hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr2515.txt

Episode: 2515
Title: HPR2515: 2017-2018 New Years Eve show part 2
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr2515/hpr2515.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-19 04:43:45

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This is HBR episode 2,515 entitled HBR 2017 New Year's Eve Show Part 2.
It is hosted by Marius Post and is about 169 minutes long and carries an explicit flag.
The summary is Part 2 on the 6th annual HBR New Year show.
This episode of HBR is brought to you by archive.org.
Support universal access to all knowledge by heading over to archive.org forward slash donate.
Thank you very much.
Can you put it with your Mayan battery into regular battery recycling guys?
As far as I know, yes, Ken.
I've taken all kinds of batteries to my battery recycler and I've never gotten told by them that one or the other was disallowed.
And there is a person there, so yeah.
Although I never asked, I didn't ask, but I showed them the batteries and they were fine with whatever I brought.
Cool. Thank you. But I'll check.
Yeah, you should check and then you can do show on it.
Mike check.
No, I've just done the show. The show will consist of you.
You can slash cannot bring batteries to the thing in the Netherlands in my specific region, in my specific town.
That's the good point.
I've heard in Colorado that the bins will like find you there like automatic bins there that will be able to detect
what kind of thing that you put in which bin and then you'll get a fine automatically.
So I've heard how do they identify you retina scans?
I, this is all second hand.
Big brother, they're always watching through the bins and the smart bugs and the smart bugs.
You have this thing here where they, you could put your plastic and your tins and stuff into the regular bin and they had it.
Then they ran a pilot, a pilot to see whether if they had a separate bin for plastics and, and tins and stuff.
It was actually less efficient to do it, but they still did it because they wanted to make people aware of all the plastic and packaging that they use.
So that's the thing.
So tap is versus spaces?
No, it's all like spaces.
When we go to that, no spaces.
Okay, what's the, give me the argument.
Pro, what is the pro tab argument?
It's easier.
It's your keystrokes.
I mean, legitimately, it's just fewer keystrokes to indent enough of your code.
I just really set up your editor that the tab puts in for keystrokes space.
Press the tab key, it's four spaces.
Oh, I like that.
I like that.
Okay, so with an argument like that, I don't have one, but I've used tab for so long and I can't see that as cheating, honestly.
It just seems like the tab is, it's, it's using a unique symbol or a thing, you know, entity for something that already exists.
And I don't see the, I don't see why we do that.
Like, I can see hitting the tab key for four spaces, but I don't see using a tab instead of four spaces because four spaces exist.
So why are we, why do we have a, we're duplicating entities?
Autoscrypt.
What is autoscrypt?
A term or a thing.
This is an early data compression.
Okay.
I just, why, why, why should you do one thing over and over and over and over when you can just do it?
If there's already a pre, I mean, it's in the standard keyboard, I would believe.
Yeah, but it's not, it's not, it's not that it's, it's why, why the duplication, I mean, because you're saying why would you hit the key four times instead of hitting a key once?
But Ken has solved that now.
So what, why do we, why is there a still a tab character in our, in our, in our asky set or whatever?
Like, why does that exist?
Why don't we just all use space characters instead of tab characters?
Because if you tab in a word document, for example, I would go ballistic if people were using spaces for variable fonts.
Whereas you can put in a tab and you can go left and then to write and then and then you change your font and you're positioning remains the same.
Good point.
So, but for code, the problem with code is the reason to use spaces over tabs, which is the traditional argument via the next type of thing, is that tabs will get messed up when you go from one system to the next where spaces tend to be uniform to the font.
Non proportional font fixed with font that people tend to use.
So spaces tend to be preserved whereas tabs don't.
That's it.
That's the reason.
But yeah, good answer.
Not in documents.
And I haven't even, I haven't run into that years.
Of course, I'm also the guy that uses via to so.
I hadn't run into it ever and then at my old job, I had sent someone a Python file and he was complaining that I'd used.
The one or not the and not the other.
And and it was the first time I'd ever run into it and I think it's the last time I've ever run into it.
But it was such a weird issue to run into and I just thought, well, why is anyone using tab at all? Like I just never occurred to me.
It's been on the operation.
That's why it's just part of the typewriter to I think that's that's also a big part of it.
Yeah, yeah, I guess.
Yeah.
Like you said, it's there.
It's on the keyboard.
It's standard on the keyboard.
So why wouldn't people use it?
And I think another thing can be for people.
If you're looking, say, if you're not AFK, then maybe your vision starts the blur and it might be easier to denote a tab rather than three or four space.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you're getting down to, you know, I'm using a space for the and then two spaces for this and three space if you're.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm just seeing how Bitcoin is doing this morning.
How deep are you into the Bitcoin?
Oh, so I invested 200 bucks when it was down at $2,000.
Nice.
And then I also invested like 300 bucks in a hash blur.
And that has already returned on my investments.
I've made a small amount, not a ton, but I've made a small amount.
I sold some when it was at 20,000.
So we made our money back and then some.
That's pretty nice.
Yeah.
It was good for WikiLeaks too.
Since Visa and Mastercard being the good corporate nation states that they are.
When they cut off funds, people could only donate with Bitcoin.
So now we he leaks out.
Oh.
Like I was more interested in Bitcoin when it was an alternative currency.
Then I am interested in it now that it is sort of a, I guess a.
For real life money just means it's like it's that I don't want to bother with the real money.
Like I want there to be a currency that we can use online that has meaning for us online.
But that that is external of of the stuff that you make when you go to your day job.
And I don't know.
Maybe what is that?
Tell me more.
I'm interested.
I haven't heard it now.
So I don't know.
I thought it was doggo coin.
It's.
You're probably right.
Sorry.
Go ahead.
Doggy coin.
Doggy.
Yeah.
It's doggy coin.
It's essentially just a decentralized peer-to-peer currency that enables you to send a million
easy online.
But it has no basis in actual.
Although people are buying it just like Bitcoin.
That's what I was going to say.
Yeah.
I mean like eventually if it can be.
You know, you can't divorce it from real world money because people will.
You can't control what they're going to do.
If if if I sell you my dog E coin then that's then that's just happened.
There's a market there now.
Yeah.
And that I don't think you're ever going to find any currency.
That's exempt from that because.
Yeah.
No, you're right.
I'm sure.
I mean, people do this with government or other countries money as well.
Like, oh, let me buy Taiwanese.
Dude, somebody else, please press record because I'm the only one recording the stream.
My laptop crashes.
It's gone.
Oh, okay.
Hold on.
Sorry to interrupt you there.
But I just.
No worries.
Thanks, Kasper.
I'll set mine up and just leave myself in here when I leave.
We're just going to offload it to a different galaxy anyway.
Don't always ask the C.I.U. for a copy afterwards.
Well, that's what Amazon's there for, right?
I'm assuming a down mix is okay.
Correct.
Yeah.
Once you get to this, you can't be dealing with flag files.
Analog is fine.
I'm also recording the stream.
But if anything happens to that, it's best to have some other copy somewhere else.
There we go.
We can always file an FOIA request.
FOIA Freedom of Information Act.
Yeah.
That one can go over to all the states.
You're being an American.
Fuck yeah.
Oh, now we have to mark this as explicit.
We already did a long time ago.
Okay.
Two minutes in.
We were done with that.
Oh, okay.
All right, good.
Get it out of the way early.
It's good.
Yeah.
You know, four hours and 36 minutes into Hacker Public Reading live streaming.
We have Josh, an honest host, and not a very honest host.
Host with the most.
Some would say.
Here with us.
Isn't Beetlejuice the host with the most though?
Right.
I need to see that movie again.
It's been years.
Michael Keaton.
Someone says it's the real Batman.
They also might say he's Mr. Mom.
Wow.
Or, or, or there could be duplicate versions of him.
You know, this is true.
I would explain why there's a birdman and a vulture.
Hmm.
Oh, you know, we have some serious Michael Keaton fans on the line right now.
Folks.
This is exciting.
Didn't know there are people who followed him that closely.
Don't really have to follow him closely.
I mean, he.
He does a fair amount of movies.
Think it just shows how old I'm kidding.
The Mr. Mom reference was, was pretty, pretty good.
That was, that was really drawing from a wealth of knowledge.
I think it's just hidden a certain alien generation point.
I think.
I actually watched the old, the, the, the, what do you call it?
The original Batman or whatever.
The Michael Keaton Batman.
And it was actually not a very good movie.
Like the, the one with Batman and Joker.
Oh.
It's like, I mean, it's not, it's not a bad movie.
It's just kind of, it's slow.
It's like really pretty slow.
It's campy.
It was intended to be campy at the time.
Because I mean, before that, you had Adam West.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Have you ever danced with a devil and the pale moon?
Oh, geez.
Yeah.
That, that was so painful to get through that part.
You got to do your technical sit impression though when you say that though.
This town needs an animal.
I can't do it.
Oh, that wasn't bad actually.
Be better.
We, we strive to do better, strive to be honest.
That's actually, this is actually the second, technically, second Jack Nicholson reference
of the evening because the, the early morning, whatever it is.
Because, uh, easy writer was mentioned earlier on.
And people who know that movie will know that Jack Nicholson started his career in that.
Yes.
Apocalypse now.
I'm sorry.
I, no, I, I, I hopped on.
Okay.
Wasn't that right before one flew over the kookus nest?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so.
Yeah.
Don't talk.
You don't want to talk too much or else Nurse Ratchet will come at you.
Yeah.
With her ice pick.
Just ice.
Injustice.
All right.
Keep it going.
Lying.
Subscribe to her.
Or is YouTube the devil?
I just can't.
Yeah.
I can't be bothered to watch things.
Still, I mean, like for a little while, I was watching some movies.
Yeah.
I can't be bothered to watch things.
Still, I mean, like for a little while, I was watching some shows on YouTube, but I'm, I'm
glad I put all those, uh, show notes with all those movies that I'm working on.
Yeah.
No.
No, it's just because when I'm working, I can, I can usually listen to something, but I can't,
I can't actually watch it at the same time.
You know, so audio is kind of key for me.
That's, I, I usually will just have the video.
Yeah.
I think that sounds really cool.
Then I'll watch it.
Um, film theory and game theory are both ones that, uh, I enjoy it.
So I'll occasionally watch those, but usually it's just playing in the background.
And I like listening about different things.
I'd not heard of either of those two game theory sounds like something I would very much enjoy, though.
It's fun to watch some of the old ones.
I think about YouTube.
There's a.
Go ahead, Ken.
That's the thing about YouTube.
You can find a niche for everything.
Yeah, true.
Well, since you're in California, uh, Josh, I, I would recommend Jimmy Dore.
Jimmy Dore.
Let me look him up real quick.
Jimmy Dore show broadcasting from Sam Bernardino on in the belly of the beast.
You've got Lee Camp, but he's on RT.
So it's all, it's, that's Russia.
Even though he's, even though he's American and his, uh, his name is Lee after, uh, Lee Harvey.
No, not Lee.
Uh, generally south.
Yeah.
I know.
There are a ton of people named after him.
Yeah.
So I mean, like he didn't even know that he has.
It's like all the good, uh, all the good, honest, uh, broadcasters end up on RT because
any, any corporate.
And if you speak against the corporation, they'll kick you off.
Um, but as happened with Ed Schultz, uh, he just, he was on.
I think MSNBC and then he talked about TPP and the kicked him off.
Phil Donahue was against the Iraq war, even though he was the highest rated show at the
time, kicked him off.
Uh, you know, you get all these people and if they're good, I mean, even if they're, they're
making money if it's speaking against the agenda of the, our benevolent overlords, uh,
they even paid, uh, Jesse Ventura had a show lined up with, uh, I think MSNBC already
to go.
And then, uh, they found out he was an anti-war.
So they, they, they paid him a million dollars just like walk away.
So.
Jeez.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's good money to, to walk away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We can't be in one of his shows.
He's like, man, he's like, I wish I was that annoying.
I'm like, oh, I want that, I want that, I want to be that annoying.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, the Philip DeFranco Show, if you're looking for some feedback on like things that you
might have missed, I found that one to be a pretty good channel to watch.
What's it called?
Philip DeFranco Show.
I've heard that name.
Maybe I'm thinking of an actor with the same name.
Yeah.
DeFranco is also, uh, one of the guys in, not James.
Yeah.
No.
Well, that's it.
Yeah.
Plenty of the years.
Yeah.
Thinking of Philip DeFranco.
No relation.
Okay.
He's, uh, he's out for a while.
Philly Dee is, uh, his back behind the scenes channel.
But, uh, he's a startup business sort of, uh, focusing on doing news and things that might
slip through the cracks.
Um, with him, don't go watch his old stuff.
His old stuff is horrible.
He used to wear the, uh, poker shells, poker shells, and he was a little bit of a douche.
But he is.
It's a little white necklaces that are made out of shells.
People used to wear it.
Uh, okay.
Uh, I'm guilty as charged.
I used to do that in high school.
But you're, you know, you are in California.
So you have something, you know, California does strange people.
It's just strange things.
But I grew up in Michigan.
So.
Oh, then you have no excuse.
No.
You were just trying to fit in.
I was just trying to be cool in high school.
And I looked back and I was like, God, I'm such a loser.
Yeah, there's, there's, there's hemp necklaces.
Uh, didn't, he didn't wear well.
He either got all itchy.
Ugh.
Why did I put this on?
It's sort of rough on the skin.
But then you ate it and you felt better.
Yeah, it's hemp.
So, you know, it's got to be cool.
Now, I wasn't part of that group.
I wasn't the hippies.
For the small town I lived in, we had a really interesting mashup people.
It's funny.
I mean, Michigan, I only think of Detroit.
Like I, like, I know that there are other places in Michigan.
But I have no concept of what the rest of the state is like.
I heard there are, there's only, it's like an eight mile circumference in Michigan.
You're thinking of Maconov Island.
Yes.
Yeah.
I've spent a couple summers there.
Gorgeous, gorgeous island.
Um, there are no cars.
So you will either walk red horse or ride a bike.
Wow.
Interesting.
I have a question, Josh.
Shoot.
The Philip DeFranco.
What, what frightens me here?
I'm just looking at the YouTube age.
I mean, kids, attention deficit.
It's like stuff.
Oh, he knows.
Oh, he's got the guy.
He's got the Logan Paul guy on the second video.
I don't want to, I don't want to see that.
So he actually talks about why people are like his thumbnails are a little click baity.
But that's because that's what works.
And he has to employ people like he doesn't.
He's got.
I want to say 10 people know under his employee.
That do editing that do research.
Do the whole thing.
So they're actually trying to set up a like a startup news network.
So the clickbait icons unfortunately work.
So it's one of those things like.
Either do what works or you don't.
He's also got like probably five million bots also working under his employee.
I'm just kidding.
He's got 5.8 million subscribers.
So that's a little little like.
It would be too popular for me to as you're just playing with.
But you know, it's like hipster to you know.
Yeah, gotcha gotcha.
Yeah, it's.
It's a good one to catch things at least for me that I might have missed.
Especially since I don't have a whole lot of time to.
Sit through multiple news channels trying to sift through the facts.
Okay.
