hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr1578.txt

Episode: 1578
Title: HPR1578: AudioBookClub-08-How to Succeed in Evil:The Novel
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr1578/hpr1578.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-18 05:22:09

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Hello and welcome back to Hacker Public Radio.
Today you've got another episode of the Hacker Public Radio Audio Book Club.
And I am one of your co-hosts, Pokey.
And with us today also is 5150.
Howdy folks.
We got Taj.
What's good guys?
And X1101.
Howdy.
That's good to be back.
I like doing the book club on a regular basis.
So thanks a lot guys for making this happen.
Anyway, our book this week or this month rather was how to succeed and evil
the novel by Patrick E. McLean.
And as I said in the last show notes and we announced it not to be confused with the original
podcast. This one was a bit edited and the story was moved around a bit so that it was more
linear and it's a more of a finished product.
So it is a separate thing.
And the first thing I want to say about this, just in case anyone is listening to this episode
and hasn't listened to the audio book and it's insure if they want to or not,
is it's not a very long audio book at all.
It's long enough to be satisfying but it's not nearly as long as the number of episodes would
indicate. I think there's something like 72 episodes in there but each one was
you know, some more short as three minutes and I think the longest was maybe 20 or 25 minutes.
So it's not a long listen so if you haven't listened to it and you like what we say about it,
then you get plenty of time.
Yeah, so this was something this author has done differently for most of the guys on audio books
as I try to keep the cat off the keyboard.
Yeah, when he does his episodes are actually a chapter most of your
audio books and I don't know how about things like all the pay service, what are how they go,
but you know, you download an episode and they'll say, you know, they may either say what
say which file it is or you know, by file them or by where it's third file or tenth file or whatever
but then they'll say, well, this is the fifth podcast and it's chapter eight and it'll be chapter
nine, chapter 10 in that in that podcast. So this is I'm not sure I don't I think I may prefer
it this way that each each podcast each separate recording is a chapter.
And see, I found them almost jarringly short as soon as I got into listening to something,
there was the theme music again.
Yeah, that got a little annoying I thought, you know, maybe you're going to do it that way just
not not do the theme music every time, but you're going to have theme music that's hard to get
around. I agree with both of you guys on that. I do like the fact that one episode equals one
chapter because it's a lot easier to find your place and it also made it easier to delete episodes
after I had listened to them because sometimes I this one had such a short closing. I wasn't always
able to delete it as it was ending. So I had to get back to it that way, but I agree with x 1101
as well and that some of them were I felt too short and I wish they were a little bit longer,
just the fact that they're serialized on my mv3 player kind of made up for that.
The one thing in regards to that that I had a problem with is if you're going to have a pro
lug and this is just a pro tip for everybody else who wants to do this, number like a hacker,
make thick zero because the whole time I was I was trying to remember what file I was listening to
I'm on chapter, you know, 14 but is that a file 15 or is it file 13 and it was just you think I
would be able to figure that out that it kept throwing me for a loop. So make your pro lug zero
and then everything will work out. Oh yeah, that is true. They were one number off. You're right.
I do remember that now. As far as the story itself goes, I liked this one. I liked it a lot.
I wouldn't say I loved it, but I did like it now and maybe I suffer from having heard the
original podcast episodes before this came out and they while they were less, you know,
storyline and less polished. There was a lot more story there, a lot more characters
and it didn't dwell. It didn't feel like it dwelled so long on the whole Dr. Loeb incident and
and Edwin being captured and everything like that. So I don't know, maybe I just liked
the original podcast episodes better or maybe it tainted my logic somehow, but I still did
like it. I really did enjoy it. See, I may have got the wrong one. I'm pretty sure I grabbed
mine off a potty of books. That's where mine was as well, but in the intros to all of them,
the ones I was to, it's specifically said, how to succeed in evil, the novel. Right, right. They
were both on potty of books, but there are two versions on potty of books and you know, I tried
saying specifically to watch out for the other one and to grab this one if you were going to,
you know, try to fall along with the book club this time. So that case, I think I do have the right
one. Sapoke, would you say that if having listened to the novel version and enjoyed it,
it would be worth listening to the other version as well? Oh, yeah, for sure, because there's,
there's like a bunch more characters in there. Some of them I thought were very, very funny and
there's two other books involving Edwin. There's, there's another how to succeed an evil novel,
like a second one and there's also a short story. I think it's called Hostel Takeover that I
are and I might be getting confused with something else, but there was a story with with him and
like a zombie guy who, like a witch doctor who made zombies and that was pretty funny too.
Yeah, in fact, I think that character's actually mentioned in passing in the book. There's a
place where they go through some of his other earlier clients. But what about the last chapter
they mentioned some stuff? I think he mentioned to look for a short story. Was there like a graphic
novel or something too? A short one? I haven't gone to look. I was going to, but it sounds like
on the author's website, there was an additional short story and graphic novel, yeah.
Yep, and there's actually it's right on the website, succeedanevil.com. There is a,
it's like 22 pages of a graphic novel and it just, it doesn't follow, you know, the storyline
of the book, but it just kind of gives you a little taste of what, you know, the Edwin universe
is like and is pretty decent. I have to say that every single one of the characters was very,
you know, engaging. It didn't feel like there were any, well, maybe a few of the very periphery
characters were more like prop characters, but anyone who was involved for any length of time
was amusing and engaging and just really good characters. Yeah, and amusing is a good word. This book
was funny. I mean, I, I left several times throughout this book. Just even as little throwaway
gags were enough to make me chuckle. I appreciated them for what they were.
Well, they were well written and well placed. I mean, they weren't, they were throw away,
but they same time weren't cheap. Maybe is a good way to describe it? Yeah, might be.
I'm not sure when the book was written, but one of the things, I made self-proclaim like super
here dork. I love everything super heroes of red comics since I was a kid. And one of the things
that really got me about this book, I'm not sure when he wrote it, but a lot of what the themes
that he deals with are things that have been brought up fairly recently, even in like some big
movie versions of comic book characters. And I think he deals with a lot of those better than,
than the actual thing does. So the satire, satire is almost more nuanced than the actual thing,
which I found funny in and of itself, but then the comedy on top of that just made it extra funny.
Do you have any examples that you can talk about before the spoilers, or should we save that?
I think we should probably save it, because some of it, I mean, some of it's pretty spoilery.
Okay, yeah, you got me really curious now. Yeah, before we get to that,
Pokey already knows that I've told him I didn't particularly enjoy this book. I mean,
I do think the author has talent, you know, it's better than anything I could come up with. I
don't want, you know, I'd like to see if he did some other things, do some other characters. Perhaps,
you know, I really don't like books or stories without a real protagonist, because, you know,
nobody in this book is actually good. But, you know, I found that to be, I use, of course, the most
fleshed out character, but it was all, you know, it was almost a character of somebody who's,
you know, more interested in preserving the stylish things in life rather than any real
moral value. I mean, he was completely a moral, as long as he could live his upper-crust fantasy
lifestyle. The secretary was an Edna, because the author got confused about chapter 50,
about what her name was. I'll go into that in a second, but, you know, she was just essentially
Higgins in address. And, you know, really, I think some people, the people who are short and
stature are going to, you know, would really be offended by the lawyer, because that sort of,
you know, hedonistic, not caring about consequences and just doing what you want is kind of a typical
stereotype of people like that in media and stories. Let me ask you, you're saying that's a
typical stereotype of dwarfs or of lawyers? I don't understand. Dwarfs, I didn't want to use that word.
I know, I know, I think the word they find politically correct is little people. So I don't,
I don't want to go on and, you know, offend, you know, offend somebody who might be listening.
But I mean, there's been, there's been a few movies like, well, under the rainbow,
portrayed him, which, which was like a farce about the filming of, of Wizard of Oz. And
portraying, you know, everybody like that is drunk and sex crazed and running and just
running around with no governor, you know, just doing, doing whatever they
feels good at the moment. And that's, that's just exactly what this character is. And,
you know, I'm afraid some people out there listening to book might actually get offended.
Well, then I'll apologize if dwarf is not the right word. I don't know any little people,
but I would have thought the word little would be more offensive than, I don't know, I won't,
I won't dwell on it. I didn't mean to offend anybody. There's gotta be a better,
there's gotta be a better term, neither one, but I don't know what to do. I don't see why I shouldn't
just call people people, but that's just me. But no, I was completely unaware of
the reputation of, of little people as being hedonistic in any way. I didn't see them
over here talking about either though. Well, I've come across that. I mean, there's mainly
from that movie, but I do, you know, the press that came out at the time was that, you know,
this is offensive to those people. Of course, that's who was in the movie. It wasn't like they
were faking, you know, taking real actors and using a gift to make a move. I just say real actors.
I won't say no, normal's not right. I've just talked myself into a hole. Sorry. Well,
yeah, people have average height. And they didn't take people average height and give them,
you know, to make them look small in the movie. They actually had, you know, actors
of small stature in the movie. So I guess if they were in the movie, perhaps they weren't offended
by that stereotype. But wouldn't that say more toward the stereotype of actors and of the acting
community than of that group of people? Well, perhaps that's right too. Because I'm with
poking that I've never heard that stereotype for that group, that subgroup of people so much as,
you know, when you're saying that it's actors, regardless what else about their actors there are,
that's kind of the stereotype that I can think of is that actors are more fall into that role or that
stereotype. I welcome anybody to, you know, respond in the comments or come on the next show and
tell me what an idiot I am. I think, and I'm just going to go out on a limb here and take a guess,
I think that Patrick McLean in this novel used, you know, made to offer so short just as a
comment contrast to how big his ego and his appetites are. Well, it also is a contrast to physical
contrast to Edwin. Yes, yes, that's to of course. But like I said, did you guys notice, unless I got
the earlier unfinished copy or not unfinished, but perhaps less well edited copy of the of the
novel, but about starting in chapter 50 for two or three chapters, he would essentially, he would
read two lines that essentially were the, meant the same thing twice. And I thought for a while,
he was just doing it for emphasis and, and then I finally realized that he had to be editing and
stopping at it and starting over and, you know, going back one line too many when he restarted. So
he would reread it a different way. It wouldn't be verbatim, but he would say two sentences back to
back that essentially described the same thing. And also the, the secretary and I'm probably going to
get her name, name wrong. I really just finished a novel. Yeah, Agnes, but he called her Edith a few
times in that period too. I don't recall him having her name wrong, but I, I did notice the, the
double sentences. I got, but I think there were maybe, maybe a dozen of them throughout the second
half of the book. Yeah, I noticed that too. There were a couple of, of technical glitches.
