hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr1911.txt

Episode: 1911
Title: HPR1911: Thoughts on GUI v CLI and the best distro
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1911/hpr1911.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 11:04:10

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This is HPR episode 1911 entitled Thoughts on GUI VCLI and the best distro.
It is posted I can't fall in and in about 15 minutes long.
The summer is Thoughts on which desktop to use and which GUI to use.
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Hi everybody my name is Ken Fallon and you're listening to another episode of Hacker
Public Radio.
Today I want to deal with the old nuggets of should we use a GUI for new users or how to
promote Linux for the desktop or is the desktop ready for Linux?
No it's not.
It's too complicated.
We should have won.
We should have more.
We should have multiple.
All the questions that you hear coming up time and time again on Linux Podcasts since
the dawn of the concept of Linux Podcasts.
I've been listening to this and I'm a self.
It's a basically it's a journey that everybody goes through and you think about this.
Because your own experience with the operation systems develops on your own journey.
You go from one can go from being highly enthusiastic to being very negative about it to being
whatever.
This is basically a synopsis of my views in response to this topic coming up on Linux
So I thought I'd record a quick show and give you my musings on the topic and feel free
to record a show and give me some feedback on your opinions of my musings.
So I guess GUI earned not GUI promote.
Yeah you got to give GUI's to new users.
Well to be honest I think non-tech users really don't care.
And yeah my wife's been using Linux for as long as we've been together.
And she basically I know she'd switched to Windows in the morning.
She just doesn't care.
And you know she has all the things to be worried about.
The computer's stable.
It's fine.
Not to say that she would switch to Linux windows in the morning but you know just doesn't doesn't bother her.
For most non-tech users they've managed to operate forms, TVs and tablets as they iterate through
their UI changes down through the years.
And there'll be a link in the show notes to just a link of the different GUIs that there have been.
And you know if you go back and compare the GUI of Windows 3.1 to Windows 10, you know you'll be amazed at basically the changes.
And teaching anyone a GUI is basically a bit of a waste of time.
Now especially if you think about like the moving from Symbian to Android to iOS.
And you know get on any boss train anywhere in the world and people are glued to their phones.
And you can't really tell me that those people have called up you know their local help person to figure it out.
They've just figured it out themselves.
And they do.
And you know it's not just limited to phones.
It's televisions you know we've gone from you press the up you know type in the numbers to press next channel,
back a channel, TVs you know right through into DVRs where you got recordings,
into set up boxes with all sorts of stuff to smart TVs, Netflix interfaces and people seem to manage fine.
And you know also think about the whole move paradigm shift of the apples and the apple iPad.
And then all the tablets that come along admittedly like there's been a lot,
it was kind of an obvious change when smartphones come around that you would have a larger device.
But again people seem to manage it absolutely fine.
That is everybody except tech savvy users.
I can understand this issue.
And that is basically it comes down to you know the fear of not being the expert of what you have.
You've been an expert at getting printers to work by pointing a clicking here doing this, doing the next thing.
And then suddenly you go to another operating system or whatever and you're not really the expert anymore.
So the answer to that of course is that you need to be more of an expert.
Basically you need to learn more stuff and that's always hard.
I'll kind of summarize this, my view on GUIs like this.
If you teach somebody to use a GUI they can use that computer.
If you teach somebody to use the command line they can use any computer.
Now think of the amount of GUIs that have changed over time.
This happens across the board everywhere.
We've already mentioned windows.
It happens in Mac.
It has happened in KDE.
It's happened in Android.
It happens in Nome.
It happens on Nokia even.
Nokia phones.
GUIs change.
So much going back to our goal.
Just go back to all the episodes of a hookers series on Libra Office.
And some of the original screenshots have changed slightly.
If you compare the screenshots that are in some of the early episodes to what they are there now,
then you will see differences.
Things have moved around for the better probably.
But the issue with this is that the documentation doesn't always follow.
And that's so documentation is not updated.
Screenshots remain old.
People on help desk forums.
So if you're helping somebody and put a screenshot on a forum,
you've helped that person now, but in actual fact later on,
it becomes a bit of an issue.
It becomes a frustrating fact for people because they will be referred to that forum post
on how to print, how to do an export in Excel or Visio.
Is one of the things on my own website.
And I've had comments that it doesn't work anymore.
So you need to constantly go back and maintain it because this new version has come out.
And things have moved around.
So I've edited that post three or four times as the versions of Visio has changed.
And some of my posts where I run things via the command line,
I still get comments now where people go, yes, this worked on this version of Linux,
this worked on this, this worked on this, without me having to update the post,
simply because it's done on the command line.
The command line also gets over the issues of different paradigms.
You have GNOME, KDE, all the different variants.
Yes, doing that, explaining via the command line,
you have the lowest common denominator for to hit all different people.
And you could even something like Cops that you can do with the command line,
you can explain it to different people even on different OSs how it works.
And it's not fair to say that, oh, we should all be working using the one GUI.
It's simply actually a ridiculous statement because people like to do things different ways.
And even if they don't, people with incentives to sell more devices,
will make changes, will make things more slicker, more modern.
And this is the reason logos change.
Companies change the logos from time to time because it's considered more modern,
even though the underlying operating system, the underlying things that they're doing haven't changed,
will still bring in a new, fresh UI.
