Episode: 2855
Title: HPR2855: 2018-2019 New Years Eve show part 6
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2855/hpr2855.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 12:21:33

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This is HBR episode 2008-155 entitled HBRNY Show 2018-2019 Part 6.
It is hosted by Honki Magu and is about 141 minutes long and carries an explicit flag.
The summer is.
The HBR community comes together to say happy New Year and chat.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by an honest host.com.
At 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15, that's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's honest and fair at An HonestHose.com.
Speaking of which, where does it need new episodes of the makers?
Yeah, well, there's door and there's a Aaron that usually records that and we're having
a hard time getting those guys together with everybody else.
That doesn't mean that I or somebody else couldn't record, but we're just lazy, I guess.
I do miss the makers podcast.
Then again, I think it's been about a year since I've had mine working, right?
So I need to actually just hunker down and get some time and try to get mine up and working again.
He or that or just buy a new one.
Which one did you have?
I had a trunk CX1.
Okay, I think Liam on the show has one of those.
Who likes it?
It's not bad, but I basically changed out the hot end.
And since I've changed out the hot end to like a generic E3D, I have not had any success
getting it to work right.
I think the stock hot end that I had with it, I basically just, I've done something
where I just quoted the thing up.
So the trunk CX1 is one of those 3D printers that I consider to be a cheap learning experience
where you basically, you've got to learn a lot of things the hard way.
I've never used one, but a friend of mine I think had one.
I saw it for about two seconds one day.
How's that now?
You sound perfect.
Just right.
Yes.
Great.
So what I was saying before, before I went into Alvin Mode, was that I don't know where anybody's noticed,
but I was on a Mac system and I was using virtual box.
And I noticed that the graphics actually had a penguin in them, very much like a Linux penguin.
And I thought it was kind of odd because I wasn't even, I was installing a Linux system,
but I tried installing a Windows system just to check, but it was still Linux.
Well, penguin graphics and being that virtual box is an Oracle product now, it seemed kind of odd
that even if you were not using Linux that you would have the penguin graphics.
Anybody else noticed that?
When did you get penguin graphics?
Oh, yeah, when away.
I think it was in the wizard.
I have to look.
I took some screenshots of it, but it's on our computer.
But it was basically like in the setup wizard.
And I think after you had a machine set up, it was in one of the configuration pages.
Yeah, I think I know what you might mean.
So like, for example, if you go into virtual box, which I think I even have installed.
I wouldn't say that.
Anyway, you're setting up the wizard to set up a virtual machine, you start the ISO,
and then you go, and it says, what operating system is this?
And you go, you can go like Linux, Windows, Mac, Ubuntu, possibly.
And then if it's Ubuntu, it might change when Ubuntu logo.
If you go other or no and all these Linux, it's going to get maybe a penguin, I guess, or something.
It might be that.
No, it's not that I know what you're talking about where you can have like an icon per virtual machine.
This was something different.
It was like kind of friendly graphics.
A penguin that was working with the toolbox.
And I was on a Mac system at the time.
It was before I even chose Linux or something like that.
Yeah, yeah.
The virtual box is also cost platform.
So I've never used it on a Mac because I haven't Windows as well, obviously.
But I assume it's pretty much the same when it comes to looks regardless of the platform.
Linux, Windows or Mac.
And I assume that virtual box originally might have even come from the Linux world kind of.
When it was under Heno Tech, all those in all the history.
It might explain that a bit.
Otherwise, Apple secretly, like lovely, like Microsoft apparently do now.
And so there's your answer.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think the developers it would be hard to say.
I don't remember seeing the graphics before.
It was kind of a shock when I saw it.
Even though I've been using virtual box for like 10 years.
Well, did you do an upgrade of your virtual box version?
Yeah, it was a recent version.
It was maybe four months ago, three months ago.
And I downloaded a new virtual box for Mac.
And I was getting ready to install.
I forget what now, but I tried installing something unrelated to Linux.
I still saw these, you know, this penguin that was very reminiscent of a Linux penguin.
It wasn't the exact one, but I just thought it was odd because, you know,
virtual box had the family line of being through son and then through Oracle.
And as you said, the company before in in a tech or I'm probably sounding like the office space.
Company, the thing you probably ran into what most certainly ran into was was a.
An artifact of the new generation that may have been a virtual box six,
which is fairly recent.
And because it was a but nine artifact, they didn't remove it.
Yeah, if I search for like screenshots of virtual box online,
I don't see the exact graphics I'm talking about.
But I do see how they have, you know, different logos for the different operating systems.
But the graphics I was seeing were very much like it was the penguin that was the centerpiece working with different operating systems.
So it seemed like it was trying to be centering around Linux, specifically, even though it's not.
So here's the answer, right?
You basically got cracked by Linux user because you were using a Mac.
And they were like, thinking, no, you should be using the looks.
So I'll use virtual box. Let's get into that as well.
And and then they put in the penguin basically to remind you that you're meant to using the looks apparently not not mac networks OS X.
What?
I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
It's fine to make a joke about it. I'm not the best joke.
Actually, he may have something there. How does this read?
Well, I mean, since I was getting up there.
I'm downloading the software directly from virtual boxes website and stuff. It seems unlikely.
Well, what would happen if somebody cracked the virtual box storage server?
Well, they did. I hope they would do something better than just change a little icon to look like talks.
There we go. I found a link. I put a link in the chat channel.
And if you scroll down, it's on sysnettechsolutions.com.
There's a screenshot that shows a penguin holding a hammer and a wrench.
And the screenshot seems to clearly show its virtual box running on a Mac and a Mac virtual machine inside of it.
Oh, how cute. And yes, it looks like talks or enough like talks.
Maybe the virtual box developers just basically me like live. So yeah.
So anyways, one thing.
Going back to nursing, you were talking before about 32-bit systems and pretty much talking about how
making reference to a bunch of old hardware and old operating systems.
But one thing you may not have mentioned, I'm not sure, is the Raspberry Pi.
Happy New Year.
Yes. Happy New Year, Mountain Time.
Raspberry Pi's are actually 32-bit as of now and before.
So it could very well be if they end up being 32-bit for another five or even 10 years that will have systems that will be 32-bit fairly close to 20-38.
Well, the original ones were 32-bit. I believe the newer ones are 64.
Yeah, the A54 or 64, even though they still run 32-bit operating systems.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I've bothered you a bit enough by the new Raspberry Pi's, but it probably makes sense that the new ones are 64-bit now
because it's still getting cheap, isn't it, hardware? Like like that.
No, I think they're still 32-bit. I downloaded Raspberry and recently, and it still only has one architecture download.
No. No, it shows one architecture download.
The processor is 64. A Raspberry is still 32 because the people who run the Raspberry Pi Foundation said that the A54 is the best 32-bit processor they could get even though...
I mean, in other words, they're not right now interested in porting to 64, though I believe there are images for 64-bit.
Right, but even with that, I'm still saying that for the foreseeable future, we could have Raspberry Pi's installed with 32-bit OSs.
You're right, and that could become an issue.
Which case, you know, the people who are working on Raspberry and should really, you know, switch things before that actually becomes a problem.
One of the most interesting things is that the Raspberry Pi, but the last update to the Raspberry Pi 3 series has been made.
Um, linked also to an earlier subject, or not, well, kind of.
You know what the Raspberry Pi was actually made, don't you, NetMiner?
Yeah, sure. Well, actually got made originally, yeah.
Italy, right? Oh, wait, that's Arduino.
No, not Italy, no, not Italy. NetMiner, you know, yeah?
I'm making a joke now.
Oh, you know, where it was made?
The UK, right?
Well, yeah, but when the UK, that's one getting that.
We were talking about Brexit earlier as well, so that's what I said.
Sort of linked to another subject, but not really.
You bet, kind of.
Yeah, not really, but I think it was when NetMiner was doing that word.
So what was it now?
I don't really know.
Well, you talked about Scotland and all that earlier, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not Scotland.
It's made in Wales. It's made in Wales.
Really?
Yes, yes, really. It's made in Wales.
That's where it was made.
And it's all Wales where not much goes on really compared to England and so on.
But yeah.
Well, um, is that where it calling was?
No, I'm not sure what they call.
I think it was England somewhere.
But yeah, there's risk of OS as well, like keeping that alike, keeping that going as an open source project.
And I've been to two, two, a conference for that small one.
And that was interesting.
Twice went to that.
And used to have the holiday calls at school back in the 90s.
It's long gone now.
And the BBC computers as well.
But she probably didn't even know what I'm talking about.
But yeah, isn't there a new risk OS for the FPGA stuff that people are using now?
FPGA was that field programmable gate array?
Basically, you turn a bunch of gates into manipulating a piece of hardware.
No, it's new.
But I know you can run risk OS on Raspberry Pi as well.
And obviously the old A-Core machines and things like that as well.
There's a couple of new ones that are using embedded systems and they make high performance specific processors for single use tasks.
But they do it all in hardware, so it makes it super fast.
Yeah.
And then there's one that, what do they call it, mist or something?
Basically, that's the game system that's FPGA-based.
But I don't think that's...
How could I be based on that processor?
Well, it's risk, but I don't know that it's the open-free risk OS I'm thinking of.
But I believe the proprietary risk OS isn't the old one.
It's basically gone or mostly gone now and it's all about this...
...misc OS that's open source.
Yeah.
But then there are some of the programs that aren't open source.
Like the operating system is open source.
But a lot of the old programs aren't open source as well.
It's like the actual operating system is, so yeah.
Which is an open source version of BOS.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And about HIKO as well.
That's pretty quite good, in fact, the usable of it, something simple.
But yeah, I'm never really used it.
That's going to be interesting to see what happens in March.
Well, the back-set back-set thing, you mean?
Yeah.
No, no, I'm talking Pi Day in March.
Where's that?
314?
What 314?
In America, isn't it?
Is it all?
No, it's not Pi Day.
Raspberry Pi Day March 14th.
Well, we like globally or something.
Very much globally because that's when the Raspberry Pi Foundation tends to spring new...
New Virgin.
Right.
Everybody, yeah.
They really fully Raspberry Pi enough to know about that.
Okay, yeah.
So, they upgraded the last module that they're going to, I think, the compute module,
or one of them to the current V-plus.
Oh, it's the A-plus that they updated to the current Raspberry Pi B-plus processor.
What was that one called, the A-plus?
Yes, the A-plus.
But it's basically a Raspberry Pi 3A-plus.
That was an interesting one.
Joel, you still on?
Yes, though.
But he was talking about...
And I started looking at it, doing it recently, the Alexa Pi and stuff like that.
I started looking at trying to spec it out and trying to figure out how to get purchase
your single board computer, your button.
Because I believe the...
It requires you to have a button.
And then you need a button, a speaker, and a mic to make one of those things.
And I started trying to spec everything out.
And around this time of year, the cost for an Echo Dot, or even the new Echo Third Generation Dot,
is somewhere between $25 to $30.
And I think the Google Home Minis are similarly priced this time of year as well.
But it seemed like it was going to be way too much effort for what I could probably easily purchase.
But yeah, that's...
Because I had gotten...
I actually have two Echo Dots that I got for Christmas, along with two Tbilink plugs that I have set up.
One is set up to a lamp in our living room, which there was no good switch for.
So I wanted to hook that up to it so I can control it through the voice and a lamp in the bedroom, where again,
there was in a spot where there was no good switch for, so we can control it through voice.
And we're just having fun with just playing around with the Echo.
And I was considering putting...
Making using single board computers and making my own ecosystem and putting it up into the kids rooms,
more on the lines of a home intercom system slash a way that we can just kind of play music up in the rooms.
But trying to spec...
Like I was just saying, trying to spec things out for trying to build one just kind of seemed not very plausible.
Yeah, you run into the system...
Builders dilemma, where a dollar, whoever can put together a machine using wholesale parts,
a lot cheaper than you can if you go down to your micro-center or what have you.
I think that's more of a control issue.
You want something that you have full control over.
Yeah, and I would have...
I would have especially appreciated the fact that for the kids to be able to use it,
they would have had to walk up and push the button to get it to work.
And that was kind of...
