Episode: 969
Title: HPR0969: The Crivins Audiocast
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0969/hpr0969.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-08 05:51:39

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¶¶
This is Michael. I have decided to listen to a podcast that he has about three programs.
This is the one of Kevin and Gordon, on the east side of Engelska.
The one with Skotska accent.
Podcasts are...
Crevans brought to you by Hansen Studio. We don't do DRM.
Hello and welcome to season 10, episode 1 of Crevans.
Otherwise known as episode 10 of Crevans.
It's a common mistake to make with a lot of podcasts these days.
They're all going...
They're seasons. But anyway, we're on episode 10.
And as usual, this is actually a more regular episode that's myself.
And Kevin, again.
Hello, hello, and how are we doing out there tonight, Gordon?
Yeah, I'm all right.
It's an interesting Wi-Fi stories.
We won't...
We won't bother people about it.
So, we're going to start off...
I'm going to use all sort of news and then a discussion and things.
So, the first story was something that I saw last week.
I think it was last week.
And I just thought this was brilliant.
It's a brilliant idea.
It's...
Someone has made a version of Tron, a little game Tron, that's made entirely in JavaScript.
It's something like 200 and something K.
It's tiny.
It's genius.
It's just brilliant.
I found it rather hard because I'm not used to keyboard controls.
And it's quite fast as well for the small screen.
But I just think this is genius.
And they did a version of Tetris before that.
And they're really in JavaScript as well.
So, yeah, I thought I would have been mentioning that to start with.
Yeah, it's a nice wee topic to start with, actually.
I didn't notice it.
It's an identity that people were talking about.
But I kind of logged in.
And they would have to be through it.
And I'm seeing all this, you know, 200 bytes.
And 140 bytes and one would take.
Are we talking about that?
I actually thought it was a talk about retro gaming.
So, to be honest, I didn't realise it was actually talking about tiny games that I don't know just now.
So, you actually went and tried them, but didn't you?
I haven't tried them yet.
Yeah, I tried Tetris.
And the way they've done it, unless I've just not played along enough,
it's all a little pound cymbals or harsh cymbals.
That's what's fallen down as a blocks.
And you get a single block and it's on or the two blocks,
which is two side by side.
But you can't seem to...
There's no other advanced shapes.
I've none of the analysts for like L shapes and things.
So, it's not really that time consuming.
You can't put them around or something.
So, it's not great, but the throne one is actually quite impressive.
The black screen with a white line that moves rather fast.
Considering the size of the screen you've got to play with.
And you die if you have the edge.
But yeah, the idea for what they did was they said,
they had to be sort of a competition or sort of...
Yeah, I suppose it'd be a competition to see who could create a game
and the least lines of code.
And I just thought that was a genius for what they've managed to do with that level, you know?
Yeah, excellent.
I'll need to have a wee look at that.
Hopefully we'll be good to see if they actually have more of these released.
It's amazing to see what people can actually do with just such a little amount of code.
It's utterly brilliant.
The one thing I'm assuming with Tetris is the old tune we love so much.
Now, I'm assuming they had that down to our T.
Yes.
Yeah.
The bush.
There's no audio at all.
And any of these...
I don't know if I'll do it.
It did not come through for me.
But no, there's no audio.
It's just a little bit of code.
Yeah.
It's good.
I mean, it does show you what is...
Actually, you could see yourself spending a bit of time in the Tron one just to pass some time.
Tetris is more of an experiment.
But Tron really is worth checking out.
And we'll put the link in the show notes and then you'll find a link to Tetris and that there as well.
Chances are they'll probably do a lot of stuff that's quite kind of cool.
But yeah, it's cool.
Oh, yes.
Always nice to have a wee bit of past time.
And I must admit, I'm one of these guys that see if anybody ever sees identical.
I've written a new app to a new game for the Android phone.
But it's not on the market yet.
So I want to try it.
I'm like, yeah, me, me.
So I've got a bunch of these half-finished games on my phones.
They argued.
I like them just to try it.
Just something different.
Oh, and on to our next wee bit here.
And there's one's regarding Wi-Fi.
Now, I don't think you can get too many hardcore,
just regarding, or stressy, open-source unfriendly than Texas, a state of Texas in the USA.
They seem to not be too keen to take up the Linux cores.
And a while ago, they were trying to have a real campaign to more or less tell people
it was going to be illegal to have open Wi-Fi.
And if they were unprotected, then, you know, they were breaking the law blabla.
They would just scale monthly.
There was no law.
It was just utter nonsense.
And after a group kind of set up saying, this is no law,
trying to become a bit more public.
They suddenly realized that we're back in town.
However, on one of the news articles we've got today,
the Australian police don't seem to have learned from their mistakes.
And they are doing the same thing.
So the official announcement is,
Detective Superintendent Brian Hayes said police have identified a large number
of homes and businesses within the Great Brisbane area with wireless connections
that are not secure or have limited protection.
These people may as well put their bank account details, passwords,
and personal details are billboard at the side of the highway.
Now, this is just utter nonsense.
Personally, I do have my password, my network password protected.
But to go to that extreme, you just scare monger as utter nonsense.
Struth.
This is basically a copyright thing.
The authorities through lobbying by the RIE and MPAA and all of that,
they basically want to avoid any possible loophole that,
at the moment, if you've got an open Wi-Fi and you get some copyright infringement notice,
and you say, well, look, my Wi-Fi is open.
It could have been anyone.
They don't like that little loophole.
That's why they're determined to get people to effectively make it a social taboo
to have your Wi-Fi open.
And then the step further to that is actually make it illegal.
So that's an offense in its own right.
That means that anything that happens on that connection,
they've got someone to go and slap the handcuffs on.
That's what it's about.
That's a hard sell to say, or it's for copyright infringement,
it's for the multi-billionaires in Hollywood that want this to happen,
especially since Hollywood, when my geography is not that great,
but as far as I was away, Hollywood is not an Australia.
It could be wrong, but it's not an Australia, it's an America.
So they're using all sorts of obscure tactics to try and get people to do that.
The thing is though, as much as they are square tactics,
there is also an element of public service to this.
A lot of computer users, especially home computer users,
they are technically clueless.
I mean, they know how to use Word, they know how to use Facebook and things like that,
but they're technically clueless.
I mean, how many times have you seen, have you heard of people who install a peer-to-peer program?
And then they don't realise they're shamed and tired, they're an entire PC,
rather than just one folder, because they don't know any better.
And that's how you find things like blueprints for military helicopters
because some contractors install the peer-to-peer program
and share the whole fucking hard drive.
