hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr2849.txt

Episode: 2849
Title: HPR2849: 2018-2019 New Years Eve show part 5
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2849/hpr2849.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-24 12:10:28

---

This is HBR Episode 2849 entitled HBRNY Show 2018-2019 Part 5.
It is hosted by Honki Magu and is about 129 minutes long and carries an exquisite flag.
The summer is, the HBR community comes together to say happy new year and chat.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by an Honesthost.com.
It 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15, that's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's Honest and Fair at An Honesthost.com.
Well, I don't know how well my audio is, I don't have anyone to test it, but I wanted
to jump on here and talk about the, see if anyone or else around here has been participating
in the Sing's Holiday Hack Challenge this year.
I'd like to hear about the challenge, I haven't been participating, but I'd certainly
like to hear someone who knows more about it.
So every year, Sing's puts on the Sing's Holiday Challenge for people that are cyber
security enthusiasts, and play around with their Cali Linux, and so like last year their
challenge was using, well, it's a multi-part type of challenge for like last year's, they
had like a physics game where you had a little snowballs to bubble to get clues from different
types of elves, because it's all a Christmas theme, right?
So you're kind of up at the North Pole helping sing out and the elves help you out giving
hints.
So you do terminal challenges throughout the game, where you collect more hints and some
of them are, you know, this process won't start, you know, what's preventing it from starting
or, you know, I can't get something around on my Linux thing, you know, can you help me
out?
The elves are very thankful so they give you hints and whatnot for the bigger challenges.
So to start off on your bigger challenges, it was the clues they gave you was about like
the Equifax hack from 2017, and you actually ended up using that Sing Apache Strets attack
on one of their machines that they set up, so they intentionally made their machine vulnerable
to their life machine out there, where everyone is getting into it through the Apache Strets
volume and creating persistence on that machine, and you had to set up, you know, your SSH
session, but you had to learn, and it's all about learning throughout the entire thing,
you know, they're not expecting you to know the stuff, so that's why they give out plenty
of hints.
So you had to learn how to set up the SSH session, so your port connection to, you know,
that box would become your pivot, so you could pivot through that box out one side through
the other to the rest of their network, because that Apache Strets box had that one exploit
on it, but they didn't have any other type of binaries on the system for you to be able
to use to, you know, continue your attacks, so you actually had to use the binaries on
your own system to run the rest of your attacks throughout the rest of their network, you
know.
So, I mean, that was kind of the, what kind of got me hooked on last year was being able
to run an attack like that, a lot of red team type of scenarios, but this year's stuff
is a lot more blue team, you know, like you have to read PCAP files and analyze them
to see what traffic is, and from that traffic create, you know, rules for your snort machine
and prevent, or not prevent, but to like alert certain types of traffic that you want
to see when it comes across your network, you know, a lot of, a lot of different hacky
stuff and kind of got me started on the path of trying to do the hacker stuff, you know.
But I think the guys that created a part of a company called CounterHack, and they got
there on the website, but the same is holiday hack sound as what the main site for where
everything is happening, and you can still do last year's challenges and everything,
they have write-ups, you know, if you get, so you can kind of see what you're doing.
But right now, we're just third week three of the hack challenge, and we've got a couple
of weeks ago.
They kind of give out a couple of grand prizes, you know, they give out a free Sands course
to, you know, to like their cop winner, you know, to be sure, it's a, oh, I'm not a
lot of people, you know, but I get the effort for, because I didn't even say how you win
or how you compete to win, is you actually have to put together your documentation skills
and document everything that you've done the entire way and submit that to them, and
they read through it.
I think last year, the grand prize winner actually put together an entire magazine, which
was kind of cool.
I can understand the sort of thing you're, you're talking about, but my skills are definitely
not at that hacker level.
I don't see that, like, so you have other, you know, captured a flag type of websites out
there, you know, like hack the box study, you know, right, they put up, you know, machines
that are very current, and they have like a pot, you know, like a 100% policy, like
no one is allowed to talk about it, and if you talk about it, you get permanently banned
right before they retire a system.
So, like, you don't get hints, you don't get help along the way, there's just you living
off the land and do what you can do, but when you do things like, you know, the hard
to hack challenge, there's, you know, an entire community, like, a lot of people use
discord, whatever that is, and then to another big group of people on, you know, Central Slack
or Central sect Slack channel, and you can, you know, work with people, hey, I'm stuck on
challenge number one, I don't really know what I'm doing, you know, can anyone help out,
and you get like 10 correct messages all of a sudden with people kind of talking about
what to do, but Sam's is also kind of included, you know, hints throughout this, hey, this,
this is a good article to go and read, you know, or they kind of change their focus this year
from just, you know, reading articles, articles into more of a, like, a conference format, where
this year's challenge is an 3D environment, when you make a little avatar and you hop around
Santa's castle, and up on the second floor, I like, you know, it went to Derby Con or something,
you know, there would be, they're up on the second floor, they have conference rooms up there,
you know, a little man jumps in the conference room, and they got a YouTube clips up on the wall,
I'll start playing, you know, like they actually add the conference, and you know, they're all,
they're all pretty relevant talks, you know, some of them kind of talk about stuff that
might still be part of the challenges here, or we're not out of the scene yet, because I haven't
finished a challenge, but yeah, they try their best to try and push people towards, you know,
learning something, trying to get an answer or something, and then, you know, they still have
the challenges for, you know, the guys that do this stuff professionally every day, you know,
the challenge I'm stuck on now, I might not finish it in time to be able to submit anything,
but there's just tons of people that have already finished it already, because they're definitely
professionals. Yeah, well, again, I've got home networks set up and whatnot, but I really haven't
done a lot of work, the one thing I haven't done a lot of work using the network as a network
instead of just a funnel to the internet. All right, I'll give away the answer to the first
challenge here, right? So like the very first challenge that they have for you is a, they don't
call it a raspberry pie, they call it a cranberry pie, right? And they give you, you click on it,
it pops open a terminal, and here it says, you need to exit out of vi, right? So one of the hints
they give you is like to the main page of the vi editor, right? But if you've done it before,
you know, you know, control colon, you know, pops you out of it. But if you've never done it, now you
just learn how to exit, you know, control colon, you know, pops you out of it. But if you've
never done it, now you just learn how to exit the, you know, vi, you know, it's not all about
networking. It's, you know, I mean, you know, some like the pizza files, I guess kind of knowing,
you know, your different ports and stuff like that. But, you know, a vi challenge had to exit it,
you know, that's not too bad. But if you've never seen it before, now you need to work for some of them.
Yeah, I really haven't dug into vi or them, like I probably should, but there was so much that I
need to dig into with the Linux. I'm, you know, I'm just grinding along. Well, I found a pretty good
state for kind of getting the baseline of, you know, getting your terminal skills built up as a
a challenge. And all the answers are out there for it. So it's kind of easy to cheat at it.
It's called over the wire. They have a bunch of wargames on there and the one for the turn,
you know, for your Linux command line challenge is this called bandit. So they'll ask you to do
something, you know, like, oh, well, I'm going to search directly for this and like all the links
that pop up are, you know, people's relapsed for the challenge. So it's kind of hard not to cheat
yourself sometimes with it, you know, but, you know, that's a good resource for learning, you know,
more about the Linux command line. You know, like, I go to these conferences and I see people
up there using like team ups and they're terminal and just flying through it. You know, I've got my
cheat sheet out in front of me because I can't remember how to get back to the other terminal.
And there's even ones out there, like under the wire, they do, they're all about learning
your PowerShell commands, you know, like how, you know, how like, if you wanted to read a
file on the Linux command line, you can just use cat, right? Well, Windows can kind of do the same thing,
but what is that command? And, you know, they kind of push you down the path of learning what
that command, you know, that counterpart command is. You are aware that there is a PowerShell
Deb. PowerShell Deb. I'm not sure. Debby and Package by Microsoft for PowerShell,
of PowerShell. All right, there. Just thought you might be the kind of guy who would download it
for just yet. You know, probably, you can just install it in your current system and probably
disaster them putting up a VM. Also, using PowerShell, and I don't know how it's implemented,
whether it's implemented as a true shell, or whether it is implemented as a program that you
that you have a separate interpreter for, it would be interesting to see how it mixes with,
you know, bash or name your shell here. One of the things that I think that I need to do
is set up a machine that only has shell or command line access. And then I would be motivated if
I'm going to work on that machine to learn how to use that environment. Yeah, that's kind of a
hard way to go. You know, I kind of like living on both sides. You know, you see a, you know,
piece of command line, something or other, you'd like to, you know, type out or you know,
a get or something that's super long and instead of typing it all out, you know, if you're
going to go eat coffee, paste it in, it takes a little bit easier.
Well, I'm just saying as a learning environment, again, maybe it's because I'm
changed it with with Windows through Windows 7 that I think going, setting something up just
to be command line would be helpful, though I may wait until high day to see if a high fork comes
up. I was listening to Hacker Public Radio years ago and I think there's some, some people talking
about arch Linux all the time. And, you know, it got me interested in it and I, I'm going to give
this a shot. So I actually tried installing your building arch, everyone to look at it. You know,
I was kind of a good experience to kind of get a, you know, kind of a foundation of like what
Linux really is. You know, it's, you know, this makeup of all this different stuff and then,
you know, someone paste Linux on, you know, the main Linux on to it. But, you know, I don't know,
is to make it like an everyday type of thing, you know, living on the edge like that was pretty,
was pretty rough. You know, so, you know, I don't really know where, where I would go, you know,
just a straight command line or, you know, I think, I think playing around with, you know,
some of these CTFs where you, you know, SSH into a Linux box and that's your, your only interaction
is that SSH. I mean, but you can still have the web that looks things up, you know, but it's still
kind of forces you down that path because, you know, there was like a file on that remote server where
you can't just browse to the directory and double-click and open it up. You're in a SSH session,
so you've got to do it through the command line. You know, you know, how can you download it off
to SSH to your local machine or, you know, just read it right there. I'm screaming, you know,
it's giving you an opportunity to kind of, in those skills without, you know, suffering.
Well, actually, one thing that I'm been looking at, but I haven't yet fully implemented,
is known boxes. I really would like to get into that because, uh, having something where I could
run Linux and without having to deal with virtual box is really what would really, uh, make me happy.
Well, that's the first time I've heard a known box, so I'm just kind of getting started looking
at it here. It says it's, it, it gives you access to virtual machines, running locally or remotely.
You would still need to have a VM running on your system to use boxes, customer.
Well, that's wood boxes. You configure your VM, your VM inboxes like you would in virtual box,
but it's Linux on Linux and you're, it's not, um, you don't have to use guest additions, stuff
like that. And, uh, and you get a lot closer, um, coordination boxes as far as I understand it
uses a lot more KVM, QMU, and more Linux native, uh, interfaces.
You know, it kind of makes me wonder because like, so I, I've run VMware and, uh, virtual box.
