Episode: 3238
Title: HPR3238: Linux Inlaws S01E20: The Xmas and New Year Special
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3238/hpr3238.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 19:26:45

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This is Haka Public Radio episode 3238 for Wednesday the 30th of December 2020.
Today's show is entitled, Linux in-law Ns01020, Linux and New Year special and in part
of the series, Linux in-law Ns020's show on Monochrome and in about 100 minutes long,
and carry the next visit flag.
The summer is, an episode on the past, present and future not just on-foss, all will be explained.
This episode of HPR is brought to you by archive.org.
Support universal access to all knowledge by heading over to archive.org forward slash donate.
This is Linux in-laws, a podcast on topics around free and open-source software, any associated
contraband, communism, the revolution in general, and whatever else, fans is critical.
Please note that this and other episodes may contain strong language, offensive humor,
and other certainly not politically correct language.
You have been warned.
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That's the content is not suitable for consumption in the workplace, especially when played
back on a speaker in an open-plan office or similar environments.
Any miners under the age of 35, or any pets including fluffy little killer bunnies, you
trusted guide dog unless on speed, and Qt-rexes or other associated dinosaurs.
This is Linux in-laws Season 1 episode 20, the Christmas and New Year special.
Hi Martin, how are things?
Hey, Christmas things are fine and deadly.
Well, not to that, what the year it has been, right?
About a year ago we heard about strange rumors about a flea market, but an animal market
in some Chinese providence, and before you know it, we are fucked.
Of course, this is still explicit, HGL if you're listening, so we can say words like fucked
and screwed and harrowed and child pornography and all the rest of it, so this is still explicit.
We can.
Not relating to the past year, don't know, aren't they, really?
No one was in my case, so you could obviously devilish things on a different episode you
thought.
Indeed.
Maybe we should just cut to the chase and let our artists listen to snow, what the crack
is with that episode.
The idea is, of course, to take a look at the concentration or the last year, rather,
and then take a peek into the future, and as we actually heard on a recent episode that
predictions are pretty hard, especially if they concern the future, and that's a quote.
Yes, and that's a quote from recent episode, actually the big language panel where Mike
observed that fact, and that's still very valid.
Okay, Martin, let's start with the concentration.
IBM and Red Hat, discuss.
It's not quite current, is it?
Did that not start last year, as in 2018?
That's the year before last, I think.
But you're right.
Yes, anyway, okay, do we think anything has changed?
Well, I don't think Red Hat anymore, but yeah, I don't know about it.
Well, they start to fire people if I'm not completely mistaken, right?
In terms of make them, make them redundant, and actually they do touch the brand, which
they promise not to, if I'm not completely mistaken, and if press release is on, I think
they go by, of course, in the case they're probably not.
It depends how you define, I've changed the brand, right?
That's quite open to interpretation, there we go.
Yeah, so is this, do we think that Windows will become, okay, we're going on the future
and history at the same time here, do we think Microsoft will just be?
What was that all about Red Hat then?
I thought it was more than, I thought it was more to say about this, just leave it at
that.
Okay, okay, so Red Hat, right, I don't see much Red Hat anymore these days, don't
about you.
The brand is still there.
People are slowly, what's the, what I'm looking for, this integrating, I don't know that
for it not yet.
I mean, they are still, I mean, don't get me wrong, the website is there, the salespeople
are there.
At least here, I mean, at least here in Germany, the red Hat people I see, well, I used to
see on the recommendation in person, and now it's more like virtual these days, still
claim at least the field has some sort of independence.
It's probably different in the US, and especially if you leave that protected realm of sales
as an engineering and stuff.
Yeah, so, I mean, IBM are a little bit, a bit weird with the open source strategy, right?
They claim to support many things, open source, but what did they actually do apart from
by Red Hat?
They contribute here and there, for example, I had to change, well, Linux of course comes
to mind.
Yes.
I mean, everybody contributes to the next one.
Well, almost, right, even Microsoft does these things.
Well, Apple doesn't, for example, but that's the difference.
No, I mean, they started this whole mainframe Linux thing, right?
That was IBM.
And fair enough, they make a lot of money from Linux, from stuff like Linux 1 and friends.
It was even a voice inside IBM saying that within 10 years or 15 years, MBS, sorry, it's
called zero as these days, as in their legacy, that mainframe operating system that has
been on for at least 30 years or from before, will be a thing of the past and all that is
running on these old iron machines will be Linux, which makes sense because when you buy
a ZOS system, even this modest model actually comes with virtualization, but then you cannot
get it.
Who are these people buying ZOS machines?
Well, they still do take a look at the balance sheet of a company called IBM.
This is where this is still where a good chunk of of Bula comes from.
Yeah, well, actually, well, okay, the buying it, but it is replacing the old stuff, right?
Well, like maintenance.
Well, yes, but you see, there was that prediction and as I said, predictions are always
art in 99 or 2000 something that the mainframe days are numbered and now it's 2020, and they're
still making a lot of money and the mainframes are still around.
I live in full disclosure, I live in Frankfurt, Germany, and of course, as probably most
of our distance know, that will be the banking capital of Germany.
And I don't know any bank of a certain beyond a certain size that is, that doesn't have
a significant mainframe installation for the simple fact that the general legend or the
rest of their mission critical software still runs on that kit and has been doing so for
the last what, 30 to 40 years, easily.
Oh, more than that.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
So it's hard to get rid of the mainframes in certain companies beyond a certain size
full stop because there they have been around for ages, nobody touches them, the stuff
is rock started, works, and as we all know, you never touch a running system unless you
are kind of facing death or something.
So I reckon to coming back to the Linux, yes, that would be one of the major contributions
as those.
And if we just dig deep enough, they have been contributing to this run center, probably
of course, not as much as Red Hat have been or other pure open source gates in the past
before IBM bought them, let's put it this way.
But they have a legacy of contributing to your open source.
Yes, but they also have a large amount of proprietary products themselves, right?
Absolutely.
They seem to be, I don't know, from professional engagements, not really pushing those anymore
and they're almost like they've become a hard work vendor again and just happy to run
many, anything, open source on there, even though they have DB2 and all the other two
stuff.
They do a little bit of software here and there, right?
Apart from Watson and a great kid that is.
Yes.
Yeah, I mean, that has been covered by the press recently, apparently there's something
called global technology services inside IBM and this is mostly, I think, if current
numbers or press release are anything to go by or the stuff you read in the press,
anyway, apparently a thing of the past because they're slowly dismantling this.
I mean, it's hard to see where IBM is going in general because clearly, much of their
revenue is coming from hardware and things like Watson never really were that commercial
breakthrough.
I mean, far enough for credit to them, they were one of the first companies to make quantum
computing publicly accessible at a fee and at a discounted fee for educational purposes,
but D-wave and friends are just taking away the, are just taking away the revenue in terms
of they made money with this and IBM probably doesn't in the greatest scheme of things.
Oh, yeah, I'm not afraid with IBM's balance books, but I suspect they're making some money.
Well, I'd be happy if you could listen if you want to get touched for some almost free
advice.
The email address is feedback at the links in the last time you just send away all the
things that we get to touch, send sponsorship, yep, all these things are allowed and available.
And yes, we are cheap.
Well, we're cheap.
We're cheap.
We're cheap.
I've already found.
Yeah.
Uh, on a related object.
So what is the next Linux acquisition going to be?
This is a future question, obviously, what do you find Linux acquisition?
I mean, Linux.
Well, and so, um, no, not Linux buying stuff, but so my focus bought Susie Redhead was bought
by IBM or whatever it is.
And so there's not many, what about canonical, where are they going next?
Who's going to buy them?
