Episode: 4199
Title: HPR4199:  HPR New Years Eve Show 2023 - 24 ep 7
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4199/hpr4199.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 21:22:12

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This is Hacker Public Radio episode 4199 for Thursday the 5th of September 2024.
Today's show is entitled H.P. or New Year's Eve Show 2023-24 at 7.
It is hosted by Hum Kimagoo and is about 120 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag. The summary is, the H.P. our community comes together to converse.
That's one of the things where I love about open source. Basically, you know, when you come to the table,
there are so many people who've donated to the pool of knowledge and you're free to come in and absorb as much as you can handle.
And then when you've developed whatever it is, you can give back and is always room for more.
Like, like, nobody goes, hey, you just came here yesterday. You don't have the right to input into the pool of knowledge.
No, it's like we're welcoming you to whatever you've learned, bring it to the table.
We all want it. We all need it. Somebody's going to be able to benefit from it. Just bring it to the table.
Yeah, so several of us on the Linux logcast are trying to do.
Work orchestration of virtual stuff, you know, Docker and pod man and things like using Kubernetes or some other way to orchestrate deployment and repeatability of things.
And we're trying to work together and share our knowledge and build a build and document a repeatable process that other people can learn where I bought a VPS space.
I paid for three years of a VPS with a good amount of storage and memory and processing.
So we can start doing, you know, different things like a Jitsie server, a mumble server, a photograph servers.
So instead of using Google photos, we can have a group place where we can upload photos.
One of the things they've been doing is using a creating AI generated images of Linux stuff.
Linux has been doing his cat buster and those were great.
The buster images were awesome.
Yeah, we're trying to we're trying to choose an open source photograph or gallery app that we can self host and then anything we're doing like that.
We're going to document and make instructions that somebody else could follow and repeat it.
And then they have problems. They can come back to us and we'll update the instructions to answer any questions that weren't questions for us.
How the pod man thing come along? Did you guys get any reward pod man?
I've gotten some stuff that way.
I've gotten some stuff to work in pod man with newer versions of the kernel.
When you install cockpit, you can add the pod man manager plugin and you can deploy.
This is quickly deployed Docker and pod man images quickly, but that's not where I want to be in it.
I want to be where I can orchestrate redeploying it somewhere else and have the exact same thing on another server at a push of a button.
I'm a command line kind of guy. I don't mind having gooey faces and like cockpit and things of that nature.
I think it's fine to have it, but when you want to understand the technology, I mean, there's nothing better than rolling up the sleeves and hopping in the command line.
Yeah, so so I've been doing everything.
I brought in what I was working on and I said, here's what I'm doing.
Here's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to orchestrate all this and have everything linked back to Git and playbooks and be able to pool saved stuff from a location and redeploy somewhere else and use subdomains for my reality and all that instead of the ports.
And we walked through everything I was doing and it individual steps everything I'm doing should be working.
But then it doesn't the whole picture. It's not working.
So there's glitches somewhere and I'm not understanding and everybody I've talked to.
Those are the pieces that they have a tool at their company that does that for them. They don't understand that piece.
But manually checking it, it should be working like drill down into the container and you know, pings and trace routes and making sure things are working.
Everything's working where it should be working deep down inside, but at a higher level where it shouldn't be the problem, it's not working.
So I'm still stuck with all the docker and podman stuff.
Yeah, I'm looking as if podman is working the docker desktop stuff that I tried to use before.
And again, I don't know what happened with that crap, but it wrecked pretty hardcore. I had to reinstall because I didn't know how to fix it.
And I just got tired. I got so frustrated with it. It's like, look, just wipe clean, come back, use podman.
And since then, I've only gotten like the basic tutorial stuff that they show you in the podman docs.
But nothing serious. Like I've never built my own container, anything like that yet.
Well, aside from the tutorial stuff, you know, launching into like some things from the tutorial from the tutorial.
Yeah, so that's that's what netminor wants to learn beginning to end as the podman flow.
And so as a group on the Linux legcast where we're trying different things and hopefully will in the new year will be coordinating and documenting everything.
We're working on. I'm setting up a SSH access for for people who want to sign in and do things.
And then later I'll pull back access because the whole point with podman and stuff is to be able to do it.
The rootless container deployment, though individuals can have access to do thing.
And there was a free, I think you to me class that somebody posted a free coupon for that's supposed to explain everything at every step of the process using Docker podman, other types of containers and then moving through the whole stack to practice stuff in Azure Google Cloud.
AWS and all that and then orchestrate it with.
I forget what the doctor compose and Kubernetes and K3S, which I think is the lightweight Kubernetes and the different orchestration tools, but it's supposed to explain the whole stack.
And it's one big Udemy class and somebody had posted a link to sign up to it for free.
I'm just never really have a full depth of it.
So I don't want to get too deep in clusters and things of that nature only to find out that because I have no way of keeping the knowledge going, working on any.
I don't have any clusters to manage that kind of thing.
Well, with Docker and Docker swarms, you can, my understanding is you can have an old pie and use, I think there's an image specifically geared towards doing Docker swarms on on the pie where you can practice and do something where it's, you know, one to 10 nodes that spin up to 20 to 50 nodes on a pie using very little resources to do something simple to stay in practice.
Or to actually do something that's productive with that knowledge, but something I have not done is how's interesting.
I definitely want to make sure that I learn more about containers because the next step once, once I'm able to get like a very comfortable knowledge of containers where I could actually roll my own.
Then my next step from there is I want to learn a lot more about like app armor and, you know, things like that too of securing your system building the.
What do you call it? The those profiles for like app armor.
I haven't used them before.
That is like security is very interesting and I like like diving into it and part of security.
Well, aside from security containers are just interesting all together.
Some of the stuff that I read about being able to do with containers, like being able to have different programming environments within the container.
You don't have the money up your system with multiple different like say with Python.
You don't have to have all these different versions of Python on your system.
You could have them within containers so you can have your project, whatever you're working on in the different versions of Python within the different containers and not actually break the one you want to deploy.
So you can have a Python three environment that you deploy something in Python two seven that then deploy something in like three 11 or whatever the current one is and you can have everything functioning in its in its flow.
Yeah, that's super interesting now. Obviously I'm going to I'm going to do whatever it was not intended to do with it.
So I'm going to, you know, experiment to the max to figure out where the where the margins are.
And then once I find a margins, probably get bored with it and never touch it again, but yeah, that's me.
I seem to be able to unintentionally find the margins at the very beginning.
You said you find the margins at the very beginning.
The time if something's not going to work, I find the outline scenario at the very beginning.
All the way back when I bought my first video card upgrade, I bought a video card that did not it was an Nvidia was the Banshee card before they use.
They use some chip in it and then had switched it to something else and like really quickly back in the mid 90s.
Because there were issues with it and it caused a problem with my the video card, the mouse and the modem conflicted that specific combination and it was a weird issue.
And my mouse would change dimension of the XY coordinate where it was displayed on the screen would skip to another location and then I couldn't figure out where.
So I used to know how to do everything from the command line in a gooey, both in Linux and in windows back in the day.
But that's just one of several examples of like I could just find everything that when I was doing precision GIS and GPS programming building an app in 2005.
I found the I was using a library inside a standard Java that worked locally running it live inside the IDE, but then would not deploy and work because there was a security bug in the.
Dot whatever release of Java one for whatever was out in 0 5 Java one for early one six, but it was like a specific point release that I had upgraded my system and it caused Java not to work the job application not to work anywhere, but locally on my machine.
It took until I got fixed and job in sons Java, but it took it took a while and I had to switch the RT XT library to use IBM's version and not sons version.
Yeah, every time I hear the word Java, it makes my stomach hurt, especially on Linux.
I mean, it is.
It's a wonderful platform to run other languages.
I got hired after saying that in an interview once I was asked what I thought of Java a wonderful platform to run other languages.
I guess my first introduction to Python was it is I don't know where it's at now, but when I was using it, they described it as a magical programming language and it was it was magical.
It was amazing.
What Python?
Groovy.
Groovy language is coming from.
Groovy and then Groovy on grails is a it's Python.
It's not Python, it's Ruby, Ruby that you can code in compile it in Java.
It compiles down to the same byte code that the corresponding Java code would compile down to.
But it's much simpler to write because you know, you can write print world in Ruby.
Whereas in Java, you have like 12 lines of code to print hello world.
You can just build a web and a couple hours, like something that would take months.
Well, actually, I built in two weeks a multi user web application that interfaced with multiple wisdoms, you know, so requests that would pull back information.
You could modify it and push it back out, used LinkedIn with the active directory and LDAP authentication, all this kind of stuff in two weeks.
And one week to that was figuring out how how to get one whole week was trying to figure out why it wasn't working and it was a firewall issue.
So one week I built this whole application and they decided that they were going to go with some IBM tool to build it out in Java.
And they were still working on it a year later when I left.
The whole team of people couldn't do what Groovy and grails did in one week that I did in Groovy and grails on one week with a starting point of zero knowledge on Groovy.
So is this Groovy, is this a maintained language or is this something that sort of fell off the map?
I don't know, that would have been about 2011 maybe when I was doing that.
I'm not sure where it's at now.
Because I think that's why a lot of companies stick with sort of like what we would call mainstream language, a Java or a C that kind of thing versus the niche languages.
Was that one that elementary ended up writing everything in the distro elementary was a Valar or something like that?
I don't remember.
Yeah, I often wonder like I get it.
You can use a language like C to make another language and that second language that you made can be tailored to doing a specific thing.
I understand that much of it.
But when you go to deploy off of the second language, is there enough team behind it to keep it maintained?
Because apparently everybody knows C and is willing to work with C but the language is built from C or they're going to have the same legs.
Rails looks like it's still up and running and is under the Apache 2 license being used by Nestle, Netflix, Sony, Target, Walmart.
There's slew of companies from grails.org and it's built on the Java spring framework spring boot.
So what is all my is that a web app technology?
Yeah, so Java web UI building Java web apps would be what it's used for.
Problem with picking a Java web app framework to do a Java web app is that it takes you a year of building and developing it to figure out if you chose the right one.
It reminds me of either I was listening to an older show or a show that just came out.
Somebody I think just did a show in the fourth programming language.
It's either a newer and old show. I can't remember. It might be a new show that just came out on the HBR and they were talking about the fourth programming language out there.
And I was thinking, why? You know, I mean, don't get me wrong. If you're just learning about cool stuff and someone made this language and it has a purpose, right?
Like a specific thing that it's designed to do very well. I get it.
But if you're looking to deploy it outside of that thing that it's designed to do very well, why?
Wait a minute. Was it for somebody else? I don't know how many shows I've been listening to recently. It's been a little bit everything.
