Episode: 2263
Title: HPR2263: Freak Does Geek
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2263/hpr2263.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 00:33:21

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This in HPR episode 2,263 entitled Freak Nuzgeek, it is posted by first time post FTH and
in about 24 minutes long, and Karimaklin flag, the summer is a drift variety on topic
with the letter as well.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by AnanasThost.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HPR15, that's HPR15.
Get your web hosting that's honest and fair at AnanasThost.com.
Hi, welcome to Freak Nuzgeek.
Today's episode is sponsored by the letter A.
My name is Frank Tomosoki.
Welcome to Freak Nuzgeek.
This is my very good friend Hugh.
What's this podcast about, about audio?
Yeah, all sorts of different things, accessibility.
Freak being unique people.
Everyone is unique.
People with accessibility is somewhere in requirements.
Don't have to be weak.
Bus is just closed.
Bus doors are just closed.
I'll step on Frank, you step on behind me.
You see a seatbelt.
There's one that's forwards a little bit, and then to the right there's two of them.
This one?
Yeah, that'll do.
This particular episode we were talking about audio.
And one of the great things about having someone who is enhanced on an audio spectrum,
would be able to enable me to concentrate on describing things that are happening around us.
In audio?
Yeah, because I should explain that.
I got visual impairment.
Right.
And my visual impairment has deteriorated a lot over the last 20 years.
So I get most of my information for getting around, like I just got on the bus then.
I actually went on first, didn't I?
You followed me up the stairs.
So the way I was doing that was a combination of using my cane.
And just this sort of audio soundscape all around me.
And so I'm seeing through that.
And I reckon my brain has rewired.
And all of this sort of spatial information coming through my ears is now being rewired
and almost creating this sense that I can see where I'm going.
It's not the same thing, but you were interested in that, weren't you Frank?
Yeah, I did.
I was always fascinated about how different people perceive the world in so many different ways,
like philosophically, like how when you look at different pieces of art,
different people express different perspectives.
But the truth sometimes comes across, and that's a wonderful thing.
And it doesn't matter how different we are, those things that we connect through.
That's what I'm interested in.
In fact, we can connect.
We're multi-sensory creatures.
And if all of our brains are as that seems to our environment all the time,
this idea that everyone that can see, or everyone that can hear,
or everyone who's got sort of two legs, that we're always interacting with environment
in exactly the same way, it's kind of a myth.
It's the myth of sight or the myth of hearing that everyone hears or sees in the same way.
I think if you're an ophthalmologist and you're measuring people's sight on that chart,
you know that chart you have to look at.
Yeah, they can test you to a kind of scientific norm,
which is how many lines down can you get, and they can say,
when you can't read it anymore, because you say, well, I can't read that letter anymore.
So that's a scientific test, but that's such a narrow, beautiful idea of seeing.
Because when you're talking about looking at a piece of artwork,
you're not reading letters.
You're looking at colours.
Everyone knows that colours are variable in the way people see.
It might be not crucially variable, but there's probably differences in the way people interpret and see colours.
They might not be big ones, but they might be little.
But then there's angles, shadowing, depth of a perception of depth.
Content like, is that person smiling or not someone might say, I think they are.
Someone else might say, I'm not sure they are.
They're sort of looking like they're looking a bit amused or they're asking a question.
And so you get all this interpretation.
You add all those different dimensions up, but are those two people seeing the same thing?
And then going on to this connection business, when I'm connecting with you in this environment,
and we're just walking down the street, you just dropped off your stuff that's cool.
And we're walking down the street.
I'm using audio, mainly, and touch.
You're using visual.
And we're both just walking next to each other.
You're not guiding me. I'm just walking next to you.
And then we get to the end of the street.
And lots of people from around probably just see us as two guys walking along.
They don't realise where using totally different ways of getting down the street.
Totally different senses.
It looks the same.
That's amazing.
It's really cool, because you can get quite rude bus drivers sometimes.
