Episode: 2545
Title: HPR2545: 2017-2018 New Years Eve show part 5
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2545/hpr2545.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 05:24:21

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This is HBR episode 2,545 and titled HBR 2017 New Year's Eve Show Part 5.
It is hosted by Marius Post and is about 141 minutes long and carries an exquisite flag.
The summer is Part 5 on the 6th annual HBR New Year show.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by An Honest Host.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15, that's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at An Honest Host.com.
We've generally got an original 56 layers pole.
I've got a re-issue of a 56 layers pole.
Ah, right so it's got the big chunky 50s neck on it but it's not an actual one.
Yeah, so if you look at it on interwebs, it's an airophone, it's a long-series version, airophone 1956 gold top with P90s.
It was the only thing that was a Les Paul from 54 to all through 5556 was this model.
This color, this spec, this everything.
The N57 arrived, the humbuckers arrived and this went in the obsolescence.
But that's a re-issue of that sort of 2 or 3 year period I've got.
Very nice, I've got a lot of guitars more than I should probably admit to it, I don't know.
Yeah, well that, a lot of the three PRSs as well, but...
Essie's old proper peristes.
No, Essie's.
Hey, Casper, you round, place me a tarp, you are.
Casper, if you're round.
I had a PRSSE but I sold it to make way for various others.
I've got a Gibson Les Paul, a Gibson SG and a Gibson Flying V.
All sort of low end Gibson's but still if you told 20 year old Joe that he was going to one day on those three, he wouldn't have believed you had nothing.
Yeah, that's exactly why...
I fell in love with the...
Oh, right, right, okay.
Might as well stay by some.
But almost everyone I know in real life already knows this but you guys probably don't have to realize this.
So, for now I was 16 and I started playing the guitar.
I taught myself.
I taught myself.
Come on.
Yeah, sorry.
So basically I taught myself guitar and I thought I kept seeing in these magazines.
Like all these other guitars from all these different genres.
They all had Les Paul's, they all had Telecaster's, they all had Stratocaster's.
And I thought that there must be something about these three instruments.
Above everything else, there must be something about these three that makes them so versatile, so playable.
So there must be something about them.
And there's no point in comparing like the copies or the like the squires or the epiphones or whatever I'm talking about.
The proper Gibson, the proper Fenders.
So, but in a very few various music stores, the car stores.
That's when I was 16, 17.
So if you got a proper Les Paul or a proper Tele or a proper Strat.
Playing the Strat quite quite quite quite kind of that.
But it just didn't grab me.
There was nothing for me with the Strat.
I put the Tele quite quickly as well after that and the Tele is lit.
I can see why people like it, but it's not only for me.
It took me a wee while and then eventually I found a Les Paul in Glasgow.
And as soon as I started playing it, I mean I was not very good at all.
But as soon as I was playing it, I almost felt like that.
There's something like a spotlight had opened in the clouds.
And there was just light that only I could see.
The spear and me and the guitar.
And I knew it was going to be very good.
But the Les Paul just made me sound awesome.
So for that point, I was a Les Paul guy.
I wanted me to do it.
Yeah, well it's funny that I didn't really fancy getting on Les Paul.
And I got my S.G. first.
And then I was kind of looking at fine V's, but they're too expensive.
And then I saw this Gibson Les Paul in the faded finish.
I think it's called Les Paul Studio faded.
And it's, it's, it's pretty basic, no binding.
It hasn't got a shiny finish.
It's just sort of rough wood that's just been stained brown.
And I'm going to pick it up for 40, 420 quid.
And it's, I love my S.G.
I love my flying V, which I got subsequently a few effort.
Well, I've got two headphones on a squire that I also like.
But there's just something about that Les Paul.
There's a reason why it's so many guitarists have played Les Paul's songs.
There's just, it's sort of, I don't know.
It's just the best all-rounder that I can.
Well, it's the best all-rounder guitar I've ever played.
Put it that way.
And I've earned strats.
And I've earned a Fender Strat.
And I've got a squire classic vibe telling, which is sort of as close to a Fender as you can get.
Some would argue that it's nicer than a low-end Fender.
I don't know. It's great.
That's all I care about.
But there's something about that Les Paul, which is really special.
Yeah, for me, all of my guitars, I've got a half to half QE's rack as well.
It's got seven guitars now at the moment.
All the nine are what I would call the sort of high end of the semi-pro range,
which is where you're getting to sort of three, four hundred pounds, four, fifteen maybe.
That I push five hundred at that point that when you go up the range,
you're not getting that much more bang for the buck.
Yeah, you're getting a proper.
Yeah, so the law of diminishing returns the call it.
You know, if you look at a four hundred, five hundred pound guitar
and compare that to a thousand pound guitar,
it's not massive.
The thousandth guitar is going to be nicer, but it's not going to be massively so.
If you compare the four, five hundred pound one to one or two hundred pound one,
it's night and day.
Then, conversely, if you compare a thousand pound guitar with a two thousand or three thousand pound guitar,
there's barely any difference there.
It's like that with a lot of things in life.
The more you spend, there's a sort of flattening off of the graph,
and it's that law of diminishing returns.
I think the sweet spot is probably somewhere between or a five hundred in the ground.
Yeah, because that's what I'm looking at.
All the instruments I've got are,
the way I would look at them is the professional where it counts,
like in the sound and the playability.
That's where they are professional.
They've obviously cut corners everywhere else.
Like cut to the finish.
Looks good, but it's not, you can't, there's not,
it's not multi-canard layered lacquer and all that kind of stuff.
It's fine, but it's just not, nothing, not the right home bit.
Yeah, and you don't have to flametop maple and stuff like that,
which is really all about aesthetic,
because the guitar is going to sound the same,
whether or not you've got that and nothing in all rest of it.
I mean, the SG and Les Paul, I've got a very similar there,
that really stripped back faded look studio,
which, you know, they don't have any binding,
any aesthetics.inlet is, you know, it's very basic stuff,
but it still plays like a Gibson.
It's still made in the USA.
It's still got the Gibson electronics.
It still sounds and plays amazingly.
And for me, that's all that matters.
It would be nice if it had a beautiful flame maple top on it,
but at the end of the day, I'm not paying another grant for the sake of that.
Yeah, that's a bit harsh.
Yeah, that's where all mine are in a sort of three to four hundred range.
I do have my eyes on a classic vibe, a telecaster,
60s telecaster, possibly in butterscotch blonde,
just off the top of my head, just saying.
Well, I was looking at that.
But what I ended up with is the thin line one,
which again, is kind of a wood looking.
It's, it's lacquered.
It's shiny lacquered unlike the Gibson's that I've got,
but it's a thin line, so it's semiacoustic,
which is, I've got a soft spot for semis.
I've got an epiphone ES339 and a dot as well,
which is like the 335, well, epiphone version.
And then the strong down one,
which is the 339.
And I just like semiacoustics.
I got a 1337 here.
On, on that, on that sort of 335,
339 thing. Have you heard of the epiphone Casino Coupe?
Yeah, that's totally hollow.
As opposed to the 335, which I've got the centre block.
It's, it's totally hollow, I think, because you know,
which is, it makes for an interesting sound,
but try and play that loud live, you know,
through a big amp live.
You're going to get all sorts of feedback issues.
Well, the reason I mentioned the Casino Coupe is
from everything that I can work out,
that is the janglais sound of the sixties.
All that janglais sixties music you can think of,
that's a Casino rather than my Casino Coupe.
But that's a Casino.
That's what it is.
That's the closest you're going to get to that
is a Casino Coupe for that janglais sixties could invite.
Did they come with P90s?
I think they did.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, which is, that's sort of halfway in between
the humbucker and a single coil, isn't it?
I've never been a massive fan of them, really.
So the P90s are single coil.
It's just that they're far, single coil.
Yeah, so that's why you get that in between sound.
It doesn't sound as thin as a sort of
strapped type single coil, but it's definitely not a humbucker.
Yeah, exactly.
It's got the kind of chunkiness of a humbucker,
but it's got the sort of,
it's still going to brittle, brittleness of a
bit of a single coil.
And the snarle on this thing is unbelievable.
That's where I got into the P90s from
was the Boston sound, Tom Schoels.
His, all the Boston solos were
at 69 gold top, I think,
with the P90 on the neck, I think.
That's where the solos came from.
Yeah, I mean, I've been looking at the PRS,
there's a PRSSE.
Yeah, so it's, you know, it's made in the far east,
baritone.
Oh, baritone on something.
Oh, yes.
Because I like to play,
I like to play a mixture of, you know,
quite soft stuff and quite heavy stuff.
And my, my SG is actually tuned to B flat,
drop B flat.
So it's C standard and drop the equivalent of drop D
from that.
And really what I need is a baritone type,
if I'm going to play that.
And so you only have to make a couple of tweaks
to the tuning really of a baritone.
But I'm not convinced about P90s,
I don't know, but you're saying,
can you get a really heavy thick,
metal-y sound from P90s?
That's what I worry about.
I'm not convinced that you can.
I would say, I would say yes.
I mean, there's,
it's P90s, I do have a unique sound.
It's one of those sort of a head and
low starch, like hidden secrets.
Can I think, I don't know,
where most people assume,
I mean, part of,
part of what I got it was,
people look at that and go,
oh, it's a Les Paul.
But it's not really a Les Paul.
It is, but it's a different character.
It's not, it's not a regular Les Paul.
But it takes you sort of a lot of examining
to work out,
look, what is it?
There's definitely a bit of that.
And yeah, the America is chunkier,
but it's the P90s.
That's what makes the difference.
But you can only kind of show themselves
under certain sort of conditions.
Yeah, it's funny that my,
both my 339,
the upper 339,
and my Gibson Flying V,
I've got coil taps on it.
So you pull the volume
and it splits.
I don't know if it's tap or split.
I doubt the technical term is,
but you get half the humbucker,
so you get a single coil kind of sound,
which I think is somewhere in between
a straight single coil and a P90.
And I think with enough gain on the amp
and pedals and everything,
you can get a thick sound with it.
But then when you drop it back into humbucker,
there's just that extra thing,
that extra thickness that makes it,
as an artist preferable for my money.
I thought it's really going to get deep on the guitars.
I mean, you can have best guitar in the world,
but if you don't have a soul,
what's it going to do?
Just like a PC.
Yeah, I think the way that I would compare
the P90 to the humbucker
is that the humbucker is almost like the digital,
the on-off.
The P90 is more the sort of,
the variance that's got...
It's dynamic range, right?
The dynamic range, yeah.
I mean, the P90s can go from something really delicate
and really sort of haunting and really,
beautiful and echoes, just amazing.
And it can go from that,
but it's sort of dirty enough just to make it sound really,
really good in all of a sudden.
You can just squeal like a muffle
when it comes to some sort of a solo or something.
The range is just phenomenal.
It squeals like a muller.
When you go for it, the P90 is really squeal.
I think you might be selling me here.
I think my wife is going to despise you
when I buy yet another guitar.
She's not keen on my growing collection,
put it that way.
Yeah, the P90s are such a rare thing.
It's like most people only think of humbuckers
or single coil as in the regular ones,
the thin ones, the strats, the tellies.
But the P90s are that perfect hybrid.
They've got all the...
they can have the earthiness of a single coil
and they've got the grunt of a humbucker.
But you're not on a telly.
You've got your lipstick pick up at the neck.
That, to me, isn't...
it's nowhere near a strat pick up.
It sounds...
what I imagine.
I've never played a P90.
But I've heard a lot of them, obviously.
But what I imagine, it's closer to a P90.
Because I don't know what's different about that pick up.
But to me, it sounds much nicer.
Right. Could that be on the telly?
Is the...
is a lipstick one?
Is that the one that's pointing off at an angle?
So there's definitely...
So it's hitting different parts of the...
definitely harmonic parts of the string.
It's picking up...
No, that's...
No, that's...
Now, that's the one at the bridge where you've got that at an angle.
But the one at the neck is the one that doesn't look like any other type of pick up.
It looks like...
well, they call it lipstick,
because it kind of resembles a shiny crime lipstick thing.
So...
Yeah, I don't know about that.
So the P90 is one of the things that...
Since the humbucker arrived in 57,
the P90's basically were all thick,
and then nobody wanted them.
And for a few years,
just couldn't they get them?
Although I suppose all the Gibson range were all humbuckers.
