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Episode: 4439
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Title: HPR4439: Rejecting a show ?
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4439/hpr4439.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-26 00:43:47
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---
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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 4,439 for Thursday the 7th of August 2025.
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Today's show is entitled Rejecting a Show?
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It is hosted by Cannes Fallon and is about 23 minutes long.
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It carries an explicit flag.
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The summary is, the reason given is using HBR as a means to push a particular product
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or view.
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This show contains information that may be difficult for some people to hear.
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Please take the appropriate precautions when listening to this show.
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I repeat.
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This show contains information that may be difficult for some people to hear.
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Please take the appropriate precautions when listening to this show.
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Thank you.
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The following is a discussion on the male list.
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It is being read here and it exceeds the limit that can be possibly read on the community news show.
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The first post is from Cannes Fallon.
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Start on post.
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Hi all.
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This is to inform you that I'm rejecting a show on the grounds that it falls under hate speech
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slash pams as using HBR as a means to push a particular product or view.
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This came to light when I was scrubbing through the audio when posting the show.
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This is allowed by the policy we do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way censor any of the audio submit.
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We trust you not to upload anything that will harm HBR.
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Aside from checking snippets for audio quality slash pams checking, we have a policy that
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we don't listen to the shows before they are aired.
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The show itself would best be described as a religious sermon.
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Given that in a particularly sensitive topic, I have consulted with some HBR elders, who
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have publicly shared their belief or lack their own, to get their opinion.
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They unanimously agreed that it is pams, in the sense of, using HBR as a means to push a particular product or view.
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The point has been made that it could be of interest to hackers, however the full policy is.
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There is no restriction on how long the show can be, nor on the topic you can cover as long as they are not pams,
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and are of interest to hackers, so that doesn't apply in the case of pams.
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There will always be someone, who will click on a spam link, or the business model would not work.
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We are a tech podcast dedicated to sharing knowledge, and we are not topping anyone talking about their views on religion, politics, sex, distro on editor on choice, etc.
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At in part on, who we are, and it informs us as people.
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However this is also a hacker space, not a place on worship.
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At set I have been happy to see many shows, where people have been working on something for their place on worship,
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and have received support and assistance from people, who were not on that faith.
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We are a welcoming community that offers positive feedback, and encourages respectful debate.
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So if you have something to say then say it, ideally in the form of a show, and I'm currently posting yet another three shows from the Reserve queue.
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Links are provided in the post.
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End on post.
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In the next post can reply saying, start on post.
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For not to mention that, if anyone wants the transcript, end being me, and I'll forward on a redacted version.
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End on post.
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The next post is from Brian K. Averett, start on post.
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I'd like a transcript please.
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Brian in Ohio.
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End on post.
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The next post is from Jim Lennard, start on post.
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After reading the redacted transcript, I can confidently say it is proselytizing, which is not at all appropriate for HDR.
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The show consists of reading aloud some Bible verses, summarizing them, and ending.
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Subject matter aside, there's no attempt to provide commentary, insight, or suitability on purpose for hackers.
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So the decision to reject it is 100% warranted IMO.
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Proselytizing is sometimes a right of passage for newly converted people on some religions.
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I believe the submitter wants simply using HDR as a broadcast platform to attend.
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So, again, correct to reject this.
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End on post.
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For an explanation of prosatism we refer to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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Quote.
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Prosatism is the policy of attempting to convert people's religious beliefs.
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Carrying out attempt to instill beliefs can be called proselytination.
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Prosatism is illegal in some countries.
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Some broad distinctions between Christian evangelism and prosatism,
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regarding prosatism as involuntary or coerced.
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The two terms can also be understood to merely be synonyms.
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End quote.
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The next post is from Ken Fallen start on post.
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Can the people who requested a transcript please give your feedback to the list?
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End on post.
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The next post is from Claudia Omer under start on post.
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Hi, all.
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So, I'd been thinking about this one for a bit before I replied.
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I even had a talk with Ken about this because I personally think it should be allowed.
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Even though it was rough reading the transcript whisper generated,
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having seen something similar generated for other forms of belief,
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or non-belief systems didn't really change my mind much.
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And something being submitted with a similar structure as what was generated,
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I wouldn't have had an issue with it.
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Despite my Christian beliefs, I am open to hearing such things from other religions,
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or even humanists to get a perspective on things,
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and to understand why I believe, or don't believe, in such things,
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part of my hacker mentality, I guess.
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The only possible idea is with what would generally be considered occultic,
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with some exceptions, it depends on context, but I digress.
