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Episode: 2233
Title: HPR2233: linux.conf.au 2017: Hugh Blemmings
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2233/hpr2233.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 16:18:09
---
This episode of HPR is brought to you by Ananasthos.com, get 15% discount on all shared hosting
with the offer code HPR15, that's HPR15, better web hosting that's honest and fair at Ananasthos.com
Alright, so here we are on the last day that is not for you, so this interview is very good for me because it means I'm now done at least one interview every day.
So this week has been the first time I've used this microphone, it's been the first time I've ever tried interviewing people. All of my previous podcasts, it's been the usual Clinton thing of scripts and editors and percolated and weighted.
So interviewing is very new to me, so we'll see how we go.
And being interviewed is equally new to me.
So with me this afternoon we have Hugh Bloomingz, who was up until the AGM was the president of Bloomingz Australia, which is the sort of umbrella group and legal group and the financial assets that led to Bloomingz Australia run all of these events.
So you are no longer the president, but you are on the council.
That's correct, yep. And I suppose that you sort of see that as being a bit of a handover sort of period?
Yeah, it's been good, it was a bit of a desired result of it. It's sort of strange in a way to acknowledge that you're happy not to do something you're quite enjoying doing.
What we, what Kathy Reed was our immediate past, vice president and our president and I so looked at as,
Kathy had a really strong and I think a really positive vision for where to take Bloomingz Australia into the future.
But we really did lead the community to get behind it because it's actually consciously taking on more than we had been doing, which is not something we can do as a council alone.
We really did want to get the membership behind us.
What Kathy and I have had it about is sort of essentially we both stood for the president role and Audrey Council member role,
just that there's been the other, with complimentary, but quite different visions for where to take the L.A.
And essentially I said also, if you vote for me, we'll just keep it ticking over, and that's fine.
But Kathy's got a really good idea, so please vote for her and show your support and she will both work on doing it.
And pleasingly, the membership really did speak quite strongly with its, well it's not only its feet, I guess it's an ounce clicks.
And Kathy was voting as president quite a majority, but in a sense we consciously used as a plebiscite to seek to get the membership engaged.
And I think we have one of the bigger voter turnouts, so which is crazy.
So it's really a very pleasing result on every, Kathy's very capable, which is very well regarded in the community.
She has an excellent vision for where we want to go, and I think it's fitting that she'll be at the helm as we do it.
So like obviously you're a 100% behind Kathy's goals.
I think like I have had a discussion with Kathy about this prior, and I think I probably come down on your side more of the role of the council.
And I think Kathy and I agree on the words and the essential things where the council should just be getting the nuts and bolts right.
And if there are people who want to do interesting things, the council is just there as a baseboard or a springboard.
That's a silly tale about that.
And I guess you've talked about getting the users on board with that decision, but how are the users going to actually...
So the users have voted that they want Kathy and they want...
Let me just say that there's a hole we'll be doing more.
How are they actually going to keep doing that work?
How do they put their hands up and actually help?
That's a fair question.
So I guess there's a couple of different approaches.
I mean, in terms of the simple logistics they're getting in touch is an email message from the council list.
And that can kind of keep pretty much any conversation off.
Perhaps a good example of what's worked well is...
We're going to have a mention about the Treasury Subcommittee.
Yeah, Treasury Subcommittee is one thing where we've had a group of individuals who have expressed interest in the financial operation of the council.
And that's actually been set up as a subcommittee.
Another example is that we did a couple of two submissions to government last year on policy-related matters.
And they are basically all a heavy lifting of that.
The research, the writing was done by members of the community who got in touch and said,
hey, I'd really like to put a submission in the government on-blah.
Perhaps there's something when it's a stray would lend their pen to.
Yeah, right.
And it was dead easy.
We said that they very kindly went off and did the nodding considerable work of pulling out together then for us as a council.
It was really sort of reading through it isn't it?
Yes, it's just consistent with our ideas.
And for my part as then president sort of in essentially leading my pen to it.
Pressing a few buttons for a minute and we're...
And I guess that's what we hope will happen with here.
So I think there's a great room to stream.
Can play a greater role in those representations of government having a bit of voice in government policy.
And essentially any member of the community has a view on that as well.
And again, it's actually a power to save.
I think I'd like to write a paper on site on such a successful submission on this.
And we can kind of go from there.
The other thing I think in that space is a touch on this at different points in a couple of mailings to the room to stream.
I think Australia mailing this which is usually a way of it for the benefit of the list.
And since the main discussion list for the Linux Australia is the forum where we talk about community related stuff and Linux Australia related stuff.
