hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr3676.txt

Episode: 3676
Title: HPR3676: HPR Community News for August 2022
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3676/hpr3676.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 03:40:04

---

This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3676 from Monday the 5th of September 2022.
Today's show is entitled HPR Community News for August 2022.
It is part of the series HPR Community News.
It is hosted by HPR Volunteers Ron Dave, Ken and Monica Meck and is about 176 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is join us for this near 3 hour saga where HPR Volunteers talk about shows
released in comments posted in August 2022.
Hi everybody, my name is Ken Fallon and you're listening to another episode of Hacker Public Radio.
This is the Community News for August 2022.
Joining me this evening is Dave.
Hello Dave Morris from Edinburgh and Ron.
Ron from Baltimore and I'm calling in from the Netherlands.
The Community News is a monthly look at what's been going on in the HPR Community
and it's a regular show scheduled for the first Monday of the month, anyone can join
but we like people to have listened to all the episodes so we can get feedback on them.
And as ever Dave will introduce the new hosts.
Yes we have two new hosts, two, that's wonderful.
We have Stash, who was a commenter for a bit
and I think we sort of hinted, yes and he has done that very thing
and we've got I think I'm not quite sure how he pronounced
I would go for the simplest one, simplest pronunciation, hypernike is it?
Yes, that's what I use in the text just each year.
Yeah, yeah, okay, well if it's wrong please let us know.
Right, I explained what we're doing here
and so let's go into it first of all we go through last one's show and see if there was any
comments or observations. And the first show was the HITFURE Community News itself
and Mike Ray says API I would use the API if there was one.
I have not published a show in years despite having a lot of subjects to talk about.
I posted the last one before the HIT the FTP option went away for some reason
I have an aversion to fighting with what I see as a complex number of steps necessary
to publish a show, especially as I would never publish a show without complex notes.
And I would enjoy writing a planned for the API possibly in Perl
since Perl is the best computer programming language ever invented.
Says Mike.
Yes Mike, yes, well what can I say?
Nail on head being hit, yeah.
Cassie, are you dissenting opinions on this particular audience?
So Kevin O'Brien says comment number two, High Winds.
And this is a comment about the fact that we discussed what it would be like to drive the RV
that he was describing in High Winds. We didn't have much problem with winds for
two reasons. First, when you drive more slowly, there is less chance of wind to blow you around.
Secondly, our truck is bigger than a pickup. It's a freight line of sport chassis.
So those, it's like one of that you've got a driver's section on the front and you've got a
seat or a sleeping compartment behind them, there's the Hitch area.
All right, pretty cool, pretty cool.
Yep, yep, it's still, I still feel it might be a bit wobbly in a strong wind, but maybe the
they're avoiding the winds, which is a good thing to do. I live in Scotland wind, the
crosswind is a thing indeed. So the first real show of the month was registered memory,
which is not, we're confused with ECC memory, although memory modules often use both technologies
by JWP who is making me realize how little I know about computer hardware since I stopped
finding it interesting. Yeah, same here, same here. I'm getting some useful stuff from JWP here,
and yeah, I didn't know any of it. Really? I just knew that was memory, that was it.
Yeah, I'm really loving all his trips back through these various like hardware issues and
it just reminds me not how much I hate making hardware decisions because they always seem to be wrong.
Yep, yeah, absolutely pain. Hello, HPR, and this is from Stasha AF, long time listener for
some color. Make a great job. Yeah, he was very, he was very quick, he was, you know, in and out,
and you know, we're through the corridor very fast, but good to have him on board.
Yeah, I think you took our comment and introduced yourself very literally.
And now the next time he's passed on through, he can come into the, into the
janitor's cafe cafeteria and sit down and we'll have a cup of coffee and ask
some pertinent questions that we might be able to get more shows out of him.
He does. Go on, sorry. I was going to say, although maybe just getting in and
giving that quick one is a good way to do it because I still have a, I think, a how I got into tech
episode. I was getting somewhere on my hard drive that never actually got published.
Yep, well, speaking of which Stasha AF is about to come up a bit later on with the how I
got into tech shows. We put, we tripped him up on the mop of, of doom there just as he told
he was leaving the building, threw the mop down and that was what I was doing. I like it, yeah,
that's it. We needed drawing him. We needed, we needed a visual representation of that, I think.
Excellent, excellent. I have had this idea of doing a show where I give a tour around
HPR towers passing by the coffee corner and the generous houses and I'll pass the garage
section where all the RVs are and the fold up bikes and then at the back is the river where people
are freshwars of swimming, etc. Except if you couldn't have somebody could do a script for that,
and then you'll cut in the people as you walk and pass the door, you hear Klatu and
various different people over the kind of awesome.
Sounds like an HPR text adventure. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, right there.
Norrist who has not unwittingly possibly as yet unaware that he has volunteered himself to take over
the free culture podcast page. I don't know if we've broken that sad news to him as yet.
I don't actually know what we might back up, but we would pretend you didn't hear that anyway,
pretend you didn't hear that. Using the data of the org feed to create the website and this is
this is excellent in so far as I don't think you can recreate the website but you can create everything
else based on the RSS feed. And there were a few things in here that we were missing tags
should definitely be included into the web page. But I think we've discussed that before, Dave,
they to put the structure that we have for the internet archive pages into the
into the algorithm and indeed run for your HPR generation website in there also.
Yeah, he did sort of inspire me to do my episode too since he's really been cranking out some nice
episodes on this together. Yeah, it was a great idea actually. I thought it sounded very
impressive. What he'd done there as a challenge. I think he was going for that. So really good for him.
If there's stuff that we can add to the feed, we will do that to make it easier for people to
store up our data because that's what we're all about sharing knowledge. So really cool. I really
was chuffed. This is one of those that you're listening to and you go, hmm, did somebody just
volunteer for HPR here? And the following day we had been RC with BSD for Linux users and this was
in my personal opinion, a fantastic show as it reminded me the enthusiasm I had for Linux when
when I came to Linux and it had me wondering should I should I maybe install the BSD distro
just or BSD not distro it's not distro it's a flavor flavor thank you flavor BSD flavor to see
just to see yeah I've always I've like done I'm sort of the same like I've read about them a lot
I remember when Dragonfly BSD was first introduced I just never like got around to either
loading it on a hardware or trying it in a VM. I have a slight reluctance which is not
justified at all but just because I spent a few years using the original BSD versions
back in the in the day and some of those Unix versions were really clunky but then so
with some of the non BSD so we had a system system five was it. I was it called the one that ran
on HP's HP UX that's a very strange beast that was a really really unusable version of Unix I
found it never did you know if you wanted to delete something you had you had to do control
age but only when there was a following wind you know it was it was better just to delete the
old damn line and then type it in again those sorts of things nobody seemed to know how to fix that
so yeah it's so really I should actually have a go at this I see that cloud do is running
a BSD variant on a one of these little e-tripley PCs so maybe that's the thing I should do
how do you also comment it so shall I do his comments yeah cloud do em says excellent breakdown of
BSD great coverage of BSD and its descendants thoroughly enjoyed it well done I had a different
comment plan which went a bit long I too tend to ramble a bit low so as Ken advises I've decided
to make a personal response to this show which I'll upload soon I'm over due for a show anyway
smiley face yes yes do you want to take the next one Ron? Sure the next comment is by Norris why I use
open BSD and free BSD my favorite BSD is open BSD for all the reasons you described I use open
BSD in my home router because of the project's focus on security I also have a think pad mostly
runs Linux but I also have a dual boot open BSD current I use free BSD on my home server for
jails manage with lockage and ZFS cool and Phoenix says suggestion great video it will be amazing
if you create a C programming series what? Well I like to show so do shows on other stuff please
was there a video with this? Did you just let a spam find through? I don't know maybe Phoenix you
need to record a show now even if you are a spammer because how how you managed to get through
our anti spam selection? Yes absolutely absolutely it was it was a sleep that day I think yes yes
but I find that people call videos podcasts and podcast videos in various contexts but so I didn't
pay a great heat to them honestly yeah I think you did mention C programming during the episodes
Kabil's brand says I think it's my turn as NEP? Yeah go for it says I love the show
fantastic show and great show notes I hope you get more from you yes good show notes actually
yeah yeah absolutely some excellent stuff I noticed with a lovely little show about the important
or small toy projects and this one was inspired by the Haskell show HPR 355 is how I'm learning
Haskell by Tukotor Natal if I'm not mistaken yeah just do something small project nothing big
yeah and for that he did lovely there's a lovely image where they've got the various different
and it takes this is this is where he takes free culture podcasts.org feed and all
not feed but list and uses it and then puts the figures out how recent they've been doing the
shows and then if they're doing okay a little bit hide or pub feed and that would be that would
be an excellent one for that site that's I'd need a lot of love and attention actually and stuff
like this would be very good for it yeah yeah the I wrote a script to do some of this but it's not
had any attention for I don't know a couple of years or something so yeah the whole project does
need some some TLC I think yeah it was brought up fairly fast to do the fast thing and
it's a good idea it's just some TLC is it's no harm no harm and Roland do you want to do the
comment sure let me just go down there so let's see supposed to buy some guy on the internet
love this show I love this type of content the ability to create from thin air whatever you want
even if it's not exactly in demand it's always feels like I'm listening to amaze crafting
new magical items just because of the other one was out of reach perfect and nicely said
okay and from the man himself small times to said man how some guy on the internet maintains
their Linux box part one I was like to see that too on the show part one and yeah this was
about backing up and stuff not how I would do it but then again how I'm doing it so infrequently you
got the last laugh that's uh yeah I really enjoy the way he go ahead over oh sorry Ken I was just
gonna say yeah I'm thinking some guy on the internet is slowly not becoming such a small time
sis admin I mean yeah it's really uh really embrace something I mean his backups are way more
intricate and consistent than mine or yes yeah it's an interesting take on the solution
yeah quite impressive actually yeah I love the uh cool good habits yeah that's something you
don't want to see in the backup script fantastic and working prion says thank you thanks for the
shout out thank you for sharing how you maintain the system the central folder is well worth backing
up keep a good keep up the good work I enjoy your show and look forward to hearing more and Kevin
Kevin O'Brien oh Kevin O'Brien says thank you thanks for the shout out I think all of us share
our information to help each other and I love your show super the Linux and those HPRs in our
working and this was a feedback on the show that I did twin says painful this is painful to listen
to do I'm provided zero value how do we get the Linux in those kicked off HPR right not not the
most positive comments ever but there's there's going to be more of that unfortunately some of the
free is all very creative some guy on the internet says I have more listeners than stars in the
universe I got a great laugh from this show more listeners than people in the galaxy law that's
the first time I've ever heard Martin clearly his audio is usually too low for me to hear playing
the Ken Sandbite was a nice touch as well good stuff excellent you can trust some guy on the
internet to bring the positive how to people love it yes some dodgy guys developing a HPR
static site generator generating a lot of spam in my inbox because I see all your commits
yeah they'll just let anybody do that sort of thing these things yeah as well
uh shall I read the the comment please do yeah uh from well let's let's say what you do in
first start describe your show so uh in this episode uh Rowan law talks about um generating
a static site web but uh static site generator for HPR um hey it's right now it's
based in that arcane pearl language everybody keeps talking about and um using the template toolkit
which is actually a very um awesome module for pearl um and it's it's amazing what you can do
with it it really is yeah um I don't know if you want a quick status update I think I've got please
yes now will be a good time for status update okay I do I think I'd say I'm like at that
95% uh stage now if there's some more feeds I need to generate um in RSS but I think I have all
the pages working there's some few little uh not quite looking exactly like um the HPR tweaks
like CSS or maybe just changing the HTML a little bit and the only other thing I can't do now
is the number of days until the next um the next episode is or next slot is open but I think I
have all the other dynamic stuff figured out at this point with uh your help there thank you
we have uh they you could choose actually and use the stats.php page a lot of the stuff is coming
from the stats.php page and you could kind of take it from there I don't know what what your
approach is uh what what um if you can fix it using the tooling that's great but if you can't then
uh yeah and I think the whole uploading stuff anyway is always going to be for the shorter
well for the short medium term it's going to need a database and it's going to need to be a more
in place otherwise we can't block the reservations. Right right I know um yeah I can look into it I
can maybe just have a second script that runs or just add something specific for the generator to
grab it and parse that somehow um but everything else I've been able to get from using um
SQL light um from the date you know from the dump using that uh converter script I found so
that's really nice so we don't really you know at at some point if we switch over to you know
that directly I mean the coach you know will work particularly if we keep the same schema and then
we can work on it to change the schema. I actually want to fix a lot of the pages as well I think
those two all over the shop but you can do what you're doing then we switch over and then we can do
the fixed. Okay it sounds good um so yeah I guess my biggest thing now is um just if I can get a
few more eyes on the page with just like this doesn't quite look right or this doesn't work or
you miss this link I mean I I've run a link I can't remember what the tool is off the top of my
head right now that goes through and it'll tell me and I can sort of guess which ones are just
because they're pointing you know at something I haven't done and then there's some pages I'm just
not going to do and I you know you know you can fix the links. I'm just making good progress. Go
over. I said overall we're making good progress. Yeah yes and some of the pages we might
if you're baking your head against wall some of the pages we can maybe just get rid of or
can't fix one fix. Okay yeah. Anyway some guy in the internet says more magic I didn't know how
you guys remember all these languages I have to jump from uh jump into the man page for almost
everything is purl one of your daily languages and is it better for databases than Python great show
so you can answer that yourself. Yeah so like I think I mentioned in my episode I did get into purl
early like in my early days um that was sort of the CGI scripting language for doing anything dynamic
at the time um and I've done some stuff with it over the years I think part of it is you'll find
the more programming you do but you'll there's just a lot of similarities in um concepts between
programming languages so once you sort of grasp that it's like oh I just need to figure out how to
write it correctly I mean there's more concepts you learn some languages have concepts like you
know you get into maps or closures and all that fun stuff and that's a little funky uh purl this
is actually taking me probably longer than I would have because it's been so long since I've
used purl and purl has some funky ways to do argument passing and returning uh just based on
its I guess age and the concepts uh so you actually get into pointer the referencing and all
sorts of fun stuff that made my head spin a little bit uh until I finally got things working.
