hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr3046.txt

Episode: 3046
Title: HPR3046: HPR Community News for March 2020
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3046/hpr3046.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 15:44:30

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This is HACCO Public Radio Episode 3,046 for Monday, 6 April 2020.
Today's show is entitled HPR Community News for March 2020,
and is part of the series HPR Community News. It is hosted by HPR Volunteers,
and is about 76 minutes long, and carries an explicit flag. The summary is
HPR Volunteers talk about shows released in comments posted in March 2020.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by archive.org.
Support universal access to all knowledge by heading over to archive.org forward slash donate.
Music
Hi, everybody. My name is Ken Fallon, and you're listening to another episode of HACCO Public Radio.
Today's show is the Community News for March 2020.
And joining me today is... Hi, it's Dave Morris.
Hi, Dave. How are you doing?
I'm doing okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, other than being locked in my house and all that good stuff.
For those of you listening in the future, this is COVID-19, too.
Yes, yes, yes, it's a... It's odd how the whole concept of quarantining
hasn't really got through to a lot of people. You know, it was six months.
Saying this to somebody the other day, say you had ten mice, and you had them all in the cage,
and one of them got ill. What would happen?
And say you split all those mice up and had them in separate cages, and one got ill.
What would happen? You know, it's quite a simple idea.
But it's very, very strange when it's yourself, and your neighbours, and your friends,
and your family, and everything, I guess.
The mind boggles, really.
I think it's quite hard to mistake this particular virus.
There are some people who have it, but it's usually quite high fever for several days.
You know, it's not just the passing cold that makes you sneeze and cough a bit,
in the majority of cases that I've certainly heard about.
So, yeah.
And what we need is testing. We all need a test of things,
so we can do an antibody test and say, oh, yeah, yeah, look at me, I've had it.
I'm okay, I'm free, I can go, or I want to go, so I can't get it anymore.
That's...
Yeah, and we also need to know if that...
If that statement is valid and correct.
Well, yes, yes.
And we all need all that if people have been tested.
It's not absolutely the case that we know that you can't catch it twice,
or all the indications are really strong.
You can tell I've spent the past and weeks reading everything,
and I've been down about coronavirus and all this sort of stuff.
But, yeah, it's one thing to do, I guess.
The mind truly boggles.
Unfortunately, the reason we don't have test kits, Dave, is why?
Because patents on the...
And the patents, basically.
Good grief.
Yes, oh, yeah, yeah, why not? Why not?
Yeah, yeah, make sure that those guys make some profit,
and, you know, good of all, what's that?
Well, you can't make any profit from...
Let's see, I want to spit.
Anywho, for those of you, this is not this week in...
Yeah, this month, in Chrome 19, thankfully.
It is, in fact, the HBR community news for March 2020.
It's been a bit of a strange one for a lot of people.
For more of us, it's been a return to an ideal day.
Peace and quiet, stuck at home with the internet.
So that was fine.
We have had one new host, Dave, actually.
You'd like me to say this.
No.
I'm just wondering, is this all too waffly for people?
We just start again and...
I don't know.
I mean, considering that the last show...
We're going to talk about it in the month, is all about...
Yeah, true.
...sitting them waffling.
And personally, I found it really, really, a lot of fun.
Well, it's not to say people will enjoy this thing to this, necessarily.
But I think it's...
So, Natali, now looking into this...
Well, I'm going to not edit this because I don't believe in editing shows.
Well, guys, you can write in and tell us, is this too waffly or not?
Do you want your HBO community news with...
...without coronavirus?
I don't know.
Anywho.
The HBO Hica Public Radio's community news podcast network
where the shows are released by people very much like you.
In fact, released by people like you.
So, if you are stuck at home board census, rather than going yet another internet meme search...
Why not record a HBO episode and send it in?
And this show is the community news show where we take a monthly look at what's been going on in the HBO community.
So, can you welcome the new host?
Yes.
Let's jump a little bit there.
CRVS is our new host and we're here, obviously, from him this month.
Excellent.
Possibly not this month.
Well, the month we're talking about, let's say.
Yes, and it happens to be this month as well.
So, as we always do, we go through the shows that have been released in the last month.
So, you can get a flavor for what they were about if you miss them and failing that.
Just to make sure that everybody gets some sort of feedback on every show.
So, the first show that we had was the community news for the previous month.
And there are zero comments on that, Dave.
Indeed.
We do need good job of being non-controversial, obviously.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's annoying.
We need to be controversial, Dave.
How can we be controversial?
Let's say free software sucks.
Why don't we?
Coronavirus.
I know, I won't go down that road.
No, exactly.
So, following day, app to be a Monday Tuesday, probably.
And it was the first time 2020 stand interviews by Muah.
And a show which was one hour and 32 minutes in long,
but probably a lot longer than that to put it together.
Yeah, well, I think you need congratulations on having achieved it,
because it's a massive office that you've constructed then.
I did enjoy it a lot.
It's, as you know, everybody knows I'm sure,
and I've never made it to most in,
but it was nice to hear about it at this level.
I'm off to the event.
It was good.
Yeah, it was really nice to have a stand there this year.
It was, it was very good.
One day was enough to be honest on the stands, but.
Yeah.
I worked out quite well, didn't it?
Yeah.
Two days of that would have been, would have been a nightmare.
I think he'd never want to do it again.
Absolutely.
It would be wasted.
Yep.
So the following day we had Carl,
and this was critique my script,
episode one, where somebody throws themselves to the HBO community
to get somebody to critique their brush scripts.
This is something that Dave will do for free, people.
But you ask him to do it or not.
He will do it for free.
I know.
I know.
I should learn to shout out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did make a few comments.
But actually, my comments were there's nothing compared to these,
the ones that came in from the other members of the community.
So should we go through it?
So what was the,
what was the point of the script?
It was a,
QTS crew generator.
I mean,
met a very nice,
very nice page actually.
Yes.
You could go and look at the end results of the thing,
which is, which is quite impressive.
So it's a B 17 queen of the sky's air crew generator.
I think this is for some sort of game, is it?
And there are so many roles that need to be filled.
And then it generates names for those roles.
And that's what the script does.
Yep.
So yeah,
I think it might be in the appropriate to go through all of these comments
in detail.
Of course, there's tons of,
well, in my case,
anyway,
lots and lots of brackets and dollar signs and stuff.
