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Lee Hanken
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Episode: 1087
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Title: HPR1087: The FSCONS of Jonas Öberg
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1087/hpr1087.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-17 18:42:04
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---
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You're listening to Hacker Public Radio.
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The topic of today's episode is The F.S. Cons of Junas Urbari.
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Hello everyone, C.T. here.
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Today I have a real treat for you.
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Do you remember the conference F.S. cons that I've talked about earlier?
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Well in late 2011 I am managed to get a few recordings from there that I know you will
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really like, but first, what is it?
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You all know the F.S.F. the free software foundation, you know, with Richard Stolman.
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The F.S.F. has a SIST organization in Europe called F.S.F.E.
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Free software foundation, Europe, yeah, well you got that.
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If you have a look at the Wikipedia page for the F.S.F.E.
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it says that F.S.F.E. has a structure of organizations which are official associates.
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These are mostly national level free software groups.
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And one of these groups are the Society for Free Culture and Software.
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And if you have a look at the F.S.F.E. web page, you can read about it the following.
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The Society for Free Culture and Software is a Swedish non-profit organization working
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for a society built around a free exchange of knowledge, ideas and culture.
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The Society works interdisciplinary and gathers in the conference F.S.C.S.
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knowledge from several different groups, including creative commons, free software foundation
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Europe, Wikimedia, free bit and E.F.M.
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So in late 2011 I was there and let's hear what my reaction was, the second F.S.C.S.I attended.
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So over to, yeah, right, over to me.
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So I'm standing here at the IT University in Gothenburg and I am attending F.S.C.S.
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It's very exciting.
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I have been here since this morning and we are nearing lunchtime.
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I have attended two talks and I've gotten one interview so far.
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But I'm not alone.
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I stand here with my co-host Henrik from the All in IT radio as well.
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So tell me Henrik, what do you think of all this?
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Hello.
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Well, it's very new to me as I said that assembly was because I'm not from this world, so to
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speak.
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I don't know so much from it.
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So it's very interesting to attend these speeches because I don't have anything, any knowledge
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from it before.
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You're more of a designer than a programmer, yeah.
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And still you didn't attend the design talk, but rather the programming one.
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Yeah, because I know more about cute than I know about gnome.
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All right, so what do you think?
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What have you heard this far, and what did you like, what you heard?
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Yeah, the first speech we listened to by Foster when he talked about IVI, I recall the discussion
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we had about IVI, so it was very interesting to connect that.
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And the cute speech was very interesting.
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I'm tempted to test out cute and let's see what it can do.
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And I'm looking forward to the rest of the program as well.
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Anything in special you have your eyes set on?
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The last speech from Matias Klang about anonymity could be very interesting.
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Yes, and I've heard Matias Klang lecture before and he is very entertaining and he is
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very knowledgeable.
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So hopefully perhaps I might be able to get an interview with him.
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That remains to be seen.
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So if there will be an FSconz 2012, will you be there?
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I will be there together with you.
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Of course, I wouldn't miss this for the world.
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This is a really great conference.
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No doubt about it.
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Anything specific you really like here?
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Well, I like that I haven't even beaten up yet.
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All right, tell me.
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Well, I'm doing a little social experiment here.
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I'm wearing my Windows Phone 7 developer t-shirt that I got at the assembly just to see
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how people react.
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And so far so good.
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Any comments?
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Yeah, a few and most of them was pretty nasty.
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Wonderful.
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All right, what do you think of the venue?
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What do you think of the locale?
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Well, I think it's perfect for a event like this.
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And it's a lot of what you call a conference rooms that are suited for these types of speeches.
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The size are pretty what you can expect of it and the different floors that divide it.
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It's a university.
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That's sort of feeling gives, well, a university environment gives a certain feeling to
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the event like this when it's this small as we are, 200 people, 250.
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300.
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300?
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Oh.
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Yeah, last year we were 292, I think.
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And this year they said that it was a good number.
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So they didn't sell more than 300 tickets.
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And they were all sold out, sold out, of course.
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Okay, anything else you want to tell the hacker public radio audience before we go
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on with interviews and such?
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Yeah, I think you should definitely check out the tickets for next year's event.
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A good advice.
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Thank you, sir.
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And he really got a point there.
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If you have any chance at all to attend FSCON's 2012, make sure you book the flight and book
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the ticket.
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Henry referenced the episode assembly overclocked of the All in IT radio.
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It's episode 0, 0, 0, 9 and I will put a link in the show notes.
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He also referenced the episode should cars get smarter, which was featured on syndicated
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Thursday here on hacker public radio.
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It was episode 854 of HPR, but I will link to that as well.
