hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr0439.txt

Episode: 439
Title: HPR0439: TiT Radio Episode 007
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0439/hpr0439.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-07 20:40:32

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Come celebrate 40 years of UNIX at the Ohio Linux Fest from September 25th through
the 27th.
If you use GNU Linux, BSD, Open Solaris, or any UNIX or UNIX-like system, you belong
at Ohio Linux Fest.
Register free today at OhioLenix.org.
Hello and welcome to TIT Radio, I'm Monster B, and at the round table with me tonight is
Sheriff Peter G64.
Yeah, and just a word of warning, I won't be putting up with anything tonight.
I'm not in a good mood.
We got some young kid walking on your back again or what?
No talking over anybody.
Ah, or you're gone.
Do you need a deputy tonight or you got it all under control?
Yeah, I think there's that many class two.
Okay.
I have to deputize class two.
Okay, deputy class two, you're next.
Great.
Thank you.
Hello everyone.
Jayman, I think I'm going to need two deputies because I feel like hanging a few tonight.
Hello.
He has met.
Hey, howdy, howdy.
Mr. and Mrs. Zoke.
Hello.
I'm Umas Katz Tool, in just in case I got thrown in immediately into the break.
Art V61.
Hello.
Hello.
330.
Hello.
And Lord D.
Good evening everyone.
So I'm a very professional, didn't he?
Yeah, it did.
I'm commonly so.
What does need to be the ensemble preview that?
Because the last few shows I've decided to enjoy some beverages while recording so.
Kind of gives us the window quickly.
We did get one feedback this week.
This is from, I think, episode five because episode six didn't area yet.
They got a new management over there at the HPR.
So the show won't air into what Monday?
Correct, Monday, the 17th.
But this feedback is from David Jordan.
He wanted to thank us for mentioning tiny, tiny RSS.
I think there was Zoke's topic.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I actually logged into that thing.
So why did David Jordan just using it now?
I don't think he used it yet since he sent a email.
He just said he's going to install it.
Yeah, it's pretty nice.
I mean, I'm not going to use it.
But I was impressed.
Yeah, I'm having trouble making it update and crack all the latest information of the seeds.
I have the same seed in Google Reader and the tiny, tiny RSS.
And tiny, tiny RSS said that we're like 63 new stories and Google Reader said 200.
And there's a link that you meant to run to force it to update.
And you can write cron job it and stuff.
And I run it in the website because the cron job's just like a W get us.
So it's just, you know, load this particular paste to force it.
And it just sits and loads and loads and loads and loads.
And you know, I've let it go for like hours.
And it doesn't ever seem to finish.
Wow.
So I'm not sure what it's going to do.
Yeah, I've got to dig around with it if anyone else is having the issue.
Yeah, that's its primary function.
So for it not, it's a bit of a problem.
Yeah.
Let's have, I'm going to see if I can find a way around that.
Yeah, I can dig on your end or something.
Hopefully.
Did anyone else get any feedback?
I don't think so.
Okay.
I might have, but I probably used Serpentip for my own podcast.
Yeah, that's all right.
All right.
All right, I found this one today.
It's called Slack Mini Server.
This project's been going on for two years.
And I just found out about it.
It's a Linux Server distro designed to be configured and maintained through a web interface
like Webmin, 2.6.29.6 kernel.
And it's based on Slack where it's 13 RC2.
And you can run it from a live CD or you can install it to the hard drive.
I don't know.
I've seen this.
I was like, wow, that looks pretty cool.
I'm going to try it.
And I was looking at the features and it comes with asterisk.
1.6.1.
Wow.
Yeah.
And Apache 2.2.12.
I think that's the latest one.
But it looks pretty cool.
Well, that is interesting.
What's the website on that mini-slack.com or something?
Oh, let me throw it in the chat room.
Very useful.
Mini-Server Slack or something.
Yeah.
It's called Slack Mini Server.
And the web address is sms.it-ccs.com.
Wow.
That's kind of cool.
And it's been around for like two years, huh?
Yeah.
Is this distro based on Slack?
No, it's like where?
Like where?
Wow.
That was weird.
And it's, I mean, it's obviously cutting edge.
I mean, cutting edge is like wherever it is.
I mean, that's a really recent, that's the most recent kernel.
Now, does that let you save to, if you just run it from a live CD,
save your configurations to a USB thumb drive or something similar?
I just found this one today.
If you go to the download section, it has two downloads, a live CD,
which it says you can run everything from the live CD,
or there's an installer CD that they recommend.
And I guess the installer is taken from Slack.
Only the installer.
That's pretty cool.
But you know, all that is is a boot-inst.h.ph in Slack.
It's just like a little shell script.
You're right.
And in fact, it sounds like it can use that LVM modules with Slack users.
There is some similarity there.
But I'm not sure if you download the live CD if you can install it from that.
I'm not sure.
So you might have to get a separate CD to install it.
No, it says in the fragment, we ask questions.
Slack mini-server can be installed from the Lord.
Oh, that's good.
Or a USB disk.
Yeah.
How big is the file that anybody looked?
300 megabytes for the ISO?
Yeah.
You should be able to run it off of USB then, right?
Yeah, it says that too, I think.
And it tells you in the fragment the ask questions you can.
I think I saw that.
It would be pretty neat to do.
Yeah, how do I install it to a USB flash disk so you can?
All right.
That's all I have to say on that one.
You want to go next, Lord D?
I've got the day is from a website called Create Digital Music Common.
I'll post the link here in the channel.
And it's just right up by a guy named Kim Skone, or it might be a female.
It's a guy.
Okay.
And his switch from OSX over to Ubuntu as a person who's created techno for 10 years.
It walks through a lot of what he's done and learned along the way.
And kind of the thing that I like the most about this whole article,
if you scroll down towards the end, it's a nice long list of links, different things,
different projects he uses, I would assume, and so on.
All right.
I just like that he's switching from Mac to Linux.
That's just not a switch that you hear about as often as one should.
That's a question not for a music.
All of the arty-farty stuff, if you make any music,
if you do video, if you do the Photoshop stuff,
it's all meant to be down on the Mac because you have the arty stuff.
Of course, Linux audio sucks.
Yeah.
I mean, where I used to work, they were PCs everywhere.
And the only one department which had Mac was the one that did all the graphics design, basically.
Yeah.
It's a weird niche they seem to have found themselves in,
which I don't think is deserved at all.
It's just cool to hear someone doing creative stuff on Linux and not shirking at it.
I assume he probably has quite a fair amount of budget to spend on his setup too.
I mean, he probably...
That was actually one of his complaints and the article was he got tired of the upgrade costs every couple years.
Well, that I'm not surprised about.
But I mean, that's great.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot, a lot of money.
Maybe he's probably still spending a lot of money,
but just not as much as he would have on Mac's setup.
I imagine.
One of the things he mentioned as an article was that he had set up a Dell netbook
as a backup system.
And if I remember how it goes right in the story,
his Mac hard drive died on him at a show,
so he switched over to having to use the netbook,
and has kind of just made it a permanent switch now.
Yeah, that's really neat.
I saw that link somewhere.
I haven't read the...
I posted it in the channel about a week ago,
in the last week.
Probably where I saw it.
I definitely would look at it more carefully.
I like the story here.
He's talking about how one machine was looking a bit older
and he was thinking about buying a new one.
But in the end, he went and bought a refurbished Dell Studio 15
put a bun to on it,
set it up for town production and business administration.
The total cost was around $600 for the laptop,
plus the donation to the software developer,
a far cry from the $3,000 price tag,
and weeks for my time it would have cost me to stay locked into Apple.
Wow, nice.
Yeah, you just don't hear about that kind of stuff.
That's really cool.
Of course, the much publicized story in two weeks
will be going back to Mac,
because they cut a material or something.
Also, in the story, it lays out...
He's been working with computers since the 70s
and how he was seeing there.
He's actually at one point wrote in assembly language
his own digital frequency on a Kim-1 single board micro computer.
Well, that makes sense,
and that's how he was able to make sense of Linux sound systems.
I've got to read this bit out.
He was talking about how details like not having a preview
on the right-hand panel of the Finder window slowed them down.
A bunch on the other hand feels more like an operating system may for grown-ups.
Yeah, I totally agree with him.
I cannot.
But a lot of people actually do.
But, I mean, yeah, that Finder is grossly underpowered
and after I started using KDE or even GNOME,
it was just like, wow, what was I missing all this time?
And he even has down at the bottom a request right before the link section I talked about.
It's important that kernel and audio application developers
want to ensure all audio creation software for Jack
who improves the update tools for Jack,
make it easy for musicians to install,
and install, configuring, and use three ships distros
with real-time kernels already tested and configured for use.
It goes on with some more there,
but I like the fact that instead of just blasting Linux audio
as, you know, this is all screwed up.
He's like, look, some things that could help to be ironed out.
This is the guy who doing professional audio creation and production.
So, this is the guy who would know from a user standpoint
that you're going to need.
