28 KiB
The queue
The queue is necessary as "Hacker Public Radio ... releases shows every weekday Monday to Friday."
Why release like this ?
Back in 2010, shows were getting released on an ad hoc basis. Some days there were as many as two or even three shows released per day. More often than not though, there was no show at all. As time went on the period between no shows increased. After a time it was unclear if HPR was alive. This was reflected in a steady decline of subscribers.
One of the policies that we decided on was that "one show a day - every day, builds trust and retains listeners." This has turned out to be true based on the steadily increasing subscriber base, and since then lots of research has been done that supports it.
- youtube: "A consistent, sustainable release schedule is critical when building and fulfilling audience expectations...."
- spotify: "When podcasters don't stick to a steady schedule, it can be the first sign of podfading, when a show becomes less and less regular until it eventually disappears."
Should it matter ? No.
Does it matter ? Yes.
For those that prefer to have the shows as soon as they are posted, we also have a Future Feed.
Scheduling
Hacker Public Radio releases shows on a very regular schedule and ideally the flow of shows in would match the flow of shows out.
We see however that the
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https://davecturner.github.io/2016/12/01/rate-limiting.html
Copyright © David Turner
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
Can I ask you to do something for me. Please leave 2 weeks between the shows unless it's an interview or a urgent show. I know you have thoughts on this but filling the next free slot is not the best approach for keeping the queue filled.
I go into the logic behind this in this show https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps/hpr4195/index.html. Essentially its managing unstable equilibrium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_equilibrium.
Having no open slots means that hosts think that the project is healthy and they don't send in a show.
Having too many open slots gives the feeling that HPR is failing as a project so they don't send in a show.
If you already posted shows, then don't be afraid to leave empty slots. You already have done your bit, it's up to the rest of them to help out.
Over the last year we have been implementing the reserve queue to fill empty slots and it's been working very well. We have seen several hosts send in a show as a result of the announcement we add reminding people that "HPR needs listeners to contribute shows in order to survive".
Scheduling Guidelines
- New hosts, Interviews, and other time critical shows should use the first free slot.
- Always try and fill any free slots that are available in the upcoming two weeks.
- When the queue is filling up then leave some slots free for new contributors.
- Post non urgent shows into the first empty week.
- If you are uploading a series of shows then post them one every two weeks.
- If you have a non urgent show that is timeless, then add it to the Reserve Queue https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.html#reserve_queue.
https://repo.anhonesthost.net/HPR/hpr_documentation/raw/branch/main/workflow /SchedulingGuidlinesFlowChart.odg
History of scheduling
To begin with hosts signed up for a particular day based on a published calendar. This failed as hosts could not meet the scheduled time, or found the pressure too much.
Then shows were released that were available on the FTP server. This lead to arguments as there appeared to be no order to the when the shows were posted.
Then we switched to a first come first out method. This lead to having too many shows from the one host or on one topic, where a hosts posted a series of shows at the one time. This also lead to arguments about time critical shows been left too late.
The followed many attempts to
, and arguments abotu
, and seemingly in random order.
So we need some way to control the uppredictable nature of getting shows, with the steady
We haven't missed a day since 2010-09-21 and sometimes that is the only thing that keeps the Janitors going.
Summary:
Fact: HPR can only control the release rate and has no control over the rate at which shows are submitted. Sometimes there are very few shows in the queue resulting in problems for the admins in getting shows to air. Other times there are a lot of shows in the queue resulting in hosts waiting a long time for their show to air.
On 8/28/21 08:12, e8hffff wrote:
It's painful to only have one show a week day, and that's double pain if only a short podcast. I regularly start the day off with listening to podcasts but recently I unsubscribed from a bigger creator (Jupiter Broadcasting) for dishing on freedom fighters of COVID lockdowns, so, I'm now lucky to have one show pop up a day to listen to. Not enough. I can't see why HPR is restricting the flow of information. It's crazy. People can limit themselves if they find they are overwhelmed.
Cheers e8hffff.
