Episode: 3131
Title: HPR3131: HPR Community News for July 2020
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3131/hpr3131.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 17:37:40

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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3131 for Monday, 3 August 2020. Today's show is entitled
HPR Community News for July 2020
and is part of the series HPR Community News. It is hosted by HPR volunteers
and is about 120 minutes long
and carries an explicit flag. The summary is
warning can and they've discussed some disturbing agricultural practices.
Listen to discretion is advised.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by archive.org.
Support universal access to all knowledge
by heading over to archive.org forward slash donate.
Support universal access to all knowledge
by heading over to archive.org
Support universal access to all knowledge
by heading over to archive.org
Support universal access to all knowledge
by heading over to archive.org
Just want to tell you that this show is deals with agricultural scenes that might not be that easy to listen to,
also a lot of bad jokes.
So listener discretion is advised.
Hi everybody, my name is Ken Fallon and you're listening to another episode of Hacker Public Radio Community News this time for July 2020.
We're recording this on Saturday as four o'clock on one of the most sunny days in the Netherlands
so you can expect some noise from the outside.
Joining me this evening as ever is Mr David Morris.
Hello, hello, and it's not very sunny here.
We had a very odd day yesterday, but it's windy, it's cooler and it's going to rain, but it's great.
I love it. Don't like the heat.
Yeah, well, he gets me all right, but any who back to glorious 15 degrees of Irish summer tomorrow will be glad.
15 degrees. Let's head for the beach.
Anyway, as some of you know, this is HPR community news of what is HPR.
That is a good question.
A little bit of an existential crisis this month and we asked on the on the mail list what is HPR and more about that and on.
But this is HPR community news where we talk about stuff that has come across janitors desks this month.
And traditionally, we would now introduce new hosts, Dave, but sadly, but sadly, no, no new hosts again this month.
That's a terrible thing.
It is considering, Dave, that we have a notebook called for shows at the moment.
We're kind of getting the summer northern hemisphere low and people are busy doing other things.
So we could do it a few shows coming in.
That would be awesome, especially from new hosts that would be even more welcome.
Exactly, exactly.
So what we normally do is we go over the shows that were discussed that were presented last month to make sure that every single show has got some usually positive feedback.
Because I think I don't think there's been a show yet that I've thought gosh, I don't I don't find that particularly interesting.
So the first one was Zen Flotter 2 with Fugutia as a desktop.
I thought we had another one from Zen Flotter earlier previously on this.
He had Fugus.
Yeah, he was using it as a server set up.
So he's now talking about it using it on his desktop.
Okay, cool.
And Luna, Jen, Jernberg.
Sorry, everybody.
I butcher people's names universally the same.
So he says Firefox.
Firefox.
Flap.
Black.
Good God.
Firefox.
Flap.
Hello.
We have Firefox as both a flap pack and snap.
And that is one of the Muslims saying that.
All right.
Okay.
Really key role in driving the Swedish Muslim community forward.
Very good.
From Dr. Go.
Talks about that in the show.
So this is an answer, which is great.
Excellent.
Do you want to do the tattoo one in the key reaction, please?
I need to refresh this.
Okay.
I can do it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's okay.
I leave these.
I open the tabs for the next month after we record the previous show.
And then I forgot to refresh it.
So it's sitting here with the hugging.
For all month.
Yeah.
This is a browser.
Sorry.
Ten to use only for this.
It's a pale moon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, you don't really want to know this, do you?
I don't know why I'm telling you.
Clot 2 says.
SD card plus encrypted hard drive.
I love the idea of wood glass decard reading slash home.
From an encrypted hard drive rendering computer without the SD card.
A brick.
Great model.
Nice.
Yeah, yeah.
He's a great model.
Thank you.
Good idea.
So Tony with his matchbox restoration part four.
This one was where he was using caustic soldering every time I think of that.
I think of when we used to, you don't want to know on the farm what we used to use it for.
Harble, horrible, horrible stuff.
Not very eco friendly or indeed animal friendly.
Arthur 72 says.
I'm guessing now, but I shouldn't be.
Yeah.
Go on.
Do you want to do that one?
Okay.
Well, it's anybody who's a bit squeamish and turn it off now.
It's there's a new regulation that cattle cannot have horns unless they're special breeds.
That's why you don't see cows with horns.
So when they're young, you need to take the horns off.
And later that was done with like a hot soldering iron.
That's you basically burnt them off.
But prior to that, it was done by putting caustic soda on the skull and MG.
It could go badly wrong.
It was.
Okay.
To do that.
And it took like several days for it to work and then.
Obviously incredible, incredibly itchy and incredibly cruel.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't quite understand.
Yeah.
If you just cut them off, they will regrow presumably.
Yeah.
Because they grow.
Yeah.
And then there's an archery and we had a calf that bled to death as a result.
Oh God.
Did you know that if you had...
Should I cut this out?
I was just going to go off on another topic.
I'll just shut up.
I'll just shut up.
Two versions of this.
I don't know.
It's a...
I find it fascinating, but although rather horrible.
But I'll put it on the other way.
I'll put it on the other way.
I'll put it on the warning end of the front.
Okay.
Archers 72 says this is a very cool topic.
I do like this topic and I look forward to the next episode.
Which is good.
Yeah.
I'm very much agree.
I'm being fascinated with what Tony's doing here.
It's...
I had not thought of using cross-exodor to do this sort of stuff.
Never used it much except in chemistry lab.
But yeah.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Very good.
It is...
Yeah.
I was thinking there was lots of stuff that I could use this trick on not necessarily restoring model cars.
It certainly would take paint off on it.
Yeah.
I don't...
Don't these things look nice when they polished up?
They look like last picture.
Yeah.
They've got some great pictures.
You really do need to if you're following along with this one.
If you have the...
The ability to go to the website and look at the pictures you should do so.
The following day was for me.
Nobody cared.
Finding an Android phone to run linear joyous.
I...
I...
I hit this in that for a fact.
And it's become more difficult.
A lot of the apps that I've used to use, you know, be able to take off on one phone.
With Google services and put it on to another one.
Now I've stopped working over the summer.
And require Google services to run.
Why?
Yep.
Who knows?
Yep.
It's surveillance capitalism isn't it?
It's just...
And some of the applications were for...
For applications that particularly were...
Angling the whole privacy aspect.
And yes, they're requiring these Google services.
And here.
There you go.
What can you do?
I know.
I was quite shocked that things are as bad as they are.
But it's...
I've always semi-hated my Android phone.
And I know I hate it even more.
Well, I have ordered a pine phone.
So that is coming into...
I will see.
At least the pain of...
Of not knowing if the phone that you're getting is actually going to run or not is...
Is going to be less.
At least you know that you're supporting...
They support installing other operating systems and other bootloaders and stuff.
But if you're ever...
Thinking about lineage OS or something similar.
Have a quick listen to that show.
Okay.
A HPR community news.
Only one comment Dave.
Apparently we weren't in controversial enough.
Oh, CRVS.
I found it surprising.
On relating to maths on HPR.
I found it surprising that it would call it the dark side of teaching maths on HPR.
Did I say that?
Yes.
Since I just think you recall the community news show.
That's the logo who kept himself requested someone to do a show.
And for you, I was a little plus transforms.
Yes.
He's got you.
Yes.
I will use any angle to get shows on HPR.
CRVS.
Yes.
Yes.
The dark side of teaching maths.
I don't know.
So it needs to be done, I think.
And familiarity with it makes it easier, I think.
I'm the world's worst mathematician.
But I do find myself reasonably comfortable with some of the things that I'm hearing from Andrew.
Yeah.
Conway, for example.
My whole attitude to maths changed in the last, I think, two years when I heard Tatoo say that maths is nothing more than a paper-based computer programming tool.
To paraphrase them greatly, but suddenly I went, oh right.
That's what it is.
And also that explains the fascination that the requirement for everybody.
Oh, you have to, in order to do computers, you have to be good at maths.
Not necessarily.
Well, yeah, I know as a mere biologist who didn't have anything to do with maths and stuff.
I found that I could program computers back in the early 70s.
And the natural thing to do is to go and look at all the statistics stuff that we were being given as recipes.
You know, take your numbers out and produce the mean blah, blah, blah.
And think, oh, that's a program.
I can turn that into an album or program and did.
And to get another's work, I said, well, how'd you do that and stuff.
But it just seemed so I was an early wakeer upper in the biology department.
Now that very department is stuffed with bioinformatics people.
Absolutely.
So I, yeah, I was just a fraction ahead of the curve and I've been way, way, way behind it now.
Let me see, finishing the frame on the long wheelbase recombin bike, which is part of bicycle hacking.
New series, I think.
I'm not mistaken.
And it's about inspired by John Colp's initial episode.
And this is another one like Tony's where it really helps if you have a look at the photos in the in the show notes.
Yes.
I made me think I need to get a workmate or something similar.
Yes.
Hit that's the upmarket one.
I've got this smaller one.
That's it.
Yeah.
It's in, it's in constant use mine is.
If somebody could do, sorry, sorry, go on.
No, I'd finish.
If somebody could do a quick, absolute review on workmates or similar products and what to look out for.
Or for the best one will be etc, etc, etc.
That would be absolutely awesome.
Yeah.
There's quite a range of them.
The black and deco one, which is what this is, is very, very good.
This one's got a platform.
Are you doing the show now?
No, no, are you going to submit it later?
