hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr4022.txt

Episode: 4022
Title: HPR4022: dumping roms for fun and profit
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4022/hpr4022.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 18:45:37

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This is Hacker Public Radio, episode 4,000, and 22 for Tuesday 2 January 2024.
Today's show is entitled, Dumping Roms for Fun and Profit.
It is hosted by Brian in Ohio, and is about 17 minutes long.
It carries a clean flag.
The summary is using 4th to do something useful.
Hello, Hacker Public Radio, Brian in Ohio, here I'm out from under my rock.
And before I start into the meat of this show, I wanted to mention a couple things.
First off, I was listening to the No Agenda Show, if you don't know what the No Agenda
Show, it's a twice-weekly media deconstruction podcast, link in the show notes.
And I heard Pokey was at one of their meet-ups, they have meet-ups all over the world.
And Pokey was at one in whatever local area he lives in, and all I have to say is Pokey.
If you have time to do a No Agenda meet-up, you probably have time to record a show for HPR.
Enough said.
The second one was the episode that I recorded about the Z80 membership card.
I got the link to that show, got posted on a site called Two Stop Bits.
Two Stop Bits is kind of a hacker news, kind of news.
People throw links up and things that they think are appropriate and interesting.
And Two Stop Bits is about retro computing.
So that showed it up there, and a guy, I'm assuming it's a guy, BX Parks, he left the comment,
and his comment was that he doesn't like podcasts.
He thinks they're too slow for the data.
He gives some words per minute stuff, and that's fine, that's his opinion.
He then proceeds to write a long post about the Z80 membership card.
And he then, I would go to another site, and there's somebody that posted something about fourth,
the language fourth.
And he posted there that he thought fourth was terrible, that it's unusual,
and not only that nobody ever does anything useful with fourth.
So this episode is about me doing something useful with fourth.
And what it is is dumping the prom from an old 1990s single board computer.
And so this continues my mania of trying to learn more about Z80 computers,
and eventually building my own Z80 computer.
I know it's nothing new, but I've never done it, so it's new to me.
And there's no episodes about this in HPR from what I can tell.
So I got this device via eBay, KGG through people up in Canada,
and I paid $20, that's about $700 Canadian dollars, and for the device.
And it's a cool little computer.
It's got sort of a cyberdeck kind of feel to it.
It's got actually a kind of a decent keyboard.
It's got a little one-line character LCD that's not very good.
And it's got a part for adding cartridges.
It's got some built-in programming.
It's got some games and some typing tutor.
It has a basic interpreter on it, so you can actually do some programming on it.
And so to me, it's a device that seems like it would be cool to do some changes.
Mostly, the first thing I would love to do is
swap out that single-line LCD for maybe a 20 by 4,
or even I've got some 4 by 40 character LCDs, big ones.
Something like that would make it kind of cool, and then figure out how to store files
on some other peripheral, et cetera, et cetera.
So the place to start with a device like this,
well, there's a million places to start.
The place I decided to start was to figure out
what the underlying programming, what's built into the device.
And when I opened it up, I'm not surprised.
It's got a read only memory, which was pretty sure
would have all of the code necessary to run all of the games and all that stuff.
And so what I looked at the device, and it's a very neatly laid out
single-sided PC board.
And all of the devices, there's no secret devices.
Nothing with names scratched off like they do now,
because this was in the 90s when people were cool.
And so the prime on the device, and yes, it's a prime,
is a TC53100CP, so first off, proms.
So, prom is a kind of read-only memory.
The difference between a ROM and a prom is a ROM
is manufactured with the code built-in,
whereas a prom is a sort of a generic device that is programmed,
but can only be programmed one time.
And unlike other, you're probably more,
what you hear about more now is e-proms, where they're electrically
erasable proms, so you can read them, write them,
erase them, put a new stuff on them.
This is not that kind of device.
It's a one-time done, one- once programmed, and that's done.
But fortunately, it's a pretty easy pin to access to.
It's a, in a dip package, dual-in-line package, a 28-pin device,
and there are all kinds of e-prom readers out there.
Some of them are pricey, some of them are less pricey.
You can make your own, and that's what I did with this,
because there's really no way that I could see easily
to find something to build or read what's off of this device.
So, but with an Arduino, some fourth code, some wires,
you can dump an e-prom.
