hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr0710.txt

Episode: 710
Title: HPR0710: spics on tech
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0710/hpr0710.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-08 01:19:57

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Mmmm!
Ha ha ha!
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, well, okay in English, huh, I mean, I think
Okay, see it doesn't see it. See I said escuch all this time on a hacker public radio. No, never
Okay, so let me let me let me start out by describing you what what's
What this is all about so
Okay, so there's this like
There's this podcast called hacker public radio and it's it's it's kind of weird it kind of works like an aggregator
Okay, so people people like produce it it it works in two ways so and
Like so mode a so so you can't choose between the modes you get you got them both at the same time, okay, but
But anyhow, so mode a is like syndication so they kind of subscribe to certain podcasts and then like you get them through their feed
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it's something like audio. Have you seen audio?
No, I haven't I haven't used it. Didn't Twitter
Come from audio or something like that. Oh, no, I don't think so it's it's something like you describe a web page when
Where you add your podcast and through that page you can subscribe through different feeds something like that, but
Okay, okay, I understand
Okay, so so there's that so that there's that part and the other part is that like
So so people produce special or not special, but just like shows that are only for hacker hacker public radio
So you know what Twitter did
Came from audio. I just remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I was opening a Wikipedia
Enter, you know like doing a Wikipedia
Sorry, sorry, okay. Yeah, I'm turning off my I'm turning off my
My torrent feed torrent the application now just just in case because you know, I don't want that messing up the bandwidth
Yeah, okay get a nice clear crystal
Sound and everything else. So so that's so so the
One so I've been listening so people like
These like this the special show like the syndicated shows sometimes we get
Python a little bit of Python. Have you have you listened to that podcast before? No, never
No, no, it's pretty cool like I'm kind of interested in Python sort of you know like once I once I you know
Was it got a really good hang of Lisb and Haskell and all these like supposedly uber
Really cool a programming languages, then I'm gonna move forward in to see and and Python and and I'll and small talk and
Everything else, but it's it's it's cool to listen to the you know, just to to the developments and help you know all the different compilers and
You know stuff like that. So, you know, I mean, it's interesting even if you don't know Python like it's it's really cool from yeah from like a developer perspective a system administrator
You know from all these kinds of perspectives that that that you know kind of orbit around
The development of a language. Yeah, I know because I have heard some podcasts that are very
Technically advanced and I don't have the skills to to do what they can do, but it's really interesting to to hear how they do this stuff how they
Recommendations and everything I hear for example
You know a security security now
Podcast and I think it's the tech technically. It's really advanced of course
It's not meant only for experts, but I don't really use most of the technology discussed
But it's really interesting to to hear opinions and everything
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and right so so so the so one of them is
So a little bit of Python is one of the syndicated shows
There's others other syndicated shows, which I don't I don't remember right now
But like lately like not the not syndicated like the special shows that people make only for for hacker public radio
They even include people just talking about the history of computers or their own history with computers
You know with like before the before the PC
And even way before that then like like the the micro computers from the 60s and the
You know the main frames and terminals and and that that kind of stuff
So anyway, so the guy who's like organizing this stuff, which I I can't remember than his name
You know off the top of my head or anything like that
But he's saying like well if people don't produce special content for hacker public radio, then it's it's gonna go off the air
Really or just gonna right is just gonna see is has a
Oh my god, okay, that's that's that's that's like
That's a whole are we taking time here because I only want to make this like 20 minutes long or so
We can always edit this stuff, but it's like five minutes already five minutes already all right
Yeah, so right so let's see so so I was so this is the proposal I have for you like we just we just make like
Every few weeks like just one show to
So so this hacker public radio thing keeps it doesn't dry up and we can just talk about just just
Just general stuff. That's right. Like
Picking our interest or whatever. Okay. I think it would be a great idea and I think that I
Well, we have first
Let me
We have to do first, you know, like introduce ourselves. Why are we taking this this show?