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If it was on something that really didn't interest me, or something I'm spiritually adverse to,
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I would have stopped and skipped the episode entirely.
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If maybe a disclaimer, or a better description of what was being discussed,
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allowing the listener to choose whether, or not to listen to the content,
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would have been better.
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Still, there have been other episodes in the past that have posted a particular title,
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and summary on what the content would be, and then talking maybe five minutes about it,
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and going on a tangent for the rest of the episode on things that weren't what the title,
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or some are mentioned, and yes, there was some proselytizing during that tangent,
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more political than religious.
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I was with that being grouped by the title, but I listened anyway until I just called them
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anymore.
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I guess that's me, though.
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However, the title, and summary on this episode were clear,
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and I didn't feel that anything was being pushed.
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However, if it does violate the rules for HDR,
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then I can see the insight on my disagreement on it in this instance.
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Of course, this would then have to apply to all episodes on similar structure,
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or anything that pushes a particular product, or new.
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Some people have submitted episodes reviewing certain products that they have,
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and I haven't felt no episodes as being pushing something on me.
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I can't remember if anything was recommended on any of those,
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but will the recommendation episode be considered as spam for pushing a particular product,
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or new, even if it was of interest to hackers?
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I know that one episode from that one submitter did,
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and without a clear title, or summary, why,
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then, was that allowed?
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If it was before the rule was in place, I understand,
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but then it has to be a rule for all, not some.
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Thanks for taking the time to read my rambles,
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go and be.
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Claudio.
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And on post.
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The next post is from cmart 387 start on post.
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Below is my response to care after reading it.
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Though, reading the Wikipedia definition of spam,
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I missed the use of commons that basically make it a deleted list of what is spam,
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and the multiple unsolicited messages appear to modify only one of those points.
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One, spamming is the use of messaging systems to send multiple unsolicited messages,
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spam, to large numbers of recipients for the purpose of commercial advertising,
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to non-commercial advertising free and prohibited purpose,
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especially fishing, for simply repeatedly sending the same message to the same user.
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I'm a bit ambivalent today, as Claudio points out there are other shows that,
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push a new, it could be an interesting series of shows hearing people's reactions.
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King has it.
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Asterisk original response code Asterisk I would consider this
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proselytizing, which fits the WKIP definition of spamming.
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spamming is the use of messaging systems to send multiple unsolicited messages,
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spam, to large numbers of recipients for the purpose of commercial advertising,
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non-commercial proselytizing, or any prohibited purpose,
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especially fishing, or simply repeatedly sending the same message to the same user.
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spam, however, appears to require repeated, multiple messages to be sent,
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Wikipedia gives the example of someone repeatedly posting messages on a message board.
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Since this episode is a single submission, and not 10 times,
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it doesn't seem like it fits the spam definition.
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I could see there being an argument that it's not of interest for hackers.
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Unfortunately both grounds, spam, or not of interest to hackers,
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are somewhat subjective, even though I think the right answer is a no.
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It's frustrating and I personally would write up with new express,
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but HBR is just not the right menu for it.
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Other thoughts.
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One, I don't know if we would find it acceptable for putting a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode,
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if it was posted.
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At Woodful Field, they're not editing on the submitted audio.
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We already inserted intro.
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Two, we could always tighten up the language on what is allowed to help in similar cases in the future.
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End of post.
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The next post is from my great start on post.
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Religion for absolutely no place on HBR info.
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And then religious speech attenuates any other faith apart from that of the speaker doubly so.
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Keep the one thing that has killed more people since time immemorial of HBR.
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End of post.
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The next post is from my great start on post.
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I didn't find the content offensive so much as irrelevant to HBR,
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and therefore not valid material.
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A show, in which some of it proudly proclaims their religious affiliations,
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on whatever flavor, while describing the tech tools they used to spread,
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the word would get the HBR tick in the box in my view,
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because it covers browned likely to be of interest to the minority of HBR listen as new to
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some mistakeable tech content.
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There is, of course, a gray area here.
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Should every show without some demonstrable tech content or angle be bad?
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Never been plenty over the years, and often may be very enjoyable listening to.
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Tech content should still not be the ultimate determinant, though.
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If, for an ample, somebody reviewed a distro, and then said in all seriousness,
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that if you do not use XY Madlyux, then you deserve to die painfully, and rot in hell,
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the tech aspect of the show surely would not save it.
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A slightly extreme example, I know, but I think it illustrates my point.
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End of post.
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The next post is from Joshua Nutt start on post.
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It is not often I weigh in on subjects, but rejecting shows is one I pay extra closer attention to.
