348 lines
38 KiB
Plaintext
348 lines
38 KiB
Plaintext
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Episode: 896
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Title: HPR0896: 2011-2012 Hacker Public Radio New Year's Eve Part 6/8 (The Unix Fight and Thank You Kevin)
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0896/hpr0896.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-08 04:29:39
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---
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we're in the comments.
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Can can somebody please Pimp Unix for a little while? Is it canoe Unix? Okay, actually here's something. I did try. Oh wait, this isn't. I was gonna say I tried the Debian Hurd kernel, the Debian herd build, but actually that's totally not relevant here. I heard you.
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Reg, you want to talk about the herd instead? No, no. I mean, I always run a BSD. Right now I have Dragonfly BSD on my laptop, the laptop I have from work, but I honestly don't. And you can download the canoe, a lot of the canoe libraries and stuff in BSD.
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Honestly, to be completely honest, I do like BSD. I have found that it's somewhat lagging compared to say the Linux community, some of the latest software and whatnot, but most everything is available, whether it be in ports or now I forget with the net BSD and the package.
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Package source, sorry, whether it's ports or package source, it can compile down and it does have about 20 or 30,000. I think about 25,000. Anyway, I found that BSD. I always run it. I do like it, but I understand that that some people may not certain hardware have. It doesn't run. I mean, I can't install it at all. It craps out right away.
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Other things that run solid as a rock. I'm just saying in an open source community with open source software, I'm surprised it doesn't get near as much mention as it could.
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I'm going to throw a little skifter into the deck since we're all going around fine and well tonight. I'm going to throw a little skifter into the deck.
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I mean, I'm thinking of, I mean, you're saying that compiling for BSD and compiling, and I'm thinking of like mumble compiling the latest mumble for in my case, so I'm using crunch playing on my netbook here.
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What would the situation be like if it was one format, one, so you can pile one format, one package and you can download it and you can install it on Slack where you can install it on Debian, you can install it on Fedora or any BSD.
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What would that be like compared to what is now where you don't have a choice. You either wait for it appearing on the repos of your own distribution or you can pile it by source by hand.
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What would that be like? It'd be less efficient and I don't think I would personally like it. I mean, you can already do that with certain like some of the games off of humble indie bundle, for instance, you just download like this little binary.
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I shouldn't say little this huge binary and you can just click it and it runs on your system and it's I mean, it works, but I don't I don't see the advantage in any way at all. In fact, I rather dislike it.
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I have a works that way. It's horrendously inefficient. Yeah, I mean, I get the appeal, but I don't at the end of the day, I don't want.
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Now, funnily enough, that's how I run bundled board on crunch back as it is unpacked into slash O T O P T even and run it from there and have the menu linked up to there.
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And that's how I run it from there and it works fine. I dare say it's not as efficient as it would be running from the repos, but frankly, the repos are old and they're also, I mean, I, I know it's a branding thing.
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I know the reason behind it, but I really hate the unbranded ice dove and ice weasel are really absolute tester.
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I just seem to be really petted. I understand that why, but it just seems so petted in me. But yeah, that's a great issue. I run bundled board quite happily from slash O P T.
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I have some breaking news from our IRC chat room right now. Crayon has just purchased the domain name cc tracker dot org and is going to point that at cobertus project as soon as the transaction clues.
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Yeah, it looks like your first donation just came in cobertus. Of course, you'll probably main control maintain control of the domain and start, you know, insisting that you do certain things on the project.
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Yeah, that's exactly right. That's my plan. And once, you know, once I loll everyone into a false sense of security and everyone's using it, um, yeah, replace it with just an ad site, knew it.
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And then I'll change project name.
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Well, that's why that's why cobertus asked you what the name was going to be because I was going to grab a domain forward or whatever.
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I think we're talking and you're saying that it didn't really have a name and that you didn't, I think you said you didn't like the name cc tracker or was that this or where they said they didn't.
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But I figure since it was there, we might as well get it anyway.
