hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr0894.txt

Episode: 894
Title: HPR0894: 2011-2012 Hacker Public Radio New Year's Eve Part 4/8 (Mrs Corenominal brings the naughty)
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0894/hpr0894.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-08 04:26:15

---


Okay. Can you want to talk about accessibility? Yes, I did. Yes. Accessibility. I would like
people to, you know, the syndication Thursday thing that we do. I would like people to, if
you go to a show or something or a links fest or something and you see a presentation that
you like, as you're watching it or afterwards, if you could make a note of the particular
times a presenter did something on the screen that wasn't obvious in audio so that we can put
those on HPR as augmented podcasts. So, for example, if somebody, there was a very good example
of that was the image editing presentation at Alcamp and his first five minutes of his presentation,
which is very good, is I am this. I was that until this happened and then I got caught by them
and, you know, in the background there were pictures of, this is a picture of a hacker,
a particular picture of a policeman. So, we'd like to be able to make our shows more accessible
to people with visual impairment, obviously. But I was also trying to think of how to make our
shows more accessible to people with who are deaf by doing some sort of text to speech and if
people have ideas about that, I'd appreciate to hear them proprietary or open source. I'm open
to anything. You mean speech to text? That's exactly what I mean. Excuse me, that's exactly what I mean.
But on the side note, if somebody who doesn't want to come on to HPR or is not, is uncomfortable
for reason of language or reason of speech impairment or any other impediment where there would be
reluctant to speak something on the show. If they want to prepare a script, that we will either do
text speech on or we'll have somebody narrate it for you, that is absolutely an option. So, please
don't let that stop you Smith in the show. That's a great idea Ken. I've never thought of that and
I would like to volunteer to narrate stuff that people send in if they can't actually, yeah,
if they're not comfortable with their spoken abilities. And I would like to second that, I have
no problem doing that either. Yeah, I mean either. I don't think there's going to be any shortage of
people who would be opposed to reading a script. Cartoon though, I don't think you could sound
anything like made up. There's nothing wrong with you art. Well, actually there's a little
just turn up the base. Yeah, I'll just turn up the base and yeah, I can do it.
You know what I'm going to say, I could possibly do that as well. Any time I've tried actually read
from a script, I just, for some reason, I struggle unless I'm actually just off the cuff. I don't
know what it is. So if I can get over that, then I'll help with that as well. Yeah, no question.
Scripts are difficult to manage because you always sound like you're reading from a script, but
it's a good idea if someone can't say it for themselves. Then yeah, totally, it's a good idea.
I haven't had a call yet, you know, on that too though. Go ahead. That would be a good time for
somebody to get together with another person and do it as like not an interview, but as like
just the talking session. You mean if someone can't organize their thoughts enough to get an
episode out? Is that what you mean? Yeah, I mean if you're talking, somebody can write a script
and they should be able to talk to somebody else about it. Not if they can't physically speak,
though, you know, I mean that's what I think that's what Ken was talking about,
is someone who has an issue that they can't, I don't know, whatever. A stutter that won't go away
or if they're deaf and they might not speak, they might not actually be, they might not be
using their vocal cords. They might not have vocal cords if they had surgery. Or perhaps
English isn't your first language in your own comfortable. Yeah, I think also for the first
couple of times, I would probably want to present with someone because then if there is an awkward pause,
you know, you stop speaking, there's someone else then to fill the gap. Well, some people as well
who aren't really, they're not technically in mind either enough to set up a mic or either
that, I don't have a quite enough area that they can do it without screaming kids in the background
and how these TV or whatever, you know, so they may not even be that practical from it,
to actually send a card. There's always a thread, man. Yeah, as far as that goes, I mean, that's
a kind of thing where I'm going to have to sound maybe a little harsh and just say, you know,
please get over that because you can record into a cell phone, into an MV3 player, anything,
and yeah, you can go in the bathroom, you can go to the park and have the birds chirping and the
background is always cool. You know what I mean? Like setting up a computer to do it should not
have to be the barrier to entry. I mean, at the very least, we have the call-in lines for exactly
that. Yeah, see there's that, but I don't know if I'm using the mic on my laptop right now.
To be honest, I think one of my biggest barriers to entry would be choosing a topic of
I think more than a technical reason. Sorry. No, the other thing I was thinking about there was
in the background, if there's something like MP3, MP3, MTV playing away in the background,
if I were you recording and you can clearly hear, I don't know, Britney Spears or something in the
background of someone talking. I mean, what about copyright issues there? Yeah, there is that.
That's a good point, but I think at some point, you know, who cares a whole lot if it's for the
copyright thing. I mean, you're not intentionally redistributing that, so that that would be okay,
but I mean, yeah, you can go into the bathroom to block out MTV or to the park or if you live in a
city, go in the roof of your building or something like that. And to what Cornomial was saying,
picking a topic, I have found that for me and for some other people that I've talked to,
the best topic that you can do is something that you're excited about and grab it,
you know, strike while the iron's hot. If you're doing something and you're excited about it,
you're jazzed about it, go ahead and record that while it's still fresh, even if you're not an
expert on it, even if you don't think you're ready to do it, you can always do a follow-up or
somebody else can do a follow-up. I think that's for me anyway the best way to pick a topic like that.
And also, if you think of topics that you'd like to hear on HPR, please email,
add me in the hackerpublicradio.org and we'll put them on our requested topics page.
Yep, which is hackerpublicradio.org slash is it contribute, I think, and it's about halfway
down the page. Yeah, that's one. We'll probably put that on to a dedicated section.
I would personally, the one of the things that I really like about everything, if you just
go ahead over. We've got a bit of a lag here, obviously. Now, maybe it's a British thing,
but every time I hear the word topic, I think of a chocolate bar, maybe it's just me.
It's just you. I've got no point of reference for that.
The topic in the UK, a topic is like a chocolate bar like a Snickers or something like that.
Oh, I had no idea. We could, we could say a subject, if you like.
God, that sounds royal.
This is what you are not held in conversation.
Bye bye. I'll stay back.
But anyway, I found Becky, phenomenal, that once you start doing this, everything starts looking like
a HPR topic and there are people around you who are people who are going to be interviewed on
your HPR episode or who have some interesting topic that you can, or subject, that you can
turn into a show at some stage. It's amazing. Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm not suitable for
work-play with podcasting because I do sometimes get a bit carried away in your naughty slips out.
This HPR, we have an expensive tag on iTunes. Yeah, there's no, on HPR, there's no, there's no
barring of that language at all. Although I do like polkies, this may not be suitable for
rock, blah, blah, if you want to put that in the front. I don't know that. I've been, I've been
really careful not to swear around. I didn't know that. Now that I do, I'd like to tell you how
I really feel. I guess no one here has listened to, what was it episode 69 of Hacker Public Radio?
Well, I would have to be episode number 69, wouldn't it? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the one.
Yeah, I don't recall. I'm sure I listened, but I don't recall. You probably, Pokey, I couldn't
even get through that one. I literally, and I'm not really that squeamish, but that was too much for
me. You know, I'm a fantastic number, but the view is awful. I disagree. Oh, shocking.
Okay. At that point, that would be, couldn't it, the court file of Jack Ars?
So we'll make a note that at 24 minutes into the, what is this, the sixth hour that this is
the naughty segment. Yeah, this is when they discovered that there were no, there was no censorship
on the show. But that episode was actually interesting because the, the whole topic was that
the adult industry fuels the internet, and it does. It did back then, and that's still those right now.
I don't know. I'm, I'm not so sure about that. I'm sorry, but I'm just not sure about it.
Yeah, I've never really made that gaming, maybe, but I really don't know about that adult
industry fueling anything, to be honest. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, it may, it may have
fueled the, the choice for VHS over beta max, but I mean, I think that was so long ago.
I would beg to differ to everybody. My friend, Bob, is a very, very good authority. That's
that is the case. Bob living up there. So, so Bob serves Prawn all the time. It's significant
portion of any ISPs business is based on the back of the adult industry. Yeah, no doubt. It
certainly is, but how much of that is, I'm going to say unfairly weighted because of the sheer
bandwidth that video takes up as opposed to, you know, other topics where people might not, they
might not care whether they're watching video or not. Yeah, just because it's because it's
there and people are downloading, it doesn't mean that if it wasn't there, people would be using
the internet. Well, the other thing to think about there is that if you go and watch say a half
TV show on YouTube, you're watching that for the full half hour. If you're watching porn,
then that's not porn for. I'm not going to be watching for that long. And usually when you finish,
you stop. You speak PSL. I'm not like porn to have a good story. What are you doing?
That's not okay. It's not porn, it's art. Yes. That's the way, but you're saying that it only
lasts about five minutes, is that what you're saying? Hey, at first of the five minutes, I just
said it doesn't take off an hour. Again, speak for yourself. Oh, what are you doing with that?
There it is. The other thing here is when, when all the, the rush to H.D., I mean, who really wants H.D.
porn? 3-D porn on the other hand. 3-D as in 3-D dwarfs. Or is that too too explicit? No, 3-D as in
3-dimensional, especially if you take into account that's things of closer look a lot bigger.
