Episode: 1417
Title: HPR1417: 2013-2014 HPR New Year Show Part 2 2013-12-31T16:00:00Z to 2013-12-31T21:00:00Z
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1417/hpr1417.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 01:32:59

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And we'll say happy new years to China, Beijing, Hong Kong, Manila, Singapore, and don't
forget to go to the Orca fundraiser for the Accessible Computing Foundation, which
is on Indiegogo and the next one's in an hour.
All righty, the other thing I wanted to jump in is the fact that the fact that companies
have switched this generational thing rather than coming with model numbers, it allows
for confusion.
There was this big debacle where in India, people were supposed to win the Nexus 2013
tablet, but they got shipped the Nexus 2012 tablet instead.
And my opinion on this was that India is pretty famously corrupt, so somebody was obviously
taking the new ones and shipping out the old ones and hoping no one would notice.
And to answer your question, Popeye, the difference is on a car, it says, okay, this car is a
2014 Ford Focus, and right on the back bumper, it'll say 1.4 liter or 2.8 liter, it doesn't
go anywhere.
Actually, normally there's a tag on the inside of the driver's door, at least in most countries
of the world.
My car looks exactly the same as the car that comes two years before it and the car that
comes two years after it, unless you knew that this one comes with air conditioning and
that one comes with leather seats, you wouldn't know by looking at the car which generation
it was.
No, I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you there, and I can't speak for
the UK, but here in the States, you can open the hood of any car, and by law, there is
a sticker, a placard inside the car that tells you the engine size, the year of the car,
and a couple of other emissions things, but then also inside the door is a similar tag,
and there are ways of finding these things out.
But with a tablet, there might not necessarily be a way, you can't look at an X7 and find
a serial number on the thing.
Yeah, of course you can.
Well, once it's on, you can.
Right.
I mean, yeah, we do have the same plate under the bonnet and the plate inside the door.
But I was more, you know, it seemed you were alluding to the fact that just by looking
at something, a non-expert user should be able to tell the difference between revision
one and revision two of a product, and I think that, you know, you could say the same thing
about set-top boxes, or, you know, I just picked cars because it's the go-to and allergy
keys for everything.
You're right.
You're more correct than I am.
I'll give you that.
But surely, on the Android point, you can go into a box and find out what the plan is.
Well, yeah, the point is though that you have to turn it on.
You actually have to go through menus and interfaces to actually get to the about to actually
find that information, which is basically the same thing with a car.
You actually have to open the hood or open the door to actually find the tag or the plate
that actually tells you all the information about it.
Yeah.
When I was selling them was that people didn't care.
They just looked at the price.
I thought I had that one.
They didn't care what the RAM was.
They just looked at the price when I was looking at that.
I think it's one of those things where there isn't a consistent method for every device to
be easy identified visibly by a non-expert user.
That's the problem.
Right, right, right.
And I will say that in my experience, it's not that people don't care.
That's that they don't know what to care about.
There's not like if you want to go by a car, there are certain things that you know
enough to care about.
You know to care about the fuel economy.
You know to care about the engine size, the number of doors.
And those are all measured in standard ways.
You know, engine sizes are measured in leaders now and how many cylinders there are.
And fuel economy is measured in a standard way, miles per gallon over here or kilometers
per liter.
So if a computer or a tablet, especially now tablets, you don't know if, you know, is
a 1.7 gigahertz quad core or dual core, is that going to be better than a 1.2 gigahertz
quad core?
Is a snapdragon going to be better than a, you know, you just, you don't know and people
don't know what to care about.
Yeah, but this is not going to be, because this is a hard thing to open.
I think the normal user just gets confused and basically they just buy something they can
use.
Yeah, because it's too easy, we wouldn't have a job.
Yeah, that's true.
So let's break in here for a second and just acknowledge that Lovebug is actually joined
us.
And I think it's Steve from Lovebug podcast.
Hello, yes, that's what's on the fighter up, doesn't it?
Hello.
Hello, New York.
How are you doing?
Yeah, it's fine.
Thanks.
Ken, what were you saying?
I'm sorry.
Sorry, I was just going to say, you're given somebody an identifiable way of determining
something.
It's a bit like the megapixel with digital cameras now.
Yeah, I had a lot of people ask about that for the iMac as well.
And they don't even know one of those.
This is something I saw on TV.
It's just sanitizing, really.
So is it, you know, it's, especially with mobile devices, there's a lot more going on.
There's a lot more variables that you want.
So it's not really, I don't think it's really a good thing to be given people a, it's
one, two, three on the index scale, cool form, when, in fact, their use case may be that
they want a slower processor in order to get a better battery life.
I think battery is a big thing.
I think that lots of people came in and asked about battery life.
And so that's one thing they did, one thing they didn't want to know about that.
And that made a big difference on what they bought to something here, longer battery life
that made top wise, they buy the one that they had the longer, so that was a big selling
point.
It wasn't advertised either, so I mean, people did ask about it.
And Bravo to the hacker public radio episode about batteries from October and November,
I think it was.
That was one of the most districts, one of the most, yeah, one of the most useful episodes
I've, that I've ever heard and I've heard them all.
And I've been able to draw pictures of batteries wired in series for people several times
now and explain why letting things go dead doesn't work.
Now that, I mean, I never really understood that that's why batteries died, but now that
I understand that I can draw a picture and make other people understand it too, it's
terrific.
You'd be surprised even phones, even people that know nothing about phones, battery life
is really important to them.
Something that has a long time without being charged, they really like it.
That's a big selling point, I think, for phones.
Yeah, it's a really device though, you know, my digital camera, I want a long battery life,
you know, my torch, I want a long battery life, anything that runs on batteries, you want
it to last longer and it's a selling point if it does.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's one of the things we get into with the e-cigarettes and that and vaping is that,
you know, we're so dependent on batteries that having one that lasts a long time without
having to be recharged is actually really important.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's funny, I went to one of our developers summits in Copenhagen earlier in the year.
And the first time I'd been sharing a room with someone who uses e-cigarettes of Stuart
language and it's funny watching him like charging up all his little things on USB ports
and then carrying around all these little, you know, bits of gobbins with him when we went
out for drinks in Copenhagen, he had a spare battery for his phone because his phone had
a terrible battery, he had a spare one with a little USB cable and he used that to charge
his phone and to charge up his cigarettes, which amused me knowing.
Actually, that's really funny because I actually bought a device that is built specifically.
It holds a charge that will last about two and a half to three days for me, but it also
has a USB port on it and I can actually use the cable from it to actually recharged myself
on if I need to.
I carry one of those batteries around now.
It's got just a single USB output port on it and I wish it had like five output ports
on it.
But this is also my e-cigarette so I can actually use it as my e-cigarette or I can use it
to recharge my phone all the way so it's like multi-purpose for me, it's kind of almost
a Swiss army knife.
Funny thing was I bought it mostly as I thought it was going to be a backup, it's turned
into my main device.
Yeah, it turns out I've got a small motorized webcam type thing in the house that points
out the back garden and I found a cable that was used by an old hard disk USB hard drive
and it turns out that the battery pack that I have recharging my phones can also has
got enough juice to power this camera so I can put this camera anywhere in the house
because it can make so over Wi-Fi and just attach it to this battery pack and it lasts
for I think about 12 hours maybe more just running off this battery that's normally used
for charging phones.
It's quite cool.
It's terrific.
We actually took it to the pub a little while ago and one of the guys set his phone as
a hotspot and we connected the webcam to his phone as a hotspot and then SSH tunneled
the streaming video from the webcam through his web host so that people could stream and
see us in the pub directly powered by this little battery and tethered to his phone.
It was great fun.
It's terrific.
We were talking earlier about using one of those batteries that you'd have in like a backup
light and connecting because they're like 12 volt batteries and they usually have you
know 12 amp hours to them they're huge but they're a small motorcycle battery.
We were talking about using those and hooking up a cigarette lighter adapter to it and then
just power and everything off of that for days and days at a time.
Should anyone give a shout out to k5 tux for donating the ether pad?
It looks like that's working out really nice.
No, we hadn't yet.
You want to expand and add a little?
Well, somebody I think it's 5150 sent out a mail to the HPR mailing list about creating
a collaborative show notes document sharing thing and I tried using my own cloud server that
just came out with a new doc collaborative feature but that proved to be a little buggy.
So Russ would have been from the Linux and a ham check podcast who's also donating a streaming
server for this show put up a ether pad instance for us and I'm not sure if the links on the
website are not but anybody is welcome to join in I believe to it's open to the public so
and I'm watching like maybe somebody said live editing the show notes as we speak it's
pretty neat.
How do you record 20 hours with a mumble and actually put it out like a bit of a revolving
podcast on like all the time or something?
No, mumble has a built in recorder so you just hit record and what we're doing is every
it seems like every three hours we're stopping the recording and restarting and mumble will
put a timestamp on it as the the name of the file so can I'll just run that through a script
and it'll pump it out one day at a time.
Okay, so I'm just wondering how you're going to plant back like I'm just going to do it one
you know and pass like three a year or something yeah we're just we're stopping the recording
every three hours or so so it'll go it is like a three hour episode the first couple of times we
did this we just hit record and manually cut it up in audacity which took quite some time just
the audio processing alone and my slow equipment took quite a bit of time but doing it this way
is is working better actually we're aiming for two hour chunks this time oh okay sorry
of course Ken's asking if he can comment that's a silly question Ken.
Ken, you do have to unmute yourself first so technically no he can't comment no Ken you can't
until you figure this this technology thing out.
Kevin my break he's a noob.
We have a little thanks Kevin.
Anyways Ken if you want to go in the lounge so I'm going to walk you through this mumble thing in
how it works hardy hardy hard gentlemen ladies just had a message from Jonathan they do to say
that donations made to indiegogo are not tax deductible he is having some audio issues and his
wife and daughter are sick at the moment what he's going to try and call in leisure and it's
best awesome all right well when he gets on I'll talk to him about it then another reason why I
don't like sound crowdsourcing why don't you like crowdsourcing pray I I just don't believe there's
any policing in it to make sure that the funds are used correctly and I'm not saying that Jonathan's
going to rob anybody's money but I just think there ought to be some more accountability that the
funds are used properly you mean crowdfunding then not crowdsourcing because this whole show is
crowd sourced well yeah you know what I mean like the indiegogo and what kicks for you
and then like if brown like he wants to get a tax deduction for his donation which should be
perfectly you know legal and ethical like you know there ought to be another way to donate to
a project to a story you can do that my own personal key stars page and I've got
at 21 that I've backed that have successfully been backed for that were cancelled or didn't
made their target and two that are still ongoing I think I do too much of this kickstart everything
because you know what I just got kickstander we got it and went up the go so I'm we've
actually got I think it's quite clear they've just started that but with me we've been missing
yet up until recently can I just say one the best one here it takes me to know and is that a
Windows 8 key is not a valid Windows 8.1 key what the heck is that I don't understand like
through all this proprietary software licensing stuff I just stopped using it for like I don't
I stop looking for Windows keys and a lot of proprietary software licensing but this just goes
beyond understanding it all I think they're just trying to tell you I stop looking for Windows
keys on my keyboard I just don't look for those at all anymore they're just trying to tell you
what we've known for years is that you shouldn't use their product yeah I shouldn't use their product
unfortunately I am compelled to use their product oh I am too don't get me wrong I'm just saying
they're trying to tell you that you shouldn't use it that's all I'm trying to do I know that's
fucking how the choice I have a choice I didn't say I was forced to I said I was compelled to
for other reasons and this is sort of turning me off a lot I could be my I have to use it because
my wife has a VPN through work that calls on a specific Windows DLL and it won't run in wine and
I haven't gotten it haven't been able to get it to work in a VM either so for whatever reason
yeah it's it's uh god it's so bad I don't see that that's anywhere I think it's
I'll take Mac over Windows any day I was gonna say at least at least Mac was actually based on
BSD right but the problem with OS 10 is that anything I can do an OS 10 I can do in Linux so I just
will never use OS 10 because it has no need I have no need I agree uh I've just recently been
using Macs because of work not because of my personal purchases because I can't afford their
hardware for one thing that's the another strike I have against Apple but as from
sense I've been a user of Mac I kind of equate it to being a good merge of Linux and Windows
together in a more secure environment even though like say I'm not a Apple fanboy but if I had the
money to purchase a pre-built system I would definitely buy an Apple over a Windows system maybe
I don't know I feel like I chose different because it's funny how uh ultrabooks being
you know made by regular PC vendors end up costing you more than a MacBook Air I feel like the
MacBook Air is actually a budget ultrabook in many ways I was just going to say I'm one thing
outside one thing I've got annoyed about is just feeling guilty about what operating system I'm
using uh I mean well I say I used to so um why should I feel guilty about using Windows if I'm
a minute used by Spacer I mean really if you should just use what you want to and I don't feel guilty
Graham I feel frustrated and annoyed when I have to use Windows and that's the whole thing it's not
like oh ha ha I'm sitting here from on top of my ivory tower you know there are there are
drawbacks to using Linux or drawbacks to using free software the thing is that I would rather live
with those drawbacks than have to go back to the non-free prism that I escaped from years ago
so you know I like I like Linux for editing and I've been short on recording and stuff like that
but I don't like Windows for that because I can't use Windows for that so I like Windows for games
and stuff like that though I want to play so from there I'm just gonna I'm going to have
you just use it both flipping back with backwards and forth I mean I don't see why I have to
feel guilty about using Windows and why shouldn't be on Linux full time I've done that and I've
dismissed this stuff I want to use I mean technically you should feel guilty if you carry it all
out free software I don't care about free software but I mean if I want to use something and I've
got a copy of it I don't see why shouldn't use it because it's non-free I use free software
or Windows most of everything I use on Windows as I've put Windows is non-free so your point is
a little moot that you buy stuff in Linux but why it was the difference paper stuff now in Linux
well paying for stuff and it being open source are different issues for sorry I should say free
Libra I was gonna say free is not a question of the price tag it's a question of where I
not the the actual underlying operating system and the source code and the tools and everything
are open and available to everybody equally everywhere and that's not true with Windows that's not
true with the Mac it's the point that's it's rich installments argument every single time
yeah so if you sound like rich installman that's good reason yes I've gotten very good at
sounding like rich installman so we should tell him that it's time for can to say the free software
song no you know the free software song you know I don't know the free software song I know of it
and I've heard it I just don't remember it but you had rich installman in here actually sing it to
me I can't remember sorry about that that's okay you just you just started a good debate um
I'm speaking of free software then if you're saying that you shouldn't use closed source software
or it's software that's not I you know I can swap I mean that means you can't use sky it's got
it means you can't use a lot of other programs as well were you saying that if you pay for them it's
okay yes as long as they're Libra see I can't I don't agree with that I thought I want to use
something I'm going to use it right but that's because you're not following the same moral philosophy
right if you don't if you don't care about free software then feel free to use non free software
but if you care about free software then you will not use those things or you'll feel guilty about it
I for one feel guilty when I use Windows number one I'm supporting this I hate to word ecosystem
for lack of a better word Gerald yeah for for for their Gerald I don't like supporting their Gerald
and number two the time any time I turn on a Windows machine I'm going to spend the first 20 to
30 minutes fixing it because it just effing breaks itself whether that means reconfiguring
the menus and resorting this the start menu applications into reasonable folders or updating
software that doesn't that isn't smart enough to update itself or or you know going through
installers that want me to install Norton any virus in menu bar plugins this is all work that I
have to do every time I turn this machine on and this is a time that could be used to to better
purpose I could be supporting free software with my time I could be using free software and showing
people that it's possible to be free and use a computer that you don't have to use non free software
just because you turn a computer on which is what they want you to believe it is in their best
interest to make you believe that if you turn on a computer you must use non free software
and it's not just that and when we talk about the freedom inside of this and whether or not you
feel guilty using Windows or not but it's also things like again what we're talking about today
with Orca the whole idea that Jonathan has with the with the Orca project is actually making
certain that the accessibility to computers is actually out there for everybody and that's one of
the things that right now happens with the commercial software market where the price that they
actually charge for these things because they're a smaller area it actually cuts off access to these
machines so we want to actually promote things that actually open up the access to these systems
and allow people to get things done and doesn't actually restrict what the what people have access
to them and I wrote a blog post about updating Windows a few a couple of weeks back
I bought my my two daughters laptops and they were on running Windows 8 and the process to upgrade
from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 from first boot effectively took 24 hours what that's quick to do
two machines concurrently yeah exactly because Windows if I do a fresh install of Windows and run
all the updates it's literally going to take me 24 hour not not a 24 hour time period 24 hours
of sitting in front of the computer clicking okay when it it should know you know what I mean it
takes it takes for 8.1 automated at all though we're sorry eight in general and then take one
automated at all yeah we're not dating and my wife wouldn't allow that anyway on her computer
love bug go ahead and jump in first before me no I mean as long as you're at a decent internet
connection and desk William are you love bug no go ahead all I was going to say was that although
they may have done some improvements on the update process I use Windows 7 at work I use Windows 8
on my kids laptops at home and the the updating experience is exactly the same you tell it to go
and updo the updates it then has to reboot it continues doing the updates when you're rebooting
on the way down it continues doing the updates when you're rebooting on the way up and then when
you go back in again and say hey I've done on my updates it comes back to you and says well actually
no you've got 70 more to do so you then go and do those ones yeah and it comes back up again
and it is it is the same thing again and again and again it's silly dance cycle sucks I will say
that where you have to keep rebooting constantly that does suck and that's the best scenario that's
their software that they're updating for you how much software is on that computer the stuff that
you actually need to get things done that Microsoft doesn't update you got to figure that out
exactly yes that's separate from your little dance cycle when you first part when you first
grade a new machine where you don't have any software this is brand new fresh install because normally
you're not having that little dance normally you're not having that little dance after your
system has been online and you've been fully up to date once you usually just have the past
Tuesdays where you just have to reboot yes and it's once and the updating of the software that
you didn't install through Microsoft whereas on Linux I just do it you know once a week or so
just run an apt-get update apt-get upgrade or whatever system I'm on whatever command it is
I probably don't have to reboot so either right well I I don't really particularly mind the
reboot but you know seven reboots in a row gets obnoxious yeah but you want to know why gentleman
I kind of know why it's just the first install usually the reason or when nobody updates it because
you have a user that's not really big into that the reason why is when you get into the way windows
does its updates is to not make them cumulative every once in a while Microsoft will do an update
roll up when you pull from a package manager you pull the latest version period they don't do that
with Microsoft they pull every patch separately because you can choose to install one not install one
a lot of this gets back to their whole monopoly thing and they can't do a centralized store a
package manager because that would probably get them dinged as a convicted monopolist so you
have this huge problem on windows where nobody can make a centralized update update system because
nobody would trust it I think a lot of it I think it's the enterprise almost guarantee people
who want to selectively update things yeah I have to partially disagree with you bro because they
can do a centralized repository of the software that they produce and distribute I understand they
do yeah I understand they can't update Firefox for you they can't have that though they could if
they if they got permission to put in there they could but I'm saying even with their own software
my wife's got a vista machine which is identical to windows seven everybody says you know it
isn't but really it is it's identical to seven so I don't need that but on that machine you
can't just say give me the the combative role of updates like Linux has like brome was talking about
you can't do it my Microsoft office does work through windows eight that's the only thing I've seen
is my well the nice thing about windows eight on their part is that they actually force automatic
updates and they don't ask you it just does it and then it says you have two days to reboot by the
second day we're rebooting for you no matter what you say and so that is it's people updated that
I can't wait for that system to have a critical bug when it turns off you can turn it off yes you
can turn it off but at least for the default settings for the average user that's how it works
out of the box you are correct yes and you know what the fun with that is when I had a this was
been vista just came out and they weren't finished tweaking it so take this with a green assault
had a friend who's using actually it's coworker using his personal laptop to remote desktop
into a server now I used to do this we were on site but the difference was I was using my LLPC
XO which led to some hilarious comments but he was using his vista laptop and because he was full
screen remote desktoped into the server he never saw that we're going to reboot for you count
yeah yeah and he got kicked from what he was doing while he was working and yes I did have a good
laugh at that I wouldn't the server no he was remoted into a server so he was he was basically
full screen remote desktop no I get that oh you mean his client oh yes yes oh okay
that's why it's all the same I thought the server OS notify at least does notifications of things
for you to get the heck out I mean I understand why Microsoft did it because my wife will
sit there with hey you need to reboot for this kernel update you know it was just this nice little
English butler going hey you know you really need to reboot but it's really you really need to
install these updates and then you don't yes that's why it's there but that's also why the
enterprise should turn it off and do their own thing that's why it's just why you can disable it
but it's not my default I need to it's so that if you know better you do it and otherwise it works
for you I need to make two comments on something from like five minutes ago before we get too far
away the first one is that in in a room full of people who are free software fans to tell someone
they sound like Richard Stallman is a compliment and of the highest order I first of all I want to
say that but the the difference Marcus you were saying where you just want to use a piece of
proprietary software to do some Windows for me is Windows right are you maybe using freeware
not Libra or or maybe some of the stuff you're using is Libra but a lot of it is not just by virtue
of it being a proprietary operating system 99% of it is not free software but the the point is when
you say I just want to use my proprietary software and get things done the whole idea behind free
software is you're at liberty to do what you wish with that software and the whole idea behind
proprietary software is that you may not do as you wish with it so how then can you just do
something if the license tells you you may not do something with it you you can only do what they
allow you to do right it's your hecka like us well keep in mind will live it's your hacker figuring out
a way to do something they don't want you do is still breaking the terms of the license agreement
you're still commanding the crime after that let's say stay when you're right from my hard drive up
and and go into the computer and have a look and and and and store you know putting you hard drive
and then stuff I'll think of anyone in my country but you know here here's the other
specter of where there's a problem with free versus non-free let's go back to the NSA again
people are using Skype and the NSA has access to the Skype servers now all your communication
is is basically being captured by the NSA you don't have a choice in that you don't have a choice
of how to handle it but if you're using Linux and you're using you know mumble or some other
IP phone types software you can actually control what servers actually have you have your stuff and
how you actually take care of it great it doesn't get so easily interestingly on the other side
the fact that Linux is free software and that the gpl makes provision for you to be able to
use the software for any purpose you see fit means the NSA can use Linux internally to
oppress your freedoms using proprietary software indeed which is an out and which is also okay
that's the point of free software right because the only way to the only way to nullify that would be
to say that okay well then I will agree to give up my freedom for bit of security and we all
know that argument for the children what those who would exchange liberty for security deserve
neither liberty nor security what he's what popie said about the NSA they're free to use free
software to suit their purposes the only way to legally and contractually stop that would be to say
okay free software is no longer free but if it isn't free and you said that because you don't want
them to use it against you you're exchanging liberty for security but you're exchanging your own
liberty not just theirs but the problem that you say is they have that within the law of trouble is
the law is really fake they are considered right which is why freedom free software is
generally very black and white so that you can't be colored and it's why it's so important
you right you must codify your freedoms or else someone's just going to assume that they have the
right to deny you those freedoms that's why there's been a tremendous amount of effort and
care and thought put into writing each of the versions of the gpl and various other licenses that
that attempt to guarantee you your freedom okay well can you ask me this question in complete
but the free law I understand what I can source software is no I'm quite a beginner because I've
ever used a banter I'm quite beginner not I think it's poppy so what's the difference is in the
licenses so you've got you've got a free license you can license a free software does that mean they
hit high for it will they add I need permission to use it okay so if it's Libra they don't need
permission to use it you can have open source but not allow all purposes I forgive it licenses
to do that I think there are some like the be good to others and bullshit licenses are like
vims license where there are specific restrictions even though it's open source yeah let me think
of that I can't another license example of that off the top of my head because it's not common
Douglas Crocker it's like Skype isn't even open source Skype isn't even open source but I'm
thinking an open source piece of software with restrictions there are some with weird licenses
like that I know one okay and then then your two others that I can think of as general categories are
the ones which require it to be open source like the gpl so it requires anyone who re-releases
that software has to release it under the gpl or under compatible license so all changes may
must have the source code released you can't binary distribute that software solely you can
distribute binaries as long as there's a company source code to the binaries under open source license
you can do whatever you want to that code no hold on hold on hold on that's a Libra license
that's a Libra open source no stop hold on there's there's a bit of confusion here because
there's several different wrong roads we're all going down at once a free software license is one
that respects the four freedoms of the end user there are and when you talk about the gpl being
a free software license it is a free software license it is not the free software license and it
is a license that's what I said carefully crafted to be a restrictive license meaning there are
more restrictions on what the coder and the distributor of the software can do and it restricts
those people from denying the end user's freedoms right so when you talk about a less restrictive
license the distributor is more free to do different things with the license but it has more potential
but there's more potential for restricting the end user's license with a with a less restrictive
license so more restrictive and less restrictive licenses are are in a way they sound like
their definitions are swapped but in terms of the end user they're actually not uh I don't believe
I don't know of any licenses that you would that people generally call open source licenses
that aren't free software licenses they they typically are all free software licenses that's very
unjust the common ones the common ones are the ones that are usually free and then they come
categories but a lot of the uncommon ones place like arbitrary restrictions on what you can do
as a user and it's like there are some really odd ones out there yeah I was trying to think
that I know of one and I can't think I think it was go for go for had a weird
because I don't mean as a weird thing we can find some licenses real quick like this one called
no license that is not a free license uh the apple um apple public source license version one
was not a free license yeah artistic license 1.0 was not a free license right but a lot of the
common ones that you see are free licenses as well as open source okay yeah how about the um
there's one do whatever the f you want license that's not a free license because because you can
well actually as it is if you distribute it under that license it would be free but someone can
then take that code and proprietize it and and release it under a different license because
right but that's do whatever the f you want so that's right that's a weak copy left I think is the
the technical term the yeah the the can of fsf uses I actually find a quote open source license
but it's actually doesn't mean to open source uh definition it's the definition of uh the json
license for json.org well that maybe because is there code distributed there I think it's all
consistent it's both and they use it and Doug Crock for uses it for js linked as well
and if you look at the offending line is this software may be only used for good not evil right
exactly it's one of those bullshit licenses another another one to keep in mind marcus is that
the difference between free software and open source software is not technically a difference
in in specification it's a difference in in uh philosophy or or political leanings
okay well about something like OS 4 right um OS 4 has Skype on it sells it software
I like it sells it free distro for about but I think we're selling it 50 bucks for pop or something
on distro watch and it's basically just a straight copy of the expand to like a lot of software
inside it like line and leave it that's fine because it's still if it's if it's a direct copy of a
Ubuntu then all of the um gpl licenses are maintained it's still free software you have the right
to sell free software for a price can they rebrand it into their own name um put close or
softly like Skype on it and a couple other programs on it they can but it's no longer completely
free distro you have it on free components they don't have to write the cell that sort of that stuff
in the district they can sell it they just have to distribute source code when they sell it
it's probably not legal to sell a CD with Skype included on it no probably not because of the
Skype right yeah Skype has its own redistribution restriction or the Skype thing let's just say
let's just say the Skype allows you to redistribute it because it has some weird proprietary license
I doubt it actually would allow you to but I hate book um me first page and I hate
analytics okay okay Marcus let's say I took Ubuntu as it was say it has no proprietary software
which it does just screw it let's just say we can redistribute it um in binary so what I can do is
I can take it and I can sell it to you I can make my special sauce distro the thing though when I
sell it to you I can give you a binary copy but I am required to give you a source copy as well
for all of the software that's gpl or linked against gpl or whatever other restricted terms gpl
so you will get a copy to the source and because it's gpl you can then redistribute any of that
source freely as you want so even though I sold it to you no one else has to pay me a licensing fee
if you redistribute it to them because I know for a fact that if I hear that I could give a
Bantu desk um put on you know put a banter on a desk put on put on a sick hand tribase like
where we just what's called here and sell it to people for team back support that's legal
that's perfectly legal and I have a problem with that I had that may or may not be you might
not be able to sell it with the Ubuntu branding on it because that's not because it's a trade market
issue um a more a more uh well a real world example would be red hat um their code is frequently
copied and recompiled and the red hat is taken off of it and other logos are put on it and
that can be sold for a profit and or given away and or then resold for a profit um it it happens
all the time it happens with uh Oracle does it Oracle takes red hat code and sells it as Oracle
code they just take the red hat branding out of it because they can't sell their trademark uh and then
sorry sorry I'm sorry I don't mean they're drunk but um I just think that some people just don't
understand what the open source licenses are like me and some um you know how these different
licenses I think you see that in distro some time with someone that's coming up with straight with
a distro and uh putting all these different licenses on this distro and trying to sell it
that's what I was getting at I mean I don't think I mean I wonder if some of those are illegal
well this is the same as as any other situation if you don't understand what the license means
you have a couple choices you can either not use the product you can read the license and
understand it or you can take somebody's word for it and there's so many licenses out there
that reading them all and understanding them all isn't really an option but you can understand
some of the more popular ones a lot of them like the gpl is written to be understood it was meant
to be understood the creative commons licenses are all written and meant to be understood um the BSD
license is probably pretty easy to understand far easier than the gpl gpl's huge to maybe kind
of easy to understand but it's a long you gotta have some patience when you read it well let's
say creative commons and that's an easy one to read and understand yeah actually actually if you
actually if you read the legal code for the for the creative commons yeah it's really a stretch yeah
yeah you have to understand but seriously MIT x11 bsd super central licenses all like five sentences
in each one but you two things in the link to understand it is still difficult to understand
it's probably one of the easiest because of its length the youtube ones quite hard to understand
because i mean you want to put free music on your intros and stuff like that and you always say
that that's free music and what's free music i mean i get you go to the craft commons site and it's
you can put this music on video you can pay for this and then put on video you can add name to
this it's quite some of it's actually quite hard to figure out you're going to read the whole
frickin thing no no the creative commons is pretty easy if you want to put it on youtube you just look
for a one that does not have the um the nc tag on it but what you know that like honestly i mean
i mean i have to people that put stuff on youtube and even even even know what credit commons
yes but what people on youtube do without understanding it has very little
if if any at all affect on what the license actually means and what it's intended to be used for
which actually allowed to do with it just because people get it wrong doesn't mean that we should
say okay screw it okay i got i got to add a correction if you're going to take music and use it
on say like a video or something not only do you want to use the non-commercial nc but the
nd as well you don't want to have the the no no derivatives because that you're right you can't use that
thank you and uh piggy piggy hey hey or you're right son jesus thanks for adding that
or make sure you get licensed from the person that you're getting your music from
this is come although that's a pain in the ass and in that it's someone sees on the on the
demand whether it's why this kind of company outside outside you can use this and download it
this made me know put me in the in the video where it's from then that's fine I mean it's
it's you can do that on youtube if you've got permission from artists to use the song there's
nothing wrong there well not just permission but you need permission and writing which makes it a
license which means you now have to read and understand the license so you're back to your initial
problem right yeah so you or you have to know someone who can read and understand the license and
okay for you who you trust right it doesn't see but it doesn't have to be confusing there's a
couple of if you don't want to have to understand all these things as deeply as a lawyer would have
to understand them there's a couple of guidelines you can follow you use a creative commons piece of
work that doesn't have the nc or the nd tags on it you use gpl software you use bsd software there's
easy easy answers to these complicated problems and if you don't want to understand why you don't
have to as long as you stick with the easy answers once you don't like the easy answer you've got
a lot more work to do and that's for the song and changing your song right it's confusing as
well right well the one thing I was going to say and this actually gets back to that gpl argument
we're having is the one one of the great things about the gpl is you're not allowed to change it
yes I know the license itself is non-free but the the thing about that is when I see gpl I'm like oh I
don't actually have to read this I already know it's like oh it's gpl with this hybrid okay well
I'm just needing under the gpl purpose so I'm fine and it's so you get to this point where the
license is understood as itself so you don't have to worry about this thing to that end mr.
