hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr3599.txt

Episode: 3599
Title: HPR3599: Linux Inlaws S01E56: Slackware - A User's Perspective
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr3599/hpr3599.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 02:02:59

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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3599 for Thursday, the 19th of May 2022.
Today's show is entitled, Linux and Laws-Sci, Slack or a User's Perspective.
It is hosted by Monochromic, and is about 45 minutes long, it carries an explicit flag.
The summary is, a discussion with a long time Slack or User about this oldest Linux
distro still alive.
This is Linux and Laws, a podcast on topics around free and open-source software, any associated
contraband, communism, the revolution in general, and whatever else, fans is critical.
Please note that this and other episodes may contain strong language, offensive humor,
and other certainly not politically correct language.
You have been warned.
While parents insist on this disclaimer, happy mum, thus the content is not suitable
for consumption in the workplace, especially when played back on a speaker in an open
plan office or similar environments, any minors under the age of 35, or any pets including
fluffy little killer bunnies, your trusted guide dog, unless on speed, and Qt-rexes
or other associated dinosaurs.
Welcome to Linux and Laws, season 1, episode 56, Martin Hothics, how are things?
How are you?
Martin Hothics, can't complain, can't complain, and how's the aisle, formally known as the
United Kingdom, then get down to Kingdom and know some island in the North Sea?
That's a good question, it's a difference between an island and an island.
I thought the owl was the thing in the middle of a church, but what do I know?
Martin, island.
Sorry, island.
I'm confusing.
You're confusing me, Mr. Viser.
I know, but it's very difficult on me.
Indeed.
Exactly.
This one of the reasons why we do podcast, though.
But this is not about us, but rather about a very interesting topic, which nicely brings
us to August.
It brings me to August tonight, or rather Martin and myself, and we're going to talk
about something called Slackware, and we have no other on the podcast than my esteemed
friend, acquaintance, last but not least, what's the word I'm going to for?
A UG member, yes, of course, co-co-member, whatever.
Somebody that I know from the lag, but last, why don't you do this to yourself before
I make any more mistakes?
Yes, well, we're going to say it.
I am a member of the look in Frankfurt, and I worked years quite some time with Slackware.
And yes, in the beginning, when I first go to the look, everybody gets asked which
distribution he's using, and I said Slackware.
And the other guy said, ah, you're this one, and the ice was broken, and I'll say this
in this way.
Yes.
And you were being serious at the time.
Yes.
How long was that a go, I wonder?
How long ago was that?
How long?
You were, you were that too.
Um, two years?
How long I'm going, coming to the look?
Two years?
More like three years.
No, it's more than that.
No, no, no, seven years, not.
Five?
Well, you weathered for the first couple of most open events, no?
Yes.
We started them in 2016, so that's at least six years.
Yeah.
You probably lost a few years with the look.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The age is going on, and sometimes we'll be lost.
Okay.
Sorry.
Anyways, I used, um, it's like where I think over 10 years.
And yeah.
Just a few.
Yeah.
You, you asked me to have a chat.
Um, over, it's like we're on, on, on of the interview of the user.
Absolutely.
And this is what this podcast is all about, uh, this episode of the podcast is all about
it.
But before we go into the technical details last, maybe you want a gentleman of time,
or sentences, or whatever, or words, rather, on your background.
Oh, yes.
Um, this will be a short one.
I am an interested amateur.
Um, I have no background of IT at all.
I'm working in a total, total, different business.
And, um, yes.
What can I say?
I'm interested in Linux and I work with Linux at home.
And laughing at Windows users.
If Windows do, does what it do over the time.
Don't we all?
Producing, producing dialogue, messages, and funny sounds, and everything, what, what doesn't
have to do with productive, um, working.
So, if I may ask, what brought you to Slackware in the first place?
All these years, all these years ago.
Oh, yeah.
This is, um, perhaps quite interesting.
I was a student in the University of Applied Sciences.
Sciences.
Sciences.
In Russell's time.
And I was studying engineering.
And I lived in the dorm rooms there.
And setting my dorm.
And we were a few people who had an appointment and an appointment that I, um,
will book a DSL Internet.
But, okay.
And I helped them to set the order.
I helped to set them up the DSL connection.
Wow.
So, you did this under the cover?
Under the covers, brother?
Sorry.
Yes.
You won ISPAT University without anybody knowing it, apart from the, from the few, from the few, few people in the dorm.
Yes.
Just on, not all people in the dorm, just a few.
I didn't tell people I think that was.
And, um, yeah, I had an old PC.