Yes but actually that temperature thing now which it looks really logical actually.
Yeah the template language is actually made that's sort of the nice and easy part it was the
actual site generator itself yeah like the the program part that where things like
took me a little while sometimes like I like the function logic would work but then it was just like
getting the variables into it and out of it which was the hard part.
Yeah yes yes it's uh yeah I would admit that purl does have some strange and wonderful ways
about it but but it's it's quite powerful once you once you get your head around some of the
witnesses um I think the first post script I ever wrote was we were running we just started to
run unique systems we were running yellow pages on it and yellow pages this thing that lets you
identify the groupings of your users and and give permissions and access to things but
it's a very fragile structure and it's a sort of tree-like thing which if it gets unbalanced things
go completely bad that we were loading users into this thing and it was going really really bad
so you have to balance it but there's no tools to do or there weren't any tools at that point
so I wrote a post script which absorbed all of this weird tree structure thing with internal links
between the the the data structure and then balanced that and then wrote it back out again
and that solved the problem but I was amazed that it was possible to do it so nicely but yeah
lots of dereferencing you know but I'd been an assembler programmer so I wasn't too fazed by that
but yeah yeah it's I do understand if anybody goes to purl and goes what no
and as far as databases go I think one of the other nice thing about purl is the CPAN the
comprehensive pro archive network which is sort of like the granddaddy of all like you know
node like or apt like kind of you know package repositories and if there is just something for
everything whether it's easier than Python's module I mean you can find what you need to get done
is basically what what happens now there may be 20 ways 20 different modules and you've got to
find a good one but I'll yeah so far like it was just the Pearl DVI and DVD modules and it just
worked yeah it's quite a nice nice interface but my son's currently using a no RM in Python's part
of his job and he's finding he hates the no RM because he learned databases from the ground up
and he finds the RM removes his view a bit more and same with with pillars there are ORMs
for for for databases as well but whether you want to use them I don't know why I certainly don't
okay shall we go from purl to basic following day was a hookah with we continue our technological
archaeology to explore the old warhouse does this time it's in basic somebody want to read
Beezer's comment I think it's probably my turn I don't think I've said much lately our Beezer says
basic lives on I think it's a real pity that basic is not taken seriously by more developers
I agree that in its early days it was well basic but it evolved into a very powerful development
platform in the guides of visual basic productivity was far higher than with visual C++ and for what
few low level functions it couldn't support you could always create a DLL using CLC++ and pull that
in from visual basic Linux we still have gambas which is easily the fastest way to create a Linux
GUI application it's very similar to visual basic and its flavor of basic takes the language
to a level beyond even VB for projects where I complete freedom of choice I use nothing else
it runs faster than Python and for GUI apps is far simpler and more productive never heard of us
definitely a shoulder if not a series hmm I've tinkered with it but I don't know well a collaboration
series wow I think I think Beezer would be would be the lead lead uh that's a particularly
partnership yeah and by some guy on the internet visual basics 6.0 for the win how many of you
used Yahoo messenger during the win 98 era I remember these software handguns called booters
they were created using VB and everyone had one it was a wild west on the internet and lots of
feelings were hurt following by the BSD blue screen of death good times no idea what those were
booters yeah that one I hadn't heard of either no also a show okay yep yep ham radio testing
congratulations archer 72 or did I spoil it I think I spoiled it do I have to go back in it is
okay archer 72 well done ham radio license not that hard put in some time and effort
yeah well done absolutely well done yeah but I'm I'm more more more toying with the idea of going
ahead and and doing that once I get done the uh hack up up the radio website super yes I was
well I was able to say that I was going to say do both and archer 72 says that the left out
and the show notes cave magnifier was the tool I mentioned at the show also known as cave mag
so the next day we have part one of the new year's eve show 2021 2022
who the mobile server is provided by delwin the site by josh stream and etherpad by honky
and the show notes by my all-time hero hp lovecraft and excellent excellent job they have done
making links to every single thing that was mentioned in it
brilliant absolutely that the dedication there is amazing I don't know yeah only you and i
Dave will truly appreciate the amount of effort that that is taken or any of the people who have
gone around and helped us with their fixing the tags and stuff that you have to you can't just listen
you have to listen and then start and they go what was I rewind 14 times because of the accent
and then find the page find the links unbelievable the amount of work but easily took twice or three times
the length of these shows and these shows were 24 hours so this was a job and a half
well done yes and what the show notes are amazing I'm really impressed I was amazed um I was
prattling on about having fiber um in sort of my house and I'd mentioned the company and there's
a link to the company everything wow yes yes there's also a great bunch of digital equipment
thingies in the in the list I see digital equipment cooperation the ms deck alpha blah blah blah
haha he really you can even I know they the hbr new show is quite a handful to to absorb
all the day but the show notes really help they you can always there for that bit or
I was talking there or that somebody else or that has to be whoever come along so yeah very good
Yeah, brilliant.
I, uh, um, HP Lovecraft is, is, uh, uh, frequency, um, Linux logcast, uh, podcast and, um,
Macedon channel.
So, all right, so yeah, I went over there because I do visit them occasionally and, uh, sent
them congratulations for the work done there.
So yeah.
Fantastic.
Well, the next day, how I got into tech as promised was stash a f of a fox strat, uh,
and from deletion command.com in windows to tinkering circuit python.
And there's a thing that I'd like more shows on actually circuit python because I'd like
to know why is it easier to use than Arduino or, you know, the, the version of C.
That's in Arduino or, uh, competing with micropython, I think, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's that?
Is that the a different version of the circuit python?
I don't sure.
I don't really got into that.
Not sure, Dave, because nobody's submitted a show about it.
This is absolutely.
I was just reinforcing what you're saying there.
I get all my tech info from HBO.
Who's turners that to do a, um, wrong, you could do DNT's, come on.
Okay.
DNT.
Welcome.
Great show.
The command.com story with, with shout out to a hookah was well received, looking forward
to more.
So the next day we had some guy on the internet with secrets, has conversations.
I had to, uh, had to chuckle at this one, how, how to properly create a tinfoil has.
Absolutely.
Awesome.
Um, but brings up lots of interesting discussions about.
Uh, monitoring and knowing where you are, and I was thinking, actually, I was listening
to this on the way from the bus into work.
And every time I've been passing there, this show has popped into my head.
And I was thinking, well, actually, even if I didn't have a phone, it would be fairly obvious
to identify where I was of a day, because if I'm not at home, then I'm on this train following
this line into this station, taking that bus, going to this place, sitting there and going
back, you know, people are creatures of habits.
So all the observation isn't really necessary if you did the legwork.
That's right.
It was done before everybody had tracking devices in their pockets, but, uh, yeah, yeah.
But it's so, so, so much easier.
This is why I always turn off the location thing.
Except when I'm, you know, using the Google map or something.
Yeah.
But even that, you know, they can tell us right now, because your average tower is divided
into three different sections.
So, uh, they can tell the direction from that tower, from that tower, and that tower, and they
get you a general area.
So, if the one and over, you are the will.
Yeah.
The tinfoil hat was for your phone, then.
The tinfoil hat was for your head, Dave.
One of Spoon says, serious talking.
Good to hear somebody reminding others that some tinfoil may go a long way when folded
correctly.
Scary biscuits aside, I do occasionally hold a sheet of animeleum foil between myself and
a rescued microwave oven.
Sintylations.
Sintylations.
Sintylations will show up better in the dark by which means and holes might be revealed.
That actually, if that was anybody else, right?
Anybody else in the network with the exception of maybe, um, let me see.
I'm going to have to find one second.
Great.
Let's try Trunkett.
Silence that, shall we?
Sigflop.
One second.
Yes.
Sigflop.
With the exception of Sigflop, I wouldn't think that there were been serious about taking microwave ovens
partable.
One of Spoon's possibly mechiototic would be, uh, on the list of people who might try that.
Shows appreciated as ever.
Mm-hmm.
It's pretty scary.
Thanks microwave ovens.
Monochromic is in the channel.
No monochromic.
We do not edit.
We hate editing.
We do do Trunkett silence.
Uh, so.
What else?
Where are we?
Sigflop conversations.
Next show was I talk about all the reasons I love Unix and this of course has to be been RC.
And this was a good, uh, a good rundown actually.
I liked the idea that, um, literally you can, uh, do a TTY dump to a file.
I was wondering what it was doing the show notes was that, you know, pre-block correct or not.
And then it meds that.
And you have to listen to the show to find out what I'm on about.
Brilliant show notes by the way.
Yes, I think I must have tuned out for some of it.
I'll go and read the notes, but, uh, yeah, what I heard was amazing.
Really, really impressive.
Um, he's, he's into making fairly, um, chunky shows.
I think this one was nearly an hour.
So, uh, but so it was great to hear his enthusiasm, um, and, uh, and depth of knowledge too.
Sure.
Uh, I commented on this.
The one thing that he did mention was file extensions are valid.
Something upstairs, one moment.
Uh, okay.
Um, yeah, kids keep the ball into the background.
Um, yeah, I commented file extensions are valid.
Relying on them is not a good idea, but using them as fine.
It also fits right into other conventions such as the location of the local and system binary files.
Uh, relying on the system to determine the file type is slow.
And I do a time LS, um, of a, of a lot of files directory.
And that's only took point zero, six seconds.
And then doing the same thing, uh, for a file, the file command to identify what type of file that is.
That took two minutes.
So, furthermore, they help in giving you a rough idea.
What to expect.
This is useful when searching.
And you're thinking some Python file, which I downloaded yesterday,
would limit modified.
So you could do your search limits.
It's to modified time and the py extension.
So don't throw the baby out of the bathwater.
I guess I'll take the next one.
Uh, I hyper night, bind mount.
Hi.
I've been artsy.
Actually, bind mounts are very useful for, uh, change route, true routes.
Easy.
You can have the same dev directory as your actual OS.
By the way, it would be interesting to hear and open the, uh, the podcast from you.
Yes.
Thank you, hyper.
Good.
Good.
So yeah, some guy on the internet says I like file extensions.
Well, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know,
you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know,
you know, you know, you know, you know, I like file extensions.
What can set also in viewing files.
For example bid,
twittlemarkdownful.mide file extensions and millimeters takes highlighting.
Otherwise, we'd have to read markdown like,
I said, as we do.
I insist.
Yes.
That's what's been happening to my markdown.
He's down to certain pigeons coming enter it.
Yeah, yes, yes.
Now you know, it's, it's a good point.
When I was pundering this after hearing this,
I was reading the comment.
You're back peddling them.
Oh, the crap I've got from you over the years
of our phylic searches.
What?
It's very useful in the context of VIM.
Though I must admit that all pretty much,
no, all of my postscripts do not end in .PL
because I use the mode line function that VIM offers
where you stick a comment at the front
or at the back of the file that says,
run, use such and such as syntax
and oh, and by the way, set the tab stops to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Which is amazing and useful thing.
So I don't, the other thing that it will do
is it'll look for the hash bang, the start,
which indicates, you know, which interpreter to run it through.
So, but I don't want all of my chairs
to be called chaired or CH.
Yeah, but you are called Dave Morris.
You are called Dave.
Oh, true, true, yeah, yeah.
But an extension is not a surname, it's just a,
it's a, it's a, it's like having a label on your headset.
I'm human, I'm not an android.
No, no, no, it is, it's a namespace.
It puts it into the namespace of,
but why are you using this?
Now, I get what he's saying that we shouldn't be relying on that
totally, but you know, I can understand that you are Dave Morris,
but you might also be related to Dave Morris.
Is it, are the marises with, you know,
SIS or something?
No, it should be a guideline as opposed to, yeah.
You're not related to Morris.
Wait.
I've done my genealogy.
I'm not, no, no.
We lost, we gained the S in about 17, something or other.
Oh, no, I think for the census of the census
take a, didn't spell our name right, and it seemed to stick.
Excellent.
That's true.
I'm sure you wanted to know that, didn't you?
I did, I do actually, I do want to know.
I'm fascinated by this stuff.
I do, where are we?
Oh, there's a coin.
Shall I?
Yeah.
Yes, you, I just did one.
So it's, it's that you were around for the next one.
One of, one of, why are we paying you the big box?
By one of spoons, free revision.
Thanks for this episode.
Remind me, reminded me of so many things.
