hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr2249.txt

Episode: 2249
Title: HPR2249: 2016-2017 HPR New Year show episode 3
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2249/hpr2249.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 00:10:38

---

This is HBR Episode 2249 entitled HBR New Year Show Episode 3.
It is hosted by Maria Stokes and is about 225 minutes long and can remain a explicit flag.
The summary is Haka Public Radio New Year's Eve Show Episode 3.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by An Honest Host.com.
Get 15% discount on all shared hosting with the offer code HBR15.
That's HBR15.
Better web hosting that's Honest and Fair at An Honest Host.com.
So at the risk of bringing everyone down, 2016 has been a hell of a year for nothing for
losing celebrities, isn't it?
Yeah, and Syrians.
Well, that too, that too, but not a lot of the big, I mean, I'm not worries now, so a lot of the people that I knew are celebrities in the sort of days and the 90s.
But what are they, what are the big names then, are sort of dying off now, is just one after the other.
It's like, what? It's like 2016 and 78 years where a lot of people are dying, a lot of bad names are dying.
And possibly the biggest thing after George Maygore and Christmas Day was Cardi Fischer and then David Enel, that the after that was just, that was just so sad.
And it'll come, you tumble a bit from nothing.
I could say, so they say I'm not really too big in the celebrity world, you know, hang out with a bunch of hackers on New Year's Eve.
I know that I'm just, just things I've noticed on the news, just over the last year, so big names that I would consider it be like big names, so I'll have to tie it a lot.
How there's some Linux people I've been hanging out with for about four and a half years.
Who's that?
A whole bunch of them, about two or three dozen.
Yeah, I mean, one of our own recent past this year too, Lord D.
Oh, passed away.
Yeah, Lord D is no longer with us.
I don't remember if the Eulogy show ever made it out to HPR yet.
If I did, I just spoiled it.
Oh, that's a shame.
There was one, one mumble channel used to hang out on Linux digital community.
My favorite guy over there, he died.
What was his name on preacher?
Yeah, he was awesome.
Yeah, the last day, I think it was probably two years ago, and Lord D was kind of Eul.
But I didn't, Eul was, I've been sort of pretty much off lanes of course, year and a half.
That's sad.
He's gone, you know, and Haines say it probably, you know, can I guess that I would have been heartened by now, but yeah, that's kind of sad.
Just to bring up the topic is something else.
Has anyone seen that the FSF is looking for your end donation drive?
Yes, I can see that.
There was an email directly to me from Richard Selman, because I used to be an FSF member.
I felt like I saw the place after that, the bridge down on the mountain, which was good.
But I felt like it's a little bit annoying that every year,
because by the end, these organizations, they used to be a member of the, they go, oh, don't trust again.
Again, you're from Wikipedia as well, because it's then there's a one-off once.
Every day, they come out of Daily Mail, so donate to us again.
And apparently they don't need as much money.
Anyway, Wikipedia member, somebody seems to be following along.
Yeah, about that.
I think it was a software freedom conservancy.
I actually had a checkbox when you donated, so please never contact me again.
And I was like, okay, now that you have actually put that box on your website,
and if you actually honor it, I don't remember if I checked it or not.
Then that actually would want me to make me donate again, because there's certain organizations
that continually beg for me for money.
And it's like, look, you're wasting your time, you keep begging me for money.
And I've already given you what I have chosen to give you this year.
And I usually do like a couple thousand dollars at the end of the year, just for tax reasons.
And it's like, look, you know, if you keep begging me for money over the course of the year,
I'm not going to give you that.
I usually pick a different charity.
Like, I've picked the free software foundation.
I've done software freedom conservancy.
I've done a software and a public interest, which is the devian charity.
And, you know, I usually rotate through them.
I think I did Jonathan NATO's charity, the accessible computing foundation one year.
On this show, even.
And I have found that like, I don't like being asked for that.
I have money.
I know that, you know, it's like, I know you exist.
And if I like what you do, I will give you the money.
But those fundraising drives are important.
It's just when you oversaturate somebody with requests, they become less receptive to you.
And a couple charities that I have donated to and become members of,
like the ACLU are just particularly bad at understanding that.
Yeah, well, yeah, I think I agree with that.
If they keep on pushing you to donate, you're slightly to do that.
And we want to know the topic.
But I see you both having certain comments in the chat.
And they, you know, dare I bring this topic up?
Well, I have a discussion.
Because I've actually had it all so far.
This is the discussion I have.
Dare I perhaps say this from Brexit as well?
I actually thought a bit of this, but I'm sure I'm particularly happy about all of that.
Brexit stuff.
Like who liked it, like love us.
Diesel.
Yeah, Brexit was a huge thing about, you know, like basically people were saying it,
like they didn't think their vote counted.
It's one of the biggest problems of what they call plebiscite democracy,
which is this idea that, you know, everybody votes, not just representatives.
It's, you know, democratic versus a republic.
That difference.
And, and Brexit was people thinking that their vote just didn't count.
And it counted.
Whether vote didn't count with the EU, you look,
there really isn't any lawmaking body that has any control by the voters.
Right, but I'm talking about the British commoner, like the British people inside the
British government talking about how they didn't feel that their vote counted.
Maybe that the whole like Brexit thing was just an exercise in casting a vote,
and they didn't think it mattered what they voted for.
Yeah, I think that was partly the problem there as well, is that a lot of people who,
who normally wouldn't even bother voting, they, they do actually get a vote, and then they're very
deep. That was a good example.
There's somebody I know and I haven't met her, but I know how I'm lying for a few years.
And, um, from Wales, and she said, and I said once, what did you vote for?
And she was like, I voted leave.
And I said, why did you vote leave?
And she was like, oh, I did uni, mini, money, mo.
And then leave is the one that won.
So if she voted leave, which is, you know, if you kind of think if one person did that,
how many other people did that?
Basically voting just for the sake of it and not really, um, think knowing what they're doing,
really. And then, and then the votes were very close.
It was very close, but the most you won.
How are not in Scotland where Gordon is from?
I think he just come back to me, which is perfect.
And this cost, I think Scotland, they're very annoyed about, about this in general.
Well, that's the impression we get on the TV from their first minister.
And it will be interesting to see what Scott Gordon has to say about the whole, uh,
for Brexit thing. I think you just came back actually.
Can you say that people, a lot of people, uh, the voted to stay, didn't know voting for either.
They don't even know how the European Union works.
Yeah, um, the technical, I wasn't aware. I was just sort of not speaking.
How's my sound before I give any of you on the Brexit thing?
How's my sound? Because I'm not done judging by the settings of weeping in the settings,
and the chart thing, I've dropped my settings a little bit. How's that sound?
Sounds a lot better. Absolutely great.
Seriously, is that better?
Absolutely fine. Yeah, much better.
Right, do you want me to drop it around a touch again to see if I can improve it some more?
I think I've heard you're understandable now.
I think no, it's just your action.
Gordon, I think I'll be fine.
Sorry, I can't. I thought it was a night.
You can hear you fine enough.
All right, okay, so sound checks.
Oh, good, right. That's fine.
So I can get back to the alcoholic water and the polymer vodka mixed with orange,
and not worry about it, right?
Okay, I think you find the button, right?
Okay, on the Brexit thing, um, I voted to stay.
And that's not a vote and confidence of the EU.
It's just not, it's like, I don't know,
it's like there's a lot of things that while we're under the control of Westminster,
I think I would rather have some protection from the EU.
The EU is far, perfect.
It's really far from perfect.
I've not voted for a favour of that at all.
What I was happy to see in the results was the whole of Scotland, the entirety of Scotland,
all 100% of Scotland voted to stay in the EU.
So that's really, well, that's probably right, but yeah, most of Scotland.
Yeah, so it was kind of Thursday, Thursday in England,
what's most probably Thursday, probably 54, 55% to leave England,
and Wales sort of Thursday, Thursday, sort of 52, 53, what it's a leave in Northern Ireland,
it was kind of 50, 50 again, where it etched on voting to stay,
but in Scotland it was 100% the entire, the whole of Scotland voted to stay in the EU.
And that is, that is like, for me, the solid I'm taking from this is the fact that Scotland will
be independent within four or five years.
That's well, trigger another independence for Scotland.
That's, that's, that's the solid we're fighting for me.
So I don't, anyone can vote for whoever they want, that's democracy.
And it's going to be an independent,
it's going to be an independent member of European, which doesn't allow countries to be
independent anyway, so what's it for?
Well, that, that, that, this is a, the EU is a expansionist thing.
We want people to join, what countries to join.
So, and be it already aligned with the EU in terms of our laws and things like that,
so it's a nobody, and that's to be asked, it's a nobody.
And that's why I'm not all at all with the result.
Yeah, but the only thing with the independence vote is that apparently,
you know, Westminster has to agree to that, to go forward and she, you know,
she knows full well that if she says yes to that at the moment,
then it's probably going to be a, the Scotland leaving the UK,
so they would, you know, try and stop that from happening, as well as they can.
Well, that is true, that is true, however, and you look at that and say,
well, it's not as f, f, what, what we keep hearing in Scotland is that there's not that much
difference between the Scots and the English and the Irish and the Welsh, we're all broadly the same,
we're all broadly the same outlook in the world.
And in, certainly, I don't know about Northern Ireland,
but in, certainly, in England and Wales, you could argue that it's kind of similar,
that the parties that do well in one country also do well and rather,
and the same sort of, the Brexit votes, were kind of more or less very similar
between the two countries. In Scotland, that's not the case. In Scotland,
the UK parties have really struggled in the elections recently,
and the Brexit votes has been, has been, you know, we were 100 per cent,
the whole entire country voted to stay, whereas it was a very mixed vote in England and Wales,
and as far as contributor or taker, as far as I'm, as far as I'm aware, the, the, the oil
has been a net contributor to the UK, it's Scotland and London that make up the vast majority
of the, the contribution to the UK tax coffers.
Why does Scotland want to give up their independence to the European Union?
The difference, as I understand it, is where we are part of the UK, it's the UK of a
settlement of votes, for example, on fishing, the, the UK has a settlement of votes like whether
it is 21 or whether it is on any particular issue, and they have all the votes, whereas if
Scotland might have like five of those votes, so if we are independent, then we would have five
votes to vote in our own interests, rather than having Westminster use those five votes to add
to the other 16 or something like that that they've got. That's the difference, it's where
Scotland at the moment in the EU, we are at the, the children's table, where we can vote in
opinion, but as someone else that speaks on the other half, whereas in, as a member in our own
right, we can speak on the other half, that might not make much more difference, but in some cases
may. The UK has trouble standing up for its own interests, so I really, a lot of the other
countries do as well, so how will a small Scotland even have any chance? Yeah, that's very true,
that's very true, but at least, you know, like that, in some cases there's majority rules,
in a lot of cases, majority rules, and that's fine, I'm happy with that.
There's no Scottish jump to bring back Scottish nationalism, is there?
No, it's far as I'm aware, and I wouldn't have it either way. Scottish, the whole SFB thing
isn't about, and as I don't understand Trump's nationalism, it's about American,
as people born in America who believe in the American ideal, it's almost like,
I don't know if he's playing into the sort of white nationalist thing, but it's very America-fush,
where I see the SNP in Scotland, I have no party, but where I see that the Scottish national
party is about the people of Scotland rather than Scottish. The people of Scotland are,
as far as I'm concerned, as far as I can work out the SFB, believe the same,
is the people who have chosen to make their homes and make their lives in their futures in Scotland,
doesn't matter where they were born, doesn't matter what the skin colour, what their religion is,
if they've chosen to come to Scotland and make their lives here and raise their children here
and work here and benefit the economy here, they are the people of Scotland and that's who I back.
Yeah, I mean the SNP is basically Scotland, the people of Scotland first sort of party,
it's all about Scotland's interests, but it's not so much about who is actually Scottish,
who was born, I think I'll agree with this web here, anybody who lives in Scotland would be seen
as Scottish under the SNP as a bit basically, I think that's basically what Gordon's trying to say as well.
So I don't know about where you guys live out, but I pretty much figured out that right here in the
United States, our votes don't count anymore. Exactly, and I think that's the way that I look at it,
I was actually, I've set up a new website that I've not put any posts on yet, and all ones gone,
but I was, keep meaning to get around to putting a point off, this is waves, this is different waves,
one of them put trumpet and a power, and I'm not surprised, I'm really not surprised,
the Obama was elected on a promise or a pledge of change, hope of change, something different
from Bush, something like, there's going to be a new America, and then the people,
the American voters, democratic and republican thought we are sick to the back teeth of the same
old, same old, we will vote and this guy wants to do something different, we will give him a chance,
and he came in in 2008 and doubled down on all of the Bush stuff, all the stuff that the American
people didn't want, he is doubled down on, so he rose that hope, he rode that now wave of hope,
all the way in the White House, and then betrayed the people, so years later on in that,
you've got the, there's probably other steps in this that I'm missing out, but skipping forward,
you've got the, the Scottish and the Benders' referendum in 2014, where the UK, the English
establishment, the UK establishment wanted to keep Scotland as part of the UK, and it was supposed
to be an easy victory, and yes, it came so close to going the other way, followed by that,
you've got the the the turning off of the where Scotland always used to vote,
Labour MPs into the general election, that all changed, and we swept SNP and a power
representing Scotland in Westminster, and that was against the sort of UK establishment,
the next wave of that was where Labour put their new leaders out and their three
kind of establishment people, and then one left-wing oddball, and the public went with the left-wing
oddball, which was Jeremy Corbyn, and then the next sort of wave of populism was the anti-establishment
guy, was either Hillary Clinton, who is seriously corrupt, but that aside, she is full-on
establishment, US establishment, and the people said, you know what, we don't want establishment,
we've had enough of the establishment, we want something different, and the only thing that
was different initially, it looked like Sanders and Trump, but Sanders was always going to be
stretched up, so the only option they had was Trump, and that's why that's why Trump's getting
the power, so if we want something different, they need something different, that's the whole thing.
I hear you, but what I found out is that, you know, every single president that we've had here
in the United States, with exception of one president, are all related to the same exact
king way back in England, and then Obama wasn't really a natural born United States citizen,
trying to say that he was born in Hawaii, that's a bunch of bullshit, his birth certificate is a fake
birth certificate, and Obama was born in a US territory at the time, it's the same reason all
Puerto Rico people are considered citizens of the US, because Puerto Rico is a US territory,
this is before Hawaii became a state, this birth or crap is bullshit. I wanted to jump back to the
other thing, where you were talking about how Obama came in on hope and changed Gordon,
if you've ever seen a YouTube video look up, it's called Candidate Obama versus President Obama,
they take the two statements and put them against each other, and it is striking how different he
started. I agree with you, I totally agree, and that's my point, is the fact that he ran for president
on this change agenda, he promised he was the candidate of change, and then once the people
bought into that and said yes, we'll be back, give us change, give us something different,
we will give you a vote, we put you in a power, and then at that point it suddenly became
the same as Bush, so I totally agree with you, I saw so agree with you, and that's my point,
is the fact that he promised one thing, and he was elected on that one thing, and then he turned
out to be just the same as before. And to go to another point, the whole reason the 13th amendment was
there, I think it's the four candidates, whatever one it says, you're born here, you're a citizen,
was to clean up after the whole slavery debauchable in 1865, I think Canada has a similar
if you're born here, you're a citizen policy, and it's causing problems for them too, I don't think
the current model is sustainable, but it's the lava land, and so if you're going to change it,
you have to do that through the constitutional process.
You can't just introduce it in the 60s, but that extradition was introduced in the 60s,
and I understand a little bit later for you, in where?
In the US, the way that I call it, the right to be, if you're born in America, you become
a citizen, I thought that was introduced much later, more recently.
No, it's the 1860s, it was right after slavery.
What's the name of it?
It's the 13th amendment to the US Constitution, I think it's the 13th, let me look.
Anyhow, what you do, this is what you do, number one, find out exactly how old
President Obama is, and what his birthday is, okay, then you take and you subtract that
from the year right now today, and then you check out, you look at all the birth certificates
within about three months before he was born, and three months after he was born,
that came out of that same hospital, that same city, and I'll tell you what,
Hills does not match the others.
It's the 15th amendment.
As far as I'm led to believe, obviously, I'm not American,
but as far as I'm led to believe, the whole Obama-Borther thing came
from Clinton's team when she was running against Obama in 2008,
that was the origin of that, and then the Republicans just ran with it.
Obama won the Candaceate of the Democratic Party in 2008, when I wanted to come
President, and the Republicans summed up round with it in the hopes that they would get something out of it,
but it turned out to be complete ballots, it was just, it was nothing, it was absolutely nothing,
and it became originated from Clinton.
Anyhow, logically, I look at things like this, if every single Salterate President
since the beginning has been related to the same king, all with the exception of one,
that's telling me that the next president we get is going to be related to that king also,
so we don't have a choice, see?
Which hashtag do minority confirmed?
Which king?
Just a second, I'll find out.
What do they call it in the US when you deliberately try and have a baby,
and you get your baby born there so that get Americans citizenship?
The slang is anchor, baby.
I agree.
Oh, so yeah, thanks.
This is definitely, it's a pretty big thing with more wealthy Chinese now.
Rations too.
Mexico, Mexico.
But on a slightly lighter note, but on the same subject, I happened to spot a series on the
history channel, it was something about the American President, about 13 episodes series,
it took you through all the way through from the first President Washington,
all the way through to Obama, and that was fascinating, that's absolutely fascinating.
I knew about a little bit Washington, mostly about Lincoln, and then Nixon,
and then the kind of modern big guys like Bush and Obama, whatever.
But that was fascinating, learning things about Jackson and all these people,
and yeah, it was where things like where they moved from New York,
as the capital to Washington, and where they had the idea of the Vice President taking over,
the Presidency, and all the kind of precedents that were set during the different years,
and that was a fascinating series, a 13-part series on the history channel, and it was amazing,
even as a form of that was amazing.
Oh, that King was John Lacklin.
Yeah, this King, I think I've never had this before, so I think if that is true about the King,
that sounds a lot of sound like some interesting general knowledge, I guess.
But yeah, it sounds interesting.
And I know that everybody's got their own problems and everything like that,
but what really bothered me a long time ago is I found out that the Queen of England
is not really the legitimate heir to the throne, that there's a guy that's an all-street,
that's actually the legitimate heir.
There's a guy named Francis named Louis Barbon, and people think he's descended from the kings too,
it doesn't change France.
Yeah, I know, so there's a guy in France that thinks he's descended from Jesus Christ,
I guess we all should have had our hands or something.
Yeah, I think the British monarch is up until sort of a hundred years ago maybe,
this was basically a German monarchy, and they had German names, and then obviously,
when Britain went to war and the Great War, with Germany, they thought, you know what,
maybe not a good idea if we were called, like if our surnames were German,
so maybe we should change their name and then they decided to pick one's off.
And then it sucks glitter.
Yeah, that sounds a bit right.
Yeah, personally, I have no time for, I am one of those people who are proudly Republican,
but that's not as an American political party, or that's in, I do not have any time for a monarchy
or a royal system, and I do not officially care for anything that Jesus sees, Jesus is getting here.
