Episode: 1964
Title: HPR1964: 2015-2016 HPR New Years Show Episode 4
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1964/hpr1964.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 12:36:56

---

This is HBR Episode 1964 entitled HBR New Year's Show Episode 4.
It is hosted by HBR Volunteers and is about 185 minutes long.
The summer is cheap computers, arm, audio book club, lights, living, orando, etching,
pronunciation, pranks.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by AnanasThost.com.
At 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15, that's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at AnanasThost.com.
And for you gentlemen, who don't recognize Poké, the original hacker public radio New Year's
Eve show was his concept what five years ago?
Oh I almost forgot about that, sorry I know seriously though I didn't mean to change the subject
that's why I was typing it instead of piping up and saying.
So who's this bookie guy anyway?
Yeah I'm not sure who he is either.
What's up dude, long time no see.
Yeah how you been?
Last time I heard or we spoke anyway handsome pirate, you were making headway over at Red Hat.
How's that going?
No longer there I'm kind of bouncing around now.
Oh I'm sorry.
Well let's start with that did know who I am.
No no no I wasn't.
Are you is it a good bounce handsome pirate?
It's been an adventure for sure.
Yeah adventures are great when you have a home base to return to them.
I'm always awesome when your adventure is finding a home base though.
Guys it's just about to be New Year's in New York and Boston and the east coast of the US.
Yeah right here.
Yes and down here, town south, Robbins Air Force Base, Warner Robbins Georgia, happy New Year.
They're already blowing the fireworks.
Oh it even blowing fireworks here for hours.
You guys aren't dropping bombs on anybody are you?
No bombs, no bombs, that everybody in town is former military.
Geez I thought I was going to be artillery.
What kind artillery you got?
They didn't sound like fireworks through the window.
That sounded like the video of the kid with the sledgehammer and the fireworks date to the front of it.
That sounded like a 50 cal to me.
Well happy New Year, it just turned you know 0 o'clock.
Yep it was an old clock.
Uh 10 or 5 in there actually.
Happy 2015 and the first part of the United States to...
No happy 2016 I'm sorry.
Yep it's 2016 here.
Don't worry it'll be 2015 for the next week or so until you get used to 2016.
Yeah if you still ain't going to exit your will.
So handsome pirate is that the year of the Linux desktop?
Oh well all my systems it is.
That's no joke.
That's good enough for me.
Is it the year of...
Well let's see the fireworks fairings were not bothering that much anymore.
They were having problems.
Sometimes it's just something to play thing or whatever.
So anybody who wants to play is feeling that we have the added potential of sort of going anywhere
if we're talking kind of main thing or not full play if you like.
Whether everybody have to do everything.
The question is is it going to have the conversions this year?
Is it going to be good enough?
Are there suddenly going to be more apps in the app store and things like that?
Otherwise it is quite nice or ready to be honest.
Which app?
The reading?
So I missed what you said.
We're building a new fan.
We're building a touch.
Lapse store.
We're with Lapse accidentally.
But it has some stuff and the abandoned fan is quite nice.
Actually we're ready but the convince is what everyone's waiting for.
Really the Linux phone is going to be the Ubuntu phone.
That's like everybody's happy with that.
Everybody thought Android is not good enough.
We want that and it got two and two and everything.
Yeah that's one.
I mean like a full player so let's say we've got high phone and roads when those things
just about okay maybe like as we're just about a full full player.
That could be a abandoned phone because the other Linux phone
I'm really going to do that I think.
I know bye.
It's funny.
Yeah I got this free.
I'm going to disagree completely and say that
this whole discussion started with Linux on the desktop.
Well I'm sorry to tell you guys but 2014 and 2015 where
the year of Linux on the desktop
in the form of a desktop computer okay well a laptop close enough
with a Linux kernel and a proprietary use land and everything else
in the form of a Chromebook.
And this year 2015 well last year now
that has been a massively growing especially in the education sector
and you know this has been the year of Linux on the desktop
albeit not as we envisaged.
I'll disagree with that.
I've got to disagree with you there.
I'm in the market right now for a laptop computer that will run Linux
and it's never been more difficult.
I used to run Macon to GNU slash Linux.
It used to be like GNU slash Linux not Linux.
Linux kernel has been doing well
but you're talking about GNU slash Linux.
I don't know if you like it.
It's GNU slash Linux.
I agree with that as well.
But what do you think it's hard to find a Linux computer?
Well there are Linux computers.
There's a central world UK movies in the US.
You can see movies and systems 76 in America.
The thing is they're quite pricey those computers
really compared to if you buy some respects
when Windows preinstalled.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I can well first of all absolutely GNU slash Linux
six peers in.
So I'm going to abbreviate it to Linux from here on in.
You guys know what I'm talking about.
But also I can go buy a Windows laptop
for 200 to 250 bucks at Walmart.
But will it run Linux?
GNU slash Linux?
Probably not.
Probably not right out of the box.
It's probably going to have issues
and they're crazy issues that I didn't seem to use to have before.
Yes, I can go buy a system 76 or as a reason.
But those seem to start around 1200 bucks.
Not 200 bucks.
So there's a huge difference there and that's a problem.
And I mean I've been very, very depressed for the last
I don't know year or two anytime I think about Linux
because to me you know the year the Linux desktop.
I don't know man it feels like Linux is dead
and it's that upsets me terribly because I cannot find.
I can't go out like a friend of mine wants a laptop
and he wants it to run Linux.
And he wants me to be in charge of that.
I cannot go out and spend his money on a laptop
and hand it to him and say this is the Linux laptop.
Not without spending a fortune 1200 bucks.
He just wants to surf the internet.
That's not fair to him and it's not fair to me.
Yeah, I think that's the issue right there.
I was to enter.
I thought yes, this is good.
This is good.
These laptops are good for what you get.
The Linux file hang on a minute.
There's a lot more expensive than if I had bought something
machine when those people never put a Linux on myself.
We used to have a really good figure
of the five American firework.
We're talking this down.
It sounds really good.
Oh.
Yeah, but look, this is old question.
What price can you put on freedom?
And the answer is about 1200 bucks.
It's as simple as that.
That's the price that freedom costs you.
My buddy does not want a laptop to be free.
He's not care about software freedom.
He wants a laptop that runs Linux
because he understands that Windows is bullshit
and he understands that I will support
a Windows laptop for him
but I will not do the same with the Windows.
So it's not software freedom.
He's interested in
and it's not a $1,200 price tag.
He's interested in what he wants
is a computer that works.
What's that worth?
You're scaring me some, Poke,
because I haven't found a computer
in, you know, nearly 10 years
that I can't just slap Linux on
and it just works.
What's with these new computer?
I mean, if I had $200 to spend on a laptop,
first I would be looking in the used market
because I can it'll go a lot farther
for a used laptop than a brand new $200
laptop at Walmart.
But, man, you're scaring me that, you know,
we've had no problem putting Linux on for years
that now we're going backward.
I'm not talking about buying a used laptop.
This is for somebody else.
This is for someone who I have angelized to
who I said,
let's only run Linux from now on
because I'm not going to help with Windows anymore
because I don't like it.
So, he wants a new piece of hardware
because his old one is crappin' out on him.
He's been running Linux on the laptop
he has now since the day it was new.
I do not believe he ever saw Windows on that.
If my memory is correct,
when we bought that, it was shipped to my house
and I put Linux on it,
I don't think either of us ever saw Windows running on it.
And it had driver issues,
it had problems and he suffered
through all kinds of shit while I worked it out.
And at this point,
I don't think he's willing to go through that again
to go through a year and a half to two year,
you know, driver adjustment period,
you know, now that his hardware is dying.
I mean, he's had the thing for six years.
I can't blame him.
So, I can't go out right now
and buy an HP or a Dell or an Acer
or whatever and expect it to work.
You find me one that you can,
that you are willing to spend
somebody else's money on and expect it to work 100%
in all the ways that they expect the computer to work
and I will buy that laptop for him today
because he is telling me he wants a new laptop today.
I mean, I've had some minor things like fingerprint,
sorry, fingerprint readers on my last one
and, you know, like SD card reader.
And all I have to do is get a $3 USB
SD card that's not a thing to work.
We want, no, that's not going to work.
A fingerprint reader, he's not even going to pay
for fingerprint reader at all.
So, who gives a shit if it works?
But if an SD card reader doesn't work
and he needs an external SD card reader,
no, that's not buying a laptop that works with Linux.
I'm sorry.
But look, this comes down to that same situation of,
you know, you have mom and pop stores
that you can eat in your local town.
You can go in, you can have great service
and everything's going to be fine.
And then Walmart moves in to a small town
and just decimates the local community
and, you know, a big box store,
whatever, closes everything down.
And that's where we are now.
Do you buy from ASER, from HP, from ASUS,
or whatever?
Do you buy from Walmart,
or do you buy from mom and pop, like Entraware
and System76?
And the fact is that if you don't support those mom and pop stores
and pay over the odds,
maybe it's two or three times over the odds.
But if you don't support them, they will go away
and all you'll be left with is the Walmart,
the HP's, the Dell's,
and then there'll be no Linux support left.
So, you know, what do you do?
Do you vote with your wallet,
or do you vote with your heart and your conscience?
Yeah, you have a good point there,
but I think your friends, and here you are,
how much money you have to spend on this as well.
And I think the average person will just,
well, it's all there with what's cheaper, really.
And most people, let's do it.
Maybe, let's do it in the city of 50 more and 50 maybe,
because it sounds like he's quite offended about 20 projects this year
or something like that.
So, in that case, he can probably buy directly from systems
and de-sets, or something like that.
Joe, your point is 100% true and correct and just.
It breaks down as an analogy, though,
because your local mom and pop store
doesn't sell a quart of milk for five times
what Walmart sells it for.
And it breaks down as a metaphor because,
again, I'm spending someone else's money,
someone is entrusting me with the decision
where their money's on the line.
And if it doesn't work, not only are they out the money,
they're out of computer because his current computer
isn't working anymore.
And to be without a computer these days,
try it, just try it.
This is a guy who does not have a smartphone.
So, he doesn't even have a backup.
I live with a flip phone and no computer for a week
and tell me how happy you're going to be with me
for challenging you.
Actually, guys, I can probably afford the crowd fund
because the last two laptops that I've had have been
just donated to me are given.
You know, I'm working with us right now
to Shiba Satellite i3, which is fast,
well, it's faster than any computer I've ever had.
The keyboard is crap.
I have to tell you that.
But, you know, Pokey, for the first time
in several iterations, the internal SD card reader
actually works.
And we talk about five times as much money,
but we're really not talking about that.
We're talking about maybe one and a half
or maybe one and a quarter times as much money.
Absolutely not.
And I just gave the example that I can buy.
The laptop I'm using now, I bought two years ago or so,
I paid $200 for it.
And it's been a really good laptop.
It was phenomenally fast with Windows on it.
And finally, I convinced my wife to let me put Linux on it
because it's her laptop.
And it runs pretty damn slow with Linux Mint on it.
It locks up and freezes solid, pretty frequently.
The same laptop, or at least the same level of laptop,
I can get for $250 now.
Because I bought this one when it was on sale.
And if I go out and buy a laptop with Linux on it,
I cannot find one for less than $1200.
I know that's not exactly five X,
but roughly, that's what we're talking about.
Come on.
I really have a discrete graphics card
and some other features that $250 a laptop doesn't have.
No, I'm not talking about any of that.
I'm talking about a laptop
that I am guaranteed will work with Linux.
That's all I want.
You cannot get that guarantee for less than $1200.
What's your budget?
300 would be nice.
400 is pushing it.
500.
I'm going to get an angry look.
You're absolutely right.
I'm thinking when laptop for $550.
Yes, that's going to break the budget.
$550 is unacceptable to him.
300, unless I show him some features,
is probably top dollar, maybe 400.
Well, in the UK, we have some HP machines
from eBuyer.com running Ubuntu.
And I believe they're 250, 350.
Are those re-emergisher
or those coming that way, brand new?
I still believe that as well.
It looks quite good.
But the only thing here is you gain
an AMD process
in the Intel, in the pound, the AMD,
doesn't actually work as well as Intel.
So, yeah.
Game into that.
Also, I will say you're talking about British pounds
and you're still,
you have more buying power with those
than we do with American dollars at the moment.
We have for, what, 10, 15 years now.
I would really like to challenge the supposition
that there's Linux drivers out there
because of System76
and think Penguin.
I mean, those are great companies.
Don't get me wrong.
But, you know, the hardware manufacturers
are not saying,
oh, we've got these two companies building Linux computers.
We better make sure Linux drivers work.
It's because people in the Linux community
because the Linux, you know,
make the Linux drivers work
or, you know, the manufacturers say,
well, yeah, we don't want to be locked out of the whole,
you know, Linux,
Linux market with people
installing Linux on what used to be a Windows computer.
I think if, I'm sorry,
but I think if System76
and think Penguin disappeared tomorrow,
it would make zero impact
on whether manufacturer support Linux.
Yeah, absolutely.
Who said anything different?
I would disagree with that.
I would disagree with it based on this story
that I've got to tell you, okay?
You guys presumably are familiar
with the Librum 13 and 15.
And those machines were sold based on the fact
that they were going to run free software top to bottom.
Well, as we know,
the core boot and the Libra boot
has not panned out,
and so effectively,
they're just a machine that runs
everything above the BIOS free software,
which is fair enough, okay?
You know, I'm not going to complain,
even though they're about three times the price
of a similar machine
that we've talked about there.
But it happens that
those machines are essentially identical
to machines that enter where are selling in the UK.
Now, it's not that they are manufacturing
the same machines, two different companies.
They're not manufacturers.
These companies are resellers,
and they're resellers of cheap Chinese machines,
which are actually quite good in terms of quality,
and things that you can go,
anyone can go and buy off Alibaba
or whatever those eBay equivalents are in the far east.
And so Librum were trying to sell this machine
and have shipped some of them,
but enter where are selling them
and have shipped them
with sub-standard touchpad drivers.
And the touchpad works as what is recognised
as a PS2 mouse,
so it's only single-click.
There's no two-finger scrolls,
there's no gestures,
anything like that,
or they weren't until my friend Martin,
who is responsible for
well the main developer of Ubuntu Marta,
he, because Ubuntu Marta is available on those machines
from Android,
he took it upon himself
to write a driver for that touchpad.
And now,
in the latest versions of Ubuntu
and indeed probably arch and similar,
you can now use those machines
with fully free software
and have a completely functional touchpad,
and that has a knock-on effect
with the likes of Librum.
So that, to me, is an example of how
vendors of Linux laptops
working with community distros
like Ubuntu Marta
can actually push things forward
for free software.
Well hold on, no.
If your buddy was here right now
and we asked him,
would he say he's a vendor
or a community member?
He is not a vendor.
He is a, well,
how can you put it?
He is the main developer of Ubuntu Marta.
Then you're making 50s point for him.
This is, 50 was saying that the vendors
are not pushing out hardware drivers
because of system 76.
What he said was that the community
is taking care of this stuff
because they're scratching their own itch.
And I think you're making this point for him.
Well that may be,
but he's not,
what free software about is community.
But that's not,
nobody's disputing that fact.
Your whole point was,
these two very similar laptops
and the one,
the vendor clearly didn't give a rat
how well it worked in Linux
because they were shipping it
without not working well in Linux.
And your friend took it upon himself
to fix it,
so Marta at least would run well on it.
So how's that different
from Dell shipping a computer,
HP shipping a computer.
