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Episode: 3258
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Title: HPR3258: Linux Inlaws S01E22: The Linux Professional Institute
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Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3258/hpr3258.mp3
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Transcribed: 2025-10-24 19:50:50
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---
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This is Haka Public Radio episode 3258 for Wednesday, 27th of January 2021.
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To main show in entitled, Linux In-Loneness 01822, the Linux Professional Institute and in part
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on the series, Linux In-Lon, it is hosted by Monochrome, and in about 69 minutes long,
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and Karim and exquisite flag.
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The summary is the ChapSto7 LaborVitch from the LPI.
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This episode of HBR is brought to you by AnanasThost.com.
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Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15.
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That's HBR15.
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Better web hosting that's honest and fair at AnanasThost.com.
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This is Linux In-Los, a podcast on topics around free and open-source software, any associated
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content,
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content,
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content,
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content,
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content,
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content
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content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content, content
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content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content content
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And that involved high quality education programs and we go into the conclusion that it required some kind of a certification program
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And so at the time the big players and certification were Microsoft and Novel and a couple of other players let it. Red Hat was just starting with the RHC program
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But we at least our own community said that we needed to do something different from the kind of certifications that were out there. That if we're going to go open source then the certification that was going to work also needed to reflect a little bit of that spirit which means if we were going to do a certificate properly. It had to be something that was a distribution neutral. It had to be something that didn't require you bought a certain specific
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manuals or documentation in order to pass certification. And so we had this discussion group that was going on saying this is what we need. And John Maddog Hall, who is hope well known to many people in the community, connected us with another mailing list that was started by Dan York.
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Another person he was a professional IT instructor just getting into open source. And so we had Dan who was an instructor getting into open source.
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And then we had myself who was a source enthusiast and advocate that was getting into the field of education. We were brought together and we effectively together with a small group of people to create LPI.
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We designed a certification program that from the very beginning was designed to be distribution neutral training method neutral in the way that if you knew your if you knew your stuff, you could pass the test and you didn't have to take anything, you know, any official materials or anything like that.
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If someone must have their own system, talk themselves and came in, all we cared about was that they knew what they were doing.
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And we came together at a meeting. We made a pitch to a company called Caldera, which was one of the very first commercial Linux distributions back in the late 90s.
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And they came into sponsor us. They introduced us to a number of other groups. At that point, we ended up getting sponsorship from companies like Susa and IBM and others.
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And at that point, we had a certain amount of seed money that allowed us to go ahead and start paying for the right people, paying for the right quality control and so on.
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And so that was the start. And, you know, hopefully we've made some good decisions. And, you know, here we are now. And, you know, in the 20 years that has passed LPI has grown to be the largest open source certification worldwide.
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There are people that have LPI certificates in more than 185 countries. And I'm very proud of what the organization has achieved.
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So that's essentially the quick history of it. I mean, if there's more details that you'd like, please, what would you like to know?
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Yeah, that sounds great. And it's going to help us.
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How do you compare with your distribution specific? I mean, obviously red hat has their certifications and things. How do you people come into you versus going for something specific?
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Well, we're trying to focus on on what is common about Linux distributions.
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The only thing that we came out at the very beginning that was going to be significantly different was things like package management.
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So at the beginning, at the beginning of LPI, we actually had separate tests if you were in the RPM red hat world or if you were in the W and D package world.
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And so once upon a time, we actually had two separate exams and you could choose to take either.
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We ended up merging them together. And so the current LPI program tests for both of them.
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But we wanted to concentrate on what was common between Linux distributions.
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And so we don't teach things about graphic interfaces because that's something you could you could be tested on one thing and then walk into an employer and they're using something totally different.
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We wanted to have a program such that if somebody was skilled in the things that we were testing that they could walk into any Linux shop and start being able to work right away because they know the things that were common to every distribution.
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And, you know, obviously there's a number of components that are added to some distributions that make them very distribution specific.
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And, you know, they may be good shortcuts and they may be good tools in that respect.
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But we came philosophically to the conclusion that it was important to be able to prepare somebody to be able to walk into anything from a Raspberry Pi to a supercomputer and know the common components and be able to work at them right away.
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So this isn't just a matter of being distribution neutral. It's a matter of even large to small being able to be able to do basic work on on on a Linux system.
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Now, we have evolved to a program that has three levels so that by the time somebody gets to our third level, they get to specialize in things like in high level security or in high level.
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You know, connectivity and with other systems.
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But again, these are things that somebody will find on on any enterprise level system, regardless of where they go.
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So if they walk into a place and it's a Suza shop, they will not be surprised.
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If they walk into a place and it's an Oracle Linux shop, they won't be surprised.
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And so that's the intention is that, you know, if if if if you only learn how to use a hammer, then every problem is a nail.
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So we try and and have something so that people are prepared for the widest realm of Linux systems.
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But then again, we don't just do Linux. We're not even we're not even OS dependent because we also have a BSD program as well.
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Okay, brilliant. No, that makes perfect sense. Right. If you're learning basics of Linux for for all these things that then it makes it applicable in many places.
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And how do you how do you market or do you do marketing? I guess a lot of people just come to you and nobody.
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Well, you know Bjorn in based in Germany, who is our head of marketing.
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I mean, we have done an awful lot of work out of social media. We tend to we tend to depend on our community and our partners to help promote us.
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We do a lot of work on social media. We also produce a lot of webinars.
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You know, we tend to to shy away from conventional media advertising and things like that.
