Episode: 1677
Title: HPR1677: 2014-2015 New Year Show Part 4 of 8
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1677/hpr1677.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 07:14:06

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This is HPR episode 1677 entitled New Year Show Part 4 on 8.
It is hosted by HPR volunteers and in about 334 minutes long.
The summer is New Year Show Part 4 on 8.22 Nero Nero to Nero 30 UTC.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by an honesthost.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HPR15.
That's HPR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at An Honesthost.com.
Happy New Year to it is now 2200 hours UTC.
Happy New Year to Greece, Cairo, Ankara, Athens and Bucharest.
I'm finishing it.
OK, carry on, thank you.
10 more to say is that right to relay mumble.
Where was the name snow?
There's no snow around Europe apparently in the popular holiday destination.
Said there's nothing in the Alps, Austria.
So I understand, but I don't go skiing so I don't know.
Well, I think I had some travel skiing issues in the Alps, weeks and a half, but yeah,
it's playing on much time to see it.
Quick test, do I sound OK or am I too loud?
I sound gorgeous.
Do I sound OK?
I don't know.
I have to reload.
You sort of normal.
I just had to go fuzz with pulse again, so I want to make sure I didn't mess up my
microphone.
You guys are just tangerines.
Don't tinker.
You're overthinkers.
You just overthink everything.
Don't tinker at all.
No, I had to because when I switched headphones, for some reason my audio level dropped on my
new headphones.
So I had to actually adjust it.
I might see it.
Hopefully I'm not sounding too bad, gentlemen.
I'm on an Android phone.
Android.
Android.
Android snowing pressure on mumble with the everyone like talks at once.
So how's it going gentlemen?
It's been a long time since I've talked to a few of you.
OK.
How's it going?
It's not going well.
The limits can keep us here.
I'm doing fine.
It's OK.
Not bad here.
I'm doing pretty good.
Good to hear folks.
I mean, after the last year I've had, you know, I'm kind of really looking forward to bringing
in the new year and hoping it's a lot better than this last year's been for me.
I've had terrible year and line this year like I've just been attacked at your return.
I think it's horrible.
Conflict.
It's people in line and you just get crucified.
I've just felt discovered that much.
Yeah.
Marcus, we need to discuss your posting frequency, bud.
And Marcus, I'll tell you from what I've seen of your videos, it's the way you approach
things that it would seem to me that get you attacked a lot.
You come off very inflammatory with a lot of your comments instead of just stating facts.
I just can't ignore, like, people don't realise what's happened behind the scenes.
It's the thing.
I think you're attacked by a certain group and it does get quite difficult doing your videos
because you just get attacked all the time.
It's like every single post is someone attacking you from that group.
Like, what do you do?
Guys, I'm going to go do the family thing.
I'll talk to you later.
Have a nice one.
What do you do?
I run into you again.
All right.
See you later, guys.
Yeah, I think that's probably the right approach to take.
I'm not around trying to take them on, but didn't really work too well.
But you probably should just ignore them.
I'm saying that, though, I mean, looking at the gaming community, they seem to be a lot
worse than a lot of community with the hacking stuff going on with the PlayStation and Xbox
and stuff.
Any fireworks here?
Sorry.
Any fireworks here?
But it's in there two hours.
We'll just come there.
How's the photography been going for you, Peg Wolf?
Pretty good.
Pretty good.
Any new gear besides that lighting I heard about some time earlier in the year you bought?
Not really.
No.
I'm sorry.
I'm just, I'm just not that exciting here as of recent.
So I'm doing a course of research.
She's going to have some photography part of stuff in there.
So I'm going to wait about that next six months.
A photography man.
And I had a question for you based upon an earlier conversation that was in the IRC, if I'm
not mistaken, you're talking to, um, you would rich.
What's his name?
Uh, was it Dave Whittle?
Was that any, Dave Whittman?
Dave Whittman, yeah.
And it, it, when I had asked for you guys for advice, um, for a friend regarding buying a
camera.
And it seems to me, I'm, I'm just curious about this because I am absolutely no way at all
up on, on photography and cameras and stuff.
But it seems to me that about 10 years ago before the, uh,
having a digital camera is that there was a very huge range of cameras.
You could go out and, and you could get a camera and a happy meal.
Like a cheap 110 camera and a happy meal, or you could go out by like a mid-range camera
all the way up to like the high-end professional stuff.
You could, you know, tens dollars, thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars,
everything in between.
Now it seems like you have two choices.
The camera in your phone, or you're going to go out and spend a ton of money on a, uh,
a fairly professional camera.
Has the advent of, or the ubiquity of phones and cameras essentially ruined the
low-end mid-range market?
I'm going to say no.
Um, you can go out and get like a Sony A5000, which is a nice little mirrorless camera for
about, um, 230 bucks or so.
And it is, by, by specs and everything, it's a pretty fantastic camera.
But it would be considered a low-to-mid-range sort of thing.
Um, as far as like the absolute like bargain basement kind of like little,
little tiny cameras, you know, you just buy them and they take like two AA batteries or whatever.
Um, I think those are, I don't want to say slowly,
going away, but, uh, for some crowds they are, but for some other crowds,
there's always going to be that need for them.
Like, you know, like someone's mom or grandma, they're always going to go,
oh, well, let me go get my camera, you know, they're going to have the little useful camera
that they just leave in like auto mode and don't really worry about it.
Having just purchased a camera this Christmas past Christmas season,
uh, I was looking at anything and everything.
There's a very large mid-range market out there down, extremely large.
It's quite confusing when you don't know what you're buying.
I'm affluent.
I consulted a blind man.
That would be fine.
So what is, what is the mid-range market?
I mean, it's because again, I don't know what the prices were like 10 years ago
on 35 millimeter cameras.
And so I'm just curious, like, what is considered mid-range market?
Because you're starting to $200.
That still seems a little pricey to me, but not, and again,
not just talking about quality.
Obviously, well, I don't know, but what is considered mid-range?
Well, mid-range for me is in between 150 bucks and 250 bucks.
That's mid-range for me.
Mid-range varies from person to person.
It depends on how big your wallet is.
And how much you want to spend.
But for me, that's where mid-range is.
It's a hundred bucks in between a 150 and 250.
Anything under 150 is cheap.
Anything over 150 is expensive.
And specs that I look for in a mid-range camera used to be around 12 megapixels.
But that's chip in the garbage now.
Well, gentlemen, I need to run for now.
Good catch up with you, and maybe I'll be back a little later tonight.
We'll see you soon, Lorddy.
Bye, everyone.
Gardening cameras on phones.
And I noticed my wife told her I found six plus.
She just a month, a bad man to go.
I actually got four years.
But I noticed the camera's quite good on that.
And that's quite short with the fact that she was taking.
Did it take a picture with a real camera and then put those side by side?
See, I don't see the difference.
I'm not really a...
I can tell that I'm a happy person.
It's hard to tell which is what you have to have a life for it, like a microphone, like ease.
Just go find a bird and take a picture of it with your camera and take a picture of it with your phone.
And you'll see the difference.
Isn't that known to what your final output of the picture is going to be?
I mean, if you're going to blow it up into something quite a decent size,
and plumb to out, you'll get it developed.
Surely you'll see the detail.
But if you're just using it as a Facebook post or something like that,
you know, it's a JPEG compressed anyway.
You're not really noticing the difference.
Yeah, probably.
And I'll first work it back.
I'm not back.
I'm just a figment of your imagination.
So getting back to Dan's question.
You know, I see Ken.
I was just looking over at Tiger Direct right now and looking to see what was like low range cameras.
And I'm seeing cameras that are around 75 bucks or so.
That I mean, they're like point and click type digital cameras.
So there are cameras out there that are not very expensive.
It all depends on what your needs are.
So what are your needs, Dan?
Soundy, that wasn't a question directed to me.
Was it?
Die.
No, it was just a commentary trying to actually answer part of your question.
Okay.
I'm sorry, I got interrupted by real life over here.
Oh no worries.
Let us know when you get back from real life.
Man, all Dusty's going to really shorten this hour, isn't it?
Yeah, and that's been that much.
Have safer.
Oh, that's the auto remove sales plan.
Yeah.
Yeah, I found with that, when I was doing Cliven's, I'd go in and do that.
And just sometimes it would just mess up.
And then I thought, you know what?
I don't know why it's doing it.
But I'm going to have to go in and manually.
I just got so used to it would screw up and be so many times.
And I thought, you know what?
It's not even worth a hassle trying it.
And then I'm doing it and stuff.
So I just got used to it manually cutting it myself.
I've never done it before.
So if that happens to me, there will probably be a lot of silets in my copies.
Yeah, I think Dusty, for me, has been one of those where when it works, it works brilliantly.
And then just for some reason, I don't want to make an update or something.
And it just does really odd things and all the things that I want to try and do with it.
I don't ask much of it.
But what I do ask, does it seem you want to do it?
So, yeah.
I can sit there.
I can minmax your audio encoder.
I can tell you about a bunch of different code acts.
And what's the best one to listen to?
And which one's going to use the most CPU based on what bitrate you're running it out?
And when it comes to editing audio, epic fail.
Isn't that the whole point of a Dusty as to edit audio?
Yeah.
Yeah, my point was I'm not too good at editing audio, but I'm pretty good at encoding it.
Well, anyway, topic idea and topic discussion idea.
Anyone get any productions for what type of technology we're going to see?
And I'll take it all on 2015.
Yeah.
Well, I guess so.
First of all, there is going to be a Jail of Tablet.
Come out in May.
I believe that's coming out.
I did the crowdfunding thing.
So I'm getting one of those.
Getting my Jail of Foam scene, which I could have already if I'd done it earlier with the code.
And the event is probably coming out as well in February.
Well, this has on the internet anyway.
Can you say it but to again?
Why?
Why do you want me to say that nicely?
Yeah, bun to you, fam.
Thank you.
What do you want me to say again?
It doesn't say it funnier than me.
I still think we should have called it in Bongo.
And then they could have used the old Eats and the Advilch, the Bongo, Bongo.
Okay, that one fell for it.
Earlier, we've gone something actually.
Windows 10, so not Windows 9 because of weather, but Windows 10 should be coming out next year as well.
With some of the features copied from Linux or apparently, well, desktop Linux, you know, the interface stuff.
Oh, that remains me.
You can see the data call, the news that Microsoft are apparently making a new browser.
It's nothing to do with an explorer.
And it looks, well, the rumors are that it might well be cross-platform.
I didn't see the article, but somebody said in the old class planet channel earlier about that.
And you see that?
Yeah, the impression I got was they've almost sort of given up trying to force IE on people.
That there's been enough change in people's behavior.
That they've given up.
They've not given up.
But sort of almost given up trying to make it a lock-in thing.
And there's hardly started competing in merit.
And I need not compete in merit.
So they're having to do something.
They don't really want to do.
Maybe I'll be using WebKit or Gecko or something on the backend, even.
And also Microsoft's changed a bit with the new CAO and so on.
So that might make sense, actually.
Have a new browser as well.
Which would be better for their backend WebKit or Gecko.
I don't know.
But Apple went with...
Well, Keisha...
No, they had Safari based on Keisha now.
And then they did.
Google loves your WebKit and Chrome.
But Gecko is good as well.
But I think it's bleeding a bit old already.
I don't really know that much about rendering engines anyway.
As far as I understand it, almost every browser with the exception of Firefox and IE
are all WebKit based.
It doesn't make you wonder though, if they are changing the backend,
as you say, they might be changing the engine as well,
are they changing all the various hooks inside them on the Explorer?
Because I mean, people have built websites optimized for IE and locked into IE.
And then Microsoft say, right, this is a new browser.
Use that and it's not compatible.
It doesn't render really well or something.
That's not going to cause them problems.
No, maybe not fully.
They're doing two browsers.
So they can have instant Explorer with the old stuff.
And then they can do something more standard compliant with this new browser.
Now that would make sense, actually,
because they're doing too much with instant Explorer.
It will be getting complicated probably anyway.
They can't take out Internet Explorer because if they do that,
then that ruins all of their network settings.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
IE has been deeply ingrained for so long.