And I think the bus driver this morning didn't realise we had been connected in such a way.
No, he closed the door on us.
Yeah, and he had one of those most embarrassing moments.
Like, oh, right, OK.
But fortunately for...
How did you open that door, Frank?
I just used the force of will.
It's just amazing the way the servo started, the hydraulics started shutting the door.
And then you stepped in, and I was waiting for you to be snapped in half.
And then the door opened again.
It was like that moment. It's Star Wars.
Go to the trash compactor, dude.
And that was also the geek aspect to it.
Because you were talking about variables.
I was going to do some tutorials inside this at some point as well.
But I'm not sure.
It's a folding creature.
It's been sitting here for about two years.
I've had the freighters get URL.
But I've never had the cell conference to push through and do the podcast.
So it's quite cool to be finally recording it after two years of having the URL.
I think the time was now.
It's on the road on this one today.
Yeah, that's it.
So you were talking about connecting.
Yeah.
How you're doing it visually, I'm doing it.
It's just sound.
Yeah.
And also perception.
So we've connected.
There is this common place where in the objective reality,
despite a lot of different perspectives of the objective reality,
there are things that we can scientifically prove like a tree to people.
You'll always be a tree.
So audio is the theme of this podcast.
So when I'm walking past a tree,
unless it's making the sound and unless I've touched it,
I don't know it's that.
But there is a scenario and I do know it's there.
And that's my knowledge of the environment I'm in.
So even if, on a previous day,
I kind of walked a little bit too close to the edge of the pavement
and just touched the bark of the tree because it's quite close to the pavement.
Then next time I walk past,
I'll kind of hear the sound,
slightly bending around that tree.
Nice.
Watching you navigate with a stick.
Right.
I was really excited because anyone who follows my Twitter feed
knows that I was really, really excited about Daredevil, right?
It was really perfect.
When it first came out, did the new release of Daredevil?
Right.
And like seeing you navigate,
it kind of set me off, right?
And I was like, are you a secret agent?
You, right?
I can't reveal.
The way that you described how you perceive this model of reality,
there are certain things that you will wake up and come back to.
I'm seeing you kind of like,
should you go through the dream reality?
No, that.
Okay.
Right, okay.
I've never asked you this.
What is it like dreaming, Kim?
It's a tough one because we have to say that
my dreams feel the same as they always do.
Nice.
So that's the first thing you put.
The next question is going to be,
what are you experiencing in those dreams?
Please.
Right.
This is really, really hard to describe
because I think that
my awareness of where I am in the world
is quite a lot non-visual.
Yeah.
It's also visual as well.
Right.
Now here's the,
this is a bit of a mind bend.
No.
Try and imagine
seeing
your eyes right now.
So look at something now.
I've got my eyes shut.
Open them.
Look at something.
Right, okay.
Right.
And then anyone listening,
look at something now.
Look at your hands or whatever.
Pen on your desk or whatever it is.
Just look at something.
Now, try and imagine
what that object feels like.
Touch it.
No, don't actually touch it.
Imagine the sensation of touching it with color.
No, imagine the sensation of touching it with your hand.
Right.
Imagine there's a pen on the desk or
we're sitting on a bus.
There's a scene in front of you.
Just grab that hand on as long as you can avoid a person
sitting in front.
Now you look at it.
Now, if you actually imagine touching it
and then shut your eyes and just sort of
imagine the combination of what you've just seen
and the sensory information coming in through your touch
sensations, your touch channels.
This is where it happens.
No, that is my visual reality.
That is the thing.
I am seeing it.
The enhancement you have.
Yeah, I'm seeing it.
But I'm seeing it.
And so when I'm not actually dreaming of visual at all,
touch.
I'm kinetic.
I'm doing that.
It's like I'm just existing touch.
Now sometimes, so that's how that might not help
but it might have just been in a bit.
So what I'm perceiving is like that the
body that you inhabit is a way of experiencing the world
when you are in the conscious awake state.
