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Episode: 4473
Title: HPR4473: HPR Beer Garden 2 - Session IPA
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4473/hpr4473.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-26 01:03:59
---
This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 4473 for Wednesday 24 September 2025.
Today's show is entitled, HBR Beer Garden 2 Session IPA.
It is part of the series' beverages.
It is the 30th show of Kevin and is about 29 minutes long.
It carries a clean flag.
The summary is, Kevin and Dave talk about Session IPA beers and review a couple for themselves.
Hello and welcome to the HPR Beer Garden Episode 2.
We've made it to our second one.
Yeah, this is a huge, huge milestone.
It is. I mean, I could tell when I was speaking to Ken, but he thought,
yeah, you're talking about this and it's never going to see Episode 1.
But we've closed it and we made Episode 2.
So, actually, at the time of recording, Episode 1 has just come out for those you're not on the future feed.
So, I'm not saying we're going to get this released on the same day,
but as of today, I'm recording, it's just come out.
So, same as last time, I'm Kevin and joined by Dave, aka the Lovebug.
How are you tonight, Dave?
I am really well, thank you.
It's been a very, very busy day for me today.
I started work at 7 o'clock this morning and I finished work at about half past 7 this evening.
So, I'm looking forward to that.
Yes, so you're thoughtless in need of lubrication.
You have earned that lovely beer for tonight.
I think I have.
Yes.
I really do think I have.
No, it's, although we haven't actually had any comments yet.
I don't feel enough.
It is only today.
We have actually had a few people talking to us, but we'll get that later in the show about giving us a wee bit of feedback about.
But we have a very, very different beer.
If you missed the last episode, we did dessert stouts.
This time, what do we got, Dave?
We have got session IPA.
So, if you think dessert stout, think the complete opposite.
Totally, total, complete polar opposite.
It wasn't until I was actually going through and researching and choosing the beers.
It occurred to me that session IPA is not actually a beer style.
This is episode two and already I've completely messed up the entire purpose of this show.
But I don't care.
I'm going to push forward purely because it may not be a style in its own right.
But it is classified as a sub style of IPA.
I'm not going to go into too much detail about IPA, purely because at some point in the future,
we are going to be reviewing other IPAs.
And I think that's more appropriate for those shows.
But just to, I suppose, round off what an IPA is.
It is a hoppy beer.
And that's its main characterisation.
It is much more hoppy than you would find on other kinds of pale ale.
The purpose of the creation of the IPA.
It was actually created here in the United Kingdom, but designed to be shipped to India.
Hence, Indian IPA or India pale, sorry.
And what makes it different is that because it's hoppy than a normal pale,
it acts as like a preservative to the brew, which means it can travel further.
And that's pretty much the reason why it was created. Go Brit.
So, the point of the session IPA,
because I have to admit, when I first discovered session IPA,
I fell in love with it straight away because I misunderstood what it was for.
I tried a session IPA and I thought, oh my goodness, this tastes amazing.
The flavour is so good, it's very robust, it's nice and rounded.
But then I realised that wasn't the session element of the IPA at all.
What session actually means is sessionable.
As in, it's a beer that you can drink over a long period of time in a single session.
As a result of this, session IPAs typically have a lower ABV than a normal pale ale or a normal IPA.
IPAs tend to be typically 5% or above give or take.
You'll see different numbers in different places, but just as a guideline,
it's roughly 5% or above.
Session IPAs, and again, they're very much varies, depending on where you ask,
can be anywhere between 3 or possibly even lower, and 5% ish as well.
Now, personally, I would view a session IPA as equal or less than 4%.
How do you feel about that as a number, Kirby?
Yeah, actually, I would agree.
I can even remember when I first started going out,
you saw the guys who would take likes off.
I mean, you're not going up stupid high.
But you know, like, guys who would have things extra like, say, 3 or 5%.
You could see them fading a heck more or quicker.
Yes, you know, I mean, if you're on a...
Well, certainly if you're on a mad, if you are out for a long night,
you would not drink a dessert stout.
Or anything like it.
