Episode: 3874
Title: HPR3874: 2022-2023 New Years Show Episode 9
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3874/hpr3874.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 07:11:34

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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3874 for Thursday the 8th of June 2023.
Today's show is entitled, 2022-2023 New Years Show Episode 9.
It is part of the series HP Our New Year Show.
It is hosted by HP Our Volunteers and is about 123 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is 2022-2023 New Years Show where people come together and chat.
Yeah, I had a Pentium-1 machine that I built to run Dawson.
I initially wrote it, built it up to be a MSDOS sort of server.
Because with free Dawson, you can do some basic Ethernet networking.
Now, because of energy concerns, I'm going to be setting that machine aside
and eventually I will probably replace that with emulation under Linux
or on a Raspberry Pi or something.
Back then, I mean, a lot of stuff was like, I remember working on like,
token ring networks and a lot of the stuff was like, just coax networking.
Yeah, and some of it was regular coax, and some of it was a big fat coax
that was a real barrier to connective.
I mean, some of it was BNC connectors, which was maybe slightly harder to use
than your cable, TV cable.
Right. It had one that was also, it was almost like a garden hose,
and then they had tap units that would pierce through the shielding
and pick up signals from the signal conductor in the middle of the cable.
And it would be connected to your computer through a, well, there was an empire
of it that punched through your cable.
And then there would be a ribbon cable that would go back to your interface car.
Right. And all the network cards wanted to be, uh, no veil compatible,
and not for no bells no longer around.
Well, what's interesting is that there is, uh,
they're resurrecting a lot of the old network.
Um, there are, uh, networks which are designed either for hardware or
emulated access, uh, for things like, uh, IBM's Bitnet,
which if you were doing token ring stuff, you probably were aware of.
Right. Right. And there's a deck net out there on the internet as well.
Right. But now the original networking protocols, both for digital equipment
cooperation and for the original OSI model, uh,
had very, very few networks in them.
So actually getting a large population of computers to talk to each other
was a good trick with a lot of magic hand waving going on in the background.
Yeah. I remember three calm was a big name way back in the day.
Yeah, three calm was like real tech or what have you or, or damn, I can picture it,
but, but my brain is fading, uh, like TP link is today, you know.
Right. Right. Yeah. Super nuts.
Now, a lot of it was more, I think you'll TP link selling stuff at Cisco
prices. Exactly. Also, one of the most interesting things is that
IBM internal network was not built, uh, by the IBM suits.
It was built by systems people so that they could get software updates and
email and documentation and stuff between IBM systems,
IBM, IBM system, uh, and it was all pretty bootleg because the primary
IBM had, uh, what they called VM, which was one of it had two features.
Each VM user would have an environment, including what they call the mini disk,
which was what we would call a partition, and he would have
something that behaved much like a single user computer.
The terminals talk to and it transmitted data and it stored data and it did
everything like that. And it ran applications, submitted jobs, whatever.
And as far as the user was concerned, it was his little life of heaven.
Right. Right. Also, it originally started out as a, uh, something that could
be run on the first virtual memory, uh, IBM 360 machines, the IBM 360 67.
But eventually when it went to 370 modes, this environment was translated so
that it couldn't run on a bare 360 or 370. It had to be run under, under a bare
metal hypervisor that they called VM. And one of the things about VM,
which IBM hated because it wasn't a batch operating system.
It wasn't their monster and thus monster moneymaker that would do punch cards and
mag tape and a lot of stuff like that. This one was very interactive because of
its eventually used, uh, multiple user sessions that behaved like, like everybody got,
got their computer, got their own slice of the computer instead of having a bunch of cards
and then having to hand them off to somebody to eventually load it in the main
frame and then you have to wait for, for the, uh, where your answers are your problem.
Right.
Or bugs or what have you. But because IBM really was pushing this batch operating system,
which started out as, uh, multi, but it was a multi tasking operating system with first
a fixed number of tasks, variable number of tasks. And it was a monster, uh, just like the original
360 operating systems, OS 360, which was cobbled together and just over time developed more
cropped and more cropped and more cropped. And in fact, one of the uses of this VM system
that the IBM brass, that the IBM brass were used to having all their,
their machines like the prior to 360 generation, everything would be on punch cards, paper tape,
or if you were a good boy, it may be actually on mylar mag tape.
This was not a big deal, uh, early on in the development of things, but as Fred Brooks,
God rest his soul said, IBM started falling behind and then they started throwing more programmers
at OS 360 and these, and these MBS stuff. And the MBS, which was their flagship, had so many
memory leaks in it that they would, would run, run that on VM because VM could fake a large
address space and their favorite operating system running under VM ran more efficiently than
as a VM, uh, MBS or whatever it was was running on the bare metal. And, and this, this operating system
was, was interactive and it was much loved by computer science departments and stuff like that.
But the IBM suits hated it because it meant users could sit down on their terminals and do
typical, you know, go through databases or whatnot without having to wait for a stack of print,
print, print out six inches high or a stack of cards or what have you.
And those, those were the crazy days when everything was printed on like, um, on wide carriage
green bar paper. Right. And, but the interesting thing is that they're powerful,
all singing, all dancing operating system, which sucked at interactive functions could not be used
as the routing nodes for their own internal network. VM was much lighter weight, could be used
as a routing node. And every so often, a new, uh, a new class of IBM brass would come in and say,
we got to get rid of this VM stuff in our own networks. We have to move everything to MBS or whatever
they're, their big bloated operating system. And they would launch a project and they would find
out that their MBS very inefficient for this application couldn't do what, what the rather
streamlined VM system could do. And the project would be quietly held until the next crop of,
I'm going to fix everything management. It was just, it was insane. Also this internal IBM
network, which they called because it's there or because it's time network goodness was larger
than the internet until relatively late in its life. And also in the 90s, a lot of official
regulations required using the heavily theoretical OSI protocol X 25 and X 29 and a whole bunch
of other things, which didn't have a large address space and weren't very efficient and assumed
that you would get your network from the phone company for your nation and a whole bunch of
other things were quite crippling. A lot of the people who knew what they were doing would want
to use the American TCP IP stack, but their, but their bureaucratic structure wouldn't allow
them to do that. So what they would end up doing is they would use TCP IP, but they would
bury it in whatever protocols was was the official government protocol. Okay. All right.
This wasn't very efficient and because of the billing structure, which made your cell phone
data plan look generous, it was quite inefficient. But when the government says you're going to
run your data through only this type of pipe, you run your data through that type of pipe,
and you encapsulate the what the protocols you actually want. Right. Right. Because the OSI did not
like using American standards coming out of America because they were coming from our
military end. They didn't want to surrender their power to it. Also the OSI, which did do some
interesting stuff that made certain that telephones could talk to each other and you know,
stuff like that. And you could plug in stuff at different places, you know, cables were standardized
and whatnot. But they were heavily bureaucratic organizations and a lot of conferences and whatnot
were held about this theoretical networking, how to get the seven layer OSI model implement.
And a lot of people would lie to a lot of interesting destinations and interesting times of
the year on the government dime or your company's dime or whatever, you know, somebody would be paying
for it. And they would have issues for both theoretical implementations and explanations of the
OSI protocol. The one thing that they wouldn't have would be actually anybody really implementing
the protocol. There are always impermanent data. Now the TCP IP and whatnot were far more efficient
because somebody had actually written the standards, passed them around, had them criticized,
and then they had to talk to each other. So they actually worked. But because of the politics,
you had the politicians and OSI using a lot of money and a lot of paper while the people in
America were and using American standards were actually building the internet as we know it.
I don't know if I'm, if you're finding this interesting or not, maybe I'll put you in sleep.
Oh no, definitely, definitely. Well, I have got this out of a book because the people in Geneva
needed somebody to translate their hack together documentation into a form that they could
actually have printed, PDF form. So they hired a guy who went through with a bunch of pearls and
whatnot and actually was able to produce documents that somebody could actually use. And he was also
supposed to have a report on the state of, of international networking at the time. And this guy
coming from America, or he'd written a bunch of networking books, especially on things like
digital equipment, decknet and whatnot, maybe no bell stuff. And he knew what he was doing.
But with the help of Sun Microsystems, they put up a server out in Colorado with all this stuff
and had an FTP server on it so that anyone in the world could download these international standards,
which in paper form were an armor leg up to the knee because they were a flush front
for the OSI brass and the OSI people. Yes, if you want, if you want our standards, you buy our books
all five tons of them or whatever they were. And they were printed in large quantities and sold
in small quantities because of the incredible markup. And the bureaucrat said, well, if you don't,
if we don't price them like this, we're not going to get the money to do other international
project. Of course, if the other international project would be funded through UN grants or
what have you, they wouldn't be funded by folks that attended to end up in the OSI sellers
being replaced by a new stack of folks printed this year, sort of, sort of like the phone book
thing, but gilded and some very cozy arrangements were made between the printers and the government
bureaucrat. But the writer of this book actually went around the world a couple of times and interviewed
various people who were putting the national and international networks together. This was like
1991. And at the time, the connections were rare enough that people could actually tell
how, let's say, Japan was hooked through Hawaii or hooked through cables headed elsewhere. And because
of the usage restrictions at the time, because a lot of these would government funded or research
only or what a military only, whatever you wanted, a lot of these connections were this traffic could
go through this route and this traffic could go through that route. And there were people who
were doing like out in Hawaii, they did the first kind of networking that it looked like
Wi-Fi, but was done to broadcast networking signals all over the Hawaii and islands. And there was
a whole bunch of stuff going on. And the European Union was trying to get its networks wired together
and countries like the Eastern block would connect to the global network through basically phone
patches, all sorts of crazy stuff going on. You know, one thing that I've always found interesting
is, you know, I guess I don't follow this stuff, like some of this stuff very closely,
but say for instance, like GPS, GPS was like basically a military thing for a long time,
but then all of a sudden it gets like opened up for a civilian use, you know, just like, well like
DARPA, you know, it was like, you know, basically the beginnings of the internet and then all of a
sudden, you know, it was opened up for a civilian use, but you know, I like to know, you know,
exactly, you know, how that process, you know, actually goes because, you know, it's like, you know,
it's like first something is like used by the military is sort of like secret and then all of a
sudden they're like, anybody could use it. I think that's really interesting. Well, part of what was
happening was DARPA was having all the universities or a lot of universities and contractors
would go to DARPA with their projects and they would be asking for a big computer and the
universities or researchers would want their own big chunk of computing power. And yeah,
there were military uses for it, but in the early days, well, while it was still a DARPA project
where the D was pretty silent, they were debugging this thing. And yes, because a lot of the initial
funding was to unify the defense slash research, basically the networking was to give a backbone
to the military industrial complex. Yes, there would be a command and control element,
but early days, a lot of it, a lot of the networks traffic was to connect research institutions
and to try to harness together everything that was being done scattered across the country.