They wouldn't be able to just straight up talk to it.
I kind of appreciated that form of it.
But at the same time, just trying to spec things out.
I mean, you take...
Even just leaving the price of the Raspberry Pi out of it, trying to find like a speaker mic type of situation
and then something for the button.
And then you want to put a...
You probably want to put a case on it, but even if you leave the case out,
just trying to put a speaker mic and button pricing that out.
You're almost just better off buying your own.
And then I probably wouldn't...
I'll probably just wait.
And if I get anything recently, I've put it somewhere central located upstairs,
like in the hallway or even in the bathroom or something where it's kind of essentially located
between the two bedrooms that are upstairs, as opposed to one on each.
Because I think if they can talk to it right this age,
I have three...
I have a three-year-old and a six-year-old.
Right now, my six-year-old just wants to sit there and not constantly have Alexa tell her jokes all day long.
The three-year-olds can't speak up enough to actually get it Alexa to respond,
but either way, that's why I would have been happier with a button,
but it's just price-wise.
I think it would be...
I mean, you're talking about $25 versus it almost seems like $20 at least,
just to get a speaker mic type of thing that I can plug into, even just regular pie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, two things.
So, Julio, where he's called, look at that video later, I guess, about the brisk OS.
And I was listening to this, but Alexa and all this.
The thing is, it sounds like using this, you know, voice to speech.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, wait.
Listen to your voice.
Getting to do things.
Alexa and it's got talent and all this kind of stuff.
I think, and Apple's got one as well.
I think, I think, testing trust is things, because, you know,
the thing that's going to pick up on what you're saying,
like that could quite simply be spying on you.
That's one thing.
And I mean, a lot of people do use those things, but I won't.
Just a bit like I won't.
I don't like using public Wi-Fi there, because again, that's not secure.
And he ends your device potentially.
So I'm not really worried about anybody spying on me.
That's, I mean, if they're going to do it, they can do it with my phone.
Because let's be honest.
Yeah.
Your phone can be cracked pretty easily, and you're walking around with that thing all the time.
Anyways, I mean, I've debated putting, putting all of those devices,
the plugs, and the Echo dots into a separate network.
A separate network, I'm sorry, I'm kind of plumbing here.
Basically, I have like another, I have an old router that I could probably just hook up to my network
and hook up all wireless devices up to that network.
And it being completely separate from, you know, all the part of the network where all my other stuff is.
And like my DMZ where things like the etherpad are on and stuff like that.
But so it would be on its own network.
But at the same time, you have, you're falling apart.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I agree with that point as well.
And that's a good, that's a very good point now.
And I'll be serving you earlier.
Well, we thought about the purest of the environment, but earlier,
where you've been able to turn the cam off on the hardware switch and all this kind of stuff.
But I totally agree with that as well that these smartphones can be spying on you.
You could, the cam could come on and the microphone that you know in all this.
And I know that full well.
But yeah, you know, I like both, you know, we all use, most of us use phones now.
Even though we know this, some of us know this.
And a lot of people don't know, though, that actually is very easy to simply somebody to get into your phone
because of especially against a Wi-Fi or something.
But yeah, we're basically walking around with devices that can spy on us in the modern world.
And lots of people.
Right. So I don't see any reason to be afraid of echo.
If I'm already having a device in my pocket that can, everywhere I go,
that can record my voice and stuff.
I had the same conversation with my dad over the holidays.
He was telling me, he was concerned about having echo or Google Home in his house.
And I told him, well, you know, Google and Siri are listening to you right now.
What's the difference?
And he said, Siri's not listening to me.
I have to click the button and activate it to get it to respond.
And so he takes his phone out of his pocket.
And he says, hey, Siri, whatever you say.
And it of course spoke up and said, you know, what can I do for you or whatever it says?
And he has completely taken it back by the fact that that thing was on in his pocket.
And he didn't even know it.
Siri is the Apple one, isn't it?
Yeah, Siri's Apple.
What's the Apple?
For at least the keyword, you know, and there've been cases, but I don't think they were given any information.
But, you know, Amazon Echo was listening to people and crime happened.
And I think they didn't turn over the data.
But it was clear that they had recorded the data.
What's the one for Android?
How do you get?
What do you say to the number one?
OK, Google.
Oh, yeah, of course.
OK, Google.
Yeah.
The name is.
I believe.
Google.
OK, Google.
But the home you can change to say, respond to other things.
And there's the Apple one, as well, isn't there?
Apple, sorry, Siri.
Yeah, because of a iPhone as well, which again, that's going to probably be more likely to spy on me than anything else.
But yeah.
Actually, it seems like Apple has been very, they're pushing for the whole security thing.
What is it that they would somebody was trying to sue Apple to try to get them to unlock somebody's phone?
Wasn't it the FBI or someone?
Yeah, I think so.
Right.
So they're actually pushing for security.
So as much as you don't like Apple, you shouldn't like Apple because they try to get you locked into the Appleverse where you have to spend, you know, 13 grand for a computer and, you know, $800 for a frickin' phone or whatever the hell it is.
But you can't argue with the fact that they're making an OS that's designed specifically for their hardware.
So that's going to work really well.
What do you like the operating system or not?
I mean, that's all some people's opinion.
I haven't used a Mac, and OK, I've never really used a Mac.
But I can't argue with the fact that I'm sure it works well.
Apple is also doing the news.
I'm not sure how much the other guys have as far as...
The thing with accounting gigabytes of data on people's phones, that's been recording continuously all this stuff.
And people didn't know about it until their phones started not working, right?
The thing with Apple as well, though, is...
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like the hardware looks quite nice in a way.
And the lipstick, I think I like people saying the operating system and the Mac out of the graphics and all this.
But then they get a lot of people who don't...
People don't really...
We understand tech for the most part here.
But we are not average people in this context.
Average people have very little understanding of tech and how it works and all the rest of it.
And they are basically...
And a lot of these people then go for Apple products because they...
I guess it could be partly because they've used Windows and they kind of know it at the back of their mind.
It doesn't work very well.
Crashing reboots, viruses, but it's not just that.
It's like Apple as it's like, hey, it's cool.
Let's buy an expensive device because all the other people have it.
But then it does...
I mean, iOS is quite boring, I find.
Compared...
Or from what I've seen a bit.
I find Android boring as well.
But they both work and they do the task and they actually work and do what they're meant to.
They work reasonably well.
And so people have iOS devices.
But it's like, hey, it's cool because it's expensive as well.
People think, oh, yeah, it must be worth money.
That must be worth it.
But generally Linux people seem to give Apple less flak than say Microsoft or the old...
Well, yeah, Microsoft because of how it's sort of, you know, BSD based or whatever done the Mac.
And it's not too bad on the iOS, I guess, how it's designed.
As stupid as it sounds, it really has probably nothing to do with tech and more to do with the fact
that accessories and customers and scanning you can do with the iPhones.
Because there's only like two or three versions available at a time.
Skinful themes, oh.
No, I mean, just the actual hardware, like you can go out and get a case that's personalized to what your tastes are.
Oh, cases, why?
I mean, there's like a zillion cases available for an iPhone, but there's only a couple available for any version of an Android device.
Because there's so many Android devices out there.
But you also have to remember that iOS likes to do what we like to call the...
Was it the OS rot where after a while you're operating a system that will no longer work with the hardware?
No matter how much you...
If you just keep updating things, it's just going to make the whole system completely stop working.
And it kind of forces you to have to buy new hardware.
Well, like Windows used to do...
Did Windows do that?
No, they just make a consume so many resources that it doesn't run anything, right?
Right.
Other people with Windows, you could still like...
Obviously, you wouldn't get any updates if you run something like XP or whatever.
I know they've worked pretty hard to kill that now.
But, you know, it's not nearly as bad as iOS, which I mean, everything seems to be working fine until you update.
And then everything starts to run like crap.
And then you update again.
And everything starts to work, leaving them more like crap.
And I mean, I know people who had their hardware for a while.
And like, yeah, everything was working fine.
I mean, the only thing they're doing is going on the internet and using a word processor on the thing.
So, you know, why should everything just go to crap?
But everything just slowly went to crap.
And they had to wind up buying something else.
We had a real turn in the office with an iMac desktop.
And first, they had to update what Firefox or Chrome or something.
And then that wouldn't install the new version because it wasn't the newest version of the iMac operating system.
And then, at some point, I think it was QuickBooks or some other thing,
where that also wouldn't install an update because it wasn't the current version of Mac OS.
And they did end up having to buy a new machine just so they could run the software they normally used just three years ago.
Exactly.
It wasn't like the last year or so that said that iOS on the iPhone was actually updated.
It did something that actually brought the speed of the phone down.
Yeah, they were sued because they killed the battery life if your phone was a certain version.
Right.
I just had a mumble crush or something, so I just restarted that.
He said to me like, it's not just that.
And then my mumble problem there, she'd like me ahead now as well.
Well, I was just saying it's also the fact that Apple does the OS rot,
or if you're on a piece of hardware for too long,
the operating system will force you basically with every update,
start degrading the system to the point where you have to,
they may need almost force you to buy a new hardware.
And they do that on both OS X and other iOS systems.
Well, I think the many two things is so yet one point was that they've recently emitted
the slowing down iPhones because of when they get about two years old,
so people apparently buy new phones.
And they were like, no, it's not that.
It's just because of performance.
And then I was talking about people going for Apple in the first place
with a mumble crushing.
And why people, yeah, why people go for Apple in the first place.
It's simple.
I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with simple and everybody else that they know has it.
And since like everybody they know has the same thing and they're using the same thing.
And it's a very simple interface.
And I mean, you can't really argue with that.
I mean, with Android, Android is kind of turning into what Microsoft is on the desktop where
there's so many applications and so many different versions of it.
It's kind of like when you buy a computer and it has windows on it,
it's going to be kind of like, you're going to get the Sony version of windows
with its with its theming at first.
I mean, obviously you can take all that stuff off for the most part,
but it's the same thing when you buy an Android phone.
You get the LG version of Android with all of its stuff with all of its stuff on it and whatnot.
So it's Android has become so big in a Play Store, so big.
And there's so many other marketplaces where you can get stuff where the iPhone is.
You're given this iPhone.
You have basically this is what you use for your texting.
This is what you use for, you know, if you want to do video conferencing,
I don't know what the hell it's called.
I'm blanking on it for video conferencing with other people who have iPhones.
You use this app and that's.
Yeah.
You're basically going to screen with a bunch of apps and that's it.
While with Android, you're given it's like a desktop.
You swipe three different types of desktops that you have.
You have widgets and stuff like that.
You don't have widgets on iPhone.
You just have, you just have the big bold icons for those applications.
I've got public holding on, but now I'm doing it again.
Anyway, yeah, I guess you have a point there.
So the people have gone for iPhone Apple because I mean,
even picking like something like bungee with its old Unity and space in a way,
but being inspired by Apple, something I sent anyway, but like,
you have the icon, you have that.
But yeah, you have like one option.
So actually, although you've in the window, you've got like your start menu in space,
and that's about it there.
But yeah, it's like you've got one version.
This is how it looks.
Everybody has an iPhone.
They're going to see the same thing when it comes to software.
The same theme, the same general look,
and everybody's getting that the same thing.
Whereas with Android, it's like, well, there's Samsung,
there's Sony, there's different implementations of Android with different themes,
and boot up graphics, and even the apps that are pre-installed to an extent.
And so you go like Samsung's Android, and you go like Sony's Android,
and you go like LD's Android, and so on.
And I think that's the point you were getting that as well.
Well, yeah, but they also have, like, again,
I have very limited experience with iOS products,
but from my understanding, for the most part,
the screen is pretty much just a bunch of icons for choosing your applications.
And then you will, I think there's a bar in the bottom,
maybe for some quick applications, but it's not like Android,
where Android is almost set up like a desktop,
where you can have, you know, one desktop that's just your calendar,
another desktop, where you have certain applications,
and other widgets and whatnot.
I don't think there's any widgets in the iOS sphere.
Yeah, yeah, and I think I saw that you can have user accounts,
and I'm drawing them on my Sony for India Day,
but yes, only on iOS handheld.
I think so.