Well, yeah.
I'm off to, I'm off to Lidl tomorrow when they sell interesting DIY stuff to buy a pillar drill.
I think hope.
Oh, yeah.
How much?
About 70 quid.
Nice.
I am very tempted to get one.
They sell quickly.
They did not have a huge stock and they sell quickly.
So you're going to try and get in there or my son's going to do for it.
You're going to get there early and try and grab one.
It's a DIY-ish machine.
Boy, does it make a difference if you have one of them to drill proper holes and things?
Absolutely.
I really, when I came to this house in the garbage, they had a one that could mount an electric drill on.
And I threw it away because there was a bit of rust on it and I didn't really know what it was at the time.
And I've been kicking myself ever since.
Well, what can you do?
I do have one of those, actually.
And I haven't used it.
It was specifically for a black and decade, but specific size drill.
But you could probably adapt it.
It's just a 3D printer.
A post.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But a proper pillar drill with proper speed controls.
Yeah, exactly.
It's got a laser doodad on it.
Oh, it is.
Cross, cross hairs.
So your hole is going to get drilled.
So I don't know.
I probably not get it after all this winter.
So the following day, we had a quick look at new features coming up in the JDK 15 by Daniel Pearson's.
I liked this.
This was a good, a good thing to do, actually.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And a different type of show that I enjoyed was, was good information stuff to be talking
with the programmer guys, developer guys around the virtual coffee corer in the morning.
Yeah, I went to an environment where everybody hated Java.
And then a whole team came where we're hired to do some particular work.
And they were all Java people.
So we were all sort of partitioned between the Java haters.
But no, no good reason, I think.
And the ones that loved it.
And I never knew quite where to stand.
And so this makes me think that Java is actually something maybe I should get into.
I don't know.
My son's doing it a lot everywhere.
Yeah, yeah.
My son's doing it is just in the process of finishing a project for his computer science emitsy using Java.
Yeah, they use so it seems to be quite keen on it actually.
Okay.
Cool.
Yeah, good show.
And what's in Java?
Nice and a nice concept.
If somebody wants to do something similar for Python or insert your own favorite programming language here.
Following day we had a hookah with the review of the Akaso.
EK7000 Pro camera, which was quite nice.
Little nice.
Sounds good for what it is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Basically a knockoff GoPro, I guess.
And as ever, a hookah's show notes are excellent.
But I didn't feel the need to put them into our show notes because it's related to a product that probably won't be available.
Well, that will probably be available for the lifetime that his website is up.
So kind of weird when when to put stuff in the show notes on when not to.
Yeah.
So following day we had pest control.
Yeah, this was.
This was an interesting show by operator about how he deals with, yeah, stuff growing around.
And then I think Brandon Ohio summarized just perfectly surprise from the title of the show coming from operator.
I thought this would be some cool way to find bugs in the code.
Surprise to hear.
This is about real life bugs.
Good luck operator and I feel your pain.
Wow.
Yeah.
It sounded horrific.
Oh.
That was the word I use in my notes here.
So many nasties.
He's blooming cockroaches and mosquitoes.
Mosquitoes particularly.
Oh, hit them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What a what a thing to have to deal with that a lot.
Wow.
With.
Well, exactly.
Why not?
Would you want to live there?
Which was pretty much my question.
So as he stuck in the called climbs of Scotland.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, suffering the road.
I think I think people that live around here quite happy to to put up with the with the the climate that we have.
I stuck my head out yesterday and my neighbors were sitting out in the garden.
They're saying, oh, we can't stay in the house.
It's too hot.
Yeah.
And it was it was about 26 degrees yesterday.
Yeah.
And yeah, it says not there's not like Scotland at all.
You know, it's going back to cold again.
So it tracks people who like cool weather as this week.
Nice.
Nice.
You don't have to go far from here, though, to get into the the Scottish lands at a full of the midges.
Dead midges.
There are there are a version of musketeers and the same.
Well, and I don't know actually.
I don't think they are back in the time I did the interview.
They said there are the midges are.
Or maybe I understood it to be that there were a part of the same family.
I don't know to be honest.
So I shouldn't really comment at all.
But I have never it's never occurred to me.
It might be.
I don't think they are actors.
The zoos vectors are anything like that.
But by God they bite.
And they just.
Wow.
The way they crawl around the your eyes in their holes, biting your eyelids and the corners
of your eyes and everything.
The midges is a small fly, including species of several families of the non-muskete.
Nemo teocurrient.
Dip.
Teara.
Gump.
Dip.
It's just two winged flies.
Yeah.
They found seasoning practically every landmass permanently or desert blah blah blah.
So they're non-musketeal thingy, whatever that means.
So they're not a musketeal.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
We don't want that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm just just scratching the midges.
I.
Yeah.
Working on a farm again.
People are covering their ears.
No, no more farm story.
Well, I found it best just to go out to the beginning of the summer and just get totally bitten by the feckers.
And then it seemed at least then it wasn't as bad for the rest of the summer if you got it over a mongol.
Did you have things called kegs at all?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a horse fly.
Yeah.
Those are vicious.
Oh, really?
Are you definitely getting them?
No, not around the sort of housing areas, but I've no wondering in the hills here.
And those things just will not leave you alone.
They keep coming in for the.
And as soon as they land, they've got a.
You've got a few seconds.
You've got like a half a second before they bite.
And they don't they're not like mosquitoes.
It's got a sharp.
Um, provost this thing.
These things have got two abrasive pads.
And they scrape at your skin to make a hole in it to get the blood.
And you feel it.
It's like a red hot needle coming out.
Yeah.
I hate them so much.
You find them in Scotland.
Yeah.
They're pretty.
Yeah.
They're pretty common.
And operators are sick and they're gone.
Excuse me.
Because you think they're a little bit croplish.
Yeah, yeah.
They're not invading your house.
So there were times around where I am very far south in Scotland where the midges do pop up in the evenings.
Yeah.
If you leave you with doors and windows open to cool house down, then you need some time.
Oh no.
The midges are in.
There's not that many of them.
But that's going to change probably as climate change gets worse.
Because we were depressed and only making it even more depressing.
Thank you, Dave.
We have mosquitoes on that's up to keep the pests out.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, you can do.
I think in the midger is most houses got got screens on the windows.
But don't do that right here.
Maybe we will need to.
Okay, following date, unscripted ramblings in a walk crisis up the manner.
Do.
Do.
And this one was an episode, your goal.
We were talking about liberal nilness, which is the manner space.
And it was a cool project.
So shall you want to do that one?
So Brian in Ohio says network.
I'd love to hear more about how you build out this network.
Great show.
And Wendy goes says co-op hosting.
I also enjoy hearing more above manner dot space.
Very co-op style of hosting services.
As discussed, as discussed in episode two, four, one, one.
Co-op paradise is something that I find very encouraging.
BK says, please tell us about how you built the manner.
I enjoyed your talk very much.
And it survived my project of creating this kind of resource to facilitate community
with minimal dependence on the cloud.
Thank you.
I hope you can manage to follow up talk with details of community builders
that would help us do the same and build on your experience.
I may have an episode to contribute to that series if it ever comes.
So yes.
At nightwise, the joy of retro computing nightwise talks about the old commuters
isn't exotic and how it is a lovely geek getaway.
And there was one comment on that.
Shall I do it?
Yeah, if you like, yeah, yeah.
Brian and Ohio says computer learning today.
I completely agree with the level of learning with computers today.
So much of computer space, computer programming is worth paying.
Learning today seems to be all I learned.
I learned I needed to do.
So do in front of get pip install blah.
All computers slackware install this fourth on microcontrollers.
Is the place to go to actually learn.
Thanks for the show.
Go to here.
The roads are bad in other places and places other than northwest Ohio.
Now, Brussels is pretty great road rise from all accounts.
Yeah.
I don't know.
This this show, I think, has a major case of rose tinted glasses.
Because I remember sitting in front of.
Dusk computers trying to coax auto-exect up bash and.
Sysmem high and sysmem low and interrupts here.
Because it had this network hard and then you buy a very different variant of the computer.
I remember wasting hours upon hours upon hours.
On all that sort of stuff that now just works.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the stuff that you learned back then.
The thing about it is.
Is there is stuff that you can learn.
For example, bash.
Or the classic man lines and Linux tools like LS or whatever.
And in 60 years, you will still be able to use those tools.
Stuff like auto-exect up bash.
Those high mem.sys that were just hacks that.
I don't think I've ever used them in another context.
Since then.
And there's quite often where recently I've been sitting as.
AWS.
As an Amazon thing where they were describing some.
Innovative thing that we're going to develop.
To fix some problem.
And I was thinking that's actually frame really is what you're talking about.
Frame really.
They used to use that sort of algorithm when calculating how much.
And how much to build you when you were doing.
Frame really stuff.
So.
Okay.
What goes around comes around.
But a lot of this.
Batch stuff.
A lot of this.
All core PC stuff.
Is unusable because it was so proprietary to that particular type of hardware.
Yeah.
I.
I have a.
My mind's a little bit of a blank when it comes to older computers.
I did use early 6502s.
I did learn to do 652, 652 assembler on a.
I can't remember what it was called.
It was just a.
CPU on a on a PCB with a few lights on it or something.
LEDs on it or something.
And you had to.
And switches.
So you could.
You could.
Write out your code on a bit paper and then.
Put it in like the old.
Always.
I don't that.
