hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr4132.txt

Episode: 4132
Title: HPR4132: Urandom talks about the future of HPR
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4132/hpr4132.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 20:00:34

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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 4132 for Tuesday the 4th of June 2024.
Today's show is entitled, You Random Talks About the Future of HPR.
It is hosted by Facerre and is about 43 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is, The You Random Lads Talk in Circles for about an hour about HPR.
What's good everybody? This is Taj.
I just wanted to clip this little section out of the show that I do with Lyle and Pokey,
The You Random Podcast, where we had a discussion about a recent episode of HPR.
Just a disclaimer, we are pretty irreverent in how we approach things.
And a lot of this is us just sort of thinking things through and playing Devils Advocate,
really trying to poke holes in each other's arguments.
And that's sort of what we do.
If you hear something in the discussion that you totally disagree with,
just stick around a few minutes, it will probably change our opinion somewhere along the line.
I hope it's interesting, I hope it furthers the conversation.
And with that, here we go.
Hey Taj, you have a topic there that is very much poking the bear and I want to,
because I want to know what you think.
Okay.
So I guess all I have to say is sorry Ken, we're doing this here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I figured I put this here because I was like, are we going to get into this now?
But yeah, in the reason I want to talk about it here is my thoughts are not fully baked.
And I kind of need to cross check them with like my bros so you guys can like poke holes in my
stuff or tell me I'm right.
So what you're saying is you're going to bring your half baked ideas to us and expect us to
improve them or just bake them.
I don't know.
This is this whole like metaphor is breaking down right now.
It's fair.
I do the same thing to you guys.
Okay.
So I guess have both of you listened to the episode I'm talking about.
So, Taj, I have to tell you as soon as I read what you wrote here.
No, no, I knew what episode it was and click the link to make sure and I was correct.
I'm like, what episode have I heard recently that Taj is going to want to talk about?
Yup, it was that one.
Poki didn't answer.
I have not.
Checking.
I have to confess.
I have not listened to HPR and so long.
That's going to be part of my what I have to say.
Okay, so I don't want to say that in words.
So let me pull up this so I can like read words that the contributors.
And so I don't you give the folks at home who don't have the advantage of our show notes.
The readers digest version first.
So nightwise on HPR, which I don't think he listens to this.
But if you do, hey, what's up, nightwise?
Put a it was episode 4109 entitled The Future of HPR.
And he put that it's talk about some changes.
HPR could could embrace to become future proof.
And so he had a few things that he thought would make HPR.
I guess future proof is what he's saying.
He's not saying better.
He's not saying, but he has some opinions on where Hacker Public Radio needs to go.
I want to interject here.
Okay, I was going to say correct you, but I don't think that's true.
I think I'm going to interject because I think I interpreted it differently.
I don't think he said that a Hacker Public Radio needs to do this.
I think he said Hacker Public Radio could do this and could benefit from doing this.
And that's fair. That's that's one of the reasons that like we're having this conversation.
I don't think he said you have to do this.
He said I see some opera what I what I think I heard when I listened to it is.
I see some opportunities for improvement as part of the community.
I feel obliged to share those opportunities for improvement with everyone.
And if you don't want to do it, that's fine.
But here's what I see.
That's how I internalized all of it.
Yeah, and I don't think you're wrong.
I think that that's pretty accurate.
But it's which is a reasonable way to go about things.
Just before we go too far, I just want to now seems the right time.
I have tried to future proof things before and it never works.
I'm a whole lifetime.
I've never seen anything future proof and and stay future proof.
The last device I'm aware of that stayed future proof was a sundial and we just haven't
really shot me.
Maybe a hammer, but even then there's been so much like there's even hammers.
There's technology and hammers every year that somebody's got to buy a new hammer,
a $300 hammer because the old $300 hammer has been outmoded.
I don't I honestly have given up on the hope that there is such a thing as future proof.
I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree but have a perspective change for you.
I don't mean that it's not noble to try.
I still do try to make things future proof.
I just don't have any hope anymore.
I'm going to so there was a saying that at least used to kick around in the security community
that I think is appropriate here too.
At least used to say security isn't a product.
It's a process.
And so in that case they're like it's not a thing that you can get or not a thing that you can
be. It's a thing that you do.
And so to me future proofing something is not making this widget is going to be the last
widget you ever need.
What your future proofing is the way we design widgets.