But even that, like I said, that wee bit.
So I would actually agree with you.
That was probably one of the reasons why in the early days, if I was on a big night,
I stopped drinking McHughan's export,
which was originally called McHughan's export IPA,
was because it was 4 and a half.
And I was noticing that half, actually, over the night,
I was, yeah, it was hitting me a bit by the end of the night.
I mean, that was after too many.
I was going to say, when you get to about 10, it really does add up.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, what was interesting is that, please don't kick me out after episode two.
But in our kitchen, we do actually have a creator, Karlsburg.
Now, it was a gift, which we haven't consumed.
Caroline is actually on the search for some willing volunteer
that's taken off us at her work.
But these cans of Karlsburg, they're 3.4%.
This Karlsburg goal was that low?
I thought Karlsburg was 4 and a half.
The standard Pilsner one.
Maybe a bit of a triflation.
They produced the ABV.
I don't know, I don't know.
Okay, that is used to me.
Put it this way, I can honestly tell you,
the last time I had a pint of Karlsburg.
Right enough, this was on the mainland Europe.
And it was 4.6.
Right, so I have it in my sticky minutes,
a can of Karlsburg.
It says Danish Pilsner, I don't know whether that's a different...
No, that's exactly the same beer font as it came out of.
And that's a 3.4%.
So it shows you the variation.
I mean, I'm assuming the one I had wasn't genuine
from Denmark, Karlsburg.
So I always thought that something like Karlsburg export
would have been in the fives.
Or Karlsburg export is definitely a bit...
I know Karlsburg do a few likes of Karlsburg do...
In the UK, if you ask for Karlsburg,
you're either going to get that lag or you're going to hand
or you're going to hand, or Karlsburg special brewery.
That is a standard.
Which used to be 9, now it's 7.5.
But they also do...
What's that one? Is it trubor or something?
Something like that, it's called a...
I think it's classed us there kind of more,
that expensive version.
It's got a funny name.
It's something like trubor or something like that.
But again, it is a lagger.
Do you mean Truborg?
Truborg, yeah, that's it.
Yes.
But you've also got ones that Karlsburg also do...
Limited release ones like elephant.
They're about 7.5%.
They're quite high, maybe.
So anyway, this actually isn't a lagger review so one.
It isn't.
Actually, it might be interesting.
There we go, that's something we could maybe use.
This is for future.
So we could maybe actually do a lagger one.
Because not all laggers are in this inherently evil.
Just...
Most of them don't taste of anything.
It might actually be good if we got like a nice craft lagger
or a European lagger or something.
And actually compared it to the mass produced stuff.
Well, interestingly, I had a beer,
52 bucks, arrived the other day.
And it was full of northern monk cans.
And it had a lager.
And it had a pilsner as well.
So I'm actually looking forward to those
because I know they'll be at least something special.
But anyway, let's get back to session APUs.
I suppose my point was that you could argue
that this kind of Karlsburg is also a session of oil.
I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
But technically, and by definition,
it would be classified as sessionable.
The point of a session IPA or sessionable IPA
is that you can...
And again, like you said last time,
we're not encouraging people to drink large quantities of oil.
But if you were going to do that,
then you could last a bit longer
over a longer period of time by having a lower ABV.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Wholeheartedly.
Anything you want to add to that?
No, not particularly.
I mean, I did actually have a wee look around when...
I mean, I didn't want to put in too much research
for this one because I knew this was your style.
So I kind of just had a wee brief look around.
And actually, the first time session IPA was actually used
wasn't the early 2000s.
So roughly about the same time as pastry stouts
were still coming into being.
Oh, that's...
I didn't realize it was such a new term.
Very new.
It was...
Just for IPAs or for...
Just for the term session IPA, the term session IPA.
Right.
The word session, not necessarily the...
Right.
They were called low or lower or...
Actually, if you actually look at the history things,
they're the books.
It's funny.
They actually call it like pure...
They're referenced to money, purer.
There's like a purer man's being.
The kind of middle and upper classes
that have had their more expensive, stronger ails.
