Episode: 3498
Title: HPR3498: Linux Inlaws S01E45: The Big Xmas New Year bash with the Grumpies
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3498/hpr3498.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 00:39:05

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This is Haka Public Radio Episode 3498 for Wednesday the 29th of December 2021.
Today's show is entitled, Linux in Los S0145, the biggest mass new year bash with the drum
disc, it is hosted by Monochrome and is about 135 minutes long and carries an explicit flag.
The summer is the same as the title so I'm not going to repeat it.
This is Linux in Los, a podcast on topics around free and open source software,
any associated contraband, communism, the revolution in general and whatever fences your tickle.
Please note that this and other episodes may contain strong language, offensive humor and
other certainly not politically correct language you have been warned.
Our parents insisted on this disclaimer. Happy mom?
Thus the content is not suitable for consumption in the workplace,
especially when played back in an open plan office or similar environments.
Any miners under the age of 35 or any pets including fluffy little killer bunnies,
your trusty guide dog are less on speed and qt rex's or other associated dinosaurs.
And rolling, this is something remotely known at the season one, Episode 45 of the Linux in Los.
Good evening.
Season one man, where is the season by any way?
You do season one, amazing.
As we have guested listeners, now we have the grumpy call us back once again
to share our 2021 as in the great Christmas and New Year's and New Year's episode.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, nice to be here again.
Welcome.
Yes, thanks for letting us out of this.
How is the grumpy coding going?
Grumpy coding is doing very well.
Grumpy coding is up, absolutely.
In 2022, right, grumpy coding will be the new big thing.
So you got rid of the old?
Actually not, right.
But the question was phrased this late, so anyway.
Yeah, do we need to introduce ourselves?
I don't think so.
You probably do it for the future.
Yeah, exactly.
Now is the time to do some marketing.
Thomas, maybe you start with introducing yourself and then I think.
Yeah, sure, why not?
Yeah, I'm Thomas.
I'm being paid for writing software since 2004.
So I've done it for a little while.
And currently I work for AWS.
That's me.
And you, which is Amazon web services of Amazon web services.
Yeah, that's right.
Jeff, if you're listening, the email address is sponsor at linuxinlaws.eu.
Yes, it's still waiting for sure.
My name is David working or maybe almost as long as Thomas in the software industry.
Right.
And yeah, worked as software engineers of the architect,
project manager, blah blah in the past, right.
Right now, I'm focusing more on training content by working a lot with a company called Redis.
Everybody knows me?
I'm the host of linuxinlaws along with myself, Martin.
Yes, Martin, that wasn't you.
Exactly.
Nothing better than the awful pause.
We can cut this out.
Oh, let's, we don't do anything.
Yeah, you don't do any post-application.
We can just screw this entire episode entirely up with our having a post-processed wall.
This is what it should have.
Maybe just can't just go for it.
Can we swap as well?
Of course we can.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Our podcast is one that has explicit.
That's fucking great.
Because they want everyone.
Exactly.
You can see what are we going to move.
You whatever you want.
Even by AWS.
You can, yeah, you can even, you can even take the piss at AWS.
Because your opinions are your own, right?
Yes.
Whether you, whether you would have a job in the morning, that's a totally different issue.
So we can speak completely freely.
This is nice.
Hey, there's a much better podcast out there.
No, I'm just kidding.
You can touch this out.
So people, if you're listening, if you have to be on many frames,
grumpy old coders is your podcast.
We wish you could mock up to mainframes.
Do they even know what mainframes are?
These grumpy coders, right?
Yeah, sure, sure.
I think that's not known what names are and so on, right?
I think what they're called grumpy old coders for reason.
Well, there seems to have a very recent IT experience compared to you in the Chris.
Well, we're down with the kids.
You know, we know what's going on.
I know what the point is.
We'll leave it in the kitchen, right?
With all those full stack developers.
No offense.
Well, in fairness now, I reckon that David is the only one weighing a beard, right?
So, well, I'm sporting a beard.
Let's put it in here.
No, I'm just doing as well, right?
Yeah, my profile picture is very old and linked in.
Let's just say that.
You've become one of these hipsters too.
So, is your favorite language and stuff?
Does that come with the beard?
Actually, I hit the beard very quickly, right?
I'm basically more strange than the rest.
You're the more I'm surprised.
Question.
I thought the mic was born.
Maybe we'll get to the program with languages later.
Yeah, yeah, we don't have a script, so we don't know.
Exactly, we don't have a script, so we don't have a script, so we don't know.
That's a nice thing to do.
It's not like this.
It's not only you've ripped it.
It's a Martin.
Hey, hello.
Hello.
Why don't you explain what tonight's episode is all about?
Sure.
So, last year, in 2020, we did some predictions on 2021.
We talked about a number of topics.
We're going to revise those today with the help of Grimpio Codos and get their input as well,
to see how to see a panel out.
And we can also see if Chris can beat his record of saying full disclosure in one episode
of 1023.
So, if this is the last year's episode, that's how many do we have.
Did you get any point counted the number of full disclosure in one year?
Well, maybe we could do this.
Thankfully enough, I controlled the post-process of Europe's broadcast.
Which post-process?
He did not exist in one.
Okay.
Okay, question one.
So, let's start with what was our prediction of the feature of Red Hat last year?
Yes, would you like to start with that one?
Well, I said it's going to be incorporated in the good old IBM and to some extent that has
happened, because quite a few people have been let go.
I reckon the word is still out on there, managed to streamline the organization.
The best example is probably breaking the promise.
As in CentOS 8, we'll go down the road of...
So, what I'm looking for, 86, no.
We'll be sunseted, exactly.
We'll be sunseted before the year's over.
It will no longer exist in next year.
Quite a few people...
You mean we'll not only be maintained, but we'll still exist.
Sorry, it will still exist, yes, but it will no longer be maintained.
There's then eroding release upgrade.
But quite a few people are reckon got very upset about this fact, because that
pretty much broke the promise that Red Hat made and IBM then broke subsequently.
So, Red Hat will still be there, but maybe IBM should just wait
until the market capitalization of a company called Microsoft has really increased,
and then they can be bought for a fair price by Microsoft.
If current stock prices and that's market caps, I may think they'll go by.
It's interesting, so why do we think Microsoft would buy Red Hat?
No, Microsoft was simply by IBM.
By IBM, okay.
Exactly, details, opinion.
Indeed.
Indctory stock prices only that for me?
says Microsoft.
Lisa, might be just of this for me?
If so, I will decide it.
I would choose to ask...
Yes, yes, please.
Mister Neadella, if you're listening, the email addresses...
Yeah, didn't even literally dropง.
But he's still waiting since then.
And you can hire Christ estate who's consulting for...
for basically doing this, Opposition Grad.
No, I mean, I mean to run this with you, I mean Microsoft would then still get the few remaining customers that they don't have already.
And some just like old iron and stuff.
Yeah, the customer.
The way it doesn't have really is that they don't have.
Which by the way, it's still the money spin of IBM.
Because if you take a look at the at the how main how main frames are sold.
This is where the mood comes from.
And interesting, interesting.
Sounds a little bit like I am not sure, right?
But it sounds totally legacy to me to do this, right?
Wouldn't the company like Microsoft or better invest into something like the future?
Would it would not be to basically extend their market share in clouds or and whatever.
So how would IBM help with that?
I mean, continues.
Actually, one prediction we made last year was that Microsoft is going to buy canonical instead.
So.
Yeah.
It's made.
That didn't happen.
No.
It didn't happen.
Indeed.
It didn't.
Yeah, but think about it.
What would Microsoft gain by buying canonical?
I mean, Ubuntu is as out there.
It's open source.
It's for free.
So why?
Why would they do that?
They buy many things.
Hmm.
Nah, I mean, they may be.
I am.
I'm sure right.
The thing is in cloud right now, if you spin up an instance of Linux or whatever, right?
Then typically, yeah, no one cares too much about support anymore, right?
And this is a kind of maybe systematic issue, right?
That whatever is provided there service is called fully managed and supported.
Exactly.
But how much is it really fully managed and supported?
Right.
So spinning it up and we spinning it up if it dies.
But supporting it in reality.
I mean, there's some intellectual property related associated to Ubuntu, let's say, right?
And maybe it would have them to have their own or, yeah, let's say cloud.
I mean, their own the news distribution.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Based on that, which can be fully supported with them, right?
So going to your first class citizen with in-house support from Microsoft.
Exactly.
Because no one makes, I mean, not against Microsoft Windows, but a bit today.
Maybe, but no one deploys right now stuff on Windows.
Indeed.
Plastic effect that about 80% of the container user lines actually are Ubuntu.
Yeah, but that is cute.
I mean, you know, that is cute because containers are sort of build around Linux kernel to begin with.
You know, I know Windows software is catching up and there are Windows containers for years.
I don't know where they are now, but I would say that statistic is cute.
You should probably look at everything that is deployed, not just containers.
Did you say Windows Server is catching up?
I don't know if they have any traction yet.
I don't know about that.
I'm not saying it hasn't.
But I imagine if you think about containerizing your application,
you're kind of already in linux.
Yeah.
I don't know if they have any traction yet.
I don't know about that.
I'm not saying it hasn't.
But I imagine if you think about containerizing your application,
you're kind of already in linux land, right?
That's all I'm saying, right?
So I'm thinking the statistic is probably skewed.
So selection by myself.
But it doesn't contradict the argument that Microsoft could have an interest to basically
are.
No, not at all.
Canonical.
Canonical in order to have its own supported or Linux distribution.
Actually, some people that know this stuff really,
instead of for just basically, yeah, or yeah,
bringing some things up.
Listeners.
Listeners.
If you are out there, if you run in those containers,
the email address is containers at grumpyoldcorders.org.
We need to say that you sent this to Thomas directly.
Yeah.
I don't do windows anymore.
I just don't exist.
Yeah.
Full disclosure, Thomas.
Thomas is a dot net developer.
I'm a developer.
I tend to like windows.
I'm a dot net developer.
I'm a dot net developer.
I'm a dot net developer.
But I haven't touched that net in probably four years.
I've got people switched to know it.
Yeah, sometimes I missed that net to be on the full disclosure.
This is called a two cold turkey, right?
Hey, what do you mean by that?
Cold turkey.
Cold turkey.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I still get the shakes and all that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Rehab works.
It does.
I mean, type script is kind of like C sharp.
So I feel kind of it.
Yeah.
Talking about containers.
I mean, completely.
Topic in the sense that what I would like to have by the way is all containers,
which you can think about on M1, right?
So on arm basically, right?
Because where?
And maybe you had something on your list as well, right?
Okay.
Yeah.
And so talking about the M1 stuff, right?
I really like it.
Performance is really great.
So I have one our MacBook Air, which has an M1 and it's by, I mean, just amazing, right?
How silent, form and whatever it is for something like video and audio processing.
And for this is really great.
But it's a for development purposes.
What I'm missing right now is basically the support of all containers I could imagine, right?
And it's actually a bit problematic for me right now to develop stuff freely.
Because there is no container support.
That's also correct.
David.
Yeah.
I mean, there is container support.
Yeah, you're right.
There is container support, but some containers are just not prepared for arm, right?
And so I'm not the person who's basically doing this, right?
And then and some other containers are much more complex as that you can basically just do this out of the box, right?
Docker desktop actually has a queue as a hyper.
It's not happening.
Something else.
But yeah, but this is not, I mean, emulating, right?
But emulating what is the point?
I mean, you could use cream or whatever for emulating stuff, right?
Yeah, but the problem is then what is the point, right?
I mean, the reason why I have an M1 is for the performance, right?
Why should I emulate something like an X86 or on basically a much faster arm, right?
I mean, for this purpose, there is a performance that I think I did read about it.