The repeated sentences, which I believe are just from editing, there was also a point where two or
three chapters in a row, his mic seemed to be overmodulated and, and just sounded different. Sounded
like overmodulation and the rest of the book wasn't like that. And I didn't notice him getting
her name wrong, but I could have swore at one point he called her Edna. So now I, you make me wonder.
Maybe I just didn't pick up on that, but her name was Agnes all the way through.
Not me. And I don't, I don't really think it takes, takes away from the enjoyment of the novel or
anything, just, just pointing that out. Oh, I agreed. A couple of double sentences here and there
did not detract from my enjoyment of the, of the story at all. Same here. I, I noticed them. I
didn't mind them. I thought there was just a problem with my player. I didn't even think that it
could have been the actual audiobook file. Well, the first time I listened to it, I thought that too,
but I've actually listened to it twice once, right after the last audiobook club, and then once
in the last like four days, because I wanted it fresh in my mind. And it happened in the same places
both times. And so I figured it was very unlikely that it was, you know, a glitch in the theater my
player. That's funny that the both of you thought it could have been your player. I guess I've just
listened to a whole lot more audiobooks. And either you guys, because I would say more than half
of the audiobooks that I've ever listened to will have doubled up sentences here and there,
where it's just an editing thing. Well, like I said, I was being facetious. And also, for some
reason, well, my disorganization, I downloaded on my player, of course, the day before I flew off to
KPO Live. And so I listened to about the first half of the book on the flight down. And I was at,
when I talked to Poké, I'd listened to that, and I hadn't really got back to listening to the other
well, well, I'll go back first. For some reason, I didn't, I didn't get the first 20 chapters copied.
I don't know how I missed that. So I came in with, yeah, I'll take care of that Poké. I came in with
Edward and the Pigstuy. And some, you know, some my criticism that the characters and all that,
the book made sense to me from from that point. So I felt like, you know, for a couple chapters,
I knew who all the characters were missing the first 20. And then I, let me go take care of that
TV, but it, yeah, thanks for doing 50. Sorry about that. I just don't want us to get hit with
like a takedown notice or something, because there's a lot of audio bleeding through there.
Okay, let me know if I need to turn down more, because he didn't really like my selection of movies.
Not a lot of Westerns on Netflix. I was disappointed, but that's neither here or there.
But like I said, you know, I started in worries in the Pigstuy. And you know, I knew everything I
need to know about any of the characters within the next couple chapters. So I don't know if
that's bad, that's bad or good. And then listen, but, you know, with what I'd listen to on the
flight out, I would, you know, I would, I was going to say on the show that it was at least it
was a good thing, at least where I was, I couldn't reach a firearm and shoot myself because I had to
listen to, but it did. The story did kind of grow on me by the time I listened through the end and
then went back and loaded the other 20 chapters on my player. I mean, I said, I probably would
grab one of those other stories and listen, listen to it just because I'm kind of interested in
that universe now, but I think I might have been bitter off not to listen to it at all. I'd been
happier. Geez, I'm sorry to hear that. And Taj, what did you think? I don't think we got your
overall opinion of the book yet. I, I freaking love the book. But like I said, it's pretty much
playing to me as a person and my interests because I'm a huge superhero nut. And I think part of
what it makes it so interesting to me is you can tell, I mean, it's not even very well veiled. If
you know anything about superheroes, you don't have to be that versed in it that all of these
characters are pastiches of like other like well-known characters and kind of seeing him take that
as a framework and kind of build off of it and and play with it a little bit and make twists on it
and and kind of lead it in a place that you don't necessarily expect or like 5150 was talking about.
There is no protagonist. The protagonist is the antagonist and how that's completely opposite
of superhero comics. Most of the time your your big hero in the cape shows up and that's who you
follow and you root for them because they're the good guy. And in this one, you're you find yourself
subtly rooting for the bad guy and because a lot of the decisions he makes while they are bad
decisions, you can relate to why he's doing it. And I think maybe because 50 you didn't hear that
beginning it. I think at the very beginning without spoiling it, there's the one event that kind
of defines his course in life. I think is very important of understanding that character.
Well, if it was at the beginning, go ahead. What was that event?
The fact that he has a thing against superheroes is that they he watched them cause a mass
amount of destruction and things didn't really get solved. It was just even though the problem
that they were fighting was solved that it caused so many more problems and he almost focuses on
the collateral damage more than the actual purpose of what superheroes doing, which I think is
that's one of those themes that I think has popped up recently that this handles really well.
It doesn't slam you over the head with it and say, okay, this is what it is, but it's addressing
it in a way that that makes sense. To the point about there not being a real hero, I guess I've
just enjoyed enough stories that are all about the anti-hero. I didn't really, I mean, I realized
there's no night and shining armor hero, but you can definitely see who the protagonist of the story,
even if they're not really the protagonist in the, you know, typical sense was and really enjoy
rooting for the bad guy occasionally. Yeah, I'm not the person that like has a problem with that
most of the time. I love a good villain story. I think villains are much more fascinated than heroes
because usually you go in with a biased against them and then when you see the reasoning,
it's kind of interesting. You're like, well, you know, things in my life hadn't gone so well,
maybe I could see making those decisions and I think that that's, in a lot of times,
that's a much more interesting story than a hero that just does it because that's the way they're
raised or, you know, for whatever reason that's the beliefs they have to see somebody's beliefs
develop contrary to what is societally normal. I think a lot of times is much better.
And I'm not against that. A hero like the last book, which I also read, I mean, the heroes were
were people who for money took things that didn't belong to them and gave them to
somebody else. I mean, that's at least the way they started out, you know, on the
I think everybody likes that sort of, you know, they sort of anti-hero forced into being the
into the hero role, you know, and in that book you had a society where wells run by the,
run by the nobles and they, they, of course, were corrupt as they would have been in the,
in the time and in our history, wouldn't we actually had, you know, funeral rule and nobles
to make having the power of life and death over people and then you had the, the little people,
the great majority brushed aside just forced to do whatever they had to do to survive. So, but,
you know, I liked the last book and, you know, somebody could make the same argument, well,
where, where, where's your hero there? Because the, for the most part, the nobles or jerks and the,
you know, the thieves or thieves. Let's not forget that one of those thieves was also an assassin.
Well, exactly. They point out, you know, occasionally somebody, you know, they'd be paid to kill people
and they, you know, they didn't have any qualms over who it was.
Well, and I think there's a difference between characters who begin evil and progressively move
towards that more acceptable path, that heroic path, kind of that redemption story everybody likes.
This is a story where the guy is the guy and he's that all the way to the end. I mean, his,
his last big plan in this book is totally him, like, and it's not societally acceptable. It is,
his reasoning down to its ultimate conclusion. And to me, that's interesting.
I mean, everybody loves Hans Olo. I mean, he's more than likely a murderer. We know he's a thief,
you know, but he's, he's that rogue we like him because he eventually becomes a hero.
I don't think anybody becomes a hero in this book.
Well, you know, because he shot first.
Exactly. That's a whole internet meme. You know, he didn't now draw, he didn't now draw
grito. He just shot him on the table, which is awesome. Oh, yeah, everybody thought it was great.
It's it's kind of like that on they did it twice. The scene and the first Indiana Jones movie where
you had the guy with the two swords and, you know, that he'd been fist fighting all these guys.
The guy came out with the two swords and waving around his head and he just said all the hell with
the two guys pistol shot him. Now, one thing I found about Edwin that I could relate to is
his appreciation for craftsmanship and for
menswear, women's work too. For people's work, you know, like his suits that fit him,
that he loved so much. He appreciated that because of the work that the man put into making
the suits, the art that he collected, the knowledge that he collected. Those were all things that
that, you know, he appreciated what men had done. Women too, I'm sure, but I don't think there
was any examples of that in the book. And I can relate to that. I really can relate to
appreciating the the craft of a craftsman or craftswoman. Right, but he, you know, he did that,
but then he afforded himself those luxuries by supporting people who did evil things.
That's kind of strange in the book because it went back, went back and read the first 20 chapters.
He was like, oh, we, you know, we just had a guy, you know, went down, took all our money with him.
So he's about, well, I don't broke, would be the right word, but he's definitely in a position
where he's not going to be able to maintain the lifestyle that, that he, that he, as we come
accustomed to without, you know, without some other great supervillain to, to be an agent for.
And we see how, you know, how that kind of goes tragically wrong for him. So at the, you know,
at the end of the book, he's got to be worse off financially than he even was in the beginning.
Yeah, kind of talking about what Poke was saying about him and enjoying like, you know,
hard work and like the craftsmanship of things. And I think that makes sense for his character
because he sees people with powers as they just, they don't have to try. Like they just do what they
do because they can. There's no effort in it. It's just, it's not work. There's no, I don't even know
almost like no, no satisfaction in what they do. Like they're not doing it the same reason that,
you know, hackers take things apart and put them back together. There's a satisfaction in that
for superheroes, they just do it because they can. For these people, for the normals that make
things, there's an art to that and a craftsmanship and they're suffering and all the stuff that
goes into it. And that's why he enjoys it so much to where even though we know from seeing from
the other characters with powers point of view that it's not all roses for them, but in his
world view, it is that it's just they were born with this. So it's not hard for them to do extraordinary
things, but it's interesting when humans can do extraordinary things. Yeah, I wouldn't say the
values hard work. He value skill. I mean, he wouldn't value a guy out there for shovel building roads
at all. Right. Yeah, that's a good clarification. Todd, I got a question for you since you've got
the background with superheroes. Is the name Excelsior and him yelling his name out? Is that
referential to anything that you're aware of? That is a reference to Stanley. If you don't know
who Stanley is, he's kind of the grandfather of Marvel Comics. Most of the big Marvel comic
characters that were invented like in the 60s time frame, he was the guy behind it. He was behind
Spider-Man, the X-Men, the incredible Hulk. Basically, all the big Marvel characters that he was their
father in one way or another. You can argue some people that he took some people's ideas to do what
he did. If you watch any Marvel movie, they always have the awkward shot where they're focusing on
an old guy for a little too long and there's usually some joke. That's Stanley. They put them in
every movie just because of how important he is, but one of his catchphrases is Excelsior. He always
says it and he usually yells it and because he's a little old man, everybody entertains him,
but I'm assuming without knowing that that is the reference that he's kind of referencing
just him and however the top he is. Thank you. Corey Docturo often signs off his podcasts by
yelling Excelsior as well. I'm pretty sure he's been doing that since before this book was out,
so I didn't think it was in reference to this, so I wouldn't have doubted it.
