hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr0988.txt

Episode: 988
Title: HPR0988: LFNW: Dawn McKenna of McKenna Interpreting Services
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0988/hpr0988.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-17 17:02:44

---

So
Hello, this is David and I'm at Linux Fest Northwest, and I'm talking to Don McKenna from
McKenna Interpreting Surfaces, and so Donna, we're lucky to get a table next to you, so
can you tell us about what you're doing at Linux Fest Northwest?
I can.
I'd say I'm the lucky one, since you shared your power with me this weekend, I really appreciate
that.
I'm at Linux Fest Northwest this weekend, this is our second year that we've been here,
and it's the only way I know how to give back to this community that's given me a lot.
And so I provide interpreting services, and I gather both to attain national certification
level.
They're going to be requiring a BA degree, just to be eligible to sit for the test.
Okay.
Of course, when you're ready for the test, what is that in tail?
That in tail is going through an interpreter training program, getting some real life experience
with the community, because of course what they teach you in school is a very formal version
of the language, not the colloquial everyday use of the language and how the community
uses it.
So you really have to split your time between the formal college and then immersing yourself
in the community and learning how they really use it every day.
So you have to get some real life experience, and then you pay a lot of money to RID,
and you have to take first a written test, which is based on ethics theory and law regarding
the ADA and things like that.
And then after that, if you pass the written test, you can pay another fee and take the performance
exam.
And that's a videotape exam, which includes an ethical interview and basic interpreting
situations, and then that gets submitted to several Raiders, and then they decide if you
pass or fail, and either you get your certification or you don't.
So obviously you've passed your certification.
I have.
And then so how many interpreters would you say are available in the, say, Puget Sound
area of Washington State?
Do you have any idea?
Well, I have a better idea of Washington State as a whole.
We have, as far as members of our local chapter, which is the Washington State Registry of
Interpreters for the Deaf.
We have about 225 members, but not all interpreters in our state or members of the local chapter.
Some of them may be members of the Oregon RID chapter or the Idaho RID chapter, some of
our neighboring states.
So I don't have the numbers on that.
My best guess, and this is really a guess, would maybe be anywhere between three to 400,
but about 225 are actual members of our local organization, and I've been a board member.
I recently resigned, but I was a board member for five years, so I'm pretty knowledgeable
about the numbers of at least our membership of the local organization.
So deaf and blind people, of course, I say blind.
Deaf people are going to need assistance for an interpreter.
So do people have trouble connecting up, getting interpreters?
So I guess I'm asking whether your services are easy to connect with on a professional level,
of course, or so would it be hard for someone who needs your services to get your services
in a metropolitan area?
No, not particularly.
There's several avenues that any entity or person could hire a sign language interpreter.
In almost every city, there'll be a variety of language agencies that will provide the service,
but also the registry of interpreters for the deaf has a search engine to look for interpreters
in your area, and when you do that, it will say whether they're certified or not, what certification
they hold, and if they're available for freelance work or not.
So you can access that list that way and try to direct contact an interpreter if you wish,
but otherwise the other avenue would be going through an agency.
So when you're here at the Linux Fest, we're talking about our sessions are about things
software related and dealing with computers.
Is that any more difficult to do sign language interpretation for, then say something where you
were at another event, say just a regular lecture?
Yes, every kind of event is difficult in its own way.
Jargon is a major issue, so we definitely have to negotiate signs and how we interpret
specific vocabulary to certain fields.
And some interpreters are already very knowledgeable in computer tech speak and know some of the
signs.
We do have some deaf programmers in the Seattle area that work with a lot of interpreters,
and they've been kind enough to share the signs that they have come up with with the interpreters,
and those have kind of spread through the community.
Otherwise we kind of negotiate what kind of sign language to use for certain terms
in vocabulary.
Of course, I have an attended a session where you've been signing, so give us an example
of where if someone needed your services, you were in the session, would you be getting
visual feedback from them as whether they're understanding them as you're doing the interpreting
of the session?
Typically we do, yes.
And also, our deaf community is really great.
