Episode: 971
Title: HPR0971: /dev/random episode 00
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0971/hpr0971.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-08 05:53:13

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Hello everybody and welcome to Dev Random. With me today is Sound Chaser. Good evening everybody.
Asimuth. Good evening. At your but I'll call him E.L.O.
And one of my other favorite Aussies, Crayon. Green. I don't even know what to say to that.
I said yellow. I didn't get it either. I was really kind of confused there.
Well, the obvious response would have been red. Yeah, true. So I come up out. I chucked on the question.
No, not you. Pegwall. Pegwall should have said red.
And I also should have said, hi, I'm Pegwall.
Wait, why red? Like green and yellow I get, but why red?
Stoplights. Red.
Oh, duh. Because red rover, red rover, I do. You come over and go through immigration.
In Australia, in Australia, all that lights are white.
Out traffic lights are white. Just three white lights.
I have no idea why that's funny.
Because you know, anytime you say anything against Australia, they laugh. It's easy.
Oh, okay. I'm just going for the low hanging fruit in these.
Yeah, yep. Well, we go for the walking fruit and all the shows.
That's very, very funny.
Well, we're off to a great start.
Well, we're just going to go back and put all the stuff we said earlier after the intro, right?
Maybe we'll put it at the end.
You mean the stuff we haven't said yet, right?
Exactly.
Here's what we'll do.
We'll record the entire episode. Then I'll reverse it.
So everything is spoken backwards. Then upload it to HPR.
And just call it DevRandom, the Aussie version.
Yeah, you're going to, you're going to play it backwards. Is that correct?
Yeah, it's going to say polish dad or what here?
You can call it cat DevRandom pot revs.
I mean, if you really want to put a subliminal message in and I'll tack one on somewhere.
This is all pretty subliminal anyway.
Well, subconscious maybe. What about subliminal unconscious maybe?
Yeah.
So, yes, sir.
What's our first story for the night?
I'm glad you asked SoundChaser.
How do you feel about the year, I think 2007?
Well, it was about five years ago, so it weighs back.
Why? What's important about 2007?
I think it was 2007 or might have been 2005, something like that.
The last release of window maker before this previous one.
Yes, window maker has finally updated in the year 2012,
which means we're all going to die at the end of this year.
Wow. So what's new in window maker now?
Can I just say how happy I am because I mean, first we get ed and ed update just recently.
And now window maker, this is, you know, it's a dream come true.
It's definitely a side of the apocalypse, isn't it?
This truly is the year of a Linux desktop.
Now we need a new version of yes or something, you know.
Actually, there's a new version of awk.
Well, that's sort of, that's reasonable.
It does some pretty, pretty advanced things.
I reckon a new version of yes now with more wise.
A new version of cat now with a more efficient file reading algorithm.
No, that's not reasonable.
Is it though, really?
I mean, how fast can you print to a terminal?
Well, so let me ask this.
I was kind of, it's kind of interesting tie into the story because recently I've been thinking about going ahead and actually trying to work with FVWM,
which believe it or not is actually still under active development.
But the reason I was thinking about using it or at least playing with it is when I've been looking over some of the documentation on it,
it actually exposes a number of the X server, not necessarily the APIs, but the internals of the X server to the window manager,
which is as much closer tied to the X server as opposed to newer window managers like open box and all these newer ones,
which actually kind of basically gloss over the X server and actually provide a different interface to the window manager.
Does anybody else ever thought about digging into some of these older like window managers or other tools to actually look at some of the what they expose and actually try to understand the system a little bit more.
Actually, the friend of mine at work, she actually runs FVWM as her window manager.
Really, she likes it that much.
Yeah, she says she likes the fact that I mean, I've heard it described as to configure it, you basically have to write code or script at least.
But that seems interesting enough.
I mean, I personally have modified, I use fluxbox and I've modified the source code of fluxbox when necessary to do what I want it to do.
See what I was looking at.
I was just going to say, yeah, fluxbox does do pretty much everything I want it to do.
I've never found anything lacking from it.
Yeah, and I've noticed that I mean, you know, the newer window managers tend to actually do everything that you want them to do.
But what I noticed when I was looking at like FVWM is that I don't know if you ever looked at like the X resources database stuff.
There's a lot of things you can actually set in the X resources database.
Well, FVWM actually kind of builds that into its configuration.
So you can actually basically like assign things to windows to actually like theme them and that straight in the FVWM configuration.
Which you really can't do in a lot of these other, in a lot of these newer window managers because they're all unified and using like an XML configuration or something.
And they only expose certain amount of the X server stuff to allow you to configure them.
I myself, I'm a GNOME 3 man.
I'm sorry.
Hey, I find it really easy to see, so I enjoy it.
I've been spending about a week with GNOME 3 and I can't say that I like it at all.
And just too many things about it that just don't work well for me.
This is going to be very embarrassing, but I still haven't worked out how to shut down Fedora without using the terminal.
You hold the all key, dude.
I know a bunch of people said that.
Like like FABs on Linux Outlaws raving about how wonderful GNOME 3 and Fedora is and how it's stupid that you have to press Alt to shut down.
I don't know, I'm pressing Alt and I'm opening menus and I don't see anything.
I'm just like, okay, terminal, shut down, dash H now.
You know, I'm running Seb I on here and way I found to shut it down was actually exit GNOME 3.
And then from the login screen, there's actually a power off.
So I can actually shut it all the way down then.
Oh, that's even worse.
I think the idea is that it's that good.
You shouldn't want to shut it down.
What you have to do is click on your name in the upper right hand corner.
And the little drop down menu comes down there.
You'll see an option that says to log out and suspend and all that.
If you hit the alt key, the suspend will turn into power off.
So what percentage of Fedora's user base think that's stupid?
I don't really mind it.
Well, I honestly, I found that stupid and not intuitive.
That's probably my biggest problem with GNOME 3.
It's how many things are not easily discoverable in it.
It's like they tried to make it like more efficient.
But in doing so, they hid things that you can't find unless you already know how to find them.
But that's actually the history of the GNOME project.
They've been doing that all through the two series and now they're doing it still more in the three series.
But I actually knew how to use two.
We'd already gone through the find the hidden feature phase.
And now we have to go back through it all over again.
Yep.
But that's part of the fun.
It makes me sad, Eggie.
Clearly you were doing it wrong.
Absolutely.
It doesn't make me sad. It irritates me, but it does.
But I'm happy because basically, as of tonight, this is the end of my one week experiment with GNOME 3.
In Sabayon.
Sabayon.
And tomorrow, I will load the KDE version of Sabayon on my laptop.
See how that fares.
Oh, take on why?
Primarily because I haven't really played with GNOME and KDE for over a year at this point.
You know, some, basically, probably several years.
So I decided what I would do is I would go ahead and spend one week with GNOME, one week with KDE,
and then progress one week, at least one week with XFCE, and then decide where I wanted to end up.
And arrive at Fluxbox.
Probably back to Awesome.
That's where I've been for a while now.
