Episode: 2252
Title: HPR2252: 2016-2017 HPR New Year show episode 6
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2252/hpr2252.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 00:27:31

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This is an HBR episode 2,252 entitled HBR New Year Show Episode 6.
It is hosted by Marius Kost and is about 173 minutes long and carries an explicit flag.
The summary is Haka Public Radio New Year's Eve Show Episode 6.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by An Honest Host.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15.
That's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at An Honest Host.com.
The interesting plot I don't know.
These boards have gotten so cheap that you kind of even wonder what the value of them even
is.
I mean, you know, you get Raspberry Pi Zero for $5.
How many boards can you buy that are under, you know, $10 or $20?
Oh, oh yeah, oh yeah, that's true.
That's sort of the thing now to get, well, I'll still start with the Raspberry Pi.
I guess there wasn't the only thing.
And then I assumed this pocket, this chip that I was talking about earlier, that sort of goes under this as well
and I suppose the Pi 64 as well.
And the onion board that we mentioned earlier, there's various boards that are...
What do they call?
Small SBCs?
What do I get?
There's a term for them.
But yeah, there's all these various boards that are cheap and small.
I can check it out here.
I've been running.
Plug up and play with.
It's been sitting up here for quite a while.
I haven't taken it out of its box.
Well, you haven't actually got it out of the box, you know, pocket chip.
Yeah, I've got a pocket chip over here and I...
Well, it's just a little chip.
A little $9 computer.
Yeah, the chip was just a small, mind-dollar computer, whatever.
And then the pocket chip was like a case thing, and also with the software being starting different.
It's on there by default.
It's kind of like the little, that top.
That current laptop.
Yeah, it's like a small...
It must be a small Debian arm device, basically.
With their own little keyboard and their own screen.
And there's two things here.
So the pocket chip has the casing and the keyboard and the screen.
And then the chip...
And the chip is inside the pocket chip as well.
But then you have this chip separately as well.
Yeah, if it happens, just the chip.
The chip was like $9 or whatever.
And then the pocket chip was a bit more.
Yeah, it's a little...
Like a little handheld, little gaming thing.
I'm not sure about gaming quite all night, but I guess...
There's still that much on the VH to build the kind of games on there.
I think it can run all the...
Pretty much every program that's gone on-arm to debut and it's built around that as far as I know.
But you can buy them on their website now as well.
I guess with 3D printers, the little cases and stuff will probably start coming out with all sorts of things.
That you can do.
Although touch screen on the pocket chip is a bit different from what is different from your standard sort of mobile phone tablet touch screen.
But even so, it's reasonable for it to be a bit like a cheaper touch screen.
Some sort of different version, I think.
I'll tell you what they need to do.
They used to have this thing called the Palm TX.
It was a little device with a...
I'm gonna say it had probably 800 by 600 or better.
Very bright, backlit display.
It was very thin.
The touch screen on it.
Very, very thin.
It had a little...
Very, very small controller on the back of it.
It was a nice unit.
And we had this for a while here.
And I bought a bunch of replacement screens.
I think we were going to have...
It's called Palm TX.
It was just a little handheld computer, very nice display, full color touch screen.
And I bought replacement screens with the digitizer and the whole nine yards.
I'm gonna say I paid less than $10 per screen.
I think I bought, I don't know, 10 or 20 of them.
They're in a box in the garage somewhere.
And if I could figure out a way to hook that up to one of these little armboards.
Man, that would be cool because they're just like a phone display that you have today.
I mean, you know, a small tablet or phone.
But they're really cheap.
I think you can probably still buy them probably inexpensive like that with a full digitizer and everything.
I just don't know how you would interface the two.
They were quite nice.
They were.
They are quite nice.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know about that one.
But yes, some of the old tech is still good as well.
But we've got so much now in general.
It's just, you know,
but I do think that crowdfunding is the place to look at for more exciting tech.
Because there's a lot of vibe every now and again,
you get some sort of interesting thing that's going to, let's try and get crowdfunded.
And I think that I think that when I get to probably buy it from China,
directly or Hong Kong or something like that.
But I think, yeah, I think retail, what you, you know,
we can spend in the normal shop or store.
You would say there is not really that exciting in general or usually not.
It's going online and find something that's more interesting on crowdfunding or something like that these days.
I see so many of these little oderoid touch screens and stuff.
And they sell for quite a bit of money.
I wonder why?
Yeah.
I'm going to try to copy a link over.
Hey, let me just a second, because I'm a surf on one computer
and I'm talking on a computer that's disjointed.
Officially, this ends in about 10 minutes, I think.
And then if they put the app to show up or not,
all that comes out later or whatever that depends, I think.
It feels good if people are still chatting as well.
Well, anybody else here?
Yeah, just posted a link.
One of these little TX units online sells for $20,
including cover and charger and everything.
Okay, I'll have a little look at that.
Yeah, it's really, these are really beautiful screens with digitizers.
And as I said, I bought a whole pile of them
or just the screen and digitizer brand new,
you know, from China for less than $10 a piece.
And I just don't understand.
They're full VGA.
I'm going to say they're VGA screens with digitizers are very small.
And I don't understand why.
These aren't being used with these little chips or high zeroes
or why somebody's not looking these things together.
I'll tell you what, they are beautiful and they really work well.
Yeah, so it's no palm hardware looking at that link.
That's why it's not being used with the pie zero or your question.
I guess it's because it could be partly because people didn't know it's out there, you know?
Maybe so.
I'll tell you what, the displays are exceptional.
I'm going to say they're just exceptional display and digitizers.
And they come with the digitizer built in and everything.
It's got a little ribbon cable coming out the side.
And that would be spectacular for use with a little armboard, I would think.
As a matter of fact, I would suspect that the little Palm TX is an armboard
or something similar.
I would think it would be very doable.
Anyway, my two cents, the guy is 10 or 20 of his little screens and brand new condition.
So, I mean, it was many Americans on here at the end.
And I'm in England, so, you know, it's really midday here.
But maybe some of the rest of the people have now finally gone to sleep.
Probably so.
I'm just getting started for the day.
Yes, is he wake up early then?
I came in at midnight tonight, a little bit before midnight.
I worked from one day to the next and don't really keep any solid hours.
I just never come into this madming existence of screens.
You don't sleep properly.
Is that what you mean?
Really, I get it.
I try to get eight hours worth of sleep a day.
Sometimes it stretches a little bit further, so my schedule gets kicked around the clock
or so often.
What are you doing today, then?
I, unless I'm called in for an emergency, I am off until tomorrow.
I had my first day off since October the 7th.
Oh, maybe it's the means of, like, a fix or so, but I'm also not right here.
I'm backing up my machines and trying to decommission some of them.
And the rest of them, I'm going to try to nuke and pave and start over, I think.
I'm backing up machines.
I got busy on a project that just took every waking hour for several months.
I got behind and didn't get my machines backed up.
I'm terrified of something bad is going to happen, like, crypto locker, a network version of crypto locker
or something is going to creep inside the house and get everything.
Or something.
The house is going to burn down and I won't have an off-site backup of everything or something.
I'm a big believer in backups.
I mean, backups, I mean, you know, like full image backup of the hard drive.
I mean, you need to sort of slap the back up again.
I'll have to back up my data because I'm going to do a full, at all operating systems, reinstall, and sad thing.
But generally, I think maybe people aren't going to get the backing up, including techies.
You know, it's like, oh, you're going to back up all your data, but who actually goes and does it?
Because I think a lot of people don't back up their data.
But unless you're in business and you're doing service and all that, you know, important stuff, you really got to keep backed up.
Otherwise, I think people aren't going to get it backing up, including techies who will go people, oh, you should back up.
I've got a saying around here is your backups only as good as the last one you tested.
Make sure it works.
We used to back up the machines once a month and then pull the drive out and stick the backup drive in there that when we image from and boot it, make sure that it ran okay.
Yeah.
But don't you find me don't?
And then it closes the official new year so often in two minutes.
It's still current hang, but he's, yeah, it's got two minutes left.
Yeah, sure we'll continue obviously, but the last time zone bigger island and our whole end island, much of the US minor outlining islands.
And the last time zone, we'll be turning into 2017 in more or less one minute from now.
Just like to take this opportunity, even though I wasn't organizing it this year, to thank Hoke McGoo, Kevin Wisher, Taj and John Newsteader for putting stuff together so that we could do this this year.
I just want to quickly add here, it's strange with time zones because you got with a day like same time as well, you got.
And the last time zone has moved in and it's your new year show.
Fifth annual new year show is officially over.
Thank you.
30 seconds early.
Oh, 30.
Yeah, 30 seconds early.
25.
20.
19.
18.
Tom Kitsang is going to kill us.
Happy new year last place.
Happy 9.
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.
Boom.
There you go.
Thanks very much.
Welcome everybody to 2017.
Right.
My last backup just completed.
Well done.
Okay, I'll go post some shows.
Talk to you later.
I will keep the streams up.
Everything's continuing on.
It's just the last time zone went with anyone's interest.
I'm only six hours late.
Well, you can have a, you can keep the episode going for another 20 hours if you want them.
Yeah, my job was to get all the machines backed up for 2016.
I'm only six hours late.
Not bad.
You mean to update them all?
Well, to back them all up, you mean back them all up.
I had two apples that ran behind.
They're back at their original backup that I said didn't, didn't complete.
So I had to start over when I got up this morning.
Joe, I found a black and white.
Twenty ten palm connected link.
See if that might help you a little bit.
Thank you.
Give me a second.
I got to get it from the mumbled machine over to my surfing machine.
Oh, dude, simpler.
BeefDelphi.com.
I like the name of the site.
Beef Delphi.
I'm an old Borland guy.
Have you ever heard of Delphi?
It's knockoff of Turbo Pascal.
You might have more pens to deal with the color, but the black and white one looks pretty complete.
I'm checking it out.
That's pretty cool.
Thank you.
Looks like the last link has a wiring diagram and a bit of firmware.
You're driving from a pick.
Yeah, I'm afraid the display is probably quite a bit different.
The palm pilot.
Apparently, I was very wrong on the resolution.
It's 320 by 480.
TFT LCD.
16 bit.
I'm here.
You chose to hear.
I'm trying to sort through.
Anybody else out there?
Yep.
You just said yes, yeah.
Me.
I'll yield back.
Did you get some sleep then?
Yeah, because I got a long nap.
I was going to go off this, but maybe not now.
There's only three of me and TFT left.
Yeah, the actual thing is over now, but this will come out eventually.
Enough to share with guests.
You're like eight hours behind the figures.
Are you still here now?
Yeah, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.
I said you're eight hours behind, I think.
It's like three days, isn't it?
It's not that.
Oh, it's 7.23 a.m. here.
Okay, five hours behind them, not more.
Let's be on Eastern time.
Which is your time, I think.
Yep.
I think you're both in the same month, T.J. as well.
My name.
You've been up all night, or did you get sleep as well?
I came in a little bit before midnight, my time.
Yeah, yeah, you said earlier.
Yeah, I guess that's figurative.
You know, I know where I met.
About six hours ago, more than six hours ago.
About June, back in.
I don't know how it was.
It's UTC.
So it says 12.24 p.m. UTC.
12.24 p.m. is why I'm there.
Yeah, that's more.
I was going to say 13.24, I guess it's more proper.
12.24, that's right.
I'm not thinking straight.
I've worked since October 7th was my last half day off.
And ever since then, I've been taking snippets of this,
that, the next thing that I've found and don't want to lose,
and been throwing them in directories all over the place,
trying to save stuff as I would work.
And it's time to pay the piper and sort all this stuff
and put it where it's supposed to be.
And I'm going to lost.
You tend to compute that pretty much.
I guess, yeah.
I'm going to get all this software updates and this, that.
Oh, look at this benefit picture I saved from Google and stuff.
You know, just thousands of vials that I just short cut.
So save that.
I've just got all this stuff.
I've got to somehow put it where it belongs.
Where it belongs in the trash can.
That's what it should be doing this on my day off.
Should I?
Anyway, for about three months, I've been taking just stuff
and throwing it in directories, just trying to save it back
because it's valuable, I suppose, or could be valuable.
Looking at all, wondering whether it is valuable.
Well, at least it's the next no windows.
Me?
It's Linux Windows Mac, BSD, Android, OSX, iOS.
A lot of different versions of Linux.
Several versions of Windows.
Pretty much everything there is.
A new, clicky head of lies.
I didn't catch that.
I don't know.
Somebody new pop to clean into the room, so I'm seeing if we get them to chat maybe.
I didn't quite catch it.
I'm hard if hearing or talking to me.
I apologize.
Hello.
Clocky here.
What did you say, Joe?
Is that?
Yeah, they're fluffy.
Were you on, are you a fluffy?
Lurking, yeah.
Oh, you didn't actually come on, are you?
There was a really interesting discussion.
That was around three or four UTC, and I was listening in,
but I didn't really have anything to add.
What was the part about Raspberry Pi's and mobile phones and freedom and practical freedom and all that?
That sounds about right.
The interesting discussion went on when I was sleeping.
Well, I learned something.
I've been looking at the PiN64, and it seems like it's pretty much something you don't want to buy.
So I learned that.
Where were you from actually?
Sweden.
You know, you'll get halips whence.
So you can try to send it also.
Then you couldn't need to have to do your phone as far as you're instantly.
Okay, they're brilliant.
This is actually the after show now, or will be, so it doesn't really matter so much.
People should have had that, man, because I think it'll come up eventually,
but not that soon, probably.
Because everywhere, the last place got into 2017 and half an hour ago, so.
Well, I'm mostly here to hang out, so it doesn't make a big difference for me.
What do you say, just like, PiN64 or something you don't want?
It seems people had a lot of trouble with it.
It's a bit unspecific, but I think people were talking about the graphics hardware
that it's not really up to speed compared to what's in the Raspberry Pi 3.
And then someone said it using it, like, not for benchmarks, but for practical use.
It seemed a bit laggy compared to something like the old droid.
I'm not sure.
I totally agree with that.
I have two.
One of them's tiny bit flaky.
I think it's just a power connector.
In general, I'm very pleased with it.
I have a lot of different armboards to compare it against.
I find it to be a pretty decent board.
The PiN64, I mean, yeah, I just had a few discussions about that.
I think I'll point in at buying those laptops.
I mean, it's so cheap.
But I think in reality that, yeah, it's going to be also slightly limiting compared to X86.
Because it's, you know, so it's going to run completely the same amount of programs.
But other than that, I guess it's like it's advertised.
So cheap computer, isn't it?
Looks like the PiN64 is really the best 64-bit arm performance per buck you can get is my impression.
If you want a complete system on chip.
I don't disagree with that.
I like the fact that you can get them with the extra RAM that comes in really handy.
I absolutely appreciate that it's available in two gigabits of RAM, which is a problem with the Raspberry Pi 3.
It makes a big difference.
The choice of OS is quite complete.
I want to say, I haven't tried them all out either.
But it seems a little laggy.
I think I'm just going to take time for developers to climb on board.
More people support the board.
Why were you up at four or five AM then or six AM even in Sweden?
You said the infrastructure was bad then.
So you must have been awake in the night listening to that then.
Plucky.
Why was that?
Well, my aim was to enjoy New Year's Eve and the midnight's countdown and all that with my relatives.
And then when they went to bed, I was planning to come on the channel.
But it was a bit quiet around one UTC.
And also my little boy was still pretty active at the time.