It was only later in its life did the ARPANET actually get into military use because they first
had to figure out how to make it work and how to hook computers to each other and how to
rug stuff and all of that. But a lot of the military, the so-called military uses for the ARPANET
early on because it was a very limited network. It was made up of 56 k-bots synchronous lines
in the early days. 56 k-bots sounds familiar. It's what your fast dial-up modems were selling.
As their good speak, they never really achieved it, but on a synchronous line when nobody
else is doing anything anywhere it's cut, where it's not just residential quality phone lines,
or hopefully it's better than residential quality because it's commercial grade, they could actually
do shit. But the deal is that by, I mean, they were telling the truth that putting together a
network, a packet switching, where if a link goes down, your network routes around it automatically
and all of that good stuff was great stuff for the potential nuclear war. But a lot of it early on
was how do we connect it, how do we connect this machine to that machine? And the interesting thing
is that we killed that noise. So now you're making me want to look up some of these like
old RFCs for like a telnet and a FTP. Yeah, well, the whole thing with the original RFCs were
people working on the project and whatnot. We're handing around, and in the early days,
since there wasn't really a network, it was a lot of nailing paper back and forth. But the way
the original network was made up and a small firm called both Beck and Newman in Cambridge got
the deal. The computers, the big computers, which the network was made to serve, were not cooked
up to the network. They were hooked up to many computers, which behaved as basically as routers.
And those machines talked among themselves over the primitive networking protocols. This is a long
time before TCP IP, but they talked to standard language between each other. And every computer
all you had to do for your, whether it was an IBM or a digital machine or Sparry or whoever,
is you had an interface that could talk to these many computers. And you sent data into the
many computer and you said, all right, I wanted to go to node whatever. And the the M network
would handle all of the packet handling. And they did all this networking stuff
was done so that they would come out with a standardized design for an interface card for each
machine and interface software or not. And the basic data handling and whatnot
was handled by interfaces to these, to the many computers. And the many talked among themselves
and could do things like reload each other from paper tape or they could send diagnostic
information. A lot of the early networks traffic was the network talking to itself,
telling everybody who's who's who's alive, who's dead and who's sick.
And that's interesting because I'm I'm used like punch cards before and same punch cards before,
but I've never used or seen actual paper tape.
Well, I have started out using paper tape. What they had at my high school was a couple of
teletype. And these were mechanical keyboards printers with a punch for an inch wide tape,
which I believe it had eight dots across because it was an eight-bit code. Now on the teletype,
so we use they only use like you had six dots and one channel was used for parity. So you could
try to see if if the signal that if the character that you were transmitting has gotten corrupted
along the way. Right, right. But the actual machine were uppercase only at least in your basic
teletype model 33. Later on, they had the teletype model 37, which used seven bits out of the eight
possible. So you had upper and lowercase, but on the initial machines, they're all lowercase,
all uppercase, pardon me. Now in Unix, a lot of that cryptic things why CP and Unix is so short
and LS and all of the other alphabet soup is that on a teletype, it didn't have an ordinary electric
typewriter type keyboard. It had a very mechanical, very heavy key press keyboard. And using those
horrendous keyboards, you didn't want to type anymore than you had to. So you kept everything short,
kept everything to a minimum, as well as on the early PDP 11, you may have only had 32 meg
or kilobytes. You may have had only so many kilobytes of core. But what I, in my high school, we had a
Wang, I think it was a Wang computer, or we had a certain chunk of a Wang computer that was
close up over the telephone at 110 bars, which was 10 characters per second. And
whenever you were typing something, it was a thud, thud, thud, thud, thud, thud, thud, thud,
as you were pressing keys. And when you were running paper tape through the machine,
because paper tape was your storage mechanism, it was a way of sending back to the computer,
your program in digital form. When you had a, got a listing, or you were satisfactory,
you would have it punched out on paper tape. In fact, the first sub routine library,
were actually libraries of snippets of paper tape, covering different problems for different
computers. And everybody's programmers got together and created these snippets of tape. And when
they were doing programming, you'd have some new stuff, but you'd also pull out of the bag,
individual snippets of tape to do things like maybe calculating a square root or whatever kind
of functions you were going to do. But by having them on paper tape, they could do what were
essentially cut and paste operations to put your program together. Man, paper tape storage on
paper tape just seems like it would just be so flimsy. Well, actually, the tape was fairly
sturdy. And it was a fairly standard software medium, even on many computers and whatnot.
In fact, there's the only difference between some of the absolute bare bones, sort of hobbyist,
or, you know, is that when you got to a certain level of certification,
you didn't use the teletype paper tape reader and writer. You used a separate device that could
read and write printed tape much faster. And a lot of that stuff, you see in a ticker tape
grade, is the use of these kinds of mechanical recordings or sorting punch machines. They would
punch stuff on paper. And every time that they would do that, they would also punch the
except seven bits plus parity in a row of holes on your paper tape. Now, once things got
sophisticated, they would hold, say, you would take your paper tape over to a special reader
in the front of the computer, a refrigerator, high stack of different modules with different cards
and then, but the way you started the tape is you put it in the reader with a little bit of naked
cereal ahead of you, but the whole thing, as you put it there, and then you would, you know,
start the tape reading and the tape would go through its reader and the keys would
further respond and the printer would probably print out what it was seeing.
And that's the name of that tune. And the teletype attached were for slow application.
If you had to build an app, build something like an operating system for this particular
configuration, you could use paper tape too, but it would be likely a number of different passes
to get everything into the into the computer's memory. A nice feature of the memory of the time
on most virtually all computers is it was magnetic. It may have been a bit to get those bits in
there, but while they were there, you know, if you turn the power off, it didn't all go away or
go to complete crap. Now that was awesome. Also, if you shut down a core memory computer,
you could stop at hard piece, so to speak, and then with the right clip of the front panel switch,
you could get it running again and all of the stuff would basically be where you left it.
So it would just start up from the same spot. So how long could you like leave it off and still
have the program theoretically years? Okay. Because it was stored in there would be a matrix that
looked like a window screen. Hey, what happened? What happened? What did you see happen?
All of a sudden, everything was quiet. Maybe you dropped off the channel.
And how long was I off channel? Maybe about like 10 seconds maybe?
I know what happened. Micro sleep. Wow. Is the time for bayet?
Actually, I probably should sleep, but if you can probably look up most of the stuff if you want.
Yeah, I think I will. I think I'll look up some of those tape readers because I don't think I
can remember even saying one, but I think I will. Also, the interesting thing about core memory
is the cores where they had x wires, y wires, and then there would be a third wire, which would be
a sense wire. And core memory, when red, they would put appropriate voltages to the x and y
wires. And if they got a pulse, that would be a one or if they didn't get a pulse, that would be
a zero. Because when the two voltages interacted, they would flip the magnetic polarity of the
magnetic core. However, because reading constructive process, they would have to read the information
out and then immediately write it back to the memory. So it was almost like the
refresh process of dynamic memory. Now, also the interesting thing about these cores is that a lot
of them that early on, they were hand threaded in the far east because you could get
ladies in Japan or China or what have you thread these cores by hand. IBM later on developed
machines to thread a whole bunch of cores and to test the cores and to do a lot of stuff. But
also, every generation of core memory ended up making the little donuts smaller. So the first
generation was a certain size. And then the next generation would not quite fit in the center
of the donut until they got down to a small size. But anyway, this stuff I have read enough
that I could recite this sort of stuff as I have for hours. And I thank you for your paper.
Hey, no problem. It's really interesting. Hey, like I say, I'm going to have to look up and see
if I can get some good images of these paper tape readers and writers. Well, one of the things
when you when you got your Microsoft basic back in the day, it did not come on a floppy disk.
It did not come on a cassette tape or anything. Your Microsoft basic would come with the early
micros, the CPM error micros or the pre CPM, because a lot of stuff would have the tape reader
to load the software, the commercial software, and audio cassettes used to record the actual data.
But all of your software would come as paper tape. And in fact, a lot of the early Microsoft
shipping was they would have copies of of the basic punched out on paper tape. And somebody would sit
there and fold it into a fan fold style. And then they'd put that in an envelope and they
ship it off to you. Wow, that's amazing. And then when you got it to your home computer,
you could run it through a tape reader, which was a roll of little electric eyes. And a light would
be trying through. And each roll of dots would be turned into one bite that was that your computer,
the monitor and your computer could could read. And that's how you would load your software
before there was floppies. And even after there was floppy, in a lot of cases, the paper tape,
because it was plain asking, would be far more compatible because every person who made the
disk interfaces and the disk drives and everything would have their own idea of what the format
should be. Right. Right. Yeah. So being able to load the stuff into memory and then have your
operating system write it out to your particular format meant that even if we had different
disk formats for the pro for a lot of the small programs, and you got to remember back in the day,
sometimes the machine would only have for a kilobytes of memory running at having a tape punch
on your teletype console was the easiest way for you to send me a program and know that it was
going to be reasonably compatible. Anyway, thank you for your patience. And if you'd
why would I pack it in, that's fine. Well, that's amazing. All right. I think it's a bedtime for me.
So maybe I'll leave the channel up and see if anybody else drops in. Well, that's right now,
that's my mission. I'm going to be here with my headphones on. And since I'm not going to be talking,
I can read or patch or or even listen to YouTube. And then if I hear something, I can come out here
and do the meeting great thing. So I'm going to be mining the store. This reminds me of the good old
days when I was doing security work. And I would be sitting at a desk in a little sort of look like
oversized a toe booth. And because you'd been up a lot of hours, especially when we were losing
the contract and you were working 64 hour weeks, you would be caught by micro sleep like that. And maybe
and some people didn't fight sleep to talk if I did. And they would just go to sleep.
And of course, if you fell asleep because you were in a warm little capsule and you would work
along the shift, you could be let go because you were not alert. But let it was a constant struggle to
stay away. Well, to stay conscious or wake might have been over, over building yourself.
