hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr2980.txt

Episode: 2980
Title: HPR2980: FLOSS Weekly 553 - Hacker Public Radio
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2980/hpr2980.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 14:15:56

---

This is HPR episode 2980 for Friday the 3rd of January 2020.
Today's show is entitled Flos Weekly 553 featuring Hacker Public Radio.
It's part of the series' interview and it's submitted by Ken Fallon and is about 67 minutes
it carries a clean flag.
The summary is, Randal Schwartz and Aram Nukum feature here HPR on Flos Weekly.
Today's show is licensed under SCC by NCND License.
This was the show that Kevin and myself were interviewed on for Flos Weekly and we're
reproducing it here under permission critics.
It's released in its entirety without it.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by AnanasThost.com.
It's at 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HPR15, that's HPR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at AnanasThost.com.
Hi, this is Randal Schwartz host of Flos Weekly.
This week, Aaron Nukum joins me, we're going to be talking about Hacker Public Radio.
They released five episodes a week of all sorts of things, you're not going to want
to miss this, stay tuned.
Podcasts you love.
Front people you trust.
This is Twit.
This is Flos Weekly with Randal Schwartz and Aaron Nukum.
Episode 553 recorded October 30th, 2019, Hacker Public Radio.
This episode of Flos Weekly is brought to you by Melissa.
Bad data happens to good companies.
That's why 10,000 businesses count on Melissa for clean, reliable, address data.
Get started today with 25,000 records cleaned for free at Melissa.com slash Twit.
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for the entire first year.
It's time for Flos Weekly, the show about free, Libre, open source software.
I am your host, Randal Schwartz, Muralinets on hinge.com, bringing you each week, the movers,
the shakers, the big projects, little projects, projects, maybe using every day and not
aware of it.
Projects you may want to download right after this show or occasionally a show that's
not about either of those kinds of things.
Today is one of those.
Joining me once again is my lovely, intolerant coast, Aaron Newcombe, Aaron, welcome back
to the show.
Hey, Randal.
Good to be here.
Right.
And you look like you're speaking to us from your wife's maker space.
Yeah.
From my maker space, but you can only see my wife's half of the room.
We've got one of those white lines.
Remember in the 80s, they used to put the white line.
I think there was a Brady bunch where they put the white line down the room.
That's kind of what we do here.
This is my layer.
I've got all kinds of cool stuff.
What can I pull up today?
Let's see what's this.
No, not that one.
This one, I think this is it.
Yeah, dead test cartridge.
So in case anybody is into repairing Commodore 64, very handy to have these dead test cartridges,
which you can plug in and they'll tell you, give you a little bit of information about
what's going on in the system, whether you have bad memory, et cetera.
So it's part of my regular repertoire as it were when I fixed an old Commodore 64.
So there you go.
You know, I never had a Commodore 64, but I heard a lot of other people have them.
I had, I was in the Atari camp.
So I had the Atari 800 and 1600 or whatever it was, the 400 Nader, that's sorry, not the
Nader.
Yeah.
So that was a lot of fun.
The 400 had the little chiclet keyboard that was like, you kind of press on the little
membranes and the 800 actually had full stroke keys or it's kind of cool.
So my only.
And they have less shielding as well, which is the interesting thing about them is before
the FCC relaxed their regulations, they had to put shielding around everything.
So if you ever see one of those old computers, you're wondering, why is this thing made
out of, you know, led, it looks like it's really not, but up until I forget what it was
in 1979 or something like that, they had to put in all the shielding around every single
component.
And Atari went to the end to agree to make sure they weren't going to get struck down
by the FCC and have to change their products.
That is something I did not know.
So you learn something every day, right?
Yep.
Well, I hope so anyway.
And I am in my, what we call the Tijuana kitchen set, because I am down in, I'm down south
of the border in Tijuana and having a good time down here.
It's interesting because in Mexico, they celebrate Halloween like nobody else.
I mean, it's amazing.
So Halloween day itself is not so much except in border towns like Tijuana, but the day
of the dead November 2nd is huge down here.
If you've seen the movie Coco, you know that it's very, very, it's very much like that
actually.
They really are cool on that.
So today we have a couple of very interesting people.
We're going to be talking about hacker public radio hacker.
Hacker public radio is apparently, although I haven't, I'm sorry, I haven't subscribed
to it yet.
I should probably not tell my guests that, but I haven't subscribed to it yet.
But apparently five days a week, they put out a different topic and it looks pretty cool.
It looks like the list of topics that I saw from the recent weeks, very cool.
So we'll have to talk about the variety of topics, how they get people to contribute
to it.
We're going to be having Kevin O'Brien and Ken Fallon on in just a few minutes talking
about the show.
And it'll be, it'll be awesome, I'm sure, because you know, it's, it's funny as podcasters
to interview other podcasters.
And I heard some comments back in reverse, which is that, you know, it's going to be weird
being, the people being interviewed rather than the people doing interviewing.
So it'll be fun.
Do you know anything about this, Aaron?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I did open source podcasts.
I had a show called The Source that I started in 2006.
And then I did a show called Open News, it was around that same time, which was kind of
more.
And I remember around that time seeing, I think it was around that time, seeing hacker
public radio.
And I used to be a big podcast listener.
I don't have as much time now spare time or audio listening time to dedicate to podcasts
as I used to.
But yeah, I definitely know hacker public radio.
They've been around for a long time, just how long we'll have to ask them and see.
Definitely.
And I wish I had more time to listen to podcasts.
But you know, it's like, no, I'm not going to say that.
I'm not going to say I no longer subscribe to this week intact, just because it's just
too long.
I won't say that at all.
It's just gotten longer, longer every year.
So anyway, but before we get into the actual show, I do have an important message because
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We thank Melissa for their support of Floss Weekly.
Let's go ahead and bring on our guests.
That would be, oops, I scrolled.
I scrolled, darn me.
Editor just cut this part out.
Kevin O'Brien, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Randall.
It's a pleasure to be here.
And where are you speaking to us from?
From my home in Ipsilanti, Michigan, which is outside of Detroit.
Yep, the middle of the United States, somewhere in there anyway.
