Episode: 1156
Title: HPR1156: 2012-2013 Hacker Public Radio New Year Show Part 6
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1156/hpr1156.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-17 20:31:59

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What are you drinking this over there? Not that Apple stuff.
Yeah, I'm a big Apple fan at this point. When I first turned up tonight, I was at 10.30
p.m. Seriously, I was on the coffee at that point. I had not touched a drop of booze at all.
My first booze, my first glass of cider was when I mentioned in the chat, right? I'm going to
talk up for the first time. That genuinely was. I mean, believe it or not, that was my first.
So, yeah, I've been on the cider since then. Well, this will have that effect on you.
They will do, yes, and you don't quit even that, yes. Anywho, we were saying,
mentioning about harm radius, which I personally have more interest in, but it's fascinating, nonetheless.
Hey, door made it back. Hey, guys. Hey, door. Hey, door.
Whoa, red dwarf, your mic is hot. I'm actually standing out front of Ruth Chris waiting
for my car to come back and my wife's inside, because it's too cold. You lucky dog.
Yeah, happy anniversary. Ruth Chris. Oh, that's a nice place. Happy anniversary, man.
Thank you very much, guys. I'll try to be on here in like two hours or so.
Cool. That's the boat right there. Some of us will spill this over. Speak to yourself.
Yeah, it was good to see you speak here. So, unfortunately, I'm on call. So,
no, nothing like that tonight. Well, I'll still be sober. I haven't got enough beers left to get drunk.
Yeah, I got up to go look. I think I've got just four planning. I think I've got some
bourbon and stuff. I still got leftovers from OLLF. No, it was actually good planning,
because if I'd have gone out and got enough to get drunk, I'd be sobering up halfway into the morning
and really be hurting or I'd have to knock off and fall asleep, which would just be almost as bad.
Yeah, that was exactly why I never got drunk earlier on. That was why I turned up at like 10-30
UK time. Still stone gold sober, just about to start drunken and people saying, oh no, I got
bullshit in that. He's been drunken. But honestly, no. Seriously, I've just finished my coffee.
I was like, you may not believe it, but it's true. I'm not drunk. I'm Scottish.
That's what he's used for it a lot. Oh, I got to turn off box.
Do your neighbors buy that one when you're stumbling home? Do your neighbors sound drunk too?
Aye. I'm sick, yay. Oh, sorry, that was awesome. You just did a Scottish accent of a Scottish accent,
that was good. Yeah, I do that. It's very meta. You know, meta bust ups, you know.
That's like when fab tries to pretend he has a German accent.
No, it's an Indian accent. We all know that. You know, there's a reason they think all the
Scots are drunk. You got to be drunk to wear a dress like that. Oh, I was going to suggest
because where there's smoke, there's fire. I'm looking at the fender. I love them. They say,
August is rather nice. I have some August that I need to eat, actually. I love the stuff.
See, you've got to be drunk to go for that, too.
Honestly, August is actually quite nice. I mean, as long as you can sort of put to the back,
you'd mind the fight to just a sheep's stock. I guess it's actually really nice to be fair.
I guess that's really nice. It's bizarre to be fair. It's probably not all that bad. I can't
stand the texture. I would try it in a minute. There's even something. Yeah, I tried as well.
I just never been around it. I've had August. It's not bad. But then I'll try anything twice.
They follow it up with some, they follow it up with some Rocky Mountain oysters.
Those are all like goodness. Those I draw a line man. I draw a line man. Yeah, Rocky Mountain oysters
are really good. I'm sure they are, but I wouldn't need them on a dare.
What is it? What is it? What is it? It's a family show. It's testicles of an animal.
Bull balls. You when they castrate a bowl and turn them into an ox, the rock non-noisers are the
testicles. I think of sheep, too, right? They're deep fried. Wow. That doesn't help. 51.50. Yeah,
he said he pan-price. You guys can mock it all you want. They're damn good. I imagine they are.
I've never had a chance to try them. I'm not mocking personally. I'm just revolted.
What's the texture? Are they just meaty? Are they chewy? What are they like?
Comparably compared to something else. I would imagine that they're not meaty. It would be my
guess because meat is muscle mass and organs are usually nothing like the muscle. I've heard
it taste like tin or lime. Have you ever had sweet bread? Let me add a chewy.
Has anybody ever had sweet bread? Oh, yeah. Boat and cream.
Well, it tastes a lot like sweet bread. It's just then deep fried.
Oh, okay. It's really not a family show.
I had high hopes. Now, he was full of it. This show is, well, it's gone family a couple times
and people brought their kids on, but yeah, pretty much we, you know, it's HPR. You say what you want.
Well, it was last year that we brought up that they were always swearing on HPR. You don't censor anything.
Yeah, freedom of fucking speech. I can't believe you. That juvenile that the testicles of a bowl
gets us at the X-ray. Yeah, a bollocks to that. Tell you. Yeah, they're bollocks.
I think it's time I went to bed. Or is the exescent in IRC deep fried nuts?
You're going to bed to dream of Rocky Mountain oysters. They're a puppy.
I think so, yes. Yeah. That's probably a lot. Terrible image, man.
To cool kung po. That's a lot of nuts. Yeah, I think I'd give, I think I'd have waited a few minutes
to drop out at a different spot. But before you go, we'll say happy new year and good night to you
and we'll say happy new year to Argentina, Paraguay, and Chile.
Nicely done. Good night and happy new year, everyone.
Good night, everybody. Happy new year.
Yeah, and thanks for coming, man. Thanks for helping us out.
No problem. You guys are reminded me of the old joke,
about the bull testicles they used to do with the bull ring in Spain.
They came from the results of the bull ring and every once in a while, they'd come
not so big in median juicy. They were scrawny little things.
The waiter, of course, says, well, sometimes the bull wins.
Nice. All right, I'm going to do all blanks, I
should old acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind.
Should old acquaintance be forgot and all days of all the blanks?
Bravo. Very nice. QF.
I was hoping he'd go the next verse where it gets even higher.
Nope. Not unless I make Rocky Mountain oysters out of myself.
Yeah, I was really jumping on the bull fighting thing.
Pinar was a wee boy. We went to Spain. Mom and dad went to Spain and obviously the family
hall they and we went to see a bullfight in Madrid and I could not stand it. I hated it.
Watch the watching a bullfight in the flesh. Watching these poor animals. I hated it. I
absolutely hated it. It was one of these things. It was like a blood sport to me.
Somehow me like nine years old or something recognized it was a blood sport and I was just
horrified by this thing. Watching this thing in the flesh. The point where I was actually
so upset that they spent, actually in hindsight, I feel sorry for them because they spent
a fortune to take the whole family to bullfight and they spent most of the night in a quiet
sort of a cafe outside the arena because I couldn't watch the bullfight but to leave early because
of me. But no, the bullfighting is absolutely horrendous in person. When you see it in the flesh,
it's horrendous. I'm pretty sensitive to the ethical treatment of animals. I have slaughtered
animals and I think it's a matter of respect to not drag it out. Yeah, that's not slaughter.
That's playing with it. It's cruel. Yeah, it's basically. It was the cruelty element. I think
that's what my brain picked up on. Even it like nine or eight years old or whatever,
older was at the time. That's what I picked up on and I couldn't watch it. I really couldn't
watch it because it was horrifying to me. You think that's bad? Try a rodeo.
As a guy who's been out hunting a couple times. I don't really consider myself a hunter yet
but I'm trying to be. I'll totally agree with that. You do not want to drag that out. It's
disrespectful and it's cruel. As cruel as the bullfighting seems at first glance, if you look into
it and look at the details, it's so much worse than you think it is. As I say, a rodeo is the same way.
It's just tortured a lot of these animals. Ridiculous.
Yeah, it's a rodeo. They don't kill them afterwards. Yeah, I get the fact that killing animals,
in some cases, that is like a control of resources and I get that. I get the fact that
killing animals for food or thing. I get that. I understand that but for sport, torturing these
put animals as sport, that's where I drive the lane personally. There's just really a point
where you have to look at it and just say, you know, it may not have the same consciousness but
it just ain't right. Absolutely. Sorry, I didn't want to bring the conversation down. That was my
problem. Any one time at Bond girl. Well, this is one of the few places where you can have a
conversation like that. Unfortunately, cultures are not only desensitized but they're sensitized against
being, you know, against even noting the desensitization of others. This is an interesting conversation,
I think actually. Yeah, but would you say the running of the bulls is kind of payback?
Payback for war. No, of course not. They don't put the bullfighters out in front of the bulls.
They are staying here until he's done with you. No, that's not payback.
I think he's talking about the people who get trampled. It's just a whole lot of stupid. That's what that is.
Yeah, it is. Right, I am too. The people who are getting trampled are not the bullfighters.
The mad about it. It's the people that try to be macho about it.
Drunk teenagers. Well, hell, who can really disagree with them being trampled?
Yeah, now there's there's some thing you see every year. I think it could be in Valencia,
in Spain, in Valencia, in Spain, where the bull run. We've got all these bills running through
the street and you hear occasionally in the news or such and such and people go out to go
by the bull. That serves you fucking right for jumping in front of the bulls. That's what you're
there. That's that's all buzz of the thing. You can't blame your front of the bull. Yeah,
you can't blame the bull. You know, you're you're channeling the bulls down this path and you're
jumping in front of the bulls front your own kicks. I don't give a shit whether you get bored with
the bulls. If you lose your leg through that, so fucking what? You shouldn't be jumping in front
of the bastards. I used to live in Lantern and it's the same thing we get over there. You know,
everybody gets up in arms when they get kicked by a moose. The problem is they sneak up behind
the moose to get a picture and they wonder why they get kicked by a moose. And then they want to put
down. It's just like these people that taunt dogs and then get so upset when they get bit.
They should have the billboards advertising zoom lenses there so that people wouldn't have to
sneak up so close. Yeah, they say all of that I've only ever seen on like videos and the
portion times. I've actually seen, as I said, I've seen a bullfight with my own eyes and it is cruel.
It's absolutely cruel. So I can totally grok the the whole bull running and the whole
animal's for sport thing. I totally grok that because I've seen a bullfight with my own eyes and
it is horrendous. It really is. Well, it's like a lot of people say hunting is for sport. It's not
really so much sport as it is just something you can find to do to bring your food to yourself.
Yeah, turning an animal into food, that's a different thing altogether for me.
Something that has some value. I mean, I'm one of these people where if I can distinguish an animal
on the plate, I can't eat it. It's always got to be, I mean, chickens find as long as it's going to
not in the shape of a chicken sort of thing. And like a pig on the plate with the apple on its mouth
as long as it's not actually, I mean, I couldn't eat that, but I could eat the pork of the ham,
you know, because it's not actually just, I couldn't actually see the animal behind it.
You know, that's sort of where I am, which is possibly hypocritical. I don't know.
No, no, no, fun stuff, I think. It's like if you actually see the animal alive or you're dead or
even if you're just the animal itself, you may not want to eat that. No, I'd much prefer to see
the animal alive. And if I have a choice, I'd prefer to butcher it myself than try to, you know,
trust as to what's going on behind the scenes or where it came from. And yeah, I'd much prefer
that. And as far as, you know, hunting is a sport. The sport is in the hunt, not in the kill.
The kill is, you know, certainly the end game, but the sport is in being outdoors, learning,
you know, about your local environment and getting to learn, I mean, you know, like every little tree
and rock and hill and, you know, trying to put all of your learned knowledge and skills to use.
I mean, that's where the sport is, not so much in the kill. I mean, if that were all it was,
you just go to the target range. Rural exploration or exploration. And while we're at it,
let's kill something. Both, you know, as well as I do, there's a lot of people that do it for the
sport, the trophy. They leave the meat there. It's very, it's very commercialized.
And frankly, if you do that in Montana and actually leave the meat there, they will find you.
There are those guys, but they, yeah, they don't keep their hunting licenses for long.
No, they take the meat, but they just give it away. You know, I mean, it's, but they're there for the,
for the trophy. The trophy is one thing, but at least if the meat is getting used, that I can see
is fine. But people that, you know, just try to ditch it or get rid of it. It's like these people
that would hunt an elephant for the tusks alone. That's just ridiculous. Yeah, that's exactly,
that, that's exactly it. I mean, if the actual fabric of the contents of the animal are being
used for something, that's, that's understandable. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is
perfectly understandable. It's something I would accept. Like this is food. This is, you know,
that's fine. I get that, but when it's just sport, no, absolutely not. And I know I'm going to
talk my side of that. Now, there's also plenty of people who will donate the food to, or donate
to meet to a food bank. And similar, I can even see that the problem comes when they just try
to dispose of it or when they don't use it responsibly. But at the same time, there is still something
to be said for eliminating excess animals in the area. Yeah, I was, I was going to mention the
food bank thing too, because any animal that's taken not league, I won't even say illegally,
but not legally, because there are times when, you know, you shoot a turkey and you hit two or
something like that, but they don't, they'll take the animal that's not been, been taken legally,
and that'll go to a food bank. The same thing will happen. But if people poach, if they get caught
poaching, that animal goes to the food bank. You know, I feel like I really have to defend hunters
that the amount of abuse that goes on among hunters is extremely low. When you consider the
amount of abuses in a factory farm setting where, you know, animals are being treated
cruelly as a rule. Well, I said I was going to say, look at turkeys, a perfect example. I mean,
you don't have, look what they do to turkeys and chickens, what a animal up, they can't move
just so they can fatten them up for Thanksgiving or whatever. That's as cruel as both fighting, I would
say. You know, a hunter has the, the respect to face his animal that he's going to eat and, and
deal with the consequences and moral implications of that. And I think most hunters that I know
are, are more in tune with where their food comes from and have a respect for that animal,
than somebody who's never, ever had to take another animal's life, an animal's life for food.
And then just goes, gets a cheeseburger and it's a food-like product to them. It's not,
there's no process behind it. Yeah, I totally agree with that, you know, and the few
animals that I have killed, you know, I've butchered myself and I, I, it sounds weird to say because
it's, you know, me saying it was done it, saying it about myself, so it sounds self-serving. But
I think there's a certain amount of respect in butchering the animal yourself that you're,
you're just not going to get, you know, any other way. Yeah, I think if, well, less, if people are
at a busy, you know, kill their own animal that they're going to eat or a fish or even a fish,
just even a fish, you know, that, that, that, some people, that could be enough to make,
I'm not going to eat that now, because I can think of myself when I went fishing a long time,
when he, oh, quite a long time ago now and, you know, he caught a fish and then it's like,
I was a kid and it's like, right, you're going to, you're going to eat this fish now kind of thing,
or you're supposed to eat curds and it's like, I thought, I can't eat this fish. I,
I saw it alive. I thought when it was alive and stuff, so yeah, I can do that.
