hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr1153.txt

Episode: 1153
Title: HPR1153: 2012-2013 Hacker Public Radio New Year Show Part 3
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1153/hpr1153.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-17 20:19:33

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Yeah, sorry about that, folks. But, Anna, Anna, good, happy note. If you're looking
for Dav Mail, it's a really good way to connect to Microsoft Exchange.
And Happy New Year to people in New Delhi, Banglador, Bishkek, Almaty, and Omsk.
Oh, not Omsk yet, sorry, not Omsk yet. But, yeah.
And I hope you keep on butchering those pronunciations for the rest of the New Year.
I will, Malay. Malay is New Year now. Diego got to see ya. That's an easy one.
We've also got Pakistan and regions of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kerglan Islands, Tajikistan, Turk
Ministan, and the Maldives. Yeah, yeah, New Year. Happy New Year. You could have just
used a one-in-card for a stand there, Becky. Happy New Year. So I do like Stan.
So already most of the human population had the New Year. Yeah, I think you're right. Can
we quit now? Right. So does this mean, though, with the problem of exchange with Linux
adoption? Does that mean that Google Calendar, if that gets embraced, that just solves that
problem? If Google Calendar for like businesses gets embraced?
Okay, it's also with that quite nicely. They have a whole Google stack that you could
sync up with calendars and mail and whatnot.
The only problem with Google Calendar and Google offering that as a service for businesses
is how many businesses trust Google that much to put all of their proprietary intellectual
property bulk shut up on Google. Unfortunately too many. Way too many. Yeah, quite a lot.
There seems to be in management in a lot of companies, there is just no concept of privacy
or of personal information or of anything like that. And they do really incredibly stupid
things. Does that work for a sort of a tech savvy company? I subcontract for a telecom
and nobody trusts Google. Does Google have a version of their apps that are client side
hosted? You can buy a Google box, can't you? Is that is that client side hosting or is
that just for for caching searches and stuff? I thought they discontinued that too.
Sorry, the outside went. I think the apps version of that they did. I think you can still
do the search one. Then general portrays have his emails leaked through
Google? Yes, but it's a little bit more complex than that. He didn't actually have the emails
themselves leaked. They read his drafts. Because they gave someone a long guess, right? I mean,
yeah, yeah, it wasn't even it was it was that simple. Yeah, they just I think they're
just sniffest traffic or what? Did he actually just give someone the past one? I thought he
gave his girlfriend his password. That's what I read. Well, that's how they were exchanging
messages. They would write something, save it as a draft and then one or the other would
log into it. And that's how they would read messages to each other. So the FBI can get
a warrant to get an email account in the country. Pure genius. I know they don't even need
a warrant, apparently. Yeah. That's a cool emergency. Well, I'll move to the free state
of New Hampshire. Yeah. I think was EFF had the best take on that. And they said, basically
make sure you get a mail, you get an account with a mail system that actually accepts
a tour connection and does SSL. And then that way you'll have at least two layers of security
on top of your account access. Or just don't have an affair. Well, yeah, that's always
the best route. But then again, if you're really going to go there, you know, if you really
need security, do it right. PGP. One thing when they, uh, when they implement the password
protected encrypted activities, you'll be able to put all your, uh, affair documents
on your affair activity. I actually keep all my affairs in my drop box. Is that, is that
a problem or don't get me started on drop box? Did you guys, it's a drop box. I can put
the radio. Did you guys hear about the drop box for teams problem where you could delete
people's drop box accounts remotely? Lastly, that would be a problem. Yeah, it is. Yeah,
I work in a pretty secure environment. And that's one of the things that, uh, we really
have to go with, uh, extreme server and, uh, and outlookers or something that's under
our control. And I don't think there's anything under our control that's any better than
exchange and outlook at this point. Have you ever tried out cloud, no, server on cloud?
As anybody tried that. Oh, it's horrendously insecure, actually, unfortunately. It's,
it's sort of, it's not very stable right now, either from what, from what I've experienced.
I've, I've tried to get a couple of people on and, and it just doesn't seem to be working
that well. If you're running an own local network and you're not worried about anything
coming in from the outside, own cloud is wonderful. Yeah, that might, that might be so.
I was just going to say, um, that might be so if you're actually running it locally, but
if you're running it over the internet, which is probably the way that would, it would
be useful because otherwise it would just be like a, a share. Um, it's, we've got a lot
of problems like the protocol in terms of security. Well, I wouldn't do. I work for our
state government. And so we have some pretty strict requirements about keeping things
secure. So yes, all of a sudden, I went very quiet in the room or is it just me? No. Um,
so I've got a question to anyone, nobody in particular. I was just wondering what their
highlights of 2012, uh, tech highlights I'm talking. Next is seven. Yes. I second, Matt.
Raspberry Pi. Raspberry Pi. Yeah. That was the first time I'd like waited in line as it were
for any tech device and loved it. Where'd you wait in line to get one physically?
I said as it were. I said as I thought you, um, I didn't think you meant that in that sort of way.
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I was, I was one of those people who, you know, we, like a couple of
people in the IRC channel, uh, we just kind of sat around and waited for it to post online.
And then we all tried to order it that the moment it was released and the site was like their,
their servers were literally failing, you know, because there were so many people trying to order
it. It was pretty funny to see that happening over a $35 very sort of what you would think
as a niche market kind of product. It was kind of fun to be in on that just for kicks wouldn't do
it again, but it was fun. I actually bought mine. I bought mine in person, um, at the New York maker
fair. Oh, cool. Actually, they had, uh, what's it guys? Then you've been up then, I think his name
is he was actually speaking there also. Oh, very good. Very nice. Do you get to talk to him?
I'm not personally, but, uh, I went to his talk and heard him. Okay, here's what you do the next time,
is you bring a Sansa tape, you record it, and you send it to the entire public radio. I knew it.
I knew it. I think it's something that we haven't been stressing, you know, during this talk,
is that we do need shows when the 14 shows left and there are currently how many slots.
Well, I can always record a show on, uh, activities. Oh, yes, please, because yeah, that would be good.
I would be, I'm just putting in every five seconds to, to, uh, ribbing you.
But seriously, Ken, you're preaching to the choir. We're giving you 24 hours of content right now.
Yeah, but it's all going to be wasted up in a week, unfortunately.
Wait a minute, smaller episodes. Oh, I could spread it out for a month, but I'm sure everybody here
has now completely enthused ready to send in some, uh, some shows. Actually,
seeing as we are talking about HBR and there's so many people here, um, can we have a little chat
about scheduling rules? You know, the grand debates that we've had during the year, watch us,
what are people's thoughts about all that, the care might the only one who gets obsessed
really, but it seems seems to be working to me. I mean, I don't know, have you been getting
negative feedback about it? It seems like your, your systems work in pretty well. Yeah, there's been
definitely a better mix of things coming through. Well, so far so good. I was just wondering if, and
if we simplified it so that, um, uh, we have high priority, medium priority and low priority.
But say the regular, the regular shows get scheduled based on whenever the last host posted,
whenever the host posted their last show, what would you think, how would you think that would work out?
How's that? So say, for example, um, what happens quite a lot is, um, somebody will, um,
post a series together and just dump the monthly F2B server for release whenever it happens
to come out. Uh, so therefore we have a thing where a show host will get on once,
sorry, once we can any particular topic. So, okay, here's however, I used to submit a show,
I submitted five shows, somebody else submitted a show. What would happen is you will go out first
because you are a new host, for instance, I will go out with next because my show I did was six
months ago. However, the next time it comes around, even though I've submitted five shows and
the person after me will get moved up because, uh, I had just submitted the show and they have
been submitted the show, um, the last, their last show was three weeks ago. So it would be
simpler to schedule everything and that way new hosts would still get bumped to the top. Um,
hosts who have been away are only do a show once every so often. They would also be encouraged to
come in because their show will get moved to the top and then they're all regulars who are
kind of the backbone of HPR who aren't really that miffed about their shows getting bumped
one way or the other, um, you know, live with the fact that their shows get bumped one way or the
other. I guess the only exception I would make to that is if there is a show that is like
event specific where it's tied to a date or time. It's like something for say sell for for one of
the other conferences that's coming up and it needs to be released before the conference actually
happens. Yeah, just like this end, but that that will also stay so that that stuff you'd still have
scheduled slots. And I'm not apologetic about that because if somebody is going running a booth
for Hacker Public Radio at a conference somewhere and they nab interviews, there's all sorts of
reasons why we should reserve a block either one week, ideally the week after that, but no longer
than two weeks after it because for a start, I still have interviews from a camp 2011 that still
needs to go out in snow 2013. That's number one. Number two, somebody's taking the time and effort
to go there. But most importantly is they've interviewed somebody and they would like their show to
get out. And it's so you've got a project. And yeah, after the interview, the first question
you always get is, okay, when is this going to be aired? And then the answer is, well, I don't know
probably in six months time. And they're going, oh, okay. I thought you had an allowance for that.
I thought you'd be a question. Oh, okay. So that would be that would be maintained. Sorry,
that will be maintained. So we would keep that. But for the rest, you know, a lot of the scheduling
instead of the way we do it kind of now, which is on a first come first basis, first come first
certain basis, it would be based on whenever you posted your last show. So the two people who
would be mostly affected by that are actually on the call and they would be tattoo and a hookah.
Wait, I wasn't listening. What am I being affected by? You've been affected by this. If we did
they post the last show thing. So when say you submit a series on urban camping, for instance,
you submit five at once, although let's pretend you didn't do that.
You your first show will get aired straight away because you haven't posted in a while. But then
the other shows will get put down to Laura and the queue. And the next person who has, you know,
who has not posted in the longest time will get their show put in first. And then it's person.
So that what that means is it kind of will spread your shows a little bit out.
Yeah, I think that's that's not only fair. It's I think it's sort of what we want, right? I mean,
we want more variety, I think. Yeah, you want the distribution. Yeah, yeah, even distribution.
Yeah, exactly. So it sounds good. All in favor? Yep. Yep.
So I might try it for January and see how it goes. Yeah.
So is anybody here going to Northeast Canoal Links West?
Who is it? It's in March. I don't know. I think Rougi is in the Northwest of America.
No, Northeast. Northeast? Oh, I'm in Northeast. Yeah, John. That's there last year.
That that's soon. Oh my gosh. Yeah, we should have asked Jonathan when before he left.
It's going to be up in Cambridge, Mass. Yeah, I think Jonathan is the main organizer.
Yeah, I'll be there. I'll be going to that one. I think I'm giving a talk on Git.
Last year was pretty good. They had John Mad Dog over there. It was pretty interesting.
Anyone going to force them? No.
Unfortunately, I'm not going to talk. Yeah, I'm not going to talk. You talk.
Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah, I plan to go again to meet the media people again, some of them.
Because I size contributes to distribution properly at the end of well-community side,
or sort of thing on December 2011. And then I went this year and met some of the like more
proper contributors. So I plan to go again next year. And it was quite interesting.
And I went to Old Camp as well. And I went to, yeah.
Okay. Would you be bringing a recorder with you? Unfortunately, I won't be able to go.
I thought I have an operation now, 15th. And I thought I might be able to make it,
but now it's been pushed back. So I definitely won't be able to make it.
Oh, I think Jonathan just signed back on. How strangely apropos.
Jonathan, are you there? And can you tell us when the North East Linux Fest is?
Oh, yeah. Can you guys hear me?
Yeah, sort of. You're low. Yeah, you need to come up some.
Okay, hand me a second. Second, fix that.
In the meantime, Fostem is will is going to be held in Brussels on the 3rd, 2nd and 3rd of February,
2013. Fostem is a free event that often's open source communities are placed to me share ideas
and collaborate. It's renowned for being highly developed developer oriented.
It brings together 5,000 plus geeks from all over the world. This year,
the sponsors are Red Hat Cisco, Google, HP, LPI, Oracle, O'Reilly, and UB, University,
Libre Brucelle, I believe. I think you've had that from the site.
Oh, it sounds like anyway. Possibly? Possibly.
I really wanted to go this year, but then someone went and got himself a new job.
Did he know? Where is he working now? Oh, I'll let him tell you.
Is that better? Yeah.
It's just a small local firm, Ken, I'm just doing their web development and stuff, so.
Not me. Were you not able to make enough from the contributions to Crunchbank?
Well, it was going really well. And then,
because I was using Google AdSense on the website and in combination with the revenues
via AdSense and donations that people were giving to the project, it was just about breaking
even and it was okay. And then Google pulled my AdSense account and
pretty much cut the revenue in half and it was just not viable to continue working on the
project full-time, so I just went out and got a job, basically.
Sorry, the two things there, when you say you were breaking even, do you mean you were
earning a living, a comfortable living, or were you just paying the bill?
The basement wage.
Oh, okay. And then when you say Google took your AdSense, why did they do that?
Good question. I'll try contacting them, but they're pretty hard to get out of.
You're basically talking to a Python script, so I've just got stock answers back,
and when they say it's final, it's final, basically.
Yeah, so I'm going to do an invalid click activity, but I don't know.
Wow. That makes you wonder about starting up a business that requires...
Well, basically, they have all the powers of a bank and none of the responsibility.
Oh, yeah, I'm actually a bank turning around and saying, yes, we've got all your money,
but actually, we don't like the look of you, so you're not having it.
And I had like... well, it wasn't an awful lot of money, but I'd accrued,
you know, about months worth of income, and they just shut the account and said, you know,
that's it, no more, you're not getting paid anymore, and you know, that was the end of that, so.
It was good while it lasted.
Wow, so you can even put out the money that you had in the account,
they just lock it all and said, sorry.
Yeah, that was about six weeks worth of money, because they pay you six weeks in a race.
That's crazy. Wow.
Yeah, it was pretty bad. I mean, other time, I was quite annoyed about it, and you know,
pretty frustrated, as you can imagine, but, you know, looking back, well, I mean, definitely now,
I've sort of like redesigned the website and stuff, and there's, there isn't any advertising
on the website now, and it looks a hell of a lot cleaner, and, you know, it just looks nicer
without having any advertising on it. And, you know, I think, well, I do, I much prefer it that way.
And, you know, the only reason they had the advertising on there in the first place was,
you know, to support the project. So, you know, I've gone back to, you know, pretty much
supporting the project by myself, and, you know, I get some donations every now and again,
and thank you to everybody who's donated. It's a great help.
Has anybody ever used Bitcoin's?
I've had some people offering to give me Bitcoin's and stuff for it, but I've never really, never
looked into it any further than that. But yeah, I mean, I would say if you're thinking of setting up
a business and relying on, you know, earning a living through Google Ads, and, you know,
make sure you've got a backup. Also, as a word of warning, the PayPal will do the same thing. They
have also been referred to as having the power of a bank, but without any other responsibility.