So it's a good one to at least get your attention brought to things.
And he covers things all over the place.
So it's not just like what's in your mainstream news.
But he'll also cover YouTube specific news.
He was the guy who called attention to one of the parent exploit channels.
A channel is called daddy of daddy O five.
And he would prank some of his kids and one of his kids had a serious issue.
I figured what they said it was.
But he would get very nervous and start stammering.
And they full blown yelled and screamed and recorded while they did this.
Because they used ink, like disappearing ink on the carpet.
And the kids just having a full blown meltdown.
And they were trying to justify, oh, it's not abused.
They want to do this.
So he covers more than just your mainstream media stuff.
And I like hearing about other things.
But it's almost covering coverage.
It's like meta coverage.
Almost.
He's like a YouTube TV guide.
Yeah, that is kind of YouTube's part of YouTube's market though.
Isn't it kind of YouTube?
The whole sort of the YouTube sort of crowd commenting and interacting about YouTube?
Isn't it?
I mean, that's kind of my impression.
And you're not far off from that.
But I kind of like that.
It's kind of like a feed aggregator for me.
I see.
So you don't have to go through YouTube.
You can just look at the YouTube TV guide, which is Philip DeFranco.
Sort of.
Yeah.
But it's not just YouTube news.
That was just an example.
He does stuff that I would have never called.
Like the Keen Jones.
I don't know if you guys heard about that.
Or the kid got a...
I agree.
In that case, I didn't catch any of that.
It just completely flew under my radar.
And then you start hearing about the other side.
So he...
But is one kid getting teased bigger than, you know, earthquake or things?
Oh, I'm not saying it's bigger.
But it's nice to hear about other things other than how stupid our president is sometimes.
No, I agree with that.
And that's why I was pointing to Jimmy Doer, because they don't talk about the president.
If you were to turn on media, that's all you're...
It's like from news network.
That's all you're going to hear about.
And people are like, oh my god.
I can't believe they put a truck in front of where he's golfing.
I'm just thinking...
I'm like...
They did.
He's...
And the...
Obviously.
Especially out here in California.
I get to live those...
Like CNN, BBC News, MSNBC.
If any, a good laugh, I'll go hit up Fox.
Just because...
To check out our international...
Yeah, BBC's...
They're not bad.
But like Al Jazeera...
Like if you want to...
Some people will describe it.
If you want to hear news about Russia, you would watch US News.
If you want to hear news about US, you would watch RT.
If you want to...
Al Jazeera is a good middle ground.
I think they cover kind of everything.
I do frequent Al Jazeera too.
It's just one of the ones I couldn't think of.
It's now just turning 7 o'clock for me.
Yeah, I got to drop off here as well.
Some other alien business to attend to here.
But...
Maybe I'll be back.
Who knows?
Yeah.
Thanks for doing the show notes, by the way.
I did what I could.
It's excellent.
Being honest.
Like Josh.
I appreciate you, Kasper.
Well, I'll leave it recording.
And I'll transmit it to...
The other galaxy.
But thank you guys.
And maybe I'll...
Maybe I'll talk to you later.
Never know.
Yeah, catch you later.
Alright.
Peace.
See you next year, bye.
Scanning is boring, guys.
Scanning is boring.
I think I might have a go.
I'll put them this transistor tester together that I bought.
Actually, I got from SID.
Why do you need to test transistors?
Is this for the radio stuff?
Or do you just general electronics?
Yeah, it's for...
You can put in...
Anything into a resistor is a capacitor.
And it'll tell you what value it is.
Oh, I think it's a transistor.
No, yeah, transistor.
Oh.
It's a transistor tester.
It started off as a generic thing for testing transistors.
And then it'll identify which one it is.
And then it...
It can do loads of other stuff as well.
So pretty cool.
Cool.
So do you guys have a good Christmas?
Yeah, I guess so.
Not a bad Christmas.
Christmas is so weird.
It's just such a weird, weird holiday.
You know, the whole switching, your exchanging gifts,
it just feels so strange as an adult.
Like, as a kid, like, that's the only time you're going to get something new.
Is it Christmas?
So it makes sense.
Well, maybe you're birthday.
But as an adult, it's just like, I could have gotten this from myself.
What are we doing?
What if you're birthday and Christmas are the same day?
I have a hobby birthday.
Oof.
Yeah, mine's coming up here in a few days.
So a lot of times as a kid, I got combination gifts.
Yeah, that's the worst.
I might, my little sister had that as well.
Well, my family, my sisters,
and I decided that we weren't going to exchange gifts for ourselves.
We were just going to get one for our grandmother and grandfather,
and then our parents.
Yeah, that's the way to do it.
You know, it wasn't like super extensive ones either.
It was just like, here's ones that took us time.
Not one need to do.
They really love those.
I took some nice photos of all of us.
Yeah, that sort of thing makes a lot more sense to me.
I think it's weird when people feel super obligated to exchange something.
And especially now that I've moved across like several oceans
where people are sending me stuff from overseas.
And they pay as much in shipping as they did on the item that they send.
You know, just like, I could have just gotten this locally.
Thank you, but let's not do this anymore.
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
It's, I think, as an adult,
you become more cognizant of the cost of Christmas
and what this person should be.
Yeah.
And as you get older, you see the traditions that have been added every time?
Mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Man, that is weird stuff.
Yeah.
Keep trying to start that traditional watch die hard.
Never.
Actually, that's not, yeah, that seems to be,
oh, is that a real thing?
Are you kidding?
Oh, no, I try every year to get my family to sit down and watch die hard.
We may talk to you about 45.
Yeah, you're not so serious.
Oh, that's funny, because that's a thing here in New Zealand.
And I thought it was just a weird New Zealand thing.
But people, yeah, people actually talk about watching die hard at Christmas.
I remember when I was allowed to watch Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
No, no, it's die hard.
I hate that movie so much.
Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
Just needs to die.
As a kid, I remember thinking that that was a really cool
because it could go in the water or something, right?
I thought that was amazing.
Or it could fly.
It was, yeah.
Anything you needed to do it could do.
But as a, yeah, when I tried to watch it,
I guess it was an adult.
I mean, I didn't try to sit down.
But I saw it on, you know, on someone's TV or whatever.
And I was just so stupid.
It's like, what, what, how did it even, even young me?
How did I think this was cool?
Yeah.
I, I have nightmares about the imagination back there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nightmares.
That's, that's nightmares about Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
That's unique.
So again, showing how old I am.
Here in the States, there was, there's a channel called USA.
And when I was a kid, Gilbert Godfrey hosted up all night.
And it'd be horror movies.
Oh.
And as a kid, I could not sleep at all.
So I ended up watching the first part of some movie
where toxic waste got dumped into the school's water supply.
And this kid just starts, like, morphing in.
I thought it was toxic adventure.
But toxic, it wasn't toxic.
It wasn't toxic adventure anyway.
Movie scared living daylights out of me.
So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna watch Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
And I fell asleep while watching Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
And the two movies kind of meshed in my dreams.
And so now, I'm just scarred for Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
That's really funny.
So technically, it's not a nightmare about Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
But it is a nightmare about Chichi Chichi Bang Bang.
Yeah.
Yeah, I had something similar happen.
And then a place in the job that I didn't really want to be in.
For two years and then ended up buying a bottle of vodka
and watching Bambi.
And then I decided the next morning to print off my CV
and get the hell out of that time.
Yeah, that's rough.
So Dad put into chat another topic.
He's curious about the thoughts of hacking community
on robots taking our jobs.
I don't think that's a problem.
I think we need to work.
We could come up with better things to do than what.
If a robot can do it, then I think we've successfully conquered that realm.
And the next ideal step is to then progress.
We find something new and better to put our efforts towards.
The problem is I think that the human race just isn't actually interested in that sort of thing.
That's where the problem lies.
Yeah.
It's not the replacement of the thing.
Yeah.
You put it on one.
Full of ties though.
So on this topic, I saw a thing about how many people were employed by IBM back in the day
versus the many people employed by the likes of Google.
You know, companies with the same net worth at the time.
How many people they were employing.
There are 10% of the people that were employed by general motors forward IBM.
If you compare that with Facebook, Twitter, and whoever.
So there's a need for 90% less people, but these people are still around.
So that's fine.
What you say about replacing people with automation.
But then you need to do something else to tackle the social crisis that's going to occur as a result of that.
And people being disenfranchised.
And we were talking on the community news as well about universal social income.
Maybe that is the solution.
And so my take on it is I'm lazy when it comes to being this admin.
If I can script it, I will script it.
I don't like having to sit in front of his computer screen for hours doing the same thing.
If I can script it, I'll script it.
And so that's a little bit like a robot.
Where I think we have to worry about it is in for the states at least are more rural areas.
Because you're seeing more automation in cars and farming and things like that.
So people aren't having to work or can't work because the robot has legitimately taken their job.
But they don't know anything else.
So now the farm owner or the shop doesn't want to get rid of the robot because they don't pay the robot.
They may have to pay for maintenance and upkeep.
And that's everybody's response to, well, we'll just teach them how to maintain the robots.
You don't need the same number of people maintaining those robots.
And on top of it.
So there are less jobs.
So what do you do?
Exactly.
And that becomes another piece of it.
Oh, computers will at least not in our lifetime be to the point where they can go off and troubleshoot issues at the same level of human care.
I mean, watch Google's AI.try and run.
If you watch them try and run, you'll realize we don't have anything to worry about at least for the next 100 years.
Have you seen the latest ones?
The last ones I saw looked like a man trying to like do lift our push-ups in the air while he was running.
I mean, good.
Well, I was just going to say I just don't, I think that there's plenty to be done on this planet.
It's just where people aren't, I guess it's not marketable for those things to get done.
But I think there's plenty of work to go around.
We just, we need to figure out a way to make people be okay with doing those things.
I don't think it's even getting them to be okay necessarily.
It's the, some of those jobs aren't available in the area for starters.
Yeah, that's true.
And then to follow up, say you've got somebody who's been a line worker for the last 30 years.
Are they legitimately going to be able to get skilled in proficient enough in a new job
versus somebody who's 30 years younger than them starting out doing that same job
and will be around for 30, 40 years to do that job.
So it's, I think it's on the sense of robots replacing people.
I think it should be the businesses goal to, okay, this is a path we're going down.
We need to start training our people as we're going down this path to ensure that they still have jobs.
But businesses don't have that kind of dedication to their employees anymore.
And that's kind of sparked the jump ship, jump ship culture of the millennials.
Because if a millennial stays at a job for more than five to ten years, that's all the time for them now.
And they'll just jump for the fact that they've been at the same place for five to ten years.
Previous generations would stay there until they retired.
Yeah, and I think all of that is kind of mentality.
Well, no, I was, I mean, yeah, I was just going to say that I think that that's part of the larger problem
is that there's no, yeah, there's not really a path of, there's not a career path.
You know, it's just like, get a gig, get a gig, get a gig, and it's not the people's fault.
It's more like a cultural problem, I think.
And maybe the solution is like Josh says for the businesses to take it upon themselves to make sure that they're,
that they're grooming their employees for the next big thing.
Or maybe it's something that, you know, maybe it's something that businesses shouldn't have to worry about.
And it should be something else.
But it, that's, I think that's the main problem.
I don't think it's the robots problem.
Well, the robots are coming.
So they're, well, robots automation.
I doubt the robot is going to be sitting behind the, the cab of the truck.
The trucks are just going to drive themselves.
Eventually, there will be no cabs at all.
It'll just be freight containers driving down the road.
Yeah.
So that's happening.
So anybody in those skill jobs are gone.
It's like far years of days a year and borrow makers of days a year.
Those jobs are gone.
They're not going to be coming back.
Sorry, but the problem is in days of your, there was a whole, you go from work in an agriculture to work in an industry.
But now the actual number of jobs is shrinking.
The number of available paying working positions is diminishing.
It's a simple fact.
And so how do we deal with that?
That's the question.
And I don't, I don't think it's enough to say to businesses because businesses, it's not their problem.
They will hire whoever they need to hire and they're not required to hire anymore or less than that.
Yeah.
And I agree.
That's why I was going to say if the businesses don't want to take the, because again, we don't have that loyalty to the employee and first and loyalty to the business.
Maybe it's something that the community starts doing.
We just had to start up here, open up shop and they're doing community driven education.
It's kind of like a physical version of like those online classes that are run by the community.
You mean like those online courses?
Are you talking about or what?
I'm trying to remember the name of the stupid site.
It's almost like a dual lingo where you're dealing with somebody on the other end that wants to learn your language.
Okay.
Same kind of concept except so this company will, you pay for a class.
And it's not super expensive, but you get to learn the basics in HTML.
And it's run by somebody in the community who already has this skill.
And so, oh, I have a skill that I want to teach other people like, I can't tell you how many people my age don't know how to change a damn tire.
The millennials just, they don't know how to do it.
They don't want to change their brakes.
They don't know how to change their oil.
I'm on the older end of millennials, but it's just like, come on guys.
Working, woodworking, things like that.
There are arts and like being creative is something the machine won't necessarily be able to pick up.
I see maybe some return to creative aspects, trying to get them to write a novel, trying to, things like that, teaching.
That might be where we see some of those jobs returning because you may not be able to afford the robot plumber that comes to your house.
Or you just may not want to pay for it because you have better things to do with your money.
It's a point.
This is a tech sector.
Obviously it's going to start better.
I don't know, kind of disappointed me in a lot of different ways.
You know, it was supposed to make things so much better.
And it's just kind of, it's not always having that effect and sometimes it's remarkably to that.
So yeah, I think, and people are, I mean, it's not just technology's fault, I don't think.
I think a lot of people are being stupid about how they use technology and sort of letting technology take advantage of them.
But I think that some backlash against this is probably going to be necessary because otherwise, yeah, I don't, I don't see this going down.
I don't think that we're going to see some backlash.
And you're already seeing some of it when people bring up the fact that Alexa was used to convict somebody of a crime because there's always recording and Amazon has all these recordings.
And when people start realizing that these devices that are your smart devices, they're always listening yourself on if you have voice recognition turned on.
It's always listening to you. It's always listening for that keyword. Alexa, Google, hell, the Roomba, they updated their privacy policy, put their newer models, they have a camera on top.
And it actually, their privacy policy, I think, might still have it, but they can go off and sell to other companies, the layouts of your house.
And while that may not seem a big deal based on how certain things are laid out, a company could guess where your TV is, even the size of your TV, how frequently you have to clean things like that.
Imagine if Alexa had that information, Amazon had that information. Now they're able to go off and kind of predict what you'd need.
Don, I can hope. I mean, I would hope that eventually there'd be enough outreach or outcry for privacy over convenience, but who knows.
Yeah, I don't own any sort of smart devices or internet of thing devices.
I have, well, I guess you could say a smartphone, but I have a phone laptop and a PS4.
Doesn't the PS4 have a option to use voice activation?
Yeah, it's not turned on though.
Okay.
I tried it once and it's not the best.
I got to say, yeah, because I was sitting there going PlayStation, open YouTube, then it would go wait a minute and just go, I don't know.