So it took a while to get him to bed.
And when he was finally in bed, he was already like three UTC and then I figured,
okay, he's sleeping and I'm not, I'm going on the channel and then he turned out.
There were a couple of, I guess mostly Americans, but it was one British voice that I recognized,
but I can't remember who it was right now.
So it turned out to be pretty interesting.
And I stayed out for two hours and then I figured that I didn't have much to add.
So I thought I'd hit a couple of hours to sleep and then get back.
Yeah, a British voice, maybe Festival Web or Golden Scottish voice,
but yeah, it's been mostly Americans this year, which, as you've asked about,
it's, you know, it's HPR and that, but which is slightly,
it's slightly disappointing in a way because it's, you know,
it's nice to have people more from a few more from different countries as well.
That's why I think anyway.
So about the thing that's due here,
poor foreign Australia men,
bad E, Australia, Edu, foreign.
Did you hear what I said?
Sorry, my boy just came running.
I have to get out for a short while.
Yeah, just quickly, you might miss what I said, but I guess quickly,
where did I say it's nice that it was,
it's good that there's more people who went from America on as well
and it would be nice to throw us some more.
Unless then Swedish.
Where in Sweden, where are you from?
Not too far from Stockholm, about two hours train from Stockholm.
Two hours from Stockholm, okay.
Yeah, so I'm from the central parts of,
I grew up on the border between West Malam and Alakalia
and then I've been studying and in shopping for several years.
I've been living in Germany for a while and in Hong Kong.
My, my other half of my family is from Hong Kong
and we're moving back there soon.
I don't know.
Lynn, check me so much, but not check me definitely
because my mum was from there.
Oh, okay.
Thank you.
And where's the other half of your heritage from?
Is that from the US?
No, from England.
I've lived in England most of my life, so far.
That was actually born in Sweden, which is,
which is useful actually,
because it means that,
you know, I can get a Swedish passport if I want one.
That means I could be in the EU still.
My passport.
If I look all that, I guess.
Oh, yeah, that's a good escape hatch at this point in history.
Yeah.
Yeah, my little boy, he has a Chinese and a Swedish citizenship.
So he's really prepared for whatever's going to happen to the world.
Oh, you've got, oh, you're half Chinese,
that's what I was going to say.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's interesting.
But yeah, it's true.
China may take off a bit more because it's,
well, it's big anyway, but, you know,
it's about markets and economies and companies and money.
So, yeah, it may become a bit more all over the world in that sense.
Plus all the tech is made in China anyway.
That's just one aspect.
Yeah.
Almost tech.
Most tech is.
I think if you're able to be a bridge between the Western world,
where a lot of things are still being designed and sold,
and China where the stuff is being produced,
then you have a pretty important role to play.
And even as development is moving more and more to China,
then you're still at the interface where a lot of stuff is happening.
Yeah.
So, I ordered one of the EOMA 68 devices,
and I've been following that guy's blog,
and he's moving back and forth between Hong Kong and Zhuhai
and some other places.
And if that were my boy, he wouldn't have any such issues.
He could just come and go,
I don't know.
EOMA 68,
he's reusing the PCM CIA form factor
to make CPU cards that you can then plug into
as an upgradable part of a laptop or a mini desktop
or stuff like that.
Yeah, I haven't had that one,
but that sounds interesting.
Yeah, I'll put the link in the show notes.
It's a pretty cool project.
So, are you the Swedish one, or was it the other way around?
Sorry.
I've wasted your boy's half Chinese.
That's what he said.
So, I guess he'll,
someone's Chinese then.
Yeah, yeah, I'm the Swedish half.
We've got snow where you are.
There's remains of snow.
That's the one, that's one particularly annoying
about England is that, I mean, it gets cold.
Okay, it can be above zero,
but it does go below zero at times.
But, you know, it gets cold or chilly.
But, it barely, barely snowed.
So, it's like, you know, getting cold for what?
Because it's so rare that it snows,
and then it snows, the country gets a little bit of a mess anyway.
But, snow is nice, because it changes stuff.
It makes it look nice, you know what I mean?
In the dark of winter, snow definitely helps lighten up things.
We had snow even in Linchoping already in November.
And it's a, wow, this is great.
We're going to have a wide Christmas.
And then the next week,
it all just melted away.
But, we got one day of skiing out of it.
And then, snow came back two weeks before Christmas.
And then, most of it melted away a week before Christmas.
And we had a green Christmas.
Part from some patches of snow that still remain.
But, it's been above zero for several days.
I see, living in Linchoping, is that what you said?
Yeah, that's where I live.
And now I'm visiting my parents a bit further up north.
It's three hours north of Linchoping.
Right, right.
Yeah, one of my mom's brothers, he lives in Linchoping.
And her friend is near there as well.
It's a good town to be.
When we moved back from Hong Kong last time,
we figured that, wow, after living in the big city,
we couldn't bear living anywhere except Stockholm.
But, as it turns out, if you live in the Stockholm suburb
and you work in the Stockholm suburb,
you seldom have time to go downtown anyway.
And, downtown Linchoping is better than downtown suburb.
So, Linchoping has been pretty great.
Yeah, Joey, you're still about old, by the way.
I am.
Well, I was going to say to you,
or something like that.
I seem to speak English,
but we're a bit boring, isn't it?
I can speak Swedish as well.
But, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
Like languages are a bit fun, or can be.
Native English is my native language.
Yeah.
Okay, maybe I should start to clacky, actually.
You think it's good that you can speak, or similar to him.
You think it's good that you can speak Swedish quite well, obviously.
And then English as well, quite well.
And maybe there's another language that you know as well, Chinese or something, I don't know.
I'm working on my Chinese.
And one of our many reasons for going back to Hong Kong is to
let our boy learn proper Chinese as well.
He lived there his first year,
and then we've been in Sweden for three years.
So, now he speaks Swedish fluently,
and he speaks like 10 words or Cantonese.
So, it's going to be good for him to catch up on that.
I think it's definitely an advantage to have at least two mother tongues,
which I don't, but he will.
I think it gives you a good opportunity,
and the mental flexibility to learn many more languages further on.
Yeah, I think I agree with that.
Although it depends a bit on the languages,
but yeah, you've got Swedish.
He's going to learn English, obviously.
And then he would have Chinese.
So, yeah, we've put much of language, but I guess.
Yeah, two really different languages like that.
I mean, I speak Swedish German and English,
and that's, in a very wide sense,
they're largely the same language.
They're pretty close within the Germanic language family.
And learning Chinese is definitely going to open up new parts of your brain
that you won't open up by just learning several Germanic languages.
Yeah, well, yeah.
I mean, the letters are, you know, the same letters,
the B, C, D, all that, you know,
is the same across English, German, and Swedish,
and all those languages.
Although there's a free, you know, there's a free extra.
There's at the very end of the Swedish alphabet,
which is found in German as well, but not in English.
But I don't know, you know, it's very similar for writing.
And then speaking is probably a lot more similarities.
If you compare that to say Chinese,
which is what you're saying as well.
So if you have completely different languages,
and you know types of languages,
and you know about two of those,
and yeah, you should be able to learn pretty much any other language
easier with the thought as well.
Well, the writing is one thing,
but I think the internal structure of the language
is what really makes you think differently in some ways.
And at least it helps you not block off your mind
in new ways of expressing things.
Chinese languages are very different
from any Indo-European languages, really,
in how sentences are built up,
and what kind of things the language considers important
to distinguish, and what kinds of things to group together.
I think that's what creates challenges.
I've learned a bit of Japanese before,
and I've been learning Chinese,
and it's really some things that really come naturally to you
as a European speaker that seems really important
at the core of the languages.
Simply don't exist in some Asian languages,
because especially Chinese,
because it has barely any grammar
in the same sense that Indo-European languages do.
Yeah, and then the text,
I mean, that has a different role.
It's like images or something.
There was a girl who,
public speaking thing,
but she was doing her basic Chinese lesson speech.
Yeah, it's totally different compared to our
little German, Swedish and English in that sense.
Well, the writing is definitely,
I mean, it's something completely different,
but I think that's just something you have to learn.
And I think it does less to your brain
than the differences in language structure.
Conceivably, you could just take Chinese characters
and write Swedish with it.
I mean, that's basically what the Japanese did.
The Japanese language has no original connection to Chinese,
but they just imported the characters
and made them their own and made it work with Japanese.
And you could do that with Swedish as well.
So I think the characters are culturally very important
to the Chinese,
but they're not what makes the language,
language distinguish itself from
in the European languages.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, my mum was always a bit annoyed
that she never ever,
because her mum was actually finished
and then her dad was Swedish,
so she's always annoyed that
she never got taught finished by her mother.
And I mean, I never got taught.
I mean, I never got taught finished either,
but I think that apparently finished
is a very complicated language to learn
when you haven't, you know,
when you let no finish.
Oh, yeah.
Finish is a good case in point
that they still use Latin characters,
but I think finish is probably,
I don't know finish,
but from what I gather,
it's probably also a language
that does interesting things to your brain.
If you're shaped in the Germanic mold
and then you have to learn finish,
it's a completely different way
of building a language in some senses.
Yeah.
Do you think, well, obviously,
you think languages are a good thing
and narrowing more than mum
that we were just discussing?
But I think things,
especially from people from England,
not England,
is it not the whole UK,
because Wales has got Welsh,
Wales has got Welsh as well a bit
in Scotland, there's whatever.
But English people,
I think there's a nasties from a lot,
or even younger people,
that they think we need to know
another language as such,
because pretty much everybody speaks English anyway,
but at least around in Europe
and America and all that.
But the exception could be South America.
But you think that's kind of wrong
to have that attitude
that other languages don't really matter,
whether you're English,
or do you think that, like,
yeah, you should be learning another language
that's German or French or Spanish
or whatever it's going to be at school.
It's difficult to say really,
I mean, from a practical view point,
it really makes sense to look at,
I mean, everything
that you invest energy and time
into learning is
you're deprioritising other things.
So,
for me, having learned more languages,
that has really made a lot of sense to me.
But I could see that,
if you already have English,
and you can access most of the world with that,
I could see how
it would be difficult to motivate
learning more languages.
And I mean, everyone wants to be a hipster
and say, oh, in Europe, everyone knows all these languages
and they're really cool for it.
And I think it's good for you,
and it's good for your
ways of thinking.
But I don't think it's like
it's a completely
necessary thing that you're
losing out on part of the world
if you don't learn more languages.
I don't know where I'm going with this.
I think that
I think it's really cool to learn more languages
and I think it's good for you,
but there are many things that are good for you.
There's something else you're not learning.
So as long as you make good use of your time
and you keep learning things,
I think that's the main thing.
Yeah.
But I think that's true as well.
If you start learning languages,
then there's something else that you're
not going to be potentially learning
as well.
And if you should be learning the other thing
instead, or language,
or whatever, it's all depends on you.
But I do think in general that
languages are an interesting thing
and it is good to
it is great that I know more than one language.
I can speak Swedish, you know.
Really as good as English.
Sometimes there's a few words I'm like,
oh, what's that word in Swedish?
But in general, I can speak it really
because I can't write it that well,
which is a bit annoying.
I can read it, but not
majorly well, but
speaking is probably the main aspect anyway.
Or not in Swedish.
I think what's really great about languages is
not only is it a good way of
sort of training and developing
certain parts of your
mental faculties,
but it's also a leverage
to gain access to more knowledge.
You can learn more things
by having access to
material in other language.
Maybe not Swedish, but let's say
Germanic language, and then you learn
Spanish or
Chinese, which gives you access
to huge parts of the world
that you wouldn't otherwise have access to.
That's probably a great feature
of learning a language that
also should not be discounted.
That's a strong argument in favor
of learning more languages.
I agree with that, and I was thinking
from that, like the earlier,
that anything with languages
or that's great, which I know
is everywhere. China is going to be massive.
That's great language to them.
Something like Swedish.
It will even
well, you could say, or something like that.
It's just not...
It's a nice language, but
they're not so relevant in the world
as a world, as a whole, because
you can, you know, Swedish,
she speaks Swedish. If it's Swedish people,
you can get buying Finland with it in Norway
and Denmark, but that's about,
you know, that's about as far
as it goes, really.
Because the rest of the world
won't know Swedish, basically.
Well, again, I think well,
I live near Wales, as
actually is well, but
I think well, she pretty much
stuck to Wales there, and actually
a lot of people in Wales that
even know Welsh, who live there, so
it's not as relevant.
But something like Spanish,
it will hold South America,
which is one of your examples, I think, as well.
So some languages, in that sense,
are worth more than others.
But generally,
or you could say that, but generally,
any language will be good
to learn, because
like, well, you just,
we just talked about that as well.
It makes you think, you'll learn
different things, and you'll...
Yeah.
I think as a...
as a Germanic speaker, you...
you can learn another Germanic
language as a good way to
flex your sort of
language muscles.
You can use that as a starting point
to get used to, okay,
some things are a little bit different
in other languages than in my own language.
And then once you've got there,
you can move on to the next level,
which would be learning Spanish or French.
And if you then jump off from there,
okay, languages can be different
in these different ways.
Then from there, you can go to
the next level, which would be
something like Russian or Arabic
or Chinese, which would make
things really different...
really different.
I think that's...
one argument for learning a language
that is maybe
not super useful in a practical sense,
but it could be a good exercise.
Like learning Dutch or German,
well, German is useful in itself,
of course, because there's
what Dutch or Swedish is still useful,
just, you know, as a first
other language to learn, because
they're not too difficult and not too
different, and you still get this feeling
of, wow, I know a different language,
and I get access to all these people,
and then that could inspire you to learn
something even more different and difficult.
Yeah.
Joe, are you still there now?
I just wonder if he might
disappear as now for real.
Joe is here.
I have a very interesting question.
What do you think?
So, I was trying to say that
I assume that you only speak
English or American English,
you could say, which is slightly different
British English, but that's a different subject.
But you probably only speak English.
I might be wrong, but
you think, you know, would you want to learn
another language potentially,
or would you think it would be good if you knew another language
better, you know, instead of just English?
Well, I grew up in a German family,
spoke quite a bit of German.
I didn't learn very much at all.
I spent some time in
Mexico and South America.
I find it very interesting
that I can go there,
and I pick Spanish up
fluently within a few days,
and I can get on the plane
and forget it all by the time I
get back to the States.
I once hired a guy to come in
just to speak Spanish
just so that I would keep it going.
But I find it interesting how
you see I can get it back
and how quickly I lose it.
I'd like to speak other languages.
I think it'd be very
helpful. I don't travel
nearly as much as I used to,
but I used to go to Europe quite often.
And
we're always very grateful that people seem to speak English.
Yeah, that's what
I was saying earlier though,
because with the point of, you know,
if you're an English speaker, you can go to the main
and you're up, picking your anywhere pretty much.
And any of those countries
and you can get by with English
or mostly,
because pretty much everybody speaks English.
And so there's this,
so if some people have the idea that
if you're from an English-speaking
England or somewhere,
well, you know what, we don't really need to learn
these speaks English anyway.
And you think that's like a good,
like an okay astute to have
or do you think it's more like,
well, you know, what you should maybe actually learn.
At least some of their language, if you're going to be there
for a long time,
or do you think it should be like, oh, well,
doesn't really mess up. Everyone knows English.
No, I think that
it's good to learn other languages.
I had both of our daughters
were fluent in
their four languages.