I have both of them as all of my machine. And, you know, the two of them, you know, they can play,
you know, most of the time they can kind of play the same VMs, uh, if you want, but you can do run
into an issue where, uh, you know, they just will not and you actually have to convert your entire VM,
for one type of virtual relation to the other. I wonder, you know, if you've got a whole network
worth of VMware stuff already built and try and bring it into boxes how much of a pain that would
actually be, you know, but it's interesting. I'm gonna have to play around with it. Well, what,
what I find is with VMware, you've got to convert your Linux machine to speak to VMware,
which then speaks to Linux again, you know, the guest edition stuff, while boxes doesn't have that
cable, uh, limitation. I mean, with virtual box pardon me, uh, you've got already built into boxes,
a lot of the stuff that you have to, uh, build into, uh, virtual box and your, uh, virtual machines
with guest editions. Boxes sounds like great stuff, but it's, uh, under-documented. Well,
we will miss the last, uh, update that they're mainly miss the last hour mark. Oops.
Thing. Ah, can people let me testing that did light up? Can anyone actually hear me?
I have a serious question about Mumble. Does anyone know how to increase the front size?
I can hear other people, but can you hear me? I can hear you. Well, you say this is working,
man, that's good. Well, so my clear or not, because it's new, that's that. Very clear.
Really? I always had, uh, before that it was never clear, but this one hopefully is.
One of these days, I've got to look for a good headset mic combo.
This was a cheap headset, but, um, I guess it's good enough. So I've finally gone this, uh,
and missed most of it, but in the mind, uh, is that, uh, are the interesting cats been happening?
We've been covering a variety of topics from sweetie printing through
mastodon through hacker challenges, uh, a whole bunch of things. Yeah, and I'm nearly one here in 2019,
and I believe at the moment who's on this for not done this since last time, actually. So, uh,
yeah, it's kind of nice being on a podcast again, although,
blowing a headset does feel a bit odd when you haven't done it for ages,
although I didn't actually have a headset last time, because to miss yous, phone and, uh, headphones.
Or is that how it's going quite again? Yeah. Why is that?
I have no idea. I just know that I was over here playing a game and we stopped playing it.
Oh, you're playing a game on your end? Well, lots of games, but this last one that we're just
playing was called Mission Red Planet, as I, uh, Windows game. No, actually, it's a board game,
a indie board game. No, ball games, yeah. I don't really play those anymore, but I know
some people still like them. How many people have been on this so far, roughly?
Seems to be about ten in the room and at once. At the most, when was that?
Seems to say study in and through the day. Seems to me.
Seems there's only four of us here at the moment.
Kind of was here about noon, central time. Yeah, I was, I had something like that. I had the, uh,
had it going on from my phone to, uh, Null stereo by the, uh, by a bluetooth adapter and
the OX, the web was called, so it actually came out quite well and like that.
I don't even play music like that as well. Collects is the internet. So no golden,
the golden doesn't mean on, for example, the Scottish guy,
or Fisselweb as I think he's called otherwise. I think it was that I can't remember what time.
I think I'll stay here about three hours now unless it gets really boring or something,
because it's a bit later here. It's about 10.30 my time. It's much later here.
Kind of heads that are using. Yeah, I just bought it recently,
chat max or whatever it was called. Fisselweb says to prescribe apparently going by the box,
you know, something standard, really. But you said that my voice come out very well,
or well enough. Oh yeah, very well. It's come out well. Yeah, that's nice change, because I've
done this before and there were, uh, headset issue or things like that and then it doesn't come out
properly. And all that. So that's nice change. I'm just running with a member X one. Okay,
I've got the box in my hair. So yeah, I'm using the, I'm using the chat max, HS,
iPhone 720, apparently. It's just clearer. Converse Cleary with Cleary, with Superior USB
audio and all that kind of stuff that they put on these things. It may be to advertise it, but
I guess it is clearer. I had a headset where the microphone and the headphones actually were
pretty decent, but when I would move my jaw, it would make a cracking sound and it would be
very distracting. Yeah, the other heads I had before was okay, except when they get old,
they start to fake for this stuff to come off and things like that and not to set sets or
other things like that as well. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Oh yeah, but actually,
in this case, it was a fairly new headset. It was like a larger tech from, there was just a year or
two old. Yeah, yeah, I had a low G tech on the floor, but then the like fake leathers had to come
off and all that and it doesn't really, it's not really going to happen. It's really 2019. The year
of desktop Linux, no, that's probably not going to happen. 2019, the year of some sorts of old
turn to mobile operating systems, some space taken off. That might happen because I don't mean
the bun to touch when it asks if that's not going anywhere, it's like that now, but I don't mean
I don't mean to sell a fish from you know, the former Nokia people, but I did read there was
another operating system called feature at OS or something like that. It's also being sold
on the new Nokia phones from the new companies, their brand. So I guess something like that could
take off more as well, but yeah, to honest, all the phones I'm kind of interested in are the
kind of alternative things, the Libra and which probably out of somewhere, pureism, the KDE
phones are coming, they're kind of going to the inertial mobile network at the moment,
and so on. Did they want to actually hear that? I heard it, but you're kind of faded in and out
a little bit. I faded in there. Oh right, maybe. But I was saying that yeah, these alternative,
well some of the alternative things that are coming are interesting, like the KDE phones that
can't go into a mobile network and the pureism, the brand and all this kind of stuff.
Only the pureism one was the one that was pretty well advertised, I haven't heard anything about
the KDE one. There's kind of two KDE phones really, so the actual, I can't remember quite now,
well, they're looking properly, but basically there's the, I think, I mean, there's the
actual KDE phone, and then they can't go onto the mobile network, it's like a Wi-Fi only thing to
begin with, and then there's another company, a finished company, also going to do one, but again,
you can't go onto the mobile network on these first versions, but so they're bringing KDE
to phones basically, so that's interesting as well, and it's had, but I didn't use to
pureism, and they were like, no, they've gone with known, so we're doing our separate things.
I've got to figure out how to use a Wi-Fi only. Well, that's the point. I think it's because
there's the actual mobile network to connect, you have to use proprietary software of some sort,
and these phones are completely free software, so you can't connect, I think it has to do with it,
and it's also as a kind of a first device to show that it can be done, so it's Wi-Fi only,
and I think they even said a phone today isn't necessarily going to a network, and using it like that,
it's like having a device that's mobile, but yeah, I mean, the network's so proprietary,
so there's some sort of proprietary bit, but it may make sense because otherwise you could just
come out and make your entry and pretty much and connect to a mobile network, and then
use it for free as well, which is not going to like actual mobile networks.
Yeah, well, if I was going to go serious with Wi-Fi, I would have to go
and get myself some private internet access. What, like a VPN, you mean? Yes, that's actually the name
of a private internet of a VPN jumper. Isn't that one that sponsors Wi-Fi as well, isn't it, I think?
I don't know, but it seems to be a good deal, and wouldn't take me too much to convert my network
over to it. Oh, yeah, but I was about, yeah, I mean, I do mean like mobile phones, but they're not,
they just can't be used for actual text or calls at the moment, or to begin with,
because they're how it's done, but it's so kind of interesting,
stuff that's on the verge of coming. Well, they can't be used on the wide network. You probably
could use them on Hornage or something like that. So again, do you say lineage?
Vonage. What's Longage? IP phone. Anyway, also see 5150 appears in there again. How many folks?
Hello, I've not spoke to you for about a year, but hello. Yeah, how's everything going?
Yeah, so it's okay, you? Can't complain to get back in as early as I thought I would to die, but
no, I've had, I've had succulent as well. I mean, I haven't got on here at all until about half an hour ago,
and it's already quite late here, but that's fine. More people in the room than there were
earlier this morning. So again, I said there's a lot more people in the room than there were earlier
this morning. Yeah, yeah, I guess. I didn't check my start time, or I would have been out here
start time for what to get back or to get on this. To get on this, so I was reading it backwards.
Believe me, reading it backwards. If I was thinking that it was going to start
evening my time instead of morning my time, I'm in the Eastern standard time zone.
Yeah, well, no, it's fine, but I mean, it's 26 hours. It's basically going to be drop in when
people drop in and then know, well, some people stayed for Bokestra, depending on the year, but
that's fine. Actually, you stayed for Bokestra, about two years ago, didn't you, 5150?
I don't know if that was two or three years ago, but yeah, I was, except for when I had to go
to chores, I was on nearly the whole 26 hours, and I wasn't, I can't tell you, I wasn't making any
kind of good sense by the end. No, and I kept it going, I didn't have to show you a few years ago as well.
Well, four years ago, swing. Well, good evening, folks. My name here is Steve.
Welcome, Steve. From, from America, I assume. Yes, and I think pretty close to 5150 if I'm not mistaken,
I'm, I'm in Kansas in the United States. Yeah, you actually is neighbor, very close.
Fancy that or a legal index user in Kansas? That's your neighbor, very close. Yeah, I don't know if
you remember. I actually met you 5150 briefly at the Kansas Flinics Fest a couple years ago in
Wichita. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes I get trouble keeping people, I've met that
often very straight, but yeah, good. I tried, been trying. There's, there's another person who
want to take the lead on it, but had an idea of maybe doing something next spring. I think we're
running into, you know, getting too late, maybe, maybe for all next year, not be doing another fast,
but it's, it's not completely, you know, cold and dead or whatever. There's, if there's a few of us
that would still like to see something done. Yeah, for sure. I'd like to see something done, too.
I know some of the guys that were in charge of it, those two years that, that it was at WSU,
and I can understand that they don't want to do it every year, but I'm hoping that somebody does
pick up the pick it up and run with it at some point. Louis talking about conferences. Yeah,
Kansas Flinics Fest. It was a, it's happened two, three, four years, maybe total, and not a huge
turnout, but, you know, the last couple, the last year, it did not happen, and we're just talking,
we'd like to see somebody pick it up and, and run with it again. Yeah, it had two five for me.
I come to that one way, two five away, but it's probably a good conference otherwise.
Well, that last year we had Mad Dog there, so I think, you know, I think it was very successful.
It's just, you know, like Steve said, I think those, those guys doing the two years in the
road, they just had some, some amount of burnout, and I was, you know, and anybody in Kansas
is interested, you know, if we'd all get together somehow and, you know, form a core group where it's
not on, on any, you know, four or five people every year or something, you know, I'd be, I
would certainly be interested in participating. I'm a little far from any major city to,
you think you can get everything done online, but it's a lot easier if you're there where,
where the event is going to be held, but, you know, definitely I want to be a part of it when we do
it again. Yes, we have a dog, or Joe has a dog. Yes, yes, I do. I have a couple of them.
And in laws. Oh, we've pretty much got the entire letting slut cast on the line right now.
Yeah, I'm not sure if honky's really there. I've talked to him a couple of times, but he hasn't
really responded. Yep. Yeah, if he was on this morning, but you're right, I think he's on just more
to record and maintain stuff and all that. So my project lately has been trying to set up a free
NAS server. Anybody mess with free NAS before? No. Yeah, really long time. Yeah, I've got an
actual file server on a pie that I use, but I've wanted to look into it, but you know, at these days,
I go with NAS for free just because you don't have the huge memory requirement. Yeah, I haven't
really looked at that one. I will have to say free NAS is pretty cool. I mean, yeah, you're right,
it does have a fairly large memory requirement to do it right, but the interface and the operations
and the ease of use is pretty slick. They've done a pretty good job. So what interfaces and
distros are being used to at the moment? You asking about free NAS or just in general? No, I mean,
I'm at a different topic. I'm like, then it's distros and interfaces. That's it. I'm a long time
Slackware user and on servers, I run, I run about 80 Slackware servers, but for desktops, I've kind
of gravitated toward the Zubuntu, which is Ubuntu with the XFCE desktop. That's my personal favorites.