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We like to think we have a good enough product in that the word of mouth is actually helped sell us that when we have employers that are saying we would like you to to have an LPI certification that will make it easier for you to get a job.
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Or we have certain countries that have actually started to say, you know, you'll be able to command a higher salary by having an open source certification.
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And in some countries LPI is the easiest one to get. So, you know, those are the kind of things that help promote what we're doing.
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We're starting to make some subtle changes as we go along to become more than just a testing and certification body, but I can get into that later.
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The best promotion from us is people who come out of our program and get a good job and they tell other people we've had very good community support from the very beginning.
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Yeah, again, it makes sense. Right. And do you get to sort of lose kind of demands or questions from the actual employers that or feedback and saying, you know, we've had these LPI guys and it's been great and they know what they're doing.
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Compared to, you know, I mean, is that something that you do with as well?
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It's embedded into things from the very beginning.
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So when we decide that we're going to do a certification program or that we're going to update a certification program.
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We have a very specific quality process in creating that that involves going to the end users, going to the people that are actually going to be in these jobs and saying, what if you want to be a junior level or intermediate level or what have you?
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A Linux system administrator, what do you think of the tools you're going to need to do the job? And so we go through a substantial survey process where we analyze the job, you know, we targeted a specific job or position.
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We determine what kind of skills somebody's going to need to fulfill that job. And then we create the certification objectives against that.
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And then we create the test and we also talk to course developers and book publishers and saying these are the objectives that we are going to require students to know if they want to pass this level or this exam.
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And then they support us with courses and books and we come out with the program that way.
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So it's massively important for us to be responsive to the people that are doing the hiring into the people that are seeking these jobs.
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So we don't do an exam for a certification program without going through this extensive survey and development process.
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This is very interesting. Just obfaculty being a person that took all of the three levels of the certification process way back.
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I was just wondering, you do require a recertification. I think every two or three years, maybe there's something like this.
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There are other approaches where a buddy requires continuous professional education like, for example, I see two with regards to CIS SP and the rest of the aggregate accreditation that they offer.
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Just wondering, have you ever thought about switching from a recertification to CPEs?
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Actually, we haven't just thought about it. We have actually done it.
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So let me give you a little detail on that. When we first came out, we saw that a lot of the commercial certifications like Microsoft and Cisco, you know, they did exam expiry, you know, after certain number of years.
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So if you didn't recertify your exam expired and it says if you never got tested on anything, we rebelled against that approach.
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And we realized that if somebody was going to use a command like FSCK or LS or whatever, those things did not expire after five years.
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And so somebody's skills outlasted that. Now we originally, and again, going back 20 years, our original policy was that the exams did not ever expire or certification did not ever expire.
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But then when we got involved with professional certification bodies, they said that was unacceptable.
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That it was important for people to keep their skills or at least their professional development evolving that they couldn't just stay, you know, static at, you know, something they did 20 years ago.
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We took the approach that, you know, just like a university degree doesn't expire neither source does a certification, but we also found that when we got involved with other credentialing bodies and we wanted to see what other people were doing.
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There was a lot of objection to us having a policy of not doing any kind of requirements to people to keep their certifications fresh.
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So the approach we took at the beginning is that we do, we still do not expire certifications.
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Somebody who took the very first LPI test will still have it in our database. If they haven't taken, if they haven't taken anything new in a number of years, we would mark, we would mark a certification as either active or inactive.
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In other words, inactive means they haven't done anything new in a number of years, but somebody still has on the record that if they took an LPI exam 15 years ago, that's still in our database.
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And we will still tell that to people will make a note that it hasn't been updated, but that skill that was tested then never goes away.
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Now going back to your question about the professional professional development, we explicitly made a change to LPI, a massive change that happened on our 20th anniversary last year, was to change the organization into a membership body.
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And so until then we've been operating as a foundation, but as of last year, we started accepting members.
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And the purpose of the members was for multiple reasons, and one of them is for exactly what you're talking about.
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So much like a conventional professional society, if somebody wants to keep their certification active, they don't just need to retake exams every so many years.
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If they engage in professional development, and that takes many, many forms, they keep their certification status active.
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You know, we have a concept of PDUs, professional development units.
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So attending training will qualify for PDUs.
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A service in the open source community will qualify for PDUs.
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We have a whole catalog of various activities that would count towards somebody maintaining their certification status without having to retake exams.
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Because again, there's an awful lot about Linux that has not changed in 20 years, some has, some hasn't.
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We're on our 5th revision of our exams right now.
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And so, you know, we recognize that there are some differences that come, you know, a whole system D thing and all that.
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So, you know, we recognize there's changes, and we're frequently updating the exams.
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But if somebody wants to keep their status active, we encourage them to become a member of LPI and engage in professional development activities such, you know, that will support their ongoing personal development.
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And that doesn't just require taking new exams.
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We're not in this for money grab just to keep selling the same exam to people over and over.
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So, we're committed as an organization to the professional development of the open source community.
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And so, we've engaged in this.
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We've also along the lines of enhanced professional and personal development.
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So, we also came up with a code of conduct.
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And so, that code of conduct addresses how do you engage with people in an open source community?
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How do you engage with customers and others in a professional environment?
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And how do you engage in conflicts of interest?
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We have a code of conduct that addresses all of these things.
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Actually, uniquely, we went out and looked for other implementations and didn't find anything that was quite like that.
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But it's something that LPI is engaged in in a sense that, okay, somebody has achieved their technical expertise.
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But being an open source professional means more than just knowing, you know, your way around an open source system.
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You also have to deal with others, with clients, with colleagues, with other people in open source mailing lists.