Everything was humbuckers.
And every now and again, just on some flim,
some retro act would bring that back.
And it would get in a popular among some...
a small minority of people,
and then it would go out of fashion again.
And I happened to ride the last build.
Last year, I got it.
And I lost year.
Nearly last year.
I managed to get on with this thing.
As soon as I saw the Les Paul with the P90's, the 56,
I specifically got a credit card just to buy that guitar.
Not that it was...
The money was...
wasn't a credit card,
worldly, it was just...
I didn't have...
I was already paid at that point and couldn't afford it.
So I got a credit card specifically
for my gold dot.
I see, living in London,
it means that I don't really have to buy anything new,
not just the guitars that I own.
Apart from my really cheap acoustic that I've got were bought new,
because there's such a thriving market on Gumtree
and to Les McStandee Bay,
you can pick up some real bargains.
You've got to be careful of fakes and everything,
but if you know what you're looking for,
you can get some really cheap guitars in good condition.
I mean, I got my flying V,
which is a very nice finish and everything.
I picked that up for five, seven, five, second hand,
which I think is probably worth...
That was before all this Brexit business and everything,
slightly before it,
and before the pound tanked and everything.
So now I think it may even be worth sliding up head for it.
So if you buy anything new,
you're instantly...
It's like buying a new car.
It's just instantly worth less than you paid for it.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, there's one guitar actually that I fell in love with
around the same times as Les Paul.
You can only buy it a second hand now,
because Gibson's stopped doing it.
Have you heard of the M3 as in three eyes,
like Roman numerals, M3?
No, I haven't.
I'm going to have to look it up quickly now.
Right, the M3 was...
It was basically...
It was derided as a Gibson Stratocaster.
It was a dual car away, 24 frets.
The two humbuckers, one single coil,
Floyd Rose tremolo,
Reverse headstock,
mental inlays.
It was insane, and this was a Gibson.
It's a proper Gibson.
I'm looking at it now.
It looks like a Jackson or something,
or an either that is.
Exactly.
It's insane looking.
There's no way you think that was Gibson,
but yes, that was a Gibson M3.
It just reshoed a double car away, Les Paul.
Well, I don't think they actually call it a Les Paul.
I think it just called it Gibson Double Cut.
And it looks quite like a PRS.
You saw it, you class it custom 24 or whatever.
But because it's a limited run,
it's like two or three again,
something ridiculous.
Yeah, I love PRS.
As much as I fell in love with the Les Paul,
all these years ago, I had that kind of moment in Glasgow,
where the light just hit me and was like,
yeah, I know what it's like.
I know this Les Paul feeling.
I like this.
I'm one of them.
Since then,
I've never been able to afford or justify a real Les Paul.
Or any, I mean,
going beyond 500 for a guitar,
that's really pushing it for me.
Well, that's why I'm saying look secondhand.
You know, especially with the studio faded, Les Paul,
I say I pick mine up for 420.
Yeah, it might be up there a little bit more,
but like for 455 hundreds,
you could definitely pick one of these up in really good condition.
And so, you know,
it's worth looking out for.
Yeah.
So, I mean,
that, that kind of price,
even then,
I wasn't even playing the guitar that much
until a couple of years ago and talking back in it.
But at that point,
I started looking at what kind of decent sort of top end,
sort of semi-pro level kind of guitar that I can get.
And I found that alone behold,
PRS were there to answer my prayers.
Like this new S-E range came out
and this was right in the right kind of price range.
So yeah, I fell in love with PRS all over again.
I tell you the guitar that I would love to buy.
Have you got Google in front of you or whatever?
Is some image search in front of you?
Well, there's only a chance I'll know what that is anyway, but what is it?
Well, it's the finish.
So, it's one of the 2018 S-335s
in Acro-Marine colour.
Oh, no.
Acro-Marine finish.
It's just going to be a second off to work that up.
Yeah, when I saw it,
I fell in love with it.
However, then I saw the price of it,
3,300 quid.
And I suddenly thought,
hmm, I perphone.
And I found one for 150 quid in the end.
So that will do me for now.
But it's funny that that led me to doing a search on his website.
If you look at this,
3,300 quid, I think it is.
Or 3,400, something like that.
For this beautiful, beautiful ES-335.
What can you get for that kind of money
if you're willing to go for these high-end finishes?
And I worked out that you could get 9 really nice guitars for that.
And I think it was a decent,
but low-end Gibson Les Paul,
a decent SG,
the F1.
A couple of squires.
You know, you could get nice guitars
or you could get one amazing guitar.
And there is just no way I could possibly justify spending
the best part of 3 and a half grand on one guitar.
I think I'd have to be Mark Zuckerberg
before I got that,
or at least Mark Schottelworth,
before I could justify by anything like that.
Yeah, I think it's more about how good you are realistically,
how good you are,
and what you intend to do with it.
I've went back to basics in terms of I taught myself out of play years ago,
but I never really pushed it.
I never really got anywhere near as good as I could have been
for the time I've been playing.
So recently I've went back to basics
and learning scales and patterns and all this kind of stuff,
all the boring stuff to get back.
And my intent was to really get reasonably decent at most styles.
Enough that I can record and release things that are reasonably decent.
That's my kind of goal.
And at that point,
it then becomes an investment for me to go for that kind of semi-pro,
kind of level,
whereas if you're,
if you're talking about investing like 2 grand, 3 grand or more on a guitar,
and hell yeah, I mean a PRS custom artist,
you give me that every day of the week.
But like 2 and a half, 3 grand,
I can't justify that.
I'm not,
it's not as if I'm making a living,
playing music.
I mean, the guitars at that kind of level are really aimed at people
who are,
that's their job,
that's their career as,
as player instruments
and they're playing big stages
and either that,
the studio recording and some high-end gear
or they're playing some concert with some high-end gear.
And it needs to be reliable,
it needs to be always in tune,
it needs to be,
it needs to feel good,
it needs to do all these kind of things.
And at that point,
there's worth 2 grand,
3 grand on a guitar.
Oh, definitely,
it's worth investing.
But I think that,
once you get to more than about 1,500,
you're only paying for aesthetics
and like how rare the guitar is and stuff.
If you're willing to pay 1,500 for something,
you can get sort of an entry level PRS,
you know, an American PRS
or you can get a decent Gibson for that kind of money.
Maybe 80,
maybe 2 grand,
but anything more than 2 grand,
you're just paying for the looks of it
and how rare it is.
And I think that that really,
you're getting into collector terms
because I think that if you're going to pay 2 grand for it,
3, 3, 5,
or you're going to pay 3 and a half,
effectively,
in a blindfold test,
you probably wouldn't tell the difference between them.
Yeah, that's a thing.
I mean, I watch a lot of
hand-opens,
videos,
reviews videos,
and the one-
Yeah, check some caps in.
Yeah, yeah.
The thing that surprises me a lot of these times
when you see the comparison videos,
is like Squire versus Fender
or Gibson versus Epiphone or whatever.
You know, the American,
the custom, the high-end one,
versus the mass-produced Korean made,
or whatever.
And what surprises me is the amount of times
that, yeah, they can pick out the cheap one,
but it gets very difficult on this.
It's down to really minor things.
Like, it'll happen to know that the headstock
on this has shaped a slight bit different,
on this cheap one,
and it'll happen to brush against it,
so it'll happen to notice it.
It's that some minor things,
and I'm thinking for the vast majority of people,
it sounds good,
if it plays good,
if it looks good,
then job done.
Basically,
why spend 4 or 5 times at the price
to get the same effect
that only you,
as we know it's a difference?
Oh, definitely.
And I think that with Gibson's,
there is a difference with the lacquer that they use.
And I think it's natural cellulose
is on a Gibson,
whereas it's polyurethane on an epiphone.
And having owned both of them,
you can feel that difference.
And it does definitely feel nicer
on the neck and everything.
But I think when you get into Fenders and Squires,
they're all bolt on neck.
And really,
I have played some nice Fenders,
and I've played some low-end Squires.
And honestly,
okay, the electronics might be slightly different in them,
and you might have better pickups in the Fender.
But if you go for a high-end Squire versus a low-end Fender,
or even a high-end Fender,
I can't tell the difference.
And some of these Fenders,
the custom shop ones that are going for like 4 or 5 grand,
I think you've got to be,
you've got to have more money than said,
it's really to be paying that sort of money for them.
Yeah, I must admit though,
I like the,
I've definitely had my eye on a class at the Squire,
classic vibe, 60s.
Probably 50s telecast,
or the barge got to blonde this as gorgeous,
that's so gorgeous.
And then a 60s one as well,
a 60s strap,
the classic vibe strap.
Possibly the three-tone or the two-tone,
sort of sunburst.
And then the sexy start,
but these are nice.
Well, as I said,
I've got the classic vibe tele,
but not the solid body one.
I've got the 10-9 one,
and that's a great guitar.
It was quite expensive actually.
I think I paid the better part of 300 for it,
which for a Squire is a lot,
because that is the highest-end Squire you can get.
But I've played Fenders.
I had a Mexican,
sorry, Japanese Fender Strat,
before that was a great guitar,
but honestly,
can't really tell you it was much better
than this Squire that I've just bought.
And I know it's 10-class-diversist's strap,
but at the same time,
I'm telling you,
if you want a great guitar,
the classic vibe,
from what I've seen of my classic vibe strap,
telecaster,
you could do a lot worse.
Yeah, I think when it comes to,
sort of, well,
I have a two-tone engine here.
One, as a viewer,
I've just looked at the ultra-pellum blue,
you said, was the 339.
Sorry, you broke up a bit there.
I'm saying that that 339 colour,
I've got Google Images in front of me here,
is the ultra-pellum blue.
No, no, it's 335,
and it's Aquamarine.
I'll try and paste an image link in the chat.
No, sorry, I've never phoned it.
Oh, that's...
Oh, it came here, I think.
I thought I could hear Abba in the background,
and now I've heard SOS,
where I'm not knocking Abba,
but that's, well,
I am knocking Abba.
I was going to go all home on,
and get in there,
though, just so does the end of that conversation.
The nice Abba's been over there,
actually.
But here you know, it's just another song earlier.
That doesn't cause any problems
when this goes out as a podcast.
Well, that was why I was still there,
and if people could hear it,
so I wasn't able to enter up there in his recording,
or anything like that, that's why I asked.
I've been hearing it all the while.
I've been thinking, is that Abba,
then I heard SOS,
and that is definitely...
Now, I don't think it's going to trigger anything,
because I think you have to have quite a keen ear
to tell what it is,
but you can certainly hear something.
So I've turned it down a wee bit then.
Okay, sorry about that.
I'm seeing this aquamarine.
That's quite a nice color, actually.
It's absolutely...
I fell in love with it.
When I saw it, I fell in love with it.
That looks like a PRS kind of color.
I mean, I've...
Sorry, I've got PRS in the brain out out.
See, if I had the money
and the space,
I could hopefully set up a subscription
to the PRS later.
Whatever...
Whatever the model, whatever the color,
I'll just charge my coat and send it.
You know, obviously I can afford that.
I've got the space for that,
but yeah, I do like PRS.
Yeah, I think that PRS have certainly pushed some boundaries
when it comes to finishes,
and it's made Gibson have to compete with that,
and that's why they...
The more modern Gibson's,
I've got nicer finishes and more experimental finishes.
You know, something a bit different,
rather than just your standard gold tops
and sunbursts and all rest of it.
Now you're getting these really nice ones.
There was one translucent blue,
I think it's called.
Yeah, translucent blue.
I think it's an epiphone,
which is really beautiful as well.
I love those blue green colors.
I thought it would be a series of you
to say the translucent blue.
That's my PRS,
SC24.
Yeah, 24 as a translucent blue one.
Now, is that one of the more modern ones
with the Bevel top,
or has it got the flat top?
I'm not sure how you dance on that.
It was...
Well, put it this way.
So if you've ever played an SG,
you'll know that that has got a flat top on it,
whereas the Les Paul has got a Bevel top,
it's got that sort of rounded cap on it.
And the thing is that a proper American PRS,
that's always had that rounded top.
But the very first...
SC, I'm not going to want to be listening to it through this.
Right.
The very first SCs that came out,
they were flat.
They didn't have that Bevel to cap on top.
I don't know.
Get it out of here.
