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Lee Hanken
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Episode: 988
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Title: HPR0988: LFNW: Dawn McKenna of McKenna Interpreting Services
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0988/hpr0988.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-17 17:02:44
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---
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So
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Hello, this is David and I'm at Linux Fest Northwest, and I'm talking to Don McKenna from
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McKenna Interpreting Surfaces, and so Donna, we're lucky to get a table next to you, so
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can you tell us about what you're doing at Linux Fest Northwest?
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I can.
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I'd say I'm the lucky one, since you shared your power with me this weekend, I really appreciate
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that.
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I'm at Linux Fest Northwest this weekend, this is our second year that we've been here,
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and it's the only way I know how to give back to this community that's given me a lot.
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And so I provide interpreting services, and I gather both to attain national certification
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level.
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They're going to be requiring a BA degree, just to be eligible to sit for the test.
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Okay.
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Of course, when you're ready for the test, what is that in tail?
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That in tail is going through an interpreter training program, getting some real life experience
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with the community, because of course what they teach you in school is a very formal version
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of the language, not the colloquial everyday use of the language and how the community
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uses it.
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So you really have to split your time between the formal college and then immersing yourself
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in the community and learning how they really use it every day.
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So you have to get some real life experience, and then you pay a lot of money to RID,
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and you have to take first a written test, which is based on ethics theory and law regarding
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the ADA and things like that.
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And then after that, if you pass the written test, you can pay another fee and take the performance
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exam.
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And that's a videotape exam, which includes an ethical interview and basic interpreting
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situations, and then that gets submitted to several Raiders, and then they decide if you
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pass or fail, and either you get your certification or you don't.
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So obviously you've passed your certification.
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I have.
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And then so how many interpreters would you say are available in the, say, Puget Sound
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area of Washington State?
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Do you have any idea?
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Well, I have a better idea of Washington State as a whole.
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We have, as far as members of our local chapter, which is the Washington State Registry of
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Interpreters for the Deaf.
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We have about 225 members, but not all interpreters in our state or members of the local chapter.
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Some of them may be members of the Oregon RID chapter or the Idaho RID chapter, some of
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our neighboring states.
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So I don't have the numbers on that.
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My best guess, and this is really a guess, would maybe be anywhere between three to 400,
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but about 225 are actual members of our local organization, and I've been a board member.
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I recently resigned, but I was a board member for five years, so I'm pretty knowledgeable
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about the numbers of at least our membership of the local organization.
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So deaf and blind people, of course, I say blind.
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Deaf people are going to need assistance for an interpreter.
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So do people have trouble connecting up, getting interpreters?
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So I guess I'm asking whether your services are easy to connect with on a professional level,
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of course, or so would it be hard for someone who needs your services to get your services
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in a metropolitan area?
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No, not particularly.
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There's several avenues that any entity or person could hire a sign language interpreter.
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In almost every city, there'll be a variety of language agencies that will provide the service,
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but also the registry of interpreters for the deaf has a search engine to look for interpreters
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in your area, and when you do that, it will say whether they're certified or not, what certification
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they hold, and if they're available for freelance work or not.
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So you can access that list that way and try to direct contact an interpreter if you wish,
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but otherwise the other avenue would be going through an agency.
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So when you're here at the Linux Fest, we're talking about our sessions are about things
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software related and dealing with computers.
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Is that any more difficult to do sign language interpretation for, then say something where you
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were at another event, say just a regular lecture?
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Yes, every kind of event is difficult in its own way.
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Jargon is a major issue, so we definitely have to negotiate signs and how we interpret
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specific vocabulary to certain fields.
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And some interpreters are already very knowledgeable in computer tech speak and know some of the
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signs.
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We do have some deaf programmers in the Seattle area that work with a lot of interpreters,
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and they've been kind enough to share the signs that they have come up with with the interpreters,
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and those have kind of spread through the community.
