hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr4343.txt

Episode: 4343
Title: HPR4343: Interviewing the Redot engine Founder
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4343/hpr4343.mp3
Transcribed: 2025-10-25 23:24:04

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This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 4343 for Wednesday the 26th of March 2025.
Today's show is entitled, Interviewing the Redot Engine Fender.
It is part of the series' interviews.
It is hosted by Celeste and is about 64 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is, discussing the project birth.
In this future, other engines and dining into GPL licenses.
Today's show is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Like License.
Hi everyone and welcome to this new episode of Hacker Public Radio.
Today we have a new guest.
This is the first interview for me and his first interview at Hacker Public Radio.
He is the founder of a famous, I mean, hopefully famous, fork of the Godot Engine.
That's a free and open source game engine.
And yeah, we have the pleasure to have here, Andrew.
Hey, how are you?
That's right, I'm fine.
Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm just arrived with the train.
So, quite a long trip, but I'm fine.
So, let's start with the very basic question, because the audience might know Godot,
but probably not Rido.
First of all, how do you call the project Rido, but I don't.
So, I normally say Rido or Rido.
A lot of people say Rido, you know, Rido.
It's the same situation with pronouncing Godot.
Nobody really knows how to pronounce it, so they just make stuff up.
So, we've just kind of continued the tradition of not knowing how to really pronounce it.
Okay, fair enough, fair enough.
So, why was this project this fork even started?
I mean, stocking a fork and maintaining is a lot of work, definitely.
Oh yeah, you're not wrong.
So, forks in general have a distinguished history of forking for dissatisfational reasons.
We'll say.
And, you know, that's kind of part for the course, really.
So, at least for me, there were originally four of us that forked it,
that got together and started the fork.
And so, originally, at least for me, it was due to kind of the way things were going,
as far as it not being a community driven anymore as much,
more catering to the corporate sponsorships and, you know, building features
that they want and neglecting a lot of the community driven stuff.
And that's still the case.
We've actually put forward a couple of fixes for a couple of things,
and those things have been shot down in favor of, well, in one case,
we put forward a fix for a packet loss problem for multiplayer games.
And that was shot down in favor of a PR that they made themselves several days later for the same thing,
which they've had to actually fix multiple times now,
and where our fix still works.
But it's just a situation where there's less community focus
on the fixes and things. I mean, Gadosa, it's an open source project,
and they should be more accepting of code coming in from the community,
and less concerned with what is being proposed or worked on.
They're now paying people full time to work on it.
So, you know, the people that are getting paid should really be working on implementing stuff
that the community is asking for. And in our opinion, it's less so now at this point.
The other issue and the other reason that we fought was the kind of state of the community.
All of this, this whole backlash and stuff started around a kind of a stupid tweet.
Yeah, I heard it. I am in the Italian Godore group.
So I witnessed the situation unfolding live.
I don't directly have Twitter.
Yeah, the reaction of the social media manager was almost childish, I can say,
because having different opinion in a group in a community is the basic principle,
I think, of the free end of resources after.
So people from different parts of the world, different religions,
different political opinions, that all can work together towards a tool.
They can all freely use.
While blocking and banning people for simply asking them to focus on the tool instead of politics is quite absurd to me.
So yeah, there was a big debate even in the Italian group.
Okay, so people agreed some people not.
That's kind of how it went.
There was, you know, obviously a big debate around it.
And for people who maybe haven't heard of this or don't know what the situation was,
the Godot Foundation brought on some people, including a community manager,
who is relatively new to the Godot ecosystem.
The other thing is, Godot, I guess around that same time, made a new discord,
because there was a previous discord that they did consider their official discord,
which was called Godot Cafe.
A lot of people get it wrong and they say, well, it was never official at one time.
It was their official discord.
And so when that gentleman, the guy who ran that, made some very off-color remarks, we'll say,
they disavowed the whole discord at some point and made their own official discord
and had a community manager to run it.
And I had started noticing some things before the backlash,
because I've been in both the Cafe and now the official Godot Discord for rather long periods of time.
You know, I've been on and off using Godot since 2014 when it first opened sourced.
Yeah, from the very start, one of the yearly adopters.
Yeah, pretty much.
I was a big fan of it and I still am.
And so I've noticed the discord kind of starting to cater to certain groups.
You know, a game engine discord should be about the game engine.
You know, people can have their differences of opinions and their different standpoints and viewpoints and political views.
And that's okay.
But the discord itself shouldn't cater to any of those things.