And I decided that Windows is no option.
It was the time of Windows 2000.
Some, um, colleagues.
Some students made this at this time.
And I had an automatic task at five o'clock in the morning or six o'clock in the morning.
For an automatic reboot.
That, um, the computer doesn't reboot during the day randomly.
And I doesn't want a illegal copy of Windows with a, you know, on a, on a computer that is 24-7 in the Internet.
Completed there.
And then I, I, I, doesn't have, I have no clue of Windows Linux.
And then I got good.
Then I'm going to the media.
And bought Zuzer version eight or something.
Okay.
Something, you know, something, something like that.
So you originally, you were a Zuzer user, okay?
No.
I wasn't, never used it.
Never used it.
Exactly.
Because, okay.
Because I tried to install it.
I tried to install it.
And, um, after one week of trying to error,
I said, if no one knows someone who have a clue of Linux, I have Internet.
I asked everyone, do you know Linux?
Everyone said, no.
And I asked, do you know someone who knows Linux?
And everyone said, again, no.
And then I said, okay.
Until end of this week, if there is no one who have clue of Linux, I have Internet.
Have fun.
And at the next day, a student, one of these small group knocked on my door and said,
my last, this is Sven, Sven knows Linux.
And Sven was also a student and was part-time administrator at the Frankfurt Airport.
And he uses Slackware for his machine.
And he comes, he takes, he took a seat on my computer.
And I thought, okay, you can watch him over the shoulder and learn something
because you don't want to be the one that after the installing and in the operational time
come every second over the other with another problem with,
oh, how I can do this, how I can do that?
No, I'm wrecking.
And yes, after 30 seconds, I thought, okay, it was a good plan,
but it doesn't work like it is intended.
He installed Slackware, he configured Slackware and I learned Slackware.
Something about six months every day, I read in the Internet, I looked at my configuration
without GUI, everything on the CLI.
And just when I doesn't go on with a problem or solve a problem,
then I called him.
And yes, it was a little frustrating because, and I think every Linux user knows this,
he comes to my place, he said on the computer,
he opened the right configuration file, he said this one character write,
what was wrong and everything goes right and everything is very well.
And yeah, over the time I learned to use Slackware and then I decided that I will use
Slackware not only as a server, but as a desktop.
And voila, I was a Slackware user.
Interesting, and kids, for those of you who are listening, that was even before Yammer,
where a single character would make a difference.
But Martin, over to you.
Yes, do you remember me which year this was?
1998, 1993 or something, right?
Okay, I mentioned it in the 2000s.
I'm joking Martin, I'm joking, you go out there.
That was Slackware 8, I think, version 8 or 10.
But without a GUI, and it was great.
It worked, and Sven said every code, every line of code on the computer is a security risk.
You don't need a GUI.
And he was right.
It doesn't need a GUI.
Because in Slackware, every configuration is text.
And you don't have to have a GUI for fancy administration tools and so on.
You have to know what you do.
So you've used it for 10 years to put it simply or something like that.
Have you tried any other Linux distribution since?
And if so, what is your opinion to stick with Slackware?
Yes, I tried many distributions.
And I installed a virtual machine and tried from interest several distributions, tried them out and looked at them and do some things.
I had always a Ubuntu distribution in the virtual machine to test programs.
And before I installed them in my productive, in my main system.
And yes, there were no time, there were the wish to change until these points that I changed really to another distribution.
I saw in the virtual machine weren't so interesting.
And my mindset was changing in these in these unique way.
The kiss principle and then I saw Ubuntu and Ubuntu cried in my face.
I will make everything for you and I am smart and I know, no, you don't.
No, it's not for me, not my cup of tea.
Okay, and you're running this now, but it has a show over and there's a desktop as well.
Yes, I ran it as a server and as a desktop.
And there were a file server and this routing system in this, so to say, and on the desktop.
And it runs well over the years.
If you have a Slackware once fought down, it is your friend indeed.
But you have to fight it down first.
Okay.
Are you saying it's very different from other Linux machines?
Yeah, very different, not very different.
It is a regular distribution.
But in his philosophy, it has some differences to other distributions that may sound funny in some way.
For example, nothing will be changed until it has to be changed.
That's a good thing.
This is a good thing.
But the installer of Slackware is the same installer who were created or programmed when Slackware was born.
It is a D-message Windows system and some people are laughing at this.
It is the same system and it will be the same system until it is needed to change.
And the bootloader Lilo Slackware works with Lilo.
Something like this Slackware half on the editor at is in the distribution integrated.
