Episode: 84
Title: HPR0084: Phone interview with Kajarii: Linux for the blind user
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0084/hpr0084.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-07 11:20:32

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Ho, Ho, Ho.
And now please read this down below.
Thanks door on.
Comments of appreciation for the use of the
opportunities from the
Hello, can I speak to David?
David's right here.
This is David, I'm speaking to him.
Yeah, you got that right.
Okay, David, I'm recording you, is that okay?
That's great.
You can do that.
That's perfect.
Okay, I have already introduced you as David Churchill.
Yeah, you can.
You actually press for the last name, right?
I've got four key.
Okay.
And you are a Linux user from Canada, right?
Is it British Columbia?
Yeah, British Columbia.
Okay.
And I had been trying to get in touch with you for some time now.
Yeah.
We keep screwing up the sick phones and things and blah.
Anyway.
I'm here now.
I am finally glad to have you on the show.
And how long have you been using Linux, David?
Oh, best.
I've been using some values.
Eight years ago.
Eight or nine years ago.
Because I started when I was after I graduated from high school.
So here.
Okay.
And before that, did you, were you a Windows user?
I was a boss hack pretty much.
Okay.
Now, what I'm curious about, you go ahead.
Next mode is cool.
Okay.
What I'm curious about is really what brought you to Linux?
Or what got you to use Linux the first time?
Well, okay.
It goes back there.
So I was sort of sitting and I was shaking a bunch of computer programming classes.
And I needed to do a bunch of crap and windows.
But I wasn't very good at it.
So I ended up doing a bunch of stuff.
I learned that I'm boss mode.
And my teacher was like telling me that I was stupid to be even trying to use graphical mode.
Because I don't think that way.
You should try Linux.
So what's that?
So he told me what it was.
I was going off and grabbed the CD.
And at that time, where the TTY wasn't running against the Star or CDs.
And speak up hadn't been got working yet.
So I had to go off.
Actually, I thought that she did.
But we have German distribution.
She's used to be quite popular.
So I thought that thing.
Because I have support.
Okay.
Actually, I know they call us by it.
Anyway, so I did the support.
And then I used that for a bit.
And once I got bootstrapped, I figured out what I was doing.
Because you have to understand that I had my prior Linux experience.
Okay.
So I did do install that stuck in a chat front.
And I was like, where do you know?
So I started reading the box to learn how to craft.
And I got familiar with everything.
And then I decided to get some facts from what I was doing.
I would go try like software.
So I decided to do that.
Where do you start from?
And I started switching to.
Then something told me about the Linux from scratch projects.
So I decided to do that.
I just got to be able to learn about Linux.
So I'm going to build myself that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So.
And I'm not, I'm not mentioned it.
And I'm sure it's obvious that anybody that's hearing this now,
and you mentioned Braille support and some of the things you did,
that you're a blind Linux user.
But yeah, I don't see the same thing.
Okay.
Is that way since birth?
Is that right?
Yep.
Yep.
Okay.
So.
But you've been programming since high school.
Is that right?
Hmm.
A little bit before that actually.
Because my mom had a lab for 86.
So.
Okay.
You know, you screw down with all the basic craft.
Which I don't remember any of.
Yeah.
Because.
Well.
I've been doing so much other languages.
But that's completely gone after it.
Yeah.
You know.
Okay.
In addition to Linux from scratch, you use Gen2, right?
I was talking just yesterday.
I think that.
I think that.
I think that.
I think that.
I think that Gen2 has three of everything worked out.
I might.
I might put that on my power PC box test.
But.
I thought it was really important.
Okay.
Do you.
Do you use Slackware anymore?
You mentioned Slackware.
Yeah, I do.
I have it on my.
Well.
But.
I have.
That.
That was.
I.
I actually.
I think that.
I don't know.
I.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
I.
connect while you were still in.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
The unstable bedding.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
There were some stuff when I did an update.
Okay.
So I have to...
I don't know.
I probably was...
I'll probably...
What I probably do is either...
put 60 plus the bedding away.
I don't know.
I generally like to not have too much animals in there.
So I generally...
I generally...
better with things.
It doesn't matter what distribution is.
It really is because by the time I get done with it,
it doesn't look like anyone's distribution to start with.
Okay.
I was going to ask you about that as a...
Did you have a preference?
Is there one distribution that is...
I usually go for...
I usually go for runs, but I use you to hack.
Okay.
Use you to hang out because...
I like things a certain way.
I'm very picky if somebody wants to tell me that...
something works better with the point.
Right.
For instance, are you going to experience something
or if you close the lid on your laptop,
that assumes that you want to wipe that again again?
And since I usually work with my laptop,
the lid closed, and when it was copied out,
but when I'm doing stuff,
because I have no need to look through the display.
Yeah.
So if I'm just listening to something,
and just flip the lid down,
so I don't have to display sucking power.
Yeah.
That's probably just one example of...
the ways that accessibility is...
maybe an afterthought?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All the time.
People always skimp on accessibility.
I mean...
The way that it usually gets implemented is that...
Well, known for instance,
doesn't even start accessibility until you wire in.
Yeah.
Unless you're on salaris,
because someone doesn't bother to test.
Basically, somewhere around the worker's stuff,
and they don't bother to test anything,
except for wire.
These days.
So it basically is a big mess.
For people that are trying to use mix colors,
like myself,
but it's better than any other colors from where I can tell.
What is Orca?
Because I mean...
That may mean...
That's the screen reader that comes with the name desktop.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's the...
Suppose we were going to make it work with other true kids,
but it's basically a big mess.
So I don't know how far we'll get with that.
Is...
Is Genome that...
Or that Orca...
Is it so tied in the Genome that you use?
Genome is the desktop or...
You pretty much have to.
Unfortunately,
because it depends on some deprecated Genome stuff
that is no longer...
being used by these dumb needed minutes.
And with the problem,
there's not so much that Orca requires the Genome stuff,
it's just that there's something called at-speed,
which is...
It's about AT-SPI.
It's this excessive battery,
technology, service,
provider, infrastructure,
everything is what it stands for.
Is this part of Genome, too?
Yes, that's real problem,
because it is...
is parking in Genome.
Orca only depends on...
Orca only depends on that,
and some other stuff that the problem is that...
is so stuck on Genome,
that there's no battery,
that it will move,
that you know,
and dependencies,
so you ran up and started the full desktop.
You know, I would be perfectly happy
if I just had a terminal
and that could actually keep one or two due applications.
Yeah.
Actually, like, one due application,
because they don't talk like...
The only thing I really care about
is, like,
I'm kind of forgetting that websites,
that absolutely require
some weird scripting thingy.
Okay.
This Orca,
the screen reader functionality,
is it full functional?
I mean...
Yeah, you can use it for pretty much everything.
It's slow as hell, though,
because...
Well,
because right now,
they're in the process
of making it use D-Bus to talk to everything.
And so, D-Bus has already overloaded
because everything on the system,
including how,
you know,
the KDE apps,
and whatever they have,
that you may have,
is all using D-Bus, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then everyone knows.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then what Orca will use D-Bus,
and...
Just to figure it out,
we can...
a re-event that happens on a screen
gets sent to Orca.