Yeah, I mean, that's an important perspective to have.
He knows what he's talking about from both the creative
and apparently the technical end of things.
So, yeah, he is exactly what people need.
I mean, in terms of the developers,
I mean, he's the guy who they can turn to one way or another
whether they just read his blog or interact with him,
you know, via bug reports or email,
just, you know, exactly what do you guys need?
You know, what's practical here?
What's not practical?
That's really cool.
And who is this guy?
What does he do?
Tim Cascone.
He does electronic music.
He worked with David Lynch on a couple of projects,
apparently, like Twin Peaks,
Wild at Hard, just like sound design or whatever.
And I guess he did what, like techno or whatever,
or electronic at some point.
He worked with Brian Eno, you know, for ambient stuff.
He does in the country with his three kids.
He might have done some country western tinge to things.
Brian Eno has a fairly wide variety of sonic texture,
so you never know.
And I just posted a link into the IRC
to his Wikipedia page.
And then I noticed over on the Wikipedia page,
the instrument he lists is laptop,
XMSP, C-Sounds, synthesizer,
field recorder,
our door, and hydrophone.
Oh, wow. So he's got some Linux-y stuff on his Wikipedia page already.
So that is fully nice to see that, you know,
if someone who knows who this guy is
and wants to emulate what he's doing,
they're going to see the list of stuff he does and see our door.
And it's a gateway into using the good stuff.
Well, let's just hope somebody like him keeps promoting it.
More so than promoting it,
just working with like developers
to get it right up where it needs to be.
I think that's the real win here, I think.
It's just to have someone with his experience.
And I guess, I mean, I've seen this story on a couple of different places.
So I think people are kind of noticing the story.
So, you know, that'll be good,
like I say, for developers to talk to him or whatever.
People will listen to what he needs
or what he and people doing,
what he's doing with me to get on Linux.
That's a really cool thing.
Yeah, and he can talk about the money he's saved.
I mean, you know, he's reputable.
He's a reputable person.
You know what? Honestly, I don't even think it's about the money
as much as it is about like all the different formats.
I mean, I don't know that much about the music side of things,
but just from video side of things,
you got so many different formats and stuff.
And, you know, Mac wants you to use their formats.
Did you design ones you to use their formats?
Someone else wants you to use their format.
And at least with free software.
It's a lot more.
It's either here using any format you want,
or, you know, here's some formats that you can support
on every different platform you could possibly imagine,
because we opened it,
and you can compile it so that it works on whatever you are.
I mean, I think that's a big, big part of this.
Well, it'd be nice to follow and see how this works out.
Yeah, that would be really cool.
All right.
Jordi, good story.
Let's move on to Clot 2.
Yes, my story tonight is about the Ohio Linux Fest,
but it's not abstract or anything.
It's actually...
We've got lots of speakers.
Well, actually, I think they have all the speakers nailed down now
at the Ohio Linux Fest.
And one day, Friday, September 26th,
there's going to be something called the early,
the early penguin's track, or something like that.
And the point is that it's basically a full day of talks
that are free for everyone.
So whether you've paid your supporter fee
so that you can go to the talks on Saturday
or whether you're just going for free,
you can come in on Friday and get a lot of really cool talks,
no matter what,
which I think is really great for a festival,
because, you know, one of the big things about Linux
and free software and stuff like that is that it's accessible
to everyone, right?
So if you have the festival celebrating it,
it's cool that they let anyone in,
you know, but obviously not everyone gets to go to the talks,
gets to pay for that.
So it kind of takes a kind of knocks out the accessibility,
at least in my opinion.
But having a whole day of talks that are free
and that anyone can get into whether they've paid money or not,
I think that's a big deal,
and kind of very much in the spirit of free software and stuff.
And this is going to be on Friday.
What time?
It starts at 1300 with open street map people
talking about open street map,
and then somebody in Class 2 is going to be talking about
editing, video, and blender or something like that,
and then Ilan from scale going to talk,
and then at 1700,
there's going to be a podcaster,
hosts, and listeners unite,
and that's going to be an hour or 55 minutes of sort of,
I guess it'll be sort of a version of feather meeting,
or maybe we'll do like a live show or something,
but so far people like Monster B from Linux Cranks,
330 from Linux Cranks,
Aaron Newcomb from the source,
the video, the video, the cast,
all the guys from Tilt,
as far as I know,
Davey, it's from a lot of Linux links.
At least we will all be there,
at 1700, and hopefully people will come,
meet, talk,
maybe like I say do a live show or something like that,
or whatever, you know,
I think that'll be cool.
And it just keeps going until I think
1,200,
and then after the pre-show party begins.
So is this going to be at the actual convention center?
Is it going to be at the hotel?
I'm pretty sure it's at the hotel,
I could be wrong about that,
it might be at the convention center.
I'm pretty sure it is at the Hyatt Regency,
let me see.
I'm pretty sure it's at the high,
I could be wrong about that.
I think it was the Hyatt,
the bitching about Wi-Fi that wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Still, that's going to be a,
I guess, an issue still.
It's just that the location,
I don't know how much I'm supposed to say,
so I guess I want this numbers,
but they charge like,
when I saw the amount of money that they charged
for internet service,
it was just phenomenal,
and then you're thinking,
well why don't we just bring in our own signal, right?
Well, don't kick you out if you do that,
or whatever,
I guess that's a public relationship,
or a business relationship,
so Paul, you can't really do that, so.
Well, this is the hotel,
they're charging like 10 bucks a night, right?
Yeah.
That's not too bad.
$10 a night for what?
For internet.
Yeah.
I thought that was if you were
staying there,
and it was over 100 a night,
for the room.
No, well, maybe.
But I mean,
we're everyone's going to have,
like a lot of people in that room anyway, I think.
I mean, I would imagine,
I mean, that's what I'm going to do, so.
You know, one person who's not going to be a little less this year
that was there last year?
I know.
I know Bacon,
actually posted about it on his blog,
in the 11th,
that he wasn't going to be attending this year.
No, but it talks this year really good, actually.
I frankly, I don't know.
I didn't need to see Jono Bacon talking about community again, you know?
So I think it's actually pretty good.
There's like a lot of people,
there's a lot of people talking that,
I don't know, I haven't heard from before, you know.
I mean, names that I've not personally seen.
Some names that are just really, really cool,
like the Doug McElroy guy who's going to be doing, I guess, the big keynote.
He was like literally working at Bell Labs,
and was on the team, you know, shortly after Unix was created.
He invented the Unix type.
I mean, and he's going to be doing the keynote.
I mean, that's huge.
You know, that's going to be really, really cool to hear from someone
who literally helps intent the, you know,
the system like our system is like.
What was your guy's name?
Doug McElroy.
Oh, McElroy.
Yeah, MCEL.
I'm reading it, because I'm reading IEL, I think.
No, I think it's EL, because I'm reading the book right now about that.
Cool.
When, what is it?
When guys, I forget the even title of it.
I just got it from the library two days ago.
Okay.
Yeah, that's probably, that's probably in, then I imagine, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, very cool.
It's interesting.
So, when giants never sleep or something like that.
Cool.
I've not heard that one.
Yeah, how the internet began.
Interesting to find out that it started with the white D. Eisenhower.
I thought it was Al Gore.
Yeah, right.
But that's where, that's who started ARPA.
Was Eisenhower.
Well, I didn't know that.
Yeah, because of the launch of Sputnik.
That's how the whole thing started.
Wow, so Sputnik actually started the internet.
Yeah.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, that was where the...
You mean it was an Al Gore after all?
It was the Russians?
Yeah, the Russians did it.
It was all there full.
No, they brought the book up with me, but I guess I didn't.
Must be downstairs still.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm not seeing his name as he spells it in that book title anywhere.
On this.
But it could be...
You could be right.
I could be wrong.
Yeah, I think it's...
Because I went to school where a kid did spell this name the same way.
And we used to call him McElroy.
Oh, okay.
That would be interesting.
Very interesting talk.
Yeah, I mean, that'll be really, really cool.
Dan Wasch does going to talk there as well on the Linux boot process,
which will be kind of an extension of his HPR series.
I would imagine on the subject of great series that he did.
I was really, really happy that none of the proposed OS 10 or...
Yeah.
Like a lot of...
There were a couple of talks because this year's like a big 40 years of Unix theme, right?
And so there were a couple of talks, you know, proposed like Mac OS, this Mac OS that.
So luckily none of that got in.
Yeah, that would suck.
I would have really been disappointed.
I was not eager to go to a Linux fetch with Macintosh OS talks present.
There's like a couple of BFD ones which should be interesting.
I guess, you know, the biggest representation is obviously Linux.
But there's a couple of generic, I guess, open source, quote-unquote one.
BFD, like a Python, random stuff like that.
But yeah, it should be really cool.
And so you can get into this Saturday talks by paying as a supporter.
You can get into the Friday talks no matter what.
From 1 to 8 o'clock, 13 to 2,000.