Well, there has been that vicious rumor on the block for at least three or four years
now that actually Microsoft will make a graph for this.
I think they're trying it with street voice, but it's hard to imagine, right?
I mean, fair enough, they did a lot of collaboration on something called WSL, because for example,
you want to was actually the first personality for one of our, sorry, distribution to be to
use the correct.
Um, I'm sure you're that actually was running on WSL version one, apparently now a question
of it.
Do you do anybody who runs WSL?
Well, yes, I do.
You do?
Okay.
I do.
Yes.
Are they very happy with it?
Well, it's, let's put it this way.
It's okay.
And why?
Why?
Because it runs on Windows, and that's probably the best sub-system from a Linux perspective
that you can get, because Sikwin only goes so far in front.
Unless you want to put a VM or want to use Docker, an interplay, I want to use Docker or
something.
I mean, the beauty is with WSL 2.0, you actually have a little kernel, a full unit, a little
kernel, you're disposal.
Well, my performance is better.
And yes, of course, just pick the distribution of your choice.
It doesn't have to be a window anymore.
Just take a look at the, yeah, the window store.
I just don't get it.
Why would you do this?
I still haven't found the use case for running WSL.
I'm just going to crack open another can there.
Sorry.
It is your end.
So we just, we just might have a little bit, no, it's, it's quite so far.
But if people, I just take a look at your ordinary corporate developer, that's what you
want to do on with the lockdown PC, I mean, that's exactly what I'm going to allow to install
to be a seller.
I mean, they get the images from corporate, for an enough, these images would be, have
the guests exactly windows.
Now they have to deploy, they have to deploy in production, and for, of course, on the
Linux basis, because this is what these hipsters from DevOps basically tell them that, no,
seriously, that, no, sorry, you cannot deploy on Windows anymore, because we just did
away with these few remaining Windows servers in production.
So if the new quit on the block for the last one, 20 plus, well, well, not 20, but let's
say, seven to 10 years.
Well, it is a little bit of a tip for you as, as probably some of our listeners knows,
no, sorry, I wasn't plot by somebody, by company called Verizon Pruselina, I wasn't
judge of funny enough hosting, selling hosting environments on an eBIA basis.
And so I had access to cloud figures, Verizon had the share, had the fashion of cloud products,
emerging from virtual public clouds right up to infrastructure as a server and all the
rest of it.
So while I was working there, I had insight into the government figures, and there was
only one direction for Windows Server deployments, and that was downwards rapidly.
So in the other side, Linux was just going up, was going through the roof.
So the thing is going back to this, to this, to this image question, if you have no other
choice than either using Docker, a VM, or WSL, you probably go for the easiest solution.
Funny enough, on the Windows, I reckon that will be WSL, because it comes with the operating
system, getting it up and running in contrast to what's it called, virtual box in front,
sorry, it's just a breeze, and off you go.
And as I said, it's, you don't have to install it, it's there, you just have to pick the
best off your choice, and then you have a full Linux user that as you, at your disposal.
No, sorry, it's not for me.
Hang on, hang on, hang on Martin, you are not working at a company that has corporate
images, right?
Well, company has corporate images and expectations developed from Linux, you probably
provide the developers with appropriate equipment, get them to mess around with Windows,
but if the IT plays along, but you see, I mean, just take your ordinary 2122 company, these
companies like General Electric Siemens and all the rest of them, I mean, either you give
a developer a separate laptop that runs the looks, but that does not access to the corporate
network, good luck with that, or you give it a hard image that is normally a desktop image,
which of course is Windows-based, the call is yours.
Oh, I don't know, I see quite a lot of Macs these days, but I'm going to wait a year.
Sorry, I'm working at the amongst the site.
Exactly, you're working at this SIPSA startup that pedals GPU databases, I mean, come on,
this is not your Tijuana tier 2 company with 100,000 plus employees, there is a difference.
Yeah, I suspect they move a little bit slower, don't they?
Classity would be what at the very top of their concern list, I suppose.
And this is the reason, basically, what I'm talking about.
Are you saying that Linux is not secure?
No, no, no, the stuff that I'm saying is actually they have access to Windows components
and can harden their own images.
Now, if they would do the same for Linux, they would have two platforms to support.
That's not much sense from commercial perspective, does it?
There's just a reason why they're going normally for Windows.
Well, then they have to support the W'self for Windows, don't they?
Anyway.
Oh, I think so.
Yeah, just don't do it, just forget about W as well.
Microsoft.
No, you want to get, if you want to get in touch about Sponsor-Mobile.
Mike, Mike, I like all of it.
The email address is feedback at Linux in our study, you know, we should actually create
a corporate sponsoring email address for that, for all the other inquiries we get.
Yes, yes.
Much easier to deal with the inbox.
So let's create what you call it, Martin.
Cash at Linux in our study, you know.
Okay, yeah, that's got in touch with our team operation support, so that they can do it.
I have you fired them already.
Martin has a little bit of, he's complaining about the number of tickets and stuff for my
office.
Martin, Martin has a little bit of full-discretion, Martin has a little bit of a
bit of fire, of some cling fire in the power, but if they don't play along, oh, this is
that prerogative, but no worries, I keep hiring them back, so that's a big deal.
Okay, on to the next subject, so yes, so probably, Microsoft, Microsoft Vomiby, Kanoniko,
that would be my take on the situation.
Well, if they haven't done it in the last three or four years, then, yeah, what has changed
right, in the time for them to do so, however, they are, being etched out lately, Microsoft
Vomiby.
Yes, and all right, I mean, it's funny enough, they get into them more and more, right?
I mean, the surface, light of computers, I think they do a thing called Xbox, if I'm
a company, the mistake, that is white, so after two, exactly, what's called five or
something, right?
I'm not a gamer.
So, for the children on play, I station, sorry, you go.
So what's the latest play, what's the latest Xbox, then, as a series, X or S, right?
Okay, and that has your usual 10 CPUs, 15 GPUs, and a couple of SSEs, but no, I mean,
seriously, the first couple of Xbox, look at the spec, they were quite impressive.
Yep.
Yeah.
I don't reckon they have a change.
Hardware indeed.
Well, they're also not cheap, right, and this is how much, how much do the cost he says,
as I said, I don't play it all, so I don't know what they're costing euros, but if you
can find one, there are five, six on the pound, I think, there's a lot of regions.
And what is that in real money?
And you know, so probably cover down there.
Nice one, Martin.
Kids, don't worry.
In the future, just get them from the UK, if Microsoft hasn't, it hasn't coped onto
the, to convert it, which will go through the floor, this one, I'm looking forward.
Once Brexit has hit, because, as we all know, in about three years' time, I will buy
the UK for its pack, I suppose, but that's a different subject.
Excellent.
Maybe two six, I don't know, anyway, it doesn't matter.
Just add, add the collection of all of them.
Exactly.
Okay.
If you're listening, what's his name?
Don't, I don't know.
And sorry, Brian Johnson, if you're listening, don't.
No, just simply don't.
There's no point.
You see, we only want real money, not pound.
That's okay.
Anyway.
Right.
Okay.
Next subject, I think.
Yes, we've talked about that.
The next subject.
Right.
This is one for you.
I think that's more mainframe stuff.
So I think that's more for the old people amongst us.
So what's the question then?
Something about Linux 1 saving the mainframe.
I thought you just made a claim that the mainframe didn't need saving because nobody touched it anyway.
Well, I reckon, the question is almost half-answered, right?
The first time a full destroyer that's about four years back, maybe three years,
when I first locked into a Linux one system.
Actually, you can get them for free for a period of time.
Just check out the amount of full destroyer.
Just check out the one I'll be a website.
You already need isn't account in a mobile number.
