hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr2555.txt

Episode: 2555
Title: HPR2555: 2017-2018 New Years Eve show part 6
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2555/hpr2555.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 05:40:14

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This is HPR episode 2555 entitled HPR 2017 New Year's Eve Show Part 6.
It is hosted by Maria Stokes and in about 1932 minutes long and Karina next visit flag.
The summary is Part 6 on the 6th annual HPR New Year show.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by archive.org.
Support universal access to all knowledge by heading over to archive.org forward slash donate.
What would you like to talk about?
I have a Linux topic I'm delaying on putting up a Ubuntu server.
I'm just wondering how much room the new snap base or stuff will take up compared to the traditional deviant.debs.
The server I've got is an old single core 64 bit.
The snap stuff I think it's not sure quite.
I think the snap is generally small and loud and then there used to be.
I'm not having some sort of show on that one there.
It's only got two gigs of memory and I was wondering whether I should stay with the deviant.
A straight deviant based or get ready for 18 or four.
You wouldn't, well, I don't find early server 18.0 for development.
I don't know if you're going to buy an actual server actually.
Otherwise, just deviant or Ubuntu.
I guess it doesn't really matter that much from which kind of server is it?
Well, it will be a utility server.
Just just the first machine that I got largely a hacking team.
It's my first 64 bit hacking machine.
Right.
I'll see 18.0 for it's not out yet in the final release.
I don't put in that development mode.
That's what I meant.
I don't even need one server myself like that.
But I think generally it doesn't matter that much.
You have to just make a choice.
That's something else here.
Has a comment on that one.
You said it was a 64 bit single core machine.
AMD 2050.
I guess I don't know much about the AMD processors.
The two gigabytes is kind of lean for anything with a GUI.
But if you're looking at it just a server,
two gigabytes will do pretty much any of the Linux distros that I've used.
Yeah, I was just wondering whether or whether to go with a devian base like the Sparky that I use currently.
Or go with something that's.
I know that they're going to be pushing flat packs and snaps and like like that on the.
On 1804.
Yeah, but the thing is with this, you know,
the snap snaps and flat packs laugh.
I mean, yeah,
it's supposed to make packing packages.
Packages easier.
More of fighter software.
Of course, I want to just get into a snap or flat pack.
But, you know, is it really needed?
And it probably isn't really been yet.
Comic all decided to snappy and loans on flat pack.
And, you know, is it really needed?
And for what you you're doing as well.
Well, that's why I have some 16 gig 64 multi cores.
And I would just do.
I'm going to on that when I need the Ubuntu stuff.
Just some stuff I need the PPA base.
And I have some trouble putting Ubuntu devs PPAs into devian basic dev system.
What is it you're doing that you're having trouble with?
Well, I just find it easier to put PPAs on under a full of butto machine.
I mean, from butto system.
That's and this was going to be a utility machine.
But I may separate out the basic server function with with some lightweight linings like like any of my.
Sparkies and then go with a secondary setup on one of my larger machines.
So that I can use a more full configured Ubuntu.
Hi, clacky here celebrating New Year's morning in Hong Kong or lunchtime at this point.
Snappy packages, how do they work?
I have the impression that they're more coarse grained than normal packages so that you might have redundancy both on disk and in RAM between two packages that have a share dependency.
Is that right?
Hello, clacky. I'll come and hug you day for a while.
Come on. Do you want to hug me?
I'm sorry.
No, yeah, I could be a hug that I have a non-sum had a svenskank new thing.
But I mean, not as much of me as I am.
Yeah, we.
Actually, the.
The idea to go back to the early days of Linux.
The packages are basically statically linked to binaries.
Yeah, so that would mean the same bytes, which would normally belong to shared library would end up several times occupying RAM.
Yeah, not very good for a small memory machine and two gigs of small memory these days.
Yeah, up to me, you don't.
It wouldn't make sense to load the packages that essentially bring in an entire environment when I would go with the just the application directly.
If you're running a Debian machine, you bring in a Debian package just for that application.
And then you're not going to have any problem with the two gigabyte memory.
Well, I do want to have the option of, you know, I would probably make it into another of my XFCE Sparky Linux, which Sparky is great.
And it should perform adequately for anything I want to do.
Well, you can always try it and see if it performs to your expectations or requirements.
Yeah, I think that's what I'm going to do.
Also, I have room on my other machines to eventually put a regular and Ubuntu.
Sometimes it's nice to have the capability of booting.
Ubuntu on systems because, you know, you have the PPAs and whatnot.
Okay, I thought you were talking about a server at first. Are you talking about a desktop?
I'm talking about a server. However, because I'm a refugee from Windows, I would like the option of having running a desktop.
At least the lightweight desktop.
Okay, a refugee, huh? All right.
I think it's, I require a desktop with a GUI all the time.
And there are servers that do some things for us.
But you have to have a GUI and whether you're a refugee from Windows or not.
Well, I'm just saying that I'm not, I don't trust myself with a purely command line system.
Now, eventually, I probably will run my desktop over XGO or something or VNC or networked,
wayland or what have you when they get that worked out.
I just figure that at my level of knowledge, having the ability to run a web browser,
a graphical web browser for troubleshooting or what have you on the box.
It's a home system, so it's not exactly going to be loaded on anything special.
And again, it's a hacking machine.
Okay, I get a better picture of it now. Thank you.
I would load 16.04, but it's going out of sport.
So I might as if I'm going to start with a new installation.
I might start with something that's easier to keep up.
Anyway, 16.04 has gone to 2021, really.
Also, if it's a Sparky machine, it runs the same stuff that my main desktop's run.
The Ubuntu side is strictly a secondary phone.
I'm relatively new with Linux the last couple of years.
And I try not to have to try to learn too many different things.
And so I go to install a server to do something.
And it looks like the best option is freeBSD on something.
And then Ubuntu, I mean, Debbie and on something else.
But I'm running Ubuntu on my desktop.
And I'm looking really, really, really hard to find a way to make everything Ubuntu.
So I don't have to learn too much stuff.
I think, I mean, BSD, yeah, I mean, that can be good for servers as well.
But the same, most servers are running Linux now, right?
Well, I was looking at a firewall that was free BSD.
There's a built-in Linux firewall, I believe.
Say again.
There's a built-in Linux firewall, I believe.
Most distrares, you type them sort of firewall, turned on and built-in.
Well, that's top distrares.
So there's a bit of a bit different possibly.
Well, actually, I've just said I'm going to go to probably, what's it called?
Smoothwall.
Is that the thing it runs on Ubuntu?
No, they think so.
But yeah, there'll be a few options.
Lucky way you have.
Yeah.
We're having a bit of Hong Kong.
Hong Kong is a bit colder this year than it was last year, 24 hours ago.
We had several days of degrees Celsius, and today it's looking more like 15 degrees.
My favorite debt to do.
Wow.
It's just weather.
You never know what it's going to do.
Responsible somewhere around there, isn't it?
Hong Kong has winter right now.
Oh, it's cool.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it's true.
We're still north of the equator.
I guess we could guess even colder that apparently.
It can get down to 10 Celsius here, some winters.
But most of the time it stays between 13 and 20.
Who is asking about Smoothwall?
Hong Kong.
Yeah.
Hong Kong Smoothwall is a distribution of what its own is made to be a firewall for an appliance device.
Kind of like PF cents, IP fire.
There's some others I can't think of right off the top of my head.
I mean, you can install it on any X86 hardware.
And it would pretty much just be for that purpose as it being a no the intrusion detection.
Like a router, basically.
Actually, I know what's the PF sense is.
That's what I had installed.
I had got an old, I called my brother and said, you got an old computer that you can give me.
And he said, let me go look at my attic.
And he, he mailed me a motherboard that had an old dual core Intel processor.
And I put a PF sense on it.
Of course, had BSS free BSD on it.
And, but it was too damn particular about Ethernet cards.
So, I messed with that.
I bought a card, I put it in.
I never, it never did.
It was just a pain in the butt.
And I didn't, everything, I had to go and find out what the difference was between the Ubuntu commands
and the, the, the, the, the Unix commands.
And I just said, I got to figure a different way to do this.
And ultimately, I said, I really could afford a hundred bucks to buy a new, a new motherboard.
So, I went, I went to a micro center.
I told them, I need a motherboard and processor for a hundred bucks.
And they did it for about a hundred and ten dollars.
And so, I got me a new box.
And that's why I'm building my, my, my firewall router on.
And it's going to be, so I'm thinking Ubuntu and Smoothwall.
You're, now you're missing the point.
Smoothwall is its own distribution.
You install it like Ubuntu.
You don't install it on top of Ubuntu.
I understand, but when you install it, it's Ubuntu, right?
Okay.
I don't know what the base OS that's based on.
I have, I've used it in, in the past, like, and you never once you install it,
you never really cared because it's all gooey based.
Once you get it installed, you configure everything through a web interface.
So it doesn't really matter, I mean, what the base is.
I'm an old server administrator.
I'm always concerned about what is underneath the application.
And I need to know how to configure it and what it's doing and things like that.
Also, because, while the motherboard and my brother gave me was an old dual core,
he's a crap that would barely run the router.
When I went out and bought a processor and motherboard,
it turned out to be an eight core AMD processor that had clean room for some other stuff.
So I thought, I've got to do something else with this.
So I decided to add some other stuff to it.
So then I really need to know what the underlying app OS is.
I think, at least with Linux, that the base doesn't matter as much anymore.
It's just package management systems and things like this be like a desktop all the server really.
But, so I think yet that being an all-bound, it will whatever I think,
it'll be mostly okay with any of those really.
I agree that any of them will work, but I'm new to this.
And I'm really trying to not have to learn all the different versions of Linux.
Although Ubuntu, I believe, apparently has most of the servers now,
although I suppose some people say Tablin has a large amount actually, but there you go.
Oh, and of course it's better to have all the rest of it.
Yeah, it seems like that you've got to go with FreeBSD to get the best router firewall.
And so that's what I was going to do, and I did.
And then it was really difficult to add in additional drivers for the network card you had.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, I mean, I only use BST, but I do know enough about to know that actually,
because it's basically in a Windows, Mac, Linux, and then BST,
because there's a fourth one, that means that a lot of these drivers and things,
I mean, a lot of stuff built into Linux kernel anyway for hardware support.
And you get a few wireless drivers and things that aren't graphics cards.
And so in the case of BST, there's a lot of hardware support lacking really,
and things like that, as far as I know anyway.
Oh, that's exactly what I found.
Even Flash, I mean, that's a pleasant change.
I mean, you can have like a Linux capacity layer for Flash, but it's the desktop,
but you know, things like that as well, really.
I'm trying to be smart with this, and understand the server does its job.
I mean, I spent many years as a server administrator,
servers have a different role, and they can run different applications,
and they can even have different versions than the desktops.
But I just had problems with that one, so I decided to abandon that and go with something else.
And then I end up with a Debian Jesse, which is not quite a Ubuntu,
but more of the Ubuntu commands do work.
That's because Ubuntu is based on that from Debian.
And I would rethink Smoothwall, because it hasn't been updated since June of 2013.
I would look at PFSense or something else.
You got anything else that runs on Ubuntu?
It doesn't matter on this firewall device.
I'm trying to get at you.
You're way over complicating this.
You can actually build your own firewall from Ubuntu,
but would you trust yourself to do something that some experts
who've already custom-tailored a distro to be a firewall?
Actually, I like PFSense a lot.
Once you installed it, the webinar face was really, really good.
I mean, it has absolutely everything you need.
No problem configuring it.
I just didn't have any problem with it at all,
except that I wanted to use the box for some other stuff as well,
and that's where I ran into the problems.
I would highly not recommend using your firewall as a server,
because that's, I mean, that's like a direct...
I mean, you've got that right at the edge of your network,
and you're using it.
You want to use that as a server, also?
Actually, I'll take it back.
I forgot.
The problem I had with it was the network cards.
The built-in network card...
I went out and bought some network cards.
I ended up with trying several network cards,
and I found what was supposed to be a driver that would work
with FreeBSD, and trying to add it in
was using everything I could find on the internet
for how do you add a network,
a card for an ethernet...
I mean, a driver for an ethernet card,
and I never did get one I'm working.
I'm sure if you would look...
I'm sure you can Google for a hardware compatibility list
for PF scents.
I've ran PF scents.
I have a little mini ITX box.
It's got an atom processor with two giga-ram,
and it's got dual real-tech necks on it,
and PF scents has worked on it.
Smooth wall.
Right now, I'm running a distro called IP fire.
There's another one that's...
I can reloading my mind, but it's devian-based untangle.
There's another one that is devian-based at the core,
but these ones I'm mentioning are,
like I say, they're pretty set up to be a firewall,
and you really don't even have to get to the command line
to do anything with them if you don't want to.
So install, and once you boot it up,
you get to the web GUI of it.
I think I've heard of PF scents as well,
and they don't really do servers like this,
but I guess, you know, try and use what's...
I'll say shift to the new to this.
I guess try and use what's kind of popular.
So, yeah, buggy server, or possibly devian,
although devian might be a bit more...
over the thought, a little bit more complicated,
in certain ways, possibly, because it's more...
because of how devians like,
but it's bugs who are based on devians,
so there's a lot of similarities as well.
And, yeah.
I agree that there's...
PF scents, I found, to be a really excellent firewall,
had everything I wanted in the web interface,
everything I needed, and much more.
But when, as far...
I was trying to put it on an old hardware,
and, you know, I wasn't going to go out
and look for a hardware list,
and go purchase a piece of hardware.
I think it would work on it.
I was trying to make it work on some old hardware,
and then I got some network card,
and, ah, it's real tech,
and there's a driver for it
that was supposed to work on free BSD,
and here's how you install it,
and I never got it to work.
Now, I'm not...
I'm pretty new to Linux,
but I spent the last, you know,
spent 25 years or so working as a server administrator.
Actually, I guess if you add in my Vax and VMS days,
I'm closer to 30 years,
as a...
I can figure out computer stuff.
I never got that network card working,
and I'm trying to get three network cards working
so I can have a DMZ,
an external, and an internal card.
So, that's why I'm trying to get working,
and I wasn't able to do it on the old piece of hardware,
so when I got a new piece of hardware,
I thought, let me get something else,
I'm done with this.