But you have a perception of your body without having it
physically.
So someone puts a coat on.
They wear that coat.
That's you in the day.
But you have a perception of that coat all the time.
And you can touch things with that coat.
But your perception is that this coat allows you,
not no, you actually perceive the world
and you're able to perceive that coat all the time.
Where do you got it on or not?
That's it.
You got it.
Nice.
That's really exciting.
So it's new for me.
So the most important factor I think in dreaming,
and this is why this question,
because have you noticed I've held back from the obvious question
which everyone often wants to ask somebody who can't see,
which is, do you see in your dreams?
I didn't want to say that.
No, I didn't want to say it because it's a cliche.
You see, that's why I'm talking to you.
Yeah, that's why I'm talking to you because you haven't asked
actually a really awkward question to answer because
to answer that question you have to say,
can I just explain to me,
that's the wrong question to be answering.
Asking me, because that shows you don't understand dreams.
Or you haven't thought about your own dreams.
So you're just asking a cliche question.
And they don't think about it.
Yeah, they're asking a cliche because they're probably not thought about their own dreams.
Because are their own dreams just purely visual?
They've probably never stopped to think that.
Actually, there's probably all sorts of weird sensations going on in your body.
Your dreams, your combination of all sorts of different sensory things.
So do me a favour, right?
The first thing, if you are listening to this podcast, right?
Contact you and me on,
or you and Frank, on freakdoesgeek at gmail.com
and tell us about what your experience of dreams is.
Particularly if you've got an interesting perspective.
Yeah.
I'd like to hear what people say,
because it's our whole world,
it's multi-sensory.
Right.
When I was doing my master's degree or those years ago,
I got a medal set to uni.
I wrote a section on how our experience isn't visual.
Visual is part of it.
It's just that we tend to describe it visually,
because that's our mode of communication.
That's true.
But behind that mode of communication,
it was probably an awful lot to do with physical.
I mean, when you're looking at a street,
you're walking, say we're walking back from school,
you're looking at the pavement, right?
No, I couldn't imagine from the days when I could see that pavement today
was slimy, wet, it was raining,
there was probably bits of rubbish here and there.
But not always.
Yeah, not always, it varies a lot.
Imagine the thing you're looking at.
You're seeing this visual reflection of light.
It's reflecting off the pavement.
The tip of my stick is touching that same pavement.
So I am getting the reflection of physical vibrations.
Because you can feel the same pavement.
From the same pavement.
Yeah.
And you sense the...
I'm sensing different characteristics.
Yeah, different characteristics, physical characteristics.
That all you're doing is seeing them.
So cool.
It's reflecting off the pavement.
And you're written as a picking it up.
My hand is connected to my stick,
which is touching the pavement.
And that's picking up the vibration, the physical vibrations.
But we're both picking up reflections from something.
Right.
Now, for you to see anything,
that pavement needed to physically exist.
And actually, you will be able to walk on the street
if it didn't physically exist.
So physical existence, which is something we touch,
actually, is the start of everything.
So there's an objective reality.
And then there's the reality that we experience
as changing creatures,
experiencing the objective reality.
So there's subjective and objective reality.
What happens to me and you?
Yeah.
And our personalities as we travel through life.
And then there's these objects that we interact with.
Yeah.
And share life.
Three.
Like tables.
You were talking about chairs the other day.
Chairs. What was that saying about chairs?
You were saying that I can't remember that.
Well, you read some sorts of times.
I'm used to thinking about audio all the time.
So much.
Yeah.
To forgive me for using the expression,
I can't see the wood for the trees.
No, I just am an audio person.
I can't just am soundscapes.
And you've been audio-serving for a long time.
Yeah, it's just saying.
So just before we started this recording,
I was saying to you,
I've been doing audio for nearly 40 years.
And I'm 45.
Wow.
I made my first recording,
you know, a public cassette in,
got my dad's microphone plugged into the tape that
and did my first recording.
