Episode: 1436
Title: HPR1436: 2013-2014 HPR New Year Show 2013-2014 After Show 1 of 4
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1436/hpr1436.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 02:31:27

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I guess one question needs to be asked, Popeye, mint can't be the only derivative that,
you know, as a drain on canonical resources. So, are there, do you think there will be other
respins, or not respins, but derivative distros that might be targeted to say, hey, you guys need
to pony up? I don't think, well, to be clear, I don't know if mint were targeted and asked
to pony up. I don't know if that's what they were asked, because I haven't seen the conversation.
And I don't know how many other inadverticomers popular derivatives of Ubuntu there are, really.
Can I just do some technical stuff here? Can we sync up the recordings, guys? Can you leave
your recordings running? I'd like to get some after show as well. I just restarted mine.
And can I have Sanchez who you were here the whole time? Can you copy the mumble chat
into an email, please, and send it to me? Are you paying that up on the site as well, the whole
like mumble chat stuff? Yeah, that's good, that's good, yeah. And with that, I'm forced to go
and spend time with my family. I know that sounds a lot worse than that, actually.
Well, as normal, we leave the stream running and we put this out as an additional
as an additional shortcut. Thanks guys, it's been long. It's been fun though,
can't thanks a lot. It has been, it has been fun. And my body is demanding I go back to bed, so I'm
going to say reg at night to everybody. Yeah, bye, Trevor's evening. Although I wouldn't quickly say
something about, if they have a unit unit, apparently when I remember trying out mint before and
I thought, you know, it's so close to a bunch, I could just stick in unity. That's what I thought,
but then when I tried about, it must be about three years ago. That package could never ever get
installed into mint, so they blocked it or something other than about now if that's the case,
but or not, but that's what happens, seems to happen then. Does anyone still there?
I'm still around. All right, so just dust out. Yeah, they went really, really quite in there because
people left. Well, we still see them in the mumble, all the folks that said they were going to leave.
They're still here digitally at least. Yeah, Popeye, did you go as well, Popeye?
According to the mumble chat, he's muted and deafened, so he can't even answer your question.
Well, yeah, you can tell me people, I don't know if it's going to be much enough to think, is that?
Well, I will credit Popeye for being a good sport, coming on and talking about this because
he's not being coming on as official canonical representative, and all he knows is,
you know, what he's seen in the media like we have, and it's all gone back to the one
DistraWatch story where Clem says, you know, mentioned that,
canonical was, had asked him something about a licensing fee,
and I guess, you know, license fee would be for meant users hitting the canonical repose.
But yeah, this past hour, I think Popeye's been a good sport, coming on and at least,
given his opinion on where this might be going. Yeah, yeah. I think we've lost pretty much
everyone, is that for like, maybe for you or us? Everyone's gone to sleep now. Oh yeah, you are here now.
Did you hear what I said about you and me? No, I did miss that. I didn't hear that. Yeah, I thought
you might have missed that. What I basically said, and what I said before, but I remember trying
out me, you know, for about three years ago now when I was doing it, and I thought, you know,
it's so close to a banter, I can probably install Unity into Mint. So I tried to do that,
like you would, you know, normally from the repo, and it just wouldn't install. It's like
they blocked it or something. I don't know about now if they still do that or not, but, you know,
if you were to thought you could run Unity and Mint as well because it's so close to a banter,
but this wasn't the case down, I'm not sure about now. So that highlights, so what, I mean,
there are some issues where there's conflicts between various desktop components. So for
example, it, in fact, it was the case, you know, a few years ago that the same would happen if
you tried to install Node Shell on Ubuntu that already had Unity on. It would, it would mess up
and you log onto your Node Shell session and it was messed up in some way. No, yeah, sure. Oh yeah,
sure, but I'm saying that I couldn't install Unity at all into Mint, right? I tried, you know,
I tried and it wouldn't seem to work. Right. So it's similar because Mint have their desktop
with their own desktop components and this actually highlights exactly why I said
that they should put those things in the archive because those kind of issues, those conflicts
should be detected when you put the package in the archive. You test things like, you know,
is it possible to install this package and then install another package and them not conflict or
not break each other or one, you know, one is, is it actually installable, that kind of stuff?
And because it's a derivative that has its own PPA or archive that has their own desktop in it,
I suspect that that testing doesn't happen because the whole point of Mint is that it isn't Unity,
it is Cinnamon or Mate or, you know, whatever desktop they're using, it, it, it, it is in Unity,
so that test doesn't ever happen. I doubt, I doubt, I doubt that actively, you know,
blocking Unity installs on Mint, I suspect it's just that it's, it's broken because of some
conflict and there's no motivation to fix it because if someone wants to Unity, they'd run a
bunch of problems. Yeah, I mean, it might be working now, but yeah, although, well, yeah,
if some people want Cinnamon or Mate now, well, you can run different streets as well, but that's
something else. Yeah, but you don't try and take a Mint version of Cinnamon and try and install it
on another distribution. It, you know, it's, it's a very, very oft-repeated suggestion and advice
that don't take something from one distribution and try and install it on another distribution.
Exactly. When I, when I did that, my, my system would break. But the problem is that
people see Mint commonly said that it's a binary compatible with Ubuntu, so people believe
they can just, you know, go and grab a Ubuntu package and install it on Mint or grab a Mint
package and install it on Ubuntu and that, that may or may not succeed. Well, then their ignorance
will be cured. You know, I'm speaking, I'm speaking from personal experience, not with Mint, but
from other distributions that I've run. When I've mixed packages from outside the distribution,
eventually I get to a point. If it doesn't happen immediately, eventually I get to a point where
I either can't boot or I can't get into X or my desktop is all messed up or something else is
broken. It's just life. Yeah, I mean, as a user, sure, you don't want to, shouldn't really mix
from other distros. Even when you've got something very similar to, even if it's a fault
distro at times, if you then take a package off the like distros fault drum as you might bump into
their issues. But, I mean, I'm not a packageer, but I think when it came to packaging, on the other
hand, sometimes I would see, sometimes, well, yeah, packages they do kind of like look at other
distros and they kind of take the packages and then do the changes for their relevant distro calls,
but that's obviously different. Because doing something as a user and as a packageer, that's
different when it comes to taking from the other distro. And I can see where that's a bugaboo
for canonical where they're trying to be. You boot to for the every man because
you know, somebody coming over from windows, they're expecting, oh, yeah, no matter, no matter how
bad, you know, how much I try to screw up my desktop, it ought to just work. And when it doesn't
work, they're coming back to you guys and saying, well, what, you know, what I do, how do I screw this
up? We're saying people going from windows or what was that? Well, I'm saying, I, I, you know,
people I consider power users, we, you know, if we mix and match stuff and then comes up, comes a day
that we can't boot in the X, you know, we kind of take that and stride and back up our stuff.
And, you know, if we have to completely wipe out what we've gotten and start with something else,
if you go off a typical windows user, they expect everything that they click on to just work.
And they are quite put out. If they click on something and it completely screws up their system.
Are you saying the OS should be that faulty that you click on the long thing in your hose
your system? I mean, think about that. I'm just saying if, you know, canonical is trying to be,
you know, the Linux for, you know, for the morons. Why shouldn't say that? But, you know, for the people
trying something else. And it's hard to, it's difficult to be that when people are coming in
with derivative systems and, you know, still expecting, you know, for canonical affix it for them.
Flying rich, you will not believe how many times I've seen an IRC people saying,
I installed such-and-such version of the NVIDIA driver and now I can't boot into X or I can't boot.
It is a daily occurrence of multiple times. What I'm saying is, and look, I've been there. I've done,
I've installed, you know, X, you know, driver and couldn't start X windows and it couldn't
figure it the for count and I just reloaded the OS. Yeah, well, that's sometimes that's the
simplest, quickest and cleanest solution rather than trying to troubleshoot or roll something back
or figure out exactly where the failure is, reinstall. So what is the saying with great power
comes great responsibility, is that it? Not if you're dealing with new comers. I pretty much learned
everything I did about computers by doing everything wrong several times and then figuring it out
the right way. And you have a flying rich, if you're an IRC, you can't give people that advice.
Oh, sure. You're telling them, you know, go figure it out for yourself. That's not what an IRC
help channel is for. But the point I'm trying to make is for a user to use an operating system.
If they can hose it by a mouse click, that's not real good. But I understand that yeah,
there are things I do with an OS that nobody else has ever done and that's why I use Linux.
But for a guy that wants to use like open office and, you know, browse the web and he really doesn't
care about that stuff. Well, you can certainly hose windows with a mouse click if you're
especially if you're in your email and you got a message from Crypto Locker.
Which I got a question for you guys. I don't know if anybody can answer this and it might be the
wrong forum. So feel free to punt. I was, let's see, I was on the meetup show with the door-to-door geek
and we started talking about Crypto Locker and Crash Plan. So like crap. Now I got the trial version
of Crash Plan. All of my family's computers are backed up. My multiple computers and the
different versions of the OS as they boot are all backed up right now. The question is, like,
if I get Crypto Locker and everything starts getting encrypted and it starts getting backed up
by Crash Plan, does Crash Plan have versioning? Because realistically, if I get Crypto Locker
on a PC, which actually my wife has the only PC, is it going to just overwrite the backup
that it has or can I go back to Tuesday's version and get it and restore that?
See, I've run into that, you know, working for a school. There was this old, old,
educational system that they had and had all the kids records in it. But I had at the time,
I had the system set, you know, stepped back up. I had enough stores to back up week one,
week two, you know, but not week three. So they notified me that there was a problem on week
three. And of course, by that time, the database had overwritten itself. And I don't know. No,
there's no, I can't bring it back. I'm sorry. You know, somebody should have been on top of this
and it was in the school year. It's supposed to be written out to a, you know, a separate hard copy.
And, you know, I tell them, I can't bring it back. You brought me back, you know,
both the backups have been overwritten. There's nothing I can do about it.
Right. Great. And stuff like that happens.
Which one of those things is, I think some people want to sit there like, oh,
well, I went to this website, I don't want to leave. I know on three days later, they think about
when they finally get up the courage to talk to the sit-set man. And the sit-set man said,
yeah, we had two days of backup. And I think a lot of this thing has gone, you know,
if Claudio and Chad were here, I'm sure they could confirm. The last few years, a lot of this stuff
that is at educational testing programs that used to run on a local server, they've all gone
web-based, which makes a lot less work for me, but it makes a lot less work for me.
If you catch what I'm saying, I mean, I, you know, it's, it's great. I don't have to fiddle
with stuff, but there's a lot less bill by hours in it for me these days.
Okay, I've killed the podcast. We need to, I guess I'll start talking to Rich about guns.
I'm still, I'm still here. I just didn't have much to comment on,
but it's embarrassing. And say on that topic.
Well, I actually, I'm trying to figure out, I'm in Palm Beach, and I'm trying to figure out if
the Okeechobe outdoor range is going to be a rain down right now. So I'm looking at aviation
weather forecast, and it's in Greenwich Meantime, and I'm just doing the calculations, and
figuring out whether it's worth cleaning up my most in the gun, and driving an hour plus out
there to shoot the thing, along with the Okeechobe. And if I have it, I think I responded on G-plus,
thanks for your, your, your links and your guidance. I did get a hex receiver, Mozen, I'm just,
just waiting for warmer weather to cook out the cosmolean in the wood parts.
Yeah, I was kind of thinking about that as it's getting up this morning, whether I was going to
take some, you know, we got our water kettle and boil up some water, and put some soap in that,
and try and get that out of the wood with some hot soapy water. And I have mineral spirits here,
so the mineral spirits work really good on cleaning off the cosmolean, and this thing, it's,
it's like, on it bad, but it looks really nice. Yeah, I've heard on the, you know, on the west
about this reds compound, and it's like, one part mineral spirits, and one part kerosene, and
one part transmission fluid, and, you know, the, what's the other part? I got, I, I bought it.
I wouldn't put transmission fluid anything unless you wanted to stink for the rest of your life.
What's only on the metal parts? It's, it's not on the wood parts.
Now, what, what's the idea of that to clean it and preserve it at the same time, or?
I guess so, but, you know, I've been looking at a whole bunch of videos.
Yeah, here's, here's what I got to say, is I couldn't believe how good mineral spirits work,
because everybody has an opinion. First off, I wouldn't mix mineral spirits with transmission fluid.
I would transmission fluid. It's, it's just going to stink, and it's, it's synthetic lubricant.
It's not going to cut down on things. Now, mineral spirits and taro, they almost do the same thing.
I, I would just go street mineral spirits.
Well, I thought about that. I bought like a length of three inch PVC to, you know,
soaked barrel in. Yeah, I, I didn't have to soak the barrel, and all I did is plug the end of
the barrel and pour some mineral spirits down it and let that set for a while and then cleaned it
up from there. Oh, look at that too. Yeah, the, the PVC idea was good, but, you know, I didn't,
I was in Florida when I got the first one that didn't have all, you know, sores and stuff like that
to cut it. And I, all right, well, how am I going to do this? So, um, I just stood it up and,
like a plastic basin and plugged the barrel and just poured mineral spirits down it.
But that, the, the three inch too, I think would be the best way to go. I, I don't know how much
mineral spirits you need for that. And if, maybe the idea is cursing cheaper than mineral spirits,
you know, go 50-50 on that, it'll, it'll help you out when you dunk it.
Well, definitely, uh, you know, I'm going to have to read that disassembly videos because I've
looked at some of the text on the web and it's like, I have never seen so many parts in a weapon.
You were way too funny, but, but disassembly, who is it? It was Jesse James. He said he always
liked the build choppers that looked like he had, you know, one or two less parts than it needed to
operate. And the most negon is exactly that. It's one of those things that kind of scratch your head.
You say, hmm, how does this work? Because there's just way too many little parts for, to, you know,
compared to any other rifle for it to actually be functional. I'm still ahead. Yeah, I'm, uh,
I'm looking at the Terminal Airdrome Fortest for an airport near Okochovie. And it looks like
it's going to be, you know, showers in the area for most of the day. So that means we're ending here
today in yesterday or whatever. And here is where that sounds like a New Jersey accent.
No, no, no, no, I mean, I'm in England. I was good with an onion.
You don't tend to get snow here, but maybe later this month, maybe.
Yeah, Seb, Seb, I've been trying to figure what is the correct term for people with, you know,
sort of a British accent. But I mean, from, from all the colonies worldwide that, uh,
Britain used to have. Do we, you know, do we say it's a commonwealth accent? I don't, I don't think
British is right because British is just the, I, I, I thought was, you know, just the original
islands. But I mean, if you, we've been talking to Marcus today, you know, from New Zealand and,
of course, all our friends Australia. Yeah, I miss somebody. Yeah, I don't, I'm
speaking the night when I decide to sleep. I don't think there's a collective name for
the accent of people from the, the colonies or the commonwealth because they're all
there. I was going to say something like that as well. I don't think there is really an accent
and Popeye's from England as well. So that's good. But you got two of us.
So just to be completely offensive, I could just say your sound or like, why wouldn't there be?
I had that, that garbled for me. Your sound like what?
Just to be completely offensive, I could say your all sound or like, why wouldn't there be a term
for that? Well, yeah. But then, you know, there's loads of accents probably within Australia.
I know there's loads of accents within the UK. And, you know, I, I find it difficult understanding
a Scots person speaking English or someone from Newcastle or even a, you find it Welsh person.
You find, you find the hard to listen to Fistle Web speaking then, yeah?
I can't remember the last time I heard that it's all Web actually.
You must have missed it. Yeah, you missed it.
Is he quite, is his accent quite strong?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm used to it now. I used to listen to those
at Caribbean's and Tetbyte's and all that and stuff. So first, I'd get used to that a bit as well.
I find Irish, the Irish accent really hard. If it's really thick, I, you know, there was a guy
who used to work with who I would refuse to take phone calls from and I would only talk to him
face-to-face because I just couldn't understand a word he said over the phone. And he was speaking English.
Well, I, um, let's see, when I was at Cornell Medical Center, I had a fellow working from me
and he was Chinese and it was like a three-second delay before I understood what he said.
I got better as time went on and as I understood his, you know, pronunciations.
But yeah, it, it was a very large effort to understand what he was saying.
Yeah, accent, this is an interesting one because, um,
it was a good example, actually. There was, there's somebody I, I've never, and, but I've met,
and, uh, that, and I've been, you know, I've been, you know, I've met anyway.
He had apparently learned, we learned English, uh, French and Swedish because of some sort of
accent or whatever the reason. And, um, I, I, because I'm also half Swedish, I can speak Swedish.
So, with this particular person, I, I found it a lot easier to talk to him in Swedish than in English
because when he spoke in English, he would have all this accent and it would be all like,
okay, that's a bit difficult to understand. But when I spoke to him Swedish, it would be a lot easier
and it could be because that language is apparently easier to relearn as well. There's less words
or whatever reason, but, you know, there you go. When you got, when you can switch between languages,
with certain people, it might actually be easier to understand them in the other language, like I'm
saying here. Well, you know, that, that brings up another thing. In India, the, the common language,
because they have, I think, 12 different languages, it's English, but I get recruiting calls from
India all the time and they sound like they understand me and un-understand them well, but when I
tell them like, yes, I'm not interested, they keep talking. Like I said, I was interested. So,
there's something, there's a miss there. Ha, now that's just sales. Yeah, I was going to say,
that's just a script to keep, you know, until you hang up the phone, they're, they're going to
try to keep you on there. Because I can be rude, is that what I need to do? Hang on, yeah.