Or are you going to...
Could you send me the schedule you just talked about?
And I'll put it in the show notes.
Yeah, so hyaluronic.org-slash-schedule.html.
But I will also paste it in just to make sure there's no miscellaneous.
Yeah, except I won't get to the hotel until probably 2 or 3.
Yeah, I imagine there's going to be a lot of that too.
But on the other hand, a lot of people are showing up on Friday for like the hackathon.
And there's going to be the OLFU, like the Little University course and stuff.
So I mean, there's going to be people arriving for that day anyway.
So yeah, it's not going to be as busy, obviously, as Saturday.
But I imagine it's going to be a pretty good turn out.
And some of the talks I think are really interesting.
I mean, on Friday, there are the ones that I mentioned by the open street map people, map people,
me, on Linder, Ilan from scale.
I don't know what he's talking about, but he's a good speaker.
I've seen him a couple of times.
Jonathan Daniel is going to be talking about Ruby on Rails for like,
just an administrator or whatever.
And then a guy is going to be talking about enterprise security.
So the last two talks are going to be very, sort of, just ad mini.
And then the front ones are just kind of random stuff.
But I think they're going to be really good talks.
So yours is at 2 o'clock?
Mine is at 3 o'clock.
Good.
No wait, that's wrong.
They must have dropped an hour.
I must be missing someone.
Well, maybe I'll leave earlier.
Try to make it to 5 hour drive.
Yeah, yeah.
Now I think maybe there's a talk missing at 2 o'clock.
That's what I'm guessing.
I can look it up.
Yeah, actually at 1,400, it's Daniel Chen doing a better living through beta testing,
which is a cool talk as well, I'm sure.
So I'm at 1,500.
And that's it.
Very cool.
All right.
Who wants to go next?
How about 330?
All righty.
Well, uh...
Brilliant.
I'd try, I mean, the Vinny, if he hadn't already done it to himself.
Yeah, really.
I mean, I think that's sort of insightful and thoughtful.
Much like that.
I think the best stories ever come up with.
You know what I really do.
You guys can't hear him.
No.
That's where he's talking right now.
No way.
He's talking to himself.
That's too bad.
Yeah, it's a real pity.
All right.
Move on next.
How about evil as?
Art V.
Okay.
I am going to step back to the beginners of Linux.
And I found a site.
And I will post it in the chat here.
It's the top 10 best cheat sheets and tutorials for Linux and Unix Command.
It's a really...
It's a pretty good...
It's a pretty good breakdown of sheets.
If I get the damn thing to go up here.
Yeah, it's really broke down into different...
It's got a toolbox.
A cheat sheet section.
It's got a tutorial for beginners.
It's got the Shell Tutorials.
Learn Unix in 10 minutes.
A teacher.
A CAD teacher had wrote it for his students.
Because all the questions he was getting.
And so he decided to make up this little...
Like brief.
How to.
On how to use Linux and then the command line.
And it...
Looking through it.
It does give you...
Pretty much learning it in 10 minutes.
I mean...
This is kind of like going off of what you had on your...
Your bad apples won there.
Got to.
Yeah, like up to that.
Yeah, I mean this kind of really helps...
If people listen to that.
And look at these.
And nice because you can print them out.
Just a couple of them are like seven pages.
You know, the base of them.
Some of them are just a couple pages.
You know, like the pocket guide type.
Yeah.
There's a lot of things on there that you take for granted.
People use...
Or they...
They don't use anymore.
Just because they don't remember them.
I mean, I was...
In one of the other chat rooms.
And one of the guys was doing something.
And he...
A very simple command.
I don't even remember what it was myself.
And he said, you know, there you go back to basics.
It was a command that, you know, you learned right from the beginning.
You know, like an LS command.
Or something on that nature.
And he...
He had forgot all about it.
And another guy said, well, why don't you just do this?
And he's like, you know, one of them does smack your face.
But I think a lot of people will benefit from this.
I'm sure there's things in here that...
Somebody...
Somebody will get something good at us.
There's...
There's enough of it in here.
Yeah.
I mean, these are...
It's nice to see these kinds of things compiled into one place.
I know when we had that conversation, you were...
You were saying that, you know, it's hard to find things like this.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, you can always think, oh, yeah, I've seen something like that somewhere.
And you can never remember where.
But, yeah, bookmarked that.
Yeah.
I actually got it off of Google Reader.
It was on there on one of the...
I think it was a...
The How-To-Forge site.
Oh, yeah.
That's actually a really good site that I always forget about.
Yeah.
I have the RSS feed in my Google Reader.
And every day I just kind of blow through the feeds.
And, you know, they give you the headlines and everything.
And I've seen this and I said, oh, look at this.
This is really...
This is nice.
Two of these I had seen before.
On separate sites.
But to see them piled together like this.
And, like I said, it's not just...
It's not just command sheets.
Sheets, but it's actual little tutorials.
And, you know, like the one is a Unix tutorial for beginners.
I mean, it's basically...
Yeah, it's eight simple tutorials on how to use Linux and Unix commands.
Yeah, yeah.
And the way that I did it, you know, got familiar with it was basically I just started doing...
I started taking things that I would do on the computer repetitively.
And then I would find out how to do it on the command line with like one of those tutorials
or a cheat sheet or something.
Oftentimes the tutorials better because they usually are doing that.
They're saying, here is how to copy a file from your, you know, such and such to such and such.
And instead of doing it some way, you know, that you're used to,
you force yourself to do it on the command line.
And then you do that like 30 times and suddenly it becomes second nature.
Oh, yeah.
Your cast was really, really good.
And then, you know, with the, you know, the site you had with it, really made it, you know, easy to understand.
Yeah.
And like I said, looking through these, there's some of you with them that are on the same...
They're on the same line as how you laid yours out.
Yeah.
And if you listened, it sheds a lot of light on them because it just...
You know, it's overwhelming at times.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean, I like it.
I mean, I have the one machine, it's just command line.
You know, it's just a little...
It just cuts like we're on it with just the command line.
And things like this really...
I mean, if I screw it up, if I sew up, I screw it up,
it's a great machine to try different things like this one.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, and that's what I think.
People beginning if they didn't get their hands on something like that.
You really can learn a lot.
I mean, you don't have to worry about destroying your...
You're using computer, you know, the one where you're left up that you have to use every day or...
Yeah, you're a mission-curricle machine.
Yeah.
Screw up or else you don't get your work done or whatever.
Yeah, it's great.
I mean, I...
I have a blast with it.
If anybody else has got any comments, but that's about all I got to say about it.
That's a good find.
It looks good out.
A lot of writing in it.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You can...
And like I said, once you...
You read over it.
I'm sure anybody will see things on there to go, oh, that's...
You know, that was really good.
You know, I've been looking for something like that.
And I just think a lot of people will get something out of it.
Yeah, even the alphabetical list of...
Command, line, commands.
Yeah, yeah.
Fucking bloody shit there for two days just reading through them and playing with them.
Yeah, right.
Now, you said it may be something that you...
You've been meaning to do or...
You thought about doing it.
And then you forgot...
I mean, how that goes.
Flight seconds later, you're doing something else and you forgot all about what you just were thinking about.
And at least with that, you could print them out and maybe highlight it or...
You know, stick it on a bolt and pull it by your computer and go, oh, yeah, yeah, I got to do that.
I want to make sure I do that and you have it all right there instead of trying to figure out,
well, where did I see that?
I knew that was somewhere.
My problem is I have these bookmarks on five different computers and I forgive which one I bookmarked to page on.
Well, you need that Ubuntu service.
So, John...
Well, you called it Wanners or something?
I don't know whatever happened to that thing.
I haven't really heard much about it.
Well, they may face that out with something else they're coming out with.
Oh, maybe.
And now, you know, I was like Firefox has that thing.
You could lock your bookmarks together, right, with different systems.
But I don't always use Firefox.
I mean, I have Opera on one as a browser and something else on another machine.
You know, trying out different web browsers.
So, I can't even... I can't even open my bookmarks.
I'd more or less have to...
I really should just take a file and put on like my network, my 500-day drive here.
And I should just make a folder of a bookmark and just copy all my bookmarks into there.
And I can just go to that drive and go, oh, yeah, here's the bookmark.
Of course, maybe I'll arrange it a little better if I do that, too.
Hey, yeah.
Now, does anyone know if there's an AGPL version of delicious out there by chance?
That's a good question.
That's the one that sort of like manages your bookmarks online, right?
It's a social bookmarking site.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, some people send me links from there all the time.
I don't know if there is or not.
I think I did actually hear something like that.
I just don't remember what on earth it was.
On that, everybody can see your bookmarks though, right?
Whatever you put up on that.
Isn't that how that works?
Yeah, I mean, not only that, I think that's like the point of it.
Yeah, I think you can mark some of them to be private.
But if you're putting them up on someone else's server,
there's no way it's ever private.
No, no, absolutely not.
That's why I say I just assume put them on my hard drive, my portable hard drive here.