Yes, it did.
We are part of the great Midwest.
Cool, cool.
And Ken Fallon, also, welcome to the show.
Hi.
Nice to finally meet you.
And where are you speaking to us from?
I'm calling from Bussam in the Netherlands.
It's between Amsterdam and between Amsterdam and Utrecht.
And are you currently below sea level?
Here, actually, no.
But if you go anywhere around us, yes, we are.
But again, we're still under sea level for longer than the US.
You have existed.
So I think we're OK.
So you're in the safe part of the Netherlands, yes.
So I was last in Amsterdam about, I think, five months ago,
hanging out with friends that were there.
So it was kind of cool.
It was the beginning and ending of a cruise
that I took out of there.
So it was kind of fun.
Anyway, so let's start with Kevin.
Kevin, what's your relationship, the Hector Public Radio,
and what's it about?
Well, I am a contributor.
So my relationship is that I create programs
and record them, upload them, and they go out on our feed.
So I've done a few series.
I'm working on a series right now on new social media.
Cool.
And what makes you motivated to be a podcaster?
Well, I don't know that podcasting, per se,
is the only motivation.
But I used to be a teacher.
And I've always had this need to offer whatever insight
I may happen to have about something and teach people.
So I've done that in writing, in classroom,
and now with podcasts.
And I also have that same sense.
I mean, obviously, I've been doing this show for 13 years,
but the notion that you need a place to express your art.
You need a place to express a voice in the intention
that somebody is going to be motivated,
going to be differently because of it.
And do you agree with that?
Oh, absolutely.
It's wonderful when you get feedback from people.
And that has happened that I've been associated
with Ohio Linux Fest for a number of years.
In fact, I met Aaron Newcomb there many years back.
And I'd be walking down a hallway there
and someone would come up and say,
hey, aren't you that guy from Hacker Public Radio
that records those shows?
And it's like, well, yes, I am.
Thank you.
That's a good feeling.
It is to get that kind of feedback.
I mean, I get recognized at conferences now
as I used to get recognized as being the Pearl Book Guy,
or the Pearl Guy in general.
And now people are coming up to me in conferences,
going, you're the podcast guy.
You're the floss weekly guy.
So I definitely appreciate that.
That I have a new sort of pinnacle that I've managed
to cross over to.
Ken, what's your story?
Is it similar?
Yeah, I kind of got into a free Libra open source
offer and then I just wanted to give back a little bit.
For me, sometimes it's the people I hang around with
don't understand that you've got something
that you mean to compile after three days of debugging
an issue and then you can record a show
when you get it out of your system.
So that's kind of one of the advantages of HPR,
I think.
And how do you design your show?
Well, HPR is kind of different to most podcast networks
because it's we're actually just a wave.
I know a few weeks ago you had Dan on Simon on About Oddcamp.
So HPR is the podcast equivalent of an Oddcamp or a barcap
festival.
We don't have any of our own shows.
We rely on the people who are listening to us.
So the listeners to submit shows and the shows
can be on any topic as long as you like containing
any content you like.
So long as it's of interest to hackers,
just in spam obviously.
So if you have just come up with a cool way
to connect Raspberry Pi to something or other
then record a show about it.
If you've got some interest in Harm Radio,
record a show about it.
And that's pretty much what it is.
Wow, and how long have you been involved with HPR?
Oh, I started, well,
HPR itself has been going for,
let me just check here, 14 years,
one month and 14 days.
So it's been a while, yeah.
And that actually dates back to RSS started in 2001
and then in 2002 to 2004, Radio Free,
America started.
And that's kind of where they, in the last episode there,
they mentioned hacker public radio and then bin rev
and then phonomicum started.
And when those two shows were kind of winding up,
they started the thing called,
at the same time as Twitch started,
they started today with a techie and ran for a few years.
And then we morphed because the name
wasn't actually ideal.
So we morphed in 2007 into HPR.
So we had 300 shows under the first name.
And then right now we have,
let me check 3,521 shows and posted, yeah.
Now, I mean, this is show 553,
which already seems long to me,
but it has 3,000 shows.
It sounds amazing and Kevin, how did you get involved?
Well, one of the things that hacker public radio has done
is a new year's marathon that runs about 26 hours.
And yeah, it basically follows the stroke of midnight
around the globe.
Why that takes 26 hours, maybe Ken understands it.
I don't, I just go along with it.
And so I was listening to the program
and a number of people were just talking about how,
it's not that hard to do and you know,
you should contribute shows.
And I thought, well, yeah, I could do that.
So I got started and I picked something
that I was really interested in, which is Libra Office.
Now, I know you've had them on your show before.
Yeah.
And that was something I was really pretty passionate about.
So I did a whole series of tutorials about using Libra Office
that covered writer, Calc.
And was it the presentations?
Yeah.
And at a certain point, that kind of ran out.
And I didn't have anything more to say.
So then I started one on ongoing sort of intermittent
series on security and privacy.
There's something comes up that it's like,
okay, we should do a show about that.
Then I'll do a show.
I'm working on one right now about better social media.
You know, I was following Aaron Nukem on Google Plus.
And as we all know, Google Plus went by by.
And I had to start thinking, okay,
now what do I really want to do?
I'm not a fan of Facebook.
And some friends of mine did a presentation at a convention
about federated social media.
And that got me started.
And so I'm now doing a series looking at what we call
the Fediverse, different social media like that
for a mastodon, stuff like that.
So that's the kind of some stuff that I'm interested in.
Yeah, it's amazingly easy to do a podcast
or at least a record audio about something
that you're passionate about.
I think in some ways it's much easier than say posting
an article on medium because you get to type a lot.
You know, it's pretty easy to grab a mic
and just start talking like that.
I find that it's simpler for me.
So and by the way, the 26-hour marathon
is because there are time zones on both sides
of the date timeline.
They're the date line that sort of overlaps.
But so it really makes it about 26 times zones.
I am a time zone geek by the way.
I actually subscribe to the mailing list
where they discuss the changes to the Olsen database.
I mean, that's how time zone geeky I am.
And it's amazing how many last minute decisions
got made because like, I remember the one time
Turkey decided that they were going to suspend DST
the following day.