But other than that, I was a mainframe programmer.
So I didn't.
I didn't really want.
Oh, and the BBC micro everyone of those.
But.
But other than that, I didn't have any.
Any truck with the.
With PCs until about.
2002 three.
Someone like that.
Didn't buy one myself till about 2005.
So.
So a lot of that is a closed book.
And I'm.
I don't know.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It's.
It can.
I can see the.
The pleasure in some of these things.
Certainly.
I would certainly talk about.
The BBC micro.
With anybody's.
To talk about it.
But.
But.
But.
And I can get.
That's.
It's a big thing.
The retro computing.
World.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Quite a lot regularly on.
So don't get me wrong.
I understand that I'm the exception to the ruler.
Everyone remembers.
Yeah.
Every memory is just.
Too.
Too bad.
I'd love to hear more episodes about retro commuting and.
Why you're interested.
Why, you know, keeping the history alive, yeah, I can kind of understand that, but it would be a terrible tragedy if the sorts of old systems
Completely vanished absolutely. Yeah, so you know from the historical side of it. I'm very enthusiastic
But I don't have any great desire to work on one myself
I would I wouldn't find this I didn't find a relaxing at the time and I definitely would not find a relaxing now
not so yeah
Anywho next day
We had Linux in was season one episode 10 the pipe Python bumper part one, and this is where
They
The two lads were discussing Martin was going through Python and well actually both of them are talking about
Why Python basically
Martin's learning it was the message I took away had been learning a few months, so he was
He was still being convinced. I felt but it wasn't quite clear
Martin's audience audio is so low. I can't it just appeal to my hearing
So I don't know what quite what he's doing, but it tends to turn away from his mic. Maybe or something get very quiet
I'm not sure I'd really could do with
Yeah, increasing the gain and his if they've got two different channels. I don't know how they're recording it, but
Possibly recording locally and bumping up his audio because I also am really struggling to hear what he's saying
It's some really interesting stuff that talking about that
Yeah, when you when you get to get to hear it and trying to fill in the gaps between the bits
You don't need it sounds plans most interesting. So I'm enjoying the show and
Gido who I can only presume as Gido fan Rossum
Says nice episode on a weird language python as ancient have you ever heard of rust?
Yes, I thought I thought monochromec had been
Pushing rust from first show. What does he just talk about on the second one? I'm not sure
He sees a he's a rust fanatic I think is me apparently yes
So the following day we had Zen Flotor 2 with FFS 2
Pukieta encryption and UIDs and a 9 volt battery. I talk about converting my Dell i3 at 6 blah blah blah
and
Let me see anonymous listener says security is hard. So basically this is about
About the Dell many 10 which sounds like a really nice laptop actually discovered that he could boot us and
You know various different types of data encryption. So anonymous sister security is hard
I think you overstated the security aspects of read only file systems
Even if you set it to read only at the block device level
It won't stop a root kit or kernel exploit from writing to the drive
Some USB drives SD cards and occasionally hard drives came to support device level read only mode
But even then they almost all had right will firmware that could be maliciously modified by software on the host see bad USB
The only consumer hardware. I know of that supports anything close to physical write protection is CD-Rams and
Even most CD-ROM devices keep their firmware on a rightful flash chip
Most of these are advanced attacks that the average person will never have to worry about but worth keeping in mind
Read only root file systems are mainly meant for resilience against power failures and
simple
Unprivileged malware, but it's not meant to provide any true security against sophisticated attacks
That's why we have UEFI secure boot interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a viewpoint. I've never encountered before
Very interesting
Gumnos says open BSD on a mini 10 I've got open VSD on mini 10 as well
I love it, but the graphics are slow on the GMA 500 chip. No pulse
Soulbow driver
So it falls back to using visa does yours have the same chipset and did you find accelerated drivers for it?
Or did you just use it at the console where it's pretty snappy?
I've upgraded mine to the maximum two gigabytes of RAM put a newer SSD in it and
Replace the BCM wireless card which never worked reliably with an atheros, but it's a wonderful little unit. Thanks to the episode
Cool stuff
How open are role-playing games? This was something that I didn't even think I need to worry about
but Magnalu and Tatoo seem to
think it's a good topic for a show so fine
Actually was a good topic for a show. It's very interesting. It's strange that they
Took this change in direction to kind of produce the open game license
But it is kind of cool and after the show because of the or a little rewind
Because Tatoo is a very nice person and has is now running five. I think T&D games
He's running a separate one for my kids and one of their friends and
my son Patrick has got they he got they
full Monty manuals for
for his birthday last year and
But his friend doesn't have anything so this here is the
Are we able to send him this document?
that
Tatoo produced so he at least has something that we can read
When I said he has sent it if we'll be sent by the time you
This because I completely forgot to send it but no that I've been reminded I will send it off
Yeah, it's I hadn't realized there were so many levels to this and so it was quite a
Quite a revelation as far as I was concerned
It was it felt very much like the
You know the free soul for our licensing thing that this is how they approach it and
Tatoo mentioned that there were true inspiration from the GPL for
How you approach it and I think it's a fair
Affair system
Seems to be more tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah
So
opposing views and tattoos
One of the few controversial shows this month
This was interesting because
my wife has tattoos and
I don't and
It was more or less wind eagle was taking my side and
his wife
I had the same as my as my wife and the funny thing while the funny thing is that my wife had all these tattoos prior to them being
You know the tattoo popularity and is now quite annoyed that something this was
Was you you know unique to hers now become
More popular, but yeah, she's never wanted me to get it to to the
No, no, I said to I found it fascinating too because of the the
Distinct difference between the two viewpoints and I I sympathize with wind eagle
In fact, I made a comment to that that thanks and I shall read tattoos comment and then
You can read yours and I will comment some more
tattoo
Team Mrs. Honeycomb
You only guess one by the in life so why not decorate it in
In answer to the you only a one by the in life I
Why
What did I do in it did Morris says? I said I have an aversion to tattoos
If I could have signified
My surprise that being wrote in that that sentence that I would have done but I could anyway very interesting discussion
I said it made me think a lot about the subject and I was a kid in the 1950s 60s tattoos weren't cool
Size society I grew up in which was working class
Great London and then Norfolk was not supported
Now we think that people of lower class in quotes had or at least that was my impression
I tried to shed as much this type of attitude and prejudice as I can but I still don't find myself wanting a tattoo
I have no problem with anyone else choosing to have them though and in some case I admire the judges
They've made never voice this opinion to my kids as far as I know but neither of them were keen on the idea of having tattoos when I asked
Recently that was the prospect of making a permanent bad decision about them
Having a tattoo was certainly a factor in their choices. So thanks for a thought provoking episode. So my
Thoughts to the kids has been you know, we're discussing tattoos and stuff and
The thing about it for me is that graphic design
Bads fashions change over time you only have to look at the logos of
name brands
To look at their past like the Google logo has changed so much over time and you have that you can also have that with
tattoos. It's very difficult
For me to think of an image that doesn't
personify a era
It's and it's very difficult to put those two apart
So I said to the kids that if you are thinking of having a tattoo
I'll support you in that and not even pay for it
but do out your design and we can we can get it on a sock or on a temporary tattoo for a while
But put it in the drawer and leave it there for eight years and then come back
And then see right is that a good am I still happy with that because you know
Because then the longevity of the thing will be will be questioned and I really don't have a problem with people who
They have a vision for the tattoo in mind and they're putting it on but it's they
Is of which other tattoos seem to go on that I
Go in and I pick it from a recipe book
Yeah, yeah, it's a fashion isn't it's a it's a
The different designs of fashion says what pretty much what you just said and that was what my daughter said actually she said I
Would I would be very
Very hard it would be very hard to make a decision based on
That decision being a permanent one, you know because if it faded after
Five years or something then I can get another one then I wouldn't be supportive
That it's there for good and I may end up hating it because yeah for the same sort of reasons
Fashion would change your your viewpoint would change you you've matured you've changed in your outlook
She's you know all of those sorts of things. Yeah, it's
If I were to choose a tattoo I would go for something
Science-y or something, you know, yeah, constellation or
Something like your structure or
Covid virus or something
but yeah, and very very tiny
I have no no great desire
That said I
I really love some of the artwork I've seen on people with tattoos and you know, I
You've met me Dave. I'm not exactly. I look like mr. Conservative especially with my bitty recipes and
you go up to you know
Counter and somebody serving you and you're looking at their tattoos and this you're looking at their tattoos and
But all you have to do is say hey, no think and then boom they
they
Start telling you about the whole story on it and this side I'm going to do and this side I have over here and this is about my
This is my kids and these here. This is my wife and this is you know the
Cool stuff. Yeah, that's a plan. You've got a you've got a plan and you're
Executing it
first. Yeah
Somebody tattoo in the Chinese symbol for you hope
whatever
Yeah, yeah, somebody's button and I've seen seen people who who read read and speak and are in or whatever
Seeing these and saying oh my goodness. Do they realize that what they've written on themselves there because in many cases
Whoever's advised you to use that symbol. It's got it completely wrong or deliberately wrong. Yeah, it's really long
And they're having a good laugh at you. Yeah, it's it's not a not a good thing
My my kids are in Japan last year and in Tokyo and they went to
sort of spa place, you know with a
Onsen hot baths and stuff and that particular one if you had any tattoo whatsoever
You chucked out and you can get your money back either
No, that's very very very strongly against it. It's all the yeah, because a stuff
I think yeah
Fascinating that is yeah, yeah, it's very different
Well, the history of that was I
If you ever this YouTube channel called Jatsby, I think