marcus baird as some people know around here I write music and I threw all of it out under
creative comments a while ago so if you need a source just hit me up and that's one of the other
things you can do you can get a personal license from the artist directly sometimes it just be like
you know you have a blanket license like yeah just go ahead as long as you're doing it for like
hpr episodes or something like that well I had a three-second intro but it's just trying to find
something for this fully credit comments that you can use a new tradition quite hot no actually
like they said like someone suggested like yeah yeah you do a Google search okay hey don't
even do that just go to like jimendo and you can actually search by the the the creative comments
license so as far as you search for something that's like a bias a that doesn't have an NC or an
ND on it you're okay yes but when I mention Google okay I don't want to limit this just to music
you said you're a windows user when you search for for software with windows like if you want an
IRC client the thing to do is to type into your Google search IRC gpl windows always make sure you
put that license there and it's only going to return that because if you put the word free in there
the internet doesn't understand the word free wow to be to be honest I don't know if that's really
going to always work considering a lot of people will release gpl software and only be contained
within like the tarball in the licenses file and never really mention it on their site anywhere
useful it's questionable whether you'll actually get anything now the problem is gonna hate fair
point but it's still the way I was saying should be your first try yeah that's true I'm not
particularly use case works pretty well if you just tried it and you do actually get some sensible
results that are you know a lot of gpl options for running an IRC client on windows for example yeah
and the same thing well pretty much holds true for music you search for music and creative
commons and you're going to get something you should get something that's creative common actually
just reminding me of something since we we brought up Google again and this is one of the few things
about Google that is actually really great if you go into their advanced search they actually have
an option for usage rights so you can actually pick what rights you want to have interesting
interesting pro two you even know that William no i'm an infrastructure engineer i don't know
anything about these front end things yeah the infrastructure infrastructure we're we're always
kind of in the back end and dealing with other things yeah i don't know about this these application
things damn it that zero should have been a one all right now that we've i think we've
rat hold this one pretty good uh let's welcome cobert to to the chat welcome cobert to back
well then yeah i slapped a head food didn't have any sex though all right well we'll see when you get
back later it was too expensive these are some very interesting licenses it's gonna say damn it
where's that y'all when you need him 20 to god forecast about licenses oh my gosh we have
an open source oh my gosh so many random open source licenses everyone seems to think they
can invent their own license because they don't like something in one license so they they invent
their own yeah that's up making things really hard for everyone else and they typically get it
wrong there's so many cases where they just don't they do the opposite it doesn't help anybody
it doesn't even help anybody just use a common license you've got three to make everyone
always have to say not many times the people to deal with think about abilities with something that
everyone knows you know if your license is broken that's actually one of the worst parts of
a proprietary software is that you have to worry about all the different rights that you have
if you're going to redistribute things or you know modify things I would say you care to do it legally
I would say a more realistic worry about proprietary licenses is installing it say you install a
piece of software on your company's computer you are agreeing to that license for your entire
company and if there's something in there that's detrimental to your company's business practice
you've just accepted responsibility for that everybody quickly checks their licenses again why it's
nice to see oh it's gpl okay yeah exactly so I know what I can do yeah Marcus the short answer is
stick with gpl or bsd depending on what your purpose is basically well known MIT Apache gpl bsd
and we can pay you say you like being a different use not code well I got a I was at a company
and it's funny like if you're in Penn station Manhattan they had the billboards it's like you know
snitch on your company tell if they've been and you'll get a reward like so if they're using
pirated software you can snitch you have a company wait wait who has this service where you can
snitch on them you probably couldn't find it but there used to be billboards in Penn station and
Manhattan and I signed up with a company that's terrific because if you get fired you know your
your first stop that's that's exactly what happened that's crazy before I started with this
company apparently somebody got let go and they snitched on them and they they were all up to date
and legal on everything but they had to prove it oh god oh so they're legal they just got
audited that's in that the the that branch of it's not really Microsoft but it's the the company
that enforces Microsoft's rights kind of like so far lines yeah so if our lines that's a Nazi soft
even so here's somebody that's completely innocent completely up to date completely legitimate
and legal with everything and they had to prove it and they had to hire a lawyer they had to you know
so they had to go through basically forensic accounting to show that they purchased each one of
these you know licenses for each computer and and you know show document what software was on
what computer and yeah I cost them a boatload of money to prove that there was nothing wrong
I actually thought about doing that to a former employee a former company that I worked for
primarily because I knew they weren't compliant and I was really really tempted when I left
that company to actually call them in I feel like for those kind of things there should have to be
some sort of evidence you shouldn't just be basically have some sort of warrant so to speak I
I agree with some and I know that something was wrong ahead of time because to be charged all this
money for absolutely nothing just ridiculous because that would be a great way to just hurt
businesses go around accusing that you're doing that right now and with the software Nazis come
down upon you they might as I mean that's what I mean they might come down on them but they have no
legal recourse to search your computers without a warrant but what you do is you comply with that
just to keep it out of court because court costs are so expensive it's the threat of litigation
oh well not even does that maybe something in their license that says we can you know investigate
you at any time or something oh shoot yeah you're okay you're okay I mean it probably is right
so you're setting yourself up but the thing is like if someone did that to me you really think
Microsoft's gonna come to my house for two computers you really think they're gonna waste their time
for that no they're gonna go to the businesses depends have you gotten on their nerves recently
yeah really it's selective enforcement it's it's the same no it's not the enforcement the the
NSA my correct enforcement is probably very driven by the monetary gain in their case and for one
guy at his home it's probably not worth it for them you're probably right about that just because
it's probably heavily driven by money now this is back when CDs were all the rage I was working for
a company that we distributed software on CDs and it was marketing tools and it was audio video
you know multimedia CD ROMs that were mastering and we did it all in VB and it was all on not
for resale versions of VB right so there's we're doing like 15,000 CDs quarterly or 15,000
packets of CDs quarterly for years on NFR versions of you know visual studio so technically this
is software you can distribute but nobody can get it running legally yes okay we need to break
here for just a moment to say happy new years to Indonesia Thailand Jakarta Bangkok Hanoi
Phnom I think pen and okay that's a pen oh thank you so happy new years
time to install my windows server 2012 R2 with the visual studio my internet explorer 11
nice proprietary bundle so I've just dug out one of my kids' networks to update it and while I'm
updating it I noticed I had a look in the installer directory the log a var log installer to see
when it was installed and it was installed July 13th 2011 so it's been in existence for two and a
half years and just been updated and updated and updated throughout that time it's quite cool
and it was like my origin store surprised it still runs
crime books and I was going to ask and that will play out by pretty much at my
did I have a lot of that thanks sorry do you say who?
crime books no the crime yes they have updates pretty frequently took from a while
yes it's like chrome it's seamless I was at a best buy and I saw a chrome book I think it was
an HP chrome book you had a seller-on processor 14 inch I think it was $2.99
the acer if I'm not mistaken right acer S720 I believe is the seller-on yes and it's $200 I think
oh $200 yes but it was $199 I think the one I was looking at maybe you're looking at a different one
them yeah maybe because I think this is an 11 inch or something something tiny because I was
thinking about getting a pro my dad it's yes I got to just go on the chrome play store
I see an HP chrome book for $279 just the play store yes they sell chrome books
they some select for you I'm sure they don't sell all of them yeah they're an acer in the UK
they're an acer C7 and the pixel yeah they sell the Samsung ones here
$199 or a thousand pounds yeah the C7 it's a C7 not the S720 that I'm thinking of
C7 is $200 which may or may not have a seller-on I may be mixing up multiple acers hold on
yeah it's the C720 and it's only $200 it's acer so questionable quality but it's a pretty good
deal at the price especially if you want you know the go-go in flight passes and the drive storage
for two years that's kind of a cool you know cool benefit right yeah because they try and get you
all of the internet access benefits so that the machine can be useful the worst thing I think about
the pixel is that it's designed just like all the other chrome books to not have a lot of local
storage and that stink if you want to repurpose it as just a general purpose laptop since the
what is it like 64 gigs of built-in storage is kind of underwhelming on most laptops
yeah I mean I had a tough time fears what maybe it was a year ago they were selling chrome books for
just the same price as a laptop and you get you know 16 gigs of storage where it's on a laptop
you get 500 mega terabyte or 500 giga or terabyte yeah but you're only getting 500 gig if it's
a spinning disk in which case I really don't value spinning disks and laptops it's just too
painful for me because I lose them they just die correct I wish they had like more laptops with
two hard drive bays because you know ideally you'd have a doesn't doesn't HP pretty much only
sell laptops with two hard drive bays once you get above a certain size all of their 15 in
above inch have the two days I have a think pad x2 20 and it's on a single drive bay but it has
emstarter slot so you can put it in the seat also like swap out the CD rom drive and put in a
drive it doesn't have well optical has no one's cool what is the x2 20 again step no book normal
yeah because ideally I mean you'd have a solid state hard drive with your OS on it and then
just like a 5500 rpm hard drive with all your data because they don't know I put two two
two hundred and forty gig SSDs in one normal size like form factor hard drive and the other one
is an emstarter that goes where the 3g dongle would be and that's perfect right the one I bought
has two NGFF PCI express SSDs in it and so I mean I hopefully you'll see more and more of that
since those are such small form factor devices even ultra books and stuff we'll have those
in the future and hopefully you'll get to so popies is it the is it the like the bay that you
with a little button to eject it no it's inside you have to open it up it's under the
under the wrist rest the keyboard hand rest thing there's a little really called micro PCI
express one of those whatever the port is called where you would normally put either a Wi-Fi
dongle or a 3g dongle where you can buy SSDs that go in there I have a 240 gig one in there
right on and you can cause it to to boot off of that drive or do you have to put your
just season just season a little drive huh it shows up in the normal SATA controller
it's interesting I can't be got it set to dual boot so I have one disc with the one two on
on one with windows on but I have all your windows oh yeah I did it because I needed the firmware
update on my laptop but I haven't actually used it for months so I like it see I decided to
think a risky with mine I have two 256 gigs and they're in raid zero wow so it's it's fun things
blaze now is the end is that port as quick as a standard SATA port it actually depends right um
yes for the M SATA uh on mine it's the NGFF and it's a PCI express so it's actually faster for both
of them uh but again that would totally depend on your flash whether you'll actually achieve the
speed of the bus but the PCI express ones should actually be faster in theory at least as far as
the bus is concerned okay good to know thanks man how about Christian can you run a um
YCD like when it's YCD on a Chromebook and a FEST drive to get the adaptation yeah yeah you can
learn this on it the problem is you just have to get it into dev mode and enable the changing
of the bootloader well also most Chromebooks don't have CD drive so you'd probably have
should use usb or something is nobody just said well you can get an external CD drive so that's
kind of over that too well who the heck installs Linux with an actual CD anymore though I feel like
it was to be burning usb's what's he drawing just a link kind of burning it's where I take a
flash trump got one I K one on one four three one year I right I actually install from CDs and DVDs
all the time really yeah because if I give a if I build a computer for somebody and I give him
the computer I want them to have that CD with that computer the one that I installed from just in
case I ever have to do I guess I don't have that I don't have that use case I guess because I'm
mostly doing my installs I don't really do installs for other people yes oh hey I need install
on this box today which USB drive am I going to pull out to install yeah for sure but when I
make a computer for somebody I give them two CDs I give them the CD that I use to install the OS
and I give them the version of clonezilla that I used to make the backup before I gave them the
computer so that when when they say I have a problem I need to restore my first step is to go to
the clonezilla backup and my second is to use that the reinstall CD here's been my problem with my
problem with using a usb to install from there's actually two problems a we have actually seen cases now
where usb devices are actually coming with viruses and junk on them already from the stores and
the manufacturers and there's so there's some problems with that by in and of itself but the other
thing is there's almost no way to actually write protect the usb devices you know usb thumb drives
and stuff and that really kind of bothers me because that means that anything that gets in there
can actually basically be modifying your installation right media yes and I have a very thing happen
on my wife's recovery partition on her windows machine because it is when I reinstall from that it
is not the same machine as when I got it from the factory and that pisses me off okay question
when are you ever using the live CD in a non live environment like I mean if you okay so you're
gonna be really really bad oh hold on I got a question no it's like change the topic you guys
think that keyboards and mouse will be around the 15 years time to be around yeah I mean it's
the quickest way to input text sorry am I better now yes yes you are and they're gonna
pry those things out of my cold dead hands yeah anyway it will be around longer than the mouse
but they'll both be around for a good long while touch and with everything they move to
a tablet now I mean who knows what's going to happen 20 years time to with the following market
I can see a time we don't really ever see the keyboard way just because there's no inefficient
a type on a regular screen but I just don't know touch screen on the tablet letting you use it
no but it's so inefficient so inefficient till today yeah I really have to make some you'd
really have to make some progress in that input technology because you're just so
they're typing on a keyboard then you are on a touchscreen there will be you're right no
we'll always be people who need that keyboard there is nowhere I can agree with you more with
them on this topic especially after this last month I'm trying to type in on the tablet it is
the definition of how if if there is a problem yeah it's just not a problem with this well it's not
such a step I mean I know I know of no no tablet or any touch device at this point that can keep
up with me typing I can type birth speeds of up to 120 points in a minute I know nothing that can
keep up with that and other than a physical keyboard at this point well the main problem I have is
I use control a control Z control blah blah all the time escape shift and I'm trying to do that on
a on a virtual keyboard is crazy frustration where they want to have a platform that's open source
that has a keyboard system that's open source that you know you know poppy sound poppy
back poppy you throw in an optical drive and I'm on board yeah that's happy I already had a good
deal with the tablet it could be start to them canonical right what a DVD drive on my phone
what's happening with the phone poppy and there's a lot of
the level hold on Marcus let I we need to hear Williams point before we move on
with the USB that was it sounded pokey with the USB drive like a minute two minutes ago yeah
have an external DVD drive no but someone's comments about them being like write a bowl and
the thumb drives the USB thumb drives that was you okay okay no I was gonna say you can buy
ones with actual hardware right protect we're it will not allow you no matter what you do to
write to the device or somewhere really source that for me source that for me because I actually
went out searching for that for searching that a couple of years ago and I could not find them
you probably be able to find it in the store you go here I'll show you one that does know if
one's nice you show me one that I can buy from a store online because that was a big problem I
went searching the internet for them and I'd come into a couple of them and I couldn't find them
anymore well here's the other thing is I don't really like the enclosed you beat me to it kangaroo
yeah the kangaroos have a protect switch is a barrier for writing any data to the device when
no matter what physical when we're just in bulk DVDs or 10 cents a day so much is your thumb drive
oh yeah we have a new audio is this going in the net crop that yeah losing some packets it looks
like yeah when it goes your lips yeah your lips go dark when you break up it's not just a microphone
thing your lips go wow wow look on the price of this 20 to 35 for a single thumb drive it's very
it's expensive but I mean if you want this for for it I mean you probably only need one right it's
going to be something you're going to be taking to like windows and stalls and putting fixed tools
on stuff well see the problem was I was actually what it's there for actually here here was the
issue that I'd run into at my job we were trying to send workstations to remote location with a
pre-burnt system that we could actually say to the less than technical people on site here go
ahead and plug this in just reboot the machine and it'll reload well that's going to I mean
literally the cost of that to do this because we'd have to have one for each machine you're now
talking about two or three thousand dollars to do that yeah but I mean if you've got how much
do the machines cost no no I was five hundred bucks I would assume the change in I would assume
the change in cost between the ten dollar flash drive versus the 20 really isn't affecting cost
uh flash drives or under ten dollars no wait sound chaser you could do this a lot more cost
effectively if you if your thumb drive only booted the computer and pointed it at a server with the
image that you're looking for or well but you could change the server is the I guess this problem
well no no here's the issue uh here well I guess here here was the thing I was actually basically
the equivalent of burning an ISO with predefined parameters set up on it for like the networking
stuff and all that because these were actually the it's kind of silly the way they they do stuff but
yeah I see what you're saying accepting that the way things are set up with kickstarting and that
is a little bit different for this environment and you do need a image per machine what you can't
use the same image for all the machines or for half of them or something it really it needs to be
an image per machine because we're talking zero technical people on these sites you know but
basically all they could do is plug this drive in and turn the machine on and not have to type in an
IP address or anything I see I'm confused about your concern about where this uh malware or bad
stuff is coming from is it coming from the manufacturer before you get the the USB coming
so that the industry what are you talking about there are documented cases where drug um
thumb drives coming from manufacturers have had malware on them right out of the box
right why don't you don't know where for an environment auto runs it right it's not something like
I format it on Linux it's going to come up yet no no this is probably getting
like a firm on the device being well but see part of this is I mean they these with some of those
devices I've actually now I'm speculating here a little bit so I don't have a document in case
for me but I thought at one point I'd actually heard that some of the malware and that had actually
been in the firmware of these flash devices in which case even reformatting them that firmware
still exists so I'm not gonna get rid of it okay right you still have a problem of well your firm
on your computer could have the same shoes so I don't know how you know who's full it's going to be
sound sure another uh cheaper alternative and it's not the best alternative but
cheaper as you can buy a USB adapter for an SD card which is lockable and you can use that
they don't solve their lock not truly lockable just wondering SD cards and floppy disks are not
actually lockable I was just wondering is there a way with USB the physical protocol itself to
go in and cost one of the wires after you've written the data not on the USB cable but what you're
saying is there are drives that have those the the pathway the physical pathway to writing
is is disabledable yeah I'm not one of those um hard drives the Zelda do a hard drive
I'm not even sure I don't feel you could fill with ice images and then when you boot when you
plug it in and boot you choose which ice image you wanted to boot that might even be too complicated
I feel like these cases you can be basically you want you want to plug this in and boot the
machine and how it goes straight because we're talking about it has a default it has a default
ice over you can choose you can override it but I suppose the issue is specific to your use case
not like OB for installing you know just a basic Linux install yeah it is a DVD per machine
right a little pocket taped to the inside of the machines come exactly and that's pretty much
exactly where that's where we've got decided to go with this was we're actually going to basically
do an ISO image with a DVD drive DVDs are the best way to go Sunchester if if I might you could
in actual fact booth have a very dumb image on a DVD or a CD that verifies the
the Md5 summer the show some of the DVD are the CD drive we're not a little
reminding usb drive okay starting again hi everybody this can with me perhaps a suggestion
suggest that you boot from a CD and then that's purifies that the usb drive that they modified
that's too complicated though because you'd have to boot way too much software already to the point
where you may as well just boot from this the DVD yeah and realize the case here is we have to make
a lot of use already going to be pretty big yeah but the DVD just need to the DVD can be written once
and because that's a read only memory that's a read only device right but if you write it
in the 5 hashed so can the usb only be written once you can't update it in the same hash
in the case yes you could something on the DVD that verifies the crypto key a public it has a
public key on it it would verify that way and you actually have a public signature on the usb so
you could do updates the usb yes I guess that's viable but hey you have to load a lot of software to
do that I don't think there's anything that's really trimmed down that purpose regardless of how
much software you load and can we're if we're talking about like an an OS sized image how long
does it take to hash something like that and verify it that's quite a while isn't it
no not at all you may be able to do it in layers right well it should be actually fairly small
so you could actually do a very minimal Linux boot which boot the kernel and a small
user land environment that actually has the md5 some and then basically pick the device and
actually pass it through to md5 some but that's still that's still getting a little bit more
complicated than you really need to get with this in my opinion I think the lowest levels the
most complicated part though and on you should be doing with you you shouldn't be doing this on
a dbd yeah we basically have a cd size image that you know we can basically burn a cds it takes
a minute or two to burn a cd and actually put it with a machine so that it's actually there
and it can get shipped out to these remote locations that's where we've decided to go
because that way it's a non-rightable image and it can be used to re-image these machines whenever
they want to the day the day when you can secure boot that's the hell of a day yeah it's been a pain
for me um it's been a little bit more key with um mainly a bunch of and actually the little
smilt ones have been a bit more key lately um they're just still booting and getting the right
I had to reboot a couple times that she get actually properly installed and pick up my boot
that doesn't do it straight off you know you have to do a couple of times and I might not
doing something wrong now there's a bug there's a bug in a couple of the ISOs that are out there
that have to do with dual core machines and if you add a boot parameter of NO LAP IC you can get
me a boot I've got several machines that will not boot on like mint I think mint 15 and one of
the a couple of Ubuntu ISOs it's I find I can fix it there's a book by the band 2 here actually
poppy might know about this you can download on a live CD and it will fix your boot for you
I can't really want the program it's cool um I've I've only just discovered it when I discovered
it's actually saving yeah I know what you're talking about I've seen it before I've actually had to
use that on some new secure boot UEFI shenanigans it's quite good it picks up the Windows
petition as well if you've got a Windows petition so yeah it's what it's called
and I can't remember it some funny name it's a proper proper GUI uh yeah it's not like
typing in a 2.0 it's actually a proper GUI um no I know exactly what you're talking about I need
to find it yeah if you don't see it am I breaking up horribly yeah it's not horribly but a little
bit oh god hey yeah something's really going on here you're right being up for 70
other day lights just kind of I'm gonna see all the new people who joined yeah we just had a whole
bunch of people all kind of jump in the room they better JB it's a few JB people
around me or William but I mean hopefully uh found in the future you'll just tell UEFI
machines to be able to set the secure boot key everything is just going to be on the phone we
wait no you'd be nice that's showing us a desktop I was going to ask Poppy what's happening
by the way it's poppy not poppy probably I'm sorry see you in the next one what's happening
with um what's happening with um he's adorable little puppy that little dot I surely pop I
that's it I think with the phone with the bounty phone with the dot that you can plug into
a monitor and you get a bit up to a battery that's due later in 2014 or early 2015
the full convergence thing is due later because we're focused on delivering a phone for a customer
or two uh right now well I could name the first one no go on now I said I could name the first
customer go ahead that's what he said Joe try oh right on oh it's going to be uh your boss there
to think boss no I mean companies that want to make a phone with the bounty phone yeah well
no I mine was a joke though it was a bad joke I'm sorry I'm sorry why are some people recording
I'm really like the idea of a lot of fun because it's a 24 hour show um I'm
bothering me three just have backups we'll just make sure we have them because we've we've had
all the past people drop off and trying to get a section of show from somebody and paste it in
is such a headache that if we have you know a whole bunch of backups going simultaneously
we can just take a whole chunk uh uh yeah I'm not like really worrying about um recording this
