Episode: 1155
Title: HPR1155: 2012-2013 Hacker Public Radio New Year Show Part 5
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1155/hpr1155.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-17 20:31:04

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No, I'll talk more about the media sprint because a new one just came out.
We have, in case people don't know, we have 99 count the 99 Hydrogen Drum Kits, custom
tailored hand-made by myself and Skirlit helped me a lot, so they've got different drum
machines, they've got stuff from a free sound that we kind of rolled into new drum kits
for Hydrogen, so there's 99 of those, there's like 150 giga sample sets that you can use
in Linux Sampler, and then there's a bunch of more stuff, but those two I'm really kind
of excited about because they're really useful, especially the Hydrogen stuff, they're
totally custom-rolled, Skirlit did like, I don't know, probably 60 of them, I did about
40 of them, and wrote a Python script to bundle them all up into Hydrogen Drum Kits packages,
so they're free and available, the link is on GnuWorldOrder.info.
That was the question I was going to have, is did you use Python script to make the Hydrogen
kits or not?
Yeah, I just basically what me and Skirlit did was we took a bunch of samples that people
had sent us, and then we also got some stuff from freesound.org, and kind of, we laid them
out so that they kind of made sense in a general MIDI sense, you know, like that sort of
spec of, you can kind of expect to find a bass drum, a kick drum, a snare, a snare, a clap,
a rim shot, you know, you're set of high hats, so they all kind of made sense that way,
and then I had a Python script go through into each directory, into which we'd sort of manually
sorted things, and it generated the XML and stuff like that for the Hydrogen Drum Kits thing,
and so that cut out a lot of work for us.
Did you make one that sounds like dogs barking?
No, you didn't ask me for that in advance, so I didn't know to make that.
Oh, thank goodness.
Could you kind of make a little tutorial on how you did all those?
Maybe we could get that in a blog somewhere?
Yes, and in fact, I have been meaning, I might have, geez, did I remember to put the Python script
in the drum kit download? I don't know, but either way that little Python script
as humble as it is, obviously I will be posting under a GPL version 3 license,
so everyone can reuse it if they want to.
Some of the free sound ones are really nice, though.
I mean, I got some stuff that were just basically sample, I mean, not basically they were,
there are samples of real drums being played, and we rolled it into a drum kit, and it just sounds,
I mean, it sounds fantastic, it's just like you're sitting next to a drummer.
I've got my electronic drumset sitting right next to me.
Play us a tune.
I've got a kid sat next to me who likes to go,
unts unts unts a lot, does that count?
Well, we can get a sample, get a sample of that, and roll that into a hydrogen.
We can get a hydrogen kit.
Do you want to do the unts unts and stuff in a moment?
Because then, not a class you can record it, we can make a drum scene out of it.
You might find that works better if you hit them overhead with a stick.
Uh, really if I hit him with a stick, it worked better.
Oh, no fucking real drum hit you with a stick.
Can we get, can we get a big shot to use it?
Well, that killed the conversation, didn't it, you know, beating children and then apparently it's, you know, just kills the conversation.
I don't know why.
Go figure, yeah, I know.
Yeah, I thought we learned that earlier when Ken strapped his kids to fireworks.
That's bird, the conversation, doesn't it?
I always told mine I have duct tape and zip ties, so if you open your mouth or run your hand, you're getting tied up.
I think that works better when you say it to your kids in the privacy of your home, rather than on the internet.
Well, I tell the neighbors kids that too.
The parents love me for it.
I just think we're having a pool for concern at the moment.
Right.
It's very busy right now.
Oh, I thought I was waiting for pipe man to play us a drum riff.
I thought he was going to do something like that.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it's not hooked up right now.
Oh, I'm sure a likely story.
I could play my acoustic kit that's over on the other side.
Well, dead air, do something.
30 people in the room and I'm put on the spot, huh?
There you go.
Hey, you falling to your heart.
I didn't volunteer.
I just said I was sitting next to me.
Oh, man.
That's true.
He didn't.
Yeah, the Python script that I used to make the drum kits is almost perfect.
There's one thing at the very end where it doesn't tar and gzip the result correctly, which I can't figure out.
So once I post it, if anyone wants to, if anyone who knows Python wants to look at that and see what I've done wrong, feel free to do so.
Got to.
You don't do anything wrong.
Come on.
Apparently I did because I had to tar and gzip everything, not manually, but separately in a bash loop.
So I don't know.
It seems like it should work right, but it just it never did.
That's always the way.
Yeah, I mean, I totally, I mean, it really, it was exactly what I was supposed to put.
So I don't know where the problem is and I couldn't figure it out and I got tired of debugging it.
So I just, you know, got the Python script to do everything up to that one point and then I just resorted to a for loop in bash.
Yeah, that's creative thinking.
Just work around the problem.
Yeah, I mean, that's why they call geeks hackers, you know, you just kind of, it's not pretty all the time, but it works.
Yeah.
Dan, if you could, could you do me a favor and just say, we'll keep an eye on that.
Okay.
Just get ready for it.
We'll keep an eye on them.
Perfect.
Now Dan has said, we'll keep an eye on that to me.
That's my podcasting life is complete.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm still waiting with this drum, this amazing drum roll that's going to kick off any minute.
I'm thinking debugging was a Jamaican invention in the world.
Don't get it.
We always pay well with his crickets.
We got at least another 24 or 12 hours to hear the drum roll.
It's, it's almost like a John Bonham solo.
A bit of a bit guilty now.
Is he gone off to like get his drum kit and put it all together and stuff?
He's carrying a snare over there.
I move the snare over.
Ah, that's okay.
Yeah, to go get the roadies.
I can't get the thing to stay on though.
They need both hands.
That doesn't sound good.
Or that could sound really good if you're a woman.
Yeah, I just put a microphone on the top of it.
Now it's holds.
Yes, it is good.
You should, you should do that drum roll every hour before the hour.
That way it can bring in the new year for all the rest of the world.
It's about as much fireworks as we're going to get on here.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Can't you just put it in a hydrogen drum kit and we'll script it?
Sounds like work.
Just having a little issue in hand of it though, right?
I thought so.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I just won't be tired right now.
Wow, if anybody's curious, there's like 60 people listening between the two pools of you know,
Og and MP3 streams.
Nice.
I think Dan should regale us with a tune.
I can't at the moment.
My throat's a bit kind of screwed.
I had bronchitis over Christmas, which has been really nice for about a week.
And I still haven't got my voice back yet.
I could possibly do something by Tom Waits at the moment.
That's about it.
I was going to suggest it.
It was going to suggest some scat or something.
Oh, right.
Should the bat bow.
Should the bat bow.
Is that close enough?
There you go.
I don't have to grab a guitar, but I could do a tune.
Someone needs to do an old line sign.
Why haven't we done that?
I've never taken the time to learn it.
It can't be that hard.
This is the throat equations be forgot.
Normally, how it goes.
Just start your engines.
What?
Yeah.
Dan was at you that was doing the Frank Sinatra thing and looks like it was.
I mean, she looked old like she was.
Frank Sinatra was doing old legs out.
Oh, looks an actress now.
I can't remember.
Possibly I did.
Let's see.
Frank Sinatra.
I don't know.
I can't really do Frank Sinatra that well.
It did the 2B2B2.
Yeah.
It did the 2B2B2.
Yeah.
That's my dad's favorite joke.
That's why my dad's favorite jokes.
What Frank Sinatra's coffin made out of?
2B2B2B2.
It's not a good joke.
You guys are tempting me.
I got my Yamaha keyboard here.
What model is that?
You know, I forget.
It's a YPG235, I think.
The only reason I ask is I bought my YF1 for Christmas.
Hey, my memory is good.
YPG235.
Hers is either a JDX or GDX640.
Yeah, this one's a few years old.
Oh, this one's been out for at least a year and a half because that's when she pointed it out to me in the store.
With all this dead silence, I want to talk about my damn torrent tracker site, people.
Yeah, let's hear it.
Please do.
All right.
So what it is is I want to, basically, I wanted to create a place where I could seed podcasts back to the community.
But I wanted them to only be like creative comments podcast so that I wouldn't get caught with, you know, somebody getting mad at me because I was seeding content.
It was licensed or that wasn't in the public domain or wasn't creative comments or anything like that.
And I didn't want to have to sign up for 600 different RSS feeds to get everything I just wanted one.
So I was digging around and I found some source code for a private tracker that was fairly regularly updated and I started playing around with that and then I was like,
yeah, it's not false. I can't use that.
And went around a while after that and this a web came along and he just lit a fire under my butt.
And so I finally went back to the source code from the private tracker and use that.
And that's what I'm running now.
And I just want to create, you know, a private tracker for everything creative comments.
But mainly so I can download my podcast or torrents.
Sounds like a great idea.
Yeah, I figured it'd be a really easy way for like everybody who's like an artist who's creating content and stuff to get stuff out there and just have a central location for everything creative comments, you know, through torrents.
Maybe you could get it listed on the current comments website.
You got people to start contributing as well.
Because I imagine they'd be behind.
Well, the only catch with like torrents and stuff is you got to be careful with letting just any random person upload their own stuff.
You kind of have to make sure that they're actually going to be legit and you know, not just uploading whatever they want to.
You know, the dangers for that of content checker.
Yeah, so right now the only checks I have in place for content is basically trusted users and peer review.
That would work with a lot of peers, I imagine.
Or you get those scripts of Google users.
Well, I actually have the tracker.
It's up and running and the site itself isn't that bad.
It's a little lax for content right now because I haven't figured out how to.
I haven't perfected my script for auto uploading from when I actually snatched something from bash potter just to dump it straight on to it.
Once that gets worked out though, it'll be pretty good because I've got about 300 gigs of podcasts around.
Wow.
Yeah, I've got everything from HPR to everything HPR came from.
I've found chords to all the links sign so maybe at the hour.
I posted a link for the post.
Yeah, I've got the audio archive on.
I can do a one-handed version because I got to hit the push to talk.
If you don't like someone's just scored at the ice hockey, isn't it?
How's it going?
If you double-click the push to talk button that stays on.
You know, I saw that option in the setup. Where is that?
I thought I said it and said it, but I couldn't push it fast enough to get to the lock.
Actually, next scratch that it doesn't seem to be working for me.
Oh, it does, right?
Yeah, I just got to work it for me.
I just got to push it really quick.
Here's Popey. I wonder if he knows what's going on on Ubuntu.com.
Good evening.
Good evening.
We're not going to talk to you unless you tell us what Ubuntu is revealing in 42 hours.
If I did that, I'd lose my job.
Maybe that's what they're revealing.
Oh, no.
They're going to dunk Popey headfirst into a Thadamnare.
That's quite an elaborate setup, just to fire me.
I'll fall by his canonical.
It's why it's brilliant.
So I guess people have been speculating about what it is then?
Oh, just a little bit.
We're just trying to come up with the most stupidest wackiest ideas.
I suggested that Ubuntu is going to start using Windows 8.
It's the core.
Yeah, that's pretty good.
Just for this most stupid idiotic idea that would be out there.
I suggested that they were that canonicals just trying to play catch up with the rest of the big boys
and in the end, whatever they announce is going to be all that impressive.
I've heard that in a couple of times.
Unity 3D, where people need to wear 3D glasses to use their computer.
Haha, now I like that.
I think we ultimately decided it was a tablet.
Cool.
And was the consensus that that was a good idea or a bad idea if that was what it was.
Don't know, I thought I'd catch you off guard and you'd say yes, you're right.
Oops.
Yeah, I'm dumb, but I'm not that dumb.
I was hoping it was a set-top box.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
I don't like that as well.
I don't remember.
I don't remember.
I don't remember seeing some, um, I think it was OPMG Ubuntu story for the Ubuntu TV
and actually the Unity interface with the whole dash and, um, as a TV browsing thing.
That really worked for me.
That was, oh, that, that really could work if canonical are doing that.
That really could work.
Yeah, that's, that's still under development.
That's, that's not died.
Um, so that's still going on.
So yeah, it could be that.
Could it be more ways to, uh, send users information to third party companies?
And there it is.
I think it might be the sweepstake, I'm not.
Yeah.
Amazon vouchers.
But he has to sign up and do it through Ubuntu.
Yes.
I did see the, uh, a post on launch pad.
Was it yesterday or the day before?
Uh, some guy putting down that you couldn't, uh, search Amazon from the terminal or something.
Yeah.
Someone filed a bugging grip or something.
That's right.
Yeah, because the crap can't grab Amazon.
Uh, that's funny.
I'd like to see Ubuntu branded crisps.
What flavor?
And would they be brown?
Barbecue, of course.
And no, there'll be, uh, what is it?
They'll be, they'll be exactly shaped.
Or instead of the exact sort of, um, molded, wringled shape, they'll be like the three, um,
the three of it all holding hands.
Ubuntu, we're asking you to be the shape of the crisps.
They're doing quite a lot of things.
The monster.
Are there some monsters that would have been around the trim command room?
Yeah.
Only on Popeye's, uh, sideburns.
The monster monster.
Didn't they do like a dead spider flavor or something for a while?
I'm, uh, dropping off here for a little bit.
My wife's calling me.
So, uh, I'll be back later.
Say hi later later.
Say hi later later.
Say hi later.
Don't come back out of breath.
Sorry.
I was running around.
I was hoping that Ubuntu was, or canonical was going to announce that they were going to
set, send me another bag of Jordan almonds because the one I got for Christmas from my
life is almost out.
But my guess was either, either a set top box or a DLNA server on a phone that would, you know,
work like a set top box or maybe canonical would just leapfrog everybody and do a Google
glasses type thing and lead the market instead of following for a change.
Did you see the April fall that we did up out with Google Glass?
No.
Did you feel bad if we said no?
No, no.
Not many people did because it was right at the bottom of the Ubuntu homepage and not many
people saw it because it was only there for a day or two, but it was, um, it was a pair of
Ray bands that were, you know, Ubuntu glasses and there was, you could kind of make out that
there was some kind of dash or something reflected in the glasses.
But then you look a bit further and they're just hooked up to a car battery.
Now, another suggestion that came up was it's a tablet without a capacitive screen or even a
resistive screen.
You have to use a mouse with it because you could almost touch it.
Can almost touch us.
Yeah, that whole thing on the page so close you can almost touch it is, um, yeah, it's a
giant tease, isn't it?
Yeah, I think that's a clue.
It certainly was a giant tease for core nominal.
He brought it up about every 15 minutes.
What do you guys think it is now?
What do you guys think it is now?
Yeah, pretty funny.
Yeah, he's really, he really wants to find out what it is.
In fact, he's not on here now because he's on his way to your house puppy to get the information
out of you, I believe.
I did see him drop off just before I joined him.
Oh, what a shame.
Currently a car is speeding in its way from Lincoln to yours.
It's a tablet that involves this new thing.
Fingers are out for control.
You need to actually touch pens to interact with it.
So I've just ordered a pen for my Nexus 7 for doing graffiti.