I think I think we I think we already have that covered since
We talked but I think whoa that's the whole reason why I just said all that all that boring shit already
Well, I don't think so
Yeah, I think we should say more what oh go ahead then
Well, okay
I don't remember the first time I use a computer, but
It was a really old one for my standards, you know MS-DOS
and
And I fell in love with computers at a really early age
But I think I was involved in the hacker community when I was a teenager from
15 to I don't know 20 maybe 19 and
I was I made an e-sign and
Hacking e-sign is Spanish and I was really really
Getting into programming and and all the hacker stuff really
But I don't know what happened that I
changed directions and
Ended up right now. I'm doing research about hackers and I live in the Mexico, US border
I think that's about it
Let's so what what state are you in I mean, let's like geographically so people know
You can look it up on Google maps, you know, if you're a little I'm in Baja, you know, it's in the border with California and
Mexico Lee
border town about border city that it's
In Imperial County with the border is it with Imperial County a very unknown city worldwide
But it is like two and a half hours from Tijuana
So you know
Okay, all right
Let's see. Well
So how can I
So a little bit about me then
What well we're gonna use tags. I mean
Handles or we're gonna use our real names. Well, I we can use handles. I mean
Yeah, you say handle that will be cooler. I guess
I'm just gonna make one up on the spot then but
I've always wanted to you well on IRC. I'm verbose on on free free node
Oh, no, no, no, wait. Hold on. I'm not verbose. I'm sick you sick. Il paque what which is a it's a Mayan sort of
Sort of like a finger not a finger food. What do you call it when it like a dip? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so
Yeah, so that's me. So anyway, so so yeah, so I was born in Tijuana
Although I I tell everybody
I tell everybody that I'm from Ensenada because if I tell if I tell people I'm from Tijuana then they
Look at me. Well, they're like really suspicious eyes. Oh, yeah, I know what you mean
I mean, I have to tell people that I leave one block away from the border and still they don't trust they they feel like
I mean, I mean, you know
There's some times I'm afraid of Mexico, right? And even one block away from the border
You're still in the most dangerous place placing the world, right? Yeah
like you know, like
Yeah, well, I mean like Iraq and Afghanistan
Exactly, those are like really far away so they don't kind of count too much. Yeah
So yeah, so I was born in Tijuana and I'm 31 years old
And I remember going to pick and save for those people who
Can remember what does it's like
It's like before Walmart and all these these other stores that are like offer really cheap crap
They were these these stores that were called pick and save. They're called the big lots, right?
Yeah, yeah, right now they are big lots. Okay, so it's so it's got a big lots from from the 80s
And there was these really interesting books about basic
Really weirder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and if you saw that you know, we can save oh check this out
Pick and save but they were in Spanish, okay, really? Wow
So imagine that so I'm like, okay, so there's these Spanish books on on basic and
They were like my life would have been totally different if I saw a basic book in Spanish in a pick and save really
Definitely changed mine, so I picked it up. So I think I
So they were really cheap. So I bought like three and
They were like for kids they were like like with for kids and like really like illustrated, you know
And all that kind of thing and so I was you know
So so back then, you know before then before then I was like, oh, you know these computers
They're like really magnificent machines. They're like totally mysterious and opaque and you can't you know
I'll never find I mean I'll be like really old until like I really find out how they kind of work on the inside
Which is which is true because I still don't really understand how they really work and I guess nobody really does
Well, not
Okay, well, I mean, I have a ways to go still so anyway, so so this these books
They kind of really got me curious like oh, basically, okay, so
So then a few years later my dad got a you know find out found out about the really cool and
Library system that you guys in the US have and he found out that you could get a library card even if you weren't
A resident you could just get like a like a special sort of I mean you had to pay a little bit more
You could get a library card and you could take out books. So so I just went and and
My dad's a he's my dad's like a dentist and he's also like a musician and a
Radio DJ and all these kinds of other music
Related things so anyway, so so he one of his patients one of his dental patients
Like he kind of like oh, I don't have all this money to to pay you
But I'll give you a computer and my dad was like oh sweet cool. All right sure
So he one one night he's like he knocked on my doors. I was already asleep and he said oh look look what I brought about you
Brought you and and it was like C64 which I knew back then even it was like
1991 or so so I already I had already taken
IBM PC classes like DOS and all that. This is night. I had I took them in 1989 or
1990 so there was no windows still it was all MS DOS and I remember the big thing that happened
Over there was people like when the teacher left
This was in the Casa de la Cultura
Okay, do
Like a government run sort of cultural thing
For kids and like and one of their one of their programs. I mean one of their like like classes
They they had was computer. So I'm like, oh, okay cool. I'll take I'll take that. I took tap dancing
Singing
I'm a geek. Okay, so yeah, so tap dancing a fuel to me until the first class and I'm saying no way am I doing that?
