Episode: 1287
Title: HPR1287: HPR Community News For June 2013
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1287/hpr1287.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-17 23:02:44

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Hello everybody, my name is Ken Fallon and you're listening to another episode of Hacker
Public Radio Community News.
Joining me tonight are Dave Morris, say hi Dave.
Hello, Kevin Wischer, I don't think he's going to be talking and more Gavin, the low-tech
mystic, how are you doing, Morganon, who is having problems with his audio, as we speak.
So as we usually do here on HPR, we'd like to welcome the new members to HPR that joined
us last month and that was one person, and that was Alex Greengore, yeah, I should have
had you do that Dave.
Good show and nice to have him on board, right, last month we ended up with episode 1261,
which was HPR Community News, and that was followed by Mr. Dan Walshko with the Who command.
Any surprises here for you Dave?
No, that's one command I do know.
Dan usually got lots of surprises, this one, this one I did actually know.
Actually, that one called me up because I didn't know where the database was and stuff
like that, so that was a very handy one to know.
No, it's good, it was as usual, lots of information.
Then the following day we had HPR 1263, which was 3G tunnels S Shuttle, timid team, and
in my build chat about 3G connectivity.
I loved this show, I had not a clue about this, and I definitely haven't on my list to
try.
I think also there is a request from Polki for a, well actually looking more for a VPN
solution, but this seems like a very nice SSH proxy type solution.
The next day we had a very, very, very delayed show, recorded by me as the onCamp 11, and
just to give you an explanation of what happened here it was, the tools were not reserved
at the time.
Anyway, the fact is, I didn't record schedule the shows on time, and it was a year and
a half delay in getting the show though, more like two years, and this was an open accessibility
with Steve Lee, which I think is an interesting topic for many here on HPR.
Yeah, it's very relevant to quite a lot of stuff we've heard in the intervening time,
isn't it?
Yeah, it was late, it was late, but that's a sound like I'm getting at you there, but
no.
No, but I am just so embarrassed with this, and yeah, I can't apologize enough.
The following day we had SIGPLOB mitigating SQL injection and other messaging protocols
that text through compiler signatures, and yet again SIGPLOB makes me feel like the
technical and that I have.
She is a tower of genius making all of us seem like duplores.
Yeah, I can't put a grave in that.
Sorry, I don't mean to offend duplores here, I just dwarfing us with her, and it seems
all I just hacked together is something here to messaging protocols against SQL attacks.
If you are doing SQL hardening anywhere, I strongly suggest you listen to this episode
three or four times like I did, and consider implementing this.
Yeah, SIGPLOB has got an amazing insight into compilers and how they work, and she's
using her great skills to come up with these ideas, very impressive.
Very much so.
Okay, the next day was talking to me news, this time it was Dan Moschko and DeepGeek,
and then Ahuka, who is going to be the backbone of HBR for the coming period of time, doing
every fortnight now a LibreOffice series, and this was episode 04, writer styles and properties
number one.
I'm loving these very, very much and should be required listening for anybody who sits
down in front of a computer, in my opinion.
Absolutely, yes, yes.
I would strongly recommend sitting in front of LibreOffice instance while listening to
it.
I certainly find it helpful myself to wander through everything and look at the dialogue
boxes, et cetera, but nights, it's very, very good.
Then we had David Wittman with What's in My Bag, and this is a series started by Davi
Yates, some time ago, and just describes your daily carry, all the technical stuff, all
the stuff that you carry around with me.
I thought this was fantastic.
It was also shocked that the mountain stuff he has in his bag, the mountain, take it, this
is my dish and my death, and he just kept going on, it's four months back, must be broken.
Yes, yes, I was lost for words, really.
This is amazing.
Have a Mac.
Yeah, I'd like to do one of these myself, but I was looking at my own bag, and it's, yes,
I do carry around the whole stuff in it, but I never use it, the only thing I use really
is my laptop.
Actually, I need to do that episode, and you probably heard in that shortly, he raised
we're going with chills.
Then we had the much requested Frank Bell Enlightenment Adventures at E17 Part 2, and then that
was followed the next day by a special request for a show date by John Cope, which was an
interview with his dad for Father's Day, which we released on the Friday before Father's
Day.
That was a very nice touch, and a very, very interesting interview, almost say.
Yeah, I love that, it's a, I wrote a short email to John saying that was congratulating
him only on the show and sort of sending good wishes to his father, and it sounds like
quite a hacker in his own right.
I think they were quite worried at the beginning whether it was going to be of interest to
hackers, and it definitely was, I couldn't listen to that band talk, both of them talk,
and they really envied the Father's own relationship going on there, and then we had a, all I can
say, is a lost and bronzed style essay, really, on out of style or retro chic by nightwise
re-looking at some of the technology and looking to see whether should we simplify our lives
and really use some of our all gadgets that are perfectly good.
Yeah, but I thought that was a really nice, nice point of view, he had there, should say
that I've just been going through a process, because I like using MP3 players, and they
can't go out after a while, I'm now up to about my fourth generation of these things,
and I thought, I'm not going to buy another one, I'm going to scour eBay and grab some
old ones, once it will take rockbox, and so it was just, I was just in the middle of that
when I heard this episode, I thought, wow, I must, it's, the message he was sending
there, I thought it was very, very profound.
It was quite apt actually, because I was cleaning the cellar of all my computer kit as part
of, by part of the major projects, like changing a light bulb, and to change the light bulb,
you need to do this, and change that to you to do that, but I had just like a whole big
bag full of obsolete computer equipment, and because of the show, I went back out to
the bag and, you know, re-solved a few things that I thought, no, I can't show these
away, I've got to, I really have to do this project, but actually with the whole Raspberry
Pi now coming along, I find it hard just to fly running a big server, you know, and I
can run something a little less powerful, maybe, using a lot less power.
Oh sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Which, if you assume that, then you don't need PCI cards, you don't need, you know, VGA
cards, you just got the Raspberry, everything is on the Raspberry Pi, so it makes a lot
of technology, absolutely, really, as such, then to my shame, Nathan Dumont on open source
hardware, and I hope that he did mention on Twitter that, you know, the Raspberry Pi.
I'm sorry, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding, you did, you missed clat, you missed clat,
you missed clat, as you said, 1272, you should be on, I think, yeah.
1272 was open badges, and he did this with Miss Copcake, what's her name?
Ah, and I got it.
And I got a copcake, I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that, it's cute, and deadly.
Excuse me, well, okay, yes, this was, the road had a very good point, and they pretty
much nailed it for me.
What's the point of these badges, you know, surely GitHub repository, or a Gatorious
the position would be of more merit to people, I guess.
Yeah, I didn't. My notes here seem like a daft idea to think they pretty much summed it up.
Yes, and then the following day we had Dan with Kat, and I think there was only one or two things I
didn't know about this one, this one I felt cheated down. No, I discreet I should. I did not know you
could number things with Kat. Everyone knew that. No, no, no. When you see I'm so old,
I'm so ancient that when Kat was invented they didn't have a number switch on it. So when I learned
it back in my day, we didn't have number switches. We had to write them in ourselves with a pen.
You were lucky. I'm not screaming today.
Yes, but yeah, I know that it's good. As always, Dan's always opening the lid on these things and
showing us stuff that we could find ourselves if we just went and read the man pages. When do you?