You know, I've never taken delight in taking an animal's life, but, you know, to be disconnected
from it and to go to McDonald's or, or, or even, you know, people think if they go and get a salad
that has chicken on it, that somehow that's, you know, that's healthy, good food,
you're so disconnected from the life of that chicken, you know, that chicken may have never
even been able to walk. They're genetically bred to have a breast so large that they can't even
get up in the cage that they're in. And, and yet, you think you're somehow, because someone else
took that chicken's life, that it's a justified thing. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, a lot of people,
they kind of think up, but it's fine you can eat meat and no problem, whatever. And, and because,
well, if they're, somebody else killed it, like you say, and, you know, it's being sold. And,
yeah, they've had to kill it themselves, like I was saying, then they would possibly be put off
eating it. Well, you hear sometimes about, I think it's Japan or somewhere like that, where people
go off to a restaurant and they're like, um, but I wouldn't have a fish, I wouldn't have
whatever it is. And so they come out with the animal and they're like, okay, so which ones you want
when it's alive and then people get put off for eating that. I, um, I think it would kind of be
easy to say nothing here and, um, kind of sound like, uh, you know, I thought it was better than
other people. I don't think I'm better than anyone because I've killed my own animal or butchered
my own animal. I just think I have a, a respect for them that I never had before.
You know, I think it's a, I feel that the reason factory farms create the cruel environments that
they do, that they do is how far disconnected people are from that food that I agree with that
100%. You know, hunting as a, as a rule is, when you look at the overall economic impact of
hunting that these deer's, we don't want, uh, predators. We don't want a bunch of mountain lion
and a bunch of wolves and a bunch of coyotes taking these animals down. So they're going to breed
and their populations are going to increase. And you have to have pressure and, uh, hunters pay
willingly and subsidize a lot of other, um, hello, you back down. So yes, we can, we can hear you
SMLR. But just barely. Yeah, you're pretty low. Yeah, you need to bring it up a little bit.
Well, you're similar to a few others I've heard. Yeah, sorry about that. We're uh,
going to a little bit of testing. I, I need to find where the, the touch to speak is hold on. I'm sorry.
Anyways, I, I was just a quick point. I don't want to dry, I don't want to, you know,
be to, be to death horses. Oh, that's hard. It wasn't intentional. But, uh, just that,
it's the first time I left there. Probably not something we should be laughing at. But, you know,
the, the revenue brought in by, uh, the division of wildlife for fishing and game provides a lot
of, uh, funds for conservation efforts inside of state parks. And, uh, you know, there is, it is a
truly, um, give and take relationship with the hunters. You know, I don't know a lot. They,
they only give out enough tags to take the animals to keep the populations under control.
It's much more respectful of these animals than people give a credit. Yeah, it's the conservation
part of it. I was always amazed that the huge differences between, say, animal over animal rights
versus conservationists versus naturalists. All three are very different.
Oh, I don't know. I can't speak to any of those. Uh, well, I think you mean just the different
methodologies there. Well, you look at an animal lumber lover, say, is don't kill bambi.
A conservationist is to regulate the tags for the, for hunters, things like that. And the natural,
the conservationist says don't kill bambi till he's got antlers. Yeah, there you go. But the natural,
that's what introduced the natural predators thing. I thought the naturalists just ran around naked.
Ha, yeah. Naturalists tended right. Naturalists are more naturalists in theory than in practice.
They like to think things up. You're a naturalist till a bear is standing on your doorstep trying
to pound your door in. Yeah, here in Michigan, we have a, without the hunting, we would have a,
overpopulation deer. The, the other thing about naturalists, and I, I will say this,
most naturalists who I've speak into are, uh, probably completely uneducated as, as to nature.
They, they, what are naturalists, like people who go out and live in the woods, but don't really know
anything about it? No, the one who's point of view would, would, uh, say, if you want to, uh,
if you want the right deer population, and it doesn't take off, you would bring back the wolves that
are gone. Yeah, they'll want to meet your kid. Right. I mean, basically, the wolves have been
driven out, which made the deer population grow. And the naturalists would tell you to stay out of the
woods. They did that in Minnesota, didn't they? The brought back is actually introduced wolves back in
places. Yeah, the other thing was a wolf for, uh, uh, mountain lions. Maybe wolves. We've never
gotten rid of mountain lions. There's, well, there's mountain lions, but there's wolves in color.
I don't know too. Yeah, all of the predators are, are on the increase right now, including coyotes,
and the naturalists would say, well, let the coyotes be, you know, let, let them be where they are,
but coyotes are invasive species in most parts of the United States. They, they don't belong in
most of the places where they are. The same is true of, uh, Fisher cats, and, uh, one or two other
predators that I can't think of right now. The unfortunate thing is that when, when the predator
population gets out of control because the prey population has been properly managed, that you,
there is a much you can do with a predator carcass, you know, it's not edible meat. No, it's not.
Can't you take its force field and, and use it for camouflage? You can, but nobody, I mean, nobody
wears it themselves, uh, and people don't buy it anymore like they used to. It's force field?
It's pelt. I was, uh, I was making a predator joke. Oh, that predator. Nice.
Sorry, because I, I have no idea what you guys are talking about, so I'm just grasping at straws
here. No, no. You're a vegetarian, aren't you caught, too? I am. Do you hunt your own parsley?
Actually, no, but yes. I mean, there's, there's, there are gardens and stuff, but I don't, I don't
do it as much as I should, but I would lie. I, it's something that I want to do more of gardening.
He traps his own carrots, too. Those are slippery little buggers. You, you really got to sneak up
on them. Well, yeah, well, it's a reason why you're a vegetarian. All the reasons you can imagine,
like health, uh, moral reasons, uh, just everything. My sisters like that got to and, uh,
uh, and it, it's all literally, uh, yeah. Oh, and, and, and the, uh, I forgot to mention the,
the disdain for what you guys were talking about, like the, uh, you know, the, I forget what term
you were using that I really liked. The, what did you call the, the factory farms or something?
What were you, what did you call it? Yeah, factory farming. Yeah, factory, yeah, yeah, that,
that really repels me as well. Well, I'm 100% against factory farming.
Strangely is, I think most people are, but not most people are enough to take a stand against it.
You know, like, I mean, I, I think a lot of people will still just keep buying,
disgusting meat, you know, like instead of saying, uh, this really probably came from like,
horrendous conditions. I think I'll skip it this time. Well, I think there is a substantial,
uh, food movement that is favoring, uh, grass-finished beef, uh, grass-finished animals. You know,
I'm not a vegetarian and, uh, but I, I gather that. I do seek out, you know, we have local producers
here. We have a year-round farmers market where there's four different producers that are local
producers. They'll give you, you can look at pictures of the cow you're actually buying meat from.
It's been as, you know, that, it's had as good of a life as a cow is going to have, you know,
uh, you, we get into some, some interesting territory because they come out with some pretty
ridiculous study saying that it is, has a greater impact on the environment to raise cows in a
factory farm. And people think if you stopped eating meat, period, you would have a large impact
on global warming, but we're still growing crops with huge inputs from, um, from oil that are
having pretty devastating impact on our planet, not just in consumption of oil products of petroleum,
but in its overall effect, and that, that's not sustainable at all. So food in general is pretty
borched in the, in, in the world right now. I do know how, exactly how you feel, glad to,
my sister is, if it's red, it ain't dead. I think you cut out at the end of that bill,
was it? If it's red, what? Oh, if it's red, it ain't dead. I don't, I don't track that.
If it's red, it's not dead. She don't eat tomatoes, huh?
Hey, okay, I got a, I got a quick question that reminded me of something I meant to ask earlier,
especially when, uh, dude, man was around. I could have swore I heard on, on one of the
augcast shows, somebody said that, uh, like an egg, a hard boiled egg, and a tomato gives you
all the nutrition you need for a day. I looked, I tried googling that and I couldn't find anything
on it. Has anybody, like, heard that and know where does that come from? You know, I'm pretty,
you know, I'm pretty skeptical. I mean, other people can chime in if they have read it, but I,
I tend to be skeptical of any nutritionist kind of advice. You know, it's just like, I use
my common sense and I gauge how I feel at the end of the day, you know, and I think back of what
I ate and if I don't feel energetic and like, if I'm getting tired at like midnight instead of 2am,
you know, then I think, okay, I should have had more spinach today or whatever. I don't, I don't
listen to, I don't even, I'm not even sure if I believe that every person has the same requirements,
you know, or maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, I'm not a scientist, but that's just kind of how I feel
about it. And I know that every nutritionist advice I've ever read just comes across as like,
well, you have to count your calories and your grams of this and your grams of that. It just feels bogus
to me. Yeah, you've got through. I went to nutritionist and I'm, I'm, I'm kind of on the one
of you, but one of the first questions they asked me was, how long have you been this heavy and
what, what have your eating habits been like? And they said to me, it's not a, it's a eating change.
It's like a life change. If you want to lose weight, they can, they can give you ways to do it.
And a lot of it's just with the amount you eat, the portion you eat in the time.
I believe that, but I mean, you've seen me art. I mean, that's not my issue.
Oh, absolutely, but I mean, you eat healthy. I mean, you eat, you've driven a lot of coffee too,
but they say now coffee is not bad for you. I mean, you know, it's different every month.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's why I guess I don't believe it. So yeah, I guess what you're saying about
like, how much and what time you eat is, is a huge factor. I'm sure. Because like, yeah, I just,
I don't think they really know exactly everything that they say they know.
And that's like going with, like you said, about being tired. Well, maybe you,
you got up in the morning, you had coffee, you, you skipped a, you know, have something in the
morning, you didn't eat till lunchtime. And then you had a small dinner and all of a sudden,
now you're tired because you don't have any energy. Right, right. The big issue with nutrition is
that they're based, there's, there's no way to say what the results of a nutrition plan are
without doing a study. And as with all studies, a small sample set with a limited control,
in a limited, um, a data set gets the same credence as large long term studies do. And they
shouldn't, you know, every time somebody does a minor study on one aspect of eating an egg,
there's a study that comes out and it's given a credence and a headline that says that eggs are
now bad or eggs are now good. And it makes these sweeping assumptions and ignores something like
there was a cholesterol study done on eggs in Mexico that was over the course of 25 years with a
large sample set. And it showed that the cholesterol contained inside of eggs over the long term did
not have an overall impact on blood levels of the bad cholesterol. So, you know, these studies come
and then some research to do a minor study on some college kids and give them egg whites and they
say, uh, these guys felt like shit. So this is going to be the new study. And then there's a headline
that says, oh, age of ad fee now. Yeah, see what they did with me was they had me write down what I
ate every day for two weeks. And after that two weeks, I went back to the nutritionist and we
changed, again, changed habit, changed life habit. It wasn't a diet. It wasn't anything but a
life-eating change. Right. There's, I mean, if you're eating a huge amounts of carbohydrates,
very little fats, very little protein, you're going to be unhealthy. It's, that's not a diet,
it's not a diet to change is saying that you're eating a lot of something you probably shouldn't be.
Yeah. It's a lifestyle change. You know, diet means you're the lifestyle. And I got kind of
co-opted into a commercial buzz term that is attached to these kind of ridiculous crash courses
that people think are going to fix years of poor diet. So, Art, actually, I have a, what's going
to sound like a really rude question, but I don't mean it rude. Before the nutritionist like told
you, hey, you know, this, this, what you're eating here is not good for you. You know, you should
be eating more of this less of that. Did you not have like the, did, did you know that you were
not eating as well as you should, like, what I said earlier about common sense, that's like my
gauge of like what I should eat, but where does that common sense come from? So, did you have the
common sense of like, yes, I should be eating differently or did it literally take a nutritionist
to tell you that? No, it really literally just because I grew up, you know, I grew up in a large
household with a low, you know, not a low income, but a, you know, middle to low income.
We ate a lot of potatoes. We ate, you know, we ate a lot of starchy, tiller foods, bread,
potatoes, that kind of thing, which are okay for you, but it's moderation. Right. Sure.
Okay. Cool. That's interesting. Yeah. So, you did, you did have surprise.
Well, not a surprise because, I mean, it was kind of an understanding, so to say, I mean,
I knew vegetables were healthy for you, but I never realized like, you should eat four vegetables
and two to three fruits a day. I mean, we never grew up with that because we never had that.
Okay. So, I can think my mom pretty much. Exactly. I mean, if she ate, I mean, I had a friend of mine
I grew up with, and I can remember going to his house after school, and every day there was a
bowl of fruit on the table. And because his mom, like you said, like, to have fruits, she'd like
to eat fruit, and he would eat fruit every day after school. And I never did that. And I,
I've never just, you know, he'd like, you want a piece of fruit? No, I don't want that.
Darn, I was trying to blame my mom for all my life's problems, but it looks like she's helped.
How to find another scapegoat now. You know, anybody that grew up in the 1950s remembers what
meat, poultry, and dairy, or something like that, the combination, that's, that was totally biased
by particular industries. The three food groups, anybody remember that?
Yeah, the food pyramid. So the pyramid, that's still around, I don't know how it's actually
got a modified version of the food pyramid now. The food pyramid is fucking ridiculous.
Oh, yeah, whatever you said in years, I think. Yeah. Because that was the big one was dairy.
Dairy was just, you know, you just knew where that came from.
When I was a kid, they used to have, they used to run commercials on the TV and it was like a
little rhyme or song or something. And it was the three, two, four, four way. And it was supposed to be,
I think three, three, three breads or three dairies to, yeah, three dairies, two meats,
four fruits and four vegetables a day. And they said, they drilled that into us.
Even that's BS though, because, okay, what's three fruits?
Yeah, exactly. Three grapes, they're arbitrary numbers, it's ridiculous.
Now see, that's where, again, going back to the nutritionist, they would say to me,
if you take the palm of your hand and put potatoes or, or piece of chicken in the palm of your hand,
that's basically one serving, you know, broccoli, put it in your hand, that's one serving.
And I can say for a fact that it's not good. I mean, I would eat two or three times that amount
of potatoes when we had, like, chili, when my mom ate homemade chili.
Well, that's, I mean, that's great that they gave you that, that, that, that amount,
like that, that gauge to, to measure it by, because, like, the food pyramid and stuff like that,
they never tell you that. They're just like, yeah, just make sure you eat, you know,
three of these and four of these. It's like, what do you mean? Like, one bag of bread or,
or one slice of bread? Well, the bottom, the bottom of the pyramid, the original food pyramid
was all breads and grains. And it's, it kind of paints this picture that like, the top of the
pyramid is, is the stuff you should really avoid eating. And anything at the bottom, just go nuts.
That's not true. Yeah, but you got to remember back in those days, bread, a lot of bread was made,
homemade, my mom used to make bread all the time. So you had bread made with natural nut,
you know, the preservatives wasn't in the food, which is a lot different than today.
