hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr1916.txt

Episode: 1916
Title: HPR1916: HPR Community News for November 2015
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1916/hpr1916.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 11:12:22

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This is HBR Episode 1916 entitled HBR Community News for November 2015 and is part of the series
HBR Community News. It is hosted by HBR volunteers and is about 114 minutes long. The summary is
HBR Community News for November 2015.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by AnanasThost.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15. That's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at AnanasThost.com.
Hello everybody. My name is Tan Falon and you're listening to HBR1916.
HBR Community News for November 2015. Joining me tonight is...
Hi everybody, it's Dave Morris. Dave, the man Morris. How are you doing, Dave?
Pretty well, it's cold and stormy in Edinburgh here, but I'm inside. Heating's on, I'm good.
Excellent, I've got a nice cup of tea. So shall we do this thing? Do you want to introduce
a new horse? Yes. Varusments of muleing people's names.
Okidok. We have two new hosts this month and they are Eric Duhamel and only half the time.
And welcome and thank you very much for joining us here on Hacker Public Radio. Long
May your contributions keep coming. Anyways, as we always do, let's give you a little explanation
about what HPR is. It's a podcast network. It's basically a feed where a show comes out
every day, Monday through Friday. And it's been running for over 10 years now.
And the funny thing is, the people who contribute the shows are random listeners like yourself.
You might see people like myself or Dave or Enigma or Klaatu or all the rest.
Come and go from time to time, but basically it's a community effort and there's nothing more to
it than that. And if you want to know what we talk about, it's anything of interest to hackers.
Anything at all of interest to hackers. And we mean by hackers, we mean all definitions of the word.
So, if you would like to record a show, we have quite a lot of listeners. We've
liked a lot of people who have subscribed. We've got quite a lot of people who download and listen.
And we would like to increase the number of people who contribute shows. It makes it a lot easier
for everybody else. If you're considering doing your first show, if you listen to a lot of podcasts,
then no harm to get involved. It's really easy to do. More than likely, the advice you're listening
to this show on has the ability to also record audio. So just what you do after listening to the show
or right now is positive. Press record on that. Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your
technical background, where you are in the world. And basically go to the website and upload the show,
go to contribute and there press the upload button. And then we'll do the rest.
Is that pretty much it, Dave? I think that's pretty much it. Yeah, we could go into a lot more detail,
but that's not the time, I think. No, and we do this show here once a month. Anybody can join.
It's an awkward time for everybody except Dave and I. So just really why we are
on it mostly, but basically anybody can do it. And we can switch to the time as well if it's more
suitable for other people. And basically it's just an opportunity to go through the shows that
were on last month and read out some of the comments and the feedback on it because a lot of the
times you don't hear a lot of feedback about your show. So this way, you guaranteed to know that
a few people have listened to it and what the general reactions to your show was. And then we also
give you a rundown of stuff that's on the mailing list. If you're not on the mailing list,
you should join it. It's fairly low traffic. And there is where if there's anything to be discussed,
such as policies, not that it's pretty much a free for all, but if there is anything to be discussed,
it gets discussed over there on the mailing list. And that's about it. Shall we start, Dave?
Let's do that thing. Okay, well, the first one was an 1819 community news for
October 2015. And following that was leave office and press. And this was tables. This is a
hookers continuing series on leave office. Hang on, can you look at the right list?
Probably not, Dave. According to me, the month started with 1891,
which was the community news. Is that not right? That's correct. And then I opened that. And then
I started clicking on the links in that episode. That's because as everybody who will be listening
to the show, I am an idiot. Well, well, I'm not making any comments because I'm going to do
something stupid tonight as well, probably. So all right. Yes, 1892, my chicken coop. And you
realize we're only one show away from chicken cubs being a series on HBO. That tells you
what's interesting to hackers. Yes, yes, if it's three shows, it's a series, folks.
I haven't appreciated that. And realize there are any other chicken related to shows on.
Yes, there are. Yeah, you have to go back. I nearly, I just had very hard day work, right? And
I come down downstairs, I'm away home to the bus. And this was the exact episode I needed
to drag me out of the dog drums. It has everything that you want in a HBO episode. It's awesome.
Thank you very much, Jezero. It was a beautiful episode. I know it and very well described with
interesting bird noises in the background. So it was very impressive. How you got that recorder
set up to play them back at the right time. I don't know. I could have been real, of course.
That was a very feeble joke. Yeah, fantastic. Fantastic. I'd love to see more pictures of this
wonderful thing. Now my plan is to find out where Jezero lives, go take a flight to the US,
get one of those megaphones, stand outside in the middle of the night and go door open,
door open in Jezero's voice. That's just mean. Oh, yeah, excellent. So for the comments about,
I imagine there were, yep, there were comments. So we had John Culp, some foul commentary,
brooch, genius foulers, F-O-W-L. Geniuses always love the comments from your foul words.
As in prison, as in prison is no day. Yes, yes.
Are you doing the next one? I'm just sorry. You're just going to sit there with the whole
evening drink in your spot. It's just this push to talk thing. You know, I said,
Oh, talk before push is the problem. Anyway, Colonel Sanders, I thought it was quite a nice
Colonel, as in K, K-R-N-E-L from Mike Ray. Great episode. Great episode, he says,
what happens if not all the chickens are inside when the door shuts or worse,
the door shuts while a chook is standing on the threshold. Maybe a keypad on the outside of
the door, which they could pack for entry. I was actually thinking about this. How did he get
the chickens inside to which Jesu replies? If it's dark outside, yes, light inside, all the
birdies will be in the coop. Any bird that isn't in the coop when the door closes will be outside
for the night and may end up being for a meal for a racoon, skunk, fox, coyote or other predator.
If a bird is standing in the doorway when the door slides closed, there will be a door closer.
I will receive a text message as well as an email. The 12-volt car and tennis and powerful
on the north to crush anything that's in the doorway. Oh, dude, just visions of a half eaten chicken.
Okay, no, no, I won't share that with you. Decapitate, oh no, no, perhaps not.
No, that's pretty amazing though. It's pretty amazing. My dad did this when we were kids,
had we had chickens, but what he did was he built an enclosed run with the chicken coop at the end
of it. So the chickens didn't get out, you know, they were, and then just moved the run around the
garden to clear, you cleared all the weeds from the garden that way. That was what he did. But
Jess was being much more advanced with his setup. I brought this to the attention of my brother
and I'll know who knows chickens. Actually, I don't know. He has nothing around to protect the
chickens at night. I'm surprised they haven't been attacked or eaten or whatever, but I do.
The following day was my last pass alternative, and it was by two Jess and part of the
Privacy and Security series. And he uses a key pass for his database or his client. And he
syncs up between devices, on cloud, et cetera, et cetera. He uses three plugins for Firefox,
Chrome, and Android. And then when he's on a machine that he doesn't control, it's remote,
access, browser pass. The only thing about this was I was a bit concerned about that last one
if you're accessing this over the network, that is a bit of a security risk I would have thought.
Yeah, I'd be nervous of that. Do you know, I didn't know anything about these I use key pass X,
because I don't think key pass was available for Linux back in the day. I used to use key pass
on Windows when I had to use Windows quite some number of years ago. Then I wanted it on Linux,
and it wasn't available. And there was a spin-off for fork of it, I think. Was it key pass X?
So I didn't know that it moved to this, and you could use it from within browsers,
though, it was very useful to find that out. It's pretty cool. My wife uses key pass X as well.
I was going to use it, but I already have a system set up with SSH, and yeah, I just SSH to
my internal machine, and then I run some scripts to generate passwords and save them and stuff,
so it's a... Yeah, it's on my list to move to something else, but on the other hand,
my system has been working quite well for a while, so... All right, sounds fair enough.
They didn't broken, don't fix it. And the following day was an episode I did with David Zelli
and Dr. Oh, God. David, can you help me with the names? Sorry. David Zelli and Dr. Marianne Sinker.
Hamburg project. Thank you very much. And yeah, basically the biggest killer in the world is
by Far Mosquitoes. So this was an idea. I had put a blog post up to... I'd seen you quite a lot
of stuff about Mosquitoes killing people and a blog post up and somebody put in the comments
and popped me in touch with these people, and they were gracious enough to do an interview.
I really enjoyed doing this interview. I don't know if anyone else did.
Well, I thought it was wonderful. I wanted to quibble about Mosquitoes being the killers,
because they're not the vectors of the killers, but then that's just me being OCD and having to be
precise. Yeah, just the Birmingham, it's a Gondon killer, it's the bullets, you know.
But yeah, no, it's fantastic project that they're doing, as extremely impressed with the work
that they're doing. I would not have thought to approach it in that sort of way, you know, because
they're trying to work out where the damn things are on mass. So they can then take action to an
area rather than, you know, knowing there's one in the room, which is what your interest was originally,
wasn't it? Yeah, I'm interested in knowing if it's in the room pretty much.
Yeah, though that would have benefits as well. You were saying that you and your family
have allergies to these things. Well, when I was in the Far East, I've been there for a number of
times. There are certain mosquitos that bite me, and I get sort of great swelling about the size
of a saucer. So on the back of my hand once, I couldn't use my hand for nearly a week, because
it wouldn't tense because the swelling on it, you know. Wow. So I feel your pain.
I got blisters and all sorts of stuff. Very annoying stuff. But yeah, it's not a simple issue to solve.
So I'm really glad they've done this. I'm trying to line up another interview with the guy who's
met the hardware for that, but the timing is from working out, so hopefully it'll be coming.
Anyway, Steve Bickel, commented saying it was a good episode. One of his favorite
HBR episodes. Excellent. Amazing project, fantastic interview, fantastic content, just on the set.