Once you have this, you have access to, I think, 30 days of a two core main,
which last mainframe partition.
Running a user land of your choice, that would include Ubuntu Red Hat and the usual suspects.
If you, I mean, the first time I checked this out, and I reckon it hasn't changed much,
it looked like an ordinary Linux.
There was no tangible difference.
As a matter of fact, I gave a presentation at an open source conference about two years ago,
where I ported something called Redis.
Some people may be familiar with it in memory, no SQL database.
On a Linux one system running Red Hat in about 45 seconds,
because all I had to do was clone the GitHub repo and simply compile it.
And then it worked out of the box like a charm.
There was no difference between OSX in that case, the OSX experience for Redis,
or any other Linux interbased, or even ARM based.
You just put it down, you compile it, it works.
Only much, much, much, much more performance, sorry, much, much faster.
Let's see what I'm looking for.
Because you have about 50 years of engineering expertise at your fingertips.
Give or take a few.
Right, so this hardware.
Well, you see, if that stuff wasn't so damn expensive, I would have for myself.
But you're looking at, I think, entry-level at least.
These kind of black, black, black, cupboards.
You're looking at one digit or something.
That kid doesn't come cheap, but it's called Z-series, system Z, or Z-series.
Or whatever the current name is for a reason.
These machines don't have any downtime.
Hence the notion zero, as in zero downtime.
You just flip them on.
No, Linux one is, I don't know, it's probably marketing term.
I don't know.
Maybe it's the first Linux, real Linux system ported to mainframe
and running all the box without a little bit of carotemporary.
I don't know.
Ask IBM.
Okay, right.
I'm sure a lot of our open source listeners will be talking to IBM.
It's specifically about red hats, but not by mainframe.
Okay.
Cool.
So.
Here's a question for you.
Okay.
Yes.
Will SkyNet become Nvidia once again, Martin?
What do you think?
Given the fact that you own Nvidia kit?
Why once again, they are they.
Well, for ever, listen,
one and the same already or have everything.
For for for for our ever.
Listeners, of course, I don't need to blame that because,
but for those people who don't miss that episode in March, I think it was.
And as we all know,
SkyNet came out of Nvidia.
The question is actually will SkyNet.
Share its evil.
What's the one I'm looking for?
Maybe you'll reveal it.
Tell what we say.
No.
No.
Will SkyNet share its evil shell and become just a proprietary hardware vendor again.
But they are proprietary hardware.
SkyNet.
No, SkyNet is some evil AI.
I really will plan it.
You got this wrong here.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I mean, if you if if we are talking about what do you call those?
So there's people that aspire to rule the world.
Donald Trump.
No.
What do they have?
They have a name.
For the social button visitor is not a revolutionary revolutionary slash word.
Dominator.
Do you know the nature?
No.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a dictatorship is more of a country, isn't it?
But there are these people that try to rule the world also.
Okay.
Global dictator.
That will do.
That will do.
Yeah.
There's a few of those aspiring to the job partner.
My Trump has failed.
That chap in North Korea has clearly failed.
Yeah.
Well, they're clearly doing it wrong because they're doing it through politics where she must
better doing it through software or hardware.
They don't say I'm caught on.
Donald, if you're listening, stop tweeting and sending me to feedback.
You need some advice in case you need some advice.
Exactly how to swing back any kind of swing state or whatever.
Just get in touch.
We can probably sort you out.
Maybe not.
Indeed.
Anyway, so going back to global dictators.
Right.
So we have.
Who do we have?
We have the weirdo from Tesla.
What's his name?
Elon Musk.
Yes.
Then we have obviously our friend from Amazon.
Of course, there's also Nicholas Tesla, but I think he's dead.
Yes.
He's definitely dead.
Yeah.
Well, unless he invented the time travel at the same time, but who knows, right?
He's not going to tell anybody.
What are we?
So yes.
We have a bloody near Putin.
Comes to mind.
No, he's in politics.
He's going to fail there.
You have to be here.
You think so.
Okay.
You have to be in hardware or software or bookshops or stuff like that.
Right.
So we have Elon Musk, Bob Bezos, and then there's obviously our friend from SkyNet, Jensen
Huang.
Well, so we got.
Where do you know more than I do more than I do?
So yeah, there's kind of, you know, who out of those three is going to be the global dictator?
Do you reckon?
None, I suppose.
None.
None.
Okay.
Why?
I mean, Bezos.
Sorry.
Bezos.
Bezos.
Sorry, Bezos.
Bezos.
Sorry.
Bezos.
I don't know.
Where does this thing come from?
If you're listening, can you tell us right now?
Griffin's struggling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What does Bezos even come from?
It's Greek name or something?
This is the Greeks again.
Hang on a minute.
I don't know.
Maybe you can deploy a search engine of your trust mine and find out what I'm rambling on.
I thought he wasn't married.
Well, yes, bye, bye, bye, bye, birth.
But the name clearly is not.
It's not.
I mean, that is not his actual name.
There we go.
What?
His actual name is Jürgensen.
You don't make it.
Is that right?
No.
It's serious.
I'm sorry.
Jeff Jürgensen.
It doesn't look jammed though.
Or Danish or whatever.
Well, I mean, lots of people.
How do these.
Why did he?
Why did he.
Why did he?
Why did he.
Why did he rename himself?
Oh, yeah, we see decided.
Oh, I need to.
He heard about next to us.
I'm going to be Bezos.
Instead.
Oh, fucking.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, fuck.
Jeff, if you're listening, let's hit feedback.
Let's hit lost.
Why did you change your name, Jürgensen?
Yes.
And this comes from a repetitive resource like Wikipedia or something?
Indeed, indeed.
Unless you hacked it in the meantime.
I did not.
Okay.
I was interfere with repetitive sources like Wikipedia.
Why should I.
I mean, the most I would do if I, if I, if I choose to do so, what would hack away
there?
They're, they're, they're, they're a pledge banner.
Ah, okay, okay.
I don't know.
It's because his parents, his mother was married twice.
And so his stepfather is a Mike Bezos.
There you go.
And that doesn't have the question where Bezos comes from.
Isn't the name Douglas.
It's Mexican.
Mexican.
Cuban.
Cuban.
Sorry, Cuban.
Cuban.
There we go.
So not less.
No wonder Trump.
Trump hates him because he's an immigrant.
So.
Majority also has a lot more money than Trump.
Well, and people are not exactly Trump friendly.
Let's put it this way.
Washington Post comes to mind, of course.
And.
Yes.
So.
Okay.
So what do you, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk have in common?
Money.
Lots of it.
Apart from that.
It's certain.
Okay.
Apart from the desire to rule the world as well, they have another desire.
Drive.
Comes to mind.
I'm sure you don't.
But yeah.
That's what I meant.
It's referring to the fact that.
There is.
There is.
There is.
There is.
There is no such thing as drifty in the English language if I'm completely missing.
So.
I'm.
This is one.
Full disclaimer.
This is one of the few occasions where I'm actually lost for words.
Doesn't happen.
But often.
Indeed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm.
No, I mean, they have a certain kind of ambition.
Let's put it this way.
Yes.
We should.
What are we?
We should be.
Right.
But we should.
We should be.
Both.
Both.
Let's say.
No.
Because of that.
I mean, the first.
The first.
The first wife took away how many millions?
How many billions?
Point points.
Something.
I don't.
I don't read those kind of newspapers.
Hello, magazine.
Whatever it is.
I'm sure it's a big repeatedly.
Just look it up.
Okay.
So.