I thought it was a show on a V as well from that mistake. And always that one ahead and dropped it. I might have been listening to the future feed as well.
I'm trying to go back and figure out where I heard these shows. Then my brain is pretty scrambled. It's 4 a.m.
I'm 12 hours in your future for 4 p.m.
Or your 12 hours ahead. Well, I'm going to be useless later on the day anyways. I'm going to get up and I can already hear it.
My daughter is going to be screeching and jumping off the damn wall and I'm just not even going to be able to cope.
And I'm behind on my HBR listening. I think I'm at 2014, April of 2014.
I can't listen to all the shows in an order like that. My brain just doesn't let me get away with it.
I got to pick a few different topics that I want to listen to and then kind of arrange them to where I can get to in a certain time.
And it's weird how I have to do that because if I'm out on the road, then I cannot listen to anything that involves scripting or writing programming, anything like that.
Because I'm going to want to try it and I don't have a laptop or a computer with me.
So it's going to make me super frustrated because I'm going to be struggling trying to remember that thing that I really want to try.
And the moment I walk through the door, when I get home, I'm going to forget about it.
So I have to pick shows that don't include that.
I do put stuff to this. I think I have 205 gigs queued up and tons more to download from so many podcasts.
I definitely got overwhelmed with the volume of podcasts I was listening to.
And I can't migrate them to a new phone because they either don't come with an SD card or the version of Android doesn't allow you to the apps to write to the Android periodically changes the security.
So the apps can't write to the SD card until the developers update their security, which is supposed to protect cross-access applications accessing each other's data.
And I was just talking to Archer about this the other day.
He sent me a link for an MP3 player device, one that's not Android or not iOS or whatever.
I'm sick of this so-called smart devices.
I want to load some flags onto a device, hit play and then their sound.
None of the apps and nonsense where they don't actually store on a file system.
You have to deal with data being cached in apps and granting permission between them only to just get denied at the end of the day.
It's so frustrating.
Just an app with storage, a device that plays and accesses stored files.
Exactly.
And I want to plug it into my Linux box, either by type, seeing micro USB, whatever I want to plug it in or if I don't plug it in directly.
Let me just take an SD card out of it, loaded up on my Linux box, stick it back into the device and go on about my day. I'm perfectly fine.
I seriously think the only solution is for a handful of us to get together, design it, spec it out and have it manufactured in China.
Do a Kickstarter, don't do a Kickstarter or go fund me until we have everything fully produced and tested and let people swarm to it because it's beginning to end, do the whole thing and then sell it.
Because we know there's at least 100,000 people that want exactly that, right?
Well, yeah, yeah.
And they want something that's not a 16 or 32 gig storage. They want something that's, you know, I mean something you could open up and put an NVE in or something.
Oh, that would be awesome. You could change the storage.
And how would that be? It wouldn't be.
The complaint would be, oh, it's not waterproof now.
Well, but that's the thing. You have to market it for the right group of people.
It's not waterproof people. Those are the people that you just look, you understand you're never going to get them on board.
They're buying the iPhone, you know, whatever the pinnacle was of the iPods, you know, what did they store 512 gigs?
Oh, yeah, that was like the first and iPods.
And I know like the fourth or fifth with the, but they played videos and everything, you know, they had half a gig of storage.
Yeah.
Half a gig is a lot.
That'd be an NVE that you could pull that you could swap out. I think what third eight terabytes now on NVE or they hire now.
Well, they do have well, no, I think eight terabytes is I think the highest I saw was like some kiosk eight terabyte ones and a crazy high price, but yeah.
Yeah. And I mean, you could keep in it were, you know, current Linux kernel compatible, even if you didn't throw Linux on it.
Good, which I would probably go with a straight Linux and maybe one of the existing players or, or just a command line playing with the simple menu.
I would, I would go for the most basic and simple part of the reason why I'd be afraid to go with Linux on a main line device.
Something something that you plan to sell to everyone is link even Linux has its opinionated crowd where they're going to get bogged down in the weeds rather than understanding what the device is meant to be the purpose.
It's meant to serve is going to be an MP3 player.
It is going to play MP3s and allow you to just manage your MP3s on the device.
That's it. We're not talking about what your favorite desktop environment is and whether or not you like to this init system and all those other crap that we get so bogged down and only all the opinions.
And that's where the device will ultimately run into some issues as far as getting people to assist and keeping it going like creating more and more.
I wouldn't say features but maintaining what features it does have because you you'd want to keep it limited like early on spell out what features this device needs to have and no more.
So no feature creep, no bunch of unnecessary nonsense.
You're meant to play the podcast or the audio book or song or whatever and you know, pause it fast forward and rewind it.
That's about it and not much more than that.
I can only imagine the the pull requests or feature requests for I wanted to connect to my cloud.
And I think that would be a difficult thing as well and not being a developer.
I don't fully understand what that would be like to you know when you have an open source project and you tell people you're welcome to community input or whatever.
But then people start trying to add a bunch of features and you don't want to like look no I don't you know yes I want you to help if you if you're willing to help sure I'll accept your help.
But look we're not we're not adding in all these unnecessary features right we're not building it out to some monstrosity that's going to be difficult to maintain.
It's now new baseline MP3 Linux.
Of course isn't the the need to express themselves as much as there is in the Linux world.
The BSD guy seemed to just be happy with a system that works.
And and as long as you're putting ZFS on it as long as you're doing that everything's fine.
Yes, that's that's what I started with was BSD Slackware and Windows 3.11 with the 62.
I've never ever used Slackware.
I use the few times and and if you just install it and it's up and running.
I don't understand what purpose is meant to serve.
Slackware or absolute Linux.
Slackware like is that is that like the corporate version or enterprise you know kind of like how rail is in the server world.
It do kind of be more comparable to art where it is a very vanilla Linux.
And then you yourself personalize everything exactly the way you want.
And you keep all your configuration files and your setups for that.
And you know your system beginning to end going through Slackware you understand everything that's going on.
And then when you switch to a new version you can like the or a new machine function properly.
So I was always going back to Red Hat before it was the night before it was a corporate product when I was still community Red Hat.
I used to try all the Debian variants.
There was one called Turbo Linux.
There was a really good corporate Debian.
And then a Storm Linux.
Storm Linux was my favorite and I was so sad to see it go.
But it was a.
It was Debian with the GUI installed.
It was it was amazing way before Ubuntu.
And right before Ubuntu there was a Alpine Linux.
It was Memphis Linux.
And I think Memphis has transformed into MX Linux.
If I'm not mistaken MX Linux still manages 32 bit.
One of the few years.
A lot of them are Sparky or one of them are the only ones that one of the few that are still managing a 32 bit ISO.
One of the things I get confused about with distributions like Arch or was it Slackware that you mentioned?
How you have to understand every single thing about the system to deploy it or whatever.
Or you get deeply involved in the system.
I imagine something like that being great for a server style distribution.
Where you could, where it's very, very stripped down.
And then you build it up for a service.
But for a desktop use.
And I mean like non-development.
If you're a developer and you're building a development workstation.
Again, I understand it for that purpose.
But outside of that.
Seems like you're asking for trouble.
I think a little lag there or something.
Thank you for cutting out.
I've been drifting for it.
Well, I woke up again.
That was some good chat, though.
But yeah, it's storming in it.
That sounds interesting.
Can you tell me more about.
Wow.
Yeah, the distros are the past that no longer exist.
There's lots of them actually.
Absolutely.
Those of them.
And I've never had a storm in the next, though.
Which distribution do you use.
I have used.
Well.
In what context it could be.
What this push did you put in a virtual machine?
Or try out on some.
No, I mean, what are you driving?
Or try that on a live USB or CD or DVD in the past.
Which one did you actually run on the computer properly?
You have physically installed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which one are you driving?
Well, if we go through the live CD,
the sort of thing I've used things like type things like PlayPix
because, you know, is it for us to do a task or.
Do you partied live CD or, you know, things like that?
But if we're talking about actually on the computer.
Did my client crash?
When you're back.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear me.
Oh, okay.
I've done my client live crash.
I don't know.
So, it's one of the reasons I've stored it.
I said one here, the more about the distributors of the past.
But then he said to me, what distributors do I use?
And I've really just looked at that recently.
But I was listening for a bit.
I'm going to chat there.
But yeah, like I said, I mean, there's.
I see these DVDs.
You know, in what context it could be.
It's like PlayPix.
Yeah.
What distribution are you driving?
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
It's probably what you meant, really.
Oh, there's what.
Do you have a battery?
And what did you actually have on the computer for real?
Now, I have to use.
Well, that's up there since 2004.
Open source.
No, and Lee since 2000.
I was like 1617 years old.
Right.
I started.
I started weird.
Well, actually, I had a friend from school who said to me,
I use Slackware, which you were just talking about.
Right?
Slackware, yes.
And he was a very clever guy in the,
all those free guys play around with a few towards.
I'm in the library at lunch break and things like that.
And you think, why?
What, what are they doing?
What are they up to?
And I got to know him and two others to some extent.
And this guy was one of the very clever people,
top groups for everything.
You know, one of those.
He was, he was in fact on the verge of going to Oxford University.
Right?
The best universities in the United Kingdom.
In England.
Well, the Oxford and Cambridge.
Cambridge, yeah.
And he was going to go down and study computer science,
which he did.
Later on, now he does,
and then he banking, programming,
check people's codes, a sort of job in London.
Right?
It's paid quite well.
You know, I think he's still doing the same thing.
But anyway, he said to me,
and I'll somebody else to use it,
and that's what you'll use for him,
as well, girl, your butt.
But this guy, he always said to me,
yes, you should get,
you should get into open sourcing,
like, sick wind,
with other sweets,
that I've seen before.
Plus, well, I've got a window,
and they said,
they were deluxe.
Green shots.
Finally, got a family computer,
a year later or so.
He always said to me,
never, I will not tell you what's this,
this truth,
to go and use.
You have to,
I use that guy,
but you have to basically
pick your own distribution.
And so he told me about this,
which is still going yet.
Great, great website,
this for a watch, yeah.
You know,
it's that, you know,
building this for a watch, yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good,
I'm confused.
And I'm saying some history,
right?
I've got a lot of history,
watch.com, yeah.
Great website about this,
true.
It's still going.
Right.
The thumb,
the thumb back into the computer,
using Linux or BSD.
Yeah.
And I went through here,
at a 1670,
I was thinking,
what, what district am I going to use?
I don't know.
I've only really seen
screenshots of the so-called
Linux at the time, you know.
And,
and somehow I miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
see,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss.
Mrs,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss,
miss.
I've got to one,
oh,
and it's free, it's all free, but I think men like free are then free software and I'm thinking price
or I find that about Richard Stelman and all that stuff a bit later on anyway.