There was a significant performance that I don't know the exact numbers.
If you emulate this stuff on top of arm, which kind of makes to sense the areas, right?
So meaning it's, yeah, it's possible, but it's not perfectly possible.
And it would be better to have this stuff natively supported, right?
Actually, I was wondering or I kind of had the idea to buy maybe an M1 Vax or whatever, right?
But the only thing which holds me back from buying it is basically that I'm not convinced that I can run all the containers that I need in order to use it for development purposes.
So people, if you're listening to this and if you haven't bought an M1 just buy one especially, especially the Hipses out there because they drive up numbers so that Dockhan friends will start to listen.
And Apple, don't buy one.
No, it's not just Dockhan.
Don't give money to Apple.
Apple, the E-Mandros is sponsored and it's in Los Adios.
The containers of the images still waiting.
Jokes aside people.
I have been using M1 for almost a year now.
It's a MacBook Pro.
And for this, it's my work machine.
And Rosetta does an excellent job, by the way.
And pretty pleased with Dockhan desktop.
So you use the cream-oost stuff with Dockhan desktop and it works for everything.
Yes.
Well,
also more complex cluster solutions.
I mean,
so it's a if you if you would run a cluster of a container which has a bit more complexity like a fat container.
Does this work well?
Or do you see?
I'm doing any Bitcoin mining on that machine because it's a work machine.
I was not referring to Bitcoin mining, but maybe more complex distributed systems.
For instance, developed for microservices, right?
There is a lot of stuff running and one of the reasons why you have a beefy machine is that you can develop this locally on your machine instead of deploying.
Something like our test environment to the cloud, right?
Which saves me.
It's ultimately some cost and the machine is basically paying for itself.
Yes, but it's one machine.
It's not a, it's not just a cluster and AWS or GCPOs one, but there's no.
So being a somewhat sales oriented technical person.
No, I do not do a heavy deployment on that machine.
But the battery for example is awesome.
Compared to prior apples that gets me through the day without recharging.
Yeah, the M1.
I have the Macbook.
It does something like I mean,
I was using some stuff already real time for case streaming.
Do you not have power over there?
No, we don't.
This is a third world country called Germany, so we don't have power.
No, we don't have power supply.
No, we don't.
We don't have, right?
It's called a dark sky country.
In contrast to the UK, which is still remaining its superiority.
Oh, yeah.
Centuries.
Absolutely.
Because there's this and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
We don't have power.
Yeah, much better then.
Yeah, no, no.
No, no, no.
Part of the EU.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
We even have street view.
Aha.
Yeah.
And you have a really great prime minister, right?
Anyway, yes.
Well.
And Laura is at Laura's and petrile bound, I hear.
I feel like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This went off quite far enough.
I think we should go back to the.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
The next one was little to the mainframes.
Yeah, I don't have to think about that.
No, I don't have any of that one.
It's been quite a lot of time.
I know.
I mean, guys are still around.
It's been making lots of money for IBM.
So what's happening?
Our mainframes going to the cloud.
Our cloud providers offering some of mainframe compatible servers,
because it would make sense, right?
They already have.
Yeah.
There you go.
Not surprised.
I mean, it's the way it's around.
I mean, it's legacy stuff.
Well, because it's legacy stuff, which works.
I mean, there's nothing exactly because it works.
Lift and shift.
Exactly.
You can go to a custom and say you can keep exactly your same software
and just move it to the cloud.
That's very attractive.
I mean, the strategy that IBM sales has been quite successful
for the last two plus years has been.
If you have a distributed Oracle installation consisting
of 20 plus servers, we have something called a Lillian's One
system for you.
You simply shift the workloads and you'll save at least 20 to 30
percent is your as in total cost of ownership.
Yeah.
And there have been quite successful doing this.
Yeah.
It's really hard for me for me that.
I mean, this is I believe right, but it's hard to believe for me
that there are any green feed projects out there that basically
start by it working mainframe.
Oh, no.
We surely not green feed.
No, no, no, no.
You talk about modernization and their settings.
Yeah, sure.
Legacy stuff, which you basically migrate over there,
because it's easier to migrate it without too much pain.
Well, you're not refactoring your architecture and whatever.
But it's I mean, at some point, I mean, I tend to say it's
some point that dies, but I'm wrong, right?
I'm proven to be wrong because otherwise some software in
banking or some some language.
And whatever would not look like that anymore.
Exactly.
I mean, mainframes are on the on the short list for what?
For at least 10 to 20 years.
But still, if you take a look at any and any and any and your
report coming from IBM, this is where the money comes from.
That's amazing.
So people keep buying these things and keep renting these things.
I guess it's cheaper than you developing.
I mean, the only.
The previous episode actually.
There is a paradox in writing regarding this stuff.
We learned this maybe all when we looked in consequence in the past, right?
The bigger the heat of shit is, right?
The more likely people will not want to touch it.
That's right.
Which means that this stuff just just arrives because no one wants to touch it.
Right?
They just want to keep it up.
It's a heat of shit.
It's because it works really.
That's why people don't touch it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But there is there's complex.
I mean, if it would be something which is not a total vendor lock in,
if it would be something which is architectural battle,
but defined by some measures, let's say, right?
It would not be too hard to react to something with step by step,
which is more modern, right?
But it was designed from the very beginning to be a lock in situation,
right?
And you end up in this.
I disagree, actually.
If something is built well and it works well, why would you refactor it?
Well, that's the thing.
From a business point of view, where's the return on investment and rewriting it?
And all you get out of it is.
I tell you, I mean, it literally works as well.
Re-sources.
Finding new resources, even maintaining this shit, right?
I mean, what is it?
I mean, where do you find people that know how to work with mainframes, right?
I mean, even as IBM, right?
At some point, all those old guys are dead, right?
And then you can find new resources, right?
And if you find them there, incredibly expensive, right?
And so, and you should ask yourself the same question as a company who's using this stuff, right?
So are you finding people that are developing stuff for that?
Are you finding people that are innovating your services that are developed and dead?
Because most of the systems out there, I mean, sure, it works, right?
But there are new requirements coming all the time, right?
I mean, the world is not still standing.
So you need to have scalability.
You need to have new features.
You need to, kind of, for maybe incorporate more information about people, right?
And this is happening in reality, right?
And it's hard to believe that something which is running there, which just worked for 20 years,
is fulfilling all those modern, maybe non-functional requirements,
or even function requirements on top of that, right?
Plus the human resource issue.
So at some point, I guess you need to go to something else, right?
Here's the catch.
If you put Linux one on a mainframe, you have a Linux user that in front of you of your choice.
You're looking at Radat, you're looking to just name it.
The thing is, basically, how many times in the given year you hear about outages on AWS,
GCP, external rest of them at least three or four times, but you're looking at,
and IBM, the address is sponsored, and it looks in-laws to you.
Just in case you're forgetting.
But IBM Z is called Z4 Reason.
It has zero downtime, because you're looking at 50 plus years of engineering,
going into that hardware.
But if you have a Linux user, then this feels exactly like Linux runs exactly like,
I mean, I'm not a mainframe expert, right?
You can maybe hear here.
But the question is, the question is a bit, if it feels like Linux,
it's used like Linux.
So if you abstract the mainframe a way to a degree that you can easily use it,
and that you don't have a monologue in on the mainframe,
then the question is, why should you use it?
And not just use kind of another boxes, right?
Because of the zero downtime promise.
But it's a promise, right?
There is no zero downtime there.
That's just unrealistic.
I mean, you always have S and A's.
I mean, I would be interested.
I would be interested to see something like a contract, which IBM gives out to their customers
and saying, hey, this is having zero downtime.
So we promise you 100% S and A, right?
I doubt that this is the case.
No, just call your IBM sales rep.
You're 30.
100% S and A.
And otherwise, if you're money back,
or if your business is down, then it is a year.
No, I mean, what I mean.
AWS gives you what?
Four Nines, if you're lucky,
11 on storage.
Yeah.
And it's only on storage.
Yes.
IBM, I reckon gives you more than that on the complete system.
Maybe we should double check, right?
Because I mean, honestly,
no, but the zero downtime stuff is a marketing freeze.
And at the end, there is always an S and A associated, which is having a number of Nines
and then zero dot, whatever number.
Why do almost all of the banks that I know are quite a few of them because of my,
because on my background and my legacy,
run there.
Okay, apart from the legacy aspect,
they all run their general election on the mainframe for a reason.
I might add.
Yeah, maybe for this reason, but maybe for the same reason,
why they run fortune applications there, right?
The more than lucky, the general election would be programmed in cobalt,
but that's beside the point.
Like cobalt.
Yeah.
Okay.
Cobalt.
The point is, whatever.
If they earn like a TK language, anyway, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, you're right.
It's tackle.
It's tackle.
Yes.
Anyway.
I have to remember this anyway.
The story.
So the point is basically, if you trigger this,
this consolidation batch of it, one day in the morning, it runs.
Not like a cloud that maybe runs or something until you hit an outage.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fine.
I mean, personally, really.
I mean, it's okay.
We can basically mark this as, as then this topic maybe,
and we can say, okay, fine, it will be around for sure.
It will be around, right?
And maybe it will be around for ages because it's legacy because there is a lock-in situation
for the customers because they're, again, people don't want to touch it.
Maybe because it's stable.
Maybe whatever, right?
But I mean, at the end, there's no rocket science, right?
Whatever software you have runs on infrastructure, right?
Info infrastructure can be set up to be redundant.
I mean, indeed, all this stuff, right?
And you can apply the same patterns which you apply to mainframes in a sense
to also cloud services, right?
You can also make them redundant.
You can make them scalable.
You can basically, I mean, the recipe to achieve this, right,
is if you go down, down, down, bound to physics at the end, right?
So indeed, this stuff is rock solid and so on, right?
But I'm not sure if you can just stay there, okay, hey, this is,
because it's around for 30 years, it needs to be much more reliable
than something else which was maybe designed 15 years ago, right?
To be reliable, right?
I'm not sure if this consequence is a very consequent.
On this particular topic, it's really moving on to the next agenda item.
Will SkyNet become IBM once again?
Or would there be, will, will, will, will IBM become SkyNet once again?
No, of course.
And for the initials, of course, the question was,
will SkyNet become Nvidia once again?
Because as we all know, at least people who listen to,
to, to, to some of our backlog episodes,
there was an episode actually that had an interview with a terminator
where the terminator actually explained to how SkyNet came into existence.
And funny enough, if history is anything to go by,
SkyNet evolved from a company called Nvidia.
Given the current stock price, they have the cash to do so.
Oh yeah, I wish I bought Nvidia stock a year ago.
You didn't.
Too bad.
No.
Or Tesla.
Or.
But Tesla.
Tesla idea.
Tesla idea.
I did Tesla.
So, so that worked out nicely.
But yeah, not Nvidia.
I'm annoying.
So you interviewed a terminator, did you?
Yes.
That was the excellent terminator.
Which one?
The actual top?
Yes.
No, that was in contrast to the T2.
I would.
To a T2.
That was actually a T point.
A T.
Sorry.
That was actually a T1.5.
Because the T2, of course, we cannot afford,
because we're actually spending budget.
Got it from this or something like that.
That's actually me.
You should go first.
You are.
That's why I opened my top.
So we managed to procure to continue that sentence.
We managed to procure it to a T1.5.
We actually never might spill the beans on how Skynet came about.
Sorry.
I'm sitting here like, what is happening?
I don't want to know if you need it on the subject.
To be honest, man, I'm not getting the question right.
The question is quite simple.
T1.5 basically told us come back from the future from 2020.
So a 2060 something, 67 or something like this.
Actually, that Nvidia, it is very core.
And enough AI technology at its disposal to become eventually Skynet.
Wow.
And the rest, as we all know, is history.
