hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr3262.txt

Episode: 3262
Title: HPR3262: My thoughts on diversity in Linux and open source
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3262/hpr3262.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 19:52:48

---

This is Hacker Public Radio episode 3262.4.
You may be the second on February 2021.
Today's show is entitled, My Thoughts on Diversity in Linux and Open Source.
It is hosted by Swift 110 and is about 34 minutes long and carrying a clean flag.
The summary is, I give some of my background stories and certain frustrations I have experienced in life.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by an Honesthost.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15.
That's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at An Honesthost.com.
Hello, this is Swift 110.
I'm going to talk very frankly about a very important issue that's come up recently.
Actually, it's come up multiple times over the years and pretty much this is going to be a follow-up to what I was talking about when it comes to being inclusive within the Linux and Open Source community.
Now, I mentioned before that it was a combination of factors that are the reason for their being such a lack of diversity within the Linux and Open Source community.
In order to really get the point across, I'm going to have to tell you stories of my youth and it gives you a background as to why I feel so strongly about what I'm talking about.
So, my story goes back to the early 90s, really the late 80s, early 90s.
Actually, you know what? Let's go back way back in time.
My family, on my grandmother's side, there are individuals that are mostly educated.
They own land, they own their houses, you know, these were black people that had education.
And they are originally from the Eastern Shore of Maryland, which if you know anything about the Eastern Shore back in the 50s and before, it would have been very similar to the Deep South.
You might as well have been down south if you're from the Eastern Shore of Maryland.
Now, they lived in their own community called Unionville, which is near Pokemon City.
And that's how they were able to kind of stay away from drama as much as possible.
But these ones managed to be successful people and I've traced my family.
The earliest person I could find was born in 1818.
And what I found consistent was people who could read, people who owned their own homes, people who worked and took care of their families.
They did what they needed to do, much like any other American family.
The difference is they were black.
These ones managed to eat out, but appears to be a decent existence despite rampant segregation within their community.
They learned how to get along.
They learned how to live.
And I'm so proud of that.
On the other side, on my grandfather's side, my maternal grandfather, his family hails from South Central Virginia,
and they originally were sharecroppers.
They would grow tobacco, wheat, and other crops and bring them to market.
And that's what they did.
My grandfather grew up picking tobacco and made a decision one day,
sometime in the early to mid-60s, 1960s, that he was going to leave that environment and come to DC.
Now, when he came to DC, and I'm going to edit what he said just a little bit for the sake of not offending people,
his first job in DC was as a cook at the Willard Hotel from a little person.
It was a little person that gave him that job in the 60s.
And this country boy, with limited education,
and possibly even a learning disability,
but yet he was able to come to a big city and eke out an existence for himself.
He was in a whole different world with no relatives or friends to guide him at all.
And he was able to make it as part of that great migration
where black people moved from the south to the northern, more northern cities
between 1915 and 1970. He was a part of that.
And I'm proud of what he was able to accomplish.
But the reason he was able to accomplish as much in his life, raising his children,
taking care of me as his own son,
was because he dared to be different.
He could have just picked tobacco and stayed in that agricultural environment.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
But he wanted something different.
In some ways, he wanted something better for himself.
And he got the money from his grandmother or grandfather and came on up to DC.
That's a wonderful accomplishment.
To enter a world that's completely foreign and to be brave.
To not care about what people look like around you,
but to be about your business.
You know, it was sometime in the mid 60s that he met my grandmother.
They got married.
And before long, they had a daughter who was my mother.
Two people from very different backgrounds.
But they came together and made a family.
That's a beautiful thing.
So now we fast forward.
Education has always been encouraged in my family.
There's nobody in my family that lives that quote-unquote hood life.
You're not going to find any of my family members on the corner selling drugs
or involved in a drug trade at all.
We don't do that.
And I'm proud of it.
Other people have a different background.
And it's not to demean anybody.
But I don't have that background and I'm happy
because it makes it easier in some ways for me to live my life as it is right now.
It's open up doors for opportunities that I wouldn't even know existed
had I been born under different conditions.
And so we fast forward not only to my birth, but going to school.
Reading was very important for me to learn very early.
I learned early how to read, how to talk.
We didn't talk slang in the house.
I know slang from these, I know DC slang now.
But we didn't speak that way.
My grandmother insisted, yes, no, not here.
Now she does that's not what you did.
You speak properly.
You know, there's just an order that I was able to learn from my dear grandparents.