I mean, I don't. I think that observation was made by Kato, he feels like Dan was cheating
as all because he's just telling stuff that's already there. But hey, we're all your listeners,
we're all your learners folks. That's why we listened to podcasts. Yeah, absolutely.
Somebody's going to go to the trouble of doing a podcast, writing up excellent show notes that
are readable unlike many of the man pages and fairness, which he reads. And and doing a video on
top of that, you know, he's covered all the bases. There is no excuse not to know the commands.
Man pages can be amazing in penitimate and Dan's translated them in many cases. That's great.
No, I can't fault him. No, well, not for that. I can fault him for many other things.
Not for that. Geo, whatever, springs to mind.
Nathan Dumont on open source harder. And again, this is a pity that this one was taken so long
because in the intervening times, there's been a lot of stuff done with with Raspberry Pis.
And at the time, they came out, I thought there would be not complimentary, but I've seen many,
many projects that use pies in combination with our journals to achieve very interesting projects.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and by the way, there's a series on HBO, which hasn't has no entries yet,
because I have not told anyone that there's a series in HBO. And we need a cool name on,
how I hacked my Raspberry Pi, so send in stuff. Then we had a hooker again with
anything else you want to say to you? No, sorry, sorry, go ahead.
And then we had a hooker again with LibreOfficeRiderStiles property too. I'm not going to go into
his shows anymore. They're just tickets as red that you need to listen to these and you need
to follow along. It's required reading. Then one I really put a smile on my face was two hacker
public radio whole speed to face to face for the first time. How awesome is that? That's very cool.
That was very cool. Pictures too. And a cat. And the cat. I mean, it's got everything.
Very good. No, it's brilliant. It's one of the things I love about, about Hacker Public Radio
and the podcast world in general is, you know, these insights you get into people and the
way that they do things and, you know, it's good. You're just walking around with a bit of hardware
in your pocket and a pair of headphones on and all of a sudden you find out, you know, interesting
things like this. I think it's great. I do have a dream. You know, I'm, you know, of going,
you know, doing the Winnebago Coast to Costa America, I think. And it will happen, you know,
we will go to Disney Land, of course, or whatever it is. There are a few things obviously.
But I think my trip will be from one podcaster's home to the next, to the next, to the next.
You know, I'll do a, but already Peter 64 has done that. Yeah, yeah. He just following him.
His footsteps. He covered some grand, didn't he? Oh, yeah. Lucky, lucky.
And yes, I'll camp 11, interview with Marie Allyson Assen from Flatter and again, apologies. Hang on,
Ken, did you skip one again? I did. Glad to. Yes. I'm going to do it tonight. Anyway,
Icecast 102 from Clat 2, the much-weighted follow-up to Icecast 101. Both of those are required
in this thing if you're into Icecast. Yeah, I listened to both of them avidly, but I still haven't
fully absorbed all the details. I really want to listen to this again and again and set the
damn thing up because it sounds really cool. Exactly. Something that needs to be done.
And Poki's just joined. Say hello, Poki. Hello, Poki. We're just, we're just going through the
episodes. We're up to episodes 12, 7, just seven. Icecast 102. Any comments?
Well, sorry, I'm late, fellas. I didn't realize what time it was. I had a little bit of crisis
at home. I had to deal with the icecast one was excellent. There's been several lately,
whether they were the HPR or a couple of other shows that have been on like Icecast and
ISIS and but and very interesting stuff. And I keep keep thinking that I should do something
with them and I I hope to. You know, it's like I was telling my kids as you do.
We are. I was telling my wife actually that we could in the neighborhood here put in like a
broadcasting thing where you could broadcast out on a low FM low power FM transmitter around
the neighborhood and use icecast to schedule all this stuff. And people, you know, they just take
it for granted these young ones. Yeah, this stuff is so cool. Yeah, I just think it's so cool.
It's pretty much that. Sorry. It is very cool. I mean, even even mumble every time I connect to
mumble. It's not awesome. And you can talk to anybody anywhere anytime you want and all they
have to do is install a little piece of software. And it's also hard for some people.
Most people get it and then I do it. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't 15 years ago that it still cost
you quite a bit of money to call the next town over if it was, you know, out of your area code or
something, you know, I mean, at least here it was. It's it's just crazy. Here we have to pay for
local calls. So, you know, it's still do. But exactly that. I mean, now my wife has given
teaching some kids who are going to migrate to the States and they're getting English lessons.
They already speak English and they're and we were just wondering, well, why don't they just go
on a mumble server and talk to some American kids, you know, that hang out and, you know, there's
so many resources available. But anyway, that's that's beside the by the by skipping over
briefly that I delayed an augcast aug camp interview with Marie Ascent from Flatter for two years.
But I should have put that out because I really enjoyed that that recording that talking to
her. I was reading it. It was a great, great show that one. I enjoyed that. Flat is so cool. I was
actually contributing to my monthly contributions to people. That's how it's listening to it
go incidentally. It's great. Hey, why don't why doesn't HPR have a have a flatter button,
by the way, in a particular reason? Because HPR relies on is solely funded by Stankdog and Stank
doesn't want contributions. But if you have money burning in your pocket, please consider supporting
the ACF. That's my personal request. Yeah. Yeah. Accessible computing foundation by our good friend.
Oh, indeed. Yeah. And flying, flying rich wants to do something with funding the ACF as well.
He's openly to put together a fundraiser with Jonathan. I don't know the details or if he's
published them yet. I'm a little behind in my my tilts and all my podcasts really. But he looked
like he was trying to get something going. He was that serious because he said he wanted to raise
a ten or a hundred grand, something incredibly ridiculous. I thought he said a hundred thousand,
which is reasonable if you're talking about hiring a developer for a year. No, no, I get that.
Well, I and what he said until it was a hundred thousand would fix all the accessibility issues in
the I think he said in Libra office. Yeah. Okay. That because Jonathan had previously found out
how much work there was necessary to do it. It was four two weeks work of so many developers.
And I guess he has figured out that that's going to be a hundred thousand. But if you look at the
fundraiser that we just did and all the plugin we did here on HPR and all the other shows did
and we barely scripted it and what was it? If you'd rather than our twelve. Yeah. More power to
them if you can. I'm right behind them. More power to them if you can. Yeah. He sounded serious
up until that point and then he said something about, you know, paying to stay in on air until people
paid enough, you know, to take a break. But at that point, I know he was being facetious. So I don't
know what he had in mind. But yeah, but he, you know, let's just see what happens and hope that he
does come through with goods. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, the following day was hosted by Alec and David
you'll finish this off for me, please. Alec Gregorian. Thank you very much. I don't believe anyway.
Gregorian has everybody should know I'm slightly dyslexic and heavily can pronounce all the people's
names with Ross. Now, now you've got me Pavley Check, perhaps? Okay. Ross Pavley Check. He was also
on Tills about the Zen Project. And this was a recording that he made as I can't remember what the
first was. Did Texas something was not? Yeah, the Texas language. And that folks, if you're going
along to any of these shows and got a recorder with you, you don't need any special permission to
become a HPR host, man of the hour, woman of the hour, person of the hour, you just pick up your
recorder and shove it in front of somebody's face and say, yeah, so you're going to do a talk here.