Yeah, I know, tell me about it, and I can see that there's sort of flashing on my screen here.
Um, well, yeah, I mean, I don't know how you look at it with the British system, the whole
idea of having a royal family is not as violent as it once was, or it's still as violent,
I really don't know how you look at it, because it's mostly just a government.
Yeah, for me, I mean, I do logically, I accept that I get a clean in the market, well,
but me personally, I have no queen, I have no king, I will never have a queen or a king,
I don't give a shit who's in charge of backing up as a rival, I do not respect a title that's
it by birth, I just don't, I'm all a bit of meritocracy, and from that perspective, I am a Republican.
Yeah, I'm not going to label myself, I'm just going to say that I'm an independent,
uh, I'm a little bit of everything, so I'm independent, you know, uh, all that video right there,
in that video, you'll see who the real air is to the throne of England.
Yeah, yeah, although Gordon, I was just thinking, um, the queen and all that, it's really the
queen of England, isn't that? Although, uh, saying that as well, they also have their like,
going with the Canadian, um, head of, well, there's like a link, isn't that?
What does this still means of being Canada for Grandpa?
Yeah, I think there's a lot of the, the reason why I
were refuted, right, so I'll go back a bit, when it came to the Scottish referendum, the
Scottish independence referendum, 2014, I had not even considered whether I was Scottish or British,
not an economy, I was just like flutter caught in one or the other, and once I started thinking
about it, I realised I was Scottish, I'm not British, I'm never British, I am Scottish,
and the reason for that is I do not associate myself with things that associate themselves
with the Union Jack, with the British flag, things like the past two, three hundred years of
colonisation, of slave trading, of abuse, of, you know, taking over different countries,
of thinking we have the right to control and decide who leads other countries, and all that can
stop. That's the things that come from, that can have the Westminster thing, um, that, uh, that come
from, that come from that, and it's like, that's not me, I am not that person. For me, I'm looking at
the ideals of what the Scottish Parliament, and what the Scottish Government want to be, is like,
we want to be a country with, happy within our own rights, we want to work with other people,
and respect other people, and all that, that was where I came from. So, yeah, so the idea of,
um, of the whole, can I slave the whole history of the flag, and the whole history of that is just,
I don't, I don't agree with at all, and a lot of that's establishment of, um, you know, of what,
what is British values kind of thing. Yeah, but I love countries have, I have bad history
anyway, not just Britain in that sense, but what I was going to say is, uh, I would say I'm more,
you're a pain than, wait, actually, I'm half Swedish as well, so actually even Sweden, but lived in
England most of my life. So, but I always say I'm more you're a pain than anything else,
um, plus I'd like to go into your, anyway, I did, like, here's the main act of you're up, going
somewhere. But you don't have to be in the European Union to go to Europe to you, that's another
line of dollars, or to, uh, use other people's money, you know, via a line. Well, to get back to
that whole, like, you know, that I'm, everyone's all mixed up. It's like, yeah, well, also,
what was that, what was it, man, saying? Go ahead, I'll, I'll refer. Yeah, so I, I jump in
front of you, I'll be quick, but, you know, we, we don't have to be in the European Union to
still be in joy, be in European brothers and sisters to travel, to, to share and collaborate.
There, um, most people don't even know how the European works, um, or how it functions, or
what their motives are, or what the history of it is, you know, and before someone, I think,
Carl, Joel Gordon was talking about, um, Donald Trump, and, uh, it seemed that he'd been watching
too much mainstream news, which, uh, I'm concerned about who pays for and who funds that particular
mainstream news. Um, and if you can trust the, the bias of the slant, they, they put on whoever
think when they talk about Trump, then, uh, no wonder people think that he's a terrible,
white nationalist racist person, you know, and, uh, people just have trouble finding, or
don't have enough time to find, um, more useful news. Yeah. So, I'll, I'll jump, I'll, I'll
re quit that real quick. I'll jump back. The big thing is that now with the internet, we have
all this information coming at us, and there's really no good way to sit through it. We've lost a
lot of, you know, ways of doing people don't get taught critical thinking anymore. Um, to wit,
that the whole thing about all the presidents being related, it's like, yeah, um, depending on how far
you go up the family tree, it's amazing who's related to everybody else. Um, Ganges Khan has a genetic
marker on his white chromosome. Um, there are an estimated 175 million people with that genetic
marker, and that's just meant because it's on the white chromosome. So you have a ridiculous
number of people that are all related to Ganges Khan. The fact that, you know, if you, depending on
how far you're willing to go up a family tree and say, you know, I'm sure I'm close cousins with
a significant number of people here, um, due to the fact that half my family has been in this
country since the American Revolution, and the other half of this country, you know, my family is
three to four generations removed from being immigrants. So depending on where, you know, so,
you say, you know, some of you say, I'm mixed up here. It's like, yeah, well, I'm an American
melting pot, Heinz 57 euro trash, white boy. Um, if you have family anywhere in Europe or
Western Asia, I'm probably related to you in some way. So this idea doesn't pass muster that
all these presidents related to a king. It's like, yeah, probably because a good portion of the
population is not because it's deliberate. If you wanted to go all the way back, we'd all say,
hey, we're related because of like mitochondrial eve. Yeah, I think so much of America is really
founded on immigration. It's founded on so many people from the old world, from
Scotland, England, Ireland, Wales, wherever, and all come in America and becoming
over the generations, becoming American, becoming their own thing, the Italian Americans or Irish
Americans or whatever, then you guys have all got that kind of mixed heritage if you go back
enough generations. For me, I've always been curious. I mean, as far as I'm aware, my entire
heritage has been Scottish, but that makes me feel like less or to everyone else because like
everyone else has mixed heritage. Somehow, surely I must have something other than Scottish and my
bloodline, surely I must have. And I'll need to check into that one day because it feels like
like I'm missing out somehow, like I should be more than just what I am.
Don't fall for the multiculturalism, we all know who's been pushing that.
Well, we may really don't, but there's nothing wrong or maybe it's good for different species,
different clans or groups to have some kind of purity and to know what they're doing.
I wouldn't want my cows breeding with different species and then having a mixture between meat
and milk breeds and others, and over simplification, but there are differences between
different races of humans and a lot of people don't want to talk about that. They say,
oh, you're a racist if you talk about that, but we don't all need to be a bit of this and a bit of
that. Hey, if I'm hungry and there's a cow, I'm still going to be okay. Yeah, if you're a farmer
and you're trying to maintain a breed for particular reason, then you're going to chase off your
yearndy neighbor's brew, aren't you? I was going to say you are more than what you are, and I can
prove it that each and every one of us is a special, unique, individual, and here's my proof.
Okay. At conception, when a woman gets pregnant, you know, she's got this egg, right?
And all these little tiny sperm things go after that egg, right? Well, as soon as the first little
sperm enters that egg, all the rest of them take off and leave it alone. So that's unbelievable.
I mean, we're talking about millions and twins of these little sperm things, and only one got
into it and right away, all the rest left and left it alone. So that show is that we're each a
unique, special individual. You know, I don't know. I thought about doing, you know, you know,
I said a lighter subject, a slightly more comical subject. I thought about, you know, these,
when you're in the doctor's surgery and you're waiting for your appointment, you're a dentist or
whatever, and you see all these leaflets on the wall about different things, get checked out for
such and such. And I thought about my pregnancy thing, and the leaflet was called the little
sperm that could, as in the little horse that could, the one sperm that actually managed to make it to
the egg to fertilize the egg, the little sperm that could. Actually, that's funny. I don't know
about anybody else, but I'm exactly like all of you, except like I have a broken foot.
There reminds me of the train that said, I think I can, I think I can.
Yeah, I think that's where it came from. I knew it was something that was like,
that little train that could, yeah, that, that couldn't be it, but it was, it came from somewhere.
And let's talk about that one night thought, the little sperm that could, that's just so funny.
You know, recently I went to the doctor and I decided to get checked for something, you know,
and he was like, hey, good news, you're not pregnant, you're just fat.
Okay, so going back to earlier, what I want to say is that we, yeah, you don't have to be in the EU
to be European. You definitely don't have to be in the EU to be European. Switzerland is not
in the EU and there are no ways not in the EU and they're both European. And somebody said about
Trump and in the media and if you believe all that, well, in England, in Britain, we've, it's mostly
been, yeah, it's not been particularly good news about Trump this last year or so,
I've found the mainstream media. I had another point, but someone was, I think it was another point,
I guess it wouldn't be maddened. No, no, good carry on, I only wanted to interject you, you came
with your other point, sorry. No, I thought there was a third thing that I was not going to say,
but I don't remember now if there was, I don't mind them. To take facts, you could do much worse
than taking work at media. I found Breitbart really interesting, doesn't anyone else read that?
I mean, at Breitbart.com, a news website, or do people consider that propaganda?
I put the link in the thing, it's easier to write and move for me to say.
I think about what could be, there's got multiple references and a cross-checked and
and, you know, I suppose there's got multiple people writing, and anyone's making it to write
for people. And the references are checked, they're in the same way, so probably a bit more robust
in some of the other texts, I suppose, but I don't know about that site that was previously mentioned.
CNN is good if you like Clinton. Those colleges won't allow Wikipedia references and papers.
Yeah, but there's still an awful lot better than one independent site, which is, you know,
it's far more trustworthy than something like that, it's going to be independent, you know.
I view it as good for scientific or technical things, but anything that's got a political aspect
to it is going to have issues on Wikipedia.
On anyone. Not really, because surely there can be independent references from all different
sources, anybody's free to write anything, but it's cross-checked to make sure that it's valid and not
false news. Take a look at the methods that they use on Wikipedia a little bit. I think you
get a little more faith in that system than that is warranted. There's a lot of politics that are
played, and there's a lot of power demonstration that goes on within that system, and I think it
squishes a lot of stuff. If you don't have power, you can't edit in the people that have power,
or it's there. I'm not sure about politics on Wikipedia, like how accurate that is,
but the text stuff is usually okay, I think. That's for editing Wikipedia, I think it's a point
now that only certain people can edit it, it'll keep their changes on Wikipedia. Like if you're
a guest, they put it in front of your changes back, and I guess you might have to register
to edit it properly, but I think there's a lot of that, probably actually, that you didn't change.
We'll go back, they will not stay here even if you haven't done that before.
Yeah, I want Wikipedia, there's a lot of hot topics, really hot topics that the admins have
to sort of walk down on because you've got, like Israel, Palestine, and another is one,
like George W. Bush or Tony Blair, or whatever, there's a lot of really contentious
subjects on Wikipedia that they have, they're people, fiercely, fiercely, sort of pro one side or
another, and it seems to be their passion and their job to sort of set the record one way or
another. So I mean, for me, I think at Wikipedia is a starting off point, that's my general overview
of a subject, and then from there, I explore other things, it gives me an overview and
explores, it lets me jump off to other things to sort of learn about it.
Correct, it's a great starting point, the point is that there may be information missing,
but the general, there won't be false information because the references are checked at the point.
There's, you know, biasness and misinformation, or not being as specific as might be possible,
you know, I would say just looking at any source of information, whether it's bright bar, BBC, CNN,
Wikipedia, just to all of us, I'm sure that we follow even sources we disagree with to see
how they tell the story, and so the more sources you can look at yourself, then the less
any particular bias, even if you love Trump and you only want to listen to pro-Trump stuff,
it's good to listen to the opposite side, and then to try to judge and find the hidden
path in between the lines. If you've got a particular bias, you might tend to head to the wrong
site, at least with Wikipedia, you're getting at a whole varied range of references. I mean,
agree absolutely, you should be looking on research as well, obviously.
Obviously, when you're looking at anything online, like you're at the bottom, sort of degree level,
study of something, if I think of something like Napoleon, for example, I love Napoleon Bonaparte,
I've got so much time for Napoleon Bonaparte, he's not perfect by any stretch of my attention,
but I would look at him and say, like, what is his story. Now, look at that and use Wikipedia as
a jump-off point and say, what happened during this part, what happened during that part,
and you're looking at different things and trying to figure out, like, yeah, okay, this, this
individual or this organisation may have a reason to have a bias against them, so they're for
trying to paint, I'm on a different light, but you cannot get an idea generally, you need to look
at a lot of different things and try to figure out where the truth is, and I think Wikipedia is
a wonderful, going to a starting point, it's a really good starting point to get an overview
and then sort of spider off from there. So the BBC isn't our go-to source of information
in the UK anymore, have they published anything or had any in-depth reports on the Pizza Gate,
yet, or anything like that, the Peter Fillier in the UK or America?
I would consider the BBC as that much of a delay, though, social news, but it's first of a way
to know what they have and not with Pizza Gate, no. Ah, now that surprises me.
Now, I've only heard Pizza Gate, like, quickly and passing, can some give me a quick summary there?
Right, the broad, as far as I understand it, the Pizza Gate thing is the allegation, and I stress
allegation that somehow there was a pizza restaurant or fast food place, and I believe Washington,
but I could be wrong, where underage, not miners, like boys and girls, were being essentially pumped
out as prostitutes to wealthy individuals that politicians or business people, whatever wealthy
people, and that was the allegation that this was going on, and that somehow the Clintons were
involved in this, I don't know how, I don't know where the connection was, that they either knew
about it, or their donors, or their bastante there, and yeah, the allegation was that it was
an underage, essentially a brothel happening at a pizza restaurant, if you were in and said the
right things, then you would get access to their back rooms, which contained underage people,
being forced, and that's sex slave, that's actually, that's my understanding.
Yeah, for now, look at Wikipedia and the references to that, that's a good starting point.
Yeah, that's for, the only additional I heard, it wasn't that the pedestrian leaked emails,
there were some emails that the two brothers that sent back was in forwards,
reference in Pete 7, and cream cake, or something like this, and these are well-known
code words that Peter Files used to describe different things, I don't want to be too specific,
because he's really bloody sick, that's what I'd heard, or listen to.
You know, for a name like Pizza Gate, that is a very dark subject, for such a
light sounding sort of title there. You know, what I have an objection to in terms of,
this is going to sound bizarre, I do sort of forward that, what I have an issue is with the idea
of attaching the word gate onto any kind of scandal, I've got to assume that everyone here
knows where the name gate comes from. Yeah, it comes from Watergate. Yeah, and exactly,
and what was Watergate? What was the point of Watergate? It was a wiretapping scandal.
Yeah, and the name of the hotel was called Watergate, had nothing to do with gate,
it was the fact that Watergate was part of the title of the hotel, it was called Watergate.
So, seriously, I mean, why attach the word gate onto anything, as in no sense, water,
or whatever, that's pointless. I mean, quick interruption, we missed it by about eight minutes,
happy New Year's to Greece in 30 more, including Cairo Athens, Bucharest and Johannesburg.
Happy New Year. Happy New Year, yeah, it's 5 online PM here, it hasn't got New Year's yet.
I understand a big criticism was the kind of artwork that the Patesta brothers have
at their homes as well, which really sounds and looks pretty sick. Oh, I remember, yeah, Finland will
be in 2017 as well, then, Helsinki and Finland, yeah. Yeah, and on the thing with scandals,
like I get why different things are a scandal, that's completely independent, that's totally fine,
but calling it a gate, something gate, I have a serious objection to calling it something gate,
beats a gate, it's like it's not a gate, gate was watergate, it was part of the name of the hotel,
that was why it was called watergate, don't, don't attribute that to anything else.
So, sorry, the main problem is that this is a low quality meme created by the old media,
and maybe when they'd be finally retired then, these kind of crass words which have no relevance
will be retired, and we can say something more meaningful, you know, that's just a tired old phrase
that they keep using. Scandal requires two syllables, it takes more to say, therefore, gate is faster.
I mean, I do agree with you, Gordon. It just seems to me it's one of those, like, it's supposed to be
you know, more hip for people now, it's attention grabbing, that's why they do it, it's stupid.
Yeah, definitely it's stupid, the whole point of, well, I don't want to repeat myself,
but yeah, the whole point of watergate, that's the name of the hotel, that was why it was called
watergate, nothing to do with the water, it was the name of the hotel was watergate, that was the
whole point, so just like quit it, like seriously quit it, treat it as if it's something, something,
something, something dignity, just quit it. It's not possible, you're talking about the mainstream
media accordion, they can't treat us with any intelligence, they don't have much themselves.
Well, there is that, there is that. But yeah, essentially that's what the pizza quote gate
unquote was all about, but yeah, the bizarre thing was the the views of that, the guy that
went into that particular pizza restaurant with a gun, I don't know what quite happened
apparently held the staff up and demanded access to behind the scenes, assuming he was going to
find some children that he was able to free at gunpoint or something, I don't know quite what
happened with that. The backstory on that's pretty interesting, he actually is an actor.
Also, this was a publicity stunt, was it? We don't know for sure, but it doesn't look real
solid. Was it child above acting crazy again?
My last update on that from what I picked up was, it was this guy who read rightly or wrongly
whatever he believed that he was doing the right thing, and he went into this pizza restaurant
with a gun and demanded access to the sort of the staff only areas, expecting to find
underage people that were held as sex slaves and they were able to free them. It was trying to do
the right thing, albeit from bullshit information, that was my understanding and then because he
went in there with a gun, the cops were called and he was arrested and so on.
So we've just got a hope that Soros and his assistance and funding will shut down the fake news,
have we? Anybody know where I can get the 48-0 Colonel?
Hatch Linux. You're answer to everything is Hatch Linux.
I mean he's not wrong. It is the right answer here.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just getting slack well or do you know? Because yeah.
Funding off on the subject of Hatch Linux, I took me so long before I decided,
you know, I tried Hatch a long time ago and I never managed to install it properly and I thought
you know what, took me a long, long time and I thought you know what, so that I will try
antegross and antegross and I could not get installed, I could not get it, I believe me I could
not get installed and again lack of patience, I thought you know what, I can't, I don't have
time for this, I can't be bothered, I'll go back to what I know, which is Ubuntu and Mint and
Debian whatever and arguably I would like to have, I'd like to be sitting here with my think
part wanting antegross, antegross, but I tried, I really tried, I honestly tried and I could not
get it working with non-stop and I don't know what I did wrong. It might just be because once
when I installed antegross and that's what I used, you know, I've done the manual Hatch Linux
years ago and I know how to do it for speed antegross, it's just wonderful. It might just be,
there was one point where they had one of the desktop installations that got messed up and it
wouldn't work for me and I just downloaded a different version and it worked fine. I would definitely
give you another go board and I can't believe that you're such low, low ability that you couldn't
manage to follow a few clicks and if you can get a Ubuntu work and if you can use Ubuntu,
antegross is no problem and you might really like Hatch Linux and also antegross now allows you to
install directly to ZFS as well, it has ZFS integrated into the installation if you want to try it.
Yeah and funnily enough it was the ZFS thing, that was the point where as soon as I heard that was
built into the installer, that was the kick-up, that was what made me think, you know what, I've
really got to give this a go and antegross is the first one, Hatch made easy, yes, that suits me
them, they're going I am not what people think of as a geek, I'm not, I just want things to work,
that's why I clock for the easy things, I like it to be customizable but I want it to just work,
I can't be bothered, but first and I don't try to figure out anything I'm working,
I figured antegross is ideal for that and I tried that, I'll need to try it again, I'll
be able to try it again, but I've had it once and a limited time I had at the time, I thought
this isn't just, this is not working for me at all, you know, I'll go back to what I know,
which is the Ubuntu Deb site, the crunch buying, the Debian Ubuntu site.
