hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr0334.txt

Episode: 334
Title: HPR0334: Toti
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr0334/hpr0334.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-07 16:36:36

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You
Hello, my name is Lost in Bronx.
Today I'm going to talk to you about audio books and audio plays, how they differ and
how they're the same.
It's basic stuff that you all know, but I'm hoping to cover at least a little fresh
ground.
Each of these audio media have a history and a pedigree, all of their own, and to one
extent or another they demand different disciplines of their producers and performers, yet they're
closely related, and appreciating one lends greater appreciation for the others.
The podio books are all the rage these days.
There are other sources out there tracing the history and current form of the podio book
movement, so there's a little reason to cover all that here, especially considering that
few listeners of this show would be entirely unfamiliar with them.
But let's settle on a general definition.
Podio books are a form of audio media, often fictive, but not always, that is serialized
and published on the internet for download, at least semi-regularly.
With an RSS feed, podio book chapters are made available to their audiences automatically
through some sort of pod catcher software, but this is only one method of dissemination.
The delivered quality of the RSS distribution format places podio books squarely into the
old serialized novel family of publishing methods popular a century or so ago.
That is to say, books broken up into regular parts, over time, delivered automatically
to the consumer.
In both the historical and modern cases of this publishing method, said consumers have had
to have subscriptions of some sort, or else seek out the story chapters on their own,
either at a new stand for a paper-based serial or through a direct download on a website
for the more modern audio-based version thereof, it's both the serialized quality and
the automatic delivery potential of podio books which, in my opinion, separate them from
their sibling literary form, the audio book.
Audio books, by and large, are published and distributed complete, that is to say not
in a serialized form, there are some notable exceptions though, especially in the so-called
amateur or volunteer areas of the web, such as the usual method by which public domains
are recorded at places like Librevox.org and Project Gutenberg.
It's even possible to get updates of these public domain works as they're being published,
either through automatic email or RSS feed or what have you, which then, going solely by
my previous definition, turns them into podio books.
The popularity of audio books, however, predates the podio book, especially in the commercial
end of things.
Audio book versions of most popular fiction and non-fiction titles, produced by the major
publishing houses, have been available for many years and continue to be so.
They are a lucrative end of the publishing industry.
Podio books, by contrast, are often, though certainly not exclusively, released free of charge
and, as such, commercializing these products, like many other aspects of the digital age,
has had to come indirectly.
Merchandising, donations, and memberships of different kinds are being pursued in the
podio book work, and, while decent livings for the authors involved seem possible through
these methods, thus far, true fortunes have proven elusive.
With the possible exception of Scott Sigler, about whom I'll speak more of in a bit, it
seems doubtful to me, at least as things currently stand, that the kind of revenue engines
created by authors like Stephen King and J.K. Rowling are even remotely possible for
a podio book author.
As a writer myself, I lament this conclusion, but as reader, I welcome it.
Some of the finest authors in history can currently be found in audio format for free
on the internet.
I predict that some of the finest that the future will produce will choose to publish their
works exclusively, or at least initially, in the podio book format.
One of the roadblocks to this, beside the previously mentioned financial concern, is
a performance-based one.
The best authors are not necessarily the best readers or performers.
Some have no interest in or technical ability to record themselves, some have no talent
in that regard, and some are just shy.
Conversely, the best readers are not necessarily the best authors.
Performance for an audience is an inherently different discipline than writing for one.
Once the future will bring about an organization or a website that acts as a network or clearing
house between authors interested in the podio book format, but who lack the means to pursue
this interest, and audio producers and performers who do have the means, but not the material
to work with.
For the moment, though, this sort of easy connection doesn't seem to exist.
A pioneer in the podio book format, as I have defined it already, is Scott Sigler, who
in 2005, released installments of his podio book, Earthcore, to an ever-growing, loyal
and eager audience.
According to his site, much of which is written in a humorous or tongue-in-cheek manner,
so make of this what you will, quote Scott reinvented book publishing when he released Earthcore
as the world's first podcast-only novel.
Released in 20 weekly episodes, Earthcore harkened back to the days of serialized radio fiction
and picked up 10,000 subscribers along the way.
Unquote.
As mentioned, podio books have an ancestry that goes back a long way, but as an art form
of their own, if they are in their infancy, then Scott Sigler is easily their wet nurse.
Again, places like Librevox.org were publishing chapters of public domain books as they were
being recorded and became available, true serialization, in and around the same time.