Instead of using the on screen keyboard using the old palm pilot graffiti handwriting
recognition thing is so much better.
Really?
I thought that was over.
I always liked the new Android default.
The keyboard that comes as default now is why it's basically swipe, but it isn't.
Of course, I hate it.
I cannot type accurately on Android at all.
I don't know why.
Oh, what's the other one this?
Because you can't deal with freedom, Popeye.
We get it.
That's it.
Was it snap keys or something?
Yes, snap keys, SI has five areas you touch.
It's got two that are letters, a space in the center, and then two on the outside edge is the one
problem I found with that keyboard.
At least that I could find there was no settings that would allow you to move it up a little
bit on the screen, because depending on the mode you were in, it would actually get in
the way of the SIM key on some programs.
Ah, that would suck.
Now I went to try it and it wouldn't let me download it basically.
So I tried to sign up with my Nexus, and it just failed dismally.
So the website doesn't work on the Nexus, which is impressive.
But apparently, for the people who haven't noticed, whoever's doing the admin for this,
apparently the stream isn't working anymore.
So I don't know who's doing that.
Well, there was a ZHPR org got moved to the open speak by the server.
It's not being streamed from there, is it?
Because that would explain why.
Yeah, actually, I'm pretty sure it is.
I thought the stream's were set up.
Well, there's one from, in fact, it's just moved by by Perky.
Thank you.
They're going to keep moving back out.
Could somebody in the UK text Ken Fallon, please, and ask him to,
or I don't even know if those are both Ken.
They might even be Kevin Wischer, but somebody's got to actually type something
to activate them.
Because after about six hours, the server just kicks any connection that's, you know, inactive.
Could we just move them back in in six hours?
No, after six hours, it keeps moving them out about once every minute.
We went through this earlier.
Oh, I see.
It's either they go again.
And then P3 is this one.
Well, sugar.
So if somebody could...
Oh, yeah, that'll get a little quick.
Yeah, if somebody could give Ken Fallon a text, he put his...
or if someone in the local too, I don't know, Netherlands, I guess he's that.
But he put his cell number in the mumble chat.
And I think I'll pop out here and look for Kevin Wischer,
because I know he's at least listening in the lounge.
I think he is.
I know the stream from our site is working okay.
Paste that link in DRC or somewhere.
And I can paste it in DRC.
Well, the streams haven't been affected.
They're still all up and going.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, because they're all pointed at the ZHPR MP3 and ZHPR org.
Yeah, the streams are just mirroring these two streams.
So, you know, wherever these two streams go, that's where all the mirrors are going to go.
Yeah, the new radio is still working.
Yeah, I've been typing, you know, just periods into that every once in a while.
So, is everyone doing tonight?
Everybody have a good new year in the UK?
Meh.
Yeah, reasonable.
Dinner time here.
Is that Dan?
I hear Dan's voice.
Yeah, hi.
Hi, George. How's it going?
Pretty good, man.
What's up?
Yeah, I'm good.
I'm good.
Um, yeah.
Yeah, wait, it's officially 2013 now in the UK.
So, feels like the same.
Technically speaking, I'm from the future.
It's actually 2020, 2014.
And I've got good news for you.
2013, the world doesn't end all year.
The world doesn't end.
You've got a whole year.
It's cool.
That's good.
But the Chinese take over.
Yeah.
You mean they happen already?
Yeah.
The correct answer would be the Irish.
Apparently, they have been planning and plotting world domination for years.
It just has been cleverly disguised as, you know, hanging out in pubs and drinking.
That's very well discussed.
No, what it actually is.
You're right about the Irish.
You know, what it is.
It's all those, um, the drawing of corporate headquarters for tax reasons into Ireland.
They'll just suddenly flip the switch and say,
how Ireland is the centre of the universe, you know.
I'd rather hang out at the Irish pubs.
I think I can handle that if Ireland is the centre of the universe, to be honest.
I think it's jokes like that when you kind of realise, um, at some point,
you kind of better step back before you start off ending people.
That's all the weird things.
Hello.
Little Irish city.
No, what was the thing recently from North Korea?
They had found the unicorn layer.
That sounds about right.
Um, and I'm not actually making this up, but there was official state report.
They found the unicorn layer where one of their great leaders,
uh, and great leaders are, of course, in quotes, um, had, uh,
uh, found, you know, drank the unicorn blood or whatever.
And that's why they became like awesome, awesome.
I, it was really weird, but they like found where the unicorn place was.
They have incredible news over there.
I've got to give them that.
Um, you know, like that sounds like four Chan is doing the news.
Uh, is that what is really going on with the canonical?
They're announcing they've found the unicorn layer.
You know what it is?
You know what it is.
They've actually been watching.
They've gotten confused.
They've got a bootleg copy of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
They've thought that's actually fact.
There's Voldemort out in the, the Forbidden Forest,
eating the unicorn, drinking the unicorn blood.
Mm-hmm.
Now, the Ubuntu Unicorn releases it for years.
Not that long.
I'm using Red Star Linux here, which is the North Korean version.
I'm only kidding.
There's a red flag.
Linux, which is Chinese.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to nominate when, uh, canonical finally gets back around the W's
to go with, uh, Winking Wallaby.
Is there a new name?
I don't think that's going to happen.
So is that Winking?
I don't think Red Star is any updates anymore.
And last time I thought posted was like on some Russian newspaper,
like five years ago.
You might see a bit of the Ubuntu SS release.
That's, that's got a, I mean, I don't know.
They could have went for a retro feeling launching in Germany, you know?
Um, no.
Yeah.
I know.
I know.
I'm not going to go a bit more, but more launching, got salty semen, you know?
That's not all that my work to lot better when they had the naked people on the front of the
Ubuntu discs.
Mm hmm.
That was eight years ago.
People don't forget those naked people.
No, they don't do that.
Made an impression.
Actually, seeing the, seeing the Ubuntu book in a, in the library was the first
exposure I had to it.
And it had like, you know, the naked people.
Wow.
They're not actually naked.
I wouldn't know.
Are those three naked people still friends?
You know, what are they up to now?
Does anyone know?
They're on a commune down in that.
That's what, that's what I've been doing in November of the first.
I've got a documentary that I've been doing at least.
Where are they now?
Those naked people.
That's what it is.
Maybe.
Behind the source code.
How do they miss these naked people?
And I, I was on draper, uh, dapper Drake.
Now, this predates that.
It was the very first release.
Water, water.
Oh, okay.
And it only lasted one release.
There's, there's a, a succession of questionable decisions that have been made throughout the life
of Ubuntu.
And, um, yeah, that was probably the first one.
Naked people lands for unity?
Yeah, exactly.
I was going to say unity and naked people.
And there was a spatial windows for Nautilus, which got everyone riled.
The prong winds.
I just got a button instead of a boss key.
It's like a little lens.
There is actually a poem lens.
To stand up for unity.
I actually like unity.
Yeah, I have to say actually.
I was kind of down on unity until, until before.
Until before, I was really surprised.
I was seriously surprised.
I don't know what, it felt like a lot of the, the surface, a lot of the compass stuff that
suddenly became snappy and responsive and, and all that.
It made a hell of a difference.
And I was like, oh, well, actually, unit is actually pretty darn good.
Yeah, I don't know what that was down to, whether that was unity or compass or just better video
drivers or, you know, a combination of everything.
I'm not sure.
I think that's, that's mostly what it was actually.
It was just compass, working so much smoother.
And that, it's amazing.
The difference that makes to the impression you get when you press a button.
It doesn't take like three seconds to activate.
And it is smooth and not jerky and not delayed and stuff like that.
It's amazing.
The difference.
And the impression you get over that.
I still get that on 12x4.
Any keyboard users like myself that noticed how much keyboard support there is in unity?
Yeah, which is why whenever someone says to me, oh, unity, it's a tablet operating system.
Why are you putting a tablet operating system on my computer?
You know, it's just crap, really.
Even how many keyboard shortcuts there are, as they were way it was designed for a tablet.
There's a button you can press to actually show the, like an overlay of keyboard shortcuts, isn't that?
Yeah, the Windows key.
Well, I have to say, I did disable the alt back space or alt left arrow, I mean,
because every time I'm in Firefox, it would pop something up.
Yeah, that's annoying.
I still get oozing eyes when I enable the cube.
But that's kind of broken in 12x4 and video I've been reusing.
It flashes and you can't move one to the other with the keyboard.
The compass cube?
Yeah, the compass cube.
I just read the guy that's doing that is kind of giving up on it.
He was like the last guy and it's over now.
Yeah, in 12x4, it's there.
Are you going to enable it?
Yeah, canonical, apparently, employed the one single compass developer and they let it go.
Sam Spellsbury works for canonical or are you still in him?
Not anymore.
Yeah.
I did enjoy that.
Yeah, he left about a month ago.
I must have missed that.
He lives in Australia and he's really young as well.
Yeah, he's doing a law degree.
But he was just spreading himself so thin.
He was studying during the day and then coding during the night and it just wasn't.
It's not a good way to live your life like that.
I think there's a lot of these environments that used to work with compass and they've all
went on to their own compositing and all that and their own hardware acceleration.
As far as I'm aware, the last one that I hold out that's still using compass was Unity.
But I get that wrong.
Yeah, so Unity is a compass plugin and we're using Compass 0.9 which is the C++ port of
his.
And there are still people who use Compass 0.8 which is the old C version of Compass.
And so the two are kind of running in parallel.
It's almost like 0.9 is a fork of 0.8 and some people who still maintain 0.8 kind of look
at 0.9 with the origin because Sam did the port to C++ then was employed by canonical and
started working on Compass for canonical and everyone decided that well that's a fork.
We don't want to go in that direction.
We'll stay on 0.8.
So you'll find we're on 0.9 and everyone else is on 0.8.
Just along with the old eyes that enhanced zoom desktop or whatever.
As long as you keep that, I'll be happy.
That is a big accessibility feature.
I don't even get that in KDE with KW.
Speaking of keeping features, the whole Nautilus removing split windows.
Seriously.
Why?
Why did they do that?
Why?
I don't get that.
I get if they don't add things in because it's extra work that it's extra things on the priorities
and needed port things.
I get all that.
But actually something that's already been ported already works.
It's not in anyone's way.
Why would you want to remove it?
I don't understand.
So the usual argument that we give for removing code and we've been slated for removing stuff
is that it's a maintenance burden.
It's a maintenance overhead.
Someone has to care for that code.
Even if it was written and then left and nobody touched it.
Then the code may rot or when we add new features to Unity or add new features,
or whatever, then someone has to take care of that piece of code that does whatever that feature is.
So someone always has to look after that feature.
That's the argument we usually give.
And we got slated because we removed Dodge windows, the thing where you move a window to the launcher
and the launcher kind of height moves out the way as you move a window towards it.
And we got absolutely panned.
And we still get panned now when people say, you know, what would you like to see in the Ubuntu?
Their answer is bring back Dodge windows.
But when we tested that with average people, like normal people, they hated it.
They couldn't get on with it.
And they're like, oh, where did the launcher go?
And they couldn't figure out that the launcher hit because they put a window near the launcher.
This damn norm easy.
Hey guys, speaking of supporting features and not letting them drop out,
I don't think we're going to be able to keep our streams from getting booted.
They keep getting booted about every minute down to the root channel.
So I'm wondering if you guys mind if we kind of all just move into the root channel and continue it there
because otherwise I'm going to have to keep dragging these things as they break.
Yeah.
So if you open speak that channel.
Sure.
Yep. Just double click on open speak and you'll move in there.
No way. That's too much work.
Let's go.
I'm quite glad someone said double click on that because I mean,
I'm on the netbook here, as I said, and I'm fully maximized.
And I can't see the flow of the user list.
So I was trying to like touch.
Trust me if I can name by getting my TA right near the bottom of the list.
I was trying to drag it up and it wouldn't drag.
Oh, come on.
It's only dropped myself halfway up the list.
Yeah, I guess.
Probably I'm not authenticated.
Maybe that's why I can't move there.
I'm going to say there's two things I've learned about Bumble today.
One is double clicking to move channel and the other one is double tapping on the push to talk button to hold it down.
I just got the, I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
Ultimately turn it on.
I'm using the mute button on my mic to turn it off.
Oh, I knew it.
I didn't know it.
Coming from the York double tapping means something else.
Hey, double tapping also also can help kill zombies.
Yes.
So true.
Rule number two double tapping.
What if it was zombie apocalypse helps make sure they're dead.
You know what?
A little, a little prop step into it actually.
One of the things that I initially was against, but I can see it being really handy for normal computer users.
Not like for us is the whole single window thing.
So if you've got like Firefox open, you've got a web page open.
You click Firefox again.
It doesn't open a new window.
It just reopens the same window that you were already at.
You need to sort of right click and slide you window.
That's, I mean, for people like my mom and dad, that is a fantastic idea.
It really is.
Wait, what, what is it?
I'm not.
It's not or without your accent.
It's safe without your accent.
Yeah.
Sir.
Hello.
Hello.
It's a single instance of an application.
It's a single instance.
Yeah.
So that if you click on like fire, if you already got say Firefox already open and you click on Firefox again.
Normally, under most environments, it would open a new Firefox window.
Ubuntu doesn't do that.
Ubuntu just refocuses the existing Firefox window rather than open a new one.
To be fair, most docs have always worked that way.
If you used AWN or Docky or one of those, they used to do that anyway, I think.
Given Unity was written by the guys who made Docky and AWN, that's not really surprising.
Well, how are you going?
Yeah, as I say, that's something.
When I switch back to Ubuntu with Unity, that's something that kind of throws me off initially.
But it's actually a really good idea to be fair.
It's a really good idea for normal people, for non techies.
It is a really good idea.
Yeah, it's a good idea, honestly.
Actually, that was one of the first things I noticed.
My mum, when I first gave her an Ubuntu computer, and it was running a pre-unity release, whatever that was.
And I would go around her house and maybe like a thousand Chrome windows open,
because she just always clicks the Chrome icon in the panel.
And now, she's clicked Chrome and gets all tabbed to the right window.
So all that pain was worth it, just for my mum.
It's good everyone else.
So now we know where that feature was brought in.
Yeah, so basically Ubuntu is being written by all the Ubuntu developers' mothers.
Ultimately, you know.
You know, to be fair, that's the default in GNOME Shell as well.
Well, that's not surprising, because GNOME Shell copied Unity.
Ooh, that's nasty.
Hey, I hear Unity is close to Mac.
But I haven't used a Mac enough to know.
Is it that close?
Yeah, it's pretty similar in many ways, yeah.
It's got a lot of the same kinds of feeling conventions.
Then I must be a hybrid, because I move those controls to the right.
Now, they belong on the left.
They've always belonged on the left.
That's one thing Linux has been wrong on for a long time.
That's the only thing, but it's on the left.
Now, that's the Mac.
That's the Mac.
That's the Mac.
