hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr0732.txt

Episode: 732
Title: HPR0732: sikilpaake and badbit - spics on tech - episode 02
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0732/hpr0732.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-08 01:41:14

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Grading around by the
We got a second on fish and caught an old door,
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Background music
My keyboard is ready, faithin'
Queen, hold me here!
My keyboard is your DA!
My keyboard is ready, faithin'
I was selected
Today, the killing was put in place
Soidade didn't disappear
That he might stand another
Today
He was good
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I'm doing good, you know, we gotta we gotta get the show on the road though, okay?
Okay, we both both you and me we got stuff to do. I'm proud of planning the show. I want to do the show already.
Okay, let's do it then. Okay, so let's see, what did we hear? We just heard of the top of the show. We heard these very famous people called
hermanos calderon hermanos calderon el caiman. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, I'll put that in the show notes. Okay, so what are we, what are we talking about this?
So you went to the hacker space, the north lab. Yeah, I have good news and bad news.
Okay, let's, let's, let's introduce it a little bit though, because maybe some, maybe the last show we talked a little bit about a hacker space.
There was an event that there was going to be organized at this hacker space. You were going to go. It was an ensinada, which is right south of Tijuana, which is at the north, northwestern, most part of Mexico.
Ensinada, we talked about Ensinada being a really cool place. A lot of science goes on there. A lot of research, a lot of technology. And so, so what, what happened? How did it go?
Do you want the good news or the bad news first? Let's do the bad news first. The bad news. Okay. Okay. The bad news or at least I was a kind of disappointed with this is that
north lab that is called a hacker space is listed in hackerspaces.org. It's not really a hacker space. It's more of organized collective.
And they organize events and workshops and everything, but there isn't any space. There is a physical space. When I asked the guy that where was the hacker space, he said that it was kind of a cyber space.
So I was kind of disappointed, but there's a lot of good news. Okay. Cool. All right. Are they planning to? I'm sorry. Are they planning? Are they looking for a place like an actual physical place? Then, I mean, is that plan for the future somehow?
Okay. Let me tell you how it went. I went there. I went to Seattle that it's a center for arts and culture. And it's another and all in in Baja. And I went there. I met the guy and I went because there was going to be a workshop called electronics for artists.
So that was really exciting. And there were a lot of people like 17, 18, 18 and the guy and said, come this way. And we went to a backstage full of stuff, you know, tables with electrical outlets and everything. I thought that was the hacker space. So I was really excited because looked really cool.
Wow. But I asked him, is this a hacker space? Because I don't see a lot of computer stuff. There was a lot of, you know, stuff used in theater and everything. He said, no, this is a space for, you know, like a storage space.
Like a storage, like a storage. Yeah, it was used for lots of. It was like a multi use space and many people went like 18 and most not notably a guy from Narteck, Bostich was there, several people were they were the hipsters.
You could divide it in two people, people that knew a lot of electronics, but nothing about art and people that knew about lots of art and nothing about electronics. So it was difficult.
It was pulling into the typical two camps that always go to these kinds of events.
Of course. No, everywhere, you know, and so that guy Miguel Monroe, it's the head of North Lab or the founder. He works in Seattle. And he's in charge of the multimedia department, something like that. He uses Seattle to.
Wait, hold on. What's what's out there? And what is that? It's a cultural center that has gallery, projection room, stage for plays has a little bookstore, several artistic, you know, spaces.
But what I found remarkable about this guy that he's introducing technological elements to that place. So that's that's really cool.
That guy is really convinced of the hacker and I gave that once information to be free and that looks or approach work as again.
And he is a graphical designer. He's not. He likes programming, but he's he didn't study and his thesis is about the graphical interface of a linear Argentinian Linux distribution. So what's the name of it? I don't even remember.
But I think his work is really useful because, you know, even distribution like February or Ubuntu, sometimes have terrible design choices.
Yeah, we're going to talk a lot about that in this show actually. What's the guy's name like the organizer?
So he was a graphic designer first and then like moved on to more.
He already programmed before he was a graphic designer because he's that something in electronics he works on and he always liked it and he told me something that even when he was a child, he started with Commodore 64 and to learn basic when he was.
Yeah, this is 64. He's got to be a hacker. You know, you can't go wrong. Yeah, I was surprised at his way of thinking. Have you read the hacker ethic by Becca humanon a book? No.
It's a wonderful description of hackers, classical hackers in the way of Lina Starballs in the way of Steve Wozniak and that guy practically fits in the description that that book makes about hackers.