Well, that's why I asked if there was an AGPL version of it,
then you could run a version of it on your home server and not share it with anyone
and still be able to access them anywhere.
Well, that's true.
You could get around that, too, like run iOS on your own server or something.
I guess that would be a bit clunky though.
What was the other open ID?
I think a lot of the open ID sites,
and I don't know which one is technically GPL or whatever,
but that's what you're saying to actually run something on your own server
so that you can get into it.
Yeah, that's what I would like to do.
Yeah, but see if you did that, why don't you just SSH into your server
and grab the launch firefox or something
and just wherever your bookmarks are.
Well, but then you're not consolidating them.
Yeah, okay.
Not like that, but you have to have everything run and then.
Yeah.
I don't know, like if I wanted to get into my net book,
I'd have to have that going, you know.
Right, right, right, right, yeah.
This way, if I put it on my USB drive here,
I can actually plug it on a couple different boxes,
but leave it on my Debian box or whatever that I leave running all the time.
Couldn't you just use Async or something to Async you,
Myzilla folder?
Well, wouldn't that work?
But like I said, I don't have,
I don't have Mozilla on everything.
I mean,
or Opera is Mozilla, right?
No.
No, no, that's different.
Opera is Opera.
They're not actually open source, actually.
They're like their own little company.
Now, another option is there are those, like,
there's a couple of versions of that style of program out there.
And a lot of them have the ability that you could sync it
what put into your Tidley Wiki to a off-site server
that you could control yourself.
So you could save your bookmarks into something like that
and then use that and sync it all around the place.
Yeah, that's true.
I think that idea.
That would be pretty neat.
Somebody did, uh, who was that,
that's a web or something, did a, uh,
did a thing in Tidley Wiki?
Yeah.
So anyone else has Tidley Winky user organis?
Tidley Winky.
Tidley Winky.
Oh, to the bin with you.
I don't, I haven't used bookmarks for so long.
Not since the super.
What did I call it?
The super location bar?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, whatever it is.
So I get to the bin, you don't correct me?
I think I'm right.
I think I only use bookmarks for stuff
that I really should look at,
but will not.
Exactly.
That's why I don't use it anymore,
because that's what it always becomes.
It's just like, yeah.
I'll never get around that.
Four million links to things that I should have looked at
and are probably absolutely interesting,
but not interesting enough to actually look at.
What about all these note taking apps
that everyone's been talking about for months now?
You just use one of them
and I don't know how they work,
but surely that can go on a server
and you can put all your bookmarks in that.
Yeah, but then you have to have two things running.
You're ending up copying and pasting links
instead of just clicking in a list.
What about that drop box?
Put your bookmarks file in drop box
and link to that or something.
I don't know.
Surely.
Well, it's not hard.
I mean, but the specific question
was a GPL version.
And drop box isn't
and it wouldn't even be a full solution anyway.
Delicious isn't.
All those, you know.
So, yeah.
If it's a web service,
I don't want it to be just GPL.
Any more, I want it to be AGPL.
Oh, okay.
I don't know what AGPL is actually.
I mean, I've heard of it.
I just don't know the difference between Google and everything
they were doing on their servers through AGPL.
You would be able to get the code
for what they're doing much easier.
That's part of the requirement of AGPL
that they make a change.
They have to share it.
Users, I believe.
Wow.
As GPL just says,
if you're distributing the code,
you have to share it.
Well, when you're running a server,
you're not distributing the code.
And you can still walk people in
by making weeks to GPL code.
Right.
But you've got their data basically.
Right.
Well, that is interesting.
Is that why the AGPL came out?
It was a part of it.
I think it was also involved
with a specific company
who helped create that license.
Yeah.
Aferos or whatever it's called.
Cool.
Which, I mean, if I can,
there's a jumping off point
on talking about AGPL
where SSF has started a clone of
this book.
It is under the AGPL
called EasyChain.
And it's EasyHHA.IN.
Well, that's great.
Except it's no longer your turn to do
your story, Louis D.
Trying to split that one in by us.
Yeah.
What was that?
330?
You're second try.
Unless you dropped off again.
No, I'm still here.
My try because you guys said
that we were doing bacon snacks
with a BLT without actually having
to fry bacon.
Yeah, because if you're,
you know, in the middle of doing something,
you really don't want to have to get up to,
you know, go and actually cook bacon.
So what you do is you take your lettuce
and tomato and white bread
and just stick bacon A's in it.
It totally works.
Wait a minute.
So you chop up the bacon?
No, there's a product called bacon A's.
Is the bacon flavor
you do veggie might?
No, but it is the same people
that do bacon salt.
It's salt that tastes like bacon.
I see this sounds good.
Yeah.
Well, everything's better with bacon.
It is.
Not your vegetarian.
Clat 2, I'm surprised you haven't
trying to mean the bean already.
I know, right?
Three thirds in the bin
for promoting meat products.
Yeah.
All right.
You're really close right now.
You're like right there
because you're saying it sounds good.
Don't forget I'm the mayor.
Yeah.
Well, say, clat 2.
All you got to do is make a bacon
salt.
You're in the bin.
There's no food still going cold.
I said about this 330.
You're in the bin.
What do you get in the bin?
How long to give you?
Look, I'm starting a revolution.
There is no bin.
330.
It is in your mind.
You can walk to the bin now.
Or we have to take you to the bin.
It's up to you.
Don't take me, bro.
Don't.
I'm going to have to do the news.
I can't really.
We haven't had a good hang on your show yet.
Well, there's always going to be some of you
that gives us a problem.
I know.
I've been starting to think we're listening
to the iron chef there for a little while.
Yeah, I know.
Bacon age.
That's what it's called, bacon age.
He's googling it right now.
He's like, aww.
Well, I want to see if that's at my local coffee store.
Oh, man.
Hey, let me...
I forgot to tell you guys we have a baby monitor hooked
up to the bin.
Let's see what's going on in there.
And then he grabs some bacon.
Let this off.
I said, never hooked that up.
Yeah.
All right.
How about you, Deputy Jay Lindsay?
What do you got for us?
I have no bacon.
But you have...
I think I have some information about you, Dave.
If you don't know what you, Dave, that's what creates
all those little device files in your slash dev directory.
Including the slash dev, slash drum?
Yes.
Cool.
But not so much now.
The dev.fs system that they used to use would create
all the device files that could possibly be detected,
which was creating quite a problem.
So the new system basically detects your hardware
and then creates the device.
But you dev rules are...
They're fairly straightforward in concept.
You're basically putting a line in the UDEV rules file.
And it has to get a match on the device using some attribute from it.
And you can get that from either the sysfs file system
or through something like UDEV info.
So basically you're writing the rule that says something like,
if the device has this manufacturer, then I want to name it this.
Cool.
And you can write rules to do a lot of things that are pretty handy.
Like you can match a device and launch a certain application
when that device is plugged in.
You can create symbolic links, have multiple names for your devices.
There's just a ton of stuff that you can do with it.
So Jay Lindsay, with the UDEV rules,
you could have it identify a specific, say, thumb drive
and then automatically rsync a bookmark file for you to that drive.
Yeah, exactly.
You just get it to recognize you could use file size,
you could use the model number on it.
Anything to get a match on the device.
And this has already been...
I mean, this is not news, per se.
This is something that they're actually doing right now.
That's the new system that they're using.
Right.
It's been in use for quite a while under 26.
Okay.
Cool.
And the change is that instead of creating every single device that could,
I was going to smartly see what devices are there and monitor for new ones
and create those devices instead of creating every single one.
Yes, exactly.
We have a jokester in the house.
I bet Jay, if you know what this sheriff.
I think it probably was.
No, that wasn't me.
So there's still a couple of things wrong with this UDEV,
Jay Lindsay, by simply your frequency modules.
I've been detected right.
The PCM CIA card readers are not treated as removal devices.
I'm just looking at the arch with you on it.
So it's still a few things to sort out with it.
Yeah.
It's being worked on, you know, with the kernel.
So they're working out bugs if they find them.
Mixed up a device, a sound, the network cards changing orders on each boot.
How would that be a problem?
Oh, if you had two, two, um, yeah.
Okay.
Two Ethernet cards.
You'd have one would load as zero, one would load as one of them.
And then that's what the next time.
Yeah.
I mean, I imagine some people are going to have issues with this no matter what.
I mean, for the same reason that they have issue with like how or something,
you know, they just want to be able to define everything themselves
and make sure that everything is assigned a very specific thing every time.
But for other people, I'm sure it's very handy.
I think that's something I'm going to have to look into for my show
because the way I record it, I use multiple USB headsets
and I've got to, you know, plug the headsets in in a particular order.
Oh, wow.
So I know which one is which in jacosher.
But with this, I might be able to find some way of...
I'm sure you'd want a particular name.
Yeah.
Right.
You did rule or something.
What did I call it?
Yeah.
But this would really only help when you're on the command line, right?
