hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr1777.txt

Episode: 1777
Title: HPR1777: Magnatune Favourites
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1777/hpr1777.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 09:10:50

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Hello and welcome to an HBR episode which I, that is Andrew or also known as McNalloo. I'm doing
with a fellow Magnetun appreciator who you'll know very well, it's Dave Morris, hi Dave, how you doing?
Hi Andrew, this is, this is fun, it's nice to have to be able to chat about Magnetun and that sort of
thing. Yes and so what we're going to do for you is we've got a small chat about Magnetun and
how we both came to use and like it and then we'll play you some of our favourite tracks from Magnetun
until we think of them. For those of you that don't know, Magnetun is a music streaming and
downloading service and website if you like but as Dave will explain more than that but the thing
that attracted me to it was kind of fair trade for music in that it treated the way that musicians
get paid the royalties if you can call them that more fairly than other record labels might do.
I mean is that, is that how you came across Magnetun, Dave, on that basis?
It is yes, I can't remember how I saw it originally but the fact that it had this really
flexible model and was dating with the artist in an extremely fair way was one of the reasons
or I thought it was so great. I think it was somewhere like about 2003, 2004 or something like that
that I vaguely remember getting involved with it then. If you contacted them they sent you a great
big stack of cards that you could hand out to people and I remember sticking them all over the
place in my work. I don't know how many members that how many buyers of their products came out of
that but I certainly spread them around. Yeah well I think I came to it much later. It might
have been 2009-2010 about that time and yeah it must have been about that time because that's
when I finally ditched any use of Microsoft products from my day-to-day life. I was lucky that
was able to do that and of course once I've done that I thought actually this is fine so what else can
I what else in this more free open source creative commons world can I do and Magnetune was the
obvious one. I discovered Magnetune and I discovered the Electronic Frontier Foundation through
Humble Bundle at almost exactly the same time and then was absolutely astounded to discover
that the same chap John Buckwyn was involved and well not just involved but central to both.
Yeah I know I think I must have discovered that a bit later than you as I'd been using Magnetune
and you know that was in the days when you you looked on the site and saw something you liked and
then you could buy it straight off from the site and and download it and and I think I had a
problem or two or asked a question and I got an instant answer back from this guy called John Buckwyn
and thought oh who's oh right he's the he's the owner or whatever whatever CEO or whatever he is
and you know and then then started to realise that he was actually around in other things as well
and quite a quite a high profile guy if you if you knew where to look.
Yes I mean definitely you've certainly sort of mixes it on with the alpha geeks if you like
of that scene and I think I emailed him once to ask him if he would accept bitcoin that was
of many years ago when he emailed back and he said something that was interesting but
you know it was obviously working with the electronic frontier foundation to figure out the
legalities and practicalities of of doing so but I don't think they ever did except bitcoin
magnum unless unless I missed it but but later on I had another reason to contact him because I
couldn't log in so I I don't know if I emailed him or two days as the other person that I've
emailed there but so I think I emailed him both if not just him and I've got a very quick answer
and he very politely pointed out that I hadn't paid my subscription for over a year
and I was used to me because I thought I had a recurring subscription through Google Wallet
and he's he was very nice about it and he said look we're not going to charge you for all this
because I've been able to access magnitude all this time without paying for it and he said look
we're not going to claim money back from you for all that time you've been using it but could you
please re-subscribe of course already subscribe so I said more than that you've been so generous
I'm signing up for a live subscription now so that's exactly what I did then so I'm now a
life member of Magnition that's fantastic yeah he is he's a very it just seems to be a really
decent sort of guy my experience was that I had been buying stuff I even bought some of the CDs
you could buy physical CDs off of them as well though at the end of the day I wasn't sure that
was a that was a good idea but when it when it turned into monthly subscription I yeah I signed
up with that but then I retired so money was a little bit you know unknown once you you drop
from a salary to a pension you start thinking hmm am I spending my money well so I thought I'm
going to have to drop magnitude and I wrote to them and said really really sorry but I'm going to
have to cancel my membership and they came back and said well how about a discount on the on the
lifetime subscription they obviously computed that I'd used them so much that I'd paid a fair bit
over the years so I got I got a little bit of a sweetener on the on the lifetime subscription
which of course I accepted oh that was good awesome it was just very reasonable like that yeah
so the other thing that you mentioned and I know you've done an HPR episode and it before was
their API and I know nothing about that I'll be on what I've heard from you and I've forgotten