No, I, I agree, I agree with that. But bread is a luxury. And there is not an animal who consumes
that is designed to eat that amount of grain. The, the exact same thing that it does to the cows,
when you look at scientific studies that measure the amounts of saturated fats in a grass-finished
beef versus a factory grain-finished beef, the saturated fats go through the roof. And that's
the same thing. All those carbohydrates from grains are doing to you. You know, I changed my diet
about two years ago. I started exercising and started being more healthy. I've lost 30 pounds.
I've held that 30 pounds off. You know, I've continued to maintain being healthy. And it was a
real journey to just bust through all the bulk crap that people tell you is, this is healthy,
this is what you're supposed to be doing. And, and the, the amount of incorrect information is staggering.
Oh, well, yes, definitely. And, and, and that's where it goes back to like Kato says.
It's common sense. I mean, that, another thing they said to me is you, you, you should eat. I
mean, it's, it's proven that you should eat within four hours because after four hours,
your body goes into a, a state that says whatever you put into it, it tries to store because it
thinks it's starving. Yeah, I mean, the breakfast being the most important meal of the day,
that was something I always skip breakfast and it contributed a lot of the problems that I had.
And it has to do with the amount of fat your liver stores during the day for you to through,
it's called breaking ass because that is a long period that you go without that. There's a,
your liver actually stores fat during the day and releases it at night. And if you don't break
that first thing, if you wait a lot, your body is going to store more fat in your body to make
up for the, what, you know, it's always waiting, thinking that, oh my gosh, we're not getting food
first thing in the morning. Exactly. That's exactly the thing. It's just like, you know, they said to me,
you can have pizza, but, you know, and she looked right at me. It said, you know, don't eat
four slices of pizza, eat two. Right. Anything in moderation. But, you know, unless you've been
somebody who's actually written down what you've eaten and taken a cold, hard look at everything
it becomes this like numbers game in your head where you're like, well, I don't think I did that
bad. You know, only two pieces of pizza. But before that, you had six cookies and before you had
that, you know, if you haven't sat down and tracked a week or a month of what your diet is actually
like and taking a look at it, it's hard to say how good or bad, you know, when I first started,
I just was using an Android app and tracked everything. And I was just dumbfounded by holy cow. I
thought I was taking in 2,200 calories a day and I'm taking in like 5,000 5,200 calories a day.
Without even feeling it, you know, yeah, I was going to say that this is where something like an
Android phone or, you know, an Android device shines, I think, because I did the exact same thing.
I took that and the app made it so easy that, you know, you ate something and you could just
with voice recognition, open as that, say what you ate, you know, you had a medium-sized
apple or you had an orange or you, you know, you ate a slice of pizza and it would just start
storing the information and like you said, when you get to the end of the week and go, holy crap,
did I eat all that? Yeah, I recently cut back severely on the amount of starches and processed
grains that I've been eating and I got to tell you, I mean, it's like I'm eating less and I'm
less hungry, like most of the time. You know, in the summer, I run three days a week and I run
three miles a day and on those days I eat bacon and eggs for breakfast and I feel full much longer
than I ever have eating oatmeal or anything with those high-starch content. Yeah, almost every day,
I eat eggs with like onions and mushrooms and cheese for breakfast and I can go,
like I used to eat, like if I had with toast, I'd have with toast and you know, I'd be ready to
eat again like 11. I can usually go to one now just having eaten less and then at lunch I'll have
you know, leftovers from dinner that I before or hard-boiled eggs so I'll make those like once a
week or something like that and you know, like throw a vegetable in there or something like hard-boiled eggs
and zucchini, like the tomato sauce, zucchini from a can, like that's probably like that pretty good
and that's pretty filling and like and I'll go all day and some days I don't even really
feel the need to eat dinner and I've dropped quite like a surprising amount of weight in a short
amount of time and felt good about it too. Well, you know, that thing too, Poggy, but you shouldn't
really go from seven o'clock in the morning to one o'clock where you should in the middle of that
have a have a coffee and a and a and a piece of fruit or you can have a coffee and a little
Danish or something but you should eat something. Oh, definitely what I recently lost about 50 pounds
and while I was actively losing weight I ate more food than I did before but it was better food,
natural food, fruit, vegetables and the like and actually I got to where I craved it instead of
you know the chips and the suites. Yeah, yeah. It's honestly breaking an addiction to a sugar fat
salt cycle that there's ratios that are maintained throughout food products and learning to cook on
my own, learning to actually prepare my own food was a big deal and there's a there's a
Ted talk about a guy a researcher who was talking about the economic impact of being able to cook
your own food because when times are tough you're able to make more use out of staples and make
healthy foods that carry you through those tough economic times that it can have a massive and
the hundreds of thousand dollars of impact on on children who knew at the age of graduation of high
school how to cook seven meals from scratch without having a recipe out of their head versus kids
who never learned that and we've harped on it with my kids that they have to learn how to cook
that to learn how to prepare their own food that to learn to recognize what's going into their food
you know when you have a soup what that soup is made up of what the ingredients are how they affect
the health healthiness of that of that soup they're consuming you know it's something I we've
ragged on my daughter and my daughter now at 14 is a better cook than my wife was when we got married.
My son for a senior thesis in college wrote a cookbook for college students on how to
eat on a low-budget good meals and what he did was he took he took six months and got recipes
from everybody he could think of and went to the store and priced out the the amount it would take
to cook meals and broke it down into you know meals portions and and that's what he wrote it's
senior thesis. That sounds fantastic where is that available anywhere?
I can probably get you a copy of it, Kato. When I started cooking our food budget dropped by about
$100 a week. I was going to say when you when you mentioned that art I mean it sounds really good
and I'd like to see it too but am I the only one here that hates recipes I really hate recipes
I love cooking but I hate recipes. Gosh no I'm horrible in the kitchen without a recipe I cannot
improvise I've tried cannot do it have to do everything in an in a recipe exactly to the letter
or it will fail. Oh and you use like measuring cups and spoons and stuff? Yeah absolutely I mean
I've seen people I know people can go in there and they like put a dash of this and a pinch of that
me I have no concept of any of those things I will I will ruin a dish that way. No no my wife does
the exact same thing I'm not laughing at you I'm laughing at the similarity that my wife does the
exact same thing and and it usually comes out really good I actually cannot complain about her
cooking ever but you know every once in a while she'll try to make something that I normally make
and it won't taste quite right and I'll just say why didn't you add a little of this or why
didn't you add a little of that and she's like well I didn't have a recipe. Yeah I could draw the
exact same parallel between me and my wife and that you know I cook about 60 to 70% of the meals for
her family and she's actually a really good cook but she's very methodical she likes to have a
recipe she doesn't like to go off script you know and I'm more about to throw this in throw that in.
I created more good meals by just throwing stuff together of course I direct a few but I've
created a lot of good stuff by just throwing things together from the refrigerator. Welcome Peter 64
get out of the house. Hey Peter. Hey where am I now? Am I still in the land?
You're about going somewhere else. Oh you're not around the room buddy. I dragged you in.
You still? You're still out of the earth. Yeah happy um happy new year fellas too.
Well that way you you finished four to eight hours ago whatever it was 15 hours ago.
Yeah cheers man. Yeah wish you had a good new year. You know now I didn't get any of that.
Well now we can start the Australian jokes again right?
Gee Sandy I hope they got in bloody better than the ones you were telling last night.
That's how you know they were actually really good because Peter hated them.
Yeah yeah and of course Australian opposite to hate is love.
I don't know why do you hate Jude so much Peter?
Yeah I just hated the deaf class too. Actually I just said in the chat class too
my wife and this really surprised me kicks saying to me we have to get back for another
Linux Fest Peter. She had such a blast. I mean I there was no doubt I was just going to enjoy it
but I really cannot believe how much fun she had and how much she still talked about it.
Don't question that. Run with it. Yeah really.
Yeah really definitely. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Book some tickets man. Uh look honestly we we would come back again this year if we
could but uh we decided we might just spend a um a bit of time and I would do stuff
around the house. Well you've only got one choice left to you then Peter you're going to have
to uh head up the Australian Linux Fest. Yeah I think it's more the people rather than
what it is all about. I mean it could be about anything. It's just the people are happy to be
that cool you know that she's happy to go on to and you know I have such a good time with
that she wants to spend more time with the same people you know. Actually I'd agree with that every
Linux Fest or or a lug you know it's it's getting together with friends and other Linux friends
and it's your people. Yeah imagine that people who like freedom and openness are all pretty cool.
Yeah I must admit that like Linux and general bosses shit out of me but I really enjoyed just
getting over there and having a drink with everybody and that's exactly right. It's just uh
um you know I've been with friends and uh why is it but it's just like I knew everyone there
well that really I never ever met them but you know I've been talking to for years now.
Oh yeah the look is it's kind of yeah. The look is good um I got local one but
I knew that since like 2009 started going what's now last year 2012 right and um yeah
just a pub beating and stuff and it's quite nice but unfortunately it seems it's kind of
dying out a lot of people on the mailing list but the meetings themselves as highly anyone coming
or when it's the shame really but yeah first nice going to that kind of thing and the events as
well went some once again last year now 2012 the open source uh Linux event for first time so
it fuzzed them and um old camp 12 went to as well and that was right yeah but it's nice getting stuff
like that yet. Well even even just this right here you know you know these hanging out with you guys
in the mumble chat right now I cannot imagine having a better time than with the guys I'm with right
now. Yeah I think the same is it's good this. Thanks. Oh and I was going to say that's a
week of graduation. Well it makes me just kidding and Polk and you mentioned before you know about
organising an Australian one and honestly god I'd have one next week and if I knew you know
like crayon and stars and basil will we're going to turn up you know um and all used place fly
over. She don't have it right here and puts it all up in the house we could all fit on
sure. Yeah well you could fly him into the helipad Peter. Yeah and apparently you're going to check
it out on open street map and I'll see it. Be careful what you wish for. Peter I don't think
your quadcopter would handle me. No but I have to put a couple of cups on him for you. Yeah I
would definitely not handle me. I'm not a little fella. Me neither. Me neither so there's three or
four of us that it wouldn't be able to handle. What were you about to say Clyde to you? Do you still remember?
No I don't remember. I'm a son of a thing. Okay and Andy. You got to switch the push to talk please.
But the feedback you're so cool sounding. Echo. That's pretty good. Yeah let me know when you
when you're off push to talk and I'll unmute you again. It's in the configuration menu and
do you have to click the advanced tab to do that I think? If you need help we can duck out into the
lounge. I'd be happy to walk you through it. All right I'll do that. I'll move them out there
him or her. Yeah Peter you have to get back over here because I don't think it's gonna actually
happen that a bunch of us would get there. I'd love to get there. My wife wants to go meet you.
All right yeah no I mean it's much a great time we have and I'm meeting everyone but it was
disappointing there was a lot of people I would have loved to have got around and see and of
course you're one of them. Poke you of course you know I did get to talk to Poke you on the phone
but that's not the same. And Jesse James you know I would have loved to get up there and see Jesse
James. It's just too big here man I have to drive probably 45 minutes just to meet one of
the other guy I know. Peter did you get to meet Claudio too? No no I didn't get to meet Claudio
unfortunately. I mean there was a whole list obviously I didn't get to see. Where was that
what you talking about I missed that. Southeast Lennox first. Okay. I would really love to go
on Australia. Oh I would too. Well point me there's always a bloody room and if you get over this way
I'll take for a fish on the river. Careful what you wish for I'll show up. Yeah that's it.
I'll be there on my skivvies on your front door. Yeah then it's called a use man me quite good.
Yeah Peter what would you do if you showed up in his songs? I'd just actually take him off
with the door because we don't have a lot of shoes in the house. Right on. I assure you I have
no song. I'm from South Carolina I ain't got no shoes. I don't worry I'm more bloody shoes
really often since I left work either. Just think of all the all the recording you're going to
have for riding in your mower though Peter. Yeah actually I've already thought of that. It should
give me quite a few hours in the tank. Well it'll give you a few hours of audio that's for sure.
Yeah. So I'll tell you you've discussed how it's going out Paky. How the podcast is going to go out?
Yeah like you'll break it obviously not into it'll be more time specific than subject specific
I'd imagine wouldn't it? Yeah I mean last year I just broke it off wherever it was kind of
you know wherever there was a little pauser a subject change or something but this year we've
we've kind of intentionally stopped to say happy new year on the top of the hour so we can
probably break it off in three hour segments for you know eight or nine shows.
Content it's content quality doesn't matter. Yeah Peter you're going to have to listen to.
Yeah I've said it before when you sit on a bloody mower for seven hours a day you'll listen to any
shit and enjoy my estimate too. Well you'll have your fill of it then. What was the thumbnail?
Like you remember right back at the start of this HPR New Year special what was the thumbnail?
Like is that remember looking at the Linux basic site and it's got a little widget and the sidebar
showing who's in the channel and I remember looking like not long after the start and there's a lot
of people on the channels like oh okay there's a lot of people hanging out there I don't know how many
people are talking but there's a lot of people there. It's been strong from the beginning I got
here at seven and I guess they'd already been going for a little while and there were a lot of
people in there like 20 almost 20 people I thought but not all of them were talking like seven or eight
people were talking. Yeah and like there's got to be like 20 or 30 more people than last year.
Oh yeah for sure yeah. Yeah easily yeah I got up I thought I was up early and walked in here
and looked like oh my gosh are people already online and talking and they're recording too.