Anyway, I went with that, but I can't get a wireless working, etc. I had to afford to have to be
off-line Windows XP there and it was like, well you just see it on the internet really.
I got half-wise about a year later because I was going to maybe work for someone during the
Microsoft stuff, actually making business decisions didn't happen, but they still got hard-wired.
So, Storacall, Clubgoverong, reinstall, Storacall four, and then I went to, and then someone
else said I went to Cambridge University actually, also from my school, we said, how about a bun two?
And I think with the doors, I installed everything, it took four hours to install, it was full CD,
something like that, took ages. Storacall a bun two 20 minutes to install, basically, one CD.
And it was like, okay, cool. And then I did that for a few years, but then, like you do,
you might get a bit bored, you want to try something else out, and I want to just get more involved
with open source maybe, but somebody said there were more users, not developers, saying, man,
not really a programmer. I encourage HGML or CSS to make a website for once, you know, not a programmer.
I'm not, you know, and...
That's what every programmer says.
I'm not doing JavaScript, or whatever, or even JavaScript is actual programming, HGML and CSS,
they're not there, luck at languages. I thought only your programmer would know that.
Even your programmer would know that. I mean, it's code still, but it's not actually programming,
it's not proper, you know, programming. I've had books about programming, but I've never put
into anything. But anyway, so I went and did a bunch of beautiful few years and so on, and then,
and then I wanted to like change this drill, or see what else was out there. And I remember someone
said to me, like, PCLinuxOS, for example, that's a good, that was a good distro, I think it's still going.
I had a year of that, PCLinuxOS, but also wanted to get a bit more involved with the source somehow,
and not just someone who sat on IFC and helped people around the world here and there,
between like 2008 and 2011, in particular, when IFC used to be a big thing and it used to be like,
for you know, IFC, yeah, with all the support, with all the channels, everything going, and really,
it was really active and it was a great time in that sense. I was a lot more with this French
distro link to Mandrake, which took me to Brussels as well, importantly. But then I,
I always kind of, I always sort of, always sort of, come back to a bug, if it seems. I mean,
there was the foam project and all that, that's a bit separate of that. That was that I was
interested in anyway, but you'd be pork, so weren't you touched off, but weren't you just kind of
work, but it's kind of kind of, they were it, but it's also a bit boring now, really, because it's
feel all messed up there. I think a lot of dust up there, which is a bit boring now, really,
when you use it for long enough, because nothing, nothing that, it's all quite stable now,
it's all quite established. There's nothing really that amazing happening right now. I mean,
I mean, okay, we're getting the nice new version, as usual, coming out as a glume,
4.3, that's up to three, you know, I think KD, there was like KD as the interfaces of your
programs. There's nothing really that groundbreaking where it's like, wow, wow, yeah,
but great one, that's just true. I got to ask you a question. Do you,
do you get in a lot of fights on the internet? Why do you ask me that? I mean,
typically when I see people getting into fights on the internet, they say the kind of things
that you just said, so I have to wonder, do you, do you specialize in getting in fights on the
internet? Well, why was I getting into a fight on internet? I'm just saying that the, what was
one of what I'm saying? I'm saying that this is, and I know that it's very quite established
right now. It's quite stable, it's quite reliable, yeah. It's quite, yeah, it just waltzes into
the room with his mitts in his pocket and, oh, you know, hey, I use Ubuntu and, you know,
it's a great distribution and Linux is quite important, actually.
The thing to Mandrake or whatever I've used about devices with, I had, you know, the year piece
that I've got, I've got some of these mini PCs with, like, I've got some of these pine
things, I've got my Njaro one, certain devices now because of that, I've got, you know,
I'm not, you know, I used to have used certain displays, yeah. What's your favourite
guess after that? I'd say, I'd say, um, Bloom. I mean, I mean, I like, I know, I know that
Unity with Ubuntu got a lot of flak, yeah, like, you know, at the time, or at least
to certain people, oh, we don't, oh, we don't like this because they're doing, they're doing
their own thing and they've put the rest of them underneath and all that, and it all, it doesn't
work on my distra very easily because of how it's made and I've had copyright assignment policy
thing that people didn't agree with, I think, certain people, certain developers, right?
And we have to, if you have to give back your contributions to clinical, although, like,
your name, your code basically, if you contribute to Unity and some people didn't agree with
that, I think, but, um, I remember just me trying to port it to Fadorah and open suits as well,
and then there were some problems, but they were doing, and they still were kind of like
doing something, it was presumed focused, so muted focus, it was a bit different, um, but yes,
they kind of went obviously away from upstream because they got me the same shell doing that,
and it's basically gluing underneath, the rest of it is basically, that's quite the same
you just switched back when they dropped it, I think as well, because all they've got to do is
basically do a few changes and put back the upstream gluing shell and make that the fault in a
bunch of again, but there's a new version, I mean, that's what they did, um, I've used enlightenment,
well, play around with that a little bit, um, I've used, you know, I've used KDE, I've used
fluxplot, I've had things like openpox install, I've had things like fluxplots installed with ads,
um, also, you know, all sorts of things installs, but I've got my 10 installs, I think, yeah,
on this laptop, what do you suppose to do?
A bit of, do you have all the installs on one lap lap?
You're sitting on this, be a ruin.
No, I, not on this one, I did, I did used to do it in the past, where, yes, I would pretty much
throw, throw one, pretty much any D or window manager, think of it, let's install that as well,
why not? I can, I can log in from the, uh, logging screen anywhere for one that, um,
let's not, but no, not on this one.
I've got like GNOME and KDE and, I think, my tail's something, um,
So your system has about 40,000 packages on it?
No, uh, not, no, well, maybe, no, no, no, I don't know, it's not too bad this one,
but I, I mean, I mean, in the past, occasionally, you would get, you would maybe get into a,
um, some, some instability because you installed a load of, uh, you know, desktop environment,
and whatever, yeah, yeah, well, I've met a soul with you, when you're turning your desktop
into a repository, uh, imagine it would be a few conference links.
Yeah, but now, but I think for the last, well, I think for many years now, it works quite well,
actually, like that, or these, well, most of them do, um, I mean, you know, I mean,
GNOME and KDE might mix anyway, because you want to have some of those, you want to have,
sometimes you might even want to have KDE, some of the KDE at programs, but inside of GNOME,
or some of the GNOME programs, or GTK, yeah, and Q, yeah, but in the other one, so you kind
of mix a little bit between the two we might do. Um, will it time to have a few programs from
the, yeah, yeah, yeah, it does bundle in, obviously, dependencies and things when,
when if you do that as well, so you end up with parts of the other environment on your system,
but that's how it is. So what do you do? Since, since you had to get one KDE, uh,
application, you just go ahead and pull down the, the, everything, just go ahead and grab the
desktop environment and everything. No, well, no, well, well, maybe, well, have done that. I
haven't thought, I haven't, you don't have to, no, you don't have to do that. Oh,
and I haven't, I've penned on the machine, or, I mean, you know, if I want to install, um,
let's just do a, it's a matter of what program, let's say, conversation, old ISE client,
for in KDE, for, and it's old, but it's good. And I want to run that in GNOME as an example,
then I know that for a while you don't need to hold KDE, then you just need enough of that
dependencies, whatever, so that it will, so that it will work. Yeah.
Then whatever, and then whatever you have on the system, regardless of D's and programs,
and whatever, really, it's pretty much the same. I mean, if you want to six months upgrade
this trail, we're supposed to upgrade every six months or so. Or even if you want a voting
in either way, you're basically just six months. Well, well, yeah, if it's like a bunch,
then you're not on long-term support, then you're supposed to upgrade every, I think it's nine
months now, actually, you've got to clean the collect down from 18 months, right? I've support,
so they want you to upgrade every nine months, yeah. And there's other districts like that as well,
Fedora as well, you know, you upgrade every year. Yeah, and then obviously there's rolling
releases as well, like pieces that are so as well as rolling release, that's a bit different,
but he's, but either way, if you want to use it in this trail, you're going to try one of those other
ones. Who would have found is that I'm basically upgrading, if I do an upgrade that's basically,
here we go again, they determine a lot, it looks like, yeah, the same old, same old for the most
part, programs, waiting. I mean, okay, something changed sometimes, like in more recent years,
we have Wayland, for example, as well, not just Exxual, yeah. But generally speaking, it's the same
old, same old packages that were being upgraded on, were being used, say, 10 years ago.
And here we have our newer versions, obviously, and you know, that's kind of like you'd expect,
a new X-Log, a new Firefox, a new, you know, so the destiny was on. So it's just basically,
and that's, I think that's one of the reasons why, at least in one project,
when they were doing manual quality assurance and testing, all of the updates and ISOs,
and there's no automatic scripting as well. And it's just crazy in a way, because they do,
there's all the alphas and beaters and Alpha 1, 2, 3, and they were doing manual testing, and
they're one that's taking so long to come out with a new version of distro as well. But I thought,
like, how can you do it? It's quite impressive in a way, with quality assurance people are doing,
but that's driving me crazy in a way, because it would just be like, whoa, I've just,
I've just installed whatever Alpha, now I'm going to tell you that. I'm going to do it again with
Alpha 2, we're saying, and then something on beta, and then, I wonder if you can understand why
they got so redeemed, some of them, when they finally released a stable version of that distro,
and in full, I think I might not be able to tell you.
What do you mean? I'm sharing how many packages you have installed on your system right now,
like the number of packages you have installed. Why are you so curious?
Well, because from the way you make it sound, it's like you just grab a, a server distro,
and then go ahead and clone the repository over to your distro and then start unpacking everything
in the repository. No, no, no, I don't even have a, no, not a server distro. A desktop distro?
Right, right, if he comes a desktop after you unpack the repository,
no, no, no, no, no, no, what is a desktop all along. I don't have a server distro. No, I start off
would say the standards abundantly, let's say for example, usually, from the conversation
it was man-dragged and it was it was not too bad, right? And then it was the deviant
history as well, because you said to me, what districts have I used, right?
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I said which district are you using in the past as well?
I said which district are you using? Which one are you driving?
I'll actually be back to a bunch then. Sorry it's seen because I guess it's the one I kind of know
more so and it works, you know. I'm not mixing districts like an RPM district with a dev district
with a, we're trying to, yeah, different packet managers, I mean, I mean, that would,
then you'd get into a mess, I guess, if it even works, yeah. I'm trying to mix like
dev and RPM and somehow with, yeah, with things from different districts.
Blender OS has entered the chat. Yeah, but I have probably a few thousand packages,
what, I don't know, one here anyway, just dependencies, you know, you've got to have some.
