hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr2693.txt

Episode: 2693
Title: HPR2693: Getting started with web based game in Haskell and Elm
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2693/hpr2693.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 07:36:39

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This is HPR Episode 2693 entitled Getting Started With Web Based Game in Hakell & Elm.
It is hosted by Tuku Toroto and in about 19 minutes long and Karima Clean Flag.
The summary is first steps in writing for X-Pace Exploration Game.
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Hello listeners of the Hackerfather Radio, this is Tuku and today I'm going to
talk a little bit about the game programming with Hacker and Elm.
I have been working on a small game, the taste game for a bit now and thought that it might
be a fun idea to record sort of an audio diary until what I have learned and what my
plans have been and what kind of problems I have had to share with you with the listeners
of the Hackerfather Radio.
I'm doing this because I don't have a plan to make a complete game, it is more of an
learning experience, I'm a person who learns by doing and making simple games has always
been my preferred way of learning new things about programming, I started that when I was
tiny, tiny kid, I think 7 or so when I self-prod writing text adventures and I have been
doing it since then.
So the game I have been working on is a browser based multiplayer, space exploration
game, that's a mouthful but the idea is that there's a game that is running constantly,
it's a turn-based, in a sense, but that turns don't wait the players, they are automatically
done every, for example, every 24 hours or so and the recordless of what you have done
or recordless of if the player has given his input or not on a certain turn that turns
are evaluated, and I'm writing this with a hospital, yes or mainly, and a little bit
of error, and I was really lucky in a sense that it's easier to change things than to
create from nothing, and yes or comes with a stack template, stack instead, a hospital
built tool, configuration tool, but the stack comes with a yes or template, I can just
call a stack, I think it was a stack template, something, something, I checked it, put it on
the show notes, but it will create a scaffold, yes or correct, that's a fully fledged, yes
or website that has a, it doesn't have much of content, but it has a menu, it has a breadcrumbs,
it has a out-and-dickation, authorization, things like these basic things are in place,
so it was easy for me to just create a project from there, then start adding on that, just delete
the demo pages and start adding there, and the plan is basically just to keep changing
that demo pages that came with the yes or until the game ready or only I lose the interest
or decide that there's something else I'd rather do, so the idea is that the players can
change their orders any time, so at any given moment they can look at the page, they can
see what's the current situation for them, they can give orders to the, for example, planets
or the ships or whatever I end up adding in the game, and they can revert those orders and
give new orders, but when they turn in, the system will simulate what would happen or
rather what will happen when all these orders are taken into account, and it will create
a new, sort of a new state of the world, and then the players can again, you won't see
what's the state and how things have been progressing with the news and stuff, and keep
giving orders, or maybe they just decided that some seven orders are still valid, let's not
change this, for example, some planets have been ordered to scientific research and they
have failed to fill that this is a good idea, so let's keep doing no need to change that.
And I wanted to, originally I wanted to make this holding to wrong completely on the, on
the plane HTML, and just a tiny amount of client-side scripting, just, just as an, as
a challenge, basically, but I, at some point I realized that this is not going to cut it,
and I will need to write the client completely on the element, but at the start, the client
was basically just a dumb HTML, HTML, H's, a little bit more here, but yeah, and that's,
that's an act of, as of the moment I'm recording that, that's still working progress thing,
still writing the client on the, with the element, and so, let's talk a little bit about
the idea of the HTML more, I wanted to add a little twist into the game, in a way that
each player belongs to a factor, they have their own group, and one factor can have more
than one player, I haven't figured out how, how, how players are divided between like
fractions, and how can they move between them, and if they can move between them, and then,
and then, planets and ships, and basically everything don't belong to the players, but they
belong to the, the, the, the, the, the, the, at least that's the current, current idea,
and this hopefully gives an interesting dynamic in the game, in a sense that there's a group
of, there's always a group of people, sometimes there's a group of people, there's a one, sometimes
there's a bigger, that are managing this, whatever you want to call it, space, empire, space,
republic, space, something that has the planet, and they have, they, in between themselves
have to somehow decide what needs to be researched, research is going to be a big part of the
game, because in the beginning you can barely fly a spaceship, and you have to start researching
a bigger space ships, and better technologies, and better sensors, and do some basic research,
and then do some applied research, and then decide where to spend all the resources, and
at the same time you have to also have to manage your planet, you have to give the population
effect, give them reasonably happy, maybe have them to, some meaningful things to do, maybe
do some planet-based exploration instead of space exploration, because planets are huge,
like that, but if you look around and see that, how big Earth for example is, and how in the
space game it's usually just a one hex, and there's a couple numbers, and there isn't much to do
on a planet on a space game, I kind of want to change this a little bit solely, if you find a new planet,
and you land there, and you set an outpost, and start, we start living there, obviously you need to
have a planet-based exploration, that you can go around and roam on the planet and try to see if
there's anything interesting to find there, and all this needs to be managed that group of people
on single planet, but group of players, if I ever have a group of players, and if I ever have a
playable game that is, that's a couple big ifs, but that might give an interesting dynamic if there's
some planet-based exploration, who has decided that I want to explore the planet, I don't want to spend
my, meager resources to go to the space, and in the same fraction, the, some, another, another
guide who's in charge of the solar system, star system, and it's thinking that we do planets
on, and his opinion is that we need to explore the space, so why don't you help me with this goal?