Anyways, thank you for ever for letting me ride along. Hey, no problem. All right, I'm going to
hit the set. Take it easy. Okay, just don't hit it too hard. I want to get hurt.
Anyway, I think I'll stay out here and see if somebody drops by where we're in with the
farmer's cold and short rows. If we're going to wrap this up at 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock in the morning,
I'll do seven. Another glass of coke and motor on. Okay, take care. Thank you. You're a sip.
You've been very, very patient and very helpful. Oh geez, my laptop's not with the guy right now
when he's in the house he's moved into. The van crash or whatever, but what if these glows is a
rubbish job and left the bag out on the sidewalk or payment, I say over here, but it's what I mean.
The specific part every three minutes of the van and then come back and get the other stuff, but
some companies got to help and move stuff out. I'm going to have to probably take my SSD space out,
something, I don't know. They got like, there's a company called Clevo in China or somewhere
and they buy in, I think some of these companies buy in the Clevo laptops and then we've random
stuff a bit. So like my junior computer laptop is really a Clevo laptop or it was, but then getting
these parts has become the problem that breaks it turns out. And the Clevo only sell to small
businesses as well like that sounds like as well. Maybe that might not actually collapse now for real.
Maybe I don't see him. Maybe he really has. Oh, uh, he hasn't used to this.
He has a pocket pop in here once in a while, once in a while. I guess Lovecraft is just hanging out
up at the lobby. Who's Lovecraft? I've seen him around here. He's a part of the Linux Logcast.
I guess he's a friend of the characters. I don't know him. I believe more than he knows him.
Some ways it's like Christmas is over and in you yet because it basically means that
things are back to normal. The shops are open and at normal times and restaurants and things as well.
Maybe traffic with actinormal people are. Well, yeah, well, yeah, in a way. So I do have a school nearby,
or two school nearby and so there is a school run that like 3.30 in the afternoon or 3 o'clock
sort of thing. And in the morning as well. But that's not too bad around here actually.
But actually, it's him that while I live as well, they're going to build a down the road. They're
going to build a massive arena for use for bands, for music because there used to be an airport
down there. And the airport has been closed on the airport for ages, but the big company that
works on airplanes, one of them Airbus is still down there. And they're off this or some of their
stuff is. But on the actual runway, they've started to build though how there's already in the stuff
and there's a little thing. But the big thing is it's going to be a arena down there where big bands
can come and where bands can come and play music and stuff. And it's going to be actually
not playing I think next year. So it's where the airplanes were stored before. The hangos
or whatever. And then they're changing that into the arena or refurbished it. Yeah. And it's near
the city, the actual city as well and where I am. But what it means is that it's going to get very
busy around here in the future probably at times. And the roads can't really be extended either.
It's going to be a train station put down there. So I don't know quite. I say that this road
is busier today as it is like like what like now for example, but it's going to get even more
busy at times once that arena comes. It's sad in a way actually how the world is sort of
how it's been built. Well, I developed countries and stuff. It's like, you know, you want to go
somewhere? Well, okay, but you'd actually go travel on the road somewhere. I'd be at a car or
a bus or or almost a train sometimes. But we have to like travel these distances because of how
it's all set out as well or how a lot of things are set out. And you have to basically travel
if you like it or not at times. Just how it is. Then we'll hear me say that.
Yeah. And they could do it making the buses better here. Well, there are buses. Well, people
can think about the buses around here, but they're not too, they're not worth really,
they're not too bad really, I find, but they may not always be better on time with things.
And then they were going to talk it there. We're talking about making it possibly an underground
train or metro, but the chat, but it's going to cost four billion pounds or more and it's not
going to happen probably. But it would have been a nice idea because other cities have them like
London and Brussels and New York, yeah. But we don't hear their trends way back. That's gone.
Yeah, they could do it with improving public transport and that's not just England. That's
probably pretty much any country really. Be that trains, buses, yeah, public transport.
Is it any good way you are public transport? Can you get on the bus and get around these
way or is it just like no drive? They usually just drive. There's a bus that goes by.
Because load easier to drive, yeah. They're what? Because the load easier to drive,
where you are, you're not trying to get a bus or something. I don't know, they even think there's
a bus stop by me. We have such a small town. But do you say it was in Chicago or nearby?
Hour and hour. What time do you say you're coming up to 7am?
Yeah, 6.50. So it's 7, yeah, 6 hours behind then.
5 or 6 depending on the time zone and the day of the same time.
I mean, GMT or UTC, they were there, they were there, yeah.
Well, that was the other thing. I've said it's the net money, whether or whether,
but even as humans, we messed that up. The day is 24 hours, yeah.
Because you got day like saving times and they have a move forwards as well.
That's why the New Year show was 26 hours, see?
40 hours ahead of GMT, 12 hours behind.
For even 24 hour day, we messed up.
Should I do that? We have 24 hours. No, 26 hours now, actually, for the whole world.
Well, it's a fantastic testing. That minor argue lifestyle.
Maybe you wanted to get something. Did he?
Oh, I don't know.
Yeah, well, I've just been drinking, letting my ice water steep.
So some of the ice melts and then I'll drink a little more.
Letting me water that I've already drank, rebelling to my system.
And then we'll see what for another 16 hours, man.
Oh, see, that must collapse, I'm sure.
32 hours plus 16 hours. Imagine that, actually.
No, I can't.
That has to last a long time, isn't it?
To be awake.
Yeah, well, back around the turn of the century, I was doing this stuff all the time when I was
even getting paid. Now, not much was getting paid.
Well, to be awake for long time, yeah.
Yeah, I was a security guard at a, at a condo complex near here.
As far as traffic, I live in the, in the Boston area.
And, well, Boston drivers are known.
It hasn't been proven that someone can get their driver's license out of a cracker jack box.
That's funny. That's what life says.
When I was over at MIT, at the Monterejo Club, in one of the temporary buildings that was left
over from World War II a little bit before the turn of the century when they tore it down,
somebody was saying that his wife, our buddy's wife is getting a driver's license.
I suggest everybody get a Chrysler product, preferably an M1A group.
Well, that Boston driver's would not break it, is that what you're saying?
Uh, that's British understatement as best.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Boy, saying that was, they're really, really, really bad, yeah.
Well, you have a, a real problem here.
For one thing, according to videos I've seen, they used to have special parking areas and one
whatnot where they would educate young drivers about the rules of the road and they would learn
to signal and all sorts of stuff. But in modern times, the young drivers are thrown into manic traffic
right out of the gate. So they never really have a chance to settle into, into knowing how to do it
right. They're just doing the best they can in a very manic situation with a lot of people honking
their horns and whatnot. Yeah, no, that's not where you get there.
And, and a lot of, and a lot of older drivers push a younger, younger driver to do something stupid,
which is why it costs something, I don't know, $5,000 a year for, for insurance for an inexperienced
driver. No, the use case, very, very, very strict. Um,
you really don't just put people out on the road on the main road at that, you have to, you have to
do the whole theory test, pass that, and also the how to perception test, pass that, plus you have to
pass the practical test. And then, and then, and then, and also, and then you can, when you can drive
with someone who drove, drove long, long, long enough over 21 or something, but as you, as you're
learning, but also with the motorway again, you're not, or the highway you'd say over there,
you, you definitely don't go on the motorway or the highway until you pass the normal test,
you're not, that's, you're not allowed on there. You can't do driving lessons on the motorway.
Not, not a lot of normal. Maybe later on, you can actually get some special motorway lessons,
after you pass the normal test, but they don't, but they, they're, their drivers will not go on the
motorway or the highway. Uh-huh. And the insurance is going to be really, it's going to be quite
expensive usually for new drivers as well. And they had a company who gave the women, or
cheap insurance, same with women, and I think they got some trouble for that. Like, hey,
you can't just do that, because men, the idea was that women would crash less, or hardly ever,
and men would crash more. That, uh, we lost action now as well. I'm still here. I'm going to go
go grab some coffee. You'll, uh, coffee and that mind is going to just go out and, um, I hope
somebody heard what I think about car, car, stuff in the UK as well. Yeah, I don't know if it's
different for women, for the current trucks out. There was a, there was a, there was a
mattress. It was a company called Shia Hills, and used to have TV adverts, and it was like, yeah,
Shia Hills, woohoo, and aimed at, aimed at young women in particular, probably, learner drivers,
and like, hey, you're female, okay, well, in that case, you can get car insurance for low
cheaper than the men that come with us. Come to our Shia Hills wheels, but then they got into
some flat about that, like, you can't, you can't, you're not allowed to, you can't just do that,
come on. And, and, but it's a bit like, there was a chocolate, we're not the same thing really,
but it was a chocolate bar called Yorky as well over here. And for ages, there was a sign on it,
and it basically had a woman that was crossed out, and it was advertised as Yorky, like, man's best
chocolate, male, very, yeah, manly chocolate or something like that. And, um, again, they got
then some trouble later on when you got people going, hey, you can't do that. That's, you know,
so they had to block that as well, because people are people, I think, as a general
idea, because I was a gender, well, it's supposed to be like that, but, um, when we're
gonna see there are a few differences, but, but really, yeah, really people are people, which
shouldn't be so much about gender, someone is or not. Oh, they both can be a pretty aggressive at
times, especially when it comes on driving. Both can be aggressive, eh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's true. Women can also get requested on the roads, not just, not just men when it, when
it's driving, yeah. Maybe sometimes they don't realize how fast they're driving. No, the women,
or the men, either one, because they're getting those big SUVs, and then it doesn't matter how
fast you go, because nobody's gonna pull you over. Oh, the big cars, the, the big, uh, the big
suburbans. Yeah, we've got, uh, what's the, maybe it's probably the same thing really over here.
There are a few of these cars that are like, watch higher up in there, although they're quite a bit
higher up, and they're definitely big cars as well, and they're called, um, oh, there's got a name here,
I can't, I can't think of it now, but it's probably the same thing, basically. And then I guess in
the way it's true, unless you go and crash or something, then it, then it, then it becomes a problem,
isn't it? Finding good and so you crash the car somewhere. That's what I'm trying not to do,
and I let everybody else go faster around me, and I'm like, I'm, I'm slowing down, I'm, I just
turn 50 over the past couple months, and just don't feel like going fast anymore.
Oh, you've come out like, you're like, hey, I'm a little man now, all right, I'm going great,
really slow. I don't really, so I'll just the speed limit, and nobody likes it.