Thanks for the interviews. Okay, cool. Thank you very much, Steve. And then some geyser called Dave
Morris said, great interview, great project. This was a fascinating episode. Thanks. I wasn't
aware that Mosquitoes were particularly prevalent in the Netherlands. I sympathized with the
allergy issue. I wasn't aware I wouldn't be here. No, no, no, absolutely. And I said what I just said
to you, I'm also allergic to bites, but not to UK species yet. And there aren't many in Scotland,
probably yet, though as it gets warmer, who knows. And I was also unaware that there are Mosquito
species in the UK, which are potential disease vectors. I did not know that. So just waiting for
somebody to come in with malaria, and for these things to start to move in it about.
There were, sorry, I saw in our program is that a lot of tire, you know, car tire recycling
plants, where they bring in car tires to countries has been called a big factor. So they will buy,
you know, old used car tires to recycle them. And inside in the car tires, there's water.
And in there, the breeding, the mosquitoes are breeding during the entire passage. And then
they were brought to recycling plants in Europe. And around the recycling plants, malaria has
started coming. Would you believe it? Push to talk to. There's, thank you. There's plenty of
other diseases as well as malaria. I've changed my push to talk key and I keep losing the damn thing.
Sorry about that. So yeah, there's all, there's a great list of horrible diseases, quite a
number of them fatal too, that associated with that. Anyway, getting back to my comment, there's
an urgent need for new action against Mosquito-born diseases. And I said I was listening to a podcast
about the worrying growth of Mosquito resistance to bednets treated with pyrethroid insecticides
just the other day. So, you know, gradually, although bednets have done a lot of good work, it's
not, it's being evolved away from evolution is inactivating it. So yeah, anyway, I'll stop there.
Okay, let's move on to the following day. We had a liberal office in press,
oily objects, spreadsheets and charts. And the more I, and this is nothing critical against
this series, but I've had to do some work with my, my children have to give presentations in school,
to practice that sort of stuff on now to have these objects. And I've had a very frustrating
time working with a liberal office, thankfully. My frustration has been made a lot less as part of
this episode, but I will say OLE is the absolute as a network administrator for five years. It is
the absolute bane of administrators' lives because somebody will email you a, a document that will
have links to four other documents. The four other documents are stuck in somebody's hard disk
somewhere and nothing works because of the object linking. It is absolutely the worst idea that
anyone could ever have come up with with their access. I tend to agree. I, I've used it long,
long ago in the past with Microsoft stuff, but not, not, not very much. My daughter's currently doing,
was just doing a presentation at university and the way that she and her group dealt with it was not
by, you know, OLEying stuff around. They just used a, a Google doc, I think, and then shared it
between them. Yeah, that's one option. Yeah, yeah. So I think the whole liberal office, and forgive me,
as I go on a rant here, but I think the whole liberal office, and this is largely because I got so frustrated
with this documentation that I was doing. And as a side note, I'm using that rewrite markdown thing
that you and John are retext markdown editor for a lot of my work now as an attempt to see is
markdown the future in a manner that you and John seem to seem to think that it is. So like we've
gone from two extremes, one of heavily linking objects to being very, very, very plain text formats.
But anyway, my thoughts on liberal office and Microsoft office. I think that, that's a technology
whose day is done. It comes from an era where people had one computer and that computer was their
desktop computer. And that was it. So everything was located locally on that. And the whole thinking
behind that is located locally on that. And the whole paradigm breaks when you go to a network
environment. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be a long web for it goes away,
I suspect. Don't you? I mean, most, well, I don't know because I was thinking about this, right? And
you're doing a, you're doing a drawing, you have a document and then you want to do a drawing,
you want to embed the document in there. And I'm just thinking to myself, is it not better to go,
spend a week learning the screen, heatinx.org screencasters, inkscape tutorial, just spend a
week going through that. You'll know how to use inkscape at the end of it. And it produces SGV
standardized drawings that can be embedded on the website. It produces a PNG if you must or JPEG
or whatever. And then you've learned to use a tool for the job. You know, pick up the tool
for the job. That's, you know, as an engineer, the first one I was doing in apprenticeships or
quasi apprenticeships, the, the fitters would tell me, use the tool for the job. Don't use
the vice grips for everything, you know. So, you know what I mean? You know where I come from?
You're in Spanish sometimes, yeah. It's also cleaner because you do your, you do your drawing
there and you make a drawing and then you use a text document to do your text and then you use
your style sheets to apply your style sheets and you link the whole thing together and that's it.
You're on, you've learned, you've learned, called, you're, you know, each of them live independently.
Anyway, yeah, I do use Libra Office myself occasionally. The thing I use it for is, if I want to
write an official looking letter like a complaint or something, then, you know, and you've got a
template, a letter template and it's a really quick way of getting together a good looking letter.
And things, you know, the whole templating business is very useful. I'd want something that
was able to do that well other than Libra Office where I dropped it totally. No, I get, I get your
point and I am being a little bit, but I think the use case for me at least, I don't do that much
of that. When I do need to do it, yes, I'll use Libra Office. But I'm thinking, any other documents
that you do look at latex, you can instantaneously tell a document that's been written in latex,
you can always could. It looks so clean. It looks elegant. Everything is laid out perfectly.
You just know what's been done. And it's one of the things I'm a list in all day, in all the time
that I was struggling with Microsoft Word or whatever. If I had spent the time and learned to do latex
properly, all my documents would look awesome still today, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's true,
actually. Yeah, we, we did use to use latex before we had Microsoft Office at work. So yeah,
and I've written big, big documents in that in the past and you're right. It is, but boy,
was it a struggle to, yes, yes, because it's a mark, it's a markup language and it's very, very
hairy indeed. Yeah. Okay, moving on, new, new host, user local software. And first episode
started coming from new Linux September 2012. So that's getting on there and put his programs in
home directory, local and source and local and opt. What do you think that day?
It seems like a pretty good choice to me. I've never actually done that myself, but it makes a
lot of sense. I come from background where you had a workstation on your desk back in the
Unix days and you could drop things in a user local source and user local bin and stuff because
usually you had to because that's where they wanted to go if you if you run make on them and stuff.
So I just got into having to do that, but he's right that that's that's for things that are just
local to use, not necessarily a good idea. Yeah, I use bin quite a lot, home bin.
And then yeah, so do I, yeah. For my source, I have a source call directory actually.
And in there, I put all the git stuff that I have. So actually, it's a, but it's a good idea,
the local options, it seems like a good idea. Yeah, it's absolutely. No, I think it's a great,
great, great thought. It's a, it's, it's efficient and sensible. Yeah, no problem with that.
And Anthony Venable had a Swift 1 or 1 had a
program on installing Windows 7 Ultimus. Hold on, hold on. You, you missed the comment on Eric.
Oh, thanks. Thanks. Thanks.
Shall I just do it? There was a comment by himself, in fact, which he said other ideas.
Anna Kepp had another suggestion. I designed tilde.files.d to organize all my software and files
on all my demons software, personal code backups, auto backups. So tilde.files.d.
Mmm, very good. And the advantage of that is it's hidden directory.
Yeah, you're not messing up stuff. Yeah, the cool thing is, regardless of what they pick,
if it's in your home directory, your backups are going to get it. So, yeah, whatever floats you
boat, I like it. So again, installing Windows 7 Ultimus, Windows, not something that we hear
about quite a lot here, but HPR is about all stuff of interest to hackers. So, yeah, it was
interesting how you can revive a old computer with a 320 gig hard disk. The only thing about this
is I don't know how many people are doing on computer bills now and buying any time that I bought
a computer and bought it so that I could upgrade the processor and stuff ended up not doing that
because by the time I got around to upgrade in the processor, the processor that would be available
for that type motherboard was no longer available and it was really expensive to buy. So,
you'd be cheaper buying a new motherboard and processor. So, yeah, yeah, I agree. Although,
I just am in the process of setting up an old Pentium 4, would you believe for a friend who has a
Pentium 4 with Windows on and I was going to convince him that it would be better if it had
Linux Mint, I put Mate on it and it goes pretty well. It's pretty nice. So, I don't know whether
I'll convince him, but I was going to say, well, you have this and play with it, see what
you think and you know, you might prefer it. So, you know, that's not quite what you were saying,
but it is resurrecting an old machine. So, quite a feeble one too. So, there you go. Not Windows though.
Following the 1890s, I actually don't know if there were some comments on that one.
Thanks to God. One far ahead. So, Guy Watkins said, update the firmware. Sometimes a firmware
update will add features to a motherboard like newer CPU support and more RAM support.
So, see if a firmware will allow you to go to. Yeah, so, I thought it was really helpful
coming. Yeah, good enough. Regardless, it's something people forget to do, we'll go
up here in the firmware. Yeah, the other one. Yeah, sure. Am I honked? I think people are putting
in shows here like Barc Simpson does when he rings the, rings the bar. Catch us out. Anyway,
there's ideas for other people to fill in comments. Enjoy your show. Nice piece informational
bases. Nice to hear someone from my neck at the woods, more or less, grew up in the Richmond
area. Hope to hear from you again. Cool. So, the next one again, free my music. And there's one
comment on this, note to self. And it's how, half a 32, got a music office Mac onto Linux, fully
switched over. And, yep, pretty, pretty cool. Pretty, pretty unfortunate as what happens to your
music when you import it into, into other people's systems. I don't like people messing with
the naming filenames and stuff on my, my computers. No, that we used to run iTunes on the
window, the family Windows machine. And it accumulated a bit of music on there. And I remember
being intensely annoyed with the way it kept messing around with the tags and stuff made me,
made me a tag Nazi. Yes, I've noticed Dave. And there's many lines of pearl to prove that statement.