You know the editor at?
Yes.
I think I know.
But no, no.
I don't know anyone who uses it, including me.
No.
This is my behind-bim came around.
There is always the stream flavor available called SED.
If you choose that for a change, and the hipster is like Martin or kind of have that benched onto things like Bim and start calling the eye for that man.
Yes.
I think it is fun even when you use Slackware and someone asked you, yes, I need a serial console and you said, yes, many comers are installed.
And every time on this you have your seal.
The head of your opponent of your track partner is banging on the table on the East.
What bootloader do you have Lilo Pock?
What is here?
How will this be done?
Oh yes, was this easy?
You go to this file and change this to that Pock.
Yeah, but I was really happy with it.
That's the important thing, no?
Yes, of course.
And I learned that these these original Unix traditions are good.
One program for one task, these things are.
And I live in this context after these philosophy doesn't understand these, the other things.
Like programs who want to do everything, no.
Why?
I see no reason.
It is complex.
It is a beautiful program and it runs and you can make a lot of things.
But I need not one program who makes all, but not in the right way.
I want to have a program, a program for email and a program for my address.
For my addresses and a program for my calendar and so on.
Because of these programs that I choose and it is my working in.
Not some work to chain or workflow that a developer thinks that it is the right for me.
And I want to choose a email client.
I want to choose a separate address database and my calendar program and so on.
Many distributions may want to make this decision for you.
Like Windows does it too.
Windows is the best example for this.
If you want to use Windows, Windows is prices you or yes, prices you in his way in his workflow and his tool set.
But this is not mine.
And you lose efficiency through that, I think.
Very true.
So what do you think makes Slackware different from other Linux-based and Linux distributions?
Like the ones like Ubuntu or say we kind of already touch open-susor.
But maybe send to us when it was still the rage or for the MetaDebian.
I think one big point is that Slackware doesn't have a dependency tracking.
It doesn't do it all.
If you want to install a program you can do this but you have to track for yourself that all of the dependencies are fulfilled.
And this is again a positive point in my eyes.
Because the most programs I installed in Slackware had two three libraries as dependencies.
And every dependency tracking I used running into an rampage sooner or later.
In Susa I wanted to install a CD player and he installed four gigabyte software, inclusive cups and some servers and so on.
And no, this doesn't have to be done because of I want to have a 270 kilobyte big CD player.
This does not happen in Slackware.
So on the off-chance I mean if you want to print a CD type of contents.
No, if you want to print type of contents of a record or something without cups you lost, no?
Yes, but I don't have to install cups to play a CD.
That's true, but if you want to print something on the side, it comes back.
So cool, it's a cup.
Cups, of course, being the things that the community used to install or the thing that can be convened so from Apple.
Because I think it came up in the first place with this printing subsystem, which is now the standard on Linux, by the way.
So the community borrowed it and completely forgot to give it back, but that's a totally different ballgame or story rather.
So it's a very interesting perspective because out of convenience I reckon that most people wouldn't bother with a distribution that doesn't really solve dependencies.
Even Arch does this.
But even Arch does resolve dependencies.
Yeah, yeah, it is. It does.
But I really, the only distribution I know that doesn't check for dependencies is like where at this moment.
It doesn't know another one.
What about Gen 2?
If you do the words, I think that checks.
Doesn't that check for dependencies Martin?
You have been using Gen 2 for the last word on the cover at least because even you have doesn't know about it for the last 20 years, no?
Something on those lines.
And of course, Linux from scratch comes to mind because you can forget about package management there.
Never mind.
Linux from scratch.
Maybe in the show notes.
You are right.
So last, you're still using Slackware.
Or have you moved on to some more hipster like?
Like Martin has all those years ago.
Martin, do you use the Slackware sometime ago?
I don't know if you've done but I don't remember.
No, I've never given that a trial.
Although I did.
I've never been in this from scratch at some stage.
But then I draw the hipster club and use.
And use normally pretty fun distributions like they like Debian or Arch or Ubuntu even.
Okay.
And yes, on Arch at this moment, I'm not using Slackware anymore.
What caused you to make that move?
I was frustrated.
Slackware on the version 14.2 was extra ordinary long, the official release.
There are two branches, the stable release and the current release and the current release is the development branch.
And it is updated daily and normally it is stable, but sometimes not.
You can update daily and everything normally works fine.
Sometimes it breaks your system.
And I don't want this on my productive computer.
I don't want a stable distribution with stable programs.
And want to use them and doesn't want to bother their stability or their dependency, their dependencies.