I really haven't tried running the PSense on the new hardware.
Who knows, it might actually work.
It says right on the PSense website
that your best bet is to use Intel-based Nix
for the best compatibility and performance.
I know that.
One of the things about the newer
or the next generation's PSense
is it's going to require hardware encryption instructions
unless they've changed their mind.
The instructions are going to be encrypted?
No, Intel has a...
If you go above the Adam processor
or two latest processors,
they have instructions that aid encryption
just like they do for floating point or what have you.
They are not using...
They are not using software to do the encryption.
They're using software with special instructions
to harden the encryption.
I may have to go to Openwall,
which is a new fork of PSense
because the PSense people are going to have...
are going to drop compatibility for ordinary processors
or processors that do not have the encryption instructions in them.
Yeah, I have to sing that.
Well, PSense was purchased by a commercial entity
and the commercial entity has decided to make things easier for themselves
and the hardware that they sell by going to...
by eliminating the ability for people to install PSense
on older generations of hardware
that doesn't have the Intel's encryption instructions.
IP fires a very nice firewall distro
to have never heard anything from them about this encryption thing.
Well, again, it was purchased by a business
and they're trying to lower their support costs
and they're getting less community-based
more just like a lot of the input to stuff.
They're slimming things down to
so that it supports their business
and does not support so much of the community.
I believe I even tried the open...
I tried the open-sense distribution
when it first came out
and I didn't quite care for it
because it wasn't as fine-tuned as yet.
So I might give that a go again sometime.
Also, again, we're talking about
all of these applications
unless you want to virtualize your firewall
which is not recommended practice
are designed for a little box well
for some versions of little
that just does the firewall
does higher-level routing and stuff
but it is what it is.
It is a black box
that you could have in a closet
somewhere with no screen, no keyboard
and you just talk to it
through a magic web address.
Can you hear me now?
Stand good.
Okay, well, I switched headsets
and workstations.
I guess this finally works.
Did you do any work on your lips?
What do you mean?
Actually, I thought some of that
might have just been
a problem with the flappy lips
or something.
Not to my knowledge.
Okay, probably wasn't that at all.
It's probably hardware.
On that firewall thing,
talking about not using your firewall
as a server,
what I was considering was using
the primary function of the server
as the router firewall
and also running of VM
and letting the VM
be a NAS.
I couldn't find anything
on the internet that said
I couldn't completely separate that
and make that safe
so that was kind of
where I was headed.
Well, I'm not no
paid professional or certified
in any type of networking
but it's just my belief
that a firewall router
is an appliance.
Treat it like an appliance
as a single-purpose device.
That's what I would recommend.
I wouldn't want to attach
anything sensitive
directly to it
and make it do anything else
that could
accidentally get exposed
to the internet.
When I was a professional
and someone else was buying
a software, I would agree
with you.
But right now,
I'm trying to be cheap
and it's for the
home and I'm not protecting
lots and lots of
really important stuff.
Well, you'll find
that there's more support
for virtualizing the router
than there is for virtualizing
the
NAS on top of the router.
I would agree there
because, like I say,
these
firewall distributions
are not what they're meant to do
to be they don't have
the hypervisor's built
in them, which I'm sure
if you knew what you were doing
and you can get to the command line
of it, you could probably install one
if you'd like.
But when you, that's just not
what they're meant to do.
And in the case of
PFSense, I know that
it has a
BirdIO
network card support.
BirdIO
is a higher level connection
instead of fully
emulating hardware.
It hands the bites off
to the
underlying operating systems
networking stack.
Sorry, I didn't quite understand that.
There is an
IO standard where
instead of emulating
an Intel
1000 card or what have you
at the big banging level,
it just hands the bites off
to the
to a virtual driver built
into your
supporting system.
If you virtualize
the router,
you'll have
VIRT-1, VIRT-2, VIRT-3,
NYX.
And those NYX
will be connected
by your operating system
to physical NYX.
And the operating system has
the drivers for the NYX.
And you don't have to worry
about the virtual system
having to fake the NYX
at a bit banging level.
Okay, I think I understand that.
It was my intention that
any NIC would be
dedicated to
its specific function.
And that way,
there wouldn't be any
problem with any
crossing between
any way to
for something on the outside
loop to basically get it
on the inside network.
I mean, if you really wanted
to learn the ins and outs
of
all devians
sent us or
boom to whatever
and build one yourself
if you really wanted to get
down to the nuts and bolts of it.
Well, I've actually
built more than one.
I'm an old windows
server administrator.
I've built hundreds of
servers and I've
worked with the network
administrators
for troubleshooting problems
and stuff like that.
So I know how
networks work with the servers
but I'm not a network
expert.
So I've never done the
actual work,
the day-to-day work of
the routers.
And that's the part that
while I'm not totally
ignorant of it, I'm not
anywhere near an expert.
I don't really
really agree.
And that's why I rely on other people
to build a distro for me.
Always farted
building a distro, yeah,
not even thinking about that.
No, I mean,
I wouldn't attempt to install a
base Linux install
and then create my own
firewall, which can be done
if you want, like I say,
if you want to get down and learn
with and actually
build your own PSense
box from Linux, if you
wanted to.
Well, I've built a PSense box
and also a
smooth wall box.
And both of them are
fine as far as they go.
The PSense is
excellent.
The smooth wall seems
to have everything too.
It is much of
actually not a lot at all,
but I've got that installed
right now on a box
and I've messed with a little bit
and it seems to have everything
I'm going to need.
I did notice that it had
not been updated in a while,
but I don't know
that it's been abandoned.
No, I know they offer
a purchased
solution for, you know,
versus the free version.
I'm looking
on our smooth wall website
here right now on
because I know that was
on a network admin at a
K-12 school system
and we were looking at different
solutions for web filtering
and they do offer
smooth wall offers, you know,
enterprise class solutions
for business or education.
I just don't know if they're
home version. They used to call it
smooth wall express, which is
what I've seen that look
like 2013 was the last time
our release was
released for it.
It's been about a month since I
installed it and I really haven't
looked at it in a couple of weeks.
It's been with a holidays
and all this going on.
I haven't messed with it.
Was it the express version?
I don't actually know.
Well, it was free.
So I imagine, yeah, I imagine that's what you got.
That was probably the same version I ran
back years ago.
Like I said, looking
on that website at the
last time something was added to it
was 2013.
I mean, still
it looks complete as far as having
what you need to do
the job. I'm
going, I haven't tried
installing PF
since to the my new server
that I bought
and I may be pleasantly
surprised and find out
it worked really well on that
and I just
forget about messing with
something else.
But it was one thing
about Windows.
You know, us
now that I'm one of
the Linux people, I can say
that.
Over 25 years, I've
learned every version of
Windows server and desktop.
They come out with a new
version. Well, it's just one
version. There's not 50
different distros.
It's just one.
And you learn it.
They move stuff around.
Each new release, they
hide a few of the
configuration things
so that you have to go
look for them.
But basically, it's still
Windows and you
learn the new version and
you don't have the option
but to do that.
And so I would learn the new version
and you continue and we upgrade
our systems and we keep going.
And I did that for many years.
And with Linux,
there's so many different
things that I really was trying to
stick to one.
I was trying to add
since I'm using Ubuntu on my
desktop and I'm trying to get
better with some of the
command line things.
I really didn't want to
when I got the
I loaded PSSense and
that stuff is really different.
It's not a lot different
but it's enough different
that the Ubuntu stuff does
because that's BSD based.
You know.
Also, it sounds like
as somebody who has setup
PSSense,
you may have been doing stuff
with the command line that they want you to do
with the web interface and
through the administration console.
No, all the firewall stuff I was doing
at the web
thing. What I was doing was
attempting the only thing I was trying to do
at the command line was to get
some additional network cards
working.
I had a box that I wanted to have
three network cards,
network interfaces on,
and I had one,
and that made it
so that
when you add one
and it doesn't recognize it,
any additional drivers
have to be loaded on the command line
and that was where
I had to go digging
and I was
found what
a website that purported
to be doing that,
and I found everything I needed,
except it didn't work.
Well, yes, because you were doing stuff
for free BSD,
which would be a server-based system.
Did you try
enabling optional
network cards
in the
GUI, there is a way
to enable optional
network cards, and
unless you enable the optional network cards,
the system won't see them.
You mean besides
adding it at the
on the
there wasn't a driver
for the particular
card I had, you know, like I
had a
505 card, but they had a driver
for a 504 and
504 work fine, but the 505
didn't.
And so I found the driver
and I'm installing it
and it says it installed,
but for some reason it didn't work.
You say that maybe there's a place
where I go in the
web until
to now recognize that?
Well, first, you should
because there are
a couple of problems.
One, the best way
to run the kind of thing
that you're talking about
is to get one
of the, or even
perhaps your work has
retired some Intel
network, multi-port
network cards that you can plug in
and P.O. sense will recognize
every port.
I realized that
that may well be what I will
end up doing
and if I do, I will get a
multi-port
card so that just one card
will do it.
I really was trying to do it
with what I had
and I attempts to find
an Intel card
locally and wasn't able
to find it.
So I went with what I had.
Did you see that
Lankap posted in a chat
for the P.O. sense
compatibility list?
Oh, I didn't go look for that.
I understand that there is such a list
and I know that I wasn't using it.
So you should
be able from the command line
or from an
Alumpster, there's a GUI
way to do this too.
But you should be able to
use some commands
to find out what
your current
next hardware are.
And then
then you should be able to look for them in that list
to see if they are compatible
or distribution
or wanting to use.
No, I knew for a fact
that the ones I had
were not
well, they were on the list
or they would have been seen
when I installed it.
It would have said,
oh, look, look at these cards.
Instead, it's all one.
Instead of three.
And when I went look,
I did find the driver
and what it said you could do
to install the drivers.
But after doing that,
the PSN still didn't recognize it.
So
a rather freeBSD
still didn't recognize why I rebooted
the system.
The system didn't recognize it.
Even the OS.
You're not running freeBSD.
What do you mean I'm not running freeBSD?
You're not running freeBSD
as a server or desktop.
You're running something
that uses the freeBSD kernel
with customized elements
that are not designed
to be plugged into
as a normal freeBSD.
It is a basically
it is a pre-cooked
router distribution
with all the drivers
that it wants to know about
built-in.
Oh, you're saying I don't have
the full freeBSD server.
So it doesn't have
the ability for me to add
additional
things.
The new generations
will come out with new drivers.
But this is not like
you were building a freeBSD server
and dropping the same cards
into it and then had to load a driver
from somewhere.
What you have to do
is it's more like
a basic windows install
where you get a
windows compatible
device, whatever it is,
a network card, video card,
whatever, and it drops in there
and it will announce to you
yay! I've seen
you know a
LAN card of this kind
Intel
Broadcom.
You may be running into
real-tech problems
or whatever.
But you need to get a
pretty mainstream vanilla
black box
and that's why they want to go
Intel because Intel
is sort of the standard.
It's like
a small block Chevy
everybody's got parts for it
everybody knows how to fix it.
The box was
like an Intel
Core 2 Duo
something or other.
So that was normal
straightforward.
The add-on cards
that I was trying to put in
it were real tech.
You know I had thought
about the OS being stripped
down but of course
I actually knew about that.
I knew that
when they build security systems
Linux they strip out
the parts
everything is not needed to make it
safer.
Also,
if you want to use the power
of your new
eight-core machine
what you need to think about
is finding cards
that will drop into your old hardware
and using the new machine
with its new power
for the full-powered
Ubuntu
with larger memory, larger
disk,
better video
than your dual-core machine
everything like that.
Once you have, if you have Intel
Nix, a lot of the processing
is handled by the network
or can be off-loaded
onto the network card themselves
that's how come you have all
those lectures on the
in the web interface
the reason
that real techniques
are cheap is that they require
your main processor
to do a lot of the things
that Intel Nix do
in their own internal microcode
and their internal microprocessors
and their own memory buffers
and everything like that.
Real techniques
are very stripped down
they're very
and because they are
trying to say junk
close to it
I wouldn't go too far
New Year to central time
U.S.
Oh my goodness, that's me
Well, I mean, as far as
not necessarily
junk but
this is like
a
Intel stuff is like
like a one-time truck
and the other stuff
is like a mini pickup
or a mini event
Yeah, we can stop here
and say happy New Year.
The fireworks are starting
to pop around my neighborhood
Well, in regards to
there being too many choices
for the
new Linux servers
and stuff, they all use
the same underlying tools
virtually.
I'm pretty sure they're all
using IP tables on the
underlying and there's different
front ends for it.
I think devians got a
UFW, it's called
some firewall something.
Glad to spoke of
firewall DE on CentOS.
But if you want to get into
the command line of the
underlying firewall,
I know
I learned
15 years ago and I haven't
learned anything else since.
The
I really have been trying
to be lazy on this
and trying to
make the box do
multiple things.
It's more big.
If I had
a absolute
requirement,
I was working for someone
else and they were
paying the freight and I was
telling them what to buy
like I used to do when I was
working.
I'm retired.
I would say you need this
and this and this and this
and we're going to use this as
your router and this is your
server and this runs such and such
and I would separate those
things out and things that
will be separate.
But now that I'm at home
and it's not that big a deal,
I've got my
I mean I'm currently using
my routers or just the
you know the
off-the-shelf routers that
everybody buys
and I'm going to replace
that with a
real machine
and the
way to go.
And so I found out that
I start thinking about
I'm looking at what else can
I make this thing do?
And that's where I got
into trouble.
As another person
on a limited income,
what you may need to do
is think about going to
new egg or
fries or whatever your
favorite discount supplier
or maybe an online
supplier and
figuring out how many
slots you have free
in your older desktop,
older machine
and just stuff
either
whatever you can afford,
maybe dual port cards,
whatever or multi port.
The whole idea is
put the router in the old box
or in a
server and
use your new box
for that
big
multiple server,
multiple learning,
multiple whatever experience.
Well actually since I
found out, figured out that
I was tired of messing
with the dual core thing
my brother gave me
and went out and bought
the eight core
thing.
That's my new box.
So it's not
stripped down or anything.
It's actually bought
a case for it.
It has a new
during the
pre-Christmas
sales I got a
really nice
mother, I mean
a power supply for $19
and I had some
I had eight gigs of
memory left over
from the last
upgrade I did on my desktop
system.