But I'm thinking how many phones are gonna be wrong tomorrow
because you can't update the database that quickly.
And because I do shows like this
where I'm talking to people all over the world
and you know, Netherlands today,
where I have to schedule stuff.
And it's really weird that, okay, first off
before we get too much into the conversation
we should eliminate DST entirely.
Please, please eliminate DST entirely
because it doesn't do anything for anybody.
It doesn't do anything.
It was never for the farmers.
It was strictly to weezy thing that people could do.
But so if I'm scheduling a call, say with the UK,
they change to DST two hours or two weeks differently
than we do in the U.S.
And if I'm calling, say Brazil,
they go backward relative to our forward at different times.
So it's also weird anyway.
So enough of that.
So what kinds of things does hacker public radio cover?
Either of you can take that.
Sir, basically anything that's of interest to hackers
and the only limitation we have when you upload a show
is yeah, we license all our stuff's creative comments.
So we pick a creative comments license and you upload it.
And basically we don't listen to it.
We don't check it.
If you're a new host, we'll, some of the janitors
on one of them will just check it in spots
to make sure there's nothing weird in there.
And if it seems like you're talking about Linux or BST
or connecting up a phone or something, then it's on the network.
And that's it.
There's a big upload button on the website.
You record your audio, you press that,
you fill in the form and that's it.
You pick a day and your show comes up.
I think one of the major problems we have for you listeners
is that because we've got basically 51 gigabytes
or 53 gigabytes of audio, just to give you an idea,
if you started listening now, you would be 65 days,
18 hours and 13 minutes.
So you'd be the third of January 24, 7 listening
by which time there'd be 65 more shows ready for you in your pop.
So I know there are some long distance truckers out there
going, yes, finally, I've hit the motor load.
So if there are anybody insane enough to go back
and listen to the entire feed, could you also try
and fill out the tags on the old shows as well
and make sure that this stuff is relevant for us.
That would be awesome.
It's one way you could help out.
But a lot of people struggle with how,
how to find out what shows there are there.
So Dave, one of the janitors has been asking
people to fill out the tags on the shows.
So if you go to, on the main page, there's a tag section
you can look for something interesting there.
We also have series that, so if somebody contributes
three shores or more on a particular topic,
the newest one recently is Bitcoin, GG.
Then that becomes a series
and you can subscribe to that on the RSS feed.
So we do have the full feed,
which is the full 53 gigabytes of stuff,
but we also have a 10 day feed that goes through.
And in order to kind of manage that,
some people listen to the Community News Show,
which is put on by some of the volunteers
and janitors of myself.
And that's once every month.
So anyone who listens to HPR is free to join
and we discuss the shows that have been on in the last month,
what's happening on the news feeds
on mailing lists and stuff like that.
Any shows that we've been on, for example,
is going to feature heavily in any other business section.
And what's turned out is a lot of people
have stopped subscribing to the RSS feed
and they listen to the Community News one
and then go back and do a pick and mix on the shows.
So what's ended up happening is we have 50% of our listeners
listening via the RSS feeds
and then 50% either going in directly via
the Community News feed or picking them
because they've subscribed to a particular host.
So that's the way.
That's really cool.
In fact, I was just looking at the correspondence,
I guess you call them page.
And it's pretty interesting to go through there
and just see how many.
I mean, I can't scroll fast enough.
I don't know how many are listed here.
Looks like about 100 or 200 correspondence and 58.
Wow.
That's crazy.
Yeah, I don't know, John, if you can,
oh, perfect timing, boy, look at that.
So if you're watching the video,
you can kind of see how many people have contributed to this.
And it's kind of like, I mean,
it depends on whether you know their moniker
or user ID, right, to know who these people are.
Some of them use their name, some of them don't.
But when you go through here, it's like a,
there's just all sorts of people who've contributed
and like I see Dave Yates in here, for example, right?
Host ID 77.
And I think if I remember correctly,
Dave was the one who recorded in his car.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, Dave used to do this show
where he recorded in his car in his way to work.
And it was like, dude, how do you do that?
You're driving to work in your car.
That's so sustained, all this stuff was.
Yeah, it was just off the, like, I don't know it.
Maybe he had notes.
I can't remember what he told me about how he did it.
Maybe he had notes posted on his dashboard.
Just all kinds of things.
DM Frey was on here.
He hasn't recorded since 2012,
but I remember speaking to him back in the day,
just, I mean, it's almost a huesoo
of people that have gotten involved in podcasting
or want to talk about anything from open source
to technology to what have you.
So, I mean, it really is a different kind of approach
to podcasting.
And that's really our goal.
Sorry.
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Kim.
Our goal here is to share knowledge.
So the whole idea is to get as many people
into podcasting as possible on it.
That kind of, we're different from most other podcast
networks and that we're not looking for listeners.
We're looking for people to contribute.
So we're looking for hosts.
So if I get a thousand listeners,
unless they turn into holes,
and it's not that really that important to me
because people with like Dave life happened
and he kind of moved away from the community,
he still contributes a show from time to time,
but we constantly need new people.
And just natural in the last year,
we've had two of our hosts pass away.
So life happens.
But if you're listening to Floss Weekly
and you've always thought, well,
what am I recording getting into this podcasting thing,
then record your show, as Randall said.
And then we take care of the rest.
All the RSS feed, you've got a welcome audience
who's very supportive.
And we, as we say, we'll accept any audio
so long as it's, we'll accept anything so long
as it's audible.
Now, Flack is best, but we'll take the rest.
So we realize that on day one,
you're not going to be reaching Floss Weekly levels
of quality, which are first podcasts,
but that doesn't matter.
The whole point is start, stop procrastinating,
record a show about something,
press the submit button, and then you're a broadcaster.
And then you can always look back at,
ooh, that was a terrible show.
And a lot of people were more than happy
to help people move on and go do their own shows.
And then obviously, they're the last time
for posting on Hacker Public Radio.
But that's not the point.
The point is to get people into podcasting,
get sharing knowledge.
Yeah, yeah, it really is a community, isn't it?
That's the point, Jay.