12 years since I studied this stuff for a lot of weeks,
relating to Solaris.
During those studies, I repeatedly wondered.
So what, the foot bone is connected to the leg bone.
Nevertheless, sometimes it pays to recognize
ones in available environment.
He stimulated my brain and threw a good chunk of dull work.
I would listen to this one again one day.
That is high praise indeed.
Excellent.
The next day, one weird trick.
This is looking prime and prime, is it?
Or is this the one?
So, Annie, I'll tell you what it is.
He talks about getting into advanced or cybersecurity
and how keyboards could trick malware.
And this was an interesting,
they've done a few fireside chat things themselves.
And there are words of wisdom.
I really want to give them to certain people that I know.
And the trick is that if you put a Russian keyboard
on your laptop, some malware will go,
look at it and go, well, I don't want to mess with that laptop.
So I'm not going to install my malware.
So, that's pretty good.
Yes, yes, who did that?
That's a good one.
Oh, why not?
I comment on one of the things that they mentioned
and they're about enthusiasm and willingness to learn
as someone who's interviewed people for jobs.
It's amazing the hoops you'll go through
with H or to hire somebody with enthusiasm
and willingness to learn.
I'll do the next one, Lurking Prion says,
red gems indeed.
I was always lucky enough to be on really good terms with HR.
I'm of the firm belief that you should know the people
in HR and legal on a first name basis.
Bacon saved, smiley face.
Yes, yes, you should know them on a first name basis
before they come.
You should be from you going to them
not the other way around.
Just that for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now I get the message and here we have again
the next new year show.
And let me see, Magglyze,
dialects in West Virginia,
scrolled on a little bit, random,
nuclear power in the US,
mumble, push, push, talk, tips, burn notices,
vice GTA, vice city, scrolling down,
ITIL certification, scrolling down,
and gore, zilla with limp district.
You just have to, that's the new year show for you.
It's awesome.
It's probably time to start recording promos
and send them out.
Yeah, you're not wrong actually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So monochromic, do you want to speak?
Speak now or forever, hold you peace.
We say his name three times, he will appear.
Monochromic, monochromic.
Monochromic!
This is where you roll and you can do that.
Do-do-do-do-do.
Sorry about that.
Oh, well, maybe he's having hard times.
Nope, nobody can hear you.
Nobody can hear you.
Let me do it.
Nope, nobody can hear you.
Okay, this was a good show.
John, I don't know where to get all these people actually.
John Howley from kernel.org thing.
And this was a good background to, yeah,
basically how kernel.org worked before GIFS
was invented, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So you should all definitely have a listen to that one.
Yeah, it was definitely an interesting show.
And I do always like, like, the guests they have
and their technical stuff, it's always,
always really interesting.
Yeah, I'm working for VMware now.
Just interesting as all.
Pretty cool.
Okay, following day, we had hypernike, hypernike,
we're saying, or it could be high, earning Nick.
Okay, higher Nicky, higher, higher, I'll show up.
My first podcast, my journey into the computer world.
How I was introduced to computers,
Linux, robotics, programming, cyber security, and more.
And what?
No, no comments.
Now it was a fascinating show and like,
just sort of the way it sort of started building
on each other and that sort of outside influence.
Yeah.
The learning scratch and then going to the kernel academy
have some excellent stuff.
Actually, if you could post the link to the show
or the series there, because I wouldn't mind
learning a little bit of JavaScript.
It's always been something on my list, but I missed.
I'm not trying to want myself,
but there's a guy on YouTube I've been following,
because my son was trying to learn JavaScript
for various things for work.
So I said, oh, I'll sort of follow you along.
He's zoomed on ahead, but still, there's some good stuff.
Yeah, I would certainly appreciate to take another one.
Anybody who can do an introductory show on JavaScript,
I'm not looking for how to rewrite
artificial intelligence, but just the basic introduction,
how you get started, how you can test, et cetera, et cetera.
We could write a static site generator.
You could.
Yeah, you could.
I'm not saying we won't run JavaScript,
that might be a problem, I'm not sure.
Ah, changing clouds, travel.
You gotta be aware of that.
This was where, oh good,
planned their RV thing during COVID times
and how they got around that.
I love this series, and you wonder why this is of interest
to have hackers is because it actually,
yeah, he's applying this to travel,
but it goes with a lot of things.
You've got to be ready for a change of plan.
You know, go with the flow type thing,
but in a controlled fashion.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The tools that are available for helping out with this
sound really impressive,
and taking it to a whole new level of facilities
and flexibility, I guess.
Yeah, and the good old spreadsheet.
As ever, Ahuka has got detailed show notes
on his own, which are excellent.
Yes, I'm gonna have to send my parents links to this.
They have a camper and they've done some traveling,
mostly out west to see my sister with it,
but I'm sure that some of this planning
would help them out too.
Yeah, and just even if at all this and apply to you,
I mean, the things that you need to take into account,
you know, practical things, the height of your vehicle,
how you could do it in one day, but do you wanna?
Even that applies to, I've been thinking of maybe doing
the train trip around Europe, you know,
just go over to Berlin for chips,
that sort of thing, chips being French fries.
Yeah, and take the night train and blah, blah, blah.
It does make good just general travel plans
that you could do.
Okay, the next day, we had a response to episode 3655,
BST for Linux users by Claudia Miranda,
and links to his WordPress blog on it
and geeky experiences episodes.
It's my, I'll do the comment.
Alan, it's six says feedback.
Yeah, OpenBSD is great.
Great episode, I have not heard before about evil laptops.
It would be nice to hear more about them.
Admit it, Dave, Alan 64 is an aliased
and you're just plugging them for more shows.
Ha ha ha ha.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I don't know, admit it.
Speak to us monochromic, speak to us.
I'm kidding me now.
Yes!
He's a monster.
Sorry about the, sorry about the shit in this app
and sorry about the lay.
I have to jump pretty soon.
So just my two cents on the, on our show,
that was actually John Hurley on Colonel.org.
This was our third but last show on something
called Hacker Public Radio.
Well, like to take the opportunity
to thank Hacker Public Radio for last two and a half years.
It has been a great experience.
What, I'm sorry.
And full disclosure, of course,
I'm one of the in laws.
Yes, if you read the mailing list,
you probably know who I am.
Martin and myself constitute a podcast.
Sorry.
Eh, yeah, sorry, a podcast.
Yes, called Linux in laws.
What left the bittersweet aftertaste
in our mouths, basically,
were the, were some of the comments on the mailing list
about Linux in laws and HP on general.
So come October and nothing much will change.
We are moving to Akaf.org.
The RSS feed isn't the process of being adapted.
Nothing much will change if you follow our RSS feed
and can as already kindly agreed.
I hope that's still the case can.
That there's a direct in play, a redirect in place
to our RSS feed if you have subscribed to the HP R1.
So nothing much you have to change.
Our RSS feed, of course, will always be up to date.
And simply we are moving then to Akaf.org.
Yeah, and I'd just like to say there about,
I'd like to say there about the feedback that I think
a lot of people are frustrated that's at the situation.
And I believe this is entirely down to me
that I didn't manage the situation very well.
A lot of HP R listeners are frustrated at the fact
that Linux and laws were on HP R as a podcast within HP R.
But that was, you were on the understanding
that we're a podcast hosting platform
and that all makes a lot more sense.
And I'm really sorry the way it went down.
We'll be going through the comments again.
But for those people making those comments,
I can understand your frustration,
a lot of it.
I don't think the emails have done anything wrong
in this situation.
And I hope you can continue to publish those.
And we will, of course, be publicizing your feed.
And we will be, of course, if you're willing to,
via the free culturepodcast.org site,
promoting your show.
If you give us a way to stickers,
we'll hand them out to boots and that sort of thing.
So I would like to salvage some bit of,
it could have gone better if the transition
is basically what I'm saying.
I'm sorry about the way it went down.
It wasn't great.
No, Ken, no worries.
And don't get me wrong.
I'm not trying to pin any, any, any, any,
what's what I'm looking for.
Any fall on you, not at all.
We were just not impressed by some of the feedback
of the community because this is exactly what leaves
open source in the public view with a bitter aftertaste.
Yeah, similar to the like, similar to the likes
of the current mailing list,
Gido or a front rustle stepping down all the rest of it.
I'm not comparing that,
but it's still not a great experience
what happened with in the last work, two or three weeks.
Something like that.
And Ken, as I said by mail,
the second 10 beers on the in-laws
should immediately get out of the office.
And again, and again, I would like to thank
Hacker Public Radio, being a podcast
or podcast hosting platform.
Frankly, and I hope I can say that on the show.
I don't give a shit.
Yeah.
But again, thank you for your hospitality
for the last 20,000 years.
And thank you for your support.
No problem.
And again, you'll see in the comments
that if you look at it from the point of view
of the HPR, people do appreciate your shows.
And I'm sure that the majority of HPR subscribers
will go over and also subscribe to your feed.
So yeah, there's lots of lessons that we can learn from this.
And I, the door is always open to you guys.
If you have shows that don't fit in
with the Linux and all stuff,
whack them up here on HPR and don't be strangers,
we will try to put this learn from our mistakes
and try to put this behind us, if we can.
Much, much appreciated.
And as you kindly suggest it,
proofy to put us on the, on the, what is it, free podcast?
Yeah, free culture podcast.org.
Norris.
Yes, thank you.
Exactly.
Has it yet?
Or the way that he has volunteered to take over that.
So hopefully, much appreciated then.
And then when I saw him, great, great.
Are you going to fast them then?
That's the attention, yes.
Yeah, if there, if you see the call for stands,
we might try doing that stand thing again.
And then obviously get some stickers and stuff
and we can put it into the HPR boots,
both here and in the US and in the UK.
So that you stickers and stuff are.
Yeah, let me talk to marketing.
If Martin hasn't filed the department yet.
Again.
Let's do this one.
And sometimes this says we know that, but what that means.
Anyway, guys, I got to run.
Thank you very much for your, for the last two and a half years
and a little forward to meeting soon.
All right, we see you faster.
At least I have to buy you a nice beer.
That's the good thing.
Look, the local former did take care.
Bye.
Bye.
So we did back to response to BSU user Linux.
And the next show was the New Year show part three.
And you can see lots of stuff about the Netherlands coming in.
So obviously my song is partaking in that one.
And your daughter, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yes, I heard it.
I've heard it and it was, it was good.
I really enjoyed it.
They're interesting to listen to.
I did enjoy hearing all about the delights of the Netherlands
and so forth.
A little bit.
Yes.
Yeah.
He does enjoy the show, but he sometimes gets a little bit excited
and forgets to stop talking and forgets to listen to other people
like myself.
But it's a lesson that we have to learn, I'm afraid.
Well, it can, it can happen to all of us.
I think that, yeah, there was some good dialogue going on.
It wasn't just a one-sided drive.
It was, there was some interesting chats
with the between your children and the American audience.
And a few others, so we just guy on and clacky,
popped in an occasionally.
And so I thought it sounded to me like this sort of discussion
that if you were, you know, sat on the bus next to people
and they would be fascinating to listen to and to join in, perhaps.
And if you're going to be a little long-winded,
that is the show to be a little long-winded.
Absolutely.
Very true.
You're a chance to just say a little for you.
The following day, we had recording for HBR.
This is D&T, podcasting tips about how he recorded.
And he had a iPhone 7, but Apple earbugs, a Zoom H1,
Sunhizer and B Pearl II, and Pixel 3 with a Dolby app.
And it was also some nice tips here about compressors and stuff
and EQ and all the rest of it.
Yep, another another show I need to listen to over again,
just to, yeah, sure, I'm absorbing as many hints as possible.
Yeah, I was just thinking the same because I,
I heard this this morning before this recording, so it was a bit late.
But, yeah, it was, it had some really helpful hints
and experiences talked about that, excellent.
And good old Mr. Gadgets.
I hope to hear from him again.
I've seen the odd tweet from him occasionally.
Yeah.
Yeah, you see, he's still around.
But I'm not sure if I'm on Master Don or whether it was Twitter,
but if you see him, can you see there?
Say hello and copy myself on the HBR account,
so we can subscribe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll bear that in mind.
Yeah, yeah, good guy.
I did message him once a long time ago.
He's been a while since he's been on.
And just to say, really impressed with these shows,
you know, how sometimes it's good to send a message to people
just to congratulate them.
He was really, really friendly and nice guy to, to converse with.
Good.
OK, there were a few comments on previous shows,
which is back at the episode 3676 page.
And on my own show about infinity is just a big number.
Another proofs I include the SMBC comic where there's somebody
having a dialogue with the creator asking, does math exist?
And then it goes on to say infinity.
Seriously, what's going on down there?
I've never seen that, but that made me laugh, yeah, it's good.
He's done a lot of the few since then.
So, yeah.
Do you want to do the in-laws?
Mm-hmm.
The comment from Aaron on show 3629 from The In-laws,
what an excellent interview he says.
He or she says, I'm a big fan of Mozilla and Firefox.
It was fascinating to hear what Eric had to say.
I've forgotten the guy's name, but I remember that one being
particularly good.
Yep.
See, there are positive comments on endosials.
I think a lot of people have said that the interview ones are good.
I know that, but sometimes they ramble a bit too much
on the other ones, but the interview ones,
they're really, really on the ball.
