Episode: 1303
Title: HPR1303: A Music Pairing Under Unlikely Circumstances
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1303/hpr1303.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-17 23:13:32

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Hi this is Dave Morris recording for Hacker Public Radio and I'm here in South
Morningside in Edinburgh interviewing two people, one of whom is my son Tim and his
friend and I'd like you to introduce yourselves Tim. My name is Tim Morris, I'm Dave
Sun, I study music full-time as a student at Napier University in Edinburgh. I'm
currently finished my second year and I'm going into my third and I specialize in
composition. My name is John Pavlik, I am a resident of Michigan USA and I am a
full-time software developer and .NET, all that sort of stuff and I'm over here on
holiday. So you guys have been friends for a number of years, how did you
actually meet in the first place? Oh well it was a while ago, it was in 2006 and I
think John had posted a post on an online forum called Internet DJ, all
things, asking for someone to do a collaboration with him and at this time I'd
been producing for a couple of years beforehand and I really wasn't getting
anywhere very fast in my opinion so I thought a collaboration would really help
me pick up some more techniques to use. Little did Tim know that I posted that
thread in the collaboration subforum because I was even more of a rank
amateur than he, having only, you know, been using the software for about six
months and with no real formal musical training or talent to speak of, I was
hoping to get, you know, paired up with someone with, you know, all kinds of
experience that would show me how to crank out the number ones in a pretty
timely fashion. So that was kind of what I was going for, but Tim was the only
person who responded to the thread. So I thought, well let's see where it goes. So I
listened to some of his music on his profile and I thought, oh, this kid's a pro.
And so friendship was forged. I think really the skill levels were quite
matched and I think that's why we ended up doing so much work together and
ended up becoming friends because our skills set matched pretty much perfectly
that time. Well, music reduction wise, but and we shared a lot like a lot of
similar views, but our backgrounds were very complete or just completely
different, really. I don't think we realized how different until possibly
until this week. Actually, yeah. There's a lot of things which you don't mention in
instant messenger or online. I mean, a lot of details that end up being
on set. So you spent quite a lot of time communicating when with one and
another outside the music context. Well, we say that we, well, they all started
from a collaboration, but the amount of collaborations you actually finished
was over over the seven years or so that we've known each other. I think we
finished maybe two. And mostly, mostly the other time it's just been chatting.
We did finish a few pieces, but we really didn't we're not much of a completionist
as I suppose. What happened is that we just we started talking and we realized
that we had a lot in common despite the you know, let's fight the the
distance and the completely different cultures and the completely different
backgrounds. We did have a lot in common and we were going through some of
the same stuff, you know, both being teenagers, both being in high school, both
trying to find ourselves in our way in the world. And socially awkward as well.
But I wasn't going to mention that. I suppose this is a hands-together sort of thing.
So yeah. So what type of music was it? Then what's your
main interest or is it very wide? Well, it matched up, I would say, back then.
More or less, definitely more than it does now. We both like we like trans music a
lot back then. And I guess we were both trying to replicate it, but in different
ways and using different approaches. I remember when we first were doing
collaboration, you were banned from using kick drums in the tracks. I grew up
in a somewhat oppressive religious environment. And it was a bit more
extreme than probably was healthy in my my mother at the time had banned me
from using any sort of percussion really because she thought that it was the
work of the devil. So I was trying to write trans tracks without kick drums and
that was that was a bit of an exercise. Trying to find a sense of rhythm and
propulsion without using any frequencies pull out like, you know, 200 hertz was
quite frankly impossible. One of our first collaborations though, indeed
doesn't have any kick drums right the whole thing. And it really did make us
think outside of the box because I mean like you're saying like the huge part
of the trans genre is having a constant 4-4 beat the whole time that people
can dance to and you can mix mix two tracks together with and we had none of
that. It was yeah, it wasn't like we were trying to write ambience or something
where we wanted to need it any percussion. We were trying to write dance music
with that. And it'd be like trying to to dice it on even thought a knife. So yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So how did things develop from there? Did you did that take you
up into different music genres or what? I would say that a big part of being
an electronic musician especially in the internet age is that you are
constantly exposed to new ideas and new styles of music and new ways of thought
and that I mean we've both kind of been all over the shop in different in
different directions over the years. We I mean we started on pretty much the same
road but there's there was so many developments and trends and and different
parts that we ended up taking that now we have we both still enjoy electronic
music a lot but it's that our our taste are wildly different really. Like if
you if you compared our iPods together I think you might find about maybe three
or four artists that would be the same and that would all be from a very
specific time period in probably two thousand seven two thousand eight when
the whole blog music thing was really big and 90 percent of my music was
stuff that Tim sent me over G-talk and I downloaded and kept yeah I know I