But Scott Sigler may be said to be the one to define what we currently understand podio
book to mean, even if it's debatable that he was the first to do it, nor did he even
coin the phrase.
He popularized and found a way to make money off of it, something that still eludes most
podio book authors.
Now where does one get podio books?
Well first and still foremost is the dreaded iTunes.
I don't like iTunes and I don't like the Apple Corporation or their products, but they
knew what they were doing from a business standpoint when it came to iTunes because
they've been very successful with it.
It's been said of podcast, and by extension we can include podio books that if you're
not on iTunes, then you don't really have an audience.
Now that may be an exaggeration, maybe iTunes is a huge source of podio books.
If you're a member there, if you like it, you can find lots of free content.
If iTunes isn't an option, try podcastally.com or podcast directory.com, podcastpickle.com.
You can generally go to the authors website for downloads if searching through a massive
index isn't thrilling, and you already know who or what it is you're looking for.
Now where does one get audiobooks?
Well if you want them for free, because we like free, free is good, try iTunes again,
audible.com, audiobooks.org, leaverevox.org, and projectgootenberg.org.
And there are quite a few others obviously, so do a web search.
Many of the free as in beer offerings in these places will be classics or newer public
domain works.
If you're looking for the latest best sellers, you'll either have to pay for them at places
like iTunes or Amazon or download them off a torrent or something, which is generally
considered bad form by the major publishing houses and the governments that support
them, so just be aware.
Audio dramas.
My definition of an audio drama, as opposed to a dramatic audio production, is something
we can more properly describe as an audio play.
Often multicast and containing careful direction and, when not produced live, careful editing.
They can involve the efforts of many people, theme and background music are typically included
as our sound effects and what may be defined as voice acting.
Audio plays can be of any genre, ranging from high adventure, to comedy, to drama, musical,
and even the doctor drama.
As represented by old time radio or OTR as it is referred, audio plays are an intermediary
electronic form of performance that span the revolutionary moment of time between the
vast period in human history of live theater and the newer one of the various technologically
produced media.
It ran concurrently with the advent of the motion picture and borrowed heavily from
the conventions and formats of that medium, but it also informed it with its own set
of innovations and then came television, which, since pretty much all the early forms
of audio drama were commercialized to one degree or another, stole away the money.
Hardly the first time one technology displaced another, nor the last, but right there is
where we begin to go wrong and misunderstanding begins to creep in, because the audio play
in and of itself is not a technology, radio is a technology.
Video could kill the radio star, but it could not kill the audio play.
The audio play is simply a method of production, a way of telling a story.
In that period of time, the audio play was dependent upon the radio industry for its creation
and distribution, and thus, because it was a commercial interest, it depended upon the
money flowing into radio from advertisers.
The audio play, when directly compared to video, is a preferable form of storytelling
in some cases and vice versa, but by and large, they are two different animals depending
entirely upon technologies that cater directly to their needs.
Side-by-side comparisons therefore tend to be pointless or at least misleading.
And before I go further, for the sake of this episode, I want to clarify what I'm not
talking about when I say old-time radio.
I'm not talking about news, game shows, talk shows, or programs that were strictly musical
or a variety in nature.
So truthfully, shows like, say, Jack Bannies, defy easy categorization with their sitcom
like structures, guest stars, and musical interluse.
I'm making broad generalizations, and there were, and continue to be, exceptions to each
one.
Still, I'm eliminating these, specifically, from this talk for three reasons.
First, I don't want this episode to be hours long, and it could be if I drew on every
possible historical influence.
Secondly, I don't really know those things very well, and thirdly, while they too have
much in common with dramatic audio media past and present, they are, at least in my book,
the furthest such relatives from my subject today.
So how do audio plays differ from patio books and audio books?
Well sometimes they don't, at least not to any great extent, but they can include a wider
range of effects and performers.
First of a movie compared to the book that inspired it.
The latter, even if it has a clever narrative structure, is a story.
Stories can be read by a single person.
The former is an inherently larger production, often involving multiple performers, and
in the old days, they were oftentimes performed in front of a live audience.
That's right.
People used to dress up and stand in line for the chance to watch a bunch of actors
stand in front of a microphone on stage and read their lines from a script.
I read about that when I was a kid, and my parents, who were kids during that time period,
often told me about it, and I could never quite get why anyone would want to go watch
actors standing in front of a microphone.