There still are.
We didn't practice it enough
in our direct house
with my wife and I,
but we both came from families that spoke German.
And my father,
I think he was fluent
almost 30 languages.
I see a great deal of importance to it.
I guess I'm just lazy
or I don't have enough time to play.
I really wish I had more time to play with that.
I'd like to,
I'd like to travel more
and go back over to Europe
and spend more time
and pick up.
Yeah, it was nice as well.
Do you think you want to learn German again?
I would like to concentrate on German.
I talked to my wife Linda
about, you know,
a moment over
and spending
a good deal of time in Germany.
Most of our trips were very short
and very frequent.
She's not opposed to it.
My health prevents me from traveling.
A good deal anymore.
We love traveling.
I think it's just having a lame excuse.
I could sit around and learn,
learn, speak German here.
It's a little bit better
than I do.
There's a lot of German
on the new social network.
So that's a lot of stuff
you will have access to if you know German.
I pick up languages very quickly,
but I spend most of my time
I spend working,
which is sad,
especially at my age
when I'm supposed to be retired.
You know,
computer languages instead.
You know, computer languages instead.
I do computer languages
and I do multiple computer languages
and I pick those up
and move between those very easily.
It's not sharp,
but most of those
can be based on English,
or pretty much any way.
But yes,
what lack of computer languages do you know?
Most of them.
I spend most of my time writing C
and a good deal of Pascal
as well,
but I speak them all
a little bit of Perl.
I like Perl.
I don't really consider PHP
but the language I actually consider
to be quite a bit of basic
in my day,
post script,
the favorite of mine.
It's a very fourth-like language.
I spend most of my time writing C code
a little simpler.
Quite a bit of it too.
Last project
I've been working on
are 1.6 million lines of code.
It just
by 98,000 lines this past three months.
It's a new milestone.
It was 1.5 million lines of code.
PHP is derivative of Perl.
I don't really know about that,
but I guess
if you said it was
or you consider it to be.
It's really got a big
pearl backbone to it.
If you work in PHP
and you've worked in Perl before,
you can really see where
the language came from
or about its beginnings
and its leanings.
It works a little differently
because it's a parsed language.
You've ever worked
with parsing HTML
that contained Perl
that you're basically doing the same thing.
You start to really see the similarities
between it.
I suppose I do.
That's what it looks like to me as a
server parsed pearl.
It's not technically a
Perl derivative,
but it's sort of a
spiritual Perl derivative.
There's a lot of
similarities to it.
Perl's kind of a language on its own.
I mean, it's
C-based, but
if you were hard-pressed to find something
that was like it,
PHP would be it, in my opinion.
Or as Larry Wall said,
PHP redo
all the mistakes we did
in early Perl.
I don't do a lot of
PHP, but I do a little bit.
I have written a lot of Perl.
I was interested to hear
you mentioned PostScript there.
Have you actually been writing
manually writing PostScript
and what did you use that for?
Because most people will consider
PostScript more or less
binary or a compile target.
Well,
I've been writing PostScript since
1985.
We're one of the
original Apple Aceriders.
I was a contributor to
a project that
you may know of
the sideline
contributor to PostScript.
Several other
clone PostScript interpreters.
I've written PostScript
drivers.
I've written PostScript
programs back in the old days.
The Motorola processors
inside the
printers like Apple Aceriders
had more memory
and more powerful
that are desktop computers.
We used to write programs
and download them to the printer
and let it turn on the data
and then return it over the
printer channel.
They're okay,
but that is what the
ﷻ
are.
The hell is the
wished thing,
and from what was used
for the transiting
programs.
All those download
channels are
blocked and
open both in the
physical control,
I don't know,
but to百 of that,
So when people had demo competitions, they would limit the amount of drives that you have available.
Yeah, I used to do quite a bit of stuff with this printer, so I must say, that they had all four megs of RAM back in the day when your PC probably had 640K.
Maybe they had more RAM than that, but the chip was more powerful and you could download programs to it and let it turn.
I did a lot of the programming in the early days of computer graphics, a lot of desktop publishing apps worked on the gaming apps.
But yeah, I've written quite a bit of post script and was unofficial contributor to some of the post script code and books that ended up coming out of Adobe system back in the day.
And I still do whatever that's worth.
It would be really cool to hear more about this if there's any articles or if you would like to do an HDR episode about how people have been using printers as basically worker, worker processor for floating calculations.
This is an entirely new area for me. It sounds very interesting.
Yeah, something back in those days.
I might do something on an early gaming engines. I worked on a lot of the early gaming engines.
The guy that did ID software was a neighbor of mine. I worked on the first Disney interactive CDs and the gaming engine that was used by Warner Brothers.
It was actually an engine from seventh level of the top gun engine on a number of the early animated games.
That worked with a lot of cool people in history like how he meant all and.
I was British comedy guys money Python on Cleans and other people.
Wow, that's cool.
I had to read the amount of my office one time.
Funny story. I walked into my office. The place was basically a bunch of mostly divorce guys that lived there and coded at the office.
It's so bad they had hammocks in the office to sleep by.
Anyway, I was married and had a family and let me go home.
But you know, I have to come into the office now and then walked in there.
One time I walked in there, there was a guy sitting there with the guitar of my chair.
Well, so you're going to have to leave.
It's back of the language with you. She usually says, okay.
That's guitar.
Who are you?
Turned out to be David Gilmore, Pink Floyd.
And money Python guys, they showed up one time.
These are not the guys you want to come in and say, you know, hey, guys, you've got to leave.
I've got to go to work because they'll start cutting up and you won't get them out of your office.
All right, it's been great to drop by. I have some away from keyword concerns knocking at my shoulder.
I'll maybe back later.
But for the moment, I have to leave.
Okay, they will think that part of the day, or they can say commercial part of the day, or enter a bit in time.
I'm going to do it.
Oh, it's cool.
Yeah, he's going always gone.
Oh, my raining.
What's that?
Oh, so my it's really raining.
I think it was here earlier, but now it's okay.
Harding to flood everywhere here.
Morning, folks.
Good morning.
You just.
Who was that?
That's me.
Fleab.
Are you right?
Okay.
I didn't see the light up.
Oh, I get that a lot.
Oh, you.
No, no, I was looking away from the laptop screen.
As he said, morning, so I was like, it was like, oh, okay, you're right.
Good to get in the way.
We're trying to do it.
I've possessed your computer gag for about 10 seconds, maybe.
Were you on the actual show where you have?
Because it's over now, really.
But they'll put this up.
Probably went anyway after show.
Yeah, I was I wasn't in out throughout the day.
But yeah, I saw that it ended, but they're afraid I put my head and see if people were
still yammering about.
Hi.
We need to get more people on from somehow from elsewhere.
I mean, there's a lot of Americans on H3O, isn't there?
Mostly.
We're going to feel more people from other countries as well in general, I think, because
it will be a space more interesting.
Right next time people won't, there seems to come on all who have been on before from
Britain and whatever place.
Yeah, well, I think there are a number of people with with American
English accents too, who are, you know, the kind of their folks who have
also expats.
So they are living in other places, but they're not from those other places.
But yeah, I think I think it's what a 50-50 shot 50% is focused on the
states and then 50% is from everywhere else.
Yeah, it's probably about probably more for the states actually.
So what you're saying is I don't oh, Kenneth show.
I don't know, do you?
Well, I mean, obviously I should probably record a show for HPR because I haven't
been in the time that I've been listening to HPR.
I guess I've been listening to HPR for about two years and I'm in a show deficit.
I probably owe at least one or two.
But yeah, but then again, if we have, if you have an overabundance of folks from the
states who are producing shows and maybe I should just keep my mouth shut.
Right.
I'm rationalized by laziness here.
Ken might be listening to this in the future.
So Ken would probably say that you still am a show for some reason or the other.
I'm almost out for two.
Yeah, I've actually got, I have two in mind.
I just haven't recorded them.
I only recently got my show back up on the off of off of hiatus after about a
year and a half.
So I've been.
You got the open source show, right?
Yeah, the open open source creative.
I listened to a couple episodes the other day.
Well, thank you.
You're welcome.
I enjoyed it.
Of course, I've been on vacation for two weeks.
So I haven't put, I haven't put any shows up for that.
Just that prove that I was listening and I was listening.
I really was listening.
You did a bit about prioritizing what you should be listening to, didn't you?
It's true.
And I, I, I'm going to have to definitely step on that one because since I haven't been
commuting to work for the last two weeks, I have a, I have a, an inventory of
podcasts that I have to listen to.
So I just straightened that one out.
Now don't get your feelings hurt because I'm telling you I'm listening.
I was listening.
I really was.
You can tell, right?
I just proved I was listening to your show, right?
Oh, yeah.
Now I'm talking about the 50 or so subscriptions that I have to listen to that I've
been behind on.
We see that was my problem.
I had all these shows.
I've got to listen to this.
I've got to listen to this.
I've got to listen to this.
And I've got this new podcast of the open source show and I'm listening to that.
And he said something about prioritizing what you listen to.
You got to prioritize it.
And I said, hell, I've got to push stop and go listen to a different podcast.
And that's what I did.
Don't get your feelings hurt on that.
But I took your advice.
And I'm pushing to stop on your own podcast.
Hey, no, that's I figure as far as I can figure that's that's actual actionable work there.
I inspired something to happen.
I'm I'm counting as success success.
Good, good.
Because this is really what it was meant to be.
I mean, I was I stopped.
I was in the middle of coding.
I mean, I was working hard yet.
No idea how hard I was.
And I was listening to podcast and you said that.
I stopped everything and I looked down at my little phone sitting there playing.
And I said, he's right.
And I said, move on to the next one.
Awesome.
But I will listen to your next one.
I promise I'll probably go back and listen to some other ones.
Because in the meantime, I've cleared most of my queue.
And now I have time to listen.
So you did me a great favor.
I want you to know that.
Glad I got help with that.
Yeah, I've got two two things.
I want to record for HPR that that I think would be worth worth putting out there that aren't really necessarily in the wheelhouse of of my show.
So I just have to sit down and get those recorded and edited.
I have to to I am.
I owe Kim to and and what was really great was that I've got a rebuttal to show that somebody did that mentioned something.
I mentioned me in two podcasts that they did to the HPR shows and they misquoted me.
Definitely put that one up then.
I got a rebuttal.
Oh, speaking of of you and other shows from from Linux look cast.
I've been looking a little bit into your your mouse driver thing you were talking about.
And I think unfortunately the way it works at least from from the X 11 setup.
That the the feature you're particularly interested in might be on the candle on the application side.
I don't know if it's handled on the driver side.
What did you say it's anywhere on the application side.
So for instance, I have I've been playing with that surface pro three for.
For for for a little bit while for a little while and running Linux on that and having a great time with it by the way.
And you posted something on G plus about it, didn't you?
Yeah, yeah, I saw that.
And so in fact, I'm right.
If you give me half a second when you catch up with you because I am sorting through all my files today.
And one of the things that I'm sorting through is bad.
Well, the what it what it comes down to is on on the touch screen at least when I'm and actually the fingers the two fingers scroll the multi touch scrolling.
I can get a inertial behavior in Firefox because I think Firefox supports that.
And I can get it I think in Chromium.
But in say G them or a terminal.
There's there's no there's no support in the application for that behavior.
So I'm I'm hesitant to say that that it would be fixed in the driver.
Oh, I can tell you something about this, but you're going to have to allow me to grab a cup of coffee real fast.
Sure. Sure.
I have to because I have to check to make sure the coffee pot didn't explode and leave a mess.
It'll take me about one minute and I'll be back.
I have the information right in front of me.
Right on.
In regards to the cinematic.
It's a touch pad driver and I'm also working on the input and replaced under arch.
I'm going to go check the coffee pot real fast right back.
Everybody still there.
Yep.
Okay, I know a little bit about this and you're correct that in Todd the application.
They can support things like coasting and mouse gestures.
And in fact, application can build that into the application without any concern as to the touch pad driver itself.
As long as the touch pad actually works, the application might be able to get to some of that stuff.
I know that because I've written an application that did some coasting work before in its display, but it's also something that could be handled at the driver level.
Where you could support gestures and gesturing.
Hold on, let me back up on that.
Not so much the gesturing, but the coasting that I'm after.
And there's settings in the cement.
I can't say it's masked.
Synaptics.
Oh, thank you so much.
I have that one more time.
Synaptics.
Synaptics.
Which by the way, that driver that they call the cement driver is not actually from them.
They had a Linux driver that fully supported coasting and all that many years ago.
And they pulled it and they promised that they were going to put out the source code for it and never did.
Now that package has been deprecated in arch and now has moved on to the input playing with it.
Right.
That's what disconnected that back.
Anyway, if anybody who's listening to this right now, why don't you come on for real and join us?
They have 86 inputs.
They're not supported.
These live inputs.
Sorry.
I didn't catch your question.
I'm deaf.
You're going to have to bear with me, please.
Sub-sub-sub was just...
Oh, there's more subs there.
Sub-sub-sub-sub-sub.
Was was suggesting that other people who are listening only on the stream maybe come on and and play with us.
Oh, good.
Anyway, live input is now taken over where the name of the mouse driver that nobody seems to pronounce except me has been deprecated.
But some of this, the gestures have to be supported from the application side.
The coasting, and that's all I care about.
I don't care about the gestures.
The coasting, that can be handled at the driver level.
Because it's religious to an acceleration, then you take your finger off and the cursor would continue and decay.
This was stopped.
Yeah.
Just one of the things I noticed, it was happening on some applications.
It wasn't happening on others.
And I was concerned that it was something that couldn't be a signal from the driver.
It's something that some applications may build in.
And of course, if I end up enabling that somehow in the driver, and it's supposed to be in it,
they're supposed to be a setting through the burn end to the drivers.
The semantic input and the input live both have a settings that are supposed to support coasting.
But I've never been able to get it to work.
So I don't know.
Now an application can build that in.
They can say, hey, I'm detecting the mouse and it's moving this much.
And I think that they've let go and they've flown it to the left.
And I'm going to continue on and just kind of slowly just decay the acceleration.
That's something that you can build that in and into an application.
And of course, if you do have an application that does that and that does it in the driver,
you may get a dual effect out of it.
It may be an unwanted.
Yeah, I've seen from what I can tell, at least from Firefox.
It looks like it only activates it when you're using multi touch, like for a screen.
But if you're doing it with a mouse scroll, then you then it doesn't use any inertia.
Hmm.
I am way interested in solving this.
Interestingly, I have heard at least a half dozen podcasts in the past 10 days mention sucky Linux touchpad drivers.
And talk about I've heard it on Jupiter broads and for Jupiter broadcasting.
I've heard it on at least six different podcasts in the past 10 days.
People talking about how crappy it is and the right it does.
And if you've talked to a guy like me, who lives on the laptop, mostly plugged,
mostly I lived plugged into a mouse in a docking station.
But you know, I live on a laptop.
It's very frustrating.
And then you talk to somebody like my wife who, she can look at her touch pad and the static electricity from her hair or something throws it off.
And it just does crazy.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I'm typically I'm not really big on touch pads.
It's usually a trying to find what is to turn them off.
You know, if you have a really, really good touch pad driver that does a really good job, you'll swear by them.
And wonderful things when I work well.
But you know, my big complaint is the only one that I've ever found that works well as a really old driver that I've got for Windows.
And man, it's beautiful.