Or maybe FVWM.
I don't know that I've ever used Awesome.
You guys are always raving about it. I should give it a try.
Is it one of those configurable desktops, though?
Because that kind of stuff drives me crazy.
I don't want to write one thing for my desktop.
Awesome is really a pretty much a raw window manager.
But it tiles all your windows on the screen pretty much automatically.
So you can actually navigate your windows from the keyboard.
You can actually move them around in that basically all from the keyboard.
And just have the ones that you really need to have the maximum size.
So it's a completely different way of working with a desktop and with your applications.
But I find that it actually works really nicely.
And that's why I haven't used it before.
It's a tiling window manager.
Yep.
I have a 12.5 inch laptop screen.
Okay.
You could actually use it.
There's a mode where you can have one application opened like to a certain percentage of the screen.
Like maybe 50% or 75% of your screen on top.
And tell any other applications in the background.
When you rotate through them, it'll pop up one on top.
It'll have like 75% of the screen.
So you can actually focus on like one app at a time.
Couldn't I just use a regular desktop with old tap?
Yeah, sure.
I mean, you know, you can use whatever you want to.
I'm just saying there is ways to actually make it work with a smaller screen like a laptop.
I'm sorry.
I'm just thinking about it.
That's okay.
I respond to bastards.
I speak bastard.
Thank you, Cindy.
I am a bastard coated bastard with bastard filling.
Tasty.
So anyway, window manager, new release.
Window maker.
Yeah.
Window maker.
You got me off track.
All right.
All right.
How about a new piece of news?
Develop a values devian at 12.1 billion pounds.
Say what?
No, this is gold.
It is like a whole serious analysis and everything.
An analysis by devian and see pen developer James Bromberger.
I'm guessing concludes that it would cost about 19.1 billion US dollars or 12.1 billion
British pounds to develop the software currently including included in devian weezy 7.0
from scratch.
That would make actually make sense to me.
I mean, devians get one of the most extensive databases of packages out there.
So if you actually try to develop all that gold, I mean, you're talking even developing
like e-max and them and all the base of all the major window managers, the desktops,
well as the kernel and all the sporting drivers for the kernel and everything else.
That's a huge, huge base of code.
He derives the value from he assumed that all the code under devian was of a standard complexity,
which is probably not true.
But he assumed an annual salary of 72 and a half grand and then went by the 420 million
lines of code that are in devian right now.
And that's how we got the figure.
And it looks like if you considered the kernel complex instead of standard level of complexity,
the cost of writing the kernel alone would be $1.8 billion.
Good Lord.
There have been other code analysis like that, you know, just of the kernel itself and certain applications
like e-max and other programs.
Oh, sorry, I thought you were asking.
No, no, no, no.
I'm saying there have been.
And I know that some of those things have been in the tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars,
given the complexity of the code and given the number of people working on them and average salary rates
and all that stuff.
So this doesn't really surprise me that much.
Well, this article from HOnline references another analysis done last year
that concluded the kernel is worth more than $3 billion.
Yeah, that actually sounds about right.
Wow, that's crazy.
They have a cute little chart here.
It's a bar graph of all the different languages used in Debian.
And the most used language is its NCC, but they didn't put a space in it.
And I'm going, what the heck is ASNIC?
And it's gotten, you know, more than twice the lines of code that C++ has.
And I'm like, how have I never heard of this language?
And when did you become dyslexic at year?
Oh, no, the dude who made the graphic was dyslexic.
He put ASNIC instead of NCC?
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, it's NCC.
Okay.
I shut off.
Well, you're the one who said it, man.
And by the way, pay back.
Yeah.
Okay.
Where are we even?
So speaking of even, VLC has a new release.
It's a nice round, even number.
VLC 2.0 is out.
Oh, smooth, smooth, smooth.
Let's go down like that stuff.
Wow, this is hot.
VLC 2.0 is called 2 Flower.
I guess that's a working codename or release name, whatever.
Have I named off the Terry Pratchett characters or something?
That I do not know.
It's a guess because there isn't 2 Flower Terry Pratchett character.
They've added faster decoding on multiple core GPUs, new codecs for more HD stuff,
and experimental Blu-ray support, which that I think is awesome.
That sounds nice.
Also, not just the M2TS, whatever the heck they are, the actual menus and stuff as well.
No clue.
Well, I came across a Blu-ray a little while ago, and it plays the video files,
but it doesn't do the menus and stuff.
I guess they've added some more for that, that's awesome.
Do any Linux users use VLC?
I do.
What kind of question is that?
What else do you use?
The M-Player.
Oh, really?
Yeah, no, I've always used VLC.
It's like the second thing I install.
Or the, what, e-stringer core, if using, like, gnome stuff.
Or lots of other things.
I just use the command line M-Player.
In case anybody is wondering, the first thing I install is via men's stupid distras that don't include it.
At least it was E-Max.
Hey, now.
Oh, I thought I was going to cop some abuse for that.
You hey, know yourself.
Hey, E-Max is cool, man.
Only cool people use E-Max.
Oh, no.
We're devolving.
We're devolving.
We ever actually crawl up.
I guess we did for a few minutes there.
We were kind of inching out of the primordial soup and then me and Sandy kind of dragged just kicking and screaming back in.
Yeah, we worked on that one pretty hard.
They're dragging it in.
Well, rats, I'm just looking here and Sabion doesn't even have the VLC 2.0 release in their testing repository yet.
So what are people prefer it over M-Player?
Probably because it has a nice graphical front end and it's just standard to a lot of people.
It's Cosmic Girls.
I was actually going to say, I think, you know, that's one of the things that draws me towards M-Player is the nice lack of a GUI and everything.
Nice lack of the, what?
Well, there are GUI front ends to M-Player and that that do exist out there.
But you don't, you're not required to use them.
Use M-Player.
That's what's kind of nice about it is that you've got the flexibility to work either from a command line or from the GUI.
VLC has a pretty expensive one itself, doesn't it?
Yeah, I know it's got a good command line, but I don't know if it actually will work when you don't have VLC.
I don't have the XR running, which M-Player will.
M-Player can actually use what's called.
I like L-L-Cocca.
Oh, sure.
C-A-C-A.
Cocca, that's the colored one.
Of course it is.
Why wouldn't you call your software Cocca?
So there's this video, right?
Oh, I set you up with that.
That was technically my joke.
Yeah, and Peggy just stole it right out from under you.
Oh, I can't.
Don't, don't, don't.
What?
That was worth it with my line.
I was, I just figured someone had interrupt me as soon as I tried to talk, so I thought I'd react as if they were anyway.
Oh, that's very good.
So who here liked the movie Avatar?
Yes, I bloody liked Avatar, okay?
All right, I'm going to admit something here that may horrify a lot of people.
I have still not seen Avatar.
Oh, dude.
I don't know, it's something about little blue people that just keeps reminding me of the Smurfs.
They're just giant Smurfs, yeah.
They are quite substantially different from Smurfs.
