hpr-knowledge-base/hpr_transcripts/hpr4571.txt

Episode: 4571
Title: Data processing retrospective
Source: https://hub.hackerpublicradio.org/ccdn.php?filename=/eps/hpr4571/hpr4571.mp3
Transcribed: 2026-07-31 16:14:12 (official HPR transcript)

---

This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 4571, for 2026-02-09
Today's show is entitled, "Data processing retrospective"
The host is Lee and the duration is 00:43:20
The flag is Clean, and the license is CC-BY-SA
The summary is "Lee talks to his Mum about her history with computers"
Hi, I'm Lee. I'm here today with my mom Angela. Hi Angela.
Hi, Lee. I'm here today with Lee.
I'm going to ask a bit about her experience over the years of computers
from their earliest evolution until today.
What's your first impression or I did when did you first hear the word computer?
I think the first time, mind you, I'm probably read something about them,
but it seemed more like fiction when I read it was like big brother is watching you
and things like that. Right. So did you see that on a TV or anything like that?
No, I think we just sort of studied there at school.
Okay. They're from books.
Okay. Any book that you can think of?
Yeah, 1994.
All right, so really was Georgia or well, 1994?
Yeah, that's right.
The idea that they would have screens and they'd be watching you for the screen.
Yes, yes.
And like, of course, that's never going to happen.
There's never going to be a screen that can look back at you as there.
No. No.
Yeah, but, no, 1994, maybe, but, in the early 2024,
when did you first encounter computers in the workplace?
Was it taking messages to Charles' house for British telecoms?
All right, so what sort of job was that?
It was like a messenger.
It was a clerical assistant, but they used to send me on messages.
And I had to take what they called data.
Yeah.
And I had to take the data to be put into the computer.
What did it look like?
It was just a pile of paper, and then I used to take it.
So was it written there?
Yeah, it was written sort of out.
So I don't print it.
Yeah.
And I had to take it to Charles' house and give it to somebody who would be named.
And then they would take me through a big room that wasn't allowed to have any dust in it.
Yeah.
Now, I think I had to take my shoes off to go in there.
And there were two enormous spools of tape that looked really like a small tape.
You used to have in the tape.
Like magnetic tape?
magnetic tape, yes.
And it would be spinning around making a bit of a noise.
Did these machines have like blinking lights?
I didn't know to.
So it was mainly the main thing about them was the rills of magnetic tape.
Yes.
So the main thing that you would do that was happening was this day or that it got
was printed typed onto the paper.
Yes.
It was how it then had to be transcribed in some way onto the paper to get onto the magnetic tape.
Yes.
You know who was doing that or how that happened?
No, I didn't really know.
Do you think there was someone typing it?
How did you retip it?
Or do you think somehow it could look at what was on the paper?
Right.
I don't think it might have to guess.
I would say that it looked so sort of mechanical printing that I think it could be fed into
the computer and sort of translate it into adults.
What would you know what this information actually represented?
What it was doing?
Well, for us we were doing a telephones, you know, telephones bills and things like that.
Right, I can.
Yeah.
So if one had to land in those days.
Yes.
Because some people might not even know what land by this now,
that is, if one had to, everyone had to phone and it didn't have buttons and a dial.
Yes, that's right.
And so British telecom in this country, anyway, was the only company that would provide you
a phone and like, you got it through them.
Well, you got it through no one and everyone had one, you know?
Yes.
Well, no, everyone had to take some people where she didn't.
No, we used to where I used to live.
We used to go to the grounds that shall pay for it.
We wanted to make a phone call.
Yeah.
And you said that the gentleman's phone did you have to pay them?
No, he led us do it for nothing.
Okay.
His name was Jack Brinston and I was living in Cannon Street in Stolpons.
And he was just across the road to us.
Right.
So we used to go to his phone and use it.
And it was far from true that everyone had a phone.
Okay.
Because they didn't.
Did they have phone, but public phone boxes?
Oh, there were lots of those.
Yes, because everybody needed to.
Actually, there's another question I don't quite understand.
What's the difference between a police box?
Which is like what Doctor Who's tired of this, and a general phone box?