Can you give a summary of what you're talking about?
Yeah, I made,
I think just two comments.
One was to say,
because calms using a very,
very strange form of arithmetic to,
to increment the counter.
I suggested that he used the,
the pro, the pre or post increment arithmetic expression fee
that I talked about in various of my shows.
I made a reference to it as you do.
And so that was the first one.
And the second one was talking about making,
slicing things up based on fields.
And he used a pipeline where he printed the thing and then cut it up.
And I suggested that you could actually do it in bash.
Not fully appreciate it wasn't necessarily using bash.
So yeah, that was kind of his point here.
But it's good to know how to do it in bash.
I liked nobody's answer,
which was,
you know, taking a completely different approach.
And something that actually frustrates me when you,
when you post a question on the forum.
And then you get,
no, don't do it this way.
Do it this way.
Somebody goes off on a complete tangent,
not answering the,
that you particularly have a reason for doing it that way.
But his suggestion was to use the shelf command for shuffle.
So you have a text file of first names and a text file of last names
and then merge them into,
into two things,
which is kind of kind of a nice approach to doing the problem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that's a good one.
I enjoyed reading that one.
I was going to suggest shuffle,
but I wasn't entirely clear about the best way to do it.
I was pipped at the post,
which is probably just as well.
So Carol replied,
I've asked for the critique.
So I appreciate the common stave.
I didn't have any strong reason for not using bash,
but it was down to the most limited scripting I do
is in Anna Raspberry Pi
and other single board computer type devices.
Usually with Alpine Linux,
which out of the box has been SH,
similar to busy box.
So I work with that in lieu of installing bash.
I sort of like the extra challenge of not using batches,
even if it does make things a bit harder,
oglier than it needs to be.
I'm at a loss to explain where I come up with the triple parentheses
for incrementing I.
I just tried it on busy box
and the two seemed to work fine,
although three does also.
The plus plus form does not.
As you know,
that would require bash,
though, I'm familiar with that form.
It just doesn't work with constraints of busy box.
Fair enough, fair enough.
See, I have this mindset that says,
well, you've achieved shells that do really smart things.
So I do not want to use dumbass.
It's a bit like,
you know, I want to have hammers and nails.
I don't want rocks and bits of wood.
Yeah, but we've got
no resource single bar computers.
Yeah, yeah.
I know.
If I was ever cast and drift on an island or something,
I'd probably go, oh, damn,
I wish I'd learnt that.
I think it was rocks.
So I do appreciate that this is a failing on my butt,
but it's a mindset that's hard to see.
And Carl also comes at nobody.
I looked at the stuff for this,
but it's not a busy box built in
and not included out of the box with Alpine,
although Alc is,
which is why I went with a generating random number pairs.
So to say that I don't know what tools are available
is perhaps a little unfair as I state in the episode
that I'm limiting myself to busy box built-ins,
imposing that limitation on myself as perhaps a bit silly,
not at all,
but is a fact that I would have to install something
to get the additional functionality reference
and that may not always be possible or desirable
in embedded applications.
Anyway, I wrote the above,
so I leave it there,
but I decided to double check
I usually refer to a busy box URL,
busy box URL.
As a single page reference to the built-in stuff
isn't listed,
but the user bin shelf is indeed a simlink to busy box
on one of my Alpine devices,
which is a little bit annoying.
When I work on a script like this,
I usually do it on my laptop
that has all the full tools,
but I double check against the busy box page
to make sure I'm not using a command or option
to a command that busy box doesn't support.
Then I test on the device.
So,
excuse me,
bring up the mic time coffin.
So nobody's saying,
unclean!
Now I can't transfer over,
I think, my mumble.
To see what tools this nobody's speaking,
see what tools your busy box comes with.
You should run it without options.
Busy box is quite configurable,
so you should check documentation generation
with the same configuration as your target.
That web page is either very outdated
for a generation from some sample configuration.
Besides,
Ash also has dollar random,
so using org isn't really necessary
and it demonstrates random
being constrained by the length of a string.
Here is also a fix of Dave's suggestion,
and he suggests a different way of achieving it.
If you use pre-increment,
the i equals one is also unnecessary, he says.
So, good point.
Yep.
Shall I do it?
You've done several.
Shall I do the second one?
Start along increment in Ash.
Also, if you want the double brackets,
i plus plus increment for Ash,
you could pretty easily replicate it
with a colon dollar,
two open brackets,
i plus plus two closed brackets.
The colon is a sort of
an old statement,
but the shell parses,
the stuff and action,
whatever's on that line,
so you can do sort of secret things.
What?
Through that route.
Yeah.
Did you cover that already?
I have not covered that.
No, no, no.
It's a thing.
Also.
Do we not have,
do we have shows from nobody about Ash?
I don't recall.
Zero, zero, zero.
That's a, yeah, that would be,
isn't that be good?
It's very, I'm not angry.
Dave, I'm not angry.
Very disappointed.
I would imagine.
Yeah.
Here's somebody who has time to write comments
and talking through them would,
you know, do a show.
As we were just one show short
of filling up up the queue
for the next two weeks,
seems such a pity.
Such a pity.
Yes, especially when you can do it
on the basis of,
here's something you might have tried to do in it,
and here's a bent way of doing it,
sort of thing,
rather than some great long production,
like some people do, you know.
Exactly.
Pages and pages and stuff.
Anywho.
Now that we've done the,
the mandatory request to show thing,
car or replies,
or are you finished with that call on thing?
Actually, I'm sure on that,
on that, can you contact nobody?
Or do we have an address for nobody?
Probably not.
Given that.
No, no.
Ah, yes.
Nobody, can you send in a show,
please, about that call on thing,
how it works.
Thank you.
Carl replies,
neat.
Echo,
double random thing,
percent length.
That's neat.
First time I tried it, though,
I got the same number twice in a row.
That's the thing about random, I guess.
Probably just a fluke,
but it's interesting to test in rapid succession,
for example, in the loop,
to see if it's not prone to do that
with oak random number generator.
To be clear,
you're not suggesting a poll pre-posed
increment works on
the bug ash, correct?
They don't appear to be to,
sorry, they don't appear to,
unless I'm doing it wrong,
ash,
and then it gives an error
to which nobody replies,
and Dave Morris' voice.
Yes, I've not used ash very much,
like I said, I'm trying to void
these simpler shells.
