hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr3479.txt

Episode: 3479
Title: HPR3479: Linux Inlaws S01E49: Version Control Systems and why bother
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3479/hpr3479.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 00:13:28

---

This is Haka Public Radio Episode 3479 for first ever second of December 2021.
Today's show is entitled, Linux In-Loss S0149, version control systems, and why bother
and is part of the series, Linux In-Loss, it is hosted by Monochrome, and is about 57
minutes long, and carries an explicit flag, the server is, version control systems, and why bother.
This is Linux In-Loss, a podcast on topics around free and open source software,
any associated contraband, communism, the revolution in general, and whatever fence is
your tickle. Please note that this and other episodes may contain strong language,
offensive humor, and other certainly not politically correct language you have been warned.
Our parents insisted on this disclaimer. Happy Mom? Thus, the content is not suitable for
consumption in the workplace, especially when played back in an open plan office or similar
environments, any minors under the age of 35 or any pets including fluffy little killer bunnies,
your trusty guide dog, a lesson speed, and qt-rexes or other associated dinosaurs.
This is Linux In-Loss, Season 1 Episode 49, version control systems, and why bother.
Miss Martin, how are things tonight?
Yeah, things are dark, otherwise you could go inside and turn on the lights.
Ah, that uses energy, isn't it?
Isn't there some conference going on at noon to round?
Yes, it's global warming and sports.
Exactly, it's in Splinter Country called Scotland, which used to be part of something called
the UK, but it's now simply called Special K, as a Kingdom.
We don't finally got rid of the Scots or anything.
And the Welsh and the Northern Irish and other S's, so let's see how that sustained the overall
cable economy long-term.
Well, I guess it will certainly diminish our bare exports to Scotland.
I thought they did their own stuff.
Isn't it located in Scotland?
Yeah, but nobody drinks that.
Well, I do.
Not the Scottish area, just some London hipsters.
Well, I wouldn't consider myself to be London hipster, but I still drink the stuff anyway.
But yes, but then you drink many strange things.
From a lukewarm catfish lover, that's probably correct.
Sorry, perspective, I forgot to sweep that in.
How are you?
Not about the camera people, by the way, if anyone's missing from camera, you call it relays.
Same thing, though, anyway, it doesn't matter.
And well, things have been pretty busy, as of late.
Because Greta got in touch about the school warming thing and the hands glass go.
Yes, we are recording this early November of 2022, I think, on the 23rd.
I can't forget it.
No, probably not in 2022.
Okay.
Maybe post me, maybe.
But time travel is not the subject funny enough of tonight's episode,
but rather Martin wait for it, version control systems.
Okay, how come this is the subject?
Because many people wrote in and say and complained about the fact that they couldn't get to sleep.
Even after the opposite last time episode.
Yes.
So Martin came up with the idea of doing a version control system episode.
Yeah, what a brilliant idea.
To rectify this, to the situation is what it is, why?
Chloe, if you're listening, this is not only for you, but also for you.
It's for who? So I got Claudia here.
Claudia is our only type.
So Martin, what do you know about the hospital control systems?
Oh, they're kind of handy when people develop software.
Perfect, with that, that's the conclusion.
Yes, it's about that.
Thank you for this time.
What did that mean?
This is a record.
No, I mean, I mean, four or five minutes into the show.
Excellent.
We are making progress.
Yes, makes it makes a difference, isn't it?
No, funny enough.
Yes, we go ahead Martin.
Yeah, I think, well, I mean, the first one that probably came across was the old
fax file system version control system, but yeah,
fax file version control system.
Well, in fact, we must say it used to keep the control system.
fax, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yes, yes, but not all the files.
But the same as the source code control system there.
No, no, no, no, no.
It's just this just version files, source code or not.
But it was kind of a start of having multiple versions of
the same thing.
I think that's the first time that I could cross over.
Well, I think that's the first time that I've seen these things for paper tape and
a punch call.
Well, exactly.
I mean, the first version control system would be punch cards and paper tapes,
yes.
Back in the days.
Yeah, it's a bit hard to to branch up there.
Yeah, but things have to be this to say.
Now, I mean, the whole fact goes back to the day, basically, when
you see there was a time when quite a few people worked on a software project.
And this is still continuing today.
I mean, the Linux kernel loan has more than 1,000 main stream contributors,
if not completely mistaken, plus some hobbies also shipping in.
So a project of that complexity requires some sort of infrastructure because otherwise,
it'll all end up in chaos.
So the idea behind source code control system was actually bringing
order to chaos.
And these control systems and these version control systems have been
have been around almost as long as software was developed or has been developed rather.
Indeed, indeed.
Well, obviously, they came around or they became more prevalent when the
development of software was more geographically spread.
And by in yes, in individual companies, they would have been
also source code control systems.