The process in which we go about designing widgets is a process that's going to continue to work.
Which may or may not I think it's more relevant to HBR but it doesn't contradict what you're
saying about an individual things future proof ability.
I feel like I went through about four metaphors there. Do you think you followed me?
Yeah. Yeah. No, I like it. That's good.
Okay. So to kind of I'm going to try and reset that so that to make sure that I'm saying what
I mean here. It's not that HPR wouldn't would be future proof because I agree that's not really
a place you can get to. But the way that we approach doing HPR makes it so it is designed to
evolve as things change. That's good design. Yeah.
You know, the constitution does that and it does it pretty well.
GPL does that and does it pretty well. So yes, I think that is good design.
Okay. So I guess, Poke, you kind of you kind of said something that I'm curious about
is that you're not listening to it anymore.
Because I've also kind of like disengagement HPR for like a few different reasons.
And I think while he's while nightwise is trying to like focus on future people,
which I think is good. I think we need to focus on people who are already here too. So like,
why have you stopped listening to HPR episodes?
There's a number of reasons and very few of them if any are actually HPR's fault. So
I mean, I just don't have the time to listen to podcasts like I used to. I don't have time to engage
in HPR the way I used to. I don't go on IRC like I used to. I just don't do those things.
A long, long time ago, I asked the HPR community at large because obviously I'm a
troglodyte when it comes to computers. If there was a way we could, you know, put a forum together
because at the time and in my personal history, I've been very engaged in forums.
But I don't know that even not still I don't even if that had been done, I don't know if it would
have changed my situation because I don't even engage in forums anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I think
part of what you're saying is kind of true for me too is like there's a time thing that is
definitely part of it. But I've got like other reasons. I'm not contributing to HPR or like
listening to it as much as I used to. Lyle, you got anything to say about this? I know some of
them you skipped, but I don't know how often you listen. I am still subscribed as I show up in my
podcast feed. I DQ anything that DQ as in remove from the Q anything that does not sound
I will read the subject if it is an immediate turn off I remove it. I start listening if I'm
not interested I skip it. Yeah. Yeah, I I listen to one podcast anymore and even that one for the
past maybe six months it's usually days old by the time I listen to it. It's the you know,
20s a week and I'm usually a show behind on that one even. It just I just don't have time
anymore or I don't know why I like podcasts I like listening to podcasts I love HPR I always
did I always have and I just don't have time for podcasts like I used to. Yeah and I think I
would kind of somewhere in between. I don't have time and that's that's that's a big part of it
and I just have found recently that a lot of the shows just aren't about anything I want to hear
anything about a lot of them are about AI and I just hear too much about that should it work
I don't want to hear anymore about it or they're just strange like and it's not that they're
bad episodes are just not for me. I feel like as as we get to this point where the Q is always like
you know Ken you know praise be him um he is always asking for people to make more shows because
the Q is always like empty and I think that that is causing us to make not as good shows as we used
to like this this desire to be every day of the week is just making us we're just putting out
things that aren't as good that's my opinion. Well show quality always very wildly because it was
not really a thing we ever queued keyed on the important thing was to do it whether or not you
did it well. And I mean look I have no business saying anything about show quality because have
you seen the shit show that you're listening to right now like I have never been to speak.