But a lot of them used to have
let.
So let something equals,
and then an error of mittily expression,
so you could do let i equals i plus one.
But I don't know my knowledge about these things
comes from CSH,
TCSH,
SH and bash,
and then having learned bash,
I've tried very hard to forget
the other ones,
because I hate them.
No prejudice at all.
No, no.
So yeah, I wouldn't like
to give a definitive answer.
So nobody says,
referring to commercial institutions
that dollar,
two brackets.
Is that what matters?
No, it's not.
It's an arithmetic thingy.
I doubt there's any significant difference
between all random number generator
and ashes,
the equivalent.
Certainly,
not any that would matter
for a project like this.
And you said they're just
threw up an Alpine container,
and at least there it works just fine.
What command did you run that produced
this error message?
That was one that said
ash,
arithmetic syntax error.
And shall I just carry on?
Carl says version three.
Nobody not sure what I did earlier
to produce the arithmetic error.
I just tried it again,
your examples of working.
Sorry about that.
I just did a third version,
and he refers to his latest version
of the script,
greatly simplified knowledge
and just using sharp repeatedly,
for nobody's example,
to get the first and last name.
And he...
Very clever.
That it works on a piece of thin link.
Thanks both to both Dave and nobody
for the feedback.
So it's quite a quite a fun dialogue,
I think.
Yeah, very much.
I learned some stuff.
So did I.
Would have liked to learn this
in the medium of podcasts,
but fine.
Fine.
Maybe one day.
Yes.
The next day had me in stitches.
A funny thing happens the other day
because I posted this.
And there's a picture of the source
of the noise in the show notes.
And I was way off the mark
of what it was.
This was Mr. X's investigation.
And we will not comment more on that.
Or there are two comments to the show.
Let's see.
Did they give anything away?
Tukitorito says,
great storytelling.
I love the story telling
in this one.
And the use of sound effects
really made my morning.
Mr. X replies,
we great storytelling.
Hi, Tukitorito.
Many thanks for the kind words.
Glad to enjoy the episode.
It certainly had a stump when it happened.
All the best, Mr. X.
So yeah.
Don't, don't, don't.
Mystery at Mr. X's house.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the footsteps across the room
and the lots of all the sound effects
loved it.
Very, very nice.
Super duper.
Anywho.
Next day.
Kevin.
Ahuka.
Keeping unwanted messages
of steady verse.
Activity for conference.
Techniques for fighting spam
and unwanted messages on
steady verse,
to which I replied
as a person not a hit
pure admin.
I disagree.
Hi, Ahuka.
As you know,
I am enjoying the series.
I don't think
that charging for messages,
however small,
is the answer.
It is socially unfair
to impose financial barrier
that many may not be able
to afford to quote my mother.
It's not a lot to have,
but it's a lot to want.
I had to send 100 applications
to give my first job,
and that would amount
to $1 in your proposal.
Put that into context,
where your income is
$41 a month,
and you see how it excludes
the poorest nation.
In any event,
this was tried
with email back
in the 1990s
and 2000s
and failed,
including the link.
However,
that didn't stop companies
from trying to profit
from the idea.
Basically, Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
Ahuka,
them coming. Yeah, interesting. So a hooker applies further discussion to place
surges ideas in context. It should be pointed out first that he intended that the
price paid on an email would go to the recipient which is why he said it would be
a wash for most people. As a recovering economist I do believe that anything
that is provided with no charge at all is likely to be abused and that's what
we're talking about. It's also worth noting that surges proposal about charging
was a way to get around the only other piece of the way to control abuse which
is to sharply limit who can send messages. I can right now write a rule that
says anyone not already my address book can't but successfully send me an
email. I just delete on site any email from someone not in the book. Yeah, I'm
not sure I particularly agree with that because that was also tried where
people get paid to receive emails and the advertisers didn't like it because
you had click farms who are people who are just hired into call centers and
all they spent all they did all day was clicking on web pages to get the
revenue. So that won't work either. Well, yeah, I think yeah, it's free
speech. And it's also you don't if somebody comes to draw or send a crap
you turn them away. Basically, it's a problem I guess but everything has to be
balanced and the idea of of trying to put do it with a financial incentive what
will happen is somebody will find a loophole and exploit it and by the time the
exploitation has become evident, it's a business model and you can't get rid
of it because that is now how things are done and you're ruining the
messaging economy by taking that out and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, think of the
children. Oh, yes. So I just need to I just need to step away for a second
because I'll go grab a coffee. How about we do a truncate silence. Thankfully, we
haven't mentioned it Dave. Hopefully we'll notice. Back in five folks. Okay.
I'm back. We do. So we just spent two hours waiting for the other person. And you
the next day, hex bug and battle bots, which was by operator and it was a nice
little introduction to these hex bugs, battle box things and how you can
customize them and use them found a very interesting myself. Sounds like a lot of
fun actually. Yeah, which I was young again. Well, I had young kids. That's an
excuse. Grandkids Dave. Grandkids. Who knows? To which
Windigo replied? I did you want to do it? I don't mind. I'll do it if you like.
We've done more than I think. Windigo says great episode. My partner uses
hex bug or similar robots in her steam lessons. Steam being an acronym for
science tech engineering art and math. But I've never heard of battle bots. They
sound like loads of fun. Please keep the episodes coming. You have a knack for
doing episodes that exemplify the hacker ethos while being fun and unique.
Here, here, here, here, agree. Operator is very much like a box of chocolates. You
never know what he's going to throw at you. Yeah. I'm enjoying them. I'm gonna say
resourceful fellow. Sorry? I said he's a resourceful fellow. He's got a lot of
stuff. Yes, yes. Or no, maybe he just talks about stuff for the rest of us
don't. So yeah, there's a lesson to be learned there. I do like the acronym
Steam as opposed to STEM. I like the chuck in the art in there as well. Yeah. Yeah.