But nowadays, that's obviously more of a global setup rather than
your group of programmers that worked in the same building in the same room.
We're going the same pit software.
Well, that's exactly the drawback of something called open source, right?
So you have all these people who think that they're the next big,
lenders towards and want to contribute to something.
So you have to give them infrastructure in order for that into doing so.
You see, it's at your absolute spot on software development in the open source world.
It has to be global and scalable because it's not just a group of five people,
writing in the home piece of software, which is then put onto a shelf of a company and then
kind of is forgotten about or something like this.
I mean, back in the olden days, you had teams that was way before
children, that was maybe for the agile movement.
Grandfather's talking now.
That was back in the days when you had the VM model and you had other project management
approaches where releasing a piece of software would take about 10 years, maybe five years
depending on the project and you don't and you wouldn't have deployments in sharday,
as in I think Amazon or Netflix or Uber or whatever that is, it's pushing at least a couple of
updates per day. Yeah. That was way before continuous integration continuous development.
So you had and forget about agile.
Well, you have teams. Exactly. You had teams basically that were tasked with business
analysis, then architecture and then coding and then
quarantine insurance and all the rest of it exactly. So even even a small modification
to the code base could easily take weeks, if not months.
Yep. But in contrast to today, where things are much more rapidly moving,
we're talking about at least 15, 20 years back. Oh, yes.
Yeah. Yeah, at least. So going back to the original question,
software versioning system or software control system was actually the,
more or less, the only means at that stage to bring order to the chaos in terms of
multiple working on the project or their project and doing this order in an early fashion.
Yeah. Well, at the point, I mean, it's no different from today. You'd have to
do integration testing. You'd have to build releases, but it's, yeah, that's what
those systems allow you to do, right?
Yes, but you see, alongside the overall approach to developing software,
these version control systems have also changed. We're going to touch upon these in a minute
about the specifics. But back in the old days, for example, source control systems were
server-driven. So you had to have the piece of software in place on the server side,
and then people would use clients on their cloud machines, fun enough to check in pieces of code.
And in contrast to this, if you take a look at Git, and we go and go into the details in a minute,
if you take a look at Git, all you need is essentially a machine with the SSH access.
And then Git does the rest, more or less.
So you don't even, fun enough, you don't even need a centralized instance such as a server,
if you want to do version control on your software.
And that was pretty much facilitated, but yeah, and that was pretty much facilitated by the idea
of when Guinness originally went up Git about 60 years ago, everything that traditional systems,
such as CVS and SVN, SVC and all rest of them wouldn't do exactly. So anything that these
legacy systems would do, Git wouldn't. That was the overall idea.
The so-focus-possibility security and some other key aspects. And much more importantly,
there wasn't any central server instance. That was the important bit.
Yeah, I've got no CVS actually. That's the mention.
Okay, exactly. It's mid-60s. Martin has just concluded his first university semester.
So Martin, why don't you tell us a little bit about the olden days?
The olden days. One of the days there were, there was only one version, which was your paper tape
or your punch card. And yeah, you could only work on it as one person.
And so, you know, you've had any program, nobody else is working on that.
And so that's the show notes may contain a link to a picture of Mr. Vicer in a white
in a white code, being in some sort of labs, a lab in the 60s behind a mate from computer,
right? Yes, he's a software. Indeed, indeed.
I guess if I can wrestle this promise from his cold hands.
Yeah, so yeah, I mean, the programs were very much done in isolation. And then, I guess,
even the Moonlander software was written by various people, but still they did were responsible
for that part of the code, rather than... Yeah, how many of them in the United States were working on the
software? And for this part of the program? Quite a few, right? A thousand more than that, right?
So there must have had some sort of version system in place already, but I think the whole system
really took off or the whole concept really took off with kind of really complex stuff like
Unix, back in the back in the days or mainframe operating systems like MBS or
system something. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, all of these systems were closed source and proprietary.
They were, they were, and expensive. Yes.
So, and then open source came along and then things really exploded, right?
I mean, I can recall back in the day, I can recall having worked at least with
the CVS concurrent version system or whatever, of course. SVT, I came across also Macquarieau
and Bazaar before I joined the Git movement, but more about this in a second. Okay.
And all of these, yeah, all of these, all of these head projects were open source, funny enough.
And some of them I still use today, for example, if you clone the Firefox codebase,
the original repo, I think, is still Macquarieau. And for running enough, the front end
pieces of software, the front end clients, aptly called HG. If you get the pen. Yeah.
And of course, you have GitHub, no, all the rest of it, but when Firefox started out about
what 20, 25 years ago, I think they met the switch, it tends to to Macquarieau and sit on
this ever since. Like even the fact that the browser codebase, I think even supersedes
something that the little kernel, kernel codebase, if I'm not completely mistaken,
sorry, it's just a bit because the browser is actually quite a complex piece these days.