I know they are.
I just had to toss that out there, see?
I got any reaction.
Oh, I see how it is.
Okay.
It's on now.
So how would you...
Go on.
Oh, I was going to say, okay, so they're blue elves instead of green elves.
And they look like Smurfs.
They look nothing like Smurfs.
He's going to start hearing it all.
He's going to start hearing it all.
He's going to start hearing it all.
I hate that.
Any time somebody compares Avatar to Pocahontas, I just want to stab them repeatedly.
No, it was more like Firm Golly, but anyway.
Oh, God.
Okay.
So how would you like to live Avatar?
Do I get one of those little tale things?
Like this wander around attaching them to the nearest woman?
If I say yes, can I continue my new story?
Yeah, I think you should, yeah.
Yeah, I'm going to continue before E.Tale mates with everybody.
I didn't know there was a word for it.
What are you trying to stick into me?
I'm sorry, it's my tale.
It's all good.
Just get back to sleep.
It's all good.
I hope we're cracking the audience up as much as we're cracking ourselves up.
So anyway.
DARPA is actually working on a project to make this kind of happen.
But instead of, you know, aliens, they're going to be using like bipedal robots.
Why wouldn't they just jump straight onto drones?
Like you can be.
Hang on, so the robots are mating.
I'm sorry, I lost the robot to kill me.
It's the start of the story.
No, see, look, we're devolving again.
Cut it out, Crayon.
Honestly, don't remember what we're going to do.
Crayon, let me spin it for you this way.
DARPA is trying to let people mate with robots without having to be in Japan.
I know, I'm sorry, not mate pair.
Because now it's a prerequisite to be in Japan to have any pets that are still going on.
Only the Japanese have Bluetooth, right?
Is that how they use the Bluetooth?
Yeah, it's pairing.
We see that the makers of that movie were not so clever after all.
I don't know that anyone he ever gave James Cameron much credit for being a clever man.
I think he was just sitting around one day going, what's the opposite of tooth?
Tail.
Yeah, we'll make him connect with tails.
Bluetooth.
No, it's like usually the organs in the front.
Let's put it in the back.
So, Peggy, what else was there to the story?
Basically, it's going to allow soldiers to pair with bipedal autonomous machines.
That's what they said.
I say robots because controlling your own terminator cyborg would be awesome.
That's what I'm hoping for.
That's what I keep saying.
They're not terribly autonomous if you're pairing with them, right?
Well, they're semi-autonomous.
Can you send them out to get milk then?
Is this the idea of extending the drone concept into a robotic range?
Do you think this kind of is?
I think it's more of a way to fight wars without losing a lot of people.
Which is basically what the drone technology does.
It allows them to run reconnaissance missions and some air strikes in that using unmanned aircraft.
Now it's something they're trying to have ground troops in robotic form that do the same thing.
That's what I'm saying.
Why didn't they just go straight to drones with this?
Because obviously DARPA wants every ground war to look like the beginning of Terminator 2.
That is pretty cool.
Yeah, that is pretty cool.
As long as they film it, right?
Well, yeah, otherwise you're just kind of dumb.
Really, what I expect to happen with this is they're going to put it into use and then you have some nerdy little dudes somewhere.
Just instantly hack all these things and just turn them into something crazy.
Like they'll be fighting a war one minute and Rick rolling each other the next.
Well, you know, that's what I always thought with the whole security,
the fact that no one has security companies and whatever, just on a serious note,
sorry to ruin it at all, but companies out there don't care about security.
It's not something that's high on their priorities.
And you know, if you listen to Karen from, was it Karen from the software freedom law show, whatever?
And she was saying about the heart device that helps you keep rhythm, you know, with your heart.
Oh, yeah, I had that.
Yeah, and it's something that's reprogrammable.
You know, a group successfully did all sorts of modifications of it remotely.
There was no security on the device at all.
It was remotely configured sort of the, I guess the equivalent of the Bluetooth pairing code being 0000 or something.
You know, and they were able to get access to all the patient data,
social security number, all that sort of stuff.
They were able to turn it on, turn it off, make it zap, you know, make it run itself down.
And I thought to myself, you know, this is, I would joke with people saying that I can't wait until, you know,
they have more sort of, you know, mechanical arms and all that sort of stuff attached to us,
because it'll be the computer nerds that then rule the world, because we'll be able to control them.
And it's already happening now.
So it's only matter of time before, yeah, people have, you know, robotic arms that will just be able to take control of, you know, just hack into them.
And yeah, that's, I can so see that happening when it comes, comes with these fully autonomous robot things.
They're really depressing. Sorry.
I was gonna say it would really suck to, you know, finally cope with, you know, having an arm like that.
Then one day you're laying in your bed about to go to sleep and your arm just starts punching you wildly in the face.
And what it was was your neighbor just decided to mess with you one day.
Yeah, exactly.
I can think of plenty better uses for an autonomous arm in bed.
The thing that really got me about that, that pacemaker story was she, she ended up choosing a pacemaker that was like four generations old, because it was using some magnetic interface to be programmed instead of an electronic one.
And it had no inherent security either. She just figured that there was a lot less chance that somebody could screw with you with this special magnetic interface.
And if somebody could pair with your prosthetic heart with Bluetooth or something stupid.
Yeah, that's right. You had to actually have sort of physical contact or whatever, which it was funny, because she was saying that when she went in there for a checkup, you know, the doctor would sort of look puzzled at the computer screen.
Having trouble, you know, bringing up your details, because of course, again, yeah, you know, she walks into the doctor's office, he can press a key and bam, it, you know, connects downloads all the data, you know, and all that automatically because again, you know, lack of security or very lack security.
But yeah, you know, she was saying that she has to tell them that she's got this old device, you know, who seriously sits at a desk and is like, this is a great idea.
Wireless access to a pacemaker. Oh my god, we're going to make a billion dollar.
Yeah, she was saying, you know, if you're a call, she was saying too that she tried to find information she asked for the source code, you know, she was trying to get information on it.
And they got really, you know, defensive and the companies were saying that, you know, they wouldn't let us see it and they, you know, that she wasn't allowed to know even how it all worked and the technology behind it.
I thought that that was kind of funny though. That's like walking up to Microsoft and being like, I'm writing documents in Microsoft Word, I want to see the source code for this program.
Yeah, but I mean, I personally, I think that's probably the right thing anyway and that you should be able to sort of do that.
But perhaps with certain things, maybe not with Word documents, but for example, the software that runs in your car in your engine management system or something like that.
Or if you've got like intelligent braking system, I don't think it's too far to say, look, I'm using this device. I'm putting my life and others lives in the hands of this device.
I want to know what it's doing, you know, think obviously it's a, it's slightly different, but think forward to, you know, a hundred years time when you've got your robot robot babysitter.
You want to know what code is running on that thing? You want to know what it's going to do with your children when you leave them alone with it.
Is it going to, you know, swing them around and throw them out the window or whatever, you know, you want to know if your life is put into the hands of technology, you want to know what the technology is going to do.