All right. So it's good. It's good. It's not been involved personally, but it
looks like a lot of fun. Cool. So the next day might be Mike. What is
content computing and why we should care? What is quantum computing hype about and
what is it that quantum computers will be able to do? OMG, this was a brilliant
episode. Thank you very much. It really cleared up an awful lot of stuff for me. I
found myself following along up to a point and then he sort of streaked off
away from my level of understanding. So it's actually so often I need to listen
again because I think he he was doing a brilliant job of explaining something
which is very hard to explain. So yeah, wonderful. Agreed. I've sort of
do this thing. Yeah. I think I've been watching a lot of videos, you know,
physics, visual, physics and engineering videos about quantum computing
because it's it's something that's mentioned out there, you know, the whole
tag along quantum on the end to it and you'll be able to sell your milkshakes
for a higher profit. But I think when he when I heard this episode, it just
everything that I had picked up clicked to get clicked together for me a little
bit. And as he says, if you claim to understand quantum computing, you don't. So
very good. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter's best friend is doing PhD in
physics department down the road and she's working in the quantum area. But I've
not had a chance to ask it. Could you just explain what it is you're doing?
Whether she would answer me anyway. I don't know. I'm sure you have a microphone
around. Yeah, if that ever happened. Yeah. That's I'm so intrigued to know what
it is she's doing for PhD. The following day, first time host, CRVS.
And there was a comment to this, even though it was in the in the future.
Should we? Oh, okay. So far ahead. Yeah. I thought I did that cloud.
Mongo says very interesting talk. It wasn't enough information for me to build
my quantum computer, but I did find it interesting. Look, looking forward to episode two.
That's when the government come in and shut us down because we filter all quantum
computers and abasement.
And then that day, what can't that be fun? Yeah.
Okay. Next day, more ads and ask out a hopefully not too rambly introduction
to fun, functors and more ads in and out in Haskell.
I needless to say this, well, or this was from a new host, CRVS, who's also
one of the Wednesday night D&D people, I believe. And we had surprisingly, oddly enough,
one of our host, Tukitorital, had a comment on the show. Welcome. Welcome and thanks
for the first great show. You jumped directly into the deep end with a show about more ads
and the category theory. When I saw it in the queue, I wanted to listen to it immediately.
Instead, I saw it for the morning, safe for the morning walk today, so I could concentrate on
it properly. Very good. Yes. Yes. They're obviously quite able to communicate in great
depth and subject to them. CRVS replies, thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope I was
clear enough not too rambly. I didn't go into the known ad laws because it was already
difficult enough to be somewhat coherent. This is excellent that there is now a
Haskell community developing here on HPR. Yeah. Yeah. It's I'm not going to be one of them.
Let's put it that way. I'm still struggling. I will. I'll be happy at the party sitting listening
as people talk about it. Absolutely. Absolutely. The approach where you listen and try and absorb
and then gradually put the pieces together is good, but it's a very, very slow way to learn stuff.
The following day we had Archer 72 with the first of a soundscape, which is our journey through
sound, not so much size. It was for the Metera train and the announcement that the train will be
used to be a server-failer, which was awesome to hear. Just bugs, bugs, bugs everywhere.
Yeah. Wasn't it strange? And the server folks seem to lead all the the announcement systems
saying the same thing over and over again in rather bizarre way. It was some sort of strange
jam-brack music going on in the background. But I love the acoustics of the building and how
that interacted with each other. I was very close to getting a migraine from it, but
I'm glad I didn't have to wait two hours for my train that that would drive me nuts, but
it was a relatively short episode, so nice. We had enough to get the feel and no more.
You assumed that there was a sort of a sound delay caused by propagation of sound. There could
also have been a delay caused by the software just being out of sync with it, so something like that.
It all sort of rotated out of sync in a design way. That was an excellent thing. That's a great
thing to record. Definitely have a recorder with you in your ear, a thing like that.
Absolutely. So my new Samsung Tablet MrX shoving it in our face, why don't you?
There were no comments because we were all annoyed with them.
Yeah, no, it was interesting to hear. It sounds like a fun machine. And as it drove to work,
he's turning into a day of eights on his way to work, along the Edinburgh City bypass or whatever.
So yeah, cool. No, very nice. A nice to hear about people's setups, because I was thinking of
getting a tablet as a replacement for an e-reader, and then A, the price was, I can't justify that
sort of price. 200 and... 212 pounds plus free shipping. But also then a lot of the
quirkiness of the software and stuff. Means I don't think I will buy that tab is essentially it,
which in itself is a good thing. No, I'm keeping away from tablets, personally. My old Nexus,
what was it? Seven. Was that a little bit of a call? The early Nexus tablets. I think this
directs I've had one as well. It's still alive, but it's very, very, very slow. But yeah, it's
some, I don't know, I don't know anymore. So the following day, we had an introduction by Daniel
Persons, and I love these episodes. You really get to know about people. So brilliantly. Also
great work there on the SQRL protocol, which you did the show previously. Yep, now I was
interesting, interesting to hear about him. He's a, he's a very resourceful fella.
How was the comment? Yeah, far ahead. You would do that. In that gap there, I will do the comment
from Clive 2. History, he says. It's fascinating to hear about the early internet and internet
commerce. I think if they're sharing this history. That was pretty cool. Moving on to the next
episode, which was Pycore and Raspberry Pi 1, Mazel B from Claudio. And I haven't thought to do that.
I have four additional Raspberry Pi's in my, of the original ones and my collection not being used.
But this might be a very useful little thing to do with some of them.
Well, I felt the same way, actually. I have one model B,
Pi 1 B or whatever they called it. And it's sort of given up the ghost. I think the SD card died,
and I haven't used it. It's just sitting around. So this would be a great way to resurrect it,
I suspect. So good, good pointer. Yeah, excellent. And Winniegall says, minimal distributions are
the best. I've tried out Tiny Core a few times over the years, but had no idea they made
a Raspberry Pi edition. What a pleasant surprise. Awesome. Yeah, cool. 32-bit time travel,
Linux in laws, podcasts on topics around free and open source software, part of the series,
Linux in laws, and the full show notes are available on their website. There were no comments
on the show. No, it was, it was an interesting show. There's just the one they were talking about
the, yeah, the time issue, 32-bit time, which is, yeah, which is obviously some, most of us will
know about it, but it was good to hear some information about it. And the other thing was the
the crook floor, whatever it is, of the Wi-Fi thing, where you can gather certain amounts of data off
the Wi-Fi as it just things shut down and come back to life again. It's not very good summary,
I'm sure, but it was, it was interesting to know a little bit more about it.