But if any of you need the installer, go ahead Hunky.
I've tried antegross before and I've had mixed experience too and the installer, it's called
Sensi, C-E-N-C-I, I believe, it's kind of flaky, I've noticed, and I think I've heard other people
talk about it as well, being a little bit flaky, so it sometimes will work and like Dude Man said,
maybe just download a different version of it and give it a shot, but there's also like,
Majero was really good and I tried a while ago an Arch Builder, I forget the name of it now,
if you give me a few minutes, maybe I'll try to look it up, but there's an Arch Builder,
which is basically just like a bash script that walks you through step by step like a straight
Arch install. It's not a difficult thing to follow the script, see, but just give yourself a
good few hours and relax at it and it's actually quite interesting and you can just copy and paste,
the important thing is just to have two computers next to each other or something,
and it's a good learning experience if you enjoy that kind of stuff and at least you know a bit
more how to use your computer, but I wanted to quickly mention, if you're thinking of ZFS,
seriously, I was getting really into ZFS, I had four big disks with a stripe across
more ZFS, whatever it's called as IPOL, but I actually just ditched it recently, moved over to
a snap rate and merger FS, if anyone's heard about those, but it's much more flexible for just
adding and removing single disks, and if any single disk or even if multiple disks in the array
fuck up, you only lose the date which is on the single disk, it's really fascinating how it works,
it's I'm very impressed by it. I think for me it was week after week after week of listening to
Alan Jude on Texna, waxing lyrical on ZFS and thinking at some point eventually it was like
it's like, I don't know what it's like, the rain that keeps hitting at the top of the teepee
and then eventually after so long the rain eventually breaches that the fabric of the teepee
it comes through the other side, it's like it's talked so much about ZFS and so how good ZFS
that eventually my brain thinks you know what ZFS I probably should be trying to use that,
how can I use ZFS, like PCBSD, yeah I tried that, it didn't quite work for me because it didn't
give enough time, what's the one exception because that's where my familiarity is until gross,
right, and that was what tempted me, it didn't quite work, so I agree with the idea of having
like two machines, so one you can sit and work on and the other you've got able to get online
and check through online documentation and things like that and figure out what commands you need
and install and whatever, that definitely helps. The first thing I tried at Arch, I didn't have
that, I just had the one machine and if I couldn't get it working I had no choice but to go buy
it to something that I could get it working, now I've got much more options and arguably I should
be more prepared, it's just a case of having more time to sit and do it which I've got a list
of these days. Just with ZFS I'm not empty ZFS at all, I know it really well because I've been
using it intensively, it has just a small home serving, I'm not any expert, but just bear in mind
I believe it's for every terabyte date you need one gig of RAM, I think that's right,
and it's slowed down and there are alternatives for more static data which is like things like
snap rate and other stuff like that and it is a little bit of an overkill for a home small
mass server, you know and I perhaps learned that the hard way, it's not cheap if you want to then
upgrade a disk pool because you need to replace all of the disks at the same time, they need to be
of an equal size if you want to replace the disks or to create a new pool and there are more flexible
methods which I've discovered, so that's my only comment or criticism of ZFS but I use ZFS on
root partitions and for the snapshot inability before I do upgrades which I like.
I might have to start playing with ZFS.
All right, so it was called architect Linux, the thing to be able to, it's just a bunch of
scripts basically that'll give you a bare bones arch system. Is it architect and pack bank Linux?
I haven't not sure what the pack bank part of it was and that just kind of showed up what it's
basically all it is is like an end curses display that kind of walks you through the steps of
choosing things for a basic arch Linux install and then it does the install and you've given the
bare bones arch system. I'm not sure what the pack thing was because if you're not given like
any sort of desktop environment or anything unless you choose it during that walkthrough install.
Yeah, I think that's probably the name. I mean, the great thing about, well, I like arch Linux but
you can export a list of all your packages and they're not any new install, just feed pack man
of the list of all your packages and you'll install them all as previously, you know.
Well, you can do that with synaptic on how does that occasionally?
I've for years I've jumped back and forth between Ubuntu, Debian, Mint and Crunchbank and all those
cases you can export that package list as I believe as an XML file. It could be wrong but I think
it's an XML file and it just tells synaptic like this package is installed, this package isn't installed
and it goes through and changes all that so you can import that XML file. I think that's the same
thing. I've done that using the deep package dash dash get selections and then to restore it on
a new system, deep package dash dash set selections and then in the install, so we're going to the
app get with the dash dash select. It usually works except when repositories between different
distributions are different and the package names aren't the same. Yeah, you are relying on that,
the package names are the same and they are in the variables but beyond that, I mean, that's
something I guess you can really predict but beyond that, yeah, you're looking at an easy way
or what I used to do, well, I had a script, just a simple SSH thing and I'm not a code on
my any means at all. I just had a simple text file that pseudo-app get install in the various apps
that I used and anything I would install. So that's them, I would run that SH space and then that
file name and that would install whatever the apps that I used to have installed before. That was
my way around about that. You have a line on that, the reports having those same apps.
You might not be the same versions of those apps but yeah, for the most part, yeah, you can
have those apps. The same can happen on Arch Linux, of course, you know, if you leave it too long
before you pre-emport the packages, some packages could change names or stuff like that, so I'm
sure they pretty equal the two systems. I like Arch just because I don't have to remember this
new stupid name that Ubuntu comes up with. Yeah, I mean, Selma, I like the idea of Arch,
but I really do. It's something that I, there's something about Arch that I'm definitely drawn to.
It's the two or three times, I mean, I've tried Arch Linux that I tried, so
and I have failed miserably. I have tried Antigrups, where I have also failed miserably,
it just didn't install and it's just, I like the idea of Arch, but for some reason Arch
has never quite worked for me. It's one, something that I think I honestly, I should be on,
I'm not sure what KDE, I'm all in on KDE these days, I'm so plasma, I'm totally plasma,
all my machines are garbage. Yeah, you know, I tried Antigrups one time, but for some reason,
I just could not wrap my head around that, and the first time I tried Manjaro, I couldn't get
installed. The last time I was considering Manjaro, I was thinking LXDE, but then I didn't have
an LXDE, so I just walked away. And what was it that didn't make sense? Some interested,
what you couldn't get your head around. It was just too extremely different from what I was used to.
Well, the package installation staff, or what part was different, because surely it's got all
the same apps, hasn't it? Now the menu and everything, the desktop. Why didn't you pick a desktop,
which was the same that you used, because all the desktops are available, you can install anything.
I just couldn't get used to it for some reason. They do have an LXDE version. They have
down here the bottom of the download page is one that asks for you can get other desktop
environments, and then it's got a big list of like enlightenment and other none. I don't think
they're officially supported. They're like other people are maintaining it, they're not one of
the official blends of it, but they are available. That's just the installation. I mean, with the
voucher or Linux, specifically arch, you can just install any kind of desktop you want. So,
if he's eye-free, any of those things, you can install. What I love about archer, I'm not trying
to sell archer, I just like archers. I like it because the documentation or the wiki is very up
to date, and if there's anything you want to find out how to do the arch wiki, it's always for
the current version, and all you've got to do is maintain yourself with the current version,
and then the stuff in the arch wiki is relevant, whereas with other stuff, you know, you've got to
look which version of a bento am I using, and at the end, these are the instructions for that
version or this version to help with bloody versions. Just just give me whatever the current
settings are, you know. Hello, MZ. Yeah, go on. Yeah, what are you guys talking about?
Politics, computers, your name? Well, we're all loving on plasma and KDE. Yeah, see them at a KDE
loving, unless in that room, it's unbelievable. But plasma love, we just can't get a plasma.
I thought we were talking about how Trump is going to make America great again, and the whole world.
Oh, what about invite president, here's peace.
Well, I'm running a corolla with the GNOME 3 interface, which I would like.
Yeah, so the odd thing is, for the last six or maybe seven years, I came to Linux in 2007
with PC Linux OS, which is an off-short of man dreamer, I think, or mandrake, possibly.
So I came to Linux as KDE from the Windows side, and from then on, I used to think of
the GTK at that time as being like, okay, it's like, it's like toy. It's not a proper computer.
And then I, but after a few years, I came to a tried XFCE, tried lots of different things,
and I came to realize GTK was, that was the business GTK was, like, that's what a proper computer was,
particularly, particularly XFCE. I loved XFCE. I absolutely adore the XFCE.
That was my very first love as XFCE, but today it's LXDE all the way.
Matter of fact, I tried PC Linux OS, not too long back, a community LXDE edition,
and I almost was able to get used to that, but unfortunately it was too buggy for me.
Yeah, I mean, well, that's where I came from, is my, I kind of fell into the Linux world,
as GTK, as XFCE, and from me, that was where all of my focus was, was on, it took me a while to
realize that actually, no, it was quite good as well, and other things like GTK and whatever,
and that was the time when KDE was going through its whole transition from 3.54,
and it took me a long, long, long time, until probably two or three months ago, where I gave GTK,
KDE on our chance, and what, oh my god, where has this been?
Look, KDE 5 Plasma is amazing, it's absolutely amazing, I had overlooked this for so long,
it's amazing, so that's been my, I've worked completely through stuff, I'm back to KDE now,
but with no reservations whatsoever, I'm totally KDE now.
Right, let's check it out. Yes, I'm using Glowm free at the moment on this laptop,
but what I want to say is, that's interesting that, see, what I've just called,
actually used PC Linux OS, because I remember Welfare was waiting for
actual magia 1 release back in 2010-2011, I was using, I thought, I'm going to get PC Linux OS
a good try, because it's probably really good, so I put it on on the computer, and I was
generally very happy with that distro, just, I just have everything, it just outwards, you've got
some active data, even if it's an RPM distro, it, where it looked, I think it was even using Glowm
back then as well, not just KDE. What I next more recently is that they seem to have dropped Glowm
to have KDE, they have, I think, XFC and LXD, but I definitely do Glowm anymore, which is a shame,
because Glowm is actually quite nice, but PC Linux OS, otherwise is a good distro, it works,
it's running release, it's quite a good, it used to be based on Android, ManRate, back in
town free. Why LXD over XFC? I'm interested, Brom, what's the advantage? Why LXD, or LXQT maybe,
I think it, well, everything, I think it, yeah, I think it's LXD, Brom, LXD over XFC, LXD over XFC,
that's a new favourite, I'm just wondering why. That's from my favourite, but what you're saying,
why would people use XFC or LXD over XFC, they both, I think they're very, I don't know,
really, I think they're very similar actually. In theory, and I stress the words in theory, LXD is a
lightweight desktop environment, whereas XFC is as a media weight desktop environment, where I
got it, I think in theory, I have found that for me, that for my personal tests, XFC is by far
like, by a long, long stretch, that is the best GTK desktop environment that I could possibly go,
I love KDE now, I love Plasma, Plasma 5, all machines are Plasma 5, if I go back,
if I switch to the other side, to the GTK side, it's XFC, all the way, absolutely XFC, just
without hands down, it's XFC and that is a media weight, it can be lightweight, depends on how it's
done, it can be quite heavy, depends on how it's done, but LXD, that's the difference,
generally speaking, XFC is kind of a medium weight, LXD is lightweight.
I think he was asking me what I would take LXDE over XFC, and the simple fact is LXDE uses a lot
less resources, a lot lighter weight, plus I can do anything to it that I can do with XFC.
Does he do any kind of tiling of windows around, you know, keyboard shortcuts to tile windows
into the corners, or put them next to each other? Well, I can theme it, put different icons on,
different wallpapers on it, I can even put a little wallpapers switcher up on my panel.
So you can move windows with keyboard shortcuts to get them to tile in the corners,
or up on the top, or to line up stuff like that, you can't do that. Well, I don't really care
about that keyboard shortcut stuff, I mean, some of the keyboard shortcuts things are nice,
but, you know, just for what the keys are normally meant for.
What I think is, well, yeah, LXD is probably more lightweight than XFC, that's probably true,
but XFC would probably do a bit more, but I mean, even Mate or Mate, you know,
you're still going to living on, but even that can be pretty lightweight and lightweight enough,
got my mom's laptop from the 2005, works quite well there, and I only had, yeah, take it,
well, I'm going to go right around and go, I'm going to take it right around, but...
Well, Mate is something or mate, is something I would put very much
in the same bracket as XFC, there's not a whole lot of difference in terms of,
like efficiency or whatever, I mean, you could flip a coin and you could judge them either way,
I think, both pretty much about the same, it just depends on what you like to use. I prefer,
out of the two of those, I prefer XSE, I've been used to XFC, I think XFC is more customizable,
but in terms of resources, yeah, pretty much, you'll flip a coin as good as the other,
in terms of how light XFC you can be, where I think it wins, as if you've got something that's
really light and really lean, you can make it as light as it can possibly be, you can put it
something like less than, you know, whatever it's like, open box, kind of flip to block,
kind of territory, you can have a whole best of environment running in such a small
amount of RAM that it's unbelievable that nothing else can compare to, you can have a full
better environment in XSE running with so little resources that it's unbelievable, that's,
I mean, I love XSE, I do, I use KDE now on all machines, but I love XSE, I really do.
I'm running that. I'm running that.
Make XSE being customizable. I mean, yeah, again, probably XSE can actually do more than
Nate really, but if there's something about the way you customize it from what I remember,
I've never really got on so well with any of that, so I always would go back to
Glowmit at that time, Glowmit too, or than Nate, but that's for things being really lightweight,
yeah, I mean, you can take out loads of things, make a really lightweight, although yeah,
open box, from when I've tried all of it really is, you know, it's just the back screen,
and there's no, not leaving the background, you might click, you've got a right click menu,
and that's about it, that's what I see over the edge for.
That's the advantage, so you're seeing that as a downside, how are you?
Well, there's a downside, I see it as, well, that's just very, very, very basic,
like the most basic thing there is pretty much, which can be okay, if you want to quickly
look at the program, that's it.
There's my man, running open box, there's a big, running open box, there's my man,
right, not, I'll defend open box, I love crunch bang, I absolutely love crunch bang, it's no longer,
I love crunch bang. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, open box, as, as,
there were two people at my Linux user group who used to be good, who were all into crunch bang,
plus they've been old camp, so I've been there with the guy who used to, who made crunch bang,
stuff like that, but I just remember the people before that, and they were like,
oh, cramp, open box crunch bang, and then you try open box out yourself, and you realize,
oh, it's all is, is what I just said, but that's fine, I mean, even that, if you want to
continue into the program, and that's it, you don't care about the graphical effects,
and I can do and all that kind of stuff, then it's, and that's kind of all you need, really,
you see the menus, and the way to open the program.
No, that's, that's the whole point of open box, is it is so light with, in terms of crunch bang,
it was the tint menu, which was super light weight in terms of RAM, there's nothing to it at all,
that's your taskbar, and then there's no possible way to add any menus onto the desktop at all,
which I love, I refuse to have any icons at all on my desktop, doesn't matter what environment,
I'm using Plasma at the moment, I have no menus at all, no icons at all on my desktop,
I will not have that in my desktop, that's with, with open box, it doesn't allow you to do that,
you need to go out of your way to actually have icons on your desktop, you update the menu items
yourself, so it's customizable, but it's, it's sort of forced, but in that way, I, I love open
box, I really love open box, it's like, it forces you to be manual, but it's so good, it's really
so good, I love open box, I really love open box. See, I have open box just because one, I don't want
icons to like, to really like change anything, it's just open a config file, put whatever you want
in it, go for it. Also, I really just don't need GNOME getting in my way, generally when I'm on
the desktop, which I am now for this, but I'm generally only using a web browser, dark table,
or the gap, that's pretty much it. I've got somebody else new here, KDG, he's from
Jupyter Broadcasting, and MZ was from Open Linux Community, and I'm from Open Linux Community.
Welcome. What is the Open Linux Community?
Oh, it's another Linux channel, just like Jupyter Broadcasting, just like Tuxbytes Linux.
Yeah, so one of the things, before, when I came to computing in like 2002, maybe 2003,
I came with Windows XP, and I absolutely hated the fact that any time you'd install a program,
it would throw an icon on the desktop, I hated that, it was all that's, I graded on me so much,
and when I came to Linux, I wanted the ability to control that, and every desktop environment
let me, they didn't automatically install that, whether it was Nome 2, or XFCE, or LXD, or KDE,
whatever it is, they didn't automatically add that on the desktop. So, the fact that any desktop
or any window manager that explicitly didn't have that functionality, that you could not
put an icon on the desktop, that was almost, it was almost like a reaction to that,
that I think, like open box, it doesn't have the ability to put a shortcut on the desktop,
that almost, I sort of treated that like, with a feature, not like something that was lacking,
where other people, if they're used to that, and they want the desktop on the icon, the desktop,
they see that as something that's missing, but I see that as a feature, not like...
I agree with you 100%, I think icons all over your desktop looks like shit, you know,
hey, I could, though I place my icons belong, is in the menu, or on the panel, or in the plank type thing.
Yeah, I mean, we're cleared windows, the desktop's all like ones, but you see windows,
screenshots, all over the internet, full fan pool, and all these desktop icons everywhere,
and there'll be five folks and certain common programs, but it's not about the programs,
about the icons, you know, all these icons everywhere, but it takes a feeling like, well KDE always
did put icons there, or not, well there would be for computer and the trash can, not so much for
programs, but there'll be a few icons there for that, but something like GNOME3 on the other hand,
that's always been about, well I know icons that on the desktop, they won't clean in that kind of
sense. Yeah, for me, I mean, for a lot of people that are on the opposite side of a lot of people,
a lot, the whole point of, the whole Microsoft, they'll call it a shortcut, is the idea of your brain
can think, I want to access X, therefore I'll click on X, it's easy to see, therefore I'll click
on it and it can launch quicker, that's the whole point. So what when it comes to, you know, when you,
clutter up the desktop, when you clutter up the menu, it basically means that you're slowing down
the time it takes for you to recognize what it is you're looking to click on to, to click up to,
to actually start the program, and that's, that's in part why I like my desktop for, I don't think
I've ever seen apart from a basic install, where I've yet to get the chance to spend the
two or three seconds and get on the menu and removing it, I don't think I've seen an icon on
my desktop for a good seven or eight years, possibly not other than the stuff at work, but I have
more control over that, I've got to just accept that, which is annoying to shout at me, but I've got
to just accept it, it's how it goes, my own machines where I can have control over, there's nothing
will ever be on the desktop of my computer, it doesn't matter what environment I'm running, what a
desktop, desktop, desktop environment I'm running, I don't care, I'm never going to have
icons on my desktop, let's just do that. Another one is a lot more windows, yes really, but, you know,
people don't, some people don't really save documents in my documents for older or the
equivalent if it still not supposed, and, you know, you end up with documents, or one had desktop
as well, not just icons, but actual files, which is a bit, which isn't that good either way.