It's going to be tough for them to change that.
And as far as I've read, well, the rumor anyway,
was that this new browser, whatever it's called,
is going to be the default and Windows 10,
which doesn't make you question what they're doing with IE.
Maybe IE will be coming a bit like,
well, not really the same, but I was the old Amazon Explorer
and I think it was XP as well.
I'm not kind of disappeared.
But yeah, they did do that.
Yeah, on a more cynical note, what's the betting?
Excuse me.
What's the betting?
We'll be sitting here next year on the HPR New Year special,
saying, well, we might see a little bit before next year.
They said they're going to release it.
Well, it might be about the abundant tablet next year,
like install, actually,
that there was going to be one, an official one.
Oh, that was the other bit of Microsoft user.
I knew there was something that I thought I'd do when I brought that up.
There was also another story about them
realizing with Windows Phone that it's not going to be competitive.
It was just the platform's iOS and Android that is far too big
and I'm not competing.
So the solution is reluctantly to give in
and make Android make it compatible with Android apps.
Well, that's what Julia does, I think.
I mean, the operating system is different,
but it is compatible with Android apps.
Yeah, I think that they're finding, I think Microsoft are finding
that as far as being appealing to consumers,
if the apps aren't there that people want to use,
they'll know where to buy the phones.
And if nobody's buying the phones,
developers are going to treat it as a third rate platform best.
And the apps won't be there.
And they've already tried sort of throwing money at developers
to get apps made for it.
And apparently a lot of the apps that are made aren't all that great.
So that's kind of, it's going under the inevitable
that you've got to work with Android.
Yeah, you have to have the apps that people want,
otherwise the average person is not going to go
for that other operating system.
Simple as that already.
They don't want the apps.
They can really care about the operating system,
that much in fact.
Anyone here about what harm to the Nokia Android for?
I thought Nokia was pretty much in bed with Microsoft there.
No, I think they are.
They are.
But they actually, they announced or they were,
I don't know whether they were going to release
or they have released or something.
It was an Android phone where the UI looked like Windows.
It looked like Windows phone, but it was Android.
And apparently they were releasing it in two or three countries
at something like Japan and South Africa or something like that.
And they weren't releasing it anywhere else.
I've just wondered if that was actually the least of what harm to them.
It might have been or it might,
they might do something like that if not.
Because like you said,
Android Windows phone doesn't resell and so on.
Oh, please.
It makes sense to do that really.
And there's a new Microsoft anyway.
I know Microsoft are kind of upset that phone retailers
where sales people and phone retailers
weren't given any attention to Windows phone.
No, when someone comes in for their phones
or what you got,
the Windows phones always getting overlooked.
They're often Android and they're offering you Apple.
And Microsoft are a bit kind of hot over there.
You can understand it.
If they're looking to make a sale at the end of the day.
And if the product just isn't all that compelling,
the platform isn't that compelling,
the salesperson is normally raised up down trying to sell it.
Now we're going to try and sell what they like.
Yeah, that's true,
but that's also an inertia thing as well.
The more people that have already invested in one platform,
whether it's Android or Apple,
they're going to try to sell that one.
And if you've got an entire sales force
and the split is pretty much 50-50,
one of the other,
then that's what they're going to try to sell you.
And that's what they're going to,
because that's what they know the best.
And they know the features of and stuff like that.
So they're going to overlook anything that's
kind of unusual that comes in like a Windows phone,
or like Joe,
or a good two,
or whatever.
They're going to get overlooked.
And people are going to offer you Android
and offer you iOS, you know.
If you get Blackberry.
Yeah, I think the world forgot Blackberry.
I wonder if that's a comparison with trying to sell Linux
in a Windows and Apple-dominated world,
where you know yourself as a Linux user,
what it can do, you know how easy it is to use,
and so on.
And you try to show someone who's used to Windows,
and used their Apple.
And it's just not, you know,
going to run all my apps on it and know you can't.
But we've got these similar things,
and that's more the way they're the same, you know.
Is this platform that only a minority have heard of,
and a minority are trying to,
are enthusiastic about,
and the majority have never even heard of it,
and I'm buying you computer.
What can you have?
Well, we've got all these Windows machines here, you know.
I'm just wondering if there are any parallels there.
Actually, Linux is not so unheard of anymore.
Most,
I'm finding that more and more people that I talk to
have heard about Linux,
and a lot of people have even used Linux on something,
and know that it was Linux.
Then they either like it,
it's okay,
or it doesn't do what I want it to do.
I was going to say,
that's the other caveat as well,
is knowing that it's Linux.
There's so many people,
they're like,
come with us,
or they like Android,
but they have no idea that it's Linux.
Well, I tell people,
when I go to class,
tell folks that I use Linux,
and they're like,
oh yeah, I've played with Linux before,
or my mom has that on her computer,
and stuff like that.
I get a lot of it,
it doesn't run iTunes.
And the sponge really shouldn't be all that's by design,
but that's no other one to hear.
Especially engineer buffering system design,
not to run iTunes.
My humble opinion,
there should be a way for you to purchase all of the rights
and binary blobs,
and everything can make all that crap work,
and then people that actually want it to work
can get the free Linux distribution,
and then go buy all the licenses,
and then pay the yearly royalty fees,
and all the crap that goes with it.
Well, that has to be deals done for you,
but not to get to make it so that you can just buy all the stuff.
And obviously there's not,
yeah, the company's actually home,
there's things they really can for the moment, I guess.
Yeah.
Well, anything involved in Apple,
I mean, Apple and they can money hand over first,
treating people like Doc,
so, you know, they've got people exactly who they want them,
they've got developers begging,
and jumping over backwards to get into the iTunes store,
but it doesn't matter how badly they've treated,
they'll still jump up and down backwards to get into the store,
people will still line up round the block on the lease day
to buy a new iPod or iPhone or whatever.
It doesn't,
as well as paying through the nose for it,
Apple have got that well and truly nailed down,
so they're not going anywhere.
They did a fantastic job with marketing.
If anybody ever needs to go take a marketing class,
I hope they take it from somebody that did the marketing for Apple.
Yeah, I think I agree, I think it's pretty good.
I mean, you think about how powerful they are.
Most people don't see Apple as a bad company that uses your products.
If you use signing on the other hand,
most people are aware of what signing you're liking the background.
I think Apple do have a very good mind skills.
Well, I mean, I don't like Apple,
I don't like the product,
I don't like the heavily proprietary nature of what they do,
I don't like it a lot about Apple.
Having said that,
you really have to admire them
for when the whole race to the bottom price-wise
was starting to hit the rest of the PC industry
and everyone's trying to undercut each other
and we'll go $10 cheaper and we'll go $50 cheaper.
Everyone's going cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.
Apple refused to even play that game,
they just said,
now we feel we've got a premium product.
We're going to keep our prices exactly the way they are.
We'll lose people who don't want to spend that money,
tough, we don't care.
We'll realize happily sit
at the premium end of the market
with people with that kind of money
who want what we consider to be a quality product
and they'll want to pay for it
and we'll accept the fact
that we've got a tiny market share
but we've got mega profits
that they sell compared to, you know,
barely scraping a profit selling a device
to the lower end of the market.
Yeah, I agree.
I think they do it really well for their market.
I mean, I'm someone,
I mean, I've got my wife's for recent,
she put her six plus,
I mean, my wife, I'm spending,
they're hugely expensive here in New Zealand.
Everyone's only really buying Apple products here.
It's like, you get a phone, you get an iPhone.
So they've got the market
so they can pretty much charge what they like.
The thing is this,
the thing is this sort of two sides to this.
One is the idea that people generally think
if something is expensive enough,
they think basically all the more expensive,
the better it is,
that's what generally people think.
Well, a lot of things.
So that's one of the points.
The other point is that the average person
doesn't really know about what choice is actually out there
and they don't really care enough to look themselves.
So all in there is sort of windows,
well, windows phone with looking phones.
Okay, windows phone,
they might, they'll know they probably is,
but Android, Android,
and, well, BlackBerry's kind of disappeared,
like this sort of web,
sort of thing earlier.
So, you know, they really know the options,
doesn't it?
There's this thing like a Jolo
or there's a thing called a Bunt New Phone
that's supposed to be coming out.
They don't know about that.
And so,
and they might have had bad experience of windows
on, as a third point, on the computer.
So another reason they might be like,
oh, I don't want windows phone.
So, you know, without the choices,
they're going to go for the more expensive,
or not not everyone,
but some people are going to think,
oh, well, it's more expensive.
So, it's going to be better.
And then,
if all their friends have it and so on,
another reason,
and so it goes on.
Yeah, I've got a great,
chew on this for a second.
A couple of years ago,
Nokia sold the most phones in the world.
Granted, they all weren't smartphones.
They were most of them were flip phones,
but they sold the most phones in the world.
And, in the same year,
you probably knew more about Apple phone
than you did anything from Nokia.
Well, first point on what's ever seen there,
was it's not just that people think
it's more expensive, so it's better.
The thing that Apple have really done well
is they've made products,
or their products,
are things that feel like premium products.
You're not just paying the price for a premium product
and then walking out and feeling that it's really plasticky
and it's slow and it's sluggish and whatever.
It feels like a premium product.
So, when you've paid a premium price,
you feel like you've got a value for money.
You feel that.
So, it's not that there's no buyer's remorse there.
You're already bought into the whole concept.
But, I mean, the other thing that Apple have done
really, really well to raise their profile apart
with us was something that Steve Jobs did.
It wasn't just Apple, it was impersonally.
He would go around TV studios, movie studios.
They would take tours of the air
and get backstage and stuff and meet directors,
producers and actors, whatever.
I'm just hobnobbing them.
And what he would do is go into the props department
and he would just drop off lots of iPhones and iPads
and various devices,
so that when the program makers, when they say it right,
we need this character to make a phone call.
They don't have to go and make a prop.
They just go and get an iPhone.
And therefore, on screen, what you see on screen
is effectively a prop.
But, it's a real phone and it's something that Steve Jobs
has personally dropped off at the props department.
Therefore, Apple get free promotions in TV shows and in movies.
And it is said right,
if you show the Apple logo, you have to pay us.
That's why you see a lot of them.
You'll see what you know as an Apple product.
You know it's a Mac or something
because you recognise it.
But there's something obscuring the Apple logo
and the reason for that is because they haven't paid Apple
to show the logo that they've got a free prop.
I think Fistle Web is the first bit there.
That's exactly it probably, as well.
They've paid the premium price
and then it feels like a premium price
because it's not windows.
It's a job rating system itself is designed better.
And it feels good, I suppose.
And then Android is good as well.
But Android is generally on cheaper phones.
So people are going to be like,
well, iPhone is more expensive
and then they're playing and all that as well.
It looks.
And that's fully what win people over.
So in Macs.
Of course, we do a casual review.
It's different because most people don't really know about.
That's not the next one.
They're too afraid to run it.
Or you know, it's all these different debates.
So it's sort of windows or Mac.
And that's a bit different.
I think there's also a thing about impression of a commodity.
Whereas on Android, you say,
well, what is Android?
Well, Android can be anything.
Samsung do Android.
Google do Android phones.
Or they can't buy them the shops.
LG and whatever.
And the same with the computer market.
What is Windows?
Well, that can you get that on a one over a Dell or whatever.
It's a commodity.
It's just, it's the one similar experience across a lot of different hardware.
Whereas Apple, the only way you're going to get the Apple operating system,
whether it's iOS or iOS 10,
is on Apple products.
So it feels it's got the impression they can sell it as this custom thing
that they've put all this work into,
and it's special on it's unique.
And it's rather than just a commodity thing that they've bought and showed on top of it.
It's like, it's all combined.
Apple do this off with Android hardware.
You're getting all this special magic as a premium product.
Premium design product.
It was designed to work well with each other.
And they can sell that narrative because it is exclusive.
Yeah, yeah.
Secondly, it's exclusive.
It's the hardware and the software.
It's both together.
It's not just the software on more various different types of hardware.
And then with all the marketing power and all the rest of it.
And then, yeah, Apple sells.
