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Episode: 1117
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Title: HPR1117: The Wayback Machine-SDF.org
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1117/hpr1117.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-17 19:17:50
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---
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Hello, this is NY Bill, and this is Thorough, and this is Benny, and we recently, well,
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you guys recently were talking about SDF.org on Identica.
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How did you guys find that?
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I actually was through a comic op cast planet, comic panic op cast thing, I just found
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it through, through, he posted it on Identica, I think, or in cheap plus, anything like
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this.
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Yeah, because I saw you guys talking about it for a couple days, and then finally I was
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like, alright guys, what is this?
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And you sent me the SDF.org, it's a public access unit system that's been running since
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1987, which is, it's pretty old school, it's retro cool.
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But anything with the shell is cool.
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Exactly.
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It was so nostalgic when I made an account, and I logged in, and it brought me back to
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like 1990, that's the last time I was on a Unix system, was in college.
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I think I always on a Unix system back in college as well, fun times.
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So I'm the young one here who hasn't been on the Unix system, because I'm too young
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for it, we had, we had Windows boxes in high school.
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He just called us all through.
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Yeah, I just said, I may be younger than you, but, yeah, you're the BSD guy of the three
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of us.
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Yeah, I'm just, I'm just trying out three BSD, I'm not really a BSD guy, I use Linux, I started
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to use Linux in back in 1997, when I was at high school, or what, this school we have
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that's kind of high school, and it just started free BSD a few years back.
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So this is a SDF.org is free to sign up for, and you can get a lifetime account for $36,
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which is pretty cool.
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I think we've all done that, right?
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Yep.
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Yep, exactly.
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And I had to order a T-shirt and some stickers, because it was just that cool.
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Yeah, I didn't order a T-shirt, because the shipping is too expensive, so I ordered some stickers
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for my car.
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I like stickers on the back of my car.
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You need stickers, especially on your laptop.
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Yeah, exactly.
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On the laptop, at the moment, it's one bike, sticker, and one, I think it's a beer.
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Yeah, it's a brew dog sticker, this small brewery in Scotland.
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Weird thing happened when I signed up, and I got in there, and it brought me like back
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20 years, and I knew you guys were in there somewhere, in the system somewhere, and I saw
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a type who, and it said, you are amongst, I don't know, it said, like, 768 users, but
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it didn't list the users.
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And then I go, finger through, and I hadn't even thought of the command finger since 1990.
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It just brought my head right back to where it was back then.
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Yeah, I think most, most unique boxes you use nowadays have just, like, a few users
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that you put there yourself.
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We're not used to unique boxes with loads of users locked in anymore.
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I was just surprised that the command just popped back into my head without, like, put me
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back in time.
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Another thing that happened along those lines is, I wanted to sign up for the ARPA membership,
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$36, and I wanted the T-shirt and the stickers.
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So I opened up my drawer, and I wrote a check, and I put it in, and I'll open a stamp,
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and I put it in my mailbox, and then I get all the way back upstairs, and I go, what
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the hell am I doing?
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I mean, this is 2012, I'm sure they can take PayPal or something, but it's just...
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Yeah, I used PayPal, because I don't have any dollars lying around that could send
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to them, and I don't know whether dollars would make it to the U.S. from Switzerland.
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I basically used PayPal as well, so you see, it's the way to get around the problem.
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I don't really like supporting PayPal, but it's the easiest way to do it.
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So when I got to my log, I was telling the guys at the log about SDF.org, and probably
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a third of the room knew about it already, and some of them even had accounts.
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So I don't know why I hadn't heard of it so long.
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Yeah, I think, yeah, it's strange, because now when I'm on it, I see a lot of people that
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I know who's on it as well, so yeah, wait, come on.
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When was the last time anybody was in a mud?
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I think I tried some mud back in 2000, or something, but it wasn't that famous then anymore.
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So no one was there, it was just like an empty mud, so it wasn't that interesting.
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Yeah, he's designed into a local BBS system that had a mud.
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That was probably about 91.92.
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I haven't seen a mud in forever, and they got zork in there, and all the old stuff.