So it's got eight gigs of
RAM so it's not suffering
there at all. So I actually
have a really nice box
for my
whatever I wanted to do with it.
And that's why I started
thinking, wait a minute,
this is not just a router.
Yeah, the
firewall device does
not need
near that much horsepower
every way over
bought for that.
Well, I went to
I went to
microcenter and I said
I need a mother board
and processor that will work
with
DDR3 memory
because that's what I had.
I know that pretty much
everything you buy now is
DDR4 and he had an old
motherboard.
He had like one open
box motherboard that would
still work and only one
version of the
processor he had.
He had stacks of them but
he only had one
and it was an eight core
AMD processor that
would work on that motherboard.
So I ended up buying and
the whole thing was just
barely over 100 bucks.
So that wasn't a bad deal
to get a pretty decent box
for 100 bucks
considering I had the memory to put in it.
So now I've got
so as soon as I got that
I was thinking wait a minute.
I only wanted a dual core
box because
I just wanted a router.
But now I've got eight cores.
So let's make this box do.
The general consensus is
that that's a good idea.
Use all that
horsepower
to
do whatever else.
Max out the ram,
whatever you want to do.
But this,
that machine as it sits
is too much power
for a dedicated router.
We're talking about how to build
a laser civilian
your off-the-shelf unit
and use that box
as your
as basically your central
I want to do
anything I want to do.
What do you think about
sending us box up as a VMware server
and
having
running
the
everything as a VM,
can you do that?
The my
external router as a VM
as well as
anything else I want to do with the box.
That is a possibility.
That's what we're talking about.
And you wouldn't necessarily
have to go to VMware
there's something
there's a lot of VM
capable stuff
which would allow you to put the
P.O. sense
inside
there's something called
Proxmox
which is
designed for this kind of application.
Well,
I said VMware specifically
because
I've used VMware for many years
and
I have
had a VM box
at home for a long time.
I don't have one right now but
I know how it is something
I know how to do really well.
I have tried
some of the
Linux
running VM
I've run
I've tried a couple of the other
VM things and they don't seem
as complete.
Well, that's what
I recommend Proxmox.
It's designed to support VMs.
Is it a
bare metal
hypervisor?
Correct.
And it's based on deviance.
I'll look at that.
That's one I haven't tried.
Also, they have
a rather inexpensive
subscription to keep
your core updated.
Inexpensive. VMware is free.
You can get the free version
but it does an update
to get access to their
security fixes and stuff.
You have to get a
subscription.
Okay.
I've got the most
experience of course with VMware
because I was using that
when I was working
and we had a commercial
license for
it.
When I always had a
version at home but
in the
some years ago,
they VMware
allowed you to have
they had some limitations on it
but you can install it for free
for non-commercial use.
And that's what I had at home.
And I think they removed most
of those restrictions
except for using it
mostly.
Other VMs I tried
is just to play with them
and found out that
they didn't really stand up
to VMware which of course
has been a business for a lot
longer than most of the others.
Well, we've probably beaten
this one today. I think
anybody else cut
anything they're working on?
Yes, this is the
new box.
The
six
lightning
I had a little box
with
an extra power supply
and
a large
separate
a couple of
stacks.
The way
you know
that's
power supply.
Finally, one
role partner for
tonight on Google.
While
Mars supply is
rated for the
amps, all ones on Google
are going to have
at least
domestically. I'm
going to find one ebay.
50-year audio is
a
long time ago, I just
pasted a
link to a
little
many ITX board that would be
perfect for a
firewall box.
I'll take a look at that.
The board is $90
that doesn't include the
CPU or RAM.
So you're
50 by the time you get it
completely configured.
Then you have to buy a
case for it.
That's what you're looking
for. Something small
and many like that.
With two
necks, it's got
two Intel necks.
I've only got
$150
in my eight core box.
Well, that's because
$20 Intel necks for your
dual-core box and had a
firewall.
So you spent, you could
have spent $20 and had one
up and running on that
dual-core. And I've been
plenty of machines
of run-pf-sense.
And if we are just being
completely honest, that's
probably what I'm going
in doing anyway.
How much RAM with the
dual-core system has
got eight gigs of RAM
in it. The dual-core
box has four.
So I could go back to the
the dual-core system
with the four gigs of RAM
and put a
nice
Intel
dual
nick
adapter in it.
And it would work just
well.
I have to buy
off online. I don't
buy anything online pretty
much. And what I'm
going to do with this
computer here. You know
what I can do with an
eight-core
eight-gigabyte system?
Well, if you're wanting to play around
VMs with the free version of
VMware or some other hypervisor,
I would load
at least, I mean,
eight is a good starting point
for running some
Linux VMs. You know, you
don't, depending on what you're
wanting to do. My previous
server, home server, I'm
quoting server, air quotes
around server. It was just a
PC. But it was a
quad-core AMD
with eight-gigabyte RAM
and I ran
a couple virtual box
with it until
upgraded to an actual
server-grade motherboard.
So, I mean, you can
just depends on how many
VMs you're going to do and
what you're planning on doing with it.
Yeah, I've got
another box over here that's
an Intel i7. It's a
second
generation. It's pretty old, but
it's not significantly
slower than anything
that's produced today, I
don't think. This got
16 gigs of RAM and that
was my
VM box. And I used to have
up to
six or so
VMs at one time on it.
Windows and Linux
and
it
performed very well.
That's not what I was
building when I built this
just end up being
it's just that it
turned out to be
once I got that
processor that they had,
it was like, oh, now
I've got to do something else.
So, I'm looking on new egg
site and a dual port
Intel
NIC card as you can get one
from anywhere from 40 to
50 dollars.
And that's probably what I'll
do.
It was like, okay, I'm
going to not do that and I end
up with a complete
another box.
And
I'm thinking I'm going to build
a NAS out of it.
And this box is going to be
end up being a NAS. I'm pretty
sure where there's got a
firewall built into it or
not. I'm not sure yet.
Well, there again,
the two, but
that new box,
you could, okay, just for
instance, my home server
is running a
meth TV. It's running SSH
server. It's running.
I've got a
ZFS
for, you know,
four drive ZFS
raid attached to it.
It does
everything. I mean, it serves
home. It does everything.
So one box
can do a whole lot of different
things, you know.
And that's running two or
three VMs. One
VM runs all the time.
I've start the other two up
when needed.
So you can, I mean, you can
take a Linux and do a whole lot of
things on one box.
Okay. How's that different
thing?
Well, if you're, you've talked,
you said that it would be okay
to run the firewall
in a VM.
And it's okay to run as a
VM. Could they be on the same
box?
Yeah. You could, you could
virtualize your router if you'd
want to. I've never done it.
But it's becoming, you know,
with the way everything is being
virtualized nowadays.
But I think P.F. Sense
even has an image for a virtual,
you know, a virtualized
image you can download
if I remember correctly.
Oh, I had noticed that.
That's...
I actually wasn't planning
to do that. It was...
That's... I was thinking,
that's the box.
That's the hardware.
And I would use...
then I would virtualize
the... the NAS.
Well, I'm...
I... I consider my home server
a NAS. But the base OS
it's running right now.
And the only reason I'm running a
graphical interface, it's
Zubuntu 1604. So it's the...
it's a Ubuntu with the
XFC... their XFCE
spin. The only reason I am
running a graphical
interface on that box right now
is because of MythTV.
It's a...
you can't run that
without a desktop
environment. So...
So that's the only reason
why I'm running a graphical
operating system on that box right now.
And it's just using
the...
the attached ZFS
raid. I'm sharing that out
with Samba
and NFS
on the home network. So basically
it's a NAS but it's also
doing virtualization
and recording TV
and
running
some VMs that I need.
90... 90%
of the time I
SSH into it. I never even
give out to the grids out in my garage.
I never even go out and
you know...
interface with the
desktop environment.
Actually, I had that
backwards. The...
I was thinking of the NAS
as being the... the box
because I didn't want to...
the...
the...
if you virtualize
a NAS, then the hard...
the hard drives are
set up as like a single...
a single file in this...
the whole hard drive, which is
easy for as far as I'm concerned.
I can't think of how that makes
any sense at all. And so
I was going to say
build a NAS and use
it...
hang a virtual server
off of it. So
that's why I was really thinking
your setup sounds pretty good
though as far as
your NAS goes. And I've
done it by sticking the garage.
It's just hot.
Well,
the...
mic garage is
divided up and from the main
two-car garage to a third car that's
divided by a wall. And I actually have
heating and cooling
from the house ran out there too
it. That's my man cave. Basically
it's where it's located. So...
and it does get
up into this... you know, it gets up
to close to 80 degrees and they're
even with a air conditioning right
out there to it.
Oh, the man cave.
You mean like the TV... the beer
commercial? Oh yeah, it's not
that pretty. It's just... it's a garage.
And I got a workbench and some
shelving. And I do
computer repair on the side. So that's where
I work on computers and
doing my honeydew projects and stuff like that.
Well, if I did honeydew
projects, that's where I would do them too.
Yeah, as long as... as long as
history is reasonably cool, that's
okay for...
We have a three bedroom house and it's just me and my wife.
So we have a room... what
the builder called a bedroom is... is what we call
the the computer room. And it's my room
with my computers and
three desk... three computers.
And things like that that
satisfy my requirements for
computer stuff in my retirement years.
For the garage, I want to build a boat.
So any virtualized machine is basically
a file. It's... but if you're...
and I'm not... I don't know. I'm assuming... I believe you could...
I don't know if you could attach your
storage to a VM. That would be practical
or in how the performance would work.
But NAS just stands for network
attached storage. And like say, I just use a
network to do with a lot of storage
attached to it. And so that's a network
attached. It's a NAS. It doesn't... I mean,
it's nothing special. Now some of these
pre-made NAS distros like a free NAS.
So if you install that on the
bare metal, it kind of becomes an
other thing with free NAS. You can actually
virtualize stuff and there's plugins and stuff you can do.
But then you're limited, I think.
That's what I don't like. I like to build the base
from a Linux distro that I'm comfortable with.
And add all the services that I want it to serve
myself. Then plus if I'm out in this garage, it does have a monitor
attached to it. And if I need to look something up, well I'm working on something
I can jump on it and Firefox and
do some web browsing. I agree with you
on that completely. As far as the
hard drive go in a virtual
computer, the virtual hard drive
is a file. The VMware will break that down
and it will save
divide out the hard where the
say you give it 40 gigabytes of storage. It will break that down.
And I think it breaks into two gigabytes
of pieces. But
you see a 40 gigabyte hard drive and it is
22 gigabyte files.
Then that it's the VMware's
version of a file system.
And it's not at all
ZFS or anything like that.
So you don't get to choose your file system.
In your you mentioned ZFS and
for your system. That's why I was thinking that
the NAS would be the the box.
And the hardware would have
be running the file system.
And then any virtual
systems that don't work, there's no major
disk storage requirement would hang off of that.
And that might include say the router.
The question is how do we know
how do we know? Oh,
I guess we know because of the massive
ways I'm experiencing it because you're going through there.
How do I turn that off?
Mongo here's what I would suggest. On that new box
I would install whatever operating system you're familiar with.
If you need the GUI desktop on it,
go ahead and do that. And then just download and install
virtual box. If you want to start playing around with virtualization,
it offers a quick and easy way to do
VM. That's what I use on my system. It's just running
virtual box. Well, my current
the way it's built right this
is with Ubuntu.
And
so I can build a NAS on it.
And using a Ubuntu
and I haven't got anything else on it right now.
Well, like I said, if you want to start playing around with virtualization,
just download the free version of virtual box. So I think it's even
available in the package manager.
And then you can just start playing around with virtual machines.
I've tried virtual box. Have you got any experience with KVM?
I tried it once. I got
kind of frustrated with it for the learning. I didn't take the time to learn it.
The next time I redo this box, I will probably
try it with a little bit more research upfront
and try to get away from virtual box.
I guess I like the idea of it because
it's closer to the hardware,
being kernel based.
But I haven't actually set it up at all.
I mean, they're all the same kind of
part. It's just getting to know the interface of it.
Like I said, I didn't do my research upfront and just jump in
and thinking how we could get my VMs back up and going real quickly.
And it didn't work out that way. So I just
jumped back on the virtual box because I knew it and it worked.
And so like I say, the next time I redo that box
from scratch, I will probably give KVM
a little bit better.
Yeah, go ahead.
I was just going to ask, what do you use on that box right now?
What's the purpose of that particular VM?
Well, the VM I'm running is currently serving
my next cloud server, a tiny RSS server
and I've got a
invoicing web application called
invoice plane that I do on my invoicing for my site business. So it's serving
up three, it's running three web
web based applications with Apache on it.
Regarding KVM, I've been using KVM
with Proxmox and with Vert Manager
and being working great. That was several years ago though.
Okay, I'm sorry. What do you say that you're
running on it? I didn't run anything specifically on it,
just some test VM or whatever, but it was very easy to handle
using Vert Manager in Ubuntu or Proxmox.
Okay, I've just
kind of made sense to me that KVM
would be something that would make sense.
I had tried VM box, I mean
the vertical. Vertual box.
Vertual box, sorry. I got a mixed up.
Vertual box and
I don't remember now what it was that I ran on it, but
it either didn't work or I just had some configuration problems with
the setup and it was something I had done
in VMware before and it was like,
oh wait a minute, this is a real pain in the butt.
Or it either didn't work at all and then
I was thinking, oh wait, this is so easy in VMware.
I probably didn't give V,
I just probably didn't give it a good test
in using VMware for so long, but I really am
attempting to go to open source
products and Linux and things like that.
But when you know something, you've got experience
with something and VMware is one of the things I've been using for a number of years.
And I've got likes of experience with it. Also
it's kind of like the the grandaddy of the
virtual machines and it's very mature.
Now on a desktop for laptop I've been using
VMware player and virtual box
and KVM in
Vertier and I don't think there's a big difference. I mean they do
the details are different. I think they basically do the same thing and they feel
similarly, subjectively snappy and
so but like you were saying, it feels good to use because
it's stream in the kernel. It's as little special stuff as possible.
But virtual box is free software too, so virtual box is not bad.
Yeah, I guess if
if what I'm doing right now was really important, I would have more
it'd be more important that I get it done in
in some particular time frame and that's kind of part of my problem.