See, when we get to this subject, this is where the people who are, you know, think that
the future is going to be a dystopian future really win because in a lot of those books, they had
the feelies and not just the movies. Did I miss the dirty segment? No, you're not going to bring
dirty right now, bro. Right here. Hell yes. However, I do have to go up what Becky has says,
that's when Bob was deploying something to hotels. The study showed that the subscription to
certain channels was probably minutes for some guests and a lot longer for other guests,
depending on their gender. Depending on whether or not they fell asleep after? No, we're talking
about, and so about subscriptions to certain channels on, on certain channels on certain. Yeah,
yeah, I know. You can talk dirty now, Ken. We'll put the tag on this section. Well, I'm actually
more worried about not seeing anything that I'm going to love to say. Yeah, we don't know Bob,
that's okay. Are these the ones that you join one-handed? I think that's the idea, yeah.
You know, there's something in the latest Linux outlets that I've lost into the podcast,
and some comment in IRC, we're going to say about the Pornfield or Sianica, and someone in the IRC
pointed out, well, that was probably the change, the buttons to the outside. That was a good one.
You guys are putting me in a strange position. Oh, your kids near the speakers? No, no, nothing like
that. The opposite, you know, I work construction, you know, so 90% of my day is dirty words and
unfriendly type of things, but I've never done that podcasting. I've always tried to be a rather
nice guy out of my podcast, but now you guys are tempting me. Well, I do know of a construction
company near where I live called erection perfection. Every time I get an erection, it's perfection.
Okay, I would also like to point out that as we did, yes, we did have episode 69, but I would also
advise, yes, people should go and listen to episode 69, but they should also then go and listen to
episode 586, which is a cyclops episode on the internet, it's for Porn, with a discussion
about the other side, basically, it's well worth the listen. The other side, live after the great
division, no more like about, yes, the internet is for Porn, ha ha ha, let's see, that's what she said
in all the rest of it, but more about that every person out there is a human being and some,
you know, somebody's daughter or so, and yeah, makes you think about the other side of it.
Yes, episode 69 does say that it does feel poor, does fuel development, does fuel
technology in all the rest, but then episode 586 does say that, yes, but there's a price to pay
socially or morally for that, and yeah, just balances it out, which is not the thing I like about
HPR, that's somebody can do a show, somebody else can do a counter show, it's a good thing.
You know, I wonder actually if the next phase of development on the internet is going to be triggered
by SOPA, and that when it becomes easy and legal, for the governments to just censor the internet,
there's going to be a huge boom in industries and technologies to get around that, I mean, you can
already do that in mafia fire and all that. I wonder if that's going to be the next, just to
turn all these different tools and VPNs and all that to the normal people rather than just the geeks.
I wonder if that's going to be the next boom area on the internet fueled by SOPA.
Well, it's obviously going to be like any legislation against something that somebody wants more
than, you know, the people who are going to be disadvantaged by SOPA aren't going to be the
people that are downloading things illegally, they're going to work around it, it'll take them a day,
two days maybe, it'll be the little old ladies who want to visit a site that was taken down for
some ridiculous reason, the people who don't go out and see how to get around these things,
but the people they're going after will be around it by the end of the day, you know.
Absolutely, the internet will route around your center.
No, sorry, CMSA CD there. Well, what I was going to say is if you read the, what is it,
the Linux lock, where the guy from the Phoenix project, the Helios project talks about his
adventures and support and get this CD play. So she ended up becoming like somebody who learned
all the technologies just to get around the fact that her granddaughter copied a CD for it,
wouldn't play. Yeah, I mean, on the last, I mentioned about, I thought that things like SOPA,
it was basically like evolution, like war, where evolution says, if one, I mean Australia was,
you know, the real life in Australia is a lot of venomous and poisonous and whatever,
all of that was, they were all, they were all evolved because something else in their environment
was stronger than they were or more venomous of whatever than they were. So it's a constant,
one evolves to meet the other. Sorry, dude, I interrupted you trying to get a message
there from my bed. Yeah, the text messages getting me too. Yeah, it's just that delay thing
that's happening again. Yeah, sorry about that. I just, I just sort of spotted the story where I
kind of realised I was stepping over you there, my bad. Yeah, it's like one side does something
and then the other side evolves to meet that encounter it. Evolution was like that. Everything
evolves like that to meet its adversaries, its prey and its hunted and all that's kind of
stuff. And wars the same thing when one side invents one thing, the other side invents something
counter it. So it's going to be the exact same thing when the powers that be and then create
legislation to do one thing, then the people who can will jump in and invent ways to get around
about it and they'll make it more available and it's just a constant carton mouse thing.
So do you think it's a good thing as in terms of creating new technologies to circumvent,
you know, these wars, the governments and stuff are putting up. I do not.
For me, depends on where the honesty is in the system because the governments are never going
to be honest when they're controlled by corporations, they're never going to be honest.
So in the never going to do things with the right intentions and with fairness and with
transparency and all that, they're never going to do that. So well, that's the situation and then
yeah, damn right, what you're realing about them. It's like who watches the watchers?
But to be fair, the governments don't really understand, so that makes them nervous.
Of course, true. I mean, when governments, when politicians can't be expected to know everything,
and that's why they call on different advisors when they're looking at something,
the call upon different advisors. And at the moment, all they get is advisors from the various
industries who profit from it and they've got their own agenda to push and they tell the story
from their particular point of view and phrase it in such a way that changes they would like to see
that only benefit them. What I'd like to see as a solution is a mesh networks. I've thought
that for a long time that an ISP is where, you know, an ISP basically to me seems like an error in
the network. It's a single choke point. It's a bad thing for the internet and that the best thing
would be to just ride around that and start moving to mesh networks. Agreed.
Yeah, I think there's a lot more. Agreed. I think there's a lot more choke points on the
internet than people actually realize until they start to happen home. One is an easy sort of
payment system worldwide and really the only game in town really is PayPal. And then when people
start realizing, oh, PayPal are jumping whenever the various senators give them a call,
then when you find something other than PayPal, what else is there? Oh, you're sort of struggling
there because I think people don't really realize just how many choke points there are.
So if we're talking about a mesh network, can that actually work? Yes. Did anyone see the
article from the Chaos Computer Club where they're trying to put up their own satellite system?
I did. I was going to bring that up actually. And it's not there yet, but right there it could be
an independently operated, independently managed network of satellites providing bandwidth to anybody
who wants it. It brings up the point that we've seen with DIY sites. There's a huge boom in
hacker spaces and those kinds of things and then instructables and where it isn't just hardcore
hackers anymore that are trying to build stuff. It's everybody from somebody who wants to make
their own iPad stand or building their own rockets, launching satellites and outries and
that the internet's ability to... I guess it's not necessarily advancing science
in the premium of science, but in making it more accessible, things like launching a satellite or
maybe not necessarily space travel, but things that used to be out of the reach of people.
I think my kids are dumping marbles on my floor above, so sorry about that. But I think the DIY
movement in and of itself means that things like this, the rocket tree will advance enough
and computer controls will advance enough that comes kind of... kind of who cares what the
government says? Even if it is illegal, I mean, what are they going to do? Go around to everybody
and shut down their router? Do you not think we're at that point already? Yeah, they'll just
drone you, man. If they'll just send some unmanned aircraft and just knock whatever you've got down.
Yeah, but the thing is, what they're looking about is having a GSM-type network up in the sky.
I'm not necessarily saying this that fast, but if you look at the iridium network, which is,
you know, if you think of a traditional GSM network where you're on a train and you're going from
one cell to the next cell to the next cell in an iridium network, it's pretty much the same thing
on your stationery and the cell network is moving as you go around. What the thing about that is,
is incredibly expensive to operate and incredibly expensive to manage. But if they can get this thing
of where it's achievable to get a small maybe half kilo satellite, micro satellite up into the sky,
get enough of them up there and that command and control is running, working feasibly.
Then you can have these things bouncing off from your internet connection up to that thing,
relaying to the next satellite, to the next one, to the next one, to the next one, and then back
down somewhere else. And because its space is known, it can't be owned by anybody internationally.
That's a complete network that you can use right above you on a few kilometers away.
Let's put it on.
Part of my thinking though, oh go ahead, let me hear what you have to say.
I was going to say that the internet's kind of like drugs. No matter how much effort you put
into making drugs illegal, no matter how much money you spend to prevent drugs, people love drugs.
And they're going to get it anyway that they can. And the more you try to clamp down on the internet,
the fact is the technology exists in every router to create a mesh network.
And at some point it becomes just too good. Everybody wants access to the internet.
And if you shut down the internet, the government can send it one drone.
But could they send a billion drones? How many people are in the internet right now?
It'll be like them trying to control the time.
Right.
Yeah, that's the point.
Let's not forget that most governments are pretty incompetent.
I don't think we've got much to worry about.
For some reason, I could just picture when you said, then on that as like drugs,
I could just picture Mr. Garrison from South Park working for the RIAA saying,
I'm not Mr. Garrison, the psychiatrist.
Now drugs, drugs are bad and good. Mr. Mikey, good.
Yeah, yeah, you may have just sunk our entire cause with that statement.
The drugs are good.
Well, that one's good.
I'm not advocating drugs, just people love them.
The internet is like drugs in any way.
You've just turned off a half a billion people.
No, they're not.
No, the point is well made.
The point is well made.
I mean, Pythman is correct.
They can try to clamp down on the internet all they want.
It doesn't really matter.