Like again, interesting.
You know what that is?
That's Windows 3.1.
If it's Windows 3.1, then it's Windows 3.1 with much better,
nicer looking graphics.
Well, I'm working, networking with iOS,
but yeah, the graphics are so nice to an Apple, aren't they?
That's top of it as well, the general feel and the...
Well, talk of it like this, it's kind of like life.
You know, Apple is simple and pretty,
but rarely is simple and pretty good for a long-term relationship.
Oh, yeah, I suppose.
Well, actually, it's like nobody got fired for buying IBM,
for people who want their hands held the way Apple does,
having everything in the walls garden of Apple Store and Apple OS
and Apple branded SSDs and Apple branded discs
and Apple branded screens, it is a safe choice.
It's an expensive safe choice, but it is a safe choice.
That's the brand as well.
Oh, yeah, it's so cool because it's expensive, like I was saying.
It's a brand people know, but saying that even with Android,
you know, to an extent, you know, Samsung is the biggest player
because those people have Samsung and know and about and yeah.
You've also been a good point about the whole wall garden thing
because I think Apple has done a good job of marketing themselves
as being a wall garden for businesses,
because there's a lot of businesses that will hand out Apple devices
for their users and they have them locked down
so that the only thing that they can use
is their proprietary applications on their systems.
I'm not sure whether they think that it's a little bit harder
to do on an Android system or if there's too many products out there
that you know, they can't nail one down to be able to...
Who made that point?
But yeah, there's that as well.
There's a tie in between the hardware and software
and talking business and consumers even.
And it's all right there.
This is the Apple way, basically.
This is the hardware.
This is the software you went to run these together.
And I've read that recently,
it's one of the Macs couldn't run the notes for now.
They can run the notes or whatever.
The new Mac or something like that.
But there's a lot of businesses that will hand out
to their employees like Apple products.
Like I know what my mother does sales reping and they handed her
and I've had to be able to check in all the information.
Oh yeah.
Because I think it's locked down to that version of software.
They do that here now as well.
Sure, they get iPads and business data,
maybe schools even.
But the only other choice will be Windows.
And I think Windows is kind of like I was saying earlier.
I think Windows is basically showing to people
that over the years, even non-technical people,
that it doesn't really work very well.
It can get better.
It can crash.
I mean, look at Windows Phone, for example,
which they just dropped last 2018, 2017,
whatever.
That's completely dropped the phone project
because it wasn't going to compete against Android.
iOS.
And it must be because people know the back of their mind
that it's like, you know,
there's no PC that didn't work that well.
So why don't I want my phone when there's an iPhone
and Android out there, might they'll use that?
Right.
Now I wasn't talking necessarily about the desktop.
I'm talking more in the lines of they're pushing out their iPads.
And I mean, there's some schools.
Schools have seen it be going somewhere between Apple products
and like Chromebooks and stuff like that.
Because the Chromebooks, they've done a good job
at walling off what they can install on them.
And only having pre-installed the software
that they use for their schools.
Well, there's a lot of businesses that they'll hand out
to their employees that are on the road and stuff,
things like iPads.
You know, I'm not talking about necessarily Windows.
Windows isn't even in the mobile marketplace as far as I'm concerned.
They don't, they don't, they've just completely failed
when it came to that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
They've totally dropped the old Windows phone.
But I'm saying it's because consumers didn't want it
or not enough people who've mostly sold in mainland Europe
probably read somewhere.
That's where people have Windows very mostly apparently.
But with the Chromebook, that's a good,
that's an interesting one as well in a way.
Because yeah, it's very dumb down and all that.
But you can stick your own notes,
they're strong enough, you know what you're doing.
But again, it's called Google behind it,
which people, the mainstream know Google.
Google, the people trust Google enough in the mainstream.
And they know for Google because the search engine also
because of Android potential anyway.
But you know, it's Google.
So it's like, oh, Google, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool.
We'll have this cheap Chromebook and use that, sure.
And we'll give kids that at schools possibly.
Because again, if big brands make no a name,
say people, you know, people trust big companies
have lots of money generally speaking.
Well, but it comes with Chromebooks.
Chromebooks, I think, are cheaper.
Plus the fact that they do have the ability
to do other things with them.
But it takes a little bit of know how to be able to do that.
And a lot of times if, you know, the teachers find out
or somebody finds out about it,
and they all they have to do is bring that in.
They can wipe bits and reflash it to the, you know,
the original stock with the original stock applications
on there, and then just send them right back out.
Who was it?
I know Kevin, Kevin with the Kevin Whisher
just works through in the K through 12 school system.
And I believe they are all on, they're all on Apple products,
iPads and stuff like that.
What if it was Tarja who was talking to when the school system
that he was in that they gave him Chromebooks?
Well, maybe the schools that they gave him now iPads
have all money for this, right?
And then the ones that give him that Chromebooks
don't have as much money.
So they're being cheap and giving that Chromebooks instead.
I don't know.
Well, it's my understanding that these, you know,
they get all the hardware back at the end of the year and whatnot.
So, you know, Apple, I know Apple used to be big
in trying to get their fingers into schools
by giving away a bunch of free stuff, I'm not sure.
If they're trying kind of the same way
and trying to work their way into schools
and work their way into kids' hands
by giving them a bunch of hardware for Chromebooks.
And Microsoft did that with Colleges here,
which is not the same as America, by the way.
But similar as you can, any Colleges
and schools, possibly.
You should in this channel.
So you get windows for free or Microsoft Office for free
because you're a student or a training teacher or something.
So I remember getting the full Microsoft
for $5 a CD, five bucks for the iOS, five bucks for Office,
five bucks for the programming environment,
pretty much anything for five bucks on one CD.
Wow.
Yeah, they know what they're doing when I was working for,
for a school, you know, if, if Microsoft charged
for Office Pro or any version of Office
would charge it, they charge it to the school.
I would have been installing open office
all over the place or Libra Office.
But, you know, when they're charging $68 for Pro
or, you know, maybe Office Business or whatever,
you know, it's hard for me to convince the administration.
Yeah, say $68 and get this Office suite
you're not familiar with even though it's better.
Yeah, I remember.
Is it the iOS upgrade like $50 or $100?
I like how $51.50 says at the end of that one.
Even though it's better because, I mean,
I remember having a debate with the guy
who up camping last, uh, 2017, yeah,
canterbury and we were sitting there on a Sunday night
at the hotel and we went into the debate about Libra Office.
There's a guy who will, um,
Matt on Impress might know that name somewhere.
The guy does bunty Marta and things like that.
And I was with him and somebody else
and we were there like full 30 in the morning
having a debate about if the office really is good enough
or not compared to Microsoft Office.
And it's like, yeah,
we should fully get out, get some sleep
could go check out of the hotel later.
But, I mean, I would say in many ways it is
better than Microsoft Office or usable or, you know, good enough.
But then there's a few specific features
that only certain people need it can't do
or doesn't quite do the same.
And, and it's, it annoys me a little bit
with my same older brother, for example,
he's doing teacher training now.
Um, he got a laptop off the computer fair,
you know, got a cheap price idea.
He might have bought that one.
I put a bunch on it.
Um, and, you know, he's got his email.
He's got his Firefox.
And he's scratch for the programming for kids thing.
They use it now.
From the battery pie world, I think originally.
But he, you know, you think you can
have a better operating system.
But then, um, he phoned me up a few weeks
or two weeks later or something was like,
so yeah, but I got a confession.
I can hear the windows noise in the background
on that phone call, but he's like,
so yeah, I got a confession.
They gave me Microsoft,
they gave me Windows 10 for free.
So I've upgraded Windows 8.1 to that.
And he's, you know, that's what they do.
He's got people in with these free giveaways.
And then when people don't want to give
something else a chance enough,
like the office or when the past open office
or any of these alternative things,
they just stay locked in basically.
And then Microsoft wants to do it with the schools and all that
because that's part of it.
Get people locked in when they're young and all that.
Well, before Microsoft Apple was selling 68K max
to schools for half or a third the retail price.
So they, they were doing it first and then about,
about the time they switched over to the IBM processor,
the power PC processor,
I think they couldn't afford to do it anymore and quit.
So I got to let a lot of legacy schools.
And they were like, well, what, you know,
they started out buying max and then suddenly max
were expensive and they were like, well, why,
why are we spending all this money on max?
I would tell them, yeah, why are you spending all this money
on max when students get out of school
unless they go into art or something,
they'll never see a Mac again.
Yeah, I think my entire high school was pretty much max.
Except for a very small,
it's very small lab where they taught some of the,
I don't think it was Microsoft office at the time.
I don't remember what the heck it was.
I think it was like a me pro and stuff like that back then.
Yeah, only one lab where we had IBM stuff.
Yeah, so my...
Back in my...
My secondary school, you would say,
or high school, you would say, over there, I suppose.
It was basically Windows PCs and then there was a few max
but only really for the art students or music students.
And also college, which is not the same in the UK as earlier,
but just some rubbish, ICT course, IT course.
But you'd open a computer up,
it was slightly more technical than that one.
No level was rubbish,
but there was,
they decided to put something in the back open office,
which was kind of nice at the time.
But yeah, sort of rubbish,
ICT teaching in this country.
In fact, I say the whole of the UK,
and for the most part, anyway,
is very behind when it comes to say IT
and computing and all that compared to say,
somewhere like Germany,
where they have actually embraced open source
in certain, like,
Munich or the U-turn and gone back to Windows,
but they've rendered a switch to Linux
and open office back in 2004 and things like that.
Well, I heard part of the problem with Munich
is that they had to have their own custom Linux.
They didn't just go with open source or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Custom Linux.
Also, I just before, in case I forget to say this,
there was a story about the Google CEO
or something like that came over to London
and was in some conference where people from schools
and also people in the government, MPs,
and he said something like,
oh, you know what?
ICT is really rubbish in the UK.
All you do is learn Microsoft Office,
and that's about it.
There's nothing about programming or anything like this,
and so apparently the people in this audience
dissend a bit and it was like, right,
we're going to do some programming teaching at schools
and we're going to do things like this
or try and get into curriculum
and also the Raspberry Pi,
I believe, got reduced quite soon after that as well
because the idea was to have young kids
being able to learn programming with a cheap device
about 30 pounds.
And I think it's improved slightly since,
now it's learned scratch like I mentioned earlier
to do basic programming,
but it's still quite behind
and, you know, yeah, and stuff like that.
Well, if I was in school,
I sure wouldn't take my bed.
And that is an inside joke
that maybe 10 people in the audience listening
will understand when this is broadcast.
Wait, so you're not going to miss that,
again?
So if I said if I was in school,
I wouldn't take the iPad.
Well, no.
Well, you have a choice.
That was a reference to a DevRandom days, wasn't it?
It was.
Haha, got it.
See if you tell everyone
that it's no longer funny.
Well, maybe they'll go back and listen to the old DevRandoms.
That's true.
They're still out there.
Is it DevRandom.org?
I should know.
Yeah, definitely go back and listen to DevRandoms.
I think they're still relevant and funny.
That's true of the relevant,
but they're definitely funny.
But yes, like, you know,
something maybe comes really popular
in general, like can I,
like an iPad or an iPhone?
It could be, or it could be something else,
depending on the time,
what year we're in, you know.
And it's like, hey, cool.
Everybody on it.
Like, loads of people have this.
Or that's the more expensive thing.
So if I've got money for that,
I'll have that.
You know, I'll give it a slightly cheaper thing,
Android in this context.
And then, yeah, that's what people do.
And then those two players,
it's called having a stranglehold,
I think, of the whole market,
have a stranglehold, I think it's called.
And then all these alternatives
that in many ways are technically better,
such as UB ports,
which is, you know,
you're having on the Ubuntu Touch project.
UB ports are actually very good for the hits.
And I know, as I know,
as somebody with devices,
also know that cell-fetch OS
is very good for what it is as well,
from YOLO,
or a lot of former Nokia developers.
But yet, these two things,
I guess, you know,
never ever going to go mainstream
when you're anywhere close now,
because how it is,
and it's a shame in a way,
but that's, you know,
that's how it is, isn't it?