Well, I think the difference says we weren't allowed to open them all.
You know, we had to go in a police box.
I'm police officer.
Yes.
But basically, it was the same deal that the police officer would go in there and find the
station whenever.
Yes, I think.
So we just went in a red phone box and you had to have the right coins to keep feeding
in.
And if you wanted to say more, you have to add more coins.
And you press button A and button B.
But Brinston, they were doing the land lines that people had in their own homes.
Yes, I think.
And so they don't be people who have to pay a phone bill once a month.
Yes, I think so.
We will pay by check.
I think so.
I think I could have that option.
Yes.
Yes.
It's possible that I could have paid it at the post office.
Oh, I can't.
Yes.
They can't.
They can't.
They'll be able to go to the post office.
Yes.
British telecoms, I believe, used to be part of the post office.
Right.
Okay.
Civil servants.
Yeah.
But then we left the civil service and were just British telecoms.
Yes.
Not private, but you were still a public sort of company, but you were just a separate company.
Apart from that.
Apart from this, like, centralized government.
Yes.
Of course, they have a telephone tower and they used to telecom tower in London, in
it.
Yes.
And you still see it today, basically.
Yeah.
And by all the other buildings now.
Yes.
The first building had all these big, like microwave transmitters.
Yes.
Stop on it.
Yeah.
Even back in the 1980s, I know.
Was it amazing?
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then they was it in the 90s.
They split up.
They had mercury.
Yes.
Came as a competitor to the British telecom.
Yes.
They had two different companies.
Yes.
And like the only thing that's left of mercury was the mercury set up.
Sponsored a music price.
Oh.
Yeah.
I don't know if they're still going, but certainly quite some time after mercury had disappeared.
Yes.
They're still there.
And obviously now you've got on team different phone companies and the company is also
providing to net.
Yes.
And it's probably TV as well.
Just the case.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So back in the 70s, you're working for British telecom.
Yes.
Do you remember anything else about your experiences there?
Well, I can remember using a telex machine and wondered if that had anything to do with
the computers.
Right.
It was probably a communication device that encoded the data.
Yes.
Just got it out of the other end.
Yes.
We were processing the data.
Yes.
It would come up.
You would play the dotted tape.
Yes.
And it would print something.
When you say, do I take, do I have holes in it?
Yes.
You would type message.
Yeah.
And it would make holes in the tape.
Yeah.
A little holes.
A little pin prick holes.
Yes.
Right.
Then you could send the tele.
All right.
So after you left British telecom, when was the next time that you encountered computers?
Well, the next time I went to work for a company called Logi UK Limited.
Yeah.
And it was metallurgical company for engineers.
And the only computer thing I did.
There was work.
The telex machine.
Okay.
You already good at that.
Yes.
I was quite good at that.
Do you have any interesting stories about telepsis?
Well, one day, I was supposed to send an urgent message on the Monday.
And that Monday, I was ill with a very bad cold.
So I rang into the office and I said, oh, I won't be able to do much today.
I got a very streaming cold.
And they said to me, don't worry about that.
We'll do it.
And it was malt urgent.
I said, well, it's urgent.
I really should come in and just send that.
Because I think I was the only person there that knew how to use telex.
Yeah.
Nobody else knew how to do it.
Because it had just been installed.
But unfortunately, this lady said to me, don't worry about coming in.
You'll get itself better.
And I wish you better.
Bye-bye.
Well, the next day when I came into work, I got told of for not sending it.
Because some people had arrived in Dubai.
And they didn't have anybody there to meet them.
And if I had sent out telex in the morning, they would have had it.
I think some camels also said to come and meet them.
But the person who was asked to send it was so frightened
that the telex machine, she refused to send it.
I wish they could have contacted me.
Because I didn't have a telephone.
I'd go to a public phone to ring.
Right.
So that was a bit sad, but it didn't really matter.
You, actually.
Did you keep your job?
I did keep it for a little while longer.
Yeah.
And it was a German company.
So I thought I'd better try and learn German.
So actually, the telex is a bit like a tight ray or something.
Yes.
And you had already learned like writing and pitman scripts and stuff.
Yes.
The labour exchanges they called it, then had sent me on a course.