That is, until I got a chance to see it for myself.
More about that in a moment.
For now, you might wonder where one gets old time radio shows.
For free of charge, try archive.org.
They don't have everything, but they have a lot.
It is, however, often convenient to buy a disc of shows from somewhere, as tracking episodes
down can take forever.
One of my favorite places is OTRCAT.com, that's OTRCAT.com, which offers a huge range of
old programs from around the world.
Many, if not all, for only $5 US, for a full disc of shows.
That can amount to anywhere from 20 to 40 hours of entertainment for only 5 bucks.
That's tough to beat.
The service is good there, and the disc quality is high.
Sound quality, of course, varies greatly from show to show, depending upon how they were
originally recorded and preserved over the years.
But I would hazard to say that if you're listening to a lot of podcasts, you can't be an
audio snob as it is.
Some sources of newer audio plays include darkerprojects.com, which produces original productions
and fan fiction style shows based on Star Trek, Doctor Who, and others.
I kind of think of them as the hacker public radio of genre audio plays, and if you check
out their site, you'll know what I mean.
While you're at it, check out decoderringtheater at decoderring.libson.com, who do new original
shows in the OTR style, featuring a Canadian superhero following the shadow or green
hornet tradition, going by the moniker of the red panda, its corny fun, and suitable for
the little ones.
But why stop with audio only?
If you're lucky or do your research, you may just have the opportunity to see new live
radio style productions performed on stage by actors in a theater, yes, just like the
old days.
I put a couple links in the show notes.
Again, fans of dramatic audio media, those that get the opportunity anyway, should do
themselves the favor of checking out what this kind of entertainment is like, because it
can be so involving and compelling, it'll make you wish you had a time machine.
Snapshot, it's 1996 and I'm walking down a side street in the Soho section of Manhattan
in New York City.
With me is a lady friend from out of town, who's in just for the night to see me.
And yes, I thought I was going to get me some too, yet it never happened, but that's
another story.
Anyway, we're walking down the street, it's, I don't know, maybe 630 in the evening
on a Saturday, just late enough that most of the art galleries and studios were closed
or closing.
The industrial culinary supply shops were pulling down their gates, and we were looking
for a place to eat.
Suddenly, we walked by a sign on the sidewalk, have to walk around it really, which by chance
alone, I happened to glance at.
It advertises a night of old time radio to be performed at 8 o'clock that evening at
a hidden theater of the stairs.
Well, by this point, for reasons again, I won't go into, I knew that romance was not
in the wind, so why not do something else, something different, maybe fun.
We had no plans, so we went in, and by chance found someone at the box office, one of
those old-fashioned little gilded cage things that made the girl in it look like a canary.
And we grabbed some tickets in advance.
We left then, and I forget where we ate, where we were just killing time anyway, but we
made it back for the show and climbed up four, four flights of stairs in an old renovated
garment factory and found ourselves in a large, pretty theater, spacious, plush seats, purple
velvet curtains and all.
And the place was packed, I was really glad we didn't count on tickets being available
at curtain time.
I mean, there are often tickets for sale from no shows on the reservations, and you can
jump on those if you're willing to wait and take a chance.
But not this night, no, sir.
This was a theatrical secret we'd stumbled upon, an open one by the size of the crowd, but
I had my eye on off Broadway stuff in those days, and I am telling you, I'd never heard
of this.
A professional production company dedicated to doing live recreations of old-time radio
shows on stage in period costumes and makeup.
Yeah, it's slick guys in their monkey suits, and pretty veins all dialed up.
There was a small orchestra and an honest-to-god period style sound-defect station on stage near
the actors, manned by a gallast and drudgeonous creature of tremendous talent and energy, who
ended the night with a well-deserved standing ovation of his or her own.
On the bill was a slice of ABC radio from the late 1940s, quaint news, hilarious old commercials,
and for the main attraction, the piece of resistance, a full recreated episode of The Fat Man.
There he goes into that drugstore.
He's stepping on the scales.
Wait 239 pounds.
Fortune, danger.
Who is it?
The Fat Man.
Theater can be magical, but man, this was in a class of its own.
The costumes and pageant of it all really helped cement it, but it was a kickass audio production
in its own right.
Yep, I'm saying it.
Dramatic audio media, watched live, beats the living crap out of almost anything on television
or in the movies.
Speak it out if you can, you will not be sorry.