I would try over and over and you would think, you know, like some of the apps, like the hot words, they, they're automatic, like a, like bloodborne.
I was like PlayStation, open bloodborne. Sometimes it would work. Most of the time it didn't.
So I'm like, you know what? I'm not even going to bother with it. It's kind of pointless to sit there and go and yell at my own console when I could just navigate to it with the controller that's already in my hand.
Yeah, Microsoft's done a pretty good job with the Xbox one from what I can see. I own my Aussie friends, talks to his Xbox all the time and gets it to do stuff.
But PlayStation, I think is a little behind the buck on that one.
From the Linux community as I kind of miss the old Linux community, dad, we've kind of grown in been more inclusive.
And so you got a lot more people uprooted using things like Ubuntu and Mint.
Yes, dad, anytime you're using it.
Oh, yeah.
I'm trying to, when he talks to the Xbox as a go to the MS servers, I'm pretty sure all voice recognition systems that fire off commands like that are going to a server or some sort.
I know Alexa does Google does. I'm pretty sure you would have to unless it was all locally stored, which it isn't.
I mean, like the processing of the voice. I was going to say it'd be so hard to run that on what the console can do.
So yeah, it goes out to a server and then it gets processed using machine learning usually.
And it tries to best guess what you're trying to ask it to do.
And then it sends those commands back over the internet to your device to then trigger what you've asked if it's something that supports.
I'm remaining officially quiet right now.
Am I mispeaking Ken?
Nope.
Okay.
You accurately describe how a typical setup might work.
This is interesting.
So dad says the point being that we can't get the tech people to avoid the tracking. How can we ever expect the masses?
Well, I mean, your dad, I think there is, I like that we're just calling on dad now.
Dad is making a generalization because not all, I mean, you have to tech community, but what is the tech community?
I mean, maybe the community that he's following, but not necessarily the same community that I hang out with.
And I think realistically it's gotten really difficult to avoid being tracked on things.
I mean, I've got an Android phone.
And even with all the stuff I turn off, I still am connected on social media platforms because that's how I stay connected with my family.
I have to sacrifice some of my privacy to be able to use some of the conveniences of social media, unfortunately.
So basically, everything I was of the opinion myself, but everything was sad and depressed, depressing.
Hold on a second, I need to copy this.
What time are we in?
It's 20 after some hour.
So it's North Korea time coming off very shortly in 90 minutes.
So it'll be there new year, even though none of them will ever hear this show.
Right.
Possibly not.
I'll just slap it in here.
So there's this piece of legislation that's in effect now in the EU and coming into effect on the 28th, 26th, 28th of May, 2018.
It's called the general data protection regulation.
And that sounds quite innocuous.
However, it is the most awesome piece of text that I have ever read.
So it's even past is beyond me.
It requires everybody to automatically sign in for stuff.
It needs to be as easy to sign out of stuff as it is to sign in for stuff.
And all information somebody collects about you needs to be met accessible to you in a human or in a machine readable format.
And you can't charge for it.
And it has to be.
So for example, on Facebook, you would be allowed to export all your information, use a name password, but not only that.
Anything related to the business that's been going on.
So it will also show that you are connected to all these people and all their messages.
So when you do an export, you get all of that stuff.
The idea is to promote interoperability software between banks.
Or if you want to move from one TV provider to another that you can move all your stuff over one email provider.
They need to provide all your information that you have gathered.
And at any time you can opt out and from that moment on, it is the required to not process that information anymore.
That's kind of awesome.
And it gets better.
The data that they collect, they are only allowed to collect this.
And use it for what they have agreed.
And the fines are absolutely.
I've got a, I've got a thing over here.
They're not allowed to suddenly decide, OK, well, we've got all this information.
I'm going to reuse it again. They have to re ask your permission if they, if you want to change it.
And it's written into the law.
You.
Oh, yeah, if there's when there's breaches.
You have to notify them within so many days.
You have to have a data protection officer that that protection officer is.
To be reporting to the head of the company paid for by the company, but not responsible to the company has to act independently.
Sounds like a bit about trans union right there.
You should probably take a moment to welcome Perlist to the chat room.
Hello, everybody. It's Dave Morris.
Hi, yeah, I manifest as Perlist.
I don't know why I ever chose that name, but there you go.
I would love to learn Perl.
It's, it's a strange thing.
When I was working, there was a guy who was very keen on Perl and was an Emax, Devity and stuff.
And he wrote some stuff and then he left and I found out to look after it.
And then I really got caught by it.
I thought it was fantastic language.
And I still do, even though it's not very fashionable anymore, I still think it's really, really cool.
I attended a talk on Perl at a conference.
And yeah, it made, it made me sort of respect the language a lot because all the posts you see nowadays are just like, oh, Perl so ugly, Perl so unreadable is blah, blah, blah.
But yeah, like really hearing someone who liked it, talk about it, really made me, made me interested in it.
And I was going to sit down and learn it.
But then I got sort of sidelined by the whole Perl 5 versus Perl 6 thing.
And I just never got back to it.
No, it's, it's in an odd state at the moment.
I think Perl 5 is still plotting away doing stuff, but you're seeing bits of it, the modules that really make it what it is gradually falling off the support.
There's things I use, which are just, just on the edge of usability because the people that wrote them have sort of wanted off to do other things, you know.
And it's suffering a bit from that.
And also, as you say, the Perl 6 stuff that I guess sort of mess things up for Perl 5.
Haven't even looked at Perl 6 yet. It looks very scary.
And I can't figure out if it's like, because Perl 6 now, from what I can tell, sort of says, oh, it's not meant to replace Perl 5.
So now I'm even more confused. And I can't tell it.
Is it going to be a slow migration to Perl 6? Is it never going to have migrates? I don't know.
It's so incredibly different.
It's, it's, it's come from the same world as Perl 5.
It's been written by people who are Perl 5 devotees and they've, they've looked at Perl 5 over a long period of time and said, well, we could do this better or, you know, it really needs work in this sort of area.
And, and they've gone off and created this thing. A lot of them were Haskell users and devotees.
So this, there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of thinking from that side of computer science in there as well.
It's very, it looks amazing, but it's hell of a thing to get into. I've been to a few talks at Fosdem about it and it was, especially the regular expression stuff is just astonishing.
But wow, it's like looking at Haskell. It's, it's, it's like looking at alien language as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, and I'm not sure if, if I'm unique in this sense or in maybe even, maybe possibly even misguided, maybe this isn't a thing, but I feel like when I'm looking at a language and, and sort of analyzing whether I want to invest my time in learning it, I kind of want to, for lack of a better word, trust the language developers, you know, I kind of want to feel secure that it's going to be a language that will treat me well over the, you know, over the time that I use it.
And Python, I feel pretty secure with because it seems to go pretty steady and its changes are fairly, fairly slow and they vet them pretty well.
And, and I just, with Pearl, I just felt it was a little bit rocky, you know, like I didn't want to get involved with it if it was going to suddenly switch things around on me later.
So yeah, I feel hesitant to get into it.
Yeah, I can understand what, it doesn't look good, the whole Pearl world does seem to be a little bit strange, although if you go to, to the various Pearl conferences or things which have Pearl presence there, it still seems very, very solid.
There's loads and loads of people that I went to Fosden the year that I'm blanking when he's named the inventor of Pearl.
Yeah, Larry, yeah.
And the numbers of people that went to all of the Pearl track was massive.
You know, you really needed to get a seat and stay there for the entire weekend if you wanted to see stuff.
I didn't get to see much at all, actually, because of that, the cues outside.
But, you know, it showed there was a huge interest in, in, in Pearl.
He was talking about Pearl six, he was announcing Pearl six at that point.
So maybe that was part of it, but it's still incredibly popular.
Yeah, that's, that's good to, that's good to hear because, yeah, I guess maybe that's my concern is that I'm getting too bogged down in sort of the, the not marketing, but like sort of the user facing blurbs.
And if I were just to use the language, then I wouldn't actually care because it would be the thing that I'm using and it would be working for me.
And that's really all you need at the end of the day.
Yeah, yeah, it's, I think the whole Pearl six thing did do strange stuff to the, the community into the, the, the way that the world saw the community.
Because it looked like, well, it took 15 years or something to get from, well, we're making Pearl six to actually being delivered.
People are wondering what the hell is going on, you know, because they, they, they tore it down and then rebuilt it several times, I think.
So, you know, it doesn't, doesn't engender a lot of confidence really watching that sort of process going on.
But yeah, I still use it because I like it.
And because I'm probably too old to learn anything else.
I, I put a bit of fighting to please.
Thank you.
I won't tell you my age, but still got all my teeth.
Well, anyway, um, the right jar right over there.
That's right.
They're right over there in the sterile.
Um, I, I put a bit of Python into Vim editor the other days had a download of stuff and, uh, Vim went nuts.
I hadn't realized I'd installed a thing that that vets the Python and, and critiques it.
It just went completely mad over this stuff.
It said, no, there shouldn't be two spaces either side of that.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I don't want to get into that.
Yeah.
Maybe I just switch off the critique thing, I guess.
I just, I'm just going, no, I don't want to do this.
Oh, the, the Python thing, the, the style thing, the pet eight.
It's just, they go crazy with it.
And then if you do something wrong, they, they treat it.
I mean, they don't, it's not a fatal error, but it, it, you know, they, it makes such a big deal about it.
And you're just like, oh my gosh.
Just to shut you up, I will conform to the way that you want me to do this.
It's really annoying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in doing so, make sure to put it on.
And in doing so, make sure to call it completely readable to somebody else.
Something that Pearl doesn't always do, Dave.
Well, not pointing to you like, no, no, no, no, it's, it's easy to write the sort of Poe one liners, which, which, which, which it,
completely, you know, they, they, they completely pass you by the, the complexities of it is just too horrible.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that, that's where Pearl has got that, that criticism from, I think, that people have written incredibly bad code in that sort of way.
But when I was, when I was just about in the 80s or so, there was, there was a thing that happened every year, which was the obfuscated C competition.
Where people would put together the most obscure bit of C.
And there was, there was a prize for the, for how obfuscated it was.
So, you know, it just goes to prove that in any language, you can write incredibly tangled and obscure stuff.
It's, you can barely do easier in Pearl, but, but, you know, it's, it, it doesn't, it's not the language is the, is the writer.
Yeah, I've, I've seen a couple of those styles of competitions online, and I think they're pretty, pretty silly.
Um, DOD, D-Dummy was asking if the Python 3 switch, the 2 to 3 switch was like the Pearl 5 to 6.
And I cannot talk to that, DOD, D-Dummy, because I don't really know about the switch to Pearl 5, from Pearl 5 to 6.
I will say that the switch to from 2 to 3 and Python has, has actually been quite smooth.
It's, it's one of those things that they've, they've really kept really good forward and backward compatibility.
So, they're basically gradually, at least from what I can tell, they're gradually turning 2 into 3.
While you, even though you can still use 2, and there's a bunch of compatibility libraries, and yeah, it's, it's actually been really smooth.
I maintain Python 2 and 3 code in separate projects, and it, it really doesn't.
And even switching from 2 to 3, it's, unless you're just dealing with a bunch of code, it's not really that hard.
So, I, I don't think it's, I don't think it's like the Pearl 5 to 6, only because, from what I can tell, 5 and 6 and Pearl seemed to, it doesn't seem to be very well communicated as to what the intent is.
Like, is 5 going to turn into 6, or are they going to actually be separate languages?
Because Pearl 6 right now is claiming to be a separate language.
So, I'm going to argue that it's a different thing, the Python versus Pearl.
Yeah, there's 7,000 Southern interviews when we're into your language.
And they said it's a completely different, completely different thing.
Yeah, that's my understanding anywhere.
I think it's, it's going to run off in, in its own direction.
There are actually some backported stuff from 6 to 5 that are happening now.
So, they're modules that do some of the clever stuff that's popped up in Pearl 6 back into Pearl 5.
I mean, that's counterintuitive though, for them to say, oh, it's a separate language, because I mean, the thing that comes after Pearl 5 presumably would need to be numbered 6.
So, like, is Pearl 5 therefore going to die?
How can 6 be different than 5?
Like, you know, like, this sequence, I don't understand.
I know, it's, I think they were saying when I, the positive I was at, that they really regretted that they had called it Pearl 6.
It should never have been called that, because it's evolved into something which is not Pearl.
It should be called not Pearl or something.
There you go, that would work.
I mean, it would certainly confuse me less.
But like I say, maybe I'm just, I could be someone who's overthinking it, and it's just an excuse not to learn Pearl is that I can just say, well, I'm too confused between 5 and 6.
I don't know what I should learn, and then I never have to sit down and learn it.
Yeah, John Culp was asking me if I was up for doing a Pearl series on HBR at one point.
I think he, he was thinking of using Pearl himself, but he decided not to and went off to Python instead.
But I did toy with the idea, but it's a big, big subject, and I doubt whether many people would be that thrilled.
Yeah, I definitely intend to learn some Pearl and utilize it.
It's just, it's something that I've meant to do, but yeah, eventually I'll get around to it.
I keep meaning to learn Ruby, actually, because that looks, that's derivative of Pearl.
It has a lot of pearl ideas in it.
Oh, okay, interesting.
I've not really, I've not really got that far in it yet.
Yes, one of the things that is all the time, you know, I just, just a little, a little bit.
As a student, I was messing with APL, for example.
It's the weirdest, weirdest thing you've ever come across, but quite, quite fun.
But now I just don't see what I want to do that anymore.
It's, I'm just interested in.
Yeah, I feel like I feel the same way about Linux distros.
You know, like I keep thinking back of, back to when I was first getting into Linux,
and how exciting it was to switch distros all the time.
And now it's just like, I can't be bothered.
You know, I just slackwear, just forget everything else.
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
Yeah.
I started off with Red Hat back in the early days, and I just sort of gravitated to Debian
now, and I'm quite happy to stay there, I think.
Oh, so you've downgraded.
I tried to install some of my server.
Oh, do you know, I'm having trouble remembering stuff today.
It was, oh yeah, CentOS.
I tried to put CentOS on my server.
It really could not get on with that at all.
Could be because it had LVM on the disks already in CentOS, didn't like it.
But yeah, it just, I didn't have good experience with it.
That's weird.
LVM seems to be a default on practically everything these days, so you wouldn't think that that would interfere.
No.
But it could have been anything, I guess.
Maybe because I'd built the LVM under Debian.
And then tried to put CentOS on it.
And it said it just wouldn't recognize it.
Did it recognize it?
Yes, interesting.
Yeah.
And it's quite hard to pull it down again once you've built it.
I think you probably need to use the same setup that you built it under.
I don't really know.
But it's the disks some other ways and start again.
But yeah, just one of those things like that experience I was talking about with Python,
making me think, I don't want to touch this again.
Yeah, yeah.
Totally.
It's like having a bad meal in a restaurant and something.
You're never ever going to go there again.
Kind of his food or something.
It's that sort of illogical response, I guess.
Yeah, but you know what?
It's like, there's this, there's that window, right?
Of, okay, I'll try this thing.
And if it, if it doesn't work for that 30 minutes, then that was the window.
And it just, you know, it passed you, it got passed by.