More so, I think, for the people in this call right now and people like us,
who actually even know what a mesh network is,
you know, I mean, there are people who don't even understand,
I mean, the internet to so many people is Facebook, you know.
I mean, there's just so many other ways to connect with with each other than,
then, you know, Facebook.
There's just not going to be a way for them to just to shut down the internet.
There's too many too much technology out there at this point and it will spread
and it's not going to be something that a government can control.
Because like Coronomil says,
the government's certain competence anyway, so it doesn't matter.
And the point about it is that people already know what they can do with the internet,
so it's a lot more difficult taking something away once people know what they can do with it.
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what a lot of people know what they can do with the internet.
We know what we can do with the internet, but my grandma has no idea.
Well, we're a lot of people.
We're anonymous. We're legion, right?
I don't believe we are.
I don't believe I'm anonymous.
Bob, of course, is.
But the point to remember is if suddenly Facebook is taking off line tomorrow,
a lot of people will be annoyed about that.
Yeah, I think the idea that we are a lot of people over people in the internet who are outraged
that go there, these position and so far all wanting to pull away.
And it turned out that from what I can work out,
that they lost some users, but not that many.
I mean, it was a drop in the ocean, really.
It was a short-term thing as well.
So we are a minority. I'm afraid.
Yeah, I think we're not just a minority, but a vast, drastic minority.
If the internet somehow went away and we had to build a mesh network,
number one, we're talking wireless because we could not afford enough wires to connect to one
another, nor could we hide them in such a way that they'd be secure.
So we're talking about a wireless network.
And if I look around me where I live for people with the wherewithal and a reason
to connect a wireless network, a mesh network, I don't think I could hit any of them
with the amount of broadcast strength that's in my router.
I just, I don't see a thing like that happen.
I think at this point it's a dream.
Maybe in a generation.
Yeah, but Poki, what I'm just saying now is if that chaos computer club mesh network,
and that's if and the big knife killed the devil of my mother is very fond of saying that,
if you did have a mobile network that is not, it's right above you,
clear line of sight, and that you're going to be able to broadcast to this,
then you know, it's going to be only two kilometers away from you directly above,
and you'll be able to reach it with a low powered transmitter.
Then you have internet everywhere in the world.
But if they, but if they don't want you to have it,
there are few enough of us that would do that, that they would have no problem
triangulating those signals in a matter of days.
No, because those those things,
oops, sorry, lost my child's author.
Well, 20, 20 years ago, you wouldn't have said that a billion people are going to be on the internet, either.
You'd have said that's not ever going to happen.
Internet is only for DARPA or whatever in universities.
It'll never get big.
There's just not enough people out there with computers or the know how to get on online.
And even probably as recent as like, I don't know, maybe 10 years,
when people were doing like dial up or whatever, you'd probably still have thought,
yeah, this internet still, there's a big barrier to entry, you have to know,
all this stuff is just not going to happen.
But now everyone's on the internet, you know, I mean, it's something that's going to,
yeah, maybe if the internet went away today,
we wouldn't be ready with our mesh, magical mesh network to suddenly solve the problem.
But it's going to grow, you know, it's going to develop.
Yeah, I always like to take my analogies to their to their bitter conclusion.
So, I mean, I would say that, you know, certain drugs like methamphetamines or ecstasy
are really, really hard to make.
But, you know, at some point some dude can make it in a bathroom at the local target, you know,
people get that good at making things they really, really want.
The point is not everybody, not everybody that is a drug addict needs to know how to do that.
They just need to know somebody who does.
Okay.
That's to make that correlation.
It doesn't matter that there aren't that many people that know how to do it.
It's just that there are people everywhere that do know how to do it.
And those are the people that the people who really want to get on the internet are going to go to.
There aren't that many people using computers very well,
but they all have friends who know how to work them.
You know, I mean, that's where we come in, right?
Where the reason our family and friends even know how to get the Facebook in the first place.
It's a fair point, but where your drug analogy breaks down is that people aren't standing out in
the street screaming, I'm high and getting away with it.
If you're setting up a wireless mesh network, you're doing exactly that.
You were, you have a piece of equipment that is broadcasting a signal.
And it's at this whole point.
But you're assuming that that's something that you're not going to be allowed to do.
It's perfectly, you're perfectly allowed to do that.
And people like the librarians of this country would come out and stand,
the librarians of any country in particular would come out and stand up for you.
Because it's a pretty much speech effort.
And if you're unhappy with the service provided by your ISP,
you decide to go to SkyNet or whoever to give you your service.
And it just so happens, SkyNet uses more of encryption because they know what's going on.
And it can be monitored by your local government,
because it's operated in a distribution fashion in different territories,
not under control of your government.
Okay, it's perfectly legal to do.
Sorry, I need to get the kids up and do the happy new year thing.
So I'd like to wish you all happy new year, but before I go.
Absolute age 37, I did an interview with Yurgen Schinker,
who does the open wireless network in Deppard in London.
It's one of the old camp interviews where they have a cheap router
and they do wireless mesh networks to people for 30 pounds.
And nobody knows how it works, but it's just beautifully magic.
It's already there.
Happy New Year, Ken.
Happy New Year folks, I'll be on afterwards for a little while at least.
Okay, goodbye.
Happy New Year, Ken.
Thank you.
Thank you, bye.
I would say that any router right now is capable of mesh networking,
any wireless router.
And there are places where you're in a rural area,
and it would be difficult to get to other people.
But I live in a townhouse community.
There's 35 wireless access,
range of whatever my device is at the time.
And that in areas like where I live,
mesh networks would work brilliantly.
And there would be so many routers that, you know,
how would you pin it down to one?
The noise in that area is ridiculous.
I'm going to throw a little fly in the ointment of this idea that
that you could suddenly have an alternate ISP essentially,
which is something that's out with government control or corporate control
or whatever you want to call it.
The traditional system that we have just now,
where you could actually get online somehow and communicate
without government stepping in and monitoring
with their various partners, whatever.
And that is that all the government need to do,
any government around the world, any government.
All they need to say,
for the people using this are all terrorists and pedophiles.
Therefore, it's in the national security interest,
to shoot down any of these, whatever satellites,
anything that's actually taken the signal.
So that you've got nothing to connect to,
unless you go through these systems and then
depend the picture of,
well, if you want to avoid the traditional ISPs,
you've got something to hide.
What have you got to hide?
You should be arrested.
So, little fly in the ointment there.
It's a nice idea, but, um,
basically, given the lens that various governments and corporations are going to,
to monitor and to get different abilities,
legal rights to do all sorts of things,
there's no way they're going to allow something that's
out with their control, out with their monitoring,
to become established.
There's just no way it's going to happen.
You guys are using the same arguments that people
would have used against both the internet and Linux
and all these different things that have come about
that, yes, they're out of government control,
they're out of corporate control.
And yet they, well, they were,
Linux certainly is, I mean, but it's,
it has spread to a pretty good,
a healthy market.
So, I mean, it's,
it's not impossible just because it can't be done tomorrow.
Yeah, I agree on it.
I think you need to, um, maybe,
chill out a bit,
and not believe in all the fun going around.
Well, I think, basically, it's because, uh,
you know, I'm working under the assumption that
we're talking about a mesh network being put in place
because it's needed because the internet, uh,
as it is, is outlawed.
And I'm talking about how it would be difficult to get
around law enforcement of such a thing,
not the fact that, um,
yes, today we could put it together.
We do have sex to put it together today.
I don't think we have enough people to do it.
But if it were to become outlawed,
I don't think we could bring people into the fold to help with it.
Yeah, I think I'm moral,
legitimate, um,
approach might be encryption,
rather than, uh,
rather than some ultimate network.
I mean, the mesh network wasn't that what the,
the WLPC thing was, was good at doing,
apparently.
Ah, yeah, I believe it was.
That's the first place I heard about mesh network.
For sure.
Yeah, me too.
Do I remember, um,
I think it was Talks, Talks radar.
The, the show, one of their tasks,
they had, um,
at the idea of,
or the challenge they set themselves was creating a mesh network
from their offices to,
whatever public was,
and they were able to, uh,
to record part of the show on the pub.
Um, I never,
and connecting through the various dots,
um, little laptops and notebooks and stuff like that.
I don't know how well it went.
I do know that recorded a couple episodes from the pub,
but I think we were all actually in the pub at the time,
which doesn't really count.
Yeah, I don't know if any of that one ended.
Um, the other point I was going to make is that, uh, you know,
Napster was a big deal,
and there was a lot of lawsuits and a lot of anger
and a lot of battling over that,
that, that they were able to make downloading
music illegally, so, so easy.
And they've fought it.
Let's see.
Napster, the lawsuits were in what, 98.
Oh, here I said,
burgeoning on 2012.
So 14 years of legislation and fighting
and out of money throwing behind it.
And, uh, I bet in less than five minutes,
I could find any MP3 I ever wanted to look to get for free.
Yeah.
So to say that they're going to successfully take down the internet,
it's, when they're not even able to prevent you
from finding a single MP3 is, you know,
I don't know how much I stay up at night worrying about it.
I think a lot of the people that are, uh,
deciding these laws are being told by lobbyists
and large amounts of money,
how the internet works,
and it's not how the internet works with it.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it's, it doesn't end at the internet.
I mean, the, the fact of the matter is,
we issue, especially in the last couple of years,
everybody all around the world knows that they don't have a say,
and it's the corporations running everything.