So, they've been known to shut people's accounts as well.
Yeah, I've heard some real horror stories about PayPal, but I mean, the thing is it's,
it's just one of those things, you know, you just have to, you know, suck it up and get on with it.
So, that's, you know, pretty much what I've done. So, I mean, the job I'm doing at the moment,
I enjoy the job, the people there are brilliant, but the, it's not the, the technology stack
I'm working on, it's not, it's not what, you know, I want to work on, but, you know, it's the job,
well, I'm enjoying it. Okay, well, crunchbang.org, folks, have you implemented the subscription,
monthly subscription thing yet? Yeah, I've implemented it in the form of a button,
that you press once a month. It says the night. Oh, Jonathan, can you tell us about your monthly
subscription? Don't donate button. How can you explain it to Philip? How easy it is to set it up?
It's so easy, a blind guy can set it up. Do you know any?
Okay, Northeast canoe Linux Fest, Paddy's Day, Boston, flyover, Jonathan, fly me over.
Can't I would fly you over if you could fly me over and fuzz them? I want to go to that so bad.
Oh, oh, words, words, oh, that we could.
Yeah, this year, the Northeast canoe Linux Fest, it's pretty excited. We're having it hard
for this year in Cambridge, and it's going to be a two-day event this year instead of one day,
and got quite a, quite a full schedule so far. We got the famous Clot 2 giving a talk on Git.
We have someone from the tour project giving a talk. We have someone from one laptop, one laptop,
our child giving a talk. Wendy Seltzer is going to be giving a talk. John's, I'm pretty sure
John Sullivan from the FSF will be down. Matt Lee from the FSF, Formley from the FSF. He's going to be
giving a talk. This is going to be, Drew Levine is going to be there. She's going to be giving like a
three-hour class on setting up free masks for home use and whatnot. The door to door geek is going
to be there. I think he's going to be doing kind of like a Linux for the rest of us class for new
users. We have a virtualization track that's pretty full of all kinds of talks. Dan Walsh from
SE Linux is going to be giving a talk on SE Linux. Lots of stuff going on. Matthew Garrett was
going to be there. Yes, Matthew Garrett is going to be talking about a restricted boot. There's a
lot of talks that I just can't think of right now. Thanks for the reminder. Yeah, it seems like
a whole lot more speakers than last year. How long is the conference this year? It's the March 16th and
17th. I believe Saturday is going to go from, as we're going to kind of start everything at 9 in the
morning, but 10 in the morning is probably when everything will really start. We'll probably go
from 10 to 5 and then Sunday we're thinking maybe like 10 to like 2 or 3 or something, maybe not
like a full full day on Sunday, but long enough. We have five tracks that we can use.
Sure, you're from the open database camp. She's going to be coming down. We're giving her an
entire track for like database stuff and she's also going to be using two classrooms to do classes
in at Harvard because we're using the entire science building. So we're going to have 8 to 10
classrooms and 5 tracks. So we have a lot of room to do whatever we want on Sundays. On Sundays
preferably, I'm trying to open up everything to the community so people can just come down, submit
talks and almost kind of have like an unconference kind of thing where we just open up the entire
building to everyone and the community basically designs their own event in a way. Almost like a
BOF like Birds of a Feather Talk where anybody can come up and speak for a period of time.
Yeah, it's basically like a Birds of a Feather Talk, but just for the entire day and like every
classroom and track, if we can fill up every classroom and track then we can. This is going to be
a Fedora Ambassador Mario. I don't remember the last thing right now. He's going to be bringing a lot
of Fedora people. They might have a classroom or two. Fedora themselves might have an entire track
also. It almost might be like a mini foot con within the Northeast Camila next fast. So we're
working on that also. Hey, Jonathan, I want to ask, are you going to have anybody in doing any
certification tests like the LPI or anything? Yes, I'm speaking to them in the next day or two
once everyone's back in the office. I believe they will be there and Drew Levine will also be doing a
BSD test also. Sweet. You think I'm going to come in down sound chaser? Yeah, I need to do my LPI
level too at some point. So I might want to stop there and do that and get to see everybody up there.
Yeah, like I said, hopefully the next day or two, I'm going to get in touch with them and finalize
everything because Drew Levine offered to watch over the test and everything to administer the test.
So LPI should be there. I just don't take this pause opportunity. This pause of
a conversation to say, welcome to Tony Hughes. Hi, Tony. Welcome, Tony. Hi, hi guys. Hi, Tony. Hi,
Tony. How are you? Well, if we're welcoming people, I'm welcome Rougi, who has a really cool
podcast and came in a couple of minutes ago. What would the podcast be? I don't remember what it's
called when you've got an episode for an email over to admin at hackerpublicradio.org and we'll
put it in the stream as a promoted podcast. Speak. Speak in creating podcasts. What software are
most you using to create this podcast? I use garage band. You too. Just kidding. I don't
know. It depends if you're going to do a collaboration. Mumble is pretty much the best thing you can do.
Second best to that would be Skype with Skype audio recorder, but Mumble definitely does a
better job. And if you're doing a solo, Audacity works great or you can even just record it into a
standalone recorder and then transfer it over to Audacity. And Jonathan, I wanted to say for the
Northeast Linux Fest, make sure you schedule some lunchtime because we got to go to the border cafe
down there. It's like one of my favorite restaurants. Consider it done in my friend. Hey,
do you plan on coming down Friday? Because I got a room for you, you can crash in, so. Oh, maybe,
then. Because if you come down Friday, that might that might work out better if you can come down
Friday night. You, me, door, Cody, whoever else is around Friday, we can go go wherever and hang out.
That'd be really cool. Happy New Year, Afghanistan. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year. Yeah, troops and locals alike. I think some of our troops are getting pulled out of
there this year. Yeah, we're definitely having the drawdown of service from the UK troops.
I have a friend that's going in there as a private contractor for security.
So you were asking about recording podcasts? Yeah.
Yeah, so that's that's basically it. Mumble and and Audacity be the top two choices. In fact,
you could even use mumble as a solo recorder. You can just loop it back or just hit record and
it would work fine. Or you can use for using GNOME. You can use, I think it's just called sound
recorder. That works pretty well. All right. Tell me what you do. SLX.
Tony, for the full-cycle podcast, what do you do? We've been experimenting recently.
We tried using mumble a couple of episodes ago and it didn't work and we tried it again this time
and it didn't work. We've been having problems getting all four of us on the same channel.
For some reason. Are you all in the same room when you're doing this?
Reese, the very first episode that we recorded, we did. We used Studio One, which was my front room,
but since then we've tried it. I think we recorded the second one via Google Hangout and then,
like I said, the last one we've just done, we actually ended up recording via Skype.
We need a podcast expert to give us a how-to on Hacker Public Radio. That would be an awesome
episode. There's been my ten of them. I was joking. The easiest Tony is just here in the
mumble room. You just press record and everybody's got a recording of it. It's really nice and
clean what comes out because when people are talking it just puts zeros and so if everybody's
levels seem pretty okay then you get a very good audio quality at the end. I think some stage
that's going to be the plan is to try and get it done via mumble. What file? Let's say we have
a finished file. We have it in a wave. Would you accept a flag file or would you want something
like a higher bit rate agboribus or what's preferred to be uploaded to the FTP? Per HPR? Yes.
If you've got a wild file from mumble then just a wild file from mumble. If you've saved it as a
flag, give us the flag. If you're in an area for people, if you're in an area with bad bandwidth,
then send what you can because HPR is about content and not necessarily quality. So
if you if all we can get is a highly encoded stream, well that's fine, that's all we can get.
But the beauty of your work with a flag or a wild file for us is you can convert it down into a
pretty good known format from there so you can get good compression on the various different
losses formats. Hey everyone, this is verbal. Hey verbal from verbal. Hey, how's everything?
Hey I usually use audacity and maybe it's just because I started with audacity and you know
sometimes it's hard to change but I'm just wondering about our door and if anybody had any
you know comments on that. I think personally I feel like our door is a little bit of
overkill for a spoken word podcast. I'm sure there are some some die hard DAW users that would
disagree with me but I've I mean I could use it but I just never bother because it just feels so
feels a little bit like it's overkill. Yeah, I would agree with a clot too. I mean it'd be like
taking an Indianapolis card and drive down the grocery store to get groceries because it's kind of
no need. And I think our door is better at edit or for me that I'm more used to the interface of
our door to I mean not our door audacity to edit like you know out the little ums and the
uhs and the smacks of the lips that you don't want in your in your podcast whereas our door doesn't
really it kind of assumes that your sound is good and that you just want to kind of arrange it
and affect it and stuff like that. It's not so much geared towards like cutting out little snippets
of things here and there. That said it's a lot more flexible in terms of how you apply effects
but I don't know. Still audacity I think it seems to be a lot more about let's get this thing
recorded, edited, cleaned up and out the door. What about Q tractor clot too? Would you suggest
that before you suggested our door? No I wouldn't. That's not the same thing. Yeah yeah same
same deal. I've actually I've recorded a couple in Q tractor and looking back I'm just like oh
that was so much more work for the same exact result like just pointless. But if you wanted to add
music to the back of it you know for people who listen to double speed then maybe our doors
which you want. You can add extra tracks and audacity also though. Yeah you can do that I do that
all the time. Oh yeah I know I was kidding. You was just kidding. How is audacity treating everyone
lately? It's been really stable for me but I've heard otherwise from other people sometimes.
Yeah I use it for um the really episodes of Distribute Key that I record and it's great fine.
I had my first audacity crash in probably two or three years and it was all my fault.
I had some weird things with some of the recent builds and I don't know if it's just
my distro or what was going on but every now and then I would just lose the menu and it was like
what's going on? Why is it why is that getting lost but I haven't tried it in a few weeks so maybe
there's been some changes. I've been using it without too much trouble but I think I can
give sound chase or a clue here. I don't think it is necessarily audacity that's doing it because
at least with me it'll happen to several programs and it has something to do with the operating
system. What I did find however when I have no menus if I do a control end to get a new window
then all my windows show up in the new window. Glad to. How did you compile the audacity on your
system? You used the Slack build, right? What options did you use? Pretty much exactly what they
gave me in the Slack build. I think I turned on sound touch and too lame just for kicks but otherwise
I just stuck with whatever the Slack build had. Cloth 2 of the correct response would have been
buy a copy of Slacker Media and find out. Yeah, I'm really bad at marketing. Just a quick add
another word on the experience with audacity. My crash is pretty consistently just about once per
episode and it's usually just if I click too fast between playing and repositioning the cursor
but I love the recovery. I'm never panic anymore because it always recovers great.
Oh my crash was unrecoverable. I recorded too long and didn't have enough room
in my Etsy folder so I had to move the working directory in my home folder. Why is your working
directory in your Etsy folder? I think it's because of my default. No. Where's it going to fall?
I'm going to be in like a slash TMP. Oh sorry, slash temp, you're right, wasn't it? It was temp,
you're right. Sorry. Scared me there for a minute, Pokey. Yeah, that's really scary and that's
an out of good place. I was going to mention that. You really want to make sure that your TMP
folder has a lot of space because it's going to get used and you can get a lot of crashes if you
run out of TMP space. If that's where your TMP files are being saved to. Yeah, I had once made the
mistake of making a too small of a root directory, what do you call partition that housed the
temp directory and when that filled off it was because of the lack of temp space that caused the
majority of the problems. What is it? Easy fix for that is just to move it into your home directory
somewhere. Just make a hidden TMP file there or whatever if your home directory is bigger.
Yeah, what I had done was when I was working on any project, I actually set up a directory
structure so that I had a temp space within the project for audacity.eu files. So all those are
stored there. Now that can take more space because you're going to end up leaving a lot of files
behind. But then again, you can also clean them up whenever you want to. So that was the way I handled
it. So I'm sure you're still running savvy on, right? Yes, I am. Wow, you've really stuck with that.
I didn't think you'd know you'd take to it because you just tried that fairly recently, right? Like a
year ago, maybe. Yeah, it was back around February, March. That was when I was going through and I
played with all the desktops again and started using savvy on at that point and I've stuck with it.
So have you upgraded it from like say if like savvy on five to six, have you done any type of
upgrades like that or if you have how well is it gone? Yeah, I have done upgrades like that.
Although ironically, the one time I actually did do that, I had actually really messed up my
system because of some stuff I had done to it and actually went ahead and reloaded from media.
So I haven't done an in place upgrade on it. Okay. Hey, Rougi, if you're listening, you're a
Gentoo user and I think maybe a savvy on. How do upgrades go on Gentoo and savvy on?
There. Sappy on this. Yeah, I found that about a few years ago swimming and people on
that I see were using a weapon. I tried that out in a virtual machine, I think, maybe for live CD
or whatever it was anywhere and I was like, oh, wow, you got me music on the install and there's like,
I thought that was quite interesting. I could have music when it's installing and stuff like that
or loading up and well, it's just like an easy version of Gentoo really, I think for those who
don't really know about, I think mint but sort of a bit of Gentoo instead and those are stuff
there by default or something like that. Yeah, I have to say I mean for the little while,
very little while that I ran savvy on a couple of weeks ago, I really really enjoyed
Emerge specifically and otherwise it just seemed like a really nice distribution but in the end,
I just couldn't, couldn't be bothered to learn something new at that time but I'll probably go
back to either savvy on or Gentoo for another look around. Yeah, just don't mix Equal and Emerge
in savvy on because they're two totally different packaging systems. Yeah, and that kind of bugs me.
I mean, that's sort of like that's kind of what inspired me to stop running savvy on at some
point because I was like, it kept asking me to do updates through their little package manager
but I was trying to manage my system through Emerge and so I was like, okay, I just need to get,
I just need to look at Gentoo for real and kind of, you know, if I'm going to try this, do it the
right way. So that's probably what I'll end up trying. Yeah, because I sat with the savvy on,
I used to be called like entropy or whatever but does that install like just binary stuff and
Emerge is doing the source-based stuff? Yeah. Yeah, basically entropy is the front end for
the Equal system and Equal is using the binary packages that savvy on builds from the Gentoo
packages. Emerge is actually basically going to the straight Gentoo portage and actually getting
the source code packages from there. So basically they're basically two separate systems, two
separate databases, two separate sets of timestamps and everything on your install stuff.
And I think, Clot 2, what you would want to do, I think you can actually disable entropy
in savvy on so it would stop telling you to upgrade through that if you want to just use Emerge instead.
Well, not to say that my distra is better than your distra, but Slackware loves me to install.
Yeah, really he's going to do it anyway.