I mean.
people for all these billionaires want to be out there don't get married. If you do get married
if you make that fatal mistake just have a prenup in place. Very important. It doesn't
mean that. Something that is watertight that cannot be kind of argued about in the quarter
of law. Because if you're married, this is important for all these people out there. For all
the billionaires amongst our listeners. So I mean the bottom line is if you then make that
fatal mistake of getting married just make sure that the prenup is watertight so you're
not taking a part in the quarter of law should you get actually get a divorce. This is the
important bit. Of course that all saves you if you don't get married in the first days.
Well yes and no. If you have 180 billion anyway then does it matter if you do is 19 and what you're
going to do with it. Yeah so okay so you still have 90 billion or whatever it is. So the bottom
rise of course we just have to buy a more at Amazon. This is just buy more because Jeff Bezos is
in dire need of cash. Yes yes yes. Okay so this prediction for 2021 who out of those three is
going to be the most matters global dictator. Nobody because they won't rule. Well maybe Bezos
through Amazon but I'm not too sure because I mean you heard about the French protests right?
Yesterday or whenever it was. French protests. Oh they're protesting every day. It's nothing.
It was special. People to the streets in France because more and more people are just buying
online and they are afraid that all the local shops in the current lockdown. We recorded this
kind of late November early December. We'll simply disappear and of course they have a point.
You just have to take a look at the numbers. Amazon is hiring people in in in in chose.
Mm-hmm. There's a French sorry there's a company. What was it? I think in March or April or
something like this maybe maybe May. Look it up people. Has announced they would be they would
be creating at 100,000 jobs or a somewhat similar region within the next month.
In which country? Globally. Globally that's not that much. That's a huge number.
Well not if you're all paying them 2 p an hour and probably not too worried I think.
They don't because the majority of the countries where Amazon is spreading the things have
many more wages. Germany, UK as well as the US comes to mind.
Mm-hmm. Yes that's one point. The are far Eastern Amazon has no such thing but anyway.
Yeah so you say none of them. Okay. Bezos may have a slim chance to maybe get close
but apart from that that's it I suppose. Mm-hmm. What about this Richard guy running this
GPU database outfit? Why doesn't he feature on this list too small? No we have a four-year plan
number one. Richard if you're listening if you want to send cash don't give it to Martin just get
in touch. Cash at little looks in last year. Oh why were we talking on this subject?
Our Yiftach and offer listening to this. I suppose not the latest that's what I heard.
Then may of course change with the recent itama episode if you yes this is series one episode 19
Itama reveals it all especially why he wanted to become a mermaid.
The important bit. Mm-hmm. If there's three episodes on the last year this is one of them
that you're going to listen to. Yes sorry we were on the subject of it though the question is
probably not. There are two busy with other things I suppose. Mm okay right so no chance of a
sport sponsorship there either then. Probably not. Okay unless Bricklet will be bought by
rather slaps. That would be yeah yeah not entirely. This is purely a subject of people we are not
insiders on that level anyway and we are certainly not out there to make a financial bargain.
Mm-hmm. At least not out there anyway. Place any bets on any of these conditions.
Exactly. Our advice. For this closure we are not responsible for what we say at all on this
podcast. And this is the legally binding statement. Yeah okay okay. Yes. Next question. Okay.
Yes Martin this is good for you. We're strong artificial intelligence finally prevail
and make the jump to mainstream. Well it depends what you call mainstream but it is already
amongst many households in various forms right. We have our electors, we have our other devices,
we have our testers etc. Is this really powered by AI? I mean kind of you see the thing is the
little guy sitting on the other window. No, no, no, no, hang on. The clue is actually in the term
with strong artificial intelligence. I'm not talking about week. Okay. Like the stuff that is
domain specific like the stuff that just recognize pattern essentially. Strong AI in contrast to this
would have eventually the ability to form something called a conscience. And what is that thing?
GTP 183 years on their system? Not half a space but what's the movie I'm looking for?
Not Sam but hang on. The one with the with the with the with the computer and it's a classic
Martin. Happy hour. No. How? Yes. How's the computer's name?
Because it's actually in the in the acronym IBM of course.
And the and the movie and the name of the movie was not sub-a-space but deep space no
2001 space or does he? Yes. Thank you. That was it. And this is what I would consider
to be almost a strong AI. Yeah, but you know the confessional AI thing.
Eliza? No, no, no. You're not familiar with that one. I do not know. In Latin America.
Okay, you're behind the lines. It's a pretty. I'm just a humble. I'm just a humble
three and open source slash operating system north. I'm always behind the times. Even if I am
wearing my hips a beard. Right. You're not? No. I'm not. What happened? You're no longer a hipster.
Oh, you're giving up on the hips to dumb. No, the breeders history, but it has been for the last 40 plus
years, but that's a different story. Anyway, carry on. Okay. Right. So, anyway, open AI familiar with them.
They're open. Yeah. No, it doesn't. It doesn't bring about it. Do you please to explain?
Okay. Anyway, they made some impressive stuff with GPT-3, which is short for gender,
pre-trained transformer, by the way. But this is a piece of software that is can be considered
to be a next generation, because it can lie, it can make jokes, these kind of things, right?
And when it chooses to not because it's a program to do it on a certain occasion. So, you can have
a decent conversation with someone. So, this is like a GM, a generative adversarial network.
It is really a language model. Anyway, probably a subject of a whole different episode.
A language model is domain-specific. Why would that be strong AI, I wonder?
No, no, no, no. Why is language language domain-specific?
Because it's called context-free. It's context-specific.
You are a leading language. No, it's not context-specific.
Good language is very good. Language is domain, and a conscience is not necessarily
on the languages. The domain language is a communication mechanism.
Yes, but a conscience is not necessarily bound to language.
No, but it's a way to express it. It's a bit difficult for people to read those minds.
Yes, but it's a telepathy. It's not expressed in English or Chinese or German for that matter.
You just read people's minds. That's the way it works.
And this is what I would consider to be not close, but almost there.
In terms of you have a conscience, you know, you can drive conclusions without
the domain at hand. You're able to learn beyond the domain.
You develop a conscience, you probably know what's good, what's bad,
you're specific backyard, of course, because as we all know, probably the mafia and the
FBI have different notions of what's good and bad, but they all have conscience.
Did this? Yes, of course they do.
No, that's the good FBI unconscious.
That reminds me to be seen, but you see that this is faithfully.
Well, we are talking about that, right?
About your conscience.
Well, and humans do have conscience in contrast to certain animals who do not,
or which do not, however, because they're not people.
And this is what I mean, and this is what I mean by strong AI.
As long as it certainly has the ability to draw conclusions
beyond a specific domain for which they have been trained for,
like the point is that GPT-3 is trained on 175 billion parameters and there's everything about
everything. Okay.
And can lie and can make jokes and stuff. So both with looking at, I would just
say, we are close in that case.
It's quite impressive if you compare to what we've seen so far from the likes of Deep Speech.
A whole different matter.
And that runs on different GPU tabs, too, not just Nvidia?
Oh, I don't know what it runs on, but
you find it on the shelf.
Fun fact, the technology has been licensed to Microsoft.
I mean, lying is challenging for this built-in dimension.
I mean, lying goes a long way, right? I mean, you're almost there in that case.
Well, mainly choosing when to and not as well, right?
Well, this is what we're getting.
This is where we're close to for an art, because humans have been perfecting this for at least
the last 100,000 years. Give or take a few.
This is where we come from.
This is all this social interaction and stuff.
Independent, I might add.
Independent, I might add, of cultural heritage and background.
Indeed.
Facial expressions and all the rest of it.
Social engineering works in different languages, too.
I mean, and if we have a, if I have something that comes close, yes,
I would consider to be the big, the next big thing in strong artificial intelligence.
Yeah, it's with, yeah, yeah, look here.