I mean, that's the problem.
It's not, the problem isn't that, uh,
the government wants to take down the internet to stop prime.
It's that the government is being told to stop the internet, you know,
that that's what's going on.
So I'll just a series of tubes.
Anything.
I'll say when all these laws come down,
we'll just start up our own dark net and have our own tubes.
Yeah, and that's kind of where we were,
who were the conversation was just before you popped in.
Was that, you know, my point was that it would have to be a wireless network,
which would be real easy to shut down if that were their true intention,
was because you're broadcasting.
So it's, uh, you know, I hope this crap doesn't pass.
That's all.
It's easy to shut down.
I would say yes.
It is easy to shut down a node in the network.
Really easy.
It would be really difficult to walk into a neighborhood that has a thousand nodes running
and shut them all down.
You know what I mean?
You could easily take, go to any one of their houses and say,
yeah, you need to take that down.
And they probably would.
But overall, it wouldn't affect the network much until the next day
when they plug another $15 out of it and they're good to go.
Yeah, it might, it might just still be a future.
They don't knock on your door and ask you to take it down.
It's jack-moving thugs with a, you know, a battering man.
Yeah, and that's how they, I mean, that's how drugs are handled now.
I don't want to go back to that analogy or keep beating it.
But I mean, that's literally how it's handled now.
If they suspect you of having illegal drugs,
they will kick you door down and beat you up.
But there's probably 10 meth labs within walking distance of my house.
I think the internet is that good.
I think the internet and most people in the world
are either trying to get on the internet
or are already on the internet.
And there's nothing really that could stop them.
I mean, it's bringing down governments now.
It's not necessarily setting up governments yet,
but I think that at some point, it becomes that,
no matter how much you really, really want drugs to go away
or the internet to go away, there's nothing you can do.
You know, I don't know if it's as much about
and more people are coming on, even on that as such.
I think it's just as time goes by, things change.
So when I was at school, we did a computer studies class.
We were able to kind of go pioneers the first,
the first year to get it.
Now, if you go to school, you've got everyone computers
or everywhere.
So I mean, I grew up in a house where we didn't have a computer.
We had the VIK 20, but that's kind of not the right point.
Now kids grow up with multi-channel satellite television
and DVD players and movies on demand and smartphones
and games consoles and whatever.
So as time goes by,
the people who grew up without technology, who this is new to,
I mean, you look around various workplaces,
you've got people who left school before computers hit the mainstream.
So they don't really have any computer skills.
They know what they need to do with a computer,
but that's really about it.
They're kind of reluctant to learn
where as now kids are going through and they're zipping through,
doing all sorts of things.
I mean, they're sort of stereotypical example
is how they set the video recorder.
Well, you ask the kids how to do it.
And so I think the more people that either,
that there's this agent basically,
as people die off or as people retire
and there is sort of lose interest
compared to the number of people who grow up
and then on that is the norm for them.
Smartphones is the norm, tablets is the norm,
computers is the norm.
And they just replace the people who, for that's not the norm,
I thought that makes sense.
I hate to keep disagreeing with you, Thistle Webb,
because it sounds like I'm just disagreeing with you to be mean.
But I'm not seeing that in people coming out of the schools,
at least here in the States.
I'm seeing people who know how to sign on to,
again, Facebook and Gmail.
And like if I asked them to do anything remotely,
just some of the most basic things on the computer,
they just, they sit there and stare at me.
And it's really quite disconcerting
because I kept thinking, okay, this new crop of people,
they're gonna, they're gonna really know computers now
and they just, they don't know anything.
I don't know what they're getting taught.
I agree with you.
Totally agree with you.
Our 14-year-old daughter learns nothing
about computers at school.
And in fact, it's quite shocking
when we ask her to set things up at home.
She's clueless, she's still used his windows.
Yeah, that's, I mean, I really had expected more, to be honest.
Yeah, and if anything, it's getting worse.
You know, you've got these days, computers
are not being sold as computers as we know.
You know, they're being sold as consumer devices.
So things like, you know, you're iPad, you know,
they're probably the most, the hottest thing
on the shelf, this Christmas, was the iPad.
And it's not a computer, it's a consumer device.
You know, you consume content for it.
You don't, you don't, you don't output content, you know,
as we do on, or, you know, yeah, it's totally,
it's a useless device.
My example, I was going to say my example of this
that I would point to is how many people do you meet in a day
that would understand, like just talking to somebody
about formatting a hard drive and having to explain to somebody
what formatting a hard drive is and getting them
to understand that is 20 minutes of your life.
And that's every person you meet with rare exceptions.
Most people would have no reason to format the hard drive there.
I disagree. Most people in Windows.
But they don't know that they needed to format the hard drive
because they were in Windows.
I got the joke, Pokey.
Yeah, I know you've got a good point.
I understand what you're saying.
Yeah, I was going to say maybe I should sort of qualify
that a little bit. It's not about knowing computers.
That wasn't what I was getting at.
It was the fact that computers are the norm where,
I mean, certainly from Agriot,
we didn't have a computer until I was an adult.
A proper computer.
And even then it was Windows 98.
And it wasn't connected to the internet
because it was too expensive to get on the internet.
So I didn't actually get on the internet until I had XP.
But I mean, now kids, I mean, I only had four channels
when I was growing up as well on TV.
Now kids have got so much more technology around about them
that I mean, you would expect them to be able to jump
to various devices like an iPad, an Android tablet,
a smartphone, a computer, whatever,
and be able to jump straight in there.
Even although they're only doing basic tasks,
even though they're only looking to check the email
or go on Facebook or something,
they're not techno cautious, if you like,
whereas the older generation who never had computers
and are wary that if they press the letter T
they explode state by thing.
That was more of what I was getting at
rather than learning advanced skills.
I think that what they're teaching,
or I guess it's the, does everybody need to reinvent the wheel?
Does every kid need to know everything
about how a computer or a network works?
Should they be solving the problems we haven't solved yet
or learning about the problems that we already have?
And I'd say that also with devices is that,
when I first got on the internet,
it was the one computer in our house
and it connected to the internet over dial up.
And then you only had so many minutes
that you could be on the internet and then you got off.
And I agree that many people don't know
how the internet works or, but we're not no longer talking
about just signing into Facebook.
We're just logging into the internet.
We're talking about people's televisions, smart TVs.
We're talking about their Xbox Live accounts
won't work and their phone won't work
and that iPad won't work.
And people rely on networks in a transparent way
where it isn't just a desktop computer
and you connect to the internet.
It's, I have three Roku and an Xbox
and my daughter has a nook tablet and I have a Kindle Fire
and we have four Android phones
and they all connect to the internet.
And if all of a sudden people connect
in more transparent ways and I think that,
yeah, if you took it away even a little bit,
people who didn't know would suddenly start
seeking out the information and it would be there
because like hacker public radio exists
because the information's out there,
people just have to start, they're just not interested in it now.
If you make it a little harder, like you say
you can't get to Twitter today
because there was a sofa takedown of Twitter, you know,
all of a sudden people get real smart.
They go to Google and they start reading tutorials
and they start figuring stuff out, you know.
You're right, a classic example of that
in our status net with Identica,
you know, how many people in their roles left Identica
once, you know, with the upgrade,
it went offline for four or five days or weeks even.
Same with the factory network, when that crashed,
the public outcry was horrendous.
You know, speaking of reinventing the wheel,
I was trying to formulate this in a funny sounding
bent of 140 characters, but it was too difficult.
So I figured, just as a joke,
imagine the political stance.
If the makers of the Raspberry Pi
are actually marketed as a patent infringement package,
a patent infringement kit whereby if you actually start
to invent anything, you're going to
infringe someone's patents somewhere.
That's just a long shot of it.
It's as bad the patent systems get in.
If you actually lift a finger to do anything,
you're infringing on someone's patents.
We're kind of back into territory that somebody was talking
about earlier, and I was out of the room,
and I didn't get a chance to make the point.
But somebody mentioned that you don't need to know how to fix a car
to drive a car and use that as an analogy for computers.
But, you know, I kind of think that that's not exactly right,
because I think that the more you know about cars,
the better of a driver you can be,
because you'll understand how things work and how physics reacts
on that, or that you know about computers,
and the more you know about the internet,
the real limitation work with them to get that stuff done.
You know, I think that goes so far.
I would go as far as to say it's important for the
average user to understand basic maintenance of a
technology, because it's like to the car analogy,
basic maintenance of the car, not necessarily how it works,
but how to keep it, how not to do stupid things,
like put diesel on it, well, it's a petrol car,
that type of thing, same with computers.
I mean, the amount of people who I see who,
with a USB thumb drive, and they're just pull out the thumb drive,
and I'm like, no, I'm not at first.
And by that time, by the time I get the words out my mouth,
it's already out the drive, and no, why did you do that?
Why don't you do that? Please don't do that.
Don't do that again, and I've got to educate them.
So you unmount it first.
You don't just whip it out of the drive.
The people don't know any better.
So I think it's the basic maintenance thing that really
should be general, general school knowledge.
I don't know, general knowledge.
Hey, hey, lost in Bronx.
Should be knowledge that people basic maintenance.
Guys, hear me?
Yeah, we got you.
OK, I can't hear a fissile web at all.
I can hear them on the stream, but not here in mumble.
I'm not sure to do about that.