Shite, you figure, had a comment by Tor and this snow dog approve. Thanks out for 32, never bothered
to put my music in a Macbook Pro. But I got tons of archived podcasts on there. I could transfer
over to my external storage. So thanks for the tip. Good idea. Archiving podcasts is a good idea
generally. I'm regretting they deleting my podcasts after I listen to them because they tend to
disappear after a while, which is why you should go over to text files.com or archive.org and
there you'll find archives of a lot of podcasts if you're, if you can no longer find them. Yeah, good
idea. So my tiny to-do list doesn't have any comments. It's done by John the man Culp or Dr. Culp
as we should now call him. This was my tiny to-do. I never heard of this. It's like a web-based to-do
list thing requires PHP and some database connection, PHP, SQL, Light will work. Again, very
informative episodes. Loved it. Yes, absolutely. I really enjoyed this. An interesting tool,
just the sort of lightweight thing that is quite good to know about. I didn't know about this.
So yeah, I haven't actually got ran to installing it, but I might well check it out locally and see
how, if it will suit my needs. The problem is I tend to use these to-do apps for about three weeks
and then completely forget about them. I put, there's one called Simple Do for Android, which was
recommended on Tux Jam a few episodes back and I tried that out but I just gonna get on with it
at all. I'm not really keen on Android apps because I A I can't see them and B my fingers never
seem to find the buttons. So it's not for all people these things. You know, it's what it is.
You get just certain edges. You shouldn't be allowed to have Android phones and smart phones and
stuff. I have a chap and work, got me two plastic strips for either side of my monitor and I have
a little postage stamp size postage that I put on those and so on the left is stuff I need to do
right from front to the monitor stuff that I'm doing and on the other side is stuff that I need to
do lantern and then when I'm finished I posted on a square A4 calendar with one month for each thing
and then put it on the day that I've done it. It seems to work. It's funny. You should say that. I
thought John's comments about his boss doing something. Exactly. Well, I did the same. I found an old
perspex sign in the dumpster and it was quite big and it was quite a nice shade of green. I just
turned it backwards. I got the green and stuck it on the wall of my office and it was great surface
for sticking postage on. So it had loads and loads and loads of them. Sometimes stack it up.
Yep. Exactly. So yeah. Yes. The same thing I'd sometimes
four things I'm investigating and then they all turn out to be linked to this one thing. So a
daisy chain and the mod cello tape and then when that one thing's fixed I can get rid of all
them. Yeah, whatever. Whatever. I think is there to do things. People are like what sort of old
fart. Anyways, it's hacking guys. It's hacking. Whatever. Whatever works for you.
Oka 20 privacy security SSH basics stuff. Everybody needs to know and there was a comment on archive.org
actually. You put this one up on archive.org and there was a comment on this saying very
clear and concise episode. Yes, that's right. We got a notification from Mark of the
comment. It had been attached, which was a surprise to me. I didn't even know that was possible.
No, no, no, no. It's quite cool. I was going, yay! And now I've also gone, oh, now I have
somewhere else to start gathering information and putting it together. But that's cool. That is
very nice, very very good episode and it also triggered 501.50 to do an episode which is cool.
Okay. The following day there was no comments on that one other than that comment.
Installing Linux programs without the internet. And this was Swift 110. And there was
discussion. Actually, there's no comments on this, but there was just, let me just tell you what
it is. He's talking about how you can install programs if you don't have access to the internet.
And there was some discussion on the other cast, Planet Milling, the IRC channel, which
apparently there was comments on the IRC channel that I don't mention the IRC channel
in this show, the community news. So we should make sure to mention that as well, that there is
a channel. If you go to IRC.frino.net, hash.orgcast.planet is where a lot of the
oddcasts listening and contributing public hang out. Anyway, there was a comment about that,
what was the point, when would you ever use this? And there are times when you might not be away
from the internet, but you're inside a secured area that you're not allowed out to the internet.
And excellent episode for supporting that. Although, if those sorts of environments don't
particularly need super-tux card racing, but I do as an example, it's a good example.
Yeah, the principle is useful, isn't it? And the fact that Mint Marta Menu hacking was pretty
straightforward, was interesting. Yeah. So it's just playing with Mint Marta, myself. So
yeah, it's interesting to see how to do that. And that's thing, folks, if you're thinking that
there's something that other, you know, you know, and you assume that other people don't know,
are you think, well, why would I ever do that? Do you record a show? Because it will always,
it will always, somebody will always get something from it. It might not be like masses,
it might not be the most life-changing thing in the world, but it might, you know, just be the
exact thing that somebody's looking to make their life a lot easier. So, yeah, please do that.
I think there's actually about 10 or 12 things that I've heard from people, and a lot more,
that I use absolutely every day. I heard that on HPR. It was a tip. And I probably never went back
and thanked the people for it, but, you know, things I use absolutely every day, or, you know,
I've come across and went, hey, where did I get that? And find it on HPR.
Yeah, absolutely. It's up me too. I've got their number of pointers to things through HPR.
It's just that thing of other eyes finding things that you've missed yourself, you know?
It's the crowd thing, isn't it?
Yeah, it is. Yeah, and, you know, if you think, hey, nobody, this is too simple for people,
you know, record it because somebody's always coming to, it's new for somebody else. It might
be old hat for you, but it's new for somebody else. Speaking of cool series that you can do,
what's in my toolkit? And a lot of people have done, like, what's in my bag, what's in my,
what's in my actual toolbox and stuff. Boss Finn took the idea of doing the tools,
applications that he uses of a day. Excellent idea. And a lot of these things I would never,
never heard of before. Some of them are used regularly. Some of them I have used in the past,
but an excellent, excellent idea. Yeah, absolutely. I quite agree. In fact, I commented on this one,
which we'll get to a moment to that very effect. Farad. Yes, the comment was that I've,
that I've sent in was nice list. Hi, Finn, thanks for this list. There were some good items in
there that I'd never come across before. Having been wrangling Uni Code recently, I like what
Gu Charmap, strange name, GU Charmap offers. I use Oculus for PDF viewing, but events
is annotation features are interesting. It's apparently available as document viewer and XFC,
which I currently use. So plenty of things to explore. I have been using document viewer as
all because there's a strange bug that's happening on KDE now. I'm my KDE for Fedora 21.
And when I'm opening the file open dialog box, it's incredibly, incredibly slow. An
ocular has ground to a hold. It used to be super responsive and then has ground to a hold.
And I cannot get to the bottom of hot of it. But only. Yeah. KDE is going through some funny,
funny stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I've switched away from it for the time being till it stabilizes.
So I'm on XFCE just now. Seriously, like you had KDE 3 and then the blasts out of way for KDE 4
and then the KDE 5 comes along. I don't, I don't know. I would have something to say to the project
at Foster. I'm wondering should I, because I'll probably, you'll stay in a long queue. Yeah, exactly.
Anyway, Zol Zos. Zloster. Zloster. Thank you very much. Zloster said, nice list. I would like to thank
you for the list. He uses, they use a lot of these problems, don't know if it's he.
So, in addition to the list would be transmission remote GTK. If you want to manage transmission
Daemon running on a remote machine, but don't like the built-in web interface.
Interesting. Yeah, I don't know anything about that. Neither do I. Maybe Zloster could record a show
for us on that topic. Now there's an idea. See what I did there Dave. Huh? I'm impressed.
Plenty of practice. Plenty of practice. Dave, my morris for the bash tips. And as I said, I think in
the comments to this one, that didn't know that was even possible. The plus equals, which is obvious
now that you've said it, but so I went back and rewrote a lot of my scripts that just
I got more and more complex because I was doing count eagles, count plus count or count plus one
or whatever. So excellent. Yeah, the reason I'm doing these is because there's so many
strange little corners of bash that I never knew about because they've been adding them,
you know, in fairly fairly recently in the last couple of years and so on. So it's well worth
having a good good look through the man page again and having found good stuff. Well, you know,
you want to share it. Absolutely. And the date I fully approve of your date time formatting.
The only same time is ISO 8601. Thank you folks. You've heard it here.
North to every government in the world. Anyway, and you just you just replied there to my comment on that.
So let's move on. Windows command line tips and tricks from only half the time. Excellent,
excellent show, excellent handle as well. And as these all these commands brought me back to my days
as a Windows administrator in a large organization before they had the offered any tools for automation
and stuff to use a lot of these scripts. And I think a lot of people forget that
whatever you say about the Windows way of doing things on the command line, it is possible to do a
lot of automation on the Windows command line. And even guys in work who assume I'm a Linux guy
and then I automate stuff on the Windows side, you go, oh, what the hell didn't even know that was
possible. Yeah, yeah, I know I did do a little bit of dabbling in this when I was when I had
Windows around. In fact, I can remember the time trying to set up access control lists on my
home machine and then discovered that they existed and typing the commands and it said, nah,
sorry, don't know where that is. And then I realized that you had to have the pro version of
XP to have to use down command, which is that was a really frustrating thing. Yeah, it makes
it very difficult because then you you can't even if you have a site license for this and the
machine comes with whatever, which is what we used we used to have us, you know, a site license
and then we buy in the machine with the cheapest version of Windows because we didn't want to buy
it twice. And then your scripts won't work because, you know, the version doesn't have that
option built in. And then I think came back to bite, you know, Windows in the bottom really,
because you can't trust the scripting. So people don't bother learning it. So your administrators
don't bother automating stuff. So yeah, there you go. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah, most of the
stuff I did with Windows admin later on was poking stuff through the LDAP interface into
Active Directory. Active Directory, yeah, yeah, which you could do a lot with. I hadn't known that
until it was pointed out to me. You can actually create accounts and all that sort of stuff
through Active Directory through LDAP. Even though it's not properly documented, we worked
to do it. Yep, shows you had the idea that yeah, well, maybe. Okay, be easy. Thanks, great show.