Yeah.
And I learned to type and to do pitman scripts.
So can you go into detail a bit of detail about what touch typing was like in those days?
Yes.
Well, actually, where I learned the most was my grandfather left me a little bit of money.
Yeah.
And I decided to, in his will, I decided to spend it on going on the typing course.
And there was a place in Oxford Street.
And it was called Sight and Sound.
And then you went in every day, you know, every week day.
And you started at level one and you worked your way up.
And if you made enough mistakes, you had to do level one the game.
But anyway, it was a very brilliant way to learn because they had a keyboard on the wall.
And it lit up the letters and their position.
So that when you typed them, you didn't have to look down at the typewriter.
You just looked at the picture on the wall, we lit up the letters and they'd start off by saying,
you, I said, WS to eggs and the soul.
Yeah.
So you learned the quality of typing with both hands and without looking down.
So I managed to pass that.
So that enabled me to get other jobs in offices, you know, different offices.
So I remember I was once helping a client with someone who's visually impaired.
We've sent up some typing software that would teach you touch typing, kind of thing.
And basically it would speak the letter.
And she would then be typing the letter on the keyboard.
Yes.
And it would either say, you know, would have given in an audible indication of where it's correct or not.
Yes.
And you go through all these exercises and stuff.
Yes.
So there is, like, quite a history of, like, you can learn touch typing just by going for doing these exercises.
Like, as you remember, when I was maybe a teenager, you were dead for us.
Like, it's a little red device.
Yes.
It was like a key, electronic keyboard was just had a single row LED display.
Yeah.
So it LCD display.
And like it would go through all these exercises if you put your hands on the keyboard in the right places.
Yes.
So you send to them on certain keys with your index finger.
Yes.
And you would just, and it would teach you a different, right, a certain row would teach you a different row.
Yes.
What you had to, you know, just, it would come out the letters and you press them and you would probably get score afterwards.
Yeah.
Or tell you, maybe you just pass a file.
Good thing.
But to be honest, I never, I never really learned touch typing.
I was always, just because I was using computers so much, I just naturally became able to.
Yes.
Use my fingers to make the letters come out.
Yes.
And I never, I never really had to go through that stage of specifically learning how to type it.
Yes.
Just by doing it so much, I just naturally could.
Yes.
So actually, what, what's your favourite typewriter that you ever had?
So I remember when I was a kid, we had one.
We had an olivate, someone gave me and I kept up for a while.
Yeah.
They were quite noisy things to write it.
Whereas the computers, it's pretty silent.
Yeah.
So I was like, clap, clap, clap.
Yes.
If you went into what was called then a typing poll.
Yeah.
It was clap, clap, all the time.
Yeah.
And so typing poll is literally people sitting there doing that data entry.
Yes.
So someone's handwriting stuff.
Yes.
They have to type out.
Yes.
And it was terrible when men had to open any person had bad handwriting because she would
get the words wrong.
And I remember getting laughed out on this.
Because I wrote, I typed out.
There says, this is for your entertainment and files.
And it should have been your information and files.
And they all thought, and somebody said, out of the mouth of babes and sucklings.
They were quoted that from the Bible.
Right.
Because they knew I didn't know what I was doing.
Okay.
But I have to read type that.
Well, I don't know why it is.
But I've, maybe some bad being an engineer or whatever.
But I got in the habit of always writing blockapp tools.
Yes.
If I needed the person, someone to be able to read what I'd said.
Yes.
I would never, I would never kind of assume that I could just scroll.
And people would understand that.
Yes.
It's very kind of view.
It makes a huge difference.
Yeah.
All right.
So after you left the laggy.
Yes.
When did you next encounter at computers?
My next job.
I think was Project Office furniture.
Okay.
In Job Farm.
Yeah.
And I had to type things.
Oh, I forgot what you call them.
You know, when you've typed out.
Oh, for instance, it's in voice.
It's in voice.
If I had to type those.
Yeah.
So amazing amount of work.
We're just transcribing data from one format to the other.
That's correct.
You had an army of people doing that.
Yes.
And that's almost redundant.
Yes.
Because the computer can, within reason, can recognize any one format.