Stuff I found interesting and he explained where that came from
They if you were a criminal
You got a tattoo you got marked and then they put on other tattoos to disguise these state
tattoos and then it became a tradition that the
I can have your classes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't know the details about I knew it was tended to be a yak was that
Japanese mafia. Yeah gangsters
Mark but yeah
So
So anyway enough about that that said
Yeah, I did see a tattoo recently and I know the history of it and it's a really cool emotional story
Associated with it, but when I saw it I was thinking oh my god. That's a massive Ferguson logo from the 1950s
I can never unsee that again
Probably quite cool. I mean certain circles. Yeah, yeah, but that's I and I said to the kids before and out about tattoos and stuff about graphic design that
The Phillips logo has to be most classic
Company logo ever it's you know that you know that the grid with the stars and the one-bally singles. Oh, yeah
Yeah, it's just completely timeless. You can't put a can't put an agent. I know they tried to mess with it, but
I think they've even now gone back to the original logo with the with their flowing symbols like
very
Any graphic designers listen to this shouting down the microphone. Please record a show. We shall do this
Okay, yeah, the next one was the one that was a
do
The new review and commentary. I just want to read what actually happened here
Because it's an apologies from me to them for what or two as actually going back looking at our website
It's not very clear about what is what we do and we don't do on the website and Dave and I have
Taking to upon ourselves while to be honest Dave has told me off sternly and I've gone to the corner and thought
long and hard about what I should do
so
So it was not this I'll read my comment before we read the unknowns
So it was not sent photos in two's intentions to have the show notes for the simple sod when I posted the show I added the show notes and
Tags to this episode so that changes that were made were tags
He sent in tags of Devon
Neuron
Everyone I think it is Devon correct and he sent in show notes with the show notes
I have no notes for this episode on quote so having read they
What he did send in which was the title being
Devon review and commentary and the
Summary which was Devon review plus I talked about race I
assumed that that was about the
Debian fork and
therefore I took the
They
First line from the Wikipedia article saying
Devon is a fork of devian uses cis V in this or open or C instead of system D
Which is a default in your devian releases and the Devon development team aim to maintain compatibility with other init systems in the future and
not to touch Linux from
other unique systems and
We do this quite a bit Dave
It might not be clear to people both
We
We have actually said on the mailing list and stuff about you know how we we try and tidy up notes and and you know
Fix the spelling mistakes and the grammar and and turn plain text into markdown and HTML and that sort of stuff
But we've never said it very explicitly
So yeah, as you say this there's room for misunderstanding man
Absolutely and and I to be honest, I interpreted they I have no show notes. I have no notes for this review
To be I have no notes for this review and you add them because we have said
Countless times that if there are no show notes, we will add them by their hosts
Yeah, so
Bitten says politics
This you is more about American politics politics than
Debu and Debian to be honest
Dan says do you want to read that? Yeah, yeah, Dan says purposely misleading episode for all listeners
There's there's two minutes of discussion about Debu and the main 32 are political commentary
I will no longer trust or listen to this contributor and
Then I posted an opted to the show notes
At that point, which was an edit us and I put in an edit as we do after
The show if we ever go back we normally normally not always
Put an edit in saying a significant portion of this show relates to the US Supreme Court case of
Mugerti versus Oklahoma and speculation as to popular possible grammarifications
Um, so the comment I put in to support that was of data show notes
We do not listen to show notes prior to posting to ensure the hosts are given freedom of speech shows are not moderated
with a link to that page and
We have links to we had a discussion previously about that about that on the mailing list and
the end
And at that time it was about the use of offensive language in the show which nobody
Nobody had an issue with while people had an issue with it, but it was because the show was not flagged as
There was no warning giving to the listeners about it. So at the time was
Okay, where is the show and the decision from that was the show was between the intro and the outro essentially the audio that you get
We don't moderate that we do editors. We do
Transcoded into primary PM. We
post PCM post
To a role format so that we can convert it into all the other formats
So we do edit it that way we do
Edit edited in Safari as we edit is using a script. We don't make any editorial decisions about it
And you have to be very careful which words here Dave
So we reduce it from story to monoplayer example
And sometimes we might even do true Kate silence on it
But the agreement in that episode and that was from who was it then?
Merit shades, which was to kind of think of
HPR as like a music store. So you have the
Parental warning thing on the label and you've got a safe
Inair quotes cover on the outside and then when you open up your CD you have the more
Explicit graphic material. So it was a sort of
Gentle people agreement that we would do that. So that's kind of where we are
Thing that we didn't do Dave or the thing that I didn't do specifically was update the show notes and
All the frequently asked questions and stuff to reflect that
So that's that's housekeeping that that we need to do. Yeah
To do that for sure
Drugs should I do that one you just do that?
You're one drags it all says very interesting listen
Very interesting listen probably more interesting than an episode about deviwant to be honest
Be easy says interesting but misleading title
You're entitled your political opinions, but please title your episode appropriately
I could talk about some of the accuracy of many of your statements, but I don't believe
This is the proper forum to do so no be easy because the proper forum is to submit a show. Yes, and did he
And co sends in the comic misuse of hpr hpr is an open platform. It's very troubling to find out that it's been had
Someone felt the need to troll the platform with political statements backed by doubtful arguments wrapped in a misleading title
And then the comment
So my apologies to Zemplot or two
There and ex said good very interesting things that I had no idea about
I got trolled into listening to this name
Said
Title should be a short deviwant review so I'm allowed to post this here in a full episode of my opinions on race and American politics
That's what the title should be
believes
Brian in Ohio the ruling the supreme court ruling only applies to those crimes covered under the major crime act
I don't think anyone is going to get out of paying taxes in Oklahoma anytime soon. Here's the link for the ruling
and again
Actually looking back at these comments. I think most people are just a little bit
The title was
Title could have been better because the topics themselves are
definitely of interest hackers so
Please keep these shows coming
Following day archer 72 are doing a controlled Christmas lights because it's never too early to start planning for Christmas Dave
This was greater like this
It does do some really nice notes. I like the way he lays out his notes of being being a note devotee
Yes, you see these things and a picture on archived or old
Yeah, that's without the music
It would be nice if he said what music it was so that we could play the music and see if the lights do go and sink
So yeah, yeah, it's still
Impressive thing. He's done there. I think this is right up my alley this sort of stuff. Love it
Okay, keep them coming keep them coming
next day matchbox restoration part five
Uh, and this is
again more
From Tony Hughes and you would want to have a look in the show notes
This is really coming along
Bobbling of his paint didn't work out very well
No, that was strange, isn't it? Yeah, he sprayed over it again, and it was all right. Absolutely perfect
Yeah, he had been very upset about it
He just kept going and it was fine
And he was even able to clean up that yellow tint from the plastic windscreen and stuff
Yeah, yeah, and he covers it in a sort of vanished material
To get get a good finish on it. So fantastic. Yeah, really
This is a this is an example of
Something that if you told me
You know in a pub back in the days when people went to pubs to
Remember that I just did you used to go to a pub granddad? Yeah, I used to fly in an airplane. No
Ha ha ha ha ha
Yeah, I knew um
Yeah, nine years time when they've got all the uh the
The Vaccines and everything we've wondered what are you on about
We're in coldven time at the minutes for historical reference. Uh-huh
Uh-huh, following it, yeah yeah, that's one of these
These little little da-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-rebooting speech module
That's one of these
shows that you don't think you've got to be interested in and then find yourself looking forward
as thick hit your feed. Yeah, yeah, there's something about watching somebody doing a
complicated and skillful thing, but it's always fascinating, but like standing beside a
building site, watching people doing what they do. I just had the road dug up outside here and
I've just installed a fiber along the pavement here and I spent a goodly time
yesterday when they were doing stuff, just watching what they were doing, you know,
and you're not really interested for it's perfectly acceptable to do this. Yeah, yeah, it's
some old things that come over. I didn't go near them, because poor guy, he never gets out.
I'm just looking at the window, they don't even look up, exactly that. Look at that old
so-and-so looking at us. Yeah, you must be remembering the times when he could do things like this. Yeah.
Yeah, so no, I just find that sort of thing fascinating. I'm sure a lot of people do too.
I do, yeah, I must admit to nippin' down and taking forward was a very whole
any haul that appears in the road. I'm down there with my camera just taking pictures.
Yeah, yeah. It amazes me, you know, and this is my own thoughts, blah, blah, blah, blah,
not necessarily those my employer or any affiliates past or present. It amazes me though that how
chaotic the street infrastructure is, like you think that I love the council must have a drawing
somewhere of here are all the sewage systems and here's all the telecom systems and here's all
the cables. It's not, you just open up the roads and fuck everything in there. Yeah, for the best
that you don't cause it really. I had a conversation with people from the gas, the, you know,
the Scottish gas company. This maybe late last year because the guy who was doing the
foundations for my neighbor's extension had come across a gas pipe, which was not a big surprise.
And I said to them, do you have a sort of master plan of where all these pipes go, you know,
from the street to the house? And he said, no, I don't have any of this. Nobody has this.
They don't even know where your water runs, where your sewage runs, or any of this.
As you sit down to the guy who put it in, you know, shortest road possible,
could be gone through 14 neighbors, you never know. A lot of them, they're making more of an
effort with, especially with the fiber cables, they're putting trackers on them because they're
not even detectable with the, you know, the metal is sort of, they're not even detectable.