Yeah, that's it.
Saying it's bigger than a codebase, I guess it's got a bit more modular, isn't it?
Some people choose Firefox, yeah, about the same virtue. I mean, you have JavaScript execution
engines, you have renders, you have always obstruction layers, and some other stuff.
Okay. All right, so why don't you tell us why you changed the git?
Well, I mean, there was this chap called Linus Tovers. I don't know if that brings the bad modern,
the name, who came up with his brain idea of doing a terminal emulator back in the early 90s.
And then post a day, post a day, you said, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean
he came up with the brain idea of terminal emulator, dude? That was in 1991 or 92.
No, no, we had to. I was at 90 or something. Sorry? We had terminal emulators before us.
I wasn't finished with the sentence month. Sorry, originally that was meant to be a terminal
emulator for some called menics. But then you have this brilliant idea of basically turning
this into a full blown operating system and post to the use net message. I think it was in 92 or
something was at 91. I can't even remember. And the rest actually is history.
Time again. Yes. So funny enough, they used, I mean, in the initial days, it was just a handful
of contributors, right? So it wasn't, I mean, version control wasn't a big deal because you did
it by email and all the rest of it. But surely afterwards, the number of contributors grew
expansion exponentially. So they had, so they had to come up with something that would scale along.
Yeah, but the number of people working on something is less important. It's more of a fact that
people can work on the same parts of the code base independently.
Yes. When someone has a piece checked out and therefore, they always have the latest version
available if they're working on a related piece code. Yes, exactly. So yes,
funny enough, not all of the little contributors were actually located in Finland.
Quite a few of them actually used to and still do, used to live and work outside,
said country. And never mind, given the fact that when when Lillis was still living in Finland,
they wouldn't or congregate at his house and start coding quite the opposite actually.
They probably wouldn't so. Exactly. Coating on the sauna. Brilliant idea. Yes.
So Lillis had to come up with something called version control system particularly.
Because if you take a look at the kernel history, I mean, I'm support, for example, entered in 95.
So shortly after this whole thing was devised, you already had. I'm support as part of the kernel.
And then some chap started to cut Germany. Late name, late 90s are my dad took a look at the
kernel at the kernel code base and part of this as a scan code project actually to something
called 390 architecture. That wasn't I think 1998 or 1999. But they could only do so because
either this was was really available and it was version controlled. The left side probably not
are being that important. But of course, they had to make some changes because if you take a look
at the little kernel and Martin, you actually spot on it's quite modular. You have.
The majority of the copies is hardware independent, but then you have an architecture layer,
which has to be adopted for each of the processor architecture. It's the architecture that Lillis is
running on. And that's exactly where the changes take place with regards to CPU initialization,
MMU management and all the rest of it as memory management, where you need actually hardware
specifics and sensible in terms of design. And this is how this is actually how portable operating
systems are architected anyway. So, and of course, these IBM people had to feedback the changes
so that would that Lillis then could add a 390 architecture to the set of supported architecture
for something called the Lillis kernel. At the time that we're using a service called BitKeeper,
if I'm a completely mistaken links maybe in the show notes. But mid teens or early or early teens
actually teens zeros as in 20223 something. The company behind BitKeeper decided to take the
service offline and to migrate to provide a product resourceware. And that's exactly when
they said this is not happening and we have to move away from this. And this is how Git came into
existence. Lillis had this requirement of already foreseeing that the Lillis kernel would probably be
the biggest open source project in history on the planets. So name a bigger one in terms of
contributors. Are reckon even your browser pales in comparison to Linux. Yes, but the gods
what is the question in the first eating bit? Well, I think at that stage 32 bit 64 bit was already in
place. Mainframe architectures was supported almost there. Intel was there of course because this
is what Linux used to develop the first versions. And people were picking up the copes rapidly
in the embedded space for webcams even back then. And for all sorts of things as in as in
PlayStation type like type device and all the rest of it. So you had to device be a little
so lots of course you had to device a version control system that would scale alongside the growing
number of contributors to that code base. And hence Git was born. Yeah, and I think most people
have been using it since really and therefore not just Linux. Do you know what it stands for?
Do I know what it stands for? Well, it doesn't have the normal
CS in it, but most of the systems have, but no, I couldn't tell you what it stands for.
No, I think Linux, I'm not sure about the code, but Linux is the finished version of it.
No, Linux, I think if I recall this correctly once had that he's he names all the important
projects after him. And of course being a git being a stupid person, he wasn't too far away here.