most of that's my memory for things I don't use as rather limited but can you can you
can you remind me what what can you do with the API well the the API is quite quite nice it's
primarily XML which you know is is I got involved in because I just felt like the challenge of
working with with XML and being able to parse it in an efficient way so you can go to the site and
pull down the entirety of their collection as a big XML file you can also get it as a sqlite database
but and then the the information in the download is contains the pointers to all of the music
and information and that's sort of I assume he uses it to to generate the website but I don't know
exactly but you can you can simply point at it and that gives you the download links for the
for the music so I'd written something around this which which allowed me to do that and and
download stuff in fact at that time my ISP was not being very generous with a monthly cap so I
wrote something that queued up my I saw things and thought oh I'd like that but I dare not just
now I'm going to hit hit the cap on my internet connection and so I wrote a queuing system to
so I can sort of run it on a on a periodic basis and and and gently download a few things and
also download and when the family weren't using the the internet and stuff like that so but it was
great that the interface allowed me to do things like that and I asked him questions about it along
the way a John Buckman and he was amazingly generous and coming back with explanations and things
I even found bugs in some of his XML and pointing them out to which he was he seemed to be very happy
that I'd done that and said right I'll fix it right away and and and he did in fact it was it was
a really pleasant interaction with with with him and with the company that's great I mean obviously
does care about it you know it's not something he's doing to just to to further his own his career
or profile or because you he feels he's going to make vast piles of cash or just although
maybe on some gate may do some of those things he's obviously doing it because he thinks it's
worthwhile and he well it sounds like he enjoys it certainly I can't think of any other explanation
for you know the the way we he operates and responds so well yeah yeah it's to to my sort of old
old ancient hippie view of the world it's it's the way everybody should be absolutely yes absolutely
completely completely agree the other aspect of it is that that means we can do this is that the
the way the music is licensed means that that we can then you can if once you are so you subscribe
to magnitude you can download the tracks and and I think he encourages you to to share them up to
with up to three of your friends or up to three times is that right David that's right that's
right yes he does it's I checked it it's still on the on the site so yeah which is in these days of
you know people being treated as pirates were merely for buying stuff it's it's so refreshing to
see isn't it indeed and and and another thing of course is that you can include it in podcasts as
long as they're non-commercial it's uh I think it's um I think they use creative commons
by essay nc I think it's version 1.0 so it's quite an old one but I'm sure it works but that means
that that I I have used a lot of magnitude in podcasts for that reason because I don't need to worry
about it and I'm looking into it as well we understand it as I don't know what license we're
going to use for this podcast but whatever it is the way the collections work with creative
commons licenses that's okay because as long as you're clear that the individual tracks that we use
have the license that magnitude gave them rather than anyone that we may use for the this podcast
yeah anything that but might it more restrictive I guess is what you mean yeah yes indeed indeed yes
and we yeah we can't change the license that magnitude use that we can license our speech however
we want but uh technically this hpr episode would be regarded as a collection in creative commons
terms yeah yeah yeah that's that's great it's it's great that we can do something like that it's uh
and use use music so often music you'd like to use is severely restricted and it's great to have
this freedom isn't it yeah and I'm going back to your old hip-hip-hip view of the world and I certainly
share that um but that side if you're a musician what is the number one thing you want to do with your
music surely it's to get it hard you know you're key you want to earn the living definitely but I'm
sure a musician gets paid piles of cash and under the promise that they never have their music
worked would be a very unhappy one oh absolutely yes yeah it's uh I think that musicians uh with
who are using magnitude must be pretty happy with the with the outcome um how could it be otherwise
against yes yes I suppose uh supposed there may be a conflict down the line when they if they were
to get a you know a more regular record deal which would necessitate them having to leave magnitude
because magnitude I think has no problem with more traditional record deals I don't think in that
direction it's fine but a lot of record labels uh music labels would not like a musician to be
giving away their music in the magnitude in a way I can see that it's causing a conflict for
musicians I don't know how often that has occurred but I can see that being potentially a problem
I do have one or two albums that I've downloaded in the distant past which have been
vanished from magnitude and when you check you can see that the uh that the musician has has
got a got a deal with a regular label and presumably that's what you just described happened
yes I think I did I did remember reading about that somewhere but I couldn't recall the details
