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Episode: 3396
Title: HPR3396: Card roles in Magic the Gathering
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3396/hpr3396.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 22:41:17
---
This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3396 for Monday, 9th of August 2021.
Tid's show is entitled, Card Rolls in Magic the Gathering.
It is the 260th show of Clot 2 and is about 39 minutes long and carries a clean flag.
The summary is, there are over 25,000 cards in MTGU only need 60 to play.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by an honest host.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HPR-15.
That's HPR-15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at An HonestHose.com.
Hey everybody, this is Clot 2, you're listening to Hacker Public Radio.
I am going for a walk, but Ken has put out the dreaded call for shows.
I say dreaded because that means that there aren't enough shows.
It's not that I dread Ken's messages.
I actually quite like to hear from Ken.
It's a nice guy.
So he said that we need shows in the queue.
So while I'm walking, I decided why not record a show?
And I know that audio quality under such conditions is not ideal.
I'm going to apologize once quickly right now for that.
And then I'm going to never mention it again, at least in this episode.
So in this episode, I want to talk about Magic the Gathering.
Back in 2018, I did an episode called Magic the Gathering for Cheapscapes.
And I wanted to talk about that a little bit more now, like three years later.
Three, three, eight, nine, ten, eleven, three years later.
And I got a couple of months, I think, because I think that was like a march.
And I'm recording this in July.
So anyway, Magic the Gathering for Cheapscapes.
The idea to that was that you go to a store, a game store,
and you buy their cast-offs, like all the cards that nobody else wants.
And you buy a bunch of them, like a lot of cards, more cards than you'll ever need.
And then from that pile of worthless cards, you assemble a deck and you start playing.
And that has served me well.
I have stayed true to the ethos of not becoming a card addict.
And generally, since investing in Magic the Gathering cards once,
I have not had to invest in any more with two exceptions.
And the second exceptions, what I want to talk about right now, well, in a moment.
The first exception was that I did buy a box of cards at full price.
But it wasn't, it genuinely wasn't because I needed more cards to play with.
It was to play the game with.
It was because I wanted cards to add to my knowledge of a setting in Magic the Gathering,
which also was a setting in D&D.
And so I sort of got the cards as sort of game materials for Dungeons and Dragons,
more than for their primary purpose of Magic the Gathering.
And I can back that up.
If you come over to my house, I'll show you the stack.
It's not mixed in with my card, the cards that I play with.
It's over by my D&D books.
So I'm not kidding, I really do keep those cards separate.
And I use them during a Dungeons and Dragons game.
Okay, so second exception is the thing that I want to talk about here.
And it's an important principle, I think, for potential Magic the Gathering players.
And I'm by no means an expert.
You can find probably literally books written on the subject.
You can find podcasts that talk about this stuff endlessly.
I find all of that stuff a little bit overwhelming.
And I'm going to kind of going under the assumption here
that if you were trying to get into Magic the Gathering,
then you might find them a little bit overwhelming as well,
because they're definitely for people who sort of talk and obsess about Magic a lot more
than certainly a beginner Magic player would know how to deal with.
So when I said in 2018 that you can just buy a bunch of cards and start playing,
that was true, and it's about as inefficient as Magic,
as playing Magic, acquiring Magic cards are in any other way.
Like, there's really very few efficient ways to just buy a Magic the Gathering game.
Essentially, when you start Magic the Gathering,
you are signing up for a framework, and the framework is a really good framework
as I've demonstrated in other episodes about Magic the Gathering.
It's a really good framework for making a game.
But you do kind of have to make the game yourself.
You have to assemble the decks, you have to build them so that they sort of work for you,
so that they sustain you through a whole game.
And I'll admit that it's a little bit of a strange experience.
Like, normally when you go and buy a game, you get all the pieces in a box,
and you take all the pieces out, you play the game, put the pieces away, and you're done.
Magic the Gathering offers very few experiences like that.
Now, that said, there are some products out there that do offer that experience.
You can buy them. They're called pre-constructed decks.
They're, you know, kind of expensive, more expensive than getting the cast-offs.
But then again, you're guaranteed to get all the cards that you need.
But that's just one deck.
So you're buying, yes, you're buying a game.
But it's kind of realistically, it's kind of not how Magic was designed.