Binary's and from source code without any kind of conflict whatsoever, just FYI,
just throwing that out there. So does Arch. Yeah, no one wants to hear about Arch again. We've
gotten enough Arch last year. Arch, you just have to worry about updating. You always have to read
the feed to see if anything's going to go wrong. Hey, Clot 2, there's a Slackware question,
might not be aware of it or know how to answer it. But you know, when you first put in the
disk, like the DVD and ask which kernel you want to use. Yeah, they do have a speak up version of
the kernel, but I can't figure out what exactly have to type into enable to tell I want to use the
speak up modified version of the kernel. I was talking to a talk on my distro. Let's me install from.
Okay, so for what Jonathan was saying, Jonathan, I don't know, I used to know it used to be speak up.s.
I have not tried it on the latest release, so I do not know for sure that that is still what you
type in, but that is what it used to be speak up.s. I actually, I used a, I installed with that once
just for kicks, not that I have speak up or anything like that. So it didn't do anything for me. But
yeah, it totally worked. I think I tried to go to the generic kernel recently, and that wasn't there,
which is why I'm hesitating to say, oh, just just type in speak up.s. Because at this point,
I don't know that that's still the right thing to type in. Yeah, because I know the Gen 2,
like when you download whatever they're called, like the different builds you can download.
But the Gen 2, if you, I can't remember the exact command, but you can type in something like,
you know, speak up dot whatever, then you have to put like, like synth and quotes or whatever.
So that way just does, I think soft synth or synth equals soft that way, it just does speak up
with the software synthesizer, like in the computer, because I think with the Slackware one,
you actually have to have a physical, a physical synthesizer plugged into a serial port. So that's
why I was wondering if you knew the Slackware was the same way as the Gen 2 or what? I am almost
sure that it is not. I mean, I have not, I have not played around with it to try to find out.
I've always assumed from what, from what I understand, you have to have the physical hardware synth
and that's, and I don't have access to that. So I haven't played around with that much. Yeah.
Hey guys, what's happening with Ubuntu in 46 hours per in minutes and 13 seconds?
They're announcing something. No one knows what. We just, is he just speculating that way?
Get poopy on, let's get him on the horn here and see what's going on.
I was holding it, I released a screenshot, something on the battlefield.
I was holding it in articles speculating that they were going to get a muzzle for Mark Shuttle
worth. So he wouldn't piss off everyone every time he opened his mouth.
And one for Jono Bacon too.
Jono's job is to clean up after Mark, except when he pisses off.
Oh, remess.
He made a nice apologize for what he said about RMS.
Yeah, I think, I don't think that was intentional on him in fairness, but
even fairness or remess starts it.
Well, actually RMS is, I mean, you'd take it or leave it with him.
Speaking of like RMS and the FSF, I don't know if Clot 2 you saw,
but like the maintainer of said is like dropping out or whatever, he's...
Yeah, I saw that post, yeah.
Yeah, that's weird, that's crazy.
I mean, I feel like that kind of stuff, I mean, I guess, for if really,
it's kind of interesting to look at at it.
But I mean, I have no idea what they're talking about, like,
coding standards and things like these.
This means nothing to me as a mere user, so I don't even understand.
But some of these points were interesting, I thought.
Like the GNU brand, not being really something that has the same
power that it used to back before, I guess, whatever, Linux or whatever.
So some interesting points.
Yeah, you're saying almost kind of lost it's like, you know, back in the day,
if you said, oh, I work for the GNU project, it's kind of like bragging rights,
but now it's kind of like, you know, some people might be like, what project,
you know, and he's, as he's kind of saying, it's kind of lost it's, you know,
not credibility, but I don't know.
Keshe.
It's impact, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I never understand why they pushed the whole free sulfur thing
instead of GNU sulfur.
Okay, I know there are two different things, but GNU and free sulfur or something.
Well, you know, I thought the thing I took away from that that was more interesting was the
relationship between the GNU group and the free software foundation
sounds like it needs to be worked on.
It sounds like you need some major refinement that over time,
they've kind of drifted apart and they really need to realign themselves so that they're
more in tune with each other and present a better front to the overall public.
You're right.
I just, for some reason, I, lately I haven't been very interested in like,
marketing and how you present yourself and branding and stuff like that.
It's just kind of lost its appeal to me.
I started to just be like, I don't care.
Just give me the software.
Let me play on my computer.
Well, but it goes to more things than that.
I mean, because you like one of the things that he pointed out in that article that he wrote
was that some of the projects that needed to get more funding through the free sulfur foundation
weren't getting the funding.
You know, stuff like Gnash that really need to be pushed more or some of those
user land libraries that really needed to be developed by the GNU group weren't getting done
because they weren't getting the funding and then they weren't getting the priority set
that they needed to through the FSF.
So, more kind of organizational problem sounds like an issue to me.
But surely there is no priority higher than EMAX.
Absolutely, look at that.
There is none higher.
Yeah, I think to an article, he was kind of saying like, almost like some of the GNU technology
or whatever has sort of been like leapfrogged in a sense to where some of it is even like relevant
anymore and he was saying like they kind of missed the boat like with feet dragging and like
sound chase was saying like not getting the proper funding to move forward quicker and faster
that they've been leapfrogged in a sense with other technologies.
Totally agree.
That's pretty much what my point was.
Good summary of it.
And things went quiet.
Join us now and share the soul for you be free hackers you'll be.
What's going on?
Is there a way we can stop him from doing that again?
No.
Talk.
This, um, Ubuntu thing.
It's got to be pretty big though because it's like it's on their front page.
So, I like dedicating the whole above the fold area on their front page.
So, it's got to be quite significant, don't you think?
Like we're soft takeover, maybe?
I think it starts there for a mobile phone as far as this.
Nobody will want it because they already have Android and they have Android for free.
Google pays for the support of it.
There is no way they want to add the additional 50 cents that it would cost per component to
ship with this.
And they think, I don't know, I would be tempted to have a Debian type OS on my phone.
I think that would be cool.
Yes.
So, I could run shell scripts and stuff and.
I can tell you it would be cool.
I mean, I had a nice, the very given point for shipping any of these devices or, you know,
there are millions of units.
There's not that number of people in the free software community to warrant getting one of these phones.
Oh, you think it'll be a complete, a complete unit, a hardware and software in one,
as opposed to just, just like a downloadable ROM.
No, it's a device.
It's a device.
This has to be a device.
What for are we talking about?
The Ubuntu son.
The speculative Ubuntu phone.
It may not even be in the Ubuntu.
Maybe it's going to be a tablet.
Maybe it's going to be a tablet.
It's even if it is a tablet device, are you going to, it'll be yet another runner in the tablet OS
and the phone OS that's, you've got Android out there, which people can take, modify.
If they're not happy with that, they've got WebOS, which they can take, modify.
Do they really want to use a new Ubuntu system on a phone?
So, what if they had it so you could actually run Android apps within it?
But it was a full Linux stack.
It doesn't matter for your SDK, for the guys who are building their crud and on top of it.
What device manufacturer is going to build a phone with the Ubuntu running on it?
Whoever you pay, I guess.
Yeah, I was going to say it depends on if the money's right.
The factories in China will build anything, won't they?
You have to keep in mind, they've been selling a lot of pre-actual PCs in Asia with Ubuntu pre-installed
and maybe in the Asian markets that something like that's more attractive because if they already
have their Ubuntu PC or laptop having their Ubuntu tablet might be attractive over there.
So, maybe it won't make sense in Europe or the Americas, but it might make more sense in Asia.
Do you think there's a clue in the, you can almost touch it?
Yeah, it's a little sort of touch device.
Yeah, I think that as well, it's police, some sort of touch device.
A phone, probably not a tablet, maybe.
But yeah, obviously trying to get people interested early on, so they're doing the thing on site.
I think a phone that's going to be interesting is the, I talked to a girl that works for Mozilla
and she got a Firefox OS phone a couple weeks ago and this sounds like an interesting,
like they might be able to cover some ground with the Firefox OS because everything is written
in HTML and on every app, you can click on View Source and see exactly how every app is made
and running on your phone, which I thought was pretty cool.
Cool, I can't be up to developers like that.
I don't see why you want it.
So, you got the source code to angry birds?
Well, I guess if they're going to make an HTML5 version of angry birds, I guess you would.
Could you still run like cute apps?
Like, if I made a QML app, could I put that on the Firefox OS?
Everything in Firefox OS is going to be HTML5.
Cool. And so, what they're doing is, you know, it's,
I don't want to say it's like a Chrome, you know, Chrome OS or Chrome OS, but like, you know,
obviously everything, it's like the Firefox browsers of the OS. So, what they're doing is they're
tying into the add-ons, like functionality. So, within the add-ons functionality, all the
applications that you want to run would be within that so that, like, it'd be kind of like the store
or whatever would be, you know, the add-on functionality within the browser.
You'd see some ways how that would be good, but also some ways where I don't think
it would be established. Like, the thing runs the same problem as Chrome OS.
Yeah, you have a lot of web apps and a lot of online services that you can get,
but when you actually have full-featured apps, it's a little harder to get by those.
I think Firefox OS is quite interesting. I read about it before, or you speak all boot to get code,
the old name or the code name. Anyway, interested in because, yeah, everything's supposed to be done
in HTML5 using web standards, as a result, it's supposed to be all like open, open software,
freedom respecting and all that kind of thing. And so, more open and all pre-software respecting
an Android, I guess, as well. And that's what would make it interesting for people like us,
really, I guess. I don't get me wrong. I think it's cool to be able to view the source code, but
the HTML device would have to solve the offline issue, as you said before.
But it also, I don't think, would get the developer, you know, this whole, everything has to be an
app right now thing to make it viable to be a massively deployed phone. Not that I'm encouraging people
to do that, because I would prefer to live in a world where you can go view source on your apps.
That's why Firefox is pushing this way, because it's like, I don't know who it's just saying it,
but they want to push the open centers, the open web, they don't want the web to be locked down,
they don't want people to not access the web and just use applications on their phones. So,
that's the whole push is to bring people back to the open web using open standards.
How fast is it rendering? I haven't got a chance to talk to because I have to talk to you once
you've used it for a few weeks or whatever, I've got to know how it works. And another great thing
about it is the phone is supposed to run on really low specs. It's not going to take much to
really run it, because it's all web days. So, I think they're officially going to really launch
it in Brazil once it finally does launch at first, because they want to make a big push in
the kind of like countries like that, developing countries and stuff where, you know,
those are the whole wireless spectrum. The whole wireless spectrum is a lot bigger and like
developing countries because they're leapfrogging the infrastructure that was never built for like
hard-line stuff. So, you know, so they're trying to make a push down there.
Does this mean we'll finally have smartphones that last longer than a day?
Uh, potentially. I would make a new better batteries. Yes, that's right. Okay, we're joke.
Where did it just turn into 2013?
Sorry, are you ready or maybe?
Russia, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Azerbaijan, Reunion, Georgia,
Seychelles, Mauritius, and Armenia, and the rest of Russia. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year.
I was thinking, uh, and sorry for jumping in and walking on your earlier Jonathan,
there was a long pause and I jumped in and you already talking and it's because I was
listening to a stream with a delay, because I was trying to monitor that. I didn't mean to step
20 before. No problem at all. Yeah, what, um, that a Ubuntu thing, uh, when
coinominal, you said the, uh, you can almost touch it. That made me think that if they really wanted
to jump ahead of the market, which is really the only way you can, you can win, you can keep
chasing and expect to get ahead. But if they want to jump ahead, then they would do something like
the, um, the Google Glasses or some type of, uh, you know, the, um, what do you call augmented
reality? That that would be the thing to do. I think they really want to jump ahead.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure there yet. There are quite there yet. Yeah, I should have worked
those out of that kind of money. The thing is, uh, how are you going to type in a kind of, uh,
Google Glass thing, unless you're having a full voice interface or you're able to somehow use
your thoughts in order to manipulate it. It's either you're going to seem like you're talking to yourself
like the people that have the Bluetooth headsets and you'll just look goofy or you have something
that could read your thoughts where it better damn well have the, uh, open source, because you
better want to know what it's doing or how it's broadcasting your thoughts. I think most
users don't even require a keyboard anymore to be honest with you. Most people are just point
in clickers. I believe the, like, the current, you know, glasses that are being let the few people
are using. It is running off like an Android phone. So you have the phone in your pocket and
you'd probably use like a Bluetooth connection. This probably, I think this microphones in like the
part that goes around your ear and the glasses. So you can kind of talk and do commands that way.
I quite like the whole, the way Ubuntu and Canonico are moving. I mean, I don't use Ubuntu
myself, but I think I might be tempted back to it if I could have Ubuntu on my phone,
Ubuntu on my desktop, you know, Ubuntu on my tele and Ubuntu on my tablet. Sorry,
but I think Ubuntu is completely losing the plot. They're following you all the time. Reminds me
of that song, rock and roll. I give you all the best years of my life. Those of you who can remember
that far back to seem to be chasing OSX, chasing Android. They will never get on a set-up box.
Because they will never get on the set-up box. So my, they're only hope is to get on the
television, but set up boxes, they won't because they... Are you kidding me? Yes, I think they're
probably well. And I can say, I think if they can do it in a way which it's almost a seamless
integration between your phone, your tablet, your desktop and your, you know, your living room,
display, you know, I think that's for me, that's quite an attractive offer. It's a move away,
it's a possible move away from Google. Because Google pretty much do all of that now. And,
you know, I use it, but I'm not overly happy about the fact that it's Google. But if it was
canonical or an Ubuntu, you know, it's a, it's a little bit closer to freedom, I think.
I think canonical is more likely to come out with a set-top box than any of these other things.
I mean, just look at what they're doing with, with, with, uh, steams.
There's only in set-top boxes. I'll tell you right now, look at Motorola. It's one of the
largest set-top manufacturers in the world. Give me, give me one tenth of one percent of the money
that funnels through them to steam and I'll make money on a set-top box. Yeah, I think what's
seen is working for a cable company. Set-top boxes are just a complete drain on, um, the amount of
money that costs every component and there is considered to be 50 cents. So, but they're not going
to make money on, on the hardware. They're going to make money on the value added services.
Do you want to say, uh, people, sorry, open to one and stuff like that.
And a Ubuntu steam box that has a tablet as a controller.
Yeah, but steam seems just using Ubuntu for testing ground. They're going to turn around and
want to get everything working the way they want. They'll build their own box, take Ubuntu,
build it their own way they want and just keep Ubuntu out of the loop. We will never be on a set-top box
supplied by a cable refrigerator like a steambox. And a decade in the steam box.
Okay, you know, you're just, you know, it's a device such a, like a roll crewbox,
such you can go down to the store and buy and plug it into your TV.
Right, or like a next box, basically, or a PlayStation, except all it does is play Steam games.
If you think about the services they've been setting up, especially with Ubuntu 1, they've
already got the music streaming music service, so you've already got your sharing photos,
videos. It's all there, they just need the interface, the 10-foot interface for the
telly, and they're pretty much nailed it. Whether it'll get adopted or not, I don't know.