If the documentary is called Terminator123.45678,
anything to go by.
But surely.
And the provider would be the one with the biggest machine learning capabilities.
Right.
So I would expect Microsoft or Amazon to become Skynet.
What hardware do we have?
Yeah.
Yeah, I suppose so.
And do they actually have any hardware available?
In my experience last year, they were severely running out of Nvidia.
I want to buy a graphics card for a year and a half now.
This is just cloud.
I mean, it doesn't matter.
This is weren't available, right?
Because they were all let out.
Sure.
Yeah.
For Bitcoin mining.
Whatever.
Yeah.
But I guess this is not, I guess this doesn't make commercially sense to rent in video boxes.
From a cloud vendor to mine Bitcoin, right?
I mean, it should not make sense, right?
Because this seems like a waste of providing resources by the cloud vendor, right?
It could use it by themselves in order to mine Bitcoin.
We should have a price algorithm to match that.
Maybe just the reason, right?
The cloud.
Why does all mine Bitcoin?
This is this is early December 2021.
A Bitcoin clock in at 56,000 something.
But if you double that price, I reckon it would make sense to move this into the cloud,
because they have a price point advantage.
Yeah, this is what we're saying.
And the cloud price will be equally adjusted for the same reason.
Exactly.
The market should basically keep them instances for themselves.
It's a bit funny, right?
I heard and I'm not sure if this is true, right?
But it's a bit funny that there are some, I mean,
I'm really not into this stuff usually, right?
But if you see markets that are influencing each other, right?
It seems to be, and I'm not sure if this is true, right?
But I'm sorry.
There is one idea, basically, that the Bitcoin price is basically influenced by some illegal businesses,
like drug dealers, whatever.
Really?
Which is, I mean, I don't know, right?
I guess it is the case, right?
But funny is if this would spike, right?
This would basically then cause something like more cloud consumption,
which basically would have an impact on the clouds or marketers,
whether which is, if you think about it,
at least a little bit ironic.
Right.
So you're saying my salary is being paid by drug dealers, basically.
That's it.
Why?
Exactly.
Why is it coming?
That's what I'm saying.
So what whatever pays more with that account?
I don't know.
The book's drugs are the difference, right?
Exactly.
Indeed.
Exactly.
Nevermind.
Nevermind.
Welcome to the Darknet.
You always have a book.
Exactly.
No, I mean, seriously, I mean, what percentage do you think of the Darknet actually runs on AWS and friends?
I don't know.
I reckon quite a bit because if you do it right, it's not that complicated to shoot to shields.
What you're doing on that cloud.
No, it's all encrypted in many, many layers.
Exactly.
And the cloud provider doesn't get in.
So yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yes.
But there must be some front companies that actually pay the cloud consumption bills somehow.
This is where the money laundering gets in, no?
I suppose so.
I suppose you still can't pay cloud consumption.
You must be quite mean, Sissy.
Yeah.
Cartels, if you're listening, the email addresses sponsor and clean is in the front.
Fill the beans, Thomas.
Come on.
No.
They don't tell me anything.
Oh, right.
Fried off, Thomas.
I probably would have to.
I probably would have to.
Yeah.
Please read that.
Also, just to Thomas.
In this case, right?
Also, just to go.
Because.
Yeah.
The email address is cartels at grumpy old quarters of the org.
Need to make a note.
What was the other one containers?
Containers there.
Actually, I think even that this would work.
Right.
I think the.
The inbox is basically forwarding this automatic me or whatever.
I'm not sure.
Oh, nice.
I don't know.
I need to check.
I don't expect that anyone would send us emails to this.
Just the original, right?
I might.
All right.
No, man.
Okay.
How do we get the cartels?
Actually, via.
Sky.
Sky.
Sky.
Yes.
Yeah.
So I'm not sure.
I mean, we can answer the question with no, right?
Because we basically assume that Nvidia is providing hardware.
Pieces to cloud vendors.
And this will mean that they might, by themselves, not have the infrastructure to build something like sky net, but maybe to get up with other vendors, they could potentially do this.
Right.
And then there's a related question, right?
Do we actually have any.
Any.
Are.
Strong.
I.
I mean, a chance for strongly.
And I think, uh, Thomson, I discussed this in one, one of our episodes and our program was maybe not right or like most likely not.
I mean, it feels away.
All the AI we have right now is basically just, uh, uh, simplest stuff.
Right.
Simple function approximation, specifications, stuff like this.
Right there.
Is this what the press tells you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
There's no conspiracy theory made up by.
This one.
Anyway.
Yeah.
So I don't think so.
Which ones of you have seen a documentary called the Matrix.
It's about 20 years old.
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
I saw it.
I wouldn't call it the commentary, but it is actually documentary because.
People who just call it science fiction are of course wrong.
I mean, uh, I like the characters, Neo, and so on.
Right.
Anyway.
Uh, but, uh, yeah.
What?
What has the metrics to do with it?
Uh, so because.
How many, how many times for the given day do you see a woman in the red dress David about twice?
How many times in the given day?
I walked from home.
The only woman I see is my wife.
You know what?
Now I would like to have more diesel.
Right.
No, I would like to have diesel.
Yeah.
I see, so the matrix is fully packed as we speak.
Oh, man.
Netflix is in full effect as we speak.
Okay fine. So pop culture or do it culture. I guess not culture is the right thing in this context.
Yeah, I'm not sure how we got to the metrics now. Right.
Because I mentioned it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I need, but the question is why did you
Why not? Because, yeah, because we're all working for the truth now. Yeah. And the metrics is
associated to the truth. You know what? I mean, it's a maybe philosophical thing, but even if the
metrics would be existing and we would not be aware of it, right. And in the sense this would
be fine. It's where it would change anything about our existence in the sense. Right.
Because what we observe right now is anyway only a very small part of how the universe is
operating and what it doesn't change for the picture. Right. Very much so. But I mean, it all
both sound as a fact if you're called taking a blue or red pill at some stage.
Yeah. But my point is the universe, the universe doesn't give a shit about it. If you take
the blue or the red pill, right. That's that's my point. Right. It's basically fine. And to what?
Right. The metrics within the metrics within the metrics or whatever. Right. I mean,
the reality we observe is the reality we observe. Right. And even if we would
get another reality, right, then we need to deal with it. Right. And again, the universe,
the bigger picture doesn't give a shit about it. Right. So yeah, to bring this to a point,
I want to read a thing or hold a thing. I don't remember. And the conclusion was anyway,
the conclusion was I don't remember the details. The conclusion was if we are actually living
in a simulation, then we wouldn't be able to tell, you know, there's no test we could run.
There's nothing we could do to find out if we are in a simulation or not.
True. And the funny thing about the red pill, the blue pill, the blue pill, the blue pill, and
metrics is touching this topic, I think slightly in one of the last or the episodes or whatever
is where they realize, we are still in the metrics or whatever, right. So this is the point,
right. It doesn't really matter, right. So even if you pricks through it, who tells you that
you're not and still in the simulation, right. So I know also on and so on, right. At the end,
it doesn't really matter if it is a simulation about, right, because it doesn't make any difference
for you personally or for the universe. Thomas, I hate to admit this, but you are right,
because there wasn't there wasn't Austrian mathematician quite good about a hundred years ago.
Less than that. Actually, slightly more than that, basically, who prove that you're absolutely
spot on, because what Google said is, you cannot prove the coherence of a mathematical system,
and that's a layman's interpretation of this within the system yourself.
There's a good very tossium video about this quite recently as well. So I don't know if you
follow that YouTube channel, but I don't. What's YouTube? Okay. Okay, then. Yeah, but it's a good
video. At the end, this is also one of the fundamentals of system theory, right. So within the,
I mean, there are, for instance, distributed systems have the same issue, right. So basically,
you can't be for sure tell if something is down in your distributed system, because if you're
within the distributed system, you need to observe it from the outside in order to do valid conclusions,
right. So for instance, something like a network petitioning or being down is how to basically
decide from within the system, maybe, yeah. So the point is the same, right. You kind of
serve it from the inside. You need to observe it from the outside. For those two people who are still
awake, this is the insomnia. I find that fascinating. Yeah. I mean, we told this nicely around,
right. The fact that we basically, I don't know, maybe just make stuff up around those questions.
That wasn't even in the script, the matrix thing. Yeah, exactly. The matrix was not in the script.
Exactly. I want to speak with your manager. There is no way to market in the market.
No, to be, I mean, to be really fair, because just doing just stole the idea from Google,
I mean, that proves, of course, the point that there's no real advances in science,
because people just keep borrowing things and never giving them back. That was a bit like IT.
Indeed. There is no specific sense, right.
Sorry. Moving swiftly on.
This is for you, Thomas. Are Microsoft and Google going to eat into AWS market?
Oh, wow. We skipped a few points. Yeah, of course. Oh, yeah. What points did we miss?
Oh, yeah. No, no, we did that one. Anyway, we get back to the globally data.
I think Google is still a while away. I don't know if you've seen the latest garden or magic
quadrant thing, but Microsoft is close on Amazon's heels, right? So it's still, it still doesn't have
all the services. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I'm getting to that. So it's still,
it still doesn't have all the services, all the capabilities. But if you are a specific customer
who has a set of requirements and Azure filters those, then, then you're good, right? So that's one
thing. And the other thing is the, the ability to execute, which comes into the features as well,
but also how many data centers do they have? How much hardware do they have? And
Amazon is still, as it is years ahead, but Azure is catching up quickly.
Yeah. And that the strong point is usability, right? So me coming from that net, if I didn't
work for for AWS, then Azure would be my cloud of choice. Yeah, indeed it would, but you would
also run stuff on Windows, right? You develop, for instance, you develop a web application in
.net and Visual Studio does one button to deploy this to, well, a hosted hosting solution of
some sort. And .net runs perfectly fine on Linux, which is the default, I think, anyway. .net.
So this is what I do. I have to correct this.
Ah, it.net core doesn't exist anymore. There was recently released .net six, which brings core
and .net together again on the one. See, see, see, Martin, this is how you program marketing.
Just listen.
Oh, man. So, yeah, the core is not.net core. So they got rid of all those different flavors of
.net. And there's only one single.net now. Yes, it's the port.net six is the one to rule them all.
Yeah, that's the plan. Okay. Yeah, right. I mean, it was a nightmare, even on the part time, right?
But, but certainly, you know, if you're in, if you're working in sales in AWS, which I'm not,
but I had to take the trainings, which was annoying. But anyway, the Azure is the one that you get
the most points, you know, what is, what if the customer mentions Azure? Okay. In that case,
you say this, this and that. So you could say, Azure is the cloud that Amazon is afraid of.
Wow. So, so actually you got trained on Azure, working for Amazon.
Okay. Guys, can we cut this out? I mean, I don't want that the Thomas gets into trouble.
No, this is, this is perfectly, I think this is common knowledge, right?
Yeah, but if you've got to be fine, I'm not saying, you know, I'm not saying what
the statements were that were taught. But it's okay. But it's, I think it's perfectly fine for
sales consultant to be trained in, okay, what, what, what are the arguments against the
competitor, right? Yeah. I mean, that nobody else indeed is, but you, right? The question is,
if there's confidential, who Amazon is seeing as its main competitor, right?
I think that is also common knowledge. You just have to look at the magic crot once and
there. Okay. Azure is the one close. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I would, I mean,
none of what I said is particularly secret, I don't think. I mean, David, if you take a look at
the numbers, I mean, exactly that checks out plus the fact that Microsoft has about 20 years of,
of enterprise sales at, at the advantage. And that's exactly what you see when you take a look at
the growth numbers. Yeah, fine. I mean, I would not underline that Microsoft has the better usability
and whatever, right? I mean, if I use Azure portal, for instance, it's a nightmare, right? It's
all the concepts there are overly complicated for no fucking reason, I think, right? So,
something like, what is it, direct to reason, subscriptions, and whatever, right? I'm not getting
this. I mean, the others are doing it much better. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's pros and cons.