so it doesn't surprise me but uh but I mean to be honest most musicians barely skate by I mean
we talk about people on the on a on a national minimum wage that doesn't apply to artists does it
really I mean artists you know when you look at how much money most artists are not talking mainstream
artists but most artists music musicians in particular it's very hard to earn a decent
living from being an artist so I can't really begrudge them too much if if they have to
if they have to go down that route oh absolutely not no no whatever whatever's available
but I should say my son is studying for a mute um what would it be a BA in music at the moment
and with a view to getting something something of a living at the end of it so so it's pretty close
to to to my heart that that view yeah and I should say that one of my you know I've had
I've had friends who went into music and struggled for years being in bands and one of them has
become extremely successful so it does happen but but he's one out of hundreds that I've maybe
met in my you know teens in early 20s that has made successful career out of it yeah yeah it's
it's not a guarantee of riches by any means it's quite the opposite in many cases
oh no it did not so would you like to introduce your first track Dave okay well my first one
I should say I have very very broad tastes in in music and magazines great from that point
of view because it does have a pretty wide range of stuff um I quite like electronic and ambient
music and quite a lot of classical as well but I've kept away from the classical stuff in this
particular case my first track is by the artist I think you would pronounce it Mokov M-OK H-O-V and
the album is called Future Hope and I've chosen the track Echo Love um this is a musician from Russia
originally um but raised in the US and uh he's uh he's a prolific traveler and likes to to to go
around the world to play his various uh bits of music so um electronic style music is very much his
thing and to I find this one very very nice
um
I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't
know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about
I don't know what I'm talking about
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Anything that man tells me will be alive.
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too new. So after I've heard this album several times, then it let you see it becomes perfect
for coding or writing. Yeah, it's a great find. I'll be a producer's more. Yeah. Okay, so what's
your next track, Dave? So my next track is somewhat different from the ones you've heard so far.
The artist is Yumi Kurosawa and the album is called Beginning of a Journey, which I think is
nice tidal, actually. It sort of makes me think of, you know, traveling and having fun doing
things like that. The track I've chosen is Inner Space and the genre is world, world style music.
And this is played on the 21 String Coto, a Japanese instrument.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
yeah, yeah
yeah, I, I, I, I, I've I've worked on that. I've worked on that. I've worked on that. I've worked on that.
That song.
Yeah, it's part of it.
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I finished recording on the album and sadly we don't have more of a live
first heard it but in other words I think that album is one that's grown in me
tremendously over the last few years. Yes, I know what you mean. I had great
difficulty choosing which track to recommend here and I'd listen to it
several times in fact to try and choose one and yeah it is it's a strange
strange sort of style of music if you're not used to it. I quite like Asian
music anyway but I found this one to be really delightful yet not ancient
like if you listen to Asian music at all Chinese music and so on you can
some of it can be very austere perhaps it would be the word and and a little
hard to get into whereas this has got a Western influence as well and it's not
just pure instrumental there are other other sounds. She refers to them as
computer sounds in these in these tracks as well so I think that's
possibly why it appeals so much to me anyway. Yes and I think the coat was a
beautiful instrument I don't know much about it I've never actually seen a real
coat to my knowledge but I do remember when I got my first proper musical
keyboard that good sounds and it was a Roland D10 back in 1990. What I
remember is that the coat was sound on that was one of my favourites. I actually
put it in tech community it's not as good as a real coat or any stretch of
imagination but there's something about the sound of a coat that really
appeals to me as well so quite apart from obviously she's a down to
musician there are instrument of choice is one that I approve of. Yeah it's I
think I'm not sure the origin of the instrument I've not really researched this
very much but I've seen similar looking instruments in Chinese music I
imagine that they might have a common common source common ancestor and when I
first came across I thought it was going to be a hammered instrument but I don't
think it is purely plucked. I was wondering if it was a bit like the nearest
University of Australia so Eastern European equivalent would be the Zither but
that's hammered isn't it or is it plucked I can't remember. I think it's plucked
oh no actually it might be both yeah I think I vaguely remember from long ago
seeing a Zither. It used to be somebody who played the Zither on the Telly quite a
lot I can't remember who it was now but this is going back a long way and
and being absolutely captivated by the sound of it and it was definitely plucked
it was held sort of it held up on sort of an angle on perched on the on the top
of the thigh and then played as if you had a little harp or something like that.