Yeah there's easily been twice as many active talkers this year as last year
and for twice as long. Yeah that I was certainly my concern. I mean I knew I wasn't going to be on
until like close to midnight UK time but I was always when I was pimping it on like the
bug cast and on Cliven's I was always sort of conscious of the fact that it was important
the people were there right from the start which would be like one time UK time because the last
thing you want to do is turn up and say all happened you and there's no bugging about there's no
one about and you think oh Sud that's all leave then I'm looking it's hanging around in the room
in my own you know so I was always conscious of the fact that you've got to start it off
and have a few people there even right from the very far right from the very start you've got to
have people there to at least start the conversation to entice people in you know what it's it's
almost like a busker leaving a few bucks in there in the heart you know but get to encourage people
to to talk a few bucks in you know yeah Cliven's that's how I found that out really because I
was catching up on an episode and I was around before it started a bit but well I'd always been
awake a while and um somewhere to make sure I got some few hours sleep and so on but yeah and
I'll probably be around until the end so well I think people who were around last year um I mean I
I was I appeared on bits and pieces of it like three or four hours maybe of it last year and it
was fantastic last year that's why I was sort of keen to to share the share the experience you know
people who are around this year join in you know at some point join in that that was my whole gig
over with Cliven's over the last two or the episodes you know like join in you know it'll be a laugh
so if you had any like special guests on like uh you had the blacks from oh black and lighty
use it from crunch ring last year uh yeah we can't tell you you're gonna have to listen to the
podcast yeah you should have been here there's been quite a few famous people
Peter Andrew Dick Andrew Deere for the staple yeah I'm Jeff didn't join him from Baddie
lineage fun and chance to see but Barack Obama that he's sort of clapped out at the whole
organizing the fiscal cliff and the Senate and decided you know what I've got to join in the HPR
new year thing and he joined in for a lot of while and then it disappeared again you know back to
work you know I can tell you we've had mentions of Angelina Jolie uh RMS um Geldeakaza all kinds
of people like that Brad Pitt yeah yeah we mentioned him can't take that you can't raise
oh yeah can't raise oh hey guys we got a happy new year's coming up it's uh less than a minute
here and thank you for reminding me in the chat room looks like wind caller thanks man uh we got
Bolivia Puerto Rico Dominican Republic and uh looks like Nova Scotia and Halifax in Canada
so happy new year happy new year happy new year Feliz Anio Nueva's
is that right not for Canada any you scumbag I was just trying to thank him for that
it did not inspire the support you you scumbag you beat me to it
well it's inappropriate for Canada I guess but I don't think can do sort of like five to say six
just have a now's pinded to UK but there's like an island or somewhere where it's well it's less than
that so yeah well even the French has been part of Canada isn't that the other side of Canada um
no that's the side no it's what's coming up in a few minutes yeah yeah yeah well
to be the they'll hit new year same time New York does yeah come back sit okay come back
sit he's one of the most beautiful places to go back to French Montreal yeah well wait a minute this
that's my time zone I'm oh no it's not in an hour okay yeah now in an hour next one the
fluff sitting out okay I'd be willing to bet anyone in the room and I'll give you odds
that not claw to has never been called a scumbag before that's gotta be at first
yeah is he said is he suddenly idealized oh that a clock there what does that do
oh wow yeah you guys join us in 2013 soon and it's okay the world still here and so on
I can't wait oh get scared you see I think Clotgy was having problems figuring out his
clocks is that binary clock now no I just didn't really look that carefully
that's one thing I've watched right I've been quite interested in this Google Nexus 4
and I've watched a review of Chris Prillo I think it is like the good news name is
when he's comparing it against like an iPhone 5 I think and in the background of his video there's
like a binary clock I don't know it's not I don't know if it's binary it's something it's a
bizarre wing clock let's let how the hell does he tell the time in that is that just a geeky
thing or can he actually look at that and glance at that and tell what time it is if it's a binary
clock he can probably glance at it the ones the binary clock I first started using was what I think
of as a normal one but then I guess they started coming out with a binary clock that that reads
horizontally instead of in vertical columns and that that one I can't glance at because I'm just
I don't I don't use that actively I had no idea how to listen to oh I had a read one of them
until I listened to an episode of the Gnu World Order Cloud 2 I know I share my knowledge I figured
that stuff out too I just I didn't have to look at a tutorial I just figured out the binary clock
I was pretty excited about that I had a binary clock in the front of my at a rock box running on
a little Sansa oh that's cool E200 and I had a binary clock that would come up on the front of
yeah I think I'm quite advanced that I split Gibberton over at the 24 hour clock it's the very
first thing I do when I install something so right now I'm 0 400 hours and three minutes and
I even showed the seconds as well like 18 19 20 seconds but yeah I cannot I cannot
grok my head down to binary clock it just baffles me completely I thought you're used the 24 hour
clock by default or no I did not it's a 12 hour clock normally 24 hour is military time and I
have no connection at all with the military honestly see the only reason that I use the 24 hour
clock is that once and I kid you not want true story once I woke up and realized oh shit I'm
waiting for the bus to get to work and I threw a clothes on and run out the door run up to the bus
stop and stood and waited the bus stop and then I realized like 20 past 8 25 past 8 half past 8
hang on a minute if I missed that bus I must have missed the bus and then I thought it's a
glistle on the road I could see like little shops they should be open fire they're not open
like news agents and things like that why are they not open and then I looked at it
Bill it was 20 past 8 at night in the evening and I got I got over 12 o'clock flipped around
and it was from I kid you not from that day on what I switched over to 24 hour clock I believe you
so that I knew 20 hundred hours I don't need to get to work or 800 hours I'm but I've missed
the bus it just makes more sense I mean I grew up with it but still the 24 hour clock makes more
since than two 12 hours it makes no sense and it is much more prone to confusion the 24 hour clock
yeah I think well yeah the UK what really uses both for can use both so AM and PM or the 24 hour
clock but on top of that when you're teaching children the time you might you might be like you
might be like okay it's ten to four it's four o'clock it's half past four and all that so there's
like three different time things and then on and then in the English and or in the UK we go yeah
half past four and so on but let's take Sweden for example I'm half Swedish as well so I know this
when they say the time so they're saying past the hours it's they say two the hours so it's like
so they say like three yeah they say they say like the opposite way to us so that's how
let me think second laughing again but so to say three thirty or we always always say three
thirty I mean two four not past four so there's that as well I yeah I always think of this story
it was a call around a radio show that I heard he called in and the guy said he was in line at
the doctor's office behind a young girl who came in and the woman was telling the girl I'm sorry
you've missed your appointment and the girl says what do you mean I've missed my appointment you
said I made it for you know quarter past eleven it's only eleven twenty and the lady says honey
quarter past eleven is fifteen minutes past and she says no a quarter is twenty five
and as far as I can tell the man was telling a true story he was not making a joke I believe that
too I mean the the confusion I had was someone said two and I thought they said ten or something
like that so I showed up to the my schedule at work like my shift at work like you know four
hours ahead of time that not that I needed to be convinced because I was already using it but
that's just kind of drove it home as to how prone to to mistake the twelve hour thing was
yeah for me see the thing is I mean as much as I have I mean I used to have a digital watch
now it's twenty four o'clock as well my netbook my laptop everything I do is twenty four o'clock but
even then I can look at that I look at say nineteen hundred hours and I don't say nineteen hundred
I say seven o'clock you know as I automatically translate it but I see in on the screen on you
know I see it as twenty four o'clock I don't this is bizarre I mean as I say from that day from
from getting the waking up and making a balls up at the boss that happened my day switched over
to thirty four o'clock this is what is it ever as dark I mean you didn't you notice that it was
dark or it doesn't stay dark over some time of the year it does I mean a lot of the time it doesn't
but I think that might have been one of the times of the year where yes genuinely does and you
really don't know it's I mean I only found out when I mean the time is the lightened conditions
and you wouldn't know you really wouldn't know I'm sitting waiting on the bus and it feels like
that time in the morning it's like autumn or something I've got that probably autumn or fall as
you guys call it and yet you honestly you wouldn't know it's when you're looking at waiting on the bus
and the bus isn't coming and it's it's due to coming it's like it's not coming why is it not coming
is it late I need to have if I missed the bus I'm sure I've missed the bus Bollocks I'm going to be
in trouble with the work again I've been late again not again and looking down the like the
schedules on the on on the bus stop for when the bit next bus is in the next bus sort of turning up
and you're sort of waiting and waiting and waiting and it did you honestly you don't know by the
lightened you really don't know so yeah I think I fit the heart and another time of year I've
probably got away with it but it just so happened that was round a bit of time of year where
you really couldn't tell yeah sometimes especially at this time it's like you know it gets dark
so early like four o'clock to and then it gets light about eight and it's just you know it's like
the morning the early morning is the same as the evening the evening it's the same as just like
the late morning and it's yeah well the only thing that triggered me was glancing along the street
and finding that the usual sort of um lights from the shops like the news agent and stuff like
that there would normally be open at that time in the morning they'd have been open like for a good
hour and a half with the papers and the rolls and the milk and all that even neighbor's shop that
was the thing that triggered me to sort of wonder hang on a minute what time is this and sort of
looking all on the road they should be open they really should be open they can't all be late
surely they can't all be late and that's what made me sort of trigger to sort of look at it and go
oh hang on a minute actually this is the wrong the look section of the 12 that's a great story
though that's a fantastic story hey guys can I just jump in for a second uh Mrs. N. Y Bill
keeps giving me looks because we have a champagne in the fridge and we're gonna do the whole
New Year's thing so uh it's been awesome hanging out with you guys and uh I think we're we're
off to the New Year's thing yeah how big oh how big time how big of a year how big of a year
all right cool guys see you yeah you two here's Bill great hanging with you too
hey guys in my late to the party no it's just time really or we were reading you told me not
before we started partying seriously you must have just started to have to buy your own just
not the eight arrows left of the party this one surfing you okay yeah and I think it is for
these these stories yes a good story unfortunately yes that that particular one that happened to me
yeah that wasn't made up and that happened to me so yeah good vibes yeah that's especially true
for uh Scotsman well yeah as I say you learn from your mistakes from that day onwards I adopted
the 24 hour clock uh what's the matter I switched everything to a 24 hour clock just so that
it would not look again again I say happy new year guys happy new year happy new year
where are you happy new year time zone no this is gorken uh I usually use w3 r a z over here because this
is where um Tracy Holtz and I just planned to use this to record uh our new amateur radio podcast
very cool I look forward to it if it ever happens how long has it been in the planning stages
well we had uh episode one actually recorded uh however between the time I uh we recorded
episode one and well it's still hasn't been posted yet but since we recorded that uh Tracy has
now changed his call sign to n5 u and x girl I'm a bit disappointed aren't you whiskey three Romeo
alpha zulu what's this bloody w3 r a z that sounds like you're a bit of a noob to all this stuff
now you can see it either way no you can't you've got to say it probably it's happening
well he's an international fanatics yes the whiskey three Romeo alpha zulu
I'm gonna type out kilo tango for kilo bravo and peel and peel who are you going to camp
remember it said for saying you're it's made for saying not typing that's the that's the truth
correct well in some people cut just end up calling me kt and if you if you saw a picture of me
I don't look like no kt so anyway hopefully when that will kick off in the new year sometimes we'll
see i really i know i told you this once but i'll say publicly i really enjoyed that hacker public
radio on the uh you know that you did like on ham on like very beginning ham i think it was
basically on the on the handset that you had but it was really informative yep and i'm free
to cater because i have a d star radio i guess but the main problem with d star uh for those who
don't know a d star stands for digital smart technology for amateur radio it's essentially a voice
over ip technology for him radio and be the way i come in the japanese japan yeah i cannot talk
tonight japanese literature radio league uh they developed it together uh they used a kodak uh by the
name kodak it's actually a chip uh as a well as a kodak called a m b e and uh that is a copyright
held chip it's you actually have to pay licensing fees in order to use that in a radio wow
yeah it sucks much but there's something new on the horizon i've been playing with it
yeah there's kodak 2 coming yes and it looks good to me plus and there's also uh
yesu has some stuff uh what the f's is it ftdm i can't remember it's that they're in the development
stages they have not yet been fcc typed accepted uh for those in the america uh the fcc
or federal communications uh commission has to approve all radios uh that are sold for amateur use
hearing states now this doesn't include if you build your own of course just a quick a quick
official thing for people who can't see on on mumbo on the netbook i've just about it's like one
little flickered a finger just enough on the on the scroll wheel just enough to see all the
names in the channel at one time there's just few enough that are almost just about quite fits
on the same screen at the one time um all we need is a couple of people to back off and it'll appear
on the same team the same screen at the same time yeah change your theme yeah are you trying to uh
tell some of us to bugger off let's go to some of the live do we listen i'm just saying i'm on the
netbook on uh mumbo on the netbook and i'm i'm maximized and i can't quite see all the screen all
the names on this on the channel at the same time i can't just quite see them and it's like all
it needs is like one nudge of the of the scroll wheel and i can see i can move up and see the top
of the name and then one nudge and you see it all at the bottom um it's just so close it's been
that's quite unusual for tonight so i'm just saying i'm just having a laugh basing that
don't wait don't don't ask for a linux cranks vote kick because uh i'd be if i'm afraid to ask
for one i don't know i just wanted to say that that name uh w3 vaz live pounds out round yeah i
think so maybe think of um w3c or w3 for short as well well whiteweb comes to him
timbana's lee wepston isn't a lot yet i was actually i was gonna say i thought you were going to
say where's because it kind of does look like that too that's what i thought when i first saw it
actually where's that's that's exactly what i thought when i first saw it and it reminded me
of the uh the stankdog story about was so it reminded me to email him and fuck you to come on
the show that's so funny that you remember that story what where did we hear that how did how do
we both i mean i'm sure it was on maybe bin rev or was it something he talked about on the
agr no uh i think i've said this before but i think the the day i found bin rev and added it to my
my pod catcher was the very last bin rev show and i sat there and listened to the whole thing
i think he told the story that he must have told him because it was the only one i heard i didn't go
back yeah that was one of my first episodes of any podcast as well i remember that one well
seven hours or something it was great wow and to think that i i complain about dev random being
like three hours long yeah well this was their big final like goodbye of the bin rev radio so they
were doing a retrospect retrospective of everything that ever done so they had all these hosts on
reviewed every episode they did it was it was really good now you want an episode like that just
bring on Jason Scott trust me you can make it seven episodes yeah so yeah stank dog if you're
listening on the stream come on man we really like we really love it if you come on we'd love to
talk to you this is your baby and she needs your approval yeah get that stank dog in here
any who another thing at um and Tracy and i've been kind of banding about is a somewhat daily
show like a news kind of like tech news today but but not you know strictly
you know not strict as they are you know i don't know i don't know if we can actually do it
every day it'd be more or less one once a week but you know not exactly today yeah that's
talking about strion today yeah strion news today show once a week
yeah fuck those other six days and what's it about tomorrow's new speeder i would love to
fuck those other six days yeah actually to get my episode in yeah i actually got my de-star
rig on right now and if you can there's a little bit of it there whatever station is in there
see that's the thing with de-star it's either either in there or you're not there's no selective
fading like you have an analog if we're talking ham radios i have a ham radio question and it's
probably a pretty stupid one so feel free to laugh but are the words amateur and amateur synonymous
or is there actually a distinction there actually uh the hold on second being paged
anybody you make it sound so enticing overall they're usually used the same in the same ways
how much is just a vegetarian how much are
uh well there is a difference but it's not much well that was the best
best vegetarian artisan temperatures no offense got to which i don't know i've got to i've got to