They can, they can convert picture to a,
Yes.
To, to, to text that can convert,
take, it can print out text.
It can form out.
And then you can, now even convert text to speech and understand speech.
Yeah.
To text, whereas in those days,
an entire industry was around,
conversing it from one,
converting written information or something.
Yeah.
From one format to another format.
Yes.
It was amazing.
The amount of work.
That took.
And again, there was large filing cabinets,
where you had to file all this paperwork.
Yeah.
And they had to be kept.
Right.
And obviously, obviously, when computers came,
I mean, even like 20 years ago.
Yes.
I was in an office that had filing cabinets.
Yes.
And that really had different files in those.
So it's not like it was even a recent, a long time ago.
But over the years, the databases have replaced that.
Yes.
Don't necessarily need to file them.
And the only reason why we kept the filing cabinets was
for confidential identity documents.
Yes.
And actually, even then, it came a point where the systems
were secure enough that you could store that.
And you could even store it in a cloud encrypted,
securely, even confidential information like that.
So then, at that point, the filing cabinets were just
purpose for putting letters in, because the main part of the company's job
was sorting letters and forwarding letters.
So the filing cabinets were repurposed just to 10,
pre-store for letters.
We had racks for that as well.
Yes.
I guess there were different types of letters,
maybe parcels or whatever, maybe still go in the filing cabinet.
Yes.
So it took a whole long time for filing cabinets to completely disappear.
Yes.
And I couldn't quite, you know, we've even got some up
in the office at home at your placement.
Yes.
Well, we've got your old Open University stuff.
Yes.
And we've got, I don't know, if we still have video cassettes,
I think we kind of, but we've got your old Open University books,
which was in the filing cabinets.
Yes.
And we've just got some old document, you know, just old archive documents,
and then we leave our files and stuff.
Yes.
But in principle, that's all been replaced by databases.
Yes.
So filing was a major bit of work, wasn't it?
Yes.
You'd get filing class who got specifically paid to do the filing.
Yeah.
Yes.
That's actually a career.
Yes.
Yes.
And right now, you know, when I was at school,
we learned algorithms for sorting and searching.
Yes.
We learned different ways of sorting information.
Yes.
And different ways of searching through information, using different,
you know, computer programs in effect.
Yes.
But it's a bit more abstract than a specific computer program.
It's the algorithm, which is like, when you're going to write the program,
you translate the algorithm, which is kind of a human level
understanding of what it's doing to the actual computer code.
Yes.
And that's basically telling it how to search for a long list of items
or sort them in our medical order, that kind of thing.
Yes.
And you've got built into databases.
I mean, the earliest databases were in the earliest, as we recognise,
and we're 60s and 70s.
But, you know, now databases have come a lot more complex.
I can handle much more data.
Yes.
At the same time, they've become a lot, you now get small,
very small database systems, as one called SQLite,
which can do the most powerful thing that the big databases did now days.
Yes.
You can just do that using very little, you know, just on a very small scale.
So it's like you've got database, everyone in their pocket
can have the most powerful databases that they had in those days.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And actually even databases have moved on so that they're not just,
Yes.
Rose and columns, they can more handle more unstructured data,
partially structured data.
Yes.
Such that every row might not have the same data.
No.
I don't know what will be good example, but like,
you some customers might have their address.
Yes.
And it would store that.
If they had an address, that would be included in the record.
But if they didn't have an address, that wouldn't be included in the record.
It would just have their name or the telephone number or anything.
Yes.
And the relational databases are a bit unforgiving about that.
They like want to have that column and that row.
So that every single row has all that information.
Yes.
Whereas the more unstructured databases they have now are a bit more flexible.
Yes.
And you even get databases as well where you don't even have rows and columns.
You just have discrete pieces of information and just link to each other.
And it all goes through how they're differently linked to each other.
Yes.
So that there might have a person object and that's linked to an address object.
Yes.
And the address object might be linked to the town object.
Yes.
Rather than object or note, however you want to call it, rather than having a rows and columns
of each row has an address with the first line of the address, the second line of the address,
the town, the county, the post-code country with like a graph.
They call it a graph databases.
One that uses links and notes.
It just links.