So it might create nice, nice dynamic there, or not, I don't know, it's a, it's just an idea,
basically, but that's basically the idea of the game, and so back in, written,
Haskell-Fundent, HTML, later, are, even called, some resting phase in between, and all the data,
of course, all that stuff needs to be stored somewhere, so I'm just thinking all kinds of ideas
here, but then I decided that probably is the easiest, easiest, if I call it a simple relational
database, because that's the things that I know fairly well, that probably isn't going to give me
any big surprises, although they're already a surprise, and I talked about that a little bit later,
but I didn't want to do any Cosmos DB or MongoDB or other things, because while I have an
idea about those technologies, I'm not that familiar with them, and I didn't want to, I didn't want to
have too many new things to learn, because this Haskell-Fundent is going to be blending in
after, because I've been playing a little bit with them, but I haven't ever written anything big,
and sometimes it's really frustrating to work with the Haskell, because while it's a really
fun language, it's not too complicated, they say, but concepts are sometimes
completely different, but I have what I'm used to, so it's really hard to work around some
things, and sometimes it's really interesting, surprises, like I'm using a yes or comes with a
persistent for the database access, which is really nice, nice library, and I thought that
that would be enough for me, but then through and I learned that the persistent can't through
joins, you cannot join two tables and query data from both in a one query, there's some
good reason behind that, I think that's a good fact that persistent supports various different
kinds of back-ends, so they have to go with the minimum set of features that is available for all
of those, and then this I worked around by learning the sql, which is another
library for accessing databases, but sql is not in the stack yet, the stack is like I mentioned,
that build management tool that also comes with a curated package, so if you
all the packages that are available in the stack are currently to some degree to work together,
so you can, it's easy to pick the version from the stack because you know that if I use this
version of the library, all these other libraries will work together, together with it, but sql
is not the stack, so that I had to get from the GitHub directly, basically in my configuration
said that this library doesn't come from the stack, but it comes from the GitHub or GitHub repository,
and it's a specific commit that you need to make, and how did I think that specific commit
I would do the latest version from the master, and if this compiles it's probably good enough,
and so far it has been good enough, but yeah, so data starting the database,
Haskell, no sorry, yes or no, this is a good first approach on the database, there's a
model.config file where you write up, where you describe what kind of entities you have,
and yes or no, based on that information generate your database for you, it even has some
automatic migration tools, they are very rudimentary, they are good enough for the development,
but you cannot use those in the little real production, and you will commit you have to do the,
you have to do the migration by hand, if and then your database changes, you have to do those
changes by hand, and I think your specific case is how to data needs to change, if it needs to change.
Some data I have, well I don't know if I have to, but I came to a conclusion that I have to
spell as a JSON in the database, it's not optimal, you're going to do meaningful searches into
JSON data that is passed in some way in the database, but that that's into, when I was doing this,
seem to be the approach that gave me this, this is related to the algebraic data files,
so I don't have a data type that has very different looking data, like I don't have a,
it's all in the, it's all the same type in the Haskell, but it can be looked really different,
and if you were to map it into the, into the relational database, the rows, rows, and columns,
you could end up with multiple tables making queries for your heart, so I just decided to
serialize that, that those things into the JSON, sort them into the database, we done with that,
I cannot query that data, I cannot change that data easily, I believe it's always a different
operation, I take this data and replace it with this version of the data, but I'm happy with that,
so this is, this is basically the state, state of the database stuff for myself,
and like I said, the JSON comes with the authentication out of the box, I'm using the,
in the development environment, the very simple version we have, it's just a simple text box,
we are going to write that, it asks, and you go through the page, who are you, and you just type
your user ID, the first login, and then you log in, that's the user, no password, no, but,
no security whatsoever, but that's good enough for me for the development, I didn't want,
I haven't looked into the email password combination,
authentication, or into the, into the, or, or any, any of those,
what, what people are more used to, but, I know that yes, I can do that, so I don't have to
worry about that, now, I'm just concentrating now on getting the very basic blocks
into place, and get the whole thing off the ground, so I can, like I said, it's easier to change
something than it is to create something from the mapping, so I can, my goal currently is to
just create something that I can later start changing, as long as there's a song, right,
first, first step is to have a player, a person for the player, a planet, where they can be,
planet of course needs to be a solar system, solar system, star system, and star system,
has to have one or more stars, and on a planet there can be buildings, like farms for producing food,
and maybe some research stations producing research points, and so on, but that's the,
first step I want to concentrate, okay, I'm going to call this off now, and
going to start coding a little bit, and I'll get back to this, when I have some more to talk about,
so, have a good one, cheers.
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