Yeah, for me at work, I just get rid of that by maximizing all of the programs that I need,
so I never actually see the desktop where I'm working, and yeah, that's probably around the
budget, all of my controls outside of that, is locked down by the administrators, I mean, you've
got to be kidding me, looks seriously, you move, we've got to put it up with this shit, okay,
Phil, yeah, my whole point of that was the idea that any window manager or desktop environment
that gives you control and gives a clean desktop is something I'm interested in, as soon as
you start having, sort of automatic assumptions, you've got to build that desktop
into something that has icons on it, but that becomes a deal breaker for me, I don't want any
icons at all, like zero icons on my desktop, anything more than zero is too many.
That do you feel a bit like confirmation, like Conkey or something like that?
So run that past me again? A background information, processes and stuff running similar to what
Conkey does to provide you a heads up display on the desktop about the processes that are going
on on the computer. Conkey, yeah, that was one of the things that that's quite possibly the first
thing that I remove, or that I used to remove on crunch bank. I don't want that either, I just
want to play in desktop. I mean, granted that has valuable information on it, but that's one of
the things I've gone to the set up, the open box, well, when I used it on crunch bank, I would
go into the open box and stop Conkey running by default as soon as it starts, and then go in and
remove the .conkey RC file with the information on that, because that doesn't interest me either,
I just want to play in desktop. Now, forgive my possible ignorance, but I don't necessarily see
the purpose of seeing what my CPU usage is, and I can see what running programs there are,
I can't see what the purpose of seeing how much RAM I'm using at that moment, what that's
going to do for me. Maybe that's just me. My problem with something like that is you kind of start
to obsess over it, you'll be going, oh man, look at what like the GEMP is using, I'm using like 100%
of like two cores or something, and then you go, well, look how much RAM it's using, but why is this
using so much RAM? Why is this using so much process? And then you just kind of, it's a downward
like shame spiral. But really, the only things I have going with open box is Fef for a wallpaper
and the TENT 2 panel. I just stop checking any bank statements or checking to see what my wife
spent the tour, because I started to kind of get paranoid about how much money was being sent,
and I thought it was much better not to focus on where all the resources were going, you know,
and it was much better to be in ignorance. I'm doing multiple things on the computer at the
same time, for example, right now I've got the mumble screen open, but I'm also editing a bunch of
websites at the same time. And I'd like to know when I've reached the limit of the resources on
the computers, where I can, back on something, there's a couple of downloads going on, I'm
torrenting the KS computer club video files at the same time. So if things aren't working well,
I'd like to know where they're not working on, and the panel displays, I'm using Mateo with the
system monitor applet, temperature applet, and CPU frequency applet in the top part.
And when things go wrong, I can see that I've had lands and turn things off that I'm not
needing at that particular time.
As that not really, the way I look at it is, if you're coming across the limits of what
capable I can do, like your bandwidth, your computer, whatever it is, if you're coming across the
limits of what it can do, then it becomes relevant, but unless you're reaching those limits,
then it doesn't matter. If you're talking about the GIMP using 100% of your CPU,
as long as it's not impacting you when you're moving the cursor around, when you're changing
programs, when you're changing windows, when you're changing different things, when you're
clicking on different things, as long as it doesn't slow you down, as long as it doesn't
be a delay on different, click on things and it gives a delay on action, or as long as it doesn't
impact you, then what does it matter? The fact that it's taken 98% of your CPU, or 98% of your RAM,
or whatever, it doesn't matter, surely it doesn't matter because it's still doing the same
things and getting the same results. What matters is thermal output and battery usage,
I don't care if something takes all the CPU, but if it's going to kill my battery or overheat my
machine in the process, then yeah, now I have a problem. Otherwise, I don't care.
The other thing is that if I do hit a limit, I don't want to have to start going up the various
tools to tell me what might be wrong, I want to be able to see what's wrong at the time that
it's going wrong, and I work in pretty much the opposite thing, as long as I haven't reached
the maximum resources yet, I'm always contemplating what else could the computer be doing at the same time,
that's, you know, I don't think to pay direct attention to it, but that's going to be a background
process. So as long as I see that there's still resources available, I can optimize the use of
the computer that I'm running. I'd rather have one computer that's maxed out to having
three or four computers sitting around that are, you know, idling at 30% or so.
Stop. Bob, you, sir, are using your computer to its maximum, and that's awesome.
Second off, I just wanted to point out that I've heard people, but bothers me is I hear a lot of people
in the past talk about, you know, how they get nervous when they see their only, they have like a
16 gigs of RAM, and they get nervous when they see like four are being used, or, you know, they have
like so much CPU processors that are never being touched before, and that's, and that bugs me,
you know, why worry about it if you have such a powerful machine? Why worry about what little you
were actually using of it? And then you have people like Bob here who's just pushing this one machine
to its brink, and I think that's awesome. Say, did you guys see those last two screenshots I put in the box?
I see them. Just have to go and have them up in a second.
Hello, Zimbabwe. How you doing, KDG?
I've never seen you in here before. Oh, I've been in here a few times before.
Having is maybe not the new year where you are.
No, it's not, it's 5.58 pm, it's not midnight yet, and does anybody know where I can get
4-8-1 stable kernel.
I'm looking on launchpad right now. I see a lot of things that's talking about it,
but I don't see it there. What do you need that kernel for?
Because they said that that particular kernel had a lot of audio issues fixed.
Yes, I have no audio whatsoever from the built-in speakers.
Right now, I'm using plug-in speakers.
Or destroy you using?
Black lab Linux, LXDE.
Oh, I put two screenshots in the box. You could take a look at it.
Yeah, I saw those already. Arch Linux is still the best.
Well, I really wish that Man General had an LXDE.
But of course it does. I mean, you guys, we've all got to stop thinking that just
the default installs of a desktop that comes with some Arch Linux,
easily installed is all you can have. It's literally one pack man command from a low
way. It's so simple.
Well, I know. Siva told me that Man General's got an LXDE. I said, no, they don't.
I said, I've clicked on the thing that says community, and I didn't see one there.
I mean, for example, if you don't install XFCE, I'll write the command here in the prompt
where you've got to type, and that's all you've got to do.
You know, I think that's a little bit of a talking point, really, is the fact that
for me, I've got into over the last six months or so. I've got into KDE.
So I'm working at what dish rows can I try? I've got a good KDE implementation.
Now, you can replace KDE with whatever, you know,
Nome 3 or Unity or XFCE, whatever you want. Now, isn't that a concern where you're looking at
what can I choose, what a dish row that I want, but what environment that I want?
I mean, surely this is probably the time I start to get into Linux, where you would pick your
distribution, and the distribution in store had a choice of XFCE, a KDE, or GTK, or whatever it was.
It seemed like you need to have, it's like a specialized thing. If I like exit LXDE,
I want to pick a dish row that's kind of specialized in LXDE and get a specific spin of
that dish row that has LXDE on it. You know, I think that's what I can, I can buy.
You've got to separate, you've got to separate two things, you know, you've got the default
kind of configuration of the desktop, and then you've got the pre-configured or pre-chosen apps,
and I think people get hung up about choosing apps, which are all GTK or GNOME apps,
personally, just like to use the apps that I like to use, where if GTK, GNOME, KDE apps, you
know, it doesn't matter, and then pick the desktop I like, you know. But you do have a point,
you know, some KDE distros, the default installation of the KDE itself, you know, just desktop,
it's got a more nicely, more, more appropriately configured desktop, you know.
I, yeah, I mean, I'm like that, so I would use GTK or GTK, I would use KDE GNOME,
I don't really care, as long as the apps program work, but FizzleWeap has a point there
that how certain distros are, well, you get a default interface, or I was like, let's,
one sample, Nigeria has GNOME and KDE as the two most supported default interfaces, you can get
XFC and Mate and other ones, either the customer install, or via readbit. Fidora has GNOME as its
default interface, but you can also have KDE version, you can have an XFC version, Ubuntu has Unity,
which is now their interface by default, there was a lot of flavours there as well,
Ubuntu, Ubuntu and all that. Open2C is, well, I think it's actually really both
KDE and pretty much the same in that sense, but certain distributions have more of a reputation
of being better for one of those in face than the others, so, for doors known as a good GNOME distro,
Nigeria is known as a good KDE distro, more so than a GNOME distro, probably really.
Open2C has a kind of being a good KDE distro reputation,
PC Linux OS is mostly a KDE distribution, OpenMandriva, I was looking at that again,
the other day on the website or whatever, and again, they seem to just be doing nothing,
but KDE there now, really, so again, OpenMandriva is a good KDE one, and so it goes on,
but you wouldn't get the fault of picking it, but you would get, generally in the past,
or now, even now, you pick a distro and you get web interface, you get by default,
and then you go from there, which is sort of what this web was kind of getting out as well.
But this is exactly what point, when you're saying about things like, I mean, I agree with you,
when it comes to, you know, Mandriva was a good, known as KDE, and Fedora is known as,
is known on whatever, and Sousa is known, and OpenSousa is known as KDE, and that's my point,
is the fact that, isn't the whole power of Linux, the fact that it's this core,
at the center, or everything, and then you can tack on whatever environment you prefer,
and it's going to be equally good, it's like, you're a tack on Foxbox, or OpenBox, or,
you know, XSE, LXD, KDE, whatever it is you want, you tack it on as an add-on to the kernel,
so an add-on to the basics of what Linux is, so the fact that,
and OpenSousa has there, you can, you can go into the download page and see the, the, the,
the norm three version, I, so you download that, or the KDE version, you download that,
or the XSE version, you download that, that's my point, is the fact that these are so
different, like surely, that's, that's a concern, like, what happened to that, what happened to
that ideal, where you could have the same basic, and then you tag on whatever it is, what's the
point of an ISO for GTK, or ISO for KDE, ISO for XSE, if well, what's the point of that, surely
that's, can I count or product it? Well, what about this? Well, it's a bit, I mean,
the Ubuntu, maybe kind of do it still sort of, what it's getting at or not, but, you know,
you have the Ubuntu base, and then you, you go for whatever interface, so you can run to your other
Ubuntu, but, um, but yeah, don't read any of these interfaces, should work in what Abidistory,
you chose a, a sports interface, and it should all be pretty much the same. So does anybody know,
if kernel.org is a legitimate site? I think that's the upstreet site for the kernel, isn't it?
I hope so. You think it is? Anyhow, Gordon, I did put two links in the box for you,
the way up high, you have to scroll back up to find them, but there's one for the crunch,
quench bang, tips, tricks, and scripts, and another one for Alex Lennox.
Yeah, that tips, tips and links thing, I have, I have that as one of every time that I had
had installed crunch bang, I jumped back and forth between eight, but it was all debut inside,
so it was crunch bang, debut and Ubuntu and Mint was one of those four I would run on everything,
absolutely everything, and most of the time my preference would be crunch bang, because it was
nice and light, and it was open box, and one of the first things I would do was always look at
the crunch bang forums, and to find ways to sort of trick out my open box, so I have seen that
before in terms of open box. Yeah, that particular page is for open box, but I know he's got a
page around someplace for LXDE, tips, tricks, and stuff, and scripts, and stuff. Now, I would say on
that one, the Alex Lennox one, he did just update something on it this month, but do be careful,
there's certain things that's kind of old on the site that might not mix very well with a new
distro, and do not use the Alex Mad, he's talking about on the site, do not use it, too many people
lost their menus after just installing it. It is installing it to come menu back then.
I installed it, I opened it up, I took a look at it, I didn't really even do anything, I didn't
activate anything on it, I close it up, and all of a sudden I noticed my menu was gone, it was
just gone, you know, and I'm thinking what the hell, I didn't click on anything in there,
the only thing I did was, all I did was open it up and look at it, you know, and scroll up and
down and look at what was in there, and I clicked down the red axe, just close it up, and then boom,
my menu was gone. Yeah, it was possible for me to get to the menu back again. Oh, I eventually got
it back, it took me from nine o'clock in the morning to about nine o'clock at night, and I finally
found a command that did it for me. Yeah, you may be getting into the, so if you can make
a comment on this site, maybe help someone else then. Yeah, well you'll have no idea how pissed off I
was, I was about one minute from actually reinstalling the entire operating system.
Well, as they say, better to be pissed off than pissed off.
There's a motivation for learning how you can be able to work, you know, learning what
package is installed and how to fix stuff, and I might seem painful, but sometimes getting
getting into grips with something like Arch Linux, you know, and understanding how
and what packages do when you install them is not a bad idea. Yeah, that's why I started with
Slack where I probably just wanted to get my hands dirty at the whole process and learn as much
as I could there. Slack was actually my first distro. I'm going to go back in the days when you
had to install it with floppy disks. Oh, that's how I got, that's how I got my menu back. I put that
command in the terminal and restarted the computer and boom, it was back. Yeah, I'm not as old
schools happen to do with floppies, but I've been a Linux user since 2005 and back then it was
let's say I think it was four CDs going through all that. Yeah, it's 2004 for me when I started off
with Fedora Code 2. I couldn't get one like, anyway, yeah, it was like full CDs and it's all
like four hours to install as well and then of course Club goes wrong and then you didn't know what
to do with your newbie and you've been sold with the later version and all this. Forget all that.
Linux from scratch, that's what I'm doing next. Or what was the, what was it?
The thing was called suicide Linux or something like that. Oh, was that the one where you don't
take, you take a wrong command or something like that? It gradually counts down, it gradually
defeats things as you've put along suicide links. I thought I just did like an REM on the entire
file system. Yeah, it could be. Maybe there's a package you can even get for Ubuntu that will do
that for you, you know, help you learn quicker. Yeah, for me, there's a few basic things. I mean,
I am forced to use Windows at work, which most people are familiar with as they hate it and
Linux as they are. When they get home, that is their kind of savior, the fact that they've spent
eight and a half hours or whatever it is in front of a really frustrating Windows computer.
And then at least when they get home, they've got something sane that they can use.
But a few of the things like the idea of Windows always having a window on top and sitting
and having a window on top of other Windows, that would save me so much time at work,
but I'm on Windows. I don't have that option. If I was using it, if I was just using Linux,
that would make my life so much easier. That's one thing. The idea of being able to write like
anywhere on the desktop, anywhere on the screen and having the application menu pop up on the
meat and a pointer, that would save me so much time as well, rather than having all the way down
the start menu and then clicking and all the way up, that would save me so much time.
It just minor differences, make all the difference.
There are some tools under Windows that will make those things happen. Third-party tools are
possibly some shiny tools, but how much control we've got over your own PC at work.
Yeah, that is that, but that comes down to an IT department that are very, very conservative,
it's like no, we're not DNS and it's even remotely unorthodox. No, no, no, we're not having that,
it's like you're going to get me, there's a better way to do it than this, like seriously trust me,
there's a better way to do it, but no, it's not having that at all.
At the system, we're just doing it myself, I can appreciate that view.
One of the things that drives me craziest with Windows is, on Linux, if your mouse cursor is over
a window, any window, if it's an activated window or not, if you scroll, it'll scroll that window.
On Windows, it'll only scroll the window that's on top.
Oh, that's so handy in Linux, that is just that is something that for the best.
Well, this is 26, this is the final day of 2016, like 45 minutes, and to like that I've had this for
so long, that is such a good thing. And on Windows, like no, that drives me nuts, that's absolutely insane,
in fact, that you've got to click into that window to make it active before you can scroll it,
it's like, ah, why? But seriously, why? That's like so, that's bizarre, that's utterly bizarre,
that should not be reshoot, like we need to find a way around that, that's bizarre.
I mean, I know in my brain, it's only, you know, one simple quick click, and I'm ready to scroll
another window. But getting used to doing that again, it's taking minutes off of whatever task I
could be doing. I know it's just a workflow thing for me, but I miss multiple desktops. I can't tell
you how many times I'll just put something like a full page of something on one desktop and then
just keep on scrolling back and forth between different desktops just to get one thing done.
And not having that in Windows just drives me nuts. Yeah, that's something that, if I,
I mean, I need to use Windows 7 at work. If I had that option, that my workflow would be so much easier.
Each day, every minute I'm working there, I'm thinking how easier this would be, how much
less stressful this would be, with any, any version of Linux, I don't care what it is, any
version of Linux, any desktop environment with multiple desktops, and always on top thing,
and, you know, point of follows, cursor type thing, all those things would seriously improve my
workflow and reduce my stress, but no, I'm working on Windows. I've, I've got one of your options,
I've got to work on Windows and it's Windows 7. Like you said, it's, it's a workflow thing,
and generally on my laptop, on my desktop, I'll have dark table on one desktop,
gimp on another, a full screen terminal on another, and then I'll just have another one free for
whatever, like sometimes I'll use more virtual desktops, sometimes I'll use less, you know,
so I'm usually rocking between four to six, and for me personally having something full screen,
you know, whatever I'm working in on one desktop kind of forces me to stay and keep working,
and not get distracted going, oh, you know, I thought about this one YouTube video, I'm going to
watch out real quick, and then, you know, it goes down the YouTube hole, but if I have it full
screen on one desktop, I can keep just switching between whatever I'm actually working on,
I get so much done so quickly. You know, I think that's the three, arguably the color features
of Linux, or arguably BSD as well, although I'm not sure, is the three color things that Windows
just cannot possibly can be with, a virtual desktops, as soon as you get to wrap your head
round the idea of virtual desktops, and what it can do, and how you can improve your workflow
with virtual desktops. I have to kind of interrupt you with that one, because as of
Windows 10, there's actually virtual desktops, which basically, which I don't know if you've tried
that for yourself or not. Well, yeah, that's true, that's absolutely true. However,
the up until Windows 10, this was something that Microsoft never did, so they've gotten people
inclined to run Windows all on the same desktop. The whole virtual, the whole multiple desktops
like totally new, so people who are aware of that, great. That's fine, they've got to use to that,
they've been introduced to that. The whole point of virtual desktops is a fantastic idea.
Once you wrap your head round the idea, and it does take time, and you can wrap your workflow
to that, it's great. The other thing, as I said, the right click on anywhere on the desktop,
and it brings up the menu, that's a fantastic thing as well. These are things that it takes time
to wrap your head around, but once you do, it's something you don't really want to give up.
The other thing is that it's always on top, because such a minor thing,
but the idea of having been able to set one window like a text document or something,
is always on top, and then you scroll like the document underneath it,
the copy and paste, that's unbelievable. It's a workflow thing that's unbelievable,
it's something that people who don't have an experience of that, don't quite understand
how functional that is, but when they do, you don't want to give that up, and that's where Linux comes in
by default. I love that always on top. There's one text file that I use for when I'm posting stuff
for Linux Logcasts, and to archive that, or we go through the initials. Oh, sorry, I think my
thumb was over the mic here. I said that always on top is an excellent feature. There's one
text file that I use every time I post Linux Logcast episodes, then to archive.org that I just
copy and paste. It's every single time I just have that thing that one text file always on top,
and then just being able to copy and paste from that one text file into the web page,
it's a beautiful thing, and you can't get that anywhere else.
Tell me, you've no idea how I would kill for always on top to be available in my workplace.
I, like honestly, there's so many times I would love almost always on top,
but it's Windows, it's Windows 7, and it's not an option. I would love always on top.