So it's things like that, and people don't necessarily realise
just how open the networks are and how open their security is.
So, I mean, they could do it in a different way.
They could actually go through the educating route rather than the skirmongering route,
but the skirmongering route is all about copyright infringement and big Hollywood.
Yes, and yeah, I personally don't think there's a problem
with trying to encourage people to have wireless passwords,
but like you said, there's a right way to do it and there's a wrong way,
and I think this whole way about it is, it's just bullying tactics
and, you know, we've come back to this a few times,
but it's like that a courtroom star,
or, you know, the more you tighten your grip,
the more star systems fall through.
And the more it becomes a point of principle after a while,
the more people say you must do this.
Then, you know, something that could be a very reasonable request,
you're going to get people saying, well, wait a minute,
it's my freedom, I'm going to choose.
So just because of the way you're looking at this,
I'm going to say no, which at the end of the day
could actually be in theory that the person who's doing that,
who's consciously saying no to this,
could actually be creating themselves a bit of a security problem,
not as far as them, okay, they're not going to be prosecuted,
but it may well be everything that could be on their system
could be got to by a decent hacker.
So the other thing that they're trying to take a clamp down on as well
is that cafes and pubs and things like that,
anywhere that offers free Wi-Fi as an incentive
to drop people in and spend time having a coffee
and a burger and stuff like that.
And they're trying to clamp down on that for the same reasons
because of basically copyright infringement,
they're basically saying that they need to be able to track
everyone who uses that network and what they download.
And it's hard to monitor someone
if they can just join up enormously and then disappear again.
Yeah, did this not happen in the UK recently?
This is not going to be a president,
because they tried to arrest or tried to charge a guy who owned a pub
about downloaded copyright.
And it actually went quite far, but then they said,
well, wait a minute, this is an open network.
Anybody could have done this.
You can't blame the guy who owns the pub.
Wasn't this not kind of a big spark of all this talk?
Yeah, these issues resonate all around the world.
It's like little sparks that appear in different countries
and different examples.
And you're right, that was one of them,
the pub owner, who was targeted for that.
There's a joke, basically, it's a joke.
And from one walk of life from publicans
to truck drivers next.
Now, I want you to have a think
and I'm talking about taller listeners here.
The next time you download something illegally,
you download copyright material.
You are putting the poor truck drivers out of a job.
But it makes me sad.
It's just depressing me.
Yeah, this was a brilliant headline from TechDoc.
Wanted the truck driver who lost his job due to file sharing.
And that just caught my eye.
It's like, what the hell?
And basically, it's the eighties again.
Alcoholics are not, no, sorry, hang on.
The recording industry are households of America.
And the music and motion picture are households of America.
One of their, I think it was the MPAA.
They're not sort of known for dealing with reality.
And they went on, the guy went on some show in America.
Some TV show.
And they tried to spin it as,
it's the average person.
The industry is not just the big megastars at the top.
The big earning megastars.
It's a whole, you know,
a lot of different people who have jobs in the industry.
And they tried to liken themselves to protecting the interests of
the teleassessants who sell you popcorn at the fucking cinema.
Not sure quite where they get royalties for movies from.
And they don't even pay the fucking actor's royalties,
let alone people who serve popcorn at the theatre.
In this case, it was a, it went,
it mentioned a truck driver who delivers like the goods,
CDs and DVDs and that type of thing to the store.
And losing his job due to piracy.
That was the latest hook on this.
I mean, the Chinese hoops all the time.
And ticked up was basically saying,
we want to find this guy.
If I have this person, should I say,
we want to find this person and talk to them.
We wanted, who is this person?
Get them to get in touch.
We want to talk to them.
So if you know of this truck driver who has lost the job due to file sharing
that it's been referred to,
please get in touch with ticked up.
They would love to contact them.
Yeah, it's now that my last Kleenex is used up and, you know,
and I now realize that this fictitious driver doesn't actually exist.
I feel a lot better now, yeah.
This is a turn nonsense.
They're taking the moral ground just by saying, of course,
well, you know, if you do this, then it's not, you know, Tom Cruise
or anybody else who is way up there,
you are affecting their own people.
You know, I mean, they're basically saying, you know,
your granny is going to suffer because you downloaded that new album
and you did not buy it from the shop yet.
It's another nonsense.
I mean, really, this goes back to, this reminds me of,
I remember a while ago, they were trying to say that if you bought DVDs
from the, well, as we well know with the kind of local markets,
the Barras, if you bought them from then, of course,
that, you know, you were immediately funding major terrorist organizations.
I actually going to be in the Barras, you probably isn't too far wrong,
but for quite a few, they were talking about, yes,
your fundiness and your funding that.
And then they did that absolutely awful knock-off Nigel advertising campaign.
I mean, that was laughable.
That actually made me want to go out and download copyrighted stuff.
It was just awful.
Do you remember that one?
Yeah, I mean, first of all, for anyone who is ever thinking of visiting
Scotland for a holiday or something,
you've got to go to the Barras in Glasgow,
make a day out at the weekend, one weekend,
to go to the Barras.
It's a fantastic place.
It's huge.
It's absolutely huge.
It's a huge, free market.
And the banter is brilliant.
It's brilliant.
I've been there a few times.
And, yeah, a thorough way to enjoy it will be out.
But, yeah, there is a lot of play, a lot of stalls.
You can never remember where the Barras,
because you go there one time,
and then a week later,
half of the stall owners have changed,
and it's different people.
But you could explain the illegal nature of a lot of the stuff they're selling
and getting busted even things like that.
But, yeah, they are a joke.
And it's a usual OTT scare stories,
because they don't really have a solid label,
a legitimate thing from the consumer's point of view.
They don't have the moral high ground,
so they have to try and do something else to get the message across.
And that's why they usually link it to anything from all the buzzwords of the day.
Terrorism, you know, human trafficking, gun running,
you know, drugs muggling, you know,
anything that you'll, any bullshit that you're likely to believe,
essentially, is what they'll try to link it to.
And they just go over the top.
I mean, it's the same with when they try to do stuff to quote,
educate, unquote, get against drugs.
You've got a referred madness.
One talk of a joint,
and you suddenly go mad and kill everybody.
No, that doesn't happen.
This is the problem.
When they go so over the top,
it becomes a joke.
And the people who are doing it already,
or who have tried it,
they know it's complete box.
And it's just, it's so far removed from reality that it is a joke,
basically, it's a joke.