Why are you here? And then they have no choice but to talk. Home antennas by John Culp,
who is on my Christmas card list because he sent in a reserve show and anybody who has sent in a
reserve show gets on my special list. I don't exactly know what that means, but this one was
home made antennas for over the year high definition TV. Very good. Very cool. Nice pictures to go
along with. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's some good links there to stuff I didn't know about.
I want to go ahead, sorry. No, no, it's going to take out and check those pictures. The episode
was really interesting and I built a couple of really remedial antennas for stuff over the years
and I would like to check the pictures I didn't realize there were some. He did a very nice
merging of the two channels, the two antennas for two specific ranges and then merged them in
which is pleasure, which I thought was quite interesting. Anyway, the next day we had another show
from Nightwise and Nightwise, although he runs a Nightwise promo for his own podcast, which you
definitely should be listening to, was that was commenting on the Samsung Premier, which was quite
funny. What these are shows specifically released 4HPR just so that everybody is
completely aware of that. And that also marked the first day where we switched from the previous
scheduling system to the new first-in, first-out scheduling system. Then we had, and it also
explains why we have some initials from John Colton in the same week, is because hey,
first come first served, he got the slots and there they are. My home made recumbent bike,
if you haven't seen the photos, you really need to see the photos as well, look along with this,
it's fantastic. I haven't heard these ones, I'm afraid. Oh, sorry, shall we stop there? Or
might be a good idea, restrict to a month. Okay, let's do that. Each community of seniors might
be wise, I don't know. That's fine, but before we start, just since we mentioned it, I want to say,
I love this one. This gets added onto my personal list of my favorite HPR episodes ever. I
don't know how long that list is, and I don't limit it to any particular number, but this is on
there. I really loved this one. I've written a recumbent bicycle before when they were like
really, really new in the mid 80s. My uncle came home with one and I tried one out, and it was
fantastic. And building your own stuff and brazing and all that, I was riveted by this episode,
I couldn't get enough of it. Yeah, completely agree. It brought out the mechanical engineer
in me. And the Dutch person in me, the handlebars, the recumbent bikes here always have the steering
well, seem to always have the steering wheel as a pivot underneath the seat. Much more comfortable
that way. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know, is that normal to have the handlebars like a chopper
handlebars? I would say not. I maybe a third or a quarter of them have the big tall handlebars,
like that, the ones that I've ever seen on the road. The only one I ever rode had the handlebars
under the seat, and most of them that I see have the handlebars under the seat, and I just from
riding bicycles and motorcycles and that kind of thing, I would say that the chopper handlebars
would probably tend to make your hands fall asleep after a little while, depending on how high they
are. You get OK. So that's pretty much for the shows. So if you want to stop there, we can.
I did make a mention that we've switched to the new scheduling system, which is essentially,
well, actually, there's a little done on the website over the last last while I don't know if anyone
noticed it or not. I checked out a couple of things. It's looking good. I mean, I see
small improvements, but I haven't had time to really dig in. Sorry. No, that's fine. All I
really did, I wanted to make some sort of change to because I had done quite a lot of work on the
way. Well, let's go back here. What's happened now is that we've switched to a completely
my pages and all the inputs on the strangers, the life listening to some music. Yes.
Oh, it's way different. Look at that. I didn't see that. I looked the last time you asked people
to look. I didn't see that all the navigation had moved to the right hand.
You know, just to throw it out there as somebody who's kind of been gone for a
and something. You're breaking up terribly, man. Start over, please.
Get on the website as that did last night. I kind of go through and just to see how much
has changed. All you guys deserve some mage or kudos. There's some awesome work going on.
Okay, let me try again. I'll walk outside. I'm on my cell phone. I'm at work. Sorry, guys.
Which is what I was going to say is, okay, good. Yeah, like I really haven't been involved
with HPR for about four years or more. Last night was probably the first time I'd really kind of
checked the site. I keep HPR at my feed, but I don't go to the site. And yeah, the site has just,
it's amazing to see how much it's grown and all the little improvements and just major kudos to
all the work that's gone on there. It's awesome to see such a big change from what it was in my mind
the last time I looked at it. Okay, thanks. Well, actually, from a looking field point of view,
it's pretty much what it was four years ago. I just moved. I did a magic piece of CSS now that
and moved the menus over to the other side and pretty much everything else from me. However,
one of the major changes now is that, and I'll read it from the scheduling rules, HPR scheduling
is entirely community driven. All the shows are scheduled on a strict first-in, first-out basis.
Slots will only be allocated once the shows have been successfully processed.
Any missing information will result in the shows missing. It's my result in the show missing
it's requested slot. Once a slot has been allocated, it is not possible to move them. Now,
what that means is if you go to the calendar page as we all do, what you see there is upcoming shows.
We have Friday was 12.85 as we're recording this. Libra offers writer. But what you see is that
the Monday show has already been posted. The Tuesday show is still available and we will probably post
the community news on Tuesday. The Wednesday show is his needy-amidian Ken goes camping. So,
what that means is Dave Morris and myself and myself will be on two shows in the one week,
three shows in my kit, I don't know, two shows in the one week, which is entirely allowed now
because it is the community not anybody on the admin mailing list or anybody stanker anybody
else. It is whoever you are if you pick a show number or a show date in your upload. Then that's
when the show is going to be released. It's going to be processed and posted as that show on the
server immediately. Does that make sense, Dave? Yeah, so far so good. So essentially what you can do is
if we look down the list, hit VR 1350 and we're currently asked 12.85. So 13.15 is actually on the
web server. If you click the link, you get the show notes for 13.15 and using the magic of HTML 5,
you can press the listen now button and you can hear the show.
Press it. Is there a feed for the future ones, can you do it better? No, I intend to do it.
It's just I don't intend to have more pressing things like the FTP upload. That's nice to have
their feed. All right, so I've been under a rock for a little bit. So I might have this might be
a stupid question, but no, it's good because I want people asking questions. All right,
right on how can you explain to me, what's the, all right, so I know that the processing has changed
and it seems like the uploading has changed as well. Is that correct? What are we doing now?
You're still sending it to the FTP server as we speak and the FTP server password has changed.
Okay, I need to know that. Okay, and I know that we still prefer a flag, but we'll accept any format
that someone can produce. That's still correct. Yep, that's still correct. Okay, and the file
wants to be accompanied by a by the show notes. Yes, text file, show notes, yes.
A text file. Okay, and you want that with HTML tags if possible? No, I don't. No, okay. No,
first of all, I want the flag file. If you've got a flag file or a wild file, a flag is fine.
If you've got a flag file, put the intro and outro into it. Yeah, if you want, I would prefer it if
you did. Okay, and then I would prefer it if you sent a text file with links because HTML is
tricky to write and the HTML that we're using needs to fit into other HTML so it gets more
complicated. So if you know what you're doing with HTML, that's fine. Send it to me, but what ends
up happening is I get HTML that's got lots of errors and then I spend more time correcting the
HTML that it would have taken me if it was just simply given to me as a text file because we can't
use, we can't use links like here's the link to and the link to the picture is here. Yeah, because
when that's rendered on players that even support HTML, all they'll see is here hit your e. So we
have to go the rent and this link here to this HDB column forward slash example.com forward slash
my picture dot dot jpeg and then that allows text-based pod rendering podcast renders to display
the show notes and they will interpret that link as a link and that's clickable. So it's stuff
like that just makes it more difficult for me to edit to get the show notes together if you're not
yet. Yeah, I get that. But if you do know HTML, then that's fine. If you're going into a
whizzywegg editor and you're formatting it in Libro office or whatever, don't bother. Just send
it to me as a text file like you would write an email in text format and just send it to me.