So, if you flip to another window,
there's a focus change event
that gets sent,
there's, you know,
an event saying
another window got popped up.
There's about,
like,
and then that's how
there are plenty of events
that happen just
because you went to another window.
Wow.
And then if you press the key,
there's a bunch of keyboard events
that you press,
that the key got pressed down,
and then the key got released,
and then that fires off
some processing
via USB to see whether
that was an Orca key,
and if it was,
then it does stuff.
So basically,
what we're doing
is they're handling D-Bus
with thousands more events
than they would have
if there weren't using D-Bus.
And it basically means that
if you ever get a D-Bus crash,
you'll take out
the whole best stop
and the screen reader
and have absolutely no idea
what's going on in your machine,
unless you had some sort of
console access.
Wow.
Yeah,
it does sound like
it was a...
Yeah, well,
it's an access fit.
Yeah, the problem is,
you can eventually
cite the people
designed the access software.
They don't depend on
so it ends up happening
as they don't need
to use it,
but it breaks,
it's not a big deal.
Yeah, and I have
a whole lot of your people,
they take the attitude
that if your sound server dies,
it's not critical.
Well,
if I'm sitting there
with a laptop,
and my sound server dies,
and I have no serial clue
on my laptop,
and no USB brothers play,
turn it up to the laptop,
then I have no idea
of what just happened.
Yeah.
Because you just killed
my sound server.
So,
I mean,
people think about the stuff
that
I would say to be a coach
that no program
should ever crash
under any circumstances,
and if it does,
it's a bug somewhere.
Yeah.
Unfortunately,
we have some people who
they go,
oh, every crash is random,
and we're not going to
choose,
and we don't work to fix the bug.
And so,
this is the other reason
why I use it like this,
because the colors
really stay down,
you know,
stuff doesn't crash.
Okay.
That.
Are you doing that?
It is there.
And do you use Linux,
because it is best suits
your needs?
Yes.
Yes.
Because you can't.
You can't customize
every instrument
for a proprietary operating system.
It's not possible.
You can't decide that,
oh, I don't want the
configuration files
to move metaphor
in other ways.
Or whatever.
I would imagine that
there's a large amount
of customization
that you have to do
when you install a distribution.
Oh, yeah,
there's stacks.
Like, because most of
the installers don't
come with a screen reader
for one thing.
So, the first thing
you end up doing is
either installing
ground TVI,
or my ground was
better just
cracked out, so
I don't have that
installed right now.
But, you know,
ground was better.
That'll be the first thing
you install.
And you have to make sure
that you have screen access.
It's getting a little
easier if you decide to use
the ground,
because the screen would
have come with the ground,
so distributions usually
should be.
Yeah.
So, you that usually
gets installed.
But then, you know,
if you want
console access,
you have to run,
speak out for ground TVI
or something similar.
Or, well, speak out
to respond,
but it's a kernel patch,
so you have to patch
a kernel and kernel
where there's some
bugs and speak out
that kind of
don't really want
to put it in your kernel
if you could have
read it.
Wow.
So, I think,
if there's been
effects, so,
you know, it's not
too bad.
I can see that,
obviously a
very talented
computer user.
I mean, you're a programmer,
I mean, I,
I.
I can't
check all by that
by saying that
I haven't actually
lived in the
large projects because
it will make
anything.
Thehuhel I was going to
wait.
I've been
it.
So there isn't much
point.
It's not to say that I
have an 하지만
I typically would build stuff and see that if it's an application that I use often, like
M-failure, for instance, or work out or whatever, if it's something that I use regularly,
I just build it from the development tree because I don't care if it breaks because I
like that to fix it.
And then I can report a bug or whatever, but.
This won't be the first stupid question I'm going to ask if it's not the second already.
I'm not really worried about it because I have a long history of this anyway, but.
You can always talk to a question and I will see you.
I think one of my questions is, I mean, you're obviously an experienced Linux user, experienced
computer user, and you know, you weigh around.
In their distribution, Linux from scratch, in your distribution, think of that you as
a cyclist computer user can install without any hand holding for like a better term.
Pretty much, most of them you can, as long as you can get a distribution really like art
for instance.
Well, I needed to draw something on my laptop real quick because a good friend of mine decided
to break my package database on my laptop when I was testing Gen 2.
So I didn't have time to compile that against that.
So someone suggested that I try works Linux.
Well, it turns out that there ain't no media.
Doesn't have a screen reader on it.
So what I had to do was I grabbed a GRMI RICD, which is a.
GRMI is a Linux distribution for weak specically.
It's a devian, it's a devian RICD that has.
Development tools, rescue tools, basically anything that you would need at the concert.
That's some like basic random managers and crap.
But it's a like grab or something?
The GRMI?
No, it's a German word.
Okay, because I've never even heard of that.
Well, I know you wouldn't, but if you go to GRMI, I don't know if it gets there.
I only heard about it because someone on this.
Someone on this pickup list said they were using it.
I don't know.
What the heck?
I've never heard of that distribution.
So I wouldn't look at it.
But yeah, it's a rescue city.
And it fits on a USB stick.
But you need a, you need, I think, a two gig USB stick for the full version.
But they actually have three versions.
Well, they're actually a four version.
You can count the 64-bit ones.
They've got X86 and X86 64 versions.
And they've got like a small and a medium and a large version.
The small one is like 50 megabytes and doesn't include that much.
And then the medium ones and the bigger ones and the large ones.
Well, I usually get, which has all the development tools and everything.
So basically, if my laptop is completely high-risk, I'm not completely high-risk,
because I can pop this thing.
And then you get that.
All these commas will speak up from the LTPR among other things.
Okay.
Because it's for 50 megabytes.
So if you're not familiar with the command line, you probably don't want to bother.
Because you've been got the medical officer.
So if you're wondering if people that has to have X working immediately,
it might not be as familiar as that, but it's not everything you're ever going to need.
Like you can, I use them when I get a blank hard disk.
I put it in and do a little system furniture.
Okay.
So would you consider essential?
I mean, yeah, you've got to have a rescue CD around, especially if you're,
especially if you're, you've got a rescue CD because it's something happened with your mind box.
Like if your sound server crashed.
Yeah.
And you have no idea about that.
And you've got to be.
You can at least do it with the rescue CD.
And then to figure out where you're at, we'll look at the logs and go, oh,
and server crashed.
All right.
Okay.
You've just, you've ended up repeating, but at least you've got yourself to a usable state.
And you can, you know, file a bugger.
You can do something because you do what is going on.
And it's not like, you know, the other thing you can do is you can,
the other thing it has, which I haven't seen a lot of YCDs have,
the reason I was able to put art on the laptop that has no serial work, for instance,
is because it has software speech, but the other thing it's got is that you can SSH
into a live CD by just typing.
There's a couple of things you can type up a boot prompt.
One of them is you can tell it to start SSH doing for the password in.
So that means that the CD is the thing that's finished building,
you can SSH through that machine.
Okay.
Which is extremely useful because then if you don't,
then if you need to put some of the bugs from somewhere, you know,
you have an SSH thing.
So it's cool.
And then you can set the work on your big box or whatever,
and not have like the other software speech or the laptop or whatever.