Always on top is phenomenally good. It's such a simple idea,
but it's so functional. It's really so functional. There's more thing you want.
Well, it's one thing I want, yes. The one thing I want, I do it in Linux. I want to be able to
go into work and log into Linux machine, but that's not likely to happen. So I'm looking at,
I'm taking the minor victories where I can get them, and the minor victories, the most
important thing, arguably, that I could use would be always on top. I love always on top,
but it's something that I use at home on normal machines, and when I'm at work, I'm like,
ah, why am I working on such a backwards-ass machine? Like, surely this has to happen.
I'm talking about gaming.
One of my friends working on that link right now, every single bit of that is LXDE desktops,
and all the rest is what I did to my browser.
One of the things I constantly find myself wanting when I'm working on Windows
is to just open a terminal and install something. Constantly having to go through
wizards and all that crap drives me nuts. Because generally, I'm like, oh, I need to install this
to get whatever work I need done. If I was doing it on Linux, then I was just open a terminal,
type it in, bam, done. On Windows, just clicking and clicking and clicking, it drives me nuts.
Yeah, Windows definitely likes its installers, and that is a good thing.
When Linux is in, you just download it from the repos or whatever, and that's that,
although we do have the occasional program within install as well,
do they tend to be proprietary software, I think, actually?
Or like a license agreement or something, you go to a set or something like that, you know?
So anyhow, I think it's amazing what you could do with LXDE.
Okay, let's have a few images. The book, the book, which is the book, and then cash in this book.
Have you tried the new thing, but with Coutie kind of thing, LXCoutie?
I am not even interested in LXCoutie.
Okay, that looks nice, although I would still stick to, personally, to go in for you, or
UDA, or maybe U27, or mate.
But isn't it amazing what you could do with LXDE?
Well, yeah, you've done a lot of, while it looks, it looks quite nice, the image, yeah.
Yeah, all the rest of them is how I send my browser.
Oh, and by the way, I even know how to install compias in LXDE, and spattery said it couldn't be done.
I think, no, yeah, compias, I think, I mean, I haven't really thought of it,
but it would make sense of that should work as well, because it's GTSK based, isn't it?
I mean, LDNT7 was using compias by GTSK, so it should work with LXFCE as well.
It used to work with KD, actually, compias. I remember burning that with Connumber,
the cube effects with KD in the past, and obviously can only do as well.
So it should work, I think, with everything GTSK, or what would it also?
Yeah, well, many years ago when I met spattery, he said that you could not install compias in LXDE.
Well, I proved him wrong, and there's another person I proved wrong, too, is what's the name of that guy?
Rotten corpse. He told me that I would never be able to get my handheld controller to work with my
laptop, because I had a, what's it? PC, let me find out the name of this program.
PCSXR, it's a PlayStation emulator, and I had some games on it, and it do is get my handheld
controller to work on it. Well, Rotten corpse said I would never be able to do it, but I proved him wrong.
I, yeah, I mean, I remember I used to, I remember, for install, like, a PlayStation emulator,
and it's possibly the same program in the past as well, and then you get a game running or
something, and we put your PlayStation disc in, and then you realize, oh, I don't have a hardware
for this, but, or something like that, I was a controller, or whether you'd be able to do it with
actually any, but now I've actually got a nice, a little too big of that too, actually, you, like,
bought a little gaming device, where you can play all these old games, and you've got the hardware
and all the rest of it, so that's good, and they're quite small devices.
Yeah, that greenish and sunny yellow theme, I stalled that from Bodie.
That's, that's really naughty, I'm going to have to, I don't have to tell them that, I'm
Andrew, can we, I'm, I stalled the, I didn't really steal, but from the, uh, Medea, um,
six, I think, you know, five outwork contest, and then there was a really nice, um,
sunset image that I, I mean, I mean, I mean, Vogue Medea as well, and the beauty stuff, so,
but I took the image and I found it in my bundle tab, and I had, I had my background for many
months now, but it wasn't quite the intention of that image, personally submitted that, they
wanted it in to review as a screensaver, not really to appear on a bundle tab, not bad, well.
Yeah, if you see that blue one with the ducts flying in front of the moon, uh, to the right in
the corner, you'll see a little elegant conke into the left, you'll see like a little panel thing.
I stalled those both from Alex Ellie.
Well, some images to be fair, you know, it's perfectly okay really, how are they licensed?
Is it an equivalent you'll have to share it, you have to use it like that, you know,
but, um, I know, generally saying you've taken off something else, and then you're using it in that,
but generally, the image is Andrew of free-chafing or whatever, then, you know, it's fine, really.
Um, yeah, and the one you see with the huge orange flower and the really dark theme, uh,
I got that stuff from Noob's Lab.
Oh, I didn't get the wallpaper from Noob's Lab, I got everything else from them.
Maybe they can put your link in the show notes, because anyone listening to this later on,
we know what we're talking about.
On that real greenish one with the great big lake, if you see the icons top left,
I believe those are called the crunch icons or something.
I got those from Noob's Lab as well.
They're called cluster, I'm sorry.
I haven't really customized the desktop for ages, I haven't really needed to, I like defaults.
But I'm looking for kind of thing.
And that real metallic one, that looks like something that came out of the matrix almost.
I stole that stuff from Lennox Mint.
Oh, and the one below that with those really cool looking icons.
I stole those icons from, oh, Makulu.
Oh, what's the name of that robot in Iron Man?
You mean, Iron Man?
Yeah, Iron Man.
Iron Man with Robert Downey Jr.
What's the name of the robot in there, though, the computer?
Jarvis?
Oh, yeah, Jarvis, that's it.
If you could take a look at the blue one, the blueish theme,
I got that theme from a guy that actually created a real Jarvis on his computer.
Sorry, I'm just here, I'll put all of it off on the bike.
You hear that?
You come in and going.
You gotta admit, there's some gorgeous desktops.
All of it worked paid off in December.
Do what?
All of it worked paid off.
What's learning how to do this kind of stuff last time we talked?
Oh, I learned all that stuff about three years ago or more.
Maybe you were still checking some other desktops then, huh?
Yeah, I got my kernel, I just got to figure out how to install the damn thing.
No easy way, just typing a command in and that's it.
It's your distro based on Ubuntu or something else.
Debian Ubuntu?
So it uses DebFiles then?
Yes, it uses DebFiles and I got Synaptic Package Manager on the software center.
Yeah, Synaptic Package is mentioned, it's my fault with the application to pack kind of thing.
Yeah, that's the name of my file.
I just got to figure out how to install the damn thing.
I think I know, but I'm not exactly sure.
The other guy is sending a link or do you, you can compile it?
He gets, I don't want to do that.
You're going to have to.
You maybe need the other file, maybe a DebFile.
No, no, no, I've got it in this package right here.
I'm extracting it right now.
I just need to figure out how to install it from here going forward.
If you have a duckbed file, I would install it by using TPKG,
space-i, space, and the package name, which will do the installation of the DebPackage.
I thought that I just went into the, um, into the terminal and did, did something like
pseudo-appget install and then just put the, um, path name.
I think Appgett world action of a DebPackage, DebPackage-i.
Then you can follow it up with, um, an Appgett space install, space-f,
which fixes up any missing dependencies that, that package might demand.
When I do it that way, see pseudo-appget install and then the, the path?
Appgett install usually wants the name of the package, not an actual package,
in a family of itself.
What Appgett will then do is download the package from their repositories.
So I don't think you want to supply a path to a DebPackage file using Appgett install.
Now, I do not have a DebPackage file.
I got a TAR XZ file and I just, uh, open it up and got a little folder out of it that says Linux
415 and what is it inside that one?
You may see it don't have the source code.
Oh, there's a bunch of folders and files in here.
You don't know the source code of their code.
You, you, what, what is that file?
Well, can I get a freaking PPA or something that's easy?
I mean, does everything gotta be so freaking hard on me?
Uh, see here and go over to see if you can find a dead file for it.
Okay, I'll try that.
Okay, I went to Google and I typed down download Ubuntu kernel stable for 815.deb.
Did you get them?
Welcome back dude.
I'll have you guys ever heard of a kernel with the name liquorax.
There's a link in the mumble chat that we'll walk you through all of that there.
You get the files in there, I see.
Oh, I see the page.
Yeah, you can find the dead file for whatever you need.
It's to lecturely.
Wait a minute, that's the same site that I just found.
Is it funny?
Maybe a month, maybe people have Google lead today.
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, a lot of people have trouble with it, especially telemarketers.
So generally, if someone calls me, I don't know the number and they're like, Mr.
Weaverly?
I'm like, no, goodbye.
What is through you, boss?
I run for Dora.
No, I use open box.
I can't hardly understand you're breaking up off of bed.
Did you open it yourself?
So, did you install it from source or from market?
I just installed it from an RPO.
I mean, I didn't really see any advantage of just compiling open box myself.
I feel it's harder to compile it if it doesn't.
I mean, it's not like you would take long considering open box itself as like 1.4 megs or something like that.
I mean, you could still pretty much fit open box on a floppy disk.
Oh, have you tried that?
No, I haven't, but one of these days, I'm going to get me like a really old computer
and just find something that'll go on it just to do it.
I was searching out the web and trying to find this or to fit into a floppy disk.
I didn't find it and it wasn't time for each time.
Yeah, I was trying to figure out the difference in between those three things.
Well, I finally found out the difference.
The first one is Linux headers.
The second one is Linux image.
The third one is a kernel that is not generic.
The first two are generic.
Mr. Ray, are my voices going in and out all the time?
Yes.
They still find out that I am maybe that's why.
So anyhow, I would start by opening up the terminal and putting this in, right?
Right, nearly a new year here, so I'll be going away from this for a while too.
Who helps? Who's on this anyway still?
Who's on this still?
I'm still here.
I mean, it's too still here.
I'm still here, but it's tightly described in the other work that I'm doing.
Yeah, we lost doors in, I think.
Well, he's still in the channel, but in the thing that I'm not working.
But anyway, yeah, but I'll be back a bit later.
I'll pop back later.
Yeah, but back later.
Have a good sleep, then.
What was that?
You forgot have a good sleep?
No, no, no, I'm not going.
There's just new year stuff and then I'll come back for a bit on this.
Oh.
11, yeah, about 12 minutes to go plus the extra second for the next per second this year.
Yeah, I was about that.
I just saw something in the terminal go by me.
It says possible missing firmware.
That's not good.
That is very likely has identified the speakers, your sound card,
and recognizes that there are no free source, free and open source drivers available for it.
Be right back.
You can know someone say here if I'm still shopping.
I can still hear you and you're not breaking up anymore, so that's a good thing.
Yeah, I did go on the speed.
I did go on this page and try to find out if my bed was wrong.
And the first time I tried is just stopped and I got time out.
It sounds fine.
So, you know, speed test not understanding the sound is good.
Yeah, so it's maybe a very little low.
Too many beat us in the same time, maybe.
And I get very low.
No, we do boy.
It happened just said that what you just finished saying was broken up again,
so maybe it isn't so good after all.
Yeah, I'm not sure I can fix it because I think it's something which from web.
Go lightly, it's something upstream from you that you have no control over.
Yeah, exactly.
And I hate it.
It must be the day I can talk to people.
Normally, it's not that many people in here.
I know, this is like the building they're having.
I didn't know about it.
There was just lucky and come in here and there before it was going on.
I feel like I'm going to be in a poster.
I popped in yesterday just as it was getting set up.
But I'm actually not a hacker public radio contributor yet.
Although I've found this can fall and I would actually get that fixed.
So that there should be a podcast of mine coming out as soon as I get around to the recording one.
So, does you listen to it?
Oh, your first time doing this place.
Oh, no, I would listen to hacker public radio for well over a year now.
So, it's a high time that I paid my way.
I cannot really speak.
I am never listened to it.
It's fascinating is all manner of things.
At our sample freedom day, we issued a free culture disk,
which had some podcasts on it.
And I recommended two from hacker public radio.
We were forced to have podcasts that weren't of a technical nature.
So, I suggested two episodes, one called how to smoke a pipe
and another one how to skin a snake,
which are about as untechnical as I could think.
But, you know, still some fascinations of the people who were
who considered themselves part of the hacker crowd.
And that was two years ago, actually.
It was the last time that we had a software freedom day in Kitchener.
That would have been 2014.
You can see a better result.
It's no way.
It needs to be so shopping as it is.
And I cannot tell my shopiness.
Oh my, you have considerably more capacity than I have online.
I get about 13 megabits per second download.
And I think five megabits per second upload.
Yet, mine sounds fine.
I'm also running some torrents in the background.
The video that I'm downloading from the Chaos Computer Conference.
Phone, VoIP is running, who knows what else is going on.
So, I'm surprised that you're getting as poor quality
as the founders you're getting.
Yeah, I think it's a middleman,
something in between, something I know control of.
I think I'll go to top speed, no speed,
top speed, no speed kind of thing.
Oh, that could be.
I tried to go on the website.
It's totally rating rating rating rating.
On one of the links, some of you send me.
And the next time I try it, it just takes one second.
Who knows?
You have to go and hunt down whatever bit of fibres
is not connected properly.
Like I say, I'm likely to have something
that will be able to fix yourself.
And it's unlikely that you'll get any
technicians that you're are supposed to fix
around the year's eve.
Yeah, the wrong day in the year to get someone
to fix it, especially it's night here.
It's so mid-night that no one
going to fix it before tomorrow.
Everybody else is celebrating today too.
Yeah, you're right.
You're from.
I'm from Elmira, which is in Ontario, Canada.
It's about an hour rest of Toronto, Canada.
Oh, so it's not yet new year for you?
Our local town here is seven,
1900 hours in the evening or three minutes before 1900 hours.
I'll probably be leaving fairly shortly to start some dinner
and then I might be back in time for the actual midnight celebration.
Oh, it's 1900 hours to the midnight for you.
It's not quite midnight here yet.
Be a few hours.
Oh, yes, no, I see.
That is what your clock is right now.
I thought it was left.
Yes, that's correct.
Yeah, I see.
So it's not so long, but it's long enough.
Time to go have some dinner first.
And in fact, I think I'm up to do that now.
So I'm here to leave you alone in the room,
but I'll be back a few hours from now.
Yeah, I may be not be still here
if it's getting very quiet if snow,
but it's dark.
I think you might be around in your time zone
at this moment at this moment.
Yeah.
Oh, good night and happy new year to you.
Happy new year.
See you maybe next year.
I hope I'll see you there.
I hope you find the chance to meet me again.
Yeah, so hello.
I am alone.
Oh, you're back.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I had to go walk my dog there.
Yeah, I remember.
Then you said it.
I remember you was going in a quick walk.
I'm still as sharp as last time.
No, you sound fine now.
Me and Bush, your command find out it may be because
something in between.
I'm not sure where the fever is bad.
It's not in my house.
It's all the people posting on Facebook about happy new year.
Yeah.
Sometimes I have very fast.
I checked it.
It's faster and last time I checked it.
I go around I think four more megabytes
stone and one gigabyte megabyte
up more and less last time I checked.
Hello, no luck.
Yeah, I got it installed fine and everything, but it's not working.
So we can do it's not working.
Well, I mean, the car was working, but it's not.
I don't have any sound still.
Oh, so we couldn't do it and fix the sound problems then.
No, it didn't.
So you're hunting for an other kind than to fix the problem?
No, I'm starting to think about something else.
I can hear you and you can hear me, not to be a problem.
Yeah, laptop speakers suck anyway.
Did you use headphones?
Yeah, I used headphones right now.
I got these Eddie Betty speakers
that I've got plugged into the computer.
Yeah, they sounds like they work for you.
Oh, I've got ear buds and I got a brand new headset that's got a mic on it,
but I'm just so sick and tired of having shit on my head.
You know, it's really pissing me off.
That's why I want my internal speakers to work, you know.
But you can maybe find bigger things to plug in.
Most of the time you kind of think.
Well, the best thing for right now,
until I get the internal speakers to work on this laptop
is just to use these plug-in speakers, you know.
Yeah, you can find better plug-in speakers if you have the small ones.
They come in different sizes as you can plug in your PC.
Hello.
I'm reading something right now.
Yeah.
So, on my desktop, I don't actually have any speakers.
Like, I have no real need for them.
I pretty much wear headphones all the time for it.
I have four speakers and I just had to sit
or always when I talk to people.
You mean you don't even have built-in speakers on your computer?
No, on my desktop, no.
If you never use them, you just need them.
Exactly.
For my deal, I really, really don't want it to be built-in,
but it's just built-in, so I just do it.
What's your favorite text editor?
I'm a film guy, myself.
Leaf pound.
I know quite a few people that really, really dig e-max and
for me, it's not what I need.
I dig e-vim.
I used in like a year or so now.
And I thought, hmm, what do I need to learn?
Next to e-max, the hardest one.
It's easier to talk e-max versus if I understand both.
Although I will admit that if I do need to just
like copy and paste something real quick,
I'll usually just use like G-Edit or something simple like that.
I used nano for quite a long time.
I believe it was one of the default like editors for Debian back in the day when I used it.
But it's, the default for very many distros,
let us have, let us have Vim and E-max at all.
I also believe Sleckware used it.
Sleckware.
It's the Sleckware Debian spin.
No Sleckware is super old school.
It was about the original.
Oh, Sleckware, yes.
I thought about trying it, but it's still hard to go for me.
Like I was telling people earlier,
Sleckware was the first distro I used,
because I wanted to get the more hardcore Linux experience
and really learn the ins and outs of it.
Yeah, I think sometimes I need to do hardcore.
Maybe try arch first and then Sleckware.
Yeah, give archer go.
If you have like a spare machine that you're not really using or just can mess around with,
just slap it on there and just go for it.
Yeah, I'm thinking of doing it in a virtual box.
I think it's boring to watch things, waiting and doing things.
Only it doesn't find the time to try to read up and let's say.
Yeah, it's probably one of those things you got to just sit down and do,
like some people, it's not for them, other people, they really dig it.
I'm one of those people that just really dig it.
But sometimes I dig it.
But sometimes I think I have installed too many virtual boxes
which I need a timeout on it.
Do other stuff on my computer, not only install new virtual box.
Yeah, you can't really burn yourself out doing things like that.
Yeah, I think I may be done that.
I was very into Linux and now I'm less into Linux.
I still read my new Linux stuff, but I just don't do Linux so much more.
I hope I get into it again.
Now I am starting to get into Mumble again.
I burn myself for a Mumble.
I do pretty much everything with free and open source software,
except for like anything on my phone.
That's that's just kind of its own deal.
Yeah, you can maybe do open total open source on phone if you really want to.
Yeah, I could, but I used to be really, really into like flashing
roms and rooting phones and I really kind of burned myself out on that too.
Yeah, I remember dayl breaking my iPhone many, many years,
and then I just stopped this the last one.
I buy the iPhone.
The first thing I do after I buy them was rooting them and I was so happy about it.
I tried using an iPhone for about a week and it wasn't for me.
Like I come from a hardcore Android background.
So it was just, there were too many things I didn't enjoy.
Like if I decide to change the font size, it decided,
oh, I need to reboot the phone.
I'm like, why?
That is ridiculous.
Oh, I've thought the same experience.