Like, they expect you, the people designing this game,
and arguably redesigning the game every year because they keep coming out with new magic cards.
They expect you to build, to take the parts, the components, that they're providing you
year after year, and build decks with it, and sort of essentially make your own game out of the
parts that they're providing you. So it takes some getting used to the parallels from, you know,
between that style of game and, for instance, open source or Linux or whatever are astounding.
Like, just the fact that people are making parts of a hole and throwing it out there.
And just expecting you, the user, to assemble them in a way that's pleasant for your purposes.
I guess it's also like just PC building, you know? Like, if you're going to go out and get a gaming
computer or a computer, then you buy all the parts and you know that you need a CPU and a RAM,
and a motherboard, and probably a hard drive, a power supply that I say that already, whatever.
And you put a tower and you put them all in there. That's the same thing with Magic, the gathering,
but the difference, the really important difference here, is that Magic the Gathering
doesn't really have anywhere that I can find so far, and I have looked. They don't seem to have
an explanation of what those components are. And part of that is because I think that the creators of
the game want to make sure that there's maximum flexibility. Like, they want to make sure that you
the tinkerer gamer have all the components that you need and more. And so whatever weird outside
the box idea you have for what you think would be the optimal Magic the Gathering game, you can
create that. And I mean, they've designed and released 25,000 cards over 25,000 cards.
And so it's almost guaranteed that whatever concept you have, you can build. But again, I go back
to the problem of if you're new to the game, or if you're just feeling your way your way around in
the game, then you don't have an idea yet. And it's kind of like when people tell you when you're
starting to use Linux, you know, like, about all the different desktops that you have to choose
from. And you think, oh, this sounds very exciting. And I have no idea what to choose because they're
all different. They're all, it's all the same to me. And the same is that I have no idea what
they do or what the difference is. And people can tell you like, oh, KDE is this way. And
GNOME is like that. And Foxbox is like that. And that still means nothing to you because you don't,
you don't have that experience yet. Magic the Gathering I think is a kind of similar conundrum.
It's like great. I'm so glad that I have 25,000 pieces to choose from. Too bad I really have no
clue what I want to do. So my goal in this episode, Dear listener, is to explain to you what the
pieces are. So that if you get into, if you're looking to get into Magic the Gathering,
then you'll be able to do so with some information, some, some, uh, yeah, some clues as to which way
to go. And I'm not going to be naming like specific cards. Indeed, I think that would be, uh,
well, that would be a losing battle from the start, really, because like I say, they're coming
out with new cards every year, uh, multiple times every year. So it's, it's quite, it's quite a
tall order to try to sort of give people a literal like a menu to choose from. Like that's just
not possible. But I'm going to give you the roles that certain types of cards play. And then your job,
and I'll tell you how to do this later, but your job will be, if you're looking to get into this game,
your job will be to go on the internet and look up cards of this type and choose from those cards.
And by choosing from those cards, of course, I mean, going either on to internet vendors,
we're going to your local game store. If, if they're open, depending on your area,
I'm recording this and we're still experiencing a pandemic. So you only do that, obviously,
if you're vaccinated and you're safe and so on. But you can buy just single cards and they'll
range from like 30 cents to $2. And you can buy single cards with some information on what you're
buying. So the first thing we're going to talk about are, I guess, the really obvious ones.
And that are, that is the land cards, L-A-N-D, land cards. They famously provide the source of power
for the game. You're supposed to be like a wizard, essentially, in the game. And the wizard draws
their magical powers from the land itself. So you need land cards. People who play magic usually
end up with way more land than they ever could need or want. And so they resell it pretty regularly.
They are, in terms of rarity, they are more common than common. They're just, they're everywhere.