I mean, I definitely would think about it.
Well, they've already got the Ubuntu TV. They just don't have any hardware manufacturers
using it at this point, so that they're already working on the TV side of things.
Yeah, definitely. They've had that last year, I think, I was a girl. She did some video casts,
I can't remember. She was, yeah, it makes her pixel worse for revision free. She did some interviews
with some Ubuntu devs at some show, and they had it on display, but I think it was quite an
early beta. They won't get any TVs, at least in the US, unless they have proper Netflix support.
I think that the one that could be able to fix unless they can do DRM.
I think I agree with the other guy that I was going to say, they might get the TVs and stuff
like that, and then maybe I would want to use Ubuntu TV when saying that.
Might get the phones, might get the tablets, you know, it might take quite a few years, but they
might get there in the end. And that's for Netflix. Well, yeah, that's one of the services people
want to use, and more recently, somebody did come up with unofficial support for Netflix,
for Linux. That Ubuntu combined and some other distributions, if they want to do it.
And that's for Steam, they're not just using Ubuntu as a test ground, I think.
They're using it, I think they've gone for Ubuntu first, because that's where a lot of desktop
links users are, and they're kind of users who want to play games and try out Steam. But it does
seem that they are interested in Steam coming to other Linux distributions as well, from what I've
read. But guys, the point is, even if they do develop a box, if it doesn't support
N10 DRM right from the top, right down, things like Hulu will be blocked, things like
I play in the UK will be blocked, things like Netflix will not be on there,
all these devices require N10 certifiable DRM right down to the chips.
Whatever you think about that, I understand what most people on this channel will probably think
about, but you see what happens when Google TV comes on and they actively block.
The major cable operators actively block Google TV.
Yeah, and I agree, I think it's a complete pain in the ass.
The, I've got a Netflix account, and at the moment I have to use my PS3 to watch Netflix,
I'm not happy about it, I'd much rather be able to use something Myth TV, for example,
something like that, or XBMC, you know, something free, but you just can't do it, and it's
pain. Yeah, there's some of you can come up with a new Netflix for Ubuntu.
Yeah, it's using wine, so they're implementing the run on the wine, the windows application in wine
as far as I understand it. Yeah, silver light. I think it's running off of a specialized browser
with silver light installed under wine. No, no, why red is basically what some of these done
is they made the PPA for Ubuntu, and then, and the space C is wine, but it's been patched,
and then to run Netflix you have to run the windows version of Firefox as well,
and, and then silver light for windows inside that as well, and then it should work,
then the DRM should work and so on, and then at least a distribution called
for Ubuntu, which is for door-based, and I've known like main developer on IOC,
but he's been working on support for for Ubuntu, for Ubuntu as well, for example,
so it can be used in other distributions as well, not just Ubuntu, this Netflix support,
as long as it's like that for it. But this isn't anything that an official business could
legally ship. No, absolutely not. I mean, what we all want is an unencrypted stream coming from
every area, but that's simply not going to happen, and you see it, you see in some, it depends
where you are, in some countries it's legally been opened up, and in other countries like the US,
they've just recently allowed the FCC to allow broadcasters to encrypt all channels,
so you know, your free-tier channels that you had on HD after the changeover, those will now
slowly start getting encrypted. I'm not so sure that I'm going to agree with you Ken that it will
never happen, if you were to say, you know, won't happen in the next couple of years. Sorry,
that's what I mean, won't happen in the next, there will need to be a fundamental mind shift,
there will need to be a fundamental shift in technology like what happened then, I don't know,
MP3 or whatever, that will force it to occur, but the standard modus operandi of the
cable industries and the content providers is to make sure this stuff is encrypted and make sure it's
secure, quote, unquote, secure end to end, and that's written in the contract that the suppliers will get.
Oh yeah, I understand the current legal situation, but you mentioned MP3s, and that's, you know,
you can get MP3s without DRM just about everywhere now, and it was very interesting, I think just
this past week I saw another study that had looked at in music, they found that the people
who were pirating were also the ones who were spending the most money buying music.
Yeah, I'm not arguing any of this with you, I'm not arguing any of these points with you,
and I firmly believe, I mean, you look here in the Netherlands, it's a perfect case and point,
we pay a tax on every device that we, that is capable of recording, this goes back to, you know,
when cassette tapes come out and the record industry were going, oh no, you're going to
black bootleg all our music and we're never going to, you know, we're all going to the
so what the government did was they put a levy of around five euros, which is about seven
dollars on every device, such a purchase, on every CD that you get, there's a levy on every MP3
player, every phone, every hard disk, everything has got this levy on it, and then there, then the
went to court, you know, somebody downloaded some music and it went to court and it was argued well,
you know, I've already paid the levy on this, so therefore illegal downloading, court illegal
downloading is actually legal in the Netherlands, now they wanted to the last fascist government,
sorry fascist, the last government wanted to resend that, but luckily this government has seen
the light, and the, so what they're doing is they're increasing the levy on other devices still
allowing it to be legal to download, what that means is if you do a bit torrent, your download is
legal, but your upload is illegal, and it's only true for music and movies, not for, not for the
copying of proprietary software, so to get to your point, in this country you would imagine
then there would be no market for video and demand, and you would imagine there would be no
market for Spotify or iTunes or Netflix, and yet all these companies providing these services
are still able to do that, even though there is a large amount of people who will download
movies and stuff from, from news torrent service because that's one way and you won't get
prosecuted for that, but that just is a case in points that if an entire country operates where
it is legal to download, that you can still operate a service based on the convenience of being
able to download. I have two points now then, one is that the tax I read, I read about this recently,
but it sounds like they were going to possibly pull it on laptops and computers as well when
being sold, not just CDs and CDRs and DVDs, and the other point is the one about music and what
the chem was saying, so even if you can download music perfectly legally that you would normally
be paying for, some people are still going to want to pay for it, be that a streaming service
or whatever reason, like Spotify, or even see the albums, so people will still pay possibly,
and others might look for the alternative music, the tremendous, the creative commons music,
those who know about it, of course, but yeah, I know it's a comment, sorry, okay, go ahead.
I was going to say to comment, I'm what a hookah said before as to the correlation between people
who pirate media and people who buy media, which is playing devil's advocate, the industry looks
at that and goes, imagine how much more they would buy if we could stop them from pirating, so
it's not, I mean, you can't assume these people have any sense about such things.
I don't assume that they do, in fact, I think it's more likely that the industry will get
disintermediated because the artists by and large have figured it out.
There's a lot more people, so publishing, and I think that's a plus.
I thought a very interesting, this is an ebook one, but author, fairly well-known science fiction
author, I'm probably going to mangle his name, Paolo Bachigalupi or something like that,
who was caught torrenting his own book, and the publisher got really mad at him that he said,
look, when I torrent them, my sales go up.
You first have to know that the author's out there because normally if you, let's say you get
a torrent and say, oh, this guy's good, what else has he done? Then you go out and buy some of his
books. Some of the stuff might be too rare to find on a torrent, so you have to go through his
store. I could understand exactly how it would lead to sales.
That's what Cory Doctorow says, that the enemy of the artist is not piracy, it's obscuros.
No one knows you're there, you're not going to sell anything. A lot of artists are starting to
figure out that if they put their stuff out. Another great example, Scott Sigler,
basically created his own audio versions of his books, put them out for free in his website,
and then as a result of that, got a contract with a publishing house to publish his books in print.
Don't they put a lot of the success of the Gangnam style video down to piracy and remixes and
stuff like that? I'm sure he made like 8 million or something. I think remixes are really big. I think
sometimes a lot of people get exposed to the original through a remix that they hear or see and
get some interest in. In fact, I think I've seen a lot of the videos actually through remixes because
through remixes you have more and more videos and this sort of exponentially gets bigger on the
amount of videos that are in the base and it all points towards the original. That's true. The Gangman
whatever one I saw the Klingon style first and I was thinking this has to be a parody of something
I wonder what the original was. Gangnam style. I like the Lopin style. There was a big trouble
with China parody. I think within the artistic communities there's it's kind of a split debate
right because I mean if you are an obscure artist that no one has heard of or two people have heard of
and everyone doesn't like then you're all for torrents and for all this independent
publicity whereas it's only the people making bank on their stuff that are actually opposed to
this because they've already got the name recognition so I'm not sure how that affects like the
argument for or against a torrent if you already are selling stuff versus if you're someone who
needs the exposure. Well here's the thing. A reason why someone might torrent a well-known person is
I mean sometimes you got into a thing where there's an album and there's only one decent good
song that's on the whole thing so you could use the torrent as a way of previewing the album and
if it's a good album you'll just buy it whereas you might just be hesitant to buy the album to begin
with because you don't know if you're going to get burned. Yeah yeah it's like a almost like the
model of how they're selling the stuff in the first place is broken. One of the effects that I think
we're seeing particularly with movies is that if you put out a bad one people will know about it
before you've even opened and so bad movies don't have a chance to make back their investment.
You know good ones probably do better. Well we saw this happen already radio had did it and
they actually made more money than before because they got to take a bigger slice of the pie even
though they were you know letting people set their own price even if it's nothing.
Yeah Louis CK did it with a comedy show and Nynish Nils has done it and it seems to be working out
for them. Do you want to have a little side fact factoid? You know remember the regions thing from DVDs
where they had region stuff that used to annoy everybody and now suddenly everything's worldwide
released dates. You know why you don't why those things were set up in the first place?
The whole region thing was because the cellularist tape would be released. They'd only print a certain
number of copies for the movie theaters in the US and the tapes would physically go from theater to
theater. So when the tapes were finished going around region one they go to region two. So even if
you saw a new movie in in Europe it would have that same reel would have played in 100 theaters in
the US and then when it was finished there it would go to the next theater and then next theater
and then next region and next region and next region and of course contracts have been developed
and rights have been developed based on that model structure but because of social media and
stuff they've noticed that if a movie is released in the US it's torrented people review it and go
oh no I'm not going to bother going to see that until that's out in DVD or something. So now the
do world right releases so that they can beat the torrent they can beat the social networks before
you know to get the big case on the first day of launch. They're also filming digitally so I guess
it makes it all easier you don't have the cellular tape. No I did like 10 11 years ago when I moved
to the Netherlands first I was working on the satellite industry where we had the technology to
broadcast movies within 15 to 20 minutes the theater is around Europe so you know you would
broadcast over the satellite it was extremely cheap to do it was extremely cost-effective
digital theaters nobody wanted it because the business models were this is how we do it it goes
from theater to theater to theater and we'll continue doing it with the tape. This is an example
of been a problem I economist had again of something that Schumpeter called creative destruction
and it's happened many times but I think this is the first time it's happened so publicly that
a large number of people are right in the middle of it going what the fuck is happening here.
But you know the technology is making the business models obsolete and you know that's got to
be the starting point there that the the old business models are just not going to survive.
Now what takes their place you know we're still working all that out you know 20 or 30 years from
now it'll all be clear but we're in the middle of it. Well and I see I think part of the thing about
that is that it's the wrong people who are realizing that the business models are not working now
it's only the the middlemen in the marketing area you know in the companies that actually
did the distribution in that that realized this. The artists themselves realize it to some degree
but they don't seem to have actually gotten to a point where they can actually say we're going to go
and do something completely different from what the old industry is doing and it's really getting the
the artists some way for the artists to actually work so they can get out of that system and
still derive a living that that's going to make the big difference I think.
And so now how much time actually over time I guess sorry for but if you think about it now
the people who are you know the big hits the the old system now is built around a small number
of really mega stars yeah and then you have the gelatin cold and the new model is a lot of people
making a moderate living from this whole thing with a few superstars arising from that.
So what we're in the pipeline now is a lot of guys and girls who've met a lot of money you know
who've paid the dues to the record industry suddenly are starting to you know hit it big
finally get some money back on their on the investment that they've put in all these years
and then they don't want to see that business model broken you know but you talk to somebody else
lower down the food chain who just signed away five year contract for all their music and
they will have a different story for you. The whole thing is uh with the book publishing
there's more and more people self-publishing and they're going through Amazon. So
Amazon's making out pretty big and it seems to be working out a little better for the actual writers
if they're good but also there's some scary things going around because uh when you have a
single distributor that has full say over what gets published and then what's going to be on their
servicer and what's not and also uh one that could deweat all your library collection off your
device it kind of uh could be worse in some ways. Cornomal's situation with with Google actually
what concerns me a little is they um you know we're having these major brands now that are global
worldwide brands and I know you guys were talking about supermarket food chains but these are
even small peanut players compared to the global brands of Amazon, Google and you put in a
lot of power into these people's hands I think. Yeah but how easy or difficult is that to change?
I am a little skeptical that Google or Amazon is going to have any sort of permanent
monopoly position that they can exploit. Amazon I could see Amazon having one because they
are one of the biggest retailers and in the book space they're like the go-to place for books.
But it might still be temporary if Amazon is uh they're trying to be a new type of a middleman
right. The middleman is the is the what's changing or it's a dynamic. Yeah let me put my
economist back on again for this one. You know when you're talking about monopoly in order to
exploit it you have to be able to prevent competition from happening. So right now Amazon is
dominant but they're largely dominant because they've made it very inexpensive and convenient.
Now for them to exploit that would be to say all right we've got a monopoly we're now going to
jack up the price and screw all of you customers and I think the minute they try to do that
everyone goes somewhere else. You know you're you're just talking about bits flowing over the
internet. If I don't get them from Amazon I'll get them somewhere else. Yeah well talk about
middleman uh people like cable companies. I mean they are in the most dire straits because uh
there are nothing but middlemen and a new middleman will just swoop in. Well actually but you know
a company like Amazon and Applenet they are actually trying to lock that market up by actually
having devices that are locked to their services. That's where they're you know that's where they're
going to actually try to prevent people from going to other places and that's where they're trying to
basically build their own monopoly at this point. Yeah it's a it's kind of like a devious kind of
locking. So you buy an Android tablet and then you start buying device you start buying your
books from the Google Play Store and your magazines and stuff and all of a sudden you don't want
anything else. The next next tablet you buy it's going to be you know it's going to be another
Google tablet because as soon as you turn it on it's going to have all your books all your music
and I'm going to say I'll get you. And they don't have SD cards like the new Nexus 7 doesn't even
have an SD card so if you just wanted to swap out your your ADA it's not as easy as uh sans
equip. Although in fairness to Google now and we've been always been slagging them about there is
at least they have the philosophy of the data liberation within the organization so I think
they're probably less evil than most. Yeah I don't see what are the vice manufacturers
justification for not having a micro SD slot like if a if a $30 sales it can happen so why would
a $200 tablet not have it. I actually know the answer to this the um the design team for Android
said that they didn't want to have separate logical partitions in the device because they
thought it was ugly and they didn't want to use fat 32 basically. It's it's less of a
anti competitive reason or you know less of a I don't want you to be able to use expandable
memory and more of a we really just want it to be simple and which I actually believe them
in this case I didn't believe them until I heard some of the engineers talking about it at Google
but I do believe them now. I can understand no fat 32 but at the very least if you just put it
in and say hey this needs to be uh converted to work on Android and just reformats at butter
FS or F2 FS and uh then it just works on any of those compatible devices I would still be okay with
that. Is anyone making a purchase decision on the basis of whether or not there's an SD card slot?