Because I, you know, I've noticed listening like podcasts and, you know, at first, like,
Tux Radar, that took me a while and, there's the European version of the PC Gamer magazine,
that was, that was even worse, that I had to be in the kind of a quiet room to understand those
guys, but sometimes. So, well, we've mentioned on the list, you know, you guys with the British and
that's a, you know, huge, encompassing thing. We've established there's no good word to put
on that, but you need to, you need to speak to us Americans slowly for us to understand you.
You said that all the British sounded like, I think actually a lot of the Americans sounded like
in our case, but I know it's actually somebody from England. I know what I noticed,
what I've personally noticed is something I've noticed. On TV, a lot of the time, they have this kind
of, it kind of fits in with the stereotype, I think, of these, some of these BBC shows and so on,
it's like London Axon and the T and all that, you know, and they all kind of, a lot of them sound
very similar on these TV shows, not everyone, not all TV shows, but they're on the TV, they seem,
yeah, on the TV, a lot of these shows, they, I'm not talking about documentaries, I mean,
natural shows about whatever, they seem to all have the same kind of accent, I don't know if
Popeys noticed this as well or not, but I seem to have noticed this. Well, on British shows or
American shows, yeah, but no British shows, they, they, you've kind of, you've got the kind of
London accent, no, you're going into a lot of the shows, I don't know if you know what I mean.
Not, I don't watch a lot of TV, so. They sound like, they sound a bit posh, and they
sound a bit posh and fit in with the stereotype and stuff, but it depends on the show as well, but.
And that's the other thing, comedy, we've talked about this before, and I guess it's cultural,
what brings, you know, comes across, faulty towers, you know, Americans will just fall down,
laughing, are you being served? You know, it, you know, we'll fall down laughing at that,
they're, they're, they're, there's a lot of British shows, their comedies are played over here,
and it's like, we don't understand. Yeah, but there's a difference between
British humor and American humor, even Irish humor, and so on, there's, you know, you have like
a difference of culture in the country, and some stuff kind of, I think, I don't really watch
much comedy myself, but obviously some jokes kind of, um, police will work through the whole,
we can say the whole western world, America, Canada, Europe, and other jokes will be different
depending on country, uh, I guess. This doesn't work the other way, I, I, I'm sure probably the,
you know, the BBC has tried to run, uh, American, you know, American shows with comedy and
in humor, do you guys, look at that and say, we, we just don't get it. No, no, when they,
I think, no, when they do show American comedians, I think they do, they do people do pull together,
but come to think of it, I think, um, yeah, come to think of it, comedy on TV here, it's
probably is mainly the, uh, British comedians or, or possibly an Irish comedian, there's not,
there's not really that many American comedians on, I don't think, but, I don't really watch
much comedy anyway, but, um, I think we do get the American jokes when they come on in general.
I think we do, unless the, unless the jokes are relating to American celebrities or, you know,
presidents or, you know, stuff that, stuff that isn't culturally relevant or something,
you have to get quite deep into that before it makes sense. Yeah, so you, you know, we,
we make a joke about Miley Cyrus and this goes right over your head. Well, that kind of stuff is like,
that's like really made its way everywhere, I think, um, but yeah, I don't know, there's,
there's, there's certain, like popular brand names as well. So for example, uh, there's a game
called Cards Against Humanity, um, and the, the American version, which came out first, there's
now a UK version, the American version on the, on the cards in the game has lots of American branded
products and American celebrity names and things of historical reference that, you know, Brits don't
get. So when we play, we often pull out all the American cards and just have all the generic
cards in there because a lot of people are like, who, who is that person or what is that product or,
you know, that kind of stuff? Wow, I play that game and, and I haven't even thought about that. So,
yeah, we need, we need to do the international version sometime. I've, I've played with them,
I've mostly played with Americans, um, when I'm a conference and we all sit down after a few
beers and I go and get the cards out and we play it. And it, it doesn't usually matter too much
because once you've played through a couple of times all the Americans explain what those cards
mean. And so, you know, the, it, it, it, it's less of a problem. I've picked it all up now, but,
you know, initially it was a problem. Fun game though. So are the American cards labeled like,
hey, you're not going to get this? No, they, well, no, you buy, you buy a set and the set is either
the US edition or the UK edition. And the US edition just has a few cards sprawled through it
that make cultural references to American things like, um, you know, at Mac and Cheese, we just
don't get that over here. Mm-hmm. So if they said veteran might, don't they, you'd understand it?
Yeah, we would. Um, but yeah, that would be translated to Marmite in the UK version.
Mm-hmm. Well, it's funny. I remember when I was in, oh my gosh, how many years ago was this? It
was before 1980, I was out of Germany and they had like, uh, mayonnaise and a squeeze tube, but it
didn't go over in the US. But now we have the squeeze jar, you know, and it's funny how some
products will go over in one country and won't go over in another country. Well, oh, yeah, just
the squeeze product. Sure, the Sweden have a lot of this as well, but you like squeeze out your
mayonnaise or whatever it is. So I have a problem with them. I just told my wife, um, don't ever buy
the squeezey mustard ever again, because we have English mustard over here a lot and it normally
comes in a glass jar. It's a very particular shaped glass jar and, you know, we always get that
and there's always a little bit of residue left in the bottom or underneath the lip of the glass
jar where the lid goes. Um, but with the squeezey one, because the mustard is so thick, it never
drops down to the bottom so you can never squeeze the last bit out. Yeah, you need a centrifuge.
Yeah. So I've said, oh, that's banned. We're not allowed to have that product. It's a squeezey
product anymore. Well, I think that's all packaging everywhere. You can't get a little bit out
of it. True, but it is easier to stick a knife in a glass jar and rub it around and,
you know, don't get it all out of the plastic bit. Well, that's an interesting marketing point.
I've always been curious about that as to whether you buy 12 ounces of product X in a two
ounces stay in it or they're calculating that you're going to need more sooner and then let two
ounces go to landfill. Yeah. I often wonder if they, you know, deliberately use containers that
make it hard to get the last bit out and then there'll be in three years time, bring out a new
version, a classic version, which is really, you know, it sells the point that it's really easy
to get the last bit out. No, I am absolutely certain they create containers that it's impossible
to get the last bit out. The only way I come back to that is do a lot of recipes to call for wine
and, you know, when I get to that point, use the wine to shake out the container.
Now, I'll say I would thank looking back through the chat. This has been the least,
you know, food oriented 24 hour show ever. Yeah, I tried to, you know, I tried to get
a food discussion started last night, but no one would take it. I was like, oh, but we kind of
got one now. But yeah, the food topics were great, great last time, really. Oh, damn, I missed out
on that, but I wasn't on the gun chat. We can do a food topic right now if we want to, but it's
not quite that last time as well. Well, I'm going to go for round four of Flaminion. I've
successfully cooked Flaminion three times prior to that this year. I found on YouTube a recipe
for Flaminion with a brick wine reduction. So I'm going to make Flaminion for the family tonight.
I don't even know what that is. So what's that? What is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, what's that?
Um, it's like the best part of the cow. It's the, um, you might call the filet of tenderloin.
Okay, I would need that. So it's, um, like if you know what a T-bone steak is. Yep.
All right, so it's basically one side of the T-bone steak. The small side. Right, right.
Which is not hard to do anymore because with the, uh, hysteria, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, about mad cow,
they will not let you actually cut a T-bone steak anymore. Mm-hmm.
But now that's really interesting stuff. Um, I got a buddy in Iowa that does, um, food inspection.
And he told me about the processing of the meat and why that's an issue. And it's because of
like you said, how they cut it up. Yeah, it's any animal big enough to be cut up for, for me,
it's like, oh, well, you know, anybody over anything over 20 months, we guys assume it might have
something in there. So they will let you have T-bone steaks. They got, you know, anything that's,
got, uh, the, uh, vertebrae, uh, still in there. So they got to cut it up separately.
Right. Right. And apparently that's the issue because the mad cow lives in the brain and
didn't have spinal column. And if you slice in that up and get in that around in the meat,
then you got a problem. Brains. And see, I always enjoy the moral out of that section of beef.
But I guess it'd be compensated for, uh, oh, I haven't posted this on, on, uh, G-plus, but there
are various things we always, uh, threw into the awful, uh, when we had a creature, uh,
critter butchered. And, uh, we're splitting, we're friends this time, but, uh, you know, uh,
they kind of beat me to it because I incredibly love chicken hearts. And, uh, she said,
no, we want the heart out of the critter. So we'll split it out to her, but, uh, I don't lie around
Christmas, you, you see the, uh, tribe in, in these stores with, you know, what's the animal stomach?
And with beef, you actually have four different types because beef has, uh, four different
stomachs. But, uh, I, I never, I never made, I've got a picture of it. I was going to put it
up on G-plus, but I, I never cooked ripe before. And, uh, so I grabbed some honeycomb's
ripe, uh, three, four weeks ago. And, and it came out really good, but it's like, uh, you know,
it's like it, it's like a lot of stuff. You know, it, it, it, it, uh, you know, involves
himself with the sauce and all that. I mean, if you had anything, uh, with the sauce, I made it,
it, it, it, it would come out tasting pretty good. So, but, um, yeah, so I, I made tripe the other
day and it, it, it, it came out pretty tasty. So, really located. Kansas? Okay, like KCMO or KCK,
what are we talking about? South Central, if you, uh, say what, if, if you, uh, put a pin in the map
between Dodd City and Wichita and, and if you bisect that, you, you'd be right at my house.
Uh-huh. No, I'm, I'm sorry, Wichita, Wichita on Dodd City. One more thing I can.
Let's see, I've flown into Wichita and I forget what airport in Kansas City I've flown into.
Yeah, we had some assignment the other day. Somebody flew in the 787 cargo model and they landed
in, uh, they didn't land it at, uh, mid-cans, they landed at Jabara and because they didn't know
where the frick they were. And I, I gotta tell you, I've, um, lined up for, I, I actually haven't
landed at the wrong airport, but I've lined up for a landing at the wrong airport. And then last
minute, the tower says, hey, by the way, and I think it really depends on the type of equipment
in the plane. So, uh, you really understand where you are. And that's an issue when, say,
two airports have identical runways, um, and you can manage to do that. But like, I, I have that
problem with my Garmin GPS and my car is, uh, because it's scaling all the time, I have no idea whether
the turn is in a quarter mile or in 500 feet. And I would actually have to read where it says the
turn is. But what I thought was clever is, uh, Google on the Android is now doing the maps and
they're doing the satellite view on it. So based on the size of things, you know, trees and houses
and buildings and the road because it's natural picture that you're driving on, you really
understand the scale of it. Now, I, I just got a new car and, uh, it has a GPS in it and what it
comes near a turn, it does a split screen. And then it shows a, um, bar, a vertical bar chart or
vertical bar, um, kind of like a progress bar, I should say, about how close you are to the turn
and it's incremented in feet. So you know how far away that turn is going to be and precisely where
it is in very good detail. Well, I, I thought in the last, uh, a few months or some states that
specifically come off of walls against, uh, Google glass and it's like, are you nuts? It's, it,
you know, it, it's a lot less distracting. If you have a HUD display, rather than, uh,
looking down at your dashboard to see where you need to go. Google glass, if you actually got
Google glass over there now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A couple of my buddies have it.
There's five C concerns, some extent isn't there as well. Wait, wait, wait, I, and I'm sorry,
where, where are you right now? England. No, England. And there's privacy concerns over citizens
being able to record or photograph things where you have a complete surveillance state with
video cameras everywhere. Not everywhere. Okay, not in the bathrooms. There's not in, uh,
anywhere I can see from where I'm at. And I know the bathroom. What, what we're saying is it's good
for the government to record you every moment of the day. But if a citizen does that, that's wrong.
I think it's more that it's, uh, the, the government don't record audio of everything and they don't
record video of everything. I'm, I am sorry. That is the most insane thing I've ever heard.
You're saying because there's no, I didn't finish what I was saying. Well, that's my trademark is
jumping in on your cell. Okay. I'm going to get my lunch. Uh-oh. Did I really do that? Uh,
yeah, dinner. He's left. He was going to make lunch, anyway, I think. Well, I'm sorry,
it sounded like he was coming to a good point. He might be back in my night. Please put
his bank in lunch. Maybe, uh, maybe you got disconnected or something. I've been in a confused
go wrong. That's how I'm doing. I don't know. Well, uh, I don't know. I, uh, considering how rapidly
I've gone through some money recently, uh, I'm surprised that I've turned down a buddy. Like,
right now in the US, if I think it was an initial group that was invited to have the ability to
purchase Google Glass, and then you had so many, once you bought them, you were given invites
to give to a number of friends, kind of like how Gmail started or a couple of the Google product
started, you would have to get an invite from a friend to join it. And, uh, it's 1700 bucks,
but I'm not going for that. Yeah, this Google Glass thing is, I mean, I don't
much about it, but it's kind of like, you know, people, you look at, so if I understand
correctly, anywhere, you basically, you can look at somebody out on the street, a webber,
and it will basically send everything you see in here off the Google. Is that correct?
You know, I hate to say it. I really don't know for sure. I wish they're, they're probably
as a YouTube video showing what the feed looks like, but, um, now I haven't looked it up and
I asked a buddy of mine, like, hey, so what's the killer app? How is that working? He just tells
me he loves it. But, I mean, that's the same thing guys did with a palm pilot 10 years ago.
Anyway, they'll be like, they'll be like the matrix, and then we have Google Glass A,
I guess, so I don't know really. And I don't recall the, the source of the story, but I
don't know if I was watching TV or listening to the radio, but some guy announced that his son
is getting married and his fiance is going to allow him to wear Google Glass during the ceremony.
I'm like, oh boy. Yeah, but then you get, yeah, but then you'll have like Google Glass, um,
well, at least here, I don't mean America's a bit different, but here they can build these kind of
like priority concerns about, um, for example, schools and having Google Glass being used to recall
whatever they're and all that kind of stuff, you know. So Google Glass, I think, has a kind of
enhanced issue when you're, as opposed to, no, that's not true. They have the same issue.
So in England, all of the cameras do facial recognition and they run through a database.
And so the potential is Google Glass can do the same thing. So I don't know if you're a predator
at a school and you see a child that you're interested in, whether you're going to be able to locate
their home or follow them home or something, if it's going to enhance that, that's kind of scary.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the kind of thing people worry about as well when it comes to these
things. All this is all the, like, anything to do with privacy and so on, but that doesn't,
that could be kind of an interesting idea, I guess, but it does seem a little, it does seem like
things are going a bit far in a way, like now you're going to, you know, wearing normal glasses,
okay, fine, you know, going on with your bathroom, that's pretty standard, you know, but when we're
talking about technology that people can actually start wearing or possibly, you know, one day I've
embedded in them, you know, things get a bit, well, depends on what you're talking about,
like, what technology you're talking about, but things can get a bit, it's kind of like,
it's kind of like, it's technology going too far in a way, if you know what I mean.
But it's always going too far. Hey, for you too far, did we, I was out of the room getting
a beer, do we give, do we give our greetings to the final time zone? No, no, that will happen to
an hour ago, I think. Yeah, yeah, we're in the like after show now, so we've done that,
that was an hour ago, the final place. What was that, Hawaii?
Some while I've got readings of the USC Baker Island, Howland Island. I think that's,
yeah, I think that was an hour ago because it's 12 hours behind the UK, isn't it, 12 hours behind
the UCC, so that's an hour ago because it's one of 12 now, I'll just gone past and you have to
need. Oh, we might have missed it, but if we missed it, you've been waiting around an hour for us
to get around, so you can do your kissing and, you know, whatever you need to do at the midnight
hour. Wait, so your drinking beer at 7 a.m.? I guess I am. Wow, when was the last time I had a drink,
I don't know. First off, I'm jealous and I've certainly done that in my past, so it's not that I'm
condemning you, it's just that. Well, I imagine this will be the last one, but yeah, I woke back up
in at 4 a.m. plus something and heard voices, so got back on, but yeah, it's hard to justify
drinking, continuing drinking beer at 8 a.m. Oh, that's what you switched to whiskey. Yeah,
it beers a breakfast food and whiskey is more post-breakfast. Hey, it's still dark outside,
I could drink beer if I want. Yeah, I remember that logic. I was 18 months also.
Dude, I think I'm older, you are at least as old. I'll be 48. I'll be 50 next year.
I'm the youngest. Oh gosh, so we went to see American Hustle and a movie theater in pop
peach gardens and I think my wife and I were the youngest people in the theater.
Yeah, I heard that that is not as good as the hype. Are you kidding me? It was really good.