Yeah, back in the day before comic books became what they are now. Marvel would have this section
called the bull pin, which was kind of like where people wrote in and stuff, and that's how Stanley
would always sign it. He'd always call everybody true believers. That was a big thing,
and then he'd always sign off everything Excelsior, so that's where that name comes from.
Okay, yeah, I'm familiar with Stanley and I would recognize him by his face and I recognize him
in the movies, but I didn't know any of that other stuff about him, so thank you very much for
that. That really cleared things up. Right, I wouldn't have known that, though. Of course,
the Excelsior character himself is obviously based on Superman.
Well, his powers were as far as his mental capacity and moral compass goes. He was
as far as I can tell, pretty original. Well, I agree with you there because nobody,
well, nobody's writing a comic book is going to create a character is sort of low brow. I mean,
they all have high moral character and they're always outsmarting the villains somehow because
if they just use their power and the villains and the villains gone, that's not very exciting.
You got to have somebody who has to figure out a unique way to use their power. Now, I'm surprised
in this universe, there's there's no normal human superheroes like Batman or the green
arrow or et cetera. I don't know. Both of those people did have the superpower of giant stacks
of money. Well, there were the completely normal villains who thought they were super powered,
but you know, I think we're getting dangerously close to getting into spoilers.
You guys want to move up to the review section and get into those?
Sure. Let's do it. I'm for it.
Oh, thank goodness because I'm so thirsty. It's real hot here, so I haven't opened my beer yet
because I would have been drinking it the whole time, so I'll go first because I need to sit.
Oh, never mind someone else would go first because apparently my push and hold to talk isn't working.
Who else has got one that like to talk about?
I'm drinking water because it's been hot. It's not hot today, but it's been very hot here,
and I'm kind of on a health kick. I end up drinking like three gallons of water a day. So
great big Nalgene bottle, 32 ounces of ice water, delicious and refreshing.
Got to respect the Nalgene bottle worth full of water. That's usually what I'm rocking.
You know, I was just about to say the same something similar anyway. I love a big bottle of water,
and Nalgene is high end to my friend. I may have appropriated this one for my sister who lives here.
She's got three of them. I just kind of took one at a boy. I will never understand the logic of
paying for water. No, no, Nalgene is a brand of bottle. They're 10 bucks a piece roughly,
but they're empty. They don't come with water in them. Okay, I'll amend it to I will never understand
the logic of paying $10 for a bottle to carry your water in.
You know, they say that it takes one really tragic data loss to teach you to back up.
It's kind of similar with water. It only takes being really thirsty one time and having
a bottle bust open out on the trail for you to go, you know what? Maybe I should carry my water
in something a little tougher. I can see that if you're out walking around the trail. I assume
none of us are currently on a trail. I got mine when I graduated from college. They gave us
these 32 ounce Nalgene bottles. They're huge. And I graduated in 2004 and I have the same bottle.
And I know it has been run over by a truck at least once. It's been shot at.
It's been through a lot of stuff, but it's still takes. I literally carry it every day.
So if it did cost $10, it was well worth the money. Oh, yeah. And it's 50. Once you use one on the trail,
you really just kind of take it with you everywhere. It doesn't matter where you go after that.
I just find it. I mean, 32 ounce bottle. It's a good size. It's convenient. And it means I don't
have to get up quite so often to fill it up. But even with the 32 ounce bottle, I probably drink five
or six of them a day. Yeah, if it wasn't for that bottle, I probably would not drink the amount
of water that I should. But I mean, I'm like you, I probably drink at least four or five of them a
day, which is over the recommended value. But I don't have any health problems with dehydration.
So that's good. And I'm pretty active and work out a lot. So I mean, it's good for me to stay
hydrated. Do you guys dig the wide mouth Nalgene's or the little narrow ones? Mine's a wide mouth,
but it has this cap. I have had to buy caps for them. Yeah, it's got that in it. So it's pretty cool.
Mine's like just a plain just as a regular cap. It doesn't make any kind of insert in it. Just
just careful. Yeah. Okay. My wife's got the one with the little small like regular water bottle
size cap on it. But I think I'd want the wide mouth one just to get ice cubes in it and to clean
it out and stuff. But I don't have a Nalgene. I'm kind of, I'm kind of preferential to bike bottles
myself just because I can throw them in a, you know, water bottle cage or throw a string around them
and clip them to my belt or something like that. And I like them to use them one handed. But,
you know, I, they're not as good out on the trail. That's for sure.
Oh, I definitely would need the wide mouth one because the first thing I do every morning is
fill mine all the way up with ice. All right. Now that I can get my bike to stay open for a second,
I'm going to drink a Sam Adams summer ale. And this one's quite nice. I saved this one
for the show tonight. I'm, I drank the other five already. This is my last one. But these are
quite nice. I don't usually like a beer. So light is these. Like you can actually, I can see my hand
on the other side of the glass. Like usually I can't see a light bulb on the other side of the glass.
So this is real light for me. But yeah, but it's good. It's, it's, um,
boy, how do I describe this one? It's real light and flavor. It's, it's more, uh, beer like,
I guess than anything else I usually drink. Usually I tend to, you know,
more towards the ails and the lagers and the darker stuff. This one's more like a pilsner.
It's got, um, a little bit of lemon flavor to it. And that's even advertised in the box. It's
not as lemony as I was fearing it would be. And, um, got a lot of bubbles in it. It, you know,
uh, the bubbles keep going the whole time. But boy, it is, it's just nice and refreshing and,
and great on a hot day. Uh, I bought a six pack of these after being unhappy with, um, a darker
beer that I usually like quite a bit. But in the heat, it's just, there's definitely a difference
to darker beers. Don't go over as well. And it's been hot here. So, uh, yeah, say Madame
Summaryl definitely go get you some of your hot and thirsty. Is that, um, fairly hoppy or not?
No, no, it's not real hoppy at all. I think, in fact, they, they may have just, uh,
you know, opened the bucket of hops and kind of blew a fan over the top of it towards the,
the kettle because I don't, it really don't taste much in here at all.
There's a little maybe on the front end, but the, uh, the sweet lemon washes it away so quick
that you don't even notice it being there. And at the, the finish is kind of more, um,
um, maybe even a little more yeasty than hoppy. It's quite nice. Taj, what are you drinking?
I have a big tall glass of iced tea that I made to go along with dinner this evening.
Ooh, would you make that from scratch? Yeah, we have a, um, a local coffee shop kind of chain
around town that, um, they sell loose leaf tea and they've got a pretty good black tea blend.
And so I just, uh, brew some of that and then, uh, kind of make about the tea bowl and probably
about two or three cups of water and just let it really steep and then use that kind of like a
concentrate and dilute it with water. Oh, cool. Okay, so you add like cold water to it after.
Oh, that's neat. I think I'd like to get into drinking tea. I've just never been much of a tea
drinker. I think I said it last time. Yeah, um, I think you did too. But, uh, like, Taj, I grew up on,
you know, iced tea with a little bit of mint in it. Uh, that's, that's just pure summer right there.
Right on. Yeah, being very, very close or if not in the south. Yeah, tea is a staple drink, uh,
most of the time. I don't make it very often at home. We usually do water, uh, but we drink a lot
of lemonade here, um, which is another southern thing. Um, but I just felt like doing some
difference. I made some tea tonight. Uh, drink your sweet or not. I am an unsweeted person.
I, if I do put any, because most, most sweet tea is just ungodly sweet. Like, I can't deal with that.
It's a little bit of tea with your sugar. Right. And that's just not where I'm at. So usually I get
unsweeted. And if the tea is really good, then I just drink it straight up, maybe put a little
lemon in it because lemon makes everything better. Um, if it's not as good, I'll put maybe some,
some a little sweetener in it, but nowhere near what a sweet tea would be. Yeah, I can drink
some iced teas if they're not too sweet. And I can drink some hot teas if they're sweet enough. So
I probably fall right in the middle there. Yeah, I think that it's interesting when point out that
we're Edwin here. He would tell you what, uh, horrible, uh, um,
Philistines you people were for drinking iced tea. Right on. Yeah, I think he did just that.
What are you drinking 50? Well, I wasn't going to come on tonight. So actually,
I'm out of beer this evening. So I'm sipping on a little Jim Beam ride. Oh, that sounds delicious.
I've not had Jim Beams ride. Sounds delicious. Well, if you like, if you like, I mean, it's an
acquired taste. I mean, if you're somebody that, you know, bourbons a little much for, you know,
because it kind of goes, uh, well, actually, it's directly related to flavors,
directly related to the amount of, uh, what they call the, uh, the minor spirits rye and, uh,
shoot, maybe we've had too much, uh, uh, rye and barley spirits as opposed, as opposed to, uh,
cornlick, uh, you know, cause, uh, you know, pure, pure cornlick or, you know,
you know, it's less flavor, but it's easier to get down for most people. So when you,
when you tend to go towards the, uh, you know, the whiskeys with more flavor and the
America'd be rye and of course in Europe, it would be Irish whiskey and then on the scotch.
Then you have, you know, more of the heavier barley flavor in those, uh, so I said it,
you know, if you enjoy the taste of whiskey, I would say try a little rye. If you don't real,
you know, if you need to mix your whiskey with cola or something, then that's probably not for you.
Now, what, um, cause I've never had rye, what, what is the proof of what you're drinking there?
Well, I think it's, it's 80 proof, but the, uh, the definition of rye whiskey is 50 percent of the
spirit, uh, spirits have to come from rye. The definition of bourbon is 50 percent of the spirits
have to come from corn and, well, 51 percent, in either case, sorry, not 50, 51 percent has to be
corn and it has to be made in Kentucky. That's why, uh, uh, Jack Daniels is not bourbon, it's made in
Tennessee. Thank you very much. I thought it had to be in bourbon county, but anywhere in Kentucky
and it can be called bourbon, I was unaware of that. Yeah, um, I live in, well, I live right across
the river from Louisville, Kentucky, which is like the bourbon mecca, I guess, if you want to call it
that, um, and my mother works for one of the, the largest, uh, alcohol producing companies in the
country, uh, and it, it's, it's actually ridiculous. There's, there's a legal amount of time that
it has to reside in Kentucky. And so since we're right on the, the border between Kentucky and
Indiana, what they will do is they will make it in Kentucky and it has to sit in the barrel in
Kentucky for a certain amount of time. I'm not exactly sure what that amount of time is, but then
they will literally ship those barrels to a warehouse in Indiana to finish, um, but they, they,
house them in Kentucky long enough for it to be labeled as a bourbon, because that is part of
the definition. That's really neat. I'm also, uh, I'm a bourbon, uh, drinker myself. And, uh, a lot of
the bourbons, at least some, that I've, I've had do, do have a fairly high rye content, not enough
to be called rye, obviously. And I mean, some of the, the less expensive ones, the rye is really
sharp, but some of the better ones, the rye is still very smooth and very nice.