because I'm I'm never be able to hit the fricking thing it's it's I'm not very about putting it on
neutral that's probably uh do you know have any uh word about a tablet perhaps running a bunch of
yes yeah so that's that's after um I think the focus is getting the phone ready for this
you know customers and um tablet kind of at the same time and LTS at the same time so all those
three things are kind of happening in the first first two courses of the year I should add that
the other reason so many people are recording is that with mumble the cost for recording in bandwidth
is zero and the only cost is local high drive space uh great sorry carry on a bunch of tablets
well I'm looking forward to getting one I got a chance to play with John O'Bacon's phone at Ohio
Linux best and it really looks like Ubuntu touch is a pretty sweet system for that kind of a device
and I mean the market for a tablet so Popeye have you played with any prototype stuff
that you're free to talk about no okay so I I my main my main friend is that Nexus 4 so I use that
for testing in QA is it working well in Nexus 5 at all and we haven't pulled it to the problem is
that the there are some middleweb bits that we use including lib hybris which currently only works
on 4 and 4.3 and below and because the Nexus 5 ships with 4.4 we need to port hybris to
oh would I have to roll back my Nexus 4 if I wanted to run it no it should work um because
you end up replacing Android but there is um yeah as I understand it does work on a Nexus 4 that
has been upgraded to Android 4.4 okay um because actually now that I have a Nexus 5 I should
put it on my Nexus 4 play around with it yeah it's it's not finished yet but you know it's getting
people right right right which is good again it's not my it's not my main mirror so I see no
reason not to I'll put it in my server loader what is the phone use the Ubuntu stuff the
Ubuntu phone it's probably the same bootloader that android whatever the heck thing is called forget
so I can run my own bootloader whatever and I can you know flashback or the between android and
Ubuntu aren't they all a common bootloader it bootloaders per hardware it's not um anything like
that right exactly right and a flashback but it's all still a very common bootloader it's probably
you boot yeah yeah exactly the um but it's like a funny you boot Ubuntu released that a
dual boot thing right now so like a couple weeks ago yeah so they put out an app that you can
install in Android and press a button and it reboots into them too and then press a button in
Ubuntu it reboots back to Android that's kind of like little Debbie but not really
because little Debbie I think is a Debbie and install that's on the SD card and I think it runs
side by side it doesn't you don't reboot to it does anyone have to do different it also gives you
a little database just a CA true right right but they make awesome twinkies um interesting question
anyone have like a alter an alternative next disturb running on their phone or tablet that runs
I don't know KDE workspaces something I had an open moco is there one yeah and I know how you can
do that right yeah and 900 count of course I'm just curious when you went as like basically
of a vaulty tablet early no one other hardware I want to see what the KDE workspaces stuff is like
when you could put that on a tablet but I would they wouldn't work for a phone
yeah I guess the tablet is my curiosity do they not have a plan for the phone I thought they
had something no they're not even focusing on a tablet anymore they're doing that board
they were like some kind of distribution issues with the tablets so they're not focusing on anymore
they're going to try to work on the board for now and then when they get the deals with the tablet
they're going to release that so is the board like a developer board yeah it's like a brutal
right okay speaking of which I need to install a raspbmc and try that out yeah you do then you
gotta try xbmc or still have those have been managed to stop a base day for I'm slow
that's it's base day and something of the step previous deal what anything I've done anything
it'll be stayed what previous run is also on most hardware most x86 hardware yeah but he
they weren't saying bsdk or kawaii they were seeing xbmc it's that's the next that's just a
market sorry not correct yeah I have done it I've done the video thing either
at the point is that this for tv so this is for proper as a proper proper the idea is it's for
unattended consoles right it's something that you don't necessarily the keyboard and the mouse
for something that you could control remotely so yeah in my situation it's for a tv or it's
for a monitor that I just want to play videos play media on because it's designed to be a media
center you said xbmc okay that's what I thought you said yes that is actually my project it's kind
of like chromecast style stuff from sinning from your computer to xbmc well cool yeah I'm building
it right now and it's in beta sign up stage in like a week it'll be in beta testing so it's
good you made it you made it at nine minutes before mentioning a project man there on course
well done uh it was easily yeah that means okay any more pork or porky the king of
love mentioning here okay we'll wait why would I work it is I'm gonna say one thing
so what do I do I just want to make it point pork porky porky porky porky kettle hot black
at least it was my I thought my my project rather than amazon can have you tried those
pocky sticks they saw the the Asian food source you're fantastic pocky sticks I've never had
certainly pocky sticks so is this a server then is it basically it's to mimic chromecast so the
idea is you don't need a central server for all your stuff I guess so you just beam content I think
we did okay sorry about that so purpose of server is well the idea I guess with xbmmc is that you
can send content from your computer directly instead of having it like reverse connect to pull the
media down it's sort of like a push model so you push to this thing but for me that's not a huge
deal all my contents on a nap which is all publicly accessible so I could probably just control
xbmc to access that and that would be fine I get Chris Fisher near there before
okay that guy's busy man I know he's doing a cooking thing I'm freaking jupy more casting I think at
the moment Alan jude he'd be fun to talk to he's a curmudgeon he just talks for ever though he's
like this and you can get William I'll see you in a bit guys later right on thanks for joining us
poppy thanks I'll see you next poppy we'll see you next time try this out like two monitors you
I could set up a Raspberry Pi on my desk get this thing flashed and question is where do I have
in this D card slot I guess my laptop this is going to turn into twit isn't it where they actually
try the software while they're on the air with people oh no we're not walking anyone's like
I'm not going to walk into the last live install should I try it here at my desk no we don't grab
my camera then we can talk about photography and I wanted to talk about chickens but okay speaking of
twit when when's the connection with Leo happening he started already what is this like the party
for new years or something at twit yep so yeah he's he's gonna do a 24 hour he's actually copying us
he's doing a 24 hour broadcast damn you look for I'll get it haha
very good very good I saw I saw the tweet earlier that he was starting and I thought about
sending him back a message saying oh so you guys are copying us this year yeah I already
mentioned it on the on the show submission I sometimes so man I really like so you're not making
a live connection with Leo today hey I sent in a there's a form on the page where you can send in
a request to the contact us so we should live connect this chat room with Leo
we're less in contact and miss a special see if you should come in no wait a minute we should not
live connect this chat room to Leo he should connect us if he's interested we're the bigger show let's
be honest wow I agree absolutely we have a track record of doing this yeah yeah he's jumped on our
idea let's not get this one wrong in fact not only he he began the trend of copying our idea
because if you look at Google they're doing a new year's Eve thing on their homepage too
that was also a bad joke guys you don't need to spend any time on that oh I wanted trust me
poke we're pretty good at ignoring you when we need to yay I have 58 I just added it up
all of you uh keyed up a couple of times so we haven't heard anything have you just unkeyed
or do we not hear you I can help you out I need some help I'm good at can anybody yeah may now
yes now we can do how you don't do long time yeah and two bad things how are you guys
life's life's getting better now it's been pretty bad for last couple of months yeah
a nervous breakdown yeah yeah so I'm just kind of getting back from that really
yeah welcome back then don't rush I'm even yeah take it easy and it's been quiet for a while um so yeah
I just have a quiet new year and uh join you guys here on the the HPR channel oh I don't think
that's going to be good for your recovery talking about like everything from Mara on the
cluster all sorts and the coin made by coin I don't wait a minute all sorts are Auschwitz
yeah we were talking about hydroponics you made the leap there and assumed we were talking about
marijuana come on you so set the stuff that makes plant plants grow I think I'm going to start
talking about lighting how how how to make a lighting better yeah I mean I staggered spin up now
all the one thing you can do to relax and not be so stressed out is to record a show for HPR
but don't edit it because that'll stress you right out yeah yeah I do a podcast at the moment
uh do the full circle podcast and probably um the most stressful part that is the editing
so you just ask Peter 64 you never edit that's all I mean you know Peter 64 has got it right
in that respect so he's a little Australian thing when you made it let's go look at yeah basically
just randomly paste in a didgeridoo and your chances are better than 50 50 that you're going to
bleep out one of Peter 64's first words and now your editing's done hey you didn't paste that
that was live cheater oh man I really want to try raspy mc but I'm too lazy to get the pie out
I haven't heard there's pie I'm too lazy to reach behind me grab my pie put it on my desk
try out an installer you're making me hungry now I was gonna say there's definitely a dirty joke
there but I don't want to be the one to make it where's mobile backs when you need her she'll
make that dirty joke for us remember wise teens in the pool after about 10 hours of talking it does
hey save it tell my wife guess on what yeah the wife's getting up in a bit and half
51 hey how's it going folks 15 your week hey all the way from the south what's up 51 50 oh here we
go to south again yeah I slept about an hour later this morning then I then I thought I would
you understand me 51 because I'm talking really fast apparently you're talking pretty
normal speed man yeah but you're used to my fate when you mean you talk faster than me
no but you slowed down to ask the question so it's a tragedy yeah you did
that's like yeah it's really hard to slow your voice down
so much like you gotta you just gotta you know keep it in mind whenever you talk
yeah pretend you when you push the button to key up pretend you're John Wayne
no I have a better one pretend you're an American and you're talking to somebody you think
is stupid hello hey perfect thanks Marcus I appreciate it you just gotta gotta down
it's hard you gotta you gotta find a balance you gotta listen to yourself a couple of times
and like get an idea of what the pace really is you know in your head because you pace it in your
head way differently than what you might sound like so you just got to kind of like play around
with it figure out what works the best record yourself to sort of get an idea for what your pace
really is how people are actually doing you then it's a little bit easier I think you guys get
used to me after well I'm not as bad as I used to be I'm with the interrupting I think the
better you and unseed faster you can talk with people still understanding you we don't want to
get used to you we want you to fix it yeah it's easier if you fix it because then newcomers don't
even have to think don't worry about it there's just 300 billion people on earth why put the burden
on them if you listen to somebody with an accent after all I could use to it yeah that's it
yeah the point is he needs to do more shows for HPR if you don't ever make it everybody
gets used to the accent it's good for the spade it just got guys with the spade me lucky everyone
else I pissed off the admin his admin and he I suppose it's non-slave so this whole conversation
this whole conversations remind me of the old commercials with the guy who used to talk
really fast but you could actually understand him really well I like welcoming people into
rooms like hello the good you know admins normally get annoyed with me doing that and ban
me but as long as there's no admins on the suite not for it it's okay as long as you're not
interrupting people to do it you're interrupting more people than I am yeah that's so good I say I
look I'm a big brother now I don't get a lot of other stuff to do today we're coming from various
different sides of the planet so I don't think it's all the dough at the lake are intentionally
talking over all the people so yeah it's hard sometimes with the latency one trick you can do is to
watch the screen to make sure nobody's lit up but when you study people in the room it's quite hard
to get that little gap in the between the lips well the problem well gotcha the thing to do is to
flash your if you're using push to talk like you're supposed to you can flash your lips and you
you'll notice that sometimes poke you'll say yeah brooms been wanting to poke in for a while that's
what you do you can flash your push to talk button and that says that you want to talk it other
people have to yield to you but it generally works well it's my game so boy the face is the looks
at the same time as someone else after they spank it spank it spank it a bit the night to go
the lounge last time I thought somebody I got arrested thank you for going there Peggy
and we're not trolling people off I mean no no no I can't even say it no no welcome
Nido Nido Nido you want to see it doesn't wait for the American English for a while
you want to talk about a guy with a radio voice that's Nido how you doing man
oh well yeah for the push to talk experience that broom is talking about you need you either need
somebody to be like a moderator in the room which gets kind of hard after a while and you
can't really follow links or you need people to try to pay attention to those lips which that can
eat up a whole screen too if you let it and then you get that silence when someone actually
can everyone starts talking which is like oh silence is fine though because everybody's catching
up everybody's thinking of something to say and it doesn't come across on the podcast anyway
because you edit it right out of audacity with an automated little thing it's no work
but when you get silence everyone is thinking about what to say so then you get 20 people say
something at the same time straight after someone else sees it no no or you're lucky and somebody's
talking about not pressing the push to talk button and not actually making any sound that happens
everybody but especially Nido especially Nido and Ken yeah I know hello is this
sound acceptable I'm not really sure whether I'm here or bold it's very acceptable yeah it's
quite quite excellent okay well happy new year to everybody you too man thank you
happy new year wait see silence also let's new people join in I was going to say too that
silence really is the least of our problems the more silence we have the better the show winds up
being because people feel more free to talk instead of everybody competing to get their words
and we've got plenty of time for everybody to say what they'd like the silence actually is helpful
yeah I thought it was funny in the mailing list again this year they put in oh we'll have the
music server queued up for those times when nobody's in the room actually talking and it's like
we were we were afraid of that in the first year but since since then what has that ever happened
if we got used to it with J.B we did he people at the awareness point it's always like this
and we only had one room so it was like we we just had to get used to talking after all didn't we will
you and 50 we did use the music server earlier this morning because there were some gaps in there
that we actually wanted to fill some space the thing is out the thing though Marcus is that if you
really wanted to move people around you didn't all want to talk about the same thing you could just
branch off a new another channel and that's what people do like if people are playing Tetris they
branch off they go and do a different room because no one wants to hear about that but for unplugged
everyone wants to talk about the show and so it's inevitable that you have one room what's unplugged
you got a link for the show notes you actually write up show notes for that now I mean a link to
unplugged for our show notes all right but yeah 50 150 it had a really good point even though we
did use the music for maybe two and a half songs earlier the first year we did this I loaded up my
mp3 player to be ready for silences and I don't think we got to play one song in fact we had to
specifically make everybody stop talking so that we could get a live song in that guitar man
up to the white man did for us yeah I remember you were wondering about if it's just gonna be you
sitting there all day long so I figured I didn't know how it was gonna go so I said what I was
I committed trying to get as getting as much as I could that first year but just
there was a problem no it's it's been good the H the the HBR community has been so great
I mean even really from the start but especially you know when Ken stepped up and
became our main cheerleader I know he doesn't like to be called much more than that even though Ken
is much more than that to most of us but I mean ever since then HPR has been such a fantastic place
and the New Year's Eve show you're right it never was a problem there's so many people around who
were just you know good people fun to be with and all who wanted to you know participate hey
Poki don't worry Ken won't be able to find that unmute button to actually dispute that comment that
comment it's one of the servers quite quite good though you've got 10 different podcasts and everyone
just comes in here to check it's quite easy oh I bet you'll be hates in here just talking to
people about you know with different ideas about things and different podcasts and different
different views on stuff and that everyone's pretty pretty freely in this sort of this like
disabled choice cut line Poki I think your tea is done I don't mind if I need to put another
pot on myself I wonder if the uh twit network 24 hour show is going as swimmingly as ours
I need to watch quick they're not professionals like we are everyone tells me to go and listen
to them yeah you don't need to pay attention to that I've tried I have a hard time with that one
hello Poki I finally got to push the talk thing to work thanks so much for the help yeah
Kuro Kuro welcome how you doing good good yeah I just came back I just put my son to bed
I'm from Singapore so it's I think it's about 3 a.m now so happy New Year everybody
Happy New Year so wrapping up you know what you'll be decided to be here yeah happy New Year Kuro
yeah thanks you went on the uh uh can't say no I'm going to be the right Tura Tura
sorry we're we're outside you you went on the uh oh oh okay uh this is like
my vacation is in India all right doesn't say we're about to know what your problem on this
no mark as he sits in Singapore yeah yeah yeah I'm from Singapore um actually I've been um I
listened to um the last year's um uh New Year Eve um show as well uh last year I wanted to be here
but um last year my son was one year old and it's kind of hard so now he's two and he's uh
much um much older now and it's things are much more easier now
that's cool you must have heard 5150 he's been asking for people from age of since we started
yeah uh yeah I don't know I yeah it'd be it'd be much more fun if um some um people from
Singapore or Asia are here but I don't know I don't know why they're not here
in-fight them yeah yeah it's it's kind of weird like I don't know maybe it's just me but uh
yeah even in my work we have people using Linux but um the my colleagues um then they don't seem
to be two so I mean so into Linux that they want to you know um spend a New Year's Eve
yeah yeah yeah so yeah I don't know um it's kind of surprising I think
well that's okay so you listen to Hacker Public Radio a lot
uh yeah every now and then um yeah um the shows uh of course um um uh uh uh uh uh uh
Libre office stuff um Puppy um Kato and Ken Fallon and yeah pretty much
cool thanks yeah yeah you're welcome um yeah um well uh I started Linux like um two years ago and um
uh people around me that I don't have that many people um who can teach me stuff and I stumbled a lot um
so um I turned to podcasts and I tried to listen to as many podcasts as I can and HBR has been
one of the most helpful so far yeah so are you doing through YouTube pretty much about Linux
so I go on contact with the e-chafers and pretty much just think you're doing me a source of the
other way around they know I discovered a podcast after that so I went the other way
okay YouTube as well let me how you learn as long as you learn about Linux it's fine
I'm sorry yeah yeah yeah yeah it doesn't make how you learn Linux if you like actually find
it sometimes feeling really good by yourself and just working out things you know even if
get it wrong the first time it's actually quite a achievement when you actually figure out how
install something and build it with something and install something fully on your machine and use
it and stuff I love like finding out any things about Linux and not open source software and
what stuff's coming out and that's sort of why I actually got interested in it and it gave me
something to do as well but I must be time which I quite like and I could do it for free
so another reason
what? don't worry don't worry it's all good
I'm sorry I'm probably yeah I'm having a hard time I'm getting what you see
I just spoke slower I just said that I got into Linux because this gave me something to do
and it was something interesting like I could learn things on a daily basis and it was free
I didn't have to pay for anything I could do it in my own time and that's I got really quite
involved the whole thing I like to make people and I like to talk to people and that's another
reason I got into voice chat and everything else and I think that's what really got me involved
and if I hadn't got involved I probably wouldn't have never discovered Linux well and I've got
to know all the YouTube is quite well and now all the podcast is so yeah it's been quite useful
actually yeah yeah I would have it a little bit of free stuff not free as in three
years I mean three years in three years great but free as in free species even better and actually
um jumping into Linux from accessibility point actually my vision has been deteriorating
and so yeah as Jonathan Nadu could tell Jaws is so expensive and it's when I heard of Orna then
I just take the plunge immediately and level up back and I love it it's been great ever since
yeah I'm someone that's always loved software hardware and I think that's what really got me into it
um I'm not really into the BBSs and stuff and I was yeah I go and when I was about 18 19 we all
through the you know the Tories and stuff like that my friend had a BBS I think that's what got
me interested in software and hardware and I just wanted something where I didn't have to pay for
stuff to learn things and I discovered Linux through watching YouTube video um and it was on
free software actually heading to be a fun too and it was indeed was doing an adventure walk so I
did a full store and really had it put back so let's see how I discovered it's about three four
years ago now yeah cool correct correct don't worry so much about not being able to understand
Marcus just before you arrived we had a rather long discussion about that yeah it's all right no
one understands man okay also too I think that's quite late and um the later I get the worst I think
I talk slower but tend to remember when I get should be um go without sleep for a long time
look if this little web was here he put you to shame on the understandability
I don't like going into podcasts if you guys are doing a podcast I'd never go into them I go
into them listen and I'll talk to you guys after the podcast finished by I like talk during the
podcast at all so I know I upset store with ease in here all this a web would talk about is some
odd jokes and then he would somehow magically in his own way bring it back to the Lord of the Rings
and bring up in life again I'm on five foot four I should have sex sex I think I could have
applied for the rings other being a bright dwarf time to bring up twin pain file managers
you want actually I just saw in Google plus something um that's what east uh I can't remember
the link you know this is looking at earlier find it
not split pain file managers midnight commander
but um sunflower dual pain file manager you go huh I didn't heard of that one no it's very new
I just just came up in Google plus today I favor the cider myself
get that sunflower I think I saw that a year ago or so I have never seen it it just looks
um it looks quite nice it's from all of breed well not a list the old gnome 2 show has a dual pain
mode well that's what this a web was talking about last year's they took they took it out in uh
gnome 3 when when they when they set so-called simplified not a list yeah we got that see and I've
been using space FM which basically has everything you could want in it as far as I'm concerned
I've been using nautilus and I like it a lot except it's missing one thing and that's when I'm
connected to like a somber share it doesn't show up in the list of available drives
though you can open uh you can open it through something like jiggle-o and it'll open in the correct
window you just can't like get there on your own I don't know why that is it's obnoxious
if I'm not mistaken there should be a it should be mounted either at slash run slash I believe
users slash your name slash media and then something or at your home folder and then slash dot gvs
and then there's a list of all those kinds of things which can be mounted like that
once you open it when I advise you to check there perhaps it's just over there
yeah I'm looking now 30 seconds oh happy new year yeah let's do it happy new year's
countries me and mar and the koko's islands yang on oh boy somebody else's turn
is it napiada napiada or napiada mandalay I can do that one
bantam five four yeah happy new year happy new year yeah okay we need to stop the new year
we need to stop and do recording sync real quick here the last one actually comes around I think
we just kind of they all slow motion when we say it because it's so tight yeah when everyone
stopped and started recording there was the craziest crashing of sounds on my headphones
you need to turn those off that was pretty funny though the sounds were funny it's a lot better than
one it when I had to text to speech on it's a lot it's a lot better than when I lost an hour
of the show last year and had to cut it out from class who's recording now takes the speech can
be quite funny sometimes especially if you're doing stupid jokes until you suspect you use
quite few people doing it at the same time did you say stripper jokes stupid jokes takes two
speech and stupid jokes okay I think I've been on too long yeah I think I have to
maybe I'm a jerk but I like doing that when people have their text to speech on and their
automatic microphone key up is on I like to type embarrassing things in there
not this show you don't I thought about it earlier somebody's was on early I did think about what
it yeah that was funny when we did that the one stopped at rescinding everything and I think it
was correct or was having problems so so his text to speech was going off as we were all
switching off and switching back on our recordings that's been fixed now so everything is working
yeah I'm just saying it was humorous that's all oh uh cool uh by the way uh anyone tried
on call six yet no but I I'd love to hear about it I've been dying to do something because I'm
really not happy with um uh the samba share have you tried it uh not really uh I tried all
got five but not six yet and how's five how do you like it it's um yeah pretty cool I think
what are you doing with it that you're liking about it just put stuff there and then um just
trying things actually um uh actually um I put it on on uh QB board which is a small um air and
a single board computer um just to try things out uh it's a bit slow there but uh yeah it works
has anyone tried the new fedora thing with the boxes with um that looks a bit like virtual
box that takes a bit like virtual box um fedora 20 here that new thing in it where um you could do
like virtual boxes with other distrares but wasn't virtual boxes and completely new party
not really okay well I just wanted someone to try it as far as no one's fedora pain and
it sounds like a kvm thing maybe uh it correct does it do your own cloud does it do automatic backups
or do you have to sync them somehow or how's that done um yeah I haven't tried the uh
automatic syncing thing yet um so far I just um going login from a web browser and then uh
upload stuff there and then uh download them if I need to but uh most of the time it's just uh
upload some videos into it and then um watching it watching them on another machine or something
just uh again I'm going in through a browser and then uh click on uh the the file and then