Part of the problem when you're retired, you kind of work on things when you
you're in the mood and you think about it and you can
forget something for weeks at a time without it being a big deal.
And that's kind of where my router
nas project is right now.
So the virtualization you're talking about now,
is that your router project? You want to run that in the virtual
machine? He's considering it.
I was originally
had an old box that I was going to build just
a PSN router.
And I was frustrated by not being able to get
it done. I had
working and I decided to spend $100 and go buy some hardware
and so I bought a new box and it turned out that
it was a much more powerful server, so now wait a minute,
I've got a real piece of hardware here, I can make it do more.
So now I'm thinking well I had planned on doing a nas,
so now I can do the nas and the router
in the same box, how would I do that?
And that's kind of where I got stuck
if I had just gone out and purchased
a dual Nick adapter for the
original old piece of crap dual core
Intel box that my brother gave me.
I would have a PSN router and be happy
and not even be thinking about anything else.
Instead I've got a server here that is like
just sitting here is currently even powered off
and it's like I could
oh we can do all sorts of stuff
and I want to do the most with it not just
a you don't put a dedicated router
on an eight core processor.
Now I've been listening like one year
and see where all these threads are being tied together.
So the major reason you went out and bought that new box was
was that because of hardware supporting for EBSD?
Yeah it was kind of like I was frustrated
over not being able to get the free BSD
to support the nicks I had.
It was to buy the correct Intel based nicks
but I'm heart-hated or stupid
one of the other I don't want
I'd prefer nobody clear up which it is
and I went out and bought
a new motherboard and processor
and so now I have a completely
a very nice box that
can do all sorts of stuff.
So now it's like a shame to
also you wouldn't want to run as much
using much electricity as it
probably takes just
to be a router.
So I'm thinking oh this can be my NAS
because I really had plan to do a NAS
at some point and so
how would I configure this box to be a NAS
and a router?
We can just say
it was a good excuse to go out and buy somewhere.
But I think one way you could make use of the
older thing would be to run
maybe run Linux on it
and then run the router
in a virtual machine just one thing
in one virtual machine
though the Linux could
make use of the
network cards and then present
virtual network cards to the router.
Have you considered that?
Well actually
the most recent
plan in my head is
that the box would be
a
primary, it would boot up,
it would be a NAS
and then it would also host
a virtual machine
that would be the router.
Do you mean the older hardware now?
I'm sorry, what was that?
Are you talking about the new
boxy-body old hardware you got from your brother?
No, I'm talking about
exclusive just a new box.
I'm not using the old box at all
at this time.
Because my thought was
if you want to have a router
you probably want
a physically separate box
and you probably want to use
the old hardware for something.
If FreeBSD doesn't support
the hardware on that box
you can still make use of the hardware
via the M-host in between.
No actually
that was never the problem.
The problem was that
I didn't and
I didn't have and didn't go out
and get the appropriate
network card for the old hardware.
The old box
supported
PSSense and BSD perfectly.
When it came up
it came up with a single
network interface
and did not support
the additional nicks
that I had added.
I knew that all I had
to do was go find
a Intel-based
nick and it would work.
Instead I went and bought
a whole other box.
I might not be the smartest
admin around.
That's what I'm saying.
You could probably support
that old box
with a Linux VM-host
and then have the vertio
network cards
in the FreeBSD guest.
I know that
the box does run
FreeBSD
PSSense.
But not supporting
all the nicks you put in.
I just put the wrong ones in.
I put in
a couple of
nicks.
Damn whatever the hell they
are.
That weren't Intel.
But they're just wrong
because PSSense didn't support
them, right?
But if your VM-host
could support them
that would be a solved problem.
You mean
oh, you mean
install a host
and then put the
system in.
So in that kind of use case
VM useful even if you're just
running one VM on the
physical machine because the
Linux layer could be a
translation layer for the
FreeBSD running on top.
Actually that
my very well worked just fine.
I
could put any vert
in any number of
VM-host
systems on it
and run
PSSense on that.
And
who know? Yeah.
That my work.
I may have to get that out of the
closet just to see.
Sounds good.
So wait a minute.
What am I going to do with the other
damn server?
Now you can do anything you like
about a NAS plan.
I've got three
four terabyte drives
that are going to
become my main
storage, I think.
12 terabytes.
That's a lot of family albums.
Yeah, a lot of dirty movies.
I would highly suggest
on those three
I would go ahead and get a
fourth drive.
So you have four
that raid those four drives
with the ZFS.
And I've just switched
over the ZFS here recently
from software
raid. And I love it.
It's so much more reliable,
I believe.
Yeah, I was going to use some
kind of a
five type system.
I was really only looking for
eight gigabytes.
I mean eight terabytes.
So you've
I've been trying to
decide on whether or not to
go to ZFS
or whether to stick
with
EXT4
for that.
And I just hadn't quite decided
whether or not to do that.
I would highly recommend ZFS.
It seems to be
more rough solid than
EXT4
or whatever other file system
from my past experience.
Performance is a problem,
not a big deal.
From what I saw, the performance is
not as good as with the
EXT4
but
it probably
it certainly seems to be
more reliable as far as
I don't know,
power failures
and things like that.
If things that happen while you're
in the middle of
saving files and all that sort of stuff.
But I don't
I guess
my most of my experience
of course is in windows
and there was only one
file file system.
And you actually have choices
of the Linux.
And so I've been trying to figure out
exactly which one.
And ZFS seems to be the one
that is
most recommended.
Then you go to look at
and performance wise it seems to be a little lower.
I would like to talk a bit about
free open source hardware.
And what people are doing with that.
And FPGA and all that.
Does anyone have any experience
in that area?
You saying open
open source hardware?
Yeah, like this year
I think if it did
already, I think this year
there's a risk 5
with a build FPGA coming out.
It would be really cool if someone
would put that on the board
with.
But otherwise, yeah, risk 5 is
a processor architecture
that is entire free hardware.
So anyone is allowed to
modify and use it.
And it's really
looking like it's got a bright future.
Western Digital
just came out and said they're going to make
all their future products
use risk 5 in
and then there was a discussion
on the August,
August planet RSC channel
just a few hours ago.
About how everyone is talking
about Raspberry Pi and it's liberating people
but it's not really
with nobody's building phones with it.
And now XJ9 just came on the channel
and you're working
with your hero punch
and Tomo OS
project, which is exactly about
actually creating
among other things your own phone, right?
Yeah.
That's what we're trying to do.
Yeah.
So the idea is
we want to make
we're calling, well,
I'm calling them like DIY core devices
but it's a little bit more
complicated than just like
plugging pieces together.
But we want to make
plans for manufacturing your own
phone in just like
sort of like
basic electronics
lab, you know, like, you know,
how to solder and, you know,
how to read instructions
you can manufacture your own
smartphone that works together with some
mesh technologies just to create
like an alternative
to sell
and like, you know,
like traditional
smartphone stuff,
you can compare
to peer
and decentralized alternative
to that where you can just
get plans and parts
manufacture your own
device and then use it on this
open like mesh network.
There are so many aspects that go
into this like
first you have, okay,
we've been working on software
freedom for 20 or 30 years
or how do we control the software runs on.
And then once you got that,
then like you already brought up,
then there's also the topic of network freedom,
which is especially acute in the US this year.
So that's interesting what people are doing,
building mesh networks and how can those mesh networks
connect to each other on the global scale
without getting interfered with by big intermediaries.
And like, and even just from like an interaction perspective,
like most of our systems are designed around this idea
of a reliable, persistent network connection,
which in a mesh type context isn't really true.
Like you'll have,
you're gonna have, I mean, you can have connectivity,
but it's not gonna be the same as having like really expensive,
like cell infrastructure,
they have all these towers all over the place
that provide strong signals and all these things.
A mesh network provided by cellular,
or like Raspberry Pi's or cell phone type devices
isn't really gonna be this really reliable thing.
So you have to build around that week,
kind of semi-connected network infrastructure
to be able to really take advantage of,
or just to have like a really good experience,
you have to build around that weakness
where the internet isn't,
it's not a fiber connection,
it's an intermittent wireless connection
that can help good throughput,
but not necessarily all the time.
So that's something that I think that the secure scuttlebutt team,
or people, consortium, whatever they call themselves,
are doing really well,
it's because it's this lazy gossip type of architecture.
So rather than trying to have like a global thing,
like a DHT or something like that,
you can just pass messages to the next person
that's also running a client,
and so you don't really need to have like a connection
from you to anyone else.
You just have to have a hop of the ability to hop to,
whoever you're trying to talk to.
Yeah, so when you're on an internet network,
it becomes really interesting to have this,
the content address systems be interesting,
because you can have cash,
it's low can respond really quickly,
even if you have many hops,
if you're gonna reach all around the globe,
but if you can have a local, for example, an IPFS
or a secure scuttlebutt hub,
then you could still have good interactivity with that
for content that people are using.
So that's a very interesting aspect of what we can do
to get around having to have a centralized hierarch network
that provides low latency connections,
the shortest from client to server.
But now I feel like it's just me and XJ9 talking here.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this stuff?
Have you thought about this?
Like does everyone know what secure scuttlebutt is?
I hear that not everyone has heard about it.
So secure scuttlebutt or SSB is a sort of social network
protocol where it's similar to and from very many projects
in the area, like Twister has some similarities to it
and IPFS has some similarities to it.
But basically, each node on the network
is corresponding to a user and a public key and a private key
and the node and the user,
when you publish a post,
that post becomes the next entry in a appendent-only log
and this log is signed, hashed and signed,
just like in Git and do when you follow people,
you connect to them and the gossip I was talking about
is the node's exchange information.
Yeah, what logs have you got it?
Yeah, I've got these five logs, okay.
My latest message in this log is PQZ1-2-3.
Yeah, I got that one, but I've got a later one.
There is this one and so they can exchange information
and even if you never connect directly to the node
of user XYZ, as long as you connect to other nodes,
at some point, connects to XYZ.
So this is the intermittent part.
You can securely know that they are not feeding you
a bogus information.
So that's pretty interesting.
Yeah, I really like that.
One of the kind of like design goals for SSB was
to not rely on a global distributed data structure.
So that's one thing like a DHT.
It's like, it's a hash table, but it's distributed,
but there's just one hash table that's kind of like the whole,
this whole swarm of like a BitTorrent RIPFS
are kind of connected to.
Yeah, Bitcoin.
Or Bitcoin, yeah.
So they're like the one in blockchain.
But in SSB, every node has its own log.
So there isn't like a global,
there isn't anything that's global.
Like if I get a log, I get it from a specific user or node.
And it's not replicated or connected to anything else
other than their publicity.
So if we imagine a system,
oh yeah, I guess it exists, BitMessage,
where you have a central blockchain
and you serialize your sequence of messages through that.
That means everyone who want to participate
to basically download the whole thing or trim information.
But if you just handle the logs that you are interested in,
then scalability becomes a whole different game
from this whole massive global state situation
where you have lots of disparate states instead.
And every node has its own view of the network.
It's like how we see in the Fediverse that each,
federated has its own idea of what is the global state,
depending on what users people on that server happen to be following.
Except that on SSB, every server is a,
every node is a single user node.
So but on the topic of free hardware,
has anyone here been playing with FPGAs?
I'm curious if there are any good,
tinker-friendly A boards out there,
like something that is not just the FPGA
and then you'll have to figure everything out.
But something sort of like the Rasphile,
where you have a system on chip and you have the FPGA
and you can connect it to things using some kind of simple standardized interfaces.
For example, ARM, I don't,
I guess it's not ARM themselves.
There's, I guess it's Zylinx that produces it.
Zinc processors at YNQ is an ARM core that has an integrated FPGA thing.
And this has actually been used in productions,
in production.
I'm working with some people who make embedded applications
and they use Zinc in their product because it's,
even if they have quite a large volume of hardware
that they still don't want to make an ASIC
because if they have a device with an FPGA in it,
that's fast enough for their purposes
and that means they can always upgrade it
when they have products out in the field that they need to upgrade.
So that's pretty cool.
So Gerallo 2, what's the vampire board?
Is that a GPU or?
So Gerallo 2 says in the channel,
it's not for tinkering specifically,
but you're supposed to be able to make your own course.
Omega emulator replaces the 68,000 processor in a real machine.
So is the vampire board something that is used to emulate amigas, you mean?
So instead of just running UAE on your machine,
you would put in a vampire board and then program it to run as a Motorola processor.
And they're saying, yeah, it replicates the CPU,
but adds memory, HDMI, it's a drive-dease port.
Okay, that's pretty cool.
I think there's so many things that people could be doing with FPGA,
like for tinkering, but it seems like it's still sort of,
it's not something that has become a huge thing yet,
but it could be a huge thing any year.
It's like with 3D printing, there's lots of people getting into it now,
but it's still lots of 3D printed talk is like,
oh, this is great in the future.
Some hackerspaces, your printers,
and people are doing cool stuff there,
but actually I've never done any 3D printing myself.
I think 3D printing, well, I don't know,
this is still saying it'll be good in the future,
but like if you have, like just with like the Tomo project that I'm working on,
we're planning on using 3D printers to do like,
to making that a school.
Yeah, I don't know how to, never very good at 3D modeling myself,
but yeah, I think like just, I guess you need,
first of all, the skills are like something to specifically to do with the 3D printer,
but I mean, if you have the ability to create your own devices more easily
and have kind of more tools for that kind of workflow,
I think 3D printing gets more interesting because then like,
I can make, I don't know, I need,
I need an IoT device.
I can easily get a chip online somewhere,
make an enclosure for it,
and program it, and hook it up to my like,
compute mesh, or link it to my mesh network or whatever.
I mean, if it's easy to build something and then hook it up to your,
the stuff that you hear other devices,
I think there's more uses for a 3D printer than just like,
when you don't really have all those pieces for making stuff,
that's more custom.
Hey, Tyson, into this whole free everything.
If you create your own network, you create your own hardware,
you create your own software,
all of this is stuff that can be easily defined in,
in sort of door or other,
depending on where you draw the line for code or code,
or like electronic representations,
with the 3D printer,
you can even provide the case for your electronic set.