cut the booze on that one i said most vegetarians are amateurs oh i get it so the words are actually
synonymous and interchangeable and you you wouldn't get marked wrong them a test for
using one over the other i don't believe that's on the test although you can check
no i'm not saying that it is i just mean if it were you know how i don't know i'm just wondering
if there's any difference at all are you disclosing that you have inside information or what's
going to be on the next fcc licensing test it's public information yeah it's all public
then he does that was some good detective in their clad you right yeah you know just all right
a lot a lot of funny on on the subject of booze um i've been keeping mentioning there's something
i love Terry Pratchett i love this world and i've been keeping mentioning this little quote from
this world wait a minute wait a minute this will wait at the same time last year at the exact same
time probably to the minute you mentioned the exact same thing i think you're wrong i am told
you're right about this yeah you're right you're right close to just playing it back from last year
does this is is this the thing we talked about earlier or if you get just as drunk you can remember
the thing you forgot and yeah no jeez you see you see the thing i never actually remember the
quote exactly quote the jay rule i'm broadcasting from inside of a shopping bag
so yeah the thing is you're right in the atom i've been keeping bringing this up but i could never
actually remember the exact quote i only found out the exact quote like three or four weeks ago
so um this is it we have considered we have had considerable too much of the booze and you can
the more you have of the booze you can you want to have even more of the booze and tell you
falls over which is when you know you've had too much of the booze okay that was probably two yeah okay
i think you have too much of the booze i think so too i think it ended like that last year too didn't it
hey clatu can we get that a sound bite of that so when he starts next year we just play it at him
so about this time he falls on to his uh activation key and stays keyed up for the rest of the night
yeah snores into the mic
it's to stare at this lab yeah i think all of that that's the thing i mean like
for not i've been keeping remember on that quote but i could never actually remember the quote
that was the thing this time i have actually remember the quote that was a point but the problem is
it wasn't really that you mean you've got to understand your audience and that's obviously
this moment wasn't quite so fun well you know it was entertaining but it's such a
it's such a distorting the use of language it doesn't really it's not really worth remembering
you're right i've got to agree with you you're right i mean what i'll show thought of that idea i'll tell
you she'd be sure i'll tell you Terry Bradget and by the way yeah i hope we're not the only one
who picked up on it uh gorkon i love that when you get paged it's in morse code you might think so
to answer your question a little bit more completely amateur radio and ham radio are exactly the same
thing um which i think you guys probably determined but how how the term ham radio was applied actually
there's some lore behind it just like everything else in ham radio um i'm sure at some point huh
he said hamature well yeah hey there's no such word as hamature it's it's ham h a m or
amateur radio um i swear i've heard people say hamature and that's probably because they're just
wishing it together and they're not amateurs are the people who say human they they brought they
took the h off a human and put it on hamature and herb and we're not going to say like the
human and ham where does the h come from what what does it h mean well it's more like ham is in a bad
actor you know so that's really where it came from and for some reason it's stuck i don't know
and that that's where um the podcast at tracey and i are going to record if we ever get around to
it is going to be called the wolf hog podcast now it sounds like a strange thing
but it actually has roots all the way back to the thirties and what it was was this thing that
Hiram Percy Maxim who was like he was like the first president of the American radio relay league
a a r r l but basically that's the main lobbying body for hamature radio dang it you got me
saying it um but for amateur radio here in the states and he pulled this out and it has
basically it's a very weird looking tool that could be used on bad operators
operators have bad operating uh practices and stuff like that uh and it has also there's a
another weird kind of a thing called the ready snitch and it's the same kind of thing and they're
both horrific looking devices and you you don't want to use on yourself but the wolf hog itself
was actually handed out at a a r rl national convention and uh there's several of them if you look
on ebay you can probably pick one up for about uh i think it's about come a hundred dollars i think
it's kind of a strange thing and that's one of the things uh we wanted to kind of keep with the show
once we like i said once we finally launched we want to bring back some of the old old old stuff
and of course talk about the new stuff now ham's ham's are bad and good
a radio radio is bad and good yeah oh it never used uh ten codes with a ham at your radio operator
they probably uh with uh look on you and shame good for everybody oh i i've heard i've heard
ten codes that's how people disappear 75 meters in the last week and oh yeah uh where there are
some idiots how is it how is it getting away with that and somebody doesn't really just belittle ham
but i just kept on going with their conversation straight how he came home to broken radio for some
reason it just seems to have cut its own radio it seems to have cut its own antenna cords
what story it was it was ten four good buddy stuff too i mean it was right out of the 70s
oh jeez truckers it won't even call it a good buddy anymore he must have had a uh oh shoot some tip
of my tongue uh you know a lot of fine banding call sign because it was an old call sign
no you break my heart well actually with the image of a radio if i had been really that old
uh if i ever got into that cb stuff i'd be watching smoking the binder as like a demonstration you know
that's what cb stuff is all about smoking the binder there for good buddy
unfortunately i'm old enough to uh remember cb radio when when it got its start
yeah i got to i got to interrupt here it is a happy new year for venice wala because they're on
a half an hour so happy new year is venice wala happy new year happy new year happy new year
and 30 minutes left for us east coasters yeah felice amio nuevo
nice for those people are just backwards yes east coasters we suck you know hey
yeah but it's not about us right now it's about venice wala happy new years
venice wala venice wala's backwards you know they're all turned around 180
but i'm wait i thought that was Australia yeah yeah they they're all bite but they've got this concept
called democracy yeah just see they don't have box news just because everybody thinks it's right
don't mean it's right yeah me too i'll bucket the home radio
hey begin of ham radio where is russ where is russ from the ham shack oh wait he's probably
licked it up we forgot one because brazil also has a happy new year around the same time
so yeah so it's felice on a new year brazil was an hour ago yeah well part of brazil but
the other parts of brazil are not all of brazil sounded good though while i speaking uh english
Spanish and Portuguese so i don't find any of the three i speak i speak south so hey guys quick question
probably the answer is no i'm sure but i want to check anyway is there a mumble client for iphone
no okay i don't think so uh bummer okay there is one now i think there is one now
yeah i thought something's helping it's not a very good one if you've seen the one for android
so we've got uh yeah america next isn't it full is it so next full full one full time
same isn't it it was another one as well a whyy or whatever and there's uh another island
and i don't know why you know it's got the iphone i don't want it out of him yeah it's not fair
do them on do it apparently there is a mumble client for uh ios and currently it's in beta
there you go well i'm sure there was because uh did uh uh nightwise check in earlier
yeah but yeah that was on a tablet or something i thought he said he was on his ipad
who's the friend right no he has his ipad as a cutting board cut
yeah that is true i do hear that i thought you could cake with the ipad
well the least tb is like a light effective test on mumble so there's people that say oh
apparently there is a mumble client for searching search you can certainly detect that oh
that's full of shit they're using that very same fucking mumble client
now i figured he just called his iphone uh like android tablet it was the name of it so so he
wouldn't be busted but uh yeah no it's it's actually it's stank dog he says he's away from his
computer you know actually that that's one of the things i figured out last year i mean i'm almost
40 i'll be 40 next year and i i can i can i can't be the conclusion that there's a lot of people
i mean i i i went to a family do and like my mom and dad's my dad's birthday it's like a family
meal and i realised that every single person looks like ten of us there and every single person
i was the only person who cared about software freedom about Linux or anything like that
everyone else there's quite a few of them used facebook and and stuff like that but not one of them
cared uh it was like uh moneys i was sitting next to moneys for the whole meal and she's quite
happily using her ipod you know and it came to me came the sort of bolt from the blue came to me
like why are we so fucking hard line on software freedom i mean okay you can promote it but at the
same time is it really worth losing people over uh insisting do you know what it's like insisting
or they all use facebook they want to shun all those all that contact because people insist on
using facebook and i don't want to use facebook not really ultimately at the point the end
point is they are family you know and so i sort of join up and use facebook and even if i don't
use it very much i use it for them and you know i mean that's when it comes down to the hat the
the sort of poop when push comes to shove you know do you really want to be a hard line
archer or do you want it to say well you know i would prefer you use such and such but if you
really don't want to so be it you know so be it yeah i agree with that um i mean i mean yes it's
nice to have ideally having your family as Linux users let's say a lot of us would want
ideally our families to be using it as well and our friends or whatever you know people we know
i mean you know but in reality most people they they do not care they they just want to just use
their computer and want to go on Facebook they want to go on whatever and they're
using Windows app using Mac they're actually happy using what these uh full profit companies are
given them and that's that really i mean you can you can try and spain to them why they should switch
or the model or the band to do event but and all that but a lot of people aren't really going
to understand and at times well yeah you can lose people as friends or whatever if you push it too
much these you know to switch to whatever and that's how it is really i i disagree i don't think
that's true at all i just i'm not gonna use Facebook and that kind of thing just and give up my
freedom uh because everybody else around me has i'm just not gonna do that if if my family's
important to me i'll keep in contact with them another way and if they're and if i'm important to
them they'll do the same and i just right i don't i don't have enough in common with the things
that people use Facebook for to even want to join in in that particular activity you know i
rather just see somebody face-to-face if that's what it takes and for me to visit that's all she
had was a linux machine to work on even if she did want to go on Facebook and for me um my my entire
family my my wife my daughter we all use linux here so i mean you know we don't even bother with
stuff like that but like my extended family all use for everybody in my extended family all use
Facebook and um my wife you know uses it to keep in contact with him but um while back she set
me up an account and guess what i never use it i never use it i don't want to mess with it uh i
feel the same way uh you know i i just don't want to feel i don't want to give up that the the
freedom and i don't want to deal with the hassles of Facebook um before my wife switched over to
linux on her on her laptop i saw all the crap she had to go through because you know she got infected
and you know pop-ups and all kinds of crap because of using Facebook um and i'd rather just not
deal with it if they want to contact me they'll contact me by phone or by email if they don't want
to contact me well that's on them also for the record uh i i was to say i i i don't know i have a
single person is actually i'm not saying that it doesn't happen but i've never seen anyone actually
get something from Facebook other than click-jacking stuff which to you can get that in a lot of places
i'm saying well all i'm saying is i've seen my wife's entire Facebook account get hijacked um
yeah i'm not saying it's normal but i've seen it happen but i don't think this is what this little
web was talking about i mean there's a difference between just saying okay i'm not going to use
Facebook and and then going to family functions and being like this this jerk who doesn't
stop talking about how evil the iPod that they just got for christmas is and
right stuff like that i mean it's it's putting the people before the computers which is what i think
most of us really do right exactly in my case i don't i don't ever try to force
my opinion on any of my family they want to use Facebook that's fine you know i i don't say a word
about it that's that's their choice that's you know but does your family ever get me pissed at you
because you're not using Facebook no they know i don't use Facebook they've accepted it
yeah i think i think that's that is the difference it's of saying i for me i'm saying i use
Linux i am proud to use Linux i am happy to use Linux if you want to talk to me if you've got
infections on your Windows computer i'll happily fix it um but i will try to talk you around i
will evangelize open source i will invite and evangelize the whole concept of open source and
free software um through the venue of Linux through Firefox through Libra Office through whatever
it's there's a difference between saying there's that's the position that i hold and
and taking that to a step further than saying oh you use a Mac you're scumbag you're scumbag you
you're scumbag i don't want to talk to you because you use a Mac you use Windows you like using
Windows i won't talk to you because you use Windows you know that's a whole different thing
it's like accepting people because they are family because it's putting that ahead as Claudia
it's putting that ahead of the whole software freedom thing while still advocating the idea that
if you ever have problems with your computer i know what i'm talking about you know talk to me
and i'll set you up with Linux and i'll show you how to use it and i'll support you and all that
that's fine it's like an extra thing that's like it's not fortunate on them it's like saying
this is a better way of life and if you want to join the you know where i am sort of thing
i agree with Fissel web about that and um Facebook and Twister um well some of you mentioned
how accounts have been hijacked and i was thinking amazon over the years all these um every now and
again the remisand accounts being attacked at hijacked and then spam emails or or people's account
have been taken over but but Twister again um a few months ago uh my or something like that
my my brothers small the brothers account got hijacked or taken over by something and he's
he's not mean he doesn't mean they'll compute stuff that well and he's whatever but he
he basically came to me and said look what what what should i do um my accounts being hijacked and
i was like uh you you changed your password and and it's good and the same thing happened there
and you know it's stuff like that and i mean i've i've made it i've said for him before like
i don't i use an alternative to twister actually it's called identica or i do sometimes
down on that anyway so but i remember he came along with me to old camp and we had a talk there
actually with somebody and it was mentioned them and that how basically he sort of said um
yeah okay identica but the all my friends use twitter or all my friends use facebook and that
that's that's the issue right there for a lot of this what we're talking about people will use
what their friends and their family use they're not they're not in general they're not like us
not going to think oh this this uh service it's from a company there's all these ads and it
it's got some security issues possibly and oh i'm going to look at the alternatives and you know
it applies to everything it applies to software as well they're going to use Microsoft it can use
Apple they're not going to in general they're not going to uh think oh i should switch to uh i'm
getting viruses and windows i mean my dad is a great example he he he's used windows for for
a long time as part every company he worked for he used windows and he's had viruses and
and family computers neat you know he refuses to go and use inks and it's just quite simply
because that's what he's used to and everything's everyone else uses it so he must and you know
that's the issue we we have and so yeah people do not people do not you know people uh that's
what they care about they care about what everyone else has the same thing with celebrities i
personally do not care what the uh all these celebrities are up to you know i've got my own life
to live i do not care what the celebrities are up to i've got my own life to live i'll repeat that
but the mainstream at the average people that's what they care about as well same kind of thing
they care about what their friends are doing and their family doing and you know and so some of
these things are hard to say or you can't you can't um sell it and the same with um Linux distributions
you know it's a hard sell in general but a bunch who i'm going to use a bunch of sample there
they do have a chance of of going more mainstream i believe because of how to like how they're
really trying to get mainstream how does the company behind how does the money behind it
and that and you know how's commercial and that has more of a chance of going mainstream
the community distribution such as magia which as some of you've seen i'm uh
i use magia and so on contribute for a bit you know that's so i see it as well magia is lovely
but i think see it going all mainstream right where the masses have ever i do i do see a
distribution like a bunty having a chance though it's nice also that netflix is no longer a good
excuse since uh the comp Holyo version of wine came out i don't count that but um to get on
onto that subject though like um i don't know how many of you know uh beth linda from a high
Linux version she always would ask me well why does your wife use windows it's like well here's
the thing i love my wife okay i'm not going to say you must use linux uh no matter what i tell her
it's not going to make a difference i'd rather stay married to my wife than force linux on her
so i and i can't do that i do have a rule though the only there's only two sets of people that i
will support windows for it one is work because hey they pay me two is family and that's it
if somebody at church asked me i'll probably help them too i guess so three people three three
categories of people see you suffer from that that's it a lot of us do yeah you suffer from probably
what a lot of us suffer from and that is that we're pretty decent people you know we're like nice