And it's my main reason for not switching over to Linux is a main host OS.
I hate Windows.
I think it's only suitable to run a VM.
I want on Linux so bad I'm going to rewrite the reckon driver if I have to.
And I have not given up just because it takes me forever to get anything done.
Don't give up on me.
I mean, I come sitting here at the driver's sourcing front of me.
I've got notes notes that I got a whole directory going on this thing.
And I've got a machine right to my right that I've been blowing different distros on checking out the settings and what not on how we're going to pull this off.
And it's going to get done.
It's just not a full-time effort.
Ever so often I get a chance to look up and play with it.
It's going to happen.
It's not going to happen.
I have a handful of projects that are in that same category.
So I get it.
My big problem right now.
I did it for the past four days.
All I've been doing is just sorting through things trying to get my systems backed up and everything so that I can do a massive new can pay.
But to give you a, you've heard the story that I haven't had a day off since October the seventh or Olaf basically, you know.
Yeah, been working on this project with 1.6 million lawns of code.
I added 98,000 new lines to it.
And in the meantime, I've been taking every little note and project and everything that I've got.
I've just been throwing them into directories to save stuff back.
And I've got little projects that are half baked and stuff that just go on for miles.
Is this stuff safe?
The day I'm sorting that out, and then I'm going to get on with why.
It's going to happen.
I promise.
And I'm going to get the HPR episode recorded too.
I promise.
Just don't think.
Makes me forever.
And then I've got people that helped me along.
Like this one guy who recorded a podcast.
He helped me.
I needed to prioritize what I was listening to.
And I would get everything done.
And he was right.
My good deed for 2016 was done then.
That was really helpful.
No, I mean, what you did was you set me off.
I don't only push stopped on your podcast and went on and started listening to some of the others.
But I quickly started pushing stop on some of those and prioritizing those.
I blew out a queue that was 10 miles long and that's in flat.
And I got what I needed to listen to.
I got to listen to.
I want to thank you for that.
Thank you.
Even though you were partially affected in my priorization.
Now if I can just prioritize all these half-baked projects I've got going on.
With some of them were pretty good.
I've got three different flavors of a font program that denominates the fonts on your system.
Displaced them in 3G.
I've got four different versions of a Google search and alternative search for Google.
You're not going to say what?
No, I won't say that because that's you know.
Have you seen our alternative search for Google?
Probably not.
Oh, you're missing something.
If you may or may not know the Google search for Google communities isn't that great.
That's true.
I haven't been.
I tend to only use Google search when I have to.
I tend to use other engines.
May I propose you take a look at something?
Sure.
Try search dot code for sale dot com.
That's the number four sale.
And then the first entry is a single board computer.
Virtual private server show.
Yep, that's it.
Look on that.
You will see the G plus non-google community search.
Yep.
I'm looking at it now.
I'm sorry.
Yep, looking at it now.
Write out.
It's your true chat version.
Hey, you're playing big bug bunny on a pocket chip.
I'm sorry.
Is it hey, you're playing big bug bunny on a pocket chip?
Yeah.
Now, this is our non-google community search.
Yeah.
It was last indexed in September.
Pardon me on that.
I need to do that.
We can also display this, but it's not being shown as you can display this in like the Google
HTML5 floating a little article format.
It looks just like you're on Google, but you're not.
And it also drills down to the likely content you ever clicked on a link in Google.
And it takes you to this guy's photos instead or you go there and then here and there
and trying to get to the article and then you finally get there.
Nice.
This figures it out.
I don't know if you see that likely content link.
Yep.
Yep.
And it's also got a command line version.
It's fully documented.
Blah blah blah blah.
A lot of options.
Lots and lots of options.
It's kind of ugly and kind of backwards, you know, old school.
But I'm getting there.
I think it's cute.
There's a need.
That's all it needs to be.
It was running on the normal board.
But anyway, now I'm trying to I've got four different versions of this project.
I'm trying to figure out where I should stash all of it.
Well, I've got a project called Thing Test.
I don't have any clue as to what it does, but I know it's important enough.
I put it in the directory to save it for something.
I have no idea what it does.
Thing Test.
Huh.
I'm going to I'm going to pause it a guess and say that it tests a thing.
You know what it does?
It's a Google scraper.
All right.
It's a Google community scraper.
Oh, what did I call a Thing Test?
A lot of saved it.
What Linux destroys your favorite?
Favorite?
Hard to tell.
I am and have been an arts user for quite some time though.
It tends to be my go-to for most situations.
I've been looking at this antigrow slightly as a arch derivative.
Yeah, I haven't played with any of the derivatives.
Mostly because once I have arch set up, I don't really need to change it.
It's updating it because it's rolling at least.
But the actual arch install process for me at least isn't all that tedious enough that I would have a huge need for.
The antigrow string and Jero.
I've been looking at just basically what they're throwing on top as desktops and how their mouse interactions work.
Well, that's the other part of it.
My interface of choices or my Uno desktop environment, if you will, of choice is enlightenment, which they will.
I mean, you can get them on those other other setups, but it's not going to tell you.
I mean, if they're not going to tell you to it, then I might as well just run regular arch.
What's the latest one?
Last time I looked at enlightenment was the E17.
Is that right?
Yeah.
I think they're up to 21 at this point.
Really?
I know Linda loves it.
Yeah, I'd like to try 21.
Yeah.
Since I'm running it in arch, I don't keep as close attention to version numbers as perhaps I should.
Look at that.
I've been concentrating on gnome mainly.
I'd prefer to name them all, but why do you still look at why do you use enlightenment as your preferred interface?
Because I mean, every time I tried that E17, you know, it's, yeah, it's flashy.
It's maybe more lightweight in a way, but it just seems to sort of be a bit more flashy and a bit more fixed.
Why is that your default will be preferred?
Well, it's always been very, very low on resource usage and from a workflow standpoint, the hotkey setup for it.
And I've basically got my configuration for it dialed in the way kind of exactly the way I like it.
And if they change it, then I'll have problems.
But I've used a number of the other other ones that they've gotten to the point where I can get a similar setup to what I get in enlightenment.
But at that point, I mean, I might as well just use enlightenment.
So I mean, I've been using some version of enlightenment since E17 was in perpetual beta for about two or three or more years.
And I was using it well into that and I was using E16 prior to that.
And the workflow is is this workflow is probably not the best word, but the the user experience user interface for E17 really suits me.
Desktop menus I can turn I can remove.
I don't have any desktop icons. I don't have a taskbar.
I just have a few handful of things that are pertaining to the to the to the desktop.
I mean, if it weren't for enlightenment, I probably would be using a tiling manager.
Ooh.
That's another one.
A lot of people are like, oh, tiling.
When they manage it, it's so good.
But why do people think that I can't speak for other people, but for the people I've known who've used them.
A lot of it has been mostly there.
They don't want to think about desktop management or workspaces or anything like that.
They just they want it to be tiled out and have the desktop get out of their way.
The window manager, whatever, just just sort of get out of the way.
And a lot of them are primarily command line interface kind of people.
So they'll just have, you know, they run X 11 specifically so they can run 20 to 30 terms.
You think most of them are doing command line stuff versus gooey stuff?
A lot of them are.
I mean, me, I'd be doing more on the graphics side of things.
The appeal for it for me specifically would be that, yeah, it gets out of my way.
If I want to have a floating window, I can have a floating window.
But otherwise, it'll, you know, just toss it in the as a tile.
And it appeals to me as well.
Since since one of the main programs I use is Blender.
And essentially, it's that's that's a tiling interface in itself.
Yeah, yeah, you're the Blender guy.
You do 3D rendering stuff.
Yes.
I need to talk to you offline about a project.
I'm not an artist at all.
I didn't know good at that at all.
And that's proven fact.
And howie Mandel and I had a big falling out because I was a graphics coder.
I write graphics engines.
They put me to work.
Sinking eyes and little mouths and stuff to ski stinky the skunk and his
howie Mandel and tune land DVD.
Yep.
Game.
Yeah, I was the one who did that little mouse.
I wrote the graphics engine too.
Or I helped write the graphics engine for that.
I can't do artistic work at all.
But I've got a project I need somebody to do something like that.
Right on.
If I can't do it, I can point you in the right direction.
But that'd be great because I need some direction on that.
Something somebody.
I think that's quite common actually.
If you know, if you're a coder or program or something like that,
then you probably not see much of graphics artists and all that.
In general, people, I mean, if you look at actually,
if you look at websites made by programmers,
they tend to be quite basic probably for that reason.
But he actually uses blender.
That's interesting because obviously blender is there.
People know about it.
It's known as a very popular open source,
when freely modeling program and all that.
But then it's got a high learning care, doesn't it?
So I've had it blender installed a few times.
Personally, just to have a look, can you sort of think,
how would you actually use this program?
Because it just seems so complicated.
But yeah, it's, I tend to,
I've been referring to it lately as the Swiss Army chainsaw.
Of graphic applications.
And it's very true.
The thing about it is that it's,
there is a relatively high learning curve.
But once you sort of wrap your brain away around how it thinks,
then there's a fair amount of internal consistency.
There's a few hiccups and they're trying to get that
with the 2.8 overhaul.
But in the general sense,
once you sort of understand the design paradigms
that are internal to it,
picking up, say, the 3D modeling side,
once you understand how 3D modeling works,
then a lot of those same UI paradigms
will apply in anything animation curves, for instance.
Yeah, I guess so.
I'm not really a 3D video animator.
But I guess I've heard you say,
have you used a Simfig though,
as well saying that you can have a Simfig surely.
That's what 2D, not 3D, but still.
Yeah, I've used Simfig a little bit.
One of my goals for the year is actually to play a bit more
with a number of the different animation tools,
including Simfig.
I want to play more with Creators Animation Timeline
that they've added to it.
And I have open tunes compiled,
and I want to play with that as well.
So I've messed around with those a little bit,
but not to the degree that I know Blinder at this point.
I get really lost in Blinder.
Yeah, that I get that in.
Full disclosure, I wrote Blinder for dummies.
Oh, okay.
Well, thank you.
I get really lost in Blinder.
I could have written Blinder.
I'd have no problems writing Blinder,
but using it, I'm lost.
Yeah, there's part of the issues that there,
it's, Blinder's not so much one application,
as it is about eight packed into a single interface.
And so some people spend their entire time only doing sculpting,
or only doing painting, or only doing 3D parts of it.
But, you know, then you, then they never,
they never actually touch say that the compositor
or the motion tracker or the video editor that's built into it.
Of course, there's some people who only do the video editing.
Interesting package.
I used it to create some models to bring into it.
You may have heard of it.
Real illusion has some 3D stuff.
Yeah, a real illusion.
Is that, that's an older package too, isn't it?
Yeah, they still put stuff out.
Oh, it shapes me at the moment.
Luckily, I have a menu in front of me.
It's called someplace.
My whole life is just out of control.
Iclean.
Blender icon.
Update it.
Okay.
Well, thank you.
You got something off my desk.
I need stuff off my desk.
I'm staring at directories named Stuff.
Do stuff and do stuff with.
Do stuff with this stuff.
Oh, my God.
If she can tell, I'm organized.
Need to apply some, are you a text file?
And I'll apply some verse control to it.
You know, I used to be the most organized person.
You probably would have ever met in the past couple of three years.
It's all gone to pod.
And I didn't get any of it.
No, really, I'm looking at, like director's name, do stuff with.
Here I have this create.
How it's very creative.
I've got one that's with do stuff.
I have the feeling I have something to do the digital ocean,
because the do is cap and watched.
Nice.
I am organized.
There's some else that do my math somehow.
Lenderer.
Well, I hear that people are predicting the death of the Ubuntu phone.
Um, no, I've got three of the Ubuntu devices,
and actually they're quite nice from what they are.
Do you say you have one?
One, I've got three Ubuntu devices.
You got three.
One, two, three.
One, two, three.
But I have one Ubuntu phone.
I've got one KDE plasma mobile phone.
A KDE plasma mobile phone, I would be interested in.
However, as far as I know, you still can only really run that on your nexus if you put it on yourself.
There's no actual commercial available plasma phone to buy.
I believe you're correct.
I have, uh, I have it on a nexus five.
That's what you said that Ubuntu phone wouldn't.
No, Ubuntu phone is progressing.
It will go somewhere.
It's still with it.
They've got a lot of stuff they're kind of working on.
It's just taking time to get there.
But it is improving.
Well, last day with the air update,
it did seem a little bit pointless installing that.
But I think there was probably a lot of quite a few bug fixes in the background.
It got fixed anyway.
It's beautiful.
I love it.
On the Ubuntu phone, I have one on it.
It's not really an Ubuntu phone.
It's a Ubuntu touch on nexus four.
And I like it a lot.
And on the development side,
I was able to install some compilers,
and I was able to compile some code.
And I have a friend who is doing a lot of GUI work
using a package called Lazarus.
It's a...
I don't know if you've ever heard of Delphi,
but it's a rapid application development tool
that would make it possible to write applications for the phone very, very quickly.
Yeah, okay.
So we've got two of us.
I thought there was a question that sets me to say,
repeat the question.
There was a question we just had.
I think I heard it, how I heard it, but maybe it didn't.
Did I ask a question?
Was it Freed?
I mean, it might be Freed.
No, I...
I wanted to start talking about the Ubuntu.
The question is from...
from Tijo was basically...
he was trying to find out more about the...
I guess rumor that there's not...
despite the niceness of Ubuntu devices,
the Ubuntu phone might not make it through the year.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, that's basically what I thought ahead.
I think that...
I mean, the device...
Ubuntu Touch is going to keep on improving.
The goal is to emerge everything together on the desktop as well.
So you'd have the Intiate on the desktop by default.
That's not coming just yet, but by default.
But you've got a preview in 16.10 by default.
It's an optional session.
We're going to converge everything together.
So the computer, the tablet and the phone,
and then the other device will let me show you...
where Ubuntu could potentially run as a screen.
That will also have the Intiate.
In the background, you will have...
well, you've got Libertine on the tablet already to...
so you can run X-Aulk programs.
However, you need to...
there's only some by default.
You have to use a terminal to put more things on yourself.
But they're going to make that easier.
They'll be packaged around with a separate pack of manager.
On the desktop, you would have Libertine as well.
So that you can run X-Aulk programs inside the Intiate,
which they're sort of sorting out as well.
And the idea is then to converge all of that together.
The tablet, the standard desktop, the tablet phone,
or the Ubuntu touch...
Well, Ubuntu touch won't exist anymore when they converge it all together
because we call Ubuntu personal.
And that's what they're working on.
And it's taking time.
Ideally, they want...
but it seems that they would like to have Intiate there by default.
In Ubuntu, 18.04 launch support in two years.
Or just some to gnash it's less than two years now.
And that's what they're...
you know, that's what they're aiming for.
But there's a lot of stuff they have to do.
Plus, they have to rebase Ubuntu touch on Ubuntu 16.04 long-term support,
which have been the plans for quite a while.
It has not happened yet because of certain technical reasons, partly as well.
It's not just because the system did, but yeah, that's partly it.
There's some other reasons as well, why they haven't rebased it yet.
Plus, the apps are going to break, or they may break if they just do it.
But a commercial device, an Ubuntu touch device,
another one coming out this year, 2017.
It's not looking that likely because...
Well, we might get an MX-6 with my ZMX-6 when it becomes old,
or something like that with Ubuntu, but BQ don't seem to want to deal with one at the moment.