There was a pure data workshop in Tijuana at this place hacker workshops in Tijuana or something like that related mostly to media as well because that's that's kind of one of the things that I start seeing a lot with or sort of jumbled up or jumbled into or or mashed into the whole hacker scene.
Yeah, these guys are really ambitious in their own field. They want they're not limited to they want it all. You know, yeah, they want to use these really strange, wonderful and powerful frameworks for doing live multimedia.
They're more should they connect to it the better. And they're always doing this all these. Yeah, they're combining lasers with with LiDAR and Xbox connect, you know, to scan the room and if people are jumping, then the music changes pitch and you know all that crazy.
Okay, here's the here's the here's the side I was looking for actually here you go.
Yeah, I just just sent it to you. So as you can see, I tried to find these guys, they don't answer the phone.
Yeah, I have been calling them. Yeah, I don't know if this.
I think this brought a lot of this stir of.
Even these are they don't answer emails. They don't answer the phone. So I don't know what's up with them. It's fake.
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if we should I don't know if we should restart recording because the.
Yeah, it's the song quality is really bad actually really well, maybe we should go to a song.
All right, I like shiptunes and this MP3 it's a song by a guy nicknamed little scale.
And it's part of a kind of a contest called laser scale 2010 that consisted in like five guys,
shiptune artist making one song a day every day in 2010. So they ended up with 365 songs each.
And this was one of them number 16. I am guessing this was composed in January 16.
This song is obviously made with a NES ship.
It's called demons that the bar human flesh. Let's hear it.
All right, and we're back. Okay, and we have to wrap it up. Yes, yeah.
So right, so I just basically just wanted to say that there's all these kinds of meetings at 2600 meetings a super happy dev house.
There's this other kind of beating every month or so. It's kind of web related.
It's more of a financial sort of networking sort of sort of investor networking thing.
It's Mexico only or Latin America only called the key Laval.
It's not so cool, but you know, it is what it is and it's kind of interesting.
Sometimes a lot of people locally a lot of people have been kind of shunning it kind of saying like,
yeah, we really don't want to go there anymore because not a lot of stuff happens.
And it's not really it's not really technical.
And it's not also and it's also not there's not a lot of investors going around.
So I mean, what so the meeting kind of you know, since there's no real like a focus to it.
It's it gets kind of pointless.
So people it's been dwindling down.
Then we mentioned the protolab guys, the guys who kind of packed up overnight and have never been seen from again.
This mysterious as the hack lab, which we just found out about that we really don't have any clue and we haven't we don't have any time to read it on the air and kind of elaborate on it.
But we'll get back to you.
We'll get back to you guys.
We'll explore all this and we'll maybe we can come up with some sort of improvised kind of classification of of hack of different hackers, different hacker meetings, different hacker spaces.
So back to you.
You wanted to talk about your experiences with the Kindle.
So what's what's going on?
Well, maybe my experiences with my Game Boy flashcards would be more interesting.
Okay.
The Kindle.
Maybe later.
So that's that.
So what about what about the Game Boy?
What did you do with it?
Is this a Game Boy Advance?
The Game Boy?
No, Game Boy Color.
I'm really old school with my gaming consoles 1998 Game Boy Color.
I recently bought Game Boy Color and my real interest in it.
It wasn't because of the games was more because I wanted to buy a flash cartridge.
It was the game point.
Well, I like Pokemon, but it's more like there's a blank cartridge custom made.
And you can put whatever room you like in that cartridge through a USB cable.
So there's a piece from SDA.
It's used for chip tunes.
It's really hard to use.
Really.
It's not really intuitive.
What's the name of the software again?
LSDJ.
It's really cool.
I mean, you can make music through the ship of the Game Boy.
It sounds really authentic.
It is authentic.
Right.
It's the real game.
And a lot of performers use the live on stage.
That's something that I want to learn how to use all.
How long do you think it's going to take until you make your own tune?
I mean, this would be a nice place to debut your masterpiece, you know?
Yeah, that's a high top of it, but I don't know.
It's really difficult to use.
I mean, you have to learn from scratch.
I mean, the screen just shows you some numbers like this.
It only shows you binary.
Almost.
It's almost X.
I mean, almost X.
I mean, it's like.
Is it in green and black?
Have you seen X editors?
Exodesimal editors?
Well, I know what X is, but I've never used a hex editor.
It's harder than that.
More or less the same interface.
Is it green and black?
Why?