Well, I don't know about that,
but it means, certainly,
it has kind of rounded this.
It just feels like,
like a regular PRS.
It looks like a regular PRS as well.
Yeah, yeah.
That's...
It was only the very first SCs, I think.
And I bought one of those very first ones,
and it was never quite right to me,
because it was a beautiful guitar,
but because it had that flat top,
it just...
it didn't feel like a proper PRS.
And in the end, I sold it for,
I think, a little bit over 100,
less than I paid for it,
which is not like me.
Normally, I try and go for really good bargains,
but I knew a lot less about what I was doing back then.
And it was a nice guitar,
but it wasn't as nice as the ones I've replaced it with.
The other one that I was thinking of,
this is all the stuff that's within...
It's like, what I would justify spending on a guitar
for how good I am and what I'm using it for,
is the Epifold Casino Coupe,
an Inverness Green,
which is a limited Russian color.
So the coupe is that as slightly smaller?
Is it like the 339 size?
Yes.
It's basically a 335,
but with the neck,
some deeper in the body,
so that it's overall,
it's shorter and less, less unwieldy.
But basically, yes,
it's a smaller 335,
that's what it is.
Yeah, except that it's totally hollow, isn't it,
rather than the 335, which has got a centre block.
Oh, sorry, it's the smaller version of the Casino,
sorry, not the 335,
and yeah, the Casino was hollow, yeah.
Yeah, that does look quite nice,
but I just think if you were looking to play it live,
just that feedback issue would be too much.
Unless you play in sort of jersey type stuff
or maybe jangly,
60 stuff out of push,
or anything with any sort of either drive or distortion,
then forget about it,
it's just going to feedback like terribly.
You know what, I'm not so sure about that.
That's the various reviews
and I've seen the Dawson's music channels quite good as well.
It seems to be quite decent.
Internet screen,
or did you say Glasgow or something?
No, Inverness Green.
Yeah, looking at that now,
it's a nice looking guitar.
It's certainly one I'd love to add to my wall,
but I think it's a high enough priority
to make it through the wife test.
Yeah, I mean, it's one of these where,
I mean, my Les Paul is close enough,
really, it could do that sexy thing and not well enough for me.
But yeah, I keep looking at the,
the coupé and thinking,
oh, it's not good just.
Heavy breathing.
Yeah, they're unless the problems
where probably the wash day of my life
was a day I discovered,
oh, you don't,
you can't just have one guitar on one rack.
You can actually have one rack that has lots of guitars on it.
Oh, how many can it take?
Oh, ten, you say?
Oh, I could do that.
Not a problem.
Eleven.
Yeah, you just need to get all separators.
You get the five rack and get all separators.
And that's at the point where you're looking at four of five guitars,
thinking what's next,
rather than looking at the four of five guitars,
going thinking,
do you really need that many of them?
Overboard.
I always say that what I do is I have hooks screwed to the wall.
And it's just the case of how much wall space they've got,
because I can buy those hooks of ebay for sort of three or four quid.
And then they just go on the wall
whenever I get a new guitar.
And I'm running, I'm very quickly running out of wall space.
Here's an oddball one.
I got this so that I could sit and play when I'm watching TV
and it just doesn't take up much space.
Have you heard of the Traveler guitar?
It's called an ultra light.
No, I haven't.
Right, this is going to blow your mind.
I'm going to give you a link to the ultra light.
And this is the guitar I use almost all the time
when I'm watching TV.
It's just certain doing scales or whatever.
I don't see any of that there.
Yeah, give me a second.
I'm half wasted.
I'm going to give you Google search.
And then I'm going to find it.
Just give me a build of it.
Is it headless?
There's someone's linked to it.
Is it sort of headless with the tuners in the body?
Yes, that's the one.
Yeah, I've seen a picture of that now.
It's strange and hard to get used to.
But good for travelling with and good for sitting on the sofa maybe, as you say.
Yeah, the point is that it's either in black or natural.
I've got minds in black.
But that's a damn good guitar.
It's not just...
It's not just a novelty in terms of the size and the shape.
It's actually a damn good guitar and it's all right.
All right.
Casper.
And Rudderker.
Oh, there he is.
We've probably driven everyone away with all our guitar geek talk.
Now you brought us in.
Brought us in.
Although I'm having to kill these headphones because the low the latency with this low latency system is far too much.
It's Casper and Rudderker from the Indian Brothers podcast.
I'm sorry to barge in like this.
I apologize for Casper who just decided that we needed to just get in on the action.
But by all means, you guys keep going.
Keep going.
We'll get in here at some point.
What podcast are you from?
The Alien Brothers podcast with Casper and Rudderker.
We're going relatively new on the scene.
What did you talk about?
That's a great question.
That's the question we're still trying to figure out.
That's really I think what most of the podcast is about.
We did talk about something hackerish once, right?
In episode two, strictly hacking.
Yeah. I think last time we were talking about the impending downfall of our empire.
That's episode three.
Oh, it's yet to air.
Yes. Sorry.
It's okay.
So sorry to interrupt.
Go ahead.
Well, that podcast I believe is hacker public radio, right?
So I'm looking at the light that ultra light you were talking about.
The things are interestingly backward.
Does that affect the sound at all?
Because you strum.
I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter which end is tightened, right?
It doesn't matter what end the little thingies are on, right?
You should be tight.
You tune it.
It's awkward.
I'm not going to lie.
It's awkward.
I mean, whatever string it is, I've got to actually mentally sort of throw my eyes up round the top of the string
and then pull it down the back and then visualize it through the back.
And I've got, I've got to sort of turn it so I'm facing the back, right?
Okay. That's that one.
And then, right?
Right. Right.
Okay. And not lose sight of that, right?
It's always that one I'm tuning.
That one I'm tuning.
That one I'm tuning.
Oh, yeah. It's a proper semi-pro guitar.
It's a proper, really, really good guitar.
I mean, it's a single pickup.
But it's quality is really good.
I mean, you're on par with the sort of high end of the epiphones or the best or a squire.
It's that kind of range.
It's a really good guitar.
It does make you look like there's going to be a keytar player in the band though.
Well, maybe.
I mean, that...
Sudo Echo.
Sudo, the little sort of...
Nearest thing.
That actually is detachable.
Mine is off.
There's just two poles that stuck in a two-downing holes.
You just sort of lift it off.
So it looks even more...
Even more going to ride without that.
Hmm.
I thought all the real, real, real guitar players would sell their nice guitars for junk
and then have to go buy a five-string or something.
Yeah.
Maybe C6 did with this one string, Deadly Bar.
Yeah.
I kind of did that through the years.
I would have one guitar for a while and then get a notion for another one.
It was the end of the trade and the ridiculously pure prices and pay over the top.
And, you know, that's...
I've been there.
That's most of my guitars up until the last B-File.
I've been like that where I've had one at a time.
And gradually downgrading to the point where you've spent a fortune and you're left for this piece of crap.
So the last couple of years, that's the first time I've actually got anything resembling decent guitars.
And that's my TRS.
That's my... my gold top.
That's my... my traveller.
I've got a sub-ray bass as well.
A music man sub-ray bass as well, a five-string bass.
No, so I've got a very cheap, dating five-string bass.
Which... so it actually sounds alright.
And I don't play enough bass to really justify an expensive worry for something.
Yeah, I've always wanted to learn.
I mean, I can do a bit of the kind of finger style bass.
But the big thing is, I've always drawn a slap bass.
There's something about a slap bass.
You can have Mark Kagan free.
You know, there's something amazing about a slap bass.
Oh man, funk.
Funk is the last refuge of the talentless musician.
Have I offended you now?
No, I was just thinking if that was a new career path.
No, I don't know.
The one thing, the two things I can't stand in music are slap bass and wah-wah pedals.
It's all about how they're used.
So I've been trying to wrap my head on different techniques.
Mostly guitar techniques.
And, oh, that's another thing.
This year, I learned how to do sweet picking.
I've always been fascinated by sweet picking before.
I can now do sweet picking.
It's hard as hell.
But yeah, actually, no, I probably shouldn't be saying that because I've probably applied this now.
I learned how to sweet pick a few months ago.
And I could do it sort of.
I could basically sweet pick.
But that's one of these sort of complicated things that have always been curious how to do.
Slap bass is another.
I've finally, finally, finally figured out the thing that I was missing about slap bass.
It's not just...
I was thinking it was always just like a right hand technique, like a picking hand technique.
It's not.
It's that.
It's also your fretting hand for muting.
And then you've been damping as well.
And the hammered hammer-ons and pull-offs and certain things.
That's really a two-handed technique.
More than that.
It's a rhythmic technique on a melodic instrument.
Which is another thing that is blew my mind.
It's like, if I'm playing a melodic instrument, surely the technique is melodic.
But no, slap bass is rhythmic on a melodic instrument.
Yeah, there's definitely a rhythmical element to any bass.
I mean, if you look at upright double bass.
A lot of that sort of slapping and stuff is traditionally keeping the rhythm.
You know, in the old skiffle bands and everything.
It was as much the bass prize responsibility to keep the rhythm as it was,
whoever was playing the washboard or whatever.
Yeah, and that's what made me sort of compare it with sweet picking as well.
Have you tried sweet picking?
Can you do sweet picking? Do you know what sweet picking is?
I have a vague idea.
But I'm not 100% and I definitely can't do it.
Right, you've heard of it though.
It's one of these advanced things that is not...
It's like a shredding thing.
Yes, yes, yes, kind of.
So the idea is it's one of these...
If you're playing a chord,
you're left hand, you're fret...
Your fingers hand, your hand that frets the notes,
is in the mindset of this is a chord.
You're fretting the notes all the same time and you're playing a chord.
And your right hand, your stroking hand,
is hitting a chord.
Everything's mentally a chord.
On sweet picking, you've got the fretting hand,
the thing, the hand that's playing the notes,
is like a chord.
But you don't play it like a chord.
You hit each individual note one at a time.
So you're playing it like...
You're strumming like a lead guitar or like a rhythm.
Sorry, a melody.
Whereas your chord, you're fretting it as if it's a rhythm.
And you're picking of the notes as dropping from one to the next, the next, the next,
then back up again.
It's like some weird hybrid between two different styles.
You're fretting something as if it's rhythm.
But your actual thing that's making the noise is lead.
And it just messes with your head.
It really messes with your head when you're trying to do like two halves of one thing
that don't seem to add up.
But yeah, they kind of do.
That's sweet picking.
That's the kind of metal that just messes with your head.
Sweet picking messes with your head.
I've got to have to look up how to do this now and see what it goes in the new year.
It's actually what I'm going now.
I need to go and deal with something.
I need to go down and deal with something.
I may be back a bit late, possibly.
But I mean, this may be it because I have to be up for work on Tuesday.
The way it's falling this year is not ideal.
Normally you get a couple of days after New Year,
whereas I get one day off after tonight.
And then it's back to work.
So I need to stay up all night talking to you a lot.
Well, that's us taking offense then.
No, I won't be kidding.
Have a good New Year.
Have a good New Year later on.
Yeah, I may be back to let me see.
I just have to deal with my cat and stuff.
So I'll be a maybe back.
But if not, yeah, have a good night everyone.
I am back anyway.
Check.
Can you turn the music up in my headphones, Casper?
Can you turn the music up in my headphones?
Can you turn my headphones on?
The blue lights on.
I did turn the blue light on.
Is that cool?
No, that's great with me.
Is this thing on now?
I think so.
How do we know?
Can people hear us?
You know, you know, I was just thinking, have you seen future armor?
Where the the aliens arrive?
And he's given the big speech about actual kill your entire planet.
It doesn't even realize the mic is switched off.
And he's like, I'm not.
Yeah.
I have seen future for him for well.
It's a very.
Very spinal tap.
Yeah, attempt at world domination.
You know, always got to make sure the lights on, you know.
Did anyone acknowledge the last time zone?
It's very.
Oh, it would have been.
Yeah, it's not about us.
It's kind of 11.
Oh, right.
I was just realizing that.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Yeah, no, it's three o'clock.
So there's past the time zone, past midnight,
and new years for some people.
Yes.
We like to welcome Brazil, Argentina, which includes
a couple of years ago.
Us and us.
Us on Paramatil.
Into the new year.
Happy new year.
Happy new year.
Happy new year.
Yeah, happy new year.
Well, there seems to have anybody on this from these countries.