So Gerallo2 says,
I made a rocket-shaped cell phone charger,
my own design,
and usually I just print what I find and modify where necessary.
tinkercare.com if you don't know 3D modeling,
Fusion 360, or on shape.com if you know 3D modeling,
then go.
So, where do people share 3D things?
Is that thingyverse that people use?
Or am I completely out of date referencing that?
And is anyone using like online third party services?
Or is 3D printing still a thing where you need to be at the printer
because you're going to mess things up
and you're going to have to do like five prototypes before you get it right?
Gerallo2 says,
Thingyverse is the fake 3D models.
A real good one is called 3D.com.
So I guess that means yes, I'm out of date
and only people who don't actually deal with this
still talk about Thingyverse.
Gerallo2 says,
I think yeggi.com yeggi.com
is a multi-site 3D model searching site
like web spider was.
Cool.
I'm going to have to add this to my Syrix instance
if it's not already part of it.
What instance? Syrix?
Oh, the search with the next search.
Oh, I don't know.
I don't know how to pronounce things.
I don't know if anyone knows how to pronounce things.
So, Syrix, it supports plugins like you add,
you use it as a meta crawler
and then you can add some crawlers to it
or meta search engine.
I thought Syrix was like yachtsy
and it crawls
and it federates with other things that crawls
and then they just index this stuff together
and you search for it.
No, it just query other things
and then it's a meta search.
So it queries a bunch of stuff
and then brings you all the search results.
It does have a plugin for Yassie though.
So if you want to run a Yassie spider
you can hook your Syrix instance to it
or point your Syrix server to your Yassie instance
and then you'll get Yassie results mixed in with all your other meta search results.
And then Yassie just another subterge engine
that it meta searches basically.
Yeah.
So how is Yassie these days?
Does it work or is it just full of people gaming the system?
I have only started to look into it.
Actually, I haven't...
I've been looking into using it as a spider for my...
So I have a Syrix instance
that I'm trying to get people to use
and I want to have my own spiders.
But...
Jerala II says the thing to look for
is a real of the model printed.
Don't rely on a 3D view of the model as being a good print.
If Thingiverse doesn't show the printed results
it's probably just someone's experiment.
That makes sense.
Yeah, that sort of ties back to what I was saying.
Like, yeah, it looks good in 3D,
but iterations you're going to have to do
before you know that it actually works in reality.
Jerala II says exactly.
So I'm not really familiar
with like the 3D printing world.
I'm working on it, but...
So do people normally contribute back to models
like if I printed it,
I needed to make these adjustments for it to look good.
Do people normally post the modified version
or say, give feedback to the creator?
Or is that...
I don't know.
What is the community like around that?
Nobody knows.
All right, now my five-year-old sub consultant
came out of the bedroom.
Okay, so there's not really like a...
Okay.
So there's a really like a...
Get type of like forking branching model
for 3D model.
Well, I guess like you kind of do it manually,
but there's not really like a...
I guess tools for that kind of thing.
It kind of sounds like that.
Hey, excuse me now.
And I guess you have speech synthesis on,
but I think the text in the channel
will not end up in the recorded stream.
Oh, okay.
You better read it out loud.
Okay.
I'm going to turn up speech synthesis
so that I'm on the same page then.
So Jorlato said,
on Thingiverse,
you can link to the original sagricy.
If you mod something,
you repost it,
but sure, the original...
But you show the original,
your mod was from,
then you can see the chain of changes.
They're all covered by some kind of lines.
You can find things to print and sell.
Then there's things you just print for yourself.
So is that just like,
I'm on a web page,
and I link to another web page,
or is there actually a support
for following tracking the changes?
Jorlato says,
most of the print this link
that goes to a third dollar
that prints your thing too.
Well, when people create these models,
is it also part of the data model,
what kind of material you use,
and so on,
because I'm assuming that affects the print as well.
If you print with one kind of ABA stick,
and you print with another,
I'm guessing,
would be make differences in the end product.
Jorlato says,
the differences are machine dependent.
You put in your description what machine
and what settings you use
to get at a successful print.
With 3D,
you can print the same filament,
a little harder,
a little colder,
a little faster or slower,
and get very different results.
It seems like that would be something that,
well, not all of it,
I guess it depends on the machine,
but it seems like it would be useful
to have some way to,
like, have that type of information
in a way that's usable by a machine,
because then you could,
I mean, if you're using the same machine,
settings,
and you could just copy that,
those instructions instead of having to manually adjust them,
I don't know.
But,
well, it also depends on how deterministic the machines are.
I mean, it seems like many people,
many people buy a 3D printer,
and then the first thing they do is start printing.
All right, I'm not allowed to talk anymore.
Yeah, I guess I'm assuming that 3D printers are,
like, maybe more deterministic
than they actually are,
so that might be something that I
need to learn more about before I can come in.
Yeah, it seems like the first thing people do
want to get a 3D printer
is to pop some,
like, a 3D printer brother.
Going back to,
like, open hardware,
one of the, I think,
challenging parts of having open hardware
is how expensive it is to manufacture.
I mean, manufacturing
silicon chips at scale
is really inexpensive per unit,
which is a good thing.
But the problem is that,
in order to have,
in order to make it inexpensive per unit,
you have to manufacture,
like, a huge number of devices,
and that itself is extremely expensive.
So, like,
it creates this kind of, I guess,
I don't know,
it creates a problem,
because we want to have open hardware
that we can hack on
and do whatever we want with.
But, at the same time,
we need to have access to,
like, hundreds of thousands of dollars
or more to be able to fabricate these devices
that we can,
so that we can have something
to control and hack on.
So, there's kind of this,
I don't know,
like, and it's a problem,
because how do we also,
just with designing them,
like, it takes a huge amount of expertise,
and you need other expensive hardware,
to design your expensive hardware.
So, it's, I don't know,
there's all these, like,
really expensive parts to it
that make it difficult, I guess.
And I guess maybe that's why we're not there yet,
is it's just really difficult
to make open hardware,
unless you're already a hardware company.
And most of them are,
I mean, it's basically all proprietary at this point,
but it's just really,
like, a difficult thing to get into,
if you don't already have the facilities
to manufacture the stuff with.
And that's kind of what we're trying to figure out.
We don't have a solution yet,
but that's kind of what we're trying to figure out,
with Hero Punch,
it's an open-source project,
but we're trying to figure out how to do that.
We're using Raspberry Pi
is kind of the basic compute board
for our first try,
but it would be cool
if, somehow, in the future,
we could build, like,
risk V devices or something,
that, and maybe do something,
like a crowd sale,
or some way to rate,
kind of, like, pull together,
the money that it would take to do a production run,
of some open device,
because if we,
if we, like, come together and, like,
hey, let's print,
like, a thousand, or,
I don't know what the number is,
but more than a thousand of some board,
then it could be really cheap,
like, we could all get $30,
custom risk V boards,
that are, like, a Raspberry Pi,
but we're open,
but we'd need to have a lot of us
come together and order them all,
once in order to get that,
to get the cost down to something reasonable.
Or, I mean, the other alternative is,
we can try to figure out how to 3D print a silicon fab,
and then we wouldn't need the expensive production run thing.
But that's also a question
how generic and how fast and how cheap can we make FPGAs?
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
I mean, yeah, I mean,
FPGA would be a whole different ballgame
because, I mean, if assuming it can be,
it can replace GPUs,
like, you just have to be able to manufacture one type of chip,
and then you can,
you can do basically anything with it.
Can you hear my audio?
Yes.
Isn't Arduino open hardware?
I think so.
And they've succeeded through education pretty much,
and schools and stuff,
kind of like Raspberry Pi.
Yeah.
So maybe you need to put some kind of STEM program together
for your particular FPGA stuff.
That is a, that's a good idea.
Wasn't there an OS, like,
HIKU or something that had FPGA support in the OS?
Or was that one of the sort of new Amiga computers,
type of thing?
I don't think HIKU has that.
That sounds like something that an Amiga project
would have in it, though.
Wasn't the HIKU tie-in though,
the PowerPC architecture,
not necessarily Amiga or FPGA?
I think it runs on Amiga hardware,
or something.
HIKU?
HIKU is just...
I could be wrong.
So it's based on an open source version
of a CUBE kernel,
but that was for X86.
I think there's a lot of overlap
between IQ and Amiga communities,
and both of them come from...
I mean, the new Amigas,
beyond the actual commercial Amigas,
they were on PowerPC.
So I think there are Amiga-intended platforms
that can also run HIKU OS
a bit wrong about that.
Yeah, Amiga is using the PowerPC
because of the NDNS,
and I can't remember which is which,
but X86 is either bigger little Indian,
and Amiga OS is the opposite,
and that's why they're not going to re-engineer
the whole stack just to run on X86.
From what I understand,
part of the problem of the new Amiga stuff
is they keep trying to run it
on PowerPC type architecture,
and I think there was only one manufacturer left,
and they're so expensive to get the hardware
that is just not feasible
unless you just really, really have to have it.
But what about the new power laptop?
Even the 3D printed Amiga laptop?
Fireworks are starting here.
I didn't understand that.
Very choppy.
You own Wi-Fi or HardWard?
The OD dummy posted from Morph OS
site just in time compiler
that emulates a 68K family of processors
and thereby allows to transparently execute
legacy applications developed for the Commodore A
X00 series of computers.
You'll find a selection of core components
described below,
but they list only PowerPC architectures.
I'm not familiar with Morph OS.
I just kind of follow the original Amiga stuff.
Not sure, but I think it was the amp-hour podcast
I was listening to,
and they had an interview with someone
that was talking about FPGA,
and there are a few products
that you use every day that are actually FPGA
because they're easy to reproduce,
I guess, across a bunch of different platforms
or circuit boards or something.
So there are some companies out there
that are just FPGA chips
that are too expensive
to put together in a set, I guess, I don't know.
I'm to get, like, so common that somebody can make
something like a Raspberry Pi.
Because the Raspberry Pi is really just like something
that Broadcom just makes a lot of these chipsets.
So it was just cheap and easy to put together
in an educational board.
Yeah, I think the idea was,
instead of buying, let's say, five different chips,
get your main chip emulated
and then emulate the other four chips
in that one chip,
then you buy one FPGA,
and that turned out cheaper to do
than to buy the five chips
and put them on board.
Which may be sad in the future
if you take your stuff apart
and you're going to find an FPGA
and it will be locked down
and as soon as you try to reverse engineer it,
it locks up on you.
Oh, that would be sad.
Do you watch CNXsoftware.com
to usually have reviews
of new boards coming out?
Could you post a link to that?
CNXsoftware.com?
Or just...
Yeah, CNX-
Oh gosh.
Okay.
Oh cool.
I'm going to watch it now.
I just looked for FPGA
and this is the first one that came up.
Melon S3 FPGA,
Arduino and Raspberry Pi compatible board
is programmable over Wi-Fi
using ESP8266 WISOC.
Oh my god.
500,000 gates.
This one looks cool.
It's an Arduino-sized FPGA setup.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
This one looks cool.
That's funny.
News from 2011.
And for more board clacking,
tune in to the board podcast on YouTube.
That's a fun project.
You can build your own clacky keyboard.
Happy New Year Hawaii.
Happy New Year.
Does anybody have a steam link?
Okay.
So is it bad that none of the risk V-cores
have passed their compliance suite?
Did everybody fall asleep?
Oh, I'm just good quiet.
Did you say you're doing stuff with BSD now?
How far is the New Year going?
How far is the New Year going?
I'm in 42 minutes.
Do they do Australia first?
I don't know.
I was late for the public speech.
So you're still here?
No, minor.
Yeah, I'm still here.
When they do a silence compression,
they're going to save a lot of space.
Yeah, exactly.
Happy New Year.
Happy New Year.
Now, I just got to dig up that calendar
that I talked away last year.
Only a few more to go.
Alaska is the last U.S.
No, still some more U.S. dates to go.
Time for coffee.
That's what we say. Time for coffee.
I don't know.
I'm in Hawaii and I'm 45 minutes in.
So there's no more U.S. stuff.
Don't they do Australia and New Zealand first?
According to the time and date.com counters
and multi-count down.html.
We've got Anchorage, Fairbanks,
Juno and Onalaska.
Going in 14 minutes.
And French Polynesia in 45 minutes.
Two small regions of U.S.
Hallelujah.
That bad pay.
America's Samoa.
We'll be then going in our later.
Honolulu was 45 minutes ago.
Was it?
Yeah.
Well, not Honolulu, but Kona, Big Island.
Same time zone.
H-O-Honolulu.
Is that the same one?
That's Hawaii. That's where I am.
Well, time and date.
I want to say in one hour.
Maybe Marshall Islands.
Here's the argument with somebody who's actually there.
Okay, here's the, are you on the chat?
Yes, obviously.
So what's wrong with that?
Here in Boston.
It's a bombing one degree.
Feels like 15 below.
Where UTC minus 10 here.
Okay.
That's weird.
So suddenly my faith in time and date.com is just disappeared.
Anyway, I don't know where Baker Island and Halen Island.
I don't know where that is, but that's supposed to be a U.S. minor outlying island.
That's probably the final mark at three hour deal.
Yeah, it says hour 12, Honolulu.
But we're on HST.
I don't know what H-A-S-T is.
According to Dr. Gold, the time in Baker Island and U.S. minor outlying island is 8.47 pm.
I see one of the things Halalulu is.
Maybe you'll, you'll get around.
It's going to tell all your neighbors.
Go back in.
It'll be another hour.
Time in Halalulu.
United States is 10.48 pm on Sunday 31st December 2017.
Am I doing something wrong?
Could be the time-stashing of my clock.
I guess my computer time is wrong.
Because I'm showing Hawaii Illusion time 10.49 to 10.50 roughly.
They're a long way to go.
My computer says it's 12.49 pm.
The clock on the wall says 10.50.
Okay.
But the only solution to this is coffee.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you're still on fresh ground, I hope.
Yeah, I got 10.49, according to Google.
You know what it is?
I think it's my VPNing has screwed me up.
Using the wrong time zone for the VPN and somehow things get reset.
Well, I think with the forecast.
The high today is supposed to be 15 degrees, 14 degrees depending on who you listen to.
There's a windshield advisory until 10 o'clock in the morning.
I think I'll be out here until the close of the new year.
And then I'm going to crash and bury myself under the cover.
And that can right again.