From ken at fallon.ie Sun Aug 29 07:22:20 2021 From: ken at fallon.ie (Ken Fallon) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 09:22:20 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Hpr Digest, Vol 155, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: 14821733.4WXcVoXQB2@masterhost References: mailman.1.1630159417.109199.hpr_hackerpublicradio.org@hackerpublicradio.org 14821733.4WXcVoXQB2@masterhost Message-ID: 503ee371-44a0-6d76-b999-ca0aaa62464d@fallon.ie
Hi e8hffff,
I'm the Janitor in question let me reply. First thanks for posting this to the mail list. As I said in the show the Janitors do not decide HPR policy, this mail list does[1].
It's painful to only have one show a week day, and that's double pain if only a short podcast.
You point is a valid one, and is often brought up for discussion. The most recent was April of this year, which was triggered by an article by hedorah[2]. Have a read of that discussion and pop back here with your thoughts.
To address that point, we have long had the option to ignore the dictates of the evil Janitors ;-) Just go to "Get Shows > Advanced Settings[2]" and you can get the shows as soon as they are posted. Remember that if a show is posted incorrectly and we need to repost it, you will probably miss the new release. But no harm to have another pair of ears checking the future freed for us.
Don't forget we have 3996 older shows ready right now. That's 76 days 12 hours 3 minutes 31 seconds right there. Assuming you listen for 12 hours a day you are covered until Saturday, 29 January 2022. By which time there will be another 110 shows for you.
You can also help out by adding tags[4] and updating the shownotes for those shows.
It's great to see you are intending to contribute some shows. If you run into any issues please get in touch. Any tips on the process from a new contributor is great as we are always trying to make it easier to post shows.
[1] http://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance [2] http://hackerpublicradio.org/advanced_rss_settings.php [3] http://hackerpublicradio.org/syndication.php [4] http://hackerpublicradio.org/report_missing_tags.php
-- Regards,
Ken Fallon (G5KEN) http://kenfallon.com http://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php?hostid=30
From ken at fallon.ie Sat Jan 20 21:25:54 2024 From: ken at fallon.ie (Ken Fallon) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 22:25:54 +0100 Subject: [Hpr] Happy new year - should we continue with HPR ? In-Reply-To: d4199b4c-ace4-46f4-a653-60dba980c147@jezra.net References: c10b8e8c-4d86-4bdc-b847-88b5c5889c21@fallon.ie d4199b4c-ace4-46f4-a653-60dba980c147@jezra.net Message-ID: feb17d42-9f85-4783-a196-278b976aa88d@fallon.ie
Hi All,
The reason lostnbronx did the show "hpr0560 :: Old soldiers", was because HPR was releasing shows on an ad hoc unpredictable schedule. People were unsubscribing, other podcasts were asking if HPR had finished or not. In fact that was the first time I asked is HPR RIP https://lists.hackerpublicradio.com/pipermail/hpr/2010-September/000109.html ?
My feeling has always been that a consistent release schedule builds trust in podcasts. Since then lots of research has been done that supports it. Eg: youtube https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/13616979 "A consistent, sustainable release schedule is critical when building and fulfilling audience expectations...." , spotify https://podcasters.spotify.com/resources/learn/create/podcast-schedule "When podcasters don't stick to a steady schedule, it can be the first sign of podfading, when a show becomes less and less regular until it eventually disappears." Should it matter ? No. Does it matter ? Yes.
In the case of HPR, we release "New episodes every weekday Monday through Friday". You might have no clue who the host will be, what it's going to be about, if it's going to have potty language in it or not, but you do know that "you can tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode". We haven't missed a day since 2010-09-21 and sometimes that is the only thing that keeps the Janitors going.
We have 427 hosts and 240 slots, so one show a year is more than enough to handle the schedule. Going to fewer release days would not address the problem of getting shows in the first place, it just prolongs the inevitable. So no my personal feeling is that we should not release less shows when the queue is low, nor should we release more shows when the queue is full, which as has also been suggested. That said if the consensus is that that should be changed then this is the place to discuss it.