Sorry, yeah, when you go.
Shall I take this one?
Please, yeah.
OK, a comment by Sean on episode 3643, my computing history,
and the software I use by BNRC.
Let's see, Sean says, key bindings.
You can remap your control and alt keys using UDEV with HWDB,
EG, interchanging control and caps keys, HGPS,
weak e.archlinics.org, forward slash title, forward slash
map, underscore scan codes, underscore two, underscore key codes,
pound example for custom HWDB.
And you can use control plus the left square
per end to send in a state character or square bracket.
Yes.
Once you've done this a few times, you'll
be going linked in the show notes.
Yes.
And by the way, the way we see the comments here,
we don't see these as proper URLs.
Whereas on the actual comment, it's the URLs made
active.
Yeah.
A response by Falky to my show, a response to tomorrow's show.
I do precisely like a long time lurker.
So you clearly can't count the downloads as listener listeners.
My pod catcher is downloading all HWR shows.
And I'm deciding afterwards if I want to listen.
Surprise.
In the case of the linux in those,
I've deleted without listening as I see it's one of those.
Can't quite say why, but after two of their shows
have had enough, it's just not my taste.
OK.
I know I strongly suspect, as soon as people hear my voice,
there's a massive deletion going up, but that's OK.
My inferiority complex is better than yours.
No, actually, that's not the joke.
Your inferiority complex is better than mine.
Yes, that's the joke.
That's very yet, yes.
That makes more sense, doesn't it?
OK, what now, Dave?
Do we tackle these Dave and Ron?
Ron, are you up for this thread?
Because it's a shitstorm, basically.
What?
Let's do it.
Unless it's long enough to make another show out of it.
Yeah.
There's a lot.
There is a lot, man.
I know, essentially, says Ken, there's more on it.
Yeah, it was just a situation that got out a little out
of your hands, and so.
OK, let's do the accessibility thing, Mike Ray.
I just spotted a layering accessibility issue on HPR site.
I just listed the community news published today
and heard and mentioned about a show from Kafka,
which I need to know about right now for work.
So I went to the site and the tags page,
running down the list of tags, begins with the letter KF
on Kafka, column, space, 3, 6, 3, 9, that's fine.
But only the 3, 6, 3, 9 basis included in the link.
So when I hit the K button to navigate to the link in VDA,
a window screen reader, all I get is number after number
after number.
I believe all the major screen readers
include a key to jump from link to link.
No idea which is the Kafka show.
So the link needs to be changed to include the tag in the anchor.
I have mentioned this before.
An anchor should include the full text to describe the link.
Not just the word here.
I'll then click here about an invisible draft with six legs.
I would want the whole thing in the link.
So that I can find the link about invisible draft with six legs.
Not just here, here, here, here.
I don't know how I missed that when it was published,
but I am one of those people who screwed up their stats
because I believe most of the show is based on the titles.
After making sure it's not one of my must-listen of hosts,
the mixing laws is that one of these, okay, fair enough.
Dave, do you want to do Dave's response?
That sounds good.
Yes.
Yes, I like, I say, I must apologize to this problem.
Page is something I designed and constructed myself.
The new readers we're talking about
and I give a link to the tags.php page.
I wanted the page to be like an index
in a book with the keyword tag on the left,
followed by a list of the page show numbers.
As I designed this, it seemed that each link was best
presented as a number.
I didn't know that the screen readers would cope badly with this.
I'm wondering if there's a way of including text
that would help the screen reader
while leaving the list of show numbers as it is.
I was unavailable this morning, blah, blah, blah.
I saw the warnings that many screen readers
will not use the attribute, oh, sorry, I skipped over a bit.
I've just been doing, just going back to that previous frame,
I've been trying to do what some accessibility advice
I found suggests, namely giving each link,
each link to a show, a text attribute
in the experiment why I added the show title there.
I saw the warnings that many screen readers
will not use this attribute.
I also wondered if this will have the effect of making
the page excessively complex for screen readers
that do use it.
Using this text has the advantage for sighted users
that hovering over the link shows what the episode's about.
I found many references to accessible
rich internet applications, area, area in my research
and I see what I could, and I see that I could add
these types of attributes.
What do you think?
I can take this.
Hello Dave, apologies for top posting.
This is from Mike Ray, a response.
If you get your hands on the Bootstrap 3 styles CSS,
search for SR dash only.
I suggest you might want to create a bogus tag,
Ali, A, or is it A11 like it.
With a link to a bogus show and when you have done that,
let me know.
Although of course the styling is probably done in a loop,
so any style applied will be applied to all.
And I guess what you mean by index is that you want
any tag to appear on the page only once,
but then followed by a column to the right
with the show numbers.
I'm sorry to learn about this,
but running down a list is very, very, very annoying
when meaningful entry is not included in the link.
In case of HBR tags page, I just get a number after number
and on a lot of pages, as I suggest before,
there's only ever the word here that is linked.
Jumping either forwards or backwards
through the links with K or Shift K,
I have no idea when I've landed on a link I want.
Perhaps we can do some trials
and give me the nod each time you made an update.
PHP?
Yuck.
The answer to is where it's at Dave.
All the pearl happening dudes are there, Mike.
And then I reply, I think I understand the problem.
You have the search text
and then the episode numbers where that keywords appear.
For example, Kafka, 3639, Newline,
Cali Linux 1457.
So when you search for Kafka, you land on 3639,
which is what you hear is fine
because that's the show about Kafka.
But you cannot see if there are two more shows for Kafka
because when you tab, you tab to the next link,
which is 1457, which is not about Kafka,
but then fact about Cali Linux.
If somebody else records a show about Kafka,
then you would have Kafka, colon, 3639, comma space,
999, Newline, Cali Linux, colon 1457.
So when you search for Kafka,
it would then go 3639, then 999, then 1457.
So there's no indication to the show,
which link is about Kafka.
Is that the problem?
If so, then the solution would be to have the tag included
in the first link, so the first high for link would be,
would say basically Kafka, colon, 3639.
And then the second one would be 999,
and then first many shows us the, as they are.
When you jump to the next tag, you would hear
Cali Linux 1457, and then any other show numbers
that follow, is that a solution?
Or would you just have each tag as a headline,
and then each show having its own line
with a complete line of text to which Microsoft responded?
So yeah, so it's just getting my head around
because I didn't fully appreciate what was being said
in that email.
Anyway, Mike replies, let me see if I can explain this
in simple terms with the list.
Imagine this list on a website,
and I'm not going to put HTML here,
since a emails with HTML in our Crime Against Humanity
and B, it might upset the email clients' books
have set for HTML and not plain text.
So his list is, click here to go to the foot of our stairs,
click here to email our ice cream, click here
to get rid of all the right wing governments forever,
click here to restore human rights across mainland Europe,
click here if you think eSpeed is the best TTS engine ever.
There are five entries in that list.
Each, if each sentence only had the word here,
included in the anchor, then started from the top
and using the navigation key, screen reader,
which the screen reader provides to jump through the links,
I would hear, hear, hear, hear, hear, hear.
It's about as useful as a chocolate teapot,
since I would not know what each of those here things were.
I'm aware that you're not using a screen reader yourself.
This is hard to understand if you are not using a screen.
And just using a screen reader to test this stuff is hard,
since getting to the point where you are relaxed
and familiar with the screen reader takes time.
I would say if I can work out a way to record the text
from my screen reader while I carry down
through a list of links or of links of tags on HBR,
presumably the eSpeed tag list must be longer
than more in peace.
It's right, of course.
He replied, or do you want to do a reply?
Or do that as well?
Yeah.
Do you want me to read him further down your email
than I did before, Ken?
This solution would work.
If the tag subject were included in the first anchor
in a list of tags for that subject, so just to break
away from that for a second, you are suggesting
that the actual word that is the indexed item,
which is also an anchor.
And you can jump to it if you know you can put that in the URL
and jump to it.
Then that, if that were to signal that it is an entry
for that particular word, then no, no, I'm not quite.
No, I find something to discover trying to explain this
to myself.
OK.
I'm going to go to the tags page.
And I'll show you exactly what.
So we've got tags beginning with the picking number B, right?
So we can jump to the video section.
So the video, there's a tag called video.
And it's got a whole go of numbers behind it.
And all that Mike's going to hear is 2629, 41, 64, blah, blah, blah,
right through.
But what I'm suggesting is, for the first link,
we start the AHRF call on HBR episode one of them.
The first thing is episode 26.
So it's because as Mike was saying, it's the some text
associated with the hyperlink on the anchor itself
that's getting read out, not the piece of text that's
there for Sergeant users.
No, no, it is the piece of text for Sergeant users.
That's what's getting read out.
That's the point.
It's being read out because it's a link.
Yeah.
So if you press top on the page, what's happening?
Did you hear anything I said?
I was the last one.
Oh, I heard you were talking about the video and the number.
Because during doofat, I was supposed to push the talk.
OK, I forgot to press push the talk.
OK, if you go to the tag.php page, right?
And you click on any of the links.
H, for example, what I'm suggesting is,
and if you go or highlight tags beginning with H,
I'm highlighting that section.
And I'm highlighting the first two lines.
Hope, 1041, and hack 1598.
And I'm doing a view source.
That was a bad idea.
Depends on your browser, probably, didn't I?
I'm doing view selection source, which might be a bit easier.
So OK, you don't want to be just a lot easier
as if I do this on HTML page.
It will make a lot more sense.
So you know when you got HTML link,
it's a hit ref colon hackers, public radio,
forward slash apps, question mark ID equals 1596.
And then you have the semicolon less than greater than sign
and then the number.
So what we're saying for the first one,
we include the word hack in the first one.
And then you will hear hack 1598 tab.
Then you'll hear 1858 tab.
He will hear 2126 tab.
You will see 3382.
And if you actually do this on the page and you press tab,
you'll see it jump in from link to link to link.
And all you have to do is anything
where the blue square is over.
That's all they're going to hear.
Yeah?
Did you land it on the link?
Yes, OK.
So if I include the text that's from the A space ID hope,
or you know the strong colon hope, strong,
as part of the first link, then you
tap down to the first link and it gives the name of the tag.
Then the first show, and then the subsequent ones
are going to be related to whatever that was.
And then once you go to a new tag,
it'll say new tag, episode 1, 2, 3, 4,
tab 4, 5, 6, 7, which you kind of know in your brain
is related to the previous tag.
And then you press tab and it goes full, episode 1, tab, bar,
episode 2.
Yeah, get the idea?
Yeah, that makes sense if that works
for Mike.
Yeah, I'm preempting what being discussed later on in the thread.
But I had actually, I was asking about using this area label
thingy, which my researchers had shown a lot of screen readers
would handle, would deal with it.
And in order to test it, I fired up a version of Orca
with some struggling, managed to get it
onto this tag page.
And I found that if I went to a particular link,
it would say what was in the area label.
So at the moment, I haven't moved it much further
with this because Mike's busy, I think I've not heard back from him.
I've got the area label says tag hack,
colon, which is stupid because it'll say colon.
But show, and then it says show 15, 1596.
So that was what I thought would be useful.
But of course, it depends on whether the, I know Orca does it,
but I'm not sure whether where there are other screen readers would.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I'm thinking if we do it the way I'm suggesting
that we include the tag in the first, then everything.
Yeah, if you call that thing the sort of index term,
that the tag word itself, a tag phrase itself,
that should also have a label on it of some sort
that causes the screen reader to speak it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bob Yonkman says, you know, this entire thread will make
a great speech for your episode from Bob,
who's the final episode of all other people.
Happening now, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I'm willing to read this helial thread into a microphone
and make an episode out of it, but I'm visually dependent.
So while I think I understand the problem on the solution,
I'm not, I'm not clear how he's supposed to say that.
I know, I know what it was actually referring to,
but accessibility expert.
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, anyway, I don't.
It doesn't make sense to somebody else, but not me.
But yeah, and then I said, I call Bob reading accessibility
problem thread and redirecting it into my
omni-shoulder text file to which you replied, Dave.
So I said, hi, Mike, sorry to have
said, taken several days to reply.
He liked it in the way that little.
It's 30 brutal with moving previous stuff
in the email thread, too, but I hope I can address them
nevertheless.
Just this thread was getting really, really tangled.
I take your point about the multiple healings,
but I hadn't quite realized how unpleasant my list of show
numbers after each tag was to a screen reader user.
I did battle with Orca for an hour or two
and began to get the idea.
So since Wednesday, this has dated, sadly,
in 6 August, I managed to regenerate the tags page
with the headings you suggested.
He had suggested there should be a header per lump
of an alphabetic piece of the page, which
is there now, as you see.
With the headings you suggested in the message with the title,
more about tag accessibility.
I also added aria label attributes to the A tags.
At the moment, these can name stuff like tag Kafka colon
show 3639.
I found that Orca would read these,
but I've no idea if other screen readers would.
I also seriously doubt that the current content is useful.
I think I was referring to the colon,
because it would be so annoying, I'm sure.
However, it might be a thing to consider.
The other disadvantages of this is that Orca says
the show number twice, once for aria label,
and again for the hyperlink itself.
So maybe just having the tag in this label would be enough.
I will generate a new page with a different name,
which contains links on separate lines with the show number
and title, perhaps the associated tag.