I certainly encourage people to give thought to what they email about.
But also whether the particular matter at hand is something that makes sense to go to the Linux Australia mailing list,
which is a much broader list of things, six or seven hundred people on it or something like that.
That can be a little bit chaotic, I guess at times.
Or of course I can email the council directly.
And I'm not saying that in any way, shape or form to suggest that there shouldn't be transparency.
And you know, all the organisations operations are.
But occasionally things pop up where, you know, if it's a quiet conversation with council,
it's often these that have a little bit more nuance and it isn't a more broadly, broadly referred.
Again, we're not going to do anything on the hand if you hear anything like that.
There's a difference between the conversation.
You and I might have, you know, in a private forum versus at the very amongst the group,
the people sort of thing or whatever.
And you can raise more contentious issues and not have to worry about the crowd sort of running away.
I think there is that element.
And we have had instances that in the past, let's be clean,
where I think we've put in 10 people of flag stuff and it has digressed.
And I don't think that's necessarily been a betterment of the free software commons overall.
Or certainly the local local one.
I guess as a myself being a nuts and bolts kind of guy,
the thing that I have sung most of my time in Philadelphia,
Australia has actually been working on software friends.
And I'm very pleased with some of the things I've seen at this conference
that Chris is new conference platform.
Like he's been able to quickly add a new ticket type for the ref or ticket type.
And under the old system, I would not want to get near that at all.
But because he's been able to do a few of those things,
I hold a great hope that the new software system that he's come up with
be something that's actually much easier to move forward with.
Yeah, I agree.
I think Chris has done an excellent job on that.
And I think Chris individually demonstrated an enormous amount of initiative
to sort of kick that off and run with it.
And not in considerable amount of actually organising the conference at the same time.
But I think he made a very strong case to do that work.
I've got some funding.
I've forgiven you at the PSF.
Yeah, PSF, thank you.
It's a fund at which it's excellent.
Because we've ended up with a tool now that all future events,
not just in Australia events for years,
but very much a win all around.
And I would, so I've used the PV system for LCA, OSTC and Python.
Yeah.
And it's always been a bit of a struggle.
Yes.
So we will be using that new system for Python Australia later in a year.
Yeah.
Like there's already a little instance up that they're playing around with.
And hopefully we'll be able to find out any issues.
That's great.
I think it brings some eye and cleanness in another thing.
And that's the general area.
And I touched on this in the AGM and in my presence for four days.
One of the things we've tried to do over the years with Italy and Australia
is to have a grants program or fund initiatives where it makes sense to do so.
And we've ended up in a very fortunate situation.
We have a fairly healthy bank balance.
It's not infinite by any means.
But it's a healthy one.
And we certainly encourage the listeners and membership
to consider whether there's projects or things they'd like to do
that might meet our criteria for funding.
And it's various different forms.
It's a huge set to be many, many years ago.
Quite a number of years ago.
Actually, I think there's back when we were both one year when we were both on the council.
It's sort of in a sense the next Australia's goal should be
to have as little money in the bank as possible.
Because we should be giving it back to the community.
Now, it in me not quite literally.
But there is certainly a grain of truth to that.
That sort of, it would be a tremendous shame if there's members of the Free Cypher Committee,
particularly in our region who I'd really love to do this particular thing.
But I'll lack a tool or a piece of hardware or whatever it might be to do.
Having a look and see where we, and again, you can do that through the committee.
The media address.
So I know you've been very busy this year.
But are you actually speaking to zero of the conference?
I'm not, unfortunately, no.
It's been quite a few years now since.
I think last time I spoke was probably...
I want to say it's very John Oxon.
I did a joint presentation on some Arduino stuff a few years ago.
Yeah.
I've been...
I suppose I'm about to place myself on the public record,
which can often be a mixed blessing.
But I'm cautiously optimistic that by not having as time-critical or time-consuming role on Council
as I did last year that I might actually be able to use some of the time
I did spend this present actually tinkering on some code.
I've been very much enjoying getting back to the IOT,
sort of routes a little bit in my background's hardware originally.
So, yes, the point of that being that I hope for Lexdale's CA
I might actually have done something interesting this year, which I can actually talk about.
Excellent.
Yeah, I've been way too busy with stuff to think about interesting cool things too.
So, even put a talk in this year.
Not that that seemed to hurt the numbers.
It was like 421 talks.
Yeah.
So, they didn't need my 14th attempt to had a right,
the perfect positive generator talk.
So, it's been good this year.
There's been a number of talks that have sort of blown my mind.
I'm still like, I don't know if this is me maturing or what,
but in previous years I've always been able to go back to work and back to home projects
having come across three or four different projects where it's like,
I have to start integrating that projects in my actual cool year.