I remember seeing a documentary on TV a few years ago, it was in the Maricops, and it was about
motorway, and there was an old woman who was driving so slow on the motorway, or highway, yeah,
let me say motorway, you say highway, but yeah, so I'm going to say the motorway, and I think
I'm somewhere in there, right on the motorway. And she was driving so slow on the motorway,
highway, that the police had to follow her and pull her over, yeah, not because she was driving fast,
but actually because she was driving like maybe five miles per hour, or something stupid on the motorway,
yeah. Oh, how I want to do that. Very much so. What's normal,
kind of, 100 kilometers? No, no, no, we have miles per hour in UK, it's your work that has
the current car on per hour. There, there, there, come on per hour, it's like 120, which is,
no, no, our speed limit because it is basically 70 on the motorway, 70 miles per hour.
That's about right. Yeah, although some people are going to go 80, aren't they, or 90, sometimes.
But yeah, 70 is probably about right, you're going quite fast. Well, you're going to,
if you crash with 70, you're going to, you might die anyway, so,
yeah, so one other thing, isn't it? You crash at 70 miles per hour.
Well, you might go surviving, get quite hurt, and the car depends.
I do think there's too many cars and stuff, look at a road now, it's busy.
I just, it's just people, just people don't care. I mean, there's cars polluting stuff too,
people just don't care enough. Oh yeah, I'll drive around and see you out, I'll go into my place,
I'll do whatever, okay, and then the next person, same attitude. Oh, okay, so people might have
to drive into work, or the school run, or take some retosts, or something, that's a bit different,
but there's also a lot of joybiders, I think, just out in the car because they have, yeah.
It's the way I feel about the motorcycles, I think they're out joy riding.
It's so-and-and probably are, yeah. Yeah, that's a lot of dangerous.
Well, yeah, if it crashes into a car or something, but both motorcycles pull even more fun as well,
I'm not, not like, drove a motorcycle, but I'll be on the back of ones in, but, oh yeah,
and they're going to do electric cars now, but that slide, that's a bit behind, that should have to
more so, I think. You can also, I would drink on water and net minor, not that likely, but,
could that could potentially happen? I'm just settling down here,
taking a good sleep, huh? Just taking it a little easy. You don't like where you are now,
net minor. Yeah, it's eight in the morning, it's quite well within reason, not. Maybe a bit cloud
deal or something, but, like, yeah. Still a bit dark here. Definitely like Hill, though, it's a cloudy
day out there, but why not too bad, actually. What are you going to do this year, Archer? What are you
going to do this year, Archer? I stepped away. Oh, he didn't hear me that. He's actually quite okay,
right? I said, what are you going to do this year, Archer? I just keep working. I don't know yet,
I haven't made any plans. Working, working, what are you doing? Electronic technician.
What's that tech stuff, yeah? Working on high voltage machines, drives, spindles. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Who just popped in? Just, net minor has made it after, he's still alive after being on weight, I think,
34 hours, it is not like that. I'm going to just popped in in the morning,
so I missed all the opportunity to pipe in before. Tell you. I missed the opportunity pipe
being before. Well, it was already heated last night in places, so that's as you heard.
Oh, yeah, that was out, so maybe I have to listen back later in the year. You can listen to them
out during later in the year, yeah. That was nice. It was entirely too much like home,
but that's happened before. I've heard this before from them and another. Well, the whole
light, the whole idea is that because of my background, I'm a little sensitive sometimes,
especially when I'm tired. Literally, when all that went on, I kind of told, I knew it would
go on for a while, so I kind of dulled it really low, and then I just like crashed about 45 minutes,
and then Kieran, who was in King Jose, what's going on with these guys? Probably not while you'll
never see Joe in here and in Tekken, because Moss is always off, we kind of run it. So how's it
officially in? Yes, yes, it has. It hasn't been shared, and it's officially bowed around
12 minutes. I think that's about the time I woke up, and I noticed my phone was still in here,
and then I tried to click on the app and it crashed. So I was like, it's a sign. We said goodbye to
2019, it's history now, not in the whole world as well, and I think 2020 for you is going to be
a better year for many of us, not all of us. I mean, if you can die in, you know, if you can happen,
that would be a section of that. There should be conferences again for like Foss David Brassel,
that's a good one for him, I'm looking forward to that in a month of time. High five show as well,
might be the other thing on the England again, I don't know. And obviously America's got
conferences too, but I feel that's a bit far away from me to go to America. I prefer conferences
over there. I'm there here, they're okay here. Wait, wait, wait, wait, we read some of them over here as
well. I'm well, I go over there quick. I mean, I used to. What England, England's got like, but I can't,
I've been, I've been, I've been, I've been, well, you, I talked to you last night as well,
you talked to a bit last night, you said you'd been to old camp, yeah. Multiple times. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. But not the Sheffield one, you claimed the signature. That's right. That was the other,
that was the other, that was the other American guy, then I met in Sheffield. Got you, yeah, no, no,
I had not, I think that was that one of those two. 2017 was camp debris, do you know that? Yeah,
and 2018 was Sheffield, yeah. And 2019 was Manchester. No, I did Manchester. Yeah, I had missed the
two four. Not even sure. I'm hoping, no, I'm hoping there'll be an old camp 2023 somewhere,
really, because I think they were looking for new organisers or something as well.
The love, do I am love, yeah. Yeah, there's a love here. They meet up,
please call team. I go occasionally. Now, or there's a, did you go free no live as well?
So what I'm sorry? Have you been to free no live? Did you miss that? I've not. That was in my city,
Bristol. I've got one on my bike, but I'm, yeah, the love that I've got is not particularly good,
either anymore. I mean, the main thing this is okay and still going, but actually trying to meet
people at a pub again, being that absolute nightmare this year, disaster trying to get us
there at the same time. And then there's only about two or three of us anyway. It's like, oh,
someone of a very old in that group as well. And weird are here. I mean, it's turned into a
political racial thing. I'm just, I'm an empty man. So I go in and they're like, claiming, making
these weird things like, we only use it because secure and you can help us cover up things. They're
like, no, I got to go. Really? Figure it out. You're, well, hit pee like, oh, we just secure.
Have a while. Well, one guy joined, like, tech and coffee. Yeah, here in the sun. He joined the
community and everything else and different politics differed. Everything else made all these weird
claims. Like, like, when I told them Ubuntu was based off of the South African word and it's
based in England, he was like, no, it's an American. Linux is American. I'm like, no, it's kind of
finished when you get it all like testing. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that, yeah, you're right.
Well, yeah, it looks exactly finished when we talk about it. Point out the facts to them. They
think it's like something. When you're talking about the kernel, it's finished. Like it or not,
lines 12. I know. I know. I know. Like it or not. It's what it is. It's like, or not, is even
no conicals being based in London or the office there and whatever. Really, you can say it's South
African because Mark Shuttleware for South African. Yeah. So I met him once. Mark Shuttleware,
if that was good. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Foss, Foss, Foss Dem 2016, right? In Brussels,
Belgium, yeah. I was, I was there for the tablet talk. So they were going to release the Ubuntu
tablet, yeah. And there were two talks, something I was sitting there. And then there was talk,
it was like, okay, yeah. And then some guys started answering all the questions. So to speak
them out, speaking there, like sitting there, if you're going to be like, hey, that girl,
what do you seem to know what he's on about, doesn't he? And then it clicked with me because I've
seen videos before. It was like, oh, it's Mark Shuttleware. Of course. Oh, my God. Mark Shuttleware.
Yeah. Of course. Oh, of course. It's Mark Shuttleware. I think somebody else might have done it.
And he went up and met Mr. Stalman and Bath as well, um, 2013 at the end of his talk. But,
anyway, so I've seen him met him before, but Richard Stalman. So, yeah, sorry, Mark Shuttleware.
And I was like, oh, Mark Shuttleware. And I went up. And I'm not sure if Stalman might be in
anything. Yeah, yeah. Well, he gave us all over the place we did. And yeah. But Mark Shuttleware,
it was like, oh, Mark Shuttleware. Okay. And I think somebody go and talk to him. Maybe.
Anyway, anyway, I did. I went up to him. And I was like, I was like, hi, um, yeah, I,
yeah, and he chopped my hand as well. And I was like, yeah, I kind of moved away from
and banded some other this through. Although, I'm very interested in this phone project and start
a tablet. And it's kind of winning me back over. And I could have said a better question really,
but I said to him, I just said to him, how will you strip the space station? Yeah. But instead,
I said, oh, we'll have to tune in online in the past. Oh, we'll put everything in mainstream.
I could have asked them a better question to be fair. And he was like, no, probably not.
It'll be a bit niche. But he did check my hands. And he said, hello. And you know, and it didn't
last very long. But it was, it was very, but I text my friend from the love. And I was like,
guess what I just met today? Mark Shuttleware. And it was like, yeah. And it was nice.
Well, I got weird alarm. What have you got? Oh, my phone's telling me I need to do
to wake up. Oh, wait, you're awake. Oh, no, it's something I need to add vinegar to my HVAs.
It's something. Well, so here, because I'm in Florida, to even barely live during the summertime,
you need a HVAC's a whole house. A conditioner. A conditioner. Yeah. So like, I just had one
install done literally out of pocket. It was 10 grand. A new one. Well, so even in January,
it's still about very hot. Yeah. Yeah. So I barely turned it on nowadays. But I mean, I'll turn it
on like kind of low. So it just keeps, okay, you're supposed to add vinegar to it, especially here in
Southern. All this build up the little spout with pouring like a cup of every three months change filter.
You know, I have things in my calendar. I'm just trying to figure like, what was going off that told
me I had to do it right now today. I'll be right back and drop some vinegar and before I forget.
Now I'm going to smell what? It's not a bad thing. We clean it with it. I love it. It's when
you run it through. Yeah. As soon as I do it, I just chase your portion. Good morning,
modern scene. Good morning, modern scene. Especially there. Someone asked what I was going to be doing
this year. Hopefully in the near future, going to get all of a laptop and put prox mox on it.
First, I got to figure out my friends windows issues. Everything's heating up and they won't let me
put anything on but windows on it. Why is that? Well, I want her to get rid of windows, but she's
comfortable with it. I'm like, now a day, since I stop working, I don't need those problems. So
even have friends that you've got windows. No, don't do windows. I'm done. I did 30 semi-mine.