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Yeah, that was that the initial plan was we don't want to be one of the projects that are endlessly discussing names, we really did not want to do that.
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Fortunately, I've had quite a few things on my mind between arranging that and initially putting that out.
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And then now to the point where it's kind of not really my project, I hear what I mean anymore.
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I've not put as much into it as I really should.
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I'm glad it's still alive and I'm still involved with it. But yeah, we did want to try and come up with a better name.
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But that's as good as any for now. Honestly, it says good as any.
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I think it's a great name because it very clearly displays the point of the project cc grave commons and it's it's tracker.
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It's perfect.
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I think it's settled. They're already about a domain name.
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Yeah.
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Well, what an argument now, boys.
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Is it is red?
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The name is that Unix Clubhouse?
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Yeah.
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That's your name.
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Yeah, yeah. I'm red exorcist, but I use Unix Clubhouse because that's my domain name.
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That's right. I have a question for you. Have you thought about being involved in any of the voice acting that's going on right now?
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I don't know what you mean voice acting, but you know, let me just say that I do listen to Packer Public Radio, but I have not submitted a episode yet.
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But I do believe I probably will in January or February.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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When Eddie Kay or this thing of ours, Pokey was on this thing of ours.
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I think you have a fantastic voice.
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I think it'd be really cool to hear you in one of the audio dramas.
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Sure.
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Sure.
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When they're doing a James Bond sequel, a James Bond story.
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Oh, man.
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That's great.
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It is.
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Yeah.
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He sounds like a drunk.
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You sound just like a Scottsman.
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Oh, sucks.
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Only when he's drunk.
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I'm going to speed him up and make him sound sober.
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Unix or Redge, whatever you are.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I have to agree with you on the BSD quote unquote lagging.
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And I don't know that it's fair to say that they're lagging because I don't know that that's what they're doing.
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They're concentrating on certain things.
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And I think that when someone, for instance, like me tries to use a BSD for multimedia, that might not be exactly what they haven't mind quite yet.
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And what I end up doing is installing a whole bunch of basically evolve a Linux code anyway to get everything working on the on the BSD system.
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Free BSD is what I was running for a while.
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And so I always kind of felt like, you know, I'm kind of I'm clearly not doing stuff that they're really, really concentrating on right now.
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And it just doesn't really seem to make that much sense for me to be using free BSD over just a normal Linux distribution.
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And so I kind of default back to Linux anyway, plus I feel like that idealistically that more aligns with my my my goals, like the whole GPL thing.
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So I kind of like to support support that.
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But I think BSD code and and what you know the stable basis that they're creating and some of the file system advances that specifically drag and fly BSD is making.
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I think all that's really cool, but I think it's they're very focused, I think, would you agree or disagree?
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I know exactly where you're coming from because being a Linux user, you know, right now I'm running after sitting on my two main machines and on my laptop.
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I run a dragonfly.
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I always seem to have a BSD and I always do run it.
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And I always get involved with it for like a week or two, but then I drop back and I always seem to primarily run a some version of Linux because, you know, it has the latest software.
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It seems to have more it seems to recognize more the kernel wise or whatever, but, you know, I do like BSD.
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I've taken on both the work. I have two servers in work that one's running BSD and one's running Linux, you know, I think anyway, you know, I do like them both, but what I don't understand, you know, I've made packages in BSD, you know, local packages.
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I've run ports is very simple.
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It's honestly to tell you the truth, I believe people would be very surprised at how simple it is. It's easier to run ports than it would be to, you know, compile regular source, you know, one of the Linux system.
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But it just seems like there's such a difference, you know, two completely different worlds and one doesn't, I understand exactly what you're saying because one does not seem to have the same goals or anywhere near the same goals as, you know, the BSD community.
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I don't, I don't think I understand the BSD community. I do run BSD. I like it. I understand how solid it is, but honestly, I think I don't understand, you know, what motivates and tell you truth running drag and fly.