Yes I am absolutely well enough people do that the market will produce it I believe
I decided to go I decided to go for the Nexus 7 despite the fact that it didn't have a SD slot
yeah I'm with you Tony I didn't even enter into my mind that have you know a memory card slot at all
it was yeah just didn't figure. Given the value of the hardware anyway it was a it was a no
grain really. Anybody looking at the free and open source software on smartphones for instance?
Not smartphones but the tablet space I was eyeing the Archos was at G9 and I heard you could
get plasma active on that and Merlinx on there. I'm thinking about getting the Ubuntu tablet in
45 hours 29 minutes and 26 seconds. What happens if it's a phone? Maybe right. There was um I was
just reading about uh with um with Android and the uh what's the name of that the open source version
that that's being produced. Replicant? Replicant was one but yeah. Replicant version.
But there's also now a uh a store that actually will only put out um stuff as GPL.
Afterroid? Yeah afterroid that was the one I was thinking of yeah so I was thinking about
actually switching over to that the only the only problem I've got is I've got one program that
I actually have to have on my phone that I wouldn't be able to get through afterroid.
It's limited and um it even didn't have um VLC whereas VLC was in the Google Play Store but
oddly enough that VLC was locked down to a particular region so you couldn't even download it in
the US. Yeah I looked I don't use VLC on my phone and but all the major apps that I looked at
for my phone and my tablet that I actually do use were actually in the eftroid market so I thought
well this is perfect I can just move right over to it. I'm sorry can the carrier connection
stuff be open source I don't think there's anything like that is there? I don't think there's
an open GSM stack yet or um or radio stacks for that matter I think that's the one thing that
is really fully down closed. Yeah it looks like the top is the Mer project is that pretty much
acknowledged everywhere the Mer project is probably the the forefront right now.
That's the Mer project. Oh that's Mer. Mer. Mer. Mer. Mer. Mer. Mer. I don't know where you're
getting the heck at the end. Because that's how you say it. No it's not it's a Mer. It's like the
sea in France. It's not the Mer. Mer. Mer. Mer is not too much like Mer. Mer. Mer. As in
I mean the the cool thing about Mer is that it's uh they're going to be the default
base distro for many different UIs. It's uh going to be the base for the selfish OS Jala
and it's the base for the arm ports of plasma active and uh I think even some other projects are
using it. Has Nokia been completely scared out of it by Microsoft? They were working on it and then
they just like did a 360. Yeah I know everybody speculates it but Microsoft uh kind of put the
but uh I think there are still Jala is really working on that now and the new people are taking
the reins. I'm reluctant to believe that I mean we've we've been following that that strand of
hope for so many different iterations now. The thing Jala actually has some decent contracts at
least in Asia. They're going to be selling in China and like one of the biggest retail stores for
the mobiles. So they're in a very good position right now. So as long as the there's some commercial
interest and the device is being sold by at least someone there's at least someone's going to
maintain the the base stack. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see it. It's just we've yeah been
been waiting quite a while for it. I just wish our brothers and sisters in Iran. Happy new year.
That was five minutes ago. Happy new year. Happy new year. Happy new year. They need it.
So it's I've got a whole bunch of really smart people here. I'm going to ask for a little bit of
where. Where are they? Why aren't they talking? Who the fuck are you talking about? Sorry. I was
thinking of the IRC channel. What was all right. So my I had an old music player. It was like a
60 gigabyte hard drive thing and it died. And I'm looking to replace it with something that is
equal or larger capacity. But not exactly sure where to go on that. Most of what I've seen is
tends to be smaller capacity. And I suppose that has a place in the world. But I have a large
music collection to carry around. I think there's I would recommend the the Cohen X7.
I think there's a version of the fuse that might use a hard drive. I'm not sure. I have to check
that out. I think there still might be some hard drive based devices that you might be able to use.
They're definitely getting harder to find though. I was looking for one of as a Christmas gift for
someone a while back a little while ago. And I could not find one. They all seem to be going to SD
card now. Yeah, the SD card is it kind of stalled at the 32 gigabytes because that's the maximum
for a fat. And there's not a lot of them using the 64 gigabyte cards because that uses some
proprietary Microsoft format. Or it could use some open source Linux format and they could just
use that. But I guess they don't want to do that. Well, I know Rockbox only supports a fat,
that way. Be easy enough to fix probably. But yeah, I mean, I get what you're saying. It makes
sense. I was one I was actually wondering why everything seemed to be yeah, 32 gig and that
totally makes sense. The Cohen X7 is a 160 gig hard drive bass player. Yeah, and I highly recommend
the Cohen devices. The sound is phenomenal. Even if the interface isn't as good as you might
want to be. I have a J3 and I have never been more happy with an audio device in my life. It
plays flack at the highest quality I've ever heard. Cool. I might come back. Amazon says Cohen X7
is not available yet, but I'll keep my eye on it. Oh, maybe this is weird. It should be available
already. They might like how they might be out of stock or something, but it was released a while
ago. Okay. Can somebody check the hacker public radio me and web page please for me?
Yep, it's there again. Yeah, I've got it. Okay, thanks. Could be my connection. Yep, it's good.
Yep, working here. That Cohen X7. Cohen X7? Yeah, the Cohen X7 here in the UK is coming up as 120 gig
and it's 200 quid. That's a lot. It's about $300 roughly. Yeah, but then it doesn't always translate
because the Google Nexus 7, I believe, was $199, but then it was $199 pounds as well. So I don't
know. Not quite sure the always translates directly across the pond. So to speak. Well, tablet
wise, I think you can get an Archos G9 that has 250 gigabyte hard drive in it.
Hey, Ken, as it's already been mentioned, the that counter that's going on the HPR radio main page
is chopped off on the right. You can scroll. Yeah, it doesn't look chopped off for me.
What pros are I? Yeah, it's Firefox 1701 or whatever. I've kept out for me too, but it's just a little bit.
It's just a seconds or slightly off. Is the word is SCCS on the page because it would be done
further right than the seconds that are counting? Yeah, the letters SEC should appear on the right.
Yeah, no, they're they're gone and I'm seeing only half of the two digits only seeing the first
and a little bit of the second digit. That's so weird. It's so small on my screen. Like, what
what are you using? What resolution or are you going to tablet or something? What do you see?
No, this is a Ubuntu 1004 LTS. Weird. I've got the same. It's cut off on the settings.
Okay, well, a bigger fish to fry right at this moment. Stream script is broken again.
It's a very large font and bowl and so it must be the font that's selecting or something.
All right, everyone take a screenshot and post it on UnixPorn.com. That was my marketing attempt.
UnixPorn.com. Are you related to the subreddit UnixPorn?
No, but they cited me. They like they said they they did link to my my page because my page
came first or my site came first. Is that your site UnixPorn.com? UnixPorn.com is a site that I run.
That's awesome. Thank you. I do enjoy UnixPorn. This site contains explicit hot x11 rated
desktop action. I'm going to be stepping out so I'll see you later for now.
Cool. See you later. Hey, I've got a question. Am I the only person that's too cheap to pay like
$200 for a set of headphones? I mean, come on now. I don't think that headphones
have advanced that much. Well, we have to pay $200 for a set of headphones.
You've never had Sennheiser's apparently. Yeah, I was going to say if you get a pair of Sennheiser's
or other studio type of quality headphones, totally worth it. It's some beats. It's some beats.
No, I'm still using a freebie set. I got a free free cycle. Did they come with AdiDay wax?
Not quite. Hey, Verbal, you're by no means the only guy who ain't paying that. I buy $12
for headphones and I'm fine with them. I had to pay that money for a set of Sennheiser's for
Philip because I hoved his last pair up. She did as well. You mean to say you don't get
filled to do Levering? Absolutely not. He doesn't know what whoever is.
No, we've got a Dyson. I do the Dysoning. No, you don't. You get Emma to do it.
Yeah, this is true. Same difference as long as it gets done. That's true.
So if he don't know what the Hoover is, you could have done anything to those headphones and
just say you're Hoover. I mean, he wouldn't know. Oh, felt really bad. I hoved the wire up
and completely destroyed them. I nearly cried. So tell him to get out his soldering iron and fix
the wire. He doesn't do DIY. He doesn't solder. What kind of geek did you marry?
One that doesn't solder. Soft, software geek. I need to get into that hardware. I really do.
Come down to work and work and you can have a practice.
We're having Tony and June. Soldering two wires together is hardly hardware hacking. I'm sorry.
Yeah, but you say that's for people who have never done it before. I believe there's a great
HPR episode on soldering. Ruth, Mr. X did it very good, actually. Yeah, it's one of the classics.
Phil, you could even get Mr. Pounder to buy you a pound soldering iron from the local pound shop.
But oh, this is Beth. They soon. That's a good idea.
I was having my colleague, not Clashan. He did an episode on the ice skating, if you'll remember.
Hand on the Raspberry Pi. He gone through to get a soldering station and there's
temperature controlled ones available for under 20, 20 euros, around 30 dollars or so.
Wow, what was the brand? I'm thinking of what I've asked him to do is put together a
like a shopping list for under 50 bucks. Here's what you need to get started. A cheap old
LTPO soldering iron, the suckers, the cleaning kit, the few resistors, capacitors, LEDs,
that sort of stuff that you need. We're ever posted. HP, what was it? We're
posted on Clotus site. That's exactly what my timer looks like. Yeah, that's what mine is.
I just took the screenshot from here and posted it. Yep, exactly the same. Processing.
Yep, that's what mine looks like too. Cranky. Strange, captain. Mine looks like that in Chrome,
but not in Firefox. I can't open it. It doesn't look like that at all.
It's because I have one of the fancy widescreen monitors on my laptop because this does not look
at all like something I could achieve on my monitor. Is the font smaller for those that see it
correctly? No, it looks the same to me except it's just it doesn't. It looks like everything's
narrower. I mean, like the divs are narrower. And I've just scrunched it over a little bit and it,
yeah, it's just put scroll bar and this is on Chrome on Linux. Are you all rolling Linux?
Yeah, what's Linux? Anybody want to wait for people listening? HP is not a Linux only show.
It's just we're open to take hacks from any operating system at all. BST, Windows, Mac,
whatever, but it just happens that hackers tend to use Linux a lot.
And anyone want to wager its an extension? Yes, AIX as well.
If someone can find me a better account on time or I'll just replace that.
How about just chop off the word sec and leave it at that?
No, I have no control over it. It's just one of these free JavaScript jubbies that I got
this morning didn't have time or the energy to go messing with when we didn't have any streaming
going. So why are we talking about it? Because we're what there's now everything is running
touching wood or touching something that possibly was what hold on. And now we have the opportunity
to fix it. There's a joke in this somewhere isn't there? I was going to say lie to you, Ken,
drag us down. Well, no, something along the lines of having these sort of software developers
in a HP on New Year's Eve episode. Does it take to fix a countdown on the website?
I don't know. Many cell phone numbers in the heck of public radio, New Year's Eve party listening
to this thing. Does it take to solve a countdown timer? None of you, you can't be asked.
I'm just glad you didn't ask how many software HPR hackers developers touch wood.
Oh, no. Oh, touch my own wood. I won't talk about touching wood. Why is verbal not talking?
That doesn't seem synchronous to his name, doesn't he? He doesn't like to talk about touching
wood. He wants us to move on. Move along now. Move along. Good man, verbal.
Verbal this year was monumental in the fact that you released two shows within 12 months of each
other. You know what? That that that's just wrong. You know, you're not supposed to bring that
fact up because we were looking at the Linux for on-camp. We Dave Morrison, I too haven't been talking
to today. Dave, we worked in this portal script to go through what seems to be like a very quick
thing. I wanted to gather a list of all current podcasts, you know, so that we could put them on a
list, hand out to people, you know, and say, oh, you're interested in podcasting. You can come
in record for HPR, but it just happens that you're one you had just released the show, so you're
really high up in that list and people are going, oh, there's a podcast I've never heard of before.
You know, actually, I want to post the latest one. I can post it right now, but Mrs. Verbal,
she has to do the quality control checks and everything to make sure everything's okay.
So this will be like my third one in like two months. I think it is. Oh my God.
I fixed the clock. Well, I fixed it for me. How did you do that?
Well, I just opened up a fire bug and changed the font size from 20 points to 16. Now,
if it's on fine, it's going to say he could obviously probably did control minus.
I actually tried that. It didn't work for me. Yeah, I tried the same thing. I tried to change the
scale size and it didn't do a thing. Possibly send you the CSS snippet and you can paste it in
if you want, can see if it helps. Now, I wanted to JavaScript thing from some other website, so
if someone else got a counter, it'll help. Yeah, but if you paste the CSS in below or locally,
it should override it, maybe. It's funny. I'm looking at it. I'm looking at it in Firefox,
17 and change also and it looks fine for me and I can't get it to mess up.
Yeah, same here. It's really strange. Now, we're the only two in Slackware, I think.
Looks fine and chrome here or a Slackware derivative in my case.
I'm on Slackware and it looks okay for me. It looks okay for you, Verbal.
Yes, it does. Slackware for the win. Not to say that Glad to's distro is better than yours.
Right, never, never. I'm on Kubuntu. I feel so left out. Okay, try it now.
That seems to have fixed it here. It looks great here. How's the man? Yeah, I fixed it here.
It would have been you if you hadn't just peaked out your mic, Ken.
Who's the man? You're the man, Ken. I think it's time for a little song.
So we finally solved the riddle. It takes one HPR member to solve that.
No, no, there was two. That was going on and I'll fix it and Ken just implemented it.
Oh, okay. No, Ken did it off his own back. He didn't want my fix.
He snubbed me publicly. No, I just changed the width to 600.
Folks, it's time to stop and start the streams again.
And welcome back to cooking today. Today we're going to be taking a look at my latest cookery
invention, which is olive oil. And olive oil is a dough-based doughnutty texture that is
traditional tea in the Netherlands around about this time of year.
It's made with a combination of milk, flour, eggs, sugar, and a lot of fat.
Just wait for a moment while we go to our live kitchen camp.
Oh, sorry, folks. Wrong stream.
Hey, Ken, if we're doing, if we cook JB Oliver.
Yeah, if we're doing a cooking segment, Riddlebox wants to come on and teach us how to make
ramen noodles. Oh, yes, go for it. Over water, right?