And so I use the stable on branch.
It gets security updates and it is there and you can use it.
But at one time it is.
It was so old that I can't use programs because of the version of the GLIPC.
This program is aborted with a message that my GLIPC is too old.
I see.
There is no way for me then.
And something like PHP or some PHP.
The version of PHP was the version that is version 5 was version 5.
And version 5 is not only out of the out of the out of his time.
It is achieved.
And away.
And yes, I tried to write an email to Patrick Fulgerton to explain my situation.
Not to get an answer or get something like a to get an excuse or something.
He has his work and he cannot excuse for everything one of his users likes at this moment.
But I just wanted to write it down.
And the email came back because it was not deliverable.
And at first I thought I made a mistake and I didn't.
I wrote this email again and the same answer.
I got the same answer from the main server that this email, the official email from the official homepage of Slackware, cannot be delivered.
At this point I decided that I will change my distribution.
And I asked about another distribution.
And then I installed Debian first.
But Debian wasn't the right thing for me.
It is a good distribution but not for me.
And then I installed Arch.
Arch satisfied my needs more or less to know.
And I'm happy with it.
That's the main important thing.
But then you're using this on an entire right on the inter-processor.
Yes.
Yes.
So no fancy arm 32 bit.
Perhaps Arch.
No, no.
It is yes AMD and inter-processors.
Yes, yes.
Because as we all know, the alarm project gave up on 32 bit arm support just before Christmas.
Okay.
So that's the reason why I have to kind of make up my mind if I want to run the 32 bit arm systems.
And there are quite a few of them sitting in my zoo on Debian or something else.
But the jury is still out on this topic.
Martin, any questions from your side before we close this off?
Yeah, that's one.
I mean, it looks like Stackware was pretty popular some years ago and then went a little bit on the decline.
So how are you seeing that from your perspective?
Do you see many fellow Stackware users or judging by your opening comment?
There are that many out there.
You see the involvement of Stackware going forwards.
Can you repeat the question?
Yes.
I mean, it looks like the usage of Stackware was quite high right then some years ago.
And then it slowed down and slowed much lower in the industry in the usage rankings of Unix distributions.
Yeah.
Just wondering how do you see other users using Stackware?
And is it slowly declining further or that people are adopting other?
Is it increasing more mainstream Unix distributions?
Is that what Europe has been doing?
Yeah.
In my eyes, the Stackware community always was very small, but yes, it was in my eyes.
It is a small and close-knit community.
And there were a German forum for Stackware at this time, I began.
Administrators and professionals using Stackware on their work and gave really good answers if you asked the questions right.
Everyone knows it that you have to make a small example of the problem to explain or doesn't use questions like,
oh, I have a problem.
And yes, that's the question.
And they were very helpful.
They were kind and they helped as they could.
But in this forum too, it is that person for person changed to another distribution.
And if this forum isn't anymore, it is like quite a few years offline.
And I think one of the reasons is the actuality of the packages.
If I have a distribution who is mainly for server use, I cannot use PHP 5 and update it only to another up to a later version in the testing branch.
These things don't understand these things.
I don't understand this decision from Patrick Volkerting who is the benevolent dictator for life.
But if I have a distribution for servers, I have to have some packages actual.
I have to update them regularly.
If you don't do this, more and more people will change to another distribution.
And don't use your product.
Well, that's the case.
I reckon with any decent open-source software.
I mean, if you don't maintain it, if you don't improve it, it will fall by the wayside.
And eventually you're talking about BitRot.
For example, there was a file sharing client by the name of Seafarer.
The links may be in the show notes that exactly suffer the fate about 5-7 years ago.
So many people who at the time were using Seafarer, move rough to other file sharing solutions like next thought and what have you.
That's exactly what happened.
Is this a valid answer for your question Martin?
Yeah, I think it's very good.
No, that's not very good.
It sounds like it is on the client sadly.
Yes, it is the oldest active distribution.
It's not right.
25 years, right?
Completely mistaken.
It is three months older than Debian.
Distroarch says here 25, oldest, oldest, still lived distributions.
25 years old, something like that, yeah.
Wow.
What's going on?
It can be, and Martin, you said something, but it was an ununderstandable.
That's usually the case when Chris is talking.
Remark will be censored, of course.
That goes without saying.
Mark, and if anyone remarks before we part ways or rather before we do the boxes.
It's got such a good name really hasn't it.
Slackware.
For the name alone, it should stay around.
Yeah, for the slackers or mothers, right?