Unfortunately, you don't usually stumble across these cards when you're out,
you know, getting up, getting discarded cards at a game store. So you might have to buy those
sort of separately. But that's fine. I mean, most many of the, many of the cards I'm talking about
will be things that you have to get separately sort of apart from just getting a box of disc cards
from your, from your game store. So land cards, that's first of all. The next one is going to be
the big box of just whatever cards you can find from your game store. As I think I detailed,
I mean, honestly, I haven't listened to that episode in ages. But back in my 2018 episode,
I believe I say, go to your local game store, ask if they have, you know, spare cards that,
that people don't want that you can purchase. They, they will. Sometimes it takes them a while to
sort of amass that, that bargain bin. After, you know, they have to wait like a couple of weeks
until after they've held lots of events and people have tossed aside the, the loser cards that
they don't want. You can buy those for dirt cheap. Like I say, if your local game store
doesn't have that, then you can probably find it online anyway. Just make sure that you're,
you're buying truly cheap stuff because these are just the cards that you need to kind of pat out
the deck. It's not, you're, you're not looking for anything specific. In fact, hey there,
hey there. Hey, how's it going? He's just going to sit here and let me pet him, I guess.
Beautiful guy. Yeah, isn't it? Yep. Sorry, there's a K9 friend that ran up to me. So anyway,
these are cards that you're going to need to just kind of pat your deck. You know, you need to like
do things like, you need creatures on the board and they don't have to be fancy creatures.
I mean, in an ideal world, they would be, you know, super fancy creatures with lots of extra
abilities and, and lots of strengths and stuff like that. And I get it. I'm not, I'm not trying
to do an episode on how to build like the most optimized and powerful magic deck here. I'm trying
to get you into this game if you want to be into the game for cheap and, and with a reasonable
sort of barrier to entry. So I'm just saying, go get the, the dirt cheap cards that nobody else
wants, populate your deck with them. You're not going to win a tournament with this or anything,
but I'm assuming that that's not the goal. And so you'll just get some cards. And these are
significant because you need cards to populate your deck. You just, you just do.
You're going to put 24 lands into your deck. And then you're going to put a bunch of creatures
and spells in your deck. And I think the official magic numbers are 17 to 18 creatures, 24 lands.
And then I don't know, whatever's left for sorceries and enchantments and incidents and artifacts,
things like that. So you're going to get a bunch of those and you're going to put them into your
deck. And you'll want those to kind of cover a whole spectrum of mana cost. So you're going to want
some, they call it a mana curve. You're going to want some that are really cheap to cast. Like they
only take one mana. So you, once you get one land out onto your, onto your board, onto your,
onto the table in front of you, then you can start casting those really cheap ones really early.
And those are important. They may not deal direct damage to your opponent. They may not deal a whole
lot of damage at all, but at least they're there. And then magic, the gathering, generally speaking,
their exceptions to everything. Generally speaking, when someone attacks you, if you want to throw a
little meager, one, one goblin in the, in the path of that monster, that goblin will save you
life points. It will, it will take the hit and protect you from taking a hit yourself as a player.
And sometimes that's worth it. It's called chump blocking. I have learned it's a fun term,
chump blocking. Yes, you can chump block with little tiny creatures and not have to reduce your
own life total. That's fun. So you're going to want some of those. But then again, you're going to
also want some big creatures too, right? Like some four, fours and five, fives and six, sixes or whatever
you can find in that big pile of stuff that nobody else wants. Just throw them into your deck because
you're going to want kind of the whole spectrum. You're going to want a good, a good range of cheap
-ish creatures. I've talked about mana cost, cheap mana creatures and some more expensive ones.
So you want the, the, the curve there. So we've got land cards, we've got chump blockers and just
general per, I should call them general purpose creatures and, and spells. That's what they really are.
They're just general purpose. So so far, we probably, we've probably spent, I don't know,
some of them out of dollars. Why am I trying to put a number on it? It's going to change from
region to region anyway. And at this point, I'm so, I'm so, well, I live in New Zealand for the
past seven years. So I mean, all of the money figures that I have in my head are New Zealand
money figures. And that may or may not apply to you. So I'm not going to put a number on it. But
we've, we've, we've gotten by, we've gotten out of this pretty cheap so far. We got land and we've
got cards that nobody wants. So next, this is the stuff that, this is the, the stuff that you're
here for. This is the, the, the, the stuff that you might have to look a little bit harder for.
Some of these you're going to find in your bargain bin. Some of them, you're going to have to
purchase specially online by buying single cards that other people, other players are selling.