Okay.
If you're at some point again.
Now, if you should do that,
but you should have like a little SSH thing.
So if you can't actually start the installer with a screen reader,
then you don't really care because I've got firm machine stuff.
You know, if it had a SSH server,
I could start it through time, then that would help.
Okay.
And it's not something that's difficult to do in your use update.
Because even my router wants to have open web reality and the router stuff.
I think we've mentioned this before.
You and I, we've talked previously.
Is that a...
Is that a link system or a Buffalo?
No, it's a link system.
Okay.
It's a WRT54G.
Okay.
That's...
Okay.
And it sits there and reads my traffic.
All right.
Now, I was going to ask you a question that...
Yeah.
You've mentioned deb in.
You've mentioned Slackware.
I'm writing some scratch.
GRML.
You've mentioned Arch.
Are there any distributions that are just...
Bizmo failures when it comes to...
Any distribution that doesn't have some text mode where I'm installing it is the failure.
Okay.
Because...
That way...
Well, even Shabura, for instance, they don't have SSH access,
but they have a tone mode in style that you can do.
Okay.
So, you can still get the text mode in style if you want to.
I don't...
I haven't actually...
Little with Shabura.
I'm like though...
I haven't...
Because...
I've seen that there are rather works distribution for what I need.
So...
That's good.
That's almost...
Wow, that they don't have SSH built-in at the boot prompt.
Because I know even DAMM small remix has that, I think.
Yeah, right.
Most of them have...
But what happens is most of the distributions,
there's no way to get SSH access.
That's like to punch in something on the boot loader,
the command line, and get SSH access.
Yeah.
It's cutting edges.
You can't tell when the machine's booted, right?
Yeah.
You know, unless it either plays the sound when it's booted or something,
you don't know.
So, you just sit there and...
And ping the box and wait until it's up and whatever,
you know, punch in the SSH,
until it comes up.
That, yeah.
So...
But in the most distributions,
if they could make themselves a lot more accessible,
you just either turn with the screen reader by default, somehow.
Like, it means you does this,
but they do it in a weird way.
And you know, if the punch in about five or six things are...
Like, they can have those graphical boot menu,
and you have to punch in a bunch of sequences of keystrokes,
and it's kind of awkward.
Yeah.
You can make work, but it's...
They should...
They should just make it so that you can type something
at the boot prompt and how to do what you need.
Well, are things getting better with Linux and...
In your major?
I don't even know where.
They're better than they were.
But the problem is that we have now is that...
Well, the speakers start to be in shift.
They know where the problems are with that,
and they're fixing them.
The problem is it's got some issues now that have to deal with...
It could or not have them.
It's a thread for speakers.
And so, speak up is sucking the CPU for...
Like, several milliseconds at a time,
and not letting processes have it.
But that is working on and going to be fixed.
So, that's better than it was.
Because, well, if there was a time for a while,
where you'd run, you'd crowd the lowest kernel,
and then you'd patch, speak up, and it wouldn't work.
Because the kernel people have changed stuff all the time.
Like, every letter a week.
They've changed some kernel in their face.
Yeah.
So, what they're working on now is trying to let speak up into my run.
And if they do that, then it'll be easier to get people to have to.
To get people to have textbook access.
As far as they can understand,
it was a time when it looked really promising
that they're running into the same kernel.
You know, people we can't seem to get the people we care
and not for bad performance and stability to make it work.
Now, I was going to ask you about that.
I mean, the community, the accessibility need community.
Is it large enough to bring the attention that this needed?
I mean, how does, well, I don't know.
It's a lot of the speak up users.
Well, first of all, the problem with any Google oriented system
is you attract people coming from Windows.
Yeah.
And Windows users have any developmentation.
Don't know anything about bug reports.
They don't know anything about meaningful feedback.
So, the problem is that, you know, we have a large,
and the other thing that you run into is
there's a significant group of blind people that have.
They've gone blind later in life.
In fact, most blind people have been born with some side
or whatever, and then they went blind later in their life.
And so, a lot of times you're having older people.
Some of them have multiple disabilities.
And so, you have a bunch of users who expect things to just work
and don't give people feedback when it doesn't work.
Yeah.
And then you have a bunch of sighted people programming
like ORCA, which they need to be there because obviously
we can't read the screen if the screen is busted.
Yeah.
So, you need to have people working on those,
but they fall into the trap as well.
It works well enough.
But they don't actually need to use it regularly.
Yeah.
So, you know, the extra platform, they don't understand
that you want to have speech or ball feedback as quickly
as you can get it.
Yeah.
You post-tomach fades or just like everybody else is.
Just like everyone else.
You wouldn't like it if when you pressed a key,
you had to wait 10 seconds before the impact of your key press
showed up on the monitor.
Yep.
Exactly.
And that's what I'm getting, sometimes when I use ORCA,
like ALX.
You get the way the screen readers work is you press keys
to review certain parts of the screen.
So, somebody will say something on IRC
and they'll be off in some other console here that they said.
But it's been about five messages came in and some,
you know, reviewing all these messages that came in on IRC.
And so, if I want a certain one up, I'll hit one of the reviews here.
Then it might take, you know, five or ten seconds.
Wow.
Before I actually hear whatever it was that I wanted to hear.
And then if a bunch of events came in between the time
that that key press got spoken, then they all get queued up
and I get handled with about, you know,
a bunch of speech that I didn't necessarily want or it was.
Yeah.
It's, you know, and if it would just be responsive in the first place,
it would be hard.
Hardware can fix them.
Can you help me?
I know.
It's not hard.
It's not that hard, the thing because the box that I'm seeing
that issue on is that it's some, you know,
one of those dual core things.
It's got, it's an SMP box, and it's got, you know,
a couple of gigs of well.
So I say, you know, it's not hard to push it to you.
I mean, unless you want to say that you need a hard core
of well-excessibility.
Yeah.
I mean, the thing is not slow.
I usually want to believe that when I don't do that,
it's like a fast box.
I built it so I could have a fast box to build by all the fast crap.
You know, I don't want it to take 30 minutes to build GCC.
So it takes about 10, you know.
So it's not that the box is slow.
It's just that the way that the atmosphere and the condom stuff
is implemented.
Wow.
I've even heard you talk about that in general
about the condom stuff being slow before.
Yeah.
So that's, I think what we're seeing is that
accessibility is exacerbating a problem with hardware
because what happens is any time you have accessibility,
you put a load on the system because you're sending info
over time somewhere else.
And there's no way to disconnect the video cards
and now instead of just sending one settle info to you now,
sending two sets of information.
So I think that's part of it,
that it could be actually a little better.
If they reduce the world time program and they're something
they probably could get it down,
but the problem is that...
So installing a real time kernel doesn't help the situation
or what...
You know, because if you can say real time kernels,
then once somebody knows how to make the scheduler work.
Okay.
You know, you have to actually,
like Paul Faudier, for instance,
knows about real time stuff.
So it's very responsive,
but the problem isn't in the sense
of where the problem is in accessibility infrastructure.
You know, it should be the other real time thread.
It should...
What you could do that with the stock kernel
and you actually don't need any special real time threads
because the real time stuff is already
in the latest kernels I believe.