So being that it's made by Jim Beam, is it very sour, because I drank my fair share
Jim Beam, and it's pretty sour. I've never noticed, uh, Jim Beam to be overly sour. Oh, no, I wouldn't
say it is. Huh, compared to other bourbons and, and American whiskeys, I thought it was quite sour.
But then again, I could be misremembering. I gave up Jim Beam. Oh, I don't know, 15
this years ago now. I had, uh, had, had about with him that I won and I figured I should never
press my luck again. But, uh, no, that sounds good. 50, uh, did you have anything else to say about
it? Or, um, what was that that? No, I'm, that's, I just, you know, I mean, I'm pretty much usually a
beer drinker thought, you know, I like everything. And, uh, so, uh, you know, I get, I, uh, always keep
a bottle around, I run out of beer. So that's, or I'm in the mood for it. So, uh, that's about all I
had as far as the beverage. Cool. Thank you very much for that. I'm gonna have to add that to my
list and go for a cup of bottle at some point. Yeah, if I see it in a small bottle, I'm gonna definitely
try it. And I, I like Scotch, but man, good, good Scotch, uh, you gotta, you gotta be celebrating
something. Yeah, buddy of mine's getting married in the fall and I think he's buying a bottle of 18
year. You can always compromise and just do like a Canadian blended whiskey. I've never been that
much of a fan of Canadians. I don't, I don't know why, uh, you know, because that, that's where,
because Canadian whiskeys can go all over the map, you know, from pure corn liquor to a rye to, to,
to, to, you know, like a good, like a good Scotch. Oh, man, try Seagram 7 in 7 out, but use about
twice as much Seagrams as you think you should use. And it is one of the smoothest, nicest,
most pleasant drinks on earth. See, Seagrams never agreed with me at all. I always like Canadian
missed better. I was always a crown fan. Well, crowns there, I, I, I do have a friend, uh, uh,
the, the drinks crown. He used to drink, at least he's coming along a little, he used to mix crown
with Pepsi. That's like, why, why would you waste it like that? But at least now he's, I'm sorry.
So the only thing I mix is if I buy, you know, really low shelf bourbon, I like that with some
ginger ale as a, what I'm not, you know, drinking it was on the rocks, but Pepsi, that sounds like
it would be way way too sweet. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I mean, I like bourbon and coke or,
you know, even, even Ryan Coke, but crown and Pepsi, there ought to be a law. But recently,
I think his job's starting to get to him some more because I, I've been seeing him drink it more
on the rocks with a little, little water, maybe I think, but, uh, you know, he's, he's leaving the
coli out of it. I think we're in danger of becoming the audio bourbon club. No objections there.
Yeah, well, it's, uh, that'll be Wednesday nights, I guess. See, this is going to be the
show Ken Fallon's really mad that he missed. You know, who drinks a lot of booze that topper?
I really like that guy. Yeah. Yeah. See, you know, I guess I should like the book toppers
essentially me, except I'm way too tall. Well, this conversation is, uh, anything on par, you're
also too nice. Yeah, he was a real dink, wasn't he? He could be. He was over the top and all the
right ways. Yeah, he was, he was definitely, like, he was comic relief when you needed it and
just comedy when you didn't need any relief. He was just funny all the way through. I'm not sure
he said anything serious in the old book. Well, there's a couple times that once, you know, thought,
you know, picked up sort of a kernel of an idea from something he said that he wouldn't have thought of
on his own. But I think that kind of goes with the infinite monkey, Sterey. I think you nailed it.
Well, and let's be honest, a lot of a vast majority of Edwin's plans backfire in his face,
and if he's getting his ideas from topper, maybe that's why they're backfiring.
Also true. But also backfiring because he's relying on dumb people to do smart things.
And dumb as compared to him, which is, well, everyone. Yeah. And he's relying on not just to do
smart things, but to do anything that he's told them to do. And nobody seems capable of, of just
obeying his orders and being the automatons that he wants. I think Edwin's major problem is that
he fails to realize that everyone has desires and that those desires can change at any point.
Well, you know, that was kind of a break for me. The whole
chromagletron or whatever, him ever thinking he could take a building down where it would fall
straight down. I mean, it's not just destroying the structure of the building. You have to do it
in such a way that the building falls in upon itself. And so it even, you know, topper
had learned sort of to, you know, drag him around by the hand or whatever, tell him what to do.
Okay, fine. So, you know, to make a building fall right, you've got to take out several,
several of those structure supports at the same time. So to say the same argument against the
superheroes, well, you can't be everywhere at once. So you'd have to take out one support at a
time. And even if the chromagletron can, you know, can survive the building eventually falling
on top of him, because he's going to be in there when he's knocking the, knocking the pins out
from of the building, topper is going to be in there as well, because he, you know, the,
chromagletron is not, chromagletron is not smart enough to know what to hit. And for that matter,
you know, I don't, without hiring somebody like the contractor they had, you know, or the
contractors in the book, how, how would topper and Ed would know what supports to, to take out
from under a building. So, you know, that's, that's a theme in the book that, you know,
some, a lot of these super powered villains, you know, Ed would tell him, look, you could make
more money as an insurance agent, you know, for over 50 years, and you can for, you could for
Robin Banks, because, you know, yeah, you can do this one thing real great, but that, you know,
you're not invulnerable to bullets, they'll eventually get you. Yeah, so he pointed that out so
well to so many of the, so many of the other super villains who thought that they had a great idea
to get power and get money, but he couldn't, you know, he couldn't see his own plan for, for you,
using the guy to, was it Barry, was actually his real name, but to, but to use him to actually
to bring down buildings is no way that was going to work, because if he brought down the building
was going to fall into the three buildings next to it, or what actually happened in the book,
he turned the guy loose and he just started knocking down all the new buildings next to the old
building. Well, I mean, going back to what we were talking about earlier, Excelsior is obviously
Superman, Edwin is Lex Luthor, but Lex Luthor with a motivation, other than I'm just evil.
And I think one of the things that just keeps Biden Edwin in his rear end is he is not,
he is intelligent, he's extremely intelligent, probably more intelligent than most people,
but he's not as intelligent as he thinks he is, and usually the things that throw him off are the
things that would be things he considers beneath him, and those are the things that keep popping
up and biting him in the rear end. He's not taking all those variables into account, because I think
he thinks that he's smarter than that, and he, like we were saying before, it's those motivations
that other people have that he's not taking into account, they're not playing by his, his structure
that he wants to lay down. Yeah, and as far as the building not falling straight down, I mean,
that was obvious, but I figured that was just artistic license, just like superheroes flying around.
Well, I think part of his problem comes from trying not so successfully to dance around
the, but I don't break any laws thing, to just giving people plans. I mean, if he had just
declared himself a supervillain, hold these people in as henchmen and told them what to do,
it might have ended differently, but because he was simply trying to advise them and take a cut,
you know, he loses the authority to make people do the things that he thinks he has right.
Yeah, that might be true, but I honestly think that he didn't break any laws because that was
maybe like the extent of his moral code, just that there should be rules and that they should
be obeyed. You know, he had a lot of self-imposed rules, but I think as somebody said earlier,
he was without morals, he wasn't immoral, he was amoral, and he had all those rules in place
to dictate his own behavior, and he obeyed his own rules to the letter. And I think he believed
that the law was, you know, just another set of rules that should be obeyed and by him as well
as everybody else. Well, I agree, because the thing that Roy Outraged him was that the superheroes could,
you know, in pursuit of capturing the supervillains could create untold havoc, and then nobody
would be responsible for it. Well, and he has, like we're saying, he has that moral code, which is
a very, once again, going to another example, like Batman, Batman could be way more effective,
like insanely effective if he didn't have his moral code. If he doesn't kill anybody,
the Joker is going to keep coming back, right? If he could just take out the Joker, which he has had
the ability to do multiple times, he would basically put himself out of work, but he's holding
himself back in a artificial way, and I think Edwin's doing the same thing. He's put that there,
because he actually does believe that, like, I actually think that the law applies to him,
and he thinks it applies to him, which is why he never crosses that line, but it is artificially
him holding himself back. All right, I, you know, and Batman has to be that way so that,
you know, he actually has a problem to solve. I mean, it's like the old joke about MacGyver,
if MacGyver just carry a gun, every one of those shows would be done in the first 10 minutes.
Well, I mean, we know what happens when Batman doesn't have a moral compass. It's called the Punisher.
They just make up new villains. I mean, that's how they get around that.
I'm gonna say if Batman doesn't have that moral compass, I mean, he's no longer really a hero,
but he's also not as interesting, because he knows that, I mean, I've seen some of the comics where
he knows that line is there, and he wants to cross it, but doesn't because he's afraid he'll never
stop. He's afraid he'll be the Punisher. I mean, that's why, and I'd stay in DC, it's not like I don't
like the Marvel characters, but I mean, you know, that's why I've always thought Batman to be the
more interesting between him and Superman, you know, because, you know, he's got to work these
things out. He doesn't start out with the powers of a god, essentially. He's got some depth.
You know, and of course, maybe it might be harder to write for somebody like, you know, Superman or
Green Lantern who essentially do have pretty, pretty much powers of a god on Earth or Thor, I guess,
on the other end. You know, how do I make a villain strong enough that they can't overcome him in
two minutes? You might be right about that because I find it's, it's very difficult. If I'm trying
to create something, I find it very, very difficult to try to create things without rules before I
start. I've got to have boundaries or else, you're not creating a thing, you're trying not to
create everything. Not that I've ever created much, but you know, if I try to write a short story or
it's some such thing, it rules kind of help in that respect. And that's what Batman has that Superman
doesn't. He's got those boundaries. And when I was reading this book, the one thing that kept popping
into my head every time Excelsior had like a part in this in the book where we were hearing his
version of things is I would much rather read an Excelsior book than a Superman book,
because there's more to work with there. He's, he has, he's a much more flawed character. There's
more things to work with. And even he has a rule set, but his rule set's being dictated. And that's
what Edwin's trying to push him to cross that rule set to kind of, to where Batman doesn't cross
it because he's scared of what he'd become. Edwin wants to push him to that because he wants to
not be the one to commit the crime. So ultimately his, his final thing is justified.