For now the compact with the Janitors is simple, "You keep sending in shows and we'll keep posting them. When there are no more shows we'll close down HPR with dignity." Hopefully that won't be for ages yet but it's up to you all to decide. So if you want your say Vote Early https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/calendar.php and Vote Often https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/request.php?id=9999. (There is no time limit on the voting either ;-) )
-- Regards,
From gort.klaatu at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 13:15:09 2010 From: gort.klaatu at gmail.com (Klaatu) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:15:09 -0400 Subject: [Hpr] HPR RIP ? In-Reply-To: AANLkTi=YB-b8B1bD2boEwPZaKXxgBbOVYEqV50Cwgcb8@mail.gmail.com References: AANLkTi=4YhEXjM3MxP=ufkgwWqqf0iGB=Nc+PF2R6eyG@mail.gmail.com AANLkTi=YB-b8B1bD2boEwPZaKXxgBbOVYEqV50Cwgcb8@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: AANLkTik9aKriHZN7ZfaBsU6SGRHV_k2_-2PFmx5JVJat@mail.gmail.com
Well, just got back from Ohio Linux Fest, where we had a wildly successful Hacker Public Radio panel, with SigFLUP, Dave Yates, Dann from TLLTS, and Lord_Drachenblut as panelists. People were into it, excited about it, and those who had never heard of it were really excited about the idea of a community show.
I believe HPR is actually a lot healthier than you think it is. i can't access the FTP server (my IP address gets blocked frequently, apparently due to an evil automagic iptable rule?) but if I could, I'd tell you exactly how many episodes were sitting there waiting to be posted. I know for a fact that I have at least 9 (probably a low estimate) SELF interviews that have been sitting there for 3 months. SigFLUP's field trip (ep 567 i think?) had been sitting for a month before posted. Insert other examples here.
I think what really 'needs' to happen is that the shows that exist need to be posted.
So...the way I see it, either:
- Someone who is not going to be blocked needs to log in and post episodes.
- The posting process needs to be semi-automated or greatly simplified
- I need ssh access or to get at least one ip address that I would log in from NOT blocked.
And then HPR would start looking a lot healthier.
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Arron Finnon wrote:
Howdie Guys,
Late to the party on this thread but hell. I'm in the middle of trying to set up a week long series on HPR with a live show at the end, just trying to draw some people in.
TBH my whole issue is always about releases. I have stuff backed up in there for last years SFD (this years is on Saturday)
I have to be honest and say that IMHO is what holds us back, lots of great content not knowing if/when is a pain. My suggestion not matter how crazy it sounds is to let hosts push their own shows out on HPR at a rate they are happy with. Yeah some days HPR fans are going to have a bumper day, and some days its going to be quite as hell. I'm not saying there isn't any creases to iron out with this idea, but put it this way if you've done over 5 shows surely your trusted enough to push a show out when ever, or dare i say dust down the calendar and bring it back.
My 2 Cents, and you bet your ass you've been over charged
Finux
p.s just realized chaining from googlemail.com to gmail.com is not so cool for mailman
Hpr mailing list Hpr at hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
From ken.fallon at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 05:49:14 2011 From: ken.fallon at gmail.com (Ken Fallon) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:49:14 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Scheduling the same host or series in one week In-Reply-To: 4E7A20CF.9020204@osource.org References: CAK-oqQb+xiMzSk_Q7zE=sevTkLvwZnAn38jDTPUqjt9y9dHU7g@mail.gmail.com CAKyPAbPw3CYV3aNPLca3+kR7imyYu1yK=omrZxqwAfPa1d+muQ@mail.gmail.com 4E7A20CF.9020204@osource.org Message-ID: CAK-oqQa7NUDV1AvgEZ3ziEW_E9V4PHKJ+HZOEdmYCu-Wy81w2Q@mail.gmail.com
Thanks everyone for your feedback it is really helping to make the scheduling better. I think that the Xorg interviews fall outside this discussion as they are regular series and are not time critical. They will be released one a week just like klaatu's series that are in the queue now. That has the advantage that our listeners get to hear the series regularly but not so often that it's the only content for several days in a row.