If they see an interpreter is struggling with a certain vocabulary word or concept, and
they know a specific sign for that vocabulary, for example, they'll give us the sign for
that in the moment while we're interpreting.
And then we just incorporate it right then into our interpretation and go on with the
lecture.
Okay.
Real good.
Sounds really difficult to me to be a sign language interpreter.
I know you watch this on TV a bit and see it around.
And so I'm curious as to how many years it took you or months to get into the sign language
interpreting where you could actually feel comfortable doing interpreting for people.
After graduation, it took me about three years before I felt comfortable enough to take
the national level certification exam.
And it varies with individuals.
It depends on how involved you are with the deaf community itself.
The more events, the more involved you are with the deaf community, the more fluent your
language becomes.
And then your interpreting becomes more fluent as a result of that as well.
And then of course, immersing yourself in work definitely makes a difference, working
a lot and working with other experienced interpreters who can guide you and help you.
That's a major component of what we do.
I have several mentors.
I would never be without a mentor.
I, one of my mentors who's been in the field for over 45 years, she still has mentors.
And it's language, right?
And language is constantly growing and changing.
Just like in the English language, we constantly have new vocabulary added because new technologies
come out.
So they have to create new words and new definitions.
And it's a parallel in the deaf community with sign language.
The deaf community is constantly coming up with new signs.
So I'm always learning.
Always always.
I've never been learning that language because it's always changing.
Okay.
So if a person wanted to explore getting into sign language interpretation, would they use
internet resources like say, YouTube or something to kind of get a feel for what's going
on and get started?
Or where would they go for something like that?
YouTube has a plethora of videos available of all kinds.
There's videos of deaf people doing some lectures.
There's videos of ASL students doing homework.
There's all kinds of videos out there available.
A good resource if they really want to become an interpreter.
You can go to the RID website and they have a full listing of all the institutions that
offer an interpreter training program and the contact information there.
And that would be a really great place to start.
Plus, they have basic information on the field of interpreting and that's a really good
place to look for that.
So if a family member or a neighbor wants to communicate with someone who has a need
for sign language interpretation, how would they go about getting more familiar?
Would that be the channel to go then, is for YouTube or would you find someone around
the city or at to get some help?
Well, if you're speaking about in more of a conversation, all you have a neighbor or
something that you want to chat with, is that what you're asking?
Yes.
If you've lost the fence or seen if they need some help with something once in a while
or you want to be able to understand when they do need help.
Right.
So the first thing to do would be to ask that person their preferred method of communication
and the way you can ask them that would be to ask right a note.
Okay.
And ask them what's the best way to communicate with you?
And they'll be really open about letting you know the best way to communicate with them.
Writing on a note for short things or the neighborly kind of talk is a great way to go.
The other thing you can do is learn the manual alphabet and there's only 26 letters in
our alphabet, right?
Okay.
You can learn the alphabet in a month's time if you learned a letter a day, right?
Right.
And then you can finger spell words with them and eventually deaf people will teach you
signs.
When they see you spelling a word or struggling with something, they'll just show you
the sign when you're chatting with them.
And that would be another avenue and texting works great as well or instant messenger.
That works really well.
Any email too?
You know of any computer-related technical ways that people could communicate with a deaf
person.
Is there like a text-to-speech application where you could have like, we're hooked up to
a microphone here where that would be connected up to someone else's computer and you could
talk that way and it would type it out.
You see anything like this?
I know there's some things like that available.
The speech recognition is not that great right now.
For example, on YouTube, they have a new captioning service on the videos where it's a speech
recognition type of captioning service.
It's not very accurate yet.
So I think there's a long way to go before something like that becomes actually viable.
But there are some people developing things like that and I haven't researched it very
deeply.
I know it's out there and I know they're not very accurate.
I've used the YouTube captioning to try to see how accurate it is and it hasn't been
very accurate so far.
So I'm not sure where they're going to go with that.
I'm curious when you do sign language interpretation.
Of course, you did a little bit for me yesterday and you don't spell things out of course.