And I install Ubuntu on it
and you know,
find out there are several things broken
and somebody from Ubuntu
or you know,
down stream at Mint or whatever
looks at that and says,
well we can't let that stand
and fixes it.
So yeah, I've got a groove,
Pokey,
it's, you know,
I think we're coming around
about to the same point
from different directions.
Of course you have to agree with me.
I was agreeing with you.
Um, Dell,
I know you're,
Dell's not exactly
the small mom-and-pop you want.
In fact,
it's kind of the Walmart.
But I know one of the guys
that works on Linux support
on Dell laptops
and he says that they put quite a lot
of effort into making sure
that Linux actually does work well
on Dell laptops.
That, when we looked
for laptops last,
then we did not buy one
maybe a month or two ago.
Um,
the only two acceptable laptops
that we found.
One was a Dell
and one was a Toshiba satellite
and the satellite had some features
he didn't need,
some hardware features he didn't need
and push the price up
beyond what he needed to spend.
But I,
that's understandable.
But there still was only one
that I would say was,
was, uh,
that I was willing
to spend his money on
to say that it was compatible
with Linuxness
because it was entirely
Intel-based.
So, you know,
I mean,
I don't know if anybody has ever said it,
but hats off to Intel
for keeping all of their hardware
Linux compliant
and Linux compatible
and for free and their drivers.
I mean, they seem to be the only
chip level manufacturer
whose driver's
remain compatible with Linux
this entire time.
Well, I think, I think, I think,
to...
You know, I think about the Elliott
you said,
apparently End is
not as good as Intel
and you said
something in front of that.
Um, but I,
I,
I was gonna say,
what do you think, Matt,
but, um,
I was going to come up
about the Intel being better
so Intel Graphics
we open source
So they're from there. It's quite well. In the video, they've got proprietary drivers for them or fancy stuff
AMD I think is open solves, but
Not quite because Intel is it for that here even
AMD is not open source
And but as far as Intel
Intel pushes so hard to get Linux support for their tips
That they've actually had an instance where they actually
Send a bunch of patches to the upstream kernel
You know send a bunch of drivers got them into a kernel and then
Releases or so later realized that they weren't gonna ship that particular chip said and actually had to remove them from the upstream kernel
Can't survive. I've missed you
And and this one when it comes to Intel
Okay, it's all well and good once you've booted and you get into a desktop or indeed
Server and everything's running fine. You can praise Intel. I'd love how they've opened source to all the code to make it run
but what about the bootloader
and well and and below that what about the fact that the BIOS and the EFI these days is totally locked down
And it's it's proprietary and therefore you could argue that even if you run in all the free software in the world
Even if you're running Trisco on top of it
If you've got a proprietary blob running your kernel
That sorry running your CPU and running the
You know the BIOS that boots that then you may as well be running Windows or OS 10 on top of that
So funny thing you lost me at that point you're you're right about the bootloader
But having an operating system that is free is is far better than having one that is not free
And if the only way to get there is with a non-free bootloader
Then we're stock with getting there with a non-free bootloader. It's it's it's not
To say I do not agree with you if your point is hey the bootloader is not free
So you might as well run you know dual boot windows and and OS 10
I'm not with you on that point. So funny yeah and even it
Even at that point, you know, okay, let's let's have a completely open source bootloader
But what about the firmware on the computer itself
That's not open. It's you know
Hopefully one day it may be but it you know that's that's a long way away
So if you keep saying
You know at every point there you know there's a I can't have a binary blob on my computer
I can't look at you know you're gonna be running an extra sketch
Well, it's yeah exactly
Supposing you're running
So supposing you're running Trisco right and everything's totally free software and everything is a free software
Utopia the fact is that when you send instructions to your processor your intel processor
You're not directly communicating with a hardware that processor has firmware which is proprietary
And you are sending instructions to it. It interprets those instructions
Via its proprietary firmware does what it has to do and then spits out what it has to do and but the fact remains
That you are dealing with a proprietary
firmware and so even if you're running the freest of free software operating systems
You basically may as well not bother because the processor that's doing all of the work for you
Is running proprietary binary blobs?
Why do you?
I disagree with you and I mean I see a point but
To be honest, but
I mean let's be honest here. There's people who run them at this work with distribution
The master any any distribution do not
go and
Trying to use the bios and power more the free software foundation and food
Open free software biases
Because
They're worried they can be like the wrong when it's just you know, it's a hassle really. I mean, I never that myself
So I'm just assuming here, but
But yeah, I don't know people will not bother
So but I will poke you point that even if your bios
In this you've got a new phone this you know proprietary stuff
It's still better off in this and so don't suffer from
So at least have an operating system that is free
Software even if ask of them right where to put proprietary bios so it can just they can even beat up. That's I agree
Poke you on that one
Can I toss this in there? Yeah, so arm the arm world is interesting
On the one hand a lot of arm chip vendors are really crap-tacular
About working with the upstream Linux community. That's why you have every pretty much every phone out there has an out-of-tree kernel
I but on the other hand
There are some instances where you can boot an arm chip with a fully as
Bright binary blobs whatsoever and there are some devices like for instance the first arm
Samsung arm chromebook the exynos 52 40 version you can actually replace the system firmware
With a fully free firmware
So to the point where the literally the only
The only binary if he will running on it is the actual
The actual micro code that came on the socket self and at that point
If you're gonna be running anything besides one of these to leave free and open
CPUs which by the way are not actually available unless you program an FPGA
Then that's about as free as you're gonna get what is that machine and and what operating systems is the capable of running?
It's cable. It's a the original Samsung arm chromebook and it's capable of running fedora
And it's not only is it capable of running fedora it it'll run fedora with a full gooey and it'll run a virtual machine with full hardware acceleration
Is it still available or is it only on the used market now um you might still be able to find it
um as a new computer now i will say this there it's a turnton
new it was 250 bucks um it had two gigs of ram and
Two core arm CPU the
Problem with it is that it only had a 16 gig internal storage because it was a chromebook. They
So that's the one problem i ever had with mine. Yeah, that's something to work either
hope you uh they don't you can't buy those anymore
i bought one when they first came out that was the number one selling chromebook on amazon at the time
You can look they sell up used um you can use the cruton if you don't want to go to the route that
Everybody else was talking about that's what i have on mine i use cruton with xfc
What is cruton is that an ls?
It's basic cruton is you're you're you're using the cromo s kernel and bootloader and all that
But you're essentially running another linux distro within a shrewt environment
That sounds pretty cool. I don't know if i'm ready to hand that off to
someone else that sounds like fun for me to try i mean that's
uh
When i wanted to mention that i don't want to change the subject but you know
Half an hour ago or more when we were talking about
Year of the linux desktop and uh joe uh i think made the point that
Well last two years the best selling laptops have been cromo s
Yeah fine try get on mumble with cromo s without using cruton
Yeah, or without uh running proper linux on it you know with cbios
But i'm very glad that arm has been brought up here because that was the point that i was trying to drive this towards
Because we are
You know we we have this mindset that laptops are x86 bmd or intel
But the fact is if we want a truly top to bottom free software be it core boot well libraboot
Uh, you know rather than bios or efi the the only hope for us is
A an arm based or perhaps a mips based or similar based laptop and so
You know to think that we're stuck in this x86 world. I mean x86 laptop sales are declining well
I mean they've taken a bit of a bit of a rise this year
But you know that that old world of x86 decks desktops and laptops that's that is over now as far as i'm concerned
And we are marching towards an arm and perhaps mips based future and that is where
The best hope for a free software of you know genuinely open hardware free software machine lies as far as i'm concerned
And joe you're in the future, but it sure as hell isn't the present
joe you're talking about
Avoiding binary blobs and perhaps i'm more ignorant, but you're you're on your phone right now aren't you?
You were earlier and you know you've got dalvik in between
The linux kernel and you're you know and your user interface and and your
software and
Sure, and you know definitely not everything in the
in the
Play store is
Open source though if you get everything from afdroid. I guess you're covered
But even with all that you're talking about a device that essentially has
Uh two processors and and god knows what that you know what the phone side of it is doing to your privacy
Yeah
Okay, yes, I'm on my phone right now and yes, it's bringing so much
Partry software that amazement will be using OS 10 or windows
Who's down beautiful joe well exactly that's probably software because as rms himself says
That proposes software is often better than free software in terms of
Pragmatism, but it's not about pragmatism. It's about ideology
But let's get let's stay on that ideology, okay now what i'm talking about is
An arm-based laptop now the thing with the phone is that it necessarily needs proposes software to run because of the radio
Because it is illegal in almost every country to connect to gsm or similar network
With arms or software because that has to be locked down
But if all you need to oh if all you need to connect to a network is an ethernet or a Wi-Fi connection
Then that can be a hundred percent free software
And so the the phone example to me the phones are a stop cap to me personally
In you know, they are pushing the arm development forward until we get decent 64-bit
Octa-core processes that support eight and sixteen gigs of RAM
So I can have a decent laptop workstation that is running an ARM CPU that is totally free software tops upon
Actually 64-bit ARM CPUs that you just described exist
They're just no one putting them into laptops
Well, yes, I know they exist in certain phones, but they are going to exist in laptops
If it's not 2016, hopefully it'll be 2017
Joe your your point and your
Your idealism and your ideals are
admirable and and I'm with you a hundred percent in that regard. I just for the record
Um actually by the way you can also get servers with 64-bit ARM CPUs
Um, um, yeah, um, in phones, um, in this but um, um, um,
Computers or most inside of x86. I think I agree with the
person who makes and sell earlier
But that's going to be a long way away
And I haven't even did even did a lot of well um
That really that many distributions
This in that sense is a kind of like this
Um, I don't know that anyone is left still hoping that 2016 will be the year of the Linux server
No, that's what you think isn't it
And that kind of already happened
Yeah, but you mentioned that uh as far as ARM distributions fedora
For fedora arm is actually a primary architecture
Which means that if a one of the qa
really if a if a release criteria
Is not met on arm then fedora does not ship same as if a release criteria on x86 is not met
fedora does not ship
That is not true if that only affects x86 64 x86 32 if it is uh
They will ignore that as long as it works on 64-bit x86 they will
Push the release out and I hadn't heard that about the ARM but that makes total sense to me because
32 bit x86 is just totally obsolete now as far as the fedora
Developers concerned and ARM probably v7 and above that it is equal to x86 64
Um actually 32-bit x86 is still a primary architecture
There's talks to the phasing it out, but it has not happened yet
Game with fedora that was saying
Indeed, it's not happened quite yet, but it had it's still around. It's still a primary architecture
Yeah, yeah, okay, so from the years well
Where two points I've got to make here one
An ARM version has been worked on here and there for three years now
But it's coming in the background. I think they're going to
Um panoraph it in it again to
To I've seen the debate
kind of on about maybe this a few times now about having um getting rid of x86
32 bits of thought possibly in the next maybe in the next
Three years even
But I personally think about um 32 bit
Should should stay in in distributions for probably in the
10 years at least, but if more than that because actually there's a lot more
There'll be a lot more 30-bit computers out there
There's still being used that could still be working as a 10 years time as well
so
Five years or something
So the hell I do a bit
Everything you just give to x86 as long as that's up. She got one from 2005
That's you know, that's 30-bit still reps quite well
Well, and I also know I also know a lot of people out there who don't think 64-bit in Linux is quite ready for prime time
And even though they have 64-bit computers they always install the
32-bit with the memory extensions
That's a
My self-styled bloodite and yet I still
You know sometimes I'll run 32-bit sometimes I'll run 64-bit
But what I want to run and what I want to be the reality has not bearing on what is the actual reality
And that is the fact that 32-bit is effectively dead and very few developers want to support it because they have
The latest i5s and i7s and whatever and don't care about 32-bit
I mean what we're talking about we're talking about a few net books and a few ancient 10-year-old laptops that they haven't cared about for years
That's exactly my point about running Linux as an operating system versus looking for a top to bottom free operating system
From hardware level up to the very highest levels you that's exactly what I was saying before
You got to draw the line somewhere between what you want which is your
Your idealism and what you can have which is the practicality and they're straight-offs for either one
And I think that that line is
Between x86 and arm because what I want is a purely free software
Top to bottom x86 machine that I can do all the powerful stuff that I can do with an x86 machine
However the reality is that going forward into 2016
1718
dare I say it 20 and beyond
What is the reality is that I'm going to have to use an arm-based machine and I'm hoping that arm
Will progress to a point where it is as powerful as my x86 machine now and it's it's lagging behind now
But who knows but my only hope for a truly free software top to bottom machine
Is arm. I mean our or perhaps MIPS or one of those other
architectures that isn't it's x86
But what I'm trying to the point that I'm trying to get across here is that x86 is dead to us as as truly free software
Advocates we may as well just forget about it because it's not going to happen because of BIOS and EFI
If we want free software
We need to forget about Intel and x86
I
But I see a point but thing is all that it you know reality
Most computers are of course next to effects. So we can't just
So let's just I've got it
Let me jump in there and you said that to me that most computers are x86
What is it wrong to me to me a computer is something that has
Like a CPU a GPU perhaps ram and runs an operating system
If you'd look around at the world today
How many computers under this definition are effectively Android or iOS phones and how many of them are
x86 desktops or laptops
It might be 50 50 it might be one way or another but to say that most are either is
So most standard computers are the best up a laptop
But what is the standard the standard constantly shifts and and the standard in the 90s and the naughties
Was an x86 machine as we know running probably windows out of the box or perhaps OS 10
But the standard as we are looking at it now in 2016 is is an arm-based mobile device
That is the standard computer that we're looking at
Well
By the way, you're if you're on an x86 laptop
chances are you have one x86 CPU and three or four RM CPUs on another note
Going back to the arm servers. I can do kick off a kernel build on an x86 64-bit box and a kernel build on a
64-bit arm box that is similarly specs based
So Xeon versus Xeon server processor versus an arm server processor
About same clock speed same number of cores etc etc and
Both kernel builds finish at approximately the same time
So you're the same to me that x86 and arm are more or less equal at this point
No, when it comes to when it comes to server-grade CPUs. Yes, all right hold on
First of all your server-grade CPUs you're talking about
Many many many times more cores with the arm than you're talking about with x86
So you're talking apples and oranges, but I'm saying same number of cores
But back to back to something you said earlier Joe and and I'm not arguing with you because I don't like your point
I really do like your point and I really do like where you're coming from
But to say that you're giving up on x86 or x86 64
Because the bios isn't there. That's not the fault of x86
That's not the fault of the processor at the heart of the computer
That's the fault of the industry and us the fault of the manufacturers
So if the entire world abandoned x86 and x86 64 or
Any future iterations at this point if they all jump ship and went over to arm or MIPS or any other thing at this point
They're still going to be dealing with hardware manufacturers and chip level manufacturers
That make machines that need a bios that need some sort of of system to
To interface between the hardware and the operating system and that's going to be a
A bios and a bootloader and they're going to be the same proprietary bios and bootloader has nothing to do with the processor
And has nothing to do with the kernel
So while I admire your your
Your morality here and I admire your principles here
Again, practicality is not
Intermesting cleanly with with the gears you're trying to spin
Let me counter that let me counter that with this, okay?
please
Intel and AMD are in the business of designing
architectures and then manufacturing them and necessarily they have to be they have to be of a proprietary mindset about that
The difference with arm is that they license the the design and the intersection property of how to make that
um that processor and so the software that they can then run on it they don't really care about
Because as far as they're concerned they've licensed only the manufacture out
Uh, you know, you know, they they they've
licensed only the design out and they're not worried about the manufacture of it. Yeah, I get either way
I get that but you're saying to carry on to your ultimate point
You're saying that in the middle here the free market is going to insist on free software at the bootloader level
And I just don't think that that has ever proved out we've not seen that yeah
I don't think our arm becomes when arm takes over the position of of Intel
Let's say that happens. Do you think the government and the manufacturers are going to want to give up the power of being able to lock us out of our own machines
Okay, right. I'm not saying that for a minute. I'm saying Samsung
Apple Google the big companies are going to want to have binary blobs all over the arm
Processors that they are implementing what I'm saying is the difference is that at least from a minority a small company
If you're a small company now like um, uh, the leverum guys
Uh, who who go to Intel and say we want to have
Uh, a process that can run free software top to bottom and tell say no way
go away
Whereas if you're a small company and you go to arm or a manufacturer who deals with arm then
Although it's not going to be in the likes of Samsung and apple and as I said you can actually get a process that that will run free software
And that to me is is it a crack in the armor? No, no, no
That's precisely because arm is not the industry leader if arm
Was the industry leader as soon as they become the industry leader they only care about the big
purchasers of their technology. It's it's not because they're
Morally or or or in any other way committed to free software
It's because they're they're forced at this point to deal with smaller markets than Intel and AMD
Uh, have already business deals with so a couple of things here
Um, first arguably arm is the industry leader there's
Exactly, exactly, exactly, there's far more arm CPUs than there are Intel CPUs, but
Even then on top of that though, I will state that arm
Does it necessarily go with best engineering practices and and uh go goes with free software
By choice
Initially a lot of the reason why on her free software is a thing on arm now is because John masters at redhead
Brawl beat them into submission in that regards
Hey, Tash have a new year man speak up. Hey, what's up guys? That's exactly what I was going to say about
The fact is that you can you talk about this hypothetical future where arm
Might be the leader and might have overtaken x86 and then they're not going to
Uh be open to smaller manufacturers wanting to have
arm
Processors that can have you know can run free software, but we are in that world right now arm has taken over x86
Intel is on the back for AMD is dead in the water hold on we are not in a world where x86 is king anymore
We have an arm world
When you say that arm has taken over an arm is in the lead and arm
Okay, sure they have more processors out there um I got a go pro for Christmas
It shoots in like 1.4k. Is there an arm processor out there that I can install a free operating system on and edit that video
In in any reasonable amount. I mean can I do it at all first?