You know, I think it'd be fun to watch the Superman one with, you know, the Christopher Reeves one,
watch that movie back and just pretend you're watching Excelsior and, and imagine what would happen to
him or what would happen to the things around him if, you know, real physics obeyed, not movie physics,
because that's what happened to Excelsior. He tried to save the plane from going down and his hand
went right through it and he broke the plane in half and that kind of thing. You know,
where Superman can carry, you know, in one of the movies that he carried like a whole lakes
ice surface. He froze the surface lake and carried that. And it didn't break or chip away at the
edges or nothing. You know, that kind of thing is, is, is happening all the time in a Superman movie
and it wouldn't work for Excelsior. He would fail. And that's one of the things that like we were
talking about, I feel like this deals with some of the things better than other movies. I don't know
who, I don't want to spoil it if nobody here's seen it. Has everybody seen Man of Steel yet?
I haven't, but go ahead. I haven't either, but I don't think I'm gonna.
Yeah, well, I've got Netflix now, so I will, but yeah, go right ahead.
Okay, so like the big ending of the movie is that basically Superman has to fight somebody with
exactly the same powers as his. And they actually do a pretty good job of keeping it physically real.
And the, the end game of it is, is they basically level metropolis because that's the kind of
damage that having those kind of powers would cause. And the big uproar in kind of the media
and every comic book website was, oh, this isn't a real Superman man movie because Superman wouldn't
have done that because of, you know, his, his morals, he wouldn't have let the city be leveled
and the thousands of people who probably died there and all the damage. And in my mind,
it's kind of like, well, this is probably what would happen. It's not like he can take somebody with
the same powers of him and be like, hey, let's go do this over here because I don't want to ruin the
city. He's got a fight where he's got a fight and he's got to do what he's got to do. And so I feel
like this book, because I expected that first scene where he's saving the plane that it would be like,
oh, okay, this is, I caught on really quick that of a Superman. But then when things started
to happen, I was like, oh, this is a much more realistic take on these powers, you know, physics
doesn't stop because they stop for you. And just sort of like playing with that is interesting to
me. Now, he didn't level a city like they did in the movie, but that's pretty, pretty interesting
that the, and even the villains, the dumb stuff they do, they're, there are consequences that make
sense other than knocking down buildings and them going straight now. Yeah, but he pretty much
did level the city in the final battle with Cramogwood on. Yeah, I knew I was getting that wrong.
And you guys are letting me get away with it. I mean that, you know, in the very first thing,
of course, Edwin should, you know, take, take some, you know, he shouldn't be on such a high
horse about that because, you know, the, the original deal where he tried to get,
Command and Tron, I'm going to get it wrong again. To, you know, just, just level, just to take
down a little building for me, took down the five buildings next to it on purpose. So you have to
assume all the people in those buildings died as well. And, you know, and just start leveling
buildings out across the city. And, and Edwin seems to take no moral authority for that. But then,
he, thank you for, for, for spilling it phonetically for me, Pokey in the chat. But,
yeah, it's, you know, maybe the smaller scale. But, you know, we're at the point where we,
you know, where we can tell spoilers. I mean, he, in prisons, at least he thinks he's killing
Excelsior, I think. But, at least Gus thinks Excelsior cannot be killed by anything. So,
it obviously sent himself, the books set the self up for a sequel. But, you know, Edwin essentially
tries to kill Excelsior for doing exactly the same thing he had done himself on a smaller scale.
Right. But then Edwin's brain, whether it's right or wrong, I mean, I think we could sit here and say,
yeah, it's the exact same thing. But then Edwin's brain, his finger wasn't on the trigger.
And the other part, he set up the conditions for it to happen. But, it wasn't his intent that it happened.
And so, I think that is how he tells himself that he's not as culpable as Excelsior is. Which,
yeah, like I said, doesn't make a lot of sense for us sitting here. But I think in his brain,
it doesn't make sense. Well, but him and also the ending with him burying Excelsior,
it seems to me more like he's not so much killing him as he's holding him to account.
For all the things he has and would probably continue to do, he is starting his campaign of,
you know, holding all of these super powered beings to account, which no one else has done.
And I think one of the things that if this book would have followed the cliches of kind of what
everything is, when Edna Edith, whatever her name is, we can't figure out Agnes, Agnes when she
dies. I mean, if you, I mean, you just play that out to the logical conclusion, he turns into a
mustache twirling villain and goes over the edge and throws away his moral code and he's just like
over the top villain now. And he doesn't do that. It definitely enriches him to a point where he's
willing to just like up his game, but he never crosses that line. I don't think you could ever literally,
even though he's like, I am a villain, you know, I don't think he ever crosses past that boundary
that he set up. He's still working within it. And even at the very end, he's still, he sees himself as
just a business person dealing out, you know, this is causing the fact. So to me, it's kind of
that there is a trigger, but it's not exactly what you would expect. If it was a normal comic book
or comic book movie, you would expect him to just go over the top and he doesn't, which kind of
makes his character, I think, a little more interesting. I don't know. I thought he did go over the top.
I don't, I never pictured him as like the mustache twirling villain, but I think he went into
full revenge mode. He does go into revenge mode, but he doesn't do it in a way that would still
break that code. I mean, he still doesn't necessarily break a law. He's doing it all in a way to
where he can fish around those rules and do what he wants to get done. Nobody was about to. I mean,
he had his hand on the button to kill the Cromagladon, and that would have been his action that
killed him. And it said the only reason he didn't kill the Cromagladon is because he thought it
would be more evil if he let him live. Right. And again, that whole end sequence, it could be argued
that Dex Celsier, well, I should say, could be argued is it is argued in the book that Ed
One and his golf game, where he forces Celsier to cheat using his superpowers to win the game,
that leads to Celsier saying, well, I don't have to follow the rules anymore. And so he
ignores the edict that he's not supposed to go after the Cromagladon, and which of course
results in Agnes's death. And, you know, so again, the whole thing comes back comes back around
to Edwin. Yeah, he's definitely earned what happens to him. I mean, he sets up the conditions for
everything that that comes to his doorstep by the end of the book. What about Dr. Loeb? Nobody's
really mentioned Dr. Loeb, and he's just ridiculously funny. See, I find him more annoying than
anything. He was, he was the part of the book that I didn't like. Yeah, the biggest redeeming
quality, I think, of that character was the fact that the voice actor, just having to switch back
and forth and blend the two accents together, that was fun. But the rest of it, I was just like,
can we move on? No, but I have to admit, that takes talent going from the German to the
deep, deep South accent. And, you know, and in the same word, you know, mixing it up, that
because that can't be a direction. It's in the book. I mean, the books, you know, that would be
interesting. This is a novel. So it's written, you know, how do you say that Dr. Loeb, you know,
in this sentence, is sliding from German to deep South. Well, the audio book, at least, was
read by the author. So, you know, the author could vocally create what he was trying to portray.
Yeah. But, you know, it has, I'm sorry, you know, the only way you could do it is an audio book
or a movie. You could, you could not, you could not get that across in print. Yeah, you could. You
could do it with, you know, spelling things a little phonetically. But also, you know, as the narrator,
he said that Dr. Loeb was slipping back and forth between Dr. Loeb and Eugene, and that his
voice was changing. So just with a little bit of, you know, clever spelling, you could do that.
Like I said, even though I'm not a big fan of the book, I am a very big fan of his reading of it,
but, you know, being able to separate himself into so many different characters.
Yeah, he was spot, I mean, there were so many, there's actually a lot of characters in this book,
and they all have their own individual voice. He doesn't use his regular voice for any of them,
really, except for probably Edwin, I guess Edwin would probably be as close to his real voice.
The only thing that I had that was kind of an issue there is it felt like, and it could just be me
listening to it and it being over a pretty long period of time for me. I didn't get to sit down
and kind of mainline this one. I did it over a significant pirate period of time. It's sometimes when
the character would be in like, you know, the beginning of the book and it would be gone for a long
time and come back at the end. I felt like I don't think those voices match, and I don't know if that's
the truth or that's just my brain plane tricks on me. You mean like Gus, who's not in it as much
Yeah, he fluctuates a little bit and then the demolitions guy at the end that he had met earlier,
I believe, those are innocent and matched. Yeah, I don't feel like those accents match that much,
but I could be wrong. I thought Clarence was consistent, and I could be wrong, but I thought he was.
But yeah, there were many different characters. They all did seem to have their own voice,
and you could tell when they were speaking with very few exceptions, he didn't have to say,
you know, like the judge said or Edwin said, you could tell who was speaking just by the voice he did,
and that I really, I'm mystified by that particular talent. That's not one that I possess
unless the voices are drastically different. And I mean, the range of different types of voices
that he did for this book is insane. I mean, you look at Topper and like his voice, which is
real squeaky and real fast and just sort of it, it pains me to think of like how much it hurt to
do that voice. And then he's doing, you know, British accents and he's doing, you know, big,
big booming sounds. I mean, he just, he was all over the place. Women, men, it didn't matter. He was,
it was, they were all there and they were all very distinct. I do want to point out, of course,
I don't know, we don't always get enough people to do the book club. So I hate to commit everybody.
But there are any potty of books, you know, Creative Commons authors out there. We did a few years
ago, the hacker public radio community talk about, you know, because you usually most of Creative
Commons released books are voiced by the author and you got to come, you know, and you got to be
talented in that just to come up with the different voices and make the characters distinct.
So we did put it out there a few years ago, if there's a CCO. I still have it.
Right, who would like to have their book red, that will, you know, we, you know, we will try to come
up with the different voices and HPR is an international community. So if you need somebody with,
you know, a particular nationality, we may, may very well be able to come up with a native language
speaker for, you know, to play a character in your book, like I said, you know, probably the
place to go would be if you're interested in this and an email to admin at hackerpublicradio.org.
No, no, it would be HPR at hackerpublicradio.org if you're just looking for the community.
Well, I think, you know, I think you might want to filter it through, well, be through Ken right now,
but yeah, H, either want to work.
Yeah, I still have, um, Class 2's short story and that's, uh, I, I keep meeting to, to go over it
again because it looks like it needs just subtle, subtle changes to go from, you know, a book to
an audio drama. But that's for another day, I guess. But, um, yeah, uh, let me see. So, so Edwin,
we covered him. He was pretty complex and like I said, I could relate to him in his appreciation
for craftsmanship and especially the one part where he said like one of the greatest tragedies ever
was the, um, the burning of the library, uh, that, uh, Alexander, thank you, the burning of
library Alexandria. And I've always felt that too that so much knowledge was lost there and
that really set humanity back, you know, many centuries. Um, so I could relate to him in that. I
could kind of relate to topper in, in his desires, but you know, normal people keep their desires
in check and don't always voice them. You know what I mean? Did, did you guys find any of the other
characters relatable? Well, if you have the money an attorney makes, then you don't have to keep your,
vices so much in check. Now, I've just offended all the attorneys and that was intentional.