I might have a list now, but.
But yes.
It's always the usual countries for this.
A lot.
Never come on to actual show anyway.
I've been doing over the past year as well.
I started learning foreign languages.
So I have been doing Jolingo, which is art.
It's great.
I am 58 percent fluent in Spanish.
53 percent.
I think fluent in French.
And 38 percent.
Something fluent in German.
53 percent.
It's quite high.
Yeah, it's quite a decent amount.
And I've been doing this three languages for about a year basically.
Why, why just for fun?
Because I mean, it doesn't work matter.
So in the Chinese are taking over the world probably with the.
Stuff being made over there for the most part and all that.
And actually would, you know, Brexit.
And have to make more deals.
We're trying the same probably anyway in this country.
No, that's just just for fun really.
I mean, I thought about.
But if I'm speaking to.
Look from an employers point of view, if you're dealing with a deal with outside world.
If you could someday that can do the same thing and speak multiple languages.
At the same time.
You know.
That's a big, a big plus, you know what I mean?
Well, it isn't, it isn't.
It depends on the language a bit.
I mean, I can speak fluent Swedish.
You know, but it's not that useful anywhere except for Sweden and Scandinavia.
Probably a little bit more useful than say Welsh.
Yeah.
Alright, well that's it.
I mean, I did try and Welsh for about a week.
And I realised Welsh is insane.
Welsh, there's a lot of languages that are connected.
There's, they're kind of built off in similar ways.
You can see the connections between them.
Yeah. But Welsh, there's nothing at all.
It's like, it's like you're totally lost on the sea.
There's a lot of dinghy and there's nothing to identify who you're going.
It's just utter guesswork and stuff like that.
Yeah, it finishes like that is what I think.
And we've got Casper's background music.
But I'm going to try and make a request as a Casper to play something.
And let's see what we can actually do.
So I've had to play some heavy metal Casper or something like that.
Come on, can you do it?
Who's that?
No, no.
Is that, is that not?
Something about, something about tangy or um, tangy.
Actually Boston is the home of the heaviest metal ever played.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who's that?
No, no.
Is that, is that not?
Something about something about tangy or um, tangy.
Actually Boston is the home of the heaviest metal ever played.
So you want some, some deaths from Norwegian death rock?
I mean, yeah.
Maybe it's something like that.
I don't know if you could even play that.
Oh, oh, it sounds like a challenge.
Okay.
All right.
See, I was just doing the acoustic because I didn't want to blow out eardrums here.
But if we got a challenge, it's up there.
Stand by.
Oh, I'll turn my head.
Hold on.
Turns off if it gets too loud or down.
Now tell me your fellas from a hacking point of view.
Is there anything heavier than a 105 power, sir?
How is it sort of being fired by a happy?
Every 4th of July we have 1812 literature and they use 105s.
I think it's the concussion section.
Oh, wait, wait, hold on a second.
Is cast would be going to place me a little bit more?
Although, maybe I have a point about the heaviest metal.
There we go.
Yeah, I would meet with myself.
Anyway, I was just thinking, gauden, when were you less doing a podcast before this?
Pass.
When you're not sure, can't remember when you less to the podcast.
It's been a while.
Probably best part of 2 years.
non-cruing mishays, April, New Year, show them. I guess you mean, I guess you mean
I don't say. Yes, you were here last year. You know that would work for the whole
Obi-Wan Kenobi, the four-strict thing you were here last year. Now, I would need to
call this a podcast. I mean, I know it is the same this year and last year, but
I would need to call that a podcast. So the stuff outside of here, two and a
half, maybe a year ago, something like that. In fact, last year, I believe you're on
two or three episodes of this podcast. That's entirely possible. I didn't
listen to the podcast. So that's entirely possible. I know I was hanging out here
for a while last year, and then the same this year as well. Yeah, and that isn't
you didn't listen to the podcast you won as a podcast, is that what we say? I know
yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, you said
yeah, yeah, you stopped doing that with crew, and there's a lot of things towards
the end. If I'm very correctly, when you did that. Yeah, that is lost interest
in a lot of podcasts. I cut down on a lot of podcasts. I was lost in two.
No, no, I mean, even your podcast, when you were doing it, you had that you stopped
listening to it as a listener, didn't you? Sometimes I'm seeing this after that.
Most people don't like sound of their own voice from these recordings anyway.
What are you trying to say, like?
No, I just got bored with a lot of things. I lost interest in a lot of things.
The podcast was one of them. I think now that I realize part of the pressure
to do blog posts and to do tweets and to do whatever that really does
you watch for me. So I think even podcasts probably not something I'll be doing
much of. Same with blog posts and I mean, I'm in a technically I'm on Twitter
and you account, but I have never used it. Yeah, well, Twitter is pretty much a waste of
time anyway, really, unless you've got actual followers, but then you have to of course build
up followers in the first place, unless you're somebody famous, because then you can get
many of the followers over the night, saying that as an example for American people
as well, but I mean, how many followers does Donald Trump actually have on Twitter?
I decided I could stop up a wee bit longer.
Just a wee bit longer. I just a wee bit like.
That's great. Listen, I applaud you, sir. I applaud you.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, I lost my train of thought there. As much as that was fun, I thought, how did
I apply it already for that?
For me, I don't know if it's Glasgow, I was like the Sunscotch accent, one of the key words
is decided rather than decided, like there's a sort of eed at the end of it.
I think that sounds more like up north. Can I more dundee or perth maybe?
Well, when it comes to accents, I'm a jack of all trade and a master of none.
So I can kind of do a vague-ish impression of most of them, but they're all pretty bad.
Yeah, welcome back, Joe.
Social media is pretty much a waste of time in your Gordon, really.
Well, depends, I've got something else to follow as.
And Joe, give us a, let me think of an accent.
I just do, do, do a New Zealand accent.
It's difficult because it's like it's Australian, but instead of saying here is the same has.
Yeah, and six instead of, yeah, yeah, six instead of, yeah, it's almost Scottish like sacks.
No, I remember what I was going to say there is, and here's the part where I would just jokingly say,
oh, no, I forgot it again, but guess I'll do that and then I expect they forget it again.
Anyone listen to the Tech. Podcasts from the middle of December, maybe about the lost art of debate, I think it was called.
And the guy was making a really good point about Twitter itself.
Well, if you say something in Twitter and you got a response to it, the response,
because there's only 140 characters now, okay, they've doubled that now, but 140 characters,
they don't have any space to go into any caveats, any nuance, any, well, yeah, this is true, but in this example,
it's such and such, you've got to cut that straight down to the bone of what it is.
And without all that can are softening in the caveats, it comes across as more antagonistic.
So Twitter itself with a character limit in the design, it's kind of designed to be almost Jerry Springerlight
in terms of debate and discussion. And make a drop.
You know that so is your mother, which nationally and 140 characters.
Well, there is that. There's just people being ridiculous, but I think that there is an argument for the benefits of Twitter,
and especially now it's 280, which gives you a little bit more breathing room to make a point properly,
but it stops big walls of text, doesn't it? It means that you have to be concise.
If you've got a point to make, you have to make it quickly. There can be no extra flowery language
and things that you don't need, any unnecessary stuff. It's got to stick to the point.
It's got to make the point quickly. And I think it goes both ways. It can make the discourse shallow,
but at the same time it can also mean that it's very focused and you don't have any distractions.
It's straight down to business, make my point, and not miss around.
Then again, that's exactly what you have in political circles.
Any nuance and politics is just thrown out of the window. It's broad debate points, broad debate and sides and angles.
It's like a competition. That's the exact same thing.
The one thing with Twitter when I was using it, I mean, yeah, the character limit.
But I remember how it seemed that hashtags and things would actually get included in the character level as well, which is a bit annoying.
And also, Gordon, you remember the days of identity care.
Ah, yeah, and status net and stuff.
What they call a mastodon these days, of course.
What they call good dinosaurs, and also to reinvent itself.
Well, one of the best bands of the last 20 years, mastodon.
But yeah, interesting that identity care and status top net and GNU social and everything didn't seem to make much of an impact.
But then when it was rebranded or forked or whatever you want to call it as mastodon, suddenly it took off and it was for a minute there.
The latest thing and everyone seems to be jumping all over it. It went viral.
But of course that, you know, that has ended up a bit of an echo chamber.
And no normal people are on there now.
Well, well, well, I honestly haven't been following. I don't care. One of that for a good, I don't know, a good two years or something.
So a mastodon, I've never even heard of that.
Well, mastodon is just a re implementation, essentially, of status top net.
It's federated. So you've got all these different servers and you register on one server, and these servers can talk to each other via an API.
I don't know the technical details of it, but you can talk to people either on your server or on all the servers all over the world.
Right, we're having to pump higher than because I mean, state of death sort of being pump higher, and then they also thought the old thing and the GNU social. That's what I thought.
I'm not exactly sure where pump fits into it. I remember reading about it at the time, but at the time that mastodon got big, because I was aware of identical back in the day, many, many years ago.
And the social, I'd been aware of, and there was an evolution there, but the latest sort of version of it is called mastodon.
That has, it's got reasonably big, certainly among Linux type people, but I don't think it's had much success with the mainstream.
You've got as Twitter has grown massively and still not implemented the feature, the one feature that everyone wants the ability to edit their tweets.
People are finding other alternatives, and you've got the, as far as I know, mastodon tends to be the quite left leaning people.
And then you've got a thing called GAB, which is the alt-right Pepe Trump people, because Twitter recently kicked off a load of people who they're deemed to be too far right or whatever.
And then GAB prize itself, and GAB prize itself on being this free speech platform, whatever.
I don't have that one either. I haven't got any AI.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it. I'm afraid.
I didn't hear about a few, one or two things that were going to kill a fire see on the handle, possibly.
I don't know what they're called now, but yeah.
I don't know.
Sorry.
I don't know.
Macedon is sort of a special place for me.
It became not what good news social was because nobody was on good news social.
So it was kind of hard.
There was like four or five of us that were on a server, but Macedon.
There's enough engagement to where it's fun.
And it's a nice replacement for Google plus because nobody liked Google plus.
And so it's sort of that nice mid space.
And I kind of don't want it to become popular because it's our thing.
That's not very good, not necessarily.
I think he's trying to do my, I think he's wanting my challenge.
And I would say that that was a step in the right direction for that.
That's where if that's good, that's a debate in itself.
Well, I say that's been mutated now that it wasn't one person, I don't think.
But anyway, it's funny you mentioned Google plus there.
When I spoke to my friend Ikey about master's on he said that it's not a Twitter replacement.
It is very much a Google plus replacement because people are terrified that Google is going to pull the plug on Google plus.
For good reason, as they pull the plug on many of their other free products.
So it's people kind of using that as a hedge against that.
I was saying two points here, two things.
Yeah, Google plus.
I mean, yeah, technical people knew about and stuff like that.
Why did that not take off also mutant Casper?
That's the shame, really.
So you've got to look at this in terms of what's the incentive to change?
If you've got on terms of operating systems, if your windows works,
you've got used to all the clocks, you've got used to all the little things that it does,
the things that you've got to put up with, you've just got used to it as well as.
Then switch over to Linux, where's the plus?
What does it gain you?
You're going to, you know, if you're changing software, what does it gain you to do such and such?
You know, what does it gain you?
In the less you've got to actually gain, the less you're going to do it.
If you're talking about moving from some other platform to all joined Twitter or whatever,
but who's there?
If the influencers are there, the people in the tech world, the people in the fashion world,
people in the music world, the promoters, the entertainers, the actors, the directors,
they follow that.
If you're all on this platform, then that's the platform you're going to go on to.
How it's done is irrelevant.
Whether it's proprietary or home source is irrelevant, whether it's federated,
it's irrelevant, that's what gets people using it.
Because if the people aren't there, then they're not going to get,
there's no incentive for anyone else to go there, other than just to talk to the same like-minded people.
What are you talking about the network effect, aren't you?
Yeah, basically, yeah.
The analogy I would say with that is, if you've got five cell phone companies,
but they're not compatible with each other, if all your mates are on one provider,
that makes no sense for you whatsoever to go on a different provider,
because that's not where your mates are.
If they're not compatible, you can't talk to them.
So you, as well, go on with the flock, then against it,
and go good or bad, whether that's a good thing or bad thing is irrelevant,
you go with whatever the flock is.