One important point that I neglected to mention in the email (I think I covered it a few times on the discussions on the community news shows) is that the rules need to be clear, transparent, fair and most of all possible to code. The rules as they stand now are:
if release_show_on = today then post else if show_scheduled_slot = today then post else if host_num_of_episodes = 0 then post else for each show time_in_queue if host or series != in_last_5_days then post next
On 09/20/2011 01:35 PM, Joshua "lowtek" Burton wrote:
I think it would be nice to have a quick release of episodes related to a recent event. ?Especially if it's reviews, reports, etc. ?I think some interviews may not be as time relevant but some might be.
From ken.fallon at gmail.com Fri May 4 11:09:56 2012 From: ken.fallon at gmail.com (Ken Fallon) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:09:56 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Friday News Show In-Reply-To: 4FA38BBE.8010404@gmail.com References: CAK-oqQaEt0WT4Su+t09Q0HeKCFYAWRHtNnxua3ST0cwzoVZZ0g@mail.gmail.com 4FA0417F.8030604@zwilnik.com 4FA38BBE.8010404@gmail.com Message-ID: CAK-oqQZhbZ-4Whph+sAwCiOJsnPGkgXwSVXvPtZZA0Cw-oLhTw@mail.gmail.com
Here are the agreed scheduling rules
- Time critical (Where the host has requested a show to be posted at a particular time or that the show contains newsworthy information.)
- Scheduled Slots (Where a host has been assigned a regular day to release a show.)
- New Hosts (In order to encourage new hosts we will prioritize shows submitted from new hosts so they can experience the excitment of podcasting.)
- HPR Content on a First in First Out basis.
From ken.fallon at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 08:39:17 2012 From: ken.fallon at gmail.com (Ken Fallon) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:39:17 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Vote on removing non HPR shows. In-Reply-To: CAD_dxjUCLgN9Prwi2Ff9O66ck=O_our8E4tKWXrN5Oc+ncBJ1w@mail.gmail.com References: mailman.1.1349809202.12104.hpr_hackerpublicradio.org@hackerpublicradio.org CAD_dxjUCLgN9Prwi2Ff9O66ck=O_our8E4tKWXrN5Oc+ncBJ1w@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: 20121010103917.299288ea@dell
TOPIC CHANGE from "Re: [Hpr] Hpr Digest, Vol 49, Issue 2"
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 23:08:39 -0500 Fifty OneFifty wrote:
Ken,
I don't know what to say (though I have made what I thought were humorous comments on other podcasts). I submitted a full week's worth of content in July (3 original shows and two syndicated I was involved in) that are still a good two weeks out of showing up on HPR. I loved all you original stuff from OggCamp, and catching up on everything from last year, but I think we are getting a rep for stale shows you can find elsewhere (no intended offense to our syndication partners). Expect a show on my ODroidX (which I am sure many folks are tired of hearing about) AND gv-20 very soon
5150
Hi 5150,
I appreciate where you are coming from but if you look at the queue you'll see that it's made up of shows from what I'd consider HPR regulars.
Ahuka will have released 12 shows this year. Frank_Bell 7 shows this year mrgadgets 4 shows this year (21 last year) Seetee 5 shows this year sigflup 6 shows this year 5150 5 shows this year, not counting your appearances on the HPR Community news
The only way to eliminate the queue quicker is to open the flood gates and let everything out as soon as it comes in. Which would mean a flood of shows a few times a year.
"Either we release one show a day, five times per week, or we release them all at once?" Can't there be some middle path here?