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Hammer is honestly one of the best file systems I've come across. I mean, I think it's better than butter. You know, I think it's better than ZFS.
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You know, anyway, you know, I don't understand that the prints and why BSD seems to never come up in the links community, even though, you know, you can compile genuine tools and stuff like that won't be a student stuff.
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I just don't understand why it almost seems like windows comes up more than BSD is in the links community.
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I know why I don't talk about it, but I can only speak for me.
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You know, I remember when I first was introduced to Linux, I'm starting to to look around that. I mean, you can't really look at what is Linux because Linux is a distribution and what is a distribution where there's a boom to, there's Debian, there's Fedora.
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There's you name it, there's thousands of distributions, I mean, even just to top 20 or top 30 or whatever.
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And look at that. I mean, I remember at the time when I was still a Windows user, I was looking at what they go for a more traditional Unix, which was at the time free, free BSD, a more sort of official if you want Unix, a more authentic Unix or a Unix based, which was Linux.
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And I ended up with, oh, I think it was PC Linux or less, but the point is I was looking at free BSD compared to Linux.
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And I don't know, something made me go the Linux, I don't know what it was, but it's just odd that something that's more traditional Unix based has seemingly lost out in the sort of public perception or the free software perception.
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To Linux, is this strange? I don't know what that is.
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Just hit the nail right on the head. You've just said what I was going to say in that the reason that I don't really talk about Unix a lot and don't bother with Unix a lot is because it's not free software.
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It's open source software. And there is, again, I'm going to say this is political, but not in the same sense that I was talking before as right versus left.
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But the two sides of the political coin is that open source software is not necessarily free software and Unix is not software.
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Yeah, I like Unix. I like playing around with other Unisys. I like BSD. I like to play around Salaris, open Salaris, etc.
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Yeah, it's really cool. And I love the ideals of being honest.
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The best is the only you're just kind of real bad to talk over you.
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Oh, okay. I was saying that I like the Unisys, but like Poki says, the cause that I believe in, the greater cause is Linux is GNU Linux.
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And that's what I choose to talk about because that's what I feel, I guess going back to what Pythman said, it needs the marketing and they are more community based too.
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I mean, Salaris, a lot of the Salaris guys to me seem to be more about like the big server farms BSD people, they strike me as academic slash big server farms.
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Linux has a community. They're out there trying to promote the Linux as a computing platform for the people, capital T, capital P, the people.
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So I think that was why when I heard about open Salaris, I heard from, I mean, this is, I mean, I could just be going on on perception rather than reality.
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But what I heard, what I picked up was perception is reality.
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Yeah, fair point. But what I heard was Unix is dead as far as people want wanting to contribute to it.
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So members not being paid to do the volunteers doing it. Unix is dead. It's extinct. It's gone in the way of the dodo.
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People want to contribute to Unix or sort of Linux. And the only way that Salaris is going to get that is to open source and compete directly with that.
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We had no choice but to open source Salaris and Salaris and make it to compete with Linux because Linux was getting all of the mind share, all of the developers share of the attention share.
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People were talking about Linux of podcasts, blog posts, forums, sites, all about Linux, no one cares about Unix.
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And the Salaris open Salaris was an attempt to to tap into that because they were being bled dry. I mean, no one was interested at all in their product.
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Even if the open source that no one was interested in their product because it was Unix rather than Linux.
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So I don't know. And as far as I'm aware, open Salaris is no dead. I mean, there's some projects that came from it, but open Salaris as such as a project as dead as far as I'm aware.
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I think I think essentially you're right. And I think that the selling point and the thing that really matters is exactly what the new people have been saying for all and the creative comments people for that matter.
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But specifically for software can you people want to share and they want to have their they want to have their contribute contributions recognized and appreciated and used.
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And the traditional Unisys don't really encourage that the way that Linux does I submitted a port.
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Well, that's anecdotal. So it doesn't matter. Point being that Linux really, really encourages people to contribute. Whereas I don't see that as much happening elsewhere.
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Sorry, sorry, sorry.