I understand. I only want it because her old laptop is the one I'm trying to get a hold of
for the prox mox project. Yeah, when my wife is doing things, I put an older laptop with
element. I mean, it looked like a Mac. My wife loves her fedora laptop too. It's the only OS that
could get past the new biosis. Maybe I just didn't know enough. I had wanted to put slack
we're on there on this particular laptop that didn't work out. I have Pokey.
Now I've got another long count. Yeah, I've got my new machine, but it will be
sometime Tuesday before I get the SSD to put in it. See, Pokey just popped in and then out again
just to say happy new year. I was hoping to talk to him. Well, I'm back how it was miles away, kind of
listening. So we've got pre-works, yeah. I'm still here. Oh, that?
I'm still here. I was going to see if Netmider does anything social. Like on the mastodon.
So it would be neat to get on with him. No, no, no, no, no, you have to go into Dreamland and you
can't help it. No, he's actually still sociable at the moment, but I don't know for how much long
I just was wondering if you did anything like a mastodon. So a mastodon is a big hype right now.
Well, at least for some of the tech people, it's actually had on Facebook Messenger, it's left
it for mastodons. But I remember, I remember something called Identity.can. Anybody bring a bell
with that? Identical. Yes, that used to be really good, but that was like 2008 or something.
Have you used friends? And then it became status. status.net as well. And then the
SFTucket webbing, it all collapsed. And Pampio got forked into Pampio, it all kind of collapsed.
But it's not open source or time to Twitter. Very good time. Wait, have you used it?
Yeah, somebody else talking about it? Have you used friendika? I don't know. Identity
can used to be a thing that was good. Well, friendika is pretty much like mastodon because it's
you know, a fedaverse type. Like not as many servers, it's not as well you. But friendika, I think
was the natural progression of anything. I don't know. I'm just guessing. It's a shame. I even got
to meet the Canadian guy who started Identity Car in the in Brussels that paused them one
of those years. And I was there and I was like, oh, oh, he's going to. Okay, okay. And I think
he had to stop it because he was running his own server and had to pay himself. I think it was
doing that as well. Yeah. Asked your question. Archer, I have notes, social presence to speak
about. Okay. That minor is not sociable. So we get to tap trim here and that's about it.
And then the logcast, right? Yeah. And I'm never on there. I think really podcasts anymore.
Well, I never really did. I mean, I've been on some other podcasts lately, you know,
guests or whatever, but I've been on this new year show, but I think really podcasts. And I don't
really tend to distance the podcast either. I did distance some of the old stuff. Not that old,
when I was in HPR, the other day, the other night. But normally I prefer to listen to some nice
metal music. Yeah, something with a bang or some sort of music, you know. And more of an
easy synth pop. Plus with a podcast, you have to listen to it in the slow speed for hours,
all the joke is you put on to what to to plus speed or free plus speed. Yeah, I can't do to speed.
I do about one and a half, 1.8. Yeah, somebody said, something that's mean like have clad to or
someone be the DD menu at two plus speeds. They get you through their own voice. Same with videos,
or what videos is that worse sometimes. I don't know. Oh, is that how they look like? Well,
I don't know. Yeah, videos drag on. Well, I do public speaking as well. So, so I've got like,
I tend to get my speed in toast masters. I don't know if you heard of that. And I tend to get my
video of my speeches recorded then as well. But then at first, like, oh, no, I just, I look like
that and I spit sound like that. So I help them and then get used to that little bit. Lots of people,
lots of people say they like caring their own voice. I did radio for a while. I hate my shit,
literally. And listen to myself. I'm like, ah, no. I know. Lots of people, I like that. I guess
it sounds okay to other people then. But, oh, they hear it in their certain way. But when you hear
yourself, your brain is just like, oh, no. Oh, I feel a lot of the editing for some of the
god. I sense so nasally. I sense a horrible. Why do I sense a horrible? Well, my, my unasked opinions
you don't sound horrible to me. All right, buddy. Sounds good in here. I just don't like to listen
to my own voice. Now, is there anything you'd like to know our hero or anything on your mind?
I'd like your interest. I find it difficult sometimes to be social because of
anonymous factors, including the way I'm programmed. Well, it's fine. Your programming is fine.
People are people. And now you have me. I have that D-Pesh mode song going off in my head now.
I told you I was 80s. Nice to be. What was that? That was like a hello mode. That was a
Morton chief phone. Yeah, it's a Motorola. That's all I use. In fact, I need to get the new 22.
Thinking about the style. So I bought the stylus for my goddaughter and she's loving it.
Morning. I'm going to go get headphones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Roll the phone. V-O-L-L-A. Look at the Google that. What I've researched and you're going to
use. But basically, you can have that. I've got I've got this. You can have it with the
Motorola OS, which is based on Android with the privacy stuff, or even better than that. You can
have with UB port. So basically, UB did what's up the bundle touch, you know, living on the community.
On what's actually on what's actually new hardware, the Motorola phone 22, 2022. Yeah.
And the other one was only like two years ago or something as well. So and there's also a robust
version of almost robust when you're working factories or whatever. So the idea, again, people
think there's no but there's no one sells a bunch of phones. And that's not true. You can get a
Motorola phone. It comes in from Germany. And I've got the one recently, you know, last few
months. I've got the Motorola phone 22, the normal one. And I've also got the other one in
the more robust thing. But very nice phones. And the crowdfunded. And yeah, you'd be buying
off one of these innards companies. These companies actually care about the stuff that we care about.
It's set up buying off. It's set up buying on which the Motorola will only have that nonsense.
Then it's off the phone off like this. It was great. Okay. They might not have the might lack apps.
But some of them can emulate the app sending away, depending what you got. And all you can set up
and box or something. But yeah, how's my sound now? Little low. But didn't hear me talk about the
Motorola phone. Motorola. Motorola. Motorola. Motorola. It was crowdfunded about two years ago
the first one. And now they've had the Motorola phone 22. There's also a more robust version. The
phone the X. It's called from Hello Well Systems now, the company in Germany. But basically,
you can have the Motorola OS, which is Android with like one of those more privacy respecting
versions with some changes, you know, or even better than that. You can have UV ports on there.
The Ubuntu touch, you know, the recent. The UV ports, what they're doing is amazing. That operating
system is very nice. Yes, it might haven't. Well, yeah, some people say, oh, we can't run that.
Can it run Android apps? Well, you can get an inbox working or something,
pull certain apps if that's the problem. But you have a choice between the two.
You go to the phone, you can refresh it yourself or send it back. I've got the, yeah,
no, the phones themselves are very nice. The hardware looks nice. It feels nice. And you'd
actually be supporting a company you cares about the sort of stuff that we care about,
instead of Motorola or whatever. It doesn't really care. They don't care less.
I say Android. And that's, you know, that's how it is. It's Android or iPhone. The mainstream
only thing else is not mainstream. But some of these things are great. Like, the Ubuntu touch,
UV ports, Vodafone. And I'm saying Vodafone because that's where you can buy something pre-installed
with it as well. Because the old stuff like the MX-4 is obviously not really sold anymore
the beat you and all that. And all those sale-fish OS that you can put on to certain devices from
a lot of former Nokia developers and things like that. Yeah, I've looked at the bullet phone before.
You know, if they shipped that to the US? Yes, yes. They should ship it to the US now. It's
being crowd- originally it was crowdfunded. That's happened. So they released the D.O.
Vodafone. I couldn't get hold of one though. Like, not the normal one, but I've got the Vodafone X,
the, um, other one, the more robust version. So I do have one there as well. And then they
call the crowdfunding campaign for the Vodafone 2.2. And you can, I believe you can just buy it
on the German website. Yeah. And how it sends to the US as well. Yes. That's cool. I have a,
I think it's a Xiaomi Redmi Note 7 that I have UB ports on. Yeah, oh, right. Oh, Xiaomi,
yeah, I think I saw that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Chinese, isn't it? Yeah, it was
a pain. I think I read that that was one of the writers that could support it. But the thing with
the Vodafone is obviously it's pre-installed. You know, they're supporting it. It's, you get,
you can buy it with the money you touch straight out, pre-installed. Yeah, or the Vodafone OS,
pre-installed, you have to make a choice between the two. But, um, but you can also then re-flash
yourself if you know what you're doing anyway or send it back. But, but yeah, that's actually pre-installed
here's a great option. One of the, one of the guys they used to work with. He has.
left of the Firefox OS stuff but if it's something else then. Something else. C-A-L-Y-X-O-S. It's an
Android system that it runs on phones that have special chips in it so you know everything is
secure in the end when you're using it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Where is there's this Kaya and
C-A-Y? Yes. There's a Kaya and then model, whether it's cool, or maybe it's that. Is it one of those
Android more privacy-respecting Android-based OSs as well? Yes it is. I put it in the chat.
Yeah. I don't know. There's a few of those. I mean that's what both of our OSs as well. It's
basically Android with the privacy stuff in there. There's a button you touch on the other hand.
I mean that's a decent operating system. I mean people go, oh but it's based on 16.04 still
and it's like well yeah but but they were going to be based on 22.04 and it's not really met
I don't think because because it was always behind the desktop like that anyway but I don't think
that matters so much because the actual operating system is great. You can get you got your terminal,
it's a very desktop-like, you got U-N-T-A and things and the app store is not overloaded.
Last time I looked I could go through with all the apps and just figure out what I wanted
upon with Android and I know I know as I find as well. Is there just way too many apps in the app store?
I can't go through two million apps and decide which apps I actually want like that you know
going on properly. There's too many apps. There's too many garbage apps that want to inundate you with
yeah yeah I was going to say that as well basically and that's exactly it as well and it's not
just too many in apps so there's a lot of garbage apps or junk apps that give you address. That's
what I found found exactly that with Android as well when I started even with just a few apps on
so I get an address somewhere or things pop up and you're like what where where where did I come from
and before you know you can sit in there with address when you're saying yeah whereas with
something like if I'm new touch on the other hand but the apps are the native apps are made by
people who love well yeah well they're not garbage apps but well there might be a few in there
somewhere depending what you call garbage but no they won't be giving me
adverts and it will be and it's mostly good. I refuse to use WhatsApp by the way. Yeah I don't use
WhatsApp. I refuse to use WhatsApp. I've never actually used WhatsApp. I thought about having
it installed possibly because I have a public speaking group on the committee. Oh oh my
might you join a WhatsApp group? No I don't want to join it. There's a group for the members too.