Yeah, in fact, I think you made me, Kevin,
you can talk about this a little bit,
but how do you know what the direction
of the Hacker Public Radio is going?
Is it a small group of people who decides
what's going to happen?
The people who are contributing, really.
I mean, we have a mailing list.
So there's discussions on the mailing list.
People, you know, we mentioned,
we do a monthly community news program
and that's done on mumble.
Anyone can come in and join.
Just if you have anything to say, you say it.
So it's, you know, it can choose us as words very carefully
when he says he's the janitor and not the admin
because that's the kind of ethic we have
that, you know, nobody owns it.
No one lays down the law unless it's the entire community.
Right, and I think that's what's kind of interesting here
is that it really does mirror in a lot of ways
the open source community, right?
For where you don't always have this, you know,
the governance is set up different ways,
but I think here, you know, you really have the fact
that this is led by the community
and what the community wants to submit,
what direction they want to see it go forward.
It really is quite a different way to run,
I guess, a podcast network, if you will.
Now, Ken, you said that you don't track necessarily
how many, you know, you're really after getting people
to submit more than you are getting people to listen
to the show, but you must do some sort of tracking
of how many people download or how many people listen
to a particular show, right?
Yes, and this is one of the points where my janitor role,
I have two hats, me as a host, and me as the janitor.
So as the janitor, I have accepted the decision
that this is something that the community requires.
As a host, I will always say that you can't measure
the impact of a show by the number of downloads.
So taking, for example, recently we've had a comment
four years after a show has been put in,
and the show itself was on somebody's experiences
as a patient within a, with schizophrenia in a hospital.
And the comment on that show was from somebody
on the other side, one of the caregivers
who was commenting about how useful the insight,
that was as an insight into their work
and how much that was going to help them.
So say I put up a fantastic show
and I get a million subscribers.
That show has had more impact on actual people's lives.
But that said, that said by command,
I am required as a janitor to basically tell you
how many shows and it's kind of weird.
We kind of get about 50% of our shows.
So when we post a show, we get about 4,000 downloads
of that show.
So you'll see all these numbers on archive.org.
We've moved our RSS feed traffic over to archive.org.
But, equally in a day, 50% of the downloads
will be historical shows.
So it's the weirdest thing out.
I just can't make head and her tale of it.
It's, we have the equivalent of a day as, say,
one of the largest fostem.
So if you've ever been to fostem,
so that's the number of listeners we have on a particular day.
But they're not all going to the main show.
Some of them are going to, you know, the side rooms
and listening to something that's four or five years old
or in some cases 14 years old.
So it's, I, yeah, that's, that's amazing.
I did want to ask, you know, I know that,
I forgot what my question was.
There was something, oh, I know what it was.
So the, when you get old, that happens.
You know, I find that happens more and more these days.
So the, you know, I've seen over time
and I want to ask you what you're seeing as well
is that suddenly podcasting has taken off.
It's kind of like it's gotten a resurgence in popularity.
You know, it seemed like it was popular back in the mid 2000s
when it first started and then it kind of waned a little bit
and then all of a sudden, you know,
everybody's doing a podcast that seems like.
So I'm kind of curious what you've seen over
since you spans such a long stretch of time,
whether you're seeing that in your listenership as well.
I see that's, well, I don't really follow the,
the download stats because I've got actually too busy
trying to keep the queue in order to be worried about that.
But I have seen people come up to me.
So anecdotally, I've seen people come up to me and say,
hey, I've heard about podcasting and stuff.
And then we go, okay, yeah, here's our, here's our network.
If you want to submit a show, this is what you can do.
But I think it's what's happened is mainstream media
has started professionalizing it.
And that I think is a danger for the free and open source
community, which is why I'm really glad of the opportunity
of coming on here because, you know, we're not on HPR.
You're not set to having to do an hour long show precisely
or 30 minutes precisely.
If what you need to say can be done in three minutes,
then you have a three minute show.
If you need an eight hour show, then you take the eight hours
to do your eight hour show or better yet,
divide it up and split it up over time.
But I am seeing so many people in work now downloading
podcast app, podcast app apps and listening to in the car.
Problem is, I've also noticed is the national news agency
here in the Netherlands don't publish their RSS feed.
So the only way you can get to it is via proprietary interfaces.
So that is definitely an issue.
So I can't let Aaron have all the fun.
So I'm gonna interrupt here for a bit and ask a few questions.
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Thank you.
And let's talk, again, I have a question sort of,
as Aaron was talking with you guys,
what's the most unusual show that you've had
on Hacker Public Radio?
I know I haven't listened to the 76,000 hours
of whatever you have.
So tell me, what was your most unusual show?
Well, the one that's the one that was most popular
at that I found most interesting was, well, no,
I didn't, I find all the shows interesting.
But while when above and beyond, obviously,
was where one of our chaps went fresh water swimming
in France, put on a beanie with an MP3 recorder
on his head and swam down France,
river down to the weir, passing some fishermen
on the side, saying hello, turned and swam back.
That prompted us to open a series called Soundscapes.
And we've had quite a few people who have submissive chills,
which are simply just a walk in the park along the rain,
you know, listening to the rain, listening to the traffic.
It's that one I really enjoyed.
You know, I think there would be a really interesting show
because there's so much we ignore now.
And it sort of saddens me that there are people
that are walking around with earphones on all the time.
And they're not able to hear sort of the environment
that they're in.
And there's some really interesting sounds sometimes.
Now, on the other hand, if they're listening
to hacker public radio, that's it.
Or philosophy, obviously.
Or philosophy, that could be a good thing too,
but it's like, I was sitting on the seat, was it yesterday?
No, day before yesterday, I was flying down here
from San Jose.
And I, both of the people next to me,
you know, on one flight or the other,
were like the moment that he sat down,
they're both he's, I can say it that way,
the moment he sat down, he has your budget.
And I'm going, you know, there's stuff going on around here.
And first off, you're not supposed to be doing that
while they're giving you a little talk,
the little safety dance thing, you know, the,
da, da, da, da, da, da, da, safety dance, right?
You're not supposed to be listening to anything
when that's going on,
but then they were both doing that apparently
and just ignoring the safety dance.