it will just play inside the browser okay cool now do you can you upload files through the browser too
yeah um but there's a limit like 539 mb or something I don't know why is that um I don't know why
the number sounds yeah or maybe some setting somewhere that I need to um you know increase or
something yeah it's probably just a config file uh huh oh by the way um as I do the push the top
thing uh there's this uh wood wood wood thing um that that sound that didn't come true right
no no we're not here and that come through okay okay cool you can get rid of that that's in the
settings somewhere um it's it's kind of that'll be your key up sound yeah uh yeah okay yeah I
thought I saw that that just now but uh it's okay I I like this on effects um but uh yeah just
wondering if it's actually yeah you guys are hearing it or not uh it's actually my first time
I'm bogeying with mumbo yeah yeah no we we're not hearing it um don't need to let them run
topics that sounded like a wall that was okay we've been talking about we've been talking about
Jonathan's fundraiser is anybody uh yet mentioned the uh internet archive fundraiser
they're having after the fire now they actually it's a million dollar fundraiser and they've
already beaten that by two hundred thousand dollars uh but uh the neat thing is I guess in the
last few days they've they've come up with a uh supporter who will match all contributions three
to one in other words if you give them twenty dollars archive dot org gets 80 well find that guy
and give him Jonathan's number yeah that's a good point yeah I mean if they've already met their goal
I mean not that I begrudge them anything but if they've already met their goal and you've got some
some money to give out uh you know Jonathan's trying to do some good work here with Orca
starting with Orca I should say he's he's you know it's not exclusive
but I would uh and I have told him I think it makes a whole lot of sense to focus Jonathan does have
a tendency to go off in six different directions at once and you rarely get good stuff done that way
yeah he uh he does he brews out so to speak I haven't been on yet he was but he didn't say anything
I think his wife and son are sick um has anyone managed to get Orca running on drosbury pie
I don't think anybody has done that yet but we were talking about that earlier using the raspberry pie
as like a wearable computer you know having no no screen on there would would obviously require Orca
uh yeah that's very interesting yeah anybody read oh I'm sorry to interrupt uh is anybody read
as anybody read on uh Ken Fallon's page uh the john marie digs who is the one programmer who is
working on paid to work on Orca sort of her response to uh Jonathan and the fund raising because
what she says a lot of stuff is not Orca it's it's actually integration between Orca and other
applications in other words that rather than fixing Orca something needs to be fixed in the other
apps and she lists thunderbird gecko evolution lever office java canoe cash abbey word and audacity
as examples oh yeah that's that's been a known issue for a while since since the community's been
looking at this and um I forget who did the interview with her a while back but I mean it goes deeper
than that I think there was even some stuff in in uh in how no no how I'm sorry uh bro help me out
here I'm listening keep going thanks like you dev or something yes thank you I think yes yes
you were saying there were even like you dev events that weren't being logged correctly or that these
the programs like 501 50 was just mentioning weren't sending signals to you dev and there is some
systemic issues with it well the only the only reason I broke in like that I didn't want to
rail things from where you guys were going uh actually using Orca but don't worry about it yeah well
you were you were you were talking about uh you know Jonathan not you know maybe trying to do too
much at once and it seems to me that maybe maybe someone hitting some of these other packages uh
guys we can reach out there developers if they could you know put in the time to those
projects uh might do as much to help uh Orca as uh you know higher end developers to work on Orca
itself it certainly would but having Orca improved and having more attention paid to it doesn't hurt
they're in getting those guys to do something as well and if they can get the campaign going
or indiegogo and give them money to help them give them you know to help sustain the development
then that'd be awesome yeah and if the problem is that um you know Libra office doesn't send an
event to you dev when you backspace over a capital Q um certainly it's worth paying someone like
Joan Marie to spend the time to email them and let them know that that's the problem or to file a
bug report uh you know well not all of it is going to be direct fixes it all helps it's all work
in that direction oh can I can I say epic screen name rotten corpse thanks welcome back rotten
corpse you know my my own view uh and i'll preface this by saying I am not a developer and I don't
write code for a living but it seems to me that for many of these other projects um you know this
may not be a huge priority for them uh so simply filing a bug may or may not get you anywhere
but if you if you had a developer who could send them a patch and maybe that's something that this
project could be supporting right right and i was kind of getting at that uh as well you know
with a fundraiser meeting its goal it's going to draw some attention to it and it may
um it may bring this up as a higher priority on on some people's lists who wouldn't otherwise be
involved the campaign itself brings people attention to it because for example i mean i've
known about Orca for years and i always thought this isn't an awesome idea but the development for
Orca's print very slow i mean steady but very slow and very under the radar and now they're
getting a lot more attention so even just creating this campaign was a good idea yes exactly
and i was surprised to hear an interview with Jonathan uh that uh yeah i i've been thinking
asking him because i i knew uh Linux scene will be weak on say competition for programs like dragon
naturally naturally speaking going the other way around uh using a voice interface uh to the
computer and i i was surprised to learn that it it seems like uh jezras project is uh on the
on the leading edge and i should remember what that is it escapes me uh the time of the district
speak up now that wasn't it speak up wasn't jezras product project well trying to i can find out
easy enough give me a minute okay i thought that was it i thought it was speak up was it the
were you talking about the distro that orca and the other abs were combined to make no no it was voice
input um jezra wrote something and um john cult uh really got it working really well and it is
yes basically just voice input nice blather that's what i was thinking of okay thanks sorry
that's a nice name would speak up then how did i get that wrong you made me second a hey buddy which
which i think was uh uh it probably well i think there was also a speaker wasn't
doesn't that the e-max um voice stuff maybe i'm wrong which which clatu was here yeah clatu would be
the guy for that one yeah okay maybe maybe that's it um speak up is uh i got an an output system
okay so um you can hear everything that's directed at the console so essentially it gives you
more control over the output okay all right well so i got it completely wrong uh how about
e-speak e-speak and speak up different right yes yes e-speak is the voice generation that's the
actual text to speak text to speech engine and speak up i think in the i think speak up would be
what inputs to to e-speak right is that right uh i say okay speaker connection okay maybe i
could be wrong i could be e-speak is a synthesizer kind of like um you know like the text to speak
the text to speech town and over the speak to text kind of thing whereas uh speak up is essentially
gives you more control over your output so you can control things easier and it's kind of like um
pavu control on steroids i see um yeah and i think i think the thing that clatu had done with e-max
now that i'm thinking about it i think that was just called e-max speaks or something like that
yeah does anyone ever get e-max speak to word um i tried um it's not here but uh the
documentation is um i think very outdated uh i got it to work clatu would be the person to ask
about the success what he was doing was getting that to work for some people oh cool i got it to work
with oralux which was um Jonathan's project a while ago i recall correctly i'm sorry how do you
spell it or or alux o-r-a-l-u-x the problem is that that it it was a distro meant for um
um give me a second it was a distro meant for blind users it was packaging everything together
in a way that so that it all worked um i don't think it's necessary anymore and i don't think
it's been kept up today i see uh is it something uh a package that um must be there uh it was a
new live city i see okay but i have seen it work yes it actually booted to e-max speak which is
kind of scary when you when people make all those jokes about how e-max is its own operating system
it was in this case sounds very cool yeah it doesn't look like a distro anymore it
looks like an association to foster digital accessibility using solutions based upon free
software and open standards so uh the appear to be working towards the uh accessibility goal but
they're they don't appear to be a distro anymore i don't even see a download link i think the reason
they stopped was that a lot of the tools had started them mature to such a point that it was
just better to get everything upstream rather than having to make it at your own distro
the person to ask would be i believe Jonathan but i did play with it and it was fun
i was doing some research for based on like the orca stuff if you go to uh if you look for like
the options for windows based things they range from a five hundred dollars to two two thousand
dollars i mean jaws freedom scientific products i mean i'm i'm not sure which which one but there's
about six or seven that are competing with each other and they're pretty much all incredibly
jaws is one of them yes yeah um my sister um got me uh one of uh freedom scientific product
it's not jaws it's uh forgot what the product name is but it has a camera and a stand and
you can take picture of uh text and then uh just do all CR and speak it up um so that is uh
two hundred two thousand dollars wow yeah that gives me more respect to orca and what they're trying
to do yeah well the main reason those tools are so expensive isn't because it's generally because
it's not the user it's pain form it's usually a government or something like that that doesn't
really excuse it but it kind of explains it that's the same reason that college
educations are so expensive in america and it came with three three three keys so if i installed
on one computer then i use up one key and if i install it on another i gotta use up another key
yeah that's messed up it's funny it's funny that they gave it with keys at all because they could
have just built a dongle into the camera yeah and the camera doesn't work with Linux i
i mean i tried to plug in but uh just won't recognize it's proprietary camera that's interesting
what also because they probably don't have it they have like a uh a driver work where i'm at
make that work i wouldn't imagine so i mean you guys remember the the ted talk on the skywriter
which was the other way instead of the the camera reading something and pointing out to you it
would read your i movements so if the only thing you could do was move your eyes that could be
translated into effectively mouse movements and then use the PlayStation 2 i toy for that was was
this the i missed the first part of what you said um it's called a skywriter i think the site is
always really slow to get to was this the thing that was like encryption on your screen and you'd
read a page of text and wherever your eyes were pointing was decrypted but the rest of the page
was randomly printed now this had to do with people who had a ls blue garyx disease oh okay
their their muscles degenerate to the point where the only thing they can do is move their eyeballs
in their sockets oh i think jonathan talked about a thing like that um that actually runs on
Linux and works i think it may have been the skywriter i know that they were doing everything
with the uh documentation and everything was open they were just using the readily available
PlayStation 2 i toy which is just a camera hey hey um we missed a timezone here yeah we missed
time did yeah um we should have already done bangle dash and some regions of russia
daca almatte bishkek tymphu so happy new year guys yeah happy new years what we did is we did
we did me and mar and cokos islands etc uh on the hour and we should have done them on hour half
hour and then we should uh on a half an hour before we did them and we should have done bangle dash
when we did those other ones yeah so we kind of slipped that up and we've got another actually we've
missed two now i look at it because we also missed uh napal caught my new uh berat nagar pokara
so happy new year to those as well yep and they should have been on our quarter hour
so we missed them by about five minutes so happy new year to fall it's got another group coming
up in seven minutes wait this is harder than it looks it's harder when we miss a time
well the first year we did it uh we said basically we said happy new year every time we crossed
the the hour mark or we tried to and then if anybody was in the room from a place that that at
you know across the the date line uh you know we did it them for them but boy doing it for
everybody like that it's it's too easy to miss some isn't it you guys need to be a little more
coordinated on making sure we catch the time zones it's weird that the the earth is 24 hours
around but there's at least 38 time zones i would advise keeping it simple yeah we're trying man
we're trying we're trying to be simple but accurate which i think we've kind of blown that one
already you know you guys need noisemakers for each time you hit a new time zone pegwell go for it
pegwell's the ultimate noisemaker i'm gonna leave that one alone well you would say that
what i'm not prepared i didn't say he made the ultimate nois
all right who had the yellow keyboard last year i am about no day what's going on
i don't work you pecky with all your expensive cameras can you take a picture of that thing and send
it to us no okay it's a proprietary secret did somebody have a keyboard last year i don't
remember that yeah later on in the thing somebody broke out some Yamaha keyboard and started
playing all the design i think that was me that was a pre-recorded thing i don't think it was
going to be playing keyboard yeah i think ten found that that was a a public uh public
public domain it was so it was old i think i have a midi like a midi recording or something
no no no it was just old it was like a phonograph recording if i remember correctly
oh okay well there's another wall i've been we've been so excited about talking i realized i'm
like 30 minutes or 90 minutes overdue for lunch well we've got to fill three minutes before our next
time zone what should i get for lunch i don't know but i'm right with you after this one
isn't there an app for that just got to be a hundred apps for that there's the don't get
donuts one it's got to be a McDonald's one and jeez that's a big wall about his sandwich
i'm gonna go ask dr go oh yeah we need to talk about penguins sandwich so penguins tell us
about this wonderful sandwich that you were taunting us with earlier in the day is this is this
is this g rated i doubt it see what i did was i took a frying pan i put some butter in it
now it took two slices of bread i put a cheese blend in it which was Colby Monterey Jack
then i toasted it and it was delicious yeah i'm not really with you on that one so
they made it you had a cheese sandwich yeah you're dude you're so white trash you are
hey i used to cheese blend right that makes me middle class no okay sorry you're so upper white class
i mean white trash no no no this just i mean come on a grilled cheese sandwich is comfort food
that's all it is it's not a trash thing at all have you seen pegwall he's never been uncomfortable
the day in his life well i won't even touch that one no i just like busting on pegwall did
give some permission to bust on me later yes after i've gone out gotten horribly drunk and come back
you have money for that because i don't you could try drinking airplane fuel it's probably
cheaper than good liquor i'm good yeah that's my only resolution is to be uh drunker than
a football web on this podcast i can safely say i think you've succeeded when he hasn't tried
dude it's new yeah just wait no excuse perhaps he's referring to past
incidents i may or may not be i'm not even gonna go there come on it's midnight somewhere
it's also 530 somewhere and one of these half zones we've missed
hey i found it okay yet it's old Langzine and it was played by like the marine
band or something it wasn't super old it was just uh public domain because of who played it
oh cool so well we've got a quick break here we should say happy new year to
india shrelanka new deli mumboi colcata bangleor happy new year happy new year happy new year happy new year
happy new year happy new year happy new year yeah so i've got the file but i don't have the uh
resources to play the file this year so if anybody wants it just let me know where to send it
hey pokey email it to me real quick any or can you put it someplace that can get to it
yeah i can probably email it to you without a problem okay i can pull it up onto my machines since
i've got the music stream set up already well guys i'm gonna go uh rejoin you on the other side of
lunch and i'm actually pregnant i go ahead and go grab some lunch myself so i'll be gone for a little
bit uh next time zone is up at the top of the hour all right i'm gonna abscond in five for some
food but since k-wisher has said repeatedly that we're not allowed to talk about food and i'm not
exactly sure why i think he's referring to last year's uh show where the food conversation got
a little bit derailing we overdid it it's all as as one tends to do with food well a participant
actually really rat hold the whole thing now you can't blame it on one guy that was lots of us we
kept going down into it it was totally my fault okay well as long as you're willing to accept the
blame for it yeah pegwall i'm always willing to accept the blame no some people want to do for the
no some people when and the food stuff a lot less time but it made it interesting didn't it
well speaking of food i just got back from the butcher there's a great butcher here in Palm Beach
and i just bought three fillets i know we're gonna have it tonight or tomorrow here we go
yeah and with that i'm gonna go make my lunch i could tell you all about the turkey and the
brisket that i've smoked in the last month all that sounds great okay because now that's
like hacking together like that's almost a show right there go for it okay you still be there since
five o'clock cool times morning but there is tech to this i learned how to stay here i learned
how to make the red wine reduction on youtube yeah see the red wine reduction that's not that hard
but like tell us about your smoker setup your actual setup well go ahead or gummy you're breaking
up pretty good and you've got a a hell of a lot of background noisy in the car no i was next to
the microwave heating up my own lunch oh that's better oh i was going to say that a smoker was too
noisy but that would be too funny okay go on well look at these things that 5150 has with the
microwave it's that NSA agent again yeah it's all here now anyway my setup nothing nothing fancy
it's a brinkamun smoking grill that if you look on youtube you can find some modifications
and yeah they do work mainly it's just punching holes in the fire pan and the lid to get a little
bit more air flow through it raise the temperature a bit that really does help but uh yeah that's
a neat little unit it's only like 50 60 bucks and once you get the hang of using it now it's great
it takes a bit of care and feed and like any smoker system but you put some stuff in there and
keep some water in the pan it's going to be delicious nice i was considering defrosting
some venison and frying up a steak sandwich for lunch and now i think i have to you guys
reading good lunches today hey i just read an email from the guy who created QB board he's
creating another board called the Ratsarok the Ratsarok is quad core air and board so looks like
it's now available finally all right we're back on topic there was a topic
there is now and quad core air and board sounds good actually yeah i think the website is
ratsarok r-a-d-x-a dot com so anyone talk we were waiting for you Ken welcome back Ken
you know we figured you must have something on your mind and you're just waiting for a break so
we were waiting for you and he found the unmute key finally uh funny funny chat he's been talking
the soul time you missed it all the time you just want me so i could hear you i could speak
with you could be oh dear dear dear everything okay everything going cool now you missed a couple
time zones the everything's been good yeah we haven't had any complaints so i'm assuming all the
streams are up and all that they appear to be having a few for nine right i'm gonna go for the kids to
bed and uh yeah it's been great when i come back and do the community news how about that great
sure well i can no fireworks this year yeah they just set them off now is it i thought we had the
community news um a little over an hour for now okay that's when i'll be back well we're going
to talk about them um i'll throw in a topic here and see if everyone wants to jump on me i
just removed Linux mint in favor of Ubuntu 1310 okay what was that yeah poppy's not around anymore
hope he's not around what on this you mean yeah on the show he was here earlier okay yeah was that
you said you removed Linux mint yes it was have you given mangero a try it's kind of like
the mint version of arch it's very nice have you given the this try put in this name a try
i've tried a number of things i'm actually finding i really like unity oh my gosh
that's the best reaction yet well that's the beauty of Linux everybody can choose what they like
now yeah unity now that's the thing isn't it um who really likes unity well apparently it's
going to be aimed at the you know it's this game that the general public yeah so um with my
luck few few of us are going to have an event next year and well yes one of the distributions
and interfaces is yet unity and it's going to mean that the general public and well we
interested see if actually people do like unity or not from the general public who don't really
know about Linux or probably not assert you know yeah my theory is that the people who
were used to other interfaces and have been using Linux for a long time are less likely to
appreciate unity but from what i can see people who come to it without preconceptions it works fine
yeah but that would apply to pretty much any interface in a way i mean you could give somebody i
think most people really the main thing is as long as they can open up their Firefox whatever so you
could give them kd could give them cinnamon you could give them mate you could give them xclxd you
know you can get them from nearly anything and i think as long as they they can get into the kind
of programs they want to use that then pretty much any interface would be probably good enough
really yeah i think that's that's probably true um but my view is that uh what
Ubuntu is trying to do is not try and steal Linux users from other distros but get people that
have never used Linux before to give it a try Ubuntu um but i don't really need to steal a lot of
users from other distros they've got most of the users haven't they all and so that was an article
on the thing that was in us today but i wouldn't be going there but mom's article like is mint
most popular distro now but you know it's not that they need to take users off of the distros it
happens to the users already don't they yeah i think that that's still the largest number of users
is still on Ubuntu and that could be debatably what i'll call it some articles some people
they're going to say some will say it's that mint is more popular wouldn't they but it's
Ubuntu really i think it was just i i gave mint a try it just there wasn't anything about it
that particularly grabbed me no why's that or why isn't it what were you looking for that that
didn't show up um basically uh i come from a starting point that there was a time in my life when
i used to enjoy working on my computer and i'm done with that and now i want to work with my
computer uh so i just want to you know boot up and start working on something and not have to
think about it and for me uh unity is starting to be an easier way for me to just get to work and
not have to worry about what's going on in the background well that kind of brings an interesting
thought into my mind all that time when you like working on your computer were you working on your
computer or were you working on you and i bet the latter is the case dan double in dan yeah i don't
know uh you know there's there's probably an element of that it's a great way to learn about
stuff uh and it's not that i'm opposed to learning about stuff but you know at this point in my life
uh you know i got so much stuff to do for instance uh you know all of the stuff on
Libra Office that i've been working on and you know i don't want to if i have a couple of hours i
don't want to spend it you know reconfiguring my computer if i could spend that same time writing
another episode for the Libra Office series the buffus series what's that uh it's a series i'm
doing on hacker public radio oddly enough that uh i'm just getting to the end now with my first pass
through Libra Office writer and getting ready to start on calc all right yeah it sounds
not sounds uh okay interesting i think it's our biggest series isn't it the hookah i mean how many
episodes are you into it now um i think i'm up in the you know twenty twenty one somewhere around
there i've got a couple more written that i haven't recorded yet um so wait a second you write down
what you're going to say before you record uh yeah rich that's exactly what i do keep
a sound professional or something it keeps his foot right out of his mouth too you'd be amazed
well i i just tell you it it would be very difficult to do what i'm doing if i didn't write it down
first because it's kind of technical and i would just get the all tongue tied if i was making it
up as i went along oh so you're saying you're not a good b-asser i'm not in your league
so yeah what i do is uh i write everything down and it's all on my blog and then when i have it all
written down i then do the recording um and it's almost just reading from what i've written down
at that point one of the things that i heard and i kind of if i had to give a speech what i
typically would do is kind of put bullet points or a couple of words down for each bullet point
and uh then just touch on the topics and apparently uh Ronald Reagan would write his speeches on um
cards and he would shuffle the deck before he got out there so he didn't know which card was
going to be next and his concept was he thought that kept people entertained and interested in
what he was saying because he didn't know what was going to be next so he thought it was better for
audience interest oh it's public speaking all about yeah um i've been doing more of that this year
here and there and uh yeah it's been good well if that's what he did he was very successful at it
i had a chance to hear him speak uh early in 1980 so it was still uh still going for the nomination
and you know he's a very good speaker no doubt about it
Mitch had stelman's a good speaker stelman's a good speaker i saw him earlier this year i mean
obviously he's done this for a lot of years but even so that was impressive just two hours non-stop
basically except the water breaks yeah it's a it's a different thing um you know i don't
consider myself the world's best public speaker although i've done a certain amount of it
i'll tell you who's good man if you ever get a chance to see klatu do a demonstration or do a talk
he's fantastic the way he flies through his computer without slides
well yeah except what i've noticed with him is he's looking at his computer the whole time he's
not making any contact with the audience oh i didn't know he didn't do that on the the presentation
that i saw him do okay maybe it's just a few that i saw he does it on purpose because he doesn't like
people well he looked at me the whole time Dan explain that yeah you're not a person oh yeah
so dan you still at work i am that's why i didn't quiet
there's nobody here
Dan why you just sell out because i'm not on linux
what was that i missed that i'm not on linux that's why you're talking quiet
yes
it's the it's the shame
where you listen to the site what's wrong with what say
the tilt site i'm trying to download some shows but it's not i'm not getting to it
looks like links to something up
that is a hard time we we had the uh i had a lost episode Dan had a lost episode now it's
the lost site that was working earlier today i was on it so i think i would say that probably
link well link has the account on that site so the blue host was hosting it i suspected there
are you in the irc
no i'm gonna give it another shot hold on it could just be like healthcare.gov there there might be
five million people on the site right now and it's crashing and it was only built for the 13
that he expected to see there yeah there's half a billion people trying to download a two-month-old
tilt show and and maybe what it waited is that the basal sands episode you're trying to get
i think it was the fly in rich episode people love that guy
i don't you know it's interesting that both tlts.org and tlls.