If they played it a lot more,
a lot more closer to reality,
then they might get people buying it,
but they don't,
because they don't really have the moral case to be able to do that and sell it.
Just going back to the bar as part,
I would like to say any listener,
if you knock it down weekdays,
it's not open and it's not really the type of day you'd want to visit
unless the market was on,
and get down there early for, of course, the best bargains.
So, I'm not exaggerating.
If you go kind of one o'clock after lunch,
forget it,
most of the places I've been closed down by then.
So, you want to get there as early as you can.
Right, and now from one bit of moral high ground to one part where they're definitely
not going to be taking the moral high ground,
where, of course, Microsoft are up to the little tricks again,
and they're ensuring that the European Parliament does not accept,
or does not adopt open source software or open source solutions,
because they have started to hand out free licenses for Microsoft programs.
Now, the FSFE, that's a free software foundation for Europe, that is.
There have been urgent people,
urgent members of the European Parliament not to accept these,
basically, because Microsoft just does not want to lose out in the customs,
and it's even just going to be to the case of,
right, we'll hand you some free licensing, blah, blah, blah,
because they know fine well,
that it is going to be effort,
it is going to cost money,
or goes non-costening for the software,
it is costing money to get all this new system,
put out new programs, obviously, need training.
So, Microsoft, they're doing their usual tactics.
They will try absolutely anything to make sure open source
does not get into any form of public,
any form of public computing,
if it gets any form of publicity,
it just does not want it to happen at all.
Yeah, it's mind share, it's about what you know as well.
So, if they've got governments and institutions,
I mean, whatever government uses,
that essentially leads what businesses use,
because they need to take the right with government.
I mean, imagine the UK government decided that,
we're going to use open document format for document files now,
and you know, we're going to use a proper standard.
That would force Microsoft to,
well, first of all, I would force them to send in the shelves,
and send them to do exactly what we're talking about here,
it's giving away free licenses and saying,
no, you can't have that.
And, you know, the whole poison campaign,
you know, open source is insecure and blah, blah, blah.
And if that failed,
it would force them to add in their ability
in Microsoft Office to support ODS,
which they really don't want to do,
because they want people to use their own standards.
And it's all about walking, basically.
If there's a bridgehead opened up
with stuff like Libra Office or even Linux or BSD,
but especially Libra Office,
it's about what people know.
They use at home often what they use at work.
So if people get used to that at work,
Libra Office, and they say,
oh, it's free at work.
I can get the exact same thing at home,
and it doesn't cost a bean.
I mean, the chances are they'll install in windows,
but that's not the point.
And that digs away the whole mindset of,
you've got to have Microsoft Office
to do proper office stuff.
If you're finding that at work,
at a government level,
that you don't need that,
then it starts to corrode the actual older walking,
and the whole bigger cards is vulnerable.
Yeah.
Do you ever listen to the podcast,
the Open Take Exchange with Darylinen Mark?
I've heard Darylinen Mark doing a few episodes
or in half of public radio,
but I've not actually heard their show in the run, no.
Well, they were talking about this,
this exact thing,
and no, this is what I want to be very careful here, right?
Please, Microsoft lawyers,
I am going to hear, if you're listening, right?
This is not a case for legal issues,
but I'm only repeating here.
What they've actually been talking about
was that in Africa, especially,
because there's a lot of corruption
in government anyway throughout the whole continent,
then any country,
pick a country in Africa,
any time the government,
pissy, right,
would go in with open solutions.
Darylinen Mark had said,
you know, it was actually scary,
immediately,
Microsoft would back,
whoever was the rival.
Now, it didn't seem to matter to them,
what exactly they were,
what exactly they stood for?
I mean, literally,
the rival could be saying,
right, we stand for cannibalism,
you know, we're the cannibal party.
It didn't seem to matter.
They were just literally saying,
right, there you go,
if you say now,
you are going to use Microsoft products
and only Microsoft products
when you get into office
will fund your campaign completely.
That was actually a really scary list
show to listen to,
that one episode,
to think just,
I mean, okay,
this is obviously reported,
but to think that they go to that extreme,
just to kind of keep their product
in the spotlight.
To me, there's a worrying lack of morality,
I mean, where do you stop?
Yeah, and Microsoft didn't get
where they are today by making a good product,
and they didn't get where they are today
by having some sort of fair competition
side by side with other products,
and managed to be the better one
or the better value.
They got there because of abuses like this.
So it's no surprise.
I mean, it's not so much,
Microsoft has opted its old tricks again.
It's just a case of Microsoft
have never stopped doing these tricks.
They've passed masters of that,
they're well entrenched,
and they do it all over the world.
They've got whole departments for this,
all over the world,
to ensure that monopoly continues
against the,
the never ending match
of open and transparency
and standard and things like that.
Yeah, I mean,
it's no surprise.
Really, this is nothing new for Microsoft.
No, not at all,
but it's kind of worrying
just the fact of the levels they'll go to.
I mean,
but of course,
you couldn't even,
I can't imagine that they would
even ever be a proper report
on this by a proper news story
because no doubt they'll be in the back pocket
and then they'll be there
trying to discredit the reporter
or even the channel,
so that isn't going to happen.
Now, one of the things
that has become quite a hot potato
really of recently
is bubbling and tracking.
One of the companies that,
who have been trying to make it a wee bit easier
to set,
I mean, you can set,
anybody can set the preferences
on their browser
with a wee bit of tinkering
to do not track.
However,
Mozilla in general,
if you go into their preferences,
it's quite obvious.
Some of the,
otherwise it's not.
But Mozilla been working
for this for their new
mobile operating system,
which is just in the general system,
wide preferences of
do not track.
Now, there's only one thing
that does concern me about this.
You can tell,
and say to your browser,
to do not track.
So, in other words,
it does not get your cookies.
Excitevers,
don't get your cookies, etc,
which means they shouldn't be
passed on to different companies,
which, you know,
should mean less spam
and blah, blah, blah.
Right?
Unfortunately, that doesn't work.
It doesn't actually
store up the cookies being sent out.
It's everything's still there,
but if you've got do not track,
then the recommendation
is that if you've got it set for that,
that the company does not pass on
or does not use on,
in fact, just deletes
the information tools on you.
Now, there shall be a bit of a worrying thing here,
because I've got to be honest,
companies who do this make money of it,
why, if they're not,
if it's not legislation,
would they even want to not pass this on?
That is a thing,
with the internet as
services,
our sites,
they're free at the point of use,
which the vast majority of them,
and it is usually,
more often than not,
the price to use it free of charge,
is the fact that your stuff,
you've been tracked,
and you've been profiled,
and advertising,
and all that.