I used by the Android phone and thought,
maybe I need to learn this kind of thing and it's so different for my normally iPhone routines.
And in the start I didn't understand why my phone always brought out my battery when I thought
I used a half year, it took me a half a year before I find out why it's just
burned out in like four hours.
It's what said in four hours.
No news.
The problem was it's out of updating kind of thing.
All that reminds me, I got to get in touch with that guy by the name of Joe something that I met
here on this channel here because they are sites that I gave them,
with that video that I gave them about all the interesting stuff.
I try not to wrong, I found that it was all nothing but lies.
It's their twisted version of satirical.
You know, I hate when that happens, it's so freaking humiliating that I have to go back to
somebody and tell them, well, you gotta just forget the site that I gave to you before,
because I found out that it's nothing but lies.
You know, it doesn't make me feel really good.
Could you have another news report to them?
Well, what they call satire today is not the same thing that satire was back in the old days.
It's totally completely different things.
Well, like for example, one site that was supposed to be a site of satire,
they're talking about a plane crash.
Now, would you tell me, satire is supposed to be humorous, right?
What the fuck is so humorous about a plane crash?
Uh, insanely dark humor then.
What if it was a really little plane filled with a lot of clowns?
And the site that I gave Joe the information on was videos on a certain channel on YouTube.
This guy is on there, he creates this other video, all puffed out.
He's a really big man, right?
Because he got people to believe all this shit, that's not true.
And then when I found that out, I figured, oh, fuck, not another one of these things, you know.
And then now I gotta tell Joe that it's nothing but lies.
I hope he called back when he's not gone, because he, he, he, you said in rice.
Well, I'll catch up with the guy sometime and tell him.
I just, I just hope he didn't take it so seriously like I did.
I really believe the stuff.
Yeah, and now what do you mean?
I, I remember taking a TV show, uh, real serious.
I thought this was a documentary, but it wasn't.
So I only have, he creates a video on how stupid is people.
You know, how stupid is somebody to believe this?
How stupid is somebody to believe that?
You know, it's like the only thing he's doing is putting these videos out there
to treat humans, all humans like the fucking stupid.
And the more he treats people like this stupid, I guess the more he feels like he's
fucking worse something.
So we, here really pissed you off then.
Oh, yeah, it really pissed me off.
I wonder if I'm still missing that firmware that the, uh,
terminal mentioned something about, because I did everything after that.
I mean, I did the updates, I did upgrades, I did the disc upgrades, I did the auto removes.
We built all this in there, you know, so.
All right, are you eating something?
Yeah, a cookie.
I have the Christmas then.
Uh, I got this box of peppered found cookies.
There's nine different types of cookies in the box,
and the thing was half price, so it was a good deal.
Yeah, and I remember you, uh, you say it's more like a cookie country and what normally
other countries.
Yeah, that's my missing Linux firmware thingies.
Now I just got to figure out if they're still missing or if I just
eventually pulled the stuff in.
You can maybe search for it and try if you can download it somewhere.
Well, this guy's having a good time.
What guys?
She's running in and out the window.
Oh, the cat.
Yeah, it's in there.
Yeah, I got a link for you.
Okay, uh, it's a movie I may be thinking you may be like.
I tell you, a lot of these people at Ubuntu are assholes.
Just suck.
Yeah, that's a great video that kind of reminds me of one I saw not too long ago.
That was more like a documentary.
Yeah, I've then I've watched it.
I've thought, hmm, this is something December maybe you want to see.
It's your kind of topic, kind of movie.
Yeah, there's a very long documentary.
I think it was about pretty close to an hour long and it was showing this, um,
this place really close to a downtown section of a really, really big city like in Europe or
something like that and um, it's like there was old dilapidated buildings like great big huge
office buildings that was like in ruin and the cats kind of took them over as a place to live
and it was kind of following the life of these cats, you know, as they, you know, lived in this
busy town and uh, and when they encountered humans and stuff like that.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I really don't want to be an Ubuntu freak or anything
like that is because a lot of these people on these Ubuntu forms are cold blooded ignorant mother
fuckers. Well, for example, uh, this question appears to be off topic.
The users who voted to close this gave this specific reason. This is not about Ubuntu.
Questions about other Linux distributions could be axed on Unix and Linux.
Those about Windows on Superuser was about Apple products on Axe different and generic programming
questions on Stack Overflow. Uh, excuse me, this guy is on Ubuntu. So what the hell are they
talking about? And not only that, if you go a little bit farther down, I am voting to close this
question as off topic because the question is about an unsupported kernel. This kernel is
supported. It is a stable kernel. So what the hell's their problem? Is that the kernel you
using right now? You got the link? Yeah, I got Linux from the guy that asked the question on
this four muscles on Linux. Do you got the link to your thing? Yeah, if you want to read it to
see how angry these people are, I mean, yeah, I mean, the person's coming to get help and they
turn them like shit. That sounds like what Arch Linux is doing to new people. How did you find this?
Did you have Google search it? Well, all I did is I went to Google and I paced it in the message
I was getting from my terminal when I installed that kernel. And this popped up. Yeah, that was
one of the things that popped up in the results. I used from two months ago, I joined this place
to get answer on some questions. Oh, here he's actually asked somebody's asking something.
May I ask why this is off topic? It is regarding Ubuntu 1604 and the 4.8 kernel installed from
the Ubuntu kernel PPA. And then the person that responds says it is considered off topic because
there is no official release using the kernel 4.8 at this time and thus no official support.
Yeah, and that's the thing you're using right now. What the heck? No, that person that told him that
reminds me of that asshole that tweeted that other guy like crap on the red hat site. Yeah,
you know, this guy comes to the red hat forum because he's got a problem with his computer. He
really, really needs help bad. And so he gets on there and he puts it as question and they add some
on. Well, no, they said to him that you're a particular distro is very close to its end of life
right now. If you encounter the same problem after you upgrade to the next one, please contact us.
Now to me, you know, that is just like pushing shit aside, you know, that is telling him, okay,
we're not going to help you now. Uh, if you upgrade to the next one and it's in the next one,
then contact us. So that means that they're going to be ignorant enough to allow it,
to allow the problem to go into the next version. I mean, what the fuck is that? Yeah,
they hope it may be someone else fix it so they just need to do it. They are lazy then.
Well, I think I'm going to go to open Linux community in case anybody comes in over there.
And if anybody wants me to, everybody wants to follow me over there, I can give them the information.
Yes, Torres, I know, I think it's just like four people actively in here.
Actually, this is the most people I've ever seen in here. Yeah, no, I mean,
actively, we're still around to talk back to you.
Miss directly and the new guy who's propped in and dude, man, is the people who last said
or write something in the last half a year or so. I was thinking, thinking of maybe going off
and you were thinking of living. So I can maybe follow you to the next channel and talk a little
and leave. Well, anyhow, if anybody wants to follow me, I'm going to go back to open Linux
community. Everybody take it easy and happy new year. Happy new year. Bye, you guys.
Good evening, everybody. Good evening. Let's try this again. Hello, everybody.
Hello. Howdy. Hello. A little bit quiet in here tonight. Yeah,
leave for a few hours and it gets all quiet. So it would seem that has nothing to say
with anything about you if we. Yeah, it's not like I was talking a whole lot when I was here earlier.
I thought it was just me. So do I sound okay then? Yeah, sounds good.
Okay, cool. I'm coming to you over Bluetooth to my phone. So come on, everyone,
there's got to be something we can talk about. I just make coffee. Coffee is delicious.
The difficulty is I haven't been listening to the feed so I don't know what we haven't already
talked about. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. That's the point of this though, isn't it, that you get a
rotating cast of people and even if you talk about the same thing over and over again, it doesn't
really matter, does it? Because it's new people talking about it. Fair enough. Who do we have this
actually actor right now? I haven't been actually looking at whose name's been lining up. I
recognize John KT4KB and I heard Taj's voice. And are you Joe Ress too? Yes, for some reason Joe
Ress is my normal name and that wouldn't connect because I think I connected and then it timed out
or something. Right on. Well, welcome to the second iteration of you. Indeed, and this is actually
the second time that I've been on this channel this evening. Wow, so totally appropriate to have
the two there. Yeah, I suppose it is. So for me, it's 2017 now and I suppose the obvious thing to
talk about is 2017, the year of Linux on the desktop, question mark. Oh, for heaven's sake.
I was just hoping you were going to tell me the 2017 was already better than 2016.
Apparently not with that choice of topic. Well, for me, probably 2012, 2011 was the year of
Linux on my desktop. Yeah, I just want to say something similar. Except for me, it was 98.
Tucker Beard back in there. We haven't internet-old fart. I don't know. Can we call 2017 the year
of nobody cares if you use the Linux desktop because everything's web-based and it doesn't matter
anymore? I think that's been the case for a good few years by now, isn't it? I don't know. It seems
like I used to get a lot angrier that I couldn't do things and now it seems like I can do whatever I
want. There's very few things and when it does happen, I'm like, really? There's not a web
plan for that. Well, I was talking to an old friend about this a couple of nights ago and it depends
what you want to do. I mean, if you're talking about your basic browsing email and the kind of
stuff that you can do through a web browser, then Linux is absolutely fine and has been for a very
long time. But if you're looking to make money from your computer, then Linux is not quite there yet
and not because the platform itself isn't ready. It's been ready as far as I'm concerned for
at least five years, if not a lot longer. It's the applications that are available on it, specifically
the proprietary ones that aren't available and they simply aren't good enough for your software
equivalents. Name one. Okay, we're going to go there. Well, consider the fact that I've been making my
living using just Linux on a desktop with creative applications for over a decade.
Right. Well, this is something that I'd be very keen to hear about. What kind of creative
stuff are you doing for a living and what applications are you using on the Linux desktop in order
to do that? Primarily animation and graphic design. And yeah, so Blender's my power workhorse, but
again, create an inkscape script. You name it. Well, graphics specifically Blender. I mean,
my understanding from talking to Campbell Barton about it is that Blender is certainly up there,
if not the, well, it's one of the industry standards. And graphically, we seem to be pretty much
there on the Linux desktop. I mean, GIMP, although it's different from Photoshop, it can do an awful lot
of what it can do. And I hear the inkscape is good. I've never worked with vectors personally.
And so graphics and animation, we're winning, but the other creative stuff, not so much. I mean,
the classic one is video editors, but something that's closer to my heart is audio. And the fact is
that Pro Tools is the industry standard. You can go into any studio, anywhere in the world. And if
you know how to use Pro Tools, you can use that studio. Well, as I suppose that's the question
is, are you looking to fit into somebody else's pipeline? Or are you, you know, looking to
do do do work? Because if you're working at somebody else's pipeline, then regardless of wherever
you go, you're going to be stuck with whatever they use, unless you happen to be in a position to
change it. But if you're if you're on a freelance side of things, nobody cares. And it works great.
I've got a friend of mine who exclusively uses our door. And one other application that I can't
question. I don't remember the top of my head. But yeah, I mean, it's it's a doable thing, but
it's a lot easier to do it when you're when you're a freelancer than trying to jack into somebody
else's pipeline. That's that much I'll give. Well, I would actually disagree with that.
Case in point is a very, very good friend of mine who is a post-production sound engineer,
dubbing mixer, I suppose, for TV, working in London as a freelancer, working for various
production companies. And the fact is that it's very it's a very common occurrence that he will
not see a job through from start to finish. He will be part of a team. He will be assigned a
couple of days doing preparation, for example, or he'll be doing finishing or, you know,
doing something in the middle. And everybody has standardized on photos from the video editors
down to the audio editors. And they can share session files and, you know, zip it up as
you know, including all the audio or whatever and transfer it around using the internet.
And so it's no good for him to say, I use this completely different thing and I will do a
little bit of it on that, because that's no use to anyone else who is part of the chain.
And so you have this problem of locking, the proprietary locking, and you know,
it's something that I have discussed many times with many different people. But the fact is
that that is the reality of the commercial world, certainly in the post-production
audio industry within London and from what I can tell worldwide.
I'm not disputing that the underlocking is a problem. It also depends on what your
deliverables are going to be. And if you're going to be working more as part of a pipe or if you're
working directly for a client, I mean, what you said was that it's not possible. And that's
patently untrue. Now, it's just tougher if you want to work with other people as part of a
pipeline. But if you're working directly with a customer, directly with a client on your deliverable
is a audio file or a video file or a still image, it's completely doable and has been for years.
I'm kind of with two minds about it because I, on one hand, I agree with you. But then on the
other hand, I know when I got out of school, when I went to go get jobs, I mean, when you'd walk
into a studio, they were like, okay, this is a pro tool shop slash final cut shop or this is
an average shop or, you know, they expected you to walk in and know that tool chain. But with that
being said, now that I don't do that, actually, once you got your foot in the door, you could
pretty much do whatever you wanted because maybe it was just where I worked. You got your own
projects and you just worked on your projects and whatever. But as far as like video editing,
because that's the big thing I deal with, I've not found many use cases where Kaden Live wouldn't
do what I wanted it to do. Now, I would have to wade through a lot of junk to get to it. But it
was doable. And I think it's just not a lot of people the whole time is money thing. If it's
something that they're just easier to do in another suite, they will do it there just to save time.
But I don't think it's lack of tools being able to do things. I think it's just lack of the workflow
being popular enough to where people feel like it's easy to learn. But if you're using Kaden Live
for stuff, for sure, that must be some sort of web content. That can't be for one of the better
word proper professional content because the thing is that as a post production sound engineer,
you are producing not just a stereo audio file. You're producing a a Pro Tools session,
which is then sent to the video editors to sync with the what they call the online edit.
And so, I don't know, what kind of media were you working with in Kaden Live?
I mean, we've done commercial video. Thanks for advertisements and stuff and, you know,
informational things for universities around here or businesses and stuff. I mean, we did a
lot of training videos and things like that. To where we did it all in-house. We did the audio
and we did the video production in-house. So it didn't really matter as long as I could get
back to the source, whatever it was, especially if I was doing a mix down on the video.
If I could go to like Steve, I just made up Steve, but let's imagine Steve worked there.
If Steve was doing the audio and he was the engineer that recorded it, I didn't really care
what he recorded it in as long as I could get the files to put in and sync them. It really didn't
matter to me, but that was the workflow we had. And, you know, we were just working with the
local media and stuff around here. It seems like it's just a different world then. I mean,
it's a world that I have dabbled in or be it very briefly. It's not something that I do
personally as a profession, but it's something that I have seen in action. And it just seems that
it just, my friend who is one of the, well, he is a successful working post-production
engineer in London. Let's put it that way. Whether or not he's one of the best, that's clearly
subjective. But for him to do his job and from what I have seen of the open source alternatives
to Pro Tools, I think it would be impossible for him to do it because there are so many plugins
that he needs and those plugins are so powerful that although you can do something close to it
with some of the plugins for our door and stuff, I just can't see it being possible.
And similarly with video as well, I mean, I have edited video in OpenShot and KatingLive
and done a reasonable job of it. But to get something that is, you know, for example,
in the Hollywood movie or on the BBC, I just, it just doesn't seem possible to me.
It's possible, but you have to build your pipe around it. And that's the issue. And I think
it's a question of what type of work you want to do and who you want to work for. For me,
I've never wanted to be in a big pipe. I've never wanted to focus on a specific one task in a large
chain. That's not been my interest. So I have the luxury at the, possibly at the expense of
maybe some lucrative, depending on what field you're in, money income. But by going by working
with smaller customers, we're working directly with a customer or a client who actually wants
the final output, I get to choose not just what necessarily what I'm working on, but I also choose
what I do it with. I've even fired customers before, you know, based on, based on being jerks.
And it's the same sort of thing. If, for instance, if you're interested in working in a large
production pipeline, we'll say, say Pixar or DreamWorks or any of those, we're going to talk
animation because that's sort of what I know most, then you're going to use their tools
primarily. And you're going to work on their projects primarily. If you want to work on your own
stuff, either you've got to spend your time and work yourself off the chain or you're just
going to have to do that on the side. So, but if you're, if you have a more director of interface
with, with, with an client and, and work on a, on a smaller set with a, with a smaller pipe,
then you have a lot more freedom and you have a lot more control.
Because at the end of the day, it's all that matters is what you deliver to them. If they are
looking for 4K video or 1080p video, whatever it is, as long as that is a professional end file,
that's all they're bothered about. That's what you're getting at here.
Yeah, pretty much. But if you're part of a bigger chain, as you say, then you all need to standardise
on a set of tools. And in the, the audio visual world, that is, protocols and avid. And if you deviate
from that, then you're not going to get work basically. Well, you have to standardise on,
least in interchange format. For instance, you, if you're, if you're talking video editing,
you could, you could, very, and I've done this before, you could take and edit it from
Blender, for instance, if you're going to use that as an editor or Kate and live,
if it's possible, Kate and live, I'm pretty sure it is. But you can take an EDL, you know, that
decision list that's for an avid or when Final Cut was actually a thing, do it for Final Cut,
and you can export your edit decision list based on, on your source media, they'd have the same
source media and you can basically import the edit from that. That's a possibility. You just have
to standardise on the tool set and in the interchange format for doing that. Now, whether or not
the people you work with are willing to, you know, acquiesce to, to making those kinds of adjustments,
you know, that's something you take up on an individual level. And, you know, if you're,
I don't want to put it this way, but I don't have a better way. If you're, if you're good enough
for them to want to work with you, then, then, you know, some of that stuff is negotiable.
It's harder to do when they say, I need an end design file or I need a Pro Tools file, right?
When that's your deliverable, that becomes a much more difficult thing to do. But if they say,
I need a 3D model, then maybe you can give them an NFBX or an OBJ file and go from that. If they're
looking for just an audio file, then a WAVE file or a set of synced WAVE files would do.
And I think that I'll be... I was going to say, are we not getting there into
compatibility issues, you know, slight compatibility issues? For example, I can send someone a
file that I've created in Libra Office and they will attempt to open it in Microsoft Office,
some version of that, and it will mostly work, but it won't be 100%. And in a professional
environment, there is simply no time for it to not be 100%.
I don't necessarily agree with... I'm not trying to be contrained here, but I don't necessarily agree
with that because I've written in Libra Office for... I had a couple books published,
I wrote them in Libra Office, and they're working in MS Office, and the differences were tolerable.
Again, part of that has to do with, you know, maybe they just didn't complain loud enough to me,
or, you know, it was good enough for them to do the last 10% on that.
Yeah, if it was just words and paragraphs and the fonts might have been different and some of
the spaces who might have been different, but they can pay an intern to sort that kind of stuff out.
But if we're talking about spreadsheets and more complicated things, macros and, you know,
more intense complicated uses of it, that's when you start to see compatibility issues.
And you do, and you do, but again, it's that point in time it deals with who you're working with,
and trying to baseline that, and it's a negotiable thing.
I'll put it this way. I have sent people dot doc files that I've created with Libra Office,
or possibly Abbeyword. You know, I've tried both. And they've said to me,
I can see the amount that we owe you, but I can't see your bank details so we can't pay you.