Yeah, the odds are covered, the KR-0 crack vulnerability kernel wireless wiki as a list of
their devices, general problems around the time, and some sample code demonstrates the issue
requiring 32-bit systems, the time T stuff. Yeah, cool. So the next day, Taj sent us in a show
requested on the matrix channel, which was how to bridge free node IRC rooms to matrix.org.
And this is from clacky and divly helped on this one. And this is a good step-by-step intro. Very good.
Yeah, this is very useful. I made a mental note to try it, I haven't done so yet,
it's hard to say, but it looks, looks like it a very useful way of having the one client that gets
you to, to many places. There's a telegram thing as well, I believe, so I'd quite like to do that
too. Yeah, but does that mean then that you need to do your own server to run all those bridges?
I don't know. Yeah, that would be interesting, because I have, I currently now have runbox,
and that is basically a hack where it uses a web client for all these different protocols,
but if I could get them all into the one place, that would be absolutely awesome. And if it meant I
had to run my own instance, that would be less awesome, but it would still be okay.
Tattoo had a comment, which he said, did not know this. Thanks for the info, Taj,
I didn't know how to do this, but now I do. I can now be both tattoo and non-t Tattoo on matrix
that's still pretty satisfying. It's a long-running thing, the HBR has been going on so long
that I think Tattoo has changed his email address and contact information more times than
some people changes are underwear. Yes, I'm going to meet those people around you.
No, that's true. But now thanks to Groma, you don't need to,
following the decentralized hashtag searching and subscriptions in Federation Social Network.
No guessing, no clues, no surprise, it was by Ahuka, another activity pub 2019, and a proposal
on how to use hashtag and find the subscribe content. This one had me surprised, and I'll say it
because it never dawned me that hashtags wouldn't propagate and all this security and privacy
implications as a result of doing that. So if you happen to her this episode, please listen to it.
It was, yeah, it opened my eyes too, I have to say, I haven't completely thought about it.
So when they say, oh, of course, yeah, but yeah, how do you fix it?
So, and the talk that is referenced sounds like it's more of a look of interest and that sort of
thing. Haven't done it yet. Yeah, I've found two. And this was another operational one.
Wii U is long dead, long live Wii U. Next to me, Mark. Operator discusses how to
jailbreak the Wii essentially. He has already done a previous episode on this.
And this was an update that essentially a lot of the original resources are kind of
gone away in so far as the community, you know, they're not the many Wii original Wii's out there.
And in order to hack the games and stuff, it's still possible, but he gives you a few tips on how
to do your home brew stuff yourself if you're into that sort of thing. I don't have, I don't have
any of this sort of kid. And my kids are not quite into this room stuff anymore.
So, well, we just, we dusted off. We didn't buy one. We got one for free from the neighbors.
And the kids use the dance, the music dance game. And then because we're in with the Corona thing,
they dusted it off and have been using it a little bit, you know, to do just, to do some exercise
and say, hmm, sounds good. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think the daughters heavily into animal crossing
it alone. It's a whole different area of game, game playing. Yeah, I don't know something
or other. What is I don't know. I mean, the sun was on about that. Class, cash free, A, B, and C types,
stuff. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it prices me down.
Guess what to do, show. Do you know the number of times I've said to both my kids, you could do
show, but on HBO. Oh, yeah, yeah, I could do, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think about it. In fact, my daughter came
back from her, her, her degree, she's still doing an MSc got the most semester to go and she said,
oh, this is really interesting. Maybe I could do some of the stuff I've been taught about on HBO.
And I said, yeah, yeah, go for it, go for it. And then she says, oh, dear, I'm really too busy. I can't do it.
Here, here's the microphone. How about we take the first take of us and then later when you're
time you can update it. Yeah, yeah, we will then welcome. So Archer 72 sent in another one where the
server was actually fixed and ambient sound. And to be honest with you, my wouldn't comment on
the original one would be to, can you please send us in an ambient recording of Union Station
Justin General. And this is awesome. I could really like these type of episodes. You're in, you
need to listen to them with headphones and with normal speed obviously, but it's worth the sacrifice.
Yeah, there's something wonderful about just hearing the sounds of a place, the typical sounds.
So yeah, yeah, I have been, if I haven't been stopped from going to the zoo, I've got a membership
the Edinburgh Zoo. And as I go there, the noise is there. Amazing. I keep thinking, oh, God,
why didn't I bring my recorder? I could have taken some, some ambient sounds of the zoo. So
when I back that, I shall try it. And I've been meaning to, again, now that I don't go to work,
some mornings are just pure, you know, the sound of the rain and the sounds of the streets. And
just I've been tempted to take my recorder and just walk my commute into work and then just turn off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how interesting that one and a half hours of boredom would be, but yeah, fine.
Do you sound percent of it? That's right. That's what the fast-forward button is.
Yes, speed it up 100%. And the next day, solo magic, playing magic without the gathering,
platoon. And I didn't know where he was going with this, but then it was where magic, the gathering
is a typical game that you play with, loads of other people, etc, etc. And he gets, if basically
useless cards and then how to build a game based on the useless cards such as how do you play it
by yourself? That is essentially the show. And it's very good for the ended up doing, it's classic.
Yeah, certainly, certainly prepared to spend a good amount of time and brain power on
you since. So, no problem. Yeah, the next day, Mr. I do stuff better than Ken,
published his show Making a Raspberry Pi status display with your 3a plus and an old monitor and
magic mirror 2. Dave, awesome show. Well, thank you, you have. Now, I knew you had this and I
already set up two magic mirrors around the house. Neither of them are as nice as this and I
intend to steal your stuff, except for the head and wearable suits.
You never know, it might be interesting. Yeah, give me a shout. Dave, the 44s just come in.
So, the weird thing is I put the news, you know, the news feed actually down at the bottom,
which I don't like actually. I would prefer it to be the whole news article and then go to the
next whole news article, you know, like in a display. I don't really like the way it's at the bottom
like that, but I put in the Dutch, you know, the national Dutch news and the national
English news from the BBC and from RT in Ireland. So, I've got the three national news,
but I've also got the local one here and the local one where my parents live. So, yeah,
there's really random, random collection of news stuff that goes fast. It's actually quite a
lot recent. Yeah, that's a nice idea, actually. By the way, if you use the remote control thing,
then one of the options there, you can go into modules and tweak them. One of the tweaks for
for that particular module, the news one, is that you can show the show part of or the whole article.
Well, it takes up all your screen potentially, but you can change the level at which it displays.