This is why Magic the Gathering is called the trading card game. I mean, admittedly, I think the
intent was a literal trade like, hey, I will give you this card or these two cards for that one
good card. And, and you do that. But in real life, especially with the internet being what it is,
the easiest way to get from here to there often is to just exchange money for it. And that's
what people do. They go to the game store and they sell a card that other people consider
to have value. They sell that to the game store and then the game store sells that to someone who
doesn't have that card. But once that card, like I say, this could mean that you're paying 30 cents
for the card. It could mean that you're paying $300. I mean, it really just depends on what card it is
that you're looking for. But I am recommending to you the categories of cards you're going to
search the internet for. You're going to find a list of cards that serve a certain function.
And then you're going to find the cheap one or the one I should say in your in your range of
acceptable expenditure. And then you're going to purchase those. It's not hard, honest. Okay, so
the one category is going to be, let's call it, just actually, I think I've already covered that.
So I was going to say general damage. But that's what you've got in your in your bargain pen. You've
got general things that do general damage. Another thing that you're going to want to look for
is our cards that do direct damage. Direct damage could mean that it is targeting a specific card,
like a target card, target creature, target spell, something like that where you get to pick
what you are damaging. Because normally in magic gathering, you just blindly attack. You just
tell your opponent, I attack you with these cards. And your opponent gets to choose what you're
actually attacking. That's one of the powerful sort of player agencies that the game does allow
the defender. It's that the defender gets to choose what takes the damage. Now there are some
cards though. And they're usually a little bit more special than, you know, this bargain bin
stuff. Although that said, there are bargain bin cards that I have found that do direct damage.
So I have not purchased these separately. But it's kind of the luck of the draw. You know,
if you got a bargain bin selection, that includes these kinds of cards, then great. If you didn't,
then you'll have to buy separately. So you will want some cards, you know, one, two, three, four.
Magic number for me is four because the rule of a magic deck is that you can not have more than
four of the same card. So I just kind of use four as my guiding number. Again, it's probably not
like the right number. It's probably not the most optimal number. But that's just kind of the
number I have. I figure if I have four of all the categories that I've defined, then the likelihood
of that card coming up at some point in my deck when I need it is pretty good. Like,
there's probably a way to get a feel for your deck and decide, oh my gosh, I need four of these cards
and for those cards. Both of them fit the purpose of doing direct damage. But just based on my
strategy as my deck is playing, I realize I need to be drawing that capability very frequently.
Like every other hand cycle, I need to have one of those cards available to me, whatever.
And that kind of thing is something you kind of literally, you just get the feel of it after
you've played a couple of times. There's definitely play testing involved here, which again,
not normal. I don't think for most games, but for Magic of the Gathering is kind of par for the
course. So direct damage is a category of cards. You're going to want to look for it. And in every
category, for me, when I'm thinking about these things, I think about them in four separate ways.
I think of them. Well, I'd be able to remember them. I think of them as artifact,
creatures, spells. And I've forgotten the other one right now. But artifacts, creatures, spells,
maybe only three categories. Either way, I think of those so that when I'm looking online for
something, then I know, okay, well, I'm looking for the category of, you know, the top,
the best cards in Magic of the Gathering to do direct damage. I'll look for that. And then when
I'm looking through my options, when I found that list online, wherever I found it, I'll look through
and try to make sure that I've purchased a card within that category that affects artifacts,
affects creatures, affects spells. And I think there's probably one other thing that I look for
that I just, I'm not keeping, I'm just, I don't have it in my head right now. I mean, I literally
haven't written down at home, but I'm going to walk. So I don't have that in front of me.
Drug damage. Okay, so the other category, so I've got general damage, direct damage. Oh,
in land, of course. And then the next one that I came up with was counter spells.
The counter spell, probably not like absolutely essential, but it's a pretty important one
that I feel like you're probably going to want to have it in in your hand. And again,
four is the kind of the magic number that I go with, not the best probably, but that's what I do.
I'm like, I want something to counter spell. Just in the event, some might say inevitable,
but it probably depends on, you know, kind of like what you're playing against. There's no way to
predict that. So I like to have a counter spell card or two or four. And so once again,
I do a search, the internet, best cards, magic, the gathering, counter spell. You'll get a list
of like 50 cards, 80 cards that do counter that that are magic gathering and they do counter spells.