The market takes,
and if people don't,
if both people don't know,
tech enough, then,
well, yeah, you know.
I think a lot of these things
have a better shot is,
like, just for the American market,
if you didn't find a carrier,
that would actually carry these things,
like, and get,
at least 4G,
you know,
whether it's CDMA or GSM,
doesn't matter,
as long as somebody,
would actually,
in the US,
would actually carry these things,
and they'd get an actual phone,
or then there'd be a lot of people
that would actually buy it.
Not as big.
You're not going to,
you're not going to, you know,
put a dent in the marketplace
of Android or iOS,
because there's too many people,
let's, let's, let's,
let's be honest,
there's too many people out there
who are not actual technical people
who are using these devices
every single day.
I mean, as much as,
I mean, this,
this goes back to,
to an argument of,
you know,
has the world
completely turned into mobile.
Yes,
there's a lot of more people
using mobile than there are,
people using PCs,
but a lot of the same people
who are using PCs
before are, you know,
still using PCs,
and there's,
but there's a lot more people
who are not using PCs
before who are now using mobile.
But if you can get people
who are,
want something else,
or they,
you know,
are intelligent enough
to try something else,
I think,
and you can actually
get a carrier in,
like the US,
you know,
actually aren't a device
where you can market
that device.
That's a huge issue
inside one of these things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So you need a carrier
and network,
as you would say here,
but yeah.
Or,
or some sort of hardware
manufacturer that's
ideally knowing enough about,
because I mean,
like a brand new touch
on the conical,
and it did get to hardware players.
They got the,
well,
there was a Chinese,
Spanish BQ,
and the Chinese,
Miser,
so in Spain,
BQ,
was reasonably popular,
and in China,
Miser,
was reasonably popular,
but then you couldn't get into the US
because of,
well, as easily,
because of how,
it was kind of sold
to which countries and that.
But,
they couldn't get the carriers.
No, no,
they couldn't get the,
you couldn't get the phones
into the US,
or not as easily.
I think you couldn't,
you could still buy a phone.
Or you could,
you could,
you could get the hardware
device into the US,
that should be too hard.
Or you could get the phone in,
just forgot about,
you could buy a phone,
sorry,
or,
okay,
let's try it,
and we can
press the secure sensor,
so,
we can click and
we can press just because
we open the
storage,
you'll just
press the secure,
but something else.
It's all back home,
and I went home and
at the tripod
it was there
where
It was a bit of like three pounds really cheap, but already old and I bought it in like
2015 or something and but it was from like maybe 23rds 14 or something but with from like 2012 or 2011
It was like predicting the future of like Firefox OS and what might happen
Was it called mobile pharachrist or something?
Yeah, I don't know mobile pharachrist or something like that. It was interesting because I read it like three years or so later
so I was talking about how like Firefox and
Could have a chance and a bunch of touch and maybe you can sell fresh it change in the duploy and
Things like that how it could maybe do it and I you know never they've never really changed anything any of this because I've never
None of these could compete in that sense really, but it was interesting reads to read like two years later
I can't remember what I booked called now, but it's here somewhere
But yeah, it's interesting like this is 2012 user of addiction and so on and then you see like well
That didn't quite work out, but they won something here with some of these points
And that's what if the whole world's your mobile well
That's debatable, but but yeah, I mean most people who use either computers or
Mobile devices are mostly using mobile phones and tab and then possibly tablets as well for those of tablets and
That the desktop computer laptop is
You're going to be using your face still for like word processing all that show spreadsheets and all that stuff
But and it but other than that not that much noted maybe graphics as I'm a cad for those who do you like sure and then gaming possibly
But but it's like I mostly use mobile devices myself now and have done for
Even just inside your house or your flat, you know, we have a laptop as well because for basics, you know email
The season music
browsing internet
You know, so it's all fine on the phone for the most part
So why sit there with a bulky laptop?
Wish I'm doing right now
Right I was more arguing the point that everyone that some people like to make that
The laptop is basically dead and I'm saying that yeah
That's that's that's not really a thing because as much as you can write an email on your phone
It is but it is more than like a few lines. It is way too damn tedious to do on that phone
I need a keyboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can plug a keyboard then possibly, but yeah
Yeah, I'm not getting I'm a plus than a Bluetooth keyboard just to write a thing
I'd rather just get my my computer out and if it's if it's more than a few lines
I'm just going to write it on a on a freaking laptop and it's I look if I just want to check something quick
over the net or you know
Do a quick search through the the social media networks or something like that. Yeah phone
I mean my the browser is going to work a lot quicker on my phone and it is on
Under my laptops for the most part and it's going to be a lot quicker
But if I want to do pretty much anything else I'd much rather have a laptop for it
I mean it even if it's like most of my little projects around stuff around here are going to be things like
Trying to connect to one of my silver computers through SSH. Can I do that on the phone? Sure
Again, it's going to be a lot easier to type a lot of this stuff out with an actual keyboard as opposed to to try and to do that or on the phone
Well, yeah, so that's another point in a way, but yeah, some of the
Program or things you want to do are gonna be best on a phone or okay on a phone possibly best one a phone
Or just better on a computer. I mean I see as a great example
In my I have why I tried somebody I see clients
I mean I tried web I see even on a mobile phone that didn't really work for you know web I see key
We are see all this kind of stuff. I tried to get some sort of app in Android as well for I see you now to go at something
It just didn't seem to work very well
And then your phone goes on to suspend and you disconnected a fire see that's another issue
And you just never really worked very well on the phone
But obviously if you bring up a laptop or a desktop it works
That's absolutely great and fine because really I see was designed for a laptop on desktop anyway, but
And then again like you can have like computer grab I think make the computer graphics really myself
But I could provide this as an example anyway if you're going to do graphic design
You're probably going to turn to your laptop or your desktop your PC or Mac or whatever
Not your mobile
Phone or tablet even though you could probably do it there
Because on the day on the computer will have to go a bigger screen and you probably got some better software for any way that works better
And they're either in again cad or something else. I don't do you're not going to do that on your phone or your tablet and
Virtual machines I think you might be able to run on some of these phones eventually if not already because these hardware is always getting better
But you know you're gonna do we're talking about virtual machines earlier. So yeah, you know
You do virtual machines on your less on your laptop or your desktop. You don't think hey
I'll just do a virtual machine on my mobile phone on my tablet
I mean look at audio playing a brother. I'd rather have you see how it's my phone because it's actually portable
A lot of some a lot of times video playing. I don't like playing video on my laptops at all really
I'll I'm probably fine watching video on my phone
But anything that actually requires typing I think I'm gonna need an actual laptop for because like I said
I'm like I even have a Bluetooth keyboard and I have a tablet and whatnot
But it's it's not the same and maybe I just need a better Bluetooth keyboard
But I still would rather but rather open up a an actual laptop and do work that way then
You know trying to do it on the phone browsing on the other hand
But I think my browser on my phone works a lot faster than browsers. I'm probably all my all my computers
And I don't know if that's yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I agree with but yeah, yeah, browsers on the phone seem to work
But you I can say in different operating systems like in fact
Okay, Android show iOS show yeah a bunch of touch cell fish firefox OS
Ties and I think I tried one and I got ties and phone
You know, well, you know, yeah, I'm about where I seem to work really well
But on the desktop you putting you've had the same thing you know your firefox crashing or the profile goes wrong
Or your Chrome or ever goes wrong as well and it's a bit slow
When the the desktop
Browsers are gonna open up a lot more crap and you know, and I maybe I need to run no script or start running a
Pie hole or something like that, but when you open up a desktop version of some of these web pages
There's too many like videos willing to play ads on the corners and stuff like that
That I want some load up so it takes forever to load up some of these general pages while the mobile version of these pages
Just kind of load up, you know, it's spontaneously like that. I also with it too. Yeah, yeah
Running multiple tabs and multiple browsers on your phone. That's true, too
I usually only run about like maybe eight tabs at a time on my mobile
I know I don't get up there into the
30s or
I do have sometimes I don't know 15 windows tabs open the mobile, but it seems to be okay
But yes things are like a stout down and also I wouldn't say about the video point so I
Mean people like different screen sizes on a mobile device even for video
People you'll usually want a slightly bigger screen over the fork, but even on a small screen
Video can come out quite fine, I would say and then some people are like well, just watch on a laptop
I find that video is
There's generally fine on different sizes of screen even and different mobile operating systems even
But it's also works usually fine on on a laptop as well. Yeah, if I can break in it's time to
A little past time to say happy new year to the
West Coast of the United States and the rest of the Pacific time zone. Yeah, yes
Have a new year 50 how many of tabs? What's what are you maxed out by?
How many tabs have you the most amount of tabs? There we go. That's right
How many what is the most amount of tabs you've had opened on the browser before on a desktop?
I'm embarrassed to say there were times probably maybe
I haven't lately, but maybe 200 or something
How did you open something to say yeah, I want to I want to look at that deal with it later and then rather than bookmarking
So
California and Mexico I guess up in the year and you're thinking with tabs
200 others
Yeah, you can end up with about 56 you're putting quite easy actually depending what you're doing
Well, I anymore. I'm running a lot of tab managers, you know
Let's see. There's one tab which you click on it and anything. It's not pinned or whatever it just puts them in a web page
So you could always go back to that web page and find find the link and and
reopen us is for Firefox
also
Tab hunter is one I use because you get so you get so many tabs open and you
It will search your open tabs by keyword. So those those are a couple tab managers. I recommend
I had a question. Does anyone have a browser that will allow you to access mobile
versions of web pages? I think you can set that up. I can do that on chrome and chromium. I think yeah, I think you can do that one
Certainly desktop browsers either would set up or use the quality as well
Well, I think chrome. I think the quality actually has like a shortcut from its main
On somewhere on the top of the bottom of the building. I mean seriously. He uses me out here about times
I could play netflix and chrome on linux it worked for that on linux before chrome did
Yeah, I think I've tried it before actually. What was it called remember the baldy no the the thing to switch
modes in chrome
Um, I think you inspect the page and then under the network tools you can change what
Layout you want your page
That was the name for it. I just can't remember what it was called where it would basically change the way that you
The way you browse down the pages like you can browse the page as
Like it was an add on I think that's what I was thinking of that was like you were saying that back in the
When we had to do a little configuring to be able to get Netflix to work with
with linux
Oh, you're talking about the the header re-writer thing the plugin it yeah, where would the change
There's live headers was like a diagnostic tool and then there's another one
Yeah, there's another one where it's specifically designed to do that
But that just changes your header that doesn't I don't know it doesn't work the same way as when you
Inspect the page and you click the little tool that toggles it says toggle the vice toolbar and it changes it to
Tablet or phone or regular
That's there's something where it would have you do it or you can change it where you can
Make the make the web page think you were like internet explorer or make it think it was like
It's far or something. Yeah, that's user
ID
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's to use agent string and those
user
Agent strings switch
Yeah, user agent switcher. That's it. Thank you
If you really want to
Goes belonging into the glorious past and
Versus the what people thought was going to be the glorious future
I have a book to recommend to you, which also seems to be in google books one moment
Tell that bbs
No, it's called exploring the internet a technical travel log by Carl Mellemode
This is a book written around
9193 about a fella who
converted some
OSI documents to a to pdf form and had them on his son serve a server supplied by son and
He explored the internet at the time you could actually
Follow where connections were being made and how the net was growing
He also talked about how
There was a tremendous fight to get TCP
IP and and you know the internet protocols that we understand
Into europe and other countries because the
Organization for international standards was
Was pushing their own seven-layer magic carpet. They were also making those same standards very expensive for the world to
Actually access and when he put them up on a server shortly after finding out that people were actually accessing the standards on the server
the people at the
Organization for international standards had him take down the server and
Unpublished the published
Data because the paper standards were an expensive flush fund for the
For the OSI people and they would have tons of them printed up and a few of them would be sold
But since it was all you and money nobody really cared
But the kind of politicking and how how people had to
Tunnel stuff through
Like x25 links and stuff to try to use the
TCP IP in Europe in a europe where
Were things were
Locked down to the OSI seven-layer model which
Produced a lot of standards, but very few implementations that could actually work with each other
So did they not allow
And the like in europe at that time?