And they'd more and more been catering to different groups,
whether you want to call them minority groups or whatever.
If you go and take a look at Godot's official discord,
the very first thing you're met with in the,
I think it's the general section, not the general section, but like the server introductory section.
There are certain rooms that are specified to certain groups.
And people that are not in those groups are not allowed in those rooms.
And to me, that's exclusionary, that's not inclusionary.
Yeah, so instead of having a neutral group where everyone can discuss, they subdivided it, basically.
Exactly.
Okay, okay.
Yeah.
So, you know, there's discord in a long time.
Okay.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
Okay.
It's just kind of a symptom of the whole thing, really.
The outlook of the manager running the thing.
And so when this pretty much nobody made a tweet on Twitter about game engines or woke,
you know, and only woke people will use them, which is ridiculous.
And, you know, the community manager said, oh, you know, the game engines are woke now.
Well, show us all your woke games pound woke up or hashtag woke up.
To people that just use a game engine for a game engine, they don't want to see all that kind of stuff.
They don't want to, you know, they don't want to see like their product, as they see it,
catering to specific groups of people, just make it about, you know,
make it about the engine or make it, you know, just, you know, just stay neutral.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Don't pick a side.
Absolutely.
And so when they did that, they essentially picked a side without maybe even realizing that's what they were doing,
which caused backlash.
But instead of just kind of brushing it off, you know, whoopsie, you know, we made it boo-boo.
Sorry about that.
Move on.
They doubled down on it and started banning and blocking and all these kinds of things,
which created more of a shit storm than just a stupid tweet would have.
Okay.
So I tried to sum up.
So basically, as I understood it, there was already a need for a fork that you noticed about the
management of the priority of features.
And then these old Twitter drama was very useful as a trigger to decide to start it.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was pretty much the trigger, so to speak.
Okay.
So, just to curiosity, how is the redo project now?
It's doing quite well.
Our discord is well over 10,000 now, I think, which is, I mean, quite large in terms of discord.
I don't think we're quite at, you know, a good O levels yet, but I mean, just having a discord of over 10,000 in a matter of months is a pretty big deal.
Yeah.
I know.
So you got your Twitter account hacked, so you have followers.
That happens when multiple people handle something and, yeah.
Yeah.
We did lose the original Twitter account, but that's okay.
We're re-bounding.
I think our current one is almost up to 4,000 now.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A good number for something started.
It's still not a good number.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's still not a bad number.
You know, that's not the, that's not too bad.
And I think our YouTube account is maybe 4,000.
I think it's a little over 4,000.
I think, last I checked.
And again, pretty good for being a early, still being early in the project.
It was only, you know, it's only been, you know, four or five months or so.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the project's doing quite well.
We've got multiple projects going on, actually.
It's not just a fork of the engine anymore.
I mean, that it is still a fork, of course.
And we have a stable branch that we focus on keeping up to,
basically keeping up to par with Kado and then adding some bug fixes and things on top of it.
But we're also putting more focus on what we are currently calling experimental,
which that either might change or we might do releases with different names.
We haven't decided what direction we're taking it on that.
But our focus on that is to actually add in new features.
But do it in such a way that we could pull them over into stable if we wanted to.
Okay, so it's a testing area for anything that needs some breaking.
So that you can later decide to bring it inside the main project.
We could either bring it inside the main project.
Most likely we will do releases with that experimental fork,
which is actually a fork of our own fork, if that makes sense.
And so, yeah, we're currently building some GD script features,
some things that the community is asked for, such as structs and traits and increment,
or the things, those are three things we're working on at the moment.
That's what we have the people for.
I think structs and traits are just about done.
This brings me to a little question.
The main thing I'm thinking about this redo godo thing,
and it's the same thing that happens with many other forks of open source project,
you have a stranger relationship of cooperation, but also competition,
and that's strange to maintain.
I want to ask you how do you want to apply it as a strategy, I can say,
because on one hand, you need a competitive edge,
something different that can make people choose your project instead of the other.
But at the same time, you can copy from each other at any time.
Sure.
You can spend months implementing a feature, then it's a very good feature,
and it gets merged in the two hours into the godo.
How do you...
That's kind of the nature of open source, though.
The whole idea behind open source is that you can take it into whatever you want with it,
including pulling freshly made features and right into your own project.
Open source was made for forks.
It's kind of designed that way.
We're not...
I don't know that we're in direct competition.
Obviously, we don't have that big of a team, so what we focus on
has to be different than what they focus on.