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And so, professional conduct is in these cases sometimes as important as the technical skills.
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And so, we've engaged in this membership.
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The membership then can be maintained somebody's certification status through professional development and not just through exam taking.
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I hope that answers your question.
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So, we've given it an awful lot of thought.
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It's been years in development.
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And that actually is out now.
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We have members, we have people that are maintaining their certification, not just by retaking exams, but by engaging in professional development activities.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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Are you, I mean, it's just a thought really.
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Are you engaging much with the actual open source projects as well as part of this building, the certifications?
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And something you do in isolation.
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We have people in our communities that are engaged in an awful lot of the projects themselves.
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You know, do we don't get deeply involved in the in the software development projects themselves?
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Because we are not an organization of software developers.
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It's sort of not where we came from.
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We started LPI.
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I can code, but my work is awful that way.
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So I never went in that direction.
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You know, my strength has been in communications and education.
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And, you know, opens the open source community needs people with all sorts of backgrounds, not just coders, but also documentaries and marketers and so on.
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And so there's lots of place for people to answer your question.
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You know, we have informal relationships with a lot of projects, but we don't, you know, we don't go formally and saying, you know, we want them to endorse us or we endorse them.
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Obviously, there's a lot of open source products that are covered by LPI exams.
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Do we have their endorsement?
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Not necessarily, but it's not usually it's not the task of a software project.
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To get involved in the education programs for that software project.
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Some might do it as a revenue source, but most do not.
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Yeah, no, that makes sense.
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I mean, it's just that.
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I mean, if you take various open source projects, some of them will have commercial company variants.
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I mean, a lot of them do these days.
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And those may offer their own certifications.
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I'm thinking about.
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And the world is the world is big enough for all of this.
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You know, we know that there's their systems like Cody Linux that have their own that have their own certification program because they're focusing on the security component.
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I don't consider them competition.
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This is the community is big enough for a number of different approaches.
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You know, we serve one purpose, but we're not necessarily everything to everybody.
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So we know there's other approaches out there.
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And we're also aware that some open source projects need sources of revenue and they may go this path.
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But generally speaking, the, you know, we cover a specific area.
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And that is for people who want to get a job and claim they know, you know, a certain level of their way around the Linux system.
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And that takes the place right from the very beginning where we have a program called Linux Essentials, which is not really a certification course.
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It's really just somebody knows the fundamentals of Linux, which is not usually used for assessment so much as somebody's getting into IoT or somebody's getting into 3D printing or somebody's getting into VR or some other thing that requires they know a little bit about Linux, but it's not their main focus.
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And so we try and accommodate that as well as, you know, the intermediate to senior system.
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But, you know, it's it's a big world out there and we're not ever going to cover everything.
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So there's lots of room for a good community.
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We don't see any of the others as competition.
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And I hope we don't see us as competition.
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I mean, this is this is a very interesting aspect of because the Linux Essentials thing in contrast to the original certifications is quite new.
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I mean, we're looking at what 5 to 6 is maximum, right?
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I'm just wondering I fully see the requirement for this.
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I'm just wondering if that's something that the industry came to you for or whether that was kind of driven by we're going to take a look at the market.
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And that's exactly everything that's missing or what the kind of meeting halfway, if you know what I mean.
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In that case, I think it was as much a matter of community demand as opposed to industry because sometimes the industry doesn't necessarily know what it wants in this field.
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In the world of Linux, this admins, you know, things are pretty straightforward, but in the area where people need to know a little bit of Linux on their way to a career in something else.
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You know, somebody's going into embedded or they're going into into into some kind of AI or other field that requires some Linux.
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The need of having this very entry level thing was not quite so apparent.
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So we actually depended on our community to come to us and say that they wanted something like this.
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And in fact, one of our newest one of our newest projects that we're working on is for a level even below Linux essentials.
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So we have in development a program that is going to assume absolutely zero knowledge about IT on behalf of the learner and help people make a decision for themselves whether or not a career in IT is right for them.
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And so this isn't even Linux or open source specific. This is something that is is is meant to engage the general population and help people make an informed decision on whether or not they want to take or change to a career in in IT.
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And in some cases, we even want to be able to deliver this through public libraries for free.
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So, you know, we're going in both directions in some ways we're creating programs that are more advanced.
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And in some cases, we want to create programs that are going to help people at the, you know, who come in with absolutely no pre knowledge of things.
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This is what our community has told us is in demand. And so yes, obviously we're listening to industry.
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We're listening to our teaching partners and we're listening to the community at large and all of those play a factor in what we do.
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Yeah, you know, since it's from where from your perspective, if you what you explain this is the people that want to get started in as you say with recipe pies or with VR and did not have any linear skills.
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That's something that you can help them with as well.
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Exactly, because in many cases, if they're doing that kind of work, they're going to be generally doing it on a Linux host.
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So they need to know enough to know their way around an open source system, but they don't need to know enough to be able to admit.
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And that's what those courses are developed for.
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And how do you see that going forward? I mean, there's obviously a lot of uptake of open source software everywhere and more and more applications in devices and.
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And so on and different pieces of technology and AI and all sorts of, you know, open source is growing everywhere.
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So as an organization, are you trying to follow down and go with?
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Well, yes, but this is also recognition that when we're working with operating systems and that kind of component that this is a matter of, you know, software infrastructure as much as anything, you know, a Linux system for its own sake, you know, only goes so far.
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It's used to do other things. It's used to run websites. It's used to run IoT. It's used to do, you know, Raspberry Pi experiments. It's used to do all sorts of things.