people so even though you're like i'm not going to help people with windows it's like well if you
ask me i probably will because i'm a nice guy but what do you know speed cloud two if
if there weren't people i was thinking of this just the other day actually where would windows
be if there weren't people like us because every family must know someone like us right yeah yeah
and just to take your bloody machine into a shop these days and say okay my windows machine
won't boot which happens it let's say every six months been generous how much money would people
have to spend to get their computer spits i'm pretty sure there's a technical term for us and it's
called enablers no very terms but if we didn't do it would be apple my friends appreciate my help
with computers all use linux i'll give you one bit of that Peter where where would windows
bear in mind i'm now drunk i well officially class is alleviated but they say kindly i'll say i'm
drunk so but just keep that in mind where where would windows be if it wasn't for the anti virus
and anti malware companies if you buy imagine imagine the scenario if you bought a wondering machine
yeah sorry if you bought a windows machine and it didn't have a free trial of macafee or
mortem or something on it we would windows be it's the inflates this the web you're going down a
dead end road here because every windows computer comes with a 60 day free trial of antivirus and
every windows computer has a expired antivirus on it you know what i really hate too is when
people come to me say i hate my computer it's always playing up and i said now hold on one thing
you have to understand is that laptop or computer is exactly the same way it came out of the shop
what's playing up is that convoluted precious shit that you're used for an operating system that's
playing up if you put a decent operating system on that machine it would be fine and it would run
for yeas and yeas and yeas and you never have a trouble if they are you see that's not true Peter
I don't I don't see that true if Linux becomes as popular as windows is today guess what the hell
we're going to have malware and viruses oh yeah it's going to find another way to get them in right
that is a lot more secure like my understanding is one two three four how can it be more secure
i tell you what punk you serve me he hasn't he has a password now when did this happen
he upgraded it's you and he's grabbing it in all the time so i thought i better at least put one
two on me i'm so i i'm just just jump in here for a second i don't really consider myself
an enabler in that regard because um anyone outside of my family knows that i do computer repair
as a as a side business so they have to pay me to work on their windows machine
so yeah that's good um you know and and then and then for as far as family as far as family
um like i said my my immediate family i'll use Linux and the rest of my family is far enough
away that if they wanted me to fix their computers they'd have to ship it to me so it's much
easier to find someplace locally to do it yeah don't don't tempt i've had them do it you know
i think i think what doesn't help here is the fact that pc as generally as the that's the name
for windows pc i mean pc as we are north stance for personal computer it's not
to do with watch watch operating system as it's on it but as far as the world's media as far
as the world is concerned pc means windows pc i think that doesn't really help but that goes back
true that goes back to the root of the original operating system but that that goes back to the
really original operating system what it was called pc doss not ms doss pc doss and it was
later when when Microsoft kind of pushed in on the doss area that they they kind of co-opted the
pc name from ibm no no that that the pc doss was the ibm and ms doss was when it broke free
yeah certainly doesn't help when you hear like news reports and or a pc virus cause such and such
it's not a fucking pc virus a fucking windows virus get your fucking journalism straight
what i have to know i'm still struggling with that terminology actually because i grew up
thinking pc's were windows so i'm still yeah i still catch myself thinking and saying that
the the thing is they don't know and they don't care um to give you an idea um i was talking with
my mom i said why don't you get um concast because their connections going to be faster than your
DSL connection and she goes oh no i won't do that because uh your your brother has has that
and they're they're uh internet's always so slow whether i said oh it's probably because the
the kids and the rest of his family you know my brother's the type that when here computer gets
to messed up rather than actually fix the computer and get rid of the viruses and other stuff they
just gotten by a new computer and you know and and my mom also has a lock his trash can yeah and my mom
also has the uh the invalid assumption that well since you're you know if you're if somebody's
watching tv at the same time uh as you're using the internet then the internet's going to be slower
and i'm like you know it doesn't work that way mom well yeah it actually works that way for me
if i'm watching tv my internet is uh is my tv is streamed over my internet so right it affects me
right but you have a unique situation you have probably AT&T right uh no actually i'm up in
Canada i got fiber oh okay see well it's the same concept the AT&T's uh uh you versus the same
thing uh because you basically stream your tv uh over the same connection in fact uh your cable
box is also your cable on my belief on AT&T universe yeah the way it works for anybody that's on
fiber who gets tv service through fiber is uh your fiber is ip tv and uh it's so that actually
applies to them like if somebody's watching tv your internet's gonna be slower that is a rare case
though and more most people who have cable service would not be affected at the same time yeah
that that's not cable that's fiber right like yeah like my my connection speed i've got 80 megabits
per second down and 30 megabits per second out i've got a very decent connection oh wow see i've
never met anybody that had a faster connection than me i've got 75 over 50 you know what this
is but quality fiber keeps you regular dude they think that's somebody they got a couple people
up here who have 2525 and 25 megabits down and a hundred megabits up oh i've never
left yeah oh i'm saying is if if google fiber enters Columbus uh i'm there uh i don't care
and are you getting me the moment google fiber comes to the DC Baltimore area
yeah i mean you'll never leave room it's not only is it cheaper you know you get all the other
stuff i mean dude you get an x-7 and yeah i i know i know you know there's just email all over again
yeah exactly really but it's it's it's um it's a future these these come so cable companies are
just charging too much for this so on on the google thing what do we all make of the whole nexus 4
supply and demand debacle yeah i got a nexus 4 and i made a buttload of money off of it yeah the
nexus 4 i'll look to that and talk hmm so the thing is i mean google can't possibly look at that
and go it's an unlocked uh android phone you know pure nexus pure google phone and it's mutual
cheap compared to like the rest of the top of the line phones there's no contract it's all
unlocked everything's unlocked or that can't possibly be popular you know for ordering stock and then
suddenly it's a price to find that the fucking thing sells out yeah i think they were just thinking
that only uh android developers were gonna be the ones buying it and i'm like yeah somebody goofed
on that one well it's sometimes it comes down to just what parts are in it what chips are available
for each production run it's not necessarily they didn't order it's just each production run they
there's only so many pieces and parts on hand i don't believe that for a second
i mean they've never had issues with uh you know i'm not google but i mean other companies don't
have issues with finding enough parts for for their phones yeah i thought they they must have
some vague idea through market rate i mean bear in mind this is google we're talking about this is
the company who so existence as a part of official smart official scarcity scarcity rules yeah
yeah obviously right but this this is the company who exists because of analytics because of
analyzing people's traffic and people's interest in various things they know what people want
you know and they tell all that and it searches they tell that a lot lots of things they tell
of that and make it available to webmasters they know what people want they can't possibly be
surprised at the possible interest oh people might actually want an unlock phone it fucking
good prizes they can't possibly be surprised at that surely as google we're talking about yeah
google doesn't always get it right though on their information
that's true a lot of people don't remember that google makes google makes a lot of
mistakes along the way it has made a lot of mistakes along the way the differences they learn
from their mistakes and move on i've heard it said different times about different things that
market research can sometimes be kind of harmful to a product because people will tell you what
they think they want and they're often wrong yeah i have heard actually some companies who
the other market research points them to or this product is going to sell out
X amount of code X amount of units in X amount of time and then they make enough for that
and then they find out that they've got plenty stock left and no one wants to buy it and
it was like overstocked so and i get the whole thing i mean i think the ps2 i think it was
was accused of the Sony ps2 was accused of not having anywhere near enough stock to meet the
demand deliberately to to say that oh sold out here sold out there everywhere sold out everywhere you know
30 years ago almost new years here in the east coast all right it's not just these coast but we
got Bahamas, Peru, Colombia, Cuba, Jamaica, the eastern time zone in the USA and do they
call it the eastern time zone in Canada i'm not sure if they call it in Canada happy new year
but it's getting Canada and the western time zones five, four, three, two, one
happy new year happy new year happy new year happy new year happy new year
happy new year east coast
twice o'clock forward an hour back an hour i forget
or or well if a canis says happy arbitrary division of the year in eastern standard time
everybody yay welcome to 20 years but i think that sold us in now isn't it what do you mean
what do you mean an arbitrary division of the year i thought it was the rotation of the
earth around the sun yes yeah but when it starts and stops is arbitrary yeah the
experiment of time is somewhat arbitrary oh right i got you what what do you mean
everybody what do you mean rotate the earth is flat don't you know that the earth is flat the earth
has always been flat i'm it rolling rolling what's this rolling stuff the earth has been flat
it's a ring it's a ring world what do you talk about it's it's on the back of a damn turtle and
like elephants it's now you know you're talking see that's the kind of language i'm talking about
that's that's what i'm talking about that's what i grok on the back of a turtle on the back of
four that's what i grok your great afternoon that's what that's what i grok but it's great
out to and male or female we'd really need to know that apparently it's male i believe great
afternoon is male i could be wrong boy i hope so oh no is anyone is anyone still is anyone who's
still chatting at the moment still in 2012 or not uh i am i am time in the next time zone
at that point i don't care i just played someone with a dusk little difference it's not a
rolling and i was going to say there's still three more time zones to go for the us hey i'm at
time yeah i sander yeah i sander i'm out here yeah i'm out in standard more like four two two more
oh yeah four because of four there's like seven time zones in the u.s where are you smoking something
dude yeah if you go all the way to the edge of Alaska there's like seven or eight oh yeah time
square brought to you by nivia yay yay seven or eight i think you have to count Guam and Hawaii
uh well yeah i was saying Hawaii so that makes five seven Guam Guam's already over they're already
they switched with japan does it mean they're in a separate time zone Guam's already uh in the
region right yeah yeah yeah right if you if you started the east coast there's six because there's
the four continental time zones there's Alaska and then there's Hawaii correct yes i say all i
thought all of Alaska was in a single time zone or or something like that and this exercise and
futility is exactly why amateur radio operators use universal cord dated time otherwise known as
green watch mean time that's what we are using green which is just mean time cool yes you're right
just an just an FYI that is a w a w is not pronounced so it's just green it's rather than green
which just saying oh i didn't know in the summer you're just european also we're American we don't
do you can i say something like when we got summer in the UK we go off DMT or UTC and we end up on
BST which summertime yeah that's just odd that that really is odd if you install an OS
sometime over the summer you know your whole time zones are all throwing out is that i'll set it to
like London and Lisbon i think time it's like hang on i mean that's not quite right there on
our either way it's just bizarre anyway i'm starting looking forward to my traditional
pork and sauerkraut meal tomorrow it's a german tradition here i'm not sure that that music
is creative comments license i'm sure it's not in my my son i'm about ready to ring his neck but
any who uh remember i don't plan to do it that's an extra five to ten years that's right so any
but that that's what i eat for the first meal of the new year is pork and sauerkraut that's a long
time uh long time i'm already going after the pork right now i'm disappointed oh yeah
pizza pizza joe yeah i had Chinese for dinner tonight i'll get a sour German tomorrow
what i had for dinner tonight was Chinese yeah the southern tradition is to uh to get poke salad
well i always thought it was black eyed pizza south i did black i used to do black eyed
peas in ham right now i'm cooking up some pork shoulder steaks in walnut oil that actually sounds
delicious oh see most of my families from uh albama and new Orleans and uh for us the tradition is
uh trip jambalaya hey peter 64 you you really don't have any comprehension of just how
bad that uh little seizures pizza is do you you didn't try that did you i used to work
out we didn't actually we didn't need a lot of take at war right well put it this way if it comes
between little seizures or frozen i'll take the little seizures no way the frozen
there's no there's no there's no there's no there's no there's no there's no quality frozen here's
what's weird the pizza was like frozen like frozen and then reheated what depends on what kind of
frozen you're talking about though i mean that might be jorno i know i'll take any frozen pizza
pizza over uh little seizures i'll put it this way in the last day my eight little seizures
i did not poop for four days and when i did it really hurt
come on pizza is like you can get that from just about any pizza
pizzas like sex when it's good it's great and when it's bad it's still pretty damn good
that's right everybody absolutely like
and i don't know there's some sex i would be good to have it to enjoy it they tell me
oh the only good thing is pizza won't give you the clap
if you get it more than once is it in a pause
jump java girl says throw away the pizza and eat the box
oh all right all right java she's not wrong i don't say pizza hut is actually not that great
pizza anymore either whoo i'm off to bed so i'll take pizza cut over little seizures
good i'll say that pizza up here that has a fish crab and lobster on it
okay cheers java oh that's it yeah i don't know about that hey pipe man thanks thanks a lot
for hanging out with us man you're awesome oh see it depends on what kind of fish i'm talking
about because i'll take seafood on pizza any day but what fish are we talking about yeah hell but i'll
take i'll take uh i don't know clams maybe uh drought
well i already got a scallop scallops maybe uh muscles yeah that might be good
and me too have you ever cooked muscles on the grill like a charcoal grill not a gas grill
yes all muscles on the grill oh and like i said i clap to you's probably vomiting
try veggies on the grill clap to it would even eat that he would
what are the jokes on the grill oh yeah are the juggies fair goes oh man or or take some
take some corn on the cob on the grill oh yeah that's nice corn on the bobby now when you do corn
on the cob do you do it do you soak it in water for about 15 minutes before you put it on the grill
and leave it in the husk or wrap it in the foil yeah generally yeah we generally soak it and then
leave it in the husk oh turns out really good yeah you must be from the south because everybody up here
takes it out of the husk wraps it in aluminum foil and put some butter in it and i'm just like no
that's not how you do it hey i told you i told you i told you i have my families from Alabama
and Louisiana man that's one of the things that i i have kind of made a resolution for the new year
is to eat more vegetables guys don't eat nearly enough i'm sorry man i love that and i just
do a lot of wheelchair job we would never have guessed looking at your physique
guess my ass um no i it's it's just one of those things that that you know i like certain vegetables
but you know i i don't know it's just try try i don't like um like canned vegetables is
they're nasty but the only ones that i can actually keep around the house that are tolerable
or the frozen ones and i don't even like those i'd match where they have fresh vegetables
and keeping them fresh you know for like a week well that's what life's always easiest
well here's one for you what you got to do man is you you got to get your own little
bitty mini garden and just set it in the windows to let it grow here's a southern one for you
fried okra oh yeah okra yeah fried tomatoes okra now fry green tomatoes is good
America okra okra i guess i'm i guess i'm the odd man out here because i love me some fried okra
oh yeah i have fried okra in three years i'm dying for some fried okra thank you i think it's an interesting
texture what is it i've never heard of this it's so im vegetable yeah Peter it's like a um
it's okay the outside is like a pepper but a little uh more fibrous and the inside is like
this is a little oil and then there's a little balls that pop yeah it's not like a chili
or no it's not spicy at all it's almost like a mix between say a gourd fruit and an asparagus
yeah yeah bro i like to say it man and if you fry it up it just pops in your mouth you know
now fried mushrooms i love fried mushrooms but they're not exactly healthy
oh yeah it loses all of the slimy you you don't get any of the slime when you fry it it's just
this nice juicy piece of veggie it also makes it all right like i say walnut oil or i want to hear what
i want to hear what clatu had to say go even better and say it's a fried portobello mushrooms
i want to hear what clatu had to say about vegetables he's the pro
yeah i like them right on thanks clatu no that's helpful i'm hearing you need me
that's my my question what would you make clatu yeah if you're making your own dinner right now
what would you make like a salad or what would you do no i mean now that you guys are talking
about grilling i would grill a bunch of vegetables like on a kebab and just uh and eat it right
off the the kebab stick that that's good stuff like you know potatoes tomatoes artichoke hearts
mushrooms i mean i know i mean it's really yeah i love grilled vegetables
throw some prawns in there i'd have to put some food alongside it i'd have to go with that