And now you can't be bothered again.
That's how it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I guess it is, is it anything?
Yeah, but I've seen, and this journey to Linux things that we've had with people
where they're specifically migrating from Windows to Linux.
Quite often they, people try Linux for a while, then, oh, this is terrible.
And I'm switching back to Windows.
And then eventually, when you come back, the second time your mind is more open to the possibilities of it.
Yeah, well, I guess, okay, there's not just one window.
I don't know if I need to go to a restaurant.
I guess, you know, but there's, there's those openings and, and, and those windows of opportunity
and they only open up so often.
Yeah, I think you'd probably have to be in the right mental state as well.
Absolutely.
And have the right drive to, to, to do the thing.
If you, if there's a problem, you want to solve and, and it's best solved in language X or something,
then it's, it's fairly obvious, which way to go.
Yeah, yeah.
Or, you know, you, you look on Stack Overflow and whatever snippet, whatever code snippet comes up, you, you, you learn that language.
I find that Pearl has spoiled me for a lot of stuff.
For example, a year or so back, I was looking at parsing RSS using Ruby.
And I, there's a, there's a module, what would you call it, a gem in Ruby that, that was, everybody was recommending as, as using.
And, and it, it actually samples the RSS.
And then it goes down a different branch, depending on whether it's got iTunes type, you know, the declarations for iTunes or the various sources of different variants of RSS.
It would go, it would choose one and go down that route.
So it meant that if you had some of the features of iTunes, but it chose the other one, you couldn't get access to them.
Why did you design it? I actually wrote a real strange.
And said, why did you design it that way? And his attitude was, well, it's the way it is, you know, like only of it.
So, whereas in Pearl, I've usually found that people make very sensible choices in this sort of stuff.
Just personal experience, of course, but, you know, I like the sort of choices that Pearl writers tend to, to use and not finding them in Python.
Not so much, I wouldn't criticize Python so much, but Ruby, certainly that experience was, was a bad one.
Looking at somebody writing stuff in beautiful soup in Python recently, that looks really, really nice, actually. I must get into that one for certain.
Yeah, beautiful soup. I've used an old job and I, yeah, I quite liked it. It was quite sensible.
Yeah, it seems to have a lot of really useful features.
What's that? What did you say, Ken?
You did a show on the beautiful soup at one point.
Oh, okay. You recommended it as a one stage.
Funny. I don't remember that, but that was probably, I bet you anything I was probably working on something in beautiful soup at the time at that job that I'm referring to now.
I remember John Culkin mentioning it at some point, but maybe it wasn't a show.
I mean, beautiful soup for me. Yeah, I mean, if I need to parse XML, I don't really have to parse HTML usually, so it's usually XML.
That would be the go-to thing, but a lot of the dockbook tool chain actually involves Pearl.
So that's kind of one of the impetus that I keep seeing it. And I'm like, I need to learn Pearl so I can start sort of really interfacing more with dockbook.
That's interesting. Yeah, there's still quite a lot of Pearl inside things that...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is worth knowing.
Well, if you ever need any help or advice, you know, I say come on.
Oh, yeah, careful. I don't take you up on that sometimes. Not tomorrow, but you never know.
I'd be happy to.
Yeah, I've been just been writing quite a lot of stuff to parse.
HBR shows the HTML or HBR stuff to put it up onto the internet archive.
And in doing so, you need to do the stuff where you loaded in, then scan for certain things.
So I was actually looking for links so that I could work out whether there were files on the HBR server.
I also needed to shift over to the internet archive.
And doing it in Pearl, there's some quite nice tools for doing it, but having looked at beautiful super.
They do seem to come up with a nice design for how you would do that.
Let's toy with that at some point and have a go at it.
I could comment.
You're free to do so.
With regards to XML, the only tool that is capable of dealing with large XML files is XML Starlett.
And regardless of whether it's Pearl or Python, I would advise dropping to XML,
dropping to the calling OS and running XML Starlett and convert what you need into a, to the missing text file.
Interesting.
I've never heard of this before.
Okay.
XML Starlett's version.
Yeah.
XML Starlett, yes.
It's a command line parser.
I mean, it is by far the fastest tool to parse XML.
Benchmarked all, all of Pearl's ones and all of Python's ones.
And at the end of the day, nothing compares to XML Starlett.
I'm definitely going to check that out.
I can't believe I've never heard of this.
I mean, like not, not because I've heard it so much.
I've just surprised that it has never come up before.
But yeah, I'm looking at it source for each page now.
Definitely going to check it out.
Very few people have the use case of having to parse 12 gigabyte XML files.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, okay.
Very, very fast.
It's a specific use case.
But then once you start using it, you use it for everything.
I can know, I can pack out a, a, a, or SS reader in about three seconds using XML Starlett.
It's written in C, you know, imagine it's, so it'll be, it'll be written in a, it, it, it will be written in a compiled language.
So it's going to beat your, your interpreted languages, most likely.
Yeah.
But that's no excuse, Dave, because there's a lot of the modules and both Python and Perl are also written in C.
So you would expect those libraries to be exceeding you fast.
I used to process all of the student data at the university I worked at, which was handed to me in XML using Perl.
But I used XML twig, which was the thing that you set triggers so that when you hit a boundary point, you know,
then you, so the boundary was a new student.
So when you hit one of those, it then parsed the, the blob that it just got, the object that it just got and then passed it on.
So if you can do that, then I'm sure there are equivalents in other languages.
So that saves have a little thing.
Yeah, but you still need to parse through and then you need to do each of those in turn and that still turns out to be slower.
Okay.
I have a lot of stuff with XML twig.
I know.
It was also extremely, there's also extremely, I can pull up some of the sample code here.
I found it just didn't did my head in because sometimes you have elements.
Your expath expressions needed to be very precise and you ended up that it would trigger on one expath expression.
But if somebody had post the elements and additional element in there that was max occurs equals zero, you know, there were just it was an optional element.
And then that would bypass XML trig.
So then you have to recall that.
So any time any modifications occurred to the to the triggers to the structure of the XML on this this file, of course, changes all the time.
Then it wouldn't pick it up.
Whereas XML starlet is just your brute force approach.
You write your expath expression.
You find the thing that you're looking for and you dump it out.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
And then pull it in as a CBS file or whatever.
Well, sometimes it meant.
So if you have recursive elements where you've got within an element, you've got, you know, options that can occur within that element, you sometimes need to go in and gather all those and run that once.
And then make make your own relational database from the data structures that you have.
So you build a table for the occurrences of the recurring thing inside in our in our instance, it would be the series.
So you would say, say we did allow multiple series within a show.
Then you would need to first look for all the series, pull those out, put those into a series while and then go back and get the shows and then make a link to them.
But that's easy, easy, lemon, squeezy, and either pearl or python, but trying to get a parser to do that is just a pain.
So so much of a pain that, you know, forget about it.
I'll pull everything out, make my own database representation of what's in the XML of a minute and then work from there.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm afraid I sort of quiet thought of dealing with XML at that level.
It's a, yeah, it's a fairly unpleasant thing to have to work with.
Yeah, when, when expath starts to get mentioned, you just know that you're in for a good time.
The expath is, for you and people expath is phenomenal, easy concept to do.
You know, you just, it's, yeah, and I think it's not relevant.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just those exceptions that you're talking about that throws people off.
Yeah, I think the time opens is, sorry, you go.
No, go ahead.
I think it's very similar to what you're saying about the documentation on, um, on, uh, segment VPNs.
They either are typically too simple or they're far too complicated.
There's nothing in between.
And with expath, I've found myself that, you know, forget about parents and sisters and siblings and first and last.
You're never going to use them.
First and last, maybe things like sums, doing the complex stuff that expath can do.
It's, there's no cost benefit analysis for that.
Don't put out to a text file and give it to Python or give it to Pearl.
And you've got either a dictionary or a hash.
And then you can plow through it there.
Yeah, it becomes then a manageable thing.
You're only processing the information that you need.
So, um, I think it's trying to be too smart for what it's doing.
So just get the information that you need.
Get it out as quickly as possible.
Treat it like a database.
So I use, I get these XML files.
Now I treat them.
I use XML Starless to parse out the information.
And I treat that as a query.
So that's how I, that's how I can sleep at night, guys.
Yeah, so I can hear the pain in your voice.
I can say, yeah, appreciate what you're saying.
Well, you know, you, you, you learn all this stuff about expath.
And then you go, oh God, I'm not using any of it.
And I know I could solve it with an XSLT translation from one thing to the other.
That would be the correct way to do it.
But on the other hand, your life, just because you're, you know, stick into the rules.
There's no guarantee that somebody's not going to send you a file.
That's not exactly to spec.
And at the end of the day, you have an option.
Are you going to be thickheaded and not have your product sold?
You're going to be annoyed about somebody missing an element.
Are you just simply not going to display that image on the screen and, you know, carry on with your life?
So, yeah, if I was back in the days when I was doing life support ventilators, of course, I would stop it.
But, you know, when you're talking about displaying information on a TV screen, doesn't really matter.
And that's all I have to say about that.
But I really ruined the conversation there.
I'm sorry.
Just drop some XML in it and you've done it.
Oh god, don't get me started.
The strange thing is though about XML is that as much as I complain about it, it's really, I keep going back to it because it really is really good at what it does.
It's just, it's just such a thing all the time, whether you're dealing with it or you're parsing it or you're trying to translate it to something else.
It's just, I don't know, it's a weird thing.
I love it, but it's also very complex.
It's a love-haired relationship.
I'm going to say I'd much prefer JSON because it's so much sainter for data transfer, it's so much sainter because there are only a few things that you can do and that's it.
It's done.
Right, yeah.
But at the same time, it's, I mean, it can get pretty ugly to look at when it gets complex as well.
Yeah, but you don't have to look at it.
Run it through a parser.
Right, yeah, sure.
You're trying to pretty.
JQ, have you used that command line too?
JQ?
No, no, never.
Don't know that one, actually.
People, people.
JQ and XML Starlet.
Definitely.
JQ is a command line parser for parsing JSON.
It's awesome.
You can like bash pipe stuff into it, grab stuff out of it as well.
And it does a beautiful job of just tidying it up and putting everything into nice colors and all the keys or one color and the things or another color.
It's fantastic.
And I like the fact that JSON either works or doesn't work.
It's no, there's no in between.
It's valid or doesn't.
Nothing parses if it doesn't work.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know.
I feel like in Python for a while, I was really liking JSON for some things.
But once I really started using beautiful soup, I just went, I fell back to XML because that's what I do.
I keep going back to XML.
Yeah, XML is fine when it's a defined standard that kind of works.
And it's not insane.
And I'm unfortunate in that I'm dealing with two specific in the same formats for my daily life.
Does anyone have that?
Oh, sorry.
If you look at RSS, that's not even bad.
That makes sense.
But it's turned down to whoever.
You just get somebody the freedom to do anything and then they will develop whatever it is based on their whatever they consider to be logical.
Does anyone have permissions to drag Sebastian into this channel?
He currently using the lounge and he's stuck there.
How is that not possible?
I'll drag him in.
Yeah, I don't know.
I tried to drag him, but I don't think I have permissions for that.
There he is.
I mean, welcome.
So now why is that there is no reason why?
Yeah, that seems odd.
I see groups.
Everybody can all all groups.
Testing.
Can anybody?
Can I be heard?
Yeah, we can hear you are being heard right now.
Okay, good.
At least the phone works.
Did somebody put me in here?
Yeah.
Yeah, I did.
But we've had...
Well, CM Hobbs is stuck out.
Well, hold on one second.
Why are people stuck out in the lounge, people?
I've logged in on two separate computers and I have not had this problem.
So I'm not sure what's going on.
I don't know, but I'll have to use my phone this time.
It looks like because I've got caught out a little bit with my headsets.
Clat 2, do you mind if I make you admin?
I do not mind.
Is there anyone else going to be on for a while?
Because I need to go do finally stuff shortly.
I will be back in a minute.
I'll be back soon.
My phone's a test, so this would actually work first.
Cool.
I'm actually leaving as well, Ken.
It's like five in the morning.
I should probably get some sleep.
But I'm going to keep recording.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I feel like I didn't really organize that very well.
So I'm not sure when or if it will happen.
Go get some sleep.
I may try to just set up something separate for some other time.
I thought it might be cool for the new year thing,
but I think the atmosphere here is a bit different.
So maybe I'll just do like a thing on the mailing list
and get a bunch of people on for an impromptu game
or something some other time.
Yeah, all the thing in the room is here for that sort of purpose.
Yep.
Cool.
Everyone have a great new year's show.
I'm going to go sleep some.
Hey, backlight dude.
Nice I do, it's great talking to you.
Yep, see you.
I'm going to try and do some debugging here on the website.
Have you posted the community news yet, Ken?
No, I am Dave.
This is my life, guys.
Dave hounded me for the news stuff.
Why?
Why?
No, it's just that I'm going to upload stuff to the archive.org
and I need that before I can do the other.
Well, I could do the other.
Yes, that needs to be fast.
It needs to be ready for midnight.
Oh, crikey.
UTC.
Give me a sec.
Sorry.
Sorry about that.
All right.
I'll be thinking about uploading things.
How we doing on Twitter?
I'll be asking about 50 minutes.
Can somebody ping me if they can't get into the room?
Because I need to pause the show stat.
Somebody spoke and we have a collision.
I said I'll be back in about 15 minutes.
Okay.
I believe I talked over a bunch of people as well.
Sorry.
No problem.
How we doing for shows, did you say?
That's it.
Yeah, that's what I was asking.
I could probably get a couple of shows recorded
if we're running thin.
It's been a few months.
We're not too thin.
But we need them.
Remember, we need them constantly.
Because do five a week.
So any contribution will be much appreciated.
I may just try to record a couple of them and set them for dates
far in the future.
That way they could be percolated up if necessary or something.
Yeah, cool.
That would be great.
I'm glad I finally got into the server.
I don't know if you guys were watching IRC,
but I don't have my glasses on.
And this type of thing.
And I feel pretty silly about the whole ordeal.
But finally here.
No, I didn't.
I've not been following the IRC.
I was expecting is Clackay there in IRC as well.
He was asking earlier on the news social
where the chat was happening.
I see his name here, but he hasn't spoken as far as I know.
OK, OK.
I was expecting him on the mumble.
He's a busy guy.
I can do with him here for a week chat as well, I think.
It was a good news social still quite active.
I actually bailed several months ago.
Yes, I noticed you were not around very much.
Yes, it is.
I'm not there a huge lot these days.
I was never very active, but I tend not to go on that often.
Just occasionally I get messages saying,
there's an HBR thing.
Could you help me?
And I go and answer that because I get mail from things
when I get notification.
So but other than that, but it's yes,
it's a lot more busy since Master Don, I think.
Yeah, that's primarily why I left.
I couldn't keep up with my timeline.
For some reason, the people I was following,
I don't know if they were repeating notices
from other people more often than they were speaking,
but my timeline just became a mess of people I didn't know
talking about things I didn't understand.
So I felt sort of silly being unable to tame my timeline.
So I just went ahead and quit.