No way that's like totally
Yeah, yeah, it looks cool like when other people do yeah
So I'm like no
So anyway, but the the I mean I got I got a really good kick out of the
Computering computing classes and I mean they were kind of I'm guessing your classmate's got a good kick out of you in tap dance
Yeah, well, they didn't they didn't really find out. I think I canceled that class like after a week or so
Like I'm not yeah anyway your classmates when they saw you well, okay, forget it. Okay. It's okay
I
Mean they would have I mean imagine me tap dancing into the into the class, right like
Good afternoon tap any tap any tap
I could tap I could like tap with my with my uh with my feet while I while I typed on the on the
On the keyboard, right? I could
Anyway, so uh yeah
So I'm making this too long. So anyway, so I learned all the commands Dell and you know
Der and all those commands
And then so when when my dad bought brought me the c64 I already knew that it was obsolete
But I didn't get I didn't care because it because I could I turned it on I connected everything
I saw the manual and it and it used basic oh really
Yeah, so like right from the start like from like you could use basic on the like on their on its command line
quote unquote
So you can program it directly just by starting it up
So that was that was really appealing and then like I don't know like that was 1991. So right now or to so 20 years later
Uh, I got uh, so I got two you boon two desktops three actually
Uh, a free bsd server which which for for now is only a
a crappy
file server
And I'm interested in open bsd and just in uh programming languages
And linguistics, which is which is what I'm gonna study. I'm 31 and I'm I haven't had a
What do you call that in English when you have a license? Yeah, I'm like a bachelor's a bachelor's degree, right?
So I don't I don't need I'm 31. I don't even have a bachelor's degree, but I'm working on it
And that's that's those are pretty much my interest linguistics and computing
Well, that was there with all kinds of things. So yeah, okay. I you brought to me a lot of memories, but um
Maybe we can save that for later, but I can tell you that
uh
In
Calexico the border town. I'm next to and there's it, you know that swap me or flea market. I don't know the exact term
Tangus. Yeah for you you mean on you mean on the uh on the US side of the border, right? Yeah, I mean
And there it's called Santa Tomas and you know there's a lot of stuff to buy clouds, you know furniture
You know everything you can buy there and second hand
And from time to time there there were boxes with computer stuff, you know electronics
And I always looked there to see what I could find. You know they they gave you everything practically for free because
They didn't know what what it was and frankly it was really old. It was obsolete. It was you know old hardware
useless mostly
but
There were some manuals there
So I bought everything I could so when I arrived home I looked at every
Every piece of hardware and I said well, what what is this and
I tried to figure out what
What what is for because um there was an internet really and so I couldn't look it up
And but I learned a lot even
There were discounts or cities and I bought them and I I looked at them
There was a lot of interesting information in those discs and information that shouldn't be there. I mean
They should have for you raised the information before they threw it out, but they didn't
and I found out a lot of stuff and and
I I still go there, but there there's not the same because people now know
The value of computers, so they they're more
They know what what it's useless and what's useful so they
They I don't know it's not the same
Uh-huh, okay, so do you have any news?