I mean, that subscription stuff is much easier on Amazon. That's true, but there's,
there's other stuff in Amazon that people find hard to use and easy to use in Azure, right?
It's just really reasonable. It's very good thing. Resource groups are good. I do miss them.
I've worked with Azure a lot and I miss resource groups. Yeah, resource groups are,
basically just say, hey, delete entire resource groups. Yeah, that's nice. This is really
nice. I admit, but there's other stuff which is more complicated, which is the Microsoft
way, let's say, right? Anyway, that's of course another reason to go back to the mainframe.
Indeed, because stuff is not complicated. No, it just works. I speak magically. It works
magically. With zero downtime. With zero downtime, I was about to say that as long as you provide
power and, you know, magic zero downtime, right? And your data center doesn't flood
anything like that. Exactly. I just created a new meable email address. The email address is
IBM, I'm not sponsored at little say loss on the new. So there are even no data centers that could
basically be impacted by any downtime. It's all based. Exactly. Yes. That's it.
Blocking in something and there's a electricity out of the wall without anything behind it.
Right. It's like, yeah, just have to find a table. Exactly. And you put some machines in your
basement. All works. Yeah. Yeah. Which of course brings us nicely back to the next topic of
discussion. The global statistic tater. And we discussed business from Putin.
Trump is done. And you'll be back. You'll be back. I don't think so, man, right?
Trump can't be back. How crazy would the world be if Trump would make it back, right?
I'll hold your breath. Hold your breath. Mark my words. Exactly. Exactly.
Hold your breath. That's exactly it. They voted him in the first place, right?
I leave the fucking planet. I leave the fucking planet.
I said, can't you want to give Jeff a bell? Because apparently he has some sort of space for
exactly. He's a piece of pieces then. Did you hear the nice sympathetic laugh he did
after he came back? Did you see that video? Which one? No. Well, the one he came out of the capsule
with his fetching hat on. I don't know. This Texan hat real thing. And he did a totally normal laugh.
So yeah, you have to watch the video. But it was insane. Absolutely insane. So yeah, I think
something's going on. Maybe the links will show notes. I don't know. Maybe maybe not.
Yeah, I can find it. It is still around. No worries. Absolutely. I mean,
yeah. Okay. So there's a strong qualifying candidate. Okay. Fair enough.
Yeah, I mean, he's not the CEO of Amazon anymore. So I can say I know what I want. So,
yeah, insane guy. But I suppose to cheat. That's a like a job or doesn't like to. No, no,
he's not an Amazon anymore on paper. No, I suppose you have to get some work business. You have
to be, you have to be a social part, right? To get up there and business.
Well, look at that. That's the requirements. Yes, exactly. Yeah, he's as crazy as the rest of them.
Yeah, exactly. Also no job and Tesla anymore.
Why did you, did you write on this?
I imagined the teens of you going, okay, so you passed your technical test.
But the one thing you said five years ago, about a year or less.
So look at that. That's why you can end all right.
Putin, actually, I mean, Putin is Putin. I mean, really, I'm not too at what, what
happened with Putin, what do people here think about this? He is basically, I mean, nothing
will happen with him, right? He's the closer for life, surely.
He's the closer for life, I'm a dad. He's the closer for some other people.
Not sure about the 11th and part there.
Yeah, I mean, but I don't know, right? I guess he will not gain any more power,
but he will not lose any more power. Oh, no, as long as the Novichok supply doesn't run down,
he's fine, right?
This is dark, but so funny.
I guess Tom is also not going for a job in.
What about Putin?
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no.
Exactly. We're going to have what KGB that won't fly.
Who says I'm not already walking for KGB?
KGB for listening is fun.
And if you want to, you need to talk.
Look at the XGDR I see.
Yes, if you are for life.
So what's happening on the inside, then, Tom is off of something called the KGB.
It's a great crack.
Oh, man, I would, I would love to be able to make a now a funny name or a funny name
up based on this acronym, right? But unfortunately, I don't have any funny.
What do you mean KGB or whatever?
Yeah, KGB, something which is not the actual intelligence service, but something else, right?
So, yeah, no, I didn't mean this, I didn't meant something to be different, whatever.
But unfortunately, I'm not that creative anyway.
Kubernetes, something.
Yeah, I get nothing.
Nothing, yeah.
Oh, there you go.
Nice.
What did you, what did you say?
Journal Global Buffer.
What about Kellogg's greatest beer?
Yeah, Kellogg's greatest beer, that flies.
Yeah, well, it's a shitty company name, right?
So, we need to do something.
It doesn't matter, David.
You see, Kellogg's doesn't do beer, but now they do.
Kafka Geek Base or something like this.
Oh, this is worse.
Coke's greatest beer?
No.
Did you say, what Coke?
Did you say Coke?
Yeah, Coke's greatest beer.
Yeah, of course, it's very strong, but don't forget about it.
Yeah, anyway, so it seems to be all not creative.
But it's, no, we're not.
Yeah, that's that's why, right?
Okay.
Yeah, the question is, who is global, global,
the medic dictator right now?
In my, I'm not sure, it's hard to judge kind of.
It's just based on Trump and Putin,
but I mean, Putin will be still around, right?
So let's say Putin, because he will be for sure around, right?
Trump, I'm still not convinced that he will make it back.
Hopefully not, right?
Man, he's also, David, that wasn't the question.
The question was actually who is the medic dictator?
Not who will be, who will be around if he is fine?
I think Putin Putin is never done in order to be a dictator,
you need to be a dictator, right?
I mean, the Trump can't be dictator,
can't, Trump can't be a dictator if he doesn't have any power.
No, Trump is just a salesman, right?
Putin, I think, is actually cunning.
I think he actually knows what he's doing, you know?
So I would, as a mad dictator, I would will Putin out.
I think he's a very same dictator.
Yeah, if this is possible.
Unfortunately, this, right?
I think if you look at the year,
I mean, I did some philosophy classes when I was at uni
and we talked a little bit about how fascism and stuff like this could arise
and the dictatorship in this context was actually
often a function of at least in Germany back then, right?
Of people to be too rational and less empathic and less emotional, right?
Which is, which is actually,
which is not mad in this, I mean, it's not the definition of mad,
but in a sense it is, right?
I mean, don't get me wrong,
but someone who is very rational,
right, and doesn't have any empathy,
could also be observed as a mad person, right?
In a, in a sense.
No, okay, definition of mad, then.
Exactly, so by mad, by mad,
I mean, someone who is really just a sociopath, sociopath, whatever, right?
And is behaving completely without any empathy towards other people, right?
Would you call this person mad?
I would, right?
So in this case, I would say Putin is maybe qualifying quite well, right?
Well, as I said earlier, sociopath probably applies to every successful businessman
and psychopath probably that I would give it to all three of them.
So Lindus wouldn't qualify, although he's covered from a dysfunction family,
because that's what he admitted,
but he's not a professional businessman.
So he can't, I mean, he's the technician of our life.
He has exactly, well.
Yeah, but the, there is a difference, but we, I mean, is he a dictator?
He is a responsible dictator in the context of his, in his project.
He's a BDFL, exactly.
Yeah, but I'm not sure if this is,
I mean, this is an overload of the term dictator, I would say, right?
Because in this sense, everyone who is a CEO of a company would be called the dictator, right?
Because a CEO of the company is basically also making calls on behalf of the entire company
by maybe getting advises, but he makes the call, right?
But he's not a dictator in his strict sense now.
So maybe going back to the nerfy truck thing, maybe who of them would you imagine
would poison people for personal gain?
Linus Torvalds, I couldn't imagine it, but three of them in the list.
Probably not.
Jesus, maybe also not, right?
Jesus, yeah, well, yeah, but it's a maybe, right?
Yeah, I mean, actually, actually, he has only, maybe he has only commercial interest, right?
He's rich enough, he doesn't give a shit, he does whatever he wants for, I mean,
so Trump is not just of the money, Trump is not just of the money, right?
He is really crazy, he's just, he's under, of the power, right?
And Putin is a is in a in a context, which is kind of, yeah,
it would seem distance to the other citizens, right?
No, don't forget a key fact.
Bezos lost half of his fortune due to divorce.
That's a rookie move.
Yeah, I mean, indeed, you know, too, what a nuisance.
So, okay, fine, I wasn't aware of it.
So he lost half of his money because he basically,
was very unique, but isn't this, isn't this something which qualifies him
to be lessetic, Taylor, because it seems that he is trusting in love and is,
is kind of having some empathy with him.
I would go along with that, I mean, imagine if that would trump if Melania says she
wanted a divorce, I mean, she would have some sort of accident pretty soon, right?
That's the fact that Trump doesn't have any money as we all know anyway.
Oh, yeah, there is that, I forgot about that.
Exactly.
That's it.
If he had not, sure if this is true, right?
I'm not sure if this is true.
David, do you still believe in Santa Claus, I wonder?
Just check it.
No, I mean, indeed not, but I mean, officially maybe it doesn't have, right?
Because otherwise, he would pay taxes.
But indeed, indeed, indeed, indeed he has.
But the point, the point, the question here is more about,
it's a medistic, Taylor, and the medistic, Taylor, I would say,
Bezos, actually, is this qualified by just doing this, by giving half of his money to someone else?
Right.
So this is not like a med dictator, in a sense.
Give money to that person, that person,
owned half of his money.
And we didn't have much choice, either.
Fine, which is more or less the same, right?
I mean, he could have protected himself, but maybe he believed.
Well, he had in love with another person, and what if,
right, exactly.
So, and he's not stupid.
I mean, if he wanted, would have liked to protect himself,
he would have done it, right?
But maybe he doesn't just care if he has.
I don't know how, how rich he is, right?
But maybe a bunch of billions, let's say, right?
If he built him fast, still, I mean, honestly, maybe it doesn't matter for him,
if he has five billions or two billions, right?
That's, like, I don't know if he has 118, or whatever.
Exactly.
It's anyway, so much money that he can't spend it in his lifetime,
or in real life.
That depends.
Yeah.
Many rockets to build here.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
As I've said, personally, right?
I mean, it's also, it's probably the same, too.
Yeah.
It's, it's my favorite fact that he invests in blue origin,
one million dollars every eight hours.
That's a lot of money.
Yeah.
So there you go.
Which is common knowledge.
I'm not breaking any NDAs by saying this.
It's, you know, it's well known.
Well, no.
Ligs will be in the show.
Anyway, can we, can we close this question?
I would say Putin, right?
Because Putin is, I mean,
Christophe not like this, but
let's say Putin is a guy who is really rational in the sense,
but he's also not very empathic.
He would be the person who would poison whoever,
whoever, I mean, not just what he does it affectionately,
I would say, right?
But oh, maybe not.
I'm not sure if he's lawyers that chase us.
So maybe not, right?
But so, so I would say Putin, right?
I'd give it to Trump because
maddest, right?
Trump is more erratic.
Yeah, but he's not in the team anymore, right?
And maybe he, I have to say, you're quite too young.
Potential, the problem is, I don't see him having any
potential, that's, that's what he, I mean,
I'm so upset about this, to be honest, right?
I can't even imagine how people basically could,
could, could would for him more.
Oh, yeah, no, you'll get back.
And maybe then he'll get a civil war, you know.
QA, you can keep the population.
Oh, nice.
It's just, yeah.
Churchill once said, never, never let a good crisis go to waste.
And he had a point.
Yeah, it's saying that.
And then he wasn't reelected after the war.
As soon as the crisis was gone.
Yeah, there you go.
He lived to learn.
Apparently he didn't, but that's bizarre point.