Is he using Kelt or the Speaks codec, I wonder?
Yeah, that's a good question.
This web, can you check your codec and make
sure that your compressions low enough that it's
using the Speaks codec, please?
If he's using Kelt now and changes to the Speaks,
he will have to restart mumble just FYI at this web.
Yeah, no worries.
I think it might be able to speak to him.
Quite to the Kelt in the FBO package.
That's the wrong one, right?
Correct.
Yeah, that's how we found out about this,
actually, on a podcast I was doing with Pokey and Resno,
and I wasn't being able to hear them.
Yeah, I think it's off by like 0.0 or 1 or whatever.
Yeah.
OK, I'll have to redo that at some point, not today.
Yeah, that's why we decided to use Speaks
for everyone today.
Yeah, so this web, I think it's a fairly good analogy.
If you're driving a car, you have to know
what kind of fuel to put in the car.
You have to be able to check your oil.
If you can't do that, then you have to do it for you
or it's going to break.
And I think the same thing is true of computers.
You see, all the time, with Windows computers,
somebody has to defrag that hard drive
or the computer's going to slow down.
Somebody has to put, you know, maintain the viruses
and take care of that or it's going to break down.
On the internet, you have to know how to encrypt your stuff
or somebody's going to steal your credit card number.
It's, I think it's a very appropriate analogy.
And we know that better you're going to be at it.
I think there are some differences.
I mean, to devil's advocate a bit, you know.
We'll get any analogy to break down, but yeah, let's hear them.
No, no, no, I'm not trying to attack the analogy.
Just that, you know, technology's job is,
is it the job for people to adapt to technology
or to technology to adapt to people?
And that's, you know, I get that a thumb drive
is the existence now, but at some point,
the next wave of technology is going to solve that
with something that doesn't interact that way, you know,
that somebody can yank it out.
You know, there was, there was a point when, you know,
the idea of something being hot swappable
where you could plug in a USB device and it would pop up
without you having to restart your machine
was like a huge deal where people, you know,
that the next wave of technology should probably adapt
to the way people are than people adapting
to the way the technology is.
People have been saying that longest time, though.
I mean, you know, I don't know how many times I've heard that.
Yeah, I don't know that it meets reality.
It's more, I think a lot of philosophical argument, but,
No, I think it does mean reality and it doesn't even,
it doesn't even break the analogy because you've got cars
that can park themselves now because people can't parallel park.
Computers might make it.
Well, you know, I'm a big believer that the tech ought to do
all that stuff for people, you know, I don't think people
should have to parallel park, you know,
because some people are really good at it
and some people are going to suck like me, you know,
and it doesn't mean I'm a bad person
or that I shouldn't be allowed to travel anywhere.
I mean, I'm excited about a car that can drive itself
because I don't want to drive anymore, you know.
I don't want to do that.
I know exactly what you mean.
I mean, you know, but, you know, the car analogy
is, I think, applies to computer too.
And, you know, a lot of people in, you know,
kind of geek areas, they, you know,
they're of the opinion that the average user
shouldn't be allowed on the internet
because they do stupid things.
You know, people should have the right
to do whatever the hell they want, you know,
if the internet is too damn dangerous or complex,
that means that the tools we're using
are wrong for the average user.
Now, that's where the lulls, man.
Bill, what were you going to say?
No, sorry, the conversation moved, not it's all right.
You can move it back.
We've got a lot of time to fill, buddy.
Yeah, right.
No, I was just going to make...
I can't hear Bill at all.
Oh, meet me either, huh?
I was just going to say computers might get there
where the average user it's doing everything they want.
I don't think they're going to be the computers
that we want to use.
I tell challenged.
Hi, Bill. You're all right, mate.
Hello, Phil.
Yeah, I was just thinking that way.
We can hear you fine, Bill.
Yeah, no, I was just...
Yeah, it might be you lost it, bro.
I'm talking that I am the guy who wants to drive
and I am the guy who wants to format my own hard drives.
I'm not saying that I don't want to know how to drive.
I just don't like as far as day in and day out, you know,
I'm coming off, they're moving my office
to 1.3 miles away from my house.
But for six years, I've been making a 36 mile each way commute
and to say that if I'm going to have to make
that kind of a commute in order to, you know,
make the economics of my family work,
then not driving and being able to say
read a newspaper in the morning
instead of having to drive.
Sounds pretty appealing to me.
And that's what...
I mean, that's an idea of technology
is meeting me, not me meeting technology.
Well, when I moved here to Arizona from New York City,
I mean, I took the train everywhere.
You get really, really used to, you know,
having a morning coffee and reading or writing.
I had a hand-held thing at that time
that I was, you know, doing lots of writing and reading on.
You get so used to that.
When I came out here, man, all of that went away.
So those are dead hours for me,
driving on the road out here.
Hi, my morning commute to work.
I drive 36 miles each way.
I enjoyed the first year, maybe.
It gives me time to wake the morning
and time to online from work
before I get home and see the family again.
And I get a chance to sing in the car.
I guess the fact that I, that, you know,
I've had a year where I had my first car accident
that I've ever been in.
And then my wife was involved in two.
And it gets to the point where I'm just nervous driving.
Like, I do so much of it that at some point,
I realize how much is out of my control when I do it.
And I would rather sit and read a book and feel safe
than feel like, you know, if I get a cold,
I'm a little groggy.
But I still have to make that 36 mile commute.
And that's how my accident happened.
You know, I had been, had a cold,
but couldn't afford to miss work
and had taken some cold medicine.
It didn't quite wear off right.
And then we were ending somebody.
And it wasn't, nobody got hurt or anything.
But those kind of things, they're like,
I want technology to get around to that where
I don't want a car that gets tired, you know,
that feels groggy or gets a cold.
I want to be able to make it to work safely
regardless of how I feel.
Yeah, it's a fair point.
I think, I think Becky would enjoy her commute each morning
if, you know, she'd enjoy it just as much as if,
you know, if she wasn't driving.
If the car was driving itself,
she'd probably still enjoy it just as much.
Because, you know, it's the time,
I think she enjoys the time to herself
as opposed to the actual driving of the car.
I guys, this is Ken just going to sign off now.
We shall have a year
and I want to thank everybody for putting this on
and I look forward to listening to the rest of the show
on the stream whenever it's out.
So, Ken, happy new year, mate.
Happy new year, everyone.
Yeah, happy new year, Ken.
Happy brother.
Cheers.
All right, since nobody's talking,
I want to take this opportunity and the law
and the conversation to save and restart
a new bit of recording.
So just hang on for a minute, please.
Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to compile the latest kelp
and install it.
So, I might jump off here at any time.
So, I was going to say something really profound,
but I guess I'll wait.
No, go ahead. I'm recording it.
That's all it took.
Oh, I forgot what it was.
Oh, shoot. I'm sorry.
No, I'm joking. It was just, it's all a lot of ruse.
I was going to say that I'd like your Becky's sing.
Oh, no.
It's the last day it wasn't so bad.
I'd play guitar and she could sing.
Yeah, that would work great.
Oh, speaking of latency, I did want to mention,
if anybody is listening to the stream
and they're connected directly to the, the OSMP stream,
could you please hop off of that and hop on to one of the streams that are posted on HPR
because we are getting some latency here and I'm pretty sure it's due to bandwidth
because that's so many people hit in the primary stream and could, could, could head over to HPR.
I mean, I've got the stats up for it.
One of those.
I don't notice anything other than, you know, I could, I can check again, but I don't think I've
got anybody connected to my stream other than, yeah, I just have two, three.
So, and I think there's three streams up.
So, I think that's those three streams.
I don't think it's great.
Okay, back.
So, if we're, if we're getting problems, there's probably too many people on the mobile screen.
Take it back.
But then, okay.
It was a wild guess anyway.
Being on the server and listening and, and, and you weren't intending on talking,
then I'd ask you to hit the, the stream instead.
Oh, yeah, listen to the stream and says what I meant.
There's 19 people listening on the tilt stream.
All right.
Sweet.
That's, that's almost my whole audience for a new world order.
That's twice as many that usually listen.
Yeah.
So, for having a low, I have a question about recording HPRs if anybody wants to answer.
Why sure?
How are you guys converting into Speaks?
I can't really find a easy way to do that.
I tried it with FF MPEG and it oozes all the ID3 data.
Speaks ENC, all one word, Speaks Encoder, Speaks ENC.
That's how I do it personally.
I don't know how other people do it.
I think can actually, though, he's got a script on the server side that will do that for you.
If you don't, if you record a show, just send him like the, the,
the aug or the flag version and, and I'm pretty sure that their script will do the
Speaks conversion for you.
But if you want to do it yourself, I just use Speaks ENC.
Okay.
Thanks for looking at that.
I have one ready to put up the HPR, but it's just Aug and MP3, but.
Oh, yeah.
No, just send that.
They can, they'll, they'll do the conversion server side as well.
They say it's pretty simple.
I don't even bother myself.
I just upload the aug version and let them do the rest.
Yeah, that's all I do.
I overdue.
Okay.
Nice.
Thanks.
I'm going to say the same.
I never upload a Speaks version and I believe it's all automated.
Speaks, I was going to say, Speaks ENC,
Speaks ENC is part of the, the big Speaks package.
I remember on some distribution, I pulled Speaks and it just got the,
I guess, just the codec itself, but if you get the whole thing,
I think maybe it possibly speaks to you Tills or something like that.