I think it's defense attorneys, at least the defense attorneys. I think Excelsior's relatable.
I really do. Um, he's kind of the, the, the manchild, like he's never gone out on his own and
been able to make his own decisions. There's always the, the parent over him telling him what to do
and go. Oh, Todd, you just cut out. Oh, I said, I said that there's always a parent standing over
him in, in, in the Gus character that's always telling him what to do who's ultimately getting his
stuff from the, the government of some sort. Um, and I think that that's, that's interesting.
He was a character that I wanted more out of because he was, he was easily preyed upon by Edwin
because of some character flaws that, that were interesting. Yeah. I'm almost surprised in Excelsior.
They didn't borrow the thing from, uh, from Hancock because obviously Excelsior, you know,
wants to go out on dates and I thought, uh, I thought it's an interesting facet to his character.
He wants to go out on dates as himself, you know, he, he doesn't want to say, hey, baby, I'm Excelsior
because that's just too boring, uh, forum because every woman, you know, us, you know, wants to go
home with Excelsior and it's, it's no challenge for him. So, you know, he's, he's looking for some
woman who will, you know, who will go with him and, you know, on us, even doing that always seems
to be able to find her bimbos. Uh, you know, so you got to feel sorry for the guy, but what I'm
getting at is you've seen the movie Hancock, you know, and, you know, everything about him is super
and, you know, we, in the movie Hancock, he brings girl home to his trailer and, uh, you know,
since everything about his super, okay, we, we are an adult podcast, you know, when he's
getting to the moment, he has to get off, get off, get off because, you know, he's like a cannon
and, and, uh, puts holes in the roof of his trailer. Uh, that, that would be one thing they should have
brought over for Excelsior. I thought would have been funny. Well, I look at it from, uh, I have a friend
who, um, was, was basically a musical prodigy, um, is growing up. I mean, he's, he's fantastically
talented still is. Um, and it was, it's interesting to see him in, in his life when he goes out and
people introduce him by what he does and not by who he is. And I know that that really seriously
irritates him. Like, to, to him, a lot of people see him as what he does and not what he is. And I
think Excelsior kind of suffers from that same perspective of people, he's sick of people
seeing what he does. Um, he wants people to see who he is. I'll tell you what I found relatable
about Excelsior was not that he always made bad decisions, which he did seem to, um, but that
he didn't always even understand what his options were or how to, um, critically determine
what his options were, what the choices were to be made. And, and I remember feeling like that,
I mean, I still do time to time, but as a young man, uh, you know, it happened to me a lot. Like,
I don't even know what my options are, let alone how to pick them. Right. And they said
they found them as a, as a baby. So, I mean, he's never had to make choices for himself. So that's,
I think that that's kind of, it's interesting because you don't often see a character where that's
the case, where they'd never had to make a decision that was important. Yeah, that, I thought
that's the thing they kind of left hanging because at one point Gus said, you know, I think
it's Gus threatening them with, uh, hey, if you don't keep doing, you know, flying the program and
doing what we're saying, you know, we're, we're gonna let out in public who you really are,
what you really did. And what that was was never put out there. I was almost thinking maybe,
um, it went back to the court trial where Edwin, uh, you know, said in public,
Celsius a child molester and then got sued and, uh, which was foreign in the book, uh, you know,
Edwin wanted to sue Celsius for the damage to his building. And they said, well, you can't file
sued because you can't say Celsius, you got to have his real name. His real name was secret. So,
you know, Edwin went out in public and said, well, Celsius a child molester. And then of course,
got sued by Celsius and established it. Well, you know, he's, if he can sue me and not give his
real name, then apparently I, you know, I should be able to sue him back, uh, under the same circumstances.
So I thought when, you know, some part through the book were, you know, Gus said, well, we'll let
people know who you really are in, unless you fly straight. I thought, well, maybe he actually was
this janitor, uh, child molester that, uh, Edwin accused him of being. See, I got the, the impression
that it was older than that and on a bigger scale. I try to, it's hard to say that because that
being a child molester is like the most terrible thing I can think of. But on a bigger scale,
I mean, I got the impression that he was around and kicking you during like the World War Two type
era. So maybe he did something really like that level of awful. All right. He's supposed to be,
he's supposed to be the same age as Gus, except that he hasn't aged. And we know Gus was a soldier
in World War Two. So yeah, if there could have been a youthful indiscretional for guy says, you know,
look, I can do whatever I want. Nobody can stop me. So you're probably right. He probably did
something really horrible before somebody got a hold of him and said, dude, you know,
we'll, you know, you listen to us. We'll make you a superhero and super popular, but you can't do
this stuff or we will find a way to take you down. See, I got the impression that it was a mistake
that he made something along the lines of killing his parents by accident or something like that.
And they came along and said, listen, we won't tell anybody. We'll make it, we'll make it all go away.
We'll make it better. So I don't think it's something that he actually did or actually should feel guilty
about. It's just something that they didn't explain to him as such. You know, it was a mistake he made
and they're just kind of letting it ride so that they have some control over him. That's the impression
I got. And as far as telling people who you really are, I don't think it meant revealing his secret
identity, which by the way, I thought was ridiculous. I don't see why he needed a secret identity.
I kind of read it as just probably there's a whole file somewhere of incidents like the plane
incident where things went terribly wrong and they just kind of covered it up to show that
just to kind of keep his name clean and to like, you know, if he went off the rails,
they could just be like, hey, look at all this stuff he's done over all these years that was terrible
and look who you're celebrating. Just kind of like mass-scale character assassination.
Well, I mean, look at the guy. It's not like he has a life outside being a self-seer.
You know, he's 70, 80 years old and so he doesn't really have a family who remember,
you know, it's not like bad guys can kidnap his family because, you know, they're all dead
probably in those generations. You know, whoever's left his family with our strangers to him
because he's been kept isolated and it's not like he goes to work with a secret identity
every day. So it's not like somebody can say, do what we want or blow up the daily planet.
So yeah, you know, he's like the most famous person in the world and he's actually nobody.
You know, that might be even a more interesting character to explore than Edwin.
Actually, I think all of those different possibilities all kind of make sense as to things
it could have been. I mean, any of those make sense as a way to keep someone who you physically
can't control but has the who's been basically treated as a man child for his whole life in check.
And that's what's cool about not telling you what it is because it's like you automatically
assume the worst. That's kind of the way of it always. Yeah, it, it, I never understood why people
need things like that explained or why they get annoyed when things like that aren't explained.
And the first example that can come to my head is if anybody ever saw the movie pulp fiction
and the briefcase that was so important in the movie, they never told you it was in it.
They opened the briefcase and it shined on their faces, you know, like it was something special,
but they never told you it was in there and it's not important to know it's in there.
Just like it's not important to know what he did, just that he feels guilty about it and they're
holding over his head. Well, that's since we've compared so much to different comics and stuff
that's with Wolverine's origin story having been vague and mysterious for so long and when they
finally did tell it, it was kind of anti-climactic. Now, this the origin story in the Wolverine movie,
does that have anything to do with the origin story in the comic book? It kind of seemed
hokey to me, but you know, I always thought Wolverine, you know, with the, you know, the technology
in him was created and, you know, in the movie was no, he's he's 250 years old and born that way.
The movie was, it wasn't right, but it wasn't wrong either. Some of the broad strokes were
correct and, you know, he was that old. He was naturally did have the claws, but most of the details
were not what was published in the, they did like a six-part comic run of his origin and they still
did leave it very vague. There was, you know, just a couple years of his adolescence where he,
you know, discovers that he has these healing factor in the claws and then they stop again. So,
you know, it's still like 1840 when they stop. So, there is still like 100 or 150 years of,
we don't know what happened to him. So, they didn't take all the mystery out and then the movie came
in and was just not good. And it seems like it seemed like he has abnesia until about two years
before the first movie. He doesn't remember that he's 200 years old or or anything. It's just when
the government got a hold of him. I mean, his memory seems to start when he escaped from the
government lab. And that's fairly consistent with the comic book universe. Yeah, the movie took
a, just sort of a mediocre story and made it even more mediocre. Yeah, I, I, you know, the,
twit didn't get in the comics. I mean, oh, you know, when I was a kid and I, I guess it's,
it's sort of relevant here. You know, I would get all my comics. I couldn't afford the new ones.
We went to flea markets and there were all these comic sellers. And, you know, you could buy a
comic book and then sell it back for, you know, quarter of the price later. But, and of course,
the covers were ripped off of a lot of them. You knew those ones were supposed to be destroyed.
But you go all through it and you know, it was pretty cheap entertainment because the comic
books, they would be 75 pages, you know, the ones from back in the 50s and 60s and you know,
like that need have the whole story. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you know, it'd be a whole story
in one comic book. It wouldn't be like today that you subscribe. And, you know, you get, you get
10 pages in your graphic novel and you've got, you got to see the one next month to, you know,
to keep up on the story, it's a continuing story going on rather than, you know, a whole,
a whole story. It starts and finishes in the comic book and, you know, you, you would have like
green land, a green lantern story and then you'd have green arrow in the back. And I never,
to green arrow was supposed to be rich because, you know, all the ones I saw, he was like this,
you know, bohemian, you know, hanging out guy, you know, and he didn't, you know, then show him
a spoken dope, but you knew that he did and hanging out with the black canary and all. But,
you know, it, you know, and then, you know, I became more of an adult, you know, it changed like,
I think, in the 80s, maybe in the 70s, but you know, where this, you know, they figured out,
let's serialize these things and you can't just go buy them in the story. You're going to have to
subscribe to the comic and then we'll do, you know, we'll do, we'll, we'll, we'll do, you know,
crossovers with other comics and then, and then know what's going on. You've got to cross over
this other comic and then anytime now that you go, that you go to the, you know, Wikipedia,
to figure out what the heck is going on in comics and it's like, you know, I remember Earth 1 and
Earth 2 and now they've, you know, now you have 30 Earths and there's like, you know, well, Earth
Prime was our Earth where there's no, no superheroes. But, you know, it's the 30 Earths or whatever
and then there was the cataclysm or whatever that destroyed all the Earths and put it back to
1 and rebooted all the stories and it's, it makes my head hurt to look at it.