I mean, if you had like six USB pen drives plugged in,
they're all going to be labeled.
Or am I like not understanding this?
I think you're incorrect about that because, I mean, yeah, they'll be labeled
and that's done by how because they're being auto-mounted and stuff.
But in terms of like which USB port is which, well, no, that would be the same.
Well, no, because I mean, if you plug in, I don't know, a microphone into a USB port,
and that's going to be assigned a certain device name, right?
And when you go and set it as your input in your audio program,
you're going to have to look for that specific device.
But then the next time you do it, you plug in a different microphone into that USB port
because you're just not, you know, you're like...
You're not really thinking about, oh, I need to do it in this order
and I need to make sure this one goes to this port, this one goes to that port.
I'll give you one example where it's a little bit worse is once you get your four USB headsets done,
they're all, say, Logitech brand.
They all show up under K-Mix as Logitech USB audio device or something for that accord.
Yeah, if you don't know if it's an input or an output device.
Yeah.
I know it detects and gives me the ability to set the headset in the mic,
but I'm guessing as to which one is which.
Right.
When I'm setting that up.
Yeah.
So with the UDEV rule, you would be able to define which device is going to get a certain device name,
no matter what you plug it into.
Right.
And then hopefully K-Mix would detect, you know, if I took, you know,
a headset and labeled it one on the plug and then set up a UDEV rule that when this one's plugged in,
it's always this name it would show up in K-Mix in a similar fashion.
I could at least see Logitech USB headset one.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm pretty sure that would be correct, although I guess we're all speaking at this point sort of in the dark
because none of us really know what we're talking about.
But it does look like you can give it group names, you can give them device names, stuff like that.
So I think we're probably right about that.
And we can use this right now.
Yeah.
This is implemented now.
The story here, I guess, is really a website on how to do this.
Yeah.
This has been around for a long time, years.
It's just that nobody really looks into UDEV rules unless they really need them.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I've heard of writing UDEV rules.
And I've never known even where to go to investigate the possibility.
But I'm going to read through this for sure.
This looks like a cool read.
All right.
Cool.
Any more questions on this one?
Nope.
All right.
How about you, Zoak?
What do you got for us?
I've got an interesting word.
It's got a life hacker and they said it's free and anonymous torrenting.
But it's actually a bit more than that.
It's a website called itshin.com, which I've just posted into the IRC.
And basically, they set up in the Netherlands.
What they do is you can set up a 128-bit encrypted tunnel to tunnel to their stuff.
You set up a VPN, basically.
You tunnel to their website and then go and do whatever you want on the Internet
to anonymize your activity.
Unique sign-up for free accounts and then set up the VPN.
And that's it.
But in the end, how do you know they're not walking everything that passes through them?
They don't have a question.
If they say they don't, yeah.
I mean, this is one of the things you don't know for certain.
They say they are not keeping any records of any of it.
It's definitely, you know, how much you trust them.
I mean, some of you might say it's easier because it's in a different country.
So therefore it's...
Yeah, certainly.
It's harder for the FBI to come up and knocking on their doors.
Then again, you know, if you did something really, really bad anyway.
If enough government agencies and police forces and stuff get involved,
you've screwed no matter what.
So how...
Well, it's going to say that still presumably the...
Depending on how many people are using it, the issue that if you're connecting them
and then their stuff suddenly goes to, you know, childphonography.com or whatever,
then they can still link you up because whenever your Internet access is running
and you're running this tunnel to them, that's the only time that certain sites are hit.
You could then say, well, actually, it's this person.
There are certain attacks that way you can do and figure out.
Well, you can't say absolutely definitely.
It just seems rather coincidental that the only time that you go on the Internet,
this bad stuff happens.
But it's gone to a life hacker.
So during our test run with a large Linux distribution,
connection speeds with the its hidden VPN enabled were only negligibly decreased
from our standard torrent speeds without the VPN in place.
So, I mean, I've looked around on the Internet and I can't find anyone saying it's really, really bad or anything.
And they say because they're in the Netherlands with certain legalities
about they don't have to cover this all they can't because of certain illegal climate there.
Again, it's, you know, how much you trust them.
So, you end up having to trust someone.
If Australia was to introduce the net filtering,
it would be simply a matter of using this.
And that would bypass the net filtering, wouldn't it?
Yes.
And it's all they've added.
This has one of the sites on the Blacklist.
Well, they could, I'm not sure what they could do.
If you're doing a VPN, you're setting up connection.
If they physically block that machine, I'm sure that if people are so inclined,
they could just add extra machines or not different different websites.
My pay address is the bounce to the same one because that one is,
if Australia blocked its hidden.com, you could still go to the IP address.
If they block that IP address, all they do is they use something else to have a different IP address,
bounce that way.
Or, you know, it's hidden to.com.
But that isn't blocked and you can still get around it.
So, it's one of these things that the blocking would never actually work.
But yes, in theory, you can't do that deep.
Of course, yes.
Australia could then turn around and say, we're banning VPN
because think of the children, whatever.
Just round the reasons terrorists are doing it or think of the children,
one of the two, and still ban the VPN,
which would mean you're still screwed.
But yes, in theory, you can use this and get around all the stuff.
So they can be open there.
190 million dollars.
Sorry, Lord.
I was saying the only advantage of this thing seems to have over the onion router
is you get this time.
Run both, you know.
Go to the VPN first and then run the onion router to really bug people.
Again, it comes down to you to us, do you trust the onion router?
Do you trust this?
There are issues with both of them.
The onion router, if you have the end point, I think it is.
The one closest to you, still knows who you are.
So if that is a government one, let's say, for example,
then the government will know exactly what you're doing.
So if China, for example, wants us to stop people using the onion router,
they set up a bunch of onion routers themselves,
and if they're the end point, they know exactly what everyone's doing.
But it was the entry note that you'd want to be at that point,
not the exit note.
Because the exit note doesn't know where the data originated from.
Sorry, yes.
The start point, not the end point, the entry, as you said, yes, you are right.
I think I started off saying that the start point
and then switched it to the end point in the middle.
But yes, the one closest to you, isn't it?
Because, of course, they have to send it to you.
But I just figured it was something else that three thirds of the fair aren't with.
Yeah, we have to look at it.
You're going to have to read something to use it.
You know that, don't you?
I have to read through that.
Yes.
Reading is for Windows users and people who have jobs.
Well said.
What about students?
Nice?
No, they just go and find the cliff notes version of the book.
What's the video?
Yeah, they watch the movie.
I've done that before.
Cameroid book, a list that was terrible.
Probably a troll stick and snow.
The movie was got awful too.
I think there's a place in my head where I've blocked it out because it hurts so bad.
It was probably great expectations.
Did I go to school in the Midwest?
The only expectation that we have is sing corn.
M-met.
Right.
Hey, there is more than corn in Indiana.
We have soybeans too.
Well, speaking of corn, you got anything else, Oak?
No, I only have one story.
I don't want to go back in the bin again.
330 is looking frisky in there.
330 is looking frisky in there.
What was that?
Looking frisky.
He's got a taken loop out.
He was trying to get something with evil eyes.
I don't remember sending frisky into the bin.
I was wondering how 330 could be looking in the market.
That's one of his Durables.
I can't in the bin.
Wow.
It's just out of control today.
Durables.
What do you got for us, Peter 64?
Well, I actually had nothing until thank God I was talking to Lord D.
Now, obviously, I know Lord D's heard about this because he told me.
But has anyone heard of the candy?
I think I have heard of it, but I'm not clear on what it is or does anymore.
No, well, when Lord D.
pointed it out to me, I had a look at this.
I thought, well, this is probably the only reason I could think of for actually wanting to use policy audio.
Because what it is, it's like a sort of audio control,
but automatically, as windows become focused,
adjust the audio level for that particular application as it fades the previous one out.
Like, if you watch the video on the site there,
just to give you an example, you might be watching a movie on BLC
and then Skype rings.
Well, what it will do is fade the movie volume down,
and it will bring Skype up automatically.
To virtually just fading in and out,
whatever application you happen to be focused on at the time.
Now, I know, Jay Lindsay had a muck around with it quickly.
And from all the comments I'm reading, it works very well in the latest.
Do you want to use it to whatever the latest Ubuntu is?
I noticed that it's in the archery page.
I, myself, haven't tried it yet, because I only just found out about an hour ago
when I was talking to Lord D.
Lord Dan, have you played around with it at all?
No, not yet, but I just a couple of comments I have from his.
This one was supposed to be part of the promise of policy audio from what I remember.
And it just seems like someone has gone and built this program
and really seems to be doing is you create a priority list of, you know,
if Skype happens, you know, you need everything else out and bring Skype,
you build a priority list of, you know, Skype's the most, you know,
Skype, you know, anything along those lines is the most important.
You know, videos, the next, audio, and so on and so forth down.
Yeah, I'd, like I said, I haven't tried it yet, but I can see it being,
well, especially with just Skype, and also sometimes when you're watching a movie
and then, and someone posts a video in IRC to have a look at,
you often click on it and it would be handy for it to just
level the volume of the movie or watch it at the time.