So that's usually the price you pay for that,
to actually use the services.
And, you know,
I mean, could you imagine Facebook
or Google of that,
not tracking,
it's just not going to happen,
because that's,
that's primarily where they get their,
they get the fuel from,
is from users there.
So you're right,
I mean,
if there's no legislation to force that,
even if there is legislation to force that,
I doubt any of the companies would actually do it,
they would do it in PR terms,
they would,
they would go through some process
to do it,
if they were forced to,
and then it would be buggy,
it wouldn't quite work right,
there would be ways around about it,
to say that,
yes, we're not tracking here,
but we've managed to do it this way,
and just get around the legislation.
It's what all criminals do,
is they'll find ways around the,
the laws,
to keep doing what they want to do,
and the profit from,
while staying on the,
on the letter of the law.
It's a good idea,
but the fact that the vast majority of the web
is funded by this type of stuff,
I don't think you're going to get any buy-in at all
from companies,
you'll get a few,
you'll get some ethical ones
who would do it
because they believe
and privacy and stuff like that
if people opt out,
but, you know,
the vast majority will say,
hey, fuck that,
we'll do what we want.
It's sort of like,
any kind of self-regulation
when there's,
when there's an outcry building up,
over some industries,
actions about doing something.
When it gets to the point
that politicians are involved
and start questioning
the companies and the individuals involved
and they start laying down hints
about what they could do,
usually the first thing
that comes out of the company's mouth says
or self-regulation
will put in these recommendations.
That's,
you don't need to bother setting down laws.
We'll just,
we'll self-regulate
all the file
that the suggestions they make
are only a fraction
of what's needed
and they've no intention
to go through them anyway.
That is what it seems to me
as just another sort of version of that
as you're right.
I mean,
very few companies
are going to opt in it,
which means it's,
it's kind of pointless.
The only option you've got
is to try and manually do it
by,
what it's disabled
and third party cookies
and have them
go through the various
hoops to protect yourself
because no one's
going to protect you
for you.
No, definitely not.
And to be honest,
if you're a
half-savvy tech user,
then it's not
really that difficult to do.
But
it's one people,
I feel sorry for people
who maybe
those intermediate users
who, you know,
they know how they're going
to edit in preferences
blah, blah, blah.
They probably honestly believe
they're actually disabled
in it by having this
do not track.
But it's just one
of those things.
I mean,
Google and Facebook.
How much do they
charge you for using
their services?
Monetarily?
Nothing.
It's not a paid-for-service.
They make their money.
And they didn't become
two of the biggest
computer companies
by doing things ethically
and having
absolutely no advertising
blah, blah, blah.
They are monitoring you
ever so closely.
It doesn't take much
for you to see.
Every time you put in a
search saying,
we recommend this
for you.
You know,
it's the same with Facebook.
I remember when I used
to actually have a
Facebook profile.
I would get constant
adverts for Linux
system administrators.
Blah, blah, this.
And I was like,
oh, this is just getting
too annoying.
But anyway,
I think we've probably
finished up on this section.
That's just actually
a good timing.
We've just come up to
half-hour.
And we are going to play
a bit of getting start
a bit of rock here.
And this is amity
and fame.
Who had a great band?
If you haven't checked,
check them out.
The first album is
on Jemento.
And it's called Dinner
for One.
The second album is
available on their website.
It's called Through.
I have both of those
are brilliant.
And this track is New
Born Sun.
Enjoy.
I have both of those
are missing.
I have both of those
are missing.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
I have both.
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I have both.
I have both.
I bring me some life and less time.
I bring some life and less time.
I bring some life and less time.
I bring some life and less time.
I bring some life and less time.
I bring some life and less time.
It's our time to go down and shine
It's our two four and five
It's our music, our song
And sure to throw out you will see
We'll change as fast as you'll be free
When you accept to share with me
You'll step in in our choir tree
We'll change as fast as you'll be free
Now thank you for trusting my help
Stand in here and I'll know the time
Still remember me without my soul
You'll love so much within you
You'll come at me again, you'll rule
You'll come at me again, you'll rule
When you accept to share with me
You'll step in in our choir tree
We'll change as fast as you'll be free
And we're back
And even the non-take-a-user, especially in the UK this last couple of weeks
would have struggled to not notice in the news that a certain franchise that has become quite a regular place on the UK High Street has actually gone into liquidation
And this is the store game
Now actually I didn't know this but game is also owned
Also owns the company I thought was a driver as game station
So they're actually one and the same
So now this does obviously mean there's a lot of potential redundancies
They haven't closed all their stores yet
They did actually close some very quickly
But they haven't closed them all yet
This will leave obviously in a bad climate a lot of people at a work
But that's not really the angle we're going to look at
We want to actually just discuss tonight how in fact game made its end
So do you want to start off with that?
I've not been a gamer for a while
But when I was a game was one of the regular places you were going and looking and seeing new releases and sometimes buy stuff
But game had a lot of issues
And it seems to be quite a common experience from people all over the country
And game stores where you go in and they've got a bossate of basically bouncing on people and trying to sell you stuff
And game, I mean that, that irritates me no end and at any store in regard to what it is
My bossate is if I want help I'll ask for it
And I don't want someone to sort of pounce on it
On me as soon as I come in the door
But game always do that
They've got to do it as part of their stuff policy
So I mean the thing is with gamers
As chances are most people who go into these to buy games know what and stuff they like
They are the people that are going to be experiencing it
And they are the people who are going to be playing the games
And they are the people who are going to have either played the game at their mates house
Or they've played demos of it
Or they've seen reviews
And they'd basically know what type of thing they're looking for
They know what type of I mean for a while
THC were absolutely awful
Anything they had was terrible, terrible games
And people know what they want
They don't need anyone to help sell them stuff
But game never quite grasped that concept
Yeah I was back in my windows days
I was a big user of games as well
Obviously one of the things that it's a bit disappointing with Linux
Really the game scene hasn't caused up
Well it's getting a lot better
I must admit this mission last year and a bit that it was
But I remember going into game
I've been into game once inside became a Linux user
And I mean talk about the customer who was right
She was not on the policy this day
Because I just thought well I wondered if they do actually have any
I didn't expect there to be a full section of Linux games
I'd be realistic
But I thought well they had a game store
Let's see if they've got any native Linux games at all
To see if they might have the odd one or two
And I thought well if they do even if they're crap games
I'll buy them just purely to show you know to show up and to support for them
And I went and asked
I said do you have any games that are native for Linux?