And I think it's because there's all this stuff that isn't quite there yet,
that I've just been talking about, or there's convergence of things going together.
I think when that happens, that a company will be like,
oh yeah, okay, we'll do an Ubuntu device again.
Or I'll do a first Ubuntu device.
It's still there, and I think they're going to hold off a bit,
on releasing another device.
BQ have tried already, they've had a device here, and my ZMX have as well.
Oh my, that's awful lot of information.
Thank you so much.
Then you know about this, or I've been following a Ubuntu touch quite reasonably closely,
and I see as well.
I should be on some of the mailing lists, be honest,
but you get enough info from my OC, if you hang out in the channel and stuff.
What's going on?
I'm not going on.
No, I really had no idea.
I follow a couple of the communities on G+,
I've got about five seconds a day to take a look.
I was real happy to get over the error update,
and have been a proponent.
I post about it a lot, and get Snicker to have a little bit.
But I don't, I want to place some faith in the Ubuntu touch.
I want to see it grow.
I desperately want to embrace it.
I want to embrace something besides Android.
I mean, I'm using it as my daily drive-for-ready, as it's called.
If I'm having me on a laptop podcasting right now,
but otherwise, I'm on my tablet pretty much all the time.
My Ubuntu tablet now, 99% of the time.
Basically, because I realized that I don't really need a computer,
a natural computer most of the time anymore,
because you can do web browsing and e-mail and you listen to music
and all that basic stuff on the tablet, just fine.
And then it's only occasionally when I want to do a virtual machine
or something that really requires a computer.
So I've been living the whole convergence idea
of what a Bluetooth keyboard as well,
where you can just put into desktop mode and tablet mode.
And I've been doing that.
Yeah, that sounds beautiful to me.
I'm trying to bail on Android.
I've got an awful lot of devices that I could fit Ubuntu touch on.
I've got all range indexes, but not.
I'm really wanting that converged idea that you're talking about
with a phone and hook it up to the screen and keyboard.
That just sounds wonderful to me.
I don't want to give up on this.
I'm crying thinking the world is going to go to Android
and the only hope is something else is going to be dashed.
I don't think Sailfish is it.
I looked into that and I just then to touch just this is bright,
shiny, beautiful thing that I don't want it to leave.
I want to support it.
I've got other developers wanting to support it.
I've got a guy who's writing GUI apps for it right now
and I'm getting ready to start doing the same.
Sailfish is good as well.
We had this discussion earlier last night actually with somebody.
He basically said on here last night there was a discussion
about Sailfish iOS as well and Ubuntu touch.
But he basically said that Sailfish iOS is probably the best one
out with a lot when it comes to how much you can run or currently
because you can run all the Android apps all pretty much.
You can do native apps as well.
Sailfish iOS is quite a nice iOS as well.
But they do have different goals or different ideas,
even Tizen for that matter if you put that in there as well.
I do think that the Ubuntu touch is probably
one of the most interesting ones to keep an eye on
because they've got all these ideas.
It's just a bit unfortunate that you can't,
in a way it's unfortunate that you can't run Android apps.
And it's not just because they don't want to support Android apps.
There's questions come up and ask them in the channel
and it's also slightly technical reasons that they can't just support Android apps
because of how technically it would have to be done
and how they can't really do it, wouldn't be compatible.
That's the impression I got from Alexie anyway.
But I think the debate about Android apps should be less relevant
when they have Libertine even more sorted out
because I see that as an advantage
because there's thousands of good quality desktop Linux programs
from Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice relies on tablet anyway.
BLC, it's thousands of desktop Linux programs
that are good, that I think if you can run that easily
on the tablet and the Ubuntu tablet,
or on the phone, for that matter,
there would be actually quite a good thing that
if the only thing is right now you have to go to Terminal
to add, you have to do your own Snap,
you have to do Terminal commands,
and then you can put more of your own programs on you
and all that, which is a bit complicated.
But when there's a packet manager is there,
just download and install that.
So I think the next two years for Ubuntu touch
should be quite interesting to keep an eye on
and see what's going on and what,
and when certain changes come as well.
Do I have some news for you?
I'm an old Borland guy.
You might not know who Borland is.
You may have heard of Turbo Pascal back in the days,
but they went on to write something called Delphi,
which is something called a,
it's a rapid application development tool.
Basically, you got all the little tools,
buttons, bars, scroll bars,
everything that you need to be able just to,
in minutes, push an app together,
visually, and then click on it,
and add the code,
and you can interface with shared libraries
and stuff so you can bring in C code and whatnot.
There was a knockoff of the Delphi.
I worked on the Delphi program.
It was one of the guys here at Portland.
There was a knockoff of that that was done
using a free Pascal,
and it's called Lazarus,
and it's gaining a lot of popularity
in the past few years.
There's a gentleman that took Lazarus
and was able to make a interface
between Lazarus,
the Rad Development Tool,
and Liberty,
and is able to punch out applications
just like in seconds,
to be able to build applications,
custom applications,
visual applications,
and put them on that Ubuntu Touch Phone.
Yeah, I think I did actually read something about this
on OMD Ubuntu before.
It'll be like another way to make apps
for Ubuntu Touch or possibly other platforms as well,
but it wouldn't be quite native as a native
and it wouldn't be the web apps,
but it would be like another way to make apps, basically.
These aren't web apps.
These are native on the phone,
real executables that run like a band out of hell.
This is native code
and native GL code,
and the like.
It is fast, fast, fast,
and responsive. It's all get out.
And I'm getting ready to get together with him
to work together on this.
I see it as the one
college savior from Google
taking over the planet,
which is why I'm kind of,
it was kind of sad about the,
you know, on the state of the Ubuntu phone,
I'm going to be the only person on the planet.
I feel like that's going to have one of these phones
in the full application development tool
and be able to punch out apps
right left and center
and you know,
worried that this is not going to go anywhere,
but you've given me a lot of hope
because I've, this guy,
he knows who I am.
I used to be on the development team
of the tool that he's using
that's a knockoff of it.
And between the two of us,
we could push something together for this thing.
Who's giving you hope?
I give you hope.
What he says.
I'm sorry.
You're going to have to bear with me.
I'm hard of hearing
since past seven years.
I can't hear her.
Can you repeat?
Yeah.
Who's giving you hope?
I give you hope.
Is that what you said?
I gave you hope.
Yes.
Yes.
Your news of the phone
hanging there a couple of years
keep looking at it.
You had a lot of information
that I didn't have.
I haven't had time to digest
or look or dig up or anything.
It's the phone that's interesting
because, well,
I think with the phone,
you have to kind of add on
liberty in yourself,
which it can be done.
But it's not really there.
But the tablet came with that
by default,
which is interesting.
And the few default programs,
Firefox, the Buffers, Gimp,
and the edit.
But what I think is interesting is how
the desktop is going to converge
and all that.
Well, aren't the personal watch
I was just talking about.
And so really the tablet,
a bunch of touch is basically
a preview of the future
of what's to come
with the desktop as well.
Or what's pretty much
what's to come.
And that's exactly why I said to some
the other day in the,
I say I said,
who couldn't get in the
bank, who couldn't get in the bank
from this particular phone
because there's no pull.
But I like,
if you put unisate on the desktop
and then you put the
put liberty in the
yourself,
from various apps,
then you basically have
what's on the tablet anyway
on your computer.
And also if you've got
a touch screen
and it will show people
what's come.
But the unisate
by default on the
Inuit Bund,
if 16.10 is very basic.
It doesn't have much
installed by default
from what I've seen.
On YouTube, actually,
because I'm,
I am way excited
because I can bring apps
to this platform
in short order too.
Yeah.
The only thing
with, I'm not sure
our Lazarus will work quite
but I mean,
there's the official
Ubuntu store
where the official apps
go that are,
okay, perfectly okay
with their security policy
etc.
And there's also
like a separate open
store or something
where there's a few apps
that go in there that
would break some
of the security issues
but
you'd have to be able
to install obviously
with Lazarus
onto the devices
really easily
and near the apps
I'm not sure
how that would work
but
Well, I know that he's
he's building
and compiling
and running
those apps
they're native.
I was,
I was able to get
the free pass call
installed on
my little phone
and
build essentials
you know,
see tools
and all that
and I was amazed
at what I was able
to get to call
on that phone
and get it
to run
from the first day
and
Well, was your
Ubuntu phone
or the
Yeah, well,
it's a Nexus 4
with a boom
too touch on it.
Well, yeah,
well, that's
pretty much
the same thing
anyway,
it's just
it's just
poor to the Nexus 4
but that's
the one they started
I think
developing
you still use
the full
there wasn't
the Ubuntu
commercial devices.
It's unfortunate
they dropped
support for the Nexus 10
because
I have one of those
sitting around
that since
the Nexus 10's not
getting much
in the way of Android
updates would be nice
to be able to
toss another OS on it.
So,
putting it in
would you touch on
there would be great.
Well, yeah,
it means
Ubuntu
touch
or cellophess
or
something
mentioned in this
now.
Yeah, I get the idea
that the KDE
Plasma is not going
anywhere.
It's kind of a shame
it's really pretty.
Yeah, I know it looks
great on the website
but then you get
back to, hey,
how do I run this?
Oh, I can't
I don't have a Nexus 4
or a Nexus
anything.
And then you back
to, well, well,
I can't really run this
then,
or not now.
I think they have
a full
back.
I thought that buying
maybe really cheap
Nexus 4
or 2nd hand
because we really
cheap now.
The old one.
And then you can
put some other things
on there.
But we'll see.
Yeah, I don't
think that the KDE
people have the
financial back
and they make
something like that
really work.
But I think
that Ubuntu
I think does.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think
Plasma may have
actually been based
on a Bentley touch
as well.
But
the sonical
had, well, they
got some sort of
their interest
to
converge
all these things
together, like
which I was talking about.
Because that's
how they're going to
potentially make
profit as well
in the future.
Especially when
more devices are being
sold, I would
have thought
more deals with
various hardware
partners.
I mean, any
beaker and
might
be willing to start.
But there'll be
other hardware
manufacturers
who will come
on board
and actually
ship the
technology
together.
Once that's
done, I think
more company
will think, oh, we
might actually try
Bentley touch
on a commercial.
I'm also
if it can buy more apps
as well.
Because that's
another issue
that Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
Ubuntu
And that's your official app store and that's the shame as well, really.
I think that's one of the interesting points of this Lazarus bridge.
I want to call it to the Ubuntu Touch System.
Delphi, which is what Lazarus is basically a knockoff of,
is a great environment for building mobile apps on Android and iOS
and you could take the same code and build it for either war.
You'll be able to take that same code and dump it into Lazarus,
compile it and push it out on the Ubuntu phone.
Meaning you can take your same code and build an app for iOS,
for Android, and for Ubuntu Touch and push it out.
That makes it an ideal platform, development platform,
that makes it an ideal tool for developer.
Well, yeah, I mean, cross-platform is good and for developers,
it should be easy, because you just make for one and one thing,
and it'll run on everything.
But for example, we can then take them into this as well,
and it's already got all these apps and iOS even,
but yeah, cross-platform generally is a good thing.
Look at Firefox, for example, just in general,
because it's not maybe not as quite as popular as it wants or because of Chrome,
but my point is, you know, it got pretty popular,
and that's also because it runs on different platforms.
Well, I'm excited. This is not bad.
I agree on the Nexus 10.
I'd like to, I've got one sitting here.
I've been new-conpaving devices trying to get Android off them,
and I'll take almost anything I can get.
I don't know what I'm going to do with the 10, but the 7,
I think it touches coming to you.
Well, there's a UB ports.
I mean, technically, they've stopped supporting officially supporting the 7 as well.
There's a UB ports website.
I can put a link to it in the chat in a second.
Did they stop support on the 7?
Officially, like the middle of 2014.
I was just looking at it.
But the UB ports is a project that's trying to get a Bluetooth touch
on as many different devices as possible,
and it's about 90% there on the 10 and the 7.
For the 10, specifically for me, since that's what I've been playing with,
the one thing that's missing that I would like you to have is Bluetooth support,
so I can actually use a proper keyboard.
Yeah, UB ports, so yeah, that's, it's got support for Nexus,
OnePlus 1, and smartphone, but it doesn't all come to work,
but the idea is to port it to different devices and officially.
However, I can't remember what this...
There's something else in the UB ports.
This is interesting to know.
I read about on OMG Ubuntu, of course,
but probably about a month ago now,
and he was going to Crowdfund.
He wanted to, there was an idea to Crowdfund
a little of the video from the Ubuntu event UBCon,
where he's been talking about this,
and he was going to Crowdfund some sort of device that would do something interesting,
and I can't remember what it was now,
but there was something he was going to Crowdfund potentially,
the UB ports person, and it would make convergence.
That's what it was.
It would make convergence a lot easier or better
with the Ubuntu devices, I think that was the idea.
Some sort of device that would be cheap,
and then he was going to possibly Crowdfund,
but I'll be trying to get it Crowdfund.
Oh, man, I'm there. I found it.
I think the UB ports is only really one guy.
Maybe two guys now, and that's how small it is in reality.
So it's going to be amazing.
It's amazing.
It's going to work. He's actually done all these ports.
Next to Saturn?
One plus one?
In the realm of digital ocean, these guys need support.
Well, they have, he has incorporated some crowdfunding to it.
I think there's a Patreon account tied to this.
This is nice. This is great information.
This is very good information.
Thank you so, so, so much.
One other debate though,
is a guy from my limits user group,
who I used to think was really into Ubuntu,
and he played it because people's computers as well,
and one day was kind of guys.
But he always came across somebody who liked Ubuntu.
Then while he turned on my Ubuntu phone,
and I let it tabla, he was always a bit like,
oh, I don't know, Ubuntu Touch.
It doesn't really work so well.
It Android's better, and Android seems to sort of work a bit better.
And then he sort of thinks that Ubuntu isn't Touch
isn't as good as it should be by now.
But I think it's very good for what it is in reality.
You've all of the products enough.
But the debate here as well is that he was a bit like,
oh, I don't know.
I'm going to, I don't really like, I'm not so keen on Ubuntu.
You know, I don't really want the same interface
on everything.
Newtate on the tablet and all the rest of it,
which is a bit goal of convergence.
So he's actually switched to KD Neon, I think,
because it's this way recently.
But that's a debate there as well,
if that's for you, the right path to go,
because the unitate is more mobile-styled interface.
And if you're going to run that one,
your desktop computer will amount and keyboard as well.
You know, if that's really good,
if that's really a good idea or not.
And because Apple had the same interface on things as well.
And Windows tried that.
I think the general debate is if you just have a mobile interface
or something more mobile-styled on the desktop computer as well or not.
And I think, I think it's fine.
That's the future.
That's sort of where things are going.
But not everybody does.
And if you guys all have different interfaces,
you think it's a good idea to sort of put the same interface on everything,
like let's try and stay with Ubuntu,
and they've sort of done with Apple,
and Windows have done it as well, really, I guess.
Or do you think we should have more choices
or we should be like,
oh, this is a desktop interface.
If you see my question.
I see your question.
And me, I'm inclined to not have homogeneity between devices,
because I interact with my phone or my tablet in a very specific and markedly different way
than I do with my desktop machine.
Now, that said, a few or a few people are using desktops,
or your laptops for that matter.
So it's not so much convergence as it is for placement, in my opinion.