Gentlemen, my brother in Missoula, Montana has a bombing 16 degrees.
Boston area is colder than Montana.
And it's going to be warmer today.
I went for a bike ride last week and it was 65.
I had to put a jacket on.
I think I'm going to have the first meal of the year.
Okay, got coffee.
Well, I'm going to have, I guess you'd call it breakfast.
First meal of two days.
Although this was used to be my favorite lunchtime.
I was doing midnight day security.
Are you working right now?
I'm on disability.
Thank goodness.
I'll just try to check.
It predicted my house in a small retirement savings.
A very small and shrinking retirement savings.
Yeah, they've just moved up the retirement age over here as well.
Did you get any sleep?
That's why I wasn't on during the middle of the day.
Aha.
I must have missed that.
So you're operating in UTC times, Alma.
One of the many pills that I'll be taking is for anxiety nightmares.
So sleep and I are old enemies.
Not good.
Oh, dude.
I'm just wondering, should I restart soldering this PCV now?
It might be a good idea.
That voice sounds familiar.
Does terrible fire mean anything?
No.
That's a fellow on YouTube who does open source hardware upgrades for,
I think, amigurts.
Some of this stuff will work on Atari's too.
Yeah, he's got to make a 500 board that puts on 68-030.
And he's working up towards the 68-040 board.
That seems like something that would be right up my alley.
What's his, what's his hand-legged?
On YouTube, it's terrible fire.
And unfortunately, I don't remember where he's actually located but he is in Europe.
Yeah, but the letter link will put it into the channel.
Yeah, he subscribes to the V-Bug and retrocave and modern vintage gamer.
Let's have a look.
Although I must say I'm not that into the Atari.
Never put a forward on it, to be honest.
Well, if you ever want to know how to handle surface mount devices.
Oh, he digs me.
Did he see scholars?
Did they have a surface mount device at the back then?
No, but they have them today and he fights with them and he thinks they're easy.
Oh, okay.
Yes, and he's rather so far so it's just a point of me.
Surface mount devices, CPLDs, I don't know.
My claim to fame is designing two touchstone interfaces for PDP 11.
One of them use mopses and one of them use price date devices.
And the touchstone interface was stolen off of a board that we were already creating.
Because the touchstone interfacing to this switch capacitor decoder was very black magic.
Wow, there's a show right there.
Sorry to be to be repeating myself.
But seriously, do a few shows on this.
Besides, you may want to steal one of his IDE interfaces or his interface to.
He's doing some work on putting a sad interface on one of his cards and stuff like that.
Oh, okay.
I think I'll be happy if I get my component test to work in to be honest.
Everybody's got to start somewhere except me.
Seriously, I think I burnt them last night trying to mess with them so much.
I would be shocked if this thing worked.
Still, it was a learning experience.
They're on there.
It's actually wrong.
You're going to get shocked anyway.
Yeah.
I'll hardly with DC voltage.
A 9 volt DC.
Well, it's next to resistors, capacitors or transistors.
I think resistors, they're smaller.
Yeah, we'll do resistors.
I'll, life's wake back and forth.
Yeah, the only hardware that I do is so far is like 86 and that's the reason I got my single core.
The machine's box was to give you a more modern machine than my P4 single core.
I was going to do some hardware swapping around and I figured to do it better on an expendable machine and then learn how to put in modern hard drives and stuff.
Had a little problem with the first build though.
Evidently, the card that I put in used the same chipset as on board for the same vectors and the same bio.
Okay, I got official permission to solder this.
You have to check with she who rules my life voluntarily.
My wife, the person who deals the intro and outros.
Happy new year, my lady.
Yeah, she's out in the other room.
Yes.
Okay, so let's see.
Tell her she could have improved the show considerably.
Manon, you could have improved the show considerably.
I doubt that.
I really like listening to the new year show.
Yes, what the ladies do improve in Abraham.
Indeed.
Said Marilyn, that's my mother.
That was my mother's name.
Yeah, her name is Manon from French.
It was a bit called Manon, the source of my mother and I was reading it separately at the time.
She was pregnant.
Well, yeah, one of the ladies I was doing some business with was Noel,
because she was also able to deliver it on Christmas.
Yeah, her birthday is January 10th.
You know, very good.
I named Kenneth because my mother was expecting a girl and then she named me after the baby who was in the bed next to her.
In fairness to her, she already had three boys.
She would probably run out of names by that stage.
And she would be told the lady who was in the bed next to her was also a good friend.
Yeah, the only female I have to look up to right here is the cat.
There's a lot of those around.
Well, this one is a tuxedo cat female.
Tuxedo cats are known to be a little crazy.
And I do believe that there's serious problems with the education system around here.
How so?
Well, when I was a kid, they talked me about pussy cats.
They talked me about pussy cats.
This one is a pushy cat.
Yeah, I think this spelling should be changed.
If we're going to be politically correct, pushy cat is definitely the one.
Also, when I was transitioning, my mother was in the nursing home and the title of the property hadn't transitioned into my name.
They called the utility company up and they said, all right, you're not a tenant.
You're not the homeowner.
Can I put you in for property manager?
And I said, yes, you know anyone will catch a check or cat.
Did they find that amusing?
Well, it was the best I could do at the time.
My mother just having gone into a nursing home.
Okay, it turns like these knowing the color bounds and the resistor would help.
However, with the flight band resistors, it's hard to tell which one where to start.
This orange, orange, black, red, brown, or brown, red, black, orange, orange.
Or do I just switch on my multimeter and measures?
Yeah, multimeter, switchy on, check it.
Yeah, my dad tried to teach me that stuff back in the day, but it didn't really take.
This is where a component tester would be very handy.
33K apparently that one.
No, let's see.
Do we do the colors much up?
Bad boys ruin our young girls.
Well, thank you.
Let me write that down.
Which translates to black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green.
What about blue, violet, gray?
I don't remember that part.
Those are not usually something I use.
Black boys ruin our...
No, bad boys.
That would be inappropriate.
Was it bad boys?
It's inappropriate enough.
Yeah, he's actually ruin our young girls.
It is, it is bad enough.
The electronic teacher was an old Navy guy, so, you know, that's where that comes from.
That sort has just given me one of the questions in my hand radio eggs.
Thank you very much.
I have an old Navy story that I picked up on the USS Massachusetts.
Well, the Navy had equipped the ships with low power radio transmitters to teach the, you know, young sailors more code and Navy procedures and all the good stuff without necessarily going using the main transmitters.
Well, a lot of the radio men were, of course, amateur radio operators from, you know, from civilian life.
Yeah.
So what happened was that they got together and they formed an unofficial network when the stuff wasn't being used for instruction.
And somebody twigged that the radio direction finders were finding unauthorized transmitters being operated in the Bay area, wherever this was at the time.
And the guy said that the last thing that he transmitted was this station is shutting down permanently.
And were they on ships now or were they on the basis?
They were on ships and the ships, the whole, you know, that they were, they had practice transmitters or training transmitters added in addition to the main units.
All right.
And just like in universities where there's an unintended computer and hackers around people tend to gravitate and start using it.
Oh, yes, they will do that.
I looks like I gave you the queen version.
Okay, that's great. I know what I go to do the rest of the day. Look up by anagrams for this.
The end of that is for the blues, but violet goes willingly.
So bad boys ruin our young girls, but violet goes willingly.
Oh, yes.
And apparently it's from its orange orange black red brown orange orange black red brown 33k.
I am going to be here the whole day doing this.
Well, basically, if you see black or brown, that's the end you start with.
The other end is going to be white gold or silver, maybe gray, and that's the, you know, that's the tail end.
Who's talking there?
J.R.L.A.
Time.
Have we met before?
I'm J.R.L.O. on the HPR and...
Hey!
Nice to meet you.
Yeah, good to talk to you.
Cool.
Quite any of the weekends really bring out the people here.
This is cool.
Ah, yes, the VIM is my IDE thing.
Yeah, that was a while ago.
Yeah, exactly.
It's okay, I heard my name on the review show the other day.
I'm glad to comment.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Your show is about the Omega 2.
Did you ever get one?
Kick starter, Omega 2 plus first time.
Do it setup up to obviously you did.
Yeah, I had a fish tank then.
I don't have a fish tank now.
I was going to put the temperature gauge on it.
Oh, yeah.
Check it.
So how did that go?
You never got that far.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm going to open have.
I want to set up the open have so I can control my sonoff switches.
Okay, that's one.
So what were you saying?
Look for the darker colors.
Oh, yeah, the black and the brown are going to be the starting end.
And the tail end is going to be gold or white or yellow.
Not yellow.
Gold or white or gold?
This one looks yellow.
So brown, orange, black, purple, anything.
And sometimes you won't even have the gold or silver mark.
That just tells you the tolerance.
If it's a 1% resistor or 5%.
Yeah, I'm not that concerned.
But as far as knowing which end to start from,
it's going to be the brown or the black or the red usually.
So I'm wrecked.
And this is a brown is there.
So that's going to be two.
Orange is how long?
Let me work to it.
Oh, there's another tell.
If there's a gap between some of them,
there's going to be a larger gap on the end.
Yeah, we'll have no gap.
Yeah, but then the brown has a massive gap over to the orange,
which is two, three, two, three, one.
Byless.
Two, three, one, seven.
No, two, three, zero, seven.
And it looks purple.
Is that violet?
I guess.
Let's measure.
Let's see if it's not blue.
It's violet.
Two, three.
Yeah, it's okay, but we'll see.
Yeah, I'm going to have to get rid of several
pounds of tubes
and a few nasty CRTs.
What seems to shame thrown that stuff away now?
It's getting so rare.
Well, unfortunately,
I have no way of passing it on to people who might use it.
There's no like a freescal or something like that.
Not that I know of in this area.
I hope you know how I'm contacting one of the museum guys,
and see, well, I'll put a call on the HPR
and see if anybody will be able to help us.
So two, three, seven, it is 20 mega ohm.
Is that the thing?
20, 23 mega ohm.
Good being.
You've got violet and the fourth position.
Position four is a multiplier.
And push the talk was on slow.
You didn't get any of that.
I don't know if it was very insightful.
So it's brow orange, black, violet, and then yellow.
And looking at the thing for 23 mega ohms is red, orange, black, green.
It's completely, completely wrong.
What was the fourth color?
It's like violet.
It could be the other way.
It could be, let's see, violet.
Yeah, maybe it is.
Yellow, violet, black.
And then you got a kit.
And that wasn't your kit.
Yep, yep.
You can imagine what a mega ohm resistor would be used for in that kit.
Yeah.
So it could be the other one.
Maybe it's 13k, not 13 meg.
Or it could go the other way.
47 something.
How it could be 47k, that's common.
470 and then 470 ohm.
Let me see.
Of course.
0 and then orange.
Three.
47k.
47k.
Oh, let me measure that.
Why did I get that off?
This makes great radio.
That's what we said.
Today on the DVC, you are listening to 10 Z-plots and resistors.
No, my DVM.
At 20k, my DVM is measuring.
Put it up to 100k.
What is it?
200k.
It measures something and then goes to 1.
Put it to 20 meg.
0.47.
That's strange.
0.47 mega ohms is 470k ohms.
Correct.
That's not my thing.
This is why.
And I'm piping that into a resistor thing.
Do you have a mega ohm range?
Or does it just go 10 meg?
It goes 20 meg ohms.
But then it goes 20 meg.
It's 0.47.
Mega ohms.
Okay.
So there, there, there, there.
470k ohm at 1% is.
Did you drum roll please?
Yellow.
Violet.
Correct.
Yellow by black.
Yeah.
And then we have orange.
And brown.
That's exactly what we have.
Dude, thank you ladies and gentlemen.
I will now apply brown on the end.
That is weird.
Yeah.
Brown on the end.
Because it's a 1%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that sucks.
So these are 470k ohms.
Please hold while I put them onto the boat.
That's strange that you'd have 1% resistors in a kit like that.
Yeah, but they're so cheap now that's older, that's older.
And whether they're 1% or not is another question.
But people will buy the 1% because it's 1%.
So let's take these 15%, 15% ones and just sell them as 1%.
Why don't we?
Do you build a lot of kits yourself?
Not so much kits.
I'm a surround with Arduino stuff and SP266.
Yeah, I'm seeing an awful lot about that.
I'm surprised we didn't have to add more shells actually.
There's never a solid workflow.
Every time you mess with it, it's different.
So there's not really like a format or a plan.
You have to lay out a script basically of procedures to do a particular thing to make a show out of it.
The general introduction will be cool though.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to do with the Omega thing.
I mean, it was a Kickstarter and then news and stuff.
Okay, we're all gone.
Join us after the break for the next Ken looks for a resistor.
Okay, these ones are very common because there's 1%, 3%, 6 of them in there.
And it's either brown, black, black, red, brown or brown, red, space, black, black, brown.
That's bizarre.
Okay.
The one here are 10K.
Oh, you're cheating now.
How am I supposed to learn this if you don't give me the time?
Black, bad boys, ruin our young girls, but fireless girls.
Yeah, you probably don't want to look up the real way that goes.
No.
I believe that's an exercise for the listener.
Okay, so it's one something.
Yeah, one, two are one, zero, more likely one, zero, something we're guessing.
One, zero, zero, red, two, one, zero, zero.
So the two is a multiplier.
So one, zero, zero, zero, zero.
Many zeroes.
That's one, zero, zero.
So 10K.
Place your bets, folks.
Place your bets.
Yes, 10K.
This is a surprising amount of phone.
I think LED stuff.
They always have like a 470 ohm or 220 ohm in series to limit the current for like a single diode LED.
But this is small stuff.
This is like for an Arduino mega something based around an Arduino.
So it's actually got an Arduino in it.
Yep, yep, yep.
It's a transistor tester.
If you go look at the show notes, you can see the link.
I'll find a free haul on it.
I was lazy, I think about like a $5 one that was already put together.
Yes, but maybe I like that pain of making tea.
Let me see.
It's not there.
Actually, I don't know if I put it in there.
That is a reference I do know.
Do you know?
Watch what I'm saying.
Yeah, miss those guys.
Yeah, exactly.
I can't really watch the single guy by himself.
It's not the same.
No.
That would be in a communicable matter.
Do you have Irish descent?
Or I just want to bring how accessible is that if you're not Irish?