Now, I don't know how you do that and there's this permanent thing in the config.
I have a, I have it that displays quite a lot of the article now underneath. So,
that's close enough for Jeff. Okay. Okay. Fair enough.
Yeah. But my issue with the news feed is it's very much, it's an active thing that gets you
active. Whereas the magic mirror in itself is just a display there and you want to know what time
it is and you want to know the next boss. It's a very passive. I want to keep it as passive as
possible and not be a source of agitation. Yeah. Is that weird? Not really. No. I would think
the same. Although I do get active stuff that says there's a comment just come in for HPR
and things. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I wanted both, I guess, both of those things. So the news,
the news is, I found the news incredibly depressing because of you. Exactly. Exactly.
So I've reduced all my news consumption down to just those banners, but even that can be pretty
grim. So yeah. The next day, why use GNU auto tools? Six good reasons why you should use a build
system by Clatu. And I agree with all of them. He also mentioned Dan Moshko saying, I'm on the
next textual back in the day about Linux does have a universal packaging system. It's called GNU,
it's called make, make install. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. But see, I've gone through a process
of, I had to use this a lot back in the day when we had the start again, Unix systems in my work.
And that was in the sort of late 80s, maybe, early 90s. And I had ended up with one of my desks,
a workstation on my desk running Ultrix. And I used to install things on it. And it was all in
this format because that's all there was. And so I got very much used to using as a consumer of
this thing. I got used to using it. And you know, it just seemed great. But then I moved to Linux.
And then I didn't sort of dismiss it. Oh, that's for that Ultrix thing. I don't really want to use
that anymore. So he is packages and stuff. And to stop and review that view point. I'm terrible
for conducting viewpoints, which maybe are not entirely sensible. It was quite a, quite a revelation
to me. Exactly. And I have this feeling that whatever goes around comes around. And sooner or later,
the paradigm of computing shifts and blah, blah, blah. And now we're back to like source control,
continuous development and automation. Yeah. Do you really need a package manager or is make install
sufficient in order to is that even cleaner because you have more control on the packages. So
you're seeing industry shift to using make and as even a more pure form of what the developer
wanted. So yeah, it's, but it's well, if you haven't listened to the show and you're dealing with
software, well worth a listen, as always, to platutials. Yeah, I certainly found it quite,
quite a revelation and the mind changing episode. And if your mind wants to be blown the following
day, he's done a very, very detailed and I will compliment him on his show notes, which sometimes I
will say are a little bit sparse, but he has the reason they're, the reason they're good is because
he, I copied and pasted them from the introduction to canoe auto tools, which was on opensource.com.
And I pasted them in here under the terms of the greater commons license, which brings up another
topic. And there's no comments on that episode as yet. If you're not subscribed to opensource.com,
I highly recommend that you do because it is, there was six posts a day and all of them are
interesting. Even if it's just a quick scan and you scan through anything, that's not really
relevant for me, but I found myself reading their, the majority of their stuff higher than 50% of
their stuff. Yep, yep, I've certainly looked, I haven't, I don't sort of read it on a regular basis,
but certainly fans will make some things there. Throw it in your feed, throw it in your feed and
see what happens. Now, COVID-19 worked from home stream day one, the couple of HPR characters
decide to spend their social distancing time being social. And I will put in brackets there,
in a proper way by using remote tools and not as some of my neighbors are doing,
setting their chairs outside in the front garden and then talking to people as they go past.
Anywho, how long have you cleared to get COVID-19 about the markets, Python,
growing plans, audio, book club, the saga of, doon, doon, doon, more news on that later.
Stay tuned to this station. On board Singapore's reply commuters, why haven't you done a show about
that touch? Emacs and you do org mode and nano for the win. I like these, if you
think, if you enjoy the HPR New Year show, this is kind of the same thing. Oh yeah, thank you
for ties for doing these. Yes, yes. I, yeah, it's one of those that I came away from thinking,
oh, let's go and write a comment and say how much I enjoyed it because I bloody don't.
Yeah, yeah, I forget to do it. But yeah, I thought this was great. And it's just what I need it,
you know, you know, some, some, some people having an interesting sensible chat about, about stuff
that's rattling around at the moment. And yeah, it was, it was great. I really enjoyed this a
lot. And it's quite a, quite a trio there in some interesting discussion. So yeah, thank you.
So there were two comments, both on Linux in-laws episodes from previous shows.
And one was by yay. Hello, heard, Chris Zimmerman talking about LBW on FOS Weekly and mentioned
your podcast also was an old outlaws listeners. So started listening to the new in-law show now
today seems nice so far only listened to 20 minutes. Cool, that was bitching by the way.
Oh yeah, I've been, not yet. I was, I was, I was a comment on the second of the Linux in-laws
by Claudio N. Thanks to these episodes, I realized that Chris Zimmerman was also interviewed on
FOS Weekly number 5, 6, 8th, where he talked about Linux and VR and all. I thought the voice
sound of him in it, so I had to do some research. And yes, it's the same Chris from Linux in-laws
and he references to it TV show. Yeah, yeah, and I heard that FOS Weekly somewhat late. So
but it was good. Yeah, he did, did a great job. But, um, Linux be a hike, he said it was a translation
of it. Sounds like I have something to do. And I've been in the UK many times too, I haven't realized.
So you had a switching on to the mail list archive. There was the HPR show notes question
from you. You can get a summary of that or? Well, I guess I'm a natural born archiveist
and like to have continuity in the things that get archived. And I was remarking on the fact that
the many cases show notes being posted with links to other places for the bulk of the notes.
And also links to personal sites and that type of thing. And although this is great for the
moment, the show comes out. In a longer term, from an archival point of view, the many cases,
the so-called bitrocked results in the loss of some of these links. And that's really a rather
sad state of affairs. I mean, I do this a lot because I'm looking at tags and that type of thing
and I go to older shows and it says, see my thing on such and such and you click and it's dead long,
long, long ago because I'm looking at old old shows. And you think, I'm so sad that that's gone.
I just have a personal reaction to that that makes me very, very sad about it.
And just as an aside from that, I in researching some of my shows where I witter on about what I did
in the past 45, 50 years ago, trying to find references to any of the things I'm talking about.
It's incredibly hard because the bitrock has taken it or maybe they never were up there in the
first place. So really just to say, can we do something about this? That was what my note was about.