Whereas the working man's beard was always the much lower one.
Because obviously, it was watered down a lot more.
It was lighted out.
It was not as robust, let's see,
as it's more expensive cousin or brother.
Right.
Well, we've had a beard podcast and I'm getting thirsty now.
We're now about 10 minutes in at least.
So I think we need to go open these.
Yes.
We should crack these open.
Before we do, given that this is a session IPA episode,
which is one of my favorites, but one of your least.
Next time, the tables are turned.
Absolutely.
Yes.
But we'll reveal all.
We'll reveal it.
Yes.
Something to look forward to.
That's it.
So on you go, you lead the way you...
Can I open your beard?
You describe what it's like.
I'm writing home.
So this is Espiga, which I wish I put my glasses on there,
is a Spanish session IPA at 4.5%.
So by my own definition, not a session IPA.
But again, this is comparatively speaking in terms of IPAs in general,
which tend to have a higher ABV anyway.
So four and a half is still lower than typical.
So it's got a lovely can.
We'll put a picture of it in the show notes, the HPR website.
The beard itself is called crystalline waters.
And it's like a hand drawn picture of a boating lake on the front,
which is rather rather nice.
And let's see, we can get a nice sound effect on this.
Kind of.
So the poor is not too lively.
There's a tiny amount of head on the table.
It's actually not too late at all.
It's quite pale and just a little bit hazy.
Yeah, a little bit of hazy.
Yeah.
And this is what we're saying before about session not being a style.
This is a hazy up what seems like a hazy IPA.
But again, not particularly hazy, to be honest.
And I'm drinking it out of a Northern Monk glass,
which is interesting.
So I'm not the microlyram.
So here it goes.
So it's a little bit citrusy.
I don't know if it'll tell me what the hops are on the can.
Some do, some don't.
Oh, here we go.
El Dorado, Simco, and HBC 630 hops.
No idea what an HBC 630 hop is.
But what, they're not party or regular shopping list, no?
No, they're not.
Right, that is really nice.
So it's a little bit on the watery side.
So it's not quite as.
Sure.
A session.
A session is on the water side.
Yeah.
It's not quite as robust as other session IPAs I've had before you jump down.
I've had before you jump down my throat.
But it does have that bit of hoppiness to it, which is very nice indeed.
It's quite clean.
It doesn't leave too much behind.
But there is that typical IPA aftertaste that kind of leaves behind
that you would normally just tend to expect from an IPA.
That is very pleasant indeed, actually.
I was a little bit off put by the pale colour,
thinking that it might be a little bit more weedian watery than I was expecting.
But no, very nice indeed.
I would recommend that.
Espiga crystalline waters, 4.5%.
Right, so while you've done this,
this is when I may well cut and go,
this is a disaster if we have any accidents.
But I will try and pop this right in front of my microphone so you can hear this.
Ooh, nice bit of steam coming off that.
I don't know how much you're going to see that.
Yeah, yeah.
And drinking an American-specific designed IPA glass.
So...
Whoa, this one's quite the opposite, actually.
It's a bit lively.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So just for reference, that's about what a whole thing is,
but a third head right now.
I've never seen all that.
Check poor.
I did not do an aggressive poor.
Quite, actually, don't even see the bubbles.
They're quite lively.
Yeah, exactly.
I love the golden colour.
That does look quite fizzy as well.
Yes, it does.
So this one is Island Life Session IPA from the Orkney Brewery.
Now, the Orkney Brewery do lovely multi-beers,
like red magrega,
they do have a nominally good wee heavy called the skull splitter.
And here I am drinking Island Life Session IPA.
It's not fair.
Right.
Saying here, Island Life is a special beer,
much like life on our islands.
Orkney has been regularly recognized
as one of the finest places to live in the British Isles,
clearly next to Lewis.
Yeah.
So, like the easygoing enjoyment of a personal island retreat,
take time, relax and indulge.
Island Life is a pale golden ale
with citrus fluted rumours,
mouth-watering flavours of grapefruit peaches,
lead to a crisp and zesty finish
to be enjoyed time and time again.