Yeah, yeah, the fancy kind. I'm going to make some coffee because I'm very tired.
I'm tuning into the other stream, which was the 60-minute, 60-second delay, which is why I'll be
coming back in with my opinion 60 seconds later than everybody else.
A lot like the 60-minute delay one. That would actually be better because you could actually
come back before you left. I'm going to try on mutant honky magoo. We had to mute you earlier.
Sorry, we didn't get back to you sooner because your mic was keen up automatically and you were
feeding back everything. While you're on the topic of audio, how does this sound? Nobody's
complained. I'm not sure about the stream. Well, actually, no, I do know that the new radio.net
stream sounds great because I've been listening to that when I walk away. I've been monitor
and that. I don't know about the other two, but mumble sounds great. Nobody's really having problems
today. Well, I'm in my audio because this is my debut on mumble.
Oh, you sound great. I've checked the other streams every now and then they sound good too.
Yeah, I switched to even on my mobile phone outside. It's very, very clear.
Well, I thought I'd have quite a bit of echo actually because it's coming in the
directional mic in a wood panel room. No, the echo that people get when like the people in the IRC
are saying they hear an echo, that happens when two people key up at the same time and one of them
is not using headphones if you have like speakers and it's just going back into their mic.
So, you know, people will jump off at that point. Yeah, I mean what was usually called room
boom. Hello, hello. No, you've got a little bit of that, but it's not too bad. It's not
any worse than, you know, anybody else. And the level's okay. Yep. All right, this thing works
pretty good. It's very intuitive. This first time I've really used mumble. Yeah, mumble pretty much
sets the levels on its own. There's not much you can do to override the mumble audio. You can,
you can change your own levels going into mumble, but it pretty much overrides them. So all you can
really do is overmodulate before you get there and sound terrible. But if you turn it, turn your
settings down. Mumble pretty much bumps them back up. Yeah, I've been strictly pushed to
talk because I've got a call in a cough. Second time using mumble properly and this time around
it might change the next district as well. That's good. Yeah, push to talk is definitely the preferred
method for pretty much almost any use you can think of, but especially when there's a lot of
people in the room, because if people start keying up accidentally, you get a lot of that echoing
and people speaking over each other and it's the actual transmitting that can overload the server.
You can have a lot of people on there and it can just keep streaming audio out, but once you get
a lot of streams inbound to the server, that's when it can have problems. And the other problem
would be leaving mumble on all the time, transmitting all the time. You seem to get like time errors,
like things get out of sync just because I think just because everybody's mumble is working on
their own local clock and the murmur server is working on its local clock and the internet
has its local clocks and I think things get out of sync. If you transmit for too long, it seems
to happen between 10 and 30 minutes, depending on what you're doing, but by about 30 minutes,
if you have like a multi-part recording going, you're out of sync.
Interesting. Out of sync so that maybe echo stops working?
No, out of sync. Well, there's two different things. If you keep talking like continuously or
leave your mic open continuously, you can start chopping out. You drop packets. It seems like
that that's one thing, but the other thing is if you would record to a multi-channel recording instead
of a down mix, when you import all those recordings into Audacity, you'll notice that about the 30-second
mark that people seem to be talking over each other, even though they didn't when you were recording it.
And that's what I meant by that. I got you. So it's a lot easier to edit one that's multi-channel
recording. It's a lot easier to edit a multi-channel recording, but you have to be willing to
adjust the the silences. You know, add a little here, take a little there to get people synced up
again. Yeah, I was thinking of echo cancellation. We'd get out of sync. That happens a lot on Skype.
Very possibly, but I'm not sure. I don't know if echo cancellation is done locally or on the server.
If it were done locally on your own machine, it should be pretty good because your machine would
know what's coming out of the speakers and what you know how to mute it. Is echo cancellation
is that even enabled by default? I thought that was not enabled. Well, and normally most of
echo cancellation or noise cancellation really requires two microphones to do, so I don't know
how you'd actually implement that even locally. I'm thinking of the so you don't hear yourself
coming back the stream. You guys don't hear yourself, right? I was kind of said, oh, you don't hear
yourself. Oh, yeah, yeah, you don't hear yourself. Right, that cancellation. That's what actually
screws up on, it used to screw up on Skype all the time. Yeah, the server is I think just smart
enough to know not to send your voice back at you. And when you do hear, you know, that kind of
echo where you're coming back at yourself, it's because someone else has keyed up with us,
a mic near their speakers. I understand that they had to do with telephones. They had to start
feeding it back in because otherwise people would talk way too loud. Yeah, we used to do auto
patching with the old transformer hybrid telephone. And you just cancel out the local loop, yes.
That's why people shout at their cell phones. Exactly. That was one of the biggest things
of cell phone users usage at first, sure. The difference is on a telephone, there's enough
physical separation between the earpiece and the mouthpiece. And, you know, there's typically
it sealed against your ear so you don't hear it, you know, so they don't really need to implement
echo cancellation there. Unless you're using an iPhone from a distance.
That's the only way I'd use an iPhone is from a great distance and accidentally.
I haven't figured out long enough distance for using an iPhone yet.
Well, I'm I'm a state away. So I think that's I think that's far enough.
Oh, I was thinking if one was in Australia, it wouldn't be far enough away from me.
You know, that's actually how they started Australia. They sent all the Apple users there
and that's that's how they colonized it. That's evil. That's the best Australia joke I've heard in
weeks. Unfortunately, we're the Australians when we want them around, you know? Unfortunately,
all their computers are upside down there. You know, I was upset about a half an hour, an hour ago
because where was Corey Doctoro when we needed him? We invited him and he said he wanted to come
if he had if he was free enough. Was that was that supposed to be a pun or not? No, that was
an unintentional pun. I'm sorry. I love Corey Doctoro. He's the best. Yeah, he is the man.
And we went quite again. Well, that's it. Can we just say happy new year to Nairobi three minutes ago?
I think there was a few more as well. We had to read. Yeah, we should read them out really. There was
Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Somalia, Yemen, Ethiopia, Q8, a small region of
Russia, Bahrain, Comoros, South Sudan. I can't spell it. I can't say that one. Digi, booty,
Qatar, Eritrea, Belarus. Oh, my screen's just going to blank screen,
saying one second. What's your booty? So you say that one?
Chibbuti. Yeah, silent D. I'll finish off for him. So Eritrea, Belarus, Mayotte,
Madagascar, Jordan and Sudan. Happy new year to one and all. I have yet to post a show today.
How are we going to do this? How am I going to divide this 24 hour, 26 hour thing up?
You better ask Ken Fallon. He's in charge here.
Yeah. Well, the real Ken Fallon, please step into the room.
Where's the fake one? It was almost as good. And the fake Ken Fallon, sure.
It'll be grand. Potatoes. I was just cutting automatically into two hour blocks.
Three hours. You can make it three hours every eight hours. Are four? Should we do four
hours? Three hours would make it eight and probably nine shows. Yeah, that'll be more than two days,
two weeks. Can people live with that? It would be two weeks if we skipped the syndicated Thursdays
for just these two dedicated weeks. We don't have syndicated Thursdays anymore,
such. So if people want to submit a syndicated Thursday, what was the syndicated show,
what they can do is just submit it themselves as a regular show and we'll add it to the queue.
But what we would appreciate you doing is what 5150 did on his latest one is, you know,
explain what it is, why you think it's important for people to be aware of what it is,
and where provide links to where people can get more stuff. I think that would be more useful,
kind of allow us to continue the syndicated Thursday, but have more personalized feel to
us. What do you reckon? I like the sound of that. Sounds good to me. About the length of the podcast,
I'm reminded of the story of Fala who was asked if he wanted his pizza cut into six or eight slices,
and he said, better make it six. I don't think I could eat eight. I remember that joke. I use that
on my wife all the time. I think it was Yogi Barra, but I'm not sure. Oh, I heard it in a bad joke
book when I was I said, you know, when the the thing would come around to the school and they'd
unload shelves and shelves of books on wheels and you go in and buy books there, I always buy joke
books. The Scholastic Book Fair. What is it? The Scholastic Book Fair. Yeah, that's the one's
Scholastic Book Fair. Yep. Well, if you were to just cut it up into two hour blocks and that's
all that ran for the next two and a half weeks, wouldn't bother me particularly. Yeah, thanks up.
I don't see on the other way. Let's do it three hours. It seems reasonable on then because it's
going to be a before and after. If you cut it into 24 hour blocks, Peter 64 will be your best friend
forever. Yes. He just loves that. All flack all the time. Speaking of the missing Australians.
Yeah, they should be coming back shortly. Hey, someone was mentioning about a list of podcasts.
Who is that? And I just want to take a look at that because I just want to say, thank you very
much. Yeah, it is the links link dot net that Linux link dot net and it's run by Dan Washco
of the Linux link tech show fame are also here. The guy who does Linux in the shell and because we're
dropping syndicated Thursday, what I thought would be a nice way to kind of give back to the
community would be if we played those podcasts that we would ordinarily be syndicating on syndicated
Thursday on a live stream on the Hacker Public Radio website. So the script that I have run
downloads those with mesh powder and downloads the latest episodes for the last month and just
plays them one after the other and obviously because HPR is in there, the HPR recent shows will
get added as well, along with CC hits, along with any other shows that get released in that period.
So it's a way to promote other podcasts as well just on the website.
Well, at least you won't have to worry where your content comes from for a while.
Yeah, but that wouldn't be necessarily in there. That won't be in the main feed that will be
that would be in the on a live stream on the website. Do any of you listen tune into live streams
and places? Yeah. Yeah, rat hole radio mainly or the bug cast? The bug cast.
And Luke said I was occasionally if we get jammed. You PC? Oh, yeah, you PC.
We don't watch telly anymore. I would probably watch Twit Live if I was on the same time zone maybe
or hang on a sec, that don't work. Twit, you trader. Well, I don't mind a bit of Twit, I think it's
quite good. We love Leo. Did I see Dave Morris come in there? There right now there is a video that
you might want to watch. It's the latest issue of security now. And it's Steve Gibson going
into at a very detailed level how hard drives work was recorded in 1990. Worked past tense.
They still work that way now. The solid stage ones don't. They're not hard drives.
Well, it's okay. It's still a solid drive. It's a hard drive. It's not a disc drive,
but it's still a hard drive. But anyway, it was a really good video. So if you go to the website,
you can check it out. Thanks mate. Omar, just do that. Got a link for that. Post it into the
mumble chat. That way I can save it. I'll get it for you in a second. Thank you, don't gear.
I'm sure you appreciate it. If you could paste the sort of topic links into the mumble chat,
I can just do a select all copy and paste and push that into the show notes.
So back to the, sorry, I could go back to this up on two things, but I'm getting obsessed by it now.
I've been reading comments from on Google plus. The original post was by
the Oh my God, Ubuntu people. An Alan Pope wrote on 90% certain that the announcement
will be exciting for me, smiley. Now, an I think Alan works on, I'm pretty sure he's the manager
of the Ubuntu TV project. So I might be reading too much into that, but I think that's a bit of a clue.
Alan, I think was just like a community member and he does the Ubuntu UK podcast and he started
out whatever, and he works for clinical now. Yeah, so, but with that announcement, I think it's
well done what they wanted with you because they want you to like think about it and really think
about what's going to happen. Why is it? I'm totally into it. I hold my hands up, they've
you know, they've got me hooked line and stinker, but I just, I suppose it's because there's not a lot
of else going on and I like a good countdown and the HPR countdown is finished now, pretty much.
I can put another countdown off if you want. Yeah, go on it. It seems like it would be a TV
related thing because I mean, that's kind of what they've been working on. I mean, I haven't really
heard anything about a phone or it. I mean, so much, but TV, they didn't they debut a sort of a
test TV at one of the technical shows this past year? Yeah, yeah, the TV Ubuntu TV they had
preview before asked for phones. I mean, that was announced recently. Mark Chattelworth
on his blog that 2013 would be the year of Ubuntu mobile. So, so yeah, that's phone. So,
actually, maybe it's that deal for that announcement saying that, but probably not. It's
pretty tabless something like that. And it's got the word touching it. How would that be
related to TV? Hey, you know what? I just thought of something. Slightly little finger.
What if all they did was release the phone, but the phone had a DLNA server on it. So,
like everything you did on your phone was streamed out to your TV. They wouldn't even need a set
top box then. That's true. Because only the content that they need to support the encrypted DRM
thingy parts of DLNA, but that would require you to sign into contracts that would be
contrary to the free software ideals that Ubuntu stands for and holds dear.
TV. What if the announcement is Ubuntu TV and Netflix and love film and I don't know any other
you name it streaming service. That's got crackle dream. Well, yeah, I mean, you can't dream,
but it's nice to dream in it. Okay, here's an interesting topic. Everybody, what would the
ideal product be that Ubuntu is announcing? If you were Mark Shertler, what would you be
announcing next in one of our 45 hours time? That Nvidia's drivers don't suck anymore.
Yeah, I'd go with that. I mean, I don't need any more gadgets. Let's convince Linus that
the Nvidia drivers don't suck anymore. Yeah, that should be your number one priority.
I think it would be a tablet that integrates with your TV. You see them on Hollywood films,
have those big control devices that have buttons on for closing your curtains and turning the
cat along and stocking your fridge and making your cup of tea. Be one of those. That's what I'd
want. That's Peter 64's house. I think it should be a kitchen computer that stores all your recipes.
I think it should be he announces that cats are now Ubuntu compatible and you can install Ubuntu
on your cat. Love that. Why would I wipe out my cats install a slackware for Ubuntu? You're right,
I'm wrong. You should go with slackware. No, I already did. Slackware's been on my cat for like
five years. I know, but I mean, I'm saying you should maintain that pattern. You've been okay.
Well, what do you think? I refer to the question. What do you think? I think it's going to be a
tablet or phone that got some manufacturer to pre-install it on a device and that's fine, but
they're going to have to be a pretty big manufacturer. What I'd like to see from you is where is
where is the money going to come from? Value added services such as increased storage on your
Ubuntu one account. And where's the money for the device manufacturer coming from?
Maybe they'll take a hit on the device in order to increase the sales.
No, he's rich, but Shuttlebird doesn't have Google's money in order to do that.
But what if the manufacturer was promised to cut in the sales of services?
The manufacturer would need to be pretty sure that they're going to sell lots and lots and lots and lots.
Yeah, I know. I think that was a bit of a stretch that one.
Show me the money, folks. Show me the money.
Have you seen the, if you go to the, oh, because I've been looking at the canonical website now
and the shop and stuff. I don't know. I was just thought I'd have a bit of an Ubuntu moment.
The, I've got a nifty looking speaker, a boom, boom, bare-o speaker. The works with your phone.