Well a lot of the times fight on it and stuff
Required making a phone call and in some countries that was a major major problem
Uh, yeah, I wonder how europe the europe thing was for phone companies in the eighties
Those bad enough with states here must have been a worse country to country
well the the whole thing was that
Everything was was designated that the phone companies which were of course government organizations in most of Europe at the time
Locked everything down. So anyone trying to do a private network was looked at like they were stealing money from the government
The fact that the government couldn't provide the services that that private companies were or capable of doing was
Overlooked the details make hilarious reading. Yeah, like always I only wanted what something like
256 networks in the world. Well, that would just be too many numbers to keep track of
Well the only person that's supposed to have a network is you is the national phone company
So you don't need any more
Networks than you have national phone companies. Yeah, I guess that wouldn't work here since we had all private phone companies and ISPs and
Universities etc etc
well
Actually, that's what and besides TCP IP came out of DARPA and that came out of the evil
American defense industrial complex
While the OSI paper came to came out of Geneva, Switzerland and some very expensive
junketing
Talkfest as OSI like the IEEE
Actually IEEE is the I believe the American branch of the OSI
Representative agency whatever you want to call it is IEEE government owners that of
Private thing. I think it's somewhere in the hazy middle when you're dealing with international standards or
National standards that have to mesh with other international standards things get pretty muddy
We were talking earlier about some European Union stuff and the politics of of getting
networks across national boundaries and with the EU
uh
management
I should really wash my mouth out but uh
It was amazing
also
The IBM network at this time was a purely and simply bootleg
Construction of IBM system operators and system programmers
And it became a primary part of IBM's own connection with itself
Yeah, if you look on garlic dot com
I think it's garlic dot com and in Lynn Wheeler's
Stuff talked about how
IBM's VM or OS which IBM repeatedly tried to kill off was the thing that kept
Their own worldwide systems going. You must have a different garlic dot com. I'm getting South Valley internet
Maybe it's garlic dot net you want to look at
And in Lynn Wheeler
Or maybe it's garlic dot org. I don't have the proper extension for it. No, it's none of those. Those are all ISP things
50 I would just like to say thank you for putting things into the etherpad
Well, I'm not doing everything. Yeah, I do it every one every few minutes. It's like oh what we're talking about five minutes
Yeah, never mind
Still, I appreciate it. I even appreciate the fact that you named yourself from the etherpad so I can give you the credit
Well, I think that's carries over from the
easer pad for the show
For Linux logcast probably it's the same pad for the same page of the same pad right
I think I'm gonna hang in for maybe another 10 more minutes and then I'm gonna call it a night
We tell my daughter that she's not allowed to
Actually get up and out of bed and until at least like five o'clock
And if I go to bed now, that'll give me what like I don't have
She'll sleep if she gets up
It's a little past my bedtime too. I'm gonna drive
Block tomorrow. What time you start your drive for tomorrow? Um, I don't know depends on what time we can get to load it up
So probably 10 or 11 and how long was it for you?
Uh, it's a good 12 13 hours. Okay, and I won't be the only one driving. So that's good
Yeah, I am gonna set an alarm so I can jump back in here just before the end and see what's going on
But uh, yeah, I was all headed towards bed myself
Yeah, what time is the end?
So we usually like what is it? It's about 7 EST and I don't know what it is UTC
But about seven o'clock EST uh, we usually check to see if there's anybody on and then if there's anybody talking if there's
still people on and talking and
Then we just keep it going until we stop hearing people talking and we'll stop the recording
So basically officially around 7 am EST and if people are still talking then we'll just
Let it go and then you know truncate so then come back to it later and check to see if anybody's on there
If not, then we'll shut it down and then you know truncate silence will kill any of the dead air
Well, I did want to bring up one thing
I just
Found a guy that's selling a 3d printer for 125 dollars, but it's um
That m3d micro plus 3d printer
Not skip it and 3d is a little square cube
Yeah, it's tight. It's not heated bed. You have to use their
PLA filament with it usually
Because it's a special
Temperature I guess
Special size pool. It's kind of slow and it's kind of hard to deal with
We had one of those when we first started a couple years ago and
Dumped it within six months. Okay. Okay. I will give it a pass
Basically, you really want a heated bed no matter what you do anymore. It's always works better
Uh, I know a couple of my buddies got um what was it the a8?
The a8
Yeah, that's good if you want to build a kit and learn everything about 3d printing
I would recommend the mk3 Prusa i3 if you have either 500 or a thousand dollars in a pocket
That's absolutely best. What's the um the one that door got
That's the c-i-10 reality. I have a new tennis
That's still 400 bucks
The old the one he has is 350 now the new one of the same thing is
For some thing like 425 you can also get the same
Brand or manufacturer. It's the
Ender three. Yep, which a lot of people like it does the same kind of stuff. It's just a little bit smaller but cheaper
Um, that's a really good one. The thing about those is
They're easy to customize and upgrade and you know, once you get the basics down and know what you're doing
You can add stuff to it and get it working pretty good. Right. Do we know if you know if the ender has the heated bed?
That I don't know. I know of a couple of guys that have one and I I can't remember if they said it does or not
But again, that's something you can add later if you really want it, which I recommend
Yeah, it's something I should look into is like the ender because the ender is the same type of style as I think the trunk
Say where it's got the um it's got the arm as opposed to the um right
Yeah, like the arc as the like day ain't that eight has but I've heard nothing but good things about the ender
I think who was it? I know of two people who got them actually
Well, there's a lot of people that have them which means you can get a lot of help if you ask around
Right and the trunk sees not on like that um the trunk see I don't have a heated bed
But I've the anything that I've gotten to print has been pretty good
But like I said, there's still like learning curve with it, but there is a I am not a
Facebook promoter at all basically. I'm just on Facebook for to keep tracking my family
Because I got ticked off the fact that my wife knew more about what was going on my family than I did
Because you followed up on Facebook
So I joined Facebook, but there was also a tronxy group on Facebook and they are super helpful when it comes to anything
I basically I've posted stuff there in their path in the past going hey, what's going on with this and they came back with
There was like five or six people that just automatically like came in and
Responded and was willing to help out but the ender look like it was there's a pretty
It's actually not just the arm. It's it looks like the CR-10. It's just smaller
Really? Yeah, it's a full age
But I think it's it does only have one z-axis like the a-net
I think has a left and right up and down whereas the ender and the CR-10 only have one
50 have you got yours up and running yet
It's sitting there. I haven't done anything with it yet. What did you did you get the monochrome for the monoprice?
I did monoprice is the same style as the tronxy x-1
But I think yours is more of it's a lot of the stuff is in case if it's ready to print out of the box
Yeah, there's no similar or anything on it. It looks exactly like the one Joel has except it's it's backwards
Right, I was gonna say I was gonna say I think Joel got one of those very similar. All right guys
Good night. I'll see you bunch here on Friday. Yep. Happy new year. Happy new year. That's right. That's this Friday isn't it?
Yep first Friday and I
I don't know don't hold me to it
But I thought I would try to spend at least part of the day tomorrow getting
Working on some of these real-world projects. I always say I'm gonna do it never do. Okay. I think the way I'm going today
I'm good tonight. I'm probably gonna spend most of tomorrow and then out of like naps
Five minutes a year ten minutes there coffee
Easy kids. Can't be easy kids in the house. Right. Well, I may be holding the floor here for
For a while. So thank you gentlemen for everything. Well, thank you. Thank you for hanging out. Right and giving us good history information
Right. Yeah, well, I'm I'm sort of the historic reference person for a lot of stuff since since my first computing experience was on
On a Wang using a teletype the storage medium was the yellow teletype punch paper tape history and puns all part of the aspive service
I always love the racing still ones. Yeah, so I just finished dissecting that for relatively recently
So it looks like the ender three does have a
Bed maximum bed temperature of 110 C. So I must have a heated bed
So for $187 it's a partially built machine. That's pretty good
Well, it looks like I'm probably gonna be saving up for an ender three
Yes, skip the an end go straight to that because a nuts, you know, might be 140, but it does not compare
Yeah, and I've it seemed like the a nuts can be a lot of work trying to get put together and like the trunk seat was was some work
But the a nut seems like it's a little bit more. Yeah, and sometimes the a nut doesn't have all the parts for when I hear
So it seems the same way I've heard a lot of horror stories from people not having enough screws
Just like that with the trunk seat. Yeah, and when you've not done it before you don't know what you don't have and it's just really
Knocks you back a bit. Yeah, I was trying to explain that to something before that you know these these things sometimes are
More kit than they are actual just like, you know a finished product
They they give you like you're just given the fistful of screws and the fistful of this stuff that you need to base to get the thing running
And most of the time you get the right amount and you have a lot of some extra stuff
I mean, I have a bunch of extra screws
But there are other times when people get like not enough of some of the things that they need and whatnot
Yeah, it's the Chinese warehouse experience. You're gonna get what they gave you
Exactly, you know 3D printing is such a the whole the the whole fact that these this idea moved as quickly as it did
And I know a lot of that has to do with the
I'm okay, it's too late and I've had a look to much string maybe but I'm blanking on the guy's name but the the company but
Since they open sourced that's at Prusa the whole Prusa design and stuff because the way they open sourced all the stuff
That everything was able to move at the speed that it did because I remember there was a time when we were talking about 3D printers
And it was like you had to spend a thousand dollars to get something that was like
Yeah, I don't know like a box that you basically tried to put something together and know what I had an A family out there
And nowadays you can spend a hundred and fifty dollars and get yourself something that's like pretty much almost out of the box
You could just start printing stuff and there's enough stuff out there between thingiverse and whatever else that you can actually print something cool pretty quickly
Yeah, there's basically three major things that occurred pretty close together one was
super cheap stepper motors
super cheap
eight-bit microcontrollers with boards set up to control those
motors and then
the hot-end
materials when Prusa was putting his stuff together you had to wrap your own wire
To make a tube that would heat up to the right temperature to do the plastic, you know
You are making everything yourself if you look on the the wiki page for I don't know
It's probably rep wrapped out already they have a hot-end area and if you look through there
You can see all the you know old revisions of things and it looks like when they're you know making
You know capacitors inductors in the 1920s. It looks like that kind of stuff
Wow, I gotta look that stuff up
But nowadays a lot of these parts are so cheap like you're saying. I mean you can
You can buy motors and you know all the tubing and everything else
I mean I go on I went on Amazon and bought replacement parts for like half this this printer and
You know maybe like $10 of these for like different things
I bought like a whole freaking thing of the tubing and
You know, I don't
I just
The speed at which that this finally got caught up and nowadays you can do whatever with these things is just phenomenal
Yeah, there's plenty of cheap knockoff stuff on eBay and wherever I think the the best source to go is the
e3d-online.com
It's a UK company and they produce like the v6 hot-end that you bought
If you bought a knockoff, it was knocked off of their original design
And so they're they're the precision manufacturers of all that stuff and they have a lot of really really good equipment
It's not really that much more expensive
You know, you can pay $30 for the hot-end on eBay, but you're gonna pay 45 from these guys
You may as well spend the extra ten bucks to get the perfect one right
And I was surprised living in Hawaii
They don't have shipping like you know us post office. They have like international
Two-day for like 1250. So if you buy
Things that don't weigh a lot are not bulky. I can get stuff from the UK and two days cheaper than I can buy it from Amazon
Aren't you closer to China too?