Oh, this is interesting.
Pairishwell with oak smoked seafood,
pasta and light snacks.
Specifically oak smoked.
Well, that's a standard thing for the islands.
We all have our own smoked salmon,
so they're just plugging the local economy there.
Now, complete opposite of what yours.
Ingredients.
Water.
Malted barley,
which is the usual of a Scottish beer.
We tend to use more malted barley.
Malted wheat,
hops, the fourth and greenest hops,
and yeast.
That's it. That's all it is.
There's no more details.
No more types of wheat,
types of hops or anything.
It's just hops.
So, interesting about having the wheat in the brew.
This one doesn't.
It's water barley malt hops in the east.
But I did read that
the lower ABAs,
not the APIs as you said in last weeks.
Or as I said.
Yeah, you said it.
Yeah.
They do sometimes use wheat
or oats to
bring a little bit more substance
to the feel of it, the mouth feel a bit.
Well, just smelling normally pick up from normal IPAs.
There's this one definitely has
sweeter north than I was expecting.
It's got quite a fruity nose.
It's peachy.
There's definitely peachy.
And there's a bit of citrusy in that.
Can I actually get a wee bit of the wheat as well in the nose?
Does it have much of the malted barley?
Well, the hops are.
No, that's what I was saying.
It keeps it as black as possible ingredients.
So, cheers.
Yes, cheers, absolutely.
That's nicer than I was expecting.
But all of that fruit is in the nose.
There's next to none.
Right, it's okay.
No, it's not actually bad at all.
Because I am getting
malted barley and wheat.
Biscuitiness like a digestive biscuit coming through this.
Yes.
There's a bitterness of the hops that lingers.
That's actually quite pleasant.
Yep, I'm getting that.
That's not.
I'm slightly disappointed just because of how fruity it is on the nose.
That there's no fruit at all in the taste.
Hmm.
None that I'm getting.
The style of hops that's used in it.
Yeah.
So, I'm not sure where the flavors actually come from.
Yeah, I must admit actually this.
I've had a certainly had an awful lot of worse session IPA's on this.
I don't know. I think maybe the wheat, like you said.
I think that's maybe why I'm liking it a bit more.
I'm not feeling like I'm just drinking alternative to lager.
It's got some body to it.
Yeah.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised by that.
Is it going to become a regular no?
Half two.
I would drink that.
Oh, excellent.
No, I'm really pleased to hear that.
IPA is definitely one of my my go-to styles.
The session IPA's, I'll be honest.
Caroline tends to have those because she's not a fan of the high right ABVs.
I'll go for the eight plus where she'll go for the four or less.
But I think she might have had this and she might have actually enjoyed it.
Speaking of Northern Monk, I have a Northern Monk session IPA here.
I actually took that in case I couldn't stand this because I have had this.
I had a recent pod girl.
I didn't think I had any left.
There was one eternal.
And this one is just eternal session IPA.
Oh, no. Did I say how much this one was?
3.7.
So I'd actually as a proper to me session IPA.
This Northern Monk one is 4.1.
Okay.
And the one thing that I would say is it tastes more like a description of that one.
This one has got a blast of hopes.
And it's got a real lovely mix of fruit with it.
So to be honest, that one I'll give Northern Monk.
I love some of their beers.
I find some of their beers a bit meh.
I mean, I prefer to be honest.
They're not always winners for me.
I tend to find Northern Monk seem to have a very, in my opinion, a very creative brewer.
Let's put it that way.
And some of the times, those really wild and wacky ones.
Those ice cream classic ones.
I found them awful.
They were like, what was it?
I had one when I was away.
And it was something like a watermelon explosion or something.
And it was horrible.
It even looked horrible.
He poured it in. It was like a pink beer.
And I was like, no, this isn't nice.
But when they actually do an IPA, a pale ale,
and don't try and make it too fancy, they do it really well.
Generally phenomenal. They're really good.