The information it has.
It doesn't need to include the information it doesn't have.
No.
They're quite flexible in that you don't have to now up front.
What information you've got.
Whereas when you're designing the rows and the columns, you have to know to begin with.
What information you've got.
Whereas when it's just arbitrarily linked.
If you have the information you link it, if you don't have the information you don't link it,
it's still there.
You can still reach it, still search for it and access it and add stuff to it as needed.
That's just the way that things have moved on from in that sort of technology.
And it all goes back to filing cabinets.
Yes.
Yes.
So I mean actually what the story you're telling is a bit about.
That whole history of data processing really is just as you've experienced it through.
Yes.
For a stop that you've had.
Yes.
We must be coming up to the end of the semis to the 80s now.
Yes.
Did you ever do arcade games?
I think I might have.
Yes.
You mean now at the sea side?
Yeah.
I mean obviously they had amusement at the arcade.
But when did you ever see like Patman or things like that?
Space invaders?
The game of tennis that you play on the computer screen.
That was the first one.
Right.
So that was actually in your home.
Yes.
I remember that.
That had a game of pong.
Yes.
And he actually built it himself.
Why did electronics together?
Yes.
He sold it together and created a game of pong.
Yes.
Did it himself?
Yeah.
But you didn't ever go to a seaside and play it.
Have a game of space invaders or?
No.
Not that I can remember.
No.
Or did you see it on telly?
I might have seen it on telly.
Was it ever interest you or you thought that was like pointless?
Well I just didn't fully understand it.
Right.
You just saw people like stand up at this machine.
Yeah.
Pressing buttons.
Yes.
I still don't see them doing that.
Yeah.
Never something you've been interested in.
Well I try.
Yeah.
I have a goal of them now.
And of course those were the four runners of the game consoles.
Oh.
Yeah.
And as you said like that had the game of pong.
Yes.
I remember I didn't enjoy one game where you had to work your way through a house.
And you had to enjoy doing that.
I think it was you that you showed.
Right.
This was a line in the dark.
So this was the 3D game.
So this was the 3D game.
So this was light.
Yes.
And we were playing this game together where.
Yes.
You kept.
You know the ghosts will come and catch you and eat you.
Yes.
That's it.
But if you had to.
But you saved your position so you didn't go back to where you were.
Yes.
And tried to work out.
Try and work your way through the house.
Yes.
I'll cover.
Discover things.
It's quite addictive here.
Yeah.
I wanted to go back to it.
Yeah.
And I think we got quite away for it.
But then at some point we got stuck and then at that point we.
We gave up.
Well, we said we didn't we found.
We found like a guide that would guide you through.
Oh yeah.
We came through the rest of the game.
Yes.
So I think we might.
I can't remember.
I think we might have actually finished the game.
But we did it.
Yeah.
We did it by following a.
Like a cheat guy.
Yes.
Yes.
So did you remember that I get the dad got me different computers.
I remember when you were seven years old.
He said to me.
He wanted to get you in the Atari.
And I said yes.
That's a good idea.
Yeah.
He said because that's the way the world is going now.
Yeah.
The computers.
And I think he was right.
Yeah.
And he bought you your first computer.
When you was seven.
It was called Atari.
Yeah.
When did you first actually.
Start using the computer yourself.
Oh, not for a while.
Yeah.
Was it.
I mean, when you were studying for the Open University.
Did you you were writing your essays on the word processor?
Yes.
Yes.
So was it word that you had to learn?
Yes.
How did you learn how to use word and things like that?
I don't know.
Probably you showed me.
Well, I know.
But you didn't you go to classes?
Oh, yes.
I did.
A very nice man called Tim.
He used to show us various things you could do.
He used to write it down and try and do it.
And one of the things he used to get us to press control something.
Yeah.
And because he had one of his first pupils with a man with only one hand.
Yeah.
And couldn't do everything.
Yeah.
So he had to show him how to do it with one hand.
Yeah.
Press control.
And then press something else.
Yeah.
And that was it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because Windows has something called sticky keys.
Because it allows for that is then I probably have a operating systems too.
But if you like tap the same key at a certain number of times.
Yes.