Oh, now I was just thinking of the Linux out was.
All right.
And the reference to them come from comes from Father Ted.
Ah, that I did not know.
It's a, it's a.
It was a Irish TV series about some priests who are so bad at their job that they got sent out to the island.
That's the coast of Ireland somewhere.
But the island just so crappy that one half of the fell off into the sea.
Nobody noticed.
Oh, great.
It's just really, really, really bizarre.
But very, very accurate depiction of Ireland at that time.
My grandmother was a hundred percent Irish.
Yeah.
She married an Italian boy in New York City.
Ah, very nice.
At least he's Catholic.
You can just hear the French.
I'm sure that was the thing.
Oh, what are we doing?
10K resist.
No, we're looking up the board.
That's what we're looking at.
Actually, I can go on better.
I have a video of somebody putting it together.
Let me post that into the channels.
2394.
It'll blow your ears out just when you're turning off just for your information.
I don't like the in-way bill meter talk.
Very much so.
And this is exactly why I bought this.
Do you watch the EEB blog?
Yeah.
I've started watching it on the train.
So I'm watching three or four episodes per day.
So I've gone back.
I'm currently at 2014.
So don't leave me for me.
He also does the amp hour podcast with another guy.
Yes.
It's over.
Is that news or chatter?
Or is the word listening to you?
It's mostly electronics talk.
So it's things happening in the electronics industry.
Like Dave will talk about the meter he's building in the progress
and what's going on next.
And sometimes they'll have interviews of people in the industry.
But it's like engineers or people building a certain thing
or some particular technology.
It's really cool.
I don't think I'm ready for that just.
And then sometimes it's just them catching up
with what's happened the last time they talked.
But it's audio.
The day of the normal show is the video.
And then this other one's audio as far as I know.
Do they.
There wouldn't be a lot of point going back to the start of those.
Will there?
Uh, depending on your podcast player,
I would look through the list and just download the ones
that you think look interesting.
Okay.
Sometimes Dave isn't honored at all.
And they have an interview.
So one of the guys I talked to a month or so ago,
actually, I think he used to work for a company in California
and all these guys switched jobs like every other year.
And I think this guy moved to,
I don't know, India or Indonesia somewhere east.
And he works on a farm and he's trying to get technology
into the hands of farmers.
But, you know, inexpensive DIY kind of technology
like the ESP A3266 and stuff like that
and trying to build useful projects out of it.
He did some kind of thing for,
I think the sewage waste company that does sewage in Egypt
where they go to the houses and they pump out the sewage
and they have to take it somewhere.
And so he made a thing for tracking the trucks
because what was happening is the guys driving the trucks
would just take it and dump it in the river which they're not supposed to do.
And so they needed a way to track that.
And I think it was something to do with the UN collaboration as well.
So, you know, this, you know, one engineer guy got this opportunity
to go work in Egypt to do this special project
that's, you know, world influencing and, you know, he does his own stuff
independently out in other countries.
So, always interesting people.
You know, very nice. Seems like right up my alley.
Cool. Thanks.
Hi guys. Can you hear me?
Hello, Ken. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year, Tony. Nice to, nice to catch up.
Thank you.
So, what's going on this time of the morning?
On New Year's day when everyone's probably recovering from hangovers.
It's riveting stuff here.
We're going through the colors of resistors
as I put in resistor test.
You remember that?
Am I building a show on the component tester sometime back?
Yeah.
And I got one.
And in order to not only was I out the expense of the kit,
I bought a new soldering arm with two heads,
all sorts of tips for it, magnifying glasses.
Yeah, I was telling the story of that on the yet review show last night
when I was listening to it.
What does the knob do?
It controls the menu, apparently.
You can, it's a function generator as well.
And if you fast forward to the end of that video,
it'll show you, and you can do self calibration.
Okay. So, I got the like $7 one.
It doesn't do any of that stuff.
It just, you plug in whatever and it tells you what it is.
But function generator would be cool.
You know what I really would like is an episode on is
I have like one of these.
Hold on a second.
I've got one of these bits called micro things, right?
Which is a USB.
Yeah.
Crap is perfect for that.
Yeah.
But you do do.
And everybody else has gone, oh my god,
he's just fallen for this.
But I have one of these things, right?
And I was thinking, this is a good, this is a basic,
probably, you know, basic introduction to an oscilloscope.
Yeah.
It's around a hundred bucks, and it can do stuff.
So, yeah.
So, I got this thing, right?
And I plugged it in and I got it working on my Linux machine
and on my Raspberry Pi.
No problem.
And I'm sitting there.
I have no clue what to test with this.
How to work in a oscilloscope is, you know,
the way that in the, so I was thinking, maybe if we say,
okay, people go up and buy this is this bit-scope thing.
And then you can follow a series of tutorials on it.
But, you know, unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a
sucker.
It's already a host who will be able to do a series on that.
Ah, I see a point as well.
I just think it's funny what's at the turn you said in a way.
Because I just woke up and about five minutes ago.
But I'm definitely not doing what you just said,
because I didn't actually have any alcohol this new year.
Believe it or not.
Not that big of an alcohol anyway.
Hi, sir.
Happy new year.
Yes, happy new year.
Also, who is Tony anyway?
Hi, I'm Tony H1212.
I've done a few shows on the HPR site.
I think a few shows might be a little bit modest.
Very familiar voice.
Yeah.
You saved our boat a few times this year.
Thank you very much for that.
You're welcome, okay?
I enjoy it.
It's usual.
So, come back to the transistor testing.
And the oscilloscope is that's like something that because for the hammer,
you know, we have recommended a cheap hammer radio,
which is probably not what people are going to end up with,
but what you get to the function of the thing where Mr. X has done a series on how to use the radio,
how to turn it on and that sort of thing.
And then you've got the hammer radio flabber doing the extension of that.
It would be nice for an electronics show that you know,
you get this bit scope.
It's never going to be the one that you're going to rely on professionally,
but to get an idea of the concepts that might be useful.
What, you know, what could you measure with that?
Well, I have to look at the range of it.
But the thing about those is you can do,
you can kind of make your own logic analyzer.
You could, at the very minimum,
you could just use it as a multimeter.
Yeah.
Sorry.
What it was thinking of was say you had an Arduino or a RAS and or a Raspberry Pi
and one of these bit scopes.
Could you look, do something like pulse with modulation
and then be able to show somebody how run this program on the Arduino,
connect to pin one and two with these leads,
and then this is how you can tune it on your, you know, the bit scope to see it.
That's kind of where it was going.
Yeah.
That's essentially using it as a multimeter.
So as you see the pulse with modulation,
you can, you can key on that signal.
And when it follows a certain period over a certain time,
you can set it up to capture a certain period of time on that particular line.
And that's what your bit scope is showing you.
Or if you just connect the lead to something between something and ground
and you turn the, you know, bit on or the bit off,
you can see it go up five volts or go to zero
and you just see the line go up to the five volt mark or it's at the bottom.
You know, little stuff like that.
That would be absolutely super to do.
It would be absolutely super to do.
The really cool thing about the bit scope though is you plug it into a Raspberry Pi
and then you go over to your laptop or your other computer
and you look at the live display of what it's measuring on your other computer
so you can do other things.
That is cool, but you can also display it on the Raspberry Pi.
Correct.
Yeah.
And those bit scope guys, they really know what they're doing.
If you follow our, do we know stuff or Raspberry Pi stuff on Google Plus?
Every once in a while you'll see a posting about
they're taking, you know, 15 bit scopes and 15 Raspberry Pi's
and making something out of it.
And they make this, you know, big giant, whatever.
So they're constantly doing stuff and improving their deal.
So I think it's a pretty good company.
Now, is that the company that makes the dual pi amounts and stuff?
Yeah, I think that's the one.
That's just pop a link into the thing.
Let me do this.
And you can have like a rack of, like a double or quadruple Raspberry Pi
scope set up basically.
That would be, that would be something I'd like the electronic engineers on the metric
and my bill perhaps to collaborate on and you just do a, here's a Raspberry Pi,
here's an Arduino program that pulls us something and then you can change this value
by turning a, turning a dial in your Arduino or a potentiometer in your Arduino
and then you see it through the bit scope on your pi, that would be just so awesome.
Okay, that's a basic introduction.
But far be it for me to pressure anybody into doing a show.
You've never done it with you.
Maybe.
Gosh, no.
Cool, you go.
The trick is to getting that to come through over audio.
Yes, but if Dave and Beezy can do something on Arc, then this should be easy,
easy, easy, lemon, squeezy.
And you also can put in screenshots into the show notes.
And they could be supporting audio from the video.
That's true.
And it's a challenge.
I mean, look at this.
We're doing a live PCV construction thing and people are following along without any problem.
That's right, we got transistor hunting 101 show right there.
Mike, it just has the plane drain LCD.
This one actually looks like it's got pixels.
Oh, now.
So all the 10 k's are in.
Now, let me see the next most common one are these.
There's three of them.
And contestants stand by your keyboards.
Sorry, don't all the close to the board stuff first.
Yeah, exactly.
I've done the insanely ludicrously small chip.
Like this thing is tiny.
And there's a capacitor that is so tuned-stoned.
It's virtually vertical, but apparently it's fine.
But the microchip was unbelievable.
Six little connectors each, like less than a millimeter apart.
And trying to do it with a regular solver stick.
But I traced with a continuous continuity tester, easy for you to say.
From each of the pin, the top of each of the pins right down to where it should be.
It seems okay, but I may have burnt the chip into toast.
Did you pretend all the leads?
Yep.
And the pads.
Yeah, that should be good.
Yeah, I went all over the shop.
Seriously.
Just make sure and alcohol it and scrub it with the plastic bristle brush when you're done.
Okay.
Yeah, but from the top of the chip down to a pad where it's fallen on the traces, it seems
okay.
So I'm pretty confident it's okay.
But what I'm not confident about is that I got pin 0 pin 1 for pin 1 is by the dot or the
notch.
You think if there was a natural effect, the dot or a notch.
The only thing I can find on the data sheet is there are no birds or production artifacts
on sides E and D1.
So I'm hoping for the best.
That's not cryptic at all.
Nope.
Well, it actually was, I think it's okay.
What's the worst that could happen?
Okay.
Now it's happy new year.
There's lots of firecrackers going off now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what's a time of days.
So firstly time of day dot com knows better than you.
What time zone is this?
I think my VPN.
No, I think my VPN messed me up because I was set to Pacific time for some reason, which
is not this time.
It's HST.
I don't know what happened.
Okay.
Look on my computer.
I am now clock is in the kitchen.
I am now awarding you the hacker of the nice contest for something who is so plugged into
the nest that relies on the computer time zone over the time of the wall.
It's whatever time I say it is.
Yeah.
That should be an XKCD cartoon somewhere.
So we have blue, brown, black, black, gold, something.
That sounds like gunshots.
I'm in a wood building downtown.
No need to find it.
Yep.
They do have a nice no far works on premises signs everywhere.
So maybe that'll save us.
Yeah.
You can say nothing about gunshots.
Let me see.
Blue.
Gold.
Gold is going to be a tolerance.
Yeah, but it seriously is like it's either the second band or the fourth band.
I posted a graphic in the chat.
No, no.
I got I got I see the graphic just because it's not your fault.
It's definitely my fault.
Okay.
That last one is Venus flytrap is on limitless.
Never noticed that.
Did you ever watch WKRP in Cincinnati?
No, no idea what you're talking about.
Is there a gray?
So this eBay link on the notes for HPR.
Yeah.
Under shipping it says does not ship to the United States on eBay.
Well, because I'm in Hawaii.
Last I checked this was the United States.
Oh, no accounting for eBay.
Could be gray.
That'll still be odd though.
Blue, gray, black, black, gold.
Gray would be eight.
Silver would be a tolerance.
Gold, silver, and none are torrents.
Six, eight, zero, sixty eight ohms.
Okay, let's check this.
Sixty eight ohms would be zero, six eight.
And the six eighty something.
Six, seven eight.
That would be very odd.
Six eighty ohms, the reckon is blue, gray, black, black.
Blue, gray, black, and another black.
Yep.
Six, eight, even.
Very good.
Let's see if there's any on this board.
Yeah, succeed.
Is that near the LCD?
Yeah, another on the on the pads going down to the.
Oh, maybe the power light.
Do you want to have actually?
Is I have a scan of this board?
Let me pop that up for you.
I can't see it on the listing.
No, I've got a good scan here that I actually put into this scanner
and edited and flipped the back of the board.
So it's mirror imaging.
Well, where did I put it?
That's the question.
Yeah, I found a hole up.
So Tony, are you going to on campus here?
Do we know where it is?
I've heard rumors that it's somewhere in the north east.
But there's nothing to confirm that yet.
Around the north east.
Liverpool-ish.
No, that's west.
That's true.
Think more Yorkshire area somewhere.
But I can't say any more than that because it was an unofficial hint.
But yes, I am planning to go with where I think it's going to be.
Is it easy to go to by playing?
Possibly, actually.
Yeah, from your neck and the woods.
It should be fairly easy to get to.
Is a regional airport over that way?
Okay, good to know.
So what about yourself?
You think you might make it over?
Well, I decided to give Foster a miss this year.
It's just too much work and I have too much stuff on with those weekends.
I need to check out secondary schools for my son and daughter.
So there's this open days all over the shop.
So not really not going to be able to get to it this year, unfortunately.
Right.
So that leaves me a whole year without seeing days of beautiful monkeys.
I can't possibly have that.
So you'll have to come over and set up the HPR stand.
And they have to do that.
I'm actually thinking of just not bothering into you and just sitting there.
That would be awesome.
You'll never, you'll never do it.
No, that's true.
You know too well.
You'll never do it.
As soon as you start seeing faces and go, I need them for the podcast.
Oh, that's cool.
That's cool for the podcast.
We had put in a thing into Foster,
actually, to do a podcasters table, you know,
a collaboration with all the open source,
podcasters, also people who are producing stuff on the commons,
like Edit Zero and the open metal cast and the love, you know,
the love bug.
Bug cast.
I mean, yeah.
But yeah, they were oversubscribed by 50%.
So Alas, in the case.
So I never, never came off.
No, we'll try again next year.
Try again next year.
Yeah.