No no one has no one has seen the shit well there have been a few people who have seen the
shit show. Most of them hear the shit show they're listening. Now I this is this is an opinion that
goes way way back. I never agreed wholeheartedly with the just recorded who cares about the quality
just get it down so we get a show that I never agreed with with that. I always to me HPR when I was
involved with it a lot when it was like a big part of my life there was a very active community
and there was like not quite competition but there was a bar that just the existence of shows
and the quality of them made me want to make good shows and it seemed like people coming in
would do the same thing and I understand that we wanted as low a barrier to entry as possible
but I think it was pretty damn low to begin with. I pulled my microphone out of a dumpster and I
plugged it into my my Linux computer that I pulled out of a dumpster and I used audacity that you
know I downloaded for free running on Linux that was for free and I everybody always told me that
my show sounded good so it's far and I am a computer ludite I am so but you guys know how bad
I am I like computers I like Linux I like playing with them but as far as like programming and
getting shit done I can't even type so I always thought that the barrier to entry was low enough and
it was and working to lower it even more I always thought was kind of a mistake. I just love that
I have been the joke sometimes but can he'll like mentioned something about audio quality not
mattering and then it'll be like unless it's touch it's because he knows what you can do
and I'm like yeah okay and I mean like to be fair there have been episodes and this isn't just a
recent thing this is the entire time HVR is existing there are shows that I turn on I listen to 30
seconds of and I'm like nope can't I cannot deal with five minutes of the sound quality like it's
that bad and I get it like I understand why they they deemphasize that but it is it is a problem
I also think you were talking about like and I think though there's been a response to this
already and somebody brought up that like I think they're technically incorrect but they're
kind of correct is that you know HVR kind of has been rooted in sort of like the Linux community
and like open source and there's this like thing where back in the day like I'd have to
recompile my kernel kernel to get my Wi-Fi to work you know and you'd have to figure out how to do
that so there was something to write a joke about we want Linux just works most of the time and less
it's waitling but other than that I also have a story to tell about it not just working but also
me fixing it and I think that that that's the kind of content that drew me in was like talking about
those things and that's just not a thing that happens as much anymore so there's less to talk about
like it's it's harder to come up with a show that's interesting at least to me like I'm like I don't
really have anything to talk about and there's some things but a lot of it just seems like oh I've
I've already heard a lot of the stuff that people are talking about so I there's not a solution
there it's just you know I think that there is just less to talk about in general oh no there's
a solution there what you're essentially saying is if we break Linux then HPR gets better so what we
need is zombie Steve Jobs and zombie Bill Gates no under no circumstances should the stuff happen
I don't know that's pretty hard to break Linux well that's true but there's not
is I have a I think I have a fundamentally different perspective on technology than you guys
simply because a technology is my profession in addition to being my hobby from that perspective
that there's no fewer interesting things to do now I I agree but I think for most people who are
hobbyists that just like use a Linux computer at home most of that is solved I mean at least not
the way it used to okay okay the make my personal computer work better is largely a solved problem
minus my one little story but they're now much fewer and further between I'll agree with that yeah
I mean like when the whole community shifted over to talking about containers and dockers and
all that's it that none of that means anything to me and I can't I can't imagine a use case
for that for me yeah and there is sort of like an intrusion of I won't say intrusion but it's
like a lot of the people are tech people so it's like enterprise level stuff and it's like I have
no use for this and I mean that's a me thing it's not that HPR thing but it's like that's why I
don't listen to some episodes so I mean and that's that's just one thing and one guy what what
isn't my I can listen to somebody talk about using an Arduino to like flip a switch for two hours
and I'd be perfectly content but yeah it's some topics just not my thing and see that's funny
because you talking to listen to somebody talk about an Arduino for two hours I'd get 15 or 20
minutes in and then be done but I could listen to somebody talk about like I don't know sourdough
or yeah right yeah the things that are of interest to hackers that aren't technology and I think
it's been an increase of that I mean I think that people almost it's it's it's kind of a meme at
this point like when people mention like an HPR that's not technical everybody says Clotty's urban
camping I don't know why that's the thing that everybody like loms onto but that's like the example
of something that like that's not technical but it's still cool like and everybody was into it
well and that's why the tagline makes so much sense is because it's what's of interest to hackers
it's a mentality not a specific application and maybe that's what it is it's less I feel like
there's less hacking and more just like here's a thing that works at one sorry you kind of got my
brain on a tangent here for a second but I want to give you a perfect example of a thing that's
of interest to me like I love watching videos of people like optimizing their camping gear I can't
think it's not a thing that but like somebody taking oh I took my matches and then I soaked them