We don't have full-time developers, although we do have some people that
put in some crazy hours still.
They can put in what they want to put in,
and they're not bound by a schedule, or in a lot of ways,
they're not even bound by...
We don't decide what they work on per se.
They get to kind of pick.
If there's something they see that they like,
that they would like to implement, they can do that.
Now, we try to pick things.
We have some core team members that make decisions on what the core team works on,
but it's not enforcing anybody to work on something that doesn't interest them.
If you do that, they lose interest if it's a job.
Exactly.
They are volunteers as long as they can decide what to do,
but if you want them to do something, you have to pay them, obviously.
There has to be interest there for people to want to work on something.
I think that's why you're starting to see some...
I don't know if you've noticed the Linux issues lately with the rust and sea maintainers.
They started to lose more sea maintainers.
They lost two the last couple of days, maybe.
I saw some news recently where a couple of sea maintainers dropped off
or decided to quit maintaining a section because they don't want to have to deal with two code bases.
They don't want to deal with rust.
I don't blame them, but because, again, they're not getting paid for this.
They're working on what they want to work on.
If it's something they don't want to work on, they just won't do it.
That's the nature of open source.
When you have people that are giving up their time freely,
they can pick and choose if they want to participate or not.
If it just doesn't interest them anymore, they don't feel needed.
They'll drop off.
It's finding a balance of interesting things to work on.
We take tons and tons of ideas from the community
and see what is feasible that we can turn into features.
We're just really getting started.
Our first probably four months was dedicated to getting off the ground.
A lot of people wondered why we didn't come out the door with brand new features.
Why aren't we so different from Gadoo?
Why should we choose you?
We're a fork. We're not a business.
We don't care.
If you would like to use us because in the existing state that it's in,
which is pretty close to Gadoo on our stable,
and we have a good community,
and we're not going to ban you for having a different opinion,
then great.
If you want to wait and see what we do down the road, good for you.
You can do that too.
We're not going to carry either way.
Redo.
We've recommended other engines.
When people have asked about default in our Discord,
yeah, I like default.
I've actually had conversations with one of the maintainers on default.
Good bunch of people.
What's that?
default is a great 2D, mostly 2D engine.
I think it's actually a 3D engine with more 2D features than anything.
I think they're starting to work.
How does it spend?
How it sounds, DEFOLD.
Okay, okay, okay, default.
Fun, fun, fun.
Yeah, it's a good engine.
Got some good people.
I don't think they have a giant amount of maintainers and developers.
It runs on consoles too.
That's actually what I had discussions with him about.
That's also one of the questions from the community I received to ask you
if there was any plan to have a video game console support,
even not through the official tools,
but maybe on DevKit, ARM Pro,
or any other open source tool chain for exporting.
With any of the console stuff,
you have to sign NDAs and all of that.
And default has a system in place so that once you are a developer,
and sign your NDAs and et cetera,
it issues you a key, I guess, some sort of key system
that they can either enter on there.
I'd have to look through my conversations,
but basically they make sure that you, the game developer,
are in the console program before they give you access to that,
to the ports.
Okay, so it's not something that you can do for homebrew games.
No, no, no.
It's official, but they're free.
They don't charge you for that access.
They just have to make sure that you're part of that program.
I don't know of any homebrew console ports out there,
but I'm sure there is.
I just don't have any, I don't really have any interest in that.
I am definitely interested in finding a way to provide console ports
for the community where that they aren't having to pay for,
but that's still kind of further out, I guess.
Plus, I don't know if you've paid much attention to consoles lately,
but I think the Nintendo Switch is probably going to that
and the Steam Deck are probably going to be the two I would personally focus on.
Microsoft or, you know, the Xbox is very much PC at this point,
so I don't really see a point, you know what I mean?
And then I'm not sure about Sony yet,
but I think Microsoft kind of wants to get out of the console hardware game,
but that's just kind of a feeling, I don't know if that's fact or not.
I also feel like they are like computers may put into a stylish box
with already made operating system,
but while the Nintendo consoles are much different from each other,
even.
Yeah, the Switches, like Nintendo is always kind of dance to their own tune,
so to speak.
They've never played the console war game with the other consoles.
They let Nintendo, they let Microsoft and Sony Duke it out,
and then they're just over here, you know, in the corner,
just doing their own shit, you know.
Sorry, I don't know if Cousin is allowed on here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we just have to put a flag.
Sorry, I just thought this.
But yeah, you know, you can cut that out if you want.
But yeah, Nintendo is very much its own beast,
and they just do their own thing.