No, if you actually type man git as an if you invoke the manual page, the name says actually
git the stupid content tracker. So it's actually the mini behind git. Yeah, no, if it's not
exactly intelligence, that's true. Well, you see probably now is the time to shed some light
on the mechanics behind the version control system, right? Yeah, why not? And I think
in that regard, git is quite intelligent, funny enough. Okay, it's just with the versions, of
course, version control systems should be able to manage the versions. And if you actually
vet up software, you come normally across the necessity to develop something called branch,
meaning you take the existing version of the code base. And for example, if you want to experiment
with the code, you create a copy of this. This branch then may contain changes to code base,
which probably haven't quite fully been tested yet, more or less your playground.
Every version control system that I know, including legacy ones, does support the notion of
branch. Once you have concluded your development, you normally check this back in again,
creating a new branch, so to speak. And then git that would be the main header, so to speak.
I mean, git, you can, you can imagine git like a log like structure, where people simply commit
changes, well, check out versions, modify the copies, commit versions, and then push the,
push any perspective repo. And this is exactly the workflow that is no different in other
version control systems. They all pretty much work the same way. Under the hood, of course,
they're quite different. For example, here, CVS and SVT normally rely on server being present.
git doesn't, because git only relies on a file system. Push comes to shove. This can be as simple
as an SSH connection, as a matter of fact, our webpage, which is of course maintained by git
as a version control system, doesn't have a central server instance because we only have a machine
currently sponsored by IBM and other companies, I think, marketing is anything to go by.
That has one central feature. It has an SSH access. And that's all that is needed
for for the two of us and some other people to work on the website.
Yeah, so people often refer to these things as trees as well. It has the name branch.
Yeah. And yeah, so sometimes people call them trunks, don't they? Anyway,
this is where you start at botnys, right? In your vehicle?
Only if you remember. Where's botnys? Where's botnys?
Well, in England, he would give it a record. How would you say in England? Not
but something else, right? And what would you say in England? How would you call that in England?
It's not it's not a bonus. Something else, right? Boot. Yes, exactly.
I couldn't tell you the German name.
Kofferholm. How is Kofferholm? Yes. Yes. The place to start that body,
if carrot, but exactly, if carrot by a car. Exactly. That's exactly it. Yes.
Okay. Back to the notion of trees or trees or whatever. Exactly. And intelligent
software control, software version control systems actually allow you, for example,
something called rebasing, meaning you split the history of a commit chain into separate parts,
which, of course, you have to, well, I mean, what devil are we going to explain this,
because most people that nobody may know what a commit is. Martin, why don't you fill us in then?
Well, you were on the roll, so I thought you came in. I thought I mentioned the fact that you
commit a chain to Kofferholm already. What does that mean? Okay. Okay. You check out a Kofferholm
base that, for example, in Git terms, and I'm using Git just one example form for version control
system, because the other ones work pretty similar, although, as I said, the things on the
load are quite different. If you clone a code base or you check it out to use a good term,
and then you modify it by committing the changes you aim at making, at feeding back,
these changes into the main repository. In Git terms, that means adding the changed
files to something called staging area. Once you commit the staging area, this is then ready
to be pushed back to the main repository, which, as I said, can be as simple as a server running
SSH. Git will then under the hood take care of identifying the changes and storing them
in a file system. Right. So what happens after you commit?
Then everybody can, well, once you push the changes to the main repo, everybody can see these
changes, but simply to use again a Git term by pulling down the latest version of the repo.
I won't go into the technical details. There are terms like master, hat, and all the rest of it
floating around. There's an excellent website for Git called git-smimes-cm.org or some
flotters. Details will be in the show notes, and Git I think is probably the version control system
that has the best documentation on the planet, if memory serves correctly.
Of course, that wasn't just Linux doing this, but quite a few other people too. So as I said,
if you are new to Git, this is the website to check out. So once you have pushed this,
everybody can see the changes by simply putting down these changes and also advancing their
local copy of the commit chain, if that makes any sense. Okay, what can I say? I have made any
changes themselves locally. And this is what the fun starts. Then you essentially have to merge
changes. And you can do this in a dump way like the old days where some version control systems
just chose to override the last commit, which is not really that intelligent. That's not really
embedded, isn't it? No, it's so right. But more modern approaches, basically, including Git,
do it the intelligent way and simply merge the deltas as it lifts to use Linux term.
And Git, to some extent, and the details, as I said, are on the website, Git is able to recon
style the deltas already automatically as part of a commit. Only if you have a conflict, for
example, with regards to a specific file, Git will reflect this and say, sorry, I cannot kind of
put this into the repo because somebody else was was before you. So in that case, you simply
have the possibility of pulling down that chain and essentially merging your changes with them
on your local copy before you push it back to the repo again. I'm simplifying things.
More details, as I said, as part of the Git documentation.
Yeah, okay, cool.