Okay, I'll wait for the hit video. I tell you, I tell you what, while I was absent,
you know, my buddy here, he actually lives on the second house on this property and about
the one time I get to go over is New Gears to watch videos. We used to do it all the time, but,
you know, apparently he's busy, but I drug over a bunch of my videos and we picked out Blair Witch,
which neither of us had seen, so we watched that tonight. Really, when you haven't seen that,
when did you watch that the other night? Just tonight, that's why I didn't come back. I told
people four o'clock my time. Well, I'm going to do my chores and then I came back in. It was,
well, better clean up, get there for my dad and all that stuff. And then by the time I got that
down, it was time to go over and watch videos with my buddy. Apparently I came in later to
and then fell asleep and then came in now, so. Well, if you don't really know you,
it sounds a bit surprising to me that you haven't seen that film because I mean it's been around
for quite a few years now, at least. All right, I got to admit I have never seen the film.
Yeah, a lot of the stuff I wait for to hit the five part.
Weapon there? Yeah, you dropped out on that. Oh, he did, yeah.
I said a lot, a lot of the movies. I wait for it to hit the five dollar band at Walmart.
Yeah, I'm cheaper than you. I wait for it to hit red box.
Yeah, see, but I can't get back the next day. I'm not in town.
What's that? What's that box? Oh, shoot. Yeah. Okay. So in the US, there's these DVD vending machines
and their size or refrigerator and they place some indoors outdoors. So,
like Walmart or even like a McDonald's will have them. And so you can just go and get a movie.
You can, there's a web app and an app for your phone and you can see what movies are available.
The cool thing is like you could rent a movie in New York,
flight of Florida, and return it to local red box there. It doesn't have to go back to the same
one you rented from. What do you mean like a bit like a vending machine, a trap to,
well, yeah, a bit like a vending machine or like all you spent it and so you want to see that film
and then you get it all. Yeah, it's just like a vending machine and it uses a credit card
and you just swipe your credit card, you choose what email I, and they also have games in it also.
But I'm assuming they're like DVD type games. All right. Okay. Yeah.
So very convenient and yeah, if you want to rent something that you think is going to be a real
stinker, you know, you're out of luck or about 25. So it's not that bad.
But it's only the old movies I seem like cool.
They're not too bad. I think it's not too far behind Netflix.
Yeah, Netflix. Now that's an interesting one as well as the next users because,
of course, it doesn't, you know, it's not, there's no Netflix for Linux. Okay, there's
for Android, but that's, you know, a bit different. For desktop Linux, there's no Netflix and,
you know, do you still be bleeped? You watch it on some sort of other device in any way or something,
but what do you think about the whole Netflix not having Linux support? Obviously,
because there's digital rights management as well. I believe there's no, well, I think they use
Microsoft digital rights management, which of course could technically be ported. They're
Linux as well, but they use silver light. I didn't silver light. That was the other thing as well.
Well, there's Moonlight, but I don't know what's happening with Moonlight, quite right?
Yeah, so, yeah, I use Netflix all the time, but it's funny on our phones, on our
blue-ray players and on our computers. Yeah, I thought there was a way to watch it on Linux.
There it is, but, you know, you've got to use like a patched wine or whatever it was,
and then you've got to put the windows version of Firefox in there, and you've got to put
the windows version of silver light in there as well, you know, so there is a way, but it's
a bit of a hacky way, isn't it? There's a new way. Go back to KPL a couple of weeks. We talked
about it. You know, the old way you had to have wine, and you had an old version of Firefox
on your windows version of Firefox. That's what I just said. There's a new project out there
that has the API so that you could run the current version of Linux under Firefox or whatever
browser, but it will fool silver light in the thinking you're running an old windows browser.
So, you know, leaks a little better security, a little better on resources than before.
So I don't know if this is an appropriate topic, but sometimes I'll rent from Redbox,
and if I'm traveling, I have a Macbook Pro, and it doesn't have a disk drive. So I'd want to rip the
movie so we can watch it on the plane, and lately, Handbrake hasn't been working on movies.
Is there a way around that? If you're probably not meant to do that, so
oh, ever, you know, so, because I'll digitalize management and all the rest of it, you know, but
No, I understand you're not supposed to do that. I don't use a Mac anyway, so I can't
leak a cockpit car anyway. It's a handbrake question, and Handbrake is pretty close platform.
No, taking taking this slow,
can found a bitch like a little girl all last year, we didn't invite him to
all cast planet live, even though afterwards he said he never would have made it to it. So
we're we're starting to do, you know, the second version, and I've been talking about that earlier,
so, you know, we're looking at cannobles and and and and pencil venue, but he
it was just an IRC saying he wasn't a kid. His kid is definitely invited if he can get his
Irish ass over the fuck over here. You know, I think we could probably pull his read our resources
to get him into the right damn place. So, you know, can, you know, quit your bitch that you weren't
invited over here. So, we'll we'll do that, and 330 is going to be in China. How the hell are you
going in China? 330, come on here, explain China to us. How much have you had to drink 5150?
I still got some beer left. Did you have any some pine you this year? Oh, it's strictly beer.
Just beer, you know, my my standard 211.
Bay, you have plenty of eyes each. I've just seen that.
And what I just finished, I have to go get another now, but I'm going to try to go 330 to
joining us. He hasn't been on the day, has he? I don't think so, no. He might have been loud in there,
but I don't know. Happy New Year, everybody. Happy New Year, buddy. Happy New Year.
So, what's the time for good discussion right now? I'm just watching Snowflakes fall down in my region.
No snow here. It's just a rainy day, very cloudy and yeah. So, you're on the other side of the
pond, I suppose. Yeah. So, where are you located that it's snowing? Man, I'm in the wilderness
called Southeast Michigan. Uh-huh. I'm in England and I'm in Palm Beach, Florida. Oh, damn,
you should have kept your mouth closed on that one. You know, my wife and I went to Palm Beach.
I loved it out there, man. You know, the market, the housing market had crashed over there,
so there was some very wonderful palaces that were quite affordable, but I think we stay at the
four seasons and it's a very nice spot near the boardwalk. Oh, yeah. I actually, I don't know,
if I stayed there a night or two for my five year anniversary and yeah, the four seasons
is quite nice. I'm trying to get back there because I had this breakfast spot on the boardwalk
that I couldn't remember what it was called, but my wife, I got some fried, some type of fried
shellfish and stuff and a big platter. It was so funny. She got this huge platter. I knew that
she was going to eat it all. They brought it out, sat in front of her and she was so embarrassed.
That's funny. Now, you don't sound like you got a Michigan accent. No, but I'll give you a
couple guesses, though. Uh, it sounds like Louisiana to me. Did you say Louisiana? Yes, sir.
Negative. One more shot. Okay, here he is, then. Like, um, 51, 51's it.
I think so in the channel anyway. Go ahead, give him one more shot. One more shot, Rich.
Hmm. Georgia? Negative. I give you one more. Give him one more.
Oh, man. See, I'm just stuck on Louisiana. I can't, uh, I don't know, Mississippi.
Negative. Uh, you know what? I give you a hint. You actually spent a little time in that region.
I think you might be there now. Well, I'm in Florida. Oh, I'm sorry, but you at one point you were
in that part of the country. Well, let's see. I've been in Florida, Louisiana, uh,
Rochester, Minnesota, and that is not a Minnesota accent, uh, Maine and Long Island.
Okay. I give, uh, uh, I'll go ahead and tell you. I'm from Brooklyn, BK.
No way. Oh, absolutely. Born and raised. I would have never guessed that.
I know. I've been, I've lived just about everywhere for the Midwest, the East Coast, uh, uh,
you know, down south, I've lived down there for a little bit, but born and raised in New York.
Oh, really? So do you know where Brooklyn College is? Well, absolutely. Brooklyn College is, uh, down,
um, not too far from, well, midway. There's a cult school called, uh, is it not midway?
Well, let me see. Let me see if I know the avenue. It's, it's not, it's past,
flat push. We've passed flat push. I think it's on the East, the East, East and 80s or something like
that. East and 90s. I forgot what, what exact region that is over there. But, uh, yeah,
I've moved to Brooklyn College. I can't remember the address at the moment.
Well, Eddie, have a, have the football field on the white post? They have, uh, nest of
quicker parakeets. Have you ever seen them? No, I haven't seen that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I,
I have a pet quaker. So every once in a while, I'll go by there and check it out.
That sounds cool. I think the school, the high school I'm thinking of what's called, um, mid,
it's not midway. It's midwood. Yeah. That was the high school that was over there. They
used to play football, um, Brooklyn College because they didn't have their own football field in high
school. I went to Brooklyn Tech. That's how the high school, which is off of a flat push avenue.
Decal. Decal. Well, we're near near the world famous, uh, you know, uh, cheesecake
spot over there. Uh, right off of flat push avenue. Cool. And I'm driving back to New York,
either late Friday or early Saturday morning. I got to get a project done by Tuesday for a company
that I work only on site for. Do you think you're driving up in Florida? Wow. That's about
18 hours, man. Yeah. I kind of did a dumb thing. I didn't impulse fine. I bought a car while I
was down here. Hopefully you get one of those, uh, economy conscious vehicles. Why would I do that?
Because you got an 18 hour drive. That was the purpose of the car. Okay. So, so, so the, I'm
curious. What is it? What did you purchase? I got the 3.8 liter Hyundai Genesis coupe. Oh, nice,
nice. It's a fructa rocket. You better, better than that is warranty. Was it 150,000 miles, uh,
10 year warranty? Some of that. Yeah, 100,000 miles, 10 years. And something's taped raw after a
couple of years, but, uh, you know, powertrain body is 10 years, 100,000 miles. So I did get the
extended warranty. But the, um, the one of the, I don't know, first or second night, I had the
car. I'm coming back from dinner with my wife. I've got an AK in the back with a back seat folded
down and a most negon there. And I'm carrying an LC9. I get pulled over for speeding. Ouch.
And so the cop asks for where the registration is. I say, oh, it's, uh, under the folded down
back seat, he's like, you have guns back there. I'm like, yes, I do. Well, did you did you tell him
that you see you, you, you would love to have, uh, my local sheriff because, uh, he, he was on hand
for, uh, you know, the gun show where I bought my spits west of 45. And I asked him to do it.
I'm gonna pick up some bullets on the way home. Uh, do I need to do anything that said up on top
of the seat? What's the deal? And he was like, no, it's not freaking business. If you have a gun
and a car or not, you can have it under the seat and, you know, wherever you want it, I don't even
want to freaking know. Wow. Wow. See, in Louisiana, apparently, you, I think the lowest you have to
have it on your dashboard or your center console that it has to be visible. Well, that's why I thought
he either had to be laying out on the seat or locked in a, uh, you know, in the glove box.
He had a glove box and had to be locked, but in there, it's like, he was like, no, it's, it's,
it's not my fucking business if you've got a gun. Uh, I don't want, I don't want to know if you
got a gun. That's pretty, I haven't floated all the way through, but that, that's pretty
per second amendment. I am impressed. Yeah, I thought so too. Yeah, the cop asked me to step
out of the car and, uh, I was like, oh gosh, you know, I was waiting for the SWAT team to come
or, or I was waiting for him to, you know, say, okay, bend over and, oh, and I, I happen to do,
have some friends that are cops and basically, if you get pulled over, you turn off the car,
you roll down the windows. If it's at night, you turn on the light and the, uh,
pestering apartment and put your hands on top of the steering wheel so the cop can see them.
So he's like, you have law enforcement, you know, I'm like, no, no, uh, I've got a
Coast Guard of Zillary ID and he saw that. He's like, you Coast Guard. I'm like, yeah, you know,
auxiliary. And he's like, how long are you doing? I'm like 10 years and he's like, all right,
I'm going to give you a break. And I was like, thank God. You know, I told him it was, well, I've kind
of got it in. The undershairs wife is the woman comes out, help me, you know, once a week,
with my dad on the home health stuff. And, uh, so I know the guy and, well, I do hope that when
the sheriff retires, uh, he wins the job because he doesn't, it has to go someplace else. I'm kind of
screwed as far as parking somebody. Pretty close, pretty close. That's some serious small town crazy
stuff. No, but that could be anywhere. It doesn't matter. You could know the sheriff's wife,
and, uh, no big deal. Oh, but, and hey, people don't even have guns. Well, nobody could,
nobody could send him where where dad was. And it's like, would you like to have them? And they
should, oh, yeah, great. So, you know, uh, shipped them off to them this last week. So,
not that I expect any kind of special treatment or anything like that, but it is good to have a
relationship with the local law enforcement. Yeah, except for if you have the relationship,
I do with them. So, 330, what's that mean? And I must just woke up to the sound of you guys
jabbering on. Ooh, thanks. Hey, so do you miss Peggy or what? I wouldn't say, well, I do missing,
but my aim is improving. So, what's this about? You're going to China? Uh, it's a trip that my,
my kung fu teachers teacher is putting together. Uh, he did it about 10 years ago. Um, and he,
yeah, it takes us all over to China and, uh, we get a, a pretty unique experience.
That's, that's pretty cool. Uh, I don't know if you guys know, but my daughters, uh, from China,
my wife adopted her before we got married. Nah, I had no idea. So, we're always talking about going
back. Yeah, it's, uh, when, when people usually go to China, um, to go to some of the places that
we'll be going, uh, they tend to give you a, uh, a government-sponsored guide. But, um,
the, uh, the old triad society, not that, not the gangs, but the old triad society is still, um,
um, it's still together in China. And so, um, my, uh, Seagong is his, uh, his title. He, um,
he's actually in with that group. So it's, it's almost like a mob thing where we get to go places
where most people can't go. That sounds really cool. So you gotta take pictures and post them,
tell us what you put up to. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll definitely get posted. I don't know if I'll
be using the internet at all in China, you know, for obvious reasons, but, you know, no Google
less. No, but I was thinking about buying a Chromebook and using it while I was there, and then,
you know, on my way to the airport, just, you know, pitching it into a river or something.
I saw a refurb Chromebook, so 14 inches for, like, $2.29, pretty, pretty low price.
Yeah, I wasn't gonna spend any more than, like, $250 on him. You can get the little Samsung one
for that. Yeah, well, I, I was thinking about, uh, Teninch would be fine for anybody I know,
but I wanted to get my dad a 14 inch, at least. Yeah, because I'm not about to bring my computer to
China. That would not be fun times at all. I never thought about that because, uh, like, I got a
computer backpack, uh, or a backpack that, for a computer in SLR, and typically if I'm flying,
that's, that's what I, my carry on bag. Yeah, I, uh, I actually carry on everything, so I just
bring like a, a camping backpack. I bought one that fits, I went through all the airlines and found
the, the least space you can take up and bought a camping backpack that fits in that, so I don't
check anything. Yeah, Michael used to be not to check anything, but, uh, with Southwest, you get
two bags free and, and if I'm spending, you know, more than a week in Florida, I usually bring a
bigger bag with me. Yeah, I checked one bag, and it was on a Greyhound bus, and they lost it, and it
had my, uh, the, the bag was the bag that I used to carry my sparring gear in. And so it had my belt,
my manual, and, uh, another book in it, and Greyhound lost it, and like never reimbursed me or
anything, so my white belt was gone forever. How the frick do they lose that? That, that's
ridiculous. It's not like you're, you're changing buses, right? No, I was changing buses. I was in,
Knoxville, and, uh, it, it was my fault, but things weren't described to me very well.
Uh, I, I still had the tag on my bag from when I went down. I thought that the tag was kind of
round trip, and no one told me to put a tag on it, because as I walk in, there's a tag, and I go,
okay, yeah, and just, so I called, you know, every station that I knew was in between, and
everyone claimed they didn't find it. So, yeah, so I don't check bags anymore. Just, I, I don't
own enough things that I need to do that. Well, I've had bags not make the flight, but I've always
gotten them. Well, you lost something, you're talking about luggage, plain luggage, the extra luggage.
Yeah, I carry no extra luggage, only the stuff I can take on the plane. Yeah, but I mean,
I mean, just don't plan anything valuable in that, like a few clothes, and, you know, and if you
do lose it, it's not a deal, surely. I mean, oh boy, but I was thinking you could put your,
some of your clothes in your hand bag, and so if you do get completely stuck, you at least got
some clothes. You know, if you lose your big bag, you know what I mean? Well, at the time that I was
doing this traveling, I was traveling on Red Hat's dime, so I was broke. So losing even like,
a handful of t-shirts was like a huge deal, because that was always, I couldn't wear a shirt.
Yeah, this is when I was a bare-member of the students. Yeah, so I don't, I, I still treat the world
like I'm broke, and everything is going to kill me. Although when I start caring, I guess I'll
have to start checking luggage, because I can't take a gun on a plane. You are correct, sir.
And make sure your plane isn't diverted to New Jersey and you take a possession of your luggage there.
I hope that nothing ever goes to New Jersey. New Jersey is the asshole of the universe.
Anyhow, it's going to go on about some dumb things about checking firearms at airports, but
I'll pass, because it might get me in trouble. Did you have some not go so well or go fantastically well?