The first guy asked on the till
He said what's Linux? What's that?
Is it a new console?
I'm not going on my word
And the other guy
He said reaction was iconology
What he said was why would we?
Linux is a pile of crap
Well needless to say I never went into a game since then
So this doesn't make me sad to see game disappearing
At least one of the things I have found with local game stores
Not so much the game chain but localised ones
They will actually at least accommodate you
And a lot of them will say well we can try and get some in
If you can tell us a couple of suppliers or makers
But I could not believe how rude that guy was
So that was my last experience of game
It's not just the condescension
And the pouncing on people as well
It doesn't work
It's the whole value for money
I routinely found that game
Were rather expensive
For the games
Unless it was like the grade A, the brand new releases
Where they had no choice but to compete
Otherwise people would go on the week of a new release
If they didn't compete in pre and price
People would go to other stores and buy them
So they had no choice but other than that
Or they were on the expensive side
And then they did like pre-owned games as well
Which a lot of people now are
Because instead of paying like 45 bucks, 50 bucks for a game
I think it's going down a little bit now
But instead of doing that
They're only wait three or four months
And then either get it pre-owned or something
That half the price
But even that when you trade in a game
A game there
They'll give you peanuts for it
And then when they put their pre-owned sticker on
It's huge, they put a huge mark upon it
So that it's only like two or three bucks cheaper than the brand new one
So there's a huge mark up there
On stuff that they do
They're condescending
They jump on people as soon as they come in the door
All in all
It's a whole recipe for a failing
It's a way not to run a business
Basically is what games seem to be concentrating in
And I think what they were going for
As I mean as you said, you were kind of surprised that
They owned what youth thought was the rival as well
I thought they did, but I was too sure
When they go and buy rival chains
So that they are the only game, the knowledge basically
And they are the only game in a short and a short and a run out of time
I think the logic is, we're a monopoly, we get a monopoly
That customers will have no choice but to come to us
And put up with their bullshit
Put up with those pouncing on them when they come in the door
Put up with our condescending attitude
And put up with our high-prite high-pricees
The problem is they are not a monopoly
They may be a monopoly as far as independent games
Stores are concerned
But they're not a monopoly on where people get their games
No, definitely not
And the other thing that was interesting was
To read when you're talking about
This was three years ago
They were recommended
That group was set up because obviously
Game have been struggling for a while
It's not just for just now
They were recommended
That in the future, in the next few years
That you'd see chirping over from people buying physical games
Like in the box and off the shelves
To digital downloads
And they were actually recommended that they should produce
This and they should produce actually a download store
And it is also as well
I'm just reading this here
For using the game brand to
Parodigital storefronts on the PC's console
It's another platform
So in other words, you could maybe get
Your game app on the Android phone
iPhone or on the PC
Something similar to Steam or Dezura
But it seems those have been totally ignored
And in fact, it said
The CEO at the time
Was her name Lisa Morgan
She actually said
That this was completely unnecessary these steps
And I mean
For some people that are in the technology game
Okay, it's gaming
But I cannot believe somebody could actually be that blind
To say no, no
What we're doing, we're going to continue on with
Because it's quite obvious
People are buying less and less physical games
I mean, all you're going to do is
Have a wee look at the console industry
People are buying less and less
And when people are buying games
This drives me bananas for one
The games are getting shorter and shorter
But they're more concerned
With getting played over
Xbox Live
Or whatever the PlayStation equivalent of that
Is the PS3 equivalent of that
It's more online gaming
It's not as much a physical thing
It's pain for your download
Getting it there and then
It's not so much going and getting the box
Yeah, I mean, certainly
When I was a gamer
And I'm talking about the early days of the PS2
And that was at a time
Where console gaming
Over a network was
It was a rare thing
You could buy a modem for the PS2
But it was expensive and you
It wasn't really as it had on
And the Xbox
I can't remember
The whole network thing
Was the
The exclusive domain pretty
Almost exclusive
Of the Windows PC
Platform and console games
Hadnt went down that way
And even as far as
Delivering games
Buying the games is concerned
You couldn't really buy them as
A download you would buy them
Because they were so big
Expensive and it wasn't as widespread
For regular consumers
Actually buying a game
That would take like
Two or three gig
Was just a not an option
A feasible option and people
Were happy to buy the discs
The problem that
I mean this goes to
Not just gaming but our
All sorts of creative niches as well
As if you get the
Grade A titles, the top titles
You're being hammered
By the supermarkets
So you buy them in and buy the top
Ten or top 20 games
Top 20 books, DVDs,
Blu-rays, whatever it is
The stuff that's charting
The stuff that's being push
Really heavily
And expected to sell
By the bucket load
And the weeks and months
And it comes out
They are buying them in so much bulk
So if you go to something
If your new game comes out
You may be able to try it
And play it in a game to have a quick
Game of it to see what it's like
But it may be ten quid more expensive
There than saying
That's fine and over it's like now
I'll go to Tesco and buy it
And I'll go to Safeway and buy it
So they've been undercut over there
As far as the regular games are concerned
Only niche they've got then
Becomes the more obscure stuff
Not being
Other back catalogs
Because the supermarkets
Buy and bulk and expect to sell
It through and bulk
And as soon as it
Tips below a certain sales point
As soon as it goes out the charts
They send them all back
And you can't buy them
They had only place you've got
Is the independent places like
Game
So that was the physical thing
Someone who was in charge of a company
And presumably
Very well paid
For that role
And presumably taking out
Wards of millions of pounds and bonuses
For doing such a bang up job
To not see that the future
Was online that is
That is, that is
I can criminal as far as
Shareholders are concerned
That's obvious
I mean, you don't need hindsight
And online and getting your content online
And download it
And you know, that is
That is today, that has been today for a while now
And it's just, it's crazy
They didn't see that coming
I mean, okay, you could say
Well, we see it coming, we don't know
The like it, but we have to adapt
Somehow, and at least have a goal
Try and you adapt it
We've fighting the fight
But to just stand up and say, oh no, we don't want that
It's just sticking your head in the sand
It's like legacy industry
We don't want to adapt
To the way the customer wants
Because it's not as much profit in it for us
We would rather force people
To do it our way
When they clearly don't want to
Like I said, I can't get over this from my head
It sounds like actually
The company was being run by somebody
Who wasn't tech savvy at all
Which, you know, it baffles me
It really does
I just cannot get my head around how anybody
You know, maybe, okay, 15 years ago if they had said
Well, we don't want to go in that
And then, you know, five years ago
Saying, well, you know, I think it's time