So Kevin Ahuka says, some degree this is unavoidable.
The thing about links that no longer work, all the people need to understand that all the pages
have links that no longer work. Yeah. That's true, that's true, but I don't know. I see a lot of people
these days just to make an analogy, collecting up old tools and stuff off eBay to sort that
somebody's clearing out of this and sell the old garage for an eBay. And I've got a few here,
my neighbour left, he's now died, but he moved away and he was a carpenter and he had a whole
work box full of tools, rusted to hell. And I've got some of them here that I haven't started yet.
Repairing them, getting them back to use. Have you subscribed to people doing that? It's gone.
My mechanic on YouTube. No, you've seen that channel. My mechanic.
Right, remind me to send you a link to that. My mechanic. Sounds good. It is absolutely awesome,
awesome, awesome, awesome. But anyway, back to this. The general principle is one that a lot of
people would appreciate, I guess. I'll just go through some of the comments from people first,
and then I'll give you my own personal opinion, which is one of the comments. Jason Estadge
says, my strategy of not providing show notes has paid off. No.
Good, good. I like it. Make me laugh. That too is asking for clarification before he disagrees with
those. I reckon I'm going to skip over mine for a minute. Look for Kevin. Yeah, okay, I have,
okay, I'll go over mine. Cause from my point of view, there's two aspects to this. We can't,
we can't be expected to keep everything on the internet. And that's fine. But if somebody,
there's, if somebody releases a show and says a link will be in the show notes, or I'm talking
about something and it's in the show notes, then it should be in the show notes. If it's part,
you have to remember that people who listen to this, this network that we're on here,
maybe it worked probably not now, but say imagine somebody driving
and delivering rubber duckies in the US, what do you call them, truckers? Truckers, what can I think of that word?
Okay, truckers, long distance truckers away from any base station and their entire access to the
episode is what's in the show notes of that episode. So there should be sufficient in the show notes
to support the show 100%. Additional extraneous information can be attached to the show as a link
to another site. That's fine. But from the point of view of the show, it should be in the show notes.
You're giving us an episode and it's like, and if the show notes for that are somewhere
are with the show, that's great because the whole bundle is the episode under a CC license.
But if you take half of that and say, Oh, the script is over here that I'm now talking about,
while you're polluting the license by putting it over there, because now once it's over there,
even though it's available and maybe available for 20 years, even though it's over there,
it still may not be under the same license that the show was released. So was it, was it released
under a Creative Commons CC by SA license, even though it's on your website, because I can't find
any license information on your website. So therefore, we now need to search your website. Is your
website license under that license? Am I allowed to take that show in or not? So my solution to this
is send us in proper show notes to support your show. If you say it's referenced in the show,
then reference it in the show. It's very, very simple. Very, very simple to a point as in
it's hard to define it. But if you're saying, well, if you want more information, then you can
get it on my blog. That's absolutely fine. Am I making sense there?
Yes, I think so. I think so. I've certainly subscribed to the view that an integral bundle,
if that makes any sense, is a highly desirable thing to produce, which is why I try to produce
such things myself. And also, I redesign the way things get put onto archive.org. So the entire
bundle gets. Yeah, exactly. We're perfect. Get put together and drop there. So if HBR has gone,
then you could still go and refer to it on archive.org. That was why.
So I actually should stick to the email, because that's what I was referring to. So I did an
episode on adjusting the height of an iron board. And it's a stupid episode. But I,
I discuss in that episode, there's going to be a picture in the show notes. Then that picture
should be submitted as part of your show. And it should be in the show notes.
Today with a techie episode back in 2005, Arngig did a show. And he has a link to his site there.
And I listened to his episode again, which is awesome, by the way. And
everything that he has in the show notes to that episode is sufficient. There's nothing in that show.
That would require you to go to the website. But going to the website helps. So today with a
techie was not specifically known for having super show notes, to be honest with you. But that show
did not need that show was self-standing because he explained everything that you needed in the
episode. But if you are interested, a full description and a visual cues were given in his
in his website, which yes, it might be no harm to take a PDF of that and stuff on the
archive.org bot. Then we're adding to our burden on as the janitors. Do you know what I mean?
Oh sure, sure, sure. Yeah. It was, that was part of my motivation in putting it forward. This
point, but I think I said that in the past, I managed to repair and quotes shows that where things
are gone missing by going to the way back machine and doing this stuff. But it's really quite a lot
of work. Yeah. And I went on to say about Kevin Orion show. He did a show on Firefox Updates,
which is an excellent balance of if you want to know what should it should not be in the show notes,
use that as a reference because there's enough on his website. And then he's got a blog post
that can support it. And if he sends us a PDF of that blog post, that would even be fine as well.
Lost and Bronx made a note there. And I'm disagreeing with Lost and Bronx, which I think must be the
first time I ever have disagreed with him. By my way of thinking there is no borrow weight upon us
as a community to deliver anything other than the historical experience to future listeners,
to whom the episode will per force be nothing but history. Anyway, I completely disagree with that.
Hacker Public Radio is dedicated to sharing knowledge. So there is absolutely a borrow weight on us
to provide the information in the show to each and every listener regardless of when they're here.
And I point you back to Iron Geek show on 2005. If he referenced something in there that was no
longer, that's still valid. He's still, we're still got Wireshark. We still got Ethernet
Rx. We still got things just because the show happens to be 15 years old.
Doesn't mean it's out of date. If you provide enough information in there to be able to recreate it,
good and well. Also, we're all using tools here that go back to
stuff in the 1960s. Commands, Grep, Said, Ock, Ed. These are all tools that we use day in day out.
They were all done when we were all, when Dave was a lad like it. So
in fairness, this stuff is going away. It's a very long time. Your definition of what relevant is
in material. The show, if you're releasing a show, everything that you need, it's your choice,
what you just define as everything, but I made it just agree with you. But if you're giving us
this show, you're breaking the whole moral part of it if I need to, if you only give me half of it,
and everything I need to support that show isn't available. I'm offling on now, Dave. This is
where you should stop me. It's, yeah, it is a difficult one. I mean, I have a
have the particular view that I think that the maintaining some sort of
timelessness of this resource is a highly desirable thing because I think somewhere out in the
future, people coming back to look at this sort of stuff and saying what did these guys get on up
to, back in those long, long ago days, finding all the holes will be pretty disappointed.