Okay, so here, I've never had an issue, but my mini-14 has a folding, telescoping stock of
less suppressor, a pistol grip, and several 30 round magazines. It's never been legal in New York,
but for a while, you know, prior to 2013, I'd bring it with me all the time whenever I went back
and forth to Florida. For two reasons, one, it's like, hey, Southwest, you get two bags free,
and two, like, I got my car permit in Minnesota, and Minnesota allows carry as opposed to concealed
carry. So you can carry any way you like. So my firearms instructor, whenever he could,
he would open carry so people would get used to seeing people with guns. And that was kind of
my other thought about checking a rifle and going, you know, on the airplane with that.
Well, like I said, later I learned that rifle was never legal in New York because of all the
scary black plastic pieces that, you know, articulate and other things. But each time you check
a rifle or a firearm in New York, a cop inspects it. So it's not like it's a baggage clerk looking at
it and saying it's right or wrong. And so the dumb thing is if you're at a state like Florida,
you can gait check or not gait check, but you could check your firearm and send it to a state
that potentially it's not legal it because they don't know what's in the case when you get there.
Oh, wow. So I mean, if you're really not cognizant of the laws, like,
and I don't believe this was the individual's fault, like, he's a New Jersey. And I don't know if
he had a flight from, you know, Florida to Maine and the plane ended up making a landing and
unplanned landing in New Jersey. And he took possession of his bags and in one of his bags was a
firearm. And boom, got arrested. It's like, what are you, what's the procedure for that? What are
you supposed to do? Yeah, that's, that's crappy. So you can totally get host. There was one time when
I flew back to New York and I had my rifle case and there's four padlocks on it. And I'm standing
at the curb waiting for my friend to pick me up. And there's about six cops standing behind me.
It's like, do you really think that I'm going to take a rifle, fly with it, exit the airport and
stand on the curb and then do some sort of gun violence? It's like I had ample opportunity in the
past few hours to do something like that. Now I'm out on the curb. Well, why would I do anything
there? Not that it's right, but at least you got that treatment for something that's a little
outside the ordinary. I almost got thrown off of a flight for doing nothing but going to the
bathroom. Oh, you didn't ask permission. You didn't say mommy, may I? Well, I brought my laptop,
which you know, I'm sure for people on this call is not an unnormal thing. You're working on
something. You've got to go. You bring your work with you. But the the air marshal did not find
that funny and actually broke her cover to call down to something or other. I don't know. And
was beating on the door until I came out. Yes, she was pissed. And I was pretty sure I was going to
end up with a sack over my head. Oh, boy. Nothing into the humming of it, but I haven't flown
since then either. So I may get the special pat down next time. Oh, man. You know, I never
thought about that. Like, once you get flagged, you might be in deep trouble. So she got your ID,
et cetera. Well, I mean, they know who I am. I bought a ticket and I'm sitting in a seat. Right,
right. Yeah. That that should be fun. Well, it's kind of like, I know people that carry and they
they don't want to discuss it. And pretty much I'm so out there already. If, if whatever authorities
that care about that don't know, they're, you know, whatever I do now isn't going to tip them off.
Yeah, I, yeah, I just recently got my conceal and carry permit in Indiana, which is disgustingly
easy and is a little concerning. But, you know, people are like, oh, man, I wouldn't tell anybody.
I'm like, really, I'm the guy who sits on every social network possible screaming that the government
is a false authority that people should, you know, be able to govern themselves and that all cops
are pigs. Well, the, I used to have the, and I don't know if this is just a long island term. They
talk about gang planking and there's a population push out to the east end of long island. So any time
a new resident moves out, they think that at that point, they don't want anybody else to move out
because it's going to spoil it. So they want to pull up the gang plank. And I had that mentality when
I first got my carry permit. And then I realized, you know what? I want everybody to carry because
then it's what we call neutrally assured destruction. It worked with me. Well, let's not have
everyone. Let's not have everyone. Because remember, there are people like pegwool in the world
that own guns. He can't see shit. He doesn't need to be firing anything at anyone. Oh, I think you're
an anti-dentite. I'm anti pegwool being able to do things. I mean, he's definitely the kind of
guy that would shoot the piano player because he couldn't hear the guy he was trying to shoot.
But yeah, in Indiana, it is disgustingly easy to get a concealing carry. You fill out a form
online. You get your fingerprints, you pay them a bunch of money, and that's it. No classes,
no instruction on how to use it, nothing. Well, and don't get me wrong. As far as the second
amendment, it says you have a right, which doesn't mean you have to take a test, doesn't mean you have
to pay, doesn't mean you have to have knowledge or skill. It's just like you're right to the freedom
of speech. You haven't had to register your mouth. No, but I see that specifically for me. I see
that coming. Oh, man. I'm not sure they'll make anyone else do it, but they'll definitely probably
for me. Well, you know what? Maybe in the blogosphere or so, they're going to be looking for
press credentials or so. You can't post things online unless you're credentialed. There was a
proposed law that started in California after that blogger wouldn't reveal his source on some
riot that happened in San Francisco. I only use the term riot because I don't want to have to
explain how a peaceful protest is then radically changed by the presence of the police, but
he had photographs of people destroying cop cars and the authorities obviously wanted to know
where he had gotten these chairs and who are these people? And he said it's a confidential source
and they tried to tell him he wasn't a journalist and they threw him in the clink for like three
years while they tried to figure out the hell to do with him. Three years? Yeah. Wow.
And so around that time, they started saying, well, maybe we should
more clearly define what a journalist is. And so everybody said, well, the easiest way to do it
is if you're making money from it, you're a journalist. And at that time, I had a blog spot or a
blogger account. And that day I turned on ads. Right. It was like, yay, journalist.
Yes. So I mean, you know, yeah, I I'll pitch some product that I don't think anyone should ever
buy for any reason to keep from, you know, going to federal pound me in the ass prison.
But when you talk about things like that, I mean, I don't know how many non-payments I'm away
from losing my house, my car, and everything. You put me away for three years. Certainly, I'm losing
everything I own. Oh, yeah. Along with the things you lose whilst in prison. And so when the fed
claims are with government claims that that's, they're right to entertain you for whatever reason.
Yeah. The punishment that you receive in concert with that is ridiculous. Which makes me kind
of crazy about when they say, oh, you can't deport them. They have kids. It's like, if I cheat on
my taxes, you're going to put me to jail and you don't care about my kid. Yeah. I mean,
kidnapping is kidnapping no matter who does it. Yeah, just because they've got, you know, goofy
uniforms and 10 things on their chest. Yeah, that doesn't make it okay. Which puts me on
probably the other side of the deportation thing than you. I'm like, who are you to deport them?
You're a guy and they're a guy or lady or, you know, whatever. So you really don't have a right
to tell them to do anything at all. Oh, I mean, are you an anarchist? We're we're coming from
on this. I'm a libertarian socialist. See, it's libertarian. I'm a libertarian socialist.
Okay. And I wasn't I wasn't calling you a libertarian. I'm saying, but I'm just making sure. Yeah.
Because American libertarians don't actually understand what the word means. Okay. And
libertarian is too many people, whatever they think it means. And I have a lot of views that are
more libertarian, but more conservative libertarian. I'm as far right as far left as you can get
while still not having a government. So yeah, I'm like, I see no borders. I see a bunch of fences
that, you know, racists put up, which makes it really interesting for the for me and the whole
gun debate, because I understand where people are like, yeah, maybe you shouldn't carry this here.
I go, you have a point, maybe someone shouldn't carry it there, but you have no right to tell them
not to. Mm hmm. Well, I think there's a bunch of interesting points to believe in property and
property rights. I do not believe in property. In an abstract way, I understand its function
in the current society, but it's been pushed to a really weird place that I can't really
stand with. Well, then you're completely consistent with what you said about borders. And if you're
not in favor of property rights, then that's completely consistent where I believe in property
and property rights and borders. This whole conversation is why I'm afraid to take a gun into
another state or to fly or leaving the country will be really interesting this spring if I get
to go to China, because I'm pretty sure they'll let me out, but letting me back in may be interesting.
Oh gosh, yeah, and it's a shame that you got to worry about these things or have those concerns.
Yeah, although I'm sure the government would, yeah, not not that I'm in any way actually changing
anything with my, you know, loudness and being obnoxious, but yeah, having me out of their hair,
yeah, might be kind of nice. Great, Scott, are we still on?
I guess we are. I just got on. I don't know what you're talking about.
Part of you just started, baby. Yeah, I think I've got to sign off. I think I'm going to go
for NAP 2.0. Yeah, some of you are doing all night's. Some of us just started a morning
or I did a seven hour break. All right, guys, happy new year. Yeah, happy new year.
Hope you round again for real or just in the channel. Yeah,
but yeah, I was wondering if we'll come back to our left party,
I think this group is kind of the the people who, you know, the party has wound down and they're
still hanging out, like trying to keep it going. Well, sort of depends, I guess, but yeah.
So I woke to hearing you guys talk about Google Glass. Anyone want to rekindle that?
Yeah, that was earlier. Just, um, some of you, this time we're having an America apparently,
and in England, they'll be, you know, they'll be absolutely loads of like privacy concerns to do with
that. So I don't really see it hitting off here any time soon, but I'm sure Popeye can comment
on this as well. He's in England as well. Well, the thing that I've found interesting about it is
everyone is worried about it legally when we should really worry about it culturally. Yeah,
that's that's exactly what I feel. Yeah, we have certain things already established. You
don't use, you know, you don't hang your camera underneath the, the, the divider and the toilet
and try to take pictures of the person next to you. So when you're in the bathroom, it's probably
the best thing to take them and put them on top of your head so they point at the ceiling
so that people who are concerned about it don't think you're taking pictures of their junk.
Yeah, and, you know, not knowing, you know, always, always having to be on watch, you know,
whilst it's possible for anyone to record, you know, have their phone recording a conversation,
you know, what I'm having a chat with someone. I don't, I, there's a social norm that you generally
don't do that. And it's kind of an accepted social norm that you don't record people unwittingly,
whereas the, what glass does is it puts you right in your face that they could be doing that,
and it makes it a lot more obvious that they could be doing, recording your conversation, both audio
and video. There's no ambiguity there at all. And so you, you always have to be more cognizant of
the fact that the person standing opposite you may be recording or you're doing all the person
nearby you in the same room as you or, you know, wherever you are could be recording you.
And I, I, that just makes me feel uncomfortable not because they're recording but because it places
the onus on everybody else in the room to ask the person we do glass on you recording.
The, I think the whole thing has come down to the last people, you know, I have a separate model
that says, no, I'm not recording your ass because I don't have a camera.
Well, then you've got that whole, you know, like cell phones, you know, well, does this one have
a camera? Does this one not? Does this have this feature? That's all kind of irrelevant. That's,
that's trying to use technology to solve a social problem where we already have things in place.
If someone's playing on their phone while you're talking to them, they're an asshole. So maybe the
person that has the glass on their face while they're looking at you talking, yeah, if they don't
just move it up to their forehead or on top of their head, we'll just call them glass holes.
By being a guy going in a restroom, you know, and shining his camera
a phone or or the glass, you know, under this, you know, yeah, we can agree that's that's kind of
crazy. I was using that as an example is like the the most flagrant foul of, you know, social norms,
but yeah, yeah, it could be anything where there's a, you know, sensitive time, you know,
any basically anytime somebody's got their genitalia out, you put it on top of your head.
Anytime you're talking to someone and you actually care about that person,
hearing and understanding and, you know, you being involved with that person, you just flip
them up on top of your head. I mean, it seems like a fairly easy thing to do, but
there will be people who don't want to do it because it's their right to wear this goofy
fucking thing on their head. Well, that killed it. I think I would get these silent bits
having that. Should we talk about things that America has that England doesn't?
Imagine I maybe. I was floored that you guys don't have red box. I figured that everything
McDonald's did ended up internationally. That was it, but isn't McDonald's? All right, didn't
it? Yeah, it started. They were trying to find a way to sell French fries out of a vending machine.
It was the original design and something went wrong with it, you know, the fries tasted like
ass or whatever, but they thought, well, let's not let a good design go to waste and they stuck DVDs
in it. Yeah, I mean, that'll probably work here as well, but from this, England's a bit like,
let's see, movies, more on sub to movies, okay, there's sky movies on TV, a lot of people don't
have that because that's the extra channels that you paint more for, but then, you know, even Netflix
is quite new. It's any sort of thing about two years now and there's not as much as America on
there as far as I know, but far as well. And also, something like Hulu, which
you Americans like going on about at times, there's no Hulu here, you know, we don't have Hulu.
Yeah, it must suck to live in a second world entry.
No, actually, for TV shows, England is generally I'd say quite good compared to
certain, quite a lot of other countries in Europe because we get, we've got all, well,
there's BBC and all that show, ITV, but we get, we get a lot of the American shows here,
we get all the, you have to, we have to have some of the channels in certain cases,
but yeah, we get a lot of the American shows coming over. Occasionally, they are,
annoyingly, a series behind America, there's a show I'm watching and it's like a whole series
behind America, I'm thinking, you know, that's not very good really, but in general, we're quite
up to date, I think they show it in America and we get it soon after or sometimes at the same time
pretty much. So, you know, we get a lot of the American shows, movies here as well and our own stuff.
So it's quite good and there's no, and we get, we get some of the other like shows coming over
on BBC Fold from Europe, like some of the, like Danish shows and Swedish shows, the subtitle stuff,
so we even get some of that coming over, which is good as well.
I was just poking fun, you don't have to, you know, stand up for your current place of living
or anything like that, I'm just fucking with you. No, no, no, no, I'm just, I'm just saying.
No, you actually have to because we're all, we're here, uh, all, all the doctor who's.
Am I the only person on the planet that doesn't like Doctor Who? No, I've got a friend who doesn't like him.
I, uh, I don't, I don't, I never really got into Doctor Who, I did watch some of the Christmas
special and a lot of people always say, say to me, if I say that, I'll go, well, no, you've got to
watch Doctor Who, but here's the thing actually, to be honest, I, um, Doctor Who, yeah, I'm sure it's
so clear, right? I don't, I haven't got into it, but, to be honest, I actually like, uh, the American
TV shows mainly, but it, I mean, documentaries are good, whatever they are, Americans, Swedish,
English, whatever in general, but yeah, I'm more of American TV show persons, to be honest.
That whole, oh my god, you have to watch Doctor Who you'll love it thing. I think is what killed it
for me. Yeah, every single person I bumped into was like, what, you don't like Doctor Who?
What's wrong with you? And I'm like, get off your fucking couch and like, go out and see the
sunshine, dude. Well, England, England, you got to see the ring. I have to see it now that I've
got it, I haven't seen it. So, uh, off to grab that, but, uh, yeah, if you're, if you're talking
about the old apps we used to get from, uh, Tom Baker, I'd have to fucking fight you 330.
I don't even know what the fuck a Tom Baker is. Remember, I'm not even 30 yet. So, everything
in the past happened at the exact same time. The civil rights movement, the American revolution,
the Old West, and the sacking of Rome all happened at the exact same vertical time.
Are you, are you, are you joking? Are you actually 30 or, anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm 28. So,
everything that happened previous to 1985, in my mind happened at the exact same time,
a time called the past. Yeah, you're, yeah, I'm on the other side of that. I'm fucking old. I, uh,
next year I'll be 50. So, then are you gonna change your neck to 50, 50, 50? Yeah, I, I may have to.
Well, I want to say is, uh, please not quite the same extent of Doctor Who, but I, I assume this
Game of Thrones and that sample really like a show, they're like, oh, you're gonna watch that.
Apparently it's the most pirated show as well, and of all time or whatever. But I think that's
partly because, um, well, at least in the case of UK, that will probably partly because, uh,
it only shows on, um, a channel called Sky Atlantic, which is only for Sky customers. So, anybody
on anything else, any other TV services in the UK, do not get that channels, and they won't get
Game of Thrones. And they, they showed it on the first series of year later on, Sky One,
when I, when I watched it. But, you know, I, so I think, you know, it's so popular, and a lot of
people won't have the channel actually shows on. So, I assume that's partly why, at least the UK
parity of it, that will be the reason what, and probably the main reason why it's getting
parity in UK, probably as much as it does, because of what I just said, because watch
how they're showing on, because they bought out all the HBO stuff or everything. And, yeah,
I don't know what that's showing on, but, yeah. I've never seen it. There are, there are certain
shows that I will just kind of refuse to watch, because everyone else is in love with it,
and I want to be that guy that goes, what the fuck are you talking about? Well, yeah, then, yeah,
I know Doctor Who for you, that game of phones or, or the Simpsons or Simpsons. I watch the Simpsons,
because I started watching the Simpsons when it started. I was a kid. But, yeah, same. But,
um, you know, but there, I mean, there are certain things that, you know, it, it will happen,
and I'll go, I have no fucking idea what this thing is, and I'm not catching up. I mean, I,
just three, four years ago, I just saw Battlestar Galactica, but since I was already so far removed
from it, I decided to watch everything from, uh, the 70s onward, and was able to watch every single
episode and every single web episode in one month. Really? Yeah. It was, uh, 10 hours of viewing a day.
Actually, yeah, I've caught up on series a bit like that as well, where you kind of,
where you go for about eight episodes in one night or whatever.