And my first recording wasn't about,
you know, it was just,
it wasn't about anything.
It was just,
I can't remember honestly,
because I was probably about five.
But I remember just being so excited about it,
but you could make noises and do fart sounds.
And then you could play them back.
To me, that was so funny,
but to see the importance of that,
at that age,
making a fart sound is actually very,
very funny.
And that was my reality then.
So I was using audio in the way
that meant something to me then.
I can remember,
my mum giving me,
I don't know,
if this room reminds you of anything.
A tape recorder that had us,
it was half speaker.
And then half cassette.
And then it had the plastic buttons right at the end.
I remember those.
Yes, right.
And I remember getting one for my birthday.
And I remember having such a fun time,
I'm taking it around the house
and recording people when they weren't expecting it.
So it was like,
because one of the other things is like,
I've always been aware of what's happening, right?
So like with the internet,
and I could see it happening in front of me,
with these sort of sound things,
I was really, really excited about it.
But I never did anything, right?
And it seemed like a few people around the house.
Yeah, that was it.
I'm interested in this,
because I'm sure I must have,
so it had batteries.
Yeah.
Portable tape recorder.
And like,
we use like,
probably triple A batteries
and double A batteries,
mainly now.
So those are the sort of ones
sort of the size of your thumb,
whereas like these ones
were D size batteries.
At the time,
there was the ATATs around,
and I had to confiscate my own batteries
from my ATAT.
All terrain,
I'm a transport for anyone
who doesn't know Star Wars by now.
Which shouldn't be very many of you, right?
But if you aren't aware of Star Wars,
it's okay.
We're embracing everyone.
So you're looking at something.
Oh, I must have those.
They were big.
Still got them.
I'll need that.
A hefty bit bit.
Beasts.
Like a can of dreams.
Oh, no, it wasn't actually.
It was a seas.
The Ds were in,
I must have nicked them
from the ATAT for some time.
Hang on.
You need to run these Ds and Cs.
This is for a different podcast.
Right, actually.
Because you have talked about A,
triple A,
which is just a bit of the theme of A.
So you know,
I'm starting to be a self now.
Of course not.
Of course not.
It helped me derail enough
for me to be me.
Just take this one.
We need to get out of it.
Okay.
We're in Dagobah.
This is the tail end of Victor's Peak.
The prototype.
The zero episode?
Zero episode.
Right.
Okay.
And, um,
yeah.
So one of the things I did record was
Sesame Street.
Right.
And I used to record the introductions
and all the, um, count...
Counts, as well, you know?
Yeah, I remember.
One.
Ah, ah, ah, ah.
Two, ah, ah.
Yeah.
All that.
And then, um,
and then this episode is sponsored by the ATATAT.
That was our thing.
Yes.
So...
Just see Big Bird there.
Just smiling.
He didn't smile that he had a beak.
But you were asking me about something about...
I don't know.
You taped that.
You were recording people and I was just saying...
Yeah.
What we...
So when you were sneaking up on people,
you were sort of saying,
you used to...
Enjoy that.
Yeah.
This is the right word.
What I used to do was instantaneously play it back.
So it was only like five seconds,
and then I'd play it back,
and then I'd run.
So, like, um,
my mum used to do quite a very good shrill.
From wherever she was in the house.
Yeah.
Um, and then,
and then, like,
for it to take this particular tape recorder,
and I'm doing things to it.
To get to it.
Break it.
Yeah.
Run, take the batches out.
Yeah, that's it.
And the thing I love about catching people on the words
is it just...
It kind of short circuits people who are not...
We're not used to that happening to us, are we?
To someone coming up and then playing back
the thing we've just said.
I think people should...
Maybe we should do this in towns and cities a lot more.
Do you know what's really going to be able to talk?
Play back the last five seconds of what they said.
And this is going to be much in the anger
or the confusion that would be going on there.
Because we're just about to do this.
And then,
release this episode.
And I'm...
We're probably top and tail it with some other bits as well.
Or maybe not.