Well kind of in the middle, but you know, I don't think we're a major hub for China
And I understand people who have like the 3D printer and don't know what to what to do with it
I've pretty much I've had times when I've just sat there and gone through like think of where it's going
Okay, I want to print that I want to print that I want to print that I mean even simple little things like I found a
Orb that's a storage container that prints in like three separate parts top part
You know, and they kind of all swivel and they're used for like different storage compartments
But then when you fold it all back together it's an orb like that's cool. I want to do that
Yeah, part of it too is just you know figuring out the puzzle pieces
You can go on tinker CAD and that's super basic
But you can take you know blocks and cylinders and planes and
You know tubes and stuff and and make whatever shape you want and print it
Yeah, once I get everything running up up and running again
I want to number one print out a bunch of things that I have found and in number two just
Get more into the designing aspect of things
One of the first things I ever printed that I made myself
I still use today and that it's probably two years old that it's just a clip a plastic clip for the
that
You know wire stick under the hood of your car that holds up your hood when you have your hood up
the plastic clip broke on my truck
so I
Looked at the old one and played around with them all enough and printed out a few of them
And replace it and that piece of plastic is still working today. I just don't get stick it to the hood of the car
Sticker to the hood of the car. Well the well stick to the the the plastic clip on because you're talking about the clip that the
Metal piece that goes to the
Holds the the hood of the car up when it's open, right? Yeah, so when you put the the
That metal bar down to close the hood. There's a clip that holds it from vibrating around right
I replaced that clip right now just clips into a hole in the in the front there. Oh, okay
I don't realize that it clips into a hole
I don't know if you hadn't used like a sort of a glue to get the thing on or I don't know it's let's a clip in
Manufactured thing that there's like a square hole in the metal on top of the radiator and that clip pops into that little hole
And that clip has you know a pinchy thing on the top that holds that bar
Right right right right right right now be on the inside of the car. I'm on the hood. Okay. Yeah, sorry
Some of you noticed thinking that that bar was on the hood, but it sticks into the hood
It's been a while since I pulled out of the car
Can I drop a note for those who may be upgrading laptops? Of course. This is not a commercial
They're just a company that I found to be very good. Is it pluggables? No, well pluggables is good if you're doing anything with USB
uh
Video
Charging all sorts of stuff, but this is a company called new mode us. They new mode electronics is a official name
What I purchased from them was a
eSATA P
adapter that uses the old eSATA P which is the powered eSATA
connection and
I
I used it to hook up to a cheap ssd externally on on my old laptop. I also got a
replacement for the
DVD drive that that holds an ssd adapts an ssd to your your cd dvd drive inside the laptop
So that's new mode die. I'm sorry new mode us.com is the website
Yes, now I got mine through amazon, but what I wanted to with your talk about Chinese
warehousing the the cable that I came with has two pieces one of which would adapt to the
DVD drive that I pulled out and there was a second part that would adapt that that connection to a full
for a regular laptop hard drive or ssd it was missing the second part
I contacted amazon and amazon contacted new mode and they had that part to me in a few days of
a very quick uh correction of of their error. I find a company that responds to a
quickly more impressive than someone who may do it perfectly because you know you can
trust them to back their stuff. So you bought it at amazon but it was a new mode us product
and you told amazon there was a problem and amazon told new mode and they fixed it
and they fixed it quickly they sent me yep the parts going to be in a mail it was delivered
I'm quite impressed. Yeah that's another example of getting a good product from amazon. I bought
some you know no name LED headlights through amazon and I could have gone to ebay or somewhere else
but I bought it through amazon and when they went out there's there's zero documentation
in the package you know it doesn't have very good english you know any instructions it just
kind of shows you some pictures of how to set it up and all this stuff well about six months
later one of the headlights went out and all it says in the packaging it says contact manufacturer
for replacement if broken you know and a couple things like that well there's no phone number to
the manufacturer there's no website to the manufacturer so I get on amazon I look at the reviews
and you know how to contact these people and what their information is and basically there was
nothing I could do in the listing but I told amazon that I needed to get the manufacturer to
replace this broken thing and so amazon contacted the people that listed that product and then the
people that actually listed the product contacted me through the amazon communication system however
they do it and they got me the product so yeah if you're going to buy something weird I think amazon
is helpful when something bad happens yeah well I just you know I bought two items one of them
was a little was a different package than I actually ordered but they cleared it up in day
the replacement part came to me faster than my original order yeah that's pretty good
according to new mode us there in california and it's funny because I've done these websites in the
past this is a completely unskinned basic zincart website they don't even have pretty rls all your
rls are you know main underscore page equals index you know ampersand see path blah blah blah and
whatever the id number is they didn't even bother to skin anything they just installed zincart
put their stuff in there and started selling stuff so it looks like they pay more attention to
customer service at least than they do the website which is probably good they already shoot
shooting off fireworks over there oh yes they started at 5.30 it's 10.45 all right guys I got to go
to bed good new year sorry happy new year and I'll probably see talk to some of you guys in the
morning if anybody's in the morning but if not I'll see some of you guys on Friday hey Jay
Ruel I'd hang out till it was your your new years but I'm just getting too old no worries have a good
night and happy new year everybody well I'm going back to my days as as a midnight date security guard
staying up from sundown to sun up is brings me back to well the 90s when I was doing security
all night all night that minor take care talk to you tomorrow or Friday happy new year Mrs.
Oak do you guys have a new year's drink or food that you do over year well I do commercial
legnock the more alcoholic drinks are medically inadvisable for me I finally had more than one
agnog at Christmas with my family that was nice I haven't really had agnog before not bad it was
the basic grocery store brand I look forward to it although this year you can only get it by the
court locally yeah I think it was a court hi guys Mrs. Oak here hey Mrs. Oak happy new year happy
new year I have mr. Oak here too happy new year and my friend and my friend like a Tony Montana
little friend no like my best friend from when we were in college she's still my best friend
you had one job anyway imagine I did a really really good impersonation about it you know I had one
job it was to press the space bar I'll call me after the first bottle of champagne I think we
can forgive you I don't know we haven't been here long enough for you to how about this could get
isn't your aren't you in central time zone your new year's already happened we're in
Pacific and our new year's just happened here too so yeah we're in Pacific oh okay that was
thinking Arizona for some reason desert definitely desert we're in Nevada oh that's right so
Zappos still over there Zappos the retail chain the uh shoot people that Amazon bought
I don't know if we have any open still here in this area but I know that we we ship to them all
the time with one of the customers that I wear house for I remember reading an article they were
big in Vegas or that was their headquarters for a while that might be the case Vegas is 450
miles from here so who's been on tonight who do we miss well 51 50 just left uh sub sub sub unity from
Sweden left a little while ago I think I think it was Hockey McGoo left left Joe from tilts and
other things was here earlier so yeah we missed all the fun people apart from you obviously and I
think all the tilts people were supposed to be on earlier in the day but I just got on a couple
hours ago yeah we've got a house we had a house full that we just finally sent the old folks home
and took the small folks into bed so we finally get to be you know middle adults so have your fireworks
subsided well they're illegal in this state and was there the actual like pyrotechnic shows that
are put on so yeah they have but that didn't mean that they didn't happen oh yeah there's a bunch
and the cops will go in front figure out who they are yeah my my son's friend lose around the corner
in every year I have to Facebook come and threaten him with police action yeah well at least so
all kinds of stuff at Walmart and Costco over here so but they they just don't have the roadside
sign or the roadside stands like in Texas the only place you can get them and Nevada legally
is at the Indian reservation and then you can't take them off the reservation which of course
stuff people how yeah it doesn't we were just discussing that when we started to talk button yeah it
doesn't stop anybody that's why I always have to threaten the neighbor with police action that's
where he's giving him well look at look at this here I just moved into a new house and it just
rained for about 30 minutes and then you know far worse we're going off all the time but now they're
accumulating more and more I told my family that this year I'll be sitting at home spring
down the house hoping it doesn't catch on fire we probably would get like eight inches of
precipitation in the whole year luckily it is typically this time of year that we get it
so if you guys been doing any Linuxy stuff this year um we we've been talking about going back to
doing some podcasting I know so extend some hpr episodes but I haven't been able to do anything much
with it this year um I'm not usually I've been working a lot of hours I spend too much time away
from home and doing things that aren't my designated hobbies I think we both miss hanging out with
our old crew online though we used to have a lot of fun on you know whatever night it was five
years that a day yeah you guys used to be on the odd cast shows and different things with Clotto
and those guys right we used to mostly be on Linux crank so those sometimes I think we went on
something kind of techy once in a while and a few others probably here they're good or miss
well I can extend an invitation to Linux logcast as the remaining representative of that group
yeah you're gonna have a Friday show right what time does that start on what time zone
nine o'clock eastern uh the number details are on our website and nine o'clock is a very nominal time
sometimes people are there eight thirty and sometimes the start time drag yeah um that would be
six p.m. our time which means we've probably just be getting off work and that would be not me
I haven't been at work home from work before eight p.m. any night in the last two weeks and I
just don't know when that's gonna let up um but so it might be able to pull it off it depends on
how cooperative the five year old is well we sometimes run to midnight Houston well then I guess
that we just have to hop on light maybe yes and uh we are on the first Friday first and third
Fridays of the month so you get two chances a month to hear our brilliance or our fertile
exposition anyway I'll have Zook put it on the calendar because I think we should probably try
to start getting back out there again I think that the longer we put it off the I think the sooner
we get ourselves back doing any one thing the sooner we'll get back into the swing of it well
we're extremely open format so um it's not where you know we're part of the old dev random and what
not the kernel panic Mrs. Zook do you guys do any kind of particular New Year's food or drinks
at the near uh drink anything alcoholic food anything that could be eating the fingers and dipped
did you guys just hear what I said and if I've managed break it I heard you
oh you did it's a nasty knack of accidentally breaking things what about you what's your poison
well definitely I'm paying it midnight but um I've been having a mochi fried mochi and some
conoco and sugar which is pretty good it's like a rice cake what is the oh rice cake it's a
what's kind of a hard rice cake like hockey puck or something but you fry it and because it's a
solid kind of hard rice thing it kind of melts in the pan and it becomes really bubbly and expands
a little bit and then you can you flip it over a couple times in the pan with some oil and so it's
got like a crunchy outside in a chewy center and this conoco stuff is a very finely powdered soybean
and you mix that with half and half sugar and um it's a good little snack sounds interesting
it's supposed to be like a good luck food the Japanese tradition I was going to see it sounds
far more appetizing than my mother's idea of a good luck food which is a black eyed piece yeah
you're you're also supposed to have a tangerine and I think uh clam soup of some kind but I don't
like clams so I don't do that I only do clams and they're deep fried and breaded
a lady after my mother's soul god rest her well my dad's southern and he always told me that
everything tastes better if it's deep fried and smothered in cheese I'm trying to think of what in
the south is deep fried and smothered in cheese doesn't have to be both but you can do both
oh I see melted cheese on anything or fried yeah I'll definitely agree with the fried my uncle made
us some chicken fried steak with tops are going over the holiday which was nice I made a beef
Wellington was that last week yeah Christmas day yes Christmas day if I so yeah well I probably
should have remembered it with Christ how many pounds was that maybe it was the day it was going to
be Christmas day after the Christmas day we have this son who's almost 20 and he likes to cook
but he's got this horrible habit of saying okay I want to make this so here's the shopping list
and then we go spend $300 of the grocery store and then we get all this stuff home and he says oh
I got to go and we ended up having to cook it ourselves but yes I made beef Wellington
which was a five pound beef tenderloin and obviously prosciutto and the
buckwheels whatever they have the mushrooms and all that fun stuff mixed I followed the Gordon Ramsey
version sort of here the Christmas version but I didn't find any roasted chestnuts to put in there
unfortunately I stumbled upon must have been a five or maybe 10 year old YouTube video of Gordon
Ramsey because I was watching the America's test kitchen or something on YouTube and the next
video was Gordon Ramsey's holiday whatever and he made like 10 different things and they all look
awesome that guy knows how to do stuff it's it's kind of weird because he's a footballed original
soccer player I was going to say he could teach an entire class on the proper use of the effort
yeah well it's that that's his personality I mean if you see him interacting with the kids there
was one episode where um it was I know some kids saying kid kid master chef class something
and there was a girl and she was like 12 or something she's crying because the souffle he didn't
rise or something and he sat down he said there's no crying in the kitchen I've got two daughters
man yeah whichever one is like your age and he did this like silly little thing and made her smile
and cheered her up and yeah I just think it's basically it's just he it's the whole thing like
it's a show something cow that holds I'm gonna I'm gonna be very rude to people just because it's