Yeah, I do know the feeling.
I've also got a lot,
it's the retreats or whatever the equivalent is,
that it was flooding my timeline as well.
And yeah, so I tend not to be there that much these days.
Yeah, I certainly didn't want to block a bunch of people
because the people that were being repeated
had good information or fun things to read,
but typically it was just a flood of stuff
and it would drown out all the slower posters
that I preferred following.
So now I just typically communicate
with people on Java, it seems like.
Yeah, it's strange, isn't it?
I noticed that as well.
I joined a new social couple of years ago.
I met some people that paused them
who were quite into it,
and they suggested,
oh, why don't you join?
And I did.
And there was quite a lot of chat
between people on HPR and people that had met
at old camp and paused them and this sort of stuff.
It's fairly small.
You know, as it depends on your following stuff,
but since then it seems to have blown up
to more than my small brain can hang on.
Oh, sorry for the pause there.
One of my radios was going off.
Oh, there it goes again.
Anyway.
Yeah, go ahead.
I was about to disappear there,
while I still got on the background.
But yeah, I paused there more camp.
Yeah, anybody knows.
Hi Sebastian.
Hi Sebastian.
Do you remember me?
Do you remember me?
Do you remember me?
I was sat beside my house.
One, the laptop, but old camp.
Oh, it was you.
Oh, yes.
The guy I jokingly said,
if you win the laptop,
I'll give it to me and then you won it.
I never did, sorry.
I never did, sorry.
When they read your, read your words.
I'll come back and talk to you in a bit.
Yeah, can you get a set of headphones as well, please,
because you're looping back into the feed.
I might be able to use a phone now,
because I'd test that problems.
Yeah, it gets earbuds or something.
Or am used when you're not talking.
That's the problem.
Well, I'm going to have to go.
I've got a ton of things I need to do here,
but nice to speak to a few people.
Dave, I've just edited the show.
I'm uploading it now to Thingy,
and I'll transcode it,
and I'll send you an email when it's done.
Right.
That's great.
Probably.
No, no, no.
There's still plenty of time to do it,
but it does need to be done,
because we're now depending on it being there for Monday only.
Yes, indeed.
Okay.
Catch you later.
Right.
Take care.
So you'll also tune in into some radio stuff, Chris?
Oh, I've always got a radio or two going.
That was a repeater that was announcing its ID.
And it's exciting for me,
because nobody's maintaining this repeater anymore,
and the time has been inaccurate for quite some time.
So when we get back to daylight saving time,
the time will go back to being accurate,
so I'm just waiting for that day,
when I hear it announced the correct time.
Yeah.
How do you go about getting the,
you know, if nobody's maintaining it,
who's keeping it in the air?
Well, I don't know.
I think it's running itself.
It's a repeater that I used to check into regularly
back in about 2003,
when our local Department of Emergency Management,
which is a civilian organization,
was a bunch of volunteers who help out in storms and stuff.
We used the repeater greatly,
and it still retains that call sign,
and that call sign is still valid for the FCC,
but I think nobody's touching it,
it's kind of like an old Unix box,
it just keeps going and doesn't die.
Probably because nobody's really using it very much.
Yeah, I think it's on a water tower, actually,
in an environment-proof box up there.
And I think it's still on repeater book, perhaps.
I've had access to it for many years,
and the only reason I was able to program it
into a new radio is I just remembered the frequencies
and the PL tones,
but I'm sure new people would probably have trouble finding it
unless they look it up through repeater book.
Okay.
I'm doing a few things here at the same time,
so forgive me for that.
Hey, no worries.
I'm trying to find tomorrow's show.
No, I still didn't do any more with my license.
Well, I'm actually, I want to do a beginner's one,
but I'm debating whether to do it here in the Netherlands
or do it in England or even do it in Ireland,
and my three options, whichever is the easiest one.
I don't know the differences between the licensing
and those countries.
You know, if you haven't played with WebSDR.org yet,
you may want to do that.
I'm sure you've been plenty of receiving,
but yeah.
Well, actually, by the way, people,
if you think we're all jumping in over each other,
it's a feature of the fact this is a global podcast,
and there's a delay,
and we don't hear each other the same way that you do.
So, there you go.
Go on ahead.
Yeah, I was just going to say that,
if you are looking to get rights to turn smad,
if you just focus on HF,
I think that'll get the furthest response available.
If you do VHF and UHF,
you're going to be dependent on the radio horizon.
So whatever license will get you some limited HF privileges
would probably be the best place to start.
Even if that's not the aspect of the hobby you're most interested in,
it will get you the most people to talk to.
Yeah, I still need to,
you know, I need to get some sort of a license to operate,
and it kind of makes sense to get the Dutch one
because, hey, the Netherlands after all.
Because if you get the full license in the UK or Ireland,
you can transfer within the,
you can transfer your license over without having to do the exam.
I should have actually explained that.
You may want to look into what call signs are available then,
because if there's a call sign prefix you prefer from another country,
that might be the rat to go.
Yeah, but if you're living over here,
then they would expect you to register here locally.
So if you're a resident here, I don't know, I'll see.
I think, oh no, what's wrong now?
That's a fair point.
It seems logical to get it locally,
but especially if you can transfer it.
I know some people though that just often fly to different countries
for the sole purpose of getting a license in that country,
so they have enough at their calls.
So why not do all three?
No.
I find it hard enough to find the time to do one in the first place.
Yeah, I know the feelings.
I edit the database directly.
I'm not a happy person at the moment.
You haven't trouble with the upload?
Well, what happens is we post the show,
and then we need to go back and add the duration to it.
So the text to speech at the beginning has the right information.
Are you doing the new year show?
Uploading that?
I don't remember other multiple interviews from yesterday.
So we recorded the one that was on Monday,
and then presumably on Tuesdays,
doing the post in the new year show.
Although I'm the only one with a recording from this morning,
so I don't know if it's somebody who posted.
I think I only made one of the community news shows this year.
Maybe two.
I don't recall.
You listen to them or attend to this?
I attended it.
I listened to just about every HPR episode.
The only time I don't listen is if the audio...
I have really poor headphones for when I'm listening to podcasts,
and if the audio is very tinny,
I'll typically not listen to it unless the subject is just totally enthralling.
Yeah, very good.
And like I said earlier, I should probably record a few episodes.
It's been several months for me,
and Dave said we weren't running thin,
but it's good to have some in the backlog,
so I'll see what I can get recorded.
It always makes me feel better when I look at three or four weeks out,
but there's at least a show or two in there.
You know, five, six weeks out if there's at least one show in there.
That cheers me up, Nolan.
Is it possible to record some,
and just not schedule them and set them aside for reserve,
or is that a bad idea?
Should they just be scheduled?
Yeah, a little bit.
I'd prefer if you didn't.
We have enough for that.
So just go out to what JWP does.
He schedules 12 shows a year,
plus one in every moment.
So yeah, seems like a good idea.
That's probably smart.
I don't know if I've got 12 topics,
but I'll come up with something.
A few things I'm working on.
I'm overhauling my network.
We're overhauling some of the manner network.
And then one thing I thought about,
I do part of my work is penetration testing,
and I thought it would be fun to record an episode
while I was in the middle of, of course,
not reveal any information,
but record an episode while I was on site,
or something like that, sneaking around.
Very, very.
That would definitely fulfill our hacker aspect
of our mirror of our thing.
But no, it's penetration testing.
Certainly.
I just wonder how much bladdering into a headset
would blow my cover.
But you know, I could easily make it part of the stick,
so we'll see what happens.
Exactly.
Oh, that would be interesting.
Well, it's just an interesting
thing to hear or show about how you got into that.
And what life is actually like,
because I imagine people have very different views
on penetration testing and how cool it is,
and stuff like that.
Yeah, I get asked a lot like,
oh, that sounds so fun.
Isn't it cool or whatever?
And you know, there's probably 10, 15 minutes
out of a four-week audit that's fun.
The rest of it is, you know,
because we do, yeah, boring,
and, or adrenaline,
we do physical auditing as well,
like breaking an inner end crap.
And there's nothing fun about that.
Yeah, it's pretty.
Yeah.
No, it's, you have to be in shape
and it's terrifying sometimes.
Because I live in an area where people carry firearms regularly.
So you never know if you're going to get a gun pointed at you.
You need to do shows about this seriously.
Absolutely need to do shows about this.
Well, I only do about four audits a year these days
because I'm getting too old to jump fences.
But, yeah, I'll put something together.
I could do like a little QA or, you know,
how to get into it,
how to, or what it's like and so on.
That would be easily done.
It also gives you a different perspective on things.
It's kind of funny.
I remember one instance in particular,
standing outside of a building waiting on someone to move
so I could get access to a network port.
And I stood outside waiting on that person
for about an hour or two.
And I had a clear view of them,
but they couldn't see me.
And now in my living room with my giant windows,
we call it the fishbowl.
At night, sometimes I look outside and wonder
who's looking at it.
Yeah.
Now, I've never, here in the Netherlands,
the Calvinistic ideal,
everybody should be able to look into your windows
and thank you very much.
Black outlines for me.
Yeah, I'm much the same.
I prefer my privacy.
But you have nothing to hide.
Yeah.
Oh, I've got plenty to hide.
Plenty.
Mostly my cringe-worthy moments
of roaming around the house
and singing to my cats and son and whatnot.
But yeah.
That was a great episode.
I really enjoyed that.
The Satellite something more.
Oh, yeah.
In fact, I've made a few contacts.
I'm trying to get one of the,
I guess, achievement awards
or whatever you want to call them.
They call them awards.
But Amset provides little pieces of paper
that confirms that you've made so many contacts.
But my problem is,
the Satellites keep flying over
in such a manner that they hit the same grid squares.
So I can't get unique contacts.
I've made enough to fulfill the award
but they're not in the right places.
But perhaps we'll do another one of those satellite episodes
that I may be able to actually
get a contact on a recording.
That would be really cool.
I think I can run my radio
into my recorder,
but I don't know if I can get it
to record my voice at the same time.
I don't have to experiment a bit.
I'm just looking at the control panel from Mumble
and I cannot see any reason why
there would be a problem here.
With people connecting?
Yeah.
Hold on one second.
It's confirmed that we're out.
Well, my problem is I didn't have my glasses on
and I misread the URL.
I ended up typing CHI instead of CH1
because I couldn't read it.
Then we got 250 slots.
There's nothing strange.
People should be going to the lounge.
I want to check on Mumble itself.
And I'm still normalizing the audio over there
for any viewership.
Edit the channel.
I get like a public radio group.
Groups all add.
I don't know what I just did,
but I just add the all to something.
I'll count you that.
Yeah.
You can click it.
Access control list.
All.
And I write access transverse.
Enter.
All can enter. All can speak.
All can transverse.
All can whisper.
And all can text.
And there's another all here.
Enter.
Yep. Don't get it.
Okay.
Has it passed the new year over there in the Netherlands yet?
It's a bit of a dumb question.
But I don't know my geography well.
No, we can.
I mean, some people can.
But for that very reason,
we have a link on the website,
which will point you to timedate.com.
And there you can follow it down.
Currently, the next people to go
is much of Indonesia, Thailand,
and seven more 39 minutes to go.
And we have the show notes page as well.
If you go to the main link,
you can keep notes here.
Yeah, the etherpad.
I should be on for a good part of the day,
checking in and out here and there.
I do have a little bit of work to get done,
but otherwise it shouldn't be a problem.
And I'll try to make it for midnight, my time.
That'll depend on what state my wife and I are in.
So.
Very good.
I'm going to go spend some time with the family
from around.
Now short, Lena,
and say get the show posted.
Fantastic.
Okay,
she was being converted.
There were quite a lot of people on seems to be less now.
I'll deal with that one tomorrow.
Do you know if anybody's done any shows
on cryptocurrency recently?
Oh, way back in the day, I think,
when Bitcoin started just.
Yeah, I don't remember any in recent memory,
but with the explosion over the last few months,
I'm surprised nobody's flapped their gums about it.
Yeah, I think everybody here is just waiting for the massive crash.
That is inevitably going out.
Yeah, likewise.
I am interested in Ethereum,
not as a currency,
but as the platform I like to try and tinker with solidity
and build things on their network.
But I'm of the same mind that it's eventually going to collapse.
I do see a future for like for digital as a replacement
for digital signatures and that sort of thing.
So there is a as a community.
For verifying the maintaining honesty integrity
and integrity within a community of,
I don't know.
People who exchange documents,
whether it's a, you know,
for your tax authorities that you have your auditor sign documents
that you've sent to that this day,
and then the tax authority will verify that, you know,
that sort of thing that I see a future.
And most certainly I could see that as well.
I think that people will figure things out to do with it
along those lines and it'll settle down at some point.
Yeah, but you can,
you can see that there's going to be a pink now again,
then there's going to be a massive crash,
then there'll be about five to six years,
and more mature bits of the technology will be used.
A lot of people making a whole bunch of money on the way,
though, that's for sure.
I had a couple of friends retire on it.
I was never smart enough to, well,
brave enough to put in a bunch of money,
so I just let it all.
That would have been a great time to collapse.
So looking at this, I think I can do about four shows here.
I can cover,
don't tell you what that I can do four shows.
No, you own me shows.
If you say it, it's like beta juice.
Oh, no, no, no.
I certainly plan to do is actually
toss them into my agenda here.
I could do one on the info-sex stuff,
the pen testing.
I could do another one on
low-power radio stuff.
And then I could do one on the
the manner network updates,
especially things like pi-hole,
and how we do our DNS,
because I remember you asked about a DNS primer,
so maybe I could do a DNS primer as well.
Oh, yeah.
And then I could do one on some of the technology I take
with me when I'm hiking,
so that if I end up
injured, heaven forbid,
or something like that,
I can get myself out of the woods.
So that's four or five.
I'll try and come up with a total of 12.
But I'm running thin on ideas.
Can you tell I got the employee voucher thing?
I got one of these fire starter sticks,
have you ever seen them?
It was like a piece of metal,
and then there's some other piece of metal
like a can opener,
and you're supposed to be able to do that.
Can I what now?
You broke up on me.
I don't know if that was my network connection or what.
There's a...
I got this fire starter stick thing.
Did you ever see one of those?
Like a metal piece of metal,
and there's another piece of metal like a can opener,
you know,
a thing with a little map measurement thing.
Sorry, terrible, terrible description.
But I have no idea.
You can't with no instructions,
and yeah, I have no idea how to start a fire using this stick.
It's called a knife or fire stick.
Is it like one of those magnesium rods, perhaps?
Like a ferro rod, rather?
Yeah, it could be.
It's black.
Yeah, it needs a ferro rod.
It's not too difficult to start a fire with one of those.
But yeah, there's lots of fire starting techniques,
and that's probably the most popular these days
if you're not using a lighter.
So what's it called the ferro rod?
Ferro rod, F-E-R-R-O-R-O-D.
Honestly, the easiest way to do it
is you scrape some of the magnesium off
into a little tiny pile
onto whatever you're going to start a fire on,
or a little bit of a kindling.