But I like the idea of a soundscape.
And this again is something that you don't have to be smart
to figure out.
It doesn't even have to be a story.
It's just could be, here's where I am, you know,
and here's what I'm doing.
Kevin, can you do the same question?
Well, yeah, there's a series going on right now.
Several people are involved in play testing and RPG game.
That's kind of an interesting thing.
And I'll mention one of my own.
I did a series and it's ongoing about taking care of your health.
You know, I have a few challenges.
I'm, you know, for instance, I'm diabetic.
So it's like, what, what things should you do to take care of yourself?
Because I think a lot of, a lot of us geeks may have a unhealthy lifestyle
if we're not paying attention.
Well, heck yes.
I'm sure.
I'm sure.
I mean, before I discovered low carb eating, I was definitely like a traditional hacker
right round round was my shape.
Really the only shape I had.
Well, you know, now that inspires me, it's like not that I want to be even more
hours a week in front of a microphone.
I don't mind it.
But maybe I could submit a series on what low carb eating is all about.
So that would be sort of fun.
You didn't have to listen to the show to contribute.
Yeah.
Well, but I might have to subscribe to the show finally and then kind of see
what the tone of the thing is, what about length?
What, what, what's your target for length and what's your short and long things?
Short to show has been three minutes.
Long show has been three more like eight, nine hours.
Wow.
We could about the 26 hour show.
Well, the tricks 20 new year shows, 26 hours, but then there's the after show
and the pre show.
So sometimes it goes up to 32 or 48 hours.
So it's, that's the freedom of podcasting.
And that's, you know, in the chaos when podcasting started, there was no
restrictions.
So you weren't restricted to 30 minutes slot.
But yeah, if, if you can say it in five minutes, say it in five minutes.
So the sweet swatch is about half an hour for most people.
15 minutes to half an hour, but you're not restricted.
We don't care.
But how does, how does diet fit into hacker is, is it, what, what's the scope of
this show?
This is if it's of interest to hackers, that is the, that is the requirement
for to get a show on, which by definition means the person recording is now
leasing off to be called themselves a hacker because they're on hacker
public radio.
So that's one down.
So to make a plural, you need to find somebody else who's interested in the
show and myself and the, the other people who contribute will always find
something interesting in the three thousand five hundred and twenty one
shows I had yet to find something that wasn't of interest or new or, or, or
led me smile or made me cry in one of those shows.
So go first.
And, and you ever get the time to aim at like 15 to 20 minutes works?
Well, I share the, the sentiment Randall that you brought up earlier about
shows that just go on and on and on.
And it seems like a lot of podcasts these days have decided, you know, our,
our fans are so desperate for content.
We have to record a three hour show and I don't like that.
And I have unsubscribe from podcast because just okay, it's just going on too
long. I got things to do with my life.
Yeah.
And it makes sense of that the shows that go on and on that repeat things.
I've already read in my RSS feeds are, are really useless to me.
So it's, it's, that's mostly why I've unsubscribe from a lot of shows that I had
been listening to religiously early on.
And it's also why I make sure that, uh,
floss weekly has unique content, uh, and not just unique content, but we keep it
down to an hour.
We're, we're very, very interested in making sure that we don't, uh, even if,
even if the story to fully tell would be two hours, we still just do the first
hour of it, uh, in, in a newspaper sort of way.
Just because we don't, I don't want to bore my audience.
I don't want to, I don't want to tell them things that they can find by googling,
you know, so it's, it's really important for me to keep floss weekly to be that kind
of shortness, um, uh, whisper to my ear, uh, how do you monetize?
Um, we don't, essentially, our hosting is provided the gratis free by Josh camp,
uh, nap, who is an honest host.com.
If I can put in there, he has, uh, provided us bandwidth.
We also, uh, do a lot of our, uh, files are stored on the internet archive.
Um, and so we recommend people contribute to Josh.
There's a, he has a discount code.
If you want to sign up for there, I can, I can testify to the, to the fact he's a host as well.
Obviously, um, and then the internet archive, we ask people if they have a few
shackles that they controlled there, um, what we've seen happen is that if we're going,
we tend to cover the, uh, hallway tracks of festivals and stuff.
So, um, if you're going to a festival, I've been to odd camp recently.
And, uh, met Dan and Simon.
And what we do is just record the, uh, the hallway track there and then
posted a shows on HPR.
So you'll have some of the odd camp ones coming up shortly.
And, you know, that came out of my pocket.
When I arrived there, all the stickers and stuff up to her, uh, several people on the table.
They had also all brought stickers and posters and banners.
So, you know, this stuff, even this, uh, coffee cup was contributed by, uh, by a host.
So it's, yeah, it's great.
Means I don't need to fill out forms or anything and keep shackling money.
It's awesome.
Yeah, yeah, very cool, very cool.
So we're almost out of time.
Uh, we do have a couple of questions from our chat room.
Plutonium Shore asks, um, is it audio only?
Yes, but, uh, if you want to, uh, submit a video, uh, along with it, that's,
that's, if you're posting the video on YouTube or somewhere else, then that's absolutely fine.
But, uh, focus mostly on the audio.
So one of the things I've discovered about, uh, having a video channel, which is, uh,
this show goes out in both video and audio forms, is that people will tend to then, like,
hold up things or talk about something on the screen.
And I say, look, remember that most of our audience is audio only.
You need to, you need to describe what you're holding or like that.
This is the first time I've seen this show.
Yes, listen to it.
Tons.
That's true, actually.
Yeah, definitely.
Uh, so that's something to be concerned about is if, uh, your guest doesn't know that, uh,
most of the people that are, are listening to the show, uh, uh, most of the people are listening
to the show.
I should have put the right pronunciation on that sentence.
Yes.
Most of the people are listening to the show, right?
Um, so, um, we're almost out of time.
Is there anything we didn't cover that you want to make sure our audience is aware of?
But they sent me a long list of questions.
I don't think we got to most of those.
Um, no, I think we, uh, we cover these questions.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so people can find you at hackerpublicradio.org.
And they can subscribe.
Is that where the RSS feed is as well?
It's on somewhere on that.