I didn't notice them doing that, but they put a piece of a strip of tape, which said fiber on it.
Yeah, well, they put the gravel on top of it. I did notice that. But they wrapped around the inside
of the cables themselves. There's a little bit of ID, and they're supposed to put ID tags down
every saw often. Yeah, yeah. Well, that makes sense, though, what's going to happen in the next
company wants to put fiber in? I have no idea, because it's going to happen. I think it's going to,
there's going to be a rush for companies to come in and put optical fiber all over the place.
I'm unable to comment due to due to reasons. The next week.
I'm biting my lip here at it. Any who, speaking of people who submit your own
topics that are of interest to hackers is the Gimp, the Canvas, the Man, Ahuka.
Ah, is doing to the Gimp what he did to the Libra Office series. Speaking of which, we had
somebody today who sent in a bug about the entire Libra Office series, not downloading,
using the link on the website. And we fixed that. So thank you very much for doing that.
And yeah, we have a limited, we use the same RSS PHP script to generate the RSS for all the
feeds, depending on parameters that you put in. So by default, it's only 10 days, 10 episodes
on. And then if you want the full thing, you fold in. So I happened on that. And now the world
is a better place as a result proving things you should file bugs. And number two is that people
do value the Libra Office series. So pretty good. Yeah, yeah, that was really nice to see it.
Andrew Conway slipping in, coming in here with his maths, trying to pollute all our brains with
logic. Those formulas, even Dave, those pictures. Yep, yep. Yes. Yes.
See, I guess, can say. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yes. Yeah. Well, Andrew said in his thing, he said,
the word geodesic, what geodesic is in the context he was talking about. And he said,
oh, I don't actually know where the word comes from, the etymology. Maybe somebody would send
in a comment to do that. And of course, nobody did. And I'm afraid it was me. And after I'd written
that thought, should I really? Anyway, I did. So I said, hi, Andrew, regarding geodesic, I found
some answers here. And I pointed them at the site, etym online, which is a great source of this
sort of stuff. Geodesic, the word is from geodesi, which is, which means surveying. I think it's
Greek. I didn't give every tiny detail from the site you can go and look if you need to. Geodesic
is built from, I don't know how to pronounce it, ge, ge, or something, which is the same as
the root of gear and another word pertaining to the earth, day in, which means to divide. So it's
dividing, dividing the earth. And there's, because that's just my limited summary, have a look at
etym online site for geodesi for the full description. And I say to Andrew, enjoying the series,
more please. And sesame mochot says special thanks. I've enjoyed listening to your last two
shells. You presented a very clear introduction to the concept. It's amazing how much
and apparently small topic can unfold into something so complex and interesting. On a tangent,
but don't see what they did there. She did there. I'm doing exactly this calculation for a project
to work. And this episode showed me a simpler and more easily explained way to do it. There you go.
I'm making a difference. Yeah, absolutely. We need more these sorts of things.
So the following day, the 28th, we had quarter share from the audiobook club and 5150 is still with us
for this one. Enjoying these, actually, with sadness in my heart and joy at the same time. Yes,
indeed, indeed. This was 2015. It was what I made. But somebody mentioned the year
and they were talking about it, I think. So that's a, that's a, that's amazing.
A bit of a back dog. Yeah, that's excellent. That's excellent. And quarter share, I love the series,
even a, even a 5150 did, did make a comment to how I viewed this was an ideal version of
capitalism in these books that nobody ever exploited the employees. So yes, I haven't, I haven't
heard this one. It's worth a listen, yeah. There was, did they do another Nathan Lowell book
earlier on because I think I listened to that. I really enjoyed that. But these are more,
a more techie. I didn't enjoy the other one as much as I enjoyed this series. So it's, it's
no spoilers. This guy, a space-faring guy goes into the merchant navy and works his way up and
you start with a quarter share, then a half share and then a full share and about captain share,
et cetera, et cetera. So very cool, very cool books. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely on my
list now to go and read or listen to or whatever. Yep. So the living south-laws season one,
episode 11, the Python bumper part, this time, it's the second half. So very good. Can't argue with
us. Yeah, no, it was. It's, I think we've covered a moderate number of things about this.
And yeah, this is where I heard the discussion about Rust, which, yeah, it's really good,
really good. And they are actually looking through some of the, whatever these PPs stand for,
which are their enhancement proposals or something, aren't they? Yep. Things are going to be
changed in Python in the near future. So yeah, and another case of looking in depth at the
where language is developing, which is interesting. Yep. So following show was another one from Zen
Flutter 2. And this time I didn't edit anything. The title is follow up on HPR 3122 and more,
percent more undescribed. And I just liked this episode for the following reason.
The link to that video that you put in that song was in my head for ages, ages, ages, ages,
and ages. And I can't even look at it now without thinking of the same, the same song.
Well, I know, I also followed this up because I was intrigued and this was very,
a very popular song in my hometown. I'm not sure what era that was from, but the way
Astrid Gilberto sings it on the various YouTube versions, is it? They have another singer here,
does a wonderful job of it. And it was very odd. She seemed really awkward, whereas the thing that
was released as a great hit record at the time was phrased quite a bit differently. You know,
I mean, the phrasing in relation to the music, she sort of lost the beat a little bit in the YouTube
thing I saw. I think she was very, very nervous. She was sort of the only person around who could
sing it, apparently. She's the wife of the composer or the band leader, or I'm not sure exactly what
the relationship was, but it's quite fascinating. And it's a strange song, isn't it? It's
quite a huge doll over the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think we should
do. No, no, no, no, no, you should have to take our comments and then try and extrapolate them
to the answer thing. Yeah, Jan says Zenflotr2 asked for comments on explicit or not high Zenflotr2.
This show in question came into my podcast to showing the following title,
Duvuan Review and Commentary. I got the impression that show will be about Duvuan and not knowing
at the time what Duvuan might be. After listening, I asked myself why you did two topics under
one headline, me not seeing the connection. I'm pretty sure the HBR folks noticed that too and
might have bothered Duvuan and Comment if each topic were put into a show of its own. Thanks for
providing the content Zenflotr2, Jan, lacking knowledge of English. Well, that is perfect English
as far as I'm concerned. I think it's pretty much either, you know, laborless,
correct, or split into two shows and don't laborless. But if you don't want us to add that
to your show notes, then put it in the show notes. High Edmying, you know, generous with guys,
Ken Dave, whatever, don't edit the show notes. Tell us we're not psychic and we don't listen to
the shows beforehand. So that is something that we cannot, that I'm not going to deviate from
for two reasons. One, HBR is a show of peers and we all have as much right to put on the shows
anybody else and you can all say my show is good, bad or ugly, but it's my show. So I shouldn't
judge Dave shows. Dave doesn't judge where the my show goes up. So that's that. Second thing is the
weird, safe harbor provision where you're protected from, you're protected from the content on your
server, so long as it's the responsibility of the other person, blah, blah, blah. You're
knowingly don't know that there's copyright infringement content going on there, which is
actually the only reason he mentioned in that in this episode about John Colp. I don't think it was
John, it was a weird Dutch guy, what's his name? You're in. You're in. Pretender to ignore us
at I'll kind of obviously source and then yeah. He's doing okay, obviously he's having trouble
with this with his situation. He's cocooning at the minute. But when this is this covert thing
hopefully dies down a smidgen who will meet up for a few beers and something to eat, keeping
safe distance as we will do. That's come soon, yes indeed. But in that show, the issue there was not
that he had copyrighted material, well that was his problem, but it was that the material he told us
that there was no copyright material in there, so we couldn't and I wasn't willing to take that risk
because but he could have done, you know, somebody else wants to take over from me, that's absolutely fine
too, I don't care. So do you want to do the next comment? Yes indeed, Brian and Ohio says
Supreme Court ruling, quite entertaining is Zen Flota channeling 5150. I call it quilt logic,
pieces sewn together that sometimes are beautiful and sometimes end up as pieces relegated to have
been in the attic. As far as the ruling, the Supreme Court ruling only applies to crimes covered
under the Major Crimes Act, so all the other Oklahoma's not existing anymore, it doesn't apply,
is the link to the ruling and it gives a link to a PDF. Read the first paragraph, all time show
people in the UK including occupied Ireland, don't care about Oklahoma, the reservation or
electoral college or all the real threats to their own sovereignty that exists from the German Empire.
Keep the shows coming, they are if nothing else entertaining, PS, editing the show notes,
it's not editing the content, I suspect all show notes are somehow to fit formatting scheme,
you have minutes to use. He's poking a stick there. Yeah, it's a bit sharp and it's going
in several directions. I think it's a bit tongue-in-cheek there, we're Brian, but
he's pretty much on the menu as far as the editing and stuff is concerned, but we need to be
very, I'll need to be a lot more explicit about what we're doing under work circumstances and
things, that will help, I think. Occupied Ireland, do you know what I found out recently,
obviously I come from the Republican or history is all about the great battles and
independence and all the rest of that that we had, and you know they're invading that these
people were planned, put in plantations in the north, but if you go back a few hundred years
before that, they were a few thousand years perhaps, then the people in Scotland, the scots themselves
were tried up Irish people from Ulster who went and invaded Scotland. Yes, yes, yes, you plan to,
you planted people back who were here before, you know, the history is never as
culture dry as you think it is going to be. No, no, the tendency to simplify it,
sometimes just to make a point is strong, but it doesn't fit with reality very well.