Uh, no, no actually it's it's well the only
I don't know like
One thing that I have to have to kind of uh, you know get off my chest or just just mention or whatever. Yeah, is that uh
like I've been I've been um
It's kind of strange because uh I just got to work. I'm just I'm just starting uh like a it's been a month since I've been working at this uh
government
program like educational program for indigenous uh kids
Uh
So um, I'm I'm in like like I'm I'm like out in the
Like in the rear really rural parts of Mexico and I don't have a uh
Uh, 3G modem or anything
Like that. I mean, I don't have I don't have any I don't have any way of connecting
Like so Monday to Friday. I'm like totally without internet really and it's yeah, and it's and it's kind of really
It's I mean, I'm gonna get you know, I'm gonna solve that eventually
But you know these these past weeks. It's been it's been kind of it's been kind of a torture also like
It's really hot. It's really hot. It's really dusty and uh, you know, there's kids
I mean, I don't have a lot of privacy so kids come kind of come come up to me or I mean
I'm just I'm just in this like kind of like a shack working and then the kids I mean there's no door
There's like two doors, but they don't have like it's there's two passageways. They don't have they I can't close the doors
There's no there's there's doors without doors. I don't know the English language is kind of weird
But I mean they don't they don't they don't close they don't have the stop thing
Whatever. Yeah, so uh, so they just come in and I think they can like
Interrupt me so it's kind of
The only time I can I can work is like late at night when there's when the wind blows from the jungle to the to the sweet or whatever
So there's no dust in the wind and it's like cool enough so that it's so that the machine doesn't like
Melt while I'm using it and all the kids are asleep. So I can I can kind of like, you know, just just do stuff
But uh, you know by that by by then I'm really like really tired. I can't concentrate as well
So yeah, I mean, I mean you're talking like
Something from another century. I mean
Wow
Yeah, so it's so I'm kind of a little bit out of touch and I kind of want of it's kind of like a challenge to find the
the adequate
Discipline and sort of like kind of hack
In a certain way like hack time or hack space and space and time, you know kind of find the correct configuration of how to like
get be able to still
work
Because you know, I mean, I do work. I mean, I teach these kids and all the you know
preschool and primary school
But I mean do it, you know, do my personal projects
Computer related personal projects while I'm while I'm in this small town
It's three families, so it's really it's more like a hamlet than a small town
Okay, so yeah, so that's that's that's my big excuse for not being uh, you know, in touch with what's what's going on
So it'll be my kids like it's already 20 minutes, but um I
I want to do 10 more minutes and okay, but I have to go really so I only wanted to say this
what um
Right now I was work last week. I was working on what is
defining what is
hacker practice
what makes
hacking
Unique because hackers have access to the same technology that every user has access to
There there has to be something different that that makes hacking
Unique it's not only using you know technology. It's not
And so I finally came to
Satisfactory definition of what hacking is and I did that through several
You know authors that have approached
The subject, but none of them has given a real definition of what hacking is
Everybody talks about hacking, but nobody knows knows what it is of course if you ask a hacker and you you ask him
What is hacking? He's he's gonna answer you without much trouble. I mean he's gonna say hacking is you know
Creativity or maybe making technology do something unexpected or something, but right, but if I'm on the
academic field
I have to really make a good definition so people that are not hackers
Know what hacking is even if they have never seen hacking before and I think that hacking has to do with technology
but it's mostly about
Your attitude towards technology. I mean hacker does not only use this technology
He questions technology. I mean if
Steve Jobs says that you can't use
You know apps for the iPhone that
Apple computers have not has not approved
Most users they don't make a fuss about it. They just accepted, you know
That's the way it is that's the rules
That's it, but a hacker
knows that that's only a restriction
Oh
For business purposes not really because the iPhones can't handle it mostly because Apple computers doesn't want you to
Use your
iPhone freely
so that's that's one of the
Things that hacker do and
That's one important component of hacking the other component. I believe it's that
It's not it's made for fun
you know
It's mostly made
Because of the challenge and
you're kind of
um
enjoying
Solving a problem. It's not because your boss told you to or it's not because it's an a school assignment
It's more for in your own motivation and exploration
Right
There are several things I have
Identify maybe you believe that I'm not
Making a big breakthrough because it this sounds obvious for something inside of
Uh the hacker community, but it's not obvious for authors about the subject
You know a lot of people that
um
Right about hackers. They write about
Criminal aspects or maybe about fraud or maybe about other stuff that
It's it's there. I can say it's not but
Mm-hmm. It's not central to hacking. It's more like the view of some
Somebody from the outside
Well and viewing viewing the consequence some sort of consequence instead of the the practice itself somehow exactly and I think that
Also a lot of emphasis has been put on hackers themselves and I think that hackers
That's not for me at least that's not the important stuff because
Hacker practice is what makes a hacker and
Right there are you you are what you do and not who you think you are
Exactly exactly and also um if
Maybe you do hacker practices maybe you hack
But maybe you're not a hacker. I mean there are a lot of people that do
Stuff that could be consider hacking, but they are not hackers and they don't feel
They don't think
Um
Yeah, they don't they don't identify identify themselves as such
Exactly anybody else and I don't think that's important to
To know to feel I'm a hacker you're not a hacker. I'm a hacker again. That's not important. I mean the important stuff is what
you do
and I think that's
Note many
Authors have at least in the academic field have
Approach the subjects this way, so
I'm what what was what was your handle
My handle
Bad yeah, well at least for the show. Bad bit I never
I never said what okay bad bit that's my handle and I have to go
No, wait, wait, hold on, okay
We are at least I think it leads you should uh
Sort of explain because I mean it's this is really real interesting stuff
But I already know what kind of work you're doing
But I think all the listeners probably don't really go and look hard up to that
So why don't you describe your you know this this academic project you're doing and what can what feel this anthropology or something?