Thank God for them.
Interesting people with their faults like everyone else.
But the things that they were good at, my goodness, they were good at.
And so it brings me to being through kindergarten elementary school.
I was always that kid that would finish his work before everyone else.
I was that kid that was reading an addiction area and Ranger Rick magazines
and national geographics because I'd be bored to tears.
While the other kids who were mostly Hispanic,
were taking longer to get their work done.
Now that's interesting because at the time,
there were a number of people moving to the DC area from El Salvador.
And other countries in South America, I mean Central America due to
wars in El Salvador in particular.
I mean, it was a lot of violence.
People were leaving to try to make a better life for their families in the United States.
And I'm glad to have known these people.
It was awesome.
The kids that went to my elementary school initially were either black or Spanish.
There were no white students.
There were no such thing as white kids at my school.
You were black or you were Spanish.
Eventually we did have in the fourth grade,
there were some kids from Vietnam that came a very small handful.
And we had a few kids from Somalia that came,
but a very small number.
And so you have a school.
I guess the best way to express myself would be that the school was people of color.
Now I can remember early as the first grade,
there were computers,
not in every class like there is now, but there were computers.
And I'm struggling.
Remember I was like six.
So I'm remembering a computer
that had those big floppy disks, the five and a quarter.
Floppy, oh god, I feel old now.
Yeah, we had to use that to load up a game and do little stuff with.
So there was an exposure to technology.
Around 1990, 1991, God, I feel old now.
Okay.
And that's that's how it was.
You know, if I went to the libraries early on,
there might be a library.
There's a computer in the children's section.
Maybe the adult section had one or two, but that was it.
You know, computers weren't the thing.
Years later, computers were everywhere.
In fact, I wrote a blog post about that.
That I'm going to actually put in my show notes
for this particular program.
But now as I get through elementary school.
And I enter middle school.
Yay, puberty.
I enter middle school.
Oh, Lord.
And I got made fun of nerd,
is what people will shout at me.
It was very much an insult at the time.
And it's largely because of that,
it those experiences that I named my telegram group
for the nerds,
that I named my IRC channel that's existed since 2013
for the nerds.
It's a way of uniting nerds,
geeks, people like that everywhere,
people involved in technology,
people that actually want to better themselves
and get along in the process,
learning, teaching.
You know, benefiting from one another.
That's what it's all about.
I won't do the hoki-poki, promise.
But that's been my view within those two areas.
Creating that community.
Where you wouldn't have to worry about being insulted
because you want to know,
you want to understand the world around you now.
Middle school.
I was short, skinny, with glasses.
Short, skinny, with glasses, and smart.
And I'm not quiet. I never have been quiet.
Boy, that's the heck of a combination
in the school that I went to.
Now, the school I went to was predominantly black.
There were no white kids going to my head school.
I promised you.
In fact, there were no such thing as white children
for a good way around that area.
It just wasn't.
Things are different now.
But in the late 90s, oh my God, there was no such thing.
You know.
And so this was an environment where
it's just like people all the time, everywhere.
You know, and so it's interesting having that background
in different places I lived.
And that's why the way things have progressed
in my life have been way different
than what you ever would imagine.
Because the things that I like doing
are not what people expect me to like doing.
I'll get to that in a second.
But my middle school experience was a horrible one.
You know, because there was always this undercurrent
of anti-education.
If you want to be smart, we hate you.
It's not just, oh, you're different.
Oh, that's your business.
No, we're going to actively make your life a living nightmare.
You know, it's it's almost like
in the Disney movie, Pocahontas,
where they sing that song savages.
You're different.
They're different from us, which means
they must be evil, let us sound the drums of war.
That was pretty much my experience in middle school.
Because I didn't fit in with the popular,
the dominant subculture that existed,
this anti-education.
If you sense a strong disdain for that subculture,
yeah, you got it right.
I hate that idea, not the people.
I hate that you look down at somebody
that wants to actually get an education and better themselves.
So they don't have to live in the quote unquote,
who?
I'm not glorifying drug abuse or being involved
in that kind of arena at all.
I never have, and I never will.
Despite being exposed to that environment,
having friends that lived in that kind of arena,
or at least new people that were.
You know, I come from an area where
there was kids still in cars at the age of 12,
dealing with bullies.
And I'm glad we were so young,
because it's before all the real violence really popped off
in that area.
Because that area that I hung out in,
that was a couple blocks from my house,
Langston Terrace, the oldest project in DC,
and maybe the United States, definitely DC.
