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hpr_transcripts/hpr4250.txt
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Episode: 4250
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Title: HPR4250: Playing Civilization IV, Part 3
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4250/hpr4250.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-25 22:02:19
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---
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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 4,250, for Friday the 15th of November 2024.
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Today's show is entitled, Playing Civilization 4 Part 3.
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It is part of the series' computer strategy games.
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It is hosted by Awukad, and is about 15 minutes long.
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It carries a clean flag.
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The summary is, we continue our look at the mechanics of this game.
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Hello, this is Ahuka, welcoming you to Hacker Public Radio and another exciting episode
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in our ongoing series on computer strategy games, and we're continuing with our look
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at Civilization 4.
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This will be part 3 of the look at the gameplay.
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So we want to focus on this time as religion.
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Now in earlier versions of civilization, the role of religion was basically to serve
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as the opiate of the masses.
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If a city was getting too much unhappiness, you could pacify the citizens by building
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a temple or a cathedral, and each one of them would make some number of citizens more
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content.
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It was never a named religion of any kind, let alone any notion of competing religions.
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As you might imagine, that could be a delicate subject, so I can understand why they did
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it this way, nevertheless, it is hard to picture the sweep of history without religion
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entering into it at any point.
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In Civ 4 this begins to change.
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There are a number of competing religions, though I don't think what they do is really
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competing at this point, that will come later, particularly in Civ 6, but the religions
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we have here are Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Taoism.
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Now the way you get a religion in the first instance is by being the first player to discover
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a key technology.
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For instance, the first player to research meditation will get Buddhism.
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Well, meditation is a very early tech, so that presents a strategic question for you.
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Is researching meditation early on the best use of your scientific research, when techs
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like animal husbandry or hunting are out there waiting to be discovered?
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For me the answer is often no, and so I'm never really the one to develop Buddhism.
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And in any case, one of the AI players will get it pretty quickly.
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I may elect to convert to it later, or indeed to any other religion, and that can be beneficial.
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In fact I would argue that it doesn't matter in general which religion you end up with,
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where the choice of religion really matters the most is in diplomacy, where it can be the
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key to either good or bad relations with other players.
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So it is a step forward, but not a revolutionary one, in my view.
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Now the main benefit to founding a religion is that you get to have a holy city for that
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religion.
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This does give you some benefit, in that a holy city will receive five culture instead
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of the usual one for a city that merely has a religion.
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And if you have a holy city, a great profit can be used to build the shrine appropriate
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to that religion.
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Now there are religious buildings.
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When a city adopts a religion, you can build these religious buildings in it.
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For all religions, the initial building you can build is a monastery.
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Now the monastery will give you an additional 10% science generation in the city, though
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that does expire when scientific method is discovered.
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You also get two additional culture, and you can build missionaries.
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And these benefits do not expire.
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Note that you can build a monastery in the city for any religion that is present.
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So you could conceivably build seven different monasteries if you had all seven religions.
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The monasteries can be built as soon as you discover meditation.
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Now, so the first person to discover meditation gets Buddhism, but after that as other players
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discover meditation, they gain the ability to build monasteries.
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Now the next level from monasteries is the temple.
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Every religion can build temples as soon as you discover priesthood.
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Each temple adds one additional culture and makes one additional citizen happy.
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Also a temple can turn one citizen into a priest who is one of the specialist citizens
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you can have.
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As with monasteries, you can build a temple for every religion that is present in the city.
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Now we're going to talk about specialist citizens more later.
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The third level above temple is the cathedral.
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Now it's a cathedral if you are a Christian.
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It has a different name in other religions.
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So for instance, Buddhism, it is the stupa.
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Confucianism, it's the academy.
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Hinduism, it's the Mandir, Islam, it's the mosque, Judaism, it's the synagogue,
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Taoism, it's the Pagoda.
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So you can build those, but you can build them twice as fast if you have the right key resource
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available.
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So for the Buddhism, stupa, the Confucian academy, and the Taoist Pagoda, the key resources
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copper.
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So if you have copper in your empire, great you do it twice as fast.
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For the Christian cathedral, the key resource is stone, the same for the Judaism synagogue.
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And then finally for the Hindu, Mandir, and the Islam mosque, the key resource is marble.
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Now why would you want to build a cathedral or stupa academy, et cetera?
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Well, they offer you a 50% increase in culture in the city and make two citizens happy
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if this is your state religion, and make one citizen happy if you have incense available.
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And they can turn two citizens into priests.
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However, you cannot build as many cathedrals as you can temples.
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A temple is required before you can build a cathedral, to be sure, but then it comes
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down to one cathedral can be built for every X number of temples, and X is determined
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by the map size you're playing on, ranging from two on small maps to four on huge maps.
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Now, monasteries, temples, and cathedrals are all buildings you can build if the given
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religion is present in one of your cities.
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There is an additional level that can be built in holy cities.
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Remember, holy city is the one where religion is founded.
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So for a holy city, you can build something called the shrine.
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Now, each religion has a shrine, particular to it, but you don't build it the way you
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build other buildings.
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Instead, you have to generate a great profit, and the great profit can be used to create
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the shrine.