No I don't want to join the WhatsApp group and then my family you have a very group but
I think WhatsApp no thanks. I've got Facebook Messenger. Yes Facebook and WhatsApp now I know
that's not the point I'm getting out here but yeah I do have Facebook Messenger for those sort of
mainstream few people that I might want to talk to. I've got email. I've got don't really use
I.O.C. that much anymore but occasionally I'm like login. I'm not really on the mumble but
that's less but there's just too many different ways to communicate. It's a bit like when my public
speaking groups had to go online in the pandemic I was forced to use Zoom. Zoom yeah although
there is no meeting. I remember I said something. Can't we use something like Gypsy maybe or
it was like no but there's just too many ways to communicate and I was still like mastered on
that people were talking about. Yes I could sign up but on the other hand I don't really need that.
Yes that's maybe open source great. Yes too many ways to communicate but when we wanted to
communicate it should be open source ideally as well. Open standards open source but unfortunately a lot
of stuff is not that is popular. What's that? Zoom and I know that one of the three software foundation
guys Bradley Finney was definitely refusing to use Zoom. Whereas Karen Sandler on the other hand
who somebody might know the name here over here she gave in a little bit because she
of what she was working there and I think as well and that Bradley guy would refuse to go on things
unless it was a preparatory I think as well. That's kind of amazing with some of the FSF type people
how they would really put their mole nefics first even if they can't do certain things. Any comments?
Wait no I don't think. No somebody must have heard me but um yeah I know the name Karen Sandler
she had artificial heart. Yeah that's right she's being public about that as well she has some
sorts you've got some sort of the heart condition. Maybe it's bigger than it should be or something
well I'm not sure quite but she's in public about it and then she needed the device or something to
keep her alive basically. Right a matter to her. A set a set problem now as well. While she had to
give in here she she oh what I heard is that she needed a not some sort of device medical device
to keep her alive as well but but it's one by software and all the software was preparatory software
yeah yeah yeah I think I heard her and I'm glad they both talked on the past but I'm not
asked in in in when she touched I think it was yeah yeah Bradley could have a case maker yeah
maker whoever is um but that's one by preparatory software and of course Karen would prefer to have
an open source or free software you know but but by the sounds of it there was nothing like that
as such in the medical medical you know tech like that so she stuck for now with this preparatory software
yeah yeah I believe when she looked into it or the FDA the government agency in the US doesn't
test that they trust the manufacturer to test it and and uh say that it's secure and works properly
yeah well yeah it's probably probably do um and so she stuck you know she doesn't trust it
probably herself or you but she's got like no choice well uh things will change if a politician
pacemaker or medical device gets hacked and by the firm as he's called yeah he refused
to use things like zoom from because Karen Sandler gave in and has you zoom for teaching or something
it sounds like on virtual post them etc but and Bradley Come he made it quite clear that no he's
not using zoom it's probably a preparatory software and he said that he would even refuse to do
speeches online and stuff if they were using zoom you know he offered to do speeches and yeah
but that's what they do they stick to their ethics as much as possible these kinds of people which
is made which is quite amazing even if it even if it means that the Wi-Fi doesn't work on some
the rights it could be or whatever it is you know because there's drivers for preparatory yeah
although rich as salmon does apparently go on websites normally that was I mean that was
that was news about a few years ago leave a planet that that story yeah false death is good
should be there like Bradley Come Karen Sandler those people should be there but there's also
going to be a security bedroom it looks like this time so that can be great to go to again
we still here somebody's still here yeah have you you haven't you haven't you haven't
been to false them have you been to false them I have not oh okay you need to go to the
false them first if you've been to all camp and you come over it was you wasn't it
was that the other guy or you get mixed up somebody was it you he said you've been to all camp
well that the other guy somebody else all right well either way if you're going to come over to a
conference in Europe I highly recommend false them and it's happening here this first weekend
pepper again and it's like the biggest open source free software conference in Europe it's
that I'm actually recognizing as well and yes people like Karen Sandler and Bradley Come come
to that as well so I usually go to the southeast Linux in the Ohio Linux best I'm in Ohio
that's where I live I've been to the Texas Linux best once and in Ohio we used to have a
electronics hobbyist hacker convention called not a con that I used to go to but they lost
funding and stuff and fell through yeah I would go I would be interesting going to some of the
American ones but problem is obviously it's about the same for you if you're gonna come over here
really it's the same problem but the other way around is that you have to basically
pay a load of money on the plane flight probably to begin with and then you have to sit on that
plane for about maybe six seven eight hours or seven hours or something to flight flying over
we shouldn't much fun either and and yes all money isn't it somewhere to stay when you
over food etc yeah I actually just took my second international flight I'm in Thailand right now
oh somebody said there somebody was in Thailand and I didn't really understand that
you but maybe they were talking about you they were probably talking about me yeah yeah that
that makes sense so somebody what somebody's coming here from Thailand won't oh oh okay if you're
on top yeah if it was you that makes sense then why are you in Thailand yeah why are you in
Thailand I'm visiting my best friend and we're seeing if if we'll probably get there best friend
who I found somebody online from Thailand yeah a couple of years ago online yeah and she was
scams and dating sites and things now it's horrible oh yeah yeah when I first got on the
internet in 95 I always looked for a pen pals because I always loved that when I was a kid I'd
have been yeah I did that you're I did that as well like eleven years old sort of thing got
the internet and I did have like one two or three pen pals yeah we we we've released balloons with
our information on it and they made it over to Europe in most of us got one or pen pals from
Thailand no no I pen pals from Europe when I was a kid and when I got on the internet in 95 I tried
doing finding people around the world but most of the time I find people close to me that wanted
to cheat on their husbands there were unhappy marriages and of course all the scammers and and
stuff but when when her and I started talking we finally video chatted and she she told me that she
didn't want my money she wasn't going to send me money and she didn't need a man in her and I
told her that was wonderful because I didn't need a man in my life either right and but but the
I mean I've talked to tons of people on the internet over the years and it's usually scammers
people who want to get married tomorrow which is just the bad no I know I yeah I've talked to
loads of people on the internet over the years too and it seems these dating sites are free
one really well also it's all full it's just horrible but you can get you can get some interesting
people and you find and get to know how you buy I anybody really awesome I find I usually stay
friends with them for a between two weeks and two months and then for whatever reason they're gone
yeah or they do something really crazy and I'm gone but yeah she's she's uh
we talk every day and uh she's been wonderful um I ended up I was supposed to go crazy you said
like what oh sets of people I'm talking to or but you said that you so all they do is saying
really crazy and then they go what does that mean really how like one time I talked to somebody
in a couple messages and we went we went out and had lunch and watched a movie and uh
uh when the movie was over she was like uh I really need to know is this gonna end in a marriage or
like right that second she needed a decision and I was like uh at this point absolutely not
but if I had somebody else laughing there as well was that you were that you pardon
if I had somebody laughing there as well was that you I don't know yeah yeah so sometimes some of them
want to rush stuff too quickly yeah yeah but all the scammers or something yeah yeah lots of
scammers lots of uh um well and I also tried not to talk to anybody close to me because I don't know
I think it's easier to find out if you are really compatible in a friend level before
relationship level but further you are away yeah I stay as difficult but why why I think
well I was having this chat with not letting mine earlier amongst other things and so this
was part of it but um it's not sure if he's still here now that's just that one he's still there
oh he's probably maybe he really is maybe he really is asleep oh yeah he'd be talking about
after 35 at six seven hours yeah okay well I'm starting to see more of the thing more
I think I think we're dating when I've dating sites that are all for the only way scammers are
we're saying but what what I what I'm thinking why I was thinking as well is that some people have
have with open source and stuff have got some really extreme passions and interests or they're
kind of really really really into it and some people be it might be because I'm always a mass
booker as I don't know but some people would even pick during their special thing let's say we're
open source whatever it is be it programming some niche shop school project hardly anybody use it be
it testing updates quality choice be whatever they're doing right but they would pick drivers
packaging packages whatever they're doing but they would pick that and that would be the thing
that makes the most happy in life as well and they would pick that over anything else pretty much
including finding love having a partner right although saying that of course there are people with
girlfriends and stuff too that are into this there's a spouses and partners touring Brussels for
the time for it for them where you can their wives and girlfriends go on look around Brussels while
the men are in wherever in at the conference but I I had some years ago who said to me like oh
when you're looking for a girlfriend on a dating site I said to him one day I'm not doing
my I'm looking for some I'm on some dating site and he's like why are you doing that you gave me
a he was in his 50's early 50's he gave me a and that a bit of nasty British saying to sort of
say like yeah why are you doing that waste of time don't stop doing that waste of that what's
kind of good saying but it's been nasty in the context he gave it in and I and I was doing much
and he was like why are you joining quality shorts team why don't you become like a
passenger why don't you do this why don't you do that and that's what he was doing but he was
unemployed at the time he was going to go back into work can be self-employed had a plan
worked in factories in the past he ended up dying of lung cancer instead but I mean think
it I mean thinking about that time since because I'm going to do anything with speech later on
in March or something I want to talk about some of the extreme passions stuff I think if I can
do it right and I'm thinking like do these people I was saying and and and and and also when
he died he didn't just died he he decided he knew he's got lung cancer and so he donated two or
three years computers to the quality insurance so even in death he still wanted to contribute
because that project meant so much for him see it was and there was a story something in
gloom apparently they fixed a bug they were going to die as well but they they fixed a bug with
their feet apparently in gloom too before they died about a day or so before they died and I'm
and I was like if that's not extreme passion or whatever extreme interest except for what what
is and also it's a bit like why do they have that why do they why are some of these people so
passionate but I don't know but maybe it's linked to authors and Westburg in summer I mean I had
this chat with that minor earlier yeah I'm passionate about not using windows I uh well
and mostly Apple yeah yeah yeah yeah well yeah that's a bit different though that's like that's
like every nearly everybody using the looks we'll say hey I I think we're not using windows uh there's
a couple of us at work that are trying to push together to allow us to have a red hat on our
workstations and uh and uh all leave if uh they continue to refuse because our job is so difficult
using windows to manage the Linux with all the restrictions they have asked well yeah that's
that's a good point with that as well but I like it and all the experience but some of these people
as well these are so-called passionate people they will have a nine to five job let's say it could
be what you're doing whatever it doesn't matter some sort of tech job or whatever but then when
they come home they don't just go and go hey I'm a home now I'm going to eat some dinner or whatever
I'm going to watch TV or whatever in fact many of them will probably come home and be like you know
what I'm home now it's like it's my time okay I'm now going to contribute to my project my open