I think they've also got the right idea when it comes to,
I don't like common geniuses,
but the idea or the concept that you can buy something as advanced as a computer
for a smartphone or a tablet.
And then if you want to say that,
show me how this works.
I want you to find out how this works.
You don't have to go farthing about on forums and all that.
You can just take it into the genius bar and ask them.
And they know what the products are and they can show you.
And they'll set up, they'll install things.
And come across the most service point of view.
That is good.
What I've noticed as well with Apple is that a lot of people
who are not really interested in technology or software computers.
They're not very technical.
But yes, they have Apple.
And some of them, they really like Apple.
And they think it's, as they're saying,
it's the best thing since it's nice,
bad thing I was trying to say.
And, you know, I've come across some of these people in person this year.
And I just don't really understand it fully myself.
But while they're in so Apple,
they're not even technical.
But it's probably because, like, we're saying,
the premium price and it works really well and all that.
So they know about all the other choices and so on.
So, yeah.
They're really like Apple.
I think it's more to do with it.
Yeah, it's worth a mouthful of the time.
My wife is not really techy,
but she's quite intelligent.
She doesn't ask her friends.
And the friends have got, you know,
she was very happy with the iPhone 4s.
Nothing was wrong with it.
I'm an upgrade to years later and you know,
iPhone 5s because it's plus because it's a big phone.
And I can afford it.
So why not?
I don't know what an Android is.
I'm not going to buy an Android.
Her parents have got Android,
which is quite surprising,
but she's quite happy with the Apple product.
She's not going to change.
So she goes and gets a success.
And it's been working fine for her.
She's quite happy.
You know what I mean?
She probably upgrade to the exhibition when it happens.
I think with Apple,
the thing that I would...
It's different, different ideas for different people.
Different solutions for different people.
Some people are suited to Apple.
I wouldn't touch them personally,
but I can see their appeal.
And for some people,
it's the right solution for them.
The thing that I always caution people against
is the fact that if you're buying Apple,
you're not just buying a product.
You're getting on a treadmill.
And that treadmill is going to rub your bank account
something rotten because their whole thing is
when you buy a new product,
when that gets a bit older,
and another new product,
they stop supporting the older one,
and you've kind of got no choice,
but the upgrade.
When everything's locked in together,
everything's designed to work with other Apple products.
They use...
Apparently, they use support as an upsell.
When you're saying that I need to get a search,
and so I've got a problem with search and search.
Their role is,
essentially, find out what non-Apple product you have,
blame that.
And then the solution to fixing that
is that support problem is by this Apple equivalent
to that one program that you're going to blame for the problem.
And I think that's horrendous.
But the idea that it's like going to be your eyes open,
as long as you're aware that you're stepping on a treadmill
and you're going to keep...
you're going to keep gouging you.
Every so often, you're going to be expected to keep paying more
and more and more,
and you're stuck on the Apple treadmill.
And as long as you're...
you're happy with that, then,
find that going to be your eyes open.
And it's also the idea that...
the idea that Apple have their own ways
that they want you to do things.
They've worked out what they think is an optimum way for you
to your workflow TV.
And as long as you agree with that,
as long as you're about only adapt to that,
you'll find Apple products brilliant.
When you decide, you know,
it doesn't really work for me,
I want to do things another way,
then you start bumping in these invisible walls
as Apple tries to floor she back down their own path.
I remember working in the computer store a couple of years ago
and all these Apple frameworks are coming
in and buying the latest Mac,
that book, where it was.
And it was exactly the same...
It had to set the same stuff inside it,
like an IC7 processor,
and the same hub,
where there's this Sony laptop
that was a thousand bucks,
and Apple, one was two and a half thousand,
and it was like,
really expensive.
And these people are just coming in and buying it.
And I was going,
why don't you have a look at that?
It's just that we'll do the same thing.
They don't want to know.
Yeah, yeah, I've got two points.
So first of all, yeah,
you buy one Apple product
and then the support will run out
and they will try and use it by the next one and all that.
And yeah, the other thing is,
yeah, I did,
you thought about an Apple store,
I remember going into the one local city here,
in August 2012,
where two people who, anyway,
and I went in there,
and I've never been in an Apple store,
and I've actually been in an Apple store
all I didn't think before then.
I went in there,
and it didn't take long.
I know what I basically saw,
exactly why,
one reasons why I don't buy Apple.
And quite simply,
because it's just everyone,
a lot of people in that store,
they were looking at the Mac,
they were looking at this and that,
but what they were also looking at was Microsoft Office,
full Mac,
and I'm thinking,
you know,
if you want Microsoft Office,
so badly,
then go and use Windows for it.
Or if you like more recent,
you can use the online docs,
but that's a separate thing.
If you want to use Microsoft Office,
so badly, you might want to use Windows,
that's what I think anyway.
Yeah, I did a lot of that too, actually,
but I think,
I mean, I was actually there for the Sony,
I'm promoting the Sony laptop anyway,
but the Sony tablet,
which is all over the price,
but there's another story,
but I mean,
as I see,
I think Sony do do making completely wrong.
I mean,
it kind of the way Apple have done it is brilliant.
And I think Sony should probably look
at how Apple do stuff,
to be honest.
Yeah, Apple don't market products.
They market a lifestyle,
and they get you to buy in that lifestyle,
and it's that cool trendy,
hipster lifestyle.
It's the exact same type of marketing
as you get with,
with aftershade and perfume,
and things like that.
That's what they want people to buy into,
is that lifestyle.
That lifestyle,
that people love the few buyers product.
And yeah, it walks,
it really does walk.
It doesn't need.
But it does walk,
and a lot of people walk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's a brand as well.
And it's actually,
it's a brand like a lot of,
like a locomotor,
and various different brands,
cars,
perfume,
and those of different brands,
but it's also a lifestyle
or a campy like this,
or where I've just said,
right,
But saying all that,
I mean Linux and open source software and being into that and going on a podcast that we're
doing now or going to an open source event. I mean that's our lifestyle can be but it's just
completely different to what the Apple lifestyle would be or even the Windows-like lifestyle would be
like when you like let one the use of all the Microsoft stuff and all the rest of it and then
the proprietary software and maybe factory shop and all the rest of it but yeah it's different
lifestyles as well. That's a good point man. I think as well with the branding I mean people when
you think of Windows if you're not a turkey when you think of Windows it's basically that machine
that you have to use at work when you're fighting with a work that keeps crushing it's this thing
of frustration so when you're going to buy a phone you know I want something I can use for fun
I can use it for different things I want to be reliable. Oh Windows like no way I'm not touching
that. It's like in a toxic brand when it comes to choice when you've got a choice of something else
you invariably go with something else other than Windows because it's not a well received
brand it might well be among the sort of corporate world to the buyers must be for walking and
whatever but personal really the other thing as well though is when a brand becomes so ubiquitous
it can almost be a saturation point I mean I'm at the point where I will not I'll not buy
white earbuds because anytime I see someone with white earbuds on I automatically think of
iPod but Apple and it's like it is almost like I don't want it be I don't want to be a source
I don't want anyone to see I'm just in the street and think I'm beyond on that we have an
iPod. Just forget to the iPod he phones they're horrible that's what he phones either either
put on either I've got my last six plus ones they're horrible they're one of those they've
got a funny design and they're working hard they feel horrible when you put them on and they
might look cold but they're definitely not practical. Well the thing is with brands companies can't
control who uses the products and then there was a problem in the 90s here there's a band a brand
called Burberry here and they make like checked things and check clothes and here in the 90s football
casuals took to where in Burberry that was their brand of choice so on the news free promotion
for the Burberry company was every well not every front page but regularly front pages every weekend
all over the country was football casuals turning up at a town and a city that a football game
and running riot kicking the shit out kicking lumps out of people so I'm trying not to swear
kicking lumps out of people and you know fighting with people and ground trash and shops and whatever
in the photographs on the news papers and under the six o'clock news and ten o'clock news
always people wearing burberry and burberry hated it because that was really hard on their brand
because let's face it when you've when that becomes a norm if you're not a football casual
why would you want to wear burberry because if you wear burberry you're assuming that by the other
football casuals or he's one of us so and you don't want to get drawn into that so you just don't buy
burberry and they hated that but I'm wondering if Apple have gotten to that same stage with
what the iPod in particular the everyone in the rank is wearing has got an iPod and so a lot of
people who have got images and do stuff that you don't particularly approve of they're proud Apple
users and they've given the behind a bad name and nothing that Apple can do about it.
Happy New Year's guys. Yeah, Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year Pokey.
Finally made it sorry I wasn't here for most of the day I just got home from work.
Hey Pokey. What's up Eggwall? How long will the Apple discussion now because it is
is getting interesting. Oh sorry I want to interrupt. No no you can join in we're just discussing Apple.
Yeah I think I've said all I have to say about Apple at this point.
Yeah I've got basically nothing to say about Apple at this point.
Okay. The only thing I would say is I do agree with what you guys have said. I actually do think
people get locked down and just don't realise what being locked doesn't mean that she's not
ideal. Yeah yeah exactly Apple locking I was going to say that earlier vendor locking.