We started moving
Even that would have been more acceptable
But we're talking three years ago here
We're not talking a long time ago
I mean, my first broadband connection
Was when
2001
It was 2001
It was the first time I had broadband
So, I mean, we're talking
It's eight years after broadband was regular into homes
I mean, I wasn't the first to get broadband
I had to kind of wait until I got afforded
Because it was quite pricey first of all
So, we're talking about eight years after
It was the norm in homes
And this person
And that's, I mean, Xbox Live
And all that must have been out by then
I mean, how could there be
That blinker
To say, okay
How could anybody be so blind
As to think, no, this is just a passing fad
People are going to want to come in
I mean, not even
With the, just the case of the download
But even if you want to think about it from the
What, you know, going green has been very, very much on people's agenda
Recently, a lot more than this been
You know, so you're talking, well, there's no physical
Plenty in there, there's no delivery, there's no
You know, CO2 might
You know, so you're talking
Well, there's no physical
Plenty in there, there's no delivery, there's no
Ty ojos, there's no packaging to dispose of
There's no treatment
actual
Shopped to go get it
You know, I just don't get the
The blinker'sness of the
Continuous, I mean hills
There's no packaging to dispose of
There's no script to go get it
You know, so
guy. You know, I mean, it just seems it was just an utter disaster. I think I would be if I was
a shareholder, I would want to be going after this day for that for being so short-sighted and
making so many wrong decisions. And usually when it comes to legacy businesses, they don't want
to risk anything that might just be an marginal case or an outside horse coming up on the side
and sort of breaking through the norm. They don't want to risk that, especially if it cannibalises
their current thing and they're really resistant to adopt anything new. But there's two words here
that you cannot ignore. You've got iTunes and Steam. I've never used either. But as far as I'm
aware, both iTunes and Steam are household names, the world over. PC gamers, Windows PC gamers,
should I say, they love Steam. They use Steam. There might not be much of an alternative. I don't
know. But Steam is a household name where it's a platform and people go and then sign up with
their credit card and whatever and download games and demos and add-ons for games and all that.
It's a platform to get games onto the front of the machine. And then iTunes, backed by Apple,
created by Apple, where you can have, you can buy music, you can buy videos and whatever else they do
and have them syncing across to your different devices. They have both been major mainstream
services for a long time now. They are major mainstream brands. They are Apple, certainly. They're not
one of the richest or most profitable companies on the planet with more cash than fucking God.
If they don't have a successful strategy. And that's what it is. They've proven. They've proven,
along with the Steam, that this is the present. This is what people are expecting. And even
taking the whole and the app store model as well, that's the same thing. People are now used to that.
And that's nothing new. So for someone to sort of see these major mainstream things,
and still not get it, it's just as clueless. Basically, it's like Frank's side bottom running
the company. But even not getting the future or not getting the present, even, it's not even the
future. It's the present about how people want to consume content, download TV shows to their
stream them to their tablets and the phones and stuff. It's not just that. The other thing they
had, when they tried to get into the monopoly thing, the monopoly angle of we own all of the
independent retail of all game stores. You see plenty of examples of this where you've got
like three game stores on the same street. And all of them have worked on a long-term leases
for the high street. And they're all competing with each other. And all three of them are wasting
money on a long-term rents and playing staff and paying insurance and all this. So they're basically
hemorrhaging money because they've got too many stores, basically. The one thing that
you see me raise a good point there. But the one thing I've just thought about is people do want
the physical. This is one, you talk about iTunes as well. I don't know why, but it's the one
area where the music is an advantage over gaming. With music, people do still like to have physical.
I mean, I must admit, I love to get us a CD by a CD or for band and support them. Or as recently
actually I bought an LP. But gaming's never had that. Not as far as to my knowledge. Okay,
you will get some people. I mean, I remember back in the days of the big box games. I mean,
those boxes came out. There were like two VCR videos put together. I'm just video tapes put
together. They were huge. And you did get some people who, when they released them as DVD style
covers, they were saying, oh no, I like the big box games. You did get some people like that.
But overall, the gaming industry does not get people with that kind of nostalgic thing with a
coin. I mean, you still do get an awful lot of people, like I said, buying the physical versions
of music. But that has never ever translated to gaming. Not 100% sure why, but maybe it's just
the gamers just adapt quicker. Maybe just wouldn't be probably more in the lines of cutting-edge
technology. Maybe we just don't have nostalgia. I remember nostalgia to us. Maybe it might be
downloading the ROMs in the 8-minute for the Atari 2600. I'm not 100% sure. But that is one
place where gaming does not work. So I mean, yes, you could say, well, why do we still have music
stores? But I think they are feasible. They do work. And as you can see now on the high street,
well, not new to the high street, but certainly off the side streets. There are more and more
independent kind of record. I mean, when I say record, I mean, LP shops, springing up.
I don't think whatever going to get that sadly with the gaming industry at all. I mean,
I remember back when I started gaming. And when I first started gaming, it was the old
Sinclair spectrum. I just love going to the gaming shops and used to see wall-to-wall tapes.
Most of them would screech for 15 minutes and then crash and you'd have to rewind them and play
them again. But that's not the point. I sadly, I do see that the traditional computer gaming
store, especially the independent one. I always like the independent ones. That is a dying
breed now, sadly. I don't think we're going to see them at very much longer. Because of,
well, I mean, obviously there's a reason for it because the likes of Steam, online gaming,
when you look at one of the most popular games for current market just now is Minecraft. There
is no physical copy of it, not a legal one in it, as far as I know.
Now, well, first off there, I had a point and then I'll come back to that. But on the second
thing you were talking about, about the independence, actually, I don't know if you could really call
game independent, to be honest. It is a chain store. There's so many stores all across the
the Lincoln Bridge of the country that they are a chain store and they're not independent, really.
No, no, I was actually talking about the independent gaming stores. As a member of those
wee computer shops, they might have been called, well, there was two here called these store and
we're computer shop. There was one I used to visit and in Venice, just used to be across
from the back door of the Cali Hotel and it was called the Inverness Computer. That's the
kind of ones I'm talking about. There's a lot of these levels. No, no, I agree with you there,
totally. Game itself was a chain and it was a blooming big chain.
I know, I mean, to be honest, the two shops you were talking about there were part of the D chain.