Okay, and then if we add the music that's to be noted in the the show notes is that something
that system automatically recognizes and and deals with or doesn't deal with or is that still
is it done manually? Right now, one on one second. So right now when you upload your show,
you are asked at the top to say give your host name and email address.
You're the title of your show. Your desired slot, which can be the next available slot or a date
or an absolute number or backup show. I don't care. The next line is has the intro been added
just to know and then we have series tags and is it explicit or clean? Then you have a Twitter
summary, you have sample show notes and then plain text show notes. Then your regular show notes,
yeah. And it's the same for the sample show notes that text file. So yeah, what that means is
then I can just look at the uploaded text file and then I go, okay, I don't need to have the intro
and I can just compile it with it without the intro right there and that. And then what we're going
to do then is we're going to modify the script because we now know the episode number and we know
the days that it's going to be released. We're going to burn that into the tags as well and we can
also post it as that show tarry.org, a web file of the show. So we take the show and we add the
intro and outro from the flag and we produce a measuring web file and from the web file,
we produce the MP3 organ speaks and potentially a opus file later on. And then we have the
measuring file which the web file, which is the complete show, we can then send to archive.org
who just been working on proof of concept to get that working from a script which kind of works.
And once that's gone, then we can remove the flag and whatever. We copy the processed feed files
over to the server and then we go and we post the show right there and then both we give it the
days and the episode number. So the regular feed and when you go to the main website, it just filters
everything in the past. So today or in the past is just shown, but everything else is available.
Got it. Got it. Clear. Which makes it, which explains why it's going to be very difficult to change
your show with somebody because it's not going to be easy to slot in a show. Oh, I need to go to
show out on Monday, move everybody down one because all those shows have already been gone. So
everything on the calendar right now, if you look at the calendar, we see one, two, three, four
shows in there. Sorry, one, two, three, four, five shows in there already scheduled. Those numbers
are allocated. So I can't I can't bump everybody down one because those those are already done.
And it also means that I no longer need to come up to think about it every day. The show just comes
out. I actually hear the show way after everybody else does because I know Dave is monitoring it
and will email me if there's any problems. Nice. So actually what the other I had a few days
off where I was working on the website and the website need the database of the website and
the structure of the database needed to be changed in order to facilitate this because I needed to
change all the queries to put in a now or in the past query and on everything and needed to change
the auto indexing of the database tables. And I also needed to change all the forms and all the
everything that we used to post the shows so that they would pick the correct dates and find
the next available slot and that's sort of for the automation that's just coming. And my three days
of vacation, well, not vacation time was like time and loop came up and then that's as far as I
got. So I was working on the FTP uploader so that is easy in the process. So the whole plan here
will be you do the FTP upload thing, you'll fill you'll fill in the required fields for that form,
you'll attach your your flag, you'll say yes, it's clean, yes, I've got the intro and outro,
the title is my wonderful show, the show notes are this, here's a list of the links,
and you press send, it'll upload it, then the script will check for new uploads, it'll find that,
it'll see in the in the XML file that your web form has turned into. Yes, the show notes,
the intro has been added so I won't add the intro, it'll compile us and places in a holding area,
then it'll email the admins, the admins will have a listen to it and then approve it,
you know, listen to it for not from an editorial point of view, listen to it for a is this spam point of
view and quality control of course. And then if they get to go, if we click on the OK link or whatever,
then it'll be posted to hvr, they actually be added to the hvr database, it'll be posted to
archive.org and then the source files will be deleted because they're on archive.org and they
drive files are available on hvr website, will it be job done? And then I intend to have a script
that will modify, will monitor the queue, determine how many shows are left in the queue and start
emailing people if we start at the beginning of a week, have a week where there are free slots,
like next week for instance, so doing the bugging people for shows thing that I'm doing,
because it's not me anymore that's filling up the queue, it is everybody else that's filling up the queue.
Must be a little bit of relief for you? Well, it never was me filling up the queue,
it never was me scheduling anything because we had the scheduling rules, so I was just following
the schedule rules, but this is much, much simpler. Somebody uploads the show and they say,
I want episode 1292. So the upload three shows I want is on this Monday, I want us on the following
Monday and on the following Monday, and then those slots if they're available are allocated,
job done, and then all we need to do is fill in the if people upload first available slots, then
the chances are you'll actually, you know, be filling in the cracks in the schedule as opposed to,
you know, particular time. So I think it'll be nice for like, Ahuka's released a lot of shows,
and they're all spaced out. Tatoo tends to release shows in batches, which we can release out,
and then that still leaves free slots for people to fall between the cracks, so to speak.
Now, where may I download the links to the intro outro?
They are in the sample show notes, and on contribute, you can see a link.
Okay, good deal. Thank you. So on the sample show notes, you'll see intro and outro,
and they're in HPR, hackerpublicradio.org, forward slash media, and then team music, intro.
And you don't have to pick the two that's there, you can use whichever ones.
I'm thinking of making those links random ones, you know, that's people of some
midget, but that's entirely, that's entirely nice to have some way of more important things,
like it in the FTP of those. So I'm still not in trouble for using the alternate music?
No, no, no, I think it's cool. Whatever you want. Thank you too. I love that music.
I think, ah, Tatoo has a point about the intro. The intro should still be the
day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, and one. But, you know, you can feel free to
truncate it down to day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, you know, the first
bar of it, and then, you know, you don't have to put in the full two minutes of there. The only
thing you do have to do is tell me if you put the intro and outro in it, because certain people
like to put the outro hat three quarters of the way in and then put the outtakes behind,
not pointing at any of the people. Those passages. But if they were,
they're shown intro, outro added yes in the show notes, I'll forgive them.
I did that. I did that last time. Yeah, you do, you do, you do. Thanks.
Wasn't my fault. I had to put that conversation after the outro. It happened after we
ended. What else was I supposed to do? Exactly. Yeah. No, I could have listened to that. You could
go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on talking with him.
So is that clear for everybody? Everyone's happy? No thing is the only thing that I'm failing to see
on the calendar page is I don't see is there a queue for shows that are going to
automatically fill in these available spaces or are we going to be missing days here? Yes,
we're missing days here. Oh holy shit all right well I'm editing because I've got three recorded.
And that is exactly the point. This is this is the view of the world that I have had in my head
because this is how I've seen the HPR calendar. Oh yeah me too. You know what? It's very good too.
You'll see now that there's and this this is something I am working on right now. So
hackablebegravio.org forward slash stats.php and it's best if you view source because it's
actually a text file. This page is something I'm working on for two reasons. One is that people
are going to events and conferences and stuff and want to know you know some stuff some stats
from HPR. A lot of what is you know when did it start? It started seven years six months,
22 years ago. It was renamed to HPR five years three months and 29 days ago. It's a total of
16,000 and 85 shows and total of which 300 are today with a techie shows and 1385 are hackablebegravio
shows. There are 190 HPR host. There are three three three days until the next free slot.