Yeah, so it also depends on how you develop, I guess, and how you organize your development
in terms of branches, because some people just work on the master branch and keep it that way.
And some people prefer to make many different, let's call it trunk to separate code lines.
Well, it depends on a year requirements and be what type of code you are in with regards to your
local pregnant playgrounds. I mean, some people just love complexity and thrive on complexities.
I don't, for that matter. And the impositives, yes.
And I mean, Git really shines with the more, with more developers you throw at it because
one of the central features, apart from securities, actually scalability, because this is what
Git is pretty good at. Yeah, my point being is that Git is the tool and you can use it in many
different ways of development styles or the way you organize your development.
Oh, absolutely. Guns come to my right, Martin. You can use a gun as a little to defend your house,
or you can use guns to actively or proactively shoot people.
Interesting. Yeah, I'm not quite a thought of that either.
Immediately when I was discussing your development, hey, what do I know?
This is just a little situation.
It's obviously completely different.
Mind, can you still free the buy guns in Germany? He used to be able to.
No, you can't.
And I can't recall a time when that was possible.
Oh, no, no, I can't remember.
Guns are highly regulated, isn't it?
No, they always happen, Martin.
We, Martin, you shouldn't confuse illegal gun buying with legal one.
No, no, no.
I remember very clearly as a small boy driving over to Germany and buy guns.
But you do have gun shops where you've guns were.
Yes, but you would have to have a license in order to buy a gun.
Okay.
You probably used one of these Dutch fake licenses, right?
When you just said, I didn't buy one when I was eight years old, but
why didn't you Martin?
Indeed.
Yeah, just had a recollection there.
There's had any time.
No, you don't.
I was gun shopper that sold arm with my recollection.
You don't have gun shops in the Netherlands?
No.
And what about the UK, sorry, what about special K?
No, no.
So where do you get your guns from in the case in K?
You'd have to ask someone that has a requirement for.
Well, as far as I can recall, about 90% of the rural population are guns.
Really?
Oh, shotguns, yeah, that's different.
What do you mean is different?
My shotgun is farthest from flying birds and stuff.
For shooting things, exactly.
Like guns are too.
Yes, but they're different.
You're talking about a concealed weapon.
Okay, got it.
So, I mean, quite a few people are reckon,
I mean, not everybody in K can fly to the US and audit by guns.
So there must have some sort of local supply.
Hi, I might be in the show, but I can't help you without afraid.
You so you don't own guns?
Uh, no.
Okay.
Not living in America, so no.
Or in Germany for that matter.
I mean, the stuff basically you can buy at the, in these, in these,
uh, weapon shops are mostly, uh, mostly handguns, uh, almost, no, sorry,
I'm mostly shotguns, uh, handguns.
I mean, do you have a special permit?
Yes.
Okay.
And you're talking backgum shots and all the rest of it.
You cannot simply walk into a shop and buy a gun.
This is not America.
Well, some strange reason, maybe things have changed recently.
But we digress.
This is not the gun.
This is not the gun podcast.
No, this is actually the lens in last podcast.
So we're, we're okay.
Um, branches and trucks and all the rest of it.
Yes.
So yes, it allows you more other things basically.
For example, to support rebasing, which comes in handy.
If you want to, if you want to identify, for example,
the point in your commit chain where things went wrong.
Meaning, you find you, you, or somebody else commits, changes ABC.
Martin then commits, changes, uh, D.
And somewhere in the middle, the whole thing fucks up in terms of reading breaks.
Maybe it doesn't, maybe it does compile.
But you have a segmentation violation before you even start the program.
I mean, running back to previous version, right?
Yes, exactly.
And this is exactly what where rebasing comes in in terms of, um,
you can identify the point in time where a simply a version stops working.
Well, uh, if that makes sense, yeah.
You can then try the commit number or whatever you want to call it.
Exactly.
Um, yeah.
You can easily go back to the version that works.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, that's a very good description of this.
Yeah.
Okay, back to that.
Get us quite hipster, frankly.
And yes, um, oh, yes.
Uh, get if you're listening to the address, the sponsor,
at limits in Los Adi.
Well, I mean, you say the hipster, friendly,
but there are obviously very, uh, development tools that, uh,
no, yeah, exactly.
I mean, the, the, the, the beauty about Git is,
and this is somewhat different to the likes of Mercurial, Bazaar,
and some other legacy systems.
And people, yes, I know there are Emacs, major modes,
or minor modes for all of them.
So don't you be?
But Git is probably the version control system that has the best integration
in hipster tools like VS Code, as a Visual Studio Code,
PyCharm, Snowstorm, whatever that PHP thing is called these days,
and IntelliJ, and Eclipse, and you name it.
Yep, I mean, if you open Visual Studio Code,
it'll detect that the dot Git file is present,
and we'll immediately integrate the whole thing into your version control system,
the purpose that you're trying to add in.