I remember there was an old saying all that I remember there was an old what's
police still there's a vendor locking page on Wikipedia which had Apple on their Microsoft
I think Adobe haven't been on for quite a while but I remember reading that before thinking
yeah this is this is a good good page that was quite a while ago when I last read it but
I assume it's still there. Vendor locking page on Wikipedia. I think you're exactly right Marcus
and you have to be right because people don't get vendor locked in when they know what it is when
you realise what vendor lock in is you avoid it so yes the only way it can happen is for people not
to know it. I guess it's the same with like takeaway places like everyone knows what the
Donald's is a bicycle Donald's is a bit like Apple no no I can't would be windows
but I suppose no you you can go out for your little second you know and we'd be the snackers
that go and get fish and chips instead. No because you you can eat McDonald's today and you can go
to Burger King tomorrow and they won't make you barf up your McDonald's at the door and good thing
because McDonald's would have made me barf the day before. No I've gone that's a fish burger
I think it's marketing does have a lot to do with it. Actually that's the interesting point
there. Food, be it fast food, be it restaurants, be it the supermarket or a little bit of your
local shop or your local butcher or local grocery. I've paid it in this sense. Point not really
get you don't really get locked in anywhere because there's so much choice that you don't really
get yeah I don't think you need to get locked in to any Pacific shop for food. Yeah that's all
brain recognition though isn't it. I've McDonald's is all about the brain in a big game and you're
driving something what do we get for it or there is these the stories going to get something from
me. Sorry Marcus. I was going to say I just realized you know I was thinking about it when
when I just said that food really can't be under locked in. I was going to say there's been
sci-fi that I'm aware of that you get vendor locked in with food that once you start eating it you
can't turn back and I realized it was in one of the books from the audio book club so it's probably
not fair that I bring it up. You can get locked into a brand in a way though because
if you let's say let's use chocolate as an example here you like
parties which actually is pretty label so it's an example or your Mars bar or your I mean
there are actually sort of cheap copies of Mars bar sort of thing like very similar but if you
want a Pacific product Pacific chocolate then well you only got that one company to buy it from
because there is no other one selling the same thing in that sense if it's for banana or something
like that one you know that and then obviously there's various different companies selling bananas
and then you can't get locked in in that sense. No I disagree. You're confusing the concept of vendor
locking. Yeah you're not locked into anything you can easily just say I don't want to pay Mars bar
places or whatever I'm going to buy another chocolate bar. Yeah yeah but I meant yeah but I
meant for the very Pacific products in this case so. But that's trademark it's got it's got nothing
to do with vendor lock in. Vendor lock in is when you buy like your printer and then all of the
printer ink that you have to buy from then on comes from them because they won't license it to
anybody else and it gets more severe with a product like you know an iPod used to be they use MP3
is now but say like a zoom you know that only uses WMA files well if you want to switch your vendor
if you want to switch the vendor of your MP3 player you can't because your media is locked into that
vendor or with a Kindle if you buy all your books on a Kindle and you want to switch your e-reader
you now cannot do that because all of the media that you've purchased is locked into that Kindle
it's the same thing like buying cartridges for a Nintendo or an old Sega or something like that
that came with cartridges as soon as you upgrade you can't use your cartridges anymore now it's a
little different than vendor lock in because they did it to themselves they wouldn't move on the
platform without you but you know before the before the platform rev like if you bought an NES and
bought a a dozen NES games for 50 bucks a piece well you're into the games for 600 bucks the
the Nintendo machine only cost you 150 so now you're locked into that machine and even if it breaks
you're going to buy another one because you got 600 bucks worth of games as opposed to going and
buying a Sega because oh boy that Sega Master System looks cool but I've got no games for it and I've
already spent 600 on on the other games so it's that vendor lock and you're talking about brand
loyalty which everybody likes brand brand loyalty I think is is advantageous to the vendor and the
consumer because you know that you're getting something from someone you trust and that's what
that's a trademark is all about that's why trademarks have to be so vehemently defended
there's less marketing it's interesting too if you look at how that movie got that started it was a
cool interview that works in a different way if you're marketing something like that like people
are going to see it not so much because the movie's good because it was banned so they want to
see it because I want to see what was banned you know I mean it wasn't yeah I do know what you mean
but that one wasn't banned it just the movie theorist didn't want to play it after all the bad
news came on about it but yes you're your point stands yeah but no they got threatened or whatever
I'm not bad but I said whatever and then it's showing in America anyway and online or whatever it was
yeah black brand loyalty and then what I can say is your games example is this perfect one you
buy those games and you can't run on different console because obviously it doesn't
support those games until you're stuck with the maybe the upgrade of the console you have but
to run those games but that's it really let's do open tools game but then there's no games consoles
anyway well there's that of course called it was like I feel like a game boy but an open tools
open standards thing that's another topic fortunately there is a cure for vendor lock-in it's called
piracy
of new tech and I've got some new side through so we believe I think it was this all wants to
tell joke but come dot com's coming out with something interesting and I don't know when it's
to do with he reckons his rivals sky then it's all done with a tour network so I don't know what's
that so about make a change let me hear this a web first and then I'll comment on that all right
so just a quick bizarre non-sequitor apropos of nothing I just figured there should be a voice
operated thing for smartphones that operate let's let's start your apps and the command to start
it should be go go gadget and then the app name the go go gadget camera and it switch off camera on
if it had pushed to talk I'd be down but I don't like my device is listening
24 hours a day for me to say go go gadget but though that is a good command for it yeah
it was just I was actually thinking about smart watches and what the point of the was and then
if I cut to me that from way back I remember like Inspector Gadget cartoon when he talked
he's watch and that's what made me think of it is like go go gadget you know flashlight or something
I think and you may get this joke this whole web because you're I think you're of the right
age group but I think my command would be magic dick magic dick I have no clue what you're talking
about you never heard that joke it's one of the worst jokes ever that sounds like a cheesy
job like oh well let people go go get yeah I'm not safe for work sentence anyway sorry back to
the discussion as I said I initially came back and I thought I was going to burst into that
and unfortunately everyone was having an interesting conversation I didn't want to be real it
the world I was waiting up thinking I will build an update it's not about that funny but
with a business as I just through anyway anyway by the discussion well I don't want to you know
I I feel like I should apologize to Marcus for standing on that point but it's hard to have a
discussion when certain things are not defined and if we're talking about a thing it needs to be
defined if that's discussion is going to hold up and vendor lock-in is a as a clearly defined
thing and I'm sorry for you know keep that in that back at you to say that what you're talking about
wasn't vendor lock-in but it's it's um you know like I said it's for me it has to be defined or else
I have a hard time yeah very very random it's one to next time zone I change my topic halfway
through just two minus a quarter you mean oh yes can you yeah can you yeah Sweden um
Netherlands well miss western Europe three and soon we'll start popping head heavy new year
I was in a lot of place Germany Brussels your red Paris room and all that more good call
thank you yeah yeah that's central central Europe there's another way from us but when I say
as I mean myself and so yeah we're next I don't apologize for changing topic halfway during a
conversation just a thing with me I think a lot of these things a lot of people don't really
grok the difference I mean you have seen it quite a lot um discussing with people when they say
oh it's a it's a it's a copyright infringement thing and what they're actually talking about
its patents or trademarks I think it's all and this catch-all vague term called intellectual
property and it all means the same thing you can just replace the word patent in the same sentence
with trademark and it means the same thing it doesn't you just doesn't and sometimes that can
you're absolutely right and on that same note I apologize to Marcus when I meant to apologize to
Seb Seb no one apologizes to me anyway yeah the copyright thing I find that an interesting topic
because I can't get my head around a lot of it and I think a lot of the laws even in this country
where I am resonant like the 1960s I apologize for people my lawns you can probably hear next door
but um yeah I mean I find that quite um um fascinating because people just don't understand the laws
any update any update the model well yeah well that's the thing so many things have been the laws
were written from analogue world and now we're living a digital world um or a digital and analogue
world the written the written at a time where if you want a book it's a physical book it's
paper um printed paper that you buy and if you um if they say right you can sell that you can get
out of it you no longer have a copy of it um whereas a digital world um it's a copy it's everything
that comes it's it's a copy when you say like buy this track okay what's not buying but um when
you say an iTunes or Amazon or whatever buy this thing um you don't get the original copy you get
a copy made from the server on your device that's a copy that's not an original thing if you sell
that you still have the copy you can still you can still use that copy your copy and have an
identical copy on someone else's machine you give it to yourself it to so it's written for a
different world um and the digital world everything's a copy and the politicians don't get it
I'm sorry I don't that means her but the politicians just don't get it they listen to the big
businesses who have their own motives and they just don't get that they're actually stuffing
the public around because they they're picking on people really don't don't know what the laws
are anyway and I'm just sharing content or whatever or putting something in the video it's someone
else is done I'm even a national the the the current government going to an election time here
because they stole a new meme so they didn't know yeah this brings up a kind of side topic as well
but really you bent stuff you don't just own the video and the physical copy you maybe have a
PDF but you rent a lot of stuff now you Netflix you rent you rent stuff on your cable box you know
you stream stuff when you're paying for what you're basically renting it you don't own the
physical anything well you license it for a term I I'd like to add to what Marcus said it's not
just that the politicians don't get it I realized recently that most of us don't get it
when we talk about these laws being laws for an analog world and being kind of clumsily
transposed onto a digital world it's it's more than that and Cory doctoro has put it the best I
think because he put it well enough that I started to understand it is it was their laws made for
a world that's in an industrial revolution that well he didn't say that this is just kind of
the way I understand it but the laws were mostly made for the world while it was in an industrial
revolution and we're no longer in that industrial revolution we're post-industrial at this point
or at least we we're trying like hell to be where the laws were made for industry copyright
was is industry law you it's assumed that if you're copying a book you're doing with a printing
press and you're selling physical copies so therefore you're industrial whereas like you said
you you have to make a copy of it just to put it up on your screen I mean you probably make
four copies of it at least you've got a copy in RAM you got a copy going through your processor
or copy in your video RAM and and one up on the screen I mean it's it's it's a copy of a copy of a
copy so it doesn't apply but it's not just because analog and digital it's the the very nature
of our economy in which the laws are all for the most part intended to protect has changed
yeah I agree actually just in regards to that on election day here we had a couple of
the sports stars got in trouble for tweeting go out and vote on election day and they actually
got taken to court over it it's just everyone's on Twitter tweeting about stuff you can't stop
a whole population saying something in social media about laws that were done 20 years ago I think
I don't copy right this do a social media I think the law the laws just need to be updated
or more than not yeah that was one of the things that I was going to see as well as the fundamental
way that devices actually work couldn't work if you banned copying can you say that again this
a web or I don't know if you cut out or if I just missed your point I may be dumb yeah no I was just
saying that if you if the politicians decided for example to ban a device from copying
at the behest of the MP and RIA and whatever it couldn't function because that's a very basic
function of how a computer works how a device works the the track itself the data itself is on your
hard drive it doesn't play from your hard drive it makes it get a copy into RAM and goes through
video CPU whether it's a copy it's in there for sure it can't it cannot the computer cannot work
without that basic process so if you ban copying the computer is dead it has no function when you
load a program forget the songs fuel and you load a program it copies what it needs to into RAM
so that you can use it when you're finished through it with your document you save it and you close
it and it copies it back to the hard drive it's got a person's a copy and you cannot remove that for
the process and it's not just computer so that's devices other devices as well you just cannot
separately that it's impossible may I make a constructive criticism here and I'm asking because
I wish for people not to take this as anything but constructive you can trust
thanks FSV and by the way welcome to the room I've not been here all days I don't know if you
have been so neither welcome or welcome back now I just got here for the second year in a row I'm
in on my own and years because I'm sick so I just couldn't be punctured it oh god you're
really going to keep rereading that water flows I only read it once I just remembered now it's
sorry man I'm already driving it's always winter flows they get in the middle of winter
it's actually nice day in the middle of summer here so yeah no it's the time of year for it if
XB you're such a flusy but a psh Marcus it must be really weird to see the everything associated
with Christmas is all from the the west of the world where it tends to be cold and snowy and
windy and and all that and it must be really really strange I mean I've thought this before
about imagine sitting sitting on Bondi beach in Australia on Christmas day in your trunks on
and just with the heat blasting you and that must be really really strange where all everything
associated with Christmas New Year is ice and stuff that that must be really strange oh the hell
it's strange man if I lived in the southern hemisphere my Christmas tree tree would be a palm tree
actually we used to it like that we we don't even have good weather well it's been a crappy summer
actually but we normally only have good weather during Christmas anyway so it's always like nice