I haven't come across anything like that this year.
So, I'm still sort of hopeful that I'll come away with that.
Have you come across anything that you think's going to change the way you do your day-to-day stuff?
I think possibly day-to-day stuff less so.
I think what it has changed or what it will change, I hope,
is my, it's on the attitude, not pieces.
We've had a couple of talks, which I think have been quite.
Not confronting stuff quite the word I'm looking for,
but just timely reminders that the broader battle we have around open standards
and freedoms and so forth is one we still need to continue to engage with.
So, that's been, I've found that sort of a positive personal challenge.
And I think one of the things I'm doing actually right at this moment,
which is slightly dark, just carrying my work laptop around,
which is a macOS machine does all the things I need to,
but also, and all the thinkpads, which is what I do my Linux stuff for,
because sometimes you're particularly with hardware-related things
you often don't want to be in between you and the ports.
But it was nice to sit in on the open hardware mini-con,
for example, at the start of the week and tinker around with that
and just be reminded, yes, I can actually read C-Code
and set informer Kenny's talk on memory management,
and one of the other kernel-related talks doesn't...
You actually do remember how the kernel works.
It's been quite a while, but professionally,
but it was, I suppose, a timely challenge for me
that while it won't, to your question,
why it's to change this sort of what I'm doing day-to-day
and how I do things, I think it will actually change what I do,
because I'll be actually inclined to tinker with stuff.
So, it's sort of been a little bit of a conflict of speech during it.
Yes, yeah, I think that's true and also a reminder
that some interesting non-Linux kernel-related stuff
popping up in the internet of things
in the space, the freeartos and, you see,
the other one, the Linux Foundation,
or sponsoring, we're going to be able to remember the moment.
But, yeah, so there's, because my original background
has embedded controls in store systems
and when I actually worked on the kernel,
it was probably quite a lot smaller than there's now.
Yeah, so it'd be nice to possibly get back to that
as a hobby thing rather than as a professional thing I suspect.
Cool, cool.
Yeah, Paul's talk on trying to come up
with a formal memory model for me.
Thank you, that was.
Well, for computers, basically.
That was definitely the most difficult talk I've been at.
But, you know, it's Paul, so...
Yeah.
All of his talks tend to be rather difficult.
Well, they're complicated.
I don't know what your impression is.
The thing I'm always enjoying about those
much more detailed or much more sort of...
Hey, there's a touchy theoretical, but perhaps pure comp,
pure comp side talks.
And Jacinta Richards has talked on algorithms,
actually, was another that I saw today,
which had a similar sort of flavor for me,
is it's just that wonderful reminder
that the commons were engaged in,
as a technical discipline,
does have a fine and longstanding reputation of research,
reminder and sort of...
Because I have a slightly unconventional academic background,
I didn't do any formal computer studies until I did a master's
much much later in life.
So, I sort of missed that stage of doing that,
that fear, the more theoretical aspect,
the computer science.
But it's always fascinating to be reminded,
yeah, there's a whole ton of theory out there.
Yeah.
And there's aspects of the research that we do that are,
there's true bleeding edge,
bleeding edge research,
are new as the more commonly seen ones
in the media of medical research.
Yeah.
All sorts of societal research.
All of which are important areas,
but it's just nice to be reminded that
that our very own area of passion and interest
has that same deep sort of research background
and continues to continue to do.
Yeah, and it's one of those things,
like LCA is very much a...
I shouldn't say plumbers conference,
because that name is used,
but it's very much a work is on the ground,
pumping code out in salt and real ports.
Yeah.
And I think Paul is one of those speakers
who ghost all the standards bodies,
like he was on the C++ standard group.
So, I think there's...
I hesitated to say it's some form of RCU,
but there's some form of memory model
in C++,
so that they can actually do lightweight
thinking kind of stuff.
And then you sort of think back
and it's like,
what do you mean there's no memory model?
There's no form of memory model.
So surely,
someone's worked that out by now,
and it's a no.
And I've never been
a low level hardware guy.
So, for Paul to come out
and say,
outrageously,
it's like the titanium.
It can, you know,
reorder reads on a variable
on the same variable.
How is the computer supposed to work?
That's the question.
And for Paul to come out and say that
he sort of struggled to formalize
some parts of RCU.
He's really...
A great comfort to those
of Western minds, like myself.
And I feel it.
It's a very,
a very tricky world.
And I've actually used,
like, the user space sauce here.
So I do actually kind of
vaguely understand some parts of it.