Japanese characters running down the screen.
It wouldn't be much different to me.
It would be the same.
I will send you a screenshot.
So you can see it for it.
It's actually X.
I'm looking at it.
So how long do you think it'll take until you make a decent chip tune from that?
I'm guessing like a year or half a year.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Okay.
We'll be close on your progress, then.
We'll be checking into that every few podcasts.
Maybe I'll show you something next time.
So you can ask.
You could just say it's a really minimalist tune inspired by Brianino or something like that.
Thachhausen or Philip Glass or something like that.
That would be probably a good idea.
We're talking of smooth transitions.
Let's talk about it.
Let's bash unity.
Okay.
Yeah.
Talk about that.
A lot of people are becoming really unhappy.
First of all, we're talking about Ubuntu because last podcast I said you Ubuntu, which is wrong.
You got to pronounce it the right way, which is without the Ubuntu.
Ubuntu 11.04.
If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time that a unity interface comes by default.
Oh, well, if you count the netbook spin in the netbook spin, unity was default.
I do have a netbook, but I didn't try it on that because I like you look.
Let's get one thing straight.
One thing that netbooks or least netbooks when I still had the money to buy one.
They're not really conceived or made.
They're not resource.
They're not fast machines.
They're not powerful.
Oh, they're really slow.
They're really slow.
They're really strapped from memory.
Strapped for a lot of things.
So I don't really understand why they would release unity for a netbook.
I mean, I haven't even tested unity.
I despised it so much.
I've seen videos, read a lot of reviews.
And I've read the conceptual, you know, the reasons behind why they want to do it.
The general principles, the implementation.
And I don't like any of that.
I don't even like how it looks.
I mean, I've been following Ubuntu since 8.04.
And I've always liked how it looked.
And this is the first time I really don't like how it works.
I don't like how it feels.
It's just.
Yeah.
Where do we want to start with this?
So how are we going to, you know, bash unity?
There's so much ground to cover and we don't have a lot of time.
So how are we going to do that?
Or do you want me to start?
There's nothing unity.
There's nothing unity has that genome doesn't have.
Right.
It just takes up more screen space.
You have e-con bar in the left side of the screen.
But it's huge.
It's huge.
It takes up a lot of screen real estate.
And also when you use that kind of menus for installing new apps and to browse your apps and everything.
It's kind of more steps to do the same shit.
Right.
I don't like that.
That's a good point.
I'm using the new Ubuntu, but it's classic Ubuntu.
I love genome.
I love simple interfaces.
I love open box.
Command line.
Command line.
I love the simple stuff.
I don't like I like animation, but I don't need animation.
I don't need huge icons.
I don't need these two-bit menus.
I don't know.
I don't like Mac OS.
I would buy a Mac if I would like that kind of interface.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm too drastic, but that's how I feel.
No, yeah.
I mean, you're absolutely right.
I think that a lot of people kind of they don't really understand, you know, they don't understand graphic design.
And I mean that.
Yeah.
I don't mean that in the sort of, oh, artsy-farty sort of, you know, art-fag slash hipster sort of way.
I mean, in the real sense, I mean, the real rules about just real graphic design.
They don't understand graphic design.
And the other thing they don't understand is they don't seem to understand interaction design.
Yeah.
It goes hand in hand with graphic design.
Interaction design is even, is more of an art?
Is more of a science?
Yeah.
You know, we have to take into account human psychology, behavior, perception, cognitive science.
All these other fields, it's a very, it's a very nascent field is just, is just coming up.
And, and also it's a very multidisciplinary field.
There's a lot of disciplines that contribute to, to, to interaction design.
And you really have to think stuff through.
And you have to settle on interaction patterns and getting people to what you just said.
I mean, that's, that's a really good criteria.
It's not the only criteria, but it's a very good criteria that you point it out.
You, you have to make it so people have to click less to, to be able to make the same things.
Or if they're going to click more, at least say, well, they click more, but, you know, they have more functionality.
Or it's more simple.
Or whatever, they get their work done easier or faster or whatever.
They don't understand how graphic design work.
They don't know how interaction design works.
They just copy what they think that it works somewhere else.
Because let me tell you, like, my girlfriend bought a Mac.
And even she complains that the interface is very unintuitive sometimes.
And I've seen, and I've seen that.
I mean, she's showed it to me.
They just try to say, oh, okay, well, Mac OSX is like the pinnacle of interaction design
and everything's perfect with it.
Let's just, let's just copy it.