and sunny in New Year's and yeah everyone's partying out partying and stuff and I think it was a
big partying because it's been New Zealand yesterday we were I think they had festival and there was
like any people who are interested so everyone's having fun at the moment that's what happens in New
Australia I guess what happens in the night when you get nice weather I kind of imagine he's in
Christmas and cold and snowy and and we don't have to tap you off all right so I'm going to jump in
here with the point that I was trying to make and I don't mean I'm not pointing this at any one
particular person because lots of people seem to do it and I notice it happening more and more
on mumble but I've heard people say I don't mean to interrupt and then they continue talking as if
they hadn't interrupted look I don't mean to interrupt here but hey but finish with your son
that's exactly it I hear people say it all the time I don't mean to interrupt and then they continue
talking if you don't mean to interrupt don't interrupt that's all it's my daughters do the same
kind of thing when they go no offense but and then they go on to offend people so just something
to think about food for thought these are half second leg and mumble when you're on the
southern hemisphere and miles away from the original server and and it's hard to me because it's
hard to me to get that gap when no one's actually talking because sometimes it's a disentiment
you've got to wait for two people to stop talking which is actually really difficult because you
get that leg it's going to be the next feature request for mumble is perfectly synchronized push
to talk yeah I wasn't I did not mean to point you out I mean I promise you
I do want to wrap though I know that I actually like I'm trying really hard does she not be so
I'm actually something I'm aware of because I know I interrupt a lot last year and it was a
bad habit which I'm trying to get out yeah I think in fairness with Marcus there's a lot of leg
on on his end not so much with the rest of us but having said that no one knows when someone's
about to talk we can't see each other all we can say is or if there's no one talking I'll wait
until people stop talking and then I'll push I'll start talking and if two other people think
the same and they've jumped on at the same time well we jump on each other it happens I know what
you mean it's all good but yeah it happens I've worked a lot I actually always wondered if I
asked to do it again I actually was wondering if I did it in like in radio like how they know
when someone else has turned to talk in radio because I mean that must they don't
interrupt them right now so they must be a way that they it's your turn to speak your turn to speak
when they have three or four co-hosts you know me well they're in the same room they can sort of
put a finger up to say that I want to make a point and it's all non-verbal you don't see it as
when you're listening you don't see that and then when one person starts talking the other one
can start talking and it's all visual yeah I was going to say it's extremely rare that there will
be any kind of multi-person discussion in radio whether not all in the same studio it well I don't
know when I use mumble I'm always looking at the lips light up and I thought everybody did that
back in the beginning it seemed like everybody did but it doesn't seem like it doesn't seem like
everybody does anymore I do that but I wonder if it's just people who've forgotten to set up their
push-to-tort buttons and don't have the threshold set properly yeah I think it does because I have
pressed a talk on so but if you don't have pressed a talk on your lips will light up anyway when
someone else is talking so it's quite hard to figure out who is actually not talking and who is
I mean if it's your turn or not yeah I mean I look for the lips as well but I mean one of the things
that I don't know it must have been the people that started talking the mumble with they said
all you've got to do that's push-to-talk it's sort of it's almost like an etiquette thing set up
push-to-talk because I wasn't used to that from Skype and it took me quite a long time to get used
to the whole push-to-talk thing but once I have it works and especially when there's a lot of people
in the same room like like tonight and it really does help yeah I'm in full push-to-tort
pretty well yeah I mean that's exactly what I was about to say those of us have used mumble
quite a lot before I was just going the habit of having pushed a talk set up so and do you sound
chaser do you still see it as an etiquette thing because I never thought of it as etiquette but
that's a good way to think of it I think if you've been thinking about it that way for a while
does it still work for you I don't think I made that statement about etiquette that was me
displayed those though but um you know that's I was just kind of the way I always got it
otherwise sorry I've been drinking quickly I was gonna say man how how how you ever confused me
in this little web that really kind of baffles my mind because your names are right above and below
one another and I must have just glanced as I was speaking so my mistake I apologize to everyone
but the two of you it's the accent I'll tell you it's the accent I was I was thinking
when did I get your exit I was trying to figure it out otherwise you can do it too just
I got chastity I was watching the lips um as actually distinguishing someone's name and then
nice speaking then you mentioned someone else's name and it's one way you can do it in the podcast
yeah it used to be a habit of mine and I've I've gotten out of it because it felt like I was
being rude but maybe it isn't but I I used to uh you know hit the push to talk while someone
else was talking but then not say anything just so that you know it kind of like put in your hand
up like may I speak next kind of thing but then it felt like I was you know saying hey it's my turn
next if the rest of you so I kind of stopped doing it but maybe that is the way to do it I don't know
now dude that that's exactly the way I do it as well I try to leave it off until I eat until I
can sense that they're coming to the end of their sentence and then I'll do that exactly what you
say they'll push the push the talk button let the lips right up light up and not say anything and
that way they know that I'm not gonna interrupt them but I want to speak next so I do that as well
it's really hard actually figuring out when people actually stop talking and it's actually
really hard to figure out sometimes we're also frigging long-winded how do you sense that
I'd love to see if we could all like sync up with with the push to talk and do like a little
mexican wave with the lips I don't know what a mexican wave is and I'm kind of afraid to find out
well you know it's like a mexican wave is when you get a big crowd in a stadium or somewhere and
they sort of they sync up and they start one end stand up and sit down and it's like a wave as
they go across and I figure I wonder if we could get the same thing going down the list of names with
the lips what you call it a mexican wave I think I know what you want right yeah the mexican
we have one one does lips in the next in the next in the next yeah exactly but in in order and
when it's meant to be done great to get give you an idea of the mexican wave was it was one of the
the things that came out of the Mexico World Cup and yeah 86 maybe 90 I think no I tell you 90 so
it was M80s yeah I think it was 86 it could have been it might have been a year or two earlier but
yeah I think I think that's the tone yeah anyway hosted in Mexico and the cloud I don't know
who invented it but something hold on sorry I have to interrupt here so I'm going to I know
exactly what you're talking about now that you've described it and I've known it my entire life
but we don't call it the mexican wave here in the states we just call it the wave
well no that that was the reason why we caught the mexican wave and I think why most of the world
caught the mexican wave was because it became a feature of the world cup in Mexico is it it's
quite efficient hasn't it I mean I'm I'm nice around sports events in New Zealand was huge
about ten years ago no no one does Mexican wise yeah see it too much anymore it depends on the
size of the stadium I've if a stadium is very rounded it's easy to do because you can see when
it's coming but if you do it like they try it all the time at the racetrack that I go to which
has got about a half a mile back or half a mile straight away and you can't do it down the straight
away because you can't see past the person next to you if it's straight but if it was a round
stadium then it would be really easy to do it said that that might have something to do with it
as the stadiums growing but wow what's self-centered a holes we Americans are they won't even credit
the mexicans for it yeah it only really works unless you got big crowd when we don't call football
football we call it soccer I mean come on yeah we call it football and what you do is called
handic yeah that's the thing they call it football because the ball is in contact and I'm sorry the
ball is in contact with the football and only the football yeah but when the ball is mostly in
contact with the hand for most of the game with the odd kefir here and there shouldn't really
call it football I understand yeah I'm trying to figure out I mean our football really is some kind
of weird version of rugby basically it looks like that's how I've always thought of it there's
rugby with bottle arm or on with you yeah really like a wind egg or is it just you FXB
not quite a lot of people call it handic yeah but only only only in a joking sense I mean
it's appropriate it's hilarious well the only people that can play rugby is easier and so
I don't know what you guys talking about oh here we go freaking ponies what you don't say
freaking either what do you say the bloody ponies no no we don't you know I was watching an
episode of Frazier the other night I've been binging on Frazier and just the mexican wave thing
and remember one of the episodes where he went up I think it was a basketball game the took
Martin term a basketball game and Frazier was so excited the most most mundane things
in the crowd did the mexican wave and Frazier was oh that look look look at the wave
yes right he called it the wave though he didn't call the mexican wave right did you pick did you
notice that I possibly did I possibly did but yeah I mean this is Frazier though remember this
is Frazier this is a guy that only understands high art he doesn't understand anything else so
you can sort of understand that yeah but that took I mean seriously hands up any other
Americans in the room have you ever called it the the mexican wave by an American I don't even
know where it actually started in the world cup watch teams were involved because it must have
been I must have started with two teams you know playing and then this no no it must have started
at some point it might have been America playing there if they qualify I don't know but all I know
at the next go world cup between two of the teams so and how how does that type of thing get
started if you're in a crowd and you say oh hey guys I've got I've got an idea this is what we
could do how do you organize that on the fly with other fans to actually start it going I mean you're
sitting sitting there four or five of you all on the edge of a row all sitting one behind each other
right okay we'll get up and down at the same time and then watch the next roll get up and then
you do it and the person next to you don't move how do you get that started to the point where
all right but get it no okay so it goes right around how do you get that started how do you
organize that well it's called Apple what they do they win around America the whole thing to the
crowd before we actually hadn't there you go there's a theory okay that's just a theory that's not
but not the for truth okay sorry um my fault nothing it's right nothing nobody
of attacking thing I say is the truth because I normally just don't know what I'm talking about at all
okay not sure why I was the first one to do it but actually went to Wikipedia and there he's called
the wave but it's a sentence known as the Mexican wave in the anglosphere outside of North America
wait a minute make sure it goes far in North America they don't even call it like they should call it
our wave so people say you should don't worry about what he paid with the paid but what the
paid is it quite quite a challenge or no plastic hour Wikipedia is excellent I don't care what
anybody says but there are problems to there can be problems the the XK CD comic about how
Wikipedia can go wrong is is very very good Wikipedia always seems to be okay enough to me for
like the Linux stuff and then what has for that but yeah a lot of people say it has wrong
information and so on but why seems seems to be okay it has a picture you need it opinion it's
a picture you got yeah it is but I'd expect you to be like crystal flag when he used to read off the
agents for you this could couple years back Wikipedia is a great place to start your research not
to finish it yeah that's what I was going to say as well and I also depends on how much you care
about the exact information being correct and if you're looking up something and you just want a
broad overview then Wikipedia is absolutely amazing for that this condenses it all down and if
some of it is less than accurate well doesn't really matter that much but if it's something that
really does matter you've got to be accurate then that is a good start and off point it gives you
a good grounding and you can sort of bounce off that yeah exactly you got a Wikipedia for the
cliff notes and then you do your fact checking elsewhere yes absolutely I keep trying to tell my
daughter that you'll build your your your outline with the Wikipedia links at the very bottom of
the page I wouldn't use what you're an e-sign at all but yeah if you want to get your I would
detail in here that too because to the lecture teachers do not like Wikipedia links
I think if you went and just got your information from there and then we got sourced from somewhere
else you're fine what another one I rather enjoy from time to time is Wikipedia the Star Wars one
I've never heard of that yeah it's not an official Wikipedia Wikipedia I'll type it and I can't
even see it so I'll type it and is that on a is that on is that on Wikipedia no it's a separate site
and it's dedicated it's dedicated to Star Wars all things Star Wars and the the graphic novels
to the movies to the actors to the plots that character everything yeah it's kind of neat and it's
a pretty much definitive sort of centralized source it's like it's almost like all the Star Wars
geeks are kind of gathered around that's one place and decided to make that's one place the
the definitive place to go if you want to look up anything Star Wars related that's the place you
want to go to is Wikipedia apparently a Star Wars movie is the most anticipated movie of 2015
I was reading that on probably got from Wikipedia site today well from what I can see the trailer
is a spark a lot of people now I quite like the trailer actually not too sure about the
dude that the crucifix lightsaber but you know it looks good it looks good and they can't do any
washing job lookers so I'm here's fingers crossed I see am I the only one that has zero interest in
seeing it because now Disney owns the franchise yeah yeah top eight movies the top 30 were all
Disney movies last year I think there's with Star Wars though I mean I'm a self-confessed Star Wars
I've been since I was knee-high to you know so I'm probably biased in this but I think there's a lot
of anticipation that wasn't really fulfilled in the prequels that people are bought into this
universe and it really wanted to be something really damn cool and they got the the final way
the technology was there all the CGI technology was there to be able to tell this really cool story
and they got the prequels and it just didn't quite deliver but people are still there still
invested in this universe and they want something that's gonna it's gonna satisfy that and it looks
like the the new trailer it looks like things are kind of they've got potential again that could
well be finally what we've been waiting for but it's Disney yeah they're doing some marketing too
with the approval crucifix that's reverse marketing again people that the game people's attention
was something in the trailer and then having to talk about it and so everyone wants to go and see
it to see what the hell it's all about something really minor in the trailer the crucifix on the
on the like that was quite brilliant yeah true I mean the other trailer actually this seems to
have been really well received as the new mod mic's trailer the fourth mod mic's movie I don't know