Usually something easy to catch fire,
like, I mean, you could use cotton balls
as a good starter to scrape some on there,
and then with whatever steel you're using,
make sure it has a good edge on it,
and don't hit it to strike it,
but rather quickly scrape it along one side,
and it'll spark.
And the little pile there will catch two
and cause a much larger spark,
and it'll cause whatever kindling
you have it onto the catch fire.
Yeah, I get that, but when I hit this thing,
nothing happens.
Yeah, it is. That's how it is.
Yeah, it's a ferro rod.
Well, it's more of a scrape than it is a hit.
Yeah.
Even scraping, hitting, rubbing,
blank, didn't know that.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
You've got to remove some of the material off of it first
as well before it'll start going.
And you also have to make sure that the edge
that you're scraping it with is a sharp edge.
And I don't mean the sharp blade of your knife,
but it needs to be like a 90-degree angle.
It's got to have enough dig to it.
Okay, cool.
I know what to look for.
That's the main thing.
It's happy new you're done, dummy.
And then zoomed in, apparently.
Bushcraft fire steel with handle.
Yeah, this bushcraft title has gotten out of control,
in my opinion.
There's such a buzzword.
However, perhaps it's good to have a name to call things by.
Yeah.
Have you seen primers of technology
at all the YouTube channel?
Oh, it's one of my favorites.
Yes.
I love watching.
It's great.
I get the feeling like he's gone.
Every person with older camping kid and stuff.
And you just look at this guy.
You go, okay.
Well, part of the problem is we miss the part
where it takes him hours to do all of that.
Yeah, but he does show it.
He does edit it beautifully where you're seeing,
oh, it's taking five minutes to make that pot.
And then he cuts to 15.
And my mind just goes, oh, my God, is this guy no life?
Hey, I mean, some people do weird stuff on the weekend.
He's just added to it.
I'm sure.
I'm relatively certain he's just a normal person
with a normal job and so forth.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Says they who are on 24 hour.
24 hour podcast.
Marvel.
Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm currently shirking work responsibilities to be here.
It's more fun to hang out on Mumble
than it is to write code for contract.
Indeed it is.
You're working today.
Are you working today?
Yeah, unfortunately toward the end of the year.
So I have a full-time job.
I work from our bites as a programmer
and I have a business on the side where I do programming,
pen testing and network stuff.
And I had a crazy rush for the end of the year for
malware bites and I got most of that done.
I'll finish it up on Tuesday.
But I have Monday and Tuesday off from our bites.
So I'm spending the weekend and those two days wrapping up
some client code and also some lodge work.
I've been elected secretary again and I've been handed a mess.
So yeah, lots of work.
Good luck with that.
Hey, thanks.
Actually, the secretary's stuff goes really easy
because it's a paper instead of digital.
So I just have to manage a whole bunch of piles of paper.
So the shield's transcoated.
I just need to talk to Dave now.
And then done.
He will be happy.
Or WA.
Death minor.
And then also here.
Hi, Kevin.
Wishers problems.
Next.
Hard at the A back.
Welcome back.
Hi, welcome back.
I had to get some sleep.
What tons of there now?
1132 eastern time.
USA.
Yeah, figured.
Okay, I need to finish all some stuff and go do family stuff.
Now show me.
I'll be hanging out for a bit before I pick up for
a while and I'll come back in after that.
Okay, it's silence.
I'll take out the rest.
I just stopped and restarted the stream there.
Recording on my side at 1636 UTC.
1636 UTC.
Are you the only one recording right now?
There are a few now.
Yes.
And I'm also recording the stream itself.
Okay.
What?
No harm to press that magic button.
Right.
I'm on my phone at the moment, but I could.
I don't know.
There's one, two, three, four, four different, five different recordings going.
So we're okay.
Okay.
If you need another one, I'll hop on the computer instead of the phone and record.
Yeah, it's okay.
Well, gentlemen, nice.
My back is selling me that I need to attend to it.
So I hope to you back later.
Talk to you later.
Yep, take care.
Happy New Year, everyone.
Whenever it comes to you.
And welcome back, Mr. Weirley.
Thank you.
Scanning books is more boring than our.
It's a fact.
Did you say scanning books?
Yep.
You're just building a digital library or what?
No, I did a show on this about scanning books for my son.
I don't want him lugging in the stuff each and every day.
So you can leave his books in school.
And then you have the digital copy here to go through with him if he needs it.
Oh, right.
I recall that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you have done the workbook.
I've done the actual study books and now I'm doing the workbooks.
So it's boring.
It sounds very exciting indeed.
The thing about it is it needs just enough attention that it's not.
You can't do it.
It's not like ironing that you can just let one part of your brain do it.
You need to actively be active enough.
And it's just not active enough that keeps you interested.
How long per page does it typically take?
It only takes a few seconds, but then you have to change it.
So in this case, I started at 1456 CET.
And I went straight through basically without stopping to 1644.
So it took 14, 15...
So now are two hours to do a book without a break.
Get one of those scanners with the feed hopper and then share the spine off of the book.
It wouldn't be too happy with us.
The thought had crossed my mind today.
Well, you're a good man doing that for him.
I have to check each of them to make sure they're in order and then I can do the rest.
I'm at the page 41.
42.
42.
44.
Oh, Mr.
Yeah, 45.
This page 45.
And it's amazing.
It's an amazingly complex problem turning over pages.
There's a lot of tools that a lot of people have had projects trying to solve that problem.
It seems simple on the surface, but I imagine it's a little unwieldy.
Yeah, it's so much so that the archive.org have settled on like a V-shape to Canon cameras pointing each direction on a V-shape thing of glass.
And they have that you put the book in at 45 degrees.
And the last you pull down like, you know, one of those industrial dishwashers.
The last fits in between the two.
And then it takes two Canon two photos with two professional camera Canon.
That's a lot of cameras.
And then somebody lifts it up and changes it.
So they found they just they found it just easier to ask volunteers to help.
Yeah, I think at this point is probably a chiefly human task.
And maybe that will answer a question from earlier.
What will we do when all the robot jobs have been automated?
We'll be scanning this.
With scan books.
Okay, so that one 58.
59.
56.
62.
No.
Cool.
That one's done.
Excellent.
Oh goodness, I'm dealing with the most frustrating API at the moment.
This thing does not give out proper responses.
Not at all.
Undocumented APIs are one of the exquisite pleasures of some of my work because I basically have to spelunk several endpoints to figure out what I'm doing.
Yeah, and even those that are not necessarily just because it's documented doesn't mean it's been implemented.
Oh, that's absolutely true, which is why I typically try to make sure that I keep my documentation up to date, even though I hate the process.
Yeah.
Okay, that's good.
I'm not going to process that now.
I'm just going to leave the skin.
And then I can process that at some other point.
Okay, I'll talk to you guys later.
I need to go do some stuff now.
Take care, Ken. Good talking with you.
Yeah, great talking to you.
I need to get some sleep.
I'll be back on later.
Sleep well.
Yeah.
Good to hear from you, Knapp.
I'll be back in fourth all day as well.
What was that just now?
The YouTube number thing.
What was that?
The text to speech pit.
That's somebody in chat.
Was that something actually in the chat?
Yeah, I believe by default.
It will do text to speech on anybody chatting.
I was okay.
It was there.
I know he came back to my foot.
It's from somebody on the chat.
Okay.
Hey, guys.
Happy New Year.
Not yet here, but yeah.
No, not yet here either.
I was like 11.51 a.m.
Where I am.
Quebec.
Happy New Year.
Happy New Year.
All right.
11.51 a.m.
4.51 p.m.
Okay.
I would have been on this earlier.
Actually, but I've had that.
It's a set of problems with my devices and stuff.
I've been there.
Actually, I've been in the world of windows last few days
because I've had my laptop back recently.
New motherboard and new hard disk.
Type back to windows 8.1.
Type grade 10, which was a cause hassle on itself.
During the updates,
the windows 10 that didn't load up for a bit properly.
Blue screen, you know, the blue screen even.
And then I'm like, yay.
I'm on the different stage.
Also, I thought last night.
And then guess what happened.
You're worried.
What?
You say what?
Yes.
What?
I basically got a,
I so downloaded for Bunty 16.04,
three because I'm going to put a few district stuff on there.
But Bunty onto USB stick with the etcher seems to work.
But then it's having problems loading up the USB stick.
It could get grabbed up and it goes back screen.
So I did it with unit built in,
whatever it's called as well.
And with different USB stick today.
And it's basically not loading up.
I don't know why.
After I, when it should be loading up,
it's getting again the black screen instead.
And I get grabbed.
But after that.
Okay.
So I don't know if that's just,
I used to have that one here.
Well, I used to have it in a Bunty 16.04
on that laptop.
So I don't know if it's,
maybe it's a problem with the ISO,
who knows, these days,
especially when you hear the news about 17.10
and the Novo.
I mean, that's on the Bunty website itself,
still when my last looked.
Yeah.
I have a little P580.
Blenix meant 17.21,
quietly customised.
I've had it just the way I like it for the last three years.
And I'm dreading the day.
I have to jump to another distro
or go to the latest Blenix Mate,
because I like the way I got it set up now.
Yeah, but that was a bug in the,
the Noots 4.3 kernel
that basically stops,
that basically corrupts the BIOS
on some of the laptops of Novo.
Wanted to see,
to see if I think as well.
And what's still on the,
so they made the ISO not be downloadable
on the Bunty website itself
for the message,
or obviously you can download it elsewhere still.
But that's not very good, is it?
No.
In fact,
one of the hinges on my laptop is broken,
and so it's permanently open,
and using it as a regular desktop computer now.
And contemplating what computer
and we're going to get next to the desktop computer.
Right, well,
I mean, I got my laptop,
I got this SAP laptop,
I've got specifically fixed again,
because it's got touch screen.
It used to work okay enough
when it actually works with the Noots
and so on as well,
although it did overheat
from the beginning,
that was really HP's fault,
but it's, you know,
it's bad to pay to get our fix
annoyingly still,
but the,
but yeah, I got that laptop fixed
so it works so nicely with the UFI,
or it should do,
but I've just said I've had a problem
booting up a bank
who properly from a USB,
I don't know if that's related to anything,
but anyway.
I don't remember when I put
my experience to that laptop.
I just went into the bios,
turned on UFI.
I didn't want to deal with all that.
Yeah, we got TV on the back of our Amazon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is being my sister watching
for like some movie around.
Amazon called Margaret.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Okay, yeah,
but okay, that's,
well, I don't know about your country,
but in the UK,
that could be 10 years under,
I mean,
you're not meant to record stuff
off to TV,
they say in the cinemas,
and from all,
I was not joking.
Anyway, yeah.
Yeah, I know.
I have to go upstairs.
Yeah.
Is there any else?
Maybe.
Is there any else?
No.
I have people to spare it.
No, I'm still here.
I'm just busily coding away.
Okay.
Trying to knock these features out
before I have to...
Never did I.
Never did I.
I've never used plumbull busol.
This is the first time I'm actually using plumbull.
Yeah.
They act for Android.
For plumbull.
It's quite nice.
It's quite nice what I'm using at the moment.
Well,
I don't know.
I mean, I couldn't get into this channel,
Ken put me in,
but I couldn't seem to drag myself in,
so there was a...
I don't know what will cause that, but, yeah.
I was fed and eating windows for this,
because I remember doing that in the past
when I was setting up a laptop,
as well,
because, whatever,
you know,
I've had to knock you windows at all,
in that sense,
but there you go.
Well, I did put...
Specifically what phone I'm using at the moment,
because that's meant to be a good phone,
a good Android phone, as well.
And I would say the Sony implementation
of the Xperia X is quite good.
However, I have to actually...
I bought a full price,
not on the contract, you know.
And I bought to do a specific purpose with this phone.
And I've got to go ahead with that, really.
Otherwise, I've just defeated a point of buying this phone.
And, I mean, I do want my specific purposes,
with this particular phone.
According to Xperia episodes?
No, no.
No, no.
So, I've got to re-flash it.
That's a hint,
but what am I going to re-flash it?
Where is the question?
That is a good question.
I have no idea.
What are you going to use?
You're from America, aren't you?
So, I mean,
I don't know if you've had this one, actually.
Obviously, a bunch of you touched
a lot of, you know, enough hype.
But that's only under UB ports.
It's not that.
Five Fox RS is obviously long gone now, as well.
But there is one alternative Linux player left, really.
I mean, mobile player.
They nearly went bankrupt as a company,
because they've invested a problem.
But they are still around doing the software
and getting hardware deals elsewhere now,
or sort of thing.
But do you want to talk about all?
It's not Symbian, is it?
No, but...
No, that's gone as well.
But you would be...
Well, you're kind of close,
so to say Nokia is a sort of hint, as well.
But what kind of is?
I'll say Nokia is a sort of hint, but...
Well, it's not Osmacom,
because that's not Linux.
I'm not sure.
You're from America, aren't you?
So, you'd like to be why?
Yep, I certainly am.
Have you heard of...
See if I can say these things, right?
I might say this is a bit wrong, but we'll see.
Yolo or Yolo?
And Sailfish? Or Sat-Talifish?
Yeah, Sailfish was my next guess.
I should have jumped on that one first,
when you kept saying I was American.
Yeah, well, at least it places like Fosdom.
It seems to be not that big deal.
If you got your Yolo phone these days and bustles,
but you know, that's there.
I think it's more popular on the mainland,
so not here in the UK.
But I did have a Yolo phone,
which was all right, that'll be...
How was it a bit?
But it's okay.
The operating system can probably do more than Android there,
because it can also run most Android apps.
When I last tried on the Yolo phone,
it ran pretty much every Android app
that I sent part on it okay enough.
When I put a Zoom native app on there,
I got into a problem,
but that's because I haven't upgraded
to the latest version of the operating system.
But yeah.
Yeah, I had great interest in that,
but never could find a phone that would do it.
I was also afraid the project had kind of died.
I know they had had some disagreements,
but it's good to know that it's still available.
Oh, yeah, it can post...
Well, yeah, the tablet...
A few people got it.
I've got half-free fund.
That's most people, my second part.
See, I get some refund.
Actually, they're trying to sell me the Sony Xperia,
sorry, the sale-fisher,
S4 Sony Xperia, X and all the options.
This is how you can spend the part of your refund if you want.
So I need to get that paid for really
under something.
That's not a discount for that,
actually, slightly in the mind.
Because they're still selling it as an operating system,
which makes sense,
because they're not doing hardware anymore.
So they still have to,
they're company have to make some money,
they don't know, so that's fine.
And also, actually, it's not completely open-source,
but because the interface isn't apparently,
but I don't think that matters that much,
because it's mostly open-source otherwise.
And it's actually quite good.
It's been a month for their own native apps,
and the operating system itself is quite nice, actually.
I typically run only free software where I can,
but I don't believe that phones are a place where you can do that.
I'm using,
I was using Replicant for a while.
Now I'm using Lineage simply because the phone I had running Replicant
took a swim,
and I couldn't find another one.
So the phone that I had,
given to me after that,
try not to buy these things on contract if I can avoid it,
but it would not run Replicant,
so I'm running Lineage.
However,
I can imagine going into a contract for something like
Sailfish would be a good plan.