In other words, they are instant things that you can play in response to someone else's
spell. So when they whip out something that's about to clear the board or kill one of your,
you know, they have a direct damage thing that's going to zap one of your most important cards
out of the out of existence. You can produce this instant card and say, nope, I counter that spell
or when there's summoning a creature that you really don't want on their on their board,
on their battlefield, you can without this thing to counter that that creature summoning whatever it is.
And again, I kind of try to look for things that, you know, something that specifically counters
creature summoning or a certain kind of spell. I haven't really looked anything for artifacts,
but I imagine there's probably something like that. Again, 25,000 cards. So I'm sure there's
something like that. So look for that counter spells. And then the next one I got is card draw.
Magic the Gathering is really, really strict, like draconianly strict, draconically.
They're really, really strict about drawing cards by nature, by the rule of the game,
one of the few rules of Magic the Gathering. Well, there's a lot of rules actually,
but I mean, in terms of the base foundation rule that you have to learn, one of them is that you draw
one card at the beginning of your turn. And that's all you get. So in a Magic the Gathering turn,
you're typically hoping to play at least one land card, especially at the beginning of the game,
and probably some other card, because now you've got land, so you're going to try to cast something,
whether it's a spell or you're summoning a creature, you're doing something. So if you do the math,
which I'm unable to do as I walk, but you can do the math. You're spending at least two cards
every turn, and you're drawing one. Your hand is going to become pretty, you're going to
deplete that hand pretty quickly, if you're doing that on a reliable way. So one of the categories I
would sort of I think of is some kind of card to enable you to draw extra cards. This can be
difficult to find sometimes. These are the cards. These are the ones that actually caused me,
these are among the ones that caused me to purchase just a couple more Magic the Gathering cards
after the fact that I actually play with, because I was just realizing in games,
I was depleting my hand. I was like running out of cards in hand, and I was reduced to like
essentially drawing a card at the beginning of each turn and playing that one card,
and that was my, well, I mean, if I had land out, I could do things with creatures and stuff,
but I mean, essentially I was not really, I was not empowered, you know, to choose anything
on my turn. I was just drawing and playing what I got or not playing anything, which was even worse.
So something that allows you to draw more cards, I feel like red is the worst color for that.
I don't know that I ever even got a red card that would enable me to do that, but I think I got
some colorless ones that made up for the fact, but yeah, it can be a little bit difficult
depending on what color you're playing. There's a way around that, though. Well, number one,
like I say, colorless. You might be able to find stuff that even though you're playing a red deck,
then maybe there's something with colorless mana that you could cast within your red deck,
or maybe you're not playing a mono red deck. Maybe you're playing a red and black deck or something.
Not that black is all that great for drawing either, to be honest. Red and blue, there you go.
Red and green, whatever your red and white, all of those colors have draw ability, so
if you look for them, so you can purchase a couple of cards again, four is my magic number,
and that way when you're getting low, you happen to draw one of these cards that says,
spend, you know, three mana and draw two cards or or discard. Well, that wouldn't be as good,
but, you know, whatever. There are cards that let you draw extra cards, which is great. There are
even some artifacts that you can put down on the board that just let you permanently change the
rule. It just lets you, every time you draw for the first, you know, on your, at the beginning of
your turn, you draw two instead of one. I think, I think I've seen that. So that, yeah, drawing,
it's important. So one way around that sometimes can be what they call in the magic community,
recursion. Recursion means that you have some cards in your deck that enable you to
rifle through your discard pile, your graveyard, and get cards back into play from your graveyard.
Sometimes they go into your hand, which means that you have to then probably wait another round,
you know, before you can actually play them, but sometimes they go directly to the battlefield,
which means that you, you play that card, and suddenly you have more cards on your battlefield,
like instantly. So yeah, you're not drawing from your deck. Sometimes that can be a good thing,
because in magic, the gathering, if you, if you deplete your draw deck, you're, what they call,
your library, then you, at some point you will lose, because you will be compelled to draw a card,
and when you are unable to draw a card, but are supposed to be drawing a card, then that is a
lose condition. So you will lose the game. So sometimes it's better to pilfer through your,
your graveyard, with what they call recursion, then it is to draw from your draw deck, which they
call your library. So that, that, the recursion and the drawing, those are the two that I purchased
separately. But when I say that I purchased them separately, I mean, I'm talking about like, I don't
know, 12, 15, 20 cards for like 28 bucks, I think. So I mean, it wasn't, it's not like I had to break
the bank or anything. I mean, 28 bucks isn't pocket change, but over the course of three years,
decided, or yeah, three years, deciding that, that I needed, you know, 20 more cards to sort of
round up my deck. I felt like that was not, that was not an unreasonable expense. Plus, I actually got
it with some of that money that I got from a sort of a bonus at work. So that didn't, I didn't feel
like I was actually, I mean, a penny saved is a penny earned, but still, look, I spent 28 bucks on
some cards. That's what I'm trying to say. So those are the categories that I came up with.