Okay, moving swift, they aren't into much more.
Did they conclude anything?
Did they conclude anything or?
Yeah, what, what, what, what's your take?
Marty, then there's the, there's a conclusion on the subject.
The conclusion that we discussed this last year.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
We came to the game.
So we discussed no table or half an hour for moving.
So all of this was going to be, yeah.
You see, there was an episode where the grumpy record is actually admitted to
doing the podcast and the same goes for Martin and myself.
Or not just because of listeners, but rather for them having good time.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I'm just, what is it?
We need to use my impure.
Exactly.
Yes, one more.
Looks like there's no, of course, me and that our listeners are just an asset.
No, no, no, they're much more than that.
Yeah, exactly.
No, I'm just, I'm just glad to be doing something.
Normally at this time I sit on the chair and stay on the wall or something.
So that's nice.
Yeah.
So it might not be us here.
Hey, how would that be of service?
Sorry.
Yeah, I think it's backwards.
But besides of that, anything is fine.
Okay, moving swiftly on.
The next question was actually apple one beginning of the end for Intel.
We already touched upon the one, but will this really be the end of Intel?
No, actually, I think that Intel is got his
as a little bit kicked, which is good, right?
Because I think what they are doing or what you can see this year is
that they are trying to actually invest a little bit more into architecture
instead of basically just heating the same or stuff up and up again, right?
I think they admitted that the M1 is just architecture is seen better
than what they deliver so far and they kind of even admitted
in one of the interviews, right?
I don't recall the name of the guy, but I think they admitted that they basically
were a little bit lazy, right?
By kind of just using whatever they did and just increased the stepping
and only to minor changes or improving the architecture.
Whereby, Apple M1 is kind of a huge step and they kind of gave the kudos
to whoever for this.
But if you can, if you look at the latest benchmarks that were released,
it seems that they hardly try to basically keep up with Apple M1 again, right?
So they try to outperform them again.
Did it work?
Did they succeed?
Yeah, they will, I guess.
I mean, at some point, I mean, hard to say,
but I guess what they, what it drives is more innovation at Intel
and maybe at some point they will see some land again, right?
I mean, to be honest, I mean, there is this land, right?
They are still the market leader in this domain, right?
And Apple didn't change this, but I think they all,
the competition in this case is something very good, right?
Because the competition basically drives also innovation on side of Intel,
right?
And this is maybe in the interest of everyone in the sense.
Yeah, but you guys are interesting.
Yeah, it makes it sound like Intel never had any competition, right?
So Intel and AMD, right?
So that there's AMD for years and years and years
sort of biting on their anchors, right?
There's all the AIM companies.
Yeah, but I mean AMD competed with them, but never,
I mean AMD had a bunch of CPUs that really got up to the game with them, right?
But Intel was for a long period of time ahead of AMD, right?
Or maybe there was a period of time in the past with 486 or whatever, right?
So, where this was not the case, but then later,
Intel was always a head-of-way AMD as far as I can tell, right?
Yeah, but that's kind of the point I'm making, right?
So Intel has the expertise to stay ahead.
Intel was really ahead of AMD, in certain cases, the...
In certain cases, but on which CPU was better?
Yes, CPUs were better and faster than the ones.
Which one? Which one was better?
Ryzen and friends, for example.
Ryzen, yeah, but this is the new one.
You're right, right?
Since Ryzen AMD is basically competing more heavily with them, right?
But before Ryzen, I mean, I don't see that there were CPUs that were AMD
which outperformed active with N CPUs of Intel.
When Ryzen, right, threat report, and so on, came, right?
They basically got more serious competition,
but it was not like an order of magnitude or whatever it is.
They still played in the same league, right?
Now, when Apple released the same amount, M1, really, that's...
No, the M1, that's not an order of magnitude, it's just...
No, I think the...
Yeah, okay, maybe not order of magnitude,
but given the...
The expansion marks, right?
The M1 was actually really...
Marking Apple's benchmarks.
No, it's not just marketing, man.
If you try...
I mean, I have a core, I'm not nine, right?
BFF machine, a MacBook Pro called i9, really, really BFF machines, right?
And I tried some workloads on this stuff, right?
And then I tried the same workload on an M1 MacBook Air
without any active cooling and the M1 on the MacBook Air
outperformed the i9 and my MacBook Pro, right?
Regarding the workload, so did the stuff just faster, right?
Or at higher resolution and so on, right?
And this is not just something which is marketing speech,
right? This is real.
I mean, it's not also a synthetic benchmark, which I looked at.
It was a real workload, which I used,
basically, for producing something.
And it worked really much better on the M1, right?
I was really impressed.
It was like, holy shit, right?
They just outperformed the top level CPU of Intel
on a device of that size, right?
Which doesn't have even active cooling, right?
So the i9 is basically making noise like hell,
if you run this workload on it and it's slower, right?
At least for this one scenario, right?
It doesn't mean that it outperforms it for everything.
But the M1 really is having, I'm pretty convinced, right?
The better architecture and I think Intel admitted this, right?
And so now Intel tries to get back into the game
by competing more heavily, right?
By kind of investing to fix this on their side.
And I guess this is just good for everyone, right?
It's definitely good, yeah.
Now, just as I said, marketing is that
if some of the claims around the life of the battery,
all this kind of stuff is, that was pure marketing
because they ran like videos at 5% brightness,
and all those kind of things to get to those numbers.
So that's, you know,
if they do something in marketing,
then, you know, they have to question their performance as well,
but if...
Yeah, yeah, maybe...
If you take a look at the market share,
and I totally get your arguments, David, but at the end of the day,
if you take a look at the buyers,
the buyers are mostly cloud-hyperscalers
that buy these CPUs and mainboards
and what have you in chose.
And up to now, AMD and Intel have been prevailing.
But if you take a look at the global deployment factor,
you're looking at ARM,
at ARM all performing Intel by way orders of magnitude
because of like, from mobile devices.
So, you have to...
Oh, also finish here.
Yeah, finish here.
So, you have all of these smartphones
that are mostly power-oper ARM chips,
but, and this is capital B now.
If you're taking a look at the inroads
that ARM is making with regards to Graviton and Franz Thomas,
I reckon there's knowledge, slim chance,
there's actually quite a visible chance of ARM also
taking over in the cloud, in the hardware scalers.
Yeah, it's like this.
Exactly what I was going to say,
the Graviton 3 just got introduced,
and there's more and more workloads.
You know, if you offer a Node.js,
for instance, that runs on these ARM instances,
that I forget the numbers,
that are 60% cheaper, whatever.
Why can't you do it?
It's amazing.
Yeah, it's amazing.
It's a big thing.
I mean, at the end, it comes down to physics, right?
In a data center, you basically need to cool this stuff.
You need to put it basically.
That's it.
Bring the energy and so on, right?
And if you can basically improve this,
by 30%, or whatever it is as a percentage,
right?
This is a huge business case, right?
So, I'm pretty sure that we will see more ARM in the cloud
or in the future, right?
Regardless of Apple M1, but the Apple M1 is not,
I mean, the question was more about the Apple M1, right?
And I would say the Apple M1 is not something
you will see in the cloud, right?
It's basically consumer products
or not something like the Graviton stuff.
If you ask a question about ARM,
kind of, or hitting the Internet business in general,
yeah, true.
Apple M1, also true, I believe,
but Apple M1 is more about consumer.
Hardware, right?
Something like MacBooks and so on, right?
And in this context, I just compared it with something
like desktop or laptop or CPUs,
and this is my statement.
But you're right, Christoph,
and Thomas, I would say, right,
I think we will see a rise of ARM in the cloud as well.
Pretty much.
And Apple, if you're listening,
just put the M1s in into your scalars.
You make money.
And the Apple scalars work with money, too.
So this is what is known in sales as a win-win situation.
Apple, the email address is...
Yeah, because Apple doesn't know how to make money, right?
It's a spy to say, yeah?
It's a very stupid thing.
It's a very stupid thing, okay?
It's a case, they're one of them all.
It's a case they want to make more money.
Yeah.
Ah, yeah.
How can we make more money?
Oh, let's listen to some podcasts.
Yeah, let's listen to Christoph.
Excellent.
Yes, you're already first people.
Okay, moving on.
Well, no, actually, yeah, this is for you, David.
Shakeups in the program language area for 2021.
No, man.
I don't know.
Let me leap around.
Yeah, I guess you will say Russ.
The Russ is the one...
Russ is the one which...
I mean, I tend to agree.
I heard more about Russ than the last one.
Russ is the program language to rules them all.
Yes, that's the one.
Yeah, man.
I don't know, right?
But at least it seems to get some serious traction
because I hear people talking about it.
I hear software engine is talking about it.
And I hear people...
No, not in Chromebach.
In customer meetings and so on.
Anyway, so the...
Yeah, me being in Chromebach, but...
Anyway.
Sorry, I just...
For the people who don't know the thing.
I'm not following this shit, man.
Not following it.
But I hear about it.
Chromebach is a village in...
No, up of a wreck, I can't remember.
In the middle of nowhere, about 200 inhabitants.
So if Russ has made a Chromebach,
which apparently is not the case,
you would be looking at a mainstream language.
Yeah, the problem is we don't have an electricity.
We don't have internet.
We don't have any infrastructure.
Cars, no.
What does a car mean?
It seems to be an issue.
Exactly.
As we already pointed out, right?
And given that, it is really amazing
that I'm doing a podcast.
With you guys.
I'm impressed, David.
Or Thomas the board.
It's so interesting.
Given the fact that we only have...
I don't know, right?
Yeah.
Hems to build and stuff like this, right?
For using electricity.
And this is...
Sorry, this is Bavaria, sorry.
It's not German, it's just Bavaria, that's all.
Yeah, and in Bavaria, we don't believe in Santa Claus,
by the way.
Right, we believe in the Christkindle.
Right.
Ah, there you go.
Not me personally, right?
I still believe in Santa Claus.
Actually, I have to say, yeah, I do, right?
Because I mean...
Because I re-think that Sanct Nikolaus
was a real person, right?
In the past, right?
I don't believe that there is a Coca-Cola version of it,
but it gets for crisis, right?
But...
If Lars had to go by, he sees from X-Rush, I don't know.
So it would make sense, yes.
Yeah, exactly.
It all makes sense.
Yeah, so much for programming languages.
Yeah.
Yeah, going back to the programming language topic,
exactly.
Santa Claus programming language.
So it's Kotlin, or it's Rust, or it's TypeScript, or what?
Depends, right?
It depends for...
I mean, it depends on the use case...
It's called shakeups.
It means shakeups, I mean...
Shakeups.
It's on track, right?
As in this.
Yeah, as in...
As in programming languages, that will rat at the cage.
Yeah, but I mean...
Didn't this already happen?
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I have to think that Rust already
convinced the bigger community and that people expect
that it will win some ground against C++, or whatever,
right, and maybe Goolang.
And so...
So they...
Whatever happens now is basically a little bit expected,
I would say, right or not.
Okay.
So...
And for Kotlin, for instance Kotlin also found its way
into Android development and mobile development stuff, right?
So I don't...
I think they're...
They found their domain, and again, right?
I don't think that there would be big surprises around it.
Let's say, right?
I don't know, maybe they're...
There's this programming language, which I see on Twitter
from time to time, because an old friend of us,
Christoph is working on it, which is sick, sick, right?
Do you ever hear about sick?
Yes, of course I have.
And do you think that sick is getting any ground?
That any...
No, it's getting any ground.
It's not.
Why don't you think so?
I am, I mean...
It doesn't have a community that follows it, apparently,
with comparison to Russ and other languages.
I am a follower of it.
More accidents, but more of an accident, but okay.
So how many projects have you used it so far?
I am...
I'm not saying that I'm using it.