It seems like a solid operating system.
Oh, well, that won't go on the contract,
I don't think,
because, or 90 times seen,
because how the market generally is like,
however,
we're talking about sort of open-source,
what you just mentioned, open-source phones,
and you probably mean privacy,
more privacy-respecting, ideally as well.
Did you hear of the,
Nebrem that they were crowdfunding
in the last sort of three months or so?
They got like two, two million dollars,
something,
so it got in the end,
it's got a lot of money.
Quite an expensive phone,
but I still don't want one of those as well,
but no one's going to get until 2019,
anyway, by the earliest.
Yeah, I'm glad that there's,
pardon the noise,
I'm starting some tea here,
but I'm glad that there's a community around,
or several communities around,
building a more privacy-enabled phone,
but I think the biggest issue is the baseband.
Of course, it all comes back to your threat model, right?
I'm not too worried about state actors,
because I feel like I'm already screwed there anyway,
but the baseband having,
being totally opaque,
is a problem,
because if there are any backdoors there,
once one of those backdoors becomes,
semi-public knowledge
and is out of state control,
then everybody's phones are compromised,
and it's just a bad situation,
but that's why I'm glad that those communities are there,
and yes, the phones are awfully expensive,
and we'll take a long time to build,
but hopefully it'll be the foundation
for some new options.
I don't know how likely it is
in the age of rampant capitalism
that those options will come to light,
but the markets will tell us
if that's what people want or not,
and in the meantime,
I will save my pennies
and buy one when I can.
I think, well, actually,
I really like the UB pull,
some message,
it's a little map,
the Ubuntu top community fork,
because obviously conicals rock that,
but the community carry on,
but they have a nice little app
that basically talks about what the UB pull is,
and it's also on the websites
on whether it's same text really,
but it's like,
okay, we can't really compete against Android and iPhone
because the market is how it is,
but it doesn't really matter now
because we are community operating system,
we are community who are carrying on with bugs,
something like that,
and I think that's basically it,
and they have,
but yeah, it was a community
who can carry on,
apparently Mark wanted to carry it on,
actually, in conical,
but the board didn't,
but I'm just going to say apparently to that,
but it doesn't really matter so much,
but it is a shame that that one failed
in that sense,
it didn't really take off a bit more,
but one debate was that it wouldn't mind Android apps
any way,
and it had to do that,
and I don't know,
obviously, Stamson has Tyson as well,
they can do that,
but they're not going to just release all the advice
with Tyson,
and,
but yeah, these may be,
maybe these are niche OSs,
but maybe that's just how it is
when you think about it,
because I've been thinking about recently,
and actually,
there's a lot of people,
I would,
iPhones, for example,
they're not particularly technical people,
but they,
they'll then,
they'll all over the place to use people,
and they really like iPhones,
and they probably like the iPhone,
because,
or an iPad,
possibly, they've got that,
because, you know,
it works quite well,
really,
and compared to, say,
Windows, you know,
it works better, doesn't it?
So, and they probably know that,
deep down,
a lot of these people,
that Windows is not that good,
and that's probably also why Windows,
sort of fails now,
Microsoft has given up on it,
we will not have,
yeah,
they're not going to do Windows phones anymore,
they're only going to provide apps,
androids,
and I think,
I think iOS,
I think, maybe,
deep down,
a lot of people,
who aren't technical,
so, you know,
that Windows is not very good,
it crashes,
it reboots,
it's not particularly stable,
it's not that reliable,
and that's maybe,
why iPhones are more popular,
and Android,
and even,
quote,
books,
I spoke to some extent,
because that's in the shop,
as the company is selling this stuff,
otherwise I'm not going to,
just get it either,
that's the difference between them,
and that's,
we know about thing,
we'll pull it on,
we'll buy,
do I specifically,
the public or not?
Yeah,
I agree with you for the most part,
and even though those people,
not those people,
those discussions,
like at Ubuntu,
were shot down,
the ideas were shot down,
at least the discussions were had,
and I think those discussions can be,
remembered in future projects,
and they can also influence,
future decisions,
so it's a good thing that they were had.
On that note,
I'm going to have to step away for,
probably about 10 minutes or so
to make some food,
I'll be back shortly.
Thanks for the conversation.
Thanks for the conversation.
Yeah,
is anybody else here,
actually or not?
Right, yeah,
I guess not then,
because I was thinking of going out for a little bit,
and then coming back,
anyways,
and stuff like that,
so yeah,
I'm talking to myself,
man.
Back in the world,
there's a couple of people here.
One person's left,
as a person,
or was that it?
Oh, I'm still around,
but I'll be back in fourth all day,
so if you got to go out,
cheers, man,
I'll see you later.
No, yeah,
I'm going to,
yeah, I'll be back in a bit myself.
Yeah, this is Bondo,
I've just been finishing it listening.
Unless we get to a really good chat,
a man will choke down a little bit later.
Very near.
Actually, I've 10 o'clock
until I want,
for where I want to go,
it's at,
and that's a little shot
before it closes,
because a new year.
Not the five hours,
in other words,
or just about.
My really echoing now,
well not by the way,
or back loop,
or whatever it is.
Okay, yeah,
back in about 20 minutes,
then,
if anybody's actually listening to me,
well,
half an hour later.
Of course,
I just missed,
uh,
Claudio Am.
Hey guys,
anybody talking out there?
Or am I just out hearing you?
We're here.
So I'm just going to come,
like I do.
Not much to say this year.
Yeah, it's quite the moment,
but I'll be back in about half an hour,
and then,
let's,
let's go to the chat,
for a chat,
if something's there.
Okay, yeah,
it's just curious,
because I just grabbed my laptop,
and I'm mobile with it,
as opposed to being plugged into the microphone.
Didn't know if it was configured right.
Yeah, then,
yeah,
but it's quite loud all right.
Yeah, then,
it really helped me,
it's quite a room.
But anyway,
you're giving me about half an hour,
so I'll be back.
So yeah.
Has anybody heard from Claudio in a while?
Because, uh,
I don't know.
Okay, because he's in Australia, right?
New Zealand, I think.
Hey,
put to us in, you know,
North America here,
it's the same thing, right?
To you it is.
You tell them that,
they'll feel crazy.
But that's my job.
I don't rich.
I don't know if you're crazy,
or you just like to miss,
make people make trouble.
Well,
you know, if I was really industrious,
I would go through all of the tilled
episodes of 2017 and,
and put it cut together all the times.
I made Joel Curse or scream or something.
No, we don't want to hear that again.
But what I wanted to do
is when you really went off,
I think you made Dan mad.
You know what,
here's a thing.
My goal is never to make anybody angry.
That's,
I,
and,
that,
I did that on Facebook.
Some guy just lost.
Yeah.
And,
and I think the other thing is,
it's very funny.
Somebody,
many years ago,
gave me a mug that said,
I refused to have battle with,
of which,
with an unarmed opponent.
And,
you know,
Dan, I,
of course,
considered a well-armed opponent.
But some random person on Facebook
just lost their,
their mind.
And,
I was like,
yeah,
you know,
maybe I shouldn't go at it with somebody.
I don't know.
Yeah.
You don't know how they are.
But Dan was well equipped that night, though.
He knew what he was talking about.
Well,
I, I,
I don't want to stir that whole topic up again,
but I, I still,
uh,
a,
hmm, yeah.
In fact, if I was not going to stir that whole topic up,
again,
I wouldn't make any further comment.
Yep.
Well, that's the whole thing about season discourse.
I think that's the trouble with America today.
People don't have talk.
Even if it makes you mad,
at least talk,
and get your feelings out there.
But people don't want to do that anymore.
All right.
Wait, RWA,
you're Russ, right?
Well,
Ridge.
Oh, okay.
Um,
in,
I don't know if you watched Latter With Crowder,
but he has, uh,
paid content and YouTube content.
And on YouTube,
he's doing,
like he goes to a college campus,
sets up a table,
you know, he has microphones and, you know,
go pros and stuff like that.
And he says,
hey,
here's the topic,
change my mind.
You know,
whether it's Second Amendment,
uh,
you know,
there's only two genders.
Change my mind.
And the idea is to have a reasoned discussion with people.
And I don't,
I mean,
I think it's polite,
but I don't know if it gets,
I don't know if it achieves anything.
Maybe,
maybe a third party watching it going on
will,
will come to a conclusion based on it.
But I don't know if the people that are,
he's engaging,
actually,
have a change of heart or anything.
I have a thing in those,
but I've heard people talking about it.
You know,
if as long as you can talk about anything,
as long as you're talking,
and that's half the battle right there.
But,
but here in the US,
we don't want to even talk, you know.
If you don't like my opinion,
they just cut you off.
And I,
when I went to college back in the late 70s,
you know,
college was the open ground,
and you could talk about anything.
Now you can't do that at college anymore.
They shake you down.
So,
and it doesn't matter if you're a liberal or conservative
or whatever,
they don't want to hear.
And so,
there's no discussion,
no opinions.
Everybody supposedly has one opinion.
But that's not how life is.
Everybody has an opinion about something.
And when everybody's talking about the same thing,
with the same opinions,
nothing can get done.
Well,
and that's the thing.
Like we,
we could talk about,
there's simple topics,
and then there's more complex topics.
And,
well, actually,
I don't know how many are too simple,
but I was going to say something like
net neutrality that went through.
There,
there's things I liked,
and things I disliked,
but there was more I disliked in the government net neutrality.
But one of the things that I would like is,
I think I explained this on TILTS,
is I think of the internet as the gas in my car,
and the gas shouldn't be telling me where I can go
or what I can do.
Likewise,
with Comcast,
they shouldn't be throttling my Netflix,
unless Netflix pays more.
That's bull crap.
Yep.
I agree with you.
I'm on Comcast now,
but I went through that with Cox Cable,
this early this year.
I became a court-cutter
because this time,
last year,
I had to,
I'd say I think about leaving Cox,
and can you re-up me
for the next year without an increase?
Every time I tried last year,
this time,
they kept saying,
no, we can't re-up to,
you're going to have to pay $150
and all of a sudden,
so just,
I just went crazy
and just canceled my Cox
and just went with the internet.
And in my town,
at that time,
you either had Cox
or you didn't have nobody
to get on the internet.
So,
I was stuck.
It seemed like,
you know,
every time they could stick it to me,
they stuck it to me.
So,
now I'm with Comcast
in Atlanta, Georgia,
and they're better than Cox to me right now.
Yeah.
I,
say that's a problem.
Is,
I don't know if they put
the on some sort of intro service
or whatever.
I've got to have a double play
because otherwise,
if I get internet only,
it costs more than,
if I get a double play or triple play.
And, you know,
the other part of that
is, you know,
a layer of abstraction.
I have Vonage.
And the Vonage works on any,
you know,
internet provider.
So,
if,
if I had Comcast
for my home phone,
which nobody uses,
then I,
if I go somewhere else,
then it's a big hassle
changing the number.
But realistically,
with Vonage,
I just plug it in somewhere else.
Yep.
I know what you mean.
Well,
last year,
this time,
I had the
Cox cable bundle
that I had
for about 10 years.
You pay $100 a month
for phone,
internet,
and television.
Never used the telephone
into the,
unplugging the telephone.
But I used the internet,
and I watched my,
and I watched TV
via the cable.
I didn't have
the big cable package
with 200 channels.
I just had
the regular cable.
You know,
you watch USA
and AMC and all that.
But,
when I went to re-up,
they sure did not
want me to
keep paying what I was paying.
They wanted $150 a month,
and I wasn't going to do that.
And they didn't want to talk about it.
So,
I don't know what was,
what was their
problem that week.
But I ended up
going straight,
cordless.
I mean,
you know,
without the TV,
the internet.
And,
it's been,
it was an experience.
I even did a podcast
about my
troubles with cost-cable.
But it was,
it was a nice experience,
and I'm glad I did.
Cut cable.
But then,
I moved the month ago
to Atlanta, Georgia,
and I got
Comcast.
They gave me one of them
deals again.
So,
it was cheaper to go
with the all-in bundled
than just without the internet.
So,
that's where I'm at now.
We'll see
next year
when they want me
to re-up.
Yeah, I'm
wondering if I,
I got to put the cable
in my daughter's name,
so I can get some sort
of discount next time.
Like, we just
keep changing names
on the cable account.
Oh, yeah.
Get the little
education plan going.
Yeah,
something.
I,
it's serious.
I just want,
oh,
and Comcast,
they,
I think they have
that you throttled,
I'm sorry.
After a terabyte
a month,
they start charging you.
I guess we watched
a lot of video this month.
Yeah.
That's how Cox
was.
They converted everybody
last year.
October,
this time,
they gave everybody a
terabyte.
I came
close at few times
with the terabyte,
but they said
the first two months,
if you went
over terabyte limit,
they,
it was,
they would
not charge you
within after that.
Fresh.
$10
every,
every hundred gigabytes
or something,
you know,
I think Comcast has
the same thing.
Yep.
Yeah.
This month,
I think I came up
about $880
in the gigabytes.
So, you know.
Yeah,
we got an even
high screen all day.
All night,
I'm retired.
I do what I
need to do.
And if I need to,
if I go over
month,
then I'll go over.
But I'm thinking
that with all this net neutrality
and everything,
somebody needs to have
an unlimited plan
where
you can play,
pay a decent amount
of money
and get what you want
with no throttling
and no extra charges
or anything.
I'd be up
for that.
So,
and again,
here's my opinion on this.
Is,
I don't buy,
I don't pay Comcast
because I like Comcast.
I pay Comcast
for internet service
because I want
YouTube netflix,
Amazon video,
whatever else I may be doing.
You know,
or to remotely control my home
or or VPN
into my home,
those kinds of things.
I'm not
paying them
for them.
I'm paying them
for these other things.
And if they've,
you know,
food bar these other things,
then I don't need them.
That I'm mad at them.
And I think that's where
Netflix went wrong
when Comcast put the gun
in their chest,
they should have said,
hey, you know,
what throttle us
and see what kind of complaint
you get?
Yeah,
but Netflix didn't do that.
They just said,
we'll pay you.
And that's what they did.
I started having trouble
with Netflix
on my cost cable.
I'd start a video
and about two minutes in,
just past the credits,
the video would stop.
And I would have to reboot
my Roku to watch Netflix.
And I ended up starting
watching more Amazon
and Hulu than I did Netflix.
I kept Netflix.
But for a while there,
I had all kinds of trouble
with Netflix.
I don't know.
Cox was throttling them
or not.
But,
but now,
since I'm on Comcast,
I don't have any problem
with anybody.
I don't know what the deal
was.
Okay,
because I was going to ask you,
was it the Roku?
Was it the firmware?
Was it the Roku?
Like you said,
and when you start messing
with that,
then you've got a problem.
So in town here,
there's a place called
Harborside.
They're doing a new
years thing.
And I think it's free.
And they're going to show
the ball drop.
And my daughter just
chimed in.
It's free.
But there were some hotels
in that small,
there's,
you know, there's shops
and stuff like that.
So there's a party
at the hotel also.
But they have an amphitheater
there on the intercoastle.