And this is quite fancy, actually.
Mm-hmm.
And it's a little,
it's right there, as well, the day.
What did it look like?
The Visual Studio Code, now, I think it's written by Bazaar
from Dicor Microsoft.
Yeah, okay.
It's the open source.
Uh, Visual Studio Code is, yes.
How come?
Do we know?
Because Microsoft decided to open source it.
That's nice of them.
Anyway, sorry, we'd like this, yeah.
Indeed we do.
In contrast to Visual Studio, we just not open source,
and it has to be bought or something from Microsoft.
Anyway, uh, so, yeah, that's the bottom line.
In terms of, uh, all of the kind of things that hipsters,
and other people who program in fancy coffee shops like,
support more or less these days, support Git.
Plus the fact that, of course, we shouldn't,
we shouldn't forget to mention that there are quite a few commercial offsprings
that have functionality,
that have the functionality built into.
I mean, like a good, well, yes, it's called a browser,
and the whole, and the whole tool chain is called GitHub.
It's that thing's a bell mountain.
You probably use it every day working at your,
or you used to work at your hipster GPU database thingy, right?
What's the name of the company?
Brightlight, Brightlight?
Brightlight, yes.
Brightlight, yes.
But I mean, everybody uses, uh, well,
I don't know, pretty much everybody.
No, some, some remaining people use actually something called GitLab.
Which is a somewhat comparable offering.
It's an open core company, pretty much like Redis and all the rest of them.
And the idea is basically to have a community edition,
which is free of charge, open source, and all the rest of it.
But then if you want to do enterprise type fees,
you have to rely on commercial license.
Right.
And of course, there are also pure open source alternatives available.
For example, Gitaire comes to mind,
which the luck actually that I'm supporting uses for funny enough their website.
Okay.
So that's a, that's a, that's a,
you know, what's the reason for using this?
It has a browser interface, among other things.
Some, some of the, some of the hipsters that are part of the website team for the
luck prefer browser access.
And it has a nice browser based administration,
an administration interface.
And that sort of thing that hipsters really like,
especially the 50 plus, plus old hipsters that form something called the Frankfurt
and Little Geoza Group.
Okay.
They're like the GUIs.
They're like the browser access, yes.
Because I mean, setting up a project in Git is a little bit of an effort.
In terms of you have the administer users that have access to the project,
you have commit rights on all the rest of it.
And this is where these kind of Git lab GitHub Gitaire projects really shine.
Because they have functionality built into this.
And GitHub does, of course, as well.
Because this is how GitHub makes their money.
By enterprise features, setting this on a subscription basis.
That's how the whole thing works.
This is where Microsoft shared out how many billions for this.
Yeah.
One of those things like this.
It was amazing.
It was quite a good chunk of money.
It was a good amount of money and people at the time were wondering why they did such a thing.
It's probably branding, but I'd like rest.
Anyway, to kind of long story short,
this add on this added functionality on top of pure Git,
you don't get out of the box with Git.
So people started to build their ecosystems around.
And Gitaire is probably the best example.
It has a nice browser-based access.
It has a very funky CICD integration.
It has continuous integration,
continuous development integration,
which makes the work,
the associated workflow with code maintenance and
and modification, just a breeze,
including setting up projects,
team members on all the rest of it.
For example, we use Google as a static website generator.
More on the architecture,
Ken, because I'm a file-in if you're listening,
in an upcoming episode is already planned for next year,
where the beans will be spilled on how we do it.
But it's supposed to say,
if you check in a change of the website,
like a markdown file,
what Gitaire on the background does is through a
and get the same pretty much, through a commit,
so through a so-called commit hook,
it actually triggers a Hugo invocation
that simply rebuilds the website on the fly.
So you pull down the website,
you change a file,
you commit this file,
you push the changes to the Gitaire instance,
and then on the fly,
the website is rebuilt using Google plus a few other things.
Okay, sounds rather handy.
Exactly, which is quite handy.
Yeah.
Because we have about six people working on the website
simultaneously, as in concurrently.
Okay, um, links and show notes for the website name.
Like Frankfurt.de.
But Gitaire is probably much more interesting for the people
who are thinking along similar lines.
And of course, the Gitaire link will be in the show notes.
Okay.
Got it.
So for the few listeners who we didn't manage to put us deep yet.
Martin, any final thoughts on version control systems?
Final thoughts.
I think, um, yeah, um,
from the clunky version commercial versions of the
at 90s to what we have these days.
There's been progress indeed.
And, um, it all works rather well, I would say.
It takes a little bit of, uh, but not very long
to get you to see these things sort of work hardy work.
But um, once you have done that,
they are very easy to work with.
And it keeps your code manageable and
put.