It will like say, do you want to have sticky keys?
Yes.
And then you can then you don't have to hold down two keys at one.
Yes.
You just press the one key.
Yeah.
And then the next key.
And it combines them and performs the action.
Yeah.
When accessibility is quite good.
Yeah.
You know, say what you like about the different operating systems and their pros and cons.
Yeah.
But I think it's good that it was embraced from quite early on.
Yes.
For system.
And it probably was even a bit more embraced in the past than it had.
Although there's been advances in technology which has made software in general
more in general more accessible.
Yes.
And even the fact that stuff is now designed for mobile phones means that the way things
are designed and implemented it is it's like almost encourages things to be accessible.
Yes.
But then you have unfortunately because you can do something in any number of ways.
Yes.
People will find non-standard ways of doing things which may be make it look nice or or make it
more functional or whatever.
Unfortunately, those were often break to break the accessibility features that were inherent
in the system.
Yes.
And so you then have to go back and you have to reintroduce the accessibility objects.
Yes.
Okay.
So you're doing classes.
Yes.
And did you found that you got better at it?
Yes.
I think I did.
I think I did get better.
I mean, did the fact that you'd use typewriter's and telexes.
Yes.
And before that helped you.
Oh yes.
The fact that I used typewriter's did help me.
And I think it still helped me.
Yeah.
Today.
Yeah.
No.
I'm diary.
Yeah.
So actually, let's come up to date now.
So how what is your use of computers like nowadays?
I like to go on and do a game of scrapbook.
Yeah.
Against me sometimes.
Yes.
You.
I'm going to.
Yeah.
Sometimes.
Well, she's known on this podcast for self-worth.
Yes.
You do a computer game.
You do you have a puzzle isn't it?
You do each day.
I do.
Jigsaw puzzle.
Yeah.
Jigsaw puzzle.
Yes.
So people.
Those are the photos that that.
Yes.
Often, often your daughters have sent you.
Yes.
Or you and you and dad have taken or something like that.
Yes.
And your and dad will turn them into a jigsaw puzzle.
Yes.
Can they do this as a jigsaw?
Yeah.
So this is every.
This is like 10 o'clock at night.
Yes.
Dad's finally.
Dad's on the computer all day.
Yeah.
10 o'clock.
He'll just go.
He'll go and sit in front of the telly of it.
Yeah.
And I think things of it.
He'll watch things about mechanics.
Yeah.
And mechanics.
And gold mining and diamond mining.
And gold mining.
Yeah.
And things about.
Veterinary.
Yeah.
And things about.
Veterinary.
Yeah.
And was it off of the greatest in it.
Yes.
And in grand design.
So people building their own houses.
Yes.
People going out to the wilderness.
Yes.
Building their own.
Because that's an engineer.
Yes.
So this is what a profession.
Yes.
I've been trusted.
Yeah.
And these things.
So while he's doing that.
Yes.
You get your few hours on the computer to turn a clock and midnight.
Yes.
That's not two hours.
Yeah.
So do you get emails.
Yeah.
So do.
Yeah.
I probably like to send one or two sometimes.
Yeah.
I haven't done yet.
Yeah.
That usually does them for me.
Yeah.
So the main thing you're telling me.
You do your diary.
Isn't it?
Yeah.
It's not just right.
A little diary.
So what program do you use for that?
I'm not quite sure.
So most of words, isn't it?
Yeah.
That's right.
And then you go on YouTube.
Yes.
I love to go on that.
Because I love to see all the different interesting stories that people tell.
And last night I was watching one about during the war.
How a man saved a family by locking them up with his elephant in the carriage.
Everywhere was searched.
But he was a train driver.
And he also.
You know, every train driver has a pet elephant.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was part of a circus.
Right.
A traveling circus.
Yeah.
So he was able to save this family by hiding them at the back of the elephant room.
Yeah.
And there's still survived.
I mean, I say elephants afraid of mice but apparently Nazis are afraid of elephants.
Yeah.
Oh, well.
It's interesting because you can find different stories from different eras.
Sometimes going back to the Victorian age.
Yeah.
So actually, you've gone and traced some of the places where you used to live.
Yeah.