And that is when I realized that I had to start exporting it as a PDF. And okay, well, that's
not a huge deal, but a small business person like myself, that's not a huge issue. But if you're
in a large enterprise, that kind of stuff is simply not going to wash. It's at that point,
managers say to you, you've got to stop using this Mickey Mouse sort of free stuff. We're a
Microsoft shop here. And, you know, if you're an independent freelancer, okay, fair enough,
like I am, you can find ways to get around it, export as a PDF, for example, as I said,
but if you are in an enterprise, that just doesn't happen, and you don't have the opportunity,
you are dictated to from on high. And Microsoft has this stranglehold. And that is just a
microcosm for all of the other industries that use computers professionally. And like my friend
who works with Pro Tools, he is dictated to him on high from the effectively agents for whom he
works that he must use Pro Tools. And for him to use anything else, even another proprietary
solution like Cubase would be absolutely unacceptable. And so I think that those was in this
open source and the next bubble. We can sometimes forget that the reality of 95% of the working
world simply can't use open source software because they just not allowed to by the nature of
the organizations either in which or with which they work. It's harder, but it's not impossible.
My I stopped freelancing about four years ago, and I work in a larger company now. Now granted,
I'm the only Linux guy in the entire company, and it still looks entirely on Microsoft's shop.
So some things are complicated, but I'm I'm I'm permitted, if you will, to to use my open source
open source tool chain for for every part of the business that I touch. And I think it is
it may be uncomfortable, but it is negotiable because I think about things that get sent around.
I'm a teacher, so I work in a school district, and it's significantly large school district. So
I'm not I'm not a special snowflake in a little pond. It's it's it's fairly large, but they'll
send out Microsoft files that I can't use, and I just literally send them back in email and say,
I don't use Microsoft anything. I don't own it. I'm not going to purchase it. If you want me to do
this, you need to change it into some kind of file format that I can read, and never has that been
an issue. Usually the person is just like, oh, sorry, and sends me the thing I need. So I don't
know, I guess it's just, maybe you just kind of have to be in a hole about it. And I'm just
going to do that. I don't know, but I've never really had a problem. I was going to say, are you not
the person that everybody secretly hates then? I don't care. I really don't care. I think I'm
morally right. So I'll be that guy, yes. So, Taj, you don't have to have a five minute conversation
about, you know, what what is open source and then how how is everything not Windows or not
Microsoft? I mean, I don't have that conversation anymore. And I think most people who I have had
that conversation with either just roll their eyes or because I mean, I'm a teacher, but I work
for the tech department too. So like all the tech people know, just like don't even start with me
because I'll go on, you know, proselytizing free software. But I think most people don't care
to listen to it. And I don't care to spend my time talking about it anymore. And I'm just kind of
known that that got like people just they see me doing my work at school and they see a black screen
and Emax and they're just like, you're a fucking wizard. Like they don't even know how to how to
approach me with with technical stuff. And I feel like a lot of times if I'm like, I can't read this
because it's in Microsoft, they're just like, Oh, okay, we must have done like they feel like it's
their problem for some strange reason. I don't know. Maybe it's just a unique situation. I'm in.
But I've never had a problem just being like, Hey, I can't read this change it to what I need. And
people just do it. I mean, I guess if you just ask people, do things. Yeah. And I'm sort of in
a similar in a similar boat. I mean, it's like, that was a condition upon which I heard,
like, can I can I can I use my tools? And occasionally, you know, every now and then there's
there's the, you know, trying to connect to somebody else's WebEx or something like that. You
might have a hiccup or there and someone will chuckle about Linux problems and then their entire
system will crash and how they'll get something caught in a crypto locker and I'll laugh about
their Windows problems. So it's it's at this point. It's it's it's I feel I feel the the abuses on
parody. But but it's it's it's not yeah, I'm sort of in the same same boat. Could it be that
Apple and Google are actually to thank for this idea that people will accept that there's more
to office documents than just Microsoft. In as far as there was a time when it was Microsoft
Office and that was it. Whereas now because of Google Docs and Drive and all that kind of thing
and the fact that there are more Macs, the fact there are more Chromebooks that there's a kind of
I suppose fracturing, you know, of the the office market to the point where it's not uncommon to
send someone who doesn't care at all about Linux and software freedom. You know, you send something
to them and they can't open it because they've got a Mac say or because they're on a Chromebook.
And so it's it's becoming more and more common to have to send things a couple of times in
different formats until it works with with everyone. And so in this weird way, it's almost the
Apple and Google are helping us against Microsoft. Microsoft certainly didn't help themselves either
when they hit their office interface with an ugly sticking for the ribbon in there. That's coming
to Libra office. So let's not jog too much about that. Well, yeah, but at least I think it's
turn offable, I hope. In any case, that didn't hurt. Like, yeah, Microsoft didn't help themselves with
that. And I think there's a lot of people looking for alternatives. But I think also there's a greater
awareness and a greater understanding of vendor lock-in of, you know, these, especially when you get
into a subscription-based scenario and software is a service-based scenario now where, you know,
you're running Adobe Cloud right now and you've got a file for layout that you didn't end design.
And oh, guess what? You can't open it because your cloud subscription cancelled and no one
else can open it unless they have a cloud subscription. People are certainly much more aware of that.
And so interchange formats that are compatible and easily openable from other programs are
more desirable. And I don't know. Or even almost a year ago, I think it was,
possibly a little bit longer. The whole Adobe Cloud was down for at least 12 hours, I think,
and there were professionals all over North America who simply couldn't get the job done because
they couldn't access any of their files. And, you know, it's not only if you've failed to pay
your subscription, even if you have paid it, sometimes that's not enough to access it. Yep.
I'm going to agree, Joe, with what you said, 100% because I think it's actually gone past what
you said and it's on the other side of that. It's become Google Docs has become such a standard
for I know for my school district, all the kids have Chromebooks, all the teachers have Chromebooks
like everything we do is go Google based and pretty much all the districts around us are kind of
the same way. That if you send somebody a word file, they're like, I can't collaborate with this.
I can't we can't do these things that I can do in Google Docs. This is so antiquated. Like
it's almost been to where Google has lacked us and now open source is still trying to play
catch up because Libra office can't get an online collaborative version on its feet that actually
works. So I think Google has become the new Microsoft and that is the new target that everybody is
kind of going towards and is expecting to work. Case in point, our assistant principal at our
school, he's brand new, moved in from out of state. They used Microsoft Excel and he was just
shooting out Excel spreadsheets to everybody because it's education and Excel spreadsheets or
a thing. And everybody's like, we don't even have computers that can open this. Like everybody's
on Chromebook, like we don't have word. So you're going to have to like transfer this into something
we can use. So I mean, and that's almost become the new de facto standard, which I don't think
it's healthy either. At least not without some kind of answer from the free and open source community.
Well, it's funny that you talk about that how prevalent Google services are in education and are
here stories about how Chromebooks are outselling iPads this year, 2016, last year, for me, 2016.
It's 2017 for me now. But I was speaking to a friend of mine who works for, I don't want to
narrow it down too much, but a major games company in the US. So he's very much in the enterprises.
I think at least several hundred people working in this games company. And I asked him,
are you going online? Are you moving to Google docs away from this idea of local applications?
And he said to me that while they're moving to Office 365, the Microsoft online solution,
collaborative and all that, Google is not considered secure enough. And I said to him, that's a bit
strange. Surely Google's security said, well, it's not necessarily about security on an individual
basis. It's the fact that Google's whole raison d'etre, their whole business model is based
around gathering data and exploiting that data. And so they are just not trusted within the enterprise.
However, you look at education and you see how Google is doing so well because it's free.
They're offering their services free, gratis, free as in beer. And that is very attractive to
school districts with very limited budget. When you start to get into the enterprise and you have
more of a budget, then they can start to look at, well, they can continue to look at Microsoft
solutions. But what seems to me the genius of Google is that they have almost ignored the enterprise
and gone for education because what is the future of enterprise? Education now is tomorrow's
enterprise, isn't it? If you get all of the students hooked on Google services now,
then when they progress through college and university and grad school and all of us, and then into
serious employment, the enterprise, then they're used to using Google services. And so it seems
to me that Google, in this sense, is playing the long game. And it's no less worrying than you
just pointed out there. But it's very interesting to me that you've got this Google creeping up on
Microsoft. The thing is though that Apple basically tried to play that game in the 80s and 90s.
And it didn't kind of work out great all of them. They kind of needed some cash infusion from
Microsoft to not die with that strategy. And just to clarify, I just didn't want it to go with
that being said, Google Apps for Education is not free. We have to pay as a school district for it.
It's basically the same as their enterprise package. We just we have to buy into it to get the
service and to get the storage and to get the management software that they they use for provisioning
Chromebooks and all that stuff. It all comes as part of a package. We pay that to Google just like
a business would. I don't know the number off the top of my head because we did it three years ago.
And I can't remember how much it cost, but it's not an insignificant sum of money for a school
district to use Google Apps for Education. Well, that was one mistake then. I wonder how that compares
to similar Microsoft offerings in terms of cost then. A lot less like several zeros less.
Yeah, so I was talking about it being free. And you know, perhaps I may spoke there, but so it is
fair to say that it is significantly less costly than Microsoft and therefore far more attractive
to stretched school distress. Yes. And you can already see Microsoft is trying to backpedal
and change that. They nonstop have reps calling like, hey, here's our new switch over to Office 365.
You can use it on Chromebooks and stuff and they're trying, but I think you're right. Google got
their foot in the door and they've entrenched themselves so hard that now it's it's more of a pain
that they could almost make it free and it's more of a pain to switch over everybody than it is to
just go with the status quo. Well, as I said, you know, years ago, I'm talking about in the probably
early 80s. Apple got their foot in the door of education where I was at at the time. And and
creeped in by giving, you know, if you give away a little bit of milk, eventually the school
districts buy the cow and that may not be the greatest analogy. But in all the different businesses,
I've been a part of in, you know, in my 56 years, when it comes to technology, when people start
giving stuff away, they the people that are paying the bills tend to go in that direction until
somebody comes along like Google has and takes a few of them zeros off. I know in in what I do now
until communications used to be elusive and Cisco came in and threw some some products that were
equally suited and took a few of the zeros off and guess what? They started going away from
loosen equipment. It's, I think it's partially business. You and I who are out here on the,
on the, you know, using the the equipment don't always get what's best for whatever,
whatever we're trying to undertake. Yeah. Well, you know, and Microsoft did take a something from
Apple's page. I mean, up through the 90s, Apple pretty much, well, I wouldn't say gave away
computers, but huge discount. In fact, I've, I've got, you know, probably archived 30, 68 K,
Apple machines from Macintosh from when the school district is, you know, finally got rid of them
that I was working for, but, you know, but my Microsoft figured this out and I'm sure they're
still doing it when I wouldn't, you know, they were selling academic licenses for office,
office pro for like 50, 60, 70 bucks, you know, rather than $300. It'd been $300 when I was
working there. You know, I've been a lot easier to convince the school district to use
labor office instead, but, or open office, I guess at that time. But, you know, when they're,
when they're getting it for 60 bucks, and it's what everybody else uses, you know, I,
well, I placed the, the workstations in the library and they said at the time, well, no, we really
don't need office on there. They're just going to use them for internet access and then they found
the students were, you know, going to do their homework and in the library and saying, hey, what
is this, what is this labor office thing that we don't know? And they, you know, they came back to
me and said, well, you know, what, what is that thing you put on there? So, well, you didn't want to
spend the money for, at the time for Microsoft offices. Well, now, now we do. So, and it don't
be the same thing, you know, you get the Adobe software for a huge discount in academia. And,
and they're doing this, you know, I don't think there's a profit model for them within academia,
but they're trying to get the kids used to what, you know, when they graduate from high school,
they know office, they know Adobe products. But, you know, at this earlier in the conversation,
I was reflecting on this is the vendor lock in really is all the fault of
everybody being on the web now because there was a time before that that, you know, one,
you know, one customer would have Microsoft office, the next customer would have the
Lotus office package, you know, somebody else would be using WordPerfect, somebody would still
be using WordStar. You wouldn't believe how many people still want to run, oh, before the
office, the Microsoft had office, the all the all in one package, you know, I'll think of it here
in a minute. You know, I, for years and years, I had to take old old floppies and keep that going
on each new version of Windows because the, the Secretary just, that's what they were used to
and they didn't want to give it up. Yeah, I think if we were, WordPerfect.
Now, it was, it was, there was a Microsoft, they didn't call an office package because it was
an all-in-one. We call them all-in-ones in those days. Oh, Microsoft works. Works, that's it. Yeah,
I remember that. Oh, God works. Hello, guys. Hey, what's it going?
Now, I mean, I think if, if we're one of the things I think we're not taking into account,
and it's 99% of the problems I've had trying to push for free and open source software in my
district is it's not about the money. If it was about the money, everything would be moved over.
It's, it's about who is covering who's rear end and who they can complain to to make things work.
So we'll have two options on the table. One is a support contract to use such and such service
or we could self-host an open source solution and it would cost less to use the open source solution,
self-host it for the machine to hire a tech to just specifically their job is to manage this thing
and to be honest, that's not what would happen. I mean, that person would probably be in charge
of a few things. So really, you're going to distribute that cost and you're looking at their salary
and their their benefits and all that and you're taking that all into account and we would save money
going that way and ultimately when the superintendent and the director of tech are saying no to this,
they're saying no because we don't have somebody to call a bitch to. Therefore, it's not we,
the only person to blame is us. So we're not going that route. We're going to go with a proprietary
solution because then that gives us kind of this hotline to call and and complain and then we
could point the finger at somebody else and say that's why this doesn't work. Everyone wants to
scapegoat. That's that's why I have a job for the most part. Well, without a scapegoat,
you know, they're the ones who break up for me. It's hard. It's not breaking up.
Also, people management looks at hiring people a lot different than does paying for something
so if you have to hire somebody to support a piece of software, it's it's a very different expense
at least in many places than it is when you have to just buy a license for something. At least
that's how it's been where I've worked. Also, we're not talking about the value proposition.
If something is free as in beer, then it must be worthless and clearly anybody who is sitting here
on New Year's Eve slash New Year's Day talking to me on this mumble server knows that that is a
ridiculous proposition. But if you are a middle manager in a large company, then you know, it's
like that old thing about no one has got fired for buying IBM and stuff. No one has got fired for
buying Microsoft solutions. Whereas if something is free, then that can't be very good then,
I don't know. I tend to think that the people I'm making the arguments to are smart enough to
know better. I really think they are. They just, I don't know, they're more worried about their own
their own, I guess, self-preservation than they are anything else. Yes, yeah, I don't think
the argument of if it's free and ain't any good makes a difference anymore, especially with you
have things like kind of my poor example, but Facebook, a Gmail, those things are quote-unquote free
and lots of people use them, including some of the people on this chat right now. So
and that isn't just a group of us. That's a group wide group of general computer people that
use Gmail because it's free and it's good. So that's not necessarily an argument. It's more of,
if something goes wrong, the company wants something somebody to blame, they want that
indemnity. They don't want, they basically want to say, okay, we're, instead of worrying about
email, we're going to move all our email off to Office 365. So we don't have to worry about it anymore.
That can be worried about by Microsoft and we don't have to worry about taking care of the email
servers or any of that mess. Yeah, I was going to say the people we're talking to are the ones that
literally when they get up from the table are going to go back to their office to log on their
BSD server to check stuff out and get hub and make sure their Apache servers are running. They
understand what free and open source is. They're not naive. They know what's going on. There's
other motivating factors and it could be the whole idea of it is different to hire a person
as far as financially. I know in education it's exactly that because it would come from two different
funding pools and that becomes its own morass of, I don't know, absurdity. But to me it's just like
the day people that's not why they're not making those decisions. They're making them for other
reasons. Well, I mean, this is Red Hat's business model. I mean, you can, as a tech, you could go
into a company and make the argument, well, let's just insult Sinos instead. It's the exact
same code. It really is now. But then you're taking on the responsibility of being able to
fix everything and then it just takes one incident of the server being down for eight hours on
something mission critical that you can't figure out what's going on for management decide,
well, maybe that wasn't the, you know, maybe we ought to have gone with Red Hat.
That's exactly what I was just about to say there. Red Hat. I mean, that's why they are the most
successful urban source company, arguably, because of their support. Because if you are willing to pay
for it, you can get 365, 24, 7 support from them. And as an enterprise with mission critical
infrastructure, as you've talked about there, that's exactly what we're talking about. If something
goes wrong, you can get it fixed incredibly quickly. You can have an engineer on site, you know,
you have to pay for that and you have to pay handsomely. And that's why there are two billion dollar
company. But yeah, why not just you sent us well, because it simply doesn't have that guaranteed
support that Red Hat does. Yep. Well, that kind of goes from where I work. We certify Red Hat
for use with our our company's products. Okay. I know Sino S is the same, and I get this question
all the time in preparation for server migrations, where they say, well, can we use Sino S? I have
to say no, because it's not Red Hat. And you and I know it's the same code. In fact, our product
would probably work just fine on Ubuntu for, you know, for any reason. The company will work for
we do ERP systems for higher ed. Okay. So really, if it's a supported operating, if it's Linux,
it should work. But we only certify Red Hat. And that's the only thing we use, and that's the
only thing we will suggest using, unless you want to go with Microsoft, or Solaris, or AIX,
anything else, because those are all supported solutions. And that's why office is a supported
solution to this day. Same thing for Adobe. Well, don't you think a lot of that is it is if
with with Red Hat, if your company has an issue with your product running on that Linux server
box, they can go to Red Hat and Red Hat's a big enough and responsive enough company that they're
going to fix it. No matter, you know, no matter what it is, when the corporations start talking
to each other, they react. And that's sorry, Joe, for stepping on you. Well, you could actually
buy contracts for almost any Linux distribution anymore. So that's not as big of an issue as we
may think it is anymore. Well, that's what I was just going to bring up that is that perhaps what
canonical with Ubuntu are doing wrong in that they're offering it for free, as well as if you want
to pay them for support, then that is an option. Whereas Red Hat, unless you're a developer, and
that you fairly recently, they've brought out this free developer subscription that's completely
unsupported. But generally speaking, if you're an enterprise, you can't use Red Hat, you can
use CentOS, but you can't use Red Hat. And therefore, maybe that's what Ubuntu is doing wrong,
that's what I'm getting at here is that the fact that if you're an enterprise, feel free to use
Ubuntu and support yourself, no problem. Or if you want to come towards, we'll give you all the
support that you want if you're willing to pay for it. And that's that kind of sort of what I was
getting up there. Maybe I was coming out from the wrong angle saying that if it's free, it's worthless.
But if there's no, if you don't have to pay for support, then the temptation is not to do so. Whereas
with Red Hat, there is no choice. Apart from CentOS, which is a different thing, whereas Ubuntu is
Ubuntu, whether you pay for support or not. I think part of it is that a lot of companies,
like especially my employer who I will not be naming, they use Red Hat. Well, I just hear the
Linux clusters because I'm on the Windows side development, unfortunately. And it has to be
commercially supported. That was one of the reasons that a lot of the sites I work on are using
IAS because Microsoft will support it. And yeah, we've made use of that. We have sent
dumps to Microsoft and they come back and analyze it. I mean, some enterprises have rules that say
you have to have support. And I think canonical should have been fine with that. Like they should
have done well with that model, you know, get Ubuntu installed. And then you have commercial support.