yeah it gets people to watch basically that's what we should start calling my son
what he's being what he is some prince what Gordon Ramsay when he's being a trickster called
assignments his Simon English or Australian English he's British he's definitely British
just don't call Gordon Ramsay English I used to love his kitchen nightmare series
yeah whatever this happened to you that um I can't even remember what that one that was
horrible way basically walked away from it they ignored everything he said they didn't cook
anything it was so that the stuff they cooked was horrible the only thing he liked is the thing
they didn't cook and they lied to him and they were just it was terrible it was like the wife
wanted to do it so the rich husband said they're about I'll buy you a restaurant and she had no
idea how to cook I do remember one where they went back and I think it was the one where the
arrogant chef guy you know it was like a 22 25 year old guy parents basically workers are
placed to get him a restaurant and he wouldn't taste his cooking and Gordon Ramsay was just like
why in the world would you serve anybody food that you have not tasted and then they went back
after and they found out he went back to his old way of doing things you know months later
after going through all this stuff the problem is a lot of people seem to do that a lot of the
reality TV shows a it's all sort of big up for TV a little anyway and but the from what I heard
is that most of these shows the people go back to their old ways and basically fail the the
biggest loser show was it well yeah the people lose yeah 400 pounds or whatever look in
in well a year or like two weeks but yeah in over the year and they get surgery to do that and all
that stuff but I can't remember the numbers it's some of like of the 15 people that were on the
show 13 of them had put all the way back on and six of them had gained more weight afterwards it's
a really weird they'll do it for the TV show and then people generally go back into their old habits
so on the biggest loser did they actually his part of their win package some kind of surgery
like lap band or something that's like a like a gastric thing that helps them not eat so much
that might have been the best way for them to do but I think most of them just ended up using
the surgery as cosmetic yeah to take off the extra skin that doesn't go away when you lose fat
lost weight and they had flab and they got surgery for flab not eating yeah mine's standing
I mean again you see what the TV show wants you to see and one of my jobs was actually still
IT but worked at I'm trying to not give specifics away but it was not home shopping network but
think home shopping network that kind of thing and the like the studio's teeny it's just small
enough to be to you see basically everything but you have there's there's narrow at the back
and the hosts walk out from this area in the back and it's just large enough the host of hide
out of camera shop and then step in and be like hey welcome there's nothing back there there's like
wall there's warehouse there was nothing else behind there was nowhere to go but you make it look
like you can step out and walk out let's it was really weird to see how you know they control
everything so you see exactly this the camera angle is specifically here because if you move it
three inches to the left then you've got something you don't want to see and it was very weird
so I'm sure a lot of these reality TV shows are very strict on sort of what they show you
but supposedly it's all yeah they had the camera the personal trainer guy but they had him on
cool to Chris something or other yeah um to talk to people and teach them how to eat better
and work out no that they stayed on the program they could they could continue what the way
they were doing but just like most people you know you're doing great you're doing great you're
doing great and you're like oh oh this weekend I can do whatever I've been doing so good I should
just reward myself when you have a food addiction it's the same as being an alcoholic you can't
get off that wagon at all or I mean it's stupidly simple you eat less calories than you burn
and then you lose weight it's that it's one simple formula that's how it's calories in calories out
eat less than you burn and then you lose weight eat more you gain weight listen to us like we're
some kind of help for no no that's real simple it's just really difficult to do in practice and
has someone who needs to get back on the the wagon of eating coffee and losing weight again um well
today um and yeah i'm completely hypocritical you but it's a beautiful thing over there
sorry what's that mr. beef Wellington over there
yeah exactly i mean Wellington was to like us by the way you know just i'd like too short you should
enjoy it a little but absolutely you can't cross that line between enjoying abuse and i think
that's where a lot of us end up because food does become an addiction i'm addicted to tacos
so we we have the friend was waiting for me to let go of the bus
sitting here hoping we'd stop talking you'll like go that the buttons do she get open for beer
that's podcasting gold you know pop the top poured in the glass you can hear the gliggle gliggle gliggle
gliggle gliggle gliggle gliggle gliggle gliggle
wait we've outwasted glasses around here it came in the appropriate good dispenser
it's already in the container what do you put another one for cheers I'm glad
it's nice and wet outside there's all kinds of cool stuff going on wet what
is this water thing you talk about it's the stuff that falls from the sky
every once in a while it's the stuff that fell from the sky every day for me
growing up and that's why I moved to a desert yeah one extreme to the other we
get all excited when it rains or snow it's because we so rarely see it we've
like 360 days of sun in this state so we get excited when the rain comes
or the snow comes every time I'm all cheering for it and he's over there in the
corner pouting well bunch of people like it rains a doomy singland and like
there's a reason I moved to a desert okay there's bits of England I totally
miss this really cool architecture yeah this yeah this building that was 400
years old that was not particularly special because all the other buildings on
that road are also 400 years old my grandmother used to live in a farmhouse at
400 years old had a patch of roof nothing special about it wasn't a listed
building because all of them were like that but the weather is definitely
something I do not miss from England well you can always visit yeah there is
that or I can just or I can just go to Washington yeah if I want snow I drive or
maybe 45 minutes to the top of the mountain and I can enjoy the snow and then
get back in my car and go back to 80 degrees that's what's nice about here
where we're at in northern Nevada if it snows it does stick around till April
and and usually it snows in the mountains and we just get rain in the valley
and it's really really pretty and you have to build up the stupid drivers I
totally don't mind the snow at all it's just sharing the row of people who don't
know how to cope with it that bothers me and I I really kind of just prefer it
when I'm on my couch at home with a book in front of the fireplace I get make
you another drink and then no one sticks no one's talking what did you say what
did you say about the weather I guess we scared everybody off I guess the
real show is going to start in about 40 minutes there's quite a few big
bangs going off already okay what's happening in 40 minutes because
Alaska was 20 minutes ago and I'm losing track of which islands are
next then why is that 40 minutes for the big island
yep is that where you're at yeah I'm in corner I hate you
you would hate the humidity no why it's fine you just stay in the water all the time
it's a little too many today but it's been cool what do you define as a little
few minutes what's your definition of cool well it's probably like 75 now it is 23 degrees
on my front porch well nice I'm back I just had to take advantage of a few of
a moment's right to grab some lunch and some stuff from the local convenience store across
the street welcome back I'm being haunted by my house mate a tuxedo cat who wants
her share of lunch our cat constantly thinks she's starving it is it'd be funny if it wasn't
so aggravating well I must admit that I've encouraged her we usually split the sandwich a
little bit I pull off a chunk of the ham so she's now got entitlement issues if we're still
talking about cats they all have entitlement issues that's because they remember the Egyptians
wishes them as ghosts yes and the guy who wrote the cat came back was a pessimist doesn't
mean cat an Egyptian and this is a tuxedo cat female and the guy who drew sovester knew what
he was talking about we've got not orange tabby who is a sleep not too far from us at the moment
she's always asleep well she's a cat I don't know by definition you know she just looks like she's
asleep and this cat keeps me under proper feline supervision have you seen the subreddit cats are liquid
you know they're just lying really weird ways and it just peaches them like lying
like they have no bones yeah basically I spilled something on the floor they cut laid out
well this one there is well I'm a restless sleeper but when I'm awake the cat believes
my hands calling is to pat her yes that was good the rest of it to mine we also have a
French door which this cat learned very early to open by herself the French door yeah it probably
has those lever handles instead of the turn oh right okay we had a cat that could have done that
if we didn't have a turn in arms but that done my sense now I was confused we had a cat that
in the hole sorry I just we had a cat that used to light some in the hallway because she wanted
us to open the bedroom door and let her in at night so she's to sit out their own night
and meow for five minutes and then she jump up and turn right on jump up and turn right off and
she do that for two or three minutes and then she go back to meowing it was the constant chorus
all night long well this cat has learned how to either push the door open or hook its claws
into the edge of the door and pull it open the door the entire edge of the door has a whole
series of little pin bricks so there's a story behind this cat we have we didn't really want the cat
we have a five-year-old she just turned five and she's a bit of a brute still and we just
weren't ready for a cat but our son who just tonight today turned 20 he brought this cat home
and decided we had we're having a cat okay now that was pretty upset at first but the cats
really cute she's really really cute but then we found out that this cat is going to spend
her entire life trying to eat anything and everything that anybody leaves out she
bread yeah she figured out how to open the bread box so she could eat the bread
she chewed through tinfoil to get to a cake she did too well to get to a cake and then she
proceeds to get sick on the carpet it's been a battle our bread now lives in the microwave
and everything else lives in the fridge of the freezer sometimes we can find a place to put
something in the pantry but we have to put anything and everything that she could possibly chew
through into a place that she can't chew through because if we don't she will eat it
a friend of mine had a cat that they originally give canned food to and then some dry kibble to
tighter over then the vet said oh no no don't give the dry food well the cat got up on the kitchen
counter and tore into look in the cabinets and tore into anything that looked like a cat
food bag beans what a have you now she spills them on the counter but the cat had been taught
that it wasn't supposed to eat anything on the counter so it would knock the stuff onto the floor
or it could eat it this cat also learned that at a certain turning one way was to the vet
in bad times and one way was to petco and fawn so it reacted accordingly instead of they
started driving around the corner past petco well it was a fork in the road and there were two
different directions but the petco when the cat went to petco it had fawn and it was very happy
when it was headed toward the vet and it knew that it was headed toward the vet it was kind of
upset you know also it was a feral kitten so they said well you know it could be standoffish or
whatnot from my friend friend she reported that it was the most snuggle post that you could find
you guys have those plastic bags that you get to grocery store not the paper bag but like the
the crunchy plastic bag yeah we have different varieties of those yes we had this cat
that would look at you from around the corner of the kitchen cabinet and if there was a bag on the
floor it would step on the bag and make noise with the bag and looking at you to try to get you to
go into the kitchen to give her some food or him some food there was a funniest thing if there
was a bag somewhere and the cat wanted her attention he'd go stand by the bag and just look at you
and step on this bag and make the you know the crunchy bag noise so you looked at it and did
something I discovered the most brilliant thing in the entire world last night or night before my
five-year-old with a long string with a inflated balloon tied to the end her and the cat man
around the house for an hour and a half with this dumb balloon and they were both so tired when
they were done they left me alone well one of my cats got mugged by a catnip mouse I can't
cure your teeth had did I hear you right well the catnip mouse was on an elastic string as they
tended to be and the cat was chasing it and the string got wrapped around the hind leg so the cat
was convinced that it was being attacked by a catnip mouse that is so funny also that was one of our
last outdoor cats at the end of my driveway we lived near a stream in Canada goose landed this
little gray cat looked at the goose and started doing its best neutral of Omaha I'm a lioness
imitation the good news is that in a true f-true moment neither neither the cat nor the goose
got into trouble with the with the other do you know what's really sad about that story is
I'm old enough that I can hear theme music to mutual of Omaha in my head right now I can see
my land perkins in a pond or a lake or something yes well yes but the also this gray cat once
crawled under the blanket on my mother's bed and decided to wash up including lifting one
hind leg up in the air which of course lifted the blanket up but the cat didn't care it was going
to wash up regardless of whether it was under a blanket or not we also had a 50 pound
westy westy interior spits cross it was a large family size westy and when the cat wanted to
sleep in the dog's bed the cat the dog moved when the cat wanted to sleep under my mother's bed if
the dog was there it moved the cat bossed around the dog the way you know five times what it did
my cat just opened that French door into our hallway because it wants to go upstairs and look
around or whatever since it's not going to get anywhere ham tonight she's done it's time to patrol
amazing we just disconnected on this and we're finally back I don't know what caused that it was
really weird well this cat is is not spoiled in our front window I've put a drop leaf on the
window sill to widen the sill and in the summertime that sometimes has a fan on it in our dining room
there's a large low radiator which the cat will sleep on that's also another window we don't have
it air conditioning in the house so I put fans in that window so the cat has that sometimes and
yes it wills with sleep on a hot water radiator we have a gas stove which has the pilot light in
the middle under a griddle and the cat would stretch out on that and sleep what's the normal
temperature of a cat right there hotter yeah 104 degrees body temperature now she's looking
through the French door is it same won't you open this thing I would never let any of my cats
be out there cats I'm always like petrified they're going to get hit by a car well around here
the chief hazard is the coyotes yeah I was going to say we get enough of those out where we
live too I wouldn't want them to get eaten by those either but typically if you bring your pets
in at night that's not a problem this is our first truly house cat because a friend of mine