So the moment you're going to look at your packages, the fans on your PC start to spin up?
I don't know, there's always dependencies, yeah. You put some programming in and then it says,
hey, we need to install listless and that and that with that all to make this work.
Yeah, I mean, these call it dependency hell when that went wrong as well, when, you know,
you're doing the pack, you're doing it, I mean, it seems to work, especially now in this
way, I think, but in the past, you know, you could be on an upgrade and then suddenly some
reason, oh, so and so isn't working and all we need to bring this in now or that it was
some problem and I think it was doing a packet of manager as well because there was a whole thing
about like, because it's like with RPM, they call it RPM hell, didn't they?
And there was a debate about like what would be better, would it be better to just do it
hamadistoid RPM or dead or maybe even source files, yeah. And that, as I think,
mostly passed now and that most distros are going to be quite, you know, staple and set up,
you really can just pretty much say, right, I want this, this, that and that and install it from
the packet of manager and 99, 99, 99.9% maybe of the time will work and it'll be okay,
it'll be fine. Have you ever tried an immutable distribution?
Something go wrong with it, it's not very likely any more it seems, because it, you know,
it's just all this testing and stability that have been done and the way that things kind of
work upstream and join together as well as, you know, we've got we've got over 20, we've got
about 20 years of Linux now, clearly on the desktop. You were trying an immutable distribution.
So again, have you ever tried an immutable distribution?
Well, like what? Like vanilla OS or for door, silver, blue or any of the other immutables.
You mean that's a more please?
Ubuntu core is another one that just immutable, you know, you're not meant to interact with the
beast system.
Well, I've been reading about Ubuntu recently as well and I think that that's probably a good idea.
I mean, okay, we, we're the sort of people that may what might want to know.
Actually, not so much of me, I want them to just work to be honest, but occasionally,
even so, there might be reasons during some config file, maybe, depending on what you're doing,
but I think the idea of Ubuntu core, which you just mentioned, so I've been reading about recently
as well, I think that's a good idea because it basically, it's basically worked, worked like
the Chromebook where your operating system is kept set by the operating system is kept set
brought from the app and then you, you can't operate the operating system, but you can
operate the app and it's all kept set for it and maybe they're correct that if this can hit off
as a chance they could go into like, you know, it possibly, when they were some of the usual
kind of computer users over, what if Microsoft allows that to happen of course, but I mean,
they've got a better, they've got a relationship with conical action software as well now.
And apparently Microsoft's loved it up to these days, so they say, well, the money is,
yeah, business sense, has its chat. So you've got Microsoft Ubuntu,
Mandrake, Slackware, Debian, Arch, Fedora, TempleOS, DOSBox, WebOS,
WebOS. What else you get installed on there? So you've got a store where?
On your system. Me. Not on this one. I mean, in case you had to do virtual box,
because there's reason to or want to play with something a bit, but don't really do anything
like groundbreaking usually. I mean, I mean, I know I could do more with Linux if I wanted to,
but mostly I'm just on the web browser, it's really nice to email, see your web browsing,
type something up. Oh, there you go. What do you use for email? What do you use for email?
What do I want? You ask me a question. Which, which program do you use for email? Or do you manage
email in the browser? You ask me a question. Oh, is, is my mic breaking up? I don't know, maybe,
it sounds okay to me. It's okay to you. Okay. I don't know if maybe you're a connection or you're
in a Sebastian. Can you give me clearly a Sebastian? I mean, now I had some problems with someone,
but I don't know. I think you asked me a question, and I don't know, here at the end. Yeah,
you said there you go. And then what do you put what email client do you use to use a client?
Or do you manage email in the browser? So I used to, well, I used to use
Thunderbird in the past sometimes, but then I ended up a lot on in Google Metal, but now because
I've got a group and I've got like one is for a group, I've got to look at the like guest, I've
got a role in the committee, I've got to look at email that come in, people who want to potentially
join the club, right? So I got access to that account. I set up an email in Thunderbirds with
with my personal two personal email accounts as well. And one of them is an old project account
for a person who used to be a role with distro, not really a role with that now, but it's on the
main list. So that's getting email all the time. Really is the other one is more my personal email
account, old email account, but I've got all three of these up in Mozilla Thunderbirds on my laptop here.
You don't pop right now. What? Pop right now. Where'd I met?
What I say is on the server as well, email unless you delete them off. Yeah.
And because I'm doing a lot more emails, I think it makes sense to have fun Thunderbirds get again
basically. So for the last two years, I've been using Thunderbirds again, yes, two years or so.
Are you ready to make it? And there's been an upgrade to Thunderbirds as well, although I didn't
really see anything sickly groundbreaking when that came to me as an upgrade, but still
I think Thunderbirds are very good, though. I think it's old school. I think what's the shame
with Thunderbirds, John, is that there's no Android version as well for some reason, or something
like that. Mobile version. Oh my god. You use email on it. It should be really, but they're also
talking about how they're going to posse drop Thunderbird at one stage, because it wasn't really
the money or whatever it was. And then it's sort of still here now, but it's good. It's old school,
but it's good. It worked. So it was hilarious, you know. Well, did you say you use email on mobile?
Well, I have used not one, no, not, well, maybe on the web route. No, no, no, no, actually Google
app, free mail from one mic count. Also, I've had actually devices, like I've got devices,
like the old Ubuntu phone. So years ago when I did like the Ubuntu phone or the Ubuntu tablet,
I had what was called Deco as an email client as well, and they stopped. We had to really do the
apps anywhere in the Deco two, I think. But for a while, I did actually have that set on the tablet.
So I'm with a keep and with a Bluetooth keyboard or keyboard in the mouse, because it was all about
convergent. So you could turn it into sort of a bit like a laptop with the stuff. But I remember
doing emails sometimes on that. I didn't tend to read. No, I didn't do them on mobile when they're
proud, or maybe a little bit. So how do you set up your filters on mobile?
Right. But I'm more doing emails on the laptop now.
Does email on mobile have filters? Like, do they allow you to do filtering in any of that,
email on mobile that tends on which app you've got, yes?
Yes, you know, I don't trust mobile enough for any of that. So I don't do anything serious on mobile.
But doesn't break as my go-to on desktop.
Oh, but why don't you trust my mobile now?
Mobile is meant for the convenience, not the security. So they can't build in the security features
that you'd need a lot of the power tools that you can get out of a desktop app. Just isn't meant
for that phone factor. So even even if they cared to supply it on mobile, you just is just not
practical. So I don't trust mobile phones. I mean, I've got one that I should really be
reinstalling updates. It's got a bit of it. And I know it's on the Wi-Fi because of the
where I need the password for that really. But I know it's not going to be as secure in that
in that sense now. But what you said you were doing. Trust mobile.
You're still doing email on an older Ubuntu phone. So your account's probably...
Oh, no, this is Android. No, no, this is Android phone. I'm talking about now. But I know it's behind
or not on updates. So, you know, it's like, well, I should really install the updates on that.
But you're not cool in hip and using a graphene OS or any of the other
the other Android variants. Well, I know that. Well, well, I've got
I had a remix. Oh, years ago, crowdfunded a remix OS, remix mini thing for the TV. Not only
used that. And a remix OS ultra tablet thing. That was interesting. What is Android-based
operating systems that was interesting. It had some security maybe in wherever.
Well, that one was Chinese, but still. And I know there's been things like the Niche OS and there's
EOS from the the old Mandrake found or something. And there's... And actually I've got
Vola phone as well more recently. Well, to make that two of them actually. Because I've got the...
But I couldn't get the original Vola phone. You look at Vola, find that online. It's interesting
if they're still turning the phone. I should have checked this myself. But they were crowdfunded.
And then they released a phone or two phones. But you had the option of Vola OS based on
Android and more privacy respecting. Yeah, one of these privacy respecting or more so
Android-based operating systems. Like you're talking about, I believe. Or you could have
pre-installed where the button you touch or you be pulled. Which is interesting. And it's
and it's hello wealth systems in the German, the base in Germany. And I couldn't buy the original
Vola phone because I found out when I found out and the Dolly crowdfunded and tried to get one
from elsewhere, but I couldn't get it. So I got the really tried to get an original as well,
but oh well, I wanted the original. But a lot of the upgraded 2022 version, the 22. And I thought
and this is like a normal phone I put on the Vola OS on that one. But then I've got a more
robust phone as well based on the previous phone I think. And that's one with the button you touch
on it now. But that's quite a nice phone. I mean, it's supposed to be robust, like you've dropped
this phone, you know, and it's not moving in a building site maybe somewhere. Do you have one
of the old-school Nokia bricks? Well, yeah, this phone is more like a brick, but it's definitely
more robust, yeah. So when you need to make a phone call, you tell everybody to stand back
where you whip out the brick. No, not quite. Not, not, but you know, no, no, no, this,
this is really the phone. It's more robust, a very robust one. It's actually quite a nice device,
but it's definitely, there's supposed to be more, you know, more solid and more like, you know,
you drop this and and it's going to be all right. It's not going to just break on your
smash screen or any of that. And I saw some video on YouTube that you can actually, you can also
pre-installed the rest. I mean, you can change that cell afterwards or send it back maybe. So,
it was interesting because those are basically modern devices that actually support a bunch of
touch as well and even buy the fault. So kind of friend going like, oh, well, it's all okay,
all that stuff, but they don't sell it anymore. There's nothing they'll have when I said to him
like last year, well, actually, or the year before was like, well, actually you can buy what's
called a roller phone. So that's not completely true. You can actually get a phone. Oh sure,
they're not in the main screen shops. These are actually phones, but, you know, you can buy
something modern enough hardware actually. Have you tried a pine cone? What's that? The pine phone?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got pine phones. Is it useful for anything other than burning your
battery down in 10 minutes? Well, actually, I've got the pre-part edition which I should
more with and I've got a more recent one as well that did actually come with Manjaro pre-installed.
I haven't done that much with it to be fair yet, but I do have that. I've got a pine tab too as well.
I was going to get the original pine tab because they sold all day and had their money to buy it
and then of course it sold out in like four hours. Did you get to risk five version of pine tab
too or just right away? I don't have to risk five. I looked at that, but like, well, I've got the arm.
I mean, I mean, this five is very new for pine tab and means you have to kind of
why there is development purposes at the moment. So how's the pine tab working out for you?
Is it usable for you? I think this five is more for developers that play around with
something different, you know? Has the pine tab been useful for you? I haven't done much with
mine, but it does come. It's a nice device, yes. It seems well built, hardware for what it is.
It comes with Manjaro. It seems that you can basically do most things that it looks like a bet.
It's been like desktop, you know? When you turn it on, it's like, it's very much like desktop
Linux, like on a laptop, obviously it's hard now, but it seems to be anyway. I think no
I mean, well, two bugs there, but the software has always improved on these things as well.