From ken.fallon at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 20:07:59 2012 From: ken.fallon at gmail.com (Ken Fallon) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 22:07:59 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Vote on removing non HPR shows. In-Reply-To: 8250988.V5dQfOsaul@bunnies References: mailman.1.1349809202.12104.hpr_hackerpublicradio.org@hackerpublicradio.org CAD_dxjUCLgN9Prwi2Ff9O66ck=O_our8E4tKWXrN5Oc+ncBJ1w@mail.gmail.com 20121010103917.299288ea@dell 8250988.V5dQfOsaul@bunnies Message-ID: 20121010220759.61c65f8e@dell
[start personal opinion] As a reminder, the reason we started releasing non HPR shows was that there was no shows at all to release. The reason there were no shows was that we went from one show a day, to a few a week to a few a month until our listers (who are our contributers after all) began to say "is HPR dead ?". And whatever about contributing to an active network, I guarantee you that no one wants to release shows to a network that is dead. This is exactly what happened during 2010. - see attached.
I believe we also have a responsibility to our listeners to bring them one show a day. The history of podcasts will show you that a regular schedule builds trust in the network. That trust was hard won back and it took a lot of work from a lot of people to get us through 2011 to a stage where people are contributing again.
I just went through the queue and commented out the material that was not created "solely" for HPR. That brings us down to 9 shows and we need 49 to get to the end of the year. Sure we are going to get some shows from this appeal but that will buy us another month or so. Then I'll be back to begging klaatu and Mr. Gadgets for contributions.
What I want is a steady stream of HPR listeners contributing shows at the same rate that we release them. I am open to any and all suggestions to promote that.
From ken.fallon at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 09:29:12 2012 From: ken.fallon at gmail.com (Ken Fallon) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 11:29:12 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Vote on removing non HPR shows. In-Reply-To: op.wlziajsd2031o5@localhost References: mailman.1.1349809202.12104.hpr_hackerpublicradio.org@hackerpublicradio.org CAD_dxjUCLgN9Prwi2Ff9O66ck=O_our8E4tKWXrN5Oc+ncBJ1w@mail.gmail.com 20121010103917.299288ea@dell 8250988.V5dQfOsaul@bunnies 20121010220759.61c65f8e@dell CAKAng83GivSY1vTma81fw-fgTtyFnKekK476_Lbs7nmuFrgC_A@mail.gmail.com op.wlziajsd2031o5@localhost Message-ID: 20121011112912.4ca105cb@dell
Speaking as a HPR Admin, we will facilitate whatever the community decides.
The following is Ken's personal opinion and can/should be challenged
Changing the release schedule
As a community member I disagree strongly for the following reasons (in no particular order)
As stated before we have made a commitment to our listeners to release five shows a week. Each time we stick to what we do we cement the idea that HPR is a regular trusted community that stands by what it says.
I already get complaints from people that we produce too many shows (See Fab's OggCamp interview). We are already telling people to delete the show not the feed. To make that easier for people, hosts will soon be asked to fill in a short summary of their show. That will be automatically converted from text to speech and added to the front of every episode.
It doesn't fix the problem of people not wanting to hear recycled material on the HPR feed.
Two additional shows a week, means that someone needs to prepare (check the audio, add intros/outro, add show notes add ID tags, update the queue list, email the new hosts, etc etc). That can be done ahead of time but posting needs to be done every day. That means you are committing someone to connecting to HPR from where ever they are to confirm that all the feeds are working, that each episode has been published correctly, that each show can be played from start to finish, that the website is rendering the show notes correctly. They will need to do this even if they are on Vacation, on a business trip, are abroad, are on a unstable Internet connection. Even if we automate it (more on that later), the responsibility has increased and the checks and fixes all still need to be done. We do this every week day but I for one am not willing to commit my weekends as well, many of which already are full with editing or recording HPR shows.
A five day a week release schedule means that the show numbers are predictable. Monday show ends in a 1 or a 6, Tuesdays 2 or a 7, etc. This is incredibly handy when you are barely awake.