That should have a whole bunch of other stuff.
All right.
Thanks.
I'll check it.
That was my last I'm winged back, but I'll check into that.
Thanks.
Are you saying that HPR, if you want to speak or the aug file,
it takes the MP3 and re encodes it as Speaks or aug?
Yes.
You mean if someone only sends a Speaks file?
No, I'm asking.
You said that HPR takes care of all the encoding.
Yeah.
So if you want to speak files, that means they're taking the MP3 file
and encoding a Speaks from it on the fly?
Yes, from Lossy to Lossy.
Awesome.
Not on the fly, but they do it.
That's how we roll before they post.
Right.
Okay.
But if you wanted to, you can cut a Speaks and an aug from your original
and give that to them.
Indeed.
All right.
I was under the impression that I had to,
if I wanted R3, I had to push R3 up.
But it sounds like I should be said as I am.
Yeah.
So what's our next subject?
See, that was a good question.
I could play a tune till you figure it out.
Maybe you're dying to play it too highlights.
Well, it's been six hours.
So maybe we can have a round table question
of what's been your highlight of 2011?
As far as like shows or like just personally?
Well, shows personally, you know, tech-related.
Would you start us off?
I want to go first.
Ladies first.
Ladies first.
Google plus.
Awesome.
Really?
Really.
Yeah, I enjoyed Google plus a lot.
I hear past tense out of you, man.
What was so appealing?
I'm appealing to you.
For me, it certainly feels
avoid once I'd entered curtain status
next crash when they did the upgrade.
The lack of 140 limit that appeals to.
And also, it's a nice techy crowd.
My friends and family tend to be on Facebook,
but my techy friends are all on Google plus.
And I can talk differently there.
It's interesting.
You nailed it on the head, why I like it.
I guess I just IRC for that.
Yeah, I've got to use for Google plus myself.
That would be true if I, you know,
up until I had an Android phone, I would say that, you know,
there was computer time and not computer time.
And that, you know, once I got a phone,
all time it was computer time.
And I want to, you know, I can't be on IRC.
I mean, I can be on IRC on my phone,
but that doesn't really meet a lifestyle.
But I can post up a conversation,
and kind of get updates,
and it kind of all works really nicely
without me, you know, interrupting my day or my flow,
or the way I'm doing things.
And yet, still carry on some really cool conversation, you know.
How many people just before I start?
Thank you, Nick.
Yeah, I was going to say, who can actually hear me
as my sound OK?
Seems to be an OK outside, but it's OK in here.
I can hear you.
I hear you, Nick.
I can hear you too.
Yeah, my, he's right.
Yeah, Google plus was one of these
things that was kind of Facebook,
but not really Facebook.
I mean, it's still Google, but with the circles,
it's kind of, it's more sort of what Facebook should have been
and could have been, but wasn't.
And I think that's maybe why people like it.
I don't know why, but I'm very reluctant to do the Google plus.
Very scared of a Google takeover, it seems like it's coming.
Yeah, I'm avoiding Google plus,
like I avoid most everything from Google, so.
Yeah, I'm not too worried about Google to be there.
I think there's, you know, I think it's a numbers game.
There's far too many users out there for, you know,
for them to be worth, for me to be worried about what I'm doing.
Well, that's where batch processing comes in, my friend.
Yeah, I'm not pretty much about things like that.
So, so for the people who are using Google plus and are getting some value out of it,
I'll ask you to get, how do you deal with the inundation
of like friend requests or circle requests as they come?
How do you deal with that?
I ignore them if I don't know them.
Yeah, the tellers do it.
It don't quite work like that.
If you don't get friend requests with Google plus,
people can, unlike Facebook where, you know,
people will request to be your friend in Google plus,
you know, they will just follow you.
So it's almost, it's similar to identical in that respect,
you know, similar to Twitter as well.
So, they just add you to the surf.
Get a notification that say that someone, you know,
so, so like this is a web for web.
Yeah, this is a web has added me to this circle.
If I don't want to follow this or web back,
I don't add him into my circle.
Yeah, I'm looking at my circles right now.
I have 104 people in my circles,
and I'm in 434 circles.
Yeah, I've got a similar thing I got going on.
There's like several hundred people following me.
I don't know how the heck they got my name,
but yeah, I'm not following that many people,
but my inbox is just full every day of, you know,
notification, so on, so I was following you.
Maybe I just need to turn off notifications.
I mean, certainly for me, the same for me is because, obviously,
you know, I am married to Philip.
You know, the developer of Crunchbang.
Also, the naughty facts that I'm a lady,
you know, who happens to post as well.
So I do get a little bit of sort of some element of fan following going on,
but if I don't know them in real life or not spoken to one line,
then I choose not to follow them back.
Yeah, same with me.
And that's one of the reasons why,
you know, it's somewhere between Facebook and Twitter,
in that, you know, people, I like to post things publicly,
but that doesn't mean that I want to get day-loosed
with people I don't know saying things, you know.
But I like that they engage in conversation.
I post something, you know, and I get to hear from people
that I don't necessarily know personally,
but, you know, that doesn't mean that every time they post something,
I want to, you know, I can't read 434 people's posts, you know.
I would just be overwhelmed.
So this is a question for...
I mean, I don't use Google, because I've resisted Google Plus,
I've resisted diaspora and lots of other things.
I've primarily used Identica.
So this is a question for everyone who uses Google Plus.
How do you actually interact with it and have conversations
back and forth with people on that?
Because, look, what I consider Identica for is a little icon in the status bar,
in the status tray, the system tray, and in my case, it's Haybody,
where I can just, if I have some thought, I can randomly just shoot it out.
If I come across some link, I can just shoot it out
and have conversations back and forth.
I don't want to be keeping going back to opening a web browser
and going to any site regardless, whether it's Twitter, Facebook,
Identica, or Google Plus, whatever.
So how is it you actually deal with that?
Is it, did you just sort of go back every sort of 10 minutes
and check the web page to see if there's updates or
and post back and forth, or do you have the web browser open all the time
and just have a tab?
Now, how do you actually deal with Google Plus?
Yes.
All those things.
What was overwhelming I failed on it?
I mean, most of my interaction with it is,
I will post something using the web browser.
Google gives you notifications and updates
in any of their Google products.
So I usually have Gmail open anyways,
and you get Google Plus notifications in there.
And then I also use the Android app when I'm moving around.
I get notifications on there too.
That'd be the same for me as well.
But I'm probably not posting on the same volume
that you post through Haybody for so long.
So, right, does anyone know of an application like Haybody?
Or like any client, really, just the client and general,
that actually does Google Plus.
That's fantastic.
That does Facebook, but it doesn't seem to do Google Plus.
What does Google Chrome?
Chromium Safari.
I guess the point is though that I like the web interface
and the mobile apps so much that I haven't really needed
another client.
So, I mean, you kind of stumped me completely on that
question because I don't know.
That's a fair point.
I mean, if the internet is the application that works best,
then you can use the internet to do that.
Certainly, I've found recently that information, constant
information overload has thwarted me and prevent me
from doing so many things.
That's why I tend to either, recently, I've just
sort of switched off from a lot of it.
So now I've only got identical open through Haybody.
And sometimes coming to IRC through XChat,
but even that XChat is sitting as an X in the system tree.
And I'm trying to sort of think, who would it be possible
to do that with Google Plus without having a web browser open
without having the constant distraction there
all the time of conversations going back and forth?
I mean, during my workday, I usually don't interact much
on Google Plus.
It's usually after work during my commute
or those kind of things.
So I mean, I think it's reasonable that because you have circles
and you can put people in different circles
that you can manage the day loose a little better.
It's kind of when I first started listening to podcasts,
I felt like every podcast in my feed
I wanted to listen to.
And at some point, you come to the realization
that you don't read every article in the newspaper
or in a magazine, I don't need to listen to every show
that comes across the feed.
And the same with Google Reader.
I'm heavy into that.
I don't need to read everything.
You know, I sort and deal with that stuff.
And I like that I can do the same really easily
in the Google Plus app that I have my family,
my friends, the OSMP listeners,
you know, the kind of core group that we have there.
I have them in their own feed.
And then, you know, when I want to see what they're doing,
I click that and I can read that and interact with that.
But if not, it's just a stream that passes me by.
I like that I can go back and just see what these people
are saying without putting a lot of effort into it.
So, you know, it's one click.
It's also very much in the now.
I mean, I don't scroll all the way back to my timeline
to see what people have said.
You know, I go on it.
I read what's available on my page.
If anything, love interest to comment on it
gets comments.
If not, you know, I go about my business.
Yeah, it's a conversation when you want to have
the conversation.
Absolutely.
I want to commend Platt to eat just
while we're having this conversation,
build a slack build of the Celts version.
No, I didn't.
No, no, no, I didn't.
Oh, you didn't build that?
You just found it?
No, yeah, yeah, it's just the historical one.
But thank you for commending my internet skills
for finding it.
It sounds like something you would do though.
It seemed plausible when he said.
Yeah, I mean, I've built slack builds before.
So yeah, it's not it's not a crazy idea,
but no, I can't take credit for it.
No, and your tech support, I guess,
leanings would have me believe that you
could go do that for somebody.
You underestimate my laziness, I think.
Yeah, I do.
I know what you do.