That's the Mac that I used to evangelize OSX before moving.
I never evangelized anything.
I talked about it.
I've never either evangelized or used OSX, and I think you're right.
Actually, the one I always do is always move the closed window to the left.
Because that way, if you're trying to minimize or maximize the window,
you weren't going to close it by accident.
Oh, wow, that's a good idea, because I've done that before,
and I've thought to myself, that's stupid.
But I could not think of how to fix it.
That's a great idea.
That has a really good idea.
Not clothed to you.
Do you still think it's a good idea to put all apps in just a giant bucket
and have to wait through that list?
Yes.
Yes, I do.
I can't stand application categories.
They're useless.
I can't...
I can never agree on what category...
I mean, how many times have I looked for EMAX in something logical,
like, you know, I don't know, office application?
Because you write text into it.
And it's in, like, system utilities or something.
I mean, I can never figure out where these things are.
Terminal.
Where do you find terminal in system or utilities or developer tools?
I hate...
It's often an accessory resource.
I hate a...
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
It's a space and just type console.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's what I do, too.
But I mean, like, when you're trying to use the application menu
or browse what applications you've got,
it's really difficult when you have categories.
No, I had to say that the categories, I think,
are one of the best things ever.
I even invented them on every Windows machine.
I used to have to admin, and when I came to Linux,
I found them.
They're completely arbitrary, though.
A lot, too.
Right.
Well, that's what I was going to say.
It's not only for the OSX side of things.
You've got no clue how bad that kind of stuff is
on the Windows side of things.
Try saying down to a Windows machine for about half an hour
dig through their program structure.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You just press the whole window fills up with crap.
You can't even read.
It's not even an alphabetical order.
But what have you done?
You just press Super, and then you type what you want.
The problem with categories is that there's a folder called
accessories.
That's where the root of the problem is.
No, there's more.
Because I mean, really, like console or terminal,
whatever you use, and EMACs, particularly,
they always get into different categories,
depending on what distribution you use.
I can never figure it out.
Here's the one that gets me.
Calculator is an accessories, mostly the time.
A calculator to me is an office app.
I mean, that's not really an accessory.
And then, like, a file manager is in either accessory
or system tools or someplace else.
Yeah.
It gets really weird.
But you can edit the menu and put it anywhere you want, though.
Well, the one that can choose an extent.
Will that withstand updates and stuff?
Because if you go in and like alter your desktop file
or something like that, then it might not, you know,
if you go and update it later on, then it might get its little
tags restored.
Yeah, you have to go to the .app file to actually do that.
And then you're editing it for the whole system,
not just for your desktop.
And then you can actually have problems
with doing your updating.
The one annoys me on some.
But I've noticed that with XFC,
I think possibly Zubuntu and Mint,
is the distinction they put into network.
I mean, to me, network is like,
this admin type stuff around networking, basically.
Then there should be a category called internal net
where you've got your email client,
your web browser, all that type of stuff.
But they don't have it on net.
They have network.
And network is where you find your web browser,
your email and stuff like that.
Why?
I don't get that at all.
I really don't.
That's that's reasonably historical.
I mean, God, I remember what I used to run black box
and trying to find all that stuff was insane anyway.
Yeah, but at least in flux box,
you can edit your own menus.
And that really does work.
I mean, that's a beautiful system.
You come up with your menu once
and you port it to your, you know,
you just inherit it every time you update.
It's great.
Well, that's the way it is in Debian, though, isn't it?
Well, that's one advantage of open box.
I don't know.
I suppose that's the advantage of open box.
But the disadvantage is when you install something,
you have to go to member,
go edit the menu and add that on.
Or if you remove something,
then you've got to remember,
go and edit the menu,
and take that out of the menu.
But at least you can choose where it goes in the menu.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean,
trying to agree with Class U that categories
are nonsensical these days,
when all I need to do is press a button
and type the first couple of characters
of the thing I want,
and I get it.
So, you know, press super on Unity
and type TE and I get terminal.
On Windows, I press super
and I type PU and I find Pussy.
You know, they're very,
and the alt space on OS 10
and I swipe to the side on an iPhone.
They're all very similar.
They're all, they're all,
yes, sorry.
They're all very similar ways of finding stuff.
If you know the name or some metadata
that's in the desktop file,
but where I find a problem is on Unity,
if I think I'm idle and I want to play a game,
I don't know which game I want to play.
I want to play A game
and I know this system has a lot of games installed on it.
And this is pretty steam,
so I didn't have a front end to all my games.
I just had to hit the dash
and then try and find a game
by scrolling through a load of obscure icons.
Click about eight times
to get to the category of games.
I mean, it's still possible to filter on games.
But even then, it's still a horrible way to find them.
I mean, it's a very singular use case.
You don't often sit there and think,
hmm, I'd like to run a multimedia app,
but I don't know which one.
It really only happens with games.
I don't know any other category where you get that.
Well, just to say I installed mumble
and mumble ended up in internet instead of sounded video.
Well, that's where I was.
I expected to be as in internet,
not in sound and video,
but that's what it's supposed to mean.
Well, the problem is that arbitrarily
things are put into categories
instead of asking the user,
what category you want to put this in.
True.
I think internet was a compromise
because if you ask mumble developers,
they would say it belongs in games.
I don't want to say it belongs in games.
I don't want to say,
I fired up a k-writer on here
and just type game.
I'm pretty sure I got a list of all the games available on my system.
But I mean, I don't want to spend a whole day on install
and trying to categorize every app on my machine, you know.
Yeah, anytime you have to type something
and I really destroy the discoverability,
you have to know what you're looking for
and then set for it.
But one of the things that annoys me,
I think there might be a walk around,
but I'm curious as to why it does this on the Ubuntu Dash.
This will work.
We can discover everything with 20 and 26 tries.
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
I'm curious why it does this.
When you type in, say for example,
TER to get a terminal or terminate or something
and then you close the door,
you click on terminate and you open that.
And you go back half an hour later to open up something else.
And already the previous thing you search for,
TER, it's already there.
And it's already filtered.
Why does that not be set back to a blank Dash again?
That's a good question.
You'd have to ask someone in the design team.
I'm not sure actually.
Is that one of the killer things
that drove me absolutely bonkers with Unity?
I can accept a lot of things in Unity.
But that was one of the things that,
why is that?
I don't get that.
It's almost like it's stuck on that menu item that you're last hoping.
At which level?
I know that's the answer to this one.
People who have been using Linux for a while,
usually if they find themselves doing repetitive tasks,
they write a script.
But Ubuntu is for new users,
so they just do it manually again and again.
Yeah, it's weird.
I've not really thought about it like that.
Because I just also,
if something is in that search field,
I just press escape and it goes away
and then I type something else.
Or I start typing.
Because you don't actually have to remove what's in there.
If you just press super and it's got TER already in there,
if you just press super and then start typing, you know, G-edit,
it will just over type because the text is already selected.
So it actually doesn't matter that it's pre-filled in.
It's going to over type it.
The attempt is to get a recently used list quickly, right?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, it always shows you the recently used applications anyway,
but like the most recently used applications.
I'm not sure, I guess the rationale is,
well, if you're going to type,
if you're going to hit the super key and type something,
why don't we just leave the thing that was there before?
Because you're going to type something anyway,
and you might type the thing that you type,
the last time you open the dash,
which for me actually happens a lot,
because I tend to run the same like two things from the dash.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And you don't have to pretend I was serious.
I was only taking a dig.
Go for it.
Yeah, I do remember everyone else.
I do remember reading some,
like 10 things to do after you install,
like I've been to 12 or 4 or something,
article ages ago.
Raking those articles.
Well, one of them was a little work around
to actually fix that very thing,
to automatically reset that dash back to blank again.
That was one of the things that they did in that article.
Wow.
As much as I sort of hate those articles,
I've actually, I have to be honest and say that I've,
like I never find the whole article useful,
but quite often I'll find like one good idea in the whole thing.
But I always read them knowing that they're very individual.
You know, it's just like one person saying,
hey, here's what I do after I do the default install of such and such.
Yeah, it is really individual.
I'm a user.
The things I do all the time,
I make a hotkey shortcut for.
And that seems to be going by the wayside.
I mean, Mint 14 came out with the,
the ability to add custom shortcuts broken.
And it still hasn't been assigned as a bug.
That tells me, you know,
what priority us old keyboard shortcut users have.
Yeah, go back to Fluxbox or whatever you said.
Black box, I guess is what you said.
Yeah, choose me.
If Fluxbox, Black box, same thing.
Fluxbox actually had a little nice little,
or what you might call it,
control bar down the bar.
Yeah, one of the things that I couldn't
love without in Ubuntu is synaptic.
It's like the software center is just so slow.
It's seriously slow.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's fast.
You're an expert.
No, this was even on the laptop as well.
It's faster than the software store.
It's faster when you're searching for stuff.
It's really fast there.
Oh, really?
Yes.
But the installing of it.
Oh, my God.
No, give me an Arctic.
Tent into it.
Oh!
Installing.
Yeah, if you're used to synaptic,
the new stuff is horrible.
This is a web.
Have you taken a look at any of the mints they have?
They've taken synaptic right out of favor.
It has so many,
what do they call the orphaned packages?
At least I synoped synaptic for orphaned packages
and automatically removable and stuff like that.
And they just fill up crazy on mint distros.
Yes, they do.
I have this theory that one of the reasons people think
some of the things in Ubuntu is slow.
And this doesn't just apply to Ubuntu software center.
But some of the things as well is that we don't give a huge amount of feedback
while it's doing something.
You get a bouncy thing or you get a percentage bar going across.
But you don't get a,
now I'm unpacking this.
Now I'm installing that.
Now I'm getting the dependency.
Now I'm doing this.
Now I'm doing that.
That you get,
if you did apt get install on a terminal, for example.
Whereas most of the other like pro tools,
if you want to call them that like synaptic,
give you verbose output when they're doing stuff.
So you know that it's constantly doing stuff.
You know there's something happening.
You know it's updating your grub,
or you know that it's building your kernel modules,
or doing whatever it's doing.
Whereas software center just goes,
yeah, I'm doing something.
And you get an orange bar that moves across the screen.
And I think that's one of the reasons why people perceive
that Ubuntu is slower.
Because I'm pretty sure if you timed on a clean system,
apt get install, you know,
through bar bars game.
And you did exactly the same thing in Ubuntu software center.
Given it's using apt behind the scenes,
it should be doing exactly the same thing.
Well, yeah, that's, that's, that's fair enough.
But I would see, however,
I would see that one of the dome falls
that I found to the software center
was it only does one at a time.
A few of them started.
No, no, no.
Several times.
You can do multiple.
You can do multiple.
Right.
I only saw it installing.
You can queue them up essentially.
But it looked like it was only doing one at a time.
Yes.
Okay, no.
But there's so does apt get.
If you do apt get install food,
and that's running,
and then you think,
oh yeah, I also wanted bar and bars.
In another terminal,
you type apt get install bar bars,
it will say, no, I can't get a lock.
I have to wait for the other one to finish first.
And that's effectively what software center is doing.
Right.
Right.
I may be fair enough.
Every pack of things.
There's a problem.
Look at, you know,
the problem,
the door I had back in the day
where people were complaining about
young being such a slow piece of shit.
Yeah.
And the developers just kept defending it
until they decided to finally fix the fucking problem
instead of defending the problem.
Not to say that my distribution is better than anyone else's,
but I don't have that problem with Slack builds,
compiling from source,
just kind of works as many times as you want.
I'll just say my personal experience.
My personal experience with software center
is that when I do try to install a package,
generally the GUI goes completely unresponsive
for quite a long time before it even shows a bar or anything.
And there's no way to search for anything.
And, you know, but personally,
I'd rather use app anyways.
That's what I was going to say about the software center.
Once you start installing that first app,
and maybe even the more apps you're installing,
as you're looking for other things,
that software center seems to slow down to a crawl,
even on very fast machines that I've used.
Yeah, I've noticed that as well.
And actually, the upside to the software center
is it's really nice to actually search for things.
If you're not installing anything, it's really nice.
Reviews and things like that.
It is really well laid out.
It could be a lot faster.
Though the thing there is,
it seems like everyone wants to give the credit
to canonical for the software center when,
you know, I can remember when Mint had features like that
before canonical even thought of putting those in.
It's like, come on guys.
Didn't, like, what was it?
Lenders.
Didn't have, they had the clock and clock and run
before, before Mint even had that.
Yeah, Lenders, Lend Spire also had some of that as well, so.
How many here ran Mint for the first time?
Used their update manager,
and thought it crashed when it was done.
It just closes.
Honestly, I had to say any time I hear like,
oh, this distro did this first or whatever.
You're not the great thing about open source
is the ability to poach great ideas.
It makes everything better, don't you think?
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
Yep, totally.
Oh, I agree with that, but I also, you know,
buy into the concept of giving credit.
Actually, there's a lot of the things that Mint did,
especially around the update manager
with like grading the upgrades or the updates.
So you could look at that and say,
like a level one, right?
Okay, that's the Mint team.
Level two has been like tested and verified
by the Mint team or something.
Three is still safe.
Four is a bit more risky and five.
Well, if you're like your ass held over the fire,
it might work, you know?
So you can actually filter out different things
rather than with Synaptic or something.
You just click, let it refresh all,
and update all, and install,
and some of it might not quite work.
So you're comparing Mint to Debbie,
or Ubuntu, where the repositories
are better groomed, so to speak.
Oh, yes, exactly.
Hey, what about, I use Update Manager,
really for only one reason over Synaptic
when I want to see a little bit information on the update.
That comes over the source repository, yes?
Or, you know what I mean?
What the update is for?
Information, the extra information?
Yes, exactly.
It comes from a separate server,
ChangeLogs.obuntu.com, I think.
Okay, I thought it was...
One of the distros enabled the source code
or something to get it, and it was there.
And I thought that Revas involved somehow.
Well, the change logs always available
in the source repositories for anything
that's based on a devian distribution.
Yeah.
But update manager is much quicker,
at least for us non-developers.
Well, the thing is, we split out the change logs
and put them on ChangeLogs.obuntu.com
because whilst you're right,
the change logs are in the source tab.
It would take a long time for Update Manager
to go and get the source tab and unpack the change log from it.
Okay, there's no real mechanism to do that
in Synaptic, right?
I don't know, I haven't used Synaptic for years.
Isn't most of that actually controlled
by what's placed in the...
or got, I can't remember the name of the file
that's under the devian directory in the source code.
But if I remember correctly,
you get basic descriptions, changes,
and everything else,
you can be close to the package, right?
Yeah, in the devian directory,
there's a file called ChangeLog.
And that's actually the file that we're talking about.
But the problem is that in a system
where you've just booted your machine
and Update Manager wakes up and says,
hey, there's a whole load of updates.
At that point, you haven't actually downloaded anything.
You haven't downloaded the devs that contain the binary,
which also have the change log in them.
And you certainly haven't got the source packages downloaded either.