This is the thing that I've noticed with stronger ale,
not stronger as in strength, stronger as in flavor,
is that you are very often get the promise of something
well above and beyond what you would normally expect,
whether that's chocolate or fruit or a sour or coconut,
stuff like that.
And it's the exception when they actually deliver on the promise
that's written on the can.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Now, an obvious exception to that was the birthday you had last time,
because I've had that and it is gorgeous.
It's absolutely wonderful.
I will say that actually it's funny.
It's dependent on style, especially with that complex northern monk.
Like they have got a strawberry ice cream stout.
Phenomenon, peanut butter and jam stout.
Phenomenon.
Yes.
But then they've got like a twister.
You know, like they're lice lolly.
We had that.
The twister pale ale, I didn't enjoy that.
I think I dropped halfway through it.
I was like, nah, I'm not enjoying it.
It was too sour for me actually.
It was actually a sweet sour.
So I tend to find out a lot of the time when they try and do too much.
It doesn't work.
Are you talking about the one with the five colors?
No, no, no, no, that was there.
Oh, okay.
No, this, you're not like a twister.
It's like a green and light green.
The can actually look like a twister lolly.
Got it, got it.
Uh-huh.
Well, they didn't call it twister.
They didn't want to get sued, obviously.
Of course, no.
Well, they also did one that was based on the fruit pastel lolly, which obviously was not
called down.
I didn't like that.
I didn't like that.
I didn't like that.
I didn't like that.
I actually thought it was better the second can't.
Well, I had four of them, which I had to bat on my way through.
But I expected to be smacked around the head with a bunch of fruit, the size of Buckingham Palace.
And it just did not deliver.
If you've ever had one of these fruit past lollies before, they are divine.
Following on from the success of Bertha, expecting that in a can, I was expecting so much more
and it really, really disappointed.
Yes.
I do.
I totally get that.
Yeah.
So I've got one other one here.
To be honest, I just got to just, I don't actually know why they pick this up.
I don't mind it.
Neck oil.
Yes.
Yes.
I don't mind it.
But I just don't think it's worth it to pay for it.
It's very expensive up here.
It, I think it's very expensive everywhere you have it.
Because if you get it up here and up up, it's nine pound of paint.
Right.
It's stupidly expensive.
Neck oil tends to be the beer that most pubs will have when they're pretending to do craft beers.
Yes.
I would totally agree.
I think someone told me that Beaver Town is now owned by Heineken, I think.
I was going to say one of the big companies bought beer tickets.
Yes.
Royal is definitely one of their good ones.
It's a staple that you can get in quite a lot of places.
If all they've got is that and madry, then I will go for the neck oil all day long.
Oh, yeah.
I would be the same.
That is definitely sessionable.
No question.
Yes.
So that was the ones that I picked up just for tonight.
I mean, I didn't actually expect to get through all three, but that way.
Now, when we finish this recording, are you just going to go and throw them straight out in the bin?
Yeah.
That's it.
I'll throw them right at the bin after I've emptied them into this glass here.
Oh, so you are going to have them.
Well, I don't want them taking up space in the cupboard.
Understood.
Yes.
Yeah, completely understand.
But, um, so what would you score Europeaners?
We were going out of ten, weren't we?
So I would probably have rated this one about a seven and a half out of ten.
Seven and a half, fair enough.
What would I rate this one now?
Well, actually, because it doesn't really taste of a session at P.A.
I'm probably going to rate it a bit higher.
It's certainly not going to replace my regular thing.
But, um, I do like the fact that it's...
Actually, no.
No.
I think I'll stick with you rather than ringed higher.
It's not worth an eight out of ten.
It's like seven and a half, seven and three quarters.
It's in that kind of region.
But it's not going down eight out of ten.
No.
I have to ask, um, given your affiliation with the brewery versus your prejudice, I'm going to say...
Against session IPAs in general.
To the two counts leaps are the routes.
So that seven and a half, seven and three quarters is actually your genuine score.
Or are you bouncing up or slightly down a bit because of one or either of the two things I mentioned?
No, neither.
I don't know.