From ken.fallon at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 14:03:33 2012 From: ken.fallon at gmail.com (Ken Fallon) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:03:33 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Vote on removing non HPR shows. In-Reply-To: 5078154D.2010509@zwilnik.com References: mailman.1.1349809202.12104.hpr_hackerpublicradio.org@hackerpublicradio.org CAD_dxjUCLgN9Prwi2Ff9O66ck=O_our8E4tKWXrN5Oc+ncBJ1w@mail.gmail.com 20121010103917.299288ea@dell 8250988.V5dQfOsaul@bunnies 20121010220759.61c65f8e@dell CAKAng83GivSY1vTma81fw-fgTtyFnKekK476_Lbs7nmuFrgC_A@mail.gmail.com op.wlziajsd2031o5@localhost 20121011112912.4ca105cb@dell 5078154D.2010509@zwilnik.com Message-ID: CAK-oqQYoZY2=JowsChai3BMFr96PtA3W9F0Oqpva=G5GHLeJ0g@mail.gmail.com
Hi All,
I want to thank everyone for providing feedback on the current state of affairs, this discussion has been fantastic to watch and participate in. I wanted to take the time to summarise the situation as I see it and I'd appreciate people commenting on whither this is correct or not from your point of view.
Summary: HPR releases shows on a very regular schedule and ideally the flow of shows in would match the flow of shows out.
Fact: HPR can only control the release rate and has no control over the rate at which shows are submitted. Sometimes there are very few shows in the queue resulting in problems for the admins in getting shows to air. Other times there are a lot of shows in the queue resulting in hosts waiting a long time for their show to air.
The issue that needs to be solved: We need a way to regulate the queue.
The current solution: We have used syndicated content to reduce the amount of shows released. This has failed as it has not regulated the queue.
The Solution (Too many shows in the queue): Release HPR shows at a rate of five shows a week. We have seen that a rate of 3 shows a week will fill up the queue and 5 shows a week will empty it.
The Solution (Too few shows in the queue): Increase the number of backup shows in the queue. If these shows start playing then the admins will have some time to muster new shows.
With that in mind I propose changing the scheduling rules to:
Time critical: A show contains newsworthy information of importance to the community in general.
Reserved Show Number: Where a host has reserved a special show number (eg HPR1000).
Reserved Date: Where a host has reserved a special date ( eg April 1 ).
Reserved Block: Where a host has attended a festival and can reserve up to 5 slots within two weeks of the event.
New Hosts: In order to encourage new hosts we will prioritize their first show.
Shows From the High Priority Queue: HPR Content based on the host with the oldest previous release date.
Shows From the Normal Priority Queue: HPR Content based on the host with the oldest previous release date.
Shows From the Low Priority Queue: HPR Content based on the host with the oldest previous release date.
Shows From the Procrastination Queue: HPR Content based on the host with the oldest previous release date. Anyone known to procrastinate will have the option of uploading an embarrassing show to this queue. So long as the queue remains filled then the show will never be played.
Play the HPR Last Show Episode: If this show is played, then the community has no desire for HPR to continue. Sync with Archive.org and Shutdown HPR.
Notes: Reservations should be made well in advance. Allocation of regular slots will need to be approved by the mailing list.
OK What do you think ?
Ken.
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From ken at fallon.ie Mon Jun 13 07:05:15 2022 From: ken at fallon.ie (Ken Fallon) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 09:05:15 +0200 Subject: [Hpr] Reserve Queue Message-ID: a484d02e-c514-650b-8887-d735ba4f9e40@fallon.ie
In today's show the Janitors discuss how the erratic feast/famine nature of the queue may be helped by filling free slots in the main feed from a reserve queue.
- The current Emergency Queue would be renamed to the Reserve Queue.
- If a free slot in the calendar is not filled in time, then a show will be used from the Reserve Queue.
- Shows will be taken from the Reserve Queue on a first in first out basis.
- Hosts can either schedule a show for a particular slot or have their shows added to the Reserve Queue.
- Eventually we will we work on a dedicated upload option, but for now hosts can pick a random slot and just make a note in the show notes that the show is intended for the Reserve Queue.
Thoughts ?
Why yes Ken, one thing springs to mind. Should you not first pick hosts who have not submitted a shows recently ?
Gosh Ken. That is a good point, I'll need to think about that.
Anyone else ?