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I read through the transcript, and every weekend at this show does not belong on HBR.
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Outside of my own beliefs about religion, this very much reads like a sermon, proselytizing.
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While some may feel it is of interest on hackers, I personally don't.
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Josh Sashadodo.
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End of post.
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The next post is from Haji Sarasthat on post.
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I'm going to be honest, I'm on two minds about this.
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One on hand, I can understand at this subject,
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Josh Kodzash be on sash, some sash interest to sash, some sash hackers, but I ain't one of them.
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I'm not sure if I'd able to spam outright.
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I'm also worried about the justification of, using HBR as a means to push a particular product,
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or new, as that seems like a pretty low barter cross to reject shows.
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My other mind, which is deeply personal, and admittedly flawed,
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thinks that this episode is at best in bad taste, and at worst just outright offensive.
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As someone of a face that is not Christianity, I'd be open to a discussion,
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or debate about religion, and hacking as an episode, if it were well done.
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What I'm not open to is throwing Bible quotes over the world like grenades, and calling that a show.
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It's frankly a new point I've had to endure my entire life living in the US,
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and I don't fancy doing so anymore.
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Hopefully this final opinion is more practical.
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I would still reject the show, but I would do so simply because it could damage HBR.
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If I were a potential HBR listener slash subscriber,
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and download an episode to evaluate whether I want to keep listening,
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and slash or contribute, and hear a podcast that is someone talking about Christian's
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scripture, that would be the first, and last time I would have anything to do with it.
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I can't imagine I'm alone in that feeling.
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Hedge.
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End of post.
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The next post is from the end.
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The start of post.
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My view is that the show shouldn't be posted to HBR feed, because it is not of interest to hackers.
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It's a Bible study like an Bible study you'd find in church.
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As far as I can tell from the transcript, the post didn't explain why they are presenting it to an audience on hackers,
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and didn't give it a treatment that might be of interest to hackers.
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It's a plain Bible study prevented us, if the audience can be assumed to be interested in Christian's scripture.
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A useful comparison might be, if you imagine an HBR show about the Kansas City Chiefs,
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that reads just like one of the roundtable shows on TV.
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Everyone would agree that it is not of interest to the HBR audience.
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Shows that are not of interest to hackers are likely to deal with subjects that are controversial,
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and that people tend to be very passionate about, because no other hot takes for which people seek an outlet.
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So, maybe there could be an amendment stating that shows featuring controversial subjects,
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such as politics or religion or health or strictest standard of being of interest to hackers.
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At way we don't have to man controversial subjects outright,
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but we set a higher bar for them in order to prevent abuse.
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The end of post.
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The next post is from Windigo Start of Post.
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You can count me among the conflicted.
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I think this show is clearly of interest to hackers, even if it is not a standard topic.
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We've had unusual shows before, and I hope we will again.
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But I think this show does approach, I'm slashing a particular product,
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or new, a little too close for comfort.
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The post seemed to mostly be sharing their understanding on some biblical verses,
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but does seem to tailor a message towards recruitment near the end,
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but is at very different from a post explaining their views on a project or distribution,
|
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and inviting others to try it.
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Would my opinion be different if this episode were regarding the text of another religion,
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like Moro's Trionism or Jediism?
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It does feel like we should reject this show,
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new to the proselytizing style of the episode,
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thanks to Josh App for the apt term.
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If the post wanted to record a more objective episode,
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explaining their interpretation of different Bible verses,
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I feel like that would be different.
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Still, it feels like a tough call.
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We can always use more shows.
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Colin.
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Windigo.
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End of post.
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The next post is from Kenforth and Start of Post.
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Nice thinking like a janitor here.
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We all agree that it would be of interest to at least some hackers.
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So we are arguing about, if it's spam, or better yet spamming.
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I still say it's spamming in the sense of,
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using HDR as a means to push a particular product, or new.
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What makes me sure of it is that in our eye 20 years of podcasting,
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and with all the religious folks here on HDR,
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no one has sent in a show like this before.
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So a janitor might ask, why did that post send it in our, and like this?
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Ignorance.
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Ah, not adding that.
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Trolling.
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All the nice people here assume that the person posting it in a genuine believer,
|
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but a janitor has to ask, if they are posting for the roles,
|
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hard to prove, and no point asking,
|
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let's give them the benefit of them out.
|
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Devotion.
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The need to spread their message out ways, the values,
|
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and norms of a community built up over 20 years.
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Looks like, using HDR as a means to push a particular product, or new, to me.
|
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I do get that calling a religious text,
|
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Pam, is not ideal.