Yeah, I, at this point, I prefer for shows to do their entire run, and then I'll watch it.
And for those you playing the, uh, game, it's the light outside, and I am definitely, uh, Goddamn
I think some people did that with loss. They think I'm from your mind, actually, before when you kind of,
like, lost, yeah, okay, I'm going to wait until it's all over. Oh, they saw a little bit before.
I ask it, but now I'm going to wait until it's all over, and then I'm going to watch it from the beginning.
So, yeah, lost, but lost is one. That lost used to be the other one. Like, right, you've got to,
you've got to go and watch lost. Lost is so amazing. That, you know, that was,
an house game of friends, but it was lost before. And yeah, lost, lost me, went,
because you know, all my friends are, oh my god, you got to watch this. And I'm like, I was almost
about ready to fall for that trap. And then they started going, what the fuck is going on?
It's like they're just writing themselves into circles now. They don't know what the hell they're doing.
Oh, yeah, the whole last season, uh, when they said he wouldn't be, no, they're not, they're not, uh,
in purgatory. And then they said, oh, yeah, we'll start over again with, uh, new stories for everybody.
No, I mean, lost and, uh, JJ Abrams, uh, I don't think I'm ever going to reconcile that.
See, I just don't give a shit enough. My, my, uh, my free time is so limited at this point now,
that if something even begins to piss me off, it's dead to me and I just go on.
Yeah, why is that? What do you do anyway?
I, uh, along with my full-time job, I'm the director of, uh, a thing in town called the hardware
co-op, where we take, um, we take previously used computers and, um, repair them if they need it
and stick Linux on them and give them to, uh, underprivileged kids, non-profits, things like that.
And, um, anything that can't be reused is then responsibly recycled.
All right, okay, yeah. And when I'm not doing either one of those two things, I teach Shaolin Kung Fu.
About your full-time job, what's that?
I am, uh, the sole IT guy at, uh, at a, uh, I work for two seminaries that are in a partnership,
so I'm kind of in both organizations, but also outside of it. It's weird.
Yeah, okay.
Oh, it looks poopy again, didn't we? It looks like it.
Popey, come back. You can blame it all on me.
So what do you do, uh, to survive on the planet?
Oh, well, uh, yeah, that's, that's the, that's not really very exciting to talk about.
So flat, you should ask me, probably, what do you do for my dear, or something like that?
That's a bit more exciting to talk about.
No.
So you, you have the job you're ashamed of and then the thing that you do, I used to be there.
Not, not exactly, but I can't believe we're not really going to comment on that,
uh, uh, you're a fucking spy?
Yeah, I'm a, yeah, I'm a spy, I'm a spy.
A spy, I'm a spy.
My five, and my six, are you fucking James Bond?
Go away from the fucker.
It's fine on you right now.
It's gathering intel about those dim-witted Americans and their love of vending machines,
that sell them shit they don't need oh yeah yeah we're going to have a copy of the idea and
pull it in in England and with more than just DVDs and games and music it's going to have
something else in there it's going to be really successful and we're going to book billions and
you're not going to get any of the profits unfortunately it'll do video games DVDs and fish and chips
oh yeah fish and chips of course it's called have fish and chips
when we were in English without fish and chips would it now we're down to free I think free people
well there's us two and fifty I don't know if he's quite human at this point
I'm I'm still here he's an alcohol field zombie at this point damn straight
so it's it's light outside if you stop drinking like is that the is that when it stops
I'll stop drinking the ball runs so you're less of a zombie and more like a booze vampire
pretty much you know it's light outside here today but it hardly makes any difference because
it's just a it's an absolute cloud day rain you know it hardly makes any difference
if it had been night you know it's not much daylight out there so it's Wednesday it's overcast
in kind of rainy it's Wednesday in England yeah it's Wednesday well it doesn't always rain here
but you know it's just like it's winter isn't it so well I would rather have snow a little bit of snow
but it doesn't quite go like that sometimes it does know probably if it does snow then the whole
country is enough then the whole country is in the mess because it can't really deal with all
the transport issues and so on but apparently Sweden can be like this as well and they get snow
pretty much every year and they still have problems dealing with it you know yeah I mean even
here we have trouble getting things cleaned up sometimes yeah so I was talking to a friend of mine
recently and I was I was putting shit on England yeah because you know what else is there to do
and I had mentioned that it rains all the time and or you know that it was cloudy and it yeah
and they were like they're like really I go yeah it's like every day in England they have a 60%
chance of rain not quite true but yeah but yeah the idea is it rains a lot and people do tend to
complain about the weather and not everyone but it is yeah I said it so matter
factly though the person believed me and walks around saying it like it's a piece of trivia
so 330 jazz for oh speed live number two yeah if I can if I can swing it um
say like I was saying earlier I may end up in China um if it isn't at the same time it may be
close to that and so I'll probably be broke because that trip to China is going to cost me about
3,000 bucks but why are we going to China anyway I kind of missed it earlier or whatever I don't
my my kung fu teachers teacher oh yeah the kung fu thing I'm sure with that yeah he's he's
organizing a trip for a bunch of us to go and uh so we'll go see you know the you have the old spots
you know good to the the difference yeah yeah yeah you did see just earlier I remember that but
um yeah you go sell fun that by sounds yeah that's true it's going to be expensive isn't it if you
go do that yeah it'll be it'll be rough but it's it's a pretty cool thing we get to go see um the
place in Canton where they had the the stage fights there was a time in China where uh there was
10 families that had um the the oldest sons of the family were undefeated fighters they they
had a a call out to all of China and even some places around there people would show up to fight them
and they said uh any style and any weapon it will beat you and they were undefeated for you know
like a generation or two and so let's see we'll get to see the platform that they fought on
because the you could win by you know knock out by submission or by knocking them off of the
platform have you been out of America before because sometimes people are in America with so big you
kind of I think a lot of people sort of get stuck there and there's so many states so big you
kind of don't really maybe or they may go to Canada maybe Mexico but it I think isn't it a lot
I mean a lot of people don't really go out or out of North America do they now I mean it's
happening more often now um America is such a big place that you can go from
you know you know yeah yeah one or two states over and things are completely different but
in that one or two states it's like you going to Germany yeah well I mean I just go to let me
be to like Florida before and uh well yeah pulling North Carolina like that kind of counts maybe
not really but yeah I know I get the states can be quite different I guess like you're saying
well I went to South Carolina for uh the Southeast Linux Fest and from where I am in
Indiana it took me 13 hours on a bus that's yeah if it's if it's long big enough far enough
short 30 hours saying uh a flight to Iowa took me five hours six hours something like that
yeah yeah the the country itself is so big that yeah you can go you know
to different parts of the country and find you know completely different
climates and uh yeah yeah almost almost cultures um a lot of it's been kind of flattened out and made
extremely white but um yeah white what do you mean white made made to be very uh Anglo and you know
very uh very what we would call European yeah there's not all the the ethnic
pieces of a lot of these places are dying off but yeah because the the the consumer culture has
taken over all other cultures so you know um the the only bits that remain of cultures that were
previously big in an area are the kitschy parts that you can sell do you mean that you're talking
about like how everything's developed and there's not so much for uh farmland the forest after
the emis friends uh that but but also on a on a sociological level like um there are parts of
the desert southwest that you know we're we're uh aboriginal lands I mean they're you know there
were people there that had lived the same way for you know hundreds or thousands of years
and now it's you know it's uh a subdivision full of middle class white people and the middle class
white people are walking around with like uh as tech printed shirts and things like that you know
the the local uh high school may have uh in an indigenous person as their mascot that kind of
uh right yeah okay uh um I guess yeah um you're uh you're uh you're um but be like yes
you just kind of go over the and you go into different countries and it can be different
there as well but you're a lot smaller than America as well I think yeah quite a bit
but that's why you guys also do things like learn two or three languages because
the odds of you bumping into someone who speaks a language other than you is it greatly increased
from America where we kind of have to go out of our way to find someone who doesn't speak English
oh no I mean yeah but well yeah they do teach languages at school and stuff but um
thinking it's actually if you go to the mainland and you're up you'll find that
nearly everyone speaks English anyway so you know English is the kind of global language or whatever
and then this German is a reasonably big language and French and Spanish and being where
we're playing on where you are but then remember there was an idea that maybe actually
something on the new before but and it goes with your china stuff I'm thinking a bit
as well I think is they were talking about how maybe actually school should start teaching Chinese
because China is such a you know coming from a bigger economy now isn't it and all that so
it might actually be worth teaching Chinese at school rather than German or French in the future you know
yeah there's a at least in in my town there's a thing they put um gifted children into that they
they call early college so as as uh sorry I'm trying to translate to things from the American
school system to european so uh gifted are you talking about pendle you mean the concepts carry on
yeah carry on they're they're they're extremely bright they're clever yeah yeah for you that's
what you mean yeah for you mean gifted isn't bright yeah very clever ones yeah I wasn't meaning gifted
is some kind of joke is they're retarded no these kids are they are on their shit
that it's creepy when you talk to some of them but um they started teaching these kids in uh middle
school which is uh pre high school but not quite uh yeah what we what we call reception I think like
before school started properly but we know actually no that's more like kindergarten I think
yeah yeah and there's play school and there's yeah this would be year uh like six the rate
and they're six to eight is later one yeah but they were carry on they started teaching these kids
the across the curriculum they all learn uh Mandarin uh the the the main Chinese dialect
mandra yeah because they just say you know china is is up and coming it's you know it's going to be
here you need to learn a second language anyway why the hell not you know instead of teaching
oh we'll teach this group of kids German and this group of kids Spanish and this group of kids
French you know as they so chose they were just like no we'll just make it easy mandarin we're gonna go
well yeah I mean yeah like I said it's getting big and it's well a lot of stuff has been over there as
well isn't it so it's good language to learn yeah and uh the the reason it's called early college
is they actually uh when they graduate high school they they graduate not only high school but they
graduate from a a uh community college with a two-year degree so the the two things happen at once
uh uh fifty one fifty is he still around or the
collapse or something I think it's just us oh god what what will we do now I still gonna get
recalls and I think confound behind that we get off crap so we probably shouldn't have talked
all that shit about Ken Fallon right oh kid can take it oh he's he oh he's it so can we all
agree that Ken Fallon is probably a pikey I I I just see him and you know in his little caravan
updating HPR wildly actually we talked about canonical I didn't see uh poke gathering
gathering legal thing no poke I don't think you do that shit does anyone does anybody actually
meet Ken Fallon that I did no I've never been to Europe yeah I when I went to uh oh camp
oh like it's okay 2014 now so oh camp 12 then two years ago um I went to the HPR stand and um
I was yeah I was trying to again fallon at that stand you know I wasn't really into podcasting
at time as such being on one or two but um but yeah I find the HPR stand so I talked to him there
and yeah and I don't want to I don't want met I was an air of Richard Stalman or the only one like that
you know I just saw him do his speech lasted well 2013 so last year I'll see now and that was good
12 on spot set for water breaks um yeah because I want I mean I'm getting more famous or all kind
of thing from the episodes for me to see that's why I meant my question I was a guy who just uh
something still I think he's direct enough now he can't push the topic I've met Popey as well actually
so I met uh I've met Meddog uh John Meddog Hall several times um and uh I met Bradley
Kuhn at the first self at Bradley finesse named free software foundation guy yeah yeah yeah
I mean obviously at Fosden I've I mean I went for me to Fosden so I was there uh watching
a talk with them on the panel and this could fosden come in up quite soon at the end of the
month looking forward to that fall to that let's should be over there again I look to it um so yeah
I mean you obviously get these events and you can meet certain people or be in the same room
as them at least and uh there's no one to use identica I used to yeah it's uh oh but oh my name
but mine's not blank you know oh yeah it's changed to a pump higher that's right I mean like I met
I talked to even a bit a bit last year as well when I came across from at Fosden I'm about
staff you know but let's slice these events isn't it because you can go you can go off and you can
go and meet all these people who are into the same kind of staff for all sort of similar interest
you know and whereas normally I don't about you but I'm not I don't really you might have
used equipment or something like that but in general you're kind of surrounded by people who in daily
life who don't have those interests unless you may be working in the field or something you know
you know what I mean yeah um my favorite thing about the the the various Linux events especially
you know over here was it was a meeting of the tribes you know all the people I hung out with
in IRC were there so it was more fun to hang out with them than it we know was to try to meet famous
people no me I mean I've come at Dan Lynch because of all camp as well for example you know and
but yeah it's interesting these um only been two so far all twice for both of them Fosden and all
camp but but yeah it's awesome how many these events and you can get you can go along as part
of a project like I did with this perjure one you know I just sort of said right I want to
get involved with that I followed it for a year or nine and so I was running on again but I'm
going to do something and I'm going to do some of the marketing stuff or whatever and I have
my RC channels I'll do this was I mean you can you go along and you just kind of like you generally
just part of that project you just you just one of them you're in that project don't really
amount what you do and that's the other nice thing about every resource is a lot of these
projects you're you're accepted you're part of that whatever you're doing you've actually some
really technical development you could be doing artwork you could be doing um whatever but you're
part of the team you know it's nice isn't that you know yeah that's uh that's one of the great
things about the uh free and or open source community is the the hierarchy is fairly flat
yeah I was talking about how you know oh meeting these famous people but at the same
time you know people you know when when you first get into the community there are these people
that you know and you're like oh they're famous and then within a year or two you're like
oh yeah it's so and so uh how about yeah true yeah the the guys from tilts you know the first
year I went I was like oh my god I love your guys just show this great you know and within a year
to dance showing me his ass and threatening to rape my mouth yeah I mean chilly if you go to the
bend again or whatever you you'll meet these people again and then the kind of like
ults and my met uh so and so if we were I know I knew online that kind of feeding will
will start to wear off a bit if I think that's what you're trying to say as well because you'll get
to know them a bit or whatever you'll meet them again it's not really the same as it is the first
time well it's not that it wears off it's that you yeah you kind of the longer you're around the more
you kind of step through this very short hierarchy and you know then all the sudden you're a
somebody you know and somebody is excited to meet you yeah yeah you know I had I had that um I had
actually a fuzz them last uh 2013 yeah last year I can say 2013 right because I didn't realize
he was there I might I might have mentioned I might have talked to him and I see saying look I'm
going to go to fuzz them and all that and there was a guy who a de-developer of another
little institution a bit similar to this one some extent and and I came to back to stand for
this project for the second day and it's like oh this guy he was looking for he wants to um
this guy looking for you and it's like okay and um you know I went to the got back to stand
and the sky was there and it was you know it was a de-developer of this distro and um you know
he's all excited to he really wanted to make sure he'd met me whilst he was over I've
gone from Colorado you know he's been like seven hours flight going off to Brussels is quite
and you know he's really excited to meet me I think and now that's that's pretty nice
you know I mean I've tried to him here now online and got to know him when I see you but it's
just really nice that you just want to like make sure he met me whilst he was over and I had no
idea it was even there you know yeah I mean that's one of the things I love about this community is that
you know um the people at the bottom look up and the people that are being looked looked up at
feel weird about it like yeah the the highest level of the of the very short hierarchy is like
creeped out by being at the top of something yeah but also yeah and also nice is you know you go
to a van you go to you're part of some project you can meet people from you know different countries
you're all the same you're all part of that team it's a lovely example of this because I go
off to Fosdem and I'm meeting people from France I'm meeting people from Germany I'm meeting people
from Holland I'm meeting people from somewhere else possibly Finland you know it's all and then
actually this next time we're going to have a guy coming from San Diego he's you know he's
hadn't been thought he's been trying to events in America and so on and he's going to come over
from San Diego I'm going to meet him a day earlier than I would have done go a day earlier over
and and you know it's just and that's going to be quite interesting probably as well
so what do you do over at Mangia? Yep so I wanted to get asked oh um I
I've you know I've used various distros for Doric or two to a band two of years to some
peace in its iOS trying whilst my dear one wasn't development and things like that and I've
gone through various distros in the last ten years I started with um still record two in 2004
so anyway I I used to help out in the band two channels and so on and when it came to 2010 I thought
you know I want to I want to um do something a bit more official it when it was also I want to
do something a bit more proper I don't want to just do online support and so on I want to do
something I want to get involved with the projects and I thought a bunch of no because of certain
reasons so um and as as I'm thinking like I want to get involved with the project but what can I do
I'm not really a developer what can I do I I thought you know I'm going to um I'm thinking like
a distribution or an upstream project maybe or whatever I'm thinking you know and then as I'm
thinking this um the whole announcement of my dear uh the my dream before it happened in September
and I'm thinking like you know what this could be quite interesting it's going to be a new
Linux distribution it's going to be community distribution it's going to be everyone's going to be
volunteer and all that and it's going to be very democratic how you vote on who's on the team
you vote on who's having a depth either you vote on who um yeah it's all about voting and so
when I thought that could be interesting it's got it's based on Mandry which being a bound for
well Mandrake your old name and I thought that could be interesting so I basically sat up
on ISE channel went along on the day of announcement later on and just sort of kept smiling it for
about a year reading the blog checking out the mailing lists um I'm thinking you know do I
thinking like do I really want to get more more with this or not and how the year to sort of make
my mind up before I decided like okay we'll join the marketing team I will actually join this team
and um I've been the woman tried to get me to join the forum I did that and then it's kind of
strange three months later sort of thing I'll go ask to go to Fosden 2011 by Sunday Online but I thought
you know I haven't been to open source event before I don't really know these people on that
phone line I'm not going to Fosden not this year but anyway a bit sorry the year after 2011
December 2011 I decided to join the team came to that march and then I got a slight voting time
for who to be the leader and deputy leader of the team and um I got the mailing list votes for
the deputy leader of the marketing team so I was at that position for a little bit and then the
team merged with two others and I've just basically basically what I do is when I decide to I decide
to obviously promote this distribution it could be a podcast it could be public speaking um I've
done some public speaking about it in the past as well and um I've been to the bend and I've