Okay, so make sure you don't have to mainstream.
Okay, if we're talking about strongly, I'm probably not mainstream yet.
Next year, but it's certainly within the next five years.
Okay, I have a question for you as well.
Go ahead.
What happened to Docker and Kubernetes?
Others, I suppose they are, however, do we think that people will actually start using this
purpose, specifically Kubernetes, right?
Yeah, I mean, just take a look at any hipster or non-hipster dev-up
team that doesn't use containers.
I mean, if you're, if you're students about cloud,
chances are you are using containers.
So Docker's world hasn't made it.
So it's, so, so Kubernetes has clearly won the game and OpenShift and Rancher and your name it indeed.
Well, sorry, OpenShift and Rancher, what about them?
They are not quite as popular as Kubernetes, right?
I would reckon, I mean, if you're right, I'd shop there, it goes the other way around.
I mean, the, the jury is allowed on, on, on, on kind of generic as in vanilla Kubernetes,
as in the likes of GKE and stuff, as in Google Kubernetes engine,
and OpenShift, but I reckon, if you're, if you're an OpenShift chop, sorry, if you're,
if you're at a chop, you will be using OpenShift.
And if you are anywhere near clouds, containers are your deployment method of choice,
even on-prem or hybrid environments, if you're not running on a mainframe for Docker,
probably will have some containerized element in it when it comes down to deployments.
Yeah, yeah, that's agreed on that, but it's just that, so the main question I think around as
one is that, yes, Docker is there for a lot of pieces of the application, but I've still yet
to see organizations adopting Kubernetes in full capacity, right? It's just tends to be sort of
limited to do pieces of applications and, no, it's like that. As a matter of fact, I know
fully disclosure, one of Mojabe's is working as a solution architect for a complicated
release labs. And in that capacity, I do come across a lot of customers,
slash prospects, who are looking for a no-cycle database, fitting their needs, and the majority of
them who are just in the process of re-architecting the application landscape are serious about
microservices. And guess what? 11 out of 10 would be going for containers.
11 out of 10. Indeed, Mark, 11 out of 10.
Are they going for containers? 110 percent?
If not more, yes. Indeed. And fun enough whether cloud or not, because
swarm didn't make it, Kubernetes would be the orchestration for a block of tries for them.
Because A, it runs on any platform you can think of, and the distribution specificings
like OpenShift come with your platform of choice that you have in production anyway.
Redhead, of course, comes to mind. Simple. So it's not a question of if but rather when.
If you haven't done this already. Yeah, I mean, some stats on this, but
Martin, just break into NET2, NET1 company on this planet, check out the deployments and you'll
be amazed. Just don't get caught. I'm just saying. Okay, that's a handy tip of from the
full disclaimer, kids. Even if you're a trained professional, do not break into other people's
systems. They do not like this. Very important.
Important advice here. Yes, listen to grandad Chris here.
Talking of all chats, right?
Are they going to turn up one day or
funny? No, Martin, full disclosure. They are younger than us.
Both of them. Really? Yes. Wow. They are.
Could have fooled me. Anyway, back on the
subject. Full disclosure, people in mind. Twenty-one.
All right, well, we're talking in a minute. Okay, so, okay, then following on from that,
I guess, is the whole cloud question?
Is anybody not going to have a cloud?
Cloud-only solution in 2020.
2020 is past. I mean, this is almost done. I mean, cloud is dead. I mean, there's no dispute about this,
so that's another tick-and-the-checkbox.
Check-and-the-tickbox. Yes, but are the likes of Microsoft and Google going to make any
progress into the bookshop? And if so, how?
Well, Microsoft is growing quicker than it's growing quick and absolute
numbers than the bookshop is. How's your number support?
Customers or? No, in terms of growth rate. Just take a look at the numbers. How are you measuring
this growth rate? In terms of new customers? Okay. Going on to the platform.
I mean, the bookshop has a couple of years to their advantage, but then Microsoft does have
their, it does have its enterprise sales force. Well, it has also had its right.
And teams. Well, you see teams in office was actually came after that enterprise sales force.
Well, office almost. But you see, the thing is Microsoft has it down to this kind of sales force
turned into, what's what I'm looking for? Sorry, Microsoft has down its enterprise sales force
down to find art in terms of selling it's the enterprise because they have been doing
details apart from their somewhat fledgling B2C business for the last 30 years.
If you go into any larger company on this planet, the desk chops normally run Windows.
And I'm talking about shops now be behind your kind of a couple of thousand employees.
I'm talking about the the tier one, two, three, four, five companies on this planet like
companies that have more than say 20 to 40,000 employees. I have yet to come across a company that
doesn't in that size that doesn't run Windows on their corporate desktops. Yeah.
So they have the sales force. And if the IT department is looking for
things. If they are already on the bookstore platform, just put them, just put the
migration strategy in in front of them, make the numbers juicy and they migrate.
Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to say to name if you companies that have gone that down,
down that route, but believe me, my guess would be that Microsoft would eat into a fair share
of the of the AWS revenue come 2021, 2022.
You already see this happening. I mean, just look at retail, best example. Why would I
fund the competition being a retailer? Amazon is eating into my core business, setting kit.
Why give them money? Simple question. Supermarkets, wholesale, the whole retail business,
a pair of whatever. Why host an Amazon?
The competition by doing this. I'd rather go to Amazon. I'm sorry, I'd rather go to Microsoft
because Microsoft is not in the business of setting food or a pair of something else.
They just send a ticket full stop. Maybe the odd hardware, but that's about it. Same goes to Google.
Google doesn't have a supermarket. Google doesn't sell a pearl. They power the people to do so.
And there's a difference between the marketplace and Amazon and Google just
auctioning at spaces. The marketplace, they all take revenue cuts. Don't get me wrong,
but a marketplace is an actual facilitator for a trade. The ads are just the first step.
And Google shouldn't make one mistake. Go down the Amazon route because they'll certainly
enter their into their cloud business. So it sounds like a bit of a Microsoft fan. Should we
um, Microsoft if you're living with, um, with Yiftach and Ofer? Oh, no, hang on, they've done
nobody, haven't they? Yes, indeed. What was the announcement again?
Redis Labs, if you want to sponsor us, the address is cash at Linux. Yeah, we're not doing
your item, I see. No, um, you can just spawn George in general. You cannot buy ads,
what I'm afraid, sorry, moving on to the next question, Martin. Apple M1, the beginning of the
end for Intel, that's an every interesting one, no? Oh, it's not just, uh, Apple, it's also, um,
the acquisition of ARM by Nvidia, right? So if you go ahead, Martin, um, spill the beans,
spill the beans, what beans? What, um, I mean, you envy, uh, so go ahead.
Well, you're, you know, I also have Intel, yeah, um, well, I know I'm not an ARM customer,
I just buy from companies who implemented the SOCs or I'm sorry, SOC designs, Father. Yeah,
anyway, so what was the question?
All right, and for Intel, yes, uh, well, for the slower among us,
I repeat the question there. Apple M1, the beginning of the end for Intel.
I seem to like me, right? I mean, um, I don't know what percentage of kit runs on Intel,
but it is a very large percentage, so not even the aforementioned cloud vendors,
uh, a large amount of their instance types are Intel, even though you, you see a lot more AMD
as well these days. So, yeah, interesting question. Um, it has been done before, I guess,
chip makers, skilled by the wayside, but, um, I don't think Apple's, uh, a few,
a handful of dodgy MacBooks is going to be going to make a huge impression. How many MacBooks do
you have on two? Uh, no, I'm, I'm back bound to one because the second one was no good,
Apple, if you're listening, your quality is shit.