Well, actually, the only way I can read it is propaganda by the education system in Ireland,
what we learned was balanced in all facibles. I was reading a book on, that we had to study,
again, it was one of the few books that survived the great fire that my father had
burning all my books from school and my notes five years. Not that a picture, not that a picture,
but it was pretty balanced all in all the history that we got, but if you were down in the
pop, you got a very different version of history, do you know what I mean?
Woodside, it would be the word that I'd be looking for, until Jack Charnton and then everything changed.
Yeah, I'm afraid I know so little, I don't think we were given much information.
And I've not gone searching for it much. Yeah, but it's quite easy, you know, one essentially
Ireland, we were oppressed, we kicked out the English, are we great? Do you know?
Well, what do you got to do? Yeah, interesting stuff. Well, actually Irish history is quite
depressing because it's, there are, we got invaded and then things were quiet for a while,
and then we got invaded again, and then things were quiet for a while, so we got visited again.
But that's actually pretty close to the history of England as well, to be brutally honest.
Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, but it's sold in a slightly different way, I guess, in the English case.
It's, yeah, it's edited very, very effectively. Yes, history, interesting, fascinating topic, but
you, it's a bit like your news, you need to be getting it from more than one source in order to
to get a full understanding of what actually went on. Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's,
it's good to have a word a lot of modern news and find a good source if you possibly can.
Yeah, more quick tips. This is operator, and I think he just records stuff, and then when he gets
three or four, he puts them together and sends them in, which I'm very happy about. Yeah, yeah, I think
I quite like his, his approach to this, yeah, it's just, it's completely random, yeah, suddenly you go,
oh, I can tell people about such and such, and bam, off he goes, and yeah, and a lot of them are really
really very good. Yeah, and it's all very good to some of the very relevant to me.
They warn about anything that's got Google, um, Google phone thing, what you call it, Google
the Google, where you got a Google phone number, and it's the free VoIP service.
That's completely and totally American based, so of no use to anybody else. Yeah, yeah,
which is annoying in all ways, some of the cool stuff that you could do with that.
So I just want the, I'm just going to comment that the show up to movies 20 minutes late to miss out
the, the, the, the, the unwanted content, shall we say, um, wow, that's great. I, I knew this,
um, I haven't been the cinema now for a long time because I hate all the crap, but,
yeah, I used to, when the kids would ask me to, to go to the place, I used to go and take a,
take a book and try and sit the other way around, and have headphones on, so I didn't have to
listen through all the drivel that, that you was, the spewed in your direction before you even got
to the, the film that you weren't, you weren't, you probably didn't like very much anyway.
But yeah, it's a, it's a hateful, hateful place, I really did test it. I don't want to go back
to a cinema ever in my entire life. I love the whole thing, I even love the ads, I just love
the whole experience. Don't get too much, but, and ever since movies started being computer games
on a white screen, it just ruined it for me. Yeah, yeah, we, we did have fun going to the Glasgow
Science Centre when my kids were a bit younger, which has got one of those, um, 3D screen
thingies, you know, the, the sort of great big bowl shape thing that you sit in front of. Yeah,
nice, that is amazing, that, that's, that's about the only thing I like now, getting old and crudity.
There was one comment, um, there are five comments and three previous shows, Dave,
would you like to deal with them? Or shall I? I think there's only one that we need to cover
because the other one is, where is it? Okay. So, Adel P on CJDNS and
Yirhud Züritzel by, um, I thought your views were, so this is a comment by Huma Sam.
Sam? Oh, indeed, and those comments from the show, show from 2009, 1903. So, ah, that's
probably why it's one of the, last year. And it was, uh, Holden P talking about CJDNS and drag,
Ygg dragsel. Okay, you do the comment then. Mr, I've had higher education.
I remember this, this particular version of Linux coming out and everybody's saying,
how the hell are you supposed to say that? Is the name of the tree or something that, uh,
you find in Valhalla or something like that, something to do with the Norse mythology?
Anyway, enough. I collect stupid facts that are no used to man or beast and they sit in my head
and push out all the useful things. You do, uh, do a sure about them and then they're done.
They won't go away, they won't go away. Anyway, I thought your views were interesting, he says,
um, it was, I was particularly interested in how you highlighted that CJDNS was going to be
monetized and Ygg dragsel was not at least yet. I've read about CJDNS, Ygg dragsel and IPFS, and I'm not
sure exactly how all of these overlap. My limited understanding is CJDNS, and Ygg dragsel
are just the network, but IPFS is the network person network storage system. I don't understand
how IPFS network finds things or works. Sure, it uses a hash, I get that, but the,
the mechanics are finding the hash, how it determines what pieces of multiple copies it root
back and how I, and how I don't get yet. It would seem to me that if we could get something
like a, you dragsel or the network that could have multiple encrypted hops like i2p or tor,
then have a store like IPFS, but you could choose what data you mirrored like torrents or IPFS or
where we could really have a kick out so open network. Anybody, anyone could publish on anonymously
and people could choose not to mirror some of the more CD parts of the darknet. I think these are
coming together. I wish it were faster. Interesting. Good comment. Yeah. I do vaguely remember
IPFS being discussed by. I don't remember much about it. Not familiar with zero net at all.
Interesting. Sam should do shows. So we covered that comment. We covered that comment. We covered
that comment. Amazon. This is about Linux in those season one episode nine postgres and brux
mom gen. Sorry. The Amazon product based on postgres age is called redshift based on parcel.
That's interesting. Maybe a parcel. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, parcel.
Probably. Bruce. Bruce mom gen was being interviewed on that show, I think. He's the representative
from postgres. Sure. Good to know. Nice for the feedback. So milling this discussions. Nothing
controversial. They're at all at all at all. There was a call. Anybody wanted to join the D&D
game on UTC Wednesdays? That has been, I think, that's too late now. So we have this question.
I'll read up my thingy to the mailing list. Fine. Most of the shows we processed
require us to make some level of modifications to get them posted. This ranges from fixing tags
to a complete rewrite of the show notes or verifying whether the intros or outros were actually added
or not. Each modification that we make means that it requires more human intervention and
prevents us from being able to completely automate the upload process. In addition, there is a
non-trivial amount of time needed to fix these issues. This can range from a few minutes to an hour
or more for her show. And with 260 shows a year, this mounts up. We normally don't contact hosts
about these issues, as it is usually quicker to fix the issues and composing an email, waiting
for the reply that may never come. For the most part, our experience has been that the hosts are
more than willing to fix these issues if they are aware of them. As part of the ongoing steps
towards automation would host the open to the idea of getting a processing report once we have
posted the show. This would list all the issues the test tools found and the steps that we need to
take to rectify them. When did I send that out? Beginning of the month. Okay. Kind of out. Given
the... Yes, yes. Discussion that was going on. How are we going to do this? Do you want to do
Andrews? I'll do honkies. Andrew says yes, that error feedback seems like a good idea.
And then... Let me see. Honkies says, if it makes your life easier, it's a brilliant idea.
And who says, Carl D. Hammond says, I like the idea a lot. Having a list of things that didn't
go smoothly means I can make targeted process improvements for the next submission.
Okay. Claudios says, I'm done with this as well. The more and for the better, we can improve HPR as a whole.
Tyge says I'm 100% for this. X110 had a scrub detachment, which said I love the idea of as well,
doubly, so if the automated test could be well known and slid performed by the host before upload.
Do you want to do a few? Okay. Daniel Pearson says, I don't think we can do to help the process.
I'm a bit hesitant to publish when you can't change your submissions afterwards. Now, that's
interesting because I've been thinking about that. If we publish to a... Everything's in a database,
which is a bit of 1990s, to be honest. And we want to go from a database to a Flap website format.
And if it's a Flap website format, we can then check it into Git. But we can also check all the
future episodes into Git. So therefore you could check out your episode. Perhaps, perhaps, don't
inform me to this. Submit your shows that way. And then after the event, you could just check out
your own episode and then edit it and submit it back to us as a pull request or something.
So if somebody wants to have a think about how that would actually work, that would be great.
Yep. And Norris says, if the contributor agrees, could show processing fixes be published?
Could be published with the episode. It would be helpful to future hosts to see common issues.
Yeah, that would be something for the FAQ, I reckon. Because then it wouldn't be linked to a
particular show, so it wouldn't be... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah.
Yeah. And shall I do Tonys? Yep, I'll ask you to do that.
I can't help mind at all, anything to make life at HBR towers easier.
Brian says, Brian and Ohio, like the idea, great learning opportunity.
And Jason Dodd says, I'm in favor of this.
I'm in honkies. Honkies says, if it makes life easier, brilliant idea.
We just did that. I was following the thread through the main element thing, so I think that's the end,
isn't it? Oh, that's thread, yes. So I think more or less, now that we've mentioned it on this show,
we'll wait for some feedback from the people who are not on the mail list. And you should be on the
mail list if you're part of the HBR community. If you listen to this, you should be on the mail list.
It's usually fairly low, low amount of content. Brian has just ceased to operate. But okay,
if I know difference there, I guess. So join the main list. But with any HBR policy decision,
we need to make sure that people listening who are not on the mail list have an opportunity to
contribute. You can also send your, if you don't want to join the mailing list, which is HBR
at hackerpublicradio.org. You can also send it to the janitors who are misleadingly called
admin at hackerpublicradio.org. We don't really admin anything. We just oil the cugs, I guess.