So as long as it wants to go internet-connected and not do the updates or whatever,
I would say it's worth getting a pine tab. I said that to somebody before,
I'm here yesterday, it was saying they were going to buy one second hand,
possibly, and I said, yeah, why not get a pine tab, the nice devices, they're really cheap as well,
but in cheap and good sense, they're not cheap as in this is rubbish.
Well, like cheap as in, yeah, this is good.
The weird thing about pine is they come up with some excellent hardware, but the software is
usually kind of non-existent. So I mean, you know, if I can come up with a phone that's open
source and great, if you're going to write the kernel and the operating system and everything
else to get it working, you know what I mean? Kind of like you just glue some hardware together
and sell it. Hopefully somebody will be able to get it working. Well, yeah, well, yeah, that's
kind of it for some of them. I mean, I mean, they're all certain devices that will run whatever,
and they really do lots of devices that will run whatever potentially. However, you need to obviously
have the whatever wishes of software that she works on it, and that is in a condition where
it's stable enough to be able to use it enough, not just buggy, buggy crashes and really does
anything. I don't mean to be too critical of pine, because I know what they're doing is really good,
and I know I am coming off as super critical of their products, but I mean, like, like, I am
well now with pine as well, it was a bit of a nod one because they came out, they had they had no
default operating system for more the pine phone and the pine tap suddenly, and they'd come out with
versions like the um about the UB ports or a bunch of touch version, for example, suddenly as well,
and or you could refashion have, we forget a few different operating systems working on the
ISD car potentially, and then people were thinking, hey, they're going to probably go with like
a running touch by default surely, because a little maybe selfish OS even from from the all
Nokia people, but but your touch seemed like a very good candidate, and it could have been around
a few years already and everything, and they've done some hardware, and they're conical, BQ,
BG in the past, and all that, and then suddenly, they went to my genre, and it was a bit like, what,
where are you going to this arch-based Benjaro thing, and that's going to be able to fault OS on
the pine tab, although, like I said, it seems to work, although I haven't internet-connected,
and they need to look at that a bit more really, and probably get some updates, but
and actually, I think that might be the problem as well, I'm not sure if they have an update,
so just yet, we have to actually look at the moment, re-flash each time we want to update the OS,
because that's how some of these projects begin as well, that you have to like re-flash,
or you don't know what data, oh there is, but it's not come just yet.
So what do you think about the pine note? Do you think the pine notes are going to be usable?
Maybe it's voting release, and like the desktop, and it comes with updates anyway.
Do you think the pine note's going to be usable anytime soon?
A lot of that, and that was about a year ago, and I think it's still not come out, has it?
Yeah, because think about it, they're not even putting a full desktop operating system or
anything like that on it. I mean, it's Ian, and it's meant for mostly reading and a little bit of
note-taking. You'd imagine that it wouldn't be as difficult to get something like that out and
about, or lots of potential, but it just falls flat on the software side.
I've started off a brave house, something basic, and then it says, yeah,
I love my elastic, because it was an alpha and bugs, and really, I've got the pine tab,
though, I did the pine time, I did pick up two of those, or they're not really done,
and they've equipped them with a smartwatch, yeah, but that's a good, but that ran some
Q-tail time, wouldn't it?
The old time, though, yes, it was not going to look to something else.
Does it tell the time?
The other thing with pine is that they don't always just, they seem to kind of,
my friend said this as well, but they seem to kind of just, like, kill off a device,
or they come out with new ones, I'll be in here with you. One next thing, and it's like, hang on a
minute, what about the pine tab two, or the pine tab, not pine tab two? Yeah, they're actually at
pine tab, that's right. But if an original pine tab, there was some reason, I think,
when they didn't come out with that again, production issues, or something, and they were like,
now we're not doing that again, but we'll do a pine tab two, which we similar.
And I think I read that the pine tab two, they're going to possibly sell a bit longer,
but we'll see about that.
Q-tail time, did you get the pine time to tell the time, like, you received the time on a pine
time?
The pine tab, tablet.
Right, you said you said you have the time, the watch?
Yes, I do.
Can it tell the time?
No.
Yeah, yeah, of course it can.
Well, I better do. Otherwise, it's not much for a watch, isn't it?
For a start, that's like the most basic thing a watch has to do, or it's not a watch.
Well, I mean, when you're talking about pine, I just kind of have to ask,
come on, I mean, you know, you got phones that don't turn, some phones that don't look like a watch,
but it isn't a watch, yeah.
Right, no, it's just a device that you struggle to load software on,
and hopefully it doesn't ignite on you.
The pine tab.
Pine time, time.
But yes, when these companies rush off to the next device, they really do.
Spear like the DPD people, they're always, I mean, they've had crowd funders originally,
they came out some really successful crowd, I mean, from Hong Kong, this company as well,
but it came out with a, some good devices before crowd funders originally,
or something, go to the market, go to the crowd fund, they've made millions,
and then here we go again.
And now they keep on going back to, and they go, go each time they release a device.
And then the email on, I've got some of the other devices that email me for each device
that I bought and go like, hey, we've got this out of the device coming out.
Do you want this as well?
And then, and then they've got the market ready, and people go, and then they go, go,
and they're making pulling millions each time they're coming out with a device now.
Of course, you're going to buy it.
Why not?
No, I can't buy everything, just, I don't have the money, but they also do is they come out
with something, some device, or an upgrade.
But you got two keys, don't you?
They don't feel like the smaller screens, because then like mini PCs and whatever,
mini, it's all the devices, but then, hey, hang on, I mean, if you want a slightly bigger screen
suddenly, you could have the max, yeah, and have, yeah, and have the same device,
but on a slightly bigger screen, the little sort of thing.
Yeah, you got two perfectly good kidneys, don't you?
You don't need all of both of them, do you?
And then they just, the device has to, the device has to,
and then, so it goes on.
And then maybe over the years.
I think some of Mario's getting lost.
Nothing actually new, and go, hmm, okay, what's the latest, new thing, not updated change thing?
Your idea is fine.
So it might be, I think he's probably got the latency issues.
Not to say that that's necessarily a bad thing, always, but he said to me,
you've jokingly said to me something like, oh, don't, don't run the,
your email, your mobile email is fighting your older Buntu phone,
but the thing is actually, all those older Buntu phones, I mean, I really got two of those,
really, the BQ that came out in the original, and yeah, I don't.
You're not going to tell me you're still running email on that, a Buntu phone?
And then, Mario X, well, no, well, no, not what I'm going to say.
Because it sounds like you were flirting with an idea like, where, hey, I know you were joking
about it, but really, no, no, no, no, no, no, well, no, you, no, what I'm going to say is,
I could, as in I could, and I'd have it supported, actually, because I could upgrade those phones
properly and go under the, let's say, the latest versions of UV, of UV ports, where it's still
being maintained, yeah, under the community now. headline, crazy man on internet runs email on
super outdated device and gets rolled like a run.
No, what I'm saying, like, I think it could be done, and I, and I supported operating system,
that was my point, where you do get security updates and things still, right, not, not on some
old version from whenever that, yeah, I'm not supported anymore.
So sub headline, and he still doesn't believe it'll happen to him again.
Are you paying me, you would actually try to update that device and then run your email on it?
Well, I, I think it, I think it, I'm not, probably not so, other devices, but I'm saying,
I'm saying it could potentially be done, yes, the hard west will work, yeah.
No, you don't want to, you don't want to do that.
These phones are from 2015, these two phones I'm talking about, but they still work.
You don't want to do that, because the software for those phones weren't even finished
back when it riled. I mean, do you put, but, no, you don't want to do that.
But I have to reflash.
Are you, are you hearing yourself right now?
You're talking about a device you can't even update, you have to reflash it.
Yeah, can we done? Now, I have, I have someone I know he said that, yeah,
it was going on an old phone for a few years, but he had to have updates.
He's like, yeah, I got a new phone and lasting like, okay,
you know, someone else, but also, I remember, I remember this one guy, right,
our fire see, this was a bit, this was a bit of an odd one, because he said to me,
like, I don't know, two years ago, whatever I talked to him,
and I, let's say two, three years ago now, probably, probably.
But this is where, this is a bit odd, because some reason he decided that he really likes
for dual record one, yeah, from, from 2003, yeah.
Um, quick question, does he, does he have people looking for him to lock him away?
I'll say it again.
Does he have people that look for him to lock him away?
I, I don't know, yeah, I don't know,
but he, he maintained it and it's kind of himself and whatever, and I think he said,
but it's like, it's like, really, you're keeping like, for dual record one alive in like,
like 20 or so years later.
Yeah, I see, you know, I mean, I get it.
If you want to do that, there's nothing wrong with it.
I mean, yeah, and doing whatever, you know, but you personally did,
some things you got to let go.
So you can do that, actually.
If you really like an old version of, um, a bundle or, um, somebody gave another
distro name earlier and I said, what's that?
Or was that, but yeah, if you, actually, yeah, if you want, you can have,
that you can take some old version of a Linux distro from the 1990, 1990s, yeah.
And, uh, trying like, you know, update it enough, put a modern kernel in there and, um, maybe,
we should, maybe, uh, wait, X or something, we'll try to and, you know,
and maintain it and be like, hey, um, yeah, no, no,
distro from 1991.
And I got it working in, in 2024,
because we were 2024, oh, that's the world bound here.
Only a bad, only a bad influence was suggest such a thing.
There's no reason to say it now.
In 2024 without great the kernel, I've got it running, uh,
some of the new, uh, newer GNOME, uh, programs, even though something like that.
So let me ask, do you not like this guy or something, you convinced him to do that?
It comes with freedom, yeah, open source comes with freedom.
The ISOs are still there probably, if you look around the internet, you can download
that's your base.
In fact, I'm talking to just now, wherever you really are, this is your challenge for 2024.
Yeah, you sound like I'm sure Ken wants to show about this, right?
No, no, don't, don't go give me your terrible ideas over here now,
trying to get us to run Fedora one.
Well, that's a, that's a thing for real.
Some Canadian guy on IFC, you know, I was like, yeah,
yeah, and did you offer him the idea?
You sound like you go around offering people terrible ideas on the internet.
They're like, hey, I bet you won't run the first edition of ARCH in, in 2024.
Yeah, yeah, you just picked the disc rope.
Sounds like it was going to be doing the first version.
Oh, 2024 and get updated, updated sort of security standards as well.
So you can have it on the internet, that being hacked, you know, or whatever, you know.
And then, and then, and then you can do HPR app servers about where?
I'm going to do a HPR show about the guy I met during the new year show,
who not only has every distro under the sun installed on one laptop.