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So in many cases, you know, Linux is a means to an end rather than an end to itself. And so these are the fields where we're finding some of the most interest going forward into other things.
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Another area where people have identified a need is in the non technical components. So the idea of doing a program on what are the legalities of open source that somebody has an idea of, you know, what are the differences of between licenses, what constitutes open source and what doesn't.
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At a point of view from managerial staff rather than technical staff, we're finding that there's a very big gap in understanding that way that what people think is open source might not be what it really is.
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So, you know, we run into that. And so one of the things that were under consideration is a program that would help educate and certify people on their knowledge of the business and legalities of open source.
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It has nothing to do with the technical component, but we're finding is still in demand.
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Yeah, I mean, that was the different kinds of licensing that you come across is something that is definitely a bit of a minefield for organizations to understand.
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So that's I guess that's what you're referring to when you mention the legal implications and things like that.
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Yes. And well, even things like, you know, are you allowed to profit from open source software?
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You know, I mean, you and I will know that the answer to that is definitely yes.
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But, you know, to the general public out there, they may not, you know, when they think of a GPL, you know, system, they may think of something that, you know, prohibits, you know,
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prohibits certain activities and they may think of prohibits profit making activity when, in fact, it doesn't, that's the kind of subtlety that we want to try and address and make sure that IT managers and policy makers understand these distinctions.
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You know, you know, even in the case where somebody wants to say, well, I want to make open source software, but the military can't use it.
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And the problem, well, I mean, that actually is something that we're starting to see is that people are wanting to say, I want a right to dictate how my, how my project is used.
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And it's a very legitimate desire, but it's not open source.
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It goes against, you know, freedom zero of the, of the, of the FSF and also the other, you know, the open source definitions is that you're not allowed to restrict how code is used.
|
|
You can, you can, you can, you can dictate, you know, whether or not you want to require sharing of it and so on.
|
|
But things like how software is being used right now, you have a number of proposals for licenses out there that go into this, that give the author discretion.
|
|
You know, the sort of French doisoteur kind of thing when you have the author gets to say how their work is used.
|
|
And while that's, you know, I totally understand the reasons why somebody would want to say, I don't want my open source code being used by, by war equipment.
|
|
At the same time, that can't be open source according to current definitions.
|
|
Yeah, that's one I hadn't actually come across myself before, but I mean, the most common complaint or restriction that open source, particularly the companies that trying to make a business model out of it is obviously with the cloud vendors right where
|
|
that that's what they want to try and restrict the usage there because of that conflict with their business model and it doesn't necessarily contribute to the project themselves because those we've seen the examples obviously where there isn't much being returned to the project and things like that.
|
|
So it's, yeah, that's, that's, I mean, apart from it, as you say, the technical piece that you obviously enabling in a general level, which, yeah, makes it widely applicable.
|
|
There is a lot more around it in there's around open source than just that, right?
|
|
Do you, I mean, how do you see the, we see, I mean, we're seeing a number of companies that are starting to offer open source services as a pure business model in a general way, right?
|
|
So, you know, like, you know, a Postgres expert, you need a Linux, this admin, we can, you know, we can source those as a company, we do that as a business model, right?
|
|
Do you work much with those kind of companies, or do you see that that increasing from what you are seeing in the LPL?
|
|
To me, this is just a natural outgrowth of what's been happening already as the, as the community matures, as people are constantly trying to see, you know, what business models exist where, you know, how can you make a profit?
|
|
You know, can it be after service, can it be in training documentation, or can it be in any of these other forms?
|
|
These, to me, are just sort of natural outgrowth of how things are going as, as the community is maturing and becoming part of the IT mainstream, is that, you know, there might be realization that, you know, the code could be obtained for free.
|
|
But the use, the, you know, the time of the people that are involved in training or configuring, or otherwise customizing software, that's not necessarily free.
|
|
And so, you know, it's still open source is still a benefit to the organizations that use it, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be able to get away with, totally without cost being able to deploy.
|
|
And so, there's lots of opportunities for companies that are doing that, and a number of these companies are saying, especially in a number of new countries where open source is just, and it's still in its infancy, you know, the certification of people helps, because they're looking for work, they're looking to try and convince their clients that they know what they're doing.
|
|
And having the professional certification is one step towards helping them out that way.
|
|
Yeah, now on tonight, for me, it was more the, you know, the uptake or the adoption of open source that we see around Europe and then in the US is large, right?
|
|
Well, Europe has always been ahead of the game, you know, infancy, infamously, there was, you know, the city of Munich deciding to change to open source and then change back and then change back again.
|
|
But I mean, you have a lot of countries in Europe that have been, you know, leaders to the world in terms of implementation and seeing the value of openness and sharing in the development at least of infrastructure.
|
|
So, yeah, that's the, you know, there's, there's still an awful lot of opportunity for growth.
|
|
There's still a lot of places in the world where people have been scared to use something besides the usual incumbent vendors.
|
|
And so we're still seeing that there's a lot of places in the world where some of this advocacy that, you know, you take for granted in Germany, I take for granted in Canada,
|
|
but there's still a lot of places in the world where this advocacy still needs to be done where there's still momentum that needs to be built up and there's still resistance.
|
|
So that battle, that advocacy battle is still far from over in some parts of the world.
|
|
Of course, of course, and now that's just a completely slightly different, different tangent is the people that you get in general at doing the LPI certifications are the younger generation, the people that are starting out in IT or is the mixture.