Now, you've mentioned GNOME repeatedly,
or GNOME, ever how it wants users to say...
I mean, really, sure.
I think it's GNOME.
Yeah, yeah.
Is that kind of hard for you to say?
Yeah, it is.
But you've not mentioned KDE.
Because they have no accessibility to speak of that on their network.
That's...
I won't use the word that's the process, man.
I guess it does.
I mean...
I just wonder how...
I mean, they've been around longer than GNOME.
I mean...
Yeah, you would think that they would,
but as far as I know,
there's no way to read a QC application with a screen reader.
That's why.
I know they have...
You know...
Yeah, I think...
It goes up to me.
I would be happy with something like...
I was reading a window mail.
Here's a Linux.com email.
You were there.
And they had an article and something called ION,
which is basically...
from what the article said,
it was basically a really minimalist window manager
that had like almost no buttons,
but you just did everything with the keyboard.
Yeah, of course.
And the only thing that starts up is like a little terminal.
Yeah.
But that would be a perfect window,
because most of what I do is from a terminal anyway,
except when I need to look at weird script-y bit websites,
or, you know, if somebody came out with...
No, I used a few times.
It would be just because I was lazy
and I wanted to see if it worked.
Yeah.
But, and there's...
You know, there's...
But outside of that,
you know, there's not really anything...
But I really...
You know, to everything,
you should put in a shelf.
You know what you're doing,
but there's not really much point in using
anything else, really.
Yeah.
Unless you have to, for some reason.
But, like...
Like a headphone,
you said you've used it from a GUI.
Yeah.
And there's a console mode,
but I just wanted to see if the GUI
won't work with orchestra.
Okay.
So, I mean...
I guess what I don't understand is how orchestra works.
If...
I mean, do you use a mouse with a GUI?
Yeah.
You use a keyboard,
and there's a cursor,
and it...
If you...
Go ahead.
So, what you do is,
on the...
Like your screen,
you're going to review cursor, right?
Which is a cursor that is sort of only...
It doesn't actually do anything
to the pointer on the screen.
It...
It's just...
The screen you do keeps track
of where it thinks
that you are on the screen.
Okay.
But it has nothing to do with...
The way that works
it implements it for instance,
everything on the screen
is an object.
So, you're basically going through
this object,
the tree.
Right.
So,
and then,
when you want to become something,
then there's a...
There's a key on the keypad
that you press that
simulates the fact that you click
your mouse there.
Okay.
It sends...
It basically sends the click event
to whatever program
it was you're using.
Okay.
So, because I can't physically use a mouse
for obvious words.
Yeah.
Because you have no idea
where exactly the pointer is.
Exactly.
So, that's how they implement it.
And, of course,
in text cards,
as you don't need a mouse.
Yeah.
Because everything is just,
you know,
so you just review the screen.
And, you know,
you can...
That's basically where you need
those just commands.
And then, usually,
move them to, like,
the keypad
because nothing else is using that.
So.
Okay.
What applications?
I mean,
you've mentioned Firefox.
You've mentioned Orca,
which I don't really
because of application or...
No, it's a screen.
It's a screen.
Okay.
Okay.
So, whatever applications,
I'm not necessarily talking about
just for, you know,
for you to do your
day-to-day computing.
But, once you can't
live without, for whatever reason.
So, you can't live without
M-Player,
because it plays everything.
Yeah.
You don't like DLC?
Well, I guess...
You don't see how it's a command line,
do you?
I don't know anything about it.
I haven't read it.
Okay.
And, I've got an M-Player
to play pretty well everything.
So, that's just all I've used.
Yeah.
It has a very rich command line
of the in-player dough.
Yeah.
I mean, it's about DLC myself.
You can basically make it
do everything for the command line,
including stuff like
this video's
and everything else.
Yeah.
I like this app,
but it lets you set the video
I've put to know.
Okay.
So, you're not wasting
your CPU sending video
to the video card,
but it's not really
being used for you.
Well, I mean,
this is the one,
you know, it's something
I would never think of,
because it's not part of me.
No, you would never use that.
Yeah.
But, you know,
I would use that
because someone would send me
like a, you know,
a send video,
or rather,
that I want the audio
from, but the picture
is not how it takes me.
So, I just turn it off.
Yeah.
So, I use that.
I use some,
of course,
you have to have a text,
no red,
but as you're aware,
so I usually use e-link
for that.
Okay.
And then I've got,
I use
NMH for getting my mail,
which is,
the oldest mail system
on the planet, I swear.
What, where is it again?
NMH.
NMH.
Yeah, we've been
message and door.
Okay. So, I don't know.
I've heard of that one.
Well, Davin used to install one
that was, uh,
began with an e,
I'm showing my,
like, supreme ignorance,
right now.
No, what now?
What was, uh,
NMH?
Yeah.
Uh, e-mail per rub.
Uh,
the NMH.
It was email handler.
I'm his e-mailH.
I don't know.
I mean, it could be,
I'm not sure.
It could be e-mail.
That's an e-max.
That's an e-max.
I'm done for the NMH.
I believe.
Okay.
Okay.
But I'm, I usually use the e-mail,
so.
Okay.
It is, it's via what you,
what you grew up on,
what you learned,
or what?
Well, actually,
I wasn't really sure.
I was like,
well, I started using
what it actually had like,
you know,
nano and keep going
those type of things.
Yeah.
And because I'm trying to
write code,
you know,
let it, let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
and,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
let it,
and,
and...
Let me see.
So network
level and
again,
and what each two
I found some software that I didn't, I worked pretty well, but I decided that I didn't quite like it.
I was going to mix it, but I didn't, but I was going to mix it because I didn't speak English and post-pulsar or whatever.
So I basically went to my friend and I said, can I get a feedback?
And he said, yeah, you can get a feedback, didn't he?
He looked me up with a text copy as well.
That's the K and all of the work.
You know, the big, the original.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm going to assume you already know how to program.
Yeah.
Could we, if you can, if you can, not us it?
Well, if you have a quickly show, you better be there in attention.
But is that, and then he also found a book of thinking and see post-pulsar, which is available on them?
So I grabbed those and I started hacking and stuff, and then I asked them, well, what am I going to get a decent editor?
Yeah.
I mean, surely there's got to be stacks of text editors for a remix, right?
And so then I got into the whole BI and E-max rule.
You know, pick one and see what we like.
And actually, I tried both of them for that.
But I decided that I liked the idea because you don't have to know less to customize your editor.
It takes less time to experience, I mean.
Yeah.
You like that.
I mean, there's control, X and all X and all the combinations just about throughout.
Especially if you type DuVork.
It's about DuVork, my hands, clearly.
Yeah.
And I've never messed with a DuVork keyboard.
No, I did only because I have to type lots because I don't, you know, wear everything.
Yeah.
So I have to type lots.
And I don't have to type with that type as well.
So I really don't want to work my fingers.
Okay, look at that.
Well, I don't want to get a question about the backpack.
No, I think I learned on E-max because I think at the time when I started using this
is Red Hat 39 or around there.
I wonder if that was the default editor with E-max.
No, that usually.