Thanks for the valuable information, not a system in and it is a full-time Linux user. But sometimes
has to work on a Windows PC. It's great to get some Windows command line basics from a trusted
source as searching for such commands online leads to see CD websites keep up the great content.
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a good point actually. Yeah, yeah. Getting access to good,
reliable information is really difficult sometimes in the Windows world, I think. Less so in the
Linux world, I've found anyway. Anyway, Frank commented on as well saying, I add my thanks. So
very good. I keep thinking of there as one site that every time you're looking for a Windows problem,
it keeps coming up and you can see the question and it says the answer is answered and then you
can't get into it because DX exchange or something like that and the answer is hidden to you. You
need to pay for the support and that site really, really annoys me. Oh, yes, yes, so much so I think
I ended up putting the site into a horse file of adding local horse does the website so that I
wouldn't accidentally go to it. Can't even remember what it is now. In the equivalent of
et cetera, a host file, you mean putting it in there. Exactly. Putting it in a thing like a $7.0.0.
Just redirect that address to local host so you never get there. Cool. Just one second, I'll try
and find that expert exchange. That's the second one. Yeah, it's horrible, horrible site
expert exchange. I had did a little dance this past week. It's not a pleasant image to consider,
but anyway, I did because I blitzed the final XP of that painting before that I had hanging
around in the corner. It's great delight to think no more windows in this bloody house.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's odd like when I say, you know, and people ask, you know, oh, yeah,
what do you do, computers? Yeah, what do you think of Windows 10? Sorry, I haven't worked
with Windows computer in seven years. That's not true. I work with Windows servers, but I haven't
used a Windows desktop operating system in seven years. So I don't know. Yeah, I hope to help,
but now I honestly, with my hand and my heart to my family, I don't know, I'll help you with the,
I'll help you for switch to Linux, but yeah, I can try it, but really, I don't know. Yeah, yeah,
I quite can go with that. And here again, is is a hooker spreading all L.E. Evil among our crowd
who wants us all to use object linking object linking, but what's E again, I can't remember,
I can't remember ever. No, but I think as you know, talking this one about how you
object linking and embedding that's the one. That's the one. Is this not about how you can do it
without? Oh, no, no, he's talking. Well, let's go to his web page. Well, okay,
it's my notes must be bad because I wrote down that it was how to do it without
just using the built-in tools and impressed around. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh,
I mean, an existing thing. Yeah, probably better, given my spiel from before.
Anyway, if people find these interesting or confusing in any way, you could always
nip to his website, which has got the full Monty, along with images, every, everything that he
discusses. I don't think it's word for word, but he's inspired, you know, when he's talking,
he's inspired by the text that he's written for the, for the show. I think he posts the blog
first or writes the blog first and then records the show afterwards, which is actually a good way
of doing it. Yeah, images and examples are always fantastic. Yep. So, will you go
wasting shows again with his apt splunking two TV anytime patch and starfish? Although,
he didn't make a point, actually. I don't know if you're in a nutshell, this Dave, but I definitely
heard him saying that he was going to give 75 years of shows one after the other. Did you hear that
with the giving as well? I did hear somebody do that, I think. Yeah, yeah. So that's great.
So, that's great to find viewers. Yeah, well done.
And now my 75th show. So, looking forward to those wind gop. Anyways, TV time, I am actually
looking for that very thing right now, if you would believe it, because I've got an analog
tuner and I just want something simple to put up to a TV. Oh, cool. Yeah. I don't use TV at all,
so. No, I want to take it in from a VCR and stuff, just to be able to connect the VCR via one of
these dongles, a USB RGA connector, so you can get a SCAR cable split it out to your RCA left,
right audio and video, like the two look connectors, and then plug it into USB and just something to play
that in there. So I can quickly have a look through actual physical cassette tapes to see if the
can I archive them or if there are programs on there I've recorded years ago, just to get rid
of all the clutter in the house and if they want to keep them I'll record them then and put them
on to the NAS. So I have them for later. That's actually quite a good idea. I should be thinking
about doing something like that. I think we've got error tapes recorded on a video camera,
that format. Yeah. To have not been archived. So yeah. Yeah. Something definitely
all should be doing is and I've got some DV tapes as well that need to come out and the last time
I was looking at it I click and get it off on compressed, uncompressed because I would need
something like a turbine of hard disk space but now you know I can get a 4 turbine drive for whatever
so I can get the raw footage of all those tapes as well. So that'll be that's on my list.
You know it's it's actually something like that you're putting it off and putting it off but
actually once you have your setup done it's something you can come in and do every night you know
you have you started to go do something else you come back you switch it you do the next one
and eventually you have everything archived onto a disk and you're done. Yeah. Yeah. I should
follow you lead with that sounds a good idea. Anyway patch I think you had a comment about
patch if I'm not mistaken in this. I would call it pronounced it FATCH because you are education
and you can read stuff. Yes I said some interesting packages. I was intrigued by FATCH and
installed it to try out. It's it's in I use intriguing twice that's very bad. It's intriguing though
a bit counter intuitive for me anyway since it seems to start by assembling a tool chain which
I didn't expect. Then I had difficulty working out how to apply the chain to some images
but I shall I shall persevere. I also tried X starfish and like what it produces thanks for
pointing these out. So do you want to do an extra starfish? X starfish was it just created random
images. It seems bizarre. Yes I've not used it or looked at it but yeah. I played with it and
it sat there for quite a long time thinking about it and then it came up with the rather nice
sort of abstract pattern which which is good. I quite like this sort of thing because I like
have a still on XFC have have random backgrounds changing on my two monitors. I said
KDE episode that's you know the article that was read out a few weeks ago. I've switched my
background desktop to the NASA picture of the day something I've never done before so there
there's again something you know some you hear on HPR and you do it and you know you don't go back
and say oh sorry oh thank you for that I'm using it every day and it's really cool but that's
what this shows all about it at least for me. X starfish. Okay and when you go reply back to you
saying it's definitely not terribly intuitive it's definitely not a terribly intuitive interface.
I think it applies to all the actions you add in order to each of the images but you have to be
very explicit about assembling your chain. Maybe I'll go into more depth on how patch that
works. Okay talk. So shall I read out the next one? Of course it was me and I said
that seems to have a lot of potential. I can see a use for it myself. I like to assemble several
pictures for HPR episodes and I want to do things like strip metadata to shrink the size and make
thumbnails. I can see this might be possible but knowing how is the barrier. I looked at the
documentation but it seems to be very short of actual instructions. So I know I know
FATCH is all about do stuff to stuff. I've understood the do stuff phase a little but find the
two stuff part cryptic. If you've mastered it yourself a show about your experiences would be great.
Oh you see what he did there guys. You did it again didn't you?
Can I get a prize? That's how you become admin here. If you get people to start doing
shows the more likely you are to be taken over my job. I know what you're at Dave Morris.
Well I have had a good teacher. I'll have to say that. You're very welcome.
Can you do the next one please because I don't want to butcher these people's names?
Hold on. So this one 1907 is Klaatu who is interviewing Charlie Reisinger and from Penn Manor
School District. So Klaatu is talking to a guy who I think
see a teacher or a administrator. I don't remember. And the Penn Manor School District
giving their students Linux laptops to take home. And the amazing thing is that they're not
scared that they're going to mess them up because they're quite prepared. If they sort of do
something daft and and and prang them then they will just re-image them and everything will be
good again. I thought this was the person who thought this was one of the most refreshing things
I've had for a long time. That's in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
Because where it is? I loved this and I think it might actually be the same guy but I've heard
about this before where they were going well you know how else are you going to get to the
innards of your computer if somebody's going in and break stuff and then you fix it in a break
in, you come back again, you learn from your mistakes. If everything's locked down you know what
is this? It's you can't do anything with it. It's so so pretty cool. Pretty cool to love this.
The only thing about it was of course the latest OECD report on shows that children who don't use
computers end up being better academically as reading writing and arithmetic.
That's interesting. I'm very interested in the report actually but my own suspicions is that
you know people are distracted. Learning is boring and if you have no distractions you kind of
learn. So yeah that thing where you're you're sitting at a computer reading course material but
there's a you know chat window in the corner and stuff or all of that or there's a YouTube
thing running in the corner or running another monitor then yeah you're right. It's not going to be
not going to be good. Yep and the following day at Troops came in with a show. Hang on
hang on there was a comment comment comment comment comment. So there was a comment from John
John Cope who said excellent. So I do it since I started and he said I love this interview in
the project. Wish it had been a bit long. It's more anecdotes from the from the code face of
Penn Manor would have been great. Yeah excellent. And speaking of another teacher who's inspiring
kids with free and open source software is Troops our own groups. Host number one here in HBR.
Who put together a pumpkin and has got the Arduino sketches and photos of the board and photos
of the pumpkin and thanks to Klaatu he video just horizontally and his iPad I think and Klaatu
was able to turn around for me in KD in life and I look forward to Klaatu's episode on how he
explains how he did that because it's awesome. Very good very good. I should interject with
just a slight slight slightly unfortunate consequence of putting videos in things that the internet
archive strips them out so you can't currently upload them just just to just so people are aware
that's all. Maybe I should also put a link underneath to the YouTube link. Yeah that should be
there. Yeah we haven't talked about this but I think we should do that. And it's it's understandable
that the archive.org strips them out but if we put a link into them underneath as well can see
the video there and the video tag does support that so but only there you go that's a really cool
episode. I really wanted this. I really want to do something like this because you could do the
same with a styrofoam you know a styrofoam grave thing. Yeah head. Great storm on the grave.