Why for XFCE Ubuntu or XFCE? Well, I first got introduced to XFCE on Slackware, actually,
because I was running Slackware on a desktop, and that's what it comes with. Well, it comes with KDE,
but it also comes with XFCE, and I just really learned to like it. I don't know exactly why,
but I did. So when I switched over to the Ubuntu line, I just stuck with it, and it does what I want,
and I'm kind of a minimalist user in a way, or utility user, not terribly much into the flashy stuff,
so that's why I choose it. Yeah, so I mean, a lot of people can only use XFCE, and I've never
tried it out since 2004. It's never quite cut it, but then you get used to GNOME too, because it's
like Vidora had GNOME too, and the Ubuntu had GNOME too as default, and I'll see Marta more recently,
and all that. And then you got GNOME 3, which I did like, GNOME Shell, but you can probably guess
from the name I've never decided to put on temporarily, at least, what I'm running at the moment,
because it says Ubuntu 7 and that, but I personally think that, yeah, if you're going to run a
Ubuntu, you would know Discord dropped, and well, the phone stuff's community now on top of that,
Unitiate, but I just felt like when that came out, I mean, they got a lot of flak for it and
everything, but they were actually trying to do some innovation here, and the consumer innovation,
trying to get like, usual people to use it, and I think they were on something there,
and it was better than the old GNOME 2 patching they used to do, and now I feel like if you're
going to run GNOME Shell, you might as well just do it in some other distro, because there's plenty
of other distros that run GNOME Shell, and you could debate better even, so I'm kind of
being in the past if I'm running Unitiate 7, because it's been dropped, but I am currently,
because it's a bit like you, it does actually work, it's quite easy to use, you've got your icons
there, it's quite easy to actually get things done whilst you're running it,
where something like GNOME 3 GNOME Shell is nice and good, but it's also more flashy, which
can get a bit annoying sometimes, depending on what you're doing.
Yeah, I never actually ran Unitiate, I thought I should probably try it sometime,
and just see what it's like, but so I really don't have any opinion on it, but
I was used to the XFCE, so I gravitated towards that, and I'm not the type of guy that goes
looking for a lot of changes, if I can get it to do what I want it to do, then I'm usually happy,
so that's how I kind of roll. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm like as well,
generally speaking, yeah, I want good to falsess up. Oh, and of course the other thing with Uniti
was that it was tied to a button too, because of how it was made, basically, they tried to
port it to the door, and it opened so see, but there was some technical issues,
and then the Unitiate interface was never good enough on the desktop quite, I was getting there,
it was progress, but then it got dropped. On the phone and tablets, now under UB ports, though,
what's left it out in the community, I mean, that's very good, that works really well, I'd say,
when I got some of those devices myself, well, I've got a, let's say, a broken tablet,
because of some issue being dropped, and then some of them are going to fix it, and it came back
in the even worse state, and I've got two of the phones, and the other one is KDE. I, I think,
I've never, I've got a bowl with a distro that a lot of people use KDE, but I've felt as well,
but I never really liked KDE, it was always very bloated, it, I mean, it's like, it looks like
Windows, as well, well, you can go beyond that, and really, Microsoft did copy certain features of KDE,
there's an old video, Windows, someone YouTube, I assume, still, Australian Mall,
with, this is Windows 7, they face people, it's actually KDE 4, and, but yeah, it's great,
we have all this choice of interface here, and even file managers, and terminals, and all kinds of
things. Yeah, kind of like you, I, I tried KDE long, long time ago, and I wasn't overly impressed
then, but my understanding is it's changed a huge amount, and is a lot better than it was, and so,
I think it's a viable option, but I've, I've just not messed with it in the, in the last decade,
I guess. Yes, well, yes, change, KDE 3 was this, it lives on under the transit party,
actually, that, which is good. KDE 4 is quite different in certain ways, and then this KDE 5,
or it's just all plasma now, is again, different, but it doesn't quite cut it for me, there's just
something, I don't know, it just doesn't do it for me, a bit like, XSE or it's yours you like,
but again, it doesn't quite cut it for me, I tried LXD and stuff like that before, it wasn't quite
do it, but I guess it's kind of what you used to, and how, when you got introduced to something,
and what you kind of went along with, and then you sort of get your own personal
preferences, and that applies to everyone, we like different things, for different reasons.
Well, that's a great thing about Linux, is it's, you know, far more customization than it is,
due to personal taste that is possible. Yeah, yeah, that's the proprietor. Yeah, yeah, that's
basically what I was saying earlier, with a more customization choices, and choices of interface,
is distro, is all kinds of things, where you, where you won't really have that with windows,
or as much, and mac, and things like that. Hey, my, my preference is a lighter hierarchical
interface, rather than say you to do your known three, where they, you know, they put your
five most used applications at the top, but I prefer to have stuff, you know, broken up office
internet games, whatever, you know, on, on a main menu, and like I said, lights, things like
Montaille, LXQT, XFC, something like that. Yeah, yeah, you mean like categories groups, because there
was a, I think in the stench, and now I think GNOME to use to do that, or usually, you'd have
like, the internet group, your office group, and your graphics, and thinking games, and all this,
and I think that, with the other one, you can get extensions that would allow for that, but I,
I don't, I think even GNOME 3 did it for a while, but then I got a drop, so I'm not sure quite,
but I think I get what you mean. Yeah, I mean, I've run known three, and what was that,
says GNOME 3, what do you say? Well, I can walk down Joe, but yeah, I ran known three to try it out,
and I did put in those aforementioned extensions, but it's like, you know, my, might as well start
out with a lighter desktop that, oh, it's already organized like that. Oh, you can say something, Joe?
Oh, no, I don't have something on this conversation. I was going to ask Paul if he's still at the
house, but he doesn't seem to be responding. Did you get any interesting devices? I'm going to say,
I'm going to say last year now, I'm referring to, well, here it is, referring to 2018,
you're not, I think you're about to be in 2019. Anyway, you know what I mean? So let's say 2018,
did you get any new, interesting, Linux-based devices, or anything like this? 5150, because I
remember we had this chat before, and you were like, yeah, got the GPD, because the next stock
was back then, and so on. Yeah, well, there is, I don't have a GPD yet, but there is one, I guess,
coming out in February that's, of course, it would be, have less features, less power, but it's
going to be 300 dollars. I didn't have that kind of puts. I do have GPD devices, so I've got the
GPD XC with more than a few people actually have it with more space, so then 128GB instead of
64, because they did like a crowdfund again for that. I read that that's coming out with like a
GPD XC Pro with a few changes soon as well, which is pulling no point in me actually,
yetting, but people who don't have it, I said Android's one with their customised interface,
and for gaming. Then I've got a GPD win, which I've had Linux on now, but basically, I've got
a GPD pocket, that's very nice. Yeah, I mentioned it in the pocket too. There's a GPD pocket too
as well, which is slightly updated to the GP pocket. Slightly different hardware specs.
No, I'm interested in the pocket too, and because it's got like twice the processor of the
original pocket, and they changed the layout of the keys, and they changed the style of the mouse,
which I understand was an issue on the first one, but I'm definitely not interested in the price tag
on either one. Yeah, well, one other thing with these devices is that I'm from the UK, so I'm
going to say that these devices are selling over 300 pounds, which you could buy a laptop for
that kind of money, or reasonably cheap laptop. You could get the Microsoft Surface
go for that price and put Linux on it. But yeah, between $507 US, that's a little rough for
a seven-inch device. Yeah, it's got good stats, but still. Well, yeah, same with say the Libra
Pursum Libra M5, which we're talking about earlier, that's coming out, but it's going to be
sold for about 500 pounds, which is, again, it's like a new laptop, but that kind of money,
and that BBs me good specs laptop as well. Right, and by the time it comes out, it's going to have
an older processor in it, and it's not going to be top of the line, which is the problem that they
had last time. Wish one, wish one, wish one. Oh, which one was it that came out that was listed as
an open source Linux phone. Oh, that was the Ubuntu phones, and there was a sale fish.
That was crowdfunded as well. Pure, pureism? Yeah, yeah, yeah, pure, well, yeah, yeah, that one,
okay, pureism, so I was talking about, but yeah, so many said that from my name to you,
David, you said, oh, it's a rubbish phone, because the specs aren't that good, and then it's
going to come out, and it'll be even older, and maybe the hardware specs won't be that great,
but the thing is, but with that one, I mean, they've released these laptops already, it's all about
the like piracy and security as well, like you've got the hardware kills, which is your webcam,
and all this kind of stuff built in, that's kind of what's meant to sell it as well.
Well, if it's got a good enough interface that you can hook it up to a mouse and a keyboard and a
screen and have it actually be a Linux system, then I might still look at it for my next phone,
or I might wait until it's a used device, and get it then, but yeah. Well, it's going to have
an interface, so by the fault it's getting GNOME free, but GNOME Shell would have few changes to make
it go on the phone hardware, so that's what's coming, and then KDID are doing these separate
phones as well, two companies are going to do them, but without Wi-Fi, so without mobile networks,
be in with only Wi-Fi for those to be in with. But yeah, it's, for you Libra, it's interesting,
but it's very pricey for what it is, that's the one thing.
Yeah, I would love to have one, but if I could really, really justify it for work,
15 years ago. Well, maybe 54, I really got into Linux. I had a Sony Palm Top, which was
a, you know, kind of looked like four-actor of a camera, and you had like a three or four-inch LCD
that you would push up, and then it would have a keyboard, under where the LCD originally was,
and all that, and that, that was, if I was, you know, working in a school and went into a lab or
something, I didn't have to say, hey kid, I need to use the computer, get off. Not that I would
have done something, but occasionally, yeah, you'd go in a room and to fix something, and you know,
every workstation would be occupied, and you'd have to reschedule or whatever, you know, code
you something else, so that was nice that I could just get on the network and do my work in any
place, and I think that thing was like $1,400 or some ridiculous amount when I bought it,
and I just, the time, yeah, that's, you know, it's something I'm going to use all the time and work,
but, you know, the GPD, you know, I want something if the form factor of the GPD
that I can just put in a pocket on a pair of cargo pants and just carry it around everywhere,
but, you know, even the $500, $500, $600, unless like, for a toy to get out and say,
hey, look, it isn't this pretty, that's too much. I'm thinking visually of God to come down.
Go ahead. Right, so yeah, I mean, the GPD pocket has a nice keyboard, it's quite small,
it's seven inch devices, the GPD pocket too. I don't remember unless I look for it now,
because my mind's gone blank, but basically the PDA came back as well recently,
and I saw one of these and it's like, okay, cool, and it's, because it had, you could buy a
sailfish on it, you could buy an Android on it, and you can buy and have you some sort of linux on
it, a natural linux distro, and to, yeah, GME, I need PDA or something like that was called.