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You basically use up the great profit doing that.
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And while each religion has its own name for it's shrine, the effects are the same for
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all of them.
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You get one added gold per turn for every city following the religion.
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It's not just your cities.
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You might be able to convert other cities into following the religion, and when we say
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a city is following religion, we just mean the majority of the inhabitants are following
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that religion.
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And then, of course, having the shrine will itself help you to spread your religion, and
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a shrine can turn three citizens into priests.
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Now, spreading your religion.
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If you have invested the resources into building up your religion, you'll probably want to spread
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it.
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You can do this in several ways, but one of the first ways you can do this is with missionaries.
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You can train missionaries as soon as you build a monastery and send them out to spread
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the good news.
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There are two other ways religion can spread, though.
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One is through diplomacy.
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When two players are engaged in diplomatic discussions, one of the agreements that can
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result is that one player adopts the other player's religion.
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This will increase the closeness of the relationship in general, but can also happen when there
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is a marked power imbalance such that a strong player can bend the weak player to his will.
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But if you had never adopted a religion because you focused on other things, it might be
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advantageous, even if you're not a weak player.
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In addition to building the relationship, it would unlock some development paths if you
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wanted, for instance, to build more temples.
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There's also automatic spread.
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If there's trade access between your holy city and another city that has no religion present,
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there is a chance for your religion to spread to that city.
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Or conversely, you might discover that one of your cities just adopter a religion from
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a neighboring player, and that might be an example of automatic spread.
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The chances of this happening can increase if the cities are close to each other and
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will further increase if the holy city has a shrine present.
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The other way is to train those missionaries and send them out to spread the holiness to
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those heathen savages or even to any of your own cities that don't have a religion yet.
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A missionary is a non-military unit that has no military strength, but otherwise can
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move around, see things, and so on.
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And when it enters a city, which does not have the religion of the missionary, a button
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shows up to spread religion.
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This will not necessarily have the same result each time since there is a probability of success
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based on whether it is your city or another player's city and also based on how many other
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religions are present in the city.
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And regardless of the outcome, which you choose that spread religion option, the missionary
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is consumed and eliminated in the spread attempt.
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Now, you can always try with more missionaries, but note that no city can have more than three
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missionaries at any one time, counting both the ones that are trained and active, as
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well as those in the queue waiting to be trained.
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Now, there is also the concept of a state religion, and that is an option you have.
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You can declare a state religion.
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Now, an example of this would be England, where the Anglican Church is the official state
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religion.
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You can do this if you have one or more cities following the religion, and this can give
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you additional benefits.
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Each city following the state religion will have one additional happy citizen, or two additional
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if you have a cathedral of the religion present, and will generate one additional culture
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per turn.
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But in addition, you can have added effects from certain civics and wonders.
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If you have the organized religion, civic, every city following the state religion will
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have plus 25% production for buildings and wonders.
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With the theocracy, civic, you get two additional experience for all military units produced
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in the city, and with the pacifism, civic, you get plus 100% great person points produced.
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For the wonders, the Sistine Chapel produces cultural bonuses, the University of San
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Corps produces science bonuses, and the spiral minaret produces gold bonuses when they are
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built by a player that has a state religion.
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So should you invest a lot of energy into promoting a religion?
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That depends on how you are trying to win the game.
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Recall that with Civ 4, you now have more options than just military conquest or the space
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race.
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This will get better in future versions, but in this version it opens up some interesting
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options.
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You can always just ignore religion, and you can be successful.
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But religion is in the game, and your cities will adopt religions even if you take no action
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to promote it.
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There is no such thing as a religious victory in Civ 4 that comes in later versions of
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civilization.
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But you can use religion to aid in your quest for victory.
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The most important place where religion is useful is in attaining a culture victory.
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When you see how all of your monasteries and temples produce additional culture and
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that you can build them in any city where that religion is present, you can see how this
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adds up.
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Then adopt state religion, build the sistine chapel, and you get an additional boost.
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Adopt the pacifism civic, and you can double the production of great persons.
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And many of those will be great artists since you are on a culture path.
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Now if you are going for a military type of victory, religion can be useful as well.
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Monasteries give a science boost, and you need science to produce the best units.
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And the added happy citizens from religious buildings can counteract the war weariness
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that might otherwise hamper your military campaign.
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And if you have a state religion and adopt the theocracy civic, all of your units will
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be more powerful right from the start.
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Now for my part, I don't find that I know enough to predict what kind of victory I will
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go for in the early game, which is when religions are generally discovered.
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Well I don't usually make a b-line for a religion, but it is an important part of the game
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and you should learn to use it to your advantage.
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So this is Ahuka for Hacker Public Radio signing off and encouraging you as always to support
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free software.
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Bye bye.
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You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio, as Hacker Public Radio does work.
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Today's show was contributed by a HBR listener like yourself.
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If you ever thought of recording podcasts, click on our contribute link to find out how
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easy it leads.
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Hosting for HBR has been kindly provided by Anonsthost.com, the Internet Archive, and
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R-Sync.net.
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On the Sadois status, today's show is released under Creative Commons, Attribution 4.0 International
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