Right here I should find out more about these things it's also worth noting
that I might well have chosen not that track perhaps but certainly I
track off that album from Yumi Kurosawa if Dave hadn't beat me to it and
I understand that that might have happened in the reverse direction with my
previous track. Absolutely yes there's a certain amount of crossing of the
strain here going on I think. Yes well I think we do have reasonably similar musical
tastes so I think my next track is going to be I don't think it is going to be
by a chap from I think it's from Canada called Sandi Pabandari and I think he came
to magnitude recently only in the last year or maybe last two years and he's
produced an album called dive volume 1 volume 2 also on magnitude there's
so many tracks I could have picked from this but I'm going to pick one of my
favorite which is quite a quite a moody slightly don't beat one called rich in
I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I
So what do you make of that, Dave? I like that very much it I you haven't to be quite honest you've not surprised me very much here, Andrew
With any of your choices apart from your no the one you're going to do I'm jumping ahead here I've got me in the wrong order on my on my crib sheet here
Yeah, so this one I already have in my collection and have listened to it with great pleasure and enjoy it very much it's a very much an electronic thing which I love
And this one I think has a water-based theme which which I think is is really nice and I like the ethereal quality of it
It's it's again another thing I would listen to in the background and also you know on headphones while we're doing the washing up or something as well
Yeah well I'm sorry I'm not surprising you I think for if we do this again you're going to get a track of white noise with some random clicking sounds on it's just a surprise you
Well I'll have to yeah unfortunately we're stricken ourselves to magnitude I could I could go and get some of my son's recommendations
was he's heavily into people like Philip Glass and Steve Reich which is a whole different world of things
Oh yes yes I do minimalist composer yes I know what are them
Yeah no I like to I like Sandy bandari strangely enough I like that was one of the albums that I got off magnitude I think John Buckman he sends
all emails if it started every week or maybe it's not it's less frequently than that with some recommendations of new albums
and that was one of them as soon as I heard I just loved Sandy bandari's die volume one oddly enough die volume two which I was looking forward to because I hadn't come out
it was a bit of a delay for the second volume two came out really I'm not that fussed about it so I'm a bit disappointed why is volume one really
totally blew me away why is it that blew me away but volume two well it's good but you know not not special
yeah I can't I've got it but I can't say I've paid it a great deal of attention which probably says volumes but
but yeah I've had the same experience first of all I do do what you said and listen to his recommendations
and then on occasion I've thought oh I love that so I download it and then I put all the other albums of that artist
as long as there's not too many in the in the queue and downloads those in in due course and then you know there's a few
there's a few disappointments sometimes there you go it's just the way of it I guess
yeah I mean to be fair to the artists there you know it must be a load of times when you just produce just a great album for some reason
and then of course everything you do thereafter has to live up to that and that's tough call for anyone you know I must be
fair yeah so it's not that it's not the title two isn't any good I'm not saying that at all it's just the
definitely one so good that it's hard act to follow yeah and it's it's personal opinion anyway I mean
these are not absolutes in any sense so you know this has has to be taken at that point of your in mind
yes absolutely yes that's a very good point yes so that brings us on to your your final track
and the penult but track in this episode what's that going to be deep right well my last choice
is from an artist called Kalabi and he's made a couple of albums called music for
televisions with a with an S on the end which I think it's quite fun I enjoy that and this is volume
two and the track is called organoid
yeah I quite I quite like Kalabi I have to say of this three of the tracks we've played so far
it's probably my least favorite but it's good gentle I think what although I think it's good
what that why it doesn't grab me is somehow lacks a bit of emotion somehow a little too
chilled from from my liking more much more background music but it's still good yeah I yeah I think
you're probably right I quite like background music sometimes though it's you know if I want
stuff that I really sit and concentrate on I tend to go for the classical stuff and
and these sorts of things are just you know things that bring a smile to my face
but but I don't expend a huge amount of brain power on them yeah and I liked your observation