If you want to change that statement, get your chat, I can't,
I can't, we can't redek this off course.
And we may not be extensive as you say. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Okay. Uh, no, my, my to send a,
you, yes, spot on. Okay. Um, the thing is the M1. I don't know if you've checked this out,
but the M1 has a lot of theoretical features. Yeah, it's a piece of engineering here.
For example, this neurological, something, SLC, portion, die, whatever.
The thing is, basically, uh, the specialized sub-processor have been run for ages,
SS2, um, sorry, SSE, SSE2, SSE, MM2 come to mind. It took the software manufacturers ages to
adopt this. There was a stillborn called Giselle by arm, as a matter of fact,
that was succeeded by, by something called thumb cell, I think, from a complete mistaken.
Essentially, the idea was behind these two designs to execute JVM instructions as in
Java version machine instructions natively. If you take a look at the largest arm platform
out there called Android, they don't use it. Simple. So hence the notion of a stillborn,
because the adoption simply didn't take place. They put it out there. You could buy the SSE
components as a license license them from arms, but only very few people did. Giselle was a thing
we leased in 2003, and damsel came to 2005 to 2006, but the adoption was very little if at all.
Same goes for this new M1 functionality, if the developers don't avail of this, what's the point?
Yes, but, um, I mean, this is Apple's only, uh, IP, right, it's not going to be available in
anything else then Apple. That's it. And it's restricted to max, to max exactly.
Or maybe, um, iPads, iPhones, whatever. But at the end of the day, we're looking at a desktop
share of single digits as something in the greatest scheme of things. Plus the fact that, of course,
Intel has much more at the disposal than just the desktop. Just take a look at the
recent shift into the server space. If you take a look at the investments, Xeon and Friends have
have come on very strong in comparison to what other, what's that architecture called iCore
something, right? As in the desktop processors, because clear, the future, especially, but what
just has, uh, has just said the future is cloud. So we all had this before, right?
If you go back, yes, to the mainframes, we had terminals. These days, it's actually Chromebooks
and the like, as in things lines that connect to the cloud. The parallel arm is still the same.
You have dumb clients in a vertical mass connecting to a very powerful processing unit.
Then it was the mainframe. Now it's other people's computers called the cloud.
So the principle hasn't changed. Just that technology has is slightly more advanced. Let's
split this way. But at the end of the day, I reckon the likes of Intel and AMD still have
a place and they will survive at all or not. It's just the matter of getting their innovation
cycle started. Indeed. I tell you something that's impressive about the M1 is its production process.
They do cool stuff, right? Well, it actually is five nanometer, which is very better than anything
Intel. Yeah. Plus, plus, plus the fact that apparently the memory between the different
SOC di-parts is interconnected. So the GPU can directly read from the memory that the CPU is
writing to without having to cross a bus or something like this as in an entire chip bus.
I mean, this is this is pretty cool because there's a lot of speed up.
Troubles, of course, it comes into varieties. You can buy either with 8 gigabytes of RAM or succeed.
You cannot extend the memory.
This is the drawback. 8 gigabytes.
At verse 16. Sorry, I'm talking about MacBook Pros now. As in 13 inch models that have just been
released in November. Yeah. I mean, if you take this apart as our photo these days,
if you take this apart, it doesn't look like a ordinary main board anymore. It's just a cup of
components brought together. So the stuff is really integrated and forget about extending this
manual or your device. You just can't. You buy the kit as it is or you just leave it.
Yeah, it's, it's quite impressive what they've done. But yeah, it's obviously only
limited. Plus the fact that yeah, that this kit doesn't come cheap. I checked out a 13 inch MacBook Pro
the overall over lunch today. 16 gig, 512 SSD sets you back to a hundred two to a hundred exactly
2,200 euros. And that's just a 13 inch model. Well, I won't be buying one. But Apple, if you
listening, feel free to send one and then we can. Yeah, the address is reviews. And if you send us
two, we will review this machine. No worries. Get touched. Okay. Okay. Apple and one. Yes.
Okay. What is the any major shakeups in the programming languages for next year? We think
not likely. I mean, Russ has clearly won, but that's given that's an own fact. What is the actual one?
What is one of the better?
Yes, yes, yes. To quote a friend of mine, if you see Java just run.
Hmm. That sounds like a solid piece of advice. I wonder who this friend is.
Anyway, that's the matter. No, I mean, what's your take on this Martin?
You're given the fact that you're still an old Java script programmer or whatever it was.
Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, I've seen some some article saying that we are a Python's growth is
slowing down and stuff like that. But, um, like what? Hmm? Like what? Well, dark.
No, no, no, no, no. Python. Let's talk about Python. Sorry, you mentioned a program
language called that. No, I got this wrong. My old English language is failing. I mean,
the GPT-3 trained model to replace. Please repeat.
Well, okay. So, yeah, no, um, okay. What I was saying was that we see, I have seen a few mentions
about Python becoming a little bit too mainstream and this growth is slowing down and things
like that. But personally, I haven't seen any evidence of that from the people and customers
I talk to. Now, someone keeps going on about Rust, but yeah, C++ is quite a few people.
Okay, two ones, then not one, but two. Some two. Okay, but yeah, C++ is still, yeah, driving
to that of low latency high performance applications. But you see, even Microsoft, yes,
Microsoft indeed. There was a talk. Are you sure? No, neither Mark,
I don't want to know, but Microsoft shows his things. No, there wasn't a conference in Mayo,
June or something where Microsoft talked about Rust and it's clearly their next big thing in
contrast to C++, which apparently is on the way out after having been the workhorse at Microsoft
for at least 20 years. Well, we did the interview with someone from C++, someone from Rust.
I think what I recall is that C++ is not going anywhere, but yeah, anytime soon.
I mean, it still has its place on get me wrong, but there are new technologies out there,
which are clearly more fitting for some use cases. Yes, but if we come out 2021,
then do we think anything will change in that in the years time programming language adoption?
2021, yes, 2021 programming languages. I don't think much will change. Where is Rust on the list
of programming languages? Fastest growing programming language in popularity globally.
Fastest growing. If she'll be, as in the already the importance of being earnest,
other programming languages, programming language indexes anything to go by.
Okay, it used to be Python, but I think now it's Rust.
Yes, but that doesn't mean, okay, it's fastest growing, but where is it on the list of being actually
being used to it? I've written Rust is now on the top 20, I think. Python, I think, is
place number two or three or something? I put the likes of C that have been around for 50 years now.
I mean, if I take a look at the GitHub code base, I mean, the whole thing, the whole
I mean, a good chunk would still be written in C. Never mind, sorry?
Which code base? Sorry. I'll GitHub. I'll GitHub myself, as in the complete code base,
as in lots of code that is out there. I reckon the majority would be still written in C.
You think? I mean, never mind our favorite operating system.
Yeah. You will not find any C++ code in the Linux kernel.
You will, of course, find a Rust crate to facilitate Linux kernel modules. We spoke about this earlier,
this year, but if a chat called Linux Turbo, it says anything is any who, whatever.
To go by, that would be the next language of choice in a couple of years time for production use.
That doesn't necessarily mean that eventually the whole kernel will be rewritten in Rust. No,
that's not correct, because you're looking at way too many main years that have been put into
this code base, but you will see certain portions of, especially drivers being coded in Rust
going forward. It will take time, no doubt about that. That doesn't necessarily mean that the days
of C in the kernel are numbered, because that's just too much.
C out there in terms of the overall lines of code in the kernel, but Rust will start to make an
appearance that would be in my take on the overall situation. Yeah, it's actually in the
stack, I've changed developer survey in terms of
being below quite a few other ones, but these are on the list, at least.