|
|
But I mean, the reason I'm asking is that typically if you've been in IT for a long time, you'll have some kind of specialism, whether it's, I don't know, Cisco or Oracle or whatever it is, right?
|
|
Right.
|
|
And, yeah, there's people trying to, they've been, their job is based on that.
|
|
And so the typical argument is, you know, we don't want anything to do with open source software because we build our careers on XYZ, right?
|
|
So what you're seeing in terms of people that are, do you see more and more of the, that older generation of IT people joining LPI as well?
|
|
Or is it mainly still the younger generation?
|
|
Well, my answer a year or two ago might have been very different about this.
|
|
Because of circumstances such as COVID and because of circumstances such as massively increased automation of work, we're finding that a lot of people that have been made redundant in other fields, maybe looking to IT as as somewhat of a more future proof career path.
|
|
So there may be people, you know, we still have lots of young people that are going straight through academia into IT and into open source.
|
|
We're also finding that there's a lot of people that are trying to reinvent their careers and trying to look for something that, you know, they may have been made redundant, they may have, you know, they may have been automated out of a job.
|
|
And they're looking for something that won't give them the same mistake in the future.
|
|
And to be very crude about it, you know, you want to be the one building the robots rather than the one being replaced by the robots.
|
|
And so we're finding we have not done a lot of demographic research.
|
|
It's something that we are going to be engaging more of, but we are finding at least anecdotally from our partners and elsewhere that a lot of the people that are coming in is a broader age range than you might think.
|
|
And some of that is simply because people are also looking for a changing careers as well as their first career and coming into IT and open source as a change of careers is starting to look attractive.
|
|
It's one of the reasons why we want to do that that introductory program that assumes no knowledge.
|
|
And somebody is looking for a new career or career change or someone that we want to help people make an informed decision on whether or not this is a good path.
|
|
I think that's a brilliant idea because as you say, if you're a person who is not familiar with that whole world and trying to make a change then as an organization, you're probably better placed to give them that information, but also there's so much information out there.
|
|
It's like where would someone like that start right?
|
|
So if an organization like yourself could guide them on all that path quite nicely.
|
|
So if you think about it being able to deliver these courses in places like public libraries, you can't get more publicly facing than that.
|
|
The idea to make this kind of program as accessible as possible because we're a nonprofit because we're trying to serve the community.
|
|
We're trying to come up with programs that libraries and other organizations would be able to deliver free of charge.
|
|
There's even a novel concept of called learning circles, which is effectively teaching without teachers, which is a concept that we have been partnering with an organization in the US called peer to peer university that would enable a library or other community center or something like that to be able to deliver this kind of initial IT course.
|
|
Without even having anyone on staff that would have the expertise to teach and yet they could still run a course like this and it would succeed.
|
|
We're running pilots in both Nairobi and Toronto with local library systems to do this kind of thing and they're showing a lot of success.
|
|
Again, that makes sense. It's something as a working person or even someone who's trying to change the career, doing learning, chair learning is obviously far more effective than doing it entirely on your own.
|
|
We're enabling that as well with certain programs that certainly will help.
|
|
I have to apologize for Christoph because his connection to BUBB somehow dies. He's not been here for the last 20 minutes.
|
|
There's a side so that's why he hasn't been able to ask any questions.
|
|
But the one thing that I think we very much like to know is also what is how do you see the future of LPI coming up in the short and the long term.
|
|
You've alluded to it to some degree but I mean for yourself as well. You've been with the organization quite a long time and part of the California co-founders.
|
|
How do you see that for yourself going forwards as well?
|
|
Well, I've been very gratified to have played a part in this transition of LPI from being merely an organization that delivers certifications to one that is actively involved in the advocacy of, shall we say, for the open source individual.
|
|
There's many groups out there that are able to advocate on behalf of and support commercial organizations that are working with open source.
|
|
You have the Linux Foundation that's doing phenomenal work in working with corporations and other large organizations in bringing open source into the mainstream.
|
|
We found that there is a bit of a gap there in that who's advocating for the role of the individual in open source.
|
|
Open source was created by individual initiatives.
|
|
You have people that are well known in the community that took it upon themselves to start projects and build a community around them.
|
|
So we find that there's still a need in fact a growing need to be able to support and advocate on behalf of the people working with open source as opposed to just the projects themselves.
|
|
So we're trying to develop LPI as a body that advocates on behalf of and supports the development of the people working with open source, not necessarily the corporations, not necessarily other entities like that.
|
|
They're already well served within this community, but we're finding that there's not a lot of places where somebody can be a member of an organization that is going to advocate on their behalf and enhance their own professional careers and their own professional development.
|
|
So in my own view, I would love to see LPI do for open source professionals what a bar association would do for lawyers or what an engineering society does for engineers.
|
|
The first step along that path is going to a membership model where it's the professionals themselves that dictate the direction of the profession.
|
|
And so we're having our first AGM this year where the members of LPI are voting on the board of directors after 20 years of operating as a foundation.
|
|
We're having our first member elections in 2021. I'm very happy to see how this is working out. I'm very pleased to play the role in this transition.
|
|
I've been helping reap the bylaws and working together with other staff and building up the membership and working towards an election process where we literally have the professionals in our community helping to vote for the board of LPI.
|
|
In that sense, help determine the direction of the professional group. So much as medical association, the doctors vote in the association that manages professional development and ethics and so on.
|
|
We're hoping to do that same kind of thing in the world of open source. And that means being far more than just a body that issues certifications.
|
|
Yeah, that sounds brilliant. Let's put me in the open source.