Yes, you can and secondly, can I do it in a reasonable amount of time and thirdly?
Can I do it without a friggin cluster farm? Yes, they're all three actually go ahead. I want to do this
So if you want to do it on a laptop
um
Most arm chrome books even I mean not even include even the newest generation of arm chrome books
You can drop free software on them completely, you know have the whole stack be free on top of that
If you want to use a desktop type machine you can get go to applied micro they will actually sell you
um a motherboard and CPU, you know like you would stick in a regular desktop for
You know a couple hundred bucks find you it like say it's a server-grade CPU
But you're it's only you're only talking about eight cores. You're talking higher in desktop
If you will you stick a nice graphics card in there
You know it's taking in a regular ATX case
I mean in video with proprietary drivers
Uh whatever just what I was thinking that
Oh, I mean it had no no not whatever. I mean is there a free
Is there is there a video card with free drivers that I can put in there actually believe it or not
There are some Nvidia graphics cards that work very well with the with no vote
So can they purchase new or do I have to go hunt? Yes, you can purchase the new one a low mileage one
You can purchase them go to new aid right now and purchase them
Not to take this on too much of a tangent
Had some pirate but if you know if I if I can
Buy an eight core arm and put as you say a nice
Nvidia graphics card in there. Let's say I'm not worried at all about binary blobs
Can I install and run steam games
No, because they're probably built for intel or at least actually yeah, let's let's not be ridiculous
And so I'll talk about children's pursuits like games. We're talking about serious uh grown up business here
Oh, I think games is a much much bigger business than video editing
It's too much old face on as soon as she said steam. I was like any conversation of free software
Just went right out the window
Yeah, absolutely, but they are a big
Driving force in having drivers for linux in in which case we're talking about free drivers again
Tell us why games
drivers for X8
X8 six computers which we were talking about early and um
Yeah, that's what steam us will help play the things like that
But I wanted to say a little bit. I'll do it now instead um
Joe Bessie said oh um, but all the
computers are a lot of computers are phones now and tablet especially we say earlier
And that is true as well
However
And yes, a lot of people just used their phone on tablet now, but even so
Quite a few of these people sort of have a laptop or a desktop
Use a little often here, but they move for their
Put workers I'll see what they think they can't do on the phone. So
So even so even
A lot of people with armed devices still have X8 six. That's my point. Yeah as well
Yes, but you know, I'm supposed to be the lot out here, but I'm
Telling you that okay those machines are around they're still being sold to a certain extent
But they're massively being outsold by phones and tablets and most people's primary computing to us
Is a phone and if it's not a phone it's a tablet and it may
Possibly their second or or even third device is an X86 machine
You know, we are in a we're living in the future and the future is armed and you know, I would love
The present to be X86 because that's what I grew up using and that's what I know most about and I know very little about arm from it
A technical point of view, but I'm being forced by reality to drag myself into this feature of using armed devices because that's where we are
I got to take a point away from you there and you keep claiming you're a Luddite and there's absolutely no way
You cannot be a Luddite and run Linux these days. It's it's not possible anymore
I'm sorry. Just can't do it. You have to be so much more of an advanced user and not
This is entirely not Linux's fault. It's the hardware manufacturer's fault trying to get hardware that will run
Linux at a decent speed and do modern tasks like surfing the web for instance
um, I mean you just can't do that as a Luddite as a person hanging on to old technology
I'm gonna have a 10 or 12 year old laptop and it's just unusable at this point. I'm sorry
And Joe has a you know, I think has a point at some at some point the only market for x86 probably will be
high performance gaming machines and then they'll become prohibitively expensive
And we will go to multi-core arms and then all the all the games on steam will will be ported armed
And in a lot of ways they have been um
I got a uh
An email from
Amazon recently
saying that they uh, they gave me a $25 credit to their app store and it could only be used to the app store and I could only use it in the month of December
So I had a look to see just what was available and a lot of what's there
um
For popular paid software is in fact
um
You know playstation video games and Xbox video games and
Windows based video games ported over to android so I have to agree with you in that point
They're going to port the software over if if there's money involved and with my
I got many tied in i'm sorry to read with the remix mini tied into the 50 inch tv, you know
All maybe some android games look a little jaggy, but they they really
Look, you know last gaming computer I had was a was uh
Was a pinium for so they all look better than anything that was ever on my pinium for on a screen that size
You know native native android games, you know
So if they if I can give them to work with the controller and the remix mini
You know, it's very it's very much like I would say console experience
Reggie do with it. I I look I did just like you I looked at it and I
It said spend by the end of 2015. I didn't go back. I don't you know
This is all fine and good
Are might be taking over the world your mom your dad your sister and your brother
Yeah, they're using their putting their using their phone to do everything in the world that you could compute on
But I guarantee that about everybody in this room tonight has a laptop or a full blown desktop that they
Take audacity and they're gonna make a nice sounding audio out of there using gimp for something
They're doing a great, you know video something and
But they're not you're not you're not using a tablet or a phone to do that you
You can that's the thing just because you can doesn't mean you should
I don't want to do that stuff on a six inch phone or a seven inch tablet, you know
I want my I want my laptop that I'm sitting up here looking at a 22 inch screen
That's what I want to do this on. Yes, if I can do that and make a big computer
That's fine and dandy, but we can call all these little things. I'm holding in my hand
Yes, it's the greatest computer in the world. It's better than my
six eight oh nine. I had from
Radio shagged is
Yeah, but you know we we're talking semantics here. Yeah arm takes over the world
Android is Linux Linux over the world, but be practical guys
You've got to look at all the people around the world. They don't even know what Linux is they see a telephone
And if it does what they want to do they do it
So I got an interesting turn here um happy new year to
Parts of the US in Canada
Mexico
Mexico City Chicago
And all the way down to Guatemala
Cairo, Kansas. Happy new year. K-row
That's K-row
Can I just interact here guys and say do it?
I'm in London. It's 6am. I really need to go to bed
But this has been one of the most fascinating
conversations that I've had for several months and
This probably isn't the place to do it. I know this is going to be broadcast one day
But you guys
I've had a great time talking to you. I would love to talk to this kind of thing again and
So if you would like to talk to me again in a similar situation
Please get in touch with me because I do various podcasts and I would love to do something like this
Something like Chris is doing over on the west coast of the US with their Linux unplugged
But you guys you know seem to be um
You know of a similar caliber of that mumble room there. So um
Yeah, it get in contact with me
Joe wrestlington is my name on Twitter and stuff Joe rest and indeed anyone else who's interested
I would love to have this freeform chat with anyone who's interested
Um, this feels really inappropriate to try and plug this but it's not for any commercial
It's it's literally just because I'm interested in having this conversation. So um
Yeah, I don't know Joe at joarest.com. It's my email
Um or joarestington at gmail.com or whatever
But I would love to have more conversations like this in 2016. I just followed you sir
It's not inappropriate at all Joe and and for myself. I apologize for arguing with you. I just like to argue
um
Mostly in your case not in not in most people's case
But in your case because I kept hoping you'd change my mind
Can I do virtual machines because I mean yeah, if you can do email you can do web
And do basic things like that found in the film the tablet that's fine
But if you're going to do specific things
But you're so reggae was trying to say I think a bit as well
But that's for sure. You don't have to go examine virtualization
Can you do you come in virtual boxing or tablet come on kind of a PC?
So you can do virtual machines and then tablet you can't do it, can you?
I clean you can
I was going to say kind of anything I read
I've run virtual machines on an arm box and before you go, Joe
You you are more than welcome anytime
Of course if you contribute to
hackerpublicradio.org and everything you need to know is right there on the website also
I'm involved in
Linux lugcast which broadcasts
Uh the first and third Fridays of of every month at
9 p.m. Eastern standard time which you know probably might be inconvenient for you
But again all in we're we're essentially an online lug and everybody is invited to join. So
You know and all the information is right there at linux lugcast.com
Well, who is he sat on?
That definitely that definitely sounds interesting to me
um
And I really want to was that
Did you say Fridays?
Yeah Fridays uh 9 Eastern standard time
First and third every month. Okay guys. We've been talking about this for hour plus
Okay, I
Also want to say one sort of long subject handsome pirate and pokey you guys are both
In encouraged to uh come back to
Colonel panic augcast anytime you can make it. I will
Probably take you up on that and mom make the hell out of you
Any of those isn't it's been really great and I would love to talk to you all night
I know I could easily do that. I could drink a lot more and talk to you guys about all sorts of
Aspects of software freedom and hardware and all that stuff
But I really must go to bed. So it's been real and I probably speak to you again next year
Well, happy new year sir
Happy new year. You've been
And uh
Yeah, yeah, so he's done this in like this page
Podcast even better than I thought it was last time the
happy yeah
See you guys, huh? It also in the in the room. I there's a lot of handles. I recognize and I don't think we've let them have a word in it
edge wise or seps in and
Uh
Shizzatome and underrunner and you're a gamy. I don't think we've let them talk all day
Set
Pirate you doing anything good for near bar. It's a martillary nice
I let the turn on the mic for it to scared the I think I scared some folks
All right on artillery you got I was artillery officer. Oh just uh cannon
So a whole lot of stuff
All right, muzzle water. I think that's uh the address a
So maybe we can chat fast for you. I'm trusting me
We've got people shooting off fireworks in our apartment complex
We also have some spiced rum orange correct cow ginger ale and gummy bears on ice
gummy bears on ice
That's the best part. I can't take gummy bears. Would these be gummy bears with alcohol in the center now? I'm gonna have to
We have the technology
Injection. Well was it that emergency was running around with it. Oh, it left. He had like caffeinated
Gummy bears. They made himself or something. It was crazy
That's not dangerous. I've got caffeinated e-sig juice next best thing. What's sig juice?
electronic cigarette. Oh
John we transferred over our photos today from the past like half year and we um that one train we went and saw
Yeah, I still need to upload that probably gonna do it like tomorrow
Go for
You were asking about that original samsung chromebook. I just checked Amazon. They have a certified refurbished one from
149 dollars, but they also have new models and they cost more than the new chromebooks
So I don't think you'll get a new samsung 303c chromebook at a cheap price unless you get a refurbished store
Yeah, I'm not so sure he's
Gonna go for it again. He has no interest in a chrome book
Running a chrome OS. He wants a laptop that runs linux. You know, he's he's really used to linux mint and
And that's something I find not too difficult to support, you know, it's linux mint
So whatever I get for him is something I'm gonna have to support because I've I'm the one that's convinced him to
To go with linux and he's been real real happy with it so far. It's just as hardware is failing
I think you're just I made a concerted effort in
2012 when microsoft was putting a strong arm on
Manufactured when windows eight was coming out to find a laptop that
Still didn't have the uf i on and if it did you could turn it off and I get I ended up with the p580
Lenovo with the core i'd five six gigabytes of RAM and
It runs linux mint monta perfect. I never had any problems with it. That's what I'm using now
I'm nursing it because I know I don't want to go through what you're going through
I don't want to replace this thing. It just works with my tail on it
I've had them boot too on it. I've had open suits on it. It just works
So I don't want to go through what you're planning on trying to do
So it tosses out there required you don't turn off uf i what you do is you just go into bias
compatibility mode
But it's still uf i under the hood
It's the only thing you can turn off is secure boot
And actually microsoft just made ironically made it a requirement that you can do so on at least x86
Yeah, I understand what you're talking about all this is what we've been talking about the last hour
A lot of is semantic. We know what we're talking about when i said turn off uf i you knew i meant secure boot
sure
now and the other problem is you know since the
Was it was it called i forget the exact name i think it was super fish since that
I don't want to buy another Lenovo
That's what he's got now that i bought from last time. It's who his wife has is a Lenovo
I can't go buy another Lenovo now
How can i do that?
I think i was the same way i'm glad i'm about like you i can't go back and get a Lenovo
I'm glad i got it in 2012
Well, the other thing with super fish is it only affects windows it's a
And specifically it only in and affects their installed windows
So if you go and drop linux on it then you've erased the problem that being said you still have you since you should still not buy a Lenovo because of the ethical
Issues of them causing this issue in the first place
Um with Lenovo it's even beyond ethical
they were either
I sorry six beers in my pocket it yeah, it was either incompetence or negligence or they were
cooperating in putting that on there's one of the three
I was looking for in laptop and it calls to yoga free comes up in our land
keep some of them like oh no it was good then when you eat
That should mean they shut down
Where's the malware and uh prensle and like computers that kind of made me think
Well, that's not very good
And okay, we're going to run like somebody ran and so on but
I would bet that she would have kept windows prensles so it's like i saw windows in this
laptop as well hp
but um
You know
There's a check stuff like that. I don't think like that
You can't we can't shut none of that out as simple as that
If you live a few days you're gonna have problems when it's found out
Simple as that
So earlier this year you mean an hour and 15 minutes ago
But a little more seriously though um
Dell also did something similar here even more recently here about what two months ago
So it's not exactly an isolated problem
No, but yeah, I mean if there's some tension
I mean they should have better checking really make sure that things preinstalled
These thoughtways is kind of relevant the whole point is that they shouldn't have them in the first place
Whoever's failures
And you just have no checking doesn't that preinstalled
Well, I mean this is companies
This just shows or
Demonstrates that the FSF has been right on long. Oh, we knew that 10 years ago
Yep, we just we just have to do our due diligence, you know
I don't think you can really trust any company. You just have to research do everything you can
Hopefully nothing will come up and that's just about it
If you get something you just have to try it out and see
Yeah, you can't trust where they can be trust
These companies completely that's true. You can you can definitely trust um open source or fees off right and
Better though because of course carries open like that
But I mean, yeah, it means to win days and still could actually happen kind of now
And if it's intentional or not that's that's that's the point I just made as well
Yeah, did anybody have any thoughts with IBM sold the think pad line and the Lenovo
To Lenovo Chinese company there have been their back of their mind that the Chinese government might control Lenovo
Yeah, well, I think
I think it's documentary actually on TV or the other month about how apparently
They are
up to
Like capitalism we continue with more knowing various companies there however
The Chinese government want to apparently kind of control that especially the guy mainly in charge of it's a panic control
The companies and how the business there and sort of like can you really do that if you let so much of these companies in there
But that's always special isn't it like
I don't know is this on me in the background controlling them or not
My beef with Lenovo is
When I well IBM hear more recently sold their server line to them and I had a friend that was working for IBM on their server firmware
and when the server line was sold to Lenovo then
She went to them obviously
Well, here that I guess it was February of this past year now
Lenovo laid off just about all of their
American software engineers that they had working on the x86 servers and
She was one of them. So that's kind of, you know, got me pissed off at Lenovo and they and everyone saw it coming
But it still wasn't cool
And by the way, she's still looking for a job. So if you know any openings for firmware engineers
My friend Lily and Raleigh needs a gig
So willing to work for the federal government
Possibly I could give her an ask can I sidetrack for just a moment here, please?