People used to know like the school that you go to.
Yes.
Like 50, 60 odd years ago.
Yes.
And that was it.
You were working in a conference once.
Yes.
They're not many of them left.
No, no.
Imagine.
And what if you think of Google.
Was it Google Street View?
We can actually go to that you can actually see the places where you used to live.
Oh, you still love looking at those.
Yeah.
You still love that.
Yeah.
We're actually having to go back there.
Yes.
Which is a bit, I mean, a bit hard for you in this place.
Yes.
So other YouTube.
I know you watched YouTube videos.
People playing piano.
Yeah.
It sounds like anything music.
Yeah.
I liked it here.
Yeah.
Different music.
One of my favorite things is, oh, whatever they call it, flash mob.
Yeah.
Where you can go to a railway station or an airport.
One person will start playing along their own in the middle of the airport.
Yeah.
And then somebody will come and join them.
Oh, the whole little district gets there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There reminds me a bit of that.
There used to be a TV series in the 1980s called That's Life.
Yeah.
They'd have something like statue.
Yeah.
A guy that was a statue was really a person.
And suddenly the statue would start moving.
And then start singing.
Yeah.
Then other things would start singing.
Yeah.
The bit of a surprise.
Yeah.
Everybody gets their phones out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When there was the pandemic, you would be watching some broadcasters on YouTube who would
talk about health issues.
Yes.
I don't talk to John Campbell.
He used to make a feel secure.
Just listening to him.
Yeah.
I mean, I think you've got a bit of a crush on him because you would be throwing a picture
of him every single day.
Yeah.
And he was always so welcoming.
A warm welcome to you.
And he would talk about different things.
Yeah.
They would somehow give you confidence.
Yeah.
To know what to do.
Yeah.
I wonder if there's any other that you generally watch.
And you also decluttering the stuff, isn't it?
Oh, yes.
I came upon Marie Kondo, Japanese lady who, you know, taught you how to pack a suit case.
You have to clear out your hand bag and the all kinds of ways.
Have you found computers that you'd be creative in any other ways, like,
artistically or anything like that?
No, you do a lot of art on painting and stuff.
Yeah.
But has that ever come across into computers or not?
Um, I'm not sure that I do like looking up other artists.
Right, okay.
On there.
And there's a new right that when you were doing the art lessons, we were not the ones
that the ones before that, they were told to research a certain subject.
Yeah.
You would get dad to find the pictures that you wanted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they were very helpful.
Yeah.
And my old art teacher called Ian.
He left the program and I'm still got it on the computer.
How to make different colors.
Yeah.
I was in his class, I never listened to him.
Yeah.
I used to do things my way.
Yeah.
But now I was can see the use of, um, knowing how to make the color.
Right.
So I often do well shit now.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's nice that it's lasted all this time.
Yeah.
No, I get going from looking at it.
And nice to see him there because he's lectured.
Yeah.
It doesn't teach.
Yeah.
Don't think it teaches there.
How about my buffines?
What's your experience with my buffines?
Well, I almost feel left out.
Not really having a proper one.
Yeah.
Because although the one I've got is useful for what I needed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It doesn't have like the touch screen or the other.
No.
No.
And everybody else is a member of WhatsApp.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I do feel like I'm a bit left out and not in it.
Because I think that's might have WhatsApp installed.
But it's probably linked to his phone.
Yeah.
Not to your one.
Yeah.
So you can't easily have your own WhatsApp.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do like having the phone to carry round with me.
Even though I keep it switched off both of the time it's there.
It keeps you in touch.
I mean, it's important for you if you're helpful.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's the time.
If I haven't needed help, I could ring.
Yeah.
I know you've got, you've only got so many speed dials.
So you've got dad and then you've got Allison.
Then you've got Jackie.
Jackie.
But you haven't got me.
I'm, I'm in the options.
But you have me as a, as one of the speed dials.
Yeah.
Sometimes it could be useful.
Like if you're downstairs in the entry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then I can.
You can see.
Get.
Get fruit.
Sometimes I think you have to ring dad and then that rings me.
Yes.
That's right.
It does.
How about a smart speakers?
I won't say her name because that might trigger the people listening.