and either throw some crawfish or crawdads or some shrimp on there
prawns and that at all that's what i'd say and i'd go with i'd go with all the vegetables you just
said but then i'd add in either some some some prawn some crawdads or some shrimp to it food
no shrimp or vegetables those are those are insects i believe right
uh they're correct no yeah yeah so very high protein low fat very good for you
so the one the one thing i'm missing from the south i've been missing collard greens and what
anybody else never had them i oh man it's not that i'll be eating tomorrow yeah no no no not not to be confused
with segregated greens yeah i i can't like like uh for spinach i'd much rather have it raw
than i would cook because cook spinach is just yeah yeah maybe spinach leaves on a salad that's a
winner i was thinking you're you're probably not cooking it the right way you you got to get about uh
you got to cook pound a bagel i was drain off all the fat all the fat
the only one there are casserole yeah spinach is just incredible or like you guys said wrong
a salad but when you go the only way i don't find spinach i have a can now with spinach that's
nasty talking about fried mushrooms i was thinking to myself why would you ruin a perfectly good
mushroom well the only way the only way i'll eat spinach is the the spinach leaves in a salad man
that's yeah i need to try to ice up a bunch of spinach leaves and pop them into a nice thick stew
yeah i put them on pizza yeah do you guys have more real mushrooms where you are
yeah uh morels are like butter man yeah they're a little too they're a little too rich for me they
don't agree with me at all i like them but now there's something i started doing for my wife
mushrooms i think they're nasty oh i love mushrooms something i started doing for my wife and
and this is not for claw two because it involves me but we like pizza in our house of course
but my wife is a diabetic so it's you know something where you should really be and so one
about once a week i bake her a low-carb pizza and that's essentially the bottom is hamburger and
two cups of mozzarella mixed together then you just kind of flatten it down on your pizza pan and
throw your sauce and cheese and whatever else you want on top of that and uh it's not quite pizza
but it kind of gives you that flavor of pizza and it's a little bit better for my wife to eat
and i like to put more vegetables on that too how long do you bake all that before you
bread it deep fry it i don't bread it or deep fry it but i bake it for just until uh like the
cheese gets golden brown you know uh just kind of like a good pizza uh back under the mushrooms
thing got a great recipe for stuffed mushrooms you take uh just any old mushrooms snap the stem
off shove a bunch of cream cheese in it and dice up a couple of onions and put that on top and then
put some extra old cheddar right on top lay that on the grill and let it rip 10 minutes later
i've got one for you good um it's a variation on that same recipe uh the only difference is
is you take and dice up jalapenos and stuff them in the uh the the sour cream or whatever you put
in the mushroom that sounds yummy i got hot that's what he thinks that's good
well well when you when you when you've eaten jalapenos and habaneros and other peppers jalapenos
aren't that hot but if you've never really had if you've never really had a hot pepper before
yeah it'll probably be uh so when you're stuffing your jalapenos do you de-seed them or do you
leave the seeds on leave the seeds in your wimp yeah i always talk about chicken and dicing up
the jalapenos and throwing them in the the sour cream in the mushroom but yeah you leave the seeds
in no matter how you do it yeah there is it the thing but the jalapenos is make sure that when
you're picking the jalapenos out go for the really tiny ones the really absolutely minuscule ones
the smallest the better they are the really fucking strong-erch ones i mean the bigger ones they're a
bit weak but the small ones they are really fucking concentrate for the box they're weak you want
some you want some concentrated jalapenos find somebody from south america guatamala argentino
wherever who uh knows how to grow jalapenos what they do is they actually grow them in sort of
a greenhouse setting where they have basically water they're water sprinkling on them basically
twenty four seven the trick with any pepper is that the more you water it the hotter it grows
so they basically water them twenty four seven seven until they're fully ripe to get them as hot
as they can get them nice hey peter yeah i i think a jalapenos they're like the uh
they're like the gateway pepper or like maybe a fulcrum right on a on a seesaw so everybody's
sitting on the cool side of the seesaw that the jalapeno is the hottest thing they can imagine
but if you actually eat spicy food and get into it the jalapenos about the coolest thing you
consider hot and spicy yep i don't need nothing like that pakey like i said anything hotter than
veggie mites too hot to me even pepper and genies
capsicum on the barbecue is as fast as hot as all ever get
i was gonna say i've had um japanese yellow mustard and we're not talking about american yellow
mustard we're talking japanese yellow mustard that stuff i don't know what what kind of peppers or
whatever they put in them but that stuff it goes down it's kind of hot but as soon as it hits
your stomach it literally is like someone lit a fire up your spine and then it shoots out your
eyeball that's hot i think the oil stuff is horseradish not not uh well that's wasabi was
i really love wasabi that stuff's great but i don't i don't think wasabi and yellow mustard are
going to be the same thing because mustard mustard and wasabi's a horseradish it's a different
plan it was i was gonna say wasabi right to wasabi is actually kind of hard to get here in the states
you know maybe over there maybe in the middle of the country out here by the coast you can get it
all over the place see well it's a different world almost it really it kind of is like the wasabi
i would find here in the store it's it's not what they would call true wasabi it's powder right it's
just not it's not the same but it's real wasabi you have to it has to be powderized and you have to
mix it up because if it's if it's stored wet then the the the spice that's in i forget what the
spice is called it's not capsaicin it's not the same as other peppers but that spice evaporates
if it's wet they have you have to keep it dry to preserve it it's just it's nasty after a while
i like wasabi peas for snack yells are really good have y'all ever had the the Vietnamese chili
peppers um nope i have no idea i have how long ago did this to have all those
jet foods are so pretty hot and we're wrong how much are we gonna start getting hungry
i was the third time it's devolved into food conversation i was just saying it's gonna be
common with this crowd i've never actually had the Vietnamese peppers but i've wanted to try them
i've been actually looking for them i haven't been able to find them anywhere around here
where are you at now i can tell you uh i'm in the Baltimore DC area and it's probably just because
i'm not looking in the right place go go start scouting out your local farmers markets man i
i know uh down towards washington there's a farmers market that has Vietnamese chili peppers
because i've driven through there nice i'll have to check it out interesting and
we're in a market too anybody who feels the conversation is devolved to a particular topic it's
your show too man you can i didn't see who said it but you know feel free to change the subject where
we're all in so much that is like i've only got about 20 minutes to be in here to participate so
if someone wants to have like a technical discussion i'd love to get in on that before i have to
step out and you know bring in the new year
Yeah, what about that? What about that windows a surface and R T and U F I
Oh, shut up you drunk fuck yeah
Right
Here's a type of one out of a symbol lot of Mark. Hey, thanks this a web. Let's go back to
I've got a technical question for you guys if we want to change the subject
That a couple of other girls that came back out in November talking about how the Gennome project was
basically switching their opinion and
Gonna release a sort of Gennome 2-esque
version of Gennome now
Again, anybody tried that out or or what's their opinion on that because I was thinking of trying it out
I haven't tried that out and I've heard about it
But I was wondering if anybody in here to sort of tack on a question to your question was even
Sort of believing that Gennome has any idea what they're gonna be doing in the next six months
You know
That would be the point but they realize that passing people off on a fucking huge scale was probably not a good idea
Well, welcome on and I love KDE, so I don't guess I'll be trying that anytime soon
In earlier on this thing I heard about you know people discussing KDE and now we're talking about Gennome and
Fistle web mentions pissing people off and that that's sort of the way Ubuntu is going now, right?
I mean, they don't give a crap about how anybody does anything these days. They're just gonna go their own way
they're gonna be Apple 2 and
I think Gennome was like pulling back and saying well, we're gonna do something different. We're gonna put out a test
We're gonna be we're gonna have a
Desktop that's all our own meanwhile since it's open source everybody's taking it in three or four or five or six seven other
directions and I'd like to know where the desktop thing is going because I'm personally a fan of Gennome
But I don't see where it's going to wind up at this point. Well for me
I've I've used and I don't use known I use open box and I do have used xfce
I switched back and forth between them
But I use Nautilus as my my file manager
Primarily because it has a split pane and as soon as the the gnome developers decide the split pane
Well, we don't want that. We're gonna remove that. That was the point where I flipped I completely
Flipped on gnome. I really do not give a hoot about gnome as far as I'm concerned
They can they can dissolve they can run in a I don't care. Honestly, I really don't care
I would love see that's that's just one in quite a lot of decisions
But that's the one that particularly affected me was we are going to remove that split pane is like how fucking dare you
That's the only reason I use Nautilus if it wasn't for the split pane. I would not use Nautilus
That's the only reason I use Nautilus and that to me was like a complete
Basically a big middle finger to the the users of gnome to me at that point. I don't care what happens to gnome
If gnome runs off the edge of a cliff with a handful of users a handful of developers and everywhere else abandoned them
So be it the the the made their own bed as far as I'm concerned
Hey, this whip. I'm not a gnome user. What do you mean by a split pane?
I mean
Split in half so you can see one folder on one side and one folder on the other side
Yeah, in Nautilus if you click if you put press the f3 button
I don't use it very often. I have to say I don't use it very often
But I love the fact that it's there that is the the reason I use Nautilus
Every now and again when I have to copy something across from one folder to another I click f3 and it splits that window in half
That's nice. What's been
Tell me about it. That is fucking useful. That is
Here's something for you this web if you use Linux Mint
The latest Linux Mint ships with Nemo as the file manager exactly exactly
Exactly, and that's one of the reasons why Nemo exists
Why Mint decided to fork it in the first place is because the gnome
Developers are assholes the gnome developers decided oh no one uses that split pane
Shite will just remove that no you will fucking not that's the that's the only time I kid you notice the only time
I have ever as soon as I read something on like slash dot or omg. I've been to or whatever
That's the only time I have ever immediately jumped into synaptic and said lock this
Lock Nautilus at this very at this exact version do not
Allow it under any circumstances to upgrade because I need I want that split pane
That that's the only program I have ever actually jumped out my way to
To stick at the very at that version because the gnome developers are fucking assholes
Don't you didn't care so this will win
I just fired up not uh not Nautilus. I just fired up doff in all my slackware 14 install and I hit f3 and it split my pain
Oh, yeah, no on feature since like midnight commander
Yeah, I was also like tux commander, which has that too
So yeah, there are other file managers that have that feature. Oh, yeah
I know that I know that this will web you keep up this kind of drink and you're gonna have a splitting pane of your own tomorrow
I don't even worry about it
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, step back a second
I think I was clear back to on windows the old Norden commander, right
See
That's one drawback to you know, I use xfc and tunar right tunar doesn't have
Split pane functionality and that's the one thing I miss about Nautilus
But you're okay, well
Let me finish this thoughts since I've said it like
Seven hundred
Sorry about that, but I mean you're also jumping into the fact that you don't like the Nautilus file manager
But that's not all of GNOME and of course if it doesn't do what you want to do
You can throw in whatever file manager you want and isn't that part of what the freedom allows you
You don't have to get pissed off at the GNOME developers because they want a different way
If you choose to do something or you choose to
Use a workflow that works in a different way that they've decided on you have a path to
You know the method that you want to use you don't have to
You don't have to condemn the GNOME for that
See you're right up until up to a point you're right
I mean the way I look at it is
If it was something when norm change from gtk 2 to gtk 3
Everything needs to be reported. That's fine. I get that
When people when they port various functions and features across and various applications across
I get the fact that there's going to be limited resources and and all of that. I get all that
The thing is with the split pane feature that was the only one that concerned me
Mean there's various other features as well that they decide through the bottom eyes
But that was the one that affected me with the split pane
So that's that's a personal thing from me. There's like the split panes. I need that
I want that. I like that. I enjoy that. I want to use that
Don't take that away from me. I get that now
When you take that away, it's already something that's already been developed
It's already been ported. It's not as if it's something that they say well
Okay, it doesn't really fit with the new gtk
So it might take us a while to get there. I get all that
But it's already been done. It's already been converted to exist. It's code codes already working
Why take away? That's my point. It's not getting anywhere and anyone's way
Why let me let me ask you this ability that there may not have been anybody to maintain it either
Let me ask you this k5 if
If you know if somebody were to do just that to take out
Nautilus and you know put in a different file manager
How much breaks? I mean because with the desktop environment like you know
So many of these programs are linked into one another that I mean you just try to remove one and you're removing the whole desktop
Because everything relies on everything else and if you don't remove it and just try to install a different program
And use that instead
Well, then it's not always opened by default when you you know go to click on files or stuff like that
It doesn't I mean it sounds you know easy to do but there are certain cases
You know within desktop environments where you simply can't do that and I don't I don't know if Nautilus is one of those cases or not
But it does exist
Actually
One of those cases because Nautilus actually does the desktop environment as well
You actually to go through some amazing contortions to use Nautilus without having it actually start a known desktop on you
Um, you know
You know the thing is that we would think that I look at is that
When things like
Nome 3 were being developed there were a lot of decisions that were being made that it was like
They were just being put out there because they wanted to kind of like a change for change changes sake type thing
And I just didn't have any respect for that. I mean
This is a perfect example of one of those things where it didn't make any sense to actually make this change
You know with it's taking away functionality that people have come to rely on
And you don't just change that stuff for the sake of being different
You know and it's something to know about that sound jacer. I think they had their reasons if you look at their discussion
They have use cases for all the
Simplifications that they're doing well
Do address pokies question actually. I'm not sure if I even remember it now, but I think the idea was that um
There's kind of two things involved there one is the integration of the file manager and perhaps the desktop manager with gnom overall is a desktop environment
And the other thing is integrating all of those things as a package dependencies and whatever a particular distribution
You're using and yeah one could be problematic if you're trying to like just uninstalled novelist
That can create all kinds of package dependency issues and I can see where that would be a problem
But I think in that case what you do is you leave everything that gnom requires in place and then you
Incorporate what other additional file managers or window managers that you want to include
For your specifications and then you do whatever configuration is necessary to change them
And then as far as this level is um what he said about um
The things being removed
Yeah, I also have a problem with functionality being taken out for no particular reason
And if that code was in there and working and it was literally removed
I can see where
Someone might be upset about that, but if it's
Instead sort of still remaining in the code base, but just turned off and maybe there's a switch to turn it back on
That might be something worth investigating, but if they've actually ripped out working code
Yeah, I can understand why someone might be upset about that see that's exactly what they did
Basically removed the ability to do split pain period
Yeah, that's the point. I get the fact that they try to simplify it
And if if they say that we will have it by default
Only a single pain and you have to go into the settings to change that and enable that extra split pain
That's fine. I have no problems with that
But when they actually remove that functionality that's
That is when I get I've read that's when I get best off
I love the stank dog
He's muted and deafened right now
Sorry, but we're talking about something and then I kind of
Hey stank sounds like he's playing back from earlier. What's up stank dog
Apparently there is a mumble client for iOS
Wow, and currently
He's playing back the thing about the the mumble client for iOS. I guess maybe he's on his iOS device now
Wow, what kind of a delay is he on that was like an hour ago
What kind of cluster fuck is this
What is it
With the lightest heck of this on mumble I feel that way on iOS
Partly there's a mumble client switch and sit wow you get something to take
Oh, that's for shit. They're using that very same fucking mumble client
Ladies and gentlemen the danger of hack or polygory was just stank dog android
Was the name of it so so he wouldn't be
busted, but
I can't hear jack shit in this verbal gang bang going on here
That's one of the things I think they're last year. I mean, I'm almost thought I'll be thought to next year
Have a question for you guys about mumble
Okay, well, that's great. At least somebody had something to say that wasn't an invocation of something that happened five hours ago
What's the question about my dog?