I'm going to have a pop hit, you know, with music, there's a chart, yeah,
like pop music, or the UK, there isn't.
Yeah, no, probably there's a marathon in my room.
Well, it's going to be like, it's going to be like the top of the charts of HFR app servers, right?
Your app server about this.
So I'm going to put number one.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do an episode about you on the HPR is going to be how you,
you told us how you have an entire Linux repository on your laptop,
and you just unpack the entire repository.
Hopefully it'll eventually turn into a working desktop machine.
And then, and then you carry around a,
a 10 pound cellular phone because it's durable, and it's technically a weapon in most countries,
because it's so dense.
Wait, was that what was that about the phone?
Sorry, yeah, your cellular phone weighs about 10 pounds,
and it's technically, you know, it's technically a blunt,
instrument weapon in most countries.
My point was you can, if the hardware still works, and you can get an operating system that,
you know, that work, or the early one that's, uh,
from this sort of time, not, not the old one for the 1990s, although,
like I said, for that as well.
You can, you can, you can still run Linux on the hardware and how it's working, doing something.
Feel like with the old PCs, when people would breathe life into them,
by putting that on, yeah, for finding some distro that works and getting rid of the windows,
that's the same.
I'm going to go get some caution tape, some internet caution tape, and wrap it around your handle,
so that way everybody knows, be careful taking any advice from this guy,
because he's going to try to get you to run for door one, or some.
I'm sorry, if a door one is too modern and too easy for you,
I mean, you try, you challenge yourself and say,
after that's the first version, that sounds good, because if I remember correctly,
when I tried to, uh, years ago, I mean,
they're in a virtual machine, but I tried, you know,
I mean, if you're getting after that's weren't they?
So I have thought, mm, right, okay, um,
and I'll do a virtual machine, let's see if I can get this arch Linux thing working somehow,
because apparently it's a bit, a bit more complicated.
Uh, I think I got like, okay, go set the time up yourself for distro, install, and normally
does that for you, at least, at least a bunch who in things would, but arch Linux is like,
no, what time do you want, how do you time set up, and it's like, really?
And then it's not just that, that's one of the things that I sort of gave up,
but I mean, if you want even more complicated, obviously, you've got things like,
I believe like, um, maybe Slackware or, or,
that's from scratch or whatever, I mean, I mean,
Slackware's still going from the, from way back, so.
No, I'm, I'm using a different type of Linux.
I mean, uh, uh, the Linux I'm using makes Linux from scratch look like a Ubuntu.
Yeah, was it?
It's called out there, Linux, where, where you have to just go out to like the landfill,
get some old plastic and silicone about melted down and, and start manufacturing your own chips,
then, well, you can't even go on the internet to get your distro, so you have to just write
everything from, from just, you know, just fabricate everything.
And, uh, hopefully you can get on the internet to then access whatever else you need,
what everything is just written from, from the whole cloth.
Do you need a specialist as well?
Well, you know what, uh, you can use a little bit of it because if, if you don't know how to make
a fan, your system's going to get really hot and the asbestos will, uh, help keep the fire
from spreading outside of the chassis to the carpet. So it is helpful to have some,
but, um, just don't let your local law enforcement know that you have a box filled with asbestos.
It says a good idea. Make it a lot safer. Like smother all those heat sinks with brilliant
updile as well while you're at it. Yeah, and, and, uh, with mine because I don't know how to wire
anything up yet. It, uh, it, it fires out a shower of sparks whenever I hit the, uh, the power button.
So, uh, you know, better work on that wiring eventually, but it, it's the ultimate experience
that gives you so much appreciation for how, uh, Linux works once, once you can actually run Linux
on it. It sounds a good challenge. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, once, once I get through, uh, uh,
beating this third arson charge that I have from the, uh, last two attempts that I, uh, went through,
then, uh, I'm, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have it tough and run and, uh, might even,
might even be able to connect a monitor to it eventually. Right now, I'm just, um,
running a postcard on it and trying to navigate whether or not it, uh, does anything via, uh,
beep codes. I hear you run your programs on the, uh, yourself, uh, punch cards.
Well, uh, uh, I was going to go the LED route to where I could kind of, you know, go about a flashing
light, but I've, I've been judging by the amount of sparks and wood side of the chassis
the sparks fly out of to inform me rather than, um, uh, things are working right or not.
I'm thinking, um, eventually I'm going to sell it. And when I do, I'm going to, I'm going to put
pine on the side of it and put it up on the eBay. It probably, uh, modified. I've been used as a
tizer as well. Well, you know, it could be used as a, uh, protective device,
but you'd, you'd have to find a way to get it to interface with the wall socket. And so far,
the raw, uh, shielded wire that I have dangling out of the, uh, uh, out of my neighbor's house,
drag, draped across the lawn to, uh, this is, this system, it, uh, I wouldn't recommend walking
around with that. He probably just used an isolation transform about 20 to one should do it, like,
uh, 20 turns on the output. And, uh, to every turn on the input, it should, uh, should make it nice
and safe. Well, I suppose that at some point when I, uh, when I, when I decided to, uh, get around
the learning how electricity works, I think that's going to, that's going to be my next thing that
I have to put on the, uh, on the list there. But right now, and I've been, uh, I've just been
heating up as much silicone as possible and trying to, um, get wire to kind of go in the middle of it,
so I can form my motherboard and then pour that mixture against the, uh, side of the chassis
on the inside to make the motherboard. Yeah, it needs some pressure as well. So you get an old
car jack or something, um, stuff a bit of a pressure jig. You put on a bit of pressure while you
heat it up. It'll be way better. Yeah, and, and one of the other issues I've been having with it,
I've been trying to, uh, get it to comply with, uh, ATX, uh, uh, motherboard standards. So, you
know, trying to pour it around the, uh, the rivet holes on the, uh, the, the backplate of the, uh,
the PC has been quite difficult. And, uh, again, you know, trying to make sure that I got the ports
lined up properly so that I can get the wire to, uh, the 24 port power cable to going through
the top. All that, all of that just kind of got fused into the motherboard. So hopefully, hopefully,
you know, uh, I won't need to change that anytime in the future. You probably didn't use enough
asbestos to keep the head away from the critical parts. I was thinking about that, but I mean,
it's, it's so hard to get your hands on enough asbestos these days. So, you know, what little I do have,
I got to kind of, I got to work with what I got. I've been trying to, uh, substitute with just
styrofoam in, in the places where I didn't have enough, uh, asbestos. We've got plenty of it here,
or the old government buildings are full of it, um, ironically. Oh, right, right. The people who
tell you shouldn't have it, they, they hoard it. Yeah. Now, there's a good lot of old infrastructure,
and they, um, they manage it quite well, a fair bit of it out there. It's pretty, it's
perfectly safe until you start drilling it or storing it or sniffing it. Yeah, that's normally how
a lot of things work. You know, it's all right to have it, but the moment you start sniffing it,
I mean, all bets are off then. So, Sebastian, you still over there, um, is your system still calculating
the amount of packages it has on it? You can buy that. He disappeared. I was just thinking, I've got,
I think I've got some red hat five CDs in a box somewhere in some old Slack rear CDs.
I'm currently running Linux Mint 20, so I'm a bit behind, but only update things when I really
need to. Yeah, we were just having a discussion about, uh, old, how you can run old distributors,
and get them updated. So, I mean, I said, I said for door call one, because I was planning to go
doing this real, I believe. And I suggested our other day here, runs, I think, oh, but I mean,
that sounds even better. Red hat five, yeah. The old, the old, the old stuff, yeah. So, although
I just just arched the next one, in this case, as well. And then he was going to give me a few
hours. So, about running these old distributors and getting updated enough with like the kernel,
more than kernel as well. Now we did it. So, and like I said, it's going to be the top hit on HPR
in the chart and in the list, the archives as well. As far as it got to use the old versions, but
really, um, not really, but maybe this month 16, 16, a bit, 32, bit computers out there, but
they're getting a bit old, even probably. But something there's a guy, Canadian girl, and I see,
like, I know, two, three years ago, and he said to me, real, like, if you think for door call one,
that he still, he maintains it, where does the kernel and stuff himself, and I was like, really,
why would you, why would you go and use that? It's like, about 20 years old or something. And he
just said, I really liked it because of something that's like, really okay. I prefer the novelty of it.
I suppose there's one thing, but certainly wouldn't, I hope it doesn't climb that it's useful,
really useful. I'm over and above any more modern distro. Well, I think he's one of those people
that don't like system D as well, but that's, but that was one of our side things. Because
over the last few days, they really don't like system D, or they're like, or pulse, or do,
or anything that's a bit more more new, you know, that's come in in the last,
away lands, that would be another one, yeah. Anything like that that's come in in the next few
years or so, or 10 years maybe even, or so, you know, that's a bit more new. I've never
looked at the old way, the old, all the old way. I don't know why, I wouldn't bother. I mean,
I remember the days trying to get Ethernet cards to work was difficult. And, um,
I don't know, why, why does that cut? Is it Ethernet cards? No, just Ethernet cards,
it's just nicks. Some didn't work on Linux, it was a real pain.
Into that, or what do you mean, or why? No, Ethernet, Ethernet.
Oh, Ethernet. Yeah. Yeah. That was a pain. And also, um, why, wireless chipsets,
I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I was new to
Linux and it was like, um, I had to door a call too. And then the brand new nature of things,
but I couldn't get a new brand, you know, I couldn't get it working. And so many so every
endist rapidly used a window drive. And I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a total newbie, yeah.
And then, and then, yeah, it was left with support with Bob Cobb and things. And then it's
luckily improved since. Yeah, I suppose my point is that the fixed all those problems,
uh, I don't know why you want to get back, and then work fun again.
Yeah, Windows, of course, works. I'm all I guess. It's 5.30 AM. I gotta get some sleep.
It'll be a bit like me. I think I've got to about five. And I dosed off around that,
and then I came back. So I was 9.30 PM here. I'm overdue for getting a beer. So it's 10.26 AM,
Hannah. Yeah. Archie, Archie told me yesterday he was going to be on in a couple of minutes.
Now here it is 5.30 the next day. And he just, he's just getting on.
Yeah, the only thing is though, right? If you go sleep now, then you're going to miss the end of
the official show because it finishes in like an hour and 34 minutes officially.
Oh, no, man. We're talking about the show. The show goes on until the last person passes
out, but if they stick that up or not on HPI, I don't know. It didn't seem the other one
actually. Of course we do. What are you talking about? We put all of it on. The official show finishes.
And the official show hour and three minutes.
I didn't know. It was official. It was just a bunch of people talking crap.