in wax with their waterproof and so they're a better fire starter I think that's fucking cool
I'm not gonna go on like a three day back I can camping thing that I would need this ever dude
I was gonna show you some shit but that's what I mean is that's super interesting to me even though
I have absolutely no desire to actually do it because I still think it's cool it's the same mindset
as what I do in a completely different application and I think that's awesome yeah I allow I love
you your my brother but like I cannot imagine taking you on a camping trip I can't want to though
for you guys I would try it I would take you I would probably be miserable I don't know I would
take in a camping trip but I did have to be in a hammock because I couldn't put a friend in a tent
on purpose so the only other thing that like the only other reason that I that I pulled back
and this this is very conscious it's not like an unconscious thing is for a little bit there was
a lot of stuff that was being said on HPR that like I can't cosine like I can't attach my name to
that and I know that it's like things happen and but you know if somebody finds out that that's
me and that I'm on the same podcast as somebody saying this other stuff uh that that's that's
gonna be a problem there's been a little of that but I I saw more of that in the free software
community as a whole than there was on HPR specifically but it it definitely did contribute now
that you mentioned it yes it contributed quite heavily actually and I mean the good thing is
is like whenever that happened the community kind of jumped on it and was like I mean for the most
part there was there's some people who would defend some things that were questionable but for
the most part like it's it's a self-policing organism and that's fine right and I like the fact
that it's but it felt gross for a little bit like for me personally I was just like I don't know
if that's a place I want to be right now um and so I quit like doing anything on the mailing list
not that it had a lot before but like I'm in the matrix room all the time I barely say anything
anybody how you barely respond to me when I message you yeah I know Jesus Christ I am so bad at
it and be I'm so swamped by work right now that like I don't like like my dad texted me and it was
like three days later before I responded because I was just like I just got out from underneath the
mountain of messages that happens to eat all the time I've had people like my my good friend who
I like talk to all the time he actually he called me he called me on the phone to make sure I was
still alive because I hadn't responded as emails yes and part of that was because just so busy I
didn't have time to to type a response but also my my emails stopped coming through for some reason
on my phone frankly half the time I would call that a feature now you just get further behind
that way but I think I have suspect that Gmail sees that as a feature and that after I swiped
a few of them away to get back to them later that it just started swiping everything on its own
so the only other thing about this that I think is in right because like we haven't talked
about the show that that was made at all like I was just I was just going to say that's been a lot
of really good context but how will we get to the point because I think the point is also interesting
well I think that that's when he brought that up it brought two things to mind it's like okay the
people who are already here how how do we retain them and get them involved and get them to do
you know something that is interesting to everybody the other one is what I think nightwise is more
concerned about is recruiting new people and like being where those people are and I he 100% like
gets it that it's all about community I don't agree with any of the suggestions you
I don't know how to because to me I think he's thinking of people in like that college age which
is the people I work with like those are the kids I talk to all the time if I had to think back to
when I was that age I was a niche inside a niche inside a niche right like maybe a percent of a
percent is somebody who would be interested in the things that hacker public radio talks about
that hasn't changed I bet it's the same exact percentage we're still going to get like a little
bitty tiny piece and I think those people are going to find out no matter what it's kind of my
same rant is like Linux is a mythical new user right like why are we worried about a new user like
just make it work but I have a thought and I need to roll it around a second that's how I feel about
this whole topic it I don't just just because just because it's a small percentage of people and
they'll probably find this anyway does that mean we shouldn't make ourselves easier to find I didn't
hear that which part I said that's not what I heard Taj say at all okay because what I thought I
heard was okay we're already such a small percentage why should we do this to try and go find
the people who want to find us that's that's how I processed what what he said yeah and I agree
to understand and I disagree to a certain extent I think that that's part of the problem I think like
his big suggestion on this front is we need to be on discord which I cannot oh god no
hate that suggestion more not only just because I vehemently dislike discord and have had to
use it and just don't don't enjoy it at all that's not where kids are like don't know what he
thinks like that's where gamers are or it's kids hiding from their parents because their parents
don't know how to get on it like it's not a technical place or maybe it is in spaces that I don't
know about but I was going to say hard disagree on that okay well maybe that maybe that's just my
like I mean I mean fucking Fedora maintains their own discord that's crazy they're doing exactly
what he suggested they're trying to be where people are so that people can find them it doesn't
work for them though I mean the Fedora discord while I was on it was full of people having
typical Fedora conversations and then I realized I had a matrix room and I went there instead hey
like most of the discord I'm part of are gaming and so centric but you know who else has a