source project as well on the same day yeah even though they're not getting paid to contribute
there's not even being paid to work to do that open source projects but they do it anyway
because they think because they think it's that's a good thing to do or or whatever it or whatever
the reason there's and they have the passion and the next day they're probably doing the same
thing again some of these people and and it's quite amazing really and some of the projects as well
are brit niche it's a bit like or a bit like you need some technical expertise for this the
open SSL project had a bug in 2014 that you may have probably heard of actually called shell shock
remember that do you remember here mech shell shock shell shock yeah I remember hearing this yeah
and it sounded like apparently it was a small little library or project open source about 15
developers or something and some people were supposed to be checking the code as well but this
peacher got put in that was had a bug in it that it didn't take the both both men didn't pick up
on the bug they're both didn't realise the bug was there and then they got found that about
exploited by criminals and it's like the service areas to update but what was made it interesting
as well it was like open SSL saw that only about 15 developers or whatever it was not that many
developers apparently but yet such an important project suddenly it turns out for encryption on
on the internet of many when you're doing transactions bank transactions and things and
and then and then Apple and Microsoft and Google and so on found out as well and I believe what happened
was they were like sort of oh dear we're using this all summer so we need to sort this out we need
to work on this together let's get together when these bugs pop up we will put money into it we will
fix it we will use our people we will sort this out quicker in the future and I just think it's
amazing it that happens well for example everybody was so locked into it everybody was using it but
nobody was nobody was helping in any way yeah but yeah and it was maintained by only volunteers
apparently no paid developers yeah no one with a day job work on open SSL which is which is what
makes it quite interesting as well and then and then there's a there's an idea that the open source
stuff is a is like it is a hobby or a pastime and not a profession and it's like I got to ask Joe
Reese this briefly last night and I said okay he's a professional podcaster you know but but um and
so on but his response was yeah he sort of said it as well it's a bit mixed here and it's like
his open source just a waste of time and a hobby or is it something that matters and I mean if
it's a gaming project okay it's some hobby it's whatever but when it comes to something like
open SSL even the Linux kernel I mean our paid developers that now I believe but some of those
you know certain project surely it's not surely it even if you're not getting paid surely it
something worth doing and being involved with even if you even if pending on the project a little
bit as well it's not just dumb fun is it and people didn't work on Linux distributions as well
okay we don't need as many Linux distributions as fragmentation that's what people have said
years ago but but those are real projects and they need quality assurance testing and all that as
well and and um you can in the bank probably which projects are waste of time and shouldn't really
exist in general and open source and which ones should exist but and which ones are more important
than others but but surely it's more than just a hobby and even and sometimes you know people
are doing things that aren't are a hobby or they're doing it in the past time out of funnel because
they think it's good for you to do it they're not getting paid but sometimes actually that's
probably better than a paid job even because a paid job is just to make money really and do things
but but certain things should probably pay really that don't pay like when it comes to open source
plenty of example you know what i mean yes i do because i i'm faced with hearing a speech later on
about now i'm doing it i'm doing a do public speaking or do toast bachelors calls clubs all
around the world 144 countries and um my next one's going to be about rock and metal music
it says i'm faced with doing some nonsense with body language or something as part of the project
as well but then the next one it says something like talk about um the difference between non
between professional and personal communication style and or don't talk about the project
and i was just thinking like well really the next feature i want to do after that
is the stem steam stream plunge i've called it stem yeah science tech engineering mathematics
yeah have you had that term for stem yeah science tell me into it's nice to have heard
yeah you've had you heard toast masters as well right yeah so stem science tech engineering
mathematics so i bet that you can know my friend said to me face the computer you can
debate the part um art into it now stream science tech um no no reading and uh
well no no no no no no yes steam is next on the science tech engineering art
mathematics artistic expression presentations not being bored head don't know quite
and then it's on the internet you can call it you can even call it stream if you want now and
add reading and writing it which is like really so in the course of each the stem steam stream
people basically but says i'm simply talking about communication style hobbyist and personal
now which caught me a bit first because i was thinking like am i a profession i was like no
because i because i've got um OCD and i've been disability stuff a bit i'm not i'm not actually
working currently in that class but i'll just say that right i may have worked before but
whether right or may have not worked at all but it's not really the point i'm getting that
quite but when i first read the description i thought oh jeez they want me to talk about being
a professional and and and how i communicate and how i how i talk otherwise and they got me a bit
but but i think i think that's just part of it but but there is a difference from how you talk
anyway if you talk on here i mean net miners said it earlier how he's up to adapt how he will
talk in different situations but with you say there's some yeah and things like that
you talk differently if we give it a tech with we're talking to tech people be it in a conference
or be it on here the podcast whatever we talk like the way we do if you're talking to your doctor
or something you're going to talk in a different way and if you talk to your um girlfriend in
Thailand you're going to be uh speaking in a different way again i expect but i was what i want
to give them is a speech about about um stem and some of the episode stuff i guess and how
that people have a string passion and interest but it doesn't but it's really it's a good thing
they they know what they're talking about um they but it's something they matter yes you're not
being paid but what you're doing is amazing anyway it'd be like the UB port project which i mentioned
that's all volunteer based now and it's amazing what they're doing and you said you heard the
toast masters as well as that right yeah yeah i've worked with several people that are members
you have that's interesting i think i think toast masters upon with toast masters as well is that
in some ways is that they they there's two there's the kind well most people i'm the exception
some ways really i mean i mean i mean i mean it's aimed at kind of like business see type people
they're going to present in their business or or they're going to present in their university maybe
or well not just that not not only that it's supposed to sort of cater for everyone really but
but i think sometimes they cater too much on the kind of business side i'm the exception most of my
life i've not worked actually maybe all of my life because because because of uh
disability yeah OCD obsessive compulsive of sort that's the thing that causes most problems
in my life especially with timekeeping yeah because the world's very much about being somewhere
on time yeah and if you're if you're late it causes problems usually or well for lots of things
about it's already constantly late it's not just that there's the other stuff with those the
intrusive for stuff a bit it's not just a few people think it's handwashing and yes handwashing
it's not just checking handwashing it's quite a quite complicated thing then link that with um
i'm gonna say mild asperger the autism could apparently have got that as well a bit old diagnosis
age routine you see it's a bit it all comes a bit complicated um but and i'm thinking i'm the
exception of toastmasters in a way but even i'm also i'm also a vice-president membership at a
moment i'm supposed to be trying to get people into my club new members but um that's an under
committee i've got one of all but um but it's a good way to sort of practice speaking public speak
learn to do it get your feedback even rich astoundment that in toastmasters i ran originally
and they started going all the way around the world doing his speeches about why she didn't use
free software um and then i got used to doing that mentoring and i was thinking i thought that well
doesn't work in this place that didn't happen and whatever and no one's really mentored me but
i've taught people things online as well etc um but i think the steam thing is interesting and
what i'm wondering one thinking as well is there a link between steam in most not just steam but
it does seem that a lot of the inventors and scientists and programmers and and all this have got
have got at least some aspect traits they got either got autism aspergers diagnosed or they have
just a few of the traits and it's not diagnosed but it does seem that there was a link between
and maybe the stream passion thing as well is also linked to aspergers because most people don't
have that they they they're not really extremely passionate about anything like that i think
but we're all a bit we'll maybe we're all a bit different we're the STEM people see
we're not we're not average Joe and Jane are we we're the STEM people huh Joe I join I mean
do you know what I mean for you say someone was saying something what can what happened there
oh i said i said i do i in a gree did you see what i'm saying yeah and also and also people think
aspergers not with them is a bad thing and it's like well the whole spectrum and yes there are
people with learning difficulties and things as well and they look a bit different old and
stuff at times but but everyone is different but they don't say that aspergers usually the more clever
people the more higher up clever clever people and someone said like if you do a science degree
and say high-end physics or something like that PhD and say physics either probably meet a few
aspects a few aspects people definitely high you know we've got really complicated science yeah
yeah and tech tech there's more logical i guess tech is generally you got one way and that's it
for a lot of stuff it or it doesn't work or there's a bug if it's a program or you know it's
there isn't yeah it's quite straightforward when you understand certain things i guess
saying we'd like partitioning a Linux distra you you you have to partition it in a certain way
or it won't work that's true but i think there's flak around stuff like that as well so i was going to
like a bit older now i want to kind of i want to kind of i don't know we all die eventually i guess
it sounds sounds a bit sad saying that but it's true isn't it and it would and it would probably
get to try and do something but it's still really young be fair but you know things can happen
i guess i guess we call it but i didn't do something isn't it otherwise otherwise life is a bit like
what was what was what have i really achieved in my life oh or not a cheat you know i mean i do
that's one of the reasons why i'm in Thailand i just went through a year and a half a
cancer oh have you yeah i had a stage 3 colon cancer wow are you able to stop now uh i hope so
yeah now i have to say to well what were you talking about because because you thought why i'm
going to get love now then well uh we've been talking before i was diagnosed and uh uh did
student by invited me to come over and and and visit we had plans to go to Cambodia to see
Angkor Wat ancient Buddhist temple civilization that was lost um they rediscovered it in the 1990s
i think they 80 certainly nine um but uh she kept getting upset that i hadn't committed to come in
and it was because i was having uh issues with my health that i wasn't telling her out and uh uh
then i got diagnosed with cancer uh stage stage three uh colorectal cancer
oh yeah well yeah that's well yeah that's basically it isn't it's like well yeah we don't know
where i'm going to die it's actually either or or if i or or or it could just be health going down
so badly or something happened and then then you can't and then you can't go and do weather
something so uh i think a lot of people think oh we live for ages especially if you're young
on the other hand i mean i mean people can get shot something they can be in the wrong place and
get shot and okay things can happen yeah yeah i've seen uh i've uh been close to situations that
are just random and crazy yeah yeah i think my health is mostly okay but it's not perfect either
or i know and i know that full well i know there you know nothing major probably but but it makes
you think about it like yeah i'm getting older as well and i mean i hope i'm not dead in 10
years time or or in really bad health or something but you know you don't you don't really know
what's gonna happen to you no you don't and my my treatments and stuff were really aggressive uh and
i think everybody everybody was really surprised and the medical uh in oncology uh that i did so well