It's over to Scala. There we go. Where are we? Yes.
The next question on the Oliom's part in this would be, will it snap indeed conquer the world?
You mean Snapchat? Is that not for? No, snap snaps in terms of the canonical distribution
format for packages. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Well, if you're using canonical, then yeah.
Sorry, you're not using canonical, probably you would be using Ubuntu.
Hmm.
I have a question for you.
That's canonical. You are something.
For your information, what's the most loved problem in language?
I think we moved on...
No, we haven't.
I think we have.
We have learned.
Okay, let's officially conclude this unchecked.
Oh, wow. The Java isn't the most dreaded problem in language. How did that happen?
Anyway. What is that? I mean, what happened?
Who to go, which language to go with?
That was the fastest there.
Okay, even the problem in language, I don't know.
Yeah. I thought it was a macro, something.
Yeah.
Oh, who is that guy who did Pearl?
Larry Wall.
Hmm. No, there was, um, hard interview that we did.
The guy who invented Pearl was, is called Larry Wall.
Yeah, yeah, no, the guy who, um, he worked on the Pearl Project for a lot of his time.
We did interview with him earlier this year.
Rangel Schwartz, but he didn't invent Pearl.
No, I didn't say he meant Pearl.
I don't know. I think I'll miss that.
I certainly will, Martin.
Anyway, yeah.
We should have asked him why Pearl is number three on the most dreaded problem in language.
It's probably old age and non-clature in terms of expressiveness.
Okay, moving on.
Little programming languages.
No, I mean, you remember the conundrum about canonical issue,
more and more software chromium, of course, comes to mind as snaps.
Plus the fact that snaps actually, and this is something that probably not that many people know,
requires a working at armor these days.
I don't know when canonical move, but my suspicion is at least 20 or four, if not before,
as then the, what a, what's called focal fossil, something like this?
Yes, focal fossil.
If you disable or remove app armor,
snaps won't necessarily work anymore.
As you see, this is the interesting bit because essentially, you're coupling previously
independent independent modules together.
So you're introducing a dependency that is not necessarily that is not necessary quite.
And this is what I see as an issue because Linux nevermind, free and open-source software,
in general, is all about choice.
So by moving in direct, into that direction, and this is what you see in the community,
and this is what you see on many discussions, and many and many block entries and so forth,
you're forcing a policy upon the community, and that is met by objection, which I totally
understand, because this is not necessarily about freedom anymore. I mean, if you have,
to have a working at armor, if you want to run snaps, that's a major thing.
Yeah, because if you choose as a Linux over app armor, good luck with that,
because these two frameworks do not play along well.
So by using snaps, you are essentially, if you're using a recent, if you're using a recent,
you're going to distribution, you are far smaller as to resort to app armor.
That limits your freedom. Same goes for the tie-in of GNOME and system D.
But then you could always install the non-snap version of whichever software you wanted to read.
Of course, yes, that's always your way out.
During prediction, how many people will still be using the snaps, indeed, okay?
Yes, I mean, how many people will in that case choose to move off? You want to?
Good question. I mean, the same goes for GNOME and system D.
I mean, GNOME now relies on something called the login demon coming from system D.
No wonder KDE has a field day about propagating themselves or promoting themselves
as the platform independent choice of desktop, because they run on BSD, they run on Linux,
they run on any open source software that is pretty much co-posed compliant.
Whereas GNOME requires these days the login D functionality coming from system D.
Okay, so what did they make this move?
Get in touch with GNOME at redhead.com or something?
I mean, it was their choice. It's a project decision, but I cannot follow this because it limits
the variety of operating systems you can use.
The technical reasoning behind this might be perfectly viable, but this is not about
free anymore. This is about limiting your choices if you ask me.
Yeah, no. Well, let's choose a different Linux distribution.
Did you have any ones you could recommend to the listeners?
Arch comes to mind. Arch of course uses system D.
It says a beautifully maintained piece of Linux.
Absolutely. Well, there's still links from scratch and gen 2, of course.
And of course you can. Yeah, what's your experience with Gen 2?
I've never used it to be honest with you.
I talked around with the idea of actually going the links from scratch route down, down,
down, but then something else called life happened in between and Linux from scratch is not
for the faint hearted because what you're doing essentially, you are taking one machine,
you're taking a second machine, and then you are building your system using the first machine
for the second machine. As in compiling the kernel, compiling every page in every packet
on that first machine to be deployed on that second machine, then of course gives you
a system that is completely due to your needs at the expense of a pretty steep learning curve
because essentially what you have to do, you have to bootstrap the second machine using the first
machine. So that requires on the first machine at least a working Linux system, including GCC and
all the rest of the tools that you need and needs to compile the kernel and initial user land.
For somebody who is new to Linux, I wouldn't necessarily recommend that that that that
drew because as I said, the learning curve is quite steep. Yeah, but if you've mastered this,
you know what this crack is all about because you at that stage, you know in Linux inside out.
Especially the build process. Yeah, I think it's for a step, it's for a step would to be
to go to something like Gentures, you say, to before you go that far, right?
I mean, Genture has at least the advantage of a rudimentary package management management system.
If I'm completely mistaken, the stuff is, you can't get some of the package pre-compiled.
I think it was for Genture. Check out the merge that would be the package management of
choice in Genture for a complete mistake. Yeah, the Genture specialist plan for May,
that means that Martin has between now and May or April to read upon it.
Hey, I mean, I thought you were the operating system guy.
Martin, it's called your education. This is the important bit.
All right. Well, next thing, you know, you're going to advise me to use the WSL for Windows again.
I'm not sure I should be. Well, why don't you want one up off your many windows?
She needs to check it out. I have. It's useless. Anyway.
Oh dear. Moving on from the Microsoft slaying. Okay. Right.
The, oh, okay. So the next question is actually we should have done this one.
We were talking about cloud, but is open-court a solution?
I reckon. Okay. The solution to which problem? Yes. It's late now.
And now not as drunk as I plan to be so. The answer to that is someone philosophical.
I mean, I reckon it depends on where you draw the line, right? In terms of, I mean,
well, okay. First of all, is it the solution to your question? You put the question in.
I think. No, that was not your, this was your question.
So the jury's allowed a question. Okay. Let's define open-court first for the, for, for, for, for the
relationship who's not familiar with the terms. Are you open-court? Yep. Let's go for it.
Opponent? Okay. Okay. Okay. It's taking an open source project, which is the, the fundamental,
well, fundamental. The majority of the functionality lives there, as in the word core, the
center of its software is open-source, surrounded by non-open source components like
a lot of companies adopt to deal with extra feature or monitoring or stuff around it to sell
to be able to sell it. Otherwise it would just be an open source project. So OpenCore Redis
is one of these examples. There are many more of course. Redis Labs would be an OpenCore
company to be precise, yes. Actually, the enterprise DB is not an OpenCore company because
database is actually a, not a clone. It's not, it's the word. I think that they made up.
No, no, no, what's the word? It's a fork.
A fork, thank you. Thank you. You're welcome, Martin.
Not a knife, a fork. It's a fork of first-class. So yeah, so that's no longer an OpenCore
company or product. Similar to Red Hat which of course is not an OpenCore company but rather
a full-learn OpenSource company. Yes. Well, no, they have not all their components are OpenSource
aren't they? No, they're one. Well, what you call it, OpenShift, for example.
OpenShift is OpenSource. There is an OpenShift version of OpenShift, yes, but that's not the same
as the Red Hat version of OpenShift. What? OpenShift is OpenSource.