So if you want to see quickly what the changes were
before you download and install stuff,
that's why we put them on a separate HTTP accessible server.
And all Update Manager does is just get the change log
over HTTP as a separate unpacked piece of text from that website.
Now, that's really cool.
That is, you know,
I've been using AppGet, AppCation,
all that ever since I started with devian about eight years ago.
And I didn't even realize that existed.
I need to jump in real quick,
so I already interrupt two quick things.
I got a suggestion from our RSC
and over email that earlier we suggested
if people wanted to stream over like a mobile device,
a phone or something,
that the browser was a good choice for that.
And while it is, I guess it can be interrupted.
And when AMP does not,
it'll run in the background if you get a phone call or something.
So that's apparently works well and is a better choice.
And the other thing is we just missed a,
by nine minutes,
we've just been saying happy new years to the next time zone.
So the new burs are already being missed.
So happy new year to everyone who just turned the date
10 minutes ago and back to,
back to software management.
Sorry guys.
The next,
isn't the next time zone,
and starting in the Atlantic.
So is there anyone in the actual next time zone?
Iceland, maybe.
Iceland's last one.
Yeah, either that or someone on a boat somewhere.
The guy that I got him over the hours.
So.
Christmas Island.
Can body or some more.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Christmas Island as like 12 hours ago,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Christmas Island.
Christmas Island.
If you go to timeandate.com,
it's like world clock.
There's nowhere that on that page that anyone has 0,0 colon
on as their time.
Is that the one that changed their time zone specifically for that?
The next ones to go will be in 50 minutes and it will be Rio,
Dijonero, Sao Paulo, Brasilia, Montevideo.
Yeah, I just read the first one, it's like an idiot.
Sorry.
Ha! Apology accepted.
Yeah, and on the Ubuntu that I've installed thing, the way that I can, I think of it,
as I've always, I think the more you use Linux, the more you've got a stock list of things
you always install, every single time that you, like a fresh install of whatever
distro you use, you've got a set list of applications that you always install.
Audacity.
Yeah, VLC and audacious and yeah, so what I do that is like a pseudo-app get install and then I
just, all these things rhyme off it up ahead, there's that in whatever order that doesn't,
it doesn't really matter, but if it's something I'm actually searching for that I don't know
the spelling of that particular app, the way it's expecting it, I'll then use Synaptic,
but if I'm actually browsing for something and I don't know what I'm looking for,
and I'm just sort of poking around and seeing what's around, then the software sent
on the Ubuntu is really nice for that.
Some of us still use aptitude, the InCurses version.
Wow, well that's good for headless systems.
How about you select, anybody use decelux still?
Yeah, show your age now.
I actually would keep a page on my wiki that would have, you know, the commands I need to run
after I didn't install to install a lot of the common desktop apps and different things I'd
need to, I'd want to install, but the problem was is that over time those lists would be corrupted
and the names of the packages would change and so on, and so I had to keep it up to date,
and it would sometimes lead to me installing stuff that was no longer supported.
So there's another useful thing that you get with software center,
it'll synchronize packages between your systems.
So if you've got a desktop and you've got a bunch of packages on it,
it'll synchronize the list of packages you have out installed up to Ubuntu 1,
and then you go out and buy a laptop, you can re-synchronize those down,
so it'll re-install all those same packages again.
Well, there's the Amazon command to do that, get selection is it, and set selection or something?
Yeah, but it's not wise to do that.
Yeah, because that's interesting, because I can, especially if you've got the different versions,
you can seriously screw systems up, and I've done that before.
Get selection and set selection, the problem with doing that is you force the system to think
that all of those packages are manually installed by you, so they don't get auto removed when
you remove a package that needs one of them, which is a bit, there is another way to do it,
and I can't remember how you do it. There's some apt magic that does it in a nicer way,
but I can never remember how you do it.
I was always wondering how they do that, and why say a mid repository sits there with a bunch of
orphaned dependencies, basically, right?
Well, one of the things in Synaptic is you've got set and get markings list,
and that just basically takes like a little text file and keeps a note of
this application's marked as installed, and this one's marked as removed, and all that.
You can save that, and one system, put it in Dropbox, or it'll be one or whatever,
install your new system, and then open that file again, and set those markings,
then apply. You can do that.
The DPKG set selection and get selection does work. I use it all the time. You just have to be
careful when you implement it. Usually, I'll do an install with almost nothing on it,
and then write all the package lists, and then do a apt get deselect update, and that will
put all the or deselect dash upgrade. I'm sorry, and that'll fix all the packages and the dependencies.
I've also seen where people will just do a dump of all the names of packages installed,
and then just kind of cut off the extensions on all of them, and then pipe that back into a machine.
That's actually kind of the way I do it, because I build all mine from like a
a bare bones installer that just has like X and just a light window manager,
and then I build everything else by, you know, going through and having a response
script that actually just goes into installs all the packages that I need.
Yeah, I certainly do all that from memory. It's on the very first once I do the initial
install, and then do all the updates from that fresh install. The first thing I do is basically open
up a terminal, and see the app getting it. It's just whatever comes off the top of my head,
right, audacious VLC, and usually I'll get to the point where I'm looking at the list, going
if I miss anything. I probably have, but I'll take it from now, and then when it's installing,
and it's taking like half an hour to build everything, and deep-package everything, and do it,
it's like I'm looking at that, going right, hang on, I forgot that, and now I've got that
to add, I've got that to add, I've got then it, open up another terminal, and just get that
command ready to hit as soon as that one's finished. You could make a text file with all the
communist packages in them, and then use that whenever you reinstall, you know, so you have that ready.
That's exactly what I do. That's what I'm soul-like, and remember what I'm supposed to put back in.
Well, and I'll tell you the trick of the way I did it, and actually build that text file,
was when I went through one time, and actually was installing packages manually,
I just dumped my command history out to another file, and then edited it and built a list from that.
You know, the one thing that drives me not so about that, is when you switch to a different system,
and I mean, I'm using focus writer now, and when you switch to a distribution that doesn't have
focus writer, and that's in that list, it's like halfway through the list, it gets to that point,
and goes, I don't know, I don't have this list, and it just won't do anything beyond that. You have to
actually go back in and remove that one thing that it doesn't have, and then run the command again,
it's like, can you not run the full thing, and then put an error log at the end saying,
like, we've installed everything, but that's one, we could define that, so we could do install that,
but we've done everything else, you know, can it not do that?
Well, shouldn't you, I know, like, jump systems, I can do a skip broken,
is there any kind of option like that on the nebby inside of things?
Possibly, I'll need to look at it that way, I'm sober.
I'm on conspiring, actually, to be fair, but yeah, that is debbie and weezy,
but I should probably look at it that, but yeah, that is actually quite annoying when you list a
whole lot of things, and it's got one that it can't find, and it just destroys the lot because
it can't find that particular one. It's like, can you not just do the whole lot and mess that one out?
That would be the sensible thing, but no, you could need to do that.
Well, every time I do a new install of, I have one partition that's met in the other one that's
arched, and basically I put the same software back, and when it fails, it fails, and let's me know
that I've got to edit that text file, but it's just quicker than having to remember,
is it spelt this way or spelt the other way? I just got it on a text file, so I don't have to
remember how to spell it. Speaking of spelling, that's one thing that Linux, that's just so wonderful
about Linux when you tab complete and determine, so you don't have to keep typing the whole thing and
making sure it's spelt properly. That is just amazing. The day that I found that is that
just blew me away, it's like Windows doesn't have that. That's just, that's incredible.
That's bad for you though, isn't it? I don't get it. Sorry.
I don't get a tab complete about two releases ago, and it saved me trying to tab complete and
have it fail every time for about six years. I want to start using tab completion in IRC more.
They realize it works in the terminal, but they just seem to be incompetent on using it in IRC.
Another great one is Control-Off, a reverse look-up of your fast history. If you use
your type to command like three days ago, and you can't remember what it was, then you can
Control-Off, start typing the command, and then scroll through them. That's really cool.
No, I didn't know. I always try to scroll out.
Yeah, it's really good. Some people don't know that you can actually hit
Control-Off multiple times to go back even further in your history.
Right, that's next, next, next, yes. One I've been using a lot is Meta, and then period to insert
the last argument on the last command, and you can hit that over and over again to go back
through the arguments on the previous commands. How many clothes are terminal with Control-D?
Oh, yeah. I do. All the time.
Yeah, I think that makes you an old timer, I think.
Or a screen user, because screen, it's Control-Off, D to disconnect, and then Control-D is
pretty natural to shut down the next one.
You know, it's amazing the things that you learn as just second nature of a Linux user,
and then you go back to Windows and it doesn't have it, and it just drives you nuts.
Exactly. The one that catches me is I rely on, I open almost all of my applications by
right-clicking on the desktop, and I expect whatever window manager or desktop environment,
I expect my apps menu to appear there, and that it doesn't on Windows.
I'm like, ah, but then I can start menu again. Why don't you do that? I just don't get it.
What drives me nuts about Windows is when I go back, and there's so much advertising everywhere.
Yeah, I'm saying nothing.
And Bern at Bern at CD or something like that. Like, what? I have to go buy something.
Is that the announcement? It's advertising in Ubuntu, and that's why you can't say anything.
I'm going to categorically say, right now. What a pain.
No, but I'm asking.
Hey, I mean, there's, I mean, there'll be the advertising, but then there'll be just all these
little pop-ups that keep on popping up over, like, you know, would you like to do this, or this,
or did you want to do this? And you just don't get that in Linux.
And over it, as you can know, from from from from January from this announcement, from the next
Ubuntu onwards, you'll no longer be able to log in to your normal account. You need to log in via Facebook.
Hey, speaking of like the advertisements and stuff in Windows, this for for method Dan,
I know Fab went on a rant several weeks ago about how I think it was the Dell's cost more
with the with Ubuntu on them with Linux on the time. Then that's less than 24 hours they did.
Yeah, well, that's because of the crapware that all that crapware subsidizes the Windows install.
Yeah, to be honest, I did think of that, but sometimes it's just hard to get a word in,
so I don't worry about it. Well, it's easy to let other people do that.
So what actually happens, right, is Dell, they'll have this internal build system called fish,
which is the system that, yeah, fish, sorry. No, it's a positive reaction. We have to use push to
left. And we we have to provide an image that that integrates with fish, which is the thing that
that that deploys images onto laptops that you buy or machines you buy from Dell. So we had to
provide an image, right? And all of this stuff, all of the all of the fish build system and all
of the sales system is all completely built around selling Windows. And if you make any deviation
from that, if you, you know, try and sell a system that runs Linux in any way, then it's still
built around Windows. So you still get advertisements saying, you know, people who bought this laptop
also bought an ordinary virus or, you know, or you might also want Microsoft Windows small business
server or, you know, something like that. It's, it's so ingrained. I mean, you think they'll have been
selling machines or Windows for years and years and years. Oh, yeah. Their, their systems are built
for that. So when you're here with the marketers, when we come along and, and try and offer something
different, yeah, there's slight scrubs now and then. And that was just a screw up. And it,
and everyone made out like it was, you know, all the Linux people online, they, they got
Dell to change it. Okay, we might have raised their awareness, but the fact is they weren't planning
to sell it for more than the Windows version. That's a fact. Yeah, Linux has a hard sale to OEMs
to be feared because they've got all this market and stuff. They've all worked, all these add-ons
like installing office in BGET a cart install an antivirus and we get a cart install.
This, that, and the next thing and we get a cart and none of that works in Linux. Not only that,
the functionality is replicated with an Ubuntu's case software center, but in other
distros, um, yum or, uh, after something, you can just, uh, get install open office or whatever,
you know, but the good, so that's where we're still cheaper than Windows.
Oh, yeah. In terms of, you know, if, if Dell, if Dell share two machines and one machine runs
Windows and one machine runs, um, runs Ubuntu, we are cheaper than Windows. Definitely. Yeah,
the point is though that the people that are selling at the companies that are selling it,
they can't get all those add-on sales. Um, you're not going to sell, um, your Microsoft office
on top of an Ubuntu install because it won't install. I mean, I'll run wine, but it won't install,
so they can't actually sell that on top of that. And, and top of that, you get your functionality
for the basic user quite happily. Yeah, but, uh, open office or something, you know, what's their cut
of a Microsoft office sale? I would wonder, you know, I mean, if, if, if, if they still get more
money off the top from selling a Linux computer, then then maybe it wouldn't be a big deal. Yeah,
they can't now sell other stuff on top of it. Well, do they though? Because, yes, there's that,
especially on the cheaper PCs, um, I mean, there's hardly any profit margin at all in that. It's
all. Yeah, but, hope he says yes. I mean, he's sitting here saying yes, and he's, he's the part of
the team that sells this stuff to the computer seller. So, so one of the, one of the things I
learned about Dell is that their, their profit margins are tiny on, um, on their equipment.
You, if you buy a, uh, something I was told was if you buy a machine from Dell, don't phone them
up to thank them for selling you that Dell laptop. Because as soon as someone picks up the phone,
at Dell, you've eaten the profit on the machine you bought from them. Man, I believe that.
Hey, what about Ubuntu you were talking about? Uh, they increased their LTS to five years.
Isn't that directly at businesses and, um, that type of thing? Yeah, and end users who want, uh,
you know, uh, stable system that's not going to, you know, free time on them every season.
Businesses don't want to, don't want to redo their PCs every two years.
That five years got to be very attractive. Yeah, I'd hope so.
So, server was supported five years, I think, so I think it makes sense to have desktop.
What's cool? It's the same now as one.
Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, uh, what's XP gone now?
About 11 years. Yeah, XP's end of life next year.
That's next year, isn't it? 2014, they go end of life on this. Yeah, I think, I think it is 2014, April, I think.
They've been trying to get rid of it for a long time. Yes, man, it's been dead for a while.
It's a shame because XP wasn't, yeah, if you wanted something that kind of worked when coming
from all the releases that went before, XP wasn't that bad, yeah.
No, it really wasn't, but Ubuntu has to be 1404 has to be almost a target because of that little window
there. Even though XP isn't really that bad, when you go this out properly, I love XP.
I'm afraid of moving windows. We're still running XP at work still.
Well, seven's got some, some things that are blatantly stolen from Linux.
To be honest, things like when you can hit start button and you can start typing and it'll
find the program for you so you don't have to go through the horrible menu. You can pull something
to the top of the screen, it's maximized, left-hand side of the screen, it does the left half
and the right-hand side for the right half. And all of those I've seen in various Linux
distributions for years, so it's kind of funny, of course, they're stealing it. But there's some
nice things about that. And I've, I did download the developer version of Windows 8 and I
despised it. It just, it bugs me because everything is so different and everything was designed
for a tablet. I mean, down to the, to log in, you had to pull the screen up from the bottom,
which is horrible to try and do an amount. Now, maybe they fixed it in the release version,
but the developer preview thing I tried was like that and that was horrible.