Yeah, that's it, yeah, that'll be it. And that's the human small, post that in the check.
I'll have to look for a link, but GME and I need PDA or something like that. Yeah, look for a link.
I saw one of these and that's like, even smaller than the GPD wins stuff and all that, but
oh, I know the one you're talking about, okay, the Gemini. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll be it,
right, Gemini, yeah, Gemini PDA, that sounds right. And it was quite close.
No, that was a nice little device as well, I only, you know, I've got to see one
as like a demo device, and yeah. Well, I saw one advertised the other day, the thing is it's
one of these ads, and this is something Facebook ought to pay for more, even than the privacy is
selling ad space to people who just take the whole ad from somebody else, cut and paste,
and then the pro, I looked online on Google because I knew the price was way too good to be true.
The price was like 60 bucks for this thing, you know, if I get it for 60 bucks, I'd buy five,
but, you know, but look at that. Yeah, the price was, I think, over 600, 500, 600 bucks easy.
So put that up to one of the, you know, completely scam ads, they're going around,
Facebook is trying to get your credit card number. Facebook advertising, so I mean, I guess we
all probably responds to some of those ads ads here and there, but I also think that popped up
yesterday morning or night that was got me on something that was like a non-line seminar about
something, and that was kind of interesting. And also I've been doing events, small events,
well here, so you're a peer and idea, really, called Linux presentation day, and the idea is
you went to do these events twice a year and get the general public into show them Linux and get
them using Linux. Nice idea, except actually getting sort of usual enough people in is very
difficult, but I had to go at Facebook advertising for the last pool of those, and I mean, it failed
one of those times, I know one came in from it, but it did bring in a few people, but the only
downfall is you, you know, it comes out to like full 5,000 people from sort of your area and
further away, but it's not quite, it doesn't quite bring enough people into money, or it needs to be
set up to target, and my headset's going where, I think.
Hey everyone, this is Claudio M, just wishing you a very happy new year, just 12 over here in Miami,
happy new year everybody, happy new year, happy new year sir, happy new year, yes, it's 5am,
yeah, it's 12.04 right now, so we just got done talking with the family members and everything,
so I figured I'd join it, jump in, and wish everybody a happy new year here from Miami, Florida.
Anyway, wishing everybody else a happy new year, once you get there, see you, see you in 2019,
goodnight guys, catch you in the morning, all right night, yeah, happy new year.
I guess my headset's okay now, don't wrap it in there then.
No, it wasn't you, it wasn't actually me, okay.
It was venient, I guess, not using a headset, because you're close to the mic or something,
but it seems to be corrected now.
It's always saying that PDA device was nice, and then it's like, oh, so that's another
device that comes with a sailfish on it, I like to be interesting, but it's another 500 pounds
device or something, but that's that's the one down for what it's like, isn't it?
The one down for what is kind of interesting, it's a $6.00 device with less of a processor than the
GPDs, and yeah, it's a slightly nicer, smaller form factor, but I think I'd still rather,
if I were going to spend that kind of money, go with the GPD.
GPD pocket and pocket two is a bit bigger, but that's good anyway, it's good, it's quite small,
and plus you can plug in a normal USB keyboard and mouse if you want to do that, you know, it's like,
not sure you can do that with the other one.
The Gemini, it has two USB C plots, so you can be able to get an adapter and then hook up with you.
Yeah, I like how you say adapter now, because yeah, it's USB C stuff, I mean,
you know, the only devices I have that require USB C are quite simply the GPD pocket,
and I think the GPD win as well, and maybe the XD, right?
And everything else is USB, you know, two will have the standard, you know,
roll stuff, and it's just really annoying, because I was doing this event, and it's like,
oh, I need to get that charged up, where's my cable gone for charging? I've got to buy a new cable.
There's a bank there, and now from a shop, it's a customer.
No, that, but if nobody has a USB C charger, then you need this specific USB B to USB C.
Isn't that about the charger quite? It seems to go in a normal charger, you just plug
the cable. Right. Well, the one saving factor of the Gemini is it can be used as a phone,
but I don't, you know, I have no interest in a $600 phone either.
No, well, they're on some sort of USB C. Why have they done that? What was wrong with the old,
you know, the old standard one, their most of these devices I have? Why have they updated it?
I think it was to save space, because this is a, this Gemini is a very thin looking device.
You know, USB C is small though, saying the cable, the cable goes in.
Yes.
So, as a matter of fact, there's not much difference between the security really.
Well, USB C can do video, it can, it's all, it's all thing you're all dancing.
Well, there are different types of USB C, so depending on the type that it is, it's between like,
what, five Mbps all the way up to like 40 Mbps. Yes. Yes, you really, what have you called?
There's a free-node HPL, a whole cast plan. I'm like, you mean, you heard that?
Yeah, thank you. I was going to give them that exact same message.
You can, and you've done text now, that should work, yeah.
But yeah, this USB C, I mean, he just feels like they've kind of updated for the sake of updating
the memory speaking. But maybe you, we can do video and sound like you, somebody just said, but,
you know, I mean,
he has, I understand that USB C can do a whole lot more. And the whole idea is to integrate video,
networking, serial, everything on to one bus type thing. I don't know a lot of the details,
but it's got some pretty cool features. The question is, is how well is it utilized and how well
are all of those features supported and all the devices? And I think we got a ways to go for that
to happen. Well, so it's going to be like the BIOS, the annual PC apparently, which
put a different subject kind of, but there was no standard, they said, and then they came out with all
yeah, you applied nonsense, which, yeah, had some right issues with this laptop, but about a year
ago, but I found the ideal kind of parameter work around to get things working. They like a standard,
like there's no standards, all the devices, things aren't going to be supported, exactly the same
this way, man. You EFI when it came out kind of felt like a direct attack on open source operating
systems. Well, apparently when there's no keys, yeah, OFS or yeah. Yeah, at first, you know, you
couldn't get keys for next to be able to get it to run. I thought everybody got keys relatively
quickly. I felt like Ubuntu and Red Hat that bought keys or got keys right off the bat and
now we're going to just use those. There was a lot of like, when it was, when it was more speculative,
you with the UEFI itself was more speculative, I thought it was more of like the great fear of
they're trying to, you know, keep us out. That's what it felt like. Didn't end up that way, but.
Well, then there was the, you know, I think early last year, I was Microsoft or Intel made the change,
you know, somebody said that no, we were not going to, we're not going to install our software.
I mean, it's actually Microsoft said that, you know, if you make your computer so that you have
to have UEFI key, then, you know, we won't sell you Windows or something. I don't know if that
was them or maybe it was Intel. And I think that was rescinded. So there is the possibility now
of a machine being built that, you know, only runs operating system that it came with.
Yeah, I think Microsoft wanted to do that where some of the laptops or tablets as well or
originally and then that kind of changed a bit. Yeah, that just came out just a couple of months
ago. I think I heard that, but I don't really know what the status of it is now.
Then would UEFI, I mean, yeah, okay, Skull Boot is able to, you know, it's distributing all this,
there's a story, a very true story that was very frustrating. It's a quick, well, say it
means be quickly, I suppose, but. So yeah, I had my laptop here, which one at the moment,
and the motherboard failed. I mean, this HP laptop had problems from day one, it would overheat,
there would be an error in Windows, things overheating and running them up waste of time.
And then it lasted about a year or nearly two years, and then the motherboard failed, had
somebody look at it, couldn't fix it, somebody else couldn't really do it. So I got it sent off
to their partner company to get the motherboard replaced. And I had to pay like £213 to do that,
which was annoying. Somebody said, due to consumer rights law, the laptops were £500 for the work
five years, but I didn't play it, do push for that enough or whatever, I had to pay. And they
came back, and of course, Windows loads up, and all that, so they think it's fixed. So here I am
2017, say, what we call Boxing Day here, I don't know if you did that in America, did they have to
Christmas? Yeah, they have to Christmas Day, we call Boxing Day in the UK, so 26th of December,
and I'm like thinking about, I've done all the Windows updating, I've updated Windows, I've
done all the reboots of my upgrading back to Windows 10, all this, you know, I'm on the
next day, woohoo, and so I got my USB stick for a Ubuntu or something, and I put into the machine,
and it doesn't know that first what it loads up, but then it black screens when I load up a Linux
account, or try to load up the live session, try different USB sticks, same problem, try a few,
with all these black screening, I make, look at the UF5 BIOS, and I basically can't beat my Linux
distro's up, and so in the meantime, I had to use Windows, because I mean Windows worked, so, you know,
and went to my Linux user group, can somebody look at this, can you, you know, never
do anything of such, and then a mentions guy was like, how about trying ACPI equals off as a kernel
parameter, and that loaded it up, but then the Wi-Fi, it turns out, isn't working, and the, it can't
suspend, and things like this, and he says, probably a problem with the Wi-Fi, not having a drive,
I try a driver, no, it should be on there, and I looked around Google myself, a few weeks later,
and I found another kernel parameter, like on the Ubuntu form, somebody was like, I had this problem,
I got a black screen, and basically he said, ACPI, underscore, OSI equals, and I put that in there,
with my, in my kernel parameter in the group, and then it was like magic, it's like magic, it
loads up, the Wi-Fi works, it's spend works, all of this, but it's kind of interesting, because
he's got to be like, sort of honest with the computer, or honest enough, because if you have
nothing, it means nothing, there's an operating system on here, I can't tell you what it is,
so load it up, we can maybe try with Windows or Linux, but on the end of that, and it might work,
or might not work, but it's talking about how that's like being honest with the computer at the same
time, so they're interesting, but yeah, all this because of some slew UFI and my motherboard being
the place, it's been going to be the same motherboard, but I guess it's updated, it's like,
it would update the biose, same problem, either BIOS bug or something, and the UFI, and I still do
really, but I have a workaround for it, so yeah, my minutes work. Right, right, no, I had the ACPI
off issue until very recently, and it had to do with Ubuntu kernel updates that made my particular
motherboard go from working perfectly with suspend and resume, and I could monitor the battery,
and all of that, it just wouldn't load, and I had to use ACPI equals off, and all of that
functionality went away, and then like with the most recent kernel update, I've been able to
remove that from my grub parameters, and everything started working again, so every now and then
you might want to go in and manually delete the ACPI parameters there, and load up and see if it
works, and then if it doesn't just load up again, and you know, don't permanently change until
the thing's exactly in. Well, yeah, I mean like, my ACPI equals off was like what this guy found
for my ANSI's group, and that, so like I said, I tried that, but then my wireless wouldn't work,
and my suspense not working, and things like this, but with your other kernel parameters, so that came
up, it was like the magic workaround, it really was like ACPI underscore OSI operating system
information equal, I assume that sounds cool, and then I put that in, I didn't tell you what
operating system's on, on it, I just put that in, and it all works, the WiFi works, it's like magic,
there's still some sort of workaround for some sort of problem that is still on, I still have
really, but at least I got WiFi working and suspend, and I'm still actually typing in to grab
myself, because I just can't be bothered to go and edit the config file, but I can actually edit
the config file if I want to. Just every now and again, started up without it, and see if it works.