There are three hosts in the queue and there are 12 shows in the queue. Now this is the if you
look at the at the calendar as it stands now we have a free slot on Tuesday at Thursday and Friday.
Yes we have 12 shows in the queue. So this is what has has thrown people I think a lot
about you know the whole queueing system and the argument about it. So the point is now
a hookah shows are slotted in every two weeks. They go on for I don't know until December every
two weeks but that leaves lots of slots for other people to take up the slack. Now hookah said yes
that you will contribute chills if nobody else does but you know additional shows and top of that
but that's time for people to you know start contributing shows. It is it but there's no link on
the calendar page here to see the shows that are in the what would we call it the failover queue
I don't know I call it. Not at the minute but I mean that can be put there was I was
and I limited a number of weeks here just to make it readable so yeah of course it goes on
and on it goes on down to December and I didn't really need to put it to December to give you
the idea that yeah every there's on a Friday there's a Libra office episode and there's a week
of available slots almost a week of available slots and then another Libra office episode.
So kind of there's no rules now we used to have rules like the new hosts are bombed but that doesn't
that's not going to happen anymore we used to have a rule where there was community news we go
to the first Monday of the week that's not happening anymore we had a rule where slots were reserved
for an event that's not going to happen anymore so and we had like talking to me news or whatever
and Linux in the shell they will need to be all slots manually by people so for Linux in the
shell I guess Dan can just kind of skip up two weeks and then find an available Tuesday and then
pop it in there you know just record a buffer of shows and then release the months he's ready
and that should take care of him till keep to mean news might be a little bit more might have a
bit of a delay there make sense yeah yeah I just and so despite having 12 shows in the queue
we are in trouble because we have three three free slots next three what is what is
since it's not here on the page and I am curious what is the reserve queue look like
I think it's I don't know one or one second talk among yourself well if we're talking among
ourselves welcome back we're going I've missed you Van you on me show hey it's nice nice to be back
missed everybody how was your uh was it in our do we know powered garden waterer is it
is that what it was how's that doing uh it got about halfway done and then uh life happened
so uh but yeah things are things are better now so I expect to be working on projects and stuff
so uh but yeah I do have I have at least two HBRs lined out and probably a third I'm been on this
big Android kick here recently and I've been trying to do as much as I can on my Android devices
so uh like I've downloaded some audio recording software blah blah blah so we'll see if I can
do a full podcast and edit and all that on Android device and uh I'll probably do a show and share
the results of that experiment as well so maybe that'll make a third one cool that is awesome
having you to my invisible you only assure me that's we have six backup shows okay all right
so at the rate we're going we would have one two two four five six we'd be out by the uh Thursday
week so nobody should get complacent especially over the summer it gets really really hard to build
these slots yeah if they were on this calendar page can I'd like to request just a you know maybe
even just a single line that just says we have x number of backup shows why would that affect anything
um because I think people look at this page and just assume that there are backup shows to fill
in here because we've discussed it but if people know the real number then they can say oh we are
in trouble and it is my turn to step up yeah but I'm one of those people no okay yeah yeah sorry
I would have yeah but I weighed out against that's what got me here
I weighed that up against the people who look at the calendar and go oh there are no backup shows
this is it as I did I did for the backup shows to be a crutch in anyway I prefer to schedule them
now and just let that they dice fall where they may because with the backup shows we I'm still
retaining some sort of you know funky Ken can save us feeling and it would just be better to
display the calendar as it is this is what it is there are no backups these are the shows
yeah all right so listeners we are in dire straits please send in your shows like I said I have
three recorded but it takes me forever to edit so I don't count on my three until you hear them
there you go the only other thing I would um I will I'm considering doing now is
I was talking to Nido today and he's going to be at we are doing the official press
conferencing as observed make hack which is a a large every four years
and event here in the Netherlands a big hacking scene thing and we're going to be official press for
that and we're getting a daily FM radio slot to broadcast um an hour of content an hour of
discussion an hour of interviews or whatever where we will be interviewing people in that actually
I don't know if I'm allowed to say that yet but anyway we are too late now because I don't edit sorry
Nido um and he has requested me that okay for a reserve slot for that event but in line with
what we're saying is while we don't reserve slots anymore so this is a bit of a problem
what's the uh the website for that event oh H M dot uh hold on one second okay so it's
observed hack make oh H M 2013 dot org okay cool I can't wait to hear those shows that sounds like
the coolest thing I'm not happy to be missing that I the last time I went camping I had a back
hernia and uh had to go through surgery so I am not looking forward to camping oh geez man get a
caught or an inflatable mattress or something no they don't work an inflatable mattress I end up
lying on the cold floor in a fracking cloud uh or you know where it's leaked and the whole thing
is wrong you know I can't get out because it's like this fluffy cloud that's developed to me
or a cotton invariably have this center rim thing that uh that's half a dome uh tent
and I hear I'll probably stay at a hotel and just just you're all around in the mud before I come
out tent and rough oh that's cool yeah I don't hurt yourself I I was if you were gonna sleep in a
field I was you know who was saying get something uh I don't know I prefer the inflatable mattresses
but they are it's not wise to rely on them you you should always have like a camping mat with you
and maybe even use it on top of the mattress okay I think we've uh talked this to death
shall we move on sure so other stuff that was on the mailing list which I still haven't got
around to put it on to somewhere that everybody can see has been a large discussion about the
opus um blackfeed uh discussing the um opus and one flagfeed instead which uh it was proposed by
epicanus but um just so everybody knows there is no um we're not going to be having a
flagfeed on at least they hit your website because the amount of uh everything that that would
consume those just enormous yeah that was a crazy idea when you consider that someone's paying
for the storage space and bandwidth not that it's I mean it's a nice idea if someone wants to use
the stuff but uh yeah difficult to pull off I think a happy camp a happy compromise now is that we
um will put their web file up on to um archive.org and anyone who wants to run their own flag
and file or run a feed of that can do so can you know can get the original source with the
intro and ultra from archive.org it was also a discussion of whether we would move to a single
um opus feed uh in epicanus we're working on that and they uh yeah I'm not sure the the only one
constrained that they seem to be uh thinking was that there was um um was the um the file size
and that is the very reason that I have the uh speaks there and all is because of the file size
there are people who are on very very low bandwidth connections and can get a speaks file where
they can't get a uh org file so that is of prime importance to maintaining that.
Yeah I like the idea I don't know if the world is ready for opus but uh somebody's quickly the way.