Hence why everyone is still on Twitter and Facebook,
and to a lesser extent, Google+, because even with Google+,
you can talk about it as a minority service, but there are still hundreds of thousands
if not millions of people using it.
Exactly, exactly.
So you're talking about all these merits of all these different things.
And then tell you're doing that, then, you know, that's the reality.
Who was it who was just saying that they are a regular user of Macedon?
So I'm on my phone, so I can't see exactly who's talking all the time.
It was Ty, it's me.
Okay, well, my experience of Macedon was quite brief,
and what I experienced there was,
well, whatever the opposite of people who have Pepe as their avatar,
put it that way, people who are into, I suppose you might say alternative lifestyles,
and, you know, I don't want to get too political,
and things that would be, I suppose some people would say on the left or whatever,
but sort of quite extreme examples of that kind of thing.
And to me, that turned me off it, because although I'm all about living,
let live, you know, I'm not going to criticize anyone for anything they want to do
with consenting adults or whatever, but I'm not particularly interested in hearing about that kind of stuff.
And that was my brief experience of it, whereas I find that with Twitter,
you sort of get what you want.
There are loads of nutters on either side of the political spectrum,
and then there's quite sensible people in the middle like me.
And maybe it was the particular server that I joined or whatever,
but like it immediately put me off.
Well, is that not more about, well, you're saying you can pick and choose
what you get from the platform by who you follow and what,
what different things you do.
That's you that dictates that and you get kind of things that it thinks it's relevant to you.
That's, is that not just saying that Twitter and Facebook,
I've got their algorithms and their filter system figured out,
whereas Macedon hasn't, and it's not going to be an algorithm.
I think this sort of comes down to algorithms and filters and everything.
It simply comes down to the kind of person who is going to be drawn to those platforms.
If you're going to be a sort of relatively normal for one of a better word person,
who sort of politically, relatively central and perhaps a little bit left leaning
or perhaps a little bit right leaning.
I mean, I'm quite left leaning as it goes, but like if you're relatively central,
then you're going to be drawn to the sort of mainstream platforms,
whereas if you are politically or if your lifestyle is a little bit on the edge
of normality, again, for one of a better word,
then you're sort of going to be drawn to these alternative platforms.
And Gab, I used as the prime example of the kind of platform that I steer well clear of,
I signed up to it not knowing what it was and quickly discovered that it was for Pepe types.
But then what I'm saying is like,
if you get banned from Twitter for being extreme, then maybe you deserve it.
I don't know, I mean, that's probably a controversial thing to say.
And there's some people who have been banned from Twitter without deserving it.
But generally speaking, if you're extreme on any of those extremes,
then maybe I don't want to hear from you, put it that way.
But another thing, as for this censorship debate,
I mean, I know this hasn't come up here yet, but this sort of follows on naturally from that,
that people complain that Twitter are banning people and how dare they're censoring people.
But then you think to yourself, well, hang on a second.
This isn't the government telling you you can't speak in public or whatever.
This is a private company who has a service which is free to use.
And if whoever owns that company decides that they don't want you to use it,
then that's their choice.
It's like if someone run in a power borough restaurant doesn't want you to come in there anymore,
even if that is something as controversial as no black, no Irish,
if they decide that they don't want black people or Irish people to come in there,
then I believe that they should have the right to do that.
And we as decent people should have the right to say,
well, I'm neither black nor Irish, but I'm certainly not going to spend any money with you
because I don't agree with you politically.
And, you know, so it's that same thing with Twitter.
If they want to ban people, then they should be allowed to do so.
But that comes back to these, the alternatives that people who do get banned,
who sort of are forced to the edges of things.
And as far as I can see on one side, on the left, you've got messed it on,
and on the right, you've got a gal.
And I just personally have no interest in either of those extremes
because I never say anything that is going to get me banned from Twitter.
See, I know what that is.
I've been back, I'm sorry, you're going to my second here.
I've been back around to the better filtering though,
because if you imagine, however many millions of people are on Twitter,
if there was no way that they could filter different things
and different interests and click like-minded people,
if everyone got the same feed, there's no way it would have grown to what it is.
There's no, because exactly you make Twitter what you want
by picking and choosing the filter to show the content
and the types of content you want to interact with.
You know, but that comes from a huge, huge user base.
Okay, I'd like to interrupt, but we just passed another time zone
at the 0330 UTC.
We'd like to welcome Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada,
St. John's, Conception Bay, South.
Quarterbrook and Gander. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year, hey.
Yeah, happy New Year.
These soft, now-a-time things are quite interesting in a way.
I think there's one in India as well, but anyway, I know this is all about
so it was very to social networks, obviously.
But I'm just thinking, politics, central, left wing, right wing,
ethics, all this stuff.
Maybe that's, you know, maybe an amality in this context.
I always thought it would be like, you know, going to Windows,
doing Windows, because that's what most people do,
and they really think about it.
Because we're all different, we go and use Linux,
and then some people who are a bit more,
whatever they go and use a Mac,
which I hate my point sort of, come across, but, you know,
I just...
When your point does, it is valid, but can I extend that
and try and be a little bit more controversial?
And there are two types of, like, source licenses.
You've got the permissive licenses, like your BSDs,
and everything.
And then, of course, you've got your copy left, your GPL.
And a friend of mine, Paddy, he put forward the argument that
people who are into the BSD type licenses
tend to be more sort of libertarian,
whereas the people who are more into the GPL
tend to be more authoritarian, sort of left-leaning authoritarian,
as opposed to, I suppose, right, to some extent,
but do you not mean, like, the libertarian versus authoritarian,
divide?
I think that has been...
I suppose I have that.
I mean, I have the GPL.
A better way to say this, sorry, is sort of populist versus globalist,
that divide.
Rather than left and right, I don't really like that divide,
because I think there's people in both camps on either side,
but you've got your populists and your globalists.
And your globalists tend to be more GPL,
and your populists tend to be more biased to it.
I think...
I think with licenses, I mean, obviously the GPL is great
in all that, but obviously, you could put...
Obviously, it's just down when you put on the stream end of this,
because everything will be free-soft, it will be on the GPL,
but that's kind of the exception to that in a way.
But, yeah, that's more about, I guess, more about the ethics,
and the morals, and the whole software freedom thing in that context,
obviously, in an open source.
It also has a few licenses.
Perhaps she, BSD, that's a bit more,
or the other side to that in this context, I suppose.
Sorry, I killed the conversation they didn't know
with all my political nonsense.
No, I think we're talking about...
We're trying to sort of say which...
which license or which kind of grouppeach one would sort of go under,
and then it depends a little bit, but...
Yeah.
All right, well, let's have that license debate, shall we?
Let's have permissive versus copy left.
Where do people stand on that?
Well, I do realize that, as right in between the two of them,
but that I'm sort of spreaders, eh, eh, guys, eh, come on, no, eh, no.
But both broadly and the same...
Come on, just shake hands.
All right, well, put it this way.
If you produced software, I don't know if you're doing that,
I don't know anything about you,
but say you wrote some software,
would you be looking to release it under, well, of the three,
a proprietary license, a GPL license or a permissive license?
The GPL.
My first instinct would be GPL,
and I would need a look more beyond that,
close of the time, that my instinct would be GPL,
and I think the reason for that is,
because I chose Linux,
and Linux is broadly GPL.
That's what I go with.
A lot of the stuff that's on Linux is GPL,
so that's where all of my sort of computing experience comes from,
is GPL, so it's only natural that if I create anything
that falls into that robot, basically.
I think I'm similar to Gordon here,
and I'm probably a programmer,
but yeah, I mean, DPL is about the four freedoms.
I know some people think he's crazy and all the rest of it,
but actually, if I read a DNU dog philosophy section,
I do agree, or to the most extent,
with Richard Stalman's articles on this website,
and I did it at a young age as well,
and I do to this day.
I don't agree with him with Hansen,
that like all software should be completely free software,
absolutely everything,
but all the demo software I think ideally should be,
feeling computer games,
because it's not because of the whole society,
capitalism, all the rest of it,
that we were talking about earlier, I believe.
But I also know that I did do a talk,
I mean, I saw Richard Stalman talk,
three years ago at Baffy University,
or 2013, whatever that was,
and I remember a guy came up to him after a while,
asked a question like,
I do software, but I actually released my code
under the BSD license,
and he sort of said to him,
and my bad for doing this,
is it wrong for me to do that,
and of course he was a bit like,
ideally you should pull it under the DPL,
however, I think it's better than it being closed or else,
but I know that the license is very little bit about the rights,
and what can and can't be done,
and so it depends a little bit on the program,
and what purpose it's going to have,
because certain programs generally are better off
under the Apache license,
or the BSD license,
because of certain reasons,
but I do generally think that,
probably regardless of that,
that actually most software should be under the actual DPL.
The difference is,
do you want to restrict people's freedom,
or do you want them to be completely free
to do whatever they want with the code that you've produced?
If you want to restrict their freedom to make it proprietary,
that's the fifth freedom,
and by all means make it GPL,
but if you want it to be completely free,
if you want to put software out there,
and say to someone,
you can do whatever you want with this,
you are free,
completely free,
you're free to do amazing things with it,
and you're free to do bad things with it,
because it is totally free,
then you use a permissive license like BSD,
or Apache, or MIT, or whatever.
Whereas if you want to say,
well, hang on,
you're free to do what you want with it to an extent,
but I'm going to restrict a little bit of that freedom
to do bad things with it,
and make it proprietary,
you've got to keep it free,
and you're restricted in that way,
then it makes sense to use a GPL license.
Now, this remains me,
or Hitchhiker's Gate to the Galaxy,
from the Philosopher's Command,
with the demand of registered structures
between our levels of disbelief,
that,
no, dammit, I forgot what was going to say again,
that's the wonders of weed.
Yeah, yeah, there was a license that,
if I remember correctly,
I'm not a program,
but I believe, yeah,
I think it's BSD or Apache,
maybe even both of them,
where it basically says,
okay, this is open source code,
however,
you can actually use some of this code,
in proprietary software,
if you chose to,
and of course, that's what the GPL is,
very much,
how against,
where more relaxed license is on.
Yeah, it's essentially,
with the GPL,
you've got to produce the changes back,
whether or accept it or not,
so if you're turning it proprietary,
if you're doing something that makes it incompatible
or whatever,
you're breaking the GPL,
if you don't release those changes back,
whereas the BSD,
you can take it and make it proprietary,
you can do whatever you want,
you can change it,
whatever way you want,
don't need to let anyone know of anything,
you can turn it proprietary,
you can do whatever the hell you want with it.
So it is a genuinely more free license,
but yeah,
so on a slightly side point,
does anyone know of hand?
Because I've started getting into app development.
Is it possible?
I would prefer open source,
I'd prefer GPL,
something like that.
But does anyone know of hand,
if you can release software
in the app store,
in Apple,
and in the Play Store,
with Google,
as open source software?
Is that possible?
I'm not sure quite,
but I believe that to get an actual app into the app store,
on Apple,
you have to actually pay to get it in there,
whereas obviously,
you'll pay,
I think you just get it added in,
and we'll get accepted through the process.
Okay, well,
the Google Play Store is far easier to get applications into.
As long as it passes certain tests,
as long as it's not obviously malware or whatever,
it can get in there,
in fact, even some malware
speaks in quite easily.
So you've got no problem at all there.
With the Apple App Store,
I know,
or at least I think,
last time I looked into this,
GPL,
copy left software,
is explicitly banned
from the Apple App Store.
I'm not sure about permissively licensed stuff,
like BSD or whatever,
MIT Apache.
I'm not sure I think that's okay,
but,
last I heard GPL software was explicitly banned
from the App Store,
so that kind of sucks, really.
But there's plenty of proper free software in the,
in the Play Store,
because I've, like,
antenna part, for example,
is a podcast player that I use,
and that's in F-Droid as well.
Yeah.
And,
what's one subject of App Store's?
The Windows App Store,
I believe,
actually basically,
I was recently about how Google Chrome got in there recently,
but then,
it, like,
bypassed the Microsoft thing,
and, apparently,
it only accepting browsers
that actually use the index for a rendering engine,
so,
that doesn't include Google Chrome.
And then, they removed it,
but they found, like,
a clever way to get it in there,
or get it downloaded,
before it in there,
whatever it was.