Maybe a new panel or something would fix it, yeah, eventually. Although if it's a problem with
the actual BIOS, the firmware, then I guess that's it, really, isn't it? If there's a bug, they're
not going to fix it, aren't they? Anytime soon. What's there's a BIOS update board? We updated
the BIOS, they still had the same problems, so it was the latest BIOS, and the Ash Mother issue as
well was because I put Windows 10 on what updated the 8.1 back to Windows 10, I couldn't actually
downgrade back far enough to the original say 2015 BIOS, because that would only go back so far
on Windows 10 and third on 8.1, but I might have helped if I could have downgraded far enough
with the BIOS, but I couldn't do that, so yeah. It's all right, Joe. Not much, just, you know,
hanging out with the in-laws. I have a couple of UEFI machines, is there any, which I run,
I don't know, as I don't knowingly run them in UEFI mode, is there, where is the benefit for UEFI?
That's exactly it, there basically is no benefit as a Linux user, because like, for example,
let's just take the classic to put your USB stick up, then you can do it possibly without doing
this now, but you'd have to disable secure boot, so you're basically disabling one of the main
features of UEFI, which is meant to stop the USB sticks loading up because of security anyway,
and I think the generally is no benefit as a Linux user would UEFI quite simply, unless somebody
knows otherwise, but it mostly just calls it problems for people who are running Linux or can do.
Well, also, I think there may be more benefit if you're running Windows, yeah, yeah, Windows.
If you're running, if you're running very, very large disks, what's such as what?
Several terabytes per device.
No, would UEFI give you a benefit?
Well, it allows you to slice the disk without going to extended partitioning.
I'm not sure about that, but possibly, yeah.
You're talking, okay, now, that did come out roughly the same time as UEFI, where the BIOS is
allowed for larger disks to be used as boot disks, but it was really two separate things that
were going on at the same time.
Okay, so it's the GPT partition table that I'm actually thinking of.
No, yeah, the GPT Partitions, yeah, that's the UEFI as well because of how it's
like, set up so that you need like a DPD partition table, that's right.
And then you have to sort of tell it to the distro to like use the UEFI partition to boot
and things like that normally as well.
Okay, it's the GPT partition table that allows you to slice your fork for terabyte disk into, you know,
DPD size chunks, if you want, yeah, yeah, possibly, I don't know about that.
And then I was going to quickly say, and then also with UEFI, because of how it's done again,
you basically have a different version of Grap, and then you have a different, from the old version
that will be for the BIOS. I know that from, you know, Sistrares.
Found an interesting thing from Oracle Law Places, notes on the Sunblade X32B
Administration Guide. UEFI allows you to boot hard drive
partitions larger than two terabytes, support for more than four partitions on a drive, fast booting,
supposedly efficient power and system management, and better reliability and fault management.
Right, so maybe useable servers or something like that, but for average people,
and then if you use as a waver, probably not so much.
Yeah, I don't have a two terabyte boot partition.
No, I think most people say somehow. I don't know, it's storage is getting pretty cheap.
So is it? Yeah, yeah, SSD storage as well.
Odd side note, what is Boxing Day? Say that again? Boxing Day. What is it? Yeah.
I said earlier, yeah. Did you miss that, or did you hear me?
About what Boxing Day is, I heard that you celebrated. I didn't hear what it was.
Most celebrate, well, not exactly, well, kind of, I guess. It's basically,
yeah, you can have like the Boxing Day sales as well, like Christmas Day has been so now they want
to sell out, you know, do you want to sell stuff again, the sale, old Christmas stock possibly,
and it is a bank holiday. So yeah, people get that day off work as well.
Actually, since I looked this up just last week, Boxing Day was the holiday for those
people in service or service industries who worked on Christmas.
Might have been in the past, but now it's like, it's basically a day off for everybody,
it's a bank holiday, and it's about selling some of the old Christmas stock possibly as well.
Well, there are a lot of certain shops will still be closed.
Well, it basically gives the Commonwealth people who celebrate it another Black Friday.
Yeah, well, kind of, yeah. And then they'll say, well, you have like the Boxing Day walk,
when I grew up and stuff, as I cared, you know, like, I think that's a possible
tradition. You would go off for like a walk on Boxing Day with a group of people or something,
or at least we've done that, I say possibly, so it varies a bit.
So I can see that being useful people who have been home with their families over the Christmas
day holiday can get together with their friends and not intrude on the family celebration.
Yeah, it's something that I guess. I mean, it's not really celebrated properly,
but it is like a day off. So yeah, people get that off work and stuff.
And to be honest, I've very few of this bank holiday in England, as they called it,
like days off like that. I was reading that somewhere the other day.
It's like Christmas day, yeah, no one gets the half show pretty much Boxing Day,
and I think Easter has about it, really. And one or two others,
all and two and as full guests as well. And then normally on the Monday.
There's five YouTube's going off. What is it? Maybe the pre-show.
Basically, people get new year's day off as well, most people.
Basically, it sounds like Boxing Day is a little bit the same concept as Labor Day in the US.
Possibly, I definitely don't much try Labor Day, but yeah, possibly.
Well, Labor Day is in September, but it's a day off for businesses.
And that kind of thing, it's not celebrating some event or whatever.
And that's what it sounds like Boxing Day sort of is.
Well, also, there's no, oh, I'm vegetarians anyway, but that's not the point.
There's no, like in America, you know, thanks to hearing the turkey and all this, right?
But in England and the UK, there are, there's no thanksgiving.
You don't have, we don't have thanksgiving, but we do have turkey at Christmas
and the stuffing and things like that. And also, you've got your fourth of July, which was to,
I'm absolutely shouting away, so whatever I can say this.
And to get free from an British, fourth of July, we don't have that obviously, but we have
a bonfire night, the celebration, which is the fifth to remember. That's a good one, actually.
Fireworks and what an excuse for fireworks. So, yeah.
Well, don't you have a guy forks today?
Got a guy forks day, yeah, is that remember?
Pardon my pronunciation, I'm speaking America.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, guy forks. That's what I'm talking about.
That's bonfire night, but all the fifth to remember, guy forks, yeah.
What is that supposed to celebrate?
Sorry, we're forming power limit with a barge load of gunpowder.
There you go.
It didn't come off, but the British are celebrating somebody who gave it a darn good try.
Well, it's what it is and it's, I mean, it's happened in, I think,
16, 0, 0, something without even looking up on Google, whatever, you know, like,
four centuries ago, but it's basically been an excuse to have a bonfire ever since,
and then more recently, fireworks and sparklers and the kids and things like that as well.
Well, actually, just like San Francisco is waiting for the quake,
England is waiting for the mouth of the tent to be up.
It will make guy forks very happy.
There's a ship load of World War II ordnance marking the mouth of the tent.
So they've just been staring around it all this time?
Yes, because nobody wants to build that cat.
Now, also during the war, they stored a bunch of ordnance in some slate mines, some bright chap
had problems removing a fuse from one of the bombs.
So they decided to tap on it with a brass drift, though it was an eruption,
which was the largest non-nuclear explosion in the United Kingdom.
One of the subjects of London's thing that really does annoy me usually,
and I mean, I just watched a film called
Mortal Engines actually that was in the cinema, which was a failed blockbuster that they're
going to lose money on this film a lot of money, but I thought it was basically a book,
it was quite a good film, I thought it was what it was, but okay, fine, it was actually London,
the city that's moving around this film, but this is, but like, you watch the film or TV
show and you got like the British, and they basically have this sort of like,
posh London accent, or it's always the same, like stereotypes, and it could be the,
let's have a cup of tea thing and even, and it's just really annoying sometimes, because
you know, a lot of people don't sound like that actually, who are from the UK,
and yeah, it's just annoying, it's a lot of stereotypes and stuff.
Yes, well, I live in New England, between Boston, Boston, and the people in Maine,
where I have roots, you know, there's a lot of stereotypical stuff up here.
Well, I'm from Texas, and I like beef, and I like Tex-Mex.
Yeah, and you are the stereotype.
Well, when New England is not, is a lot of people in England came now? Is that why it's called New England?
Yes, that's why I live, why we have Boston, from Boston, in England, and well, there's a Cambridge
over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that, some of the names are both
in the UK and in America, and then we got the Texas Cowboy, yeah.
And they're like building tunnels, in both places?
Well, we don't like it, it's just the only way to get around if you're not going to lift the city up,
if you've got to put a road network or a subway network, you have to come on.
I think both places, tunnels are required, how about that?
I was going to say, I was going to say, like, tunnels in Mexico, but that's the wrong state,
isn't it? Everybody like the big dig?
Well, I guess evil is going to come along and fix all the city's force.
I don't know how they're going to affect all the braking.
Actually, there was some grandiose plans to make, to give London a series of ring roads,
which I believe the M25 was the only survivor.
1025, that's, yeah, that's an absolutely amazing awesome road in that, when it's very, very busy,
oh yeah, oh yeah, totally.
For those in the northeast, did the M25 is basically 128 with half the lanes?
The M25 is just an awful motorway when it's busy,
you know, it's about all you can say about it, but I don't live near that, so I don't need to
really have anything skill in that road usually.
What I'm fascinated by is first the fact that they're building new canals, and we talk about
terrible public transportation, but the good doctor in the 60s did his best to decapitate
the British NIC whale network. Can you do a fairly good job?
The thing with the whale whale network in England and
but I suppose the whole of the UK really, all the main bits, whales, England and
Scotland, I guess as well, but definitely England. There's a few things here. One,
the trains are known to be delayed or late compared to say the mainland of Europe,
where they're known to be on time a lot, and that's one point to the prices are going up like
crazy each year, like they just start the prices twice last year or three times or four times,
and people are not happy because the service on these trains is not that great, even in first class,
it's not particularly, you know, it's not that great, and then the railway lines themselves aren't
maintained that well, and I'm saying that a lot of lines are actually closed from the past and
still are when it could be open. It's just, it's just, it's just not particularly good.
Well, for what you actually get for your money and then like say, oh, but we're going to change
the lines and you need to get money for that. But luckily again, I don't have to go on a train
to work every morning, whereas I'm pretty much every morning where a lot of people do, so I don't
have that problem. I can go on a train about once a year and that's it for a Linux
event, probably. Well, I've studied the British rails and it was an interesting situation.
They privatized the thing, yet the privatized rail system is still heavily subsidized.
Oh, yes, it's supposed to go under government control, but they haven't, it's not quite happened,
as companies are still responsible and all that as well. Well, you see, there are no companies
that are responsible all the way up. You have network rail, which allegedly owns the rail
infrastructure. The people running the trains are a myriad of other companies and trying to
coordinate between these companies and everybody getting their slice of of the fare and everything
is amazingly well bureaucratic. They were showing one place where they'd put back
a connection on a certain route so that you would have to go to
you use when they improved the route. They cut basically a Y and you would have to go
basically to an intermediate city and then change trains and they said, well, by putting
this leg of the Y-back, they would resolve that problem. Well, they put the track back,
but in order to get trains scheduled back on and it would take several months.
Yeah, it sounds about right. It would take, yeah, the work could be a little time and money
and they wouldn't be ready by a certain time to originally say it and all of this.