I'd love to do us not a problem but it's hard for me to sell that to to stank and uh and uh
Josh you know who are paying the cash everyone to while we've got an MP3 feed because yeah we have
to have an MP3 feed we've got a speaks feed because there are people on low bandwidth you know okay
it's small enough that we can suffer all right put on this free uh codec which you've got
just called org okay we'll do that because we support freedom oh and now there's a better free
codec okay good you know and so it's just a hard sell to add 20 gigabytes of data and
you know to the to the thing when we already have a free codec but yeah it's a discussion
and that's fine if at a certain point the mailing list decides that everybody can handle opus
then I would suggest we well I suggest now that if you want if if the low quality speaks feed can
handle opus files if those people who are listening on the speaks feed can handle opus uh where the
file size will not increase then we could switch to opus there and then at a point when everybody
feels that everybody listening on org can support opus as well then we should perhaps switch to that
as well it's not a bad plan yeah it's as particular as we can get for now maybe in a few years
you know the file size won't be that uh that's big then we had um somebody suggesting bit torrent
sync for hpr poke convinced me of this well I don't know if I was trying to convince anybody
of anything I was just thinking about it as an idea because uh one of the ways that bit torrent
sync can operate is uh what they call I believe they're calling it a one-way sync and basically what
it means is only one of the peers on the sync are it's allowed to write to the sync to add files
or remove files um and if and then every other peer on the network or on the torrent uh then
is just sharing bandwidth and uh well really just bandwidth is the only advantage and it just seems
like a neat way to get around having uh you know so much bandwidth uh piped out of the main server if
we you know just picked one particular thing stuck it on there and uh it just sounded like it would
save some bandwidth you finished are you talking to somebody else now I just got a call over your
back I'm sorry okay well we'll we'll come back to this when uh when pop is back um then we had
several discussions people requesting passwords and um me asking for sanity text for the hpr site
because we did an upload um I also got permission from they um from stank and josh to upload they
to increase the upload size are on the hpr website to have a gigabyte which will allow us to
upload um pretty much every show that we've had uh since you know how quality shows have been
delivered to us so five twelve meg it's been pretty much normal you know i'm wouldn't
compose normal size and if you want to go higher than that then we can do it via ftp or we can do
it some other way as well so that was one of the major stumbling blocks blocking the the continuation
of the the upload form and more discussions about uh high priority shows and stuff and um about
whether shows could be reserved which they can't be anymore and that's pretty much it
anyone else could anything nothing here i actually wanted to talk to uh to poke about the
bit torn back sorry okay cool uh perfect timing we were just going to finish it off the what's
on the mailing list and i wanted to talk to you about the bit torn and give i don't know if it's
ever been if i've ever explained it to people are why p why is p's hate bit torn so much
do you like a quick five minutes or not yeah sure i mean i i understand why why is p's hate bit torn
and basically the clients don't understand uh the distance involved with the peers that they're
sharing with i get that um and if you take sorry go no go ahead go ahead okay just for people
how the internet works if you look at the diagram and university i guess is you've got your local
ISPs and they connect to a national ISP and the national ISP will connect to a regional ISP
and the regional ISP will connect to a global ISP and this is how traffic
theoretically is spread around the internet but what actually happens is two local ISPs in a town
for instance we'll run a cable between each other's head end and they will go well if your
users are usually mailing my users so we'll we'll put this cable in in between and we'll pay for
our router and you pay for your router and we'll share the price of the of that interconnection
because that means we put out the the guy and the national level we don't have to talk to the
regional ISP and then that happens open up and open up and chain what also happens with is with
people like Netflix for instance they started using a lot of bandwidth and now what they're doing
is they're putting file servers into the ISP's data centers so that when you go watch a Netflix
movie it is distributed one time over the more expensive line oh and I want to tell you that each
of those lines the further up the tree you go the more expensive they are and it gets into
serious money now folks really serious money that higher up you go on the tree and another thing
you should meant you should know is that a local ISP is paying the same amount of traffic same
amount of money for no matter how much traffic you send off over their local matter it doesn't
matter how much you send if you saturate the line completely if constantly exact same amount
because a one in the zero if it's a whole go of one is going across the line if nothing's going
across the line they're paying to transmit zeros if there's loads of stuff going online they're
paying to transmit ones and zeros in actual fact so most of the time it zeros so they're still paying
the data centers that are still running the switches to still running the servers to still running
the lines there's no saving that can be made so they are quite happy for you to be sharing stuff
among their users as much as you like which is why if they're doing telephony they'll give
you telephony between your local subscribers for free because they're paying for it anyway they're
not being charged at all by anybody else and they will include that on the one fee so they want to
keep the network within their network as much as possible if they can't do that they will attempt
to keep it within their period network as much as possible because they're going okay we'll send
it over this pipe and there's loads and loads of people specialized in making a appearing deals
so sometimes somebody will a smaller ISP will need to pay more money to the bigger ISP because
of the number of traffic that's going to cross then you have caching this is why they love
mail servers news net and news net comes in once it's stored in their server and then sent all
the requests go locally over their network this is why often called bit torrent come out the movie
industry had no full hold whatsoever in getting the ISPs to do anything about legal movies because
it was in their interest to have as the best news servers possible because people would take
these new servers and one move the new movie would come out it would come one time into their new
server and then all their users would subscribe from that costing them nothing so then bit torrent
comes out and the idea of bit torrent is a swarm comes up it becomes available and everybody shares
tiny little components and even if you're running a site if you're downloading in a raspberry
pine you get a 250 you've got a you know a dialogue connection portions of that component are
coming to you boss bit torrent is completely and totally network unaware or at least was when
it started off that's changed a little now but at least it was starting off completely and totally
unaware so you might be pulling down portions of that file over a 3g connection that's costing
them money because definitely on 3g connections they are losing money if you are transmitting
they are losing money if you are transmitting because it does cost them money to transmit if you're
not transmitting then it doesn't cost the money that's the one exception so they don't want to
send the stuff over 3g or over mobile and then what happens is you have this file from all over
the world all coming through tier one connections and it's costing them a bomb and every single copy
of that file is costing them a bomb because it's still coming from you know Chuck whoever who
sit out in the 3g connection middle of Kansas is sending that file over a tier one connection
it's coming across the Atlantic and then suddenly everybody has it and then they can be shared
by everybody but it really really is expensive which is why they have a complete lockdown and they
completely hate bit torrent from a HBR point of view if somebody downloads a show once what happens
is it goes through caching server they it will hit their network one time and then the next
person who makes a request it will go into the caching server caching server will ask HBR has this
file been updated since almost year last and that will then they will reply no it hasn't and then
the cache will be sent back down to the local client and that pretty much explains that
but the Netflix thing was that clear that Netflix puts servers into local networks so that they
can serve their movies from there yeah CDN a content distribution network okay so is that that's
pretty much why ISPs hate bit torrent yeah that's why ISPs hate bit torrent but is is there any advantage
to pack a public radio using one i would have no problem whatsoever but with HBR reason one
because what we don't care about stats to be honest and but what i would see no reason then why not
use just a regular you know seeding server and just do regular bit torrent other than the fact
that ISPs whatever they say the block bit torrent traffic the rate limit is and they treat you
as a suspect user if they find you using it which i'll admit is horrible same as the internet