I mean, that's the one I ended up using now.
I don't know why.
But it may just be.
Yeah.
So what happened to me was that my friend, my friend is one of these people.
That was right.
He is from the VI side of the editor framework.
So the guy that gave me the C-book or everything, he was like, well, you should learn VI.
And I'll explain it here.
And so he might have just taught me how to use this thing.
Yeah.
And if you have somebody to explain it to, it's perfectly logical.
Yeah.
I think what people get.
I think what people get on from what bothers people is that nobody explains how it works
to them.
Yeah.
Like, people need to understand what it means to be in command loads and what it means to
be an insured load.
But what I like about it is that VI or some clone of it is available everywhere.
That's right.
I usually use them.
But if I go to my work, I don't have the same editor, even though it's running busy box.
Yeah.
I don't know if you go on the work, but a bunch of me commands.
That's why I learned.
Yeah.
It's been a long time.
Yeah.
But it also teaches you things like everything, everything, everything.
Yeah.
Because they all use the same commands.
So you're having to learn, like, a stack of other things.
Yeah.
And you don't.
And it does everything you need.
I mean, it's pretty well every editing feature that you maximize and probably some of it.
You might have to write separate applications for it.
Because I just use that because that works for me.
And it's, you know, I think easy to hack.
Configuration files.
I think easy to read.
So I don't have to learn less.
Okay.
Now, you mentioned Orca being a screen reader.
But what is the spates synthesis system you use?
Well, we're going to try and have a better talk at a TV, which is a hardware synthesizer that plugs into a serial port.
Okay.
And I like that because it speaks really quick.
Okay.
Now, is that, is that run Linux?
Is that something that's like an echo?
No, it's just a box that I don't even think it really has an operating system.
Basically, you send text out the serial port and it speaks it.
Okay.
And it's got like some ROM that controls pronunciation and other things.
But it's just a little box that you try to use at a serial port.
It's got a speaker and a volume control.
Okay.
And it had for a jack and you just flip the volume control on them.
How do you use any of the software solutions that come with Linux?
Yeah.
I usually use e-speak for a software synth because it's a much responsive of the software synth.
It doesn't speak fast enough, but it's still.
Okay.
It sounds about to be used a little bit, not as quick as I would like.
What about that one?
What are some of the others?
One of the things like there's like fast development, flight and...
Oh.
I think there used to be unblown places as well.
I'm not sure if those were kicking around still.
But fast development is just too slow and too big, it could be useful.
Yeah.
But you need that.
It works great for what you do because you're not actually using it for a screen reader.
Exactly.
It's a novelty for me.
Yeah.
Well, it's cool because it's a human sounding voice.
Yeah.
And that's...
I've wanted to say it was an embelle voice, but it's not.
I think it's one of the Arctic voices.
I think it's one of the voices.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something like that.
Yeah.
But what I noticed is that when you get human sounding voices, they start more computer memory
and they don't respond this quick.
So...
I mean, when you're talking about...
When you're talking about daily use, flight generally tend to go for speed before or after pronunciation
or other things.
Because a lot of the pronunciations consistent, you don't really care.
Yeah.
And double pod gets it right most of the time and you speak gets it right most of the time.
Well, I would imagine it is a lot like...
For sighted people, it's been shown that they can...
And they'll be the same with Braille too.
I have no idea about that.
But I'm sure your fingers recognize letters.
A lot like maybe something...
This is complete ignorance on my part.
Some people's eyes recognize words.
But it's been shown you can leave a certain amount of letters out of a word.
And the human eye can still...
Or the brain can still recognize what the word is.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, yeah.
And...
That actually the little...
The little Braille reading works is...
You actually end up reading every word twice because you're...
You're moving your hands across the one.
Like you...
You put both of your hands on...
Like if you had a Braille book or a Braille display that was big enough...
Usually this isn't so sure of a Braille display because you only have one line of Braille here.
You're moving...
You can choose on the Braille display to move the Braille line up and down the screen or whatever.
But if you read in the book...
What you do is you put both of your hands...
You don't actually read with your thumb or your little finger because they're...
They're shorter and little out of the way.
They're not really little lines with other fingers.
So you just use the other three fingers on your...
On your both your hands and...
What you didn't happen...
So if you start out reading with your right hand...
And then your left hand sort of follows behind it to keep track of what...
Why you happen to be on.
Then when you get to the end of the line...
You just move your...
Your hands down and continue.
So the side effect of that is that you end up reading every one twice.
But over time you learn to ignore the output.
The second bunch of output.
Unless you read it.
Yeah.
So if you read over a word and you didn't get it...
The first time you'll get it.
The second time.
Okay.
Which means that it's extremely refreshing.
And you can read very quickly.
And, you know, like you say, if you read out a couple of letters...
Well, you can take it up.
You can take it up.
Fine.
I was going to ask you something.
This is an extremely interesting conversation for me.
And I'm listening and forgetting what I was going to ask you next.
Take notes.
Yeah.
Hard to do while I'm operating the steering wheel here.
Well, you could take notes before you found it.
Oh, yeah.
I did.
Actually, I've got my index card in my hand.
Oh, okay.
Screen reader.
That's what I was going to ask you about.
You said a Braille reader reads text one line at a time.
Is that what you say?
The Braille display.
The Braille display.
Which is basically what it is.
It's a line of...
It's supposed to sit on your keyboard.
Like, usually I have a line of a bunch of Braille cells.
And then above that, there would be like a flat surface that you can put your keyboard on.
And so, when you slide your hands off the keyboard,
because the one disadvantage of Braille over speech access is that you have to take your hands off the keyboard to read it.
And that's what that review key is for?
So, that's why there's buttons on the Braille display.
So, you can move the display around the screen without taking your hands off the display.
Okay.
So, like you're using Braille, you don't have to reach up and hit the number of pad keys on the keyboard to review stuff,
because those usually control speech access.
And then you control the Braille from the Braille display.
Because you're just going to move the Braille display around you.
You want to move your hands as close to you as possible.
So, it's quicker.
That's why IRC doesn't work so well if you're going to get a Braille display.
But you can do it because Braille PTI is nice.
It has a free speech that will make the Braille display keep the same screen image that it had to not bother to make Braille PTI
why not update what would be on the screen.
So, you have that time to go back and figure out what was there.
And then you can unfreeze it when you output.
Which means that you can.
Because there was a time where I didn't actually have a hardware synthesizer which I used,
or exclusively for about a year and a half.
But I actually quite good at it.
But I'm still good at it.
But the system of the Braille display is good.
Because I like having a display for programming.
It's much better.
Because I don't have to listen to stuff like.
You mean less credit, right?
Right.
Less credit.
I send you.
When you say you have a display and you talk about freezing.
Yeah.
That doesn't update.
That's an essence of page.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's basically whatever a screen follows.
Okay.
So you can go back and review.
I think that's what I was trying to grasp is a Braille reader or whatever.
Yeah.
You have a Braille display.
You can.
But why do you have a Braille P2Y with the only screen reader that I've seen that actually free.
Well, that's you free as well.
But most of the other ones don't want you to do that.
But I was wondering, other than a debugger, you know, how you would go back and review code
that you had written.