And also, we had that there was an idea to have the HT2L, I think, was called a really high
fast speed train between Birmingham and London, I think it was, yeah. And I believe that that
recently got scrapped as well, the whole idea. And yeah, it's one that would go on about
and then use a lot of times before. There's massive electrification projects going on too.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. So a lot of the lines are not actually
electric yet. They were doing the lines around here recently or part of them electrifying,
buying them. So yeah, there's that as well. And then you have Crossrail, which is
extending effectively, extending the continental rail network through Britain.
Which one? Crossrail. What's Crossrail? It is extending the channel through London.
Which tunnel? Channel. Channel. Channel. Oh, channel. C-H-U-N-N-E-L.
That's why I thought you said, it was a thing like that, yeah. The tunnel under the channel.
Yeah, right, as you were, so the channel tunnel. I'm not sure about that. And the other thing
with that, I mean, you got a better mind that I don't know if you've followed British politics
or you probably didn't get much for it on your news and facts. Whereas we get a lot of the
Donald Trump stuff over here. Oh, yeah. But I'm sure you've heard of this little thing called
not a little bit like a big thing called Brexit, which is about to happen. Or in some form,
or probably in its absolute mess. There's a deal, they can't agree on it. And your
commission want this. And then the MPs here can't agree on it. It's an absolute mess.
And I assume the channel tunnel will get affected as well, you know, if seen enough.
Well, well, yes, for one thing, where are they going to put the customs stations?
Well, yeah, I suppose, yeah. And the border controlled and all the rest of it, yeah.
Also, England is leaving the EU. I have not heard whether Scotland and Wales have signed on.
Now, the thing is, the thing is right, the UK is leaving the EU because there is a joint,
you know, it's joined together. So that's England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
That's all joined together as a UK, which means the UK is leaving the EU. A lot of the people
in Scotland, most of the people in Scotland voted remain, but regardless of that, they basically
have to leave the EU as well because they are part of the UK. And so, yeah, so that's the problem
with Northern Ireland as well, because the border there with the actual island, which is in the EU
and all that. And then on top of that, we have a little place called, which might have heard of,
called Gibraltar, which is, I've been there, it's a rock and it's from, by the sea, it's kind of
in Spain, really, but they wouldn't be British, so there's slight problems there, but
especially the Irish issue. Well, anywhere where you have a road across the airport is a problem.
Gibraltar, yeah, it's true, you go in through, yeah, yeah, it's true, the road goes through the
the bum, well, I remember that. But both Scotland and Wales have their own legislature, don't they?
They do, but they do, to an extent, but then you have to like, overall UK government, who say,
no, this is how it is, we are all in charge. Yes, you have your first minutes of Scotland and your
Welsh, first minutes there and all this, but you have like an overall UK law, who says, no, this
is how it is. And also actually, okay, a lot of the people in Scotland, like I said,
most of them remain, but actually a lot of the Welsh, despite having a lot of European
funding for certain things over there, from the EU, actually voted leave, so yeah, a lot of
those Welsh voted leave, both of the Welsh voted leave, it seems. Well, what I'm saying is, you have,
once Britain makes an exit, the Scottish may say, well, we like the deal before and we would like
to have some self-determination. The thing with the Scottish is, they have a referendum in 2014
for this. You want to leave the UK and it was like, no, we'll stay in the UK and they can't just
have another referendum because the trees are May in this case, whoever's Prime Minister of UK
has to basically agree for Scotland to have another referendum to go independent. But people know
that if you allow that to happen now, there's a very good chance that Scotland would be like, yeah,
we're leaving the UK and if they got to leave the UK at the top of that, they could potentially
join the EU as a new country, but it's not absolutely messed this thing. Well, yeah, that's what I'm
saying is that you would have what Canada had back in the independent month Quebec days. What was
that? What was the Canada have? The French-speaking Canadians would like to have succeeded from Canada.
They should do the same thing that they're doing with Brexit, if they're going to have a
second referendum on it. Did the death be sort of talk about how that can maybe happen?
There's a way to undo it, maybe even without having to ask the EU properly, but it's not very likely
and I think this is going to happen in some form regardless. Plus, if there was a second
referendum, most people are educated now about what might happen, then they were originally,
so it would probably be a remain vote winning overall, and they have to push for a leave anyway in
the Conservative Party. That's an absolute mess. I think the fundamental question, oh, sorry,
actually, what the Scottish can do without leaving Britain is invent Hong Kong.
May Hong Kong, is that what you said? In Vent Hong Kong.
Yes, it's a special economic district. You do not have to have the entire Scotland to go
go EU. Just have somebody decide that a certain county or counties are in a special economic
district that would like to interface with the EU.
I see what you're saying, but it's a bit like you could probably say the same thing for Northern
Ireland, but there's an actual landlord here. That's the other issue with that one. That's the
only country in the whole of the UK that actually has a landlord with the EU. So yeah, there's a big
thing there going on from that one. Yes, well, then, you know, whenever if somebody plays,
you know, the Brexit march, Irish eyes are smiling. No, I think, I don't know, it ain't quite a
stand, but I think, no, I think a lot of people in Northern Ireland, again, they want to stand
the EU. They don't want to go separate. I'm saying the Republic of Ireland is the nation of
Ireland is going to be laughing all the way to the bank because they now are part of the EU
and sort of Britain is going to be sandwiched sandwiched between French, EU and Irish EU.
Well, people in Northern Ireland somehow have the Irish passports, which say you,
that's one point. And also, a lot of this is about trade and money and company and big business.
So the biggest trade, you know, Ireland does a lot of trade with UK currently. And also,
even Germany does a lot of trade. They sell the cast of Britain and things like this.
And it's a lot of it is big business as well, not wanting Brexit to happen because of this.
But I think most of the countries would want to say in the EU actually, most people in these
EU countries. Oh, I'm sure, but I'm just saying the nation of Ireland is going to be an even
bigger interface to the EU than, right, not Britain itself was connected to the EU. Well, when they
when they Brexit, they're cutting their ties to the French continent connections through France,
but people will still want to trade so that so the centre of gravity for trade could could head west.
I'm going to go through Ireland, yeah, maybe, but well, but I said I would have to have similar
trade laws because they're both EU states, France and Ireland.
So they have to basically follow the same laws for the most part, the same rules.
I'll be back in a moment, but I will, there's an interesting parallel that I'll mention
based on the making of 12 o'clock high.
Mickey from around 12 o'clock, yeah. Somebody else turned up, I think. Anybody else there?
Yeah, I'm back here. Sorry, I had to jump out of the conversation with you about an hour or two
ago. Well, when we were about year five, was it? Oh, I think it was about immigration in the US.
Hey, if I haven't part of that one, that was a pretty good conversation.
I guess now's not a time for one of those comments about you all sound the same.
I won't sound the same, I'm from a different country.
Well, back in the days of 12 o'clock high, they were flying the 17s with all sorts of blank firing
guns and whatnot loaded aboard across the Atlantic and they landed in the Azores.
Wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
No more way from. I'm from a past of Texas.
Okay, so you sound a bit different, but yeah, the other ones I agree they sound pretty much the same
because it's an American accent and I will sound different because I'm from a different country.
Well, yeah, I was saying I thought I had a conversation with you earlier, but maybe you're saying
that it was someone else. Yeah, yeah, probably. Let's have this story story from Netmino,
wherever it was. Carry on. Well, the day for some reason, weather or whatnot, they had to fly
from the Azores to Portugal and land. Portuguese customs was a little upset, but somebody pointed
out that going from the Azores to Portugal was a local flight. Right, yeah.
To have is flights from France to Ireland are going to be EU flights. They're not international.
The thing, the plane is another one. Yeah, I mean, like the idea is like an idea, if there's a
no, if there's a hard Brexit, there's no deal that basically, or what, or maybe it's the old idea,
and it can be, it's like, no, I think more recently it was like you can, there will be a lot of
fly into the EU from the UK, but then they can't go anywhere beyond that, basically, and you can't
have UK airlines can't have flights inside the EU either, go between different EU countries,
and an all this kind of stuff as well. And then in the emergency, I guess there's a
exception so that this plane is going to crash, so we need to land in the EU. I believe the British
phrase sticky wicket is going to be very familiar to many people from the EU.
Now, only a sign filled watchers. What was that? It's a just a sign filled watchers.
And also, I mean, there should be a trade deal with, well, I think there will some
rule, some might, if it's on the transition thing, you can't, UK can't actually make trade deals,
I would say, just yeah, we say America, or Japan, or China, or whatever, commonwealth countries,
maybe. So there's like, there would have some control over the UK, if there's like a transition
period that hasn't just left completely, because it took like two years of back, and if it
gave with a current deal, there's less control as well that it's being proposed, and it's
it's an absolute, it's an absolute mess. Just wanted to break in to say happy new year to
people in the central time zone, Midwest United States being included. Happy new year, 50.
Yeah, happy new year, everyone. Happy new year. Happy new year, it's just been
new year a few hours already. And it looks like the, for some reason 2019 is actually allowing America
to enter it now as well, as in it hasn't like exploded or something, but yeah.
Well, we should, since the time zones, I believe, go across the border, we should also
welcome our Canadian friends in the central time zone, happy new year.
Yes, happy new year, parts of Canada then, and there's no, I don't think there's any Canadians
on here at the moment, but they might be listing some of them, but they would probably say
the best is on the American anyway. And they are better. Happy new year, it jingles wherever you are,
my favorite British YouTuber. Probably sleeping at this time. Actually, I think he's in Prague.
Well, he's sleeping then, or just waking up if he's in Prague, yeah. He may have come home,
he was going to be in Prague over Christmas. Happy new year from Chicago. Yeah, Chicago,
which comes up as being a rough city sometimes on these documentaries, but how rough is it really?
And crime and things like that. I'm in the suburbs.
There you stand. Well, the criminals are protected by the best gun control laws in America.
What has it allowed to have? No, on his citizen is the restrictions on guns, guns in Chicago are very
tight, and the murder rate is accordingly quite high. Actually, are you a bearer span?
I don't watch sports much, but my wife is a bearer span. I should watch a little bit more sports
because I've got the sky sports stuff at the moment for three years under a deal that was okay.
Well, I will note that the Cubs won the pennant by importing a manager from Boston.
So I saw something that was sort of interesting today. 2019 is exactly halfway between
Y2K and the end of the 32-bit Unix epoch. So does that mean that we're going to have a
doomsday scare again? Everybody's going to be using 64-bit by then, not?
Oh, is this the one where basically 30-bit processors will not know to date and time anymore
because of some reason that we'll think of as well? Well, the 32-bit time stamp will roll over,
and it will all of a sudden become 1969 again. Yeah, yeah, the day in Canada can't go any further,
is that what it is? Well, actually, if things are declared properly,
it should be possible to run 32-bit systems that just that they haven't been able to
can write the structures yet. When will that happen? When will it stop and go back to
2038? January 19th, I think, of 2038. Oh, so, no until 2038, that's the last day. Yeah, yeah,
I think I've been reading this, but then the whole idea was that a lot of these 32-bit machines will
probably not believe you're around as such anymore by then anyway, so if they are, then
it's probably you can just pretend it's 1969 or you know, use some other device to tell the time and date.