|
|
It's just a sort of side of what when is your AGM?
|
|
The AGM is going to happen. I believe it's in May. I don't know. I don't recall the exact date.
|
|
We have great details on the website right now because as I speak to you right now in in mid-January, we're actively looking for people who want to run for the board.
|
|
Right, right. And they do know amongst you members, I guess.
|
|
Well, of course, we're looking for members, but one of the prerequisites of membership is being LPI certified for the intention is that is that the professional community helps steer the profession and so prerequisite of being a member of LPI is is having taken it.
|
|
So if you as you say you took all three levels some time ago, you should have a look because there is a way that even if you haven't done an exam in an awful long time, there's still a path to membership without having to retake exams.
|
|
Okay.
|
|
All right. So I think that's been great. It's certainly, I think the work that you're doing at LPI and you know, as you say is far more than certification and going into future and making a member controlled, well not controlled, but when the members decide the direction that's that's again,
|
|
you know, those are all in in the spirit of open source as well to be frank and so it really appreciate your time tonight. Likewise from who unfortunately has technical issues.
|
|
So thank you very much and hopefully that's given us a good view of LPI unless I've missed something that you may want to cover.
|
|
I think I've said, you know, I think I hope I've answered most of your questions.
|
|
It was a great insight into where you've come from and how you're growing, but also that you're far more than the certification organization right, which is great to hear.
|
|
And you know, if you'd like me back in terms of any kind of other discussion about sort of, you know, the people of open source as opposed to the code or is put, you know, the companies or whatever, you know, feel free to call anytime.
|
|
Yeah, I mean, so I think we touched on this earlier, it's you're not so much looking for involvement of the community, the projects as such yourself at LPI, but it's more the members determine the or build the future of it and determine what offerings you have right or that.
|
|
Yeah, also there's, I mean, there's a big diversity of people involved with open source.
|
|
If somebody enthusiastic and they're a very good coder, there's lots of places for them to go right now where they can make a contribution to the community moving forward.
|
|
If somebody is, you know, an educator, they can do that. If they're a marketer, there's or a documentary, there's lots of opportunities there.
|
|
We want to give a place for the people that are working with open source that are not necessarily coders, but are trying to make this work for their companies for themselves for their own careers.
|
|
And we think we're feeling an important gap here and so far I think we've done a good job of it.
|
|
No, no, I agree with you. It's something that, yeah, it's rather than just knowing how to be in and out sort of Linux work.
|
|
There's a whole lot more to it these days and again, if you are an organization picking out, that's great too.
|
|
As a focal point for people that need to learn those skills or find that information as well, right?
|
|
So it's, yeah, I think that's great to combine that with the pure, it's not lost to pure technical knowledge, which as you say, you could get from various other locations or even, you know, bit hats and then certification program stuff.
|
|
Well, it's not just that there's a lot of obviously there's a lot of new online training opportunities that didn't exist 20 years ago.
|
|
Yes, you know, you to me and a lot of other online systems as well.
|
|
So we're aware of that. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, having a diversity of ways that people learn about open source, they learn how to do the, learn how to do the stuff.
|
|
To me, that's good that, you know, having different people learn different ways. Some people are comfortable with learning online.
|
|
Some people need a book and some people need to just go into the room with the Raspberry Pi and teach themselves.
|
|
We're happy with all those approaches. As long as, you know, when they come out, they know what they're doing.
|
|
Yeah, well, and this is where you come in. That's brilliant. And yeah, hopefully we'll catch up with you again in a bit's time and see how things plan out.
|
|
That's kind of part of what we do is building up, you know, various conversations with people in various parts of the open source community.
|
|
Whether it's it's it's people that look out to projects or people like yourself that looks after an organization and then we'll, you know, review these, these kind of scenarios.
|
|
How, how does this moved over time and where are you, you know, in a year or two years time?
|
|
We'll do another recording and we'll look back and say, hey, this is where you ended up, right? That's one of the nice things about it.
|
|
Yeah, great. Thanks for having me.
|
|
No, brilliant. We have to meet you and thanks again for your time.
|
|
Martin, that was a very interesting interview never mind the technical challenges that we apparently experienced at least I did anyway.
|
|
So what to make of it all?
|
|
Yeah, no, I agree. Great guy.
|
|
Interesting project about project.
|
|
Interesting what they've done with it.
|
|
Surprisingly few questions from yourself, by the way, but that's probably your first.
|
|
Sorry, all right, going back to the episode.
|
|
Martin, for a change, you, you can do all the talking too.
|
|
I like that.
|
|
It doesn't have to be me all the time.
|
|
No, it's an interesting fact.
|
|
Never mind, never mind the membership thing there.
|
|
That apparently they're rolled on it.
|
|
I wasn't aware of this actually when I was doing the whole Chebang, you look at about almost 10 years back when I started.
|
|
There wasn't such a thing.
|
|
And one thing we you didn't discuss was actually the fact that community members are are getting involved or can get involved.
|
|
Let's split this way.
|
|
For example, with the review of upcoming courses or modifications to the content.
|
|
So as a matter of fact, yes, you can get involved.
|
|
If people, if people, yes, if people listening, exactly.
|
|
Yes, exactly.
|
|
If you want to get involved, lpi.org, you find this of course was part of the show notes.
|
|
Lpi.org is the is the place to visit.
|
|
Especially if you are or if you do want to participate on the cutting edge of Linux certification, because that's the place to be essentially.
|
|
Okay, yes, and you promised to have him back, right?
|
|
That's what I mean.
|
|
I was spotted.