so I thought that the title was a bit strange music for televisions as if somehow it
would be televisions listening to the music well I know that's what that's sort of
appeal to me I imagined a ring of TVs all sat there listening to this stuff
I'm glad you thought that thought the second yeah it's exactly what I was thinking
you sort of hinted at it before the track began but yeah but I thought it was and it
might be deliberate actually because I think it's not I thought maybe it was a lost in
translation thing maybe but I think Kalabi is is yeah well it lives in Cheshire
England doesn't mean to say he's the real name Sai Oliver no I think probably given
that I think like he he must have intended this about the joke there yes I think
somewhere in the album art I've seen I can't think where it is now but I've seen
pictures of sort of human shapes with TVs on their heads or was that in my brain
was I having a funny of my brain was was going off on its own there somewhere
oh yes I have to say for a lot of these tracks the album art is actually
exceptionally good and I was one of them I forget which one it might be Markov
that we did at the beginning has got the strangest contraption on no it's not
Markov I forget which one is but you know what did you see the one I'm in Dave
it's like it's like some kind of lost giant listening device to addles oh yes
yes I know I was I was one I saw that and I wondered I wonder if we can
actually add that to the show notes we probably not allowed to but but yes it's
it's a it's a guy sort of sat in a in a field or something with these strange
things effectively stuck in his in his ears or giant giant ear extensions ear
trumpets it was it was it's it's the picture that's used on Kalabi's profile
page and you're absolutely right the the album art for music for television
is volume two is a rather the ejected lifting person in a tracksuit with
television and also television for the head and then lots of kind of sci fi
stuff going on in the background and a rather dramatic mountainous landscape
so it's worth a look it's very amusing and interesting yes you also have to
visit your animated TVs of some sort listening to that or making it I don't
know quite what's going on there but it's fun it certainly is certainly is so
and that brings us to the last track and I think the dear Dave isn't that we're
going to play this last track and just let that be the end of the episode
because it is also the longest longest track so maybe we talk about this one in
advance a little bit this by a chap called Robert Rich and it's I don't know how
you pronounce the name of the album but it's called Jew aqua D U E A C Q U E
I thought it's something to do with music but I'm not sure what he refers to
Italy in his in his notes and I wondered if that was Italian not not being an
Italian speaker and perhaps it was duet aqua or something oh yes you're right it
was recorded and it was recorded in Italy so maybe it's something like that yeah
could be anyway whatever the title is this is it's ambient stuff it
sounds like to me time stretched off and if you don't it actually doesn't say in
the album that's what it is but but what time stretched music is it was I
guess it would pop top in the late 90s just when computers were maybe able
to do it but you take a short sound it could be like even 20 seconds long and
you expand it maybe up to several minutes and you sort of have a computer
algorithm fill in the gap the gaps to make it sound pleasant to the ear now
it sounds to me this might be what Robert Rich is doing here might not be but
anyway it sounds like that but it's actually from a live event which is
create remarkable yeah I've heard I haven't got this particular one so this
was new to me so you know you did catch me off guard there a little bit but it
some of his other stuff as well is is is similarly strange of the other
world perhaps is another way of putting it but but fascinating though because
of that to me anyway yes I find I find it quite interesting some of his
later works I don't that this one is my favourite one and there's lots of
later works on magnitude some stranger on this and some less strange
they're world worth listening to but to me this is the one that I like the most
anyway just to see that it's been a real pleasure doing this with with you
Dave in any last remarks before we pass over to our final artist it's been a lot of fun
actually to do this it's it's you know it's amazing to have been sat here listening
to magnitude stuff for years and years and years now I think yeah I like this but
nobody else in my family thinks much of it and I wondered if any obviously
people are buying it but it's very very nice to meet somebody else who he's
also enjoying it as much as I and so it's been in a great pleasure thanks Andrew
yeah indeed indeed it was good and it took us quite a while to get into recording
this I can tell you more than a month of field field field time slot so it was good
that we finally did it anyway this is the last track and it's Robert Rich
Juie at Quay or at Quay whatever
you
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