They don't care so much about being top of the line, you know.
And they've decided that portable is kind of the way to go.
And I think they're right in that, especially with the popularity growing
of the Steam Deck and other other handhelds like it.
I think you're going to start to see a lot more people moving
to a PC gaming handheld than a box you have to, you know,
connect to your TV and leave it there.
It's a lot nicer to be able to have something that has the power to do both.
Yeah, but what you were saying actually, I was thinking,
yes, I know friends who had chosen between an Xbox and a Playstation,
but then they bought this switch anyway, because they see it as a different thing.
It's not in the same group, how to say.
Yeah, yeah, it's not in the finger.
Yeah, and you know, you want to play Nintendo games,
you have to be positioning strategy.
Yeah, yeah, so Nintendo like all of their,
and that's why Nintendo games don't tend to lose.
They don't depreciate in price, generally speaking,
because you can't play a Nintendo game for the most part.
That's not on an Nintendo.
Yeah, you can't buy a Mario game for your PC.
You can only get it for Nintendo.
They've kept the thing that used to be a draw for consoles,
which was exclusivity.
You used to be able to buy a Sony Playstation
and expect a pretty large library of only Sony Playstation games,
but Sony's finding that they're losing money by doing that.
And so they're putting their once-exclusive games on PC.
Yeah, and Microsoft is going into the exitly opposite direction
with their, how is it called, the pass?
The pass, the Xbox.
Yeah, something you can read.
The past thing, I know what you're talking about.
A pass you can pay monthly.
And you can play it on a PC or an Xbox.
And you have games also sometimes from...
I mean, you have a very, very wide variety of games.
Yes, they have games that come and go in a library,
like from different developers.
Okay, so back to redo.
We are here for death.
No, we're just here for conversation.
So, let's see the secret sheet of questions.
Oh, yeah, here.
Nice.
Have we even answered two of the questions?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Each question has branches.
So, I guess, as an official, are we going to do console ports?
The answer is, I would like to,
but it's too early to make any kind of decision on that.
Okay, so the answer might be sand pool requests.
Yes, sand pool requests.
And we will evaluate it.
I know there was a guy running Godot 3 on the 3DS.
Oh, yeah.
On YouTube, but there's enough.
It's a branch abandoned.
Oh, four times.
Yeah, it works.
Pretty nice to see it work, actually.
I didn't think it could work.
So, yeah, one of the...
You partially actually replied already to a question I had in my head.
Okay.
From the very beginning of the project.
About that having features that you spend months on,
being copied by Godot in a few minutes,
the question was,
have you discussed the possibility of going from a MIT license
to a GPL-style license?
For example, the LGPL.
I don't know if you're familiar with the various licenses.
Some of them.
Okay, okay.
Mainly because we've had people...
So, I'll say it was early on,
but one of our guys,
Jerry picked a PR from another fork.
And when doing that,
we always make sure everybody gets credit.
There's no credit loss.
It even says it when you Jerry pick code like that,
who it belonged to.
And they were very frustrated
that their work got Jerry picked to a different fork.
But you have to realize that when you're doing open source work,
your code can and most likely will get Jerry picked if it's good.
So, if anything, that should be a...
I won't say an honor, but kind of.
Like, somebody else thought your code was good enough to pick it and use it.
So, you've gone from being contributor
on one open source project to being contributor on multiple open source projects.
So, that's actually...
It's actually kind of cool.
But, yeah, it's...
Yeah, I appreciate the...
It's just the nature of open source.
If you are contributing to an open source code base,
your code is free to be used.
That's the point of it.
If you don't like that your code is used by other people,
then don't contribute it.
Yeah, I hate to sound harsh,
but that's kind of the way that open source works.
Yeah, I partially disagree with this because...
Oh, this would be interesting.
That's interesting.
I am...
You can't walk anymore then.
I don't have an account so I cannot be banned,
because I'm not comfortable.
I will be working anyway.
So, yeah, because the problem with the very permissing MIT licenses,
MIT-style licenses like the Godore redo
and many other projects too,
is that the only constraint they put
is you have to give credit and write
that the original project was MIT licensed.
But, after that, you can even turn it into proprietary software.
So, if you open an iPhone, for example,
and you go to the system settings
and information licensing and copyright
buried into 30 sub menus,
you see that even Apple,
Multibillion Company,
bases a lot of their work
on the unpaid contribution of people around the world.
And they have no obligation to keep it free and open source.
So, when you're doing a very useful library,
you hope to contribute to an open source,
to other open source projects.