I'm not convinced that the windows got snapped to the sides from us. I have a feeling we got
them from, got that from Vista. Maybe I'm, I've basically skipped the whole Vista thing.
Yeah, me too. Yeah, I skipped Vista. I skipped most of the versions.
I skipped most of the versions. I skipped most of the versions.
KDE picked up from a, I'm pretty sure previews of Vista.
Yeah, that's the thing. When you see a beta preview of Vista, then all the open source
developers go, oh, that looks good. Yeah, we should have that. And then very quickly knock out,
companies has had that kind of drag to the side thing for some time, I think.
Yeah, but I mean, there's, it's, I mean, a bunch of these things. It's all, yeah,
everything is a remake, which is a little YouTube video talking about everything's going to be
making. So iOS and Android, yeah, how similar they are.
Yeah, it's not, I mean, everything is, as a remix of everything. So, and it's not just a boom
to it, you know, everyone copies, everyone else. I think the difference is that Apple tried to
pretend, oh, we invented everything. So if you copy it, we, we own it. And then Microsoft
aren't the same thing as well. Oh, look, we own that. So you need to pay as money for that.
Whereas the Unix world, say, well, look, that's exactly how the world's supposed to work.
You're supposed to take the best of ideas that other people do. And then you don't copy the code,
but you copy the concept. If it works, you copy the concept, and you do it better. And then the
people who originally done it go, oh, hang on a minute, they did something quite similar to theirs,
but they had a really cool idea around the booth that they did it this way. Or we could maybe
had, and that's how, that's how things work. That's how things should work. You know, it's,
that's, that's the sort of honesty and the sort of open, open source world, you know.
Well, Apple didn't invent the bad by any means, but I tend to blame them for the
tablet operating system because of their overwhelming success with the tablet, with the iPad.
Well, I had this whole discussion with someone. They were a big Apple fan. I said that,
you know, they had a Windows phone out, which is running Windows CE. Years ago, I worked with a
guy and this is going back. Yep, I worked with C2. And years ago, well, something now,
10 years or more probably, and he had a Windows phone. And it had a touchscreen display,
and that sort of, you know, it was, you look at it and you looked at my phone now, and it's the
bait's same basic idea, you know. And they were like, oh, no, no, you know, they didn't, they
copied it. It's like, no, Windows came up the first. I'll grant you everyone now knows about it
because of the iPhone. It was the first big popular one. But it was not, it's like, you know,
people turn around and had a discussion with someone who might be in the room. I can't remember
who it was now, actually, but we're talking about email clients and stuff. And I said, you know,
Google did some cool stuff and with Gmail. And they were, oh, well, they weren't the first,
I know they weren't the first, but before then it was hotmail and you had 10 meg space total.
And for Gmail, turn around and say, here's a gig of space. Everyone suddenly decided, oh, crap,
we've got to fix it. And then everyone up the amount of space they had. And if it wasn't for
Gmail, you'd still have probably 10 meg space available for your email clients. For absolutely.
Yeah. And right wrong and definitely out because this person was not a big Google fan and they
were like, yeah, they steal all your information, they stuff it fair enough. But if it wasn't for them
doing it, other people couldn't have come on behind. So, you know, some of this stuff Apple,
they made it popular. And yeah, if it wasn't for Apple, Android would probably be nowhere near the
way where it is now. I'm never going to go and buy an Apple product. But, you know, I am at least
pleased that they made it a bit more popular. And now we can have the Android operating system.
Someone mentioned earlier about, we've talked about Flash. And I mean, yeah, that's one good thing
that Apple did for everyone really was by saying, by Steve Jobs being pickheaded and saying,
we will not have Flash on iOS on, you know, at the iPhone and later the iPad.
It kind of pushed Adobe towards saying, maybe this isn't going to work out for us anymore. And,
you know, Flash is starting to disappear. So, that's one thing that, you know, we should kind of
be grateful for in some ways. Much as I don't, you know, like Apple that much, they have some good stuff.
Yeah, I completely agree. And when Apple made that whole, you know, big,
bruihara and a letter to Adobe, I think they posted on their website about, you know,
how they've fallen out of love with Flash. I felt for them. I really did. And I thought, yes,
this could be it. This could be the point at which we can tell Adobe to go and screw Flash and
shove it in the bin. But it's still limping along now. Okay, now I've got a, I've got an Android
device, a brand new Nexus 7 that doesn't support Flash. You can't, you can't install Flash on it.
And that's, I'm right. That's fantastic. You know, I wonder if Steve Jobs had his iPhone
kick in at the wrong time. And he was watching Flash Gordon, the movie was singing along to it.
And he was expecting some Flash Gordon. Yeah, Flash Gordon. Flash Gordon.
That's right. And that says the decision on Flash. You know, it's like, he knows Flash.
Ah, sorry, I was just thinking now you've got visions of Steve Jobs sort of talking you out,
you know, whomever and saying, you're a dispatch rocket Ajax to bring back his body.
Yeah. Yeah, despite web technology Ajax, the revolutionized then on that. Oh, something, yeah.
They sent me kick stuff in time with the Webkin. Oh, yes.
Was that an OES to the Zaris? Yes. That was in 2001. Hey, I hear a Dan Washco.
I remember when the Zaris first came out, man, that thing was freaking awesome.
It was expensive though, wasn't it? It was like 250 bucks. Well, it's not too bad.
The only problem with the Zaris is you basically could use it on a wireless network or a wired network.
If you had the right card, but there was no way to get 3G 4G or even GDM back there.
No, you're right. It was really, it was more proof of concept, I think, wasn't it than anything?
It didn't really go far. Yeah, actually, it was really cool though. I think I got one 10 years
ago and was playing with it. I used to use it for, uh, war walking for wireless.
I still miss my Palm machines. I enjoyed Palm as well.
Yeah, I miss my Palm too. I'm still waiting for the more riskier version of Palm,
if it either wishes to hear it, Palm. But, um, I saw someone, someone's ported Open Palm
to their Nexus 7, don't they? I saw an Oscar about that today. Yeah, I think so.
You know, the first Palm I bought, yeah, I was working in Circus City at the time,
and I bought it and I put it in my top pocket pocket. And the day I bought it, I bent it over
and I thought I broke the screen. Sad day for me. In the drawer next to me,
exists a Velo or Velo one Windows CE vintage 1998.
Wow. Retro. You know, pipe man, I tie a piece of braided fishing line onto everything I
stick in my pocket and I put a safety pin through it through the inside seam of my pocket so
that that doesn't happen to me anymore. Well then, God, they have Gorilla Glass now,
because I've dropped my phone about a billion times and it's nowhere's for where.
You know, lame UK joke when the HP, when HP joined the Linux Foundation,
I used to wonder what table source I had to do with Linux. But, yeah.
That is quite bad actually. Oh, you see, that's why I warned you in advanced lame, lame humor.
That was the disclaimer there, yeah. Yeah, totally.
And same and B that's like three people in the room that are going to get it.
I get a lame humor alert every time I see Thistle Lebs lips light up.
Oh, shocks, you know, really shocks. Just easy.
Tumble, we don't poke, we don't call.
So why is my Linux kernel for Intel still named AMD 64?
Because AMD came up with the 64 bit extensions before Intel did so they got to name them first.
I always wonder why that was because that's one of those embarrassing moments when you're talking
to somebody who doesn't know anything about Linux and say, well, for Intel use the AMD 64
kernel. Well, actually also wasn't it that the original quote 64 bit Intel processors weren't actually
a full 64 bit. It was actually a slightly smaller data bus on the processor. So you couldn't
actually use the true 64 bit instruction set. Oh, I mean, the bus didn't really haul 64 bits
stuff. It just did the 64 bit commands. I thought that was the Ikeenium though, wasn't it?
Yeah, that was Intel's 64 bit. Yeah, that was that.
9864 or whatever. Yeah, but that's not X86.
No, it wasn't the Ikeenium. It was actually the early 64 bit Intel line processors.
Interesting. Well, wasn't there something about the original 186 that you had obviously the 8086
predecessor, which is where the 86 stuff came from. And then someone came out and called the
thing a 186, which is why they went straight to like 286 and then 386 and 486s.
I don't know because I was at school at the time and my memory now was obviously no.
Well, I remember the first PC was 8088, but yet it was all called the 86 code.
Well, going back to the 186, I think if I remember correctly, the 186 didn't have the numeric
processing that the 286 had. That was, I mean, it was basically like a step down version of the 286
processor. Yeah. And the 286 sx was the 186 supposedly to our 16 bed.
A friend had a tanny machine with 186. And I remember it was kind of in between.
I had a tanny with the 186. Oh, okay.
The I'm just putting out the Wikipedia page. Now I'm reading. That's the same tanny.
This is the 186. We did the printer report.
The 186. So this is why geeks are much more fun to hang out with because at this moment in time,
you can just visualize it. There's whole communities around the globe all getting together on Facebook
and whatever and Google Hangouts. I'll talk about Justin fucking Bieber and it's like a
god-nord relish. At least, at least, at least there's sort of technical chat going on here.
And Justin Bieber was on our list for the topic next.
Okay, so continuing about the computer talk. Justin Bieber was a 186.
Yes. The 1886 was the first one. The 1888 was released three years later.
Oh, sorry. No, one year later. It was started designing in 1976 and in 1978 when it was released.
And wasn't it that IBM wanted an 8-bit version of the 1886 processor for the original IBM PC?
I don't know. Background is in 1972, Intel launched the 1888, the first 8-bit microprocessor.
The 1886 is a 16-bit microprocessor design blah blah blah with an external 8-bit. You can go to the
Wikipedia page and look up at the 86 if you want. So back in the day, there was the Zylog Z80 which
was a common 8-bit micropro in home computers and then IBM came along and I think the reason they
went, they wanted the 8-bit microproes because they already had an 8-bit CPM. But then that's when they
went off to speak to Gary Kiddell and eventually Bill Gates and get DOS which was 16-bit and not 8-bit.
You want to really show your age? I actually work with the Intel 40004. Sweet.
16-pin dip. Everything is serial in and out. Yikes. So now going even back into this IBM processor deal,
they came not with their own processor but wasn't that the service processor?
If I remember correctly, IBM, the actual IBM CPU spun off the Syrus.
Yeah, it rings a bell. I remember Syrus was making upgrade processors back in 98.
Well, I know when the 8088 came out, was a high-tachi and the word V40 comes to mind. They
instantly or just overstepped it. Syrus was X. Not IBM, TI, people who made Syrus, I think.
I remember at Circuit City we saw them to upgrade Pentium computers.
Yeah, they made they made like clip-on chips that could upgrade, they did like 486 upgrades for
386s but they clipped on top of the original CPU because they didn't they didn't always ship
machines that had socketed CPUs. Right. Those were fun times, thanks.
Yeah, I was in the hardware business back then and we were selling this AMD 586 chip that
all the manufacturers said would be a direct plug-in replacement. When the Pentium came out,
that Intel Pentium, you could just pop it right into that socket. Why were they full of crap?
It sounds like it, yeah. It was close. All right.
If that was sales, the big unit dealing with. Yeah, yeah, it was. Well, all you need
it was a big hammer and you could get it in. You probably could, but it wouldn't work.
I still remember bringing up, oh god, it was probably Lotus 123 to show that bug that was in the
arithmetic processor in the first pinch. Was that Pentium 1? That was Pentium 1 and it was
Excel that you were able to put in the early version at cell 2 and you could put in the code
and it would basically come up and do a divide by seven error or something like that.
I remember Lotus 123. That's a throwback. Well, I know. I just gravitated to Excel because it
kind of ran like Lotus 123. Do you remember the shareware ripoff of Lotus 123 called As Easy
as 123? Or am I the only one with that? No, I used that. I can't remember that. My parents were too cheap
to buy office. It was cracking. I've got a question from not caught, too, to derail all of this of
why does he kind of treat OSX like for lack of any better reference Voldemort out of the Harry Potter
series, the OS that shall not be named. I don't like to name it because I don't like to name it. I
don't know. Never thought about that. He fears litigation. It touched him when he was little.
I wish I'd thought of that. That's the actual pipe man wins.
The strange thing I find with Clotu here is that almost everyone who deals with computers that come
to Linux, almost everyone comes from Windows background, but Clotu has to be the odd one out.
He has to be the Mac guy. Grueh up in a Mac household and come to us.
I got an ex son for a guy. That's cool. Yeah, I came out of that environment and then
went to, I didn't know Bell for a while, then ended up in Windows just briefly, but Linux was,
I think the first version that I actually got loaded was 1.2 was the kernel version,
I remember correctly. Yeah, and God, X was the nightmare. You weren't going to get X started
to save your life in those days. But if you could download the 35 floppies, right?
And I've got to wonder with as many Brits as hanging around HPR, why some of those guys
aren't, you know, guys who came over from like Risco S. But I think it was as popular as people
think it was. Or I'm not as old as you think I am. Well, some guys that came from Risco S,
because like Gaio developed 12 rocks, came from Risco S. The lead designer, the lead designer
Unity is a Risco S guy. It was amazing that OS X doesn't sound like OS 2. I was going to say,
I'm really odd, man, now, because I came from OS 2. Wow. Yeah, I had a couple phone systems
that we got contracted to work on it ran on OS 2. It was probably the biggest cross between
DOS and Unix that I've ever seen in my life. And none of the right utilities worked for either one.
Interesting OS. How did you like overall? Overall, it was really cool. It had good stability
and everything else. The only issue that I had with it was the command sets that I used to
use in Unix. Well, you know, they sort of worked. And the command sets that you'd use in DOS,
they sort of worked too. And unless you went out and bought a $200 manual, you couldn't figure out
what the heck to type. I know, or I've seen that Risco S is available again for the Raspberry
Pi. And there are still versions of OS 2 out there. Well, yeah, there's still versions of God,
what was that? The Commodore 64 operating system out? The Amino S. I'm talking. Yeah, there you go.
I'm not talking emulators. I'm talking like Risco S, whoever controls that now, they've released
a copy of Risco S for the Raspberry Pi. And there's a company still actively developing and
supporting from what I've seen OS 2. Is it over there? Lord, you are real faint. I can hear you
on the stupid TV louder than I can hear you. You know, I stepped outside to hear the TV,
my wife's watching it. Sorry about that. No, that's okay. I just couldn't hear Lord. I thought
somebody was keyed up who didn't mean to be. I didn't mean to mute someone who was actually talking.
Sorry about that. What's she watching? Uh, watching the news.
Can't help it out here. ABC and ABC and Southern California. We're the only news she needs.
You know, I've been mirrored. Well, go ahead. I'm sorry. You know, Amigo OS sounds like an Mexican thing.
Just very friendly. I'll put it in the system. If it was called Amigo, yeah.
Well, you were talking about Commodore 64. Wasn't that Microsoft basic?
Commodore 64. No, that was its own thing. Oh, it was its own thing. It was very much like Microsoft
basic. Oh, that was its own thing completely. Yeah, no, that you could write gaming code in there.