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Again, I just want to comment on open Indiana where there's a group of guys there that that have open sourced, you know, the Salaris kernel. They're trying to make it good.
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So as best they can, you know, on distro watching everything, Bruce is still around, you know, they're really pushing, but you know what isn't not a lot of people's running it and not a lot of people tried it. It's not their fault that people haven't tried it.
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This is the obscurity that I'm kind of that's where I live. I always deal with the obscure and I always wonder why it never. I mean, why does somebody become popular and why does something else not?
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Let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let
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let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let
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Let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let
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Let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let
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Let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let
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Let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let
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let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let Him let me let me let Him let me let me let Him let me let Him let Him let me let Him let me樣
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change that image and change that image a test a test a test a test a test a
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Linux is the king basically. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is
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main share is that the Solaris project looked at what people were wanting to
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put in to of their own free time and people wanted to contribute to Linux.
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They wanted to make packages for Linux. They wanted to update drivers for Linux.
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They did not want to do the same thing for Unix. They did not want to do things for
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the same things for Solaris because of the licensing. Now, the licensing as a huge part,
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as just as a few of you have just talked about, is the fact that there's got to be regular Solaris.
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It was open Solaris that lets people contribute at all, but go ahead.
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The point is that people are when they put in their free time, they want to know
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that it's going to be free software. They want to get that guarantee and
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in the license and law that some corporation like Apple isn't going to come along and say,
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oh, we'll have that work and we'll just turn it into something proprietary and we'll sell it
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and whatever and we'll change it in our own way. So not only will your version be incompatible
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you won't make a bean out of it and you'll make a fortune out of it. They want to prevent that.
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They've seen that exploitation and they want to prevent that. The GNU license prevents that.
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So there's there's always different contributors for people wanting to contribute to Linux
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where they do not want to contribute to Unix because of license involved. It's not saying that it's
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dead. It's not saying it's irrelevant. It's just saying that that's the reality and because
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people don't want to contribute then the Open Solaris project or the Solaris project was really
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struggling and Open Indiana was really struggling against what people wanted to contribute to.
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I have a question, right? I know next to nothing about BSD other than
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reading about it, the very little that I know. So what would be a compelling reason?
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What do you think is the BSD killer feature? For a guy who honestly doesn't know.
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Ports. That's... Ports is good. We're a package source either way.
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But other than what any of that is. Yeah, it's the old way. We typically download binaries,
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whether it be maker or maker. Whatever happens to be... Oh, geez, I forget right now.
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Anyway, we can download the binaries. There's maybe 20,000 packages. They may not be as up-to-date
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as a bleeding edge like arch or something that I'm lying here or an actress. But it will be as
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up-to-date as something like a dead being or whatever. It's not a lot of difference. Which is my
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first comment as to why is it 90% Linux, at least in the communities that I seem to be listening to,
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you know, 90% Linux and 10% or less BSD. It seems like it's never even mentioned. And I think
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it maybe it should be 70, 30 or 60, 40 or something. That's what I initially brought up. I didn't
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really want to get involved with the Open Solaris thing. But, you know, I did bring up Open Indiana
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because, you know, this is open source now. And they are a group of guys that have taken the kernel
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and they've developed the packages and everything. And they're following along in the same
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new type situation, whatever. It's a minor difference in license. If you're a developer or,
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obviously, you know, you're coming from a user standpoint. But if you're a developer,
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I don't necessarily want to, you know, any change I make, I've got to, I've got to, I don't want to
|
||
|
|
get into the exact details of the canoe license, one, two, or three or whatever. But, you know,
|
||
|
|
there's certain restrictions upon that license. And if I just want to take a picture and use it,
|
||
|
|
or if I just want to take a piece of code and use it, yes, Apple can use it. Sure enough,
|
||
|
|
that company can use it and say, you know, whatever and make changes to it, you know. But, you know,
|
||
|
|
I can use it too. And there's nobody stopping, you know, have you seen Paralympics?