I get chills and you can pick the RSS feed.
Um, but if that's blocked for any reason, you can also go to hubbypublicradio.org.
Hubby?
Hubby has in hubby.
Oh, hubby.
Oh, that's nice.
Oh, there's the question I wanted to ask.
So I get some grief occasionally because I have called myself just another pearl hacker.
Is the word hacker in your show title ever been grief for you?
Yes, uh, the word hacker and radio has caused us problems.
Um, I've, I've had where I wanted to do an interview with, with, uh, people and they refuse
to go on because of the word hacker.
Um, but then we have the exact same size with the word hacker replaced with a hobbyist.
Um, that becomes hubbypublic radio.
So if ever you're blocked and firewalls or anything in your work,
first can email us so that I know about that and I can contact the,
the team who are blocking it to say this is an educational channel.
But it's a lot less now than it was back in the day.
And, and if you ever had, uh, uh, RMS on your show,
we have twice.
Yes, once for an interview and, uh, I recorded them at one stage.
We haven't had Linus yet.
Yes, yes, and, and did, uh, did Richard require you to say,
you know, Linux?
Um, I don't think that was an issue, uh, Richard has his requirements for, uh, interviews and the
host at the time to care that, that they were all followed.
Yes, yes, I, because I thought about having none in this show, but I, I, I can't come around
to saying GNU Linux, especially because, uh, Linus is a friend of mine.
I play pool with him occasionally.
So, uh, I don't want to say GNU in front of that.
In fact, where was I?
I was on, I was on one of my cruises and he was one of the guests on the cruise.
And I went up to him and I said, do you object to GNU Linux?
And he grabbed me and put me in a chokehold.
Yes.
So, yes, I, I know front, he won't say that in public, but now it's on this recording.
So it's going to be official from now on.
Yeah, okay.
So, uh, anything else we didn't cover that you want to make sure we get covered?
Either be.
No, um, anybody who's listening to this who thinks that they would like to be a, um,
podcaster or, or then record something, press the upload button.
And if you're subscribing to HPR, don't be afraid to press the lease on the show.
If you don't like it, there are lots of shows there.
Sounds like it.
Easy yourself in.
Easy yourself in.
And if you are going back listening to all the shows, please help out with the tags
and making sure the stuff is up today at fixing links and that sort of thing.
I just want to mention in terms of, uh, equipment, you don't need, uh, a studio like
Twitter has or fancy equipment or anything.
I have done very successful shows with a Sansa Clip Plus just clipped onto my collar.
And set to record and then I just talk.
You know, I was, I was actually just going to ask, uh, can I just take my iPhone
or if you had an Android phone with a microphone?
Yeah.
Would that be, could I just talk into that?
Yeah, if it's a creative, uh, 15 minute show, no editing, just do a live stream for 15 minutes.
Yes.
If it's audible.
Yes, right.
As long as we can understand what you're saying, that's it.
It won't end up being live in the sense that whatever you record becomes a file that then gets
sent out on the RSS feed.
Right, right.
Uh, Oh, Aaron has one more question.
Go ahead, Aaron.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you don't mind me, I was just kind of curious too, uh, in the same vein.
I mean, what about archive material?
Um, I know that a lot of times things, things that are relevant in, you know,
like right now are, are, are interesting to listen to, but I know I've got some recordings.
For example, I was thinking of my recording with, um, Doug McElroy, who was, uh, you know,
a manager at AT&T over Dennis Richie and Ken Thompson when they were creating Unix, for example,
I've got a recording of him at Ohio Linux Fest, uh, that in perpetuity, I think would be interesting.
So is that okay?
Absolutely.
We have a general, um, we do like contents created for HPR balls.
If, uh, sorry, general guideline is if you have, if you want to promote your own podcast,
we'll take an example episode and put that on and say, hey, there's a new podcast out and about.
Here are all the RSS feeds for that.
But if you've got, uh, interviews and stuff like that that, that happen to be published anywhere,
or that you want to make them available, um, outside the feed, then, yeah, that's, that should be fine.
Cool.
And how much of a backlog do you have?
Um, I, I have eight shows currently scheduled, which makes me pleased to no end.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
That's one that we normally have.
Uh, one, what, what kind of backlog do you have?
So we have about, uh, 28 chills in the queue at the minute, but that can change.
Whoa.
We, we, we suffer from the leaky book at, um, syndrome.
And you have to remember that HPR is very long term.
So the first time I got feedback at any show was six years after I recorded it.
And the feedback was, oh, Ubuntu does work like that anymore.
And I go, yeah, that's because they fixed it in the six years since you listened to the podcast.
Well, it's like, I like to say that Floss Weekly is not a news show.
It's a, it's a mega second shows where we, we, we have, uh, timeless content and people are
still downloading some of our early, uh, uh, a backlog.
And we refer to our back catalog just because it's the kinds of things that aren't, um,
you know, aren't like this month or the, uh, I love it when I get a press release from, uh,
one of the press eight companies that says, uh, we have an embargo till next Friday.
And I go, fine, I don't care.
This thing won't even find my show feed until like 12 weeks from now.
So I don't care.
So yeah, it's pretty funny.
Um, uh, so that's, that's really good.
Okay, two final questions for both of you, um, because if I don't ask them,
my audience will yell at me, what's your favorite programming language?
And what is your favorite text editor?
We'll start with, uh, Kevin.
Well, uh, I am actually not a programmer.
So the closest I can come for a programming language would probably be, uh, java script.
Okay.
Or I was going to say cobalt because it's like English, uh, yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's, uh, I was a IT project manager, uh, so I had programmers working for me, but,
you know, uh, I, man's got to know his limitations as Clint Eastwood famously said, uh, for my text
editor, uh, the one I use more than anything is Kate because I like KDE and it comes with it.
Ah, I don't know that one because I don't have an X desktop.
So I have no idea what these things are that you guys talk about, but that's fine. Uh, same
two questions can, uh, on any given day, it will either be bash, pearl or python.
You said pearl though.
You said pearl.
Yeah, I've been pearl in there.
Yes.
Thank you.
I love hanging out with the pearl people over us, uh, fuss, fuss them.