It's fine.
But what happens afterwards is that if it's good,
it's an unpaid research and development team
for Apple and other big tech.
So, they base much of their work on that.
Yeah, it's not just Apple.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's an example because every big company,
Google, Apple, Microsoft,
they're all built on open source projects.
Yeah, exactly.
So, that's why I try to stick to GPL licenses.
Sure, yeah.
Because in this way,
I can make sure that my code
will help other open source projects.
And if someone wants to incorporate it
into a proprietary software,
they have to get a different license from me
and maybe pay me.
I can decide if I agree or not.
Sure, yeah.
I mean, that's the decision you get to do.
You know, get to make.
Yeah, so, what I was thinking about the redo project
was maybe a proposal that will be discarded.
Okay, sure.
What about if it was an LGPL license project?
So, these are the advantages.
You can still pull code from Godo
because you can merge MIT license code
to a LGPL code project.
Godo cannot do the reverse
on the new features you develop.
Unless they also go with a copy of the license.
And there is another problem here.
If you have the normal GPL code
and you make a game,
the entire game should be GPL licensed.
And this can be a huge disadvantage.
Exactly, exactly.
And here comes the LGPL version,
which is the one used for libraries.
That says that if you make, for example, a game
or a software that uses a library under the LGPL,
you can even make a proprietary software
as long as you keep the library itself
that free and open source.
And if you make any improvements,
you have to share them too.
What happened to Godo,
which is a MIT license,
is that Siga made a Sonic game
and then they didn't contribute
even a single line of code back.
I don't know if that's true or not.
Really?
I'd be willing to bet that
that they have some people
that have contributed code.
In fact, I've talked to one gentleman
who worked on Sonic Colors
and he was a good old contributor.
So, you know, I don't know,
maybe officially they contributed back or not,
but I'll call it proxy.
Okay, okay, okay.
Certainly.
However, I see your point about the licenses.
The tricky part is definitely
when it comes to games,
because that's the problem
that the Blender game engine had
and why people stopped using it for games.
They couldn't actually release it
without including a license
that basically licensed their games
in a way that I'm trying to remember exactly,
but it wasn't like the MIT license,
you can basically,
all you have to do is include a little file
that has an MIT license in your game,
but it's not for the game.
You license your game however you want.
With some of these other licenses,
they're more restrictive
and so they cause more headache
when it comes to licensing
something made with something.
If that makes sense.
Yeah, Blender.
I think the Blender is GPL licensed
with the full GPL,
not with the library version, let's say.
Yeah.
So I've talked to some of the guys
from the BGE fork
and they can't,
I don't think they can change the license on that.
Let me see.
No, no, no.
No, I think they can't,
because you can realize
as a copy of the software
if all the authors agree.
Right.
And they're probably not going to get.
No, also if the software is very old,
some of them might already be dead.
So they can't agree.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
So that causes problems.
And copy right through
those are very, very long.
Here, let me listen to your link.
Yeah, you may already know about it,
but let's see.
Where do I put a link?
Do you have the chat below?
Here we go.
I found the chat.
Okay.
All right.
BGE.
BGE.
Oh, it's not clickable.
Yeah, it is,
but I'm opening it on the other computer
because the video call is on the laptop
and Chrome eats all the RAM.
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't want to risk crashing anything.
No, it makes sense.
Okay, so what's this link that you sent?
The UPBGE.
This is a blender game engine.
It's a, uh, somebody fork it
and built a, basically,
excuse me, they, they've built on,
they've kind of continued development
of the game engine side of blender.
Blender used to come with a built-in game engine.
And, um,
so they've, uh,
they've continued development on the game engine part.
And I don't know if, if they,
I don't know how it works on the get side
if they continue pulling from blender
or if this is kind of a stop
at a certain, uh,
I have no idea.
Version, you know what I mean?
Um, I don't know,
but let's see what Download says.
Yeah, I might also try to track the,
it's based on blender 3.6.2.
Mm-hmm.
I guess it's still in,
it's a stable version.
Yeah, also, I see, I see,
it's in heavy development.
Last comic, uh, seven hours ago.
Wow. Nice.
Yeah.
Did I even think anyone made a fork?
Wow. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no problem.
Um, and yeah, I've,
I've played with a lot of engines
and I kind of try to keep track
of as many of them as I can.
This was one that at one point in time
I was super interested in using.
Um, but I think
when it comes down to the licensing,
I think there's still hiccups with it.