|
||
|
|
Sure. I brought that up. But Paralympics is like an Apple Club. But, you know, you can take
|
||
|
|
that code and use it however you see fit without worrying about, you know, possibly, you know,
|
||
|
|
giving tribute to whoever wrote this piece of it back in whatever date and, you know, uploading
|
||
|
|
back to this source and whatever. I just see that I like them both. I use them both, but I see
|
||
|
|
that Linux and at least in the areas that, you know, on the internet that I seem to roam around in,
|
||
|
|
it's like 9010. And I was just wondering why it's not 7030 or 6040.
|
||
|
|
So, Raj, this is, maybe I'm speaking with a half of a lot of people, maybe I'm just talking
|
||
|
|
about ours because I'm drunk. But when you're saying that people can take the code, I mean,
|
||
|
|
if you do something under a BSD license, you create some protocol or something under a BSD
|
||
|
|
license and say Apple or anyone else can take that, then what's the start of them making that
|
||
|
|
the norm, making their own proprietary changes to that and making that the norm? You can still use it.
|
||
|
|
Of course, you can still use it, but it won't be with those proprietary changes, so it won't
|
||
|
|
be compatible with what the mainstream is. If they turn it into the mainstream, you won't be
|
||
|
|
compatible. And there's no way you can be compatible without reverse engineering it. And of course,
|
||
|
|
if you're reverse engineering it, you're breaking a law. And there's no reason for the company,
|
||
|
|
if it's Apple or whoever else, to make those changes that they made, make them available,
|
||
|
|
because they don't want to make them available. They want you to buy an Apple product so that you
|
||
|
|
can get that compatibility. Well, in that case, you just don't, you don't use that product. I mean,
|
||
|
|
but I think we're talking about two separate question, three separate questions. There's what
|
||
|
|
Pythman music just asked, which is what's the compelling reason to use BSD? And then the two questions
|
||
|
|
that seem to be banding about is do we want to promote BSD or do we like, do we respect BSD and
|
||
|
|
think that it's good code? So the yes, BSD is great code. And yes, it's a cool project. And so
|
||
|
|
is elumos and opened the Indiana and stuff like that. But no, I'm not going to spend my time
|
||
|
|
promoting those as much as I do on GNU Linux, because GNU Linux is something that I know that I
|
||
|
|
can invest in and that I will always see a return on. That was a very good distillation of the subject.
|
||
|
|
Thank you. I did try the Pythman. I would say that the compelling reason in my humble opinion
|
||
|
|
would be the port system, because that means basically that you can compile software code
|
||
|
|
on your computer. You get all of the different optimizations for your computer in theory.
|
||
|
|
And you're, you know, you're compiling from source code. You're not downloading a binary and
|
||
|
|
running someone else's generic compilation of that software. And then there's a certain feeling
|
||
|
|
in BSD. I think it's more than a feeling, but it's a very, it's sticking true. It's staying true
|
||
|
|
to the very traditional way of unix of doing things. But then I get that same feeling and that same
|
||
|
|
kind of sensibility with Slackware, where it's all shell script based and stuff like that. So I,
|
||
|
|
again, I don't really, I don't see the advantage personally. Looking from the outside, I mean,
|
||
|
|
the only thing I've tried to install at any BSD was before I first managed to install Linux.
|
||
|
|
But from what I understood at the time, I could be wrong, but from what I understood at the time
|
||
|
|
was when you install the port system, the packaging system of BSD, as such that you install
|
||
|
|
the separate libraries, that in that program needs you install that in a separate sort of a
|
||
|
|
place, so that you can install conflicting things. You're not, they're sharing libraries.
|
||
|
|
So if I'm trying to install something that needs GTK 3, and it says, well, you can't install that
|
||
|
|
because you've got other programs that need this library, and it's a GTK 2 version,
|
||
|
|
they're not compatible, so you can't install them. If BSD doesn't have that issue, because you have
|
||
|
|
multiple versions, you have a different version of each library installed along with the program.