I actually, I would say that there's more of a case for that now rather than later, because it's like out with cars and the wireless entry systems where it'll unlock your doors.
There are no cases where people have actually intercepted wireless between the, the sending unit and the receiver in the car and have actually captured the code that it actually sends to your car and they've actually stolen cars that way.
You know that as soon as someone invents a robot babysitter, someone out there is going to write shakebaby.c.
The first virus for the robot Danny.
Well, that's really though that is where it gets scary because yeah, if you, you know, if people are able to manipulate these things and if they're, you know, that is our definite, I think is a real advocate to open source and you can see governments.
You know, wanting, you know, look at some of the, some of the European governments changing to to Linux or whatever and part of the reason they always say is that they don't know what windows might be doing, you know.
The windows it might in some cases is developed by a hostile enemy of theirs, you know, so it makes sense that they want to use something that they know what's going on on the inside.
Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things to me is you really want to know if there's any kind of security implemented in these systems at all.
You know, are they actually using any kind of like public private key pairs?
Are they doing anything to actually try to secure information that's being passed back and forth in them?
That's what I would want to know.
That's actually one of the things that I liked about Sabayana is when I was watching the package manager download packages.
I could actually see that not only were all the packages GPG signed, but they actually also have Shaw 120 128 bit keys on them as well.
And their support for all the way up to Shaw 256 keys.
It's one of our biggest, you know, mistakes.
I think that we can make as humans is to assume that everyone thinks the same way that we do, you know.
And in some cases, it causes an argument because you think one way and someone else thinks another, but you just assume they're going to think the same way as you.
And this is how disagreements occur.
But when it comes with this sort of thing, I always assumed that my doctor's office would have good security.
I took that as a given that your patient data would be important and that they would do the right thing.
And that's what really annoys me when you read privacy agreements.
Every single one of them says something like we value your privacy and we're using the latest technology to protect it.
There's no specifics. No one says we're using this, we're using that.
And as you say, you know, they're not saying we're using this particular type of, you know, signing, yeah, or encryption or whatever, you know, they're not telling you how they're doing it.
And I think if they don't, you know, and I've tried contacting many of companies saying how, you know, how specifically are you protecting my data and they won't give you specifics.
It's all well, obviously, we can't tell you because that's corporate, you know, that's our own corporate information and whatever.
Yeah, because security by obscurity is our security policy.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
When I can tell you like in some of the doctors offices, I know this from some of the doctors I know that are kind of personal friends.
Some of them, they're actually stuck using software that's 10, 15 years old and there's very, very specific reasons for that.
But as far as what security is actually implemented in that software, they have no clue.
They have no idea because it's a closed proprietary product and they don't, you know, even the doctors do not know if there's anything implemented in them.
That to me is scary.
This is depressing. Near the pack.
Cabas?
Say what?
No, as wakes up.
No, he didn't say fauna multi-taxie.
I'm listening to an audio book and on a forum and I got all kinds of things happening.
But as far as you want technology gone wrong, how about the guy at the football game that had his, you know, his high school football game had his car broke into.
They stole his GPS and he's a garage door opener.
When he gets home, he found out that they'd opened his garage door back to Van N and cleaned him out.
His home was set on his GPS.
Yep. And well, actually, it had their directions from the last place that he went from and to.
But you can actually play that backwards.
So they just follow the GPS route back to his house.
Oh, Jesus.
Oh, that sucks.
But you know what?
That actually tells you that there is a smarter class of criminal out there now.
That's actually pretty astonishing.
Well, are they a smarter class of criminal?
Or are they just two guys who wanted to rip somebody off and happened to know how in this particular instance?
I don't like that's that's a pretty low hanging fruit.
If you were like a career criminal, surely you wouldn't be running around trying to snitch people's GPS and garage door opener.
I think actually you have to pray plan for that because otherwise what are you going to do?
You can see they're breaking into car after car after car and hope you find one that has a GPS and a garage door opener.
Yeah, that's that's sort of what I meant.
I think they actually had to basically be like canvassing and they have much of this idea in mind when they started.
They must have been going like through and looking at the cars and saying we gotta find a car that's got a GPS and a car door opener or a garage door opener.
But the thing is too, that technology is something that everyone, you know, even the, you know,
a stereotypical grandmother, you know, is aware of what a GPS is by now and how they work to a slight degree, I would think.
You think so?
Yeah, your equity is where technology really starts to screw you.
Well, but something like a football game, you find a car with a GPS still hanging on a mountain window
and, you know, whether you get the garage door opener or not, it don't matter.
The GPS is going to take you to somebody's home that's not going to be there for a couple hours because they're at the football game.
Actually, how many of us have GPS's?
I have used my phone almost since I, since I have a new one GPS was, I've had it on my phone.
I've never had a standalone unit.
Yeah, I've always used my phone.
I've never had any, I've never had anything like a, like a garment or what have you.
No, I also have never had one either.
Although I think with myself, I don't know about you guys, but with myself, I find that I don't tend to adopt consumer devices
because I either get there first with something of my own or, or, um, I don't find a need for it.
Or if and when I see the consumer device, I then say, oh, well, I can solve that myself in this way.
I think I go ahead, pickle.
As I say, pretty much, and mostly I found that in all honesty, no matter where I've went in the United States,
you know, having GPS on my phone plus Google Maps plus the, uh, the Google navigation has worked out for me,
sometimes even better than a traditional GPS unit.
Oh, heck yeah, Google navigated beats the pants off of any GPS I've ever come across.
Going back to a crayon's comment, I think my thing is that when it comes to consumer grade devices like GPSs and things like that,
I just tend to maintain a very healthy skepticism about them until they've been out for five or 10 years.
I, you know, like I do have GPS on my phone, but I actually have GPS radio turned off and I only use it when I actually need to get someplace.
Mainly because I don't want people actually knowing where I am most of the time.
I don't want to be tracked.
Oh, yeah, I've never turned them off.
Yeah, mine is off all the time.
I don't.
I don't.
You're supposed to.
Sorry.
Yeah, I wouldn't use your Google Maps for that reason.
I've got, um, open street map maps that I've got pre-rendered on my device.
And so I just, I do all of it offline.
Oh, really?
I've, I kind of figured that as with everything else in this country, we wouldn't have open street maps.
No, the open street maps are actually from my experience around Melbourne at least.
Um, in some cases, they're a lot better than than Google Maps, for example.
Is there an app for that?
I don't know.
I, I've got an 900 and yeah, I just download them to any of the mapping applications that I want to use.
Actually, there's an Android app.
Android Hader.
Android Hader.
Yeah, there probably is an Android app though.
Check, uh, check F-Droid or whatever.
There probably is one.
There is actually an open street map app in the, uh, Android marketplace.
I searched for open street map.
I get street view on Google Maps and Google Maps.
Okay, there used to be.
Oh, it's like street map one word.