Uh, well that's been happening all day. I know. I know
50 mentioned that I did that I was part of the first
HPR New Year's Eve show and it was actually part of the first few
um
But I think probably this year we're at the point where I was not part of as many as I was part of and I just want to thank
everyone at HPR
Everyone who participates the whole community
Um for carrying on. I mean, I thought it was
When I when I did it the first time was kind of an idea that it was something
I felt that had to happen just to draw attention HPR to revive the community
It wasn't even like an idea of hey, this this is be great. It'll be a first
It was just it was something that I thought needed to happen and someone need to do it
So I did but it it seems to have worked the community jumped in and has been doing the same
Year after year and it's it's excellent. I want to just thank everybody
Who's who's put in the work and who's doing all this?
I can't stay up all night anymore
I'm not that kind of point in my life where I can you know to do a 24-hour show and not miss a minute of it
But we certainly have you know 24 hours of uh of community member coverage and that's um
I don't think there's any other
Online community in the world that I'm aware of that can say that so this it's it's awesome
Well can't already knows I'm not staying up till 8 a.m. So
Some point I'm going to leave the thing recording and if somebody wants to drop in they can't but uh
I have a feeling most of stuff's going to subside before then I don't know in past years. It's gone on and on
Yeah, everybody always says that
I don't think we'll get on and on this time
I hope yeah, I'd like to say I was one of those lurkers for the first couple of years
And I remember you listening
I've heard the voice over and over for the past few years. I just want to say thanks you and 5150
Same with him. How can you move? Oh you guys this first time. Well, thanks. We appreciate yeah, man
I mean just having someone listening just knowing someone was listening
um and and knowing that someone was going to participate
It was more that someone was going to participate I'll be honest and here you are participating. So
You literally are the reason that I ever did any of it
Well, I blame brome for being here. He's the only he's the one that originally got me onto august planet and
Subsequently doing the hpr new year show. So yeah brome is
Is an awesome awesome individual absolutely. I have to concur. He's one of my favorite people in our podcast and community
Not to slide anybody else, but just just
say he's always
entertaining to talk to and unfortunately the only time we can see him to get to do it anymore is
uh on the on the new year show because you guys never show up for dev random anymore
Sorry, is this it's bad enough? I got to drag people in the kpo. I mean, I can't even imagine getting getting people to dev random now
Is there a dev random again?
There there would be if ever people show
And as me know, it's gonna happen. I I'm the point where I don't bother to check anymore
So if anybody wants to do a dev random, I know a lot of people who want to hear a dev random
What's the next dev random supposed to happen? Well since we did kpo
Kpo was last Saturday technically the next dev random would be this next Saturday evening
Which is today? No days Friday. Oh, that's right. Damn it
Hey guys, anyway, um, I gotta go. I've been running around all day today
And I get to run around all day again tomorrow
And I'm feeding fast here, but happy New Year's everyone
Happy New Year. Yep. Thanks for coming out. It's not I've been on since nine o'clock at nine o'clock
There was nothing but static. I'm gonna hang in there without a listen
If you guys run short on topics
Taj is here to discuss the hack or probably radio audio book club books books books books
Oh
Thanks
Good night. Taj you've been in and out all day
Yeah, I looked out this year. I stayed home all day, which partially due to sickness and stuff, but
It's fun. I got to kind of monitor all day. It was nice
As well and less
I will get a bit of it anyway
so um
What can we talk about for hours there?
I'd like to hear more about this here book or audio book
Well, we always meet on this server on patch Tuesday
Uh, the rule is the book has to be
uh available for gratis as an audiobook so
Most of the time that's meant creative commons from
From potty of books.com, but sometimes it's been stuff in public domain and
sometimes it's been stuff that's just to
Free for download
Uh, you know, even if it is encumbered
So we all listen we decide on every every month we decide on next month's books and
months and months later we actually get them posted to the server
And that you know, that's uh, that's kind of our deal. We always we always we always do the first half
Uh, you know, if not spoilers not doing spoilers for the book
I don't want to ruin it for anybody that hasn't read the book and then second half
Well, we we take a time out and we all enjoy beverage
Of you know, whatever whatever type we like it not necessarily has to be an adult beverage
In my case, it always it always is and always shall be
Uh, but then we get on with what might be considered spoilers
Uh, in the book and basically talk about what we liked about the book
Uh, what we thought could be better how you know, the uh, the audio presentation things like that
Oh
Okay, and you know, just like anything else on the hacker public radio, anybody's anybody's certainly welcome to join in the uh,
the current
book we're reading is the uh, uh, what broke it's not the broken failed city, the failed
Yes, yep, failed city and that's available for free on audio on potty of books not audio books potty of books with a p
Have you guys seen the new Star Wars?
Yeah, we've we've discussed it generally, but we've tried not to do spoilers today yet because
I haven't seen it and there's probably going to be people
Listening on the stream. We haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it, but I put it on
John, go see it my Google play movies
If you said to me, I think you've got some audio bleed over going on. I feel like I didn't bring enough glow sticks for this conversation
And it's insane, it's insane
I'll go get my flute whoa whoa simmer down now
I've seen the new Star Wars
5115 the email spelling the potty of the IO
Yes, just like that I keep coming up with a freemium cloud-based collaboration service that was founded in
2000 acquired by 2000 but a project it's not project management
No Lincoln bound. So there's this new text editor called
Adam ATLM. I typed it into the mumble chat, but
Mine I keep getting text object too large to display. So I don't know if you guys are seeing what I type or not
Got it. You've got potty of books.com
Okay. Yeah potty of books and the name of the book is the failed cities monologue
Which is very interesting by the way
And I don't think we were just discussing this amongst the people who
Typically are there that we're taking January off
And we're probably gonna try to do this one in February maybe to get it going
So that gives you plenty of time to read it. It's fairly short. Okay. You didn't tell me that before
Were you not part of that email Jane? I guess maybe not
No, I
I
Fell
Sleep at the end of the at the end of the show and I woke up all the stairs
Yes, pretty much now I fell asleep here in my chair and I
I woke up after the show ended so I guess I missed all that. Oh, yeah
And yes, it was alcohol related. It always seems to be alcohol related only with
Hey, I said this has to be the most sober that I've been
After
You know after midnight on a new year's show since the beginning. I agree. We can rectify this you know
Oh, I intend to already just got started. Where's the electronic music now? He had one job
Well, I remember that
Where wasn't you what not and took off to the beer store and
Disappeared. I want to say that was during a tilt's episode
Ah, no because I that would be a bad idea because it's a 10 mile drive to town
If I'm already been drinking going to the beer store is not a good idea
I may have been going to the refrigerator and dissipate. Yeah, I think I remember that
You know, I went to the refrigerator and wound and uh
Woke up about 4 a.m. In bed. In fact, I believe that's happened at least more than once
Today now for some reason my best drunken next escapade seemed to happen at Linux conferences
That being said just that being said. I've also seen people at Linux conferences
Have their own drunken escapades that I was very much glad I wasn't participating in alcohol's one hell of a drug
I yep
Like I was at a flora conference once and so there was concurrent with a wedding in the same venue and
They decided to leave someone in the wedding party left behind a
Bundle of probably 500 sparklers and this one dude lit the entire bundle and wound up in the hospital with second-degree burns
Don't not naming any names to protect the innocent
Yes, sometime if you're on a podcast with Dan washcoe you've got to ask him about
oil f the uh the uh the
The wedding party and uh we love Linux. That sounds like uh self in the wedding party
I was thinking it was ol f could be wrong. Well, I mean, I'm not saying that didn't happen at all a lot of like
I just know it's actually it's happened at a couple of cells
Yeah, I think it was self. I've heard that story
Yeah, that was the year that uh
They were giving out drink tickets for anything and everything and there's like one ticket would get you the
18-year-old scotch
I think that was also the last time that red hat sponsored at the after party itself
Leno had it last year. It was pretty sweet
See this this is one of the things that made me mad. We still had
half a kega beer left at oil left this year at the after party
If I'd been a little bit more drunk
I probably would have got and listed some help and drug it back to the room. Have you guys seen cards against IT?
I've heard of it. I want to play that so bad. It's hilarious
Yeah, I haven't seen it. I've heard of it as well, but I'm kind of a little job dude
Really? Yep. Maybe I don't want to play it my
And my calls triggers. Have you guys ever played jungle speed with Murph?
I have not negative. Oh, you got to do that something that that's another card game
What it is you have these cards and they have
patterns and colors and
Most of the time you're trying to match patterns and it's hard to do because you'll you have a matching pattern
But there'll be a different color and there's a lot of patterns that are very very similar
So you go around and you you know, everybody lays down a card and
You know, if two people have a match
Then you have to grab for the wooden totem in the middle of the table and whoever whoever grabs the totem first
wins and
If you both grab the totem at the same time whoever has the highest grip on the totem wins and sometimes
People get cut by fingernails and all that stuff
Trying to get the trying to get the totem, but you know after you've been drinking it gets harder and harder to
Realize, you know, and all of a sudden going all and both people realize at the same time. Oh a match zap
you know, so
And the and what you want to do is wind up with no cards
so if you if you win the challenge then you give your cards to the
person that loses and then there's cards that you turn over if you turn it well
No, you if you if somebody turns over a card
That's a color card. It has the four colors
Then you're no longer matching patterns you're matching colors
So somebody could turn over the color card and where there wasn't a match before suddenly there's a color match
On the table and you got to go for that and if you go for the totem and there's you're not part of a match
That's called a party foul and then you lose that hand
So and you know, there's various in sundry
Party fouls that you that you can commit, but basically what the main one is going for the totem when you you really aren't eligible to do it
So it's you know, it's a great board game and like I said
Alcohol only enhances the experience sounds like my kind of game
So I take it the thing to do is to get metal artificial fingernails and sharpen them
Yes, or a gauntlet or something like that
All right, well, I'm pooping on this party because I get it. I absolutely sleep
I'm going to get back up about six thirty three y'all all good night. Oh, have new year y'all
Yep, not everybody everybody's leaving
See, that's what I say every time before I crash in bed and don't wake up till four in the morning
Yeah, I'm still here
I'm just typing up an email to me if Joe really wants to come join us sometime. I'm
Giving him all the addresses where he can jump in the podcast
I'm sorry
Yeah, yeah, he mentioned he mentioned he would like to maybe join us on other podcasts
So just making an easy form if he wants to do that
You seem to pretty cool dude
I know
Well, I recognize the name once once he said it all so I've heard of him from other podcasts at least
Yes
The podcast by think it's
He's supposed to be a big podcast on me a big ish
Oh, maybe
I don't really follow the podcast and it was
I'm facing
Well, he's got his own at
joeres.com
But I'm I'm thinking he's all one of the other, you know, you know, more famous podcasts
Yeah, that's what that's what I'm thinking when he started saying something
Get a little guy thing in the podcast, isn't that?
Oh, the next slide dice. I think you're right
I'm like
Lift up and there's that it means no, no, I'm picking them. It's probably the podcast thing. There's a podcast
Yeah, but it's a more famous one that he said
The Linux slideites would make sense with the way he was saying he has a lot of it. Yeah, I should have caught on to that
Yeah, he's
when they mentioned that
All camp and places like that I think
That's probably what we meant by guests on this podcast
It's over here. He wanted us to go on his podcast
No, that'd be cool
First I haven't been on a podcast of any sort and quite sometimes
Maybe it's time being all
Wasn't new thing here. I've been on
Gordon's podcast and I've been on
Another one that was linked to that kind of
For that being like a big popper on there
You guys were talking he's in Linux
I trust he does
Metcass now and plus last month he did
Ubuntu UK a couple of
I said Joe does Linux
Luddites
He's also with Metcass podcast and he did last month a couple of
Ubuntu UK podcast with the gang
Yeah, yeah, that's things that I love that love that thing
And okay, yeah, it's on the better podcast is
Well, see you guys gotta go happy new
Yeah, here's a question about two
5150
Since milky washers in here, so
This is 1550
Are you actually here though? Yeah, it's still yeah. Yes, I'm still here
Okay, so I read the
My style guy for
HPR that
I'm living even so early running wide at this with
Just get out in the normal shows later on instead of the result
He was slept there would only be you think that was the right choice now
Well, at least it gives us a little more breathing room to get it edited
Like I said, we I would hate to promise three shows and then find out nobody showed up
Maybe I'd love to
If people ever come to me to really show us the answers being shown again
And part of it was the first one would have had to gone out tonight and you know
I've been here on the channel just about all
All day that I wasn't doing something else. There's no way I could have edited and it would have you know
Ken was gonna do it again, and we didn't want Ken to have to do it. So
You know that was that was part of the reason too
You know, it was the edit scene where it's putting the theme g-man
taking the right space out the right noise
And the space isn't it
And the show yep that is pretty much yet a lot of it would be you know, maybe figure out where there would be two hours or whatever
you know of
show without
you know after the
After the silences were removed
You know, there certainly wasn't anything like when Ken and I started recording
What three a.m. About and the one they said hardly anything till
8 a.m. The next more or tomorrow yet this morning and then you know, I don't think there was
Uh, like I talked to honky a little and then there really wasn't anything again to almost 10 o'clock
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think um
But yeah, sometimes I'm gonna be busy anyway because
That are the first time zones I have that time then
What time is in those times?
Yep, and we're coming up on new years for the mountain time zone in about 10 minutes
Apparently
It's good to do that actually
If it fits in and there's always a discussion in the way
Um, but yeah, it's the need of a lot of time zone
What are you recording in the show and that's powerful not support?
Uh, well, they expected in
Uh shoot
High and higher dog
I'm recording I'm recording in a in wave
Yeah, I've got a five terabyte hard drive sitting there, so it's it'll have room for it
It's not too big, but if it's on for too long it's going to be really big
Well time it off like an offening wave because I can listen to the best on the actual podcast
When it comes out
Yeah, like I said they prefer hacker public radio prefers it flak. So it's not like I want to record it in aug and then up
Upcoded to flak. So you know, long as I've got space. I'll I'll record in wave
The
Flak wave and flak or flak is just bad quality. What's the difference between man and wife?