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Otherwise we kind of negotiate what kind of sign language to use for certain terms
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in vocabulary.
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Of course, I have an attended a session where you've been signing, so give us an example
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of where if someone needed your services, you were in the session, would you be getting
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visual feedback from them as whether they're understanding them as you're doing the interpreting
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of the session?
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Typically we do, yes.
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And also, our deaf community is really great.
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If they see an interpreter is struggling with a certain vocabulary word or concept, and
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they know a specific sign for that vocabulary, for example, they'll give us the sign for
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that in the moment while we're interpreting.
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And then we just incorporate it right then into our interpretation and go on with the
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lecture.
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Okay.
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Real good.
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Sounds really difficult to me to be a sign language interpreter.
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I know you watch this on TV a bit and see it around.
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And so I'm curious as to how many years it took you or months to get into the sign language
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interpreting where you could actually feel comfortable doing interpreting for people.
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After graduation, it took me about three years before I felt comfortable enough to take
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the national level certification exam.
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And it varies with individuals.
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It depends on how involved you are with the deaf community itself.
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The more events, the more involved you are with the deaf community, the more fluent your
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language becomes.
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And then your interpreting becomes more fluent as a result of that as well.
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And then of course, immersing yourself in work definitely makes a difference, working
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a lot and working with other experienced interpreters who can guide you and help you.
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That's a major component of what we do.
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I have several mentors.
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I would never be without a mentor.
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I, one of my mentors who's been in the field for over 45 years, she still has mentors.
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And it's language, right?
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And language is constantly growing and changing.
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Just like in the English language, we constantly have new vocabulary added because new technologies
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come out.
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So they have to create new words and new definitions.
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And it's a parallel in the deaf community with sign language.
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The deaf community is constantly coming up with new signs.
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So I'm always learning.
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Always always.
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I've never been learning that language because it's always changing.
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Okay.
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So if a person wanted to explore getting into sign language interpretation, would they use
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internet resources like say, YouTube or something to kind of get a feel for what's going
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on and get started?
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Or where would they go for something like that?
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YouTube has a plethora of videos available of all kinds.
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There's videos of deaf people doing some lectures.
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There's videos of ASL students doing homework.
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There's all kinds of videos out there available.
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A good resource if they really want to become an interpreter.
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You can go to the RID website and they have a full listing of all the institutions that
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offer an interpreter training program and the contact information there.
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And that would be a really great place to start.
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Plus, they have basic information on the field of interpreting and that's a really good
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place to look for that.
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So if a family member or a neighbor wants to communicate with someone who has a need
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for sign language interpretation, how would they go about getting more familiar?
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Would that be the channel to go then, is for YouTube or would you find someone around
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the city or at to get some help?
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Well, if you're speaking about in more of a conversation, all you have a neighbor or
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something that you want to chat with, is that what you're asking?
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Yes.
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If you've lost the fence or seen if they need some help with something once in a while
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or you want to be able to understand when they do need help.
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Right.
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So the first thing to do would be to ask that person their preferred method of communication
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and the way you can ask them that would be to ask right a note.
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Okay.
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And ask them what's the best way to communicate with you?
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And they'll be really open about letting you know the best way to communicate with them.
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Writing on a note for short things or the neighborly kind of talk is a great way to go.
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The other thing you can do is learn the manual alphabet and there's only 26 letters in
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our alphabet, right?
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Okay.
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You can learn the alphabet in a month's time if you learned a letter a day, right?
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Right.
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And then you can finger spell words with them and eventually deaf people will teach you
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signs.
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When they see you spelling a word or struggling with something, they'll just show you
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the sign when you're chatting with them.
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And that would be another avenue and texting works great as well or instant messenger.
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That works really well.
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Any email too?
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You know of any computer-related technical ways that people could communicate with a deaf
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person.
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Is there like a text-to-speech application where you could have like, we're hooked up to
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a microphone here where that would be connected up to someone else's computer and you could
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talk that way and it would type it out.