But let's not just copy what they do.
Let's try to make it like better.
And, but also let's not only try to make it better.
Let's try to make it like tweak it so much so we don't get sued.
So what do you end up?
You end up with shit.
It just, it just doesn't work because then it never gets start out.
It doesn't, it doesn't, it seems like unity and the unity team or Ubuntu or whatever.
They kind of need like a really to think, to think, to rethink.
They're not their development schedule or anything like that.
But to have like a beta team or a beta research, whatever, whatever that's called.
Like a filter.
You know, the people who like beta test their the graphic interfaces.
Yeah, I mean, that's a great idea.
I mean, they should test these not only with coders, not only with programmers.
Right.
They're not only with their own coders and programmers.
But with other people, other programmers or just other people just use.
People that know that kind of interface theory.
Right.
It kind of reveals in a certain way how little emphasis this this company has in terms of basic.
I don't know quality control.
Common sense, you know, I just have this inkling.
I mean, Mark Schottelworth wasn't he like the second guy to the second space tourist or something.
I have the Wikipedia that real quick.
Here you go South African entrepreneur space space adventures tourists.
There you go space light.
So this guy went to space.
I mean, whatever the hell.
I mean, I'm not going to knock knock on him for being a space tourist.
That's great and all.
And I'm glad he started Ubuntu.
It's a great project.
And then we had really great intentions.
But I think that this this guy is kind of suffering from the Apple job.
Apple jobs, Apple Steve jobs, whatever.
The Steve sort of syndrome because he's kind of.
I understand that he's trying to make a brand.
I understand he's trying to do innovative stuff.
I understand he's trying to make a distro.
That has real value, not only real value, but value that kind of distinguishes it.
From other distros, right?
None of them stand out.
So I understand this strategy.
There's not only the technical strategy, but the branding strategy.
You're trying to try to distinguish itself from from the other alternatives.
Even then, I mean, even then, I mean, you have to understand that there's ways.
I mean, even if that's a really good strategy, you kind of under have to.
Not another idea that comes to your head that you think it's a good idea is really a good idea.
It's not subjective like that.
It's not like if I think it's a good idea, therefore it is.
No.
You know, and the other thing is like not only that because that's kind of like putting it in a very megalomaniac sort of narcissistic light, which I.
I don't have a cast.
But I just I just think that I mean Steve Jobs doesn't do that.
I mean, he every every time like a good idea comes to him or he.
He has a new idea for a feature in in OS X and the devices or whatever.
He implements it one at a time so people can sort of grow into the idea.
He can sort of gouge how people are responding to it.
And if the idea doesn't catch on or doesn't work or people just don't like it or ignore it, he just phases it out.
If you introduce too much too many ideas at the same time, you're just going to like overload people and then they're not.
I mean, they're going to have so many complaints.
They're really not find a good way to.
I mean, I'm sure there's like a barrage of complaints about this thing.
And you see the on YouTube, you just see, you know, so many complaints.
So I just think that shadow work is kind of boxing the project in.
He's doing this whole sort of world garden thing.
We're like, oh, don't worry.
Remember XP, the first the first version of XP is like, yeah.
Hey, junior, just let daddy do it.
Everything was a wizard.
Yeah, you know, put this wool over your eyes, you know,
boot your faith in Microsoft.
Flogito y cooperando, you know, all that.
I mean, what are they going to do next?
I mean, are they going to say like, oh, well, you know, the GNU or BSD TCP stack.
That's not good enough.
We're going to make our own TCP IP stack.
What is it going to go next?
I mean, they're going to do their own file system too.
Or what?
What?
I hope he doesn't listen to the show.
So you don't give him any ideas.
Well, I don't know.
Well, it's a debate.
I mean, you could argue that that kind of choices are also freedom.
But I don't know.
It's still you think it's I'm framing the debate in too much of a simplistic sort of dichotomous.
It's like a fake deck dichotomy.
You think it's more, you think it's more complex than that?
What I'm saying is that in Linux or GNU gives you the freedom to make to not use Ubuntu.
Exactly.
And gives Ubuntu the freedom to make their own files.
And I mean, you choose if you use it or not.
But I mean, is it really necessary though?
And why is it so necessary?
No, not really.
I mean, I don't think so.
Okay.
That's a good point.
Just because it allows it doesn't mean that it's, you know, it's actually good because you're getting locked in.
Right?
Okay.
So, I mean, what is the project?
I see your point now.
No, you don't.
So you can shut up now.