I'm just saying I'm following it, right?
This is a difference.
I'm also not using Rust, right?
So if this is a criteria, then yeah,
Rust will not get any traction because I'm not using it.
This is not what works, right?
I swear...
I mean, just your personal opinion, right?
So you don't think that sick will...
will basically win some land.
I would have my doubts as to put it this way.
Okay.
And why do you think...
I mean, Rust, maybe...
Again, you know more than me about it.
What is the motivation for people to use Rust
over other stuff like C++ or...
There are also multiple versions of C++, right?
What's something like...
Or something like, for instance,
Coolang or whatever, right?
So what is the motivation to use something like Rust instead of that?
If Netflix and methadone doesn't do it for you anymore,
you basically look at Rust because that's the next level of insanity.
Yeah, but this is not an argument, right?
It is.
It is.
It is.
It's an empty phrase.
I mean, in my day-to-day job,
I'm not thinking,
hmm, I wish I had more insanity now.
Yeah.
I wish I had less time.
You see, there was...
And this is publicly known.
If you take a look at the total cost of ownership of a code base,
Rust features quite well.
The learning core...
The learning core of is quite steep.
But the thing is,
all these concepts that Rust have,
like ownership,
like no garbage collection on the rest of it,
ultimately needs to save a code.
And that's exactly why...
Why you see this mainstream...
This mainstream adoption.
The likes of Microsoft and the folks who said,
basically, forget about our old workhouse,
called C++,
we're switching to Rust Bix big time.
That's exactly it.
So, the question, how much of this is actually real?
How much of this is just a community marketing,
and a fancy stuff,
and a totally hip and so on,
and how much of this is real?
So, I can look at something called GitHub.
Yeah, but what should it tell me?
I mean, this...
I mean, what GitHub tells me,
how many people forked it,
or how much people contributed to it,
that's one, right?
But those are...
Those are, in a sense, also, marketing,
biased metrics, right?
Okay, there's a community,
so someone who convinced enough people to find a trendy and cool,
but this doesn't give any,
so my question was a different one.
My question was not, hey, does a trend,
okay, fine, a trend, right?
My question was, why does a trend,
why do people basically say, hey,
I want to use this,
what is the actual value add,
and why is this value there, right?
This is my question.
The value is quite straightforward,
lower total cost of ownership,
lower safer code, and more robust code,
and let me rephrase that question,
or that statement, take a look at the adoption
of something called Rust on GitHub,
code basis over the last two years.
Hmm, I mean, personally,
if you ask me, I don't believe in this one language
to rule them all, right?
So, for instance, I write web applications.
Would I use Rust for that?
Probably not in a million years.
By this method, JavaScript would be a good language, right?
I mean, that's kind of what I was getting at.
I mean, JavaScript, for what I do,
node and JavaScript just makes sense.
It's what the browser understands.
So, you know, I'm just a browser
with a lot of different language.
It's called WASM.
Yeah, I know WebAssembly, yeah, sure.
Excellent.
Yeah, yeah, and I know that.
What are we doing this?
You'll see that, actually,
most adopted language for WebAssembly.
Is it okay?
So, I already know TypeScript.
So, what am I gaining by learning Rust?
I mean, I get it if I start out fresh in the job.
A Porsche too?
Maybe a Tesla?
Right.
And you ask, I'm saying.
Or there you go.
Yeah, so, you know.
But then you can only drive one Tesla at a time.
So, that's okay.
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying.
I mean, yeah, JavaScript works for me.
And if you say Rust doesn't have garbage collection,
then to be honest, that puts me off.
I like garbage collection.
It puts me off.
I like to just new objects up
and not think about a lifecycle.
That works for me.
For some use cases, not for all of us.
If you develop system software,
that's it.
If I was coding a system,
and probably JavaScript would not be my first choice.
You know, it's all about what are we doing here, right?
I mean, it's back to the point that Kotlin basically
is good for something like mobile development Rust is maybe
good for something like system software types,
good for something like web application,
or whatever,
acoustic applications and so on.
That's kind of what I'm saying.
You just mentioned a very important subject there ecosystem.
If you take a look at the growth of the Rust ecosystem
in the last seven years,
I'm almost tempted to say that it took Python 20 plus years.
JavaScript may be 15 years to get through that stage.
I mean, granted, probably JavaScript is with NPM
and all the rest of them is probably the most comprehensive ecosystem
that you have.
But the growth of the code base that you simply can
pull down from crates.io has been enjoying
a significant explosion over the last five years or plus years.
Because the adoption is there.
And I'm not saying that Rust is the language of trust
for ever project.
No, I'm not.
But it's certainly,
it keeps growing on the WebAssembly site.
It's certainly entering the server side big time.
And it's really competing with JavaScript and friends there.
Don't get me wrong.
Plus more and more people are actually taking a look at how
you can combine Python, for example, with Rust.
And there's also a company called Redis.
I don't know if that brings a bell.
That has this no SQL database out there.
Where actually some people said that in contrast
to the previous implementation language,
for something called modules,
which are simply a sub extension.
We're going to use,
we're going to use,
exactly we're going to use Rust in,
in favor of in contrast to C,
because of the apparent advantages that Rust brings with it.
Yeah, but so I,
I would never write a standard API application
in a non garbage collected language
because why, right?
So for plug-in for something like database
where performance is super, super critical,
and can't sort of be easily just scaled up
by throwing iron edit.
Right?
That makes sense.
That's probably the right use case.
But for me,
now screw that.
I'm just out of interest to how many programming languages
do you guys come across in your,
you know, experience with your customers
and things like that?
Do you see Rust?
Do you see,
I mean, you,
you're developing obviously.
The enterprise customers,
I always saw,
honestly, with enterprise customers,
I saw C, C++, Java,
and if it was a .net shop,
.net,
or a shop,
C shop,
C shop,
bit of Python,
and Python,
Python mostly for something like automation
and stuff like that,
right?
So in Python,
I didn't see,
or in data science,
indeed, right?
But I didn't see Python for,
in production for,
for any,
any action service,
same for Node.js.
I only saw Node.js for something like toy projects
or whatever, right?
Never in a production system.
Maybe,
maybe some startups I worked with in the past,
right?
There were prospects or customers
who used something like Node.js or Python
to do fancy stuff, right?
But for the big enterprise companies I worked with,
it was mainly our C, C++,
Java,
and for some companies that were,
.net shops for the enterprise of fair, right?
Not something like,
or data science,
or automation,
or whatever,
the action enterprise of fair was basically,
yeah.
C, C++,
Java,
or the net, right?
Yeah, so,
I mean, how much changes there in this,
and if we consider the amount of programs
that work in this field,
you know,
a small amount of people
that have a bit of a play with Rust
is probably not significant
in the whole scheme of things.
But,
it's a great language on off there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
It lives currently on runs
on a few machines,
anyways,
so don't worry about it.
Exactly.
That's an AC.
Exactly.
That's the,
this is the next language.
Right now,
on the 2020 state
of the developer ecosystem report
by JetBrains,
by the way, right?
It's a bit outdated,
but Rust was basically
at something like,
what do they say here?
Used in the last 12 months,
Rust was
behind Quadman.
Maybe this changed
in a sense,
right?
Yes.
Basically,
7%,
Quadven at 17%,
because of the entry to adoption, right?
Then,
our bash was 39% Java
is 54%.
So,
actually,
5%, right?
Yeah.
Basically, 54%,
Python,
55%, right?
SQL 56,
I'm not sure if this is actually
a program language.
HTML,
CSS,
60,
61,
and JavaScript was 70%, right?
So, we used.
So,
and now,
this doesn't tell you anything
about enterprise projects, right?
This is basically just the,
let's say,
the overall usage,
which means the report is,
the report is a bit misleading,
because they are,
they are probably
a lot of
projects that use JavaScript
in the front end,
and so on, right?
And there's maybe
a lot less
system software,
which could potentially
use Rust,
let's say.
But,
so, if Rust is basically
something which is going to be
replaced C, right?
Then,
C,
or C++,
yeah, C++
has 27%,
right?
So,
so,
so,
so now,
right,
let's say,
we've got a lot less
script test,
70%.
So, now,
back to Thomas point,
how do you judge,
you,
this,
this four-querming
which in the context of this
question,
and I,
I guess,
context,
matter was in this case, right?
So, yeah.
I mean,
just take a look at,
take a look at,
look at something called
the interest,
sorry, the interest of the
the same, right? And we'll tell you, hey, maybe based on the
actual overall usage of the pro-prem language in the world,
something like JavaScript is dominating, but no one uses it
for actual enterprise projects, right? In the back end,
at least, more on the front end and so on, right? But this
doesn't, I mean, such statistics doesn't tell you anything
about the quality of the programming language and so on,
right? And the question is, in which context does it produce
any noise, let's say, right? And what you say, okay,
Rust is producing noise, maybe for developing systems
software, maybe it does in the, in the names community,
maybe it does in the, in the database communities, right?
Because it's something which is used there, right? But Thomas
has a point, right? Someone who is basically developing,
right now in Java, or in .NET, or let's say, right, or
Kotlin, he wouldn't use Rust if there is no garbage
collection, because you would like to have some comfort
when developing software. You don't want to, to, to me, to
basically dispose your, your objects manually and so on,
for stuff like that, right? So for something like, hey,
maybe system software, where you go really down to maybe
dealing with memory, allocation, or whatever, right? It makes
totally sense to basically do this manually, right? But not
for every context. And it doesn't make sense at all, from my
point of view, for something like, like, front end stuff,
which is running in the browser, right?
People check in about five years time, one day, it has been
proven wrong.
Oh, yeah, we're still using all of them. I'm sure that, I'm
pretty sure people that use TypeScript in the browser.
Oh, yeah, okay. Okay. The, the one which will get more
traction in the browser will be TypeScript, maybe, right?
Actually, I guess, and then JavaScript will still be
around and, right, and Rust will basically have its
community, but, but all the respect, right? We all live in
all about this, Christoph, right? And of course, we do more,
is more than Linux ecosystem and okay, fine, maybe there's a
lot of noise there around Rust. Fine, makes it. But, yeah,
given the fact that Linux is a tiny operating system with a
tiny market share anyway. So, yeah, fine, forget about it.
Yeah, but, yeah, but this is not the question, man, right?
The question is not here. How big is Linux or not, right?
The question is, what other software is out there beyond Linux
on there is a lot of other software out there, which can be
procrept in a lot of different programming languages. And
the dominating stuff is not, is, is not the Linux kernel,
let's say, if it comes to the mass of software, which is
out there, the dominating stuff is the software, which is
basically utilizing it somewhere on the meat indeed, right?
But, so, so meaning Java's group, for instance, has for
a reason 70% here. And, no worries, has for a reason 7%
right? Yeah, that's even even though 100% of my code actually
ends up running on Linux, I code against no JS. So the code
could just as well run on Windows. So, yeah, fine, that's
precisely the reason why a guy called David bear recently made
the switch from cobalt to Java about 7 years ago. I don't
know who that is, I have to go to that. I can't do me, I mean,
anyway, but I'm trying to go be from Java to Kotlin, but
wait, because I like, as a language more, and it's completely
competitive with my, David, we already have established the
fact that you're becoming a hipster rapidly, so no worries.
Have a hipster right. This isn't even a hipster, right? So, I
like Kotlin, right? And what does this anyway mean, right? I
mean, if you're saying rest is much more popular and all the
cool kids are using rest now, and it will be used in the
weapon, blah, blah, blah, right? On you, the hipster instead of
meat, right? No, I'm not. Wow. And I'm not the
African. By the way, you are using an M1 since a year or so, or
no, others, it was released, right? Whenever this was. Yeah,
I have choice, I went for an M1, because I think it's a
cool machine. You hit store you. Thomas, if Thomas, look, if
you're listening to the email, you're supposed to add
a little thing or so to you. Give us the fact that we are
probably reaching about four hours recording time. No, we
should probably move to last question, which is actually the
biggest prediction for 2021 as of last year. Linus and
Los continues to be the primary podcast. Martin's
prediction, sponsorship will come from Apple, Microsoft, and
IBM. Martin, I think you failed on that one. Or did you?