discord like my local gaming store yeah but it's like so it is becoming more than just gamers that
is absolutely their central design philosophy but that's not because it's so easy to set up a
discord because it requires nothing other than I want a new one right but that's why it's so
easy to do that's why people are there and if people are already there and you can be there too
you make it easy for people to get to you so gaming gamers and Fedora well I mean like I a
discord I was in was all about Chinese sorts like I mean they're they're niche communities
there too I just I do not want it to turn into that you brought up Gmail that's the perfect example
uh the Facebook application of everything that like oh we have this place and it's easy so we're
not going to bother to do anything else like how many fucking restaurants can I not find anything
out about because they don't have a website the only place they exist is on Facebook and I don't
have a Facebook and I can't look them up because I'm not gonna sign for that fucking account right it's
like I don't want us to move to discord and then that be the only place that happens because only
people are showing up there right it's the opposite problem and then what you do is you don't create
a new community you're bifurcating the community you've got two community one that use the old tech
and one that uses the new tech so when I heard that my first hope was sorry Pokey we both start at
the same time I have a thought I don't want to lose it and then I want to hear what you have to say
bridges that's one of the things I've seen a lot of smaller projects do for example um
it's one of the vim distributions I was using they bridged all their shit together so they had an
IRC room they had a matrix room they had a gitter whatever the fuck that is I don't even know
that a discord and all of it was glued together through a matrix bridge so that all the conversations
appeared everywhere no matter where the participants were and that's what I would love to see
I just don't know how to fucking make that work or I would already suggest it well and then
I mean if you're but then you're creating kind of the same issues somebody has to settle the stuff
up right if if discord is easy because you just sign up for a thing and it's done um
it it setting up matrix bridges you know from first hand and I know from hearing you bitch about
it is not the easy thing to do it is it is it is a pain in the ass right um so I don't know that
that I mean could HPR but yeah but you can't tell me there's not a at least one HPR listener who
doesn't hasn't figured out how to do it oh there's multiple guaranteed it's just who's gonna
maintain that and I mean if I'm gonna say that yeah it's gonna say you need a maintainer though
it's see now my thought on it discord so we've I've brought a discord on this show before I don't
know if you guys remember but I have always hated discord um I the the program itself the the
UI discussed to me it's it's just it's awful um my gut reaction to hey there's a popular thing
that's where we should be putting our community um and this is this is really nerdy as
about as nerdy as I forget um I think that becomes your Byzantium that becomes your your
Eastern Roman Church and so now you know they're your whole society has migrated so far away
that they're the new society Byzantium was Rome for a long time before it became Byzantium and I
think that's what would happen I don't think it would bifurcate the commute well it would um but
that bifurcation would become a fork and if you're talking about merging with the more popular thing
to create a fork the more popular thing is going to win I mean that's where the people are
you're you're giving up what you've got and I think there's a certain amount of the community and
I don't think it's a big amount of the community I think I'm probably the vast minority um and I
mean I know I know where night wise stands on this like his whole stick is like I'm cross platform
right uh if it ain't open source I don't want to fucking use it right and if the community decides
that that's what we're doing we're gonna use this proprietary thing that I I don't feel welcome
in that community anymore so I think the bridging thing helps solve that a little bit um but
if you're really a stickler on it that that that could also be an issue like I don't know it just
it feels icky and I don't like it yeah I agree with that the thing that the thing that I keep
inferring from what you're saying is it it feels like you are hearing them say we want to move to
and that's not what I got what I got is we want to also be on and so even if it creates two or three
separate pockets of HPR communities isn't that better than one that's shrinking even if the
two or three HPR communities are largely disconnected isn't that still better than having one
that is losing people because it's just not interesting anymore well if three were maintained two
or three and they stayed that way sure yeah but that's not the way I've seen things happen I don't
know that you know I don't I don't I can't see the future can't predict the future so I don't
know if it happens that way and I know I guess what what I'm seeing is like the folks like Tosh are
stubborn they're gonna stay on matrix because that's where they want to be yes I don't even if
HPR had a discord that showed up now the people who want to be in matrix are gonna stay in matrix
doesn't matter what else shows up because that's where they're comfortable yeah I guess I
don't see a problem with also having another place to pull in people who are already there because
you get what we've all well maybe we haven't all said but you get oh geez this has just become
the discord public radio network and I'm not interested in that and you you quit the the
community it's it's not it's not it's a community it has been the community now let me let me
I should have started out saying this my disclaimer here I got no saying HPR whatsoever I haven't
contributed in so long I I have forfeited my vote and no one should take my opinion seriously