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And I asked a risk-a-risk appreciate the tolerance the devout among us have shown in this discussion.
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So perhaps we need to replace, we trust you not to upload anything that will harm HDR,
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with, we trust you not to submit anything that go against the goals, norms, and values of HDR.
|
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Same rules apply to the janitors when applying this.
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First we discuss the issue with the posts, keeping the auditors informed.
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And if that doesn't resolve it we bring it to the male list to discuss.
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Thoughts.
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End of post.
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The next post is from Jim Leonard's start of post.
|
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In response to Windigo when he said,
|
||||
still, it feels like a tough coil.
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We can always use more shows.
|
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Colin.
|
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To compensate, I will be uploading two shows to account for rejecting the religious one.
|
||||
It doesn't seem like a tough coil to me at all,
|
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while some hackers may be interested in religion, religion is not an appropriate general topic
|
||||
for all general hackers.
|
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And while there might have been some sort of spin at God and being applied,
|
||||
something like, how these Bible verses apply to modern hacking,
|
||||
that wasn't done.
|
||||
Without such spin, the show is simply proselytizing, which is pushing a view.
|
||||
It seems incredibly obvious to me that the show should have been rejected, and it was.
|
||||
It's unfortunate that the discussion of the merits of a religious show has taken up way,
|
||||
way more time than the time that uploader spent on recording, and uploading it.
|
||||
I don't feel this conversation thread should continue,
|
||||
with any remaining energies spent recording, and submitting shows that
|
||||
asterisk or asterisk appropriate for a hacking audience.
|
||||
End of post.
|
||||
The next post is from Steve Sainer's start of post.
|
||||
At this point, I am not convinced that, based on the current policies and practices of HBR,
|
||||
that the episode in question should be rejected.
|
||||
For full disclosure, I assume that my world view is more or less adjacent to that of the
|
||||
contributors, based only on the transcript.
|
||||
I therefore was not offended by the content, but I can understand why others might be.
|
||||
Nonetheless you can filter my comments through this disclosure, if you so choose.
|
||||
One reason given for why this show might be rejected is that it doesn't align with HBR content.
|
||||
That it isn't of interest to hackers.
|
||||
However, the criteria that a show should be of interest to hackers has been purposefully
|
||||
left extremely wide open.
|
||||
I feel that it has been implied many times that there really is no matter what can be considered
|
||||
of interest to hackers.
|
||||
And, while most episodes do include some element of tech, or what you might consider
|
||||
hacker material, many examples can be found at don't.
|
||||
And the fact that this contribution is religious in nature can't be an exception to
|
||||
that and unless there is a policy that it's at.
|
||||
Another major reason given for why this show should be rejected is that it qualifies as
|
||||
Pam.
|
||||
And specifically it has been said that what makes it Pam is that it is, using HBR as a means
|
||||
to push a particular product or new.
|
||||
My first question is, where does that definition of Pam come from exactly?
|
||||
I can't find many references to it on the HBR website.
|
||||
But, assuming that it is a good and valid definition of Pam,
|
||||
I wonder how it applies to the episode in question.
|
||||
What product or new is being pushed?
|
||||
I find no words to the effect on.
|
||||
You should believe this, or if you don't agree then you are.
|
||||
The listener isn't advised to join a particular religion or denomination.
|
||||
There is no direct admonition against a different religion,
|
||||
from what I read, a contributor not quoting some verses,
|
||||
and commenting on what I mean to them.
|
||||
If that is pushing a particular product or new, then what HBR episode is not guilty of the same?
|
||||
At said, I do know that in religion and politics emotions can run very high,
|
||||
and people often do get carried away, and do push agendas, and views,
|
||||
and in doing so often penetrate those you have different views.
|
||||
So I can see why this contribution may feel like that,
|
||||
but I don't think that transcripts are either objectively any different
|
||||
and reading words about the nature of Linux, and then commenting on what that means to them,
|
||||
and why they like it, and then encouraging others to try it.
|
||||
Another definition of Pam that has been mentioned is that the contributor posted this episode
|
||||
just for kicks to see what kind of response may get, or to troll the community.
|
||||
Again, I know that trolling is common with religious or political messages,
|
||||
so I can see why this episode may feel that way,
|
||||
but I get no objective sense on that from the transcript.
|
||||
This is, however, a place where listening to the audio might give a different impression,
|
||||
but don't want to deliver it or betray that kind of motivation.
|
||||
So, as stated a firm, I have not yet earned a reason that compels me,
|
||||
under the policies, and practices on HBR, to say that this episode should be rejected.