But I think I understand now.
You have review keys for speech and Braille that you can do that.
And the review keys work all the time.
So even if you weren't freezing the screen, you could still review stuff.
Okay.
It's just that the reason the free is the Braille was Braille is so that you don't have a bunch of,
because the way that the vegetable Braille works is your line of Braille is being refreshed
in real time, just like your display is, except that it's Braille.
Just like speech would be constantly reading the new stuff that can.
And the Braille display would be getting updated constantly.
So what I would mean is that as you were reading, if you're reading IRC,
the new stuff comes in, it refreshes right underneath your fingers the new stuff.
Which, if you know, which happens, of course.
What you've seen in the score on IRC, right, it happens so quickly that you have to wait
until it finishes it before you can properly read with scoring by.
So that, with the same effect, of course, happens when you have to wait until it's finished.
Okay.
If any.
Otherwise, it just sort of flips from under your fingers.
Yeah.
Are there any, I'm going to have a hard time forming this question.
I think there are any limitations.
The stuff you do every day, things that just don't work the way that you want them to.
I'm not, I'm not, I guess I'm, well, I'm thinking of it as something specific,
like, I don't know that.
I guess because I can't think of something that is, I should just let you tell me.
But, uh, no, what, like specific stuff?
I was thinking, you know, it is, and it's probably the stuff you have to get used to,
but as screen readers and stuff like, if you're programming,
and you've got syntax highlighting errors,
I think it's like a syntax highlighting this completely useless.
Yeah.
You pretty much have to read, you pretty much have to read, uh,
pretty much have to read it yourself.
What is cooler that is that, um, both work,
and speak up for the read indentation which does help.
Okay.
But, yeah, synthetic highlighting is kind of useless really.
Yeah.
I guess what it should do if it finds errors,
is it, you know, maybe it could beat percent.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I'm not a programmer.
You know, seeing as, to me, syntax highlighting is, is, I guess,
a reminder for societies or visual reminder.
Yeah.
You know, you know, you didn't need a brace here.
Yeah.
You didn't put a brace there.
You don't have to have the parentheses on this land.
Or you can put a seven colon or whatever.
And it usually hides the part that's the problem.
You know, you should be here, you know,
if it's going to be as excited and some useful way.
Yeah.
You know, I don't know whether it should,
well, I can put a percent on your status,
like on the bottom line of the screen way,
you'd be displaced.
And I must say it was good for that one because the screen really went read that,
because that part was shown, so it could say,
oh, you screwed up here.
Let me have a look at that.
I don't know.
There's some sort of message that says there's an error.
Python kind of does that accept that.
Where it shows you where in the line there's an error.
It doesn't actually.
It doesn't show it in some sort of visual way,
and I haven't been able to figure that out.
But, um, yeah.
They should definitely improve that, so I don't know.
Oh, sure.
Because I've never actually seen syntax highlighting something
to be less than what it's supposed to do.
Yeah.
And I sort of am, too, because I'm not a programmer.
I mean, I know what it is, and I've seen it.
Yeah.
You haven't needed to use it.
I haven't seen it that much.
Yeah.
Is it?
This is a lesson I like for JavaScript, though.
Yeah, I think so.
You like JavaScript, though?
Yeah, but I usually do.
Well, I don't, I think it's something you have to actually cut.
It physically turn on in a configuration file,
which I've never bothered to do, so.
It makes you really better to do, because you think it's useful.
It's not really good.
Well, I'm just not advanced enough to actually need it,
because I don't write the super wrong ones or something.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I-
I scratch an issue.
I don't want to get to it.
Self-crypt is just so many, you know, command-blind.
I mean, I don't really find syntax highlighting that useful anyway,
because what I've found out is that if it doesn't compile,
you know, you've got issues.
Yeah.
If it doesn't run, you know, you've got problems,
and then you've got a problem.
But sometimes it would be helpful if you had it on desk,
because then you're not doing like I am looking around
to run the ones that are three lines up from the one that-
Yeah.
That actually has caused me ever.
Not the comparison.
Yeah.
That's one thing that's completely useless.
The other thing is that I find annoyingness when people,
for whatever reason, decide they need a graphical food runner.
I hate that, because you're booting a lot of CD.
Well, I tend to get this, but I want to be in touch with a new lot of CD
that they just came out with.
I know whoever I pictured out, we filed a bug,
but we're using the Grub Bootloader.
I remember when they first went to that.
It struck me hard.
It's not obvious how it is that you're supposed to get Grub to let you
better than command-blind.
If you use a Rallow, which I use, they have Rallow System Speed 2.
Well, you know, system Linux or Rallow,
it comes up and you get a thing that says Boot Clone,
which I know a lot, because I've got the Double Talk to Speak.
The boot must have come up with serial report.
Yeah.
But, so you get attached to command-blind,
and you just type in your command-blind in a lot,
but turn off it goes.
But Grub doesn't let you do that,
because it comes up with a boot menu,
and you've got to select what you want,
and then figure out what entry you're going to edit.
Of course, you don't have a screen with your own operating system
ready with this point.
So you have no feedback at all.
So yeah, that's kind of annoying to you.
But you should just make it.
And really, that shows that all the letters
should have text command-blind,
but you can just, when they come up,
and they should have this beep too.
So people should put, like, I'm going to beep
and those letters in configuration.
Or you're having to ping a box to tell when it's come up.
You know, if you want to...
Yeah, because you don't know.
If it beeps at you, when the boot letter comes up,
and you know, okay, it's ready for you to type an input,
because you obviously can't read the boot code,
and it shows up on the screen unless you have a...
Unless you have a synthesizer plugin,
then the boot letter needs to be told
to send its messages out to serial report,
which is going to be useful for most people,
and I've synthesized your structural reports.
As a Linux user,
as far as the number of applications
or the size of the repos,
or just a lot of programs that are available to you.
It's great, because as long as it works,
it will command what you can use it.
Yeah.
Which is cool, because that's the problem
with different tool kits,
is that different tool kits,
do some of these different ones,
and you have to...
You even have to have a screen reader for each tool kit,
or you have to have a...
You have to have a different way of getting the information
from all the different new tool kits,
but there's only one way of getting info for a text console.
Yeah.
There's a text console,
there's a text console,
there's a text console,
and you can't really...
I mean, it's a text.
Yeah.
So it's easy, but once you have a screen reader
that can process text consoles,
they are pretty much requisite.
I know, you know.
All right, let's do this.
That's my mind, that TDE,
that there's no...
You should get on with that.
You should tell her,
why don't you keep on with the screen reader?
Because what's your health of ideal?
I would like to see the better one.
You could just pick a window manager
and one of the applications,
and not have to care.
Well, you could sit down in front of a computer.
I mean...
See how he else is, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, there.
What I do right now is
I just hold my laptop everywhere,
because, you know,
I don't need to worry about using
somewhere else as machine.
Yeah.
I might take you on their network care,
but, you know,
I might be a little bit out of health care,
because most people don't want to screen your other machine.
Ideally, it should be, like,
something similar to the way that Apple does it,
where, you know,
they do a lot of things badly,
but one thing that they get wide is that
they include a screen review
that works with free while everything
in the operating system.