|
|
Yeah, I think that's something that we've done with other guests as well, right?
|
|
It's quite nice to see where, where these, how these projects evolve up didn't indicate nor project.
|
|
Because it's their first agent, but they're trying to set direction better members and all that stuff.
|
|
So we could see how it comes out.
|
|
Excellent.
|
|
And that leaves us actually with the feedback and then the box and we all, and then we're almost done, right?
|
|
Yes.
|
|
And we do have feedback.
|
|
I do.
|
|
Luna Jernberg has written quite a few mails.
|
|
Oh, busy man.
|
|
Yes.
|
|
Sorry.
|
|
And he says, let me start with the first mile.
|
|
Hello, we're listening to the in to the Linux in Los.
|
|
That's us.
|
|
New is episode in the morning.
|
|
Oh, this morning, happy new year.
|
|
Luna, thank you very much.
|
|
And he's also looking forward to season number two.
|
|
Interesting, because we haven't quite a cent yet on the numbering scheme, right?
|
|
Indeed, indeed.
|
|
Season one is a very long one.
|
|
It may never end this.
|
|
If you have thoughts on this, the email address is feedback at Linux in Los.u.
|
|
You want to read the second man or should I do this?
|
|
No, you've got to implement it.
|
|
Okay, Luna Jernberg writes again.
|
|
He was actually on the first of January.
|
|
Apparently he doesn't take time off.
|
|
Yes, I did listen to them both yesterday.
|
|
And of course, I asked him basically if what he makes of it.
|
|
And yeah, the feedback goes on basically describing what he's looking for.
|
|
And he also says that he does do podcasts.
|
|
But he has been on Linux.
|
|
Unplugged us some episodes.
|
|
Okay, show notes in the link.
|
|
Link and show notes.
|
|
If I can find this, he has apparently.
|
|
Apparently he has.
|
|
But he has, but he has been on Linux.
|
|
Unplugged.
|
|
For some episodes apparently according to his Maya.
|
|
Okay, well, show notes in the link.
|
|
Link and show notes.
|
|
If I can find this, he has.
|
|
Apparently he has.
|
|
If I can find this, he has.
|
|
Apparently he has.
|
|
At Luna to send them to us.
|
|
He's somewhat involved actually in the Debian project.
|
|
They're from a completely missing.
|
|
I couldn't.
|
|
Okay.
|
|
And that leaves us across with the.
|
|
With the boxes and antipoxys.
|
|
Okay.
|
|
I have quite a few boxes.
|
|
But.
|
|
All right.
|
|
You had to divide a few antipoxys.
|
|
Well, just one actually.
|
|
Only one.
|
|
I went to.
|
|
Okay, let's start with the technical one.
|
|
As we all know, Java is broken language.
|
|
And yes, David, Mara, if you're listening of.
|
|
Rumpy old coders, same.
|
|
Java is still broken.
|
|
You'll find the link of the show notes.
|
|
This is something I came across when I was trying to install.
|
|
Jitsi.
|
|
If the new conference system that we intend to use from now on.
|
|
Instead of BBB for a number of reasons, which I won't go into now.
|
|
But the.
|
|
Long and short of it is actually that for a number of reasons.
|
|
Jitsi uses a recording component called jibri.
|
|
And for some reason.
|
|
And the details are actually in the show notes.
|
|
Jibri doesn't run on JDK version 11.
|
|
But rather on JDK version eight.
|
|
Given the fact that this Jitsi instance is running on.
|
|
For instance.
|
|
Most of you who are familiar with Debian, of course, know that JDK eight.
|
|
Or open JDK eight version.
|
|
Sorry, open JDK version eight is not supported on buster.
|
|
Not only open JDK version 11.
|
|
Meaning that essentially you end up with running to J versions of JDK on that buster.
|
|
It's because of the technical deficiency of the requirement.
|
|
From Jitsi and of course the second anti-aprox would be Jitsi itself to some extent.
|
|
Developers, if you're listening, Jitsi is great.
|
|
I'll get me wrong, but setting it up essentially is a bit.
|
|
We are allowed to say this because we are explicit.
|
|
Members are correct.
|
|
Or you have experienced.
|
|
I mean, I reckon if you if you want to run it from a container,
|
|
that's fair, that's that's straightforward.
|
|
Or if you just basically want to leave the configuration as it is.
|
|
When you install it from the, say, operating system packages.
|
|
As part of your as part of your package repositories.
|
|
But as soon as you deviate from the standard configuration.
|
|
For example, this is Jitsi instance is running behind a reverse proxy.
|
|
In the shape of Apache running on a different part number.
|
|
And this is where the fun starts.
|
|
Documentation could be slightly better.
|
|
Apparently the documentation is somewhat behind the versions.
|
|
That's not understanding.
|
|
So needless to say, people, if you have spare cycles,
|
|
if you want to, if you want to help a great project,
|
|
that's the Jitsi is your, is your go to resource for spending these cycles?
|
|
Because the project I think needs some support, love and care.
|
|
So why did you not install it on a container?
|
|
For a number of reasons, that wasn't possible on this particular instance.
|
|
In that case, I'm not one of the benefits.
|
|
Well, in that case, that would probably have meant even more part mapping and other rest of it.
|
|
So I didn't bother.
|
|
Any anti-process on your side?
|
|
Yeah, the anti-process on my side is, people move in production service two hours before recording.
|
|
Not mentioning any names here.
|
|
I mean, if you're referring to my migration, sorry, that was actually done a day before.
|
|
Okay.
|
|
There's something.