Many of those young men,
and some of those young women are dead.
They were gone 10 years after,
they were gone less than 10 years after I left area in 1997,
1998.
Oh, 21st.
I don't expect you to understand that expression,
aw, 21st, but we used to yell it
when there was a local amusement park
that was show up at RFK Stadium.
We would get on that thing that is like cars
that kind of spin around, kind of go around in circles.
We'd raise our hands and go, aw, 21st.
You know, it was exciting.
That was fun.
It kind of brings back good memories thinking about that, actually.
But there just always been this strong,
disdain towards people that are interested in education.
There are always young people, especially young men,
that were just, just act the fool,
do things and draw attention to themselves.
And I understand that people can come from a broken background.
My God, I do.
But it's not an excuse to act like a buffoon everywhere you go.
Because when you act like a buffoon everywhere you go,
people don't want you around.
And then people start crying racism.
It's not racism. They just don't want to be around foolish people.
And you just happen to be black acting like a buffoon.
So when you see the music videos,
when you see what's playing on a radio,
it's easy to get an idea that that's just how these people are.
Because you don't normally see images of people of color
and the technology see that.
You don't normally see that.
People actually doing things that are good for other people and themselves.
There's this constant story of struggle.
This constant story of being held back by the white man.
Oh no, it's the white man.
He's holding me down.
He doesn't want me to succeed in life.
Well, the same person that I've heard say that,
in different, obviously in different ways.
And what I just said,
the data say ones that are poisoned in their community
that are involved in this alternative economy
that poisons and damages the communities.
You know, they make this statement that black lives matter.
If black lives matter,
then why are you killing them?
Why are you always...
Why is it so popular to be engaged in self-destructive behavior
that affects other black people?
Why aren't you looking out for your brother, man?
Why aren't you defending your community?
Rather than encouraging people to come into it that are hateful
and that only wish to profit from it,
to buy non-essential items
and stay in that same crappy hole for the next 20 years.
So until they're incarcerated or did,
whatever happens first.
See, that's the reality that I've been exposed to in my life.
And what I intend on doing is contacting the HBCUs,
the historically black universities in DCN in Baltimore, Maryland.
And I'm going to find out how many of them actually have courses pertaining
to Linux or Open Software in general.
And I'll compare that to the white schools.
And I'll come back to you and tell you what I come up with.
And so to get back to what the original comments was about,
there's a couple things that play here.
I was asked this question,
is it because there's a lack of interest in technology
or lack of exposure to technology?
And it's both.
In my world and from what I've been exposed to in life,
black people are just not or people of color in general
are not exposed to the idea that you can do anything worthwhile.
That, you know, you have a role in society.
And that is what you do and you will never get past it.
That's a summary of what I get overall.
There's this general depression within the community
that I think holds people back from accomplishing a lot more in your life
than they ever, than they would otherwise.
It's holding people back.
And I hate that idea.
I hate the idea of being a software of stinking thinking.
And I understand that it's not always that person's fault.
When you grow up in an environment,
or you're not taught to be anything,
that idea can just be something that doesn't come up.
You know, why didn't know I could do that?
The concept was never exposed to it.
You were never exposed to it.
So it's a combination indeed looking at my notes of exposure
and of interest because to be interested in technology,
means you're trying to be like white people.
And then you have people that are trying to do better,
and I experienced this growing up a lot,
is that when you try to do better,
you get that crabs in a basket analogy.
They start hating on you.
You think you better than us.
And they start calling you different.
And people in times past would have called you different types of uncles.
You know, but nowadays they'll just call you other words.
That are just as bad, just as offensive.
I'll leave that there.
But it's looked down upon to be that person that there is to be different.
I'm a black guy.
And I love gardening.
I love Linux and open source.
I love writing my bicycles.
I have no interest in football.
I have no interest in basketball.
What, so ever.
And for our folks that are not from the United States,
I have no interest in football.
Or otherwise, no one is soccer either.
I have no interest in any of those organized sports whatsoever.
I'm happy writing my bike.
I wouldn't mind playing badminton.
You see why I stick out so much.
I'd rather go roller skating or hiking than go clubbing.
And so just naturally I break virtually every stereotype
that people have about black people or people of color in general.
And I'm happy about that.
I'm proud of that.
But I guess going back to the bravery exhibited by my grandfather,
perhaps I have inherited that trait from him.