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While people he mentioned was Jeremiah Foster, Duantilin and Matthias Klang, and you will
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hear more from some of those, at least one of them, in a future episode of HPR.
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But now it's time to talk about someone else.
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And that someone is called Jumnas Urbari.
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Previously, for seven years, he was the vice president for the free software foundation
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Europe.
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Right now he is the regional manager for creative commons in Europe, and he is also the executive
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director of the society for free culture and software.
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Or as it says on the FSCON's website, Jumnas is the major domo of the FSCON's family
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and deals with all things financial or administrative.
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And that is really true.
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Jumnas is seen everywhere when you attend FSCON's, and he does everything.
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If he isn't walking around making sure that everyone is feeling all right and having
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a good time, you can see him transporting food and soft drinks.
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And at one point, he was stacking t-shirts in the shop.
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And this is when I got the chance to speak to him about previous years and future plans.
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Once again, over to me.
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So I'm standing here with the Jumnas.
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Could you please tell the audience why you are here and what important part you are
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playing here at FSCON's?
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Yes, so I'm Jonas.
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I'm one of the organizers of the conference, not together with Henrik.
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I was one of the persons who took this initiative to launch the conference five years ago.
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All right, under what umbrella is that?
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So the conference is officially organized by the Society for Free Culture and Software,
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for Henrik and Free Culture in Sweden.
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It's a non-profit organisation here in Gothenburg and Sweden, and we deal with issues related
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to free culture and free technology and free software generally.
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And your name seems to pop up everywhere in the free software and the free culture community,
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at least here in the west of Sweden.
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What other projects are you involved in?
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Well, I mean, it's difficult to have been in the community for so long without diverging
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a little bit in your interest in what you're doing.
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So some of what I've done is obviously historical and some of it is current.
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The role I'm playing right now is the executive director of this Society for Free Culture
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and Software.
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So FSCON's obviously a major part of that.
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We also do projects on accessibility and open access.
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But my other hat, which I'm wearing right now, is the European Regional Project Manager
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for Creative Commons.
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So that's taking an increasingly large part of my work right now.
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But I guess FSCON's will still be an important part of your life.
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What are the plans for the future?
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So what we would like to do with FSCON's is to bring this up and sort of what we felt
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last year is that the conference has actually grown up, right?
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We had it for four years and now it's in the fifth year.
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So we have a routine and it's ongoing.
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So we definitely want to do it again and we want to hack in more and slightly more interesting
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areas.
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Raise the discussion a little bit, get people talking.
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And what I saw yesterday as well during the social environment is that we still have groups
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of people sitting in different corners.
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And I would really love to be able to bring those groups closer together.
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So encourage the social reaction a little bit more.
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And then we want to ensure that FSCON's is not just once a year, but that we actually
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have other events that tie in to this entire FSCON's concept.
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Because the concept of FSCON's is generally to bring together the three different areas
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of society, culture and technology and see where they actually mix.
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And I think we do that fairly well, but it's still just once a year.
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So and we spend all the resources on once a year.
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So that takes time and energy and we would like to do it more often, but maybe with smaller
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events or complement this big event with smaller events and also make it truly Nordic.
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So that we have something also in like Oslo and Helsinki or anywhere else in the Nordic
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countries.
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All right.
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Well, I've noticed that there are a lot of what would I call it, hardcore hackers because
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there isn't any real hacking technology event in this area or in Sweden generally really.
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And as you said, there are also other groups here and of course always interesting to get
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them to talk together.
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Why, how did this goal for you evolve?
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What is the roots for you feeling so strongly about this?
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So the first ever FSCON's that we had was actually, I mean the acronym was the free software
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conference.
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And that's five years ago and we focused exclusively on free software.
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But then we felt that well, we do have a large contingent in the Nordic region going to
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events like Fostum in Brussels and we didn't want to replicate exactly the same conference
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and we wanted to do something more.
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And we started to think, what is it that actually we find interesting?
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What is it that actually matters for us when we talk about freedom in technology?
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And we came up that what we're lacking or what we want to see more of is actually to see
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how we can actually make use of it, not just what it looks like and you know what it
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technology is, but how is it actually used in a societal context?
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And what kind of technology do we actually need in the future society?
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Those questions are critical and we didn't find any good venue where these could actually
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be discussed.
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So that's why we decided to broaden scope and include the culture and society in the discussions
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here to make sure that we get this mix of people.
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Well sounds great.
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How can people contribute and what do you want people to do as a next step?
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Right, so there's a number of things obviously.
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I mean, the first one is to get in touch with us.
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I mean, we were very easy to reach in for fsconz.org and we'll be sure to get back to you
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on that.
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Other things that you can do is to have a look at the public information which is on
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the fsconz Wiki because we have things like an fsconz manifesto which is quite important
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when it explains exactly what we want to do with the conference and where we're going
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in the future.