archive are both not responding so i wonder if there's something else going on okay
they're both vm's on the same server now they're on actually comes one's on host gator one's
on blue host which are just vm's on the same physical server do you think there's a dns issue
i'm back
to a good question i don't i don't think it's a dns issue let me check
hey hey Jonathan do you want? hey don't sir
so Dan i i thought you used Linux at work not anymore
i've been using arch do you know what that tells me pokey you're not listening to tilt
i haven't listened to a whole lot of podcasts in a long time so i'm way behind
i'm like see now there's going to be three of us mad at you wait a minute i never listened to tilt
you know that i only ever listened live if i could be there to give you shit in the chat room
i never listened to the podcast no they gave me a MacBook Pro work last week prior to that i was
using a delatitude with arch on it how much ram and how much hard drive you get on that
the ram was 16
i have a 250 gig ssd drive okay yeah you got the same set of bid you probably have a better processor
because it's a year later yeah they seem to like given out iPads and stuff in like that in general
in the uh uk and i guess elsewhere as well just like given out iPads and max and that
now aren't they remember an episode of dev random where people had to take just stop just stop
thinking it myself what did i say i didn't say anything you're gonna ruin the the secret joke
sorry i crossed the streams didn't i that's funny i watched out the other night
i'll be back again somebody has discovered that i have lunch and she's meowing endlessly outside the door
you like your wife out again rich
no grip testic has those mowing fits sometimes it's just part of being bro i guess
hey jonna then if you get your mic working yet i'm gonna reuse this joke uh jonna then
keep sending me selfies and i really wish it would stop why would you want that to stop
you missed oh i guess it did well if we're gonna reuse jokes rich if you ever get him in your
airplane i want a picture of him in the cockpit with the the linux license plate upside down
oh just give it away why don't you well actually if we fly upside down and he'll hold
it that way it'd be correct there's true there is that don't uh don't fly upside down with
jonna then please you've you've had canopy problems before then uh sessan isn't rated for
negative j's i told you man bring your plane up here and we'll put it back together
you got chewing gum and bailing wire i got blue tack it's much better
now we drove jonna thrown away yeah but we got fxb in the exchange so we're we've almost broke even
okay we almost got fxb i see jonna thing connected yeah he's in the lounge probably have an audio
issues jonna then you're with us yeah it'll be more interesting we'll get some more people here i guess
let's dig on you dan now we're not hearing you fxb i thought i heard wind that time i don't know
he might be sitting on his microphone then but i don't bump it's what i'm here for
i have a question that may be somebody can answer i got a question for you dan
well it's not going to work because you're not going to be able to answer this question
let's take a more like sound chaser is he on
i think he just stepped away to get lunch at home
brome or k-wisher midway any guy any of you might might be able to answer this even you rich
hit me so but if you wanted to say what you were going to say rich go ahead
so dan uh do you put it on your resume that you host a podcast on Linux technology
why do you ask that i'm just curious because one of my buddies says hey you know
definitely put on your resume and then i'm like oh gosh you know dan always kind of goes to the
bottom fast on the podcast and i don't know if i want a potential employer to listen to tilts
well i have a bunch of i have a couple other shows that aren't tilts related that i do so
yeah i do oh okay right yeah it was gonna say the easy answer say yes he's on the Linux podcast
in its uh Linux cranks how i come through now you are yes how's my level very good thank you
kindly evening all hey well you're up with levels get enough but you're you're i don't know
what you're getting for input i can hit you guys fine hello yeah hello hey welcome back
all right so here's my question i was on uh uh hanging out with man fry yesterday
and we're through somebody's stuff because he was interested in uh keeping an eye on his open
file handles and descriptors and the thing that that we kind of hit a wall on and trying to get
get around is what exactly is the difference between a file descriptor and a file handle
damn pure silence here here's the reason here's the reason let me elaborate a little more um
when you look at the max open files that is for from what i can gather of all the research i've done
for open file descriptors so 1024 is the default you can increase that but that would be for open
file descriptors now to see what pro how many uh what would process these what open file descriptors
a process has as you go into the proctor directory under the process id under fd and you can see
all the open file descriptors so we were looking at that and what we wanted to kind of get clarification
on in regards to open file descriptors is how does that relate to the output of lsof because for
instance we were looking at a firefox process yesterday and under the open file descriptors
it had a list ballpark at 75 file descriptors open but if you do an lsof process idea of firefox
you get back 253 open files that file firefox has so therefore that tells me that
there's something else going on when you look at lsof then just file descriptors now i was reading
that there's also shared files and everything yes hey before sorry before you go any further we've
got to say happy new years to pakistan uh tesh kent islamabad lahore or lahora kerachi and a few more
that aren't listed so happy new years everybody poke you got it wrong it's pakistan i know because the
president says that way thank you flandridge nice happy new year happy new year happy new year so
what is the relationship between file handles file descriptors and open files file handles and
file descriptors yeah and i did read that they're essentially kind of almost the same thing but one's
a higher level view and one's a low level view yeah that's as far as i've been able to find her right
now just poking around at it it looks like i've well here's what i can there's one guy i found in
the the Ubuntu forms that has a post and i'm not really sure i'll take this as um it's gospel but
i mean i i have seen on wikipedia that a file descriptor is nothing more than an
injured pointer i guess to an high note um yeah i don't really know enough about this to tell you
without like guessing wow well if we're guessing then i'm going to take a wild guess because i
thought at one point i heard it isn't the file handle that's what the a program interfaces with
so that in two programs cannot like attach to that file handle at the same time or is it something
else then no i think you are correct in that programs typically interface with file handlers
and then the descriptor is what is in virtual memory that maps back to what's in physical memory
yeah well you would see that's what's kind of unclear because you can also say that applications
or a process would access the physical address wouldn't access to physical address it access
virtual address through the file descriptor and then it's handled by the CPU or the OS depending on
whether it throws a page fault okay i hear i'll quote this post then because i now kind of
understand a better file descriptors are something the OS generates to you and it points to the
IO buffer so that you know you can write the file it's very low level whereas a file handle is more
like this is just a stream and you read from it and you write from it um and it doesn't really
there's there's the hand the application code is going to care more about a file handled in a file
descriptor um i haven't figured out if they're one-to-one or not um the descriptor functions are
faster than the handle functions but i think that the problems you have to worry about a few more
abstraction things that were distracted away from you when you're using a handle um as i said
i don't know if they're one-to-one i don't know if you can use them interchangeably it doesn't seem
like it but i think if you caring about the difference might not matter you probably just care
about the number of open file descriptors so then my next question is where are file handlers
where's that information stored i mean could you actually is it similar to wake how file descriptors
are you can find them in the proc directory i i would assume that a file handle might hold on to
zero or one file descriptors because a file handle is really it just seems like it's more of like
an extraction of a memory stream so it may not ever actually touch a file you just open the stream
you close a stream what are that points at a file or a bunch of memory in somewhere i don't think
actually matters um most of my development experiences windows and c sharp and there's no this
difference isn't really covered so i'm reading the technical stuff and trying to understand
as fast as i can and i'm not doing a great job i think you're doing a fine job
done i must say we enjoyed your episode of the last week
ah here's what's going on if you are using a file pointer or a file handle it knows more things like
eof it does the buffering for you you basically just say open a file handle to whatever
and dump a bunch of crap into it and read a bunch of crap to it and you don't have to worry about
anything else and there's like things like multiple things can access the same file handle at
least from what i'm seeing and see it looks like there's a locking pointer or a lock that you can
use um and it you know about there's like some other things to go along with it but if you're
using a file descriptor you have to handle all that crap yourself so the file descriptor is
faster but it's a little more dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and a file pointer
seems to contain a file descriptor i am learned i'm still just researching here with duck duck
go so i guess then the next question would be i hit that that's that's so a file handler exists
only in memory and isn't managed well you were saying that exists only in memory and isn't managed
like a file descriptor would be no um a file handle can point to a file descriptor but it's
basically just an abstraction of you know to the to the application it could just be back to my memory
it could never actually end up touching the file system it's impossible now normally i guess
if you're going to open a file with a file handler you know like some temp file on disk somewhere
and it is actually a disk not a you know temp pass or whatever then yeah you're going to have a
file pointer or not a file pointer sorry let me let me get the script your the file handler is
going to contain a file descriptor so if you're caring about how many files this thing have open
you may just want to look at descriptors because a handler is going to open a descriptor it's going
to wrap it and do some other stuff to it does that make any sense no it makes it makes sense to me
what i was just curious is how could you see what file handlers are open on a system does that
make sense no it makes sense to me good answer no i said yes it makes sense to me didn't i say yes
it makes sense to me you said no but that's okay you said no uh-huh so i think that i think the
thing to worry about is look at file descriptors don't worry so much about file handles because
file handles are just going to wrap a descriptor in those cases right now see i got that and you
write but i'm on to the next thing i'm wondering about the relationship between well how could
you actually see file handles that an application has opened is that possible i do not know but i'm
sure there's a type of profiling utility well i mean you could if nothing else you could hack a
libc to send any file it opens a file just me now dance fine for me okay so when when we were looking at
the number of file descriptors in the product directory and comparing that with the output of
lsof for a process why what is what is the relationship there because my understanding of what i've
read that if a process starts up and it accesses a file that you would see a file descriptor for
whatever it's accessing but if i run lsof on that process there's a bunch of files that are open
that aren't in the file descriptor list so that's what kind of confused us and confused me
oh oh oh right well this comes back to remember that well what is proc for example proc is a file
system it doesn't actually exist anywhere they're not files they're just special memory structures
that are treated as files because it allows for backward compatibility i'm wondering if they're
opening a handle a file handle to those things and the kernel is going well this isn't actually a
file on disk it's not a pointer to an i-node somewhere so there's an actually no file and therefore
there's no file descriptor generated because the kernel is producing this information through another
structure that's my guess i don't think it's right but it's the best i can come up with with
the knowledge i have well i see i don't think you're wrong because that's what i was kind of thinking
on the same thing when you're looking at lsof you're looking at a list of file descriptors
file handles also and in addition all the other pipes character devices because it tells you
right in the output of lsof would type of or character it is character device or file or stream
or whatever but i was kind of curious because some of those that are deporters like a regular file
i can clearly see what the file is that had been it has opened but there's no corresponding
file descriptor under the proc directory so i guess that would be a way to look at the handlers
this is too deep in the linux internals for me unfortunately best i got your answer sounds quite
plausible because when when talking you know and another thing that would man man fry
damn fry i shouldn't call man fry all the time i don't know where he got that from you should
oh yeah okay man fry we were talking about this and the relationship between pam and in it
processes in it system d daemon tools and all those and he was kind of
questioning with regards to the fact that when you go look on the web on how to handle the open
file limitation 90% of what you're going to find tells you to go in and edit the limits.com file
which is under the pam.d a purview for pluggable authentication modules has no bearing it seems
to be whatsoever on process he started from a service like in it and he was wondering is that a
bug and what i kind of felt originally is no that's not a bug because that's that's and we
speculated just why it's not a bug but thinking about moron on what he was saying is it being a bug
kind of thinking maybe it is a bug but not like where we would think of a bug in an application
but a bug in documentation because it seems to me and correct me if i'm wrong on any of this
anybody has a better understanding that when you're dealing with something like in it d which
in it has been around for a long time pam that d had come significantly after in it that d so
starting a process in that manner through system through in it that d or daemon tools
somewhere along the line that translation of what is handled by pam.d and relationship to
startup services like in it got lost and there's a bug in the documentation how does that sound
you know well i'm making the assumption that you all know what i'm talking about and that's
probably unfair that is extraordinarily unfair yeah it is uh however it sounds plausible that i
don't know enough about it to give you a verdict i actually have to run and free my kitten from
the prison i put her in i'll be right back yeah which is excuse i was going to use
okay see uh tomcat has a tendency to spawn a lot of processes run out of open file descriptors
and cause a problem where you actually need in some cases to increase the max open file limit
on a system from the default 1024 to something higher now how do you actually do that well if you
do research a lot of places indicate that well if you go into system control it's etsy cist
control.conf you can up the maximum open files for the entire system but you can also handle it
on a per user basis through the etsy security limits.conf file that that path may be different on
newer distributions but when you up and on security.conf any user that logs in when you change the
hard and soft values for a number of files that can be open when they log in that value is set
for them automatically that with the default is 1024 but you can increase it based upon how much
memory you have in your system and doing it wisely to a higher number. Now when you start a
process like tomcat a patch or anything else that that is started by system d dot d any script
like that Damon tools it bypasses pam dot d the security limits because it's not pulling in
it's not an authentication scheme it's not logging into the system to run this so therefore
bypasses all the pam dot d's limitations I have not heard it directly put like that anywhere
but that appears to be what the problem is because it automatically goes back to the defaults
on the system which is 1024 is the maximum open file limit no matter what you do in pam dot d
and limits dot conf it's not going to affect tomcat patch or any of those other services running
you have to actually in their start up script use u limit so you set u limit dash
capital h and and capital s and for hard and soft number of file limits and man for I had said
that seems like a bug to him because why is it ignoring the value set limits dot conf and I
said I don't think that's a bug but now I'm saying it almost seems like it's a bug and documentation
along the way because I do believe that those services in it dot d and those types of in it and all
those services predated and not system d and but Damon tools sysv in it and it scripts predated
pam because I think pam is not as new as those services and pam is for pluggable so it sounds
they're not going through the standard authentication mechanisms to start up a service they're not
doing a login shell or anything like that so therefore it's going to bypass and ignore pam dot d so
therefore along the way in the past where you would handle all that using u limit some of that
seem to have been lost in translation when pam d came along it's been not has been apparent
that okay pam d limits dot conf is not going to matter for anything that you start as a
Damon in those services in that in that manner so no assistant document or anywhere really
that's what I'm saying and that's why you know it's is for me to just come out here and say
this is the way it works absolutely I don't know 100% but based upon testing and research it
appears that that's the way it is but nobody has specifically come out and said that's the way
it is I can't imagine that they're you know something like the Lisa conference that this has
something to cover that that well I wish we would have heard this whole conversation because I
I know I've got some stuff to deal with that conf at one point sound chaser yeah listen to
the last episode it tells I've reviewed the whole thing again mid my head hurt yeah the whole thing
and I was that's why I was kind of hoping that you might be around that I would ask you some
of these things because I know that you deal a lot with this stuff and that goes back to the whole
thing of file descriptors file hand little what are we looking at with LSOF and compared to
comparing and trusting all that stuff is to getting a full picture of the information here
hi everybody happy new year I just want to say a den I'm not sure which distribution
you're doing this with but one thing you can do on red hat derivatives is to put
the u-limit directives into ecsis config hpd or whatever and then that'll be picked up by the
init script so you don't actually have to edit the init script and break the the rpm md5 sound
or whatever you might be you might care about hey that that that is some really good information
now hold on a second here because I want to get
to do to do to do to this one don't have to be with you oh sorry I muted myself
was that you have information in there yeah and what is the filet you said etsy what
well at least with the patchy its etsy csys config httbd i mean that's just on like sentoess fedora
red hat and so on. On Debian, I mean, it would be whatever file gets read in for defaults like
environment variables. So if you have a distribution whose init scripts read in some kind of
you know, local configuration file for startup, then you can just put the ULIMIT
directives directly into that and you don't have to like edit the init script directly.
Damn, you know what? That's I was not aware of that even though we use we sent us at work,
but we can custom compile everything and use daemon tools to execute it.
So I never really thought about that. So that's under the Etsy sysconfig directory.
Is that just is it is it just you go in Etsy sysconfig create a file like HDTPD and put those
variables in there? Usually there's a file there by default on a lot of you know when you install
an RPM it'll it'll put a file there for its service daemon and it'll have either everything
will be comment out or there'll be you know maybe an environment variable line, but something
else that you can actually add in there is is just some commands that you want to run when the
init script starts. And I ran to the same thing that you did where you know this this problem
isn't documented very well. And I think it just comes down to open source development teams over
the years don't necessarily talk to each other. They don't necessarily see what the end users are
doing and where the doc there's a lapse in documentation. There's a lapse in knowledge. And
and you know you go into these support forums and you say hey why isn't this worker it's like oh
why didn't you read this document and it's kind of like that moment in hitchhikers guy the galaxy
where they say you know oh it's been on file in the in the basement of the the administration office
you should have known that we're going to destroy the earth. That's the kind of fault I do have
in the whole Linux community is sometimes the communication is kind of fubard at certain points.
I don't know what you're talking about that can't pop that doesn't sound like the Linux community.
Thank you Delthray. No I do see you then looking at a bunch of um actually that's what
I cover the videos here to help folks like you all to tune in to Dan's excellent series on
Linux in the shell but you know that will be soon augmented by a whole rundown of this problem.
Well maybe perhaps but I did want to say Delthray thank you because I do see any Etsy sys
config or any in it.d directory for a bunch of the files if you do grep for sys config it looks
to see whether like sshd looks to see whether Etsy sys config sshd is there and if it doesn't
reads it in it sources it that that's great I appreciate it and I do plan on bringing Linux
in the shell back a lot more in 2014. Actually I was with way tech content in return to TLLTS
I was kind of consuming yes we'll go over there. Not that I care one way or the other actually.
I don't want to I don't want to double dip. It's tough you know yeah you know I said just
a critique a little you you don't mention those other things that you do those other activities
that you're doing and I I really think you should on TLTS. That's because we don't promote anything
we don't even promote ourselves rich. We accept our hands are great. We just
and we've promoted Linux Luddites and HDR and what is the guy who always has his hand out
where is he by the way right here. Hey buddy happy new you japhon. How's everyone doing?
Sorry I had been having a I don't know for some reason and my one desktop computer that I'm
used to often the microphone's working under the audio and everything I just it isn't working
when I try to talk to you guys I have to switch over to my laptop. Jonathan I got to say you're
looking good bud. Thanks man I I dressed up just for you Pagwald. It took seat as if it was just
it makes us all look bad. So Jonathan I don't know if you heard the suggestion but we're going to go
flying and you're going to hold the Linux Linux license plate and it's going to read correct.
Nice I'll do it I'll hold it while I'm flying. Yeah that's what he was doing but the plane is going
to be inverted. There you go. So Jonathan please hijacked this show and tell us about the orchid
campaign. Okay so for some of you may or may not know me I'm Jonathan NATO and I'm a blind
new Linux user and the executive director of the accessible computing foundation that can be found
at VaACF.co. I have currently running an ED Google campaign to raise money to get developers to
hire developers fix bugs not only within Orca the screen reader but other programs that affect Orca
not being accessible with Orca so things like evolution or audacity or abbey word or you know
various other programs. I met a angel investor slash VC kind of person in Boston a few months ago
and I was talking to him about the accessibility work that I'm working on and the foundation and all
of that and as I was talking to him I was just you know kind of rambling so I only had 10 or 15
minutes with him and I was like well I'm working on this and I'm doing this I'm you know doing
this you know Linux distro and all this other stuff and he's like whoa whoa whoa he's like slow slow
slow down he's like you're you know let's focus on one thing he's like if you want people to like
adopt the work you're doing he's like you need to make some you know you need to make Orca 10 times
better than everything else that's offered he's like that's how you're to get adoption and so he's
like let's launch an Indiegogo campaign he's like I'll pledge the campaign and you know I'll tweet
about it and promote it on my end and he's like let's raise this money and you know make this
excuse me or 10 times better he's like once you make Orca 10 times better then you can start
focusing on you know some of the other assistive technology stuff that you want to do and so on
and so forth but he's like let's focus on Orca so so I've launched the campaign it could be found
at igg.me slash at slash orca and so I'm trying to raise $100,000 to like I said we could
potentially hire you know to two developers kind of part time or two full-time developers
depending on where they live and I really want to be able to bring Orca to that next level
and and like you said make it 10 times better than any other you know screening software that's
available whether it be proprietary or freeze-offware so I've got a few questions I put it posted on my
blog about this and the developers of Orca we're on to it which is good news because we're going
to be doing some additional interviews with those guys but you know Orca's kind of written in Python
correct yes yes but so a few of the Python guys have been looking at it on the mailing list but
be aware that you know a Bogan Orca is kind of like a Bogan in X or I don't know give me an example here
a Bogan in in a display driver if if the applications themselves are not written to support Orca
you know it comes up as a Bogan Orca when the natural fact it's that the the hooks haven't been
provided in the other applications so correct yes you know we're not we're not just in Orca here at all
exactly yeah exactly it's you know it's not a 100 percent Orca's fault wide
application isn't accessible it you know nine times out of 10 it's probably really the other
applications fault but you know but there is the you know minuscule times when maybe Orca is
the problem like here's kind of an example where Orca has a ton of gecko hacks within Orca
because there's a ton of gecko bugs and Firefox that are not fixed which really kind of hinders
the performance of Orca with Firefox but since Mozilla has it gotten around yet to fixing these
gecko bugs Orca has done a lot of hacks to work around the bugs so Orca works with Firefox if
it was it for the hacks in Orca Firefox wouldn't be accessible with Orca so there's you know there's
kind of things like that you know that I'd like to iron out and flush out and not have to have
hacks within Orca so a web browser works and you know it's kind of various other applications with
you know sort of like issues like that so that's what I really want to do is streamline Orca
with Libre office and other type of applications yeah let's just take one second here because we're
in about a minute we're going to be counting down to the next time zone so I just want to do
quickly finish off by saying that so even if Python is your thing then whatever project you
happen to be working on you know the chances are that you can still make a valid contribution
through code or cooperation or cash to this project so you can you know I don't know contact
Firefox do some of their bug triage and try to ask questions at conferences and stuff okay why
doesn't this bug's been open for two and a half years by hasn't been dealt with you know is there
something we can do how can we help it and you know just put faces on yeah well not that many
line people use it well know but you know my daughter uses it for the text to speech so come on
guys get a working well yeah really quick if you interject to that yet maybe there's a reason why
a lot of blind people don't use it it's because they can't because there's a bug if it were fixed
there'd be more people using it correct correct correct okay let's welcome the next series of
time zones mostly Afghanistan anybody want to take up the happy New Year Afghanistan
anyone want to read out the cities you get Cobb Cobble, Kandahar, Missouri, Sharif,
and Harat very well done very well done next is Moscow in half an hour aha so Jonathan carry on yes spread
the good love spread the word yes and you know that there are actually a many vision impaired people
throughout the world that a lot of people don't realize there's you know roughly like 360
million vision impaired people so that ranges anywhere from you know completely blind like myself
to you know people that have really low vision maybe only partial vision and one eye you know all
the way to you know kind of like legally blind but if they put on glasses they can see so
it's a really rough number but you know that number is just going to continue to grow as you know more
people get old and start you know losing their vision and 90% of these people live in developing
countries so they can't afford proprietary screen reading software to access the computer so
I'm assuming the large majority of those 90% of people aren't even using a computer just because
they don't have the software to access it do you does our chemical windows are not it does not
it only it only works on GNU Linux yeah that all because you probably get
ported to windows and maths later on if there's you know possible because I've been asked for
this interestingness into this I met I met somebody last year who was you know completely blind
and he came along to our Linux user group to get help with his computer all to hopefully get help
with his computer I should say and no one could really help him because he had this sort of issue
where all crowwoods conflict with his music creations software I'm not really sure what happened
with him but yeah the Mac as well and but what I thought was interesting as he said I remember him
saying basically saying oh no let me use Linux for my music course and then actually I actually
find it more accessible than the Mac because there's this idea that seems to be this idea that
that Macs are the most accessible device for blind people but I don't think this guy wasn't the case
and then there was a comment of the name now as a distro that was aimed at the
bridging head and I said like and he said that that wasn't the actual either rather you
stand at a bun to because of whoever and also met somebody the last month who was blind as well
he was using that so like you said I mean these people are out there but they
but they be any sort of all crowd and try and get some more funding I agree with that
I might donate something to like a fan actually or sort of thinking about it maybe
links on the it's your website yeah it's just there's just a lot of you know like I said
vision impaired people vision impaired people and the numbers are you know they're underestimated
when I start telling people about the numbers of you know vision impaired people or even
just people with disabilities in the world there's roughly a billion people in the world with some
type of disability and it's just mind-boggling that there's that many people out there and you know
this day and age you know we're creeped up on 2014 here computers and have been in people's
homes since like the late you know 1970s there's no reason why a blind person can't access
to computer this day and age it shouldn't cost any extra money it's not like we didn't know
blind people existed in the 1970s and we just figured out there's blind people in the world now
like there's no excuse for it and I want to use free software to do that because you know I'm
also free software advocate and I understand the importance of the software freedom with free
software and when it comes to assistive technology because if we can get more people with disabilities
or vision impaired people using free software then we are in control of the software that gives us
access to the computer why not restricted by some proprietary company and that only allows us to
get so far within our operating system only gives us access to certain software so that's why it's
important to use free software for assistive technology so where complete control of not only the
assistive technology that lets us access the operating system but also be in control of the
operating system underneath it too so the whole stack to be free software and you know the
the community could take a life on its own you know hopefully in the future once this you know
starts to get off the ground and you know then you have 500 million more people you know with
disabilities using computers and like I said just taking a life on its own oh Jonathan the
one of the things that was also mentioned by by the comments and I kind of tend to agree with myself
is the absolute crap sounding voices of these speakers don't get me wrong I use these speak every day
myself just I'm dyslexic so I have it read back to me but I send out an emails and stuff so I
put us up you know I'm working on a laptop for my daughters so that she can use she can use
a sonar with with for her dyslexia she's she's chronic dyslexia and she came out crying
because the voice of the Eastpeak voice in English is bad for Eastpeak voice and daughter she's
still scared so saying it's bad as being like it's it's really probably a true or she's like
you know the voice sounds like it's from you know the 1980s myself I myself I don't get hung up
on that for a couple of reasons it's like for me it's like well I can either you know use this
you know I can either not like this voice and not use the computer or I can just get used to it
and put up with it and use the computer so I deal with it but with the last in the gogo campaign
we did we did enable a way to get better voices now it is implemented in the newer the newest
sonar there's not really like an official package that we're working on that sonar is going
to be moving over to Manjaro as it's based soon and we're going to have the package built into
that because it's just easier you know getting a package in a you are but we will look into proper
getting like a one through packages debing packages the way we did that is we replaced a
a package called speech dispatcher and we developed a new one called speech hub and
basically speech hub works with open married tts which is way better sounding voices than
than e-speak and creating new voices within open married tts is a pretty user friendly
and we'll also once we get this more off the ground we'll be encouraging you know more and
more people to record their own voice and to develop more you know languages like Russian
and Dutch and things so they think open married maybe only has 10 or 15 languages right now
which you know isn't enough but it's kind of all the sort of majorish language that languages
that you would see so there is better voices now Ken what I was when I was doing research on that
I think I contacted you about the open married thing yes from what I saw was and get this guys this
is really really cool right if you if you take a a public document like I don't know
out of work you know classic book for example like I don't know count amount crystal that's out
of copyright and that's translated into your language you can have somebody read that book
and use that as the source for feeding the married tts database so the source text script is you
know yeah and if you do this creative commons right you run this app on your on your desktop and
it tells you you you signal to it they rate at which you're reading you read sort of karaoke style
on the screen and then that's send off to the married tts applications and convert it into
voice files that can be used free anywhere and because a big a lot of the problem they have with the
married tts voices are that the voices are there but the databases and songs are have copyright on
them so but the killer part of this is the audio that you record as part of that can be uploaded
to leave the box as an audio book for the blind how cool is that yeah that's pretty awesome
plus it means that for example my daughter my wife is very has a has a talent really for
reading stories and stuff so she will be getting you know a resume when we do this and it's on the
list so we usually do she will be getting a voice hard computer will be sounding like her mother does
which probably when she's 16 isn't a good thing but right now right now and she's a young child
that's you know how how comfortable being is that you know what I mean yeah definitely that's
pretty awesome the yeah like I'm saying sonar does have speech up on it with the like four or five
married tts voices already on it the only thing is if you put off the live disc for some reason I
couldn't figure out why if I set speech up as the default server for some reason orca wouldn't
come up talking so I had to make speech dispatcher the default just for the live session and then once
you install it you can switch speech dispatcher over to speech hub and then utilize the open
married voices from there what was they if you don't mind me asking the question what was the
reason for not using speech dispatcher instead of rather than you know forking off something
sure that what the reason for that was I contacted the maintainer speech dispatcher probably at least
10 times asking like hey can you can we develop like a plug-in to so open married tts works with
speech dispatcher and I heard from him zero times out of the 10 emails and then we we're working
what we were talking with this other developer and he was sort of already like thinking of the idea
of coming up with speech hub and I said well if you get it to work at married tts let's let's do
this and he's like sure that shouldn't be a problem so he went ahead and did it and the cool
thing about speech hub is this might offer some really cool things in the future too for the the
ACF is speech hub has like a server functionality into it so let's just say for you know arguments say
that infrastructure was you know there's no worry about infrastructure you can have this one
you know mega kind of computer mega set up running speech hub as the server and what you could do
is I could then go to companies that were concerned about making their hardware talk like a few
months ago like Sony and another company we're we're trying to get the FCC to let to like loosen
the regulations for their ebook readers because they're complaining like oh man we don't want to
have to make these things accessible if we do then the battery is going to not last as long
and it won't be a good experience for the people that can see and so they're complaining you know
having to make their ebook readers accessible and so if we had the speech hub server what we could
do is contact Sony black rook all we need to do is make a little tiny application that would call
back to our server because our speech hub server would provide the actual speech synthesis so if
we could put one little program on a piece of hardware to contact the server send the text to
the server and the server could then read it back now all this they'd have to be internet connection
for it all be possible but if there is an internet connection we could then make many hardware
devices accessible and really take the pressure off the hardware companies to get their devices to
talk yeah i i wonder about that because you know look at the their attitude towards the
hot sets of Kindle book reader where the disabled's this text is speech by default
you know they don't want to dear hammer it's just a pathetic excuse not to do that because you
gonna be able to charge more for accessible books yeah i don't really particularly think that's
the greatest idea in the world i see where Jonathan's coming with it but at the same time it's like
oh look it's another thing that calls home you know yes on the surface it's a good idea but
it's fraught with some issues and it doesn't mean it's not a good idea and it shouldn't be at least
investigated more but you know at the same time it is not a placebo it's it's really a stepping
stone and it's another thing that the another thing the manufacturers have to rely upon and they might
want to run their own which of course it being free software would be allowable uh Jonathan
i actually had some questions about the uh campaign you're running and donations through it i
we got an email from you earlier saying that donations through indiegogo would not be taxed
deductible unfortunately does that mean now if does that mean if i just donate directly to your
campaign through like the paypal link on your page that is taxed deductible and i just get a
receipt from you and we go from there yes well then how quickly did those show up in your inbox
probably seconds i'd imagine the only thing with giving you the tax deduction right now with
i have all my paperwork filed with the IRS they unfortunately you know take their time so
right everything's retroactive though up to a year so i'm just waiting for them to give me the
final okay we finally recognize you as the five one c three so i have everything done i'm just
waiting for the last okay you're all set so if you do make a donation it is retroactive so you
will get the credit for it okay yeah i there's been a lot of talk about the be on the lookout list
that we're going on and they were like oh yeah all this right wing crap and it's like yeah and if
you listen to Brad coon and some of the other guys that are doing a lot of free software non-profit
free software stuff has been on the the the below list for like three years now so this is not a
this is not a new problem for free software yeah many of you americans like me want to get more
angry at the IRS here's a good reason yeah unfortunately some people have kind of taken advantage
of it with software like non-profit stuff and you know set it up to do all kinds of you know
tax evasion stuff so that's why they're like crack trying to crack down it i'm thinking i shouldn't
have a problem just because you know when i went through all men the paperwork for this stuff is
like brutal but um you know i'm in the paperwork it's clearly stated like i'm developing you know
software for people with disabilities to access technology so it's it's a little bit more of a
clear cut case i hope than just like oh we want to develop you know free software and give
a way to people like there's a little bit more of a benefit to society well i don't say more of
a benefit society but i think the IRS will hopefully clear it through the first time around without
having to like refill anything out actually i had a random question if you don't mind Jonathan
sure um you have to forgive me because i haven't run sonar but was i right in thinking it comes
um with evia cam out of the box i'm sorry it comes with what um was i right in thinking sonar
comes with evia cam out of the box i'm not sure what that software is it's it's an open source
software it allows you to track head movement and move the cursor oh it does come with one but not
out i didn't i even wasn't even aware of that one okay i have ever relative um who has MS and
but has still has quite a lot of head movement and i tried them out on evia cam recently it worked
quite well for them i'll i'll put the uh the link for the source watch page in the chat if you
want uh don't put that that's useless for me is it just the letter e letter v and then cam
no it's evia evia cam dog sf um but it's on source watch so it's that dot sf dot net
okay yeah i'll check that out because i have one included called mouse trap which essentially
does the same thing but i love to check out both of them can you put can you put that link into
the etherpad page and i'll make sure it gets sent as a text file to general for that i shall try to
do that yeah that's good to know i thought mouse trap is the only one that did that so
well i only found out about evia cam because it uses um uh the open cv libraries that used to do a
lot of sort of clever image processing stuff but it works pretty well and the uh it's designed
so that once it's running the the the person using it needs as little assistance as possible they
can tweak it to their own needs oh that's cool because the one thing i don't like about um mouse trap
is what sounds like you still need a little bit of intervention with someone that might have a
little more uh use of their limbs whatever to kind of get it set up but with mouse trap the thing
i don't like is you have to like you know open up the terminal run mouse trap and like set up the
stuff through that so like if someone that didn't have a lot of help they wouldn't really be able to
get up running that's the only thing i didn't like about it that i was eventually going to get to
at some point and try to you know make more of a way to where you know someone could do it without
as little help as possible thanks for that interjection rich oh the shucky accidently
sorry why are you playing uh my daughter's practicing the flute uh
jones i'm talking capital letters is she releasing that creative commons because i don't
want to have to cut that out you heard that folks koki's editing this show wow there we go you poor man
hang on editing see how i did that see how i did that so i poke how you're going to edit the
show you're not going to take layers of stuff out are you or wait or you're taking the empty best out
i thought we can peg well to do it actually i just finished editing it right now you guys it happened
while you watched well what's the tool that uh daughter door geek uses it edits out the silence
automatically that's called audacity yeah audacity yeah audacity just had a had a one of its basic
filters was remove silence and the yeah the default thresholds are pretty good yeah it's it's a
tool in audacity it's called truncate silence if i can's that all you've taken out or you can
take out other stuff as well no that the truncate silence filter just takes out silence and i mean
i mean if someone's actually seriously editing the podcast are they even can take this no nobody's
editing no nobody's editing no one's editing no yeah that's what i've done if i can for a quick
second drag from the station back to to the reader and one thing that i'm a i'd like to do to have
is i know your organization is dedicated to promoting accessible computing is the stuff that you
developed you have this distro called sonar yes which is moved basis a few times but if i don't
want to use that or if i'm if i'm if the only distro that i can get installed on the particular
piece of hardware is another distro or if it's not compiled for raspberry pi for instance how can
i get the individual components so that i can roll my own once we have once we have the sonar
over to mandaro because mandaro has a awesome awesome build system and the lead developer of
mandaro has been working with us and he's done a lot of custom stuff so sonar can be extremely
accessible you know using mandaro once we have everything down with that really my end goal is to
lay out a roadmap or like a plan saying if you want to basically sonarize or whatever your own
distribution here's the packages that we've installed this is what we've you know the you know
whatever configurations we're using um you know you might run into this problem with that problem
and we're we're going to lay out a whole thing so if someone would want to just take whatever
gen to whatever distribution you're using but make it sonarized they will have exactly the
steps that we've taken um we've also have the build system that we're using for mandaro on
victorious so if you want to download the build system yourself and mess around with the build
system we're using and tweak sonar a little bit more to your liking then you're you're free to do
that also okay that is the correct answer actually oh good thank you when i was talking uh to my
wife has has been talking to certain people at school about the fact you know my daughter is
dyslexic whatever and a lot of the some of the parents actually have said oh are there screen readers
that i can use for uh at home and we've been able to redirect them to the orca project uh and the
running on Linux was in the problem at all because of the uh the husband works in IT and
by the next no problem okay cool we're already running it so uh there's a big comes up for for that
yeah it's awesome i mean even like a thing with this build system i mean you know eat like the
school district if they wanted to you know develop something for their the students with you know
disabilities in the school district they could totally utilize the build system and you roll out
their own you know operating system focus on accessibility follow students in the school i mean
i would i would love to see something like that happen excellent excellent excellent sorry for
bringing the conversation back there for a quick moment but i wanted to get that entire project
oh i also have exciting news obviously pertain to accessibility and exciting news for me anyway
some people were not care but i've been in a conversation with uh RMS for the past like few weeks
and i think as of today it's effective that uh he appointed me uh director of accessibility for
the canoe project whoa yeah whoa applause for maa okay awesome yeah very awesome that is soup you
yeah props to Jonathan yeah thanks i'm pretty excited additions thank you
yes now when she heard it oh no no no no no somebody what somebody please prepare
I can't, sedative, can't, sedative, I need more coffee, I need more coffee.