No, I know what you mean. I'm just saying that I think we'd probably wrongly been
talking about game as independent. I'll just start to mention that. But the thing is,
there's really, there's always going to be a place for truly independent
sellers of things like games and books and movies and audio and all of that. Question is whether
it can survive as a physical thing or not, or whether it really would need to be online.
Because the one thing that the big stores, as I said earlier, that the one thing they can't do
is offer a wide selection of stuff. I mean, you go into an HMB store and you're looking
for some artist's back catalog and you see some album that was out in 1974 and it kind of
didn't excel that way on. It's almost been on the brink of being deletive,
being deletive of the catalog, but they still got two copies sort of thing.
There's always that niche and there's always the value and the staff there having knowledge of that
and being able to say, oh, we've got almost a collector's thing. There's always going to be a
value in that, but whether it's going to be a value or profit or there was a physical store as
another case, likely not. So these independence, there's always value in that. But back to what
originally was going to say this, but was people are buying something that's different from what's
on sale. When companies sell, I mean, say it's EA games, when they sell FIFA, they're selling it
as they're putting, they're telling you the value is in this and this game, you know, in this
desk and in this box and you've got the only booklet and stuff like that with all the moves
and stuff like that. That's not what people buy. The people buy something to put in their machine
and get the controller in their hand and the value is in the experience they have by looking
at the screen and pressing the buttons and getting scoring goals and setting up goals and stuff
like that. And most games, if not all games now, you have training levels where it says if it's
like a first person showing your press squared to docking. So you've got in-game training and a lot
of people are familiar pretty much with different genres of games anyway. So you can jump
into a football game and okay, the person, the shoot button might be swattering about, but it
doesn't take you that long to figure that one out and you can learn on the go. And I mean, for the
point is you don't pick up the, when you back a game, what, I mean, when was the last time you
bought a game and said, right, I better read the instructions first. You don't do that, you just
put the thing in the machine, you switch it on, the controller on your hand and you play.
So that's, there's no, there's little to no value in the actual, the medium, the physical medium,
the disc and the Emily card in the box other than to keep it safe and unscratched on a shelf.
It's the same with that, with a movie, if you buy a blu-ray or a DVD, you don't get any value
from the physical disc. You put the disc in the machine and you've got your remote to press the
button and have that movie or that TV show play whenever you want to watch it. And you've got the
value is in the extras where you can watch them and see how things were made and influences
and things like that and put on director's commentaries. And that's where the value is, it's not
in the physical product. You have to be buying a physical product, but you can easily download that
as long as the actual quality is the same as what you see on the screen and all the buttons
work the same way, it doesn't matter whether that came from a download on your hard drive or
whether it came from a disc that you put in the machine, the medium is irrelevant.
Yeah, I suppose the only way you say the medium would be irrelevant would be maybe with slightly
older users, but this isn't really that much of a gaming issue to be honest. You know,
maybe they might not be trusting so much as far as, you know, I want to see if I've paid good
money for it, I want my physical copy, but realistically that has got to be a dying breed and
the other thing is you'd have to be a pretty old gamer to be of that mentality.
And I suppose maybe that's one of the reasons why bookshops are still, you know, they're still
fairly regular. Obviously a lot of older people still read, you know, but not so much older people,
I can't imagine that many older people will be signing up for the new consoles from Sony and
Nintendo, you know, but it's just one of those things. But yeah, there's absolutely as far as
I can see that there is almost no benefit these days in doing something like in having the likes of
a gaming shop. Why? Well, for a start, you've actually got to employ people to work there,
you've got to pay your rates, you've got to pay your rent, you know, you've, you've got to have,
I mean, you've got to cover not just enough to make money on the game that you bought,
you've then also got to make enough money so to cover all these other things.
Now, on top of that, yes, you do have the advantage that you do get someone you're speaking to when
you go in and it is local, as far as geographically, it could be local and might part of a huge chain.
But I just don't get where the comparison is for like when you can buy it online,
where as you said, buy it online, it's maybe 15 quid cheaper, you also get constant updates,
you know, if there's an update, if there's updates, there's 1.5 whatever, if you bought that,
chances are you'll get it downloaded, if you buy it in store and then there's an update
consumption, you've probably got to go on buy the blood thing all over again, you know,
there's certainly not going to send it out for free. So to be honest, it really is stacked against
them and this is what I think, you know, gaming apart from maybe a small corner and maybe HMV,
I think you're always going to have something, some physical because there's plenty too many places
where the broadband still isn't reaching and reaching very well. I mean, I still know people
are certain parts, even on the island here, I mean, I get a great connection for the island,
I'm about seven and a half meg, my connection, but yet I know people are outside of the area,
they can't connect to broadband at all, so they use satellite and the maximum speed they'll
get one, one MB, you know, so realistically and they're also very much limited and how much they can
download. So realistically, it's not an option to download games, you are still going to get those,
but the more and more time goes on, the more and more things are upgraded, the more and what it's
just going to become a niche. I mean, to be honest, there's probably not that many consoles now that
people have that aren't connected to the internet, that aren't getting these updates, that aren't
playing with their mates online, rather than physically getting the disk and then phoning up their
mates and saying, oh right, could you, do you want to come around play this game? No, I said
that'll do the same, right, you know, you fancy, fancy going for a game online, yep, give me two
minutes to allow gone and that's just the way of the world and we have to move with it, if we're
in the industry, you can't just simply see I'm putting my head in the sand and do absolutely
nothing, instead we're going to have to be seeing right, we've got to move with it or we're going to
die and sadly the latter has happened, you know, I'm, again, it's no loss to me but at the same time
we've got to think we can't just be that blinkered and say tough it's no loss, it's no error lost
tough, we are going to, you know, there was a lot of people employed by game, it was a big franchise
so but they didn't move with the times and they're paying the price of it now. I mean there's all
sorts of advantages and disadvantages for bricks and more of as well as an online thing, I mean
some companies can do it where they they have some sort of combination thing whereby you can
reserve it online or you can even buy it online and go and pick it up in store, there's people who
go in in store to actually, I mean I do this when I'm looking at things and things in like
commenting queries, I'll check them out online and I sort of narrow them down and then go into
the store and actually see them in the flesh so to speak and assuming there's no price difference
between that and online, I might not even buy them there, I might buy them Amazon, so there's
that I mean if you're only online then you miss out on that and some people as well is because
there's also a sort of companies claiming like first sale rights whereby you cannot transfer the
thing that you supposedly quote bot on quote, if you don't have the physical copy, you can't
do anything about that, I mean if you go and buy a physical book you can do whatever the fuck you