No, no, no, no, no. This has been recorded by Canon, whatever, and they will put it up on
on on on HPR with a show note and anything. And I think I'd like to have been done in the other
few years once I've missed a few years. I don't remember a couple going back when
for old 51 50 was on. I think, uh, pig, pig, one or two other. I think 50. No, I think 50
50 has actually died. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why you'll howl? But
so no, I remember, I do remember hearing about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are devices and things too.
I think was interested. The next next based devices. Isn't that. It was always good to listen to.
Yeah. And he was trying to stay here for like most to show as well. Is what he was one of those.
And he used to get tank tanked up as well. Yeah. Drunk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tank tanked up his
slang for drunk. You know what happened? You know what actually happened to him more. No? No. No. No. I can't
remember. I did know, but I can't remember. Yeah. Andy. He's in the archive here some
of my day. Yeah. Great. It was great. Let me ask. No. No, I liked him. Well, he's a great fun
chapter. Let me. Were you talking about 51 50? Yeah. And he has the way of breaking
before the scene, but you know what happens? I've already had right before the pandemic.
If I remember correctly, like more than 10 years ago, his family barbed-hit fire,
the house and lived on the farm with his father. And I think the house was one of those old
asbestos houses. And they both got really sick from the smoke, from the fire. And his father passed
away when maybe a year after the fire and 51 50 seemed to have just from being around him at
Linux events seemed to have some serious residual side effects from the house fire.
I don't know if that's the official cause of death, but he always seemed to be hanging on,
hanging on, but he always had problems breathing and stuff. Oh, events as well. It's interesting.
Yeah. Or has had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me. Me. Me. Yeah. That's it. But yeah. No, it's
so there's a fire and the how the IC and the lungs get and the properties and stuff.
The other guys on the next link cast would have.
No, it's just 10 minutes back and you would be here.
That's better information than the fire I did. That's as well.
Through the HPR and you, yeah. We had all these devices too, with that.
Me. It's a little bit quiet now. Yeah, there's not been as many people on this time.
Still being fun though. The Linux that casted a big memorial episode where everybody talked
about Netliner about him and I didn't. Yeah, we linked for that somewhere. Well, I think it's
right on the main page with the Linux logcast website. There's a link to 5150. Let me look it
up real quick. Go and link for that somewhere. Well, he's just looking it up. Yeah, put in the
show notes. Maybe I'll do that. I was doing that and left them later anyway.
I added it to the mumble chat, the link.
We'll be down there. Is that right? I had a lot. I had a lot to say about 5150,
but I didn't feel comfortable joining the podcast. Well, 20th of this year, or last year,
I remember correctly. It was at the end of 2019 before the pandemic.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. 2019. Because I'm all in a couple of times that year.
Saying that I didn't ever meet him or anything over two, but you have.
I don't know. I don't know how he would have been going by my impression of him.
He's been on the year show and I don't know him in person that you met him.
I don't know how he would have, you know, cope with the pandemic, if you see what I'm saying.
Because that was a struggle on most people, wasn't it?
Yeah, I don't know what I mean.
Yeah, I remember, I make sense, but
Yeah, the pandemic will grow up on it.
Yeah, everybody.
So that's what it's like to get a podcast. Well, not now, obviously we're on this, but
later or whatever. I'll give it, I'll give it a listen.
Yeah, I should start listening to the podcast again. I used to listen to a list of drive
about an hour each way to work and back every day. So five days a week. So it's about 10
hours of podcasts a week. So I've got through a lot of podcasts and then I've changed
drive, changed jobs a few times since then. So I don't tend to get as much podcasts
listening to them at the moment. We're having done for the last seven or so years.
Well, now, yeah, I think you said that earlier. I've tried listening to music,
although I do have to fit, I might listen to some of this again. It's a lot of it though.
And we want to get used to your own voice via that, you know, podcast or public speaking groups
as well, for example. So I've got videos and a lot of people say they hate their own voice,
just things their own voice or just like it and think they sound weird and things, but I think
once you get used to that, it's not that bad, really, isn't it? And someone said, oh, you sound
to me. Yes, you sound okay enough to other people that doesn't matter.
What was that? Yeah, I know what you mean. I do a few YouTube videos. It's nothing serious,
it's not going around. And the same sort of thing. But I know, it's like what I used to like,
or sound like, or at times you've got video as well, that I look like, oh, that's what I
sound like. Yep, exactly. Yeah, you get used to it. Like you said, it's going to be, I suppose
what's the word not concerned about other people. You probably think people will be more critical
than what they ever will be. That's the way I look at it anyway. Yeah, I guess so. I mean,
in a one way, yeah, you get used to that, or you are, you are, you can't change certain things,
very easily, sounds like your voice, or your looks, does what you can look to some extent. But I
mean, voice, you gem me stuck with that. And yeah, I think, yeah, sort of self-consciousness,
I think it's natural as well. People always worry a bit, oh, I can I cross in the wrong way,
oh, oh, oh, I'm going to sound, or I don't know, oh, and sometimes it's just the mind-playing
thing in a way and it's not really as fun as it's like. My biggest worry, why are you sometimes
as I'll start swearing too much? I've worked, I've just picked up some bad habits. Why haven't you
swearing hair at all? No, I try very hard. I think Australians in general swear a lot more than
some other countries. And it does, it's easy for it just to become part of your language.
Yeah, that's exactly how to stop sometimes. Swearing is, yeah, that's the best way.
Now, I've got another language as well, somehow Swedish. So it's kind of interesting sometimes how,
how like when you, they translate, it could be like, let's say someone swear words, because that's
what we're talking about suddenly. It's wearing. So some of the swear words, Swedish, it just works
very well in Swedish, or the sort of, yeah, the things you say. But if you translate some of it,
I've seen it on TV shows, occasionally that are, they were the English subtitles then,
or film or something, or Swedish, but then they translate it into English, and it's like,
and it's just amazing how sometimes how the effect or the words can just, you can just lose the
effect, or it's not quite the same when they try and translate it, certain things. Not just
swearing, I suppose that's what other words too really, and how they get it wrong at times,
you think like, no, it's between this, not that. Subtitles are wrong.
Yeah, so much of it is the context and the, I suppose, the inflections and the body language
it goes along with it. Yeah, yes, the context, body language, and the fun words, if you translate
into English, it's like, it'll be like, what do you mean? What's that? Yeah, it just doesn't work,
same. Yeah, you wouldn't write it down the same way that you might say it. But I'm also,
I play around with a bit of ham radio, so I have the same challenge there when I'm talking on
that. I don't use it too much these days, I've only got a VHF setup. I think ham radio,
the, yeah, the, you could like tune into, I think, like, people talking around the world,
yeah, ham radio, I think it's that, it's that, isn't it? Yeah, it can be. And if you've got a,
an antenna or a, well, station setup for, say, 14 megahertz, 20 meters, that, depending on
the propagation, all the ionists, I suppose, I've spoken, I've spoken, spoken to, I think it's one
of those kind of like, you know, niche interests or whatever that, you know, interests that
move people don't have quite frankly. It used to be popular, I think it's tied off a bit now,
because the internet, you don't need, you know, you can just talk to anyone you want as long as
you've got an internet connection now, like we are, but, you know, in the early days, so
only way to speak to England was via, I suppose, ham radio or international phone calls,
I know, I know, I thought about this before a few times myself, but, that, you know, the way,
yeah, you're saying it here, like, the way we just, the way people just take it all for granted
now, especially the younger people that grow up in that basically, but, but, like, like, your
thousands and thousands and thousands and whatever miles away from me, right? You know, there's a
master's, I think it's 11, what time is it there?
Quarter to 10, for you. Yeah, yeah, quarter to that, that was summertime more.
Well, it's going up to 11 a.m. here, so, that's like, you know, like a 10 hour or so time zone,
yeah, difference, yeah. Yeah, we're 10 hours from GMT, so it'd be better, right?
And that shows the, and then actually got sudden hemisphere over there, I'm an old hemisphere,
and even that changes, you know, but, but, um, it just shows that we're so far away from each other,
really, but yeah, I can just talk over there, send the message to Google internet.
So, what are those undersea fibre cables that do it? Yeah, yeah, and then the American guy,
and he's at quite far away as well, but even so, just, yeah, hello, oh, oh, I know, it's great.
Well, yeah, we've got like, no, it's not perfect internet either, but it's pretty great,
really, because it's like a home little world that humans have created,
all sort of thing, and for communication, and information, and other things, video, video,
music, whatever, but, you know, it's like a home little cyber, where's a cyber world, but, you know,
although you can get too sucked into internet, and think that you're only, you know,
only friends are, and you're just not enough to make it. So, the one that gets me is the,
like, sort of, dating sites and things, because it's harder to, like, meet people in person,
make, make friends with them, or whatever, and then, and then you've got dating sites,
and that's just awful as well, it's like, it shouldn't really be this way, where a lot of people are
going on dating websites to try and find someone, it just doesn't sound right. We've had
into that about 25 years, as well, if you can come to me, do you like, do you know what I mean?
Yeah, I don't know, I reckon, I'm not in a dating game, but my theory on dating sites is
you can play the odds, or play the numbers a lot quicker, so people can just have a look and try
and connect, and try and connect, and they can do it for a hundred people a day, sort of thing,
if they want to, and just play the numbers, whereas if you're going, yeah, drink a cup or
doing something, meeting people, you can make sure three people a day.