You have more signs or more or broader range where you're doing flowing motions that people
understand.
Are you doing like syllables in sign language or how is the connection, say with what you
understand, someone is saying something and you can hear this and want to communicate
it to a deaf person.
How do you interpret that?
I just take it in and then actually transmit that message.
Right.
We do something called simultaneous interpreting and I'll give you an example.
Most spoken language interpreters, you'll generally see them listen to somebody speaking
in a foreign language and then the speaker will stop and pause.
And then the interpreter will go ahead and interpret that whole chunk and that's called
consecutive and then they go back to the speaker and they go back and forth in that fashion.
When your simultaneous interpreting, you're listening to the message, your brain is translating
it, then we put it out in sign language and while we're doing that, we're listening
to the next part of the message at the same time and it's a lot of brain work.
And that's why any assignment over generally an hour, especially if it stems in content,
we work in pairs and we trade off every 20 minutes or so to give our brains a rest.
Now American Sign Language is a foreign language and it has a different grammar structure than
English has.
So we have to listen to the message, understand the content and the meaning and then we
move all the grammar around and put it to ASL grammar and express it in a signed form.
And then the reverse happens when the deaf person is signing, we receive it in a different
grammar structure than English and translate it in our head and then it comes out of our
mouth in a spoken form.
Oh, this is really interesting.
So it's pretty intense but do you find yourself on a normal conversation being able to
sign very, very fluidly then?
I mean, it's just like second nature to you or are you having to actually focus real
hard in order to do the signing?
For just normal conversation, that's fairly easy going but when we're talking about
say the sessions here at Linux Fest where there's really intense computer jargon and
sometimes they're talking about coding language which isn't English either, right?
I mean, that's the whole other animal.
What is definitely more intense?
When you've had people that have used your services or that you know of that have used
your services at say the Linux Fest Northwest, then are these people, would you say, hobbyists
as computer users or are there actually people that are developers that you've worked with
or do you know?
You know, we haven't had a lot of people here at the Fest yet although I imagine if once
we get the word out into the community more, I think we would have a variety.
I think we could have a mix of users and programmers potentially here definitely.
Yeah.
So when you, we think about US market for Linux cons, Linux Fest, open source software,
gatherings and that, do you know of any others that are using your service?
There are no other Fest that are providing free sign language interpreting services.
There aren't any Fest that I know of that have any interpreters available at all.
Linux Fest Northwest is the only one that I know of so far that is providing that service.
So would you be a good person to contact if another Fest or Linux Con or whatever needs
to or wants to have sign language interpreting?
You're welcome to contact me and I'd be happy to try to advise them in any way I can
for their regional area, the best way to maybe source some of the local interpreters who
might be willing to provide services.
Okay, and that would be probably the most economical way to get this service out of another Linux
Fest for gathering correct.
If you're looking for volunteers, it's definitely going to be the most economical way to look
locally.
My language interpreters, we spend a lot of money to maintain our certifications and to
go to school and it can be what a business perceives as maybe expensive to hire a sign
language interpreter, depending on your perspective, but my attitude towards this is this community
has really given me a lot and helped me in a lot of ways as a user and I wanted myself
to give back to this community and the only way I knew how.
I don't know if other areas will have interpreters who feel the same way, but we do try to give
a portion of our time to our deaf community along with working for fees and if there are
some interpreters in the area that are passionate about open source and providing volunteer
quality volunteer and services, then I would definitely reach out to the local interpreting
community.
So let's give your contact information where someone could reach you if they were
interested in getting more information.
Okay.
So an email address?
Email is the definitely the most effective way to contact me and my email address is spider
tarp-s-p-i-d-e-r-t-e-r-p at gmail.com.
Okay.
That should be.
That's a of course a unique address.
Yes.
We all have.
So I want to go to the other side of the equation is you use open source software for your
work.
Is that correct?
I would love to use it for my work.
Okay.
But at this time I cannot, as a business owner, I own two different businesses and I need
to use a business accounting software.
I happen to be a QuickBooks user and I have yet to find any kind of open source business
accounting software.