So since we're being a little, um, we're talking more about, uh, Android applications and stuff like that,
I've kind of talked about it from time to time that I've been trying to get away from Google as much as I can,
even though I have an Android phone.
And I think I've actually now found a way to do it and actually in like one shot.
And the irony is the way I found this came out of a, a report of a problem on H online.
Um, basically there's a, I don't know, people are familiar with it.
Is anybody here familiar with the Horde?
The Horde?
The Horde H-O-R-D-E.
It's being stupid.
I'm sorry.
The Horde is actually a really, um, probably one of the oldest web-based groupware products out there.
It's completely open source.
And they also have a, a web mail edition of their system.
And I've used it about now.
Yes.
Yeah.
I've used this.
I installed it on a system.
Yeah.
Um, well, apparently recently it was discovered that the 3.2.2 version had actually been hacked on their source code repository and a backdoor installed.
So if you're actually running that version, you want to actually get the latest update to that version to remove that backdoor.
Um, but the version four, which is, I guess coming out or is out now, is actually in a different repository.
It wasn't affected by that hack.
But the thing that I found that was very interesting is they are actually developing an Android app or version four of Horde, which will therefore give you your email and address book for contacts.
Um, a calendar, a to-do list and a note application.
And that will basically by using that app and having Horde installed on your own server, you just now removed all your need to have anything to do with Google.
Well, accept the market.
Yeah.
The only thing on my Android phone that involves Google is navigation and the market.
My email, everything, my notes, my calendar, all of my contacts are unsinked.
I don't use Google for anything on my phone other than those things that you either don't have a choice for or miles and miles and miles better than the alternatives.
What I thought on that was I wouldn't mind going the unsinked route, but I want to actually be able to access a lot of that information from other locations like from my tablet or from my laptop or from my desktop PC at work.
So having them someplace online is better for me, but I want it to be someplace that I actually have control over and I actually do my own backups and nobody else is touching.
Yeah, I'm having that exact frustration right now. I bought myself a Galaxy Tab 7.7 and basically what I did was I just did a fresh, complete titanium backup of everything that was on my phone and then restored it all to my tablet, which worked out well in the beginning.
But now every time I add a new password to keep past X or something like that, it's on one device and not on the other as a real pain in the backside.
And you have to have some way to sync between your devices and that yeah, that gets to be pain. That's something I've been in running into now for years and years and years and that was actually the draw of Google or cloud or something like that where but I really want to be able to control that stuff.
And I want it to be someplace where I can get to it from anywhere.
What about what about own cloud or whatever doesn't that have all that sort of all that sort of feature list?
I don't think it has everything. I think it primarily at this point does like file sharing and it has some apps in it like maybe a gallery and some other things, but I don't think it does like your mail and your contacts and all that stuff.
I think they're working towards that maybe does to your your contacts, but I don't think it has everything that I wanted, but I was actually I am seriously looking at that for having like access to my media and stuff from home, basically having that online someplace.
But I also didn't want here's what I also didn't want to have happen is I actually want to have a server that is out someplace on the internet has more bandwidth than when I get through my home connection.
Because I can't you know this face that I'm not going to be sitting here installing server class machines to actually keep all this information online.
Yeah, you want like in on the fly encryption to S3 or rack space or something exactly.
I don't know about S3 rack space, but I actually use like name cheap for hosting solutions and I use a virtual through them.
And I can pretty much put it whatever I want to on one of their virtuals.
Of course, I could also provide for myself that has a cheaper like a VPS solution where I actually get a dedicated machine.
I myself I keep my contacts synced to Google and all that because I flash a new ICS ROM at least once every two weeks because I like to see you know the improvements being made at the time to all these custom ROMs.
I don't want to keep having to back up and restore my contacts.
Well, and that's where the solution would actually fit in.
Peggy because then all you would need with you actually were using Horde here stuff.
All you'd have to do is download the Horde app out of the out of the market.
What device are you on Peggy?
I am on the CDMA version of the Nexus S.
Oh nice.
I'm having a real lot of trouble fighting the urge to get myself a Galaxy Nexus right now.
I got a say of the Android phones I've had.
I like it the most.
Hmm.
You like it that much huh?
I've actually got the Droid Razer and I'm liking that a whole lot.
See, I've become absolutely spoiled with the the Super AMOLED screens.
Oh, I know I went from the original Galaxy S to an Optimus 2X.
And it's just depressing how much better the Galaxy S was.
And with the Galaxy Tab now, the screen is just unbelievable.
It's a Super AMOLED Plus.
And the Optimus is, I don't even know what the Optimus is, but it's sad.
I believe it's a pen dial.
I'm also having a real lot of trouble with the size.
I play with my tablet for a couple of hours and I get used to the screen size and then I get out my phone.
And it's like, how do I use this?
Why can't I see my email list with a preview underneath it on my phone?
One thing I do like, I mean, I don't want to make this the Android fanboy show.
Too late.
But I got to say that I actually like Android 4.0.
Crayon, this is punishment for being such a hater.
Yeah, I understand.
Oh my god, is he eating two now?
I think he is.
No, I'm not. I have a wire in my mouth.
I'm playing with my little AVR chip thing.
That sounded like it was going to go someplace pretty inappropriate there for a second.
Hey, Peggy.
I had to look it up, but the Troid Razor does have a Super AMOLED screen as well.
I'm practicing being Japanese.
Anyway, I'm moving on now.
Ooh, more stories, let's see.
Speaking of phones and Android and Android hate, there's a new OpenMoco out.
Yeah, this is the first I'm hearing of it.
I have the original one.
Well, actually, I have the free runner.
So for the next five minutes, this is going to be the Peggy and Crayon show.
Because the rest of us are freedom haters.
Tell me more.
I believe it's a new free runner.
But it's to the GTA 04 and the board alone costs like $800.
Oh, that's expensive.
You say $800?
Yes, there's the upgrade board cost $873.
Or $66.66 euros.
Ouch.
I love that. That's awesome.
Slightly less excited.
Lightly less?
I guess how much the whole phone itself costs?
W over grand.
$784.00 or $981.00.
Oh, 20 bucks shy.
Actually, it's 18.
How much are phones?
What, 500 bucks or something?
That's only double.
If I bought the Galaxy Nexus, it would be $550 from Cogan.
Interestingly enough, Crayon.
If you're after a phone, apparently Cogan are doing those now.
Black guys getting his fingers and everything.
Well, I can say is yay.
But there is good news if you pay all that money for a phone.
And that news would be?
It comes with a case and a battery.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
What a value.
You should have landed that.
Does it come with a car charger and a user manual, too?
No, it doesn't come with any of that stuff.
You don't want to actually give up the secondary market on that.
Oh, that's disappointing.
It's the case pre-installed.
Yes, and you can also tell me with this.
And you can fist bump with NFC, too, if you want.
Actually, that's not as good a deal as my free runner came with two batteries and a case.
So they're actually getting worse.
The extras have been slimmed down to cut costs.
Yes, now there's less extras and it costs double.
Oh, I prefer to look on the on the bright side.