Maybe we'll just release it as...
There's a...
There's a website called Hacker Public Radio.
And that was about, like,
when...
Way back in 2013 when a lot of adventures started.
Yeah.
I went to Oggham,
which is like an event for free e-libar
and open source software enthusiasts.
That's OGG, is it?
OGG.
OGG?
And what's that stand for, do you know?
OGG?
You knew...
You knew Ogg-Vorbis.
Yeah, I knew about Ogg-Vorbis,
but that's just because I've got it on my sound editor as a format.
Okay.
The format that is...
It's an open format.
So you can see inside the format,
you can see how sound is converted from binary into whatever other form.
But I don't know the source as well as most people
that would probably know anything on the Hacker Public Radio.
Because they're really clever.
And it always felt intimidated.
I know, and actually,
the beauty is that I'm not intimidated by it
because I just select it as a sound format to save us.
Mmm.
And then that's it.
So all of that wonderful stuff done by those programmers
is just working in the background
and giving me what I want,
which is just a sound recording
that's sort of small enough to email to someone.
And what is it like?
These programmers that have developed this particular format
have given it to the world, right?
So anyone who uses the internet can use this format
without having to feel like they need to...
or they're having the legal requirement
to pay a proprietary for that.
Yeah, because like...
So mc3 is light in the store.
Is it a format that you can't use?
It's not that.
But by actually format, I can't remember who aims it though.
Yeah, but for my understanding,
it might not be...
Anyway, the point of this podcast,
we're sort of wrapping this up
and we're talking about audio formats now,
because we moved on from take decks
from the 1980s,
which were very, very good.
You can do the same thing on a mobile phone now,
you can run up to someone and catch them,
surprise them by recording the last few seconds
of what they just said and playing it back to them
and seeing how they react.
But when we've moved on to modern audio formats,
which is all digital,
has disadvantages,
also has disadvantages for the audio files out there
who want super high quality.
I don't know.
We're not going to get into that.
So here, I'm just trying to find out
where we've just lost him.
Frank's just...
He's on his phone.
He's on his phone.
I don't know what I do.
This podcast is...
I tend to go into crashing.
No, don't let me do it.
One of the members of the podcast has gone into his phone
and that's it.
Well, the thing is,
when you listen to Linux Outlaws,
you've got Dan Lynch and you've got Bab Shershaw.
These guys were legends, right?
And I'm still our legends
and Linux Outlaws was one of my stable diets
for a really long time.
What I'm just trying to do now
is I'm just trying to check the MP3 on my phone.
I can't even hear a Linux phone.
He could be on anything.
Because back in the day, right?
When I was listening to Linux Outlaws,
it wasn't in Android.
Right?
Well, it was probably just...
No, it wasn't in Android.
I think there was...
There were...
Right at the front of the wave, really.
I think it's owned by the...
moving pictures engineers group.
What's that?
That's what it stands for.
And say, look at you.
And Peg here.
Yeah.
Okay.
Developed by the Framhofer Institute.
Framhofer Institute.
Yeah, that's the...
The Framhofer was the guy that did the maths.
He's so kind to me.
Yeah.
Forrier Transformers.
I think forrier Transformers.
Yeah.
He's been letting me...
He's been so humble here, right?
But he knows so much.
And I go, oh.
My active patents only remain in the United States.
Oh.
And it was released in 1993 or 24 years ago.
Wow.
And it's contained by MPEGES,
which I could start clicking.
And I'm going to stick this on the show notes.
I think that's the safest bet.
So here's a quick question, Hugh.
Are we going to start talking about...
How to adapt for different people and talk about...
Because the internet is such a...
I think we should do that as part of the second instalment.
And in a minute, we need to get off the bus and we...
Right.
Good one, are we?
It's huge.
Oh, I don't know.
Shit.
That's nice.
Bro, where are you going next?
You're going up the back.
Are you going up to Hobo?
Yeah.
Are you going to walk past my office?
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