should be open then the rest yeah yeah no the only the only reason that i i don't know i don't
know i'm not sure i just i've for a long time i've just felt like there has to be some way to
integrate uh bit torrent the technology with feeds you know what i mean just just to make the
distribution more accessible uh and and easier to do and i can't you know i can't really see a
way around it it'd be nice if you know they were like uh you know like bit torrent sync for
instance is what i was thinking if that were the the building block that started it um you know
you'd then have like a local copy of of hpr of everything uh every show on that server at least
in the format you wanted and you could then you know have a script running at home to build your own
little rss feed and and handle your pod catcher that way or something uh just something to make
distribution more accessible but i mean i understand there's a lot of roadblocks because they
issue with the um we could put in a server up and what we would need to see every single episode so
you would need to then get the the episodes as a each time it would be a new torrent that would come
in associated with the episode whereas what you're with normal bit torrent yeah exactly yeah
well what you're talking about and now i think i see where you're coming from it's just the entire
repo is is distributed to be a bit torrent correct yeah yeah the entire every maybe it would be
the entire repo or maybe it would be you know one repo for aug one for speaks one from p3 whatever
i you know i don't know uh maybe the entire repo would make more sense because people be working
together as opposed to fragmenting it but um yeah and and and then you know hpr uh could even throttle
its upload and let the community do the work um but but i don't know and and uh burger one who's
listening in the in the mumble chat here is saying you can't select what download you want and which
one you don't and that's that's kind of the point you would download the entire repo and you would
help see the entire repo uh you know as a community member yeah and the cool thing about that was
what we could do then is update the you know just dump the rss file in rss file the points to the local
dot slash hpr app so blah blah blah dot mp3 in that in that repo who so essentially the slash apps
folder on on hpr contains all the mp3 files and everything if we share that out over bit torrent
and then put in a simlink into the latest rss feed that rss feed every time we show comes out uh so
at one minute past midnight we could dump a new um aug dot rss mp3 dot rss with the latest show in
there and that you could plug into your regular um or ss reader and then pick it up locally that will
work are you shitting me i mean crap in me no no that seriously would work i think i don't see why
it wouldn't you're basically talking about uh where i would see this useful actually is for the um
the source web files as well as have them in rx.org i have them here locally on my own pc and i'm
a bit worried that it would you know die or something so what would be cool is if that and all the
mp3 files and aug files and everything were shared by people who have like one turbine uh you know
they've got space basically for to to host all this stuff and then the feeds are just a simple matter
of tone a little text file in there that has got uh all the feeds as part of you know it's just a
wget from it's from local host and don't put into the uh into that directly the easy peasy them
and squeezing that's if your bit torrent sync client is running on the same machine that you're
rss client is on correct um yes but we could what you could do is put um uh the whole
name of hacker public radio dot local yeah and then you and your host file hacker public
radio dot local equals you know as an alias to something else okay so 172.0.0.1 for instance
what sorry 127.0.0.0.1 would serve it off local host if you wanted to do it that way
or we could simply point to that dot forward slash um which when you serve it out would
possibly fill out the local um you know if you're serving it from example.com or possibly fill out
example.com we may have to experiment with this sometime you yeah no it's too well okay
i would need someone to walk me through it i think because i i have a machine running
full time but it's not it's not the machine i i run my pod catcher on yeah but on that
machine you could run a radio you would you would think it's to the local network yeah presumably
that presumably these two machines are on a on a wired ethernet connection yeah yeah okay so
so long as you haven't in the house you don't care what protocol you use to get it from one
place to the other yeah correct so you could take it from a hpr in the swarm and you know a new
wildfire comes down new mp3 a new speaks file are torrented down during the day to you yeah yes
and then the the the feed files come in and you point a web server to that location on your
on your website on okay on the machine that's running the bit yeah so you've got a nas or
something you've got a raspberry pie with a terabyte disk attached to it you're installed a patch
and you pointed to var www slash hbr forward slash mp3 dot rss yeah and you put that into your
reader on your other pc it will pull it in and everything in that would be relative to the route
of that local raspberry pie so when it goes dot slash you know hbr1234 dot mp3 that would be my
domain my local fucking whatever I call this sorry there goes the clean tag get I already
blew it don't worry about then that would just be expanded by Apache out to to read you know the
locals this is normal stuff this isn't rocket science no no I know it's not rocket science I'm
just remedial no let's let's make this happen sorry I'm and I completely did not get what you're
no one ever does don't know worries well that's why it's good that we have this conversation
all right cool um yeah so I mean if anybody else thinks this is a good idea or bad idea or sees
advantage or disadvantage just to this you know post it in the show notes or I mean in the um
in the mailing list or give it to us in the comments for the show please so what would
do you envisage this being like the mp3 augin speaks three different ones and the wildfire
being a different one I hadn't thought that far ahead I was only selfishly thinking of my own
augfeed so you'd like your but you'd like the entire augfeed do other people not just delete the
files once they're finished well yeah I delete it from my from my mp3 player and I don't keep it
locally but if if I were if this were hpr and I were helping hpr I would keep it cached you know
on a separate machine I wouldn't obviously carry around every episode with me but for sure I
would I would you know join a torrent that helps to alleviate the bandwidth of hpr why not then
have this running for everyone so one sub directory hpr the other sub directory is uh I don't know
there's some texture the next sub directory is going to you okay links out there but you could
you could do the walk yeah for sure but it's got to start somewhere exactly Dave Dave hello hello you
know our linux link dot net script oh yes I'm coming along it's not had a great do the progress
since the last time I spoke to you because summer got in the way but uh I'm scheduling it for
latest oh camp yeah um to be ready bokeh yeah go on bokey what's cool is this linux link you
know Dan's the linux link dot net tag page uh yeah with all the tools maintains the linux
link dot net which is a list of all linux and tech related podcasts and Dave and I have been
working as a you know handout thingy for um as a handout uh you're interested in podcasts here's
a list of technical podcasts oh have you ever considered doing a list of podcasts well you might
try on hack up on the radio that type of that type of opening line um and we found that it was a lot
more complicated than it turned out to be and now we're we're kind of working on this tool that will
go out each so however often that's wrong and look at the help of the linux podcasting feeds
you know verifying that the servers are up verifying that it's readable and with wget verifying if
the server itself is down reporting that if the feed is is invalid reporting that and displaying stuff
like the latest episode is black so if you're ever there wondering I have not heard an episode
from the linux link dot net has that been released this week that that you could go to this place
and then as a service to the community you could see all there it is there but as part of that
we could also feed it into you know download the episode and put it onto this master um repository
maker and then people who are fans of that show could subscribe to that torrent and essentially act
as a backup for community cool or not okay so the back channel discussion that's going on here
right now in the in the chat um it is we're wondering about file size and and Borgu is asking or
Borgal I'm not sure something I don't know he's muted unmute yourself speak I command you so he's
wondering about disc space and um how how everybody you know who shares in this is is going to help
with the disc space and well I guess what it boils down to is is you know right now I'm pretty sure
the aug feed the entirety every show ever in aug is less than 30 gigabytes right now it was less
than 20 a year ago or just over 20 and I know that you know MP3 is is probably uh what is MP3 twice
the size or is it half the quality which where we do in that can I mean top the quality okay so
then another 30 gig for MP3 is speaks has got to be got to be half the size maybe a third of the
size so another 15 gigs for that and we're still only up to 75 gigs unless we're going to be
sharing the the flag which I don't know that we need to do that if um if archive.org is taking care