So a lot of people kind of shy away from,
uh,
any kind of license that's going to require you
to license your game
in a certain fashion
and not be able to license it how you want.
And I think that's the default choice
for not having to do that is the MIT license.
Yeah, I'm checking now that the link you sent
and yeah, that blender game engine
is also have the same,
it has the same copyright license
of the main blender project,
which is the full GPL license.
So yeah, if you make a game we did
and produce a single binary
or ship it together,
the GPL license should apply to the whole package.
Yeah, and for the way I understand it
and just,
and I could be completely wrong.
So it's okay, you know, just prefacing it.
Um, the way I understood it,
you like steam won't take games
that are licensed under GPL.
But I don't know that's a fact.
So, you know, don't quote me.
Yeah, it's maybe, it's maybe, it's maybe.
Uh, I know that,
you know, if it wasn't,
if it wasn't, uh,
but what it,
what that does is it limits the types of games you could make.
So if you require your,
if you're making like a multiplayer game,
where you have to have like anti-cheat stuff
and all this kind of thing built in,
you know, uh,
you don't want people to have access to the source code of the game.
But if your game is licensed with GPL,
that's kind of an issue.
Yeah, yeah, that's why my point was about the,
uh, LGPL, the lesser GPL,
the other type of license, yeah.
Yeah, it's a type explicitly made
so that, uh, when you merge,
for example, you make a game,
and the, uh, license the game,
how you want.
Mm-hmm.
But the engine itself
should stick to the same LGPL license.
So you cannot take the engine itself
and make it close the source.
But you can know what are you,
whatever you want with the whole video game,
as long as you comply with that.
Mm-hmm.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I'd be curious how that,
how that kind of pans out,
um,
as far as, like, using an engine,
like, UPPGE, for instance,
where the game engine is in the...
Yeah, it's all smooth.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so that,
I don't, you know, as far as I know,
there's not really a way to get around it
unless there's some kind of packaging system
you can do to close things off,
but, um,
but yeah, I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
Looks pretty cool, though.
Ha-ha.
Uh, it would be nice to have a game engine inside, uh,
inside your three modeling software.
Ha-ha, yeah.
But maybe it was too much,
even for Blender,
because I really like that Blender
is a five different programs in one.
Even Adobe had to do five different programs
to...
Yeah.
Uh, one for each part of the pipeline
of the production pipeline.
Uh, while Blender has the entire production pipeline
of a movie inside the same program
with the same file format,
with the same license,
with the same tool,
with the same shortcuts.
That's so wonderful.
Yeah.
You can literally go from sketching
to drawing textures,
to modeling,
to, uh,
even video editing inside Blender.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, pretty well, huh?
Absolutely, absolutely.
So,
uh, one of the other questions from the community,
uh,
is,
let's say I want to use, uh, redo.
Okay, one doubt,
two doubts people might have,
is,
uh, what are the skills of the team,
so that we are sure you can handle
this, uh, big codebase?
And, yeah, it's a very good question,
I can say.
And, uh,
and also,
making a game can take years.
So,
uh, people want to have the engine
stick around for enough time
that the game is complete.
What's your plan for,
for long-term sustainability of the project?
So, that's actually why we made a stable version,
instead of just blasting off
with new features here and there.
Um, because when you do that,
you, on one hand,
you kind of destabilize things where,
um, you know,
because everybody's expecting new,
new this, new that,
but what if, you know,
what if you,
um, if you build all these new features
and then you lose the people that built them,
or you don't have people that can maintain them,
you know, all these kinds of things.
That's why we built a stable branch,
so that people can come and,
you know, and use,
uh, use Redot
and not have to worry about
their projects
getting bored by something we did.
Does that make sense?
So,
when we make changes,
currently, when we've made changes,
they've been somewhat small,
but, you know, quality of life things.
Excuse me.
Um,
and the changes haven't been so big that they broke core.
So, anything that we do with stable,
uh, we make sure that it doesn't break the core,
so that,
if someone brings their project
directly in from Godot,
it will work.
You are still coming.
So, you have still compatibility with the main project so far.
Right.
So, we're keeping stable, compatible.
Okay.
Okay. So,
then we have this complete other project over here
on the left or right,
whichever side you want,
whichever side you prefer,
where we can make bigger changes,
you know, and try things out
and see what could work,
what might not work,
we can break things, you know.
And then we're not worried about breaking people's projects,
because they're not
using
our, you know,
our tests ground.
And then, you know,
we release some features on it
that work, that work well.