But I think there's for working on a desktop versus working on a phone
by the constraints of the hardware itself,
they require different UI paradigms.
Yeah, I think that's, and that's sort of it, isn't it?
Like, oh, even though I'm using a desktop,
so this is sort of no more mobile,
even though I'm free,
you could put under that as well.
You could say, oh, it's not quite what I want.
It's not so quick on the desktop sometime,
because did do do do do,
but this, so I need a more classic style interface.
But not sort of debate,
but actually it was sort of a side topic,
but I've just thought of it again.
I've read very recently,
the Libro office are actually in their next big update,
which coming soon,
they're going to give it.
People went to face choices.
It was called, come on, what's actually called.
It was, I read this on an Airbnb Ubuntu,
but there's going to be like a ribbon styled interface,
like Microsoft Office,
and there's going to be something more classic style,
and there'll be, I think there's going to be four interfaces
that people can choose from the settings,
which interface they want,
which is probably really good,
what they're doing now,
because they're not doing the one interface fits all approach,
actually giving people four options of interface.
Yeah, and I think that's an necessity,
because they've been trying to get Libro office
to work on on mobile devices tablets and whatnot,
and the existing Libro office interface,
which I've used on Android
with a couple of the Libro office ports,
is not great for a touch interface.
And so, yeah, I think having different choices
that are specific to a device,
or workflow are good.
I'm not particularly jazzed about the ribbon interface
as implemented in MS office,
but maybe the Libro office team
will learn from Microsoft UI teams' mistakes there.
Yeah, that's the Libro office,
but where's a clinical with a bunch of obviously
doing the one-in-face fits all approach,
because it's all going to go unite,
that's the plan,
any device with a screen.
Okay, you had a KDE and that and stuff,
but probably the fault,
you know, it's going to unite eventually,
and that's it.
All those devices,
all those computers.
Yeah, and I think that's,
I don't want to say this,
where it sounds like I'm being too disparaging,
but it is classic sort of
programmer thinking is,
have one interface,
because then you only have to maintain one interface, right?
You're only doing development for one thing,
and if everybody uses that one thing,
then you could support a bunch of different devices
for a single interface,
and from a programmatic standpoint,
from a development standpoint,
that's way easier to maintain,
and way easier to work with,
but from actual working with it on the user-land side of things,
it's user interfaces need to be tailored
to the devices that people are using,
and I think, so I think,
I think it's a mistake to try to have
completely imaginative in that regard.
Yeah, I think I agree with that.
I mean, that's basically it probably partly.
If I have one interface,
and in case it can't get it,
can't completely also
don't have mayor on the background,
but that's a side thing.
But if they control that one interface
and some library thing,
it was convenient to maintain,
but as a user,
you might want different types of interface.
Any other device?
And divide it on this.
Well, I mean,
that's also what abstractions for, right?
So from a programming standpoint,
if you can abstract
your underpinnings enough,
then not to overly trivialize it,
but you're just slapping new skin on it
based on whatever device you're using,
whatever setup it is.
But again, it's still a different block of code
that has to be maintained.
So I understand the hesitance.
But I mean, if you're going to do it right,
then my opinion is that
you have to have different interfaces,
and so you have to have proper abstraction.
But the downside of proper abstraction
is that that can entail some overhead.
And if you're trying to go on mobile devices,
then the overhead of abstraction
could ruin performance.
So it's engineering.
Everything's a trade-off.
Unfortunately, the one thing that we're missing
in the year 2017 is the one thing that they killed
when happened to cover Steve Jobs' next system,
which was a device-independent display system.
He used display postscript,
but make that job a lot easier.
But yeah, this guy I was talking about,
he seems strongly.
I think he's so opinionated that he wants
a desktop interface on a desktop computer
that, yeah, well, he didn't say,
it isn't good enough.
So he will,
I'll say he's going to end up using something else,
like the KGN on the web,
but I guess that's the thing with Linux as well,
is that, you know,
so opinionated, anyway, in general,
that's just one guy I was talking about.
But, you know,
everyone has a different opinions,
and that's why we end up all these interfaces
and distros in all the rest of it in the first place,
because no one ever peaked these degrees
with each other in that sense.
Agreed.
For agmentation sucks.
Well, score for agmentation, isn't it?
But, actually, I call that choice.
If you've got all these different distros
and all these different interfaces,
and all these different browsers,
and graphics,
and all the rest of it,
then well, that's choice for it, isn't it?
Oh, that's a good take on it.
Good is difficult.
And I think fragmentation is good.
It's just difficult.
There you go.
It's one thing that sometimes it angers me
and other times I'm pleased with it, so.
I mean, without fragmentation,
I wouldn't be running enlightenment
with my very wacky personalized setup.
That works great for me,
but I wouldn't recommend necessarily using it,
using my specific configuration.
Agreed.
I wouldn't be interested.
I saw where all this goes.
I've seen enlightenment as many
being a sort of a toy interface,
or a bike, or more like a toy flashy effect thing,
but I guess that's not quite the case then.
It can be actually more lightweight, more usable,
and all that.
Yeah, it hasn't been a toy interface
since I've probably about a 15-E13 era,
where it was really, really heavy on the eye candy.
But even then, it was pretty performing,
because it was all handled on software.
But it's really a working set.
And with that, my children have come
and told me that they're awake,
so I have to go make breakfast for them.
So I'll talk to you guys later.
Good talking to you.
Yeah, good talking to you.
Yep, I'll see you guys around,
IRC for sure, and probably
I'm not sure how long this will be,
actually, going on for much longer,
but how long, but we'll see.
Yeah, no, I'm just talking to General IRC.
I tend to hang out in the Outcast Planet channel
pretty regularly, so.
But yeah, it's IRC.
All right, good morning folks.
All right, and with that, I may be going too.
I just, I think I've got something
to finish my backups with.
Yeah, I think I've done this for long enough as well.
I think this is basically over now,
because no one else on, but that's how it goes.
That's fine.
Well, officially, there's been,
I make it sort of two hours and a half after show.
Oh.
A little of some of the bits when no one was chatting,
but it's been going on two hours and a half after the time.
So that's actually quite reasonable.
Thank you so much for that info on the phone too.
Wait, well, there's just general direction
and the bundle touch.
Yeah, yeah.
Right in my day.
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of opinion out there.
Like, oh, it's not really going anywhere or it's not going to be there.
So it's not going to be that.
But I, I, I didn't agree with that.
Oh, I know, I've, I've tried to develop.
What I didn't say, they're actually, I've actually met,
because I've done Brussels since 2012 for Foslem.
I actually got to meet.
So I really, I went to a bunch of talks last year there as well.
And one of, one of which was about announcing the tablet
that was going to come at that time, you know,
and being there is not official just yet.
But I knew a nice unit of tablets coming already.
And they were talking there and you see some of the general direction.
I've got to meet Mark Shuffleworth in fact after one of these,
one of these features briefly.
That was, that was good.
I met Mark Shuffleworth.
Yeah.
I got to, I talked to him briefly and shook hands with me.
Yeah.
There's, there's asking the questions for one of the speakers.
And there's videos of these features up on that actually.
I asked questions as well.
But what are the guys doing a speech?
Who is, he's like one of the main developers of what he does liberty.
And I think so.
When you, when you go to something like that as well,
you see something like that.
You can, I think that's partly as well.
You sort of see where they're going.
And you sort of get the feel or the things.
And yeah, bunny touch is definitely going somewhere.
It's just, it's just taking time sort of thing.
And the RSC as well.
And so it was also, isn't it?
You know, all these great people you can get in contact with and sometimes meet as well.
And find out about all these great projects that are being worked on.
It just, it just all takes time.
Because I mean to develop enough.
Yeah, it's not something that's going to happen over overnight.
I just hope it doesn't get dropped.
It seems.
Oh, I don't think it, I don't think it's going to get dropped.
But it's going to get dropped when they go to a bunny personal.
But I talked about that earlier.
That's just convergence where everything together.
But in the sense of the, you know, tablet and the phone being dropped.
I don't think so.
I think I'm going to keep going on that for a long time.
I mean, look at the desktop bunny.
That's been amazing.
It's two thousand four.
You know, October 2004 was their first release on the desktop.
And that was 2017.
And they've had, you know, so many releases.
And if you look at, I thought, and if you look at history,
there'd been other players who tried to go more mainstream that failed or lost the market.
Sandros, Mandriva, Inspire.
Probably a few other ones as well.
But a bunny who has been around does the sort of the most popular distro ever since 2004.
So I think it's going to, I think it's just going to keep on going until the next is not relevant anymore,
basically.
Unless something really goes wrong with unity or something when it converged stuff together.
But I think see them sort of disappearing.
And I think the carry on with the phone and tablet and whatever is going to potentially make the money as well.
Because they are commercial.
It's a community and the commercial company.
And the commercial company wants to make money.
They're going to make money if they can sell enough to get enough of those tablets and foam sold in the future.
That's how I see it anyway.
I think that there's a big market that will develop for non-Google solution to mobile.
Yeah, and Google.
And that's it as well.
I think I've always a bit, it works.
It's okay.
It's a little bit less than there as well on the background.
But it's common.
It also sort of tie people to Google where you will play and all that.
And it's good to have choices.
I mean, I got even my, some of these choices are Android based.
They're good as well.
We mix iOS and things like that.
But actual, proper, more proper alternative choices.
They've only touched on the face.
Showing about Firefox OS or anything like that.
They basically gave up on that.
But it's good to have, you know, it's good to have choices.
That's how I see it.
It's not the idea of just being one or two platforms or whatever.
I like choices in general for anything.
I mean, you know, going to a shop and all you had to eat was two food options and something.
You know, it's good to have choices, isn't it?
Well, to be honest, I get a good peek of what's going on on the privacy scene,
and the security scene on Android.
And I'm not pleased at what I see.
I understand that there's a little Android run underneath the hood of touch.
But that's okay.
It's just some driver stuff, mainly.
Yeah.
There's that as well.
When I try to Android out,
I fully really pop you the Samsung S3 Mini, to be honest.
So that's only a few years ago.
But what I notice is the apps, you've installed them there,
and they want to have access to everything, basically.
That doesn't seem very skilled to me.
Well, apparently they've got better skill accessing as more recent versions.
But yes, security, privacy,
how you install one that basically do everything with your phone.
That doesn't seem skilled to me.
That's what Android was like.
I did.
I did a deep dive into what was going on on my mobile devices.
Deep dive into what was going on on the privacy front.
And it's got me wiping my devices.
My wife, to put it into a net,
so I'm a technical guy.
I know this stuff.
My wife's friends are not techies,
and they don't know this stuff.
But my wife came to me over the weekend.
She says, all my friends have left Facebook for this other mewee
or something that is a privacy detection thing, social network.
And they've left Facebook over privacy issues, data mining and stuff.
They clicked to them what was going on.
And they don't really understand what's going on.
I understand that Google wants to look at everything.
They want to see where you are.
They want to know that you're driving through what I call the burger walker.
And they can change eventually.
If they're not right now,
they can change the price on the menu,
or they can change what's presented on the menu,
because they know you're sitting in front of it.
And they know who you are.
Even the podcast players on Android and iOS.
They're listening to what you're listening to,
and they're creating a database.
They're listening to what you're listening to,
when you're listening to it,
and they're selling the information.
And all this is coming back and it's biting, and it's biting hard.
And people are starting to realize that
they may pay a different price to store,
or the coupons that get presented to them
are different.
The shopping experiences are different based on who they are,
and where they're coming in from.
I originally started using Google,
because they were a good search engine,
because I was a developer.
And when I typed in XYZ technology,
it gave me developer information.
And I was happy with that.
Today, when I type in something that gives me,
the one that sell me stuff,
I don't get technical information anymore.
My search has changed.
And it's changed based on where I log in from,
where I'm at,
all sorts of factors that are going on.
I looked at my devices,
and I looked at all these little apps,
and I looked at what they were reporting back and sending back.
I started looking at the packets.
I started stripping this,
so I started doing all kinds of stuff.
I wired short the L out of the splits.
And I'm not happy.
I'm not happy about it at all.
I'm realizing that they're listening to everything that I say.
They're recording some of these apps
who are taking pictures when they think I'm not looking.
It's crazy what is going on.
I'm ready to move on to a system that I can trust.
Now, I'm not sure that the App Store from Ubuntu
is going to be any better,
and I'm not, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to trust it either.
But I would trust the phone,
and I would trust well-bedded apps.
Right.
So I've got two points, then.
So, yeah, first of all, the whole security, privacy thing.
I think that, well, yeah,
if the apps are too much controlled,
like the camera on or something,
when you don't know,
and all the same,
but any operating system.
And,
and then Google,
I like Facebook, you know,
and probably Twitter or something.
So, as well, information,
even if it's just general information,
it kind of sells,
it's a database.
They kind of want that info anyway,
because they can maybe money off it
or they can do whatever with it.
That can sell the money to your insurance company
and tell them what you're buying at the grocery store
and they can price your insurance.
Well, yeah,
you probably don't do it that
because you all have different health insurance.
But I can tell you,
that's what's going on here.
And now there is what's going on here.
You know, they are looking at what you're buying.
They are pricing your insurance difference.
Well, yeah.
It's like the cookie is on the computer, isn't it?
You know, you go on certain websites,
get cookie,
and then things get together
and you get certain address coming up
and taxes advertising and all this, yeah.
Yeah.
And even the podcast stats
that you're getting,
they're not interested in it
from an advertising standpoint.
They're interested in it and tracking you.
Where are you listening to podcasts?
Where are you at?
Why are you listening to that podcast?
Oh, you're driving through the Kentucky Fried Chicken.
You know, they want to know that.
They want to change the menu
at the Kentucky Fried Chicken
as you drive through.
You know,
it's all about the information and tracking.
And there's a lot of money to be made on it
and a lot of money on these metrics.
And people are slowly starting to figure out
what's going on.
And they're not liking it.
And they're not liking it.
As my wife said,
my non-tech friends
are moving off the Facebook
because they've started to figure out
what's going on with Facebook.
And it's more than just, you know,
there's a lot of intense mining going on
and they're not happy with what they're seeing,
you know,
what that really means
and they're starting to figure it out
and they're leaving.
And I think that there are people
that are going to see Google
as the same thing.
They aren't this beautiful
little colored alphabet company
but really that's the evil empire.
They're behind all the tracking.
That's what they're built on.
And no,
they're going to want to leave.
And they're going to want to leave to something else.
And what else is there to leave?
Well, you can't leave to Apple.
There is bad.
You know,
iOS isn't going to get you any further.
But a boom-to-touch?
Maybe so.
You know,
Apple, Apple want,
Apple want information as well, Microsoft.
As for if you can trust the,
I mean, conical,
what's it going to say earlier is,
I mean, even conical,
you know,
you can't trust them all.
That's what people say.
I mean, they had some issues
with the,
some during privacy issues in the past.
But for example,
the Amazon thing in the Unity
that dash,
which is now being removed.
Right.
They were sent results to Amazon
and just hold the bait about if that should have been in there
and all that.
Little things like that.
Nothing, nothing,
so major.
But,
in that sense,
it's sort of,
can I trust?
Can you trust conical,
not,
are they OK?
I would say,
generally,
that you can trust conical.
And,
or enough,
because,
it's,
a lot of people who worked
at the Unity as well,
but it's not just that.
Just generally,
they probably can be trusted
mostly,
for the most part.