always said to myself I want to get involved with a kind of more technical side a bit like the quality
assurance more popular something but then I find I didn't quite get into that but it's this letter
it's let but it led me to the log it I started getting to Linx user group because of this
distribution I knew about two years before but I didn't really go along for the same reasons
and then I've uh there's a speech locally about magia you can find out on youtube if you're
interested and then I did um and I went to and then more recently I found out about another
group all about about two public speaking and you know say I just I'm sort of like a marketing
person but why I decide to because it's all it's all like a wall and three thing
cool cool yeah I uh I get you I'm a uh an ambassador for fedora so similar roles
but yeah um time I get to vote on the like background and things like that we've been doing
that again recently um but um because we've got a release candidate magia for release candidate
is scheduled for the year six of January and that will have the new work work in it as well
so that's good but that's let that's part of the team my mom we we kind of um that's part of it as
well you kind of like decide on the background and you can do the website if you want to and you
can do the things like that as well so yeah also how long you've been doing that um yeah like I
said sort of found out about it going to start to join the team in December 2011 and so on from
there really um there's like the first project I decided to like properly contribute to because I
like I said before I tap with a bunch or and I see and things like that in the past but I wanted
to do I wanted to get more involved with a project and and you know think various things led me
to this one and and it's been very some of the things that happened as a result of this project
to get involved and so it's been involved I mean it's really been so kind of linked together and
so really has been life changing and that's the other nice thing about open source it can really
change someone's life and like you sort of said earlier you can go from a kind of nobody or
somebody who who isn't really you who isn't really anyone the search to somebody who is a bit more
of a someone I think that's kind of what you said earlier as well now what you said earlier sort of
thing yeah yeah but the difference is with something like this distro and something like a bun
to and min and whatever is in general attitude is kind of like yes you can you can go and um help
promote it and get it out there more but general attitude is kind of like from certain people in
the community is that who's more like there isn't really a competition it's a good distro for those
who want to use it that's the kind of general attitude that the project has through as a whole
thing from a lot of people is no it's not it's not it's not it's not a district it's going to
has a goal of like becoming the most popular lens distribution or something like that that's not
believed the goal of the project my favorite my favorite sorry I'm hearing myself there we go my
favorite term for this was coined by Ted Hagar who used to be the community manager at open
suits and he he called it cooperation is it cooperation cooperation is it was cooperation but
being competitive at the same time because everybody thinks the the distribution that they're
working on is the best one or you obviously wouldn't be doing it you're not going to put
poor time into something that you think is crap but at the same time you know we're part of
this larger thing that is trying to accomplish something and so yeah the internally you know we
get into you know petty kind of you know stupid bickering arguments but to the outside it looks
like a kind of cohesive thing going now yeah I mean you mean the district like we'll kind of
on the same team even though we've got our own distros our own for districts our own for
instance faces that tries out what you mean yeah yeah I mean you know the the free and open
source community is one team and we happen to inside of that team poke at each other you know
incessantly but I think you know and that's where the competition comes in you know oh is you know
is a food better than bar you know those those arguments done constructively I mean those arguments
do kind of take on their own thing and go off into some kind of weird magical land where nothing
good ever comes of it but a lot of times that drives innovation within an insulated group
but yeah but I mean you you you you go for a district because you kind of your own reason during
personal reasons so for example this one what what really appealed to me was the whole thing about
like this is this is going to be a four command river right but it's going to be all non-profit
everyone's going to be volunteer all that kind of aspect there's a nice diagram
and spending how the community like is set up on the site as well but that's what appealed to me
because I I thought like you know that's very much so in the spirit of open source isn't it
to have all these volunteers and doing so obviously I've paid a lot of as well for I wish it's
absolutely fine as well but I just like the idea of the old idea of volunteers because when I
found out about open source to begin with I I got when I was when I was younger and I had the
impression that a lot of people were volunteers and I think that's awesome that you have these people
who are volunteering there free time and doing all this all this stuff that obviously I'm going to
add here you obviously paid developers as well because for certain poets or they just wouldn't
simply wouldn't happen it wouldn't work and that's fine as well but you know it's just great how
you have a mix of all these different types of people in open source and all these different
poets as a result and it's just it's just amazing we've got a whole ecosystem of of all this you
know all this software that it's just it's just amazing really isn't it what can be done but
even though at times you get all this in fighting and so on as well but even the despite that you
get all this great software anyway you know it's amazing isn't it it's it's it's incredibly amazing
but it uh I was just thinking about this it uh it seems less amazing the more you're around it because
it becomes the norm oh yeah sure and so then when you look it when you look at the way everything
else is done you're like this is barbaric and backass word and you know ridiculous how would
anyone ever get anything done this way and that that's yeah it's a it's kind of funny yeah
because in my job I have to deal with a lot of proprietary systems and it's like if someone would
just give me the fucking source code I would have a look at this and see if I can do something about it
yeah but yeah but what's what is a bit sad there is when you get um when you want
sometimes the whole the my history is about the rules all no minds battle or interfaces and kind
of like things that can happen because of that like um because because then general I think
people should be more accepting that everyone is a bit different but all in the same team
but at times that that really does not come out um in various examples you know I think those
times the big times where that happens are few and far between they're gonna happen um you know
making a big deal about it is something for the press yeah the the the people who are falling
yeah Ken's back I think you make kid quit ruining everything
I can give fucking give yeah I do I do actually I'm doing an event I'm doing an event later this
year with some people from my Linux user group and um we had to and we had to go for the whole like
like what distributions are we're gonna have what interfaces are we're gonna have because
this is gonna be aimed at the general public and um so um and then the idea of how
we're gonna have we're gonna have two or we're gonna have three or we're gonna have maybe more than
that and um the man boy I put my history forward of course but it didn't it didn't get um
anything get accepted by the others which is a bit unfortunate but but you know but I guess
so bit I mean the idea was to have an event on the day where people will come and from some
people will come from windows and if we can get back here right and they will get introduced to
some of these Linux institutions and they will possibly make the switch and so in the interest as
a whole that's kind of like a good thing I could have just quit and said look you outrooted my
thing I'm not gonna do it anymore but I thought you know um I'm not gonna do that because in the in
the wider uh uh good of things it's still a good good thing even though it's now being done with
these all these other distributions not my own personal thing you know I mean yeah and you know
those allegiances change you know you may not always be the mangy a guy yeah you you may go you
have had enough of this or the you know this thing peaks my interest or so yeah yeah but I mean
I used to really be into a bunch who in the past for years you know I was yeah very much so into that
but I kind of then changes happened and I'm obviously into this project and um and then you might
and then you might move on to something else as well or later on depending what happened the
last life isn't it things change yeah but that that's why you know uh people who have their head
firmly placed on their shoulders tend not to get incredibly upset when their preferred distribution
of the moment isn't featured in some public arena it's like yeah whatever yeah you just go all
right well I guess I'll yeah I'll deal with this Linux distribution for the time being
yeah I mean that's what you know so I'm doing here it's like I'm just yeah I'm just saying really
so when talks talking amongst the group you can you can do that high and mighty oh I guess I
will bring myself down to the level of this but you should never do that in public what do you
say what do you mean we'll say like I'm gonna pick up lots of context or oh like when when you're
talking to the people in your log and you're in you're just you know having fun and you know
poke and fun at people you can you know you can say oh I guess since Mangia didn't make it I will
step down off my pedestal and use use your common distribution and then you know when you're
talking to the public you just go oh yeah Linux is great all the distributions are great no it wasn't
it wasn't like that I mean these are quite good choices that were made I'm just it's just like
kind of one mind thing in as well but it was then that we ended up with too much choice basically
so something had to add to go and that's all really yeah really the important thing is to keep
ridiculousness out of the public I uh I had a a spat with I uh one of the big guys in the
pearl community one time because he told a the listeners of a podcast that he he would never
run Linux on anything that was important when he was to be the the poster child for open source
oh what was this I was just some the ignorant internet spat I had with someone several years ago
but I yeah I'm just I was just trying to reiterate the uh the importance of
being proper in public and you know you can choose to be a wanker later on
but I'm looking forward to this event because it's going to be because we've got like one
windows like we've got some interfaces and it would just be interesting to see what people actually
go for and stuff and how many people actually turn up as well and so uh what different uh
window managers are you showing again with um KDE unity and cinnamon that's a fairly decent cross
section and it's supposed to be kind of more about interfaces I think as well that was in the actual
distros that are underneath beneath that so yeah we have to say weapons most people won't
know that there's a difference underneath that all they see is the is the gooey and for a lot of
people that's all that really matters yeah the difference between Ubuntu and Debian and Fedora
and Mangy and yeah if if someone else is is admin for that system they don't know any different
yeah that's that's I think that's the point that there's people I think the idea is basically people
are going to come along they're going to see the demonstration computers and they're going to
basically pick something by uh we're going by an interface rather than any of the you know
the technical list and that or distress and all the rest of it you know early on I would you know
when I was doing more Linux evangelisms than I am now because I've run out of time
but uh you know people would say oh what distribution should I use and I'm like whatever everyone
else around you is using that way you can get help oh yeah yeah but when I um hash when I
when I did a talk about this one uh so 2012 I got you know afterwards I had some guys coming
up afterwards like yeah good talk and all that and I got I of course I got asked by somebody
why should I use the save of Ubuntu and I wasn't very at time I wasn't very kind of prepared for
all that kind of question because I hadn't really done the like a talking stuff and I'm thinking
but I think I think I think that's a good good approach to have it's basically you know what
if you want to you can use whatever distra you want you can use whatever interface you want
and and instead of instead of like no no no my distra is better than yours my
distra is better than yours all all all that because actually when I got introduced to um Linux in
the first place and open source and okay I've been trying out of homes and windows and all that
that was quite young and I got a friend of mine he he introduced me into to open source
in sorts thousand and three thousand and four and he he was using slackware and he always said at
the time um I said to him and I said okay what what distra should I use and he would be like you
know what I use slackware but I'm not going to tell you what distra is to use you have to decide
yourself and lines of that picking between Debian and Fedora and some from now and I think that's
good thing in general to have um people making their own choice but obviously for um certain events
or like what I was talking about or um if you're gonna come like your family over to a distra or
something like that you know then you might have to pick four people but in general it's good
that people make their own choice I think yeah instead of having it done for them by someone
yeah um we've kind of had that that go on at the the Kung Fu school that I teach at um one of
the other teachers is also an IT guy and he's he's a BSD guy and so he and I are always
poking fun at each other playfully I mean you know it's it's all in love but um yeah the the
computer at the Kung Fu school has to run windows has to run Linux or BSD because the two guys
that know anything about computers don't use anything but those two and so like yeah everybody
else is like what the hell is going on with this machine to be like oh no that's cool it's yeah
it's it's building this it's doing whatever but um yeah it's like as long as the fundamental things
happen like can you watch a YouTube video can you check your email yeah as long as those things
are functioning everything is perfectly fine yeah that's what um for this event obviously we're
going to be there'll be target coverage as well yes you can do this you can do that but um why
I wanted to go back to actually is that the whole idea of uh we talked a little bit about competition
I think our distributions and competition and all the my batteries um my destroyer's better than
yours and all that and it's just it's just kind of sad in a way I mean I'm thinking one can
actually say here um I think to some extent actually the whole um the whole thing about like
right we got all this choice which is great but then the whole thing about no you should be using
my destroyer or you should be using this interface or that interface isn't any good or
and all the rest of it and people not quite being accepting of all these different choices
I think to some extent that um we're if we're going to talk about popularity of this going you know
then it's going more than distribution is going more mainstream in that in that kind of context I
think to some extent this all this um opinions all this uh stuff about this one being better than
that one and all the rest of it is is pulling what holds back um you know desktop layouts from
going more popular really to some extent because people will some people are going to you know
to go online and they're going to um read some of it and they're going to be get all confused and
you know and uh with something else like a Mac you don't have that really because you have
the one system I'm totally for choice I just want to say here the whole and the idea that
a lot of choice is fragmentation I disagree with that as well because I've seen that a lot on
online I think it's great to have loads of different interfaces and distros but I think that
people just should be collaborating I believe in distro collaboration where people um all
accepting of each other you go to an open source event it's a great example you you got your
various foster them um yeah foster them all you foster them as an example you go off there they put
the um distributions into one building and some other projects and you you can uh you can
have leave buffs you can have open office they can have whatever and you know people kind of just
like okay yeah this is our stand you got your stand there there's no people just kind of get along
with each other and there's no or from what I've seen anyway and there's none of this like oh you
know what oh um I've got my distro here but you know I don't like you're so I'm going to um
it doesn't you know there's none of that people I think people just kind of get on together
at these events and they realize that they're all a bit different and then you go online it's
all opinionate heads and so on that's the difference if you get to get what I mean
yeah I get you to get what you mean um but you have to remember that not everyone's goal
is the popularity of Linux some people have you know some people the only thing they're concerned
about is superior technology oh yes there are some people that they're only concern is software
freedom and those people won't always jive with our kumbaya let's all you know let's all hug
in you know play tambourines and have a drum circle um and and those people are are perfectly okay
and are great to have in the community as well as the you know the the kumbaya let's all love
each other people I mean yeah you get some people who who I mean I met some well you know some
people they're just like you know what market share of desktop Linux it's like I don't
it doesn't care you know they're just happy that they're using themselves and don't care about
getting more users but that's fine you know it's um and besides I'm assuming some of these people
even going to be developers of certain projects that are really important and they don't really
care about market share and all that but that's fine you know you need like a mixture of
different people I think in general for a lot of things and it could be open source so it could be
someone else you need it's nice to have it's good to have different opinions but ideally these
you should people should kind of accept each other that they might always agree with each other
and just kind of get on and um and you know things go forward but as in getting stand still on
something because of different opinions or I forget if you know I mean yeah I agree with you
that that a general kind of getting along is important but I mean there are some uh there are
some arguments that should be had and should be had with uh absolute fury and honesty you
know the the free software contingency those people it's it is a it is a black or white situation
is the software free software yeah and and those people should have a voice even if you don't
agree with them we need people that are as far to one side as you can have so that you know the
the limitations of the the project you're working on you know without people like uh Richard
we have no idea you know I didn't quite mean that but yeah I mean that that's great as well
that we go back to your style and definitely because he um he's very specials opinions on them
but what I meant is kind of like um we should all kind of in general it's all like you're on the
same team and you should kind of get on on that a realize you're on the same team you might have
different opinions here and there but you kind of want the same level girl or or uh
but I'm talking like kind of like the popularity thing again market share or whatever so
it's like some people like oh um I want desktop limits to go really popular but
they don't like a bunch who it could be or something and they but if you look at the wider picture
you realize that having like a bunch who is actually going to make desktop limits go more popular
even though it might not be quite their um distro or the interface or you know
are you still there yeah sorry um yeah I I agree that you know you know again that
getting a getting along is you know a a best tactic but yeah again remember that you know
you know there are people who are on the same team that don't have the same goal
oh yeah yeah you know there there will be people who are most definitely on our team
but will you know they see certain things as problematic you know and again the
I've jumped from from team to team uh within the team a lot you know I've been on the
the you know the the free software side of it and still kind of am um you know that things
things by default should be free software you know your choices your first choice should always be
free software but and and and as a younger person I I believed that and tried to force other people
to believe that and and in the same way you know at at a time I was very you know everyone
should use Linux this is the greatest thing on the planet you know you know and I was part of
that popularity group and what I what I ended up doing a lot of times was alienating myself from
the other groups because I didn't find their their goals to be as important as the goals I was
after and uh at this point in my life I'm very much you know people can have differing opinions
and and even opinions that go directly against each other and everyone can be right at the
exact same time oh yeah I think I see what you mean yeah um I was thinking the same thing you
talked about kind of like I think you're saying like when you were young you were kind of like you know
if open source or free software is the best thing and you should go use that because do do do do do do
do do do do do is that what you meant as well yeah yeah and yeah and there's personally you know
my own beliefs that is still my belief but um but I I've changed my tactic for for dealing with that
you know, when someone says, you know, hey, what kind of computer should I buy?
You know, I, I tend to, to give suggestions for types of computers I know will run Linux well.
Even if they're not going to run Linux, knowing that someday, you know, they have that horrible
virus that trashes that are computer and you can go, you know, you do the thing where you go,
well, you can buy a copy of Windows for like 150 bucks or, you know, I've got this,
this Linux thing that's free and does the same thing.