That looks pretty sweet. I think, I think the, I saw a lot, I was looking at that,
the other night actually just to see what policy had again. I think the laptop keyboard would,
the waterproof laptop keyboard would be kind of good, but it was like the,
they need a Chinese layout left or whatever the other throughout the stock.
They have some good products in there, so in general, really. Not just that.
If I was Mark Shuttleworth and I wanted to launch a product that absolutely everyone would be
forced to buy, it would be a TV that was over 1080p resolution. So it would have, Ubuntu
baked in on it, but it would be something a little bit over 1080p, so everyone would buy it.
If it was a little bit cheaper than you would expect. So if he somehow got like Samsung in bed with
him to, to get Ubuntu running on their stuff, that would be fantastic. And he could force everyone
to buy it by making it a little bit better product than normal. Wow, that's a brilliant idea.
You should be in marketing. Yeah, some some do with all their contracts that they currently have
with all the MSOs and cable operators and things to shoot them in the back.
Yes, that's why this is a fantasy. And this is why if I was Mark Shuttleworth, that's what I would want.
But yeah, I'm not in marketing, because I'm not, I'm not a horrible person.
What if it was a TV that worked with Exchange? Would you be happy, Ke?
No, because I want free software ever. Maybe he's just going to want to be happy.
Just no pleasing some people.
Maybe he's going to announce they're moving the buttons over to the right.
Shotcara. We have the fake Ken Fallon and this turned up on the IRC channel offering me
I'm a savage for baking and cabbage.
Maybe it's a touch game, but more seriously, um, because you bought Exchange up again,
I just wanted to briefly say because I didn't get to say earlier that well, yeah, for business,
the exchange is important. That's why Linux possibly doesn't really hit off on the reasons.
But for the home users or personal users, consumers, it's well apparently it's games where a lot of people
spend steam and all that coming to Linux being seen and such a good thing.
I don't know about that. I mean, people will use at home what they use and work and the reason
to do that is because they want to make sure that they're employable in their current and
their next employment position. So if everybody was using Mac and work, you'd find everybody
using Mac at home. And I'm not sure that steam come to Linux for free solver is a very good thing either.
Yeah, steam coming to Linux is sort of good for the to get it out there more, the mainstream,
for free software. It's not, you know, it's not open source, it's not free software, but, um,
well, I was like, oh, and yeah, people want Photoshop, possibly for Linux too. And also,
there is that idea that people generally use what they're using at school or college or
or university or, or, um, in business. But I mean, I would default Firefox, for example, you know,
but a really good open source system. It's still a Firefox, you know, hit, you know, every year,
since 2004, it's getting a lot of market share. More recently, we've got Chrome as well,
Poly as a result of Firefox or some extent. But that's a good system. And I think that probably
started off getting really popular with home users, not in business. And then some businesses are
using as well now, but even now, I think it's mainly home users using it. That's, that's a thing
example of people, something becoming popular because of the home users and first and not business.
Yeah, okay, for example. Yeah, I mean, can you, Ken, is that actually your experience that people
use what they use at work at home? I mean, that that certainly isn't my experience. Yeah,
that's absolutely. Yeah, man, not even that they just use it. Most people just steal what they
got at work and bring it home. Well, and actually some companies for quite a while actually had
arrangements where people could actually get licenses of products for home use so they could
actually do work at home. It was, and after it was a part of Microsoft's original licensing,
back when they were fighting Novel on the desktop, sorry, fighting Novel and fighting IBM.
The licensing was such that if you had Windows and Office in your work, you could give it out
to employees and they could load it on two of their home desktop PCs. This was part of the license.
And that's where the tradition of going to your IT department and getting a copy of the software
came from. Wow, I had no idea. No wonder Microsoft got in her so solidly.
I think I used that to get open office into a school. This was actually before open office,
it was a star office at the time. And we were able to put show them that they could not only
install it at the school, but they could give all of the students a copy to take home.
So it's important. It's a two way, it's a two way street. And in one instance,
here's something becomes really popular at home, like the iPad or mobile phones, bring your own
device. Then that will come into businesses. I mean, there is no, I said it before about the
exchange round, but there is no security officer that sits down and thinks, oh, let's have everybody
bring all these mobile devices into our business. That's going to be a really secure thing that we
want to manage. No IT department is going to go, oh, like, oh, lovely. All these phones carrying our
data around are more weird devices and things that we need to support. It's never worked that way.
It's always been people use whatever it is that people are passionate about or interested in
technology that's useful. That comes in and then everything kind of adjusts to that. Ken,
my system's in where I work is so locked down. So I can't even take my mobile phone into
work and connect to USB to charge it. Yeah, I know there are work in places where they would
drive a needle through your camera phone because they couldn't get phones without cameras. So
you weren't allowed to take photos and you were constantly monitored and stuff. So,
yes, it's not, yeah, it's not even taking photos, but like I say, to even just put in a device
to USB to say just to draw power whilst I'm using the computer for a legitimate, but just in case
I might be downloading something or uploading something, and it's so archaic really.
Yeah, but on the other hand, from a security point of view, but now most drop in my arguing the
point for a moment here, you work in the vast majority of businesses are not like that. The vast
majority of businesses see computers as just a toolbox. So, if you go down to Joe Shmoel down
the road who's got a cement mixing factory taking something at random and they've got a
IT department and they've got computers and the only reason they've got computers is the same
reason they've got a cement mixer out the back. It's just to do business. They really don't care
what they're running. You, on the other hand, are working in an organization that has a long
history of having... How regularly? Well, a long history of having records been publicly leaked
out on the newspapers. So, now things have been implemented to prevent you doing that. But,
for the vast majority of businesses operating in the UK and in Ireland and definitely in the Netherlands,
it's bringing your own devices fine. And what they're happy with is this
Microsoft Exchange Delete device remotely type feature that you get an Android and you get on the
iPhone. But, my department are definitely wanting to move with the digital age. And, of course,
you know, the way that we're changing how we use IT now, especially with, like, say, Wi-Fi zones
with tablets and that, you know, how long before desktop for me is gone, how are we then going to
conduct our business? Well, that's a job for the security department, essentially, because they're
working on the... Yeah, it comes down to borderless networks. But it's so frustrating how far behind
technology we are. You know, I come home to get my geek fix. I don't go to work to do it.
And you're not allowed to have your own mobile device operating independently, like,
checked and used, checked the weather on your laptop and such. Now, because what happens,
what I've seen happen is in companies that lock on, say, in a typical engineer company where
security isn't... your security is a priority, but it's not the main point of what the business
is selling. They're shipping a product. You will see engineers come in and if they're not allowed
to use their laptop, the company laptop, they'll bring their own laptop, connect it over their
own ethernet connection or over their own cellular connection. And, you know, happily use that for
their geeking out and then use the company desktop to connect to get their email. I can't even
bring my phone children to work because it hasn't been pat tested. Okay, well, you work for a government
organization. So, can we get a hands up what the security policies is in other people's work?
Um, mine's... I'm a systems engineer at a company in America and it's pretty... it's pretty
free. I can do pretty much anything that I want to do aside from maybe like torrenting at work.
We can bring in whatever devices we want. We can pretty much anything that is reasonable we can do.
There's some sort of monitoring, obviously, from our developer laptops, but other than that,
it's pretty much free. I work at a nonprofit multimedia production facility and I make up all the
rules so we can torrent. I monitor the network. It's totally free. And my work is that they actually
have a lot of stuff basically blocked at a firewall as far as like internet usage and that goes.
It's like not going to get to YouTube or something like that, but other than that, I can pretty much
use what I want to. And if I want to bring in... well, I take my phone in and I can run stuff off
my phone through the digital connection. And if I want to, I can tell you that to my laptop and use
it, but other than that, in network wise, I'm pretty much restricted to what they've got available.
What kind of job is it, Tone Chaser, roughly? I work... I'm basically an engineer slash admin on IT
systems for a large transportation company. I'll say that much.
I'm working in state government state of Michigan here in the United States and I'm not allowed to
connect my Android phone to the exchange server, which I would actually like to do, but because it's
mine and it's not owned by the state, they won't let me do that. But I am allowed to connect a USB
thumb drive to my computer. So I'm not quite sure what that means. Yeah, similar. I work for a very
small company, government contracts, but that really doesn't, isn't what does it? I think it's
lack of knowledge by the higher ups. They just don't want to see certain things and thumb drives
as one of them. So as long as they're not looking at what we have to. Security is pretty loose
that our place of should probably shouldn't say that publicly. People seem to be able to
install their documents on USB drives and just plug them in whenever they want, but
it's pretty easy that way. Regarding devices, people just seem to walk around with their iPhones
and stuff. So I don't think they're using the GSM networks and stuff. They're not plugged into
the company Wi-Fi or anything, but... I thought about something else. It's one of the funnier
things at my office is they actually restrict rights on windows as far as like where you can
write on your drives and stuff. So now it's not really possible to install other software that you
need. For example, if I try to do a full install of SIGWIN, it will fail because it can't write to
the drive where it needs to. So I actually have to kind of hack around that to actually get a copy
of SIGWIN running. Now is that just to keep people from writing important data to their local drive
all the time because that's what the three Windows computers here that we do have.
That's what they do. They'll keep telling them write everything to your network drive,
don't do it to your C drive or whatever. They keep doing it to the C drive. Is that why they do it?
It's because they don't want you installing other software because they're restricting the
program's directory. Yeah, they're restricting pretty much everything except for like your
documents folder. I have another interesting thing to add. There are separate domains like
Windows domains for the engineers and the business people where I work and we are absolutely not
allowed to have anything leak over into what we call the corporate domain which is the business
side. So the developers can do basically whatever they want in their domain but we cannot do anything
in the corporate domain. Is that done by groups and so forth on like a Windows server?
Yes, but the reason they gave us for this is that they don't want any of the business people to
have any real information. So none of the data can leak over in terms of corporate SP and
Azure, that sort of thing. So the business people don't get access to any data but the engineers
get access to all the data but they just don't share it with anyone. That almost sounds
delbert-esque but not quite. It's actually very smart that they do that because you can trust
the people in the engineering side but you can't trust any of the business people because they
wouldn't know how to keep things secure. Yeah, and why would the business people need to know
anything that the developers were dealing with anyway? I mean, isn't that just so out of their
realm that it just would be kind of frivolous to have that information available to them?
No, because the business people do do purchasing and sort of stuff since this is a health care
company and sometimes they have to acquire hardware and that sort of thing. I just thought that
was a really unusual thing when I started there. I had never seen any sort of like demilitarized
zone in that sort of fashion created and I think that's sort of interesting.
Well, actually, it's not completely unusual. I've seen in other companies that have affected
even in the one I'm at now where a lot of times the development work actually gets done in labs
and in those labs they will have their own domains and those domains really don't have access to
the enterprise domain. So a lot of times there is that kind of separation there.
When I was doing 19 management, we also operated the engineers completely separate. They had their
own network and we assisted them by backing up with stuff and if they had any issues but it was
a two way thing. They wanted to run their own mail service those fine but they had to integrate
with ours. I'm wondering if this stuff starts to become almost a dead issue if like with the
telephones that were connected to the internet all the time anyway and we don't have to go through
the company network. Not to change the subject but quick question from the IRC. Does anybody have a
good suggestion for an Android app to listen to the stream? Yeah, just go to the default web browser
and paste in one of the URLs. It works fine. Okay, web browser. Yep, web browser paste in the URL.
I've been using the MP3 just so you might want to try that. So does anyone think that this becomes
a dead issue? Yeah, I think you're right. I mean in our work they provide a Wi-Fi network separate
from the other network for people's devices just to get online. It's just a courtesy I think certain
things are blocked but it's more you know it's like an internet cafe around the entire building
and you still need to use your VPN to get into the internal network. So it's the philosophy of
the borderless network because it's just common a lot faster than people of thoughts. You know,
you can't rely on a firewall anymore. You need to secure each machine individually.
It really is completely VPN based to where I work and they also have the guest access like that
but I don't think it's necessarily a dead issue because it's obviously still heavily segmented
with the borderless network when you have to log in to get any sort of internal corporate materials
or any internal development materials or you know just being able to already pee to a server.
Yeah, I think there's still going to be some separation there. I mean especially for things where you
know you have engineering groups that are doing development and that on internal things,
they're probably still going to keep those separated because they don't want that stuff leaking out
some way. Yeah, but what if I have a phone or a tablet. I've got a VPN connection to my home
computer and I can do anything I want through that and it uses little or no bandwidths.
I'm not from a security point of view that's fine. You're doing your own thing but
as long as you're not at the same time funneling using another VPN to go inside into the corporate
network and funneling stuff out through that other VPN to your home network.
Well and a lot of times you still can't access like these engineering areas. They're on a separate
domain. You can't access those from your business desktop. You actually have to be on site to
actually use those. They physically separate them. We're similar like that in engineering but our
response in a real small company is you don't join the domain otherwise you'll get those policies
forced on you and you can't run certain things or the AV of choice is shoved down your throat
in absolutely incompatible with real-time data taking. So they're just kind of proven my point
is the engineering departments will always have a reason not to do whatever it is that the IT
department wants to do because for 90% of the people a normal company controlled desktop is fine
but when you get to engineers or when you get to there will always be exceptions for people who
want and need their own machines running their own thing separate from everybody else. Not so much
to that I would say but I mean I think it's it unfortunately it comes down to believe or not
this attitude that companies believe that they have intellectual property and they want to
protect that intellectual property at all costs and unfortunately that means they're going to
physically separate it so they don't lose it. Well unfortunately that's not necessarily a bad
thing surely. I mean what does it and the results are nothing in the free software ethos that
would contradict that you are entitled to run your own free software inside your own business
so unless you don't distribute it correct or not you're entitled to have your own secret sauce
nobody's stopping you from doing that. Correct. Yeah I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong
I'm just saying that it kind of goes counter to the ethos that we seem to embrace here with open
open source and free software. Yeah but I mean shuttle worth is sorry shuttle worth comes out
rather insulting that is in that manner obviously well hopefully obviously but they're generating
buzz right now they're an open source company whether there'd be a free company or not is
another question but they're an open source company and they've got this secret that they're
keeping and they're keeping it behind closed doors and they're going to release us in fairness to
them to the public shortly afterwards so you know there's reasons to keep stuff behind closed doors
is the big secret going to be a release going to be something you can touch. Hold in your hand
and be a release that doesn't happen to April. Tablet I'm going for tablet. And Andrew I have to
support them in episode seven of Christmas. Andrew it has historically been the ultimate
open source but secret sauce for a while you know product so I mean obviously that can exist
and does exist as a concept. Yeah I was thinking something but like that Andrew did as well
didn't really keep stuff secret and impact their code at times too for for a while and release it
or whatever but yeah and and then they do similar with Apple as well they're kind of like
go to use to sort of secret thing where you sort of find out something later on and you wouldn't
really know for a while. But Apple would fall outside of that domain because Apple isn't
open in any fashion. Well yeah obviously but still. Yeah unfortunately they set the model of
success that's driving everybody to do it the same. Yeah for now. Yeah and they're quickly losing
it now the job is gone. Exactly. I mean you only have to look back at them back in my day
I go mad. You only have to look back as like 20 years ago you had Sony was everything in every
device that was ever released looked like Sony it had loads of twiddly knobs on it that you could
adjust everything and now Apple as everybody looks like Apple and all everybody's logo looks like
Apple. So what do you get if you got to stay ahead of people you have to it was my great
grandfather. grandfather says whenever everybody runs you walk slowly in the other direction
and I think that's my greatest disappointment with Ubuntu actually. Yeah I think Ubuntu is just
that shuttle worth has to make a profit zero later. Yes but if you have a vision about something
take it in a direction that nobody else is going don't be following the crowd because you will
always be behind them whatever that if you're following Apple Apple is always going to be ahead of you
you know it will change the iPhone to a different look and feel and all of a sudden all the work
that you've done suddenly changes. Yeah you've never led. Yeah and there's also the idea with both
sort of similar what we're talking about but basically they want to come phones that's fine but
you know it really is about Android and iOS and Marin and you know not even Microsoft with
I mean I'm going to read comments like to say this on articles every now and again I've
ever won the other night probably but basically you say stuff like oh um not even windows can go on
the phone and get really popular and they've got loads of money sort of thing. There's like
loads of comments out there to the articles basically say that so it's kind of like so they kind of
say then they kind of say if they're not even Microsoft can get on the phones properly what the
how can con how can bunty how can conical sort of thing that's basically what the comments say.