We are techy because we are lazy.
Exactly.
We know how this stuff works so that we cannot
have to do it as much.
Do you know there was some story or, I think,
it was a garden today about a lot of dates
and about the heat, the technology,
the gradual progress of technology.
And I'm thinking, well, technology,
it loses some jobs because machines can do them
easier and better and more efficient,
but it creates others.
So the job is just move.
So I've lost my train of thought there.
As my type goes, I'm a bit inebriated at the moment.
So my type ends up off, I do apologize.
I would say that, you know, you can say
in certain ways that, yeah, technology creates problems
that didn't exist before, you know, like a car, for example,
there wasn't car crashes and stuff like that
before the car existed, but I think as a whole,
as technology improves, we do have more and more leisure time.
You know, there was a point when, you know,
people didn't have the time to sit down and read a magazine.
You worked in a field, you know, 18 hours a day,
and that was it.
So every year, my leisure time has increased in some way.
You know, there was a time when,
I commuted in a car and I didn't have anything to do
during that commute because it was dark,
so I couldn't read without having a book light
and I didn't have a book light.
So I would just sit and stare out the window.
And now, you know, if I feel like listening to a podcast,
I do that, if I feel like reading a book, I do that,
I feel, you know, I feel like cruising around
and talking to friends on the internet, I do that.
And that, that even of itself, to me,
is an increase in my leisure time.
And I think that technology doesn't necessarily
just create more problems.
Well, technology rises to feel to do
five times the output of what you had been doing before.
Then the targets your employer sets for you
suddenly reflect that.
So you now have to work just as hard as you did before
to get five times the output to meet the targets.
So it's just things change.
It's not good or bad.
It's just progress, things change.
It should look smart and not hard.
Yeah, and that goes for technology itself, too.
I mean, I think that technology has the potential
that make things not quality.
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of bad technology
sometimes too.
I mean, like the iPad, for instance, you know,
I mean, it's not a given that technology
is going to be better, but there is a potential for it
to make things a lot better.
I like technology.
Hey, I'm the only one recording now.
I think anybody else was intentionally making a backup
your recording stops.
Yeah, I had quit mine because I kept going back out
into the lobby to help people figure out mumble.
So I think my recording was probably dropping out anyway,
but I'll stay in here for a while and record.
Oh, I had to stop recording at about 40 gig.
Wow.
Don't you use what?
Don't you use black?
I know.
It didn't occur to me when I started the recording,
and then I didn't want to stop it.
But then the drive it was filling up filled up.
So I stopped.
I tested last night with black, and I think I had both.
500 megabytes maybe for an hour and a half full of audio.
And I don't know if that goes up with more people.
It does because when you do multi-track,
each one is their own file.
Yes.
And they're all of equal size.
So if I, you know, at three and a half hours,
it was one and a half gig per person.
And I think I had 15 different recordings.
Oh, it's equal size, even if they're silent.
Yeah, because, you know, it's still recording.
Yeah, it's still recording.
Yeah, I know, but it's compressed.
And I would think that if there's zero audio,
it could just say, oh, you're saying with the flag.
Mine was all wave.
And if I was thinking, I would have just done
a hug and just called a good, but I didn't do that.
That's what I'm doing.
Yeah, I'm just doing a hug.
Yeah, but since you mentioned Glad to had known
into the testing room and helping people out,
I would like to take this opportunity to, again,
thank everybody who has helped us out with this.
All the people running streaming,
there's a pipe man for running the server
and the original stream.
All the people who are calling in and are on the line
and contributing to the conversation
and to all the people listening
and people helping out in the help people in IRC.
It's amazing how many people are working together right now
to make this thing good and to make it listenable
and pulling together for the community.
And you guys are awesome.
Every single one is great.
You're assuming it's good and listenable.
I'm listening.
I'm enjoying every minute of it.
Yeah, me too.
I didn't know what this is.
I'm just saying it for three hours.
When the idea first popped up, you know, I thought,
well, my family never does anything exciting for New Year's.
We don't party.
My wife doesn't drink.
I rarely drink, you know.
My kids are too little to stay up.
And so I thought, sure.
And I didn't know what I expected it to be.
But I know that the idea of doing 12 hours worth of show
seemed kind of like, well, you know,
I don't know what we'll do, but we'll do something.
And it all came together, even with, you know,
some of the technology that we're using,
I've had bad experiences with in the past.
And I want to commend that stands on how great the community is
and how well they were able to put this together so quickly
and have it work so well.
We have amazing amount.
I mean, I wouldn't have expected this many people
to connect just to the mumble server to talk, you know.
And the streams were a little touch and go in the beginning.
And I thought, well, we'll see how this goes.
But now we're how far in six hours and almost seven hours in.
And I commend everyone that put in any effort on this
because I couldn't have expected it to go better.
Yeah, it's, I'm not going to lie to you.
I was scared when I said 12 hours at first.
It was almost a joke.
And then I realized what I had said and committed to
when I was really frightened and panicking.
Then I just kind of thought, well,
then we'll just do a round table and come what may.
And if the community is behind the idea,
the community will shuffle up and make it work.
If I tried to plan 12 hours of content,
I mean, there's no way.
I don't think anybody could do that.
But just the fact that people are showing up
and are given an open mic to speak their mind with their friends.
Basically, you know, we're all friends as far as I'm concerned.
It's, it ain't hard to fill 12 hours with just a bloody, you know.
And when I heard you say, you're going to do a 12 hour live show,
my jaw pretty much dropped.
I didn't expect that it's going very well, though, in my opinion.
And that's basically my point is I couldn't do a 12 hour show.
There's no way I have a hard time doing two,
but we can do indefinite shows and just look at what's in the HPR feed.
Not so much 900 shows in there.
There's, I mean, it can tell you how many scores of hours
worth of content that is.
It's in the thousands, not the tens of thousands of hours.
You know, not, oh, sorry.
I was just going to say, what's this bit of a lull?
Can Philip and I say, happy new year to everyone?
We're going to go off in a minute to celebrate new year here in the UK.
And just want to say, happy new year and high to Drake and to Bill and to Gordon.
Happy new year.
Happy new year.
Yeah, and if anybody else has good shoutouts, take time too.
Yeah, half a new year, that's quarter to quarter to midnight in the UK.
So yeah, half a new year.
I'm going to jump off to go eat some dinner, but I'll be back in a little bit.
Cool.
Just when we say, well, everything's going, everybody jumps out.
Oh, thank you guys so much for coming on.
You guys have worked so great for this.
We will do a show by the promise.
It might be a very sort of sad version of Mr.
Mrs. Crunch thing, but we will do one.
I want to hear it.
I am subscribed to the feed and would do so twice if I could quite quickly jumping back.
My highlight of this year has been the latest respawn of Crunchbound.
I use it on my netbook.
I use it on my laptop.
It's long overdue.
Honest at a walkthrough.
So thank you, Phil.
Good man.
Yeah.
I'll give you that five.
The next time we'll see you, Mike.
That's a good thing.
That's all this e-runs is Crunchbang.
Thanks for me too.
Yeah, me too.
If I hadn't started using it in 2010, I would have used that one too.
Not me.
I don't use it, but it sounds neat.
You will after this.
It's worth a look.
Yeah.
I know, right?
Yeah.
I found out the hard way.
I'm going to try the initial install on the usual sort of multi-production thing.
And it just kept flipping out.
It was like, why is this not working?
I know this should work.
Why is it not working?
And eventually I decided, you know what?
I don't actually need to multi-boot.
Screw it.
I'm just going to go for the whole thing.
Then I did.
It was like, oh, I'm cryptidLVM.
I think I'll go for that.
And it was like eight hours to crypt the partition on the netbook.
Oh my god.
I did not realize it was going to be that long.
I will never install this.
And it's like 25 minutes to the back up run, installing it on the LVM and cryptidLVM.
It was like 12%.
What do you mean 12%?
It's been like an hour.
What did you mean just set it up 12%?
It's still working.
Cool.
You sound like my computer transcoding audio.
Yeah.
Really?
My laptops are like that.
One of my laptops is like that with encoding, just to AUG, you know, it's just like,
I literally start it and I just walk away.
Yeah.
I did that last night.
I was surprised.
I have a fairly new laptop and all the fans kicked on and started getting hot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I kind of realized that the LVM thing takes a long, long, long time then again.
It's worth the anything that's, that's a portable like a netbook.
It's kind of advisable just in case it gets nicked and that it is fully encrypted.
So it is worth the hassle.
It's just I never realized how long it took.
Even the laptop is like 50 hours.
What do you mean 50 hours?
Just 50 hours.
Just to encrypt it and then in a little bit of 10 minutes I've run it.
It's zipped through the rest of the installer.
That's still faster than Windows XT.
Hey guys.
Thanks for all the kind words and thanks for having us on.
We're, I'm going to drop off now.
So it's nice to walk into you and maybe do this again sometime.
So thank you.
Thanks for coming on.
Nice to meet you.
Have a nice New Year.
Yeah.
Happy New Year.
Wow.
Glad to.
You didn't hit me once with the fan voice.
Oh, about the crunch bang.
Yeah.
Yeah.
About crunch bang while he was in there.
I think it was great.
I think I thought it was fantastic to have them on.
I didn't know they were going to show up.
I had heard of, I mean, I've obviously read about crunch bang.