A hand coming out. Something moves and you hit the hand. It would be awesome. So yes that's
on my list. My ever increasing list of stuff to do. Yes. So since I commented on this one I had
had a thing about commenting this year for some reason this this month. I just simply said love
this very cool project and I mean in envy of your students. Yes as a man. I don't tend to
comment on shows because I do save a lot for here and also I do. I don't always remember to say
the thing I wanted to say is do I take notes and stuff but even then I don't always remember.
So if it's something I really like I do try and put comments on but I don't always do
it. Don't always manage. There you go. I only tend to put comments on if it's something that I
I as a professional non-hitchcocker person have done which is why I commented on your show because
I added it to my scripts and work. So don't feel sad if I don't comment on episodes guys.
The following day we had John Culp's excellent talk on creating open embedded media music
textbook. Every time I know he's he's done several series of shows on this in the past but
it's absolutely awesome what he's done and again the video didn't go in so okay good point.
Yeah it's a bit sad we can we can work on fixing that. I'm sure it but yeah yeah we haven't had
a chance to to talk about the good strategy yet but only for for anyone I think this was a
presentation. John did two other educators I think and he's got links in the show notes to
different places and all the resources that you mentioned and a video of the talk as well
and the comments from Mike Ray, Calibra, CLI, Good Showed John,
mused musing to hear one or two questions at the end really struggling with the concept of
doing something for nothing though she might call you a communist smiley face. How about a show
talking about how you use Calibra's command line to create tools. I'm curious about how to create
EPOP books either from plain text, markdown or HTML to which John replied in the voice of Deb Morris.
John said valuing musicians. Ha ha true she wasn't crazy about the free aspect but to be fair
musicians face an ongoing struggle against people under valuing their skills whether it be someone
balking at the outrageous price for private lessons or the scandalous fee in quotes to play
the wedding. People think music is all fun and games but professional four professionals it's
hard work a highly specialised skill developed over many years. I think her questions are coming
from the perspective of someone fighting to make sure musicians skills are properly valued.
I get this. I'll definitely do a show about Calibra conversions both of the GUI and the CLI.
Thanks for the comments and be easy commented. Great episode. Thanks for sharing this presentation.
I enjoyed the entire thing and will use some of your ideas from my own projects. I especially
enjoyed your explanations of creative commons of free software in a way that was clear and
accurate but not too preachy. These concepts are so foreign to some people that is
entertaining to hear the reaction when they're not exposed to free culture. Thanks again looking
forward to your next show. And finally Frank commented but it's been a long time since I've
I have to buy one. I've had to buy one. I fully share your sentiments about the college textbook
industry. The publishers block the paths of learning. Raise their flint locks at students and
Christ stand and deliver. Amen Frank. Amen. So true. And you know what you know particularly
I find annoying and I didn't even know it existed until my wife wants to research. It does quite
a lot of research. She's qualified in the area but I want to do a lot of research on issues with
our children. And then you go to a website somebody's written a book about it. You go to a website
and you're not allowed to buy the book unless you have you know a doctorate or degree in this
speciality that you're dealing with. And why is that? Why? How do they know? What's what's
criterion? You need to be a member of the blah blah blah the the society for the
blah blah and you can only get in with those credentials. Yeah and they they have to fax
a approval to the book publisher in advance and then you can get in to get the books. I mean what
about citizens and scientists? Half of the you know it's just so irritating to think okay yes you don't
want somebody pretending to be a doctor or something but why stop people from learning and then
going to somebody and go and hey you know I found this out maybe I mean if that was the case
Einstein when he did his first three thesis he wasn't even qualified as anything he was he was
just working in a in a patent office at the time. I've never heard of that before I mean the
paywall journals and stuff have always been a been a big issue though it's it's gradually gradually
easing but that one is a new one on me that's pulling. Maybe it's just here but aha.
And we only noticed when she became you know she was qualified through whatever and then she went
to to find the books and it turns out her qualification she has masters and in communications anyway
so her because she had the masters she's allowed to get these books you know just really really
weird. That's fine. Yes. The the the comment that the micro was the the response that micro was
commenting on. I heard it as the the the person in the audience saying how is it that if you let
them have these things for free they will be prepared for the real world where very little is free
which you know I don't agree with it with but it was it seemed to me slightly different
way of of looking at it you know it's a different question than than I've heard anybody pose before
did did you get that was it just me. No I couldn't even I don't think I even heard of
properly to be honest but yes when you say it like that it is a good question but I think it's
only free because you only have to pay for it because somebody decided you have to pay for it.
Oh yes yes indeed indeed. Now what John has done here is absolutely astonishing it really is
that there's my daughter struggling through a degree just now with all of the the impediments
that are being put in the way by a university that just does not take the same attitude that John
and I who imagine many of his colleagues take you know and you know what John is doing is what
all universities should should be doing at some level. Absolutely. I I recently have been mentoring
my builder on he is a very very wise chap and he wants to get into IT and has asked me to teach him
quote about computers on court which is which is a very daunting topic once you start about
because I only wanted to know about ports and how computers are going to go where do I start.
So there is a chap in in sorry you can't remember where in the east in Asia who has put all his
lectures on the internet along with videos up on YouTube all the notes everything and it has been
fantastic resource for me to you know to give my thoughts here and to do you know to explain
and then you have a diagram from this gentleman who uses all free and open source tools as well
so that putting stuff online how can I be how can it be a bad thing I don't know I don't get
absolutely not no and that's what that's what HBR is all about in in in its own way I think isn't it.
Yeah. For you to be converted as the boss. Well yeah but that's that's why I'm that's why I'm here
that's why I like HBR so much because of that that he does.
Frank Bell who I would not have put his I don't know if this is a picture of Frank Bell in his
avatar but I would not have put him you know you have a different image in your mind of somebody
but he released a show on QMMP the QT based multimedia player and the very first time I moved to
Linux this was a deal breaker for me this one I sense got over it but not having
not having Winamp was a big deal breaker I even had a running in wine for a while
did it was was there no XMMS in those days and it never really worked for me.
All right okay okay yeah well I went through a similar journey yeah Winamp and then
then I seemed to remember going to XMMS at some stage though I can't remember on what but certainly
on some some Unixy Linuxy system but then I got bored with it and better things came along.
I actually use Emplere from the command line for everything just in a in a what are you laughing in
a Yahquake Yahquake Yahquake you know you press F12 and the terminal and stuff I just stand yeah
I just use Emplere because you can do the speed up maintaining the tempo slow down pause it's
just keyboard actions and I use that everywhere it's awesome. I used to use NPC and MPD quite a lot
and there's a lot of different clients that would NPCs you know a lot of MPD clients which are
GUI clients but there's also the NPC and the end curses versions and that sort of stuff but I
I went to Amarok and then when they met yeah thanks thanks KDE thanks yeah there you go and then
thank them using Clementine at the moment. I went back to it at the time I had my brother converted to
Linux just for just for Amarok at the time it was he just blew his mind that he could all the metadata
all the Wikipedia articles everything was there and they just completely ruined that application.