It had awesome graphics. Oh, I hacked the 3K expansion module. I remember doing that.
Well, it was about the same time. Was it? I thought Commodore 64 Ti Apple. All that was a few years before Microsoft.
Well, CBM came out first and that was before the Commodore and the CBMs were the Commodore business
machines, which which well predate Microsoft. As far as Amigo OS, there is actually a completely
native developed clone called Haiku that is getting pretty close to actually finally releasing,
I think. I guess BOS, isn't it? Oh, yeah, you're right. That is BOS, but that was the company that
was Amigo became B eventually. I never used BOS, but everybody I know who did still misses it and
loves it and goes on about it all the time. Yeah, I've never got that.
You know, it's really interesting. You look at the history of who's come up against Microsoft in
the past and it seems like the only OS is it seemed to manage to survive or the open source
operating systems. I find that kind of comical with the exception of Apple who came into it at the
same time as a matter of fact, maybe a little in front of Microsoft. No one else has been able to
stand up. Yeah, Apple's operating system now is based on the BSD. Yeah, I mean, it's totally
different than what it used to be. So it's almost like, can you say it's the same OS? I mean, it's
the same company, but they brought it in. And they have money pumped into by Microsoft.
Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, Microsoft bailed them out. A lot of people forgot them.
So you could say, you know, the only ones that are proprietary or, you know, main stream proprietary
that survive are ones that, you know, are Bill Gates funded. Yeah, Bill Gates wanted it. We
wouldn't have. We wouldn't have Microsoft as it is today. It would have been, it would have been a,
most of the governments would have broken it up. But what wasn't the issue with a lot of those
old operating systems where they were tied to specific hardware, whereas Microsoft was kind of
hardware. They were one of the first that was hardware agnostic. It was more than IBM was
agnostic because the overall of the PS2 systems. Right. Yeah, but that was, that was just a total
mistake on IBM's part. They, they, they look back on that now and go, God, why did we use
industry standards stuff to build the PC? I mean, them not locking MSDOS down to their system had
to be one of the greatest wonders in computing history. It isn't necessarily that they used
industry standard equipment. It's more than the equipment that they used didn't have any proprietary
base around it. It was open, not just industry standard. Once they'd made it and everybody realized
that it worked well, then it became a standard. Right. The thing that they actually had at that point
was the BIOS. Yeah, the BIOS was open. Yeah. Well, no, no, the BIOS was closed. That's the clones
actually re-engineered the BIOS. That's what started the clones.
Wasn't the one point in history where Apple were basically down on the race and Bill Gates was
the benevolent investor who, who basically turned up and they got the video with the Mac conference
and stuff like that. I mean, I'm wondering if Bill Gates sort of regrets stepping in and not
letting Apple feel. There was nothing benevolent about that. That was Microsoft. Yeah, they're
recovering themselves. Yeah, if they wouldn't have done that, it would have been broken up because
they would have looked at it as like they did with AT&T, breaking up. You have to remember that
Bill Gates did go to law school. He may not have finished, but he did go to law school.
Yeah, I'm just wondering how successful Apple have been.
If Bill Gates somehow looks back at that moment and go, you know what, I should not have
intervened to try and help these guys. I really shouldn't have.
I don't understand. No, because his own company would have been broken up for that.
Yeah, he's really quite happy with it. Yeah, he would have been an antitrust issue and he would
not have any defense. Yeah, if Apple had disappeared, they'd had nothing to say when
the government come along and go, well, there's no alternative to you and then they can go,
you know, there's Apple. That's their defense is, oh well, there is. There's Apple. You could
get an Apple. And he still got what? 90% of the desktop market? Yeah, Microsoft's not
heading that much. No, I don't think Bill Gates ever had much of a bend towards the technology
of the time. He'd turn into a really shrewd businessman. Exactly. I don't think Bill Gates,
yeah, he had the ability to sell things he didn't have yet. I don't think he looks back much on
his days other than as a businessman. You know, he's turned into a pretty amazing philanthropist
since he stepped down a CEO. And so I at least got to give him credit for what he's done for
charities around the world since he stopped being in the technology market. Yeah, that's true.
Well, I don't believe he's the evil in Microsoft. I never have. No, I don't think so at all.
Unfortunately, the evil in Microsoft seems to be the same evil that everybody else has,
the corporate mentality. Exactly. Yeah, let's kill some people. Yeah, I'm
afraid. Unfortunately, in the US and capitalism as a whole, the idea is that all companies must
advance. If they don't advance, they can get sued out of existence by their shareholders.
Yes, I sometimes think when Microsoft is failing and there's all these rumblings about,
or should Steve Balmer go, I often think as like users, we should be almost starting to account
or campaign to that. Say, say Balmer, say Balmer, Balmer must stay. Balmer's doing a fantastic job,
you know, all this Windows Vista stuff. That's fantastic. Windows 8, that's fantastic. Surface.
Brilliant. Windows 8, brilliant. Keep Balmer. Balmer's a visionary. Keep Balmer. Long live Balmer.
Yes, Balmer. Microsoft. Now, now, you know, the problem of Microsoft is they've now become a
lumbering giant and it's hard to be the biggest kid on the street. If you're the toughest guy
in the block, everybody comes up against you. Yeah, but they're an evil corporation. I mean,
they're totally, they cheat their users. They are totally unscrupulous. I have no sympathy for
them and I don't care if they are the biggest kid on the block. They're bullies.
Well, yeah, of course they are, but that's how they make their money. I mean,
well, the thing is they have to be bullies. They're required to be bullies by the way,
the law is structured right now. Well, then the law is broken. That's not true at all.
That's not correct in any way, shape, or form, because Red Hat are not bullies.
Well, but how are the, how are they? You know, I've got, I've got my own share of
problems with Red Hat is because they won't, they don't release binary security patches.
That's, that's my only real grumble with them. But, you know, on the other side of the coin,
Red Hat has done tons for the industry and so has canonical and Ubuntu as far as open
sources. You look at it even Microsoft has contributed some to open source though. Yeah, to a certain
extent, but well, yeah, but it also lead to benefit themselves. So, you know, again, that's
the corporate mentality. I mean, I, you know, I've been in the corporate world for 30 years.
And that's it. You hit it on the head. You keep moving forward or you die. Kind of like to sharks.
Did that code ever get into the kernel into the Linux kernel? There's Microsoft for trying to get
code for hyper vehemently and into the kernel. Yeah, I think that's it. It did quite a
couple of years ago. One, maybe three years. Because nothing happened for a while. They
announced they were going to do it. And then Greg KH came out and said, this isn't happening.
Yeah, I think they did it. And then they said, well, okay, here's the code. You maintain it.
And no one bothered to maintain it. And I got to a point where it was not being maintained by
anyone. And they said, well, you know what, it's not been maintained. Screw it. It's getting pulled
out. Did they pull it out? They came very close to pulling it out, I believe, because it was
really shit code. This is what I heard. Yeah, but I think Microsoft stepped up again once they'd had
a, you know, a public kind of calling out. They did something about it. Well, that was the whole
code that had the boobies reference in. Yeah. Yeah. One, yeah. Okay, yeah, that's interesting.
One area where Microsoft is actually contributing quite a bit is the open street map.
I don't know if any of you know, Steve Coast lived out here in Colorado for a while. And I went
to a bunch of mapping parties with him. He was the guy who started open street map. And he now
works for being maps and continues to work on open street map. They donated all the satellite
imagery that is being used as a background for open street map. And they continue to try to
provide and upgrade the addressing data. Yeah. I think it would be nice to move to another
channel. According to the text. Now, before we do that, we got to say happy new year to Yurgway
and Brazil. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. I think I think
I'm going to do a sign and traditional Brazilian times it should be go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go and
mail it goes. Yeah. Now's a good time to take a break. It must be a tough thing. Yeah, it's right
at a three hour point. So this would be a good break for for Ken Fallon's recording where he wants
to break those off. So if if we're being asked to move in the other room, let's move in there and
here's where Ken can break it off. We so having a dump and then having it run for the bus.
Yeah. That guy that guy is a complete dig. Yeah. So you're right. Glad to.
Thanks. I'm just saying it's about to happen. Yeah. Glad to. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I could have supporting you. What did I do? These are the points actually when you
notice everyone who's actually still awake and listening. Would you see the people who don't
do it? Which is pretty much everyone. Which is put just everyone basically. I don't know how
he's moving people. See, we should switch rooms about it. It's just to make sure we keep the people
who are actually paying attention. Now that's just mean. I think it works. But funny. Yeah. What
is going to require though? I don't know if if Kevin Wischer logged on to his ZHPR
Og and ZHPR MP3 and the name of the machines here, those need to be. They just need to type
something real quick so they're not rendered inactive. Yeah. I've missed playing all the length
sign twice now. And obviously he didn't because they just moved again. Yeah. I know.
So that's the inactive time out. Yeah. So I'm still around. I think. I'm not. I think I'm on to.
You guys are just for sure to push to talk. Does this work? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's working.
Couldn't hear you. It's working. It's working as well. You guys are so funny. Yeah. Sir,
but that's working there. Yep. That's working. No. The reason for the push to talk though,
that took me ages. When I first came in mumble, that took me ages to get used to that.
It's the fusion of one to talk. And then it kind of becomes kind of once you've got a lot of people
on the same channel, it really makes sense. It seriously does make sense instead of having to make
walk down and everything echoing. That's why I was mentioning that. We work. We use Google Hangouts
quite a lot. And there's a guy who comes on the Hangouts and we have to mute him because his kids
are screaming in the background. It's like he's running a crash. There's just like so much noise.
We have to like as soon as he joins the Hangout, everyone's just like bam and mute him straight away
to make sure that we don't have to listen to his kids screaming. I found a non-line soundball thing,
you know, where there's like, and when it was my turn to speak, I pressed all the buttons to make
loads of kids screaming sounds from my microphone. That's pretty good. I've got three kids that are
more than willing. I've heard canonicals pretty juvenile place to work.
You know, the hardest thing about push to talk that I found is I forget what button that I
had actually set up to push to talk. At the moment, I've got it on crunch-bang and it's on the
the button around the right side of the space, which is the alt key. I've sort of remembered that
now because I've been on crunch-bang for a while. But at some point, you install something and
that OS, that dust draw, happens to use that one button for something and you have to reassign it
to something else and you forget what button it is you reassigned it to. Just remember which key
you never use, assign it to that and then you'll remember which key it was. Caps lock then?
I use right-hand shift key. I'm using instance. I just put it on spacebar. I tried it on spacebar,
but it didn't really work. I realized that I couldn't do spacebar. All the things were going wrong,
and after a few others of amateur radio, you'll learn to use push to talk.
I said it on that space, it's working for me. Well, you know, the funny thing, amateur radio,
I never use push to talk on amateur radio. I always use vox. Oh, that's you. Now, I know how to set
up vox. Yeah, as I said, I don't remember, but I've also used vox on mumble sometimes tonight. I'm
not because I'm happening to laugh too much. Yeah, I'll show you the problem. Phones when I was on
scape, or you just talk, you don't push a button to talk. It's just that's night until. And then
you come to mumble and you're like, you push a button, that's going to be awkward. And then you just
get used to doing it. I can just remember Yahoo, and how we used to chat on that the same way.
You couldn't have this many people on the channel with everybody talking.
No, I'm using tab at the moment and yeah, but it does make sense to just push to talk,
especially with so many people, but even sometimes you still go there kind of, but try and get you
you're saying, but the flashing thing tends to work. So that's good. And you, you know,
kids in your sky, but I remember when we used to have to use net message if we didn't want to use
push to talk. Actually, mumble is really good. The fact that it lights up the lips of the person
that's talking. So even if you're not, if two, two or three people all queue up at once,
you can see that people are waiting to say, Chepe, and that's really, really good. I think,
you know, I had to do my own horn, but we were using mumble before it was cool.
No, yeah, he really was. He was the inspiration for us using it on the last year's New Year's Eve show.
Go ahead and tutor on the horn. Just don't let everybody else do it for you.
I was going to say, I've been mumbling forever according to my wife.
Well, my wife says I mumble all the time, but, you know, that's just me.
So I think it was Jonathan Nadeau pointed out there's an accessibility problem with the whole red
lips thing. And it's actually quite hard. Oh, that's the thing. Colorblind. Yeah, if you're colorblind,
or in fact, if you're blind, you can't see the lips. Yeah, but those textures. Yeah, but text
speech doesn't tell you when someone else is pressing the button. Well, yeah, because when
pick up the light, you need someone sit there and say, Pupi, I would like a university challenge.
I hate to point this out, but doesn't that I'm talking indicate that they're talking?
Well, no, the point the point someone was making was you press the button to say you want to say
something, but you, you know, not, so you're not butting in, you just tap the thing to light up
your your lips. So the other people can see that you want to say something without
I just have a column view with more users available and possibly bigger lips.
I know there is. There is a lot of lips. I was looking for Mick Jagger at the lips.
It's the Mick Jagger model. Yeah, the Mick Jagger edition. Oh, geez, I was thinking Angelina
Jolie. I don't know. I'd much prefer her over here. What do you get about the interview that
someone had with Mick Jagger that said, was Mick Jagger with Steve Tyler, actually. I can't
remember. One of them was basically they referred to how they thought that his lips were basically
a black man's lips except they used the N word and he just like went off this whole like a round
about basically how he grew up with a bunch of idiots. But I can't remember if that was Steve
Tyler or Mick Jagger now. Yeah, but there's a few somewhere and he's talking about it how
basically he went to school with a bunch of assholes. You know what surprises me about the whole,
I mean, podcasting's really taken off for the last two or three years and the fact that you can
do really decent quality podcasting on cheap cheap ass equipment really seriously cheap ass
and you've got some podcasts that are professional podcasts from companies from very presumably
profitable companies and they still use Skype and calling in on Skype and the sound quality is
God awful. I mean, the game podcast from the times the football thing, the can they do the
stuff? Yeah, that's not regular. Oh, they are awful. They are God awful through Skype.
I gave up on that podcast a while ago. The game knows.
Just a little introduction to the chat. Uh, Brazil is in the new year now and I think I think and
I'm not sure who else. We said Brazil, didn't we? And I forget where else to. Yeah,
you keep going. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. You're a good guy. Was it you're a guy?
Something like that. Yeah, thanks. Well, I'll tell you what's amazing. The me is how good microphones are.
I mean, the one I'm using right now costs less than 20 bucks. I'm using a standard
phone headset. Yeah, I mean, my USB headset might that I use is cheaper. So I mean, it was only like
15 bucks. I think it depends on your lock on the laptop or in my case, the netbook you're using.
I think some of them are really bad with the boards underneath that the USB is too close to
different things that get sent a few and some things like that. That might have just been
lucky and equipment I've chosen, but it means they'll cheap us equipment and it sounds just fine,
you know. Yeah, I think putting it too close to the power is always a classic.