And you just...
You go up to the machine
and you hit a keystroke
and you get a screen review.
Yeah.
So, you know...
Did Apple do it better than Windows?
Yeah.
So...
I mean,
you can just start
with a screen review,
or if that needed,
when you started to help at all,
if you have to.
Wow.
You can't even...
You can't even do that at all,
with Windows,
once you get somebody to make you,
like, an other candidate,
installed this,
can play where it goes,
right here.
And if you think too,
with Windows,
you can come with your operating system,
so you have to pay a little extra,
like, $1,000 to get a screen review program.
But...
Oh, it's just...
And then you have to pay,
like, maintenance fees to upgrade this.
It's just a big mess.
Wow.
So...
Are there...
And there's no way
that you can't hack this off-load a bit,
so...
Yeah.
Are there any...
Specialized Linux distributions,
made specifically for...
Sightless...
Thank you.
We're at one time.
I'm not sure if they're...
if they're discontinued.
If they're low,
I wouldn't use them either,
because I think they should just
include everybody.
Okay.
Like, they shouldn't need to be
specialized distributions.
Yeah.
Because it's...
It's not discrimination term.
I mean,
we're not any different than you,
anyone else.
I just...
I was...
They don't work.
Yeah.
So by far,
I didn't ask to be born that way.
So I don't want anyone thinking they need it.
You know,
some different device.
What...
I mean, all they should do
is make some device accessible.
But...
Like, for instance,
the single thing that they could do...
is if you buy an MP3 better,
it could have...
It's already got a function,
so it could beep when your battery is getting lower or something.
Yeah.
Instead of just flashing the light,
it could beep when you flick it on or whatever.
You know?
And that's not even a major accessibility feature.
All it would have to do is like,
you know,
many items are usually not accurate.
Yeah.
Which is something that Rockbox gets right.
They have pocket menus.
Yeah, they...
I've tried those out.
Which actually is kind of cooler
because that way you can make files
that will speak to your music files.
I couldn't play.
It doesn't support it, though.
But...
What is your current player?
Is that a curiosity?
Oh, I see.
It's one of those.
It's a creative thing.
Okay.
It was the best sounding one I could find.
Okay.
I was trying to find one of the audio you've heard once,
but I couldn't find one.
Yeah, I don't know it.
I think they still make them in cellum,
and I think there's a beep feature,
but I can't make it do anything.
I mean, I...
Yeah.
I've had a little fail.
Because...
I don't know whether I've heard you or not,
but I'm probably...
You may have guessed this already,
but I'm somewhat of an audio file, so...
Now, when you said you picked one that sounded the best, yeah?
Yeah, I kind of...
All of my music puts on my computer is in Q6 log,
because I don't have enough disk space for flags,
so I put it in Q6 log with this...
from my CDs.
I've recently bought my own version of my podcast at the Q5,
but I don't think it helps out.
I don't think it helps out.
Well, I could find it easy to...
For the way it's not critical or important.
Yeah.
For music Q5 is decent,
but Q6 is better exterior separation, basically.
So, if you're concerned about that,
I am, because I have an M-Audio
that I could call it in my big box at home,
so...
And I got beef fed,
but it keeps the speakers that sound pretty good.
They're not as...
I don't believe in buying others around,
because I just listen to music,
so it's having a surround sound for music,
because there's only two channels anyway.
Yeah.
I'll probably exact opposite.
I'm like an excessive personality person in some ways,
when I was in college,
my voice was like, I had 27 speakers.
I think I've got...
I think I've got...
It's really nice to hear that sound cooler,
because you can't hear anything except music.
Whenever you go to those music,
it's very loud and it's very cool.
But there's no exterior separation.
It doesn't help with audio quality.
No, it not a bit.
So, I would rather...
You have to have a supplement,
because the speakers are so small
that they don't produce bass very well.
Okay.
Speaking of music,
I could talk to you for another hour,
but then...
Yeah, you could.
They care would kick my kids out,
and I would get in trouble.
But the backpacks,
how long have you been playing those?
Why did you start playing them?
Because it was a difficult instrument to try,
and I like a change.
Okay.
So, I thought...
I played piano for a bit,
and I discovered that classical...
classical piano music sometimes,
so for some reason,
it has this hypnotic effect on me,
so I just decided that,
and I want to go to sleep.
I don't want to actually play the music, sir.
And, of course,
trouble with piano and other things is that
you get these people
conservatively people that are...
who would like to be obsessed,
so I also...
these people are obsessed with music theory,
and they're not so interested
in whether it sounds good,
they're interested in whether it's
explained exactly
what's on the page.
Yeah, yeah.
And if you know anything about music,
you don't always play exactly
what's written,
because you're interested
in playing about, you know,
whatever kind of music you're dealing with,
which means that you might have to add some expression,
you know,
whatever,
or the note,
a little longer than it was written,
so...
So,
everybody gets to tell you how to play the music.
Everybody memorizes the music,
so, because you can't
work a music stand to a bagpipe.
Everybody here memorize the music,
whatever instrument they're playing,
but with the bagpipe,
which required.
Yeah.
Because, so...
And if it's just a new musical,
it's insanely difficult to play,
or I like that.
Okay.
Because,
just when you think you've got it right now,
it's like,
you know,
it's like,
you know,
because,
just when you think you've got it right,
you haven't.
You need to go like,
try it again.
Which means,
there's only something you
should experiment with,
play with, or whatever.
But that said,
I mean,
if it makes some sort of sound
that could possibly be turned into music,
I would be interested in playing it.
Now,
what kind of music do you enjoy listening to?
I mean, I would guess a large variety,
but...
Yeah, pretty much everything.
Except that I don't consider...
I think that,
that rap should just have a
see-up at the beginning,
and...
Yeah, you know.
Because I don't actually...
I mean,
my way of saying that
is an art form
that it's definitely not music.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I don't like
your pop-type stuff
for the same reason,
because basically,
rap pet things
with a different drum machine,
and some extra synthesizers
that are wasting
computer memory drastically.
I mean,
if I would do something
creative with the synthesizers,
but every time you hear them,
it's always
this continuous music group.
Yeah.
That's the best piece
of rap music I've ever heard
in my entire life.
Yeah.
I don't know if you'd call it
rap or not,
but I think it was...
whatever name he was
choosing to use at the time,
Sean Puff,
Eddie Combs.
Yeah.
I saw it on Saturday Night Live,
and it was a Jimmy Page
and a orchestra
doing cashmere
with...
Oh, really?
...with Sean Puff,
Eddie Combs,
with alternate lyrics
that he was...
Are you three?
Yes, I am.
I'm trying to...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That would have been rude.
I was great.
It was this really aggressive
anger.
Well, I think that song
has got a bunch of cool
guitar stuff.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me page this.
You could listen to it.
I actually had somebody...
What the heck was it?
They got it.
They got it all.
It was just a bunch of
guitar stuff that my friend had.
And it was like...
Jimmy Page
and Jeff Beck
and Eric Clapton
doing guitar stuff.
How many?
And it was all like...
On the same album.
And then it was...
It was just a bunch of guitar
instrumental stuff.
It was...