So nice people over there.
And, and your text editor, uh, case as well.
Yeah, kitty.
All right, all right, Kate.
All right.
Well, hey, guys, it's been wonderful having you on.
I may actually have to subscribe with this.
Although, again, I have limited hours in the day, and if this income's out five days a week,
I think that might be a little more than I can handle in my days.
But we'll see, I'll, I'll give it a run, um, and I may even submit some little things about, uh,
low carb eating because I'm very excited about that for the seven years that I've been doing it.
And, uh, uh, it is apropos to the hacker culture.
Because it makes hackers, uh, less round.
That's always getting more healthy, more healthy is a good thing.
It's not just about being less round, it's about being more healthy.
Uh, um, um, okay.
Well, then I guess we're ready to say, uh, thank you all for being on the show, Kevin and Ken.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for having us.
Thanks.
Appreciate it.
All right.
That was, uh, Kevin O'Brien and Ken Valin talking to us about hacker public radio,
which you should definitely check out hackerpublicradio.org.
What did you think there, Aaron?
Oh, it's great to talk to those guys.
Uh, I remember meeting Kevin at Ohio Linux Fest a number of years ago, um, when I,
when I used to live in Ohio and would go up there and do my show, uh, the source from up there
and interview folks and stuff, it was great.
Um, no, I think it's really important.
And, uh, uh, to have an outlet, I mean, similar to floss weekly, but, um,
an outlet for people that want to create content that maybe is a little bit out of the
mainstream or wouldn't necessarily have a place to live otherwise.
And, and, and I love what Ken said early on about.
And they both said this as, as we were talking about, encouraging people, just, you know,
pick up a microphone or even a phone, uh, and just start recording and submit that because
people, you're, you're sharing information with the broader community.
And anytime you do that, it's worthwhile.
So, um, you know, I love that they have that as their mantra.
It's not about necessarily making tons of money or, um, you know, gaining popularity
and all that kind of stuff, right?
It's about sharing knowledge and providing a platform where people can talk about these
things that we all enjoy talking about and, uh, learning something new.
So I mean, I, I think it's great.
Um, glad we were able to have them on because it's always nice to talk to, to
fellow podcasters anyway, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, certainly we know some of the issues they face.
So it's great to ask about those issues because it's like, uh, you know, here I am weak
by weak, producing this show.
And there are a lot of things that I have to worry about, including, as I just mentioned
at the end of the show, it's like I like to have, you know, some, some, some shows in the queue
because otherwise, I'm like, hey, what do we do?
So yeah, um, and so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very nice to, uh, uh, and do that.
And I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking like about every three weeks, I could have
published something to, um, the, the subreddit today I learned.
And because it's like, you come up with you, you go, oh, this combination of these,
these things, and it's generally for me, it's about hacker things.
It's about some sort of, you know, computational thing that I, uh, I didn't know before.
And I'm not thinking I could just grab a mic on my phone even because it doesn't have to be
the fancy, uh, uh, getting in other than speaking into now, but it just be a, you know, grab,
grab my phone and, and read that into the phone.
And I would have a show that I could submit to them.
And, and so I'm, I'm like, okay, well, this sounds kind of cool.
I like I said, I may have to subscribe to this now.
Yeah, for sure, yeah, I, I, I'm sorry, bad hit off.
Oh, yeah, that's okay.
I know I've come through the archives, uh, several, several times to find something, uh,
or something has come up where I've wanted to listen to it.
Or like I say, I mean, just, you know, for, for those of us that have been
in podcasting while just, especially in the open source community,
just kind of going through and seeing the contributors is kind of interesting, uh, to see who's,
who's contributed over time and, uh, kind of brings back memories at this point, you know,
it's hard to believe that they've been going for this long.
So kudos to them.
Yeah, and there's no way I'm listening to the entire back catalog.
Of course, I've got to say that I bet floss weekly's back catalog because this is show
553, I think it is, um, if you listen to all 500 hours, would be quite a ways.
Um, so, uh, I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of having been involved with almost all of it except for the first 17 shows.
Um, but, uh, it's been interesting.
It's definitely been interesting.
I keep enjoying doing this show.
I can see why these guys have the motivation to keep moving forward, uh, just because
it, it's wonderful to be able to share information with an audience, to be able to, uh,
hopefully believe at least that you're changing, transforming somehow the way that they're
doing interactions with, um, whatever they're interacting with being hackers.
So, uh, very cool.
So, uh, we're almost out of time.
So, let me go through the upcoming list, which is longer and longer every week, which is great.
Um, next week is Hot Rock, which is, uh, described itself as, uh, Hot Rock seeks to address the
challenge of transforming raw logs, alerts, and time series data, you know, real intelligence without
the traditional limitations of scale, extensibility, or high costs.
It sounds like fun.
And in fact, simply maybe even that, uh, zipper creator can use my primary client.
Uh, Kong is coming back.
It's an ex-generation API platform for multi-cloud and hybrid organizations.
And then I'm guessing it's a French word, Shesmois, CHZ, MOI.
I bet that's a pronounced French-like.
It helps you manage your personal configuration files and dot files across multiple machines.
LS Quick, which is light speed quick to UIC library.
It's an open source implementation of Quick and HTTP 3 functionality for servers and clients.
XWiki is, uh, see, first-generation wikis are used to collaborate on content,
second-generation wikis, uh, can be used to create collaborative web applications.
XWiki can be used as either first-generation wiki or second-generation one.
Um, and, uh, YugaBite, which is a huge, uh, cluster distributed database, uh,
with global scale, which was fun.
I said last week that there were a Postgres database.
That's actually coming soon.
They're actually now, uh, uh, looking at, uh, other protocols.
First, uh, RolaStream, I said it wrong again.
RolaStime is a virtual tabletop software.
It helps you manage your tabletop role-playing games with remote friends and players,
provides many features to share maps, pictures, and it also includes tools to communicate
with other friends and players.
Uh, just added to the schedule is Titan.
Titan makes it easy to run your favorite database in a darker container on your laptop,
but with the power of versioning the underlying data.
Think of it as, um, get for data.
That sounds really fun.