Um, we'll do a build of it
and that people can play around with it
and test it out more,
see, you know, if it continues to work,
see where we need to make changes,
things of that nature.
But those will be, you know,
new features, things that don't exist currently.
Um, things of that nature.
I think it makes more sense to do that
than it does for us to just
tear up stable
and then expect people to come over,
you know,
hopefully,
we're around a long time and,
you know, continue to do this.
But, uh, if we've broken stuff,
you know, and we don't have somebody
to maintain something and then it breaks,
well, then people are screwed.
So, our
current plan is to keep stable,
stable, you know,
keep it up with, keep it,
keep it up with existing, you know,
make some quality of life changes
and things on top that we can do
that won't break core.
And then we have a complete other project
that we can do more groundbreaking things with.
Um, we've got a
launcher in the works that we're,
you know, we're working on,
uh, which will have like project
management and a bunch of other stuff,
uh,
that it's currently planned, but not
in a state to, you know, discuss yet.
Um, we've got, uh,
uh,
GD script stuff we're working on,
which I think I mentioned earlier.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, which some of those are, are getting
close to finish to a point where we can
do a release and test them out and make sure
they're, you know, they function,
um, properly.
Uh, and, uh,
yeah, we're just going to keep building up from there.
So we're still kind of at an early stage
as far as
doing things outside
the realm of stable.
But, you know,
we're making progress.
Yeah, I think I will play with the GD script
improvements, because
one of the main
improvements in
with the recent GD script is that they had, uh,
uh,
better type hints.
Uh, I really like a strict typing.
So even in GD script, I tried,
I tried to type everything,
uh, other types to every variable.
And, uh,
yeah.
Yeah, types, types are important.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Um,
so I recently discovered a fork of
GD, uh,
where they've built
Kotlin into it.
Uh,
very much how, how the C sharp,
um, system works.
Um, so,
I was pretty excited about that,
because I love Kotlin.
Um,
I tried it once,
but only because I was forced to
withdraw the app development, but
sure.
I like that kind of the thing, but, um,
I thought it was cool to see Kotlin more.
Um, and I like types.
So,
yeah, I like types so much that I use rust.
Usually.
Yeah,
it's a pain in the neck when, uh,
you have to fight the compiler.
You're one of them guys trying to force rust
into the links, Colonel, aren't you?
Actually,
I'm quite
a typical, because I also really love C.
Nice.
C is, um,
it's so clean.
Yeah.
It is.
It doesn't need any changing.
Yeah, it needs.
I mean, if there was,
I tried to check every, uh,
improved C language,
but they are all dead, basically.
Uh, or they had too many features.
While,
so I just keep plugging along.
Yeah, I really dream something that, uh,
is as simple as C,
and they only fix the, uh,
the very needed, uh,
little changes,
like having a different operator
for, uh,
as you, the different operator
is useful for the audience,
uh,
that when you declare a variable, uh,
with the malloc, for example,
or open a file,
you can write there,
write a different operator,
and, uh,
and write the closed statements,
and they get run automatically
at the end of the scope,
both if you, uh,
if the scope ends, uh,
normally,
both if you have an early return,
a condition, uh,
the memory is freed up,
anyway, and that's a very,
very simple, uh,
change,
and, and, uh,
I read they were actually thinking
to add it to the standard,
but they eventually,
eventually, uh, didn't.
Yeah, uh, yeah, it's a very simple change
that, uh,
is very compatible with how C works.
Sure.
And, yeah,
I really like C.
The main metaphor with C is, uh,
let me check a translation, sorry.
No, you're okay.
Um, first need to think the Italian word,
and translate.
What, uh, what kind of software do you work on?
Ah, I make, uh,
museum multimedia installations.
Okay.
So, I do a lot of, uh,
things from scratch,
and I even used Godot, uh,
for, uh,
interactive thing with, uh,
four projectors on, uh, walls,
and sensors.
And, uh,
while other stuff was made,
directly in C,
they were able with many lamps,
and, uh,
there were some, uh,
audio recording from the actors of a theater, uh,
where this table was put into.
Yeah.
And, when you hover the hand over one of the lamps,
uh, an audio starts,
and that lamp, uh,
starts, uh,
changing brightness,
uh,
proportionally to the volume of the voice,
um, of the actor.
So, you have this blinking table,
with, uh,
each lamp, uh,
being driven by the audio volume of,
uh, voice,
and that was, uh,
running C.
Okay.
Uh,
nice.
Yeah, so,
for me, C is like an artisan making a statue.