Yeah, I expect it to be about as big of a event as Y2K. That is not really that big of an event.
And Y2K was mostly a marketing thing, wasn't it? I said with all these problems and all that
didn't happen. Well, actually, but nothing happened. I thought that was because most of the
because a lot of people work really hard to fix that problem. That's why nothing actually happened.
I think there's something to that. Yeah, I mean, I think there would have been some big problems,
had some work not been done. But I think it was a little bit overblown, too, as well.
Sure. I can't quite think what the Millennium Bug was now, and white KB, I would like to
the idea that was, these are things we're going to get rolling. I can't remember quite now.
Mine's a little bit blank, but remind me. It was two-byte ASCII dates rolling over to 0-0 when
a lot of stuff had been programmed only to be 1900 through 1999. They assumed that 19 in front of
the year number. So Y2K would have reset everybody's dates to 1900. No way. It's like this 32-bit thing,
but I don't need effects and servers and things like that. Well, things that really have to
have the right time and date. Yeah, well, the number of things that have to have the right time and
date when they're looking at access times and whatnot on your computer's substantially. However,
if they get the structures right, which is a large if and start converting, whether it's 32-bit
or 64-bit, the structures will be incorporated. Yeah, I guess. I think this is one of those things
that a lot of people who a lot of companies that still rely on older hardware because there's
a lot of companies out there who build these systems and then because it works, just leave it alone.
So there's a lot of stuff out there that whether you think that there's still parallel ports and
token ring networking going on, there is. It's just not that often and they're like non-updated
systems that's, you know, something that some companies, some bankers, some shoppers,
something owns that they just it works so they don't do anything to it and it is so outdated that
there may be some 32-bit servers out there that when this thing goes through it might actually hit.
Granted by that time, I think 2038, that's kind of a long shop for a lot of them, but, you know,
it could be out there. Well, that's that's like a lot of your ATMs are still running OS 2.
By the way, there is a reverse engineered OS 2 called ARCA OS that is alive and kicking
at least with at least one foot. It surely cobalt will be dead by 2038.
You know, everyone thought that it was going to be dead by 2010. Yeah, I don't think cobalt's
ever going to die all for Tram. Well, hopefully not for Tram. Let's see, the programming language,
like cobalt and Pascal where people have programmed things like, you know, banking software and
stuff like that, where some people can still get work at doing because there are so many people
who have, you know, don't know that type of programming language anymore and they got to fix
these things or update them or whatever. I'm still a Pascal fan, thank you.
It's a slightly different point in a way, but, but the latest, I guess it, I mean,
in the Linux kernel, it's like, you know, I'm seeing an article about how they're like in the
40s now and it's like, who's going to be the next generation of Linux kernel developers and it's
sort of, you know, it's a program that's got like over 7 million lines of code of the web now.
And so a lot of this is, you know, yeah, it's a good point. Who's going to be working on
various things in, say, 20 years time and certain things that you've got dropped as well. So,
or pretty much like even Xorg goes to Wayland because again, it will an old legacy program that's
complicated and only so many people now to develop it. So they have to do something different
from Wayland. But they give up on Wayland. Well, sorry, so again. So I thought they'd give up on
Wayland. I think they're coming on Wayland, aren't they? Yeah, but they're going to replace
Xorg, wouldn't they? They're going to give up on it's the Ubuntu that gave up. Yeah, but Ubuntu
have Mer, which was their own sort of things similar to Wayland to an external web. They're
given up on Mer, yeah. The Wayland is still going on as far as I know. Actually, Mer is still alive
and well. It is being... Oh, yeah, I.O.T. wasn't that was me? No, it's being Mer is being refocused as a
compositor for Wayland. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds like I think that might be the way. By the way,
any... This is the non-taritan, taritan solution. Mer developers would rather switch than fight.
Yeah, the Mer developers are trying to make themselves into the independent Wayland compositor
that if you want to put your XFCE or whatever on, come on down. No, the bait is that, let's see,
Wayland is not needed, system is not needed, and BTFS and all that kind of stuff is not needed.
And some people really believe in that and keep an insist on using distros that
don't support these things, basically. But, you know, I kind of sort of learned timers on
system D, so now I'm okay with it. Now, if you're using DuVian or a lot of the... You're
finding... I was... It was reported that a lot of the software is rapidly aging because
they haven't really got substitutes for the system D. They will allow you to comply all
things like a modern firefight. Yeah, yes, faves, yeah. Now, because system D is taken over
a large chunk of the Linux universe, it's no longer in a purely internet system or anything.
It's becoming a backbone of the kernel, and if you try to have a Linux system without the
backbone, you end up with a jellyfish. Well, like I said earlier, I'm still slackware, guys,
and not only do we not have system D, we still don't even have an ITD. It's like we're used.
It uses kind of a custom thing that is sort of similar to the BSD RC.D in its system.
To be honest, really, as a... I'm not really a developer, I've any way, but as a user,
I mean, I kind of really care less about these things, as long as it, you know,
boots up and all that, and it works enough. But I know that some people are totally
they care so much about these things yet. Well, it's also users come up with the first question in
any OS fat. Can it run my software? Well, yeah, I don't know, it's Cameron. Most of the
standards software that most people would actually want, and then you could debate, they come
that gamers, it might not quite cater for, but if you're one of the use, you know, Firefox,
and the office or something and all that kind of stuff, it's absolutely fine.
Well, the question is, how does Slackware run a modern Firefox or library office or whatnot?
It runs it just fine, as far as I know.
That's the compiling, yeah. Well, sure, but I mean, it comes with the distribution.
Those things, Firefox and Libra Office, well, not Libra Office. Firefox comes with the distribution.
Libra Office, you can install or you can compile with a, what they call a Slack build script.
It's a script that just, you just run the script, it untars the source and compiles it like it
needs to and everything just works most of the time. Now, how do you get updates?
Well, the, I mean, the packages that come with the distribution are updated, and there's a
variety of tools that you can use to grab those and install those, but they are distributed by
the distribution as binary packages. A lot of the other packages, though, you have to build
yourself and there's a repository out there called slackbuilds.org, and it's not a repository of
binary packages. It's a repository of Slack build scripts that you can use to compile and make
packages out of all manner of software that's out there, and there's tools to make doing that
easier and so forth, but that's kind of the process. But you have largely a more, may I say,
BSD style build process, the portage type setup? Yeah, it's a little bit like that. I guess you
would say it's not quite the same as that, but yeah, there's some parallels there in terms of,
yeah, you build the packages from a set of scripts, and then like I said earlier, the, the init
system is, is an RC dot D, there's an Etsy RC dot D, and then there's just a bunch of scripts
in there that, that do the init stuff for the various services and so on, which is sort of similar
to what BSD at least used to be as well. So it's a bit like system B init? Well, I mean,
system D is as big monolith as far as I understand. I mean, it's just, it's just bash scripts as all
it is. No, I'm saying system V. Oh, yes, yes, yes, correct. Pardon my pronunciation. But like I say,
it, I still like Slack where a lot on a server where I'm, I'm basically running, you know,
a handful of services, and I want it to want those services to run and run well on a work station
where you want all kinds of software and, you know, user interface software and stuff. It's a bit
challenging. And so that's why I've moved on from on the workstation point of view. So what do you
usually work station? I'm using Ubuntu, the XFCE version. So this is Ubuntu, I guess they call it.
What's interesting with with me and I'm doing Ubuntu or at least XFCE Ubuntu is that there
appears to be a significant difference between let's say the the Ubuntu core running
whatever desktop and the the flavored package. Ubuntu is a lot more than XFCE plus let's say
Ubuntu server. Right. The Ubuntu team does a lot of work to try to put their own kind of sauce on
the things. You're your own sort of trim and chrome and styling and, you know, branding, well,
you know, branding option. Right. It's not just Ubuntu with XFCE on it, XFCE on it, it's Ubuntu.
What I'm going to be fascinated by and I'm looking forward to the next LTS is LXQT.
50's been using LXQT recently, aren't you? I've tried LXQT before, but it was a bit,
it was like two years ago, but yeah, LXT is being replaced by that as far as I know.
Yeah, I'm running LXQT right now. Yeah, it looks like a basic KDA shame or something like that,
yeah. Well, if you just do the QT right now, it's in transition, but if you do the QT side,
it seems to be KDE light. What do you mean just if you just do the QT? Well,
the in Ubuntu on when you do LXQT or LXDE, let's say on 1804, 1804 is still hybrid known QT.
So you can select LXQT in the QT flavor where everything's not quite translated. In the next
long term edition, I suspect everything will be translated to QT.
Yeah, yes, but you mean the how Ubuntu, I say Ubuntu on there, for example, Firefox is actually
made for DCK and another program as well, but you would be running in that, is that what you mean?
Well, I'm saying that right now, LXQT has some LXDE genome components, but those components are
being translated or replaced by QT only component. Oh, yeah, LXD, I suppose it did use DCK.
Like I said, I'm used that phrase either. Yeah, that makes sense. They're trying to get rid of the
DCK things to be replaced completely by the cute stuff. I mean, I just was going to say swing as well.
I think earlier, and then we said, hold on. How are you doing on LXQT?
Can't complain. It doesn't quite solve the problems of having Firefox. I think that may be just
hardware on this machine. I make it up my other laptop and replace it. Replace this eventually
is the desktop I'm using all the time, because I don't have that many tabs open in Firefox,
and it'll just get where it's dog slow, so it's the whole system down, and I either have to restart
Firefox or I have to restart the whole system. Now, does that have the defaults, QT apps like
Dalton and Conqueror and stuff like that? Conqueror. Conqueror is actually gone now, isn't it?
Isn't it isn't really worked on the mobile? I don't know. I was just trying to come up with some
of the QT apps that I can think of. Well, I didn't really see a whole lot of, you know,
not like when you install KDE. It's not like you automatically got Dalton or something like that.
Okay. It just meant to be a more lightweight desktop interface,
update like XSE or LXQT. Well, okay, form the LXQT if you like, and things like that. I cannot
open box. That's a little bit too lightweight in this context, but yeah. It sounds like
XSE is going to be pulling in the place of the LXDE for low-spec hardware.
Why do you think LXQT is high-respect than XSE? Also, Marta is probably okay on most old computers,
yeah. Well, I'm just saying that XSE, when you start putting in the richness of the KDE
environment and the QT environment, things fadden up pretty fast. Right. By the way, I'm not saying
anything against them for fairly recent hardware. It's just that I'm running some dinosaurs.
Say that once it said a thousand times, when it comes to low-spec hardware,
desktops, I have always liked the Lightman.
Playing with Enlightenment, I mean, that haven't seen it for probably about a year or two,
probably about a year or two, I think. But I did try it out a bit, you know, when it
got a sort of flashy, blingy type feel, and then also you got those a theme sort and so on.
And that's the impression I got. So, yeah.
I like that. That was the E17, the E17, yeah. E17.
Well, it's about, I think if you go through like Rx, there's 21 or 22 out right now.
But the thing with it, I always enjoyed about Enlightenment was just the fact that some of them,
desktops give you the ability to configure some of the things. Enlightenment seems to give you
the opportunity to configure just about everything to the way you want it to look.
