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Lee Hanken
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hpr_transcripts/hpr2774.txt
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Episode: 2774
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Title: HPR2774: CJDNS and Yggdrasil
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2774/hpr2774.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-19 16:40:24
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---
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This is HBR episode 2,774 entitled, CKDNS and DIG Blassel.
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It is posted my first time post-order and is about 10 minutes long and carrying a clean
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flag.
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The summary is a summary of the thing I like about CKDNS and DIG Blassel and the places I think
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they could improve.
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This episode of HBR is brought to you by Ananasthos.com.
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At 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15, that's HBR15.
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Better web hosting that's honest and fair at Ananasthos.com.
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Hey guys so today I'm going to try something a little bit different which is doing a sort
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of podcast like thing and we really usually do this sort of thing but I thought I'd try
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it out.
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Feedback would be appreciated.
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There's a good chance that my mic is going to be really broken just because I haven't
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really had enough time to calibrate it but whatever.
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Yeah, I'm going to talk about mesh networking for a while so CKDNS.
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It hurts me.
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It really does.
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So for those of you who aren't familiar, CKDNS is some mesh networking software, it lets
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you build your own mesh networks on top of the internet or with physical hardware.
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It doesn't really matter, it lets you build your own mesh networks.
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It's so cool but at the same time it's so bad.
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So the first pro to CKDNS is the fact that it actually works.
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It works.
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It does do what it's supposed to do which is really impressive.
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It's super cool piece of software.
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The idea is solid.
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I really, really want something like this and it also gives you a whole lot of choice.
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The way CKDNS is set up right now is in order for somebody to peer with you, you actually
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have to send them a password to peer.
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And I think that's great.
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That puts more control into the hands of the users.
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Initially I was skeptical because that makes it feel a little bit sort of elite that you
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need an invitation to join the network.
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But the more I did experiment with it for a while and that's not really how it actually
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played out.
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I never actually got a key for somebody.
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I just use a public peer but I certainly see the appeal.
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It gives users the power to moderate the community to moderate themselves which is super cool
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and I've tried to apply that sort of philosophy to some of my own projects.
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So the problems because there's a lot of them.
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The first is Node.js.
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The CGDNS itself is written in C but for whatever reason CGD decided to use Node.js as a build
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system.
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My opinions on Node.js are pretty strong and I don't really want to get it into it right
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now because this would be a 30 minute podcast if I did.
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But it's kind of a deal breaker for me.
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I'm not going to get it into it.
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A lot of people dislike Node.js as much as I do.
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In the fact that this being uses a build system is even worse.
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I don't like non-standard build systems.
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I'll get into that more a bit later.
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But the last point is what really kills it.
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It turns out CGD is actually trying to monetize the entire thing.
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There are plans for adding a cryptocurrency into the network itself.
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From what the conversations I've had, it seems like it might be done as an external
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program but the way it's set up is basically going to be forced on everybody especially
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because CGD is developing a graphical installer right here and the graphical installer will
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use the metered bandwidth program by default.
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So it's going to end up everywhere.
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If the graphical installer does it by default, it's going to be everywhere.
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There's no escaping it.
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So that's a major downside.
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That's not acceptable in my opinion.
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Not to mention the fact that it's actually building the cryptocurrency into the network itself.
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They're not using existing cryptocurrency.
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They're building their own which is that's not okay.
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Which is really a shame because it's a really promising project.
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It's pretty cool.
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I used it for a while.
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It's unbelievably cool.
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I could even go as far as recommending that you check it out even if it isn't the
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optimum thing.
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Obviously you would see a new maintainer or something like that to maybe help wrinkle
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out some of those issues specifically the whole Node.js thing as well as figuring out
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how to do sort of damage control on the cryptocurrency.
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But other than that, it's really, really cool.
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JJDS actually has a sort of evil twin, which is Yig Juzil.
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I'm sure I'm butchering that name.
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I'm really sorry.
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What can I do?
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Yig Juzil is very similar to JJDS and it's also super cool.
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It also gives people the same level of choice that JJDS does.
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I think it has slightly less configuration options, but it's not really a problem.
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It also works really well.
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It's actually from what I've heard significantly faster than JJDS right now at least.
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And there's no cryptocurrencies or Node.js or anything.
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Which is pretty cool, except it's written in Go.
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My issue with Go is static linking, which kind of, it takes away the freedom of using your
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own custom built libraries.
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I know most people don't do that, but I use Gen 2.
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So everything on my system is built from source.
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And a lot of that has, I've set use flags because I want things to work differently.
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And taking away that control is kind of terrible.
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I understand that Go was kind of designed for Windows-like systems, not so much for Linux,
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but it's the system I use so it matters to me.
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The bigger issue is Go, just like Node.js, well, just like CJDS, use the non-standard build
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system, specifically Go has its own built-in build system, which has two problems with it.
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The first is that it downloads dependencies during compile time, which is a huge problem
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for Deasters like Gen 2, where everything is built from source.
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Because that's a big no-no, you never download anything well-compiling.
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And the other issue is that Deasters like Gen 2 already have configured on Gen 2.
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They're called E-classes that basically let you build a program automatically.
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Like for example, basically any project that uses CMake, you can build it basically
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entirely automatically on Gen 2.
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Because the system already knows how to talk to CMake, it already knows how to make it
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installed to different directories, it's already all sorted out for you, pardon me.
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With Go, that's not quite the case.
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Now there may well be an E-class for Go, and I'm sure somebody could write one, but
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at the end of the day, Go is a programming language.
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It's not a build system, so it really shouldn't have a build system built into it.
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If you're just going to use Go, but it also used CMake to build instead of the building
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and Go system, that would be much better, in my opinion.
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There would still be the static linking issue, which would never really be fixed because
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Go is built from the ground up for static linking.
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But having a new build system would be a good first step.
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I don't actually expect anybody to listen to me.
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I don't expect any changes to be made.
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I'm just voicing my opinion.
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So yeah.
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It's been a while.
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I've looked at quite a few different projects like this.
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Yik Juzil and Cedric and S are the only of their kind, obviously.
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But I've looked at a whole lot of things, things like Matrix and IPFS.
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I have some pretty strong opinions on a lot of them, so I thought it would be cool
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to share some.
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If you found this interesting, let me know.
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If you have feedback, please, it would be greatly appreciated.
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I'm thinking about maybe doing some other things in the future.
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Maybe just general Linux tips or just more comparisons of different open source projects,
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like Cedric and S.
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I might do some dev blogs, but I feel like it would be a little bit boring because it's
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just code.
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I don't know.
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I don't know what you think.
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I hope you enjoyed.
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You've been listening to Heka Public Radio at HekaPublicRadio.org.
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We are a community podcast network that releases shows every weekday Monday through Friday.
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Today's show, like all our shows, was contributed by an HBR listener like yourself.
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If you ever thought of recording a podcast, then click on our contributing to find out
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how easy it really is.
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Heka Public Radio was founded by the Digital Dog Pound and the Infonomicon Computer Club,
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and is part of the binary revolution at binwreff.com.
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If you have comments on today's show, please email the host directly, leave a comment on
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the website or record a follow-up episode yourself.
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Unless otherwise status, today's show is released on the Creative Commons, App Tribution,
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and share a light 3.0 license.
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