want with that, you can you can give it to your mom, your dad, your son, your daughter, however,
you can sell it, you can you can give it to a charity shop, it's a physical item that changes
ownership, if you've got an ebook, well that's different you know there's there may well be limits
on that through DRM or if you lose a copy of it, if you lose your computer or something and the
you know do you have to go and buy it again, are you allowed to make a backup, so there's there's
that but yeah I mean there is the idea of the sort of blend on and offline is some companies that
have happened to that are there's arm but to avoid the whole online thing altogether that's just
insane, as far as the updates are concerned you're right, I mean if you if you get something
that's you going to buy it online you will get the latest latest version, might have bug fixes
or something like that, but that's just the way it is suppose I mean that the other thing that
that went against game as well was they they had pissed off publishers by their pre-owned stuff
and because again the first sale thing is that when they sell pre-owned they don't have to give
any of that money to to the publishers because the publishers already made their profit on the first
sale and I'm the tonne these bastions of free culture publishers decided to retaliate by doing
things like refusing to supply AAA titles when they came out, a lot of these big AAA stuff
it's like movies the the real value to the retailer comes in their initial week of release that's
when most people who want it and who are going to pay fuel price for it are going to buy it
and if they are not supplied with it they can't buy it there and so they're going to lose out
out there as well so yeah that's that's one thing that's that's also counting against them
yes it is all right and are we about ready to wrap this up and just noticing the times
are ticking on did we get any more suggestions? Yeah from Phil the bearded gnome
who were asked about companies that sell one of our sell pieces without without
one without windows sorry to avoid the windows tax so and he's mentioned I've got a company called
Cougar Extreme who do that underneath him and so on to that they've been doing a bit of thinking
on how the site is going and how it can be improved and how easy to do things basically and
what we used to have was separate sections for recommended links to sites like tect up and all
that stuff for media for for like podcast and things events like it was them or whatever
and I wanted to do all that in a fancy way with sort of lists and all that and it's pretty
that's been that's been a wasted time essentially so what I'm decided to do is actually set it
up instead I've removed all of that and set it up as a wiki so if you've not got a wiki button
it's dripples on internal wiki it's quite limited but it's functional and we're using that now
for lists of things like how to avoid the windows tax companies you can you can support
and Phil's list is on there we're going to have that for suggestions for topics for
criminals as well if you've got topics you want to suggest it does mean you need an account
with the the dripple side is the main unseen studio site to do that and then add your own stuff
there the other question is the forums are small they are a separate program it's Fox BB
and my thinking is given the fact that it's that small and we're shurving most things across
onto the wiki anyway and then if the feedback for individual episodes can go in the comments
sections for those episodes is there any point in having a forum that's that's the question
is there any point in having a forum my my instincts are no it's not but you know that's
that's a question of putting out there if anyone has as a compelling reason to keep it keep the forum
or to keep the forum as it is or just to do away with it then either side of that debate just
please let us know and we'll only think about it so yeah I think that's that's it for that
discussion the main thing is I mean if you're feeling no no we really do like the forums then
you know let us know with us we don't want to be enraging our listeners at the same time though
if you do really want to keep the forums I would really recommend you try and get us
any of your mates to listen to this you know whether their real life mates are virtual mates
doesn't say it doesn't matter get them signing up and as long as they don't basically their username
is not the same as one of we guys dense then we're probably going to be quite happy to assist them
however if your spammers would rather not just close the forums or rather close them on top of you so
well a big if we're going to flip the birdie to any spammers that are about here I think what
it happened actually was it was more that when I was thinking about different eye angles for the
site I wasn't aware of existing services that already did that one initially I'd wanted to do
logs to list people's when it's user groups and then I realized when I was building the site that
there's already a site that specializes in that and they do it so much better as they're
the main thing then then we could ever do it as a little site thing so we thought right not
going to duplicate that go with that and then I found after that I found that there's also one
for events which again is much the same thing let's think it's force events I believe and again
that's their whole that's their host host dick and they do it so much better so it's all these
little things are building up and I sort of decided look there's no point in having these bits of
deadwood on the site you know if there are other places are better for them so yeah they want to
wrap this up then wrap this up with all that yeah we're getting there just one last thing I'd like
to ask about is just if anybody has an idea for a show or if maybe they're thinking they're
like to actually start recording and it's roughly along our kind of guidelines which is just basically
it's a free and open source so really all we're really looking for then send an email to the
show so that iscrivans at unseenstudio.co.uk and if you want to have a wee discuss about
if you fancy becoming part of the unseenstudio's podcast network then you are more than welcome
we're hopefully going to keep this expanding out as well you can follow us on identical I am
at kevy and garden is at thistleweb we also have one for announcing the shows and that is at
unseenstudio and I'm pretty much thinking that says is anything else I've forgotten?
yeah that's it we've got also looking for little surreal intro audio clips if you've got something
bizarre with the woodcrivans in it it's a little little 30 second clip audio clip
then please send and commons at unseenstudio.co.uk and yeah that's it so I want to find the song
for the for the end of the show yes and this is actually no I couldn't pronounce his band's name
and it's to do like you thought it was to do a Harry Potter song we'll let you do it you far on
yeah I hope to try and get mumble to the to the front so that I can read it yeah the band is
diddly's diddly's right eye the song has a dreamcatcher and so it's good night from me and it's
adios from me
yeah
don't sugarcoat it's a better pill take it twice a day and it'll make you ill the needle in
you're you ragged close so you can see your father mr christopher crow watch but never boils in the
in the situation don't go running around crazy aggravation how many numbers can you count to
and not pretty hard it's not often I get to talk this long and I intend
eat up eat up you were young master the truth is it becoming when you tell me it's some type
eat up eat up you were young master and tell us something pretty something pretty before she dies
so please excuse me I'm kind of new just show me the ropes and I will tie up you the minute
shield that can freeze our tongue so you could never tell me what the hell was wrong I want to kiss you
then break up the makeup watch rinse repeat until your conscience is clean and you're able to
see you love me how many numbers can you count to and not pretty hard it's not often I get to talk
this long and I intend eat up eat up you were young master the truth is it becoming when
you tell me it's some type eat up eat up you were young master and tell us something pretty
something pretty before she dies
you can't just think it says couldn't be anymore
you can't just think it says couldn't be anymore
you can't just think it says couldn't be anymore
you can't just think it says couldn't be anymore
eat up eat up you were young master the truth is it becoming when you tell me it's some type
eat up eat up you were young master and tell us something pretty something pretty before she dies
because I'm a dream catcher I'll take it faster and faster faster
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