on this topic they won't it's fine you it's just I I don't understand why
I get the impetus to want to do it and to want to be in a place I don't think it's worth the
effort I think ultimately that's what it comes down to and the kind of people who want to be in the
community and they'll only join the community if there's a discord I'm kind of like fuck them
like if you can't sign up a matrix account or you can't get on IRC I'm not sure you're gonna fit
around fit around here anyways I mean maybe that's maybe a grognard but I don't think that's the
problem they're trying to solve I think it's a discovery ability problem I think they're trying
to put cast a wider net and be in more places for people to find them it's not it's not IRC is too
hard it's not matrix is too hard it's how do we find the people who don't know that they want us
okay so how does having a discord fix that that's yeah okay hold on but that's a solved problem
because we already solved it once again it takes maintainers you don't do that by going to
another community who interfaces through text HPR is a podcast it's an audio format you fix that
by cross pollinating by going on other people's shows and talking about HPR by inviting other
shows onto your show to help talk about what you're doing that's how you fix that we did a lot
of that back in the day and it got real healthy for a while because of it I think because of it
maybe not maybe it got popular it was a fluke that the two things happened at the same time
but I I don't believe that I believe that going out doing other shows talking about other shows
and fighting other people on HPR and cross pollinating I believe that's what happened and that's
what caused the community to be as strong as it was for as long as it was I also think that
the podcast community for whatever that means is fundamentally different than it was 10 years ago
that was going to be my point the podcast community now is more like the discord community right
it's it's a lot of corporate stuff it's a lot of like oh we've got ads we've got all this stuff
it's not the scrappy we threw this together with some duct tape and bailing wire and that's
what it's attractive to me I don't want to be part of that new stuff and maybe that's just me
like I've finally done it I've aged out of HPR it's not it's not that for me anymore because
it's like think about how many Linux podcasts there are left they're none that I listen to I
was going to say I don't listen to any yeah because I'm the I mean I can just I can debate both
of these points ties but you can't keep making more points because I'll forget
slow down with your good points and let bokeh debate you yeah so as far as that's what
podcasting is now yes but there's also 200 million people listening to podcasts now
verse the 200,000 that there was 10 years ago the same 200,000 are still interested in
the same nerdy shit that we were always talking about and the same number of people could
maintain the same kind of small community that we always were we don't we've always said
not that like we agreed upon this and shook hands but each one of us in our own way has always
boy every community is great until people show up so it fucked that who needs that
that's that's the first thing so pokey pokey are you saying that our community is so great
because there's like nobody shows up yes it's just the three of us and some people who email us
from time to time yes absolutely pokey are you forgetting about the matter most again yeah
yeah he thought that was matrix I'm not going to deny that I thought maybe you guys had like
migrated but it's like there it's again this is sort of the similar thing that I was bringing up
the types of things that interest me and I think interest a lot of people in sort of the
HPR world there are less of them or less people talking about them or it's moved into like a
different space you know where it's gone YouTube yes and I was going to mention it earlier because
I was going to say I must confess though I don't have a lot of time for podcasts anymore I do
seem to have plenty of time for YouTube yeah and it's a lot of that like hacker maker maker stuff is
like super popular on YouTube like there is an audience touch I know you told me to get the
subscription and now I can just listen to YouTube with the screen off it's awesome isn't it
sit see you're listening to the YouTube podcast basically that's another thing that pisses me
off is how many people say they have a podcast but it's really just a YouTube thing and I'm like
that's not a podcast it's not a podcast no we've defined those rules that's not a podcast and pot and
YouTube is a fucking terrible pod catcher you you have to make your playlist every single day you
can't just say okay play the shows that I subscribe to in this preferential order it is the worst
pod catcher there is even if it was even if YouTube was podcasts which it's not I mean
but okay so like we're going down this pathway right you're talking about like YouTube is more
popular what I think no no I didn't say YouTube is more popular I think that stands on its own what
I said is the kind of people who like to make tutorials and hacker stuff and maker stuff tend to put
their content there and tend to look for their content there okay so this is just me spitball
and I just came up with this 30 seconds ago what if it wasn't hacker public radio what if it was
hacker public TV and it was a YouTube channel do you think it would bring more people in do you
think it would be more popular today I yeah probably but I don't know how you would manage that
yeah I don't either I think you would take your barrier to entry from the phone in my pocket
will badly record a show too well I guess I guess the phone in your pocket would also badly
record a video for YouTube actually it will do a better job uh yeah it's kind of say it does a
better job than you just trying to do audio most of the time it the the I've been very concerned for
quite a long time um about the sort of common carrier status of HPR that's another thing that has
sort of kept me away from it I me too I'm terrified of somebody showing up there some bad actor some