This will be very long and sometimes we'll have many entries.
I see the tag Linux has 264 entries, for example.
Worth a try though.
I look at your alternative suggestions as well.
Kent's suggestion is also worth testing out.
Ron, do you want to do Carl's response?
Sure.
Carl D. Hammond responds,
but if the tag name itself was a link to a page
with just the shows related to that tag,
that's a pretty common pattern I've seen around the web,
and it would make more sense to have the show titles
on such a page.
My hunch is that that only improves linear navigation,
if those links are either the only links on that on the page
or at least grouped together at the start of the page
before the show links like a table of contents,
just brainstorming, land there.
I was thinking about that for the static search generation.
Would you hear?
It's going to generate a lot of pages,
so it's not, because there's like, I don't know, 600 tags.
So it's 600 pages, potentially.
Yeah, but once there are generations of generations.
Sure, sure.
Well, except that you have to update,
which is actually something I've been thinking about
as doing is an update option for that site generator,
so that only the pages that need to be regenerated.
Yeah, that's a good optimization,
but even if you generate all the pages all the time,
yeah, so it's expensive.
But when you put it on to a disk,
and we or sync from that disk to the main website,
then it's only going to pick up chain pages that we can set
or sync only to lock us once where the file size has changed
or something equivalent.
True.
Yeah, I didn't actually do that.
I haven't done the second page yet,
because I got bumped into other things,
but that will be something I will get to in the next week or two.
Yeah, I think maybe if we, the tags page is a bit big,
if we do a page with various different options,
various different options pages,
you'll have a few tags and then what's the best from those?
Because I'd also like to stick to relatively basic HTML,
rather than using explicit things that only screen readers can use,
and if it gets supports as dropped or whatever,
I'd like it to be the same code for everybody.
But working for screen readers, obviously.
There was a comm that I think Mike mentioned,
a CSS enhancement that would help.
Yeah, which I see as I miss that,
and I need to find out more about that.
So that's also something that,
if I were to put together some experimental pages
to do the various things,
the thing that I suggested,
the thing that Mike suggested,
and Carl suggested and so forth,
then it may be maybe.
And as you say, maybe construct them,
such it just grabs the first few tags from the list or something like that.
Yeah, one with a lot of tags,
one with only one, one with more,
and then a sample would also be useful.
If people listening to this,
those of you who have survived,
anyone using accessibility tools,
if you could ping us on the social medias
or on the email list or a comment to this show,
if you want to join along in this,
the more the merrier would be,
we'll be a good idea, I think here.
And I can help out with maybe generating that CSS version,
Dave, with the static site generator.
Yeah, yeah, if we can collaborate on that one, yeah.
Because it won't be good to get,
because if you get a fixed for this,
we can get a fixed for all the other issues related to the site itself,
might be an idea to take the HPR CSS as it is now,
and see can we improve that as well?
So that by default, all HPR pages benefit from whatever we do on this.
Well, and to that point,
because I had read this while I was doing the templates,
I have gone through and I think I've changed most of the links
for the static site generator to not just say here,
but to try to give them context now.
Cool. Yes, excellent.
Okay. Okay, Dave, your last comment was,
I did a reply to Carl.
So I'll read that out, yeah, on the mailing list.
Interesting thought I said to Carl,
at present, the tag page in question is an offshoot of the project,
now completed to add tags on summary swallows shows.
I separated the tag list,
which I refer to as the index from the main page,
what we still need to done because I thought it would be a useful thing.
So the workflow was add new tags and summaries to the database,
refresh the two pages,
and I'd normally do this as updates came in.
Now I update whenever a new shows are added to make sure their tags are listed.
I generate the pages locally on my desktop PC and upload them,
so the tag pages static and updated when there's a change.
There are currently 5,837 tags in the system,
so that would mean a number of tags specific pages, I guess.
Yes, yes it would.
But yes.
And Mike replies more about tag accessibility.
I just went to the tags page.
Again, going down the page shows all the tags for each starting letter.
There's nothing but a go to index link between each,
for example, between K and the L page.
Another screen reader option is to jump from heading to heading,
so it would be better if those heading something like being with K.
You switched to using heading, didn't you?
Yeah, I did that already, yeah, yeah.
So you could use, if the ARIA thing is working,
you could just put tags beginning with in the ARIA,
and then it would say, it should, I'm guessing, say tags beginning with and then K.
I think it's what he's saying, to give him context.
Yeah, yeah.
Type beginning with before each blocker of the tags,
then the screen reader user could jump to the,
from heading to heading until they find the letter they want.
Okay, that makes sense.
And then heading K to jump from link to link is annoying when you go through a list
of letters in the ARIA, plus some more is a long list.
So heading after Z would probably be a landmark to jump to in the absence
of the usual skip to link, which is put in the accessibility web page and know what about that.
Most web pages written by accessibility
or where authors include links and landmarks that are invisible to people who see
but are spoken by a screen reader, such as skip to never skip to main content,
skip to notification.
I can provide information on how to do that if you want.
Yes.
In fact, here it is.
My apologies if the HTML screws up.
Anybody's client was tough, the last one was tough for me.
S are only absolute blah, blah, blah, blah,
with one height one, patting zero, margin minus one,
overflow is hidden and rectangle of zero, border of zero.
So that's useful for hiding everything from CSS.
And S are only folk screen reader, only focusable, active.
S are only focus, column focus, static auto, auto,
with height auto, auto margin zero, overflow visible,
clip is auto and the start.
So put that at the beginning of your page and then href class.
Ah, skip to main content is only visible for people with accessibility.
And the href will not be visible, but my e-readable speakers.
And the class ID content role main.
Don't forget to close the div or perhaps use a div for such thingy.
And then you will see create auto landmarks and visible tags
audible to my screen reader, but not visible to photon dependent types.
However, I dislike this, Dave.
I'm wrong because we should have skip to main content there
and skip navigation visible to all.
Should not have to hide anything.
There's no reason to hide stuff from people.
Make it makes people more aware.
Why are they putting that in?
What happens if I click on those links?
So I disagree with this fundamentally.
Make people aware that there are accessibility issues
and that's what we're trying to tackle them.
Okay, HVR podcast or hosting platform.
Let's do it.
Ah, this is about a HVR episode three, six, five, eight.
Is HVR podcast or podcast hosting platform by myself?
In and of course, they're in this episode are two aging heroes
explore their no workings of a podcast or the podcast hosting platform
depending on your perspective called Hacker Public Radio.
So my question to the community is,
are we a podcast or podcast hosting platform?
I believe there is a fundamental difference between the two,
knowing which we are impacts the direction we take as a project.
Can you please provide your view on this?
Can you do when to go, Dave?
And Ron, can you take Dave, please?
So, Windigo says, I see us as a podcast.
I don't contribute, I don't contribute episodes
of the Windigo podcast to HVR podcast network.
I contribute episodes to HVR.
Ron?
Ah, sorry, I'm jumping through it just says,
mine says an hional attachment was scrubbed.
Maybe, am I not looking, I'm just going for it.
It's scrolling through.
It's not your problem, Ron, it's because that's what
mailman does.
I need to click on that attachment thing.
No, I don't think you'll see it.
I think it just chops it right off.
It hates HTML.
I have more experience of doing this, I'll do it.
Dave Lee said that problem.
In my somewhat experienced opinion,
a podcast is a single feed of a related episode.
A podcast-holic cleaning platform is a dedicated service
that hosts multiple podcasts based on the definition
HVR, despite often being used as a hosting provider,
is actually a podcast.
Happy tree discourse further.
And I'll do judges.
Josh says podcast hosting platform
would imply that there are multiple podcasts supported
by the platform as far as how the feed readers are concerned.
HVR is a podcast with multiple hosts.
Kevin O'Brien says definitely a podcast.
It is a single feed in my G-Potter.
If it were a network, there would be a separate feed for every podcast.
It's a floor wax.
No, it's a dessert topping.
So.
And do I do mics?
Yeah, Mike says it's podcast with multiple hosts.
D&T says it's a podcast, of course.
And the only important consequence of someone claiming
that HVR is a podcast hosting service is that it raises the possibility
that perhaps hosts shouldn't be allowed to style their shows
as a show within HVR as they've syndicated.
Before this, it could be easily tolerated.
In my view, the practice is tacky anyway.
You'd think that almost 17 years history
would be good enough for YouTube to be part of.
Hosts who instead dress it up as something else
are just missing the point to some extent.
Bob Triggles replies, throwing a wrench into the works.
I love the term podcast.
Podcast implies that it's an Apple product.
Well, the word pod is not a registered trade style
of the Apple Corporation.
It still sounds like it is somehow associated with Apple.
Rather, when I used used to be an audio content creator,
I always preferred to refer to internet audio content
as netcast, a a la lia la port.
But la port gave up on trying to rebrand internet audio content
as netcasts some time ago.
Whatever the case, I had found that using netcast
doesn't cause confusion.
At least to the rare netcaster I write to from time to time.
So it might be a rebranding for HPR
to consider giving its given attacker roots.
But to answer the question, I consider HPR
to be a netcast with respect, Bob.
And I reply, based on the answers around the podcast feed,
is not going to give a clear answer.
Every host and every series has their own feeds.
So anyone can create their own feed pointing to media
on HPR or the internet archive.
So let me clarify the question to should we be a podcast
or a podcast hosting platform?
And I'll do the...
Oh, okay.
Sorry if I can...
I'm just going to switch to Thunderbird where I can do it if you want.
So, Dave Lee says...
Oh no, it's the same...
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah.
I can't operate my own podcast, he says.
One word in HTML.
Yeah, great to see you.
Great to see you.
Could you stop sending HTML only, send both.
Like everybody else does.
Yes.
Let's see, in Jerome Baton,
Hi, I would vote for a definite no on this one.
Let me explain.
Currently, the hosts are all a bunch of people
that would show up in a Venn diagram
in the nerdy geek techie section.
Becoming a platform would open the site up
to a much wider group of people.
No doubt amongst people with good intentions,
also less likable characters.
Think of influencers, people selling disinformation,
ultra-right, left and middle included here for completeness.
This also means all these other podcasts
need to be reviewed and there need to be rules
and consequently enforcement of said rules.
If I look back and see what happens
when somebody pedals the anti-pandemic stuff
I'm getting really reluctant
and endorsing becoming a platform.
My two cents on the matter.
Form greetings and salutation to my fellow hackers
drone Baton.
And Kevin says,
Well, if we're moving from the positive
to the normative, I would say we should remain a podcast.
And I added my two cents.
I feel we should be a podcast
and should maintain the same policy
towards accepting and airing shows
from other podcasts that we currently have.
As long as they meet the requirements
of posting on HPR, i.e. shows of any topic
that are of interest to hackers,
they post on the accepted schedule
currently not more than once every two weeks
if I'm not mistaken.
The show can be posted under the same CC license
that HPR uses.
They are generally not a disruptive member of the community.
The gray areas when a podcast is wholly hosted
through HPR versus playing an episode
from one which is hosted elsewhere.
I think we asked the host to give a brief
summary of an external podcast being aired on HPR
at the start of the show
before including the external material.
For podcasts which are regularly
or wholly hosted on HPR,
the summary isn't requested.
So far I don't feel like anyone
hosting their podcast on HPR
has abused the spirit of posting on two HPR.
For me, the connotation of a podcast
hosting platform means either some kind of monetization
going on in the background
or some kind of sharing of resources
between the podcast.
And I'm not sure how that would look
and work for HPR
as is currently structured.
I doubt Josh and an honest host.net
would mind some extra capital coming in to offset
HPR resources.
They're racial to give to HPR
but it would be a completely new dynamic
that would need to be worked out.
If we went that route I see a hacker public network
or hacker public broadcasting network
to which HPR would then become a part of that network
but HPR would basically be the same.
Cheers Ron.
And I replied to anyone hosting their podcast
from HPR abusing this first.
Agreed. I don't think anyone has entered into this.
I think everybody has entered this into good faith.
HPR can operate as either a podcast
or podcast hosting platform
but I would like to see the distinction.
What bit, sorry.
Where did you hear the first part of that?
Yes.
Okay. And then the second part is
first there is no guarantee your suggestion
that the money will be flowing into the podcast
hosting platform
where a bunch of deals entered into
but podcasts on a podcast hosting platform
there's nothing to suggest
that any of the money will flow
to the podcast hosting platforms
covers.
In fact, YouTube, Facebook, etc.
are expected to pay their content providers.
Anyway, when money gets involved
we get a whole other layer of bureaucracy
and oversized.
And I would much prefer to have nothing to do with.
If you want to contribute
you send your donation to Josh
or anonymous.com or the internet archive
when the HPR needs stuff
the community usually provides.
As far as needing a podcast hosting platform
there already is one
and that is the internet archive.
They already provide an API
and they provide hosting
for us and many other
creator comments podcasts
as well.
In fact, that is where HPR shows
have gone
that have gone live are hosted.
So what value
would hosting on HPR provide?
Do you reply?
I replied.
Let's see.
So,
internet is a good thing.
I'll get a coffee while that's going on.
From my point of view
we keep the same direction
a podcast that happens to allow other
podcasts to post their episodes
in our feed.
By direction do you mean the same
or is that the question about direction
allowing other shows to host themselves
through HPR feed?