Well, what wave is absolutely uncompressed? It's raw flak is is a high quality compression standard
Higher than either all grim p3
Right, so this flak is really the best but we'll do otherwise basically
Flak is
Discompressed, but it's lossless compress
Right, but it you know if I could record in flak, I'd do that but I can only record in wave
Allgun mp3
I should have got some better sleep last night. I'm gonna be lucky to make it two hours much less three to the well
It's two hours to the east coast. Well, no, I guess it's an hour. It's because we're coming up on mountains
So it's an hour to east coast and then originally my plans were keep going for an hour after that
So I can probably hang in for two hours. Otherwise, you'd just tear me storing on the link
Yeah, I could stab even younger but I'm gonna go in the back, I think
because it is
Later here
Not tired though
Then what what I think is why can we call it in flak?
Well, mumble doesn't record in flak
That's okay, right. Yeah, it's a policy actually
And I will be back. I am going just to the refrigerator this time for beer
Good night, dude. Hey, Seb you working on any interesting projects
Wait, say that again. You're working on any interesting projects
Uh, well, not believe programmers, so in that sense, no
But um, I'm meaning to get some
A speech or two done this year for a public speaking group. I need to do more speeches
Um, and I've also got fast them coming up
And I'll be in there with my project there
And then also
I'll get some talks openly
You know, I'm familiar with fast them. Uh, what what talks are you looking at giving?
No, no, I don't I won't go any tacky talks that fills them
But um for my group, I'm going to be doing a speech about um
Like soft skin, flingles actually next or something like that
I've had the idea for a while. It's just like how you're making sort of
So-and-trade minute speech making kind of funny
I was having the kind of serious side as well
Um, hopefully that yeah
So my idea I've had for a while, so I kind of need to do it
Not even do have a fake window because she can just
Show you the world blue screen this for example, blue screen with death because no one really knows that. Yeah
Yeah, fake scandals
They've done with amounts of porn and not
Would be what people for their son people do
Well, if you get it accepted somewhere and it gets recording put up. Let me know. I'd like to watch it
Oh, I recorded it for that's like uh
Well, I'll miss your personal video, but um yeah
But uh very for some strengths of you because you have to meet ladies of different people
Happy me to that time zone then
Okay, I made it back. So happy new year to
More parts of the US Canada
Calgary dendor Edmonton Phoenix and I'm gonna take the opportunity right now to stop and restart my recording
We're now off the record and we're back on although
It can fall in recording. There's always a backup well right and honky and we're gonna figure out how we're gonna cut that up
But
I'll see if I can't get a good chunk up it tomorrow sometime
I
Hate to I hate to do it and then find out all three of us have done its
Simultaneously, but who knows it might work out that way and like we said we're really not doing
much of anything except
Hitting truncate silence and thrown it on a plate
And if anybody's listening out there you would think there would be a way to do it
Is there any way in audacity? You know if I want if I want to combine two recordings in audacity
I've got to export one of them the wave and of course that's lossless
uncompressed, but still and perhaps I'm completely wrong
Yeah, still I get the impression that wouldn't be as good if if I could just combine
uh, you know two original audacity sections
Sessions with each other so if anybody knows there's a way to do that. I've never been able to figure it out
So I
And what I may do for this evening is we've still got
West Coast
Coming up and don't anybody feel like they need to hang around on the show with me if they're ready to go to bed, but
Probably at that point the way I'm feeling if there's if there's nobody around in the in the audio
I'm just gonna leave the recording running and
And plug it back in the speakers and go to sleep on the couch and anybody needs me if they shout loud enough
I'll probably hear him. Okay, what you can do is you open the you open both projects
You'll get two separate audacity sessions, but you can actually copy the audio from one session into the other sessions
Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense
Might take a while if you had two big files, and I probably don't probably not going to combine two of the bigger files
when I did the KPO last week
You know, it was well after move silences. It was two hours, but it was
Start out three hours, and it was just doing anything with that file was just chugging the whole system
You know
Wow, man, you just you were breaking up way bad for me lunches silencing. I didn't get any of that
But doing the copy and paste thing is much faster than doing an export and import. Oh, okay
Well, good looks like hacker public radio is filled in through the next two weeks
Of course that may mean if we don't get on the stick you guys won't
Hear this recording till February sometime
Still pretty bad
Zika yeah, that sounded like a sample you would use in a trans show
Just not getting any better. Yeah, it still sounds like a sample for a trans show bad audio. I figured I might as well say hi
Hey, underrunner. How's it going? Do I sound okay? Yeah, you sound great
I've kind of been wary of talking because I've had audio issues the last couple of times I've tried
Well, you sound perfect to us right now. I don't know if you guys remember me
I was the one that did the hpr episode on Christmas lights. Oh, yeah, that's
That's actually one of my favorites using a pie to do the Christmas lights
I never got the pie to successfully work for the way I have everything figured I was using Arduino
See, I never had time. I got him. I got to make time next year
I've just got a
Perfect cedar tree between the house and the road, you know, so I got to it wouldn't take too long to run some power out there
So I need I need to do some kind of display for next year. I want to play Tetris on the side of the house next year
I wasn't around last year to actually set it up
So this system has been sitting in my attic all for two years without me touching it
I pulled it back out this year, so still ironing kinks out that I forgot about
I do ride really you do realize it's almost getting too late. I yeah, it is way past too late
But I mean like right now they're all off because it rained and uh, I know I've got a short and one of my lines somewhere out there
Because I was actually I'm actually building the extension cords like I'm buying a
Was that garden lighting wire and I'm splicing on connectors for both sides so I can just plug it in
Normally, but I I guess I didn't seal everything up correctly when it rains or
Gives a little bit humid outside everything turns off
Well, you don't want to be that guy that in in in March you're still
Flashing light in your neighbor's windows in the middle of the night. I haven't read even your front yard
The wife actually gave me permission to set it up in the backyard. So I might be that guy
How many strobe lights do you have? I don't have any strobe lights
I'm just using regular strings. I know I just got all the strings hooked up to relays and
But my my issue is like I know how to do all the hardware don't know how to do all the synchronized programming
So I just find stuff online and throw it in there and cross my fingers at everyone's happy with it
But I actually need to get that I got this thing. I call a mega tree. It's a
22 strings that connect to a two by four 13 feet the two by four 13 feet tall and the strings are go from the top down
And it kind of looks like a Christmas tree at night each string is individually controlled
And I'd like to try and do like a spiral around it and stuff like that
But the way I got it now it just everything's just kind of random still think you need to do the Tetris
Well, one of my buddies gave me some of those pixel strips from Adafruit and he says you need to try these
So I don't know that might be coming see you're giving me all kinds of ideas for next year
I could hook up the motion sensor so it only comes on when people drive by and then blinds them with strobe lights exactly
Put a million a couple million candle spotlights out there and pointed that up and down the road
I was really kind of worried about that at the beginning
Because they were these relays the guy the program I stole our borrowed
The guy had it set for 10 milliseconds
And it was just way too fast and I was worried someone might actually drive off the road
Because I live along a highway and it's like 55 out there
So yep, definitely need the million candles spotlights
But what I need to do is set up lights so that they come on and then there looks like there's outline of a giant crampus
Out there in front of the tree
Ha that would be great
Crampus knocked
Now the farmer's life that lives across the street she she's in her husband over asked me
Or talked to me about it like because they were worried that the cows are getting upset about the
All the flashing but I said no, I'm cows don't care
Yeah, I wouldn't think it having effect sour the meat or something. I don't think so
Well, I mean if you go out there and the cows are all just staring at lights and then you know
Well next year I'll just feed them on the other side of the hill and they won't even be around there
I know I should have like space invaders coming down from the top of the tree
Japanese dude. I know apparently
For New Year's decided he just do sushi and lobster
Well my mom was from the south and she always insisted on fried chicken and black eyed peas
That sounds about right even
Got where I like the black eyed peas you stir in oil hot sauce or something give them some taste
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure all over be a fan of black eyed peas
Yeah, dad had these
Friends, well, they're you know, they were
Sun and grandson, I guess of
Of one of the guys he served with in their force they'd always want to come out
um
Feson hunting in the fall since I guess we got better feson hunting than they do down south here
but
So they'd always come by but man
They put hot so they put the basketball on everything. I mean if you served them a bowl of ice cream
They'd want the basketball sauce for it. Hey underrunner. You ever go take cow tipping?
That doesn't exist. I know. No, I've never done that
Now they've these steers alone across area. They're pretty mean looking yeah
West they just run all over the woods out there and throw stuff at him to get him out of the road out there
No, I was tight mom was from out in Oklahoma and
Just telling me about this bowl that she saw walk through a cactus patch walk right through it
The junk dragon through the cactus didn't even phase it
Well, I got a little bowl now that we just got last year and uh, you know, he's not really in full grown yet
Uh
But he got out in the neighbor's pasture across the road here a couple months ago and I tried
You know, he was in the pen next to the pen next to the pen, you know, he's like
you know three miles away from where he should have been and
There was engaged you know in between
The one part so I had to jump the fence and I was trying to walk him back and you know, he you know for the first hour
He put up with it, but when he started getting tired, you know, he started
He turned around start pulling the dirt and I said, okay, this this is my cue to get my ass back on the other side of the fence
At that point, it's time for some fresh steak. Well, at least some help
Steak. Oh, it's all the same. No, I was talking about hot sauce Tom lords
put from
Sunday morning Linux review he posted the other day on
Facebook, you know
Yeah, meeting some
Ghost Pepper sauce that he'd found on chips and
Yes, Tom Valgood. It was you know, I said man, I got a party with you next time. I'm
Back in Detroit. I said I won't be able to feel my face for three days
Uh friend of mine used to get this hot sauce that was, you know
They advertised it as the hottest hot sauce in the world and it was pretty tasty
Put about a drop in a giant tub of sour cream. That was the hottest day on sour cream I've ever had
Ha ha ha ha
Well back in college was somebody's birthday
And mill the weeks. We all took it as excuse to go up to the bar. Uh, no no shocker there
and
Somebody got the bride idea start start ordering prairie fires and what a prairie fire is
It's a shot at a kilo with like three drops to basco in there and you know
There's no redeeming factor. It's just that once somebody starts ordering them then everybody to be a man
Has to can you know, nobody can say no, I'll have a daiquiri, you know
So the rest of the night here we are drinking prairie fires for two hours
I bet that felt good the next day. I think I slept through the next day
See that's a dang part of getting old, you know sometimes
You know, I can understand I like spicy food and then I know the next day. I'm probably gonna pay for it
But you know, there's times like you know, it's like some of
Bitch, what you know, I didn't eat anything yesterday that was hot
I'm thinking I'm getting old because I get hangovers now
And I used to not do it or get any
I used to be able to sit there and put away a fifth of their own and be cheaper and daddy the next day
I remember my first year of college. I always got the sins terrible bad
Bring back bad memories like sure that in the first couple dot times. I had it
You know had a bunch of beer and somebody said here's a shot of whiskey there, you know
Finally
Yeah, it takes a couple times to get used to that first couple time you just wish somebody to shoot you
You know how like the last time you say, yeah, that's the last time and I'm not gonna do that again
I've said that a lot of times. I was sitting out here in the shop and I was looking out the window
And I've seen this headlamp going by and I knew a neighbor was walking out to check their mail and I ran out there
Hey, what's going on scared the hell out of them anyway, they he brought me back to
Start drinking with them and it was all this that American
Water beer. Oh, I saw that stuff off a long time ago and you know, you just sometimes you just slip up and you can't keep with it
Well, see I went to
Of turning reunion old couple months ago and they had a tub of beer and they you know, they had
Shock top. I think it yeah, so no, no, no
But they had a boulevard brand bud like and cures
How so I yes, I started I started out with with boulevard and then
You know, they ran out of that I drank the bud light and then finally got down to you're gonna make me drink cures
Aren't you? Yeah, and see I was the last one in line too
So the last cures I had was the display bottle that was out on top of the table
They just stuck back in the ice so it was warm if we're dropping brand names
I try and stare around the yinglings and the fat tires he was drinking
But Budweiser out of aluminum can or aluminum bottles that just wrecked me
You haven't lived until you've had a 40 behind it 7 11
Well, I shouldn't talk because I'm drinking steel reserve right now. Oh my
Well, it's I like a multi beer and surprisingly, you know, even though this is a logger
You know, it's cheap as hell it it uh, you know, it's eight point and
There there's a lot of more expensive beers. I don't like as well. I have to say
Well, I'm glad I found these yinglings and I kind of fell in love with them because they're like nine
999 10 bucks for the 12 pack bottles
I mean it sucks carrying bottles around but it's pretty good stuff and it's a lot cheaper in fat tire
That stuff will be like
14 on sale 17 normal. Oh, yeah, I like fat tire, but of that same brand was yeah new Belgium
If you like that, I would try was it the 1775 and the Abbey
Yeah, I've had the 1775 but I haven't seen the Abbey
Unfortunately my favorite beer is a bit expensive because you have to fly to Prague to get it
The beer itself is cheap, but the trip to the beer store is a bit expensive actually in fact it's literally cheaper than water
Well, at least it isn't like your
quadruple ice-frued beer or whatever it is it's that
You know all they do is keep freezing it to raise the alcohol content. Oh, no, it's
Definitely not that and the reason why it's not available over here is they don't put any kind of preservatives in it
So but if you were to ship it here unless you did it like first-class error-mere
You know normal shipping channels it just wouldn't keep well
Yeah, that's like if you go to brew pub and you buy a growler, you know to take home
All the good stuff is this you know, no, that won't keep till you get home
You know both the brew pubs in Wichita. They just have all this to die for barley wine
But you can't you know, they won't they won't let you put in a growler. So
Bring home something you know, they've got some really good stuff that I bring home
And I thought you know, I I was walking around trying to find everybody the first day of thirsty of OLF
See where everybody gone and so finally I just you know, followed my nose and found
Barley's and thought I'd really discovered something till I found out everybody knew where Barley's was and it was the
you know the
Ascension essentially the favorite brew pub of OLF
Yeah, it's pretty much the place. So I go in there and say well as well because so early in the fallances
Your your name's the place is Barley's and you don't have a barley wine on tap
And he says me you got to wait about five weeks
Wasn't cold enough yet
Yeah, that's Barley's
actually
I the former co-worker actually ordered me a red hat. That's from Toledo. I'll just see if he can get me some Barley's
You know all the food too, you know the the fried
Uh
Sour-crout balls man
I want to try to get to OLF this coming year. Are you gonna try to go?