With, uh,
yeah, by hand,
it's a really long work,
a lot of expertise,
but the final result is so,
optimized that,
uh,
a CNC machine would be automatic,
but it won't reach the same level of optimization.
Wow, that's cool.
That's how easy.
Have you played around with the
internals of the engine at all?
Okay.
Also, C++ is, uh,
I stay away from C++.
Yeah, it's, uh,
not my biggest, uh,
it's not fun for me.
Yeah, because,
they did so much stuff that, uh,
uh, uh,
even people I know that
use C++ at work,
they stick to C++, uh,
uh, uh,
20?
Or, uh,
some, uh,
even ELA,
or, um,
yeah, I think it goes on 17, I think.
Yeah, or maybe they use a new version,
but then they forbid internally
to use some of the features,
so they don't have all the features,
all the features
available,
at the same time,
for all the developers combined,
because the complexity
is, uh,
so I'll give you a little bit of, uh,
I don't know,
I guess, some internal discussion
just for fun.
So one of the things that we've been
sort of just kicking around,
and it's just, like, rough idea,
uh, one of the guys that,
one of the C++ guys
brought it up,
and, uh, we've just been kicking it,
kicking the can to see.
We think
about, um,
let me think how to,
how to put it, exactly.
Um, basically writing it in C,
so that it makes it easier to add other languages, um,
to the engine, um,
instead of, so,
are you familiar with, uh,
with, um,
OpenGL?
Unbeads.
Okay, so OpenGL is written in C,
and so a lot of people can take that,
and, um,
bind other languages to it,
so I've used it with Kotlin and Java,
um, and things like that,
makes it much easier,
uh, so,
we've been kind of talking about,
seeing if there's maybe a way to do that,
with, uh, Kado,
um,
writing a wrapper of its C.
Yeah, it may be a good way,
because, uh, even in one using Rust,
uh, uh,
uh, interfacing with C is easy,
because it's, uh,
you have to pay attention,
but it is predictable,
and also,
every feature of Rust
can be represented
as a C construct,
while, uh,
complex Rust constructs,
are not, uh,
one-to-one,
equal to complex,
uh, uh,
C++ constructs,
so the only way to go from one to another,
uh, reliably, is to,
uh,
convert it into a
some low-level C,
and very compatible stuff,
and then,
see it on the other side,
uh,
uh,
there are some tools to try to automate
the interaction with C++,
yeah, uh,
but yeah, I think it's called ABI,
uh, no, sorry,
something binary interface,
I can remember,
uh,
I'll see if I can google it,
application binary interface,
application binary interface,
I think,
and,
and that's how,
I think, uh,
programs can be called, uh,
things in libraries,
compiled,
and, uh,
send data,
and interacting some way,
but I'm not an expert on this,
so maybe someone in the combat,
will, uh,
help clarify.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, I think, uh,
tell me how wacky an idea it is,
and,
yeah, either that, or they'll
tell me how wacky an idea that is.
Yeah, so thank you for your time,
and, uh,
for your insights into the project,
so, where people can download it,
and, uh,
let's say,
hide to the audience,
with, uh, uh,
a motto of redo,
or,
Sure.
So you can,
you can get redo,
redo, redo,
at, uh,
re.engine.org,
um,
I'll send you the links if you made them.
Um, we also,
uh,
we also have a,
I think a beta android version on itch,
um,
so we've had a bunch of people get it from there,
we're still trying to get,
it put up on Google Play,
um, I think we're getting pretty close, though.
Um, yeah, um,
I think,
redo underscore engine on,
xTwitter,
and,
I mean, we're,
we're on a couple other places, too.
I think we're on blue sky.
Uh, we're on rumble,
also, and YouTube.
Um, but yeah,
that's, that's pretty much it, I think.
So, yeah, drop in, say hello,
you can, you can tag at
endeavours, um,
A-N-D-E-R-V-S.
I think I spelled it right.
I spelled it wrong, A-N-D.
You can send the link,
and I can write it in the, uh,
A-N-D-E-V-R-S.
Yeah, come on.
I'm also on x,
and, uh, I do have a YouTube channel that,
is not super active yet, um,
my podcast is more, has, uh,
more on, like, Spotify and stuff like that.
So, I haven't, uh,
I haven't put up a lot of episodes on YouTube.
Okay, so what's the, uh,
redo motto, this log-un?
The, uh,
redo-un?
Your game, your rules.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you to anyone, everyone,
listening, and, uh, see you next time.
Bye, thank you, Andrew.
See you, thank you.
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