I see your point.
Yeah.
All right.
So is that, is that, is that, is that, is that the show?
Do we want to talk about?
I guess so.
Do we want to talk about the lotting?
I have more editing time for you.
I'll, I'll promise, I promise to keep quiet.
I just, I just wanted to bring up the legalities of it.
I don't, I mean, I'm glad it happened somehow, but I'm kind of sketchy.
The legalities of having it done it, I've having done it that way.
It's a little, are a little bit sketchy.
So I'm, I'm kind of interested.
I'm putting out my lawyers, my international lawyers hat for that.
That's the way I, that's the way I'm kind of going to perceive the whole news.
That's, that's my interest towards it.
I don't have any opinion though, but how about you?
What do you, what do you think?
Well, I'm, I'm also happy that bin Laden is no longer around.
Well, the incident about the, the view is that they ceased a lot of computer stuff.
They confiscated computer hard drives, CDs, the house where some of bin Laden lived and died.
They, it didn't have a telephone and an internet connection.
So that was wise from a security standpoint.
And I'm, I'm really curious as what security measures Al Qaeda had for their information.
The right now it's been analyzed and they already uploaded some videos of some of bin Laden talking and watching himself on TV.
And, but I want to know if they used encryption or what, what was their securities approach because they are the United States news departments and the government has always told us that they used secret methods of communications and they how they have had this really advanced, you know, really advanced communication.
But I wonder if that's true, I want to know if they used encryption, if they, if they had passwords in their computers, that's what interest, but they, they haven't released too much information about it.
All right, I guess that, that does it for the show.
You got a lot of editing to do because we, we kind of suck, I suck in English.
You don't suck in English. That's the problem. You, you're really good at English. You kind of get nervous and then you start sucking and then that makes me nervous.
And I start, it becomes a suck, but English suck.
I know I, I last episode that we received comments. I was, wow, somebody actually listened to the show.
So I, I'm more nervous now because I know people are going to listen and there are people that speak English.
But I'm, I'm happy that we're, we're doing this because I want to improve.
So you have to practice if you want to improve.
For me, at least, you know, two of us speaking English sucks.
It's, it's really tiring. I mean, it's, it's really a mental effort.
Yes, it is. It's intellectually demanding sometimes.
Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I'm tired. And I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I, I'm hungry right now.
Okay. You're, you're sugar levels gone down. Yeah.
Blood pressure has probably gone down to or up on unrelated note.
Well, for everybody other, for all your fans. Yeah, for my fans, I wanted a diet.
It worked wonderful. But I'm now below my healthy weight.
Oh, shit. I overdid my diet. So I'm not, yeah, I'm unhealthy on the other side of the pain.
And I'm that happy note. Yes. I have to gain weight. So I'm going to eat a pizza tonight.
Great. Next, next up podcast will put your physical address so they can send you, they'll send you some gifts.
Donald's gift cards or something.
I really appreciate if somebody would send me a Kevin Midnick business card. I sent him five dollars.
Maybe they got lost in the mail, but I never received my business card. So maybe I could give my PO box.
I'll send you one for ten bucks. It'll be fake, but you know, whatever.
Okay. From, so from Yucatan, this is Sikilpake.
And this is Mexico from the other corner of the country. We couldn't be more far away.
That's true. We tried. But okay. I enjoyed this. Even if it was really exhausting.
Even if you still have to edit. Yeah. And I have to, I have lots to do.
Oh, me too. All right. Yeah. All right. Good night, everybody.
Good night. See you.
If you're talking about the motion.
Now you must drink the poison.
Yes, we are so superstitious.
And we feel like we have visions of tomorrow.
See stars and see the mirror.
You'll find an empty kingdom of the future.
Let's begin with something simple.
Like we're looking for a symbol.
You're running to a temple.
The structures of the past.
The main gate is wide open.
Welcome pieces of an idol broken.
Darkness fills the space now.
The electric mask begins.
I remember you were nothing.
You're nothing. I'll go switch.
It's all the future.
And nothingness is a state of our double years.
When we all fight.
Always for us.
Do things that you want now.
Everybody you need.
Happiness.
Because I keep them up tomorrow.
Yeah.
That lovelyness is a state of our double years.
When we go fight.
Always for us.
Do things that you want now.
Everybody you need.
Happiness.
Because I keep them up tomorrow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you for listening to Haftler Public Radio.
HPR is sponsored by Carol.net, so head on over to C-A-R-O dot E-N-C for all of her dreams.