|
||||
At said, I do share some of the sentiment expressed by others,
|
||||
that I don't really want to see HBR become full on this kind of content,
|
||||
even if I agree 100% with what is being said,
|
||||
I don't generally feel like HBR is the place where I would choose to share it.
|
||||
Many forums do have explicit rules against the posting of religious,
|
||||
or political content to deal with this,
|
||||
and I wouldn't be opposed to HBR developing a slightly more restrictive definition
|
||||
of what is of interest to hackers.
|
||||
And I was perusing the HBR website to remind myself of what is,
|
||||
and isn't stated regarding censorship, and Pam,
|
||||
I found several references to episode 2, 210 colon,
|
||||
on Freedom of Speech, and censorship.
|
||||
I listened to that episode, and was reminded of a previous episode
|
||||
that was posted, and accepted, but did generate some controversy.
|
||||
I just don't see how this episode is fundamentally different than that one.
|
||||
Best regards Steve.
|
||||
And on post.
|
||||
The next post is from Kenforth and start on post.
|
||||
High Steve.
|
||||
Fair points.
|
||||
To be 100% clear I consider every post to be a potential troll,
|
||||
and everything, and anything sent to HBR to be a potential threat.
|
||||
This comes with having to work from a position in 2010,
|
||||
where we were blocked across the internet,
|
||||
due to our site being overrun with Pam.
|
||||
We are now a welcoming community that offers positive feedback,
|
||||
and then courage is respectful debate,
|
||||
but that doesn't happen by itself,
|
||||
and we all have a role to play keeping it search.
|
||||
We've had to deal with our fair share of issues over the years,
|
||||
and the choices we made then may not have been the best in hindsight,
|
||||
but I hope you accept that they were made in good faith at the time.
|
||||
At said, there are some shows on the podcast
|
||||
that I personally am very uncomfortable with,
|
||||
and some new express,
|
||||
that do not reflect well on the HBR community.
|
||||
In the past we could let it go,
|
||||
secure in the knowledge that they were unlikely to be discovered.
|
||||
That is no longer the case,
|
||||
as can be seen by the recent Spotify copyright claim.
|
||||
The increased use of AI means that all our shows are available for scrutiny,
|
||||
and that we are a podcast, and not a podcast hosting platform
|
||||
this reflects on all of us,
|
||||
with the implications that may bring.
|
||||
Therefore, if there are any shows that are on the site,
|
||||
which you feel harm HBR,
|
||||
first see, if a response episode is sufficient to address the grievance.
|
||||
If not, then please bring it to the attention of the janitor at HBR,
|
||||
and we will see, if the concerns are rounded based on the same criteria,
|
||||
if the show was being posted today.
|
||||
And on post.
|
||||
The next post is from start on post.
|
||||
Hi. I have not read, nor requested, the transcript.
|
||||
Based on the description, and arguments I can smash the janitor,
|
||||
I am fine, and agree with the decision.
|
||||
However, I want to share an open thought I have.
|
||||
Beside the judgment of the content, and reasoning described I can below,
|
||||
the smash can smash should the decision take into account
|
||||
the previous interaction slash participation at the post,
|
||||
thus that win HBR.
|
||||
I mean, if the post, S, before foreign ample,
|
||||
thus given shows, which clearly are on Hacker's interest,
|
||||
given relevant comments on other shows,
|
||||
interacted with HBR Atmatrix,
|
||||
master non-etc, in a positive Hacker way,
|
||||
would not be taken into account for decision for this particular episode,
|
||||
or for that matter the opposite,
|
||||
if such interactions have been of a very non-hacker way.
|
||||
This in relation to, if this rejected show was the first known interaction
|
||||
with HBR, I'm a post, S, or in each show for the only reviewed on its own merits,
|
||||
regards Henrik Henrin, and on post.
|
||||
Okay, that's all the feedback I'm on writing.
|
||||
Tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode on Hacker,
|
||||
public radio exclamation.
|
||||
You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio,
|
||||
as Hacker Public Radio does work.
|
||||
Today's show was contributed by a HBR listener like yourself.
|
||||
If you ever thought of recording podcasts,
|
||||
you click on our contribute link to find out how easy it really is.
|
||||
Hosting for HBR has been kindly provided by
|
||||
an honesthost.com,
|
||||
the internet archive, and our sings.net.
|
||||
On the Sadois status, today's show is released under Creative Commons,
|
||||
Attribution 4.0 International License.
|
||||
Reference in New Issue
Block a user