We're happy. Did you not get the memory? No, I didn't.
Yeah, it's the reason that all the money is going
on. It's curious. It just appeals to you.
Conhees to be the primary podcast, the primary podcast for
whom for you guys or. For the open source world. For the
open source world. I find the question a bit misleading,
right? It's there's continues to be the primary podcast.
Anyway, it's still is. No worries. Okay. So our target audience
isn't sort of limited to the open source world. So it would be
good extension of us, if we sort of annex your podcast and
bring it all together into one. Very nice. So that's my
prediction. We already established the fact that grumpy
cord is not an open source podcast. Yes. No, that's my
prediction. Hostile will take over. We'll take what is
by the way, what is qualifying this podcast? I mean, just
wondering, what have been criteria? That we've talked about
open source issues. Yeah, sure. And so if we talk about open
source issues, then we are an open source podcast, but we also
talk now about M1s and so on, right? M1s doesn't have anything
to do with open source. This is the grumpy cordless
intruding, but that's okay. We can't deal with it. That's
awful. Sorry. I totally feel ashamed of right. No, I'm okay
with that. Yeah, so all the code, all the strange commercial
proposals here, right, made in this podcast were actually in
real, our ideas. So if these are others want to send checks
right then please send them to grumpy would go whatever goes
fine, but I mean, I'm not sure if it comes to two podcasts to be
almost. Yeah, yeah, no, they couldn't default that pretty sure
not.
So biggest prediction for 2021. Oh, 2022, let's make it
biggest. Oh, yeah. This is a question to us, or
it is. It doesn't have to be open source related. That's almost
it's
I'm not sure what would be the biggest predictions, maybe, maybe
the graphic cards prices, we go down, right?
I can't imagine the prediction that is the hope. Yeah,
it's a wishful thinking, David. Yeah, exactly. And maybe I
will be able to finally buy a PlayStation 5 or Xbox
music.
Anyway, I'm not sure. I mean, what was what was trending in our
conversations are in the past or Thomas, I think we talked a lot
of about about ML ops, right? So basically productionizing
or something, yeah, machine learning and stuff like this. In the
context of data engineering and so on. And I guess this is
something which will kind of maybe it already does, right? But
maybe it's a bit influx and I guess we will see more like that,
right? We basically see that this is more consolidated
architectures are more consolidated. That's stuff like stuff
like feature stores and so on. We'll be more well known and
kind of be part of normal application or landscapes, right? Or
this stuff will maybe converge a little bit, right? Because
so something like, I mean, something like ML AI or stuff
that just become part of normal data pipelines, right? Maybe
you will not call it out at some point, it will be commodity
in the sense that it will be operated the same way as other
stuff out there, right? And there will be some common patterns
that will be established, right? Definitely have the
investment more sort of custom made chips for machine learning.
We already have a couple of those, but only more investment
into that specialized hardware for machine learning. So
that's still very strong. Maybe even the term ML ops
with some point disappearing, but just converge with whatever
or death ops is right now, right? Just being extended as a
concept in a sense, right? So I think this will
consolidate over the time in a sense, right? So this is my
maybe not next year, but my prediction is that AI ML
as it is right now, right? So maybe so simply, I am a
stuff not the not the strong AI.
Indeed, we'll become we'll become to a degree
commodity that we don't basically pipe it that much anymore.
And in this context, we will have also some
patterns emerging that will basically be normally used, right?
Like for instance, feature stores is a good point.
Any other predictions for next year?
Before we come to the feedback,
I mean, in which context? I mean, something which you
can see right for next year, which I basically for looking
forward to this and what is already the case in the sense
and which will continue that way is that something like
tech wise, right? Electric cars, for instance, will become
completely commodity, right? So it's already partially the
case, but right now it's like, oh yeah, it has a
Tesla and so on, right? And everyone associates this stuff
with fancy, fancy things and so on.
Maybe it's just me, but I just went a few weeks ago to my
car dealer, because I had to print my car into the garage,
and they basically had just as normal, right?
As every single other car or electric car in the showroom,
which just looked as any normal car, right?
So now, which brings the point up why I should find
Tesla is any more fancy, right? If other, I mean,
maybe there's good reason why I should, but anyway,
something like this will also be more commodity.
I mean, I guess my point is just that stuff which is now
fancy or absorbs the fancy in this year will be more
commodity in some cases next year, I'm not sure if this is
if this is actually fair, if this is any state.
It's actually not any statement, but it's the best I can do right now.
That's okay. You can go with electric cars,
become mainstream, how does that say?
Yeah, yeah, maybe they are already, but maybe not.
Maybe not. What is your opinion about this, Christoph?
Martin. I don't have, I don't have the little car,
so contrary to tell, at the moment, I reckon here in
Frankfurt, where I live, you don't see that many cars
and the infrastructure is hard. I just took a electric car for a spin
about two weeks ago, just for the weekend, and it was quite
disappointing, basically, the challenges that I
overcome with regards to rechanging the car,
having to plan my route carefully between, between
recharging points, because unlike, even if I stuck,
if I stuck to major road, motorways in this country,
as an Autobahn, as that one in Germany, you have to plan your route carefully,
because sometimes the loading dogs, as in recharging dogs,
are incompatible, there are difficulties with the payment system,
so you really have to plan ahead, unlike, basically, where you have your petrol
power car, where you simply can drive up to a petrol station and simply put petrol
in the tank. I find that's overly complicated.
Yeah, or the, anyway, yeah, honestly, to be fair, that should be outlawed, right?
So that electric charging stations are incompatible
between car brands, that's just absolutely stupid,
and I think the government should outlaw that,
that should not be a union should properly do this. I mean, in your case,
whatever you do in the UK, right? I hope there's a union, basically.
I also know one who has an electric car, and he has a set of
adopters, right? Which is also a little bit fair.
Really? So, basically, a set of adopters are the case that he does.
It's like, you do all the models in this year.
But he's like, this is the new technology, right? But anyway, I mean, if you go,
or again, right, you go to maybe any car people right now,
they will have electric cars, and they show rooms the same way as normal cars,
and they look exactly the same way, right? So, meaning, or at least a friend, which I
think that you don't see a big difference, and I was really impressed by that, right?
I was like, okay, hey, well, so it looks totally commodity now, right?
Nothing fancy, no fancy design in the man's, in addition, or whatever,
right? In order to say, hey, if you're a hypermotor, or whatever, right?
It was just looking as any normal car, just electric electrical charged, and I think this
the future, and why I don't forward to it. That's right. I will buy one as soon as the infrastructure
is better. Okay, moving on to the feedback. I think we have still quite a few emails coming in.
So, for example, a guy called Donald writes in, it lost. I'm looking for your expertise on
setting up a social media platform called Truth. I mean, is this no use, or is this like the
last name of this guy is Trump? No, whatever. I'm just kidding there. Apparently, he has some troubles,
if I understand this email correctly, here's some troubles with regards to setting up a
Macedon clone, and I'm just wondering if we can help him there, Martin, what do you think?
Who is this? A guy called Donald, and it says, P-O-T-U-S.
Doesn't sound one of our usual business. Is he anyone?
Don't know. Apparently, there was a fuck-up with regards to Macedon a couple of weeks back.
I'm just wondering what we should do with the email.
Right, he didn't get banned from any other social media, did he?
Apparently, that is the case. Oh, no. So, I ruined your joke by referring to Trump. Sorry.
He guessed the punchline. Oh, my god.
But it was maybe just too obvious, just the upright. Wow, being to guess the criticize
into jokes. Oh, good. Make any friends here, Jesus.
Maybe do the next. The next, the next email comes from an alias by the name of Thomas
who writes in.
I'm bored with my podcast because I don't know. Oh, it's what can you do about it?
You don't know what?
No, Thomas, Thomas writes it basically. I'm bored with my own podcast.
It's all about grumpy old, it's about grumpy old culture.
It's like, it's about old coding experience. Can you help me here?
Thomas, that wouldn't be you defecting. No, would it?
I don't know. No, no. Of course not.
So, how would you help me? I mean, Thomas.
Rust, rust, rust, rust, rust, you, you, you, you, rust.
Wonderful, the problem is useless. The email address is applications,
a little bit in our study, you, rust, you need to apply as well.
Oh, it's too much effort. Yes, I think Thomas might say.
Yes, the next email comes from a Mrs. Visser. Funny enough.
It says here, please, can you help me?
My husband is way too much around me since he's between jobs and he doesn't spend as much time
as he used to on mining his computer infrastructure zoo.
Into all sorts of problems. Oh, we have lots of advice for that, don't we?
Martin, it sounds like an automation to rust, isn't it?
Yeah, Martin, that wouldn't be your wife now, would it?
No, thanks, sir. I'm just checking.
Because, by the way, it's not funny anymore if you call it indirectly, right?
Anyway, it's like, when did you open somebody at least?
She didn't, she didn't show, she didn't choose to be anonymous, so that's okay.
Martin, that sounds pretty much like you because, well, that has been,
there have been certain infrastructure challenges since when it this way.
Oh, there have been some, you've been to upgrade challenges.
But it's funny that you're right, that your wife actually writes, writes into podcasts.
And Martin, there's another note from such a big sense.
Martin, you just get serious, Martin, there's another note and apparently this is just
rest to me. A certain Marcus Brown said that he's not impressed with his performance,
but he uses an email address called Marcus.brown at jva a dot bern.de, Martin, what the f**k?
Marcus Brown. Yes, you didn't hire Marcus Brown for the head of, as the head of marketing.
No, no, no, no, no. As a signature might imply.
I didn't hire any, I'm not seeing the petrol fit.
Martin, you know, Marcus, do you know who Marcus Brown is?
Sounds like a baseball player or something.
And that's the name why I can't ring a bell.
Yes, he used to be the CEO of South Campus.
Martin, Martin, you didn't hire the guy that blew 1.5 billion euros, did you?
No, yeah. Anyway, I mean, the jokes reside, right? And I actually really enjoyed dark humor and so on,
but I re-enjoyed having this episode with you, right? It was a bit like, how did Thomas
say in one of our last episodes, like, walk into the woods, or how did you phrase it, Thomas?
Oh, yeah, I said that's about being lost in the woods, but I don't remember the exact words.
Yeah, so I think it was very a talk in a sense, which is maybe, well, because we didn't prepare
well enough, but I really liked being here, like, willing here, and having just so...
That's the point.
Yeah, okay, fine, but sometimes maybe we should.
Why?
I think it went fine.
Yeah, I like being together with you guys, right? I literally do, I mean, it's always fun,
it's always a little bit funny to kind of have to do the sarcastic vibes, that's one.
Oh, we got some feedback from Beacue.
Yes.
Why don't you read the letters?
Okay, what is it? Beacue says, hello, Dr. Zimmerman and Martin, listening to episode
SC01E43E, the great battle or not, I kind of felt like an Aussie batsman facing
curtly embryos in Perth on January 13, 1993. There you go.
It was all incomprehensible and went straight to my head.
Reminded the distance, what episode 43 was?
That was actually the discussion with Professor Mara on databases.
Aha, there we go.
Okay, that's a very apt bit of feedback right on time.
Now, don't get me wrong here, it was my inability that was to be blamed and not the way
in which Martin and one of the Grumpy old coder explained the concept behind the hipster databases.
That Ambrose reference might go over the head of our American listeners as they don't know
much about this florist came called cricket.