Sound cards on laptops are always too close to the power. And you can pick up a USB mics that
were meant for, you know, some console games for a few bucks if you go to a used game store.
Yeah, I think the hardware is pretty ridiculously cheap now.
That as I say, that's what pisses me off. It's when you've got supposedly professional
podcasts are with money behind them with people who can go out and, you know, into a hardware store
and write a check for, you know, the store, the company Visa card with expense account or
something, I'll just put that in the account. It's a few thousand dollars worth equipment or
pounds worth equipment. And they can't get any near what basic armatures can do with really cheap
pass equipment, you know. It's like, you know, seriously, is that the best you can do? Honestly,
you make a lot of money. We're all hackers. So, you know, we can, yeah, we can, we can figure
out how to make this stuff work. I remember the first time I tried to get video to work in a
streaming video in Linux. My God, it was almost impossible. Now, you know, it's to the point where,
oh, yeah, just install these packages, not a problem. You have to think most of the people here
have probably worked at tuning their system so that they can get out any kind of buzz or backfeeding,
gotten everything running. Not to mention the wizard on this thing is pretty brilliant.
I didn't do any of that, but I got lucky this time when I had that. In my year two,
it just sort of all works. But I think it's because the other guy was on the floor with me on
the Pizzle web podcast, Cravins. And he, he, I don't think there was a bug of some sort,
and he must have sorted out or something. But anyway, it all worked fine for me this time around.
And I, and actually, in my year two this time, so I'm quite happy about that. And in my headset,
it's just pretty standard. And I had to issue some issues before, but so working great now.
You know, a lot of things the professional equipment provide you with, though, this
will have is lost a bit in the encoding. You know, hi, hi, hi, hi, and Mike is going to give you,
you know, frequencies that you're really not going to see in a spoken word. The only thing
of better equipment gives you is like a pop screen. Something that's going to prevent
popping and stuff like that. You're not going to get something that's going to make it sound
amazing. Yeah, I think the difference is, I mean, mumble, the same quality and mumble,
even just straight out of the box mumble without doing anything that's fantastic.
Compared to Skype, Skype is god awful. I mean, anyone who's who's actually recorded,
tried to record anything through Skype, oh my god, it's god awful. It really is.
But I think people think there's no other alternative to that because Skype is the only thing that
really works that you can do that with. So you must use Skype, you know.
So we've been looking at, so when we record the Ubuntu UK podcast, we all drive to Studio A,
which is basically Tony's house, and we all record in the same place. But we're looking at
ways of doing remote recording like every other podcast does. And we've tried Skype and we tried
mumble, and both of them gave us pretty awful audio quality. So we have to record locally.
Yeah. But the problem we have is that Tony has the rubbish, the rubbishest internet connection
ever. He's got basically one meg up and down if that. So that's the problem that we have is that
we're not able to have a decent enough conversation that it flows between the presenters.
We can each individually record our own audio locally, and that will be pretty high quality
and fine. But it's not having the snappiness of talking to each other online that's going to be
the problem for us. But you can't get it, you can in editing, get it to sound pretty darn close,
but it's brutal and takes a long time to get an edit. Yeah, we're not going to miss. We stopped
editing. We put it out, we do the show live and record it, and then at the end of the show,
we top and tail it, basically, you know, cut the top of the end off and put it out straight away.
There's we don't edit anything at all. Sure. I think the difference that you guys have got is the
fact that you're all in the same room. So you've got a visual cues with each other or visual
nodes and stuff like that. I mean, we don't have that over a mumble. We record over a mumble.
And it's fine, but we don't have that. So we just have to sort of watch the lips lighting up.
So yeah, I guess you've got that kind of advantage with being all in the same room, you know?
Yeah, we wave at each other madly when we're interviewing someone over the phone.
We it's really stupid and school push, but if we're interviewing someone over the phone,
like one person will be asking a question, and then other people will actually put their hand up
like they're in school. And oh my god. Yeah, we do do that. Wow. So,
on the mentality. So we know that the other person wants to ask a question,
so we don't all talk over each other so that we know the other person wants to ask a question.
And we all like do the French shrug at each other. If none of us have got any more questions,
we would like turn to Twitter or something to get more questions.
You can send it hangouts maybe, because I mean, you could at least like see each other on
webcams. I know it's not ideal, but at least you could still wave at each other. Yeah.
If Tony's connection could do a good point, yeah. That's the big issue is him having a crappy
connection. The money needs to make Tony come to you, you know, one of you instead of all of you going
to him then. Well, I mean, the problem is that Tony lives in Southampton, which is about 50 miles
from me. So I drive 50 miles down to him and the good thing about driving to him is the studio is
all set up at his house. So he can at his leisure set the studio up and then tear it down at his
leisure. Whereas if he comes to me, he has to bring the studio with him, sell it all up at my place
and then tear it all down in one evening and then go home, which is a bit of a bullseye really.
I don't know if this helps your scenario, but I remember when one of the mumble releases came out,
they had a thing like a where you had a main talker who could then approve who talks next, you know,
I think it had something to do with like, you know, the scenario where you don't want people talking
over the top of each other. But if you think of being inauspicious in a pub, having a conversation,
like five of you standing around, that's effectively what it is. It's like five people standing around
and there's one person on the phone or four people standing around on one person on the phone.
You've all got eye contact with each other, you've all got hand signals, you can all pick up
the visual cues from each other and adding, you know, it's a technical solution to it. There's,
you know, what is a social problem, you know, the social interaction between us that we need to
replicate online somehow. I don't know how we do that. I think part of the
difference is how many presenters you have, how many hosts you have. If you've only got in
our case, it's only two hosts and let it out was, it's only two hosts as well. So one person
are listening, the listening to when other was about to shut up and then you've got to be
sort of ready to jump in when there's dead air. If you've got like four or five people, we notice
that before when we had other people joining in is that you don't know when other people are going
to join in and then you've got dead air and then two people jump in at once and that's different
when it's, I mean, it's flame minutes to people, but it's sort of increasing the complexity of
when you've got more than two people. Yeah, you're completely right. Yeah. Yeah. So the solution is
to drop a couple of people. Thanks, Dan. No, maybe you could have like a, you know, like an American
idol X-factor style thing. It's odd factor or something, right? You have to, you know, see you
survive. You're going to polish UK PC folks off the island, huh? Yeah. Or better like the Hunger Games.
Well, they have given them to France. Given we only need two people and Tony and Laura live together.
Yes. Yeah. Hey, Dan, speaking of dropping people, what's going on with fab?
How'd you mean? Well, he's not here, you mean? I don't know where he is. He's in Germany at the
moment, I think. Unless you know something, I don't. No one's been dropped from the, from the
podcast as far as I know. He's just, I think he's somewhere off in the, in the rural Germany somewhere.
We invited him, but he said he was going to the Minecraft New Year's Eve party instead.
Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. That'd be a hell of a way to find out your co-host laugh though.
It wouldn't be, wouldn't it? Surprise. Yeah, it wouldn't be. Either that or you turn up for a
show one week and find someone else there, but like kind of catching your wife cheating or something,
you know, come in and someone else there and you're like, well, what's going on here?
Like doing their own show, wasn't we? Oh, Dan. Oh, sorry. Yeah. That time I walked in on you
and fab, but it was terrible. So you guys do think of each other as a couple.
Sometimes the odd couple, maybe. So you push the chuckle comes in pretty naturally sometimes?
Yeah. Yeah, let's do. Dan, I got to admit, I had it in mind last year. I really wanted to do a,
an April Fool show and try to mimic your voice and say that Linux outlaws had broken up because
I just mean fucking Germans. Hey, chicken now. What was that? Try that again. I'll tell you
if I'm convincing, I think it was. I just date fucking Germans. Yeah, you might need to work
on the accent a little bit, but yeah, go for it. I'm sure if you cut together enough of,
if you went through enough of our shows, you would be able to cut that sentence together.
Your voice, yeah, probably good. That sounds good. I think it only takes about two or three to
get those words. I think lost in Bronx could coach Pokey up pretty quick on how to do it.
And I still say one of the most brilliant parodies ever done was growing golfers,
a parody of security now. Yep. How is he doing? Why isn't he in here? Yeah, he popped into the UPC
IRC channel just a week or so ago and just said hi and and then left. He seems all right.
Okay. He won our awesome Fluffy Og mascot thing. I'll count the day in 2010. I've never seen it
since. Yeah, I was in the hallway and he walked out with it waving it around like he was happy for it.
Yeah, I saw the deal was he had to bring it back and he never has. He sold it on eBay already.
Probably. It doesn't strike music in a guy who inhibits other inhabits even a family friendly
channel. A family friendly show. Yeah, and though a family family channel was in the UUPC years on.
Oh, come on. He's the guy who uses open DNS to block porn from himself.
That's not work. I just for productivity. I know I can see the argument. Yeah, sounds rather
unproductive to me. He has a channel for open molar and I know a guitar man and stuff hanging
out in there quite a bit. So I think he's on mine quite a bit. I just I don't think he's been jumping
around in other channels. Now we talked to him once. What? I think he probably came on
on Colonel Panic. I think it was maybe four or five months ago. It feels like.
Yeah, he's done Colonel Panic. Panic. He's also done Telts as well. I think.
Did he do Telts? I don't remember that one. It down to the tree here now so we can't ask him.
He was here before. He's been on Telts at least twice talking about open molar. Yeah, but recently
last within the last year I think. Google says yes. Hey, Kevin, you keep lighting up but we're not
hearing you. No, nothing. Yeah, I can hear you. No, I'm not. I come. I was going to say.
Yeah, that actually panicked to me, Popeye. I'm really I'm going to get some more whiskey and do more of
this at a boy. That's fireworks full of death. I wonder how long you could go without somebody
pointing it out just thinking that everybody's being a jerk to you. That's because everybody is
being a jerk to him. Well, Lord Dragon Blue went quite a while and no one could hear him and I
could barely hear him and I kept trying to butt in to tell him and I just couldn't get a word
and edge wise. And by the time I could, he stopped talking or he had logged out or something.
Yeah, I think he was on. It said Lord Dragon Blue mobile. I think he was trying to talk on his
cell phone and it wasn't working. Yeah, and now I'm sitting back at my desktop. Unfortunately,
the phone, I just I basically have to eat my phone to get hurt on there and I just don't get
what's wrong there. Now you're back to proper levels. Tell me the truth. Speaking of
accessibility stuff, I seem to have managed. For the last hour or so, maybe a longer than that,
I've not had my reading glasses on and I've somehow managed to be able to read even while
inebriated and getting more inebriated. I've somehow managed to read the text on my netbook and
my laptop and IRC. So I'm doing well on the accessibility thing. Maybe that's all it needs
is booze. So you're starting to think that you can read. You can do a testing with Jonathan
you just drink till you're blind and then try to use things. Yeah, I don't know what it is,
but it seems to be working so far. There's actually, there was a talk with Adam's thing that says
that the only way you can remember your last year's new year's resolution is that you get to
the same state of inebriation and then it comes back to you as you were when you made it.
There's actually some science behind that that actually you can, if you go out and get blind
drunken, you know, you do something city and then you wake up the next day and you don't remember
it and you don't remember it for days afterwards and then you get more inebriated the following week.
There's something that triggers your mind to remember that thing when you get to the same state.
It's very bizarre. I'm not sure I would want to remember that. There's a great episode in the
new Red Dwarf where Lister being his own dad gets drunk on Father's Day so he can't remember
writing the Father's Day card for the next year. I still haven't watched that yet. You should,
it is classic Red Dwarf. So I hear it's really good. Oh, that's that warms my heart. Red Dwarf's
probably my favorite television show ever. I haven't seen Red Dwarf since, well, in about
probably 15 years, they haven't showed it over here. He, he's a bizarre question. Where are you?
Since, since, since, since, since they don't show it. Yeah, they don't show it then.
They're okay. Since it all, oh, sorry, go ahead this web. Yeah, this is going to interrupt
this a web every time he tries to talk. Yeah, no, I was, I was trying to interrupt this a web
because the last thing he said made me want to mention something. Don't you guys want me to
interrupt this one? He can make a, he can make it a drink. Every time he gets interrupted,
he's going to take a drink. Yeah, a man's going to fall over too soon on that. Oh, I don't know,
man. He waited some pretty wee hours of the morning last year. Well, the last thing he mentioned,
he mentioned drinking to remember your, your New Year's Eve resolution. And I was wondering,
hey, is anyone drinking anything interesting and beat? Is anyone having New Year's Eve
resolution? They feel like mentioning. Oh, I have some whiskey that my father-in-law gave me,
which is quite nice. I have a New Year's resolution. What's the whiskey? And what's your
resolution, John? I forgot what the resolution is. The whiskey is honey. Nice. I've got some nice
bourbon I should go, Graham. I, I never drink whiskey, but tonight I ran out of laga, so I've been
drinking Jack Daniels, which just never happened. That's not real whiskey. Well, it's the
only thing I can find in the house at the moment. Well, it's very outlaw. It's better than toilet cleaner.
Oh, I've drink in my fair share, but I did not kid myself. Of toilet cleaner? Well, that too.
Yeah, okay. That's how I remember, that's how I forget New Year's. Yeah, that's the thing with
the blue ice cubes already in it, isn't it? Yeah. It's crunchy, crunchy ice cubes, isn't it?
I got a good moon shine. I got the other day. I got a nice beer, man. I got, I don't know,
I don't know where in the world they sell magic hat, but I get magic hats, what do they call it,
hearted darkness. It's like a, it's a nice dark beer. I was up camping with a guy who's a family
makes like a cinnamon moon shine, and we started hitting that and not dissented to madness.
You know, when you mentioned cinnamon there, all I could think of was cinnamon donuts,
and then, you know, it's going to deviate away from the donuts and like, oh, okay, cinnamon,
something else. It's no longer of interest. Cinnamon alcohol, moon shine. It's a bathtub gin.
I recently discovered that my, I've got a kitten. It's less than a year old, and I recently discovered
that he just now found out. Well, I just found out that he really likes something called
Mamaite, which those in the UK will know, but people in the US might not. You can have it.
I brought some hot and tried it, and I was not a fan. Yeah, we know what it is. We don't like it.
All of America does not like it, according to Cloutie. Yes. Yeah, we don't. We don't have that around
here. They took a boat on it, I think. Yeah, I was in on that boat. That in Vegemite
were boated out completely. There's a good reason they don't sell it over here anymore.
Yeah, we outed that. You might remember it was Marmite and Sarah Paylon. We got rid of them both.
Well, it's good. Come to the magic of Google. The magic hat beer company is in South Burlington.
Yeah, we just had some. This is my bill, but magic hat number nine last Friday. That's a good one.
That's a good one. That's a staple. Yeah, sorry, I met the Dan. I knew I knew where they were made.
I just didn't know if they were selling them over there. Were you guys around? Oh, I don't know.
I haven't seen them, but then I haven't looked. I tried some Negro Madello the other night.