And then
in response
to your
talking about money and things
and
excuse me
and donating to Josh and
I said I didn't state it
but I agree.
It is another whole level of complexity
that is not worth the effort
and then in response to
as far as needing a
podcasting whose platform
there already is one
and that is the internet archive
and the value of hosting on us
I say the value of hosting
your shows on HPR at least initially
the fairly large audience
with presumably
similar interest
is introduced to your content.
Maybe should have read out
everything since Ken is now
getting coffee.
Again, Rome.
I would have gotten away with it too
if it wasn't for
showcase silence.
Sorry, I'm bad with truncating silence.
I think I replied next.
Okay, apologies.
I misunderstood your point.
Well, just not
make us syndicate your shows.
We're only releasing stuff for HPR.
We put a rule in that other podcasts
sought to post a HPR
to get an audience and we started
having no free slots
for HPR only content.
Over the years we stopped
a lot of podcasts
from airing on HPR
because of the rule
but we didn't
stop them hosting on HPR instead
by passing this rule.
And to this I replied
and this is your
inward response to your apologies
for misunderstanding the point.
I said no worries.
I should have stated that at first
my position was not well
implied in my response
and then to your point
of being a syndication
and the rules on syndication
I replied, uh,
I didn't realize that was an issue
while I've recently worked
with the syndication page.
I obviously haven't read it
thoroughly.
How is this decided currently
whether podcasts can post
through HPR or not?
Is it on a case-by-case decision
through the mailing list?
Uh, nice.
Usually it's very close.
If somebody has their own
podcast with their own site
and their own feed,
then they are a syndication show.
None of these things were in place
when it was posted their first show.
However, I did send them this email.
Are guys are you planning
this was the first email I said?
Are you planning to release
exclusively on HPR
or you're planning
on hosting your own podcast?
If the former then no problem.
If you're planning your own show
then I'm posting a sample
episode under the rules.
Stuff you need to know syndication.
And if you're doing your own show
that would be happy to add you to
the free culturepodcast.org list.
And I also said, uh,
in response, I think
or are you planning to host
your own platform is what's causing
the confusion?
I can imagine that if you thought HPR
was a podcast hosting a platform,
you might think that the syndication
ruled in the plan.
As it turns out, that wasn't correct.
We, but that would become
obvious later on.
And then, basically, I can, oh, okay.
I just switched that one.
It's the one that says, um,
in relation to syndication
and the in-laws.
That's interesting.
Says Dave Lee.
I thought the syndication rules
in place well before then.
Yes, the rule was there,
but they didn't have a word.
So at the time,
but actually that wasn't what happened.
Again, Dave says, uh,
sorry, I completely misread it.
Do you want to do D&T's rule?
Okay. Um,
D&T requires, honestly,
I think the idea that HPR
would be a podcast hosting platform
has no basis on anything.
It's largely a self-serving
misconception for those who use it as one.
Probably no one is really upset
about the in-laws posting their shows
as HPR shows.
They clearly fit in.
And it's a good,
it's good to fill a slot.
I see this misrepresented.
I see this like there's been kind of
a symbiotic relationship.
And then they misrepresented
this relationship,
which has put HPR in a slightly
uncomfortable position.
It shouldn't change just to get
comfortable again.
HPR should just reiterate that
it's not a podcast hosting platform,
but rather a podcast
and that as far as it's concerned,
Linux in-laws is a series within HPR's
as are others.
And I replied, uh,
to give you some background
in decision to only release material,
created exclusively for HPR was taken
on the mailing list,
because there's a harsh decision to make
an even harder implement.
This is in 2012 and October.
At the time we had to drop
three shows from the podcast
and we've turned away 20 different podcasts
since then.
We started freeculturepodcast.org
where we have the podcast recommendation
series in order to like
in the message we're giving
in having to turn people away.
It sucks turning these shows away,
especially when you had to call
for shows open.
Thankfully most of these shows
remain friends and understand
the reasons for the decision.
We're grateful for the publicity
we could provide and many went on
to be HPR contributors
flying shows and staffing the HPR boots.
While there are many
uh, while there may have been doubt
to start with,
Linux in-laws now definitely
qualifies as a syndicated show.
So again, that's not correct,
we have rules, rules that were agreed
after a fair bit of thought
and discussion in the community.
But in-laws are now outside of those rules
and puts us in a difficult position
whether we arrived at it by accident or not.
So to me at least it's rather more
than putting HPR into a slightly
uncomfortable position.
It calls into question the impartiality
with which the rules are applied.
I need an answer to the question
why are they allowed to be on HPR
and podcast X isn't?
And Ralph, now I don't have one.
Ooh, one I can read.
Um, Josh says,
if a series that has been on HPR turns
into its own podcast, that's cool.
But that should mean that it can
stammer on its own two feet
and doesn't require to be syndicated on HPR.
It doesn't stop them from going
and doing a short podcast here,
covering the highlight of the other podcast.
It isn't so much giving them the boot
as it is making sure the podcast stays
within the rules, the community has to find.
Yeah, and Josh is the one who is paying
for the hosting.
So we do need to consider his words very carefully.
So two more from me.
So hi all, I just want to summarize the topic
as to my understanding of the current situation.
I don't think there is a need to amend.
Oh, yeah, well, that's actually.
How is this?
Where did Janik's email come?
Because none of this means that makes any sense.
I think I'm back.
If you're looking at red,
it sort of jumped back to Linux in-laws and HPR.
How does Todd reply to that?
Okay, I'll do another one and figure it out from there.
I have Todd's up if he does.
Okay, I'll do mine and then you do Todd's.
The HPR syndication policy was designed
to stop podcasts from monopolizing slots in the HPR.
Question one, what would it take to get the Linux in-laws
into compliance with the alone?
That's a response to who's Todd wrote.
Question one.
Okay, you do Todd's, please.
First, I think I need to rush.
I have Todd's and it does have the questions.
Yeah, with it.
I posted the email that I sent to the in-laws home on second.
This is all out of order.
So, if you open up Todd's one,
there's all go of nested emails in there.
Yes.
So, let's read that from the bottom and then work away up.
Okay.
So, I contacted God.
Oh, I don't have to read this.
So, would that be from your one?
It says on Wednesday, August 17th, and you're showing
with permission, I am posting the email
and my response to the Linux in there.
Okay, yeah.
So, hi, Lad.
As I think you're aware, yeah, that's it.
I'm a discussion we carried out on the main list,
following my request for clarity as the nature of HPR.
Community is of the opinion that we are not a host hosting platform.
We do not host podcasts.
All our series are considered to be episodes
that are part of the HPR podcast.
This puts your show at odds with the rule
of only releasing material exclusively for HPR.
As we have applied this rule to a lot of podcasts,
we kind of make an exception here.
So, if you wish to continue to post to HPR,
then you need to ensure that content is produced exclusively
for HPR.
If you decide not to follow this path,
then your future episodes will need to be hosted elsewhere.
As you are a creative commons podcast,
then you can, then the internet archive
would seem to be a logical place to host the shows.
We are obviously willing to assist with the transition.
And we can also add you to the show,
to the show page on freecultipodcast.org,
which by default gets you exposure at any of the fests
that our contributors attend.
We can also send out notices to other people
to let them know who maintain podcasts,
floss podcasts lists.
Given that a lot of people are subscribing to your RSS feed,
we can hard-corder redirect to the in-laws feed
that they're maintaining over us in-laws.
I'm just going to score RSS.xml on linuxinlaws.eu.
If you want to subscribe, now's your chance.
And that way you don't lose any dedicated subscribers.
We will also remind people to add their feed
in the upcoming community news.
I know this is not great news for you,
but I'm not enjoying being a master.
Okay, well, tell me what you just said.
And as always, you can bypass us
and bring us up on the mailing list
or you can contact a small group of auditors
to discuss it privately with them.
Then you can probably do the in-laws.
Okay, so the in-laws route,
I can, we certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list
with trying disbelief to be honest.
And as yet, have not commented.
As linuxinlaws, we applaud the democratic approach
by listening to the community.
The same time we have to ask ourselves,
can a handful of people commenting on
and mailing be considered the whole community?
As you well know, the silent majority
tend not to comment on mailing lists.
That being said, we also need to look
at the actual arguments being made.
HPR is not a podcasting platform
and doesn't allow syndication.
We fully agree and comply with this.
As far as linuxinlaws are concerned,
we are a series on HPR,
just like many others.
To argue the case,
all our content is exclusively produced
for and released on HPR.
Yes, we have a website,
but the same can be said
for many serial content producers on HPR.
Website is supporting only
and does not host
and our recordings.
Our setup and the way we publish material
has been the same from the start.
So why does sudden change of direction for HPR?
We feel rather single-out in this discussion
and consider us no different
to other series producers on HPR.
More than happy to discuss,
we greatly appreciate HPR
and we prefer to remain a part of it,
Martin and Chris.
My response to the point
are as follows,
about the handful of people
about the mailing list governance.
I give a link to our about page
and the section governance.
These emails are also brought
to the attention of the entire community,
every first Monday of the month,
and the community news show,
you're listening to it live.
Their community in its entirety
can and do provide comments.
Any proposal,
unimprovements are welcome.
And then to their point about
the website.
Yes, we have a website,
but the same can be said
of many serial content producers on HPR.
And I said,
please give me an example
of the Schiller series on HPR
that is a zone intro and outro.
Arch operates its own website.
Has its own feed
that posts shows prior to them being
nearer than HPR?
They will also qualify
as a sentencing HG show
and will be treated according to the same rules.
In response to our setup
that we published material
has been the same since the start.
We made you aware of this
in the welcome email I sent
to new hosts
and about syndication, etc.
And why does it change in direction?
And I reply because of your statement
in the show 3649.
If we, where he says,
if we take a look at archive.org
the last year and a half,
we clock in since we lost this podcast
short of two and a half years ago.
It's quite amazing.
Therefore you consider yourself a podcast
and HPR to be a podcast hosting platform
from your perspective.
And all our content is produced
for HPR.
I said, and yet the website says
all episodes are hosted on HPR.
We feel rather in response to
we feel rather singled out
in the discussion considers
no different from other series.
I reply, I am very sorry
that you feel that way,
but you're not the first
and you won't be the last podcast
to have the rules applied.
At the time, we have had to drop
three different shows from the podcast
and turn away three different
20 different podcasts since then.
I can be assured
you that we would have preferred
to have dealt with this at the beginning.
Now you can do narcissist.
This is reply.
Okay.
Norris replies.
I have a few questions
about the syndication policy.
Hopefully I'm not over complicating the issue.
Question one.
What would it take to get the Linux
in-laws into compliance
with the HPR syndication policy?
The biggest issue I see is
the separate Linux in-laws
feeds with unpublished HPR episodes.
What if they replace their feed
with the HPR series feed?
Question two is
is a HPR host having a separate website
to promote their HPR episodes?
Okay.
Question three.
Many HPR episodes are audio versions
of a web page previously published by the host.
Does an audio version of an existing web page
verbatim or summarized meet the requirement
of material created exclusively for HPR?
So I reply.
The HPR syndication policy was designed
to stop other cult cast
from monopolizing slots in HPR.
So in response to question one,
stop being a podcast,
start posting shows,
consider shows from tattoo
are not wise.
Do you have any difficulty knowing
if their shows were intended for HPR
or if they were from their own podcasts?
In response to question two,
having a separate website
and promoting on HPR?
The answer is yes.
Of course, have a look at
Ahuka's Wheeling Hacker Public Radio.
In fact, when he submits a show
or posts there,
we see several hundred redrex
from his site to HPR.
Question three.
Does the audio version extend web page, etc?
Does that meet the requirements
of material created exclusively for HPR?
Probably not because it is content
because does the audio version
of existing web page
meet the requirements of material created
exclusively for HPR?
Probably not.
It is their content
and they are creating new medium from HPR.
Take the dust series that was posted
years ago, but the shows were recorded
for his HPR.
However, it will be done on the case by case
basis.
The biggest issue he sees is
separate feet.
I reply, no, that's not the biggest issue.
The biggest issue is that we've been
turning other podcasts away
with the same reason
that we turned to Linux in those.
We do not syndicate podcasts on HPR,
so is the Linux in those a podcast?
It's to use the same,
if it looks like a duck,
walks like a duck,
and quacks like a duck,
it's a duck.
Okay, and actually,
what I'm not even sure
coming across here,
what the issue was,
or even rereading this,
even though it didn't apply here.
But if we say
somebody can host on HPR,
you could take, I don't know,
a tattoo show,
the Guinea World Order.
And he could post all his shows on HPR,
and then maintain his own feed,
pointing to the internet archive,
or his shows on HPR.
And that would
conform to the rules in paper,
on paper.
Both.
Yeah, don't know if you get one,
I mean, why there's an issue with this.
I mean,
sorry.
They are in those matters
about that there are series
and that they're hosting on HPR.
You know, everything is pointing to HPR.
Even if we accepted that argument,
we could have all the other podcasts
do exactly the same thing,
just publish their regular show
onto our feed,
onto via the HPR website.
Yeah, yes.
And then, you know,
that's
what the whole syndicate rule was about.
Okay.
And this is the Yannick one,
which is classic.
Gosh.
And this is why Yannick appeared.
Yannick says,
gosh, I didn't think anything would break,
we break my silence,
but I have to.