Well, cricket is vastly superior and evolved from something America's known as baseball.
Right, oh, there we go. He also mentions, I recently can cross a disadvantage of using
proprietary platform. I suggested the Grumpy old coder park as to a friend and he tried to
subscribe it via antenna pod on his Android device but the tracker blocking mechanism on his phone
did not allow him to subscribe. So Grumpy old coders, you need to think about your publishing
medium. Right. It seems to be being blocked by antenna pod or such.
I told you Martin that soundcloud is crap.
Oh, don't tell me tell the Grumpy coder.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm a savior. I think I was over, right?
I'm sorry, even a point. I said David, it's my David.
Oh, David, David, I told you that soundcloud is crap.
No, you didn't, but it's okay, right? So I think for the most of the users out there,
right? I'm not sure, man, right? We are not an open source podcast as you already pointed out,
right? So we assume that people will be able to use either soundclouds, Spotify or Apple
podcasts, and if not, are there as a website, which is called crumpywoodquarters.org,
which is embedding all our episodes or nicely into a player where someone can basically just
press play if he wants to listen to it, right? That's it.
Yeah, I'm actually trying it just now if I can see it in Google podcasts, actually,
I've never tried that. So I think I'm not sure if we have a podcast because what we need to do is,
I mean, the way how it usually works out for everyone who wants to do podcasts or that,
the only thing you need is an RSS feed, right? Soundcloud is giving you this RSS feed, you register
this RSS feed with something like Spotify, with something like, for instance, Apple podcasts, right?
Oh, you need to do it once. And then as soon as you have registered it, or they will basically
update there until databases, and it will be visible to you, right? And I'm not sure if we
would have needed to do the same with Google podcasts, but no, if it just worked, I just
entered it from the old coders and here it is, and I can subscribe, so it just works.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, automatically it seems.
The feed on the website, David prefers actually to soundcloud.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, the website basically has an embedded player, you can play it from there,
right? And the feed, which I'm basically having on soundcloud, I'm basically telling other
services like Apple podcasts or Spotify to basically just pull it and they do it, and then they
kind of host it, or re-host it, or whatever it works, right? And yeah, people can use whatever
service they would like to use it. Maybe it doesn't work with this one, which you mentioned,
but I never tried it with this one, right? But it worked quite well so far with Spotify,
it works so far quite well, it's all in cloud, it worked quite well with Apple podcasts,
and it seems to work with Google podcasts as well, right? I mean, there are plenty of ways
how you can listen to it, right? Given that we don't have thousands of listeners, I guess,
it should be fine. Unlike us, exactly.
Okay.
Martin, remind me we should get a Discord server up and running because this is exactly what they have.
Yeah, it worked well so far.
It worked really well. Were you not recording separately before?
We still are, so we've not tried to recording over Discord here,
but just as a general comparison, just for the communication, exactly.
So we invite guests to it, for instance, as you know, right? And then we kind of communicate
via Discord. We actually even have Discord now has also events, so I put our event here into our
Discord server, so Thomas and I don't forget about it. I know we're not necessarily because
they're also calendars and so on, but it's actually nice to have one single place where we have this
event, right? For podcast recording, and this is basically now, let's say, our Discord.
I mean, we don't have a big community in Discord, by the way, only a few people joined this,
and most of them are known by us, so meaning there's nearly no community in Discord, so we didn't
work out that way, let's say, right? I would like to have more people basically going there and
just joining, but on the other hand, given that our podcast is just a little bit of fun we are
having, given that I'm actually not too... Yeah, I like the fact that we have some listeners,
let's say, right? So it is okay, right? It's beyond my expectations.
Which is maybe because my expectations are at the time, but yeah, I don't know.
Episode 1 has 186 listeners at all, plays, whatever it just means, right? I'm not sure how many
bots are there out there doing this, but I think the best one is the one about Open World,
which is interesting, right? Funny, that, which has 215 people. David, I wonder why that is.
Yeah, exactly, I wonder why this is. It's basically more or less twice as much, right? Which is
interesting, so maybe your user base is more or less as big as all users. Maybe it's just a title,
people downloading it, and listening to it, oh my god, it's just not about gaming at all, you know.
Also that was a big one.
According with Kotlin, Kotlin also got some traction, 190 listeners, right?
Okay, the Dark Side 123, right, actually got good feedback about this one.
That was an excellent episode, never mind the number of people who listened to it.
Oh, wow, thank you.
Yeah, but also, he's very kind. Thank you, people that are not from the tech industry, right?
Which was a bit interesting, so people reached out to me, our colleagues and friends, and so on,
that were not from the tech industry by, we're saying, hey, yeah, we listened to this one,
oh, because we found it interesting.
Blayton, Slayton, plug, people, if there's one episode you should listen to from the
Grappiolcorders, that's the one, apart from the just released one about women attack.
These are the two main episodes that you should listen to.
I'm almost tempted to say, forget about the rest, but that wouldn't picture it.
No, these two episodes are the prime, are the prime of the ones.
I agree with that.
Yeah, I think these are certainly the ones I most proud of.
So, so yeah, so thank you for saying that.
Job, well done.
They are, they're not going to take it all, right?
Which is exactly, no, I mean, this is exactly it.
I mean, don't get me wrong, that net is very important.
But these two episodes have reached out to me way beyond the technical audience,
especially the dog side.
I mean, fair enough, you stole title from us because we
all want to have dogs attack the board.
But yes, like, accidently.
Have you lost it?
No worries.
Yes, something.
No worries.
No worries, no worries, no worries.
But that's the, but our two dogs as are actually are completely different anyway,
so that doesn't matter.
But the subject is highly relevant.
And that's exactly why I truly recommend listening to that episode,
because you touched upon this in a very unique way.
Oh, that's my opinion.
Oh, that's so kind.
Thank you so much.
And banter aside, because this is what matters.
Things people will be in the show notes.
Yeah, cool.
I mean, really, thank you very much.
Again, we usually do this just to have fun.
In this case, we just thought, and maybe this is the reason why it is better than the rest
in a sense, right?
We just thought that it kind of makes sense to talk about it, right?
Because it was a kind of inner feeling,
which we wanted to kind of transfer in a sense, right?
To just discuss it, and maybe the woman in tech stuff is also in the same category,
that there is an issue that not enough women are in our industry, right?
So if you look at the issue there, it's interesting to see that, right?
And if we remember our time at uni, Thomas, I think we were, how many students,
maybe 160?
Oh, yeah.
160 started in this group, and we had, I don't know, three women, right?
Three women amongst them, something like that, right?
Oh, don't remind me, yeah.
Dark times in that regard.
What's fun still, but yeah.
Yeah, and I mean, I'm not regarding, I mean, not about fun or whatever,
but it's, it's, it's kind of a problem to see that, or this stuff doesn't attract enough
female versions, and I think this is not just a problem, problem of the university or whatever,
right? It's a problem regarding the world mindset, right? That's a, yeah.
I'd say girls or young women already kind of, or in the past at least, very little bit,
I'm given the impression that this is more for, for men, let's say, right?
Yeah, it's such a shame. I mean, there are so many potential, great female engineers out there,
who just, who just never get there, because societal pressures or, you know, gender roles
just sealed away from it, and it's, it's an absolute disaster. It's an absolute shame, and we
must do something about it. I mean, you can't rescue the world, but if, if something like
those two episodes are a nice type of product of having, having conversations once a month,
or whatever, right? You're talking about having a lot of fun doing this, and also doing stuff
like this with the links and most, as we do right now, right? I mean, then, then this is
a good addition, I would say, right? So it's more than we expected in a sense, right?
Trust the fact that, of course, Elena, the author doubles as a voice actress on certain episodes
on the rocks, right? And really like the vegan vampire stuff.
Vegan vampires, listen to vegan vampires. Yeah, this is the Halloween episode of this year.
Okay, that sounds fun. I'll make a note. By the way, well, I mean, now that we are in this mood of
making compliments instead of fighting me for a slightly different genre, it's, um, that was more
trees. It was really tense all year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, it was fun. Was it? Okay.
It was just fun. I think we all know. It was banter. No.
So I really liked the episode about where you did this role-playing game. This was the
Halloween one, right? So this kind of Star Trek role-playing game, well done, guys. I think this
was really creative. So honestly, I would not be able to do it, right? Because I'm not like an
actor or whatever, and I'm not feeling like an actor. I'm always more like a talking just
whatever comes to my mind. And so, and I guess what you do there is a lot of preparation in order to
basically do this, right? And I really enjoyed listening to it, right?
For feedback. Oh, so it's fun. I must listen to it. Yeah, it was really great.
I haven't. Okay. Not yet. No. I'm very busy. All right. I'm very busy. I make a note to listen to it.
It's a very very busy, right? Okay, guys, we're clocking in about way more than two hours
than it's been more than four and a half. Yeah. We'd love you to have you on the
to have you back, maybe January, maybe February, depending on your schedule. I'm joking.
Needless to say, we are a game to do in vice versa. Just let us know.
Yeah, it sounds good. I'd love to do that. Yeah. Okay, guys.
You can't look so short. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having us. It was great fun.
And thank you. And speak to you soon. Take care. Yeah. See you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
This is the Linux Enloss. You come for the knowledge. But stay for the madness. Thank you for listening.
This podcast is licensed under the latest version of the Creative Commons license. Tap
attribution share like credits for the entry music. Go to bluesy roosters for the song
Salute Margot to twin flames for their peace called the flow used for the second intros.
And finally to the lesser ground for the songs we just is used by the dark side.
You find these and other ditties license under Creative Commons at your Mando. The website
dedicated to liberate the music industry from choking corporate legislation and other crap concepts.
Oh
So what is this again, right? I mean this meeting software is claiming the tools again now.
So this is running big, big, big concrete, but not the evidence.
That's new, oh, maybe here I can do it in the browser.
I mean, where can you set the audio device? I mean, it's a conference software, right?
You should be able to set your audio device.
Yes, if you click on the system tray, which is in your lower right hand corner, David,
a little speaker, but a little speaker icon if you're on something called Windows.
Is he on Windows again?
No, I'm on Mac.
I'm on Mac, but the thing is, I want to select the device in the tool, right?
What the fuck? I mean, why should I do this? Why the system?
The tool should basically have access to this, right?
It's just in settings, right?
Anyway.
I'm not sure where to get beer from. I'm in the studio.
Fridge?
Fridge?
No, I'm in my...
By the way, why are you always using David M as your nickname?
This is totally confusing.
That's the whole point.
So maybe I take this as a compliment.
Of course, of course, nothing else.
I'm not sure, guys.
How much of the last part of the conversation do we keep in the podcast?
Honestly, I mean, we don't need to keep something like when I talk about our numbers or whatever, right?
I guess this is unnecessary.
Whatever you would like, but, yeah.
We should be ended now and just say goodbye and leave it to you to the post-processing world.
How do we do that?
Oh, that's you want to volunteer.
You didn't tell me.
No, no, no, no.
You're marketing department.
No, we didn't tell you about that.
Yes, but this episode just went live.
We're streaming.
I don't think so.
It was worth a try.
It was, man.
Okay.
Thank you for me.
For a reason called radio, right, anyway.
Communism is great.
Yes.
Just working on the guy.
Communism is really, really great.
Again, I...
So now we are doing this political stuff again, right?
So meaning I'm not against the concept of communism, right?
Oh, you got him.
I just truly believe that the mankind is not ready for it.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
People that we are recording now, the fourth hour of the...
Let's talk about communism now.
Yeah, but it's not my fault.
It would only be another far.
The worst part.
So this is the world record with regards to the longest...
Linnons in Los Episodes.
We're talking about roughly eight hours uncut.
Directly cut.
Directly cut.
The rest may be after the outro anyway.
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