I yeah yeah I still to this day do not know why they did that okay the cord was hard to maintain but
still yeah it was it was an era it was that maybe the start or at some point in that era where people
looking at UIs and saying oh no no that's not the way to do a UI let's just rip everything out
and turn it into something that's there's one color and you can't see the the buttons from
the from the background and you know all those sorts of nonsense things you know there's a lot of
that was going on and I still going on today for some reason somebody has sent out a memo going
oh get rid of memnews what why would you take menus away and let's put a ham let's put it just
a setting thing setting icon but so it's a three letter setting eye a three line setting icon
on some things on some it's a handle and some it's a three dots and some it's what you have
not knew what the icon is for getting the menu back do not take the menus out of an application
folks ever thank you a great a great yes anyway this could this could last a long time this
not sure what you do that why would you take menus out of applications I'm sorry
sorry sorry I'm sorry Frank because we're we're we weren't progressing from this
knows and loads of comments first was from mass you didn't even know the project was existed great
episode long time fan of winembe also liked qt based applications that are across platform thanks
yeah and Frank came back with the the response thanks he said glad you enjoyed it there's one
thing I forgot even though it was in my notes q m m p can be a little strange about playing
URLs that have funky characters such as parentheses in them some of the all-time radio sites most
of which are hobbyist sites have some very unusual URLs for the the individual OTR episodes
mostly because the main thing is trying to squeeze too much information into them I sometimes
end up falling back to x m m s which tool comes bundled in slack where praise bob for those
sorry audio book lover commented I discovered this site randomly didn't know where I was
clicking and kept clicking lulls but I am glad I did thanks for the great review obviously had
heard of winembe but never q m m p trying it out right now and that one calls top of my list
for potential spam Dave well me too yeah I know you were you were saying is this spam enough
but guys if you ever want to put something in and get us really interested in your comment put
random words like randomly clicking lots of lulls in it but I think the last line either
redeemed him or her or medit a medit so that their their program for putting in spam is
very good yeah well that just to digress the the way that the spam bots the comments spam bots are
developing again very clever they're really trying to write text that looks like somebody really
commenting you have to read them quite carefully before you spot them in in some cases so you know
it's it's it's an ongoing fight well this one I think was so well done that yeah but if something
comes up very similar to this and the site this comment will be removed but any audio book lover
recorder show please if you are a spam bot do also recorder show I'd love to you
and then then I commented on this one saying nostalgia I used winembe back when I couldn't avoid
using windows at work an xmmp was my player of choice on Linux for a number of years I tried q mmp
and it reminded me very much of those days I'm not sure I'm going to use it given I'm quite happy
with clementine but it was nice to feel a bit of nostalgia thanks and Frank replies nice to feel
a bit of nostalgia you make me feel old will you make me feel old will you well I am old but
I will never be a senior I'll be a cranky old man you young whipper snappers which you knew
fangled media players yes Frank I'm with you buddy yeah yeah yeah yeah I really touch the nerve
that's all right Frank yeah in my head I'm still 27 just for everybody my body can do what it
likes but I'm staying 27 are we all yeah sure I thought my thoughts sorry the following day in 1911
thoughts on gooey versus command line and what prompted me to do this is I'm listening to I've
listened to a lot of podcasts over the years and the never-ending discussion comes up about the
best destroys or whether you should y'all you shouldn't teach command line to anybody everything's
possible via the gooey and just like my rant there a few minutes ago about the menus moving around
gooey's change all the time they change between releases even it's impossible to opt there is
not we do not have the amount of people necessary in the community to opt at the documentation
to reflect the amount of changes that happens on gooey's so anyway that's that's that's the
summary of my episodes there you go well yeah yeah you're quite right of course I thought of
this as I was listening that it's it has been the source of much annoyance that those those changes
for no apparent reason sometimes they would changes like the development of Amarok up to the point
where they destroyed it was yeah was fantastic they were adding really clever things and yeah wow
once coming next it's going to be really good and you know a lot of the time it's just change
for changes sake you think yeah and again is Linux ready for the desktop yes it is I've been using
it for seven years let's can we move on with this discussion and if you don't believe me use android
if you don't believe that use comb the only impediment for people not using the desktop is you
and the applications that you happen to be using at that time yes there are going to be applications
that you need to pay bread and butter applications cause your force to buy your work well fine but
it's not that Linux isn't ready for the desktop it's the applications you're using are not ready for
Linux yeah yeah I'm going to have to have this this whole show day because I'm going on too much
of a rant here sorry about this I don't even need nobody because nobody's commented so fine
anyway that's what I think the open NMS at the all things open conference hold on hold on
well I think you've you've just crossed the streams you've just walked into December so
we shall never do this okay you know these years I'm carrying you oh god sorry I went on and
that actually that was the I think that's the first ranty episode I've done and I don't know if
people I don't think we have had that many you know ranty episodes and stuff are not ranty episodes
opinion pieces on HPR don't particularly know why not because when when they they come up with
RFM radio free America when the idea was originally floated about HPR the idea was that people would
have you know rousing discussions about their opinions and things so I don't know if that's a good
thing or a bad thing you know maybe it'll throw people away all the people who love GUIs are now
deleting HPR from their from their media player and if you disagree with me please please please
record shows and tell me how wrong I am and feel free to break up the wrongness over several
episodes so that you can tell me how wrong you are on multiple days that would be ideal very good
very good I'm impressed okay shall we move back if we um we need to look at the at the comments that
that they've been a fair number of comments that we need to cover that haven't been covered or
a few anyway um where there were there was a comment on Mike Ray's show uh raspberry pie accessibility
breakthrough yep from um hold on a minute Stephen was there I think there was an ongoing discussion
with with Mike about um he'd asked a question he'd asked a question underneath yeah yeah of
Mike and uh this was Mike's reply um which it without reading the whole thing it's not going to make
a huge lot of sense so we'll just just point to it and uh and leave the the listeners to to read
to to read it themselves perhaps okay yeah and then there was also a comment to multimedia
me excuse me multimedia mods part one and this was uh the and in my
oh sorry how much of that sorry I took my finger off yes it was an end by Bill I saw it yes
oh dear and the android geek had a question as well and and my bill um replied back to that so again
we'll point you today if you're following that discussion we'll point you to the comments and the
show notes it's pretty pretty technical and unique the context I think really to to get much out of
it um just to say I liked NY builds uh multi-meter suggestions so much I went and bought one off
eBay and I'm really impressed with it it's lovely I haven't learned how to use it properly yet but
I'm working on it how much were there uh I got it for about 28 pounds or something like that
of me based apart from from China yeah I don't think I don't think as well that you can't get um good
uh sorry multi-meters you can have more than one multi-meter on a project in fact the more
the better because uh it allows you to measure both synamps at the same time so having a few
multi-meters is never a bad thing no I I've got one my son's got one when he comes comes by sometimes
so uh yeah we we'll cover the multi-meter different my daughter just got one of those uh for
central class which is a gift giving season was today tonight actually but we he arrived yesterday
and they got my daughters and son got a um science kit three science kit little robot a little
chemistry set and then a thing where you can make circuits and there's a buzzer microphone
and stuff and she loves it and uh but there was a loose connection so I was I took out the multi-meter
shoulder how to use it and it's like after the LED it was 3.1 volts before the LED and it was 1.5
after the LED and it was like what's happening here and then explanation of that why is it minus
and why is it plus okay because the leads are going the other way oh cool one another thing I did
speaking of tips for kids um I use those Raspberry Pi's can uh I was telling you I have a Raspberry
Pi connected up to the TV and I had um uh what do you call that not Xbox uh Cordy on it and uh then
I the kids wanted to play Minecraft so I put standard Raspberry Pi uh Raspberry on it and sometimes
they want to watch movies from the NAS so now in order to get to the NAS they need to do change
directory in L.S. and like X or OXM player I was thinking of putting like a player gooey player there
but they're actually learning so much about the Linux command line better okay let's leave it there
the same to be learning the command line okay sounds a great way to learn it yeah fantastic yeah but
today it's as it's as it's as easy to get keyboard and type change directory in L.S. and play this
okay fair enough seems to work absolutely yeah comments back to the comments um did we
go on sorry did we comment on the me go t02 part one in last month show or not uh where are you now um
oh i'm coffee maker coffee maker yes yeah the uh coffee making basics I don't think we brought
we brought that one up last time this is a trouble when the comments go you know off the end of
the month yeah it's hard to remember what what it was you and you did you know i can't think of
the problem was lost well the problem is that you just open the episode up and say all of
there's these comments and you don't stop when it gets to the the ones that are outside the month
but why would you anyway you know exactly there's there's there's something wrong with the way we do
in this situation yeah yeah it's uh maybe we shouldn't even be bothering to go back and look at
you know come older comments because you know they're here in the notes so if you really want to
find them they're there you can see the episode they belong to you can see the actual comment
header you just click on it in a and a window opens for you i mean i go first to be
maybe we could we could see what people say no you'd be able we can know really easy if we go back
to the community news of last month and if the comments there then we talked about it talk
if yes if they yes you're right you're right here because the community news for last month was
still in October wasn't it so none of the november ones were had actually been been sent in at that
point am i right yeah so there was uh let's see we had comments up until yeah well this this
is actually going to be awkward because then you'd need to know which comments the last comment was
coming to an 1890 1890 so there are comments on 18 1889 up to comment four oh guys can you please
just go to the comments page and read the comments we'll try and sort this out for next month
how about that uh i think i think we've seen why don't we do this to ourselves i thought i was
mean so clever doing this thing with the comments that you used to see the sql query that does it
it it just blows my mind to try and debug it so yeah sometimes you can be too clever i think
suspect so maybe we should just keep a text file of the comments that we've covered and then
okay yeah just mark with the pencil and uh yeah i know post it's post it's on the wall
okay november uh from the hpr archive mailing list which now works again um which is actually
cool so we have um the new podcast uh announced which is the um international open magazine podcast
which i've started listening to it's quite good and information about the show uh done
wash go uh spoke about that indeed yes and he's he's put it on his list as well as me
yeah very good uh david you want to talk about the uk table case just quickly or not just
just uh i'm just trying to catch up hold on uh shall i do it i mean dav yeah has spoken like there's
a table case about the tablecloth contains various logos and the where basically it's
suffering from wear and tear right now and the question is what to do with it just wash it and
harness or take some photos of us and give both coffee stains or get a new tablecloth uh
give the pictures on uh some sort of a pvc uh material replacement for us or uh keep the original
cloth as an archive yep and that that was um uh tim timmy or marshals um suggestion when we were
on aug camp that uh he he has a route whereby these uh these these things can be done for for uh
vanishing me small amounts of money which is pretty pretty good of him um so yeah so i was
putting this to everybody as uh as a suggested way forward uh whatever you whatever you want to do