Well, I was this last year so I don't you know, my my goal would been to you know, hit different ones
You know
If Lorde makes it to
Pinocon, I may redo pinocon again
Uh
Though really if I want to hit one in the fall, I think OLF's OLF's pretty much the only game in town
Though, I mean, you know a couple other people
Uh invited me so why don't you come to ours? I think there was a North Dakota Linux Fest
Either a month earlier or a couple weeks later or whatever. So you know like like I said it would be it
Now that I'm in position where I can travel a little bit. It's gonna be my goal to
You know try to hit different ones. I really want to hit Northwest Linux Fest because they're brewing and the science building and all that that they have
Available it's supposed to be such a great
Tour and man, I'm I'm hoping Jonathan sometime maybe if that if there be a Northeast Linux Fest again doesn't look
So much like it. I mean if they're you know
uh
And you if there was any
Chance that they're being an Indiana Linux Fest you know that'd be great, but uh, you know
Wrote there's a few of them they're just right out like self. I'll never be able to get to that
Uh some of them like scale. I think that's fairly expensive to get into
So but you know, there's there's others. I'd probably like to go down to Texas sometime
Check that one out
The Texas Linux Fest is only is generally the week for self
Hey, I think that was enough earlier this year. I could have made it to it
Uh, there's also a faucet con which is a fairly new one in Florida their first one was last year and they did their second one this year
Well, cool. Maybe I could uh go to this new world or meet up with rich or something
Oh, yeah, it's actually in Orlando. So you can hit up all the theme parks
Oh, man, I've been wanting to do that. I mean, I just may have to plan that some year. Of course the theme parks are not particularly cheap
No, uh, when I went
Uh, they're put to the first one. I didn't do the theme parks
First my uh my adding fanciness of the trip was I took the train down from Raleigh in back. Okay. Yeah, that sounds like fun
Yeah, probably even before I would go to Disney World or other stuff. I'd like to see in Disney World
I am more of interested in the dark rides and stuff uh, you know, I'd like to go to the
Harry Potter Potter rides, but you know the part I would like about the Harry Potter stuff is the whole queue where you have the
paintings talking to you in the different rooms as you walk in because I've seen
I've seen the ride for that seems to me like the uh ride at least you know where you're flying in the hog warts
That's you know after all the previous stuff that seems kind of lame, you know, you're on a thing
You know on a broomstick or whatever supposedly and saying yes come with us and and uh come the hog warts
And then you get the hog warts and it's and they're like yeah, don't let the door hits you in the ass on the way out
I did go there. It was just absolutely packed with people and kids that that area gets a lot of attention
People that love Harry Potter and you could do it, but people would die
I would love if they put the deal on there if you get the hog warts then you
Then uh what you do is you get on the moving stairways that swing around
One place to another, but you know they can't do that without killing somebody
Now I like the cheaper side of stuff like that stuff was all expensive
But down next to city hall in Orlando
There's a place called Lake Eola Eola
And it was built
I can't remember when when Walt Disney was still alive and he funded this park and it's the city park
Around the lake and they got all sorts of plant, you know interesting plants all around it and uh
All sorts of swan ducks and stuff like all the exotic type of stuff
It's just a really cool public park that you can go to
Right next in downtown and uh, they had like a dome out in the lake out in the
I'm lake, I guess you could call it and it changes colors
It's a fountain kind of like that thing you see I'm married with children and uh
Speakers all over and all over the place so it's like this consistent music as you're just walking around this lake
We'll see I follow these guys to do theme parks and sometimes abandoned places and stuff on
YouTube and movie locations with mainly Disney stuff and
What got me started on that was when we did in the book club
uh down and out in the in the
Magic Kingdom I'd been to both Disney parks, but I you know
I knew when I went to Disneyland that the haunted mansion was closed
But I couldn't remember anything about going through
haunted mansion and Disney world even though I'd been in there
So I started going through you know looking at ride videos and I looked at that and uh
And it came back you know pretty much came back to me
Um most of it so it's okay. I've been there, but you know that led me to
You know some of these videos people doing Disney history and all that kind of things that kind of got me into it
And I forget where I was oh, I know what it is that they're you know doing a big conversion in the next three years in Disneyland
uh put putting in the Star Wars world or whatever and I was like yeah
You get me a ride where I can you know actually get in the turbo laser from the millennium Falcon
You know if the hydraulics and you go up and down and around and all that stuff
That I'll get on playing tomorrow. You get you get me that but uh
shorter that we'll have to take it under consideration
You know
The company that I have that does my uh my brass etching for me
Did a lot of work for the Harry Potter movies like they did the wings on the snitch and just various odds and ends like that
They made higher ball to they did that
Yeah, it's like when you said that there was a lot of brass work in various places in those movies
They're the company. I didn't find this out. So I was just poking around their website one day and I like hey, we did the Harry Potter movies
Well all the
practical effects for
Apollo 13 were were done you know within 60 miles of me on the campus of a junior college it happens to have a
very extensive
Aerospace Museum. Oh, that's pretty cool. You know all the weightless stuff that would you know that was actually done
in a 707 and you know they you know
When the vomit comment where they would go you know
go up and then dive and have a few seconds of virtual weightlessness and that's how you know
That's how they did the whole movie is they built you know the the set of the capsule inside their plane and so like I said that's
That was all done
Pretty close to me
Kind of etchings that you get done. I'm kind of interested in that type of type of thing
I've had a couple gift ideas from my wife
I've been thinking about doing like thought about doing like a stainless steel etching
With a battery charger here in the shop, but actually getting it so it could work. I haven't got that far yet
I do a lot of etchings for my I do model trains
And so I use a lot of etch parts for them and I used to do CAD for living so
It seems to be a natural fit. I draw them up and send them off and a few weeks later. I get a
Might get the etching back and as far as softer. I use I use open scab and blender
Yeah, I took CAD back in high school and I used to be able to work at one that teacher used to stand behind me and tell me what to do
Open scab blender all that stuff. I can't
I don't have a clue anymore. I was just trying to take photographs and get them down far enough
To be able to etch like faces and have them recognizable on there
But I mean that's it's a lot of detailed omission of information on the on the image to be able to get it down far enough
So you can actually do something because like I was thinking about
Having it cut on vinyl and then doing the sticking the vinyl on there
So then it would etch everything else off of there
Well that may or may not work
Is the the acids that are used for etching are pretty powerful
Well, I've played around with just using baking soda and a battery charger. I don't it looked okay
I mean for large things
I don't know if it would be good for anything quite that detailed. Well the company I use is ppd limited
And what you might could do is take your photograph and open it up in gimp and just play around them gimp and
Delete a bunch of stuff. You know just turning to a set of black and white lines
And if you send that to them they can etch that
Yeah, that's what I've been trying was trying to do, but I don't know it's very
I get distracted trying trying to turn it in the black and white lines. It's just a lot of
Well, it's a pictures of our dogs. I was thinking about doing on there and you know dogs are
Just black lines anyways. I tried looking at someone that did laser cutting because I thought it might be a little bit easier on me
To supply the image
And I'd be about the same actually it would be with a laser cutter. You need a raster image
Not I'm sorry not raster, but a vector image a raster image won't work with laser cutter
The house instead of is the vector like if you just take a regular image and make a black and white and do all that stuff
Pull it all out and then turn it into a vector
I know it's got a lot of extra information in the image, but can they use that you can't really go from raster to vector
You can go from vector to raster
I'm sorry. I'm thinking
A vector image or a raster image doesn't have actually enough of the right information
To do a vector image
A vector image is basically you have exact coordinates for all your lines and every point in space
Yeah, ppd limited. That's like really cool. I'm looking at their military stuff
And they got looks like that. I'm looking at their ship down there
Then they got all those masks and lines. I'll cut out a brass. That's pretty cool
Yeah, that's the place
So earlier I said I got a lot of shorts and those extension cords. I've been building. I actually been thinking as a squirrels
I've had so many squirrel problems this year
Well then chewing up all my christmas lights. I've had to rebuild a couple of lines. They're actually taking
They're not just chewing them in half. They're actually taking sections of wire out entire like three inch four inch sections of wire
And I don't know what they're doing with it or why they're taking it, but they've been just chewing it up
And I'm wondering if they've been chewing up my extension cords because I got them running through up through the trees and stuff
Oh, that sounds like squirrels all right
Well one of my old grain trucks uh two summers ago
You know, I
Don't know I didn't catch you when I opened the hood started up
All sudden started shooting water out and they're rats at eating through the heater hose. Did they like the antifreeze?
I don't know. I didn't ask them. No, I mean there there was a hole
You know, you'd stick a quarter through that's a good one in that thing
So apparently soon he used a rather special screw on the hard drive holders from their ps4s and it has
Looks like it though. It has the four ps4 controller buttons that's into it
You know like they're circled the square triangle and plus
That's something made so you could you can't unscrew it. Oh, it has a regular phillips center
Okay, so I'm trying to configure
Open WRT on my raspberry or my banana pie router
So I've got my one of my raspberry pie twos plugged into it as a client
So it's getting its IP from the banana pie router. So I should be able to use a browser and log into the router
Is it working? I'm getting there. I just launched the browser
I don't see the reason it shouldn't well. I'm at the
login page of the banana pie. Well, I have to do a little more research on
what the
Password is I was pretty sure I'd seen that was supposed to be
user name root and password root. I tried user name root and password black and password password
So must be something else. Is it time? Yep. We're coming up on the west coast
You want to do the honor, sir?
All right
It is now midnight
Pacific standard time
Greetings and happy new years to regions of the USA
Some regions of Canada
Los Angeles San Francisco
Las Vegas and Seattle
And a Phoenix, Oregon
Okay, I'll accept that answer. So it's camera cans. This is not Cairo. Yeah
Well, the way it is Cairo, Illinois
But you see that the way these were
You know those locations were named. It's just
Randomly they go along with the railroad and say yeah, we'll have a switch here
You know and a siding here and you got to remember this was the 1930s or you know early 30s
And these were people
Before much a radio before you know before TV definitely
And the way I'm assuming it
They meant
Cairo like Cairo, Egypt
But they'd never seen it you know that never heard the word pronounced
Could be you know limit Cairo like Cairo, Illinois
But that's that's just how these places got named before there was ever anything there
The railroad came along and said yeah, here would be a good place to put a siding
And about four miles to the
Further west there you know the next the next place was called wall deck and there used to be a family their prominent called wall dock
So somebody just screwed that one up somehow, but the you know that's that's how these places got their names
There used to be a place to the Easter here not too far called Skellyville and it was you know
It was named that because it was a center of a huge natural gas field back in the forties and of course
You know everybody you know
There's nothing there anymore, but they're used to there used to be kind of like a little shanny town or or company town
I should rather say and you know and of course everybody worked for Skelly
I don't want to contradict you and that's true for everywhere up there
But I'm over here in South Carolina nowadays and the old-timer I was talking to down here
He said that all the town names along here are named after
Families and the way that they did it was wealthy families that were paying for
Part of this railroad. They said well, we need to stop every so often and so they threw all the family names into the hat
And they drew them out all right stop number one is going to be this place
And this place in this place and so on and so on well
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm certain there's more than one way to choose
Can't imagine there was ever a family around here named Cairo or Cairo
What part of South Carolina you in the Charleston reef the low country
I'm originally from Beaufort North Carolina
Beaufort they don't call that Beaufort elsewhere
It's Beaufort and since Beaufort came first. I think we get the rights to the name
All right, I
Everything down here. I know you got to if you if you don't know the local language people kind of look at you
Cross I like they know you're not from here because every just like he's talking about Cairo Cairo
There's that type of stuff going on down here, too
Hey, if you if you go up to Fayetteville North Carolina
There's a part of town called Skybow and you can tell all the Yankees because they say a ski bow
You know I hear the only I'm saying the only time you hear Cairo on the news as if there's a
funder storm or tornado heading towards us and
There was a big one coming down
Several years good fact did did a lot damage killed some people, but
You know, you had the old weather man older weather man and the premise weather man on the on the
TV and they were just tornadoes everywhere across this part of the state that night
But that old weather man he need to make he told that that younger guy now you make
You make sure you say Cairo because those people lose their roofs tonight and they will be up here tearing us
And you ask hold the morning if you if you say it wrong
He he he there's a town in a street down here spell H
U
G
E
R
I have been pronouncing it huger, but that's how you stand out is not being a local because locals call that
QG
Wait out they say huge E and not
Then there's no R on it. It's huge E
Through for the locals. There's no R even though it's spelled within our they don't pronounce the R
Yeah, you'll run into places like it all over names and it's like
How did they get that from that spelling oh hell look at how Gloucester is spelled well and in England and and whales and stuff there
You know there are a lot of little towns with like 40 syllable names you you would
Swear Monty Python made up, you know, it's like West Bend, Bolly, Bingbong, Ding, Ding, you know something like that
Now back back home in Oregon. We got a place called a road called we call a violin
And if you're from anywhere else, you're going to call it villas
So we're one of the that's one of our our my things and I do wrong. I'll say a violin instead of villas
And I realize I just represented I just offended all of great Britain
So I'm sure that'll start a flame war on the on the
Side or towards towards me personally
Flame all you might as well go ahead and just say emax is better than them
No, I ain't touching that one
Actually here back in August I made the switch from them to emax and you survived to tell the tale
Yeah, oh so emax comes with doctor mode
So you can take you can tell all your frustrations to the built-in psychoanalyst
Well, it is a standalone operating system all by itself that comes with a psychoanalyst
Now actually that would explain a lot
Yeah, my friend Ava was the one I was so you know, I made did my trip around the country back in August right
Well, when I stayed in Chicago with my friend Ava, she's like, hey, so yeah, I'm using emax. You should really try it out
I'm like, I don't know and she's like come on and basically peer pressured me into it
So I installed emax and I have been using it since I show presently the return it is beer time
I got this Arduino hooked into this
Christmas light controller
But I'm only using this Arduino for like a month out of the year
So I got 11 other months
That I could be using this Arduino and I'm trying to think what else could I be using this for and I've recently typed in
Arduino space
Fireworks and this looks really cool. It also sounds kind of interesting
Of course anything that involves fireworks sounds interesting to me
Oh, I mentioned to some of these mate guys around here and they started giving me a bunch of hell about it
I like no, you don't need to be doing that because uh, I don't trust those Arduino's that much
Because they could accidentally start your show in the wrong order or something like that
Well, you just don't plug it in until you have everything set up and ready to go and everyone's out of the way
And also hook up some LEDs and to the outputs and watch them blink and make sure that they blink in the right order
I guess we're kind of spoiled out here because we do have access to fireworks any day of the any day of the year we like don't we?