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You see anything like this?
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I know there's some things like that available.
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The speech recognition is not that great right now.
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For example, on YouTube, they have a new captioning service on the videos where it's a speech
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recognition type of captioning service.
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It's not very accurate yet.
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So I think there's a long way to go before something like that becomes actually viable.
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But there are some people developing things like that and I haven't researched it very
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deeply.
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I know it's out there and I know they're not very accurate.
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I've used the YouTube captioning to try to see how accurate it is and it hasn't been
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very accurate so far.
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So I'm not sure where they're going to go with that.
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I'm curious when you do sign language interpretation.
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Of course, you did a little bit for me yesterday and you don't spell things out of course.
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You have more signs or more or broader range where you're doing flowing motions that people
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understand.
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Are you doing like syllables in sign language or how is the connection, say with what you
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understand, someone is saying something and you can hear this and want to communicate
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it to a deaf person.
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How do you interpret that?
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I just take it in and then actually transmit that message.
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Right.
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We do something called simultaneous interpreting and I'll give you an example.
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Most spoken language interpreters, you'll generally see them listen to somebody speaking
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in a foreign language and then the speaker will stop and pause.
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And then the interpreter will go ahead and interpret that whole chunk and that's called
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consecutive and then they go back to the speaker and they go back and forth in that fashion.
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When your simultaneous interpreting, you're listening to the message, your brain is translating
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it, then we put it out in sign language and while we're doing that, we're listening
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to the next part of the message at the same time and it's a lot of brain work.
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And that's why any assignment over generally an hour, especially if it stems in content,
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we work in pairs and we trade off every 20 minutes or so to give our brains a rest.
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Now American Sign Language is a foreign language and it has a different grammar structure than
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English has.
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So we have to listen to the message, understand the content and the meaning and then we
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move all the grammar around and put it to ASL grammar and express it in a signed form.
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And then the reverse happens when the deaf person is signing, we receive it in a different
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grammar structure than English and translate it in our head and then it comes out of our
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mouth in a spoken form.
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Oh, this is really interesting.
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So it's pretty intense but do you find yourself on a normal conversation being able to
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sign very, very fluidly then?
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I mean, it's just like second nature to you or are you having to actually focus real
|
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hard in order to do the signing?
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For just normal conversation, that's fairly easy going but when we're talking about
|
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say the sessions here at Linux Fest where there's really intense computer jargon and
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sometimes they're talking about coding language which isn't English either, right?
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I mean, that's the whole other animal.
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What is definitely more intense?
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When you've had people that have used your services or that you know of that have used
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your services at say the Linux Fest Northwest, then are these people, would you say, hobbyists
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as computer users or are there actually people that are developers that you've worked with
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or do you know?
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You know, we haven't had a lot of people here at the Fest yet although I imagine if once
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we get the word out into the community more, I think we would have a variety.
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I think we could have a mix of users and programmers potentially here definitely.
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Yeah.
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So when you, we think about US market for Linux cons, Linux Fest, open source software,
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gatherings and that, do you know of any others that are using your service?
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There are no other Fest that are providing free sign language interpreting services.
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There aren't any Fest that I know of that have any interpreters available at all.
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Linux Fest Northwest is the only one that I know of so far that is providing that service.
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So would you be a good person to contact if another Fest or Linux Con or whatever needs
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to or wants to have sign language interpreting?
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You're welcome to contact me and I'd be happy to try to advise them in any way I can
|
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for their regional area, the best way to maybe source some of the local interpreters who
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might be willing to provide services.
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Okay, and that would be probably the most economical way to get this service out of another Linux
|
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Fest for gathering correct.
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If you're looking for volunteers, it's definitely going to be the most economical way to look
|
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locally.