Plus the fact that as, as I already kind of touched upon,
the, the, the, the, all prevalent visible present,
whatever you want to call it,
Git thing is built into most IDE2 checkings.
Yes.
Yes.
And this makes things really, really easy.
So, I mean,
it does change.
Changing a file is simply, or actually putting,
or committing a change back is as simply as,
as changing of, as saving a file.
And then either some email package or some visuals
to decode integration texture of rest.
And also, basic flags and a conflict
and gives you tools at your disposal to resolve these conflicts
pretty much out of the box without having to resort to
mysterious command line and things if you choose to do so.
Yeah, I mean, come on, line of hipsters.
We don't really go together in the same sentence, right?
I think I'm the only hipster in my local coffee shop
that used the command line.
Since when are you a hipster?
I've always been, I've been, I've been,
I've been, we've done some time travel like that.
Martin, there are a few things you don't know.
The machine is working again, isn't it?
Yes.
Excellent.
Okay, before I forget, we should probably,
before we conclude this episode,
discuss poxies.
Oh.
Yes.
And as, what if you regularly, this, this will recall poxies
are our picks of the week in terms of if, if Martin has come
across something apart from special, okay,
which is, of course, also a, what's the most about the
placebo, a well-known placebo song?
I might add.
So it's the cereal, isn't it?
No, yes, but placebo simply borrowed this as a title for one
of the songs.
Okay.
And that would actually, yes.
And that would actually mean my pox, as in, yeah,
and I'm confused, what's your point?
My pox is special, okay, as in the placebo song,
and now known as a country,
northeast of something called the Netherlands,
sorry, Northwest, it used to be an aisle formally known
as the North Kingdom, but now it's all,
it's just called special, okay?
Because the Splinter groups like Wales and Scotland and
Northern Ireland such breakaway for reason.
We are recording this in February 2022.
No, we're not.
We are Martin, this is the number 20.
Martin clearly hasn't enjoyed the, the, the, the, the,
the advantage of time travel.
Yeah.
No people formally, this country was known as
United Kingdom, but forget about the United United.
Lizzy, if you're listening, good luck with you,
good luck to you, just stay in sorry, just in case.
Well, she's struggling with the health of the moment, she.
That's my understanding, yes.
So the dissolving union didn't exactly have matters,
but that's beside the point anyway.
Okay, what's your pox?
Yeah, it is.
I'm just trying to remember the name.
I could tell you the story, I don't know the name in a minute.
Um, this is a story about an FBI agent who
infiltrates a far right organization in the US.
Um, yes.
The name you're looking for is Donald Trump.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Are you sure it's an organization?
I'm just checking this out.
Um, it's, um, what's his name Harry Potter is in it?
Daniel, how did you put it in for the FBI?
Nice one.
Is that one of the sequels I haven't watched yet?
Clearly, yes, this is the latest Harry Potter you probably know.
Nice one.
Germany, I imagine.
So what's the angle here apart from dark magic?
No, no, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of interesting.
Um, I don't know if it's just the FBI, the FBI, okay.
Yeah, it's one of the more play a part.
I wonder if it puts up a pretty good American accent as well.
So it's not bad.
One of the more or Harry Potter above.
No, all the more doesn't, doesn't feature in this movie, unfortunately.
It doesn't, okay.
No, no, uh, anyway, so the, um,
yeah, so it's, it's, it's, it's definitely worth watching.
It's fine.
It's name in the show.
Not really, if we can dig this up.
That's kind of a moment of name here.
As with all these American films, they all have like a two-word title, no name, which
are very similar, but it's, it's, uh, it's definitely worth watching.
It's a very good, um, uh, yeah.
I think the movie is quite federal magic.
Um, um, um, um, um, anyway, maybe there's no such thing as that kind of magic.
Imperium, there you go, the film is called Imperium.
Imperium?
So what's the story, London?
Oh, yeah, in future, I, the FBI and then what?
No, no, no, no, he works for the FBI.
He works for the FBI.
Okay, uh, some, some cesium has been stolen.
And he, uh, this suspicion is that this is going to a far right group.
So he infiltrates these, um, organizations and tries to find it.
And that's a TV series or movie or movie.
It's a movie, yeah, it's movie.
Movie, okay.
Available on Disney plus Netflix, whatever.
As the 2016 movie, so movie, so probably 2016.
Okay, it's ancient.
Yes, yes, only just recently.
Children 2016 was the year when this was studio just got the light of the day or something.
I didn't think no, it's going to be old though, no.
Visual City code, no, sorry, not Visual City, but Visual City code.
No, I think it was around that time, yeah.
No, well, okay.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know, that's just, this feels like a movie.
No, something happened in 2016.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
From Mungo, Mungo floated.
Really?