Anyway, the thing is, the thing is I live in a place, I mean, lots of people live in places now,
where, really, there's lots of people around here, or there would be, or there are somewhere,
but enjoyable, you know, other houses, whatever, people go and pass them the road, whatever,
lots of people in a demo area, or a few thousand, or whatever it is, but,
the whole building says a low-treach, I don't know anymore, you go out on the street,
you pass someone, you gently, you just go past them, no one says a low,
very barely, you don't know, and things like that, you know, they really get to know anybody,
like that, and if you go to a group, you have to make friends, we make acquaintances, we even
know, you don't quite, you know, we make friends at, and there's some guy who I was hoping would
have been on this in the way, because I wanted to say to him, yes, I just sent you a little podcast
from, like, October, about making friends, there's an episode in the archive that I just saw,
I was looking through the shows, like two days ago, a little bit, what's, what have I missed on HPR,
anything of interest, what's there, making friends, I was thinking about, there's an episode about
making friends, yeah, I would say listen to it, it was interesting, I was an interesting one,
and I met some good points there as well, but yeah, people didn't, when you say a low, and it's
hard to make people from groups, you make acquaintances, not friends, and I said, oh, no, no, it's
difficult, it would be more difficult to talk to each other, I'm a bit, yeah, I don't know, it's
difficult, yeah, I'm at three kilometres from a neighbour, not many people around where I am,
you know, people that think, and there's friends that you hang, you know, you might meet outside,
you're just a pub with, phone up, whatever, and then you've got online friends as well,
that you may know with chat too, but that's online, so. And the benefit of the internet dating,
when we do net friends seeking, or whatever you want to call, it is, you open to other countries
and places that might have more in common with them, I know that's, like I've got some people that
chat with, fairly regularly, that are in other countries, not really as a dating thing,
but just as a, bit of a chat, similar interests. Well, there's that too, so on the one hand,
you can get the scammers who say that from your country, when they're not, and they try and scam you,
and they try and whatever, or you don't, these are fake profiles, a lot, lots of that on these
things, now the free ones, I guess, and, well, anything that's not maintained properly,
or occasionally you get someone who says from your own country and not turns out, and it was like,
what? And that's happened at least twice, and I stayed in contact twice with two of these people,
because it was like, well, oh, you're only like, okay, but from, turns out, then from a different
country, not my country, and you're like, right, but, yeah, you can pretend to be from any country,
one on the internet, actually, pretty much. You can pretend to be anyone, the opposite sex,
what do you want to do, what do you want? Well, yeah, I mean, when the internet was new,
and that's what people did in these chat room, on text chat, a lot, and it was like, I think,
I think everyone did it, bit of a thing, but that was like, no, no, I see you. Yeah, I see you,
but that was a thing, I think it's still used just about why some people. Yeah, I remember,
I used it for a few weeks and gave up, and as soon as you turn it on, you get all these people,
and they just say, ASL, don't mean I just work it, well, I always thought ASL was above sea level.
I mean, you don't even get enough on the idea of, I don't know how old you are, but like,
I'm understanding, as I get older myself, so come up to that, say, well, late 30s now, really.
I'm starting to understand, I think, why certain people sort of go up on love,
or the idea of finding love, or at least text certain tech people do, and they go like, no,
I'm not interested anymore, or maybe I had a girlfriend, but it's not really work,
whatever, I don't care enough, or I'm going to do my other tech info.
Oh, that's the whole topic I don't sound in it, damn.
What, what was that?
It's a topic I don't sound in, human relationships.
Topic on, I don't sound, you talk for a long night, I don't know.
Yeah, but, well, yeah, you probably can, but some people generally have given up,
and they go like, no, I'm just going to do my own stuff now, and that's that, really.
And other people haven't given up, and they might even be married and whatever, but
I don't, it's just, it's difficult.
And I think with any autism as well, I mean, I've got some a little bit.
I had this chat with the other guy already, but I don't know, they say social skills and stuff,
and the way you come across people, and I don't know, some of that.
I think it's just hard for certain types of people anyway, because they get in judgements,
or people Dutch, even if they want to be open-minded,
that people still judge what they do, and it's usually in at least some ways.
And another man, you have to generally make all the first move, if it's dating or traditionally.
Which is another thing, which I think is, which I think is a bit frustrating, really.
Especially when we're aiming for like diversity, or at least like the UK, and quite a few countries,
especially like people are people, and it doesn't matter, just for all people, and let's have a more
fair society and world sort of thing, and that's sort of where, in certain ways, that's where
society is trying to go, and it's like, and it's like, with, it's like, with jobs as well,
like, because of debate, like, should men and women be paid the same, because women, we're not
getting paid the same, and jobs over here, turned out, and things like that, and it's like, well,
yeah, for all people, then we should be pretty much the same, regardless of what type of person we are,
but it's not quite how it is in reality, you know what I mean, men and women get treated differently.
There's a good reason for that. Well, men are traditionally seen as the stronger,
defending, and how together a type person, so... Yeah, but if we're going to have a look at
their world, why does the guy have to make the first move on dating sites, or in person,
or whatever, why can't the women come to the man and be like, oh, actually, I like you too,
I like you, because generally they don't, generally the women can sit back and do nothing,
and the guys come to them, so they're very fair to me. Yeah, I don't know, that's probably
a bit of, um, tradition, sort of hard to get, or... Yeah, well, yeah, it's not personal, but we
also kind of made it harder anyway, because if you approach someone in a job, for example, now,
when in the wrong kind of way, or in this sort of way, it may come across in a totally wrong way,
and then someone might get in trouble for it, even, let's say, and then, and that, and maybe
certain groups, and I don't know, and that's why people go online, I think, as well, because
it's kind of safer in some ways. I mean, I've spoken to a good friend of mine about this a few times,
and that's sort of what he said, and it just doesn't seem right to me that, I mean, I like tech,
in the sense of, I've got some using the looks and things, you know, but also dislike tech in some
way, they're just like these, like, dating sites and things, and how it is, and it doesn't help
the scammers ruin it, and as well, and the fake stuff, and they get all these fake accounts,
and that these companies can't seem to maintain that properly and get things banned off the website,
and we stand ruins it for people that are on there, when it's not, when it's not any fun,
it's not fun to be on there, and there would be our scammers that go and try and take money and
things, and build up something and trick you and give you a sub story about them being homeless,
let's say, and when they're not, and it's a scammer. Yeah, and I suppose, under the dating of
people, it's tough to accept the way that it is, and if menorx, if you think you expected to make
the first move, and just make the first move, and no. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, we're in certain
separate places, if you make a move there, it could be the wrong place, or we shouldn't have done it
here, or I'd do that, it's all a bit confusing. I wouldn't do it at work for starters. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, second, that's kind of what I'm saying as well, so maybe in the past and the workplace,
someone could have done a little bit of that, and it would be like, okay, but nowadays,
now it's like generally seen as like, oh no, you better not do that in the workplace sort of thing,
yeah. Yeah, no, and that'd be my advice to anyone, just keep it out of the workplace,
it's just fraught with danger. Not saying it can't work, there's probably plenty of examples
where it has, but I would advise people to not do that, but if you're in a social scene,
well yeah, we ask someone you like, and then, you know, you're going wrong, and then,
even in, and even in, there's like a, like, university or whatever, somewhere like that, I guess
it's a little bit harder, maybe. Well, you'd love being the right social situation, maybe,
and then maybe a party, well, I don't know, it's varying in a bit on person, but I think it's
harder these days, but yet somehow people get together and things happen, but by those people
would, I think what people would like, autism in particular, they kind of, or as the Asperger's
take, maybe kind of give up on this, and then go, well, now I'll just do other things.
Oh, I don't know, more of a bit different.
Oh, one is a bit different as well. It does seem to be that people with ideas,
they do tend to drift towards tech jobs, I don't know why. I suppose they can live in their own
little world where things are fairly predictable. That small sort of logical thinking, isn't that? It's more,
yeah, exactly. You write some code, it doesn't. I think Lilla is supposed to do.
Most people just do that. We, we, we, we use the, you said, what are your programming as well?
No, I'm not a program. I, when I'd have done programming at school, but I haven't done it,
you can do it seriously. You are a program, you can do programming, yeah.
You're simple stuff. Simple, yeah. Now, I think most people don't understand, like, what
we like, Lilla, they don't get Lilla, so they don't, they don't, they don't really understand.
It's the Windows, Mac, Wi-Fi, Android, or whatever other people are using. They don't, they don't
really, they're not even willing to, they, they're like, I did it. The computers are a bit
difficult. Well, the computers could get, what Windows in Crash and you need free virtual, but
they don't do it. The computers are, oh no, the computers are all, and then they use what other
people use. I don't, yeah, why would, why would one of them use the notes? They're the
notes. But they're scared of, wait, something different, what it does, what you can do with it.
They're scared of what's different. Oh, they're not scared. They don't, they've got no
motivation to change. They go to the shop, they buy laptop, Windows. I'm scheduled to do a speech
this January, for mid-January and more like group, because after you slide and this for this one,
and I'm going to do a speech about, I'm trying to make it funny in places as well, but it's a
class or something, and they've got some ideas, but make a bit of a joke about stuff as well,
because people say that slide speeches are boring for about seven minutes. I'm going to do one
about how you install a notebook system. Use the on your PC and it's going to be a bun too,
because actually it's not that difficult to pull it on a normal PC. You've got to go, you've got
to get into the BIOS maybe first and tell the, get the thing to boot up, sure, but maybe you make
the USB stick or whatever first, but once you, and maybe the stable school boot with a more
decent system, or once you've done that, it's a little bit partitioning, or go to the installer,
and then the way you go. And you could show on the data side when you don't like a lot of people,
though. I think it's quite easy to install an operating system in this context,
like a button. Most of the people do that from BIOS 3. I don't know who they are. I see, you know,
yeah. So, £22,000 to £20,000 in particular. I mean, it's easy. It used to be a thing. I said,
XF86 config file with all those settings and warnings in there. If you stuff something up,
you're going to blow up your monitor and all that stuff. That was scary.
XF86 config. Oh, the, oh, it's been a while. Yeah, yeah, that sounds familiar. Oh, that was
for the monitor. Yeah, a few things in there. The monitor was one of the refresh rate and stuff
like that. Yeah, I think we're talking like 20 years ago. I'm thinking that sounds familiar.
Yeah, probably. 90, like 90s, I suppose. I think I've heard of that.
Yeah, no, it started a little two foot well, no only open source, two thousand of three,
and then I just got a whole family piece for 17 years or like three thousand and four. So I had
to do a call one and then the bunter and things. But yeah, I know it used to be harder. Well,
well, they were very harder, but you used to get the issue, though, so we'd grab a wireless
car as that we said earlier, someone did. No, there was no internet. There was help files on
the CD ROMs and the main files. Yeah, I've seen them before. And it was always like, really,
this is this is the help. And someone say, say like run man, man, whatever, and you get some,
and it looks a little bit geeky in the terminal as well, to be honest, and it was like, oh,
I don't really understand this, even though this is supposed to be the help file. Yeah, I mean,
there's usually groups and things to go along too. Yeah, there's usually groups of few beds maybe,
and then documentation became, well, hands on the project, but yeah, documentation gets over,
look, but documentation is good, wikis and forms, maybe, and all that. I know it's improved a lot,
since like 2004, five, and that sort of time. And obviously from the 90s, I think I can't
go back as far as that, well, that's myself, but if you work for those who can, obviously, it's
kind of a long way from then as well. Yeah, it's good, especially like Linux Mint and Ubuntu,
I assume Red Hat, I don't know, but they probably just work most of the time. Whereas I was first
out of playing with it, it was, you get to a point where I didn't know what to do, and I'd have to
talk to someone about it, physically go and see them. I was also lucky on ham radio on VHF or
UHF, there's a couple of local guys on the repeaters that were pretty savvy with Linux, so I have
a bit of a chat to them sometimes, which was called handy. I think it, I think it, yeah, no, it's
gone a long way. Really, really, you have been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public
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