Like trigger their smart speakers to.
Well, too.
What?
You can say, well, say it and I'll edit it out.
Oh, yes.
Because if I feel lonely and I'm on the talk to someone.
I'll just say, what's the better?
Yeah.
And she'll say, and I don't feel quite lonely.
Yeah.
Okay.
I quite enjoy hearing it in the car.
Yeah.
And we're driving somewhere.
Yeah.
I like that voice that comes and says.
Now turn left or turn right or whatever it says.
I was enjoying that.
Yeah.
We don't take any notice of it.
I know.
That knows where he's going.
Yeah.
And that doesn't listen to the.
Yeah.
No, not very often he doesn't.
Yeah.
But he doesn't need it for like if he's going along way.
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
He needs to know that he knows that the journey there most of it.
Yeah.
But just the last few turnings.
Yeah.
I almost aren't tuning.
Yeah.
There's not few turnings.
Yes.
It's voice.
Most of the journey is just ignoring it.
Yes.
Mostly.
Yeah.
Because I was in Holland with Ken.
Yes.
Ken's using one called Open.
Yes.
And apparently that's become very good in its life.
Completely free version of.
Of a lamp and a.
And a satnav as well.
Yeah.
That's good.
All right.
Have you got any last things to say about?
Well, I was just thinking that Holland and Venice are a bit similar because they've got a lot of canal.
Yeah.
Is that kind of thing to do with computers?
Well, they instead of having roads.
They have to follow a waterway.
All right.
You think the satnav.
The satnav would help.
They could help.
The satnav would help.
I don't think they have that number of junctions.
Oh.
To be honest.
No.
That you would need.
Yeah.
For.
Steering.
Is there anything about computers or technology or anything in general that.
You can think of that we haven't talked about.
But you think might be relevant.
Well, I think being as old as I am.
Which is quite old.
I think I've been lucky enough to see the whole of history.
Change.
Yeah.
Through them.
Because I do know they had computers in the ancient Egyptians had a form of a computer.
Right.
I had algorithms.
Yes.
There is means of what you could call a computer.
Yeah.
And I think it's been a wonderful thing.
For children's education.
Because I think if they don't know about the subject.
They only have to tap it in.
And they can get that information and it's fairly accurate.
Yeah.
I would say.
Yeah.
So I think it helps to advance children's education and learning.
And not at all.
So they enjoyed playing their games.
I'm not sure if social media has anything to do with computers.
Well, it requires computers to work.
I suppose there are other forms of social media about computers.
Yeah.
For what we're talking about when we refer to social media nowadays.
It does require computers.
Yes.
I suppose there are good aspects of that.
And there are some sounds.
Yeah.
I mean, Australia, they've just banned it for 16 years.
We don't have to see how that works out.
But it's hope it helps the kids.
I mean, you said you were just saying earlier today.
How?
Like your two grandchildren.
Yes.
From different.
Different houses.
Different houses.
Different daughters.
And then both.
It all went.
I feel when they.
Oh, no.
One was ill.
And the other one was the school shutdown.
Yeah.
They were just sitting there having a conversation.
They were playing games together.
And they could see each other on video.
Yes.
I didn't catch each other's codes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They were amusing each other for hours.
Yeah.
Oh, miss game.
What was the game again?
No, I didn't.
Okay.
But you said they were building houses.
Yes.
Building houses.
They reminded me of you.
And that was both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's sort of virtual reality.
Yeah.
And somebody's been coming up.
Okay.
Yes.
Oh, enjoy this conversation.
All right.
All right.
Sure, wrap up there.
Thank you very much, Angela.
Very welcome.
I'd like to say thank you.
Yeah.
I'd like to say thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Very welcome.
I'd like to say thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
it here, it's not that difficult. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye.
You have been listening to Hacker Public Radio at Hacker Public Radio.org.
Today's show was contributed by a HPR listener like yourself.
If you ever thought of recording podcast, click on our upload link
to find out how easy it is.
Hosting for HPR has been kindly provided by an AnHonestHost.com, the Internet Archive,
rsync.net, and our mirror network.
Unless otherwise stated, today's show is released under a Creative Commons
Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0) license.