Uh, just kind of, uh, uh, uh, to find out all the upcoming guests as we add them,
go to Twitter, TV slash floss, which is the homepage for this show.
If you have any other suggestions, please tell the project leader or community coordinator
to email me, Merlin at stunhinge.com, uh, that email address is on that page.
So I get plenty of spam.
Don't worry about it.
I've had the same email address since the mid 90s, so I get plenty of spam.
We have a live stream at 9.30 a.m. Pacific time on Wednesdays at live.twit.tv.
Keep in mind that that, uh, delayed saving time changes with the U.S. time.
So even though Europe already moved and, uh, Mexico already moved and a bunch of
the rest of the world already moved, we don't change until this weekend, I think it is coming up.
Um, we have, uh, follow us at at floss weekly on Twitter.
We can follow me at at Merlin, M-E-R-L-Y-N on Twitter.
Uh, you can join us at the forum at twitch.community.
That's the domain name, twitch.community.
I was just at the Google developer expert, GDE, Worldwide Summit,
met 300 of my fellow GDEs and about 100 Googlers there.
Found out some really cool stuff that I can't talk about because we're under an NDA,
but it was wonderful.
And I tell you there's some amazing stuff coming up on Flutter, on Google Maps,
on, um, uh, machine learning, but you're really cool stuff coming up.
And that's all I'm allowed to say.
So that's it for that.
I have nothing else I have on my short-term radar.
Uh, Aaron, you got things to plug?
Uh, yeah, there's a couple of quick things.
So there's some big cloud conferences coming up, uh, which I will be attending for my work,
which is App Dynamics.
Thank you App Dynamics for letting me have a few hours this morning to do floss weekly.
Um, so there's a Microsoft Ignite in Orlando, which is like next week, I think, and uh,
so I'll be there all week, uh, for work.
But if you want to reach out and say hi or whatever, uh, you know, either hit me up on Twitter
or something, I'll try to, I'm going to be on, I'm going to be really busy talking to customers
in, in the booth and doing all kinds of things, but, um, happy to meet people there.
And then also, similarly with AWS reinvent in December, uh, I'll be there as well.
So if you're going to be at one of those conferences and you want to just say hi or, uh, whatever,
uh, let me know.
I'll try to try to make time to meet you somewhere, um, on the show floor.
Um, and, uh, you know, Christmas is just around the corner or whatever holiday you celebrate.
Um, so you can also, uh, pick up my book, Linux for makers, uh, wherever,
better books or sold or something like that.
Um, and last but not least, you know, there are a lot of fires around.
I just want to say, uh, in California here, uh, we're kind of going through it right now,
fire season. So, uh, I just want to say we're, we're thinking about all those
folks that are struggling right now, either being evacuated or without power.
Uh, it's tough around here, but, uh, uh, in fact, even this show was kind of in the air,
whether there'd be power to do the show.
So I just want to say, you know, you kind of been wrapping up that, uh, uh, uh, you know,
I hope, I wish everyone the best as, uh, as they're struggling with the fire season here,
which has been pretty bad this year.
Yeah, something like 200,000 people are now under forced evacuation.
And that's, that's huge. I don't know how that compares with last year's Paradise Fire Fire,
but still it's like, wow. Um, I, I can't imagine that. Uh, I love the fact that like the Airbnb
hosts are opening up their homes to, um, to people giving priority to, uh, to the people
that are displaced. So I'm, I'm really happy for that. Um, and then people want to get rid of
Airbnb that's so silly. Anyway, um, Aaron, thanks for, um, I'm gonna be coughing. Um, Aaron,
thanks for coming on today's show at sort of the last minute, I think actually, but you said,
yes, and therefore you're on. So, um, thanks for, uh, uh, being a fellow podcast,
you're able to ask questions of other fellow podcasters. Yeah, no, it's great that we've all kind
of everyone on the show today has been doing this basically since the same time frame, you know,
uh, so it's kind of, it's kind of like a reunion of sorts. So glad to be here.
In a sense. Yeah, it's definitely cool. Um, cool. And, uh, um, and, and I, I, I second,
what you were saying about the, the, the fires. So it's tough. This, this, this is, uh, I don't know
why the fires are bigger now. And, uh, as one of my co-workers said, uh, a couple days ago,
in one of the chat rooms, he said, uh, uh, well, they said, I have no idea what it was here. She, um,
said, uh, uh, we're, we're not looking forward to the first big rain because
generally what happens to fire is it burns out all of the stuff that slows the stuff coming down
the hill. And we're going to get mudslides that are going to be insane. Um, you know, especially
now this year, the, the fires are coming down, uh, the 405 almost all the way to, um, my co-workers
in, in Santa Monica. I mean, they're, they're feeling the smoke. They're, um, you know,
they're seeing it right out the front window. You know, it's, it's like, uh, I, I've got to be
there in three weeks for all hands, uh, yearly, uh, semi annually, semi annual meeting.
And I'm like, wow. So, uh, I hope that I'll get sorted out by then because, uh,
yeah, let's hope so. Be in the middle of fire and, uh, go ahead. One more thing I forgot
to plug, which is I just saw on the chat that Ohio Linux Fest, which we mentioned a couple of times,
is actually this coming weekend. Uh, I think it's still in Columbus. So if you live in Ohio,
if you're around, we should give them a plug. Uh, it's a great conference, uh, lots of great speakers.
Uh, so if you're, if you're interested in open source or, or Linux, which you must be, if you're
listening to the show, uh, go check out Ohio Linux Fest in, uh, Columbus this weekend. I'm sure
you can sign up and get it. Uh, well, and also I, I think it's a, it's a relatively cheap conference,
which is a nice thing. Yeah. And although I haven't paid for a conference in a year or so,
I have no idea what anything costs anymore. Um, but, uh, I, I think I've been there twice,
maybe three times twice, at least twice. So yeah, and it was an excellent conference. Uh, it was
originally sort of, uh, co, uh, sponsored, not sponsored, but like, uh, co organized by
people to do scale. So that was kind of nice to see that go across. Anyway, hey, we're out of time.
Gotta go. Uh, we'll see you all again next week on floss weekly.
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