Honestly, when I get into an environment,
just like when I was working at our rhythm a few years ago,
in a city that 60 percent black
and an older white lady had to be in her 60s or 70s,
asked me what it was I doing there.
And you could take that negative.
Like, oh my god, this black guy is here.
Why are you here?
You don't belong.
You know, it's almost like I don't belong there.
And I can see how a person could feel uncomfortable
when you have people approach them like that.
But when it comes to the internet,
whether it's telegram IRC,
nobody can see you.
So unless somebody says they're black somehow,
you wouldn't know they're black.
There's people that I've talked to on IRC since 2013.
That have no idea what I look like.
And don't care.
Because it doesn't matter.
You know, the internet offers you that kind of level.
And so when it comes to being inclusive
within online communities,
when it comes to this discrimination
or people looking at you funny,
if anything, it's an advantage.
Because they can't see you.
And if you're doing text information,
they can't hear you either.
So they can't try to guess who or what you are
by your accent and how you talk.
You know, so that's a factor as well.
You know, but a lot of the reasons that
you don't hear about open source and Linux in general
is because Microsoft and Apple
are so dog on good at advertising.
They got money.
They use it to advertise.
Advertise and advertise what they offer.
They can give you absolute crap
and people will still buy it.
They can do things that make
their machines hard to repair
and people will still buy them.
Because they're shiny.
They're pretty.
They don't care about the utilitarian
about it being, you know, usable.
They just want to look pretty.
They want to fit in with their peers.
See, if I come in there with this black box,
think pad.
Oh, God.
He must be poor.
But if I come in with this shiny Mac,
I'll give you an example.
I come in there with my T420 thing
pad in a coffee shop.
There's a difference between me bringing
that machine in versus my MacBook
that's from 2010.
Now, the T420 is way better
specced than the MacBook.
Because MacBooks, you know,
Accord to do well.
CPU.
It has 16 gigs of RAM,
which is the same as the T420,
but the processor is much slower.
But even if this thing pad was souped up,
even if it had 64 gigs of RAM
compared to the 16 in this and his MacBook,
they wouldn't care.
All they know is shiny, pretty.
A black box that looks ordinary and plain.
You see what I mean?
People have ways of looking for reasons
to put you on a box.
And my advice is to break out of that box.
Don't worry about being the minority.
And in any given environment,
who cares?
Don't worry about being popular.
Think about what you can learn
from those people you're around
that's going to help you get where you want to get in life.
And who knows,
maybe someone else will see you.
And they'll want to join in too.
And then maybe someone will see y'all.
And then they'll join in too.
But somebody's got to get started.
There had to be a brave black person
or a person of color to get into
the world of Major League Baseball.
Track and field.
There had to be those pioneers
that got involved in these things.
That had to get involved
in professional football and basketball.
Now those sports are full of people of color.
Ain't that nice?
Definitely diversity, for sure.
And so I'm going to end this by saying
that if we want there to be more diversity
in technology, open source, Linux, whatever,
we have to reach,
you know what, I can do this better.
How do I reach these kids?
That was a poor imitation
of the pot reference I was making.
But we have to.
Because I believe the children know our future.
Teach them well and let them lead the way.
And I promise you I'm done with that.
But focus on the children.
Teach them that being different
isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Don't focus on the differences.
Focus more positively on what you have in common.
There's a common goal.
So I don't care if you're lime green with polka dots.
I don't care if you're great.
It don't matter.
Focus on what you're trying to do
and not on a people around you.
The only way that those people around you
really matter is if they're trying to harm you
or something or they're insulting you
making you feel bad.
Other than that, don't worry about it.
Get what you need to get.
And benefit.
Don't worry about trying to fit in.
Just be you.
Someone is bound to appreciate that.
And by doing so, things will get better.
Thank you for hearing me out.
And I hope you all have a fantastic day.
This has been Swift 110.
And I'll see you later.
You've been listening to Heca Public Radio at Heca Public Radio.
We are a community podcast network
that releases shows every weekday, Monday through Friday.
Today's show, like all our shows,
was contributed by an HPR listener like yourself.
If you ever thought of recording a podcast
and click on our contributing
to find out how easy it really is.
Heca Public Radio was founded by the digital dog pound
and the Infonomicon Computer Club.
And it's part of the binary revolution at binrev.com.
If you have comments on today's show,
please email the host directly.
Leave a comment on the website
or record a follow-up episode yourself.
Unless otherwise stated,
today's show is released on the creative comments,
attribution, share a life, 3.0 license.