Well, I'm, I'm trying to think of new shows for the coming years.
It's what I like to hear folks.
I was having to play with them,
Ubuntu without Unity the other day.
I've been realised how much I,
Unity and the known three are just the same, really.
So it's not a massive difference,
not, you know, getting rid of Unity and staying with known three.
And it just reiterated why I moved over to mate.
Uh, okay.
I don't know if you are still using Linux.
I switched to Fedora on a, I think,
three or four years, more probably five years ago.
Lord D says, yeah, well,
I was complaining about RPMs.
Yeah, well, have you tried it recently?
And then I said, actually, it's a good point to happen.
So then I tried it and I've been using kitty issues.
Most of the kitty desktop without all the kitty stuff turned out.
Right.
Yeah, kitty is quite mature, mature desktop now.
So I think it's getting back to the busy hands it used to have
before the, uh, KDE for so.
Yeah, that's the ask was not pleasant.
No.
Yeah.
The, uh, six, 80 or resistor from the luxuries going from the pin,
where you put in the component,
and then the trace goes back up to pin.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
fourteen of the, um,
at make it.
Okay. I'm going to continue on.
And is it the outcome doesn't how likely is it that we'll go ahead.
I've heard it's pretty good,
you know, pretty good possibility.
Um, I think John's breaks he's still involved with it.
And if John's got anything to do with it,
I'm pretty sure it'll, you know, carry on.
John, the nice guy springs.
Did you say pen fourteen on that?
Hat no?
Yeah, there's three of them there,
and it goes from pin one to our connection point one, two, and three.
It goes to a four, seven, zero, K resistor,
and then tease off to a six, 80 resistor,
which spans a gap, comes up through a via,
and then connects directly into the, um,
the Arduino.
14 to clock pin.
Okay, that's a bit odd.
Well, let me say one.
Yeah, because I flipped.
I put in a link to the, um,
to the PCB.
Uh, they're on the show.
Yeah, looking at that.
You don't have to trace it from the other side to figure out what's going where.
Yeah, but the other side is there.
So the second half is,
I'll now save it in landscape,
and then upload it again.
Yeah, I can see both of them.
Okay, if you flip it 90 degrees,
then you can see the, uh,
the bottom is, uh, one for one.
So the space, the whole spacing has been mirrored.
So you can see,
it makes it easier to trace.
So the, there are three, six, 80,
all resistors there.
And they go from,
let's say the one that connects to connection point one.
That goes down and then it comes up to what would be pin one to basically go straight across from wherever they are.
Yeah, well, that one goes down to the very bottom right hand pin on the same roll as pin one.
And then the next one goes straight across.
Yeah, all the other ones go straight across.
Fascinating stuff.
It's a bit like a Lego puzzle, puzzle lecture.
Yeah.
And yes, I am putting them all the same way.
Yeah, make sure you put those resistors in the correct direction.
Don't listen to them guys.
There are lots of people who wouldn't know that.
Researchers don't matter.
Some caps do.
Some caps don't.
Look for the plus or minus.
If you see that, it needs to go a direction.
This is awesome.
I am having an immense multiple.
Okay, I'm going to go for breakfast.
Tune in after breakfast for more exciting resistors.
We have one, two, three, four, five, six more of these.
Go through.
Yeah, obviously don't have to be involved in that process.
Okay, back in a bit.
Okay, who else is on here at the moment?
I'm on Gerrillo, too.
That's me.
Hi, Gerrilla.
Hello.
So apart from the scintillating talk through of Ken doing his soldering,
is there any other conversations going on at the moment?
Not for a while.
They were talking about a bunch of interesting stuff earlier.
Okay.
What's your interest?
I'm all over the place.
I do web development and manage a couple of servers,
and then I've been doing some 3D printing lately.
Also do some more do we know stuff?
And Amiga stuff?
And of course I was very pie.
There's that.
Pretty all good HPR material.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, Ken wants me to do a oscilloscope tutorial of some kind.
Yeah, that sounds like a good show, actually.
I'm a member of my local maker space here in Blackpool in the UK.
And we've got a 3D printer and a laser cutter,
and various other bits of kit that we need.
Well, we're in the process, or one of our members is in the process of building a CNC router.
And we 3D printed all the plastic parts for that.
Is that the NPC and C?
I couldn't tell you exactly what model it is.
A lot of the components came through either eBay or AliExpress,
but he's currently in the process of building the electronics side of it,
so I'll put the moment, the actual layout of the router is pretty well built.
Getting the control electronics all sorted at the moment.
I'm going to show with the pod nuts people called the makers with a Z.
Every other Friday or so, we get together and do a show,
but there's a lot of, I think three of the guys on that show are building this router called the NPC and C.
It's MP as a mostly printed CNC, so all the connectors are 3D printed.
So the corners and the pieces and the thing that holds the X and the Y and the Z.
Yeah, that's all 3D printed, and then you get your own router head.
And you know, Arduino electronics and stepper motors and all the little pieces and the wires and stuff and put it together.
But this one guy Chad has redesigned it in Fusion 360 to be a double rail.
So normally you have the, if you're using that electrical conduit metal pipe as your rails.
Yeah, he's put it together so that it doubles that.
So for the X and the Y, it's the same thing except doubled.
And so he's remade the 3D printed parts to have that double rail.
And of course you need to double the bearings and everything else.
But it's super, super solid according to his reports.
And it works so much better than the original.
I was going to say I give it a bit more rigidity, wouldn't it?
Yeah, super rigid.
And so he's been making clocks and stuff with that and selling them.
What?
Yeah, he takes like a disk of, you know, plywood wooden disk and, and carves, you know, some pattern in it.
So he'll do like a death star scene or a logo of some, you know, like cool or some beer company or somebody's, you know, business logo or whatever and then put a clock in the middle of it.
And then you put that on your wall and that's clock and he'll, he'll stain it.
So it's like a two tone relief of whatever your logo is on the background and then, you know, the numbers and stuff.
That's cool.
Yeah.
So he's working on, it's not done yet, but he's working on putting it together so that he can release it as a project.
So as kind of a, you know, click here to upgrade all your stuff.
But he's finalizing a couple of pieces, but he's been using it successfully and it's working for him.
So it looks like a good deal.
Yeah, we're currently in the process of thinking of ideas for the later cutter at the makerspace so that we can monitorize that a bit to generate a bit of cash to file the equipment and stuff and build up a supply components and that so that when we get new people come in who've got projects.
That we've got been full of stuff that we can just go along and pick stuff out of.
So how do you pay for the space now?
At the moment, we've got a core of about between five and 10 of us and we pay a little a couple of quite a session.
And then that covers the insurance and stuff like that.
At the moment, we haven't been using an awful lot of material and stuff.
So we're not, I mean, to worry about paying for stuff like that, but we're thinking about when people come to use the 3D printer and the laser cutter and things like that, they'll have to pay for materials and stuff to cover those costs.
Probably a little bit extra to cover the cost of electricity and stuff like that.
But yeah, we're a very small group. We meet in the basement of a local hotel.
One of our members is the proprietor of the hotel and he gave us the basement basically.
When we had something as finding a space that isn't expensive.
Yeah, so that was fortunate, but we're a little bit cramped, we could say.
But we started off as a Linux user group in the business of one of our members who was the local computer recycler company, kind of small social enterprise.
And we used to meet in his venue, but he retired a couple of years ago and the venue was sold off.
So we had to find a new home, but over the years we've morphed from just concentrating on the software side using opensource software, Linux, et cetera, to do more hardware stuff started off with a couple of members learning to program in Python and then starting to integrate that into showing the kids out to use Python and then the Raspberry Pi came along to looking at robots.
And stuff like that kids are interested in, so we've kind of morphed over the last few years.
So you have like a kids program over here. They have a thing called stem, which is, I don't know what the acronym is, but it's basically to get kids interested in science technology engineering and maths.
There you go. I'm actually a stem ambassador here in the UK.
We run a local Raspberry Jam and code it out here.
OK, yeah, one of the guys in my, we have a computer meter computer programmers meet up that we do every couple of Wednesdays and one of the guys runs the dojo at one of the schools.
Yeah, one of our members, you may have heard of him because he writes for various magazines, including Linux format, less pounder or big less P.
Yeah. And when when the Raspberry Pi first came out, we, that's at the, he started getting really big into that.
That's back in 2012 and we, we'd go all over the Northwest doing the Raspberry Pi events and stuff.
So we've got quite heavily involved in that because because it kind of fitted in with the Linux user group, because the Pi run on debut.
Or a heavily modified version of debut.
And then that was how we got involved with using the Pi and various things and kind of things have just cascaded from there.
Absolutely.
These are really got down.
It's, it's a Chinese ripoff. It cost us about 300 quid and it's technical place to get fully up and running because as a lot of these things that come over from China, they're great.
But when you start delving into them, some of the electronics and the safety features aren't quite as up to, shall we say European or American standards.
So that's 40 what blue box one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're on our second one of those.
Oh, yeah.
Then a nice little machine once you get them set up and, and you know, configured.
Very good.
Great.
I mean, what kinds of cool stuff are there things?
Yeah.
You've just got to know what you're talking about as far as safety goes and make sure that you can upgrade the safety features or the non-existent safety features.
Shall I say?
Yeah.
We've put a lid cut out switching it and various other things.
Don't we've upgraded the actual control control electronics as well?
That's, that's up and running.
Started doing a few, few cuts with that just before Christmas, made some Christmas balls.
Have you been able to get off of the Chinese software?
Yeah.
I think we're using, I'm not, I'm not 100% sure what the software is, but it's an open source.
There's a laser web for I think is out.
It's supposed to be pretty good.
Laser is the, yeah, the one who's been setting that up.
Like I say, we made a, we made a few balls with it just before Christmas.
But, like I say, plans are to start thinking about what we can make that's going to be a bit more useful and not.
Yeah, as long as you got good ventilation, you can do all kinds of really neat stuff within acrylic.
Yeah, that was one of the things we've got, we've got ventilation set up.
We've got ventilation vents to the outside, but one of the things we were finding,
depending where the laser head was, the internal, that little fan that sucks it into the ventilation,
wasn't strong enough to get rid of all the smoke.
So we've actually put a fan at the front end of the machine to push the smoke into the vent.
So the extractor fan can get hold of it a lot easier and get it into the vent tube.
One of the things that I've done is if you'll notice everywhere, there's a seam.
You should put some kind of tape or like a single-sided sticky foam into those little gaps.
And that will greatly improve the ventilation sucking.
So if you leave over the control board on the side, there's a couple of holes on that wall,
and then there's a hole into the main laser box, then there's the exhaust.
If you leave that passage open and seal everything else, you get a good air passage through there.
The other thing I did is I spent like 13 bucks on Amazon and it's used for like your washing machine dryer vent.
It's a secondary fan for that. So it's exactly the same size.
And so you put that in line with the other one.
So you get the crappy Chinese fan that is on the thing already.
But then you get this like 12 volt.
It's actually 120 volt, but I think the fan is actually 12 volt in line secondary fan that you can put kind of towards the exit.
And it'll suck three times harder to get all that stuff out.
And as long as you've got everything else in the box sealed, the laser compartment underneath, there's some holes around the lid,
all those little spaces you see.
One, you can keep the bad vaporized stuff from getting into the space you breathe.
Yeah, that's been one of our problems.
And the air flow is just so much better.
Right.
Oh, I'll have a look at that next time I'm there.
I mentioned it to Les as well.
You see, see whether we can do something about taping up those gaps.
It can just blue painter's tape or work.
Yeah, just something sticky that doesn't come off.
Yeah, the kind of stuff you put on the bed of a 3D printer.
That kind of stuff, masking tape.
You don't need silver tape except for maybe the fan ducts, but you want a machine itself.
Whatever tape you got is fine.
All right.
That sounds like a good idea.
You don't realise how many gaps are in these things because it's only folded press steel, isn't it?
And the connections where it all joins together won't be the brilliance.
So now make sense of these gaps in it.
Well, then every one of those doors has a spring loaded hinge that you can just take all those doors completely off.
And there's a quarter inch gap almost all around every door.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And you don't ever need to get into the control box area.
The only thing you need to get into is where you access the material.
You know, you can seal up the laser tube and everything and not have a problem.
Right.
That sounds right.
Yeah.
Oh, thanks for that.
So whereabouts in the States are you?
Hawaii.
Oh, right.
Do you have a link to that discussion, by the way?
A link to that discussion?
Yeah, it's HPR New Year's episode 32.
Wow.
Welcome back, kid.
Was it 3D printers?
A lot.
And now we're talking about that particular link to one.
So we know what we're talking about.
It's the K40 Chinese one everybody has.
Except me, apparently.
Shall I put the K40 days ago to how to engrave instructions thing in?
Well, you got to get the laser cutter first.
I don't even know where I'm looking.
I'm looking at the link.
It's telling me all the parts, but not the main box.
I've got a link here on eBay.
Other $120 for the rotary cutter.
That's worth about $10.
That's okay.
Paste that link at least into the show notes.
So, you know, are into the mobile chat.
$10.30.
Done.
Where about?
I'm not in the one.
Don't see it.
It's just I've just pasted it in on the York.
Can suggest the show on bits.
Go.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, we've moved on.
But I thought it was still between 10 and 11.
Actually, that's a good point.
Right.
These are the colors that are there fun.
It can be very, very much fun and also very useful.
If you look at the number of possibly pie cases made out of later cut acrylic and various other cases and things.
But I was watching a video over an actual 3D printer and some of the 3D printer sides are actually made from later acrylic.
It's not the best material in the world.
It tends to fracture, but it doesn't.
You have to readjust them all the time because they vibrate apart.
But I'm trying to think of the 3D printer we had at the make space that was the size of a later cut acrylic.
Yeah, you definitely have to dial them in.
Do you guys have a thermal paper?
Like you go to the grocery store or whatever and they print your receipt and it's on thermal paper, not printed paper.
I haven't got any thermal paper.
I worked on the early zebra printers.
There's lots of that stuff here.
So you can take that's the best paper to test your razor width.
So you put that in front of the lens hole and you can line up your mirrors that way.
It's really good idea.
And it's free.
Unless you're buying TV or something.
33K.
Now actually 3.3.
That'd be written 3K3.
Yeah, you'll see voltage written that way too.
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