|
||
|
|
So that as far as my understanding will be here.
|
||
|
|
That's not necessarily the case there. I know what you're referring to, it's how PCBSD handles
|
||
|
|
their packaging system, so each individual PBI, I believe it's PBI packaging, it'll download it to
|
||
|
|
actually a local directory within, and then you run it from that directory and the ideas
|
||
|
|
you could have, depending on what application it has its own directory, and it can run all kinds
|
||
|
|
of different libraries or whatever, but the regular free BSD, unconfigured, not PCBSD, and Dragonfly,
|
||
|
|
and NetBSD, and OpenBSD, don't necessarily carry the same thing, but it can be configured to do that,
|
||
|
|
but it doesn't necessarily, it's more like a Linux situation where the library directories
|
||
|
|
are the library directories, and if you conflict their issues and stuff, ports is kind of the way
|
||
|
|
they're moving away from, they're moving to binary packages also, but actually when you download
|
||
|
|
a BSD, you know, regular free BSD and OpenBSD, you separately download the port system and install,
|
||
|
|
I think it's user ports, depending on your distro or whatever. I even call it distro, it's not necessarily
|
||
|
|
called distro, I'm not promoting BSD and saying this or that, because like I said, I got two Linux
|
||
|
|
machines here, and to tell you the truth, I don't use the laptop that much, but I was just wondering
|
||
|
|
why it was like a 9010 as opposed to a 7030 or a 6040, and I got a fair answer, you know,
|
||
|
|
that's reasonable enough, I'm not sitting here saying, oh, BSD, this or that, you know, I'm a
|
||
|
|
lazy user, I use links, I like the GNU license, one, two, and three, I like the BSD license, you know,
|
||
|
|
I'm just, and I use obscure software, I'm a devil's advocate, I kind of throw the opposite out
|
||
|
|
there, and that's just me, you know, and honestly, you know, I know it was mentioned earlier about
|
||
|
|
you know, an aggregate or whatever, I think people, just me, that I produce a podcast, and I could
|
||
|
|
care less if I have any listener, you know, which, which is the case. Hey, Rich.
|
||
|
|
Yeah, yeah, but I have one or two listeners, but that's about it, and that's what I do, but yeah,
|
||
|
|
yeah, yeah, go ahead. Hey, Rich, I just want to say as far as the contrarian thing and all that
|
||
|
|
goes that you're saying, that's, I'm going to say that's kind of a cop out for you to say that,
|
||
|
|
you know, you don't really care what people think of you, but I honestly, I think you're a great
|
||
|
|
guy, and I think most people around here do, so you know, I, you don't need to come from a
|
||
|
|
place like that. Hey, I appreciate it. Well, it wasn't meant to be that way. I'm just saying,
|
||
|
|
I'm just saying, that's where, that's why I seem to live. I don't know why I always end up in
|
||
|
|
the conversation. I always end up on the counterpoint side. I don't know why it's just, it's just
|
||
|
|
the, the rest of us do too, man, we go out into world and talk that these windows nuts and these
|
||
|
|
mac lunatics, and we're, we're in the same boat here, and we know what you, what you, what your position
|
||
|
|
is. I'm wondering Unix, or Reg, Unix, Reg House, if you've ever thought about doing your podcast as
|
||
|
|
a hacker public radio series instead. Yeah, yeah, I actually did consider it, and for some reason,
|
||
|
|
I didn't get around the bed. And I know I only have like eight episodes now, but the whole
|
||
|
|
philosophy was when I had the other podcast, the dammit and penguin, I found that I was working
|
||
|
|
for the podcast. I was coming up with, you know, I was, I was coming up with software. I was coming
|
||
|
|
up with ideas and stuff for the podcast, and I realized that that was the wrong way, you know, at
|
||
|
|
least for me, that was completely the wrong path I was going. So what I ended up doing now is I
|
||
|
|
produced one, maybe once a month, maybe once every couple of weeks, I don't know, you know,
|
||
|
|
whatever's going on in my life, I kind of get out there and say, and I don't necessarily,
|
||
|
|
you know, want to promote it, or would necessarily have too many listeners or anything, but
|
||
|
|
I'm definitely going to, I do listen to HPR, and I think that's great. And, you know, I love
|
||
|
|
the rack chicken episode where you would move the chickens around the back, yeah, and I do,
|
||
|
|
and I love the Urban Camping, I listen to a wall, and not all of them, I listen to a number of them.