Yeah, y'all self Carolina boys got it easy. We got to smuggle it over the state mine. Are really
All right, well JR's I think it was near JR's there's a fireworks stand up there in North Carolina
That's where we always get the best ones that the best mortars at least
Well, I mean the bottle rockets are banned up here by the way
Straping a bunch of mortars and Roman candles to the sides of of Albu and lighting them off and going to driving down the road
Is a sure way to attract the cops
Well, I like I said it really real long inside this highway
I think there's been a once or twice me in the neighbor might have accidentally tipped over a mortar on its side or
Right at the right time. No, no, I mean actually
Attached to the car driving along fire shooting out out of the sides of the car driving or parked
Driving down the highway. Yeah, the cop pull just over as we just let off lit off another round
And so we're sitting there with a cop pull behind us and things are just going because you know
You can't stop them
Wonder you didn't get yourself shot. You would have these days
Well, yeah, probably cop is probably laughing too damn hard to aim
Well, we only got a warning
Definitely a gentleman with a sense of humor then
Yeah, he was a Carter County Sheriff's deputy. So, you know
And he might or might not have known us already
Well, I remember when this was going on. I could have been more five or six
See used to be you guys talked about cow tipping one of the pranks that people used to do for
Halloween back in the old days was to tip over people's outhouses and
so
You know that
My dad and his friends got the idea to
And okay, so look yeah put get an outhouse and put it in the front lawn of the
local drugest and tip it over who's also another one their friends and
So I remember of doing this they got one you know the
Of course, yeah, well see we had a bunch outhouses because when there was an air base here during World War 2
My grandfather had a bunch of these little tiny houses that were built all around the property and you know for the construction workers
And then they'd actually live in them and eight hour shifts. So it was kind of like a little shity thing
I guess my grandfather was the today you'd call the slum lord
Uh, but each of these places had an outhouse and so growing up
You know at that age there were still four or five outhouses
Uh left on the property and they took the best one of them and they painted it up and
They tied it up in the back of my dad's old Jeep pickup and off the town he goes, you know with the
uh
Bank president and the accountant I think or whatever, but one of them was definitely the bank president
And they said they were going down the road with this outhouse in the back of the truck and here comes Sheriff's car up behind them
and the sheriff's car pulls up alongside him and of course he looks over there and there's there's the bank president and
Other pillars of the community in the cabin that old Jeep truck and he just he just put the throttle down got the hell out of there
Because he didn't want he knew he didn't have want to have nothing to do with with whatever was going on
So what happened to the outhouse? Well, I just said they took they took it to the uh drugest
Front lawn uh, you know and tipped it over and that was the joke
So kind of a similar story. I used to
wire houses
I was in high school and I was a new burn working the job when they and I'm sitting there on the front step of the house
Eating my lunch and
C-Met truck comes up to pour another driveway in the subdivision there and
Well, someone had parked the portage on right in the middle of where the driveway was going to go
So the C-Met truck driver got out kicked it a couple times
I guess to make sure no one was in it got back in the C-Met truck and just removed it
And it smelled rather nice for the next few days and that particular cold to sack. I swear
I thought you you were gonna say he just left it there and instead of the driveway and cemented it in
I'm sure he considered it, but he probably would have been called back
Y'all are better than me. I don't think I'm gonna be able to keep up with you all here
I've already done
Better than I figured I would. I'll probably hang till the next hour point and like said probably leave it running and call tonight
You have had met direction myself
If any if anybody is in in the Pacific and wants to get up and
You know join the show. They're more than welcome. I'll leave it on speaker
So even you know if if if they think they need me to join in they they can just shout real loud
And it'll wake me up. I'm sure. I'll play my flute for you
Now somebody's probably listening on the stream and if they could oh, yeah, we'll get 15 about an hour
Pegwall come on and plays damn didgery-doo or some shit
Yeah, I can see that. You know speaking of Pegwall
I haven't heard anything out of him or three thirty in a while
Well for a long time and I think still three thirty didn't have very good
Internet connection where he was
Which actually probably means three thirties neighbors didn't have a very good internet connection
Yeah
And Pegwall amazingly enough seems to have a social life these days. So you know, we never know when he's gonna show up on
KPO wait Peggy social life. That's the story. I don't believe it. Yeah tell him by golly you want pictures
Hey, sorry didn't happen and again
For a bunch of people who objected so hard to the best of my knowledge other in lord D
Nobody from tilts ever showed up today. Maybe they were on the stream enjoying what was going on
But gee, I kind of expected him to drop in sometime
Disappointed
I guess next year if I go on and yeah, I don't know if we're gonna be able to do the show and you know, they start
And what do you mean there's no gonna be no hpr show and say well, where the hell were you guys last year getting really dropped
That's a possibility of course Joel has, you know, I can see why he's not around
But everybody else makes such a big big stink about there being no show
Guys, you know, you know, you know where we are. I guess you know, he's come on Linux logcast or KPO
Some night to interact with your buddies over here, but
Yeah, this is this is the one top kind of behind on everything. I heard about it through tilts and I was kind of shocked
Well, I saw it on Facebook. So I knew about it, you know
About as soon as anybody else. I missed something here. What oh, I guess you don't know uh again
From everybody HP are and all the listeners condolences to
Uh Joel McLaughlin's family. They've suffered a loss of Joel's mother over the holidays and
Ah, yeah, yeah, I okay. I knew about that. Yeah, dude. I'm sorry
Yeah, well, it's still you know still bears bear saying we're all big, you know family here and you know
Uh, and in this time, you know, we all all
Feel the loss, you know last last year when my dad passed, you know, I had a lot of support from everybody. So
Uh, and I I'm still thankful for that. So
Yeah, any man anything we can do indeed. I can't say too many times, you know folks
Be safe this time of year. I'm about as safe as I could be because I'm not leaving the house tonight
Uh, but for everybody who's getting out and around and you know, there's bad weather
Some places and other
hazards other places and
Probably if you're listening to me right now if you and if you're in trouble, you're being you know, it's it's probably too late this time of night to be
ending out warnings, but here's hoping that everybody had
Uh, really really safe holiday. I don't want to wake up tomorrow to
You know find out there. There's been another
loss or accident or anything like that. So this
This is just my prayer that everybody in the community stay safe tonight. I can get behind that
Yeah, you agree the miserable even even if it's not even part of the community if it's just in your faces
You know, you want everyone around you to just be safe. Right. And I mean
Let's let's face it. This this is
Being being on here and hanging out is probably about as safe a way to to celebrate
Uh, the holidays you could find. Well, I mean, there still is the possibility of
Outlaw intoxication or
The computer exploding in their face and killing you or something like that
That is possible and and uh, you know, I was a little surprised earlier earlier today that uh
You know, I went to put on my suit. You guys probably, you know, probably heard that I had a service
I had to go to or leave a friend the family and you know
Six months ago or not even six months ago four months ago last time
I had to wear the suit for a similar situation
You know, it's the one I bought a year ago and it just fit perfectly
And today, you know, man, even my shoes were too tight
So
That's put me on a kind of warning. Maybe I'm do
That sounds like more water retention than actual
Real weight gain. So I think I better check back in with my
GP
Because he was worried about my blood pressure last time I was in there. So
I'm getting to the age probably I'm gonna start taking the damn pills
Yeah, best get a handle on that
Yeah, I lead to oh, sorry, you know, I hate to get you know, my my parents were like, you know
Both of them were like taking 20 pills a day. These big pill minders and you know, it's like man
I hate to take to look at my own mortality that I'm at that point, but
I guess I am make sure you unplug your solder and iron before you go to sleep
I haven't been soldering anything today. I have everyone to listen and make sure you unplug it before you go to sleep
That's that's always good words of advice public service now. Yeah, no
And if you put your wireless headset and your and your
media player in the microwave always unplug the microwave
That's a little joke. No, that one, don't you? No, no
Well, my first uh, years ago, I still had fairly slow ethernet. I had a
2.4 gigahertz wireless headset so I could walk around
But it would go off you know, it would quit you know every time I turn the microwave on
I'd lose a signal and I don't know I must have got one one of these nights
When I had too much to drink and I was on KPO or whatever
Uh, you know, I woke up the next morning couldn't find my headset anywhere until I opened the microwave
Oops microwave was toast to oops
Yeah, so
Public safety announced, but don't be doing that trying to think when it was the last last similar thing I did
Actually not much is coming to mind kind of hard to top that yeah, I mean I melted my propane barrel heater
Jet things you're supposed to turn the fan on first public service announcement turn the fan on before you turn the heat on
Oops melted all this dickery off of it
I once called a priceless historical artifact on fire. That's not good
Yeah, there's like 12 of these things left in the world and one of those is actually a reproduction
You just got a convince of what happened in the war
But what it was is I used to do a lot of work at the North Carolina maritime museum and we restored a world war to Higgins boat
And I'm in there with the cutting torch, you know
Cutting off some old bolts that were pretty much just streaks of rust and the wood which had had diesel fuel and such like splashing on it for about 60 years
Decided it wanted to go poof and so all of a sudden there is fire
Yeah, I remember you showing us pictures of Higgins boat. I don't remember you telling us you said it on fire
Yeah, I kind of glossed over that part didn't I?
Well, that's okay. You wanted to replace all that wood with new anyway, didn't you?
Uh that particular section guy replaced with new words. Yes. I had I had to look better. That's a landing craft
I'm looking at indeed
It's amazing some of those innovative designs they came up
For that type of hardware and some of them, you know
What you know heavily considered and then not used and others, you know
Maybe uh, maybe not used the full potential and all that stuff, but it's just you know definitely
You know a time when necessity was mother of invention and they just came up with all kinds of wild ideas
But the Higgins but to me his in some ways pretty dag on the elegant design just of course having
A very close experience of the one kind of helps with that now when you're started that we able to make it see worthy again
Oh, that wasn't the goal. I mean we could have but considering the
You know the nature of the boat we didn't I mean actually oh like let me rephrase technically we did
Make it see worthy, but it's not going back in the water again if that makes sense
Oh, it does because it's you know, it's just gonna start rusting again. Well, it's mostly wood, but yeah
I think the
Scenes are all between the boards are all cocked properly
Everything is sealed up so you could drop it in the water and it would float now. Did you get the power plant running again?
Or is it just there for show um actually? I believe the engine is in working condition
so when we got it
We got it without an engine so we had to find a the correct engine for it and
We found one and I'd like to say I believe it's in working condition, but it's not the original engine
now the interesting thing is is that it actually has two
Two rudders the main rudder behind the prop and then a small rudder forward of the props that when you're backing off this beach
You have a rudder in the prop wash and they have better steering
Well, that makes sense because they want you know, they they used them
Multiple times going back and forth and you know, they would they they
Probably figured that out the first time they tried to back away from the beach
They didn't have a whole lot of steering ups. We need to do something because we're gonna need some maneuverability if people shooting at us
One of the cool things about working on that project was we had
Water or two veterans coming out of the woodwork to you know come look at it
Yeah, guys that it actually driven them in water or two and probably poor guys had to ride and it said
You know, I'd damn near ground in one of these things. Yeah, we had to quite a few of them too
But if you're ever up in the Chicago area
It's now up there. You can go visit it at the first division museum in Catini, Elton, Illinois
Okay, I'll keep that in mind
Next one of these days when I go up to Chicago, I'm gonna go up there and just to go see it
Gold salt I'm a new salt, but I pre-commissioned a destroyer. So I kind of appreciate that type of stuff
Well, I think is you know, I've seen some stuff that was interesting uh a
I guess around in San Diego again one one of these people that do the
uh
The Disney stuff, but they also do abandoned interesting places or whatever and this isn't abandoned, but it's no longer used
It's essentially
You know a training vessel on dry land, you know about the size of a frigate
uh, that you know that's essentially a building built in a shape of a frigate on dry land as a training vessel
And you know actually commissioned as a ship in the Navy
uh, you know and had peat, you know that assigned people
trainees to it for a number of months and then I kind of followed that and apparently
You know before World War One there was a
wooden battleship built in like the middle of New York City
Uh again the same thing peat, you know people assigned to it as if it was a regular ship
But this thing, you know, it was huge
Made out made out of wood, but you know this
Completely the size of contemporary battleship. You know speaking of battleships
I got to eat an officer's mess of the battleship North Carolina once
All I had to be interesting uh probably all real silver and everything
Well, not really actually I
By World War II they weren't they weren't doing
Real silver and all that sort of thing for the officers mess anymore. I mean it was basically like a very well protected school cafeteria
I know I've been to Fort Riley. I've seen there, you know
Said a silver and stuff. They don't you know that it's all packed away, but it's on display
You know, and of course that that stuff probably dates back way before the turn of the century
Yeah, the North Carolina was built in the closing days of the closing years of depression
You know, money was a bit tight. Well, I mean the pre
Pearl Harbor battleships were completely different design
Well, I'm not telling you anything. You don't know then the post you know the post-World War
You know where cruiser hold they were essentially, you know, oversized cruisers more than they were battleships
But they could go faster, but the you know the pre war ones were essentially
Big-ass bars that was intended to just you know, not so much. I think to
Bomb bombard ships, but knit the park out there, you know
But to soften up your landing before you invaded that sort of a combination of the two
After World War II, you know, they realized that aircraft to beat battleship any day
So they didn't really need battleships anymore
Right until the 80s when we brought them back out of mothballs and everybody felt great about it until we blew one up
So that was a PR thing they weren't really
Necessary. I mean as cool as it was it was really just they just weren't necessary by that point
Well, it's cool to say you can throw shell 15 miles, but when you can fire a missile 150
You know, it's it's no contest
Actually a Missouri class battleship can hit a target 40 miles away
Wow, that's um that's impressive with the vaults wagon
But they use all kinds of fancy, you know by the time the Missouri class, which is the class that came after the note the
I think it was I guess North Kelow's was comes in class unbrained fighting at the moment, but anyway
The last class of battleships built have all kinds of fancy gizmos like radar guided, you know
And just they were radar the firing was radar guided and so they could actually track the shell's radar
So yeah, sure their first shell might be a little lost target
But you know their second show it'd be right on well like you said
It's it's impressive, but in a shooting war with somebody
willing to use nukes surface navy isn't gonna last you very long
Um, I once saw somewhere that an estimate that in a full blow in shooting war with the Russians
A carrier battle group is expected to last something like 24 hours
Well, I guess they figure maybe that's long enough, but uh, well you you can see with this new ship design
This one. It's all run by Linux and stuff. There's no
really external play. I mean, that's the main thing is that the
You know in case of nuclear war they would you know, they'd try to button up as much as possible and really
There's there's no external place to go stand. There's no deck on these new ships
Well part of that is the going to the self-factor, but the thing about it is that thing is longer than
um
Many World War one era battleships like I think it was something like 620 feet long and
There were a bunch of World War one era battleships that were just 580 feet long
So I mean, it's
They're calling it a destroyer. It's definitely more of a cruiser
Yeah, that size you would think and the firepower that it has
Definitely if that hole you're not you're not going to have the uh
weaknesses that we were talking about with uh, you know, World War one, World War two battleships
You know, I don't you know if you if you did a parabolic arc with a shell or with a with a missile
I don't think it would make much difference whether it was coming straight down or hitting it from the side
Well, yeah, it's got no armor whatsoever. You hit it with a missile or
If a battleship were to get within shooting range of it, it would be toast. Oh, I didn't realize it wasn't armored
Yeah, they don't really armor ships anymore. They're I mean they're basically floating tin cans
Oh, I guess they expect to make it up for speed with speed and maneuverability and the
Naval aviation to protect them and point defense systems now they do have protection for
Underwater attacks because you know, it's someone easier for a torpedo to get in the missile
But anyway gentlemen, I believe it is time for me to hit the hey it's been a pleasure
I agree it's time. Oh, yeah, thanks
Happy new year. Thanks for hanging out with me till the end of the show
No, didn't get to see who I
No problem. I'm looking forward to next year
Well, I record offer. I'll run it. I'll run the recording that long
But I would be amazed if anybody else shows up at this point. Yeah
I'll wait about 45 minutes or two an hour until you get to sleep and I'll play the flute for you or something
Well, I thank you. You are quite welcome. Oh good night 50
Good night handsome pirate
Well, folks, I'm pretty much I'm gonna keep recording but
As you've just heard, I'm pretty much calling it for
Uh, the 2015 2016 hacker public radio need new year's show. I think it was very successful
It was turned out to be
a more intimate
podcast than then
We've done previously and
But for the most part we didn't have after a slow start
We didn't have that much dead air during the day. So I'm really hoping
You've enjoyed what we've done here and you're all you're all invited back to
Uh, this bat time and this bat channel in 2016
Thank you, and I'm out. Yes, I did say this bat channel. It's Friday morning
1017 Zulu happy new year from the Netherlands
Hands on fire nose. I haven't fallen asleep yet. Uh-huh
Go to sleep. Go to sleep. Go to sleep
5150. Oh, it's you can. Yes indeed. Good morning
Well, I was wondering if you were going to show up for us or not
Well, I think everything's gone
very successfully if
We've had a more intimate show than we've had in previous years. Yeah, fair enough still home
I just go
Leave it record till I go get up in the morning. I guess. Yeah, I'll
I'll be here more or less partnering with all days with anyone pops in. I'll have a chat
Yeah, all that sound sounds great to me. All right. Have a good one talk to you later. All right. See you
Have an hour left of 2015 on Baker's Island
It appears everyone has gone to sleep. Is there anybody out there? I'm here
Good morning. Good midday
Indeed, indeed. Where are you? I'm in Sweden. Where in Sweden? Up north. I just moved there 750 kilometers
So we just kilometers are real kilometers. That is real kilometers. So seven and a half miles of pervacal
Yeah, so name of the place. Ernst Welles week. Glory to God. How do you spell that?