Yeah, um, it was how I'm just thinking.
I, I mean, I agree with the whole idea that kind of in general, that open source or free software
is to kind of like the way to go and sort of the best thing because does it the, um, obviously,
I can, I can see a pace for close or software as well.
If we're going to be on this discussion at times and things like that as well.
I see the place for it for the user.
Um, uh, I, I kind of, uh, morally, I have issues with it morally and, uh, some of it is the,
the free software thing where, you know, you know, the, the individual user deserves freedom.
I'm also an anti-capitalist, so I don't think anyone should make any money doing anything.
You know, money should, you know, a financial transaction is a, is a coercive form of tyranny.
So, yeah, in the same way that, you know, I can't push that on people either because, you know,
now, all of a sudden, now, now I'm the dictator. So, uh, so yeah, yeah, I've gotten softer.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, if he spests out an opinion, not what, you know, it applies to anything really.
If you go and, um, say to some other person who doesn't agree with that opinion,
depending what it is, it could be all like, um, you know, it doesn't really, they, you know,
it doesn't really work and they, they think differently and then get some issues or whatever.
Yeah, so, yeah, Linux evangelism is fun and difficult because you have to,
uh, starting out, like as you meet a person, you kind of have to speak to all three things
at the same time without excluding anything. So, you have to speak about the, the technical
superiority, the, the, uh, popularity and fun and the free and open source aspect of it.
And then as you're talking to the person, you see which one peaks their interest and you kind
of work that way. It's, it's fun. I love talking to people at events and just out and about
about free software because it, where I used to turn a lot of people off because I, uh, I only spoke,
you know, as one group at a time, speaking for the whole community, it, uh, it's a lot of fun.
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, it could be fun to go and, uh, tell somebody about,
it could be online or possibly otherwise somebody who doesn't really know about open source,
it can be fun to go and tell, tell them like about it and what it means and source goes available,
general public and all the rest of it, you know. But, of course, the issue with that as well is,
if anyone you're talking to, it could be all, it could be too overwhelming, it could be too much
information and they can't be handled it. And so, you've got to kind of do it in a certain way,
you kind of got to cater for the person who you're talking to. And that, and I think that applies
to, um, distribution promotion as well, actually, it would be that, um, when it comes to people
who are already using distros in this case, rather than people who aren't, yeah, because if you are
going to try and, um, push the idea that your distro, uh, might actually be worth them trying out
because of whatever reasons, you've got to kind of like, um, you look, I think you're like, you know,
you're the cater for what you're talking to, don't you? And, and, yeah, but what I was saying
twice earlier as well is that the whole, uh, I mean, to some extent, the competition between distros
or the idea that there is, is, can be good because it leads to some innovation, but on your other hand,
it, it can hold things back as well to some extent, depending on what we're, what we're referring,
you know, what we're talking about, referring to faculty, because, because, um, I mean, I mean,
in general, certain things can, can stop, um, progress from going happening or going forward when
it should, if you, yeah, but it, it's really time that allows you to decide which one, you know,
which was good and which was bad because, yeah, there have been some furious, horrible fights
and the, the free software community that, you know, people were just sure it was going to,
you know, everything was going to go under. We're all going to die and that turn out to be
really important useful arguments to have had. And so, um, I don't want to dissuade anyone from
arguing. Just, you know, I mean, some, I mean, some, some of these arguments is it's good to
happen, but what I mean is, some of the other arguments, it kind of like, it can split the communities
or it can hold progress back and, um, or in certain cases, it can cause what some people
call fragmentation, you know, as in like, more interfaces choice, which I'm totally full, but, um,
going, you know, the whole gloom-free thing is a great example of what I mean by the
so-called fragmentation that people call it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it,
so-called inmate. And, you know, and, for that, you know, I think I see that as a good thing because
I mean, it's no choice. Anything, only downside to more choice, of course, is from the whole
if you're going to get somebody new into the, using this Linux, or, you know,
they're not, like, you know, confused by the choice if they find out and they don't really
understand, but that's the, about the only downside I can see to having a lot of choice when it
comes to interface, or going to even be file managed, or there could be this way, if it could
could be browsers, anything as it can confuse people who are used to having so much choice
because they've come from Windows or whatever the reason. In general, I think it's good
to have all this choice of different programs, but as long as the course they've also maintained
in the distributions in this case that have these packages because having loads of packages
that aren't really maintained in the repos of any distrares isn't really a good thing.
I think maintaining the software and making sure that those choices are, the choice is
always a good choice because I mean, you can't go wrong. You can't pick a bad window manager.
They all will manage Windows. They do that fantastically. You can't choose a bad distribution.
They all perform a fundamental task very, very well. But if the packages aren't maintained,
now we have that problem of, oh, well, this one is crap because it literally is crap
because no one maintained it. The problem of choice is only really a problem when it's
a problem of maintenance. I agree with that. You need to maintain these
packages always to get old and it can be a good thing.
Because the choice thing, everyone ends up doing it. You start out with the distribution.
It comes the way it comes and you mess with it for a while. Then once you start to get
comfortable, that's when you start looking around. That's a perfect time to go looking
around, search it. Generally people are befuddled by that. It's a feature of our community.
It's not a problem. Letting people know that the thing that they're going through or the
thing that they chose to go through is natural and that they don't have to do it if they
don't want to. You can use the same thing all the time no matter what if you want or
you can go search around. The reposers there have fun. But letting them know that it's
not a requirement and letting them know that the feeling like they're swimming with a
lead vest on is okay. We just got to let everyone know that the thing that's freaking
you out isn't a problem. It's okay. Enjoy it.
You have to choice to look around. I wanted to get back to what you said earlier about
there's not really being a bad distro. I would say in general, sure. All distros are good
or pretty much. But obviously a bad distro, I mean, depends on what you mean, a bad distro.
If somebody puts a distro on and doesn't really work on the hardware, for example, they
might think, oh, that's a bad distro. Or if they try and stall it and they get it as
a pair or a distro or something, or something like that goes on, they might think bad
distro. But on a kind of related thing to the idea of bad distro, I just thought of this,
some people think, like, at the moment, the thing I'd like to, for example, is the most
popular, is very popular distribution and the one that should be used, if they're new because
blah, blah, blah. Or mint, even. If somebody comes new from Windows or Mac or whatever, and
they installed that distro on their computer, well, they try to and they get certain problems.
Do you need downsides of distros? As much as I was saying, yes, it's great to have all
these distros, all this choice and all the rest of it. One downside, in this case, would
be if certain people try out certain distro and they have issues, they're not just going
to end up thinking that that distro is bad, they're going to actually think the whole
of Linux is bad as in any distribution and then they might not try out any other
distros. There's an old adage that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make
it drink. I think that works here. If someone is going to be deterred by any little problem,
they weren't ready to move anyway. They were just angry about whatever they were using
at the time, but not angry enough to really do anything about it. That's fine. Those people
will come and go and it's not a problem, it's not something that's wrong, it's just people
being people. Well, yeah, that's true. But here's a question. Do you think what do you
think is the best way to actually say free software? You think fuel free software realistically,
if you're going to win a lot of people over from Windows, who have been using Netflix or
using Skype or whatever, do you think realistically the best way to win them over to Linux or
if they're going to even go to Linux, just give them a normalizer with standard software?
Do you think it might be a good idea to actually pre-install some of the proprietary things,
the codex, the Skype, what do you think is kind of like the better way to go? So kind of
putting maybe in this case, putting to the side a little bit the free software, the best way
to go and all that kind of moral aspect there. I'm talking about from a national user point of view,
what do you think is a good way to get people to come over?
It depends on how you're doing it. Like the work I do with the hardware co-op, I can't put
non-free software on there and then give it away. Because then that is an official entity
redistributing software. And, you know, I legally people can argue that with me, but
that's not something I'm willing to do, you know, for fear of, you know, legal repercussions.
But what I do is when I give the computer someone, I'm like, hey, so flash and these kind of things
aren't installed. If you want them, I can totally show you how to do that. Or if you want it,
me as a person, I can do that for you. Not on behalf of this co-op or not part of my job
at the seminary or things like that. I just say, as a person, I'll totally help you out with that.
But I tell them that there's that I can't agree to the software terms for them
because then that violates the license that the people want you to go by. And then when they say,
well, why can you then give me the rest of it? And I say, because those are good people,
and they want me to give you that. The license, he wants to go by the district, or do you mean?
By installing software that is non-free, that, you know, that might be proprietary or may have
certain legal issues, even though it's free software, it may be illegal in an area to install.
I tell them that it's there and they can get it and how to do it, but I can't buy default,
give them a machine that does that. Oh, yeah, I mean, like I'm hand on, we had a little discussion
about this earlier, I think, but I can't hand on Joe Sgritch, the country and so on, but do it patrons
and that. Or you can distribute it, but at least you do get a license for it or whatever.
Well, it's like the Ubuntu Restricted Extras package. When you install that, you have to do,
I know you at least have to accept the license for the Microsoft true font type fonts.
And I can't accept that on behalf of the person who is getting the computer, that's illegal.
That's like me signing their mortgage on behalf of them. I can't do that. And so I don't.
And what I've done in the past is taken the made a, it's been easier now. I make a link now,
but I used to put the Deb for the Ubuntu Restricted Extras package on the desktop.
It would say, okay, so all the things that you really want that I can't give you are in this package,
all you have to do is double click, authenticate, and it will just do its thing. And I would explain
to them, I can't double click that for you, because you have to agree to an end user agreement,
and me not being the end user is disingenuous. And it's a moral stance I took,
because I, you know, I don't feel that I should ever speak for anyone else other than myself.
Right, yeah. I mean, yes, to do with that as well, the license is, and you have to agree,
or you meant to agree, but if you use, but you know, somebody might change the, change the
distro and remaster it and install whatever and give it to someone. But yes, to do with the,
but yeah, I mean, but many other people don't really, don't really be software licensing anyway,
but yeah, they should be at least skimming or whatever, you know, they should be knowing what
they get themselves into, and if they press the SAP, they should be doing it themselves,
buzzes down, you basically doing it for them. I think I, I think that's what we were saying,
and I pretty much agree to that. Yeah, and it's getting easier to do. I mean, you can,
you can, you know, work all the packages, you know, all the non-free packages together into a thing,
and, you know, into one script and say, oh, here's the script that makes all the magic things
that you want to do happen, but I can't do that for you. You can run the script, but I can't do it
for you. Yeah, you can have the script there and then click on the script if you want to do it.
Fedora has this really cool thing called, but Fedora doesn't, a separate entity created a thing for
Fedora. It's called Easy Life, and it's, it's a, it's a script that, you know, you, you run this
application, and there's a checkbox, just a list of checkboxes. You know, what are the things you
want? You click Flash, and you click this, and you click that, and you click that, and you click that,
and you click that. And it says, okay, cool, I'll do that for you, but it's, it's user prompted.
The user decided to do this. If they don't read the license, it's on them, not Easy Life,
it's not on Fedora, it's not on the person who gave them the computer. And so, you know,
software freedom is very important to me, but so is freedom of choice. But those people have to
make a choice. They can't just have a choice to thrust upon them. Yeah, and it's to do it.
Fed, that goes back to another question, then. I'm just thinking I'm going to word it. Yeah,
or, I mean, some people have the idea, kind of, that if you are going to give somebody,
you know, something from Windows, not very technical, you want to give them a distribution. And
if it doesn't run, if it doesn't run, it could be the code, it could be Skype, it could be Netflix,
it could be, maybe even Photoshop in some cases, you know, also some Windows software, whatever it is.
But I'm throwing more to kind of like codecs, like Flash and Flash, and MP3, and Possibly Skype.
If you give them a distro by default, which doesn't have any of that set up, which I believe is pretty much
all distro is by default anyway. But if you give them that by default, some people will,
I mean, I mean, thinking, some people are going to see Linux as being kind of a bad thing,
because of that not being there, but I think you said earlier, then they won't make very, very
sweet switch. Actually, if you can kind of sub the added in there. Well, and those people are not
thinking about when they first got their Windows computer. Not all Windows computers come with Skype
installed. Very few actually do. They all come with a link that you can install Skype. But it's not
an actual, you know, the binary is not actually sitting there running. Most systems come with Flash
because the vendors have a deal with. But if you install an OEM copy of Windows, all you get is
Windows. All the rest of that stuff was put there by the manufacturer. And, you know, you weren't
given a choice. And I, you know, and yeah, really the, what it comes down to is people don't
actually understand how computers work or how they're configured. They don't understand. It's a
magic box that shows them naked pictures of people and lets them talk to their kids. And
a Linux box can be the exact same thing. But there's a step in there where they have to make
a choice. They have to choose to install Skype. They have to, they have to choose to install the
Codex. And it's not that hard. And, you know, again, with things like the open to restricted
extras package, you go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you, you needed that. It just go ahead and think
on the desk. But it cannot, but that I think. Yeah, I mean, it's just, people are disingenuous about
the problems in Linux a lot of times. Some people are legit. Like there are serious problems.
You know, there is hardware that's not recognized. It's whether or not your printer works as a
crapshoot, things like that. But the little nitpick is them being disingenuous. They, they've had
their computer for four years. They don't remember what it was like when they couldn't have the box.
Yeah, that's true. What do you, actually, what do you think in general to the whole idea,
actually, of, you know, you get getting all this, well, it's more of Windows, I guess, but
okay, so Windows, like we were talking about getting all this kind of pre-installed stuff
by the, by the OEM, although it's going to play across the phones as well, because like,
you know, you've got a Samsung Android phone for a sample and you've got your Samsung Ving or HTC,
you've got your HTC thing, it's not pure Android. Do you, I mean, do you inject, do you, in general,
for both, for both things, a computer with Windows or a phone with Android,
do you, in general, kind of think, I mean, do you see the kind of reasons to have any reason to
kind of have something from the managed hack to pre-installed for an average user, or do you
think that actually maybe it would be better to just give them the pure experience, the default
experience, no, no, no, no additional software. And I'm, I'm talking about both here,
the Windows PC example and the Android phone as well. Do you think it's better to give them pure
stock, what you get by default, nothing's been changed by any manufacturer, or you think it's
good possibly to put in some additional software, or whatever it is, branding, or whatever it is.
It's, I'm of two minds. There are people who love the fact that their computer comes with a
whole bunch of stuff for them to play with. At the same time that makes things incredibly difficult,
because they're experienced from machine to machine, then changes. And when you talk to regular
people, they always go, oh god, it'll take forever to get my new computer set up the way my old one
was. And for a lot of them, it's those little things that were installed by default that they now,
either one can't find, because they have no idea what it was actually called, or,
I lost you there. Sorry. The, the, they, they either can't get the software that was on there,
because they have no idea what it was called, or they can't, you know, you can't get that software
outside of the bundle. It just doesn't exist that way. There's no way to purchase it. And so,
a lot of people's frustrations with new computers is the thing they love and the thing we hate.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Really, the computer industry itself is its own worst nightmare, because the computer industry
creates problems and then tries to sell solutions to it. And it's just, it doesn't work and it
hasn't been working. And you hear the dogs in the background, though.
No, I don't hear any dogs at all. Maybe my head says, sometimes you can,
sometimes they pick up the background always, but obviously not this.
I'm actually surprised I have four dogs, so usually when I hear dogs, it's a fairly normal occurrence.
For us, that's me also, because I talk about what was there. Oh,
my mind's gone blank. All my bills do it. I mean, do it windows and,
I did the Android phone thing. What about Android phone? It's like the same thing as a computer.
I would do you think you think it's okay for Samsung to put their own thing in and things
like that? Or do you think it's better for people? I mean, a lot of people who are polishing
to this, or who might be listening to us talking later on, depending on what happens.
Polly, people who use the Nexus 7 or whatever is the stock Android tablet and phones and that,
and don't want to have the additional whatever from the manufacturers. Do you think,
do you think it's a bit different there from a computer that you let it's okay to have in
and have some of this stuff in the phone? Or do you think it's the same situation as a computer
where really you're just getting stuff that is really needed most of the time?
And there's not much point having that really, except for the company's right money possibly.
I mean, it's the same situation. You have this thing that runs perfectly well on its own,
that companies are then adding to, or they're just, even if they're not adding to it,
you buy a phone from a company and it comes with a bunch of pre-installed apps.
And, you know, they're like, oh, you couldn't possibly live without these.
And the only problem is, is, you know, so someone buys their first Android phone.
And they get it to the point where they like it. They buy the next one, and let's say in the
meantime, they've switched carriers, or they went from HTC to Samsung. And now the whole thing is
different. For no other reason than two companies did two different things to an underlying operating
system. Yeah. What do you think about the, like, people going from Windows, because it's being
slow or whatever, to, you know, at least use Windows as the main computer and, you know,
for the email and the list and that. But then it got slow because it got, you know,
because the virus is on one of the reasons, oh, it has been disturbed, or whatever the reason,
you know. And they've got to this Android phone, or maybe a tablet, if they got that one,
iPad, or, what do you think people who kind of just, like, kind of dump their computer?