Well, that's ultimately why, like, you've got the companies doing things that they've done recently,
like you've got Marvel where they came up with the ultimate universe, which was kind of just a
a reboot of the Marvel universe with no backstories so they could kind of start over and that the
idea was, hey, you can jump in here and you don't have to know that old backstory but if you do,
it's an alternate universe so we can play around with it a little bit or like DC a couple of
years ago did the new 52 where they just completely rebooted everything. They were just like,
everything else got thrown out except for I think Batman and Green Lantern's continuity got changed
but it was the same or it is extremely confusing. But I think that's, and when you were talking
about the 80s, there was, I feel like and because I was around when that happened, that was when
the big shift towards the type of storytelling that goes on today, which is more adult. It's not,
you know, back in the the 60s, you're looking at some of those comic books and you're like, really,
this is childish. It kind of grew up and they were telling more adult stories to where you see,
you know, the movies now, like The Dark Knight and you see that and you're like, that is a very
complex adult story that came out of comic books, not that story in particular because it's not
really based off of any one story but just this storytelling has changed immensely and I think
this book is kind of an offshoot of that. Just sort of looking at all those different details that
kind of get woven in and the themes and stuff that have been brought up and just kind of satire
izing it in a way because I think it's funny as this book is at the end of the day that when you get
to the end of the book, you're like, oh, this does have something to say. And what is that?
I'm not quite sure. Like it's one of those things where like you can read into it a bunch of
different things. Until me, it's, you know, that sort of the triumph of the normal over the superhuman
because you see, I mean, comic books are absurd. I mean, you see some of the things that some
of these superheroes can do and you're just like, that's ridiculous. If that really existed,
it would be like, I mean, it's jumping streams, Godzilla, Godzilla is a metaphor for, you know,
the atomic weapon. And sort of a lot of superheroes are that. I mean, they would be the nuclear
option if they really existed. Human beings probably wouldn't last very long in a world where that
existed and where those kinds of people were fighting each other back and forth. This kind of has,
you know, that they still have weaknesses and those weaknesses could be exploited.
I think it's interesting that Excelsior doesn't have a kryptonite.
And in Superman's history, they invented a kryptonite because, you know, there's no stakes
with somebody who's invulnerable. So they had to create something that made him invulnerable.
And here, his invulnerability isn't, you know, a MacGuffin that they can just throw out. It's
literally his psyche. Like they are playing him against his own mental capacity or his own life
experience, I think, which is really, really important to say.
Well, I mean, all the people, you know, in the normal genre of superhero dumb, you know,
I've been exceptional people. I mean, you know, these powers have been granted to people who actually
can handle the power, even the greatest American hero muddled through.
But, you know, this, you know, this book says, okay, you're going to randomly throw out superpowers.
You're going to hit a few people who are, you know, either incredibly stupid or no better than
average. And this, you know, this is what happens.
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why as much as I'm not a big X-Men fan and there have been.
But I do think it's probably one of the more, I won't say realistic. It makes more sense because
it is just a random choice. People just get powers and some people, you know, use those powers for
good, you know, your X-Men, some people have those powers and they use it for what they believe
is good, even though, you know, it may not actually be good. And you're like, those are like your
Magnetos and stuff like that. And then you've got people who are just, you know, I've got these
powers and I'm going to do what I want and nobody's going to stop me. That's probably a little more
realistic. There would be people who did good things with those powers. But like in this book,
there are people that have the powers and use them specifically to do bad things or be,
they just use them because they can and they're not smart enough to realize what they're doing.
Like the Cromagodon, he has no idea what he's doing. He just happens to have these powers and
that's dangerous. That's somebody and Edwin comes in and he controls that missile. He points where it
goes. That's interesting to me. Well, yeah, you bring up the X-Men. That is one of, you know,
as far as the quote villains, one of the more interesting examples because, you know, the villains
of the X-Men, you know, in their heads, they're the heroes because, you know, Magneto, you know,
he's a concentration camp survivor. So he, you know, he already knows what it is when
the society decides, well, you, you know, you're part of this group and will exterminate you.
And, you know, that's the whole fact. Even though the X-Men, you know, are, are dedicated to
protecting, you know, all of humanity, including the non-enhanced part, there is a significant part
of the normal part of humanity who is, you know, are frightened by these people with extraordinary
powers and, and thanks for this rival, the species, they, they have to be wiped out, you know, so
that the Magneto group sees himself, well, weirdly, prosecuted, persecuted minority and all we're
doing is, you know, it is ensuring our survival. And that's, but the key difference was always, though,
the X-Men wanted to survive as equals, whereas Magneto and his various groups always wanted
not just survival but supremacy. So it was, I mean, the difference between a group of equals
and, well, because we have these powers, we're better than you. And that was good, because
sorry, that was cool, because it always leads to, there's always enough in common between those two
ideologies to where you get those fist pumping moments when they're both on the same side. And
you're like, okay, we don't really agree, but we're gonna, we're gonna do this because there is
something that has the same power as us that is more detrimental than, than what we're trying to do,
you know, like we'll put our stuff aside for right now, we'll deal with that later, but right now
we got to deal with this, which is just a matter of kind of scale, like of what is more dangerous
than anything else, which I think a lot of other things lack. It's just black and white a lot
of the time. Yeah, you always have the story where the aliens come and they have to, you know,
they have to join forces. I mean, even Stephen King brought that up and is, oh, he had this weird
set of models of novels where dreams of heroes coming in and villains coming in in vans, I forget
what the two are, but one, he did a couple, and then one was like a complete reboot because
of same characters, but not with the same, same history. It was kind of freaky.
See now, I think that's where those superhero stories kind of contrast with this story,
because in this story, I don't think you would ever see these superheroes or super villains
be able to get together and work together. Number one, their egos were all way too huge.
Number two, none of them were very smart. Even though some of them were intelligent,
it almost seemed like having these superpowers just gave all these people
the, I don't know, not really privileged, but it gave them motivation to skip things like
school and practice and learning and being able to master some skill. They all just kind of had
their natural abilities and called upon them when they needed and didn't really seem to work very
hard at anything else. So I don't see them being able to, you know, come up with a plan to work
together or to have anything to do with one another that way.
And I see that kind of just like a parallel of real life. If anybody's a fan of these shows,
I'm sorry, and I apologize, but not really. My wife loves those real housewives shows that
there's like 20 different versions of them, and those shows are pretty much that people who
have come from privilege that didn't have to work hard for anything, and they're not that bright
a lot of the time. And I think that that's probably a good model for kind of the interaction
in these books, or in this book specifically is that, you know, they come from privilege,
and it's a different kind of privilege, but it's still the same thing. And I could see where that
would kind of give you that overinflated ego and make you feel like, oh, I don't have to do this
stuff because I'm above it because that's kind of what you see with people who are in that position
without powers. Get you said it better than I did. Maybe that's what the book was trying to say is
that don't don't rely just on your natural talents and natural skills to carry you through life
that you can actually work at things and become proficient. Oh, see, the the thing that I kind of
got that seemed to be Edwin's driving force through most of it was that everyone is accountable
for their actions. Yeah, I like that too. I mean, that seems to to be his overarching problem with
the supers of any kind was that there was no way to hold them accountable. And it seemed like
that was really his problem with that was, you know, if topper wrongs him and take him to court,
get redress and the law makes it right one way or another. If, you know, excelsier wrongs him,
there's nothing anybody can do about it. No, and excelsier put a real fine point on that when
he basically refused to obey the court's authority and kind of talked himself into a corner and
stupidly accepted a challenge or placed a challenge that he then couldn't his own ego wouldn't
have let him back out of it. Now, one thing I just thought of and that this may have more to do
with the author than the the story, but I just realized there are no female superheroes or
super villains mentioned in the story. I had a theory on that and I think that has more to do
with voices because he he did the secretary pretty well, but she was a particular sort of person
with that British accent and she she was as much comic relief as topper was and I think the only
other females in the book were the occasional hooker. And Dr. Loeb's mother who was also comic
relief and just a travesty. But yeah, I don't I don't think there were really any just normal women
in the book and that might have to do with him not having a very convincing woman's voice. I don't
know. All the women he did voice were convincing, but they were kind of just implementations of the
stereotype, maybe even drawn out some to be even more, you know, pointed at that. Yeah, because I
I saw the and whatever character that we can't remember she's Alfred that she's just Alfred is a
female. Oh yeah. Even down to the secretly being awesome at things that you wouldn't expect
angle. She's just Alfred is as a female. Okay, I have to admit that I said Higgins, but Alfred
may fit better. I did chuckle the Higgins comic because I was like, oh yeah, that guy. I don't know
who that is. Oh, come on. I've never been into superheroes until some of the series on
audio books and I I have to admit I actually kind of like superhero stories, but maybe just because
they're superhero stories and now comic books because I just I never really liked comic books,
but no, I have no idea who they get. You mean to tell me you've never seen Magnum P.I.
No, I don't think I have Tom Selleck, right? Oh, dude, dude, jump off the show right now and find
it on Netflix. They must have it. Yeah, I don't have Netflix either. Speaking of jumping off the show,
we're hitting about the two hour mark here at the recording and the last one took me an
embarrassingly long time to edit down. You guys have any closing thoughts on this one? Let's go
say it must be a lot better booked than I thought because I think we've been this may be a
historically long book review. Or it was worse than the rest of us thought because I don't think we've
ever ran hold of book club this much. I think most of our ran up holes started with with a valid
point. Yeah, probably. We do have to side on the next book so we can tell people what to read.
Yeah, I think I X1101 has picked that. But yeah, so before we do any closing thoughts,
are we all set? I'm set. It's a good book. If you're into superhero,
go check it out. It's worth a read. See, I didn't really think about it as a superhero book. I
mean, you know, yeah, that's kind of a part. Yeah, well, I mean, that's part of it. I mean,
that's why Edwin does what he does. But I'm, you know, I still think the superheroes were peripheral
to the story. Well, if it wasn't a superhero book, what did you think of it as?
I guess how to be evil book. I don't, you know, like I said, you know, I think we ought to avoid
in the future avoid how to a and a handbook, you know, stories of how to and handbook in the title.
But, you know, like this is the first one I've actually joined in on. So my opinion shouldn't
carry much weight. God, that's all right. My thought on this was that this, I think this might have
been, if it wasn't the first, it was one of the first, like maybe first three superhero stories
that I ever, you know, listened to or read or anything like that. I mean, of course, I've seen a
couple of movies, but I never really got into superhero movies either. But, you know, having liked
this one, I went out and searched out a few more specifically on potty old books. And Merlaferty
does a good job with superheroes. And there's another one I think it was called Brave Men Run
that really deals with superheroes in a way similar to this where, you know, how do they get
along in the real world with real people around? And I liked those a lot. Those were, those were,
and I forget what Merlaferty said. I think she's a couple that I know one was playing for keeps
where it was a bunch of these superheroes that have really minor or just absurdly odd powers.