it looks like more than once just that it's in it's intriguing but I don't know shall
least they're on with a robot arm story wise story wise the idea that water is going to be the
the next resource that's so scarce and people fight over that's that's pretty much yeah that's
a good story like that's it's not really that novel because it looks like it could well be the case
well and it's down that own that is it's really good it's it's a good general idea but it has
been a plot point of a lot of dystopian films well you can't exact you can accuse water water with a
lot of things but you can't accuse of that easy on his plenty of water we'd be fine just
over here so he's gonna say the star with Star Trek news I was reading something about
I think I like it played the wolf apparently he's signed a contract with something it's
well official or apparently they're in production all those and semi-production when you
Star Trek series with him in charge of the Star Trek did you understand and the next sub title
will be how much lens flick and you stand I was eating now he must be getting on he must be
60s wouldn't he 50s at least you know he was a navy pilot before he started doing TNG I'm
really like a door and I don't know that yep so on on an interesting segue then what is the
most bizarre fact you found out about some famous name that you never even thought would be
possible wouldn't it anti-M is short for immigrant from from uh who was your boss
is okay it's not true at all I made that up by light I have no idea what you guys were talking
about I was distracted no I was just thinking on that Michael dorm being a pilot thing
now before the writing one of the things I found out this year that kind of blew my mind I'd
never never knew that about the guy you know a jaw draw well the guy that wrote 1984
yes of course one of my heroes right so did you know the jaw draw well you used to actually
went and evolved to go and fight in the Spanish Civil War from 1936 to 1939 no I had no idea really
yeah really that that was that was my thoughts as well they did a book called homage to Catalonia
uh Catalonia as a part of Spain that they want their independence and whatever but anyway he
when he saw the rise of fascism and the Hitler and um and Franco you know Franco and Spain
uh being aided by Hitler and Germany and Mussolini and Italy he saw it as his duty to go and fight
for the forces of democracy against the rise of fascism and he went with lots of people from all
over the world Italians Americans Canadians Germans French lots of people all went uh and for for
the various factions in Spain against fascism um during the Spanish Civil War and he was just one
of many internationalistas uh they did that and he did a whole book and detail on his essentially
his tour of duty and I'm going from town to town and I'm on duty and not seeing much action and
being totally confused if he been incompletely single a simple minded thinking that it was a simple
black and white thing then all of times he'd be fighting against the communists and then he'd meet
up in another town and you've got a band of communists that are on his side and he's totally
confused but aren't they the bad guys oh no they don't dodge what they're meant to be the bad guys
and he just got completely confused oh I was completely incorrect about that actually Michael
Don was not a pilot for the military he is a private um owner of several jet aircraft though
yeah I mean the other thing that kind of blew my mind that it all well was that I think it was
born today just to see what the experience was like it chose to live as a downer now in both Paris
and London he did a story a bit of that and he actually lived that lifestyle um where it could
he didn't have to um to basically live homeless but he did to to to feel what that experience
was like to live with no food haven't he go many many days with no food haven't he
stuck out in landlords because you couldn't pay the money haven't uh pawn various your last
possessions just so that you could buy food and things like that and I'm thinking this this guys
this guy is nuts I mean it really I mean you talk about 11 that 11 that are
that's awesome I always like the guy for what he saw and predicted but uh
and he really went out of his way to be a human being didn't he well he was a very
committed socialist very politically well we are very committed socialists um and it was
after that a very animal farm and have you read animal farm uh I saw the cartoon uh that doesn't count
wait whose whose user you are moving but that heart no one found I'm sure it's horrible people
no animal farm isn't a horror movie it's a it's a satire on um Stalin and on communism and when
the sheep not not the sheep sorry the pigs um take over the farm and they get the other farm animals
to work essentially for the bit for the good of the farm but it's not really for the good of the
farm it's for the good of the pigs um you know it's it's a whole satire or in Stalin uh and then
keeping changing the rules and saying or from one minute they say well it supplies are going to be
tight that this season whatever and congratulations comrades we've we've made surplus or whatever and
it's really good actually it's really really good yeah animal farms well worth reading I have a
question about that maybe someone might know uh in America people like it started in like the
hippie days people started calling the police pigs and I wonder if that's because of animal farm
I wasn't alive at the time so I don't know where it came from is is that where it's from or is
it something else does anybody know no I think that started in the UK somewhere back when the
bow street runners were going yeah because they do they yeah they still call police pigs that if
you get into the the the raw rough type of people here they still do they the gangs don't call
the police pigs here they don't have anything to do with it so yeah I think that predated
Orwell and by quite a bit I don't know where it's origins for but I don't think that's Orwell
no wait a minute predated him because he was he wrote 1984 in 1948 so you're saying people were
calling the police pigs before 1948 well yeah but remember at that point up until like the 50s
and the 60s there was an awful lot of difference to your your your your elders in the
and to those in the establishment of an awful lot of death difference where the average person
the street wouldn't call a police officer by their first name it would be officer it would be
constable and you know is there a lot of difference to your boss to your father to your mother
to that older generation so I think that a lot of that plays in it as well it's not just it's not
just any outside influence okay now someone has to wick a pd of this yeah the wick a pig a big good
good thing because it's a place where there should be noise pig disambiguation maybe it'll be there
yeah that was just a point I mean Orwell the fascinating character I only can I I don't know
what made me start looking at these wick a pd of him and looking at him as a person to find
out what kind of guy he was and looking you can you actually sit and look at what he did in his
lifestyle and his lifetime it's like wow this this guy is he he he walks the walk he's when he's
talking about a satire and communism or whatever he isn't just speaking from like a high
fallouting place he is really right down there and in the gutter with the people who are right at
the bottom of the food chain you know he's he's loving it so the first documented use of the
term pigs for police is actually in the dictionary of Buckish slang university wit and pick pocket
eloquence published in London in 1811 I'm wondering if the term is something to do with
like pigs getting the snouts in the trough and going where they're not wanted
investigating things and asking questions and and all that where they're not wanted where they might
and cover something I wonder if that's where the term might be is like you're asking too many
questions you might get me get me caught and whatever I wonder if that's like the snouts are
or where they're not wanted well it appears that it was first used as just a general
derogatory term for people back in the 1600s yeah that that predates a lot of well as much
only like 300 years of something that in plus a 400 years of the two people yeah yeah he could
come back and done that if I was a time traveler from the future I'd go back in time and meet
George Orwell and take him wherever he wanted to go so I think he might have wanted to see them
back then and dropped it off then I'm pretty sure it's how it happened here some really
interesting time travel pictures that people record people have traveled I don't know if they
could not there's a picture of one line of 40s and they reckon he just does stuff that he was
wearing in the black and white photo so he's from you know the modern times and there's some real
famous photos that are around going around the internet with trying to they reckon that time
travelers people talking on mobile phones in the 1930s and all sorts of stuff yeah I've heard
that stuff that's kind of neat and I don't think any of it's real but it's fun to pretend it is
yeah I agree I reckon time travel is actually possible now like they reckon they've actually
defronted this name's theory on it they reckon that this theory was you couldn't travel past
the light they reckon when you don't have to travel fast the light you can just go through a
wormhole and bypass that to do and you know to do with time travel and stuff you know this should
be and who knows what's going to be if he did it a hundred years time I mean a hundred years ago
they were still going around the horse of carriages so I'm trying to travel traveling through a wormhole
is one thing creating one and directing its other end as a whole another thing so I'm not so sure
I can buy into time travel at least not backwards and they reckon going back was easier than going
forwards though don't they no they said going forwards easier because all you have to do is approach
the speed of light and slow down again and everyone else will have aged and you won
there's been a couple space movie like sci-fi movies going around with if you travel to another
planet planet that's 30 years look 30 light years away or a hundred light years away
and you get there in five or six years but the time you get there it would have aged a hundred
years away whereas you know they would have you would have missed a lot of time would have gone by
and you would have even realised it on earth and however that works now I'm just waiting for
somebody to create a grandfather paradox like what's the latest dick hippo movie you'd be shot
the latest what movie and the Leonardo Kepio set movie no final Wikipedia can't remember what the
movie is called Leonardo del Crabio that was someone who's playing the Wolf of Wall Street was it
that's the latest one I can think of I know he's done another one since I just came up with it
as it said to do with the grandfather paradox so there was an inception where everybody's grandfather
wanted to kill him for making that movie but I don't know the another one oh are we are we all
familiar with the idea of the grandfather paradox you go back in time and you you kill your
grandfather and you you weren't born so there was no point you didn't go back in time that's the
father paradox yeah so he wasn't killed so you were born and you went back in time and killed him
according to future rama you can fix that by having sex with your grandmother
the Kepio movie pretty much that's sort of what happens Peggy was that a future arm episode it was
that just you day dreaming it was red dwarf red dwarf you remember that I watched that episode I was
a big red dwarf then I love red dwarf American success site to red dwarf I'll rob all rough I love
red dwarf yeah future armor has so many good luck just little one liners that just crack you up
I remember the one with the Zaidberg in the Roswell incident it's Zaidberg is the go back in time
and Zaidberg turns out to be the the Roswell alien and they sit down like a trap for for the alien
and Zaidberg sort of side was up it's like a a bit of roast chicken or something like that and he
grabs it and a cage comes down he's like oh friends I got a big trick to it that would be funny
I could imagine Zaidberg looking all confused about that is it bad that I find that more believable
grays or the other one who's underwater and Zaidberg buys a he buys a shell to make a home
he goes dressed up a little house in the prairie a little vomit and stuff like that and then later
on there's a fire underwater it flies like how is that impossible with house fire bungee shell
down it's underwater it does he breed chickens and sheep and rice horses that's the one yet
that was that was a red dwarf reference uh hello have you seen the future of my ages remember
the shell must have a whole last series that they've been in public back honey we watched it
one of the better ones was the um the whole take on i-tune e-y-e and i-phone or the i-parter
something like that and it's actually a chip that gets placed in behind the eye oh god don't give
apple ideas they they take you reading off tv shows they'll be doing that news
well you know they nick the idea of the ipad from Star Trek TNG so the last thing I read about
that um what i upload doing was an ipn it was not actually story everything you're writing in the
pen and um it would it can write on tablets write on normal paper and so it would just uh
everything would be stored in the pen or it'd be all that's what they'll dissipate or come up with
or something i believe oh i thought it was just a pen you were supposed to stab yourself in the
eye with it if you thought about it and apple product get up great to the next one of course
to keep them with features probably have to buy ink i i i i phone ink ink or something
well and you got two eyes uh yeah the upgrade is the one that comes with a new adi feature
that's all clicker at the top that brings the nub though it's been of like the celebrities and what
not in their interesting lives um james lipped on the inside the actor studio guy
he i want to say was back in like the fifties or something in france he was a legit pimp
it's what he did and in the eighties he also wrote the theme to a cartoon and that cartoon was
thunder cats that explains so much they're gonna say it news um the person did the rug rack
uh rug racks and someone else died yesterday i'm the cartoon voice it was easy to say yeah she was
only 51 there's quite a lot of female voice actors that do sort of children in quite high-pitched
creatures but it was it was kind of she was one of these people who's her name wasn't well-known but
she'd done very many well-known characters she was the voice of um chucky from the rug racks dexter
babe from the being based in criminal that's she's the one that's the one yeah
w bazaar um famous voice but not so famous face reference at our spot um i was checking out um
battle star galactic are the original one in 1978 and 1980 um but were the cheesy cheesier ones
and in one of the episode the double episode in the certain series um there was a character
they picked the silent up um on what the highway or something in the car really bizarre the driver
and i'm sending it and all that voice we're we're doing all that voice and i'm looking at the guy
the driver the actor playing the driver and i'm i don't recognize the face at all
and then a company that's the voice of kit from night rider that's the guy that does the plays
that plays the voice of of kit and i'm used to him as a disconnected voice just with the um with
the red light flashing back and forth um and the computer stuff on a dashboard but that's kit
and i'm thinking that's bazaar i've never seen this guy's face before but that's him he's good
it's funny how they they can't get um jobs as actors because people just get used to their boys
well in that case um actually glen lashing i think was the guy behind night rider as well
uh and it was him that did um that was their galactic apparently he was known as glen lashingy um he
was a guy who it would take whatever was popular and then he would basically just steal it
and just make some version of it and then pump it out as a really popular tv show
er could you do that all the time or he was v was really well known for it really bad for it
apparently um so i don't know how true that is but um apparently james garma on the set of
rockford files um found glen lashing and he's and he's trailer rifling through scripts for
the rockford files and he had to knock pick it they punched the guy and knock him out throw him out
the he's trailer because he was trying to steal script directly from the rockford files
apparently um i just looked at terians uh librarians or whatever it was called i just saw the