That's why we have new, better packaging on a loaf of bread.
Basically, how has a loaf of bread changed?
I mean, additives and all the rest aside.
But presuming the local bakers are the bread makers that you purchased.
The loaf of bread packaging changes over time, so GUIs are a bit like that.
So here's the thing.
So that's the bad news.
GUIs change.
The good news is the command line more or less remains constant.
It was reading Klaatu's book about the UNIX, how to.
He found a UNIX book from 1982.
And it contained commands that were still familiar today.
Change directory, rename, or M.
All commands that you use on a daily basis.
And that was for an operating system that was already 10 years old.
So, you know, that was 46 years ago.
These commands were developed.
And right now, there are millions of devices out there that these commands work on.
And I guess in 46 years' time, they will continue to work.
So if you're planning or working in the tech industry,
you're really going to need to learn stuff about the command line.
And the benefit of that, of course, is that you think,
you know, understanding of how computers are working.
And it's an investment.
Yes, it is.
Absolutely.
It's an investment.
If you have questions, you know, if you think, hey, I need help with stuff.
Send us in here to HBR a list of requested topics of things that you're being confused about.
That's what we're here for.
Well, that's what I'm here for at least.
Because I think my time is better spent recording up so it's helping people.
Then, you know, just nendless chatter about whether Linux is ready for the desktop or not.
The simple fact of the matter is Linux is ready for the desktop.
And I include the link in the show notes.
For the market rate of Android phones, the most successful operating system ever,
anywhere, ever, more devices ever than anything else.
It's phenomenal.
And that runs Linux.
But it's Android.
Yes, and Linux actually Android is Linux.
Runs a Linux kernel.
There you go.
That's what Richard Storm almost on about.
It's, you know, when we were all going, oh, he does want to know about GNU Linux.
And GNU Linux is not Android.
But it is Chrome OS.
And Chrome OS right now is shipping more units than in the educational market.
Then Apple is for the first time.
And I'll include a link to that article on the show note.
Apple who has entrenched salespeople dedicated to supplying the educational market in the US.
Android is selling more devices for strange.
And that's a straight-up Linux operating system running GNU tools.
So basically my summary is don't worry about it.
Just find out what works for you.
Find out what works and use it.
Find out what works for your family and use it.
Some people advise running the same operating system yourself as you intend to give to your family.
I will advise doing that as well.
But, you know, my mother-in-law happily ran Linux Mint for quite a long time.
But then, you know, she just switched to using the nightpad overnight.
And she's as happy as Larry.
And she can sit outside, read her paper, check her email.
And you know, I can't argue with that.
I really can't.
Yes, it's a proprietary operating system or whatever.
But she gets her newspaper and all the rest of it.
My nephew recently got her an Android tablet, so maybe she'll switch to Android.
But there you go.
As far as if you're listening to this show, then I think you're interested in tech.
And as far as it goes, try and learn as much as you can.
And if you're learning stuff, it kind of makes sense to learn stuff that's going to be around in five years.
So, learning the command line is a good investment.
And again, as I said, it's a required investment.
If your job is focused on pointing and clicking interfaces,
without understanding what's going on underneath your destined for, you know,
the best you can really hope for is a first or second line support position.
If you understand what's going on underneath that,
you would be expected to understand what is going on behind the UIs.
And think to yourself, all of them, clicking this button here, what's actually going on.
Can I go in and see the processes that's running?
Is this running script underneath?
If it's on a web page, it's definitely running some other command underneath.
If it's on a Linux system, it's definitely running another command underneath.
So, well, more than likely running another command underneath.
So, there you go. That's pretty much my thoughts on it.
Again, Linux is a journey, as we all know.
I've gone myself from promoting Linux as much as I can,
to basically taking a step back and looking at the people next to me
and going, that person would really benefit from knowing how to use setup and grip.
And I've found quite a lot of guys,
I'm thinking specifically of certain people here, so I'm now using the term guys,
although I tend to use the term guys in a non-gender fashion.
So, you forgive me for that, I hope.
But, through the use of setup and grip, those people tend to be using servers a lot more and now,
quite a lot of the number of running Linux servers are at home.
Come in in the morning and go, hey, I was doing this,
I wonder now you do that, let me just give them the answer.
Showing that down people's faces, making them force them to use it.
It's always kind of a negative, it's a lot easier if people come to with themselves.
Raspberry Pis are also way of doing that, always have a few of them knocking around your desk,
lo and them out.
And I have one requirement that if I lo and them out, I want that device back.
It means people go to, they do a little bit of research online, find out which one is best,
and they buy a pie and they buy a case and they buy an SD card and they have a look at the hardware
and they go, oh, this is cool device, and I'm going to connect it up to this,
and I also bought something else that I've been wanting to do for years,
and suddenly they're coming in and they're learning C, they're learning to get into Arduino stuff,
and all in all, you're increasing people's knowledge, slowly but surely, and all this stuff,
I mean, learning to program Arduino, they're learning to program C,
so if they're looking in the source code of some stuff, it's not going to be a scary anymore.
So, there you go, bit of a ramble, I must say, bit of a ramble,
but it's early, it's Sunday morning, the trucks have come back, I've woken up too early,
and now it's time to get the kids out of bed.
All right, tune in tomorrow for a less rambling episode,
or maybe we'll be more rambling episode of Hacker Public Radio.
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