|
||
|
|
And I will produce one, I just can't say what it'll be because, you know, in the next
|
||
|
|
cheese, I don't know, you know, in the next month or so, something will come up, and you know what,
|
||
|
|
I'll send one out there, and that'll be it. You know what I say? You know this, moving chickens
|
||
|
|
around sounds a bit like a poultry version of chess, where you've got a grass moan in different
|
||
|
|
directions to make a grid, and you move the chickens about in particular ways, and you've got
|
||
|
|
chickens with little hearts on, say like root, and queen, and whatever, and it's like just chess,
|
||
|
|
basically with chickens, but maybe that's just me. I don't know about that. I feel,
|
||
|
|
Reg, a bit like a clueless guy who walked into an argument he wasn't aware of, because I mean,
|
||
|
|
I honestly just don't know much about BSD, and that it would be nice to have some Hacker
|
||
|
|
public radios that kind of explain that to me. Agreed. Because I really like, when you popped in,
|
||
|
|
I was like, oh, this will be cool, I hear about it, but then all of a sudden there was like a
|
||
|
|
back and forth exchange there that I was like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what this
|
||
|
|
argument is at all. You know, it's just not really in my consciousness, and it's not, you know,
|
||
|
|
I can't have an opinion on the argument because I don't, I didn't even know I did that existed.
|
||
|
|
I would encourage you to do an HPR that would kind of help the clueless noobs like me out.
|
||
|
|
Well, well, I'm a clueless noob also, and then I'm probably the worst representative that they go,
|
||
|
|
but you know, I'm glad to lay up a little bit and produce something in the next month. How about that?
|
||
|
|
Well, I did, I did a show. Oh, I don't appreciate it.
|
||
|
|
I did a show either for HPR, or maybe it was my own, I don't honestly remember, but I
|
||
|
|
interview a guy with the OpenCSW project from Open Solaris at the time talking about a lot of
|
||
|
|
different issues, like portability, keeping code totally portable. It was, it touched both on the
|
||
|
|
other Unix out there as well as the issue of keeping the code for the different Unisys and Unix
|
||
|
|
like systems similar and stuff like that. So I mean, there's, there's stuff out there a little bit,
|
||
|
|
but I think that, yeah, the mind share at least among this community as it is right now is heavily
|
||
|
|
meaning toward Linux. Yeah, that was my point. That's exactly what I was exactly where I was saying,
|
||
|
|
not that I disagreed with it, but that I understand that it seems to be a 9010, then I was under one.
|
||
|
|
I almost think that there's, even though it's not similar, it's not the same, but it's similar,
|
||
|
|
it's kind of like sitting down and asking why aren't there more women in the podcasting community?
|
||
|
|
You know, it's like, exactly. It's like, well, where, where are they and what can we do about it
|
||
|
|
anyway? I feel the same way about like BSD and stuff like that. It's like, where are those people,
|
||
|
|
but, but, but what question? Where's the BSD women? I'm not even going to touch that one with a
|
||
|
|
barge poll. No, I think with the BSD, I don't want open women. I want free women.
|
||
|
|
I think when it comes to the, the BSD and the Linux thing, I think there's a lot of people who,
|
||
|
|
once they understand the language, the licensee is not language, licensee is involved.