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There's a lot of games in there as well.
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I was actually the reason why I found it with that Ukraine was talking about playing Tetris
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on here.
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I actually found him on there.
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He's on there too.
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Yep, just log into Tetris and look at the high school.
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Oh, that right.
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Okay, you just tied it all together.
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This is where I recall him talking about Tetris, but I missed that it was on this system.
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Yeah, but that's a lot of funny things in here.
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Never used the fool.
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One of the guys at my log said it was the super, I got it written down.
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Super dimension for Fortress, SDF, it has something to do with a Japanese anime.
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Yeah, I think back when they founded it as a BBS, I think it wasn't on NAPL2.
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It was a BBS for anime fans.
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That's how it started.
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It only became a unique system, like two years later or something.
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It was a BBS on NAPL2 for like two years.
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Actually, though, it wasn't the next step Linux and they were getting hacked.
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No, that was in 1998, if I'm correct.
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Oh.
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They used some weird Unix first, but they didn't go online with that one and then they started
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using System 5 and they used System 5 to, I think it was 97, 98, something and then they
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looked for an alternative and NAPL2 was up to the challenge then.
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So they started using Linux and because, well, what's his name, the guy from...
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I've got that written down too and I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but I'm thinking Ted
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Olamin?
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And no, I mean the other one, the one that's still around today, I think Ted is the founder
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but Ted went away in 92 or 93 to found some ISP.
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He was into making money and the other guy isn't into making money, so that's why he's
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still around now.
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Stuff in Jones.
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Is that it?
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Yeah, it's the guy that interviewed on the BSD talk.
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Oh, nice.
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Yeah, and he said that Linux was...
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They were hacked because Linux was too famous and people knew about Linux, so they knew
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what to do to kind of hack the system.
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Linux is pretty rock solid, I'm curious.
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It would be neat to hear some of the stories of what was going on.
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Yeah, I think the big problem was that whenever you find Linux box somewhere on the web
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people start trying to hack it, if there is a NAPBSD box, no one even knows where to
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start.
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I think all the hacker kiddies, or whenever you call them, were off to Linux boxes back
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then.
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So the BSD was security through obscurity.
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Yeah, that's probably true.
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Yeah, I was just thinking about the problem with NAPBSD at first.
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It was NAPBSD back in 98 or whenever they tried it, had this problem that whenever you
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change password, it had to rebuild the whole password database, and this took like one
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minute.
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So whenever someone signed up or changed password, it took one minute or something to do
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this.
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That's why they went away from NAPBSD to Linux.
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And the thing has like 30,000 users right now, so I don't know what I had back then,
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but...
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I think about 15,000.
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Yeah, I think so.
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But it is old school, they have a lot of, I will use net access there and you get a
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main address and stuff like that.
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All depends on what you choose in there.
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If nothing else, yeah, you get a free email address out of it, but I mean we've even talked
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about, they offer, you can do SSH tunneling through them and like run screen and are busy.
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Well, yeah, and I think they still offer a dialogue service to this day.
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So I think there is no ISP that does this anymore.
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You can dial up into a Unix box without any like of these protocols that they usually
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use like PPP or whatever.
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I haven't had a phone in about 10 years or a modem in 15, but that's cool that they
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did.
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Oh, I should mention that the SSH forwarding, that was, it's, you can sign up for free
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and you get the email address and a shell account and then there's like different levels
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where you can increase your access into the system.
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So for the SSH port forwarding and stuff, that is...
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36 dollars per year, which is, that's reasonable.
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Yeah, you get a few other things there and I think it's quite reasonable.
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You get a box you can SSH into and do a bit of port forwarding if you had an internet
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cafe or something.
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I do that now through my house and I'm sure, you know, it's slowing down as it's going
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into my routers and then going back out through so that would probably be faster to hit
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their servers.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I use my Shiva plug at home for this too at the moment, but I have an ISP that support
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and not ISP, like a website holster that supports tunneling, so that's pretty cool, because
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I'm a 10-foil hat, so I have to be tunneled everywhere.