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My language interpreters, we spend a lot of money to maintain our certifications and to
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go to school and it can be what a business perceives as maybe expensive to hire a sign
|
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language interpreter, depending on your perspective, but my attitude towards this is this community
|
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has really given me a lot and helped me in a lot of ways as a user and I wanted myself
|
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to give back to this community and the only way I knew how.
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I don't know if other areas will have interpreters who feel the same way, but we do try to give
|
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a portion of our time to our deaf community along with working for fees and if there are
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some interpreters in the area that are passionate about open source and providing volunteer
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quality volunteer and services, then I would definitely reach out to the local interpreting
|
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community.
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So let's give your contact information where someone could reach you if they were
|
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interested in getting more information.
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Okay.
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So an email address?
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Email is the definitely the most effective way to contact me and my email address is spider
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tarp-s-p-i-d-e-r-t-e-r-p at gmail.com.
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Okay.
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That should be.
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That's a of course a unique address.
|
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Yes.
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We all have.
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So I want to go to the other side of the equation is you use open source software for your
|
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work.
|
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Is that correct?
|
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I would love to use it for my work.
|
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Okay.
|
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But at this time I cannot, as a business owner, I own two different businesses and I need
|
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to use a business accounting software.
|
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I happen to be a QuickBooks user and I have yet to find any kind of open source business
|
||||
accounting software.
|
||||
So I use open source software for my entertainment and enjoyment use.
|
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I have two of a netbook and I have a laptop and I run Ubuntu on my netbook and I have
|
||||
OpenSusa 11.4 on my laptop and I use that for internet and hanging out on the web.
|
||||
I use the office program to write documents and things like that and then unfortunately
|
||||
because I'm limited with the QuickBooks use, I had to pick one of the lesser evils to
|
||||
use.
|
||||
Okay.
|
||||
So I got really tired of problems with my Windows machines.
|
||||
So I ended up converting to Mac, being a Mac user specifically for my business use.
|
||||
But other than that, I use as much open source software as I can and in fact, I use Libre
|
||||
Office on my Mac as well.
|
||||
Good.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
I prefer to use the open source software but the one thing you talked about this with
|
||||
me yesterday is this accounting software is kind of a hole in the fabric of open source
|
||||
then for you.
|
||||
Is it correct?
|
||||
It is and I've looked at listservs and blogs and I'm not the only one who's struggling
|
||||
with this issue of having business accounting software available on an open source platform.
|
||||
I email into it who's the maker of QuickBooks about three times a year asking them for a Linux
|
||||
capable version.
|
||||
I don't, I don't even care if it's free.
|
||||
It doesn't have to be free.
|
||||
You're talking free is in cost.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
You're willing to pay.
|
||||
Yeah, I would be willing to pay into it for a full version of QuickBooks that would work
|
||||
on a Linux machine and I'm not kidding when I say every time I email them I usually get
|
||||
a response that says, oh, we have the Linux server version, but that doesn't help me because
|
||||
you have to have a Windows machine to access that version, right?
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
Just use it on my open source laptop and if I could do that I wouldn't have a Mac in my
|
||||
home either.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
Oh.
|
||||
That sounds good and I think we're putting the call out here to QuickBooks to get on the
|
||||
stick and get us a port to Linux and or someone else in the open source community to develop
|
||||
something that's good enough for people to use as business accounting software.
|
||||
I think that's a need and so that challenges out there to all the HBR listeners.
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
And there's lots of personal finance software that looks really great on the open source
|
||||
platform, but I need business accounting software.
|
||||
I need double entry, business accounting software, somebody please develop it.
|
||||
Okay.
|
||||
It's sure there are capable people with hopefully this will get done and I noticed you were using
|
||||
the command line, we're working on getting mumble install on your system and I'm really impressed.
|
||||
I mean, you don't need to know the command line to use the Linux distribution usually and
|
||||
you were in there playing with it and said you were getting to the place where you could
|
||||
be dangerous with that.