It was crazy, man.
Yeah.
I think the best part of that song,
the Jimmy Page
Sean Puff,
Eddie Combsong, was the drums.
I...
Yeah.
I mean, you...
Who is who is drummer?
Who is the drummer?
Sean Ballon,
and...
I don't think it's...
He may have been.
I'm not sure.
But...
I find that a...
A link or a record...
Yeah.
First of all,
I'd like to read that.
I've got it.
You're like...
Yeah.
I've been going to listen
to pre-roll everything.
Yeah.
And I hear that.
Weird.
Because I usually just put
everything on the land.
Like...
Yes.
That's how I think.
Here.
Here's a bunch of music.
It can be a shuffle.
So basically,
what you end up getting is...
You get stuff like...
You get to play some pink
flake thing.
You get to play some bagpipes.
Yeah.
Did you get to play some bagpipes?
Yeah.
Did you get to play some bagpipes?
Yeah.
Did you get to play some bagpipes?
Did you get to play some bagpipes?
Yeah.
Yeah.
One music collection
sort of all over the world.
I like...
They're like radio pair
that is for that reason.
Because they play
a bit of everything.
Yeah.
A bit of everything.
Yeah.
They do.
They're like they have
version radio classic rock
string,
because it's all like
Q5 rock streaming.
Yeah.
And I just want like stream
ripper.
I can fire up my
radio pair that.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I don't know.
I've gotten all of it.
So it's coming on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
That's it.
Yeah.
You don't want to be
kind of learning.
You want to be kind of
doing a bit of stuff.
Yeah.
Or the other way around
it sounds like call.
I think that's it.
Down.
Good day.
Okay.
I thought you were talking
to me for a second.
No.
I was telling you it's
too.
Okay.
It's telling you it's
too.
It's telling me it's
too.
It's showing me it's
just sitting on the floor.
It's your down.
Is he, and gotten used to it?
No, he has.
I don't defend you in recording it when I get back.
Yeah, go ahead. I need to go forward. I need to go forward.
I need to go forward. I need to go forward. I need to go forward.
You got any good recommendations?
No, I don't have a, I don't have that USB one
that I was talking to you on the, um,
I mean, um, just a good,
but I don't have a good speaker. I don't have a good speaker.
A good cheap microphone. It's for vocal. I don't know about it.
Oh, yeah. It's the Shore P38,
or I probably get the number wrong.
Okay. But I'm going to have,
because when you don't speed,
you're taking a speed one,
there's good for like voice stuff.
But anything over about five feet away,
it starts to drop off,
and call it pretty good.
If you can send me something,
you don't mind people here, and I'll put it at the end of this podcast.
I mean, yeah, I'll do that. I can't do it next.
I don't have that bagpipe here.
Okay. That's fine. I mean, I,
when I get back, I can send you a record.
Okay. You said, man, I'll make it into this podcast.
You may make it into the next segment.
Okay. Broadcast, more play,
more than that, if you want.
Okay. So, David, I didn't record my practice anyways.
Okay. So, I'm going to raise the call
whether you suck it up.
Listen to it again.
Well, sometimes,
with my case in podcast,
it hasn't helped me any.
No.
But I'm going to have to go now,
but I want to make a podcast.
Yes, you should.
I don't know what the podcast is about though.
If you have to just say random,
whatever your podcast.
I would listen.
I would listen to anything.
Well, I wouldn't listen to just about anything, too.
So, I wouldn't listen to anything.
It was anything. I have to go now.
But was there anything that I should have asked you that I didn't?
I think you covered it pretty well.
Okay.
So, yeah, we'll have to see.
Let's see what kind of comments you get.
Yeah. I'm about to head you on again.
I don't think I've said that to anybody yet.
I think I could talk to you.
Anytime. Okay.
Anytime. That's perfectly acceptable.
I could work at my,
I could work at my issues though.
Yeah, the whole, the whole Canada.
I think it means I see.
Yeah, I think that the,
I think that the talks you stuff.
I mean, that's working eventually.
Okay. That I couldn't talk to,
that's your name,
that's your name, that's your excursion.
Yeah.
That's your excursion. I haven't played with that yet.
So, I have to. Yeah.
And that's something I need to keep doing.
So, with that,
see what we can get to work.
Shouldn't be too difficult,
but we're going to see how far we get with that.
Yeah, I should go right to ask you some microphone.
I found some decent headphones.
So, again, I'm going to find a decent microphone.
I got me some,
I can't say it.
Sandhouser is the German.
Cool. Yeah.
Those are good.
And because you both are really uncomfortable,
if you were them for long periods.
Yeah. And I don't want them for more than an hour,
but I'm going to come on the lawnmower,
because they,
well, you're right.
They're uncomfortable,
if you're not the one for a four-hour flight.
You know, the,
in flight editing,
the system starts.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You have to, you know.
So, I got these,
these headphones that are,
they just kind of clip onto the back of your ear.
Well, yeah.
And they just sit on top of your ear,
which is nice,
because they don't squish your ear.
I don't like that you're a couple.
You don't squish your ear.
Yeah.
Because those aren't very fun.
David, I'm sorry,
but I'm going to have to go.
I actually got a 10-year-old daughter
outside the window of my car.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, you can,
you got a big slice of podcast
recording,
and if people want to listen to my crummy voice
for another hour and a half,
they can do that.
That's fine.
This, this was very interesting
and fascinating,
and I thank you for your time, David.
No problem.
Very true.
Okay.
We'll talk to you in the RFC.
Okay, sure.
Okay.
Please.
You may as well tell people
what my mixer,
what I asked you is in case they
run a murder of the actresses.
Is it?
Is it you?
Do you pronounce it kajari?
I have no idea.
I go from the random name generation.
A.A.J.A.R.R.I.
All right.
R-I-R-R-R-I.
K.A.B.A.A.R.J.A.R.R.A.R.R.
K-A-B-A-A-A-A-R-I-R.
Okay.
Don't ask me how to pronounce it.
I was tired of having people take my nickname on RSC, so I was just like, okay.
You did keep down the land and you nick it, and we just go, we're just going to get
a random name generator and change a couple of good letters and ask you to add it through.
Okay.
Well, I thought you'd ask it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Make sure you're with me still work.
I know it.
I know it.
I know it.
I know it.
I know it.
Sorry.
I didn't have to back you back.
No problem.
You're probably going to make me say that that would eventually bounce to you.
This is maybe the first time you said it.
I love to hear Canadians say that.
Yeah, because you can't do it.
Yeah, I know I can't.
No, you can't.
No, you can't.
No, you can't.
No, you can't do it.
No, you can't do it.
No, you can't do it.
No, you can't.
No, you can't.
No, you can't.
I'm really pretty� as to you.
No,겠 people, yeah.
Those people survive their trial.
Yes?
Yes.
I got you.
You can get up here.
Anyway.
I'll catch you later.
David, thanks a lot.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Thanks a lot.
Okay, I'll see you later.
Like I said.
Goodbye.
See you there.
Thanks for watching the Hack of learned Radio.
HBO was sponsored by Battle Dotnet.
So had on over to see AARO dot anything more on theplet Thanks for showing us.
That's all it requires
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