So anyway, that's just a quick one.
Like I said, it's in the archery page, so I'm going to have a game.
Challenge you, you've got to go on the door or if you had any problem at all, didn't you?
Yeah, I played with it. It has a few problems.
It's not so complex as you're building a list.
Really, what's happening is the first time you run an application,
it's getting the name of the window and stuff like that to tell which program it's running.
And you set the volume for that application.
And the next time it comes up, it's going to have the right volume.
But where the trouble comes in, it's actually using a very simple method
of telling what needs to play audio.
Whatever window gets the focus, it's what's going to get the audio cranked up.
And the other one's going to go down.
But it has issues like when you go full screen with BLC, it loses focus.
So your movie, you know, your volume fades out,
and then XMMS cranks all the way to the max.
And that good.
It has little bugs, but I'm sure they'll work it out.
As far as this is what Pulse is supposed to do, yeah, that's true.
Right now, Pulse has that capability, but it's only, it isn't nice.
It's like you can mute a particular application, but it's not going to fade out.
And it's not going to raise the volume on another application.
Even in the ear candy you read me, it says, you know, these features are coming to Pulse eventually.
But here they are right now.
So this is going to go ahead.
Oh, I was just going to say, so this is like a quick and temporary fix that sounds like.
Yeah, there's like two lines in the read me and one of them is like,
Pulse is going to have this, but we have it now.
It's an interim fix until all.
But you know, it's okay.
It puts a little icon in your system terrain.
And you can open up the thing and configure your application.
It's okay for just you.
One thing I saw on the site, it said it tries to auto detect programs and applications,
but it had problems with some of them like DLC that it didn't know what it was.
Yeah, it's kind of, kind of wonky in that effect, because it'll have an application in the program already,
and then it will detect it as something else, because sometimes they change the name on the window
when you open a different file, and that throws it off.
And another one of the annoying things is when it detects a new application,
and one that it doesn't have a file for yet, it automatically puts it at a hundred percent volume.
So you got to watch your ears when you're playing with this thing.
Yeah, wow.
That sounds like this.
That's a bad default.
It will be like this at the whole thing.
So it's like 50 and then you can go this should be above and this one should be below,
and then you know, new stuff comes in the middle.
Is it detecting the whole thing that say I said the volume for DLC full blast?
Is it honoring what I said the LCAT, or is this what pulp, what like a mix?
I can set the volume in one program and then set my overall system volume to something else.
No, it is not honoring the application at all.
Whatever you set in the ear candy itself, it will move the volume to that level and keep it there.
So it's a system volume not for application volume?
Yeah, you can set for application in ear candy, but when you go in VLC by itself and turn the volume up,
it's not going to stay at that volume.
It's going to stay at ear candy volume.
Yeah, one thing on the right is that our account is good as well.
It will automatically detect when you plug in a USB headset and then push the sound out through that.
Yeah, I tested it with my headset and that actually works.
Yeah.
That would make it worth it.
Wait and go.
Or just that alone or open.
I mean, it's still early development, isn't it?
It's any of what point I fall?
Oh, yeah, it's very early.
Pointful.
It gives you a little notify and that says moving audio to headset.
And I've got to admit, that sounds like a nice little feature there because in the past on when I plugged in a USB headset
and I have to manually dig into the program settings and switch it over to using headset,
get the little annoying, especially after the headset's been unplugged and you restart the program.
Yeah.
We've always known that the Pulse Audio had great features in mind.
It's just getting it all working together.
And eventually, distros are going to have it ironed out, so it all works.
And those will be good times.
Yeah, I would like that.
When that occurs.
It's actually been moving really steadily though.
I will say that.
It's not like they introduced it and then walked away from it and just left everyone hanging.
It feels like they're really working on it pretty quickly.
Just cool.
I can deal with that.
Yeah, I don't think I might ever go with it.
Try getting Pulse running on the desktop and then install this.
I don't think I'd be doing it on the laptop.
It's just stuff at the audio.
I couldn't really have that many.
I can't remember the last time I've cursed Pulse Audio, really.
I'm pretty sure it's lately.
It's been doing everything I need it to do.
Have you used it on the Slack way?
No.
No, no.
I haven't bothered installing it on Slackware.
So yours would have been all for Doran just?
Mainly or?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm basing my, I think, all my Pulse experience also to Doran, actually.
Which in theories were it ought to be the best in the developers of Red Hat employee, as far as I recall.
I'm still shocked that Ubuntu ships with it.
I never could understand how they justified that.
Yeah, well I must say, I decide what you just said.
I still haven't heard a good report about it.
Yeah, I'm not raving about it.
But I am saying that they're working on it.
It seems pretty steadily.
And, you know, Pulse Caster is looking pretty promising.
So, yeah, I don't know.
And I haven't had that much.
I cannot remember the last time that I had sat down and just obsessed over hating Pulse Audio.
It's been largely transparent to me.
If you want to hear a good rant about Pulse Audio, just get Kajari talking about it.
And he'll give you an earful.
Yeah, well, you see, he's got more demanding audio needs than I do right now.
I mean, because he's dealing with a screen reader and then how that interacts over or with all the rest of the sound.
And me, right now, all I do with my computers in terms of sound is some audio editing.
And it's really about it, to be honest.
I listen to music and I edit audio.
So, I mean, it's not bad demanding.
I'm not even doing that right now.
He's also, like, looking in different devices and stuff like that, like you are Lord Dracomboot.
And he's also complying that Pulse Audio was never designed with audio quality in mind.
Oh, I thought he was saying the opposite.
I'm pretty sure he said Pulse Audio was never designed with audio quality in mind.
Now, I'm almost sure he's not saying that because I was pretty sure he said that Pulse will take advantage of the better settings.
Of the card that you have as opposed to, like, something else that will take the lowest common denominator.
I thought he said something about the Pulse Audio guy thinks you don't need anything but an onboard sound card.
Oh, okay.
All right. Yeah, maybe I'm just remembering that.
I mean, if we can get Kajari to call in, then he can confirm exactly what he did say.
Because he is the person who knows way more than the rest of us about audio stuff.
Yeah, I'm trying to get him on the line now.
I just remember him saying stuff like Pulse and they should all be in the bin.
That's all I can remember.
That was a joke, though.
I didn't send you to the bin.
Oh, okay. Oh, sorry.
I was off of the bin again.
He just automatically goes here.
Yeah.
You know, it's creepy.
You probably have a refrigerator box.
This has been...
Did he crawl into it?
He used it as a gorgon ticket.
Come on, Kajari, call in.
He looks like he's in one of those moods.
So, he's going to kick my ass.
Yeah, he's going to kick your ass.
Well, I interviewed him about it on Fedora reloaded like last year or something.
He can just go back and find what exactly what he said.
I don't know, for sure.
The last time I heard him talking about it with Josani,
like in last couple of weeks, he still wasn't very impressed with it.
That's all I could be told.
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm definitely not impressed.
They haven't been anything to impress me a stupid user.
I mean, who knows nothing.
They've not wowed me.
But at least it's on the level from what I can tell being transparent to me,
like the average user.
When I start up audacity, I don't have the issue any fancy PA suspend command,
like I used to.
When I plug in my microphone or a capture device,
it's easy to put that into audacity or sweep or whatever I'm putting it into.
I hear the sound that I want to on the device that I want to,
whether it's a speaker, the earphone, whatever.
So, I don't know it's there, which is a good thing.
For the regular user.
I mean, I know Chad was complaining about it nonstop for a while
and how it's implemented in Ubuntu, if I recall correctly.
I think I've heard that from a couple of people, actually,
that either Hardy or John T or whatever they're on right now,
one of those was really, really bad for Paul.
Hardly, really bad, because they didn't really even configure it.
They just kind of threw it on there and was like, oh, well, I hope everybody likes it.
Okay, that's how it was in Fedora 9, I think.
I think that was the first one.
Yeah, and it was just like, there's pulse.
It's going to be great someday.
And you're just like, why is my sound not working and where is pulse?
Because, yeah, it's really tough.
Perfect idea.
It will be really great one night.
Yeah, they're on Hardy.
They didn't put any of the pulse tools on it, did they?
No.
I think the one of them...
It wasn't an issue.
Wasn't that an issue with quite a few districts where they didn't ship any tools
for dealing with it and yet to install it after the fact?
Yeah, now that you mentioned, I think even Fedora 9 did the same thing,
which I remember surprised me and disappointed me.
Now, isn't pulse audio like part of GNOME now?
Where it's official?
I don't know, is it?
I think it is.
Because it always cools in, we can just check with him.
I think it's a...
I require him it for G-streamer now.
Wow.
That's interesting.
I didn't know that.
Tell me why G-streamer has gone down hill so quickly.
Yeah.
Well, just find on feeding to all this plateau.
The phone on is almost an alternative to pulse, I think.