Because it got slow, you don't really know why, and they're not really interested enough to find
out, and they just sort of think, you know what, I've got this other device that runs Android,
or whatever it is. And I can do my email there, and my basic computer's asset,
needing a computer, really. So I just use my Android phone. Do you think, I think that's happening
a lot now, actually, because, you know, phones and tablets and so on, a lot more popular than
used to be. And now we're getting these articles actually saying, like, I was a laptop getting,
I think, not going to get sold anymore, as a desktop, not going to get sold anymore.
But what, I mean, do you have an opinion about this at all?
In general, I wish the technology press would find a great big hole and leap into it,
because they take things that are already a complicated situation and make them worse.
But to the actual question that was asked, phones and tablets aren't computers.
Functionally, a lot of times, they are very close, but they're not. And for an average user,
for like a, you know, and I hate to use this generalization, but someone's mom or dad,
or their grandma or their, you know, whatever, you know, it can be perfectly fine for them,
because they weren't really doing anything with their computer anyway. But people that try to
do their jobs from tablets often drive me nuts, because they spend twice as much time
trying to figure out how to do something, then just doing the damn thing anyway.
Well, I guess so, but they made a switch to do that, because of the issues with computer or whatever.
And that's kind of bringing up another subject actually, like operating system subject,
because on the phone runs, Android, people who are into this stuff,
might not actually know what it actually runs, but, you know, phone runs Android or iOS,
or whatever, and the tablet can run that, and then you can then a Kindle run whatever,
and you know, so it goes on. So they are, you know, they are, they are experiencing different
operating systems, but maybe even the satellite box or something like that, but, you know,
they are experiencing different operating systems, but they are experiencing them on these
different devices. So, in a way, you might think like, oh, but they are experiencing different
operating systems, these are some devices, so fully making the switch on the computer to say
that it's a distribution wouldn't actually be as difficult as it would have been, but that's not,
you know, it's still an issue. And what I'm trying to say is, does, I'm just thinking,
I mean, why is it such a big jump to like switch operating system on the computer, even now,
for most people, when they're using different operating systems on all these other devices?
They don't realize that these other devices have operating systems is the issue.
They see their phone like they see a toaster. A toaster doesn't have an operating system. It has a
button you push and it makes toast. People see their computers the same way. You know, they buy
a computer, it has windows on it. They, for the longest time, no one knew that you could put
something else on them. And, you know, and now they, they're figuring that if, if there was
something else to put on them, someone would sell them that. And that's, I mean, that's really what
it is. They're like, well, can I just buy one of those? It's like, well, yeah, you can. I mean,
you can go to system 76 and buy a Linux laptop or whatever. But, I mean, it's for, for the average
person, they, it's not that they're adverse to Linux or they don't want to change. They don't
know there is a change to have. And once someone does show it to them, they're like,
they could take it or leave it because that's another thing. And they're like, I don't want to
mess with this thing that already kind of works, whatever. Yeah, yeah, there's that too. But,
kind of big of my point, I think, with a phone or something like that, it really is seen as a
device. It kind of just works. And, but with a computer, it's kind of known that, oh, you might
get embarrassed. So, when do you do anything? And it might be this issue and it might be that
issue. I think that's that, I think that's to do with it as well, because then the computer gets
the problems and then the other device just works. So, did you just make the switch to the other
device? Let's see, this is the problem is like 30 years ago, the computer industry told people,
hey, everyone will have a computer on their desk and it'll be this thing that just works.
And we've never made that a reality. And it's, you know, and it's not going to be a reality.
A computer is far too complicated of a thing for it to work 100% of the time, all the time with
no issues. Tablets and smartphones seem to be these kind of things because they're cheap
relatively and they're, they're, they were marketed as consumer products. These are things that,
when they break, you just throw them away. You know, I don't know how many people, you know,
have dropped a cell phone and been like, oh, God, this is crack. I need a new one. And I'm like,
why don't you just have somebody replace the screen? It's a hundred bucks. And it never registered
to them that this is a thing that can be worked on, that it can be maintained. And I, I've seen
people, you know, have issues with their tablets and they, you know, oh, you know, I started
it up and it doesn't start up all the way. So I'm just going to go get a new one. When it's like,
all you had to do is, you know, reflash the firmware, you know, you know, it was an Android tablet.
You know, it's like, you just take your version of Android and you flash it back on there. And
boom, it works again. But these were things that no one ever thought of because
the manufacturers of these devices are hoping that they never find out about this because they
want to keep making money. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Although, I was, now, yeah, I was also
saying this one. Apparently, I was asked all about how they were going to mocks off, we're
going to possibly start selling hype with computers with Windows 8.1 and Android as well.
And I think I was going to mention this earlier and then I think of a chance or something.
And that sounds kind of interesting because Windows 8, phone and Windows 8.1, it doesn't really sell
that well, I think, it was the reason as well. So I think this is a, doing this back by the
task anyway, it seems that they think that if they put Android on these computers that will
help sell Windows as well. What do you think sounds like this?
This was being bandied about several years ago also that there were going to be these,
you know, these, I think it was a, it was a netbook that you could pull the screen off of.
And so the netbook would run Windows and when you pulled the screen off of it, it would be an
Android tablet. And it was never, well, yeah, it was that as well. Yeah, we're going to show
me a computer, a machine-made electronic show in January, according to the articles, say.
But yeah, it was that as well now that you can have, like, you kind of pull the thing off
and you get your keyboard and you get your touch screen and it can kind of change between
a computer and a tablet and somebody had one of these computers recently, I think, and yeah.
I don't see Microsoft being cool with that at all. There may be certain manufacturers that do it,
but I think Microsoft will bully them into not ever actually releasing these products
because Microsoft has a mobile operating system. You know, they have, you know, the,
you know, Windows 8 for tablets and for fun.
Actually, according to this article I read, it was on, um,
oh, it's tautic, whatever it's called, but, um, I think it, it is a safe swing about how they were going to actually,
stop selling Windows RT as well because it hasn't really worked out. So, I think this is like,
instead of Windows RT. I really don't see them doing it. One, because Microsoft doesn't move that
fast. Microsoft is a very, very large ship. And it takes a long time to turn it.
You know, the Windows 8 interface is almost a perfect knockoff of GNOME 3.
And, you know, and GNOME Shell has been around, you know,
about five, six years at this point. Yeah. So, no, no, no, no, no, GNOME Shell is
five, six years and GNOME 3, you mean, no, that's been around, um,
since I think it was April 2011 when the first release came out. It's been the development
for longer in the development previews and things like that. But the actual final release was
April 2011, I believe. Ah, well, I was using the pre-release versions. So, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've used the pre-release in Mandriva 2010.2 series or whatever, and I've, you know, really liked that.
And annoyingly, actually, for a while, that was even when this GNOME 3.0, like, you know,
popcorn came out. For whatever reasons, I can't quite remember why. I think it's still with
a graphics card, yeah. I couldn't just run GNOME 3.0 as much as I wanted to run it. I couldn't run
it because there was a computer I was using, there was issues. And so, the closest thing I had was
that old GNOME 3P that I really liked, that I was running on top of GNOME 2, and then later on,
I got to actually try GNOME 3 out. It was then 2012. I think at the Open 2 stand,
I was on a touch screen, and I thought, like, you know, what, I thought, ah, it's amazing on a touch screen.
Now, that's something else. Apparently, some people think, oh, it's from mobile phones,
in with Unity, but I think GNOME shell is aimed at the mobile phone market and all that,
but apparently, no, it wasn't. It was aimed at the desktops, so it's not really aimed for touch.
That's a little side point I wanted to make. And then, later on, around, I think it was,
no, actually, yeah. I waited until my tier 2 went think before I got to run GNOME shell
properly, because I tried out certain for doorwork previews, and so on, and development, and
things like that, and discs off GNOME, and no issues, you know. And so, I actually had to wait
until GNOME 3.4. Before I was properly started, I was able to run GNOME, and it was a bit annoying,
because I was really interested in wanting to try out the new interface, earlier on, and properly,
and then I had these issues, I can't wait. But we had the GNOME preview, and I remember when I had this
guy over do, like, for my talk, that I did, I mentioned in 2012, and things like that,
and I showed him this GNOME preview, and he was quite into GNOME, and he was sort of saying,
oh, you know, that's not very good, or time moved on since that, and I think I had to get,
and I had to get used to the actual GNOME shell final a bit, because of being obviously different
from this preview, but yeah, I'm a GNOME 3 user by choice normally, but in a distro now,
actually, it's seen as being a KD distribution by many, even though GNOME is there as well,
and it's quite supported, and so that's kind of interesting as well, because I'm like running
a GNOME 3 in a distro, which is seen as a KD distro by a lot of people, even though GNOME supported,
and GNOME is going to always be, or for now, is always going to be slightly behind, because if
this one being on 9 month release cycle, where it's GNOME being on a 6 month release cycle,
so then quite fitting together, that was one nice thing about Ubuntu when I used to run it,
because it would be so close to the GNOME 2 release cycle that, you know, you'd always get a
GNOME as you upgraded. He's lit. Yep, I forgot what our point was. I don't know, we just turn
about different things, and then we'll go off with them. I'm thinking of putting lists out as well.
It's been like four hours now, isn't it, or something. He's going to be pissed.
Yeah, but they're not going to release it all in one go. They might just, oh, we need a podcast.
Let's put this up. I don't know, what have they going to do anyway. Let's put up eight hours of
after show. When are you planning on going off forever? I have no plan. I woke up earlier than
I planned to today, so I've got like seven hours that are open. Yeah, I'm a bit like that as well,
but seven hours after show. Oh, I don't know if we'll do seven hours. I mean, we could always
convince someone to stop the recording and bullshit later or something or whatever.
Oh, they can, I don't know. Oh, there's a bother releasing this.
Or they can cut this out and make it its own episode.
Yeah, although, although, although, when I podcasted the first time, I went on tech bikes,
and you know, who had this guy before? Voice says to it.
Yeah, tech bikes. No, tech bikes. He has a tech bike. So, tech bikes, does that mean anything to you?
I think I've heard of it. Oh, the old name bike cut novel. Yeah.
That means even less. No, no, yeah. Well, he does these blog posts that are a bit
of a hothi word con that I've lost the words con, see something that, you know, that get that,
I've not always heard people a bit. That's part of that way, depending on what he puts out.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Controversial. That's the word, isn't it? Controversial.
And, yeah, you know, he knows certain people with these blog posts, but that's what he does.
And, at times anyway, and he has podcasts and tech bikes with the other guy. And,
I know what it is, yes, and then I'm really podcasting, and then I, so I did an episode, I went on
on with him one night in September. It isn't, it's still out there in September 2011, and I
thought, you know, okay, he's going to end on podcasting. Where to do it over Skype, which was a bit
sound quality, was a bit bad at times as you respect. But, you know, I went on this podcast, and I
think he was only in about an hour or two, and put the music in, and you know, release it as a
podcast. And so first bit, this is all before I joined any of my geoteams and so on, it's like
me deciding like, well, you know, I'm into this, I think I am, but I'm not going to do any
teams or ever yet. And so I just basically did a podcast about, oh, it was very general, it was
about distro, it was GNOME, KDE, identity car, you know, loads of stuff, and it's like an opinion
podcast and stuff. And got first bit was, went around different subjects, and it's quite a good
podcast. And got through about halfway, and he's like, right, we're going to have a break,
and it's kind of like, oh, we've got so much left. And then you kind of wanted to close the show
off, but I thought, you know, I'm kind of like warmed up now, I'm used to this podcast thing,
I'm not going to be on here for a while again. So I just, we just kind of like chatted for another
hour, and now in a bit, make that. And the podcast ended up being over three hours of chat,
and music I'll put in later on, and kind of said to me at the end, do you want to cut this out,
or do you want to release it? And I was like, you know, no, yeah, I want to release it, I want
to release the whole thing. Okay, spit long at three hours, isn't it? But, you know, I've got
released, and the thing is with the podcast, you can pause it, and so on. So it's not that big a deal,
really, is it a long podcast? Yeah, when I was doing Linux cranks, we used to do shows that were,
you know, six, seven hours long, because, you know, it was a show as long as someone was talking,
and we tended to do it late at night, so people would get hammered drunk too. So that was always fun.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what kind of mean for here, but
seven hours over. I should do a bit more podcasting again, really. I just wanted to say I hadn't
done any since the last year show, because I've been, you know, other things and so on, you know,
and public speaking a bit here and there and whatever, but you kind of sort of forget,
or you can't start to kind of forget, well, you know, actually podcasting is quite fun, because,
you know, you just talk about whatever and get your opinions out and so on, and you kind of forget,
or you might sort of forget, if you're not doing it for a while, you know.
Yeah, I used to do a lot of podcasting, but I keep swearing, I mean, I get back to it, and I never do.
Although Fistle Web was looking for guests on the crib, and they've been on that as well,
with one of our main magia contributors, and I met him twice, because I paused him,
that he does like, he putt system D in the distro, and Pulse Aldi, and he contributes upstream,
and then he's got his other interest too, and he's like, he's a great guy. And we did a crib in
them, so it's a magia special, oh, I must be, yeah, I must be, yeah, the 2012 now, yeah, time
gives on, doesn't it? And so did that with Fistle Web, and the cabbie, the co-host, and that was
good as well. But Fistle Web was saying he was going to have like, he wanted to have a hundred
episodes, or everything, of his podcast, in like February, so Pulse Aldi on that as well,
like it, he wants to look around table, of different speakers, different people,
and the guy wants to stop and restart recording,
and in the top. Yeah, I say we don't let him do it. What, what, you want to finish?
Oh, with K-Wisher, I just want to make his life miserable.
Oh, you mean because they want to play in like trial episodes, or they're going to do,
what do you mean? I've known K-Wisher for a while, I'm just trying to cost trouble.
K-Wisher, come, are you going to chat kind of where this is too in the way at the end, but oh well.
K-Wisher, Ron, should come on here and make a stop.
Free for, free for, he wants to go on another 12 hours, I don't know how, I don't know how,
how H-H-H-R is going to deal with that. In fact, no, we're going to do another 26 that has
going to be longer than the actual thing, so I don't know how H-H-R is going to handle that.
We're just going to take over the whole thing. We're going to get K-Kin falling out,
we're just going to, just me and you the whole way. Thelma's wheelie style, she's going to
ride off into the sunset. Yeah, I'm not really doing much today, that's your list.
Did you have plans for later, is that what you said? I tried to plan very little,
my life is so planned at this point that I don't, I don't want to make plans for anything.
Yeah, yeah, I can only be like that as well if I can general.
There's a kind of growing problem with people involved in the technology sphere that
we cram our lives so full of things that we have to actually schedule time to not have a scheduled
time. I mean, I've had to schedule time to drink beer with my friends, and that's sad.
I don't really have that issue, but yeah, I don't know what you mean.
Enjoy it while you can, because it may sneak back up on you.
I think, have you been, when did you wake up? Oh, you actually wake up early, didn't you?
Yeah, I was behind as well, aren't you? I was, I was rudely awakened by you people at like seven
o'clock. I fell asleep with the stream on. So, so God knows what's been crammed down into by
subconscious now. I call me, I plan to actually listen to the podcast, when it's released,
like the whole thing or nearly. I was, although I was saying I was going to do that last year,
and then I got for you a few of those episodes, and then it's like, well, in this toilet,
it's still out there somewhere there. It will always be out there. So, I think it's all
on archive.org, so it may always be there. Yeah, well, it'll be around for a while, yeah.
As much as I dislike the wage system and, you know, things like that, I would love to
become rich for no other reason than to give the guy that runs archive.org a heap of cash.
I wonder if anyone's actually going to like listen to, well, this particular bit of the podcast.
This particular bit, I hope not. I hope people have far better things to do with their life
than to listen to me ramble on. Or this particular bit. If you're listening to me, stop,
find a partner of any type. Please have sex. Hello? Can you hear me? Ah, he's on. That's cool.
Ah. Thought if I called you out, you might show up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you got him to come,
did you? I'll call him out. Ah, I just, I've been recording for like 10, it's coming
come on. I'm telling you, I'm recording now. I didn't look like it. Well, I got another bot,
the, uh, Z record bot. Yeah, I'm like nearly four hours of math to stuff. Yeah. Um, but anyway,
I've been recording since I went to bed last night. So I got like 10 hours going right now. I'd
like to stuff that and start again at the top of the hour just to get, so I can get
in the file. You know, you don't have restart at the top of the hour. You can just let all of this
die. That's true. Yeah, but they didn't want to, they won't actually release it, I think, because
that's the whole point isn't of, of HBO. I think there were about maybe 20 or 30 minutes there
that were really good in like the last bit of this. Yeah, a lot of that should probably just die.
Well, I'll leave that up to Ken. No, well, I can believe so. I'll, I'll, as well.
Free hours, which we're kind of joking about now. Ken just wants all of it so that he can take
individual words and piece them together and make us say things and then blackmail us.
Yeah. Well, he is the evil overlord. Maybe, maybe it should go on longer next
year or next summer. We really kind of do that anyway with the people who want to stay at the end.
30 seconds. Good night, Gracie. Good night, John Boy.
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