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
And in fact, it ended up that I was dangerous yesterday because I went to update my computer
|
||||
last night and I ended up downloading mumble for OpenSusa 12.1 instead of 11.4.
|
||||
So then my update just went all what could do and luckily to happen this weekend at the
|
||||
fest and I took my laptop over to the OpenSusa booth and they're over there fixing it for
|
||||
me right now.
|
||||
Wow.
|
||||
That's tech support.
|
||||
It's just across the way there.
|
||||
I know.
|
||||
And that's what I'm talking about.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
The best community is in helping basic users like myself really use this kind of software
|
||||
effectively.
|
||||
I really appreciate that.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
Can you tell us a little bit about some of the exciting things you might have seen here
|
||||
at the fest, some things you're interested in, what's the highlight for you, how's the
|
||||
food, the weather?
|
||||
Well, the weather's been great.
|
||||
We've had a little bit of rain but not too bad.
|
||||
In fact, we're outside right now.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
It's nice.
|
||||
It's cloudy but it's warm.
|
||||
So it's great.
|
||||
The food is excellent here.
|
||||
I wish the cost wasn't as much as it is but the quality of the food is great.
|
||||
That's coming out.
|
||||
I think it's the culinary program here.
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
The food.
|
||||
It was really good.
|
||||
And this is at the Bellingham Technical College.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
Excellent food.
|
||||
I was really impressed.
|
||||
There's a man here and I don't know his name but he's got a gaming booth set up with a
|
||||
racing game.
|
||||
Oh, polo Linux.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
That's cool.
|
||||
I sent a picture of that to my husband.
|
||||
He's a little bit jealous that he chose not to come here.
|
||||
He's weekend with me.
|
||||
I think he would have been lying several times for that game.
|
||||
See a Linux user?
|
||||
He is because I make him.
|
||||
Good.
|
||||
I do have a desktop PC at home that writes a bunch of this as well.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
And did you go to the museum last night to Spark Museum for the...
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
Yes, I did.
|
||||
How was the beer?
|
||||
I guess the HBR wants to know how the beer was.
|
||||
I was a designated driver.
|
||||
No, I didn't have any beer but my friends did and they said the beer was great.
|
||||
The museum was fantastic and I don't know if you were here last year for the party.
|
||||
No, I wasn't.
|
||||
Last year the party was in a kind of a conference room at a hotel so wasn't that exciting.
|
||||
This year's party I would say was a huge improvement.
|
||||
We had full reign of that museum and that was fascinating and then they did a whole electricity
|
||||
show that night with the Tesla.
|
||||
The Tesla coil?
|
||||
Uh-huh.
|
||||
I didn't stay for that and you did.
|
||||
I did.
|
||||
That was spectacular.
|
||||
It was cool.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
They're still developing the show but at one point they had a metal mesh orb with a chair inside.
|
||||
Yes, I see that.
|
||||
I saw that.
|
||||
You came in, yeah.
|
||||
And then Guy sat in there and they turned on the Tesla coil which was shooting all over
|
||||
this globe he was sitting in and then he's touching the globe to prove that he wasn't getting electrocuted by it.
|
||||
And that was really cool and then of course they had the tubes, the lighting and they could light them up without touching anything.
|
||||
It was a pretty fantastic show.
|
||||
Yeah, was the participant in the chair?
|
||||
Was he a volunteer or had he been experienced with that before?
|
||||
I think he was part of the team and experienced with that but the man who was doing the whole presentation
|
||||
said that next time once I get the show finalized sometime in October I believe he said
|
||||
then they're going to ask for volunteers and be able to take a photo of them
|
||||
while they're in it which would be really great.
|
||||
Yeah.
|
||||
I enjoyed the party for as long as I stayed and the beer must have been really good because we had a
|
||||
half of the homemade HBR T-shirt on when I was there and a fella from, I'm going to say it's Ferndale north of here.
|
||||
He's retired in his wife isn't and but she has an embroidery machine and so he offered her services to make
|
||||
us some T-shirt.