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And we would really love to have more comments on this, to make sure that fsconz is not
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just something that we organize once a year, but it's actually a community event in which
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people can take part more actively during the year.
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Sounds great.
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I work, I've told this many times on the air, but I work as a teacher in secondary education
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here in Sweden and I come in contact with a lot of pupils.
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People, teens who are 18 or just below that, are there anything special that I can do
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to raise the awareness of perhaps not just exclusively as fsconz, but the issues as well?
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Well, I mean, the thing that I've found is that a lot of teachers, especially in those
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ages, are a little bit afraid of touching upon these issues as well, which is a shame.
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Because there's some feeling that there's a stupid technology or that the people will
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be bored because you're talking about rather abstract concepts.
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But what I've found actually is that I mean, people see if you teach them, talk to them
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especially in these ages.
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I mean, there is a sort of revolutionary striking that you can sort of attach to if you want.
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And you talk about it in a slightly different way, but if you talk about it in terms of
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how would they want to see the society in the future take shape?
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And what would they like to have a staring put into this process?
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Then they might be very responsive to this and it would be interesting to then engage
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in that kind of discussion, sort of outside of the scope of free software or free culture
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or free society, but yes, see where do you want to go?
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And then I would be surprised if that does not tie back in with wanting to have a free
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society.
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That's true.
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I found that one of the problems is if you start to talk about these kind of freedoms,
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they have a hard time seeing farther than the nose can reach.
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So it's the direct implementation of these concepts and that is, well, why should I care
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about if something is really free since I can get everything for free on the internet?
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I can download the latest movie, why should I care?
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Do you have anything to counter that with?
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Well, I mean, that's an interesting argument, of course, I mean, and especially, I mean,
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at that point in time, you sort of lost the argument, you can't go into legal issues, right?
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Because I mean, that's not going to stick, right?
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What I try to do is I try to bring up things that are not as easily done or that are
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sort of beyond the scope of what they can currently do, not in terms of software done,
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but I talk, for instance, about replicating machines and 3D printers and things that I actually
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bring this sort of concept of what is actually free to the next level, talking about actual hardware.
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And if you can get the students interested in actually making something,
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that might be their road in, so to speak, into this sort of community.
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Because being able to draw something on your computer in 3D graphics and not having actually
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produced and having this produced cheaply is an enormous power that I don't think should be
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underestimated. And I think there's a lot of students that would be interested in this kind of
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kind of building that is just now beyond the reach because the technology is too expensive.
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It's interesting, you should mention these 3D printing machines, you had one here last year.
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And I get to feeling ever so slightly, just make me, let me be clear, the talks are terrific and
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they have stayed terrific, at least for the two ever cons I've been to, but the booths felt
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more vibrant last year. And we had the people who set up the 3D printing area. Is this something you
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are downsizing because you don't want it here or is it something that just happened and you
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want to correct it further when you think about next year?
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Right, so I mean this is an unintended consequence of another action, I would say.
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So I mean that's an interesting input and I mean that's something that should definitely get
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in writing to info.tfs.org as well. The reason why this was caused is that we last year we had
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two, well we had four parallel tracks, two with workshops or one with workshop and two or three
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with talks. So they were running in parallel during the both days. This year we decided to split the
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workshops and have them only on the Friday and then Saturday and Sunday would be dedicated to talks,
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but that also means that then the social events and everything that happens is Saturday and Sunday
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gets influenced by the fact that we didn't actually have the workshops happening during the day.
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Right, how was the attendance for the workshop since it was on a Friday, an ordinary work day?
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Right, so the attendance was still I mean fairly good I would say. I mean it dropped between like
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15-20 people for most of the sessions, which is the ideal size for a workshop if you want to get
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something done. Right, so interesting. Sounds great. Any last comments before you move on,
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you have a business schedule I understand? Nothing further from me. I'm just glad that you're
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finally here and that we have this chat. I mean I'm really enjoying it and I'm looking forward to
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doing more things to get in the future. Splendid, thank you.
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That was Jonas Urbari at FSCON's 2011. If you want to attend FSCON's this year 2012,
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you will have to go to Sweden, to Gothenburg, the 9th to 11th of November. Tickets hasn't been released
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yet, but keep an eye on the FSCON's web page, which I will link to in the show notes.
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If you cannot attend, well I'm sorry for you, but you can always watch most of the presentations
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on Vimeo. Last year we had Richard Stolman, so it will be very interesting to see how they
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top that, who will be the keynote speaker this year. That was everything for today. I will release
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a few other interviews that I caught on tape further along as soon as I am able.
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This has been CT for Hacker Public Radio.
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You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public Radio. We are a community
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