R and S K
I L D S V
I K. I'll post it in chat super. That's pretty far up. So you have snow I'm guessing
Yeah a bit just a few centimeters and mountains
Oh, yes, much more. I'm used to the plains of south Sweden
You excellent. So what chat were you on the show before? Yeah, I was joining you at around
Yeah, what was I think 22-12 or something my time and then I had to quit
Okay, the whole good family stuff on so I can get back in put them here now
Where did everyone else go though?
There you the uh went better. Thank you. Yeah, I was watching the world map and the
Transitions from 2015 to 2016 and I just noticed it's been quite a while since that happened for them
It was only hot another 20 minutes left and then everybody's in or it's 2016 for everybody basically
So what's your plans for the year aside from doing a HPR show obviously?
Well, I don't know really. I just got a new job
So I'm trying to figure out what it's about. What's your job called? Well, I'm a web developer
Now without I used to make camshafts for a bottle
But uh, I just got I got an offer to move and start a new job as a programmer. So I did
Cam shops for Volvo to web development. Okay, that's a jump. Yeah quite a bit. It's been done before though
What type of web development have you
experienced a web development or is this like
You're learning HTML now. I've been doing well different kinds of web development for at least uh, I think it's 15 years or so
Started out last summer with JavaScript and now I'm onto Drupal
Ah very good. I hate JavaScript really really really do not pick not because of JavaScript
But it's the way people take any of the current technologies and just ruin it. Yeah
Like the site requires flash or uh, or every single page that you go to
Everything you type in it does sends a search back
typing in something and it's very slow because the insist on refreshing the page for every keyboard input
That's a jack a jacks. Yeah, that too. It's got to be everywhere. It's the fashion. Yep. You don't do it right
Yeah, what I like about Drupal is that almost everything works even without JavaScript. Yeah, so should it be
I'm actually primary JavaScript developer though started PHP when I began working with Drupal
Well, just a bit before when down the path of trying to build mount cms and the realized uh, I should probably not do that
Yeah, somebody should tell us that
Oh
already we've been thinking Dave and I have been chatting about this
I think it was on the list is all about moving everything to gate um, just as markdowner
um, let's HTML pages on gays itself and then just uh, that would allow anybody to edit them
That's pretty good actually good for collaboration. Yeah, it means we don't need to do the uh
uh, permissions and all that stuff so go to an honest host.com
uh, as a git lab.nonsense.com and then uh, most well some of the pages have been moved out
but still keep the PHP stuff in until I get a lot of it fixed
while localize to a certain piece of a bit
localize to a few certain pages first and then
work from there. Yeah, there is something of a transition for an old site where they had
static h jamel pages and they needed to collaborate. They, those guys don't know anything about
git or any such thing but they need a day cms so well I suggest a droople and they hooked it.
Good for you? Yeah, I uh, my own sites on WordPress so I'm in trying to agree
don't reinvent the wheel as such. Yeah, especially if there are newbies.
Whenever you have something that others should manage without
you wanting to manage it, make sure it's a cms.
Well, you'll have to manage the cms but they can manage the content.
Exactly. Now the question is should I start scanning now or should I do Dave Morris's uh,
installer Raspberry Pi up to the scanner and scan from that? Do the thing or spend hours
doing something to do the thing? That is the question. Scanning? Yes, scanning.
It's a thing apparently. I don't know anything about it.
Well, here's the thing we have children and the children come home from school with artwork
and the artwork went into boxes because they didn't like throw on stuff away so now all the boxes
need to be scanned and they scan it and then we can get rid of the artwork. It's actually quite
nice because I've scanned quite a lot of stuff for all their pictures and paintings from when they
were in kindergarten and up and you know put it on the digital folder frame so they have that in
their rooms instead of boxes of art that they never actually look at and then the special stuff they
have they can take it out and put it into a book. Scrap book. Thank you, wife. Wow, that's great.
I wish I had done anything like that when I started school if they had it. Yes, my father
fixed all that for me by taking everything that I had produced and burning it including but not
limited to my five years of university study. No! Yep, burned all my notes. Burnt all my rare science
fiction books that I had collected over years. All of them burned. All my novels, all my books,
all of them and I was only an hour and a half away if you had rang me I would have come and
collected them. That's rough. Yeah, it's what it is. It is what it is. I probably have a couple of
boxes with stuff in it. Yeah, it's actually not a bad thing to do if it's not so it's actually quite
soothing after a while. Some of the stuff you can't scan you know you need to take a photo of it and
but fair enough that's as well put it into a folder and then I have a little script that uses
image magic to convert it to 800 by 600 which is what the photo frames have. They can't don't
scale. They can but it's incredibly slow so if you do it with image magic then you can adjust
the horizontal vertical sizing as well on centers and stuff like that for the landscape stuff.
So I keep they you have to do so workflow is a scanner or take a photo of a put it into a location
and then go through that with a good green needs view, green view under caddy to get the orientation
and crop it a little bit and get the orientation right so it's pointing up and then I run I keep
they I keep those originals and then I reduce the size put it on an SD card to get it down to
so like a 400 photos 400 scans down to 17 megabytes. That's not bad. Then you'd actually want to
look at the photos lunch. Now they're they're actually the quality of the photos are a bit you know
they're fine for the seven inch display thing and if they want to look at them then the originals
on the nose so you can get to be that. I think I'll have a look have to look into that I think I
have an old photo frame somewhere. Yeah quite handy I was going to my my eldest has a has a
wrong laptop so she can put the original one on the screen tables if you wish if she wishes.
And now I need to scan Christmas cards. That's one good thing about moving a lot of people don't
know your address you again don't get a lot of junk anymore. Yeah I'm a number of Christmas cards
that God has decreased immensely. I never got a lot anyway actually I don't think I got
any this year only my girlfriend. Has she moved as well? Yeah she's from here already you know it.
Ding it all fits into place now. Yep she always wanted to move back in. Well now I've got
a chance to get a job here and yeah. Cool good stuff. All right so I'm looking at wedding cards
actually that we got for our wedding. Now the thing about the problem here is I need to scan
both sides and join them together. I'm going to script that. How to script that is good.
I think my girlfriend is on her way home because the dogs just went crazy.
Yes it doesn't look good for you your future you've moved up to your girlfriend's place you've
got dogs very very soon. Well I like it up here too. It's a bit isolated compared to it down there
but it's fun. Do you have fast internet speed that is all that's important? It's decent it's about
I think 13 15 out of it so far. What's that over DSL or cable? It is ADSL.
One and a half out I think. Could be worse could be a lot worse. Yep my well almost in-laws
have 100 megabits up and down and they live like one and a half hour away from here on the other
side of town. I wouldn't know where. Yeah we live too close to town to get fiber. It's always like that
they prioritize the countryside. Why is that? I don't know. Probably because they don't have
ADSL won't get out that far. Yeah ADSL they had it and then they went to mobile because the ADSL line
all the phone lines were so crap. Yeah exactly. And then they got fiber when they they
I think they built like a windmill park or going to build the windmill park so I think that's why they
put fiber mains just by nearby and connected them to. Excellent very very good. Hang on I got
unlocked the door for no problem no problem I'm going to be scanning the warning gentleman.
Goodbye to 2015. I was wondering if anybody's still alive. Yeah I'm here I think can find
ones here too. Yeah just get back. Happy new years. Thank you thank you and send yourself.
Thank you. Thank you gentlemen. I got off around 2 to 30 just wondering if 150 was still alive.
I sent them to bed an hour ago. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Well happy new year. I'll see y'all next year.
You going to bed? Where are you? What are you calling him from? I'm calling from Robbins Air Force Base.
One Robbins Georgia. Oh look. Laced air I guess or early. It's early. It's 7-0-1
Eastern Standard Time. I was on yesterday by hand and out until about 2.30 a.m. this morning by
time. Okay cool look forward to hearing it. Well I'll see y'all later. It was good talking to
everybody. Goodbye. Goodbye. See you later. Well that's it. It's 12.03 UTC head of Happy New Year's show
officially. I'll stay on listening. Hey my first show. Do you have your own podcast?
No. Your voice is familiar. Really? Yep. I do not have a radio. We always need shows.
Maybe if I get a great idea. I'll make a show of it. Yeah life up in Sweden. The adventures of
droopla. Sorry? Working with droopla. Ah yeah maybe. There's a Swedish droop of podcasts
here which is quite popular. Maybe I'll do it in there. It's actually one of the guys at work
who makes it. Absolutely do that for sure. Do it in English. Yeah they do that sometimes.
It's mostly in Sweden so though. How's my microphone by the way? Yeah sounds perfect to me but
I have very low standards. Oh it's a cheap headset. Yeah works fine. I just got the weirdest
steam badge. From the game steam or from some industrial punk steam? It's yeah the steam platform
game platform. It's the red herring steam badge holiday sale 2015. Okay pretty good.
Posted a reddit link in the chat about it. I wonder how the first person figured that out.
No I don't play games. Lost significant portion of my life to Lemmings sometime ago.
Oh that's great. I used to play it on the meager. Yeah I thought I found a version
Linux clone and then I thought no stop now. Stop while you're ahead. Go to the meetings.
Meetings can wait. Lemmings they die. Well sometimes they need to die to let you help them but
Exactly. Exactly. I've actually been playing more games now that steam supports Linux.
I thought you were going to say I've started playing more games now that I moved to the middle of
the door. That might be true too. I don't know yet. It's been only a bit I think two with three weeks
well two weeks. Yeah. One of the first things I set up here was the Xbox. I haven't played
anything much though just a little bit of Halo but that's only because I just bought Halo 5.
Back in a second. Happy New Year. Where was Wake? Happy New Year. Today is the day where you get
all the emails about birthday greetings from places you have not used to build birthday
on. Sorry. What was that? I walked away a second. I just say today is today you get lots of emails
from places wishing you a birthday when you did not use your real birthday. Just used to need
your sacrifice. Sorry. Is it getting a lot of birthday messages then? Oh yeah. I've actually gotten
less now since I started to put in my real birthday to just deactivate emails but at one point I
got like spammed. I think you stepped out for a bit. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year. Yeah it's been great. Well not really. I left and then I got back just an hour ago
or so. I was going to stay on but I got tired and much stuff to do. Could you raise your microphone a
bit? I can barely hear you. Oh okay that explains. That's a recording and thank you too. It's been great
to be on. Today you came back. So I did. I'm not going to hang very long. I'm going to go back
to bed. It's late over there or early maybe. Well it's early enough when I was up to about three.
So did anyone stick around for the full episode? Well I don't know. I'd only originally planned to
stick around until about an hour after New Year's Eve on the West Coast which we did easily but
now after that everybody sort of drifted off. Yeah when I got back on nobody was here.
I have a can of sort of listening. I talked to him a little bit later in the evening but
no I'm still not caught up on my sleep. I'm going back to bed. Yeah Kim was the first one to
talk to me. He just left. I don't know what he was going to do but he was talking about scanning
his kids photos and artworks so maybe that's what he's doing. Yeah he's got a lot of family
stuff to do this weekend. Well thanks for coming back in but I'm going to go back to sleep.
You do that sounds like a great plan. It's a bit late for me to do that and my girlfriend's parents
are coming over so she probably did not do that. Yeah that would probably give them the wrong
impression. They come over and you're still passed out asleep the day after New Year's.
Well they already got no decent depression off me so I don't think they would hurt that much.
All right well we'll catch you maybe in another year. Well maybe I'll jump on some show
or something this year. That'd be good. I'd like to see you there. Yeah I've been listening to a lot
of your shows actually. Oh good thank you. So are you planning to keep them going this year?
The shows I mean. Well I don't think Link's blood cast will be any problem. KPO will see.
Todd's told me he'd be back on the next episode of KPO. He just had some personal stuff.
He had to attend to well he was sick I guess last week so you know and I record a show by myself
so it'll get out sometime this weekend so you know if I if at least half the time somebody shows
up for KPO we'll try to keep it going. Yeah I've got a backlog. I've been having stuff to do this
December so I haven't had much time to listen to podcasts moving in all. What was the last episode
you put out? Oh well two weeks ago from last week we had an episode you know we do KPO every two
weeks so there was one I guess now it'd be three weeks ago. He wasn't number 125 the one in the
can it'll be 126 and really a lot of the guys on the show well I know a lot but you know there are two
or three guys on the show tonight who are who are alumni of KPO so I was trying to do a little bit
of arm twisting to see get them back on sometime. Yeah I don't think I've listened to the last couple
of episodes and yeah I got them in my queue. Okay great good to hear the last one was pretty good
the one before that was kind of a strange one we had a guest and that was about all we had or no
no that was that was the one before that we did one on Halloween you know we did the one three
weeks ago. I started on Halloween Rapper one but I haven't finished it yet. Yeah I said the one
before that you know it's it was pretty much stuff that if you've been listening to any podcast
for the past you know all fall it was it was pretty more the same it's just I'd you know I'd
invited Chris on that show and that's when he that's when he eventually showed up so we went
ahead we went ahead and did it but it wasn't much different than stuff everybody had heard three
or four times by that time. Yeah there was quite a lot of that on every podcast I listened to.
No fortunately that seems to work out okay you know the FCC really I think they were surprised
about the response from the open source community and just you know it looks like they rolled back
any any intention even messing with routers and much much less general general purpose computing
at least for now. Yeah it sounds great I don't like the idea of them locking everything down just
because of that issue. I mean yeah I understand why they why they need need to try to do it but
you know they you know a bunch of suits they see stuff as black and white you know most of us are
not going to do shenanigans with the router that are going to gonna cause them problems you know
they're like well if anybody can you know if you one person can we gotta lock them out well
they kind of they kind of learned well there's you know you got you got a way the cost benefit
on both sides. Yeah I think it's a bit like the witch hunt on encryption everything's gotta be
unencrypted because well there's an issue with this all of that but they don't consider the big picture.
Right now in fact they weren't expecting the big pushback from that you know you know you still have
all the if you don't have anything if you don't have anything to hide you don't have to worry
people out there which is just a scary scary attitude. Well if the government does not have anything
to hide a could we unencrypt everything too. Right we had that discussion earlier this evening that
you know the you know the regular people they're not going to move towards encrypting themselves
but you know you you you have various entities talking about you know putting in just by default
putting in place in the encryption so we'll have to see how that goes. I've been looking into it
but I actually just tried out let's encrypt for like five domains just yesterday it was great
simple enough and it's I think it's a good way to go because it's not just about encryption it's
about variability. Right and you know I'd like to do a VPN VPN on my home network so that'll
definitely be part of it when I set it up. Well if I don't go back to bed now I want to go off
and I won't get any sleep so I'll I'll catch you around 2D. Yeah that question. Bye. Bye.
You've been listening to Hacker Public Radio at HackerPublicRadio.org. We are a community podcast
network that releases shows every weekday Monday through Friday. Today's show like all our shows
was contributed by an HBR listener like yourself. If you ever thought of recording a podcast
then click on our contributing to find out how easy it really is. Hacker Public Radio was founded
by the digital dog pound and the infonomicon computer club and it's part of the binary revolution
at binrev.com. If you have comments on today's show please email the host directly leave a comment
on the website or record a follow-up episode yourself unless otherwise status today's show is
released on the creative comments, attribution, share a like, 3.0 license.