Perhaps they're trying to imply that the battery life is so good.
You're only going to need the one.
Honestly, perhaps they're also trying to imply that their direct market is CEOs of Fortune 500 companies.
Or they're just they're just implying that their direct market at this point is smaller and therefore need to actually raise more funds through the sales of the phones.
Which actually, to me, that's actually kind of an admirable goal.
I mean, if they really want to succeed with an open platform, at least they're doing it by trying to put it out there and trying to spark interest in a certain range of our general group.
Are you shut up, Sandy?
Now you're making us all feel bad for ragging on it.
I don't feel bad.
Hey, you know, I like to call things as I see it.
I mean, it's just like that new tablet.
I mean, that personally want to run plasma on a tablet.
But I will certainly support the fact that it's out there and that people are going to buy it and I actually want to see that succeed.
Do you just making it worse?
Okay.
As I said, it's maybe the high point of the show, I think, for some people.
I have one more story than Sound Chaser, we will get to you.
Okay.
This last one is an ethical hacker was jailed for discovering Facebook vulnerabilities.
I don't understand why anybody puts their name to this stuff.
Like, hasn't anybody learned from anonymous?
Those guys are anonymous and they're still getting arrested and thrown in jail.
Wouldn't we just create a pseudonym that we only ever use through tour or something like that and deal with it that way?
Well, what this guy did, hang on, let me find his name real quick.
George Hutz.
Glenn Mangum.
He is 26 of Collins.
Where is that?
Collins rode to York, UK.
He actually got into their servers downloaded the source code for everything that they do and put it on an external drive and, you know,
peruse the written and look for vulnerabilities.
And then when he brought it up, you know, and said, hey, Facebook, I found some vulnerabilities in your code and, you know,
had access to your servers for a minute there.
They sued him as well they should.
Oh, yeah, that's.
Well, well, well, well, well, well, he tried while he tried to do the ethical thing by actually trying to help them.
He actually broke the law by actually gaining unlawful access to their servers.
Still, where's the Facebook source code on a torrent site somewhere?
Anybody?
Links, anybody?
Links?
No, links.
Well, see, he also did this at an earlier point with Yahoo.
And Yahoo, you know, actually said, hey, thank you.
And they paid him $7,000.
Whereas Facebook sued him for like, I think it was about $180,000.
So, I guess the first time around he got paid and thought, hey, this isn't a bad deal, yeah.
That's a good point.
And while I would agree that Yahoo have kind of taken the high road there,
Crayon also has a very good point that, you know, give an inch and they'll take a mile.
But Facebook still kind of had the right to do that.
That's not a great way to go about security, I wouldn't think.
Yeah, I mean, I appreciate the guy for actually taking the high road and saying, you know,
hey, Facebook, we hear some problems, hear some things you can fix.
And I would say, look at that as his intentions were good.
And that should actually play into any lawsuit because obviously he wasn't malicious about this.
It sounds like he didn't pass the code on or anything like that.
On the other hand, that act of gaining access to the servers without any permission to, that's just wrong.
Yeah, like what are we going to do?
We're going to keep paying him over and over again to break into people's systems,
steal their source code and find a couple of vulnerabilities for them.
Well, you see, there are people who actually do stuff like that,
but they actually have an agreement with the company first that they are allowed to go ahead and try to break in.
And if he had done that, if he had taken that route, then he would have the total high road on this whole thing.
Yeah, they're called penetration testers.
But I bet you anything when Facebook runs a pen test, if Facebook ever runs a pen test that's not in house,
they don't say, hey, have free reign of any public facing server we have.
And if you manage to break into the VPN, then by all means, hack any internal servers you may come across.
Yeah.
So personally, if I ran a company like that, and this guy sent me an email saying what he did,
and said, hey, there's some vulnerabilities and stuff you should fix,
I would honestly say, thank you to that guy and not sue him.
I mean, I know what he did was technically illegal, but he's still doing your company a solid, really.
Yeah, he is Peggy, but by the same token, the fact that he gained access to the servers,
and he went undetected.
What else does he have?
What other information?
That means now that like user information and stuff like that could actually be accessible to somebody,
and he may have grabbed that and he may have passed that on to another market,
you know, to a black market of some kind, and they don't know that for certain.
Even though he just went back and said, hey, here's some vulnerabilities in your code, you can fix.
I'll see another thing this guy does is he runs a tax backed security company.
Oh, geez.
Wow.
So this could very well be a PR initiative on his part.
I'm sorry, it's a tax registered security company.
But at the same time, you know, the guy runs a company and he knows what he's doing.
And he presumably knows full well the legalities that Intel.
Yeah.
Now I'm totally beffiled as to why he did this without making sure he had some kind of agreement with Facebook first.
It sounds like a shake down, doesn't it really though?
On his behalf, yeah.
Like he's trying to draw the funds for his company, and he's using some fairly underhanded methods to do it.
Well, there you go.
The reason he wasn't anonymous, as I suggested, is because it's great payoff in his company.
Anybody else?
Surely anybody was a threat of common sense.
If you're going to break into one of the most valuable companies on planet Earth steal their source code and then let them know about the vulnerabilities you found there in, you're going to be anonymous.
Well, the thing about this is I would think that being brought up on charges for doing this, he could actually lose his company over it.
Definitely lose any certification or any of the tax backing that he's got on it.
Yeah, Risky PR initiative.
When it used higher marketing companies somewhere.
I would want to just hire some really big, you know, tough bloke to go around and say, I think it'd be in your best interest to go with my boss's company.
That's an accident ever.
It's threat and violence, you know.
It'd be some big rush, and dude, just knocking on your go-go.
You ought to be giving me Wi-Fi password now.
Yeah.
Are you fond of your kneecaps?
Yeah.
You're open to the certificate, please, sir.
All right, break in these.
Your kneecaps know like bullets, yes?
So anyway, though, I'm not going to lie when I first read the title because it didn't mention a name.
My first thought.
And I'm sorry for this.
I consider us friends still was, oh God, what did Phoenix do?
I guess I got lost in everybody else in the room.
Phoenix is an ethical hacker.
And he's also, well, he's actually from Scotland.
If you guys ever get the chance to actually like speak with him, I suggest, especially like over a VoIP call,
you can just talk to that dude for hours. He's hilarious.
I've heard him on some other shows and I think he actually did some HPR shows a while ago.
And everything I've heard him talk about was actually fascinating.
He's absolutely brilliant.
All right, so what do you got for a sound chaser?
Oh, well, you know, kind of going back to the theme that we kind of had going at some points of some older things out here.
I found a kind of little funny story where the guy actually built a Sinclair ZX81 using Lego.
I don't know if there anybody else around here is into Lego modeling at all.
It seems to have kind of been a geek trend in the past like five years or so.
People seem to like try to recreate things using Lego and try to reproduce them faithfully.
Okay, I can't do it any longer. It's just too mean.
As in Krayon, I like rocks.
And I just like give up.
Well, as I think has said, like two words, this entire podcast.