So I use open source software for my entertainment and enjoyment use.
I have two of a netbook and I have a laptop and I run Ubuntu on my netbook and I have
OpenSusa 11.4 on my laptop and I use that for internet and hanging out on the web.
I use the office program to write documents and things like that and then unfortunately
because I'm limited with the QuickBooks use, I had to pick one of the lesser evils to
use.
Okay.
So I got really tired of problems with my Windows machines.
So I ended up converting to Mac, being a Mac user specifically for my business use.
But other than that, I use as much open source software as I can and in fact, I use Libre
Office on my Mac as well.
Good.
Yeah.
I prefer to use the open source software but the one thing you talked about this with
me yesterday is this accounting software is kind of a hole in the fabric of open source
then for you.
Is it correct?
It is and I've looked at listservs and blogs and I'm not the only one who's struggling
with this issue of having business accounting software available on an open source platform.
I email into it who's the maker of QuickBooks about three times a year asking them for a Linux
capable version.
I don't, I don't even care if it's free.
It doesn't have to be free.
You're talking free is in cost.
Yeah.
You're willing to pay.
Yeah, I would be willing to pay into it for a full version of QuickBooks that would work
on a Linux machine and I'm not kidding when I say every time I email them I usually get
a response that says, oh, we have the Linux server version, but that doesn't help me because
you have to have a Windows machine to access that version, right?
Yeah.
Just use it on my open source laptop and if I could do that I wouldn't have a Mac in my
home either.
Yeah.
Oh.
That sounds good and I think we're putting the call out here to QuickBooks to get on the
stick and get us a port to Linux and or someone else in the open source community to develop
something that's good enough for people to use as business accounting software.
I think that's a need and so that challenges out there to all the HBR listeners.
Yes.
Yes.
And there's lots of personal finance software that looks really great on the open source
platform, but I need business accounting software.
I need double entry, business accounting software, somebody please develop it.
Okay.
It's sure there are capable people with hopefully this will get done and I noticed you were using
the command line, we're working on getting mumble install on your system and I'm really impressed.
I mean, you don't need to know the command line to use the Linux distribution usually and
you were in there playing with it and said you were getting to the place where you could
be dangerous with that.
Yes.
Yes.
And in fact, it ended up that I was dangerous yesterday because I went to update my computer
last night and I ended up downloading mumble for OpenSusa 12.1 instead of 11.4.
So then my update just went all what could do and luckily to happen this weekend at the
fest and I took my laptop over to the OpenSusa booth and they're over there fixing it for
me right now.
Wow.
That's tech support.
It's just across the way there.
I know.
And that's what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
The best community is in helping basic users like myself really use this kind of software
effectively.
I really appreciate that.
Yeah.
Can you tell us a little bit about some of the exciting things you might have seen here
at the fest, some things you're interested in, what's the highlight for you, how's the
food, the weather?
Well, the weather's been great.
We've had a little bit of rain but not too bad.
In fact, we're outside right now.
Yeah.
It's nice.
It's cloudy but it's warm.
So it's great.
The food is excellent here.
I wish the cost wasn't as much as it is but the quality of the food is great.
That's coming out.
I think it's the culinary program here.
Yes.
The food.
It was really good.
And this is at the Bellingham Technical College.
Yeah.
Excellent food.
I was really impressed.
There's a man here and I don't know his name but he's got a gaming booth set up with a
racing game.
Oh, polo Linux.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I sent a picture of that to my husband.
He's a little bit jealous that he chose not to come here.
He's weekend with me.
I think he would have been lying several times for that game.
See a Linux user?
He is because I make him.
Good.
I do have a desktop PC at home that writes a bunch of this as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And did you go to the museum last night to Spark Museum for the...
Yes.
Yes, I did.
How was the beer?
I guess the HBR wants to know how the beer was.
I was a designated driver.
No, I didn't have any beer but my friends did and they said the beer was great.
The museum was fantastic and I don't know if you were here last year for the party.
No, I wasn't.