Yes, OpenSource project is, OpenShift project is OpenSource indeed, but OpenShift from Red Hat is
not the same version. It has more features. I thought I was, I mean, I thought that the code was,
was, was, I mean, centralized is the Red Hat code based OpenSource. There's no difference
between Red Hat and NcentOS. Apart from the support model and stuff, my understanding is that
OpenShift was pretty much the same. It's the Carbonitas amended by OpenSource components coming
from Red Hat. Are you sure about this? All right, last, what's last time I looked, which is
here we go, maybe about 20 years ago, yes. Oh, you're right. Ignoring this detail. Yes.
Okay, a full disclosure, the money has to come from somewhere. I see both sides of the coin.
Red Hat had been pretty successful of turning an OpenSource code base into an OpenSource business model,
but then their OpenCore company is like Red Slabs, like Confluent, you name them,
that have to high employees pay the bills too. So I see both sides of the coin. Yeah, there is
certainly market for a pure OpenSource company, like as I said, Red Hat, but OpenPore, of course,
is a viable business model, except for two, because like Confluent, like Red Hat Slabs,
the revenue that they make funds, an awful lot of OpenSource contributions, never mind
grass innovation there. And Greta is probably the best example, because it's an example,
but yes. The majority of the contribution to the OpenSource, of the contributions of the
OpenSource code base, these days, come from Red Slabs employees.
Yeah, so I mean, the alternative is obviously for, okay, so the model can be,
okay, you have an OpenSource project and as a company of a sport, right, which is what
do we do? Red Hat, that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then if you do this,
all you are doing is all your innovations, all your IP is OpenSource, and means that anybody can
use this, like, you know, the cloud vendors do. And so you have no, almost no added value yourself
anymore in terms of, you're just basically giving your IP away, aren't you? Unless you restrict this
with a certain licensing model. Creative, not Creative Commons, but
what the lessons have already done. Yeah, that is
the example. RedSlabs is what's called, red is soft.
Surveyable licensing. But there was a predecessor called Creative Commons, but
You're in a licensed car, you should know.
I don't.
I can't.
Okay.
All right.
Not to worry.
We'll be in the stoken of show notes.
Maybe.
Okay.
Yeah.
So of course,
but yeah,
as a company that is not selling proprietary software,
you have to do something right.
So open car being a good compromise there.
In the comments, comments clause, it was called.
Yes.
And controversy around it.
Yes.
About one and a half years ago, I suppose.
By the way, quite a few.
Open car companies went down that route.
Mongolia.
Yeah.
College space.
Credit labs.
Confluent.
Or come to mind.
Yep.
I'm just saying.
Well, they have to.
Well, I.
If you want to be a business, that is right.
I mean, as I said,
next cloud and.
In my opinion, red hats still do that open source thing.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had some college check on the show about two episodes ago.
And he confirmed that next cloud.
And what's called next?
Next talk, whatever is purely open source.
Mm hmm.
So that will be the prime example for pure open open source play company.
Granted, slightly smarter than red hat.
Yeah.
Well, successful.
Mm hmm.
Yep.
Okay.
What's left?
What's left?
I think.
We have covered pretty much all of it.
Okay.
So final question is, what is your biggest prediction for 2021?
Linux.
It loss will continue to be the primary open source podcast.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
No.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
No, I like that one.
Excellent.
We have made the progress.
We will.
Okay.
Prediction is we will have sponsorship after this episode.
When Microsoft Apple.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Just keep the cash coming.
We do take major credit cards.
Just get in touch.
The worst.
We do accept Bitcoin.
All major.
All major cryptocurrencies.
Mm hmm.
And we also accept a thought fiesta for Martin as a model.
As a payment guide.
If you.
If this is what you're looking for, but I want me to get in touch.
The email address is a thought underscore fiesta.
We speak to IT wants the email address.
I mean, Martin, if you haven't fired, then that's your job.
Come tomorrow morning.
Martin, we do have some feedback.
Yes.
Excellent feedback.
This time on.
Kevin Roach.
What did Kevin write?
Kevin wrote.
I love the show.
Great interview with Frank Carly check.
I'd love to know more about next cloud.
Excellent.
Well, Kevin, the URL is actually next cloud coming from our
completely mistaken.
The source code is on.
Yes.
And of course, the GitHub repo is therefore for you to clone the code.
And off you go.
Excellent.
But hey, but wait.
But wait.
There's more.
There's more.
We also send a mail to the HPR media.
Let's say.
I just listened to the interview with Frank Carly check on Linux
in loss.
And it got me thinking the interview was mostly about the project
itself, which is fine.
But it left me wanting more.
Don't you?
And I suspect there are people in HPR that can satisfy our
requests.
And then he goes on with the list of things that you would love to
see.
I'm like, I'd love to have maybe a short series on.
Now, that might look at how next cloud isn't starting configured.
There are some of the applications you might want to use.
What are the best apps through place things like the Google apps,
for instance, and so forth.
There hasn't been an answer on this one.
So as both that nobody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe we should know actually maybe we should do a second.
Show on next cloud.
This time what 20 hours with the detailed installation walkthrough.
Yeah.
Did you not do this so early?
No.
No?
No, not a show, but install it.
Oh, yeah, I did.
Of course.
Can you not send them your notes?
Well, there are no notes because I simply followed the installation
instructions on the website.
And if I went, it's not rocket science Kevin.
All right.
You heard it here first.
Exactly.
It's not rocket science.
And if it is, then you can get it.
Yes.
Just want to.
Yeah, you just want to know what you're doing as usual.
Especially the version that I installed last.
But the warning was actually the card that was on the website.
That they only supported 7.3 as in terms of PHP.
But once you know this, it's all plain sailing.
The documentation is actually quite good on the website.
Full credits to somebody called Frank College.
Because this is actually very, very administrative forward.
All you need is a decent spec machine, PHP and some other modules.
But these are all documented.
But needless to say, you can also put this into the Docker container.
And off you go.
And with that, we are at the end of the feedback.
Okay.
Of course, there will be a BSI office show.
Yes.
These are the things.
The thing.
Yes.
The thing.
Yes, we come.
We're going to come to the thing in a minute.
Okay.
The B side, of course, will be available.
Once this show is on Hacker Public Radio.
We are aiming.
Once you hear this, we are recording this, as I said.
Early in the year.
And we are aiming to put this on Hacker Public Radio.
Between Christmas and your year by that time, you will have the B sides.
Class, of course, the thing that we already used.
Yes, we did.
Okay.
In the last episode, that would actually be a special.
Of something called the dark side as in the dark side tech support.
Watch out for it.
It's a really really special.
Is this special in many ways?
Absolutely.
It's not for the same part.
It's long.
As a matter of fact, it's triple X.
It's also not for the musically inclined.
No, it's certainly not for any, for any minor.
So under age people under the age of 35.
And as I said, it's not for the faint hearted, but it's pure black humor.
If you think the inside of a new MacBook Pro is black.
Just listen to this dark side special.
You'll be amused for one of a better expression.
See you on the other side.
This is the Linux in-laws.
You come for the knowledge.
But stay for the madness.
Thank you for listening.
This episode of Linux in-laws is proudly sponsored by the future.
Next week's lot of numbers.
Cute little viruses from China that made an appearance on the international stage.
Kindly in the disguise as Mrs. Pandemic.
Unforeseen developments for certain US presidents.
We have it all.
No prepayments necessary.
No credit cards accepted.
Now the major in a minor.
Just wait.
And we will simply happen.
No need to fret, target board.
We've got you covered.
Never mind what people.
Politicians and other animals will tell you.
The future is always different from what they tell you to expect.
A happy 2021.
And wait for us next year.
We will certainly be around.
This podcast is licensed under the latest version of the Creative Commons license.
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Credits for the intro music go to Blue Zeroosters.
For the songs of the market.
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