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Yeah, when I was on holiday last week, they still used WEP as encryption on the Wi-Fi.
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That was happy to come to somewhere just to get proper encryption.
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And you were playing with the Wiashock on that one.
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That's a vacation.
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Yeah, there were like a few other people on the campsite and they were all like over
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six years.
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I don't think it would have been that interesting.
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No, probably been a bit dull.
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Yeah, definitely.
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But among other things, what you can do here is you can get a website on SDF.org, which
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is pretty cool.
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You can get a go for side and go for rocks.
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Oh my goodness, I haven't seen that so long.
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What?
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You mean you haven't visited my go for side?
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What's about my side?
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Lost in Bronx one time, and I saw his, I didn't know to look for yours, I will now.
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That was what got me started with the go for, and that was Lost in Bronx.
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Yeah, I've decided I wanted one as well and put one on my, in quotes, web server.
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So when did go was at the log when I was talking about this, and he signed up too, and he says
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they have a Minecraft server also?
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They have a status dot net service, they have a lot of cool things.
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I've just SSHN and just dug around through in a terminal, I haven't really.
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I found that they have a few, if you take type help, or frequently ask question.
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They list what you can do, and it's a lot of cool things.
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Yeah, they even have a jabber server.
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If you're a meta-arple, like with 36 dollars a year, you get like 200 cakes of storage
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on the meta array, so that's pretty good.
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You don't get this amount of storage for 36 bucks a year anywhere else.
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Yeah, the fees were quite reasonable.
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I've been thinking about getting VPS to move a lot of stuff on doing at home up to that.
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I mean, that's 20 a month for a decent one, an entry level, but a decent provider.
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And SDF offers a VPS services too.
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Yeah, they even have this entry level, like a really low-end box you can get for I think it's $60 a year.
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So I was thinking about this because I don't need a VPS, but just to play around and have a box with a fixed IP would be nice.
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Oh, another had you guys heard free shell?
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Free shell.org, I think it turns out it's the same.
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I'm going back to my look again.
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Another guy that knew about this said he knew of it as free shell.org, and it just resolves to SDF.
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Yeah, I still don't get the history of all the domain names.
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I think when they first started on the internet, and they started to need a domain, it was SDF.loanstar.org.
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And Loanstar.org was some kind of Texas-based group of VPSs.
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And then they had SDF.org, but I think to remember something, they lost this domain again.
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Oh, and then now they have it back, don't know.
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And they've got free shell, and there are loads of domains.
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When you're an ARPA member, you can choose what domain, what's up domain?
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From what domain you want to your website to be on the subdomain.
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So they have like 36 domains or even more.
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I see.
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Is your turn through?
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Yeah.
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I'm having a bit of problems with the shortcuts for mumble, because apparently my browser has some of the same ones.
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Yeah, exactly, same problem here.
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But one thing, I just discovered a few days ago, if you're a meta-arPA member, you get mush access.
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That sounds for mobile shell.
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That's a shell that works even with loads of lost packages.
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So you could use your cell phone connection to SSH or not SSH and mush into the server.
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There is even a story on the blog, not a vlog on Gofer, from a guy he was stuck in an elevator, and he wasn't able to get a phone connection.
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And he wasn't able to get into the web over his Wi-Fi from the flat that was close to the elevator.
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But he was able to mush into free shell or SDF and send an email to someone to tell them I'm stuck in an elevator.
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That's a nice story.
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All right guys, so it was cool to get together and do an HPR on SDF.org, and I'll see you guys back on Identica.
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I'm NY Bill at SDF.org.
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And I'm through, and you can find me on Identica, or you can email me at through at sfsc.org.
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Yeah, I'm Benny, and I think you can email me over Benny at SDF.org, or find me on Identica's Navigium, or Navigium, or...
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I don't know, I'm going with Navigium.
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Okay, fine. I'll take that.
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Okay, perfect. Then my beer's empty now anyway, so...
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Perfect timing.
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Exactly. See you guys.
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All right, see you.
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Bye.
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See ya, bye.
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