I mean, almost.
Basically, phone on is like a layer that has all the fancy audio things that you can do.
And then you as a programmer can just say, okay,
so phone on make a call to whatever backend the user has defined,
whether it's seen or G-streamer or whatever the other ones are,
and manage that for me.
So phone on has all that built in, so you don't have to write...
You don't have to choose for yourself, okay, this application is going to be compatible with G-streamer.
You know, you'd say this application is a sound application.
I'm going to make all my special audio calls to phone on and let it sort out,
which backend to use and stuff like that.
So that's kind of what phone on does.
And I guess you need...
I think you need...
I think phone on actually can kind of ignore pulse in a way,
because pulse brings in ALSA and OSS and all that other stuff.
Yeah, I don't know.
I've got the order of it all sort of mixed up.
So I'm not sure whether phone on needs to call pulse,
or whether phone on can just call pulse ALSA or what.
Yeah, that's what phone on.
The way I understood it, and I could be mistaken here.
You could write your application to talk to phone on,
and then phone on could talk to pulse if they wanted...
Okay.
Could talk directly to ALSA.
You know, it's an abstraction layer,
but it doesn't seem to be quite as fancy of an abstraction layer as pulse is.
Right.
And from what I've heard, I mean the developers have told you,
at least they're saying that phone on is the answer.
Pulse is not...
Unless...
I mean I guess they're...
I'm sure people are withholding judgment,
so pulse gets to where it promises it's going to be.
But yeah, from what I've understood,
a lot of people are kind of thinking of pulse as sort of an unnecessary thing
that happened in Linux sound.
But I guess everyone...
Well, they're own protocol better.
So phone on was the answer to ARTS.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, phone on and pulse kind of happened around the same time.
Yeah, you're...
It sounds about right.
I mean, Kitty, for...
I guess it's been in development for a long time.
I don't remember when phone on came in at the picture,
but yeah, it sounds about right.
And everything just works better in KDE.
That is correct.
So you're still running KDE?
Yeah.
I'm still running the latest one, 4.3.
Cool.
Oh, the only reason I know about phone on in KDE is...
You're talking about KDE 4.3 and I stalled it the other day on the laptop.
Every time I boot into it, I get a message saying,
phone on has failed falling back to default device or something,
which I remember seeing when I tried Pulse Audio once.
Almost exactly the same message box.
Yeah, I remember getting those messages on Pulse.
I think I saw that once on KDE,
and it was because I...
like my sound device had been set to something funky that didn't...
either didn't exist or I had...
I think it was just something that didn't exist or something.
Yeah, you need to just go into your system setting.
Yeah, I did that part too.
I went into the system setting, had a look.
And it looked like the device was set, right?
But all I did was move it down, want to move the...
I also...
I think Dolcer device up and now I just use the ulcer and I take it.
Yeah.
I mean, that seems to work usually.
I don't remember what I used off the top of my head.
Yeah.
It suits my making needs, I'm afraid.
You might not have Pulse Dash also installed,
and that might be what you are having set as your system default.
There's something similar to that.
I think that might have been something that happened to me,
because there's a separate device for like Pulse Audio,
sound server, and Pulse Audio,
and then there's the quote unquote default,
which is just ulcer.
And I think what had happened was after I installed the Pulse Dash
ulcer compatibility plugin thing,
it all kind of sorted itself out.
Something like that.
I don't remember exactly,
but it had something to do with that.
So do a repo search for like a Pulse and ulcer plugin
and see if installing that helps at all.
I can't do it at all.
Oh, you don't have Pulse on that machine, do you?
No, well, no, it was only when I,
it was all final,
so I used the final error message and popped up.
Yeah, okay.
Well, a picture of me had something to do with Pulse and ulcer.
Yeah.
Jay Lindsay, do you have,
on that 80-E install,
do you have what distro did you install it on?
Where were you going with this?
I was just curious,
what distro you had it on,
because I'd heard some debate,
whether Cubuntu was shipping with Pulse Audio or not.
And, you know, with some of the stuff I've installed,
I'm pretty sure I've probably pulled in some Pulse stuff by now.
And I'm just trying to see if, you know,
Cubuntu is shipping with Pulse or not by default.
I have no idea.
No, where do I?
The challenge you had on Fedora.
Is Cubuntu a tool in a bit?
What are you trying to do?
Yeah, I was trying to see what system he installed it on,
see if he could answer that question.
Install what, Eric Candy?
Katie.
What does Katie have to do with it?
I think the question really was,
are you running Cubuntu?
No.
Okay.
That's an install.
That's a binable offense,
asking the Jamie and something like that.
I think so too, actually.
Yeah.
You're right.
Get in the bin.
I've heard Jack and Bolt's voice.
Silly, silly me.
I kind of fed him up on that one, I guess.
Yeah.
He deserved it.
It was fun.
That's like asking somebody,
do you have training rules on your bike?
Yeah.
330?
No, I had it.
How'd you guys know?
We've seen the website.
Should I be ashamed that my mom makes me wear a helmet too?
Not when I'm riding a bike, just whenever.
Just because it makes it harder for you to look
the windows on the bus.
Yeah.
That's not funny, it's true.
I mean, what?
Now, how do you send 330?
Do you run Cubuntu?
That would have been perfectly acceptable.
No, wouldn't, I wouldn't run that Katie crap.
I knew that was going.
Cool and Katie crap.
Crunch bang.
Not quite, too.
Someone just called Katie crap.
You know what?
I've come to accept that some people aren't going to like KDE.
I have it.
I have it.
330, get to the bin.
Wow.
At least my feet still warm.
I'm not a big KDE fan.
Actually, I...
Now, I shouldn't say that.
I do like KDE.
As I've said, I have no need for it.
But it is impressive.
A lot better than that bloody Gnome.
That's very true.
It really is a lot better than Gnome.
Yeah, even using just the K apps,
and like you do like fluxbox or something,
I mean, they just...
They work so nicely and they have a lot of inspiration.
Everything seems...
And I move.
Yeah.
I'm fair myself going back to Conqueror.
Again, again, I just can't get away from it as much as I want to.
Yeah, strangely enough.
Well, no, because you're talking about Conqueror as a file manager, right?
Well, in web browser.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I've been using it a lot too,
and I keep...
Yeah, for some reason I keep...
When it works, it works really nicely.
Yeah.
It's just those couple of sites that just seem to refuse to be rendered properly.
But I mean, the configuration on KDE is getting a lot more robust.
I mean, a lot of people used to say that KDE forwarded and have all the configuration
that they're used to and the 3.5. Whatever.
But I don't know from what I can tell.
I mean, I'm not missing any of the configuration options that I used to have
that I can think of, anyway.
Can you do SSH with Dolphin?
Yeah, but isn't that...
What's that like, fish or something, right?
Why do you just want to do straight-up SSH?
I think you have to do fish.
I'm always just doing that in the command line.
That's one of them ones that I just don't do graphically, but...
Why do you start with...
I'm pretty sure that...
I'm pushing the drag icon over to one system to another.
Yeah, no, you definitely can't.
I just...
Let me look...
Fish, maybe.
I think it's fish.
Oh, too bad I don't have a computer to SSH into right now.
Oh, yes I do.
Hold on.
Well, someone's talking.
Yeah, Dolphin's one of the applications I don't think I'll ever use.
I love it.
Yeah, I'm...
I see.
You...
You used to use GNAME once to be...
Yeah.
You probably still do, I think.
Well, you did for two years, but I don't use it anymore.
Well, Dolphin just seems to me to be nautilus with blue icons.
And maybe a couple more features, but...
It's just not feature-rich like Conqueror.
I mean, what can you do in Dolphin?
You can't do in Conqueror, but there's a hell of what you can do in Conqueror.
You can't even split bloody windows in Dolphin.
What do you mean?
You can do a two-pin setup.
Yeah, well, what you could in Windows file manager.
Yeah, you can.
Can you do that now?
Yeah, come on.
Yeah, come on.
So you can have two different directories open in Dolphin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's new.
You couldn't do that when it originally came out.
Right, but I mean, that's what the topic of the conversation was, Peter,
that the options have gotten a lot better lately.
Yeah, well, I might revisit it.
But then, what's the difference now?
Oh, yeah.
It's just to say what's the difference between Conqueror and Dolphin as fall managers?
Yeah, that would be interesting, actually.
I don't...
Yeah, I was not a Conqueror file manager kind of person,
so I'm a horrible basis for comparison.
Well, the rule of thumb is...
Well, the rule of thumb is whatever Nautilus can do, Dolphin can do better.
Well, whatever Mac OS X could not do, Dolphin can do.
That's right.
For someone who's used to, like, the finder, like I was,
these Linux file managers are incredible.
And Dolphin is one of them.
Okay.
I can tap these with this.
You can do it here.
How do I split the pines?
This is columns up there.
For an icon, or you can go to...
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's Control 3 for columns.
Yeah.
I've got a two...