Last year the party was in a kind of a conference room at a hotel so wasn't that exciting.
This year's party I would say was a huge improvement.
We had full reign of that museum and that was fascinating and then they did a whole electricity
show that night with the Tesla.
The Tesla coil?
Uh-huh.
I didn't stay for that and you did.
I did.
That was spectacular.
It was cool.
Yeah.
They're still developing the show but at one point they had a metal mesh orb with a chair inside.
Yes, I see that.
I saw that.
You came in, yeah.
And then Guy sat in there and they turned on the Tesla coil which was shooting all over
this globe he was sitting in and then he's touching the globe to prove that he wasn't getting electrocuted by it.
And that was really cool and then of course they had the tubes, the lighting and they could light them up without touching anything.
It was a pretty fantastic show.
Yeah, was the participant in the chair?
Was he a volunteer or had he been experienced with that before?
I think he was part of the team and experienced with that but the man who was doing the whole presentation
said that next time once I get the show finalized sometime in October I believe he said
then they're going to ask for volunteers and be able to take a photo of them
while they're in it which would be really great.
Yeah.
I enjoyed the party for as long as I stayed and the beer must have been really good because we had a
half of the homemade HBR T-shirt on when I was there and a fella from, I'm going to say it's Ferndale north of here.
He's retired in his wife isn't and but she has an embroidery machine and so he offered her services to make
us some T-shirt.
He said it would be a little upgrade so I don't know if he was saying that we look kind of bad or not.
She didn't seem all that really hip on the idea she was kind of going along with him but he had a few beers.
I think the beer was really good and I hope to get an interview later over mumble with the Linux Brewers there
and I'll just say they're going to be starting a brewery in the Seattle Tacoma area.
So they were like, they're really cool group and they look like a rocks band.
The differences and I mean it's just really good and I really like that.
So is there anything else you want to share with the HBR audience or anything at all about what you do for
as an interpreter or to encourage people to begin that or learning that?
Anything at all you want to share?
Well I guess my final words I'd like to say for the communities that put on fast in other regions and other areas
to provide this kind of accessibility to the deaf community is really valuable.
For deaf people to feel like they don't have to specifically request a service
or burden somebody with a service and just feel like they can come to a festival like this like anybody else
can just register online and show up and go to sessions and have complete and full accessibility
is really valuable to that community and they can participate in your community as well
provided they have the communication means to be able to do that and they have valuable insights and ideas
just like anybody else has and it would sure make it easier for them to get access to festivals like this
if you could arrange to have some kind of interpreting or accessibility services.
Okay and for hacker public radio you know we put out a podcast and so for a deaf person to be able to participate
as a listener quotes what would we would really need to have like transcription?
Would that be the way to go or us to be able to communicate?
Well yes a transcription would work I imagine this is not in any kind of video format if it was then closed captioning
would be the way to go and I say that because there are some places that may have a video or video interview
or something with a transcription and you can't watch a video and read a transcription at the same time
but you can read captions as they're speaking and watch the video at the same time.
So for something that's like in this format a transcription would be great.
Okay I seem to recall that Ken Fallon or community leader was talking about doing something with putting
the HBR episodes into slides. That would be good huh?
That would be good. Yeah yeah.
Okay and one last thing I'd like to ask you is are you aware of anybody that is deaf that is doing programming?
I know that they're coding I guess.
Yes there are some that were hit Microsoft that I know of just from community I don't work there but I just know them as community members
and there's a few others floating around out there.
And yeah there's some at least that's for this area I don't know about nationwide and I'm sure there's more.
It seems like a job a deaf person could do and because guess what we're all sort of focusing on our screens
if you have visual sight and probably could become an awesome coder and that so.
And not only that, a lot of these guys work from home.
Right.
And I am and deaf people are just as capable of doing that as anybody else.
Yes.
Okay well Robert thank you for taking the time to talk to me and I hope to see you again then.
Perhaps next year when we come up.
Yeah thank you David I enjoyed it.
Thank you.
I appreciate the opportunity as well.
Okay thanks.
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