I've heard about it.
But I didn't really, I really didn't know that much about it.
I think it's fantastic to talk to someone like that.
Well, I didn't think you were going to hit them.
I'm glad you didn't have to hit me.
I was gushing.
Those guys are great.
I mean, hey, I met the guy who makes my distribution.
And I have to say that I was, it took me a while to pull myself together.
You know, it's just, it's so silly because they're just people.
But yeah, for some reason, you meet the person who's kind of like doing
everything behind the scenes and you just get, yeah, you get like enamored.
It's weird.
You don't want a good laugh like of this.
There's people who feel that way about people like Tom Cruise.
Yeah, exactly.
And he doesn't even do anything.
I noticed that I'm quite quick.
I've been being carried by some new cousins.
I realized quite quickly that both of us are crunch bang fans.
So I was like, I was like, okay, we need to tell this.
We don't want it to be a crunch bang loving.
We really want to try and make sure it's not like that.
I don't know.
I don't think it's so bad.
Honestly, I mean, why not?
If you like the software, don't, don't hide it.
I don't think any of us would.
It just works.
It's good.
It's good to us.
Yeah.
It's sort of changing the subject a little bit.
And I remember one of the things I mean,
we get talking about this sort of 12 hour HPR recording of people
is jumping in and sort of share a moment of sharing a time online
with random strangers.
I remember during the World Cup, a football soccer World Cup,
being on IRC and you're watching a game and someone in,
I don't know, Baltimore is watching the same game.
Someone in, in Dusseldorf in Germany is watching the same game
and someone in, I don't know, in Tokyo is watching the same game.
And you're chatting back and forth in real time.
And you're seeing the same thing, oh, that was a near miss.
Or that should be apparently, or whatever it is.
And it's a really good experience to sit in a channel,
okay, IRC was only text.
But there's a similar thing, good experience
in the same moment with complete strangers, essentially,
which is kind of like what this is.
And it's a good thing.
It's a good thing to have.
Yeah, I think that's a unique thing.
I imagine it's a fairly unique thing, really,
because of technology.
I mean, you can experience the same moments
in time with people who shouldn't really be able
to share them with you.
You know, they might be halfway across the world or whatever.
But there is something to that, I think,
the shared experience of events.
That's really, really cool, very fascinating to me.
Yeah, and somebody, I don't remember what podcast it was on,
but somebody indicated the other day what a good event New Year's Eve is
to share that, because basically, unless you're Chinese,
you recognize tonight as New Year's Eve
or tomorrow is New Year's Day in crayons case.
So it's not like it's, you know, it's not like it's a religious thing
or a political thing.
It's a New Year tomorrow.
And we can all agree on that.
Well, actually, that was a question that I had.
I mean, are we, is this scientifically correct?
Have we made a full rotation around the Sun
like to that, to the exact day and hour?
Or are we actually offsetting this event?
Because that would disturb me a little bit.
You know, I'm just wondering if, like, if we're,
if we are exactly sure that we've made the full rotation
or not right now, like at midnight,
have we actually made the full rotation?
Well, isn't that?
No, from last year.
Wouldn't that be midnight Australia times?
Well, I think there was Christmas Island,
which is just a little bit off of Australia, I believe.
Excuse me.
They're the first.
Oh, are they the, you're dropping out a little bit,
this will live.
Yeah, I'm a little bit drunk here.
I'm trying not to, to hiccup.
Well, I'm talking.
But, my bad.
No, isn't that, isn't that?
Yeah, I think from here,
for what I remember, we've got,
when you listen to the New Year coming through,
it's like four and afternoon here,
and you see the footage coming through
of, like, Sydney and Australia celebrating year,
that's their midnight,
as we turn, like, two in the afternoon type, I think.
But I think before that,
I think it's like 11 o'clock here in the morning
before lunchtime.
I'm sure that's been, like, Christmas Island.
I'm sure they're the very first on the time zone.
So, really, it would go 24 hours right around the clock
until, like, there, you know,
and Matthew is 11 o'clock in the morning.
I guess what I'm asking, I mean,
okay, one year is birth in space,
rotating one full instance
around the sun, the sun.
So, I'm asking,
are we sure that we have actually rotate,
have, has the earth actually reached the full rotation today,
right now, at someone's midnight?
I understand that the earth is also rotating on its axis.
I gather that there's going to be a little bit of offset
from that.
I'm just wanting to make sure that the rotation
is exactly precise.
I mean, we're not doing a new year's a day earlier,
something, are we?
The position of the axis.
Well, if you, if you,
it's close enough that every four years,
we throw a,
an extra day in,
and we can call it good.
Okay, just making sure.
You said this,
you said this transcended all religion and everything
and had no, you know, no,
political implication,
but I'm just, I just want to make sure that scientifically,
this is accurate.
I'm just kidding about that.
The world is flat thing.
So, let's not take these big leaps.
Yeah.
Even though he's a comment,
son, oh boy.
Hey, Glad to,
if we let you edge it on you next time,
we, we let us have our party and,
and do our drinking.
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's fair.
Are you guys actually talking about the flat earth?
We, we were,
no, that, that came up first.
We were talking about the rotation.
But we can talk about the flatness of the earth.
Well, something.
Hey, you know,
you're only getting over again.
Yeah, we didn't hear anything.
Okay.
I kind of knew the mumbles.
So I might,
I went into the test channel and tried to figure it out,
but maybe you're not hearing me.
Okay, how about now?
You're perfectly fantastic.
It was just look that you cut out.
We could hear, you know,
from artifacting from it,
which we haven't heard all day.
It was just a fool.
So go ahead.
Okay, great.
So what I was saying is that there's this website called
the flat earth society.org.
I think it is.
I think it is.
I'm not checking it right now.
But they actually have a forum where they're arguing about
how the earth is actually flat.
They have all those justifications for it.
And I just think it's really funny.
Did they know how much time on their hands?
I was going to say,
you know,
that sounds like an offshoot of the Republican Party.
But at that side,
geeks could be distinct rotations
and all this on Christmas Eve,
on New Year's Eve.
In Scotland,
we say,
it's almost fucking midnight,
it's just like,
you're dropping your year.
So happy New Year.
So are they saying really that honestly,
believe that the Earth is flat,
or just that the euphemism and the analogy
is appropriate to the way you should live your life?
No, just like they really think that Earth is flat.
At least last time I looked at,
again,
I'm not checking up before I'm talking about it.
But the last.
Right now.
Okay,
the last time I looked at was about five years ago, probably.
And they were actually coming up with all
explanations for how the earth is flat and how to take an account that we've actually,
you know, gone into space and what about the earth going around the sun and they have all
these things that they try to explain it away and it's just really silly.
I find it funny that they're they're going through all these great lengths and they're
using modern technology to put the word out.
So it's got to be like Pac-Man, you go out one side of the screen, you go back in the
other.
Yeah, I want to be both flat earther and a hollow earther and really blow their minds.
Lost in Bronx, it's all turtles all the way down.
So how's everybody doing?
There are just a couple of bears in me.
Yeah, I was wondering if this show would get increasingly, I don't know, I was going
to say more entertaining, but it might be, should be saying, sillier as we get closer
to that hour.
Who was it just mentioned Turtles?
I happened to be looking at the clock at the time.
That's a pelch.
It was me.
Desk World.
I recognise the reference at Desk World and I can hear the, I was going to say thunder.
The fireworks going off.
That's new year here, so hot.
Well, I'm not getting anything, I'm seeing lips light up, I may have to happen again.
I think I was just unified silence.
Yeah, I think.
I lost everything.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was maybe just for kick up somewhere.
Yeah, it was the time change.
I don't know what it was, it was, it was a government sponsored fireworks, that's what
it was, it was censoring my life on this dammit.
The turtle shifted, it sure was.
It was millions and millions of people of IRC users just spelled, yeah, I guess he just
had a new year in Cornwall, UK.
This is in Cornwall.
The new year.
The new year.
I can tune to me.
I can Cornwall East.
I'm trying to, I'm trying to imagine that his flooding of the IRC channel somehow affected
the mumble chat.
I don't know the connection there.
It's the internet.
He hoops.
Do we have too many people on you?
No, I don't think we have too many people because we had a lot more on before.
Maybe it's, I don't know.
I think pipe man music is downloading those illegal MP3s he was bragging about earlier.
He was bragging, wasn't he?
You're supposed to use your dark up for that.
You guys are talking about prawn.
I don't know what he's downloading.
See the walls on a sponge is both.
I would, I would almost suggest that we all log out and log back in again to, to maybe
let it reach sink.
I think maybe we, I don't know, maybe he's out of ram or something because it's, it's
long, long silences.
Okay.
I'll be back in like three minutes.
Okay, let's see who gets, absolutely come back in.
You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public Radio.
We are a community podcast network that releases shows every weekday, Monday through Friday.
Today's show, like all our shows, was contributed by a HPR listener like yourself.
If you ever considered recording a podcast, then visit our website to find out how easy
it really is.
Hacker Public Radio was founded by the Digital Dark Pound and the Infonomicon Computer
Cloud.
HPR is funded by the binary revolution at binrev.com.
All binrev projects are proud to sponsor by lunar pages.
From shared hosting to custom private clouds, go to lunarpages.com for all your hosting
needs.
Unless otherwise stated, today's show is released under a creative comments, attribution,