But when you realize
that all these things are actually
really shaky foundations,
and it's like formal foundations,
but it all works really well.
So that,
that talk,
well, I'm going to have to
go through that talk again.
Similar to the key notes this morning.
Yes.
I'll have to play that a half.
That will take several episodes.
That was, that was,
we've had a very,
very strong run of key notes.
This conference,
which continues to find
tradition actually in that regard.
But this morning's with some,
yeah, certainly one to have
another listen to at house speed,
and absorb it,
and reflect several times.
And delivered with such
pernash needs,
I think, imbibly so.
Yes.
It's one of those things,
like I get into arguments
every now and again,
with people who complain about
the quality of the speakers,
that we sometimes get.
Because it's a technical conference,
most of the people,
they are technicians by day,
and the doing talk thing is just
well outside of what they normally is.
Yeah.
And I won't,
I won't go into particular names.
We've had certain key notes
in previous years,
and the overwhelming reaction
was one of,
it was a negative one.
And I'm very much focused
on learning stuff,
rather than, you know,
other good showmen.
Yes, indeed.
And I think this morning
is one of those times
where we got someone who has,
has thought deeply about the issue,
and is a showmen.
Yeah.
And it's a rare thing.
It's interesting,
so I think with what,
with what you point about the talks,
generally,
I think generally,
we punch well above our weight there.
But one of the things I'm struck by,
and I certainly have this conversation
once or twice,
each conference is someone
that says,
oh, you know,
I always wanted to speak in LCA,
but I don't think what I work on
is interesting enough.
And I think it's,
I think,
it's a very, very rare,
indeed, that
people's work is actually not interesting
with someone.
If all you do, day by day,
is a particular aspect
and system of demonstration,
or you think with VHDL
or microprocessors,
or whatever it might be,
it becomes common for you,
so you forget that,
for the person who's doing
sysadmin, VHDL,
sysadmin is amazing.
Wow.
Yeah.
Love to know.
And vice versa, I think.
So I really do encourage all people,
and I had a couple of conversations,
this conference,
and perhaps through the meeting of this,
this interview,
to encourage people to consider
putting talks forward,
because what you work on is,
or what,
or maybe it's your hobby,
or whatever you might do.
It's almost certainly interesting
to, in a technical sense,
to other,
to other attendees.
And, I mean,
there's even been a couple of non-technical talks,
this year,
that have really done,
like, that there was one
on, fortunately,
everything's videoed,
so I'd like to be able to see all the things,
but there was one on,
like, whether or not,
knitting was,
computing,
whether it was,
I think it was basically
whether or not knitting
is true and complete,
or some subset of knitting is true and complete,
and obviously,
the links between,
between knitting and,
and looming,
go, go, go,
way back.
Yeah.
But, yeah, there's,
there's a lot of,
there's a lot of interesting things
that,
and outside the technical realm,
but a lot of people
here would be really,
really interesting.
Yeah.
So,
I'm looking forward to going
and seeing a lot of videos.
Indeed.
Yeah,
a friend and former colleague
back home,
who wasn't able to attend,
but, actually,
apparently,
spent most of the week
to watching the live streams
and also writing notes
about other,
towards that,
another talk I enjoyed
was the,
I forgot the chat
who presented it.
It was the one about
hacking the
entertainment system
in his car,
slash dev,
slash,
slash dev,
so handbrake or something like that.
Yeah.
But, um,
it was all relating
to a particular brand
and, um,
model of car,
which my friend actually has.
So, I mean,
we really need to watch
the live stream now.
So, actually,
I already am.
So, that's,
it's a very,
very rich,
yeah, no,
it's been good.
Um,
I,
yeah,
it's one of those things
I'll,
I'll need to sort of sit down
and think about it.
Um,
like this year is,
is my 16th year.
Okay.
Um,
and I need to,
uh,
like going forward,
I need to basically
convince work to send me.
So, I need to sit down
and tease out
the bits I enjoy
versus the bits
that I get something out.
Yeah.
Um,
so, so I think
that'll be an interesting
process for me
over the next year.
Um,
so, uh,
as I was talking about you
before,
I'm not on the council.
I'm,
I'm not going to be doing
that much for Pokemon
are you this year?
Because I've done the
handover,
so it's,
it's,
it's,
um,
my baby has been let go.
Um,
so yeah, I've got
it this time-free.
So,
I have to work out,
um,
what I'm going to do this year.
So,
all right.
Um, is there anything else
you'd like to discuss?
No, I think,
it's a,
it's a good wide-ranging
conversations I've seen
in the movies,
but thanks to the
opportunity Clinton,
and thanks to the listeners.
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