I'm looking at two pines right here.
Whatever your name is.
He's cloning himself.
Hold on.
I am cloning myself as we speak.
I'm trying to log in as myself over here via fish, so I'm typing my name in while I'm talking.
I would have thought that Control Shift T would have split my windows in a horizontal fashion.
Like in Conqueror.
But that, to me, makes the case straight exactly the same.
Oh, I do it.
I do it.
Okay.
Okay.
I get what you're saying.
Yeah.
No, you're right.
It doesn't have that sort of Midnight Commander view.
Midnight Commander sucks anyways.
Well, I...
Yeah.
Probably.
I see the shell.
It wants to be, yeah, it's fish.
It's fish and Dolphin, and you can totally do it.
Does it use the fish shell?
Or is this another fish?
It's a different fish.
Because there's a shell called fish, too, which is kind of weird.
Is it just F-H?
No, it's spelled F-I-S-H.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's apparently an acronym for the Friendly Interactive Shell or something like this.
I don't think I'm going to be using fish shell.
Actually, you might like it.
It has good...
It has interesting script-y syntax.
It's completely not positive, compliant, but it's very readable.
You're not selling it on me.
No.
I don't use it either.
So I'm not going to sell it.
I usually use ZSH because it has better shell globing because the shell globs are like regular expression, basically.
Oh, and by the way, everyone, this is Kajary.
That is Kajary.
And every dog...
They probably figured it out because who else talks about shells?
It was the same reader that gave it away on me.
That came on before you.
Someone posted something on IRC.
I need to get...
Somebody should just send me a braille display and then I could turn the screen reader off on PUDGAS.
I just wanted to say hi, Kajary.
Oh, hey.
Please tell us.
Call them if you're talking about this and see what I'm talking about.
What are you trying to do again?
He's trying to open 20 shells and directories in the same window.
Yeah.
That's exactly what I want to do.
I'll show you.
I'll show you a screenshot of it.
Oh, well...
We need that at 3.11 to do it.
We'll follow him in a jam.
You see what he wants to do is he wants to open 27 different directories and then he wants to have...
Beagle automatically update the indexes for the directories as he moves through them so that they scroll really slowly.
Oh, I found it.
There's another icon called Split.
Oh, name up there.
If you remember what you said about reading...
Oh, you're right.
That monster V.
You want the little file tree too, Peter.
Don't you?
No, that's good.
That's split up.
See over there at places.
Click on that and you can turn that into...
Can't you turn it into a tree view?
It's still ugly, but...
Change the color of it, you wanker.
And it's...
Yeah.
It's not horizontal.
I thought the people I could customize all the things and everything else.
That would be an interesting idea.
They should have like little...
We should have little...
Like sound icons for clicking on stuff and things.
They do for some programs, but not all of them.
Which reminds me, I should go change all the default...
Genome sounds, because the default sounds suck horribly.
You're supposed to tell us about Bloody Pulse Audio.
Oh yeah, and how it still doesn't work for shit, because it crashes,
because they have this new glitch free thing, which isn't really glitch free.
It's like, let's add glitches to your audio.
It's the one.
Yeah.
Does it crash hard for you too?
If you open three or four streams, you can usually get Pulse Audio to crash fairly regularly.
Which happens to me frequently, because I have sound for everything, so I open like, you know.
If three people send me an IM, and exactly the same time, my Pulse Audio will crash.
Oh man.
Yeah, because it has to play three separate sounds, and it doesn't mix them.
So, because it doesn't buffer the audio, it just sends it straight to the card.
And then it uses timers, so that the card knows when...
Like, it sends the audio to the card, and then waits for the card to tell it that it actually played the audio.
And then it figures out how long that took, and schedules all the mixing, so that it happens on some kind of timer.
Instead of just buffering a bunch of audio and dumping it at the card, and then buffering a bunch more audio and dumping it at the card, and so on.
So, instead of... so that's why it crashes, because it keeps readjusting the timer when it schedules things.
And so it's constantly waking itself up, trying to schedule a bunch of new sounds, and yeah, it's just a really bad idea.
The concept is good, but...
It doesn't really work.
So, the two questions that we wanted to confirm, the old Dragonbird from 330, I guess, were disduching.
No, that was quite easy, sir.
Sorry, I was checking it must be I like cheese, just if you wanted to hear it, I'm sure.
There were the basically two questions. One was, is pulse audio designed for high quality or low quality?
Did it pick up the best sound?
It's designed for desktop audio, which means it's designed.
If you look on the pulse audio mailing list, I don't remember the exact quote, but it had the words...
It had the words gold and cables somewhere in there.
But it's basically, the guy who wrote pulse audio doesn't test it with anything except, you know, on-board crap sound that comes with your motherboard.
And so, he figures that you shouldn't even need to have a sound card in your computer, because unless you're concerned about gold cables and actually decent quality audio, then, you know, it's not designed for low latency, it's not designed for anything.
It's just designed so that the ND user can get sound out of his desktop.
Well, I can definitely say that three audio streams did not crash my pulse audio.
No, okay. Well, I haven't tried it.
I haven't tried it.
Okay, I haven't tried it. Keep trying streams and then, like, crashes. It should be about five or six at least.
I was going to say the second question was about...
As soon as I remember you saying that the guy who develops pulse thinks you don't need anything but an on-board card or that you kind of answered that.
Yeah, that's what he does. He doesn't test it with anything other than on-board cards.
Specifically, the Intel... or the HDA Intel module, which is not high definition audio, as the name might suggest.
Yeah, it's pretty bad when a sound card that was first manufactured, like, 12 years ago, was kicking the crap out of current on-board audio.
In which card would that be?
The M audio card that I have. Any of the M audio Delta cards.
Now, how do you think sound blaster live cards stack up against your M audio?
Actually, I replaced my sound blaster autogy for the M audio card.
The rear jacks on those are great. The front jacks are sucky on your sound blaster cards because there's two different...
There's two different... DSTs. One in the rear jack is better than the one in the front jack.
By quite a bit, I used to plug the... I used to plug my two speakers into the surround jack because it had much better frequency response.
Which also makes it suck if you actually have a surround system because then the rear speakers are about twice as loud as the front speakers and trying to get the volumes to reasonably decent levels as a pain.
Now, that's something I've never tried setting up is surround sound audio under Linux.
Yeah. Surround sound is basically a waste for audio anyways because music is only ever recorded in two channels unless you get one of those fancy...
There's this weird DVD format that's like four channels but it doesn't add anything. All it does is make the same sound come from different directions.
Are you talking about maybe SA CD?
Yeah, that's it. SA CD DVD thing.
Yeah, they just take the same sound stream and they put it through four channels instead of...
You're basically getting the same sound that comes through the front left speaker also comes through the rear speaker at the right or something and it's just like completely not useful.
It's good for movies but surround for music is almost pointless because if you're listening to something live, it's not like the band is going to stand behind you and play anyway.
Well, you're really getting extra echo from the other speakers.
The games out there that use surround sound to it's panic.
Oh yeah, games use it. Games and movies use it but for music it's useless.
But yeah, there's actually even some audio games that were designed for blind people where they use surround to tell you where your position is relative to other things that might be attacking you or whatever.
So if something is coming up from behind you, you can hear it from over there and you can coordinate your sound.
It has its uses but the way that M audio handles that is they put all that they make you use a receiver if you need surround.
So the card supports it but you have to plug in a receiver because it doesn't have jacks on the card for enough stuff to do surround.
Which is what you want anyway because if you have enough speakers that you need surround, you probably have a big home theater system or something that you can do that with.
It's interesting that you mentioned that because pulse audio will not work by default with your surround setup.
You actually have to go in and tell it that you have front and center and all the various channels.
And you have to put them in the right order and then you have to disable how because how is retardant and won't remember that you told that you had six channel last time.
The access text on everything here.
You're 64 and have you ever tried looking at a commander or crusader I mean?
Oh yeah, I've heard of that one actually. That is like a midnight commander, right?
Yeah, it's a midnight manor style KD3 and 4 file manager.
Yeah, Peter 64 dropped off but speaking of midnight, it's getting late so I'm going to end this show and then we can go into the after show.
And I forgot to say at the beginning but this was episode seven.
And our next tip radio will be September 5th seems like a long time but actually that's only a couple weeks for now.
I should tempt HPR.
Yeah, actually.
Very low that you are now listening to.
We need, we want more hosts because one of the powerful things about hacker public radio is that lots of different people do lots of different shows on lots of different topics.
And so yeah, I guess I'm doing the calendar now so I'm kind of always looking for new hosts, new topics, stuff like that.
So if you want to do a show for hacker public radio, it doesn't have to be long, it can be like, you know, two minutes, it can be 20 minutes, it can be two hours, whatever you think is appropriate for the topic.
Just let me know about it or do it and then send it to me or whatever.
It's like to hacker public radio.org.
And the feedback for this show or the email address for this show is feedback at titrino.info.
And I'll talk to everyone in two weeks.
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