Now we often hear about the golden age of radio when we study the history of radio drama,
and often times it's assumed that this was the beginning and end of quality audio productions.
Expressed more inclusively though, we should probably place the classic era of radio production
ranging from the 1930s to the early 1960s into a broader context of audio media.
This would certainly include classic and golden age radio productions of various kinds,
but it would neither begin nor end there.
The antecedent of all distributed audio media known today is, surprise, surprise, the
live performance.
Before the advent of audio recording technology, this was the only audio medium known and writing
and performance specialties sprang up to take on many of the similar formats we recognize
today.
In ancient times, for instance, there were professional balladiers and storytellers.
They recited stories and books from memory for the enjoyment and enlightenment of others,
much as patio and audiobook authors do today.
There were also ancient theatrical performance styles which involve little action and a great
deal of vocal performance.
In such productions, the actors would wear costumes and masks, but for the most part stand
around on the stage, statically reciting their lines.
It's not hard to imagine that a person sitting outside listening to the show but not seeing
it directly would get pretty much the same show as those that were viewing it.
In modern times, as I mentioned before, there have been a large number of quality radio
productions that fell and continued to fall outside of the generally regarded era of the
so-called golden age.
But there have been audio media productions since that time that are or have been of high
merit, yet which were not necessarily delivered by radio.
Now, this might seem like an academic distinction, but it is important since the rise of the
internet podcast in recent years has allowed audio media productions to once again take wing
in a highly creative, less derivative manner than commercial radio in the modern era.
Now, there are notable exceptions to even this, such as Garrison Killers, a prairie home
companion in the United States, which has been running for many years now, and BBC Radio
out of the UK, which has a long history of producing high quality audio dramas for radio,
up to and including recent years.
But certainly, recent production, even where some semblance of the old days has survived,
is at a vastly reduced production rate.
This dearth of newly produced commercial radio drama is global in nature, just as it once
was a plethora, but computer technology has allowed enthusiasts of audio media to produce
and distribute their own creative endeavors for little or no money.
Now, at least since the availability of inexpensive tape recording equipment for home use, it
has been within the realm of possibility for enthusiasts to write, act, and edit, at
least to a certain extent, their own productions.
But distribution was limited only to those people who could get a copy, and that rarely
amounted to more than a handful, that has changed.
A web search of no great depth reveals new audio productions out there, ranging from genre
favorites like science fiction and fantasy to comedy, mystery, and everything else.
Shows like these are being made at an impressive rate, consisting of writing, voice acting, sound
effects, music, and editing, at all levels of accomplishment, ranging from the highly
polished to the highly painful, and in that regard things are certainly in keeping with
tradition.
While we like to remember the great shows of the Golden Age, we also like to forget that
for every gem that was broadcast there were dozens of duds.
So where am I going with all this?
Well, as I see it, and I emphasize again, this is purely my opinion, we stand on the edge,
or in fact may already be in the midst of a new Golden Age of audio media production.
Like the original, no one at the time necessarily knew how good things were until they were
no more, so to speak.
I think it would be who of anyone who has an interest in audio media drama passed or present
to investigate the historical and current trends and milestones.
Potty book authors and producers can certainly learn a lot from listening to the very best
audio drama of days passed and present, arguably the apex of the first Golden Age in the
United States was the old time radio show Gunsmoke.
Now I'm not a fan of the Western genre, but you don't need to be in order to appreciate
the quality of this show or indeed to enjoy its stories, and that broad appeal was the
key to its enduring success and make no mistake it was very successful.
It enjoyed a run of almost 9 years on radio and with a different cast crossed over to television
and ran for 20 years.
On radio it was smart, the writing was tremendous and the acting outstanding, it was a program
in a medium which was then quite mature and it was intended for a mature audience.
It was surprisingly violent and even disturbing at times, much more so than its television
descendant was ever allowed to be, often featuring psychopaths, rapists and murderers of all
stripes, not to mention the occasional duel at high noon, and the discipline of sound
effects reached its zenith with that show, crossing in and of itself and without question
into the realm of art.
The episodes that survive and most of them do can be found at the internet archive, I'll
have a link in the show notes and I urge you, no, I'd mnemonish you to check it out.
I bring up that show because it is a stellar example of what dramatic audio media can be.
Radio has been described as the theater of the imagination, and if you agree with my
earlier descriptors so indeed are all forms of dramatic audio media, whether live, recorded,
audio book, audio book, or full-blown production with cast and crew.