it is uh it's fine i won't might be no harm to take high resolution images of the signatures on it
anyway um because i'd like to have those on the website just so we know people who are physically
there and this is a physical thing that happens and it's a way of joining uh the one from the us
and the one from here and if somebody wants to start one in asia please free free to do that or
one in africa or wherever um so yeah uh that we can keep the kids together but i think that
kid is is pretty much in in the UK if whatever you want to do it is uh feel free to do it yeah
marshal has it sorry i'm fighting the cat off he wants to wiggle over my keyboard um marshal has
got it at the moment so uh he's uh i think he's he's up for the dealing with it when when we've
decided what we want uh to do so i'll just let him know you might be listening to this hopefully
um so okay so we'll just carry on from there then okay um the zoom h1 lord drachemblut
uh looks like he's going to scale again and this time as a fordora ambassador wanted to see if
anyone was going to be using the zoom h1 between now and then and if not could they send it to him
um i don't know if that got sorted outside of the um list or not
um so yes due to an error on my part the reservation process didn't go very well um so people
have been reviserving shows it clearly states on the site if you want to uh book a slot
upload the slot or reserve a show you could go to the page and that was written prior to the point
where we decided that uh for show reservations this was decided on the h1 list uh for show
reservations that will be uh ran by the mailing list that we're discussing on now um with the
intention that uh the community basically decides you know who gets um to reserve a show and the
reason for that is you know basically the on the calendar anybody can put any show where they want
so if you want to reserve a show next year you can do that you record your show and and
basically put it up there but if you want to reserve it because you're doing an interview and it
won't be available until that time and you want to be able to tell the participants at that event
when it's going to be up then you can reserve a show by asking on the mailing list and we get permission
and then i can book it on the database and then we'll do the show matching once it's once it's ready
and the the unfortunate thing was there was a few shows turned out that there was actually four
shows in the queue at that particular point in time uh during that week so what uh i did was then
met the following changes uh and this is a policy decision now so if you uh disagree with this
please get on the mailing list and uh uh disagree please so that the discussion continue this is
just what i'm doing here is just implementation of policy as opposed to deciding policy policies
decided by the HBR list or reservations need to be improved in the case where you wish to reserve
a particular slot but do not have the media recorded you will need to get the reservation
improved in advance by the HBR mailing list the following are standing reservations anniversary
episodes the community news on the first Monday of the month this show the final day of the
fourth month and days following the new year that was changes in stuff you need to know the PHP
stuff uh changes in requesting a slot.php has been the following has been added
you should have your audio recording ready to be uploaded before you request a slot in the case where
you wish to reserve a particular slot but do not have the media recorded you need to get a reservation
in advance by sending an email to the HBR list be sure to allow as much as time as possible
and include a reason why you feel it necessary to reserve the slot the following has been changed
from you can post your sole or reserve a slot by going to the calendar page has been changed too
you can post your show by going to the calendar page the following has been added the upload of
form works on the assumption you will be posting one show at a time from the same ip address once
you have pressed submit you will not be able to edit any of the information the following changes have
been made to contribute to PHP changed from you can now post your show or reserve a slot by going
to the calendar page has been changed too you can once you have your audio ready or you can post
your show by going to the calendar page the calendar page has now added you must have your audio
recorded ready to upload before you pick a slot the upload form has changed from number three
upload later blah blah blah blah what was i won't go into it has been changed to upload via FTP
your call in the show leave uploads option one and two empty if you want to call in the show
via the call and line remember to leave your episode number use the traditional FTP client
please email admin at hacker public radio when you're finished recording so that you can
recording can be processed following has been added number four reserve a slot leave upload
option one and two empty if you have received prior approval from the mailing list from
the community via the hpr mailing list to reserve a show now an upload media later or send in
physical media by postal service or delivery in person make sure you have enough time to deliver
your media those are the changes that have been applied to the site okay oh sorry about that
it's a lot it's good though it's good well it's a clarification and again if that's my
interpretation of the policy as it was if somebody disagrees with any of the policies please
make note of that on the list and they can be discussed and changed it's not for the first time
that things have been changed so although i would be rather annoyed after making all those edits
um first audio updates this was from a Clinton Roy at gmail who uploaded a show on how to run
a conference and not not sure if he was expecting any feedback or audio quality and basically wanted
to know if um uh flagging the show not knowing when it's not flagging a show that he doesn't care
when it gets published and cloud 2 responded um thanks for doing this it's easier for everyone
involved if you arbitrarily decide when you show going on air it's not strictly speaking necessary
you could just email the show to us or email a link to it and let us decide but then it's
also making an arbitrary decision either way it's an arbitrary and someone has to punch in the date
so it scales better if the person's omission to show just that i don't know if you know about the
calendar he had it's nice and easy and then the next uh next on that uh was from myself and um
in relation to that is the only thing that we do we don't edit shows at all we only listen to see
if they're if it's not spam and it's not audible we do not listen to shows before they're going out
because it would be uh who are we to judge whether it's your show and then i've given some
information on on the main feed and uh the community news and feedback and stuff and then we had
charles and nj commenting about the audio feedback is for your own benefit if you want pointers
and stuff you can go to the list um are if you have questions about audio editing gear does
definitely people who will be able to help and if you definitely have holes who could record shows
to address the unanswered questions or take another slot a a shot of topics from the back
catalog um the next one is Kevin O'Brien says he's taking a short break uh which when
you go replied it's understandable a lot of people basically commentate on that one um 5150
had a discussion about uh sounds at lip um i think you commented on this one as well Dave
i did i did you want me to to cover this one briefly yeah please give you a rest um
yeah uh 5150 is saying that after disconnecting his santa clip it would hang with a message refreshing
media i've had that as well yeah yeah yeah and uh he was he thought he'd come across or he had come
across somebody who suggested it might be something to do with metadata being being too long um the uh
the so he was wondering whether hpr was generating such stuff i think that that was his point
that we because there was a point at which it was suggested that the full show notes should go into
the into metadata i uh i don't think that ever no that's too much i think so too yeah i mean
it's probably physically possible because some of these formats do allow a hell of a lot of
data but it would be be incredibly hard to read and stuff so i don't think it would be a good idea
so but he he maybe thought it was something to do with that um no all we put into the show notes
now is the summary so um the text to speech voice thing that you hear at the beginning
they're 100 characters so i doubt very much it's anything to do with hpr no and you you
replied to that saying that uh you solved the problem by using rockbox it'd be the actually people
who do that you know i have this problem with this application and then oh yeah what your problem
is solved if you use why application is it sorry yes i couldn't help no no well i did pretty much
the same a bit later but uh the um because the refreshing media message is the sensor message uh it's
from the sensor software so uh so that implied that uh 50 was using that at that point so
um so yeah you you enlarged on what was actually in the metadata and uh and so on and so forth
by giving an example so um so yeah that was it that's what read that out but uh it's there if you
want to feel the links in the show notes i covered it nicely i hope so um so i just say i just
threw in my hat into the ring which because i got several sensors i sometimes get this refreshing
media thing even on rockbox machines um oh yeah one one of them does that yeah it goes into
sensor mode when you plug it into things and comes up with the refreshing media and it takes a long
long time but i i think it is just the way that software works it just does take a long time doing
what it does um so i think it is likely to be the metadata storage thing because if you've ever
seen in rockbox that it will say things if you've got it set so it saves the the metadata in the
database then there's time when it says i'm synchronizing and it can take a fair time several seconds per
per um mp3 per audio file so yeah anyway i i witted on about that stuff and tags and stuff but it's
not really very interesting so i won't read it out and the following one was which i'm going to skip
over because it was uh from mic two point one not because it was my two point but it was a 412
pre-conditioned field and for the life of me i thought that this was uh addressed to admin
at hackapublicradio.org and not the mailing list so guys everybody if there's a not
not pointed on mic here or anything but uh what i normally do when i when something like this comes
through on the mailing list i'll take it off and put it over to the admin list because uh for a
start i don't like um exposing how the site works um on a public mailing list uh uh it actually
happened that i replied back to this with the ftp username and password and that is now on the
public mailing list so i've had to change the ftp username and password so uh sorry for not spotting
that this was going to the list um but it does give you an idea of what um we do here behind the
scenes we get stuff like this regularly from time to time where we work through issues with people
so that was it um question about show notes from frank bell um and he uh was on about oh yeah
sorry frank had put in the uh the show notes uh and we had turned them into embedded images
and pop was the best way forward on that and um to be honest um i don't think we have
and really come to Dave and i are working on this and i'm just looking at some archive
emails that i think maha had from you know over to over seven or eight years ago and it's
yeah we're still working on the automation process um what's the best way to do that in
bedding images so this well i don't know what do you think it's um it's a difficult thing right
because you can say and we have said well markdowns markdowns good but
yeah when you think when you actually look at it it's a it's fine up to a point but knowing all
the intricacies of it it's a fair amount of work involved in that it it is a markup language
one of the simplest markup languages there is i mean look at latex and tech and stuff like that but
but it it's certainly got a lot of foibles and weirdnesses in it so i think frank was saying
don't really want to learn that if if it's all possible which is a pretty fair comment i thought
my thought and we need to enlarge on this but just off the just just something i've been kicking
around is when i was back in the days when email didn't have mime and all that stuff i got into the
habit of you know you had to write text mail and i used to lay my stuff out in a way fairly similar
to the way markdown ended up presumably for the same sort of reason except that if there was a
url i just put it in as a plain url it wouldn't be little brackets and stuff around it yeah but what
what i would suggest what i will suggest at some stage and maybe we should come up with our own
suggested format is to say we'll use plain text if you want there to be a header then do this thing
to make it look make it obviously a header if you want it to be a bulleted list make it do this
thing like put a hyphen on the front of each line because now we're inventing our own markup
limit well you are but if it's simple i would ask if it's simple why isn't somebody else already
invented it because it doesn't do enough because what we would then have to do would be to put
something else in there to to post process it into something more complex which i've sort of
half written a thing to to do yeah but you're going to we're now putting a barrier in in people's
place i put it in a barrier to people right so my point of view is i'm very firm on this if people
submit show notes grand whatever format they are if you're writing some show notes the best
thing to do is just write it like the text in an email avoid formatting altogether just put in
URLs with links and put in URLs with pictures to images don't put in spaces don't put in numbered
lists just put right it like you were doing an email yeah and that keeps us simple if you want