And,
yeah,
and then Apple didn't allow certain browsers in there,
as well, I think, as well.
All right.
So, that's what I need to work on,
isn't it?
In that case,
it's not going to be GPL.
I want to be able to do cross-platform stuff.
At the moment,
I've started learning,
I've got a Mac,
or a Macbook Pro,
for writing,
and, well, now I'm going to start using it
for development, as well.
I've got an iPhone,
rather than Android,
primarily because of the ASD thing.
It was, like,
it's an easier,
there's more lockdown,
which I used to see as a bad thing,
but now I'm seeing as a good thing,
because you've got less options
to distract you.
So, you know,
that's,
the first platform I'm developing for,
is iOS.
And I don't tend to put on the,
the story,
but I want to make it
some sort of a free software,
some sort of an open source,
in some form.
And now, at least,
I know GPL, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
What do you mean by less attractions
for the Apple thing?
And also,
I mean,
well, yeah, iOS is,
but it's dapper-wide,
and I say,
yeah, there's less choice
to do things,
if that's what you mean, as well.
Well, that's basically it.
It's like,
Apple design,
a lot of their stuff.
I mean, I can use
pretty much most of the Apple
suite of programs on the,
on the,
on the already installed
on the iPhone.
And there's only one way
to do certain things.
The Apple have got a specific way
they want you to do something.
And you just learn how to do that.
That.
And you learn to live
within those limits.
And I used to think
of that as a bad thing.
But,
because when I'm,
when I'm faced with too many options,
this is the ASD thing.
When I'm faced with too many options,
I tend not to use any.
So, at least I'm getting the use
out of some of the things on an iPhone
that another would get the use out of
on an Android.
Because it was just too many choices.
Yeah, well,
I think choice can be confusing.
I don't remember how I was trying to set up
a guy with high-functioning autism
from Holland.
We're in it for a few years,
but online as well.
But we,
we've got many some progress,
but yeah,
well, the choice would be confusing.
But that's,
although it's not just ASD,
it's people in general
that can.
I mean, I have an ASD cousin over here.
Sorry, I was there.
Yeah.
I was diagnosed with ASD just,
a bit less than a week ago now.
Yeah.
When I was researching it,
I put it down to the Asperger's range
or the Asperger's going to part
of the spectrum,
but yeah,
it's been confirmed as of the start
on the middle of December.
Yes, we got back on the system.
And,
yeah,
it was in autism.
ASD is a bad thing,
but it's not.
And we had that.
And also,
what I didn't say earlier,
actually, which is,
I should have put,
maybe say that.
Well, I'll say it now.
It's actually some people with these things,
apparently you have,
special abilities.
Like somebody could, for example,
go out on the street and then
go and paint what they saw,
basically, like a street painting
from memory, picture memory.
There was somebody who could actually
read the credits at the end of the film.
I remember every single line
that I heard about,
and there's various things like this.
Maybe people don't have a special ability
as such.
I guess I'll remember they do,
but I don't quite know what it is,
but,
yeah.
I mean, and, and film us.
That, I've got that as well.
I can really focus in on something.
And then you can have a brainstorm.
And I can usually see, like,
multiple layers ahead of
where a change would be.
I can see a little bit of the big picture
and various changes like that.
And that's in between,
those points I'm just using the force, you know?
Right, yeah.
And I'm just beginning with the other chapter.
Why did it take so long to get diagnosed with that?
Why so long?
Yeah.
For me?
Well, yeah.
I mean, I mean,
you're obviously a bit older now.
And so on.
Oh, right.
So long to get hate that diagnosed with that.
That's a good question.
That's a really good question.
And that's the only question
that's been consuming me since I've discovered this.
Like, I'll be 45 just very shortly.
And I was like,
why did it take me until I was 44?
Like, 44?
That's,
there's plenty of people
who don't live that long.
Why did it take me until 44?
To finally figure this out.
And I don't know.
And it was just random chance
that I happened to read an article about
some guy coming to terms
where I'm finding out he's autistic
and middle age.
And for some reason,
I was reading that.
And I thought, oh,
wonder what that is.
And I went down the path of autism
and then,
then Asperger's,
whatever.
And then, you know,
I was in the,
the whole,
basically,
that's where I am.
But, um,
you know, I don't know.
May I,
uh,
as an experience,
Asperger's,
Asperger's,
who was diagnosed very late,
2003,
uh,
in my 40s,
I can explain some of it.
Hi.
Okay.
I got a little confession,
man.
I was like,
yeah, why not?
Um,
it allows you in the general,
in general,
general,
but actually,
I got diagnosed as having,
apparently,
some of that as well,
but quite a young age.
But the thing is,
this label has been
emotionally
bad
labels
or something that I'm not doing,
you know,
it's not really being a very good thing,
unless you're like claiming benefits
or something like that.
Then,
these things
can actually work for your advantage,
although,
it can be harder these days
because you can have all these
medical reports,
and it's not good enough,
because those people go
and say,
yeah, I've got depression,
and I've got this,
so I've got that,
and they use some professional,
and they get that,
some report,
and then,
you know,
so you have to do things,
you have to
play the game sometimes.
But, um,
but a lot of people
are on the spectrum,
at least,
to some extent.
Uh,
well, hang on a minute.
A lot of people
don't realize that.
Well, hang on,
you can't believe it,
literally,
literally every single person
in the world is on the spectrum,
somewhere that is the definition
of a spectrum.
Yeah,
on one end,
you've got people
who can barely function at all,
because they are so severely autistic.
For example,
someone,
I know extended family,
who is,
is mid-20s,
but he is,
as the mind of
a sort of five or six
year old.
Um,
and so, you've got that people
on one end,
and then, on the other end,
you've got,
I don't know,
that these supremely confident people and necessarily everybody is on the
spectrum and most people are towards the centre of the spectrum but then
people who are autistic or aspergers or whatever you want to call it are towards
one end of the spectrum so it's funny that people often say that person's on
the spectrum and that's a meaning and a thing to say because everybody is
somewhere on that spectrum. Yeah yeah well yeah I guess I mean that's sort of
what I'm saying it needs to some extent people have at least some ASP traits
if they realise it or not and but yeah but then it's always labeling and it
can be seen as bad thing especially without certain research done about the
subject, varying on person in the context and all the rest of it and but
probably a lot of the technical people as I said earlier are on the autistic
spectrum and needs to some extent and also want to say you were talking about
confident people like charities as your example but I mean we've got
extras and introverts I guess and most of us are probably introverts because we
are you know more technical we're more logical in certain way we're probably
quite introverted most of us and we're not the kind of people who are going
to be doing those drama probably for example fear to being at one stage like
that you know that kind of stuff we may be public speaking but that's
different but I'm talking about you know I'm not like fear to and stuff like
that some some most probably do but if you see obviously well I personally do
I there's an event that I organise in London for the last couple of years and
I'm hoping to do on a 2010 called Foster Live where we do live podcasts and I'm
fine to stand up on that stage well sit down on the stage anyway and talk in
front of people but that doesn't mean that I'm not towards the autistic end of
the spectrum there's a person I know very very well I've known for a very
long time and he in the last 10 years as qualified as a GP general practitioner so
it's not his area of expertise but he is convinced that I am pretty far along
the autistic spectrum you know he basically thinks that I am I show a lot of
autistic traits but at the same time I can get up I can play guitar in front of
people and and the thing is that like I I do have pretty crippling social
anxiety when it comes to new situations alcohol there's a brilliant drug for
that as far as I'm concerned but also like you have to force yourself into
situations and like it sort of goes almost to a polar opposite where before I
go into a situation where I'm on stage whatever I am crippled with anxiety
about that but the second I get on stage I just have no choice but to get
on with it and either you shrink freeze and run off stage or you just get on
with it yeah yeah and you can do like I was saying you can do public speaking
of things like that like do public speaking groups toast masters I'll have
get down Brussels and you know to fold them I want to give some groups over there
also man it's coming up in a few weeks then but but I was thinking I was
saying sort of introvert extrovert why grew up there's a lot of amateur drama
groups now I'll see certain people here will have all the aspects as well who are
in these kind of drama groups but I think generally speaking a lot of these
people are probably not really autistic or not that autistic because it's you
know it's that kind of thing which was what I meant earlier as my thing
as well yeah for anyway it's almost 4 a.m. in the in London the UK and I ought to
go to bed but I need to plug some things first sorry for the advert but I have to
plug my two podcasts so if you want to hear that this is not necessarily for
people here now but I don't know how many people listen to this after it's
released but check out latenightlinux.com for a kind of much
swearier version of this and if you want kind of safer work version of it check
out um Linux action news.com I have to plug my thing sorry guys
yeah that's fine that's all HB. I was about as well to some extent and yes it's
getting late here in the UK but that's not ordering me right now and I don't know
like Gordon but you need to get some sleepers and like so yeah yeah nice change you
and happy new year isn't it? Yeah happy new year guys I'd like to stay longer
and I'd very much like to stay up all night but unfortunately I've got to be at
work on Tuesday so it's about time went to bed so yeah nice chatting to you all
and yes picture again sometime. Well be the same! That was the choose.
David Aharan. Right. Right so continuing that subject I suppose
but um I mean it sounds to me like you're a bit shocked Gordon it's a little bit that you'd be
diagnosed now we'll found out and it's like oh we've got this you've got that or am I
misunderstanding because we're on the podcast again there aren't we? It's more right what I've
seen is there's different types different camps of reaction there's one like oh no I've
not got it it can't be right I can't just did denial another point of um what I have and it's
the end of the world or for me I'm sort of relieved because it explains so much the problem is
for the last four to five months my brain's been thinking back so many different little things
and incidents and things that have happened and that all of a sudden I've got a new angle on
and it's like ah that explains it that explains this and it's just coming to terms with all these
kind of ripple effects that have brought me to where I'm just now that's what I'm shocked about
like how's it taking so long for anyone to pick up on this and even just to suggest you might
want to sort of look into this and see because as soon as I did come across it I started I did
two online tests both different and I scored highly in both and like you know what that can't
be just coincidence um then I started reading more and then thought you know what all of this
sounds a bit right I think I need a professional verification of this and I got it a minute
took me two appointments over a couple of months but I got it and it was right all along
right okay but yeah yeah well yeah happens people get diagnosed later on as well all people
suspect it what can happen as well as people have a good you know who goods 20 years possibly even
inspecting that they have autism or some aspects rates or whatever or possibly other things maybe
ADHD or I make these other things possibly as well or instead but either way you know good 20 years
of also suspecting that they have something and then living with that and then and then one day
sort of being like right need to really find that or let's do whatever let's get diagnosed and
happens but um no that's that's about definitely what they're the kind of I know that's different
I know that's different but I'm saying that can happen as well Sam but I know you're saying you
will let you have no idea and then you suddenly found that or thought you had this and that and then
you found that but I spoke of all and then you went and got diagnosed well what the what the
way that you you'd be describing that there um is the idea that you'd aware something isn't right
and then when you do see what it is you realize it and recognize it or that's what it is
whereas um for me it's been the other way around it and that it's for all my life I wasn't even
aware that there was this extra thing until um until I found out about asparagus and about autism
and I realized like that that pretty much that's all these different articles about asparagus
that that pretty much describes me so many of the things there I have to at least some degree
like that's that's too much a coincidence that can't be right and there were definitely
them different orders or whatever the test is slightly different but it amounts to the same thing
and I'm looking down the list and I've got yet I've got that yet I do that I I do that I do that
I'm to do that or I don't do or actually I do do that and it's it's just so much fits so so much
fits and I think the big difference here is whether you think that this is a good thing or a bad thing
is if I I know I knew I've known since since I've since I've had August September ish when I
started looking at it I knew I had asparagus the difference is I I think this is I think knowing
about it is a good thing I don't think it in itself is a good or a bad thing I think the fact that
I now know about it means that I now can adapt my environment I can take advantage and play
my strengths now I now know what battles I've never really won so there's no point in me trying to
fight um so I know myself better than a lot of people know themselves um so all it was for me
was a confirmation of I can then go back to my employer and if it comes down to needing a wee bit
of kind of legal clout to make some minor adjustment to my work environment that's actually yeah yeah yeah yeah
actually have a point there come think of it um actually asparagus and autism will will go
on the disabilities generally speaking as well of some so so yeah in the case of an employer you should
be able to go back and be like oh you know what I've got autism I've got autism so I need you to
ideally do these you adjust and run for me because yeah yeah and what they've done
without the official diagnosis is pretty decent it's just the the big difference as when it gets
when it's official um when it gets official um it means that uh that all the people in support
positions are aware of it so I don't need to keep keep exploring each time that's the big difference
and that's no four o'clock is just passed again yeah some more time but I don't know uh I said
disability but I mean the thing here as well is actually people with autism would I mean I
mentioned special interests earlier and things so you berries by person what they're what they
say is that somebody's autism has a specific interest that they are the most interested in and maybe
dedicate their life to or something you say with yourself and as one with his free software
stuff that he does but it's not just him but but yeah computers then that's whatever it is
and then these people are very focused on that interest and a very clever when it comes to that
specific thing as well very intelligent very clever that is that's just hyper focus that's
just looking at something whatever if it interests you if it mentally interests you but I've found
I can see so many can a knock on effect right if they change this and then if you do this like
this and then line this up here and then actually remove this a bit behind here and then we'll do
this and I can see all the ripple effects of all these changes and that's something that a lot of
people are just like baffle but how how can you possibly see that get that conclusion from
from this set of circumstances and I'll lay it out all out backwards now like how the how can
you see that how can you possibly see that they can't you argue the logic but they're like why
how like how I can do that it's like it is a hyper focus thing where if I'm really interested
in something then I'm going to go all out on it to learn every aspect of it that I can.