Once again, it's land, which I mean, that's a one time purchase. Your bargain bin,
general purpose cards, that's one time purchase. Well, all of these are one time purchases, I guess.
And then direct damage, counter spell, draw, and recursion. And I don't really think that there's
any other categories that I can personally think of. There are a bunch of categories that you could
think of based on a strategy that you eventually develop. But again, I don't think you're going to
be developing strategies at first, because you don't know what's available when you're first
starting out. So it'll take you a while to get to the point where you think, I can't believe
Klausu didn't even mention cards that give you a life boost. Like, what was he thinking, not
including that in his little intro, his quote unquote intro, what a travesty. Well, you're right.
I mean, like life boost cards would be handy, and it is a fair category, and it does appear in
a lot of different colors. So that would be a valid category to kind of like have in mind and maybe
build a deck or buy separately as single cards to add to your sort of arsenal. But then again,
I mean, it's not so general purpose that I think that it would be a category to keep in mind
from the start. Because naturally, the game is about depleting your life points arguably.
I mean, some people argue that that's not really what the game is about, because in a way,
they're right. You can get down to one life point and still be in the game, like as long as you
manage that one life point, whereas if you run out of cards in your draw deck, your library,
then you lose. So yeah, there are arguments lots of different ways, but my point is that life
boost is a feature, not a requirement, whereas I think drawing cards is a requirement.
General damage is a requirement. Land is a requirement. So those three, I would say are
requirements. And when I say draw, I guess I really mean also recursion since that is another
form of drawing. So essentially keeping your hand populated with cards. So that would be recursion
drawing. And then of course, just to have a deck at all, you need that general, those general
cards and some land cards. So those would be the really, really important ones. And then maybe
optionally, I would go, I would drill down a little bit and say, okay, well, yeah, I want some
direct damage. I want some counter spells. And then maybe eventually you'll decide, you know,
I really want some big blockers, just some walls to throw up. Maybe I want some cards to add to my
life total, because I've got a lot of cards in my deck that deduct from my life. So I need something
to counter balance that. Or maybe you think, well, I've really noticed that I'm having a lot of
success draining my card, my opponent of their cards, what magic calls milling, milling as in like
a flower mill. So you're milling your opponent of cards and making their draw deck, depleting their
draw deck thereby forcing them to lose the game when they, when they go to draw and have no cards
to draw. Or maybe you're, you're noticing that your creatures are great, but, but, but they get
really great when you add, when you boost them with extra, with extra strength and extra toughness,
power and toughness. So you decide that you really want to invest in some cards that give your
creatures additional power, because that's just the way that you're winning. All of those things
are great options. And I think knowing how to find magic cards online as individual cards and
knowing sort of the categories to search for, I think that's where it really sort of starts to come
together in a reasonable and efficient manner. Whereas the other way to do all of this is just to go
up, you know, show up to Friday night magic at your game store and just buy a bunch of cards every
week, which is fine. You can do that. You can spend your 20 bucks every Friday for a great night
out and you'll have a lot of fun and you'll have a lot of cards and you'll have a lot to choose from
and you can kind of assemble all of these components from that. I just find that to be very inefficient
and it kind of runs counter to sort of my natural sort of financial strategy. So I recommend
identifying the categories that you want to play with and invest in those as single cards and those
categories again. And I'll put these in the show notes recursion and drawing
general cards and land. Those are the, oh, and I forgot to talk about sort of hacks around land,
which are important. But I guess that'll be some maybe some other episode because I'm at home.
Now, so thank you very much for going on this walk with me. I'll talk to you next time.
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