No, when you're singing that.
Didn't you do this last year on that song?
This punk has never had enough of the pre-sulfer song, folks.
Never.
He does it at every given opportunity.
I'll get the straight jacket.
I'll get the sodium pentathol.
I've got the song cute up if we want to listen to it.
Yeah, let's go.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Please don't give him ideas.
I want to hear it.
I'm not muting everybody else.
Actually, no, there may be some people who have not heard the freedom song yet.
So go for it.
Go for it.
Really?
Yes.
Only if it's the cool version.
You have to unmute the music thing.
Sweet sounds.
Bring it up touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch touch.
Touch touch touch touch touch touch touch.
Shabby software, you'll be free
I guess you'll be free
Shabby software, you'll be free
Shabby software, you'll be free
You're right, some people haven't heard that version, that seems to be one of them, although
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry
sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry
I went to the bathroom like three or four times I entered the the bathroom like three or four times I enter the room like three or four times I entering theaya F , for couple years I enter in the F, I enter I entered the F, for couple years I enter the F, for couple years I enter the F, for the summer and I entered in the backyard for the summer and I met in the years I entered in the yard a couple years ago , for the summer and I met again I met in the spacetime we learned a story and I went in the去 the mechanic we had a fears to go you we had a x quickly he came away like a
sucked warning him like three or four times I inter into the FSF
you know not an argument but a discussion quickly just by wording something the wrong way so
but he's a wicked nice guy like really the the modern shorthand to sum it up we could be to say
that he's on the spectrum we've got a New Year's Eve yeah just interrupt interrupt you to bring
this breaking news from Moscow Dubai Abu Dhabi and Muskat it's happy New Year time happy new year
I'm a new year and now and we need the recordings yeah stop and start your recordings
this isn't being recorded dammit I was trying to get in before there's a recording started to get
that wasn't I can't really I think it's actually like before mine got started so you're not in my
recording I don't know I don't know poopies on here I've one more accessibility thing that to beat
the whole accessibility of the death if you guys don't mind poopies around but I wanted I wanted to give
a bunch I wanted to give a bunch to two thumbs up I don't know if poopies are aware of it or not but
I can never say his last name Luke he a Kellovich he uh turn Lee at spy and ATK which are like kind
of the accessibility framework don't support uh gestures and he's actually uh the last I saw
I was taking a look at it I don't know if he's sturdy yet or not but he wants to be able to implement
gestures into the uh accessibility framework which would then mean uh the brinthew phone would be
accessible so I'm excited about that yeah we cool hey just want to argue about that if you if you
knew what um what work had been done on the phone in terms of accessibility because I don't know
because I've been looked at that area yeah I you know currently like I said it wouldn't be
accessible because the ATK and staff doesn't support gestures but I saw in the genome
excessively mailing list that Luke was poke it out and ask him like hey how can I start working
on gestures for this and uh I'm assuming it's because you know if we want to phone so I'm excited
about that hey John cool I I don't mean to be picky I know you have a hard time getting to your
audio settings uh but when you speak loudly it gets real buzzy so okay I'll turn down I'll turn
down oh yeah I didn't know if you could I didn't know if you just you know oh yeah okay
four week move on completely for Moscow didn't um I mean didn't they change time zone sort of
I don't know there'd be a year or two girls ring when it is free out of UK now it's four isn't it
so didn't they change time zones ring or slightly I think I think I read somewhere I'm not sure
quite there's a glorious crusader over there who is determined to harmonize reduce and bring
into line the number of weird time zones that they had and my only corpus that this campaign will
spread across the world where we will just have one time zone and that'll be it. There was a nice
say a computer file episode today with Tom Scott talking about the frustration of developing
applications that need to be time zone where that's worth a look. I'm like I decided that I'm
going to campaign for where the time zone uh the international date line should be on the moon
and other planets in the solar system. Excellent idea. It's much easier if everyone just uses
UTC that would be fine. Yes. Well we do an aviation. I don't care if that campaign succeeds or fails
I just want to get rid of daylight saving time. Yes I agree with that too. People at work get so
annoyed with me and I start going oh well why do you want to get rid of it and it serves no purpose.
I think it does actually because we've done it. I think it does serve a purpose kind of for this
anyway we've got 26 hour podcasts that's because of daylight saving times as well. No this is
all coordinated UTC so this is time zones is nothing to do with daylight saving times jumping forward
any time zone is a lot of the time zone what they choose to honor in that in that period is up to
then but what we're looking at. No this 26 hours is due to the fact that there are some islands the
other side of the international date line and the nearest neighbor the other side is four five six
hours away and the nearest. Yeah yeah they've got summertime I think as well the moment they're
old New Zealand I think anyway. daylight saving time daylight saving time serves one very very simple
and universal purpose to irritate international podcasters. You have we have a winner.
It also we also get people who just don't turn up for meetings or turn up for meetings in our
late or an hour early at work because we're all spread out all over the place. And that brings me
to my next. The reason why actually we should be doing community news but seeing as I'm
the reason why Linux is failed and the desktop poppy is. Poppy poppy the poppy one the UK one
hasn't how has it failed on the desktop because the majority of people in the world are running
windows slash mac as opposed to Ubuntu. Currently yes that might change if you don't have
you can change that. But getting rid of daylight saving time in a way. Well I haven't a calendar
fecking works. I know I've ran to develop this before in hbure. But that if you look at all the other
excuses we don't have enough games. Now it's James coming to us. We don't have enough this. We don't
have enough that the whole thing boils down to having proper calendars that work because the very
first day you go into your boss and say well I want to I want to run Linux. I don't care what
you run as long as you're able to do your job and the very first nanoseconds you arrive late for
meeting because your time hasn't synced up because you've missed the meeting that is the day that
you need to go back to whatever the call for desktop is. You know when Ken Fallon got involved with
hacker public radio is when it really really took off properly and I think he might be right if we
can get a calendar on Linux he might try it and if we get Ken on Linux that can really take off too.
Seriously no you think I'm joking right look at the look at the popularity of mobile phones
in this world. The prominent thing that drives businesses today is exchange. Any of us who
is working in any company anywhere knows that the whole company is driven on exchange and by exchange
I mean not the email we have that more or less sorted yeah okay it's difficult to get in the note
but scheduling meetings. Look at all the phones that have succeeded down to the ages. First one
to succeed was the palm pilot. Second one to succeed that was that was overtaken by Windows
form because it was able to interface with exchange that was murdered by the iPhone because it
has is able to seamlessly integrate with exchange ways. Android has allowed into organizations now
seamlessly integrates with exchange. What on Linux seamlessly integrates with exchange? Nothing
what are you talking about I use it all the time. Evolution less time I tried to use that it was a
crashing mess that made Lotus Notes look stable but it does have Outlook calendar support. Yes
and it doesn't work correct and in my company which is pretty darn large like over 10,000 employees
uses Lotus Notes in that exchange. Okay that's that's fine but what I'm talking about is vast
majority of small businesses in the world use exchange. So I use Thunderbird with exchange all
the time. Yes for calendar and email and I haven't had a problem in the two and a half years I've
been using it. How many people have you been working on different time zones? Have you been syncing
it up with your Android phone as well? Have you been using a regular client on the other side?
In the last six months with using Thunderbird on my on my desktop I've done apparently a reply
all to all the everybody on a particular meeting inviting them to the same meeting. I've had
multiple meeting loops where it would come up on my phone if it would come up on the desktop.
It would come up on my phone up on the desktop up on my phone up on the desktop. It's completely and
totally on a reliable one. I remember this is I remember we had this exchange talks in the last
few years. I think I probably said I might have said that then I don't remember quite but I
probably said something like okay for business yes you need to exchange but for home users it's
a different story it's a different ball game and there's different programs in general that
the home user are going to one and it was kind of related earlier talking about mobile phones,
going in popular and now the tablets as well I think that's partly because of you know windows
you know it slows down doesn't it people don't really know why and they get a better experience
on the Android phone or whatever it is. People are going to run whatever they want to run
a company doesn't care so long as you're able to do your job. Now might be a good time to
remind everybody of the acceptable calendaring foundation kickstarter. What should we do then?
Sorry let's get off this that's it's up to our picking on poppy guys can you change your
nicknames please. What like exchange them you want us to swap? I'm sorry but every time I see
poppy in here in in an IIC chat I just want to start singing the theme tune to pop I I just
I can't help myself. Ken if it helps you at all you can call me pegwall. Yeah how about
will it call you 330 instead? Hey I'm fighting words. Shall we do the community news with quick
or should we skip it over what do you want to do? Yeah go forward Ken don't don't wait until we're
halfway through one of our segments because it takes some time. All right fine because we're halfway
through your segment now. Are we? Yeah we're donating minutes to go. Okay community news welcome
to community news this is Hacker Public Radio thing that we do regularly to bring you up to speed
on what's going on in around the Hacker Public Radio community. I will paste a link to the show
notes one second. Special New Year's Eve edition. Actually let's do this after the next time
zone change so if you want to chat you can. So you can start it at the top of the recording? Yeah it
might be best. All right you know wait for another like three or four breaks right because we're
only 11 minutes into this recording. Yeah then we have got 30 oh we've got 70 minutes to go
from what I think. And when you need some time filled why aren't you getting
pegwoll on the didgeridoo? Because we have the free music song. That was promised can you do that?
Ken did you just wake up? No copies just hit me. It must have hit you pretty hard if you don't
remember he just played the free software song. Yes but they I thought it was going to play the
Richard Stone version. Oh I don't have that one. Cute up. I'd have to grab a copy of it.
As long as Dan doesn't try playing dobo or goat in your mom. What would you like to know?
It's a sad day realizing I know what that means. What? I missed stuff sorry.
You don't want to know what you missed. Peggy explained. Well I wouldn't say I missed it Bob.
Okay, community news link in the chat slash your notes. So do you want to do it now or not?
Because your call can't it might sound better if we did it at the top of a recording but
we'll probably miss it again. I'm going to duck out because I still owe Ken shows.
I still lost an underlist at all. Everybody owes Ken shows in the years to start of the game.
Yeah but I promised them to you face to face two years ago. Oh you're done dude. I know.
Yeah I'm only on my first year of promise you shows that I haven't done.
I still hold the record. I have them written down. I just haven't edited them yet.
Oh did I ever see was it David Whitman's mug? He had it at Linux Fest Northwest.
It is a picture of Ken Fallon and it has a little caption like you owe me a show.
Nice. Very cool. I won't get one of them. I saw that mug and I was like wow where did he get
a picture of Ken with such a dopey mug on his face and then I found out Ken put that picture
up on his g plus himself. It is my like goal for HPR in general to sign the banner and as many
different physical locations as possible. Oh yeah that would be epic. I've gotten it at Ohio.
I've gotten it in Washington state. I have it in South Carolina.
He had an inaugural one in Boston. That's true. I did get that one.
Actually it wasn't Boston either. That was um wherever it was. I forget it was in Worcester.
Worcester. Thank you. Yep. Was that over at NELP? Yes. Yes it was. Wow. I mean Jonathan too
in person. So did anybody talk about NELP maybe? What's this NELPy speaker? It sounds dirty.
Now it's the Northeast Linux Fastie. I think we're going on our fifth year this year.
What? Yeah. This is our fifth one. It'll be the fifth one. HPR is represented at too.
No. Yeah. Okay wait a minute. The first one was it's the fifth one. It's the fourth one
because we had three in Worcester. The last one in Boston and then this one's going to be in Boston.
We had I thought totally two in Worcester. Yeah now confused. Yeah two in Worcester,
one in Boston and this one's going to be our fourth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
There's events a little bit too far for some muscle at the moment anyway.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're up, you know. Yeah but we still like the banner over to you.
Yeah this year we're going to have it at we were trying to have an MIT but that was a
epic fail. Apparently if you're trying to schedule an event at MIT you need to know someone
like an alum or someone involved at MIT which we did and they you have to go through this whole
process and like submit you know your conference what you want to do what rooms you want to have
yet to submit it and then hopefully they give you the okay. We somehow were turned down like three
times so we kept trying different things and they they weren't having it so we're having it back
at Harvard but it's going to be in a different building Pokey so this this might be a better spot.
It's it was a gymnasium but Harvard like read read read read did the whole building it took
like four million dollars and basically it's like it's pretty much like built for a conference like
there's one giant room kind of like where the basketball portion of the gym was but they you know
carbonate everything there's a nice stage with a you know a big huge projector or a PA system
and everything there's a couple of side you know side rooms and stuff so we think it's going to be
a lot better than the last building we had it at so we're really looking forward to that it'll be
April 4th it's a one day event this time unofficially we might figure out you know doing some stuff
on Sunday but we're just gonna do a one day event this year last year we did Saturday and Sunday
and Sunday was okay but it was like really laid back and like there was you know those you know
some people that you know it it was it worth you know paying to like get Harvard for the second day
so if there are people still hanging around bossing on Sunday I'm sure we'll figure something out
if people want it we could go hang out somewhere you know find something to do so it'll be
April 4th I believe it's going to start at it's either 9 or 10 in the morning we haven't I
gotten those times yet but we might have the whole building that we're staying in until like 10
o'clock at night so we're gonna have a lot of stuff that we're able to do there so there's
gonna be a lot of opportunities to do some cool stuff um we're still trying to figure out
we might have just the after party in the same building because when we're filling up the paperwork
I was asking like oh are you guys gonna serve alcohol there and stuff because apparently I guess
people pay to have weddings in this building so we'll have the opportunity to maybe have an after
party in in the building and then you know if we want to venture out into Boston after 10 then
we can do that so that's kind of what's going on my dog's gonna be there um there's a quite a
few people up in the air still that we are very good possibilities of coming but I don't want to say
they definitely are until we know for sure uh Matthew Garrett will be there you know a former
red hat employee and EFI extraordinaire um so it's gonna be a good event I um I still have a pocket
full of business cards of people who wanted to help out when the planning was coming around uh
I know I let you know about that last year but I hadn't heard from you so I still have all of those
yeah we have not done any like a fish like probably within the next week we'll actually
gonna be doing real planning and getting together Bruce Harrison has been extremely extremely busy
because he's been tearing apart literally tearing apart his house and like reciting it reshangling
it and he was hoping to be done by Thanksgiving and he's maybe done by now I haven't heard from him
in like a week and a half so that's really kind of was something we didn't think was gonna happen
but he's so far into it he's just got he's got to get it done so yeah well like there's people
who are willing to fill in people wanted to start committees and stuff and really you know get
get the thing rolling last year people really excited to to help out uh let's let's talk about
and Poke will we'll get this thing really rolling then but good we have all of the kind of the
initial stuff is all set so now we really need to move forward yeah I just need to submit my talk
and I I vote that we have uh if it's possible if there's like a BYOB for the after party that
would be ideal in a nice quiet place to talk and play board games yeah well that's why I was thinking
to have at at the building because it would we you know it'd only be us there and then we know
you know loud music if we're in a bar or whatever so I think this really might be the best solution
because you know we could utilize the separate rooms that we have to do various things like one
room could be for board games that other room could be for a people one to do gaming or whatever
so we're gonna have a lot of opportunities I think with this building that we're gonna be using
so I'm looking forward to it yeah and there were a lot of people there's always been a lot of
people who seem to like the the loud music type of bar atmosphere but I'd say it was split maybe
50-50 for people who who you know like loud music and people who wanted a nice quiet place to talk
and play games and stuff yeah the only thing I don't like about loud places is I can hear everything
and that's the problem so by hearing everything I hear nothing so I'm almost useless when
where at places like that unless you're like right in front of me yelling like I can't really hold
conversations like that don't tell yourself short it's not just there
wow so yeah that's that piece length fast if you want to go to northeslinuxfest.org there'll
be more more up there there's not too much there right now but I'll probably be posting more
information the next day or two okay well I actually had the one question about did I you know
when you said the board games pokie there was there a bunch of knelth last year or something
I missed no the only time we ever played games is when we played um oh it was the game that that uh
oh what's that mean with the totem and the cards jungle speed yes I have my own copy blame
mirth that's right yeah jungle speed that's right this one yeah mirth brought that it has a very
other impolite name as well there's a bunch of games going on itself the year that I was down
there too yeah I brought them all yeah thank you brooms the uh the game uh bringer yeah I'm still
trying to find a good game for someone who has a very limited vision like yourself Jonathan we found
a little bad that we you couldn't participate I mean catchphrase you could help with and we've
come up with different ways of playing the game we're instead of like everyone's trying to guess
for points picture it yeah there you go great we've been trying to come up with alternate ways but
there's this there's just gonna I'm just gonna bring a card game it's all braille and I'll play
against you guys and you'll see how it feels there you go uh we could be careful is that my wife
might learn braille by the end of that yeah probably if I get out of the if I get to be able to
read braille there were two people go ahead and and pick an order I thought you guys are gonna play
shrewd's yeah they're good I would work too and I was going to say mat Lee is huge into like um
the the board mat Lee cards against humanity I would guess I have a set you know he does like
the the board games are like you know you roll like literally like 30 die and do all these
different moves the stuff and when it earned turned up the FSF we would always play during lunch
and he's like man it's gotta be way to you know it's like we should come up with like an Android app
or whatever that could like roll the die for you and it would tell you you know what you roll because
he's like they need to be able to play and so he's all trying to figure out ways for me to play board
games there are several dice rolling apps in the aftroy market yeah like it like I said the games
that he plays you're literally roll like 20 or 30 of them at a time and they'll have like these
you know symbols and stuff on them and so it's a little more intricate than just rolling like
two die or whatever I've been going on a mad spray of looking at open source games lately and I
found one that I wondered if Jonathan had want to try what's that one it's quite strange it's
on source for just what it's called be the wampus okay what is that like hunter wampus but backwards
sort of yeah but the weird part is it's like it's like a it's like a dungeon crawler but it's all
in audio like there's no graphics but I haven't played it for two reasons one I can't get it to
compile but that's probably that's probably me but also for some reason it's been configured to
use an Xbox controller okay I did I was for a little while I was playing some mud games like
altering on I got sucked up into that bad I had to get off of it I was playing it for like I would
just stay up all night and play and I was like oh man this isn't good I just this is why the
knelt planning isn't done exactly but I was thinking it'd be cool to it's funnily enough not
that that's a word but I've spoken with other blind users and like you know and then you get
the same excuses even from you know blind people like you know I try Linux but there's no audio
games on Linux I'm like man even for blind people they're not coming over to Linux because of the
games well now you know there is one well yeah I was thinking it'd be cool to I don't know
enough about it but I'm wondering if um pie games I would imagine would make it really easy to
make audio games but I haven't looked enough into it I thought that would be cool to find some
like Python developers or something just to see if they could throw it against some quick pie
games you know just using audio I figured that out yeah that would be cool but yeah if you want
to look at it be the one post.sf.net be the one best okay I love the screenshot yeah it's a
blank there's a video with the video doesn't play nice it's all audio yeah I have to check that out
yeah I got to take another crack at building it so it's just strictly just a source there's no
like package or anything not that I've been able to find okay are you accepting talks yet Jonathan
yeah I don't have a link up yet like I said we're waiting to hear from a few more people just to
see actually how many slots were to have open but I'll probably release the house soon and uh start
taking you know uh people's papers to see what they want to give talks on but I I'm feeling you
might might get accepted poke yet I know some of the people over at NELF so well I don't want to
get in just because we know each other if somebody's got a legitimately better talk
oh come on who'd have a better talk than you just about any well wait a second I got that
open source cold fusion talk I was gonna do oh yes if you take that over my talk and we're not
friends anymore I thought it was the free software object oriented cobalt talk
no wait I have two talks in mine actually my second one is how to play the free software song
on a didgeridoo nice as long as to give a demonstration I think you'll be in I have a question
for Jonathan sure um with using indie go-go if you do not meet your goal do you still get the donations
yeah I did a flexible funding so if I don't meet the goal I still get whatever I'm able to uh
you know to raise on pledges that's good Jonathan do you understand the function behind uh
indie go-go like negating the the whole um you know tax exempt status of a donation I don't
understand why going through there makes it taxable if you um they do have a thing for nonprofits
but like like I was saying my I don't have like the official you know nonprofit like number
because I took a look at setting it up but I didn't have the number I needed so I wasn't able to
you know because you know like I was saying earlier I'm not seen by the IRS as a nonprofit yet so
I don't have like that final paperwork saying here's your official you know nonprofit ID number
and that's why I needed to fill out the thing on indie go-go I didn't have that so because I
didn't have that I uh I you know that any donation any pledges that are made can't be tax exempt
but if the pledges are made to the ACF like I was telling brome everything's retroactive by a year
so if you were concerned about getting a tax deduction I would say just go to the acf.co
and you can pledge you know donate there you will get a tax deduction that way through indie go-go
you will not get one um and also if indie go-go if I did have it set up only people in the US would
get a tax uh a tax deduction uh not to my own horn but check your email drown it and I think it
did I did I did and uh thank you very much I'll get a gushing email later awesome you should
have gotten something from me earlier too yes I did sound chaser thank you very much also I was
going to throw that in in the conversation at some point so thank you both of you very much
and to anyone else that uh has pledged that's maybe on here will pledge in the future thank you thank
you thank you thank you it's greatly appreciated and I've said it before it's it's just encouraging
that uh you know to see people get behind uh this effort and you know none none of this really
would be possible probably more without you guys help you know pledging and donating than me
doing anything so I just greatly greatly appreciate it well we'll see what my donation is when we
find out if my talk it's accepted okay and juggle from if you raise more than a hundred thousands
you're gonna spend the rest to get me over to sell absolutely can that that there's your motivation
well whatever's the cause that goes to Ken Fallon well there goes the tax exempt status
and half the donations we were expecting yeah and thank you also very texting by most people
and who could thank you also I know you pledged also so thank you
yep you're welcome I don't know if it's be I don't know if it's going to be possible Ken but I'm
I'm hoping possibly uh there might be a very small chance I might be able to make it over to
foster them I don't know if they're going to be there uh yes yes we are Dave and Dave Morrison
I will be sharing you know Boudoir in Brussels okay cool oh it's a Boudoir let's say that
it isn't wrong essentially sick family safe a Boudoir yes it is in fact is called a bedroom
yes we will be sharing a room for a post-em now you're probably not going to go because he
he is publicly you know it's a very small my new chance but the the the chance is there
that would be cool is um is oh we need to do the countdown one second three minutes we need to do
our um three is in freedom people turning up to northeast lines fast
no to 40 slacks fast I'm never going to be it's dead to me if I'm not able to go
to a post-em I know John Sullivan's always I know that and Bradley Kuhn is usually there
cool that would be that would be nice to me first I think Karen Sandler is usually there too
with the executive director of canola no excellent yeah the two of them have a podcast called
the free is in freedom podcast and it's the production is done by Dan Lynch from Linux outlaws
and they presented a number of recordings from the last uh fuzz down that they had participated in
yeah that's 20 months but they haven't released a show in a while so I was wondering
what's going on I'm with you on that one again I would love to meet Bradley Kuhn I invited him to
go go carting with us one time but he declined you do okay four minutes four minutes to come
in and use yeah I got okay I got to meet Bradley at Libre plan a couple years ago he's