Yeah yeah and that's what as Aspie's generally speaking do or apparently I mean
yeah if there's something you're really really interested then as an Aspie you can probably focus
on it and hours and hours and hours and hours non-stop or hardly any breaks as well and that's
something that people who are the other one is called neurotypical I hope you did look up
found that find out about that was right yeah yeah yeah neurotypical average people neurotypical
n-n-t notes whether it's good be right they can't focus on or the on something for so long usually
because it's just this is not like that and that's what somebody said here earlier that in the case
of say programming or some of this computer technical stuff is very logical very focused
you spend a lot of time doing it as well that's yeah essentially techy kind of stuff as
well suited to that that sort of way of thinking may I tell you how I found about my ash burger
yeah so I go for it well first there's two halves one when I was a late teen a friend of mine who
studies body language and was very clever about using it said her body language is off the wall
and you can't be transmitting non verbally what what your body is saying
so some years later I lost my job and I was living with my mother who was driving me crazy because
if I'd cut my job I could have moved out she would have lost her house staff well after a while I go
into the handicapped branch of our government to see what was going on with my nerves they test me
out and and a couple of three three day evaluation and then a couple of extra interviews and I find out
that I have ash burger and the body language stuff and some of the hyper focus and the
in you know all handful of things turned out to be the the reason you know a lot of things
were going on it also means because I'm now on disability I have a house when my mother would have
gone into nursing home I would have been on the street so I can hang on a little longer here
as long as my disability and I can support the house one thing that also even when I'm dealing with
a counselor I find in social situations I run basically a chest type search and sometimes I can find
failure out by using you know a broad search and while I'm thinking about this stuff my
counselor is saying well you're shutting down and I'm not I'm just just like between moves
because dealing with a neurotypical especially a neurotypical which has a program
I have to see if I can create an interface if it all possible and honest interface
also aspes like stability and I was raised in a very chaotic alcoholic household that's part of
the reason I have post-traumatic stress but also my logic has been discovered in a very combative
environment and sometimes it's hard for my support people to understand that I am coming from a
very different point of view a very sharp end point of view so I just what was that about getting
a house because of the the asperers or whatever you were saying well because I'm on disability
I was under disability protection if I just been an unemployed guy with neurotypical I would have
been on the street oh yeah yeah and the UK it's well pens a bit as far as what counts you in
some extent because some counties have more money for this than others but supported living places
are becoming more the thing in certain places and yeah I mean a way where you can get like a flat
and then you've got people you've got an office there as well and stuff 24 hours if you need
somebody get you want one support people in and things like this and so it's not just a council flat
but you actually have support in the place itself but there's which is good good but certain
places don't really have enough money for that still councils local councils which is a shame
because it's like especially in certain city that I would default like in moving the Bristol
and places like this a lot of homeless they'll on top of that but yeah learning difficulties
autism or possibly other things mental health and all the rest of it and and something else I
wanted to say earlier or be mean to say is that something like autism has burgers actually goes
down as under the sort of mental health stuff however it's not really mental health it's it's more
like a different way of thinking and things like this but yes a bit different and so on so it
kind of goes under mental health but it's not it's not really mental health well it's our CPUs
are wired differently although people's with autism usually have something else that actually
is mental health be like OCD or a HD or bipolar or any of these kind of things anxiety there
is always possible all this kind of stuff you see with me a lot of I don't pick up social cues
that's what good that's what good and so are you about lacking social cues and
going nice little here by the way yeah I'm still here okay that might carry on then
I mean that's one of the reasons why it isn't diagnosed you're not you don't necessarily rock and
do the standard autism motions yeah it's an invisible thing it's something that
that you know it isn't easily seen from the outside so if you look at someone with that there's
you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to tell it's people that can fit and generally speaking with
society they they've got enough about them that they they manage to mask the mask to mask it by
various things but if you know what you're looking for it does stand out am I on well it's a
difference to to to be a crude analogy it's the difference between being blind and being colorblind
yeah well it's a hidden disability really these things it's being accomplished see or you can't see
if you're looking out for like all you said but it's not like somebody's in a wheelchair or
or something like that that's just you know right there in front of you and you can't miss that
and it does dark but yeah though I hidden disability you can put autism under that you can put
autism under that you can put various things under that it's not it's not just it's not specifically
the fact that it's hidden it's the fact that people don't know what to do with someone out how
the things that you wouldn't think of as as being like annoying or something can can unintentionally
be incredibly annoying and things like that so you could be doing stuff without even being aware
if you're talking to someone like an aspect you're doing things you don't realize it it's just
like you don't know how to deal with it the person just looks absolutely normal but yet the
brain is wired just that little bit different that it's almost like a time bomb like a ticking time
or something just waiting for an excuse to go off well with me especially growing up in a very
combative household I was kind of shut shut down so I didn't I didn't have these open friendly
awareness I had it for awareness and I still do but at a very high level but it's more of a
tripwire not not a social awareness also I was raised as a 50s kid during the 60s so that didn't
help much however as an ashy person I was able to analyze what was going on around me and it
was sort of like stranger in a strange land and in fact part of my survival at home or in social
situations was developing an adaptive personality so that I could adapt if I was with
motorcycle guys I could adapt there fish people with fish people people at MIT all different
environments I adapted to I would develop a overlay an emulation of a more normal person
I I don't really like the word normal in the content I don't remember yeah it's a bit you know it's
a bit uh well if you know that we say average person or nor a typical or whatever but that because
I mean I used to I mean I just study social media school for a bit and one thing you learn there
is it has a term called norm things that are generally seen as being normals no such thing as normal
really but you know but yeah but yeah well a typical average person whatever the problem here as
well and I think I was sort of saying it earlier but when when you if you are different enough
to the people who think they're all I'm gonna use the word again they're in the normal and all this
you are definitely not not not to be used but they see you badly they see you differently they
see you as being weighed possibly they'll know the rest of it yeah not not to be confused with
garfields v pal normal it's not no ham it's specifically normal um no yeah it does matter
it's different but um I don't see I don't see any issues there at all I think it depends on
how you want your look at it and now I can now play my strengths um yeah I don't know what I was
me with that but carry on well one of the things that I learned in the 60s being sent to school
in short hair and four shirts and polish shoes while everybody else was going in jeans and sneakers
and t-shirts is while they were open to folks who were doing their own thing if it had a very narrow
bandwidth unless you were doing your own thing that looked like the the thing of the guy next to you
yeah so the rotten but only to our point and then stepping back into the 50s when I got home
because my folks were very small small town rural america raised was a little difficult
but you know also it was a very tense environment is one of the reasons why
I believe my survival was supported largely by the vacations I spent in the country where I was
welcome at the house where I was um assigned by birth it was made quite clear that that was not
my home because I didn't have my name on the deed something I do right now after both my parents
have passed the point it's kind of funny that people they tolerate weirdness as long as your
awareness fits into a specific subcategory but the older I've gotten the less I really cared like
if if I want to get weird then I'm just gonna get weird like I don't really care what other people
think about it yeah yeah I think I agree with that that they kind of accept weird or different
to an extent especially it's kind of funny or sort of thing more so than whatever but I guess
that's yeah I'm getting old and I'm 30 now and I'm thinking like you know that do I care so much
about certain things now that well you know they've been in this year of the years or at least
mentally you know things you think about things that you're not really happy about like where you
look where your life has gone or hasn't gone you know the direction things have happened and all the
rest of it there you are and then you and then you also wonder and then if it's like you should care
about what other people think you you ask them out or not and that and I guess it's definitely true
they all do you get less you care I'm not always but listen listen to this the old man what was it
30 old man oh like it back in murder the old man sitting on the mountain top all aged
not as old as you that's Gordon that's I said I'm guessing older so I mean I am old
according to certain ages because it's like oh you're 30 now oh and then older people would
are 30 you're not that older I'm about twice your age gangster I know I know we get and I could
add another 60 but I could add another 25 to that because of I've survived 25 years more than I
figured I see there you go I thought that was an old gentleman's lodge at this moment in time
it's like a country club of all the older gentlemen my most years older people and I'm 30 but so
bit although I think I forget a few younger ones on the time as well you're younger than me as well
they're they're in leisure mission should you accept that what's my mission find someone younger than
you to comment that comment the mumble journal I just turned 31 so not me and I don't mean you
was helium where he's a similar age then very similar yeah for what I know the people in here I
would say the mean is about 30 well 30 people I think it's most the 40 plus that come on HCR really
so yeah 40 to 60 to 70 I think we do get I think now some some children sometimes we'll back
at nearly that age actually well the court dog was Adam's I've spent quite a few years dead
for like spottersies she would age it's like I mean yeah 30 so if you you know a lot of people
who are so 11 years younger than me they will think I'm I'm old then when it's like only 11 years
but they will think I'm old obviously older people who by five years and so on will think I'm not
that old and but that's a way to like isn't it I guess they'll be the less it matters when
somebody's we've been friends tonight I think I think that's 15 years 20 years 10 years
I think there's there look a threshold it's the first you're age you don't really notice it
and then when you get to your sort of late 30s early 40s that's when you look at people who are
in the workplace that that could be your son that could be your daughter that's when you go through
that threshold of you are the parents age and then I think at that point it maybe lessens a bit
and then it gradually you get to that you overlap into that point with the grandparents age
but at that time I think you probably arguably care less it's just that initial sort of thing
getting used to well also I'm an old spinster because I took care of my family until they passed
well the survivor path and I'm on my own for the first time at you know in my 50s
with a lot of well a lot of stuff that I had to deal with left over is from a combative youth
or youth income that I wasn't that much of a player more of a survivor so it's interesting
getting all those skills that most people get in their teens or 20s or maybe 30s this late in life
yeah I mean I that's certainly feel like I'm kind of starting again even to the point of
a part of my 2018 plans is by the end of the year I'll be loving somewhere else I don't know where
I don't know how yet but I'll be 11 somewhere else and then when I do it I'm going to be just
leaving a lot of stuff just putting a lot of stuff in the tent and not doing that much with me at all
just sort of shedding the skin and going you know you can move in with me buddy
yes we've been to different places I mean I mean it wasn't quite planned but it ended up being so
and I live in a different place now for about three months I don't know if there's any
females down very from why I used to while I was living with my most of my family but still
and it's both more narrowed a city so this is great to get into the Bristol and from off
nice laugh you talk about seeing somebody you say oh that person could be young enough to be my
son or daughter and then you think maybe granddaughter or you're telling a story and you're thinking
oh man that was 30 years ago wait a minute 40 years ago no it was 45 years ago
yeah time time becomes a last look no if it was the last to get stretched back the other way
and uh read we get an actually there was something oh they're working on something apparently
where when it's just sort of 80s you can possibly take some drugs and then you can have a much
longer longer life with less pains or whatever so and then we're speaking they say we're
going to live past a hundred or a lot of people soon as well which is a bit strange when you think
about because the world's much more polluted now and things like that but still I was I was doing
my my father Jack saying with a drunk so I come out of my soup of drugs what yeah yeah
the soup of drug or or something that was on the news the other week I'm sort of story about this
let's go see if you take those if you take those drugs earlier in life and get addicted to him you'll
live a much shorter life much much shorter than a hundred well it depends on the drug doesn't that
how do y'all good tag guessing moron or it doesn't happen
I ain't jumping in the middle of anything going on am I talking about living past a hundred or
yeah I'm interested to know if anyone did the sand's holiday hack challenge this year
I don't even know what that is but okay what's a online CTF I think it started December 18th