And to me, that's a sad thing. I take the point that we have to ask the question, is that what
we're about? Are we, are we trying to build a perpetual inflammation source and I guess it's,
it's, it's, it's, it's a valid question. Does that? Yeah, I think it is, and you're right,
it would be nice to be able to do that, but we can't, but within all practicalities, what we can do
is give this as a unit. And if you've got enough in the unit to be able to do it then fine.
For example, if you're referencing a major distro like Ubuntu or Debian or whatever,
then you don't need to supply the documentation because that's probably more than likely
going to be archived or you'll be able to find a CD of that. But if you're talking about a script
that you've written that is available nowhere else and that you discuss it in the show, then it
needs to be included in the show. At least in the upload and we can host that then on HPR,
if we host it on HPR, we know what the license is or we make sure the license is compatible
with the entire thing and we can put that on archive.org because remember, even though archive.org
scrapes the internet, it just takes one person to put in a, a robots.dex file on that domain and
then that's gone. All that information from that entire domain is gone. Admittedly, they will never
archive your website ever again. So very few people do that. But archive.org is
unless the license is explicitly stated, it can be removed at any time. And that's all I have to
say about that yet. Yeah, yeah. It's um, I sort of started off this discussion and then I went
into, uh, into lockdown because something got to me that, uh, I was, I'm in the, in the vulnerable
group, but I catch it and there's good chance I ain't going to exist no more. So I got a little bit
sort of, uh, help, um, and sort of lost the plot with it. So anyway, that's what happened.
No, it's a, it's a, it's a good one because it brought up several things there for me like, um,
just a one liner to point to your website. That's, that's not sufficient. If,
that's not sufficient on some shows, on other shows, it is sufficient because you covered, uh,
like the Lost and Brunk are, um, not the, the, the, the R&G show, he discussed everything in it.
So the link to his episode was supplementary material, whereas the Linux in laws.deu1
is not sufficient because they're discussing the actual script that's in the show notes
on their site and not on, on the HBR website. So, um, yeah, we'll see how that goes.
It just makes more work because we now need to, from your point of view, you want to archive,
from my point of view, I now need to check, is the copyright correct?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Anyway, just upload to show notes. Please, people. Thank you. We move on.
Yeah.
Uh, let's see, case of disappearing links. Do you want to do this?
Is it the same thing?
It is, it is, it's, um, most of us, uh, doing, uh, doing a change of subject, I think.
Interview from Fostem, Amanda Brook asked for some help on, um, the, uh, some coronavirus interviews
that she wants to have and was somebody available to help. And Kevin, we're sure, offered to help.
Uh, tattoo, then organ, actually, I just read it out. Hey, everybody on the HBR list,
I don't know what you're up to right now, but if you're stuck at home like much of the world,
I thought it would be nice diversion to play a little dungeon in the dragon.
My schedule is pretty open, but I imagine a little point in trying to come up at a time.
So, uh, essentially, I'm not planning recording these sessions, it's purely a social offer
in an attempt to provide relief from the global stress at the moment.
And those D&D times are on Wednesday nights, and Wednesdays in the evening and Thursdays at night,
my time, UTC. That's, that's not very good, is it?
Uh, when the moon rises over the HBR, that's the time it is. Hold on a second, I'll find out what time it
just is. Well, one of them is that, uh, 1830 to 2030 UTC. No, that's, uh, CET. So forget about that.
Okay, the days and times are 16, 1630 to 1830 UTC on a Wednesday, Wednesday, 1630, Wednesday,
1630. The other one is that Thursday, 2000 to 2200. Thursday, 2000 to 2200.
I don't know if you can still join those, but, uh, my son is joined and is really, really,
really enjoying the, that's really nice. Fantastic. And Taj announcing the hopefully only COVID-19
self distancing work stream. The idea is to have a live chat on the mobile server during a
portion of the day for people to tune into as they work or avoid work. The intent is to treat it
like the HBR New Year's stream and record it for release in HBR, because less faces, we all
all can issue. However, that doesn't count as a show. My plan is to join the room at 2000 EST each day
and start a recording. That's sorry, 1212. Why Dave? What is going wrong? 1212 EST every day, 1200
Eastern Standard Time. Anything else worth mentioning on there? I don't think so. Um, that's,
that's pretty much all for the mailing list. The events calendar, well, everything's cancelled,
so I guess we can skip a look at that, yeah. And, uh, tags and summaries, I'd like to just
highlight the fact that we got 28 updates over the past month. And we had updates from CRBS,
new hosts. Thank you very much. Windigo, who's a stalwart and send stuff in all the time,
Archie's 72. Thank you very much. And some guy called Dave Morris to the fuser. So,
28, I think, is a, is our highest score, if anybody's keeping records. So that's excellent.
Really, I'm really using that missing tags, um, page a lot for finding episodes myself.
Yeah, I know. Now, and each of those stuff is really a handy resource.
I am convinced. It was in, my sort of thought was doing that would be an interesting
prelude to doing something similar to that in a less static site. And, um, yeah, it seems to
seem to be quite, quite helpful thing. I have still some shores in here that I haven't come to
none. Dave, Dave, Dave. Okay. Anything else? I think that's it. I think I went on a bit of a round
there, Dave. Well, you know, yeah, if it, if it's something you need to say, then
go on. As long as it doesn't offend, I don't see what it would then move for it.
Um, yeah, because the thing is, we're not asking people to, on one hand, I'm not asking
people, you don't have to submit your notes, but it really, really helps. Even if it's just
bullet points, it really helps. But if you look at some of the tattoos, where there's just a
one liner, the one about the, um, about the game he did, it's sufficient. A one liner is sufficient
in that case, it's sufficient. But if it is something that you're, um, that you refer to in the
show notes and that you say, you especially say it'll be in the show notes, then that's kind of,
it should be part of the thing. Anyway, I'll, I'll shut up. And now I'll be cringy for the next month
wondering, do people should I have edited? Should I not? And you, you'll get comments on the,
on the next community news. Exactly. Yeah, I don't like controversy.
Right, I need to go and tidy the house, Steve. Oh, yes. And so do I. Okay, tune in.
Tomorrow for another exciting episode of Hacker Public Radio. All right, stay healthy, Dave.
Thanks, bye everyone. See you soon. Cheers.
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