know Tim's moved away from trance because I seem to have all his collection in
my house. So yeah so your friendship just kept kept on and sort of seemed
to grow I guess and I yeah as an outside observer I just knew you Tim were
constantly mentioning oh I said such and such to John today and John said so
and so and so and so it developed until November 2011 what would tell us what
happened then. Right well our I mean the our relationship really just
transcend music very quickly because like we're saying we had so much in common
and we we basically kept ourselves updated throughout throughout all the
things that are happening through our lives you know I I went to college and did
full-time music for the first time and I wanted to uni while John was was doing
all sorts of things I went to college for a bit and moved out of the house and
met a girl and it was just kind of whirlwind I mean through high school we
pretty regularly we I'd say that most of our most of the time we spent together
was during high school because we both really didn't have schedules or anything
major going on we'd come home I come home from school and signing the G-talk and
there would be Tim and we'd be like hey what's up and then be like hey man you
be like hey I just got a dreamcast this is the best thing ever. Well what's a
dreamcast and you'd be like you know the Sega one from the 90s you know and it
was just like this it was just we both really had at least I know myself I
trouble fitting in with my peers so our friendship was kind of like 90% of my
social life if not more it was it was a breath of normalcy and acceptance you
know that's amazing yeah yeah so in November you you got married John
November 2000 married the girl and I was thinking you know who can I have
good I guess man because I moved away from the area I grew up in and at the
time I didn't really feel particularly close to any of my schoolmates they
just we never really got on that well to be honest and I thought well I wonder
Tim would be up for a trip over I mean I wonder if that would be too much to
ask of a person that never actually met real life to be a best man but he's
kind of the only person qualified he's one of the few people in my life right
now that I've known for any length of time I mean I've known Tim longer than I've
known my wife and fortunately he said yeah sure I said are you serious he's
like yeah absolutely it'd be great and it was actually it was quite a trip
that yeah I went over for 10 days it's for I think I arrived probably about a
week before the wedding so I was in I was in kind of last stages of getting
everything sorted for the wedding so in that time we didn't get through a
couple of rehearsal dinners and all that kind of stuff and John was still
working before his wedding right until the very last day well music wasn't a
very big part of that but I think that's I think that's reflected that reflects
our whole relationship really that it was based on music and it's still it's
based on music but it's it it really becomes so much so many other things as
well yeah yeah that's fantastic and John you were saying that your outlook was
was changed quite a lot by having a foreign friend yeah it was Tim exposed I
was I grew up in a very insular and segregated community and Tim was Tim was
very different from that he was a bit more I guess worldly wise I suppose I
never knew that people were interested in fashion and I never knew that people
were you know I don't know he's just very different I was used to I guess
people that were very boring and didn't really do a lot outside of going to
church and particularly religious ceremony and Tim kind of he introduced me to
a lot of interesting things and we had a lot of interesting discussions about
philosophy and I mean we're 16 in discussing philosophy so there was
probably pretty basic but to me at the time I had never been exposed to anything
like that and I don't know it was just it was very different and just you know
talking to this in some of the words too he told me oh I went out and bought a
jumper in the States a jumper is a dress worn by you know little girls in
kindergarten that in I was like why is Tim buying jumpers is this normal and you
know when it was actually just a jacket so yeah it was it was interesting to do
that and to meet someone from another place and get to know him so you were
saying to me earlier this week that you're coming over to the UK was was
something of a big big leap in comparison to many people in your
your part of the States yeah did you put that down to you or to your friendship
with Tim oh absolutely just like the mindset that that seems to be more
common over here and that I picked up from him a bit is that the world is a
really big place that deserves to be traveling explored and I feel like
traveling is a bit more common over here than it is in the States or people are
more than content to you know go to school for 20 years work for 40 live for
another 20 on a pension and then it's dying and that the I don't know
America seems to at least my little part of the Midwest seems to be very
comfortable and staying there and not exploring much or not doing anything
uncomfortable so yeah I would say that for sure yeah yeah so have you have
you thought about being over in the UK what's what's your impression overall I
really like it a lot it's it's it's it's a very different form used to but I've
noticed a lot of things are really efficient really well done the public
transportation system in Edinburgh is really nice everyone seems to be more
eco-friendly more interested in preserving the environment and not in a look at
me I'm a soccer mom trying to lay this trend sort of way really you know I
would really like to be living on this earth for another several millennia sort
of way yeah so I mean that that's kind of cool too it's a bit more sustainable
over here yeah in the food's amazing wow that's not what you expect to hear
people say usually say British food is rubbish you just see his face when we
introduce into the half pizza suffer which is if if anyone doesn't know it's it's
a frozen pizza of the usually of the cheap variety which is kind of half and
then deep fried and you serve it with chips and it's and it's called a