one they were surprised that my treatments were so aggressive and two they were surprised that i was
doing so well uh but i was like yeah this isn't this isn't what's gonna do me and it'll be
something else yeah no i know i know i know i know i know a guy from my group uh also uh you know
or whatever he had cancer but um he's i think something similar or whatever but he's he's over it
in my heart seems does like years ago yeah i just uh got the uh my last surgery was in september i
think august september um and i just got the go ahead the beginning of December to get uh
travel vaccines and and uh to travel so as soon as that happened i scheduled an appointment for my
vaccines got my vaccines scheduled my airline tickets and left yeah yeah well fun enough
it's kind it's kind of crazy uh because it's uh i'm not comfortable uh traveling or going to
new places and stuff it's a big deal for me uh i went to linux conferences for years before i
made any connections with people because uh i don't know just just too shy to introverted uh and
clatty was actually the first one that i was uh talking to i think that the southeous linux
vest i'd met him uh at one or two conferences every year for like three years and he didn't
remember who i was yeah i talked to choose not on film this time or see yeah uh but but we were
talking we were talking about sequel light because uh Richard hip who uh created sequel light was at
the southeous linux vest and uh um uh we were talking back and forth and and uh i i i got to the
point where i was talking past his knowledge level i can say and and he was like he was like wait
what's your name again so people have fast-faced or veckin as well i don't know if it's linked to
autism, mass barely could be or whatever because because i don't i have it at times as well and it was
like it's like it's like uh i was at um well now as a guy it came to my lug years ago i i talked to
him it really didn't box maybe twice and he remembered me and i met and and it was like um i didn't
think much of it a year ago but then i went to conferences and he'd seen me in he'd seen me at um
the thing in england and he'd seen me at picking brustles he's once or or something or
oh what happened and then and then and then also back in near my in my city when the other thing
was on and and then he was like oh it loads me and i was like well at first i was like i think
he was like like well i don't i don't i don't i don't i don't i don't recognize him at all like uh
they kind of told me who he was he reminded me and i was like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
yeah we yeah we yeah i met you years ago right um and also once i'm right followed
wrong people back from Liverpool to go to hotel or and i said can i go back with you
but i wouldn't be able to throw away what it wasn't that far away but i wasn't sure and i
followed the wrong people got wrong people and then i don't wish them whether my compass actually
they're like oh you get taxi from here or something like uh i wouldn't very far away but um
yeah generally people remember me as well be that be that in person or possibly online
sometimes well um they remember me yeah but i i don't i don't always remember them that's for sure
and i and i'm face of recognition okay if i'm if i've seen somebody i mean i was i was that i was
out i was out i'm in a walk um 2018 around here sort of there's a nice walk a bit of a
card journey away let's say but i was walking around there with someone and some woman
said a lotin it was like something and it was like why she was like hey you in the uh competition
in uh toastmasters weren't you for like um um table topics it's called with me and i was like
yeah years ago in the other club sure and it's like another house how she remembered me but she
remembers me seeing me in the competition i guess when she came along and so she's only really
being there once but even then for some reason uh but yeah face of recognition and stuff um maybe
voices to extent as well but that's a bit different three of those very much about faces really
isn't it that's how we recognize people generally speaking you you see somebody again oh yeah see
new before but we can't saying that we can't remember every single person we've met either
and what was what was a bit weird as well as i was going down to the wall in my city down here
judge a year because anyone twice to three knows rent but um i was at the bus running a bit late
at my at my local bus stop just out there and some guys suddenly started talking to me like hello
it's bastion i was like well what and you're like oh yeah i've been at the other conference and i
said you're like well why you go to this conference then but i'm expecting to i really
wouldn't expect you to meet someone out there that it's been that my one you know one your
other conference i've been out not out there no you you know you really have a problem when you
look in the mirror and says hey who is this guy in my mirror and that and glad uh uh verbal has appeared
now and that that's the first thing he says yes uh that happened to you didn't it verbal
oh yeah oh this old guy in the mirror oh jeez he's got even more grey hair now i think from
that time and a grey beard so happened to you i don't know if i do this uh i do the other
crystal laugh um pine me or someone else yeah yeah you yeah do you hear what i was talking about
face facial recognition stuff yeah yeah i read an article one time about uh uh like uh uh
disconnecting with people um uh when when too many people are in the same area like cities and
stuff that below a certain number of people there's more uh a piece and uh harmony and stuff
and it's supposed to be related to tribalism and how we can only uh recognize and keep
associated in our minds around 200 yes that as well that's that's kind of a different point but but
but yeah i find this as well that i mean i'm in a place i live in a place that is generally speaking
quite busy in the day lots of cars going through as because of the actual city is right there as well
but um you know lots of cars going through there's cold there's a college not the same in Britain
there's the USA but yeah big your college is that educational based down the road there's a university
down the other side campus there's lots there's shops there's lots and lots of people around but
obviously when you go out there the other thing is people don't say hello or what or barely say
hello you just basically walk past people for the most part and it's a bit sun the way really
if you see somebody you just definitely walk past no one says hello it's like it's not like the
Simpsons for example the cartoon you know where everybody knew everybody yeah well so part to that
conversation um where i live in Kentucky everybody says hi it doesn't matter if you've never met
this person in your life you're like hey how's it going and that's literally like that's all you
ever say but yeah i've i've lived in places like upstate New York nobody ever said a word
and i'm the weirdo going down the street hey how you doing you know this yeah waving people in there
just like in me like i swear i don't know you get away from me you know yeah saddened it like
that and then it's and then then what i've heard as well is when people found i think there's
somebody found someone online or they moved somewhere else and then and then some some other person
moved as well then it's really family children online and it was like hey we used to live in the same
place basically before but we didn't even know each other so we meet here instead it's like what
yeah i'll have i'll have customers come in i'll work at a a local cell phone to you and uh i'll
have people come in you're that guy that said hi to me and like Kroger one time i'm like probably
about 30 times yeah but i don't remember like it honestly like earlier you guys were saying
200 people is what most people keep in their minds i'm like i'm lucky if it's 20 like i don't remember
anybody i think people tell my customers i'm like it's nothing against it's it's not that i don't
want to remember you it's just i usually deal with on average 40 people a day yeah i don't
want to understand how teachers do it other than they have the person you know they have the kids
every single day yeah i think i think about it yeah well that thing appears to have a list of names
in front of them to help out yeah that helps too i don't get that luxury i have to sit there and go
what's your name again you know and i i tell them i'm like you i'm wearing a name badge you're not
i promise you it could be a year from now unless you come in like once a week which i do have a
couple of customers who i'm like hey you know bill how's it going how are the kids you know there's
a few people that have come in so often that i remember them but it's very rare where do you work
and there's a few that i don't even have to ask them their phone number i just punch it in while
they're pulling into the parking lot what do you work uh i work for t-mobile okay i think the right
day i think what happens as well is that to be remembered you have to also do
have something that well something that makes you stand out something weird maybe or maybe not
was weird but something you know something that kind of makes you stand out in their mind and they
think oh yeah i remember that person oh yeah i remember that oh yeah that's the one
that's crazy crazy and believes in every single white you know uh thing about any experience
yeah yeah so you going around saying hello in a place where no one's over there is probably
enough to do it because they're thinking that shit crazy guy yeah exactly that this one guy
gave me day brocky will be remembered forever but it's sad that it's like that as well
and what it is but it's also funny because i can be like so if you heard anything you know
interesting like i used them to find out what the newest conspiracies are like uh Biden has been dead
for three years JFK juniors still alive and running with country uh well i can't remember
there's so many of them that i'm just like oh okay cool what i found what i found as well
as this right when you're out and about and these kind of places now like i was saying people don't
say hello people generally ignore you but there are exceptions to this so for example i
went up to my it's only up to a rotate we've got something called Greg's in Britain say it's
right well go check go try it out if you ever come over here it's basically a bakery type
chain but it's all over like well most of the country and you can have your little sausage rolls
you know veggie vegan stuff and that and and you can get that you're very quick go in there
get something come out with it but i have a paper john next door it's closed currently you might
have a pump we've got a paper john's over there believe it well um there's a domino so i had to
down but i remember on one tickler afternoon i was it was reasonably nice whether i walked down
it's not only about 50 minutes walks like that far and i and i and i thought well i'm going to buy
the Greg's and i'm going to eat it outside the Greg's buy buy the Greg's i should like pretend to do
but but i wasn't i was not in the rush to go home when you think and it was like come at the
fire clock the boat's quite busy but the paper john was there and what was interesting is this guy
came out of the paper john to deliver a pizza somewhere on his bike or his car or whatever
and i i i i think i've eaten my Greg's been there about half an hour start looking at my phone
whatever i'm still there and about an hour later i'm still there right so he came back
and he looked at me and he was a bit like uh like like like like like like like like like why
why am i so late you know like why why am i still there basically i don't know are you all right
are you waiting for bus or something i'm like no i'm i live nearby what i say i just that's one
example but it just kind of shows if if you if something makes you look a bit weird or unique or
bit like hang on you've not left this area you're still in this demo area and you haven't moved on
it's out later people start to wonder don't they when they don't really know what's going on yeah
yeah uh poppa johns was actually started by uh a Kentucky and so yeah i know poppa johns very well
he's a he's a jerk but he still does things for Kentucky i guess uh yeah what was that comment in
the chat said just tell them something you're at my side yeah uh well i did it in the shop once as
well now as well as conference and eating properly and i was like should have moved back so tell
us again they kind of wonder them waste or outside here where we don't left the the shop area
did the whole way outside in the service station but but yeah so it's it's it's it's kind of
sad there and then again where are you from what are you doing why are you out there why are you
out there still so it's like people just don't care unless unless it looks a bit odd then it's the
exception isn't it then okay yeah you have to say yeah i don't find that happens around here lately
it's people are kind of getting to that point like uh you're you're there all day okay sure whatever
yeah you have to say uh if people ask why are you sitting here you have to just say hey i'm
planning my attack and then they'll really pay attention to you so we have this really nice
white jacket for you to try on uh we may also have a padded room and it's great you get to go and
jump against the walls we gave you great hills you get to hug yourself all day well point me in
that direction yeah there's been a few days where i'm like you know what i'll take that that's
fun yeah let's go yeah the missus is a therapist of sorts and from time to time i'm like how much does
it cost to go to eastern so i can get a vacation and she just gives me this look and i'm like i'm
not kidding like literally what do i have to do you have been listening to hacker public radio
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