I mean, at the end of the day, I've rated my favorite brewery's beer, some of them as terrible.
You know, and I've also rated my least...
Some of my least favorite brewery beers just mean, you know, quite a bit better, some of them.
Yeah.
I mean, it depends.
I have limits.
You know what I mean?
I think I would struggle to have any tenets, but really be able to do anything above four or ten.
That's genuine, generous.
No, not the lag.
I'd say the other beers.
Oh, okay.
You know, no way the lag doesn't get anywhere near what?
Tenets do other beers?
Yes, they do, believe it or not.
Actually, I'll give them the two.
Ten special is drinkable.
It's not fantastic is drinkable.
I would probably give that a five at a tin.
Oh, okay.
They're interesting.
It's a Scottish 70-shelling style meal.
Right.
Yes.
Yeah, so, okay, then.
So you've put me through session IPAs.
As you might guess, from my tone, they're not my favorite style of beer.
Well, to be honest, the reason why they're not my favorite style is because so often they
have this mild flavor of hopes.
And that's about it.
They're pretty generic.
They're just kind of bland.
I mean, that's why I'm not a huge fan of beaverton.
They don't have a beaverton.
What is it?
It's not snake oil.
Neck oil.
Neck oil.
You know, I mean, it's okay.
It's all right.
It'll do.
It's one of those 10 beers.
But certainly it's not going to be in my top 10.
And when, you know, when I'm going into a place here and I'm paying £9 a pint, I really
want to enjoy it.
Not cool.
That's all right.
So to be honest, the price of neck oil puts its rating down a bit for me.
Even though, well, even the kind I bought that can, I think it was in Tesco.
And it was a bit £3.90, which I thought was a bit expensive for us.
That seems quite high.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Because I was like, oh, I'm sure we can get £4 for less than £10.
Whether they didn't have it, they didn't have any multi packs.
I'm not going to buy a multi pack of that.
That grew up to myself.
Well, you can always send it down here if you do.
Yes.
That's what will be happening, yes.
So just to confirm then, Kevin, that the your opinions that you've expressed today are
specifically relating to session IPAs.
Do you have no general problem with IPAs?
No, I can no general problem with IPAs, just the session IPAs.
I'll discuss my issues with IPAs when we actually do IPAs.
Yeah, okay.
Point taken.
No, that's it.
So, yeah, so hopefully you've enjoyed doing this.
And hopefully listeners have continued to enjoy this.
We did actually, we did get some feedback and I'm going to show you today.
Now, if you want to contact us directly, you can do and ask what I'll did.
So you can either leave a comment on the HPR show notes, show page, sorry.
Or you could actually talk to us as I'll did.
We were just on some telegram and actually what he said worried me slightly.
Because listening to this made me want to start drinking again.
Oh, yes.
Yes, I wish to point out that really we are not aiming to cause those
are quick drinking to start drinking again.
But I'll did actually send us another email that city enjoyed it.
But he also said, sent one message to us recently that he has actually
picked up one from the garden brewery.
And this is very much a dessert stout.
It's the Tama Imperial salted caramel and chocolate biscuit stout.
And I was saying to him, let us know what he thinks about it.
And he also did point out that he would like to try this new type of beer called apis,
which apis.
As slip of the tongue, you want to keep this geeky.
That's what we'll see.
I'm going to keep this geeky.
Yes.
Yeah, well, certainly with an api, that is the key.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Right.
And so, yes.
So we've got as far as coming up goes, we've got we're going to have a new
style for you on the next one.
We're also doing, I've read, I think I was saying that's the day before the
recording started.
I'm now on book number four of beers.
So I actually do want to do a couple of book reviews because if I start to read
many more, I'm worried they're going to start a malcom meeting into one.
Another one was in which books said that and which books it is.
So we will do a couple of book reviews, I think as well.
Whether we both do it or whether it's just me, it's rated.
It doesn't really matter.
You can ask questions if nothing else.
Yes.
So I do believe is that a set a wrap?
I believe so.
Yes.
So do join us once again tomorrow for another episode of Hacker Public Radio.
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