But,
we're going,
let's just app.
There's only really one
that's been known about
so far,
for Ubuntu Touch
and all the attention
malicious app they've got in there.
And that's quite a good story in itself.
So,
that's been last year.
Oh,
2017,
it goes 2015 then.
Yeah, 2015.
It's happened.
I went to the
old camp event
and Alan Pope,
but Popeye
did a speech about it even.
He's one of the main
Ubuntu people
who were
economical.
But, basically,
there was a malicious app
that got into
the Ubuntu App Store
and it changed the
boot-up screen
on the,
on the BQ devices
and the Mazoo.
And they basically say
at the bottom,
so, saying,
powered by Ubuntu,
it would say,
powered by Logan Lam,
who, if you look up,
is apparently a,
a computer,
a cracker,
or something like that,
a blackout,
or something like that.
And,
the app was called
test, and they go into
the app store,
and about 20 people
actually installed it,
or something like that,
because they got some statistics
on how many people have
downloaded the app.
And,
it was called test.
And,
nobody knew quite well
it would have done,
or probably
it's the proof
that you can put
something rushes in there.
It was quite clever,
because it was, basically,
two apps in one.
It was a,
an app that looked
generally
totally checking
of apps,
combined,
with another app,
which then did these changes.
And,
and that's how it kind of
fools the checking,
but they've,
like,
but they've learnt from that,
and I believe they've fixed
the whole error,
how it kind of got through.
And,
but that's like the only
malicious,
potential malicious,
abundantly touch app
that has been so far,
that it's known about,
anyway.
Oh, I think,
I think,
contacted the 20 people
who downloaded it
and sort of said,
oh, you never want
to reflash your phone
or whatever happened,
as well.
I think that there's
a good possibility for,
well,
I think a,
a Ubuntu stands,
canonical stands
a good choice,
because they're
reasonably trusted.
The OS is open source,
and,
as long as that stays that way.
And,
there's going to be people
that are going to say,
well,
okay, maybe I don't want
to use the store,
or maybe I want to use
this other store,
maybe I want to get my apps
from somewhere.
There might be somebody
like me,
when I'm saying,
I don't want any of that stuff.
Okay, I,
honestly,
I look at the Ubuntu,
uh,
touch as it's installed
and saying,
I don't want most
of this stuff.
You know,
I don't want a
weather app.
I don't want,
um,
well, I've made a list
of this stuff,
but actually,
try to take it out.
Um,
yeah,
but I mean,
both default,
there isn't going to be
that much,
but there really,
I mean,
there wasn't even
an email claim.
There's probably
quite a while
but yeah,
you get a nice OS
by default
with the Ubuntu touch.
Then it's
normal app,
so you can do that.
It's nice.
There's not,
and I think I've
installed it
and everything that they
will let me,
but I'm not sure
that it actually takes it
out.
I've got the messaging app
and the contacts app,
and I'm suspicious.
It's got a browser,
um,
the gallery makes me
a little,
I understand.
I've got to have some
phone,
some pictures there.
While manager makes me
a little suspicious
with the Ubuntu touch.
Drive by.
Just because the
drive by,
um,
things.
You've got the Ubuntu touch
device then.
I'm sorry.
Have you got the Ubuntu touch
device or not?
I've got one right
in front of me
in my hand right now.
Which one?
I've got a Nexus 4
with the Bluetooth.
I've got a Nexus 4
with the Linux touch.
The police are there,
right?
Yeah.
You know,
that's one of the
prob people,
so as a Ubuntu touch,
or as a Ubuntu phone,
and then you've got
you know,
the operating system,
you can stick on like a
Nexus or something.
I've got,
I've got the Ubuntu touch
operating system.
If I said that right,
on a Nexus 4,
and then I've got
KDE Plasma running
on a Nexus 5,
I've taken off the
weather app,
but I think it's still
there.
I think it's just a,
um,
just with that.
Yeah,
there's a bit of a
side was kind of off
topic,
but it's kind of relevant
still sort of,
it's kind of,
it's an interesting little
story in a way.
When I got my first
Ubuntu touch,
the commercial Ubuntu
touch device,
the BQ Curious 4.5,
so last year,
no, 2015,
no,
2015.
Um,
it was,
although I was,
it was,
Ubuntu touch
improved.
That's something else
about that one,
but,
but what I noticed is,
uh, when that came
in sort of,
um, April,
2015,
it was like,
oh, I can't play
my browser history.
I can't,
why can't I play my
browser history?
That was that.
And also,
there's an option
in the settings.
Do not report your
crash reports to
conical.
And if you went
and disabled that,
it would enable it
and send the crash reports
to conical anyway.
There's like a bug
that's fixed that.
Um,
and then I ended up
thinking I lost that
phone as well.
I'm going to be
talking about
that I lost that
phone and
it turned up.
But because it turned
up around nine months
later, I actually
keep that one
intentionally on the
whole version for now
because you can sort of
see progress
when you're updating
your other devices.
Um,
but yeah,
the privacy,
but with the privacy
setting,
it was a bit like,
it would be
able to disable it,
but then it would
enable it.
And you kind of wonder,
was this intentional?
Or was it really
just a bug?
Because, you know,
that's just kind of
forced out of the
phone.
Um,
so the problem with
the phone,
because, well,
anything wants to send
its,
the crash report
off some
wells.
Because we sort of
think what's
it going to send in
the crash report?
Yeah.
And then mine's got
something nobody else has
got.
And the interesting.
I got a video player
on here that nobody else
has got supporting
some file formats,
audio formats
that original phone
deserts.
that I custom made. It took a day to build it. I built it on the phone, the source code.
I built it on the phone. It took almost a day for it to compile. But it's a video. It's
a video player that's got some enhanced video formats and audio formats. I just built it
as a test. I've also got a PDF viewer on here that nobody else in the world has. That
took over a day to build it too. I built it on the phone. I copied a couple of apps that
I built. I'm going to say I built them on a Raspberry Pi and pushed them over their
phone and ran them. They were GUI apps. But they ran just fine. Or 7. Yeah.
Well, I mean, that's all you need with you. Anyways, next is Thor with a battery touch
on it. And then yes, you could make apps for a bunch of touch. I can make my own apps
all day long. I can build my own file managers. I can build my own contact thing. I can
build everything and do it in nothing flat with this with Lazarus. You know, I can go to
town and I can I can build my own apps and know that they're secure and feel all warm
and fuzzy about that. And then I can put them out on the on the internet and say, Hey,
here is an open source apps for the Boone to touch. And you know, if you're really worried
about security, here's the source code. Take a look. Compile it. You can build it yourself.
Just go down download free pass. I'll put it on the phone. Build it. There's Lazarus.
He said there was not a guy working on that as well. But is it actually out there now?
So if I want to run Lazarus myself for example, can I do that or not at the moment?
I'm sorry. Can you say that a little just a little slower? I'm really hard at hearing. I'm sorry.
You said that there was another guy working on Lazarus as well. But if I want to run Lazarus
myself at the moment, can I just do that? Can I download it or run it?
Oh, yeah, yeah, I can give you a link to this guy's side. He's got the interface
to liberty. He's got that worked out for Lazarus. And he's downloaded Lazarus onto his phone.
And he is literally building and compiling the apps on the phone on his on the Nexus phone.
And it should work on any of the Ubuntu touch devices.
Yeah. And the app. So what are the apps? What are the actual apps that I'm being
about? You said the web apps earlier or are they actually all more?
No, these are native apps. This is native code, 100% native code. This is not web appy kind of
stuff. This is the real deal for Ubuntu touch for Lazarus. Yes.
Well, which Lazarus will run into?
Well, it's Lazarus. He's got to run an under Ubuntu touch. Lazarus runs on a variety of operating
systems like X86, ARM, ENAI, other than that, she name it. I think I'll have lost my mouse.
But I see. So you make the apps for Lazarus, but Lazarus itself will run on various different platforms.
Right. Right. Lazarus is a UI, a GUI on top of free Pascal.
And with that, you can build native compiled code and you can interface it with like C code,
native C code, and shared libraries. And rocks. My mouse not working. Long mouse.
Yeah. I think I might have read about something like that. Yeah. I mean, people
need to know about Lazarus, obviously in Denver, because if you can run all these apps and so on,
then that's exactly what it's needed. I'm not just in the bunny touch, but I've very
even telephised iOS because I think I'm Android apps, but you know, it's the need more
kind of more native apps as well, or something's more native, anyway.
Well, the thing is, there's some guys like me. There we go. My mouse is back up.
Sorry. It connects underneath my desk and I kicked it.
Well, this guy has, with Lazarus, he got guys like me that have, you know, 30 years of code sitting
here, applications, and then can build applications to do almost anything that you want in
nothing flat. And then push it over there, being to the phone, we could fill up an app store in
nothing flat with native code for good quality apps. I mean, like I've got one on my, on my
Ubuntu phone right now, it plays videos that, I doubt you're, I know you're a phone
player, but I built that myself. He's got a game too that he did worse.
That's, that's, that's exactly the, that's one of the issues with a bunny touch. Currently,
it has been, or well, it is really, and maybe I guess Lazarus could help solve this issue.
Then, but the issue basically is that, and a lot of people think this as well,
I mean, the operating system, that's all right. That's good, but the app situation, it's like,
can you buy Android apps now, which I talked about earlier, but then the native apps, when you
look at what's actually in the Ubuntu store, 19, about half of those apps that come up in the official
Ubuntu store, not this set, but Ubuntu store where you got some other apps, but they're not,
they're mostly web apps, they're not really high quality good apps. And people,
guys, guys, guys, guys, close the high-close apps.
This guy's got a app he's building for this phone on a Ubuntu touch. I got videos showing long,
long videos of showing putting Lazarus the whole development environment, dropping buttons and
whatnot, just compiled several apps, a game. It's what this guy's doing is amazing, and this name's
Chris Mald to Whits. We got to hook up on it. You and I need to hook up on Google.
This guy's got, he's got it together, man. I'm telling you, I'm impressed, and I'm one of the original,
part of the development team of the compiler system that they knocked off.
I'm one of the original guys from the Delphi team at Borland. I don't know if you've ever heard
sure about Pascal and Delphi, but... No, no, but yeah, I mean Ubuntu, two app stores,
Liberty, Invaldex, Merlux, all programs and all that. In the case of SolarFist,
what they did is they got that... What they did?
...pastopinity. Well, two programs, that are aptoid, and they've got SolarFist OS.
They've got aptoid for installing Android apps from an unofficial stall where you've got the
YOLA store there. They've got YAMDex or something as well, and they've got YAMDex for Android apps
again. They've got the native apps in their store, there's not many apps there, native SolarFist OS
apps from what I know about, and then there's also ways to get Google Play running on YOLA.
Seems that with YOLA phones that a lot of people just run Android apps on there,
so it's kind of defeats the whole running mate about the bait, but they have a kind of
advantage there, because you can run Android apps. Tyzen, they have a kind of passability,
Samsung Tyzen, they've got... You have to store that in run Android apps, or a bit.
But it's all about apps, see? Which is what we're talking about, Lazarus. So if you can have,
so yeah, Lazarus, more people know about that. I like my bun who tablet to run a lot more stuff,
to be honest, so yeah. Yeah, I think it's very positive. I'm very, very much impressed with
what this guy's done. I have been just trying to clear off my desk so that I could get together
with him and get this going, because I'm interested from the security side of the thing.
I want to ditch Google from the privacy side. I want to ditch the apps from the security and
privacy side. I've been talking the only way I think I can do this is open source apps for the
Ubuntu system like Ubuntu Touch is really the only way to do this.
Yeah, well, yeah, it needs to be open source. Ideally, the apps need to be secure,
privacy respecting as well. That's important. And I know there are probably various people out there
who are from across the field, and I see it as well. People who are like, oh, Google,
Android, sort of a cable, it doesn't really do privacy properly, and I would like to have
something more privacy respecting, more secure, and that's, I think that's generally what
literally I'm doing with these open source apps, the Ubuntu Touch cell if it's iOS and things
like that. But then you get back to the whole acting role. Can it run this? Can I run that app?
And that needs to be, and here's a solution that's secure, privacy respecting, and where you can
suddenly run all these good quality programs. And I thought you said that the others can also run
waste something about 30 years of code and how you can put everything with Lazarus,
an old program and make that run or something I think you was doing.
Is that a question?
At the end, that was a question, because you said something about 30 years of code,
an old program, and then Lazarus, and I think you said you could run the old program on Lazarus as well.
You're going to have to excuse me. I got the L7 years ago, something that our American
doctors can't seem to figure out what it is, but it's caused a code death.
I hear you said something about taking my 30 years of code and Lazarus, and then...
Yeah, I didn't know. You said something earlier about something that Lazarus, and you said,
for it, there was an old program, 30 years of code, or something like that, and I'm just saying,
can you, I guess I'm asking if you can run these old programs for Lazarus as well?
Yeah, I can tell you, I've got 30 years' worth of programs that I've written
that for Belphi and Lazarus, that I could port over to a Boone-2 phone and have these things
running in nothing flat. As I said, I could fill up a store in short order and soak it others.
It's not just me. There's a lot of developers out there that have written a lot of great
apps that have already... Yeah, that's what's needed, but I would say that's what's
sort of thing that is needed for BanuTouch, but also, yeah, security, privacy, specs, and all that,
but importantly, it needs to be kind of done the official or official enough clinical way,
so that you can even be there by default, you know, you get binsoil banuTouch, you've got Lazarus,
there by default, if you can get that done officially, then like you're saying, then I think...
Yeah, that's probably quite ideal, really. That'd be really nice if I could do that, yeah?
I don't say a reason why I couldn't. Well, it's supposed some policy or something, you know,
like, oh, you've even had this officially in the BanuTouch, this is how you do it, this is how you
have to do it, or something like that, because I mean, there's a separate unofficial app store as well,
which I mentioned before, which gets a few more apps that
as privacy, respecting all some reason, break the official BanuTouch policy,
and so people who really want these apps can still have them, but they have to install the unofficial
store, and then they have to install the app from that, and that's... I don't think there's that much
in there, but there's enough, some of the interesting stuff that's come in there, and that's not really
ideal. Yeah, I think he's actually planning on doing some sort of store, oh man,
well, no, he's got a really, really interesting blog. I've been watching him, I've been watching
what he's doing, about one of it out, probably three people in the world watching this, and
it's amazing, but this guy has managed to do is amazing, and I know what it means, he knows what it
means, and there's probably one other person on the planet that's watching that knows what this
means. He's got his compiling apps, he's got video, the real deal. Yeah. Yeah, you want Google
plus, G plus? No, I don't believe he's Google plus. I've got an account, I'll give you a account,
obviously, but... This is worth, this is worth you seeing it, I think. He's got a
Ubuntu touch on screen keyboard, back, got a game, doing containers, got a blog on
taking the same code, and natively compiling it, or Linux, Mac, iOS, BSD, and Ubuntu touch.
That's amazing, I've just been trying to clear off my desk long enough to
clear off my desk enough for us to sit down, we're supposed to sit down after the first of the
year, I guess it's the first of the year. I'm excited, did Alicia? Hello, Mr. Pover, that's it, and
this would keep this thing like... Or instead? Wait, what was that? I said morning. After the
year now, but yeah. I didn't think anyone would actually still be on right now. No, I nearly went off
it, but I still had it open, so... No, I just finished trying to joke about 50 minutes here, I think.