I'm not the sort of guy to say,
I told you so.
Boss.
Dot dot dot.
On Thursday,
February 13th,
at 440,
40,
PST,
2020.
That's two and a half years ago.
I wrote an email titled HPR
3009,
in which I said,
I'm writing you today
because I'm concerned about episodes 3009.
This seems to me
to be a clear case of syndication.
First the title,
Linux and those season one episode one,
and then the fact that there's no mention of HPR at all
in the show.
The whole thing is there,
and the link,
I stand by my position.
The Linux in those in this current form
has no business on HPR.
And they're in brackets.
Oh, well, I better go to it for now.
I told you so.
Anyway, back to being silent.
Yannick, the French guy from Switzerland.
Now, this is what I completely forgotten to do
and maintain and manage.
That was amazing.
Like when I read that one.
So, thanks Yannick.
I write completely forgotten this thread.
Link to the show notes.
Then I was at the standard fostem
and I spoke to Chris and it became clear
that their website and feed were not active.
So they are posting exclusively HPR.
So we are bootstrapping their show for them.
Once they have everything ready,
they will move their show to their own feeds
and become their own
arm-free cultural podcast site.
Leuander.
Yeah, do Jason.
I missed most of this because work is beating me down.
But it has always appeared to me
that Linux in Las was made for HPR so far.
Richard, I'm just walking up to this next one.
Sambong, who says,
I feel it is how one represents themselves
an episode of four HPR
or a podcast hosted on HPR.
I agree with the policy current HPR
is not a host in my view.
Let's sign by Brian.
And I reply a total agree.
They were intended to be hosted on HPR for now.
To be honest, I don't think
the even new HPR was anything other than
the podcast hosting platform
based on listening to episode 3649
20 years in review.
I was the first to make the distinction
between podcast and podcast hosting platform
in my response show and I met it clear
in there what they consider
to be a podcast hosting platform.
In this episode or two,
aging things called
Hacker Public Radio, yes,
the platform that the in-laws have been using
since its very inception
of this rapidly growing
floss podcast content.
That's why I asked the email list
are we a podcast hosting platform?
If we were, there would be some justification
for them to continue here
as there are not, then there isn't.
Okay, should I do Jason Dodd?
He says, please.
I'm confused.
One of my unrealized goals
is to create at least one show,
at least one show a week,
naming them with some catchy name
plus an incrementing number.
Posting them exclusively to HPR.
That seems to be what the in-laws have been doing.
Is the thinking I can't do that
because HPR is not a podcast hosting platform?
Let's see.
Kevin O'Brien says,
I would think there are two problems here,
potentially.
First, if your plan amounts to having
HPR host your own podcast,
obviously that is wrong.
But we also ask that people do not post
more than once every two weeks.
You may know that I have adhered
to this pretty strictly,
unless there is an emergency of low shows.
And even then, I check with the janitor's first
to see if they want the added show.
Having a series on HPR is not a problem,
but I think we do that by topic.
I have started several series here,
but I've always made it clear
that I don't own the topic,
and everyone else is free to contribute.
To me, the ethos of HPR
is that it is a collective
in which group members contribute.
And to be clear, all of the above
in my personal opinion,
which others are free to disregard with,
regardless.
Jason says,
that I suppose I'll stop with the shows
that I do have recorded,
but haven't uploaded.
I consider the few shows I've done now,
my irregular podcast that's posted to HPR.
And he says,
we also have people do not post more than once every two weeks.
That's true.
I was being a bit optimistic,
I show every two months from me,
it would be downright impressive.
And Hook says that his personal opinion,
what he said, I guess,
it's a distinction without a difference to me.
A series on HPR
is the same as a podcast on a specific topic
only hosted on HPR.
This discussion has been informative.
I now know what I plan to do
wouldn't be appropriate for HPR.
Fortunately, what I'm doing
is perfectly suitable for HPR,
listening and continuing to procrastinate
on sitting down to record a show
every two or three weeks.
And I reply,
it takes very little to run your own podcast.
Nowadays,
Chris account on the Internet Archive,
upload your media there,
Chris smaller SS file,
on your own domain,
which points to the media
on the Internet Archive and you're done.
You can help you if you run into problems
and advise you how you can increase your exposure.
And there's about a series on HPR
is the same as a podcast
on a specific topic only hosted on HPR.
HPR tag is an ad hoc
grouping of a shows on the topic.
A HPR series tends to be opened
to multiple holes
on a defining group around the topic.
For example,
there's 50 on how I got into tech.
There's 44 interviews,
34, what's in my toolkit?
20 in privacy and security,
etc.
So X1-101,
replying to Jason Todd on I guess it's a distinction
without a difference to me.
I disagree.
There's a very clear difference.
I would be welcome.
May encourage to add shows
to the DOS,
GIMP security and privacy
or any of the other
fantastic series that Kevin has started.
Slash contributed to over the years.
I don't think the same would be considered true
for Linux in-laws.
Interesting.
The host of U-Random,
myself,
Taj,
Poki,
had a discussion about this
when we decided that we couldn't maintain
our audiobook club schedule,
but still wanted to do a show.
One disgust option was to do a few HPR exclusive episodes
to work out the bugs
and then host it ourselves
because the policy has always been clear
about the difference between
HPR series and its syndicated podcasts
last episode.
We didn't do this because we found other ways to approach it.
Policies clear and this is absolutely
slid into a clear violation of the policy.
And Claudio says,
Hi, everybody.
I've been following this email thread for quite a while,
but haven't said much of anything,
but I am an agreement.
HPR is a podcast
and not a podcasting hosting platform.
The reason being this follows.
There used to be a couple of guys
who started
on HPR, the Iliam Brothers podcast.
They had a number of episodes in HPR,
but the eventual intent to find
a mistake was to move away from the HPR host
and host their podcasts on their own.
They were merely using HPR as a large
pad for their own podcast
to gather some listeners.
Eventually, they did move on
to their own feed for their podcasts,
but sadly, it popped faded.
Some of their HPR episodes are still
available via the archive,
so that should give HPR enough backing
regarding the situation.
Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter.
I can read Christophe's
once, dear community.
First of all, the in-laws would like to thank
the HPR community for their feedback
over the years, and especially the last few days.
Ken is, of course, right?
And pointing out the bootstrapping argument
in Wednesday's reply to the NX mail,
though we never really defined
how long this bootstrapping period would last.
In addition to the above,
the assessment of the situation
in our mail from Wednesday,
republishing Ken's mail,
the situation from an in-laws perspective
hasn't changed since we published our first episode
in the early 2020.
The content is published exclusively
on HPR and RIS speed points to HPR only.
Having said that, I cannot get rid
of that sinking feeling that HPR
and its community shy away from success.
If Ken's analysis published recently,
reference one, it's anything to go by.
We are one of HPR's most popular podcasts,
which regularly publishes content.
In addition to the fact that we are syndicated left,
right and center without any involvement of our own,
as we found out a while ago,
there's, for an example,
a YouTube channel republishing the audio content
and giving HPR credit.
But let's take a look at the bigger picture.
If our experience never mind the feedback
we are getting through official and other channels
or anything to go by,
the vast majority of our listeners
couldn't care less where they get their episodes from.
They heard or read about the podcasts,
search for the RIS speed,
subscribe to it,
and if they like what they hear,
download from a server,
they stick with us.
End of story.
In this light, any discussion about
wording podcasts versus hosting platforms
that set is academic and thus a relevant
for these listeners.
Playing devil's advocates for the above,
of course, never mind ignoring bylaws,
it's that smiley face.
Course bylaws are bylaws and feelings
that we may have overstayed our welcome.
We are happy to move the content elsewhere,
probably archive.org as suggested by Ken,
which also has a side effect of reducing the technical debt
of the corresponding automation workflow significantly.
But do so with a bittersweet feeling as we do believe
in the true spirit of the floss communities
and their welcoming, inclusive attitude,
thus having made every effort to promote HPR
and its cause as part of the episodes and elsewhere,
which is in stark contrast to the wording
of some of the comments posted to the HPR mailing list
over the last couple days.
On an interesting side note,
HPR seems to be actively soliciting podcasts
from other platforms if, for example,
the case of grumpy old coders is anything to go by.
In its most recent episode,
David speaks about HPR having reached out to them,
trying to move them over to HPR.
Given the fact, this format is hosted
on a proprietary platform soundcloud
with their formatics exhibiting far more restrictive aspects.
For example, they publish their content
under all rights reserved license and contrast
to CC bySA as preferred by HPR.
And knowing David, the producer of this format
quite well as he has been one of my colleagues
for the last years,
it would surprise me if such an endeavor would prove successful.
Nevermind the above, the in-laws would like to thank HPR
for having us for the last two and a half years
and wish this platform our word smiley face
every possible success for the future.
But it may help in order to avoid similar incidents
in the future to be clear about syndication,
nevermind what the difference is between a show,
a series, and a podcast as far as HPR is concerned.
As the wording in reference four is somewhat,
is somewhat cursed.
And then they have their references listed.
Yeah, and I reply,
Hi, Christopher.
While you're in touch with your opinions,
I do need to correct you on a few inaccuracies
in your mail regarding if Ken Sinalis
has published his anything to go by
where HPR is most popular podcast.
What I didn't include in the in-assess was the 170 additional
subscribers that you get to your own feed.
As no one else promotes their own HPR subscribers,
we need to track that from the download figures
to be fair to the other shows.
So the first day release numbers of the show,
mostly averaging 700 between 726 and 753,
that would make their first download 583.
Regarding the YouTube channel content
and giving HPR credit,
I can't see that their assigning credit
are even the flagging the content
as credit comes unless you mean in the audio stream itself,
which was created by HPR.
And I gave a YouTube DL JSON download dump
where I confirmed that there is no mention
of hacker-public radio or hacker,
indeed, or HPR are the word creative commons.
With Garrett, David speaks about HPR,
having reached out to find, move them over.
The statement is not correct,
and I would appreciate it if you could contact Dave
and correct his understanding.
Fortunately, the entire conversation
is publicly on Twitter.
Have you, where I say, have you ever considered
releasing your content as creative commons?
We promote shows both on HPR
and also on free codefairpodcast.org.
For both, we would need to have your RSS feed
or you don't qualify as a podcast.
Somebody do...
I'll do X1101.
See this right here.
He says referring to...
Looks like in those, say,
the one of HPR's most popular podcast.
See, this right here is exactly the disconnect.
HPR is one podcast.
It simply cannot be one of HPR's most popular podcast,
because brackets 1 is not a competition,
and more importantly,
HPR is a single podcast.
Then in relation to...
the RSS feed and the similar argument,
sure, fine, whatever.
That's not really relevant to the questions
at hand, one way or the other.
And if it were, very much points to you
using HPR as something that we,
the broader HPR community have decided
that it is not a platform to host your own podcast from.
And then in this slide,
any discussion about wording podcasts
versus hosting platforms, etc.
is academic in the original.
X1101 says, maybe, but they aren't on to us.
And be comment about bylaws or bylaws.
I don't want to point out that,
that was not the only option presented.
And regarding reducing the technical debt
of corresponding automation workflow significantly,
meaning I've kept it all easier to drive than HPR is,
this is absolutely no call for this kind of backhanded comment.
The HPR admins, Struck Genesis, have consistently worked
to improve the tooling of the site to support the HPR workflow,
while keeping everything already exist functional as it is.
This is one of the worst sour grapes examples I've seen in the long time
and really belittlest the work they do.
To circle back to one more point, he says,
having said the quote is having said that I can't get rid of that sinking feeling
that HPR and its community shy away from a success.
No, says X1101, I think we define success differently,
speaking personally, if the success of any one HPR series
doesn't translate into success for the community as a whole,
then it's not really success for HPR.
Having said all that, I still wish the best of luck going forward.
I hope that this is nothing more than an honest disagreement
between a group of well-meaning folks.
And the insight he says,
it's good because of this, no one will be able to question whether listeners
are your own or HPRs, making any claims of success irrevocable.
Perhaps your right that HPR has tended to shy away from success in those 17 years.
Jokes aside, I do enjoy your shows and appreciate your work
to feature guests we want to hear from.
So I look forward to subscribing to your feed and continuing to listen.
Now for the things pertaining to HPR that we all have talked about here,
I think considering how easy it is to have your own CC license podcast
by hosting it on the IA and how well such prospective podcasters can be
expected to host an RSS feed to point to the audio files,
it seems likely the only really good reason to slosh one's podcast into the HPR feed
is to access HPR listeners.
Then the question for the community should be,
do we want to sample new podcasts within the HPR feed?
For me, the answer would tend to be no because again,
I think we should always keep the focus on attracting new contributors.
It's what sets HPR apart and it's the principle that should guide every decision without exception.
It's the diversity of voices and experiences of people who wouldn't be otherwise a podcaster.
If someone can argue that this would help convince listeners to become
entrepreneurs, then we should talk about it.
For me, a new podcast host or host wanting to gain subscribers can send a regular HPR show on
Tell us how that if we like their vibe, they're started their own podcast, we can subscribe to
as tattooers don't. Those who like it will follow.
And Carl Hammond replies, let's see, too.
This is I think to D&T's comment on focusing on attracting new contributors,
what's a HPR part. This is what the HPR community has defined as success.