If memory subscribes correct, yes.
Mungo, of course, who, uh, who, for the few listeners,
eight still awake and be, remember that episode on, on the databases,
with Professor Meyer featuring Professor Meyer.
Of course, Mungo would be a no-secure database.
And that company floated 2016.
Yeah, it's, it's, and Martin still regrets the fact
that he didn't buy shares at the time.
Not really, I was never a fan of Mungo TV.
Martin, they floated at 27, and now are worth 550 or something like this?
Yeah, you need money, right?
Exactly, but who does not anyway go, go with the open source, uh,
um, what's the call? It's, uh, ideal visits.
If the employer of said Mr. Vista is listening, Martin has just decided to not,
to donate his salary to worth, to worth the cause.
So stop the paychecks and just send it to a, a charity of your choice.
Because it's just money as we just heard anyway.
I don't really work, does it?
Because then I can't eat and I can't have a house.
So then I can't work for the money.
Oh, so there's this, this is called my standards, right?
I see, but Martin, as we just don't, it's only money anyway.
You know, it's why I keep working for them.
It's clever.
I've got that class, I see.
Martin's just trying to, trying to wiggle his way out of this one.
Okay.
Okay, that's pretty much it.
Any parting thoughts?
My own thoughts?
Not for me.
Well, it's Halloween after all.
So happy Halloween.
Yes, and we're recording the, yeah, in 2022,
Halloween has moved to February of 2022.
It's part of this flux compensator,
transductor thing or whatever, I don't know.
Maybe picking such, such a cheap mechanic wasn't the best idea after all, Martin.
It seems to be something seriously wrong with the machine.
Yes, thank you for listening and looking forward to hearing from you in terms of feedback.
Oh, yes, feedback, feedback.
If you have any feedback, now we don't have feedback.
Now we don't have feedback, but if you have feedback for us,
the address is feedback and Linux in loss.eu.
Likewise, if you have enough money, because as we, as we understand,
as Martin right observed, it's only money anyway.
We just love to take a cash.
The email address is sponsored and Linux in loss.eu.
Especially if you happen to be Microsoft IBM, sorry, not IBM.
IBM, if you're listening, we do not take cash.
We only take, no, no, we only take cash.
That's very important.
Other companies may be able to give us credit card details,
but we only take cash from IBM for obvious reasons.
Oh, or anyway.
Yes, Bitcoin is always appreciated,
but so is cold hard cash, especially coming forward for IBM.
Anyway, with that, are you looking forward to the job?
No, I'm not why.
Okay, no, Martin, they would have to pay me in cash.
Why I trust it wouldn't work for me, no, not really.
Okay, left set.
And I said, yes, you next.
Joke aside, yeah, I'll be able to sing and want to get in touch.
Yeah, he addresses me and then it's exactly sponsored.
Sponsors are underscores IBM at this in Australia.
Especially even rest just for you.
Anyway, do send a smile and looking forward to having you back soon.
This is the Linux in-laws you come for the knowledge.
But stay for the madness.
Thank you for listening.
This podcast is licensed under the latest version of the Creative Commons license,
Tap Attribution Share Like.
Credits for the entry music go to bluesy roosters,
for the song Salut Margot,
to twin flames for their piece called The Flow,
used for the second intros,
and finally to the lesser ground for their songs we just is,
used by the dark side.
You find these and other ditties licensed
under Creative Commons at your Mando.
The website dedicated to liberate the music industry
from choking corporate legislation and other crap concepts.
Euh yes but you didn't get them all right,
Because I'm not sure if he was the seed marketing is asking why you haven't fired them yet because it's over
Is there's that new record
You tell me mr. Visor it sounds like it
Maybe they're with cheap everything I'll cheap I see
Very good, we can keep them for a bit. Yeah
Can we know and if you're still living in the strange country called the deep
UK
Which is where it's it's it's KV says because the union will break away soon, right? So I don't know a country a country named K excellent
Black special case
Dying break away, but you yeah, you seem to be out of touch with reality mr. Ritter. Oh, I don't watch the news
Oh
No, waste of time
Indeed
But you're still funny to BBC that's so that's okay, and again, yes, it's very unfortunate. I should really
Bloody TV license draw the months they produce it's absolutely rubbish
Well plus you're paying for your Netflix subscription on top
No, I don't have Netflix
This is a plus
Disney plus. Yes. Yes. There you go. Same thing almost
Well, it's better than the BBC
Is that hard to achieve?
You've been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public Radio dot org today's show was
Contributed by an HBR listener like yourself if you ever thought of recording a podcast then click on our
Contributing to find out how easy it really is hosting for HBR is kindly provided by an honest host dot com
The internet archive and our sync dot net unless otherwise stated today's show is released under a creative commons
Attribution share like lead us all license