And the way you want it to feel, and the way you want it to act.
If you couldn't go into the menus and the settings, then you could probably just get,
you can get it set up to just look like any other desktop environment without having to add
any extra themes or anything like that. And it works, it's light, it's very, very lightweight.
And it looks really, like you said, it's flashy. It looks really nice. Oh, I always enjoyed it.
E17, so, okay, you said it's E22, or some more recent version, I'm sure. But
going by what I remember, E17, is that, yeah, it was just seen flashy, and it has your effects
in that. But then it kind of wore off, and it felt more like a toy, really, than a serious
interface for doing, you know, you know, computer things. And you could, you could, you could,
the Baton's here at Clown Shell, it has been like that, more so in the past as well. And even now,
a bit, I do find that, it's more blingy that as well. And then if you want to actually do some,
like, proper task on a computer or work or something, then you, then you probably want to run
something like FSE, or Marta, or UC7, possibly, or Katie, even, but something, you know,
something with less effects, depending what you're doing on the computer.
Well, you don't need to have the effects. My, my, my point was that you can set that, you
can set up an enlightenment system to look like, stable, de-effects, yeah. Sure, but you can set it
up so it looks like, obviously, it couldn't, it's going to have a harder time looking like KDE,
but KDE is kind of tight in some of the, the way you can set it up to look, but you can make it look
like Marta, XFCE, anything else for that matter. But you have the ability to kind of set things up
the way you want it to be set up. I mean, it, it isn't just all flexion with on. I don't see why
it would, one would be, you like, you couldn't, like, I, I don't understand the comment of,
when you wanted to really get down and do some hard work, you have to go and text FCE,
or refer, Marta, or something like that, I don't understand that comment.
Well, I, I just said, based on this on E17, I haven't used a recent version of enlightenment.
I'm going by, well, I remember E17, so yeah, that's obviously a bit old now anyway.
But I remember when I tried it out, it just seemed very, so it just seemed sort of,
yeah, it was flashy and it was a bit, probably more fun than a serious, like, work in face.
But, you know, I'm talking about, like, probably talking like two years ago here, so, you know.
I think you're also just like classic KDE, it's how much effort into being, to using the
turnability that you want to put into it. Well, it's also, I mean, once you kind of know the system,
I can, like, after I first set up a system, I can set up my enlightenment system to, I don't
care whether it's E17 or E22, E21, E19, whatever, I can set it up to the way I like my desktop
be set up relatively quickly, because it's, you know, I usually have some icons on the bottom for
the quick, for my quick launching things, I usually have them hidden. I know how to set that up
really quickly, and I usually have the top bar being, you know, where my running applications are
task bar and stuff like it's time clock and whether things are connected or all up at the top.
So I could set that up relatively quickly, just maybe because I've been using enlightenment
for so long that, I mean, I shouldn't have wade try and like, again, in this, in the soul of a
bunch who I've gotten out of the minute, I'm not going to do it because I've had issues where,
if you keep on pettings, I think there's a bug in a bunch who or something, I should,
I need to put my G or something on there as well anyway, but if I put interfaces on at times,
or it was been doing it, it sort of goes wrong and I'm end up in the terminal and stuff.
So I just leave this as it is for a minute, but yeah, I should give enlightenment a go in something
on the other again, really, because it's, it probably has a progress a lot since E17 anyway,
like you seem to be saying. Yeah, that's what I want to, that's why I really want to dig into boxes,
being able to put on relatively pure Linux distros without having to worry about loading things up
to compile the guest editions. But that's about boxes, do you mean that's about so? No boxes.
No boxes. I know that's in that, I've never used name boxes. Have you had any more,
have you tried using no boxes anymore recently? I haven't dug into it and the documentation seems
to be touring complete, but not very detailed. It seems to be one of those things that you're
going to have to go in and trial and error, trial and error, trial and error, and by the time you're
done, we're going to hope we're going to expect you to make us a little YouTube video on the proper
way to use it. I would suggest you'll be walking from Provincetown to Newbury port first.
It was Newbury port. At North Shore? That sounds like a bike race. No, that's just walking across
mass bay. And it doesn't pan, it's not like the pan-mass in reverse. It's relatively straightforward,
you just sort of hit North West. I'll have to back up about an hour or so to P-town first and then
start my walk. Well, yes, but besides walking across Boston Harbour is going to be pretty tiring.
But the scenery is lovely. Yes, well, I'm more inner harbour, well, down in the South Shore.
Steve, for some reason we can't hear you, but I think you're muted. Steve, your lips are lighting
up, but I couldn't hear anything. And I can't tell whether it's you or Bennett that's muted.
I don't see either one of them muted. I didn't think my vision had gotten that blurry yet.
Yeah, I don't think Steve muted. Yeah, I was going to say come take it turn off and come back
on again, close it down and come back on. I think he's doing that or has done that.
Yeah, try and speak against if you just close, mumble down and reloaded it. No, try again.
You might need sort of voice whizzes against when you're the next word.
You would try to find a minute ago. Or you can do a, even though it's a Linux issue,
where you shoot me on, you can do a, uh, windows and terribly enough leave reboot a computer and come
back and let it might just work. Yeah, what's funny is this version of the mumble that I have,
every time I log into mumble, I have to go through the configuration wizard, go through all the
settings and they're real quick. Or when I try to log on, it just won't work. Every time you load
up it, you have to do the configuration with the voice. This is a test message. You're talking about
that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. How about now? Can you hear me now? Hey, no more. Yeah, yeah. Yes,
you're knowing that wizard stuff and today Steve, what was the problem with your speaker, your
microphone? Well, I'm not sure. I'm using a USB headset and maybe it freaked out. I just unplugged
it and plugged it back in and then restarted mumble and now apparently it's working. Cool.
USB headset as well. I had no problems with this one. Yeah, I haven't had a problem until now,
so, uh, who knows, something freaky, I suppose. A buddy of mine who used to work on the big
Honeywell machines, the big 36 fitters when they were room-filling machines said broken hardware
will do what it wants. And if the hardware decides to be broken, it will be broken.
Indeed. So what I was going to say before is I was, I'm still on the gnome boxes. I hadn't really
been familiar with that. Is that basically just a, a replacement for vert manager? That's what it
kind of looks like from the Wikipedia page. Yeah, it's only like a gnome virtual box, but it lets you
run things as, uh, NetMiner, you can describe it better. You can run things better as routes I
forgot. Actually, think of it as a Linux, uh, version of virtual box. Isn't it a bit like KVM or
something that was gruff could use in face? I mean, you would use KVM? Yes, yes it is, but what I'm
saying is if you think of it as, as the virtual box interface and the setup protocols and everything
that you're used to in virtual box, but done using Linux tools and Linux environments.
I've done, yeah, I've done the gnome way using the gnome tools. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. Right. I mean, I'm very familiar with QMU, KVM and LibVirt. It's just, I usually use,
there's a GUI application called vert manager that, um, that is kind of part of the whole LibVirt thing
that I've had a vert manager somewhere as well. Right. And so this looks like kind of a replacement
for that, which is cool. Well, if you think of, you think of it as a wrapper for, for all those tools,
vert manager, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if betting like they go clean games as well,
haven't they, it's allowed you to play games with, uh, their graphical using face or whatever.
Well, vert manager is getting a little bit, I kind of long into tooth, if you will, or it's,
it's not very, not very pretty and not very user friendly by today's standards. And so,
I'm guessing they're addressing that here. Also, the reason I call it the virtual box for Linux
is that it seems, again, I haven't rooted my first machine with it. It seems to have a lot of
the connectivity stuff. And, you know, maybe display management and stuff like that that you get
with a, with a virtual box and interconnection stuff and whatnot so that it's a much more painless
experience. Does the networking work easier? I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna quickly say this as a
half joke. It doesn't matter because virtual box for the win, yeah. Well, the thing I like about
libvert and vert manager and stuff is that, I mean, I have, I have several servers that run virtual
machines and I can fire a vert manager on my local workstation and access virtual machines running
on the server, which I don't know if you can do that with virtual box. And I suppose you probably
can with this known desktop, known boxes thing. That's exactly what known boxes big deal is its
ability to reach out and touch other machines and other services on distant machines. Again,
I haven't worked this stuff out. This is going to be, you know, this is going to be a learning
cliff system. Yeah, that sounds interesting, but we're in a way regardless of that. That sounds
very interesting if you've got other machines. And, you know, it's like virtual box is generally
people's like, you know, you say something, you can do that from machine, you'll go virtual boxes
and let's use that. Well, you might just say VMware, if you're a bit more old schools, well, you
might go, yeah, there's a VMware player or something as well. You don't, people don't really go,
yeah, you're okay, you can do a virtual machine where you've been operating system inside an
operating system. You can use this, you know, boxes like, you know, nobody says down the support
channel, do they? Or you can run this KVM thing where you can, but, but, but, man, joy can run,
it's, you know, we virtual box, virtual box, at least in the bunch here and stuff, we virtual
box, virtual box recommended. But, I'm just, we've got these other things again as well, of course,
that they're there and that you can use them for certain things you can't do with virtual box,
even. You just gave an example, it seems. Well, what none boxes seems to be is a way to do virtual
box type stuff without the many interface layers that makes virtual box easy to use. I mean, you know,
the complete, the virtual box environment is luxurious, but it also requires, first, you,
you have to have the extensions, the extension pack, and then you have to have the
extension pack. Well, the extension pack is only for some extra features and virtual box to actually
proprietary otherwise. And also, this, the, the tarry, whatever he's called, just turned up,
but yeah, the weird noise when it did the microphone, I think, try again, let's see, try your
microphone again, I guess. Well, that, well, that sounds odd. I think you need to see the
mumble voice configuration again, or reload mumble or something like that. No pistil squeaks,
squeak. Some reason swing rolling there. You've got the chipmunk setting turned on. Is there
actually a chipmunk setting? Was that a joke? Yeah, he's got a feed his mumble banana. Hey, guys,
I think I'm going to bug out. I've got some things to do in the morning. And so I'm going to call
a quits for tonight. It's been good talking to everybody. Happy new year. Happy new year. I'll
go in about an hour and a bit as well, but don't just yet. All right, catch you all later. I wanted
to ask was Steve one of the new mint casters? No. No, Joe is though. Well, we got one in here.
I just wanted to say good work picking up the mantle. It's still a good show and you guys make it
good and better. Thank you. Picking up the mantle. It's still a good show and you guys make it
good and better. Thank you. I'm glad people are enjoying it.
You've been listening to Hacker Public Radio at HackerPublicRadio.org. We are a community podcast
network that releases shows every weekday Monday through Friday. Today's show, like all our shows,
was contributed by an HBR listener like yourself. If you ever thought of recording a podcast,
then click on our contributing to find out how easy it really is. Hacker Public Radio was founded
by the digital dog pound and the infonomicon computer club and it's part of the binary revolution
at binwreff.com. If you have comments on today's show, please email the host directly, leave a
comment on the website or record a follow-up episode yourself. Unless otherwise status,
today's show is released on the create of comments, attribution, share a live 3.0 license.