really nice guy aren't we actually over at this point wait okay then happy new year whoever it is
somebody want to do I got the list open let's see it is mostly Iran it is Tehran
rushed Estefan and Badar Abbas this so happy new year and Gloria Estefan happy new year
I'm joining us knowing sure the new year happy new year happy new year
if we're going to do remixes of the free software song can we not
yes you're okay you're tuned in to do we start the streams or not at this point uh I didn't
think so we're only 34 minutes into it don't do it don't you Roger Roger it okay the link to the
community news show notes which I painstakingly do every month and nobody seems to care are okay
I care okay I do I read nobody reads my show notes submit it I download them to my phone
and read them as I'm listening to the episode I'm waiting for the braille
I want to show the other day actually was a you know raspberry hardware hack uh based on an LCD
printer that instead of uh you know it or not LCD printer uh one of those type inkjet printers
that goes over and back on you wasn't an ink check printer it had needles in the uh in the
you know instead of dot matrix a dot matrix printer thank you my friend a dot matrix printer
and it had needles and he was saying you use it for silks screen printing but you could also use it
for uh printing out braille but so do braille Jonathan yeah I I can I can read it letter A letter B
you know I can I can I can I can read the alphabet sure we're going to test you later I'll hold up
some braille and you can see the reader okay who wants to chip in and get Jonathan a playboy
subscription I think we should send him to the mansion for the braille version
community centers focus they focus focus they they do actually publish a braille version
well you know he only reads it for the articles exactly don't we all uh pay him to say hello
pay well wants me to ask where do you find the raised bumps
not going there HBR community news for December 2013 the last one of the year I thought you
wanted to wait for a new recording what do you do chip chip go on we've moved on we've moved on
I've had coffee everything's fine there's no way this can go wrong now who brought the drone
Irishman no no Ken Ken's had his coffee so there's no way it can stop now that's probably more
like it anyway I'm pasting in the secrets they can use in the IRC partly I'm not I'm not even in
the IRC bugger mumble chatroom and it's in the show notes too I've pasted it and they're ready
oh I already had it open okay hit refresh somebody want to introduce the new hole hosts honky
magua can probably do but tasha tasha I can't but you just did hold here and welcome those two
new hosts to HBR it has uh that brings our total of hosts up to uh over 200 just one second
to someone see this someone's singing this pre-self or song on a mission how many are repeating hosts
sorry to interrupt but can you guys hear me is that my bell and clean here you yeah we can hear you
okay because this is not my normal microphone so I don't know how the levels are sounds good to
me hey bell so how do I say it's very good bill okay well this house it's just a little clip
on lapel mic I left my microphone in England hey and why a bill hey bokeh you didn't leave that
you didn't leave that box store mic in in England did you yeah my my good old band recording mic
Tim Timmy found it in his bag after so he's gonna ship it over but it's exploding in the
Atlantic somewhere I was gonna say yeah but shipping that thing it's gonna cost 3700 dollars
of weight like 15 and a half pounds I thought I might cover it there were total of 212 unique
holes on the HBR network total of 14 140 shows and we've been running for seven years six months
22 days a little piece of trivia that I downloaded today was we were downloaded total episodes
downloaded in 2013 is 1,134,478 that brings a perhaps a download of approximately 4,364 sweet so
obviously not all of those are for all the shows in year but spread over the lifetime they do
tend to get downloaded over time so there you are possibly so if you record a show for HBR you probably
get the audience of a full equivalent to everybody who participates in the first time to listen
to your show pretty pretty cool anyways on we had a hookah with google play music all access
which was on December 2nd so 1390 this guy is just taken over HBR on when he needs to be stopped
the only way you can stop him is by uploading shills I agree anyone like the guy
we only there's a good guy there's actually an interesting show obvious my version to
getting away from google products the issue I have with this though is for me I don't think
it'll lock because the continuous broadband connection here is there so many people the congestion
is absolutely terrible and it's impossible to get a good connection to stream okay you can all
chime in if you wish if you go to the HBR website there's a there's a link to the full show
notes list or to the full episode guys if you want to be reminded of what the show was about
whoa talking to myself without pressing push to talk the following day we had beginners guide to
the night sky by Andrew Conway and this I think was Andrew's first show and it was brilliant
absolutely brilliant I love this anyone else listen to this one I did and encouraged him to do
some more I liked it yeah it was a good show I listened to this one happily happy coincidence I
listened to this one just as the sun was setting and I never look at the sky I never do it never
really been that interesting interested in it because it's too confusing but I happened to look
up and see my very Venus I saw Venus and I wondered what the heck it was because it was on the same
side as of the sky as the setting sun I figured it couldn't be a star and it was way too bright
near the setting sun and after listening to his show I determined that it must be Venus and I
looked it up and sure enough it was and that there just proves that it's pretty cool I've been
waiting for a time when I can get out of all this light pollution to give that one a listen true
for you actually I do miss the when I go home try not to say you're in the middle of sticks and
then the seed sky would have something to do here so more of that type of shows please yes keep
in common keep in common there were a few nice comments from people it's always nice for people
to comment on especially new new host episodes get that little bit of feedback it's great thanks
Polkie yeah that's always my favorite place to get feedback is in the comments so I try to leave
people feedback there in case it's their favorite place as well he's another guy I know from
status net McNally and he also has a podcast of some other status net guys so
don't forget so if anybody wants to check that out well I did not know that I knew him
can you send me can you put the link into the into the sidebar if you somebody added to the show
now please yeah look for you just for people's information we along with Dan from the Linux link
text show has he got done run him away it's like he logged off yeah and keep a track on the
Linux link.net he keeps the track of current Linux podcasts and tech podcasts and we also
help them out with that and if there's new Linux podcasts or tech or security podcasts in general
give us a shout out and make sure they're added to our list as all the idea is to put a
released today section on the hig girl website so that you can see what other podcasts have been
released and it's not on yours. Episode 1393 was audio metadata in org mp3 and others by
epicanos and discusses putting metadata into org flag and speaks audio files. Anyone have any
comments on this? Wonderful show I love epicanos. Don't all speak at once epicanos is wonderful
he just doesn't do enough shows. Yeah I had to thank I had to thank him for that episode because
beforehand I knew the metadata schema for mp3 pretty well but I knew nothing about the org metadata.
I absolutely love that show. I have spent four days writing a rebuttal for the show
new episode coming off very very soon where I disagree with epicanos tune in to an upcoming
episode of hpr. Surely followed by the episode where we vote can of at hpr come on man what are
he doing? Well you took it after we didn't see what comes up. No I've been talking to him about
just so he's going to then record a show dising hours to see how he did that get two shows.
Excellent. Well played. Move your keep Murray and replied to our requested topics section and
give us a rundown on setting up your home blog and the show notes are fantastic linked with lots of
links and installation guides and with the pdf entries brilliant. Yeah someone was really
finally listened to and don't think because somebody's already done an episode on how to set
up your own blog that you can't are one of the requested topic sections just because somebody's
already done an episode and they're just mean that you can't do your own spin on that or what
works for you that's how serious stuff. So fantastic fantastic episode for long keep. The following
day was LibreOffice writer overview of page layout options and again every time Ooga goes to do
a sort I think who I'm going to be able to skip over this one because I will have nothing to learn
and again it proves me wrong. Well I learn something every time I do one. Do you really? It's
second for you too huh? Yeah because the way the process works is I've got a general idea of what
I'm going for and then I sit down with the documentation and start going through with line by line
and open up LibreOffice and start playing with the stuff and and you know yeah I definitely
learned something every time I do it. Are you going to be doing a mail merge one?
Yeah but it's going to be a ways off because I want to just talk about databases first.
Obviously obviously cool. That was that and then the following which probably was a month
was C prompt, Curtis Atkins with the first thoughts on Google Chromecast and yeah also pretty
interesting not so interesting to me because none of the services and users are available over here
so what do you guys think? Back at some food and stuff what we need to boil you talking about?
I have a Chromecast and I love it. I think it's great and it's probably just going to get better.
I liked that one because of that episode I was able to suggest a Chromecast to somebody
and I don't think they bought it but it got them off my back. A Chromecast was a castle.
It's a little dongle that you plug into the HDMI port and then it's you control us with your
tablet or smartphone and you can connect to online services like next to it. Wait a second who
asked? He has to turn his geek card. Yeah I'll turn us if it's not it's not for sale outside of
the States so like I said who asked? He has to turn in his geek card. Yeah I got to disagree.
I had no idea what the Chromecast was until I heard this episode. I had no idea.
Which kind of goes to prove folks if there are technologies that you want to
crimson and just hold on one second. If there are technologies that you want to or stuff that
you have feel free to do hardware reviews then a few this month I phone them interesting
sure all the people did too. I will be doing something for geek card. This one second can we
let crimson may crimson may number pronouncing us? Were you trying to key up there to see your lips maybe?
Okay sorry about that. Carry on. Yeah don't go calling for geek cards just yet they're probably
obsessing with somebody else when it's came down. No no if it's tech it's on the internet and the
internet is worldwide. There is lots of tech. I'll add to what Ken was saying it's not just
from tablets and phones. I actually put most of my stuff on a Chromecast from my desktop computer.
I thought that was disabled. Nope not at all. It's you download an extension to
Google Chrome and it lets you throw up any YouTube video or throw up in fact any tab from your
browser. It's supposed to be some scripts that you can run on a Raspberry Pi to duplicate that
functionality. I've got to try that out. Moving on to the next show which was hit by our community
news and this was the one done by Dave. Yes it was Dave and Huka did a very good job. Thank you very
much guys for stepping in there. Yeah not a problem. And by the way the community news the
original intention of it was that it would be rotating holes so don't feel like you can actually
throw me off this network quite easily just by loading shells and doing stuff. Not a problem. No
complaints from me. Thank you very much. In fact I think you were rotating as I recall. Yeah so
very much so. Oh you got one of those chairs that's neat.
Got a mattress on the floor that I have to lie on from time to time. The next show was one that I
will be bootmarked. Bootmarking is batteries part one by Mr X Man who taught me to solder.
I have already heaped praise on this episode so I'll give somebody else a turn.
There were some toad. Could explain why my recent laptop battery died that's going to cost me
120 bucks to replace. Yeah yeah I could know that. I guess I'm going to have to catch up on this one.
If you've got batteries if you use devices with batteries this is a show that you need to listen to.
Even my wife wanted to know more about this show. Which show?
1398 batteries part one. How they work? Why they go dead? What's the best one to guess?
Or now what's the best one to get? What's the best type of chargers to get? What's the power
ratio and what they're trying to do to confuse you marketing techniques? It was a very thorough
explanation. And it's part one. Yeah it was a very thorough explanation of the very basics of
batteries. It didn't go into complicated math and formulas and stuff. It just told you what
you needed to know and why you needed to know it. It was excellent. What batteries to get? Why
you should stop using any device once it starts going low? I never really understood why they say
don't mix and match batteries. You can't do that inside a laptop battery of course but it made
sense in any other device. If you got one lame cell the other ones are going to be trying to make
up for it and kill them all quick. Right and a neat thing about this episode is
the sense listening to it. I can now draw a picture to explain to people what goes on
but he did it without drawing a picture and that's pretty impressive because I still can't do that.
In fairness, the guy got me to solder without drawing a picture so
explain in batteries is probably easy compared to that. He does have a talent as describing stuff
in your head which is cool. Okay moving on to the next episode which was an interview with Ben
Everland of Linux Voice. Ever add? Ever add. Thank you Everland. Where did I get the L from there?
There you see why I need Orca? There's Jonathan there do when you need him. So for those who don't
know, Linux Voice was running an Indiegogo campaign and succeeded in raising the money they needed
and they had a they were looking for $90,000 and raised $127,600. So who actually contributed
to that campaign? I did. Did anyone else? Yeah I went for the paper edition so I look forward to that.
Yeah when a paper the subscription won you UK?
I donated. I didn't actually go for a subscription though.
Oh yeah and the founder thing of course. Oh yeah that was that was that was my first one I think.
I'm cheap. I only went for the electronic version. I just like to give magazines away at my
lug when I'm done with them so or if new people are around with that cover disk that really helped some.
Okay but who contributed like before you knew the campaign would be a success or who did
after? What do you like? Do you know where it's going to happen?
Oh I did as soon as it was announced because you know the way that was set up I know maybe get
another awesome magazine. I like the guys. Yeah exactly. I did it early too.
Same here and I think it was one of those ones if they don't make the mark and I don't get the money
right? Yeah that's right. Yeah. Okay the following day we had episode 1400 how we use Linux
Honki Magoo who if I'm not mistaken allowed that interview to jump over his show. So props,
major major props to him for his first episode. New host allowing being a good
HDR citizen. I appreciate it very much. Him and Kevin who's on here running the show in the background
went through how they use Linux from a server point of view so they had the introduction to Linux
one and then they went on to how they use it on the server side. I like this. I think the two
guys have the makings of a very natural two and four brain. I enjoyed this one and the show notes
were very helpful with the two because I was able to like recheck stuff later and that helped follow
along. It's very important if you can to give us some notes for stuff because for a lot of people
it's they it's you know you talk about something and then you have the show notes to back it up. It
also helps people find your show because you can't check audio and that's what it's about. So
the the prayers has been enough to show Kevin Wysher out in lounge so we move on I suppose.
I think I'd like to just mention Kevin pointed this out himself but the way he does that is
honky magoo the two of them having a conversation it's a really good way to get a show together if
you're interested in doing a show and you don't feel like I can't carry the whole thing myself.
It's probably a whole lot easier to you know get one or two of your friends you know jump into
the mumble room and just have a conversation. Yeah quick chat. Yeah I agree to hook that. That's
the way I've done most of mine. I've done several that way several of my first ones went that way.
I kind of like those all because they're you know a bit more you sit down with a few lads
listening to shoot in the breeze of Odlinics. Could be yeah what could be better.
And we've got another time zone coming up but I'm not sure who it is I think part of the show and
I don't know who some else is doing that I think. Good call. It looks like it's just Baghdad. Yes
Baghdad. Cartoon. Nightrobe. A dees. Aabada. Aabada.
Cartoon. Auto Sababa. Auto Sababa.
All right. And it's Cartoon. All right well I got Baghdad right so happy New Year's everybody.
Happy New Year. And the next one's an an hour Greece. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
So where were we? Yes community news, HGPR community news on the HGPR New Year show I like it.
Then we had Nightwise who this year joined a HODNOTS network which is his excellent editor and he
was doing a highway niche review which I liked. I want people to do more of this stuff so I don't
have to buy the phones to discover their fatal flaw. So you pre-tune that stuff in. Also it's kind
of cool because you know you think oh that's a comb cast thing you would advise for the not bias
is it good is it not good and it really made me have a you know get decision about what to do
and I was also thinking of like my next phone a big fabulous type device. So we had now I'm
going to butcher the name because I'm thinking about it. Tasha Salah. Is that right? Tasha Salah.
Sounds as good as anything. Well apologies if I get it wrong it's my thing to get me in trouble.
How I started using Linux and free and open source software I like these ones and it did us as
a in-between show so for a show to come out as quickly as that was well done. Cool. Maybe we should
like do that one here as well like a by-way train or something. Sorry what do you mean?
Can you still talking about this time? Yes I am John we're doing the HCR community news
or December 2013 and we're on to episode 3. I mean I should buy that out. No no no you can
we're just going through the episodes so we're up to episode 1403 which was hero on a gaming
granner from Retrospailed Massam. I know that voice. Okay John. Yeah John I think it means
you're supposed to body in. Hey Bill. Hey guys. Good to see you again John. Just give us a few
minutes. We'll be finished off with this second and then we'll get you back to your regular schedule
problem. This was a show about the podcast. They were of us a gaming vlog of the year and it was
just a review of what they do on their show. It's a video cast. It was nice to get it and I want to
thank you CT for his UTFA compliant saying show notes more about that later. Next day we had
editing prerecorded audio in Audacity and this one I did with a as a screencast because this is one
of the I want to build up a library of screencasts for people getting into Linux and putting it
on the HBO website so this was one of those that I wanted to do just quickly how to do very very
basic editing. Did anyone start about putting that up on YouTube as a channel? It's up. Yeah and it's
on a channel YouTube. It's on our YouTube channel. Cool. But there's more of these planned your show
about the that you did later on this month will also be added to that because it's essentially
the next show that I wanted to do. So that was that was that one. In the course of doing this I
realized how very very very useful key to live is turned into an extremely powerful video as
you're very very cool. Libra offers Roger page styles. Huka will skip over that if that's okay
with you. Yep. Good idea. And then we tired this guy anyway. Yeah exactly. The next day the guy
comes on again. Huka or Kofundraisers. So basically about Kofundraisers that we're trying to
highlight today talking to Jonathan about India, Google campaign, accessible community,
community foundation and so on and except the three links that I want to get out. If you happen to
native already please be free to do so now. And I would just point out I did wait for Poki to do it
and he didn't get around to it. So I did it. Michelle by the way you guys were talking on there
about how PayPal accidentally dropped some people from the subscription. And I was one of those
people. So that kind of reminded me and I went back and re-subscribed to the man the name of his
foundation is missing. That's it. Yeah. So I re-subscribed to that and gave a regular donation.
And also it reminded me about something that I had been meaning to do on my web on the school
music website to make it more screen reader friendly which was to put that skip to main content
link at the top of every page for screen readers. So thank you for that. Can we go back half a
step? What was I supposed to do and didn't? I was kind of a joke but I thought possibly because
you had done some stuff with Jonathan before that you might have set up an interview.
And then I just decided to jump in and do it because you know we need to get something out there
fast. Oh okay no I missed that. No thank you. No thank you Huka again and the following day there
was a gap in the schedule because people are using the scheduling schedule anything now.
As I make a note here and that was Mars needs women and hacker public radio in these shows.
Whatever about Mars needing women, hacker public radio doesn't need chills. We have another
263 slots for next year. So if you're free to send us in some shows and Huka this is the one I'm
going to post on the how-to page as well. Yeah and you know I'll give credit Kevin Wisher
planted the seed. I think it was during the last community news. He said something about
does anyone ever done a show like this? Be a good idea. Yeah definitely and if you it's one
that I want to do as well I've actually done a notebook with a list of all the shows that I want
to do and that's one of them as well. Okay CTE send us in another show Drupal Camp in Halkenberg
Addison Berry and others where he forces his students to go to Drupal Camp. I wish I
had a lecture who would have forced me to do that. Excellent interviews, excellent show notes again
and all the information that you need to write there on the page. The next day was a episode 1409
was the ZeroComb Halken Ethernet adapter show by myself which was a segment that I sent into
the Twitter TV network where I was plugging this episode. The fact that we were doing a show here
at the back that they have been contacted with in the sky means that that's the work.
This also was an excellent use of a TV live as a video editor so I might actually do a show
on using TV live because it's pretty cool for the editor. I want me to do lower thirds and put in
put in screenshots and all sorts of cool things and self-respecting video would have not
that big into fading and transitions but you know stuff like that information on the screen,
hack-up of the video, the logo, the charts, the license that information, that was all kind of cool.
And also if people have some old tech knock-around stuff that they can't throw away it will be
an excellent thing to do a little episode on why that old device that you have knocked
around but you keep it knocked around to the camera though. Then the following day we had a
hookah again, 1410, generating keys on the command line as part of the, I see a bug on my website
on the website actually here and that it's not filed on the security ones and I know for sure it is
but I'll get to that when I get to that. For some reason that showed up in my feed about two weeks
early. Yes, I have no idea how that happens. What happened was I went back to Edith's,
I added the show and when I went back to Edith there's a drop-down list and there's a bug in the
CMS. So when I'm adding the shows it's based on a show number, I want the shows to mount it's based
on the data, the show number generates the data. So I had the days incorrectly and then it's
broke everything but within an hour of, well within a few hours of it, at least Dave Morris had
contacted me about a little bit other clicks but I mean Paul Catcher would already download that
morning would have had us in but on a side note I'm glad dig aloud because I use that
episode to start using e-sign. I noticed that. There you go. Then we had OHM on-rope live where
Nido has the shows from that he recorded as OHM 2013 in Netherlands and he was the Omoop
tent while is the broadcasting tent and they were broadcasting FM radio transmissions around the
campsite for the duration and as part of that he did a regular show for an hour every day throughout
the event. He got to talk to the pirate party and the rest of the week is basically the interviews
from those. They're all quite interesting and I'm going to go to have a better listen to them
in the show. We'll also review these in next months which we're around that just to give people
time to listen to them. And that folks was it for Hack and Public Radio 2013 is now closed
bringing on 2014. Which means we all owe Kian a show. Not that I'm keeping a list. I've got a whole
list of show topics to record and haven't done any of them yet of course. As do I, the show becomes
the show once it's uploaded to the FTP server folks. Every time I think of a show topic somebody does
it. There's no excuse. Send it in anyway regardless. Just do it. Because you need, there's no harm.
If somebody does a show topic, there's no harm. You can refer to the other show say I was going to
say exactly the same thing but in my setup I was going to do this after the next thing. So send in the
second show and not a problem. So by the way, you're probably welcome Thistle Web to the room.
Gee, shocked. Do you really cause you've just got a misstage fright? Good evening all.
Good evening, Thistle Web. How are you today? How are you? How are you?
Long time no see, man. Yeah, I did. Yeah. I don't come on a mumble very much. But yeah,
I'm okay. How are you guys? Great. How's your back, man? Still in my...
Actually, I'm doing quite better now. Yeah, I can actually get up and get on it. It's still a bit
discomfort but yeah, it was hell for a couple of weeks here. It was not working good. Not feeling
good either. Hi, Thistle Web. There's one when you would turn up on it. Oh, probably.
Yeah, well, we'll see how long I'm here. I don't think I'll be here that long, but we'll see.
How many days are you on, man? No, not that much. I'm just not doing the mid. So,
but anyway, how are we all? Thistle Web, does your back feel like it's been trampled by the
ins and their in-lives? That might improve it. I was kind of hoping for that, but instead,
I got prescribed valium and desepam. Fortunately, the doctor knows better than I do,
and that worked for me, so it's all good.
Candidates is here in your show notes. You also want to discuss the infrastructure for the New
Year's Eve 24-hour show. Did you just want to recap that? No, this is. We still on the planning
phases. This is a stuff that's been going on in the mailing list, so we just quickly go through
infrastructure for the New Year show. Probably not a loss we can talk about, but now thanks to
everybody who's contributed case time and effort. I think in another 24 hours or so, we'll get
this thing nailed down. Yeah, we're ready for next year. Whatever happened with the ether pad,
or there was an ether pad discussion, or the new own cloud thing? I'll pop the link into the
mumble chat, because the ether pad's out there. We've been using it for the HDR websites,
so we can get the link down. Yeah, we've been using the ether pad all day, and it is beautiful.
It's a wonderful thing. It's pretty good. I was kind of hoping that the own cloud thing would work
out. I've experimented only a tiny bit with my own instance of own cloud, like having a laptop
open over here, and then a desktop open, and typing something, and it worked, but I was not
able to see how it would perform under any kind of load. It does not perform under any kind of load.
That's the problem. Well, it is the first version that has that feature, so maybe it'll get better.
Now, I tried, and I thought about own cloud as well, and I tried it on the hosting that I'm with,
the web hosting, and I thought, I'll try a subdomain and put up that, and unfortunately,
but I don't have an SSL certificate, so it's all HTTP, which is a bit unnerving for
the documents that are going to cross there. But I thought, well, you know, I'll try it anyway,
why not? And then when I installed it, there was, it was in the C-panel, sitting an easy,
soft-taculous one-click install. Turns out it didn't have the right modules installed to make it work,
and it was like, hmm, do I follow this up with a support ticket, or the HTTP thing is just
kind of putting me off a little bit, so I did uninstall it. It looks good though.