What are you doing then? Currently making coffee and breakfast and all that fun stuff.
What mobile phone stuff? What's that? What mobile phone stuff? Yeah, I said I'm making
coffee and breakfast and all that stuff. Oh, right, okay, yeah. I'll be right back.
All righty. Yeah, I had one these years, one of the previous years, I kept just going after
the game for a very long time, but probably not going to do that this time. I remember... I don't
know if it was last year or a couple years ago where it was still going for like on January 2nd,
I believe. Yeah, it was, and it was because of me, but mostly, probably actually closed
kept on going. There's people join, leave, join, chat a bit more, get another one,
and they kept on going for a very long time. In fact, for me, I was about 16 hours after the thing
I landed. I'm not sure when I'm actually going to release this stuff, but eventually I guess.
I mean, did the after-showable chat still hit? Yeah, I'm sorry, I was tired of an IRC there.
I don't know when they're going to release the after-show stuff, but eventually I guess,
and then the other ones were really scheduled. I went to bed last night at about 2am,
hopped off the show at midnight and out back on now. Yeah, that's why I got to sleep about
I think it was about 1, 2, at a UK time and then I woke up around 8 and then came back on this
about 9 in the morning, so yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry, I should have specified that I'm using a
different name because this is the one I usually use for, like, tilts and stuff, so.
Oh, right, yeah, I've been the name, I've done this for a year anyway, so yeah, it doesn't
make sense. What would you call peg well with one and then this one with that one, though?
Honestly, because I forgot to back up my mom's certificate.
So yeah, I could just pretty much log in and use this on this laptop, but that's because I hadn't
done it. I mean, I was going to like, actually, we said, well, I'm going to do a whole
piece of whatever it is very soon on the day now that I found my Windows 10, Windows 8 USB,
the official one that I actually bought, and I'm going to reinstall Windows,
reinstall Linux history, and put some of the stuff on the first place actually. But I meant,
the mumble was just pretty much went straight in from my year, my name from last time.
I got virus, something, and Windows, I believe, so yeah.
I haven't actually ran Windows in, like, 12 years now.
Yeah, I mean, it's going to go a little bit differently, but like,
on occasion, there might be a program or some sort of, oh yeah, boy, a new computer that has
Windows on it, or something like that, you know, and see, at least vaguely, right, sometimes.
But in general, I would keep the file away from it, and I'm not running, but on occasion,
like I'm saying, we might some sort of reason. Until I discovered Darktable, I thought I was
going to need to run Windows to use like Lightroom or something. Can you as well? Lightroom?
You say, do you take that tape as well? What do you say? Darktable? What's that?
Is the free open source Linux raw processing for photos and stuff?
Oh, right. But I don't know how to use that, but okay. Oh yeah,
got Windows is great, and I'm being sarcastic here, but I bought this mini PC, like,
DPC Win, it's cool, you can look that up. It's like, listen, it's not for gaming,
if you might have had the Pyro and OpenMendoor and all that stuff as well, so it's good like that.
But there was a GPC Win with a keyboard, and Windows 10 by default, this is my five-inch,
it's on a small screen, you get a perfectly genuine Windows 10 version on there by default,
for free. And I set it up, there's the Windows installed there. I mean, I bought this because I
wanted, it's like a mini PC, a desktop PC, and your pocket, powerful, the 20-thang computer,
and I've did mention this here earlier, but anyway, Windows lasted only, not very long at all on
there before I had gone wrong because I didn't have factory research, and there was like a bug that
stopped, that basically crept at it, so I had to sort of, no, I put the notes on there anyway,
and it sort of works, except for the wireless, because it had wasn't really designed for that,
just bitmine. But yeah, I got a little computer to play around with as well, that's good fun,
we'll get into it. To help your friend fix her grandma's computer recently, and I forgot that
if you just install Windows, you get pretty much just bare-bones Windows, like,
like all the drivers and stuff, and it is an absolute pain to install all the drivers you need
and everything like that, because I'm used to just installing something, and you're just going,
oh, hey, there's the hardware, yep, got it. Yeah, yeah, it's actually, that's basically it with
Windows, and that's actually, that actually shows how impressive Linux was on the CT-Wind,
because it was designed to win the van Windows, it's a Windows device, really, yes you can,
but it was crowdfunded, while I didn't crowdfund at the time I bought it from my Chinese site afterwards,
for more than any way, you can run Linux on there, but it was never really intended to run Linux on
there, so there's a bit, no one really quite knew, I remember reading all the comments as it's
being crowdfunding as well, but studying that this thing was never meant to actually really,
it was never designed to run out, so it actually runs really well, because the touchscreen works
pretty much straight out of the box, well, that works out of the box, the various things I've
tried in the month, you just seem to work, the sound doesn't work, but you can do a headset,
but it doesn't just work through the game controls, the rotation, I can rotate it in, but there's
a command that puts it the right way around for the image, and the wireless doesn't just work,
because it's got a Broadcom wireless in there, but other than those things, it actually seems to work
quite well, where Linux will eventually, I'm part of Linux 16.04 on it, but I always get the other
things working, I believe anyway, but the point is, by default, even on that, on a brand new
mini PC, from 2016, it just basically works, and that's Linux, that's how impressive it is, isn't it?
I haven't actually had Linux audio issues in quite a long time,
yeah, but it's the hardware, this device, it runs a bit different hardware, some extent,
from what new routes normally have on a normal computer, because it's not a normal computer,
it's a portable gaming console type thing, we're going to keep keyboards on there as well,
let's just try to look up, actually, GPD-Win, GPD-Win, another GPD-XD,
whether it was all for gaming or emulation, now it's in Android as well, but yeah,
but yeah, generally Linux just mostly works, except for UEFI, potentially, there's a laptop I
wanted to, Linux, the other week, a few weeks ago, and of course, UEFI issues again, there's HP
that one as well, but that's the annoying thing now, it's all a deal with UEFI, but other than that,
it's mostly generally just works around to a problem these days.
The only thing I've really had issue with hardware-wise is the trackpad my laptop,
it's an Alps trackpad, I think that's what it is, and when I first got it, it wouldn't,
I could only do like one finger anything, it wouldn't register one side of it as being able to
scroll or nothing, anytime you touch it, it would register it as a tap, and then it would move the
cursor. Yeah, well, yeah, it's thinking about that, but yeah, it's getting back to your earlier
point, Windows hardly sports anything at all by default, driver-wise, hub-or-wise, henceway,
all these drives in the first place, and also, you know, there's various programmes that
they would just take for granted in Linux, like a full-leab office, you get an office trial
from, I know, EM or something, but, you know, hardly any programmes actually put in Windows by default,
as well, where it's Linux distrares, we get probably quite a bit more by default, in general.
I'll be right back, my coffee's done. Are you still here? Did you just go away? Hello, Joe,
are you here for Mario or another one? Was that in? No, I was trying to chill about half an hour
ago, but I think you're a different one. That would be correct, half an hour ago, I was asleep,
so that again? Half an hour ago, I was asleep. You know, you're another Joe, yeah.
Were you on this at the actual new year, Pink? Say again. Were you on this on the actual new year show?
Oh, I logged on right after midnight today. Oh, you say that again?
I logged on right after midnight today for a little while. Yeah, because this is now the after show,
or whatever. For the know, I wasn't a part of the new year show. And this is now the after show,
or whatever, so that this will eventually get released as well, I believe. Were you from America,
I guess? What gave it away to the accent? Well, not really, yes, well partly maybe, but no,
but most of the people on here are from America, so it's kind of, it's quite likely.
No, I'm from Texas, I guess you could say, I've been here for the past 17 years,
but before that, I was in Iowa, for that I was in Georgia, for that I was in Germany,
for that I was in Oklahoma, for that Alaska. I've also spent some time in Korea and Kuwait,
and Iraq. Okay, she went my phone. Your mother?
Still there? All right, now here, soon my breakfast will be done.
Bye, okay. Morning. Afternoon. Where everybody go?
Uh, small round again now. Hey, there you go, there's Siva.
Siva. Hello. Who is Siva? Siva is my number one admin over at Tuxbytes Linux.
He also hangs out with me over Open Linux Community.
Hey, it's a really cool dude from Florida, which means he's on the same time, so
Well, yeah, boy, he's not sunny. Anyway, um, so,
Pigg will are you back here? Oh, Mr. Webber calls me. Sure him.
Boy, so the girl lives to have a 72 L after share, 72 hours.
Ha, ha, ha, you're a mad man. I'm down. Hey, what's up in the background?
Somebody doing the vacuuming? How long you think? Well, this could go on for ages,
if people actually change. It's either a vacuum or your computer sound.
What, what me? Okay, now I think it's gone. Yeah, someone was vacuuming.
Might have been my computer, the laptop fans.
I'm always curious, guys, on your computers and the BIOS,
how do you have the fans set? Do you have the fans set to always honor the other way?
Depends on what I'm using the computer for. I mean, my garage computer tends to always have
the fans on. I just go in the BIOS and set it that way. But it's not going to hurt if you
got set to always honor it. Well, naturally, your fans are going to wear out a little bit quicker.
The bearings are going to go quicker, but fans are easy to get, so.
And also, it takes quite a long time to wear out a little fan like that.
And of course, it's a little bit more of a picture, a place that's fan and a laptop.
Yeah, if you're working on a desktop, they got those so easy to take apart.
Nowadays, it's not even funny. Oh, you got a snapshot now.
One, two, three, two, one, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, ten, three, twelve,
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, purple, orange, squiggly line,
squiggly, what line? Squiggly. Ah, yellow, white, straight line.
Okay, tell me a joke.
Joke. My life.
Hey, how do you keep an elephant from stampeding? Cut off a stampeter.
What do you call a sissy in the deep south? A homo sex you all.
What is a sardine? The sardine's a little fish that smells like a finger.
Just some old red fox jokes.
Mike closed down for the yesterday's events.
Who's still here? I am. I am.
Why aren't we, why aren't we chatting about something actual?
Because I'm meeting and I don't want to see her smack into the mic.
Say that again?
So because I'm meeting and I don't want to see her now, you know, smack my lips into the microphone.
Is anybody excited about CES?
Excited about what?
CES consumer electronics showcase.
I don't know anything about it. You're not familiar with CES?
Unfortunately no.
CES usually has really good coverage of CES. HAC5 sometimes has really good coverage CES.
I'm not sure if the little reports are going to cover it this year.
Joe, your mic is really low. I can hardly hear you.
Alright, give me a few minutes. I'll switch to one of the other ones.
Say I'm going to go back to Open Linux Community.
It was really nice spending time with you guys. I'll see you all later.
Anyhow, that's why I'm going in case anybody wants to follow me. See you all later.
See ya.
Joe, do you go to the gym yet?
Yeah, I've been once or twice. Once or twice it's been a busy week, so not as much as I would like.
What do you mean today?
Nah, I'm not a big fan of January at the gym.
You don't want to see all the new year new me people?
Not really.
Joe is still really quiet.
Yeah, I'm pulling out my other mic. We're packing stuff up right now because we're driving from El Paso to the Dallas.
5150 lit up, I think. Who are you back from the sleep?
Apparently so.
Morning, 50.
Morning, I had to dig out in a pair of analog headphones.
The USB ones are done for now, not only day out of charge, but sometimes during the whole thing.
And this is before I went to sleep to left hand or rather right hand side can,
can quickly loose from the whole mechanism, other than just dangling by a wire.
So, you know, all the two little tiny little screws that Logitech put in there pulled out,
so I'm going to have to either get new ones or try to grow all the way through and hold it together,
with a bolt.
That's why I only really buy analog one.
Is that better?
Well, it probably didn't help that apparently I tried to wear them to bed,
because I found them in the bed with me this morning.
You know, I've ruined plenty of headphones that way, because I'll put them on to watch
like a movie or something on my phone as I lay there in bed, and I'll just drift off to
sleep and wake up and I'm tangled in them.
Right, this has got boring, like a pinhole tape, I'm going down a bit, or maybe not.
There's no way she has to.
Mm-hmm, still here.
Why did you say we were, well, there's nothing to chat about, yes, that's all.
Well, I brought up CES for nobody knew what I was talking about.
Well, do you actually go to CES, or you're just looking to see the reports of what new
stuff comes out of there?
I just watched for the new electronics coming out of there, the TVs, the computers, the drones sometimes.
And CES?
Yeah, I mean, if it wasn't so far away, is that true from here?
Then, yes, I would possibly go to that myself, but Las Vegas is rather far from here.
I've always lived relatively close to it, but you need an invite if you're going to go for
more than just the Sunday show.
One of these days, I'm actually going to go, like, I would love to go to CES and PhotoKina.
You just need to show up at the door and say, look, do you know who I am?
I'm sure that'll work really, really well.
Do you know who I am?
No, me, or I have amnesia.
Okay, wish we were saying that, uh, it's time to shut it down.
All right.
I'm getting a little bit yelled at by the wife because I need to help finish packing up the car.
It was saying that me or, uh, I was saying I'm like, you're off this and that's why I was saying.
I mean, the, uh, the official show here, I guess then we stuffed the after show.
Also, Joe, please don't get yelled at and possibly murdered.
I enjoy talking to you on occasion there.
Well, it appears it's a good thing that, uh, when we all got together, it said, uh, yeah, let's,
let's do, uh, the, uh, New Year's Eve show again.
I took absolutely no responsibility for anything.
So I don't have to do the editing when it's done.
Yeah, that's honking my goo is job this time.
So what do you think I'm doing yesterday?
Uh, nothing.
Probably going back to sleep a little while and feed cattle, pay some bills.
I was sitting on the podcast for another 10 hours peckle.
Even if no one's actually on it.
Yeah, if no one's actually on, I'll probably just head out.
I think, well, I think this is it now, really.
You know, just hit us left and that's probably about it, really.
So it's been like popping later, but it's still being abandoned.
Well, in that case, it looks like it's Netflix for me.
No, it's a bit, there's no, it's later here.
I've been doing this sort of, I've had somehow like,
since I've been sort of four hours and 80 minutes past the, uh, end of the other thing.
So it's quite well already.
No, but if I don't see, uh, anytime soon, I'll see you next year.
Well, I'm out there, I'll go to the RFC channel sometimes as well.
Oh, and 50 want me to record a show about the, um,
Remix IO and the Remix IO plus one I get those.
I have to give that a listen.
I'm actually recording the show all yet, pop for show.
Maybe that maybe this year, well, depends.
Yeah, it looks like a, and wanting to write it myself.
We didn't do a very good job of going in the, uh, uh,
etherpad with what we were talking about all day long.
Oh, well,
a few kids have fun.
I'm going to hop off here and go about the day.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same.
It's time to get off this video.
Um, so that's pretty much, I guess that's, this is the end of the after thing, I guess.
Time to go on the show.
It's 50 wants to keep it alive for 10 hours on the second.
No, no, I think I've had enough, I, yeah.
Yeah, at the beginning and now at the end, it didn't get as much in the middle as I would
like, but, uh, yeah, I, I think it's time to call it.
What was I about the middle?
Oh, I didn't get as much participation in in the middle as I usually do.
No, but there's, there'll be a, well, there was just a rough show and there's some
stuff to listen to, but other people's, uh, chat, and that's the point in the end.
Well, later, gentlemen.
Yeah, later.
Okay, the end, I guess, um, I'll have to share.
Greetings, you guys still here?
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