well it a neighbor on the other side of the block reported that it had a orange tiger and
they found that that had been eaten or half eaten by a coyote I can't remember when it starts but
my son's going to go on a coyote hunt here and I think it's a few weeks but I'm not positive
I can't remember exact dates but he's going to go on a coyote coyote hunt this year they have
like a free coyote hunting day in this area once a year I don't know how long it lasts a couple days
but I don't know how I feel about it but at the same time yeah well I remember that there's a certain
little patch of woods and where the bus turns around there is a sort of a loop around this
little patch of woods with a dentist office on it and in the parking area I saw two or three
coyotes nine o'clock one Monday morning yeah they're pretty common here too much in the city but out
in the outskirts where we live you see them you hear them more than you see them but
and you're eating lunch in your car at work they might come up and I don't know I've had one
do that once which was one time too many to be honest well we're sort of out in the suburbs there's
patches of woods and stuff around here there isn't enough to keep a reasonable small game population
one didn't of course there's the territories and cats which coyotes are not not picky eaters
that's the truth when building density is high enough around here that hunting is not an option
yeah in Nevada if you go five miles outside of any city limits you're probably going to be in
pretty much the middle of nowhere so no one cares yeah my brother's a long old trucker and he
tells me about going out west and saying what's out there he said nothing in large quantity
that's kinder than what most of us say we always go we always say things like go that way a little
bit there's a whole lot of nothing well I'm calling him on his cell phone and Verizon used to have
a commercial where they had a guy who was saying can you hear me now I was telling my brother that
you should sign up with AT&T because he can tell them all the places they don't have coverage
well here the only two carriers that are even worth having at all really are I mean I was
about the whole west coast I'm just talking about my section of Nevada are really AT&T and Verizon
I think Verizon still beats AT&T most of the time we do have several other carriers you can get
but you have a lot more no signal zones with those yeah well my brother also
uses the internet over his cell phone so you know that's his lifeline and he he bounces from
Washington to California and he can be up to Chicago and down to Atlanta it's a life I'm not sure
I could live that's for sure um I have a hard enough time when I have to work long hours
not being able to come home when I want to come home but you know I could I have lots I know lots
of people who who work long haul and he's a love that you hated I guess well he's been married
several times then he probably loves it right well he's uh he's making do he's he's looking
forward you're retiring to the Philippines they have lots of snakes there I'm not so sure
that would appeal to me as I understand it they also have special taxes for non-resident alien
or for resident aliens but he believes it's going to be a tropical paradise and since he's going to
be on the island which where the city of vanilla is he doesn't believe that he's going to run into
any problems with the Muslim extremists putting out that the reason the army went to 45 was because
of Philippine Muslim extremists that didn't seem to make an impression also if he found
moving to a country where the returning native workers have to shrink their baggage so that
customs people do not solve it with ammunition and then charge them for importing ammunition
to be a perfectly reasonable and civilized area that's interesting um I work in the freight
industry and there's tons of LTL carriers that could teach those custom agents how to rewrap that
baggage without a problem well I find it to be a news if if you have to defend yourself against
your own customs people I don't find that to be a positive outcome I completely agree with you
that is a total reason to promptly move right well also the fact that as far as I he um he believes that
his pension or what have you will go far over there but he doesn't realize that there's no
Medicare and there's no all the medication is cash in all the hospitals are cash and carry
basically um and as a resident alien they they have special they don't have the kind of
they don't know I'm I have heard that he won't be able to work or anything because they don't
want to take jobs away from the natives you know the usual protectionist stuff but they're
perfectly willing to tax it uh especially the usual protectionist stuff but they're perfect
willing to tax it uh especially oh of course they are I mean that's just how governments work
I mean that's kind of I don't know it's probably not right it's not fair but it is and you're not
going to find any place it's any different I'm sure the US has similar or or or even worse
rules and some respects but what I'd be concerned about is even if you have to deal with healthcare
and a foreign nation uh you know I just I don't hang off the faith I would need to attend
a doctor in another nation I'm just I don't know I mean maybe if I was like in England or
something and that might be different because I know people who have used that system
but I am just I don't like doctors to begin with and I would be absolutely petrified to have to
go to one in a nation it didn't even speak English because how could you even advocate for yourself
if you don't know the language? Well also he says well if he had if he brings a certain amount
of money they don't tax him but if you ever have to tax tap that bankroll for anything like
medical care then they turn on the taxes again and that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either
it doesn't I mean the more money you have the more people want to tax you usually correct
why would they suddenly decide not to tax you when you had a certain amount of money? I don't know
I don't understand because it gets people over there they put it in the bank
and then something causes them to go under the magic number and then they're taxable
it's like some of these assisted living um arrangements that they have in the US here
where you can move in if you have certain amount of assets and then they keep the meter running
into your assets are drain sufficiently and then you're out on whatever nursing home you can
afford on on the public dole yeah I think every country has strange stuff like that in their systems
I don't think anyone in particular has an op way on any of it I think you just got to be
like dealing with the side which ones you can live with and which ones you can't
well I um I can't really point out these too much because um it's uh he just doesn't get through
well when people make up their mind they make up their mind and you usually can't change it
I mean especially when they're growing adults you notice that kids are a lot more open to logical
reasoning than those adults you know are well I'm calling for the Boston area uh logical reasoning
seems to be uh an option around here not not a standard feature yeah I think that seems to be at
least a concept that 50% of this country doesn't grasp right well that's one reason why we have the
current president and the democrats really missed the boat on that one you know they've been
pushing class warfare and whatnot and then what about identity politics and identity politics only
works if you don't know what your identity is sadly well most of us know exactly who we are
well the problem you had is that you had the the class people who knew what was good for us
then you had the rest of us with no class who decided to say to heck with you
I completely agree we were tired of the status quo it wasn't getting us where we needed to be
I don't think I am not a supporter of our current president in the classic sense of the word
but I don't think that we had any good options during the last election so you know when you
pick the lesser the two evils right that's all we've ever done for decades and uh whatever
politics is what it is and I don't think they're welcome I used to be a republican but but the
second president Bush and our current incumbent made me an independent so interestingly enough
I'm an american citizen now obviously wasn't originally um the last president presidential election
would see first one I got voted and oh boy what a wonderful choice that was and I mean that in
the most sarcastic way or bigger ship pile yeah well interestingly I can recommend to you a book
called The Less Centurion I believe John Ringwell was the author and it posits what a Clinton
administration would have been like uh way to the dystopia they talk about also global warming
turning into global cooling and some other issues uh like the porousness of our our borders when
it comes to containerized right so it's quite possible for uh someone with a epidemic illness to
be shipped from China to the US and our customs is just not built to handle that it's built to
fight in drugs but not people well it's hard to fight a war if you aren't allowed to fight
that applies to so many things of life but if you take away all of the tools to win
you only set it up for failure right which describes the Vietnam experience fairly succinctly
it describes everywhere we've been involved in since World War II it describes everything
we've tried to do on the border it describes the war on drugs I mean it describes just about
everything it's because well in part this is going to sound so so 1945 of me
and in essence but it's the purification of America everybody is afraid to hurt somebody's
feelings well do you remember when the US used to back the right to privacy I remember when the
US believed there was a right to privacy now everybody in this country is like don't expect it
it's not there well do you realize the Patriot Act made basically the Bill of Rights
purely optional they haven't made that purely optional yet although I have seen those who
would like to see it become purely optional or only apply to the parts of speech and life that
they wanted to but well well when you remember that somebody shut down a secure email system
because the government wanted keys to the system and this guy I forget his name but he wasn't allowed
to tell his lawyer what he was charged with because it was a national security issue yeah they have
those those super secret cool things that they can't you're not allowed to tell anyone about which
is just yes horrible yeah I mean that's why companies some companies have warrant canaries
because they can give you they can slack with a warrant that says you're not allowed to tell
but they'll go to Google and say we want information about net minor and you cannot tell him
you cannot tell anyone you're not allowed to discuss it or we will slap you with a felony
and arrest you and your family and you know shoot your kids and okay not quite but it's the how
this whole thing about you cannot tell anyone about it so some companies have warrant canaries
as a case as we have not received any warrants requesting requesting information about people
I just can't frustrated with the with the whole us versus them crap aren't we all on the same god
do you have team yeah well yes but you see to protect you you see you can have a lock on your front
door but in order to protect you you have to give the government a key to your back door
reminds me of the Soviet apartment blocks that had special elevators for the KGB yeah and I know
the UK wants a serious happy anniversary oh happy new year yes happy new year Hawaii
Mahalo and Mahalo yeah I barely speak English yeah depending on how many beers I've had
I've seen Lilo and Sturge does that count I've really passed Hawaii once I've been to Hawaii
I've not I've passed it that's the closest I was not old enough to appreciate it and
a luall scared me because the pigs still had its head attached the pigs had what the head was
still attached to the pig when they bowed into the ground I had nightmares for a month about this
flaming pig that was chasing me I was eight this is the psychiatrist house yeah usually they pull
it out and they put on a big rack and they're trying to get on the rack sometimes it comes apart and
you get you know legs this way in that way all I saw was the pig in the ground on the leaves and the
coals fully intact and I never wanted to see anything more about it and so I completely
entirely avoided any visual of that area of the luall will be smiling as you chase you
I don't know I couldn't see past the flames I was eight and I was severely sunburned
so I don't know if it was bad it was bad what I found impressive about the Hawaiians was that they
were and still are those that practice this the Nick what you would what the Canadians would go
first nations people according to something that I saw on youtube they had this sort of greeting
ceremony where the warriors would greet people and there would be sort of a force you know they
would be in your face but they would move forward and according to one of the guys a military
guy who who went through the process or who was greeted this way when they came up you could feel
sort of a shy energy radiating from these people so they they basically said you know if you're
nice people will be nice to you and if you're not nice people well we're perfectly willing to
get busy quite impressive yeah I think the Māori people in New Zealand are like that
there's still quite a bit of attitude among the younger people well this is a refreshingly
honest way of greeting foreigners I mean they're not hostile from the start they're just prepared
yeah it's probably good to show that you're not passive from the beginning well also I saw they have
a habit of sort of sledding down some of those slope steep slopes that I found quite impressive
since it was sort of like to bargaining without snow that I haven't seen there's there's not any
soft lava over here well I guess it was on a different island but yeah I mean these are
you know they have a lot of ways they call flumes that go from the top of the mountain
and they kind of meander through the hills down the lower areas and that's how they do irrigation
in the mountain areas and they run these flumes and they're just basically not like a kayak
but like that log ride at six flags you know you you ride in the log down the watershed kind of like
that but do these ditches and that can be fast at sometimes different points in the the thing it's
like a closed circuit whitewater rafting aren't familiar with some of the similar while they
were usually wooden but they were similar flumes that were used for transporting logs in the
the northwest and I can imagine riding them would be rather exciting also some of these pollinations
would give the average football player pause yeah there's definitely some tough guys out there
well I'm just saying uh pigmeas they aren't you know very strong very well built so there's
like all these people in this room and where the only three talking I think they're not really there
some of them are recording it's just like when you go into the the uh augcast planet channel
you know there's like everybody in god is in there but no one is saying anything
yeah except they're not lurking there their user is just recording it so that they can always
have a backup recording nothing because nothing is being said no what we're what's being said by us
is being recorded by everyone with a red dot although I did mention earlier that it reminded me of my
youth the days of the silent majority what do you mean nothing the internet loves cats me out my cat
has not yet learned how to use the keyboard or mouse you know I'd be more interested in training
mind how to use the toilet first when I get to stop scooping a kitty litter pan I will have it made
yes well my housemaid is sitting at my feet looking at me with great sad eyes as I'm nibbling on my
ham sandwich by the way just for your information my brother found a site called chewy dot com which
has a good uh price and good shipping on on catkibble something like twelve or thirteen dollars for
sixteen pounds of frisky's uh seafood temptations that's an appropriately named website
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