Thank you for posting the link to the Etherpad, but I'm on my phone, and it's showing up in
a very clickable link. I can't go there. I'll send it to your status now, you can look it up later.
You can try it from the HR website. John, you can try it from the HR website.
All right. So can I ask what you need to run Etherpad on a box?
You need UTF-AID, I can see that right away. The easiest way to do it at home, if you want to
play around with it, is go to turnkey Linux, and I have a VM that you can easily download and run
in virtual box, whatever environment, and play around with it there. It's very slick to
set up on your own network, if you'd like. Cool, but I was wondering, does it just run on a regular
lamp stack? Could you need anything else? I've looked for Etherpad in a Debian repose, and it's
kind of, I didn't have any luck trying to figure out how to set it up, you know, just from a base
Debian install or anything. Isn't it a node app? Yeah, it requires node.js,
and it requires, it looks like curl, python, open SSL, and it's something called group install.
Oh, okay, it's group install for development tools in Fedora. Let's see if they say anything
else. Gzip. That looks pretty much like, yeah, those are the main, those are the main
right way. I don't know if some reason I had it in my head, you needed to be running a Java
server, but clearly not. No, Java script, not Java server. Cool. Sorry, I do believe there's more
community use. Yes. Okay, thanks, folks. A lot of people don't, don't, not on the main list,
so there's only about two, three percent of people who listen to each other are on the main list,
so I think it's important that community use that we address the topics that we've discussed
on the main list, so people have the opportunity to go over and get them. I won't be too much
longer, so fair with you. Closer to the mic, though, Ken. Okay, that any better? Yes, sir, thank you.
Okay, so we had a discussion about Torrance DeepGeek had the idea of putting the Torrance up,
and now that those are being up and being seated by the community, so we can get those on the
if you go to the HPR website, go down to get shows and download options. There's a complete
download archive page where you can get the full archive, full episode guide, command line script
to curl to get all the episodes full RSS feeds with the Torrance magnet links, and because the
Torrance links are not being maintained, you know, we'll do them on yearly block or whatever,
the remainder are available via curls script, so if you want those there. If you're on the end of the
back of a slow bandwidth connection, be aware that like we've got 62 gigabytes of stuff, so if you
start downloading that stuff, and if you start downloading all the HPR episodes, you might get
hit with a fairly substantial fee, so it might be just cheaper to buy a USB stick, send it over to one
of us, we'll upload the shows to send it back to you, and if you're somewhere that's, you know,
or if for any reason financially or otherwise, you can't forward that, just send, drop me in
an email at adminattackropopagradio.org, and I'll send you a USB stick or some DVDs with the
shows that you want on them. Following on from that, I'd like to thank everybody, all the other
podcasters who played a new year's show Plomo, and appreciate everybody who sent that off to
other shows, and appreciate all the other shows who put that on. It's, it's pretty much the effort,
so it's nice for people to get to send that out, and it was nice for those people to play them for us,
and if people would like to please send us some Plomo's on the website so that people can post
optionally whatever Plomo's they'd like into their own shows while they're editing them,
that would be great, as well as some, you know, some information about their podcasts. We have
more to put a new rule for a proposal for a new show reservation system on HPR, and the text goes
as follows. This means that the next available slot skips reverse reserved slots. If only
host wants the same day, and then well, they should try and make an arrangement with the other host if
they cannot reach a resolution, then the menu should decide. So what we're talking about here is
allowing the option that if you put the next available slot up until now that meant it will be
going out on the next available slot. So right now we have reservations in for the HPR community
new shows that are coming out next week. This is kind of cool for us because it means that even though
the shows are coming recorded at this point, they will be recorded. So it's not really the end of the
world. If somebody doesn't send them the show, we can always use, we can always fill the reserved
slot up with some of our 15 backup shows. I from home would like to know about Colties best
eggs in the world and tattoos mod. So that's an option because it affects the way the HPR system
works. It's important that the HPR community decides on that and approves this. So if you are
listening to this and you do not agree with this, please get on the mailing list and register your
complaints before the end of the next one, where this becomes the, where this is, where this
becomes the law. Kevin Ahuka posted in about doing a brochure for HPR. I hope one could not be
more in favour of this and if there's any information that Kevin wants to link in and if there's
any information that's given from the HPR website, please feel free to contact us on where we'll
try and get that done. Yeah. Could I say a word about that? Of course. This was tied in with
the Libra Office series because the stuff I'm doing with the page layout, I thought it'd be
a good idea to actually go through the exercise of creating what's called a trifold brochure.
I thought, you know, I could just make up something but why not do something for HPR. Now what I
was looking for was some suggestions as to what should be covered, what the content of the brochure
should be. I think can't understood that. I'm not sure anyone else did because I wasn't getting
anything. So I could really, you know, use some help with what the content ought to be.
Well, for now, I was, from my point of view, I think how long we've been running the number of
posts that we have. If you go to hichapopagradio.org, for slash stats.php, there's a, you'll download a
text file with the current stats, which is intended for this sort of thing. Right. I'm hoping about how
to contribute to. Absolutely. Yes. If you have any ideas, if you would post them to the mailing list,
that would be the best way to, you know, get some stuff in there. Good. Excellent. Then I would
like to point out that people, if you could please use the text template, not the hichamal template,
text template for uploading the shows. And could you please fill out a text template header
when you're uploading the shows one per line and fill it out as if you have any questions about
please contact us because we're trying to do a parsing engine now to parse through the text files,
the hchamal files. We've gone back and only about 90% of them are being parsed. And that is
with a lot of code on Michael Pond and Dave Morris, both have been looking at this. And it's
there's a lot of work involved to do that. So if you can do that, it will be the final step in
getting stuff automated from the backend. And then I can basically design. I've been driving
Ken crazy. I've got a question about that, Ken. When you say like the four lines or five, whatever it
is, as laid out and the read me, when you say putting the stuff in there and you're going to be
parsing it, does that mean you want it actually typed title, colon, space, whatever the title is,
or would you prefer to have that that line just be the title? No title, colon, space, and then the line.
Okay, great. And if it's not clear what what I'm asking, can you please contact me because then
I'd like to clarify it. And it probably parsed better if jerks didn't give you a flip and answers
on the explicit field. No, no, I mean, people that's an in joke folks, I was referring to myself.
No, I mean, if the the field that I tend to use most is the is it is the intro and outro that's
the one I use the most, but we want to use the other ones as well for for the entire automation.
So the FTP upload for for intent or for the web form upload so that intent we can put in a workflow
to do this. And in order to do that, we're going to also need to start emailing people back
confirmation emails to say, is this show for you, please click this link or if you upload it,
that you'll have a PGP, a GPG key sign so that we know it is you so you're authenticated that way.
All thing requires people to fill in the those text fields properly and and the whole upload
forms will be based on those text fields as well as Michael is working on a on a Python application
that will allow you to the will ask you question and answers about how to upload your show and
will will do that will do this all automatically and it will it will generate that file print.
So a lot of the final thing to tie everything together is that and please don't underestimate
the importance of show notes. It's very very important for for you know bringing some additional
meat you make your skeleton and then there's nothing more frustrating I think we've all had it
where you know you've heard a show somewhere on some type but it could be you know what it was
done than from TLR or TS about you know that that in six months time you're going to come across
that thing with Dan the number of open file limits and you're going to know well did you discuss
an HBR was it limits in the shell was it in TLR TS and unless there's good journals you're not
going to be able to find this in search engines so folks journals thank you. Last final few things
if I may we had a redesign of the website and I would just like to thank again John for helping
up with that what it does for us on the back end it means that we have a much much simpler setup for
putting pages together we just basically have an indic header dot php and a photo dot php for
and each of the shows slot in nicely it means we can add a lot more pages a lot easier without
having to mess with the navigation systems and without having to worry that adding additional lines
in the left hand side will interfere with the show layout quite often it's been a scourge where
where we get show notes in and perform others in such a way as they obscure the menu on the left
or on the right hand side so this is actually quite clean now it'll be HTML compliant because
if people send in code blocks in an article section it's an article section and browsers and
other devices will know that this is an external entity within the HBR website just stand alone
meaning it's it's done compliant which will please fill up the library no end and finally there's
a shared pad for the year show with the final discussion so you want to pick up the discussion
about that with the terminus HBR features for year thank you tune in tomorrow for another
exciting episode the pack will be great yeah yeah join us now and chill out and I'm sorry again
now are we finished with community news yeah go for sure yep you're really sure yeah I would
share it for two hours you know so it's better in a civil and don't for 29 minutes I want to
I want to ask NY bill a question before either of us has to go or does go NY bill did you bring
the banner over to um uh all camp yep get over and back yeah nice you got some signatures on
there yeah like the whole left quarter is all all camp people no it's so fantastic uh what
banner I would all camp but anyway yeah uh it's one of the two banners we had out on the table
and anybody who was an HBR contributor we we get them to sign it and the banners go around to
the different shows so they're getting a nice collection of signatures now I even have people
we interviewed sign it I figured if your name if your voice has been on HBR you you ought to sign it
correct yep I think it's good that as well I think it's some of the parts that are
compassionate have gone through this year but that might well right if if I'm now outside of the
official um thank you now a bit a bit a bit a little bit of self-promotional thing in here
driven is going to come to a hundred episodes um we're about 91 I think 92 ish at the moment
and we're off for a while for episode 100 what we want to do is have a round table we're not
sure on what we just want to invite do a bit we're recording mumble anyway we've got we've got a
channel on this same server so what we want to do is invite a variety of people just anyone who
wants to join um and chat with us for an hour and a half and if anyone's interested it'll be
general techy stuff it's just as far as I'm aware we're thinking it's going to be just a free for
all basically anything sort of techy anything geeky um so if you're interested at all if that sounds
vaguely interesting at all it'll episode 100 will probably be around about February ish march ish
we'll need to get you sort of details out but if you're interested just let me know um yeah
I'll probably get on the cravings again that was from the full but this yeah it'll be like this uh
general thing well yeah I mean we want to just keep it as sort of free flow and the more people
you've got the harder it is to try and organize any kind of topics usually we've got links and
things like that that we go through but the more the more people you've got on it just can't really
do that but yeah we wanted to do something and we thought the best way to do it was just have
like a round table essentially as whoever wants to turn up um just let us know in advance that
you're coming and we'll hold the show until you arrive um and just let us know basically if you're
interested in joining in with that round table um then you know let let us know sorry self-promotion
over now continue with party cool congratulations man actually no I've what I should actually do
is actually it's still people out again touch it's a good yeah yeah it would be it would be yes
I just thought of it that it's uh given CRIV INS at unseenstudio.co.uk and if that will go to
CRIV IN myself and if you're at all interested um there's for episode it's going to be 100
whenever that happens to be we usually record on a Monday night 830ish GMT um obviously that's
going to be problematic for us folks at the time zones um but we're going to sort of come and go a
little bit for episode 100 um if you're interested let us know and we'll try to we'll try to work
something out that's stable for everyone do you know that addresses on your website
yeah there is like there's a contact um uh there's a contact form that will go to both of us
unseenstudio.co.uk um the CRIV INS one will go to both myself and CRIV um and yeah that's
the one that you want to hit that goes to the same email address cool what episode are you up to now
um but so checking off and I think the last one may have been 92 um I think it was either 92 or 93
it's some zero in a bit there yeah as long as you have to pause them that should be okay with me
because that's uh like end of January early February no sorry the bear events on the 31st January
then it's the actual event on the 1st and 2nd of February and then I come back on the 3rd
and there's also a magia 4 release for 4th time she may all come that uh has planned
so is the vague topics that people have suggested we should try to cover at some point during this
24 hour um marathon or is it just a free for all and just like go riff off each other what's the
worst plan hardly enough we only had two suggestions and it was uh food and dual pain window managers
I he got there before we spoke hey I should have said it slower so everyone could have said it at the
same time yeah no I'm gonna laugh at that and say no I go to go now and do a chance that's the
doesn't mean once I've got that t-shirt I think we can add to that next year discussions about
the violence failed on the next couple uh still more Biden still more Biden speaking of
violence failed on the desktop I do have a suggestion for blind users and games yeah
uh what about mud and muck based games text-based games and as there happens there
happens to be a show in the queue in the backup queue by uh by by platoon on that very topic
the main thing the main thing I'd be concerned about is the ability for Tell Matt to handle it but
it's one of those things I'm sure there's plenty of support in Orca for Tell Matt
I was thinking okay I promised I was finished with community news but I'm not I was thinking
you know what we have 15 shows in the in the backup some of them I'd actually like to hear
well technically you can you've got access to the FTP yes technically but nobody else can
that's why they're on the queue it's about anticipation you're willing build up the anticipation
yeah but they're never going to come out they're in the backup queue so people are not going to get
at them unless unless we can come up with a way of getting them out we have enough in the backup queue
I think so what you reckon about uh being able to ramp some a backup queue out a show out with
the backup queue everything is that idea one of the podcasts that I listen to every week from
National Public Radio broadcast not only an entire show but also what they call bonus episodes
which are maybe three or four minutes instead of the entire hour and so maybe occasionally
you could just release a bonus episode one day and it would come from that backup queue
well I mean Kravins is Kravins HPR Sunday Kravins I believe for the
used to I don't know if I still do we're going to be offered about three weeks so there's at least
some gaps that we would normally take that you can use for someone else now we don't
since last year we're not we're only syndicating one episode of the show and because we don't have
enough free slots it was a build-up of the other people's shows on the queue so all right I'm not
wrong I thought I was trying to help yeah no thanks I appreciate it there you go Poki so Poki how
are we going to release your best eggs in the world episode just pop it out there or what using
a catapult Poki stepped away I think Poki had the right idea we need some people to write new
reserve shows just about 10 minutes taking a picture for him and putting it up and you walk
away yeah okay yeah he'll do that no I was going to say a possible discussion idea as the
well Val said that the whole year of the Linux desktop and whether it's all focused
whatever but if it essentially Linux is one on mobile but it's not through people knowing
it's Linux it's people it's people know it as Android technically it's based on Linux yes it's
not proper Linux but that's that's what it is it's Linux but I'm wondering if the rise of the
Chromebook is essentially the the same effect on the desktop and well not it's not the desktop as
yet but on the laptop the keyboard and that type of form factor I wonder if that's going to be
the year of the Linux laptop through the Chromebook it's just people are not going to realize
that it's Linux it's just it's a Chromebook I'm not sure about the Chromebook but I mean tablet
sure I mean tablet yeah tablet's getting way popular actually the Chromebook puts Linux in
people's hands twice I only found out recently I think it was it was also mentioned on tilts or
another show that Peggy was on the other week I only realized recently that almost all of the
Chromebooks also run core boot which is an open BIOS based on Linux as well no that's not correct
core boot is not based upon Linux oh is it not it's free software in it can run Linux as a payload
but it's not okay okay my mistake that was interesting to find out that I was I was very surprised
by it though I am cool boo any of these open BIOS is I mean with any of you actually go and try
and do that replace your BIOS with an open BIOS because I mean truly if that goes wrong you
compute as pretty much how that hasn't it I will mention a few things the first one is that there
was a while ago where the FSF was buying a certain gigabyte board because core boot supported it
and was actually rather new I haven't changed the BIOS at on it yet because it's in service at my
parent's house but when they retire that machine that's why I picked that board yeah there's a
there's a company in the UK recently started selling refurbished ThinkPad T41s because they
their core boot supports some a lot of the older T60 is it T60 okay my mistake again but yeah
some of the older model ThinkPads as well yeah I was kind of annoyed because I have a T61 not
supported they were identical I can look but I think T16 T61 are very different
you know just when you're talking about these models of T60 and the T61 that reminds me of
another topic that drives me absolutely nuts not just with computers but with all sort of
technology is the the retailers they want their exclusive model so you won't find the same
model of laptop TV or refrigerator whatever and in any other shop it's exclusive to that one
retailer and it's the identical model to the one that's in all the other retailers but they've
just changed the model number just a little bit so they don't have to price promise and that makes
actual support and reviews on nightmare if you're trying to find something if you're saying that
that looks like a good deal I'll google that and I'll find out what kind of prices what people are
saying about it yeah you struggle to find it because people are reviewing a slightly different
model but it turns out to be the exact same thing but just bought my different retail or because
of the exclusivity that drives me absolutely nuts yeah because there's I'm constantly there's friends
constantly come to me it's like could I try Linux I'm like okay what have you got they give me the
model of their laptop and it's one they've bought retail and it's not on any of the there's a
couple of sites that have information on installing various distributions on on a lot of models
from a lot of different manufacturers but almost all of the ones that are listed are ones that
are bought directly from the manufacturers all the retail ones have completely different serial
numbers wrong if I may was wrong the bought-up code boot hybrid up I think yeah we both
brought it up that or is anyone familiar with how exactly that works or how you go about installing
I looked into it a while ago it my information's a little out of date but I can kind of explain it
yeah far ahead I'd like to hear if you don't feel comfortable doing it now as I said this
this day is a little out of date but last time I looked at it it's effectively a proprietary
bios replacement and the way most biosis work is they have some like builder software that they do
the motherboard manufacturers will go through a knell say okay this board has this chip set and
this chip set and this chip set and so core boot kind of has to reproduce that a little bit which
is why some things you know some boards will work and some boards don't and they have and the boards
have supported hardware and so you can go into core boot and you can look up a motherboard and you
can see exactly what's supported and what's not and generally as things go on things get better
supported but effectively what you're doing is you're flashing the proprietary bios as in the
the thing the processor first loads when you pass it on power it on with core boot and then
core boot has payloads that you can choose I think you can have Linux straight up as a payload
you can do grub as a payload lilo as payload there's a bunch of other payloads I know box
which is one of the many like bios emulator type toolkits or I don't know exactly what box is
but it's box and cbios together one of them you can use to boot old versions of windows I think
windows 7 it's possible I have to look into that I didn't really care but I thought it was kind of
cool um and so effectively the idea is that you install core boot you flash it to your motherboard
and you pick a payload to go with it when you flash it and then that payload can do things like
launch grub or whatever and so from grub you can get to your normal bootloader and boot Linux and
I do know that the Linux kernel as a payload is possible so you could do things like kexac
a new um Linux kernel off of your desk and things like that one of the ideas installation
of a combook that I'm learning that it goes directly into Linux I don't see grub at all
you could do it that way yes as I said you can choose your payload that was the thing that confused
me the most when I was looking at it and hopefully that documentation's gotten better it has
hey um just a real quick introduction here jlynsey mentioned in the uh in the irc channel
there's not the t-60 or t-61 it's the x-60s that apparently support core boot
there are there are several older model um thinkpats but I'm not sure which ones are being
there's a group in the uk that started offering them for about 200 pounds that is not quite correct
well the jlynsey is not quite correct you're correct um what I mean is that the t-60 is listed
in the core boot wiki as a supported board i actually don't know what i was correct about now
that's all right you were corrected there that's several the older models are the the x-60 and t-60
are both supported yeah but the um speaking to what you were saying earlier the the um the installation
procedure varies because the boards the the main boards in the machines themselves vary you've got
to do things like um find there's a there's always a jumper or two contact points that need to be
bridged to make the bios chip flashable and things like that and that varies from device to device
yeah core boot has a companion tool it's also free software called flash rom and with the at
least with the thinkpads right now as it stands as recording of the show you have to modify the
flashroom rom sources to allow you to flash the um the bios because it's just that new
okay a correction what jlynsey was saying before was that the ones that glug glug were actually
x-60s all right okay that that was i got that out of context yeah there's the glug glug is
selling the x-60s which is the i think i've seen one at one of the uh meetups or something like
that it had a um it was in a boot to meetup sorry it it's one of those with a tablet and the screen
can rotate around it has like a touch screen and a pen they're kind of nifty yeah they all um
co-toos or celeronzo um according to think wiki they're like yona perin and meron set so they're like
the older intel core two duos uh hovering around two gigs two gigahertz i looked at that web page
and the only thing i couldn't figure out it says uh uk keyboard and i couldn't tell if it was
just in software or the actual keyboard that's in it has like the quotes over the two and that type of
thing that's probably what that's yeah more than likely i mean if it's a think pad they're easily
replaced so i see yeah think pads are extraordinarily modular but just go back to the core boot thing
uh what are the advantages of using that over a bias mostly the payload options and you know it's
nice to know you've got that little bit less proprietary stuff on your machine is that what
allows to do this cure code signing you don't need to do that if you're running code boot but i mean
sorry i'm taking the the concept here of a chromebook that i'm running on here next to me and put
in linux on it was very alien yeah a lot of that was to do with the partitioning as well which was a
bit odd uh i mean linux work runs on it now it works fine but the whole thing seems a bit like a lot
of new technology to me that is that i'm unfamiliar with yeah but the thing you have to remember is
most of the chromebooks are actually already running a form of core boot yeah the main reason that's
fine i get that but uh i just want to know where chromebook ends normal linux starts where the
partitioning is what i want they what's different about my chromebook than a normal linux laptop
in hardware terms are cheap maybe sorry guys um these things are cheap so there are an ideal
solution to replace what was netbooks you know yeah and i'd be at halfway facetious uh would
core boot protect me against bad bios theoretically because you're replacing a bad bios with core
boot core boot is your bios basically yeah but if i had core boot uh then would i assuming bad
bios was an actual thing would i would would that since it's looking for a real bot say the stock
bios would would that be security by uh obscurity obscurity yeah with that in other words you'd
have you'd have you'd have a completely different bios that would have any idea what to do how to
deal with yeah probably yeah i mean it i mean core boot is completely open so there's no you know
it's an evil person can just grab the code and work on it as somebody as a good person can
though the whole thing is that because you don't like core boot if they find a hole in the
biases like allows somebody to to flash the bios who's not you like basically you should have
control over when you flash your bios as a user that is my personal opinion that way computing is
so if there's like a hardware switch you can say don't flash anymore and there's some vulnerability
that allows in core boot that allows somebody to flash that they'll close the hole obviously
yes um the one thing i will say about core boot that makes it good is in this case i'm sure Google
saved a butt ton of money instead of having to develop their own bios instead adapting core
boot to their purposes very true it's sort of the same as um a lot of embedded devices use
um an open bootloader called red boot i think and yeah that probably says it's a
ton of money on getting something commercially developed and with those biases can you still
do stuff like booting from CDs and usb's is it like a magic key component to you just getting
a cm menu um i got a look at that because that that was the thing that confused me was the whole
payload thing yeah i mean as long as the board hardware supported it will
pretty much have most different all of the same options you you'd normally have in a bios
early fireworks if somebody anyway go back to the cool book cool boot discussion it's quite
interesting and i would really love to hear episodes about core boot and especially about this
partitioning as anyone tried the new partitioning on the chromebooks would if i had one
not that expensive i know but i'm tapped out to christmas man i'm tapped out to the next christmas
oh also true for you wonder interesting because they had if you go to um my son for fallon.com
sorry i'm laying down now and i can't find the link at third article or so is a basically a script
that it's uh at the core bone to script and there's a few things that you need to change in the
chromebook and the google bios in order to be able to boot the script in order to be able to install
the clean version of the Ubuntu um quite a lot of the script is dealing with the partitioning
and the partitioning system that they use is not recognized by um you know regular everyday
tools like cfdisk and that sort of thing so you need to use particular commands in order to
partition the drive so um i was happy enough to get it installed because of my daughter's pc but
i can't uh i can't spend any more on them than that because she's using it so so anyone with
more information than me please do shows thanks very much yeah five minutes until Finland and
some other countries as well i'll be dropping off after that so i have to do kid stuff
will he also want to do recording sync at this break
Peggy did you ready to
did you ready to do it
these are you don't don't don't
that's wonderful
oh
john us now
where will make me come over there i think that will solve pegwheel's little our little problem
of having pegwheel use the diger you do if people are going to keep following it up with the
free software song well i was going to you could change the second you tell what it is yet
um but that might be about to be topical oh yeah oh yeah topics also not a lot next year
yeah Ken why do we not have a disallowed topics list this is hiker public radio to do everything's
allowed when they do have other one's topics yep food topics are completely allowed
just do paint do you know what you said last year
yeah well there's a difference between what i say and what hiker public radio loads
i know i think i want is a two-pin filed manager tart
i'm not i'm not biting i'm not telling you i'm not biting
no that's you i've got the t-shirt likes very much i'll not bite
i need to make a two-pipe didry-do
stereo what most memorable episode people had this year
not only on hpr but it's the most memorable tech show of the year the basal sands interview on
tilt oh that's a good one i mean he said he was the guy with the gun control yeah
yeah he used to say yeah 3d printed gun no no no that that was um why am i blanking on him
he was actually talking about a big coin dark wallet uh Cody Wilson
there was one actually if the maybe a month ago i can't remember exactly how long
the learnings outlaws they seem to kind of flag a little bit and then they come back
with a stonkingly good episode i don't even remember what was on it but um yeah it was about a
month ago learnings how it was well i got i got to kick out of those guys because they're
dramatically anti-gun but their litigues outlaw six-gun productions they just like the the
mere concept of guns yeah the the non-real fictional kind no they're like the idea of the old
western style movies and stuff that's where the six-gun comes from i really heard this and say he
he personally thinks guns are cool he just doesn't trust people with them
yeah i didn't mean to talk about something i've gone to be i was just saying um there was a bit
a month ago um learnings outlaw was but i wanted it to go that way okay feel good
great i'm gonna talk about it from and i will walk away i believe in too many podcasts this year and
just this clock is right we've got about five seconds full free to one zero happy year to
other countries it was i think like Greece and Cairo and Cara Athens Bucharest and the things
the way said Finland didn't they this is Finland yeah i don't want to get along you but there's a
few of those things like like Cairo and Athens aren't actually countries they're cities
there are half of cities in Greece the city's in Greece so that's what we're reading off is
cities in Greece yeah i know i'm dismissed half of New Year's to these people anyway
that's it can yeah yeah though it's not that lovely isn't that like keep
uh he's doing you know someone like that wasn't there?
hey hey i love that it was sometimes i was curious to see how
hey hey hey we need to do a sink in here for our recordings
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