That mub and bucket gets used quite often. Yeah. Yeah.
Call for shows is open. As I said earlier, we could do with, if you've got shows, it's almost ready.
If you could finish it off and upload it, that would be super duper. Kevin O'Brien noticed our
somebody out there was stealing our intellectual property, Dave. I have the lawyers on them
straight away. This weird website didn't even make an effort to hide it.
Hobby public radio, Dave. Like the only difference is hobbyists instead of hackers.
Dear, dear, dear, what are we going to do? And Alice Sinclair says,
it points to the same place as the main site. I think it's just there to help people side-step
proxies and net nanny type things that look like the word hacker. He's perfectly right.
Yes, that's why we launched it, but if anybody is forced to
and Kevin replies, let me see what's his cover. Oh, that makes sense. I guess I missed that.
Claudio and Dave says, Claudio says, that's what's behind a filter where a hacker is blocked,
and then do you want to read yours? Yes, I said, given that we receive frequently asked questions
from time to time, I've been wondering about making an NFA Q page containing the frequently given
answers, smiley face. In my, as yet very brief, searches, I came across this man, this thread,
which may be the FGA frequently given answer for the hobby public radio question
to the original decision about this 2015. Yeah, and we should also, in this frequently asked
question, I was thinking we should merge stuff, but on the other hand, I think it would be better
to have it as a kicking off place to show people where you can get the information on us,
so that we're not. Yes, I think just a sort of a map of where that stuff is.
Yes, but just maybe a brief summary of, you know, why? If you don't want to go further,
you can just get some hints here, but you want to get the gory details then follow the link.
Yeah, exactly. And that linking to that two things that I could have would have been handy to
have in the FAQ was the discussion about the expressive warning thing that mailed thread
would have been handy because it's a policy decision. So you put it on the mailing list,
we discuss it, we discuss it in community news, and then all right, we're making this decision,
then that decision has been taken here. That one and the one about Uruun and the copyright
material also would be handy to have that thread there because it's also important that say this
is 2015. Yeah, this one about how the public radio is a bit, it's non-conversial because it's just
a website that we put up if somebody is blocked. If you are blocked, you should contact me so that I
can contact these NetNanny people so that we can not blame NetNanny or anybody, but the people
who are blocking the website so we can have them update or filters. It's a lot less of an issue now
than it was back in 2050. But from time to time, it's been five years since this discussion has
occurred, so it is important as well that we re-evaluate ourselves in these decisions that we take and go
this was the policy back then, is everybody still cool with this policy now. That is
basically why I hijacked Marcus Wilson's request who is a new contributor and wanted to know
what the line for this reason we were only releasing material created exclusively for HBR,
that would be handy to have the link of the mailing list about that. So he, can I,
so I'll read his comment, I have some ideas that I wanted to provide some shows. I had a question
about the interpretation of produced for hacker public radio for this and equals for this reason
we only produce only releasing material created exclusively for HBR. Can I do a show for HBR and then share
this show to another community online radio later? If it's CC by SAI soon, so what I want to do
ask before I start working on my ideas, thank you very much. So probably best to read the entire
thread here. I reply, Marcus, if you create material and post it first in HBR then it meets the
requirements you mentioned. That means once you upload it to HBR server, you can publish it anywhere
else you like. You can ping the janitors as I've made at HBR for more technical questions as
this list goes to the community that said these questions and three other queries I had
off the mailing list does bring a fundamental question as to what HBR is.
Are we a content prediction network like YouTube or are we a podcast that random people contribute to?
Or to put it another way? Is the host addressing the internet in general or the HBR audience?
I'd like to hear your opinions of the community on this please. To which? So Kevin No Brian says
that's who a content of interest to hackers always work for me.
Now Stankdog who is one of the founders of HBR, I've always intended for this show to be
by hackers for hackers and think that most of the content should be specifically for the HBR
audience of hackers. I think it is certainly fine to mix in other shows or parts of other shows
that are relevant to hackers, but I would like to keep it 90% custom shows for HBR.
Is the community is a group community podcast is sorry it is a group community podcast
than a platform. Definitely not a network because that's what DPP hack radio was for.
That network went down and we couldn't keep enough good content coming. Now we could probably do it
both going to let that rest in peace just my thoughts and visions from the beginning.
Just some background there digital dog pound is DPP and DPP hack radio was also similar to
the infonomiccom hacker media thing which is also aggregation of feeds. Next comment Steve?
Okay Daniel person says hi people I'm a YouTube creator and create educational content
on my channel. When I feel that a subject could be explained or talked about in audio only I
repurpose that for HBR. So far I've always rerecorded the audio and focus on the target audience
doing it this way I only have to do the research once. I'm not sure what difference would be if I
created the audio for HBR first more than that it would be less rehearsed perhaps. I hope this
workflow works for you. Brian says listening Brian and Ohio listening back to old HBR episodes
there have been many show series that have seemingly been people trying out their podcasting
chops on HBR to see if hosting their own show was something they wanted to do talking to me and
the alien brothers come to mind. Some are better than others talk to me to be good alien brothers
not so good but they both helped keep the lights on at HBR so for that I am thankful.
I've never had a problem getting a slot for an episode I have produced and I always think I'm
addressing the HBR audience itself when I'm doing a show. Whatever happened to de-keep a monster
v they produced some great shows on a little side that I wasn't part of HBR but it's nice to hear
what they had to say. PS if monster b or db keep keep read this you all can't show.
Very good very good. Yolkato says there seem to be three use cases created content for zero HBR
and post only two HBR. One HBR and post first HBR then post elsewhere. Two multiple targets one
of which is HBR. Based on what Stanknov has said in response to this thread zero and one are
easily within the original intent of HBR. Two seems to require a bunch of parameters to define
on the surface I think it's fine but then again it could be abused. To better define expert
expectations I'd like to know what we would classify as abuse. The things that come to mind as
abuse. A big corporate style podcast is starting to mirror a show on HBR just to boost their own
signal. Any condition resulting in more days a week of mirrored content about the original content
produced by HBR. A media blitz targets every possible outlet including HBR in an attempt to
air content on a massive scale. The content may qualify as being of interest to hackers
but HBR is being used as a small piece in a larger campaign. Next an AI generates unique tech
content and posts it to HBR. It's valid content but is wrote and uninteresting. Next someone seeks to
silence the voices of HBR by occupying all available slots with content that appears to be
of interest to hackers. Again someone posts disinformation as this can sometimes be up to debate
it may or may not always qualify as abuse but ideally the community will eventually flag
repeat offenses and deal with the content accordingly. So that's abuse there's some examples of
abuse not abuse. A content creator posts audio programming tutorials to HBR and video plus audio
to YouTube knowing that the audiences are different crowds. Next a podcast it doesn't have money
for hosting and so posts their tech podcast to HBR and points to the media in their own RSS feed
whether or not the podcaster acknowledges HBR the head and tail of each show identified HBR
as a significant sponsor in quotes. Next a big corporate style podcast decides to mirror an
episode or two on HBR because they believe content especially relevant to our network.