It's sociology or what close to anthropology it's uh field
Relatively new field called cultural studies
And cultural studies began in the 1950s so for
Social sciences. It's quite new and
Cultural studies
I don't know where to begin
but
The approach they can they can they can work they can work you pity that but yeah, but okay
That's how long how long have you been working on this hacker cultural studies and and what focus does it have specifically
What well this is
This is a project for my masters my masters in cultural studies. I began in last summer and I my I want to know
If
Or why hacker practice
Or how hacker practice is used for
Political means
That sounds really crazy for a hacker but because they most of them they they don't relate to politics or or they are politicized
But they don't see hacking as something political
But I think
Sometimes it is not always because
Let me put you an example
I mean okay
This guy Phil Simmerman
PGP
Do you know him
Do you have you have you used PGP you know pretty good privacy
The creeps
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm familiar with it, but I haven't used it for a while. Okay. Okay. I'm not I'm not really interested in it too much
Okay, okay
Phil Simmerman he saw that there was going to be a legislation
Prohibiting
Citizens to use encryption. So he's he didn't think that was fair
So he said okay, I'm gonna develop a good software that you know
Normal people could use to protect their information and he released it before
You know that legislation was to place yeah, yeah to
um
Make it difficult for it to be approved because he didn't think about air and he said that
Every citizen should be should have the right to protect his own information
for
From everybody. I mean not even the government has
The right to
To look at your private information
So it was a long
A long process in the legal process
Finally PGP prevailed and still here. It still works and
You know, I think it that's a big achievement and you know
He programmed he created that model of encryption or that system and
You know that hacking for a political
means, you know political
ends so
That's you know only one of many examples
So that's why why I'm doing this research. I'm focusing on South California. No North
Baja California. So I'm trying to see differences and similarities between
Mexico and the United States. So if you you think you can help
You're welcome
They can write to you or what? Yeah, of course my email
I'm always have a lot of trouble with my email spelling it in even in Spanish
So can you put a link in the show notes or something? Yeah, yeah, let's let's do that
So how how what are we gonna call this show then?
We can do it like every two weeks because I'm going to what the mile for about a week or so
So we could probably record when I get back
Yeah, I actually could are we gonna call I was thinking about something like spics on tech or something like that something cheeky and
Baby, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not very good at
Well naming stuff. Well, you're you're handled pretty cool. So I thank you, but I chose it when I was 14
Well, it's still a cool. It's stuck and
Mm-hmm. I don't know hacker something
Silicon border. Yeah, all right. Okay, cool. So
So you recorded this so you'll send it you'll send it back, right? Yeah
Okay, cool. All right, so
You got to go right? Yeah, I have to kind of okay, I have to yeah, if by the way
By the way, I haven't told you this I found one or maybe I did I found a hacker spacing and it's another
Really? Yeah, I mean
Haven't I told you this now you haven't we haven't talked for for for a while. We've been
I'm going tomorrow
Yes, and there's um, you know kind of a workshop
Called electronics for artists. So I'm going to go the first two classes. So
Let's see what what it is and I was really excited because I never believed their
Packer space could be could exist here. So
And now that's a pretty cool city. Yeah, that's true that the
It has the biggest number of
um, scientists
Um in Mexico, you know
There's a research institute there, right? How does scientist ratio in the in Mexico?
Hmm, wasn't there like a research there's a research institute there right for nuclear physics or oceanography and several several
You know, I really you know physics
Several stuff. Yeah, there are a lot of people a lot of scientists there
Yeah, I should buy a house there. Yeah
I don't know what money, but you know what? I don't know with what money, but uh, yeah
Okay, so that I like this so I think that
Next episode we should plan a little yeah, we should plan. Yeah, yeah
Okay, I'm John for who is going to listen to this but okay
Probably nobody, but all right
Well, okay, all right, it's true. Take care man
Same to you
All right, okay, see you
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