|
|
TTL.
|
|
You may want to consider that.
|
|
Okay, uninitiated.
|
|
The spot is just bitching and whining about some minor technical issue.
|
|
Okay, and onto the part.
|
|
Yes, and quite a few actually.
|
|
A movie called Tucker and Dale versus evil.
|
|
It describes the shenanigans of funny enough, Tucker and Dale versus the evil in terms of.
|
|
Yes, in terms of the shenanigans that they come across basically when I think it's it's yeah, it's some sort of evil.
|
|
And the next box that I have is the book of monsters.
|
|
Similar shenanigans.
|
|
Basically a group of teenagers come across of all coming across a heart of zombies.
|
|
So Martin calls it light entertainment.
|
|
I would call it rather documentary given these.
|
|
So it's not a much.
|
|
Yes, Martin, onto your boxes.
|
|
I foxes only have one on bread since.
|
|
Time is in short supply mode.
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
Well, it's funny.
|
|
It's funny thing time.
|
|
Yeah, you think it's got goes at a constant pace, but then sometimes it doesn't.
|
|
It's very odd.
|
|
Anyway, going back to the box.
|
|
So the box is a BBC series called the serpent, which is set in the 70s when there was no technology.
|
|
So you could write this one and you could change your password, just stick a different photo in and stuff like that.
|
|
So it's just a bit of.
|
|
Light entertainment.
|
|
The links I suppose are in the show now.
|
|
It's good.
|
|
Of course, I forgot the box.
|
|
Yes, if you have a chance, listen to something called the grumpy old quarters.
|
|
Episode number six.
|
|
Now, this is a boxer and type of.
|
|
No, it is actually a box.
|
|
So Thomas David, if you're listening, this is you.
|
|
This is free marketing.
|
|
This is free.
|
|
Sponsoring of your show.
|
|
The reason I'm even mentioning this because this show basically says it all.
|
|
It clocks in about two hours.
|
|
And yes, Martin and Thomas build the beans on various issues from last year, this year.
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Sorry, David.
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Yes.
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I meant David and Thomas.
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Yes.
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|
The grumpy old quarters.
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Yeah, the East and Germans.
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Yes, exactly them.
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|
Yes.
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|
And so.
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And they spill the beans on various topics, including, for example, Corona apps.
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|
And how not to do them.
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|
Now, guys, if you're listening, and I'm sure that at least one of you is listening, don't stop there.
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|
I mean, in the in the interest of affirmative action, equal rights to all the rest of it, do include.
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|
High neck as well as cars, but apps to right.
|
|
Just for the next episode, food for thought indeed.
|
|
Okay.
|
|
Didn't know they covered beers.
|
|
Well, they covered with the Corona app.
|
|
So yes, that's the start.
|
|
Fair enough.
|
|
Okay.
|
|
Something might be given a session on beers around the way.
|
|
Coaters or grumpy's rather if you're listening.
|
|
It's your feedback.
|
|
Yes, we are.
|
|
We can't wait for a.
|
|
We can't wait for an episode on beers.
|
|
So just go ahead.
|
|
Forget this.
|
|
Software stuff.
|
|
Sure.
|
|
And all the rest of it.
|
|
Just just go for beer.
|
|
That's okay.
|
|
Yeah.
|
|
And as usual, yes, as usual, any feedback from the grumpy's or from any other people.
|
|
Please, please send the mail to feedback at linuxinloss.eu.
|
|
We are, as usual, available on Hacker Public Radio.
|
|
This won't change.
|
|
Even sometimes it's a bit tricky to get the episodes out there because of scheduling issues,
|
|
but that's not, but that's not, but that's another point.
|
|
And with that, I think it's time to wrap this up.
|
|
See you next time.
|
|
This is the linuxinloss.
|
|
You come for the knowledge.
|
|
But stay for the madness.
|
|
Thank you for listening.
|
|
This episode is partly sponsored by Murphy and Finnegal and the respective laws.
|
|
Mr. Murphy and Mr. Finnegal are happy to have made life hell for techies and other people
|
|
for just too many years to count.
|
|
And this episode is not an exception.
|
|
Unfortunately, we fucked this up ourselves and managed only to school things up in a minor fashion.
|
|
We apologize for this fact and promised to do a better job next time.
|
|
Mr. Murphy.
|
|
Mr. Finnegal.
|
|
That's the first.
|
|
But fuck you.
|
|
And your blood is stupid laws.
|
|
This podcast is licensed under the latest version of the Creative Commons license.
|
|
Type attribution share like credits for the intro music go to bluesy roosters for the songs of the market.
|
|
To twin flames for their peace called the flow used for the second intros.
|
|
And finally to celestial ground for the songs we just use by the dark side.
|
|
You find these and other details licensed under cc hmando.
|
|
A website dedicated to liberate the music industry from choking copyright legislation and other crap concepts.
|
|
You've been listening to hecka public radio at hecka public radio dot org.
|
|
We are a community podcast network that releases shows every weekday Monday through Friday.
|
|
Today's show, like all our shows, was contributed by an HBR listener like yourself.
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|
If you ever thought of recording a podcast and click on our contribute link to find out how easy it really is.
|
|
Hecka public radio was founded by the digital dog pound and the infonomicon computer club.
|
|
And it's part of the binary revolution at binrev.com.
|
|
If you have comments on today's show, please email the host directly, leave a comment on the website or record a follow-up episode yourself.
|
|
Unless otherwise stated, today's show is released under creative comments,
|
|
attribution, share a life, 3.0 license.
|