The best example I ever heard to illustrate this power of audio media was something this simple.
Say for the sake of argument you have a sound effect like this.
You are producing a silly audio-based comedy of some sort.
At one point, you're a performer, says to someone else, either real or imagined,
Hey you there! Toss me that piano!
Your performer was just tossed a piano, something absolutely impossible to do live,
or without animation of some sort on film or television.
With one single sound effect and a spoken line to support it,
you have enabled the listening audience to create the action
however absurd for themselves.
No one listening has any confusion over what just happened,
done with the proper comedic timing,
not one member of the audience will question the propriety of the gag
within context of the performance,
which is never the case with visual-based gags,
especially those relying upon special effects.
This is audio media's inherent strength.
The power to control, the finest, most perfectly tuned and tailored
cinematographic and special visual effect device on Earth,
the listener's own imagination.
No CGI, no animation and no amount of celebrity can compare.
Indeed, these things are distracting,
taking the freedom and power to create the structure and detail of the moment
away from the audience.
An unlike visual-based media,
everything the listener hears can be a sound effect,
including the speaking voice of the performers,
simply reading their scripts.
Butting audio media performers would do well to practice the disciplines
and conventions of public speaking.
As wit and a good script are only two of the tools available.
Diction, volume, careful emphasis,
these are talents for some people,
but they are learnable skills for everyone else.
Actors, presenters and lecturers who are skilled in the reading of a line
or in the delivery of a joke,
enjoy an increased level of power over the imaginations of the listeners.
In other words, talent and skill in speaking puts the audio performer
on the same level as sound effects,
greatly enhancing the visual aspect of the show,
occurring in the listener's head.
In this regard,
podio books and audio books can have an edge over audio plays,
since sound effects, music and dramatic editing,
while often incorporated, are generally less emphasized,
and the onus of the imagined visuals is on the performer to a far greater extent.
It takes a fine reader and speaker to give a fine performance in audio books and podio books.
There's more wiggle room in this regard, obviously,
when it's a multicast, music and sound effects laden dramatic performance
with careful direction and editing.
Yet each of these forms,
the audio play,
the podio book and the audio book are related
and can draw on the strengths normally associated with the others
in order to enhance the final production.
Anyone serious about audio presentation,
whether they're actors, writers, readers, podcast presenters,
podcast guests or even disc jockeys,
can enhance their skills and understanding of their chosen medium
through a study of the forms, formats,
and formalized conventions of audio production.
Listen to old-time radio.
Listen to audio books.
Listen to podio books.
Carefully listen to radio DJs and announcers.
Enhanced public speaking and quality vocal performance are learned skills.
With the possible exception of throat cancer survivors,
anyone who wants to increase the net quality of their dramatic audio media production,
whatever it happens to be can do so simply with practice
and by listening to themselves as they speak.
Now, you might think I've diverged the talk dreadfully
from an overview of the various forms of dramatic audio media,
but consider this.
The most dynamic and creative works of this type are not being produced
by a monolithic industry intent on generating revenue
for people, companies, and organizations
who are essentially divorced from the art form and creative products they own.
In fact, the best stuff happening today is community-based,
produced by enthusiasts who love what they do and want to do it better.
Some of them are trying to find a way of making a living at their chosen application,
and if they are successful, it can only benefit the listener
who, well at least in theory, will have a greater abundance of dramatic audio media to choose from in the future.
Supply and demand offered and sought out by ordinary people,
the kind who listen to podcasts like this one.
So, the audio book, the audio book, the audio play.
These are exciting times for dramatic audio media.
All across the world, the potential of these forms
are being rediscovered and experimented with.
And I am convinced we can fully expect great things,
not just a good way to kill an hour's commute,
or something to listen to while other work is being done,
unarguably, another strength of these media,
but beyond that, great things are coming.
It's an art form with many faces, and it's alive and kicking.
The future is bright, and the best is yet to come.
Now, when was the last time you heard those clichés
that they actually meant something?
This has been Lost in Bronx.
You can contact me at Lost in Bronx at gmail.com.
That's L-O-S-T-N-B-R-O-N-X at Gmail.
I'd love to hear any commentary agreeable or otherwise.
Take care.
Thank you for listening to H.P.R.R. sponsored by Carol.net.
So head on over to C-A-R-O dot-E-T for all of us here.