wouldn't you if if you were writing a plain text email to somebody and you just wanted to say look
yeah i need you to buy three things at the shop number one is this number two is that number three
is that would you not put them out as a line by line thing with a number on the front yeah well
if you do that with a hyphen on the front yeah and that's that's where we start getting problems
on our side because that borks everything up for us because then we have to put in line items
in front of those convert them to a ordered list get rid of the one two and three that somebody's
put down and replace them with with what's going to turn into fine HTML so if if you want to
put in formatting into your show notes what i would suggest is learn a little bit of HTML it's
really okay yes you've already told me that i need to do a show on basic HTML i will do that fine
i owe you a show right there i said it and that way people have learned the thing that is useful
for something else whereas if we come up with our own format it's only useful for hbr and you know
people have already been submitting shows for the last 10 years why would they even bother
you're looking at this new template that we've come up with well my my view was yes i see where
you're coming from but my view was that people are sort of 90% just just by default with the right
textual stuff get get very very close maybe 90% the way towards what i would suggest be a
be a sort of semi-standard format so why don't just just write it down and say well if you do it like
this then it's easy peasy if not then we have to we have to go and interpret it to to work
out what it is but if you do that then that's easy and it's not marked and it's not restructured text
and it's not you know latex or any other such thing and it's not HTML because what people
scared step by HTML okay fine but Dave you know yourself how long have we had the template file remember
the template file with the show notes at the top and we would change it from time to time and many
people would even read the template file Dave yeah so your your expectations are set to lie
by instructions that everybody would ignore you think yeah it's not that they ignore they don't
even know there's a lot of people listen to this I've never actually been to the hbr website
the email in a show they listen to you know they got the feed from somebody the email
show they don't even know the website exists and why should they we we are we are peers in the
community we decide that the format should be this and everybody else goes no no I don't think so
I want my show notes to be a garbled mess of text please put it what that way okay fine that's
what we'll do yeah yeah just put pre-tax around it and chuck it in that's it yeah yeah I have
done that in the past if as you know I do know that yeah yeah and I've probably been tempted to do
that as you know yourself from the experience because you've been looking at this for the last
few months now I've been doing it for a few more year four more five years now and the thing is
it's it's the simple emails are fine the validators html is also fine although even there
you sometimes need to go in and take out the links so that click here turns into the actual URL
but that's fine so regardless of what people send in we're probably always have to do something
unfortunately unless we do as I say in the next link which is what a wizzy week editor up
well okay that's that's certainly a that's certainly a solution which is probably potentially
better than the one I suggested but yeah okay yeah but then to argue the other point yes
but I don't want to use the website I want to use my pearl script that has spent 40 days working on
and I want to be able to submit my show notes that way thank you very much it would do that
Dave Mike I'm sure everybody has deleted this show by now but anyway we will we will continue to
persevere uh micro free uh points out again the dangers of for non-sighted folks are putting in
screenshots that if they're just screenshots that's fine but if you put in embedded text then you
shouldn't do that because it's impossible to read completely agree with him and we won't do that
I know we shouldn't do this going from the November uh stuff on the mailing list to December but
I think we should in this case Dave because of the discussion uh hold on one second where is December
uh because there was a continued discussion on the JavaScript thing from Frank Bell uh yeah
and he was basically talking about uh alt support in html uh he thinks displaying text of
terminals as a poor means of uh giving date at the best of times which I completely agree with him
and then lorde completely agrees uh they can't be easy if you do screenshots of a terminal
it can't be easily copied in we did have one thing about the there was a discussion from um 50 150
and I started a new thread because I realized that that you would get very annoyed
um if people didn't start a new thread so um it was from 50 150 and he saw that there was
a standing reservation for the days following the new year and um yeah basically should we have
he's asking um uh the confidence census was that we were working going to host a new year show
this year uh there hasn't been any buzzer around the mailing list uh I think uh we've learned
that the fall 24 hours is two ambitions uh unless a falls in a holiday weekend uh for doing a show
covering Europe and continental the US is probably okay uh if we are doing a new year show
then are we doing this or not um and I say I didn't explicitly make a booking for next year
to explain why the two slots are done they uh community news is automatically scheduled and platter
we just uh booked the shows every two weeks and I don't think he even looked at the uh at the date
from a HPR point of view the new year show actually doesn't seem to it has a negative impact on
contributions uh we see fewer par participants translating into regular hosts than we would normally
uh from a personal point of view when I do the shows I've noticed that stuff that I've covered in
the new year show um when I bring them up to people they um they have not noticed that it has
been covered whereas if I did it in a standalone show they uh they would have heard the show and
but it kind of gets lost in the noise um my standing uh my standing view personally is that um
it is a great way the new year show to catch up with all friends who haven't heard from in a while
from my own personal point of view of a lot of commitments around that time so um I'm not really
that available to do stuff and right now it's kind of late to get other podcasters involved in that
so um then we have whoops whoops whoops and then we had hunkie mugu who says uh for one would
certainly miss if the new year show went away do you still there i'm still here sorry yeah it's
just just looking through the board you to that no no i'm just trying to keep up with you because i've
got too many windows with mail in it sorry okay i'll continue on uh hunky continues um in the past
few years he's not been able to participate but he's always tried to listen to the screen and
look forward to download to get later later questions are a permission from uh john new stutter to
use his mobile server we need a stream we need somebody to record it and possibly it is
most important part is uh partisements um the last uh don't he didn't have john email john's
email so that we'd have enough bandwidth to um record that or to stream the stream and he continues
on um i'll jump forward to um
i'll jump forward to my response to that if you don't mind uh which was um yeah i'm not able to
i don't have john uh john's contact information about getting permission so if somebody wants to
do that they can the stream we have a setup from last year that um john um that's on the vps
so we can resurrect that unless somebody else is another plan uh somebody to record it and
edit later i will definitely do that because i'll need to post it and i just found that if other people
are giving the responsibility recorded and edited i waste more time trying to get it from people
and trying to coordinate that is just really turns into a saga as opposed to just work
uh most important part is participants um and the participants need to fill out the show notes
as we go and on that i put in a shared ethernet pad or something like it that exports to html
google docs last year was complete and not a pain if you are doing this if you we are doing
the community news then the show notes have to be filled in at the same time that's uh
requirement that i am imposing as as somebody because posting five hours of content and just go on
episode one episode two episode three and episode four is just a pain it's it um devalues what's
been discussed on the show and it's nice you're there somebody just fills in the thing it's uh
it's not that's not a requirement but there you go um then we had
x 11 0 1 commenting uh the other option i see is to skip the show and just have the new years
or annual time digital meetup this allows everybody to catch up uh the catch ups everyone seems
to love without the overhead recording or publishing just a thought so that's uh fine
and kevin's got filtered for some reason he sent it in html it's it's there we have to drill down
to see it thank you do you have it handy could you do no no okay i'll do it just give me one second
okay uh found it kevin said my life being what it is i cannot commit to doing anything for
the new year show this year though just for the recording that is how i get involved in html
record oh just the record that is how i got involved into htpl originally as a go true
picture and not the downloader very interesting didn't know that um that's actually pretty cool
um but it is a lot of work and it seems to fall in the same few people every year so unless we
have some serious commitments to organizing and run it it will be fine with dropping it or just
doing under abbreviated show so your discussions everybody on the hpr mailing list
Dave do you have anything else this fine night hello even if i did have anything else
sorry about that um then it's getting a bit light really isn't it um well no let's do another
two and a half hours Dave because there's no limits to the lent shows can be on the hpr
which also means you can do a five minute episode if you want
which actually sometimes it's nice to have just a five minute episode you go oh that's nice
five minute episode i have covered everything on my list i just just realized so i'm good
i am um i am actually now working on migrating the website out we have on an honest host.com
gitlab.an honest host.com we have a two sites one where um the admins have
stuff like they basically the entire website as it stands now and as i sanitize and clean the pages
up i'm moving them one by one out to the public HTML site which has got all the things like
they how we transgo the show and all the individual pages and the goal is kind of that um
anybody can go to anybody can sign up to the an honest host.com and sign in to the public stuff
what you know public with the username or password and then if you make modifications to the
web page you can do them there and then we will publish them from there onto the website probably
not automatically but you know you kind of get the idea as well micro has pointed out that our
accessibility is not brilliant and i've also realized that in the last few weeks especially with
the discussions about reserving shows and stuff that it is also not very clear about things where
they are on the website because people seem surprised that uh you know we used to be able to do
this this was on the website and i can't find it now and then i point them to the web page and they
say oh i've never seen this web page before so that is entirely my fault because apparently my
order brain is not the same as everybody else's so what i'm going to do for the purpose of
simplicity is the website will be will still look exactly the same you'll have home get shows give
shows there probably be a few more can you remember what the headings were Dave guess give something
something and something i don't i don't remember i didn't i didn't review that particular one
because you come at the back and i thought i did i did yeah but then i forgot yeah fair enough
but anyway the main menu bar will not be a drop-down list it'll just be a basic link and then you
you know get shows it'll be a click and then you get you go to a page and there'll be one page on
that and you can read it and then give shows will be something else so uh simplifying the whole
menu structure uh bringing some pages together maybe putting doing it more as an FAQ summary at the
top and then if you want details you click on the link and it brings you down to the uh to the
section underneath your good old old school html because we all love html learn learn to use html
it's uh it's more so that is going slowly sorry uh mic um boss yeah it's like you kind of want
to try to do three things at the once one time and uh that can be also difficult it's also difficult
when the trains are full because the only time we get to work on that is uh in and out to uh work
in the mornings so if it rains then everybody is on the train and then i have to stand and i can
choose my laptop so that explains that wow i quite believe it yeah yeah just it's just formed an
entirely different image in my mind is hpr sort of shut the nothing down the train line every day
yeah that's it i have uh i have a hour and a half commute every day and 45 minutes of that
depending on the train i get 45 minutes of that is hpr coding um but again if uh so that's
potentially an hour and a half i can do per day for hpr stuff but if i have to reply to emails or
do stuff on the website or just change this for posting shows or anything then that's what that
that hour and a half gets eaten up and then i need to do something else afterwards so yeah there you go
that's it there what am i i'll hang up now okay oh you're good fast am i yep okay we'll stop
recording and talk about that tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of hacker public radio
uh no no
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