More contributors, not more listeners, not more episodes per contributor.
Granted, more listeners can be a means to that end,
but probably not if those listeners couldn't care less where they get their episodes from.
I've enjoyed the handful of the in-laws episodes I've listened to,
but I think our goals just aren't aligned.
If HPR carried, as though it were a network,
10 twice monthly podcasts, there would be no slots left open for new contributors.
That's the reason the current policy exists, and we should seek to apply it equitably.
I appreciate Ken's offer about aiding in a smooth transition or for listeners who have come to
Linux and laws VHPR. I hope that sentiment makes the intent clear. This is not a banishment,
but rather an acknowledgement that you've outgrown us, struggling to communicate clearly from
a French keyboard, because I am too lazy to change it. It doesn't lean there.
And Kevin says I completely agree we need more hosts who are part of HPR.
Brian Navarette, who is Brian in Ohio, says goodbye in laws. You'll never be as good as the outlaws.
No jokes aside. Oh, that bird. That bird.
Um, let me see. I think that was the end, unless there's another thread.
No, let's say we have to go back to the very first one where I give the sum.
No, there was more. Or was it later on? Maybe it was the next one.
Well, I'm better covered now because I don't want to go back to this.
Are you sure?
I don't see anything in.
Yeah, I think we managed to cover them all.
No, because I've replied. I've replied to that with an apology, actually.
Maybe not.
So your message of the 22nd can, which was sent,
you replied to, um, monochromic and to the list.
So is that the one or is it another, another man in the middle of the world?
It was then because I sent it in the middle of the night,
a four o'clock in the morning or in the middle of the night.
I went to the admin list.
The least I've got. Oh, no, it went.
It's, it's on the admin list.
I think the one you're thinking of.
Did he go to the admin list?
Did he not go to the mailing list?
On the 20th, I will go to the admin list with the reply from Christoph.
Oh, I didn't, did I not send it?
Oh, that has, that should have gone to everybody.
Right, send it to everybody now.
Okay, um, I'll read it now, even though it's covered in the next one.
Too long didn't read.
Ken makes up to find out that he is wrong again and holds the Linux and holds an apology.
Hi, all I've had some time to stand back and think about how I've handled this situation
and now all the Linux in walls and apology.
As this stage, it's several times from their point of view, nothing has changed since joining HBUR.
They still believe, at believe, they believed and believe HBUR to be a podcast hosting
platform that they have used in good faith.
I now see that in the, in that light, they have done all that was asked of them and more.
In forgetting that we were bootstrapping their podcast and getting frustrated at their
apparent flattening of the syndication room, I have done HBUR and the Linux in laws of disservice.
They have not done anything wrong.
I would like to apologize to all concerned.
Unfortunately, as I have spent so much effort putting HBUR, proving HBUR is not a podcast hosting
platform. I am now left with the problem of dealing with a floss podcast without a home.
This is not a good look and is exactly the opposite of what I was trying to achieve.
The in laws will need some time to transition to their own site.
Their schedule is recorded several months in advance, so they will need some time to migrate
in an orderly fashion. The move to a new hosting would need to be earned out as well as
notifying their listeners as to the change that is happening. We need to make sure that the
feeds redirect automatically. I would like to ask the HBUR community's tolerance for this
exception for a period of say six months so that we can round season one off here in good order.
I hope that extra time will give them the opportunity to mend some fences.
Suffice to say I owe Martin, Chris and indeed Yannick some beers at
Fostem for this mess. And I'll do the replies from Chris as well because it makes sense.
Hi, I am HBUR Remains. No worries. We would like to thank HBUR for having us for the last
year and a half years. And remember that once the laws have reached their ultimate goal,
world domination. All ten that until then the second ten beers are on us when we meet again
at the next Fostem or whatever. Let's take the technical transition or RSS feed all fine and Chris
will be in touch via the HBUR mainly shortly. Okay, to get all that, I don't know that may seem
strange to people, but when I sat down and talked about it from the in laws point of view,
they consider us to be a HBUR to be a podcast hosting platform. And from that perspective,
there were boots strapping their show. Admittedly, two and a half years is a long brutal process,
but that said, yeah, that's just amazing. I never got the feeling that they were working from
a dishonest position. I think they just were, and it sucks that it got to this point and the
mailing list did get a little heated at times, but I think Ken, you've done a great job.
I know you've probably kicking yourself every time you think about it, but you've handled it well.
They've been very gracious in dealing with the change. And I think that response,
I mean, it would have been nice to see it on the mailing list because it did sort of all of a
sudden, I do remember you saying something about, at some point, the least the next couple
shows being hosted. I don't remember where I heard that, but I do remember hearing or reading
that somewhere. My defense was war in the morning and I took the wrong email.
Yeah, no. I mean, it happens. But I think that's, it's a fair resolution to the situation.
I mean, no, they weren't everybody's cup of tea, but I think it's good to keep the
defenses as mended as much as we can. And I think it's good that we're helping them transition,
and everything I'm sure you've had to go do to make it possible. So not a great situation,
but I think overall, I think in the long run, it'll all be good.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I should have, I should have kept track of the,
of the, if we were doing a bootstrap thing, I should have kept track of that. And then, you know,
three shows in, and their website is open, there are our speeders on. I should have contacted
them to ask them, okay, what the plan was. But anyway, that's the problem, Yannick. You should
have reminded me, I blame Yannick. Let's all blame Yannick. We could do with some sort of a leaf
little or something for doing that type of situation, you know. We'd like you to, to bootstrap
by RHPL, or if you would like to do that, then you were open to it. But here are the, here are the
ground rules. Yeah, I don't think we'll do that again. I really don't, because right now, what we do,
what I would do is, it's so easy to post to the internal archive now. You know, there's,
right, true. And if somebody doesn't have the money for their own domain, yeah, we can,
we can see about getting them their own domain and, you know, asking somebody's sponsor for a year
or whatever, because, you know, there's no, yeah, there's no benefit in going via HCR. Well, there is,
yeah, you get you and I, you get me transcoding the shows and you get you doing the grammar check
and the show notes and everything in order. And you get that whole thing. But unless it's a,
unless the HCR episode, I really don't want to be spending that effort on it. Granted, with a
free culture podcast website, we do contact those sites if they've got anything wrong with their
XML file or stuff like that to help them out. So we will help shows. That's what we're here to do,
but our GoVHPR doesn't add any value because it also has a restrictive view. You know how frustrated
the endless guys were with them not being able to automate the uploads. And now I can completely
see, you know, I was just looking at the amount of like support requests that we had was by far
more coming from, from the endless guys than anybody else. And I can completely see why now,
because your podcast focused on platform, yet you're not making it easy for us to host our
podcast in your platform. Yeah, but your, your HPR, your part of the HPR, yeah, but your
podcast hosting platform. So I can, you know, for talk in the morning, woke up and I completely
realized why they're sort of frustrated with the whole thing. But, you know, and to me,
I always had the feeling we had this special, but I don't just post. They won't automate so badly,
but I don't just go to the internet archive, and they go, but to, to them, we are the internet
archive. You know, we're just a way of hosting the idea. And two and a half years ago, it was a
lot harder to post to the internet archive. Yes, yes, it was getting better at that point
in my experience, but, but it was not very well documented and that type of thing. So, yeah,
yeah, but they do have tools where you can just say, here's my show, here's all the stuff,
here's all the files, put it up on the, on the IA, and you can do it from your, your own machine.
If you have a author, the authentication, et cetera, et cetera. So it has become very easy.
So, good. Yeah. And Jason Dodd just replied, going, the whole thing has moved me firmly into
the listener's side of the house. If the mixing those isn't for HBR, none of my content would be.
Yeah, and that brings me back to the question, like, if you're running your own podcast, like
tattoo, for instance, how does tattoo work? Well, I have lots of questions for tattoo.
And tattoo should come to foster them, by the way, just by the way, we're already got them at 0.5%
chance that you will be there, folks. So if you encourage him, send an email to tattoo,
ask whatever his email address is now and tell him to come to foster them. That's a by the way.
How does he decide what show goes to the new world order and what show goes to HBR? That's a,
that's an interesting topic, actually. That would be a show in itself.
Yeah, sure, sure. But he's going to go on a new world order, would it go to HBR?
Yeah. And the first training thing is, I hear a tattoo show and I go, okay, where is it?
I really hope it's on HBR because then the show notes go to be better. Sorry, that's a dig as Dave
forcing everybody to have show notes. Show notes are important. Look at some of the show notes
we've looked at today. Wow. Oh, yeah, I think it makes my point. Yeah, it does. They're
for also for accessibility reasons. I mean, go into it 100,000 times.
It's, if you do go to a new world order, it's very difficult to find the episodes with just a
one-liner. Sometimes he doesn't even have it that he discussed an entire topic. It makes it
frustrating to find. Yes, I know. I enjoy the topics that he covers. I have an occasion
going on. What was that thing again? Oh, I will never know. Let's say listen to the show again.
Actually, what we need to do is we need to have HB Lovecraft go over and do all his shows.
It's going to require some, it's going to require some cash that he's seeing as his face.
Okay, have we flung this one to death? There's going to be a two-hour show.
Seems quite flugged from my perspective. Okay, well, hopefully we won't have to deal with any of the
fallout from that. But we have the redirects in place and well, not in place, yes, until
done both. We have a test redirect in place. That should work. Then we need to pimp their show
so that people subscribe to their podcast. And all should be good. Any other business, Dave?
There were two AOB things. One was the GITI repository that we're using on an honest host.
Requires people to log in to view the repositories and Josh is very keen that that
would be the case. He doesn't want an anonymous access to it. So are we having with that or
do we want to move the code elsewhere? That's the question.
Yeah, that is the question. We're putting it here because the community needs to decide
my personal opinion is to have an account. What makes that?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it means you could potentially upgrade to being a contributor more easily.
The other subject, sorry, I just thought that as well because it means that at some day we might go
to submitting your shows via a pull request or something up there. And Rohan will have to
explain to me how this all works because he seems to be using the site as I was intended. And I'm
not able to do that. So call for shows there, Rohan. Can you record how to use GITLAB?
I can do that. I'll add that to my Aussamia Shore document.
Okay, so I got you off there, please. No, just to say the re-upload stuff is still progressing.
I got so fed up with fiddling around with the numbers to give an update each month. I just
turned it into a table, which just gets pulled out of the database. It saves me a lot less
a lot of work. So we've done 155 this month. And there's 828 to go.
Sorry, Rohan, I caught you off there doing the shop or about using GITLAB GITTI.
Oh, no, yeah, I can, that is a good idea. I hadn't really thought about that.
Yeah, okay, I don't know what other, I had to, yeah, I kind of mixed on, I could definitely see
needing, and I understand, I mean, it's just prerogative as far as like needing that. It's just
I'm afraid that some people aren't just going to like go and landsat it. I don't know, you know,
it's like, do you allow read only for the public and not, but anyway, that's another thing. If I
can always, I mean, we could always have like a copy of it running somewhere and just, you know,
say if you want to participate, come to the actual thing, and I could maintain, you know,
keeping them synchronized. But anyway, it's not a big deal. It's fine the way it is, but I do
encourage people, please just go sign up, take a look at the code, give us some feedback. It would be
a big help. Keep my encouragement up. Yeah, I think, but on the repo, you can actually log in with
GitLab or Google account or an open ID or something like that. So you don't have to physically
create a new account. You can just extend your credentials over there. So it's not that big a deal.
Well, I get your point. We should probably make a version of the code, you know, just have it on
the website or something. Yeah, we should probably talk to Poppy about this because it's his fault
we're doing this in the first place. And not to extend it, maybe I'll just post this either to you
or I'm just thinking, because I thought at one point you had said you wanted to have like,
instead of using like our sync, basically a Git of the whole website, and then you would just
like do a pull to get everything. Well, for the code, you would do a pull down the repo and then
you get access to your code and everything's hunky-dory there. For the website, and then you could
generate your own copy of the website if you wanted or you publish it to a nursing site. And then
we can set up a nursing from there. The people can nursing the entire thing. Okay, all right, all right.
Yeah, both. It's not mutually exclusive. I'm on both.
I wanted now. Okay, well, we'll talk offline about publishing them to public hacker radio.
Yeah, hobby public radio. Just a hobby, sorry. Yeah, yeah. The hobby public radio that would be
another one is probably appropriate, given her. But we also have a think about how one would
post shows via Git. Yeah, I mean, we would. Yeah, have a think about that.
People having ideas of that submitted show that would be a good one to figure out.
Okay, it is now seven o'clock in the evening. There is no chance whatsoever that I will be able to
go out and finish the job that it was doing with the garden. Yes. So there you go.
That worked out really well then. Yeah, this whole mix and the last thing was a was just a way
to rely on the community. So I would be plenty of feedback. So I'd be stuck in here and get under
work. I still have time in my day to go do the graphs. Unfortunately. Yeah. Okay, folks,
tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of hacker public public. No, no, no, from the top.
I go hacker. Dave goes public and then you go radio. Really?
tune in tomorrow. But you know, that won't work. I go tune in tomorrow. Dave goes hacker,
you go public and we all go radio. How about that? tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode
of hacker public radio. And anybody who has survived to the end of this, please add a comment in
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