first episode where that is a straight copy of we house that um where where was it we house
that any way where it was called straight you know de ed's copy i'm going um i'm not watching it
did it was it two minutes of it well battle started galactic though they tried to get the
that um done in 1976 and they were turned down flat no one wanted to do it and then start
watch it in 77 and everyone wanted their own space opera and the back on the time in 1977 right
off the back of that um they got the season uh for battle start galactica so that was a direct
jumping on the success of start watch to get that done it might be what's happening with Star Trek
like they both thought Star Trek was dead well not Star Trek but a Star Trek series would be dead
like no one would really want to do another one but apparently because of um the sense of the movies
and uh to sense of um Star Wars again i think they're looking at doing another series again
on that note actually what i quite like to see i'm not quite like to see i do like to see
is any stany tv series that has like big long story arcs when they eventually come to a close
when the network's eventually saved right they're not doing it anymore um they'll at least give them
time give them four or five episodes notice so that they can close the story out of the series
yeah i grew up there by the way doctor who's been pissing me off this year and i've been a huge
panel doctor who i do not like the new doctor has more the cast i think the cast does don't get on
you can see it when they act they they're not the best of friends or there's something going on
on the background there's and the writing is well over the place this year it's like they tried to
make it for kids and they've lost your current audience and the kids don't understand what's happening
and it's like oh it's like just you got really annoyed with the doctor who this year
this can't even get into any of the episodes at all i gotta i kind of agree i mean i think the
rating was all over the place and just really bad and i think that's made it really hard for
the actors to actually pull things together they don't finish anything like they just they leave it
and maybe more of my fits thinking oh i'll leave this for future episodes they don't actually
finish the storyline and it's what's happening and he's no finish to it and it's like
well you can't have any doors stand alone episode like the next episode which makes no sense to
what they're doing with the the current storyline and you're going this doesn't make any sense
but there's just nothing happening in the storyline the christmas special is horrible i think it's
so so they get your walked up and don't finish your little jokin yeah i know i can write
the storyline to them off at the moment i misspell everything
glad he's leading the show actually would i actually thought they might have canceled it this year
with i think i'm surprised that we're coming back for a second season oh that's pretty
another other go in it i mean the guy has got to be close to running out of ideas
yeah
to question a lot of the old stuff to do what he's doing and that's annoying me because i watched all
the old stuff there's a lot of stuff that this doesn't make sense in the current series like
he's missing with the history i don't really they need a rebate like what star treated
it's quite like i don't like dr who i've got issues with the fact that it's paid for by an
extortion racket but anyway i don't i don't watch dr who what i did see though is if you
seen a movie i think maybe a tv movie called adventures and space and time
it's a bell i don't think i'll sing it though yeah it's um it's about getting dr who off the ground
and then the guy that played the first rock that obviously it's all fictionalized um but i
thought that was actually quite interesting the old guy that they got to play on my niche
layer he really can tanker us and whatever just thought that was that was really interesting as
they sort of conceived the concept of dr who and try to get it greenlit and and manage to do the
first show and really hokey and the sets and things like that and yeah i thought i was good
i've got interest in actually i don't like dr who i thought that was quite interesting i
gotta say this now that has not been a decent doctor who since sylvester mccoy
i don't like my own i thought well then you're wrong
that my brain finished that sentence slightly different and that my brain finished it as there's
not been a decent doctor who since sylvester's the loan
listen back in dr he'd be quiet i mean he'd probably have to wait wait that would get the pandas in
this is why i'll give you the fight you'll give me the fight i'll go no no no no see this
or web if you remember blackin already we are soldier yes
uh we were speaking dr again oh yeah no i'm using a wireless keyboard and it keeps
buffing on me no if if you think back to 1996 sylvester still on already made a mockery
of a great british institution the movie movie you'll need to be more specific only one
judge dread yeah that was an awful movie actually i was i used to read those comments the comics
that was actually quite a bit the bit was awful to read down where's comic redone toward tv series
walking deed possibly she might wife that she i really thought she'd hate the show but um
she we get she get walking dead pretty much the same day now as the ues do and she started
watching the fifth season which is this character season she didn't know any of the characters
nothing she watched the one um actually just saw that play played play press in another tv show
and rewinds actually playing a part which quite interesting um she she saw him and she was the first
y person she watched of walking dead and you know no no the bad stuff no the bad stories and she
was hopped that was it then why haven't I watched show there you go you don't just
i like it like that she'd done that right this brings me to another sort of another segway in
another subject that's kind of tacky again since this is a reasonably tacky type thing
is the idea that the the whole concept between behind if a company makes a tv show think walking
dead or game of thrones or whatever they build a hype and all around the world they want to
market it all around the world every every single time zone every every country every language
they want to market it everywhere so they build this hype around a product around game of thrones
or walking dead or whatever and then they turn around and say to most of the world oh but you
can't get it now you need to wait four weeks or six months or a year before you can get it they
build this hype they build the anticipation and then refuse to sell most of the people the product
and then they wonder why people say you know what stuff you if you're not going to sell as the product
i'm happy to pay for it if you're not going to give me the ability to pay for this product
i'm going to go and get it illegally then i'm going to go and get it from the pilot bay or whatever
and they get on a streaming service or whatever and they complain that they build their anticipation
they build the hype they build the communities and then they wonder why people who they refuse to
sell it to get it elsewhere and don't wait but i think there is a there are a fate on this when
people watching this show anyway i watched i mean i must admit i'm not that i don't like anything
illegally i watched the game of thrones all at once last year and i hadn't watched one episode i
thought there's a couple shows that i'd like to wait wait to see how they go not i'm thinking
i don't get caught up in the hype and i just watch all the way through like i watched pretty much
all four seasons where it was all the way through i'm really going to come but i wouldn't have done
normally like i don't think i would have got into the shag while watching the series on tv like i
could pay pretty much just collect with the hype and wait next to it watching the whole lot
see what the hype is about and i might make my own decision you know i'm up so now i'm watching on tv
the thing thing is though that if you're building in building up a world-wide fanbase not just a
country-wide a world-wide fanbase so game of thrones for example and i've read the books i've never
never seen any of it in the tv episodes and but people all around the world are
who can enter the same thing they all want they all know the characters they've all got their favorite
characters and their favorite scenes and their favorite different bits and pieces and all want to
see such and such and such all wasn't cut such and such cool these are world-wide forums and you
cannot possibly expect people from other countries to be in there with people of like mind their
fellow fans their fellow geeks the people that they they like to converge with they like to chat
with talking about the things that they all love we cannot expect them to say oh my friends
in America are going to see this six months ahead of me or i'll just wait six months before i can
reply so that to see what it is they that they're actually talking about you can't possibly expect
that hey um i think i think i think doctor who of all tv series is one of the shows that shows
that the best yeah and in the age of then on that there's no reason why it should not be a
simultaneous world-wide release or at least on the same day i mean if you're talking about a tv show
it's fits into your time slot to say i don't know ten ten p.m. at night you can't possibly put it
on at ten p.m. in america and one one times on america uh eastern time or whatever and then
expect it to be exactly the same time in australia because it's going to be in the middle of the
morning in australia and it's going to be watershed issues and whatever so within the same day there's
no reason why it should not be anything more than at least the same day release they've got
they've got everything in place to do that there's no reason why they shouldn't do that
well i think um in the case of doctor who it runs into potential more complications because
of uh the licensing issues in england maybe i'm mistaken but i would think that there was a complication
in you know re-broadcasting doctor who to other parts of the world but maybe i'm mistaken
yeah i think right i mean hold the thought um because we've got uh right now to say happy new year
to the united kingdom london cassaplanca Dublin Lisbon and 24 more locations
happy new year happy new year happy who you're a bit slow that uh yay
yeah um yeah no with with the bbc it is funded by the extortion racket funded by the british people
is true however the fact that they license it to other countries shows that they can do it
they just don't want to show i mean what what's the difference if you're going to say that i'm
going to make this program and then sell it in america through bbc america or whatever sell it to
australia or museum or india or south africa or whatever what where's the difference in making
that same day release it's it's the exact same thing um yeah i don't see the difference
they're doing it more and more here now like we i think we did get to who on the same day for the
last two years for the christmas special and they are it is a couple other shows that they're doing
that words so it depends on how popular they are also i think i'm a bit worried about pyrrhing so
easy for them now to screen on the same day um so um you know three four hours later than it is
um you know um so people don't part as much to be honest i don't think i've downloaded too much
stuff illegally all in the last six months because i don't really need to um download musical
download anything online to watch i've never downloaded anything illegally
uh-huh yeah yeah yeah okay for the record it's well given it should i refuse it i'd give a
donate you know what would be a fantastic app for i don't know something like uh uh
my brain's going blank a media center something like that would be a fantastic app and no doubt
this probably exists and i just don't know it um is something that when you're watching a tv show
and you you could press a button and it'll tell you what song is playing at that particular time
in the tune uh and in the program because i've been binge watching gossips creek and i like a lot of
the music in that and i don't know who who who a lot of it is you know so um yeah there's there's a
phone app that you can actually hold your phone up to the speakers and actually get what the song is
yeah it's called kazan yeah i know that i mean what i'm talking about is if there was uh a plug-in
for a media center thing pretty you could actually just press a button and i'll show you um
without you having to do all that i was telling them what the tuners by by by by that artist you know
that that was available as a feature on some cable networks for a while but actually
they stopped doing it because it wasn't getting used enough as you could enter a screencaster
isn't it that it's a screencaster are you sometimes unlocks i was gonna save the app yeah
same name different thing i don't use it much anymore you're just a screen quarter
so you know when that's i was gonna say if the app got if the app got popular enough
there would give you a button for it but it doesn't sound like a very popular feature
you must have draw these on my phone apps that do that on my phone
pretty sure there's some other stuff that that that do it where that you can you can
download and watch a movie uh use the app and actually pick out what songs actually
been playing on it pretty sure you can do that somewhere
face it though we're Linux users we kind of our thing is kind of being smart enough to want
things that most people don't want you're working in the year graphics driver yeah that's true
actually i think even that and the only time i've ever think built compelled that that
that would be a cool feature is when i've been binge watching Dawson's Creek because as i say
i like a lot of the music i like where all their themes in the music not all the music but a lot
of it i do but other than that that feature would never even occur to me and then i probably wouldn't
use it other than Dawson's Creek so yeah here you guys go i just posted a link to the smart pain
that's been paid on it by Apple smart pain new thing why don't i smart watch that work or not
i don't know i'm lost i sort of lost track of that there's there's a jolkley muston there smart pain
as patented by Apple and okay visual jolk i replay music you could probably create a smart pain
that current plays music that would be quite handy uh there's already a pin out there that will
play the music uh play games though you can the pain could order right right across the edge for
you maybe what would happen you could play like notes across this and you could play you know
you could put the x in and what happened the pain would just decide where the where the where the
circle goes you know the killer app for an apple pen would be i composer where you play the part
of a composer in front of an orchestra you know the pen and pointing random things and waving
your arms about and pointing this should be a wee game and for those of us in North America
knots and crosses is tic-tic-toe yeah actually we got away we bought away that was a fricking
stupid phase we bought away 33 years ago at a store in our room we've used it once
we can't sell it like what's the point it's not worth anything yeah my parents got a wee
um for their place and for the and i think it's more to do with some keep fit just some dancing and
sport and this thing is just to keep them active um rather than anything else i mean they are not
gamers they are so not gamers but it's just something enjoyable to keep fit you know i'd have
used the wee much but i found tons of fun stuff to do with the wee remote when i looked it up
to my desktop machine yeah i thought about that i don't i don't know how to do it though
so Scott there are actually kernel level drivers i think the best different how would you plug it
until you can't plug it into ues baport you need a proper connector thing it's bluetooth no it runs
over bluetooth i don't know that oh see we've got one day yeah it just it requires different
the only thing is it it registers as a head device over bluetooth but it has um it sends a few
different types of data you've got the motion data you've got the data from the infrared camera
and they all run kind of differently to a head device but other than that it's fairly easy to do
uh that that this will be one of those um it works kind of the same and it works kind of the same
but it's very heavily proprietary modified no no no no no people basically when when they when
people figured out it was a bluetooth device and it registers as a head device they just sniffed
the they just sniffed the traffic and found all this the data it was spitting out and now there's
a kernel level driver for it has anybody um used a like a playstation three controller with Linux