Yeah
What is the benefit of both
Muting and deafening yourself other than you want to look at what's written in the chat
I mean you can't hear anything you can't say
Yeah, that's a good one and I also want to allow that you do that
But I want to mention the two that's myself when you're done with that
I agree with me factor comment. Let's start kicking people
Yeah, the whole thing is probably just so folks can sit in the chat channel and take a you know
One of the 35 available spots for no apparent reason
I see this you know, yeah, and other shows too. It's not just here and this one
It's it's basically it's the equivalent of running your
IRC session in screen so it never stops no matter what you're doing
So who's for reinstating freak factor
You're here
And I was like
Woo, let me let me interject here
It's like killing me and I'm like feeding back anyway. I love it. Yeah
For some people this will make a difference
Or they'll be interested and for most people in here they will not and for most people listening
They won't care either but there has been a
Cell phone
In my life
Recently about whether to go back to the iPhone or to continue on with some other kind of mobile device
And I have made that decision. I have recently purchased a new cell phone and it is a
Galaxy S3 so I have stayed good with Android
Okay
Like two things and I was on doing a two lessons. There's been bad void as well quick
The side pain thing that festival was on about I went away and I came back
You cut out and you we were you said two things yeah, yeah, yeah, you cut out and you were challenged
I do believe you are challenging the split pain thing. I'm not having that
I'm really not having that the split pains is fucking useful. I don't care what anyone says is useful
And you keep it up and I'll give you split pains. Hey, that's why I use the Terminator for my
for my console
Because it has the for my for my command prompt because it has the ability to split it into up to I think it supports up to 32 split pains
That's it
Yeah, Terminator. It's a it's a GTK based
um
Command prompts, you know, you know terminal emulator. Yeah, it's a terminal. It's quite good. I just want to tell me
and basically
Like like I do server administration as part of my my my my job and
If I have to log into more than one server at the same time via ssh
I can just split the pain into multiple pains and log into all of them from the same window
rather than open up multiple terminal windows
And not only that but Terminator Terminator also supports copying and pasting
Unlike certain some some terminal emulators don't support that some do terminators one of those that supports copying
pasting in between the you know
the pain the pain
And it's just really good so I don't have to sit there and open up multiple multiple windows, you know
To do all my server administration
I think most terminals do support the copying pasting but
Not all of them have like the control shift c control shift v
Yes, it's my middle click
Yeah, it's not the typical control shift. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah, we just have to use shift insert to actually paste
Yeah, never tried that before. Yeah, that one works really well
I actually I tend to still use screen primarily because
Screen will work with any terminal emulator and
It you know can stay up when you disconnect from it and everything and it's basically on every machine
I ever have to Edmund so it works really well for me in that respect
Well, yeah, I mean if I'm remodeling into a machine that I'm using to do multiple sessions
I'll use screen but when it's on my local machine. I'm usually using Terminator
But I can I can definitely see Fisalips point of view here because I mean multiple pains is just really useful on any
What's in the what's in the other pain in in Nautilus? I mean what what is when the file list what right what when you when you open up
Open up Nautilus when you open up any file manager
You've got like your home directory and you move about you double click on some directory
Some icon opens up another directory. If you click F3 and Nautilus is F3
I think it's probably F3 and like dolphin that as well
But in Nautilus it's F3 and dolphin glad to if you wanted to test it out
Yeah, F3 it basically splits the pain in half so you've got two versions of the same thing
So you can move independently you can control you can move set one folder as something
In the left pane and then another folder is something in the other pane and then right click on something and copy two
Other pain move to other pain and either side you that that's the point of it
Then you click F3
Revises it back to single pane again. That's the point. It's not something you use that much
But it's something that when you're copying and pasting things
It's so handy. It's really handy
I mean, I love not I love tuner but tuner doesn't have that so that's the reason why that's the reasons why I don't use tuner
That's the reason why I use Nautilus is that it has the split pane option as and when I need it
Don't use it very often, but as and when I need it I know that the F3 button toggles the the split pane on and off
Well, this a web I gotta tell you man. I have never used this feature before but
I really appreciate you pointing out that it actually exists and I'm going to like this
It basically it basically saves you having to open up a second window to copy the file over
Exactly, especially if you want to keep the first one open
Exactly and that's the thing when the normal developers decide or that's not a useful feature
We would just remove that and let it know you will fucking not remove that
Absolutely no hell no way you will fucking remove that
No, yes, they will that that's probably able lock Nautilus onto that version so that it will not update
To get that new version and remove that feature no hell no way
I like that feature. That's fucking useful to me
Well, that's what mint did after after the GNOME project announced that they basically locked in their version of Nautilus
So that it would not update to the next version
Yeah, exactly. GNOME sorry mint fucked it and called it Nemo which I appreciate
That's one of the good things that GNOME that mint have done
And then Ubuntu as well they decide you they're going to lock it to 3.4 point
Whatever as they're going to lock it into the version before that which is a good thing
I mean as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing
They both the month and Ubuntu saw the same thing coming and both handled it in their own different ways
And I appreciate both ways
For those who still don't understand it
Go ahead and take a look at any standard FTP client. You'll see a similar split-point paint system in most cases
Yeah, like them but like uh
Trying to remember the only one that comes to mind is WSFTP
See thing is when people say it's the way it's still around
Well, yeah, that's it. I mean when people say it's like a split-point like Midnight Commander
Thing is Midnight Commander is two pains all the time. That's what it's designed around
There's a few file managers. E-M-L-E-F-2
Their FM2 something like that. Yeah, that's based
Yeah, that's based around two pains as well. The thing is
For me, I don't like two pains as a normal daily use
What I do like there's a single pain when every now and again when I want to copy stuff across
I like the two pain when where I can just flick a button and split it into two pains and do that copy and and
Flick the button and bring it back to one pain again. That's perfect. That's absolutely perfect
And that's what not all this does
What what was their excuse for pulling it out the first place?
I have no idea. I really have no idea
That was a point where no just flipped off the edge of the cliff for me
Is like they removed it for me for no good fucking reason
I don't know
The I feel the same way about like I said terminator
Um with terminator it's just a matter of hitting control shift. Oh or control shift E
And it splits the pain horizontally or vertically however you want to fit it on the screen
And if they were to if the developer of terminator was to suddenly say
Oh, we don't need split pains anymore. I'm removing that from terminator. I would just flip. I fit. I feel I feel this a web's pain
Uh, first thing I know how it makes you do it. Is that the is it that the same
key sequence is
Splitting terminal and screen and second what I am and I have everybody happy new fear
Happy to hear stank dog tonight bro. We love you
I was saying something I think I was and then I
Like yeah, I'm like bugging glume shell is sort of freezing. I'm impure every now and again
So I said I was saying from about the two lists and Android or at least I think I was and then
Uh problem people. Does anyone hear any of that?
No, no, no, no
Yeah, I mean for me the thing is I mean when people say it's like oh you've got all these various multi-pain
Uh, like yeah, I'm at FLFM2 whatever that is that that they put I think that's fine. That's Joe pain
That's all the time read for me. I like the single pain normally. It's just
Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. Okay. Well, what I had this web is it was an intentional dumbing down of the interface
That we don't want the user to
Have to learn all these options and stuff. So we're going to eliminate them
You know, that's kind of ridiculous though because if you eliminate the options for the power users
Then you're not going to have any power users that are willing to give really good feedback on the product
And I that's just that's a shame
I
We're in a room full power users sounds like a good business plan to me get rid of your power users. You can possibly sell some support
Well, thing is I mean with the split pain if you say split pains again, I'm booting you. I'm not kidding
Well, that feature that feature was the one thing that really got me
I said really we know
Okay
Right the thing is there was other features as well like the removing of the tree view on the
the side pane as well as the
The the status menu as well. That was also removed at the same time as the feature that that affected me
and there's all these things that happened at the same time
You're like well, why? Why remove them? They work just fine. I don't I mean, I get the fact that they don't want to port them or
The sort of the down the feature list
KT four years I'm as here. I was trying to say but they see what I thought I was saying before okay
So I'll try again, but I think it'll be okay. So anyway, so basically yeah
The side pane all this removing the side pane all that um, I
I think really understand more laughs about to be honest because I I am I'm abused known for four years and
No claim to and then more recently go in free and I
um
And when I use to the to this all I really do is I I just open up my files and go like review show hidden pal and pulled and get into the dot folders right
and
That's what I do. So all this removing the side pane. I don't really understand what that's about in fact I just
Little while ago when it looked at clone the files in in clone 3.4 just to see if I can find this thing but
She was 3.6 what you got removed anyway, so so yeah, there's that but we're gonna. Yeah, there is this idea. They remove features and
the power
The power off button in the menu to the shutdown was removed
originally and
Except maybe shown on the live CDs and people complain about that on the internet and
They're going to be published listened and so they put it they put it back there by default
And why didn't save for is how these been ascension for that? Well, there still is really for the old versions
I don't have have it there by default. So clean 3.4 for example
And then the other thing was the android somebody mentioned about um
How they'd say we're android and stuff like that and um
Well, I think right for a visit guy who on Facebook he um
Yeah, they're probably about a week ago now. He basically went on then said
I'm thinking of switching from android to
A windows phone
Because I didn't really know android and all the people I know I don't know anyone that android either and I was gonna reply back to that
I didn't do it, but I was basically gonna reply and say I might still reply if I could find it in bothered
But anyway, I was basically gonna say like it's up to you what we use
But I was just researching yourself
And the original is gonna actually put something about
How it's how it's how it's about android and I rest these days really
So that was my two points basically that I couldn't
Get in the full so yeah
Well, yeah, I'm looking at not less that I have here
And it's 3.4.2 that I have on crunch bang, which is devian weezy
It's split pains. It's not the side view. It's split pains if you click f3 it got removed and
2.6 I think
Hey, hey, this a web
You yes, yes, yes, yes
You got to learn to uh
You got to learn to code man to put the feature back in and take care of it
Yeah, you could have learned how to do it quicker than you've taken to explain this to us for the past two and a half hours
Okay, I think you said split pains again didn't you say you were gonna kick it? Yeah, it's trying to kick
Oh, come on. Don't make me be a bad guy. I was trying to just trying to get him to stop
Yeah, I believe in the booze, but I get the point. Yeah, okay
I'm trying to be a asshole. So no, that's fine. That's cool. That's cool
It's taking me moved on to the subject
Don't make me be a bully. I'm just being a bully. Yeah, that's cool. I've made my point
Split pains. That's all I'm seeing right move on see sitting in the next subject
Yeah, and you and you guys proved them too much of a whim to actually kick somebody
Anyway bluff called
Oh, I love you so much, man, as I say
Did you guys see the count down on the Ubuntu website? They're counting down to something. What yeah, I'm not sure
Yeah, we're on to phone
Yeah, so we can't talk about that anymore. Yeah, Ubuntu phone
Yeah, what a reintroducing split pains
Maybe they're gonna have
Kick that particular feature
They were they were wise, but not they've been to come down what it is
3d where you have to actually use your screen looks absolutely go awful unless you use 3d
Specs when you're using your computer. That's what I was
Earlier, I think I kind of messed it up. I'm gonna say it was gonna be holographic 3d pran. Okay. That's what's really gonna be
I think they're gonna
They're gonna go to a command line only
I bet you it's a tablet
They all want to do a tablet
It was just earlier, but I think a tablet as well
Ask for the pains. Oh, no, I'm gonna bring it up again. Oh, yes
Any briefly I just I just thought what I mean festival said that they didn't remove it in the Ubuntu
And I just want to quickly add on to that
Well, I mean yeah, they they this feature was complained about or whatever it was for 3.6
I didn't fit in probably with unity or whatever it was so
In in in Ubuntu 12.10 they decided to
Go back to the free point full version of Natueless
So yeah, they did exactly exactly they realized it wasn't just that feature. There was other features
They held it back and meant forked it as well, but yeah, we've moved on from that
I don't want to live on this
You know, you guys just think we think of something you know
It would be the ultimate gimmick for them to pull and I wouldn't even put it past them
Is if they came out with a phone or a tablet, but it had like a 3ds screen like the Nintendo 3ds
If it had a screen like that on it
Well, they've got that. I was just gonna ask if anybody had in in real life had encountered like an evo 3d
Or I guess I was just looking at a search because I couldn't remember was there's also Optimus 3d out there
That already exists. Oh, shit. I take it back like for a year pokey
Huh, yeah, you know a not with classes or whatever. It's it's like the 3ds
So I guess you get close enough to it. You don't need glasses. Just give you a headache
Yeah, B.H.D.C. had had a phone like that in a
A friend of mine had it and I really
It looked awful. I didn't like it
Kind of pointless really
For that matter of any of us ever played with 3ds
Yeah, I don't like it either
I tried one in the store and like the you know electronic section of Walmart for a couple of minutes that was not impressed
It felt like fake, you know
I was just really hard to focus on it when it was out of focus. It looked fairly 3d-ish
But you know if I tried real hard and focused then it wasn't 3d anymore
So it's like one of those old posters I had back in the 80s. Oh the magic eye posters. I love those. Those are cool
God only gave me was a friggin headache. Yeah, I can
How many people here? Yeah, exactly how many people could actually
Understand how many people could see the magic eye things. I tried and I for the late in my eye could not see any of them
There was only one I could ever is you either have to be drunk or blind in one eye
Whits right now I'm drunk and I'm blind in one eye
See you know when I ever was a computer ad on the magazine that you know you ripped the thing out and unfolded it and hung it on the wall
I could see that one two minute warning
Thanks
Yep central central long time dude coming up
Yeah, I could see all the
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