And it was, they were both really fun. And then there was one more that was just kind of,
kind of weird where this guy was just, it seemed like he was just barely a superhero. It was one
called Axiom Man that was also a potty old books novel that I liked. I liked all three of those.
And if you liked this and you liked about it, it wasn't like the traditional DC or Marvel comics
book or comic book in every way, those were a lot of fun. And I'd recommend those. And now,
also the secret world chronicles that series is, I enjoy that too.
Although the slavery books as you describe them remind me of the, of the movie Mystery Man.
I was thinking we're talking about superheroes maybe not living up to the, to the brand.
I'm, I was about to buy the, I'm glad I didn't buy the movie at Walmart because it came out on TV
about the time was getting, it's getting close to being cheap enough, but it was, it was the second
Iron Man movie. And really I didn't like it was just Robert Downey Jr. being drunk
for the first two thirds of the movie with superpowers and then finally sobering up enough because
things were coming at him at the end to, to, to step up and save the world again. I didn't like
that movie at all. Yes, Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man, they're just like Robert, we want you to be
but with more money and a lot smarter is really all it is. And to be fair, that is pretty much
Iron Man's character for a good portion of his run. I'm drunk all the time and then I have to
sober up to be a superhero. Well, that's what I mean. I'm one of the, the crazy internet memes that
I've seen is on a scale of Robert Downey Jr. to Misha Collins, how much like your character are you
and Misha Collins is this goofy, carefree guy who plays a, at all, like that. So the opposite
thereof. And I thought I was the only person that ever saw mystery men, but yes, if that movie
were any good, it would be Merlaferty's book. Yeah, I want to second that recommendation,
Merlaferty, the plan for keeps is awesome. I like the concept of mystery men, so I'm going to have
to look up those books. Yeah, the concept was good, it just was a really terrible movie.
So yeah, our next book, thanks to X1101, and I got to get behind this one. I liked this one too.
I've already heard this one down and out in the Magic Kingdom by Corey Doctoro.
So I think it's an excellent pick. It's, boy, if somebody doesn't know Corey Doctoro,
how would you describe his writing? Awesome. Oh, I tried that one on audio books and I got two
chapters, it could not stand the thing, but I guess I'll take another one for the team and
listen through it. I've already got it downloaded. And see, I listened to both this one and
Eastern Standard Tribe, which is also very good, and that one was read by him, and I really wanted
to go with that one, but I really think down and out in the Magic Kingdom is a more interesting
story. It is. It gets into some topics and some themes that you might not normally think about
when thinking about science fiction. It is science fiction, make no mistake. I'm glad you picked
this one because this is one of the Corey Doctoro ones I haven't gotten to, so that good choice.
I think this was his first book. You may be correct in that it was his first novel that he
completed. I think he's got a bunch of short stories I think before this, but I think you're
right that it's his first novel. Well, it should be, should make for an interesting one the next time,
of course. I've made no secret on other cast that we should get around some time to look to
the latest effort of a friend of the show, and I'll leave it to that because having participated
only once in this forum, I don't think I'm at the point where I should be trying to dictate
what the next book is, but I hope we get to it eventually. No, exactly the opposite. This is
only my second go-round and I'm suggesting the next one, so if you've got a suggestion
the month after that probably, unless somebody else has one. Yeah, well, I will jump in and say
50. I know what you're talking about. We discussed it on the last audio book club. I talked about
Lost in Bronx's book, Street Candles, and I said we definitely have to do that one. He's a member
of the community. He's a friend of ours and it's an incredible book. It's just not finished yet,
so we're just waiting for him to finish it before we do that, and don't think that just because
you're new that you can't pick the book. Traditionally, the book has always been picked by the newest
member of the book club, and the only reason X-1-1-1 didn't pick last week is because
somebody else who was new did, we've had a bunch of new people lately, so don't think you don't get
to pick the book. I mean, that's what it's about. You're on the list for picking one Todd,
just on the list for picking one as well. Yeah, I think it'll be finished by the time there's
another book club, but certainly, you know, but time we talk again, I think we'll have the whole
thing. Speaking of, when I had emailed Pokey about this already, I would like to try and move
next month to the 15th, which is the third Tuesday, because, you know, I'm suggesting the book,
but I am on vacation on the 8th and will not be able to take time out to chat with your lovely
people. Yeah, I was just trying to mention that. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I've got
some things going on in early July, too, that will make pushing it back a week more convenient for me.
Yeah, I have no objection. You guys start a little early for me, but I made it this time, so
you know, with a little effort, I can make it around next time.
That should work for me. All right, great. Yeah, because, and I know, we discussed this on a previous
show, but it's worth repeating for 51.50 and for anyone who's listening that hasn't listened before,
but yeah, we kind of, I picked the second Tuesday of each month to be the book club night,
because it's patch Tuesday, and that's kind of a little tongue-in-cheek way of saying that,
you know, we won't be doing patches. We've got a free night, you know, while everybody else is
trying to, you know, correct their Windows machine that we can do this instead, but,
I don't know, you guys probably heard me booting up my wife's computer earlier, because
she's still going to patch her machine. I know that feel, bro. Yeah, we'll push it to the
third Tuesday for July, and I will make another Google Calendar event if that's okay with everybody,
and I'll publish the list. And I do want to say, actually, for anyone who's considering participating,
probably the best thing you can do at this point is join the the HPR mailing list, because we're
recording this show before the previous one is even published, and the queue is very healthy at
the moment, so that trend may continue for a few months. And we hope it continues that way. We
like to have a nice full queue at HPR, so if you want to be part of the audio book clubs, join
the HPR mailing list, and just say that you want to be in the book club, I have my own little
mailing list that I send updates like that out to people, but that's the way to get in on it,
if anybody's interested. And we don't have or the book club doesn't have a reserve spot in the
queue, does it? No, no, no. And I did want to bring up the queue. Thanks for mentioning that
Poke. It seems like, you know, a month or so ago, we were down to one or two shows before we
hit the emergency queue, and the call went out, and the community really stepped up and answered that
call. I know I recorded a show and uploaded it just over a week ago, or no, two or three weeks ago,
and it was, I was a month out, and that was just awesome to see. Yeah, I looked at yesterday,
and I think it's 45 days, so people be hearing this in August, I think. Yeah, at the time that we
recorded May's episode, there were four shows left in the queue, and we were probably going to go
out the next week, you know, if we had been able to upload it that night, by the end of the week,
it had gone from four to 30, and then by the time I got the show uploaded, which unfortunately was
like three weeks later, so 15 shows had been used up, and it was still up at 40 or 45 when I got
it posted last Friday, so I'm thrilled to see the queue as healthy as it is. Please, everybody,
keep it up. We're loving what we're loving the shows that we're getting. It's all fantastic
content, and please keep that up. But if you want to join the audiobook club, it means you're
going to have to get into the mailing list, because the show is, you know, by the time you hear
this, we'll have recorded one or two more episodes. So, you know, waiting to hear the book announced
verbally isn't going to work for the next couple of months, at least. Of course, one, you know,
once it's scheduled, it's there in the calendar, and you can cheat. That is true. There is,
there is, if you look at the calendar, you can just download the show whenever you feel like it.
That is true. You don't have to wait for it to hit the RSS feed. Oh, I like it. One show every
morning. It's my daily driver on my way to work every day. Yeah, I'm with you. All right, so
thanks everyone for joining us and listening through the episode. If you made it this far,
thanks for making it all the way to the end. Please don't forget to listen to the next one down
and out in the Magic Kingdom by Corey Doctoro. This is available in several places, but the
podiobooks.com is just as easy as any other place to find it. You can get it from his website. I'm
sure it's probably even ways you can find a pay for it. Corey's pretty good about shut up and take
my money. Thanks everyone for listening, and thank you guys, especially for joining in tonight
tojx1101 and 5150. It's been fantastic. Working with you guys again. Thank you. Thank you.
Thanks for organizing it, man. It's nice to have a place to come and talk about this stuff.
It's a blast. Yeah, I can't wait till my turn comes around in the queue again. Either I got a good one.
All right, everybody. Have a good night. Ciao.
Face. Once again, I have 50. Good night, 50. See ya.
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I have to say, this audio book thing is kind of addictive. It totally is, isn't it?
And it doesn't help or hurt depending on which direction you're going, that I listen to everything,
like one and a half or faster speed. It depends on what it is. I don't know, I can't listen to
stuff at extra speed most times. I've pretty much gotten to where I can listen to everything at
2.75 speed. I would love to get higher, but I think that's as fast as my brain can put it in.
Even I'm astounded by that. I can listen at high speeds. Almost, I mean, I think 1.8 is comfortable,
just if I'm listening to something, it's because I want to listen to it, so I kind of feel like I
should savor it. I totally get that. 1.8 is kind of where I set my audio books, and I'm listening
because I want to, but there is a huge amount of things I want to listen to, and much smaller
amount of time that my brain can actually do that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's exactly where I am.
If I didn't listen to stuff as fast as I did, there's no way I would give it in, but to me,
I'm just, I don't know. I just, I actually enjoy listening to things faster. If I slow it down,
it's just like, oh my god, get to the point. Yeah, I had a, I use pocket casts on my Android phone
as my pod catcher, because it has the speed up, and I started listening to something before
and finished downloading, so it was playing it at 1x speed, and I'm like, oh god, is that what they
normally sound like? Everybody sounds like they've been on a quite loads or something, like everybody
talks like this. I think part of it is good podcasters deliberately slow down, you know, the whole
public speaking, you speak more slowly, but that's not how people speak when they're just talking to
people, and so when I speed things up, it's almost bringing it back to typical conversation speeds.
Hey, 5150. Hey, Poke, it's a historic day. Oh, in what way? Got the internet or radio upgraded today.
I'm actually my dad's watching a Netflix movie, and I'm downloading a distro as we speak.
And we're the first, and I feel so honored. You sound terrific too. I thought it was going to say
it was a special day, because he was actually on time, but I guess this is more important.
We hadn't slowed down by all his internet. I was Tuesday.
Well, I rescheduled the... Well, I didn't reschedule it, but we're supposed to work cattle today,
but the vet thought he'd get his shoot stuck in the mud out here, because it's rained the
last two days and wouldn't be able to get it back, so I'd open a place in my schedule so I could
be here this afternoon. Does anybody else have anything before we start, or should we get started?
I'm good. I'm ready. Poke, it's the quarter going. It's been going for almost an hour.