And this is how I did it.
First thing I did was I used an Arduino mega running flash forth.
It's the same Arduino mega that I was using
to do some of the Z80 timing stuff that I did a couple
up a few episodes ago.
And, excuse me, the reason I would use an Arduino mega
is because it's got lots and lots of ports, lots and lots of IO.
And I needed it because this device is a 28-pin device.
Like I said, it's actually a, has a 17-bit address space.
So, it has one mega bit of memory on the device.
That's mega bit, not mega byte.
It's had, which is ranged in 128K of 8-bit bytes.
So, the device has normally a 16-bit address
but you'd be able to access 64K of some kind of memory.
Because it's got that extra bit, it doubles that.
And so, I was kind of thinking that this is somehow divided
into two pages of ROM.
And that the processor would access that in two different ways.
What I'm thinking as I get started here.
But to figure that out, we're going to need to dump the problem.
So, I desoldered the problem from the board.
I put a socket there so I could replace, put it back on the board.
And then, actually dumping the RAM with the interactive
nature of fourth was pretty, pretty straightforward.
Just took a little bit of a, a little bit of a programming session,
but the, the, the way it would work, I saw from the data sheet
of the device. I would, you need to set an address, a valid address.
And then, you would enable the chip with the chip enable signal.
And then, you, it outputs data on the data bus, which is an 8-bit bus.
And then, you could read the data.
So, what I ended up doing, the tricky parts were actually the,
the physical wiring. There was a lot of wires to get this thing hooked up from,
so there's a, there's a wire to, I had to wire it up by port.
And the ports on the Arduino Maker kind of crammed together.
And I've got a picture in the show notes.
So, it's kind of a wiring mess, but got to wire it up.
And then, there was, the next kind of fiddly part was,
was some of the timing issues.
The Arduino Mega goes actually pretty fast at 16 megahertz
for a device of this, this, this, this vintage.
And so, I had to work out some of the delays and timing of when to put,
how long to wait after settling the address bus to, to enable the chip to read the data.
And I just took a little experimenting.
Well, again, with the interactive nature fourth, it was really easy to do.
And once I got settled on some good values, I, a delay values,
I hard-coded that into the program.
And then, I was able to start reading the, the data off of the chip.
And what it does is it, it, it, it puts an address on the bus,
does that chip enable signal, puts it on the data bus,
the, the Arduino reads that, a bit of data from the, from the,
from the, from the, from the, from the data port, excuse me.
And then, it outputs it to the serial terminal.
And, and that just, that's, then you go through the whole address space
and you can get every, every byte of code now.
That, that's written out in ASCII text.
This is, but what it's on, the chip is actually, is actually hexadecimal, right?
It's binary.
And so there's, there's a little bit more to, um, to this and just capturing it that way.
Uh, once I saw that I was getting reliable, uh,
data, and what I meant by that is I could read it once and read it again,
and read it again, and, and I was getting the same data out.
I figured at that point, if it's getting the same thing every time,
it's probably working.
It's either perfectly broken or perfectly working.
So I, so I was optimistic and thought it would be perfectly working.
Uh, and then I just modified the, the, the fourth code, uh, to output the data
on the serial terminal as intel hex file format.
Uh, if you have, don't know what intel hex file format is,
listen to the last show I did.
If you don't like e-speak, you can read about it in Wikipedia.
And if you don't like that, I'll just tell you that basically what it is,
is it takes binary data, turns it into ASCII text,
and shoots it out to something on a file,
so that you get a readable code, a readable record that's an ASCII.
And that's what I did.
It, uh, this, this thing went through, uh, I think I did 16, uh,
bytes at a time, created the, each record with a crop proper checksum
and the proper header, and it would go on to the next, uh,
bytes all the way through the address space, uh,
creating this large hexadecimal file.
I'll put a snippet of that in, in the show notes,
just, uh, but not the whole thing, it's pretty big.
And then, uh, uh, it just spit that out onto the serial terminal.
Now, you can use any kind of serial terminal to do this, uh,
you can use minicom, or, um, putty, or, uh,
whatever people would use on Windows or Mac, I have no idea.
But anyway, that's, I use actually EMAX.
EMAX has a built-in serial terminal, uh, mode,
and I just used EMAX to dump out the file, the data into a nice file,
and then I just, uh, copied and pasted that and saved it as an intel hex file
with a dot hex, uh, a dot hex, um, ending on the file.