|
||
|
|
They don't want to give something up that could and is used and manipulated by major corporations
|
||
|
|
for no, when they don't give back, like Apple, when they don't give back. They would rather give
|
||
|
|
their attention, their time, their work, their effort, their brain share, their knowledge to something
|
||
|
|
that is guaranteed to be available, if you know what I mean, rather than, that can't,
|
||
|
|
that's protected from exploitation, if you know what I mean. This, so you're talking a lot slower
|
||
|
|
than last time I was on here. You notice that Delperay? Yeah, that could be the, that could be the
|
||
|
|
drink, that could be the fact that I've nipped out and came back and again, I'll try and come back again.
|
||
|
|
So, because I'm not sure, I know usually we say thanks for the end of the show, but
|
||
|
|
people keep jumping in and out and I don't want to miss the opportunity and I just want to call
|
||
|
|
out Kevin Wischer as the guy behind this show. He is the unsung hero here. He put together a
|
||
|
|
mumble how to PDF on the fly and it's been posted up to HPR all day and people using that.
|
||
|
|
And he has pretty much solely manned the test room. He's he's hopped out to make sure people's
|
||
|
|
mumble was working before they hopped in here and Kevin, just in case you're not here till the end,
|
||
|
|
man, I want to thank you for being the guy who did the engine behind the machine that is this
|
||
|
|
12 hour long show. Here Kevin, cheers.
|
||
|
|
Kevin, your mumble's not working. Uh, it's working now. Uh, this, you know,
|
||
|
|
this is my little way to get back to the community. I help out when I can.
|
||
|
|
I think that's the mentality that we all have and you, I just want to make sure that you know
|
||
|
|
that we notice it and that everybody knows you've done as much if not more of it than everybody
|
||
|
|
else here today. I think next year I'm going to set up a soundboard so that I can have a
|
||
|
|
applause and laughter. Oh, that would be so cool. All the things that we miss on the mute.
|
||
|
|
Please. And I'll make it its own little mumble guy and we'll just have the soundboard.
|
||
|
|
Make sure you have cricket chirping too. Yeah, perfect. Perfect. Request can be sent to
|
||
|
|
Hacker Public Radio. I want some UFO flybys. Yeah, so Kevin, I'm kind of curious. Are you like,
|
||
|
|
are you doing any kind of multicast or anything on this? Uh, no, not me, no. That would be a question
|
||
|
|
more directed, I think, for either Pipeman or Poke Delta, right? They're the people
|
||
|
|
actually recording and setting up server things and streaming things. Okay, sorry. Yeah, I think we have,
|
||
|
|
uh, um, an ice cast server, uh, my ice cast server is being fed to three other mirrors.
|
||
|
|
Yeah, I think that's correct. And then everybody is, um, streaming from those other mirrors so
|
||
|
|
that your band with your ice cast band with is minimized and the other three mirrors that are up
|
||
|
|
are pretty fat pipes so they can handle the load. But, um, the thing that Delta raised question
|
||
|
|
to Kevin made me wonder was, I thought he was asking him if, uh, if Kevin was streaming the show
|
||
|
|
and listening to it, and I think he's just actually stepping out of the room and missing the show.
|
||
|
|
And that's, you know, that's why I want to make sure I say it. I don't know if he's really missing
|
||
|
|
all that much though. I'm kidding. Yeah. Okay. Most of it was me talking, so nobody knew.
|
||
|
|
You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public Radio. We are a community podcast
|
||
|
|
network that releases shows every weekday Monday through Friday. Today's show, like all our shows,
|
||
|
|
was contributed by a HPR listener like yourself. If you ever considered recording a podcast,
|
||
|
|
then visit our website to find out how easy it really is. Hacker Public Radio was founded by the
|
||
|
|
Digital Dog Pound and the Infonomicon Computer Club. HPR is funded by the Binary Revolution
|
||
|
|
at binref.com. All binref projects are proud to sponsor it by lunar pages.
|
||
|
|
From shared hosting to custom private clouds, go to lunarpages.com for all your hosting needs.
|
||
|
|
Unless otherwise stated, today's show is released under a creative comments, attribution,
|
||
|
|
share and like, please don't show mercy.
|