and it's going all the way to January 10th it's got a bunch of Linuxy stuff capturing flags looking
for hashes and submitting those for points and so they got the terminal challenges and then they
have exploiting actual systems not the sort of thing I do I don't know it's the first time
I've ever done one of these types of challenges and I was I don't know it got me really interested
in it because like one of the first challenges you do is the exploit that Equifax got hit with
you're well you got to use that same exploit on one of their servers you got to they have an
a patchy stress server and you got to upload that river shell to them to gain a foothold in that
in that system what do you try to make it do well like they have a set of questions they want
an answer and they're all kind of Santa Claus related you know like once you're logged in once
you've got the river shell for this guy you got to go find his password somewhere on the system and
you know he's a he's a bad programmer because he just left his password hard coded into the website
somewhere you know so go track that down and then like the next challenges you got to find this
document and find run a shot one hash on it and then you submit that for points and
and uh thank you know that kind of thing so I take it you have a sort of a background in pen testing
I do not this is uh the first time I've actually ever done anything like that I kind of
been messing around with over the wire which is another capture the flag type of thing where they
kind of start off you know this this is what CD is you know what can you do with CD and they kind
of make you explore that stuff you know and then they say the file is in a file called read me
well how do you do that how do you look at a file and you know in the command line you know so you
learn cat and file and ls you know it kind of builds up to that you know the the smaller stuff this
one is just definitely way way beyond me and it was a lot of fun learning all the all the different
techniques to get into these systems
50 year audio was pretty broken up how about now that's much better I kind of thought maybe
that was even me breaking up but yeah I posted the link in there so holiday hack challenge.com
and they do one every year uh this still out over yet uh it goes on to uh January 10th to gift
because they have prizes for it you know some a lot of people may be never heard of sands but they're
kind of the the people they're kind of like this you know they they put a lot of thought into uh security
and uh how to prevent exploits from happening and and they do a lot of documentation a lot of training
and if uh they're kind of like the premiere place for your search if you're going to go for them
and so they're given away one free class if you complete all of the challenges and the right
to report of what you did throughout the entire thing
like one of the one of the challenges was the uh your shadow file that guy had removed the
contents of shadow but he happened to have a copy of shadow but you're in a restricted shell
so you had to figure out how to how to use the backup copy of shadow to what the same permission
levels of the regular shadow file to be able to uh make this it to actually run another program
on the system that you're that you know that's what they're trying to make you do is like run some
simple binary that they wrote and uh you know figuring out how to do you know just basic kind of
I mean it's good I think it's basic but I don't know I'm going to quickly jump in here and see
it's been fun but I'm going to call it a night um and tell night sure i'll be on tour
well thanks for coming by Gordon it's always good to see you yeah well they were uh it sounds
like you're going to disappear our full social stuff all for the most part for a year or whatever you
say yeah um uh I've got a twitter account but I really use it I've just found that I got on much
better without lots of distractions um and that's a big part of that is just social stuff so yeah
that's that's kind of why I'm I'm sort of cutting out a lot of that we'll do that slightly
asking to maybe cut all the stuff out off even though it's online but um but yeah but yeah you
can get on with other stuff but yeah look after yourself I guess or whatever I shall indeed do
whatever um out of those two choices whatever sounds like a good job good option to go for
and I'll stick on to you boy and after you yeah thank you guys yes and the same as well and uh
I'll see you later not fun happy new year Gordon uh enjoyed talking you listening to you and
Joe talk about the guitar that I'm not that I know anything about guitars but y'all seem to enjoy
it a lot well you know I'm all in you did a little on well I haven't said that you were exposed
to more than you did out there on probably don't remember any of it I don't blame you anyway I'm
over here see you guys good night okay so is everybody else left here on here at the moment for
America then that's up for me I'm in Texas it's the one thing that takes piano it's very American
for the most parts which is a good and bad thing that's very depending on how it's looked at
well we do try to be international but it all depends on who comes along and participates
I mean we we have hosts from around the globe but well yeah and uh well New York will be in the
New Year's in about six o'clock uh fifty my new year would be incomplete without hearing your voice
so I've been lurking here for a while it's just uh last couple conversations I didn't have a
whole lot to add to it but thank you for saying that minor uh Ashby's are unsettled you'll
you probably have picked that up from our broadcast
well it's a quarter till eleven here in uh Texas and my dog is curled up next to my
feet because she's afraid of firecrackers and the people who don't think they can stay up till
midnight and shoot their rockets off if it's already started popping them uh even though there's
really good fireworks displays available for free these people have to pop them in the neighborhood
where of course it's illegal to do but uh they like to disturb the neighbors or something
well just to glad it's only fireworks well a couple of times I found burned out rockets in my
rain gutters uh from uh neighbors shooting them off and they land on your roof I guess they
could catch your house on fire right I know they'll catch a weak field on fire for sure and uh in
uh July oh I guess I'm lucky it's not July see what I'm doing
early it could you I was going to say Mr. Whirly and you even tell the automatic weapons 500
your neighborhood we'll see in my neighborhood we we just skip the middleman we don't fire
guns into the air we just shoot each other's houses you know that way one you don't lose the bullets
and two you don't have to worry about them going up and actually hitting you know like a kid or
someone's car excellent excellent uh I think we've got a lot of contributions to the
ship no it's a lot fifty one fifty about uh every second or third time you broadcast uh can't
understand the thing you say okay let me go reset my internet see if that does me a bit of good
and you know New Year's Eve 1970 I was in Vietnam and um about 10 minutes or so before midnight they
grounded all aircraft all the helicopters and airplanes and everything had to be on the ground
because four or five minutes before midnight seemed like pretty much everybody in the country
that had a weapon got out and started shooting none of us had blanks sir my accident you for your
service if you could call it that but it sure was pretty there was a lot of tracers and uh flares
and things like that like that well I need to stand stand stand stand for a moment
all right I'm still here I'm still here uh test uh you copied me wasn't me uh uh anyway
I anybody got a good I got a good chat subject anyone here yeah yeah it was it just me
I got an echo thank you thank you thank you from my from my talking yeah I hear it too
okay yeah I don't know what I don't know why I've got that man did you got that I think it's
gone that actually weird right anyway can still be heard now yeah can I be heard at a minute yes okay the
echo is gone weird to know what caused that a couple of weeks ago sorry
folks are you round
is this a better or your headset is that your headset oh that has gone totally
point well a couple of weeks ago I went to reset my router because I lost the internet connection
well a neighborhood pulled down my phone lines and cable and stuff evidently there were
hanging too low for his taste I think that make it your fault well the neighbor had to
decided to take back some property that had been abandoned to the house for 50 years so
yeah but he could have told me you know that the wires needed moving or something but
this guy put a fence up the center of my driveway because that's where the property line is from
World War One hey we defied a war for that stuff well most states if the property line's been
undisputed for you know more than 10 years or whatever that's where the property line is
yeah well I have the problem that my property has just got a pedigree in changing the property
line to match the actual usage property would it would have been very expensive yeah like local
community here or the closest thing to unincorporated town the they found out when they
started arguing about property the original street plots were very very wide and half the
people's houses were sitting out in the middle of the street so they decided we'll be polite not
yes yeah well my neighbor is anything but polite but then again in civilized countries
well you could be dealt with unfortunately in America the dueling is trying to find
are you saying you're not living in a civilized country yes I'm living in a civilized country with
an uncivilized neighbor and some civilized countries allow you to deal with the problem
oh got it rubber hind line in one of his books time enough for love had one of his characters say
there's a certain kind of person who's shooting of which should be considered discharging a firearm
in city limits I really like that book or disturbing the piece or something similar
I think you'd met people like my neighbor
all right your audio is scrambled well if I can pump out my cello this spring up I can live with them
and if I can't that may render the house it's not inhabitable so the problem will resolve itself
he's also blocking the drainage over the hill just to be friendly he'll notice his friendly
as active love does this lead you with enough of a lot to live on and drive car?
well he he was planning on taking my backyard and he was very upset when I didn't give it to him for
nothing I'd ask him to leave a strip so that I'd have a you know six or eight foot backyard but
the fence that he wanted to put up would have taken all of the flat land adjacent to his property
for free of course and he would have given me my driveway back and stream bank and the stream
and a dying willow tree that would have been a major problem it will all open his donations for
giving him a large area behind my property as close to the house as he could run his fence
is there some reason that this didn't start with a negotiation there's something you did do
the sister or something? why should he negotiate he's right he he had an approval of the town
to fence the stream bank because of the way the the lot lines are here and so far he's
he's done nothing that they wanted for any of theeration and he's just taken land
that was abandoned by the previous property owner and he says well I'm paying taxes on it now I
can use it wait man were you okay this is a lot land you were using were you paying taxes?
no it was just that at one time it was used as an easement to build the original business buildings
little but the backside of our property and at one time because a large chunk of his property
is a covered stream he couldn't expand that deck any further so the prior owner couldn't
expand that deck any further so that they limited his use of this little sliver along the stream
now the guy woke up and had to do a little supposed to put in a sediment pond and stuff
for drainage off of his auto repair place try to catch the oil and whatnot and defenced
the property line along my driveway because that's where the property line was because in the
late teens the stream was much wider in this area so it was a property line based on the stream
itself rather than like an old tree it's based on a survey with a very stringent survey
standard that's no longer used anywhere because it is very expensive to meet the
petigree property line basically it's a petigree you know very highly restricted original plot
and the fact the ground has changed in the intervening century without the property lines being
adjustable and since our neighbor our prior neighbor just didn't need to use the property he was
the decent neighbor he sensed the property he used and left us this little triangle to be our side
yard there was no big deal weird well also while the town conservation commission has an agreement
with him and it's a state and department environmental protection project nobody has actually
come down to see that he hasn't met a lot of the standards of his amelioration agreement
he was very upset when the town did not allow him to expand his building as much as he wanted to
and once he got upset he was looking for someone to pay for the problem or for land he could grab to
go back to them and expand his building if he wanted a few years ago my wife and I were looking
at piece of property and I looked at the the maps at the tax assessor's office that and he showed
there was a part of the property was didn't actually belong to the property it was I don't
remember now exactly what it was but it was something that the real estate agent said oh well
that's too small to actually do anything with so it'll never actually be no bail ever do anything
with that so you can use it and it won't affect your use of the property and stuff like that
we just kind of said never mind well my father tried to buy this product the little sliver from
our it's former owner but evidently the owner wanted substantial money for it so he said
well if I've got the use of it I'll just use it and and it left a mess for me the next generation
well sounds like the worked out for him yeah well he figured to lose the house in a divorce
anyway so he wasn't really wanting to invest much work in it that really makes sense
and my mother didn't worry too much about my survival after I was done taking care of her after
all I took my purpose in life man that's harsh so it was getting PTSD and domestic combat
domestic combat well I just I'm here domestic combat well happy New Year's New Year
I'm well yeah well don't know what's going on with my audio sometimes my mother took the word of
day out of the wedding vows shortly after the Korean War which was a bit radical at the time
that would have been fine but that's the only word my dad needed in them and they were married for
30 plus years so well verbal nice lighting he was an alcoholic and she was a co-dependent and a
adult child of alcoholic joining you know as I said this has been this house with the front lines
looks like it's happy New Year's for the East Coast of the USA right it is indeed there's a
there's fireworks going on outside my house well it's quite here right now but I'm a
I'm 55 minutes away and the waste for these countries is a little bit old in the way because it's
just like these two big really so the split up in all these you know time zones
America being one of those countries Australia is another and there's a bus show as well
so yeah I mean partly in 2018 and mostly in 2017 for that one the America but it's just
bit strange isn't it in a way but that's how it is anyway I don't even got like a natural
topic I wonder and some sorts which we are
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