And they're going to show
a big screen with the ball drop.
So we're going to go to that
tonight.
And last week,
we've had days
into the 80s.
And today it's like
66 degrees right now.
I'd love to have some
66s.
It's in low 30s
and upper 20s
this whole week.
I'm in Atlanta.
So, you know,
we had the snow
the other week.
They were talking about it
this week.
But it didn't come through.
It just ended up being
very, very cold.
And so that's what we're dealing
with.
We have a peach drop
in underground Atlanta.
I don't plan on going
to that because it's going to be cold
with the dickens.
Hold on.
My daughter's talking to me.
Okay.
So the place we want to go to,
they say, you know,
the activity started at 9 p.m.
They're going to have a band
and whatever.
And I'm like, heck,
I don't want to stand around
for three hours.
In fact, I'd rather get there
at 11 o'clock.
You know, like, you know,
maybe 10, 30 or so.
So I don't have to stand around.
And my daughter's like,
we ought to get there early
because there may be issues
parking.
But they got a couple of
parking garages there and stuff.
So I don't know.
Well, you get there early.
You will stand around.
You get there late.
You might not be near the
ball drop.
That's the problem.
I just plan on staying home.
I'll trick me some Jack Daniels
or some couple of scotch
tonight and bring in the
happy new year.
Yeah, I hear you.
I'm usually all in for that.
I don't like traveling on New
Year's Eve.
That's not my forte.
Yep.
And especially around here,
all the Georgia State Patrol
and the Georgia Brewer
investigation will be out
with their DUI checkpoint.
So stay home.
I could ride the subway if I
wanted to.
But I don't know.
There's a subway in Atlanta.
What?
What about Atlanta?
I didn't know there was a
subway in Atlanta.
Yeah.
It's called Marta.
It's the Metropolitan Atlanta
Rapid Transit.
It comes with a system
that have combination subway
and bus system.
You might end up coming off
the subway and catching a bus
or you might catch a bus
or you end up getting
on a subway.
It depends on where you're going.
So there's fireworks up.
My daughter said there was
8,000 people at this event
last year.
So I don't know.
Well, my wife.
I guess she's, she's been
sick for about a week.
So I think she just wants
to get out.
I think she just wants to get out. So she's like, yeah, let's go to this thing.
Happy wife, happy life. Yeah, yeah.
Gosh, yeah, I'm looking outside. It's pretty out, but it's, you know, 66 degrees. Like you said,
you'd kill for 60 degrees.
Yeah, it's 34 degrees here in Dunlady, Georgia.
So my brother, my brother, what are you doing for pool of water is warmer than the outside?
Oh, be quiet. Quiet.
I'll be back in a few minutes. Okay, I'm in and out too. I'm going silent for a while.
Are you here, Mr. Jackson? Yeah, I'm here.
Yeah, I'm having fevers in two weeks.
That seems a lot sooner than normal, probably than I.
It's the 12th and 13th that weekend. I'll have to let you know.
Just put it out there, man. Yeah, I keep forgetting to even check for it. So
I've figured, is anybody out there?
Yeah.
We don't want a day day.
Cause Casper can't, don't want any dead air
Cause Casper cares about the podcast
Trying to give some audio to everybody
Cause, don't know that anyone's out there
Transmitted from live, live, live, live
Oh, a hacker of the radio
We don't know
Stalking to a lot of people before
No more, no more
I got public radio
Where did everybody go?
Dead air, dead air, dead air, dead air
Not the show, not the show, not the show
Not the show
Come on, come on, come on
Come on, come on, is that everybody out there
Oh, a hacker of the radio
Podcasts can't just be yelling, it's me won't attack
We won't attack, come on
Somebody help me out there
Maybe I'll keep my goo
Are you there?
I'll keep my goo
Oh yeah, there he is
All right
Yes, I just came back for a bit
And what I hear I get to hear that
That's what we need more music on the podcast
You might not be Johnny Bacon or something like that
But it doesn't matter, more guitar it is
It should be Casper
Yes, yes
Transmitting frequencies
Everybody, we are now
We are now, let's do math
Oh, geez
We are now eight hours in to the hacker public radio
Live stream, live stream
Live
One plus one
Equals three
Three plus two
Seven
You win the war that maps, congratulations
What do I win?
You get three out of five old maps for a week
That's your award
No, we like to play on grays
But thank you for letting me know everything's working
Yes
All right, glad that
Oh, we got Gordon
We got Neford
You're just tuning in
This is hacker public radio
At eight hours and eighteen minutes
Live, live
Come on, somebody help me out
Let me know we're still going
Let me know this is still happening
Anyone, anyone
Come on, come on
Can we hear the machine?
Yes
And we will rage against it
This is what happens when it goes away
And there's no one to
Murder with the show
What do you know?
How can public radio go on?
In this galaxy are the next three
This is a spectacle
Expect us to come on
Somebody stop me and interrupt me
I don't can't be the only one on the cast
But I suspect that we're having trouble
Oh, there we go
Come on now
I was just enjoying it so much
I didn't want to interrupt you
I was somebody with that
Please
We're having some good conversations earlier
Having some checks across checks
Ken was with us some time ago
And I had to check out
For anyone joining us
This is hacker public radio
I'm going to put a link to the etherpad
Everybody, if you could take notes
As you go on, that would be greatly appreciated
It's so colorful
Turn that off
Yes, so
How do you pronounce?
Sorry, I'm set up for my ham radio stuff
So that's actually my call sign
So you are also a ham?
Yes, yes
Okay, good, good
That's good to know
Yeah, I do the Linux and the ham shack podcast with Russ
Oh, great, great
That was one of the transmissions we picked up
From above the VNL and belt
And we enjoyed it quite a bit
That's great
Yeah, actually I sent away for one of those starter kits
Or something to get my new license
Oh, yeah
But I either didn't get it
Or it became a part of the mountain of mail
And then, you know, maybe it...
I mean, I don't even know what I'm talking about
It must have been a while ago
Because I don't remember doing starter kits
But I've only been with a show for about a year and a half now
Oh, okay, okay
Well, that's well longer than aliens have been with the podcast
Yeah
Yeah, just listening in here
I was doing some work and caught the stream
I was like, oh, I wonder if I have it set up to even connect here in the office
And of course, I do
It's too cold in the garage right now for me to go out there
Where I actually do most of my recording
It's like negative 10 outside or something
Something stupid
Where are you there? It's negative 10
Billings, Montana
That would be it
Yeah, it might be warmer now
Let's see, oh, no, my stance still
There we go
Yeah, so, are you up to the level of him?
Himminess where you can transmit gifs
Anybody can do that
What are you talking about?
Slow scan TV
Yeah, yeah, I've been a hamper 20 some odd years
And I have my extra license
Extra license
Ooh
That's exciting
Tell us, give us a little rundown, a little disorientation as to how you go about getting a license
How that goes, I know there's a website you go to if you put that in the notes of great
Sure
Yeah, so basically I mean in order to get started
There's three license types or three license classes that you can get
And the first one is a technician license
And you can get study guides
You can get them for free online
It's basically a question pool
Memorize the question and the answer and you can go take the take the I think it's like a 35 question test or something close to that 35 or 50 questions
I haven't taken a test for like that in a while
But there's tons of guides online I think KB6 and you have some you know easy ham study guides
That are really helpful for some hams and there's also
WB6 NOA Gordon West he has his study guides and stuff like that if you want to buy a printed guide
Those would probably be the best options
Or you know look up for a local club in your town most clubs most towns have small groups of clubs that run like either repeaters or classes or testing sessions
And they can definitely get anyone interested in in ham radio setup to get a test and you know get on the air for the first time and
Kind of get them on their way to doing whatever they would like to do in the ham radio hobby
Whether that be emergency services or you know just you know sending gifs
Whatever you want on the radio and you know definitely point you to the right class of license that you need in order to accomplish what you want to do with it
Thank you
So this is probably going to come off as a stupid question but what as a ham what do you do?
Well it's a hobby so what do I do?
I just screw around on the radio that's basically all I do
You could do whatever you want to do it's just interesting hobby a lot of people you know in the early days used to get into it just for experimenting and you know
It was a progression from CB and you know it's kind of evolved over the years where a lot of your entry level hams these days are more interested in doing some emergency communications
Whether that be you know running radios at a walkathon or you know helping with you know natural disaster like fires and hurricanes and what have you
And then other one other was just you know kind of messing around with the various new technologies like digital modes they have a bunch of new
Well they're always coming out with new digital modes digital voice digital you know a text digital texting across the airwaves
And and then experimenting with low power homemade antennas a lot of people are hams and in the cities and you know you can't put up monster towers and beams and you know big wire antenna
So you know we have a lot of people that experiment with low power small antenna design so you can have like a stealth setup and and still be able to operate around the world
And yeah there's just so many aspects of the hobby I mean everybody always wonders is like you know what do you do for well everybody does it for something different that's that's the kind of cool part about the hobby
There's so many vast so many different aspects of the hobby that it doesn't it doesn't really doesn't really have a single purpose or direction which is interesting
See it always seem very fascinating to me and all the technology around it seems really really cool I just I can never and this is this is definitely a me thing I would definitely want to put down the hobby in any any way shape or form I could never come up with any sort of thing to do with it I mean I can you know go out by all the equipment to get myself certified and then after that I'm not sure what I would do you know
Yeah I mean that's common too I mean some people get into it not really knowing what they what they want I mean what really drew me into the hobby you know 20 years ago was sort of contesting
I kind of saw this aspect of the radio whereas more of a sport and kind of high paced fast paced you know setting up a station out in the middle of nowhere camping which is something I enjoy doing
And then you know basically trying to get as many contacts as possible within a certain amount of time and capture all the information into your log properly logging their correct call signs and stuff like that
And that's really a draw drew me to the hobby and I still kind of tinker around with that today I don't really have as much time as I used to have to do that stuff
But yeah so that's that's kind of what hooked me and I kind of gear my entire station and everything else for that and yeah I mean if you don't see anything of value in the hobby that you could you know enjoy yourself then yeah it's definitely not for you
don't don't do it just because somebody else is doing it
Well I only said because all the technology around the the ham radio stuff seems really cool it seems really interesting but I like I said I just I can't I can't get myself to that next step of I have all of it I can get all this stuff to work and then one
But I definitely like I said I don't want to I don't ever want to put the down because it definitely seems like a really really cool hobby
Yeah yeah I mean it falls into the you know I guess the you see more of the makers and stuff like that getting involved in it nowadays with you know integrating raspberry pie with telemetry units and all of a sudden they're like well I I want something that transmits further than the ISM band little you know 900 megahertz and and stuff devices I use for medical and you know so that that can that can tick those people into getting you know the entry level license which allows them all those VHF and high frequency
or the VHF and UHF frequencies that they can put a little bit higher power you know telemetry beacons and and stuff like that on their their little the projects or IOT devices that are maybe not necessarily connected to the internet.
So yeah I mean it's a transitional thing it's a you know the hobbies more of kind of it comes on the edges of other hobbies I think for the most part
the older the older guys that got into the hobby for contesting or you know two bricks or something like that that you know they're probably involved in other aspects of the hobby and not necessarily experimenting although I know tons and tons of guys have been the hobby for for a long time that are you know experimenting with you know various raspberry pie devices trying to build a better smaller you know little Linux box I can do all their little communications
and run their FTA and all these digital modes and stuff like that so yeah it's it's it's it's just yeah if it's weirdly in society today for sure it's it's definitely has multiple entry points and multiple uses but you really gotta gotta want one of these you know extra extra ticks you know in order to get involved in the hobby today you know like the RC guys used to get into it for like if high powered RC remotes.
And I knew several people appear in billions that that basically that's all they got their license for was so they can have a high powered RC remote they could carry less about the whole talking and learning everything else and you only needed to entry level license for that.
Yeah I haven't talked anybody in years.
Yeah that needs to change we need to get the broadcast out we need to get John KT 4K B out there out on the street with the hands.
I've contacted in the last let's say the last year probably 3000 people but not with my voice I get tongue tied so I've talked to you know communicated with so many people I do the weird stuff I bounce signals off of meteorites and a couple other weird things like that.
Have you detected our transmissions from the self ban out of milk.
Well I'll do it this way I have proved to myself with my own equipment the flatter society is incorrect.
10 for we aliens can see the blue marble from above and we see that there is no no truth to the shelling conspiracy it's just another just another attempt to discredit the real news.
Well there's two things that go into this and you know one is if the earth was flat by now cats would have knocked everything off of it so I think that's proof enough.
Yeah and then that one guy with the rocket launcher RV motorhome conversion and that was going to fly a rocket manned by himself to 1,800 feet not 1.8 miles but 1,800 feet was going to prove what the earth was round or not I mean you get a tall ladder you go up 1,800 feet.
You don't need to get yourself on top of explosives to do that.
No and hacker public radio I don't believe would condone the use of explosives upon yourself to get you to great heights that's that's not necessary.
We don't need any real live rocket jumping well I think Wiley Coyote figure that out right.
We would hope so we would hope people would would learn that lesson from a young age I don't think Wiley Coyote ever learn that lesson oh see that that's the kind of stuff you need to you need to transmit you need to get it out there.
So where's Fitty one Fitty and the nitty gritty down by the city such pity.
Come on it's got to be noon by him he's got to be up by now one what hope but we're not we're not here we're not there we're everywhere.
Oh last couple years he came on early on in the morning and then left for a one errands and then came back on late for a night but I've learned from it all.
So is anybody have plans for tonight going out doing something stayed in.
Had a great new year's Eve so far with everybody on the hacker public radio channel I'll tell you that much.
Why do you why do you have any wild crazy plans.
Now we're there's a shopping center called harbor side in Palm Beach here so they're going to have they have an amphitheater and they're going to have a big screen TV show the ball drop and fireworks.
And if it's my budget it's free.
That sounds nice.
Sounds lovely.
Unfortunately for us Floridians right now I don't know it's going to be in the 60s when that happened so we're all you know going to put on our Arctic gear you know like ski boots survival suits those kinds of things.
It's so funny I'm what was I wearing yesterday.
I think I probably walk around flip flops long pants and a t-shirt and they're people with like ski jackets on.
Must be in South Florida.
You guys man.
The second it gets below 70 here people they got scarves and mittens and I'm like really well you know it's it's the humidity it makes it a very cold wet coldness.
Keep telling yourself that.
And I live in Florida for like 30 years.
I'm used to those people.
I'm out taking off Florida.
Yeah my parents still live there and yeah they they they would never come up here it's it's so so darn cold.
Like no when it gets 40 in Florida they freak out.
I'm ready to leave the heat of South Carolina but the job won't let me.
So you got you got to tell the job that that they need to give John some more flexibility so he can spread his wings and fly.
Well I believe they want to get rid of us so oh well.
They do want to get rid of us but that's why we're here on Hacker Public Radio to discuss communications ways of of
the flexing ways of adapting to the the robots taking.
How are we going to adapt and change how are we going to going to adapt so that robots don't take all of our jobs once we've
done all this fine programming and programmed all these robots to do every conceivable thing we can think of if they don't enslave us.
How do we continue on?
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