of that for us but I mean you know you know I'm not the arbiter of what we do here I just you know
I just suggested the idea and and someone could explain to me why it's a good or bad idea it's
currently at 52 gigs in total everything for all three feeds yep since the beginning of time
yeah okay that does not include the twice ones yes yeah and and my thought about this I mean I
guess the way that my brain sums this up is at the moment uh Josh and Stank are handling that 53
gigabytes why can't I yeah no it's a it's a you know as as as a community member I mean they're
and they're running out of a server farm or or or not not a server farm excuse me but um
they're they're a host you know and they're we're probably running off a VPN or something
and disk space on a VPN is orders of magnitude more expensive than disk space here at my house
and you know granted every person who participates spends that money over and over again so
you know maybe it uh an aggregate it's not the best way to spend money on storage space but
as far as saving some bandwidth and getting some stuff done I don't think it costs uh you know
everybody too much money you know what I mean I'm just rambling and battling now aren't I
I didn't make any sense there did I no can we can't hear you stop transmitting no no red lips on
the screen Dave I'm glad you're recording still haha yes felt embrace as I
so what would it do to the bandwidth of somebody who's got bandwidth cap like like me for example
I'd probably not want to participate or I'd want to trickle trickle feed the um the data in the
first instance you know yeah yeah with with I know I'm not sure how BitTorrent Sync works
yeah I haven't looked into it yet it's a separate client from a regular BitTorrent client and
every BitTorrent client's different but all of the graphical BitTorrent clients have ever seen
you can limit your bandwidth uh independent uploading download independently so I imagine that you
can limit what you're what you're downloading uh you know uh you're your speed how how quickly
yeah yeah yeah and how quickly you're uploading it and you you know probably need to do some math
to figure out how much it's going to cost you over a month yeah I've got a per month uh bandwidth
cap so so but if you set it low so that it you know it took took that month or maybe two months
to fill up in the first instance then then that that would be that would be doable guess yeah you
probably write about that yeah okay okay sounds interesting sounds like an interesting idea
yeah and I know I've never I've never begun seeding a file you know I've always just kind of joined
into the into a Torrent Swarm um but I know that if you're downloading for instance an album uh
you know that's creative commons license that's legal to download of course you you can like
there's usually tick boxes and you can select uh songs that you or deselect they usually come
you know by default everything selected you can deselect parts of that file that you don't want and
that may also be true with um with bit torrent sync I don't know yeah so you could maybe slice off
the uh a period of of a podcast you know like the last year's worth or something like that
or prioritize them or something if that's what uh Borgu was saying that um it does not allow that
all right in bit torrent sync okay yeah all right yes you'd have to you'd have to change the whole
thing so then maybe maybe a bandwidth cap in within the the bit torrent sync client is the way around
that yeah sounds doable though I mean there's not likely to be too many constraints on it what
what sort of outgoing demand would you be likely to get no wonder um it isn't much I've never
seen much of a demand on on my torrents like if I do a Linux ISO or something um I never see
more than I don't know uh I don't think I've ever cracked 100 kilobits per second up
mm-hmm and I guess most people who have a DSL get quite a quite a low upload rate don't they
buy by default and it's limited to download rate of about what is it 20 megabits or something
on a DSL oh that just depends on your service I mean what you probably want to do you know if
you're not uploading anything anyway then then but and you're not dealing with caps then it probably
doesn't matter but if you're dealing with bandwidth caps or if you have a limited upload rate you
you just you want to go to like um speakeasy.net or some such service second measure your band with
you know how much you download and how much you upload and for instance I can upload um I think
it was 1.5 megabits per second so I might want to limit mine to 0.5 so that I have a megabit leftover
for my other my other stuff um and you know if if two dozen people around the earth are limiting
theirs to you know 0.5 up and just sharing with everybody that way and it would be more than that
because you know people would you know subscribe this way and depend on it so it's like any
torrent the more people involved the quicker it happens mm-hmm yeah okay okay now that's that's
good these are all the sort of questions I guess people have won't they they'll say well it
cripple my my my internet link and so forth and the answer is yes if you let it run off the
leash then yes it will but you you can control it I believe you can I'm I'm not like I said I'm
not entirely certain with the specifics on bit torrent sync or go is saying that yes you can
um I know that on on a regular bit torrent every client that I know of you can limit download and
upload speed yeah yeah and Borgo's verifying that as well or seconding that yeah it sounds good
and it's it's uh I a lot of people who um listen to and contribute to HBR do so because they want
to be a member of that community and there's another way of being a member of of the community isn't
exactly and it would be a very um I don't know if like it would feel very satisfying to be a member
that way personally yeah yeah I like the sound of it and most bit torrent clients also will and
again I don't know what bit torrent sync because it's a slightly different protocol and it's still
brand new but most other bit torrent clients will track your ratio what's called ratio
um and it's your ratio of downloaded data to uploaded data and you can you know you can you
can you can watch that ratio climb you know once you have all the files and and you're sharing about
that way you can just watch it go up yeah yeah well fantastic so where do we go from here then
kick the idea around a bit and see see where it goes yeah I think so um see what happens
yeah good okay so Ken's uh Ken's disappeared of the place of sample yeah I know oh man
Borgu you're running bit torrent sync yeah it is still in beta exactly it's still in beta it's not
on um devian current yet there's there's uh though I believe there is a uh a repo uh what
they call PPE um a PPA personal package archive there is a PPA for bit torrent sync but um
yeah it is still in beta that that is true so maybe we we I don't know experiment with it but
don't rely on it just yet until it settles down a little yeah that's what Borgu is suggesting
Borgu am I supposed to pronounce the the one as an L is it Borgu or Borgol
nope just Borgu okay thanks man so I'm gonna try and drag Ken back in here
all right Ken can you speak yet sort of hey I can hear you skype uh on my fedora 19 box just
blew me out of the water got a lot easier than was running but there you go hi thanks Microsoft
where are we uh we're basically just discussing um limiting bandwidth uh within the bit torrent sync
client so that it doesn't kill somebody's um bandwidth cap uh through their ISP um we said that
you uh Borgu verified that you can do that at the moment but cautioned us that bit torrent sync
is still in beta and some of the updates lately have broken um the syncs and some syncs had to be
read some updates broke the old shared folders and they had to be resynced
yeah the only thing that I would say about this is for your functionality if you
wanted to help hpr out by having a copy of that we could equally do this but put no nursing
server in where you could arsenke down the changes and that's well what that would do is force
everything to come from the um the central server which I don't know that's fine you see I'm
I'm struggling with this because um serving everything from hpr the bandwidth is not the problem
they having it in the only one central location is is a little bit worrying uh not having
it copied in multiple places is not sort of the worrying so it depends on the problem we're trying
to solve well it will not bit torrent sync is not a backup uh because if something happens to
that original file I think that you it it would you know like if something gets deleted from that uh
primary resource then it gets deleted from everywhere so I don't know if it's
I don't know if it's backup plan number one uh it's only bandwidth plan I'm actually thinking okay
if we did a nursing um uh end client saying I don't know if that's even possible publicly to do a
public process down because that's very efficient and there's always one way so it's only ever gets
added the only time you delete anything and your end would be if the show got over written or got
updated in somewhere anyway this is something for the mail list the show is long enough
yeah okay we can we can let it die no no no I I find no no not the idea meant the episode
yep anyone else got anything to add okay then join me in singing the free software song
oh hey I was singing the other version with with the guitars I'm thinking we should all
sing the uh open source musicians podcasting is actually yeah actually a nicer song oh yeah I
don't remember it though it's been a while well pre-freedom you know freedom when it's free
it's just for me why don't we just say goodbye okay tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of
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