|
||||
He said it would be a little upgrade so I don't know if he was saying that we look kind of bad or not.
|
||||
She didn't seem all that really hip on the idea she was kind of going along with him but he had a few beers.
|
||||
I think the beer was really good and I hope to get an interview later over mumble with the Linux Brewers there
|
||||
and I'll just say they're going to be starting a brewery in the Seattle Tacoma area.
|
||||
So they were like, they're really cool group and they look like a rocks band.
|
||||
The differences and I mean it's just really good and I really like that.
|
||||
So is there anything else you want to share with the HBR audience or anything at all about what you do for
|
||||
as an interpreter or to encourage people to begin that or learning that?
|
||||
Anything at all you want to share?
|
||||
Well I guess my final words I'd like to say for the communities that put on fast in other regions and other areas
|
||||
to provide this kind of accessibility to the deaf community is really valuable.
|
||||
For deaf people to feel like they don't have to specifically request a service
|
||||
or burden somebody with a service and just feel like they can come to a festival like this like anybody else
|
||||
can just register online and show up and go to sessions and have complete and full accessibility
|
||||
is really valuable to that community and they can participate in your community as well
|
||||
provided they have the communication means to be able to do that and they have valuable insights and ideas
|
||||
just like anybody else has and it would sure make it easier for them to get access to festivals like this
|
||||
if you could arrange to have some kind of interpreting or accessibility services.
|
||||
Okay and for hacker public radio you know we put out a podcast and so for a deaf person to be able to participate
|
||||
as a listener quotes what would we would really need to have like transcription?
|
||||
Would that be the way to go or us to be able to communicate?
|
||||
Well yes a transcription would work I imagine this is not in any kind of video format if it was then closed captioning
|
||||
would be the way to go and I say that because there are some places that may have a video or video interview
|
||||
or something with a transcription and you can't watch a video and read a transcription at the same time
|
||||
but you can read captions as they're speaking and watch the video at the same time.
|
||||
So for something that's like in this format a transcription would be great.
|
||||
Okay I seem to recall that Ken Fallon or community leader was talking about doing something with putting
|
||||
the HBR episodes into slides. That would be good huh?
|
||||
That would be good. Yeah yeah.
|
||||
Okay and one last thing I'd like to ask you is are you aware of anybody that is deaf that is doing programming?
|
||||
I know that they're coding I guess.
|
||||
Yes there are some that were hit Microsoft that I know of just from community I don't work there but I just know them as community members
|
||||
and there's a few others floating around out there.
|
||||
And yeah there's some at least that's for this area I don't know about nationwide and I'm sure there's more.
|
||||
It seems like a job a deaf person could do and because guess what we're all sort of focusing on our screens
|
||||
if you have visual sight and probably could become an awesome coder and that so.
|
||||
And not only that, a lot of these guys work from home.
|
||||
Right.
|
||||
And I am and deaf people are just as capable of doing that as anybody else.
|
||||
Yes.
|
||||
Okay well Robert thank you for taking the time to talk to me and I hope to see you again then.
|
||||
Perhaps next year when we come up.
|
||||
Yeah thank you David I enjoyed it.
|
||||
Thank you.
|
||||
I appreciate the opportunity as well.
|
||||
Okay thanks.
|
||||
You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public Radio.
|
||||
We are a community podcast network that releases shows every weekday on day through Friday.
|
||||
Today's show like all our shows was contributed by a HPR listener like yourself.
|
||||
If you ever consider recording a podcast then visit our website to find out how easy it really is.
|
||||
Hacker Public Radio was founded by the digital dark pound and the infonomicom computer cloud.
|
||||
HPR is funded by the binary revolution at binref.com.
|
||||
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|
||||
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|
||||
Unless otherwise stasis, today's show is released under a creative comments,
|
||||
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|
||||
Reference in New Issue
Block a user