Sorry, I was actually a why then.
Oh, Krayon was saying that.
Okay.
So I'm not as pathetic as I thought I was.
I'm just more of an asshole than Krayon.
Yeah, I just, I just was like, no, I'm walking away. That's it.
I thought we were doing the whole just stay silence of this really, really nasty pause
after everything Peggy and sound chaser said.
You know, I think the thing is, the silences aren't going to make that much of a difference
because by the time we get done with this,
we're going to pull the, uh, usually our destiny filter to kill the silences, right?
Yeah, and anybody listening to that.
And anybody listening is going to be like, well, what are they talking about?
So anyway, I just thought it was kind of a fun little story that, you know, somebody I actually tried to recreate a ZX 81 with Lego.
And that was like the only kind of fun thing I found for this week.
I think we've actually already hit my other stories with between the Horde stuff and, uh,
my question about, uh, the window manager stuff.
Oh, check this out.
Mozilla is going to start Mozilla and Opera.
Mozilla Microsoft and Opera are all planning to support CSS properties which are specific to WebKit browsers
because WebKit is now the dominant rendering engine on the Web.
Ooh, that's actually interesting.
That's actually interesting.
I have to say, I mean, I've actually kind of started to appreciate WebKit.
I mean, we were talking about some of the, uh, alternate Web browsers on DPO.
Or the kind of got mentioned because I was asked about it.
And, uh, usable is actually a WebKit-based browser.
And boy, that thing is fast.
And everything I've seen, all the WebKit rendering stuff seems to be a lot faster than, uh, the ZoolRunner stuff overall.
Like Gecko, yeah.
I must say, it is easy to appreciate the openness of WebKit.
Like, browser rendering is such, such a, an unbelievable minefield of complexity.
And, and, well, I guess just complexity.
Well, Microsoft never gotten it right.
I do, yeah.
And just to have something that's open source and so easily compiled and plug-inable and everything,
I think is a big testament to the open source community.
Yeah, well, in fact, the, the two dominant technologies between ZoolRunner, aka Gecko,
and WebKit are both open source technologies, I think speaks volumes about the open source community.
I think the Web kind of has a bit of an upper hand there, though, because the Web has always been so open to begin with.
It's kind of, it's kind of fostered openness around it.
Yeah, but we saw for a while there, around like Windows 95 and that,
Microsoft basically trying to come in and be a dominant force in the Web browser
and trying to basically take over that platform.
And I think Apple was really trying to do the same thing as well.
And I think it's a testament to the open source community that we were able to actually build back up
and actually get to a point where we actually kind of force keeping the Web open.
I didn't know that Enterprise DB had a proprietary version of Postgres.
That's not cool.
Is that just dual-accessed?
Well, it says that Enterprise DB have released Postgres plus advanced server 9.1.
I like that plus advanced. That's, that's awesome.
Which builds on the September 2011 release of Postgresql and brings features introduced to Enterprise DB's commercial addition.
If it is dual-accessed, then that's okay. If it's proprietary, then.
The question, too, is how far they actually deviate from the open source one, you know, to create that?
For example, you know, is it going to be, is it an open core thing like some products or is it just a few added features?
It really annoys me the open core ones when they take it way too far.
And it's, it's, you know, they say, oh, here's this product and it's fully open source.
Oh, but if you want to, you know, be able to restart it without having to do a rescan of the database each time that takes an hour,
then you need our special version that restarts instantly.
You know, and they, they deliberately inconvenience you to try and force you into buying the other one.
You know, it's kind of dodgy then.
Okay, looking at the, the plus, the press release on their website looks like there are, oh wait, maybe there's more than one.
Okay, there's remager features that they've added to their, their enterprise version.
Okay, Jen, downloads are available as a evaluation under a limited use license.
Yeah, and there's only three major, it's only three features that they've added to this enterprise version.
It's synchronous replication, unlogged tables, and they say improved right scalability.
Now, whatever, that's, that's all very fluffy.
I, I don't put much stock in, in features like that.
Oh, we improved this.
Oh, yeah, it works a little bit better.
Nobody's really going to notice, but it still works a little bit better.
License restrictions, customer agrees, not to a copy or use the software in any manner, except as expressly permitted by this agreement.
B, transfer cell, rent, lease, distribute, or sub-license the software.
C, use, and yeah, okay, that's proprietary.
Oh, that's annoying actually.
Yeah, that's pooping, but my SQL has been doing that for God knows how long,
and has anybody ever come across an instance of anybody using the proprietary version of mySQL anywhere?
Well, that's one of the, that's one of the way I think a lot of this stuff sort of works well,
is that if they're a huge company that, you know, can afford to dish out some decent money,
they're, you know, if you say to the mile, you can buy the, you know, mySQL awesome addition that has,
go fastest stripes and, you know, you get this special extra layer of support or whatever.
They'll do it without batting an eyelid because, you know, if they can, if they've got the money, they'll just be like,
yeah, sure, no worries, let's do it.
And then, but, you know, for you and I, we can run it free and, you know, it's, yeah, everybody wins.
Well, and, but I think the difference is, okay, I think we have to look at the difference between my SQL and Postgres.
The thing about my SQL is that it's a, well, I don't know if anybody's ever read this.
I was actually just looking at this because somebody at work was talking to us about Postgres.
One of the major differences between my SQL and Postgres is that my SQL actually has multiple database engines in it.
So it's not impossible to actually sell a version of my SQL that has a proprietary engine that they don't release a source code for,
which would be completely different though from having something like Postgres,
which is actually got features that are being basically taken out of the version that they're putting out for general usage.
Right. So because my SQL is like an API with a backend Postgres is a holistic product.
So if they start proprietaryizing chunks of that with screwed, whereas with my SQL, you just pick a different backend.
There's different modules basically. So the 10 or 15 modules that are out there now, you know, we see what they call an engine for databases.
We'll always price day out there because they're under GPL or whatever.
Yeah, I think they do. I think they're even under different licenses as it is.
Like I always use the I know DB as opposed to the my as M or whatever it is.
Because it has you can do cascading deletions and cascading creations and all sorts of cool stuff like that.
Right. Right. Exactly. And I think I think that I know DB is actually still GPL though, right?
I recall something about there was some question and bill stuff about the license.
I think it might be slightly more restrictive or something, but it's still open enough for me to use it anyway.
I've been trying to switch to Postgres ever since my SQL became the domain of Oracle, just because there's such a huge conflict of interest there.
I think it's just going to be a matter of time for Oracle to get their S word in a pile and do something about my SQL's market dominance.
Yeah, no doubt.
There is actually a fork of my SQL Maria DB. Yeah, Maria DB. Yeah.
I don't think that's not Mariah DB. That's not the one because that was actually started before Oracle bought Sun.
That was actually I know what you're talking about because that's the guy who started my SQL started Mariah DB as an offshoot.
But there was actually another group that actually forked my SQL and basically company took like I think 90% of the my SQL developers from Sun and started a whole new company.