because those are bluetooth too aren't they yes they there are fairly easy to build drivers for those
as well and the and the xbox 360 controller too actually that was that was a fun one recently
the did you guys hear about i don't know if you any you guys listen to much about indie games
no I'm writing some stuff about that it's like to do with geo j isn't it isn't that going
wrong no no no no no no no no it's now effects being on okay no basically there's a bunch of
guys came up with a goofy game called your hand Sebastian joust and it uses the playstation move
controller which is the motion controller for the the ps3 some of the ball in the end right yeah
exactly does that have motion sensors in it i thought that was all camera recognize like motion
tracking no no it's like the wemo it's a bit of both you have a camera the tracks that the
lit ball but there are there are also motion sensors inside the divide okay and and this is
where it gets funny they decided to do they decided to do a wide release of this game it basically
it plays music from a machine and you have a number of these controllers hooked up to it and the
pace of the music determines how fast people holding the controllers can move and they can just
each other to try and win the game but the the problem was you still had to have these wireless
motion controllers connected over bluetooth and the developers found that they could build working
versions of this game for the original was built on a Mac and they found they could build a
working version for Linux but they got told by a Microsoft engineer because the bluetooth support
under under windows is so shonky they'd never be able to build a working version under windows
i've never heard the word shonky but it's perfect for your use case it's an engineering term
all right on then so there's math yeah it's like that highly technical terms when you look at
something and say that's bugged you divide by zero and it gets shonky i just i just love the fact
these guys were trying to build versions of this game for every platform and they got
outright told by a Microsoft engineer this won't work under windows i'm guessing they were told
that by a very disappointed windows engineer probably because oh yeah but it's it's it's fairly well
known that the bluetooth support under windows is basic at best and it can it can handle hidden
devices like a keyboard or a mouse and it can handle audio devices just but if you're trying to
pump in lots of different types of data via bluetooth it ain't going to work yeah you sound fine man
wow Lorde is in the chat asking if his audio is okay and yeah he's unfantastic man
less time marriage anyway and by the way good to hear from you it's been a while
oh that reminds me Lorde i don't actually sorry i don't actually vlog in google very often so i saw
your message on google plus i don't have very very very used google google plus so hi
hey yeah it's i haven't talked to a lot of people over the last year it seems like you know
what's everything i've been dealing with it's been quite a year
yeah man same here different reasons of course but same thing i feel like i've been way i don't have
been way out of the loop hey i'm i'm the worst threat not good i've got no real excuses so
so far out it's not a loop hey get in target for your connection state out
well i'm yeah i'm not on the pie anymore i mean that it sounds like i'm talking
through a what was it that brome said it sounded like i was talking through a raspberry pie
yeah he wasn't talking about the the piece of the electronic electronic equipment
was talking about the piece of cake yeah well uh just to make it a you know quick story for everyone
i started out the year with a 9.5 centimeter tumor and my abdomen and two in my esophagus
and was diagnosed with stage 4 syphagel cancer at this point the two in my esophagus are gone
and the one that was nine and a half centimeters is down to three and a half centimeters
i'm not on active chemo anymore they just have me on a maintenance routine now
and even that still kind of kicks my butt from time to time
well i said that uh um simply on the end at least
hey it's an upper from where i'm sitting my dad died of esophagus cancer so i'm i'm glad to hear
that you're uh making it through it wow i did not know that's what uh got your father pokey uh yeah
i'm in really good shape pretty much but uh a lot of weird issues that i'm gonna have to
you know deal with and one of the you know hardest things that i got told earlier that this year
was uh the state i'm in right now it was probably about as good as it's gonna get
i kind of misunderstood the doctor very early in the year and thought remission might be a
possibility but uh no i'm never gonna see remission oh no really do that i'm sorry
yeah that's that was kind of uh you know after almost a year thinking hey i'm heading towards
remission for the doctor to kind of tell me that was kind of took the wind out of my sales that day
pretty hard time for a second opinion if you ask me yeah there's uh there are second opinions
have you one have you read Brian uh bishops book uh no i have not would you uh send me uh
you know the name of that book over and shatter something here in a little bit pokey
yeah i sure will but i don't know if you know Brian bishop he's uh bald Brian on the atom growl
the show and he i will not remember the name of the particular cancer he had but it's something in
the towards the base of the brain and he fought it i think he's been fighting it for five years
and it went into remission but um you know it took experimental drugs and and prayer and support
and uh positive attitude and and it was a battle and he's still battling it and he'll never
stop battling it but it um from from all accounts his his book is very positive and and
definitely definitely worth reading uh if if you're facing such a thing or know someone who is
uh sorry for the the plug it wasn't meant to be oh man all information's good information
and you'll have to forgive him for spelling Brian with a why
we uh i can look at these things as the older you get where you've never really
where you've been lucky health wise and you haven't had anything to serious it's almost like
it's storming up for you you're gonna get hurt with something um and something's gonna hurt you
uh and uh it happens the older you are the more you more chances are your lottery tickets
when they come up yeah and um you know with how i'm doing now i think i'm uh kind of i'm
submitted to talk to uh Southern California Linux Expo and haven't heard back yet but neither
have a lot of people i'm kind of hoping to hear that uh i got my talk accepted and i've been running a
GoFundMe campaign which is doing fairly well right now to try to get the funds together to be able
to afford to make the trip out to that conference in February it uh actually kind of
was really disappointing that i missed um being able to go to Ohio Linux Fest because it was right
in the middle of one of my chemo cycles and i just was not feeling up to it physically to go
uh hey lorde i just posted the uh the name of that book and the author in our chat there
would you mind posting us a link to your um your crowdfunding page i'll stick that in the show notes
if you don't mind yeah i've been really really um surprised with how much support i've gotten on
this so far i'm up to $775 i think and um really really grateful to the first person who donated
since they donated it anonymously i will uh leave them at that but i've gotten a lot of you know
like $100 donations and it's just flattered me to see you know the kind of support in getting
on that and just from the whole community through all this
in which uh Linux Fest is it you're trying to get to well i'm sorry i'm typing in here as you're
speaking the southern california and linux xpo aka scale oh and i'm going to come over all
stuff clock these coming on soon and i really haven't explained it on the go fund me too well as
to why i'm asking for the amount i am but just for plain ticket and hotel room alone we're talking
almost a thousand dollars so just kind of from what i've learned from you know talking to some
people who've run crowdfunding campaigns before always better to ask for a little more
than your goal and you know plus because you know fees eat up into that pretty quickly sometimes
and well i'd like to have a little bit of money to eat on while i'm out there
sorry to uh to jump join in the conversation without kind of really listening to what everyone
was talking about before but i just wanted to join you guys and wish you a happy new year from the UK
right on welcome john the nice guy thanks for everything man thanks for uh all the music and and
stuff my my my mp3 player and and the 32 gigabyte micro sd card that's plugged into it is full
because of you i'm glad to hear it um i i i do hope to uh i do hope that you're enjoying most of
the stuff that comes in on there and oh no i'm not exactly my music yeah no hardly i enjoy hardly any
of it but what i do enjoy i enjoy a whole lot but that's just the the nature of a random
you know aggregation type of a of a thing for music yeah sure now i understand that i understand
but uh yeah i just thought you know i've uh just uh come in from from the porch seeing all the
fireworks going off and thought you know what i need to come and say hi guys to say hi to the guys
from hacker public radio so uh yes it's uh it's my my annual stick my head in say hi and then
they'll go forth and be fruitful again for for another 364 and a bit days
awesome awesome um sorry uh lord dragon blue i just posted a link to the etherpad page
and i kind of typed in a little bit probably not uh done the the job that i that should be done
for your for your uh fundraising there if you want to because i'm i'm afraid of you know
saying the wrong thing getting it wrong but if you wouldn't mind just editing what i put there
just a little bit uh i'd appreciate that i'm sure other people might as well
yeah it's uh gonna have to be a little later i'm on my phone right now and i don't have any of my
laptops out and powered up right now yeah for sure for sure thanks man
well i'd tell you my battery died on my phone about the time uh Ken was talking about the right
to be forgotten this afternoon and i left it plugged in in the van and so at least i was
able to hear you guys heading back into town and you know i got really cursed because you guys
were talking about doctor who and then there's you know uh look look like all my favorite people
who haven't gotten the talk to in a while here i was fxb and handsome pirate and uh
polkae of course i haven't talked to polkae since the last time i was on a book club
hey 50 and the john welcome
how much hey hey 51 how's it going oh let's not forget lord d yeah uh oh everything worked out
you know i will stay i got to get back as soon as i expected to this this evening but uh
you know everything worked out in the end so i'm not uh too
terribly disappointed with my progress today you were talking about people that you were
and hadn't seen in a while i hadn't talked to and everything uh i just got an update from
uh plat to's better half he'll be on the show yeah they were saying that earlier
it's funny because you were mentioning before about how uh how you were listening before
um when your battery died whilst you were listening to Ken's right to be forgotten thing
i was listening on the uh the feed at the same time and uh sort of had to drop off to get
various other bits and places sorted out so uh yeah so uh it's weird this timing coincidental thing
random number theory is really fun when they interact
tell you what's weird i've been on here for quite a while and i haven't sworn yet i don't think
try not to i'm really trying i've so far so far i'm running i was seriously gonna ask if you
were going for a record so far i'm running did i'm running it's all it's all a bit context i
don't habitually swear but um in my own podcast i reserve the right to swear um and i make it
clear up front it's not safe or walk um but i'm consciously aware that this is supposed to be a
family family thing so i'm really trying not to swear and so far i'm running uh i don't know
swear from uh to year i would need me if you used to it i can't really keep it around cats
so good horrible did your sister smack you i'm a sister when nearly did the
what i would love to see sometime uh this will web is someone to go back onto some older shows and do
a uh swearing per drink uh measurement on you to see you know how much you're swearing ramp up with
how much you drink they they did it it's parabolic yeah i don't i don't think i'm that bad
and fairness i don't think i'm that bad although actually the one hpr thing that i was really
embarrassed about later on is the whole not listening sweat beans thing i did not have any clue
that i was rambling on so long that only became aware after works after all the fact and yeah
i wish that hadn't happened i thought it was just a quick discussion oh god i didn't
was this so i lost patience with that before anybody yeah tons i left it a lot longer than i thought it
did so i apologize the year after that for that so i was aware that yeah that didn't that didn't go
in real i haven't said that i stand by my point very well no it's funny too because i don't
know if it was before or after that i'm pretty sure it was after that i went ahead and got
at least that drunk on a on an episode of another show which we we dare not name in public and did
the exact same thing and i was so embarrassed about it yeah that's life wasn't that um every
night again you make a complete breakfast of your show um see there again i don't i don't i don't
this way i don't this way i was good this way but i don't this way and you see that i don't
i don't this way um every night again that happens hey that's life i don't suppose anyone
remembers the drink the drinking game i came up with last year i've done pretty well with
not cursing i'm i'm kind of proud of myself no it was the which one was the drinking game now i
forget okay there's this site called linux.fm and it's basically an audio stream of e-speak
reading out the the kernel source code including the comments and so um the comments
you can find word counts of the comments in the linux kernel source that they're fairly colorful
language that's true so every time it comes across a swear you have a drink ah well no
here here's where the rules get a little more complex every time you swear you take a sip
well it's not everything you swear it's everything you hear it's wearing just
yeah but but if the comment is by linux you take a shot that's not too bad i mean for you
well the rules are pretty good that you can remember them while you're drunk that's easy enough
if you if you have to catch the street the stream when it's going through some of the user
level stuff it gets a bit tricky and you might actually run out of drink well isn't that a problem
there because the word linux and the word linux sounds very similar so by the time you get a bit
buried um you can quite easily just hear the word linux and think oh that's linux but i'll
damn i eat take a shot that's it is play at your own risk well if the e-reader is American we
pronounce his name Linus you know like on the peanuts so you could probably keep them separated
okay on the fort or eight peanuts all right sorry but i have something else left i'm sorry i
quickly see that becoming a game that not even thistle web's liver could live through it has taken
practice yeah depends on the segment of code i guess well that's just it is that that stream reads
out the source every time there's a new version you know on on that you know the thing that
can really confuse the hell i mean enough when i first moved over to linux was seeing the fact that
or new kernel and it's called hedges what the what is hedges call it a kernel you know at least
put it in the package manage it with a kernel not hedges that really confuse me well that's not
really just your kernel though hey uh john the nice guy just ducked out and i know i made a joke
about his music but we forgot to or i forgot to give him a plug for his show on his in his website
which is cc hits dot is it dot net oh crap and he gets cc hits yeah so he and i always try to plug
his his website because it's what he does is awesome but he puts out a different creative comments
song every day and if you like it you go to cc hits dot net and vote for it and he his his website
will generate a uh a top list for the week and for the month and and it's awesome and if
enough of us do it it will work yeah it's all about the weekly review show matched yeah speaking
of that i've i've um david cuddling for the book cast been on anytime this evening i'm guessing
you've been listening to hecka public radio at hecka public radio dot org we are a community podcast
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