supper so I've got to say that's probably the most American thing I've ever heard
off it wasn't fried pizza right after I ate that I strongly
considered going out and getting an eagle tattoo on my bicycle yeah so what
about going back to the music it you have you been writing any
collaborating on anything recently well we we do try things I mean it's I
don't think well I don't think a long period of time like a half a year goes
by without us attempting something but the amount the amount of
commitments that will especially John has then we both have means that like
doing something where we were both to far apart and things move really quite
slowly it means that it's hard to be motivated for a long period of time
maybe you're working on a track for a very long period of time because I mean we
both work in a similar way which is getting is getting it done like the
base work done and sorted in a very short condensed period of time and then
putting the filling and finishing touches on it later on yeah yeah yeah it's
it's really important to preserve that momentum that you get when you first
start a story an idea because if you can't get that if you can't get the if you
can't get most of track written in the first few studio sessions then it just
usually ends up rotting and never being finished and you start to hate it
because you've heard it so much in the end yeah but it's really been nice
because we have we didn't really get we didn't have time I was about to get
married the last time I saw him there was some time to work on anything and we
tried a few different times but we really didn't have any time to sit down for
hours and time to be like all right we're gonna we're gonna report some
to make it happen yeah but since I've been over here we've actually had a
little bit of time to work on some material and it's gone really well and we
were pretty close with finishing a track that I think it's probably some
probably the nicest sounding thing I've ever worked on to be completely honest
and it's been cool to see that our workflow we can work so well together and
so quickly I don't know I just felt it felt very natural there wasn't I wasn't
like okay so were you gonna do what am I gonna do one of us will sit at the
computer one of us will sit at the keyboard and then after a bit we'll swap
and it just works really well it's never for a lack of ideas that things don't
get finished is for a lack of time yeah yeah yeah the fact that just during
this week you've been here John you're just living up the road from from Tim's
flat yeah you've been able to get up early and and come down here and and do
stuff together yeah that's that's that's that's pretty good that's really good
they should have had a longer holiday I keep telling that yeah I'm convinced now
that the that it might be a wise investment to save up a good bit of money and
then take a leave of absence for a few months and just stay over here and maybe
explore some other parts of Europe as well because I mean this is my first
this is my first time really properly being out of the country out of the
states and the world seems so much bigger now so I definitely would like to do
that simple next year so to wind up then is there anything that we can point
the listeners at in terms of your music is there anything online that we can
point out or anything we can we can add to a sample to the to this particular
episode well unfortunately the the only part we have finished were things
about five or six years ago and we've changed a lot since then you know
rather not yeah sure as a yes we'd rather not but we would like to finish
something soon and we would like to get up online and I think if we keep the
listeners posted on that yeah okay so we'll we'll we'll try and do a brief
follow-up maybe and and introduce what whatever you'd manage to compose in
yeah yeah that'd be nice okay and also if it would be possible to to to upload
some of our tracks over the time period that we we we'd be working together it
would be quite funny it would be funny to to see the evolution and music and
maybe that and maybe that would maybe give some kind of idea of how we've
both changed yeah yeah and also pretty much at the same pace throughout the
whole thing and I think that's I think that's why we've our friendship is
managed to endure for so long is because we generally we generally been
changing at the same pace you know going to similar similar parts of our life at
the same time I mean obviously John had did get a head start because he got
married and a job but right that was that was a that was just a very unique
set of circumstances that put me in a position to where I could do all that
very quickly and just get it out of the way move on with my life but I don't know
things would have gone that way if I would have done that if you know a very
very specific sense of circumstances hadn't existed but it's another thing that
I joke about with Tim on occasion is that it's funny how if you look at our
lives there are some very interesting and unexpected parallels and I like we've
been interested in the same things not even knowing it I mean obviously music
was the first one recently I started racing BMX bikes and I told him hey you
know I race bikes and he said what cycling really I said yeah and he said oh I've
been you know I'm in a touring and and he you know about the same time he had
gotten into cycling in a really major way and earlier this year he just
completed like what 250 miles across Europe or something unbelievable like that we
did 700 miles actually he just completed a 700 mile bike ride and it's just
crazy to see there's been a few other things like that we both got into
things at completely different times no at the same time but in slightly of
course in slightly different ways so I mean it's kind of funny to me but it's
I'm not I'm not really surprised by it that's amazing yeah well let's hope we
hear him or this maybe the next time you visit it will be a long cycle ride
across Europe and we can do a recording about that perhaps that would be
obviously we could we could keep an audio journal day three legs will never move
again
cute stroke unbearable okay guys thank you very much
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