Also, it was at the point of acquisition. They went right. Let's go within about two months.
Interesting. That's what you've got a lot about open source is that self-healing self, you know, taking care of itself kind of thing.
Oh, heck yeah. And as much as I'm not a fan of mono, that's another great example.
Yeah, I don't have much to do with that myself. Speaking of open source tablets, that sharp sharp is it? Whatever it is. Yeah, that's that things available for pre-order sort of.
Yeah, I honestly cannot wait to.
I don't want to say just buy one. I can't wait to play with one of these.
Yeah, well, that's why I thought it's exactly as well. I don't know how useful it would be, but I sort of already signed up on the pre-order list anyway.
I'm a sucker for that stuff, I guess, because that's why I, as I say, I bought the open moco as well.
And I never used it for anything. It's still sitting on the shelf, not doing anything here.
Oh, that's a shame.
Well, I tried a few times. I installed a few different distros on it and things. And while it's usable and everything else, it's not,
it's not that fast and there's still bits and bits and pieces to work out.
And then when I sort of got the, I saw the N900 and it's just, yeah, it's a fair bit more usable.
And it's got a keyboard as well, so a hardware keyboard. So I've been, I sort of, yeah, didn't end up doing much with the open moco.
Okay, just jumping back for a second. Looks like the big fork of my sequel is called drizzle.
And they just announced it on this release.
Looks like they announced last year, like in March, that they've got a GA release.
Oh, yeah, I see that.
Fode riddle.
That's someone else's idea.
They call it a lightweight fork. What the heck does that mean?
I suspect it's, you know, if nothing else, it's to try and compete with people going to SQL Lite.
I don't think it's that. I think it's because they actually kind of caught the someplace else.
They went through and they actually refactor the source code of my sequel to actually create their fork.
So they probably think they've probably cut a bunch of junk out out of the old my sequel source code base and created in creating this one.
Yeah, clean out of the cobwebs.
I love this. There's a story on read right web that I'm reading about the GA version.
And it shows you how much the world has just been tipped on its head.
They're like drizzle a lightweight version of my SQL release journal availability blah, blah, blah.
Drizzle is designed for multicore environments and cloud applications.
Unlike no SQL databases, drizzle still use structured query language.
What the hell is going on?
No SQL become the standard.
Yeah, that's that's my thing.
I mean, I keep hearing no SQL is going to be the next big thing.
But it's actually, I mean, I guess I'm hearing that a lot of these cloud systems like, you know, some of the stuff that Google's doing and the crack space in that actually are based on no SQL databases.
And they actually have to use those for scalability purposes.
Yeah, there are some benefits to be had, I'm sure.
But it's, I think it's going to be one of those things where everyone jumps to it going, oh, this is great.
And then, you know, it'll hopefully level out in the end and everyone will go back to using whatever is suitable for what they're trying to do.
Yeah, every time I hear any kind of description of something like that and it's just like cloud, cloud, cloud.
As soon as I hear the word like cloud in that manner, my brain just shuts off and I ignore the rest.
That's kind of like me too.
The concept of a cloud is so nebulous to me.
Cloud has just become a word to describe multiple machines somewhere that host your stuff in some way.
Oh, I can build a cloud here.
No, no, it doesn't have to be multiple machines either.
And it doesn't have to be somewhere else because I saw, um, cloud, like land cloud or something at 1.2.
It's like have a cloud out of a cloud in your office.
So now it means a server basically.
So now there's cloud appliances.
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like offline cloud or something, you know, of fantastic.
That's going to some of those.
Actually what it was come down to is now a cloud is really more of a set of services that are provided through a server interface.
And that's about as nebulous as it can get because it can be anything at that point.
You could have 10,000 servers behind it or you could have one server.
You could have the APIs from 10 different application suites or one and whatever you want to make of that is whatever you want to make of it.
So one of the going to rename free NAS to free cloud.
Oh no.
I have actually heard renaz brought up in conversations with cloud applications like own cloud.
I have heard people actually comparing them.
Yeah, but own cloud itself is also a bad usage of cloud.
Can we start talking about cloud now?
Well, how about this?
This is where they get the lightweight in drizzle.
MySQL has over a million lines of code.
Drizzle is under 300,000.
Whoa.
That's a major cut in the code.
That is lightweight.
Yes, sir.
Okay, so they didn't just remove the odd command here or there.
Yeah, there's some serious work being done there.
Either that or they just cut all the comments out.
It's like, oh, we just removed a few deprecated functions.
Well, you know, this is what Lee Profits was going through with the open office or code base.
They've actually cut like hundreds of thousands of lines out of that code.
Actually, possibly more than that.
And they've actually saved gigs of image space because they did things like removing duplicate icons and unused functions and unused methods and all sorts of garbage out of it.
Yeah, nothing like a good spring clang.
Well, in this case, it's a spring cleaning that spoke, you know, five years overdue.
Yeah, you know, what else is overdue?
The end of the show.
Oh, smooth, smooth, smooth, smooth.
Good night, pig wool.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night, fellas.
See you later.
Good night, crayon.
Okay, I guess that's a wrap.
Awesome.
Good show.
You're done.
We say you are.
Good night, asthma.
Good night, boys.
And if we're lucky, this show will never see the light of day.
It's better than other shows.
As speaks, I tell you what, as better not get in the credits for this show.
He actually contributed a couple of times through the show.
So he actually doesn't get credit.
He gave us the GPS story.
By that logic, we've been to credit the Mumble's server, too.
No, I'm just kidding us, really.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
We should credit on credit.
We should credit zombie circus.
Because we use the zombie circus rope to record this.
Thanks most to be.
And I was going to say we should credit months to be,
with having us do this show in the first place.
Because he refused to let us be on an episode of Zombie Seconds.
Well, this is gonna be some long credits for this episode.
Given the number of stories that came from the H online, we should probably credit them too.
Exactly, my daughter sir.
My dog.
And my story came from the register.
All of mine came from the H.
I hadn't read it in two weeks, so I was just going through the RSS feed looking at all the stories.
I mean,
money from slash dot.
Oh, you know why I didn't pick the slash dot feed?
Because the H online had like 40 mysteries and slash dot had like 250 and I was just like I can't be bothered.
All right, everybody.
We will see you on the next episode whenever we have started on one episode.
So is this called the Dev Random Show?
Is that right?
Yes, this is Dev Random.
Is it like it's it's slash dev slash random or it's just going to be Dev Random or one word?
I was going to put it as slash dev and all that.
Yes, so these are random.
Yeah.
So the URL is going to be like randompodcast.com slash dev slash random.
That's why I'm asking a busy registering domains as we speak.
I was like, I'll be damned with those people get one.
Well, I think this goes out HPR and then we can actually claim that it's a random show for whenever we have the time to actually record one.
Yeah, pretty much.
That we can be random.
It's random in every way.
You got it.
It's random and who's here?
It's random and when we record it, it's random and if it gets released.
Excellent.
All right.
Go home.
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