But as I've seen it, the infrastructure for things like enterprise level management has just
centered around Red Hat where you have big tools to do these huge installs, you know, the forest
management, tree management, you know, a server management where you're doing large install management.
Most of that is around Red Hat because they're the entrenched player. Canonical in Ubuntu is still
fairly new, you know, compared to Red Hat. So that stuff while it may be coming out or maybe there,
it's not where people go when they think enterprise Red Hat and enterprise Linux and Red Hat
has done a very good job of marketing themselves as that. They're the enterprise Linux situation.
Where does Susa come into this? I know that it's more popular in Europe, but it just doesn't seem
to get a look in in America. Well, the US, I suppose you would say. I haven't seen too many
Novel products used in, you know, I mean, the old Novel network, but I mean, I've seen Novel
IDM use. It's like a management tool for Active Directory, but I have not seen any Novel Linux
and styles in where I've been working. So I know Susa enterprise Linux server to be seen
told it. Nope. That very much backs up the stereotype then. I mean, you know, I'm an outsider
to this industry. I'm very much an enthusiast, I suppose, a reporter on it, maybe, you might say.
I'm not entrenched in it, but I hear that Susa is massive in Germany and to some extent
in the rest of Europe, whereas in America, well, you know, North America, it's just all about Red Hat.
Where is canonical in the amount of paid contracts? Are they, you know, like, forced behind Oracle
and ANSUSA? Well, canonical is still the private companies, so their finances are not for the public
record. So we don't know is the, the honest answer. We know they're bankrolled by a very rich man
who's been into space and everything, but it's not a public company, is it? They haven't done an
IPO and all the rest of it. So we simply don't know how they're doing financially. We can only
you know, speculate based on evidence from the few crumbs that they feed us, but we have no
idea. They could be very close to Red Hat. That seems incredibly unlikely, but we just don't know.
Well, I didn't mean in terms of income, though, it would, you know, it would follow that,
the one follows the other, but, you know, I was, you know, I was saying on the number of paid
support contracts, I would think they would publish that information that, you know, we're supporting
this many desktops out there. Well, number of desktops and number of contracts are different
numbers of 50. Well, that's true. Because the contract would hit, you know, the contract would be
for the whole enterprise, and then you'd have to figure out, you know, how many people are using
it within that enterprise. Not to mention the number of people who are using Ubuntu 4.3,
be it at home or in the enterprise, but absolutely no support at all apart from community forums
and mailing lists and ISE and that sort of thing. I think part of the problem too is the fact
that a lot of stuff just works. You don't get into crazy support unless you're doing something
really difficult with it or really interesting with it, like extremely high volume websites and
things like that. And then really a lot of it is your application code. Well, I mean self-support
is fine for small businesses and the individual customers. Just if you're in the tech in the office
and like my example, your server goes down and you don't know what to do other than it Google,
you know, it only takes one instance like that before management wants to have somebody else
that they can fall back on. And yeah, you'd probably be gone or you me or anybody in that situation.
Then the next guy would be a dolling up Red Hat. Not always. I mean, even if canonical has
support contracts, it's probably that the next course of action that would happen. I mean,
I've seen lots of instances where people, you know, heads rolled because the email servers are
going down and it was really this, they replace the personnel, not the product. A huge server migration
like that would cost money. So it might just be again, Red Hat is very entrenched. And I've seen,
I've heard stories of startups that start using everything free because it's free, you know,
startup culture. And then upper management makes some transition to Microsoft because that's
their, that's where the quote support is and we all know that we, everyone on this channel knows
it's BS, but still. Yeah, I haven't got one of those, well, because I'm doing all I tell communications
over the web or sell. But it's been a long time since I've got one of those. Hello, this is
Microsoft support and you have a virus phone calls. That's stopped recently. My dad used to get
them and, you know, one of my parents were using a bin too. And he just starts toying with them.
Or they could do like what I do, like when I get any kind of telemarketer call,
they get exactly one shot with me. All right, if I figure out who you are within two seconds,
I hang up and then I hit the block feature on my cell phone, which is really the only phone I
ever use anymore. The fun thing was I actually got one of those scammers and I fired up the sacrificial
think pad. And I mean, I was, it was so sacrificial. I went into a virtual terminal, you know,
the controlled F1 and made it so my wife's accounts still had pseudo access, but mine didn't
after I installed whatever remote control software they wanted. And that was poor bastard.
Let me tell you, once they got into, you know, it was a bog standard of Boone to install with one
little difference. All I did was hide the dock so that you needed to use a hot corner to find it.
And they started like hitting buttons and going through the settings tab and trying to get into
a terminal and it was five minutes of clarity. And the reason I say five minutes is because then
they stuck me on hold and I managed to go into the settings remote control program and
remove their ability to make changes and then the battery died in a think pad. I mean, it is
sacrificial, but any minute I'm, those people are messing with me and getting frustrated is a
minute they're not scamming somebody else who actually give them money. And it's a minute at least
just entertainment. It was funny. I wish I'd recorded it. So they actually do have
those guys have a remote software that runs on links or reuse it. Yeah, they just use like
log me in and use a code or whatever. And the funny thing is that the people who make log me in,
they don't like it when their product is used for such scams. So they will knock out people's
licenses for that shit. I would take this immediately when the desktop comes up, they're going to say,
hey, wait a minute, this isn't Windows. That was what I was hoping for. I didn't get it. Wow.
Must have been a really dumb guy. Oh, wait, hold on. We know people who have Linux will off the
transfer do a senior guy. I'm like, okay, sure. Great. They were looking for the terminal.
It hits it's all to F2. Team viewers probably use more for that than log me in though.
I'm seeing both. But even if they could get to a terminal, surely without the pseudo password,
they wouldn't be able to get very far, would they? They would try to social engineer for you to type it in.
But again, I went behind their back effectively by using the virtual terminal because
log me in does not share VT because it's basically a separate a separate display to the machine.
It's a whole separate log in and just took away my pseudo's access. I just removed myself in the
group, but because I had two log ins on the machine, I wasn't going to lock myself out of it.
I mean, a VM would have been easier to spin up, but I still had plenty of spare machines in the house.
I've been tempted before. I've had a call from that. I've been in the middle of something and I've
kind of been thinking to myself, should I? Shouldn't I? It might be quite funny. I could film it,
or at least we called the audio output on YouTube, but then I'm usually too busy. It's happened
probably two or three times to me, but oh, I suppose not in the last year, 18 months maybe.
So hopefully these things are dying away, but maybe they just get wise to the people who,
you know, maybe you get off the list if you seem slightly technical.
Yeah, I got a call once and I was like, thank you for calling and they hung up immediately,
but if you just say yes, okay, what? You know, like you've just played dumb and you play along,
that's what they're expecting. They're expecting people who don't question them. If you're too happy
to see them, then they just leave. I just think it's ironic the one time you get to talk to
tier two tech support is the scammers. That's because you have to pay for the pure two people.
I don't know. The one time I got all the tier three tech support at my ISP, I literally had to
spend 20 minutes explaining what port forwarding was to them. So that my experience wasn't great.
Comcast? No, time Warner, just as bad.
Worst, I would say. I think Comcast they know what port forwarding is because enough people ask them.
Yeah, well, I called my ISP the other day for tech support and usually, you know, during the week
day business hours, you actually get used to get one of their techs. And then after hours, weekends,
whatever, you get a guy who's just, you know, in a call center, some place and just recording stuff.
And they can actually get into the transceiver from their end and look at it. So they're not
completely clueless, but not as comfortable with that as I would be with one of the actually,
you know, people actually working directly for the company who installed the system and everything.
But yeah, that makes me glad that I may be switching ISPs after that experience this last week
and getting the call center guy in the middle of the business day.
I just wish my ISP would have the same name for more than six months without being bought by somebody
That's a bad sign. That's all right. I've had bad ISPs to the point where I was in a demo scene in
the 90s and there was a song floating around the internet called Fuck Bromes ISP. That's how bad it was.
Either they have it somewhere.
Wow, and there's me complaining that there's only one fiber provider to where I live and the rest
of the probably 20 or 30 other ISPs are only DSL fiber. What's that?
Oh, this was dial-up back in the day. You can, you know, feel older, young now,
and accordingly. Dare I say that? I've got 200 megabit down then.
Go ahead. You sound great upload. Yeah, upload, I think 13. Nice.
Well, since I work for one of those fine companies, I'm just not going to say anything.
There's the ham radio fall back for when the wires go down.
Now, when the wires go down, this fella sit here fixing him. I've been doing this a long time
and unlike some people in the industry, I really give a shit about my customers.
That sort of makes you rare breed and I appreciate you.
Too bad you're not running the company.
So, can we change topic completely if that's okay?
Are there any, we've talked about, you know, kind of server,
staff and a little bit of desktop. Can we move into the 21st century a little bit
and talk about mobile and where we think, you know, where we stand with the various
mobile OS is obviously iOS is of virtually no interest to anyone in this channel I would imagine.
But then, you know, Android and the whole soundage and mod and lineage thing,
and Firefox OS ties and Ubuntu, that kind of thing. Anyone interested in that kind of stuff?
Sure, but it's going to be fun. Sure, if you drain about Paul Com for a while.
Yes, I'm interested. I'm not sure that the conversation will not become depressing quite quickly,
but yes, I'm interested. We touched on that. Oh, I'm getting it.
It's iOS earlier today for a moment.
Well, I'm sort of looking forward to sandwich mod getting back to being, you know,
an actual mod rather than just like trying to, trying to be something that's not with a company.
But, you know, I appreciate it. This is really, you must have had a pretty old device then.
At the time I was running it on a Nexus S. Now, I think the latest phone they support is a
Galaxy S2. That's their best. That's two S3, maybe.
The replica can't be 100% free software because they can't connect to the cell network with
completely free software. Well, it's usually a separate processor. That was the biggest problem with
the the dream and the magic, which was the original Android phone, was the fact that the way they set
up the two processors, what they call the application processor and the baseband, was that the
baseband was the master processor. It wasn't like a modem connected by a serial line.
It was actually the fact that the application processor is bootstrapped by the baseband
processor. Think of like the Raspberry Pi, the video card is the one bootstrapping the application
processor. It's the same type of deal. The Nexus S was a high-speed serial line and the Galaxy
Nexus and the S2s were actually like serial port type things where it was really disconnected.
And yeah, you're only running free code on the application processor and half the like the
Wi-Fi and the Bluetooth didn't work unless you restored the firmware files, which were not free,
so they couldn't distribute them, but you could just pull them off of a working install or
the syngy mod install like that. So it was akin to fleshing the Google apps on top of the
S1 engine, but then you know, obviously feel a bit more and you know that that's there's a lot more
of a process you stuff already with the drivers and stuff in some of your models.
Well, syngy mod will ship binary drivers. They would ship a driver that needed for something
needed to work like the camera for example. And replicant would just be like, nope, I'm sorry,
you know, will reverse engineer the camera. I do remember with one of the phones that there
was something called Yamaha hell. It had to do the fact that certain Yamaha audio drivers
just were absolutely awful. And when the replicant project reverse engineer them,
syngy mod actually started using those drivers because they were better than the vendor-supported
crap that was being used. So it wasn't like this stuff happened in a vacuum, but you know,
code-flowing the other direction was very low, because it all had to be reversing.
I mean replicant's not something I've looked into for an awfully long time because my devices are
fairly new. I mean, I'm talking to you on a OnePlus 1 now, which by some standards is quite old,
but by replicant standards is quite new. So I mean, where is the replicant project now? Do you
know? I mean, is it still not really developed? There's still a mailing list, and there's people on
it, but I haven't run one in a while because every phone I've gotten since my Nexus S died.
You know, I went with the Moto G line, I had the original Moto G, I saw the list of binary files
in it and cried, just like the LG Nexus 4 had the same amount about.
This is anything with Qualcomm you're done. You're not running free software on those
devices at all. I mean, really, it has to come down with the way the Linux ARM support is.
It's just the board support packages are terrible. Even worse with MediaTek, isn't it?
I wouldn't know, but I'm going to assume yes. There aren't any processes. There aren't any ARM
boards, really. I mean, even the Raspberry Pi, which is, I mean, I know there are proper free software
you know, open hardware boards available, but the Raspberry Pi is the kind of poster child,
but even that is not 100% free software, is it? No, and it will never be, unless you can replace
the video card firmware, and good luck with that. It's why I won't buy one. Everybody
else talks about like the greatest things in the world, and it's like, you do realize it's a crappy
video processor, a crappy application processor sitting on top of a video card, right? And it's
just to sell these boards. Well, a conspiracy theorist perhaps might, might say that they don't,
the Raspberry Pi Foundation don't care at all about free software, and they just want to
sell their machines. Someone who is less conspiratorially minded might say that they only care about
getting these boards in front of children and teaching them to code, and they are incredibly
pragmatic about that, and they don't necessarily care whether it runs completely free software,
they will take advantage of the fact that they can run Debian effectively on it, but the
it's software freedom is not high on their agenda. Well, I would tell you where of,
as I have a friend who picked one of these up, and he wanted to use the Xbox One controller with
Retro Pi, and we spent quite some time looking for the right kernel headers, because there's like,
so that you can use the DKMS system to compile your own drivers, because he wanted to use an Xbox
One Gamepad with it. The 360 Gamepad is very well supported for what he was doing with it.
The One Gamepad, you are so out, and I could not find anything. I could not find any kernel headers
for anything past 4.1. I was like, if Raspberry Pi cares about free software and getting kids to
code, then they must be talking about application code, because if you're going to do any kernel
level hacking and you don't publish the proper kernel headers, you're done. Just stop there.
And so I think the Pi and Raspberry Pi. The Pi and Raspberry Pi stands for Python, or as you
would say, Python. They are not talking about low-level stuff at all. They're not even talking about
compiling things, really. Now that you can do a bit of Java stuff on it, but they're talking about
interpreted very high-level stuff. And I would argue that if you're going to teach somebody how to
compile and they want to go high and now they're limited by your hardware, your tool has only
gone so far and it's not as effective. You can easily imagine a situation where a kid who's
been programming for a while now wants to do something more in-depth or use the hardware in a
different way, and software freedom is really the only way to go with it. As I said, I don't think
it's a bad process. I won't buy any for myself. Yeah, that makes sense, totally. I mean, the
thing is that you have a lot of other alternative boards with varying degrees of freedom. I'm not
sure there are any that are completely free, but the thing about the Raspberry Pi is that it is
so well supported, I suppose. I mean, not only are there, I think, however many million there are,
I can't remember now, if it's five or ten, or you know, there are enormous number of these things
that are out there in the wild, and therefore there's a huge community there to support it. There
are a huge number of images available for it, including the official one, Raspberry Un, which
I have some doubts about some of the security settings, certainly some of the defaults on that,
but there are also other, you know, straight-up GNU social Linux distros for it, like a bunch of
Marta and other flavors. But then there's other stuff like Risco S, and you know, it's just so well
supported, that that is why it's done so well, I think, because it's just the network effect.
Well, and I, because I totally get what Brom saying, like, and I wish I could be that guy.
My whole thing with the Raspberry Pi is, is because it is so well supported, it's very easy to get
money to buy them, especially in educational realm, like they just have a lot of name recognition now,
and since all our kids have Chromebooks, I can't really hand them a flash drive and say,
here, this is Linux, this is a real operating system, this is how you, you know, actually do things
on a computer. I can hand a kid a Raspberry Pi, and they just take it home and plug it into their,
you know, their TV, because it's HDMI, and that gives them kind of a doorway in that, because most
of the kids I have don't have computers at home, like they just have their laptop to school gate.
So it's kind of, I'm dancing with the devil I know to kind of push the agenda that I want to push,
but it is because they're so big and they're so recognizable right now, and they're,
they are the darling of the educational community, so they're really easy to get a hold of.
If I wanted to say, I don't think they're any better, if I went to my administration and said,
hey, I need to buy 30 O Droids C2s, they'd probably be like, you need what? If I go to my administration
and say, I need 30 Raspberry Pi, so they're like, okay,
but so you're telling me that you can't install CBIOS and, you know, get all that stuff going on
in the Chromebooks, yeah, right, as if they're going to let you do that. Oh, they can, and I have
had kids that do, and I instantly hug them and tell them that they're awesome, but then I have to
wipe it and set it back to what it was. Right, because it's not their device, it's for their use,
there is a difference. Oh, the people work with it. That is, that is the difference between, like,
say, my company issued iPhone 6 Plus, which is really, you know, ostensibly for testing,
and I do nothing with it. And my Moto G4, which, you know, I'm pretty close to software,
you know, unlocking and playing with. It's one is my device and one is for my use.
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the draconian paperwork, we make the parent sign for the laptops that
we give them. It's, it's ridiculous, but they signed it. So, and it's my job to enforce it,
which sucks. And yeah, whereas the Raspberry Pi 3 is only $35, isn't it? It's, at that point,
it's, it's not disposable, but compared to the price of a Chromebook, which has got to be
$100 plus at least, I mean, maybe even $152.00. Oh, the kids that I teach, well, I did teach,
I don't anymore. They took it away from me. So I could teach another math class when we go back,
next week, but I was teaching like a Python programming class. And so we were using little web
based Python IDs to do things. And the kids would get so frustrated by it because it was like six
layers of junk on top of itself, just to, just to get this to run in the browser. And then I'm kind
of like, hey, come here. And I just hand them a Raspberry Pi. I'm like, go home, plug this in,
plug in your keyboard mouse and do some real coding. And it got to the point where the kids were
literally bringing them in to school and plugging that we would go to an old computer lab and they
would unplug the other computers and plug these in so they could actually do coding to get that
done. And I mean, yeah, it's way disposable. And the parents can't afford to go buy a computer,
but they can usually scrunch up 35 bucks. And if they can't, I've got a box of them that I bought
for that purpose. Staying out. Do you like the connectivity in terms of the fact that it's HGMI
only and it doesn't support VGA? I mean, you talk about the old computer lab there, presumably
those screens with VGA needed some sort of converter there. I have an entire box of VGA to HGMI
converters because when we, when we gave the teachers their Chromebooks, because they're their
main machine is a Chromebook now, to connect it to all the projectors and stuff in the building
because all that was wired to the walls and stuff, it was already VGA. So we had to have, we bought
probably 200 of these little adapters. So I just have a bunch of things around.
I was going to say, yeah, I think they cost like six bucks a piece or so. I mean, it was,
it was ridiculously cheap to buy a bunch of them.
You've been listening to hecopobligradio at hecopobligradio.org. We are a community podcast network
that releases shows every weekday Monday through Friday.
Today's show, like all our shows,
was contributed by an HPR listener like yourself.
If you ever thought of recording a podcast
and click on our contributing
to find out how easy it really is.
HECCA Public Radio was founded by the digital dog pound
and the Infonomicom Computer Club
and is part of the binary revolution at binrev.com.
If you have comments on today's show,
please email the host directly.
Leave a comment on the website
or record a follow-up episode yourself.
Unless otherwise stated,
today's show is released under
Creative Commons,
Attribution,
ShareLife,
3.0 license.