Uh, and, but that's, so that's it.
I've got, what's, I did that a few times.
It actually took about an hour to dump all this data
and write it out to the serial term, uh, I did it a couple times,
and verified it using diff to make sure it was the same stuff.
Did it actually probably about three or four times, to be honest?
And it actually was spitting out the same data every time,
and so I was happy with that, and then I just saved it to a file.
In two pages, page, page one, uh, with that upper byte set at zero,
eight, and then the second time through with the upper byte set at one,
and, um, well, now they, now you've got an intel hex file.
Well, what can you do with that? Uh, well, there's,
there's a tool called hex to bin, and it's a tool used for converting hexadecimal files,
either Motorola Intel format into binary files,
and you need a binary file to, to be able to disassemble it,
to, to turn it, because the binary file is the machine code,
and the, the machine code was created by an assembly program,
and it's, you know, you write out assembly code, the assembler assembles it into
machine code, and you end up with a binary file that you upload to your,
to your, to, in this case, they, uh, the, the manufacturer of this device
uploaded to this prompt. Um, what I'm trying to do is the reverse. I'm,
I've got now a binary file, and I wanted to turn back into that assembly language program,
so that I can do some analysis. And so first step was to turn it that, um,
that Intel hex file that I created with a fourth device,
you doing something useful with fourth, and, uh, I, uh, then, um,
that took that hex file, ran it through hex to bin, and that created a
binary file. Now, then you take that binary file, and you have to run it
through a, uh, a tool called a disassembler. And there are,
there are actually a lot of Z80 disassemblers out there, at least not for Linux,
but there is one, it's called Z80 DASM, it's in the show notes, and, um,
I, uh, run that, ran that, uh, binary file through that disassembler,
and it generated what looks like reasonable assembly code. It's a big program,
and you have to also, uh, when you're using a disassembler, you have to recognize that
it's guessing it all the, all the, the values, and some of the values that it thinks are valid,
uh, they are actually valid upcodes for the Z80, but really they're just data. And so you have to
sort of, luckily, this, um, you, you then, after you've disassembled it, you, it has a, um,
you can use another, uh, program to look at that, that disassembled file, and you can see it'll
have, uh, your hex code, your assembly code on one side, and then it'll have hex code on the other
side, and you can, um, kind of make guesses at what's data and what's not data. Some of it's easy,
some of it's text, and you can say, oh, that's definitely text that's data, but some of it's,
uh, probably numbers or something, I'm not sure, this can be take a while to figure that out.
Uh, uh, in that light, there's another tool called Guidra. Guidra is, uh, product of the NSA,
and it actually, for some reason, the NSA has decided that the Z80 processor is a,
a worth supporting in their, in their, in their, in their tool, which is a huge tool.
Um, and they, uh, maybe there, maybe they're disassembling old Game Boy cartridges,
because that's all Z80 stuff. Anyway, so Guidra is out there is another way of analyzing that
a binary file, and so, uh, and that's right now. Got, I've got a couple of tools to work through
this code. Um, the goal for me now is to find some entry point into, into the code that has, um,
that, that where I can see where key presses are being captured, where, and where data is being sent
to the LCD, and then after that, I'm going to have to figure out some kind of, uh, different,
something to, um, replace that problem, uh, some kind of e-prom. I'm not probably
have to make a little board or something to, uh, to make it fit the right, uh, to fit the pin out,
but other than that, shouldn't be too hard. And then I can start uploading new code and see,
seeing how it falls. If I would really like to be able to figure out how that LCD works,
we're, what port it's using, uh, and then put on, write something more standard, uh, uh, uh,
uh, need, because there's all kinds of LCD drivers out there that are, that are, that are the Z80
can use. Uh, so that's where, that's what I'm trying to do right now. Um, so there'll be updates on
the project as it progresses. Um, I did reinstall that problem back into the device, the device still works,
so that didn't damage or anything was in the process. And, uh, so that's where I'm at, uh, beginning
of something new, some more learning, and hopefully some more HPR episodes. So thanks for listening.
This is Brian and Ohio signing off, and I just want to remind everybody, the best way to make a
fire with two sticks is to make sure one of them is a match. Goodbye.
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