This is done sparingly maybe once a month should they be contacted by HBR the podcaster
responds interacting with the HBR community on a personal level to explain why they feel HBR is
an appropriate outlet for their CC by SA content. Next a content creator produces content for HBR
but is is uninteresting and boring to listen to most of our audience skips their episodes. Next a
content creator produces content for HBR but they speak in a heavy accent and most of our audience
cannot understand what they're saying or the audio quality is poor. So Clatrice says I don't
know the best way to codify something like this. On one hand I do think it's important to have
this established officially. On the other hand I don't think everyone submitting a show needs this
level of detail. Good analysis excellent analysis. There was a signature remote as well so
okay yeah I'm reluctant so he gives zero HBR post only to HBR and two multiple targets one of
which is this HBR. So there's an expression and that's just at the bottom of the slip between
the the ship and the pier is kind of where the sun falls down and that is where we try to
where we come up with this idea that you post to HBR first and post somewhere else later
is kind of but it's so grayed area so that's why I wanted to take a step back and go are we a
podcast network is this something that we want to do versus are we a podcast community all feeding
into this one thing which is HBR the podcast and so far it seems to be that we are not a content
network we are a HBR podcast that's it if about the podcast don't have the money for hosting so
the tech podcast to HBR I would much prefer that they contact us and then we'll help them
do that via internet archive and they have their own feeds and we get them over
past bug there's plenty of ways that you can bring up a podcast absolutely on your own without
having to go through HBR and all the all the basically restrictions that we have like the you
can't choose the time because you have to share everybody else you know if you're you're not
able if you're following the guidelines and the spur of HBR there's a lot more restrictions on you
than if you just simply uploaded to to internet archive and had your own WordPress bug on
free hosting somewhere wouldn't you agree Dave yes indeed yes yeah okay but this is a good summary
I will continue on then with Jason Doddass just out of curiosity what does post first mean
airs first this would not affect me just curious to which I reply once you get the second confirmation
email back then it's on the server that's what it means so the reason for that would be I think
it's unfair if somebody has a piece of content like you say they've got their own YouTube channel but
they're they're some they've met a show and consciously they're this part of the overall show or
all of the show or some part of the show has been intended for HBR app production then I feel
it's unfair of us to have to wait make them wait three months that can occur in some cases you
know now it's only a week because we're short of shows but you you sometimes can have to wait
three months so as soon as you send it to the HBR and you got your second email back then
I need to lay in posting it is is not your fault so to speak so that's what the idea
is and Jason Dodd says got it so it could air on another platform first just as long as
posted to HBR first I'm amazed anyone listens to my shows and can't imagine any place wanting
them else wanting them but just in case Yanik says as a content maker I always produce content
for my own channel first typical selfish sorry mute button not on anyway sorry again as a content
conveyor I always produce content from my own channel first I've never seen HBR as being
an original content publisher which explains my mistake of rebranding some on my original
uh my original mistake and publishing it on HBR after it was originally published on another channel
which also explains why I've been silent for a while I will always publish on my channel first
and by doing so I will not be able to post that content HBR if I ever produce content that is HBR
compliant in the future I will gladly post it then until then I'm a silent and lurker Yanik
the French guy from Switzerland and I have to admit that ever since this incident where I
commented Yanik has this been posted somewhere else in that case what it turned out was it
it wasn't anyway because it was a reworking of some content that you had done so it completely
was fine to publish on HBR but I see Yanik as being by doing what he's doing as being a HBR
community member cemented uh then then he would otherwise be however I can see
loads of opportunities where there will be uh stuff that he can publish on HBR that wouldn't be
related to the stuff that he's doing on his own channel for example if you look at Class 2
I can never really figure out what when Class 2 decides to record a podcast whether he will
put it on HBR or whether he put it on the new world order which one I don't know how he makes that
decision but he seems to make that decision we have also had shows in the past where they offcuts
or the outtakes of the Linux logcast for instance was it a Linux logcast yeah we're posted over here
and I personally will be in favor of a collaboration with the Yanik's show which the name of it
escapes me right now makers corners makers corner that is exactly the sort of content that would be
ideal for HBR and I could see a situation where we would say Tianik we would like you to produce a
series of beginners tutorials for HBR and get a reservation from the HBR community on the mailing list
and then basically have the waiver where he on the makers corner channel they have every week
or every time they release a series on you know this is a basic resistor this is a capacitor this
is what this does and you know basically have a project on there within their show that is given
an exception on HBR we could definitely propose that sort of thing to the community I don't think
anyone would have a problem with that but that's different than than the general my issue there
would be that that would always have to go to the HBR mailing list that we would get those
sorts of things approved and this goes back to the fundamental question are we a podcast network
or are we a podcast community where we say well you know in this case I don't mind if you
sense that in but in the other case I do mind because they're relying just using us for
to get published publicity for this product that they're trying to sell it's a thin line
I don't know if you can codify it to be honest no it's hard to have two lists of
abuses and not abuses it's very comprehensive and yeah yeah it's it's a more complex issue than
the obviously obvious I think so to do yeah sorry I just my mind wandered there um
gladu says I this is in reply to tianic I don't believe you're in violation of any HBR rule
yannick appreciate the content you post and your participation in the community call maybe
you're referring to an interaction you've had privately with HBR admins I think we as a community
do need to think about what qualifies as abuse I don't think yannick is abusing HBR for instance
but I do acknowledge that someone could do what yannick is doing for a result that would look and
feel like an abuse of HBR if yannick didn't mirror exactly yes nicely put if yannick didn't mirror
some of his content on HBR I wouldn't ever have heard him because I didn't know he existed
did I heard him on HBR so there's value in mirroring some content some of the time
and that's exactly what the um the podcast recommendations thing is but that is the show that
so you hear about janik's podcast for instance Dave and you take that you contact yannick and you
say well I like to put this show on or whatever or you don't even need to if it's a cc it has to be a
great for commons podcast and you you find some great for commons podcast and you go you write a
wrapper to that and you tell the community I'm recommending this because it's a good show and blah blah blah
and blah blah and then you include a sample episode and you're good to go and you're golden
yeah yeah but I think who is that that Dave about porn I'll know when I see it abuse I know what
when I see it I can I can smell it Dave yeah yeah and also I have no problem in if we start
getting spam it's only a matter of time actually before we do getting spam episodes then we will
treat that exactly the same way as we treat all the other spam that comes in yeah yeah I mean
we're being in a day it would spam through admin and stuff so yeah and not so much on the comments
we have had but no we killed that although there was a a few weeks back there was somebody I don't
know was it this month or last month somebody was trying their best I had to applaud them
and then I banned their IP let's stop but okay yes so do you want to do the last one on this
thread which was Yannick yeah Yannick says I hate you all I'm going to go to my nuclear bunker and you
can all no that's not actually what he said indeed I don't think it was a violation the matter is
settle anyway smile face I just don't want to take any chances in the future I'm gladly post
a hbr again if on when the hbr first policy gets updated but yeah and that's that's sad really
because yeah but how do I how do we how do I propose something that somebody won't take advantage of
yeah I know I was taking I quite see where Yannick's coming from and I wasn't sure quite how to
how to handle that myself yet yeah Tony Hughes had replied
the dear cat regarding the question about content I always ask myself it's of interest hackers
in the wider sense before submitting a show and there are always first and foremost hbr shows I've
used items I've posted on my blog in the past to form the basis of a show I use my show notes
to create a blog post but the audio is always for hbr I definitely think of hbr as a podcast with
the contents submitted by like-minded individuals although in some cases as with myself it may lead
to the creation of other podcast material not for hbr or the confidence to join other shows
that's Tony being being a being a mint cast host exactly yeah definitely this has been an
interesting discussion actually and makes me think quite a lot so I think need to think quite
fundamentally about these the same puts for people yep truncated silence is taking out all
these silences by the way yeah it's my turn is it Andrew I've got Andrew Conway here
says Tony expressed my views so I won't repeat what he puts so clearly only I'd add the after a
show goes out I look to comments and other feedback to check if it was of interest to the hbr
audience if it was if it was then forms me going forward yeah that's a good point yeah but it's a
it's separate to the whether it's of interest to hackers or not is really irrelevant because
if you thought it was interesting enough then surely somebody else one other person is going to
find it interesting so yeah yeah yeah put your content on hbr if you genuinely think it's interesting
if it's spam then that fails that test so we're good to go there but this is about how do we as a
community feel we're taking you know are we going to take the money are we going to diversify and
use this as a podcasting network and the reason why it's so important is is the attitude
that I have experienced it's right you know on do you want to be clever at all Dave yes I do yes
say yes and he has he has discussed about YouTube and about the frenzy that people go into
about monetizing and stuff and he's talked about go ahead and I block my shows because I don't
care so I do it for fun and I always find it funny that YouTube is there and you have content
producers who are people who are using their platform not paying any hosting complaining that
they're not getting revenue from the people who are paying for their hosting I just find that very
weird myself yeah yeah it has developed into that hasn't it but people are actually making their
livings from from from YouTube yes but they're they're not going down to the local you know the
local TV station and pitching their show and going and paying them the you know the risk that
somebody is paying for this distribution they're who's paying for the ones and zeros who's
paying for the storage who's paying for the replication of the data across all the servers who
keep in the servers are it's Google it's YouTube and you know you could argue like
that you're that back in the 90s you would be paying somebody to host your website and you pay
for bandwidth if I put up a video my my personal website I pay for the bandwidth budget there and I
pay for the bandwidth of everybody who pulls it off so why do people think that it's okay to put
it on YouTube yeah I suppose the argument is there that they're making revenue from your content
being up there but equally yeah the whole business of the people who contribute to contribute
content to YouTube making the advertising model that Google used to make money work is is is
part of it but yeah I found myself puzzled about where the dividing lines are between these these
factors and whether you have any rights you don't have any rights at all you're just doing it because
you're a you're the product which is being used to to make money and okay you can make money
along the way if you if you have enough people interested in it but it's a very it strikes me as
an extremely fragile thing to to be putting your whole living on to be to be expecting to be
able to feed your family on the basis of yeah and for enough revenue sharing and all sorts is
fine but yeah it's just it's basically the it's and I bring that up because of the attitude of
somebody like big clive is basically I'm getting this free hosting fine rather than oh I'm not
getting the hits that I used to because somebody somebody's changed the algorithm well go get
billboards and you know put advertisements on by by ads yeah I digress I don't I don't think this
has clarified what I wanted to say just show me how I learned to stand in absolute terms I guess
well it's basically they I'd like to put I'd like to pause to show on hq or what do I need to do
that's fine versus I've got all this stuff and I want you to put it on and I
need you to do this and then need you to do that and I want you to do this and the next thing
that's that's kind of the difference in attitude and that's basically what it comes down to
at the end of the day we want to avoid being used in a way that would not not be fair by absolute terms
yeah that's why it's it's kind of important for us to decide are we a podcast network or are we
a I know I refer to us as a podcast network but we're probably not it's the tech podcast
the creator commons tech podcast whatever okay what else Dave we might as well skip over the events
calendar I guess because there's not going to be a lot of point a great deal on their tags and
summaries we've had a lot of contributions from windigo and Daniel person who between them have
contributed 81 updates which is cool we've ever managed to to get so thank you to them both
their contributions locked down and clicking in there or greatly for us that brings us down to
455 I think needing needing attention so yeah just come from memory out so only 455
shores have have not been edited yes need need need assistance so yeah so we were very happy
that was wonderful I couldn't believe it yeah that's brilliant stuff brilliant okay tune in tomorrow
this way too long this show sorry about that guys tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of
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