agent provocateur showing up and doing or saying a thing that would cause me and people I care about
to be guilty by association that has actually the these to call it the chilling effect that has
terrified me um since the the advent of cancel culture yeah I and I mean my that's kind of related
to what I was talking about earlier when people say crazy shit on there and then it's like oh I
don't really want to associate with that um it's sort of the same idea right um I am tending just
in my life uh in public spaces in online spaces if you don't have moderation of some sort I really
don't want to be there right if you don't have like a code of conduct I don't want to participate
uh because I want everybody to know the rules and the ground rules to be established I know
that's unpopular with some people but I me yeah I know but uh okay I frankly like in the real world
um I don't feel comfortable like a part of that is just my neurodivergence like I want to know
what the guard rails are hey Todd hey Todd that's his word a bunch of fucking weird days and the world
not built for us exactly I need I need somebody to spell out the list of what I can do what I can't do
I I agree sorry Pokey but I agree with Taj I would rather the rules are written up front and
everyone knows what they are and chooses to participate according to them or not yeah I know
but you guys know I'm chaotic good yes but you're not all chaotic or chaotic good I understand that
I'm not disputing that at all most of the people on HP are who I associated with
and and does some degrees still associate with are chaotic good and I do not want to see anything bad
happen to any of those people yeah so I mean it's I'm saying the same thing like that you you
had said about this like it's just that there are it's too easy for something to go wrong
and it's the guilt by association thing that I think is is maybe the best way of saying it yeah
the only other thing that night wise said that I just I chuckle that because I can't
he said we need to change the theme song his his you know I mean like we just went through this like
what two or three years ago and I think we changed the theme song and I'm finally because I don't
care what the theme song is but like we changed it because somebody wanted to fall asleep okay whatever
I have no opinion one way or the other I just want to know I still I still think what we need is
Jezra's horribly off kids terribly recorded what that has to be the theme song I'm just like
when he said that I part of me like left because I'm like has anybody turned off a podcast because
of the theme song like is that a thing that happens like I listen to a podcast and I'm like
this music sucks this isn't cool enough for me unless it's a music podcast no that's fair okay
that's a point I didn't think about but yeah I'm just like you we could decide like the community
like maybe maybe I should just do this as a troll maybe I can wait we have to release this after I
do it just go on the mailing list and just suggest that we just get rid of the theme song altogether
there'd be nothing song see how many people would take that side I hate it do it see this is chaotic
neutral pokey yeah I know it makes me a little uncomfortable I think that's the point but it's
like I like the fact that night wise is like bringing this stuff up and it's making me think about
a lot of things that aren't related to what he said but it's just like okay I love HPR right as
much it like I feel like I shit talked a lot tonight about HPR I still love it I still love
can I love everybody that works on it right yeah so great I don't want it to go away I don't
but we wouldn't have spent the last hour talking about it if we didn't love it exactly
and there's not a space to talk about it other than making a show and that is maybe the most
inefficient way of dealing with this where I would which to be fair is a point night wise made
right and I mean that that is sort of if if you're gonna say that there is a point of like a
discord it actually this conversation would go better on on a discord than like well it would
be the same in matrix but if an IRC it would be kind of a hot mess but it's like that's the reason
I wanted to do it here and talk it out here is because I've got you guys and we can talk about it
and like go off the rails like we do and and figure these things out now I may make a response
thing I'm not going to commit to it because I already owe Ken a show but hey Taj you can just clip
out the last hour of discussion and said that but then we don't have a show because we're not
allowed to post our show on the feed just cut it out of this and don't don't put it on our show
it's been like an hour of our show I mean our our show is by essay no it's they don't it's the
syndication rules well that's what I'm saying take just this chunk of our show and use it as the
response record yourself saying record yourself saying a little preamble here's a conversation that
we had on you random specifically relevant to you hpr and drop it in see I feel like that's
violating the syndication rules maybe we're not syndicating we're not syndicating the whole show
that's true it's not violating either you're not violating the license on either side and you're
creating a new show this is why I need to put a condom excerpting 90 minutes of hits you're not
syndicating it fair enough see Taj under under typical copyright statute that would be what we
would call it derivative work okay I should just clip out the last like five minutes of this
conversation and literally just send the audio file to can and be like we need a judgment
well if that happens I want my disclaimer in there that I have not participated I have no say
in this and I do not want my vote counted because I'm not entitled to one any longer yeah no I'm
pretty sure Ken would disagree with you yes he would yes I know he would that's why I'm saying
it out loud explicitly I will I will make sure that that is included if that is a thing we we
uh if we if we do that I will make sure that that's included should we maybe switch to a new topic
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