I mean you might pull off one you know if you can sell if you can sell a mobile phone in India
and it's popular you you outsell you know they will sell in a day what you will try and sell in a
year in the UK for instance. I think Apple you know they sold themselves on the simplicity and you
know making it easy for the users but and bun two and some companies you know jumped on that bang
wagon but you know in a few years people are going to you know kind of wise up and realized you
know we want to do more than just the one button click to do everything and want to be able to
customize or you know use devices as they want. I heard something interesting in a talk that I
watched from Steve Jobs on YouTube that was from some Apple keynote years ago and he was explaining
how he always thought that the user experience should come first and that he built everything
else around that from the front backwards and I thought that's terrible from an engineering
standpoint but great from a usability standpoint and it's always seemed to me that Apple sort of
been that way because they they are sort of a hollow shell of good usability which is good from a
consumer standpoint I guess if you don't actually need to do any real engineering behind that
when everything is just a graphical front end sort of but it falls short in so many levels
after that and that's why they're not going to last unfortunately for them.
As Steve Jobs it was the ultimate of perfectionism that lack of that is probably going to kill
him I think. Yeah okay some points the map is fiasco and people actually died from that.
Now I was going to say that I disagree I don't think people want to
customize and personalize their devices too much I mean you let them change their wallpaper
you give them a bunch of ringtones they can choose from and a bunch more that they can buy
and some apps that they can pay for and they're pretty much happy I mean I honestly think that
you know we're the the minority in this that we want to customize things and change settings
and stuff I mean that's why the it just works logo works for them because this isn't just work
it uh you know I don't think any of us would say about their devices that they just work I think
what we can say about them is that they work the way they are and you can't change them and if you
try then they stop working you know. Yeah but okay what you're forgetting is that people
want to do what's cool there was back again back in the day of the Sony thing there was
they were being sold the idea that you can have it just the way you want it with all the knobs and
all the tweaks and all the dials you can get a just sounding perfect for your room because that
was the marketing vision the marketing dream that they were being sold Apple is absolutely brilliant
at selling this dream that this pixie dust that they sell well maybe we don't have to have a
situation where everyone wants the same thing you know I like the fact that there's choice in
variety you know if Linux never conquers 100% of the desktop market does that matter to me as long
as I can get what I want. I think it's already has conquered the one not the desktop but it's
conquered the the computing device platform it has in Android but none of us here I think will accept
or will admit that what Google has put together on a Linux operating system is what we
envisage a free operating system to be it simply isn't it's a it's what happens when you make
compromise after compromise after compromise and on freedom oh my god what has happened
where's Richard Sormon but it's not the new desktop it's it's not the new desktop.
I'm with you Ken it's nice to have a Linux on your phone but I don't I don't think of it as Linux
I think of it as Android. Exactly it's got the Google man in the middle attack.
Yeah but thinking it as Android I mean well that's what they want many as well they I mean they even
dropped the Linux off the name and I was sort of thinking about this recently how I was trying
someone out sale ever but it's like they could if they really wanted to they could have gone out
then called it they could have called it actually properly called it like Android Linux or Linux
Android and then people might have thought oh what's Linux or I looked up and so on but they
didn't do that and actually saying that a lot of distributions are oh quite a few I'm not going
I'm not going to name them but quite a few of the desktop Linux distributions well they've they
have dropped the like Linux out of the name and they're just calling it by the distribution now
and that's like another another thing.
Well I've I've said it for a long time and I've said it to people here who may or may not
remember me saying it but we asked for the wrong thing we asked them for Linux on a phone and we've
got Linux on a phone what we really wanted was GNU on a phone and and we didn't get that because
we didn't ask for it and as far as the distros cutting Linux out of the naming scheme that's
no worse than Linux cutting GNU out of the naming scheme and Richard himself saying that
keeping GNU name out of it probably wasn't big for us though yeah well right exactly
in fairness they could have come up with a better thing than free software it's that's book number
one against the free software community. No one's come up with this. I don't for a moment except the
argument that well you've got three you know all it takes is three minutes to convince somebody
that the free software means something completely different to what they know free software happens
to be and you're telling a manager or a VP hey I've got this great free software in their mind
in the elevator in the three minute pitch you've got they're you're wasting that time trying to
put the bad impression of free software to everybody else except people listening to this what free
software means is virus-written invested cheap shareware crowd that goes on to your computer
why why ways that effort and energy point up pick a better name. Not not to mention it I don't
know but there's to you guys but nobody I know wants to talk to me for three minutes I mean other
than people who hang out on mumble and hacker public radio. Oh Polky come on look guys I have to
take my lovely wife and head off to a party I may drop you in later in the evening but it's been
great see you later. This is because he didn't want to talk to you Polky. Thank you dude. Thank you.
Thank you. I enjoy the party. Of course I want to talk to you later.
Thank you so much man you've been fantastic today. I'm thankful to all the tools dude.
Yeah bye. Have a good pie. I'm happy new year. Happy new year. I don't think the Android is the final
solution that we all really want but it's definitely a good you know step in the right direction it
offers more openness than any other phone platform has in the past whether it's Nokia or Apple or
or you know no then in hundreds you could you could just open up a console and get root.
True that is an exception but the majority of the other mainstream platforms were not open.
Agreed but Nokia had a what Nokia should get a slap about the phase four is drop in the bowl
on the smartphone. Oh exactly. That's so true it's such a crime against all technology what
Nokia did I mean they really had something so nearly great and then they just screwed it all up
couldn't believe it. In what way in what way did Nokia not get slapped about the face?
That's the point. I think you can't exactly what they asked for. The strangest thing is that they
slapped themselves in the face I mean it was it seems like it's all their their own doing they just
dropped the ball. The thing was oh yeah they've swore at it anyway. The thing was if they put a
phone chip in that department it was it was basically business politics if they put a phone cell
in there that phone will become under automatically under another department's
rain and will get squashed. But my whole point is you know Android is not truly open and
source it's not the new you know ideal and you know we'd always want you know phones that we can
flash and you know put the ROMs we want on and whatnot but you know I think it is a step in the
right direction so being people's minds you know we do have you know more options that we did before
with the mobile phones. Yeah but your set top box your television your toaster there's probably
about 20 devices in your house that's roaming your Linux kernel and none of them are free. Now
okay I'm being playing devil devil's advocate here because I happen to run a phone with
Scientogen mod on it so yes the source code is there you can compile it but it's not a truly
free device as is neither is the Raspberry Pi for that matter. Right and before Android there was
no Scientogen mod where you could flash ROMs onto a phone which is great. We have a lot of devices
that are locked down you know Raspberry Pi or whatever but you know we are going in the right
direction. There is one thing that Android has contributed to the sort of idea and concept of a
GNU phone and that is that people know that it is commercially viable now they absolutely know
it is commercially viable and that is extremely important in getting hardware manufacturers and
people that write device drivers and video drivers on board that is the most important thing I
think that Android is done. Okay that's that yes yes both of you are correct there however one
thing that it is also doing is proving that you can sell a mobile device with DRM controlled
secure media on an Android device on a Linux device as well in the mouse market. That's very true
I don't really participate in the whole DRM stuff because I just if it has DRM I just ignore it
but you are absolutely right for the people that like that sort of stuff.
It uh yeah it basically proves that you can get Linux out there to the mainstream but you have to
do it or you might have to do it in a kind of commercial way a bit more like well in some ways more
like proprietary software really you know even if it's if it's not really but and also when you go
back to the name stuff briefly we were talking about free software and what it means and stuff
or that but yeah people are going to think obviously they're going to think as in price maybe people
are going to think that and they might they're going to think freeware possibly or like Ken said with
viruses and stuff but but we know it means software freedom and that's that alone is then complicated
trying to explain that to somebody what does that mean what the means software freedom that
alert that that alone can be really difficult to try and to explain somebody and really having
understanding and like what we do like morals and what's the value of answers and also with the um
yeah but you're starting then with a level playing field you're not you're not work you're not
already having to build yourself a pit that you have to dig out before you start working from
there on the way up you know if they called it uh for freedom software for instance yeah which
will be absolutely no reason why they couldn't trademark for freedom software.com okay and then you
walk up to your IT director and you say hey I've got some software it's for freedom software and
uh yeah they wouldn't care if for them it would be just a word like Borland or whatever they would
say can you get a maintenance contract for it yes is it supported yes fine job done. Yeah you
could call it ethical software or free trade software or sustainable software any one of these
buzzwords yes more better than free because of the association of free with cost. Yeah right
freeware equals free software is is what everybody jumps to and I always figured you have to figure
you that we don't have to come up with its own word because it's in covered in covered with
so many languages especially the English language. I think some people went to opens the word
open source in the first place because it was a better word than free software. Yeah I was thinking
something like that it open source is is grace kind of that way or you could say maybe lead but
software like what was just suggested. Well uh that is not just because it's open source now that's
been tainted but ethical software would be fine as well or for freedom software trademark that's
what he's all about. Yeah freedom would be a big jump I think just to get rid of a free and change
it to freedom software. Yeah freedom software. Could we help the branding? Could we help
with the logo? When I talk to people at my company would you say no? I said can we have brave
heart was the logo. Maybe hey it's it's about a minute and 15 seconds from the next New Year's Eve.
This is a really long one. Go for it Levi. Good thing you've got over a minute to say it.
Okay here goes. So this is going to be a very happy New Year too. Greece, Israel, South Africa,
Finland, Turkey, Ukraine, Romania, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Egypt, Syria, West Bank, Malawi,
Moldova, Zimbabwe, much of the Congo Democratic Republic, Lithuania, Estonia, Zambia,
the Soto, Miranda, Latvia, Burunday, Swaziland, Botswana, Gaza Strip, Lebanon, Namibia and Mozambique.
Happy New Year to all all people living in those countries. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
Happy New Year. Happy New Year. And congratulations on good pronunciation.
Yeah right and with the streaming delay we might have got that right on time.
If I was going to make a logo for Freedom Software it would be TuX but he would be dressed up like
Mel Gibson in Braveheart. No it has to be something. If you're going down the road of Freedom
Software it has to be something that looks corporate. There's some sort of coffee stain squiggle
like the Debian logo will be ideal. Or is this like the the alternative TuX logo? Have you seen that?
There's the sort of the more corporate one. Let me see if I can pull it up. Some guy made it a while ago
and it's actually very slick looking so it might be adopted. We could do free trade software
and we could make it out of hemp and patchouli. Yes and get sued. Everyone hates hippies there.
Heck even I hate hippies and vegetarian. It's too localized. How about me but that would
only work in the US would be like Ben Franklin. Hey you know something Bill it's funny because you
asked earlier how you sounded to me and every time I'm quiet for a while and you speak up I
think I'm listening to me recorded. You sound like I sound in my own head. Oh really? That's
interesting. Yeah you keep tricking me and I'm like wait is this recorded? Did somebody do this?
I keep thinking. I keep thinking. Well you must have a very good voice book. I've been told.
I keep thinking Clot 2 sounds like Jay Oppa Marad from Radio Lab. He's great. So what's going on guys?
I'm out of work. You're back. Oh we're so sorry. Oh you mean you just got off of work?
Yeah I got out. You got laid off or something. Beat me to the same Joe Clot 2. Oh god you guys
have more of it. You said you were out of work. I mean that's that's that's Americanism for
I got that laid off. Well you know but in the context of me I'm saying goodbye to you at 7.30
this morning. I was a long time ago. Do you have no idea the conversations and topics that have
transpired? 7.30 is a long way away. Well you know I was warning over you know
the conversation because I have an idea of one that I wanted to bring up. Okay but first let me
congratulate or well I guess congratulate you. So that I liked the episode of the Mysticism
episode that you posted the other day or so on HPR. Oh I'm so glad. That was actually a live
recording of me giving a speech. So I loved it. Yeah I loved it. Yeah I loved it too.
I found it interesting. Yeah it's a it's a whole different way of looking at you know when I
first started doing that stuff I just it was like you know it's something there's a learning curve
involved that's put that way. Well so anyway. Sorry can I can? No no no I've I've spoken
enough runs I don't know. God knows. Look I was scanning using it the other day and I found one
of these movies that just had great geek content as far as I was concerned it was called Underground
the Julian Assange story and apparently it was a made for TV. Australian flick about Julian
Assange's adolescence in Melbourne Australia and at one scene it's after he made love to his
new girlfriend and she's like in bed reading a book and he's like trying a chip off a motherboard
with a big gnarly screwdriver and you know I said to myself that's great that's exactly how I
want to remember the 80s. Did you know that he had a match.com profile or I think it was a match.com
might have been no K-Cupid profile. It was okay Cupid because I have a friend who was like totally
trying to get him to date her. Oh I was I was like one of the first couple of people that found
that and oh man I have probably never laughed that hard in my life other than reading that it's
it's brilliant oh man is it good post-link. If it's still up I don't know if it is if nothing
else I can probably find screenshots. So I was wondering like you know what other great computer
scenes and movies have you guys can you guys think of that were just make you you won't forget.
I can't tell you that Dave. That was a classic film. Any film that has the screen come back with
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