That's the first Mexican beer I really liked. Negro. I mean, it's just me,
I don't know. I think in your opinion, it's not wrong. Yeah, it's sponsored by the KKK, you know,
it's Spanish for black. Yeah, KK for black. It's not my fault that that's where that slur comes from.
Yeah, Luis Suárez educated me on the word Negro.
Oddly enough, that's not where it comes from. Did anybody else have a resolution?
Did I have the nerds with enough succeeded? I had fun to ignore people who pissed me off.
Well, I did just get a new laptop, so I guess my new resolution is going to be whatever it's set up.
Just for that Popeye, I'm going to mute you. I was just going to say Popeys with the Mutal channel.
Keep digging his employer. About a decade ago, I made the resolution to give up,
get making fucking resolutions. And I've been succeeding at that one fairly well.
Yeah, I agree with this. I would argue it's better being pissed off than being pissed on.
Oh, come on, Dissel Webb, you're into bumper sticker territory now.
Yeah, I know. Hey, I've been drinking for a few hours now, so I'm getting to be like that.
Yeah, so being pissed on doesn't sound as bad as it used to, huh?
Bill, it's one. What can you say? It's one moving on.
I found magic hat number nine. That's good. Thank you, Barbie.
I found magic hat number nine from somewhere who will deliver in time for Christmas.
It seems like how are they going to do that?
That's going to take a long year and they mean 2013.
I'm going to have a D'Laurian company.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You don't know. So you don't define what you switch Christmas. I'm not I'm not sure what area code 01553 is, but that's where they are. And if I let's say that's close. That's East Coast.
Last orders for guaranteed shipping before Christmas is Monday 17th. So when is the next Monday the 17th of anything?
Probably, no, we're going to say probably January, but then you said Monday. I don't know who knows. Oh shit. There was just an HPR in the second week ago. Nobody paid attention.
There's a Monday the 17th in June apparently. There's an HPR. What's that all that? I'm tightly going to order some and then demand that they get it to me for last Christmas.
What six months later. Yes. Last long time to wait for that joke. Yeah, you could actually do the whole farm last Christmas thing. You feel to deliver my present.
I did order a couple of a couple of years ago. There was a bad snow storm in the UK and everything stops. It was like an inch of snow and everything stopped.
At some point noticed that nobody in any of the stores have any snow shovels in because everyone was buying snow shovels on the day it snowed because nobody has a snow shovel in the UK.
Because we don't feel the need to have one in preparation for having snow because, you know, why would we prepare for something?
And so they set up a website called just by a fucking snow shovel dot com. And when you go there, all it does is ask you for your email address and they email you in six months time in the summer when everyone has one in stock.
An email you an email that just says just buy a fucking snow shovel and sure enough, I did that in June and now I have one.
Was that the year that was almost like three or four weeks of like fucking permafrost in the UK over Christmas and New Year?
Might have been in Scotland, yeah, but in the tropical south where I live, it was like dust in the palm trees.
Yeah, no, that was a year that I thought I had had a money store or something and I could not get outside because I could barely walk.
On carpet in my own flat, let alone going outside where it was like fucking permafrost when you step outside, you slide in your ass.
I'm going to go have a look for just buy a fucking snow blower dot com. And if I can't find it, I won't prey on to register it.
I think it's the same thing.
I said we have a, I'm thinking I have an eight horse power breaks in Straton. I could probably sell to the UK.
Yeah, I got a five horse and it broke down the other day and I haven't had a chance to fix it yet.
My bar of my neighbor's 10 horse and I know I need a 10 horse snow blower now.
Well, just we'll just sell this or fucking you know what you need it. You need it.
Oh, man, if you if you pushed around a five horse for three years and then try to 10 horse, you would know that there is a difference and it is worth paying for.
Try to show I've 14 inches of snow.
Why am I suddenly getting the version of the influence behind?
Was it telling the two men till or more power?
Well, honestly, the five horse snow blower will move snow just fine, but the 10 horse will actually throw it out of your way.
So you don't have to move it two or three times the same.
Yeah, the same few plates.
That's it.
So David, my neighbor bought a brand new one.
It lasted a half a snow storm and broke down.
And I come over here with my 14 year old Toro and cleared out his driveway and he was quite pissed.
Oh, I don't mind if it's a used one.
I don't mind an old snow blower.
I just if five horse is not enough to move the kind of snow we've had this week.
That's what I had a five horse.
The worst is the answer to the question.
Sorry, go ahead.
Oh, where is it measuring the horses on that?
On their own.
The reins.
That's the problem on some machines.
What they'll do is a little bit of a cheat and measure it at the motor itself, not necessarily at the blades.
So it doesn't compensate for what it needs to actually turn the snow.
Yeah, most of them I think measure right at the output shaft of the engine because it's, you know, they say it's a five horse.
Briggs because all breaks and strat and motors on there.
Yeah, that's only that's only measure the motors.
I'll get a big difference in the new ones now is there two stage throwers where the old ones were single stage.
Yeah, I actually have a two stage thrower and it's still just not that great.
My problem is my next door neighbor has her whole front yard pretty much plowed up against defense.
So when the street plows come by, I get everything from her front yard across my front yard and across my driveway.
So I get just this giant wall of incredibly packed snow and, you know, the rest of the street doesn't look so bad, but my yard does.
Get a snow plow.
No, snow plows make big piles of snow that don't melt until June.
A snow blower spreads it out and you can't even really tell there was snow there where you where you cleared it off from.
Screwed it, I'd be plowing it back into the neighbor's yard.
Nah, it's not really a fault.
I mean, it's not like if she's got anywhere else to put it.
It's just, you know, a snow blower just works.
I just like the tin horse because it works three times faster.
You're missing the money making potential of that.
You blow it back into your neighbor's yard and then you turn around after a cup of coffee,
hit yourself up, you then go down to the neighbor's and go, you want me to clear your yard for you?
Yeah.
If you clear your neighbor's yard first, you'll have half the work when you do it later.
Yeah, you ain't kidding.
I'm just glad I don't have to deal with snow.
That's the cool thing though is actually the past couple of years I've, you know, done my driveway, you know,
since I got the snow blower, it's like the first one I ever owned.
But since I got it, I take care of my driveway and the parts of the yard that I need to get to.
And then, you know, I'd go out and hit, you know, the neighbor's driveway's, you know,
or just the end of the driveway where it's hard to shovel or something like that.
And, you know, this year my snow blower broke down and like two of my neighbors came over and took care of mine.
So I was pretty good.
Or at least they loaned me theirs.
I like having snow.
I like having neighbors with snow blowers.
Yeah.
What kind of maintenance, Pokey, did you do on yours?
I let it sit all summer long with gas in the carburetor.
You did the perfect maintenance, right?
Yeah, it's exactly why I don't run right now.
Yeah, I know how that goes.
Yeah.
Well, listen folks, I think I'm going to sign off.
I've done four hours.
I think that's enough for Ken to, uh, to, to, to sort me off the list.
Um, whatever he's got.
Um, that's the quota, um, I think.
Um, so I have an awesome new year, everyone.
Yeah, you guys still waiting for new year.
We're kind of three hours into it now.
So I can tell you from, from the future that it looks all right so far.
The world hasn't ended.
Um, yeah, everything seems fine.
Yeah, the world hasn't ended, but it's still pressing down the rain.
Well, that's usual for around here.
Not yet.
Yes, it's still tropical sunlight here.
Well, Pokey sat under a palm tree that right now, yeah.
Three hours in, Dan.
Have you seen any sign of Mac or Windows or is it just Linux?
Well, I'm pleased to say it is so in, in my vicinity.
It's all Linux at the moment.
Um, you're on the next stop.
Hello.
So, um, I'll see you guys soon.
Take care and enjoy the rest of my night shift.
Cool.
Take care.
Yeah.
Thank you, Dan.
Have a good day.
Have a good new year.
Happy new year, Dan.
And now I finally on the outcome.
So, this is embarrassing.
So, this is the safety of the Linux desktop then.
Yeah, because every year has been so far.
Oh, and we forgot to say, happy new year to Newfoundland and Labrador.
And St. John's Canada, because they're like a half an hour off.
They were 12, 13 minutes ago now.
Labrador, that's a fucking dog.
Yeah, most dogs are usually named after the place they're from.
Like Irish Setters.
Scottish Wolfhound.
There you go.
Scottish Wolfhound.
Poodle.
Yeah, it's got to be a region in France named Poodle.
It's got to be.
Yes.
Actually, it's still left.
It's not that far away from Pool, which I believe in Scotland.
It could be wrong.
It's just a typo away from Pool.
Pool is in Dosa.
Yeah, yeah.
Pool is in Dosa.
That's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
I knew it was somewhere in the UK.
Just for some reason my brain was going right.
That's somewhere in Scotland.
My brain has got something you invented everything.
Well, we did.
It's not off.
Maybe not.
If it's all Scottish, it's crap.
We are the Steve Jobs of the world.
Can you imagine getting a Scott and a Greek in the same room to argue about who's invented
better stuff?
They're correct.
I'll tell you what, too, when this web said that it doesn't sound that far from Pool,
I thought he was trying to say Pool Hall and I was going to say, he's a baseball player.
Baseball player.
End of story.
Yeah, yeah.
Hit the fucking ball into the heart.
Somebody please make a drum set out of him yelling it.
What you need is the same sample that the Linux outlaws can use when they press a bottom
one.
I like Robin Williams take on, have the Scots invented golf.
You know, forever, I've wanted to coat it up like a simple Python MIDI soundboard that
you could just trigger with MIDI events.
I might be the only one that could take advantage of it, but I think it's a good idea.
That's a great idea.
It also sounds like kind of a cool Python project.
I wonder, I mean, do you know if there's like a easy MIDI Python API or whatever they're called
module?
What do you think?
Of course.
I would think, yeah.
Okay.
It's Python.
Right.
Yeah.
I just never, you know, the open source musician podcast basically died and it died on the
back of, you know, it ran for a long time as a sheer will to not want it to go away from
my end.
And eventually I just kind of had said everything I wanted to say.
And then my life got chaotic and insane and I just hadn't put any effort into any music
or anything.
But it's always been on the list to make that little soundboard.
I thought it'd be pretty handy for podcasters to just have, even if you assigned it to like
keystrokes, you could just have keys on your keyboard that would feed them in.
Have you looked at some of the radio applications for Linux as well for that?
You mean like Rivendell, like commercial radio?
Primarily.
Yeah.
I've looked at Rivendell.
I mean, it's intimidating.
It's highly intimidating.
But if once it's set up, it's top notch, especially for commercial radio.
Right.
I haven't done a lot of commercial radio.
I have a system built for commercial, or while semi commercial radio station.
How's my like a college or what?
A community.
Cool.
And it's all set up on Rivendell.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, since we got it all set up, the station went down.
Well, I blame Rivendell.
I blame an ungrateful community.
That's just as good.
Yeah.
Nice confirm.
I'm just confirming with Seb.
Pool.
I'm going back a few minutes.
Pool and Dorset, for some reason, that those two words clocked together later on my brain,
my inebriated brain pool.
Somehow connected with Dorset, so it must be in Dorset, and apparently that's correct.
So here.
But meanwhile, back at the conversation.
I blame Pubby.
Yeah.
Hey, this is what kind of sounds do you want to to interject?
Fart noises mostly.
I made a wavefile, something on that order.
No, it was mostly like, you know, when I was doing the audio podcast, it would be nice
to have something I could queue up buffers, buffer music, and segment intros and stuff
like that.
Then during a show, instead of editing those in later, I could feed those right in to
the recording.
That would be something nice for Rivendell, because you can just push the buttons and
have it automatically queue up, change cassettes as you need for different sorts of stuff.
I know when we were doing it, you know, Jack was a big part of our environment, and I think
when I looked into it, the Jack support at the time wasn't quite there.
Well, I do stuff thing with on amateur radio called a voice kear, where I can just hit
couple, couple keys, and it will hit place a wavefile over the same path as the microphone.
Yeah, it might not be a bad idea to just do it as a f*** of commands.
I'm Googling it now.
Wait, what did you say that was that plays a file over the same path as the microphone?
In amateur radio, they call it a voice kear.
When we do contests, you'll repetitively say a line.
It's like CQ contests, CQ contests, give your call sign, KT4KB, and after a couple
of days of doing that a thousand times an hour, you lose your voice.
So instead, you hit a button on one of the programs that I used to log the contacts.
I hit the F4 button, and it says this canned response, you know, the looking for a contact,
confirming a contact, and it saves your voice.
And you just, you pre-record them before the contest, and you can do any, they use wavefiles
anyway file will work.
Okay, so you were using like a mixer to get that through to your radio though?
Well, my radio, I interface this headset that I'm wearing now through the computer to the radio.
The computer is in between, it's almost like it's a mixer.
I know, I know any hobby, it's difficult to say what's the rock bottom price of the heat
into it, but I've wanted to get into a little bit of ham radio to screw around.
What is a reasonable amount someone should pay to get started?
$300.
Yeah, that sounds, that sounds reasonable, maybe even less, but $300 will get you a quality
piece of equipment and then some copper wire.
And if you hit up things like ham ventions, you might always be able to get an even
better deal, because at those, you can always run into the guys who just want to help
someone new get into the hobby, so they're willing to slash the prices on their old gear.
I've given away more than one piece of equipment to especially to the kids.
Well, I was looking for charity, just wondering.
In general, if you're looking for basic used equipment, you're looking between $200 and $300,
unless you're looking for a handheld rig in which case it might be a little less.
And from my experiences back when I was a licensed ham, it's not charity at all, you know,
these guys.
No, I've given stuff to high school, junior high school kids, that's the only way they're
going to get it, you know, but I've given lots of help to adults and even, you know,
given more than one piece of little equipment, you know, it's a fraternity.
It's like, it's like going on an IRC and answering folks' questions is just something
it's part of the hobby.
You also have a chance of gilting them into contributing.
My, my, my comment about that is I'm a reasonably affluent person and it would be unfair for
me to ask for somebody to pace up for something I can afford.
Yeah, but advice is more valuable.
Sure.
All right, gentlemen, well, unfortunately I have to head to work at this point, keep up
the good work and I hope you guys all have fun.
Cheers, Lord.
See you later.
Happy new year.
Yeah, I mean, happy new year and thanks for being part of it.
Happy new year too.
Now, how much longer is everything going to run?
There's a timeout on the site.
Ten hours also?
No, nine hours.
Nine hours, six minutes and forty seven, six, five seconds.
All right.
Well, I'll probably show up at the third time after I get off work.
That's all I was drunk enough in about four minutes.
He's going to say goodbye to Lord D.
What is if I would do that?
I'd just, good, good bye is a permanent thing.
He'd just assume I'll be back and you say, see you next time or something.
See, you've caught me on that whole drunk enough thing.
I can't really argue against that.
I know honestly.
See, you're drunk enough and now I've just opened my first.
So, you know.
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