Okay, time for the boxes I suppose.
Last box, the boxes are a trademark thing with the laws.
This is something that is worth mentioning.
Anything goes.
Martin normally mentions movies, some illegal drugs, counterfeit money, that sort of thing.
I almost stick to books and other cultural achievements.
But really anything goes.
So, Lars, what's your pick of the week then?
My pick of the week.
Let me see.
Anything worth mentioning essentially.
Yes.
Oh, I'm...
Why don't you go first, Chris?
I'm trying to, I'm trying to mention distro watch actually for a change.
But that's the easy one I suppose, so this is what it is.
Last Martin, whatever.
Please, please feel free Martin.
I'll go next.
I don't know if anybody's ever seen the film The Ipchis Fowl, which had Michael Cain in it.
What?
The Ipchis Fowl.
It's like a...
Let's say a spy movie from the...
Is it what...
Is that what are your art house movies, Martin?
No, it's not art house.
It's got Michael Cain in it.
It's hardly art.
It's hardly art.
It's hardly art.
So Martin, why don't you enlighten him out?
Why don't you enlighten us about the latest edition to your art house collection of movies?
I like art house.
I'll help you with that, I'm afraid.
Just summarise the whole thing.
What are we summarising now?
Your movie.
Your pick of the week.
Ah, right.
No, it's not a movie.
The original movie was a 60's movie.
Now there is a series along the same lines.
Come out, which is also great.
If you like sort of 60's called War-type scenarios.
If I can fight this...
Maybe in the show notes.
It's on ITV, which you probably won't be able to get in your country.
Unless you probably have...
You can just set up a video.
Well, you see.
Exactly.
So this is the BPH title.
So if it's on ITV, that's almost halfway towards the heart of a movie, no?
Yeah, it's just quite hard to hear.
In my opinion.
ITV, what can I say now?
I'm joking.
I mean, if you would have said BBC, yes, for all of these, but...
Maybe I can dig it up, you never know.
But last but not least, what's your pick?
The pick is Meet the Fiebers.
The film Meet the Fiebers.
You know Meet the Fiebers?
Yes.
I wouldn't say I know it, but I heard about it.
But you have to drink a lot of alcohol before the scene of this film.
No worry about it.
Anytime there is.
I heard, you know, vaguely of it.
So why don't you lighten this last?
It is really funny.
It is out of the life of shows.
And it is really weird.
Yes, thank you.
And it is the opposite of all Arthouse films.
That's good.
This is ancient, right?
Yes, not ancient, but it has a few years on it, yes, I think.
I am TV talks, not all things.
They might good things in the past as well.
And it is not in Netflix and not in Amazon.
Amazing.
Amazon.
Amazon available.
And so on.
And you have to have it physically.
Last, do you know who did this?
I'm a guy, I'm quite impressed.
Sorry, who directed this movie?
Peter Jackson, 1989.
That's exactly the one.
Yeah, exactly like Peter Jackson that did some sort of strange trilogy about elves or something.
It is mainly the show notes.
You normally watch that kind of movie, though.
So puppets and so on.
It is really funny.
You don't mean Lord of the Rings then.
It is the best act I do.
Oh, it's in the classes as art has movies.
So if you have any questions about Arthouse movies, female dresses, Martin.
I don't go limited to Lord of the Rings.
Any parting remarks before we close off the show.
And I don't want to hear Arthouse movie well.
No.
Okay.
That's nice.
Thanks, thanks a lot.
Yes, last.
Thank you very much for being on the show.
You're welcome.
I appreciate it.
I hope it is usable.
Absolutely.
Especially given the fact that I do not speak Dutch Martin.
I do not speak German.
I do not speak German.
I do not speak German.
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Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
pick it up.
Pick it up a Brazilian tea box!
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
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Pick it up and leave.
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Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Pick it up and leave.
Well, you know why is your name Patrick Fulcating?
It's a practical joke.
Okay, I always do that sort of thing just to confuse Martin most of the time at times it works.
Unfortunately, actually, your voice over is answered.
But unfortunately, as we progress with the episodes, this becomes less and less effective, I'm tempted to say.
You have to be more creative instead.
Oh, we have this already, so no sweat, yes.
Welcome.
How long do we need for this one hour shot?
We normally, we normally ask him about about 400 minutes.
Okay.
I have been proven to be off on this one.
I have some food here in my place we can go.
If you want to get some water or some food supplies now it will be the time.
Okay, jokes aside.
Well, apart from my co-host and his woods problems, everything's fine.
We're going to cut this out anyway.
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